Arianna and Her Den of Hateful Idealogues

Huffington Post, logo1I was looking around this evening figuring out what I would write about. I have had so little time with my son here that I end up not starting until late in the evening. As I begin here I look at the clock and it is 1:43 am. But I was reading at a bunch of sites and I stumbled upon this article on The Huffington Post. I have to say, reading the Huffington Post often disturbs me. To read some of what the liberal folks post there and the things they say is downright infuriating. So I am going to take a moment here to single out one jackass who writes for the Huffington Post. Because it is important to realize the hate and vitriol that is being spewed at some of the most read far left sites out there. It gives you insight into the far left (which, for the record, does not include Ray, lest he be offended thinking I am talking about him). But I am also going to point to some folks there who have written some good stuff too.

I will say up front that reading the Huffington Post is both infuriating and informative. There are some good articles there and you can go there and find some sane and rational arguments for the liberal points of view. I will add that you are wasting your time attempting to discuss things with the more radical folks that comment there. You will find many who are prime examples of why I have the respecting others policy I do on this site. But many of the people who write for HP present things in a somewhat logical way and help me to at least understand the liberal position, even if I don’t agree.

Cesca... The Idiot Child

Cesca... The Idiot Child

However there are some there, who are prominent writers for the site, who are absolute jackasses. They say things that, in my opinion, render them as gasbags with no valid point of view. Yet the comments that follow their articles always show that their hate filled rhetoric has tons of followers who hang on and believe everything they say. And that would be OK if what they were saying was not so hateful, ignorant, and downright wrong. The comments that follow his articles are as hateful as he is, and conservatives are treated far worse than anyone on the left could claim they are treated here. One of those writers is Bob Cesca. According to his bio,he is the author of “ONE NATION UNDER FEAR”, a collection of blog-style essays which examine the politics of fear during the “dark ride” of the Bush years. He’s been a featured blogger/columnist for the Huffington Post since August, 2005. His posts appear on the front page above-the-fold every Wednesday.

The headline for his August 12 column caught my attention: “Malkin and Fox News Are Stalking Children Again”. It caught my attention because I can’t imagine a liberal having something to say negative about stalking children, after watching the liberal treatment of Palin’s children. He was whining over the coverage of the obvious plant at the Obama New Hampshire town hall meeting, 11 year old Julia Hall. She asked the President about the “mean things” on the signs she saw on the way into the town hall meeting. I watched the town hall. I don’t know how many plants there were in the audience, and I don’t care to be honest. But denying that she was one is idiotic.

Julia HallShe is the daughter of the Head of the group “Women for Obama”. She has been to the White House, including the annual Easter Egg Hunt this year.  That is the extent of what Malkin and Fox News had to say about this little girl. They stated the facts about who she is and the unlikeliness that she was a “random” questioner with a “random” question. I chuckled when her mother gave a subsequent interview where she said she was surprised that morning when her daughter said she wanted to ask the President a question later at the town hall meeting. So she sat down and helped her write out her question before they left. So before they went to the town hall meeting, this 11 year old had to foresight to know she was going to see “mean things” on the signs as she entered? Seeing the future: Not just for adults anymore. And the rest of her question was obviously not written by an 11 year old.

So let’s not pretend that the girl wasn’t fed the question, either by her parents or supporters or the White House. Who knows where she got it, and who cares. Politics is all one big scripted show anyway. Did you really think anyone asking tough questions would be allowed in a town hall with the President? Liberals, do you really believe that this was the one town hall meeting in America that had no dissent?

Michelle Malkin

Michelle Malkin

Regardless, Fox News didn’t attack this girl, or for that matter say a single bad or derogatory thing about her. Not one. Yet this idiot Cesca would have you believe they have singled her out for execution. He makes it sound as though they claimed that her mother’s baby was really hers (sound familiar?). All they did was point out the connection and let people know the truth on what was going on in that town hall meeting. Some select quotes from Cesca regarding Republicans and right wing folks:

  • decency never stopped Malkin and Fox News Channel from targeting civilian children in order to satisfy their ignorant viewers.
  • And Beck risked stirring up the kneejerk vitriol of his itchy-trigger-fingered wingnut vigilante audience
  • the far-right, whether or not they’re honest enough to admit it, represents the reactionary wing of American political ideology. That’s a fact. They dig weaponry and they endorse violent solutions to conflicts (war, torture and the like). Contrastingly, no matter how loudly many liberals protested the Bush administration, I never heard of a liberal bringing a loaded weapon to a Bush rally. You know, because of the general message of pacifism and peace and such.
  • As the ring leaders migrate into the arena of targeting children within the context of the increasingly hot war over healthcare reform, Malkin, Fox News and other wingnuts who orbit the right-wing satellite of crazy has evolved from being a silly, almost campy assembly of sore losers to an ignorant, dangerous posse — a rabble of misinformed cranks who have no problem with pinning large red targets on the backs of children.
  • Put another way: they have identified an 11-year-old girl as a co-conspirator in this horribly misperceived socialist-fascist-Nazi-Marxist-communist-leftist-rightist-and-brown “insurgency.” They have broadcast her name and her home town to every hairless wingnut freakdog who’s holed up in his bunker with Glenn Beck on TV, Alex Jones on the radio and The Gimp locked inside a steamer trunk. They have defined this child as another enemy standing in the way of getting “their country back.”
Arianna Huffington

Arianna Huffington

So that will end my little tirade against Bob Cesca. He is an idiot. Arianna Huffington, if you are reading this, it is stuff like what he is writing that renders your little informative corner of the web moot. So long as you continue to promote hateful speech like his, outright distortions like his, and generalized insults to all conservatives like those listed above, your site will be considered a group of left wing loons, only slightly better than the Daily Kos. And that is a shame because there is a lot that conservatives could learn from hearing points of view from the left. But we won’t go often to places where we are that insulted.

All of that being said, that should not disqualify any of you from visiting the Huffington Post and reading articles there. There are lots of interesting articles and plenty of people writing there that bring interesting information to the table. The key is to remember that you should apply your healthy skepticism to everything that you read there, the same way you would if you read a Michelle Malkin column, watch Fox News, or MSNBC. Everyone has a spin of some sort. Some try to be more honest than others. I have my spin too, but I do try to be honest and attempt to see things both ways to at least understand the other side.

Some folks and articles that are interesting today at the Huffington Post:

Micheal Brenner has an interesting piece titled “The Health Care Reform Debacle: Obama’s Coming-Out”

Michael Brenner: The Health Care Reform Debacle: Obama’s Coming-Out

Drew Weston did a piece on the change in Obama supporter’s views titled “Change We Can Believe In: Feelings Toward the Administration by Those Who Elected It”

Drew Westen: Change We Can Believe In: Feelings Toward the Administration by Those Who Elected It

Kevin Grandia wrote a piece that shows how the left intends to shut down the upcoming opposition to the Cap and Trade debate in a similar way to the health care “Astro” claims in “Oil Lobby’s ‘Energy Citizens’ Astroturf Campaign Exposed”

Kevin Grandia: Oil Lobby’s ‘Energy Citizens’ Astroturf Campaign Exposed

Stephen Harrington offers some thoughts on the economic impact of health care reform in his article, “Economic Consequences of Health Care Reform”

Stephen Herrington: Economic Consequences of Health Care Reform

I think that if you continue to use the Huffington Post as a source of information and do so with your thinking cap on, as I think Ray does and some others here, it is a valuable tool. Technorati claims that the Huffington Post is the most visited blog on the web. I don’t know how accurate that is, but is impressive if even close. As I have often stated in the past, the first steps in creating dialogue that will mean something between the left and the right is to begin to understand the opposition’s point of view.

And then, when you are ready to join the VDLG Party, fight for true liberty and a government based on a moral core, you will understand both of the sides you disagree with!

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Comments

  1. Ray Hawkins says:

    All ~ I do read HP daily (at least try to) – did not read the Cesca article but will today if my web filtering does not block it 🙂

    I say take it with a grain of salt – all of it – there is plenty of cheese on the site, plenty of informative articles, and more than its share of idiocy as you’ll find elsewhere. I like Malkin no more than I like any of the rest of them – her career is built on pissing on other people (plenty of those to the left and to the right) and playing to the ogre in all of us. Much the same could be said for the nightime lineup on MSNBC – anymore I can only watch Maddow because she seems to at least try and get it right – even with the smirk she often has. Keith and Ed and Chris can grate my nerves from time to time.

