Tuesday Night Open Mic for August 4, 2009

guest-commentaryHere we are at another Tuesday night open mic. I was looking through the different news sites that I regularly peruse and I found some interesting stuff out there. I always feel so out of the loop when I am out of town. Being down here with my gram is difficult because I don’t have the regular internet access that I would normally have. I am shocked that she had internet access at all! So things move slow and it becomes a bit of a pain to look stuff up and navigate the way I am used to doing. But I have to admit the long loading time I endured on the first topic was well worth the wait to read about politicians being booed and jeered by their constituents. Remember, with these open mic nights, any or all of you can submit topics by simply talking about them in a new comment. I want to make sure we are all discussing the things that you want to talk about too!


  1. USWeapon says:

    USWeapon Topic #1

    It seems that some lawmakers are returning to their home districts and finding that the reception at their town hall meetings isn’t quite what they expected. From the Fox News Article:

    The White House said Tuesday that some of the anger that Democratic lawmakers have encountered at town hall meetings over the past several days is “manufactured.”

    “In fact, I think you’ve had groups today, Conservatives for Patients Rights, that have bragged about organizing and manufacturing that anger,” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said.

    Read the rest of the article Here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/04/angry-protesters-confront-democratic-lawmakers-health-care-town-halls/

    I have to say I am not of the opinion that the anger is manufactured. I think those groups they are talking about are certainly stoking the fires a little bit. But I believe that the anger is there on its own as people are beginning to see the truth about all the “crisis legislation” we are having shoved down our throats. So is this reaction we are seeing significant or do most of you think this will die down later and have no real impact on what government does? Have any of you seen, or even taken part, in any of this action against your representatives?

    • At our town hall meeting it was peaceful for the most part. We had tried to have a bipartisan debate about the health care bill. The only ruckus was started by some liberals who wanted the health care. THEY were responsible for trying to turn it into a shouting match between those for and those against. It didn’t work as they were vastly outnumbered by those against.

      Plus our Rep. in the House is a Republican and is against it already. He introduced an amendment to force legilators in Congress and the White House to have the same coverage in the public plan that the rest of us would have to have. The Dems slapped that down in a hurry. What will be good enough for us, will NOT be good enough for them.

      To answer your last, NO. I don’t think it matters in the least what we do. We can jump up and down, scream and yell against it all we want to. The Democraps are going to do what they want anyway. That’s why they are already starting damage control by calling all the town hall meetings set-ups by the Republicans. You have to remember what Obama did early in his career. Coordinating just these types of protests with ACORN. And now since he has the media’s liberal ear, he’s going to play it against We The People, and pass it anyway, and then shove it up our A$$es sideways, like all the rest of this spending crap.

      It only remains to be seen what else will be passed under the cover of this health bill.

    • I personally think that until the Congress stops shoving things through using the crisis baloney as their excuse, not only will it continue it will intensify. The MSM has their actions to blame here as well. They typically under report these “uprisings” and gaff them off as a few crackpots…they couldn’t be more wrong.

    • I wrote all my reps…if they have a town hall meeting I will go. Makes me ill for them to blame this on right wing republicans…..infact in fact I take offense to such stupidity…they think we are incapable of thinking for ourselves. We are incapable of having our own ideas….some republican had to manufacture us. I am a registered democrate and AI am highly offended. THOSE PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO GO…NOW.

    • I doubt the protests will die down. The question is, how will the politicians react? Typically, politicians react to such strong voter reaction quickly, but they seem a little slow this time. It will be interesting to see how some of the moderate democrats react in September.

      Senator Spector will be especially interesting. In the past, he has turned quickly when his political future was threatened, even a little. The thing politicians value more than anything else is power. Being defeated for reelection is a big threat to continued power.

      If anything like the current health care reform proposal passes, the Republicans should campaign in 2010 on a platform of repealing the bill. Of course, they won’t have the power to do that with Obama in the White House, but that shouldn’t stop them from campaigning on the issue.

    • http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08

      The DNC is saying the anger is “manufactured” and that right-wing extremists are disrupting thoughtful discussions about the future of Health Care.

      If the topic was something like Welfare Reform and ACORN sent their people, it would probably be OK with the Dem’s.

      This month is going to be interesting. Maybe We the People will finally be heard?

    • I went to an AARP meeting yesterday (billed as a listening meeting – AARP was to do the listening).

      I asked the coordinator how it was that AARP was interested in the Obamacare bill in that it was unconstitutional. No answer was given. The crowd got upset
      that the question was not answered.

      A retired professor explained the 6 issues and opened for questions. The major questions were about why AARP was supporting the bill. They said they weren’t. Most of the members did not agree, expressing their disagreement verbally. Once the questioning got to the coverage of those age 50 – 54, the audience asked questions that were not answered. The audience was not accepting.

      There was some discussion about why AARP didn’t poll the members as to whether they supported Healthcare. AARP said that that was decided by the policy board. The policy rep that was there said it was because of all the stories that they had received about how bad the current system was working for them. The crowd did not accept this answer.

      Further valid questions from the audience brought answers from AARP that were not acceptable to the audience. It deteriorated.

      After, maybe 20 minutes, the AARP coordinator and the AARP expert pulled the microphone and left the building. We were told the meeting was ended because some members that agreed with her were leaving. The policy board member (to his credit) stayed for the whole time to hear the members views.

      After the AARP people closed the meeting there was a lot of preaching to the choir. One believer in the Healthcare program did stay and had heated discussion with others.

      It was at this time that I spoke with the AARP policy board member who told me that he had a problem with AARP wanting to cover the illegal aliens. I once again brought up the constitutional issue. Again no answer but he was friendly.

      Obamacare is Un-Constitutional

    • I don’t know about that USW. Who knows of manufactured outrage more than the left? Who knows more about such than Code Pink, ACORN or any of the big unions? Not a soul.

      If they say its fake outrage, that’s good enough for me. They’re the experts.

  2. USWeapon says:

    USWeapon Topic #2

    From a Fox News Article:

    Government budget woes, the efficiency of the Internet and the staggering volume of junk mail have rightfully buried the U.S. Postal Service, say environmental groups and budget analysts who call the mail delivery model built on the Pony Express no longer viable in the 21st century.

    Nearly 700 post offices around the country are scheduled for potential closure and consolidation by the independent Postal Regulatory Commission. In a document presented to a House subcommittee last week, the near-bankrupt U.S. Postal Service also called for reducing service from six to five days a week.

    Read the rest of the article here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/04/pony-express-postal-service-slammed-lumbering-junk-mail-deliveries/

    It seems as though the postal service is starting to show its age. I have long thought that this is an area where the US government has shown both some flashes of competence and other giant flaws. Email has certainly become the way to when communicating. I have not written a letter and mailed it in many years. I do send cards and some other things. But I have for a while felt that the US Postal Service was a government function that was tough to eliminate, but at the same time a waste of tax dollars in today’s world.

    So should we just give up on the USPS? It seems all I get are solicitations and junk, with a few scattered bills in there, which could be handled by offering some form of email database that was used specifically for “official mail” (in other words no junk permitted). Is the job of the USPS one that could be turned over to private industry? Why or why not?

    • v. Holland says:

      I don’t think it’s time, to get rid of the post office-not all people have computers and some have computers but not internet-these people need a way to pay their bills. Just look at TV-they changed how the signal was received or whatever and the government had to pay to make peoples TV’s still work after the change-is government gonna start giving people free computers, internet, and of course a class on how to work a computer. I don’t doubt that the post office will become obsolete, I just don’t think we’re there yet.

    • Once again, private industry could probably do it better. Its a government program so there is likely to be gobs of waste. Postal offices are all unionized and I sometimes question the work ethic or work procedures of union employees (I made that sound a whole lot better than I should of!).

    • I think we could boil the problem with the postal service down to one sentence.

      “The Government owns it.”

      Unless that sentence changes somehow, the USPS is DOOMED.

    • USW,

      The postal service is shipping packages for less than UPS or Fed Ex. They are doing what would be illegal for a private business to do. Its time to let it evolve, fail, or sell it to a private company.

    • I talked to one of our local postal people when the price of postage went up a few years ago. She said that each office operates on what they sell. No money from the fed? Also, she said they got killed after Katrina because they don’t have any insurance for when something like that happens.

    • Like all government organizations and some companies, the Postal Service can’t change when times demand change. They will downsize some and limp along for many years. Technology will eventually overcome them entirely and they will suffer a slow, painful, death.

    • Get rid of the government-mandated monopoly on first-class mail and it would’ve been gone years ago.

      As it is, the USPS “illegally” uses its monopoly on mail to undercut and lose money on package delivery in order to try and compete there.

  3. USWeapon says:

    USWeapon Topic #3

    From a CNN article:

    The Obama administration is calling together a wide range of officials next month to address how to end accidents caused by distracted motorists.

    The September summit will bring together transportation experts, safety advocates, law enforcement officers and members of Congress, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Tuesday.

    LaHood said the goal is to develop a list of “concrete steps” toward reducing distracted-driving accidents.

    “We all know texting while driving is dangerous,” the transportation chief said, “and I promise you we’re going to do something about it so that responsible drivers don’t have to worry every time they, or a loved one, get on the road.”

    Read the Rest of the Article Here: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/04/distracted.driving/index.html

    I try really hard to understand and accept that something like this is meant to help us all be more safe and reduce accidents. The issue I have is that this will result in more laws being passed that will help some business prosper (selling “hands free” stuff for example), but will overall result in further restrictions placed on all of us because of the actions of the lowest common denominator. At what point will the federal government have a “personal responsibility” summit where they tell Americans the first responsibility for your safety, your health, your survival, your parenting, and your prosperity is YOU?

    • My question here USW is: What business is it of the FEDERAL Government’s???

      The States are passing laws and ruthlessly going after this type of drivers so why can’t it just be left to the states and the Feds keep their camels nose out from under the tent?

      Next thing you know they’re going to be in the bathroom making sure we don’t waste toilet paper whilst doing our business.

    • What disturbs me most about this and other things the Feds have done is that they do it on the basis of Federal money being given to states for highways. States must comply with the Feds silly rules to continue to get federal highway money.

      Where do the highway funds come from? From fuel sales IN THE STATES. I think this is a clear violation of the 10th amendment, but the courts have rule otherwise.

      This is an example of why I agree with Black Flag’s view that any constitution is likely to be twisted and ignored by people eager to amass power. It may take a while, but it will eventually happen.

    • There is no way to create a perfectly safe and fair world where every one is responsible and no one ever gets hurt.

      It is foolish of us to give up our freedom and individual responsibility to the false promise of security.

  4. USWeapon says:

    USWeapon Topic #4

    From The Huffington Post:

    The Democratic National Committee released a notably aggressive web ad on Tuesday evening, accusing the Republican Party of being taken over by an angry mob of “birther” conspiracy theorists and disgruntled partisans.

    The spot, titled “Enough of the Mob,” is as engaged as the Democratic Party has been to date with what its own leadership has deemed a fringe element of the GOP. But, with boisterous protests routinely interrupting Democratic town hall events and dominating news coverage, one DNC official put it succinctly: “We aren’t going to back down from this shit.”

    Read the article and watch the actual ad here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/04/dnc-goes-all-in-takes-on_n_251438.html

    I don’t want to hear from any of the folks from the left about how this ad campaign coming from the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, not some fringe group, is above board. The ad clearly attempts to completely marginalize those who oppose the bullshit coming out of this Congress by linking conspiracy theorists to all of those who oppose anything the Democratic/Socialist Party wants to throw up there. I thought this was a low class move by low class party leadership. This is your party, Democrats…. Hope you are proud. Not surprising their whole ad campaign is based on an appeal to emotion, since that seems to be the driving factor in the position argumaents as well.

    • I think the the Leftists/Socialists are finally getting a taste of their own damn medicine, and,they don’t like it one little bit. I say “too bad, so sad, you @#$!&*!”. Its about time regular folks fight fire with fire. If the Left doesn’t like it, they should change their ways and recall the good old do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I get the feeling that the Left is getting more than it bargained for from the normally passive folks. They’ve gone so far for so long, they thought we’d let them roll right over the top of us. They can’t believe that people are really fed up with the lies and loss of freedom. We’ve learned well…..

      • I got most of what you said but am unsure of what the (!) means.

        Taking from Peter to pay Paul is immoral

    • v. Holland says:

      Haven’t been to any but have heard the taped events and all I can say is HE HE HE, I just love it!!!!

    • All I can say is they called the tune, let’s see if they can dance to it.

    • As an outsider looking in, I have to say that the Democratic party is bang on in their assessment. Trouble is, neither side plays fair or clean. Ever since the election, the Republicans have fragmented, and have no central leadership or agenda. All the Republicans have done is just say no, and whine and complain. Meanwhile, like it or not, Obama and his Democrats have been hard at work attempting to solve problems. Most in here do not agree with his methods, but at least he is attempting to do something.
      Now if you are offended by this Democratic party ad, how come none of you stated that you were outraged and offended by whoever conjured up those Joker/Obama ads in LA? Geez, if you throw shit, expect to get some yourself. Expect some radical members of the Democrat party to respond by making up some form of derogitory pictures of Palin, because they will just play your game.
      Speaking of Palin, I still do not understand your adoration of her. I know of many beautiful women in politics, such as Luciana Leon, Mara Carfagna, Yuri Fujikawa, Anna-Maria Galojan, and my favorite, Yulia Tymoshenko. Yulia is twice the woman Palin wished she could be. Yulia is hard-core conservative, intelligent, and made it to the top.

      I have to tell you guys, come the next election, the Republicans are going to get smoked. You guys may believe you are on the right track, but the greater majority of Americans did not vote for you, and for a good reason. Now, all those swing votes that allowed Obama into the White House will not see any benefit by voting Republican, because that party offers nothing but a lot of nothing.

      • First of all, who in the hell are you calling a Republican? And the Democraps seem to be causing enough dissension in their own ranks to worry about what the Republicans are doing. I personally wish there would come out of the wilderness some new dynamic leader neither Dem nor Rep. Just American.

        Secondly, Where was all the outrage when Vanity fair had a picture of George W. made up like Joker huh? And besides, he is a public official. He can’t take a joke?

        And third and last of all. While I like Palin, it seems to me that she would be a non-issue if the liberals would shut the hell up talking about her. Just makes them look scared to death of her.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        In reality the Republicans are offering alternative legislative proposals all the time. The media reports the existence of precious few of these alternative proposals, and every single one of them gets slapped down before it even makes it out of committee, but they ARE offering alternatives on virtually every legislative proposal.

        If you believe that they are not, and that they are simply saying “no” all of the time, you are simply uninformed, which isn’t hard to believe since the media isn’t putting the information out there to inform you.

        Of course most of the legislation being worked on by the Democrats affects THINGS WHICH SHOULD NOT BE THE BUSINESS OF GOVERNMENT ANYWAY, so the Republicans are actually doing the right thing in those cases where they do just say “no”.

      • Davi,

        Where was your outrage when Vanity Fair did the same thing to Bush?


        Yes, you make a great point, when thousands of people dare to ask questions about how the government is spending their money, start throwing chit at them. That’s a great answer!

        “come the next election, the Republicans are going to get smoked.”
        No doubt, you are correct, by the time ACORN has finished the census, and the country is re-zoned, only a Democrat will be allowed to win election to dog catcher.

        An outsider looking in? Is that why you seem to be cheering the fall of the greatest nation on earth? No matter what country you live in, if America falls, your country will suffer.

        • In no way am I in support of the USA failing. In fact, it won’t happen in the near future. All I see are a bunch of right-wing fringe types wishing that somehow the clock could roll back to “the good ole days”. Mainstream America, the greater percentage of voters, are moving on and will make changes so that your nation will survive.
          Of course it will result in a nation that is not what you expect. But at least, it will still be America.

          • DaveE said: “All I see are a bunch of right-wing fringe types wishing that somehow the clock could roll back to “the good ole days”. Mainstream America, the greater percentage of voters, are moving on and will make changes so that your nation will survive.”
            I very seriously doubt it…on all accounts. I do not think anyone here is interested in going back to the “good ole days” What voters here want is a government that works as it was designed to work…if survival means, socialist, free handouts, and no freedom I doubt very much if you will get Americans to fall for that scenerio.

          • You sir are dead wrong. There is a groundswell of support here that is neither Republican nor Democrat. It has been a long time in the making and I believe the Politicians, no matter the party, had better start representing what the folks want, or they too will be applying for unemployment benefits…

          • “But at least, it will still be America.” No It Won’t.

            If Obama gets his way, it will not still be America. It will be a Socialist nightmare. And the way the Government is borrowing money, someone else will own our asses too.

      • Dave,
        The following link is just one example of options that have been offered up for healthcare alone (see the middle of the page):

        Dems, especially the administration, come out and say that the oposition is just being obstructionists and we’re supposed to believe it. The problem is, that anyone who disagrees with them is automatically an obstructionist. We’d be much better off if the Dems just engaged in regular debate. But then again, that’s too logical. They prefer to name call and divert from the facts. A dangerous practice. I was taught in udergraduate Logic class that when someone uses distraction in an argument, it is because they have no argument or they are trying to hide something.

        You state:
        “Democrats have been hard at work attempting to solve problems. Most in here do not agree with his methods, but at least he is attempting to do something.” (is this an end justifies the means argument?)– Yes, Dems are attempting to do something, pass their agenda, not solve problems. In order to solve a problem, you must first identify it’s root causes. No one has done that–on either side. Creating a new government buraucracy is not the answer to our problems.

      • Dave said…I have to tell you guys, come the next election, the Republicans are going to get smoked. You guys may believe you are on the right track, but the greater majority of Americans did not vote for you, and for a good reason. Now, all those swing votes that allowed Obama into the White House will not see any benefit by voting Republican, because that party offers nothing but a lot of nothing.
        If every thing our elitist represenatives are doing is so great for the American people then why does the elitist not have to participate? Our represenatives believe they are to good for the medicare, midicade, social security and healthcare…but it is good enough for the commoners…

      • DaveE:

        If what they are doing is un-constitutional do you expect the opposition to put up an un-constitutional bill of their own (although there are a lot of Repubs that would like to).

        Stand Up for your State RIGHTS

      • Sad stuff DaveE! As a Canadian I have to speak up. Weak soup arguments don’t fly here and that wasn’t even a decent troll.

        Also something to think on for you. Should the US slide on over to Uni-health they’ll be in dire need of primary care givers as they have never experienced before if there is to be NO RATIONING OR TRIAGE MEDICINE as Obama has promised over and over and over again. Where do you think they’ll be getting those doctors from? Once again think. Doctors make less in Canada, the UK and South Africa than they do in America. As they can’t just pick them up on Monster whenever the need arises (I’ve looked at the postings) and money appears to be no object, where they hell do you think they’ll be coming from?

        • Actually Alan F, it is sad. I’m not the kind of person who indulges in bad behavior. But sadly, this web site has brought out the worse in me. To everyone I have insulted or harmed, I am sorry and I do apologize. I am not proud of my actions.
          But Alan, doesn’t your blood boil when you see so many in here spreading so much disinformation and propaganda? So much one-sided horror storys originating from web sites that are agenda-driven do not make for an informed audience.
          I was hoping to be a positive contribution to this forum, but instead all I have become is a troll. And that’s not the real me. I have nothing positive to contribute to this forum,. So it’s only appropriate I move on. If I stay, all I will do is be an uncomfortable disruption.

          Guys, guys, guys, all of you, please try to collect your information from more than web sites owned by Murdoch or are agenda-driven. Only when you have ALL the facts are you truly informed.
          I wish everyone the best in your endeavours, may life be good and health and happiness be alongside you at all times.

          • Black Flag says:

            Don’t leave Dave!

            This site is simple.

            Attack contradictions and failures of logic.

            Insist on a common reference – such as common definitions – so that everyone is talking about the same thing.

            Try to avoid feeding the emotional arguments by providing emotional arguments. This is hard to do, however.

          • v. Holland says:

            “I was hoping to be a positive contribution to this forum, but instead all I have become is a troll. And that’s not the real me. I have nothing positive to contribute to this forum. So it’s only appropriate I move on. If I stay, all I will do is be an uncomfortable disruption.”

            First of all you are not a troll-and we all are guilty of letting emotion rule our responses(one of those human contradictions-emotions are both good and bad):) but the truth is IMO you are a good addition to this site-we need opposing viewpoints to challenge our opinions. I know it is hard to be outnumbered(I used to post on HuffPost)so I understand the anger but I hope you stay and if YOU feel that you have replied too emotionally, then remember to reread and sometimes wait before you push that submit comment button. 🙂 There have been times while on this site and others where I wish I had.

          • Ah Dave don’t take your ideas and go home. Even I have been guilty of allowing emotions to run my fingers. (BF just sends me to the time out corner). We need people with opposing ideas to keep our heads on straight. You get frustrated at us and we are frustrated because our system does not work right. Frustration on any issue is really hard to deal with for us humans. So please stay around and keep us on our toes.

          • Richmond Spitfire says:


            To me, a “troll” is a person that comes into a site such as this and immediately starts posting quick hit nastiness.

            Dave…I don’t believe you to be a troll…you’ve had a few posts that I agree with.

            I’ve felt embarrassed by some of the posts that I’ve put out here and I’ve sworn that I would never post again.

            There is one thing that I can say about this group of people — I think that we are mostly “forgiving” people and we are truly interested in what you have to say.

            Best Regards,

          • Disruption? Not at all but as a Canadian its your duty to argue as best you can. Any on the right or left want to refine their position, they need to be among differentiating opinions. Choose your position well and make it unassailable as you are able. Your opponent resorts to misdirection, you know that’s where to push. I just happen to think Obama wasn’t the product they that I know personally, American Centrists all, bought and paid for with their votes so I push in that direction.

  5. I’d like to know if anyone else is as upset about the White House call for citizen informants as I am. I find this deeply disturbing. I went to the link in the article but its no longer active. I found the ‘call’ referenced in several places, but by the time I got to the White House site, poof, it was gone. I think the you-know-what must have hit the fan.

    Everyday this current bunch of rulers shows its true colors. I keep telling myself I’m over reacting, but others around me are starting to see it too. Is there something in the water here? 😉 How about the rest of ya’ll? Are you getting that sick feeling in your gut, yet?

    Here’s the link from American Thinker:


    • v. Holland says:

      “If the direction of the nation and the philosophic perspective of the populace isn’t brought back to the founding principles, the end point is predetermined.”

