A Slow Boat to China…

us-china-yin-yangOK, Time to tie a couple of things together here and see what everyone thinks. I was talking to Revolution2010 about this through text messages and finally tonight on the phone and we agreed on the relevance. So I am going to do my best to convey the thoughts we were having. I will be interested in hearing form everyone as to whether they think we may be seeing the first moves of a problem or whether it is nothing to worry about. We have to really begin discussing the situation that we are putting ourselves into in terms of our ability to remain a viable world power. Is the countdown already started towards the demise of our United States?

Let’s start with the economy in regard to China. It is something that we really need to start thinking about. Because as we continue to heap on the bailouts and economic stimulus plans and increased welfare and national health care (for everyone except veterans that is) and financial TARP’s, the question becomes where is this money going to come from? Without massive tax increases across the board (and the resulting armed revolt that would follow) it can’t all come from us sucker taxpayers.

us-china-flagsIf your boss slashes your pay and you have no savings because you spent more than you earned for many years, and if your creditors are threatening to cut off your credit cards and home equity loan, what happens? The answer, of course, is that you’re in deep doo-doo. And this could be the situation for the U.S. government, which is facing lower income tax receipts and giant increases in deficits thanks to Democratic spending, if China loses its appetite for extending more and more loans by buying U.S. Treasury securities. 

China is the single largest foreign holder of U.S. Treasurys. The money it lends to the Feds finances our significant budget deficits (Americans have been paying about $450 Billion a Year in interest on the national credit card; without that debt to pay off, personal income taxes could be almost 40% lower.) So it is clear that it is China that will be deciding whether to finance more US debt. Even with the class warfare of the Obama administration pushing the punishment for success and increasing taxes on the wealthy, we aren’t even going to come close without China. Let’s be clear that the almost $2 Trillion deficit predicted by Obama’s bean counters (and predicted much higher by the CBO and other private firms) are present after the increased tax revenue from the wealthy.

great-wall-of-worryChina is the biggest foreign creditor to the United States and called on Washington to see that its response to the global slowdown does not damage the value of Chinese holdings. “We have made a huge amount of loans to the United States. Of course we are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I’m a little bit worried,” Chinese Premier Wen Giabao said. “I would like to call on the United States to honor its words, stay a credible nation and ensure the safety of Chinese assets.” Analysts estimate that nearly half of China’s $2 trillion in currency reserves are in U.S. Treasuries and notes issued by other government-affiliated agencies.

Washington is counting on China to continue buying Treasuries to fund its massive stimulus package. “Inside China there has been a lot of debate about whether they should continue to buy Treasuries.” Understand this readers, this massive economic stimulus plan is being funded on the assumed purchase of treasuries by China. And even if they do that in order to fund President O-prompter’s (as in teleprompter) massive spending, we have to understand one big thing that should be obvious and troubling…. We will end up being even further in debt to a country that doesn’t necessarily like us that much. 


Chinese Carrier

Chinese Carrier

Then let’s take a look at the situation in the South China Sea a couple of weeks ago. Several Chinese vessels confronted and harassed a US Navy ship, the USNS Impeccable. The claim was that the US ship was within the zone stretching 200 miles from China’s shores into the ocean without permission. The problem is that international law only recognizes China’s right extending 12 miles from the shore. The USNS Impeccable was 75 nautical miles of the coast of Hainan Island, site of a proposed expanding Chinese naval base for ballistic missile and attack submarines.


It isn’t the first time that we have had an issue in that region with the Navy in recent years. Last year, China abruptly cancelled a planned port call in Hong Kong for the US Carrier Kitty Hawk and its fleet. When the Carrier Group changed course and headed for Japan because of the sudden cancellation, they were confronted by a Chinese destroyer and attack submarine in the strait of Taiwan in a standoff that lasted 28 hours and resulted in both sides moving all the way to battle ready positions. Just days before the Hong Kong cancellation, two US minesweeping ships were denied safe harbor when fleeing a massive storm.


plaarmyThere are also some concerns abroad about China’s increased military spending and technological revamping of its armed forces. China’s military budget had an average annual growth rate of nearly 16 percent from 1994 to 2004, and China’s published 2006 military budget was about $35 billion, according to Beijing. China’s published military budget in 2008 was $59 Billion, and in 2009 is expected to be $71 Billion. Pentagon sources have said these numbers fail to demonstrate the true scope of the growth, and the real 2008 figure could be as much as $141 Billion, which would put them on par with the US in terms of defense spending as a percentage of GDP. 

chines-tanksLet’s also remember that we are talking about a communist country here. In their world they can dedicate factories to building a war machine on the cheap because the citizens have fewer rights. Also, manufacturing costs are far lower in China meaning they are getting more bang for their buck. We pay a defense contracted manufacturer somewhere around $80/hour, while they pay closer to $2/hour. In recent years China has upgraded its nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles; bought state-of-the-art warships, fighter planes and submarines from Russia; and begun development of a number of so-called “asymmetrical” weapons, including informational warfare and anti-satellite systems.


We had a long discussion on this site the other night about manufacturing economy versus knowledge economy. Doesn’t this throw yet another kink in our political standing. Consider this: If China no longer decided to fund our deficits (and who could blame them at this point?), and even furthermore made the move to start collecting on some of that debt, our country would be even more fiscally screwed than we already are. Then suppose they decided to start a war with us. Not only are we vastly outnumbered (1.3 Billion versus 300 Million), but we lack the manufacturing to do what we did during World War II. 

russiachinamapNow throw another kink into that mess. A good portion of the world is not real happy with the US because of our constant meddling in their affairs. I don’t think the whole world hates us. But a large part of the middle east does. So does a significant portion of Africa. And a now resurgent Russia seems willing to challenge us again. Imagine if the Russians and their old soviet army and revamped economy, the middle east with their willingness to die for Allah, and China all got together and said they have had enough of us pushing our weight around. 

