Should I or Shouldn’t I?

OK, my wife says that submitting to a debate on the 9/11 conspiracy is akin to trying to reason with a table. To do so would hurt the credibility of my site, she says. JAC just brought up a great point that we don’t need to debate that insanity to agree that we all feel government has gotten out of control. I asked two friends I trust and they both said that I should definitely NOT even bother to engage in this debate. It will only degrade the site, they say. Those who believe 9/11 is conspiracy won’t change their mind, and neither will I. So at this point, while I am sure that it would be a fun debate, I am leaning heavily towards not covering the topic. I just don’t think it adds to the direction that we are trying to move. But I want to hear from all of you. Do you think I should be covering it? JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON THIS ONE. AFTER CONSIDERING MY THOUGHTS AND YOURS, I WILL NOT BE DOING A POST ON ANY 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES.


  1. Black Flag says:


    The matter is in the record – 150,000,000 million web pages disputing the official story.

    The evidence is so clear – however – as J. Edgar Hoover said:
    “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”

    • Black Flag says:


      The matter is in the record – 150,000,000 web pages disputing the official story.

      The evidence is so clear – however – as J. Edgar Hoover said:

      “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”

      • Black Flag says:

        JAC is right – this blog is about dialogue on political theory and change. There are plenty of outlets of 9-11 discussions – and few regarding what we talk about here.

        Let’s keep the soul of this blog clear.

      • RWBoveroux says:

        Hey BF:

        So if there are a lot of pages about something on the internet, it must be true?

    • susyqbaby says:

      Are you saying 911 was a conspiracy? That our Government had any thing to do with it?

  2. Nope. No way at all.


    I am surprised that someone with your background and knowledge would allow himself to be drawn into that trap.

    I was alive and well into my work as an MP in the USMC when Kennedy got shot. Shortly afterwards, we began hearing about the “men on the grassy knoll” theory, and that it was a communist conspiracy in retaliation for the bay of pigs and the cuban missile crises, and then we started hearing about how the mafia was involved in it. On and on.

    Bottom line is what I knew as an expert rifle shot at the time – Oswald was nothing but a nutcase who wanted to be famous that the USMC taught how to shoot real good before he was discharged with an other than honorable discharge. He had the means, motive(or so he thought), and the opportunity. Kennedy falsely thought that everybody loved him so he had the top removed from his limo. Had he left the bullet resistant top on, he would have served two terms.

    Then there is the fake moon landing conspiracy theory. Hollywood did it with special effects and crap like that. There will always be conspiracy theorists out there who will “debunk” anything and twist any story with just enough truth to make it sound plausible.

    Look at all the UFO sighting people, I know about the REAL story of Rosewell. That was declassified several years ago. The mystery was all about how this strange material would return to its original shape after it was wadded up and dropped to the floor. Try this on for size – get some ORIGINAL Saran Wrap(NOT the cling type) and try it. That was the material that was used in high altitude research helium balloons back then, it was invented by Dupont during WW2 and then it was considered top secret stuff and no one else had ever seen it until it was found by a cowboy looking for stray cattle. Go figure.

    Conspiracies come and conspiracies go. PLEASE don’t fall into that trap, my friend, and I don’t care what BF has to say about it!

    • Black Flag says:

      And I bet you’d believe that Poland attacked Germany in 1939.

      But that can’t happen here, right???

      Anyway, keep to the spirit of the blog. I can pummel GA just fine on other topics 😉

    • susyqbaby says:

      I was wondering? For some one like me “an idiot” not really, I am an intelligent girl but not well read. Is there a way when some one states facts they can post a site for us not so informed to go to see the official document to back up the statement? A fact can be posted that is wrong but the person reading it believes it and starts posting from it. I want to make a difference, but I want it based on true facts.

  3. Bee in my Bonnet says:

    How about this. Rosie O’Donnell agrees with BF. Nuff said!

  4. Don’t do it.

    Its like teaching a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig……..

    • CyndiP

      Thats a new one on me. And I thought I had heard about all of em.

      Mind if I borrow that once and awhile?


      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        It is actually a Robert Heinlein quote… It is quite possible that the quote didn’t originate with him, but he did use it in at least one of his books.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        Some other favorite quotes from Robert Heinlein:

        “A generation which ignores history has no past and no future”

        “Always listen to experts. They will tell you what can’t be done and why. Then go do it.”

  5. Dont ask me, I’m living in an alternative universe already (Star Trek Movie) and can’t handle much more.

    We need to stick with politics and saving this country, or at least finding out if we can, or maybe if we should.

    Thats my story and I’m sticking to it.

    Night All

  6. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Hi US Weapon,

    Your wife is a wise woman!


