March Towards Socialism Part 4

socialism1We have reached the next section of the “March Towards Socialism” Series. This one is going to be significantly shorter as I simply did not have the time to research and write as much as I would have liked the last couple of days. Again I think it is important to understand what my purpose was in doing this series. First and foremost, I wanted to show that this is not a new movement that Obama all of the sudden switched on. He is merely operating at a quicker pace than than we are used to in the march. If we have been ordered on a march to socialism, he has merely issued the order of “Double Time… March”. And it looks as though we may be told soon to just sprint for all we can. The question is whether we follow his order and go on until we have a massive coronary, or whether we stop, look at the politicians and say “Enough”.

wake-up-fascismI felt it was important that we see this history because when it comes down to it, this is not the Democrats marching us, or the Republicans marching us. It is government who has taken us to the precipice. I will address that statement and how we can reverse course later, but the important learning is that we cannot blame democrats for this. They are merely operating at a quicker pace than Republicans. The Republican party walked us towards fascism (which is a more accurate description of the path we are on). The Democratic Party sprints us towards it. But make no mistake, neither party has turned us around and moved us away from it. 

Another important learning here is how the actions used and taken during times of crisis take advantage of popular sentiment and use it (the crisis) perversely to enact sweeping changes. And not one time in history have those changes ended up being a good thing. It is why the arguments against my “idealism”, because it isn’t rooted in “common sense” and “reality of the world today” ring moot. We have followed your common sense arguments about corporations and education and welfare and national health care in the past. And in every single instance the result was not good for our country. Yet now you tell me the “common sense” argument of global warming, corporate regulation, increased taxes on the wealthy, economic equality, and national health care are going to work this time. And I say no thanks, I will stick to my idealism and attempt to set things right.

Idealists formed this country, and did a tremendous job of setting it up as best they could for success. Your “common sense” (which is not common sense at all) arguments have been ruining it ever since. So I say “Enough”.

Let me say up front that I know that I am going to miss SO MANY things in this quick jaunt through recent history. So I will rely on you good readers again to add what you feel is relevant. But I want to hit on a few quick things that I remember or have researched that add to the discussion.

Lyndon Johnson and the “Great Society”

lyndon-johnsonPerhaps the next largest step towards the overreaching government that we see today came from the 36th President of the United States. The Great Society program, with its name coined from one of Johnson’s speeches, became Johnson’s agenda for Congress in January 1965: aid to education, attack on disease, Medicare, urban renewal, beautification, conservation, development of depressed regions, a wide-scale fight against poverty, control and prevention of crime, and removal of obstacles to the right to vote. Congress, at times augmenting or amending, enacted many of Johnson’s recommendations.

Johnson decided he was first going to wage a war on ignorance by investing in education. His sweeping landslide victory in 1964, coupled with a liberal congress, led to the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965. It was meant to expire in 1970 but has been re-authorized every 5 years since (including the 2001 extension known as “No Child Left Behind”). This was the first time that massive federal funds were infused into education. And as we all know, government getting massively involved in anything will surely ruin it. The public education system is no exception, and we have discussed thoroughly how lost and hopeless the public education system is today. That year also saw the passage of the Higher Education Act of 1965, because government screwing up our children only until age 18 wasn’t good enough.

Johnson also launched the now famous “War on Poverty” and began with the Economic Opportunity Act of 1965, which was central to expanding government creating a dependence on government. The Act included several social programs “to promote the health, education, and general welfare of the poor”. Johnson further created the dependency with the 1965 Medicare amendment to the Social Security Act. Lower income people received medical care funded by the government through the Medicaid program. The Great Society legislations were wide and sweeping and while many do not bother to see the impact they had, they continued to take us baby steps towards fascism and socialism. 

The Vietnam War was a bane for President Johnson and the realities on the ground were often in stark contrast to the reports that he gave in press conferences, leading to public distrust. It could be argued that had the Vietnam War not been going as badly as it was, that the Great Society movement of Johnson could have had nearly as much impact on the march towards socialism as the New Deal legislation did. As it stood, he lost a lot of steam in his one full term because of the war, and in that way the war delayed the march just a bit. 

richard-nixon1The Presidencies of Nixon, Ford, and Carter were full of their own controversies and steps in the fascist direction. 

Domestically, Nixon implemented new economic policies which called for wage and price controls and the abolition of the gold standard. Both bad moves for the country. BlackFlag has provided information at length on the folly of the fiat money system and how movement away from the gold standard was a key mistake. He drastically increased the payout of programs like Medicaid and Social Security from 6.3% of GDP to 8.9%. The Democratic Congress passed the Economic Stabilization Act of 1970, giving Nixon power to set wages and prices (instead of letting a free market do its own thing and thus self correct). During the Nixon administration, the United States established many government agencies, including the EPA and OSHA. He was also responsible for the Clean Air Act of 1970. 

Again I apologize for the brevity of this particular installation in the series. I am well aware that there are steps that Ford and Carter took that helped us along as well. But I will leave it to some of the more educated among us to tell us from the top of their heads what would take me another 3 hours to research. Part 5 will post in 3 days or so and will focus on Clinton and GW Bush. Finally Part 6 will look at the more recent history and the rapid increase in pace towards government control over the last 6 years or so. Obviously that is where we will tackle the warp speed of the Obama administration.


  1. AAARRRGH! Not Socialism!!!! Capitalism is working so damn well!
    Thank god for this blog, and my blog: BritishRepublican

  2. Well spoken and written. I find that those in power seldom wish to reliquish it. I think that the forefathers understood that governments eventually need to feed off the people and make them the servants of the state.
    I just happened across your blog by random dumb luck, but I will be back.

  3. Actually I wanted to wait for part 6 before I answer but we have to ask ourselves where this is going.

    Maybe it’s enough to look at Europe since they are 10-20 years ahead. You can see the decline there everywhere from London to Paris to Berlin. The PIG states (Portugal, Italy, Greek – not my idea) will go bankrupt first since their depts are completely out of control.

    “Greece is on the brink of bankruptcy despite the fact that the global recession has yet to hit the country with full force. Strikes are paralyzing the country and the EU is putting on the pressure. But the government is still trying to put a positive spin on things.”,1518,617915,00.html

    If you look at the riots in France, Germany and Sweden I see bad weather coming up. The riots are mainly not covered by the mass media (you can find the videos on youtube however or speak with people who actually live there).

    Do you know why the riots are not out of control yet although there are enough unqualified and aggressive youths to start them in Europe? Because of the welfare! France and Germany pump billions into these idiots every year to support them with free food, housing, healthcare, consumption and money for children (bad idea since it’s like fueling cancer). The aim is to keep them satisfied but someday there will be no money left.

    • Richmond Spitfire says:

      Hi Manuael,

      I look at Europe and I know that I sure as heck don’t want to live like that!

      Thanks for the point!

    • esomhillgazette says:

      I look at the entire EU and I think, OMG! What about any of them would make the US want to be like that, or a member Nation of it? I have seen nothing from Europe that would make me want to emulate them. I have seen absolutely ZERO that would make me want to use either Fascism or Socialism as a National Governmental System.

      But then, I am a member in good standing (I hope) of the VLDG Party. So why would I possibly want a govenment all up in my grille? I agree US that the reason we haven’t seen a grassroots movement before on this is that the steps were taken so gradually that most didn’t even notice what was happening. The Wild Hog Syndrome if you will. But since Obama has taken office, the changes have been coming so Fast and Furious that any half-brained moron (I qualify) can see it. The question now is how long will it be before the Nations citizens rise up as one and say, ENOUGH! Or will that ever happen at all?

      • Gradual steps like your brakes wearing down over time. The one time you hit them and oh sh!t…….

      • Progressivism will make certain 55% of Americans will have all the goodies necessary to carry the election next time around. The fall from the cliff will be well padded by the bodies of that hated minority “the rich” and the satiated masses fed well on the fat of those rich will barely notice and certainly not care. When the progressives can no longer deliver, they’ll just shift the blame to another “class of thieves” by lowering the tax bar further.

        Of course there will be those in the upper echelon who have a way to retain their wealth. Its not like O isn’t paying back all those favors he coddled while trying to take his party’s nomination, not to mention the presidency, and there’s a lot of those with deep pockets he’s owing.

    • Manual,

      Glad to here another perspective. I have only heard about France and Spain.
      France may be trying to shift direction, and will be an interesting study if they are successful.