It isn’t as improbable as you may think. In 2001 the two big boys signed the Russia-China Friendship and Cooperation Treaty, the first such bilateral treaty since 1950. A major point covered “joint actions to offset a perceived U.S. hegemonism.” That was two months before September 11 and the ensuing Iraq invasion by the U.S. In August, 2005, the two countries held their first joint military exercises to increase bilateral coordination in “fighting the war on terrorism.” They realize more than one can play the game. This past May, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov hosted the Chief of General Staff of Beijing’s People’s Liberation Army, and discussed increased cooperation in the context of the Russia-China leading role in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). Russia will increase deliveries of select military technology to China as well as training Chinese military at the institutes of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

I am not in a panic here. But perhaps there is more reason for us to change our foreign policy than just because it is the right thing to do. Morals should be a good enough reason. Not having the right to tell sovereign nations what to do or trespassing on their soil should be enough of a reason. But if for some reason those aren’t good enough, how about the fact that we might be setting our selves up for a good old fashioned ass-whippin? And perhaps this is not the time for Ali-Bama and his 40 Thieves to be cutting defense spending and taking actions that make people not want to serve in the military. Just a thought.


  1. How soon we forget the lessons of the cold war.

    It has always been the plan for China to wait and see who won the cold war, then take on the winner.

    Not all wars are fought with guns, etc.

    This one will be lost on wall street.

    Not to mention the white house . . . 😦

    Perhaps if we act now we can avert this disaster.

    Time to bring D.C. into the 21st century.

  2. I guess that we should all realize that our economy in neither industry or knowledge based,but debt based.Someone convinced Americans that it was their right to have whatever they desired and it could be paid for some other tme,if at all.They were entitled to new cars,large homes,new clothes,fancy cuts of meat,anytime they wanted same.And they certainly took what they wanted from the cream jar.Now the bill has been presented and they don’t have the money to pay.It’s a huge bill.They threw caution to the winds and spent everything they had and all they could borrow.Now the bill’s due and they don’t have the money to pay and washing dishes isn’t an option.

    Notice how I keep saying they?That’s because I didn’t contribute.I lived within my means and I have no debt.Does that mean I don’t have to help pay the bill?No,it doesn’t,and that irks me. I should be exempt,but I’m not.

    China is worried about it’s investments and I don’t blame China.If I were China I would worry and worry a lot.I might demand part of the United States as collateral.I just don’t know which part.It’s all pretty dismal at the moment.

    On an upbeat,I understand Obama is going to appoint one Gideon Gono to the Fed.He’s presently the head of the Central Bank of Zimbabwe and is the world’s leading expert on printing money.Worthless money,nothing behind it.There’s 1.2 trillion dollars more coming to be added to the fray a la Gono.I’m kidding about Gono,of course,I hope.

    Are we in decline?Yes we are.Are we going to survive this?We always have,up until now.We’ve never had a real clown as President before though.One that’s gong to cut the deficit by spending.I’ll say one thing in his favor though,He knows it’s going to take high taxes to get out of this mess,thus cap and trade.He can implement that at the later part of a term and not see any effect before election 2012,hoping for another term.

    As A nation we are in sorry shape.Our leaders have led us down the garden path to get elected,because the ones who wouldn’t do that,couldn’t get votes.Thus the lion’s share of the blame lies with the voters.Take this last election as an example.Anyone with a brain knew where we were headed with Obama.Fiscally coherent people know that you don’t elect the most liberal Senator in history to a position of power,especially to team with Reid and Pelosi.

    It is said that bad officials are elected by good people who don’t vote.That wasn’t true this time.This time bad officials were elected by good people who voted.

    • I still believe Obama was elected by good people who did not vote (and quite a few idiots who did). Even though the gross number of voters was greater for the ’08 election than the’04 election, the percentage was extremely close…roughly 61% in ’08 and 60.6% in 04. The problem, I believe, was that the Republicans really did not have anyone they truly believed in, and their voter turnout suffered because of it.

      • True Terry.John McCain was not Rush approved and as such some Republicans stayed home. Four percent of conservative people voted for Bob Barr.I don’t know how many were from outside the South.Many Independents voted for Obama as a backlash toward Bush and many voted for Obama because of Sarah Palin.But in the end,good people voted in bad leaders.

        • There still remains a great number of registered voters, around 40% who did not vote at all. The problem is that unfortunately there have been very few, or no good leaders to vote for…so you are essentially correct.

  3. Sadly, USW, I have to confess to the same fear. First of all, he who holds the purse strings calls the shots. Additionally, though, I believe that the Dems’ socialistic policies will make it easier for the Chinese/communists to nuance there way into our society. That’s the tactic — diversion while you chip away at the existing society.

  4. Yes, US the Chinese hold the upper hand. How long will it be before they are dictating to the US how we can spend our money much like the Government is telling the bailed out corporations how to spend theirs? Bottom line is they have bailed us out, and we owe them big time, and believe me, they relish the position they are in.

  5. I believe that the only reason we will remain somewhat free of any invasion, despite the desire by some countries to do so, is the fact the U.S. is an armed nation. Deer hunters alone could cause any invading force complete fits. On a lighter side, we could just give them California, let them teach Washington how to fix the illegal immagration issue, how to deal with the gay marriage issue, and best of all, we can deport Nancy Pelosi!

    • esomhillholler says:

      The only problem g-man with deporting her is that it would be our luck, China would make her their liason or ambassador to us. Wouldn’t that be just spiffy?

    • We are an armed nation right now. Give Obama a little time and he’ll see what he can do about that. Dont care what he said during election, he wants all our guns.

  6. Our foreign policy seems to be like a lion dealing with a pack of hyenas. China harasses, takes a little nip, Russia is doing the same flying over our carriers at 500 ft.. North Korea & missile test , Iran and their rhetoric, Israel and 900 million for Gaza, and Afghanistan/Pakistan. Oh, and the drug wars in Mexico.

    Our internal policy is like a kindergarten class on skittles. The only time you see unity or organization is lunch (free, of course ) and recess. If you tie your previous ” Backyard ” post to this one, its like a Tom Clancy novel coming together. Every plot twist leading to an ending we are not likely to find entertaining. And it seems so simple, that if we would move on our energy, our industry and economy would pick up, leaving us better able to deal with our foreign friends.

  7. conservative74 says:

    I do not think we have to even question that the whole world hates a free America. However, I still believe that America will have to implode versus being invaded. At least that is how I think right now. If Obama were to weaken our military further we could be open to conventional warfare. I still believe the US Military is the mightiest in the World.


