Open Mic Continuing Conversations… August 26, 2009

Wow, over 600 comments in the open mic thread. I read through many of them and found that many discussions were still going on. So I have decided to start a new thread spot over here. Instead of scrolling through 600 comments over and over as you debate, you can copy the comment you want to reply to, paste it as a comment over here, and then reply and begin the conversation over here. It should make it easier to continue the discussions today and give you all kind of a clean pallet to begin with as the new days comes upon us. I will post a few comments as an example of what I mean. I know that some of you will get the idea immediately, while others will be unsure what I mean to be able to do.

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Comments

  1. Chris Devine said

    August 27, 2009 at 1:20 am e

    “Across the nation this summer, unknown numbers of people are hunkering down and arming up for what they believe is an imminent battle for the soul of America. Town halls and tea parties provide just a small glimpse of the rage, fear, and paranoia fomenting on front porches and in Internet chat rooms, in the conservative heartland and beyond. While the details may vary, the visions in such forums share a common theme: In one way or another, a fight to the death is coming, and coming soon.

    These deep-seated fears explain at least some of the vitriol, the violent scuffles, and death threats bubbling up in town hall protests against health care reform. It’s all too easy for certain right-wing activists to accept that the president’s plan will create death panels or mandate taxpayer-funded abortions. Because some of these people don’t just believe that Obama wants to destroy capitalism and kill their granny and their unborn child—they believe he wants to kill them, too.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/08/health-care-reform-reviving-militia-movement

    • Chris,

      I see this as more rhetoric. I think the threat is very real, don’t get me wrong. But it sounds as though someone wants to paint conservatives as maniacs who are looking to start a revolution of armed revolt. And I think that spreading such madness is just as dangerous as those folks who want the armed revolt.

      Conservatives in America are feeling threatened, but it isn’t just conservatives. And it isn’t because they are dumb hicks fooled into thinking the stupidity that this article offers. It is real Americans, all over the place, who see government growing in size and scope, and who see government as caring less and less about the average American. I submit to you that the vast majority of Americans are not looking to “revolt”, they are preparing to defend themselves if necessary from a government that seems to be spinning out of control at a rapid pace.

      The article goes out of its way to point to some signs at events comparing Obama to Hitler and saying death to Obama. What I despise is the radical left pretending that violence and completely ignorant signs and statement are the sole domain of the kooks on the far right. Don’t forget that it was code Pink who carried signs calling for the murder of American troops. Don’t forget it was the far left that had similar signs saying almost identical things about George Bush. For the hatemongers on the left to rally a call against the far right in America is hypocrisy at its finest.

      It is writers like the one who offered this article and ones on the right that do the same who are the CAUSE of the rising rhetoric, increasing hostility, and ignorance of the “far” portions on both sides of the fence.

      Shame on you for continuing to spread such nonsense rather than using your intellect to see the truth around what is happening in America. I don’t defend the wackos on the far right. Stop pretending those you are citing aren’t the exact same thing on the far left. An article like this one is just as hateful and dangerous as any person at a tea party or town hall with a sign.

      • Chris Devine says:

        I personally know people like the author describes. One in particular brought a gun to work (in a secure area at Edwards AFB). He also: fortified his house in preparation for the Y2K rapture, is a member of the John Birch Society and told me he thought homosexuals were the greatest threat to America. I also know many colleagues of his (of varying degrees of nuttiness).

        While the author may share some blame for the rising rhetoric (I’ll take some as well), the fact remains that there are very powerful organizations fanning these flames. Among them are Fox News, the Family Research Council, FreedomWorks, and Americans for Prosperity. They are all on the right.

        I don’t doubt there are some nuts on the left, but comparing opposition to an unjust war to opposition to health care reform is stretching it quite a bit. Also Bush had been in office for quite a while before things got ugly with him. Obama hadn’t even been inaugurated when the kooks on the right mobilized. Keep in mind there is no militia movement on the left (certainly not one with a recent history of armed confrontation with the government).

        I guess we’ll just have to disagree about this article. I don’t see it as hateful. Inflammatory perhaps, maybe even hyperbolic, but not hateful. However, I do consider the vitriol coming from Limbaugh, Savage, Beck, and Hannity to be quite hateful.

        BTW, did you forget I am a veteran too?

        • “Animal rights” whackos having their children placed in protective custody to be saved by drugs from companies who do animal testing. Tree-huggers burning properties of those ignoring their picketing. Unionist thugs filling an NYC phone book with their assault charges over the years. Lefties even the Obama bastion CNN labels terrorists? Please stop me! This is too easy!

        • Chris:

          You create a trap in your position that does not allow those of us who oppose the progressive movement and those in control who are part of it.

          If we tell the truth about what it is and how it will destroy what is left of the legacy of this country we can be accused of “fanning the flames”.

          Therefore we must remain silent or wash down our comments to the point it becomes meaningless.

          The fact remains that those folks who you think of as militia exist regardless of the rhetoric. Nothing can fan the flames as they are always burning hot. Just as with Earth First and all of its off shoots, like ELF. These groups by the way have actually initiated confrontations with the govt, using weapons, and have done far more damage to property than any militia movement. In fact I am not aware of any confrontation between militia and govt that wasn’t initiated by the govt.