    And BTW – as much as I bleed Green as a Philadelphia Eagles fan – please know that the fan base here is LIVID that they signed Michael Vick. Sure the guy did his time – let him go bag groceries for a living – we don’t this s-bag propped up as a role model.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      I think that regardless of the sites you get your opinions and information from, there are some good ideas out there from all sides, as well as some horrible ideas, and some articles that don’t contain any ideas at all (the Cesca article is a good example of one that doesn’t contain any ideas at all and is just using hate to attempt to promote a policy position and debase the other side).

      When you read anything on any site, ask yourself, “Does this idea/policy support freedom and liberty?” If not, ask yourself, “If not, is there a way to rework the idea or policy so that it will support freedom and liberty?”

      If you answer “No” to both of those questions, then it is simply a bad idea or policy.

    • Ray, I too am surprised that Vick has “recovered” so quickly. I think Dunges’ influence helped him greatly. Hopefully he proves he’s deserving.

    • esomhillgazette says:

      As a diehard Falcons fan, I wholeheartedly sympathize with you Ray regarding Vick. Praise Allah we don’t have him anymore. As you said, he doesn’t need to be set up as a role model for kids or anyone else.

      I also agree that you need to read or listen to anything with a grain of salt when it comes to ALL media, not just HF.

    • Ray,

      Looks like Maddow may have stepped in it.

      Craig Shirley and Diana Banister are demanding a retraction and apology from Maddow. They have sent a letter to Maddow that reads, in part:

      Shirley & Banister Public Affairs has had no affiliation with grassfire.org or any of its affiliates since 2004. We DO NOT represent them in any way.

      Your apparent source for this information is Public Citizen, a left-wing website, not a “watchdog” group. One phone call from a producer or researcher to our office would have set the record straight. However, your lack of research and your statements prove you are not interested in facts.

      If a retraction is not forthcoming today we will pursue legal action against you, MSNBC, NBC Universal and General Electric.

      http://newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-noyes/2009/08/14/msnbc-hosts-false-attack-leads-threats-against-conservative

    • Tain’t easy being a Seattle Seahawks fan, but at least THEY didn’t sign Vick!

  2. v. Holland says:

    I used to read at the HuffPost, because I wanted to try and understand the lefts side of things and in between the nasty comments you could have a conversation. Unfortunately, I found that after awhile the pure hatefullness of so many of the comments-started making me dislike people-So I quit.

  3. Along the lines of things that I find quite disturbing is the following, also on the Huff Post:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-rucker/geico-pulls-its-ads-from_b_256724.html

    I watched the video of Becks interview that was supposed to be so egregious as to warrant a boycott.

    He stated that he thought Obama had some deep seated hatred for whites or something, he wasn’t sure. When challenged he said he thought Obama was a rascist.

    If you have ever heard Beck discuss this issue you know he has made a good supporting argument. This was not shown on the video attached to Mr. Rucker’s site. Only the comment that He is a racist.

    What I find bothersome is that, if Mr. Rucker is correct, how quickly these companies supposedly folded under pressure from Rucker’s group with only 75000 signatories on a petition. This is a classic Jesse Jackson strategy and I wonder if Mr. Rucker is connected to either Jackson or any of the Obama team organizing groups.

    I also find it odd that so many on the Left seem to have such a gut level hatred for Beck when he has been one of the only voices calling for discussion among All Americans, trying to come together, and preaching calmn. Perhaps it is because he was also the first to make the connections between the modern Progressive movement and the original Progressives and fascism. Or perhaps just becasue he had the audacity to tell everyone who Mr. Obama really was.

    In any case, Mr. Beck has obviously earned a special target on his back from the Left. I hope some of our titens of industry grow a spine and start telling right and left to find some other way to fight among themselves.

    The Best to You All This Morning
    JAC

    • I thought that was the best way to get something off the air, write to the advertisers and register your complaint. Much like what happened to Lettermen after the Sarah Palin incident.

      http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/letterman-apologizes-again-to-governor-palin-and-her-family/

      • esomhillgazette says:

        Yeah, that’s him alright. The red (or in this case black I guess) commie hisself.

        Boy, those liberals are just scared to death someone might tell a little truth or three about them ain’t they?

        I’m sure Glenn Beck is quaking in his shoes in terror.

        • The most idiotic thing about this is should Beck himself start throwing his own weight around, I’m certain getting 750,000 signatures on a petition would be child’s play. The more he’s been right about POTUS, the more organized brownshirts arrive to silence the critics. As I have said before, I like a lot of the message (another crazy Cannuck) as I live it daily and am happy to help out my fellow Canadians but while our messengers were socialists who told us they were “socialists”, yours is a snake in a tree speaking of apples.

          Your constitution was a temple but POTUS is busy converting it into an amusement park. Have fun with that.

    • good morning JAC, off topic, I thought I saw you comment somewhere on the sidelined railcars you saw on your trip. I wanted to post your observations on another blog, but can’t find that reference now. Was I hallucinating when I saw that? c

    • I watched all of Beck’s interview. ALL of it. I am not a particular Beck fan….I think it is mainly his antics but I have seen that he does call for calm and he calls it against the right as well as left. But, one thing he does seem to do, is have the facts in his statements and when checked out, they seem to be on target.

      One other thing that I feel is also true…. it seems that the more programs are questioned and the more lies and half truths that are exposed, the louder the rhetoric. Now, I know that this is not a revelation of any kind but I do seem to see and hear it more so now and it is vicious. Why?

      Ray, I think I would like your opinion on this as you hail from that side of the tracks in a manner….Is it just response to the bills? Or is it because the left does not like the questioning? It seems that there is some fire and it is not just the conservative right blowing smoke. I have read this health bill twice and the crap that is spewing out right now is in the frigging bill so I just don’t know. Some enlightenment from your perspective, please sir. And, those of others that would associate beliefs as Ray’s. Thanks.

      D13

      • I find Beck very amusing and yet well informed for a showman. He’s been far more right than wrong and held in comparison to his peers on MSNBC and CNN is far more timely. That he’s slammed by Obama himself only goes to show POTUS’ ire at his accuracy. Has any seen what’s been peeled away from the Health bill? Sarah Palin is supposed to be a nutter with the “death panel” but that section is taken out only a few days ago? Why would you remove something that isn’t there and for that matter how could you remove that which doesn’t exist?

        Side question: Had it been reported at all by CNN about Kenneth Gladney? I gave up on that after suffering through 5 mornings of 6AM till 10AM viewing from the day it happened.

    • GEICO = Government Employees Insurance Company

    • Figures I finally find an insurance company that I like and they go and get weenie on me by bowing to BS pressure. Now I’m gonna have to shop my car insurance again. This SUCKS!!!

      • Check out AARP, seems like all they do is sell insurance these days.

        • I thought you had to be over X age to qualify for AARP anything and (even thought I’m climbing towards X age rapidly) I’m not quite there yet. Plus I got a decent discount for being military from Geico.

          • KYM, give USAA a shout. Had them most of my Navy career with zero problems.

            • Yessir….been with USAA since 1980…great insurance, cheaper, on the spot coverage, and they have supplemental health insurance for medicaid, medicare, AND private health insurance. every insurance that you need. When it first started it was for officers only but has now exapnded to include all military.

  4. Black Flag says:

    Off topic:

    This is important graph – it shows that “peak oil” is not a reality – oil prices have been actually lower then in history. As usual, inflation distorts our natural ability to compare prices over a time scale, and this graph corrects that. Given that over that time scale, world demand has dramatically increased, it is quite interesting to see how cheap fuel actually has been (and is).

    It also shows that the fundamental reason for the price jump upwards still remains – wars in the Middle East – without the resolution to that massive distortion, even during economic turmoil the risk to oil supplies will still be added to the price – especially now with Israel gearing up for an attack on Iran.

    • Also off topic, your missing ship (how did you mis-place that?)

      MOSCOW – A Russian-manned cargo ship that vanished last month in the Atlantic was found Friday near Cape Verde off the coast of West Africa, according to French and Russian officials. There was no immediate information about the condition of the crew or whether there was anyone else onboard.

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_eu/missing_ship

      No real info, except its been found.