  8. Disgusted in Cali says:

    I never understood why the government thought it would be a good idea to sell off America to an unfriendly country like China to begin with. I too beleive that they have just been biding their time, waiting for our economy to implode so they could walk in and take over. We no longer have the industry to make what will be needed to defend the country should they decide to do just that. By the time we get our shit together it will be too late, and that scares me to no end. Our elected officials have led us down a path to ruin but continue to throw money at worthless projects. Now we have an idiot at the helm who will be like a deer in the headlights should another attack happen on our soil.

  9. Andrew Gabriel says:

    Power is an illusion…an illusion that is believed by the many , hence those controlled act accordingly and that which controls the illusion remains in power.
    The U.S. has maintained this dominance, not only because of its power financially and militarily, but because we have been the beacon of light for a dark world. True or not, that has been the perception outside of the U.S. We are the good guys, blessed by God and with the duty to save the people of the world, even from themselves. Are we in danger? Yes. Dire…..mmm not yet. I believe our demise has come from within. We as a people have allowed people of more than questionable moral standards run our country. Scoundrels rule our nation, and they have ruined our reputation, and everything we stand for. (Thus WE have to take OUR country Back) Are we losing ground in terms of the amount of influence and power we have on this planet? YES, definitely. But we are STILL the most powerful nation in the world. Will China dare to go to war with us in the near future. No, it would hurt them alot more than us at this moment in time, they are way to vested in us financially. China being a soverign nation, as well as Russia are going to try to influence thier part of the world alot more now. The US is being looked at as the falling superpower, and that is scary for the world. Like us or not, it was comforting to now that “Top Dog” being in this case the United States is in control of it all. If it is troubling for us to think that we might lose our influence, imagine what the world feels when it seems that they might lose their leader.

  10. Okay, I’m so glad people are finally talking intelligently and realizing that it is the thought process that has taken over this country that got us into this spot. I am a 23 year old working, college graduate from nebraska. I have a loan on my school loans, and that is about it! and i pay every month, on time. i don’t understand when it became the norm that at 25 you needed, no, ENTITLED to have a 25000 car and a 150000 home?? it drives me crazy! i have friends that just got engaged, found out they were pregnant, one just got laid off, and is working for a lot less money, the other doesn’t have a job, and they just bought an 80000 house – 0 down – and he also has a payment on a truck he has to make every month. she has boatloads of school loans, of course hasn’t yet graduated and probably isn’t going to, and has about 3 maxed out credit cards. a lot of people tell me its none of my business what they are doing, but i think that has what got our country into this mess. we see our friends, family and neighbors making these horrible decisions, but think its our place not to say anything. then when the “explative” hits the fan, we are the ones to pay! enough is enough. it IS our business and our right to tell others what they are doing is just damn stupid. if everyone (government, businesses, and personal households) would start living within their means, it would be CRAZY how fast we could get all of this cleaned up. we need to take control of our country again!

    • These people see the government living beyond their means, and the government is making it very easy for them to live beyond theirs. It is a way to enslave that portion of the population who take the bait…one handout leads to another and before you know it they are dependent on the government. You are correct, these people should be called out for their poor decision. Perhaps (and I know this is a huge stretch)if the government would “live within their means” it would set the example for all to follow…

  11. Black Flag says:

    Whoa, guys!

    First, the Chinese are not the “bad guys”.

    We are not “losing” to them.

    Are you “losing” to Wallmart because they sell you stuff?

    Their population is still recovering from the Cultural Revolution disaster – they are, equivalently, still in 1950’s economy.

    They are moving from rudimentary agriculture into industrial manufacturing. This move is accelerating the standard of living for most of the Chinese people to a degree they haven’t seen. Remember, much of rural China still uses horses, donkeys and bicycles as their primary mobility tools.

    We should be applauding this. The richer the nation, the less likely the people are likely to support risk of losing it.

    They have been playing very nice with us.

    Instead of spending all of our fiat inflated dollars (which if they did spend it, we’d have 25% inflation rate) – they simply stored the stuff in a basement.

    The Chinese will probably take a bath financially – and write-off most of the debt.

    This will cause the Chinese to decide it is more profitable to sell to Chinese then Americans. (Yesterday, a news report showed Chinese shopping at one of their malls – and the deals they had. All the stuff not exporting to US due to economic slow down is being dumped into the Chinese retail market.

    For the first time in a century, the common Chinese can buy good quality ‘stuff’ for pennies on our dollar – which makes it affordable for them.

    They will get used to this very fast and want more.)

    This will cause the US a lot of economic heart-ache, but it is the US fault, not China.

    China has no designs of a ‘global empire’. They ‘been there, done that’ and it sucked for them too. They want to be left alone, in their own playground. But don’t dare play in their playground without their permission.

    • Good guy or bad guy is subjective. All the trade we have shifted to China makes us a good guy. Our opposition to their position on Taiwan and the South China Sea makes us to be their #1 bad guy. Overall, I agree with you, but there is no way I consider them a good guy. Neutral self- interest, OK.

      In the long run, their changing to an industrial society will likely lead to their culture changing to something we can better identify with.

    • BF,

      You said “First, the Chinese are not the “bad guys”.”

      You, my good friend, are very DEAD WRONG!

      As in my first statement, Chairman Mao’s cold war strategy/policy was and is to take on the winner of the cold war. Russia is now so weak that it has absolutely no choice but to side with China. It is not Chinese World domination we are talking about here, but COMMUNIST world domination.

      Dictated by the Chinese, of course.

    • Black Flag says:

      They are a government, no different than any other except by their ‘team color’.

      It is very dangerous to make an enemy where none exists.

      • BF;

        COMMUNISM is and has always been (since Karl Marx invented it) the absolute enemy of freedom. The enemy IS there. Do not make the mistake of the Russians and the Chinese, THEY chose to IGNORE (sound familiar?) the communists. History has spoken for itself.

        Ignore Communism and you are done.

        • SFC Dick says:

          Damn, I read ahead and Black Flag is arguing the same point I’m about to make, screw it, I’m locked and loaded, I’ll fire away G.A Rowe posted
          “COMMUNISM is and has always been (since Karl Marx invented it) the absolute enemy of freedom”
          I dissagree, merely another idea or, better an unachieveable ideal. Just happens the other big boy on the block, trying to maintain/gain influence on the world stage, chose that name to control his people by a socialist/totalitary state. Were they to call themselves something else it would be more pallatable? France is much socialist, should we fear them?

          economy is the great prince of peace, big fat happy economy = big fat happy whatever system.

