Operating With No Net

Greetings to all from the Pacific Ocean. As I write this I am in the middle of the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Alaska. I decided I had to go up and have a talk with Sarah about this whole “resigning” business. This has left me with very few options for writing unfortunately. I was finally able to get some semblance of news this afternoon and included in it was a clip from an interview with the Vice President on the new State Broadcasting Channel (ABC). I was just listening waiting for the obligatory “We need a Second Bailout” when he was discussing the economy. Instead he dropped a line that, in my opinion, epitomizes today’s political moves and the idiots that make them.

The down side to being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is a dramatic decrease in the ability to access the Internet. At 75 cents a minute for Internet access, the cruise industry is almost as criminal as the federal government. At least I am given the choice on whether I choose to get robbed for the internet. However, I choose not to get robbed, at least not this evening. And that means that I do not have the ability to do any research, or even read the news for that matter. I have time to jump in and paste the article into the site and publish it. So tonight’s article is nothing more than an opinion piece.

So what did Biden say that drew my attention in the interview? He made the admission that the administration far underestimated the financial crisis when they were working on the solution a couple of months ago. Really? You “underestimated” the financial situation? Because what I remember, Joe, is that you and the administration spent a lot of time telling us that we were facing possibly the worst financial crisis in history. So now you are telling us that your claim of the coming calamity of the worst financial crisis in history was an understatement? Well if you weren’t really understanding things, do you mind explaining to me why the frack you passed a trillion dollar spending bill that my

I think that it is time to start really talking about what is going on here. First of all, this needs to be recognized as an admission that this administration is, on one hand, helplessly lost in terms of where we need to go as a country. Second we need to be willing to see how willing they are to feed us a complete line of bullshit in order to get the American public to buy in to whatever “fix” Uncle Sam offers to the current “crisis” that only government can save us from.

We have talked about this before. It isn’t like I am telling you something that we are just learning. This administration is in over their head. They ran a great campaign. They sold a bill of goods to a gullible American public that is slowly starting to find all the things wrong with the product they bought on good faith. And they are finding that the manufacturer’s warranty was apparently a 75 day policy that ran from November 4th through January 20th. Absolutely no returns after the 21st of January. I claimed during the campaign that Obama was severely lacking in experience and not ready yet to be the President. No one wanted to listen to me. He is offering us hope and change I was told. He will surround himself with experience and intelligence in order to help him make wise decisions.

And since that time we have watched the Obama administration make plenty of mistakes. I don’t want to be too picky. After all, every administration makes mistakes. Lord knows Bush did. But this administration has made us appear weak to the middle eastern and muslim countries by offering random apologies and kissing their ass in ways that no President should be doing. Then he signed into law the largest spending bill in American history. I won’t even bring into the conversation the day one signing of an order to close Gitmo with no idea what we would do with the prisoners there.

I won’t bring up the insulting report from the Department of Homeland Security. Or the floated idea to make veterans pay for health insurance to cover injuries they receive while in combat. Or the $24k “date” that the President took to NY City with Michelle during a time when people are losing their homes and businesses. Or the multitude of appointees to his cabinet that weren’t vetted well enough to know that they didn’t bother to pay their damn taxes. I could do this all day and offer plenty of simply stupid mistakes. The point is that they are making a whole lot of stupid mistakes… not what I would expect from the hope and change folks. And I know that many of these things are not “life-threatening” mistakes. A few are. But most aren’t. But this many of them so early? It’s like a group of smart ass 1st graders have been given the keys to the manufacturing plant.

But what is biting me more is that Biden mentioned that we don’t yet know whether we might need another economic stimulus bill, but we should not be ruling it out. They are already setting us up for another bullshit expansion of government labeled as saving us from a crisis. There is certainly no shortage of “crisis” these days. And the reason for that word being used is because it allows these criminals to claim that there is no time to review, no time to think about things, no time to waste at all.

But if Biden’s statement should tell us anything at all, it should tell us that we can not allow this Congress and this administration to continue to pass legislation because of a “crisis” that no one seems to really be understanding. They are fully admitting that they passed a trillion dollar spending bill to save us when they didn’t really understand the economic situation that they were facing. And after a statement like that, is anyone really feeling like we should be trusting this group of bozo’s to pass potentially devastating programs like cap and trade and nationalized health care?

Do they understand either of those “crisis” situations any better than they understood the economy when they passed the biggest spending bill in history?

Something tells me no.

But the bigger question for me right now is do they understand it just fine. Their goal is to simply make sure that we don’t understand any of these situations well enough to think about solutions. Because if Americans begin to get a clue, they will see right through these bills that are meant to save us at all…..



  1. Well I hope your trip goes well. I have always been to Alaska, amazing place to see.

    Yes when I saw that statement that Biden said, I just closed my eyes. So if you didnt know that we are in a worst finicial situation, why are you passing bills that you dont know one way or another if they were going to work. Are you kidding me. I knew that they were going to win this election- I was hoping that more senior people would help them and us keep our heads above water. But instead they hired people with just about as much experience as they all have. None. Truly scary.

  2. PeterB in Indianapolis says:


    The courts just authorized the sale of GM to a “new company” which is jointly owned by the US and Canadian Governments. We will see how THAT goes over the next several years. I know an aweful lot of people who have at least anecdotally said they are never buying a GM or Chrysler product again, so the future is not looking bright for either of these “companies”.

    I am generally not a huge conspiracy theorist, but it really seems to me that this administration is doing all it can to destroy what is left of the manufacturing base in this country, cause ridiculously high unemployment, and wreck what is left of the economy. I shudder to think what the motivation is for CAUSING the second Great Depression, but I know it isn’t going to be good….

    • Bee in my Bonnet says:

      I’m not much into conspiracy theories but I just watched a piece called The Obama Deception. Google it. It’s heavy on shadow governments and secret meetings that Obama allegedly attended and New World Orders but it could explain what could be the motive for CAUSING the second Great Depression but careful, it sounds like a Robert Ludlum novel. Take it for what it’s worth.

      • Bee, I think a lot of people are starting to consider some of these theories more seriously as nothing coming from this Adm. seems to be in the best interest of the US people. Everything is too quick, too expensive and we are already broke!

        We’ve spent a lot of time on this blog learning to look at things with logic and reason and it is really hard to find that with Washington these days.

  3. I suppose it is George Bush’s fault that this administration did not fully comprehend the economic situation…that might as well be his fault along with everything else. Anyone who took time to actually research Senator Obama, knew he lacked the experience and leadership skills to be the POTUS. While the ranting left villified Sarah Palin for lacking experience to be the Vice Pres, they turned a blind eye on the total lack of experience this gentleman had and has.

    This is going to be a bumpy ride, so all passengers fasten your seatbelts…I only hope that the 2010 elections will have the effect of balancing power so this guy cannot forever ruin this great country…

    • Mike M. Houston Texas says:

      Well Terry, you hit that nail on the head. I heard the new spin will be “what the previous administration left us…blah blah blah”. Give the haters some more BS to chew so they will be lining up to give us our next “stimulus”. They will already be behind it before we introduce it becuase “it was George’s fault”.

      As for your other thoughts USW I think the media and many other outlets have pushed the whole “guilt for slavery” thing so far that Obama got elected out of guilt. If we just put this black man in the white house maybe we can all be forgiven.

      However, I also believe that had he not won I would not be able to read the net or watch any news. We would have been pummeled to death with “America’s racism”, The NAACP would have been on a constant rampage telling how bad we are, and the media outlets would have done a billion feel good stories on black successes in America.

      Please understand I am not racist and I never have been. I did not own slaves. I have black friends, Asian friends, Hispanic friends, and friends from European nations. All men are created equal. I just see things for what they are.

    • Terry I agree with parts of what you are saying. It is terrifying to think that one party controls every branch of the government, regardless of your political affiliation. However, and I don’t think we can place the blame on Bush either BLAME goes nowhere, before we start to play another blame game and point all of our fingers at Obama perhaps we should wait and see how his policies work. Although not everyone agrees with them, which is great, placing blame is certainly no way to solve this problem. Recently I saw a commercial made by the republican party expressing their dissapproval of Obama’s Health care reform. Now, I would have been more inclined to believe what they were saying if the video actually proposed a solution. Instead, all it talked about was how the reform would fail with not even a hint of what the republicans want to do about it. So, perhaps the best solution to this debacle the republicans have gotten into is to stop blaming, pick their heads up, and put their minds into finding a solution. And Sarah Palin in my opinion completely lost the election for the republicans. I would’ve voted for McCain had he had ANYONE other than her.

      • USWeapon says:


        The thing that I would say about the Obama health care plan… The Republicans have offered some alternative ideas. But the bottom line is that there is not a health care crisis in the first place. Obama is offering to solve a problem that doesn’t exist at nearly the level he and his party are claiming it exists. When there is nothing to “solve” then it is quite OK of the Republicans to offer no better solution.

        And why exactly did Sarah Palin lose the election for McCain? That statement completely baffles me and I hear it constantly. Yet no one seems to be able to give me any answers that make sense.

  4. Amazed1 says:

    Bumpy ride!!!! We had better put on our seat belts, crash helmets, knee pads, life jackets and any thing else we can find…..we will be really really lucky if we do not complete crash!!!
    Did anyone note the news on Isreal? Looks like the ME could get rough to.

  5. Ray Hawkins says:

    Hmmmmmmm – on one hand we had one of the most secretive administrations our country has ever seen that, even with turd solidly smeared across their faces would deny ever eating a poop sandwich (or flatly deny cooking the books on Iraq) and on the other hand an administration that was handed a train wreck of a country, is working their asses off trying to fix it and has enough guts to stand up and say when they think something may be off and needs more re-tooling.

    I guess I should expect the constant snarkiness. Next posting on deck: “Can you believe Obama crumples and doesn’t fold!”

    • “an administration that was handed a train wreck of a country, is working their asses off trying to fix it ”

      You are a little off base. He was not handed a train wreck, he asked for it. Working their asses off? Working their asses off to socialize as much of our lives as they can and to create debt to the point of finincial collapse for this nation.

      Ray, during the election process, I truly wanted to understand the left’s position. I read quite a lot concerning Obama and Hillory Clinton. I read many left leaning opinions and beliefs…I wanted to understand how someone who believed almost 180 degrees from what I do (politically speaking) could feel that way and be as ardent in their defense as they are. I failed. I cannot fathom how liberals justify their beliefs. I suppose this old dog ran into a trick he could not learn.

      • Terry…Ray is from England, if I am not mistaken…..take it with a dose of salts.

        • Ray, if you are not from England….apologies are in order…for the second time today..not a good start…however, if you are from England…

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            No worries – I actually live outside Philadelphia. Ancestors were from England, Ireland, Iceland, France and Germany (with a healthy does of Ojibwa).

            • I remember that now….hell, who does not have relatives from England..we have Welsh and Scots?Irish on our side…sorry for the misunderstanding…I do have you confused with someone else on here. I am new here, please be patient and I will learn everyone. I will also apologize if I am wrong…..not bad for a full Colonel, eh?

            • So Ray it appear we are “cousins”.

              Chippewa/Cree here, although only a very small dose.

      • Terry,
        Just because you do not understand it, does that make it wrong? Do you understand and approve of the Bush administration’s policies and results?

        • Todd, I think that Terry was trying to say…we are all tired of the now worn out mantel of…He inherited this from Bush….this economic issue is not a product of the last 8 or even 16 years….this is our payback from the policies of the 70’s..it is now coming home to roost.

        • Amazed1 says:

          Todd….least we forget….it is not the president with the power……congress has the POWER……all of it! They are not Bush policies……they are not Obama policies…..the suffering we are doing are Democrate policies…..all of them. Under Bush and under Obama. Changing our President changed nothing…..they may have agendas……but the house and senate passes them.

          • Amazed1,
            Republicans had control of Congress from 1995 to 2007 (except for part of 2001-2 when the Democrats had a 51-49 control of the Senate). So how is all “the suffering we are doing are Democrate policies”? Are all the problems because the Democrats had control of Congress the last two years?

            • Alan F. says:

              So who was the 42nd president? You know the one in power from 1993 to 2001? Ron Jeremy???

              • Alan,
                Ron Jeremy? That’s the first time I’ve heard the reference!! :0

                Amazed1 said “congress has the POWER”. Just following up on that.

            • Amazed1 says:

              I was talking specifically the money problems of today….go look at the laws on banking…..the Fannie Mae and Mack…..the lack of control. Now I am gonna say that Republicans had a lack of control on Stock market…..but the banking law caused the problems we are having. Although there may have been other factors……they in themselves would not have caused the problems we have today…..the collapse of our Banking system was caused by the Democrates.

              • Amazed,
                I’m not saying the Democrats weren’t involved, or the collapse was caused by the Republicans. Both were involved in allowing it to happen, and both missed opportunities to stop it.

                But how was the collapse of our Banking system caused by the Democrats?

              • Amazed1 says:

                The regulation forced on the banking system to give home loans to people who had bad credit. Then not over seeing the sells and allowing over inflated home prices. It was a hugh snowball that once started down hill was to big to stop. But…..actually it does not matter who started what and who caused what….what matters now is how are we going to fix it. it really does not matter who did what and I should have kept my mouth shout….because it does not fix the problem and causes discontent. I am shamed.

            • Amazed1 says:

              Actually that is not quite true either/

              The 97th Congress (1981-1983) saw a relatively thin Republican majority in the Senate (53-46, so not enough for the 60% override) and a Democrat majority in the House.

              In the Senate, Republicans held the majority until 1987. From 1987-1995, the Democrats held control. Republicans regained the majority in 1995, which they held until 2001. The 107th Congress (2001-2003) saw a tie, with the Senate split 50-50. Republicans regaind a majority for the 108th and 109th Congresses (2003-2007), and then the Democrats had the majority in the 110th and will have it in the 111th.

              In the House, Democrats had the majority through both Reagan and Bush, Sr.’s Presidencies, until the Republicans gained the majority (in both the House and Senate) in 1995 (election of 1994). The Republicans ruled the Senate from 1995-2007. Now, the Democrats havea majority, and the recent election will see their majority through at least until January 2011.

            • Todd:

              The fact is the Repubs did not “control” congress for that period of time. In order to have full “control” you must have majority in both houses and you must have a “veto proof” or “filibuster proof” senate.

              Even after 94 and Gingrich’s Contract the Repubs were not able to get most of their agenda passed. But at least the House would bring the stuff up for debate and vote.

              Besides, I thought we had all agreed that the R’s and D’s were essentially the same animal and only differ in their time frame and dosage.

              So why all this D vs R discussion all of a sudden?


              • Alan F. says:

                Think of it in terms of rehab. The alcoholics are always on about “at least I’m not some dirty junkie” and the junkies are always on about “at least I’m not a drunken bum” in spite of them both being an equal drain on everyone around them. Oh yeah and its always always always someone else’s fault.

              • Now that was fuuunnnnnny.

                And so true.

                We got something here for another T shirt Alan.

                Need to boil down to something simple.

                Maybe two pictures of an Ass and Elephant with Junkie and Drunk on thier chest. Each point at the other with “It’s his fault”

              • JAC,
                The party with a majority controls the House and Senate. Veto or filibuster proof are just forms of more control.

                If you feel the R’s and D’s were essentially the same animal and only differ in their time frame and dosage, why do you defend the R’s and attack the D’s?

        • I never said it was wrong, I merely stated I failed to understand it.

        • And yes, I do believe that many of the Bush policies were wrong…Not nearly as many as you do (all of them probably), but several that had me yelling at the TV!

          • Terry…as long as you “yell” at the TV…don’t hit it…that gets expensive…and hurts your hand/foot/head…

            • No, I only yell…and scream, and curse…not so worried about the head/foot/hand, but how could I watch ESPN with a hole in the tube! I echo Ray in his thanks for your service!

          • And another thing Todd…I am still open to understanding left leaning ideologies. Open to understanding it does not mean agreeing with it, but I would truly like to understand the thinking behind many of them. Most who post here are Americans, and I believe that we are proud Americans and we can disagree and disagree with tact and hopefully understanding. That is the main reason I want to understand.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


      I would agree that the Obama administration is working its collective ass off, but I would disagree with you on what their ultimate goal is. It seems that they have taken every policy that they claimed was “bad” under the Bush administration, and instead of scrapping it, they have multiplied it by a factor of 10x.

      If you take something you claim was bad and make it bigger, all you did was make it “badder”.

      I am beginning to believe that their true ultimate goal is to directly cause the collapse of the Western Economic System and leave us no alternative but Socialism. Every policy that they have enacted so far or plan to attempt to enact as quickly as possible from this point forward all seem to point toward the goal of annihilating the last vestiges of capitalism….

