Guest Commentary – Is the Government Murdering Us?

Alrighty, I know that the title above already has a few people shaking their head yes and a few other people shaking their head no and yet another group of people rolling their eyes. I will admit that I had to really sit and think about whether I would run this article or not. It certainly isn’t because of the source. The author is a valued contributor to SUFA and credible in what he finds. I struggled because I know this is a contentious subject. And I know that for some folks, the idea that there is a giant plan of evil somewhere is just too much to accept. In the end I decided that I would use the article because I have seen the effects of two different wars on my family. My father dealt with Agent Orange poisoning. I personally witnessed Gulf War Syndrome, although I still haven’t reached a conclusion as to whether I suffer from anything. I will offer my thoughts as one of the comments as soon as I have time.

I don’t run this as an endorsement of the idea that the government has a master plan to eradicate people. Quite the contrary, I think if such a plan existed or exists, it would be the work of a small group within the government or maybe even outside of it but with access. I remain, as yet unconvinced that this is even the case. There are a lot of things to think about when discussing this subject. More important, there are a lot of things that must be considered as alternative explanations for what we find to be factual results. But what I think is irrelevant in the end. I run this article because it is researched, presented well, and opens a discussion that is too often ignored because people are afraid to entertain the idea that something is amiss. I run this article because I really do believe that every voice deserves to be heard and evaluated (I am still disappointed that no one from the left has taken the time to write any articles and present them for publishing on here. I think it would be great to have some). I know G-Man to be a rational thinker, so I fail to see how he could reach the conclusions he does without reason. I really look forward to the discussions around this topic. I hope that challenges will be hardy and backed-up.

Is Government Murdering Us? Part 1: Veterans
by G-Man

For many years now I have wondered why I have the medical afflictions I have. For example, why my youngest daughter was born with epilepsy. I have also spent ample time pondering why so many of my fellow vets have died or fallen ill since returning from the Persian Gulf. I have not found a single answer to these questions, but many answers, that if proven to be true, could destroy the credibility (what little is left) of the U.S. Government. This is about Gulf War Illness; It’s possible causes, it’s cover-up, and the Governments failure to honor their agreement with the men and women who served this nation proudly and honorably. I will use the most credible evidence I can find, both in written form and video form, to build a case against the U.S. Government, that hopefully, the Folks here at SUFA can determine guilt or innocence.

Gulf War Illness, for many vets, is a very debilitating medical problem. To date, no cause has been determined, or at least no cause has been admitted to by those in the government responsible for determining such. I would like to discuss the possible causes that I have found, how they apply to GWI, and how they came to be a deadly aspect of so many lives. Here’s description of what GWI is from Wiki:

Gulf War syndrome (GWS) or Gulf War illness (GWI) affects veterans and civilians who were near conflicts during, or downwind of a chemical weapons depot demolition after, the 1991 Gulf War. A wide range of acute and chronic symptoms have included fatigue, loss of muscle control, headaches, dizziness and loss of balance, memory problems, muscle and joint pain, indigestion, skin problems, immune system problems, and birth defects. Roughly one in four of the 697,000 veterans who served in the first Gulf War are afflicted with the controversial disorder, a real condition with real causes and serious consequences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

This video is from 2007 and covers, in detail, the medical issues and causes that I will discuss. The video is somewhat long and you may want to view it during the slow parts of the day or days ahead.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/gulf-war-syndrome/

Desert Storm and Chemical/Biological Weapons:

As I write this, there is no absolute proof that Iraq used these agents against our forces. I was 50 KM or so inside Saudi Arabia during the Scud/Patriot duels. The closest impact was 1/4 of a mile to our north, causing a large crater next to our alert jets. Only minor damage was done and NO chem’s were detected. Our sensors only activated 6 times, for a short period of time near the end of the conflict. The wind was coming from the direction of Iraq. It is reported than 14,000 alarms activated for chem’s during this conflict, amazingly, the Government initially denied any contamination, only to later change their story several times, finally concluding that up to 100,000 troops could have been affected, mainly from the destruction of storage facilities.

It is possible that exposure to these toxic fumes was a complete mistake, and the air currents were not considered when the weapon depots containing them where blown up. It is also possible that exposure could be the sole cause of GWI, except for the fact that no chemical weapon depots were destroyed during the course of the second gulf war, and troops are still getting sick. Why then would the government try to deny this occurrence?

Some excerpts with link: For five years after the war, the Pentagon and the VA refused to admit that our troops had been exposed to chemical weapons, via the same sort of despicable delaying tactics our Vietnam vets were subjected to over their Agent Orange claims.

…clouds that blew over our troops when captured Iraqi chemical-warfare weaponry was destroyed by Army engineers.

So far, according to an April 2002 Department of Veterans Affairs report, an additional 7,758 Desert Storm vets have died while 198,716 vets have filed claims for medical and compensation benefits. Of the claims filed, 156,031 have been granted as service-connected, with more vets being designated casualties as each day passes. The 198,716 figure represents a staggering 28 percent of the vets – 696,579 – who fought in the Gulf War conflict!

http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourceFileView?file=Hackworth_091802.htm

These are Stats from 2002, 8 years ago. Here’s a news story from 2006:

Government: Gulf War Illness Doesn’t Exist

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213483,00.html

After everything I have read on this chemical exposure, I have concluded that it was not the sole cause of GWI, but quite possibly a trigger that acted with other entities.

Both Gulf Wars: The use of Uranium and Depleted Uranium weapons.

Depleted Uranium and uranium is used in providing weapons (bombs, tank shells, high caliber munitions) with a ballistic “tip” that is twice the density of lead. This allows the munitions to pierce steel armor, concrete and other hardened structures as if these were made of butter. In their unused munition condition, they have very low radioactivity. When used, the DU or UR will pulverize, entering and clinging to air molecules, dust, sand, buildings, etc. The bigger the munition, the more pulverized material, the more radioactive it is. We all know that exposure to anything radioactive is bad for us, here are some facts about these weapons:

1- The USA and UK continuously used Depleted Uranium weapons against the population and environment in Iraq from 1991 until today.

2- Occupation forces in Iraq intentionally denied and covered up the types, locations and amounts of weapons that were used to prevent taking measures which could reduce health damages resulting from LLR exposure.

3- Occupation forces prohibited UNEP, WHO and other international agencies to conduct any exploration programs to assess the health risks to the people of Iraq of these radioactive contaminants.

4- Forbidding the release of any casualty statistics by the health ministry in Iraq right after the occupation is part of the crime that has been continuously committed against Iraq and Iraqis.

5- Exploration programs and site measurements proved without a doubt that the existence of DU related radioactive contamination all over most of Iraq (except the northern area of Kurdistan).

6- Published epidemiological studies in Basrah introduced a clear correlation between DU related exposure to LLR and the multifold increase of malignancies, congenital malformations and multiple malformations in detected DU contaminated areas.

7- Other pathological and hematological studies indicated the existence of chromosomal and DNA aberrations and abnormalities in the 1991 Iraqi Gulf War veterans. Other studies proved their effects on lowering the activities of the human immune system in exposed individuals.

8- Iraqi researchers’ site measurements of 2000 revealed the fact that the Muthana governorate and Al-Samawa city were contaminated since 1991. This fact was proven by the Dutch troops in 2003, and then the American Guardsmen who served in that area after the invasion and confirmed exposure to DU contamination after coming back home by Dr. Drakovic.

9- Intentional continuous use of DU against the people and environment of Iraq is a crime against humanity due to its undifferentiated harmful health impacts on civilian long times after the military operations. Existing DU contamination in the surrounding environment is a continuous source of (LLR) exposure to civilians which can be considered systematic attacks on civilians in an armed conflict. Article 4 of the official regulations and Article 7 of the ICC.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3116

While my knowledge is short on the science of DU and exposure to it, I do know that our troops who have been in Iraq for lengthy periods of time are certainly subject to the worst case effects of this contamination. There is enough pulverized DU to equal 14,000+ Little Boys (the bomb that fell on Hiroshima) in Iraq. Is this a problem? The fact that many vets children are being born with many different defects, which is a result of GWI, I have concluded that exposure to the dust of deleted uranium and pure uranium tipped weapons should be considered as a main source of GWI.  With all the scientific knowledge of this, why would our government knowingly expose over 1.1 million Americans to this?  Let’s not forget that most of the population of Iraq breaths this everyday.  Is this not a crime?

Innoculations of all veterans

As any vet would know, we all turn into pincushions with the amount of vaccinations we were required to take. Here is a list of available vaccinations:

Vaccines Available in the US

Vaccine Type

  • Anthrax, Inactivated bacteria
  • BCG (for tuberculosis), Live Mycobacteria bovi
  • Diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis (DTaP or Tdap) Toxoids and inactivated bacterial components
  • DTaP plus Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate (DTaP-Hib)
  • Toxoids, inactivated whole bacteria, and bacterial polysaccharide conjugated to protein
  • DTaP-hepatitis B-polio (DTaP-HepB-IPV) Toxoids, recombinant viral antigen, and inactivated poliovirus
  • DTaP-IPV Toxoids, inactivated bacteria, and inactivated poliovirus
  • DTaP-IPV-Hib
  • Toxoids, inactivated bacteria, inactivated poliovirus, and bacterial polysaccharide conjugated to protein
  • Hepatitis A (HepA) Inactivated virus
  • Hepatitis B (HepB) Recombinant viral antigen
  • Hepatitis A and hepatitis B , Inactivated virus plus recombinant viral antigens
  • Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate (Hib) , Bacterial polysaccharide conjugated to protein
  • HbCV plus Hep B, Bacterial polysaccharide conjugate plus inactivated viral antigen
  • Herpes zoster , Live varicella virus
  • Human papillomavirus (HPV) , Noninfectious viruslike particles
  • Influenza, types A and B, Inactivated virus or viral components
  • Influenza, Live virus
  • Japanese encephalitis, Inactivated virus
  • Measles, Live virus
  • Measles and rubella, Live viruses
  • Measles and mumps, Live viruses
  • Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) Live viruses
  • Measles-mumps-rubella-varicella (MMRV), Live viruses
  • Meningococcal, polysaccharide (MPSV4), Bacterial polysaccharides of serotypes A/C/Y/W-135
  • Meningococcal, conjugate (MCV4), Bacterial polysaccharides of serotypes A/C/Y/W-135 conjugated to diphtheria toxoid protein
  • Mumps, Live virus
  • Pneumococcal, polysaccharide (PPV), Bacterial polysaccharides of 23 pneumococcal types
  • Pneumococcal, conjugate (PCV), Polysaccharides of 7 types, conjugated to diphtheria toxin
  • Poliovirus (IPV), Inactivated viruses of all 3 serotypes
  • Rabies, Inactivated virus
  • Rotavirus, Live virus
  • Rubella, Live virus
  • Smallpox, Live vaccinia virus
  • Tetanus, Inactivated toxin (toxoid)
  • Tetanus and diphtheria toxoids adsorbed (Td)‡ or diphtheria-tetanus (DT), Inactivated toxins (toxoids)
  • Tuberculosis (see BCG)
  • Typhoid, Capsular polysaccharide
  • Typhoid, Live-attenuated vaccine
  • Varicella, Live virus
  • Yellow fever, Live virus

There is much controversy about immunizations and vaccinations, at this time, there have been no admissions that these are a single cause of the problems. There are, however, more than just whats on this list that are required by our servicemembers. I certainly have concerns as to what is actually in these vaccinations.  It’s known that they may contain mercury, alluminum and Squaline, but what else could be hiding in there?

Military Experimentation

Lastly, vets and current active duty being used for human testing without their knowledge.

We’ve all seen the old videos of atomic testing, so it’s a given that the troops have been used as test subjects. The most recent findings are even more disturbing. Are our troops used for human experiments without their knowledge?

Dr. Garth L. Nicolson, Ph.D., is a Professor of Internal Medicine and Professor of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. He is also the Chief Scientific Officer for the Institute for Molecular Medicine in Huntington Beach, California, and has personally examined almost two-hundred veterans suffering from Gulf War Syndrome.

During those examinations, Dr. Nicolson found that nearly half of the veterans were infected with an unusual microorganism called mycoplasma fermentans (incognitus strain). In almost half of the vets examined these exceptionally tiny and primitive bacteria were found deep within the blood leukocytes–the white blood cells that comprise the most aggressive part of the body’s immune system machinery. “This microorganism,” Nicolson explains, “is similar to a bacterium without a cell wall and, although mycoplasmas are often found at superficial sites in humans, such as in the oral cavity, they are rarely found in the blood.”

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/arc_features/medical/medical_experiments01-98.html

So how does a microorganism associated with the HIV virus end up in the bloodstream of so many soldiers?  Were they unknowingly used for secret tests?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. In compiling all of this information, I intentionally avoided any government / government funded studies, to include the U.N. and the WHO. I have also gave little from the MSM, as I have more evidence that they are part of the cover-up, rather than reporting the truth. I made a specific effort to use sources that would provide unbiased information, that can be reviewed logically. The truth, involving anything the government does, is a very difficult thing to obtain!

Looking at all the possible causes of GWI, with chemical weapon exposure being the least likely, the use of depleted uranium and uranium tipped munitions and the nermerous vaccinations with few people know what is actually in them, I have concluded that the government has knowingly done a great wrong to the very people that protect them and us. I do not equate this to some wild conspiracy theory, this is really happening!

I have many questions, is government knowingly murdering our servicemembers? How can those responsible be held accountable? Why would government do this? How can the vets fight back against an enemy that hides behind white coats and government titles?

Could it be that weakening the strongest and youngest vets has an ulterior motive, one that leads to total tyranny?

Or could it be that they only care about their agenda and power?

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Comments

  1. As I can’t post from work, I always follow via e-mail. Hope everyone can gain further knowledge throughout the day(s) ahead!

    Peace and Live Free!

    G!

  2. Ellen Spalding says:

    Good Friday morning to everyone!

    Well I see this as another example of not taking care of the people who are defending our country. I have a good friend who was also in this Gulf War. He and his wife have four kids now, three have disabilites. I have done alot of reading on syndrone not only on vets but on their children. I have one article that I have researched that I see as a good example of what is happening here.

    Ellen

    http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Gulf-Children-Defects.htm

  3. Ray Hawkins says:

    @G! – thanks for the article G-Man. I would be interested in hearing from some of the other military folks who have Gulf experience – thoughts? Experiences?

    A few other random thoughts:

    1. There were hundreds/thousands of non-military types in the theater – contractors, government workers, CIA, so on and so forth – why do we not hear from them? Why does it seem we only hear of this from the enlisted folks?

    2. What of our allies? Similar issues? Reports?

    I don’t know that our government is intentionally murdering our own people as part of some grand conspiracy – I often think of the military as somewhat separate from the government and this is a good example of why. Not doing good by the very people that provide and defend our freedom must be seen as one of the most horrible things imaginable.

    • I’m also wondering about others afflicted that would have been in the area, plus natives to the area like Iraqi and/or Saudi’s. Do you know of any reports on these?

      You raise many good points, G-Man and thank you for the article and bringing it to our attention. Will follow along and learn today.

    • Ray

      I clipped this from one of G-man’s listed articles.

      ” In personal research stimulated by his illness and perceived betrayal by his country, Dr. Larry Goss has pieced together information about the Gulf War and its pursuant illness that paints a startling and ominous, but believable, picture.

