Guest Commentary – The Rise of Extremism

guest-commentaryTonight’s guest commentary is a little bit different than the guest commentaries of the past. Tonight I offer one written by someone who is not a regular reader at this site. I admittedly have some from you folks that have submitted them. I began working on them in earnest this week in an effort to have one ready. However, Mrs. Weapon has kept me busy. I first received an email from this author several months ago. He offered his writing as thinking material for me and I remember that it had an immediate impact. It was well written, informative, and caused the reader to perform some introspection. He has written many different articles or “open letters” in the past, and I intend to offer some of his other work in the near future. I offer tonight’s article because I felt that it was a very relevant piece considering some of the discussions that we have been having lately. I hope that you will enjoy what he has to say….

Tonight’s guest author is Warren “Bones” Bonesteel. Warren is a published author, an e-zine-columnist ‘on sabbatical,’ and has written articles for newspapers and magazines. After his Marine Corps career, he spent two years as a construction worker. He later started, operated and sold a successful formal gardening business. He and his wife of seventeen years currently reside in the Black Hills of South Dakota. Warren sent me this piece in an email in June. After corresponding, he provided me with several other extremely interesting articles. I am impressed with the level of research and thought that go into his articles. He doesn’t come to his conclusions easily. They are the result of much work. I hope that you will enjoy this first offering. I have contacted Warren to let him know that the article is running this evening. I am sure that should he find time, he will pop in and join the conversation.

The Rise of Extremism
by Warren “Bones” Bonesteel

The true wonder is…

The rhetorical and political attacks on right-wing ‘extremists’ by left-wing ‘extremist’ politicians, activists, media outlets and bloggers are creating the environments for the very things they fear. The same is true with the right’s rhetorical and political attacks on the left. If both sides don’t stop and take a deep breath and think about the consequences of their own words and deeds and examine the premises of their own ideology, open violence and civil war are inevitable.

The Tiller murder and the demonization of more than a hundred million Americans because of it? The eco-terrorist’s destruction of the environment and private property in the name of protecting the environment? (FBI ten most wanted list.) The RNC Welcoming Committee? ReCreate 68? The stalking and ‘mobbing’ of ideological opponents by right-wing and left-wing ‘extremists’? The violent and deadly Muslim attacks on innocent Americans? The miltarization of civilian police departments, with thousands of SWAT teams, ‘accidentally’ killing more than three hundred innocent Americans in their own homes, each and every year? All of that – and more – is only the beginning of the violence that we will see and experience for ourselves.

An extreme pov? No. It is historically inevitable. America is not immune from history. The world is not a nice, quiet, middle-class suburb or a gated community. Violence is always the result when opposing ideologies indulge in such rhetorical and political attacks upon one another as are seen in today’s American political and social landscape. Historically, when the government begins to exert control over the private lives of its citizens? When the civilian police forces become militarized? Historically, when opposition parties begin to actively and openly dehumanize and demonize their ideological opponents, as is now occurring in America? Such things are always a prelude to violence and to civil war.

The wonder isn’t that America will experience another civil war or possibly break up into individual nation-states. The true wonder, historically, is that America has held together as long as it has. Both of the major political ideologies in America will bear full and complete responsibility for the death and destruction that is now almost inevitable. The poor and inept leadership by members of the political, social and intellectual leadership in America has led us all to this point in history.

Ideology: Eyes to the left or eyes to the right.

You complain about the economy and about big government spending… but you vigorously defend your own debt and credit-driven lifestyles. You quite correctly accuse your ideological opponents of corruption, but violently defend your own. You complain when another ideology legislates a law that restricts your own freedom, but you vigorously pursue laws which restrict the freedoms of others. Thus, you now live in a society where anything not approved by the government is a crime – and there is very little that the government approves. Then, you wonder why America has the highest incarceration rate of any nation on earth. Are Americans so evil that we must lock them all up? Or have we imprisoned nearly two million people just because you don’t approve of them? The majority of American ‘criminals’ who are imprisoned have performed no violent crime nor have they committed fraud or interfered in the freedoms of others.

You think you are free…you’ve been told that you are free. …but you cannot make a move without some form of government approval; paying a tax or a fee or getting a license or a permit. Every move you make is regulated by the government. The very air you breath is now being taxed.

But, in the midst of your Keynesian-consumerist driven and government-controlled lifestyles, you think that you are free…and you think that you are just…and you think that you are patriotic, freedom-loving fools…and you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is an unpatriotic ‘extremist.’

Whose ‘eye’ is to blame?

As Americans have continued to elect and re-elect such inept and corrupt leaders as we now have in Washington and in state legislatures around the nation, we each bear responsibility for the inevitable result of such leadership. If we wish to place the blame for the current state of affairs on anyone, we need only look in the mirror and reflect upon the eyes that we see.

Disclosure: Although I registered as a Republican for a local election in 2004, I am actually a rare breed these days. I’m a ‘Jeffersonian Democrat.’ A true Classical Liberal. Of course, from the pov of our government, that makes me an enemy of the state. From the pov of the political right, I’m a left-wing liberal. From the pov of the left, I’m a right-wing extremist. The Cassandra Effect does apply, here. You see, your own hubris and ideologies have blinded you. Most of you believe, in complete denial of all of the facts and against all of the evidence of mankind’s recorded history, that ‘this sort of thing just can’t happen in America.’

I’ve got news for you.

That paradigm is about to crash and burn around your ears.

(NOTE: The enclosed links and attachments provide the ‘bibliography’ and ‘footnotes’ for this commentary and include peer-reviewed authors and materials as well as government websites and resources. Approximately 30 pages of references with 90 pages in total.)

Warren “Bones” Bonesteel
Author and Researcher
Sgt USMC 1976-1983

References provided by Warren:
=====

http://tinyurl.com/lnr57v
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204482304574219813708759806.html
Divided We Stand
June 13, 2009
By Paul Starobin

=====

http://tinyurl.com/lx2vry
http://www.economicroadmap.com/2009/06/secession-talk-goes-mainstream.html
Secession Talk Going Mainstream?
June 13, 2009
By Michael J. Panzner
“When Giants Fall: An Economic Roadmap for the End of the American Era”

====
The true wonder is…
http://www.ladieslogic.com/2009/06/true-wonder-is.html

=====
‘Economic Depression and Systemic Collapse in America’
http://tinyurl.com/cmzt92
http://news.kontentkonsult.com/2009/02/readers-resources-on-systemic-collapse
.html

http://www.endoftheamericancentury.blogspot.com/
http://tinyurl.com/9we7v5

Open Letter to American Politicians: On “Right-Wing Extremists”
http://tinyurl.com/dcjmhk
http://swampbubbles.com/20090430/open-letter-american-politicians-right-wing-
extremists
http://tinyurl.com/d93gm8
http://truth11.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/open-letter-to-american-politicians-a
ct-now-for-freedom-and-liberty/

http://www.squidoo.com/coming-to-America

‘Beyond Conspiracy: Police State America’
http://tinyurl.com/cdv9pt
http://truth11.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/beyond-conspiracy-police-state-americ
a-s-warren-bones-bonesteel-author-and-researcher/

‘We Are All Enemies of the State.’
http://tinyurl.com/cukp9f
http://coyoteprime-runningcauseicantfly.blogspot.com/2009/05/enemies-of-state
-yes-you.html

On Proper Government in a Republic.
http://www.covenantnews.com/bonesteel090515.htm

see also: Playlist under “Police State America.”
http://www.youtube.com/user/wrb1957

The Next American Revolution.
http://baldwinchuck.blogspot.com/2009/06/revolution.html

http://tinyurl.com/lk3vyw
http://plaintruthmagazine.blogspot.com/2009/06/next-american-revolution.html

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Comments

  1. Interesting post, Bones.

    Most of what you have written here reflects a lot of my own conclusions.

    However, I am curious about one thing. Other than tell people to wake up and take responsibility for their own actions – what are your recommendations on how to fix this mess?

    Oh, and one little thing you probably already know about – Black Flag will most likely write his usual book on what you have written.

  2. Excellant article, if this does not make everyone stop and think about what is happening in this country nothing will.

  3. If you won’t listen to me, G.A. Rowe maybe you’ll listen to “Bones”.

    Welcome to our hearty band!

  4. bottom line says:

    Nice post Mr. Bones. Red pills for everyone!

  5. This is within the realm of possibility. But so is a socialist America.

    As G.A. Rowe said above. What can be done?

    Would a true secessionist movement push the powers in Washington to have a change of heart? I do not believe so, you will probably just see more people thrown in jail for “Anti-American sentiment”. Just like in WW1 and WW2.

  6. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Good Morning all,

    Article from FOX: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/18/obama-race-overriding-issue/

    The President is saying that all of the vitriol that has been displayed over health care reform is not due to “race”; that it is due to the ‘amount’ of the role that government should have.

    I am happy to see this article and see him address it.

    Best Regards to all,
    RS

  7. Hi Ya’ll,

    Interesting article Bones, I hope you can give some more insight as the weekend goes on.

    I don’t recall dissent being to this level before. We’ve had war protests, and other types of dissent, but IMHO, not to the level as is occurring now. Extremism, unfortunaltelt, breeds the same, on the other end of the spectrum. Right v. wrong! Except noone thinks they are wrong, which supports the articles idea of a future civil war.