      ESOM, I coined the VLDG phrase, hope that makes me a member, if so you are surely welcome, may make you president. You do have that “Maverick” personality. LOL

      • LOI, I thought you were the Founding Father of the Party! And I don’t want to be President. US or maybe even You or JAC would make a much better condidate for that position! LMAO

    • CanadianFox says:

      The only thing I have time to write is this (and it is for USW and for everyone who blogs here). Then why don’t we come to grips with the fact we are an aging civilization/democracy/ or whatever you want to call it. Learn from the mistakes Europe has made, learn from the mistakes of the past and put forth our best compromised strategy of “modified capitalism”? The current financial mess should have taught us that some relevant regulation is necessary for any society. I go back to what I have said before and believe. It is OK to learn from the past, but you need to live and think in the present to solve today’s problems, but always keep your eyes to the future to try and get the best desired effect for future generations. And is it just me that has this perception – how many really “real superpowers” can you name that have more than two political parties and REALLY ARE a world power. The more parties/opinions you have, the more you have to compromise. That is what I believe makes those countries weaker. It will really hurt us if the Republicans don’t get it to together and end up splitting in two. And I think that is a very possible scenario. Fuel for blogging thoughts.

      • This mess was not a result of “pure capitalism” which would have invested (lending IS investing to the corporate entity) only in business/real estate situations that under the acid test were completely sustainable unless the assets tied to a default were deemed very much desirable. Politicians caused this mess pure and simple. They make the rules which make no capitalistic sense whatsoever. (default-credit swaps… bless you Mr Bill) All they know of business is that they can provide a politician with a large influx of cash come the next election cycle and will require something in return but that happens later so…

        Buying votes with candy in the form of grants and special projects is not anything capitalism wants involved in. “Politically correct” rhetoric is in the theater of business? Hell no. The name says it all. Separate the two from day 1 on and this NEVER happens. Of course a whopping amount of “urban” development never happens but we’re talking about pure capitalism which might not have a “heart” but it does have a perfect balance sheet.

        Now the Canadian system contains checks against what happened to most of the rest of the world and received a special tip of the hat from Steve Forbes years ago for exactly that in place. Its always been hard to get loans in the Great White North (unless you are doing well enough to be borrowing until something matures or have a super flush job) and that’s indeed the way it should be.

        As for the debt ridden masses, they spent excessively because they deemed themselves DESERVING and in the end indeed got what they DESERVED.

        • No Alan, unfortunately, they did not get what they deserved, WE got what they deserved.

        • CanadianFox says:

          Alan, appreciate the comments but where I sit in this is as a lender to business people, I see it somewhat different. Now where my community and place is in the food chain, we are pretty small potatoes. But the concepts are pretty much the same. In our case we never changed our standards/regulations (why we are so strong), of which our politicians – both Republican and Democrat -allowed to be watered down and slowly stripped away over the years. I.E. the savings and loan debacle and the consequent “boom”, “bust” bubbles we have recently gone through. Now that was due to greedy capitalists, at the top of the food chain, pure and simple. Now look at what those same greedy capitalists are doing now to tax payers (who helped bail them out) with credit cards. WE NEED good sound regulations to keep these kinds of jerks in control. There was a reason after WWII why we had so many years of prosperity without “boom/bust” scenarios. Once the greedy capitalists figured out how to get to politicians to water down and strip away sound regulations (that had been based on good old common sense) we started on that slippery slope downhill that almost just about sunk us. And the past administration was as guilty of this as anyone.

          • Now you’re blaming the credit card companies for those in huge debt earned on those same “small net 30 loans”? May as well blame cars for auto accidents, guns for people killing people, sugar manufacturing for fat people etc… Try blaming people for being “stupid” themselves. I look at my credit cards and see no debt, I look to my 401K and see some great numbers and I can honestly say regardless if you are to be looking at my business, home or cars and trucks, I’ve taken active responsibility for wielding my finances and it shows. The buck has to stop with the individual. Always.

            In saying its “not their fault” you are merely restating the left position that government needs to hold everyone’s hand because “them the people” are far too immature to deal with life on their own.

            If you are indeed a loans officer or such then you too must have seen those attempting to secure funds without the means to repay without some magic scenario “paying off”. Handing out loans or extending credit based upon “feelings” is a no-no anywhere I’ve done business and I’d certainly not extend credit to a company that itself engaged in such.

            As for the “misguided” politicians who were “victims” of the evils of capitalism, please include the FDIC who had in place already the means to intervene yet to this day stick to their guns that they “didn’t get the memo”. (insert snicker here)

            Lastly those from the 40’s were themselves experienced the 30’s and saw all too clear what having “nothing” looked like. To this day I can’t think of a single flush senior who spends beyond their means. I know too many (a little jealous) who this day still count their millions by tens and yet throw none of it away. The common theme amongst them is that they all saw what it was like to have little to nothing.

            Those spending themselves into oblivion now have not an iota of that experience to temper their spending habits with. You can’t ever compare one time period with another and not give thought to where the doers of that period themselves came from. You ARE the sum of your experiences.

    • Heard on Fox News tonight that Britain had raised it taxes on the top earners (above $217,000/year US) to 50% from 40%. No we do not want to follow Europe.

  4. I have been thinking lately, that Obama may just be a blessing in disguise. He has ramped up the Socialism agenda, making it front and center, and easier to see and confront. It may be the push over the edge that we needed. I do believe he has seriously misjudged what the people will tolerate, and his arrogance will not let him back down.

    Each generation has become more and more desensitized to government control, because the march has been slow, steady and foisted upon us during wars and crises, when we have been distracted.

    Think how Social Security has increased the intrusion into our lives. Do you know anyone without a SS #? When I was a kid, you didn’t get a SS# until you had your first job. Now they are issued soon after birth, can’t get the tax exemption without them for kids. The government sure knows how to manipulate and “require” us into doing exactly what it wants. How would a person function in our society without that 9 digit wonder? You would not “officially” exist. I’m sure it can be done, but there would be serious challenges. How socialistic is that?

    You also made a very good point about the education program that was “temporary”, in 1965, and we are still stuck with it. Seems like government programs never die, they just evolve into bigger, nastier, and more expensive beasts.

    The question is: How do we “undo” the damage. Can it be stopped, let alone reversed?

    I bet Black Flag will say, “NO”.

    • I’m not sure if it can be stopped without a collapse. More and more people get addicted on welfare so more and more people will vote for it and this is where democracy fails.

    • Black Flag says:

      You win your bet.

      The problem is systemic – like cancer in a body that has metastized, it’s fatal.

      The design of the modern political system is to

      1) spread out the pain of government theft over a large body – income tax, where most pay “something”. This builds a “we are all in this together” mentality.

      2) spread out the benefits of government over a large body – entitlements. For your own benefit, sit down and write out all the things you get from government. This prevents any retraction of government, because one program or another touches a large segment of society, and causes a massive backlash – stopping whatever cut was being proposed.

      Thus, the system can only grow and never shrink.

      It will not stop until it explodes.

  5. I’ve been complaining about welfare for years! I say just eliminate it. It’s a “cancer” on our society.


  6. According to BF, we are already headed for collapse of the Economy. As bad as I hate to say it, I believe he’s right.

  7. In honor of our esteemed Flag and the tone so far this morning, I offer this:

    “So mister, what do you think we should do? Run away or stay and fight?”

    “Niether, you can do nothing”.

    • JAC, I’m still healing from foot surgery, so running is way out of the question. Stay and fight sounds like fun to me, so that’s what I’ll do. I don’t believe in the term “I can”t”


      • My Momma always said “can’t cannot do nothing”. I agree Gman not in my vocabulary either.

    • I agree JAC that’s there’s nothing that we can do. But not fighting against it is just not in my blood. It may come down to just that; my blood and others.

      I don’t want it to come down to anything like Civil War or Revolution. That would indeed be a bloody and devastating conflict even if the people won. No matter which I think anyone would agree that it would be the end of The United States of America. At least as we know it.

      I don’t like to think of the consequences of the people losing though. If that happened, I believe ALL opposition, both passive and active, would be crushed under an iron heel. Any freedom we ever enjoyed would be gone forever. We would begin to take on the look of a Hitleresque Regime, with all voices of oppostition silenced ruthlessly.

      I believe that because there would be no more reason for govenment to have the pretense of “Doing it for the common good”. It would turn into “You will do as you’re told”. This is why I hope that this scenario never takes place.