      This line in the article just jumped out at me. We keep talking about returning to the Constitution and using the Constitution to stop the government growth but reading this line really makes one realize that bringing the people back to those basic beliefs that helped form the Constitution is essential if we’re ever to be successful. But I have hope because I’m not convinced that the majority of Americans have lost those principals, I think maybe that’s why President Obama’s platform of “change and Hope” worked. Unfortunately, his ideas of the right change is in my opinion the opposite of those founding principals of freedom and liberty and plan old work hard and succeed, help your neighbor(not government help but personally help your neighbor). I have hope that the American dream isn’t dead, that maybe it’s alive, and is just beginning to wake up and realize that it’s whole foundation of morality and freedom is under attack.

    • I don’t know how you see it Cyndi, but I’m starting to look a little differently towards good ol’ Nubian. I’m starting to see Conspiracy Theories everywhere. I just cannot see how ANYONE can be as stupid as our Government is being. There HAS to be an ulterior motive that we don’t know about.

      I think Obama was elected with his smooth shmooze about hope and change and now the sonofabitch is selling his country out.

      Yeah. I can hear some of the liberals saying how I should show respect for the office of President. I don’t have respect for the Government, why should he be any different? President has just become another word for Liar, Thief, and Crook. Just like Representative and Senator.

      • “good ol’ Nubian” … I guess that’s how you try to side-step around the N-word. Oh, and for the uninformed, Nubia is on the south of Egypt and north end of Sudan, and Kenya is to the south. I guess this only reinforces some people’s ignorance about the rest of the world.

        “sonofabitch” .. ? your true colors are showing.

        “President has just become another word for Liar, Thief, and Crook. Just like Representative and Senator.” .. how about including Governor? So what nice and nasty names can we lay on certain Governors..

        • Richmond Spitfire says:

          OMG DaveE…

          “Nubian” is a poster at this site!

          Ask before you accuse.

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


          Nubian is the screen name of a poster on this site and has nothing to do with the N-word.

          It is unsurprising that someone tried to play the race-card though.

          Governor is also another word for liar, cheat, crook, etc. However, I would prefer the States to have power rather than the central Pollitburo.. I mean the Federal Government…

          There is no Government which is a good system, so yes, Governors are horrible too in the aggregate.

          • No doubt I put my foot in my mouth. My apologies to EsomHillGazette for the error of my statement.

            • No Problem. But if you think calling The members of our Govt liars and thieves is showing my true colors, I’m being nice. I would call them a whole lot worse if not for this public forum.

              I for one have had enough of being nice and polite to elected officals. They deserve no respect, and they get none from me. And I don’t CARE what “Party” they belong to.

              And calling Obama an SOB is really being nice to him. Any President that sells his Nation out and apologizes for his people who have had nothing to apologize for every time he gets in front of a foreign audience deserves a lot worse than I can say here.

              • Esom..have you noticed that we go from one crises to another…it is never ending. I have never seen legislation shoved through fast and all the junk spending. Since all the programs we have now are running a deficit how are the American people going to sustain this. I feel as if there is a hugh sledge hammer hanging over our heads fixing to fall at the most unexpected time.

              • And that is the biggest problem I have with this Government. The spending with borrowed and printed money ax is GOING to fall. The only question is when. When it does it’s gonna be real bad.

      • I’ve been with Nubian all along. I’ve kept my mouth shut, as much as is possible for me. I figure things will pan out one way or another, allowing me to discover who was right and who wasn’t. Sadly, it’s looking like Nubian, and myself, are the ones who are on to something.

        To Dave E. Please stay out of discussions who know know nothing about. Its makes it that much harder think you have a brain.

        • Cyndi,

          With apologies to Nubian, I have thought some of her posts were a little out there, and many were accurate, good information. I never saw any need or reason to insult any here offering polite communication. I hope she will begin posting again, and I do appreciate your thoughts as well.

          USW allows us a lot of leadway, ’cause some of my post have not been very insightful. I think it is a shame to not take advantage of that, because its hard to do at most sites.

          • Search the Web on Snap.com says:

            thanks LOI,
            That means alot to me. Most people tell me I’m a kook, extremist, or worse. I’ve had some self doubt on my positions. I keep telling myself that its not really happening, but its getting harder and harder to really believe that. Thanks for letting me know I’m not losing my mind.

            • Search the Web? that’s not me! I’m Cyndi P!

            • Cyndi P,

              That would fit in a song so well,
              “look at me I’m Cyndi P
              I was not brought up to be”

              LOL. OR on post #4 said, “They prefer to name call and divert from the facts. A dangerous practice. I was taught in undergraduate Logic class that when someone uses distraction in an argument, it is because they have no argument or they are trying to hide something.”

              Wise words.

        • Richmond Spitfire says:

          Hi Cyndi,

          Were ever able to view that video on Reverse Racism?

          Best Regards,

          • No. I think its blocked or something. I’m on an overseas military installation and we get a lot of that. I think most of it has to do with bandwith. Its very limited. We still have dial up at home!

    • This reminds me of an ad that’s been on the radio here lately, perhaps you’ve heard it?

      It warns of the dangers of littering and claims that littering can cause death, than urges citizens to call the police and report on litterers if they see them.

      Littering causes death? What? The ad refers to unsecured loads of large items and so forth, but THAT is not littering. Littering is throwing trash out your window as you drive down the road and I’ve never heard of it causing anyone’s death.

      Remember how your mom told you not to tattle? Well now big brother is urging you to tell on your neighbors for non-life threatening issues.

      My kids were in the car with me when this ad came on and we talked about how it’s so very wrong that the government is asking people to tell on each other for such minor things.

    • Here is a link to an article I was shocked to read this morning on Fox News about the same thing


      I’m trying to find out more and will post as I find it

  6. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Good Morning all,

    Another email from my awesome Father-in-Law:

    First Lady requires more than 20 attendants

    No, Michele Obama does not get paid to serve as the First Lady and she doesn’t perform any official duties. But this hasn’t deterred her from hiring an unprecedented number of staffers to cater to her every whim and to satisfy her every request in the midst of the Great Recession. Just think Mary Lincoln was taken to task for purchasing china for the White House during the Civil War. And Mamie Eisenhower had to shell out the salary for her personal secretary. How things have changed! If you’re one of the tens of millions of Americans facing certain destitution, earning less than subsistence wages stocking the shelves at Wal-Mart or serving up McDonald cheeseburgers, prepare to scream and then come to realize that the benefit package for these servants of Miz Michelle are the same as members of the national security and defense departments and the bill for these assorted lackeys is paid by John Q. Public:

    1. $172,2000 – Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)

    2. $140,000 – Frye, Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy And Projects For The First Lady)

    3. $113,000 – Rogers, Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary)

    4. $102,000 – Johnston, Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady)

    5. Winter, Melissa E. (Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)

    6. $90,000 – Medina , David S. (Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)

    7. $84,000 – Lelyveld, Catherine M. (Director and Press Secretary to the First Lady)

    8. $75,000 – Starkey, Frances M. (Director of Scheduling and Advance for the First Lady)

    9. $70,000 – Sanders, Trooper (Deputy Director of Policy and Projects for the First Lady)

    10. $65,000 – Burnough, Erinn J. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)

    11. Reinstein, Joseph B. (Deputy Director and Deputy Social Secretary)

    12. $62,000 – Goodman, Jennifer R. (Deputy Director of Scheduling and Events Coordinator For The First Lady)

    13. $60,000 – Fitts, Alan O. (Deputy Director of Advance and Trip Director for the First Lady)

    14. Lewis, Dana M. (Special Assistant and Personal Aide to the First Lady)

    15. $52,500 – Mustaphi, Semonti M. (Associate Director and Deputy Press Secretary To The First Lady)

    16. $50,000 – Jarvis, Kristen E. (Special Assistant for Scheduling and Traveling Aide To The First Lady)

    17. $45,000 – Lechtenberg, Tyler A. (Associate Director of Correspondence For The First Lady)

    18. Tubman, Samantha (Deputy Associate Director, Social Office)

    19. $40,000 – Boswell, Joseph J. (Executive Assistant to the Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)

    20. $36,000 – Armbruster, Sally M. (Staff Assistant to the Social Secretary)

    21. Bookey, Natalie (Staff Assistant)

    22. Jackson, Deilia A. (Deputy Associate Director of Correspondence for the First Lady)

    There has never been anyone in the White House at any time that has created such an army of staffers whose sole duties are the facilitation of the First Lady’s social life. One wonders why she needs so much help, at taxpayer expense, when even Hillary, only had three; Jackie Kennedy one; Laura Bush one; and prior to Mamie Eisenhower social help came from the President’s own pocket.

    Note: This does not include makeup artist Ingrid Grimes-Miles, 49, and “First Hairstylist” Johnny Wright, 31, both of whom travelled aboard Air Force One to Europe .

    Copyright 2009 Canada Free Press.Com


  7. Morning all!
    Just wanted to post a link to our newspaper and the article about how we “turned out in droves” yesterday to defeat a tax increase disguised as a millage for a local hospital. They thought we wouldn’t read the fine print but uhhh, we did!


    • You go, Willo!!!

      To pay for un and under insured???

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      “So because of this.. does this mean people will be laid off because Hurley is unable to pay for them? Good job people.. way to increase the employment rate once again…”

      This was a reader comment following the article. It is PRICELESS! Clearly, it is NECESSARY to raise taxes in order to raise employment! Of COURSE it is! YEAH!

  8. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    How many Tsars (or Czars) does it take to run the US government?

    At last count, it was at least 44 that we know about.

    All of these people are appointed by the President to posts that do not actually exist, are given more power than cabinet members by Presidential Fiat (pretty much none of them require Congressional approval), and they are paid more than any other government official.

    Sounds like Democracy in action to me!

    It is true that other Presidents have used the Czar postition to get people that they wanted into positions of power, but Obama’s 44 and counting is more than 3 times the number of Czar’s employed by ANY previous President.

    Oh, and by the way, your taxes are paying for these people….

    • I dont like the Csar position because they are accountable to us-the taxpayer. We have no idea what they do or what their plan of action is. That is not right for anyone! People who hold public office are suppose to be accountable to the people.

      The fact that there are so many of these positions is darn scary

  9. I understand that people have a right to voice their concern about the Healthcare issue or whatever else to a person in Congress at these Town Hall meeting. My concern is when the crowds end up just screaming at the person holding the town hall- other people who came to ask questions and try to have a dicussion on the topics, that doesnt happen. To me it does solve anything for anyone on either side of the issues.
    I think both parties are equally guilty of playing dirty and low games when it comes to the public. No one has clean hands on this one. I think that we as people should demand better from them. No matter where you stand on the issues. This type of BS is trash. I hate listenig to anyone or any party that thinks is going to win me over to their views.
    I do think we should keep the post office, I still use it on a regular basis. But it needs to change their operating ways in almost everyway. But while it is ran by our federal government that will not happen fast or at all.

    • Ellen,

      Agree people should be respectful, and both sides have their black sheep. I recall a 4th grade sporting event, a grandfather was upset about a call, yelling and such. Had a fatal heart attack. Its not surprising people will be as upset about their future and their livelyhood, as they are about a sporting event. Wonder what a town hall meeting during half time of a soccer
      game would be like?

      Post office, cut government support, force it to evolve to a viable business or fail.

    • Very good Ellen….and if they do want to “win” me over, they better not be screaming at me. LOL that was a good point. I don’t mind being shon where the error of my thinking is….I just don’t like to be shouted it. Momma said…you attract more bees with honey than with vinager.

    • Hi Ellen,

      I think many conservatives DID play fair for a long time. Look what it has got them. I agree with you that both sides should behave better. But if one side fights dirty and gains the advantage, what’s the incentive for the other side to not do the same? Sometimes you’ve gotta fight fire with fire, or be incinerated.

      • I have to disagree with you Cindi. You can’t win by playing dirty, you’ll just end up a loser like the other losers. Oh, you may gain power, but power isn’t what we’re supposed to be after, it’s freedom.

        • HI Michelle,

          I’ll have to respectfully disagree. I’m a firm believer that power and freedom are compatible. The only time power is a problem is when it is abused.

          I’ll have to disagree on the fighting dirty. McCain fought fair. Obama didn’t. Look at the result. I believe ACORN facilitated mass voter fraud, I believe the MSM was in bed with the Obama team, I believe the $550 billion dollars that left the market on 18 Sept 08, was done with the intention of tanking the economy, so Hope and Change would sound so much more appealing. I’m not advocating lies, and illegal actions, but this taking the moral high ground isn’t getting us anywhere we want to be. This bunch of thugs we’re dealing with, will do and say anything they think will acheive the desired result. I say if the tactic is legal, then do it! If you’re going to clean out the cesspool, you’re going to have to get a little dirty.

          • Cyndi
            I have to disagree. I think that people are drawn to a great leader. If someone actually stood above the dirty plays, I do believe that it would have peeple’s attention. It might not happen over night- but I do believe it can work. Just because one team plays dirty, joining them to win, doesnt make you any better

            • Okay. I can see where that would work in theory, but let me ask you this: If most people are repulsed by dirty tactics, then why do the Leftists/Democrats have such a loyal and massive following? Does this mean the the Left has achieved its goals in an honest manner? If so, then why are we complaining? If they are ‘right’ and we’re wrong, should we do what they say and get with the program?

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Its more accurate to state that both sides have employed nasty and ugly tactics. I think it sunk to its lowest with the likes of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove and has not recovered much since then. Trouble is we the peephole love the dirt, the fiction, the controversy, the theatrics.

  10. Fix Entitlement Programs, Then Fix Health Care


    from the Bobo Files

    • JayDickB says:

      If we waited until entitlement (or any other government) programs were fixed, we would wait a very long time.

      Wouldn’t that be a good thing?

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      How do you fix programs that are unfixable? The only way to “fix” a program that was inherently broken to begin with is to eliminate it entirely.

  11. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Even the proponents of Anthropogenic Global Warming are starting to admit that the Earth is cooling, but with a caveat!

    They are claiming that the warming seen between between the late 1970s and 2000 was caused by the actions of man, but the cooling seen between 2000 and the present is caused only by natural forces.

    This seems completely contradictory to me personally. I thought that all of these “man-made emissions” were supposedly completely overwhelming all natural forces, and we were supposed to have alarming levels of warming no matter what! Yet, it turns out, the Earth is indeed cooling due to natural forces anyway.

    Isn’t is JUST POSSIBLE that all the warming we saw was due to NATURAL FORCES as well? Oh wait… that would make sense.. nevermind.

    # of days in Indianapolis at or above 90 for July 2009 = ZERO
    Average # of days in Indianapolis at or above 90 for July = 7
    Record # of days in Indianapolis at or above 90 for July = 16

    This is only the 2nd year since records have been kept that the city of Indianapolis has not recorded a temperature at or above 90 for July.


    Ok, how stupid do they think that we are. This glacier is growing at such a rate that it has taken over a lower-altitude lagoon and filled it with ice. The mountainous area in the background CLEARLY HAS MORE SNOWPACK IN 2009 THAN IT DID IN 2002.

    Yet, the article is claiming WARMING????

    How does a glacier rapidly GROW over a 7-year period and freeze the lagoon below IF IT IS MELTING AWAY????

    • Dude, if you rely on rags such as the DailyMail, then there is a reason for your opinion. I prefer to deal in facts.
      The Breidamerkurjokull glacier is receding annually at 2%.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


        The pictures of the actual glacier which is supposedly subsuming the lagoon below the mountains would seem to contradict what NASA is saying.

        Right now, the majority of the glaciers on the planet are actually growing, not receeding.


      • Davi,

        A good source, thank you. Could you help me understand something on global warming? Both science (ice core data) and history show the Med Evil Warm Period was the same temp. as the UN study projects we will reach in 2100. Was that caused by mankind? Too many knights and charriot’s perhaps?

        And do you know how small a percentage of our atmosphere is made up of greenhouse gasses?


      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


        You just proved my point completely. The NASA data taken in the article you cited was from 1973 to 2000 and doesn’t include any data from 2002-2009, during which the glacier has been growing.

        Thanks for that!

    • Black Flag says:


      Glaciers grow and recede everywhere on Earth, all at the same time.

      Generally, glaciers are a poor measure of climate while in glaciation or inter-glaciation periods. Only at the boundaries of glaciation-to-interglactial or interglacial-to-glaciation are they an indicator.

      The facts, however, regarding “Anthropogenic Global Warming” suggest that the theory is baseless and completely a figment of a computer modeler’s dream.


      NASA is now calling we are moving into Sun Cycle 25 – which is unprecedented. It means they are claiming the Sun skipped over Cycle 24. This has never been seen before (though theorized as the cause of the Mini-Ice age in the 1800’s). The current theory is that such ‘skipping’ creates the Dalton Minimums. The challenge is, whether they are right (and we missed Cycle 24) or they are wrong (Cycle 24 has yet to appear) both lead to the same outcome – Global Cooling.

  12. Black Flag says:

    Carried over from:


    Pure socialism does not work and pure capitalism does not work.

    What do you mean “not work”?

    Socialism works just dandy if your goal is economic stagnation and broad public suffering.

    Capitalism works just dandy if your goal is economic growth and broad public prosperity.

    The essential difference between the two systems is that Socialism claims that the savings of your labor over your consumption (your wealth) is owned by everyone except you and that Capitalism claims that the savings of your labor over your consumption (your wealth) is owned by you and not anyone else.

    Perhaps you were referring to Fascism – it carries a similar defect as Socialism – it claims the excess of labor over consumption (your wealth) is owned by the government

    If any politician suggested scrapping the NHS then they would kiss their political career goodbye. People in the UK grumble about it but then we grumble about everything, the NHS is still very popular.

    I expect it would be!

    Everyone loves that someone else pays for their costs! I do to! I’d love for you to pay for my Ferrari….

    But the problem is, it cannot be sustained.

    If you pay for my Ferrari, you would demand that I pay for your Rolls, and then I demand you pay for my mansion, and you demand that I pay for your island,…. And before you say “boo”, we are both bankrupt.

    I find it amazing that people believe Government and Socialism is immune to economics.

    Currently the US system spends around 10% of the money on malpractice cases and you spend 30% on administrative costs, in UHC countries you have about 5% administrative costs. Tort reform is only going to help you slightly.

    I agree – as long as doctors and the AMA hold a monopoly on medical practice, law suits and costs will be artificially high.

    If you have money and have good insurance you can get some of the best medical care in the world in America, if you are poor and uninsured well good luck.

    The poor can get medical care too.

    It merely depends what your priorities are with the monies available.

    No one is immune to these decisions.

    • Black Flag says:

      And to fill in for all the -isms.

      Communism is the means of production and its wealth is owned by the government. It goes right for the throat.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Careful with your -isms BF – communism and Communism are not necessarily the same thing.

    • Socialism inhibits economic growth? China is much more than just socialist, it is communism.
      What is undeniable is China’s rapid economic growth over the past 25 years since the beginning of economic reforms in 1978, of, measured in gross domestic product (GDP), on average 9.37% per year. In economic size China is surpassed today only by the U.S., Japan, Germany, and France. Its share in global growth 1995-2002 has been estimated at 25%, compared to 20% for the U.S.
      Extrapolating past real GDP growth rates into the future, the size of the Chinese economy surpasses that of the U.S. in purchasing power terms between 2012 and 2015; by 2025, China is likely to be the world’s largest economic power by almost any measure.

      So please explain how come a communist country is growing faster than the bastion of capitalism?

      • Uh. Because America buys everything they make? And because they make everything cheaper than anyone else because they have no regulations or controls except making money?

        Right now we’re scrapping and crushing cars and sending them to China. They’re melting them down and selling us back the reclaimed steel. Why aren’t we crushing our clunkers and sending them to OUR steel makers? ‘Cause our Govt has to keep China happy so they don’t call all of those loans in they’ve given our Govt.

    • Simple Black Flag, pure capitalism does not work because people are assholes and people are stupid, this applies to every -ism you can think of.

      Unless your dream world involves people stuffing their mattresses with their money and not making any investments or bank holdings at all there is going to be trouble. There are people in the financial sector that would not even think twice about screwing over thousands of people to add an extra zero to their bank account.

      Look at the current crap the banks have been doing, in a perfect world we would have let them collapse due to their incompetence, I know people say it was all the democrats/republicans fault but I didnt see any bankers objecting as they were giving themselves millions in bonuses as they were mislabelling toxic assets.

      -isms can look great on paper but when we enter harsh reality they fall apart, we have had brief periods of anarchy throughout history but they never last. Whenever there is a power vacumn there will be someone who will fill it, we are pack animals.

      Regards the NHS, again it has been running since 1948 your chicken little warnings which have been said throughout its existence by others as well have yet to come to pass.

      Also please tell me how the poor gets its medical treatment, if you are on minimum wage and have kids and you are stuggling to put food on the table how are you going to afford health care if you get ill?

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


        It used to be when the doctor visited you to care for your ills, if you didn’t have the money to pay him, you traded him a chicken.

        I am not saying we should necessarily go back to that, but you have to remember that the main reason that health care costs are so high are that by allowing government intervention into both the healthcare system and the insurance system, we have caused prices to become high.

        By involving a 3rd party (insurers) and a 4th party (the government) into the system, the economic mechanisms that ordinarily would control price have been eliminated.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


        Are you aware that in America anyway, a member of “the poor” can walk into any emergency room at any time for any reason and receive any test and treatment deemed necessary without even getting billed for it if they are uninsured?

        NOW for the answer you really are not going to like:

        In a free market system, there is no “minimum wage”. If someone is not making very much money and cannot afford to pay for medical treatment which they need, how does that become YOUR responsibility?

        You could CHOOSE to make it your responsibility by donating money to the hospital to help cover the costs of treating “the poor” or “the needy”, but what right does government (or anyone else for that matter) have to tell you that YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, whether you wish to or not?

        In any form of societal organization that you can come up with, HUMAN SUFFERING WILL EXIST! You cannot eliminate it. All that government does is spread the suffering to as many people as possible under the guise of telling us that it is somehow alleviating it.

        “Just as there are Laws of Conservation of Matter and Energy, so there are in fact Laws of Conservation of Pain and Joy. Neither can ever be created or destroyed. But one can be converted into the other..”
        Spider Robinson

        “The thing to remember here is that government is terribly inefficient at converting pain into joy, and often gets the process completely backwards.”

        • v. Holland says:

          I have to say that I believe government formed social programs are wrong because they turn a small need into a huge obligation because of corruption and they create a huge dependency out of a small need, which wouldn’t be there if the program hadn’t ever been started. I will also say that I do not want to live in a society that turns people away from a hospital and just lets them die. I am aware that there will always be suffering and maybe non-governmental programs can take care of the REAL needs without corruption creating a monster but IF, and that’s a big if, it can’t or it won’t then society has to figure out a way to do so.