      If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

    • Alan F. says:

      Ray, name call Bush all you want but Obama has shown himself to be munching away on that same sandwich you gave Bush but he’s attempting to smile through the chewing while you ignore what’s on his teeth. You’ve been shown NOTHING of where all those BILLIONS have been going outside of GM and Crysler and merely accepted that “over there somewhere” is all any of you can comprehend and are being spared from that knowledge “for our own good”. First you handed him a “they know best” blank cheque and now that they show you nothing but a pair of shoes for all that spending, you need to be asking for the receipt not merely writing another. Believe me when I tell you the rest of us are watching. http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15683&theme=6&size=A

      As for his being handed such a horrific problem, most other countries were in just as bad if not worse shape (%GDP towards debt) and are themselves showing signs of coming out of it. Some countries who should have been neigh destroyed because they are too closely tied to America were among the quickest to show a rebound. We here are an example of that and it has nothing to do with Obama’s stimulus and flies in the face of Democrats frantically working towards tariffs on all Canadian goods outside of our nonrenewable resources of course. Understand too a great chunk of corporate America’s “available” wealth which is being grabbed for is in all actuality ours. We’ve been on the shyte end of that stick for more than half a century, being in some cases paid less than a nickle on the dollar for American companies taking NONRENEWABLE RESOURCES and using the profits to prop up their American end. The Democrats have their way and we end up getting fleeced, look for Canada to nationalize its nonrenewable resources, International courts be damned! Remember Obama was the first to negate the validity of a large scale international contract with GM’s bond holders in an emergency. The door is open and anyone can now step through as it’s indeed a free world. We here in Canada will consider America taking from us without reciprocity just such an emergency.

      What scares us here, right now, is calling for a new “stimulus” with the same breathe used to bemoan banks not handing out loans to those who want but can’t afford such. How the hell this is not the front page on every media outlet on the globe is beyond me. Blame Bush all you want but tell today’s truth. Who is NOW trying to rebuild the framework which spawned the sub prime mortgage crisis with loans to those who can’t even afford the maintenance costs of a house within the softest job market seen in decades? I can’t even believe a Canadian has to be pointing this out to an American.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        I’d err with Colin Powell and suggest (as I have in the past) that there is too much on the plate at the same time. I will always disagree that what is occurring today is New Deal Part Deux – but I will concede that if in the grand scheme there is not enough “it worked” counter-balancing “this didn’t work” then we could be in for an even crazier ride.

        • So does this mean you accept the basic premise but just disagree with how fast it is implemented?

          I missed the connection to Powell. Could you explain a little more?


          • Powell has come out and said Obama is moving too fast on issues.

            • Alan F. says:

              Powell so far has said whatever is safe for him to say. In what I’ve seen and read of him, he risks nothing.

              As for the rifling through of things, to these eyes president Obama wants everything in place before the cost to yourselves arrives and before the rest of the world reacts to the current market value of THAT America. Next year is going to be a permanent game changer and BRIC is ready to take full advantage of America’s mistakes.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Endorsing Obama was the safe thing for him to do? Huh?

              • Alan F. says:

                With Colin Powell himself purporting to be a Republican centrist of African American decent? You betcha!

    • JayDickB says:

      Ray – We need to break this down a little, especially the part about the economy.

      Bush was handed a recession, then 9-11. He (and Congress) lowered taxes. Did it work? Seems to me it did.

      As Bush prepared to leave office, the housing bubble burst and many financial institutions went belly-up. I don’t think his solution, a big federal bailout, was the best, but I’d have to admit the jury is still out. Moreover, Obama has bought in to this solution big time. As for the mantra that the financial crisis was due to inadequate regulation, it seems to me that the problems are due more to foolish government intervention into markets, especially housing.

      I also believe excess government spending added enormously to the financial crisis. Bush shares fully in this mistake, but Obama has taken it to new levels. History has shown that lower government spending, regardless of deficits, does more to improve the economy than any other act. The converse is also true, more government spending, worse economy. That’s why the current spending binge won’t help the economy. Oh, it may get a little blip, but sustained growth (12 – 24 months) won’t happen.

      • Insightful….and right on target. Continue to fire for effect.


      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Good strong brakes help your car go faster Jay, not slower. Too often in our history, regulations have been subverted, overturned or outright ignored so a select few could reap heavily off all our backs. Do you like the fact that your gas prices are being screwed with again (like they were last year)? Don’t blame the Saudis, or OPEC – its our regulatory system that is designed to allow crooks like Goldman Sachs and Merril Lynch to gain secretive exemptions from the commodities trading board so they can draw more blood from the stone that is your wallet. And no – I do not solely blame the right on this – Chuckie Schumer helped “open” up the S&L business back in the Reagan years – we all know what happened there. The issue (or part of) with respect to housing was that there was no check/balance in place with respect to the significant change in risk modeling – risk models were created in mathematical theory that rested on a house of cards – if anything, intervention may have helped stave off the start of the crisis.

        • Ray:

          While part of the financial market problem was related to risk assessment this was not due to lack of regulation. And most importantly it was not the cause of the underlying problem.

          Govt intervention in the lending business was the prime cause. Reduction of loan standards and cheap money combined with political goals of expanded housing are the prime culprit here. If we do not recognize this and continue to think it was just “lack of regulation or enforcement” we are doomed to continue repeating this disaster.

          Could you please explain what “secretive exemptions from the commodity trading board” you are referring to?


          • Ray Hawkins says:

            The exemptions where first ID’d by 60 Minutes a year ago. Matt Taibbi did a piece recently in RS that addressed this as well. The exemptions essentially allow the big banks to circumvent established protections for the commodities trading markets so they can hike up the speculative pricing of things like oil. The jump in gas prices last year had little to do with actual supply & demand of the product.

            Tighter safeguards over the risk models would have helped mitigate or stop bad policy decisions (in theory at least – we saw what Bush II did w/ regards to torture).

            • Can’t reply without taking a shot at Bush…get over it, he is not the POTUS any longer.

            • I respectfully disagree with your conclusion regarding risk and policy. The bad policy decisions that created this mess were made first, long before the derivative market even existed.

              Risk assessments had to deal with valuation of derivatives and how those affected balance sheets, not the underlying bad debt or rush to ARMS and other stupid credit mechanisms.

              Take away the first step and the rest never occur. And even if the banks and fed could have assessed the risk better it would not have prevented the Busted Bubble that brought the whole thing down.

              Proper valuation might have reduced the expansion of the impact across the globe and multiple investment banks. We would still would of had significant failure and the current tight credit market. We would still be in a deep recession.

              And since we know the risk assessments were bad but the Dem controlled congress is still pushing for low cost/high risk loans to be covered by FMae and FMac, how am I to believe better risk assessement would prevent stupid policy. I guess you did say it was theoretical.

              Hope all is well with the family.

    • Everyone;

      This regime, and to a great degree many regimes prior, are not incompetent or inept, they are maniacal. Again it is a power grab. The elite have been manipulating and managing systems, people, the media and the courts for several years to obtain a governmental lock; which they accomplished in the last elections.

      Biden is the VP because he earned it, Berry is the image, Hilary kicked enough ass and collected enough IOU’s to be appointed, and the rest of the seated anarchists are plotting and planning out the next 2 years of plunder.

      If we stop looking at these people as incompetent morons too stupid to make it in the real world, and start looking at them as intelligent calculated thieves, we garner a better understanding of the big picture.

      As I have said before it is all a power grab driven by a plan to control what they believe they have been elected to do. Change the country as they see it should be;

      I know this sounds like a conspirisy theory, but looking at our current circumstance in this light changes the whole paradigm, and therefore our actions.

      Let’s face it inept people do not have the intelligence to pull this off. Stupid fails, period. Well thought out plans with contingencies built in for the expected and planned for bumps is the only way to turn a nation of this magnitude.

      They want to change the country to work for them, not us.

      It is going to be a long and bumpy road sure to break some axles and flatten some tires unless the people wake up, join hands and peasefully demand the return of liberty.

      • You are correct. These are intelligent calculating folks and it is power they seek. It seems as though they are stupid because the actions they take look ludicrous with all of the borrowing and spending…all the while we are mounting debt that will cripple the economy. Is all part of a grand scheme? I don’t know the answer to that, but it sure is starting to look like one.

      • yellowrose says:

        Last year, I ran across an article written by Diane Alden (2003), “Saul Alinsky and DNC Corruption.”

        I agree that we are not dealing with incompetence.

  6. Ray Hawkins says:

    Would be interested in how your conversation with Ms. Palin goes – I hear she is fishing at the moment – for a clue. Can only offer that I think its great the conservative movement has a QUITTER as one of their standard bearers. I suppose though that the Pat Buchannan’s of the country, knowing they may now get heavy doses of the deserter, have their Sarah Spank Socks at the ready. Way to go Sarah, the ultimate conservative ‘whore’ – you’ve managed to screw your State, screw your employees and screw your party, all at the same time.

    Palin had the opportunity to evolve into something meaningful and viable for her party in 2012 – and she screwed it up.

    • You certainly have a burr under your saddle today. On the Palin bashing bandwagon along with everyone else this morning Ray? I certainly would think that all the liberals have given a group sigh of relief with this resignation…lord knows you guys are obviously scared of what this great woman represents…individual liberty, and smaller govermnment…the total opposite of what the liberals believe…

      • Terry…the far left and the media have set a new standard…..it appears that the families of all politicians are now open and free game. Unfortunate, but it seems that way. So, children, grand children, aunts, uncles….pull the blinders off now that the first shot has been fired…unless Ray wishes to lay claim that the conservative movement fired first…which I believe he will.

        If an individual decides to run….free shots. Family, in the past, has been left out. So..I wonder what will happen if the Presidential Family now comes under fire….ALL of them including the children. Wonder what will be said then….

        Nothing will be said…they will quietly be put out of “business”. And business, not in the economic sense.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          So when Sarah parades her family out to substantiate her platforms and positions (“see, I knew my baby would have complications and did not abort him” ) it is okay – when anyone dare question how strong her family values are when her daughter’s boyfriend is shacking up under her roof and nose all of sudden it is ‘off limits’? What’s with the double standard? Families have long been game to some extent – you judge how fair it is/was and who shot first. Billy Carter? Roger Clinton?

          • No judging, Ray…..it is a sad state of affairs that the children get attacked…one does not say…if she pulls out her child and makes a statement, then that is a target and then say, because the opposition did not pull out a child that it is not a target…is hypocrisy at best…there are no prisoners in politics…however, I do remember the politics of old….Billy Beer and Carter’s brother being pot shot at….Reagan’s children and Nancy being pot shot at….Lyndon Johnson and his family….it goes way back and it is very sad….that our politics boils down to dismembering a person’s family…however, that is the way of the world, now.

            Many times I went into battle with chivalry on my mind…to only find out that no one else cares what chivalry is or means….

            Thank you for your response, however…it was my pleasure to serve…and still consult.


            • Amazed1 says:

              It is a shame people have never learned to attack a deed or circumstance without attacking a person. It is that position that makes politics so hateful…hate the sin, love the sinner needs to be practiced.

          • Ray:

            I find your comments regarding Ms. Palin this morning nothing more than a repeat of Left wing talking points that have been floating on the air waves since the Rep. convention last year and more recently since Friday.

            Cheap rhetoric without any rational base. Fear and loathing. Just a couple of thoughts to express the depth of this kind of analysis.

            Lets take the family issue. Every politician for the past 30 or more years brings their family on stage at the big nomination event and sometimes during campaign events. It is that simple. So why did the Left have apoplexy over the fact?

            Given your evaluation criteria Ms. Palin could not win regardless of her actions. You see the only alternative is to NOT put the family on stage. Gee whiz, I wonder what the media and Left wing commentary would have looked like then?

            Your “Quitter” comment came directly from the Left wing talking heads and media releases. I have come to expect you capbable of more original and deeper thought.

            If your intent is to get reaction to Left wing propoganda points then in the future please post them as quotes or reference them as such. Then I won’t be confused nor disappointed.

            I hope you had a great weekend.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              Nice try JAC – I caught a ticker that she’d resigned and then I saw her disaster of a news conference. I don’t need anyone to tell me she is a quitter – that would be stating the obvious, something which I called out in other forums before the left media machine weighed in.

              I never stated that she should not put her family on stage. I could give a shit if she did or did not parade them about, just don’t link them to your positions and then get mad when people ask questions.

              Lastly – don’t lump stupid Letterman jokes into the same bucket. That’s just weak.

              • I guess I will just have to be disappointed.

                And where in my comments did I make any reference to Letterman?

                So as you did not see other lefties before putting out your deep thoughts on this I guess you must be the “source” of the lefties talking points for the weekend.

                That sure does fit your self proclaimed position as a slightly liberal moderate.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                There is no deep thought in recognizing when someone quits JAC. The right can keep putting lipstick on the pig, but she is still a pig.

          • Alan F. says:

            “Billy Beer” Carter & Roger “The Actor” Clinton are your examples VS a teen, a tween and an infant with Down syndrome? Reach any farther and your arm will fall off. I’m dieing for examples of how far things went with slander… Fire away.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              I didn’t raise the point Alan – so quit trying to pin it on me. Palin is a pure hypocrite – do as I say not as I do:

              • Bama dad says:

                Hypocrisy is the act of pretending that one has beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities or standards that they do not actually have; this is usually done in order to mask their actual motives or feelings; falseness.

                Ray said

                “Palin is a pure hypocrite – do as I say not as I do:”

                Weak video if that is your sole base for the accusation of her being a pure hypocrite. Now if you know the real reason she resigned; please let us and the rest of the world know as inquiring minds want to know. Palin is demonized because she is someone who appears happy with her traditional role in life (mother, wife, that sort of thing) and someone who has also been successful out side of the home (if she is a happy wife she needs to be bare foot and pregnant). She is not perfect; she makes mistakes just like everyone else. What most progressives don’t like about her is she states her beliefs, tries to live by them, knows she is not perfect and really seems to be happy. Just does not compute for progressives.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                (a) She is rarely sure of her own beliefs and true to her being a politician they change with the wind;

                (b) She does not live by all her beliefs – if she believed in smaller government she would have lived in Juneau and not Wasilla during her term;

                (c) She is rare to self-reflect and thus improve upon where and who she is

              • Mike M. Houston Texas says:

                hypocrite?? Mr BHO led us to believe many things that he has back tracked on. SP was the governor of one state and did not leave that state in worse shape than when she started. Mr. BHO is systematically cratering America.

                It appears you are shooting at minows when the whale is swallowing your boat.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Alaska is better off? How so?

              • “she would have lived in Juneau and not Wasilla during her term;”

                WTF ?????

                Have you ever been to Albany? (just for one of many)

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Yes Frank – I have been to Albany. I have also been to Harrisburg. What’s your point?

              • Maybe I missed your point.

                I recall NY gov’s not really living in Albany, or Trenton, etc etc

          • During the presidential race it seems I remember Obama having quite a long list of people he deemed “off limits” and the MSM went right along with him and did just as he asked. Double standards at work here.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              and what was that long list Kym? His two daughters?

              • His daughters, wife, grandma and pretty much anyone who was remotely related to him. Funny how it was ok to slam Palin’s family but God forbid anything be said about Obamas.

              • Alan F. says:

                It’s my granny and if she’s going under the bus, I’ll do the tossing… yup that was a good one.

      • Terry,
        How do you feel about Sarah Palin threatening to sue a liberal blogger for defamation for talking about rumors that Sarah Palin may have resigned because of a criminal investigation?

        Do you value freedom of speech?

        Do you think it is Ok for elected government officials to attack their opponents in the press with threats?

        • Threats are a form of freedom of speech (as long as they are passive threats and not against someone’s life)…has she followed through? I didn’t think so.

          • Terry,
            You’re Ok with threats? Really?

            So if Obama threatens Fox News, and they give in, you don’t have a problem with that? Because – in this example – Obama didn’t follow thru with the threat – Fox News gave in…

            Threats from people in power have a tendency to squash opposition. I don’t think that’s free speech.

            • What in the heck do you call the so called “fairness doctrine”? A rather thinly veiled threat…IMO. But we hear no opposition from the left, another double standard which is SOP for the liberal elite.

              • In all fairness Terry, there are many on the “Left” who have called out against the “fairness” doctrine.

                Of course we don’t know what “Left” means anymore so maybe it is just some “Democrats” I hear opposing this.

                Good Day to You Sir

              • How many Liberal Elitists are among the dissenters?

              • I don’t know because I don’t know who “they” are.

                I do know Alan Combes opposed publicly as did some of the Air America crowd.

              • Thanks for that…I had no idea that some of the liberals had taken a stance against the FD.