  7. Well, I wont go into detail about my past except that I have served several years myself in the military, seen combat, and also served several years as a police officer on the state level. A Christian, dad (family man), and a patriot, great friend and very, very honest. I love my country but to think that everyone has it’s best intrist at heart is silly. Mr. Weapon, to some degree I wish we would debate it, but most are right, we should move on to a more pressing matter. Us kooks (speaking of myself), that think the impossible is very possible will have to bide our time until the truth comes out. The question is, what will the people do if we are right? Your speaking of socialism, a change in our government and a major change for our country. If this is so, who would it benefit and why? Don’t get me wrong, I agree 100%, but I think there is much more going on to perfect exactly what your talking about which would further another agenda. I think everything is connected and it dosen’t matter what political party they are from, they are all on the same team, everything else is just smoke screens. Lies and deceptions, psyop of the multitude. How can anyone after the deficencies in the reports, the stock market crash, the lost weapons of mass destruction just sit back and close thier eye’s and say Oh, OK. We have a huge problem, and our children will be the ones paying for it, so teach them well.

    I’ve said my piece and I will leave it at that.
    Best Regards

    • I agree with you 100% and that is why I stated do not discredit something just because it is not being talked about in the media. Personally, the theories and everything going on today all come toghter but that is another subject. I think sometimes it will be good to throw those ideas in and keep people on there toes but to dedicate a whole forum for it, nah…it will get out of hand!

  8. RWBoveroux says:


    Please do not waste your time, or the time of your readers.

  9. As an alternative, how about a “preparedness” article?

    We could add to the “100 things to disappear” list, provide sources for those that want to purchase certain items, share knowledge, troubleshoot ideas, etc.

    And Black Flag could keep us up to speed on issues of concern.

  10. Don’t do it.

  11. I’m brand new to this site, linked from Fox’s site, and also within 4 mos. started to research all these “conspiracy theories,” via youtube and articles. Some are crazy but quite a few have actual reality to them. Though many of your followers may be against this topic, may I suggest you have a separate section for this debate so that those who do not believe in it do not have to participate.

    After watching the videos by Daniel Estulin on the topic of the Bilderberg Group, I bought his book. He provides the names, photos, and documents to back up his claims – their goals for NWO. The History Channel had done a program about them and had just replayed the program last week. Videos are available of politicians admission to their participation and/or awareness. Cheney admitted he is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations which is a branch of the Bilderberg. Majority of Obama’s staff are members of the CFR and/or Trilateral, including Geithner, Paulsen, and Gates. Rather scary to me. We may not be able to stop them but we can slow it down if more people join the fight as they did in Canada to prevent its takeover.

    True Patriot is correct in what he stated.

    • You both are on point and I love to see those that think outside of the box. Much like you I have researched everything you mentioned above and have gone even deeper. I agree with you both but to have a personal dicussion about them; this forum might not be ready. I do think that while we are staying abreast of the current news, we should start dicussing the preparation for a collapse of our society. What to do if….the government keeps warning us, why not prepare for the worst because the worst has hit yet and when she hit, it will be a knock out for everyone!

  12. CWO2USNRet says:

    I vote against entertaining this discussion.

    The fundamental flaw of all big gov’t conspiracies is the fact that the ability to maintain a secret is inversely proportional to the number of people involved. Once the size of the group exceeds about six the secret will almost certainly escape. If the ‘truth’ about Pearl Harbor or JFK or 9/11 hasn’t come out by now then there very likely is no ‘truth’.

    • Black Flag says:

      Actually, that is not true – or else war time secrets are not possible.

      The way you keep a secret within a large group is to split the duty and information so that very few actually know any real part of the story.

      Many WW2 secrets are now just coming out – such as Red Serge, etc.

      • Distraction is the way you keep a secret. Keep the people focused on 9/11 and we take away there rights and they will be happy to give there liberty up for freedom…Keep the people focused on AIG, economic crisis, ect and we will continue to strip them of there rights and they will oblige because they will be happy to give up there liberty for freedom…

        CWO2USNRet, I disagree…you have to seek the truth, the truth will never be told to you. We as a people have been bamboozled since before Wilson. If you believe everything your government tells you, you are living a surreal life. Nothing they tell us is the truth and if they do tell the truth, it is because they are on another mission and that mission can be exposed now that it has been several years after it happened. Its like the military, they tell us what they want us to know, not necessarily what we need to know.

      • susyqbaby says:

        I agree, My dad told me that is actually what they do is to split the duty so no one knows the actual agenda. He also told me the many things that went on in Vietnam. That is when I really started questioning our government. I couldn’t believe some of his stories.

  13. Truthseeker says:

    Since Popular Mechanics Debunkt it, this shouldn’t be touched with a 10 foot pole!

    • Black Flag says:

      Actually they didn’t – simply rehashed the same old, weak, arguments. Even famous debunkers stayed away from PopSci piece.

      • When some of the military and law enforcement bloggers are starting to post warnings, things like this should be given more thought.