    Am I an extremist? Investment = food and ammo, preparation = food and ammo and clean weapons and a exit strategy to a safe place thats defendable with unlimited food sources. Check and check!

    Extremist, if I am that’s OK. I’m not alone!

    PEACE!

    G!

  8. Hi all It seems like just a couple days ago i was talking about canning food and storing ammo. Im glad im not the only one who can see whats happening to this great country And its happening faster then we think. and im not alone.

    whitehorn

  9. Warren Bonesteel says:

    Hmmm. Some interesting questions from thoughtful people. You can’t ask any more than that.

    Generally, I provide information and then allow others to make their own decisions for their own lives. They can read the information, ignore it, or just print it out and use for their latest engineering project. It’s entirely their decision.

    As for stopping any of this? My own research indicates that it is much too late for that. History grinds all before it. The best we can do is to educate ourselves and our families and friends, examine our own assumptions and preconceptions, and prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. Yes, it’s a cliche, but some cliches have merit and offer real world applications.

    How bad will it get? Well, personally, I think that Panarin, Faber and Celente are starry-eyed optimists.

    Don’t forget to check the links and all of the references in the article, too. They offer some insight into what may happen next. Although detailed ‘predictions’ of events and timing is difficult to ascertain, the trends become obvious.

  10. Warren Bonesteel says:

    Oh. One more thing: The research tells me that in the short -term, say, between now and about four years from now, things get pretty interesting. as in, lots of running, screaming and dying. The best case short-term outcome is a national and global ‘velvet’ revolution against the “PTB.”

    Long-term, five to ten years out, we’re looking at the early stages of a global renaissance the likes of which has only been described by dreamers and fools. It’s just a simple matter of personally surviving until then, is all.

    Winners and losers: The freedom-lovin’ fools eventually win.

    Recommended short-term positive inputs’ into the present paradigm: Focus locally. Replace and/or contact and register protests with city and town councils, mayors, county commissioners and sheriffs, state legislators, governors, etc., with the focus on freedom and liberty and adherence to the state and US constitutions. Raise the level of debate, stick to the facts and remain as logical and reasonable as possible.

    • Warren B:

      Excellant article and I look forward to others. I most certainly hope you can drop in and contribute from time to time.

      I disagree with your premise that we are destined to suffer the same fortunes as others in history. My disagreement is from a general, more philosophical, basis and not on the particulars of your article. It is not inevitable just because it has always happened before. Just as Mr. Flags assertion that govt can not be constructed that protects freedom, just because we haven’t discovered how in the past ten thousand years. Those things not yet discovered can not be condemned to non-existence just because they have not been discovered.

      With that said, a true shift from what appears our destiny requires a sea change in human understanding and behavior. Evolution if you will, in our understanding of the philosophic and economic theories that created a history of failed societies. In this regard you, and others on this site, may be correct. The magnitude of enlightenment required may be just to great given the apparent time we have left.

      In my view, whether this results in civil war in this country largely depends on how much of what has become the “American” value system is destroyed. Right now it is no where near enough. Americans, when challenged fall back on those values we have in common. One of those is the sense of “National unity”. My fear is that our sense of “preserving the union” may actually play into the hands of those who wish to destroy the last remnants of the unique American experiment.

      I would like to address one other comment you made regarding the coming “global renaissance”. Black Flag and Kent, and now you have made referance to such a thing. I recognize the tidal wave of technological changes coming our way in the next few decades. Some of this may contribute to such a renaissance. However, given the history of humanity I do not understand your belief that the culimination of current events will be a paradigm shift in support of freedom loving people. Historically such turmoil has been used by tyrants to grasp the reins of power. I do not understand how such a major change can occur without a similar sea change, or enlightenment, in our philosophical base. I do not see freedom simply springing up from the ashes, like the phoenix. I would appreciate it if you folks who believe this will kindly explain how it could develop from the chaos that potentially lies ahead.

      I echo the comments of my dear pirate friend, Flag.
      Welcome to our merry little band.

      Best Wishes to you and your family.
      May your weekend be filled with peace and joy.
      JAC

    • You have all missed the real event going on. This is a battle between God and the devil. We can overcome the devil’s trying to take away humanity and His church by praying more and having faith that God will keep us under His wing – and only IF we have faith and do His WILL

      Take a look at your life – is it within ALL the commandments? Ask God to show you what you are doing wrong. HE WILL accept it.

      And then you don’t need lengthy prayers telling God what is wrong and how to fix it. Just ask Him to fix it. Say
      PLEASE GOD HELP US many times a day.

      A look beyond the turmoil

  11. Thank you for your article, Bones. Your thoughts are much inline with a regular contributor to this site that we’ve all come to love and hate – often at the same time!! (To clarify, not him personally, just what he tries to drill into us)

    I did not have time to check out the links, but will later this weekend.

    I am off to a tea party on the lakefront in Milwaukee today. Have a great weekend everyone!

  12. Reading the comments so far:

    There is always a desire for people to know what is going to exist after what we know no longer exists.

    It’s human nature.

    Humans do not do well with uncertainty – which is a benefit and a defect of human character.

    No more than I can, nor Kent – “Bones” will -at best- surmise one unlikely ‘post-nation-state’ scenario. I am confident that he would agree that even his scenario is very unlikely.

    The odds that any of us can tell you accurately about what does not exist will be nearly zero.

    I can tell you any scenario produced by us would be very, very, very likely wrong when compared to “what will be”.

    No more than then within the Dark Ages, there was some sage that said to the People:

    “Hey, guys! When this ‘what-we-are-living-in’ (remembering They Didn’t Know They Were In the Dark Ages) is over – our society is going to be something that I have no name for (since it hasn’t happened yet – ‘the Renaissance’) that will be better in ways I can’t tell you because those things that they will have haven’t even been thought of yet – but trust me, they’ll be cool and they will have a great time doing things and thinking of new things but I don’t know what, since it hasn’t happened yet!”

    So, do that experiment – be a Dark Ages soul and try to think – from that point of view – what the Renaissance would be….. you can’t do it.

    So, the constant demand of ‘what will it be like’ is, really, futile and moot.

    All I truthfully and accurately say is ….

    Not like it is right now, but probably better – but maybe worse too.

  13. Bones,

    Welcome and thank you for a thought provoking article. As I see it, its not likely the USA will fall. A Republican rebound in 2010 will stave that off for a while longer. Will we ever break out of these back and forth swings? Not unless we eliminate our two party system.

    I looked for a source for this statement:”with thousands of SWAT teams, ‘accidentally’ killing more than three hundred innocent Americans in their own homes, each and every year?”, and could not find one. I am aware of around 100
    people being killed by police abuse of NO Knock warrants, but have not read about mistaken SWAT killings.

    • In April, 1997, OPP tactical officer Sgt. Kenneth Deane was found guilty of criminal negligence causing death. Deane had shot and killed an unarmed native, Dudley George, during a 1995 protest at Ipperwash Provincial Park. Deane, who fired seven shots, claimed George had a gun. But the judge determined that wasn’t the case, and that officers had lied about the events.

      • On February 19, 1996, an OPP tactical team used a bartering ram to smash down the front door of a house near Hamilton. They were looking for marijuana growers and guns. They found fifty-seven-year-old John Goddard his wife, Jean, forced them at gunpoint to lie on the floor, and slapped them in handcuffs as the house was searched. Nothing was found. It turned out that an informant had given police the wrong information.

      • On February 17, 1996, an OPP tactical team launched a predawn raid on a house near Orangeville. Officers, looking for a murder suspect, smashed in the front and back doors and hauled a couple out of bed at gunpoint. The homeowner’s seventy-year-old father was also dragged from his bed and handcuffed. The couple had absolutely no connection to the real suspect, who was captured later that day in Miami.

      • A Surrey, B.C., couple were asleep in their bed when heavily armed masked men burst into their house in January; 1996. The couple thought they were the victims of a home invasion but the intruders were members of an RCMP tactical team. Looking for cocaine and guns, they also kicked in the door to a bedroom where the woman’s ninety-three-year-old mother was sleeping. The suspected drug dealers the police thought lived there had moved out six months earlier.

      • During the 1995 standoff between police and native protesters at Gustafsen Lake, B.C., an RCMP tactical-team sniper was given permission to shoot to kill [assassinate] an Indian demonstrator. Although the man was carrying a gun, he was in an agreed-upon safe area. He was simply getting some water from a nearby lake. The sniper fired three bullets. Fortunately, he missed.

      • In September, 1995, a SWAT team without a warrant kicked down the door of a Montreal apartment. Searching for drugs, police instead found a terrified woman and her baby.

      • Two members of a Quebec Provincial Police tactical unit were charged with uttering threats, forcible confinement, torture, and assault in February; 1992, after police armed with machine-guns burst into the house of a man and his son.

      • Also in February, 1992, members of Vancouver’s tactical ream were caught on videotape beating a man they had dragged out of an apartment house. The unit had gone to the wrong address during a drug raid. The man they hauled from the dwelling was a newly arrived Chinese immigrant who couldn’t speak English.

      • After laying siege to a motel during the search for a murder suspect in December, 1991, Calgary’s SWAT ream took into custody a Newfoundland man and his friends. The man was reportedly grabbed by the hair, thrown on the ground, and kicked several times. A newspaper photo showed two terrified children, who belonged to one of his friends, being grabbed by SWAT members armed with sub-machine-guns. One of the children, thinking the men were kidnappers, grabbed onto a handrail and had to be pried off Again, it was a case of mistaken identity; The man was a house painter who had just arrived in Calgary to look for work.