      • Flash News;

        Dumb ship got lost again – FNC.com

        • Hey, whats with this dumb ship?

          Now its being held for ransom?

          Is it lost, kidnapped or just plain confused?

          Kinda reminds me of a movie where the Russians kept losing submarines, or something like that.

  5. esomhillgazette says:

    I’ve noticed that anytime someone, anyone, disputes the left or any of Obama’s dreams and aspirations of our new Socialist Utopia plans, all of a sudden it starts getting ugly.

    Unless you agree with them with a big smile, you’re branded as a racist, a hater, an idiot, or worse.

    To me this means we must be hitting pretty close to the truth and it stings. Most Americans now are seeing through the wall of bulldookey the left is trying to throw up in front of all this mess and it’s scaring the left to death that we might rise up and put a stop to it.

    Even though UHC and Cap and Trade are clearly unpopular more and more each day, everything I see tells me that the Government is going to try to push it through anyway. And damn what the everyday American wants. It seems we don’t matter anymore. They just continue to try to marginalize us and call us “astroturf” and troublemakers.

    As far as troublemaking goes, I’m afraid they’re going to keep on with this until they get their wish. I hope with all my heart I’m wrong on that point. But I’m afraid that I’m right.

    • So true Esom…so true

    • Espm,

      You are correct, except its not just the left, its both sides and the media. We talk about smoke and mirrors, and both side who post here know their has not been honest discussion on these issues.

      I just heard a news report, the pharmaceutical companies are spending more on the add campaign, than McCain did during his entire run. They are running adds in SUPPORT of the health bill. What does that money trail tell everybody?

      USW, a good article, surprising, almost out of left field.

      • esomhillgazette says:

        Oh, I’m talking about everyday Americans. Not Dem or Rep. You’re right that both sides do it. I’m merely refering to the left since it’s their ox presently getting the horn enema. I don’t like ANYONE in Government right now.

        The Dems are screaming rape because their programs are clearly not popular. The Republicans are jumping on the town hall bandwagon as they see which way the rope is swinging, and who is going to wind up losing? Yep. It’s going to be us. The ones who started the whole protest against these policies to begin with. The ordinary Americans.

        All the special interest groups on both sides could care less who wins. They just see the chance to hop out and play. And their going to screw the whole message up.

        The message, Mr. Obama, is that we ALL know some kind of Health care reform needs to happen. It just doesn’t have to be done in a hurry, it needs to be well thought out first. We don’t need Socialized Canadian or UK bulldookey. You might try looking at the Swiss. Or surely there is some way to reform it without taking over. Government is and will NEVER BE the answer.

        REFORM!! NOT TAKEOVER!!

        Don’t piss on my back and tell me it’s raining Mr. President. You’ve already told so many lies that you’re starting to get confused about what you have and haven’t told yet.

        • If the pharmaceutical companies are spending that amount of money, they must expect to make even more profit if this passes!

          • esomhillgazette says:

            I wonder what Obama has promised them to get them on board? I mean since Obama is on record as being against them extending their patent rights to twelve years, instead of seven, I smell bulldookey cooking.

            • He basically promised not to require lower/fixed prices on drugs. Ironically the far-left supporters who are actually aware of that fact are quite upset about it.

          • Sorry but the reason we see the pharma corps doing a jig for Obama is his having cast an eye towards the United States Patent Office and the grandfathering your “old boy” network helped propagate. Here in Canada prices are controlled by forcing the pharma corps to produce a “why so much” explanation for their pricing and in a lot of cases forcing them to produce the drug here in Canada. Cost of R&D plus that for recouping retrofit for different compounds with different cooking cycles is allowable but not of infinite duration unlike that they enjoy in America. I have contacts within BASF, Dupont/Merc, SKW Trostberg, Chemie Linz and more than a few others involved at various stages of the pharma corps processing cycle. I also have an in at the Bureau of Non-Prescription Drugs and Health Protection Canada. This was my game for nearly a decade before being shredded by legislation that failed to go our way and landed our competition 2 years of “in Canada” study ahead of us. Such is business.

        • I doesn’t have to be done in a hurry? You wouldn’t say that if your health insurance company was refusing to pay for treatment that could save your life, leaving you with the choice of death or medical bankruptcy. Two thirds of all bankruptcies are medical. A strong health care option, would reduce that number to near zero. Conservatives should be on board with a plan that strengthens the economy.

          • Murphy's Law says:

            Two thirds of all bankruptcies are medical? Can you back that up with references? I’m not saying you are wrong- but I’ve never heard that before. I’ve heard mostly about those who don’t budget, get in trouble with credit cards, car payments, house payments, etc, that they couldn’t really afford. Where did you get your facts?

            I’ve done a little research into bankruptcies and its causes, and found one study by Harvard that says about 50% are caused by medical bills……and other studies that challenge that particular study. Could be that one study is used to justify a massive power grab by gov’t? (Nawwww……THAT would never happen!)

            A strong health care option would reduce that number to near zero? Can you back that statement up?

            Do you think HR 3200 is a plan that would strengthen the economy? I am reading it……..and I am convinced it will do the opposite if it’s passed.

          • “A strong health care option, would reduce that number to near zero. ”

            It would also reduce our freedom and liberty to near zero dear Swift.

            I have lived through the situation you described and did not and will not use the govt to force my neighbors to pay for my care. They may if they choose but I will not force them.

            Oh you forgot to tell us what was actually in the policy regarding the specific treatment you say the company has denied. Were they outside the bounds of the agreement and thus subject to litigation or is this just another sob story because someone didn’t read their stinking policy.

            Libertarians are on board with strengthening our economy and it absolutely does not include this or any other health care plan operated by the federal govt. You don’t even realize the Republican/conservatives are actually ready to help destroy our economy with their own version of “reasonable reform”. You just have your head stuck so far up your political rhetoric you can’t see the forest for the trees.

            You can take your socialist/fascist reforms and stick them where the sun don’t shine pardner.

          • Swift, please allow me to point out something here that does not seem to resonate with the public nor is it being pointed out anywhere and that is the idea of personal responsibility. Please observe the statistics from a research done by Department of Medicine, Cambridge Hospital/Harvard Medical School, Cambridge, Mass; Department of Sociology, Ohio University,Athens; and Harvard Law School, Cambridge, Mass.

            BACKGROUND: Our 2001 study in 5 states found that medical problems contributed to at least 46.2% of
            all bankruptcies. Since then, health costs and the numbers of un- and underinsured have increased, and
            bankruptcy laws have tightened.
            METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court
            records, and interviewed 1032 of them. We designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated
            reasons for filing, income loss due to illness, and the magnitude of their medical debts.
            RESULTS: Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
            medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for
            medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical
            bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three
            quarters had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable
            to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors,
            the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.
            CONCLUSIONS: Illness and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of US bankruptcies.

            Now, this study went furhter into the actual bankruptcy filings under, penalty of perjury, and found that of all the filings related to medical, 92.8% of them were already maxed out or close to maxed out on their available lines of credit due to non medical costs. So when a medical emergency did arise, there was no room for coverage of out of pocket expenses. In other words, no one prepared themselves for medical emergencies or had contingency funds set aside. To extrapolate further, if the average household in the median income range of $34,946 had average household debt on credit cards in excess of $13,456 for extemporaneous items (living beyond their means and debt was not related to food and clothing), then where is the personal responsibility? Has a generation of entitlement mindset robots allowed themselves to be lulled into the “it will never happen to me” category and did not employ the 6 P principle? (Prior planning prevents piss poor performance).

            Why should we have a national health insurance plan shoved down our throats, burdening our children with health care costs that cannot be paid, soaking the rich, stifling the free market all because 92.3% of those that filed bankruptcy for medical reasons did so because there was no room in their credit for emergencies? WHERE IS THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? WHERE IS THE PLANNING THAT ANY RESPONSIBLE PERSON SHOULD HAVE TO PROTECT HIS FAMILY? WHY DOESN’T PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY INCLUDE TAKING OUT A DISABILITY INSURANCE POLICY THAT IS CHEAP TO PROTECT A PERSONS FAMILY IN CASE THE MAIN WAGE EARNER IS DISABLED? WHERE IS THE
            RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT INSTEAD OF A TRIP TO DISNEYLAND ONE YEAR OR THE IPOD OR WIFI OR BLACKBERRY OR GOING OUT EATING MEALS ALL THE TIME, ETC.ETC?