          I know you will want to use McVeigh here but I do not believe he was part of an organized militia attack. I may not be remembering exactly but didn’t he and a few friends act on their own?

          I see no evidence of the “militias” or the “militia movement” growing. And I live among them and see them regularly. They are in fact attending meetings run by others to express their concerns. There were many among the first tea parties.

          What I do see is a growing organized movement by the normally silent citizens who call themselves “conservative”. In our area that includes many Democrats who are turned off by the “progressives”. This movement is educating itself about what is going on in this country and are starting to hold their elected officials accountable.

          • Chris Devine says:

            Oklahoma City

          • Chris Devine says:

            If you’ll take the time to read the article he isn’t just talking about an organized militia movement. He is talking about conservative politicians and pundits pushing the buttons of individuals, especially those who have armed themselves to the teeth and are itching for a showdown.

        • Chris Devine,

          I did not forget you are a veteran too. As such you have my eternal gratefulness. I was trying to include as many names as possible and I had mentioned yours already! But it doesn’t change that I have that respect for you as well. I utterly enjoy that you participate here, as you bring an entirely different perspective that is important for me to learn and understand.

          I understand where I think you are coming from in regard to this article and the things you are talking about. There are violent forces on the left and the right. I agree that the militia movement seems to take hold in the right a bit more, although I am careful not to list them as “right” every time. Just because someone invokes violence in the name of “God” doesn’t mean they are on the right. Using God as a motivator is powerful.

          And you are correct that the forces that aligned against Obama were quick to judge and quick to act. There are absolutely some very big entities on the right that are fanning the flames. And some equally large groups on the left, such as MSNBC, Daily Kos, and such. I think that we have to do our level best to calm the fringes down where we can and call out the madness whenever we see it. Obama was moved against quickly, but there were some pretty nasty signs out there against Bush before the Al Gore fiasco was even finished and we knew who was going to end up President.

      • Chris Devine says:

        One more thing, did you notice that the guy with the “Death to Obama” and “Death to Michelle and her two stupid kids” signs was in Hagerstown? A little too close to home, don’t you think? Where were those snipers on I-70 found?

        • Snipers on I-70? Check your facts before you do the leftie cause any more damage. John Allen Muhammad was a member of the Nation of Islam and more likely than anything voted Democrat as others in that faith do following their leader Louis Farrakhan himself.

          Of Malvo a quick Wiki turns up the following which isn’t disputed anywhere that I saw but repeated often: “Lee Malvo is an illegal alien from Jamaica who arrived in Miami in 2001.[2] He and his mother were apprehended by the Border Patrol in Bellingham, Washington, in December 2001. In January 2002, Malvo was released on a $1,500 bond.[2] Malvo caught up with Muhammad soon after and the two have been linked to a murder that happened that February.[2]

          Of Malvo’s release and illegal status, Michelle Malkin reported that the Seattle Immigration and Naturalization Service’s release of Malvo was “in clear violation of federal law and contrary to what the arresting Border Patrol officers intended… The law is explicit: Illegal alien stowaways are to be detained and deported without hearings. James admitted that she and her son were illegal alien stowaways. Yet, in January 2002, James was released on a $1,500 bond…”

          Try again.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Alan – quit overreacting – the rest stop where they were found is very close to where USw, Chris and I all grew up – that is all he was saying.

            • “One more thing…” meant it was in addition to what he’s already stated. That Bunghole Bob has two signs and because he’s near Whateverville, there’s a tiny possibility he’s a black Democrat Muslim shooter with a Jamaican illegal for a partner who dreams of a young black paradise franchise in Canada? Hey Robert Oppenheimer was a Jew and if Bunghole Bob is a Jew and that really isn’t his central vacuum on the bench in his garage…

              16 hours of cable pulling leads to serious Smartassery.

        • I absolutely did notice that he was from Hagerstown. My son lives in Hagerstown. How often do you get back there, or do you still live in the area. It is depressing to see how bad Hagerstown has gotten since our youth. A really run down city and the rabble is a growing population. But yes, it did hit a little too close to home to see it come from 10 miles from my hometown.

          The snipers were caught at the rest stop right out near the Washington County Line on I-70. It is about 13 miles from Hagerstown in between the scenic view and the city. If you drive through there on 70 WEST in the near future, it is the rest area that is shut down for renovations and promising to re-open in the spring.

      • Your article rails against the right having “conspiracy theories” and their idiocy for doing such while practicing the very same making assumptions just as grand? The idiocy is in the article itself. If you can state your own position while committing the very sin you condemn without fearing your audience “catching on, cluing in or buying a vowel”, what does that say about your readers and what you truly think of them?

        Awaiting Ray telling me I’m picking on you but I’m really not, just what you are presenting as noteworthy data. Come up with better stuff and I’ll laud the accomplishment. We had a coffee rant session today at a new warehouse I’m working on, all four of us were as points on the compass, well informed and ended in my changing position on certain investments. Anyone worth their salt is willing to adapt to new and better data or at the very very very least walk it through and check the results against.

