RNC Chairman Steele Says GOP base is Bigoted?

republican-symbolI got wind of this and to be honest I was a bit shocked when I read it. Many of the readers of this blog would consider themselves conservative. At least that is the impression that I get from all the comments. We have a few folks from the left (which I would like to see more of), but a generally conservative base. I often comment that the Republican party is no better than the Democrats these days. And I know I am not alone when I say the Republican party over the last bunch of years has become a party we don’t recognize any longer, and a party that certainly does not get unwavering support. Reading about RNC Chairman Michael Steele’s comments yesterday showed me a side of the Republican party that is exactly why I walked away from them several years ago. 

As many of you will remember, Mitt Romney was a strong candidate in the Republican primaries last year. A former Business CEO (Which, by the way, means he is inherently evil according the class warfare Democrats), former Governor, and someone with absolutely perfect hair 100% of the time. One problem though, he was Mormon. A fact that I certainly didn’t have any problem with. Of all the conservative friends I have, I only knew one person who had a problem with Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith.

Mitt RomneyThat did not stop the liberal media from making it a bigger issue than it should have been during the primaries. According to a Pew study, 30% of the media articles about Romney during the Republican primaries focused on the fact that he is Mormon. I know that the liberals among us will say “so what”. But I want to point out how in the tank the media is for Democrats (with the exception of FoxNews of course). So why was a decidedly biased liberal media so often bringing up his faith? I tend to believe that they were “Creating a controversy” that would make Mitt Romney unelectable. I also believe that they did so because they felt that Romney would make a far tougher opponent for Obama or Clinton than John McCain would. 

Conspiracy talk you say? Perhaps. But I do know this: Regardless of the claims of our beloved liberal pundits here on the site, there is absolutely zero doubt in anyone’s mind (including those liberals, they just don’t want to admit it) that the media is very biased to the left. I don’t want to write a whole other post proving so, but I will if need be. So let’s for the moment just go with admitting that they are, in fact, biased. Given today’s sound-byte political voters, it is easy to see how much influence that media has. And there is no length they will not go to in order to win. So making uneducated voters believe that Romney doesn’t have a chance as a Mormon in this country was an easy way to eliminate him before it got far enough to prove them wrong. About the time the media began running all the “A Mormon Can’t Win the Presidency” articles, McCain surged and Romney fell to the wayside. Just ponder that for a while.

mitt_romney_famous_mormonSince losing the GOP primary to Senator McCain, Romney has insisted that the Republican Party’s base doesn’t have a problem with Mormonism. “I believe that religion will not be a factor of a significant nature in selecting our nominee, regardless of who might run,” Romney told the Deseret News last month. However, Chairman Steele seems to disagree with Mitt on this one. 

Steele was guest hosting Bill Bennett’s radio show on Friday when a caller engaged him in a debate in which the caller calimed that Mitt Romney could have beaten Barack Obama in the Presidential election had he won the primary against McCain. The caller went on to say that Romney would have won the primary if Democrats and the NY Times hadn’t co-opted the GOP primaries.  

Chairman Steele insisted that Romney could not have won because the Republican Party Base “rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism.” His exact comments were:

“Yeah, but let me ask you. Ok, Jay, I’m there with you. But remember, it was the base that rejected Mitt because of his switch on pro-life, from pro-choice to pro-life. It was the base that rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism. It was the base that rejected Mitt, because they thought he was back and forth and waffling on those very economic issues you’re talking about.”

steele-casualI find it extremely interesting that the Chairman of the RNC wants to berate Romney as someone who “flip flops” on issues. Romney did reverse course on abortion, switching from Pro-choice to Pro-Life. But I will concede that anyone can change their mind on a single issue or two. Outside of abortion I didn’t feel that Romney did a whole lot of position changing. Michael Steele, on the other hand, has done plenty of it. And given last night’s post on Democrat flip flopping, it is only fair to point out how adept the Republicans can be at it as well. 

Let’s start with the ban on assault weapons. The Obama administration has made it clear that they intend to reinstate the assault weapons ban (because a silly little thing like the 2nd Amendment shouldn’t get in the way of the Progressive “movement”). Steele’s position revealed in an email to supporters: “Having already taken advantage of our country’s current economic woes to speed the largest, most pork-laden spending spree in history through the Democrat-controlled Congress, the Obama team is again using fear tactics to impose bad policy. Attorney General Eric Holder announced his desire to once again deny law abiding Americans their 2nd Amendment rights, using the ongoing violence in Mexico as justification.” Sounds like a typical Republican position to me. Problem is that in 2006 Steele said, “Society should draw lines. What do you need an assault weapon for, if you’re going hunting? That’s overkill.” Can you say flip flop?

How about abortion, since that was the exact thing he derided Romney for? Chairman Steele said in an interview with GQ magazine that “abortion is an individual choice and said the question should be left to the states.” Steele’s aides are now questioning the context of his words in the interview. Here they are, verbatim:

Interviewer: Are you saying you think women have the right to choose abortion?
Steele: Yeah. I mean, again, I think that’s an individual choice.
Interviewer: You do?
Steele: Yeah. Absolutely.

Seems clear cut to me. However, in an statement released from the RNC last month, Steele said, “I am pro-life, always have been, always will be. The Republican Party is and will continue to be the party of life. I support our platform and its call for a Human Life Amendment. It is important that we stand up for the defenseless and that we continue to work to change the hearts and minds of our fellow countrymen so that we can welcome all children and protect them under the law.” Result: flip flop.

Flip_Flops_largeGay Marriage? Back before he was the Chairman of the Republican party, Steele stated that he personally opposes a federal marriage amendment to ban same-sex marriage and believes that states should decide the issue for themselves. Refreshing to see a Republican leader who is against banning gay marriage. But wait, after Maine legalized gay marriage, he issued a statement: “Our party platform articulates our opposition to gay marriage and civil unions, positions shared by many Americans. I believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman and strongly disagree with Maine’s decision to legalize gay marriage.” Can I say it one more time? Flip Flop!

But I digress. I just had to point out that a serial flip flopper on issues has no business deriding Mitt Romney because he flipped on one issue. 

My bigger issue is that he thinks that the GOP base is bigoted. Where does he get off saying something like that? Is there any wonder that blacks and other minority groups have flocked to the Democratic party when the LEADER of the Republican party is a black man telling the world that the Republican party is bigoted to the core? And why is it that whenever I hear someone in government that has a position of power, and who is also a minority of some type, their core belief is always that America, underneath it all is bigoted? This goes right back the victim mentality that I feel permeates the American soul.

 

Heading for the Drive-Thru

Heading for the Drive-Thru

When someone doesn’t succeed, there seems to be an inherent need to blame it on some deep rooted undercurrent that got in the way of success. Didn’t get rich? That is because the mean capitalists wouldn’t let you. Didn’t get that job? That is because the bigoted white people don’t like minorities. Your child got sick? That is because the horrible CDC chose the wrong flu vaccine this year. Didn’t make it to work on time? Stupid people can’t drive and they held you up. Weigh northwards of 400 pounds? Those damn fast food joints set you up for failure, telling you 6 burgers for lunch is healthy! Nothing is your fault anymore. Forget that you were too lazy to work hard and get rich, you weren’t qualified for the job, you didn’t teach your child to wash their hands, your poor planning and poor time management made you late, or that you chose to eat like a pig and not exercise.

 

The bottom line: Michael Steele is a poor choice as leader of the GOP. He has a victim mentality and a horribly skewed view of the base of the party. I expect Democrats to throw around accusations of bigotry, it is simply part of the class warfare effective tactics model. But not the GOP, bigotry accusations are not part of their M.O.. I don’t think most people cared one way or the other whether Mitt Romney was Mormon. Had he been Muslim, I think it might have been an issue. But then again, America knew Obama went to a church that preached hate for 20 years, and that didn’t seem to bother them one bit. So I can’t imagine that Americans wouldn’t accept that Romney went to a Mormon church that wasn’t saying “God Da*! America”. 

I just don’t think that mainstream Americans are all that bigoted anymore. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think so.

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Comments

  1. sarahii says:

    I agree with you, though I have been one of those ‘evil left-wingers’ as of late. The difference in stance on the issues between the parties all, well, foggy. It’s my perception that neither party is certain of their direction, although I will say that the Republican Party is not even wishy washy on issues, it seems as though the GOP is complacent and confused. Which is unfortunate, because then the Dems don’t have to be so certain to counter their opponents, and that is just weak politics. Kinda like publicity stunts… and frankly Americans are likely joining in the complacency and not reacting to bigoted statements as they were durring the ruckas of election.

  2. SFC Dick says:

    What the?

    Mitt Romney is Mormom?