            WHERE IN THE HELL IS PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? IF WE ARE TO HAVE A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE POLICY, THEN MAKE IT CATASTROPHIC COVERAGE ONLY FOR THOSE WHO ACTUALLY NEED IT AND NOT FOR THOSE WHO SPEND THEMSELVES INTO OBLIVION AND THEN FILE BANKRUPTCY AND CLAIM MEDICAL COSTS. IT IS G******** UNBELIEVABLE THE ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY.

            • Crap…time for a Dr. Pepper now. Sorry, all…I let my emotion get the better of me. However, I will not apologize for wanting people to be responsible and quit crying poor me when the greatest majority could have staved their problems off.

              (Drinking DP and calming down now)

              D13 (resting and closing eyes)

            • Aside from these types of stories (again, great research D13), I’ve also heard of people that opted to not carry insurance even though they could afford it. Sort of hedging their bets that they wouldn’t get caught and then low and behold something struck and they were stuck with big medical bills (and now are crying wolf!)

              Same question here – where is the personal responsibility?

              • Rolled the dice and it came up snake eyes… Go to Vegas, take your chance, and when it does not work..go to the Casino and ask for your money back?

              • Exactly.

              • The best part of that is the young are those opting out of insurance when they can afford such. They ARE the ones insurance companies and the bureaucracy itself are counting on to pay for things. They are the absolute least likely to actually use insurance thus its their “gravy” everyone is counting on for the feast. I’m certain though they won’t mind being forced into it now that the hip POTUS has told them to. Right…

            • Oh…side note: Before some of you on the far left ask: Yes, I do have a disability policy that will protect my income until retirement takes over. Just took it out because I do not want any part of the National Health Insurance… pays $75,000 per year until age 65….do not smoke..do not drink..(alcohol)…good health…do not eat right but who gives a s***. I like hamburgers and things but do exercise regularly. Have zero credit card debt, by design (which means I live within my means)…have a health savings account just in case. Put two kids through college (it can be done). Not being a martyr but showing it can be done with fiscal responsibility… have supplemental health insurance to augment Vaterans health. Opted out of Tricare… Oh…forgot to mention the cost above….$38 per month at age 61 to cover me until age 65. That is less than the cost of internet service or eating out twice a month.

              I call this personal responsibility. My kids nor taxpayers will have to pay for me..(except for my Veteran benefit after 40 years). However, I do have supplemental insurance because even under the Veterans Health care, there is a deductible and out of pocket expense.

              So, it can be done. It is called planning.

            • So they just as easily could have been bankrupted by having to pick up your Dr Pepper tab for the year on a bad bet or getting into an accident where alcohol was involved and their insurance company not liable to support.

  6. Off topic,

    A new question. I gave blood the other day, they seem to ask a dozen questions about if you EVER had a homosexual relation (if I’m going to lie once, why not a dozen times?). Final question, “what was my birth gender?”

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticize
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin’.
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Bob Dylan

    I’ve switch the order of the song words around. Hope this did not come out for or against homosexuals, for me its more a statement of how beuracratic and screwed up everything has become. I usually give blood two to four times a year, and it takes longer to do the paperwork each time.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside
    And it is ragin’.
    It’ll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    • Makes me want to add “Burma Shave” at the end of it. (Ages me tho) Good post, my friend.

  7. I love Bob Cesca.

  8. Hi All

    Looks slow here today, so I thought I’d put this up. Maybe it will start a conversation or an argument. Either way.

    Judy

    _______________________________________________________________
    BELGRADE, Mont. — President Obama on Friday finally had to face a challenge at a town-hall-style meeting about the bottom line of his health care plan.

    A Montana man asserted that Obama would have to raise Americans’ taxes to pay for his plan to overhaul the health care system.

    Obama agreed that he couldn’t cover another 46 million people for free, citing an estimate of the number of uninsured Americans. But he told the man there are steps that he would take to avoid raising taxes on 95 percent of Americans, as he has pledged. One option, he said, is to eliminate subsidies to insurance companies and instead shift the subsidies to low-income Americans to help them buy insurance.

    Obama also said he isn’t trying to vilify the insurance companies, but rather stop their practices that hurt people — a distinction made in response to a question from an insurance salesman about the president’s change in terminology. Obama has switched from calling for “health reform” to “health insurance reform.” He’s also complained about insurance companies’ profits.

    The president says his intent was not to target all big companies. He said some, like Aetna, are working with the administration on overhaul. But he said others are spending money to oppose his efforts to remake the system.

    Obama was in Montana to push for his top domestic priority and regain the initiative in the bitter debate.He kicked off the meeting with a pointed joke: He said Montana has bears, moose and elk, and “in Washington, you just mostly have bull.”

    Later, Obama denounced what he suggested was news media overemphasis on scenes of angry protesters at town-hall meetings on health care. “TV loves a ruckus,” Obama said.

    “What you haven’t seen on TV and what makes me proud are the many constructive meetings going on all over the country,” he said.

    He said Americans are being held hostage by health insurance companies that deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions or cancel coverage when people get sick.

    While hundreds demonstrated outside, there was no sign of protesters on the airstrip where Air Force One landed or inside the hangar at the airport near Bozeman.

    Minutes after Obama landed, a downpour began, making it difficult to hear inside the metal-roofed hangar. A crowd the White House estimated at 1,300 took up half of the space, sitting politely as Obama gave introductory remarks.

    The president appeared in campaign mode. He showed up in a suit, but no tie. As he began to take questions, he took off his coat and rolled up his sleeves.

    “I know there’s been a lot of attention paid to some of the town hall meetings that are going on around the country, especially when tempers flare,” Obama said.

    He said that what weren’t being shown were the gatherings in which people “are coming together and having a civil, honest, often difficult conversation about how we can improve the system.”

    Obama aimed part of his pitch at Americans who already have health insurance.

    “Most of us have insurance, and most of us think, knock on wood, and think: ‘I’m going to stay healthy,”‘ Obama said.

    He cited examples in which people have lost their insurance, including when going from job to job and because of pre-existing conditions.

    • Judy, yes, a little slow.

      Lets start with Obama said he would resolve health care by meeting on the floor of congress, live on C-span, and bring both parties together for a resolution. He also said there would be complete transparency. What has he done? He meets with the drug companies behind closed doors, and will not even release the names of who he’s met with.

      They have called this health care reform, but there is little “reform” to it, more accurate to call it requiring insurance for all Americans.

      “Obama agreed that he couldn’t cover another 46 million people for free, citing an estimate of the number of uninsured Americans.” 11 million of them are illegal aliens,
      which are still left out of any plan, so they will still go to the ER for “free” treatment, and the cost is passed on to the rest of us.

      20 million can afford insurance, but choose not to, instead they pay ass they need to. Which leaves 15 million this is actually going to help. I guess that doesn’t sell as well, that “we are going to get the 15 million Americans who cannot afford insurance, covered”.

      I think it goes back to their intentions, insurance reform did not need a thousand page bill. He called this health reform, now its insurance reform. Reality, this sets up the mechanism for a single payer system. Its not about money, its about giving the government control of another part of our lives. Remember, you can sue your insurance company, but not the government.

  9. Bob does get worked up, and I agree that some of the descriptions he uses are inflammatory. But I’d like to address the point of his article. It is reprehensible at the least, and likely criminal, for any news agency to print or broadcast the full name and town of residence of a child. If they had made all of their statements without including her name, I would have no problem with it.

    There has already been violence (from the left and right) around this issue, and to pinpoint an eleven year-old on national news is very, very bad. A quick search will instantly find this girl’s home address. A little more effort, you’ll find where she goes to school each day. There are three hundred million people in this country. Even though only a very tiny percentage of them are violent, if you multiply a tiny percentage times three hundred million, you’ll get a lot of violent people looking at this kid. Would you want that for your kid?

    • swift,

      A fair point, but have you checked to see everyone who gave that information out? Hold them to the same level of accountability. Have you looked for those who left out her family’s direct connection to Obama? How do you feel when they purposely do not report something that changes a story 180 degrees? You might also think about her mother, who intentionally made her child a “public figure”.