          OK, all my arguments are dead wrong, we need to maintain super power. OK, I’ll bite, HOW? WHY?

          How? I’ll start,
          step 1, offer Gov handout/stimulus/bail out/cheese, on that day when thehandout/stimulus/bail out/cheese is about to happen, you raise a tarp on the back of a flat bed truck and lay waste to the assembled crowd with an MG 42, yes, wallstreet execs, CEOs etc would have to get their cheese this way too,stand on line.
          step 2, special joint sessions of conrgess from state level to federal are held in concert to address the machine gunning of the parasites. The collective gavel drops in all assembled houses, a tarp is raised and all elected officials are machine gunned down with an MG 42.
          step 3, in court houses around the US lawyers assemble to sue me for this obscenety, this crime against nature, at the collective gavel, tarp raises, machine gun down the lawyers with an MG 42.

          step 4, the people are either forced or allowed, depending on one’s bent, to fend for themselves, they collect, en mass, to discuss the future, as I’m in attendance a tarp is raised, and I’m machine gunned with an MG 42.

          passes the decades , passes the millenium….

          repeat….step 1,

          • Yo, . . . Sir Richard . . . . . DECAFF, man, D-E-C-A-F-F!

            Slow down a bit here. Enough of the MG42 stuff. My brethren tried that stuff with folks they didn’t like back in 1930’s Germany. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now. Let’s face it, it just ain’t Kosher.

            Communism is not a government – it has always been a plan to subvert the population into nothing but a bunch of mindless little lemmings, all ready to jump over the cliff when the powers that be decide it is time to jump. That ain’t freedom. That is the enemy of freedom. Period.

            The founding fathers of this country never intended for us to be a superpower. We kind of fell into that roll after FDR got us into WW2 to bailout his bosom buddy Joseph Stalin. Maybe someday the history books will actually tell the real story as to why and how we got swindled into WW2. But for now, lets all understand that the United Nations was a plan that was hatched between Stalin and FDR with Merry Olde England – so broke and in debt to the U.S., its former colony – happy to tag along just to survive. The UN is and was nothing but a plan to bring Communism to the entire world. Don’t believe me? Check out its history. And ask the question “Just how many wars has the UN prevented?”

            Our country, The United States Of America, was born and bred on a free market economy. That free market economy is now being dealt its final death blow by the currant political administration, aka “OBAMANATION”.

            SFC, have another decaff, sit back, take a deep breath and relax a little.

            • Ahh… Mr. Rowe, Sir
              I feel like Jim Carey…”Was that over the top?…sometimes I just can’t tell”
              I’ve been dealing with the enemy, close…the past few days. The enemy that is costing us, the US, this war, a LTC here at my COP doing inspection and drill down. I’m preparing a piece. I vented a little strongly at you. I know, from reading your writings, you have a good grasp of this stuff.

              That being said, I always like the old movie clips of the tarp being raised….etc. It is a visual that coneys a universal message. Yeh, my tribe, from which I am 2x removed, tried that stuf, I believe we come from the same tribe. PS decaf is for sissies.

          • See that you agree with Barry Sadler about the MG 42. Never got to try one myself but heard they were pretty neat.

            • Mr. trynosky
              The Norweigans still use a close variant to this day. The rate of fire on the MG 42 was , what, 1,800 rpm. geez. that’s minigun fast.

            • Trynoski, Sir. Send USweapon a missive to get my e-mail. I’ll send you the narative of this last contact that we are using for witness statement to generate awards. It’s dry reading and army bland, but will give you a peek inside.

      • It seems we always have to have an enemy to focus on.The terrorists at the moment should be enough to carry us ahead for a few years more,then maybe it will be the Russians turn again.

        • Vladimir Putin has and never will be a friend to the United States. He is KGB. Period.

          • Mr. Rowe
            Have you send some of Putins propoganda, his kung fu video, pics of him hunting etc…?

            During our train up we had a SGM with us, tabbed out, old but hard, we love him. As an excersise in time killing one of the younger troops ( mid 30s, this is the old mans war here) started a conversation “who would win a fight between SGM Bad or Putin?”. Many well thought arguments were presented, this was not to be passed over or taken lightly. After all the youngers had their say I weighed in. I get that luxury of last word at times. I submitted that “Putin has killed many, but I argue that he had folks , other than he, do most of his killing for him; SGM Bad did all his own killing. SGM Bad wins”. Now you see how we spend our time.

  12. Calf Roper says:

    But what would China gain by an invasion, or takeover, of the U.S.? Currently, we import way more from China that we export to them. We are a net buyer of their goods because they can be made cheaper over there. A ton of U.S. money pours into China each year. In turn, China buys our debt as we are moving away from industrial production and into a service-based economy.

    Let’s say that China somehow orchestrates the downfall of the U.S. Where does that leave China? It just took out its largest customer so its revenues fall off of a cliff. It’s production has to be cut back because its largest customer just went belly up. China has layoffs and economic slowdown. The U.S., now destroyed by China, cannot payoff its debt so China eats a huge write-off, which further complicates its economy. For China, its a lose-lose situation for the U.S. to go belly up. What could it possibly gain?

    Would China want to make us into an Imperial Colony? It would have to know that a nation armed such as we are would fight any invading force tooth and nail.

    I think the larger question to worry about is why we intentionally put ourselves in a weak position such as we are in. And I think the answer lies in “elitism”.

    The U.S. powers that be want the U.S. to be this utopia of higher-minded individuals who care for the planet and love all things that exist. The elitists don’t want the U.S. to produce anything because that kind of work is beneath the U.S. Have those third world countries produce our goods for dirt cheap and then borrow from them to keep them afloat. That’s why the elitists like socialism. It gives them such control over our country and furthers their ultimate goal.