      Of the twenty-eight Gulf War coalition forces, Goss said, the military cadre of twenty-seven of those nations have contracted GWI. The only country that claims no infected personnel is France. Is it just coincidence that France is also the only member of the coalition that refused to allow their soldiers to receive vaccinations?

      Dr. Goss, in treating Gulf War veterans with GWI, discovered that a one-two punch of the anti-viral drug, Famvir and the antibiotic Doxycycline was quite effective in their treatment–so much so that Dr. Nicolson’s Institute for Molecular Medicine has included it in its recommended therapy. What else Goss uncovered was that the French, “before their military even left their ports to go to the theater, were giving their troops Doxycycline–500mg twice a day. They were giving them so much that these guys were vomiting and messing their pants” from reaction to the drug.

      Were the French the “control group” in an insidious study?

      “What did they know,” Goss questioned, “how did they know it and when did they learn it?” In addition, he said, “some U.S. units were ordered to take Cipro–an appropriate antibiotic for mycoplasma.” Veterans told Dr. Goss that “the medics in their units pulled up in the back of their Humm-Vs and started shoveling out cases of Cipro, and said ‘fill your pockets and start taking it twice a day.’ The next day they got hit with their first Scud attack–and then two weeks later they were told to turn in any remaining Cipro. Other U.S. units in the theater,” Goss added, “got no Cipro. Double-blind study–perhaps?”

    • Hi Ray :)

      Finally able to answer you questions.

      As far as non-military, I am aware of a coractors website that tracks cancer numbers. But civilians are much harder to get this kind of info about. They do not have the resources that vets have, such as vet organizations and advocacy groups. I would imagine that civilians who were over there are not permitted to speak on the matter. I would like to hear from one that may have had to sign a non-disclosure agreement that would prevent any discussion.

      As far as allies, JAC posted an accurate picture, Many British and Australian articles are available online as well. If you wish I can post some links.

      I will continue to add to this as time goes on. I have much more that I didn’t include due to the articles size.

      Peace!

      G!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Thanks G – look forward to additional parts if this becomes a series. I don’t live my life with a lot of regrets – but one I do have is never having served (a lost appointment to West Point due to vision, a USMC recruiter who had his recruit in the bag and f’d it up, and a later dance with the idea as I tried to figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up). At any rate – deep down inside I have the utmost respect for those who served – at the end of the day there is a lot we owe to them – the least of which is the truth. I have been told many time that there are things that the average Joe citizen should not know / does not need to know for it would cause great uproar, blah blah blah. I guess everyone has secrets – I just don’t think this should be one of them.

  4. Hi G-Man,

    I haven’t followed GWI much, so thank you for the information. You ask: Why would government do this? The answer I come up with is ‘dead veterans don’t collect expensive benefits from the government’. I expect to see a similiar situation when Obama(doesn’t)Care is fully functional. Dead old people don’t collect expensive benefits. Quietly letting the entitled masses die off is so much cheaper than paying out on those empty promises. It seems the government has learned a money saving lesson from the insurance companies.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      I think it is more a case of sheer recklessness & incompetence if it is truly the case – it isn’t as though our veterans would live high on the hog to begin with – so subtracting from next to nothing does not leave you with much. I have also never thought of the military as wont to reduce expenditures – it is usually the complete opposite.

      • The way I understand it, CONGRESS sets the miltary’s budget, not the military.

        I’m not too sure about that incompetance and reckless claim. If that were the case than than a sizable portion of legislation should work out in the little guy’s favor, but somehow, it never does. It always works out to the politcians and there money supplying supporters. I’m sure I’m just wrong because the middle class has been expanding for years and getting wealthier by the day.

      • I would tend to agree with Ray on this point. Military benefits aren’t a lot. They aren’t nothing, but they aren’t enough to be worth the risk of being found to have intentionally killed off veterans in order to reduce expenditures.

        As for this being a case where the little guy is not the focus of legislative behavior, I would answer that when is the little guy EVER the focus of the legislature. Meaning this is like every other legislative case, favoring corporations and lobbyists to the detriment of the little guy. In other words, it does nothing to back up a claim that this offers any sort of proof towards intentional acts.

        • USW,

          First, thanks for all your help, and for putting this on the site! :)

          Proving “intent” to do harm in this case versus proving “knowledge” that harm will occur, is equally sufficient. The drunk driver that gets behind the wheel and kills a family of 4, is just as guilty as the armed robber that stabs his victim in the heart. Both killed, and had knowledge that it could occur, despite that both may have had no intentions of doing harm.

          G!

          • G-Man,
            Proving “intent” to do harm is not the same as proving “knowledge” that harm will occur, especially in war. War is a dirty business, and when you go to war, you’re pretty much assured some troops will be injured or killed.

            If “knowledge that harm will occur” is the standard, then all war could be considered a conspiracy to kill troops.

            For the vaccines, are troops required to get all the vaccines in your list, or are those ones that are available in the US?

            How would you feel if the government didn’t require vaccines for troops, and then there was an outbreak of measles that disabled many troops? This could put all other troops at risk because the medical services would be busy treating measles and the remaining troops would have reduced capabilities because of many missing members.

            I can’t say if Gulf War Illness is real or if it just represents a group of illinesses related to exposure to chemical/biological weapons, LLR, and other by-products of war. To me, the affects of all of these need to investigated and proper treatments determined for all vets.

            • Todd,

              Glad you spoke up as well! I did not make this a partisian political issue, just an issue that is very real.

              I, as many others, are familiar with the repercussions of war, that’s not the question nor the answer.

              The whole concept is the medical issues associated with the service members time in the area called the war zone. I’m guessing, that you did not view any of the videos provided, as most think they are just propaganda. Might I suggest you view them, and comment on what you see.

              This subject is not a left or right political bunch of bullshit that we have all been engaged in. I won’t go there on this!

              Now to address your comments.

              you said: Proving “intent” to do harm is not the same as proving “knowledge” that harm will occur, especially in war. War is a dirty business, and when you go to war, you’re pretty much assured some troops will be injured or killed.

              G said: You missed the whole point. This is not about “combat” with an enemy.

              you said: If “knowledge that harm will occur” is the standard, then all war could be considered a conspiracy to kill troops.

              G says: Knowledge that harm will occur…. in battle with the enemy, then you words hold true. This isn’t about the enemy combatants and the battles that take place. This should be quite clear to you, you are intelligent!

              You said: How would you feel if the government didn’t require vaccines for troops, and then there was an outbreak of measles that disabled many troops?

              G says: I have refused all vaccines since 1988, I haven’t had a common cold since. No flu, no illness at all. My issues are consistant with GWI.

              You said: I can’t say if Gulf War Illness is real or if it just represents a group of illinesses related to exposure to chemical/biological weapons, LLR, and other by-products of war. To me, the affects of all of these need to investigated and proper treatments determined for all vets.

              G says: I agree, my reason for the article is that it is not getting properly investigated or treated. Agent Orange revisited!

              Knowledge is power! It’s the answers to the truth that keeps those in power from resolving this!

              Peace !

              G!

          • I agree. As you know I support the idea that they had knowledge that bad things were happening. I don’t know that to be the case, but I readily admit that it is a very plausible scenario. I simply have not yet seen enough evidence to claim that they intentionally introduced something that would cause this. That doesn’t make them any less culpable in my opinion. But I do differentiate between causing the harm and not acting to stop the harm. Both are bad, one would bring down the government if proven, the other would cause many to question the government’s intentions and worth.

            Again, I just want to say that I am not arguing on behalf of the government here. But I will require anyone who claims that it was done intentionally to offer me some reasoning for their belief. Being challenged is the only way to find out the strength of your position.

            USW

        • I didnt say it was evidence of intention. G-Man summed it up well.

          But if your right, then why are insurance companies accused of intentionally letting people die so they don’t have to pay cliams? Is that a bogus claim? I thought that the insurance companies took all your money and then let you die if they could get away with it, right? Why do they deny claims when people exceed the limits? Do they think people will instantly be cured? Of course not. See, if the insurnace companies are guilty of letting people die lfor money, is it so hard to believe the government is capable of the same? This, btw, is the same government that says abortion doesn’t end a human life.

          • Cyndi,
            In the past week or two, you’ve complained about:

            1. Your high homeowners insurance premiums
            2. Government run insurance and you said you’d rather take your chances with private insurance
            3. Insurance companies take all your money and then let you die if they could get away with it

            So, which is it? Do you still want to take your chances with private insurance?

            Insurance companies don’t take all your money and then let you die if they can get away with it. That tends to lead to bad publicity which will sink any insurance company faster than bad underwriting or actually paying claims.

            Believe it or not, most insurance companies consider paying claims their most important function. That’s the one thing their customers will remember the most, and if they screw that up they will lose customers very fast. The problem with health insurance is that most people do not have a real option of shopping for the best insurance company. Most are limited to the options offered by their employer.

            Why do they deny claims when people exceed the limits?

            Because insurance is a contract. You agreed to pay certain premiums and they agreed to pay certain benefits up to the limits of the policy. That’s called capitalism. I thought you liked capitalism?

            Do they think people will instantly be cured? Of course not.

            Correct. Curing you is your doctor’s responsibility. Paying claims per the terms of your policy is the insurance company’s responsibility.

            See, if the insurnace companies are guilty of letting people die for money, is it so hard to believe the government is capable of the same?

            Since insurance companies are not guilty of letting people die for money, I guess the government isn’t either. ;)

            • Todd,

              Other than the fact that your comments are clustered with contradictions, Why do you find pleasure in attacking women! Oddly, your opinion is that insurance companies can’t get the job done, so we all need the Govt. to step in! When someone agrees with the opinion that the insurance industry is screwed up, you attack that point. You are only confusing yourself, as both are screwed up. You want government, who’s killed millions of people, versus insurance companies, who have killed how many?

              While a thousand would be an answer, it cannot compare.

            • Todd and USW,

              I do not hate the insurance companies, nor do I beleive they kill people. I was simply repeating a Leftard claim about insurance companies. So it seems you missed my sarcasim and wasted your time on an explaination I didn’t require. Notice in the past I’ve said that I’d rather take my chances with the insurance company. I stand by that.

              Now for the intent part. If I’m driving down the street and I see a pedestrian get run over, and probably killed by a hit and run driver, but don’t stop to assist, I’m pretty sure I’d be charged with a crime. I wouldn’t have killed the pedestrian, but I acted in a manner that could have contributed to their death. I’m pretty sure the court wouldn’t look kindly upon me. I believe the government is doing the same thing with vetrans, and will do the same to senior citizens once the health care take over is complete. Dead people don’t collect Social Security and don’t need expensive medical treatment. But, hey, if you believe I’m wrong, fine. If you believe the government cares about you and has your best interest in mind, go for it. I don’t trust the government. I believe that the legislation is written in way that the advantage is with the government and against the people. If I’m wrong, then I don’t have any problems and my life will be better than I anticpated. If I’m right, I’ll have saved myself alot of grief.

              You think what you will and I’ll think what I will. Whatever will be, will be.

              • What makes you think I trust government? Or that I have said government is right in the way they are handling it. My only contention was that I haven’t seen any proof that the government knowingly attempted to kill veterans through these methods. I completely agree that they are at fault.

                You are correct, I didn’t recognize the sarcasm. I merely took it at face value, which would have led to you contradicting yourself.

                As for your scenario, there is no law that requires you stop and help in that situation. Witness the many videos of heinous crimes or accidents where pedestrians continue to walk past a dying or injured persons. None are charged with anything. You are free to ignore the person who got ran over and go about your business. Perhaps there are some states that have a law requiring that you stop and help, but I don’t know of any.

              • Greetings USW,

                I think Florida, where my house is, has a law addressing that. But even if there are no laws, people who fail to assist are judged harshly in court of public opinion.

                If you’ve never seen proof of the government knowingly killing off veterans, how can you be sure either way? I don’t have proof either and probably never will. No one has proof of insurances companies knowingly killing policy holders yet the accusations fly, and demands that the government do something are made. The government is going to do SOMETHING wheather we like it or not, even without proof that the insrance companies are deliberately killing people off. So if we assume that the charges against the insurance companies are true, is it so hard to believe the government is doing the same thing already with veterans and will do the same to the rest of use once the power grab is done?

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Cyndy,

                You wrote: “If you believe the government cares about you and has your best interest in mind, go for it.”

                So does that mean you support a public option!??
                :)

              • Nope. It means if you want to place yourself at the mercy of one of the biggest buearacracies in all of human history be my guest. I’ve noticed that most believe that bueauracracy serves them and their best interest. I believe that the primary objective of any organization is the survival of said organization, which makes self preservation the primary interest. If the organization places its own interest ahead of you, can you expect that all its actions will serve you well?

                Question: How do you outrun a hungry grizzly bear?
                Answer: You don’t. You just make sure the you outrun the other guy.

                Our bankrupt government, with its corrupt political and ruling class is like a hungry grizzly. If you don’t think so, that’s fine with me. I prefer that my co-citizens think that hungery grizzly is really a cuddly stuffed teddy-bear. Really, I do. It makes my odds of escape a lot better.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                The concept behind a public option is to create just that – an option.

                You say you do not support a public option, but that if I desire to place myself within this bureaucacy I should. So why not support a public option and allow me to choose to join?

                As for insurance companies themselves: I don’t believe insurance companies are deliberately acting to kill people off. In most cases they are honoring their contracts. I have no problem with a company refusing to pay after an individual hits their limit; that’s completely fair and understandable. I have a problem with those instances where an insurance company denies claims that should be paid. I have a problem with an insurance company with refuses to cover someone due to a pre-existing condition. I have a problem with an insurance company denying future coverage due to a minor error in an individual’s application from 10+ years ago that is suddenly found once the individual actually finds themselves in a situation where they need to make a claim. Insurance companies are not evil; they are doing what they are meant to do – earn a profit.

              • Good Morning Buck!
                Strange how the healthcare debate has led to you to defend the health insurance industry. I thought that they were the problem that is the cause of the need for reform. What I find even more misleading is that this industry is ALREADY regulated by the individual states, and yet so many say it’s broke, under that very control, and that want government to control it to a much greater extent. I guess it’s true, when people make the same choices and expect a different result, they are insane.

                G!

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Hey G! Hope you’ve had a good weekend.

                I’ve never argued that the health insurance industry is evil. They do exactly what they were set up to do – make a profit. My problem with the health care system as it currently stands is the lack of choice many people have (for instance, I live in market with a number of choices, but if I go off my employer-based coverage I would wind up paying a lot more for the same coverage) as well as the ability of insurance companies to do the things I’ve mentioned above. I strongly believe having a public OPTION will go a long way and help a lot of people – it could create more choice for people and help to drive down premiums in many markets. I also strongly believe in reforms to force insurance companies to not be allowed to deny coverage due to preexisting conditions and to pay the claims they should under their own contracts.

              • Buck,

                Weekend has been great, other than the damn snow, LOL.

                I would ask thet you go down to post #31. While I agree with your point on pre-existing conditions, maybe you should look at how the government really deals with it!

                G!