    • SWIFT;

      You need to ask yourself this one question – WHY DID THE MOTHER PUT HER DAYGHTER OUT IN FRONT OF THE NEWS MEDIA?

      So I ask you then, why are YOU trying to blame the news media when the girls mother was the one who put her out there to be looked at?

  10. Black Flag says:

    Judy

    More of me….

    By wars with government, I lived all through the Caribbean, bring clients on to segements of the cable systems I was ‘hawking’.

    Among my clients were airlines. Another accident of friends of clients and all. I ended up working with a lot of small airlines.

    I had just installed the new internet link for an airline, and with the CFO and Sr. Network Administrator, we brought up BBC on the ‘net.

    First picture we saw was the World Trade Center burning….

    Aghast, we were stuck watching the computer…when plane 2 hit.

    2 seconds after that, the CFO yelled “Get every one of my planes on the ground RIGHT NOW! I don’t care where they are… get them down NOW!!”

    A 2-bit airline’s executive knew what was happening….

    … amazingly, the President of the USA did not…..

    • The POTUS of that time wasn’t watching television, he was in a classroom with small children.

      GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT BEFORE YOU CONDEMN!

      • Black Flag says:

        The Secret Service updated him on the spot.

        …and he paid no attention to them…

        Get your facts straight, Papa

        • BF, he was reading to a group of small children. I think his instinct was to not freak out and freak everyone else out. They didn’t need a bunch of little kids in panic mode!

          • Black Flag says:

            Riiigghhht. He reads for 40 minutes while America is under attack……

            That makes him incompetent.

        • BS flag being pitched here, BF.

          You, of all people should know how the chain works. I will be brief.

          I once knew a Colonel that was in charge of a tank battalion in combat. He gets the update immediately that one of his positions was in danger of being overrun. He did not stop what he was doing because he knew full well that the contingency plans were in place for this eventuality and he would continue to get updates as things progressed. He knew that his company commanders knew contingencies and he let them respond… but kept briefed.

          9-11….airline executive is a company commander….he immediately did the right thing and did not need a President to tell him to ground airlines. It was common sense.

          The Company commander did not need his colonel to tell him what to do. He did it.

          I was brief and I let my company commander handle the situation and provided support after I had all the information. Same analogy, I think. Don’t you?

          D13.

      • Black Flag says:

        If you truly believe a two-bit airline executive knew more at the time, and knew what was going on better then the US President…

        I have some swamp land for sale….

    • BF, how do you know what he knew? You sometimes do seem to have uncanny insight – think you are a little carried away this time.

      • Black Flag says:

        I can surmise what he knew. He is the most informed man of national events than anyone in the USA.

  11. Another off topic post, welcome to democracy Afghanistan.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/14/afghanistan-womens-rights-rape

    We waste all those lives and resources throwing out the Taliban and this is the result.

    • When dealing with elements of a tribal society, anticipate such and you’ll never be disappointed.

  12. You think POTUS could get Dakota Fanning to play the part of “concerned little girl” in the next Town Hall? She was great in Push.

    • You are ON your game Alan!!! Funny!!!

      • In the same genre I ran into this amazing bit of business:

        “One supporter, Roxana Mayer, praised the reform plan for overhauling a broken system.

        “I don’t know what there is in the bill that creates such panic,” she said.

        Mayer identified herself as a physician who does not live in Jackson Lee’s district. However, her name does not appear in the database maintained by the Texas Medical Board, which licenses all doctors in Texas.

        In an e-mail to the Chronicle on Thursday morning, Mayer confirmed she is not a licensed physician.

        “I have been advised to refrain from making any further statements,” she said.

        In the initial story about the event, the Chronicle reported that she was a doctor based on her claim at the meeting.

        Today, Jackson Lee denied knowing Mayer.”

        So fake doctors get time to speak but the real thing and their patients don’t? What the hell is going on there in America? Where’s POTUS’ righteous indignation for this obvious fraudulent attempt to use the “position of authority” of a real physician, whose words will be seen by some as worth altering their very position over, to sway the audience? He’s certainly heard of this as his “brownshirts” comb the internet locating dissenters.

  13. BF

    You lost me with your comment from last night at 11:44 p.m.. Would you please clarify what you’re talking about because I’m stumped.

    Thanks.

  14. Okay BF, since you didn’t get back to yet, let me guess at what I think you might be talking about, and let me know if I’m right.

    For some reason, you seem to think that Bush knew about the planes were going hit the Trade Centers. Come on, BF do you honestly believe that? Why on earth would he kill 3000 people, and for what purpose would he have in doing so? That makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

    When they showed him being told by one of his secret service guys, you could see the shocked look on his face. Yes, he was reading to kids a book when he was told, and continued to read to them. What was he suppose to do, jump up and act like a chicken without it’s head running around the class room, yelling the Trade Centers been hit, the Trade Centers been hit? He acted accordingly for what I saw.

    There’s one thing I learned when Bush was President, and that he wasn’t afraid to show his emotions. You could see he was very upset by what happened. How can you not see that? I honestly believe that he was genuinely upset by what happened, and he did what he had to do when he did it.

    But for some reason, you think otherwise, and that he knew. WHY?
    Because he didn’t react right away, and run out the door, or what?
    I am really confused by your comments BF, and don’t understand your logic. That’s why I asked you to clarify what you said. Please, I would like to know if what you said has anything to do with what I just said. Will be waiting for your answer.

    Judy

    • Black Flag says:

      False Flags often have been used to put a nation to war.

      For a modern example for the USA, google “Northwoods False Flag”

      Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false-flag plan, proposed within the United States government in 1962

      It is preposterous, in the modern perspective, for the President to be so cavalier. This is a nation that sits on a hair trigger for nuclear war. Missiles launch and land in 30 minutes. Sitting around listen to kids….come on!

      The response should have been “Excuse me, children, I have a duty I need to attend to… Thank you!” and leave. What is this nonsense of “frightening the children”???? You think he would jump up and scream??

      Governments – including the USA – have absolutely no qualms about placing the citizens in harms way, or committing them to death. Do not believe the US government will not do the same – it has in the past, and will do so again and again.

      I know he knew, because he said so. He said he saw the first plane crash into the building. This is very important.

      1) No photo or film of the first plane crash was available until hours later – since no one knew it was coming. By accident a film crew happened to capture it – but it didn’t make to MSM feeds for hours.

      2) He was in the classroom when #2 hit. There was no TV there for him to see it.

      Therefore, his statement is utterly bizarre – it is impossible for him to have seen any crash.

      But I believe him in what said. I believe he did see the first crash. There is no way the President of the USA would make such a story up

      • Okay, maybe he did see the first crash, maybe he thought it was one of those small planes that hit by accident, after all, it did happen before. But, for the life of me BF, I really can’t imagine he knew that something was going to happen, and didn’t do anything about it.

        I still think to this day, and you can’t change my mind on this, that he let it happen and let all those people get killed. What would he have to gain by it? I can’t imagine that he would or could be so evil as to let something like that happen BF, I will never believe that.

        Okay, sure, maybe he should have said something to those kids, I really don’t know, and I can’t put myself in his place there. But I still think he did the right thing, when he did it. I think he was in a state of shock like everybody else.

        What about when the Trade Center was hit the first time back in 93, and Clinton didn’t do a damn thing about it, and you know that. Oh, What, go bomb an aspirin factory, give me a break. He could have done something then, but chose not to do anything. He could have had Bin Laden on a silver platter, but said no, give him to the Saudis, and they didn’t want him. So he just more or less let him go, and 8 years later, he hit again. And you know damn well it was Bin Laden the first time, because for what I understand, he admitted it.

        So, please, don’t try and convince me that Bush knew about what was going to happen, it doesn’t wash with me. I really can’t believe that.

        I will google what you suggested and see what that is all about.

        • BF, just so you know, I googled that and read what it said, but it’s very hard for me to believe and understand why the U.S. would do something like that.

          Of course, I was only in the 6th grade then, so why would I know that, I was just a kid myself, and didn’t know anything about that stuff. As far as I know, we never, ever learned anything about that in school. But then, why would they teach something like that. I was in the 7th grade when Kennedy was assassinated, and I know there were theories on that one. Like one of them being LBJ having him assassinated.

          But, I will never, ever believe that Bush knew what was going to happen, and let it. Because if that was the case, you’d think there would be, and still be investigations going on about that, don’t you think. Or do you know something the rest of us don’t?