  14. esomhillgazette says:

    I don’t think you should do it US. Besides; with Obama’s recent History if something like that really did happen, he’ll soon release it ti the public for more points with his Obamatons! 🙂

  15. I think it would be interesting to read the debate, but there is way to much more important topics that need to talked about.

  16. I'm learning! says:

    You are mostly correct that people who believe it was a conspiracy will not change their minds, nor will the ones that don’t. That falls true on most topics that are discussed here.

    I think 9/11 got discussed quite a bit yesterday, and probably don’t need its own day. But conspiracies could be discussed. The whole FEMA camp thing running across the internet was shown to be footage of other things with a homeland security logo implanted on the pictures and video. So the question is, how do you effectively discuss this? Enough conspiracies are coming to life with the whole financial crisis, carbon, etc. It could be refreshing to see other views on various topics.

    Did you see the footage of Air Force One flying by the statue of liberty and the WTC site – scaring the heck out of NYC residents yesterday? They say it was a photo op, but yet didn’t want anyone to know they were planning on doing it. Why in the world would they do that? Bush would have been crucified – but then again, Bush would have never done that!

    • Bush would have never done it huh? LOL! The CIA warned Bush yet he did nothing about it…sounds like he is just as guilty as the so called “Al Quada and Taliban”. As a matter of fact, why 9 years later, Al Quada and Taliban are stronger now than they were before the war? Why is Saddam dead yet nothing has changed over there but power? I believe not only was 9/11 a fear tactor but also was a control tactor…and they are still doing a great JOB with FEAR!

  17. Disgusted in Cali says:

    There are far more pressing issues today that should be discussed and debated. While its interesting to read other points of view on 9/11 I don’t see where it would benefit this site but would instead get it labled just another bs conspiracy site to be dismissed.

    Keep up the great work USW!!

  18. I agree that this topic is better left alone. While I’m sure we don’t know 100% of the details I really don’t think this is the forum to hash it over. No matter how many years pass there will always be questions.

    This site is a shining star among political discussions and we all should be very proud to be part of such a great online community. I have definitely learned a lot from the varying points of view 🙂

    Continue the good fight USW!! BTW, your wife is totally right!!

  19. USW…Please keep this blog the way it is as this is a political forum with taste and various opinions. For those that are interested in Conspiracy Theories they can search it on their on time. I love this forum and wouldn’t want it be be discredited due to theories being added it. But I do want to make a note of this…any conspiracy theory will be discredited due to if we knew the truth, there would be a revolution. I have studied several theories and I am here to tell you, if you think its a hoax, wake-up! It all makes since and they all play a part to what is going on. FDR said it best…”We have nothing to fear but fear itself”…well guess what, they are scaring the hell of out of us and the more they pump fear in us, the more they expect us to call them our saviors. It’s better to prepare for the worst then to discredit something and it blows up in your face.

  20. For all that are interested in Conspiracy Theories which I think we are all in agreement that this site shouldn’t entertain it.

    Warning: Some of the things you read will freak you out!

    Draw your own conclusion.

    • susyqbaby says:

      Will we ever really know the truth about conspiracy theories? If we weren’t there, I don’t think so. Who Killed Kennedy? Oswald might have done it but who told him to or did any one tell him to? Why did Ruby shoot him or did he?Documents can be forged, people die, theories are put out, and years go by, so where is the truth unless you were right there and showed the proof to the world.

  21. susyqbaby says:

    I am the free lance one of the group. What I say in these discussions comes from my heart. I am not well read like all of you. I went to one year of college but I cared more for being a cheerleader. They say youth is wasted on the young. Well here is living proof. Me! The only president I ever followed was Kennedy and was devastated at our loss. I always believed anyone with power or a special skill was a God. Like doctors, pilots, presidents they weren’t human. But as I grew older I found out they were just like anyone else. A doctor could have a bad night, argue with his wife, get high, or what ever and the next day operate. That scared me to death.

    We are in a world where money has become our God. There is not a person on the earth that would not do anything for money, especially with the economy the way it is.

    It is a changing world. The only thing we can count on, to be consistent, is change. We can’t stop it. To stay the same is to no longer exist.

    Our problem has always been, we crucify good and thrive on evil. If you have ever read the bible it tells us right there what to expect. I believe the bible is written document on past events. Greed and lust will be our down fall, Just like it happened before. Until we find a way to create good in all our lives we are headed for destruction.

    Just something to think about.

    • susyqbaby says:

      Now I am following Obama. I feel he is good for the world if people give him a chance and get behind him. He is trying to bring good where ever he goes, like the bow or the book he accepted, just showing respect, for which he is now being crucified. Or people are saying this is showing the world America is weak. I don’t think so.

