Tonight I was able to catch back up and read a lot of the comments of the last couple of days. I was not surprised to find that there were quite a few that disagreed with me on several different areas. D13 took me to task a bit (at least I think so, he didn’t say my name, but I got the distinct impression that he was talking about me along with others). I was also accused of felony possession of kool-aid with intent to distribute by TexasChem. Finally, I was under fire from G.A. Rowe, but then again, he and I often disagree on minor things while agreeing on major ones. All three offered up that I was wrong. And I will take that criticism. I don’t mind a bit. For goodness sake that is what I am here for! Now let me say up front that I don’t take offense to a single one of these attacks on my positions…
Quite the contrary…. I love that they have challenged me on my thoughts. Ladies and Gentlemen, I did not start writing this blog with the intent of forcing my will on anyone. I started this blog with the intention of providing a place where differing opinions can come and debate the issues respectfully. I do my part. I find topics that I think will interest people. I write my opinions. Then when I am finished I find a way to insert an anti-Pelosi comment into the article and hit “publish” (had to add that for you Ray!). I then wait for the responses. And I get shellacked by at least one person on every single article I write. Which is good. I have thick skin. Tonight I decided that I would take a moment to debate a couple of those points very publicly. Specifically, the comments from D13 and TexasChem. Two people who I respect immensely. Because let’s face it, who isn’t itching to take on two Texas boys on the same day. It is a good test of one’s mettle.
Let me start with TexasChem. I went up on my soap box the other day after letting John Adams fire me up. I railed about freedom and liberty. I railed about treating every person equally and respecting the rights of groups that we don’t agree with. And I was met head on by TC, who took offense to my defense of even muslims and homosexuals. His comments started with:
Please explain to me your reasoning behind your belief that the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle a homosexual couple to the same rights as a heterosexual couple. It seems to me to be a serious case of conflicting interests. Homosexuality by its very definition goes AGAINST the laws of nature…that is why I have never understood the whole gay pride thing. What is prideful in having a lifestyle that doesn’t allow for the continuation of our species? DUH USW! I mean a really BIG DUH! Get off the koolaid. Just say NO!
I do beieve that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.However, I also believe that with the option of choice they can give up those rights through their choice of poor/wrong/bad decisions.EXAMPLE: Thieves, murderers, rapists, pedophiles etc.
TC, I am disappointed to hear this from you. I do understand your reasoning when you make the argument that homosexuality goes against the laws of nature in that it can not further the species. I don’t agree at all, but I see your argument. Let me discuss that continuation of the species aspect first. To accept your position would be to also accept the position that my wife and I should not be allowed to marry and love each other in a committed relationship should one of us be sterile and unable to bear children. To accept your position would be to accept that any form of sexual contact not happening for the purpose of procreation is against the laws of nature. All contraceptives are against the laws of nature. You fall into the false belief that because of something as small as their sexual orientation, they are less of a person, that they are less entitled to the rights and freedoms endowed to every man. These are their RIGHTS. Endowed upon them by their Creator. Who in the hell are you do decide that you have the power to strip them of those rights? Do you overrule the Creator?
Let me go a step further, are you also claiming then, that polygamy is true to the laws of nature? After all, animals have multiple mates. And what is more applicable to this law of nature you claim to see than a man of means procreating and continuing the species with as many women and subsequent children as he can support? Do you see the contradiction here? The same law of nature you claim makes homosexuality wrong, makes polygamy right. Yet christianity frowns upon both.
I take you back to the Adam’s quote that I listed: It stands on this principle: that the meanest, and the lowest of people ARE, by the unalterable and indefeasible laws of god and nature as well entitled to the benefit of the air to breath, light to see, food to eat, and clothes to wear as the nobles or the king! THAT is LIBERTY. That is not me saying that homosexuals are the lowest among us, as I hope everyone realizes. But the second that you feel, in your heart TexasChem, that homosexuals are not entitled to the very same rights and liberties that every one of us, created by whomever we believe in, are entitled to, you sir have lost the very spirit of America, and have also failed to live as God and Jesus have asked all christians to live, tolerant and loving of ALL men, regardless of their shortcomings. If you believe that homosexuals are lacking in the spirit, then remember that Jesus himself said “Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven” (Matthew 5:3). Would you have me believe that Jesus would offer them the kingdom of heaven, yet deny them the same rights and liberties of every other man on earth? Read that statement from Matthew 5:3 again and then ask yourself how you can even ask that first question: Please explain to me your reasoning behind your belief that the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle a homosexual couple to the same rights as a heterosexual couple.
This is America. If you really believe in the liberty that it stands for, then you must support that ALL are entitled to it. If you really believe that we were all endowed with certain inalienable rights, then you must support that ALL are endowed with them. Anything less is un-American. Anything less is a slap in the face of the very principles and concepts that our founders put into place. Do not fall into the trap of believing that because they have a different sexual orientation, that they are less of a person than you or I. That they are entitled to any less freedom or liberty than you or I. That for ANY reason that they should have rights denied to them that are granted to others. To do so would be to say that the rights endowed by the creator can be stripped from any person who does not fit a specific mold that you approve of, and eventually stripped from you.