    I’ll be damned, ya don’t say.

    I must have missed that point in the primary where he took a moment, looked the American people in the eye and said ” a bit of a bio folks, Former CEO, I’ve got better hair than Jimmy Johnson and, oh yeh, I’m a Mormom”

    It kinda happened for me over a day or two. I wasn’t watching TV much, probably spending my time drinking beer and playing in the woods.

    I remeber one day just having been inundated with “Mormom…” from the press that I took tim out of my day, went online and did a search on the “Mormom” candidate ( I have been a big John M fan for years so the nuances of the primary were none of my concern. I was going to vote John M ) I got a picture online and remember thinking..”Oh, that dude, with the incredible hair” Then I logged off.

    Steele is a Maroon, nice work GOP, Good going, Top choice that.

    “All enlisted men are stupid, but they are cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching.”

  3. Truthseeker says:

    I happily admit that I was pulling for Mitt the entire time. I was shocked that a few of my collegues say they will never vote for a “Mormon”. Talking about bigots and hypocrisy. America was ready for the first black president, but not a mormon? What is up with that. People are supposed to believe in candidates issues, not their skin color or religous belief. I am atheist and was pulling for Mitt, not because he was a Mormon, but because I liked his message and his experience. I really hate dumb americans that vote blindly.

    • Alan F. says:

      I believe those depraved Osmond’s set the stage for Mormon fear mongering. I also believe those who placed Mr Steele where he is themselves believe the party needs to be reshaped as a centrist one. They’ll do that knowing full well that the right will vote for them too as the other dog in this race is one they’d never bet on.

      • esomhillgazette says:

        Osmonds?

        • Cumon Esom

          Donnie and Marie

          • esomhillgazette says:

            I KNOW who they are. I just thought they were themselves Mormons. How did they set the stage for fear mongering? Or was that a joke and I just didn’t get it?

            • Alan F. says:

              Tongue firmly planted in cheek in this instance. This very line “America was ready for the first black president, but not a mormon?” carries the day. With an electorate largely uninformed as the glass teat is indeed their source material, were you to ask them to name 2 Mormons most likely Donnie and Marie would be their response.

    • We (I) just didn’t a chance to hear what Romney’s position’s are/were. Whatever I heard through the Obama/clinton noise, there wasn’t much left over for Romney. The fact that he was successful, he spent his OWN money, well known via the olympics, even won governor in liberal Massachusetts etc etc – he should have been a shoe in.

      Since 1991 when I finally canceled my Time magazine subscription, I’ve also had suspicions about the subtle mind influences in TV programs. I have a basic belief that TV is/was/should be as inviolate non-bias entertainment.

      So it was several years ago, I exclaimed to my liberal/moderate significant other that liberal hollywood was scared of Romney because of the HBO show about a mormon with multiple wives that was supposed to be humorous. Maybe you’ll remember the name. There was just something about it, that besides not being funny was trying to influence me. Of course she thought I was crazy.

      Then there was that guy that they were chasing around with a bunch of wives. And then there was that group in Texas that was news for weeks and weeks, tho I think it ended up that everyone was fine and they were doing what they wanted to do. Or was that part of the same group?

      My thought after it kept going and going was: how come these stories are going nationwide NOW? These guys have been going this for a while.

      In retrospect, I think of all the original candidates that Romney would have been the only one to make real changes.

  4. As much as I hate to say it, bigotry is very alive and well in this country. Most people are in denial, but it’s in all of us, it’s human nature. We suppress it because it is not a good thing, and just causes problems. I’ve also noticed a change, especially between blacks and whites, what racism was 30 years ago is reversed. I hear far more hateful racist remarks made by black people than by whites.

    The biased media had alot to do with quieting bigotry, great sitcoms like “All in the Family” (I still laugh thinking about Archie Bunker) made bigotry look stupid as well as funny. I believee there will be a big return of open bigotry in the future, especially if Black Flags predictions come to pass.

    G!

    • esomhillgazette says:

      My thoughts exactly G! Archie Bunker WAS funny precisely BECAUSE he made bigots look dumb. Bigotry is just stupid. Regardless of which racial group or religion does it.

      You are also right that it is in all of us. The good part is that those of us with thinking brains supress and reject it as just that; stupid. Even Obama, with his message of “hope and Change” and “can’t we all get along as all Americans”, has a bigoted slant in his message. Not racially prejudiced.

      He is just fine with any group as long as they agree with him, just not if they disagree. He and his cronies are just as bigoted as any others when it comes to Conservatives disagreeing with their policies. An Example is: His and Pelosi’s comments on the Tea Parties. Along with most of the Democrats laughing and cracking jokes.

    • Richmond Spitfire says:

      Good Morning all!

      First, I hope everyone had a lovely Mother’s Day! We sure did!

      **********************

      Yes, G-Main is right, the only difference I would makes is that “Prejudice” is alive and well in our world.

      In my opinion, there will ALWAYS be a form of “Affective Prejudice” (i.e. refers to what people like and dislike – from Wiki). It is simply the nature of humans to not prefer (i.e. dislike) other humans that are different from them. “Affective Predjudice” in of itself is not a “bad” thing. I couldn’t begin to list the “differences” that humans have “Affective Prejudice” over. People can and do accept differences in other humans and are able to live constructively (and play nice) with those who differ.

      I challenge anyone here to tell me that they are not prejudiced in one way or another as I’ve described above. If you have EVER said, “I dislike….”, then you are prejudiced.

      From Wiki: Bigot is often used describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.

      IMO, a “bigot” is not really a bad thing either…In some cases, bigotry in a human can trace it’s hold back to familial conditioning or even a traumatic event that occurred in a person’s life…there are many reasons for being bigoted (including ignorance).

      Prejudice and bigotry become a PROBLEM when a person acts upon their beliefs in a negative way…which takes us back to discussion held at this site a couple of days ago — if the negative action taken do result in breaking law, then the person should be held accountable for their actions and legally prosecuted.

      BTW…I believe that the OJ Trial did more “Race Relations” damage than anything I ever remember (I was born in ’66).

      On a side note, calling a person a name is protected under our 1st Amemdment Right, but that doesn’t necessarily make it “right” from my moral compass; therefore, I don’t utter those words; but I have to say, I do “think” them — depending on the situation.

      Regarding Michael Steele: As the paid mouth-piece of the Republican Party, I beleive that he’s trying to adjust the party’s platform to better represent the “polling” that they’ve been performing. While I could care less about what Michael Steele’s PERSONAL beliefs are, I do care whether or not the Republican Party has a core set of values that I can live with or without. IMHO…that simplified core set of values should look something like this:

      * Fiscal Responsibility (Use my money wisely)
      * National Security (Keep me and my family safe)
      * Constitutional Responsibility (Allow me to keep my freedoms so that I can live my life as I see fit)

      (I’m sure there are some left out, but haven’t had enough coffee yet this morning 🙂 )

      I hope everyone has a wonderful Monday.

      Regards,
      RS

    • Alan F. says:

      Its already here when you look at being able to openly mock people based upon religion or conservatism mercilessly and be lauded by the mainstream media outlets for doing such. I’ve seen Pat Roberts and his Evangelicals getting denigrated too many times to mention yet can’t find the same for Pastor Jeremiah Wright and the Trinity United Church of Christ for spewing idiocy nor Lewis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam in spite of his openly spewing raw hatred for decades.

      • Alan F. says:

        Oh and before I myself get tagged, I’m not an organized religion type myself although I do admit to my kindest friends themselves being very much so. Maybe I need them to offset my best friend being an uber atheist to make most others appear imbecilic?

      • How about the way Miss CA was treated for her conservative, religious beliefs? Freedom of speech? I don’t think so.

        • You only have Freedom of Speech in this Country now when your speech agrees with the popular view. When it doesn’t you get verbally powerbombed like Miss Kalifornia did.

          Amazing how she didn’t have the right to state her religious views but Perez Hilton did have the right to talk nasty when he dragged her through the gutter for saying it.

          • Alan F. says:

            I love that saying “no” to gay marriage is NOT representing California where as saying YES or turning into a bubble head and copping to being far to uninformed to even have an opinion indeed is. If the latter represents California to the Hollywood types satisfaction, I would say there’s a valid reason for drug testing at polling stations.

  5. Good article, I can’t believe Steele is the head of the GOP.
    I agree G-man on the racism being reversed and I feel like it has been that way for at least a decade. That being said my opinion is that the media in their agenda to push Obama and all of his wishes down our throats might be starting to turn the reversal on racism full 360.

    • To quote Kid Rock from the song Amen..

      “How can we seek salvation when our Nations race relations have me feeling guilty for being white”

      Amen!