  13. esomhillholler says:

    China will not EVER invade or attack the US. How do you know you say? Because they don’t have to. Little by little (Or more according to Obama) they are buying us up, and thanks to The Socialist Liberals we’re having a fire sale of our country. Us is right. This could be the biggest disaster of all for the United States. It’s funny to me to listen to Obama and Congress berate banks for living outside their means, when they are doing it every days on a Trillion dollar scale, with much more to come if we can’t stop them.

    • Karl;

      Check out what just happened in the south china sea.

      It is in China’s best interest that this nation be subverted into their globalization ideas.

      Please do not make the sad mistake that the Romans made with the Barbarians. Underestimate your enemy and you will die.

      China is our enemy, whether we like it or not. Russia, in its currant state of disarray needs to cling onto its closest threat in order to survive. “Make your worst enemies your best friends, that is until you are more powerful than they are.” = KGB training manual.

  14. Kristian says:


    I was listening to the pundit pit on Fox & Friends this morning and even Democrats are starting to worry about all the money that is being spent. I don’t know that it will make much of a difference but it makes me feel better to know that obummer’s own party is beginning to question the wisdom of all this spending. I’ve been reading this post off and on all day and I have to say I find it very scary to think that China could indeed take us over one day. Anyone remember the movie Red Dawn? Well, we may not be as far from something like that as we may think.

    • Black Flag says:

      There is no way and no how for China to take over the USA militarily.

      It is ‘impossible’ in the strictest meaning of the word.

      • Military takeovers are pase in a civilized world. It’s a modality left for petty dictators. There is more than one way to ‘take over’, If communism succeeds in taking over our nation, it will by chipping away at our freedoms through changes in laws and policies.

      • Black Flag says:


        … it will by chipping away at our freedoms through changes in laws and policies.

        And you haven’t noticed the past 100 years in America?

        • Yes, I have, and it has been slow. However, I have also seen how the erosion of freedoms can accelerate when the children are indoctrinated (I’m originally from Cuba)………and this has been fairly recent (historically speaking) in our schools. These children are the most adept at the technological forms of communication, another accelerating factor.

  15. Let’s look at the Donald Trump thing. If you owe me $ 5,000 you are in trouble. If You owe me $ 5,000,000, I am in trouble. The Chinese will have to take a bath on our debt.

    On the other hand, when we no longer have a customer for our paper, the game is really up. It will have to be back to the drawing board for us. What that will look like is anyone’s guess.

    We had the chance to ally with Russia, we blew that big time. Wanted to keep that old cold war just chugging along for some reason.

    It is kind of hard to understand this whole hegemony thing. The concept itself should be out of date. Obviously it is no longer necessary to invade and occupy another country. Economically isolating it will do just fine. Why one country or form of government (China, Russia) should feel that it is necessary to “dominate” escapes me. From a psychological standpoint, the only real reason to do so would seem to have an enemy that your people will hate more than they hate their own government.

  16. Black Flag says:

    China will still trade with the west, just on different terms – instead of real goods for paper, it will be for real goods.

    Depending on the reaction of the western governments to the economic disaster, normalization of international trade will occur in 5 years (if the government fail in their tasks) or 25 to 50 years (if the government succeeds in their tasks) – yes, our big hope is the government is a total failure in their programs.

  17. Black Flag says:

    From an inside pundit….

    The Fed announced its intention to purchase an additional $1 trillion worth of U.S. treasury and agency debt.

    The purchases, of course, will be made with money created out of thin air through the Fed’s printing presses.

    Few can doubt that they will persist with these operations until the economy returns to its former health.

    Whether or not this can ever be accomplished with a printing press alone has never been seriously considered. Bernanke himself admits that we are in uncharted waters, with no map or compass, just simply a hope that more dollars are the answer.

    Rather than solving our problems, more inflation will only add to the crisis. Falling asset prices, the credit crunch, declining consumer spending, bankruptcies, foreclosures, and layoffs are all part of the necessary rebalancing of our economy.

    These wrenching movements, however painful, are the market’s attempts to resolve the serious problems at the root of our bubble economy. Attempts to literally paper-over these problems will lead to disaster.

    Now that the Fed has recklessly shown its hand, the mad dash to get out of Treasuries and dollars should not be far off.

    The more the Fed prints to buy bonds the less the dollar is worth.

    Holders of our debt (read China and Japan) understand this dynamic. We must expect that they will not only refuse to buy new bonds, but they will look to unload those bonds they already own.

    Under normal circumstances, if creditors grew concerned that inflation was eating into their returns, the Fed would raise interest rates to entice them to buy.

    However, the Fed will avoid this course of action as it fears higher rates are too heavy a burden for our debt-laden economy to bear.

    To maintain artificially low rates, the Fed will be forced to purchase trillions more debt then it expects as it becomes the only buyer in a seller’s market.

    Just last week, Chinese premier Wen Jiabao voiced concern about his country’s massive investments in U.S. government debt. In the most unequivocal statement yet by the Chinese leadership on this issue, Wen made it plain that he was concerned with depreciation, not default. With his fears now officially confirmed by the Fed statement, we must wonder when the Chinese will finally change course.

    There is a growing consensus that if China no longer wants to buy our bonds, we can simply print the money and buy them ourselves.

    This naïve view fails to consider the consequences implicit in such a change.

    When the Treasury sells bonds to China, no new dollars are printed. Instead, China prints yuan which it then uses to buy treasuries. This effectively allows America to export its inflation to China.

    However, now that we will be printing the money ourselves, the full inflationary impact will fall directly on us.

    With such a policy in place, America has now become a banana republic. It won’t be too long before our living standards reflect our new status. Got Gold?

    • I told the blog this morning that Gideon Gono from the Central Bank of Zimbabwe had been hired to print money.When this trillion was announced,the dollar fell immediately,but the markets,both foreign and domestic have reacted respectfully.Is this a loan or a gift? This should make inflation start in a big way and stave off the dreaded deflation that everyone’s worried about.I want prices to go down,they’re too high.House values are ridiculously high.

  18. Starting a central site for conservative thought, blogs, events, etc. This blog has been added to the site. Please spread the word. Feel free to suggest ideas etc. To view go to, http://www.aresay.blogspot.com/

  19. Black Flag says:

    G. A. Rowe

    COMMUNISM is and has always been (since Karl Marx invented it) the absolute enemy of freedom.

    All Government is the enemy of freedom.