      If the people won, we would still be in serious straits. First, there is the likelyhood of invasion by another Country. A war inside America between the citizens and the government is the only way I can see for another Nation to invade us.

      Second is this. With just a few hundred thousand people in this country at Revolution, most don’t realize what a happy set of circumstances and certain ideals commonly held that it took to build this unique and great Nation we call The United States. There is simply no Nation before or since like us. And despite the government’s insistence that it ain’t so, I don’t believe it is possible for there to EVER be another one like us either.

      There are some 300 million of us in this Country. What do you think the chances are that out of this many people, we would ever come to another agreement such as the one our Founders created? Some of us maybe. All of us? Never in a million years! The best we could possibly hope for would be a few States joined together in a common purpose. The result would not be The United States.

      Gloomy I know. But that is how I see it. What do you think?

      • Esomhillgazette,

        I agree with you. We are not a nation. We are now dozens of special interest groups trying to get their piece of the ‘pie’. And that is at best. It seems to me that many of these groups intend to get it at the expense of somebody else! Our ‘leadrs’ have been deliberately dividing us, and now, we’re just too far gone, I’m afraid. Unless a significant MAJORITY of Americans suddenly wake up and unite, to bring back what used to be the United States, things will only get worse. Face it, most Americans actually want to go where we are headed. How do you beat that?

    • JAC, & Co.

      How about we remember history, MLK surely was facing a tougher battle.
      Do we not have a dream?

      • MLK annd JFK were assassinated. I agree, we can fight but in the end, the battle will still be lost unless all of as Americans come together and overthrow the government and if that happens…then what?

      • MLK and JFK were assassinated. I agree, we can fight but in the end, the battle will still be lost unless all of as Americans come together and overthrow the government and if that happens…then what?

        • And they are moving “fast” because they know most Americans have short attention span. Everything that we have dicussed in the last month or 2 will be forgotten by most Americans a month or 2 later because we will be hit with something bigger and more devastating.

        • And they are moving “fast” because they know most Americans have short attention span. Everything that we have discussed in the last month or 2 will be forgotten by most Americans a month or 2 later because we will be hit with something bigger and more devastating.

  8. This series has been great for me to learn and understand how government has continually grown over the decades. I can see how an agency is introduced, like the EPA to clear the smog, and it seems like it’s a good idea for that time and issue, but it never ends and it just finds new “things” to fix.

    Dee, I agree with your comment that maybe it’s a blessing in disguise that the current Adm. is working so fast that unless you are under a rock (or just listen to the MSM), you can’t miss what is going on. I personally will continue to fight against it, but at the same time, I have BF’s list printed out.

    Have a wonderful day everyone~

    • BF’s list???

      • Black Flag provided a list sometime ago of things to do to prepare for the collapse of our economy and political system.

        Guidelines for “going Galt”, if you will.

        Perhaps USW or BF could find and put up again.

        By the way. Just how much more room you all got left in Texas? There may be a few million of us looking to migrate soon.


        • I would like to see that list. Any idea which post it was under?

          We have room for now…

          • Disgusted in Cali says:

            Heres the list BF posted

            The 100 items to disappear first in Sarajevo at the start of the war

            1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy…target of
            thieves; maintenance etc.)
            2. Water Filters/Purifiers
            3. Portable Toilets
            4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 – 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
            5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile
            6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
            7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
            8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
            9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
            10. Rice – Beans – Wheat
            11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
            12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
            13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR
            PLASTIC ONLY – note – food grade if for drinking.
            16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
            17. Survival Guide Book.
            18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is
            19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
            20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
            21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
            22. Vitamins
            23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous
            without this item)
            24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
            25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
            26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
            27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
            28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
            29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
            30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
            31. Milk – Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
            32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
            33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
            34. Coleman’s Pump Repair Kit
            35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
            36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
            37. First aid kits
            38. Batteries (all sizes…buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
            39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
            40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
            41. Flour, yeast & salt
            42. Matches. {”Strike Anywhere” preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
            43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
            44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
            45. Work-boots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
            46. Flashlights/lightsticks & torches, “No. 76 Dietz” Lanterns
            47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience;
            Historic Times)
            48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting – if with
            49. Men’s Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers,
            50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
            51. Fishing supplies/tools
            52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
            53. Duct Tape
            54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
            55. Candles
            56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
            57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
            58. Garden tools & supplies
            59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
            60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
            61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
            62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
            63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
            64. Bicycles…Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
            65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
            66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
            67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
            68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
            69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
            70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
            71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
            72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
            73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
            74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
            75. Soy Sauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soup bases
            76. Reading glasses
            77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
            78. “Survival-in-a-Can”
            79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
            80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
            81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
            82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
            83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
            84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
            85. Lumber (all types)
            86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
            87. Cots & Inflatable mattress’s
            88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
            89. Lantern Hangers
            90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
            91. Teas
            92. Coffee
            93. Cigarettes
            94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
            95. Paraffin wax
            96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
            97. Chewing gum/candies
            98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
            99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
            100. Goats/chickens

            From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
            Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war – death of parents and
            friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

            1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
            near renewable food sources.
            2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
            3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
            quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold’s.
            4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity – it’s the easiest to
            do without (unless you’re in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
            5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
            heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy – it makes a lot of
            the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
            enough heat to “warm”, not to cook. It’s cheap too, especially if you buy it in
            6. Bring some books – escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
            valuable as the war continues. Sure, it’s great to have a lot of survival
            guides, but you’ll figure most of that out on your own anyway – trust me, you’ll
            have a lot of time on your hands.
            7. The feeling that you’re human can fade pretty fast. I can’t tell you how many
            people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
            toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
            lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
            8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches


          • Disgusted in Cali says:

            The list was posted when Black Flag was a host commentator a week or so ago…I tried to copy & paste it…guess it didn’t go thru

  9. Calf Roper says:

    Great article USW!! What continues to seriously frustrate me is the fact that many conservatives truly believe that electing a Republican the next time around will fix things. It’s just not true. Until the State’s rein in the federal behemoth government, nothing will change. Another Republican President may slow the process to Fascism but we will continue on.

    I have to agree with BF on the inflationary pressure we will see in 2-3 years. As a banker, I know that you cannot print and inject the kind of cash that the feds are doing right now without causing serious inflation down the road. 2+2=4 no matter how much they try to say it doesn’t. And for those of you who think that the Reserve can control inflation later on, you’re simply blind to history.

    No banks are offering long-term fixed rate financing on commercial deals. Our bank’s longest fixed rate now is only 3 years. That alone should tell you that banks believe that inflation, and as a result interest rates, will rise dramatically in the future. They can try to keep the yield curve flat, but eventually it’s going to push back against them.

    • The Republican Party continues to piss me completely off Roper! I have already heard about how they think the Tea Parties are a great platform for their comeback tour. I say NO THANKS! Those fools are just as bad as the Democrats, only slower. What we need is a SERIOUS 3rd contender that will severely curtail government.

      • You forget how the Democrats railed against Ralf Nader for stealing some of “their” voters. A true 3rd party of the center? Never would such be allowed.

    • No, voting a REP will not work and I don’t like the fact that they tried to take the credit for the Tea Parties and show there faces…we could care less about either party because they all have the same underlined agenda. I wonder if no one voted…who would win?

  10. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Good Morning all,

    I’m sitting here at my desk just feeling as if my internal compass is just spinning around like Linda Blair’s head!

    I truly don’t know what side is up anymore. I had some gray hair, but I think that I’ve turned all gray in the past 3 months.

    Yesterday on FoxNews.Com, there were like 4 articles that truly did alarm me. This morning, I don’t think that I could even name 1 of the 4.

    I think they were:

    * Tim “Tax Cheater” Geithner stating something about the Taxpayers needing to share the same risk as Private Investors on the Banking Bailout (Duh…! As if I had a choice…and if I have to share the same risk, I want a damn stock certificate sitting in my files, A-Hole).

    * A draft of a new bill in making it’s rounds — something about the Internet that would give BO powers to basically close down the internet as he sees fit (I’m sure there is more to it that I’ve stated).

    * I can’t remember the 3rd. I remember…BO signed into law the Bill (I think #1388 – the brownshirting one).

    * I can’t remember the 4th one. I do remember *itching to my husband about it last night though!

    Folks…The sheer volume of “change” on a DAILY BASIS is totally overwheming…I can’t keep up with it. Somebody will post something, then I’m like, “Yeah…I remember reading something about that”.