      • On July 3,1991, a Montreal SWAT officer shot a twenty-four-year-old man, Marcellus Francois, through the head with an M-16 assault rifle, killing him. The police had mistaken him for a suspect in an attempted murder.

      • On October 7, 1984, a member of the London OPP tactical team accidentally killed a fellow officer during a night-time confrontation with a gunman.

      Despite all this, there is no official country-wide tally of how many times tactical squads have wounded or killed people. Nor, for that matter, is there any acknowledgment from police leadership that a problem exists. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has no stated position on the matter, and the Canadian Police Association says it has no concerns at all.

      To police, the tactical squads simply represent “the reality of law enforcement in Canada”.

      http://www.bcrevolution.ca/government_thugs.htm

      • Orangeville was a haven town for bike gangs when I lived in Toronto. As was Huntsville and Wasaga Beach. Standoffs between First Nations and police happens all the time here.

        You can say “its the cops” and anyone else can counter, there’s been violence commited by First Nations members also. Some of the most horrible crimes against common citizens were carried out by First Nation’s misunderstood young men.

        Montreal in 1995 was full on gang warfare between The Hell’s Angels and the Rock Machine with “The death toll would probably have been higher had they not seized a van containing 24 pounds of dynamite and 3,000 nails. They said its target was a nightclub in East Montreal frequented by the Rock Machine. A couple of nights later a blast tore through another East End bar frequented by Les Hells.”

        Read “The Hunt for Triad Gangster Steven Wong” – by Terry Gould. “Steven Wong is the “paper fan,” a thirty-nine-year-old Hong Kong-born mobster. Raised in New York’s Chinatown, he matured into crime in Vancouver, where he founded and headed the murderous Gum Wah Gang in the late 1980s and early ’90s. In 1992, Wong “died” in a traffic accident in a remote area of the Philippines before he could be sent to jail for heroin trafficking, conveniently just after he’d taken out a million-dollar life insurance policy. His urn may still be interred in a Vancouver cemetery, but today, Interpol has a “Red Alert” arrest warrant out for Wong, and his updated file reads like a Hollywood action film — a post-mortem panorama of organized criminal adventure that circles the Pacific Rim, from Macau to Japan, from Cambodia to the Philippines.” Worst thing here is we received a large slice of the Honk Kong underworld from 1990 until 1997 in a mass exodus too.

        A friendly fire incident? really? Add one more near miss as my father “Big John” was almost tapped by “Wee Andy” in a live fire exercise at CFB Borden where for a time in the mid 70’s he was a tactical driving instructor for MTPD’s SWAT.

        You’ll have to do better BF.

        • Do better at what?

          There are plenty of examples of the tyranny of Militarized Police Force everywhere – Canada and the USA.

          It is a very dangerous trend.

          • Examples of tyranny? Montreal during the gang wars was more dangerous than any other place in North America. It took a child getting murdered in full view of the public, peripheral damage, to mobilize the citizenry into their “Anything to take them down!” mindset. Neat and tidy law enforcement exists on TV and no where else.

            Vancouver’s Triad connections have made areas of Van completely unsafe after sunset. I know a survivor of the inner city gang wars who was best friend to a substantial dealer, now a dead one. He barely got out in time and came back home to his family an absolute mess from what he’d seen, done himself and been through first hand. We’re not speaking of the “shining happy people” nor Canada’s version of Shangri-la.

            US 2008 murders total is 16,272. So how many are perpetrated by “The Man” BF? The best guess I found was 1200 SWAT Teams in America by 1997 numbers and growing steadily was the trend. There has to be gobs of incidents involving them with so damned many Teams out there. I just can’t find them?

            • Gang warfare only exists because of government. Who do you think prohibits regular people from effectively defending themselves and their families? It isn’t the gang members (well, not the gangs you are talking about anyway). “Drug” prohibition is what mostly finances gangs. Where does that come from? Almost every “gang related murder” could be laid at the feet of the state. I know you will not accept this, but there it is.

              • While legalizing drugs would do much to take the money out of the hands of criminals, I lay the blame on the ones that use drugs. That is where the money starts. Personal responsibility.

              • Like it or not, people have an absolute right to put anything into their own bodies, and even to destroy themselves if they want. Denying this right causes all manner of disasters in society.

              • Legalize heroin now eh? Get a grip. Indefensible and idiotic both, kudos.

              • Alan

                What right do you have to determine what another person consumes?

              • If he/she/it does it in a vacuum not hindering me and mine in any way shape or form, let em spike and die. The second they step out and enter interaction with me and mine, its game on. None have the “right” to endanger me and mine. That not acceptable to anyone else, too bad. That I can’t prevent such? Already have.

              • You have no right to redefine the extent of your initiation of violence.
                Unless you can demonstrate Clear and Present Danger – your violent actions upon them is the criminal action – you become the criminal.

              • “RE- legalize” you mean. After almost a century of prohibition the same percentage of the population is addicted to something so how successful has your plan been?

              • Hate to burst your bubble but I will anyway. Gang warfare exists because the number of users is finite. Total market control is what’s best for the dealer. Barney the dinosaur might laud sharing but I can tell you from experience, dealers and dealer networks don’t.

              • And that control, Alan, exists because the government enforces a monopoly on drugs.

                Therefore, the only ones who will attempt to break that monopoly are vicious criminals.

                Remove the monopoly, and there is nothing for the criminals to control

    • In recent years, American police forces have called out SWAT teams 40,000 or more times annually. Last year did you read in your newspaper or hear on TV news of 110 hostage or terrorist events each day? No. What then were the SWAT teams doing? They were serving routine warrants to people who posed no danger to the police or to the public.

      Occasionally Washington think tanks produce reports that are not special pleading for donors. One such report is Radley Balko’s “Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America” (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php… Cato Institute, 2006).

      • Flagster, Many thanks for the info. The first cato would not load for me. The natural news had a link to:

        http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476,

        This book by a cato member estimates 40,000 SWAT style raids each year in the US.

        More than half of your examples are from Canada, and while I will agree there is too much abuse of police authority, I am still thinking our guest writer has overstated it.

        My information from over a year ago only documented about 100 total cases of wrongful death due to no knock warrants. That is over a 15 year or longer period. I am not pleased with those deaths, but it is much different than 300 a year.

        FYI, I was born in the show me state.

        • The abuse comes from lowering standards not the institution itself. The RCMP had to lower theirs in order to accommodate women and First Nation’s people. In the US there are drastic differences in the use of psych profiles, stress management and situational awareness testing as well as lax physical minimums between departments. I’ve spoken at length with my brother and brother in-law on this very issue. Back then I was putting in my gym time at Depot in Regina. I was saddened at what was allowed to pass through those doors and all for the sake of being PC.

          There was a time in Toronto when a great many officers here were former Irish, Scottish and Welsh military and paramilitary. In Belfast people were missing each and every week for political reasons and these ones and two’s were local media so out of your earshot. That this didn’t happen in Toronto with an influx of Belfast’s meanest bastards from 1967 through the early 70’s shouldn’t be lost on anyone. “The Man” had the right players but still there was no game? There’s one question answered.

      • Tactical goes out every time a high powered rifle is involved here. Our guys only got 9mm handguns 20 years ago. Until then it was assault rifles and handguns against the awesome stopping power of the 38 “not so” special. You want to be a beat cop and go up against some clown with a 30-06 and Redfield 3×9 and you with your 38 with a 4 inch barrel? Be my guest. Sniping works for both sides of an argument.

        Also here tactical is the only squad carrying rifles. The last mass murder of RCMP officers was 9mm hand guns VS a hunting rifle in the hand of an every day hunter.

        Too many of mine are/were military and/or police officers. Of us all, there’s but a handful not having served and I’m one of that minority. I have however been shooting since the age of 6.

        • Pop was a Cop.

          His revolver was more than enough to keep the peace. Today, a cop is better armed than a 2nd World War solider. It is ridiculous.

          The bullet-proof vests, 9mm-10mm with 50 rounds in their belts, M16 in the car trunk, Tasers, riot baton, …. escalates violence and doesn’t reduce it.

          Pop was in charge of the Riot Team, and Sniper team. In his 35 years, he fired his weapon (his revolver) ONCE, in the air, to disperse a riot.

          The police either are there to Keep the Peace or Protect the State. They cannot do both at the same time.

          There is no excuse for the cops to be street soldiers. 99.99% of the interactions do not require weapons.

          The shooting of the RCMP officers was not due to a weakness in the armaments of the police. It had to do with operational stupidity. The officers had sufficient weapons in their cars – and the perpetrator was shot by one of the other officers with his 9mm handgun.

  14. To Bones, Flag, Kent, et al;

    First look at history. Look at what brought on the “Dark Ages” and then look at what brought on the “Renaissance” then answer this one very important question; “Do the technologies of today present themselves to the scenarios of the past?” The answer is “NO”.

    Think about it. The Human technological advancements of this modern era just do not allow what happened during the dark ages to raise up its ugly head – no matter what the idiots in Hollywood like to portray in their doom & gloom fantasy world of post apocalypse movies.

    What we are doing here – global individual communicating (aka the Internet) – and other technologies just prevent a communications blackout.