          • Cyndi,

            A couple of thoughts. First, there is a large difference in the idea that the government has allowed veterans to die rather than properly dealing with the situation, and claiming that the government intentionally did something to troops in order to kill them. You offered that the legislation around this topic is not geared to help the little guy. I agree, but no legislation is geared to help the little guy. Therefore, since this legislation is no different than any other legislation, I submit that it equals nothing in the way of proof of intentional action. That is not to say that I believe the government is without fault. At a minimum they have failed the vets. But I am not yet convinced that they have intentionally killed veterans.

            I agree with Todd that the insurance companies are there to fulfill a contract that you have entered into with them. At the point where they have honored that contract, they are done, and rightly so. That is the way the free market is supposed to work. In fact, that is half of the problem with the health reform we see. The government is attempting to paint the insurance companies as evil for sticking to their contract instead of going beyond it. As a result, government is attempting to pass legislation that will force the insurance companies to either make a new type of contract or be forced to go beyond what the contract requires. Is it nice that they stop paying when the limit is reached? No. But it is ethical, because they have honored what they signed.

            We have to be careful here Cyndi. You are entering the realm of having a contradiction. Either we believe in the free market and capitalism, in which case the insurance companies are correct to honor the contract and nothing more. OR you believe that the insurance companies are the evil problem, in which case you believe that the free market and capitalism have failed, which would justify the Democrats plan to take over. It cannot be both ways.

            Just a thought.

            USW

            • Hi USW!

              Hope today finds you and the family in good health and spirits. :)

              When I read your reply to CP, I felt that something was amiss with your premise of: OR you believe that the insurance companies are the evil problem, in which case you believe that the free market and capitalism have failed, which would justify the Democrats plan to take over.

              Since the insuance industry in this case is regulated by state governments, how can the industry be placed in the catagory of “free market”? In the free market, there would be no government regulation, therefore, I would surmise that the industries failures are a result of government control, not a failure of a free market entity.

              Peace Brother!

              G!

            • I have a high deductible policy with Blue Cross – think its 3 million lifetime limit – and a smaller group policy that has a $100,000 limit.

              Except for the fact that they (insurance companies) screwed up my credit history for the rest of my life by using the confusion of which one was liable so by the time they paid I was in collection. The 1st time it happened, I realized that I would never clear it up so just stopped worrying about it !

  5. Judy Sabatini says:

    Morning All

    Great article G. Outside of you that went to the Gulf and was probably exposed to chemicals, I have to say, it makes you wonder sometimes, rally.

    You talked about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War and all the people who were exposed to that. We have a friend who was in Vietnam and was exposed to it, and some 30 years later, it started to service, and now he has nothing but problems. He has been so very sick at times, not knowing if he as going to live or die. He’s been having one problem after another, and from going to the doctor and getting tested, according to him that’s what the doctor told him. He feels like he only has maybe another 5 years left to live, and he’s the same age as me. He looks like he’s at 15 years older than me. He said when he learned he was exposed to Agent Orange, he was very angry that ” THEY ” never said anything at the time when he got home.

    BTW, He was a tail gunner in the helicopters and was shot in the foot twice in the same spot, and half his heel is missing.

    Now, I kind of wonder if my youngest son was exposed to anything while he was in Iraq and if he’ll have any problems when he gets older if there was any chemicals still floating around or was in the ground while he was there.

    Have a great day.

    Judy

  6. Angry, I am, at this article. Why? I am a Vietnam Veteran, I have a lot of friends who are Vietnam Veterans.

    WW1 – Many veterans returned to the U.S. after that war and had many health problems which were eventually blamed on the use of poisonous gasses used in that war. Very little was done to help those veterans. There were a lot of stories about war veterans going berserk and getting put into mental institutions. This problem was eventually termed “shell shock”.

    WW2 – Many veterans returned with many health and mental problems. Got same treatment as WW1 veterans. These problems were eventually diagnosed as “combat fatigue”.

    Korea – See WW1 & WW2 above.

    Vietnam – Add agent orange to the mess, and coin something new . . . “Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or PTSD”

    Gulf War – add burning oil wells by the thousands to all of the above.

    Has anyone ever taken a real good look at all this evidence? HELL NO!

    What does this evidence point to? Now I need all of you to sit back and just think about this before you scream that I am some kind of nutcase that was missed at muster this morning.

    Take a normal man, remove him from his relatively safe civilian environment, teach him to walk and talk like a soldier, shoot a gun and other little nefarious things and make him think that he will survive this nasty little business called war and send him off to it and if he does survive he returns with memories of things that no one – and I do MEAN no one on this Earth! – should ever have to experience or remember, and then after all this expect this person to return to what we now term as a “normal” existence? Just who the Sam hell are you kidding?

    It has been my experience that no amount of training or preparation (I was in the Marine Corps for seven years before I went to Vietnam and I almost freaked out during my first firefight) can ever get one ready to experience war. I mean that. Some of us can handle all this stuff better than others. I have a cousin that was in the Army special forces in Vietnam and when he came back he lost himself in booze and drugs. I just became an alcoholic (been sober now for over twenty years).

    We need to start telling our military people the absolute truth about what they will face when they go to war. Show them the pictures – in glorious living color – of what the guy next to them will look like when he gets his head blown off. Show them what happens when a person gets hit with shrapnel or a high velocity bullet. Don’t hold anything back.

    My thought on this is that if one goes into war knowing what one is getting into, then one will have a better chance at handling it mentally if one actually survives it. Then maybe, just maybe, there won’t be so many oddball illnesses after the next war.

    Just my not-so-humble opinion.

    • PapaDawg,

      I’m sorry you had to go through all that. :(

      Maybe the politicians should have to look at those photos you mentioned……

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      Hi PapaDawg

      Our youngest son was also in the Marines, 2003-2007. When he did his first tour in Iraq, I’m sure he thought he was prepared for what was going to happen, but little did he know what was going to happen.

      He was in that heavey firefighting in Najaf when it broke out, fighting Mutaqa Al Sadar and his men. He said it was either them or him, yes, he killed about 4 of them, and he saw 5 of his buddies get killed that day, and yes, that affected him like no one would believe.

      When he came home, he told us some of what happened that day, what he saw, how it felt to kill somebody else, and that he thought at the time, it didn’t bother him at all. But, 2 years ago, he started going through a depression he never went through before, and couldn’t understand why or what was causing that, until he talked to somebody about it. He told that person what happened over there, things he saw, things he did, some things he said he’ll never be able to talk about it for as long as he lives.

      The person told him that it’s a possibility that everything he went through then was just now starting to surface because he had put it in the back of his mind, and that something must have happened in recent times to rigger his memory and that’s what was causing his depression. He continues to talk with this person and it seems to have helped him out a great deal, now he’s not depressed anymore, but is a lot happier and can accept what happened then. The person he has been talking with and went through the same thing, is a Vietnam Vet that works at his university and they have become very close friends. In fact, he belongs to the Veterans club at his university.

      Our son said, that unless you have been in the military, and experienced combat, you will never be able to understand what they go through and what they have to live with for the rest of their lives. And I believe that knowing what my son had to go through, twice. Two tours in Iraq for him.

      Judy

    • PapaDawg,

      I’m sorry if this article pissed you off! My apologies for doing so, although unintended.

      My purpose of the article was to address the physical problems that service members are experiencing that are not enemy induced. I’ve always felt that the psychological problems experienced by veterans should be discussed in a more private venue, and I don’t feel this is that venue.

      I agree that all service members should get a very open look at war, before they are shipped off. I don’t think that will change much, because pictures and movies could never emulate the true emotions of the experience. Between movies and video games, most youngsters are getting plenty of visual effects.

      What our troops are not given enough info on is the non-combat related issues they face. In fact, the government simply denies these dangers, and denies needed healthcare to resolve those issues until far too much time has gone by to make a difference.

      Peace my Friend!

      G!

      • I purposefully did not document any of my personal experiences here, as I feel that would deter from what I was trying to get across. I have had a son born with multiple birth defects, and many of my grandchildren are ADHD and other problems. I do not blame any of that on what I might have been subject to in Vietnam or anywhere else I was sent.

        The things we use in war are dangerous, not only to our enemy but to those who mishandle them. Most commanders in `Nam disregarded the warnings about Agent Orange. We now know the results. Most people do not know that LSD was invented by the U.S. Army in WW2 and we experimented on our own soldiers without telling them what it was that they were being subject to. The results of those experiments led to the decision to not use LSD as a weapon against our enemy.

        During the “Have Blue” experiments at area 51 we subjected those civilian employees who built and maintained those planes to some rather exotic chemicals that to this day no one knows what the ramifications will be even though several of those employees died a very horrible death.

        Most PTSD (or whatever you want to call it) is caused by extreme stress – I have seen it in some police officers who had to kill someone unexpectedly – due to not being informed enough of what your “job” may entail. Often PTSD is manifested in an actual physical illness for which attending doctors have no explanation for.

        Thinking that our government needs to bend over backwards after the fact, to me, is just plain wrong. I believe that a lot of these problems can be avoided by proper preparation in advance. No, it is not “movies & video games”, it is actual combat footage of the firefight in progress and it should be done to each and every recruit during his/her basic training. The more gory and graphic the better. I think that this approach, along with other means of informing, would go a very long way in preventing a lot of these mental and physical problems.

        Don’t get me wrong, I was never angry with you, just with this so-called system we have all been a part of.

        • PapaDawg,

          I took a step back to answer your post, You certainly deserve a well thought reply. First, my heart goes out to you and your family for the difficulties that all of you have endured.

          I will try to address your post with logic, not emotions, which is hard for me, so please bare with me.

          PD said: I do not blame any of that on what I might have been subject to in Vietnam or anywhere else I was sent.

          G says: Only you know the history of your family tree, if these issues were prevelant within your family histories (as in both mom and pop) than your statement would stand correct. As in my case, there is no history, so I search for answers.

          PD says: Often PTSD is manifested in an actual physical illness for which attending doctors have no explanation for.

          G says: I agree! However manifested illnesses due to PTSD are impossible to pass on to the next generation. Genetics, or genetic changes are passed on, not mental issues due to stress.

          PD says: Thinking that our government needs to bend over backwards after the fact, to me, is just plain wrong.

          G says: If the government engaged in “known” actions, that put you and future generations in peril, they should shit gold to make it right. If the enemy that we engaged did it, then I would accept it as a part of war.

          PD says: The more gory and graphic the better. I think that this approach, along with other means of informing, would go a very long way in preventing a lot of these mental and physical problems.

          G says: If I was uninformed and had no experience I would agree. But I am experienced, and no movie, no video game, no pictures and no training could have adaquately prepared me for the real thing. It all comes down to the individual capacity to handle it.

          I help those with the mental aspects all the time. I still have some minor issues myself (sleeping, gunfire in the neighborhood ect.)
          I help people overcome the more difficult issues, and am very successful at it, because I understand the problem.

          In closing, PTSD can’t cause cancer, it can’t cause defects or other problems in the next generation, it is an individual issue.

          PapaDawg, you are a great person, who served honorably, only you can find the real answers to the issues that you deal with. My heart goes out to you, and to the masses who are walking in your shoes, but don’t know why. I’m hoping to help answer some of those peoples questions. The patriot warriors, who cared enough to do what they had to do deserve that!

          Peace my Friend!

          G!

          • G, I think that in war (and preparing for war) we – and this includes the government – do things and use things that we do not fully understand, IE; Atom bombs, nerve gases, LSD, agent orange, and the exotic chemicals that are used to manufacture stealth aircraft. I think, and you probably already know this, that in the rush to out-tech an enemy we ignore proper research and development protocols (which are time-consuming).

            When I was a working cop, I worked many drug related cases and as a result I attended many classes at different colleges about drug manufacture and there uses. More than once I asked those professors about what changes to our reproductive systems and things like that. Some of the answers that I got scared the crap out of me. I used to tell those who I interviewed about what these things did to them and their future generations – and most of them just didn’t care.

            So these chemicals that are used in making explosives and such that those of us go to war are exposed to on a continuing basis could cause changes to our basic DNA which we pass on to our succeeding generations. So how do we hold governments accountable for that when we cannot even guess what the eventual outcome will be?

            FYI – Members of my family, as near as I can tell, have been involved in every conflict that this country has been in since the war between the states. It is a proud tradition that my children and some of my grandchildren continue with today. We have no complaints. Some day I will talk to you about my 20 year fight with the VA to get appropriate disability compensation and care for one of my brothers who served in WW2 and Korea.

            Individual peace comes with knowing that one has done what is right and just.

            • Good day to you Sir!

              You are a great motivator! I certainly agree with what you say, and yes, it’s all just part of serving in a deadly environment. I highly doubt that anyone in governemnt will be held accountable for anything. My goal was to try and prove that our government is knowingly, by use of DU, and/or vaccinations that are contaminated, sending our troops to their ultimate death, and not at the hand of the enemy.

              If anything can come of this discussion, it will open the eyes of the many vets and non-vets that read and post here, so that enough noise is made to keep future vets from the same 20 year fights that you and many others endured. Early treatment and screening can save thousands of lives, and could provide testing that could determine the chances of child defects before conception.

              I believe my intentions are good and just, I’ve learned from the past, a bad past, that many fellow vets like yourself, have suffered needlessly because of a government did not hold up their end of taking care of vets like they should have. If tommorrows vet can avoid that lengthy fight, we have achieved something of great importance to future generations.

              Peace my Friend!

              G!

  7. Bottom Line says:

    G-Man,

    Are you nuts?

    OUR government wouldn’t do something like THAT.

  8. G-Man…. read the article and have some thoughts. As a Veteran of Vietnam my experience was as follows: Our area of operation centered around the provincial capitol of Ban Me Thout in the Central Highlands in II Corps. Our full operations extended northward to Pleiku and Kontum to the Cambodian border. There were areas that were sprayed with the herbicide Agent Orange, Agent Blue, and Agent White. All with different strengths depending on the area. The intent was to strip the tress of foliage to prevent hiding places for the enemy. You could walk through an area days and even months afterward and still pick up the agent in your bloodstream. I have been exposed to and contracted the variety Agent Orange. My children have no known birth defects of any kind although I know that there are some. The AO has affected my bone structure in my mouth where my teeth are concerned and I have it in my bloodstream. I sometimes will break out in small areas with a skin condition that sloughs off like dead or dry skin and it travels around. Never on my face or scalp but my hands and feet. I have to be tested for Diabetes and cancer on a regular basis. All of this testing is done by the VA. I have refused disability payments because I am not disabled. I am eligible for 10% disability simply because I have it. I do and will accept any hospital treatment as a result of any ailments from the disease and should I become disabled to where I can not care for myself, then I will accept it.

    I have heard the stories and seen the movie Jacobs Ladder that indicates that the government intentionally spiked foods and used chemicals to try to affect the physical status and make super troopers that can go without sleep or food for long periods of time. I cannot attest to these as I saw no effects along these lines. However, bear in mind that I was with the 5th Special Forces. Perhaps these things were not needed. We were supposedly already bullet proof but I must have missed that application because I suffered shrapnel wounds and they hurt and bled just like anything else. I must have missed or slept through the “we can ignore pain” segment of my training…I felt pain. I returned with the normal PTSD effects. Could not sleep well, loud noises made me hit the ground, the 1,000 meter stare that I have never lost….those type of things. I cannot testify to any manipulations of mind or body…or should I say that there are no lasting effects that indicate so….other than the AO.