    I am not joking here…I am truly into an overload situation and it is really making me sick – Emotionally and Physically. I’m finding that I am having a hard time sleeping, I find that I’m angry all the time, I am finding that my stomach hurts alot, I find that I no longer have the close relationships with friends that I once enjoyed…I’m really concerned about myself (short term) and really worried for my family and this country (long term). (IMPORTANT NOTE: In no way am I indicating that I’m so far done that I would harm myself or anyone else — just want to make that clear to any worry-worts that may care about ‘lil anonymous me!!!) It’s just that I feel so powerless and like a pawn…P.S. I absolutely HATE being controlled.

    * Today, there is a headline that the CFO of Freddie Mac has possibly committed suicide…That worries me – did he know something that we don’t and preferred death to “dealing with it”.

    Short of just putting my head in the sand (which is the last thing I want to do — because I think that is what “they” want me to do), I don’t know what to do. I’ve signed up at “After the Tea Party” to become more active there, but I feel like “What the hell will I be an Activist over!” — afterall, there is a lot of crap being pushed on me, you, us right now!

    Is anyone else feeling this way? Is this intentional by the current Administration to throw SO MUCH “Change” that the masses will become disoriented simply due to the chaos?

    Even though I see now that we’ve been slowly marching towards Socialism, Facism (whatever else you want to call it), I want everyone to know that overall, I’ve enjoyed my life just the way it has been…I don’t want this FRIGGEN’ so called “Change”. It doesn’t mean that I’m a dinosaur (and unable to adapt)…It just means that overall, I’ve been pretty satisfied.

    Okay…enough of my whining and crying…but if ANYONE can give me words of wisdom, I’d really appreciate it!

    Maybe for the 1st time in my life I am “truly” frustrated and don’t see a way to do anything about it…Maybe I’ve just been a little middleclass princess and don’t like the thought of becoming a pauper.

    Kind regards to all,

    • Spitfire,

      Relax. Most of the stories are hyped up a bit. Even the discussions here.
      I do not believe we will have total financial collapse, as Flag has warned.
      I feel there is about a 10% chance of that, but I do believe in being prepared.

      The brown shirts is a concern because of what Obama has said they should be, which was vague. The actual legislation passed was worded where my mind is eased a bit. They will legally be prohibited from interacting in politics, nothing about any armed roles for them to play, etc..

      I think of it in sports terms, that its not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. So the liberals have won this inning, the games not over by a long shot. So I hope you will keep swinging. Think about the tea parties, what if they become a national party and Obama has to debate their candidate next election?

      Esom will be there representing the Very Little Damn Gov. Party.

      • RS & LOI: We just need to be prepared for the worst. Hope for the best, but be prepared! I don’t think Obama can reach too much further before he gets a muzzle and a leash slapped on him. I believe when he tries to subordinate this Nation to the UN, “WE THE PEOPLE”, will slap him down pretty quick.

        I don’t think even most of Congress (I didn’t say all) won’t stand for that. Of course, those like “Rabbit Brain” Pelosi and “Purty Mouth” Franks will.

        And yes RS. I will be there cheering on LOI as he debates Obama at the next Presidential election!

    • Spitfire:

      I was there last year and much of this. Sleep is not restful any longer. Part of that is because I am now thinking harder than ever before. That is due in part to the conversations here. That may be exhausting but it is a good thing.

      As if we had to prepare for a race but put off our training a little to long. Now we have to work harder to catch up. More wind sprints.

      Advice: Get out in the sun and cool/warm spring air. See the beauty in the world around you, I mean really look and appreciate it. Even buildings are damn amazing. Don’t just look at the trees, notice the shapes and shadows, the intricate detail of the leaves and bark. The universe is a wonderful and exciting place. Our tribulations are all part of it. No less frustrating but no reason to be terrified.

      The betta rays of the sun will also help replenish you vitamin levels that have been depleted due to winter months. Cabin Fever is bad enough by itself, we are all trying to come out of it while dealing with this other OOMPAH!!

      And most importantly of all….YOU NOW KNOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE……….DON’T EVER FORGET THAT

      Be Concerned but Calm and at Peace

    • Black Flag says:

      I would share LoI’s optimism – except I know better 😉

      There is nothing in history even close to the size and magnitude for us to compare.

      That, alone, should be worrisome.

      Governments – globally – have delayed the economic reckoning of their horrific polices since WW1.

      We have yet to reckon the destruction of WW1, New Deal, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam War, Cold War, War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terror.

      Any one of these, singly, would be difficult upon the nation.

      All of these at once…..we will be lucky if Western Culture and Society isn’t completely destroyed.

      • Flag,

        Not sure how to explain my thoughts on our 90% chance of not having total collapse. One thing is the USSR, which I have NOT studied, but they seem to be doing well after declaring bankruptcy. Or did they just quit?
        I think we could compare it to the environment. Which is to large to notice mankind trying to warm it up. I think our country is large enough to have that kind of resilience, and allow us to survive.
        There, I’ve laid myself bare, shred my argument and dignity.

        Melodrama’s so much fun
        Black and white for everyone to see
        Billy Joel

        • Black Flag says:

          It was very difficult for them.

          The USSR broke up into numerous, smaller, States, and many of those are, even now, barely holding on to some sort of order.

          Further, they had a somewhat steady global economy to buffer them.

          Are you ready for the dissolution of the United States?

          The US economy is the largest in the world – the USSR economy wasn’t even in the top 10.

          This is occurring on the nation whose currency is the standard of the world – unlike the Ruble.

          There is no likelihood the global economy will be able to buffer its own collaspe.

          • Damn you Flag,

            This is a battle of whits, and you know I’m unarmed.

            I still feel our size will allow us to survive as a nation, perhaps declare bankruptcy and devalue the dollar 50 or 75%. It won’t be pretty, but we would survive. The scary thing is it could be the excuse for a universal monetary system to replace the dollar. And America would start out with a huge debt and creditors with agendas.

            But if the US falls, I will be prepared. I live in Arkansas, the only state that has the resources to be self-sufficient. Sorry we dropped Clinton on the rest of you.

            • Black Flag says:

              I hope, too, that it will not occur. That is my heart talking, because the brain says if it does, the disaster will be so bad, so extensive, that no one will win.

              The possibility exists that this will be the end of Western Civilization. The last time that happened was 2000 years or so ago – and it didn’t go very well for people for, oh, then next 1500 years.

              That is one hellva a prison sentence.

  11. I don’t understand why so many americans are afraid of the “socialism” that you can find in most european countries.. I live in Norway and a lot of things work very well. I don’t think you can call it socialism, but compared to the US maybe you can… Still, I’m really glad that we have free health care for instance. I’ve heard many stories of americans with insurance up their ass, that still don’t get money from the insurance company when they need it… You pay MORE taxes than we do, and still have to spend money on stuff that we get for free.

    • Camilla,

      With every “thing” that the government has attempted to provide for the citizens of this country, we have had a disproportionate amount of tax increase. Hence why 80% of our wealth is given to the government in the form of taxes. And whatever the ills are of private insurance as we have it, it is still better than it will be once government gets their hands in the mix.

      • I think that is very sad to hear that your government would make your health care worse for you. I also feel bad for those people who cannot, for different reasons, afford insurance.

        I must admit that if the US government had not spent so much of the tax money on wars, I would be more positive to it. Hopefully that will change.

        • The US is also the most generous country in the world, providing financial support to countless other countries for everything for improving infrastructure, education, healthcare, security, disaster relief; you name it we do it. Without the US, Norway would be now most likely be part of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.

          Comparing the US to Norway and assuming that the same basic societal and governmental structures would work equally well, when in fact they are vastly different in virtually every facet of life, is extremely simplistic and naive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but facts is facts, ma’am.

    • Calf Roper says:

      It’s not free, Camilla. TANSTAAFL. That is the big lie. For health care to be provided, a doctor must be paid, the nurses must be paid, the medicine and drugs purchased, the needles, the vaccines, the electricity for the hospital, the infrastructure of the building, the interest on the mortgage debt against the building – it must all be paid for. Who pays for it?

      Now I don’t know how Norway works or what governmental system it claims. However, if you are getting free health care, then someone else is paying for it. Your neighbor is paying for your health care and you are paying for hers.

      Personally, as an American, I don’t want to pay for my neighbor’s health insurance. Leave me alone, leave my freedom alone, and allow me to do what I do best, survive and provide for my family. I don’t want any hand outs from anyone and I will not reward someone for doing nothing.