                I hate to be a cynic, but it makes me wonder what their alterior motives might be.

              • Terry,
                I don’t agree with the “Fairness Doctrine”. Seems like quite the oxymoron of a name to me…

            • USWeapon says:

              Threats of litigation are not attacks on free speech Todd. If the “journalist” wasn’t worried about losing the suit, they wouldn’t have killed their story. I don’t know anything about the story that you are talking about here, but threatening a defamation suit doesn’t fall into the realm of denying first amendment rights as best I can tell. If the claims by the “journalist” are made up and defamatory, then yes I am absolutely OK with her threatening to sue.

        • Actually, until they do tort reform, I feel that free speech has taken many liberties that are not moral and not given…if they are truthful…no problem. If they attack and are derogatory and libelous…sue the crap outta them. I hate that because I do not like lawyers..but what the hell…think like a left winger and sue.


        • Todd:

          You seem to have a distorted view of what “Freedom of Speech” means.

          If this blogger is in fact putting out false information for the sole purpose of “slander” and “defamation of chararcter” then Ms. Palin or anyone else should sue their pants off.

          And that is the standard here Todd. Is the information False? Is it being constructed by someone without foundation? Spreading or creating “Rumors” designed to destroy someones reputation should be subject to legal action by the adversely affected.

          The interesting part is that we all accept such legal action as appropriate when taken by a regular citizen but petty if initiated by a politician. Shouldn’t our policians in fact be treated just like regular citizens? So YES I do support a politician threatening legal action against “slander” and “defamation”.

          Perhaps that would stop some of the B.S. occuring in the media arena.

          • JAC,
            The blogger wasn’t starting the rumors, she was talking about the ones that already exist.

            When you enter the political arena, the game changes. You have to have a thick skin and be able to take criticism.

            By your definition, Obama and Pelosi could sue a lot of the commenter’s here for “slander” and “defamation”. Perhaps that would stop some of the B.S. occurring here.

            • Now your just being stupid. To stretch the example in Alaska to commenters or posters here is ridiculous at least. I am suspecting you know that but its more important for you to attack anything you perceive as “conservative” or “republican”. Calling polytickshuns names or discussing opinions in the public arena is not defamation nor slander. This is a legal issue with criteria regarding the threshold for violating the standards.

              As I said above, if the person was “creating” the rumors to defame then sue. There is a chance they could be found guilty if they continue to spread rumors known to be false if there is proof of intent to defame or slander. The threat of a suit is hollow if there is no proof of intent to defame and the blogger would know that, as do most people who operate in the public arena. Thus they are not going to be intimidated.

              At the same time, anyone should have acces to litigation to stop outright slander and defamation. It is a vile form of coersion by force. The courts are the proper mechanism for getting it stopped and punished.

              Your inference is that anyone in politics should just suck it up regardless of the form of attack. That would fit the “progressive” view that the ends justify any means whatsoever.

              Is that your view also Todd?

            • Alan F. says:

              That already existed? You are kidding? Here’s a question for you:

              As proven by what evidence? If none can be presented then guess what? It doesn’t exist therefore to the best of anyone’s ability to prove otherwise he/she/it as the first to post such is the instigator of said rumor.

              “Need thick skin…” is an attempt at mitigating the damage as hard data proving your point is woefully absent. When you move to excuse an action, not explain it, you are in fact admitting defeat. Anytime I have done such I’ve been, for the most part, joking which is also admitting something…

              “Perhaps that would stop some of the B.S. occurring here.” now you’re just mad for losing this one and lashing out. Suck it up man and dig deep. If your argument is good you’ll score points but don’t expect to be handed a win here.

              • Alan,
                They were discussing rumors that have been around for a long time. I had seen them last fall before the election. If they were proven with evidence, they wouldn’t be rumors!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        I’m not giving a sigh of relief. I think it sucks that she assed out.

        • Now, Ray, I agree with you here. She should have stayed the fight…however, I do see a far reaching strategy here as well. I think she giving up this battle for the war,,,and I do not mean Presidency.


          • D13:

            That was my thought as well, right after: I wonder what family problem precipitated this?

            If you and I are correct on what the “war” consists of we may see her resign from the Republican party. Now, that would be interesting, NO?

            Good Day Colonel Justice sir.

            • Alan F. says:

              Should Ray choose to deny it or not, she actually has a voice that carries when most other conservatives can’t get themselves heard by the person standing next to them. Not a snow balls’ chance in hell they want her out on her own, saying what she wants without party restraint. Half of those she pissed off in Alaska were very much that old pay to play crowd and being “outed” surely had them squawking. Even in the McCain campaign infighting, it appeared those who make their bread from the background dealings were made very uncomfortable by her being so near the party closet. Biden might say idiotic things but he’s still a party guy in the end and proven by his longevity in the game. Palin was nothing of the sort and that had to have a great number squirming in their seats and damned happy their own party lost out this time.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                A voice? She apparently has as many skeletons in her closet as any in the old boy network of the Repubs. She was popular because (a) most women that saw themselves as conservative all of a sudden had someone they could better associate themselves with (instead of a wrinkly old white guy) and (b) she quickly filled the VPILF/PILF fantasy many conservative men were long sitting on. That she often espouses conflicting messages, lacks a command of basic issues and cannot remember the rehearsed positions of her own damn party is, I guess, inconsequential.

              • “She apparently has as many skeletons in her closet as any in the old boy network of the Repubs.”

                Ray, I believe your comment should read network of politicians. There are no lack of skeletons in the Dem side either.

              • Ray Hawkins says:


              • If you threw them all in a paper bag and shook the R’s and D’s off of them, you could not tell them apart when you dumped them out.

              • Alan F. says:

                She’s been worked over more so than any leftie you can dredge up and all that digging has uncovered what? Anything they’ve been shy to show on every media outlet already salivating over her resigning? The missed out on something because its too crass to speak of? Not a chance. They had it, they used it and held nothing back.

            • Neither Ray nor I will deny her voice and I do not think that she will go away nor does she need to…..you are quite right in that what she says carries more weight than anybody right now because the press is making her a “picked on” celebrity…Do I think she will carry the guide-on to the Presidency…no. Do I think she will make a fantastic Senator…yes and in the Senate, carry more weight than the President.

              She will use the victim, and rightly so, card..as well as fiscal conservative card.. She will say that it is hard to govern the State with so much attention being thrown her way and she will say that she saved the State money by not throwing tax dollars for her defense away to combat the negative media. I may be wrong, but the Senate is where she is headed. She will not get nor seek the Repub Presidential bid….at this time. That is my humble opinion….as humble as I can be.


              • D13…I agree.

              • Alan F. says:

                I too agree the presidency is not the immediate goal but a senate seat is and she’ll get it.

              • v. Holland says:

                Isn’t the only way she can run for the senate, right now to go against another republican who currently has the seat and the other senate seat won’t come up for reelection until what 1214

              • Alan F. says:

                There’s a host of seats coming up in 2010 is there not? What about the 2010 in Pennsylvania against the turncoat Arlen Specter?

              • v. Holland says:

                It worked for Ms. Clinton

          • I am personally very encouraged by Palin’s resignation and truly hope she is looking for a bigger way of helping our country.

            When you are no longer beholden to a job, the people of Alaska, or to the Republican party (I too, anticipate her separation here), you become free to speak, educate and finally change the downward spiral that we are currently falling into.

    • Ray, Please remember that at least a few children may be reading this. Mine and Esom’s, for instance. Keep your language at PG13 levels. Please and thank you.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        PG13? Seen the Comedy Channel lately? Politics is a dirty game CSM. Point made and taken.

        • Acutally, no, I have that channel blocked under parental controls …

          • Alan F. says:

            They’ll soon have the right to unblock your block on the grounds found within the Fairness Doctrine. Yup, they’ll be blocking your blocking with another blocking. Block that!

            • 😆

            • Darn, Alan, that gave me a headache.

            • All TV’s come with a device that stops children from viewing inappropriate programming: the on/off switch. As a back-up you can resort to unplugging the thing. Anybody who relies on high tech solutions to protect they’re children has obviously forgotten how effective a determined child can be at getting around such barriers.

      • Csm,
        Does this standard apply to the conservative commenter’s here too?

        • IMHO, yes. However, USWeapon runs the place and he is the Supreme Being in this little world. I can only say that is the first time I’ve seen that particular word appear in this blog. It’s possible to convey the emotional intensity of your opinion without swimming in the sewer — US and Black Flag do it every day.

          • CSM,
            I agree:

            It’s possible to convey the emotional intensity of your opinion without swimming in the sewer

            But on many of the topics here, there are conservative comments “swimming in the sewer”.

            • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

              Please cite examples.

              • I hope when Obama gets home his mama runs out from under the porch and bites him on the leg.

                I hope our Idiot President isn’t that stupid.

                Mr. Hussein Obama’s pledge

                He would be just another rubberstamp vote for whatever that bastard wants.

    • “Sarah, the ultimate conservative ‘whore”


      You continue to demonstrate why most liberals are considered intolerant and hateful. Your leader calls us “bitter”. I must say, reading words like you post here, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I do wonder why you cannot at least stay focused on her professional actions, it would make you come of more credible.

      Maybe you are “cranky” from lack of sleep. Been there, it will get better.
      So a very good morning to you Ray.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Figure of speech LOI

        I don’t want to hate Sarah any more than the majority here wants to hate Obama, Reid and Pelosi. I looked forward to what she could evolve to for 2012 – it could have been a win/win for a lot of people and been a helluva challenge.

        • I do not hate Obama nor Reid…Pelosi is another story, but I’ll leave it there. I do not hate them, I hate their policies…in my most humble opinion their policies are destroying many things that many Americans fought and died for, and I personally think it is obvious, dangerous, and potentially catastrophic.

        • Alan F. says:

          Obama everyone wanted to like, believe me. Hell, here he was more popular than in America during the election in which he was seen as a left leaning centrist.

          Oddly enough Reid’s pretty much what he proports himself to be so he’s good here. Also any scandals are pretty much minor considering he’s from NEVADA. I’d have guessed any politico from there would be able to field an army of the undead with what’s packed away in them closets. He’s shy a few thousand bones in that regard or they’d have been used against him already.

          Pelosi appears more familiar with pharmaceuticals and their use than Pfizer. With her take on things happening around her, from the Pope’s imagined adoration to her not recognizing herself on video saying what she swears she didn’t and all those far too happy moments caught on video in between, I can’t imagine life is dull for Grace Slick Sr.

      • LOI,
        Does this standard apply to the conservative commenter’s here too?
        Are you going to stay focused on the professional actions of the democrats, or will all of you continue to take personal cheap shots at democrats?

        • Todd,

          I cannot speak for all here, they are independent minded people. I have found the majority here to be on a much higher plane than what I find at Alter Net for example. The majority here focus on issues, not personal attacks.

          I think Esom calls Pelosi Natzi or something similar. Which I find different than “whore”, as its a political based insult, not personal in nature. I try not to do much name calling myself, but don’t claim to be innocent. I will stand by all insults I have made, as being accurate or entertaning, you silly tree hugger. LOL, admit it, made you smile.

          I also think if USW is successful here, you will come to regard yourself as a independent, not a democrat or republican.

          • LOI,
            Are you really defending Esom’s and other’s comments about Pelosi as not being personal? Really? Those comments aren’t intolerant and hateful?

            Tree hugger forever!! 🙂

            You may not believe this, but I’ve always been an independent. Since I don’t agree with the majority here I’m labeled a liberal.

            • Alan F. says:

              I’m an ultra greenie, I save plant life each day by ridding the world of those nasty herbivores broiled, fried or BBQed.

              • Alan F. says:

                Hey as I’m munching away on those green house gas emitting cud chewers in both cow and buffalo flavors with such zest this summer, do I earn any carbon credits? Air miles? Eternal hatred from the bovine sect? A nifty moniker like the Bovinator?

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                If God hadn’t intended for man to eat meat, he wouldn’t have made meat taste so darned good 🙂

            • Todd:

              Independent is a reference to a political party.

              Liberal and conservative are generalized philosophical positions.
              Although they are basically meaningless in todays political discussions because they have been subverted.

              So where do you stand on the scale of Statism vs. Liberty?

              Or the scale of Coersion (violence) vs. Freedom?

              If you don’t want to be “mis-labled” then don’t use bad labels in the first place. Or create you own. But if you do, you will need to constantly remind everyone of why your new label fits your value system.

              If it fits I would welcome another Radical Right Wing Liberal to the fold.

              Hope your day goes wonderfully

              • JAC,
                I was just making a general reference – I’ve never been a register Republican or Democrat. I vote based on issues and a candidate’s position on the issues, and a candidate’s credibility and integrity.

                You can label me however you want – that has no impact on me.

        • Todd, there may be some personal shots at some of the Dem pols, but I think if you go back and reread the posts and comments, this blog does exactly what you are touting: staying focused on the professional actions of (all) politicians.

          So with that in mind, what has Sarah Palin done in her professional career that you (and Ray) so despise?

          • Kathy,
            I don’t despise her. I actually find her quite amusing and will be sorry if she leaves the national spot light – which I don’t think will happen. But the fact that she quit as governor when the going gets tough tells me a lot about her character.

            • Kristian says:

              Here’s a question for you then. Should she have stayed and run her family into the poor house so that the nation wouldn’t have a bad opinion of her?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Bunch of baloney – she already had a legal defense fund that drew six figures online w/ little to no advertising or push.

              • Kristian says:

                And where does that money come from? Contributions? Isn’t that kinda like living on the dole? Do we really want her to do that?

            • I see this move as taking control instead of letting others control her via lawsuits, articles. Some say she should have “stayed the fight”. The fight against who? An “enemy” that continues to bring unfounded lawsuits again and again?

              Have you ever thought it unfair that a politician decides to run for another office while currently holding a different office? Who was representing Obama’s Senate District when after two years of his term he headed off to run for President?

              I give Palin a ton of credit for being fair to the people of Alaska and she’s now free to speak for herself.

              I don’t care if she decides to become a TV commentary or the head of the national Tea Party movement or runs for a national seat somewhere (would LOVE to have her come to Wisconsin!!!), her Conservative views, her ability to go against the “business as usual” mantra and the absolutely irrational responses from the left can only mean good things ahead for Sarah Palin.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Kathy – enough of the Sean Hannity re-tread – Hannity is a complete idiot – how many politicians on either side of the aisle have run for one office while presently holding another. What a crock.

                Fair to the people of Alaska? She didn’t have enough guts to go live in Juneau because she figured out she couldn’t control people there the way she controlled folks in Wasilla.

                She only goes against BAU when it benefits her and her cronies.

              • I caught a bit of Hannity while driving home from work and was thinking the same exact thing.

              • Ray, haven’t watched Hannity in weeks, I’ll take credit for my own thoughts.

                Agree, politicians on both sides screw their constituents when they run for another office; perhaps this should be changed.

                I’m not sure what your bug is about her home location, what controversy are you trying to drum up here?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                She is soon to be investigated for all the per diems she was cashing in because she elected to live full time in Wasilla rather than where she was supposed to: Juneau – some 600 miles away.

                If I want to look for another job and interview for one should I be required to resign my current position? Have you?

              • I’ve never been employed by the taxpayers and I’ve never interviewed for two years.

    • Ray, I’m hoping you are so angry because you are starting to realize what a mess this country is heading towards and are concerned for the future of that little baby you brought into this world a few short weeks ago. If so, then your anger is well placed. If that’s not it, why the hell all the anger…..you won! You should be jumping for joy at the decisions this Administration is making.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Kathy – generally I am an optimist. The new baby has forced me to think even deeper than I already did about most things. I am pissed today because yet again, stupidity and greed has won over logic, reason, and accountability.

        • Then I think I can speak for everyone here and say….we all agree with that!

        • Ray…you brought to mind… Murphy is an optimist. 🙂

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


          Having a new baby will indeed make you think.

          I do not have any idea what tax bracket your family is in, but for the sake of argument, let’s say 28%.

          Would you rather see that tax raised to 33% in order to “fix” whatever problems exist in this country, or see it lowered to 23% so that you yourself could decide what to do with that extra 5%?

    • JayDickB says:

      Ray – I am not a Palin fan, but I think it’s premature to criticize her. We don’t really know the reason she is quitting, but it seems to me to be related to personal finance. She had to finance her defense against all the ethics charges, none of which have been sustained. She and her husband seem financially comfortable, but not wealthy enough to continue to pay the lawyers.

      There may be other reasons, but that seems plausible. If the spurious ethics complaints drove her from office, it’s a sad commentary on our politics.