  13. Black Flag says:


    Socialism inhibits economic growth? China is much more than just socialist, it is communism.

    No, it’s not.

    China has long passed being Communist – it is moving closer, everyday, to more pure Capitalism. Private ownership and investment is the norm.

    There are a few “gotcha’s” in China – do not test the government’s will regarding Taiwan or Tibet, for example. Do not try to overthrow the elite.

    But almost everything else – they are probably more free than you are.

    The Chinese elite long threw away Communism – it’s the Zebra and the Horse Parable.

    “A village had a Zebra, and it didn’t do the work very well for the village people. But it is what they had, and they did not want change.

    The next village had a Horse, and it worked very well. But the local villagers hated horses.

    One night, the village elder took away the Zebra and brought in a Horse. He painted stripes on it, so it looked like a Zebra.

    The villagers did not notice the Horse because it was painted like a Zebra, but the village began to prosper.

    Every day, the elder removed a some paint and a stripe.

    One day, the villagers saw the Horse! But they were already used to it, so it didn’t matter anymore.”

    • Black Flag says:

      PS: That parable was actually stated by one of China’s top political leaders in response to a question much like yours.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      BF – to your statement:

      “China has long passed being Communist – it is moving closer, everyday, to more pure Capitalism. Private ownership and investment is the norm.”

      Where did you pull that from – especially the notion that private ownership and investment is the norm? I’m not certain there is anything factual to support that (pls correct me if there is) – most of what I have seen/read – even that which is anecdotal still points to heavy government influence and ownership – that which is not outright owned by the government is still heavily influenced by outright corruption and bribery similar to the Russian Oligarchs. The “title” may not say “Owned by the Chinese Government” but I believe it is damn near close.

      • I look forward to watching for BF’s answer. I too believe the Chinese are moving closer to capitalism. My reason for thinking this was that I have a friend in the medical field who works for a US compay that has a presence in China. He thought about moving his family there. He reports no interference in their business from the government (yet). He traveled several times a year to China before he went to work for another corporation.
        I was wondering if China was becoming a mixture of the two, if that is possible. Or if this particular corporaton was tolerated because it was needed by the Chinese government.

    • Woah BF have you been to China other than going to Beijing? Go to some of the more rural villages before you start talking about pure capitalism. I was out there back in 2003 for work commitments and you must have gone to a different China than me.

  14. I find it interesting that you can hear a song, and think it means one thing, but the writer will later explain what them meant, and its totally different.
    So for your consideration and amusement, what is this about. I will post the artist and title at a later time. Warning to all liberals, this is a trap.

    I wasn’t worried
    I walked into the room
    I saw the serpant’s shadow
    Against the silver moon
    They said as long as you believe
    You’ll be alright
    And I wasn’t worried
    ‘Til I saw one bite
    You could touch, you could feel
    You could smell them all through the night
    But as long as you believe, you’re gonna be alright
    Or you’ll be running, running for your life
    But I didn’t worry, when I caught the spell
    I saw the eyes, saw the teeth, beads of sweat
    Think I’d gone to hell
    They said as long as you believ
    A snake won’t bite
    Or you’ll be running, running for your life
    But I’ve gotta tell you
    Power over snakes
    Sure makes me feel so different
    From a cane break
    And just as long as you believe
    A snake won’t bite, yeah
    Taking up serpents can take your life
    They stuck my hand down in there without a bite
    Just as long as you believe, boy
    You’ll be alright
    I should be running, running for my life
    Yeeeeh Uh
    Oh I didn’t tell you
    About the one that got bit
    On the face, on the arms
    Between the legs, on the back of the neck
    You see, he didn’t believe
    The boy didn’t believe
    I said he didn’t believe
    He didn’t believe
    And just as long as you believe, a snake won’t bite
    So I didn’t worry ’cause the snake won’t bite
    The snake won’t bite
    The snake won’t bite

    • Can’t wait to see the title and artist.

    • Black Flag says:

      Now, that one I like!

      Thx, LOI

    • A few months ago, it came to me that this could be about Obama.
      “Change you can BELIEVE in”. It could also be applied to almost any politician. Child asks grandmother, do all fairytails begin with “Once upon a time?”. No dear, some start with, “if elected, I promise”.

      as long as you believe
      You’ll be alright

      Sammy Hagar, Salvation on Sand Hill

      From same CD, Marching to Mars

      There’s another side to everything
      Connected like the ring around your finger
      And I know this like I know myself,
      Not very well, yet I’m no stranger
      But it won’t be long, I see both sides now
      When nothing’s gained, then something’s lost
      Pay half the price at twice the cost
      We’re crystallized, we stand alone
      Conviction holds us like a stone
      I know it won’t be long, ’cause I see both sides now
      We got to learn how to listen, before we learn to talk
      We got to learn how to crawl, befor we learn to walk
      If you want a little peace, sometimes you got to fight
      We got to walk through the darkness
      Before we stand in the light
      But I know it won’t be long, I see both sides now
      We’re always somewhere in between
      We never taste, the sweet extreme
      We’re crystallized, we stand alone
      Conviction holds us like a stone
      I know it won’t be long, I see both sides now
      We got to learn how to listen, before we learn to talk
      You got to learn to crawl, before you learn to walk
      If you want a little peace, sometimes you got to fight
      You’ve got to walk through the darkness
      Before you stand in the light
      I know it won’t be long
      I see both sides now
      Both sides now

      Flag, thx for your #15. Bamma, war is immoral?? I don’t know. Is it hell
      and does everyone loose, yes. But is it moral to kill a killer? Even if its to stop them from killing an innocent. I think yes. I think some wars are moral. So the US did not win WW2, but had we not fought, we would have lost something greater, our freedom.

      “If you want a little peace, sometimes you got to fight”

  15. Black Flag says:

    For the Sixty-Fourth Time: No More Nuclear War
    Reflections on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Our World

    by Frida Berrigan

    I can’t help myself. I still think it’s worth bringing up, even for the 64th time. I’m talking, of course, about the atomic obliteration, at the end of a terrible, world-rending war, of two Japanese cities, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, on August 6 and 9, 1945, whose anniversaries – if that’s even the appropriate word for it – are once again upon us.

    In this, at least, I know I’m not a typical American: Hiroshima and Nagasaki still seem all too real to me. As the child of anti-nuclear activists, I was raised to pay attention to two significant dates in American history – the day when the Enola Gay, a B-29 Superfortress bomber named after the pilot’s mother, dropped Little Boy, a five-ton uranium explosion bomb, on Hiroshima; and the moment, three days later, when another plane, jokingly named Bock’s Car (after the plane’s original pilot), dropped Fat Man (a moniker supposedly given it in honor of former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill), a more complex plutonium implosion bomb, on Nagasaki.

    When I was little, in preparation for those dates – and in this we were truly a minority of a minority in this country – we showed films documenting the aftermath of the atomic bombings. To this day, I can remember threading our old 16mm projector and then watching the shocking, shaky, grainy, black-and-white footage of ruined cities and ruined bodies filling the living room wall as one of those somber male over-voices narrated the facts.

    So now, as the 64th anniversary of so many deaths approaches and thinking the unthinkable remains incomprehensibly in vogue, it seems worth the bother to recall one more time just what it means for the unthinkable to become reality.

    The Death Count

    In Hiroshima, Little Boy’s huge fireball and explosion killed 70,000 to 80,000 people instantly. Another 70,000 were seriously injured. As Joseph Siracusa, author of Nuclear Weapons: A Very Short Introduction, writes: “In one terrible moment, 60% of Hiroshima… was destroyed. The blast temperature was estimated to reach over a million degrees Celsius, which ignited the surrounding air, forming a fireball some 840 feet in diameter.”

    Three days later, Fat Man exploded 1,840 feet above Nagasaki, with the force of 22,000 tons of TNT. According to “Hiroshima and Nagasaki Remembered,” a web resource on the bombings developed for young people and educators, 286,000 people lived in Nagasaki before the bomb was dropped; 74,000 of them were killed instantly and another 75,000 were seriously injured.

    In addition to those who died immediately, or soon after the bombings, tens of thousands more would succumb to radiation sickness and other radiation-induced maladies in the months, and then years, that followed.

    In an article written while he was teaching math at Tufts University in 1983, Tadatoshi Akiba calculated that, by 1950, another 200,000 people had died as a result of the Hiroshima bomb, and 140,000 more were dead in Nagasaki. Dr. Akiba was later elected mayor of Hiroshima and became an outspoken proponent of nuclear disarmament.

    Surviving Hiroshima

    Those who somehow managed to survive call themselves Hibakusha, which literally means “those who were bombed.” Most of the inhabitants of those two cities who miraculously made it through those hot and terrible August days are, if alive, now in their seventies or eighties, and they continue to tell their unique stories of horror, destruction, and survival. Their urgent pleas for peace, disarmament, and atonement often go unheard by a twenty-first century American culture that often seems to barely recall what happened last week, much less 64 years ago. Many of them have, over the years, traveled to the United States to tell their stories and show their scars, demanding that we never forget and that the world work towards nuclear disarmament.

    Akihiro Takahashi is 77 years old now, but part of him will always be the 14-year-old boy standing in line with his classmates on August 6, 1945, less than a mile from where Little Boy detonated. He still recalls how he and his classmates were knocked off their feet by the blast. When he stood up again, he “felt the city of Hiroshima had disappeared all of a sudden. Then I looked at myself and found my clothes had turned into rags due to the heat. I was probably burned at the back of the head, on my back, on both arms and both legs. My skin was peeling and hanging.”

    Since that time, Takahashi has endured many operations and spent countless hours in the hospital to repair the damage wrought in that single instant. On that August morning, he began to walk home – though there were few homes left in the leveled city – stopping to relieve the terrible heat and pain of his burns in the Ota River that flows through Hiroshima.

    Along the way, he encountered injured friends, including a boy with terrible burns on the bottoms of his feet whom he half carried along with him. “When we were resting because we were so exhausted,” he related in an oral history, “I found my grandfather’s brother and his wife, in other words, great uncle and great aunt, coming toward us. That was quite [a] coincidence… [W]e have a proverb about meeting Buddha in Hell. My encounter with my relatives at that time was just like that. They seem[ed] to be the Buddha to me wandering in the living hell.”

    Jigoku de hotoke ni au you is the phrase. In English, the equivalent would be “an oasis in the desert,” something rare that provides great relief. There were not many such oases in Hiroshima that day.

    Imagining Nagasaki

    Akihiro Takahashi’s story (of which the above was but a small part) is just one of so many thousands – and hardly one of the grimmest. Of course, 80,000 to 140,000 stories went with their potential tellers to their graves that day. Along with the stories that could be told, there were also the photographs to help us imagine the unimaginable.

    Yosuke Yamahata was 28 years old and working for the Japanese News Information Bureau in August 1945. Along with Eiji Yamada, a painter, and Jun Higashi, a writer, he was dispatched to devastated Nagasaki by the Japanese military just hours after Fat Man exploded and instructed to “photograph the situation so as to be as useful as possible for military propaganda.”

    Their train arrived at the outskirts of the ruined city in the middle of the night. Here’s how Yamahata describes the scene: “I remember vividly the cold night air and the beautiful starry sky… A warm wind began to blow. Here and there in the distance I saw many small fires, like elf fires, smoldering. Nagasaki had been completely destroyed.” By the time the sun rose, Yamahata had made his way to the center of what was no longer a city. As the day went on, he retraced his steps, along the way taking photographs of the carnage and destruction until he was back at the train station.

    All in all, he took 119 photographs that day, capturing some of the most haunting and enduring images of the atomic age. In one, a bloodied boy holding a rice ball stares, his head covered with an air raid hood (a dark cloth that the Japanese military handed out to civilians telling them it would protect them from American bombs); in another, an exhausted-looking woman nurses a badly burnt baby.

    In almost every image, the ground is littered with burnt bodies and unattached limbs, household items, rubble, and timbers. As he walked through the missing city, people cried out for water or for help uncovering bodies buried in the rubble. “It is perhaps unforgiveable,” reflected Yamahata, “but in fact at the time I was completely calm and composed. In other words, perhaps it was just too much, too enormous to absorb.” Returning to Tokyo, Yamahata took advantage of the general confusion that surrounded the Japanese surrender to the Americans and managed to hold on to his negatives, rather than turning them over to his superiors.

    A handful of his images were published in Japanese newspapers at the end of August 1945, before the American army arrived and the U.S. occupation began. In October 1945, occupation authorities imposed a ban on photographing the atomic sites and on the publication of all atomic-related stories (and the images that went with them). Most of Yamahata’s photographs from Nagasaki were not seen until 1952, after Japan was once again an independent nation and Life Magazine published a few of his Nagasaki photos. That same year almost all the Nagasaki photographs were published in Japan under the title: Atomized Nagasaki: The Bombing of Nagasaki, A Photographic Record. The book includes sketches by Eiji Yamada and an essay by Jun Higashi, his two companions in Nagasaki that day.

    In the introduction, Yamahata wrote: “Human memory has a tendency to slip and critical judgment to fade with the years and with changes in life style and circumstance… These photographs will continue to provide us with an unwavering testimony to the realities of that time.”


    When I was young, to keep memory from “slipping,” our family and friends marked the anniversary of those terrible days in a distant land with a demonstration or vigil. Often, we ended with a ceremony of remembrance, setting paper lanterns afloat on water in honor of those who died.

    Admittedly, this would not pass for a carefree American summer evening, but even as a little girl I came to feel as if I knew some of the A-bomb survivors personally – the experience of Akihiro Takahashi, the photographs of Yosuke Yamahata, and perhaps closest to my heart, the story of Sadako Sasaki.

    The children’s book, Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes, written by Eleanor Coerr, brought me close to one girl whose life was cut short by my government’s A-bomb long before I was born. I was then a chubby, sedentary kid, and so found myself strangely intrigued and confused by Sadako’s deep love of running.

    She was just two years old when Little Boy exploded above her city, but eight or nine as the book begins, impatient and uncomfortable with all the obligatory ceremonies surrounding the anniversary of the bomb in Hiroshima. She did not like to look at the survivors or care to hear the terrible stories. All she wanted to do was run. Lithe, athletic, and popular, Sadako joined a footrace on the very anniversary of the destruction of her city and, when she found herself unable to finish, was taken to the doctor only to discover that she had “atom bomb sickness” – in her case, leukemia.

    In the hospital, a friend reminded her of an ancient Japanese belief: if you fold 1,000 paper cranes, the Gods will grant you a wish. So with the help of her classmates, she began to do just that. Scrap paper, candy wrappers, fancy printed paper: all become tiny origami birds of hope.

    With her as an inspiration, I learned to fold paper cranes, practicing until I could do so with my eyes closed and fold them as small as a pea. Childhood being childhood, what may have impressed me most was a friend of mine who could fold those origami birds with her toes.

    On October 25, 1955, with 356 birds left to go (as Coerr tells it), Sadako died. Since 1958, a statue of Sadako holding a golden folded crane has stood in the Hiroshima Peace Memorial, draped with small paper birds sent from children all over the world, a symbol of peace.

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki Today

    Sixty-four years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we need more than symbols of peace. Folding paper cranes alone cannot, unfortunately, end the threat of nuclear war. Memories of the destruction fade, the hibakusha grow even older and die, the haunting pictures end up in books stored spine out on bookshelves.

    Meanwhile, the terror of nuclear annihilation – so keen at certain moments during the long superpower Cold War stand-off – seems to have worn off almost completely. That’s too bad, since the actual threat of nuclear war remains hidden but potent. The nine nuclear powers – the United States, Russia, France, England, China, Israel, Pakistan, India, and North Korea – have more than 27,000 operational nuclear weapons among them, enough to destroy several Earth-sized planets. And in May, Mohamed ElBaradei, the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, warned that the number of nuclear powers could double in a few years unless new disarmament is a priority. Is it any wonder then that, according to a recent Rasmussen opinion poll, one in five Americans believe nuclear war “very likely” in this century, and more than half, “likely”?

    The unthinkable is still under consideration – even as the Obama administration takes its first steps in the right direction. In an April speech in Prague, President Obama publicly embraced the goal of seeking “the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons.” In its wake, his administration has begun taking still quite modest but potentially important steps towards that goal, including: renewed talks with Russia over mutual nuclear reductions, conversations initiated in the Senate about jump-starting the ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban, stalled these last 10 years, and of negotiations for the also stalled Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty, imagined as an internationally verified ban on the production of nuclear materials for weapons.

    Right now, however, the American nuclear landscape – little acknowledged or discussed – remains grimly potent. According to the authoritative Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, the United States still maintains a nuclear stockpile estimated at 5,200 warheads – of which approximately 2,700 are operational (with the rest in reserve), while the Obama administration will spend more than $6 billion on the research and development of nuclear weapons this year alone.

    At some point early next year, the administration will complete a Nuclear Posture Review outlining the role it believes nuclear weapons should play in the American pantheon of power, and, if the president follows through on his anti-nuclear statements, perhaps that document will at least begin to limit the scenarios in which such weapons could be used. In the meantime, the policy of the United States remains no different than it was in 2004, when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld signed the Nuclear Weapons Employment Policy. It said, in part, that the United States possesses nuclear weapons for the purposes of “destroying those critical war-making and war-supporting assets and capabilities that a potential enemy leadership values most and that it would rely on to achieve its own objectives in a post-war world.” Read that sentence again, and think, under such a doctrine, what might the United States not bomb?

    Keep in mind as well that the bombs which annihilated two Japanese cities and ended so many lives 64 years ago this week were puny when compared to today’s typical nuclear weapon. Little Boy was a 15-kiloton warhead. Most of the warheads in the U.S. arsenal today are 100 or 300 kilotons – capable of taking out not a Japanese city of 1945 but a modern megalopolis. Bruce Blair, president of the World Security Institute and a former launch-control officer in charge of Minutemen Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles armed with 170, 300, and 335-kiloton warheads, pointed out a few years ago that, within 12 minutes, the United States and Russia could launch the equivalent of 100,000 Hiroshimas.

    It is unthinkable. It seems unimaginable. It sounds like hyperbole, but consider it an uncomfortable and necessary truth. The people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the children of our future need us to understand this and act upon it – 64 years too late… and not a minute too soon.

    August 5, 2009

    • It’s too bad BF, that we can’t just do away with ALL of the things along with all the wars.

    • Bama dad says:

      From The Tokyo Fire Raids

      “A successful incendiary raid required ideal weather that included dry air and significant wind. Weather reports predicted these conditions over Tokyo on the night of March 9-10, 1945. A force of 334 B-29s was unleashed – each plane stripped of ammunition for its machine guns to allow it to carry more fire-bombs. The lead attackers arrived over the city just after dark and were followed by a procession of death that lasted until dawn. The fires started by the initial raiders could be seen from 150 miles away. The results were devastating: almost 17 square miles of the city were reduced to ashes. Estimates of the number killed range between 80,000 and 200,000, a higher death toll than that produced by the dropping of the Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki six months later.”

      What is the difference between the first fire raid on Tokyo and the dropping of the two atomic bombs? Same results. On March 9-10 3674 crewmen risked their lives to drop thousands of bombs to achieve the same thing as 33 crewmen did to drop one atomic bomb. War is immoral however it is fought.

      • Black Flag says:

        Yes, Bama Dad, War is the Health of the State….. therefore, can be nothing but immoral.

  16. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Statism in any of its forms (Fascism, Socialism, and Communism) all fail in the long run because freedom is a requirement for innovation.

    Without freedom there is no innovation, without innovation there is no progress.

    The end result is stagnation and eventual decay.

    Freedom is the only thing that provides an incentive for people to be anything other than lazy. If you are fundamentally aware that your life is not going to materially change regardless of what you do, you will do the minimum possible to ensure your own survival and that is about it. If your survival is essentially assured, and you know that the State holds the means of production and all of the products which are produced, you will tend to do nothing at all.

    • There’s a reason the dark ages were the dark ages.

    • Not necessarily true, look at the USSR for example and the things they were able to produce and accomplish. Not a fan of communism myself and you could argue that the reason they did all this was to compete with the states. Did not turn out too well for them in the end though.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        The USSR was almost always 1 step behind the US in research in every way. Sputnik may have been an exception, but after that, they were behind and never caught up. Their system would have never allowed them to catch up, because they largely had to rely on foreign scientists to do the work for them that precious few of their scientists were capable of doing.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Peter – curious why you see Fascism, Socialism and Communism as forms of statism. These terms are often used in the modern right wing media as FUD to scare the bejesus out of anyone that may place a hairy eyeball on any one issue with the current Government, Congress and POTUS (Mark Levin spends SIGNIFICANT time in his work trying to convince everyone we are moving towards all the above or one of the above).


      from wiki: A major government or state role in the direction of the economy, both directly through state-owned enterprises and indirectly through the state-directed economic planning of the overall economy and/or A political viewpoint “that sovereignty is vested not in the people but in the national state, and that all individuals and associations exist only to enhance the power, the prestige, and the well-being of the state. The fascist concept of statism repudiates individualism and exalts the nation as an organic body headed by the Supreme Leader and nurtured by unity, force, and discipline.

      from Baradar, Leon P (Political Ideologies: Their Origin and Impact): as advocated positivistly by Hegel and Nietzsche that the state is created out of force (such that force dignifies the existence of the state). Hegel argued that while people derive meaning only through service to the state and that they become free only when they become subject to it, he did not advocate advocate a totalitarian state – he believed specifically that people should dedicate themselves to the state in political matters but that the state should not interfere in nonpolitical affairs (p. 239).

      The perversion of Hegel is what is found in Mussolini’s form or interpretation (mis-interpretation) of statism which has become known as fascism wherein only the state gave human beings their identity and only through the state could they reach a ‘higher life’. Moreover, fascism employs concepts of irrationalism (e.g. rejection of science and reason), elitism, militarism, and imperialism (p. 231). Nazi Germany is oft lumped into the fascist bucket although the element of racism was more prevalent in Germany than in Italy. Recognized fascist states have included: Japan (1930s and 1940s), Spain under Franco, Portugal under Salazar, Argentina under Peron, Greece in the late 1960s, Uganda under Amin, Chile under Pinochet and South Africa under apartheid rule (p. 231).