      I, as an American, am not afraid or your “socialism” at all. I will simply not give up my freedom for a handout.

      • I know it is not for free, but when your in the hospital ready for surgery because you have been in an accident, no one comes and asks you about your insurance.

        I am sorry to hear that you feel your freedom taken away by paying for your neighbors health insurance. You know, I know that in Norway a lot of people take advantage of the system and “pretend” to be ill or so, doing nothing. And I hate that. But on the other hand, I would rather have that, than have a whole of people living in poverty, because they were in a car accident, or because they lost their job or their husband died.

        I must ask, as you said that you don’t feel free if you have to pay your neighbors health insurance, do you feel more free knowing you pay for the war in Iraq and all the people being killed there? Now, I know that Norway has soldiers in Afghanistan, but if I had a say in it, we wouldn’t. I don’t think the Norwegian government is something to be awfully proud of at all, but I do think a lot of things are very good, like free health care.

        • Black Flag says:

          It isn’t free – all that is happening is I’m paying for what you consume.

          If I pay for you, I do not have the money to pay for myself.

          You are being fooled by a separation of time.

          Because you believe YOU need MY MONEY NOW while it is available – you think it is “free”.

          It isn’t. It’s theft.

          • It’s not theft. Everybody knows about it, if we don’t want it, we can move to the US 😉

            If you pay for me – I pay for you. It goes both ways you know…

            I’m not saying there are no benefits the way it is in the US, I’m saying not everything you think of as “socialism” is a bad thing.

            And I DO have the money to pay for myself. What I don’t pay for is, well I don’t know what all you taxes really go to, because you pay higher taxes than we do, AND pay everything else yourself…

            • Camilla: That is another point that you just made for yourself. We ALREADY pay more taxes than you do, and still will have to pay even more to pay for Universal Healthcare.

              Our taxes already go to more social programs to help deadbeats than we like, and everytime our government opens their mouth, they want more.

              As far as war goes. We were attacked by terrorists. We are simply trying to make sure that terrorism is not allowed to flourish. And we don’t all agree with that either.

              Socialism works in Europe. It will not work here. We have been free for far too long to accept it. And there are far too many of us for it to be viable. Also, as I understand it, your country does not owe money like ours does. And our government wants to borrow more without our consent.

              I guess what I’m saying is we don’t want government in our lives, and we’re not going to stand still for it. They may do it anyway, as BF contends, and it may be too late. But I’m not going to just sit here and take it either!

              Good luck and God Bless Camilla. I imagine Norway is starting to look very pretty this time of year.

              • I understand you don’t want to pay more taxes, I’m saying your government is spending the tax money on the wrong things.

                The “so called fight against terrorism” I don’t want to start discussing…

                I don’t get why you all think it is fine to spend so much money on war and death penalty. It is so ridiculous to spend so much money on killing a person that would cost so much less to keep alive.

                I understand very well that you don’t want to government in your lives.

            • Yes. We know they’re spending it on the wrong things. On that I wholheartedly agree.

            • USWeapon says:

              And isn’t that an interesting conundrum.

            • Camilla,
              When I was in the US Navy I spent some time in Norway, very beautiful country btw. BUT your cost of living their is at least 2-3 times more than here in the US. After a discussion with some shop owners about your economy it clicked: a kid in Norway working @ a Burger King flipping Burgers is making $16 USD an hour and your population only being 4.6 million (vs USA’s 303 Million) people makes thing like “free” health care and “no unemployment” (goverment provided jobs?) easier.

        • Calf Roper says:


          I am not my neighbors’ keeper. To do so would mean to force my beliefs, my morals, my thoughts onto him. You seem to have it figured out pretty good how the world should be. Everyone should pay in to a central fund and then be happy with the results because while there may be some bad aspects that come of it, overall it is for the best of everyone. Correct?

          BF is exactly right in that this view of the world (aka socialism, fascism, communism) forces beliefs unto others. The moment that one single solitary person does not want to pay into your central fund and is forced by threat of violence to pay into it – you and your system have just forced your beliefs unto another.

          My overall question is this – who or what has given you the authority or the right to force your beliefs unto others?

        • Camilla,

          Most Americans in poverty are not there because of car accidents, death of a spouse, a war in Iraq, or racism. They are because they didn’t want to get an education, stay off the drugs and booze, get a job, WORK, be responsible about reproducing more humans, and live within their means. For those Americans who are willing to sacrifice and use their brains, America is a great place. And before you trash me for being so cruel, spoiled, etc., let tell you that both my parents are immigrants, I paid for my college after I found myself living in car because I listened to people like you. I have managed to pay off all debt except for 68k on a mortgage and a 8k on a car. No one gave me anything. I get my backside out of bed whether I feel like it or not, go to work, and do what is expected of me. I’m not so special. If I can do it, so can pretty much any other able bodied person IF THEY CHOOSE.

    • Camilla,

      Nice to hear from you and a different perspective.
      I had a disagreement with someone her who stated “we need to pay all these taxes to support people who were UNWILLING to support themselves”. How would that be received in Norway?

      • I don’t think that would be very well received in Norway. People don’t like to pay for those who are just lazy, but that is one of the backsides with this system. However I am willing to support those people who for other reason can’t pay, and there are a lot of other reasons. For instance if you can’t get a job, or if you’re in an accident and can’t work.

        • My contention is that it should be up to the States to provide such care for those in need, not the Federal Government. And if not the States then Community, Church, and Family. That is how it works around my house.

          Camilla, it was not the Feds job to do all these things and should not be now. Nothing that they do comes without ropes attached (sorry, strings just aren’t big enough).

        • Black Flag says:

          Good for you wanting to pay for others.

          But that is not really all you want.

          You want me to pay too when I do not wish to….

          The problem is not that you’re willing to give away your money for things you believe in…..

          …the problem is you support the belief that your ideas are so powerful and good, you have no problem forcing other people to do the same.

          And if I do not agree that your ‘great society’ is so great, or worthy – you don’t care. You’re willing to tell some big bully to beat it out of me, anyway.

          • If you had read everything I wrote (yes, I know it’s a lot 😉 ) you would have read that I don’t think my society is all great..

            And yes, I would want you to pay as well. And I don’t want to force anyone to do the same. I’m not like that, I’m just discussing this.. You are all very defensive, aren’t you?

            • Camilla, I HAVE read everything you have written. I have also been to your website. You are certainly entitled to your view. But I don’t think we are defensive as much as trying to get our point of view across to you.

              I have known other Europeans. We do not think as you do (most of us anyway). We have a Unique Country that cannot be explained on the internet because there is no Nation anywhere else in the world to compare us to.

              You are free to think what you want. But by that same freedom, so are we.

              If you have followed this web site for any amount of time you know about BF. He is not being mean or spiteful. Neither is he being defensive. His view of the government is unique even on here, although some of us are starting to see (some) things his way.

              Also, as far as Charity goes, refer back up to where I said I feel the needs of the less fortunate should be taken care of by charity of the community, church, and family. If we give to charities, and I’m sure some of us do, that should be our choice, not government.

              Personally, I believe that the government should look after their own citizens first, and worry about other Nations second.

              • Remember all,

                We are the decendents of their tired, their poor the wretched refuse of their teeming shores.

                We are not Europe, socialized anything will not work well in the United States since Americans are by their very nature con men, constantly trying to figure ways around things.

                We don’t like lines or waiting. One state, New York has over 1.5 billion dollars of Medicaid fraud every year. Camilla, Medicaid is the individual state program for medical aid for the indigent in case you were unaware.

                We are not a homogeneous population, are fractious with each other. There is no other place like this in the world which is why it is so much fun to live here.

                I really don’t want to hear anything from anyone in Europe about us spending too much on defense, not till the World war 2 debts are paid off with interest. Yes, and the Marshall Plan debts too. For forty some years we paid to keep Comrade Stalin’s henchmen out of your and your neighbors back yards. We ask for help in Afghanistan and get zip, zero, nada from our much vaunted NATO allies. How disappointing, not to mention ungrateful.


      All rapes in Oslo from 2006-2008 were committed by immigrants. Norway definetly will get problems and they become more and more apparent.

      • I know. It’s horrible. I don’t understand why they don’t just throw them out.. Most of them are refugees or asylum seekers, and when they break the law, they should not be allowed to be here..