  6. First of all, I readily agree that the majority of the Main Stream Media holds liberal views. A friend pointed out how this allows the public to be subjected to left leaning views 5 times more likely, to which I replied, only if they are strapped to a chair and can’t change the channel. Of course, I understand that there are exposures to these views that fall outside the realm of simple television news sources [liberally biased movies, TV shows, books, etc]. But attempts to control them are a slippery slope.

    One of the problems is that the public doesn’t want realistic stories, especially in works of fiction. I’m reminded of a movie called “The Vanishing”. The original version, made in France, depicts the events of a psychopathic killer who kills a woman and later her boyfriend. The original telling was very disturbing, but won critical acclaim. The American remake HAD to have a reasonably “happy” ending.

    Regarding a certain element of the original post: Doesn’t bringing up the idea that the MSM created an issue of Mitt Rommy’s religion, and therefore he failed to win the GOP primary, seem too similar to blaming fast food companies for weight problems?

    I feel America, like a big automobile rolling down the road, is exposed to certain obstacles. In attempting to avoid these obstacles, the public at the wheel will steer left or right. Time will tell if we have entered a phase where we continue to over-correct and create worse problems [the bailouts sure felt like it], as well as where the road leads.

    • USWeapon says:

      Lortz,

      I believe that the American voter does not want to waste their vote. Many hold that vote sacred and want to make sure that when they cast it, they are doing so with purpose. When the MSM made the case that America would not vote for a Mormon, many Republicans then decided that they weren’t going to “waste” their vote on a candidate that did not have a chance to win.

    • SFC Dick says:

      Or…

      I don’t care if the media affected the vote one way or the other ( for arguments sake) They did what they did.

      No need to excuse bad behavior or twist some logic with

      “Doesn’t bringing up the idea that the MSM created an issue of Mitt Rommy’s religion, and therefore he failed to win the GOP primary, seem too similar to blaming fast food companies for weight problems?”

      If I watch some dude run over and start pouring gas on a burning house it realy don’t make a damn bit of difference if.

      he didn’t start the house fire

      He didn’t accelerate the blaze

      he had no effect

      When I say, “looks like that guy tried to affect the fire”

      that’s it.

      That’s the point.

      the media seemed to be trying to affect the outcome.

      Of all the canidates in that race, these many months past, I can still tell you one of the canidates religious order, rock solid.

      anymore than generalizations towards the other canidates preferences would loose me, I just can’t say for sure if this or that is luetheran, protestant etc.

      We all know Mitt is a Mormom.

      Ipso Facto

  7. Ray Hawkins says:

    Our country needs and benefits from a strong multi-party system. Much as I may disdain most of what the Republican party stands for, having an idiot like Steele at the helm only makes it worse. There is a reason that party is suffering greatly, when you have jerks like Dick “Creepy” Cheney and Rush “Boss” Limbaugh battling with respected statesmen like Gen. Colin Powell while the media plays and re-plays the cattiness of John “Perfect Tan/Too much Botox” Boehner and Eric “Never met a media opp I didn’t like” Cantor; you end up with a party of loose canons that makes even the worst/most liberal Democrat look like the best available option. For entertainment purposes I say “keep it up guys, I love the comic relief and wondering which of you will look like the biggest dickhead of the day”. When reality sinks in and I am done laughing my ass off I feel bummed because it makes it even more likely that this craziness will manifest as hate in 3.5 years when they figure out that they have no message and have to resort to more name calling, fear politics and the methods so espoused by Lee Atwater and Karl Rove.

    For the record I would have no issue with a Mormon CiC – my college roomie was a Mormon and he and I played many of years of football together. I never had anything but the utmost respect and admiration for him.

    • Ray, I don’t belong to a political party. With that said, I don’t believe for a minute that political parties are benefiting us at all. If anything, strong political parties, like we have now, are keeping very intelligent people from running for public office. Those of us who are independent are basically left out of the political system because the “parties” are highly financed.

      In my hometown, the democrats have a huge hold on the politics. Here’s where I find that a problem, this area has been depressed since the steel mills closed in the 70’s, and now 30+ years later, it has only gotten worse. Yet, the f#^&ing morons keep voting for the same political party (democrats). So, in a sense, they vote for things to get worse. This year, the mayor is up for reelection, and will most likely win, because A- he is a democrat, B- voters here are f#^*^ng idiots, C- noone has the financial backing to campaign to the level needed to win.

      I could run my city 1000 times better than the jerk in office now. Our current Mayor has no balls when it comes to stopping crime (we are in the top ten of the FBI’s most dangerous cities), he has actually cost this city about 400 jobs, all in the name of politics.

      So explain to me how a strong multi party system actually helps, rather than hinder, as I explained above.

      Hope you have a great day!

      G!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        I’m stating simply that in lieu of whatever ya’ll decide Plan B is – under the current conditions an organized GOP voice is better than none at all. All we have now is comic relief/fodder for folks like Matt Taibbi.

        • Ray, My reply and question was based on your first sentence. Since I am fundamentally against political parties, I gave a factual example of how they are a hinderance, rather than helpful, to our country. Although I seemed to be attacking Democrats, I would feel the same way if the GOP had the power. I would like to here your views on the example I provided.

          G!

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Ray,

      The epithets which you choose to use to describe some Republican politicians, as well as a conservative radio talk show host do nothing to advance the conversation. They are just more examples of what the media has taught you as descriptions of these people.

      And, for the record, both parties are very adept at using both personal attacks and fear. If you think that Lee Atwater and Karl Rove have the market cornered on those tactics, you haven’t been listening to Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama much (or at least not listening to them critically). For them, everything is a “crisis” which must be acted upon “immediately”. Such terminology is by definition inciting fear.

      I am not saying that Republicans haven’t used fear tactics as well, they obviously have. Just realize that the other side is just as adept at it, if not even more so.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Republicans are just better at fear tactics when it comes to hijacking elections.

        And for my ‘epithets’ – I don’t recall seeing you pound the same drum when the majority here takes joy at doing the same to President Obama – what gives eh? I can’t have any fun here?

        • esomhillgazette says:

          Hey, I’m all for fun Ray. You use your epithets and I’ll use mine. Heck we all need to inject a little humor into the conversations sometimes!

          I personally like the “Creepy” Cheney and especially the “Boss” Limbaugh ones. My point is that you are right. We use them to describe Obamatons and Nazi Pelosi, so why can’t you use yours? I sure ain’t gonna stop. 🙂

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Thanks Esom – we all need a little levity esp. on a Monday

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            Ok Ray, you do have a point there, I don’t tend to pound the same drum when I see the same type of epithets used to describe the likes of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi. I mostly gloss over them. I personally try not to use them myself, however. My feeling is that they add nothing to the conversation regardless of which side they are describing, so to be consistent I should be against their use overall.

            Thanks for pointing that out 🙂

            • esomhillgazette says:

              He does have a point about it being Monday also! 😀

              My smile’s gittin’ bigger!

        • USWeapon says:

          Republicans are better at fear tactics when it comes to hijacking elections? Oh I think that the Dems are doing more than holding their own in that arena. We just elected a Democrat to the White House using back door fear tactics. “The economy is spinning out of control. Big business is out to get you. You need us to protect you.”

          It is all very 1984 as far as I am concerned. “The horrible capitalists are out of control and Big Brother will save you.”

          Terrorists, capitalists…. all the same in politician’s eyes. Either one is a good excuse to take control and liberty away from the people. Given the fact that the Democrats in 3 months have managed to do far more damage than the Republicans did using the tactics for 8 years, I would say the Dems are far better at the fear mongering than the GOP. Both parties play the fear mongering game equally well. Shame on you for failing to acknowledge that fact.

          • Richmond Spitfire says:

            Well said US Weapon!

          • Obama said “John McCain is offering four more years of the failed policies of George Bush”.

            Pelosi, “Bushes failed economic policies brought us to this”.

            Never a word about Barney Franks & Chris Dodd & their interference on preventing Fannie/Freddie’s
            failure, that Bush tried to prevent.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Shame on me? Who invented “opinion polling”? At least Democrats have the stones to point directly to what they think the problem are and how they plan to fix them. Willie Horton? Swift Boats? Obama’s citizenship? C’mon – enough of this tit for tat shit. Line ’em up and stack ’em up – at the end of the day you decide who is fuller of shit and who has the guts to at least tell you what they’re going to do.

          • Wait a minute USWeapon have you even read the Patriot Act? The name of it still amuses me. Saying that the current administration has done irrevocable damage in 3 months is just as sensationalistic as what the far left have been saying about Bush for the last 8 years.