      If Obama can’t be bought he will do good for the world. I don’t know enough to really comment on this, but from the media and news I have watched Obama comes from a, how do you say it, connected part of the world. The way the news projects it is his acquaintances were strong. But I feel Obama is really for the people. They say birds of a feather, well I know different. I have been with all types of people in my life time and my qualities have never changed from who I am inside. You can’t judge an book by its cover. I believe we have a great advantage to bring America back to leading the world thru Obama. From what I see he is well liked every where he goes. I feel he has the carisma, personality, charm, and education to be good for America. Where or if he lacks in knowledge we should give him the help he needs to get the job done. In four years if it is not working and we find some one else who we feel can do a better job then so be it. We need to stand behind who ever we have chosen. Remember we chose it now Stand Up For America, isn’t that the site I am visiting.

      United we stand to fear
      Divided we fall to pieces
      Together we rise to repair

      • TexasChem says:

        Obama was purchased long ago by a man named George Soros.He is a marxist inspired socialist.He is friends with ex weather underground members that bombed government buildings and murdered people.He attended a church for 20 years that blames everything on “the man”.The first 10 years of his life he was raised a Muslim.His father was a British national.His mother was not of age to confer citizenship under the laws at that time.He wont release his public records.He just indebted your childrens children to trillions of dollars worth of debt.He just released memos from the CIA that for reasons of how other nations view the US shouldn’t have been released.He has pushed ownership of a private company (GM) into the hands of the federal government that now own 89% of.On and on and on.He is a far left liberal that is pushing our country to her knees.

        • susyqbaby says:

          What should we have done. Let everything go under. All these things were here when Obama took office. He is trying to save the economy.Every one wants transparency. Every one wants to know what is going on in our Government. I personally feel some things need to be alone. I don’t see how we can have transparency in America without letting to world know our business. All in all I feel Obama is doing pretty good. Time will tell.

          • TexasChem says:

            Don’t base decisions on feelings.Base them on logic Susy.What things were here when he took office?The economy was in shambles I agree.He has further worsened the problem with his economic legislation.His foreign relations tactics are horrible.Could you please name me one thing he has accomplished that is good?

          • TexasChem says:

            Here is what is going on in our government…

            “This is a President who has just re-opened the door for the prosecution of those who in good faith advised that the ‘waterboarding’ of terrorist trash post-9/11 would be legal. That technique subsequently extracted information that saved Los Angeles from a similar attack.

            “This is a President who releases classified information about that technique and withholds information about its success.

            “This is a President who has outlawed that technique (which, though distressing—oh, poor terrorist trash!—is neither injurious nor life-threatening).

            “This is a President who has officially changed the name of the War on Terror to ‘Overseas Contingency Operation’ so as not to offend terrorist trash.

            “This is a President who is willing to sit down unconditionally with the President of the world’s #1 sponsor of terrorist trash, Iran, even as that country proceeds with impunity to acquire nuclear weaponry.

            “This is a President who preaches nuclear disarmament at the United Nations knowing North Korea is about to fire a long-range missile over Japan.

            “This is a President who bows to the King of Saudi Arabia and beams at Hugo Chavez.

            “This is a President whose economic policies are significantly similar to Chavez’s.

            “This is a President on whose watch the Department of Homeland Security fantasizes about ‘threats’ from war veterans who ‘might’ become ‘right-wing extremists.’

            “This is a President who believes anyone who adheres to America’s founding ideals is a ‘right-wing extremist.’

            “This is a President who trashes his country while overseas, apologizing to European socialists (whose countries America rebuilt) and Latin American communists for America’s ‘arrogance’ and ‘dismissiveness.’

            “The Department of Homeland Security would be better advised to worry about the threat to America posed by its President. He is making it more vulnerable to external attack while personally unleashing an internal attack on its core values.

            “Chavez-Obama’s credentials as an anti-American may be unimpeachable, but he’d do well to remember that he is not,” Perigo concludes.

        • TexasChem,

          You summed that up quite nicely, good job.

          One thing that amazes me, is the “change” thing. Why don’t people get that all “change” is not “good change.”? Where is the logic and reasoning in “change” at any cost, even if it is a “change” for the worst? Have some people lost the ability to see what lays beyond the “change” they voted for?

          We needed a change alright, but not the one we are getting.

          • susyqbaby says:

            I can’t name one bad thing that has happened to our country yet. As far as the good time will tell. He is trying to be a diplomatic President. He is trying to keep peace without a gun. He is spending money, guaranteed it is a lot, but it was needed. He is now trying to cut government spending on outdated organizations. When the Somalians captured to captain he got him rescued. If God forbid anything bad happens we will have to see how he handles it. So far he is trying to be the sheriff without using a gun. There already is so much violence he is trying a different way. I hope this thred posts right it is so skinny the words look funny.

            • I would challenge you to look past the media rhetoric of “it was needed”. Look at the money that was spent. How much of it “was needed” and how much of it was repaying liberal campaign support. It is easy to say “it was needed” but that simply is not true at all.

          • susyqbaby says:

            This thred is too little it wouldn’t let me reply where I wanted.