  2. G. A. Rowe said

    August 27, 2009 at 1:04 am e

    Here is my last salvo for the day . . .

    I have been doing a lot of discussing with a lot of folks I know personally. Have worked with a few of them in the past, and some of their politics just don’t mix with mine. Some are actual relatives of mine, a little distant but relatives just the same.

    This is what I have found out today from those I know personally;

    The Obamatron Sheeple are starting to wake up, slowly yes, but waking up they are. And those who have come fully awake just are not happy campers, not happy campers at all.

    There are some real scary rumblings going on among these folks. They are not happy with their chosen Messiah, they are beginning to realize that he has been lying to them from the very beginning.

    I would not be concerned if they were just talking about impeachment proceedings.

    It seems that impeachment has left their vocabulary.

    These are dyed in the wool Democrats, mostly. With a smattering of an independent or two among them. Most live up in the Pacific Northwest.

    One question I have heard the most recently is; Why hasn’t Obama visited the deep south? They seem to think that if he ever does, our problems just might be solved . . .

    If that doesn’t scare you . . . Then I feel sorry for you, very sorry!

    • G.A. Rowe,

      That does scare me in the same way as the folks on the right who seem to have the idea of violence scares me. We have to get people to see that at this point violence is not the answer. I don’t agree with BO’s policies and I sure don’t think he is good for the country at this point, but I would NEVER advocate the answer of send him to the south and someone will take care of him.

      Isn’t it interesting that the two different sides of the political spectrum seem to both see the OTHER side as the one that is heading towards violence. As I stated to Chris above, I think that these hateful writers out there on both sides of the aisle are directly responsible for stoking the fires of violence. In order to gain recognition as a writer, they figure that being “sensational” is the path to fame. This is no wonder given that they see this exemplified in the media every day. The news is little more than sensationalized rhetoric these days. But the internet being unregulated has given rise to some hateful sites out there where sensationalism is the order of the day. And these hatemongers, in a bid for internet fame, are wither willing to incite violence between extreme views on either side, or are so irresponsible that they don’t even think about the consequences of what they write.

      I would be interested to hear your take on this. You read quite a bit usually and stumble upon a lot of stuff I imagine, from both sides.

      • As a member citizen of the deep south, let me be the FIRST to say that I think that the Stupidest thing anyone could do would be to “Take Care” of Mr. Obama.

        I absolutely cannot stand the man. But Killing or anything else is not only morally wrong and unjustified, considering who the VP and the SOH is, what would this benefit us?

        DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND. This is not the only reason to advocate against any sort of action. As much as I can’t stand this Government at this time. It’s the ENTIRE Government and both sides that have me pissed off. Obama is just one man. A smooth talker and dynamic personality to be sure, but only one man.

        Aside from the fact that it would be just plain marally wrong and reprehinsible for some damn fool to “take care” of him, it would also make him a martyr to rival MLK. It would put Jackass Biden in the White House also. Which would just mean that he would become a figurehead while the Congress rolled right around and over him.

        The best option for taking care of Mr. Obama is to hunker down and pray we can weather the storm until 2012. Then he can be taken care of the correct way. By VOTING his ass out on the street.

        • Esom,

          Total agreement. I am now starting to wonder if Biden might be better, which is a scary damn thought, like wanting Forrest Gump to perform brain surgery on yourself.

          • Well I’d pick the doddering mayor of Hicksville over the Chicago prohibition mayor who owes the mob not only the keys to the city but the rest of it as well.

        • Another thought, 2010, take control of the house from the Dem’s would make him a lame duck. That could happen.

      • Hey, USW

        You said “I would be interested to hear your take on this.”

        My take on this is that I am getting rather concerned about the rumblings that I am hearing. The people who frequent your site do not worry me at all – except BF(I had to say that 🙂 ) – But others are starting to sound rather angry at their Messiah, and I do mean angry.

        Here is something to really ponder – Malcom X was assassinated by one of his own people after he went public about decrying racism because his killer thought that he had lied to everyone from the beginning. That was after he took the trip to Mecca where he learned that Muslims actually had different skin colors and it wasn’t just all blacks as Elijah had originally taught him. Disenfranchisement of feelings lead to a lot of violence from otherwise nonviolent people, I know that for a fact because I have seen the results of that during my law enforcement career. It happens at all levels. JFK was killed by a former Marine who became disillusioned about his own worth in life so he decided to become famous by killing the President. Cold facts, but facts just the same.

        My life has spanned more political upheaval and stupidity than I really care to admit – JFK, BK, MLK, MX, have all been gunned down during my lifetime by sheer stupid fools thinking that they could “fix” whatever problem they blamed their victims for by eliminating them, and all it has ever done is compound the existing problem and introduce entirely new problems. I remember sitting in the Oceanside, CA USO watching the news reports of the JFK assassination and wondering just what was going to happen to my country because of it.

        This country would NEVER have elected someone with the radical political ideals of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the like had JFK not been gunned down.

        That sort of crap NEVER begets any good!

        Now you know why I am worried.

    • v. Holland says:

      You say they are regretting their decision-did they say why?