    Fast Forward to the 1980′s and being a Battalion commander in an armored unit. We mostly fired training rounds of 105 and 120 mm shells and did not use DU as a regular training shell. However, we did fire it on occasion in training here and quite a bit over in Operations Desert Shield (1990) while we were getting ready to implement phase four of Operation desert Storm (1991-92). I had 544 men in my command from tankers to mechanics to combat engineers assigned to me. Other than the friggin’ biting fleas and sand ticks we encountered and the occasional Asp, neither I nor my command suffered any ailments that were unidentified. We had chemical warning devices everywhere and we wore chemical detection badges. We had evacuation units in the tanks to expel main gun smoke and DU residue after firing rounds with DU. We were supplied with radiation silicon photodiodes, photodiode arrays, and their related electronics and detector modules for X-ray and alpha, beta and gamma radiation detection and measurement to detect residual effects from DU. In short, we were supplied with all the available technology to catch any over exposure.I am unaware of any clandestine motives in Desert Storm.

    In operation Enduring Freedom (A), I was once again with Special Operations in Afghanistan in 2001/02. I was unaware of anything major in the realm of any type of local ailment. I have not suffered anything that I am aware or that has been diagnosed. I remember it being colder than Amarillo, Texas in January and hotter than Fort Hood in August. Except for an occasional oasis in a valley…the country is full of mountains and rocks.

    Conclusion: I cannot speak to the belief that there were clandestine government operations designed to deliberately hurt the military. My personal belief would be that it does not exist, however, I can testify that there are still problem areas in dealing with the lingering effects of AO and that most everyone that has contacted it has a long term ailment that develops to cancer or diabetes, for the most part.

    I would think that those soldiers that were caught in the aftermath of the oil wells that were set afire…any inhalation of that smoke would probably create long term affects. I never saw the fires as I was in the desert cutting supply lines and closing the escape routes in the highway. I would imagine that there are all sorts of problems that are a result of breathing in PCP’s and such that would affect births, I would guess. But all in all, I would have to say that in my 40 year career, other than the rumor that I heard in Vietnam, I have no knowledge nor seen anything along these lines.

    • Bottom Line says:

      It’s not like our government would willfully conspire to harm soldiers by using them as guinea pigs, …and then try to cover it up.

      Note at times ~ 00:19 – 00:27 – 00:32 – Signs on the way to testing.

      • Bottom Line says:

        • BL

          Those hills in the background are a great place to hunt Jack Rabbits. They are as big as Kangaroos. Easy to hunt at nigth. Their eyes glow in the dark.
          :)
          JAC

          • Bottom Line says:

            Check this out…

            Civil Defense 50′s Training and propaganda

            I like it from 2:30 to the end. How quaint..

            Gee whiz! Say,…isn’t it swell the way our government protects us from those pesky commies by using our tax money to blow stuff up and radiate things.

            ~Note the happy music. lol.

    • Glad you chimed in Colonel!

      I can further explain my motives and reasons for investigating GWI.

      When I was much youger, I remember the debate over Agent Orange and the fight to get it recognized as a problem. I remember news reports of very sick veterans basically pleading for help. I stuck with me. I thought it was wrong then and still do today. Now, here we are with GWI, and a very similar scenario.

      My gut tells me that something is very wrong, again! The Nam vets got screwed, and that should have never been allowed to happen again, but it is happening again, right in front of us. Clandestine or just plain stupid mistake matters not to me. But this shit has got to stop!

      If the powers that be would say that this is the cause, it was our fault, we will treat you to the very best of our ability, we wouldn’t be discussing this. That’s the problem. Their NOT!

      When I accompanied my father to the VA hospital in Pittsburgh on two occassions last month, I was shocked at the sheer numbers of people my age and younger. I spoke to many of them, and they weren’t their because of war wounds, but GWI.

      I have more to add to this article, stay tuned!

      Peace!

      G!

  9. All government see their soldiers as tools and dirt.

    They’ve radiated them, poisoned them, starved them, froze them, drugged them, tortured them…etc… all in the name of “learning and science”.

    Those that surrender their lives in the name of the State have sold their lives to the State.

  10. Bottom Line says:

    • Bottom Line says:

      Part 1

    • How does the government deal with DU contaminated sand? Betcha didn’t know that they ship it to Idaho!

      Army Shipping Contaminated Kuwait Sand to Idaho Landfill

      By Jill Kuraitis, 4-30-08

      The U.S. Army is shipping 6,700 tons of contaminated sand to Idaho from Kuwait. It will arrive at American Ecology in Grandview, Idaho, sometime in May.

      Grandview, population 470, is 42 miles south of Boise in Owyhee County.

      The sand is from Camp Doha in Kuwait, a former Army warehouse complex used by Army Forces Central Command. The sand absorbed depleted uranium when some spent ammunition was caught in a fire (addition May 1:during the first Gulf War.)

      http://www.newwest.net/city/article/army_shipping_contaminated_kuwait_sand_to_idaho_landfill1/C108/L108/

      If DU is not a problem in Iraq, after nearly 800 tons have been pulverized throughout the country, then why the need for this?

      • What????? And I’ve been complaining about Canada’s trash coming to our landfills in Mich. I guess I’ll take a cue from Oscar the Grouch ” Oh, I love trash! Anything dirty or dingy or dusty…”

  11. Bud Deraps says:

    Simply Google Bud Deraps
    and view my 10 min. video titled
    What Are We Doing To Our Own Loved Ones?
    I was in Iraq in 2001 and viewed first hand the
    huge increase of cancers, lukemia, and
    minor to extreme birth defects that
    occured after the 1992 Gulf War.
    Iraq scientists and Medical Experts
    have epedemialogical studies that prove
    beyond any doubt that DU is the cause
    of all this devastation.
    And our veterans are being exposed to
    the very same conditions that killed
    and maimed countless 10′s of thousands of innocent Iraqis.
    Bud Deraps
    Iraqis.

    • Thank you Bud for joining this conversation, and for serving your country with honor! Here’s Bud’s video:

      Peace and Live Free!

      G!

  12. G!,

    Outstanding! I have wondered about the DU exposure being a factor. Quick random thoughts, eldest child has an activity for me.

    No one in the 60′s knew what pot smoking would do longterm. Apply same thought to use of DU and all the vaccines. The military has shown indifference to the longterm health of its members, looking only at the short term results. Did we kick their ass? Mission accomplished, show some more footage of us blowing chit up. Troops are sick? Lets change the subject, look at that tank exploding again.

    Also wonder about high levels of gunpowder exposure? How many people who smoke develop cancer? How many people breathe in 100 plus rounds of smokeless fumes multiple times a week? (I can’t afford that much ammo, or might be at risk)

    Will check in later this weekend, if kids will allow. Very well thought and written article.

  13. Nothin wrong with a good funny!

    History Lesson

    Have you ever wondered who first uttered the phrase “You Gotta Be
    Shittin’ Me”?

    Well, it just so happens to have originated through the Father of Our
    Country, way back when George Washington was crossing the Delaware
    River with his troops.

    There were 33 (remember this number) in Washington’s boat. It was
    extremely dark and storming furiously and the water was tossing them
    about.

    Finally, Washington grabbed Corporal Peters (remember this name) and
    stationed him at the front of the boat with a lantern. He ordered him
    to keep swinging it, so they could see where they were heading.

    Corporal Peters, through driving rain and cold, continued swinging the
    lantern back and forth, back and forth.

    Then a big gust of wind and a wave hit and threw Corporal Peters and
    his lantern into the Delaware. Washington and his troops searched for
    nearly an hour trying to find Corporal Peters, but to no avail. All of
    them felt terrible, for the Corporal had been one of their favorites.

    Sometime later, Washington and his troops landed on the other side, wet
    and totally exhausted. He rallied the troops and told them that they
    must go on.

    Another hour later, one of his men said, “General, I see lights ahead!”
    They trudged toward the lights and came upon a huge house.

    What they didn’t know was that this was a house of ill repute, hidden
    in the forest to serve all who came that way.

    General Washington pounded on the door, his men crowding around him.
    The door swung open, and much to his surprise stood a beautiful woman.
    A huge smile came across her face, to see so many men standing there.

    Washington was the first to speak, “Madam, I am General George
    Washington and these are my men. We are tired, wet, exhausted,
    and desperately need warmth and comfort.”

    Again, the Madam looked at all the men standing there, and with a broad
    smile on her face, said, “Well, General, you have come to the right
    place. We can surely give you warmth and comfort. How many men do you
    have?”

    Washington replied, “Well, Madam, there are 32 of us without Peters.”

    And the Madam said, “You gotta be shittin’ me!”

  14. Bottom Line says:
  15. Good Morning :)

    The following link is the 2004 report and recommendations from the Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses:

    http://www.mvrd.org/pdf/ReportandRecommendations_KeyFindings_2004.pdf

    As you will see, GWI is not a result of PTSD or any psychological illness. I would like to put to bed the belief that GWI is psycholically manifested.

    More damn snow to shovel this morning, yea! :evil: We now have the snowiest February on record.

    I have plenty more to share on this subject, much of which will surprise.

    G!

    • This list is of declassified human experiments conducted on out Navy and Marine troops in the 60′s. DoD has admitted to conducting 133 such experiments on U.S. troops, this is what have been released to date:

      OPERATION COPPER HEAD- Jan 24-Feb 25, 1965
      AGENT- Bacillus globigii, Zinc Cadium Sulfide, (FP- fluorescent
      particle.
      SHIP- USS Power
      OPERATION SHADY GROVE- Jan 22-Apr 9,1965
      AGENT- Bacillus globigii, Coxiella burnetii (OU), Staphylococcal
      enterotoxin, Type B_PG2, Uranine dye (Sodium fluorescein)
      SHIP_ USS Granville S. Hall
      OPERATION AUTUMN GOLD- May3-31-1963
      AGENT- Bacillus globiggi (BG)
      SHIPS AND MARINES- USS Navarro (LPA-215), USS Tioga County
      (LST-1158), USS Carpenter, USS Hoel (DDG13),
      USS Granville S. Hall (YAG-40), Marine Air
      group 13, First Marine Brigade.
      OPERATION PURPLE SAGE- Jan&Feb 1966
      AGENT- Methylacetocetate
      SHIP- USS Herbert J. Thomas (DD-833)
      OPERATION EAGER BELLE I- Jan-Mar 1963
      AGENT- Bacillus globiggi (BG)
      SHIP- USS George Eastman (YAG-39)
      OPERATION EAGER BELLE II- Feb-Mar 1963
      AGENT- Bacillus gloviggi (BG)
      SHIPS- USS George Eastman (YAG-39), USS Granville S. Hall (YAG-40),
      USS Carpenter (DD-825), USS Navarro (LPA-215), USS
      Tioga County (LST-1158)
      OPERATION SCARLET SAGE- Feb 9-Mar 4,1966
      AGENT- Bacillus globiggi (BG)
      SHIP- USS Herbert J. Thomas (DD-833)
      An article at http://www.tugboatsF.com/1t2080Frame1source1.htm, lists
      the following agents being used on Army tug boats, LT-2080, LT-2081,
      LT-2085, LT-2086, LT-2087, LT-2088, as Tularamia, anthrax, parriot
      fever, Q fever, botulism, and Rocky Mountain Spotted fever.
      OPERATION FEARLESS JOHNNY- Aug-Sep 1965
      AGENT- Diethylphthlate
      SHIPS- USS George Eastman (YAG-39), USS Granville S. Hall
      (YAG-40), Two light tugs (not identified), VC-1 Utility
      squadron One, Blue Aiis Squadron (Blue Warriors), Patrol
      squadron Six (PATRON SIX), Flight Wing Two, Covered
      lighter (barge) YFN-811, US Navy tug, ATF-105
      OPERATION FLOWER DRUM I- Feb-Apr Aug-Sep 1964
      AGENT- Sarin nerve agent, Sulphur dioxide, Methylacetoacetate
      SHIPS- USS George Eastman (YAG-39), USS Granville S. Hall (YAG-40)
      OPERATION FLOWER DRUM II- Nov&Dec 1964
      AGENT- VX nerve gas, Phosphorous 32, Bis (2 ethyl-hexyl), Hydrogen
      phosphite
      SHIPS- US Navy Barge YFN-811, US Navy Tug, ATF-105
      DTC TEST 69-32 Apr 30-Jun 28, 1969
      AGENT- Serratia marcensen, Escherichia Coli, Bacillus subtilis
      var. niger (BG)
      SHIPS- USS Granville S.Hall (YAG-40), Five Army light tugs,
      manned by Naval personnel
      DTC TEST 68-50 Sep-Oct 1968
      AGENTs- Bacillus globiggi (BG), Staphylococcal enterotoxin,
      Type B (PG2), Uranine dye (Sodium fluorescein)
      SHIP AND MARINES- USS Granville S. Hall (YAG-40), 4533rd Tactical
      Fighter Wing (F-4E aircraft), Marine Air
      Group 13, First Marine Brigade
      OPERATION HALF NOTE
      OPERATION RED BEVA
      OPERATION NIGHT TRAIN
      OPERATION BIG TOM
      101 Others to come (hopefully)

      http://www.mvrd.org/showpage.cfm?ID=7

      While this is not a GWI issue, I thought that our older vets would be interested.

      G!

  16. This is totally off topic but I found this excellent article by Mark Steyn. I think he is right on the money. Those with entitelements will never give them up. Steyn looks at Greece but also ties it to the United States. We all know that the current path of the USA is not sustainable and yet we continue with programs like Health Care that will only make the situation worse.

    At this point, I don’t know if there is any way to stop the economic collapse that will hit all western economies sooner or later.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/426405/when-responsibility-doesnt-pay/mark-steyn?page=1

    • Hey Birdman :)

      How goes it? I’m not so sure it’s that far off target at all. Note the title of the article!

      Peace!

      G!

      p.s. We have 27 cases of jars ready for canning this fall!

      • G-Man:

        I’m getting some telephone interviews and on site interviews! I’ve been busy lately and not on the computer as much.

        I wish I was as prepared as you are. I have some preparation under way but not like you but I’m getting there.

        Stay warm!

  17. With all the information provided about depleted uranium, it makes one wonder several things. Did The U.S. Government know and understand the effects of DU weapons use on it’s soldiers and the population of Iraq? If not, did the scientific community drop the ball on this and fail to realize the effects?

    If the U.S. government was aware of this, why would they continue it’s usage? And finally, why in the hell did our government conduct a study of population control in 1974?

    • More info:

      In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying,

      “The [US government's] Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body.”

      At that time Dr. Durakovic was a colonel in the U.S. Army. He has since left the military, to found the Uranium Medical Research Center, a privately funded organization with headquarters in Canada.

      Doug Rokke, U.S. Army contractor who headed a clean-up of depleted uranium after the first Gulf War states:,

      “Depleted uranium is a crime against God and humanity.”

      Rokke’s own crew, a hundred employees, was devastated by exposure to the fine dust. He stated:

      “When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy,”

      After performing clean-up operations in the desert (mistakenly without protective gear), 30 members of his staff died, and most others”including Rokke himself”developed serious health problems. Rokke now has reactive airway disease, neurological damage, cataracts, and kidney problems.

      “We warned the Department of Defense in 1991 after the Gulf War. Their arrogance is beyond comprehension.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374

    • Military Men Are Just Dumb,
      Stupid, Animals To Be Used
      As Pawns In Foreign Policy”
      — Henry Kissinger

  18. Judy Sabatini says:

    ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGhzOvhDGp0

  19. Judy Sabatini says:
      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Thanks G, was trying to do that. It tugged at my heart strings watching that, and brought tears to my eyes as well.