        • Alan F. says:

          Republicans are better at fear mongering? Not on your life. They don’t have half the media machine the Democrats enjoy. If it were not for Bush alienating the center, the election would have had a different outcome as the diff was less than 8% and good old W was knocking that many loose on just weekends. You’ll no doubt say that’s not the case but why then would your very own candidate drone on and on and on and on and on about a vote for McCain being one for Bush? It must have been an important part of the Democratic core strategy to have enjoyed such a reoccurring roll in the “message” of hope. Then you throw in the media’s continuous pining over their leg tingling “future president” for good measure and that 8% starts to look a little anemic for what the Democrats had to work from and we’re not even factoring in finances.

          Hell, our own Liberals in Canada had the benefit of Brian Mulroney royally eviscerating his own Conservative party like no other had done before in Canadian history and we’re back to a Conservative government. Too far one way leads to too far the other and on it goes.

          There’s a whole lot of reality that’s going to set in over the next 18 months and if that magical group “the rich” isn’t there to shoulder the load to whom are they going to pass it? If these “green” jobs are few and far between where will people find employment? If health care reform adversely affects anyone in your “sue me, sue you” world and it most certainly will as it has here, who is going to eat those liabilities?

          There’s a lot not being thought of at all.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            You like apples Alan? They scared us into an illegal war that we will pay for for generations and cost thousands of lives – in terms of effect they are pretty good at fear mongering. How do you like those apples?

            • Alan F. says:

              It was an easy sell based upon preliminary conditions no? The exact same case can be made for the election. Circumstances tend to hand the politico a blank cheque now and then. All any of us can hope for at such a time is that they temper their spending.

            • Alan F. says:

              This is an enjoyable exchange Ray. Glad you’re here.

            • USWeapon says:

              First, its is not an illegal war. Stop quoting the MSM and hollywood on that one. Congress voted for that war, which makes it legal, whether the liberals want to agree with it now or not.

              Second. The dems created class warfare and made Americans fear heir own neighbors and employers. And they might not have cost thousands of lives yet, but in 4 months they have tripled the deficit and spent more that both wars combined to date.

              I like apples just fine. How do you like yours?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                The vote was made under false pretenses – it doesn’t take a MSM to figure that out. The cretins in the WH at the time played the media like a finely tuned instrument. They cooked the books and used fear to generate one of the greatest lies in decades.

                I’m not ready to sign off on who created class warfare. The GOP is just as good at playing that game as anyone – they just do it in surreptitious ways to perpetuate classes vis a vis NIMBYism and bootstrap theories that are no more baked than some of the failures of the far left.

              • They’re cretins and then they’re so much smarter than the smart MSM !! Make up your mind.

                Did you ever listen to Cheney’s interviews or speeches? What did he say that you’re so against?

                The times I did, based on my beliefs, I found him on target most of the time . And honestly can’t see why you or any anti-bush person would be so antagonistic. Under Clinton, I didn’t like Gore, Carvel (?) etal, but I had specific reasons why I disagreed.

    • Ray, I don’t know if you are pulling our legs or not. Colin Powell was a respected statesman, I guess that means he can’t ever be wrong. Sort of like that older respected statesman Neville Chamberlain, you remember him, he was the one that prevented the second world war and gave us peace in our time.

      If there were cretins at the White House who played the media like a fiddle, what does that make the media? Your choices are, Idiots, Imbicles or Morons. Doesn’t wash my friend. Your conspiracy would have to include all the intellegence services of Britian, France, Germany, Russia and Israel. That’s one damn big secret to keep.

      Bootstrap theories work, Malcom X, one of my heroes was a huge proponent and tonight, I get to go to a town council meeting in a town 85% democrat where the topic will be: “How to stop state mandated low income housing”. NIMBY’s come in all sizes, colors, sexes, religions etc.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        First off – Colin Powell IS a respected statesman, not was – it was Cheney-Bush that made him look like an idiot. These guys get real careful with what words they choose so they can claim plausible denial – or claim it for someone else – much as Cheney did on Face the Nation on Sunday. I find it astonishing how that debacle is seemingly justified a posteriori even with what was not found – and don’t pull this ‘intel’ b.s. on me – I’m tired of people running for cover and claiming “there’s stuff you don’t know man!” when the water leaks from the argument. The GOP/Cheney/Bush changed the intent of the mission and its okay – the guy in office now does it and he is a pariah. Puh-leeze

        • Answer the question, can’t an is/was respected statesman ever be wrong? That’s the question.

          Camberlain merely proves that sometimes a respected statesman can become a formerly respected statesman. As Chairman of the JCS Powell knew intellegence about as well as anyone could. One would think that if he felt he was hornswaggled by GOP/Bush/Cheny he would have made us aware of it by now. the democrats in congress knew intellegence, the MSM knew intellegence, were these guys all out on Darvon or something in the run up? Or, God forbid!!! did they actually think Sadaam, that SOB, had WMD’s?

          The invasion/occupation of Iraq was never big on my hit parade.

          Regarding intel BS, I don’t use it to justify anything merely to point out everybody was either lazy or wrong or both. Rocket science at the CIA, after missing the signs for 9/11, then called Iraq WMD’s a “slam dunk”. I seem to remember he was not appointed by the RNC. Ignoring little “facts” like that does nothing to improve your credibility with me.

          Pariah only occurs when I see the US helicopters lifting off from the embassy roof in Kabul and/or Bagdad as I did from Saigon.

          I had to deal with the very same thing last week at a reunion, a very old friend whom I have not seen in 40 years assumed that I “hate” immigrants because I want the border controlled (not closed) and that I was a Bush/Cheny supporter because I disagree with Obama on most things. I’ll tell you what I told him. I resent that. Do not presume anything about me unless you know me or at least listen to my rationale.

      • oooops – gotta read all before posting !! LOL

  8. When I saw Steele get the head spot for the GOP, I thought wow that was a bad choice. He does flip flop on almost every subject and has not been a leader for that party. To me he just adds gasoline to a fire.

  9. I was a Mitt supporter and his being a Mormom did not concern me one bit, so even when he had his “religion talk” I was baffled, as in why give it legs?

    This is a common problem with Republicans, we try to explain and educate, thinking that intelligent folks will then understand. I think we need to pick up more of the left’s tactic of just ignoring and plowing ahead – told a few lies? Oh well. Exaggerated the facts? Oh well. Didn’t follow the rules? Oh well.

    And life goes on and they move forward.

  10. Mr. Steele seems to be having a rough time of it. The last thing the we need is the complete chaos that is the current state of the Republican party; if viable candidates do not emerge for 2010 with a strong national platform, the rules of the game could be irrevocably changed by 2012 by the shenanigans of the current Congress and administration, thus ensuring a dominant one party government for years to come. That my friends, is very bad news, as I can attest to here in RI, land of one party rule.

    I agree with Mr. Steele that some parts of the GOP base are bigoted, just as some part of the the Democrat base are prejudiced against white people. But in the absence of a fair minded media, which will discuss both sides of the coin, he should not have said it, as it just feeds into stereotypes, and I don’t believe that that part of the Republican base is mainstream America. Perception is reality, and as the chief marketer for the party, he is doing it a disservice with such divisive words.

    I also agree with Lonie and G-Man, that the issue of racism will worsen, and probably significantly, under this administration. I have maintained that thought for almost a year now, despite Obama’s campaign rhetoric of being a unifier. There exists a long-simmering outrage at affirmative action and reverse discrimination, which will come to a head with the redistributive mindset of the administration. There is also the issue of being called a “racist” if one disagrees with this mindset. When people who are not racist are continuously called racist for no valid reason, eventually the moniker becomes worn out and loses it’s punch. Instead of unifying people, I think that this will cause an even deeper and more widespread divide.

    • I agree with you MadMom. I am afraid this administration whether by design or not is dividing this nation as I have never seen before.

    • Nelson T says:

      I agree totally w/ your statements. I too believe that race relations will worsen dramatically during this presidential term. I fear that the black and hispanic voter base will tire of the promises undelivered and will resort to other means of getting what they deem as their due. I believe it will manifest as a division between the “haves” and the “have nots” and will certainly develope into a Racial issue. This administration has accomplished nothing to unify.

  11. esomhillgazette says:

    So Romney flipped on Abortion. Maybe his God got on him about his view and changed his mind on it? Or maybe his Church did? I don’t really have much to say because this happened so early during the elections, that I wasn’t really paying much attention at the time.

    In the Georgia Primary I wanted to vote for Mike Huckaby. I had to vote Democrat because if you don’t here you don’t get to vote for ANYONE locally. I think that is a dumbass law that needs to be changed, but that’s the way it is right now. So, I voted for Hillary Clinton. I DID say I HAD to vote Democrat didn’t I?