    Unless something so catastrophic (and I mean literally in biblical proportions) should happen that would cause all of us humans to not want to communicate with one another and submit ourselves to global slavery en mass, the doomsayer scenario just ain’t gonna happen.

    Oh, FYI – This great nation stopped being an “experiment” with the end of our civil war. We have traditions, we have history, we have purpose, and most importantly we have a national identity. Open your eyes and take a good look around. If you look at it, you will see it.

    • Modern technology will likely make the new Renaissance better, and more unpredictable, than the past one. The nature of modern technology makes decentralization more possible, and makes externalized, coercive government more obsolete than it even was before. What will be the results? I hope I live to see.

      I do agree with this: “This great nation stopped being an ‘experiment’ with the end of our civil war.” America died in the Civil War to be replaced by “The United States”. The experiment came to a tragic end.

    • G. A. Rowe

      To Bones, Flag, Kent, et al; First look at history. Look at what brought on the “Dark Ages”

      Global Cooling, and famine.

      and then look at what brought on the “Renaissance”

      Global Warming and the improvements weaponry (gunpowder) held by the commoner. Whenever individual human rights improve, so does the state of society – and the converse is equally true.

      The use of the harquebus during the battle of Pravia in 1525 where the French knights >were defeated by heavy fire from harquebusiers provided incentive for others to acquire the harquebus.

      then answer this one very important question; “Do the technologies of today present themselves to the scenarios of the past?” The answer is “NO”. Think about it. The Human technological advancements of this modern era just do not allow what happened during the dark ages to raise up its ugly head – no matter what the idiots in Hollywood like to portray in their doom & gloom fantasy world of post apocalypse movies. What we are doing here – global individual communicating (aka the Internet) – and other technologies just prevent a communications blackout. Unless something so catastrophic (and I mean literally in biblical proportions) should happen that would cause all of us humans to not want to communicate with one another and submit ourselves to global slavery en mass, the doomsayer scenario just ain’t gonna happen.

      You are somewhat correct in one way, and not so in another.

      In their book, The Sovereign Individual Lord Moog and John Davidson go into great detail regarding the consequences of geopolitical, technology and environment drivers that destroy current paradigms and herald new ones.

      You are correct in the part where technology et al of modern world will create something different from the Dark Ages.

      I would argue, however, that what would be created is (1) unknown - since it isn’t here yet (2) will be of the consequences of current technology and geopolitical collapse in a manner we have not seen since the Roman Empire’s fall.

      We can have a lot of fun surmising the consequence of the mix of geopolitical collapse with advance technology – again Moog and Davidson present a myriad of scenarios. All I can say is that they are almost guaranteed to be wrong – for the reasons I outlines briefly above (#12) – that is, we cannot accurately describe what we have never seen and do not understand or know.

      However, we can say this – which is “Bones” article – this paradigm – centered on government and the nation-state – is unsustainable and is collapsing.

      My position (which I believe JAC shares as well) –

      A) The future does not reveal itself before itself is created.

      B) The future can be influenced and guided by Human Action.

      C) Depending on such guidance, the future can be better or worse than today.

      D) All consequences of Human Action (intended and significantly, unintended) are unknown.

      E) Therefore, to maximize the best change for positive consequences, moral action must be made

      F) We, as the Remnant of the failed paradigm – must decide prior to the creation of the new paradigm what moral principles will guide such creation.

      Oh, FYI – This great nation stopped being an “experiment” with the end of our civil war. We have traditions, we have history, we have purpose, and most importantly we have a national identity. Open your eyes and take a good look around. If you look at it, you will see it.

      As I exampled with other, past, global geopolitical paradigm shifts – whatever the traditions, history, identity or purpose are destroyed or eliminated or changed to a degree unrecognizable.

      Consider the man in the Dark Ages – who knew ghosts and witchcraft existed – who whipped himself in piety to God – saw himself a serf and chattel to his master – had no understanding of ‘nation’ but fully understood ‘tribe’ and ‘King’….etc.

      Almost nothing of his identity, beliefs, traditions … exists today. There is very little of those from ‘that past’ we would want to have kept, either.

      We should not expect to saddle ourselves with the traditions and beliefs – and most importantly, identities (such as ‘citizen’ of a ‘nation’) from a failed and collapsed paradigm.

      • Global Cooling, and famine. – ?

        Global cooling? – This planet goes through these phases periodically so it did not cause the dark ages. Just my opinion.

        Famine? – Famine was the result of something, not the cause of something. You point it out later in your rebuttal, the political collapse which was actually the result of wars being lost. That is how I have come to understand it.

        A) The future does not reveal itself before itself is created. – Wrong there (but this is just a difference in our personal opinions) because as I have learned it, the future has always revealed itself as it is doing right now in the massive rejection of political socialism with the gatherings all around this nation over the weekend of 9/12.

        B. C. and D. are correct to some extent.

        As for the rest, well, wether or not we survive as a free society is entirely up to us. The reason nothing has survived of the pre-dark age empires is that like all empires they were controlled by a single individual and as all dictatorships go, they went. Just like Hitler’s Third Reich.

        That is why I have been and remain an advocate of a Presiding Council to replace the POTUS, a group comprised of elected individuals from different regions of this country. Don’t say that we have it now in the House and Senate – we do not.

        But then, you do know my position on these things, and my position has not and never will change.

        Enjoy your weekend, oh and BTW – thanks to Mrs. Flag for the link on the food storage folks. Excellent ideas there, especially things to keep YOU busy and out of trouble. ;-)

      • Christian Patriot says:

        Having recently hear Mr. Bonesteel for the first time, I was researching his writings and found this dialogue of interest! In searching for understanding of our present situation and expectations of the future, I have discovered streams of thought that are interesting and troubling. In the stream of this discussion I am directed to my consistent conclusion from my own paradigm, the Biblical predictions of this world’s end. The underpinings of this life are inescapable, good versus evil. The cycle of man’s journey on earth have been various and spiral. The great plan laid down before the foundation of this world, the cresendo, was Calvary. The spiral of events following went upward and downward with extremes, Middle Ages, Rennaissance, Reformation, Americanism (?). The next extreme of evil, which is presently working mightily, will require another cresendo, the Rapture and Christ’s Millenium Reign followed by judgment by fire and then the New Heaven and New Earth. I will continue to contemplate the scenarios of a different future and prepare for the immediate upheavals to the “good life” America has enjoyed, but the underpining of good versus evil will not continue forever, thankfully!

        • Good vs. Evil-agree with that statement-although determining which is which-is at times very hard to determine.

          • V.H.

            No, it is very easy.

            Those who want to inflict violence on non-violent people so to enforce a viewpoint are always evil.

            Avoiding this action quickly moves one out of evil and towards good.

  15. Excellent post!!

    If people on “either side” wish to avoid violence and war, it is simple: stop imposing your ideology on others. You don’t like guns- don’t get one. You don’t like abortion- don’t have one. And stop demanding that everyone else be forced to live by your values. Stop taking money from people to be used against them by government. If you believe God is on your side, then let God deal with the opposition. As long as people are not attacking you, what they do is none of your business. To pretend otherwise is just making war inevitable.

    • Kent,

      I believe that there are a number of people who WANT violence. They think that they will prevail and the whole ends-justifies-the-means will rule the day.

      • No doubt Cyndi. Those are the ones who see themselves at the bottom of the totem pole. They think if the totem pole gets inverted they will be at the top. They don’t realize that they will be the first to be killed in self defense. Without the state to protect them from the consequences of their actions they are toast.

        In my original comment I was referring to the ones (like Pelosi) who are pretending that they are innocent victims who don’t understand why anyone would be angry with what they are trying to do “for” the country.

        • Kent,

          I agree with you about the lowest on the totem pole types. They think they have nothing left to lose. They have plenty to lose, they just don’t think its possible. I also believe that there are some very powerful poeple who want the violence too. Why settle for the US when you can have the whole world? America must be taken down before the elites can move up to the next level. These same elites believe they can control Islam, too. Controling Islam is like taming a grizzly bear. You can’t really do it. Its either you or the grizzly…

        • Kent,

          I am surprised that you of all people have missed the significance of the Totem.

          The most important figure on the Totem is the one on the bottom for he and he alone holds up the rest of the Totem.

          The saying “Low Man on the Totem Pole” is the uneducated white man’s invention since he does not understand the significance of the Totem.

  16. I sometimes hesitate to the get into these debates. I’m an optimist and do not see things as black as BF or others. I do think that we are in for some rough times ahead but I am encouraged by the TEA party movement and think that it hopefully will moderate the leftward movement and bring us back to fundamentals. I do feel that we are not being served well by either party. The candidates of late have been extremely weak. Statemanship is virtually nonexistant. Politics in this country has always been contentious. Before the libel laws, competing newspapers printed almost anything to pound their opponents into submission.

    I am encouraged today that Obama has come out against the racist labeling. However, he is late and not forcefull enough. He should be defending the majority of Americans and congratulating them for the racial atitude progress that has been made over the last 60 years. As the president for all the people, he should be denouncing the racial accusations of both parties including Carter, Waters and others.

    Somehow we need to get the pols to stop pandering to the camera and to start debating the real problems in this country with real facts and potential solutions. As BF pointed out yesterday, almost every major social program begun since FDR is bankrupt, approaching it, failed to meet is original objective, or obsolete. Afirmative action for example is obsolete. It has run it course and done all it can. It is time to go to a color blind policy. It would be better to expend energy on identifying the root causes of the disparities in society than to treat the apparent symptoms. Many of these problems can be traced back to personal responsibility.