        Hope you’re doing good in spite of all the snow you’re getting.

        Judy

        • Doing well Judy :)

          Snow is cleaned up, but of course it’s snowing again :evil: Watching the coverage of the Chili earthquake and impending tsunami. I can’t help but remembering reading that devastating earthquakes will precede the coming of the Antichrist. I’m not up on the religious readings of this, but do remember reading it somewhere.

          G!

          • I hope Cyndi P chimes in, she could be affected.

            • Judy Sabatini says:

              Let’s hope she isn’t. Hope she is in a safe place.

              • You guys are the best. I’m still here, high and dry, monitoring the situation. We’re about 2200 miles west of HI, so the wave won’t be here until this afternoon (ish). There’s no panic here on the island. We’re all very familiar with the topography of the surrounding sea bottom. No doubt the marina and beaches will be closed as a precaution due to unusal currents and strong under flow. It’s not a big deal cuz the weather is cloudy and looks like rain. We’ll stay in and watch the coverage in TV. :)

                PS The old guy and I have rooms on the second and third floors. The balconies have great views of the sea! So I expect I’ll continue aggravating a few ya’ll after the wave passes by.

              • Glad to hear it! :)

                I’m watching live feed from Hawaii, First time I can watch one live, from the frozen NorthEast LOL.

                G!

              • Thanks G-Man, Judy and Birdman. You guys are wonderful. I’m lucky to have your aquiantance.

                I’m watching the coverage from HI. What a clusterf**** on the roads. I have a feeling this is going to be a minor event. The coverage reminds of hurricane coverage in Florida. Panic, panic, panic, the thing comes through and everyone stands around asking ‘that’s it?’ I suspect that this will be a similar situation. I expect that here on Kwaj, it will be a non-event.

              • Cyndi P:

                Is the water too deep around your island to cause a large wave?

                I would stay up high just in case.

              • Hi Birdman,

                Here’s a link about Diego Garcia, and the 2004 tsunami. It gives a brief explaination of the mechanism at play.

                http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6786984/

                Thanks for your concern. We’ll be fine. No worries.
                :)

              • Judy Sabatini says:

                Glad to hear you’re okay, keep us posted as to what’s happening there.

              • Judy Sabatini says:

                You go right ahead and aggravate us, at least we’ll know you’re around here.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            We’re suppose to get more rain mixed in with snow. I’m sick of winter already.

            Maybe all this bad weather, earthquakes, and tsunami’s is just a sign of what’s to come. Devastation.

            It’s really Obama’s fault. They blame Bush for everything, I’m surprised they’re not blaming him for all what’s happening. So, I’m putting the blame on him this time. Obama, that is.

            Check out the video I put up on the other page. Your dad sent it to me, and asked me to put it up, so I did.

  20. Judy Sabatini says:

    Got to take off for a bit, bank run, then grocery shopping, will be back later.

  21. A news article that describes how the first cases of DU contamination in soldiers came to be. Would anyone have knowledge of any screening or legislation after 2004, as stated by Hillary Clinton:

    After learning of The News’ investigation, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) blasted Pentagon officials yesterday for not properly screening soldiers returning from Iraq.

    Clinton, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said she will write to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld demanding answers and soon will introduce legislation to require health screenings for all returning troops.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2004/4/5/broadcast_exclusive_u_s_soldiers_contaminated

  22. This arrived in my email, again. Something to think about..

    I hope you find the time to read this with an open mind. It’s interesting. Please read it with the open mind rather than immediately breaking it down into left or right, but rather look at it from the neutral viewpoint of right or wrong. It’s like the line below says, “what if he is right?”

    Take the three minutes to read this.
    Maybe he is wrong.
    What if he is right?

    David Kaiser is a respected historian whose published works have covered a broad range of topics, from European Warfare to American League Baseball.. Born in 1947, the son of a diplomat, Kaiser spent his childhood in three capital cities: Washington D.C. , Albany , New York , and Dakar , Senegal … He attended Harvard University , graduating there in 1969 with a B.A. in history. He then spent several years more at Harvard, gaining a PhD in history, which he obtained in 1976. He served in the Army Reserve from 1970 to 1976.

    He is a professor in the Strategy and Policy Department of the United States Naval War College . He has previously taught at Carnegie Mellon, Williams College and Harvard University . Kaiser’s latest book, The Road to Dallas, about the Kennedy assassination, was just published by Harvard University Press.

    Dr. David Kaiser

    History Unfolding

    I am a student of history.. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus.

    Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two.

    We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why?

    We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has “loaned” two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of “we the people,” who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not.

    We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy.. Why?

    We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?

    We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose?

    Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) – the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten…And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so.

    And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big as Wasilla , Alaska .. All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin’s pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.)

    Mr. Obama’s winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why?

    I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now.

    This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again.

    And that is only the beginning..

    As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s In those times, the “savior” was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative “losers” read it right now.

    And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his “brown shirts” would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did – regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand – the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course,

    How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media – did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and …… . .. change. And the people surely got what they voted for.

    If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It’s all there in the history books.

    So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. When Winston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to.

    Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course. The road to Hell is paved with them.

    As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me..

    I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it.

    I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections.

    David Kaiser
    Jamestown , Rhode Island
    United States

    • v. Holland says:

      Voting -might be our only hope-hmmmm-People on here keep telling me that voting is useless-that I am in danger of believing in the end justifies the means-well I will just reiterate that I see a train heading right at me and the rail it is traveling on is the democrat party so I’m gonna vote everyone of them out of office that I can. I understand all the arguments of voting my conscious, that the Repubs are bad too-but right now the train has got to be stopped. Sitting home in protest will not stop that train it will guarantee it’s success.

  23. I don’t seem to be getting updates….

    • Found this while researching atolls and tsunamis. Looks like the Aermican MSM missed it. You’d think they would have stumbled upon it in the five years since it was written! :lol:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10008178

      Tsunamis help atolls to beat rising seas
      By Simon Collins View as one page 5:00 AM Thursday Jan 27, 2005 Facebook
      Twitter
      Email
      Print

      New Zealand and Australian scientists predict a surprise reprieve for low coral atolls that many fear will disappear under rising oceans because of global warming.

      Auckland University geographers Paul Kench and Scott Nichol, and Australian professor Roger McLean have found that coral islets in the Maldives in the Indian Ocean built up in a way that kept them ahead of rising sea level in the past, and should be able to keep it up in the future.

      Ironically, events such as the Boxing Day tsunami, which seemed to doom the islands when it swept over them, are part of a natural process that is stripping sediment off the surrounding reefs and dropping it on the islands.

      The Royal Society of New Zealand has given Dr Kench’s group $7000 to go to the Maldives next month to measure the effect of the tsunami on 13 tiny uninhabited islands that are less than 600m long and no more than 1.5m high.

      The team made detailed measurements of the islands for three successive years from 2002 to last year and found they were “highly mobile” around the edges, with sediment washed by cyclones from one side of an island to the other.

      But Dr Kench said reports that such islands might have been wiped out by the tsunami were unlikely to be true.

      %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3Ca%20href%3D%22http%3A//ads.apn.co.nz/accipiter/adclick/CID%3Dfffffffcfffffffcfffffffc/aamsz%3D440X400/POS%3DPOS2/acc_random%3D73003464658/pageid%3D31869017828/site%3DNZH/area%3DSEC.TECHNOLOGY.STY/keyword%3Dtsunamis%20help%20atolls%20beat%20rising%20seas%20national%20world%20environment%20oceans%20natural%20disasters%20climate%20change%20science%20tsunami%20asiauniversity%20auckland%20university%20waikato%20zealand%20australian%20scientists%20predict%20surprise%20reprieve%20coral%20fear%20disappear%22%20target%3D_top%3E%3Cimg%20src%3D%22http%3A//apn-images.adbureau.net/apn/accipiter/images/AE2.gif%22%20alt%3D%22%22%20border%3D0%20%3E%3C/a%3E%3C/div%3E
      %3Cbody%3E%3Cdiv%20id%3D%22adDiv%22%3E%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22display%3Anone%3B%22%3EIXXXXXX%3C/div%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22display%3Anone%3B%22%3ECCID%3A%2027451%3C/div%3E%0D%0A%3Cscript%20type%3D%22text/javascript%22%3E%0D%0Agoogle_ad_client%20%3D%20%22pub-5276995754775409%22%3B%0D%0Agoogle_ad_slot%20%3D%20%229193920702%22%3B%0D%0Agoogle_ad_width%20%3D%20300%3B%0D%0Agoogle_ad_height%20%3D%20250%3B%0D%0Agoogle_page_url%20%3D%20%27http%3A//www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm%3Fc_id%3D5%26objectid%3D10008178%27%3B%0D%0A%3C/script%3E%0D%0A%3Cscript%20type%3D%22text/javascript%22%0D%0Asrc%3D%22http%3A//pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js%22%3E%0D%0A%3C/script%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3C/div%3E
      IXXXXXX
      CCID: 27451
      “We suspect that we might not observe that much change at all. We know the wave rode up over those islands, but the tsunami in the Maldives was only 1m to 1.5m high. It was more like a very rapid tide coming up.

      “There might be massive alterations round the edges, and we might think some of the sand on the [coral] reef and beaches has been swept to the top of the island.

      “But we have always proposed that, because they are susceptible to storms overtopping them that will put sand on the top, and the islands can adapt by growing upwards, which gives them a nice mechanism for withstanding rising sea level.”

      In fact, Dr Kench says that islands on coral atolls are built by sediments from their surrounding reefs and never grow higher than the height to which storm waves can carry the sediment. They have kept up with past sea level changes that were far bigger than anything we are likely to see in the near future.

      The sea level rose by about 140m, to around its present level, when the second-to-last ice age ended between 140,000 and 130,000 years ago.

      It dropped back slowly to about 130m below the present level at the peak of the last ice age about 30,000 years ago, then rose quickly to its current level 12,000 years ago.

      Since then the sea has not changed much. In the Maldives, the present islands built up mainly between 5500 and 4000 years ago, and the sea may have risen by only about 2.5m since then

  24. Although this operation was refused by JFK in 1962, I think it shows that our government in D.C. is more than capable and willing to commit murder. How many events since then could fall under this idea? JFK was assasinated a few short month’s after.

    Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false-flag plan that originated within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other operatives to commit genuine acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. One part of the Operation Northwoods plan was to “develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.”

    Operation Northwoods is especially notable in that it included proposals for hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate a foreign government.

    The plan stated:

    “The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.”
    Several other proposals were included within the Operation Northwoods plan, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets.

    Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Northwoods was signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense.

    http://www.ask.com/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    • Wow. It makes the Truthers seem just a little less nutty, doesn’t it?

      BTW, March 1st is almost here. Isn’t Rush Limbaugh supposed to be silenced by then? If we still hear him crowing over the airwaves, I guess we can say that was one conspiracy theory proven to be untrue!
      :)

      • Glad to see nothing bad happened with the tsunami stuff today!

        I think I laid out a good case against the govt. There’s much more that can be put up, and I will if need be, but for the moment, I just hope what’s presented gets looked at with an open mind. Sometime tomorrow I will ask for a verdict and see what happens. :)

        G!

        • I think you did too. You better be careful about that. You never know who’s reading this stuff.

          I’m impressed by how many people really believe the government is looking out for them. Its bad in enough in a young person, young and dumb comes to mind, but when I see it in someone 40+ I just have to wonder about them. Maybe they’ve had more charmed lives than me and haven’t needed to be wary of those who have more power than they do. I’ve been burned too many times to think for a minute that unquestioning trust of the powerful isn’t suicidal. But that’s just me.

  25. “SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM”

    We’re hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services.

    I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell “Shifty” Powers.

    Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy

    Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st

    Airborne Infantry. If you’ve seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the

    History Channel , you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10

    episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them.

    I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn’t

    know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having

    trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was

    at the right gate, and noticed the “Screaming Eagle,” the symbol of

    the 101st Airborne, on his hat.

    Making conversation, I asked him if he’d been in the 101st Airborne

    or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the

    101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served,

    and how many jumps he made.

    Quietly and humbly, he said “Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so,

    and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . ” at which point my heart

    skipped.

    At that point, again, very humbly, he said “I made the 5 training

    jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . .. . do you know

    where Normandy is?” At this point my heart stopped.

    I told him “yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what

    D-Day was.” At that point he said “I also made a second jump into

    Holland , into Arnhem .” I was standing with a genuine war hero . . .. ..

    and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of

    D-Day..

    I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France , and he said

    “Yes. And it’s real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are

    left, and those that are, lots of them can’t make the trip.” My heart

    was in my throat and I didn’t know what to say.

    I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in

    Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to

    get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came

    forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have

    it, that I’d take his in coach.

    He said “No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are

    still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to

    make an old man very happy.” His eyes were filling up as he said it.

    And mine are brimming up now as I write this.

    Shifty died on June 17, 2009 after fighting cancer..

    There was no parade.
    No big event in Staples Center ..
    No wall to wall back to back 24×7 news coverage.
    No weeping fans on television.
    And that’s not right.

    Let’s give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet
    way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the
    veterans.

    Rest in peace, Shifty.

    Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.]

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      My eyes teared up just reading this. It brings back memories of hearing my dad talked about when he was WWII and when he went into Europe as well. My dad passed away in 1998 from brain cancer, and I miss him telling those war time stories.

      God Bless you Shifty and may you rest in peace.

    • I really like his nick name, suspect he could have told some great stories too or perhaps some great ones could have been told about him-May he rest in peace.

  26. Just for fun :)

    Top 5 States with the Weirdest Laws
    By Ben Goldman | April 22, 2009
    Add a Comment

    Laws are usually enacted in order to protect or serve the general populace, and to establish a code of conduct for how one should behave in civilized society. But in a country where every citizen has their own standard for what is considered “civilized,” it’s not surprising that some of the laws designed to control us end up stupid, scary or just plain weird.
    In Texas it is illegal for children to have unusual haircuts.

    In Texas it is illegal for children to have unusual haircuts.

    Below are some of the states with the strangest laws on this side of the Atlantic.

    Alabama

    Alabama is known for its rich history of racism, intolerance and stupid laws. So steeped is it in stupid laws that it’s recommended that you read up on the latest trend in nonsensical law-making in the state before you find yourself looking for an attorney outside Montgomery, AL because you kicked off your shoes in the car. Because in Alabama, driving a car without shoes is illegal.

    Another good example of why we love the backwards-thinking, crazy state of Alabama is the law that stipulates how big a stick you can beat your wife with, namely: it is illegal for a husband to beat his wife with a stick larger in diameter than his thumb.

    And alluding to its stained history involving racism and the Ku Klux Klan, there is even a law that states Masks may not be worn in public.

    But if that’s not enough, then the laws stating that incestuous marriage is not deemed illegitimate and it is illegal to flick boogers into the wind should be all you need in deciding whether or not this state is right for you.

    Massachusetts

    If you were to take the polar opposite of the neo-conservative, crazy red-state that is Alabama, you would get the neo-liberal, crazy blue-state that is Massachusetts.

    And as with any extreme state, Massachusetts has its fair share of ridiculous laws.