    Marxism et al, is simply another form.

    Communism, as an economic theory, is not itself a form of politics, no more then Capitalism is a form of politcs.

    Communism works, and works very, very well — for your family.

    “From each according to your ability, to each according to their need” is the beautiful way for you to take care of your family.

    I don’t expect my daughter to trade economic output with me value to value of what I provide. She’d starve.

    Communism requires another connection between people – an emotional connection – not a rational one.

    However, using Capitalism in a family would be a disaster.

    Yet, Capitalism works very well between emotionally disinterested people.

    I don’t care two hoots about you, so if you want my goods, I want equal economic value back.

    The problem always exist when we confuse the scope of either economic system.

    For Communism to work beyond a family, Marx found he needed to artifically create illusion of emotional bond (calling everyone “brother” or “sister”) and failing that to force people to surrender their goods.

    But I ask you, how is that any different from your system?

    You want to force me to surrender my goods to the government too!

    And you’re willing to agree to people using violence to force their belief upon other people.

    You’re only issue is you simply don’t like the color of these guys shirts.

  20. If Americans had a brain they would tell the goverment where they could stick all their handouts. The banks should say hey I would rather go under than the US go under because of my stupity. The thing is Banks and corprations and states do not have to take the government hand outs…..people livig on welfare should send their checks back and say hey “I’d rather work for peanuts than allow the whole country to go under”. It doesn’t matter if China wants to invade or not…they want to be the big boy on the block and all this debt holds us hostage to a nation that is not very friendly toward us.
    Our economy needs to take a contraction in order to correct it self and since we have become a nation of debt we better figure out a way of paying it off instead of making more. If I have to keep my debts in check so should the government. Debt is the problem not the solution.
    I am going to state this one more time AMERICA NEEDS TO BECOME A SELF SUFFICENT NATION AGAIN….and very rapidly. How long are the people of this nation going to expect the government to do what they were not designed to do. It is not a governments place to make sure we have everything and prevent failure.

    • Black Flag says:

      China is very friendly with us.

      Would you lend trillions of dollars to your enemy???

      Do you call me evil if I stop lending you money because you can’t repay me?

      Do you hate me because you can’t repay what you borrowed?

      We cannot be self-sufficient (that is, have no trade with other nations) without a drop in your life-style to 1930’s level.

      • BF
        Depends on what you call Friendly….to me it is more like they just tolerate us.
        I might if I was greedy…..probably wouldn’t care were I got my money.
        Nope didn’t call them evil and I hope they do stop lending to us, wish them and any other nation had never started.
        Nope don’t hate them.
        Yes we can….be completely self sufficient doesn’t mean we don’t trade….we will it means that we don’t quit making steel, we don’t quit making clothes we don’t quit growing food, we don’t quit producing oil….it means we do all that we can from technology down to farming….we don’t conceed our postion to supply our own needs. It is like growing a garden…..does it mean because it is easier and a little cheaper to buy green beans than grow them that I need to allow someone to hold me hostage for green beans? What happens when BF buys all the greens beans and I can’t get any unless I give him my first born….. some things are worth the extra price. Like I said it is an American problem….you stay self sufficient or you pay the consequences…what are we will to pay?

      • BF
        Just exactly what is the problem with a 1930’s life style? Do I have to own 3 vehicles? Do I have to own 3 TV’s. Do I have to own 3 closets full of clothes? The 30’s had their problems ut we have ours too. We have allowed our wants to over shadow reality. Wanting something does not mean we have to have it to survive. Everything above ample food, warm shelter and clean clothes is a want. That is what the debt problem is all about our wants were hurting us!

      • Black Flag says:

        Because the 30’s lifestyle will set you back to

        – no emergency care, you get hurt badly, you’ll die.

        – prices for commodities so high, you’ll be lucky to afford to eat once a day.

        – lucky to have a job, which probably won’t pay that much.

        Grave threats to your family as roving gangs of hungry men search for food.

        • Since we have emergency care today…we would still have it.
          Price of food so high now people can barely afford to eat.
          Most people today are lucky to have a job. Although they may pay well you still can’t buy very much.
          Roving gangs now threatening your family.
          Good Lord we just went backwards 80 years!!!
          The only difference is we have indoor plumbing, lights and phones.

        • Black Flag says:

          We couldn’t afford the emergency care, nor would many of the facilities and equipment be available.

          Food prices today are so cheap – but that will change, especially for regions that need to import food.

          Phones need infrastructure and that will fail badly.

          • BF
            Maybe but, since the government has seen fet to make sure no one is turned away from emergency care unless all Drs & nurses quit working there will be eemergency care.
            Food prices are not cheap most shoppers will tell you food prices have doubled over the last several months.
            Infrastructure for phones is not what it use to be due to cell phones….that is the reason all the phone companies have down sized and bought each other out.
            Besides my point was….in order to correct the economy there will have to be some correction meaning that in alot of ways we will have to do like in the 30’s and put our needs ahead of our wants. We will survive without alot of luxuries.

          • Black Flag says:

            I do not think you understand what will happen when the economy resets.

            This is not merely a loss of your extra car or TV.

            It will be the loss of almost everything you have or expect.

            Review the economic history of Argentina – I’ll try to find the post of an Argentinian’s personal experience as a small model of what might happen.

            Our disaster is an order of magnitude greater.

            • BF,
              I do understand, but my faith has never been in government nor in things. I have never expected to live a life of luxury…only a life of provision. There are lots of people right now living through just that….they have lost everything. They wonder where they will live and how they will buy food. The problem is our government has choosen to throw money at the problem….which might help in the short run…but in the long run it has just put off the problem for a short time….it will be back worse than ever.

              • USWeapon says:

                Interesting comment Amazed1. Black Flag has written a post on that very thing which I just posted tonight.

  21. SFC Dick says:

    Oh boy, here comes my Bill Mahr moment where I pop some quip and my ……well you get the idea.

    Why do we have to be the “superpower”?
    Did it serve any purpose for, say, New York to attempt to maintain super power status over…kentucky in the early days of our “federation”.