  7. Birdman says:

    CNS News reports that Pelosi will not give the public time to read the Healthcare bill and Reid is doing the same. They know they have to quickly rush things through and jam it down our throats. CNS reports that there is now a movement to get Congress and the Senate to read all bills before voting on them — shouldn’t they be doing this anyway!

    If I were Govenor of some state, I would openly inform everyone that our state will not follow unconstitutional cap and trade or health care mandates. Congress has no constituional right to pass such laws and force them upon the states unless they pass an amendment to the constituion like they did for prohibition.

    Something needs to be done to stop the POTUS and Congress before it’s too late and it’s not going to be through tea parties, writing letters or calling them on the telephone. They know they have a window of opportunity to jam through legislation and they are taking full advantage of it. I don’t know how to fight the democratic fascist party. They have become masters at this game and know how to win. Look at how Al Franken stole the election. The end justifies the means and they will do whatever it takes to get their fascist agenda passed.

    • States rights are going to be a major issue again. Our governor, (Texas) made a similar statement last week. I am looking for the quote and source now to post it…but, Texas has already refused quite a bit of stimulus money..I wish we had not taken any of it..but we did not take the money that required programs to be on going after the money ran out.

      We also have a State Constitution that does not allow budget deficits. I understand this is under attack from the Feds now…Barney Frank’s comment that any State that does not run a deficit is not properly taking care of its people…is laughable.

      One thing that has happened though, and this is in the process of being changed, is borrowing. Payments of interest is in our budget and must be balanced. We have no State income taxes and do not need any.

      It is coming.


      • By coming, I do not mean more taxes..by coming, I mean…it will take strong states to set the agenda. I feel that Texas will be a lead in the near future.

        • Birdman says:

          I hope other Governors in other states do the same but there are only a few states that are in the green. Conservative States need to assert their rights and do it quickly. Liberal fascist states will never fight the federal government.

          • I hope so too, but even in Texas, we had our problematic President’s. Lyndon Johnson was a laugh and George Bush II was not much better. As a Texan, I voted for Bush because the alternatives were worse..however, I railed on him just as hard because, as a governor, he was quite different than as a President. Potomac Fever caught him and it is fatal.


    • Based on your last sentence I assume you have finished Mr. Goldberg’s book.

      Do I detect someone who has been “enlightened”???


      • 🙂

      • Birdman says:

        JAC, I finished the book and my wife is reading it now. It is an eye opening book and shows the history of liberal fascism up to the present day. I am on a waiting list for Mark Levin’s new book.

        What other books would you recommend that I read?

        • JudyS.NV. says:

          Isn’t that what H.D. Thoreau’s Civil Disobedience is all about?

        • v. Holland says:

          What’s the title of this book, Please?

          • The book I referred to and read by Birdman is:

            Liberal Fascism

            By Jonah Goldberg

            • Birdman says:


              Any other books that you recommend we read?

              • Check out USW’s reading list.

                I posted a couple there some time back

                Also a must:

                The Debate on the Constitution; this is a two part series published by The Library of America.

                But this takes a long time to read as it is the collection of letters supporting and oppossing ratification.

                Will check out my stacks and get some more to you.


            • v. Holland says:

              Thank You!

  8. v. Holland says:

    Hi, Just a question-Biden also said that Israel had the right to make their own decisions-some people feel this was the administrations signal to Israel that it’s okay to bomb Iran. What do you guys think?

    • LOL…..Israel has been given the right to exist in 1948/47? Somewhere back there….let them defend themselves and blast away. The political leanings of the Middle East would not be solved if Israel did not exist…same old mantra would be there.

      Israel will do what it deems best. Leave them alone and Obama needs to leave them alone as well.


      • v. Holland says:

        Hi, Just a question-Biden also said that Israel had the right to make their own decisions-some people feel this was the administrations signal to Israel that it’s okay to bomb Iran. What do you guys think?
        I certainly agree with your comments but it just seems like this administration is always looking for ways to have deniability-so I have to wonder why Biden choose to make these comments Now.

        • v. Holland says:

          Sorry, guess I was supposed to delete the original question 🙂

        • The correct term is “plausible denialbility” (sp)…and that is exactly what is going on. Obama makes a big deal out of saying the cold war does not exist…but he is provoking it right now..in this instance. He wants to be in a “moral” position of saying no…and under the table he is kicking Israel in the foot saying go baby go.


          • Amazed1 says:

            This is scary….1 because the US is acting all innocent and 2 because Arabia gave them the “blind eye” on using their air space.
            It just may get real close quarters for the US in the ME. I wonder is Isreal will take the bait?
            I realize Isreal is a independent st

            • Amazed1 says:

              WOW…lost half my post!
              It should read….
              I ralize Isreal is an independent state and does not need the US’s go ahead….but it looks like it is just words or the part of the US.

        • Apparently Biden hadn’t checked with his master before talking:


      • Hard to leave Israel alone when they receive billions of dollars of weaponry and plain old billions of dollars from the US each year.

        • Yeah….I agree. By leave alone, I mean simply do not try to tell them what to do. They will still have our money and weapons. Whenever we develop a new one…give it to Israel. They will try it out. Do not with hold weapons or money simply for a political strategy against Iran.

          I do not share the view that Iran will fire at the US if Israel bombs them. Iran will bark….not bite.


          • Well it does not work that way really. Israel could refuse all the money and weapons from the US and stand on their own two feet. Until they do that the US will still be telling them what to do.

            What would Iran fire at the US? I was not aware of them possessing ICBM’s.

            • v. Holland says:

              Well, remember 911, you can do a lot of damage without having big weapons-besides the people who are endangering Israel are also endangering us-and there have been times that we the US, have encouraged Israel to do what we felt we couldn’t do ourselves. Looks like we may be doing that again.

    • Alan F. says:

      Biden said it… so how to separate from just another gaff?

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        I do not attribute anything that Joe Biden says during an “unscripted moment” to being a gaffe of any kind. I think that it is at precisely those times that he is actually speaking his mind and telling everyone what he really thinks!

  9. Judy S. says:

    Good morning all.

    I hope everybody had a great 4th of July weekend. What gets my goat is, all the moaning and groaning they did when Bush spent money, saying how he was wasting the tax payers money, but it’s okay for Obama to be spending our money like it’s going out of style. How he keeps coming up with flippant stimulus packages thinking it’s going to help the American people and all these companies. All these bills that keep coming up, but yet nobody takes the time to read, they just go ahead and sign away. What’s going to happen when our taxes go so sky high that nobody can pay anything? What about the elderly who can barely make it now, those who are on a fixed income that can’t possibly come up with anymore money, what’s going to happen to them? Are they going to be thrown out in the street if they can’t pay anymore taxes? I know, it’s not suppose to be for those who make less than $250,000 a year, but really, am I suppose to believe that? Not on your life, we’ll get stabbed just the same. And, what about this making our vets have to pay extra for supplemental health insurance, is he that heartless? Wait, don’t answer that, I think I know, and the answer is YES. What about those vets who couldn’t possibly afford supplemental health insurance, what are they suppose to do? Someone asked the other day, if they knew any other vets who might have gotten a letter about that. Well, my husband and one of my son’s are both vets, and haven’t received any letters about that yet. If, and when they do, I’m sure the fur will fly here. Gee, for some reason, they were under the impression, that once they served in the military, they would be taken care by their own, guess not now. This administration I think has got to be the worst in history our of all others. They don’t give a rats behind about anybody in this country, only themselves and what they can get out of it. I hope the people who voted for him are finally wising up or waking up to see what they voted for.

  10. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    “Behind the glow of a state funding increase for education — Indiana was one of the few states in the nation to grant one this year — lies this hard fact: The schools attended by the poorest children in the state took it on the chin.”

    This is the first paragraph from an article about education funding in the latest Indiana State Budget from the Indianapolis Star.

    Note how the author uses great propaganda tactics to set the whole tone of the article.

    The article, much later on, does go on to mention that the schools losing funding are the schools that have decreasing enrollment.

    The formula used by the State Legislature to come up with the school funding this year was (essentially) the following:

    School funding PER STUDENT will be increased by 2%. Therefore, the schools that “lost funding” still in reality got 2% more ON A PER STUDENT BASIS, they just lost enough students that the total amount of money that they are receiving did indeed go down.

    Of course, the Democratic Legislators are complaining that this “disproportionately” affected inner-city and poor school districts. Yes, it really DID affect these school districts, but in reality, the affect was DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount that enrollment in the schools in these districts decreased, and funding increases for suburban “rich-people” public schools was increased DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount that enrollment in these schools increased.

    I am sure that there are at least a few people here that will claim that this funding formula is still fundamentally unfair, and that we MUST throw more money at the poor performing schools in the inner cities than we throw at the better performing schools in the suburbs, but I would argue that that has already been tried and demonstrated to continually fail, so why should we keep doing that?

    • v. Holland says:

      Seems to me the main problem with our schools are some of the students-it doesn’t take very many disruptive students to stop the teaching of all. A friend of my daughters went to a “bad school” for lack of a better word and she said the teachers were scared of some of the students and were unable to teach because they were too busy just trying to keep order. Funny, the work was so easy and the teachers so happy to have students who weren’t a problem that this child made straight A’s-when she finally was able to move to a different school-she was making F’s. I’m not sure how to fix this problem but somehow we have to get the trouble makers separated from the kids who want to learn

      • JudyS.NV. says:

        I think that’s maybe why more kids are getting home schooled, that and because from our own experience here, teachers don’t seem to eager to help the students if they need it. When our son’s were in school, high school, not elementary, the teachers didn’t seem to teach anymore really, all they ever did was to have them read the chapters then do the questions at the end. They didn’t make the classes exciting anymore. If a teacher tries to discipline a student for something, the parents would threaten law suit, first thing that came out of their mouths. I’m not saying all teachers are that way, but the few we had to deal with were. Our son’s got bored with school because of the lack of interest the teachers seem to have with the students, and that they didn’t take the time to see if there was anybody who may have needed help. We took our oldest son in the 10th grade, and he proceeded to get his GED. We took our youngest son out in the 10th grade as well. He did a correspondence course on the internet, and got his diploma in half the time. Don’t regret it for a minute. , didn’t seem to hurt them any. They are both doing tremendously well now.

    • Unfortunately, Texas has a Robin Hood approach. This was changed some time ago supposedly to “equate” things. I support the homeowners opinion, that the taxes they pay should stay in the districts it is taxed and not sent to a district in another city. This Robin Hood approach threw money at other districts but is a dismal failure. The more affluent districts then decided to “donate” more money to their own respective districts and that was shot down as it still created, in the minds of some, an unfair practice. I do not know the answer to the school system except the parents and teachers.

      If the parents do not get involved, then the children are subject to outside influence. Texas is pretty good about involvement but it seems that a lot of people look at a school as a baby sitter. Throwing money at inner city school districts under the misplaced guise of “poor” is a crock of gold plated froggy poop….it does not fly. Money does not change the mindset of entitlement except to create greed and to breed inefficiency and complacent parents and children. We, the US, has created a bigger slave state than anything ever before seen. The chains of bondage are simply not made of steel. Generational poverty is a CHOICE….yes, left wing…A CHOICE….you do not have to be stifled into poverty. You can get out of it if you get off your ass. So, I do not want to see rhetoric of ” I don’t have the same chances”…..BULL DOOKEY. The poorest of the poor can get out of the ghettos and make something of themselves…put on foot in front of another and go. Put up the cell phones, WiFi, computer games, dope, alcohol and get out and get an education. It is available even if you are dead broke.

      Time for a Dr. Pepper.


      • Sorry USW…got off topic. This is a hot button…but better now. Have Dr. Pepper in hand.


      • umm, sir, I have a question. Does non gold plated froggy poop fly? 😉

      • v. Holland says:

        Almost scared to make a reply :), but I must. I agree with what you say up to a point, but from my experience although education is there for the taking other students can and do interfere with the teachers ability to teach and this leads to students who want to learn to receive a below par education. If my daughters friend had continued at the same school(above comment) I have to assume she would have passed but without the knowledge she really needed. So, I believe for children to really have access to a good education, the disruptive and especially the violent students must be removed from the classrooms-I don’t know if special classes or special schools need to be set up but something needs to be done so the good majority can learn.

        • Never be afraid to speak your mind. This is a great topic for some other forum but USW is the call on that one….HOOOWWWEVER, since I am here..You are quite right about the students but, again, my point is the parents..students are what they are because of that. There should be some way to make parents responsible. Although there are those that will say…”while I am at work, how can I be”….well, hit ’em in the pocket book. That is how. Very simple really. I have no problem with “special schools” to put unruly students and those “special schools” should have some discipline….maybe like boot camp.


          • v. Holland says:

            The “scared part” was just a joke. Didn’t mean to change the subject though-probably have done that several times today-will try to do better. Boot camp sounds good to me-maybe after a little of that, they could re-enter the regular school.

  11. Back on topic, I think Biden slipped his leash, and done what he does so well. Its interesting to hear all the comments on how poor Palin was/is, but nothing about Joe doing what politicians NEVER do, give a strait answer. They have not fixed the economy, and he admitted this.

    USW said:
    “So what did Biden say that drew my attention in the interview? He made the admission that the administration far underestimated the financial crisis when they were working on the solution a couple of months ago.
    what I remember, Joe, is that you and the administration spent a lot of time telling us that we were facing possibly the worst financial crisis in history.

    I think that it is time to start really talking about what is going on here. First of all, this needs to be recognized as an admission that this administration is, on one hand, helplessly lost in terms of where we need to go as a country. ( I totally agree, their only policy has been tax and spend, and I challenge anyone to show otherwise)

    Second we need to be willing to see how willing they are to feed us a complete line of bullshit in order to get the American public to buy in to whatever “fix” Uncle Sam offers to the current “crisis” that only government can save us from.”
    (B.S., what, where? OK, start with the global warming “crisis”, that requires the cap & trade to be rushed into law, but there is plenty of time to add 300 pages of pork. Then health care, that must be dealt with now, millions of people are dying in America, we must act!!!!!!!! yep, B.S. Does our health system need reform, yes. Are they looking at what works in other states or countries to figure this out? NO, they are doing just what has been shown to fail as how to fix this problem.)

    Also significant, Joe’s answer on Israel, was honest and straitforward, again, not what politicians do, and not what he should be saying here. Its in the news that Saudia Arabia will allow Israel to use their airspace to attack Iran’s nuclear facility.

    • v. Holland says:

      I’m just not convinced that everything Biden says is Joe, being Joe, I think some is planned.

      • I wonder too. He is too loose-lipped and always has been and with this tight lipped Adm. he never should have made the VP cut. Supposedly (really an internet rumor here), he knew about Vera Baker/BO’s relationship through her lobbying/PR company that Biden’s son used also and that was why he was selected.

        But now I think they’ve found a useful purpose for him – takes away from BO having to admit these errors and if it doesn’t come off….well, it’s just Joe being Joe.

      • Alan F. says:

        Oh like a “We lost the spotlight to Palin dammit… quick Joe say something!”

    • JayDickB says:

      Sometimes I wonder if Obama & Co. are really trying to stimulate or just take over. Seems to me the latter makes more sense.

      • Judy S. says:

        Personally, I think he’s trying to take over, EVERYTHING, including all our lives.

  12. So how do you underestimate the severity of the “worst economy since the Great Depression”?

    You fail to recognize that your actions will result in an economy worse than the “Great Depression”!

  13. From The Bobo Files

    Critics of government involvement in healthcare have plenty of nightmarish (and accurate) expressions with which to describe the predictable result of further intervention: “Post-Office care,” “Amtrak-care,” “DMV-health.” Of all the nicknames, perhaps the most accurate name for the public insurance option is the one offered by John Calfee from the American Enterprise Institute:

    “Fannie Mae Health Care.”


    • Nice – I will use these as perfect examples of what happens when government runs a program.

      Thanks for sharing!

  14. Reminder!

    Cap and Trade is in the Senate this week. Have you contacted your Senator(s) offices yet with some friendly advice on how to vote?

    Contact info here: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

    Forward to everyone you know!

    • JudyS.NV. says:

      That’s going to be a tough one, considering one is Ensign, and the other one is Reid. Need I say more? People here in Nevada are not too thrilled with either one at the moment, especially with Ensign.

      • He needs to so something to stay on people’s good side…….a vote NO might be it. It is worth making the calls.

        • Agreed, had a poll questioner call last week asking if how my senators voted(he identified them)would affect my voting in 2010. Assured him it would and I would be voting.

          Have sent email to both today, thanks for the reminder.

        • JudyS.NV. says:

          Well, they’re ready to throw the book at Ensign, and they don’t trust Reid with a 10 foot pole either. They think that Reid isn’t doing enough for the people of Nevada, and I hear some say they won’t count on his vote to go the right way.