    When I look ahead, I see the US following the path of Great Britain. I observed during the Falklands War the impotence of a once great world power. GB had extreme difficulty projecting power to that small island something a century ago they would have handled with ease. We fielded 500,000 men in Vietman for 8 years but are stretched to field 150,000 in Iraq. While our technology is better and our forces are competent and we can project great power, we are doing so with greater difficulty. Is that because we lack the will or because we have squandered our wealth on failed social programs.

    How do we get the pols to be pragmatic? To solve problems without all the hyperbole. How do we get them to review failed programs and end them or repair them so that they are successful? I am a firm believer in sunset laws. I think we should have an amendment that all laws/programs sunset in a fixed number of years. That would force the dabate back to the surface at renewal time. It would also keep Congress busy on the fundamentals of government.

    I would encourage the collapse of the MSM media. It is a gross failure. I tried an experiment sometime ago. I would read an article in the local MSM then would go back and cross out all the adjectives and adverbs. The reread the edited article. It was instructive on how biased the article was. The vast majority of articles leaned in one direction. As the alternate media increases, we see the amount of information that the MSM omits. Again it leans primarily in one direction. In some ways I think the MSM is overpopulated, spread too thin leading to lower quality and less time allowed for proper research. The quality of the reporting has definitely decreased over the years.

    I’ll stop my rambling now and go pick some apples. Hope asll is well in the USW household.

    • Why do you consider the inevitable collapse of a horrible institution based upon death and theft to be “black”? I see it as an exciting opportunity that doesn’t present itself very often. There will undoubtedly be some really bad moments as unintended consequences of the state come to roost, but that isn’t the fault of the birth of freedom; it is the fault of those who have tried to keep freedom bound for so long. Freedom is always the best answer.

      • BF is painting a picture of total government and society collapse. I do note see that happening. There is enough pragmatism in this country to prevent that. I do see significant hard times ahead. Certainly inflation will reappear in the next few years. It is either inflate the debt away or default on it. We will choose to inflate it. That means savings will disappear, wages will not keep up with prices. We will be a poorer country as a result. China and Russia will become the super powers followed by the US and India. Our influence will substantially decline but we will still exist. We have a clear choice in the next few years to follow Obama into socialism or to reverse the course back to fiscal responsibilty. If we go the former way, then BF is correct and all will collapse. If we move back to fiscal and individual responsibility, then it will take 2-3 decades to correct the harm that has been done over the last few decades.

        For the move back to fiscal and individual responsibility, “conservatives” must become more articulate and state their case clearly without sounding like extremist. Rush, Hannity, and Glenn are right about many of the things that they say but to many on the left they sound like nuts thus are is played up by the MSM as extremists. All arguments should be based on facts without exaggeration or name calling. Whenever the other side uses hyperbole, lies, exaggerations, name calling, they should be called on it and countered with the facts. While I dislike Joe Wilson’s lack of decorum, I applauded the fact that someone finally said it. This should be the job of the MSM, but they have lost all credibility.

        • Well, government collapse doesn’t equal social collapse.

          The government’s debt isn’t my debt, nor is it yours. Repudiate it. If the government inflates away your money, it is because you are using the wrong money. Stop using the counterfeit garbage the government prints… well, more important, stop accepting in payment the counterfeit US dollars. If someone pays you with them, get real stuff in your hands as quick as you can. Unless you like fancy toilet paper.

          The problem is that “conservatives” are no more fiscally responsible than are “liberals/progressives”. They even actively support a lot of very expensive and destructive government activities.

          Those who tell the truth will always be treated like, and portrayed as, extremists by those in the MSM (or anyone who depends on the status quo). Don’t mince words around these people. Tell the truth and let the reaction sort out who to rely on and trust.

          • Actually if the government abruptly collapses, the social program end. This will lead to severe social unrest until people figure out how to live without them. Thus the collapse of society.

            The reason I put “conservatives” in quotes was to differentiate it from the so called conservative party (Republican). The true definition of conservative is one who defends the status quo. But I am not happy with the status quo either. I would like to see a return to fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, and adherence to the Constitution which would mean that many of the social programs would be phased out since I think they are unconstitutional.

    • T-Ray,

      Some good thought presented. I would also like an increase in sunset laws, and expand that to government agencies. As for MSM, accountability is the issue. Why can’t they be sued when
      they deliberately falsify stories?

      • They can be sued if they libel an individual. But that is not enough. Competition is the key. Fox is providing some. There needs to be more. The reason Fox gets little respect is because of their opinion shows. The only other way I know to keep the MSM accountable is to not buy the product. I stopped taking the local MSM print version a couple of years ago. I got tired of the unidirectional writing. It looks like most of the MSM is in serious financial trouble. I find it difficult to believe that they cannot figure out that it might be the quality of the product.

        In most cases they probably can verify what they publish. The problem is how the information is skewed what they omit.

    • Alert in Michigan says:

      Thanks for your thoughts, T-Ray. It’s good to hear your perspectives and positive perspective.

  17. If you try to kill yourself, can you be arrested for attempted murder? After all, isn’t attempted murder a felony? Or does it not work that way in trying to kill yourself. I have always wondered about that.

    • In many jurisdictions it is against the law to attempt suicide.

      The question is rarely about self-ownership (except perhaps the “Right to Die” stuff revolving around extreme of life quality) – the ‘law’ looks upon anyone wanting to kill themselves as insane, and therefore unable to properly take care of themsevles.

      • Hi BF

        I was thinking about that after that conversation from the other day. But, not all people who kill themselves are insane. Maybe they just couldn’t take it anymore. Maybe something happened to cause them to do that, who really knows for sure.

  18. Excellent article, Bones. I’ve felt the same way for some time now. Whenever I would try to discuss it with others, I was dismissed, usually with words to the effect of ‘crazy’ or ‘stupid’. Thanks for lettimg me know I’m neither.

  19. T-Ray

    BF is painting a picture of total government and society collapse.

    I do note see that happening. There is enough pragmatism in this country to prevent that.

    Pragmatism is what got us in trouble.

    There are some things that no matter what you do, cannot stop.

    I do see significant hard times ahead. Certainly inflation will reappear in the next few years. It is either inflate the debt away or default on it. We will choose to inflate it.

    They have to do both.

    Trillions has been created = inflation.

    Trillions is needed for Social Services = they will default on it.

    Our influence will substantially decline but we will still exist.

    “Exist”? I doubt the People will go away.

    But not like the US is today – it will break up like Russia and Yugoslavia. The choice will be “voluntarily” or “by revolution”.

    We have a clear choice in the next few years to follow Obama into socialism or to reverse the course back to fiscal responsibilty.

    Too late on both accounts.

    Who is going to buy GM/Chrysler? No one trusts the US business climate after reneging on the bonds.

    How are the banks going to ‘unnationalize’ themselves? Government flows one way – more control – not less.

    You are claiming an action of government that has never happened except by revolutions – that is, voluntarily reduce control

    Point to an example T-Ray.

    If we go the former way, then BF is correct and all will collapse. If we move back to fiscal and individual responsibility, then it will take 2-3 decades to correct the harm that has been done over the last few decades.

    Because you only think it has been ‘last few decades’ is why you miss the mark.

    This is a problem that has been festering since 1918 – nearly 100 years. We still have yet to reckon the losses of World War One…. let alone:
    -Great Depression
    -WW2
    -Korea
    -Vietnam
    -War on Poverty
    -Cold War
    -War on Drugs
    -Socialism
    -Nixon 1972 economic collapse
    -War on Terror

    This is not a ‘few decades’ worth of problems.

    • Pragmatism did not get us here. A pragmatic would realize a program is not working and either kill it or modify it so it does. While the program may have been started by idealistic pragmatics, it is sustained indefinitly by idealism, pride, ego, and greed for power. We have conducted the great social experiment started by FDR and supported by or enhanced by every president since. It hss failed. The only program that I can remember that was even moderately modified was Gingrich’s changes in welfare. Even that we are now undoing instead of moving to the next phase of weaning people off welfare. We can back away from these progams but it is a slow weaning process that will take discipline. It may be too late but I hope not.

      I see inflation ahead; I see us defaulting on SS, medicare and other entitlements. We may default on the loans but that will be a bitter pill. There will be suffering for sure. Will that break up the country, I cannot say. Major cities will have the biggest problems since they are already in the worst shape.

      I do predict an attempt to break up the country if illegal immigration is not stopped. I predict there will be a call for a plebiscite to break off the southwest to an independent country. That plea will be taken to the UN which will force the issue. If we are in financial trouble when that happens, it will just be easier to accomplish.

      BF, the current direction of the country can be reversed. We need a body of selfless people equal to the founding fathers. They came together at a unique point in history and put together this great experiment. I find it hard to belief that there aren’t 100 men in the US today up to that task. Just because something has never been done, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

      • T-Ray:

        I am afraid you are absolutely incorrect on this point: “Pragmatism did not get us here.” I think you are misunderstanding what “pragmatism” really is with respect to political philosophy and application. The consumate “pragmatist” in recent times was perhaps Nixon. A supposed
        “conservative” who imposed price controls in response to a normal economic problem. Escalation of military action in Vietnam in order to stop the war. The latest example is Bush II and his decision to “abandon free market principles in order to save the free market”.