          • Hi Judy,

            The Northwoods Operation was to create a reason to attack Cuba, by making it appear they were attacking us. We would not have heard about this at the time, no way, no how:

            “The previously secret document was originally made public on November 18, 1997…”

            AND:

            “Journalist James Bamford summarized Operation Northwoods in his April 24, 2001 book Body of Secrets:

            Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

  15. Okay, BF, I’m waiting for your answer here. It’s 2:08 here, and it would be nice if I can have your answer before I go to bed tonight. Don’t how many hours there between where you live and where I live. But I go to bed about 10:30 p.m.

  16. Southern Discomfort says:

    The truth is that anyone can take facts and mold them to meet one’s own beliefs. When we learn to view an issue from both sides, the clowns become apparent enough, it is too bad that those who refuse or are unable to think for themselves are willing to follow the circus.

  17. v. Holland says:

    Just came across this article on Huff-I can’t believe they are even bringing up the KKK.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/clyburn-town-hall-protest_n_259118.html

    • I got about half way, but couldn’t finish. These town hall meetings don’t have anything to do with race, give me a break. Why does the race card always have to come out? It has nothing to do with civil rights, that’s a whole different matter.

      These town hall meetings are people’s way of letting the government know we don’t like what he wants to do with health care/health insurance, at least that’s what’s I’m assuming they’re about, not race. That shouldn’t even be brought into the picture. Civil right’s and discontent with the way the government is trying to meddle with our lives are two totally different things. Why can’t these people see the difference? I’m tired and fed up with the ” racism” thing always coming into light.

      • v. Holland says:

        Yea, I wonder just who I’m racist against, because quite frankly my health care costs are crazy, we’re self employed and my husband has a preexisting condition, but I still know that we do not need this bill passed, so who am I racist against-myself.

        • Then, I guess that’s makes 2 of V. Seems we can’t say or do anything without it being called racist. We have health insurance through our work, especially since it’s a lab that we work in. There are a lot of chemicals that we deal with everyday, and if something should happen, then what.

          It’s my brother in laws business, and the state made sure he has it in case of accidents. The two and half years I’ve been there, nothing has happened. I’m not sure what he pays a month, but at least it’s there for now anyway. It’ll probably change if Obama gets his way.

          It’s not enough he has to pay $4000 just to have his business license, has to pay higher taxes on his business, and God only knows what else. Right now it’s doing good, but once winter sets in, we have a much slower income. Can’t get samples if there is snow on the ground and the pipes are frozen.

          • v. Holland says:

            Hopefully nothing will happen, I’ve always called insurance legalized stealing but it does have a purpose and as far as medical insurance I still have the right to make my own decisions, medical and economical and I’d like to keep it that way.

            It’s really too bad that our politicians have to cheapen everything just for political power-true racism is a really bad thing but because of their constant fake use of the word it’s starting to mean nothing. I hear the word racism anymore and all I think is -what crap is being peddled now.

            • I agree, it is legalized stealing, not enough you have to pay a deductible, and that includes car insurance as well.

              They won’t be happy until they total control of everything V, and that includes out lives.

              My husband said, time to move to Australia, but he’s been saying that for years. Wonder of it’s any better there. My son was there on his way for his second tour of Iraq, and said the people there were very friendly, but doesn’t know how their government runs.

              BTW, did you get that burger last night, how was it?

              • v. Holland says:

                Yea, I did get that burger and some fries to go with it, thought about a frosty to go with it but decided against it-ate a cake roll instead-guess they will have to charge me a higher rate for my insurance-HE he-

                Don’t know a lot about Australia, except I’d like to go there for a vacation one day-would take a lot to get me to leave America-it’s my home.

              • Hey V, gonna have to get back to you later, we’re on our way out. Hubby’s hungry and wants to eat.

                Catch ya when I get back.

                Judy

              • v. Holland says:

                Okay, enjoy!

  18. v. Holland says:

    http://www.breitbart.tv/06-flashback-pelosi-tells-anti-war-protesters-im-a-fan-of-disruptors/

    You should watch the one on the President too-his use of the word mandantory and his wife saying things like- won’t let you-doesn’t bring the word freedom to mind.

    • Hey, V we’re back, didn’t take long. Went to one of our favorite places in town.

      Watched some of that video, but it was Princess Pelosi, and I couldn’t listen to anymore of her dribble. She understands how we feel, you’re an American if you protest, then you’re not. She can’t make up her mind on what to say.

      OH!, They’re all a bunch of blow-hards, and they all talk out of both sides of their mouths. I think I need a political vacation, and talk about something different.

      • v. Holland says:

        Sorry, I missed you last night-had company drop by-hope you enjoyed your dinner

        • Morning V.

          That’s okay, no biggie. Dinner was fine, went to a place called P.J’s & Company, been around for years. One of our favorite places to go, no crowds what so ever, got right in. It’s a relatively small place, only seats about 60 people. Jim and his brother go there at least once a week.

          My son was over last night, and we had a pretty good visit, talked about a lot of things, especially what goes on here on a daily basis. He left around 9:30 or so, and I was pretty tired anyway. Went shopping for my mom yesterday, since today is her birthday, and we are all taking her out to dinner tonight. She is a proud 87 today, and going strong.

          Hope your day is going well.

          Judy

  19. Black Flag says:

    Judy S.

    Okay, maybe he did see the first crash, maybe he thought it was one of those small planes that hit by accident, after all, it did happen before.

    The point, Judy….

    How did he see the first crash?????

    If no one knew it was coming, how was it being recorded while it happened for Bush to see it a short handful of minutes later?? The first (and only) film of the crash wasn’t found until hours later.

    If he saw it (as he said he did) there had to be foreknowledge.

    But, for the life of me BF, I really can’t imagine he knew that something was going to happen, and didn’t do anything about it.

    I do.

    The events as they played out, plus the consequences of the events all point to, at the best case, foreknowledge.

    I still think to this day, and you can’t change my mind on this, that he let it happen and let all those people get killed. What would he have to gain by it?

    His gain – wars in the Middle East.

    The USA has been provocating for intervention into the Middle East since the end of the Second World War.

    Who benefits from a fully militarily engaged American in the Middle East?

    I can’t imagine that he would or could be so evil as to let something like that happen BF, I will never believe that.

    Evil is a definition of man.

    Different men define it differently. I am sure that the Elites around Bush do not see their actions as evil. But I do.

    Okay, sure, maybe he should have said something to those kids, I really don’t know, and I can’t put myself in his place there.

    He has been trained for decades to handle such circumstances.

    Do not think that a man who becomes President is some country-bumbkin.

    He has been taught, re-taught, tested, torn down, built up, re-built and trained for that job…..or else he would have never gotten the job.

    A man whose finger, literally, quivers above the button that could set off global nuclear destruction of mankind is the biggest, meanest, hardest poker player on earth.

    But I still think he did the right thing, when he did it. I think he was in a state of shock like everybody else.

    State of shock!?!

    Impossible.

    He is prepared to launch 2,500 nuclear missiles and bombs on the world.

    This is a man who does not, cannot, get ‘brain freeze’.

    Ulcers, sleepless nights for weeks on end, drinking and marital problems — sure — brain freeze, never.

    What about when the Trade Center was hit the first time back in 93, and Clinton didn’t do a damn thing about it, and you know that. Oh, What, go bomb an aspirin factory, give me a break. He could have done something then, but chose not to do anything. He could have had Bin Laden on a silver platter, but said no, give him to the Saudis, and they didn’t want him.

    But the FBI has no evidence that Bin Laden is involved at all with any attack on the World Trade Center

    Go to their criminal complaint on Bin Laden.

    Direct from the FBI:

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

    USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA, AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE. IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

    This is important Judy, they do not make a single mention of any attack inside the USA.

    So he just more or less let him go, and 8 years later, he hit again. And you know damn well it was Bin Laden the first time, because for what I understand, he admitted it.

    In fact, he has never said so at all.

    He has said, in fact, that he has not involved himself at all, and said “If someone else breaks your enemies leg, one will rejoice regardless”.

    So, please, don’t try and convince me that Bush knew about what was going to happen, it doesn’t wash with me. I really can’t believe that. I will google what you suggested and see what that is all about.

    Belief vs Fact is always a war everyone, personally, fights against themselves.