    • Bama dad says:


    • Right you are Kathy…..No one has a good reason to spek unless they have done their due diligence. Write and call not only your Senators but as many as you can. Also, take the lead and get others to call. The power of the internet is good as well…I hope that I can make a small difference. I will do my best.


      • Murphy's Law says:

        D13 is right- don’t just contact your own senators- a friend of mine once said (referring to those in Congress) that a thousand heads hit the pillow every night dreaming of the Oval Office. If they hear not only from those in their own states but other states as well, they have a good idea who is watching them all over the nation. I’ve started making my opinion known to them, but not finished……

    • Murphy's Law says:

      On every bill, there are those whose position on an issue is well known, and those who are undecided……it seems to me the most bang for the buck is to make sure we send emails to the undecided, but I admit I don’t know which senators fit that description, and not sure how to access that info. Can anyone help me out here? If not, I’ll just email all that I can…..

  15. I wonder if anyone ever stopped to think….Stop foreign aid, close the UN (Let Chavez have it), and stop funding global warming and there would be no need for a second stimulus..much less a need for the first one? Oh, sorry, I am being logical. THAT is an oxymoron where Washington is concerned.


    • Murphy's Law says:

      Love it…….too bad that logic can’t seem to penetrate the force field around Washington. How about if we add to that list, stop funding programs to give illegal immigrants health care, food stamps, a college education, oh I don’t know, EVERYTHING the rest of us work hard to pay for……

  16. My thoughts on Palin, is she resigned because of all the constant personal attacks. She has a family, what could make loosing that worthwhile? Is she a good governor? I would think you would have to look at the job she has done, not her daughters sex life.

    • JayDickB says:

      I agree. I think the ethics complaints are bankrupting her family because she has to pay herself to defend against them.

    • Murphy's Law says:

      You are making the assumption that the major news media cares about the job she has done……and oh I guess they do insofar as it promotes their agenda. But wait! She has done nothing to promote the liberal agenda…….in fact she has been successful at thwarting it at every turn. What to do, what to do???? Focus on the daughter’s sex life, of course.

  17. Judy S. says:

    How about Gangster Government. They make you an offer you can’t refuse, or in this case, you better not.

  18. So she won 15 lawsuits, at a cost of half a million dollars? I think that’s more than most governors make.

    PALIN: This political absurdity, the politics of personal destruction. Todd and I, we’re looking at more than half a million dollars in legal bills just in order to set the record straight. And what about the people who offer up these silly accusations? It doesn’t cost them a dime. So they’re not going to stop draining the public resources, spending other people’s money in this game. It won’t stop. It’s pretty insane. My staff and I spend most of our days, we’re dealing with this stuff instead of progressing our state now.

    SCOTT: But it shouldn’t be lost on people that, you know, all of these ethics allegations that had been lodged against her, none of those stuck, right?

    CAMERON: That’s right. And, when you look at the polls, Jon, Sarah Palin remains, among Republicans, hands down, the most popular. A recent Pew Research poll put her favorable rating at 73 percent. Mitt Romney was the closest
    competitor with 57 percent among Republicans.


    • Judy S. says:

      I wonder what this is going to do with her popularity now, that she has resigned.

      • Danak13 says:


      • Amazed1 says:

        I was really looking for her to run for a senate seat….we’ll see.

      • Murphy's Law says:

        Of this I am certain, that the libs are terrified of her. There is no other explanation for the acrid response in the major news media to virtually everything she says or does. And that alone tells me she is doing something right. I don’t refer here to her resignation (which on the surface I don’t like, because she was sworn in for a four year term and she is not fulfilling that) but her political career as a whole. Only time will tell whether her resignation will in the long run be good for her and/or the country.

        • Murphy’s Law,
          I don’t think the Liberals are afraid of her. She does have tremendous support with the Republican base, but not much outside of that. She is very polarizing – you either love her or hate her. Most of her statements and speeches are very rambling and leave her open to easy criticism. If she enters the Republican primaries for 2012, the other Republican candidates will pick her a part. How can she defend resigning as governor?

          • Murphy's Law says:

            You say you don’t think the libs are afraid of her- of course you don’t since you are sympathetic to their point of view. Liberals have to tear her apart precisely because she is so hugely popular with not only her state, but everyone who hates politics as usual. She dealt quite a blow to the status quo in her own state, even going against the established Republicans. Libs see her as someone who can get a big share of the 20% in the middle that both parties fight over every election, which is to say, she can take power away from them. They’ll scream every time they perceive someone threatening their turf…..

            If nothing else, you would have to agree that she is not a typical politician, which I find very refreshing. She does what she believes is best, and the establishment be hanged. Admit it- she is more about change, doing things differently, than BO ever imagined being…..however if she turns out to be getting in bed, so to speak, with the power players in D.C., I’ll be among the first to call her out on it.

            And in answer to your question of how she can defend resigning as governor, she already said it was because she and her staff were spending most of their time defending against the frivolous attacks against her and she felt it best to step aside and not use such a large part of her remaining time as governor having to focus on the legal issues forces upon her. I can just hear the libs now, had she remained in office, saying she should have stepped down and let the Lt. Gov. take the helm when she had so many legal fights to answer. Understand, I am still not saying I agree with her decision to resign, I’m just pointing out that the libs will attack no matter what she does because, I repeat, they are terrified of her and the popularity she has that no one on their side comes close to having.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              Terrified? No. Concerned about another perfect storm that could land a bozo like her in the WH? Sure. No one popular from the left? Seriously you need to point that out? I thought the argument from the right was that Obama is where he is because he won a popularity contest?

              • Danak13 says:

                Great analogy, Ray. (Good morning to you)..glad you recognized that there are current Bozo’s in the White House and I like your “Perfect Storm” reference…I did not see it as that but it took just the right coincidences to get this Bozo elected…. that, and a bunch of people just wanting “change” and “change” there is. Like an out of control freight train.

                I do not like what I see but, you know, I think it will be good for us to see what happens when apathy sets in…This country needs a wake up call and it is getting it. It is not too late to stop this but time is getting short. 2010 will be interesting.

                D13 (How is the weather in PA today?)

              • Murphy's Law says:

                Good point, Ray. I was actually referring to anyone below the Presidency, though. BO has the WH and the dems must now try to keep it. I don’t think they are afraid of her winning the presidency…I doubt that will happen. I think she very well could win a Senate seat though, end up with more power than as governor and be a real thorn in their side, and that they don’t want.

              • Alan F. says:

                And Pelosi landing the job because of a bad pizza on game day isn’t scary? Canada would have to erect a fence to keep the illegals out.

              • Too funny…..

          • Alan F. says:

            Huh? You certainly don’t think captain teleprompter is writing his own material whenever he’s also stammering away when attempting to winging it? That he can’t repeat his own thoughts aloud without coming off like Drew Barrymore isn’t setting off any alarms? That she couldn’t get a speech writer hasn’t struck home yet? That she could use a pair of teleprompters and pass them off as merely being “in style” hasn’t been considered? That “The Barry” doesn’t take questions on anything shred-able he’s just said by anyone not a member of the congregation too obvious for consideration?

            If you are going to attack put some defensible effort into it.

    • v. Holland says:

      People need to realize that the Palin’s aren’t rich like a lot of our politicians.

  19. Judy S. says:

    I wonder if Joe Biden ever regrets taking the job of V.P., and what he really thinks of Obama.

  20. OK, totally stealing this from a comment section I just read but it covers both the Palin and Biden issues we are talking about here:

    “I was warned, that if I voted for McCain, we would end up with a dimwit for VP. I did and they were right!”

    • This is good, Kathy. I had to read it three or four times before it sunk in…:laugh:

    • Thanks for my best laugh so far today.

      Ray provides a lot of them but he is serious.

      • Gotta watch Ray like a Hawk….he is very in depth and, actually, very logical (sorry Ray, you really are)…he throws a lot of stuff against the wall and sees if it sticks in somebody’s craw….makes you think tho….and that is cool.

        D13 🙂

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          I need the check / balance that is here D13 – that is why I come. Lots to learn.

  21. Wow. More news about the economy not getting better. Maybe the administration should have realized that MASSIVE gov’t spending (stimulus) doesn’t improve the economy. It never has, 1rst world nations have tried it several times and it DOESN”T work. Obama needs to pull his head out of the sand and learn from history, instead of repeating it.

  22. Judy S. says:

    I liked Palin, and thought she was a good running mate for McCain, but who knows he wasn’t the one holding her back, who knows. If that makes any sense, I don’t know. For those who constantly bad-mouthed her, I wonder how they would have reacted if the shoe was on the other foot. Okay, you’re in politics, and that’s the name of the game, but still, I think that’s no excuse to what they did to her. No politician’s family should be in the line of fire, don’t care who they are. You couldn’t say BOO about Obama’s family. If she does run in 2012, it’s a good possibility that I would vote for her. It depends on who runs then too. I like Romney and Huckabee as well. I don’t know if she was a good governor or not, since I didn’t live in Alaska, only those who live there know that one. Another thing I think why people picked on her was because she spoke her mind, and was sincere in what she was talking about. She was very passionate about her issues, which I believe she believed in very strongly. It’s like what Jack Nicholson said in the movie A Few Good Men! ” You can’t handle the truth”, and I think they were afraid of her for speaking the truth too. I have never, ever seen so much, I don’t want to say hatered, here, how about content or disdain for someone, as I saw with Sarah Palin. What were they so afraid of if McCain and Palin won? Were they worried that maybe they would get this country on the right track again or what? They couldn’t have done any worse than Obama and his henchmen are doing now.

    • v. Holland says:

      Liberals seem to be very concerned that Palin was going to create a theocracy because she made a point of saying she didn’t abort her sweet baby and said that abstinence was a good way to go-from my reading of comments on blogs they really dislike Republicans mostly because of social issues and Mrs. Palin seems to represent to them those social issues in the flesh, because she dares to speak of her Christian values. Now I certainly don’t want a theocracy either, but I do believe that a society has the right to decide social issues-Majority rules and all that.

      • Judy S. says:

        I don’t think she would have done that anyway. Was it any different when Bush spoke of his Christian values? Probably. It’s really a shame that politicians can’t talk about their Christian values, or any other religion that speak of their values. I consider myself to be a republican, and yes, I am totally against abortion, but I also think a person should make the right choice, not have one because it’s inconvenient to have a baby. Maybe I feel that way because I had 2 miscarriages half way through both pregnancies 28 years ago, and to me abortions are not the way to go. If a woman gets pregnant, and then decides she doesn’t want, then at least give birth to the baby, give it up for adoption if you have to, but at least let that baby have a life, don’t snuff it out even before it’s born. As for democrats not liking republicans because of moral and Christian values, then there is a real problem with the political world. Is it alright for democrats to speak of their values, yes it is, but why is not not okay for the republicans to speak theirs. I’m sure that somewhere there has to be a medium out there for the two to come together on that particular issue. Isn’t Obama trying to make this country a socialist one because he believe it’s the right way to go? Of course he is, doesn’t matter what the rest of the country thinks, he’s going to do what he wants to do, and it’s doesn’t matter who thinks what or how anybody cares about it. If he succeeds in what he’s trying to accomplish, then we are all in for some serious hurting here.

        • v. Holland says:

          I didn’t actually say that democrats are against moral or Christian values, -I’m sure many democrats are Christian-they just interpret the Bible differently than I or Mrs. Palin seems too.

          • Judy S. says:

            I didn’t meant to imply they don’t, and I think you’re right about them interpreting the Bible differently. Just like it seems they’re trying to change some of the constitution to fit their needs as well, or rights of the people to fit their needs to see how they should be also. That’s my opinion anyway.

            • v. Holland says:

              I didn’t think you were implying anything. I was just afraid that I didn’t state what I meant clearly enough, so I wanted to clarify.

        • Judy:

          Just remember: if we vote to limit another persons right to choice on any issue, we are giving them the right to limit our choices.

          • v. Holland says:

            Pretty broad statement-laws limit choices-would hate to live without any limitations on peoples choices. If you haven’t noticed some people are just plume crazy.

      • V. Holland:

        I suggest you really take a few minutes and ask yourself where this will end up:

        “but I do believe that a society has the right to decide social issues-Majority rules and all that.”

        If you really and trully believe this then what are you complaining about?

        You have exactly what you believe in.

        • Judy S. says:

          Hi JAC, missed you over the weekend. Hope you had a great 4th. Anyway, getting back to the society has the right to decide social-Majority rules, I feel that it might be a matter of time before we lose that. The way Obama wants to rule over us, and make us live according to his way, not the way we wish to live our lives. I think we are slowing losing everything we have worked so hard for. I don’t like the idea of losing my right to be able to own guns or be able to have freedom of speech, or the freedom to do what I want, or just the plain freedom of living my life my way. What gives him the right to make everybody have health insurance? What if you don’t want it? Who does he think he is in telling us more or less how to raise our kids? You know, Black Flag and I had some really good conversations over the 4th, and we talked about a lot of things, and this is kind of what we talked about too. Losing our freedom little by little. He told me, we already lost it before 1865. If you go back to USW previous writing, you will be able to see some of what we talked about. Some of it just started getting into random talk though, so don’t mind that. It was the one USW wrote on the 2nd. That’s if you’re interested.

          • Judy S. says:

            JAC, I take that back, he wrote it on the 3rd, sorry.

          • Judy:

            Re: “getting back to the society has the right to decide social-Majority rules, I feel that it might be a matter of time before we lose that.”

            The question is whether you really want “majority rules”. If you do then be happy because you have it.

            The Constitution had big holes that allowed the current situation to develop. The difference between me and Flag is summarized in his discussion with you Friday.

            Some of us, me included, are fool enough to think we can construct a mechanism that will prevent the evil of government from escaping. BF is on the opposite side of the argument. For him, Evil can not be contained.

            But in this epoch struggle you and others must clearly understand that the basic philosophies that supported the concepts of Freedom and Liberty (as originally envisioned) no longer exist as a majority and may not exist as a meaningful minority.

            So how can we construct the perfect trap for Evil when most of our neighbors do not even recognize it for what it is? They see no need for a trap, just give Evil a new set of clothes and a new political slogan.

            And I had a wonderful 4th of July, thanks for asking. It was spent with old college friends and family (some of us intermarried) sitting on the beach of some filthy rich dude (who wasn’t home to chase us off) watching fireworks and thinking about the dreams and lives of our founding fathers. Especially Mr. Adams and Mr. Jefferson, who’s lives came to completion on that day. And of course wondering if their legacy will eventually meet the same fate.

            I hope yours was good as well.
            Best Wishes and Until Tomorrow

        • v. Holland says:

          Actually, I never said I didn’t have what I want, but that doesn’t mean I can’t complain, if that’s what I was doing, society is ever changing and I have a right and a duty to speak up, to vote, to hopefully help move society in the way I want and believe. Our government is set up for the majority to rule with the Supreme Court to protect the minority, is our system perfect, not hardly, but I can’t see any better way. Do I feel that our society has been going the wrong way, yes I do, but again I can’t see a better way. As far as how our society will end-it will probably be destroyed because human nature is human nature but I’m hoping that standing up for the Constitution will delay that final ending.

          • Judy S. says:

            That’s if the constitution stays the way it was written and not changed. I think mankind will eventually end up destroying itself. Not saying how or when, that I don’t know, in fact, I don’t think anybody does really. But if we end up destroying ourselves, I just hope there will be a way to start over again. Does that make any sense or not?

            • v. Holland says:

              Makes sense to me-President Obama being able to pick Supreme Court judges worries me more than anything. I personally don’t believe that the Constitution should be changed just to be “modern” and I believe in emphathy(sp)but Justice is supposed to be blind. I think we are wayyy off topic again. Sorry

              • Judy S. says:

                Don’t apologize, I have a habit of doing that. Sometimes I just start to ramble on about things that pop in my head, whether it be on topic or not, I think it makes for good conversations, don’t you. Sorry if I’ve been doing that. I did it over the weekend with a couple others, and we really had some good chats.

              • v. Holland says:

                Just new to the site-don’t wanna break the rules. It’s really pleasant to exchange ideas without all the hateful comments.

          • But V, the Constitution in fact allowed the current situation to happen.

            That and the desire of the “majority” of society.

            So you plan to accept or defend the very things that have created this inevitable destruction you mention.

            You are correct in your suggesting there is not a better way, if you are not willing to reject the core philosophy that supports our current system. Before you can see a better way you must accept a new paradigm with regard to your philosophical foundation (metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, and politics).

            What is your core value or foundation? You should be able to put it in one sentence.