    Steele is a flipity flopper from the gitgo. This man has continuously pissed me off since he backed up for Rush Limbaugh and apologized to him. Why? I don’t care who was right in that stupid argument, say what you mean and mean what you say. If you felt he was wrong and said so, whether right or wrong, don’t change your story and back up because of the doody storm it causes. That is how you felt. Don’t apologize for it!

    I have more respect by far for those who stick with what comes out of their mouths than I do those who change their story because the wind changes direction away from them. To me you lose credibility when you do so.

    For ALL Politicians out there. SAY WHAT YOU MEAN AND MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. This will gain you more respect than flip-flopping any day.

  12. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Hello All,

    Quick Hijack and need to vent (Sorry) 😦

    Has anyone seen the Fox News Headline this morning regarding Healthcare & the Industry (on their own, mind you) coming up with a plan to reduce Health Care costs by a $2 Trillion reduction in spending increases???? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/10/health-care-industry-reps-offer-trillion-savings-source-says/

    I find this very frustrating. My mother who wasn’t eligable for Medi-care had to spend over $120K (yes, $120,000) in Healthcare Premiums (with many riders on her policy) over a 10-year period. My parents basically depleted their life savings & 401K for this. And now, the industry FINALLY decides that they are going to do something about the high cost of health insurance so that Obama’s Socialist Healthcare plan won’t cut into their profits for insuring Middleclass America. This is Bulldookey and totally smacks to me of past price-fixing!

    I’m really po’d about it!

    RS

    • I agree RS, I work at a hospital, and guess where some of that savings will come from? The hourly workers, who else.

      G!

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hmmm…G-Man,

        I also have suspect that the “savings” will come from jacking-up premiums on the Middleclass people who already are paying for their insurance.

        My company does pay alot of the cost for my insurance…Example:

        My 19-year old daughter lost her insurance coverage (thru my work) on her birthday. The COBRA letter that she got, but her continued cost (for health ins only) at $485 a month. When insured thru my work, I paid an additional $160 a month for children added to my coverage. We cannot afford the additional $485. She is unable to afford it on her income as a waitress at a pizza joint. Now she has no health insurance and I worry.

        I sincerely hope that your income is not affected, but I’m sure it will be.

        Regards,
        RS

        • esomhillgazette says:

          My oldest loses his coverage within the next couple of months because he is not in school anymore. So I know exactly where you are coming from. What a bunch of Horse Hockey!

        • Good Morning RS,

          Cobra is often the most expensive option for insurance. My daughter recently left her job to “roam” and had to find insurance. Cobra through her previous employer was ridiculously expensive but she was able to find some short term major medical insurance much cheaper through other sources. Research independent agencies or look for policies for the self- employed, like NASE, for instance. Being young, she’s counting on staying healthy and paying out of pocket, if need be, for the minor things, but it’s major medical you can’t do without.

          • Richmond Spitfire says:

            Hi Kathy,

            Thank you for the suggestion…We will definately look into that option!

            Regards,
            RS

        • Amazed1 says:

          Check with Blue Cross Blue Shield….I got a fairly good policy for my son at 35 per month

    • esomhillgazette says:

      Hey RS

      All that means to me is that they could have done this all along. I also noticed that they are not going to lower prices, just reduce the amount that they were going to RAISE them in the future. You are right. It IS bulldookey and they WERE price fixing in the past.

      My Mama and Daddy watched their insurance rates jump from 500 to almost 1500 dollars a month in the last 10 years or so. Every year, the older they got, the more their rate went up. If my Dad hadn’t gotten his Veteran’s Disability, they were going to have to drop their insurance. Then they would have been totally screwed! I can’t imagine not having that option.

      My family can’t really afford our part of the Health Insurance my wife has on us. We have too though because the alternative, NONE, is unthinkable and would be disastrous financially. We are cutting corners every way we can to make it through.

      Did you see at the bottom of the Article where it said that they are trying to pass a bill requiring ALL Americans to have health insurance like we have to have car insurance now? What does THAT mean? Is there going to be a cap on whether or not the Government is going to provide you with insurance? And then, the rest of us are going to be FORCED to PAY for it? Oh great! Just Great! What a bunch of frickin’ morons! 😦

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Esom,

        Don’t get me started on Car Insurance! This whole thing is getting me more and more agitated! 😉

        Let me see…if you don’t have Health Insurance, what are they gonna do…FINE YOU!????

        The whole theory behind this is ludicrous…We have Car Insurance because owning a car can be a liability…so, if you don’t own a car, you have no liability.

        SOOOOO…They are basically telling us that by virtue of being alive, we are a liability!

        I’m venting again…my emotion is up on this one…

        RS

        • Richmond Spitfire says:

          Let me be sane for a moment here and make a suggestion for a possible solution that may have a positive impact for cost of all types of Liability Insurance.

          That solution would be to place monetary caps on lawsuits. Afterall, there is an industry out there fueled by frivolous lawsuits.

          • Too true, Obama should have had the lawyers at the same meeting with the health care officials. Frivolous lawsuits have done more damage to the health care in this country.

          • esomhillgazette says:

            There is already, at least in Georgia, a cap on the amount you can receive in a Worker’s Comp suit. Yet there is not one for any other type of insurance suit. You can fall in Wal-mart and get $1 million. If you get hurt at work though, even badly, you can’t get but at most 60 or 70 thousand.

            This even if you LOSE a limb! And also even if (as in my case) it is through Company negligence that you get hurt.

            I was told that that is why they have WC ins, to guard against Liability for accidents.

        • Bee in my Bonnet says:

          Sorry RS, this won’t help you in your emotional state.

          In 2006, the state of Massachusetts mandated health insurance coverage for all adults. Individual uninsured taxpayers would be fined for failure to comply. The uninsured taxpayers were denied their personal state tax exemption ($219) for failing to purchase insurance.

  13. Reply to post 12-

    There is something fishy here, as if the industry have been raping us all along, does anyone else smell it? I can say, that it costs quite alot of $ to keep a hospital running, as it is very regulated. I pay the bills for the support services, and I spend tens of thousands a day!

    Esom, my dad went through the VA for his healthcare, and it is virtually free to him, and he is on O2, 24/7. Yet despite this, they still take a medicare premium out of his SS.

    G!

    • esomhillgazette says:

      Mine’s too G! He is 100% disabled and ALL his healthcare is free. He is under the Agent Orange thing-a-ma-jig. Their health insurance has gone down now simply because my Mom is now over 65 and theirs is now reduced to a supplemental policy.

  14. Bee in my Bonnet says:

    I know this post won’t make me very popular but I don’t understand the talk about health insurance. I’m from Canada and everyone gets health care here.
    Please excuse my ignorance but do you pay a monthly fee? Is it private or through your employer? If someone can’t afford insurance, are they actually turned away at the Doctor’s office or hospital?
    I am ashamed to say that I am usually well versed in many areas but I am completely uninformed in this one. We have urban myths that swirl around in Canada about the US health system but I’m never sure what is true or not.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      I am sure that we could write for hours on American Health Care.

      Some people have health care that is 100% employer-provided (though that is a vanishing breed). Many people have health insurance that is part self-provided and part employer-provided. Quite a few people have health insurance that is 100% self-provided, and a fairly large number of people have no health care coverage at all.

      It is unlawful for a hostpital do deny care to an uninsured person in the case of Emergency Care, which is why you see many hospital emergency rooms clogged with uninsured people with a head-cold here in America.

      I could write a ton more about that, but there is at least a brief summary for you 🙂

      • Bee in my Bonnet says:

        Thanks PeterB! I, too, could talk about this all day as this is the first forum that I have engaged in where people are open about talking about it without putting down the system that I live under.

        I’ll stop now as this is really hijacking the current thread.

        I look forward to a future discussion on health care.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hi Peter,

        I’d also like to add (Peter, please keep me straight here) that low income folks who don’t have private insurance can get “state” Medicaid.

        In addition, there are “clinics” all over the place that do provide preventive healthcare (and dental) for the indigent. Also, there are County Health Departments that assist folks needing healthcare.

        For folks who do need to go to the Emergency Room, usually the hospital with either write-off the cost or use a sliding scale dependent on the uninsured’s income.

        One of my biggest gripes is that for people who do have Private Insurance, sometimes the Insurance Companies won’t allow for certain test/treatments even though Physician prescribed.

        Hope this helps Bee! So Bee…in my humble opinion, millions upon millions of citizens (and illegal immigrants) in the United States are not going without medical attention.

        Regards,
        RS

        • Bee in my Bonnet says:

          Another myth busted. Thanks RS.