  22. China and Russia are not going to become BFF’s any time soon. Way too much distrust and cultural variation there. Russia is happy to ally itself with Iran, and keep it’s eye on it’s former states on its western borders, in hopes of grabbing them back and with Iran, control oil routes to much of the industrialized world. Venezuela and Cuba provide nice orchestra seats at the great American show. China’s got it’s own agenda and it’s economic health is linked with ours, at least for the time being. But while they spent $600B in Stimulus to strategically place themselves in the power position when the economy revives, the US has allocated it’s resources in the most idiotic manner possible. Our demise will come from the enemy within. The framers knew this; better take heed.

    BTW, call your Senators and Congressmen and scream bloody murder that they better not pass the Big O’s budget, or our demise will come more quickly than we can imagine.

  23. Are we seeing the beginning of “The Alliance” here? I can’t believe a good “Firefly” fan like USWeapon didn’t comment on the parallels. It was my first thought when I saw that merged US federal flag and chinese flag in the yin/yang at the top of the post. Wish I could take the subject more seriously.

    • Kent,

      I wasn’t sure that anyone but you would get the reference or perhaps I would have written a few Mandarin lines into the post. LOL. I haven’t had the opportunity to check out Joss’s new show Doll House yet or Nathans Fillian’s new Castle show. Hope they are good when I get the chance to see them.

    • Not alliance . . . . Try SkyNet 😉

  24. Vinnster says:

    “Is the countdown already started towards the demise of our United States?”

    Depending on how you define “demise”, yes. We hit our peck in the early 1970s. As we all know hind sight is 20/20 and anyone who has studied history knows all societies/empires go through a series of periods or phases where they rise peak and diminish. In almost every case the peak is marked at a point where they stopped expanding their territory…and the reason they stop expanding was usually related to their inability to fiance the expansion due to monies being diverted to other matters the empire deemed more important.

    America has never been about expanding geographically by conquering other peoples lands and keeping them. Our expansion was directed towards discovery, at first in inventions and intellectual property which lead to the only frontier left to expand into…outer space.

    In the big picture, and I suggest history will mark America’s peak at the moment we canceled the Apollo program in the 70s. We did so to divert funds to the ever-expanding social programs that continue to consume, and will continue to consume at even faster rates, any excess monies to finance expansion.

    With America facing 50-75 Trillion dollars in future debts, America will never find the funds to go to the moon or Mars except as a “passenger” on some other entities ships.

    As Liberalism spreads its cancer of forcing equal outcome by stealing from the producers to buy the non-producers votes, America will just hang on and survive. Our days as the world’s leader and superpower are on the downside of rise, peak, decline curve.

  25. One of the purposes of the military is to project power to _prevent_ the need for military intervention. I don’t see it mentioned here or in most blogs about the military but the truth is that most of the military runs on oil.

    So oil must be factored into our military readiness. Without it large portions of our military are virtually useless.

    Now consider who controls most of the known foreign oil reserves in the world and their attitude toward us and it makes for an even shakier outlook.

    Couple with that Congressional reticence to develop our own oil reserves and we are weakened even further.

    And remember that Iran can close the Straight of Hormuz any time they want to.

    It doesn’t much matter what technology we have if we can’t deploy it. Just another factor but a meaningful one I think.

    As for China, we already know how this administration is going to “deal” with China. Deal in quotes because I’m referring to “exchange” rather than “negotiate” Basically, the sell-out of America.

    Does anyone remember that the Clinton administration approved the sale of secret long range missle guidance technology to China in return for campaign contributions? And now Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State. What better position to “deal” from?


    Oh yeah, and China now has demonstrated the ability to shoot down the satellites that our military relies on more and more every day. Well, duh.

    So while we may be good at thumping our chests in public and declaring our military unparallelled in the world, that may not, in practice, be true.

    If China refuses to further finance our government’s binge, where do you suppose President Obama is going to cut to support his domestic policies?

    Keep two things about President Obama in mind at all times: is a very intelligent man; and he is a dedicated Marxist.

    As such, he has no interest in foreign affairs, only in changing America to a Marxist State and he is succeeding rather well so far.

    It’s been said that a strong national economy underlies a strong national defense.

    Some think that President Obama is failing at manipulating the economy. I say he is succeeding in attaining his goals. Once private wealth is destroyed, the State will control the citizens completely. If the military is further weakened as a side effect, that just strengthens his own position.

    No, China won’t invade. They will, however, control the United States through a puppet government. No need to invade.

    • Black Flag says:

      For what purpose?

      China has no interest in controlling the USA – what’s the point?

  26. Calf Roper says:

    Interesting and very pertinent article about how China’s central banking governor just proposed a move away from dollar holdings and into a new global currency.


  27. Black Flag says:

    G. A. Rowe and Karl

    Please do not make the sad mistake that the Romans made with the Barbarians. Underestimate your enemy and you will die.

    Let’s not make a mistake of making a false enemy.

    The Romans attacked the “Barbarians” for two centuries – and when the “Barbarians” overran Rome, they didn’t do to much – except end the overt violence of Rome over most of Europe.

    The fall of Rome started the greatest increase in human freedom of that time – as well as the largest increase in human productivity and population increase – once being free of Roman tax collectors, production soared.

    Global cooling ended this – but that’s another story.

    China is our enemy, whether we like it or not.

    China nor Russia is our enemy, unless we make them so.

  28. John-From-China says:

    It is a good chance for us Chinese to control the US through different alternatives—“smart power”–just as what the US Sec. of the State Hillary Clinton had said.

    In economy sense,the US government need the Chinese one to support for its economic stimulus packages, but,as we all know, there is no “free meal” in this world, in other words,Chinese gov. can lend the US money on a “conditional” basis.Right here “conditional” exactly means that Chinese gov. thinks what is in favor of the its “core” interests adn values. Hence, Chinese gov.indirectly controls Mr.Obama. If China stops providing the finance to US, of course, China hurts, but, do not forget, I would say, the US is nearly “dead”, hey buddy, tell me who can support the US in such a hard time, Japan? Perhaps, but even Japan itself is in deep recession, considering its national interests and the US interests, I guess that you can know what the Japanese gov. would do.