      The notion of communism and socialism –

      from Baradar (p. 154):

      Communism is oft suggested as the first mode of human social existence. Communistic societies are comprised of four essential properties: they are collective (people work and own in common), they are rural (it is only in recent history that communism was ever associated with urbanism), their economic base was agrarian and they are localized in orientation. Socialism by contrast, while collectivist, differs in that it is national in scope and is industrial and urban based. Far different than communism. The use of the capital “C” communism is usually used to refer to the Communist State that is more aligned in Marxist-Leninst ideology rather than pure communism.

      So – here is something else to think of – traditional communistic thinking (little c, not big C) usually occurs when a group of people abandon the societies they live in and flee to a communal farm – if think of ‘communal farm’ in the logical rather than literal sense does that sound like something familar?

  17. Jacob, age 92, and Rebecca, age 89, living in Florida , are all excited
    about their decision to get married. They go for a stroll to discuss the
    wedding, and on the way they pass a drugstore. Jacob suggests they go in.

    *Jacob addresses the man behind the counter: “Are you the owner?”

    The pharmacist answers, “Yes.”

    *Jacob: “We’re about to get married. Do you sell heart medication?”

    Pharmacist: “Of course we do.”

    *Jacob: “How about medicine for circulation?”

    Pharmacist: “All kinds ”

    *Jacob: “Medicine for rheumatism?”

    Pharmacist: “Definitely.”

    *Jacob: “How about suppositories?”

    Pharmacist: “You bet!”

    *Jacob: “Medicine for memory problems, arthritis, and Alzheimer’s?”

    Pharmacist: “Yes, a large variety. The works.”

    *Jacob: “What about vitamins, sleeping pills, Geritol, antidotes for
    Parkinson’s disease?”

    Pharmacist: “Absolutely.”

    *Jacob: “Everything for heartburn and indigestion?”

    Pharmacist: “We sure do…”

    *Jacob: “You sell wheelchairs and walkers and canes?”

    Pharmacist: “All speeds and sizes.”

    *Jacob: “Adult diapers?”

    Pharmacist: “Sure..”

    *Jacob: “We’d like to use this store as our Bridal Registry.”

  18. I wrote the guest article on Mother’s day and said:

    “I do not believe in a big conspiracy aimed at taking over our country. But I do believe we have communist front organizations that, after the cold war and the fall of the USSR, have stayed active in undermining our freedoms and promoting a socialist agenda. They have willingly partnered with Islamic organizations with similar goals. I think other foreign nations have contributed to or formed groups whose goal is a weaker America.”

    The following link asks, if you were to try to undermine the economy of the most prosperous nation on earth, how would you go about it?


    • Sounds just like right now don’t it? I just came from Fox where some moron was BRAGGING about this very thing. He (or she) was also including illegal immigration as a destablizing force. God, what are we heading towards????

    • Search the Web on Snap.com says:


      I saw this in a reply:

      Most of his “Czars” are avowed Communists, he surroinds himself with people of the same mindset he has. All the Presidents Czars are a government within the government, and at some point in the not to distant future, Chairman Maobama will cease to work through the Congress, and dictate through his (chosen) politburo.

      He has already started employing ACORN as his “National Defense Force”, SEIU is his “Labor” enforcement agency, and AMERICORP is his “Serve-or-Else” arm.

      This is scary to ponder. If Obama does indeed begin to work through the czars instead of Congress, can we expect the poop to hit the fan, or what?

      • Hello Searchlight,

        An interesting find. The Fannie/Freddie mess could only happen because they were exempt from real oversight. And who do the Czars answer to?

        I am also expecting ACORN to show up at some of these town hall meetings, the end result, people daring to question the healthcare
        agenda can be labeled “racist”.

        When it hits the fan, we will just be told it was another Bush screw-up, come to haunt us.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Its only scary to ponder because what you are offering is mere scare tactic rather than fact.

        “Most of his “Czars” are avowed Communists, he surroinds himself with people of the same mindset he has.”

        Can you please explain this? Rather than have a semi-intelligent conversation on positive-negative aspects of the “Czars” you resort to Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt or FUD.

        Please try again.



  19. Working in the School System here, it amazes me that, with all the money our great fuzzy warm government is spending for things such as analyzing gay Argentine men in bars, and giving millions to study sea turtles abroad, and sea otters off Californy, that the one thing we’re cutting the living hell out of; IS EDUCATION!!!

    Every school district I know of from every state is having to cut education funding. You would think we would be willing to ‘waste’ money on education spending so we could develop smarter generations of children.

    But, I guess if we made smarter children they’d be able to see through the bulldookey our Government is continuously spewing.

    We here in my County were ordered by our district to cut 5% of this years fiscal budget. And we are far better off than some states. We school workers were also given 3 furlough days this year. We don’t have to work, but we also don’t get paid. And they of course scheduled the days during existing school holidays.

    Sorry if I sound pissy about it when a lot of folks have lost their jobs completely. I’m not worried about 3 days spread out over a whole year. I’m pissed that they are cutting education for our children!

    I just know that somewhere some idiot has a job sticking a probe up a cow’s behind to study bovine farts on the atmosphere and his salary is coming from our education funding.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


      The first things that will always be threatened with cuts or actually cut are education and public safety (police and fire).

      Politicians dare not cut each other’s pet projects, and they dare not cut entitlement programs.

      The make cuts to education and public safety as their way of saying, “see what happens when you don’t want us to increase your taxes? Your kids suffer and you run a greater risk of suffering a loss from theft or fire, and your streets are not as safe!”

      This is just typical politics as usual. It is sad that they operate in this way, but that is what they do.

      • I wonder if any of the “blue” districts had their funding cut, since the teachers union was a big Obama supporter, he’s managed to pay back most who backed him.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          LOI – “he’s managed to pay back most who backed him” – what do you mean by that?

          “I wonder if any of the “blue” districts had their funding cut” – go research it and tell us! Maybe you’ll find it in a Montrose song lyric. 😉

  20. Hi All

    A new song for Obama instead of HAIL TO THE CHIEF, how about this one IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN, from the Wizard of Oz.

  21. BF,

    I copied this from an email newletter is get. What’s your take?

    Obama Administration Faces Stiff Resistance
    In Peddling U.S. Debt to Skeptical Global Buyers

    In the last several days, the U.S. Treasury suffered its very worst auction in five years. What this means, quite simply, is that foreign powers and other reluctant funders of rapidly-expanding Congressional spending are beginning to openly balk at getting sucked deeper and deeper into the U.S. financial cauldron.

    Meanwhile, the Associated Press just reported federal tax revenues are falling at a shocking 18% rate – the biggest year-over-year decline since 1932. This situation threatens to further widen the already massive $1.8 trillion current year deficit.

    Under Obamanomics, about the only thing selling well in our economy have been U.S. government debt instruments (in the form of Treasury bonds). But that is rapidly changing. Growing resistance to Obama’s debt futures sales are among the many “early warning” symptoms that the bottom has begun to fall out of the façade of U.S. solvency. For example, it raised more than a few eyebrows that a recent U.S. debt offering was actually larger than the cost of the entire Vietnam war.

    I agree with an alert sent this week to members of the Sovereign Society which states flatly: “Failed bond auctions in the West since October mark the beginning of a bear market in government bonds.” Another confirmation that unloading U.S. debt is becoming an uphill battle is that the world ‘s largest buyer of bonds, PIMCO, is mostly now only acquiring bonds with a very short maturity horizon of 2011-2012.

    The Bottom Can Fall Out of the Government’s
    Ponzi Funding Bubble At Any Time Now

    Confidence in Obamanomics is rapidly disintegrating. If bond-market financing of federal deficit spending continues at this rate, a tidal wave of massive money creation is going to swamp the U.S. with cheap new printing press money and crush the dollar.

    As reported in the August issue of Independent Living, Dallas Federal Reserve President Richard Fisher has estimated total U.S. obligations now top the equivalent of seven years of 100% confiscation of America’s gross domestic product – a black hole of $99 trillion in debt/obligations that is now far too deep for policy-makers to correct or fix even if our corrupt political establishment were to suddenly become responsible in its spending.

    Put another way, the U.S. financial system is on a road with no turns. If the bond market in U.S. debt continues to soften (much as real estate did starting in 2006), the potential downside is beyond imagination.

    I do not know how a total systemic collapse will unfold. But the potential is high, and whether it happens slowly or suddenly, you need to act now to educate and prepare yourself.

    • Black Flag says:

      Cyndi P

      In the last several days, the U.S. Treasury suffered its very worst auction in five years. What this means, quite simply, is that foreign powers and other reluctant funders of rapidly-expanding Congressional spending are beginning to openly balk at getting sucked deeper and deeper into the U.S. financial cauldron.

      True. But that merely means the Fed need to raise the interest rate, which will punish China (higher interest on new T-bills lowers the value of already bought T-bills), which will cause the Chinese to withhold trade, which will also mean that the Fed has to buy the T-bills – which will increase the inflation rate.

      Meanwhile, the Associated Press just reported federal tax revenues are falling at a shocking 18% rate – the biggest year-over-year decline since 1932. This situation threatens to further widen the already massive $1.8 trillion current year deficit.

      Nothing a little inflation won’t cure.

      Under Obamanomics, about the only thing selling well in our economy have been U.S. government debt instruments (in the form of Treasury bonds). But that is rapidly changing. Growing resistance to Obama’s debt futures sales are among the many “early warning” symptoms that the bottom has begun to fall out of the façade of U.S. solvency. For example, it raised more than a few eyebrows that a recent U.S. debt offering was actually larger than the cost of the entire Vietnam war.

      $24 trillion is a lot of money!

      I do not know how a total systemic collapse will unfold. But the potential is high, and whether it happens slowly or suddenly, you need to act now to educate and prepare yourself.

      The US government will default on its bonds and bills.

      The US$ will be saved – but the country…. That’s the trillion dollar question…..

    • Cyndi,

      What an outstanding find!!! I asked USW (or at least thought about asking)
      to identify the best post of the day. On behalf of myself, I award you
      ***** FIVE GOLD STARS.
      BTW, I have no ideal what all that T-bill stuff means, pretty sure, its not a good thing.

      • Thanks. I get a newsletter from here:

        Independent Living Newsletter

        P.O. Box 1240
        Clover, SC

        I think he hypes things a lot because he’s trying to sell you information. I went ahead a paid the money for the initial subscription but there’s always something else to buy. I think there’s a grain of truth to what he’s saying but I’m leery of the hard sell. I can send you a couple of recent samples of the newletters if you want. I’ll need an email address….

  22. Thanks, BF. Is my unease at the situation warranted? I want to deny what I see but my gut tells me I shouldn’t……

    • Black Flag says:

      Your gut is right.

      The only way out of the mess is a very long, harsh recession – given the example of Japan, probably in the time line of nearly 20 years. This means perpetual high unemployment (15%), low wages, and scarcity. Governments do not survive with this type of severity.


      High Inflation, (25%), erosion of wealth, high unemployment, and scarcity. Governments like inflation because it bumps up tax brackets and erodes debt. Countries do not survive for long under this type of severity.

      Pick one.

      • but I don’t want to…


        • I think there is another way out, just it will not happen without a huge change in who controls our government. AGW
          is a liberal myth, but that is what is used to stop and even retard our energy useage. An aggressive energy program, including oil, natural gas (ANWAR & offshore), nuclear, coal, etc., would result in lower energy costs, and an economic boom.

          • Couple that with eliminating business taxes and massive deregulation across the board and we’d hit the biggest boom ever known to mankind, it could pay off the trillions dollar debt and then some.

            But let’s just say that that course of action by any government would be extremely unlikely.

  23. Black Flag says:
    • What war? I was under the impression that this was merely an overseas contingency . . . 😉

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      BF – It is not a war – we are an occupying force.

      • Really Ray ? I thought we were keeping Afghanistans’ nukes out of the Talibans’ hands.Please inform me if I am wrong.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          Remove emotion for but a minute and think to what the legal definition of war may be – and how the notion of war has been politicized over the years such that anytime we see something we don’t like we declare war on it (poverty, drugs, terrorism, etc).

  24. I’ve been chatting with our friend across the pond, and he found something worth a look.

    Bob said
    August 5, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Have not read through it all myself but you may find it interesting.


    Insurance companies have a death grip on American health care and you probably wont see any reform happening anyway due to the millions insurance companies spend lobbying both democrats and republicans.

  25. Black Flag says:

    Ray Hawkins>/b>

    BF – to your statement: “China has long passed being Communist – it is moving closer, everyday, to more pure Capitalism. Private ownership and investment is the norm.” Where did you pull that from – especially the notion that private ownership and investment is the norm? I’m not certain there is anything factual to support that (pls correct me if there is) – most of what I have seen/read – even that which is anecdotal still points to heavy government influence and ownership – that which is not outright owned by the government is still heavily influenced by outright corruption and bribery similar to the Russian Oligarchs. The “title” may not say “Owned by the Chinese Government” but I believe it is damn near close.

    I have a number of friends in China (in business and teaching English), as well as anecdotal evidence from individuals who I work with –

    Oh, yes, Ray, the Chinese military does own most of the larger Chinese companies – but the influx of western companies, and with numerous private businesses and ownership is rampant. Vist Shanghai one day – its boggling.

    As I said, you don’t step on the tail of dragons – however, it is surprisingly more free than here – the major observable difference is in middle class wealth. A good salary is 1500 yuan a month – about $250/275USD, but it is climbing.

  26. Ray Hawkins says:

    How the Tea-Baggers are Like ACT-UP by Chris Hayes

    via The Nation (pls read first – some interesting reflective points here):

    There’s been some very interesting back and forth about the right-wing disruptions of health care town halls in the Twitterverse and Blogosphere (oh God, did I just type those two words back-to-back?). One of the fascinating aspects of a political culture in which governmental control has flipped, in a relatively short period of time, from the right to the left, is that each side now finds itself making arguments the other side was making only a little while earlier. The Left accused (rightly!) Bush of using fear-mongering to push the nation into pre-emptive war. During the stimulus debate, the Right turned around and used the same talking points, accusing Obama of using fear-mongering to push through $770 bn in public spending.

    I don’t want to create a false equivalence here. There are very real differences between the rhetoric and approach of left and right, but it’s certainly the case that we often use formal arguments (so and so is fear-mongering) as a way to widen the possible appeal for our substantive, ideological pre-commitments. In the case of the Iraq war, it was a terrible idea no matter how it was sold, and I think the right-wing would say the same about the stimulus.

    I’m on a team in American politics: I’m proudly, vigorously on the left. So there’s no need to bend over backwards to be formally consistent. That said, intellectual honesty requires one to separate out one’s formal objections from substantive ones and I’ve been given pause by the remarks of some right-wing activists like Jon Henke. He and others have been saying: wait a sec, when the left shows up and makes noise somewhere it’s activism, but when the right does it it’s thuggery and mob rule?

    So after discussing the issue on Maddow last night, I’ve been asking myself, aside from the deep substantive opposition I have to the tea-baggers’ ideological agenda (and the insane hypocrisy of people on Medicare screaming about the dangers of government-run health care), what, exactly, my beef is?

    I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with the tactics of those people who, with the facilitation of large monied interests, are organizing and shouting down their opponents at town hall meetings. But one thing should be clear: these are the tactics of a small, motivated, enraged and engaged minority. The footage of recent town hall scrums remind me, actually, of ACT-UP actions back in NYC when I was growing up. ACT-UP, the AIDS and gay rights group that flourished in the 1980s and 1990s, was impassioned and angry and used dramatic confrontational action to great public effect. They were a vanguard. They were a small, tightly coordinated impassioned minority. And they were fundamentally on the right side of history.

    What frustrates me, however, is that no one in the press confused ACT-UP with broader public opinion. No pundits said “the public is clearly feeling rising unease about government inaction on AIDS, as evidenced by the latest ACT-UP protest.” Why? Because they were gay, and they had AIDS and they didn’t look like “average citizens” or “heartland” voters.

    At their root, the town hall protests are a very similar phenomenon. I think these people, unlike ACT-UP, are wrong. Deeply wrong. (They’re also not literally fighting for their lives because of a homophobic and indifferent government, but that’s neither here nor there). But they’re a small, tightly coordinated, enraged minority. They want to scream and fuss, it’s a free country, as they say.

    The problem is the overwhelming instinct on the part of pundits and the MSM to look, and see old white men in overalls and Legionnaire hats and think they are watching someone give voice to the sentiments of broad swaths of the electorate. And it’s just not true. What we’re seeing at these events are the voices of radicals, extremists and zealots.

    • Interesting article. Completely false on it’s merit and facts, but what would one expect when one admits his status. At least Hayes can do that.

      The problem is the overwhelming instinct on the part of pundits and the MSM to look, and see old white men in overalls and Legionnaire hats and think they are watching someone give voice to the sentiments of broad swaths of the electorate. And it’s just not true. What we’re seeing at these events are the voices of radicals, extremists and zealots.

      This statement alone is the biggest line of bullshit I’ve read today. The Left’s answer to everything is “it’s small, and don’t mean nothing”. Problem is, if were that way, noone would give it any thought! But here we are, talking down the seniors, who have a clue bye the way, with no intelligent evidence to support the claims. Organized and financed, as the Left would like everyone to believe, is like the bullshit Global Warming caused by humans fairytale. It don’t exist!

      Ray, this is not intended at you directly, rather the author that you posted.

      I answer him with this: There are 23 million vets, 80 million gun owners with 270+ million guns, and we will stay free! Your asshole author might want to get that little note, feel free to send it to him.

      (Sorry for the bad words, but felt it was needed based on having to read what stupid authors on the left say)


      • Ray Hawkins says:

        G – I think Hayes made some interesting points. I’ve been in a conference all week so I have not seen much video. I give Hayes credit that he has some nads to at least offer that not all leftist movements are squeaky clean.

        • Ray, Like I said, nothing against you at all, actually, I’m happy you posted it. My issue was equating todays events, to a ACT-UP issue. They are far different in context and should not be even considered in the same subject. But htis is the leftist way, they seem to be able to dish it out as they see fit, but can’t handle it when they get it back. problem is, they may get more than they bargain for.

          Peace to you and your family


    • I have to agree with Gman…this runs alot deeper and is pushed by alot of good Americans…that want their voice heard. They are not all conservative, they are not all white, they are not all employed. These people want their voice heard. They are tired of working for nothing but tax money. They are tired of government ruining everything from the post office to social security. The people have began to fear the wolf.
      Most people are smart enough to realize that a program that is not good enough for elite is not going to be good for the average Joe either. They are smart enough to realize it does not take over 1000 pages to fix the healthcare problems. Most people are just tired of the elite treating them like they are idiots. They know that the people pushing this health care plan have not even read it. They know there is no money to pay for it. They are tired of bills being shoved thru just to satisfy an agenda. WE THE PEOPLE ARE TIRED, BUT WE WILL NOT WEARY.
      Mr. Hayes needs to step down into the real world for a few days and listen to the concerns these people have. They are real and they deserve to be heard regardless of what Mr Hayes thinks.

      • Amazed, You got that right. I do want to credit Ray for enlightening us on this. All the media talk about how this is organized and such is pure BS. It’s real, it’s growing, and I live in a very left leaning area.

        Still LOVE MY COUNTRY!


  27. bama dad says:
    • Next they’ll be suggesting cull. Actually, I think I read a UK news article about that. I’ll give you one guess as to which group they’ll recommend for culling……hint: its American.

      • Nah! They can’t cull us. We got guns to defend ourselves with. If they want to die, then let them com.

        • Hey Esom,

          If its just a couple of environazis, we won’t have to worry. If its done under the auspices of the UN, we might be in serious trouble. I’m afraid that’s how they’ll try to do it. Those people are seriously nuts. It only takes a couple of nuts in the right places to make it happen. Look at what Hitler did to the Jews. I think it could happen again if people choose to be willfully blind. After the war, the German people claimed to have not known. I think they knew, they just chose not to believe….

    • Where are the calls to limit immigration? As Mr. Spock would say, logic would dictate that immigrants to the US adopt the high greenhouse gas emissions lifestyle of native born Americans, therefore if we limit or restrict immigration we are doing at least as much to help the environment as aborting our children.

      So we, Native born Americans, have to self destruct to save the planet. People who come up with these “solutions” should be locked up as dangerous to both themselves and others.

  28. Hi All

    Found this on the Fox News site. Don’t know if anybody has already seen this or not, but thought I would put it up just in case not.


    Democrats are stepping up their campaign against opponents of health care reforms, depicting town hall audiences protesting a Democratic-sponsored bill as angry mobs duped into hostile actions by special interest groups.

    The Democratic National Committee released a Web video and e-mail on Wednesday blasting opponents of the 10-year, $1 trillion plan.

    Titled “Enough of the Mob,” the ad warns that the “right wing extremist base” is back after losing the presidential election, a series of legislative battles and the confidence of Americans.

    “Now, desperate Republicans and their well-funded allies are organizing angry mobs — just like they did during the election,” the ad says. “Their goal? Destroy President Obama and stop the change Americans voted for overwhelmingly in November.”

    The ad goes on to dismiss the protests as “mob activity straight from the playbook of high-level Republican political operatives. They have no plan for moving our country forward, so they’ve called out the mob.”

    The e-mail outlines what it says are five facts about the “anti-reform mobs,” including an accusation that these operatives are trying “to intimidate and silence regular people who just want more information.”

    “It’s time to expose this charade, before it gets more dangerous,” Jen O’Malley, head of the DNC, said, urging recipients to pass it along.

    Republicans have seized on the charges.

    “Instead of acknowledging the widespread anger millions of Americans are feeling this summer toward Democrat-controlled Washington, Washington Democrats are trying to dismiss it as a fabrication,” House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a statement. “That isn’t likely to sit well with Americans outside of Washington who are struggling and wondering when their elected leaders are going to wake up and change course.”

    The Republican National Committee fired back with an e-mail titled “THE MOB? Hey Democrats, They’re Called The American People.” The e-mail goes on to list a series of links to stories and polls revealing growing doubts about Obama’s top domestic priority and his economic policies.

    And the Libertarian Party said Obama, a former community organizer, should think twice before approving a campaign that attacks communities for organizing, even if it’s against him.

    “Libertarians find it ironic a community organizer is now using the government to try and stop people from organizing their communities,” Libertarian National Committee spokesman Donny Ferguson said in a statement.

    “Instead of using official edicts to smear, slander and intimidate everyday Americans into silence, Democrats should listen to the majority of Americans and drop their plans for a radical government takeover of their health care.”

    With the House on a five-week recess and the Senate soon to follow, a public relations war over health care reform has erupted and spilled into town hall meetings where Democratic lawmakers have come face to face with furious protesters.