        Manuel: The link’s in norwegian, do you think they can read it? 😉

        • I don’t understand most of the text either, just wanted to name the source. 🙂

          • So how do you know what it says? 😀

            • Are you interrogating me? 😉

              I found a smaller German summary of the article.

              Norway has so beautiful nature. Although you have some problems with socialism and political correctness I want to visit it someday.

              • Well, yes 😉

                Enough with the socialism already! It is not, and I don’t think it will be, because the political party that wants norway to be exactly like US are gaining lots of votes by wanting to kick all the immigrants out…

                Norway is beautiful yes. And I don’t think you would notice what you think is socialism..

              • Manuel, Norway is a Constitutional Monarchy. But their biggest Parlimentary Party is a Worker’s Party. (about 25% of it)

                • Ye I know that Norway is a Constitutional Monarchy as well as Germany is a Federal Republic.

                  Socialism for me means that you steal other peoples money through taxes and spend it on all sorts of things without asking the people you stole it from.

                  This worked pretty good in the beginning when welfare was low and people had values but now Europe is attracting all the unqualified people in the world and moral goes towars zero so sooner or later the system will crash in my eyes.

              • I think it will crash also. I said Norway was a Const. Mon. but that their parliament is about 25% workers party. The majority are Parties with Socialist Ideology. Besides. 4.6 million is a whole lot different from 303 million. I suggest going to her website by clicking on her name if you really want to understand her.

    • Something is very wrong there in that we in Canada pay heavy taxes far in excess of the United States of America and that’s very much because of universal health care and other social services. How can Norway afford universal health with minimal taxation? Even if the whole thing from soup to nuts is regulated and price fixed, that’s a lot of overhead to carry forward each year. We see how that has affected France, England, Spain and Germany with none of it looking good.

  12. Black Flag says:

    JAC, Esom, G=Man

    “Neither, you can do nothing”.

    Re-read that mantra – it is vital to survival.

    There is nothing you can do that will prevent the series of consequences that is about to hit. Any attempt to do so will only set yourself up to face the full blast – and it will destroy you.

    The only thing you can do is prepare for it. It is vital that you survive the tsunami. If you knew a massive wave was about to hit, what would you do? You certainly wouldn’t go surfing or start a beach volleyball tournament! You’d gather your family to high ground, and abandon almost everything else.

    Do not worry of what will happen after the tsunami. Everything will be so different, any plan you hold right now will be futile.
    (Theory of Constraints in action)

    But also know – there is a bright future ahead.

    I posted the 5 primary reasons that cause geopolitical paradigm shifts – recall that a paradigm shift occurs when the current paradigm is completely destroyed, causing society to search and discover a new paradigm of organization.

    The primary driver of this current paradigm shift, as I’ve offered numerous times, is technology. The amount of knowledge that we have accumulated and the rate of the accumulation has been exponential, and has been that way for decades. Every 2 years or so, the amount of knowledge of the world doubles.

    This new paradigm will be built on technology.

    I know I see to be Dr. Doom but I’m not -change, big change is coming. You cannot move to a new place while trying to remain stationary in the current place. It takes courage to venture into the unknown.

    So watch this video – it’s about 15 minutes long – to take a glimmer of what is happening right now in your world. What he shows is not science fiction – but science right now!

    • Esom, LOI, Roper et al.

      I believe I misquoted the conclusion. It should read:

      “Niether, there is nothing you can do”.

      I did not post this because I have accepted it. It is a line from a movie but it fits so well with what BF has stated and it seemed to fit the mood that was building in the comments made this early AM.

      I do think we will be revisiting the issue of what do we do very soon.


  13. Black Flag says:
  14. Black Flag says:


    (Reset from top)

    It’s not theft. Everybody knows about it, if we don’t want it, we can move to the US 😉

    You can dance and play “change the label” all you want.

    Taking my money by force is theft. The name of the crook matters not, including if the name is “government”.

    If you pay for me – I pay for you. It goes both ways you know…

    Then pay for yourself right now – you don’t need to steall my cash.

    I’m not saying there are no benefits the way it is in the US, I’m saying not everything you think of as “socialism” is a bad thing.

    Any policy which redistrubutes wealth from those that have it to those that did not earn it is “Socialism”.

    A glass of sewage(Socialism) with a drop of fresh water(freedom) is a glass of sewage (Socialism).

    A glass of fresh water(Freedom) with a drop of sewage(Socialism) is a glass of sewage(Socialism).

    • I am amazed by your narrow minded view on this subject, really… Things are not that black and white..

      But I guess the difference is that you think it is right to only take care of yourself and screw anyone else, while I think it is right to help other people in need.

      I wonder if any of you, at all, would consider giving anything to charity? Like starving children in Africa or something? Or did those two-year-olds just had i coming?

      • Black Flag says:

        It is not narrow – it is principled.

        You believe there are some human problems that can be solved by using violence upon non-violent people.

        You believe that there are times to club innocent people over the head to force them to act in a manner you judge ‘good’.

        You feel you can justify these attacks for some ‘greater good’ – that innocent people made to suffer by your support of violence upon them is “ok” so that other people who you believe ‘deserve better’ can stop suffering.

        You justify this – somehow – because you think you know more about other, like me than I or themselves do.

        You judge me saying “Black Flag has too much, so let’s take it from him”.

        But how do you know? How do you know you are not harming me? You do not know me, you do not know my child, nor my family.

        You do not know my goals, you do not know my condition, health, issues, efforts, desires, dreams …. not one darn thing about me.

        Yet, you believe you can judge me.

        Take great fear, Camilla, for holding such a belief.

        For you to believe you can judge me, by the law of Mutuality – you have give me the right to judge you.

        Be very, very, very afraid of the judgments of those that fly Black flags…. surrender, no quarter asked nor offered….

      • Black Flag says:

        You are not asking for charity.

        You are demanding by threat.

        Because I do not submit to your threat does not give you permission to challenge my charity.

        As I said, you know nothing of me.

        • You do not know what I believe, and you should NOT talk about taking things with violence. It was YOUR president that attack a country saying “God bless america” like God would want you to kill all those people so you could have oil. Everybody knows except a whole lot of “blind” americans… What is wrong with you attacking me like that? Are you seriously that immature? Are you not able to hear my else’s opinion without threatening me? What kind of person are you?

          You don’t know a whole lot about what you call “socialism”. I am not a socialist, and most socialist are pacifist anyway. There’s a big difference between socialism and communism, and you should not mistake them!

          You obviously think you know a whole lot about me too! People like you, talking and writing those things make me, and most european think very ill of americans, which is a shame, because I am sure there a lots and lots of nice americans, that don’t threaten strangers online…

          • Kristian says:


            We know enough about socialism to know that as a free people we don’t want it here. As to the difference between socialism and communism, from what I’ve seen explained here, there isn’t all that much difference.

            • That’s the problem. You only see it from one point of view…

              I think it’s fine that you don’t have socialism, neither do we…

              • Kristian says:

                No, I don’t see it from one point of view. I can see some of the advantages, but the freedom that I would have to give up to get those advantages are not worth it to me or alot of the people on this blog.

          • Camille, I have had arguments with the Flag, and think you are taking him wrong. He argues with all here that we need NO government. If government requires you to pay taxes, then it has initiated force against you. So in his view, your government, ours or that under Hitler were/are all equally morally wrong.

            That has no bearing on him being very charitable as an individual, or a complete Scrooge.

          • Camilla said:It was YOUR president that attack a country saying “God bless america” like God would want you to kill all those people so you could have oil.
            Please tell me in which direction the oil pipelines run in Iraq and how many gallons of oil America has obtained from that country in the last 5 years. Your statement is propaganda.

      • Camilla,

        I really do appreciate you conversing with us. Some things said above on our taxes here.
        20.9% goes to social security
        20.4% goes to medicaid or medicare
        19. something on military

        It seems everything run by the government is wasteful, and once started, impossible to stop. Our postal system can’t raise the rates fast enough to stay self sustaining. So the thought of the government running health care, when they already spend twenty percent of their budget on “free” health care makes a reasonable person pause.

        Another point to ponder. How has the financial crisis affected you? Did you know the housing crash that led to this was caused by
        GOVERNMENT CREATED ENTITIES Fannie May & Freddie Mac. Only our congress had oversight power over them. They were outside Pres. Bush’s authority.