      • Hello V,

        Maybe you didn’t read my post clearly enough the first time, so here is the gist of Obamatron Sheeple’s anger . . .

        “They are not happy with their chosen Messiah, they are beginning to realize that he has been lying to them from the very beginning.”

        My family has always been of the ilk that if you lie, then you will do anything else that is not right. I come from a long line of sea merchants, loggers and swindlers. Their descendants didn’t turn out so bad as the most of us either entered the military during WW2, Korea and Viet Nam or worked very hard in the defense and logging industries. Bullheaded, yes, but really good folk nonetheless even though most are dyed-in-the-wool Democrats.

  3. Sent to me from a friend.

    So why did Barack Obama reappoint Ben Bernanke as Federal Reserve Chairman yesterday — a full four months before his appointment is due to expire? Read on to learn the grim answer.

    1. The White House’s own Office of Management and Budget broke the news on the same day of Bernanke’s reappointment – admitting spending is now officially out of control. As the Associated Press notes, “the figures show the public debt doubling and reaching three-quarters the size of the entire national economy.”
    2. As bad as the official numbers are, they are almost always proven to be wildly understated. Government expenditures are poised to go far, far, higher than they are now and if unstopped, public spending will soon exceed 60% of the gross domestic product in the United States – meaning only about 40% or less of our economy will be owned and operated by private citizens.
    3. Bernanke has exceeded all U.S. precedents for rampant money-creation. He doubled the monetary base through desperation money-creation in just the last 10 months alone. Bernanke’s reappointment telegraphs Obama plans to finance his massive government spending by wrecking the U.S. currency through much, much more money creation.
    4. Even Obama ally Warren Buffett has written recent articles warning about the coming destruction of the U.S. dollar, a shocking acknowledgement of the coming devastation of the greenback as our government becomes more and more financially desperate.
    5. The biggest manager of bond funds in the world, PIMCO stated flatly in its Emerging Markets Watch Report: “Investors should consider whether it makes sense to take advantage of any periods of U.S. dollar strength to diversify their currency exposure…..the massive amounts of U.S. dollar liquidity produced in response to the crisis” doom the U.S. currency.
    6. PIMCO’s urgent bulletin to investors continued: “While we have not yet reached the point where a new global reserve currency will arise, we are clearly seeing a loss of status for the U.S. dollar as a store of value even in the absence of a single viable alternative.”

    The upshot? Obama is reappointing Bernanke before the stock market takes another header – and he is recommitting his administration to Bernanke’s dangerous inflationary philosophy.

    Market signals for this fall are ominous, as are the basic fundamentals of the U.S. economy, which continue to worsen. Consumer spending is not coming back, employment continues to plummet, and the U.S. dollar is afflicted with fatal structural debt issues which the system cannot correct.

    Prognosis: Financially, the U.S. remains on a road with no turns.

    My thoughts, if left alone, our economy will make a slow recovery. Passing any more major spending bills such as Cap & Trade or Healthcare, then we will experience the collapse Flag has warned about. Obama clearly does not understand the US or the worlds economy. He is committed to his agenda, no matter the cost.

    • I cna only add one thing to this for Obama and the Congress’ benefit. NO MORE DAMN SPENDING!!!!!

      We now have our asses in a deep enough crack already. Don’t shove it in deeper by coming up with even more unsustainable spending.

      Whether we all want to sit in Fantasyland and sing Kumbaya and be all things to all people, the facts are that the money is not there for this bullshit to continue. Somone needs to make the hard and necessary choices like spending and budget CUTS.

      From the Movie “Full Metal Jacket”: “It’s a big Shit Sandwich and we’re all gonna have to take a bite!”

      • Well we here in Canada had caps on non-economic damages and punitive damages, which are minimal here compared to America, for at least my lifetime. Without it, the damages that do happen in an over burdened system will absolutely crush your medical establishment in litigation. I absolutely guarantee it! You have millions for a coffee accident which was the plaintiff’s fault, so then what do you think a rushed diagnosis or having outright just missed the ailment altogether in an over burdened clinic will bring about? 240 billion might just be the first quarter’s litigation.

        Comprehend where Americans get set for life in a lotto win lawsuit, we here in Canada rarely get lost future wages and the court fees in cases of gross negligence.

  4. Why I became a racist.

    KEITH OLBERMANN: I hate to intrude with the facts but ours is the highest rated cable news program viewers 35 and younger and the highest rated cable news program for all viewers not on Fixed News. And since Fixed News has since now migrated completely over to serving propaganda to tin foil hatters, conspiracy theorists, paranoids and racists it is not a news organization making this show the highest rated cable news program, period.

    For the record, on Monday, these were the top cable news programs:

    The O’Reilly Factor – 3,440,000 viewers
    Hannity – 2,937,000 viewers
    Glenn Beck – 2,810,000 viewers
    On The Record w/ Greta Van Susteren – 2,450,000 viewers
    Special Report with Bret Baier – 2,066,000 viewers
    Fox Report w/Shep Smith – 1,860,000 viewers
    Countdown w/ K. Olbermann – 1,114,000 viewers
    Larry King Live – 1,063,000 viewers

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/08/26/olbermann-says-hes-got-highest-rated-news-program-cable

    Because I choose to watch Fox news, I am a racist?
    If I attend a Tea Party, it’s because I don’t like having a black president? Nothing to do with them destroying this country with tax and spend policies?
    And over a million people like hearing this guy spew crap like that?