    For instance if you were in Boston, MA cheering at a Red Sox game, you might not realize that all those people who start the Star Spangled Banner and then trail off out of boredom are violating the law. That’s because it is illegal to sing only a portion of the Star Spangled Banner in public.

    Other laws that will make sense with any of those native to MA but piss off anybody from out of town are those concerning booze. MA is very strict with alcohol, even to the point that it is illegal for candy to contain more than 1% alcohol and it is also illegal to give alcohol to a hospital patient.

    And to prove that Massachusens are just bat-sh%t crazy, it’s also illegal to dance on a Sunday. Unless, of course, you’re folk dancing.

    On the other hand, MA is one of the only states where gay marriage is legal, which makes it incredibly difficult for alcoholic, break-dancing homosexual couples to decide whether or not to move there.

    Florida

    Florida is commonly known as the Sunshine State, but when you consider all the crazy laws to come out of there, you have to wonder if at a certain point that sunshine might go to their heads.

    Regardless, they’re apparently worried that too much hot air will go to their heads, since they’ve already made it illegal to fall asleep under a hair dryer, much to the dismay of seniors everywhere.

    Additionally, as if having fallen out of nowhere, there is a law that states unmarried women can not skydive from a plane on Sundays, – a law so rigidly enforced that one could be arrested for it.

    But not only grannies and women get it from the law, apparently it is illegal to skateboard in a police station. Take that you punks!

    However, in case those laws weren’t obscure enough, they decided to throw one in there that makes it illegal to tie an elephant to a parking meter, unless the normal parking fee is paid, of course.

    Essentially, don’t go to Miami without a proper attorney.

    New York

    New York, New York – big city, bright lights and dim-witted politicians who pass stupid laws for the fun of it.

    That’s right, in case you didn’t know, the City That Never Sleeps is also known for having a ridiculous history of law-making that apparently is a result of those endless nights.

    Because in New York, there are laws that range from making it illegal to walk around on Sundays with an ice-cream cone in ones pocket to stating women may not walk around wearing body-hugging clothes, – though I take it that male police officers don’t enforce the latter.

    Additionally, there is even a law stating it is considered misconduct for one to greet another by placing their thumb to their nose and wiggling their fingers. But that one I’m okay with because people who do that are losers anyway.

    However, what I’m not okay with is the law that says it is illegal to throw a ball at someone’s head for fun. If I can’t throw a ball at someone’s head for fun, why the hell would I ever throw a ball at someone’s head?!

    But at least know there’s someone in New York who likes to have a little fun, because otherwise why would somebody go through the trouble of passing a law stating the penalty of jumping off a building is death, unless they were a comedian?

    Funny guy!

    Texas

    Rounding off this list is one that nobody should be surprised about – Texas.

    Yep, in a state full of Cowboys, its only a matter of time before someone goes shooting their pistols off in the courtroom, demanding things like making it illegal to milk someone else’s cow, or prohibiting one from shooting a buffalo from the second story of a hotel.

    But it gets better! Despite it being a state where people sit at home all day rocking on their porch drinking beer with their shotgun in their laps, the entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned because it contains a formula for making beer at home.

    Also, because cities like Dallas, TX have amongst the highest crime rates in the country, they have passed a law that says criminals are required to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or written, before committing a crime. You know, because criminals are such law-abiding citizens and all.

    And finally, if you were thinking about rebelling against all the stupid laws in Texas, know that you must do it within reason – because it is illegal for children to have unusual haircuts, such as a Mohawk or spikes.

    Conclusion

    Hire a lawyer before going on vacation.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      Hi V

      Oh, God, those were funny, now I’m going to have to go look and see what some of Nevada’s stupid laws are.

      Hope you’re doing well today.

      Judy

  27. California resolution could make state a ‘cuss-free’ zone — 1 week anyway

    SACRAMENTO, CA — The state Assembly has passed a resolution that would establish the first week of March as “Cuss Free Week” throughout the state.

    The measure was approved on a voice vote Thursday and will be considered by the state Senate next week.

    It was inspired by McKay Hatch, 16, a South Pasadena teenager who started a No Cussing Club and Web site at his middle school in 2007.

    His movement has led to similar clubs in every state and 20 countries.

    Hatch traveled to Sacramento with his family to support the resolution. He sees a link between foul-mouthed incivility and other forms of problem behavior, such as drug use and bullying.

    “Your words become your actions, your actions become your behavior, your behavior becomes your character and your character becomes destiny: you are what you speak,” said Hatch during Thursday morning’s announcement.

    Hatch said he hopes legislatures in other states adopt similar resolutions, citing a letter a middle school teacher in Louisiana wrote him.

    “They found that after implementing a no-cussing club chapter, they had a 64 percent decrease in profanity and a 90 percent decrease in bullying,” he said. “This just proves to me what I already knew inside, and what I think we all know inside, our words are connected to our actions and have an effect on other people.”

    Hatch also said his crusade to end cussing hasn’t been easy. He launched the campaign at his middle school and soon found cruel classmates, even death threats to his family.

    On one day in January of 2009, Hatch received 60,000 e-mails.

    “It was a bunch of death threats of people trying to stop what I was doing. We actually had a couple of bomb threats on our house,” Hatch said. “But I realize they’re bullies and I’m not going to let the bullies win, so I’ve had a lot of backlash, but I’ve also had a lot of support.”

    One lawmaker, however, did question the timing of the resolution. Assem. Chris Morby, R-Fullerton, wanted to know how lawmakers could be considering it when California is in the midst of a budget crisis.

    “We recognize that we have a lot of tough issues facing California, but having the opportunity to recognize someone from our state who has made an impact is certainly something we should do here in the legislature,” Assem. Cameron Smythe, R-Santa Clarita, said.

    Smythe sponsored the resolution, along with Assem. Anthony Pontantino, D-La Canada Flintridge.

    “Cuss-free week,” if approved by the Senate, will begin next week. Californians are encouraged to make “cuss-jars” using labels found on McKay’s Web site. If you use profanity, you should deposit cash or coins into the jar.

    McKay said at the end of the week money collected should be donated to charities.

    By Nick Monacelli, nickmonacelli@news10.net

    http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=76078&catid=2

    I read this and thought-that’s nice and it’s just a resolution not a law -so it’s nice they are acknowledging this young man but I posted it because of this:

    “tray987 wrote:
    well there goes freedom of speech.maybe they need to make his home masturbation free see how he likes that.that’s what wrong with our world somebody got to stick there nose where it don’t belong” So who thinks the young man is the problem?

  28. “The current statistics show that 1 in 150 children will be affected by Autism. Only 20 years ago the statistics were 1 in 10,000.”

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/4057071/study-toxins-linked-to-autism?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g2:r4:c0.013156:b31176738:z6

  29. Judy Sabatini says:

    Here are just a few stupid laws I found for Nevada.

    Speak English only in Pahrump, Nevada

    Nevada |
    No sex toys in Reno, Navada

    Reno |
    Lying down on sidewalk is illegal

    Reno |
    Buying a round of drinks is forbidden

    Nyala |
    Wearing a mask is required when walkin the streets of Elko

    Elko |
    You’re only allowed to bring a concealed gun into the county if it’s registered with the Las Vegas Police Dept.

    Clark County |
    Hanging someone is legal if they shoot your dog

    Nevada |
    Driving a camel on the highway is illegal

    Nevada |
    Bar owners must boil soup and sell beer simultaneously

    Nevada |
    Mothers must have a state license before giving their daughters a perm

    Nevada |
    You might be arrested if your child belches in church

    • v. Holland says:

      Clark County |
      Hanging someone is legal if they shoot your dog– I don’t know this one might be okay :)

    • v. Holland says:

      Okay to be fair-here a few of my favorite stupid laws from Tennessee

      “You can’t shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile.

      Hollow logs may not be sold.

      More than 8 women may not live in the same house because that would constitute a brothel.

      Skunks may not be carried into the state.

      It is illegal for a woman to call a man for a date.

      Bar owners may not let patrons make loud, unusual noises.

      When you pull up to a stop sign you must fire a gun out the window to warn horse carriages that you are coming.
      Lexington

      By law, anyone who has been drinking is “sober” until he or she “cannot hold onto the ground.

      It is illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket.

      Illegal for a woman to drive a car unless there is a man either running or walking in front of it waving a red flag to warn approaching motorists and pedestrians.

      It’s illegal for frogs to croak after 11 PM.

      Panhandlers must first obtain a $10 permit before begging on the streets of downtown Memphis.

      Males may not be sexually aroused in public.”

      • Illegal for a woman to drive a car unless there is a man either running or walking in front of it waving a red flag to warn approaching motorists and pedestrians.

        This one should be stricktly enforced :lol:

        • Judy Sabatini says:

          Oh, knock it off, now you’re being funny. :razz:

          I just wonder who thought of or thinks of these things.

          Hope you’re doing good today. BTW, how’s the snow there? We’re suppose to have a nice mostly sunny day, with temps up to 60.

        • v. Holland says:

          Okay but that last one might make your being out in public a problem.

  30. Judy Sabatini says:

    Stupid laws for California.

    Sunshine is guaranteed to the masses.
    Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship.
    Bathhouses are against the law.
    Women may not drive in a house coat.
    No vehicle without a driver may exceed 60 miles per hour.
    You cannot leave your car on the street overnight without the proper permit. (Alhambra)
    Peacocks have the right of way to cross any street, including driveways. (Arcadia)
    Nobody is allowed to ride a bicycle in a swimming pool. (Baldwin Park)
    City Council order reads: “No dog shall be in a public place without its master on a leash.” (Belvedere)
    You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows. (Blythe)
    It is illegal to spit, except on baseball diamonds. (Burlingame)
    Ice cream may not be eaten while standing on the sidewalk. (Carmel)
    Women may not wear high heels while in the city limits. (Carmel)
    It is prohibited to sleep in a parked vehicle. (Cathedral City)
    Persons may not ride their bicycles through the “Fountain of Life”. (Cathedral City)
    All dog “waste” must be removed from any yard within seven days. (Cerritos)
    It is illegal to own a green or smelly animal hide. (Chico)
    Bowling on the sidewalk is illegal. (Chico)
    Driving a herd of cattle down a street is against the law. (Chico)
    It is illegal to plant a garden in any public street. (Chico)
    Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine. (Chico)
    One may not use one’s own restroom if the window is open. (Dana Point)
    It is illegal to wash your car in the street. (Downey)
    Public restrooms must be supplied with toilet paper. (Hermosa Beach)
    No person may show his or her buttocks on a playground. (Hermosa Beach)
    It is illegal to pour salt on a highway. (Hermosa Beach)
    It is illegal to drive more than two thousand sheep down Hollywood Boulevard at one time. (Hollywood)
    It is illegal for a trumpet player to play with the intention of luring someone to a store. (Indian Wells)
    Drinking intoxicating cement is prohibited. (Indian Wells)
    Foretelling the future for donations is illegal. (Indian Wells)
    Crushing rocks in the city limits is forbidden. (Indian Wells)
    You are forbidden to spit on the ground within 5 feet of another person. (Lafayette)
    It is illegal to shoot “silly string” at parade participants. (Lodi)
    It is illegal to posses, own or raise roosters. This is considered disturbing the peace. (Lompoc)
    Cars are the only item allowed in a garage. (Long Beach)
    It is illegal to curse on a mini-golf course. (Long Beach)
    It is illegal for a man to beat his wife with a strap wider than 2 inches without her consent. (Los Angeles)
    You cannot bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time. (Los Angeles)
    You may not hunt moths under a street light. (Los Angeles)
    It is illegal to cry on the witness stand. (Los Angeles)
    Toads may not be licked. (Los Angeles)
    It is a crime for dogs to mate within 500 yards of a church. Breaking this law is punishable by a fine of $500 and/or six months in prison. (Los Angeles)
    Zoot suits are prohibited. (Los Angeles)
    Vehicles may not contain sound systems which allow someone to hear noise outside the vehicle. However, this does not apply to a vehicle attempting to sell something. (Norco)
    It is unlawful to give another fireworks. (Norco)
    All persons wishing to keep a rhinoceros as a pet must obtain a $100 license first. (Norco)
    Growing oleander flowers is illegal. (Norco)
    Roosters may not crow in the city limits. (Ontario)
    It is illegal to molest butterflies. (Pacific Grove)
    It is illegal to walk a camel down Palm Canyon Drive between the hours of four and six PM. (Palm Springs)
    It is illegal for a secretary to be alone in a room with her boss. (Pasadena)
    Two bathtubs may not be installed in the same house. (Prunedale)
    Motor vehicles may not drive on city streets unless a man with a lantern is walking ahead of it. (Redlands)
    One may not carry a lunch down the street between 11 and 1 o’clock. ( Riverside)
    It is illegal to shoot jackrabbits from the back of a streetcar. (San Diego)
    The owners of houses with Christmas lights on them past Feb 2nd may be fined up to $250. (San Diego)
    Prohibits elephants from strolling down Market Street unless they are on a leash. (San Francisco)
    It is illegal to wipe one’s car with used underwear. (San Francisco)
    Persons classified as “ugly” may not walk down any street. (San Francisco)
    It is illegal to pile horse manure more than six feet high on a street corner. (San Francisco)
    Giving or receiving oral sex is prohibited. (San Francisco)
    It is illegal to have more than two cats or dogs. (San Jose)
    You may not play percussion instruments on the beach. (Santa Monica)
    One may not raffle off a dog as a gift in any public place. (Shasta Lake)
    Ducks have the right of way to cross Rancho California St. at all times. (Temecula)
    Kites may not be flown above 10 feet over the ground. (Walnut)
    Children may not wear a Halloween mask unless they get a special permit from the sheriff. (Walnut)
    Males may not dress as a female unless a special permit is obtained from the sheriff. (Walnut)
    One may not leave sand in their own driveway. (Walnut)

  31. Hi Ya’ll! :)

    I would like to add to the healthcare debate by applying a corralation between what is happening in D.C. now and the information provided in this article.

    I have read, completely, both the House and Senate versions of the Healthcare reform bills. They are both, IMHO, a total and complete government takeover. If they pass anything similar, what we can look faward to is well documented.

    Vets have for generations fought with the VA to get the care and compensation that they needed and deserved. This was clear during the Agent Orange battle waged by our Nam vets. This is now also clear with Gulf War vets and their fight with GWI. This IS Government healthcare. The government have years of practice in denying healthcare and letting people die from the illnesses they contacted while serving this country in combat. They deny the causes, lie about their test results, deny responsibility, and if they take it over, they will do the same to all of us. Their history in doing so is irrefutable.

    Wake Up America!

    G!

    • Some more proof as to how government run healthcare really thinks about pre-existing conditions. The source is very interesting as well.

      Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:45:45 PM PST
      The Pentagon has informed thousands of American soldiers in Iraq that their Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder was a pre-existing condition from before they ever joined the military. In other words, NO TREATMENT, NO INSURANCE, NO NOTHING!

      And if that isn’t awful enough for you, American soldiers suffering brain injuries while in Iraq are being told that also was a pre-existing condition.

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/1/154236/750

      Note: I edited out the profanity!

      G!

      • v. Holland says:

        It really is a shame-they should be doing these evaluations to make sure our guys are okay but not for the purpose of just kicking them out.