            We can only critize without knowing the whole picture or his reasoning behind what he does. Until something bad happens I will stand behind my President.

            • TexasChem says:

              Susy I am pretty sure the Seals used an m40-a1, MK11mod0 or M110 sniper rifle to take out the Somalian terrorists.If in fact he did authorize that use of force your arguement of peace without force is not valid.But, I believe you right on the analogy that he is a sheriff not toting a gun.I really don’t think the President authorized that use of force.I am sure there is a lot more to that story that will come out in the wash in due time.The Navy SEALs saved the captain.Obama took credit for it.

              • Obama & Somalian Pirates – The TRUE STORY
                received this info:

                Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:

                1. Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) wouldn’t authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36hours going against OSC (On Scene Commander) recommendation.

                2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restricted on their Rules of Engagement (ROE) that they couldn’t do anything unless the hostage’s life was in “imminent” danger

                3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in but could not fire due to ROE restrictions.

                4. When the Navy Rigid Inflatable Boat (RIB) came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.

                5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge Captain (CPN) and SEAL teams.

                6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team Commander (CDR) finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies

                7. BHO immediately claims credit for his “daring and decisive” behaviour. As usual with him, it’s BS.

                So per our last email thread, I’m downgrading Obama’s performace to D-. Only reason it’s not an F is that the hostage survived.

                Read the following accurate account.

                Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his
                lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.

                The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.

                The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by
                Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the Commander-in-Chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.

                After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on-scene-commander decided he’d had enough.

                Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington (since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before) the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

                Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.

                There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

                Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and declared that the dramatic end to the standoff should also put an end to questions about the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.

                Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.

              • susyqbaby says:

                You are right it did take a few days. But all ended well. Isn’t that a good thing? What if they would have taken the shot the first time the captain jumped and only had two Somalians in site and the third shot the captain in the water? Would that have been a better out come? You know we could nit pick all day but the out come would still be the same, the President gave the order, the seals did a stupendous job and all turned out well. I can’t understand all the criticism. I don’t remember Obama taking credit. I remember him commending the seals. If you could direct me to a site where I could see him taking credit I would greatly appreciate it. Then you would give me something to compare my thoughts about Obama’s actions. What were your thoughts on the press conference tonight? When Fox put him down about Winston Churchill, were they right?

              • SusyQ:
                I am going to leave you a response at the end of this post so you can start a new thread.

              • I will write about his press conference soon. Perhaps as a second post on Thursday night, time allowing, or in place of the guest commentary on Friday night as I don’t have a guest commentary submitted from anyone yet.

              • susyqbaby says:

                Thanks for helping me to get on board. I want to make a difference. I posted a reply to G. A. Rowe about this. I wanted to know when we state facts can a link be put with the fact so someone like me, not well informed, can click on to back up the statement? This way we are all on the same page and can truly put in our opinions. Any one can say anything the want and say it is fact or what they believe to be fact and get who ever they are talking to off on the wrong foot. To really help America we need to base our opinions on real fact.

  22. I wouldn’t worry about the site’s reputation. What makes this site great is the intellectual discussion and the lack of personal attacks. We can discuss anything at anytime as long as we stay away from personal attacks. I wouldn’t limit yourself by worrying about what people will think of the site. Don’t be “politically correct.”

    • susyqbaby says:

      I am glad I found this site. I have read many post and learned a lot. I am learning how our Government works, which I was suppose to learn in school, but was too busy being a cheerleader.

      Again thanks for being here, I am learning a lot.

  23. I wouldn’t let anything like the truth get in the way. In a court of law in Canada a judge ruled on a case to the defendant that the truth is no defense. Can anyone on this site recall the case where they kept this man in prison without ever really charging him for just giving a opinion on parts of world war two,and then deported him to Germany where they sentenced him to more years in prison. He lived in Tenn when he was taken by forse to Canada. Understand who the people are who have the power to imprison inocent people is the path to understanding all that is going on now, and in the past and what will happen in the future if they suceed in their agenda!Hoover was right, most people will never except that there are people so evil there is nothing moral within them and they have had the same agenda for 5,000 yrs leaving hundreds of millions of inocent human lives dead in their wake.Martin Luther knew them well!

  24. No.

    Government always lies. I am sure the “official 9/11 story” is filled with lies, but not being an insider I don’t know which parts are lies and which parts are true.

    The bright spot is that so many people suspect the US government of either carrying out the attack or doing nothing to stop it. It shows that people are at least paying attention to the fact that government is never worth trusting.

    What it all boils down to for me is that the attacks would have never happened had the US government not immorally (and illegally) enforced policies that have disarmed air travellers, and had it not spent decades meddling all over the globe. By meddling, the US government has been creating new generations of people who HATE the US government, and take that hatred out on Americans instead of the real enemy. Normal people are not to be confused for the rancid evil that is government; not here, and not “there”.