    Points to Ray, I have been listening to some talk radio, and there is a comparable amount of inflammatory hosts on the right, as the left. I did not stay lone enough to get their names, pretty sure I still haven’t heard Rush yet.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Consider also that MSNBC was recently moved to a digital only signal – Fox was not yet. If you have no converter then you cannot get MSNBC. That does not explain the numbers. Olbermann is just trying to make himself feel better.

      • Calling me a racist makes him feel better? I don’t think he & I have met, for him to have formed an opinion.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          I have no idea what make Keith Olbermann feel good – other than the 5 boxes of doughnuts he must eat each day to have swelled his head so much it barely fits in the shot the cameras have to take of him.

          • Right on Ray. Mush as I’d turn the channel upon hearing Hannity’s voice, Olbermann’s always keys up an image of Lewis Farrakhan raving about the White-man being used by the Jew to kill off the brightest of young black America. All the rhetoric of someone near overdosing with fewer facts presented.

    • You mean to tell me that the television industry actually survives with only 17,740,000 people watching political pundits? I wonder what they are intending to do about the other 282,260,000 who do not watch the political pundits?

      Out of a country with over 300,000,000 people, we just can’t have only 16% of them watching television, I mean with only that many how would they all be brainwashed? Hey, maybe that is why the Messiah wants a “civilian security force, just as well trained and just as well funded as the military” . . . . . Really kinda makes one go hmmmmmm?, doesn’t it?

      After all, with slightly over ten percent of people watching TV, just how is it possible that an “overwhelming amount of Americans” not only voted for the Messiah, but want him and his ilk to take care of them from the cradle to the grave as well?

      But then again, my own opinion of Keith Olberman is . . . . well . . . . just not fit to print.

      • Internet porn & Youtube accounts for the remaining population of men and Facebook the women.

  5. Ray Hawkins says:

    Sorry for the hijack:

    Barack Obama Campaign Promise No. 234: Allow five days of public comment before signing bills

    Status: Promise Broken

    (From Politifact)
    “To reduce bills rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them, Obama “will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.”

    “Credit card bill of rights passed without five-day break

    Updated: Tuesday, May 26th, 2009 | By Angie Drobnic Holan

    The camera lights still outshine sunlight at the Obama White House. In his latest violation of this promise, President Barack Obama signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act of 2009 on May 22, only two days after the bill was finalized in Congress.

    The law doesn’t take effect for a full year, so it clearly is not emergency legislation.

    The law stops credit card companies from increasing rates without notice and requires them to post their rules on the Internet, among other things. (When Obama signed it, we rated Promise No. 33, Establish a credit card bill of rights , Promise Kept.)

    The White House Web site posted a form for public comment on the bill at some point during the legislative process, though we were not able to detect an exact date. We do know that it could not have allowed five days for public comment after passage, because Obama signed the bill after two days. The last time we checked with the White House on this, they said they were still working “implementation procedures.”

    We should also note that the White House doesn’t make it easy for people to find where to leave comments on pending legislation. The Web site does not have a tab for comments or pending legislation and, when we finally discovered the undated comment area for the credit card bill through a global search of the White House site, it wasn’t clear where it was located on the site or where people should go for future comments.

    We are not documenting every time Obama breaks this promise, but we do intend to check back periodically. We still rate it Promise Broken.

    Sources:

    Thomas, Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act of 2009

    The White House Web site, Public review for H.R. 627″

    Ray’s Comments – I spoke up a while go and offered that we should ease on this transparency issue a little – after all they stated the exception of ’emergency bills’. I often tell my employees – do not make promises you cannot keep. I don’t buy the “we’re still in implementation excuse” – if it were important enough and you knew you’d be held accountable you would have figured out implementation. This is disappointing and gives people ammo they didn’t already need.

    • Ray,

      It says a lot about you that you are willing to show Obama has broken promises. I kinda wonder what that means to you? Will you continue to support him? We were all hosed on the stimulus. Do you see dis-honesty in the health bills and Obama’s statements on them?

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        LOI – I have support for him – but its growing thread bare – I will not blindly support someone just because we kinda sorta sit on the same side of the ideological fence. The health bills are a big part of that as I alluded to in the other thread pushed out today. I hope his vacation serves him well.

        • As I’ve said many times on many forums, it can be done well if he’s willing to actually do it well. That requires all this other “payback” to stop immediately. He’s got to grow a set and just cut up the credit cards and pay the bills no matter what the children are crying for but seriously I don’t think he has it in him. Right now he’s showing himself to be allergic to the truth while Howard Dean is the beacon of honesty in the party? Wow.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hi Ray,

        Yes, I agree with LOI…

        Not sure if you care, but I look at you in a different light because of this willingness.

        Best Regards to you,
        Karyn

  6. I recieved this email yesterday….I was wondering if any of you were there or have seen local news reports of what took place in Montanna? What I want to know is….is this report true?