        • This just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Govt. healthcare. Ohio workers comp claims a routinely denied under the premise of pre-existing condition. The governments use of “nobody will be denied because of pre-existing conditions” is a hypocritical lie of monster proportions. They have historically done the opposite.

          G!

          • v. Holland says:

            I will never understand people supporting government health care-I think people see the government taking and wasting so much money they just start believing if I’m gonna have to pay so much money I should get something for it-without realizing or caring that the government is just gonna take more-issues like pre existing conditions is just a good talking point, nothing more.

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Pre-existing condition even before they went in the military. Please, give me a break. Where’d they come up with that one?

        And here all this time, I thought the VA is suppose to take care of their people.

        When Matthew was going through that bout with depression here a while back, he talked to a psychiatrist, and he said all he did was ask Matthew the same thing he was telling him about.

        He got better results talking to a Vietnam Vet at his university. He said all the psychiatrist wanted to do, was give him some pills to take. And guess what? After talking with that guy, ( The Vet ) he’s much happier now. No problems anymore. Haven’t seen him depressed in a long time.

    • Here, here, G-Man! Well said!

  32. In about 12 hours or so, USW will most likely be posting a new article, and this subject of discussion will go into the archives. I’d like the folks here at SUFA, in this case, the jury in the court of public opinion, to come to a verdict.

    I as well as Bottom Line, have presented written and video evidence concerning GWI and the governments failure to treat them accordingly. Many have died because of their illness and lack of healthcare, having been denied by the government.

    The BIG question is: Is the Government, based on the information provided, guilty of the murder of U.S. service members?

    A good three choices of answers : guilty, not guilty, hung jury. Feel free to comment on your choice!

    Vote away!

    G!

    • guilty

    • G-Man,

      I appreciate all of the research and work you put into this. So I will offer two verdicts. If the charge is murder, meaning that their intention was to kill, then I am at a hung jury verdict. i simply haven’t seen enough evidence that the government intentionally worked to kill soldiers. That may be the result in many cases, but that is a result of their intent, rather than the intent itself.

      However, change the charge to manslaughter, and I will change the verdict to guilty. Negligence, incompetence, and political wrangling have all contributed to the death of many veterans who should have been treated. They are guilty of contributing to the outcome, but not guilty of planning it.

      Hope that makes sense.

      USW

  33. Down here Buck,

    How do you expect insurance compaies to stay in business if they can’t earn a profit? No profit = no insurance compay = only public option. The whole point of the public option is to control the system, not improve it. We have a bunch of 1960s radicals instlled into the highest eschelons of government. As I remember it, they sounded much more like communists and control freaks than anything else. They didn’t strike me as trustworthy, kind souls. They are now in charge of the government. I don’t believe their intentions are honest. They’ve written a 2700 page bill to camoflage their true objective. This is why I’m against the public option. I will be forced to pay for it, and then I will be forced to participate. When I was in Pohnpei over the new year week, I met a woman from England. She asked me about what’s going on in the States. As soon as health care came up the first thing out of her mouth was “you know we having rationing in the UK, don’t you?” I don’t want my health care rationed.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Cyndi,

      If people agree with you about the horrors of government-run health insurance then the health insurance companies would do fine. Not to mention that the public option, at least as discussed by the Dems, wouldn’t even be open to most people. Based on the Dems original plan since I have health insurance through my employer I wouldn’t be able to join the public option even if I wanted. So it would really only provide an alternative, (hopefully) cheaper option for those in need of individual coverage.

      Your health care is already rationed by private insurance companies as those companies control the purse strings. If your insurance company denies a claim (and denies any appeals) are you going to be able to pay out of pocket? Most people cannot.

      • Can you provide the article, in either bill that supports your statement? I’ve read both, so please back up your post with facts!

        • They do not exist, so good luck! :lol:

        • Buck the Wala says:

          That supports which statement?

          If you’re talking about the public option not being available to those on employer-based coverage, of course it doesn’t exist. The Dems took out any inkling of a public option from the bills.

          • That you would not be able to get the public option. Most companies would dump insurance and pay the tax associated with that choice, I know, my self insured company has made that very clear, and made the reasons clear. REad the bills, you’ll see for yourself.

            Peace!

            G!

      • My God Buck, pay attention to the words! Obama says ” You will not be denied health insurance for pre existing conditions”. Over and over and over. I would say he is 100% correct, as if you have a pre-existing condition, you will be able to purchase HC insurance. Great! The vets have been falling for this BS for over a century:

        Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:45:45 PM PST
        The Pentagon has informed thousands of American soldiers in Iraq that their Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder was a pre-existing condition from before they ever joined the military. In other words, NO TREATMENT, NO INSURANCE, NO NOTHING!

        And if that isn’t awful enough for you, American soldiers suffering brain injuries while in Iraq are being told that also was a pre-existing condition.

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/1/154236/750

        Just because you are told you can “purchase” HC with a pre-existing condition, please provide something that says that that insurance has to pay for the treatment of that condition!!!!!

        IT DON’T !!!

        Wake UP my friend, you ahve been lied too!

        G!

      • Buck,

        The insurance compaies will be subjected to the same harrassment that Toyota is presently receiving. This is how Obama operates. He ‘won’ elections be using dirty but legal tricks to eliminate the competion well before the vote took place. Now that he controls two of the big three auto companies, he’s going to drive Toyota out of the American market, so us little people will have fewer choices and just go ahead and drive the little green peices of shit the Enviro-MENTALS want us to dirve. The elites want to control our health and our bodies. Eliminating the private insurance companies and forcing people on the the public option is the key. As for paying for a medical procedure that insurance doesn’t cover, I’ll so as I’ve done in the past. I will take out a loan. I had three thousand dollars of dental work paid for that way. Insurance only paid $960.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Cyndi, What public option!? There is NONE in the bills as passed by the House and Senate.

          Am I mistaken on this?? If so please post the text of either bill which creates a public option. I’m pretty sure there is none though.

          My entire argument is that there should be a public option…

          By the way, G – as to your post about the vets that is just horrendous and I sincerely hope this is changed. This country has long mistreated our returning soliders. Not sure how I’ve been lied to however as no bill has been passed into law yet. That is Obama’s statement relating to the currently debated bills; if passed and enacted and then this preexisting condition nonsense continued, I will be the first to say Obama lied to us on this point.

          • Buck,

            You are a good man with a good family, trying, like the rest of us, to survive as best we can. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you did not really read this article, or the suppoting posts?

            Yes, our country has been mistreating our returning vets, despite the contract that they signed with the vets. If the government can’t honor their contractual agreement with our vets, why on earth would you want them to provide a govt. controlled public option? Do you really believe that they will honor a civilian contract?

            • Buck The Wala says:

              Somewhat guilty – I had skimmed the article and some posts.

              But I believe you are missing my point: yes, it is horrendous what is going on with our troops and I’m glad you pointed out this issue. However, you cannot jump to the conclusion that Obama has lied to us on this issue with the current bill given past events. Of course, due to past events we should all be taking a much closer look at what is going on here and now.

          • Cyndi P says:

            If there’s no public option, what’s the tax increase/new ‘fees’ for? If there’s no public option, why is the bill 2700 pages thick? If the intent isn’t drive the private insurance companies out of business and ensure that everyone is able to collect on the right of free health care, just what is the point of all this???? Forty years a go when I was a kid, you never heard the sob stories about health insurance the D’s like to tell. The system USED TO WORK. Seems to me that it could easily work again if that were the true intent.

            BTW, Obama has lied to you about this already. I recall seeing a video of him talking to some union group about everyone being on universal health care, they couldn’t do it right away, that it would take time, 10 or 15 years, but that EVERYONE would be on it. I think the video was made in 2003-2005, but I’m not sure. Glenn Beck had it, I think.

      • Buck

        So which is it? You say public option will drive down premiums in some areas. Then you say it wouldn’t be availabel to many.

        Just how does a public option drive down private insurance premiums?

        Aside from the fact that govt provided health care is immoral, what really chaps my backside is that nobody is asking the right question. You are running on and on about public options as if the insurance was the freaking problem. By the way, your health insurance cost is probably the same with your employer as private pay. You just don’t see the employers contribution that would otherwise go into your paycheck. Only the really big employers can get some sort of discount for the pool size.

        Oh, back to the real question. What EXACTLY is causing medical care costs to increase at 5x the rate of inflation?

        Until that question is answered with some sort of scientifically defensible analysis the rest is nothing but political rhetoric and posturing. It is the progressive/socialist goal and nothing else. They still bitch that FDR backed away from it. They want it so bad they can taste it. They will rationalize it anyway they can.

        There should absolutely NOT be a public option if that means the govt is going to cover the cost of medical insurance. And the existing “public options” should be abolished.

        • Hi JAC!

          What EXACTLY is causing medical care costs to increase at 5x the rate of inflation?

          I know the answer, but I’ll wait to give it, if needed!

          Peace my Friend!

          G!

          • . defensive medicine

            . having to cover costs for those who don’t have insurance ie ER don’t turn away people

            . In Ca I believe that the cost for illegals is billions (read awhile ago) As is the cost to incarcerate Illegals in Ca runs about 700 million or so (If I recall)

            . medicare – underpays doctors and procedures so others have to make up for the shortage.

          • G-Man

            I would like to know. I have been digging for two years and have some suspicions but have seen no summary based on good solid analysis.

            I do think there are many contributors, none of which are addressed by any of the “health care bills” proposed.

            • Hey JAC!

              Per hospital administration where I work.

              The three primary forces that will continue the cost of the services provided at the hospital are:

              1. Medicaid – 46% reimbursment of actual cost

              2. Medicare – 65% reimbursement of actual cost

              3. Charity care – care for those that cannot pay

              4. Wages

              Those are the four factors given, in order of importance as to why those with insurance continue to pay more. As more people become government reliant, it will contiue to get worse. Don’t forget, the baby boomers will be retiring enmass over the next few years.

              Hope that helps!

              G!

        • Buck The Wala says:

          A public option, if done correctly, could serve to bring down premium costs in the individual insurance context. It can serve to provide a competitive option in those marketplaces where people don’t have any choice in insurance companies.

          Clearly it won’t be nearly as strong as a public option with everyone would be eligible to join would be, which in part is why I support a much broader and more accessible public option.

          As for my employer-based coverage costing the same as individual-based, that could very well be – but I’m looking at cost out of pocket here, my own bottom line.

          • Buck

            If there are few if any options available for insurance in a given area that is because of govt.

            So your logic is that if govt reduces private competition then we need govt provided insurance to increase competition with the private sector to reduce price.

            But you see, you once again fail to recognize economic cause/effect relationships. What is going to reduce cost of insurance when there is NO PRICE limitation. It doesn’t my friend. Flat truth.

            The costs are simply shuffled off to someone else.

            You claim also ignores, once again the primary issue. What is driving medical care costs up so fast?

            No amount of “public option” is going to reduce the cost of medical care. It simply changes the debate over who is going to pay for it. The customer or someone else.

            You want to increase the pool? Eliminate all federal medical programs. Just imagine what the private insurance costs would do with such an increase in the pool size.

          • “A public option, if done correctly….” That’s a mighty big IF given this this crrent bunch of corrupt assclowns. (See STIMULUS)

      • What is the fraud percentage in Medicare? I know it is BBBBBillions in just South Florida.

        What is the percentage of fraud for private insurance companies?

  34. GMan,
    I honostly think it is in all the shots they subject our military to. The thing is our service personel were given so many shots by so many different drug companies that our government has no idea which one is making our men and women sick. It may have been only a specific drug company that made bad drugs or is using a bad base chemical.I believe they are still giving this shot to our military and what we see coming out of the Gulf war is just the tip of the ice berge. There are probably military personel who have never been to the Gulf that are carring symtoms of something they have no idea what has or is causing their problems. Since they were never in the Gulf can’t be GWS is their way of thinking.
    I do not believe it was done intentionally by the government but they are responsible. Because the VA has been so slow to react to the problem is just another symptom of our government problems. Once a problem is detected at the bottom it takes years to get to the top and even longer for the government to react and trickle down to the people who need it. Hpw many military personel have come down with cancer who served in WW2? The government had their hand in that to but it was not intentional on their behalf.
    Manslaughter – maybe. Intentional murder – no
    Just wait till the government takes over healthcare and see how many lambs are sent to slaughter.

    • A1 !

      Thanks for chiming in. Your points are true. I did not go back to WWII as far as cancer stats, maybe I should have. There’s so much info about the cuurent vets, I was concerned with information overload with this era by itself. I agree that the vaccinations are a cause, but is there not, in our era of technology, ways to find this out? If WWII vets died because of it, and Korean and ‘Nam vets are equally effected, why not address it for what it is? The govt. has failed us, in my opinion, military and civilian alike. They continue, so I would ask, is manslaughter any worse that murder?

      Peace!

      G!

  35. Judy Sabatini says:

    Pa. Man Dies During Storm After 911 Calls Unheeded

    Sunday, February 28, 2010

    PITTSBURGH — With her boyfriend in severe abdominal pain, Sharon Edge called 911 for an ambulance in the early morning hours of Feb. 6. Heavy snow was falling — so heavy it would all but bring the city to a standstill — and Curtis Mitchell needed to go to a hospital.

    “Help is on the way,” the operator said.

    It never arrived.

    Nearly 30 hours later — and 10 calls from the couple to 911, four 911 calls to them and at least a dozen calls between 911 and paramedics — Curtis Mitchell died at his home. His electricity knocked out, his heat long off, the 50-year-old former steelworker waited, huddled beneath blankets on his sofa.

    “I’m very angry, because I feel they didn’t do their job like they supposed to,” said Edge, 51. “My man would still be living if they’da did they job like they was supposed to … They took somebody that I love away.”

    Mitchell, on disability for depression, had a history of pancreatitis, an inflammation of the pancreas, Edge said, and had spent nine days in a hospital in late January. He had been home about a week when he was overcome with pain. Autopsy results are pending, awaiting toxicology test results, authorities said.

    Now Pittsburgh officials have ordered an investigation and reforms of the city’s emergency services system as Mitchell’s case highlighted key shortcomings:

    — Details of Mitchell’s calls weren’t passed on from one 911 operator to another as shifts changed, so each call was treated as a new incident.

    — Twice, ambulances were as close as a quarter-mile from Mitchell’s home but drivers said deep snow prevented the vehicles from crossing a small bridge over railroad tracks to reach him. Mitchell was told each time he’d have to walk through the snow to the ambulances; in neither case did paramedics walk to get him.

    — Once, an ambulance made it across the bridge and was at the opposite end of the block on the narrow street where the couple lived — a little more than a football field’s length. Again, paramedics didn’t try to walk.

    “We failed this person,” said Michael Huss, the city’s public safety director.

    To be sure, Mitchell’s ordeal unfolded as the storm dumped nearly two feet of snow on Pittsburgh; the 911 system was swamped with more than twice as many calls as usual and overall emergency response was hampered.

    Regardless of how deep the snow was, Huss said it was unacceptable that paramedics didn’t walk to help Mitchell. If they had, Huss believes Mitchell may have survived.

    “… You get out of that damn truck and you walk to the residence,” Huss said. “That’s what needed to happen. We could have carried him out.”

    The six paramedics on the three ambulances could be disciplined, Huss said. He declined to say what that might be.

    Paramedics or firefighters will now be required to go to a caller’s door.

    “Everyone needs to get a response,” Huss said Thursday.