    On Tuesday, House Minority Leader Steny Hoyer faced a group of protesters, including one who wondered what the hurry is. He argued that Congress is trying to push the bill through more quickly than it took President Obama to choose his dog.

    Also Tuesday, Freshman Democratic Rep. Frank Kratovil of Maryland was escorted by sheriff’s deputies out of a town hall meeting attended by hundreds of protesters.

    Several others have faced hostile crowds, including Health and Human Service Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and recent party-switcher Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

    Four of five congressional committees have approved versions of the sweeping bill, but lawmakers fell short of Obama’s deadline for the House and Senate to vote on legislation before their August recess. That set up a September showdown on the legislation and all sides have moved into high gear.

    White House spokesman Robert Gibbs on Wednesday said the protests are being fueled by misinformation and scare tactics, prompting concerns about a government takeover.

    “This is part of I guess what we have to do, which is push back on what we knowingly know is not true,” he said. “Am I going to convince people who are hanging congressman in effigy about the details of the health care plan? Probably not today.”

    Gibbs repeated his belief that the Republican National Committee and private groups are orchestrating the protests.

    “I think there is a lot of manufactured anger going on,” he said.

    DNC spokesman Hari Sevugan sent an e-mail noting reports that Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, Conservatives for Patients Rights and America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) are among the groups helping to orchestrate the protests.

    A spokesman for AHIP told FOXNews.com that his organization has only encouraged employees to participate in events on health reform.

    “AHIP has not been behind the protests and those kinds of disruptions that have been occurring around the country,” said spokesman Robert Zirkelbach.

    A spokeswoman for Americans for Prosperity, told FOXNews.com that her group has played only a limited role in organizing protesters.

    “We’ve been encouraging people to go to town halls in their areas and make their voice heard on health care and cap and trade,” said spokeswoman Amy Menefee, adding that the group has not told people what to say or how loud to say it.

    Indeed, Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, suggested it’s the White House that is attempting to intimidate opponents.

    On Tuesday, the White House issued a blog post by Macon Phillips, director of new media, asking supporters to send “fishy” information received through rumors, chain e-mails and casual conversation to a White House e-mail address, flag@whitehouse.gov.

    Cornyn responded by accusing the White House of compiling an “enemies list.” In a letter to the president, Cornyn urged Obama to provide Congress with more details on what the White House plans to do with anyone reported for “fishy” speech.

    “I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests,” Cornyn wrote.

    “You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights,” he wrote.

    • Judy,

      I think they’re laying the ground work for something. I mean, several months ago they labeled anybody who opposed them a potential terror threat. Now they’re asking for names, and framing protesters as a mob. I see a perfect storm coming…..

    • I just saw this:

      I’m guessing that ACORN will soon show up at the townhall meetings with the swastikas….The Left thinks the opposition is as mindless as their minions. What Pelosi forgets is that the Nazis were SOCIALISTS! I still think they’re up to something.

      • Hi Cyndi P.

        What are they going to do, arrest everybody who protests, let them try. I think it’s called FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and until they take that away, we have every right to protest. This is turning into a dictator ship and I’ll be damned if they are going to take away my freedom to speak. I read where they called one person a mob, some guy named Scott something or other.

        Yea, they’re up to something alright, but just exactly what, and that’s the scary part. I don’t think you’re too far off about the socialism Cyndi, that’s what it really looks like it’s staring to become, and we had better find a way to stop it before it;s too late.

        I said a while back, that they won’t be happy until they are involved in every aspect of our lives and then we’ll really be in trouble. This is all happening way too fast, and I think it’s only a matter of time before we see him wear the Gestapo hat.

        This country is going to hell in a hand basket, and it’s going pretty damn fast.Something needs to be done, and done now.


        • Hi Judy,

          I think I’d rather be crazy than right in this case…..


          • I’d like to think you’re neither there Cyndi.

            • I think, no, I know that the dems are crapping their drawers at all this firestorm about UHC.

              They didn’t think it would happen. They don’t know what to do now that it has. Far from quieting down, it’s only getting louder.

              Be interesting to see what Obama does when it finally sinks in that his healthcare plan is not wanted. Be interesting to see IF he sees and just ignores the will of the people.

              All these ads and commercials and things being said by the Dems are backfiring on them faster than they can put them out.

              According to the polls, support for UHC is steadily dropping. Everyone knows Health Care Reform of some kind is needed. What folks are getting afraid and pissed about is the fact that the Government is trying to get in the Health Care business. Our Govt in ANY business is always a disaster. Even most morons know this.

  29. Black Flag says:

    Bill Clinton is an evil man. Let no one misunderstand that.

    He used his influence and international power, and freed two innocent women from hell.

    Let’s not forget that either.

    • Black Flag says:

      Only Nixon could go to China.

      Only Clinton could go to North Korea.

      • Amazing he could do it, and Obama couldn’t. Or did he have Clinton go there?

        • Black Flag says:


          Obama Ok’d the flight – but had no influence.

          It was because they were Gore’s employees, but Gore was banned from N. Korea.

          Only Bill Clinton could walk the razor wire between unofficial and influence.

          • What I find amazing is, that Hillary is Secretary of state, and she didn’t go. Oh that’s right, they said she looked like a school girl or hooker or something, I forget which.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      BF – if I crossed ‘your border’ would you consider me “innocent” (and whereupon you have served notice that no one should ever cross your border)?

      • Black Flag says:

        IF the ‘border’ was a free man’s land – then they had no right.

        IF the ‘border’ was a slave holder’s stolen land, who seized the land from free men, then my attitude may be different.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          The land you live on now – possible it was once stolen from a free man?

          Philosophical rhetoric aside – just as with the campers in Iran – those two women knew they were playing with fire and they were burned.

          • Black Flag says:

            I agree, Ray, those women were incredibly stupid to test North Korea’s resolve.

            I, myself, would not have made such a test.

            Yes, it was possible. But there is no one who can support the claim.

            I posted once about the three ways one ‘owns’ land…..

  30. Black Flag says:

    ALEXANDRIA, Va. – A former Louisiana congressman was convicted Wednesday of taking bribes in a case in which agents found $90,000 in his freezer.

    Former Rep. William Jefferson, a Democrat who had represented parts of New Orleans, was accused of accepting more than $400,000 in bribes and seeking millions more in exchange for brokering business deals in Africa. A federal jury convicted him on 11 of 16 counts, including bribery, racketeering and money laundering.

  31. Like I said before, and I’ll say it again. When we lose all our freedom that we have, then we have lost everything.

    Yes, I know, to some here we already have, but I like to think we haven’t.

    • Read the repsonse to Ray’s post #26, you might get a bit of a laugh


      • Read it, and I like the answer that you and Amazed said to him. What I get out of that is, we’re the radicals, and they aren’t. They just don’t get it, what we in the real world see what they don’t or won’t get.

  32. This news gets better and better – NOT. Didn’t we hear the MSM proclaim housing is on the rebound?


    • Maybe just a little bit, but not much. Here in Reno, people are still facing foreclosures, but yet a few houses have sold, but way below the asking price.

      I think as soon as Obama is out of office, things will pick up. But unfortunately we have to wait 3 more years for it to happen. I heard on the new a few days ago, they said the economy was picking up a little, but not enough to help.

      • I heard also that the only banks that won’t help people to modify their mortgages, is BofA and I think Wells Fargo, not sure. That’s terrible when your bank won’t negotiate with you to help you lower your payments. Ours did, and it really helped out. May not be much, but if we can save an extra $300 a month, I’ll take it.

    • Cindy, The only thing I see on the rebound is the true freedom loving Americans, who have been quiet for a long time. Quiet is ending, and fast.


  33. I am going to say good night to all. Will catch you all tomorrow.

    Restful slumber and peaceful dreams.


  34. Hi Everyone,

    Been on the road for a few days and just catching up with everyone’s comments.

    The healthcare townhall meetings and the reactions have been interesting. The polys truly don’t get it and expected to come in with their talking point cards handed out before the break and be able to sell us. This business about us being paid and supported by the RNC and large insurance companies. What a cop-out – I’ve received no money to attend and voice my opinion! The true feelings of Washington towards the American people is coming out and it is getting ugly and will get worse – they just can’t help themselves with their utter disdain towards us regular people. And the poor MSM – they put everything into this Obama administration and now watching it all going down is more than they can handle – their fingers are pointing in all different directions and the name calling is unbelievable.

    Ironically, Obama spoke in Indiana today and I was listening to WGN out of Chicago report on it tonight. They showed the streets lined with regular people holding signs voicing their displeasure with everything from Obamacare to reading the bill. Then they mentioned that “supporters of Obama’s plans were bussed in” and then showed a clip of and angry man screaming at the sign holders. And the whitehouse has the gall to say what is manufactured????

  35. CARACAS (Reuters) – Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Wednesday called on his U.S. counterpart Barack Obama not to send more troops to Colombia, saying there was no military solution to the 4-decade-old conflict.

    The United States and Colombia are preparing a military pact to increase the number of troops in the Andean nation, drawing criticism from several nations in the region.

    (Reporting by Ana Isabel Martinez)

    Anybody notice that Obama is refered to as Chavez’s “U.S. counterpart”? Is the US President usually compared to a dictator? Or is it just me and a slanted observation?


  36. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    GREAT economic news today has the stock market poised for another rally.

    You see, the GREAT news is that new claims for unemployment were ONLY 550,000 last month! They were expecting 580,000.

    Isn’t it FABULOUS news when over half a million MORE people just lost their jobs last month! Let’s celebrate!

    • We’re gonna party like its 1999!!!!

      Haven’t tried to check, what the real un-employment #’s are? Total jobs lost, and not seeking work. And they will extend un-employment benefits again, so why try to get a job?

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        I read somewhere that if you add up the number of “official” government-counted unemployed, add the number of people that have been out of work for so long that they are no longer counted as “officially” unemployed, and then also add the number of people that used to have full-time jobs but now have part-time jobs, the number of unemployed plus the number of chronically under-employed comes to about 17%.

        Will have to find the article I read and provide a link… I will try to do so shortly.

        • Black Flag says:


          I agree with that stat.

          For Bob and Chris

          In a free market there is no unemployment that persists that isn’t chosen by the workers themselves.

          That’s because the price of labor is continually fluctuating based on supply and demand.

          Everyone who wants to work can work, simply because we live in a world in which there is always work to do. We know this because in 1960 there was 180 million people in the USA, and today we have 300 million. There is proportionally the same increase in labor and in jobs. Somewhere, there is always work to do.

          Only artificial interventions can generate the unemployment problem we have today.

    • Black Flag says:

      The market is in denial. They are pretending the cliff does not exist and they can walk on air.

      Do not trust the mainstream advice on how to survive economically. There absolutely nothing between the ears left.

  37. Black Flag says:


    Simple Black Flag, pure capitalism does not work because people are assholes and people are stupid, this applies to every -ism you can think of.

    The Statist stance to a “Perfect T”:

    -Hates people (except themselves)
    -Claim people stupid (but they are smart and know better)
    -Does not trust freedom (except for themselves)

    Unless your dream world involves people stuffing their mattresses with their money and not making any investments or bank holdings at all there is going to be trouble.

    Why? Can you explain your economic theory how storing wealthy ‘causes trouble’?

    There are people in the financial sector that would not even think twice about screwing over thousands of people to add an extra zero to their bank account.

    I’m sure. They are mostly in government.

    Which is why people should be careful to whom they give their money to, right?

    Look at the current crap the banks have been doing, in a perfect world we would have let them collapse due to their incompetence, I know people say it was all the democrats/republicans fault but I didnt see any bankers objecting as they were giving themselves millions in bonuses as they were mislabelling toxic assets.

    First, the banks were not incompetent. They knew exactly what they were doing.
    Secondly, the bankers did not ‘mislabel’ toxic assets. The term ‘toxic assets’ has no meaning in economic or accounting. It is either an asset or it is a liability.
    Thirdly, it is the government by law mandated the loans, and the FED who – by demands of successive administrations – kept the interest rates artificially low that gave rise to a housing bubble.

    -isms can look great on paper but when we enter harsh reality they fall apart, we have had brief periods of anarchy throughout history but they never last.

    You live anarchy everyday, as people have for most of their lives for the last 10,000 years. It is so easy and comfortable, that you don’t even notice.

    Whenever there is a power vacumn there will be someone who will fill it, we are pack animals.

    We are social animals, with intellect. Civilization exists because of it. Civilization is at war with Government – they have opposing premises.

    Regards the NHS, again it has been running since 1948 your chicken little warnings which have been said throughout its existence by others as well have yet to come to pass.

    I guess you haven’t noticed that the UK is teetering on complete financial collapse?

    It is easy to forget that one of the largest company on Earth by assets, the Bank of Scotland, is operating essentially under bankruptcy.

    The Royal Bank of Scotland was on the brink last night after the biggest loss in British corporate history sparked a collapse in its shares.
    Billions of pounds were wiped from its stock market value despite the Government’s pledge to keep it afloat with more money from the taxpayer.
    As Gordon Brown set out plans to increase public ownership to 70 per cent of what was once one of the world’s biggest financial conglomerates, City investors dumped the shares in a selling frenzy.

    Also please tell me how the poor gets its medical treatment, if you are on minimum wage and have kids and you are stuggling to put food on the table how are you going to afford health care if you get ill?

    You get insurance before you get ill.

    I am not wise enough to tell anyone how to spend their money. It’s their money, and their lives and their choices. All actions have consequences, and those that act shall bear the consequences.

    Woah BF have you been to China other than going to Beijing?

    Shanghai – I thought that was clear in my post, but maybe not.

    Go to some of the more rural villages before you start talking about pure capitalism. I was out there back in 2003 for work commitments and you must have gone to a different China than me.

    Perhaps you missed my response post to Ray.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      People ALWAYS say that anarchy cannot work because people are greedy and people are stupid.

      WAIT A MINUTE! That is EXACTLY why GOVERNMENT does not work!

  38. Trying to remember, what kind of plane does Nancy fly on?

    the House approving more than $500 million for eight passenger jets, when the Air Force only asked for four


  39. Sorry to come in late on this one. Had an idea the other day re: the town hall meetings.

    If given the opportunity ask the following:

    “All can agree that there is fraud, waste and abuse in the current government subsidized health care programs such as Medicare and Medicaid. Most representatives in favor of the new plan before congress say this will be addressed in this new plan. How about we address the fraud, waste and abuse first. If the government can show that they are capable of fixing a relatively small problem over th next few years, then we , the people, may be more willing to let them change the entire healthcare system. We, the people would then have a better guarantee of potential success of what is being offered.”

    The same question can be asked of immigration. The so called reform bills claim they will deal with the borders but they want us to accept that on faith. Prove that you can do the easy part first, then we can talk of legalization.

    I plan to attend Congressman Steve Rothman’s town hall meetings in notoriously liberal Bergen County NJ and try to ask these questions. I don’t suspect we will get any answers, the sole purpose will be to try to get others to think on the issues.

    Oh, by the way, the NY State Comptroller admits that there is approximately 1.5 billion dollars of fraud and waste annually in the NY system. So, if asked you can back up the statistic.

    • Damn SK, good idea. Let them fix Medicaid and Medicare FIRST. Not after.

      Let them fix immigration FIRST. Not after

      Because if it’s after, it won’t ever get done.

      It’s funny to me how all this Govt crap is broken, but instead of fixing it, they just want to add to it.

      “Gee, we have 10 billion in waste in this program last year! Let’s give them 100 billion more!!!” 😯

      • v. Holland says:

        The government isn’t going to fix it-We the People have to fix it-My big question is HOW! I vote-call my reps., send e-mails to the media, give money-hasn’t helped-seems like no one is getting what they want the liberal or conservative.

        • Black Flag says:

          Stay tuned, V. Holland!

        • May God have mercy …

          from Denninger’s blog and zerohedge and others …

          Remember the Dallas Fed’s Fisher saying that “The Fed will not become the handmaiden of Treasury”?

          He was lying, and now there is proof.

          Mad props to both Zerohedge and Chris Martenson for noticing this; I missed the facts buried in the CUSIP list.

          The upshot: The Fed bought nearly half of LAST WEEK’S 7 year Treasury Issuance TODAY.

          Huh? Remember, after the 5 year auction that went badly (and which I wrote about) the 7yr auction went “well.” Rick Santelli (and a lot of other people) agreed – demand was strong. That made no sense to me at the time, coming one day after a near-failure in the 5 year.

          Well now we know what happened: The Fed pretty clearly pre-arranged, either explicitly or by “suggestion”, that the Primary Dealers take up the auction with the promise that The Fed would immediately monetize half the issue!

          Folks, this is beyond bad – it is pernicious and outrageous conduct by The Federal Reserve, which is now desperately trying to prop up the US Government Bond Market through subterfuge rather than just buying up the bond issue from Treasury when originally put to the market!

          If you think the economy and credit markets are “on the mend”, then why would The Fed do something like this? It would not be necessary unless The Fed was told (by those very same Primary Dealers) that they were going to be unable or unwilling to take down any more Treasury Debt.

          Folks, let me be clear: The United States HAS OFFICIALLY HIT THE TREASURY DEBT WALL and The Fed and Treasury are engaged in subterfuge and conspiracy in an attempt to hide this from the market.

          There is no other explanation for what just happened.


          When the market figures this out and the consequence sinks in – we had two failed Treasury Auctions last week, both 5 and 7 year – the consequences could be extremely severe

          • v. Holland says:

            I must admit that I’m economically challenged and I don’t completely understand what you just said but I do realize that the Fed manufacturing fake money is bad-I can’t help but think if it can stop government from continuing to borrow money and to just face up to the pain now, maybe things would get better, if it could stop the government from continuing to spend-am I even close to figuring all this crap out or am I way off base.

            • Last week, the Treasury auctioned $27billion in 7year bonds. The day before a large amt of 5year bonds had been held and was less than successful. These bonds are made available to a limited audience. Foreign central banks and ‘primary dealers’ make up the bulk. The primary dealers are obligated to bid on the bonds (bid amount is not explicitly stated in the formal agreement,)

              The bonds are the heart of the ‘full faith and credit of the US’…They have never held an unsuccessful auction. A failed aution would stated in words of one syllable the US primary dealers (hand picked buyers) and Foreign Central Banks do not think that the US can meet its debt obligations.

              Karl Denninger is stating that Treasury and the Fed are using the Primary Dealers (the largest of which are GS and JPM) to bid on and buy Treasury debt and then purchase it back not but five days later in a money creation/laundering scheme designed for what can only be one purpose – to HIDE the fact that they are printing FAR MORE money than the $300 quantitative easing announced by Ben Bernanke. This indicates COLLUSION between the Fed, the Treasury, and the Primary Dealers.

              The real danger is that the Chinese and other sovereign holders of our debt immediately end all buying activities from the Treasury. That is the collapse of the dollar and the freight train Black Flag talks about.

              (BF if I’ve made errors or done a poor job of explaining this, please correct me .. ty)

              • v. Holland says:


              • v. Holland says:

                You did a great job -thank you!

              • V — you’re kind — that was not an example of coherence. On a good day, I can string words into sentences that actually make sense. Hope that bourbon went down smooth. c

              • v. Holland says:

                It did actually, which means I probably should get off of here, I love the relaxation benefits but it doesn’t take much to make the mental abilities go away.

          • Black Flag says:


            Don’t worry – it means what I said above – it means inflation will replace the recession.

            If the gov. stopped spending, the people would nation-wide riots. There are too many entitlements that too many people depend upon to live. The chaos and destruction would be the end of the country.

            So, the gov. only has two games – recession or inflation.

            The FED buying the bills – without increasing the interest rate – will create inflation. They did not increase the interest rate to appease China.

            There is a lot of deep, interrelated economics – but take this away from all of this.

            There is nothing the government nor the FED can do to avoid a calamity. The only thing they can do is prepare to suffer the calamity that can be suffered – a generation long recession.

            That would essentially collapse the federal government as we know it – SS would end, no Health Care, no Medicare, cut backs broad, unemployment at a steady 20% and across all things. But the nation would survive and we’d make it out of the darkness eventually.

            The gov. will avoid this scenario like a plague. It will end the fed as a powerbase, and the gov. could no longer bribe the people to gain power.

            The only other route is inflation. If the inflation crosses 25%, the FED has lost control, and the world as we know it will end.

            I mean end.

            Millions will die. The end of the division of labor -which a modern industrial society depends will end.

            If you do not know how hitch a horse to a plow, you will die.

            V., pick one scenario of these two. There are no other scenarios.

            • BF,

              Where’s the best/most reliable place to monitor the inflation rate?

              • Black Flag says:

                Commodities Exchange Market.

                CPI and all other measures are so adjusted and manipulated, its tough to get any indication.

                But the price of food – people need to eat – so it will follow the ‘real’ inflation rate.

              • Thanks, BF. But is there anywhere on line? I don’t really buy groceries. I’m not kidding. I have a meal card and eat in the chowhall. I’ve noticed that the prices have gone up on tooth paste, shampoo, etc. Will those track along?

              • Black Flag says:

                You bet.

                I’ll find a link for commodity prices.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Will oil?

            • v. Holland says:

              I think tonight I may have to go have a bourbon and be like Scarlet and worry about this tomorrow.

              • v. Holland says:

                I think the last comment I am going to make tonight is: don’t worry, be happy, and trust in the Lord-Good night guys!

  40. Black Flag says:

    Many want to know “what to do” to help survive economic calamity.

    Here is a hint.

    As long as government controls your money, you have a problem. Solve the problem.

    Compares -How Much things cost on Aug 15th, 1971- to what they cost today.

    Dow Jones Industrial Average
    890 or 25 oz. gold in 1971,
    9,000 or 10 oz. gold today.

    Average Cost of new house
    $25,250 or 721 oz. gold in 1971,
    $250,000 or 277 oz. gold today.

    Average Income per year
    $10,600 or 302 oz. gold in 1971,
    $70,000 or 77 oz. gold today.

    Average Monthly Rent
    $150 or 4.3 oz. of gold in 1971,
    $824 or 1 oz. of gold today.

    Datsun 1200 Sports Coupe
    $1,866 or 53 oz. gold in 1971,
    $28,400 or 31 oz. gold today.

    Now I am thinking to myself, “It seems that there should be a message in there somewhere, but what?”

    I hope your asking yourself that same question.

    Conclusion: If your money is dollars, you live in an inflationary world. If your money is denominated in gold, you live in a deflationary world.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Currently, the US government mints gold coins in sizes as small a 1/10th of an ounce. At a reputable coin dealer at the current price of gold, you can purchase these for around $95.00 or so.