    This was sent to me by a friend in Bozeman , MT who was there.

    Hello All,

    By now you have probably heard that President Obama came to Montana
    last Friday. However, there are many things that the major news has
    not covered. I feel that since Bill and I live here and we were at the
    airport on Friday I should share some facts with you. Whatever you
    decide to do with the information is up to you. If you chose to share
    this email with others I do ask that you DELETE my email address
    before you forward this on.

    On Wednesday, August 5th it was announced locally that the President
    would be coming here. There are many groups here that are against his
    healthcare and huge spending so those groups began talking and
    deciding on what they were going to do. The White House would not
    release ANY details other than the date.

    On about Tuesday Bill found out that they would be holding the “Town
    Hall” at the airport. (This is only because Bill knows EVERYONE at the
    airport) Our airport is actually located outside of Belgrade (tiny
    town) in a very remote location. Nothing is around there. They chose
    to use a hangar that is the most remotely located hangar. You could
    not pick a more remote location, and you can not get to it easily. It
    is totally secluded from the public.
    FYI: We have many areas in Belgrade and Bozeman which could have held
    a large amount of folks with sufficient parking.
    (gymnasiums/auditoriums). All of which have chairs and tables, and
    would not have to be SHIPPED IN!! $$$$$
    During the week, cargo by the TONS was being shipped in constantly.
    Airport employees could not believe how it just kept coming. Though it
    was our President coming several expressed how excessive it was,
    especially during a recession. $$$$$

    Late Tuesday/early Wednesday the 12th, they said that tickets would
    be handed out on Thursday 9am at two locations and the president would
    be arriving around 12:30 Friday.

    Thursday morning about 600 tickets were passed out. However, 1500 were
    printed at a Local printing shop per White House request.
    Hmmmm……900 tickets just DISAPPEARED.
    This same morning someone called into the radio from the local UPS
    branch and said that THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in
    for Obama. Montana has some of the best beef in the nation!!! And it
    would have been really wonderful to help out the local economy. Anyone
    heard of the Recession?? Just think…with all of the traveling the
    White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are
    paying for.

    On Friday Bill and I got out to the airport about 10:45am. The groups
    that wanted to protest Obama’s spending and healthcare had gotten a
    permit to protest and that area was roped off. But that was not to be.
    A large bus carrying SEIU (Service Employees International Union)
    members drove up onto the20area (illegal)and unloaded right there. It
    was quite a commotion and there were specifically 2 SEIU men trying to
    make trouble and start a fight. Police did get involved and arrested
    the one man but they said they did not have the manpower to remove the
    SEIU crowd.
    The SEIU crowd was very organized and young. About 99% were under the
    age of 30 and they were not locals! They had bullhorns and
    PROFESSIONALLY made signs. Some even wore preprinted T-shirts. Oh, and
    Planned Parenthood folks were with them…..professing abortion rights
    with their T-shirts and preprinted signs. (BTW, all these folks did
    have a permit to protest in ANOTHER area)

    Those against healthcare/spending moved away from the SEIU crowd to
    avoid confrontation. They were orderly and respectful. Even though
    SEIU kept coming over and walking through, continuing to be very
    intimidating and aggressive at the direction of the one SEIU man.

    So we had Montana folks from ALL OVER the state with their homemade
    signs and their DOGS with homemade signs. We had cowboys, nurses,
    doctors you name it. There was even a guy from Texas who had been
    driving through. He found out about the occasion, went to the store,
    made a sign, and came to protest.

    If you are wondering about the press…..Well, all of the major
    networks were over by that remote hangar I mentioned. They were
    conveniently parked on the other side of the buildings FAR away. None
    of these crowds were even visible to them. I have my doubts that t hey
    knew anything about the crowds.
    We did have some local news media around us from this state and Idaho
    . Speaking of the local media…they were invited. However, all
    questions were to be turned into the White House in advance of the
    event. Wouldn’t want anyone to have to think off the top of their
    head.

    It was very obvious that it was meant to be totally controlled by the
    White House. Everything was orchestrated down to the last detail to
    make it appear that Montana is just crazy for Obama and government
    healthcare. Even those people that talked about their insurance
    woes……..the White House called our local HRDC (Human Resource and
    Development Committee) and asked for names. Then the White House asked
    those folks to come. Smoke and mirrors…EVERYTHING was
    staged!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am very dismayed about what I learned about our current White House.
    The amount of control and manipulation was unbelievable. I felt I was
    not living in the United States of America , more like the USSR !! I
    was physically nauseous. Bill and I have been around when Presidents
    or Heads of State visit. It has NEVER been like this. I am truly very
    frightened for our country. America needs your prayers and your
    voices. If you care about our country please get involved. Know the
    issues. And let Congress hear your voices again and again!! If they
    are willing to put forth so much effort to BULLY a small town one can
    only imagine what is going on in Washington DC . Scary!!

    • Amazed 1,

      I think this was posted by someone else and discussed, maybe on an open mic.
      What I remember, there is some truth and some false statements. Its likely
      a mass mailer put together to dis-credit Obama. Someone found the video of the event, and the Pro crowd did have high quality signs compared to the home made displayed by the protesters.