    That Mitchell died waiting to get to the hospital is a cruel coincidence.

    Edge and Mitchell met eight years ago in an emergency room. Both were getting their medications under control for their mental illnesses, she said. He was being treated for depression; she has bipolar disorder.

    “We’ve been stuck together ever since, like glue,” Edge said.

    Several years ago, they moved into a small red brick rowhouse in Hazelwood, the riverside neighborhood that was home to Pittsburgh’s last working steel mill, which shut down a dozen years ago.

    Sitting on the tan and blue fabric sofa where Mitchell died, Edge described him.

    He enjoyed watching TV, particularly westerns. They hoped to get married by a justice of the peace in April, then celebrate with a little party.

    “He did for his friends,” she said. “He looked out for other people when they needed stuff. He was there to help.”

    They didn’t have a car. During the storm, a neighbor offered to drive them to a hospital but he couldn’t get his car shoveled out.

    Edge is a little sketchy on details of Mitchell’s worsening condition and death. Then again, she didn’t think she’d need to relive them. She thought they first called 911 on the night of Feb. 5, but records indicate the first call was made about 2 a.m. on Feb 6. Sometime Friday night, the storm knocked out their power and the couple sought warmth under blankets as the house got colder.

    Edge said Mitchell had begun to feel stomach pains during the week, but he tried to deal with it. By Friday morning, he woke up in pain. Still, he tried to manage with medication, she said.

    A review of the 911 calls by the Associated Press shows no anger in Mitchell’s or Edge’s voices. There was no screaming. Conversations with operators were cordial and the couple seemed to understand the difficulties the snow posed.

    Still, Mitchell and Edge let them know he was in pain.

    “My stomach man, it’s real messed up. It’s killing me,” he tells a 911 operator about 11:15 a.m. on Feb. 6.

    About 8 p.m. that night — in the eighth call to 911 — Edge tells an operator: “My boyfriend called for an ambulance. He’s in a lot of pain and we’ve been waiting for a couple hours now.”

    At one point, Mitchell can be heard exclaiming “Oh man, what?” when Edge relayed to him that they would have to walk to the ambulance because of the snow. It was not clear when that conversation took place.

    In all, three ambulances were dispatched at separate times. In each case, Mitchell was told he’d have to walk to them — and he canceled the calls.

    As the hours went by, Mitchell’s pain intensified and he began to have shortness of breath. Because he complained of abdominal pain, which is generally not considered life-threatening, he was initially ranked as a medium priority. About 11:20 a.m. Saturday, his priority level was upgraded, but not as an emergency.

    Mitchell tried to sleep. He took his prescriptions — oxycodone for pain and sleeping pills for his insomnia. Edge gave him the medication and closely followed the dosage, she said.

    “All that time, he was dying and I didn’t even know it,” Edge said.

    Shortly before 8 a.m. on Feb. 7, Edge made her last 911 call.

    “I think my husband’s dead. Oh God, oh God,” she sobbed.

    The 911 operator told Edge to calm down and asked for the address and phone number.

    “I’ve been trying to get an ambulance here for three days. He’s been having stomach pains,” Edge said.

    The operator talked Edge through a check to see if Mitchell was breathing. Try to get him onto the floor on his back, the operator said.

    But Mitchell’s body was cold. Edge couldn’t wake him.

    “Oh God, he can’t leave me … Curtis? Curtis?” Edge said, struggling to move him.

    The operator assured Edge that paramedics were on the way.

    “He’s dead,” Edge said.

    “No, no, no. You’re going to stay with me,” the operator said, continuing the checks on Mitchell.

    Finally, someone came to the door.

    “Who is it?” asked Edge. “Is it the medics?”

    “Yes.”

    “All right,” said the operator. “You did a good job. I’m going to hang up now. Let them in. Good bye.”

    The snow had long since stopped falling. It took firefighters two minutes from being dispatched to reach the couple’s home.

    They checked for a pulse, but it was too late.

    “They said he was gone,” Edge said.

    It would be five more hours before workers from the medical examiner’s office came for Mitchell’s body.

    A police officer waited with her. Edge sat on the sofa with the body.

    “I kissed and hugged him,” she said of Mitchell. “But it was all I could do.”

    • Very sad story. I am part of our Emergency management team at the hospital. After our recent storm, the very one in your post, I am going to demand, no recommend, that certain personnel have tire chains in their vehicles. While these events are rare, they happen, and the EMS responders were unprepared.

      Our city was basically shut down after 19 inches fell in one night, I went to work early that day, long before the roads were passable by even large SUVs. I was picked up by our own 4 x 4 at work that did the plowing. The roads to work were littered with stuck vehicles. You can’t fix stupid, but you can equip EMS vehicles with tire chains, at a low cost. Sadly, government paid entities fail again. 50 Bucks, and a life saved.

      G!

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        When I read that story, I just had to put it up, and it was sad that it had to come to an end like that.

        I think that’s a good idea you have there G, in fact , maybe more cities should really consider that, might save more lives if it comes to bad weather like that.

        You know, when my dad died, my sister said it took them 4 hours to come and take him, and to this day, she could never understand why. The weather wasn’t bad that night he died, and that was at 3 in the morning, I remember that because that’s when my sister called and told he had just died. Too think you have to have a loved one there dead for so many hours good or bad weather.

  36. Slowly, the MSM is driven out of its dreamy sleep.

    Washington Times Covers 9/11 Controversy

    Thursday, February 25, 2010

    A lingering technical question about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks still haunts some, and it has political implications: How did 200,000 tons of steel disintegrate and drop in 11 seconds? A thousand architects and engineers want to know, and are calling on Congress to order a new investigation into the destruction of the Twin Towers and Building 7 at the World Trade Center. “In order to bring down this kind of mass in such a short period of time, the material must have been artificially, exploded outwards,” says Richard Gage, a San Francisco architect and founder of the nonprofit Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Mr. Gage, who is a member of the American Institute of Architects, managed to persuade more than 1,000 of his peers to sign a new petition requesting a formal inquiry. “The official Federal Emergency Management [Agency] and National Institute of Standards and Technology reports provide insufficient, contradictory and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers’ destruction. We are therefore calling for a grand jury investigation of NIST officials,” Mr. Gage adds. –Washington Times

    • The internet has become a great tool of information and knowledge. The velil bastards in D.C. are slowly being exposed, and that will speed up as more people seek the truth. WTC 7 was clearly a demolition. If it was possible to place demolition material in an occupied building without the knowledge of the tenants, then it’s possible with the Twin Towers as well. I still have that image of 7 going down.

      G!

  37. Cyndi P says:

    Black Flag,

    Are you familiar with the book “Aftershock” by Wiedermer, Wiedemer, and Spitzer? I’m reading it now. Disturbing……

    • I haven’t read it – but it seems to have a number of very good reviews.

      • Cyndi P says:

        I hope they’re wrong, but they’re probably not. The good news is they don’t think that stock piling will be required. That’s the best news I found, so far. I find the rest of it very disturbing. I’m not finished with it yet.

      • BF,

        A friend asked me a question today, maybe you can help. A home is titled in two names, the mortgage is in only one of the names, if the home is forclosed, what is the person not on the mortgage entitled too, if anything?

        G!

        • A claim of fraud on against the other homeowner!

          I cannot borrow money on property I do not own.

          Since ownership is shared, it required explicit written permission of the second title owner.

          If they did not give it, it would be fraud.

          It is possible that the court would nullify the mortgage and place the demand of payment solely on the first person.

          The bank would have to proceed with a law suit against the mortgagee (and possible felony charges). The bank may have the right to sell half the house – but how that would work (shrug) – the court would have a mess on its hand.

          But if they did give it, the second person does not have to pay the mortgage – but they will lose the house if they agreed to the mortgage.

          But if there was agreement to the mortgage the person – the second owner can place a legal claim on the property – though second to the right of the bank. They also could create legal turmoil to force the bank to dispose of the property in a far better and fair manner – that is, not allow it to be dumped.

          They could negotiate another mortgage independent of current action. They could tie up the foreclosure proceedings for a long time while the court disentangle the legal mess of co-ownership and non-indebtedness.

          All in all – if the matter is pressed – will be a huge and holy mess.

          But, I’m not a lawyer – this is all merely my lay opinion based on experience.

          • Thanks BF :)

            I had to laugh at the fraud issue, neither one is sharp enough to take a gumdrop from a 3 year old :lol

            I would think they would have to prove intent, which would be next to impossible. I’ll pass this on and keep posted on it to see what happens.

            G!

  38. I guess this says it all.

    —–Original Message—–
    From: “Alex & Becky”
    To:
    Subject: Fw: Soon To Be Gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 19:46:04 -0500

    SOON TO BE GONE

    By A MILITARY DOCTOR

    This should be required reading in every school and college in our country. This Captain, an Army doctor, deserves a medal himself for putting this together. If you choose not to pass it on, fine, but I think you will want to, after you read it.

    I am a doctor specializing in the Emergency Departments of the only two military Level One-Trauma Centers, both in San Antonio, TX and they care for civilian Emergencies as well as military personnel. San Antonio has the largest military retiree population in the world living here. As a military doctor, I work long hours and the pay is less than glamorous. One tends to become jaded by the long hours, lack of sleep, food, family contact and the endless parade of human suffering passing before you. The arrival of another ambulance does not mean more pay, only more work. Most often, it is a victim from a motor vehicle crash.

    Often it is a person of dubious character who has been shot or stabbed. With our large military retiree population, it is often a nursing home patient. Even with my enlisted service and minimal combat experience in Panama, I have caught myself groaning when the ambulance brought in yet another sick, elderly person from one of the local retirement centers that cater to military retirees. I had not stopped to think of what citizens of this age group represented.

    I saw ‘Saving Private Ryan.’ I was touched deeply. Not so much by the carnage, but by the sacrifices of so many. I was touched most by the scene of the elderly survivor at the graveside, asking his wife if he’d been a good man. I realized that I had seen these same men and women coming through my Emergency Dept. and had not realized what magnificent sacrifices they had made. The things they did for me and everyone else that has lived on this planet since the end of that conflict are priceless.

    Situation permitting, I now try to ask my patients about their experiences. They would never bring up the subject without the inquiry. I have been privileged to an amazing array of experiences, recounted in the brief minutes allowed in an Emergency Dept. encounter. These experiences have revealed the incredible individuals I have had the honor of serving in a medical capacity, many on their last admission to the hospital.

    There was a frail, elderly woman who reassured my young enlisted medic, trying to start an IV line in her arm. She remained calm and poised, despite her illness and the multiple needle-sticks into her fragile veins. She was what we call a ‘hard stick.’ As the medic made another attempt, I noticed a number tattooed across her forearm. I touched it with one finger and looked into her eyes. She simply said, ‘Auschwitz.’ Many of later generations would have loudly and openly berated the young medic in his many attempts. How different was the response from this person who’d seen unspeakable suffering.

    Also, there was this long retired Colonel, who as a young officer had parachuted from his burning plane over a Pacific island held by the Japanese. Now an octogenarian, he had a minor cut on his head from a fall at his home where he lived alone. His CT scan and suturing had been delayed until after midnight by the usual parade of high priority ambulance patients. Still spry for his age, he asked to use the phone to call a taxi, to take him home, then he realized his ambulance had brought him without his wallet. He asked if he could use the phone to make a long distance call to his daughter who lived 7 miles away. With great pride we told him that he could not, as he’d done enough for his country and the least we could do was get him a taxi home, even if we had to pay for it ourselves. My only regret was that my shift wouldn’t end for several hours, and I couldn’t drive him myself.

    I was there the night M/Sgt. Roy Benavidez came through the Emergency Dept. for the last time. He was very sick. I was not the doctor taking care of him, but I walked to his bedside and took his hand. I said nothing. He was so sick, he didn’t know I was there. I’d read his Congressional Medal of Honor citation and wanted to shake his hand. He died a few days later.

    The gentleman who served with Merrill’s Marauders,

    The survivor of the Bataan Death March,

    The survivor of Omaha Beach,

    The 101-year-old World War I veteran.

    The former POW held in frozen North Korea,

    The former Special Forces medic – now with non-operable liver cancer,

    The former Viet Nam Corps Commander.

    I remember these citizens.

    I may still groan when yet another ambulance comes in, but now I am much more aware of what an honor it is to serve these particular men and women..

    I have seen a Congress who would turn their back on these individuals who’ve sacrificed so much to protect our liberty. I see later generations that seem to be totally engrossed in abusing these same liberties, won with such sacrifice.

    It has become my personal endeavor to make the nurses and young enlisted medics aware of these amazing individuals when I encounter them in our Emergency Dept. Their response to these particular citizens has made me think that perhaps all is not lost in the next generation.

    My experiences have solidified my belief that we are losing an incredible generation, and this nation knows not what it is losing. Our uncaring government and ungrateful civilian populace should all take note. We should all remember that we must ‘Earn this.’

    Written By CPT.Stephen R. Ellison, M.D. US Army

    If it weren’t for the United States military, there’d be NO United States of America.

  39. I am a veteran of the gulf and I was medevaced back from there with lesions all over my face, neck, and arms. I was extremely sick and was sent all over the place for medical help, none of which did help. I was then made non-deployable due to the lesions and barred fromk re-enlistment because of it. I waited out my remaining time in service and was honorably discharged late in 1991. I was then invited by Congressman Tim Penny to speak about my illness in Washington, DC. For the next several years, I traveled all over the place testifying at congressional hearings and visiting doctor after doctor. Still no diagnosis and all of these years later and my health continues to deteriorate. The lesions subsided for several years but are now back and covering about 75% of my body. The bleed, burn, and itch. I wake up each morning with blood all over my bed sheets. At work, I unknowingly bleed all over my desk. I have spent years battling illness including infections of unknown origin (unidentified bacteria), internal bleeding, kidney issues, infections of and enlargement of my heart, extremely odd blood chemistry that doctors can’t explain, my wife has had three miscarriages, and I have nearly been killed by sepsis twice, and still no answers. My life is miserable and has been for years. I cannot even spend time outside most of the year because of mosquito’s as they bite leaving new lesions and risking yet more infections. I cannot wear shorts and long sleeve shirts are preferred by most people around me because my skin is gross to look at. I cannot take my children swimming or to water parks any longer. I have lost friends to this same illness and I continue to look for help from the VA and civilian doctors, without luck. All of this and the DoD still will not tell us the names of three vaccines that we received in the gulf because they are classified. (Remember the October 1990 congressional waiver of the consent requirement for vaccines to military personnel and the use of questionable vaccines not approved by the FDA?)

    I am 40 and have been this sick since I was 21. When will the battle end for gulf war veterans? Will I live to see my oldest child graduate from high school in May? Will I live to see my youngest graduate 10 years from now? Does anyone truly care? Military service is a tradition in my family and has been since the revolutionary war on one side of the family, and the civil war on the other. I think that tradition is going to end as I will not be encouraging my children to serve.

    • I’m sorry to read your story.

      Your answer, sadly, comes from the mouth of Kissinger.

      “Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.

  40. Those who would exchange some liberty for some safety deserve neither. So too, those who would exchange the possibility of dying or being wounded for the promise of free education and free medical care, deserve whatever they get.

    I feel really bad for the men who were drafted into service then abused by their government; I feel nothing for the morons who joined. (This obviously excludes those who foolishly joined during WWII)

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