      If you are lucky enough to have a job, you could purchase one of these per month. The price of gold will obviously fluctuate, so if you are lucky and the price drops you will get them cheaper. If the price of gold rises they will be more expensive.

      If you dillengently purchase one of these every month, in 13 years and 4 months you would be the proud owner of a “pound” of gold (16 ounces of gold isn’t really a pound, a troy ounce is more than a standard ounce, but you get the idea).

      Even 16 ounces of gold isn’t going to totally assure you of financial security, but if something aweful happens, it will get you a lot farther than someone who is only holding dollars.

      • v. Holland says:

        Okay, BF and Peter,IYO, if I had some money to buy gold, should I buy these smaller coins or just invest in gold?

        • Black Flag says:

          V. Holland

          It depends on what you think may happen in the near future.

          Gold is going up – nothing can prevent that. So, how to do you profit from it?

          * Shares in Gold Mining Co. are heavily leveraged to the Gold Price.

          Why? It costs money to mine gold. Say it costs $800/oz to mine gold. @ $900, the company makes $100 profit. If gold moves to $1100 – the company makes $300 profit – a 300% to their bottom line! Happy days! Shares prices go through the roof! It works backwards too – so there can be a lot of ‘saw-tooth’ movement in share prices.

          Some problems:
          – many gold mining companies have ‘forward sold’ their gold.

          What is that? Instead of actually mining the gold, they’ve left it in the ground but sold the gold as if it had been mined. So, say it cost them $400 to mine and the price was $600 – they sold the gold @ $600 with a promise to mine it at some future date. Gold is now $900 – really good for the guy who bought the promise, not good for the mine. They still need to mine the gold, but do not get the high price – PLUS time has gone by, the cost of mining has gone up – and they have already spent the $600 on a nice office and new chairs…..

          These companies will not see their share price go up with the uplift of gold prices.

          Therefore do your homework.

          * Gold ore in hand

          Three primary ways to hold gold – bar or coin or jewelery.

          – Jewelery: this is by far the most common store of gold. Traditionally people turned gold to jewelery so they could wear it – that is, it goes where ever they go. They always knew where their wealth was – around their neck.

          Problem: huge uplift over the price of raw ore – could double the price. Selling jewelery for ore value is a large loss of value. The gold content will need to be assayed.

          – Coin: closely follows the price of gold, but has a ‘numismatic’ cost on top of it – you are paying a premium because it is a coin – add about 5% to ore price. Also, it is suffers supply/demand issues independent of the gold demand. Example: Eagles are not being produced by the mint. Thus, the price of Eagles is going up faster than the price of gold.

          Plus: mobility and faith. It is easy to sell – most dealers have a mechanical device that proves this is a real coin of gold. This size and shape are very fixed and standard, so they can put it in a device and if it balances, it’s a real coin.

          They are easy to carry – you can hide them discretely on your person. They come in all different sizes. They are also pretty.

          Ore – very small commission fee over spot price. Cheap – also available in very large bar sizes – 100 and 1000oz are the most common.

          Problem: storage – if you have it stored, there is a usual 1% fee per year. Why do you want to have it stored? So you can sell it. If gold is never actually delivered, but held in trust at a storage facility, it never has to be tested for its faith. But you have to pay the fee AND it is not in your hand.

          If you take it in hand and want to sell, it will take some time. They buyer will need to assay your bar – test its purity and weight, before they buy. You have to pay for that assay, one way or another (he will discount it from his sell price or you pay directly out of pocket).

          • Black Flag says:

            Also other problem with gold mining.

            There is gold in North America, but it most of the cheap stuff has been mined out – so most of the high profit mines are else where on earth.

            Reasoning follows that the easy gold in nice places has all been mined – thus, the easy gold in the world is located in ‘not nice places’ – where access is hard, but mining is easy.

            So there is always a large risk in some gold companies that really bad government may decide to steal the gold after it has been mined.

            Do your homework

  41. Black Flag says:

    Psychological barriers hobble climate action

    Wednesday, August 5 09:04 pm

    Psychological barriers like uncertainty, mistrust and denial keep most Americans from acting to fight climate change, a task force of the American Psychological Association said on Wednesday.

    Policymakers, scientists and marketers should look at these factors to figure out what might prod people take action, the task force reported at the association’s annual convention in Toronto.

    While most Americans — 75 percent to 80 percent in a Pew Research Center poll — said climate change is an important issue, it still ranked last in a list of 20 compelling issues such as the economy or terrorism, the task force said.

    Despite warnings from scientists that humans need to make changes now if they want to avoid the worst effects of climate change, “people don’t feel a sense of urgency,” the association said in a statement.

    Numerous psychological barriers are to blame, the task force found, including: uncertainty over climate change, mistrust of the messages about risk from scientists or government officials, denial that climate change is occurring or that it is related to human activity.

    Other factors include undervaluing the risk. Even though an international study showed many people believe environmental conditions will worsen in 25 years, that could lead some to conclude that they don’t have to make changes now.

    Some people believe anything they do would make little difference and they therefore choose to do nothing.

    Habit is the most important obstacle to pro-environment behavior, the task force found.

    But habits can be changed, especially if changing saves money and people are quickly made aware of it. People are more likely to use energy-efficient appliances if they get immediate energy-use feedback, the task force said.

    It identified other areas where psychology can help limit the effects of climate change, such as developing environmental regulations, economic incentives, better energy-efficient technology and communication methods.

    Yes, folks!

    If you hold to scientific fact, standards of reason and of experiment proof, the American Psychological Association (a medical ‘practice’ which in its rich history has cut out people’s brains, electrocuted them, and drugged them with poisons — all in the name of a ‘cure’) now claims you must be mentally ill not to believe in Gore.

    They want to ‘change your habits’ and ‘prod you’.

    Be afraid, good people. The forces of evil (as I’ve posted before) are organizing powerful psychological tools to influence and alter your behavior.

    Seize your own mind before they take it away from you.

    • v. Holland says:

      I’m reading a book by Dean Knoonz and on his dedication page he wrote this: “This trilogy is dedicated to the late Mr. Lewis, who long ago realized that science was being politicized, that its primary goal was changing from knowledge to power, that it was also becoming scientism, and that in the ism is the end of humanity.”

      • Black Flag says:

        What book is that, V. Holland.

        I completely agree with Mr. Lewis.

        We are moving from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Endarkenment.

        • I remember Lysenkoism from our High School discusions of why the Soviet Union would eventually flop.

          These days I use it and Lysenko as examples of perverted science. I tend to draw blank stares.

          How many Real scientists I wonder, perished in the gulags because they insisted on real science?

        • v. Holland says:

          The trilogy I’m reading is called Frankenstein by Dean Koontz, which is more of a fun read if you enjoy thrillers but there are many meanings in his stories if you care to look a little deeper. The Mr Lewis he is referring to is C.S. Lewis.

          • v. Holland says:

            He also has this direct quote from Mr. Lewis, which I believe you will agree with-“I am very doubtful whether history shows us one example of a man who, having stepped outside traditional morality and attained power, has used that power benevolently.”

      • I’ve read some Dean Koontz, but I like Sci-Fi and Military stuff better. I’m reading David Weber right now. “By Schism Rent Asunder” 2nd book of a trilogy. So far there’s just 3 anyway.

        • v. Holland says:

          Will have to check Weber out-have never read anything by him-but I am always looking for new authors-I like Koontz because his books seem to have many principals hidden in them and I like to find them.

    • I guess I’m one of the ‘tards then. ‘Cause I don’t believe a word of it! 😕

  42. PeterB in Indianapolis says:


    More politics as usual. If the democrats think that the wealthy are evil, why are so many of them wealthy and why do they accept huge contributions from the “evil wealthy?”

    • These folks are the “too rich to be affected by any tax hikes”. They have too many ways to get out of them, or in the case of the Lawyers, The Democrats do not favor tort reform. The rich they talk about spreading their wealth from are the ones who make more than you or me, but aren’t rich enough to get out of the taxes.

  43. The APA were partly responsible for me NOT pursuing my Masters in Psychology back in the 1970’s after the Army. We were warned as undergrads in the ’60’s of their adgendas. Don’t want to start another war here but they were the ones who decided that homosexuality was no longer an aberration but normal. That took them seven years to pull off at their annual conferences.

  44. The recession is starving the government of tax revenue, just as the president and Congress are piling a major expansion of health care and other programs on the nation’s plate and struggling to find money to pay the tab.

    The numbers could hardly be more stark: Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression, while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.


    • Black Flag says:

      The government does not need taxes for income.

      It will sell more T-bills to the FED.

      This will cause inflation.

      • BF, heard yesterday that the Govt had an action to sell T-Bonds. The lenders balked and didn’t want to buy them. What does that say?

        • Black Flag says:

          It says the offered interest rate was too low.

          They may raise the interest rate.

          This will punish those that did not buy. Those did not buy these T-bills are the ones that have bought all the previous T-Bills; when interest rate goes up, the value of lower-interest rate T-bills drop like a rock – they lose their ‘liquidity’. People sell T-bills before they come due, at a discount for immediate cash. If the interest rate is lower than what someone can buy a new T-bill at, the old T-bill is further discounted so to sell. The seller loses more money.

          Thus, the ones that did not buy, but are holders of older T-bills, will suffer ‘paper loss’. If they are government, it doesn’t matter. If they are private, the paper loss is a real loss. So, not buying will punish the not-buyers-but-holders.


          There is a buyer of last resort – the FED – the FED will buy the T-bills, holding down the interest rate, but this will increase inflation significantly.

          It may also insist on a higher inflation rate, punish the bond holders, but high interest rate will dash any hope of a recession recovery. Credit markets, all ready tight, will tighten even further.

          Are you and everyone else getting the sense that all roads lead to a cliff?

          • I’m not just geting a sense of a cliff, I’m looking hard trying to see how much longer before we go over it.

            I guess from what I have seen so far that Obama purposely wants the Government to fail.

            I wonder what language we need to start learning now. Mandarin?

            • Black Flag says:

              The Chinese are learning English, but it wouldn’t hurt to meet them halfway.

              Obama is not ‘purposely’ wanting Government to fail – precisely the opposite. He wants to get the game going.

              But what’s happened is the People, in the economic action, has called their bluff. The current disaster is not the Elite seizing control – it is the Elite losing control.

              The Power Elite have the most to lose as this situation develops. They are doing everything they can to rally the masses, build illusions, and have staked themselves (and most of us) on their prayer of success.

              But it won’t happen. Eventually the water moves the rock. Eventually, gravity wins.

              The question is merely, have you un-staked yourself away from government?

              • Unfortunately BF. When everything collapses, I’m just screwed. I’m too broke to do anything. ALL that I CAN do, I’ve already done. That’s why you can probably see from my posts that I’m getting more and more furious as time goes by and see that the insane have taken over the asylum.

                I am just praying for more time to do as much as I can to get ready for the fall, because any moron can see it coming now.

              • Black Flag says:

                Other things then money.

                -Get to know your neighbors, especially those that have weapons. Gain their trust. You’ll need it.

                -Begin learning about the grey-market and the black-markets; you’ll need to know how to get things when the things you need no longer appear in a store.

                – Gather family or move to family. They are natural allies in a crisis.

  45. Black Flag says:

    Blatantly stolen from another site…

    Why is Obama wiing? Simple. The voters think theft by government is a good thing.

    That’s the bottom line.

    Segments of the public oppose this or that government wealth-redistribution program.

    But with respect to the biggies, they agree with Obama: we need more government money.

    Which are the biggies? Social Security, Medicare, health insurance, public education. What do they have in common? They replace the family. They tell families, “You don’t have to finance these any more. The government will do it. Stop worrying. Eat, drink, and be merry. Go back to sleep.”

    All the rest of it is just a mopping-up operation.

    Conservatives bought into the public schools no later than 1880.

    There was no identifiable conservative movement or even political philosophy in 1880. Everyone bought in. The public schools gave a monopoly over education, age 6 to 18, to people who believe that the state has a right to mold the minds of our children.

    That was when conservatism lost the war. The war had not even begun, and it was lost.

    Then came Social Security in 1936. That was a copy of Bismarck’s old age pension system: mid-1880’s. The state would care for us in old age. Social Security is politically untouchable.

    Then came Medicare in 1965. This merely extended Social Security.

    These two programs will bankrupt the Federal government. Statisticians knew it then and a few said so. No one listened then. No one listens now.

    Now we will get national health insurance. That covers ages 18 to 65. That’s it. That covers everyone except those under age 6.

    Universal child care is next. So far, that one has not flown. But it has its supporters.

    All of the kicking and screaming and sending out warnings is futile. The deal is done.

    It was done in principle the day Americans decided that the state would teach civics and everything else to a captive population of children.

    Americans spend over $350 billion a year on higher education, and 95% of this funds the Left. The rest funds engineering. Add to this K-12 spending per year: $970 billion. Most of this is tax-funded.

    Obama is merely mopping up a victorious campaign.

    Conservatives pretend that every one of these past disasters is tolerable. It’s the next one that threatens us. Please. Spare me the rhetoric.

    From the “Revolution that was”

    It began as follows:

    ” There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.”

    Obama and his successors will win the war until the money runs out, meaning until the dollar is busted. That may take decades. Or it may not. The Federal deficit is huge. Someone must fund it. Who?

    Eventually, the state goes bankrupt. That will come. I don’t know when, but it will come. Then Obama and his heirs will lose. They have bet the farm on the dollar.

    They will lose when technology delivers education for free. That is nearly here. Doubt me? Look here: http://www.KhanAcademy.org. That is the model.

    For as long as the yellow public school buses are rolling, we are involved in a holding operation against a tried-and-true offensive operation — an operation funded by us.

    We gave our children to the state. We paid the state to take them away. You think we can roll back the welfare state for as long as the yellow buses roll?

    Technology is on our side: decentralizing. The red ink is on our side: destabilizing.

    Here is our #1 job: to do our parts, one by one, to fund or create an on-line educational alternative to the tax-funded public schools. Take your kids out of public school and school them at home. Until a pervasive alternative is in place, we will be fighting a rear-guard action.

    The biggest job will then be at hand: to convince a generation of peoples to preach this commandment: “Thou shalt not steal.” And this one: “Thou shalt not covet.” That will be the hard part. It will take several generations.

    The world believes this: “Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.”

    That is why Obama is winning

  46. Morning All

    Pulled this off Fox News, thought maybe you’d be interested in case nobody as read it yet.

    Hope all will have a good day.


    WASHINGTON — Conservative activists are vowing to keep up their fight against President Barack Obama’s health care plans, even as the Democratic Party pushes back hard, accusing Republicans of organizing angry mobs.

    Democrats and the White House are claiming that the sometimes rowdy protests that have disrupted Democratic lawmakers’ meetings and health care events around the country are largely orchestrated from afar by insurers, lobbyists, Republican Party activists and others.

    “This mob activity is straight from the playbook of high-level Republican political operatives,” the Democratic National Committee says in a new Web video. “They have no plan for moving our country forward, so they’ve called out the mob.”

    Some of the activists who’ve shown up at town hall meetings held recently by Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., Rep. Steve Kagen, D-Wis., and others are affiliated with loosely connected right-leaning groups, including Conservatives for Patients’ Rights and Americans for Prosperity, according to officials at those groups. Some of the activists say they came together during the “Tea Party” anti-big-government protests that happened earlier this year, and they’ve formed small groups and stayed in touch over e-mail, Facebook and in other ways.

    But they insist they’re part of a ground-level movement that represents real frustration with government spending and growth.

    “There isn’t any group that’s backing me, who’s influenced me, who’s pushing me to do this,” said Robert A. Mitchell, a small business owner from Doylestown, Pa., who questioned Specter at a weekend town hall event about lawmakers failing to read legislation.

    The exchange was captured on YouTube and has spread, along with other videos. One showing protesters mobbing Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas, includes footage of someone holding a sign showing Doggett with devil’s horns; another shows Kagen shouted down at a forum at a library.

    Mitchell said he was angered by push-back from the White House and it would motivate him to further activism, a view echoed by others.

    “These are town hall meetings, and the federal government is trying to intimidate people,” Mitchell said in a phone interview Wednesday.

    Republican Party Chairman Michael Steele defended the activism, even as he denied the party was organizing it.

    “We are not inciting anyone to go out and destruct anything,” Steele told reporters on a conference call. “We’re encouraging people to go and visit their congressman or their senator.”

    “To sit back and say that this is some Republican cabal is a bunch of baloney,” Steele said.

    Obama referenced the opposition in a fundraising e-mail sent by his political group, Organizing for America, and asked his supporters to attend events to show their support for his health care plans.

    “There are those who profit from the status quo or see this debate as a political game, and they will stop at nothing to block reform,” the president said. “They are filling the airwaves and the Internet with outrageous falsehoods to scare people into opposing change.”

    The protests have echoes not just of the Tea Parties held around tax day this year, but also of protests during the Florida election recount in 2000 and in the early- to mid-1990s, when Hillary Rodham Clinton traveled the country to promote then-President Bill Clinton’s health overhaul plan, which ultimately failed.

    There’s no doubt government attempts to change health care can incite real anger. In 1989, a pack of screaming senior citizens angry about a planned change to Medicare surrounded the car of then-House Ways and Means Chairman Rep. Dan Rostenkowski of Illinois. They shouted “Liar!” and “Recall!” and hit Rostenkowski’s car with picket signs.

    Congress subsequently undid the Medicare change.

    One thing that’s different this time around is the Internet, which allows groups to communicate and mobilize on a large scale.

    “We definitely use all the tools at our disposal,” said Amy Menefee, director of communications at Americans for Prosperity, which is encouraging its many thousands of members to attend town hall events and is sending buses around the country, making stops for rallies and at some town halls.

    Democratic lawmakers insist they won’t be cowed. The only way to respond is to try to get out the message about what’s really in the health care plans before Congress, they say.

    “My concern is that some will be reluctant based on this experience and others around the country,” Doggett said in an interview after describing the scene outside a supermarket in Austin, where he said activists shouted down constituents who came to ask questions. “We can’t let mob rule determine this.”

  47. Black Flag says:

    In discussion things like the Health Care Initiative, and Government in general with a people is that economic theory and human action (Praxeology), concepts of rights, freedom and justice are complex and involve many abstractions of human thought.

    It takes a lot of explaining and dialogue to establish even the basic understanding – and this takes time – and usually far more time than most people have patience.

    Instead, Statism has no such requirement. It is simple, precise and takes less than a minute to fully explain itself.

    When Bob or Chris throw out their version of rights – they do not need to explain it or prove it. For them it is a given inside an emotional context of ‘need’. Since one cannot disprove an emotion, they feel they have no obligation to prove anything derived from their emotional context. QED.

    But a rational concept of rights requires significantly much more. It needs to be derived from the Natural Laws of Man, and his requirements to obtain the items of his survival in a physical world.

    That conversation takes longer than the three minutes allotted by most people’s attention span.

  48. A friend of mine just sent me this, thought I’d pass this along to everybody.

    To bad our President can’t be like this, instead of a whimp.


    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd

    – Australia

    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

    Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques.

    Quote: ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.’

    ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the Language!’

    ‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

    ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

    ‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.’

    ‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
    Maybe if we circulate this , American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.

    If you agree, please SEND THIS ON..

    • Don’t count on OUR Govt saying that. It doesn’t fit the Democrat ideals of asskissing. (I wish they would too Judy)

    • Black Flag says:

      I wonder what the Aborigines have to say about that – like you must speaking the local language, and having to abide by the original society’s rules and all….

      I guess White Man “Do as I say, not as I do” is the standard.

      But what do you expect from a bunch of children of notorious criminals…..

      • I think they’re the exception to the rule here BF, don’t you think.

      • Black Flag says:

        The moment you apply a different set of morality to another group of people, you destroy your own freedom.

        The greatest ill of humanity is that we institutionalize our ego’s.

        You see yourself as an American, or a Christian or a Russian or a Muslim – when, in fact, we are merely “Human”.

        “Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism….

        Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate.

        Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot.

        It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others.”– Emma Goldman

  49. Richmond Spitfire says:


    I was just reviewing some of the postings on a FOX News article re: Critics Accusing White House of Playing ‘Big Brother’.

    One of the posters had a wonderful idea and suggested that people start copying portions of the Health Care Bill and sending it to the “Report Fishy Information” Email Address at the White House with a note attached saying, “This sure seems Fishy to me”.

    I would like to suggest that you take Blag Flag’s Posting (pasted below) from Last Week’s Open Mike Night (Post #42) and choose a page and do as the man suggested and copy that page, highlight the area that Black Flag pointed out and shoot it off to flag@whitehouse.gov with a note indicating how fishy (or whatever) that proposed section of legislation is and the reason you feel it is fishy.

    Black Flag…Do you have a link to the Bill?

    Does anyone see any severe negatives by doing this?

    Best Regards to All,

    Here’s Black Flag’s Posting:

    Black Flag said
    August 1, 2009 at 2:38 pm
    I’d like to read Chris’ comments on this Health Care Bill
    Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure. Can you imagine what that will do to small businesses? Every one will abandon “self insurance” and go on Government insurance. So when Obama says that there will still be private health care, it’s simply a lie: this mandate will force employers to abandon their private plans.
    Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – a Government committee will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
    Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill – YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).
    Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!
    PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
    Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
    Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for electronic funds transfer
    PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).
    Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.
    PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.
    PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your Healthcare!
    PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill – Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example – Translation for illegal aliens.
    Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
    PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members – your Health care WILL be rationed.
    -PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill – Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
    pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.
    pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.
    Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
    Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
    Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
    pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who don’t provide public option pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
    Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income.
    Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
    Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.
    PG 203 Line 14-15 HC – “,The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.
    Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
    Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill – Doctors – doesn’t matter what specialty – will all be paid the same.
    PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.
    PG 265 Sec 1131Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
    PG 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
    PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!
    Page 280 Sec 1151 The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions.
    Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission – Government will penalize you.
    Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.
    Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion – Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.
    pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!
    Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures which of course forces health care rationing.
    Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Government plan.
    Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
    Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. HC by phone.
    PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.
    Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
    PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
    PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
    Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “advanced care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates.
    PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
    Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
    PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
    Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services/Non profit orgs. (ACORN Medical Services here?)
    Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)
    PG 489 Sec 1308 The Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Government into our marriages.
    Pg 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. You’d better speak up now before you are on the “advanced care consultation” list.

    • Hi RS

      Why not just take the whole thing and send it over stating that the whole bill sounds fishy? What can they do? Just a thought on my part.


      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hey Judy,

        Actually, that was what the poster suggested. I changed it up a bit because I felt it would be more effective to be more specific as to why sections are fishy…

        I would just say that if you plan on doing it, do whatever you feel is best!