        You see, pragmatism is a lack of ideological or philosophical core needed to guide decision making. The need to take action becomes the driving force. Act now and act quickly becomes the mantra. As a core value “pragmatism” can actually be more dangerous than the ideologue socialist. The need to take action can lead to devastating decisions, including mass murder, all in the name of doing somethinng to solve the problems at hand.

        I suggest that the better word to describe what you are looking for would be “practicle” or the often used “common sense”. I would prefer “rational”. It would be “rational” to abandon programs that we absolutely can’t afford and that don’t meet the stated goals.

        And our Founding Fathers were not “selfless” men. They were “selfish” men in the truist sense. They had complete understanding and love of “self”. Their drive to win Liberty and Freedom was based on a very “selfish” motive.

        Selfish = Liberty and Freedom, individual responsibility, free market capitalism.

        Selfless = Without self, altruism, sacrifice of self for the greater good of society, socialism.

        There are far more than 100 men and women in this country who could help resurrect the nation you describe. It is the other 299.999 million that are posing a slight impediment at the moment.

        I do not disagree with your primary, or underlying, points. You just need to clean up your definitions so that your words are consistant with your stated core values.

        Hope you have a great Sunday.
        JAC

        • •an adherent of philosophical pragmatism
          •a person who takes a practical approach to problems and is concerned primarily with the success or failure of her actions
          wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

          •Pragmatism is the philosophy of considering practical consequences and real effects to be vital components of meaning and truth. Pragmatism is generally considered to have originated in the late nineteenth century with Charles Sanders Peirce, who first stated the pragmatic maxim. …
          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatist

          •One who acts in a practical or straightforward manner; one who is pragmatic; one who values practicality or pragmatism; One who acts in response to particular situations rather than upon abstract ideals; one who is willing to ignore their ideals to accomplish goals; One who belongs to the …
          en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pragmatist

          •pragmatism – (philosophy) the doctrine that practical consequences are the criteria of knowledge and meaning and value
          •pragmatism – realism: the attribute of accepting the facts of life and favoring practicality and literal truth
          wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

          •Pragmatism – * In ordinary usage, pragmatism refers to behavior which temporarily sets aside one ideal to pursue a lesser, more achievable ideal.
          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism_(non-technical_usage)

          •pragmatism – The pursuit of practicality over aesthetic qualities; a concentration on facts rather than emotions or ideals; The theory that political problems should be met with practical solutions rather than ideological ones; The idea that beliefs are identified with the actions of a believer, and the …
          en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pragmatism

          JAC, I accept that the term pragmatist may not be the best to describe what I mean. What I am looking for are practical solutions that solve the short term problems but with long term considerations. All solutions have long term consequences. Too often we solve the short term but fail to consider the long term even though those consequenses are obvious. Corn base ethanol is one such solution. Could no one anticipate the rise in the price of food with the increased demand for corn? Can no one anticipate the depletion of soil nutrients and quality as farms increase acreage to meet that demand? MTBE in gasoline was another fisco that could have been averted. These solutions were brought in by idealists who had no regard for long term consequences.

          The founders were selfless in the sense that they did not grab absolute power for themselves when they had the opportunity. Selfish in the sense that all powers not enumerated were left to the states and the people (themselves). The American Revolution was a conservative revolution in the fact that they wanted to maintain the status quo. They had been governing themselves for 150 years without much interference from the crown. That changed after the French and Indian Wars.

          Regarding the 299.999 million impedements, as during the Revolution, 1/3 can be made to see the light, 1/3 will oppose any change, and 1/3 will not care. It is a matter of education and communication such as this site is doing that will make the difference. Unfortunately this is a slow process.

          • Everyone keeps talking about our economy completely collapsing -wouldn’t drilling for oil be a short and long term help to our economy- wouldn’t it put people to work, give people more faith in the dollar because of the potential money, and wouldn’t the income from oil sells be another form of currency, sorta like gold?

            • I meant isn’t oil, another way to back the dollar.

              • Oil will help but is not the entire solution. It has a 2x benefit ala “a penny saved is a penny earned”. Not passing cap & trade, implementing no cost health care solutions (tort, et. al.) first, reducing corporate taxes to encourage businesses to stay here, reducing governement spending at all levels, eliminating waste and corruption, … all would have a significant impact on the fiscal problems. We could eliminate production subsidies for “green” energy solutions. The great industries auto, petroleum, chemicals, steel, computer etc. were all founded and thrived without government intervention. Of the greats, only ag, rail and electric had major government involvement. Ag and rail needed intervention because of the need for land which the government owned. If the “green” industries are economically viable, they will compete on there own without subsidies. If not let them fail.

                Yes we should start using our own internal natural resouces again. We can do that without interfering with international trade treaties. We have lots of oil, coal, timber, etc. that we are blocked from using. CA imports more wood and aggregate than is produced in state. We are blessed with huge forests and sit on mountains of rock. We have oil oozing out of the sea bed in SoCal but we can not drill for it to relieve the pressure. The reason the local saw mills have shut down is not for a lack of trees, it is because of workman’s comp, taxes, harassment by environmentalist, government red tape in getting logging permits even on their own land, etc. It is not the capital investment, normal production expenses, or labor costs that are making them uncompetitive. It is the non-value added expenses that cause the problems.

                Yes, oil is a way to back the dollar. I have even joked that we will have to sign over to China exploration rites to ANWAR and the Bakke field (ND) in lieu of debt payment.

              • v. Holland said
                September 20, 2009 at 11:56 am

                Everyone keeps talking about our economy completely collapsing -wouldn’t drilling for oil be a short and long term help to our economy- wouldn’t it put people to work, give people more faith in the dollar because of the potential money, and wouldn’t the income from oil sells be another form of currency, sorta like gold?
                Reply

                *
                v. Holland said
                September 20, 2009 at 11:58 am

                I meant isn’t oil, another way to back the dollar.
                Reply
                o
                T-Ray said
                September 20, 2009 at 1:07 pm

                Oil will help but is not the entire solution. It has a 2x benefit ala “a penny saved is a penny earned”. Not passing cap & trade, implementing no cost health care solutions (tort, et. al.) first, reducing corporate taxes to encourage businesses to stay here, reducing governement spending at all levels, eliminating waste and corruption, … all would have a significant impact on the fiscal problems. We could eliminate production subsidies for “green” energy solutions. The great industries auto, petroleum, chemicals, steel, computer etc. were all founded and thrived without government intervention. Of the greats, only ag, rail and electric had major government involvement. Ag and rail needed intervention because of the need for land which the government owned. If the “green” industries are economically viable, they will compete on there own without subsidies. If not let them fail.

                Yes we should start using our own internal natural resouces again. We can do that without interfering with international trade treaties. We have lots of oil, coal, timber, etc. that we are blocked from using. CA imports more wood and aggregate than is produced in state. We are blessed with huge forests and sit on mountains of rock. We have oil oozing out of the sea bed in SoCal but we can not drill for it to relieve the pressure. The reason the local saw mills have shut down is not for a lack of trees, it is because of workman’s comp, taxes, harassment by environmentalist, government red tape in getting logging permits even on their own land, etc. It is not the capital investment, normal production expenses, or labor costs that are making them uncompetitive. It is the non-value added expenses that cause the problems.

                v. Holland

                Everyone keeps talking about our economy completely collapsing -wouldn’t drilling for oil be a short and long term help to our economy- wouldn’t it put people to work, give people more faith in the dollar because of the potential money, and wouldn’t the income from oil sells be another form of currency, sorta like gold?

                Sigh.

                Currency is not money.

                Money is the commodity that is the most desired. It could be oil – it could be gold. It could be green pieces of paper.

                The only way the economy grows is by an increase of productivity. That is done by improving the efficiency of production or effectiveness of production.

                T-ray

                Ag and rail needed intervention because of the need for land which the government owned.

                What intervention? Government did not ‘own the land’ – the People did. The only land the Government ‘owns’ is DC.

                It is the non-value added expenses that cause the problems.

                Government is not an expense. It is the problem.

                But I bet you still want a government, right?

              • I HATE the lack of editors….

                v. Holland

                Everyone keeps talking about our economy completely collapsing -wouldn’t drilling for oil be a short and long term help to our economy- wouldn’t it put people to work, give people more faith in the dollar because of the potential money, and wouldn’t the income from oil sells be another form of currency, sorta like gold?

                Sigh.

                Currency is not money.

                Money is the commodity that is the most desired. It could be oil – it could be gold. It could be green pieces of paper.

                The only way the economy grows is by an increase of productivity. That is done by improving the efficiency of production or effectiveness of production.

                T-ray

                Ag and rail needed intervention because of the need for land which the government owned.

                What intervention? Government did not ‘own the land’ – the People did. The only land the Government ‘owns’ is DC.

                It is the non-value added expenses that cause the problems.

                Government is not an expense. It is the problem.

                But I bet you still want a government, right?

              • I’m not as elegant as you but I’m pretty sure that’s what I said. The point is could drilling for oil,and going after natural gases(not sure how you get those out) save our economy.

              • It will not save the economy.

                The eurrent crisis is not an oil problem. It is a fiat currency problem.

              • View natural resouces as one would view inventory in a manufacturing company. In times of financial trouble convert your inventory to cash.