      • Thanks LOI….I must have missed that one. Since I do not get alot of mass mailings and junk I was a little skeptical when a friend sent this plus I have been so busy with a remodel that I have not got to do the this site much justice in the reading dept. Thanks, have a wonderful day.

        • Amazed:

          I have seen two copies of the letter that were identical but with different peoples names in them, both the husband and wife’s names were different.

          The letter may describe what transpired between the two groups in the “free speech zones”.

          I posted the pictures and video of the two groups along with a lefty blog description.
          Look to last weeks posts.

          Cyndi P I believe asked about the letter as she got it from a friend.

          The stuff about lobsters, etc has not been reported anywhere else that I can find. But I am not done digging either.

  7. PeterB in Indianapolis says:
    • v. Holland says:

      Let’s see they either borrow money from the broke treasury or they collect fees from other banks, which will either weaken them more or cause strong bank to be weak. Lord help us!

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      “In May the FDIC voted to impose a $5.6 billion special fee the industry has to pay in the third quarter. It also gave itself the right to charge two more special fees in coming quarters.”

      This is a direct quote from the article. Notice the highly curious wording “gave itself the right to…”

      How the HELL does a government agency GIVE ITSELF RIGHTS???

      That is a REALLY NEAT TRICK

      Harry Houdini would be proud. Thomas Jefferson would throw up.

      • Peter,

        I have heard the IRS is increasing its number of employee’s. Does this mean they may ramp up collections, maybe even review past years
        to find any who did not pay their fair share of taxes?

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          Not the new KINDER, GENTLER IRS! They would NEVER do such a thing 🙂

          And by the way, if you use your “real name” and post on this site or Fox News prepare to be audited for the last 7 years worth of taxes…

          That is all.

          🙂

          • Damnitall, I had my name legally changed to LOI just last week! Can I have a do over? (probably a special tax on that)

          • I can attest to that. After starting this site last year I was audited for the first time in my life.

            • I can attest to that as well. After some rather pointed emails to Levin and Stabenow regarding their failure to support money for the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, we got a “random” audit. They expected us to go back 20 years and prove we had the equity in the companies that we said we had. This is after 20 years of accepting the previous returns. They are trying to add carryover losses back in as earned income with taxes due. The first go-round has them wanting 350K. We’re still in the middle of it. There is no such thing as a “random” tax audit!

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                Which simply further proves that taxation is not the way that the government funds itself, it is merely theft from the people and a means of punishing the people.

              • I won’t go into detail of my experience, except to say, we got a lawyer to assist our accountant, and fought back. Otherwise, we might have been out of business.

              • Got a lawyer too LOI, I know the fed is sneaky and cheats!

          • Its good to be a Canadian… bring on the IRS.

  8. From theBobo

    While until then various taxes were levied in support of specific government initiatives (e.g. the Revenue Act of 1861 levied a 3% tax on high-wealth citizens to fund the Civil War), these would be repealed upon completion of the initiative. The 16th Amendment for the first time institutionalized the government’s right to collect income taxes. The rate was innocently set at 1% of incomes above $3,000 and 6% surcharge for incomes above $500K.

    The federal income tax quickly became eye candy for politicians looking for funding to support their favorite programs. And the government as a whole saw it as a cash machine from which funding for social programs, wars, and other initiates could be secured. To no surprise, by 1918, five years after the 16th Amendment was ratified, the top income tax rate skyrocketed to 77%. During his presidency Franklin D. Roosevelt even tried (but failed) to impose a 100% rate on incomes above $25,000 to fund the war effort. Through the 1960’s the marginal tax bracket stayed at 90% and it wasn’t until the administration of Ronald Reagan which reduced the top rates to 28%.

    http://nakedliberty.com/2009/08/know-your-america-the-16th-amendment/

    • That’s whty i said yesterday the the 16th amendment is the biggest crime ever commited against the american people.

  9. In front of a town hall meeting the other day, scoffing at the notion of health care rationing. In answer to a question by one of his supporters, Obama made it perfectly clear that he “was not in support of rationing.”

    I realized that when we implement Obamacare, if we have the same number of doctors (it takes over 8 years to train new ones), the same number of MRI machines and CAT scans, equal number of surgeons, and equal number of hospital beds AND we add 47 million people into our current system, things are going to drastically change.

    Rahm Emmanuel, Obama’s Chief of Staff. Most of us are not familiar, however, with his brother, a guy named Ezekiel Emmanuel, Barack Obama’s new “Special Advisor for Health Policy”. He was put into place to redesign our health care system. Ezekiel recently co-authored an article titled “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions.”

    Ezekiel and his co-authors are proposing that health care will be allocated (rationed) to those in need in an orderly way. They believe it’s best to treat people by way of something called the “Complete Lives System.”

    This system incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value.

    Hmm…Youngest first? Congressmen everywhere are telling us that seniors won’t suffer…

    Under this system, patients would receive scarce care according to the graph shown below. I wouldn’t want to be a 6 month old in this system. I also wouldn’t want to be 60.

    http://awakentheelephants.com/blog/2009/08/12/live-or-die-check-the-graph/

  10. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    I hope you all noticed from some of the discussion above that the best way for government to actually work is that:

    A) We must all be convinced that one side or the other (or both)are about to do something which would cause the government to be unstable.