        • A negative to sending anything to that web site is they will then have your email. Anyone feel like an IRS audit?

          • On second thought, never mind.

          • Richmond Spitfire says:

            Could a pseudo-email address be set-up? If you have to give a secondary email address, then set-up a secondary pseudo-email address.

            • I’m going to have to give this one some thought. Don’t want to do anything that will come back and bite me in the butt, ya know.

            • Flag or G! might be able, not for my poor ‘puter skills.

              And just because your paranoid, doesn’t mean someone’s not out to get you!

            • Black Flag says:

              One can gen up a Hotmail address, and use that.

              • I’m with LOI on this one, I don’t have the computer skills really do that. Besides, I really don’t want to do anything that will get me or the lab in trouble here.

              • Wouldn’t it still have the ?ip address? — whatever it is that identifies the machine you’re using — would a public machine (library etc) with a free email avoid that issue…?…

              • v. Holland says:

                In all probability the government has people reading this site-so maybe all the caution is a waste of time.:)

              • Hey V,

                Let them read it. Heck, let them read everything. No different than them listening in on our phone conversations if that’s what they do.

                I think they’re the paranoid ones anyway.

              • v. Holland says:

                I agree that the government is paranoid, but when we(the People) are talking about the government I don’t think one can be paranoid, we might need to figure the odds of probability but I don’t think that is a matter of paranoia.

              • I haven’t got a clue. When it comes to setting something up on a computer, I have my son do it, he’s the computer whiz in the family. Not calling the rest of my family dum dums, but he can do things with computers that you wouldn’t believe.

            • hushmail.com

    • Black Flag says:

      Click to access BAI09A84_xml.pdf

      Senate version of the Bill

    • I just copied and sent all those to the web site you posted asking them if this is what they wanted reported as fishy. I only copied and pasted the page numbers and what they said.

    • I just spent some time reading the actual house and senate bill, I am not enough of a lawyer or language expert, and gave up. This seems to be the only translation available. I really like:

      • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

      • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

      What’s your favorite?

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Uh, no.

      • Page 59 lines 21-24 – government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electrical funds transfers.

        Not the government. Again. You will have to approve an electronic (not electrical!) fund transfer if you want to pay your premiums that way. It will be the private insurers who process this, like Blue Cross, Aetna, etc. How do you do it now?

        I pay all monthly/etc. bills by personal check. Any company that requires direct access to my account for automatic withdraw does not get my business. They insist its their standard procedure, and I walk out the door.

        • Black Flag says:

          The gov. already has access to your bank acct.

          • How do you figure that?

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              They don’t Judy – its just more FUD

              • FUD mu ASS! I know from PERSONAL experience they have access to your checking account.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Esom – I’ll avoid arguing over your ass – but I would be curious with regards to why you think the government “has access to my bank account”. I’ve worked extensively with the USSS and just spent the better part of a week with them.

              • Black Flag says:

                I’ll answer, Ray, since I raised it.

                Because they do.

                All transactions are reported to the government under the Anti-Money Laundering Acts

                If they want your account, they get it.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Black Flag – AML laws do not require that the government have access to your bank account. Its not the same thing.

              • Richmond Spitfire says:

                Dagnabit…I knew I would find the rest of my name here – FUD(d).

                Best Regards,

                P.S. What does FUD mean?

              • Black Flag says:


                see # 68 for FUD definition

          • v. Holland says:

            BF, I am not sure how you manage to make me like and respect you when you’re statements constantly depress me. It must be that standing on principal thing you do.

            • Yea, he should be smacked for that one. I like him and have a great respect for him as well. Darn that BF.

            • Black Flag says:

              Ah, because the Universe always wins!
              So, never fear or worry!

              Once in a while my pocket Aces vs. pocket 2’s gets beat.

              But eventually, I end up with all my opponents money.

              As Reimer said (a WSOP Champ): “You may have a lot of my chips right now, but by the end of the week, I’ll have your house”.

              Its the same every where in the Universe – eventually, the good guys win.

              Take the long term.

              Yes, that may mean our kids will get freedom – but that’s the duty most parents willing accept – today we are slaves but tomorrow they are free!

          • In theory, they have to have a lien and warrant before they can take my money out of it. Due process, etc.

            Noticed above you advised Esom to befriend people who are good with firearms, think you just told your granny how to suck eggs.

      • Wonder why they don’t call him a Czar?

        A Health Choices Commissioner who would head a new federal agency called the Health Choices Administration. The commissioner would be appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.

        Under Section 203, the commissioner would specify each year the health benefits and benefit levels (four levels are statutorily required based on cost-sharing) for health plans that participate in the national exchange,[13] consistent, of course, with congressionally determined benefit requirements. The commissioner would also establish a process for a phased-in enrollment of eligible individuals[14] and small businesses, and would have the authority to expand eligibility for enrollment in the exchange as the commissioner “deems appropriate.” Assuming full implementation, the Lewin Group estimates that the number of Americans with private coverage would fall from 172.5 million to 83.4 million, or a 48.4 percent reduction in private coverage.


      • Earl H said
        August 6, 2009 at 4:46 pm

        Since we can agree on Politifact: I make no such agreement. I will agree to be open minded, and continue looking for facts. But here is what they said. A comment for you at the bottom.

        • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure! False: Section 113 of the bill requires the Health Choices commissioner to conduct a study to make sure health reform does not unintentionally create incentives for businesses to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of insured plans. There is no mandated audit.

        • Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed! False: Section 122 outlines broad categories of benefits that must be included in an essential benefits package. It prohibits cost-sharing for preventive care and limits annual out-of-pocket spending to $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family, indexed for inflation. It says nothing about rationing or limiting treatment.

        • Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process) Barely True: Section 123 establishes a Health Benefits Advisory Committee that makes recommendations on what types of health insurance coverage will be defined as basic, enhanced or premium. The committee will be chaired by the surgeon general, with members appointed by the president, the comptroller general, and representatives of federal agencies. This committee makes recommendations on insurance regulations, so in that sense it does set standards for benefits. But it does not make decisions about treatments for individuals.

        • Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None. Pants on Fire!: Section 142 outlines the duties of the Health Choices commissioner, who is charged with regulating insurers. The commissioner should seek insurers to offer different types of insurance, including basic, enhanced and premium. Individuals will be able to choose among competing insurers who are regulated via the exchange.

        • Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services. Pants on Fire! Section 152 includes a generic nondiscrimination clause, which says insurers may not discriminate with regard to “personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.” It says nothing about “non-US citizens” or immigrants, legal or otherwise. In fact, the legislation specifically states that undocumented aliens will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page 143.

        • Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard. Barely True: Section 163 sets out goals for electronic health records. It says one goal should be real-time confirmation of which services a person qualifies for and how much they will have to pay. That could be achieved by machine-readable beneficiary cards, according to the legislative language. But the legislation does not require the cards.

        • Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer. Barely True: Section 163 sets out goals for electronic health records. One of the goals is to include features that “enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation” between payment and billing. The legislative summary says the intent in the section is “to adopt standards for typical transactions” between insurance companies and health care providers. The legislation generically describes typical electronic banking transactions and does not outline any special access privileges.

        • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN) . Pants on Fire! Section 164 creates a temporary reinsurance program to help employers or employee associations pay for coverage for workers ages 55 to 64. It does not mention labor unions or community organizer groups, though presumably they could qualify for subsidies like any other employee association that previously offered health insurance. The section’s point, however, is to offer subsidies to employer-based insurance programs, not unions or community organizers.

        • Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange. True. Private health care plans must conform to government rules to participate in the exchange, and this page begins an explanation of exchange rules. However, the requirement that insurance companies must conform to is also presented much earlier in the bill. We spotted an earlier reference on page 15, Section 101.

        • Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans) . Mostly True. Section 203 sets rules saying that plans must offer basic plans before they can offer plans with extra benefits. These extra benefits are defined as enhanced plans and premium plans. (The unstated assumption here is that enhanced and premium plans will be more profitable for the insurance companies.) But this isn’t the page number that requires health plans to participate in the exchange. Technically speaking, private insurance plans are not required to participate. Rather, only insurance sold on the exchange will satisfy the mandate that people have health insurance. In effect, private health plans that want to sell to individuals will have to sell through the exchange, under the terms of the bill.

        • Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens. Half True. Section 204 outlines more regulations for health insurance plans in the exchange. One of the requirements is that they provide “culturally and linguistically appropriate communication and health services.” Another part of the bill mentions that this includes “effective methods for communicating in plain language.” There is no mention of citizenship status.

        • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan. False. Section 205 says the Health Choices commissioner is charged with publicizing the options on the health care exchange. The legislation says the commissioner “may work with other appropriate entities to facilitate the dissemination of information.” The bill does not mention ACORN or Americorps. The bill also says that the commissioner must publicize the “Exchange-participating health benefits plan options,” which would include private insurance plans.

        • Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter. False. This page describes people who would qualify for Medicaid, a government insurance program for people with very low incomes. It says that individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid only if they have “not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.” So the auto-enrollment only happens if they have not chosen another plan.

        • Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed. Barely True. Section 223 discusses how the government will pay doctors under the public option health insurance; they will pay 5 percent more than Medicare pays. It’s true that this section does not set out any sort of judicial review, but it specifically states that health care providers do not have to accept patients under the public option. The bill also says that the Health Choices commissioner has the authority “to correct for payments that are excessive or deficient,” taking into account “amounts paid for similar health care providers and services under other Exchange-participating health benefits plans.” There may be a broader case to be made that the government can outcompete private insurers through the public option, but this section of the plan doesn’t have to do with lawsuits or judicial review.

        • Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages. Barely True. Section 225 discusses payments for physicians who choose to accept the public option insurance. Again, there may be a broader case to be made that the government can outcompete private insurers through the public option, but this section of the plan only applies to payments to doctors for patients who are part of the public option. The government does not set wages for doctors because doctors are free to decline to see the patients.


        As stated, I think both sides are twisting things. It seems funny to me that if this is a written “contract”, we should be able to get a strait answer on the meaning of their written words. But then, they have made it very complex, so two or ten different lawyers would find that many different meanings.

        I have not seen you comment on the Franks video I posted, where he states his desire for single payer, meaning total gov. control.

        Obama during his campaign also spoke in favor of single payer.

        SS was a small program when started, many promises were later broken. Income tax started as a one or three percent flat tax.

        I think most here support health care reform. I feel it should start with tort, medicare & medicaid reform. Fix those, then tell me how they can deal with the larger issue.

  50. Black Flag says:

    Click to access getdoc.cgi

    Here is the version that is sitting in the House right now. It is a bit different from the one above.

  51. Black Flag says:

    Today is the 64th anniversary of the First Nuclear War.

    Asked about the prospect of a nuclear war within the next ten years, the 76 nuclear security experts he polled came up with an average probability of 29 percent. Four respondents estimated the risk at 100 percent, while only one estimated it at zero.

    It has been suggested that our children run a 1 in 10 chance of dying in a nuclear war in their lifetime.

  52. Black Flag says:

    “The United States is now in a position to clear all peacekeeping arrears accumulated from 2005 to 2008 and to meet our obligations in full for 2009 — currently estimated at approximately $2.2 billion,” Rice told a U.N. Security Council meeting on peacekeeping.

    A billion here a billion there – why not? It’s just digits in a computer.

  53. Anyone want to see a “clunker” disabled as mandated by the government?

    • Richmond Spitfire says:


      Thank you for sharing…This makes me sick!

      My daughter (19) can’t afford a car. She has to rely on me to take her to work; I am unable to transport her to College, so she’s not going.

      Our great legislators should have put in some form of amendment to CARS that would allow turned-in vehicles to be used by folks who can’t afford a car for like 2 or 3 years.

      On another note — what about the pollution they are creating by destroying the engines like this…looked like oil was spewing from that engine.

      This really, really makes me angry.


      • Its been said, ” for every action, there is an equal, opposite reaction”. (think flag posted that back in May)

        Action: government passes auto stimulus = 3,500-4,500 trade-in bonus

        Reaction: those who can afford a new car, trade in their modern, high value used car for the additional $3,500 bonus.

        We, the American workers pay for this. All of us, as all payroll deductions go to the general fund, that is written government IOU’s when they remove money from SS or FDIC, like the T bills are US IOU’s. When the note is due, it will affect all who work.

        Apply same logic to healthcare. Government mandates.
        Action: Most will have almost no choice but to enroll or switch.

        Reaction: It will be underfunded, requiring massive expansion of funding, but there will be no choice after its started, to continue, no matter what the cost.

        Remember Hawaii had state health care for children, lasted seven months due to people dropping their coverage for the “free” state program.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        If your daughter is really interested in college, but getting there is a problem, you might have her look into on-line opportunities.

        There are colleges and universities that are fully accredited which offer great degrees through strictly on-line classes. Some disciplines like the sciences do not lend themselves well to this due to the difficulty of doing lab work in an online setting, but most majors are certainly available, even some in the sciences.

        Grants, student loans, and the whole gamut of “financial aid” are available for online education as well.

        Your daughter would of course miss out on the “social” aspects of college life…. This could be a bad thing or a good thing depending on how you look at it 🙂

        Not sure if this is something that would even interest her, but I thought I would at least bring it up. If she does look into it, make sure you both “do your homework” and find an institution which is well respected, recognized, and fully accredited.

        BF might well argue that college is completely superfluous and unnecessary. I am not certain I would go that far myself. If your daughter is interested in obtaining further education but “traditional” college or university doesn’t look like an option, there are other options out there.

        • Richmond Spitfire says:

          Thank you Peter, we’ll be looking into those…There is a Certified Nursing Assistant Program she wants to attend at a local college across the town; then work at one of the local hospitals in that capacity while she furthers her education by obtaining a nursing degree.

          The problem is that I have 2 much younger children who have doctor appts, scouts, school activities, etc. that would conflict with her schedule — basically, I can’t be at 2 different locations at the same time.

          For some strange reason…money has become VERY tight 😉

          Best Regards,

          • That’s the reason why my youngest went into the National Guard, so they pay for his medical schooling. You don’t think we or he can cough up $300,000 for that. Plus he has some other perks he gets from them anyway.

            In fact, when we took him out of the 10th grade, he finished his schooling online, then he got his diploma. He did it through a school from Scranton Penn, and I believe at the time it was call Thompson High School. Not sure what it’s called now though.

    • v. Holland says:

      Such waste, does make one sick, if they would just let things happen naturally, our world would be a much better place. With time, gas guzzling cars would have gone away naturally without having unintended consequences.

  54. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    The larger a government gets, the more it either hates God or embraces God entirely. There is a reason for this. The main purpose of government is to control the people. This means that the government MUST CONVINCE THE PEOPLE THAT IT KNOWS WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES DO.

    This leads to some governments hating God, because some religions teach that God gave people free will, and the idea of people having free will contradicts the desire of the government to control them.

    This also leads to some governments embracing God entirely, because some religions teach that God is all-powerful, and you must obey the will of God. This leads some governments to become theocracies and claim that they are the sole interpreters and arbiters of the “will of God”.

    Either way, the government either seeks to replace God or to become God in the neverending quest to control you.

    You see, if you realize that government is made up of nothing other than people; in fact, people who are just as fallable as you are, then you are going to be far more inclined to trust yourself and your own judgement rather than trusting in the judgement of some group of fallable people that claim to have authority over you.

    It doesn’t even matter IF YOU VOLUNTARILY CEEDED AUTHORITY TO THESE PEOPLE! In fact, voluntarily giving up your own authority and giving it to others who do not even know you is probably the biggest crime that you can commit as a human being, because it is precisely the equivalent of indentured servitude. This, I believe, is at root why BF is against the practice of voting.

    If you really think about it, your vote SHOULD really be a piece of paper which says, “I voluntarily cede my personal authority to Politician X, who knows better than I do how I should run my life. Therefore, Politician X is now granted the authority to run my life and the lives of those around me, and I will even let Politician X and the other Politicians take money from me and from those around me to better enhance their ability to control all of our lives since they have a far better idea of how I should live my life than I myself do.

    I bet you never realized that is what you were doing when you voted, now was it? 🙂

    What we are voluntarily doing is elevating a set of mere people to the status of “more than people” and giving them the ability to tell us what we can and cannot do. Even if a law that they make is an immoral law, we are compelled to follow it, lest they punish us. If we dare to speak up and tell them that the law was immoral, they have the ability to tell us either, “God and morality as you see them are no longer relevant” or, “We are the rulers because of the will of God, and therefore what we say IS the will of God and can therefore not be immoral”.

    In some countries the whole process isn’t voluntary to begin with, so you cannot really fault the people in those countries for the governments which they have.

    In our country, the ENTIRE process is supposedly voluntary, so we only have ourselves to blame for signing up for indentured servitude.

    There BF, how’s THAT for an argument against voting and against government in general? Did I at least hit the high points?

    • Black Flag says:


    • Peter,

      Respectfully I dis-agree with part of this. “your vote SHOULD really be a piece of paper which says, “I voluntarily cede my personal authority to Politician X, who knows better than I do how I should run my life.” I will freely admit this is a good way to describe the sheeple. Myself, I consider when someone is elected, that means they WORK for me. And I damn sure think most of them need to be fired.

      • Black Flag says:

        They do not work for you because you did not elect them.

        The slate was given to you – you did not chose the slate.

        If I give you a choice between peas or carrots for supper, do you claim you got to chose your supper’s meal?

        • “They do not work for you because you did not elect them.”
          I pay their salary, they damn well do work for me, they seem to have forgotten that, but will soon remember.

          I think the rest of us will be more effective in getting elected people who will restore a sense of value in our country, than you will by refusing to recognize them by voting. But I salute you for being steadfast in your beliefs.

          peas or carrots for supper, did you know there are more cows than people in Nebraska? I just solved the whole AGW problem, I will endever to double my beef intake, and reduce those methane emissions, meaning I’m having a steak tonight.

          • Black Flag says:

            You don’t pay their salary.

            They pay themselves out of the loot they stole. You cannot take away any money from them.

            Your vote is futile. It is merely your acceptance of the system.

            …and sorry, beef wasn’t on the menu, you can’t chose that. You must pick from the choice I give you.

            Do you have any feeling of control regarding your supper?

            • What if I want more than just peas or carrots? Do I not get to choose what goes with that, or is that it? Just plain ol peas or carrots.

              • Barbarian says:

                I raise my own beef, carrots, potatoes, beer, alcohol, diesel and load my own ammunition. They can try to tell me how to choose.

              • However fancy you dress up the two options, it’s still only two options.

                Anwyay, I think a better analogy might be having to choose between McDonald’s or Burger King when you’re a vegetarian. 😉

              • Actually, Carl’s Jr. is better for hamburgers, I’m not a vegetarian, but I do love my salads. I’m a big salad nut.

              • Black Flag says:

                Now you’re getting the understanding about voting.

                You only get peas and carrots – and in 4 years, you get carrots and peas.

                Nothing else.

              • Okay, call me dunce here, but would you please exactly what you mean. I guess I’m not quite grasping it.

              • Black Flag says:

                The slate of candidates is not your choice, but given to you.

              • Barbarian says:

                In other words, the meal has been catered.

                If you desire something different, cook it yourself!

              • Black Flag says:

                Barbarian, you are closer to the truth then you think.

              • Barbarian says:

                BF, I am close by design, not by chance. Been working toward this for 5 years. Frequent travel overseas has made it slow but not impossible.

                I will not go quietly into the night!

              • Black Flag says:

                Look forward to your input on the forum, Barbarian!

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                You go to the paint store, and the only colors they have available are blue and red… that is all.

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                See #65

            • v. Holland says:

              I agree that government may take away our right to choose but I do not think that the vote is useless-look at health care- the liberals want the government to just pay for everything to get rid of private insurance but the conservatives want health insurance to be fixed but not controlled by the government-if they aren’t taking into consideration the peoples voices in their crazy idea of a compromise what are they doing? This is a serious question but it does seem like when the people really show an adverse reaction to a policy and the politicians believe that it will effect their re-election that it does have an effect.

              • OH, I do believe it would effect their election. Does this administration think they will be re-elected if they choose to run again? I sure hope not. Look at the way they doing things to us without any regards to how we feel or how we think it is going to affect us.

                They just keep coming up with these outrageous bills, signing them without reading them, cramming everything down our throats, and expecting us to say whoopie, the government is really looking out for us.

                I wouldn’t vote for this group of

                screwups if they were the last people on earth. I didn’t vote for them last year, why would I vote for them now? Hell no

                Personally, I would like to see Romney or Huckabee run again, but then I also like Newt too.

              • We will know whether or not our protesting has worked in November of 2010.

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                The real solution to the problem is to get government OUT OF HEALTHCARE ENTIRELY and let the free market determine the actual costs.

                I don’t see EITHER side representing THAT idea, so in what way is either side representing ME?

                Sure, you may think one side has a slightly better BAD idea than the other side, but a slightly better BAD idea is still a BAD idea.

          • BF

            Yes, I claim I got to choose, because you gave me that choice between the two.

            Good for you LOI, isn’t that what they’re there for. Enjoy.


          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            You do NOT pay their salary. You have their salary taken from you by threat of force.

            Just try NOT paying their salary and see what happens to you!

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        In what way do they work for you? You do not pay their salary, you have their salary forcibly deducted from your paycheck and forcibly added to your purchases and forcibly added as fees to many of your activities. You do not CHOOSE to pay their salaries.

        In what way are they answerable to you? If they are doing things you do not like, how easy is it to recall them and replace with a person that is ACTUALLY OF YOUR CHOOSING?

  55. Our great legislators should have put in some form of amendment to CARS that would allow turned-in vehicles to be used by folks who can’t afford a car for like 2 or 3 years.

    That makes to much sense, so that’s probably why they don’t If it’s logical, then make it complicated.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      The well-hidden, yet fully official motto of government is, “If it makes sense, it’s not for us (and certainly didn’t come FROM us either).”


    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      A committee is a beast with many mouths and no brain.

      A government is a herd of committees.

  56. Here is another story I got off Fox.

    Once upon a time our president wasn’t always down on dissent. After all, he was a community organizer way before he ever became a politician.
    “Go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” Senator Obama told his supporters on the campaign trail in fall of 2008.

    So I suppose he was for bickering before he was against it?