          • Richmond Spitfire says:

            Oh, and Bee…wanted to mention too Mental Healthcare. In my State and County (Virginia/Chesterfield County), you can go to the County Mental Health Department and get all the mental healthcare that you need, counseling, prescriptions for meds — not sure if meds are free though, etc.

            An example where I’ve used it…My Ex and I have to learn how to effectively co-parent. I think he’s an @ss, he thinks I’m an @ss. I say the sky is blue, he says it is gray. I’m sure you get the picture 😉 Anyway, we called up the Mental Health Department and met for several months with a Social Worker who attempted to help us to arrive to a better co-parenting relationship. At one point, we were meeting with two social workers at the same time. This was all for free even though we both had medical insurance.

            The resources available to Americans (and I’ll mention again Illegals) is astounding.

            Can it be said that millions of Americans don’t have medical insurance — Yes, that is true; but it cannot be said that if you need assistance you cannot currently get it. It may be the basic bones, and you may have to jump through hoops (such as spending and entire day at a clinic) but you can get it.

            Regards,
            RS

    • BEE

      Some thing to keep in mind when evaluating the uninsured in the US.

      Per the insurance industry there was an estimated 40 million people without health insurance in the US late last fall. This was up from 25 to 30 million before the presidential campaign started and it has now been estimated at 50 million by thos in Dem part, who just so happen to want nationalized health insurance.

      Anyway, per the insurance industry late last fall the number of uninsured Americans who needed and wanted health insurance was around 10 million. Lets assume there has been an increase of 10 million due to the economy then we get 20 million.

      Not 40 million and not 50 million. This is less than 10% of our total population.

      At a time when anywhere from 10% to 15% of us are unemployed. Doesn’t exactly sound like a national crisis does it?

      Also notice the discussion always seems to migrate to insurance. I have maintained since the Clinton Admin that when this came back we would see an attempt to make health insurance mandatory, just like car insurance. This would increase the insurance pool, theoretically reducing costs. But it won’t really because the companies are raising rates on the high risk subpopulation, we baby boomers.

      The real issue no one wants to discuss is why are the medical costs climbing at astronomical rates. I think US has some doctor friends working on an article to address this. I for one am looking forward to their views.

      Hope all is well with you today.
      JAC

      • I’ve heard that argument before about the Insurance Rates going down if everybody had to have it. I heard it when they passed the Law in GA that everyone was required to have Car Insurance. After it passed the insurance rates instantly skyrocketed.

        If someone has a product, and the Government passes a Law that everyone in the Nation is required to buy it; why would they DROP the prices? THEY WON’T! THEY’LL RAISE THEM! AND THANKS TO OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE’LL HAVE TO BUY IT ANYWAY!!!

  15. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    On the health-care subject (which seems more popular than the original topic at-hand today :)) I would have to say that one of the big roots of the problem is that in my opinion, the doctors and the drug companies have discovered that it is FAR more profitable to TREAT disease than it is to CURE disease. This is one of the main reasons that I rarely go to the doctor anymore.

    I am 40, and I am in good health (in spite of the fact that I am an evil smoker), and I really do not wish to be put on drugs that I do not need for conditions that I may or may not have, many of which are most likely not life-threatening anyway.

    My mother is a prime example of this. She is 71, and has a family history of all of her closest relatives living to be close to 100 years old. She is in good health other than some osteo-arthritis. In spite of her generally good health and family history of incredible longevity, her doctors have her on 6 or so medications that she must take 2-4 times per day EACH.

    So, lets say that without the majority of these medications, she would live to be 95, and with these medications she will live to be 96 or 97. I certainly do not wish premature death on anyone (least of all my own mom!), but I have to ask if her spending thousands of dollars per year on these medicines is really worth it! There is no proof that any of the medications she is taking (beyond the ones for arthritis pain) are increasing the quality of her life or the duration of it, which means that they are just a sink-hole of money for the medical industry.

    This is why I believe you will never see a CURE for any significant forms of cancer. I believe that there are probably cancer cures out there already, but I suspect that they are very inexpensive and natural in origin, and therefore the doctors and drug companies would not be able to make any money off of them, especially since patients would probably not require repeated doseages of them throughout the remainder of their lives (since they would be cured).

    Once the government gets even more control of this system, there will be even less incentive to cure anything at all. It will all be about keeping control, and what better way to keep control than to assure that everyone is required to have insurance and is also required to USE it. Just wait… people like me that avoid going to the doctor are going to be fined if we don’t at least have an anual physical so they can decide what useless medications we are required to take. If I were a betting man, I would wager a lot that that regulation is coming!

    Just my health-care conspiracy theory for the day 🙂

    • Bee in my Bonnet says:

      Not just a theory, PeterB, but fact. I saw a report that most R&D money went into chronic disease management, such as diabetes and cancer, where only 5% of R&D went into cures. This from a pharmaceutical company.

    • Your not far from the truth at all Peter. My mom was in a nursing home the last few years she was alive. Twice she went in the hospital because she quit eating, drinking and slept all the time and she got very ill. I got a list of the meds they were giving her in the home and one of the pills they were giving her (to help her upset stomach) had the main side affects of loss of appetite and lethargy. Mom was sleeping all the time and not drinking and dehydrated herself!

    • esomhillgazette says:

      Peter, one day about 10 or so years ago I was in a Doctor’s office. Since I had to wait a couple of hours because I was a Squeeze-In, I started to read a Medical Journal that was sitting in the Magazine rack.

      In the Journal, there was an article on a gene therapy drug for Cancer. This drug was decribed glowingly as already being in Human trials and working on ALL types of Cancer, from Brain to Breast Cancer.

      It was said in this article that a girl with a terminal Brain tumor had, in 6 months, disappeared. There were several other examples also, but that one stuck in my mind because the tumor was the size of a softball. These drugs (they were several) were attacking the Cancer at the gene level. They were tailored to destroy ONLY the Cancer cells while leaving the healthy cells alone.

      It further said that these miracle drugs would be on the market within 10 to 15 years. Remember, this was 10 years ago. They were very expensive at the time; about 25K per doseage. But they said that one day, you would simply have to go to your family doctor and he would write you a prescription. To CURE CANCER!

      I have heard not one single word about this since. Why? Because I believe like you do. They don’t want to cure it. They want to treat it. So you have to keep coming back for more. It’s all about the Benjamins!

  16. esomhillgazette says:

    While I’m sure that this will get me laughed at, I’m going to type it here anyway. Let’s call this a Conspiracy Theory but not a serious one.

    Does it seem funny to anyone else that: As not only the Democrats, but the LIBERAL Democrats have total control of our Government right now, is it weird that, the Republican Party is steadily imploding?

    I wonder if this is just a coincidence or something more. How did Steele get the RNC chairmanship to begin with? Are the Republicans trying to ass kiss their way back by picking a Black man? Not that I am against him for his color but that seems kind of obvious that they did. And if that’s the case then shame on them.

    There is nothing wrong with a black man (or woman) being the RNC Chairman, but there is a big problem with making him the “token” black man in the Party. My evidence for this stance is the fact of so many powers being taken from him since he has taken over. One example is taking away his power of the RNC pocketbook. If the man is the Chairman, you don’t start taking away his power to run the organization he chairs. And you unite behind him! When he criticizes Rush Limbaugh, right or wrong, back him! Who is Rush anyway but a talking head on the radio.

    And what about the constant infighting and bickering among the Party members? Somebody needs to remember that the Democrats, even Hillary and Edwards, immediately jumped behind Obama once he was the Candidate of choice. All of them, Conservative (I know, oxymoron) to Liberal Democrats, are backing him now.

    Meanwhile the Republicans backbit their own candidate McCain and most especially Palin. If she wasn’t qualified, then why pick her? And why start blaming her for their loss before the election even took place? And don’t even get me started on the way she was treated AFTER the election! That was the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen and pissed me off permanently with them.

    Since the election, the Republicans have fought and bickered amongst each other and blamed everything but themselves for their rapid demise. Is this some kind of inside plot? Is this a plan to rid the Nation of the Republican “disease”? Or is it just that the Republicans are at the place the Democrats were at 4 or 5 years ago?

    Whatever it is, all I can say is they better start hearing that loud popping sound as their heads come out of their collective asses. Because if they don’t come together and unite soon, it’s going to be too late for them. Then we will be a ONE Party Nation. Soon after we will be a PURE Socialist Nation. Don’t that just sound rosy?

    • Richmond Spitfire says:

      Hi Esom,

      I’m not laughing at all and I’ve wondered the exact same thing! Everything you’ve said here, I’ve wondered at and have felt the same way (even over how Sarah P was treated and degraded).

      Thank you for voicing what I’ve been feeling.