            If you were not around when they were posted, you should go back and read the series on Philosophy from the beginning. You will have to click on prior articles at the bottom of the general page to find them all.

            And as you can tell, we are not done with the philosophical discussions.

            Best to you and yours

            • Hey V.

              The above was from me as I hope you know by the sign off.

              Somehow that Snap.com overrode my name.

              Some spooky stuff going on here USW!!!


              • v. Holland says:

                Yes, I realized it was you-and I will take your advise and read the past articles-and if I understand your questions I would say yea I would fight for the system that has brought about what we have now because my core value is freedom and I believe that our republic is the best way to achieve the greatest amount of freedom that we can achieve as a society. As for the rest of it-I’m gonna have to look up the definition of epistemology, but it’s gonna have to wait until tomorrow because 6:30 comes early and I must go to bed. Good Night, it’s been nice to talk to everyone.

              • V.H.

                See new thread below

            • TexasChem says:

              This is where I disagree with you JaC.The Constitution did not allow the current state of affairs to happen.The people of the republic allowed this to happen by allowing the Constitution to be misintepreted by so called constitutional lawyers and standing idly by and not doing a dang thing about it.

              • And without those holes none of that would be possible. That is the point.

                Among many the biggest was the dependance on the public to stand guard and the assumption the public would be able to turn back the tide of tyranny.

                We have absolute proof that if you give Govt a broadly written constraint IT will work to make it as BROAD as IT can. And the public will have no effect on IT’S efforts to do so.

                Texas, many folks in 1787 saw the holes and warned they would destroy the Republic. The optimists won the argument with the voting public. The pessimists were right.

              • JayDickB says:

                I have to agree with Texas on this one. Any document can be misinterpreted (twisted) by someone intent on doing so. One of the big problems with the current constitution is that there is no reasonable check on the Supreme Court. A remedy easier than a constitutional amendment is needed.

          • V.H.

            By the way, our system was not set up for the majority to rule and the Supreme’s to protect the minority.

            The Constitution was intended to protect both majority and minority from the tyranny of Govt. imposed by either.

            Your comment is consistent with the fallacy perpetrated by our modern educational and political system. And therein lies part of the problem.

            Also, I forgot to first give you a big welcome to the site. I hope you do find it a place to share ideas and to debate if desired. The only firm rules here are to be hard on issues and soft on the people. That is the people on this site. We all wander a little when it comes to the poly tickshuns.

            See you in the morning

  23. Judy S. says:

    V. Holland

    I’m answering you down here, too squishy up there now. Didn’t know you are a newbie, so welcome. I’ve been here I guess a couple months myself, and I couldn’t agree with you more. I used to go to the Fox Forum, but just about everybody there said a lot of hateful stuff, and I got tired of it. This site is so great, I just love it. At least here, everybody has respect for each other, even if they don’t always agree with each other. It’s nice to have decent conversations without all the name calling and derogatory remarks that others can make. Like with you, this is nice, I rather enjoy it. But, I really have to get off this computer, my eyes are blurring because I have been on the computer most of the day, at work, and here at home. Plus I have arthritis in both hands, and my fingers are really stiff in the mornings when I get up. So, I think on that note, I will call it a night. It has been a pleasure chatting with you and hope to see you here again tomorrow, so we can chat again.

    May you have a pleasant night and tomorrow.

    Your new friend Judy

    Take care.

  24. I was looking forward to seeing what Sarah was going to bring for the future of that party. But it does concern me that she has walked away from her position in Alaska. From what I understand from people I know who do live there, they liked the work she had done so far. But like the rest of us, a little confused why she is leaving. I truly wanted to see how she handled the up coming issues that were facing that state. I thought it was going to be a good test for her to shine.
    I guess we will wait and see what is next.

    AS far as family goes, all of them should be off limits. This is something that is not new for either party.

  25. V. Holland

    If your core value is Freedom and your political is Republic then you should not be defending the current system because that is not what you have. If you defend the existing you will get the existing. If we don’t make some serious changes to resurrect the original effort for freedom, liberty and republic we will be guaranteed none of them.

    The remaining question is whether such an effort will in fact resurrect and ASSURE the original, or whether it will just result in a long term return to what we have now. That is the grand debate we all need to have and understand. It is the essence of the difference between Black Flag and myself.

    Do not confuse my criticism of the Constitution or our current “system” with a desire to eliminate our “republican” form of govt or the Constitution. These are the fundamental political components to protecting our Freedom and Liberty. At least from the Very Damn Little Government point of view (VDLG).

    If your core is in fact freedom and liberty then we need to work hard to figure out how to make it last longer than it did last time. The real question is whether that is possible or whether the best we can do is to slow the natural progression of govt tyranny in order to allow the people to reset the mechanism more often, or at least before it gets as out of control as it is today.

    As you read the old series on philosophy, and I suggest you also look at the March to Socialism series, feel free to ask any questions. Many here will give you their best if the questions are sincere.

    Best Wishes and Good Morning

    • This was on fox, directed toward Iran. How many of these apply to the US?

      1. Religious suppression.
      2. Censorship of the press.
      3. Excessive force on peaceful protestors.
      4. Imprisonment for challenging the government.
      5. Oppression on the basis of gender, class, or race.
      6. Corruption and influence peddling.
      7. Elections that lack genuine accountability
      8. Violations of civil and human rights.
      9. The silencing of a voice and a vote.
      10. Apathy and fear.


      1. Lawsuits that result in prohibiting prayer in school and public gatherings.
      2. Obama holding press conferences where the reporters ask approved questions only.
      3. Does Waco or Ruby Ridge qualify?
      4. Never happens, unless you don’t pay your taxes. Freedom is not free or cheap.
      5. Hate crimes. Why is it a white attacking a white is less a crime than a white attacking a black or homosexual?
      6. 300 pages added to the Crap and Paid bill.
      7. Al Franken
      8. Does government seizure of property qualify?
      9. Tough one. I think the media has done this by misrepresenting political candidates to the public.
      10. Apathy, what percentage of population did not even vote? Fear, people are being questioned by the police for bumper stickers, like the Gadsden flag.

      So, is freedom in America being threatened?

      • Alan F. says:

        9. Isn’t tough at all. You’ve a liberal media machine ready and willing to publicly flay anyone not towing the line of the current administration. That I can recall, this was last seen in America with McCarthyism which is itself now universally denounced. With the shoe on the other foot, I don’t doubt this round we’ll call Obamaism will enjoy a similar place in the history books 50 years from now.

        • Mike M. Houston Texas says:

          Just my opinion. The media has pushed the plight of “black in America” so hard and so long. The result – America you are guilty, you should feel guilty, and make reparations for your guilt. We cant say anything about anyone of color, gender, sexual preference, or anything non-white. If you say anything about BHO we are obligated to flay you for being a racist. Clearly you didnt get the “you are guilty” memo. This has created a dangerous environment where we cannot disagree “openly” with our current presidents programs.

          Yes slavery was bad but we cannot move forward under the burdens of past sins. If I woke up each day and dwelled on what I did 40 years ago I would never get out of bed.

          Waiting for the NAACP to come protest in front of my house for making these statements. Or some media outlet to come ask my why I am not feeling guilty today.

          • It is all part of a broader “culture of victimization”.

            Goes beyond Black. Was just up front because Mr. Obama was candidate. Would have been another group if they had a candidate.

      • Danak13 says:

        Gotta weigh in here.

        1. Agree
        2. Agree
        3. Does not qualify, however, the protests of the 60’s might. Kent State.
        4. Agree
        5. Agree but you did not go far enough but the principle is there.
        6. S T R O N G L Y Agree
        7. Agree and this one was a travesty
        8. Yes, it qualifies but the list is longer
        9. Let’s see..Media, Black Panthers, Acorn…to name a few more
        10. Agree

        Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know. Apathy is the largest problem. Solve apathy…it solves most problems. Sort of like playing golf…keep your damned eye on the ball…when you do, it rarely slices or hooks and is correctable.

        Thus endeth my analogy of the day.


    • v. Holland says:

      After thinking about what you wrote last night and your post this morning, I’m beginning to understand the point you are making. I know our Federal government has overstepped the powers that the Constitution gave them, and I think that is because the states slowly gave away some of their rights in return for Federal support or a better word for money. What I’m not at all sure about is did the states have the Constitutional right to give the Federal government these powers and if not can we take them back. As far as talking about fundamentally changing the Constitution, I find that a red flag goes up and I have to say-Wait a minute-what kind of change are you talking about? Realize that something needs to be done just don’t want the cure to be worse than what we have now-I don’t doubt that the states need to take back and take away some of the rights that our growing government has grabbed but actually following the Constitution is different than fundamentally changing it-So basically-I’d have to hear what changes you are suggesting before I could make a decision and what holes you are referring too. V.

      • V.H.

        “I don’t doubt that the states need to take back and take away some of the rights that our growing government has grabbed ”

        We absolutely need to take back ALL powers the federal has “grabbed”. Otherwise the Constitution is meaningless, regardless of what it contains.

        If we later want to “give” such powers to the federal then we should do so through “amendment” with our eyes wide open. That would require public debate on the issue under consideration.

        I have tried not to get to detailed on amendments or change because this is getting ahead of the horse. As you say, we need to decide “what kind of change” we are talking about.

        That requires some hard soal searching regarding our core principles. Once we have banged those around to where we know we can defend them, then we begin to construct the solutions.

        If we later find the solutions can not achieve the core principles then either our solutions are bad or we chose the wrong principles. This is the search for the core and identification of contradictions you will see mentioned so often in previous commentary.

        As for examples of holes, I took you this far now you have to work a little. If your core is freedom and liberty then start listing all actions of the Federal Govt that you think impose upon your Freedom and Liberty. Then ask yourself how these powers given/taken by the Federal Govt.

        But this is only an exercise regarding holes in the document given your stated core values.

        You still have to VALIDATE your core values as being TRUE. That happens when you work out all the contradictions you can identify.

        And just for more thought. Fixing or revising the Constitution is not the immediate fix or all that is needed. It is in fact the LAST step of a very long and focused effort to Resurrect Our Country, that being the country founded on the principles of individual freedom and liberty.

        I’ll give you a chance to digest the series on philosophy before we chase around the tree further.

        Just let me know when you feel ready or when you have questions.

        Best Wishes and Live Free

        • v. Holland says:

          Okay, I will read and I will think but if our core principal is wrong-we may as well throw in the towel and give up.

  26. GLENN BECK, Congressman Barney Frank, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, wants to essentially roll the dice again and lower the standards on buying condos in America.

    He’s asked Freddie and Fannie to roll back those pesky financial guidelines because those rules, quote, “may be too onerous.”

    DR. THOMAS SOWELL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: But when you think about it, there is no reason for him to learn any lesson from any of this. I don’t doubt for a minute that he’s going to be re-elected. He gets credit for helping particular classes of people, and when the foreclosures come, he is able to blame somebody else.

    BECK: So, how does this end when we — when we are a bailout nation? How does this end when we don’t learn our lessons?

    SOWELL: Well, people do learn their lesson in the marketplace. Unfortunately, there’s no — there’s no incentive for a politician to learn a lesson. What Barney Frank is advocating — which is to say lowering the lending standards in order that more people can have homeownership, that’s been tried as far back as the 1920s by the Republicans and in the 1930s by the Democrats, after World War II by both parties. And in all these cases, the foreclosure rates went up, and nobody who advocated those lower lending standards was ever punished politically.

    BECK: You know, Doctor, I saw the interview with Bill O’Reilly and Barney Frank, and Barney Frank actually — I mean, he actually said, well, there wasn’t enough regulation. That was the problem. And Bill O’Reilly said, “You were the one who is saying we should lower the standards.” He said that’s absolutely untrue.

    How responsible is Barney Frank and Freddie and Fannie for what we’re going through right now?

    SOWELL: More so than probably anyone else connected with all of this. The banks did not choose to lower the lending standards. The government leaned on them. The Justice Department under Clinton threatened them with prosecution if their lending patterns didn’t suit the government. So, we had regulations. It was precisely the regulators who pushed the lower lending standards, just as Barney Frank is doing now, and that’s at the heart of the financial crisis we’re going through now.


    • LOI

      Thanks for the back up this morning. Might have to start calling you Wing Man.

      Good Morning to You

      • My pleasure sir. Wing Man makes me think about Hooters Hot wings.
        Damn, there goes my diet.

        • I was thinking more in terms of the 4×400.

          I do love owl wings though, especially basted in hot BBQ sauce.

          • JudyS.NV. says:

            Are you serious, you actually eat owl wings? How can you do that, owls are so pretty to look at. Chickens are one thing, but owls, come JAC. LOL.


            • They aint so cute when they are trying to cut your scalp off.

              Emmmmmmm. Taste like chicken. Except the Spotted ones, they have a bit of pine tree flavor that goes well with lemon.



              • JudyS.NV. says:

                Why, did one actually try and tear your scalp off? And thanks for sharing on how good they taste, didn’t need that one either. Why is it, that everything taste like chicken, I don’t get it.What do you suppose a chicken would say if it could eat humans?

              • They would say, Emmmmmm, tasts like worms.

                And yes, I have had more than one try to take my scalp.

                Also red tailed hawk and Goshawk.

                The Goshawk actually took my hard hat off on first pass. Rung my bell good. I ducked under a log to keep from losing my hair on the second pass. If he had made one more I would be able to tell you whether they also taste like chicken.

              • WOW! JAC, I didn’t know that owls could be mean like that. We have a lot of hawks around here, but never heard of any attacking anybody. We have a lot of owls too, but never heard of anything happening from them either. We also have Eagles that I’ve seen out in Washoe Valley sitting high up in the trees as we’re going down 395, a great sight to see. So, You think we’d taste like worms huh, don’t know about that, never ate a human before. My son’s been working on cadavers in his lab at school, maybe I should ask him to taste test one, huh. YUCK!.

  27. Good Morning to all!

    Finally found time to get caught up in all the fun here. I’m in the PA mountains on vacation, enjoying family and nature. When I read the name Joe Biden, it brought to a discussion with a local farmer I had just Saturday evening. There was a Joe Biden sighting in Erie Pa about a week or two ago, Biden was promoting the internet money for rural areas. I first asked Jerry (the farmer who was at the meeting) if it were true that it was a bad showing and they had to remove chairs to make it look better, and yes it was true. He then told me he asked a question as to why a company like Venustel (who I’m getting this message off through) with only 1250 customers can invest their money to get internet and cable TV to places like his (even before he has a running bathroom) (he bought an Amish farm) and the big companies with their obvious monopolies in certain areas can’t do it without tax dollars? The answer was referred to the Secretary of Agriculture(?) for whatever reason, and he danced around some fake plants and never did offer an answer to the question. This made the front page of the Erie Newspaper showing Jerry standing and asking the question. Jerry is a fine man and deserved better from these wackballs in government.

    The point of this post is to show that the idiots in D.C. are just spending money, for the sake of spending it, not to actually achieve any great “fix” to our economic problems. IMHO, I think they are doing it to make the economy worse in order to promote their Socialist agenda.

    On a lighter note, we are very early in the antler growth season for whitetails here, with about two months still to go. I saw a huge buck yesterday that was already a nice 8 point. At the rate of growth, he could double in points by September, what a nice sight it was.

    PEACE to All


    • Judy S. says:

      Morning G

      Sounds like you are having a good time. Question. What does points mean as a buck gets bigger? As for your post, I agree about the way these people dance around question, and never really give an to any question that has been asked of them.

      Have fun on you vacation.


  28. Did anybody visit a Tea Party this weekend?


    BROWN: -by high-profile conservatives. Many of the signs here blame President Obama for making the problems worse, but the people we talked to are just as upset with Republicans.

    UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #3: Even though I’ve been a Republican all my life, I don’t think I am anymore.

    Below is a complete transcript of the report from the Saturday, July 4, CBS Evening News:

    JEFF GLOR: In scores of communities tonight, people spent their Fourth of July not celebrating but protesting. Taking a cue from the 1773 Boston Tea Party, they rallied against federal tax and spending policies. Terrell Brown has more.

    TERRELL BROWN: Fireworks of a different sort this Independence Day.

    UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #1, HOLDING SIGN: I am as mad as hell.

    BROWN: Thousands of activists held rallies in cities across the country, protesting big government and big government spending.

    UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #2: Government’s way too big, taxes are way too high and this country is in trouble.


    • Judy S. says:

      Good morning LOI

      There was one in Carson City, but we totally forgot about it. They did have a showing of it on our local news channel, and the people there basically said the same thing as in the transcript you posted. My question is this. Will all these protests do any good? I really feel they won’t, because I don’t think the people who are running the government really care what we think or how we feel about about the way they are running things. I honestly feel they don’t give a rats behind about anything, except how much money they can spend and in getting this country deeper in debt.