    The left has always loved community organizing—when it’s their interest. Heck, they are being lead by an expert in the field. But when regular folks gather to express unhappiness in the form of a dissenting opinion to their progressive agenda, they despise it, delegitimize it and seek to stop it all costs. Grassroots are bad when the roots aren’t firmly planted in the liberal ground.
    Apparently bills in Congress aren’t the only thing Democrats haven’t read in a while — how about the Constitution? Remember that? Isn’t this enshrined in the Constitution — freedom of Assembly? Isn’t this one of the foundations of our democracy, organizing, getting like-minded people with the same views to come together, whether they’re in Birkenstocks or Brooks Brothers? Last time I looked there was nothing “manufactured” about organizing for or against a cause.

    The White House has called the uproar at recent town halls on health care “manufactured outrage.” Senator Harry Reid calls the concerned citizens speaking their minds “loud, shrill voices.” Nancy Pelosi called protesters Nazis, who are “carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.” There is no evidence on this whatsoever.

    And Senator Barbara Senator Boxer Senator (not to be outdone on insanity by Speaker Pelosi) has objected to the dress code of protesters. (Did I mention she was a Senator??) She claims they’re “too well dressed” to be legit. You just can’t have a real protest without some tie dye, marijuana and a flaming brassiere, huh.
    Ma’am, this is what people with jobs look like. I guess one needs to strip to his or her tighty whities to be taken seriously.

    But the polling discredits their charges. According to a recent Quinnipiac poll, on Obama’s effort to overhaul of the health-care system, 52 percent disapprove of his handling of the issue while 39 percent approve. Disapproval jumped 10 points in the last month alone, and 60 percent of Independents – a key voting block – disapprove of the plan. Bottom line: the outrage is real.

    Despite the legitimacy of the public’s concern, demonizing democracy has become pretty common these days for the left. They wrote off the tea parties as fabricated and claimed they were funded by FOX News . Most of the mainstream media took their cue from them and refused to report on the gatherings. Congressional Democrats sought to reimpose the “fairness doctrine” on broadcasters in order to shut down the one conservative-leaning communications medium, talk radio. And the administration has already tried to label anyone who speaks up as a “radical right wing extremist.”

    By dismissing the anger of conservatives, moderates, libertarians, conservative democrats and independents the administration looks out of touch and appallingly arrogant. In fact, it will hurt them even more because Obama promised to listen to the concerns of the citizens, not operate with a tin ear.

    Once upon a time, liberals prided themselves, with considerable reason, as the staunchest defenders of free speech. Now they are its fiercest opponents. In case they have forgotten, the root of the word “democrat” means power to the people. That means ALL people. Even when they aren’t wearing tie dye.

    • Congresses own website only shows 12% support this plan!!!

      • I’m inclined to think they will say anything to get you believe otherwise.

        • v. Holland says:

          They are trying very hard to control the news media and the internet-that in IMO is why they want people to send them info about what people are saying thru personal conversation and email-so they can try to counteract any negative info. They can’t control the internet, yet, so they want to know what is being said so they have a chance to change the message or belittle the message.

  57. BF posted the following the other day:

    “For the rest of us,

    If you want to understand what is really happening in the economy, the people you need to talk to are the one’s like Kristian Stout.

    1) A highly industrialized nation is prosperous because of a highly divisible specialization of labor.

    2) This high division of labor creates the conditions that labor upon goods is spread broadly throughout the economy

    3) Shipping goods between labor pools is a direct and measurable correlation of increasing or decreasing economic activity.

    Watch the shippers – truck, train, ship, plane – to know if the economy is improving or failing.

    The Baltic Dry Goods indes is still falling…”

    Just got home from the big trip to the UP and LP and back again.

    Every rail siding I passed along the way, and there were many, was full of empty rail cars.

    Just sitting there. I first noticed this in Montana about 4 months ago but even there it has increased.

    All types of cars are parked, empty, standing still.

    Will share more from the trip later but this one jumped out so thought I would post it right away.

    Best Regards to All

    • Hey JAC

      Welcome back. How was your vacation?


      • Thanks Judy

        It was cold and wet.

        Darn Global Warming.

        By the way my trip was not actually a vacation. Just a trip of 4,245 miles to see things I had never seen before.

        By the way, I am always on vacation.

        • Hey, JAC, to me that’s still a vacation. You got away from your everyday life, and did something that you wanted to do.

          BTW, believe it or not, the last few days here have been pretty hot, but today was a totally different story. Cloudy, windy, a few showers, with snow up in the mountains above the 9000 foot level, and the temp has been only in the 60’s all day.

          You by any chance drive through Reno, and bring that weather with you? Funny, now that you’re back, the weather changed here.

    • v. Holland says:

      In the business we run-there are times when we need to use truck lines to send generators to stores to get the power back up-I have been horrified at the increase in the cost-so I’m not at all surprised at the decrease in people using trucking companies-it has become cheaper in some situations just to hire electricians to move and install the generators and the companies who own the generators have agreed to pay the insurance to insure the move, which was unheard of before.

  58. Has anyone seen the Washigton Post article complaining the The Obama Joker poster is really a racist attack? He gets to it half throught the article. And here I was thinking the poster artist used Heath Ledger’s Joker because it was a creepier and more recent version than Jack Nicholson’s depiction.


    The guy’s a putz…..racial….sheesh. Is that all they know how to say?

    • Hi Cyndi

      It doesn’t matter what it is, or who is saying what about who, or why or how, the race card always, always comes out. I think the person who put that poster us was just stating what he believed in, and that I think that is Obama is a joker.


      • I agree with you there. Just like the Left thought President Bush was the Joker. They had a poster of him, too! As for the race thing, I know a certain amount of that goes on, but I don’t think this is a sample of it. The fable of the boy who cried “Wolf” comes to mind whenever unsubstantiated charges of racism come up.

        • No, I don’t either, I think that guy was just merely making a statement, about what a joke Obama has become. I don’t think he meant to be racial about at all. No different about when they showed Bush pictures showing him to be a monkey, and I don’t think there was anything racial about that either.

  59. BF, down here

    Okay, but you still have a choice from that slate on who you choose to vote for, whether you vote or not. That’s the way I see it.


    • Black Flag says:

      I will write about the futility of voting on Friday.

      • Let me guess, it’s going to be a long writing, isn’t it?

        • I hope it is, PeterB’s explaination was excellent and made sense to me. By the way Hi Judy!!


        • Black Flag says:

          I will try to make is easy and short.

          • Black Flag says:

            I took a suggestion from a great writer….

            Write as if you were trying to explain something to your mother.

            • OH BF, I was just giving you a hard time, don’t you know that by now.


            • v. Holland says:

              Does that mean dumb it down or write it with love?

              • I was kidding him when he said he was going to write the futile about voting tomorrow. And I asked him if it was going to be really long, he said he would try and keep it short and simple.

                That’s when I said what I did. He said he would write as though he was trying to explain something to his mother.


              • I meant futility, not futile, sorry.

            • OK, my youngest son is going through that “my parents are so dumb stage” so from his view, you will really need to dumb it down…..

              My adult children are going through that “you’ve become a lot smarter stage” so from their view, you can use some big words if you need to……

  60. Hi Ya’ll!! As I read and learn, I really come away with the feeling that “I stand for one thing as an American, and I proved that”.

    While I still have much to learn (that can never end), pure freedom is what I choose. I have learned, that I’m nowhere close to that.

    I understand that without legitimacy, the government will have no power. I understand that voting for the worst of two evils is senseless.

    I also have that core value, to fight for what you believe in, the question is always, what avenue do I use to fight. Do I speak up and legitimize, which is peacefull, or do I go the not so peacefull way. Alone, neither will work. United has it’s limitations, depending on numbers, and common goal, if that can even be achieved.

    As a freedom loving American, I can say, voting does not work, protesting never works, just makes for news and the other sides rhetoric.

    Feels like the steering wheel fell off on a very curvy road.

    While I’m not suggesting any action against anyone, here are some interesting things that require some thought on how to best utilize.

    There are 23 million vets in the USA. There are 80 million gun owners, that own 270+ million guns. Our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids have the keys to the jets, tanks and firepower that keep our government in control of us (amongst others).

    With that in mind, if the healthcare crap passes, and our elders become screwed, who has the advantage and power to turn it around, us or them?

    Food for thought only, not a desire to engage in armed revolt. That’s my disclaimer so I don’t get torn up to bad, LOL.


    • Speaking of VETS I was shopping at Target earlier, and I saw this gal with her husband, and their little boy. Guess who was wearing the Army uniform? She was. I stopped her to thank her for her service, and patted her on the back. Her little boy however thanked me for giving him a ball, even though I didn’t, but I said you’re welcome to him anyway. He had the biggest grin on his face after that, that when I walked a way, I sort of had teary eyes and but felt good within myself.


      • BTW G I left you an email, have you read it yet?


      • Judy, I worked with many women in all the services, in every job class. I never worked with one that wasn’t just a tough as any man that worked beside them. Remember, it’s not the size of the person in the fight, but the size of the fight in the person!


        • No, that’s not what I meant G. It’s just that I’m so used to seeing men in uniforms when I’m out and about, and when I saw her, it was just a different scene. She in uniform and him not. But then he could have been in the Army too, but just not wearing his uniform, I don’t know.


    • Black Flag says:

      This is why, G-man, that the implementation of Fascism is slow. The guys who pulls the trigger happens to be the son of the man he is supposed to shoot.

      But, if you note – the plan is to mix up the locations of operations. This is why the FED wants to run the Guard – they will send Texans to take care of the New Yorker’s and the New Yorker’s to take care of the Texans.

      Now, if the Texan’s are even a small bit heavy handed, the New Yorker’s will go bonkers on top of the Texans – and neither side will have any lack of motivation to open fire on ‘strangers with a weird accent’.

      The Guard under direct command of the State was specifically designed to avoid this problem – that no tyranny in command could force a family to fire upon their own family or neighbors and of course, this has been slowly and purposely eroded over the last 200 years.

  61. Black Flag says:

    Catch up with comments tomorrow.

  62. I think I too will get going for the night. Catch up with all tomorrow.

    Good night all and
    Sweet dreams


    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Good evening Cyndi – consider for a moment that we have an administration that needs to provides some answers. We clamor for and demand the truth. Is it helpful or damaging to enable, encourage and above all, to not respond to inaccuracies? I hear the ‘noise’ from both sides, or the fishiness from both sides and I still do not know what the truth is – I would hope they get the full scale of stories out there so they can properly respond/rebut.

      And btw – you should not give two shits about your IP address appearing in logs – most people are going to be covered by CPNI restrictions that place controls on what data such as IP can be shared. The IP in your email is less likely to be your own personal IP than a gateway, edge router or mail server.

      • Ray,

        Our present Administration has an extremely compliant media at its disposal. It doesn’t need personal emails of alleged misinformation to diseminate accurate information. Just imagine the outcry if President Bush had done this. I recall the outrage over certain provisions of the Patriot Act. The warrantless wiretaps of foreign terrorists comes to mind. If the present Administration chose to abuse its power, the names and email address would a very good starting point for the government. The core of the problem is trust. Many Americans have lost their trust in their government. The Left didn’t trust President Bush anymore than the Right trusts Obama. There’s a reason for that. Personally, I’m not too fussed about my IP address as my access, even at home, is via a government system. If they want me, they already know where I am.

  63. I thought Gitmo is closing? Why is the Army National Guard recruiting Internment/Resettlement Specialists? What internment camps do we have other than Gitmo? Who is going to be resettled? Is this another one of those very convenient coincidences? Must be….


  64. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    A man wanted to paint his living room a nice sunny yellow color. He had just put in a new bay window and wanted to paint the room to really help brighten up the place, so the man went to a paint store. When he got to the paint store he asked to see color cards of all the nice bright shades of yellow they had so he could determine which one would look best in his living room.

    The sales person at the paint shop told the man that they only had red and blue paint available. The man said, “well, that isn’t much of a selection, and I certainly don’t want red or blue, I want a nice sunny yellow to accent all of the light coming in through my new bay window, so I guess I will go to another paint shop.”

    The salesperson informed the man that all of the paint shops, hardware stores, and home supply stores only had red and blue paints available. The man was very disappointed, neither red nor blue would highlight all of the sun coming in through his new bay window very well at all. Red would be too stark, and blue would be too muted.

    He decided he really did want to paint the room anyway, so he asked to see color cards with the different shades of red and blue that were available. Maybe he could find something that would at least look decent. The clerk gave him a color card that had one color swatch on it that was a purple color that looked like it was not really uniform in shade.

    The man said, “I thought you said you had red and blue available! What is the deal with this color card that has this variably shaded purple color on it?” The clerk replied, “well, we are required to use this machine to dispense the paint that virtually ensures that every time the end product ends up being between 40-60% red and 40-60% blue. It doesn’t come out exactly the same every time, but it almost never has less than 40% of either color and it almost never has more than 60% of either color, so it always comes out somewhere within the spectrum of purple shown on that color card, and even within the can of paint, the shade isn’t quite uniform, so some parts of your wall end up a bit more of a reddish-purple hue, and other parts of your wall end up a more bluish-purple hue.”

    The man was irate that this was the only option available to him. He asked, “Do all stores that carry red and blue paint do things this way?” The clerk answered, “Yes, we are required to by law.” The man was truly pissed at this point, so he said, “Nevermind, I don’t want any paint!” The clerk replied, “Well, since you have wasted so much of my time, the cost of 5 gallons of paint has already been automatically deducted from your paycheck to cover my time.”

    By this time, the man was truly red in the face (or maybe he was blue in the face? It was hard to tell.. his face was kinda turning a shade of purple by now!) The man screamed, “But I only needed 1 gallon of paint to paint my living room, and I didn’t even buy any paint! Why am I being charged for 5 gallons???” The clerk replied, “I am sorry sir, but you are required to by law. The minute you stepped into the paint store, you either had to purchase the paint, or have the cost of 5 gallons automatically deducted from your paycheck in the case of a non-purchase.”

    The man yelled, “What a stupid law! Who would vote for such a thing?” The clerk replied, “All of the owners of all the different stores that sell paint!”

  65. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Hello everyone!

    Here’s a funny to brighten your day!

    Wooden Leg Insurance

    A man and his wife, moved back home to West Virginia , from Ohio . The husband had a wooden leg, and to insure it back in Ohio cost them $2000 per year!

    When they arrived in West Virginia , they went to an insurance agency to see how much it would cost to insure his wooden leg.

    The agent looked it up on the computer and said: ‘$39.’

    The husband was shocked and asked why it was so cheap here in West Virginia to insure it because it cost him $2000 in Ohio .

    The insurance agent turned his computer screen to the couple and said, ‘Well, here it is on the screen, it says: Any wooden structure, with a sprinkler system above it, is $39…. You just have to know how to describe it!’

    (Those HILLBILLIES know how “to git ‘er done”; don’t they?)

    Best Regards,

  66. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Follow up to #65:

    The man who had had the paint store debacle decided to tell all of his friends about the whole experience. His friend BF said, “Hey, you know what, I know how to extract dyes from various plants, I am sure I could come up with a pigment that was a nice sunny shade of yellow.”

    His other friend JAC chimed in, “Hey, I know how to mix the right additives with plant dyes to make them into a pretty durable and long-lasting paint!”

    The man thought that this was great, so he asked his friends, “Well, if I have you guys whip up a gallon of sunny yellow paint for my living room, what will I owe you?” BF and JAC informed the man that they both had a room or two in their houses that they would like to have painted a nice sunny shade of yellow, but they both hated painting. For some reason when they did it it was kinda streaky and blotchy… they just weren’t very good at painting. They said they would make a few gallons of paint in exchange for the man painting the rooms in their houses which could use a nice coat of sunny yellow paint.

    The man agreed that this was a good idea, so BF and JAC got the yellow die and the proper additives and whipped up 3 gallons of paint. The man then painted the rooms in BF’s house, JAC’s house, and his own house a nice sunny shade of yellow.

    Ending #1:

    BF, JAC, and the man all lived happily ever after and never went to the idiotic paint store again.

    Ending #2

    BF, JAC, and the man were all arrested. They asked what the charge was, and they were informed by THE MAN (not to be confused with the man), that they were being charged with violating the painters act that stated that they must only use a variably shaded color of purple to paint any rooms in their homes, and they must use a union contracted painter to do all of the painting.

    • Black Flag says:

      I kinda like Ending #1 a lot better

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        For those of you who have not had enough coffee or Dr. Pepper or what have you to figure out the parable of #65 and #67 this morning:

        The paint stores, hardware stores, and home supply stores represent government. The process of the man attempting to choose the paint color, only to find that he really has no choices is the process of voting. The man being charged for 5 gallons of paint and having the charge directly taken from his paycheck is taxation.

        Ending #1 represents free men cooperating freely, option #2 represents where a lot of people think that our supposedly free country is headed (or may already be!)

        This concludes your sermon on freedom for the day 🙂

        • And the sunlight, that the man so wanted to emphasize in his house, represents the warmth, happiness and potential productivity of Freedom.

          Excellent story my dear friend from Indy.
          Sorry, but didn’t get down your way before heading home.
          Will explain why in a later and current posting about the whole trip.

          Best Wishes

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            Indeed JAC,

            Freedom is a warm and sunny place that you can take with you wherever you go regardless of the weather.

            Glad to see you back safely from the trip!

  67. Black Flag says:

    Ray Hawkins

    – curious why you see Fascism, Socialism and Communism as forms of statism.

    Because they all require the violent force of government to enact and maintain themselves. It is only Capitalism and Free Enterprise that requires NO government interference for its existence.

    Capitalism with government interference is either Mercantilism or Fascism – but never Free Enterprise.

    These terms are often used in the modern right wing media as FUD to scare the bejesus out of anyone that may place a hairy eyeball on any one issue with the current Government, Congress and POTUS (Mark Levin spends SIGNIFICANT time in his work trying to convince everyone we are moving towards all the above or one of the above).

    And the people should be scared to death of it.

    All government action in an economy will eventually destroy that economy, and likely the nation of that economy.

    So – here is something else to think of – traditional communistic thinking (little c, not big C) usually occurs when a group of people abandon the societies they live in and flee to a communal farm – if think of ‘communal farm’ in the logical rather than literal sense does that sound like something familar?

    I do not completely agree with Baradar assessment of communism.

    I do see your point on little ‘c’ and big ‘C’, though. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Big ‘C’ requires government force, little ‘c’ is life style.

    We all engage in communism in our homes – from those that can to those that need. That is how we take care of our children and family, and where I disagree with Baradar, it is not necessarily a requirement for it to be agrarian and rural. I do agree that it is very successful where the size of the community is very small and entangled by some motivation of emotion and tightly shared and aligned goals. I do not see little ‘c’ requires an abandonment of society at all – family in fact is a cornerstone of society.

    All problems of communism derive from trying communism outside of its very limited application area. It requires an emotional attachment, which cannot exist in a large group, and an alignment of intimate goals, which cannot occur in a large group – EXCEPT by the application of force.

    PS: For those that asked FUD = Fear Uncertainty and Doubt – it is a common tool of misdirection; when a solution that is untested has been offered, those that are threatened by the success of the solution will begin to attack the solution before implementation with assaults of Fear (Oh My, it will Kill us All!) – Uncertainty (Have you Thought of Every Possible other Solution in the Universe before you attempt this one?) and Doubt (If it Doesn’t work, You will be Hung, Drawn and Quartered and by the way, good luck!) – it was a famous tactic of IBM, pre-announcing a non-existent product of a competitor, causing customers to say “Oh, well, if IBM has one coming out soon, we’ll wait for their version”. Rarely did IBM actually produce the product, but it was successful in reducing customer erosion.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      There are some cases (especially when dealing with government) that is is very wise to be fearful, uncertain, and full of doubt.

    • Interesting that Chomsky classified the agrarian communes of Spain as “Anarchistic” not “communistic” as has been done by others, and indirectly by Ray in his reference to them.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      BF – you can interpret Socialism as such – it is by its nature ill-defined which is what led Lenin down his path.

  68. BF, a friend has asked for ideas on how to prepare for uncertain times ahead and I’ve spent too much time looking for your guest post – do you remember when that was?

    • Didn’t look long enough….

      March 25, 2009 posting….

    • Black Flag says:

      With all planning = start with a plan!

      Because no one can afford to have a 100% plan, how do you start?

      Individual – Localized – Small Region – Large Region – National – Global

      Now think of one disaster for each of these and ask yourself how likely you are to actually experience this event in the next year or next ten years.

      You can think of any disaster and then just assign it to one of the six categories and you will quickly see that in most instances the larger the effected area, the lower the probability that it will actually happen. Here are some examples…

      * Individual – Job Loss
      * Localized – Damage From Strong Storms
      * Small Region – City Riots Spreading To The Suburbs
      * Large Region – Large Scale Hurricane Damage To A Coastal Region
      * National – A Well-Organized Terrorist Attack on 25 Major U.S. Cities
      * Global – A Rapid Climate Shift Brings On An Ice Age

      So, start with the top of the list – and work down from there.

  69. Makes sense.

  70. Black Flag says:

    Long debate ended over cause, demise of ice ages – may also help predict future

    CORVALLIS, Ore. – A team of researchers says it has largely put to rest a long debate on the underlying mechanism that has caused periodic ice ages on Earth for the past 2.5 million years – they are ultimately linked to slight shifts in solar radiation caused by predictable changes in Earth’s rotation and axis.

    In a publication to be released Friday in the journal Science, researchers from Oregon State University and other institutions conclude that the known wobbles in Earth’s rotation caused global ice levels to reach their peak about 26,000 years ago, stabilize for 7,000 years and then begin melting 19,000 years ago, eventually bringing to an end the last ice age.

    The melting was first caused by more solar radiation, not changes in carbon dioxide levels or ocean temperatures, as some scientists have suggested in recent years.

    “Solar radiation was the trigger that started the ice melting, that’s now pretty certain,” said Peter Clark, a professor of geosciences at OSU. “There were also changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and ocean circulation, but those happened later and amplified a process that had already begun.”

    • Barbarian says:

      BF, you forgot to include his “pitch” for further grant money, “But these are processes that literally move with glacial slowness, and due to greenhouse gas emissions the Earth has already warmed as much in about the past 200 years as it ordinarily might in several thousand years,” Clark said.

  71. It is tough to just read and keep my mouth (and fingers) quiet for awhile. I am still digesting all who write on here.

    Everyone have a great day.

  72. Black Flag says:


    BF – the anarchist does or does not support private ownership of land?

    Private ownership, yes.
    Public ownership is an oxymoron.

  73. Black Flag says:

    Ray Hawkins

    Black Flag – AML laws do not require that the government have access to your bank account. Its not the same thing.

    What does the law have to do with anything? The government does follow its own laws right now!

    They have access because they have the capability – illegally or not.

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