    BF, just so you know, I googled that and read what it said, but it’s very hard for me to believe and understand why the U.S. would do something like that.

    Why?

    Governments throughout history understand that war is power. It is a very common tactic, used for 2,000 years, to pretend an ‘enemy’ has attacked the people so to agitate the people to attack the ‘enemy’.

    Why do you believe the US government is ‘somehow’ immune to this tactic?

    It is very important, Judy – Northwoods was signed off by Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US government.

    As far as I know, we never, ever learned anything about that in school. But then, why would they teach something like that.

    Exactly.

    But, I will never, ever believe that Bush knew what was going to happen, and let it. Because if that was the case, you’d think there would be, and still be investigations going on about that, don’t you think. Or do you know something the rest of us don’t?

    As long as the government is the entity that is charged with investigating the government, do you really expect the truth?

    • Did you ever happen to think that there were numerous people out there that had camcorders and took those pictures, and they in turn might have turned them over, and maybe that’s how he saw the pictures? It’s was the same way as we saw them BF, at least we did, I don’t know about you.

      They showed several different angles to where different people were standing when they showed those pictures, and they showed several different shots of the planes hitting the Trade Center. I’m going by what they showed on the news on every single channel that day, days after wards too.

      I’m sorry BF, but I can’t believe that Bush would do something like that just to start a war. Yea, I heard that he did it for revenge because Hussein had a contract out on his father, but there is no way in hell you can make me believe Bush would purposely kill 3000 people just to start a war.

      Why hasn’t there been more things on what the U.S. supposedly has or have done then? Why don’t they show more about it? It is incomprehensible to me how and why the U.S. would do that, kill their own, just to start war.

      I think right now, I am at a loss for words here, I really don’t know what else to say. I think maybe I’m in shock to even think such things can go on like that.

      • Judy,

        Did GWB ever make a miss-statement? I would like to see a comparison of him and Biden on foot in mouth moments. Comes down to believe what you want. Neither side of this debate can prove their point.

        • Good Morning LOI

          Of course Bush made miss-statements, they all have, no arguments there. And I agree with you about one side or the other proving their points. That can be argued until the cows come home.

          Today is my mother’s 87th birthday, and I refuse to argue with anybody about anything. Don’t want to spoil my good mood.

          Hope your day is going good.

          Judy

      • Black Flag says:

        Judy and LOI

        Did you ever happen to think that there were numerous people out there that had camcorders and took those pictures, and they in turn might have turned them over, and maybe that’s how he saw the pictures? It’s was the same way as we saw them BF, at least we did, I don’t know about you.

        There are probably 10,000 unique videos and photos of the second plane hitting the tower, because everyone was watching the first one burn.

        There is only one known video and no pictures of the first plane hitting the tower. If you can find another, please let me know.

        If Bush saw the first plane hit then it had to be a video taken from an undisclosed view – why hasn’t it been disclosed? Why was it watching the towers?

        They showed several different angles to where different people were standing when they showed those pictures, and they showed several different shots of the planes hitting the Trade Center. I’m going by what they showed on the news on every single channel that day, days after wards too.

        Of the second plane – but that plane hit when he was already in the school – he could not have seen that one.

        He saw the first plane … but how?

        I’m sorry BF, but I cn’t believe that Bush would do something like that just to start a war. Yea, I heard that he did it for revenge because Hussein had a contract out on his father, but there is no way in hell you can make me believe Bush would purposely kill 3000 people just to start a war.

        Happens all the time.

        Do you not recall the Spanish/American War?

        Do not fall into a belief that your government is somehow immune to tyranny.

        Why hasn’t there been more things on what the U.S. supposedly has or have done then? Why don’t they show more about it? It is incomprehensible to me how and why the U.S. would do that, kill their own, just to start war.

        Governments all over the world all across history have done so, including the US government. It is a tactic as old as government itself.

        One trusted pundit explained why there is no traction to investigate the US governments incompetence/culpability in 9/11.

        From his POV, there could be nothing good from it. The truth would destroy the People’s faith in government. But as he pointed out, the People are doomed.

        Their government has compelled the People into national suicide, and the People refuse to seek the truth because they fear national suicide.

        Life of Illusion

        Did GWB ever make a miss-statement? I would like to see a comparison of him and Biden on foot in mouth moments. Comes down to believe what you want. Neither side of this debate can prove their point.

        Sure he did. But here is two points.

        This is one of the most profound historical events in modern history. Everyone I know remembers like yesterday exactly where they were and what they were doing.

        Bush was a center piece of this event.

        And you wish me to believe he can’t remember what he was doing????

        Second, he has never corrected his statement. It stands as stated.

        Why are you trying to apologize for a statement that he has not disputed himself?

  20. Csm:

    Finally found that comment you asked about.

    Just A Citizen said
    August 6, 2009 at 7:24 pm
    BF posted the following the other day:

    “For the rest of us,

    If you want to understand what is really happening in the economy, the people you need to talk to are the one’s like Kristian Stout.

    1) A highly industrialized nation is prosperous because of a highly divisible specialization of labor.

    2) This high division of labor creates the conditions that labor upon goods is spread broadly throughout the economy

    3) Shipping goods between labor pools is a direct and measurable correlation of increasing or decreasing economic activity.

    Watch the shippers – truck, train, ship, plane – to know if the economy is improving or failing.

    The Baltic Dry Goods indes is still falling…”

    Just got home from the big trip to the UP and LP and back again.

    Every rail siding I passed along the way, and there were many, was full of empty rail cars.

    Just sitting there. I first noticed this in Montana about 4 months ago but even there it has increased.

    All types of cars are parked, empty, standing still.

    Will share more from the trip later but this one jumped out so thought I would post it right away.

    Best Regards to All
    JAC

    • Thanks JAC, there’s an economic blog I’ve been watching and the writer took a road trip recently and mentioned the same phenomena between Puget Sound and west of (into?) the Rockies. His post today is all deflation. I’m trying to reconcile that with what I’ve learned from BF, but I need to sleep on it. Here’s a link to the post from his trip. I’d like to see you and him and some of the others debate — that would be interesting.

      http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/hard-times-hit-good-people-of-kooskia.html

      Thanks again for looking that up. Did you find the link to the old article I posted on Lake Michigan? c

      • Csm:

        Those pictures are part of my stompin grounds. Down the road from Kooskia is Kamiah (Cam ee eye)where another sawmill is closed and in bankruptcy.

        About 70 miles west of Kamiah is Clarkston,WA and Lewiston, ID. Our version of the twin cities. Name of the legion ball team is even Twins. Another mill there has closed and will probably not open. Same for the mill in Orofino which is located between Kameai and Lewiston.

        I know the owners of all personally and one is a friend. Times have been hard on the timber industry for many years but the housing bubble burst has pretty much killed it.

        There is a major highway project ongoing east of Kooskia that will take two years to complete. A few locals got jobs but the crews are spending money on motel and meals. And this was not a Stimulus Project, although it may be getting some funds from that source now.

        We are seeing deflation in some areas Csm. I think you will find that what BF and I have been warning about is the inflation to come. If the Fed starts pulling money out of the market to keep inflation under control we could see deflation go and come back.

        Historically countries recover from severe deflation (think great depression) but hyperinflation destroys them.

        I will keep tabs on this site though and perhaps throw my hat in once and awhile.

        The Lolo Trail they talked about is a place I actually lived and worked for 6 years, though farther up river from Kooskia. The picture of the guys feet with mountains and Bear Grass looks like the Trail. My home would have been in the bottom of the Canyon in the picture. And everything on the other side of the canyon, the mountains in the background is Wilderness (about 3 million acres of Wilderness). Lewis and Clark not only used the trail but the Nez Perce indians used it to travel from near Walla Walla, WA to eastern Montana to hunt buffalo and trade with the Crow, Sioux, etc. Lewis and Clark almost starved travelling that section of the trail because all the game lives downslope, very very steep slopes.

        There are still rock piles along the trail where the Indians and later trappers and guides would mark spots where trails would lead down to water or game. Some would leave messages. Thus the location of one pile marks “Post Office Creek”.

        Thought you might like a little extra story to go along.

        Bye the way, some of the rail cars I mentioned seeing 4 months ago were the lumber cars these guys saw near Kooskia, Kamiah, and Orofino and then north to St. Maries, Idaho. It looks like now they have been joined by other types of cars.