                BF, yes we have a currency crisis that is the result of government overspending and the resultant creation of currency. We can back some of that currency with oil. I am not sure how we get out of this problem but it begins with the removal of 537 individuals in DC. If that does not work, then collapse or revolution may be called for.

          • T-Ray,

            I echo JAC.

            Pragmatism is the original sin.

            When a person is a pragmatist, he is “no principles” person. He will do what he ‘has to do’ to the benefit of himself regardless of the consequences to others.

            He is unpredictable, for he will lie if he needs to to get what he wants.

            He is unreasoned, for he will contradict anything to achieve the goal he desires.

            Pragmatism is the God of the Savage.

            • No I disagree. A true pragmatist will look long and short. Socialism has proven not to work, so it is not a pragmatic solution althoug it sure looks like one short term. You can be pragmatic and be true to long term goals if those goals are practical. Maybe the word I am looking for does not exist.

              • Your description of a pragmatist does not contradict mine.

                A pragmatist is only concerned with his own self as an end – and cares not about the means to achieve that end.

                That is the savage.

      • Just because something has never been done, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

        This is the point I keep making about shedding “our” infantile “need” for government completely. Why just go partway- a partway doomed to fail yet again- when the answer is staring you right in the face. Government is not the solution. It will always lead right back to where we are heading every single time it is tried because it is evil at its core. Hasn’t 5000 years of examples shown that already? It is a failed experiment, based on flawed premises. Statism is Utopian.

        • I don’t think government is an infantile need. I think it is the result of having a complex society. Only the simplest of aboriginal societies survived without some form of hierarchical structure. Those societies disappeared when encountering one with a greater structure. As long as there are nation states on this earth, there will be governments. As has been pointed out on this site, all governments are power hungry and eventually collapse from over reach.

          Jefferson professed a revolution every generation. We are overdue. With our ability to elect representatives, we have the means to accomplish that without violence. We have not done it. There are far too many in Washington who have been there more than a generation (20 years). The corruption of Washington is too great and we need to change our own practices. I like the phrase, “diapers and politicians need to be changed frequently and for the same reason.”

          • Typical.

            Confusion of society order = “government”

            (sigh) I ask again.

            What is your definition of “government”, T-Ray?

            Does that definition actually resemble the reality you are defining?

            • BF, I can not keep up with you.

              Any person or entity that can coerce me in any way and do so by claiming some “right” to do it is a form of government. That would include tribal chiefs, kings, democracies, republics, etc. I exclude criminals from this list since they have no claim to a legal right to coerce me. To some I may give my consent to be governed, to others I may not. I do not know how one would separate societal structure from government.

  20. Warren Bonesteel says:

    The comments here are wonderful. It’s exactly what I set out to do what I compiled the material and wrote the open letter, that is to promote an open, calm and rational discussion of the issues at hand.

    At first, America was intended to be a republic. That lasted for approximately sixty or seventy years. It then became a democratic republic, which lated for about sixty or seventy years. It then became a democracy, which lasted for about sixty or seventy years. Over the last five or six decades, it has been a socialist oligarchy. A tyranny, in all but name. Throughout our lives, our traditional institutions have taught us all that we are free, in fact, that America is the free-est nation that has ever existed, yet, every aspect of our lives has been regulated and controlled by our own government.

    The next step in the progression is not tyranny or dictatorship. That’s where we’ve been for the last sixtyyears or more.

    The next step is a return to freedom.

    • Beautifully and truthfully written essay, Bones. All of your ideas are underpinned by historical fact and current events, on both the left and right.

      “The next step in the progression is not tyranny or dictatorship. That’s where we’ve been for the last sixtyyears or more.

      The next step is a return to freedom.”

      I hear you, brother. Well said.

    • Warren Bonesteel

      I find myself in full agreement with your analysis and prediction.

      Cheers!

  21. Did Bernanke save us from another Great Depression?

    The answer is obvious to most here, but not elsewhere.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090917/cm_csm/yselgin

  22. Good Morning everyone.

    Just wanted to stop in and say HEY. Hope all is having a good weekend, or what’s left of it.

    Going to air races today, and looking forward to it. Can’t wait to see all the planes doing their thing. Suppose to be a dogfight with a team called the Red Eagles and some other one, and really looking forward to that. Blue Angels are suppose to be there doing their thing too. Suppose to be about 20 of us there, just kicking back, BBQ-ing and watching and just enjoying the day.

    Hope all are doing great.

    Judy

  23. G. A. Rowe

    Global Cooling, and famine. – ? Global cooling? – This planet goes through these phases periodically so it did not cause the dark ages.

    Sir, they cause geopolitical events – and throughout history, this is primary cause.

    Whether the political event begets a Dark Ages or some other age is moot. In this cause, it did. But such global events cause paradigm change.

    Just my opinion. Famine? – Famine was the result of something, not the cause of something.

    huh?

    Famine is the result a failure of agriculture.

    It causes massive millions of people to die from not having food.

    Does that help?

    You point it out later in your rebuttal, the political collapse which was actually the result of wars being lost. That is how I have come to understand it.

    Whether the wars are won or lost is irrelevant.

    The economic and human cost has yet to be reckoned with.

    A) The future does not reveal itself before itself is created. – Wrong there (but this is just a difference in our personal opinions) because as I have learned it, the future has always revealed itself as it is doing right now in the massive rejection of political socialism with the gatherings all around this nation over the weekend of 9/12.

    You can predict the future no better than God.

    God cannot predict the future.

    B. C. and D. are correct to some extent. As for the rest, well, wether or not we survive as a free society is entirely up to us. The reason nothing has survived of the pre-dark age empires is that like all empires they were controlled by a single individual and as all dictatorships go, they went. Just like Hitler’s Third Reich.

    Greeks were republics – they went away too. Forgot them?

    Excellent ideas there, especially things to keep YOU busy and out of trouble. ;-)

    Indeed :)

    • “Famine is the result a failure of agriculture.” – What caused the failure of agriculture? No, it was not the result of global cooling or warming. The failure of agriculture was Human caused, so what did Humans do to cause the failure of agriculture? Answer – War (and would you call that a geopolitical event?)no matter either won or lost.

      “You can predict the future no better than God.

      God cannot predict the future.”

      If you believe in God, then you know that God does not predict the future – God makes the future.

      However, what are we doing on this blog when we speak of the dire consequences of the idiotic actions of our politicians? I do believe that all of us here understand that what our politicians are doing will cause a total collapse of our political system if we do nothing about it, and everyone (except those of you who profess to be anarchists) understand completely that this cannot be a good thing at all.

      No, no one can accurately predict the exact future, but most of us do know the possible outcome of what is happening to our once great nation.

      I, for one, would not settle for Anarchy as you would, and I am not alone. I have written many times about what I would like to see in the re-formation of our governmental makeup so I will not boor you with those words again. I do believe, for our society to survive, we do need some form of government that is much less invasive and much less controlling along with a society that understands and advocates the importance of individual responsibility.

      I know that you do not agree on any of this so I shall not ask you that question.

      “Greeks were republics – they went away too. Forgot them?” – They failed because they failed to support and defend their republic. That is why they disappeared.

      Get some more one gallon milk jugs, my friend, we are going to need them – and a lot sooner than anyone may think . . . even me.

      • Do not use milk jugs for any storage, they will not last. If you use plastic use 2 or 3 liter drink bottles.

      • G. A. Rowe

        No, it was not the result of global cooling or warming.

        Sir, I have no idea how you come to this misunderstanding, but allow me to correct you.

        Global cooling impacted the growth of crops – the yields were insufficient to feed the population. This is called a “Famine”.

        The failure of agriculture was Human caused

        Unless humans control the Sun, I have absolutely no idea where you are getting these ideas.

        , so what did Humans do to cause the failure of agriculture? Answer – War (and would you call that a geopolitical event?)no matter either won or lost.

        There was no war during the time of this Famine. The Roman Empire had collapsed – leaving Europe essentially free.

        It represented the greatest explosion of human prosperity in history when the Romans collapsed. Global cooling destroyed that prosperity.

        “You can predict the future no better than God.
        God cannot predict the future.”

        If you believe in God, then you know that God does not predict the future – God makes the future.

        God does not. He merely set the rules. What happens after that, well, not even God knows.

        He made the game, plays umpire, but doesn’t play the game.

        However, what are we doing on this blog when we speak of the dire consequences of the idiotic actions of our politicians? I do believe that all of us here understand that what our politicians are doing will cause a total collapse of our political system if we do nothing about it, and everyone (except those of you who profess to be anarchists) understand completely that this cannot be a good thing at all.

        Even anarchists know its not a good thing – cutting of an arm that is gangrene is unpleasant – but necessary – to save the body.

        I do believe, for our society to survive, we do need some form of government that is much less invasive and much less controlling along with a society that understands and advocates the importance of individual responsibility.

        One cannot maintain a good by using evil.

        As long as one agrees that an entity can attack non-violent people – it will always become tyranny.

        You cannot hold a principle that contradicts peace and freedom believing such a principle supports peace and freedom.

        “Greeks were republics – they went away too. Forgot them?” – They failed because they failed to support and defend their republic. That is why they disappeared.

        No, sir, that is not what happened.

        They fell as this republic falls – hubris and fatal domination. They attacked the neutral cities – and lost everything.

        Incited by the brilliant young Alcibiades, Athens resolved on the fatal Sicilian expedition.