    • susyqbaby says:

      Well here we go. I feel Obama is trying to get back some of Americas credit by not allowing torture, and trying to make all nations feel good about themselves. By doing this maybe he can create new generations who will not hate America. Obama doesn’t want the torture because as you have to agree some of those pictures I saw of torture I feel were carried a little too far. Too many people today get off on hurting others, even for no reason. They had a reason so that gave the an excuse to go overboard. I feel if this country was at risk Obama would do whatever it took in secret to keep America safe. After all he lives here too. He would be keeping his family safe also.

      • SFC Dick says:


        Which photos of torture are you referring to?
        I will jump the gun and assume you mean the Abu Grhaib, Graihb, damn arab names, the prison photos.

        They were all staged, meaning that the dude they had with electrodes ( wire) on his fingers standing on a box, was a posed photo. Yes, he was a prisoner but they were not in the middle of juicing this dude when they took the pic. Plus, nobody uses electrodes on the fingers anylonger. Sleep deprivation works on some, waterboarding on some. I don’t think any photos came out of dudes getting boarded. Usually the pros do the boarding and, unlike prison guards, they don’t take a lot of photos, distribute them to their friends and use them as desk tops on their computers.

        Yes, the dude getting barked at by the dog was real.

        Yes, the naked human pyramid was real, which, you might be interested to know, I have requested a naked human pyramid while being humiliated by one of the female soldiers here on the FOB, I can’t get one. WTF?

        Who was that guy that wrote the article about the defining moments of wars by images captured? He talked about WWII, the internal fight on whether we needed to do the island hoping thing, the US publics waning support of the pacific campaing and the talk of court-martials for the commanders of certain pacific operations. Then along comes this photo, raising the American flag. A staged photo overlooked at the time and stumbled upon by the photographer later,( in the dark room I think? ). Some say that pic changed the war, or at least gave it more “life”.

        Korea?, Buhler?…Buhler?…anyone?

        The pic( movie) from Vietnam, the Vietnamese gov official executing the VC right there in the road, poppin’ the dude in the bean. The pic of the little girl running out of a village that the NVA was using to attack US forces. The airstrike came in, napalm ( White phosphorous is as bad or worse, who bitches about WP?) was dropped, lil girl gets her clothes burned off her, runs out of the village, somewhere down the road some one takes her pic. I don’t remember any “good” pictures coming out of Nam. Well, I know of many, but the US public doesn’t.

        Grenada. The college student kissing the tarmac immediately when she got off the plane on US soil. Nice.

        Panama. Noriega sitting flex cuffed in the back of a C141. HA!

        Dessert Storm?. Not a particular one comes to mind.

        Iraq. Goes from people tearing down the statue of Sadam to Lindy, smoking a butt and giving the thumbs up.

        SusyQ, did ya see the vid of the Talib beating the girl? Did ya see her own brother holding her down. Did ya see all the people standing around watching?.

        I don’t think a few words from our president are going to change any minds and bring on the love fest, not from the ones that count.

        I have talked to village elders who love America, I guess, they wanted me around. They provided much for my security. They worked with me. They also had family members inadvertently killed by US arms. They understood well the situation. They were most pragmatic about it.

        Did you hear the story about the village elder that lost a son in the Lollander Valley due to US arms during a fight, who later showed so much support for the regime that he allowed his eldest son to join the Afghan National Army. How he continued to support the cause so much that the local Taliban leader, er, I mean, district police chief attacked the village elder with grenade, AK fire and the setting of the elders Qallat ablaze and then kidnapping the elder when he ran out of the fire; kidnapping to take away , do real torture then kill, and how a group of advisors just happened upon the village a short time later. How this group of advisors, led by a senior NCO went to the district police center, disarmed all the Taliban, er, I mean police, secured the area and contacted the minister of the interior demanding the return of the elder. Did you hear how the MI, who appointed the district chief, had to jump through his butt to get the elder returned safely. How the village elder presented that senior nco advisor an afghan leaders ring making him a member of the tribe, holding the position of tribal war chief and how not long after that the Taliban, er I mean district chief just disappeared, fell off the face of the earth?

        Have you heard any of those stories of seen supporting photos of that?

        You saw photos of brain dead prison guards screwing with prisoners. If civilians were ever to see the true images of war, well, I don’t know how many wars would be subsequently described as “good”.

        • susyqbaby says:

          I saw a few pictures from Vietnam. But I was young. I hated that war. I still feel it was for no reason. A political war. My feelings come from my dad’s stories but most of all from the stories from my x husband and my classmates who came home not at all the way they were when they left. Then years later my dad told me of things our government did to our own troops. These were my friends, my class mates and my x husband. I kept telling my dad he was making these stories up. They couldn’t be real. He would give me the outline but when I would ask for more details he said he was not allowed to talk about it. My dad was top security and when he retired after 40 years he told me if we went to war or anything no matter how old he was he would have to go. Now I say to myself were these stories exaggerated or were they true? At the time it was very hard for me to believe My Government would be capable of anything like that. But today yes they could be.