    In military sense, what I see is really a “game show”—despite the fact that US is the so-call #1 military power is the world,but,as we all watch on TVs the scene whenever US warplane sent a lagre number coffins of US servicemen back from warfields in Afghanistan, Iraq and other plces, and think about the social/political chaos in those places, it is hard for me to connect the US with the so-called #1 military superpower. The reasoning is simple and direct—how do you compare China and Afghanistan,Iraq–population,natural resources, military preparation etc. What I really mean does not limit to this point, if the US dare to challenge China, I would call for the Hillary-Clinton-edition “samrt power” to start—to establish the global-anti-US union which is composed North Korea, Cuba,Venezuela,Sudan, etc. along with Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,people in Middle East and many others, why should China to conflict with the US direcly? No need, absolutely unnecessary, because the US already have lots lots enemies around the globe. What we Chinese need to do is to unite them, train them, finance them. I do not think what I have said is a new idea, instead, it is an old-fashioned tool used by many nations worldwide.Arms are important in war, but,never forget, brains and wit are vital as well. The US is so much more powerful than Iraq and Afghanistan,no matter in economy sense and/or in military sense but why do it fail to control situations there (in addition, the US has it NATO friends there!)I think we Chinese must learn carefully from the US lessons and constantly change Chinese political/military policies as the world situations change.Remember, we all hope for peace, but, if war is our nation’s final choice, we Chinese should be well-prepared and well-organized. Also, I think Mr.Obama is very smart, otherwise, how can he be elceted the US president????!!!

    It is high time for us all to wake up—never to have fantasies,the real world situation is dangerous and changing all the time—as it was, it had been for centuries. In my opinion, no matter what happens, China and the US, I would like to say to the both,”Buddy, take care, have fun!”

    • See what I thought was going to be a well thought out and interesting reply devolved into nonsense. You are failing to take any of the realities into account in order to balance the equation. Economically, China needs the US as much as we need her. China’s economic rise has been on the back of the American consumer buying Chinese manufactured goods. We stop doing that and China hurts too.

      As for the military aspect… you need to learn a little more about world conflict and modern warfare. Iraq and Afghanistan are not fighting military might with military might. Their tactics are effective and I don’t want to detract from that. But to think that a war between China and the US would look anything like that is naive at best. As for them getting together a global coalition… we’ll see.

      You said: Also, I think Mr.Obama is very smart, otherwise, how can he be elceted the US president????!!!
      That is where you, from China, have a very limited view of US politics. Read the rest of this blog site and the comments from the people here. There are plenty of answers to that question that don’t end with Obama is smart….

      Thanks for the comments and for visiting the blog. I hope you will stay and participate in the conversations.

    • Black Flag says:

      Let’s be clear.

      If China stops financing the USA, it does not mean the end of the USA.

      It simply places inflation onto the USA, and not on China.

      China has absorbed the US inflation from its economic growth.

      Two things will happen on the retraction of Chinese credit.

      US inflation goes way up.

      China collapses into a recession.

      Do not confuse individual reactions to debt as equal to nation’s reaction to debt.

      People can’t tax nor create money. Nations can. Caution in extracting examples from personal experience.

  29. John-From-China says:

    The point what is the US economic situation problem?…Suppose two boys playing in the backyard, the short one says,”Hey, big brother, blow that color balloon…”; the tall one answers this way—keeping on blowing the balloon with no stop, then, the balloon itself is 1 time bigger than its original size, gradually, 2 times, 3 times, eventually, it bursts into pieces. The hint here suggests that the so-called “invisible” economy,i.e. the service industry in general, but not limited to–finance,banking,T-bonds and T-bills,etc. is over-valued seriously compared with the “solid” economy–manufacturing & industrial activities. In short, even the US has the relatively high productivity efficiency in many aspects of some certain manufacturing, still, the value of the “solid” economy is much lower than that of the “invisible” economy, i.e. the bonuses and benefit packages of the top manufacturing CEOs are nothing at all when compared with those of CEOs of financial institutions, let alone the salary levels of general manufacturing blue-collars when compared with those white-collar executives on the Wall Street. In real world, the following equation applies, total economy value =invisible economy value + solid economy value, if the wealth and social welfare created (as long as you know what the wording “created” exactly means here!)by the Wall Street is 10 times or even more times bigger than that of “solid” economy, then you would expect the bubbles—as already shown in the above example.

    The hidden secret here is–as a nation, no matter whatever target you hope to hit, you must lay down the solid foundation for the upper floors—-as in the case of a high skycraper. In other words, without manufacturing & industrial activities, what does finance, insurance, banking, stocks and bonds
    all these “invisible” stuffs mean to you?

    The dilema rises—the US has always hoped to transfer the low-end, labor-intensive, pollution-oriented industries to the “3rd world”, still, kept the cutting edge of know-how, design and “core value” business at home, but, once the process has begun, it would not stop—on the other side, the “3rd world” countries have gradually mastered the relevant skills and technology—or even better than the US technology. Examples? Chinese computers, Japanese cars, South Korean electronic appliances, you can name more…

    All you guys say that without Chinese money, the US ONLY get the inflation, say it again, only inflation? If that is the case, I do not think Mr.Obama and his cabinet would have so MANY headaches—it really hurts, and spreads quickly from the gov. level to every individual family nationwide,otherwise, why do you often mention the wording “bailout” so frequently from newspaper to website? Without the Chinese fund, show me your reasoning and your choices how to BAILOUT…

    Hopefully, China would learn from the US—no matter right’s or wrong’s, and seek the alternative for “not-too-much-reply-on-the US!”

  30. Black Flag says:

    See my guest post – “Economic Realities” here on this site –

    – “just inflation”…. if it was so benign.

    We’ll talk some more on this later…

  31. Hey gang:

    Nice to be back on the boards. Again USW brings a more than interesting — effectual article to a sector of the American conscienceness. And in turn hat tip to him and all of you lending your expertise.

    I loathe long comment postings so I’ll just do this; please see American Age and a series of ‘ethical articles’ written about China.


    There are about six to seven articles in this series. Anyone remember the sanctions re: World Health Organization v. China? How about the Human Civil Rights sanctions? How about it taking a 2/3rds Congressional approval for the USA to even trade with China? Keep up the great work!!

    The Thinker a.k.a. American Age a.k.a. jon-paul


  1. […] was originally going to do a post on China and its potential future as a world power that will rival*, if not eclipse, the USA. However I’ve been surfing the chaotic waves of the internet and found […]

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