      Regards,
      RS

      • Alan F. says:

        We spoke of that in some length here. As I have seen in attempts at poking holes in its timeline or data by many media outlets interviewing John Ziegler, its negative critics have only managed to validate both Media Malpractice’s accuracy and their own inability to defend what they themselves had said during the election.

    • Esom,
      Interesting thoughts, I remember wondering about the relationship Palin had with her “handlers”. Who were these faceless, CLUELESS people. The same ones that appointed Steel? They read their Ouija boards and poof, there he is.

      Anyone else remember Huckabee getting singled out with a religious question
      during one of the debates? He answered something like, “what an outrageous question”, now I will answer it, but first let me say——— I tried to find it but could not figure a question that did not end in reading every debate transcript.

      My point, doesn’t Obama and Hillary claim to be religious? Why are they never asked about(snicker, snicker)would they govern from christian principles, etc.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Very interesting point LoI…sounds like Gov. Huckabee was Ms. Americanized!

      • esomhillgazette says:

        I wish Palin had been the Pres candidate instead of the VP. Maybe by 2012 she will have learned enough to be a good candidate. But not how to be a liar and a charlatan like a good Politician would be.

        One thing about ol’ Huckabee. He didn’t back down from their religious questions, even though that probably cost him a lot of votes.

        I wish just once, we would have a candidate who told the truth and meant what they say. But as my Uncle told me. “Dookey in one hand and wish in the other and see which one gets full the fastest!” 🙂

    • I don’t think the country will become a one-party nation. I’m almost sure the Republican party will fade away though. The Independants, Libertarians, Constitution and other third parties are growing faster than either the Democrat or Republican Parties. Eventually (probably really suddenly) the third parties will coalesce into one and there will be a new Conservative party. Or possibly parties will disappear and everyone will be independant, but I don’t think so . . . people tend to band together to have more power and influence.

      • Alan F. says:

        I can tell you from experience here, a 3 party system and the type of government if forms is all about compromise.

      • According to Beck Democrats now account for 36%, Independents 35.6% & Republicans 24%. Dem/Rep both loosing to independent gains.
        Work for me, go to a no party system, unless our VLDG takes hold.

        • Explain VLDG please. I’ve seen other references to it here. Is it an inside joke?

          • Michelle

            See my other post to LOI.

            This came about in proposed scale of govt that put Total Govt or A lot of Govt on the left and No Govt with Black Flag on the right. USW was right of center with Little Govt. I think it was LOI that asked if anyone wanted the spot between Black Flage and USW. I volunteered with Very Damn Little Govt, hence VDLG.

            You will find it mentioned as VDLG and VLDG but you get the idea. Something very close to what the founders had in mind with the holes plugged.

            You mentioned your religion so I thought I would ask if you live in Utah or Idaho?

            JAC

        • LOI

          I thought it was VDLG?? We got two letters reversed somewhere. Didn’t US say he was dyslexic? Lets blame it on him.

          Very Damn Little Government Rocks!!!

          By the way. In a three party system the winner only needs about 40% of the vote. See Margaret Thatcher.

          JAC

          • I can’t ever remember, think I’m dyslexic also, no math skills but high IQ.

            Isn’t Germany & Israel fumbling with 3 party system, with a lot of compromises? May be a good thing, talk a lot but do very little.

          • Looked it up, April 13, #17 March Towards Socialism #1, was an interesting discussion.

            • I forget. Who is supposed to be our Presidential Candidate for 2012? 😛

              • We had USW if I recall, but that was subject to him not screwing up in the mean time.

                Perhaps we should hold off for now as we don’t want to play our hand to soon.

                LOL
                JAC

              • We wouldn’t want to give the other side time to come up with photos of USW in a bikini, or even worse, topless.

                We’ll also have to destroy any pictures of hime in a Bruins shirt or acting up at a hockey game. It just won’t sell with the soccer mom’s or those of us in the west who think hockey is something you do to get rid of that crap stuck in the back of your throat.

                Man am I feeling good tonight.
                JAC

              • I’m sitting here pondering

                “pictures of hime in a”

                just what a hime might look like!!!

          • USWeapon says:

            Not in our three party system JAC. According to the constitution, the winner must get a majority vote, 51% of the electoral college. It gets really hairy after that… I will skip to the end. It ends with Nancy Pelosi as President. How scary is that?

            You can blame me for the dyslexic spelling, it only makes sense. But I am not the only dyslexic one here!

            • I was not talking about the Presidency. After all that position is not supposed to have any real power, just the ability to mesmerize the masses.

              I’m talking Congress and the state legislatures. If we have 35 to 40% of the seats how hard do you think it will be to get 16 to 11% of the R’s or D’s to switch on any given issue?

              And if they try to freeze us out, then we get the next best thing……..GRIDLOCK.

              Now that is a true holding action…..hint…..hint…

              Apparently the dyslexic thing is quite prevalent on this site. Might say something about the quality of the audience drawn here. Although I must admit to feeling like I’ve been left out. All I suffer from is the occasional bout of old timers.

              This of course does not mean I don’t suffer from some malady or phscological disorder, only that I will absolutely not admit to it. My spousal unit leader tried to get me and my friends, many moons ago, to admit alcohol was our social crutch. We emphatically explained to her that the first criteria of being an alchoholic was to admit we were, and since we wouldn’t, we weren’t. Needless to say my first attempt at philosophy made sense to me but didn’t go over well with spousal unit leader.

              Eventually the kids came along, and we all got older, so our evil ways were trimmed back to basically gone. But I still have not and will not confess.

              Now I hope I have you at least chuckling as you are probably feeling father time weighing down upon your soal, being one day older and deeper in debt.

              OTFLMAO
              JAC

              • “some malady or phscological disorder,”

                Hmmmmmm!
                So would that be pronounced, “phiscological” or “pisscological”. That makes one more affliction I may have, but not the one I was trying to claim. That would be phsycological, as by now I have proven my case on this point.

                Thank you, thank you very very much.
                JAC

              • Just got in and catching up on the posts; JAC, I might be in agreement with your spousal unit leader…………

                What the hay are you drinking tonight? LOL

              • Kathy

                Thanks for the concern.

                No more than the usual one
                glass of red wine w/dinner.

                Great weekend and a good
                Monday had me feeling…
                shall we say a little
                impish!

                LOL
                JAC

  17. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    I think there is a pretty strong contingent in the Republican Party (the minority with the big wallets) that wants the party to be “moderate” or even left of center and wants to rid itself of the conservatives and especially the so-called religious right-wing.

    Then I think there is a pretty strong coningent (numerically) of strong fiscal conservatives that do not necessarily back the religious right-wing when it comes to social issues.

    Finally, you have the religious right-wing that seems to suddenly want less fiscal conservatism (now aligning themselves with environmental causes for example) which still wanting strict social conservatism.

    In reality, the Democrat party is at least as fragmented with all of its myriad constituencies and bizarre coalitions, but they are in power so they appear to be united, while the Republicans are out of power and are having something of a power-struggle, which is of course amplified by the MSM as a way of showing that the Republican Party is dead and should be buried.

    What will actually happen in the near future with the party will be interesting to watch.

  18. Just a quick update on the swine flu issue. It is subsiding, and expected to be gone as summer approaches. The CDC is concerned it could mutate and return this fall (as did the Spanish flu of 1918) with a vengence. The earliest a vaccine or any kind of cure that might be available will be in late December. Sorry for being off topic!

  19. It is human nature to fear things unknown. There will always be bigotry as long as some people are different. But I do believe there is less of bigotry than there was formerly, at least in the west, and more especially in America. Americans are peculiarly situated for becoming more understanding and accepting. America has traditionally welcomed all regardless of race, religion, group, or economic standing. We have declared equality and proection under the law for all. Though we have not always achieved this goal, we have made more headway than any ohter people. I’m actually with USW in saying that average American’s are not nearly so bigoted as people of the past–not that we’re over it completely.

    To tell the truth it’s not my family and friends I hear talking about race or religion or judging another–it’s usually the media. When they stop reporting things like “she was the first African-American woman to . . .” or “He was elected in spite of cercerns about his Jewish religion . . .” and stuff like that then we’ll know we are over racism and bigotry.

    By the way, I’m Mormon, so if you have any questions, fire away!

    • esomhillgazette says:

      I agree with that Michelle. If the Media would quit sensationalizing stuff, a lot of things would probably fade out quicker. Why it has to be a big deal that someone was the first ____?____ to be elected instead of just giving their qualities for office is beyond me.