      • Kristian says:


        Taxes are a completely different thing than charity and I think that you know this. We don’t want our hard earned dollars taken from us and given to those who have the ability to earn those dollars themselves, they simply choose not to because hey, Big Brother will take care of them. I have enough in my life, all of us do, to worry about without having to worry about what we are going to be taxed on next so that somebody who should be working can sit on their ass.

        I personally have no problem donating to charities and do so with regularity. Of course if the government has their way I won’t be able to do that anymore because I’ll barely make enough to support my family. And if I have to choose between helping a faceless child that I will never meet and supporting my family, guess which one I’m choosing. I don’t mean to sound hard but that is the way that I feel.

        • Life of illusion: I understand that you are not too pleased with your government, I wouldn’t be either if I lived in america. I’m not saying you should have more taxes, but in my opinion it should be used in a different way. If that is not possible, then it’s not.. The politicians always says things are hard to do, but that’s not always true. I’m just saying…

          In Norway the politicians suddenly “found” a whole lot of money to help solve the financial crisis, but they claim not to have any money to help out with the climate crisis. Of course they are lying, and different organizations try to get them from it..

          I have not noticed the financial crisis at all, so I can’t really say anything about that..


          I know taxes are different, it just sounded, in the way he wrote, that he never wanted to give anyone anything at all. You know, I also am sick of people who choose not to earn their money, but then again I think it’s really great that other people get help when they need it.

          I would also choose my own child in a heartbeat.. No need to even consider anything else..

          • Kristian says:


            A little word of advice when speaking with BF, read what he writes very carefully because I promise you he is not threatening you, what he is doing is trying to make you think. Think about your beliefs on the issues and more importantly WHY you believe that way. To understand him you need to pay close attention to his postings.

            • I know why I think what I do. Because I see that it works for us..

              • Kristian says:

                But what makes you think it would work for us? Remember, this is probably a government system that has been in place for a very long time. we on the other hand, have always been a free people. To ask us to give up that freedom is as wrong as me asking you for your first born child in exchange for all the wealth in the world. Would you, could you do that? I don’t think so. Why would you think that we would give up our freedom, such as it is, for the “advantages” of socialism?

                • Norway has been a free country for about 200 years, in union with Sweden for 100 of them..

                  If I said somewhere that I think the US should be like Norway I apologize.. I did not mean to say that, because I don’t think that would work.

                  What I don’t get is that you believe that I am not free?

          • Camilla, I found it very enjoyable hearing from you today. Different views are what makes this site great. I won’t get into the socialism issue, but I would like to comment on another statement you made. You mentioned quote “climate crisis”. My question is what exactly are your referring too. Might I guess that your government has said that global warming is man-made, which I believe is a fairytale of huge proportions.

            • My government has not said that, I don’t think they want to admit it, because they want to sell oil.. But I do believe that global warming is caused by man. I also do believe that the climate changes naturally in some degree, so I’m not expecting everything to be exactly like it is now forever..

              • Camilla, I use a simple arguement about man-made global warming. I ask this of you: If global warming is truly a result of man-made carbon emmisions, how would you explain the “ice age” coming to an end?

                • As I said. I do believe that natural climate changes can occur. But I don’t believe that’s what’s happening now..

      • USWeapon says:

        On the contrary Camilla, My wife and I give significant money to charity. And we do so because we want to take care of people that cannot take care of themselves. Furthermore, when my family members are in financial trouble, I help them, because I want to help them. The problem is that it is not right to FORCE people to do that. If I have it and I want to help, good for me. If I don’t have it and I can’t help, why should government have the right to take it from me anyway. The point is that I earned my money, not government. Therefore, I should be the one to determine where it gets spent, not government. You make a large mistake if you fall into thinking that the people who post here do not support helping people or donating to charity. BlackFlag, while principled and difficult to deal with, does significant work for charity, at his discretion. And is that not the way it should be? When you involve government in the problem it only makes the problem worse.

        A quick and simple example. I have five dollars that I want to use to help homeless folks. I can give it to government, in which case they will take 30% off the top to pay for the “facilitators” of the program. Then the money will travel down through the system with everyone taking their piece. In the end, maybe one dollar makes it to buying a sandwich for a homeless person. OR, I can take my five dollars, buy a loaf of bread and lunchmeat and feed ten homeless folks on my own. And I get to see the happiness on the faces of those I feed. I am a giant believer in charity and I help everywhere I can. Government is a giant believer in stealing my money, feeding some folks, and taking credit for providing charity. They didn’t provide it, I did, they just took my money, and the credit, and eliminated my ability to do it cheaper, faster, and better.

        • Well, you know what, I do agree with you when you put it like that. I still think “free” health care is a good thing, and I don’t think I will change my mind. Maybe later in life when I see the negative outcome, but for now I don’t. At least not where I live.

          But, well, I’m just glad that the taxes I pay gives me benefits, instead of being spent on things like death penalty….

          • Camilla,

            So, are you advocating that we give welfare to violent murderes for the rest of their lives? Prison provides for all the basic needs, and then some! That is welfare in my book. Personally, I don’t have a problem with the death penalty. I hear many Europeans complain about it. So I say, put your money where your mouth is. Why don’t all the European nations who piss and moan about mean Americans killing MURDERERS, take them off our hands? I haven’t heard of any volunteers. There are no laws to stop Europeans, from taking those poor, misunderstood people in. We could convict ’em and ship ’em so far as I care. Just keep them out of my country. And while Europeans are providing jfor violent killers, they can give as much as they want of their personal income to starving children in Africa. In fact, why not give ALL of it? Again, there are laws to stop you. And as far as the hoax of manmade climate change, have you done what is in your power to do? Do you walk or ride a bike everywhere? Do you use heat in the winter? Take hot showers? Smoke? Consume more than the bare minimun to survive? Are you fat? Do you watch television? I think I could continue with the list but you get the idea. Now think of all the things you don’t need to survive. Now, if every person who truely BELIEVES that humans cause climate change gave up modern life, and actually PRACTICED what they are DEMANDING everyone ELSE should do, just think of the effect you’d have on the planet, and your finances (more for violent criminals and starving African children). Why, you could do something very few people bother to do! You and your fellow believers woud be LEADING BY EXAMPLE!!!!! And, let me point out, that until I see every last damn ‘greenie’ living their life according to the rules they intend to force on me, I don’t want to hear a peep about man made climate change!

      • Bama dad says:


        Once upon a time in a galaxy far far away lived a hardworking man and his family in a community comprised of hardworking families. Some people worked harder than others or found better ways to do thing, so their status in life was better than some. One day in this community neighbor Jones had his house blown away by a tornado. There his family was no house, food or water. Before he could begin to cleanup and worry about how he was going to survive down the road came all his neighbors. They all helped HIM rebuild his house, the local church helped with food and clothing and before long his place in life was a little better than it was before the tornado. The reason everyone helped is they knew they could also count on neighbor Jones to help them in their times of need. Government was not involved at all; only friends, family, church and neighbors. Now let’s leave this fairy tale and go to the here and now. Mr. Smith is in his rent subsidized home watching HD TV in his recliner on Monday afternoon kicking back a cold beer while the live-in girlfriend is down picking up her food stamps to buy food for her 3 children who all have different fathers. The reason Mr. Smith is at home and not at work is because he dropped out of high school because studying was too much work and it was really hard to get up and get that free education. At present he has no desire to even look for a job, he knows the government will take care of everything for him. Let those evil top 5% wage earners pay more taxes to take care of him, he deserves it, he is an American and this is a great country.

        Now do I want to pay more taxes to take care of Mr. Smith, not on your life. Was I one of the neighbors that showed up to help Mr. Jones, you bet. As a whole you will find that average hard working Americans are one of the most generous people in the world and will do all they can to help someone that will help themselves.

        • Well, if that really is true. If all americans have someone to count on when they are missing something, then that’s just great!

          • I just keep coming back to Norway occupied by Nazi’s circa 1940-45 (a little break in your freedom). America, the good world neighbor, resolved that, I won’t say “helped” resolve that because without American production and ingenuity, an unlimited number of unarmed Russians could not have done it on their own. Even if they had, I doubt they would have left after it was over.

            So, what’s the beef?

      • Camilla:
        Americans assist other people all the time in our personal, individually, internationally, ect. I agree with BF…you take care of you and I take care of me and allow me to make the choice to take care of you. i just don’t agree with that. If I bust my ass for $32k yearly and the government takes 50% or more in taxes, the 50% I have left I want to use it to provide for me and my family not yours. Not being rude or mean but I don’t work to take care of other people although we do it now…OASDI, Medcar taxes, ect.