        Hope you have a great Sunday
        JAC

        • What ticks me off is our land management. How many major forest fires do we have each year that would be minor if we allowed sensible logging? Cheaper wood means lower housing construction costs. But if its good for private business or the economy, our current government will be against it.

          • If that ticks you off try this.

            Most of the trees killed by fire on federal lands aren’t even salvaged. The environmental laws requiring Environmental Impact Statements take so long to complete that most of the wood has lost value before it can be salvaged.

            The private lands are salvaged right away. The state a little longer but still recover most value. The Feds recover very little.

            LOI, part of the problem is in defining “sensible logging”. Much of the current insect infestation in the west is in lodgepole pine forest types. Partial cutting these types is not reasonable. They evolved with large forest killing fire ecology. Clear cutting is the best option. Most people hate clear cutting.

            Aside from public preference the fact is that our federal environmental laws have essentially halted all management on federal lands and is now threatening private land management as well. Until the people wake up and Congress grows some brass, nothing will change.

            I guess that applies to all things doesn’t it?

            The best to you this AM
            JAC

  21. Thanks JAC, there's an economic blog I've been watching and the writer took a road trip recently and mentioned the same phenomena between Puget Sound and west of (into?) the Rockies. His post today is all deflation. I'm trying to reconcile that with what I've learned from BF, but I need to sleep on it. Here's a link to the post from his trip. I'd like to see you and him and some of the others debate — that would be interesting.

    http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/hard-times-hit-good-people-of-kooskia.html

    Thanks again for looking that up. Did you find the link to the old article I posted on Lake Michigan? c; Thanks JAC, there's an economic blog I've been watching and the writer took a road trip recently and mentioned the same phenomena between Puget Sound and west of (into?) the Rockies. His post today is all deflation. I'm trying to reconcile that with what I've learned from BF, but I need to sleep on it. Here's a link to the post from his trip. I'd like to see you and him and some of the others debate — that would be interesting.

    http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/hard-times-hit-good-people-of-kooskia.html

    Thanks again for looking that up. Did you find the link to the old article I posted on Lake Michigan? c;;

  22. For BF

    If you should happen to come here today, I’ll talk about anything you want, except the subject of any type of politics. I need a break from that for at least one day. Is that a deal?

    Judy

  23. One for you guys to watch and on topic through most of it to boot.

    http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=YTBmOWQ1N2E2ZjBlYmQ4YWYyMzM5ZjBjZTNmZWE3Y2M=

  24. Black Flag says:

    Tommy Bahama

    His post today is all deflation. I’m trying to reconcile that with what I’ve learned from BF, but I need to sleep on it.

    Tommy, start with definitions.

    What is ‘deflation’ and what is ‘inflation’?

    Simply put, deflation is when there is a contraction of the money supply – inflation is when there is an expansion of the money supply.

    This is wholly in the power of government – as they control the creation of the means of measuring money – the currency.

    So, let’s take a quick snap shot of what as happened.

    We have had a massive injection of currency into the economy for nearly 100 years, with most of it occurring after 1975. Almost all of it, since 1990 has been exported into foreign central banks. They have taken our green pieces of paper, given us real stuff like cars and TV’s, and they have NOT spent those pieces of paper buying our stuff.

    This has exported American inflation. We print money, it goes offshore under another countries ‘mattress’. The net effect in the USA is pretty much single digit inflation…

    With the economic crisis, banks have withdrawn the welcome mat for more loans. Instead, they have forced a lot of loans into repayment. You pay off your credit card, and the cut back your limit.

    What is the net effect? A contraction of currency in the economy. You earn $100, pay off a debt, but that $100 is not re-lent. It is taken out of the economy. The amount of money in the nation shrinks – deflation.

    Other things. With easy credit, business went bonkers making things. Lots and lots of things. Piles and piles of things. Now, with no money being lent, no one is buying. Lots and lots of inventory that was built with borrowed money. Banks want their money back.

    So, inventories are being sold off at near-fire sale prices. How can a factory making a ‘new’ TV today compete with a fire-sale of TV’s made yesterday? So factories stop producing until TV’s inventories are lowered. People are laid off. Who is going to by the inventory of TV’s??

    The Government has dramatically increased its financial demands and competes for the same capital that the economy needs. If you have money, where are you going to put it? A business that makes TV’s? Who is going to buy the TV’s? OR… with the government that simply needs to print money to repay you. Capital is further reduced for business, and depression continues.

    Benefit of depression: money buys more tomorrow than today – drives up savings. However, depressions are hard on debtors – their debt gets more expensive every day – they have to work harder to stay even. Benefit: production per person increases, which strengths the benefits of high division of labor, and strengths the economy for the long term. However, people do not like to work harder, so they will demand more government intervention to reduce their labor effort.

    Government has injected $24 trillion in the economy. Where is it? In the FED. Banks have kept their capital in Reserve – they’d rather earn 0.15% at the FED then risk the money at any price in the market.

    The FED will force the banks to lend. Then inflation will explode. We are seeing a fairly significant increase in prices in commodities – watch food prices. They are going up. Why? There is no real inventory for food. Unlike a TV, it rots if it is not eaten. There is not a large, unused inventory sitting around for food.

    Food and commodities will always lead inflation elsewhere. When food starts going up, inflation is around the corner.

    What is the future? Likely, stagflation like we’ve never seen before. Low production as government eats all the economic output, and inflation from unending government injections into unproductive segments of the economy.

    How to survive –( because for the normal person, there is no way to actively profit from this disaster). Marry a farmer

    If that is not a realistic option, the best alternative is to ensure you have a solid store of food to hold over your family for at least 6 months – 1 year is better.

    Buy enough oz. of gold to pay off your house. Divide what you owe on your house debt by $5,000 and that is the number of oz. of gold. When gold hits $5,000/oz. pay off your house. (If cash is very short, use $7,500 as a figure – at least you can pay off MOST of your house when it hits $5,000).

    • Black Flag says:

      As JAC said, you can recover from a depression.

      Depressions ‘reset’ the economy that is overly organized to satisfy current consumption vs future consumption. The USA economy is way over focused on current (short term) consumption.

      It will take a decade, maybe two, to bring it into balance – but if government gets involved, it may take two generations.

      Hyperinflation will destroy the nation. Millions will die.

    • HI BF — you seem restless today, hope all is well… some clarification if you have time please — money supply ‘ the definition accepted by the Austrian School of economics. DEFLATION IS A DECREASE IN THE TOTAL STOCK OF THE MEANS OF PAYMENT – OR “MONEY” ‘ … This does not include credit? does Keynes count it?

      Arrgh, my brain just exploded — maybe what I need defined is credit and then i’ll wonder whether it is part of the money supply. Is the cash I just borrowed from you (yeah, right, I know, but bear with me…) part of the money supply. Seems to be, it’s here burning a hole in my pocket. But instead, I’m responsible and pay debt with it ( not smart, all I’ve accomplished is a shell game with my existing and now new creditors… but it works for washington…)

      too many directions… if credit is part of the money supply, how is it counted? line of credit? twice– you count your money and so do I…(hmmm that sounds familiar)

      I’m pretty sure this is not coherent. If you pick thru and answer, I’ll let you lead… c

      • Csm:

        Before you go any further please read the following from Wikipedia:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

        Make sure you go through the example of Laura? and how money is created by the Fractional Reserve Banking procedures.

        Then take 4 tylenol and chase it with a glass of Jack Daniels.

        OK maybe you should keep Uncle Jack out of it. He’s not very political nor economically savvy.

        And don’t go out and hang yourself of to and shoot some SOB politician.

        Many polytickshuns don’t even know what “fractional reserve lending” means.

        They sure don’t understand that the banks all get fees from those “made up dollars”.

        Care to say “Kill the Fed” anyone?

        I would say sleep easy but I know you won’t once you understand how the supply is created and who is profiting from it.

        So I will just say: Best wishes my friend.
        JAC

        • whenever I decide someone needs shot, I distract myself by trying to remember the exact lines from ‘The Hitchhiker’s Guide’ about the revolution and the first a$%^!les up against the wall. It’s been too long since I read it and I usually end up hunting down a copy and searching for the passage… by that time, I’ve calmed down… Don’t Panic!

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