      Have a good day.


      • Good day to you Judy,

        I agree they are out of touch & not listening. Here’s a partial response from Sen. Mark Pryor to me.

        Perhaps the biggest driver of increasing health care costs is having 46 million Americans who don’t have health coverage. Too often these individuals go without important preventative care, and when the health problems of these uninsured get bad enough, they seek care in the most expensive place to get it and the only place it is available to them – in an emergency room. Everyone who has health insurance or pays the hospital for treating them helps pay for the hospital’s burden of providing uncompensated care to the uninsured. At the same time, many individuals and employers struggle to pay the rapidly rising premiums charged for health coverage.

        Its nice he responded the next day, even with a form letter. BUT, I/we know the 46 million is a false number, used to sell their agenda. Bulldookey!!!

        • JayDickB says:

          And, how is providing better health care to them going to reduce costs? Reducing emergency room visits? I don’t think so.

        • JudyS.NV. says:

          I know exactly what you’re saying here. A couple months ago, here at work, my mother lost her balance and fell flat on her back. She just simply lost her balance after getting up too quickly. Mind you, she’ll be 87 next month. Anyway, we called 911, and within seconds, they were here, of course it helps to work a block away from the hospital too.They took her to emergency, I was with her, and they ran a series of tests on her, but found nothing. Took about 3 hours for all that, but at least we knew there wasn’t anything wrong. We had to give them her medicare card as well as her insurance so the can send them the bill. Didn’t cost one penny out of pocket for her. When she was released, there were several Hispanics in the waiting room,waiting to be called. If we didn’t use the ambulance, who knows how long we would have waited. We thought that maybe she had a mild stroke or something, because when she got up, she started wobbling, and I asked her if she was alright, she said I don’t know, I don’t think so, and wham, down she went, couldn’t catch her on time. She also has a case of Dementia, not a really bad case, but bad enough, and that’s why she comes to work with me everyday, she cannot be left alone for any amount of time. thank God I work for my brother in law, and he knows the situation, because his mother in law has a slight case of it, plus she did have a stroke a while back, and is still in a nursing home until she gets 100% better. Just thought I’d share that experience with you.

          Good day

          • Judy,

            Thanks for sharing something so personal. Glad she was OK. Most of my ER experiences have ended with a good/bad feeling. Small county, one hospital, ER will see you in good time. Anything serious they will ship you to a larger hospital. So x-ray and test at both, and the double billing. Step mom fell, small scalp cut, $600 billed to insurance for glueing it closed. And yes, they get a lot of un-insured, living on gov. assistance.

            • JudyS.NV. says:

              Well, that’s one good thing about Reno and Sparks, there are quite a few hospitals, plus we have what they call Urgent Care, don’t know if you heard anything like that or not. Just a very small version of a hospital in case you need to be seen right away, but don’t need to go to ER, or have an ambulance. The reason we called 911, was because being as to how my mom has insurance for only Calif, they only cover emergencies if you’re out of state for 6 months, don’t quite get that one, but that’s what she has, and that’s why we called 911, otherwise for what my sister said, they wouldn’t have covered it if we just drover her there. She has Health Net, and she cannot roll it over to cover her here. Like I said, it’s only a Calif. based company for what I understand. So, in order for her to get the care she needed, we couldn’t tell them she lives with us, but only visiting. Yea, I know, cheating the insurance company, right. In order to get her a regular doctor, we would have to change everything, but there are doctors who are not accepting new patients right now, so when she has to see her own doctor, we have to make a trip to Calif., which isn’t too bad, only about 3 hours away from Reno.

    • Bama dad says:

      I and members of my family certainly did attend our Shelby County tea party. The main speaker was Kevin Jackson, an individual that I was very impressed with. He was a very conservative true American that understands a lot about the problems we face as a nation. I was so impressed with him; I bought his book that night and read the whole thing by Sunday afternoon. By the way he has his own blogsite and just happens to be black.


    • My wife and I did volunteer work for the Dallas TEA Party.

      Worked the entrance gate from 7pm until closing so did not see the main speaker Michelle Malkin.

      The attendance was estimated at 37,000.

      It is nice to watch this blog but that is not action and at least the TEA Party movement is action.

      So, get involved with action somewhere.

      • Saw some great pics from the big D on Michelle’s site. You really do everything big down there! Unfortunately Wisconsin had almost a dozen tea parties rather than one large one like they did on 4-15 so the one we went to had only a few hundred there. You are right though, it felt good to be taking some action.

  29. That pesky global warming again! Causing record ice growth worldwide.
    From The Bobo Files

    In May 2009, Czech physicist Luboš Motl documented that “global sea ice remains substantially above the normal” level for the month. According to engineer Dennis Chamberland, as of 2009, glaciers are growing in: Norway, Canada, France, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile, Switzerland, Kirghizstan, and Russia. Glaciers are growing in New Zealand, including all glaciers in the Southern Alps. In the U.S., glaciers are growing in Colorado, Washington, California, Montana, and Alaska. In Antarctica in 2007, ice had grown to record levels since data collection began. Greenland’s icecap is growing at the rate of 7.2 miles a year. Science magazine reported in 2005 that the Greenland ice sheet is growing thicker.


  30. Conspiracy theories, Sarah Palin, Michael Jackson….listen to this clip of a caller to Al Sharpton’s radio show.


    And we talk of trying to educate people on what is happening to our country?? How do we even begin?

  31. Common Man, et.al.:

    CM made a comment above about the deliberate and intelligent nature of those who are imposing their views upon us.

    First, he is correct in my humble opinion and this doesn’t fall under the normal conspiracy theory but it is a well thought out, planned and executed plan of action.

    Second, I would like to add this little tid bit from one of the Air America shows last Friday.

    The discussion was the effect of Al Frankens election, finally. The general tone was that now the Dem party “would no longer have any excuses for NOT getting the progressive agenda implemented”.

    The next caller made the following statement (paraphrased because I was driving and could not write it down).

    The debate between Democrats and Republicans is over. The R’s are no longer relevant and will remain so for some time. The real “battle” is now within the Dem party. It is a war to once and for all make sure the “true progressives” take control of the party.

    These are the folks who so vehemently supported Mr. Obama and who are supporting much of the current agenda. They are the ones pushing for govt provided health care (single payer, soon to be single provider).

    This is the reality of what we are dealing with.

    Now, does anyone see an opportunity here?


  32. Now for another related question for all to consider.

    When USW started this site he was searching for answers to whether the Republican party was lost and whether he should join the Libertarian party or if another party was the right way to go.

    Aside from the discussions that any party will validate the evil of govt (since your gone BF thought I would add that for you)the question is even more relavent today.

    Many months ago I argued it made more sense to try and take over an established party than to create one from scratch. I suggested the Elephant lunch because the Donkey lunch was just to far out in left field.

    I am no longer so sure this is the correct approach. It seems the R’s are trying to morph into whatever they think is needed to win election. What a solid way to stand on principles don’t you think?

    “Yea, we have principles. Just tell us what you want them to be and we will have them!”

    I am also finding that the existing power structure within the Elephant Club may be impossible to displace.

    I am starting to see movement in the population that may lend itself to a NEW third party. This will especially be true if the “true progressives” finally come out of the closet and wage full war for control of the Donkey Club.

    So what do you all think? Is it time to form a VDLG party rather than just a “coalition”? I am curious as to how some may be thinking on this issue today.

    Best Wishes

    • JAC;

      125% yes. Not sure how but I think it is a viable and absolute must. Too many bad apples in either barrel to worry about salvaging the good ones; besides the public will take care of those that govern accordingly.

      It won’t be easy simply because it is a “start-up”, but I think public support can be gained given the number of folks out there now looking for an alternative.

      We may not win, but like Perot we can influence.

      We need a common platform that people can get their arms around. A lot of those have been discussed on this site. I think we need to start at the local levels much like MadMom did and gain some footing.

      Maybe we advertise for representing representatives, I’m not sure. The key is to find a person(s) that truely want to make a difference verses garnering power and influence.

      More to come later

    • JAC,

      I think a split is possible from the Dem’s and Rep’s both. There were 44 Dem’s who voted against Cap & Trade. The Rep’s seem lost, looking for direction. The Blue Dog Dem’s could break from the liberals, and attract Rep’s who support fiscal conservatives. So a third party formed from the two existing ones.

      Question is, will that work? My bias says voters are tired of the parties,
      and are going to look harder for independents. So a party promising fiscal conservatives and as small a government as practical would attract followers. The Tea Party movement might even merge.

    • v. Holland says:

      Wow, I just don’t know-I realize that the republican party isn’t perfect and I really would like some changes and a new party might be great but with the liberal admin. we have right now, pushing through crap as quickly as possible, I really want the republicans to take seats in 2010 to help counter some of the stuff being done, voting for another party right now-just seems like a way of helping the dems succeed.

      • V – the timing of all of this is also a concern for me. I do believe we need to balance Washington in 2010 or else we won’t even recognize this country – I’m even concerned about waiting that long really.

        But we also need to look further down the road and that is where I see a third party coming into play, as in 2012.

        “JAC in 2012”

    • JAC,

      I’m with you in now leaning towards looking to a third party option; can’t believe I’ve come this far! I’ve attended two tea parties so far and the frustration is with all politicians so I think the VDLG party would have a lot of support immediately.

      Obama has chosen to govern from the radical left, which has surprised those that bought into his moderate campaign language.

      The big question for me is how? The existing parties have structure and we know how to operate within that structure by supporting and financial contributions to the candidates we most agree with. How do we start this VDLG movement?

  33. v. Holland says:

    I would really like to order a couple of those T-Shirts-any entrepreneurs who can help me out here.

    • VH, I forgot to ask earlier of which T Shirts are you referring?

      And Yes we do need some T’s pretty darn soon.

      So anyone out there got skills and equip. or connections?

      • v. Holland says:

        Just A Citizen said
        July 6, 2009 at 1:14 pm

        1.So how do you underestimate the severity of the “worst economy since the Great Depression”?

        You fail to recognize that your actions will result in an economy worse than the “Great Depression”!

        Alan F. said
        July 7, 2009 at 3:12 am

        JAC, that needs to be on a T-shirt.

        We got something here for another T shirt Alan.

        Need to boil down to something simple.

        2.Maybe two pictures of an Ass and Elephant with Junkie and Drunk on thier chest. Each point at the other with “It’s his fault”

  34. Something new from the left. Personally, I am considering becoming a meataterian.

    Meatless Mondays: Do Something Good for the Earth and Your Health


    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Anyone who chooses not to eat meat for personal/health reasons is ok in my book.

      Anyone who chooses not to eat meat because they want to “do something good for the earth” is delusional.

      As I said in a comment above,…

      If God hadn’t intended for Man to eat meat, he wouldn’t have made meat taste so darn good! 🙂

      • I have no problem with people who choose not to eat meat. I do think they are missing a few screws, but that’s their business.

        And isn’t it great how combining meats make them even better? Bacon wrapped chicken, filet minion, etc…

        Adult beverage time, may hit a golf ball as well.

        • Judy S. says:

          Never had bacon wrapped chicken before. Have any of you ever been to a Ruth’s Chris steakhouse before? Talk about good tasting meat, YUMMMM! We went to one a few years ago in San Diego when we went there to see our son off for his second tour of Iraq. Anyway, the steak is so think and juicy, and as tender as can be, it’s everything Hannity says it is.

      • Peter and all those responding to the meat issue:

        I have since the age of 9 been at the Top of the Food Chain as the ultimate preditor. I eat what I harvest and I harvest what I eat.

        Beef is good, but try some fresh venison, rabbit, pheasant and almost any kind of fish critter.

        Hunt them, harvest them and feed the family.

        • Judy S. says:

          Ron White once said, his friend once said to him, that cow flatulence is ruining the environment, poisoning the the air and the ozone layer, what are you doing about it? Ron White said, I’m eating the cow.

  35. Judy S. says:

    Question. Why do we really need to have any party’s at all? I guess for as long as I can remember, yea, I know,goes way back when, I’ve always wondered why we need to have any political party’s and not just go by the best people who run, and just vote that way. How often do you see when the two parties actually agree on anything anyway? Not very. The Dems call Repubs liars and such, and Visa-Versa. I really get sick of listening to all the bickering between the two parties. If one says the sky is blue, you got an argument. If the other side says, grass is green, you got an argument. I think that’s why I get so turned off by politics because of all the cattawalling that goes on. They all say they going to be the best man or woman for the job because they are going to work for you, then turn around and say, GOTCHA! really had you people fooled didn’t I. Forget the Elephant and Donkey and come up with something different, say like the Elephonkey or the Donkaphant. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. But seriously, it is time for a change.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Most of the founders of this country were vehemently against political parties. In spite of this, the parties took over very shortly after the government came into existence.

      • Judy S. says:

        Too bad they went ahead with the party issue when the government came in. Should have stuck with the way it was. I used to be Democrat, but then switched over to Republican, now I’m beginning to wonder if either one is any good anymore. I just hope the Republicans get some back bone and start rising back up again, and get with it. They have a long hard fight, but I think, maybe, hopefully, they will recover when the time comes if not sooner. At least I hope they do.

        • Judy my dear:

          “They have a long hard fight, but I think, maybe, hopefully, they will recover when the time comes if not sooner. At least I hope they do.”

          I see THREE “they” and no me or I or even we in your statement except “I think” and “I hope.”

          Don’t mean to be harsh but perhaps that is why “we” have a problem.

          • Judy S. says:

            Hey JAC, sorry, but that’s how I feel.

            • You are not the only one who is frustrated and worn out by all this. And I do in fact understand and sypathize. But the question is “what will you contribute towards winning back your freedom?”

              You can not expect “they” to take care of your “hopes”. You need to stand up and be counted in some way.

              Your writing is quite eloquent and fluid. Perhaps some letter writing might be your piece of cake?

              We can all think and hope but without action we will be thinking and hoping our way into slavery.

              • Judy S. says:

                JAC, thank you for the compliment on my writing, and I will think about what you said. In fact, my son said the same thing you did. He said I should write letters to Obama telling him what I and others feel about the way they are running this country. It’s like what Ronald Reagan said in his last speech, that just happens to be in my son’s book about collections of historical documents. RR said that WE the People are the drivers, and government is the car, and WE decide where it goes. There is a lot more of what he said, but he also talks about the trip that he and Nancy took to Russia. Again, I will think real hard about what you said, just going to be hard in figuring out how to word it. My son said, if I get good enough, he can see in a 100 years from now how those letters would be in kids school books written by Judy Sabatini. Wouldn’t that be something?

              • Yes it would.

                But those letters need to be sent to the people, not Obama or any other elected official.

                It is the people that need to be won over.

                The key point is that it is something you could do to contribute while meeting your family needs.

                The feeling you will get from participating:


          • Mike M. Houston Texas says:

            I think we should start a third. We should call it “The common sense party”. Our core values revolve around common sense. We dont pay $500 bucks for a toilet seat. If we don’t have 47 Trillion dollars in the bank we damn sure dont spend it. We don’t cow down to any minority groups. Spock said it best “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or 1”.

            Just think – Just a Citizen – is running for President. If you cant vote for common sense then we should find a way to help you get some common sense either that or the laws of nature will catch up with you. Govt is small and gives back the power.

            Vote for Mike M and JAC running on common sense.

            • Mike;

              Greatly appreciate your enthusiasum, but I suggest “The American Party”. It touts liberty, moral values, common sense and rightous tranquility.

              See posts below.


      • Peter:

        I would love to see the end of political parties but the right of folks to associate and support who they want would kind of go against the freedom and liberty principle.

        In order to make such a thing happen would require Constitutional Amendment. One that would also specify how elections for federal and state offices would be conducted. The prohibition of parties and the specification of election methods could make it very hard for parties to form.

        Or perhaps we codify the ease of forming parties, thus assuring greater dilution.

        Or we just take away all the power they seek, which is my personal favorite.

        • JAC

          WE are not going to see the abolishment of the two parites, they are in the process of evolution to a determined end; at least on the leftist side. The Repubs are flalling in the wind like an unchecked sail. That, however could assist us in our effort to start a third party, ‘influencial voice’.

          Starting a third party, in the formal sense, could very well be fruitless, but starting a movement has wheels. A movement gains ground and influences change, and that change drives results.

          As you indicated earlier the Repubs are flailing in the wind, trying to get some kind of foothold. Maybe the people can initiate influence and invoke change and mindset.

          I really believe that some ‘representatives’ just need a strong enough voice to cling too in order to set a true direction. Let’s face it the majority of those holding seats at this point in time don’t know what to say or how to act on their own; they need ‘handlers’ to tell them.