That being said, you are correct that some people can forfeit those rights by the choices that they make. Each of the examples that you listed were criminal activities. And criminal activities in a country of law will result in a forfeiture of rights and liberties. But homosexuals are not breaking the law. They are doing no harm to you or anyone else for that matter. They are merely people who have formed a bond of love that is different than the bond you would form. To claim that they should forfeit any rights for that choice would be awful hypocritical in today’s world. For I cannot name a single person who has not broken at least one of the ten commandments at some point (which it should be noted does not include thought shalt not be a homosexual). Should you have forfeited your rights the second that you went against one of the ten rules brought down from the mountain? Take a look back at the passages that condemn homosexuality in the bible. Care to hear a list of what else that section of the bible lists as abominations or reasons to be put to death?
The koolaid has been passed around much more than I thought amongst you gentlemen. I hear from a lot of you on this blog that we as a society should be tolerant of others. In your endeavors to be moraly just you are placing yourselves in the path of an out of control freight train. HINT:”ISLAM”
My friend, it is not Kool-Aid that has been passed around. It is the idea of rights for all, liberty for all, and freedom for all. And you either believe that it is for ALL, or you believe that it is for only those that believe what you believe. No sir, I do not place myself in front of an out of control train. There are aspects of Islam that I detest and which I will not tolerate. But the right to practice the religion? Insane.
My friend, your statement “In your endeavors to be moraly just”, lies the heart of the matter. I will always, always, each and every single time, in every single situation endeavor to be morally just. To do otherwise would go against the very essence of who I am and what I believe. Any man that does not always endeavor to be morally just holds no place of honor in an America as we wish it to be. If we break it down to your christian perspective, any man who does not endeavor to always be morally just will have no place in the Kingdom of Heaven. I may not always get it right, but I can assure you that I will always endeavor to get there in a morally just manner. Can you give me a single reason why I should abandon this principle?
I on the other hand have a reasonable right of self-preservation that supersedes the principle of tolerance and can vividly see the harm coming from this derailment.I will continue to show others evidence of its destructive force.
Let me begin by making a very BF type of statement, and then I will attempt to explain it. You said “a reasonable right of self-preservation that supersedes the principle of tolerance”. That, brother, is the very essence of the difference between your stance and mine. If tolerance is to be abandoned at the first sign of chaos, then I submit to you that it is not a principle for you in the first place. It is nothing more than something you aspire to have.
But think about your statement as you made it. IF there is an imminent danger or threat being posed by someone towards you, it is not tolerance to accept it and no principle applies here. No one has asked you to tolerate those who wish to harm you. No one has asked you to ignore those that wish to harm you. Self preservation demands that you do no such thing! However, your hatred for ALL muslims is vastly off target. You can quote passages of the Qur’an all day along with your interpretations of what they mean and your versions of what their religion is espousing. And trust me, brother, I can quote passages from the Bible all day that will make Christianity seem just as barbaric and intolerant as anything you have ever read. Please don’t doubt me on this. I can quote bible and verse on both holy books. And taking the words from either is not flattering.
What you cannot do is lay any claim to having lived among them, having truly gotten to know them. That is a claim that I can make. And I know that you cannot make that claim because I have never, ever known anyone who has gotten to know them, who spent enough time with them to really know them, who feels the way that you do about the entire religion. You attempt to paint them as an entire religion that is hell bent on killing christians and any other non-believers. If that were the case, my friend, the war was lost a long, long time ago. If all muslims are what you claim, then they outnumber Americans 4 to 1. And they don’t need to recruit to take us down. They don’t need to use religion to indoctrinate anyone. There are enough muslims in the world that if they intend to take down the great Satan because all Americans are evil and all muslims hate us, we are screwed, and were a long time before now.
But that hasn’t happened. And you know why? Because the way that you portray Islam is not how it is practiced by the vast majority of those who follow it. Does the muslim faith have more extremists who hate America and christians as a percentage of the overall than christians? I believe it does. I think about 10%-15% of muslims feel that way. And probably 5%-10% of christians feel that way about muslims. But I refuse to punish the 85% of muslims who don’t feel that way any more than I would punish the 90% of christians who don’t feel that way.
We the American people have tolerated the intolerant to the point that our society is now in jeopardy from our just nature. Stop drinking the koolaid please, for our childrens and grandchildrens sake if not for your own.
Our society is not in jeopardy because of our “just nature”. Our society is in jeopardy because of those among us who do not live by that principle of being morally just. You ignore the fact that for nearly 2 centuries muslims didn’t care a bit about America, the same as you don’t care a bit about the person who walks a dog every day past your house. But the second that person starts having that dog take a dump on your lawn each morning, you will find that you care quite a bit about that person.
You are right, my friend, to oppose the recruiting conference in Chicago that is a group with clear terrorist ties attempting to recruit members right here in our country. You may even be right, if that school in Virginia is up to no good, to oppose their expansion or wish to remove them from our soil. When a person or group crosses the line, no one has ever asked you to tolerate them. But the second that you decide that your judgement applies to all muslims, you are the one who has crossed the line. It would make you no better than those who thought slaves were less than a person, that women should have no right to vote, or that human rights should be denied to all hispanics because there are some that break the law.
I know you are better than this. I know that this is nothing more than frustration and fear creeping up on you and causing you to act without fully considering the consequences of what you are saying. TC, you are a good and moral person. I can see this about you in the things you post here. Step back from the ledge brother. We must never allow fear of the few to cloud our judgement of the entirety. More important, we must never allow fear to cause us to cast aside our morals and principles. Those morals and principles are what make this country great.