      Now I can see a little of why Obama was praised for being the first Black President (even though he’s only half) because it was the OFFICE of President. But let’s talk about things like the Superbowl between The Colts and the Bears. Yes, both coaches were Black men. And while that was a great accomplishment, that was all we heard about. Not the fact that Peyton Manning had thrown a record 49 TD’s. Not that the Bears had a Fantastic Defense which had propelled them into the game. You would have thought from the Media coverage, that only the two coaches were going to be in the game.

      Hell, this even irritated the two coaches themselves! Both men wanted their respective teams to be remembered for how thay had gotten to that point and how they had fought to earn their Superbowl Berths. Coach Dungy kept on saying when asked that the focus needed to stay on his team and the outstanding job they had done that season. The Bears coach said the same. But the Media kept on hammering that point home regardless.

      Now, I’m not saying that it is not a great accomplishment for someone from a different race besides white to win office or position. What I am saying is that the accomplishment is sometimes resented because the only fact that is important to the Media is the fact of their race.

      Let me say finally that Tony Dungy is one of the finest men and best coaches in the NFL, regardless of his color. Ti me it is sad that he will be known best as the first BLACK coach to win a Superbowl, instead of his legacy of being one of the great COACHES in the NFL.

      • On behalf of myself and GA let me just say……DEAR GOD, Let Tony D. find his way to Seattle and suffer a change of heart.

        Tony D.did you know that 100% of retired people die!!!

        Absolute Fact.

        So, get your bum to Seattle and tell them your looking for a job.

        Pleaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzze!

        You and me G.A.
        JAC

    • Barberian says:

      Here Here Michelle,

      I “work” in primarily muslim countries, some rather orthdox and some not so much. I also spend considerable time in asia, primarily China. I DO NOT spend this time in tourist infested cities but in the “back country” and can tell you, we as Americans are the most “understanding” people on earth. The considerable time I have spent in southern europe opened my eyes to a level of bigotry and racism that completely caught me “off guard” as we are constantly told that “white Americans” are the most racist. This is not even close to being truthful.

      They do not even think twice about commenting in a derrogatory racial manner when refering to a sports figure or actor/actress.

      We as a people are isolated from the rest of the world and therefore succeptable to any misconception that the media would protray us as “in the eyes of the rest of the world”.

      “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
      — Samuel Adams

      • You know B. that quote is probably my favorite, outside just about anything with Jeffeson’s name on it.

        Perhaps that should be the moto of the VDLG party? Might have to shorten for our modern society. Not sure they could maintain focus long enough to get the whole idea. That is with their Mainstream Media induced attention span.

        My best to you this evening
        JAC

      • Nice post. Just shows how the MSM are so messed up. Good luck in the work you do, what you learn and pass on is greatly appreciated. A unique look at the peaceful parts of other countries is always welcome to me.

        PEACE!

        G!

  20. I hope all is going well with everyone. I hope all the mother of the forums had a great Mother’s Day…happy belated as well. Now a blast from the past….
    I have been stuck on the Domestic Extremist Lexicon dictionary of the great DHS as they debunk them and say they are not in affect but now I think I have put most of the pieces together. I have 2 of the 3 documents that DHS have distributed to federal officals, officers…you know those that supposedly “protect and serve”. The 2 of the 3 documents that I have discussed and provided the links to are: 1)Right-wing Extremist,http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5410658/DHS-Report-on-Right-Wing-Extremism the 2)The Domestic Extremism Lexicon Reference Aid http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5806361/Domestic-Extremism-Lexicon. Now, I have been doing research on “thought crimes” and all through my research HR 1955 Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act and S. 1959 came up so I decided to do further research. I would like for you to read this bill that was passed by the house and sent to the Committe of Homeland Security an institute affliated with Department of Homeland Security back in 2007. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

    Last actions of this bill Oct 24, 2007: Received in the Senate and Read twice and referred to the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs and then we never heard about this bill again.

    How many times did you see ideology in this bill. An ideology is a set of aims and ideas, especially in politics. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things, as in common sense and several philosophical tendencies, or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society. The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society, and adherence to a set of ideals where conformity already exists, through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought (as opposed to mere ideation) applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.

    Reading this I have come to the conclusion that
    1)Sounds like an Orwellian society coming soon
    2)I believe that this law has passed and that is why these 2 documents from DHS has surfaced.
    3)These documents were not written to target non-islamic terrorist but the good ol’ American citizens
    4)An agenda of the elite that will lock the minds and freedoms for generations to come until God comes back and rid the earth of its satanic characteristics and beings
    5)That all American citizens are being labeled for a reason and its not just for fun…but I know the FEMA concentration camps or a bit much to swallow yet alone believe.

    This document might be of interest as well…I found it, 3 of 3 articles released by DHS.
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5786793/Violent-Islamist-Extremism-the-Internet-and-the-Homegrown-Terrorist

    What are your thoughts on this as this has my mind venturing in several different directions?

  21. Just want to add something. I asked a question of Ray about his post #7, and haven’t received any input as of yet. Thats all fine, but I will ask this again of Ray.

    Just a fair warning!

    G!

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Fair warning of what? Sorry G – had to put in windshield time plus tae kwon do this evening.

      So….you said:

      “Ray, I don’t belong to a political party. With that said, I don’t believe for a minute that political parties are benefiting us at all. If anything, strong political parties, like we have now, are keeping very intelligent people from running for public office. Those of us who are independent are basically left out of the political system because the “parties” are highly financed.

      In my hometown, the democrats have a huge hold on the politics. Here’s where I find that a problem, this area has been depressed since the steel mills closed in the 70’s, and now 30+ years later, it has only gotten worse. Yet, the f#^&ing morons keep voting for the same political party (democrats). So, in a sense, they vote for things to get worse. This year, the mayor is up for reelection, and will most likely win, because A- he is a democrat, B- voters here are f#^*^ng idiots, C- noone has the financial backing to campaign to the level needed to win.”

      So – my views on the situation provided? Well – sorry to say but if it sucks that bad and there is zero hope of change then I’d move. I have lived before in tightly held GOP areas – did it suck? Well, you’re fundamentally against political parties for some well founded reasons. I happen to disagree because I think you need some modicum of organization and representation less you devolve into too many cooks in the kitchen. There is a reason not every stockholder of GM shows up to the shareholder meetings – nothing would ever get done and it would be complete chaos. There is a reason not every parent in the school district sits on the school board – nothing would ever get done.

      I think the political parties are a necessary part of our government – getting rid of them is not the answer to giving indies a voice. Indies are usually indie (imho) because they like to run against the grain and they wanna be different, or they are single issue folks who’ll never marshal sufficient support to get MSM coverage unless they are batshit enough or the news night is slow (Pat Paulson anyone?). Change if effect from within from without from top down and bottom up. I do think we need more than a two party system, it just isn’t clear if it rises from the far left, the far right or on a single hot button issue that everyone gets pissed off about and says F%#& it with the two in power now. I think in any event you still need a face/person people can resonate and associate with – and folks, that ain’t Boss Limbaugh.

  22. Amazed1 says:

    Ok where has BF been lately?

  23. Ray Hawkins says:

    Effective torture? What effective torture? Someone needs to cough up the mysterious Cheney “torture worked” memos or this becomes a Nathan Jessup saga.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/ig-report-waterboarding-w_n_201733.html

  24. This is so funny. Speaking of Mormons, read this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519777,00.html

    Can you imagine? I’m sure Mormons and Catholics did vote for Prop 8, but why does that make their vote not count somehow? Why are religious people always portrayed as being mindless drones, just following their church? I still have not figured out why certain belief systems are more valid than others in the public square.

    I especially love Sharon Osbourne’s quote: “Blame Bush, blame everything on Bush.” That is killer. I haven’t been so amused by a news report in a long time.

    You know, that is what the stink over Mitt Romney was about, marginalizing religious people. They haven’t done it to Christians in general in terms of politicians. Politicians still have to claim they are Christian to get elected, but it’s coming soon.

  25. Truthseeker says:

    Talking about Bigots in Europe, in Germany they call and label rap/hip-hop as “Black Music”. I go into the local german Media Markt and that is how rap/hip-hop music is labeled!

    • Truthseeker says:

      I also meant to add that in clubs when they play rap/hip-hop on certain nights they call it “Black Sounds”.

      • Barberian says:

        Truthseeker, just take a look at the embers of the French government are of african dissent. And they call us racist? In my travels since the election, the one common statement that I get is ” I can’t believe you people actually elected a “Black Man”, that is crazy. I tell them that I do not care what the color of the man/woman is, but principles they have that guide them. They can’t seem to get past the color issue. American racism indeed!

        • Barberian says:

          sorry, that’s members not embers. Coffe has not gotten to the fingers yet.

  26. So this column is about Steele/GOP, Romney, Racism, Healthcare, my eyes tear before I can read them all! LOL

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