          So what are you saying. We retaliate by doing the same. Obams is trying to be the sheriff without a gun. I believe he is trying a new way. I try to look at both sides. Do I want to shake hands with my enemy or do I want to act one way to their face and and another behind their back. I have a story that I feel is relevant. I don’t know if it is allowed here. If some would say it is off the subject but it has to do with hanging on the other side of the street and not changing who I was the clashes and then the outcome. Like using diplomacy in a violent situation or treating bad things that people do with respectbecause that is who I was. It won’t show in the beginning but the end result will make a difference it did in my story and I believe it will for the world.

  25. No US….

  26. SusyQ:

    Regarding you support of our president you made several comments that are not supported by facts. But before I engage I need to know whether you are interested in finding Truth or if you intend to stand by the president regardless. As a teaser I offer you these few facts:

    The decline in our economy started to slow in December 2008. Mr. Obama was not in office.
    There is nothing that this Administration has done that has affected the economy.
    None of the stimulus money has hit the ground yet, at least not enough to make any difference. Yet the economic news is improving.

    I will not insult you with the keep and open mind question. What I want is someone who is willing to keep an active mind. Someone who is willing to use reason in search of truth. Are you such a person?

    I will check back and if you are, we will have a good discussion.
    Best Wishes

    • susyqbaby says:

      I have an open mind. Plus I am spiritual. I was born and raised Catholic but they couldn’t answers my questions so now I look to all religions for answers. I am my own person. My dad was in the Army “Top Secret” for 40 years. I went to one year of College for electronics. I am a universal girl. Not bragging, but there isn’t much I haven’t done or couldn’t have done. I am 61 now so it is hard to do heavy physical things. I was always busy physically in my home or showing German Shepherds in the dog shows. When I was younger in school I was a cheerleader so needless to say I never read a book. They say youth is wasted on the young, it really is. I wish I had read. But it is never too late. I get my knowledge from talking to people. and I now watch Oreilly. So I am learning about the offices of our government and the poeple who run them.

      I want to make a difference. I am willing to learn and if the things I follow like Obama turn out not to be for the well being of my country I am willing to make a change.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hi Susyq,

        I found your reply to be very refreshing! I used to be a die-hard Fiscal Republican (with liberal social “issue” leanings), but now am a VLDG member — That stands for “Very Little Damn Government”…This site has really opened my eyes. Doesn’t mean that I no longer lean left on some social issues or that I no longer lean right on fiscal matters; to me, it just means that Government needs to serve the people, not itself. To me, here is an example: for every tax $ spent on feeding a homeless person, it should be most of that $; not 5 cents of the dollar to feed the person and 95 cents to procur, manage, advertise, report on, etc.

        Welcome to a safe place where you can learn alot and disagree at the same time!


        • susyqbaby says:

          Thank you RS

          I do feel comfortable here. Every one contributes not distributes. I feel I can learn here without being torn or ridiculed for my thoughts. Just bear with me, I have a lot to learn.

  27. SFC Dick says:

    HA! Conspiracy theories….

    Rule # 1. No one can keep a secret, eventually the truth will come out, sometimes sooner than later, just ask President Nixon, well, ok you know what I mean. I believe the whole Watergate thing to be the last big “real” conspiracy.

    Rule # 2. You can find “proof” to support most any theory but it really don’t make it anymore than a theory with a bunch of proof.

    It is the old cause and effect thingy.

    I love Fonderbread, total fluff, but “Does Fonderbread kill people?” hmm….
    Is there a Fonderbread conspiracy? Let us investigate.
    Everyone I know who has died ate Fonderbread at some time in their life.
    The FDA has approved Fonderbread to be sold as “safe”.
    President Nixon formed the FDA.

    Soo….here it goes.

    I have proof that there is a Fonderbread conspiracy, it is killing people and the government is involved.
    Every one of my family members that has eaten Fonderbread has died. Joe Blow of the FDA continues to report Fonderbread as safe but Joe Blow has a cousin that farms wheat, the main ingredient of Fonderbread. FDA Chairman Blow’s cousin continues to make millions under his Fonderbread contract.
    The FDA was formed under former president Nixon at the height of the Watergate conspiracy as an arm of the federal government. Etc ……

    BTW, for those of you that don’t know, and I did think this was common knowledge, Rosie O’Donnell’s nom de plume is Black Flag. I thought you guys knew.

    “All enlisted men are stupid, but they are cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching.”

    • Thanks for info. I wonder if the ingredients contain by-products of Monsanto which has been killing crops and people around the world. India and So. Africa has banned Monsanto and Germany has just joined in banning this company. Congress has recently forced our farms to use Monsanto.