          Let’s help them listen to another voice, and one that can provide mutually beneficial guidence.

          Play our cards right and we accomplish your last statement – indirectly.


  36. Another consideration regarding parties, organizing and strategies.

    We are going to need a large collection of “elites” and “intellectuals” and “business/community leaders” on our side. And I don’t mean just to get their face on the TV, I mean trully on our side.

    It is this group that will push the total numbers over the top in our favor. It is this group that will give street credibility to our message and to the future education de-programing programs required.

    In the beginning we don’t need them to speak, just support. Later we will need them to speak. If they start out first it will look like an established polytickshun takeover.

  37. OK everyone:

    I just got this in my email from a friend so thought I would share.


    04:05:06 07-08-09


    I am glad some folks out there are keeping track of the really important stuff. I would have missed that one all together.

    I would like to point out that this is only true when using military time. Other wise we will experience the same event at 4 am and again at 4 pm. Could that be a time warp?

    Sorry, couldn’t resist some fun there.
    Best Wishes to All

    • Judy S. says:

      Gotta have some fun in there once in a while, don’t ya think. But really, if you think about it, it’s kind of cool that they go in sequence like that. Okay, now, back to business.

    • I think that would be a temporal anomaly 😉

    • If i got it right – it;ll work for the next 5 years til 09:10:11 12/13/14 LOL

    • Black Flag says:

      Such a great mystery of numbers where no mystery exists – yet, where great mystery of numbers exists, no one cares.


  38. All;

    We have a great collection of minds here, let’s use them. I am not sure how all of this is going to pan out, but starting is a good thing.

    I will initially create and host a Web site dedicated to getting the word out. Not sure yet how it will look or the content, but I am a firm believer in the “Story Board” theory as an initiating device to get ideas flowing.

    What are our core principles?
    What do we want to accomplish? What are we willing to accept as an alternative?
    How should we start and with whom?
    Can we become an influencial lobbiest like institution?
    Who should we contact to assist us?
    Can we petition our current representatives to assist us?
    How are we going to financially support this effort?
    Does anyone have influence with the media, local or national?
    What about Beck and others as catalyst’s for our cause?
    Do we start at the local or go straight to the top and petition both parties as an alternative or at least a voice they need to accept?

    Berry got the word out using the interent and a “social” group called ‘Acorn’ may be we can use the same style; rightously though.

    Maybe we should start with the our local Tea Parties and the people that organized them? I think the key here is volume of voices, the more the merrier.

    We need to develop a ‘Core Philosopy’ based upon sound principles and morals, stearing away form controversial topics in order to avoid being demed a radical group.

    Maybe BF, JAC D13 and others can draw up a ‘charter’

    I think we also need to recruit National Organizations that believe as we do, ie NRA, BBB, Health Care organizations, local business organizations, and any others that those of you out there think support our beliefs.

    Contact our congressmen and women and ask for their support – at least that puts them in a precarious position, and forces them to at least think about the ramifications of rejection; use their natural self interest as a catalyst to spark assistance.

    I’m kind of rambling here to some degree, but when one ‘Story Boards’ no ideas are bad ones; at least initially.

    As I said earlier I will develop, post and host the Web site. It will help get the word out.

    Everybody, lets brain storm this one and come up with a plan.


    • CM:

      Don’t know if you realize this but that was the purpose of the Philosophy series.

      To get everyone engaged in the first item on your list.

      If we do not share that, we share nothing of true import.

      By the way, I have a site already, but have not put anything there. Its purpose was to provide a clearing house for information needed to carry out the new revolution, the Resurrection of America.

      I will discuss later why I think it will be the right place to put the answers once we have them.

      USW is pursuing the same goal as you and I think you will find him roaring to go once back from Vacation.

      One thing has changed since I started on my quest. There are now many other organizations, groups and individuals trying to do something. We will have to reach out to them pretty soon or they will wander in different directions. Of course they may not share our principles and then they should do as they feel necessary.

      I had originally advised some here to think of VDLG as a COALITION not a party. A powerful group of like minded patriots dedicated to resurrection of our constitutional republic and the principles of individual freedom and liberty. As a coalition we can support any polytickshun aka representing representative we deem consistent with our mission. This is similar to GOOOH but different in mechanics and intent. We want people to support our platform of reform. A coalition, if successful may evolve into a party and it may have to in order to ultimately succeed. Because you see the VDLG party would be like no other in history.

      Its goal would be to eliminate the very power that political parties strive to capture and use for what they deem as the good of man. Our party’s goal will be to make its usefulness, useless.

      That poses a very special problem when it comes to fighting political battles.

      Sorry, I am now rambling. I think perhaps it would be good if I put some of this together in a guest piece.

      You have a good list CM and in keeping with the purpose of story boarding and brainstorming, now is not the time to be critical but to put all ideas on the table.

      Live Free My Friend

      • JAC

        Yes, I understand. I think we just need to get things moving. There is an old saying: “It’s hard to get an elephant (no reference to a party) to tap-dance, but once you get him started you need to get out of the way”.

        Starting is the hardest because it takes a great deal of energy to get things moving, but as Einstien said ” An object in motion…”

        We need to rally the troops to voice their thoughts and ideas on how to start. I suggest we coordinate with the Tea Paties, since that is rolling, then use the internet to spread the word more effectively. Tie USW’s and others Blog’s and Web sites to one started here.

        At the same time start local groups focusing on growth and exposure. Organization is the key around a common platform, maybe “We the People” supported by basic fundamental principals.

        MadMom can assist us in how to go about addressing our ‘representatives’ and where to focus our efforts.

        IN these past weeks I have witnessed a great deal of passion and moxy from those that post, and everyone seems to have a common desire to act. I truely believe if we focus that passion and moxy we can get the elephant moving. Next thing you know we will all be dancing along with him.

        Let’s have a night or two dedicated to folks expressing their ideas and what our principals and platform should be. From that we can organize a campaign.

        YOur thoughts????


    • Black Flag says:

      This is my prediction:

      By the time you -truthfully- answer 1/2/3/4 of your questions, you will find that you cannot create 5 thru to the end.

      If you still attempt, you will pervert the answers to your 1/2/3/4. Thus, whatever is created by 5 thru end will and can only end in disaster.

  39. Judy S. says:

    Has anyone here ever been to a web site call Docs4patientcare.org. My son, the pre-med student has been there several times, and he said that they are 100% against socialized health care. I have to admit, I haven’t been there yet, keep forgetting about really. I am going to go there now and check it out. Just thought I’d share this with everybody in case you are interested.

  40. Judy S. says:

    JAC, this is in response to your 9:15 response to me. Okay, I see what you’re saying, guess I misunderstood what you meant about writing letters. The idea of writing those would be alright, but it’s getting started on what to say and how to say it, where to begin, you know. Maybe you can give me some ideas there on how to get started. When it comes to something like that, I haven’t got a clue, never done anything like before, and this would be the first time for something like that for me. Would you be willing to give me a few pointers, or just point me in the right direction to help me get started. My son is a great writer, maybe I can have him give me some pointers to help in that direction too. Anything or anyone will be of useful help on that, and I would be forever grateful and appreciative of it. You know JAC, I think you lit a fire under me here, and it is my hope that I don’t let anyone down. I want to be a part of this new party, and as involved as much as I can be. Just don’t expect miracles, please. Give me some time to do what I can, when I can, I still have a job, house and mother to take care of first, that is my top priority.

    Thank You

    • Your priorities are as they should be and as I wish they were for all Americans.

      When the time comes I guarantee you that you will have all the help you need. I happen to think you don’t need as much as you think.

      Noticed you said you lived near a hospital. My Mom worked at St. Maries for about 30 years. I was born in Washoe Med. Always loved that park in front of the hospital. We used to play there as kids when folks would take us to town. Then go fishing on the Truckee near there.

      Have a great evening Judy. Get some rest and talk to you tomorrow.

      • Judy S. says:

        JAC, I’m sure you won’t read or see this until the morning, so I’m answering you tonight. You said you don’t think I’ll need as much help as I think. I don’t know JAC, when it comes to something like that,that seems like a pretty big task, and to try and come up with the right words won’t be easy. But like yoy said, I guess when the time comes, I should be able to come up with something. I’ll start thinking about it now, and see what kind of thoughts come to mind.

        No, I didn’t say I live by a hospital, I work only a block away from one. The old Washoe Med, which is now called Renown Medical Center. They changed the name a couple years ago, why, you got me there. I guess they didn’t like the name Washoe Med anymore, and decided to change it, thanks to the city council. You know where Mill Street is? Well, our lab is one block west from there, which is right done the street from the park. By the way, the parks name is Pickett Park in case you forgot. Now you can go rafting down the Truckee, they really fixed that area up. In fact, now you can also go white water rapids rafting there. They’re not very big rapids, but enough to get the feel of it. No, we haven’t done anything like that, don’t know if I want too, Can’t swim, and with my luck, I’d go tooling down and hit a big rock or something. Water’s not my thing, except to take a shower in everyday. If you read any of those chats I had with BF about my drowning experience, you’d know the reason why I don’t go in too deep of water. So, that’s about it. If there’s anything else you want to know what they’re doing around town, I’ll do my best to answer.

        So, until the next time my friend, take care.


  41. Judy S. says:

    Well, I’m out for the night, Hope all has a good night, and will catch you all on the flip side.

    Good Night


  42. While all of us ponder on what is becoming of “America” and how we can fix it – we are all focusing on the wrong thing. I have been absent from the blog for some time because I have been in deep self-assessment of my beliefs. Mr. Flag, Mr. Weapon, Mr. Citizen and many others on the site have challenged my most basic beliefs. You have challenged the core of who I am. At first, I didn’t like it. But I couldn’t quit thinking about it. It has consumed me. I have asked myself again and again over the past several months several questions that all revolve around one single theme – what do I actually believe?

    First, a little background on me. I was raised in a Christian household, was “saved” as a kid but didn’t really know what it meant. I haven’t lived a very Christ-like life but I’ve lived what I deem to be a pretty good one. I’m nice, I help people, and I try to be a good dad and husband; however, I have my own personal faults just like everyone else. However, something in my life has always been missing and you all have helped me to search for it in earnest.

    I have found my answer. I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. I believe he died on the cross to redeem my sins and cleanse my spirit, so that if I believe on him I may have enduring life beyond this one. I know what you all are saying to yourselves right now – religious whack job, religion is crap, corrupted by mankind, etc., etc.

    Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t say I was religious, I’m only saying I have found my moral law. My most basic definition of right and wrong. I can now answer myself when I ask what is right and what is wrong, what is evil and what is good. Honestly, I think that man’s religion is wrong in general. Just another thing we as a species have screwed up.

    Every one of us has an evil and selfish nature – Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, etc. I challenge you to prove otherwise. If this were not the case, we would not have had over 14,000 wars over the past 5,000 years with only the equivalent of 2 years of peace in all that time. Mankind would have found a way to peacefully rule itself by now if we all were inherently “good”. We are not. We are inherently “bad”.

    Ever since Adam and Eve sinned against God, we have been on our own and separate from Him. And yes, I believe in Creationism and not the fact that we crawled out of some sludge pile a million years ago.

    This pertains to my thinking regarding “America” directly. We, as mankind, are focused on the wrong thing, especially in America. It is not our leaders that need to be fixed; it is our own moral corruption in this country that is our downfall. We have fallen into debauchery, homosexualism, perversion, sexual acceptance, and away from the teachings of Christ which revolve around living your life in a way that follows Christ’s teachings – giving to others, helping others, avoiding temptations that include wealth, sex, etc.

    Therefore, America is destined to fail and will fail without a spiritual awakening of our people. Our complete removal of support from God’s chosen country, Israel, was the final nail in our coffin. Biblical prophecy is happening before our very eyes with Israel as the main event, and America fits into this prophecy nicely. We aren’t even mentioned. It is my belief that we aren’t mentioned as a nation because at that time we don’t have enough of a national existence to even be noted. America will be just another aspect of the global government that will be headed by the European Union (revived Roman Empire).

    I probably won’t write much more on the blog as my interests now lay outside of America’s political fall. I have turned my attention to my and my family’s ultimate salvation and have put my trust in my Lord. God Bless You. Roper

  43. Continued for Ray:

    Paula Jones: She accuses him of lewd conduct, he tries to get it bumped until he’s no longer president, the court says “sorry Charlie” wherein it’s “game on”. Proven true but not that there were any “damages” from seeing his scary willy, he lies on the stand which is what actually gets him into hot water but still ends up settling out of court for $850,000.00 and gets the bar to suspend him for 5 years.

    Gennifer Flowers: He says no to his impression of “the beast with two backs” with her in a costarring roll. She produces secret recorded tapes to which the MAIN STREAM MEDIA pitches “they might be doctored” while he’s busy apologizing for what the ”might be doctored” tape has him saying about Mario Cuomo. While busy denying another schtoop-a-polooza he attended with Kathleen Willey in another presidential deposition, Bill “hump-a hump-a burnin love” Clinton pulls a 180 and admits that he had sex with Ms Flowers.

    Whitewater: Whitewater Development Corporation and its owners were investigated, you bet. Mr and Mrs Bill were partners in that venture with James and Susan McDougal, you bet. The results (if wrong please just say so as it its off of Wiki) of the investigation:

    “Ultimately the Clintons were never charged, but 14 other persons were convicted of more than 40 crimes, including a sitting Governor who was removed from office.

    * Jim Guy Tucker: Governor of Arkansas at the time, removed from office (fraud, 3 counts)
    * John Haley: attorney for Jim Guy Tucker (tax fraud)
    * William J. Marks Sr.: Jim Guy Tucker business partner (conspiracy)
    * Stephen Smith (Whitewater): former Governor Clinton aide (conspiracy to misapply funds). Bill Clinton pardoned.
    * Webster Hubbell: Clinton political supporter; Rose Law Firm partner (embezzlement, fraud)
    * Jim McDougal: banker, Clinton political supporter: (18 felonies, varied)
    * Susan McDougal: Clinton political supporter (multiple fraud) Bill Clinton pardoned.
    * David Hale: banker, self proclaimed Clinton political supporter: (conspiracy, fraud)
    * Neal Ainley: Perry County Bank president (embezzled bank funds for Clinton campaign)
    * Chris Wade: Whitewater real estate broker (multiple loan fraud) Bill Clinton pardoned.
    * Larry Kuca: Madison real estate agent (multiple loan fraud)
    * Robert W. Palmer: Madison appraiser (conspiracy). Bill Clinton pardoned.

    * John Latham: Madison Bank CEO (bank fraud)
    * Eugene Fitzhugh: Whitewater defendant (multiple bribery)
    * Charles Matthews (Whitewater): Whitewater defendant (bribery)”

    Vince Foster: So you would not have seen a business and social friend Of the Clintons, who is a part of the administration at the time, having done himself in as nothing more than a side note? They had to look at it in depth, had they not? There was bugger all known of that tangent of side effect for that class of antidepressant in the early 90’s ergo, no reason to NOT investigate in depth. Mr Foster wasn’t working at Burger King.

    Troopergate: Is your first point! WTG! Kudos! This one was a definite case of media bias spun from thin air and trying to ride the earlier factual sexual adventures of Bill “hump-a hump-a burnin love” Clinton.

    Food: See Oprah.

    Roger Clinton(ripped from Wiki): “While future president Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas, Roger pleaded guilty to cocaine distribution in 1984 and served one year of a two-year sentence in return for testifying against a number of other defendants. Subsequently, his brother granted him a pardon amongst the list of pardons issued on January 19, 2001. Roger also submitted six names for his half-brother to pardon, most of them conspirators in his drug dealings. The president reportedly turned all of Roger’s recommendations down.” So this was reported and that’s shocking because? A year for that level of distro here in Canada, the land of minimal charges, even with turning evidence for the prosecution is pretty the lowest of lowballs. To warrant such he’d have had to turn over someone major after which witness protection would have been an absolute must and he’d never have been mentioned again until the body was identified regardless of who his brother “was”.

    Aside from the Troopergate thing, which IS EXACTLY the type of idiotic journalism we’ve seen Sarah Palin wading through, there’s nothing to bitch about here. Might as well have a written apology to Nixon printed in all the papers while you’re at it if it’s merely about air time and nothing to do with content or context.

    An exercise then: Write specific instances of her “wrong doings and proven results” to match those of Bill Clinton’s as that’s the comparison you’ve chosen. Fire away Ray.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Alan – Now you are making me chase you around to different threads? What the…..?

      As I recall you wanted to an example of someone who has been investigated more than Palin (or something stupid to that effect). I offered you Clinton – by your research I think you have shown me to be correct no? 🙂

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