  15. Black Flag says:

    I’ve posted the links to the “100 things” and “What happens after a crash…” with links, its merely waiting for USWep to moderate them…

    • USWeapon says:

      And they have now been moderated! Thanks BF.

    • Looking forward to seeing that. Not the crash…the “100 things” and “What happens after a crash”. Takes a while to sink in, so the more we see it, hopefully the better prepared we’ll be.

      Do you really fly a black flag?

      • Black Flag says:

        Yes I do!

        I drive a Black (of course) Dodge Magnum SRT8

        When I was young and successful, I was *almost* going to buy a Porsche Turbo – I always wanted a car that went 0-60mph under 6 seconds with a top speed of 160mph.

        But now with a family, wife and child want to come with me.

        So I bought a station wagon – that goes 0-60mph in 5.1 seconds and with a top speed of 172mph 8) Yes you can have your cake and eat it too!

        On the driver’s side quarter panel, near the outside mirror, I have that exact picture above 🙂

        It’s also on my business card.

        It’s always a conversation starter –

    • BF you are a rare and fine treat. My best to you and yours

  16. So, I’m going to bed, cause it’s night here and I have a baby that’ll be up at six tomorrow morning..

    Thanks for a very interesting discussion. 😉

    • Thanks Camilla….enjoyed your posts

    • Camilla

      Good morning from here, I’m guessing close to noon there. I didn’t jump in yesterday as there was plenty of action in response to your post. I would like to give you something to ponder, as to why some of us Americans seem so “narrow minded”.

      In the history of modern human kind, it is only in America that man organized a govt around the concept that the govts power derives from the people and that we have the ultimate say. If you have been reading here very long you see that what was once the true American Dream has been dieing a slow death over the past 200 plus years.

      I say this, not with disrespect nor as an attack but as simple fact. No European country, Norway included, has ever been truly free, as viewed from the historical American perspective. Although the Viking period may have been close. The European culture has developed under one statist form of govt after another. It is ingrained into your DNA and your govts. Govt provided health care is a manifestation of that cultural norm.

      Now, before you anger, we Americans are not free either. We used to be free, a very long time ago. The difference is that we were raised in a culture where the legends and lessons of freedom still abound. We tasted it in small amounts as children and assumed that it extended to the full course of life. We now find it does not. We also find it is eroding at an ever increasing rate. Perhaps the most amazing thing of all is that there are still any Americans, although a small number, who know what freedom and liberty mean….truly mean.





      I would like to make one other point. What most Europeans view as American bravado or arrogance is not really arrogance but ego. There are arrogant Americans but the vast majority are not. Our enlarged ego is a reflection of the liberty we once knew and has been passed down. It takes ego to excell in a world where nothing is given freely it is only earned through hard work, physically and mentally. Where one does not depend on a benevolent leader/state to provide for our needs. We tend to be louder, cock sure of ourselves, brief and to the point. This leads one to think we are narrow minded when we are simply “confident”. We are sometimes a little preachy, after all we are the product of men and women who threw off the chains of despots and ventured into the wilderness to be free, and survived. Therefore, we know we have found the right answer. I know it is hard to understand but you should embrace this behavior because it means there may still be men and women who know what liberty and freedom mean. The day that all Americans become as nuanced and sophisticated and relative in our dealings as European culture dictates is the day you will know that we have reverted to our ancestral roots, and man’s chance at liberty has been lost.

      I am not saying all Europeans do not understand nor crave liberty, just most. We are rapidly becomeing the same. After all, we were founded by Europeans who rebelled against the cultural norm. But the descendants of those men and women have been working hard to take us back ever since.

      I hope this will help you understand where we are comeing from. I know you still like your health care but urge you to think what the real cost is to you. It is not just money you are giving to the government for that comfort they give you.

      Sorry, one more thing. Did you know that we “radical conservatives” as a group within our society give far more to charity than the left of center crowd who espouse the need for socialist programs? We do not want the poor to starve or die from lack of health care. We just don’t believe it is the govts job to provide it. The REAL cost is far to high, and I don’t mean just in overhead.

      Hope you are well and that baby of yours slept well, because that means you did to. Been there, done that!!!
      Best Wishes

  17. CanadianFox says:

    See my post above at start in reply to Manuel. Thanks.

  18. Black Flag says:


    You do not know what I believe, and you should NOT talk about taking things with violence.

    But I do know. I can read your posts. Unless you’re lying, of course….

    What I also believe is that you do not understand the implications of your beliefs. You are most certainly not alone. 95% of people don’t either.

    It was YOUR president that attack a country saying “God bless america” like God would want you to kill all those people so you could have oil.

    He is not “my” president. I did not vote for him. I did not give him my consent.

    Now, I didn’t vote for anyone else, either, since they all support the same basic principles to which I am wholly against.

    Everybody knows except a whole lot of “blind” americans… What is wrong with you attacking me like that?

    I am not attacking.

    I do not beat around the bushes, either.

    I challenge beliefs.

    I’m sure you have not had anyone actually challenge you to explain the principles that have created the beliefs you hold.

    Most of the beliefs you hold have been given to you. You have not searched the roots of these beliefs. You trusted those that handed them to you, instead.

    Was that trust justified?

    We’ll see…

    You don’t know a whole lot about what you call “socialism”.

    Ma’am, I do know all lot about all sort of -ism’s.

    I’m not saying you should have more taxes, but in my opinion it should be used in a different way.

    So, ask yourself this.

    Why do you believe your way is the right way to use my money?

    Did God give you a test and certify you with this knowledge – that you can spend my money better than I can?

    I know why I think what I do. Because I see that it works for us..

    How do you know it works for ‘us’? Are you saying 100% of Norway agrees with all these policies?

    Well, you know what, I do agree with you when you put it like that. I still think “free” health care is a good thing, and I don’t think I will change my mind.

    I am absolutely positive it is a good thing for me to have someone else pay for everything I do! I’d love it!! Think of all the toys I could have, and not have to pay for them.. Woohoo!!! Where do I sign up?

    But that’s the problem, isn’t it?

    As long as Camilla doesn’t have to pay, its a good thing.

    But what happens to Camilla if she pays and gets nothing, how do you feel? How do you feel driving your Lada while I drive a Ferrari that you paid for?

    There is no such thing as “free”. Someone is paying for you. Worse, you agree by consent for Big Brother to use force and violence on that person to pay for you.

    And all of this wouldn’t really matter to you, if you were assured that this was a one-way street. You win, and they lose, guaranteed!

    But, that is not the game.

    What you do to others gives the right for others to do to you.

    If you consent for government to forcefully take something from someone else for your benefit, you’ve granted ME the right to have government take FROM YOU something for my benefit. Be afraid, for I am GREEDY, and I most certainly care nothing for the suffering my greed may cause you, including losing your life – because you have granted me that right.

    When you can grasp this concept, you can understand how free people – without knowing it – curse themselves with tyranny.

    Maybe later in life when I see the negative outcome, but for now I don’t. At least not where I live.

    Exactly! As long as its a one way street for you, its fine! Thieves believe the same thing! It’s all fun while the game is in your favor.

    However, when it turns against you, – and that is when you decide to try to leave the playing field – you will find you cannot, nor be allowed to, and you will be consumed totally without mercy.

    • Calf Roper says:

      BF, someday I would like to sit down underneath a shade tree, have a beer, and talk philosophy with you. That would be one of the most interesting conversations in my life I believe.

      • Black Flag says:

        I’d like that too! Maybe one day USWep will have a group party in Vegas for all of us to fly in!

        Maybe around July 2…. (WSOP time!!)

  19. The voters put him in. If the voters kill the Dems next time he might have to scale back like Bill did his first term but it looks like he knows his time is limited that’s why he’s pushing hard to get us into socialism before anybody knows what’s going on.

  20. Black Flag says:

    (Off topic)

    The Bombay Bullion Association reported this week that India imported 10 tons of gold in the first half of April after little to no imports during the first quarter of 2009.

    India, which normally imports 700 to 800 tons of gold a year, virtually halted purchases during the first three months of the year as consumers shied away from higher prices of gold, which broke over the $1,000 level back for the second time in February.

    Remember, the IMF wants to sell 400 tons. A blip. Watch India.

  21. Mike Manich says:

    lassez faire….Obama is pretty educated I’m sure he knows what that means…Socialist scum

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