      • SFC Dick says:


        No no…dude, there is no Fonderbread, it’s a sarcastic bit of uh, sarcasm or something.

        There is no bread conspiracy…
        I say again, no bread conspiracy, none, nada, nay.

        ah man….I even changed the “W” to “F” in my little theater of the stupid to avoid prosecution.

        I know i just shot up about 100 spots on the watch list.

        I can hear it now

        “Uh, yeh Madam Secretary, it’s him again, yes Ma’am, now fomenting dissent with a national “Fonderbread” conspiracy post. No Ma’am, No Ma’am, we are, yes right now we are, we have been since his seditious letters to the CIA and NIA. No Ma’am, we have no idea how he uncovered the global wheat conspiracy. Yes Ma’am, he was at number 275, ahead of Sqeeky Fraum and right behind Rip Torn, we’re moving him up to number 175 on the list as we speak”

        “All enlisted men are stupid, but they are cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching.”

        • USWeapon says:

          Dude, you were ahead of Squeaky Fraum? That Rocks.

          I wonder where I am on the list.

          • SFC Dick says:

            yeh, because of my antagonistic letters to the agency, basically saying ” if you don’y hire me, screw you, remeber, you guys did hire ballard” had gone a bit further in my renouncing the republican party I could fallen back a bit, but since I’m a big Dick fan, as in Nixon, I beat squeeky, Rip Torn is a hard one to surpass.

            Rumor has it, once this blog broke 3K you broke into the top 100. nice

            “All enlisted men are stupid, but they are cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching.”

  28. To Suzyq & others interested – check out this site re Obama’s connections

    Older 1994 info (check out # 8.4)

    Simplified video

  29. susyqbaby says:

    If the truth comes out later, does that make it full proof? I mean after years of trying to keep it inside and then finally coming out you have begun to exaggerate and built it up in your mind that now it is so far from the truth. Plus documents can be forged in that amount of time. So are we really getting the truth?

    Theories are theories and will always be disputed and argued, maybe that is their purpose. ha! I believe the only real proof is to have been there and willing to go on record. But that is not easy from a mental institute or dead.

    • This is an excellent point. Our opinion becomes a belief then almost nothing can move us off of center. Of course that cuts both ways on these and other types of issues.

  30. SusyQ:

    Since you are willing lets start with some review. Have you read all of USW’s posts on “The March to Socialism”?

    If not do that first. It is a good short course (cliff notes) on the history of where our country changed direction from what was intended.

    Also, it is never to late to start reading. Stop watching O’Reilly and all the rest. My only exception would be Glenn Beck and then I would suggest you also listen to him on the radio, not just TV. Use the time saved to read.

    I suggest you start your reading with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. You will need to read them several times to really get the essence of what they are about.

    Then I suggest “The Voice of Reason”, Essays in Objectivist Thought by Ayn Rand. There is some hard reading here but it will give you an idea of the philosophy that was behind our Founders reasons for forming the government they did. It also gives you a good understanding of the major conflict underlying the politics you see played out in public. Warning, you will be offended by the use of certain words we have accepted as having meaning that is not as originally intended. Don’t reject it out of hand, give it some hard thought.

    Third, I suggest “Liberal Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg. This will give you a good history of where our current political/economic system started and how it fits with the agenda of those who now control the Democratic party and how the Republicans are moving in the same direction.

    In the meantime. DO NOT say you have an open mind. This is a word trick which means you have never formed an opinon on principles or values or you are willing to change at a moments notice. Closed mind means you are unwilling to use reason to reach an opinion. YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN AN ACTIVE MIND. That is what you are doing by visiting this site.

    By the way, you need to get to a point in your thinking where you never accept a President or other political type until things go badly. By the time it “goes badly” it is way to late to fix it. If you make the effort you will be able to recognize that they do have an agenda that is not good for us and then you will oppose it, regardless of the person or the party. They want us to live in the moment because then their actions look like a response to an immediate problem. In reality they are carrying out a larger program and only using the immediate problem to further their goals. Remember Mr. Obama’s chief of staff stating “we should never waste a good crisis”?

    If you are up to this journey I and others will stay with you. Ask questions, challenge points and assumptions. Be an active mind.

    One more thing, I was the jock type and started my real studies much later in life, after I was done with school. As I said, it is never to late to learn.

    Best Wishes and Good Reading

    • susyqbaby says:

      Thank you Just a Citizen

      I will get started.

    • susyqbaby says:

      April Fools I have been fooled! I did what you recommended, I am watching Beck. Sliding Differential Scale. We are fooled into thinking the government is solving our problems. It would not matter which party was in charge, Democrats or Republicans our government is just getting bigger. I know what I want to say but it isn’t coming out right.I know you watched Beck tonight so you know what I mean. You turned my head to the right and I caught a glimpse of the light bulb. When we fear the Government that is tyranny, When the Government fears us that is liberty.

      I have an active mind. It feels good.

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