        The expedition, planned on an unprecedented scale, and placed under the command of Alcibiades and Nicias, was dispatched in spite of the startling multilation of the Hermae, a sacriligious performance attributed to Alcibiades.

        It had hardly reached Sicily when he was recalled, but made his escape and spent some years in intriguing against Athens.

        The siege of Syracuse was progressing favourably, when the Spartan Gylippus was allowed to enter, and put new life into the defence.

        Disaster followed on disaster both by sea and land; finally, the whole Athenian force was either cut to pieces or surrendered at discretion, to become the slaves of the Syracusans, both Nicias and Demosthenes being put to death.

        Get some more one gallon milk jugs, my friend, we are going to need them – and a lot sooner than anyone may think . . . even me.

        Indeed. Start early and avoid the rush – my motto!

  24. T-ray

    BF, I can not keep up with you.

    Don’t worry, neither can I :)

    Any person or entity that can coerce me in any way and do so by claiming some “right” to do it is a form of government.

    Close enough.

    I exclude criminals from this list since they have no claim to a legal right to coerce me.

    Really big jump over a canyon.

    How did we get into ‘legal right’ to use violence – from your first sentence above?

    Can you fill in those steps? Where did the ‘legal’ right come from?

    I do not know how one would separate societal structure from government.

    How about not legitimizing the initiation of violence? We do that already for YOU, individually, right? You are a part of a society -today- that does that. You do not have the ‘right’ to attack someone.

    So where are you confused? We havea society we have today – that denies the use of initiation of violence and is structured? So why do you still need a government that claims that right?

    • Legal is probably the wrong word. Kings claim a divine right or a inhereted right. The original right either came from force or consent of the governed. Criminals only coerce by force and can not claim a right other than force.

      Why do we need a government? Who enforces the no violence on others rule? How do they enforce it without violence? Name me a society that has survived that does not have some form of government? The real issue is how to make that government as benign as possible. Anarchy is not a choice as the criminals will take charge.

      • T-Ray

        Legal is probably the wrong word. Kings claim a divine right or a inhereted right. The original right either came from force or consent of the governed. Criminals only coerce by force and can not claim a right other than force.

        So let’s destroy contradicts so we can understand things.

        You say:

        “..original right …came from force…”

        then you say

        “Criminals …not claim a right … other than force”

        Can you clarify what you are trying to say?

        Why do we need a government? Who enforces the no violence on others rule? How do they enforce it without violence?

        So, let’s go really slow here – you used ‘government’ again – in a claim.

        You defined government as “Any person or entity that can coerce me in any way and do so by claiming some “right”.

        You stated that any person or entity that uses just ‘force’ is criminal.

        So, let’s put what you said together – we need criminals that use force to protect us from criminals who use force.

        Can you see why those that support government appear very confused to me?

        Name me a society that has survived that does not have some form of government?

        My family.

        The real issue is how to make that government as benign as possible. Anarchy is not a choice as the criminals will take charge.

        By your own logic, the criminals are in charge.

        • Yes in many dictatorial countries, the criminals are incharge.

          But…

          You missed one line:

          “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

          Have we revoked our consent? If we have, then we should not vote, pay taxes, buy licenses, comply with any laws, or contribute in any fashion to the government.

          Family is not society, it is family.

          • But, they are still government.

            Thus, a regular complaint of mine.

            You have a definition that woefully incomplete.

            You use your incomplete definition to attempt to prove that government is a “good”, whereas if you use the whole definition, government is a “bad”.

            Again – a fallacy, sir.

            Consent: The question is not a revoke – the question is: When did you or I give it?

            I know I didn’t. When did you?

            Family is society. In fact, a sustainable society is built upon the foundation of family.

            • See the comment below Kent’s. I am getting tired and see my typing is degrading and the letters are getting blurred. Sorry for all the spelling errors. It has been fun for the last 2 days. Tomorrow is a work day, so as the garbage man said, I have to cleanup after the ones with too much time on their hands. Have a good night and hopefully we can do this again in the near future. :)

            • BF:

              A Family is not a society. You know full well that we are all talking here about the accepted definitions of society, as in large number of people who are not all related.

              Besides, the foundation of something can not be the something itself. It is either the foundation or it is the structure which rests upon it.

              Would be interested in your hypothesis that a sustainable society is built upon the foundation of family. Does this mean that without the foundation of family a society is NOT sustainable? And how do you define a family?

          • I do not now consent, nor have I ever. So there are no “just powers”.

            • While the government can coerce you to pay taxes and obey their rules, at least in this country, they have not coerced you to vote. I would postulate that votien is imlpied consent. So I would guess you have never voted?

            • I do not believe I used the terms good or bad. There however is bad government and not so bad government. It is a necessary evil. Again name one nation state that does not have one.

              I am getting beat up over the nuances of the definition of pragmatic above and then you equate family to society. They are not the same.

              • T-Ray:

                It was not my intent to “beat you up” over the nuances of pragmatism.

                I only want you to grasp that actions done for the sake of being what appear practicle are not done from a position supported by a philosophicaly defensible and moral base. As such they are subject to the “whim” of those who get to define what “practicle” means.

                Are you suggesting that we should ONLY take action that is not based on prinicples?

                The most glaring example of the outcome of such action is reflected by Bush II’s statement that I gave early this morning.

                We must also realize that “practicle” to government, especially a large centralized govt like our federal, means something entirely different than it does at the local or individual level.

                I urge you to explore the meaning of the word “rational” and then try to apply that to the situations you have described today. You see a rational person acts from principles that suppport their life, liberty, property and happiness. They would use logic to determine if their actions were consistent with their principles and thus their long term existence. They would also test their actions against what they know of reality and the true nature of things. For example, the fact that all socialist programs have failed would be a good indicator that such programs should be avoided at all cost in the future.

                Running up massive federal debts to fund programs that are destined to fail is “irrational”. From my own perspective it would also be immoral as it jeopardizes my liberty and freedom. Yet it can be “pragmatic” or “practicle” from the perspective of government itself.

                Sorry to keep beating on this horse but it is important for everyone to realize the danger of taking up a philosophy that says we must be “practicle” but not “principled”.

                Perhaps we will chase this rabbit around again someday.

                Until then,
                JAC

              • Once you claim ANY evil is “necessary”, you open the door to anything. No evil is EVER “necessary. If it truly IS necessary it can’t be evil. If it is evil, it can’t be necessary.

  25. T-Ray

    I do not believe I used the terms good or bad. There however is bad government and not so bad government. It is a necessary evil. Again name one nation state that does not have one.

    1) As I said, then, your definition that you provided and used is incomplete.

    Please offer another, sir.

    2) No such thing as necessary evil

    3) By definition a nation-state must have a government – that is the only way; a government must use violence upon its non-violent citizens so to enforce edicts.

    I am getting beat up over the nuances of the definition of pragmatic above and then you equate family to society.They are not the same.

    Society:
    a. The totality of social relationships among humans.
    (Fits a family)
    b. A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.
    (Fits a family)
    c. The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group.
    (Fits a family)
    2. An organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest: a folklore society; a society of bird watchers.
    3.
    a. The rich, privileged, and fashionable social class.
    b. The socially dominant members of a community.
    4. Companionship; company: enjoys the society of friends and family members.
    (Fits a family)

    It is not the definition of pragmatism that is in debate.

    It is the man who uses and hides behind pragmatism that is the debate.

  26. Wanted to get this copied to here before Fox takes it down and archives it.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/20/obama-stephanopoulos-spar-definition-tax/

    The other day on this site I visit that is full of lawyers, it was pointed out that if this is NOT a tax then it is clearly unconstitutional. Congress has no authority to impose other fees, just taxes.

    George should have been all over that one but I’m guessing he was taken back by the Pres’ response. Using a dictionary definition is now considered “a stretch”.

  27. T-Ray

    Lysander Spoon puts a powerful argument about consent.

    I offer it here;

    http://alvarezgalloso.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/no-treason-by-lysander-spoon-episode-two/

    ..but to summarize his argument….consent doesn’t exist when dealing with government.

  28. JAC

    As society is a concept – that is, you can’t show it to me, because all I see are people….a society exists solely in our mind.

    …thus, it can be constructed to be both a part and be the same.

    A family is a society. The society as a concept is scalable. A society is a family, and it is a group of families and a group of a group of families and so on.

    Family/Society/Sustainability.

    Yes, IMO, family is the cornerstone of sustainable society.

    Family:
    Two or more people who share goals and values, have long-term commitments to one another, and reside usually in the same dwelling place.

    All the members of a household under one roof.

    A group of persons sharing common ancestry.

  29. “The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers.

    Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.”

    ~ Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

  30. “You have no right to redefine the extent of your initiation of violence.
    Unless you can demonstrate Clear and Present Danger.” Demonstrate to whom and to what degree? The collective? The man? Someone I didn’t vote for? Laws I didn’t agree to? William Shatner’s yard stick? An early episode of Perry Mason? Burning bush? My own conscience.

    • 1) Demonstrate to society – they will judge you.

      2) To the degree beyond any doubt.

      3) It has nothing to do with law – it has everything to do with Right.

      4) …and yes, your own conscience.

      The action you take upon another gives everyone the right to act upon you the same way.

      Thus, you must make the justification of action incredibly well – least you give the right to others to destroy YOU.

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