    B) We must greatly fear this impending instability.

    C) We must be convinced that those who are threatening to cause this instability are our enemies (even if they are our friends).

    D) We must be willing to act to protect ourselves (and thereby protect the government) against our friends… I mean.. our enemies… I mean… Damn! I am confused.

    Once the government accomplishes all 4 of these goals, it wins.

  11. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Why does the government create 2 sides on every issue and then attept to capture all of the people that are “in the middle”?

    Simple! The government understands the game of chess. If you control the 4 squares in the exact center of the board, you control the entire board.

  12. Humor time,

    A Japanese company and an American company decided
    to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and
    hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day the
    Japanese won by a mile.

    Afterward, the American team decided the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found. An investigative team made up of senior management was formed to look into the matter and recommend appropriate action.

    Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and one person rowing. So American management hired a consulting company and paid them an incredible sum of money to come up with a solution.

    After six months of research, the consultant company advised that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. So the American team acted. To prevent losing to the Japanese again the following year, the rowing team’s management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

    They also implemented a new performance system that
    would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder.
    It was called the Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners
    and free pens for the rower. Even new paddles and medical benefit
    incentives were promised for a win, in order to give the rower empowerment and
    enrichments through this quality program.

    The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
    Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance,
    halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles and canceled all
    capital investments for new equipment.

    The money saved was distributed to the senior executives as bonuses for a job well done.

  13. BRAIN CRAMPS

    (On September 17, 1994, Alabama’s Heather Whitestone was selected as Miss America 1995.)
    Question: If you could live forever, would you and Why?

    Answer: “I would not live forever, because we should not
    live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever,
    then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever,
    which is why I would not live forever,”

    –Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest

    “““““““““““““““““

    “Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids
    all over the world, I can’t help but cry. I mean I’d love
    to be skinny like that, but not with all those flies and
    death and stuff.”
    –Mariah Carey

    ““““““

    “Smoking kills. If you’re killed, you’ve lost a very
    important part of your life,”
    –Brooke Shields, during an interview to become
    Spokesperson for federal anti-smoking campaign .

    ““““““““““““““““““““““““`

    “I’ve never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body,”
    –Winston Bennett,
    University of Kentucky basketball forward

    ““““““““““““““““““““““`

    “Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the
    lowest crime rates in the country,”
    –Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC

    ( So nice to live in a gun free city)

    ““““““““““““““`

    “I’m not going to have some reporters pawing through
    our papers. We are the president.”
    –Hillary Clinton commenting on the release of
    subpoenaed documents.

    ““““““““““““““““““““““““““

    “That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death
    by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,”
    –A congressional candidate in Texas

    ““““““““““““““

    “Half this game is ninety percent mental.”
    –Philadelphia Phillies manager, Danny Ozark

    “““““““““““““““““

    “It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s
    the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.”
    –Al Gore, Vice President

    (Smart guy, maybe he’ll make a movie and explain that in detail)

    “““““““““`

    “I love California . I practically grew up in Phoenix ”
    –Dan Quayle

    “““““

    “We’ve got to pause and ask ourselves: How much

    clean air do we need?” –Lee Iacocca

    “““““`

    “The word “genius” isn’t applicable in football. A
    genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.” –
    –Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback & sports analyst.

    ““““““““““““““““““““““

    “We don’t necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude
    certain types of people.”
    –Colonel Gerald Wellman, ROTC Instrutor .

    ““““““““““““““““`

    “If we don’t succeed, we run the risk of failure.”
    –Bill Clinton, President

    “““““““““

    “We are ready for an unforeseen event that
    may or may not occur.”
    –Al Gore, VP

    ““““““““

    “Traditionally, most of Australia ‘s imports come
    from overseas.”
    –Keppel Enderbery

    ““““““““

    “Your food stamps will be stopped effective
    March 1992 because we received notice that
    you passed away. May God bless you. You may
    reapply if there is a change in your circumstances.”
    –Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

    ““““““““““““““““““““““

    “If somebody has a bad heart, they can plug this jack
    in at night as they go to bed and it will monitor their
    heart throughout the night. And the next morning, when
    they wake up dead, there’ll be a record.”
    –Mark S. Fowler, FCC Chairman
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  14. Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, “If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.”

    In response to Bill’s comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics (and I just love this part):

    1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

    2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

    3. Occasionally, your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all
    of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

    4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause you car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

    5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive — but would run on only five percent of the roads.

    6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single “This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation” warning light.

    7. The airbag system would ask, “Are you sure?” before deploying.

    8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lift the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

    9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

    10. You’d have to press the “Start” button to turn the engine off.

  15. Dear Tide:

    I’m writing to say what an excellent product you have! I’ve used it all
    through my married life, as my Mom always told me it was the best. Now
    that I am in my fifties, I find it even better! In fact, about a month
    ago, I spilled some red wine on my new white blouse. My inconsiderate
    and uncaring husband started to berate me about how clumsy I was, and
    generally started becoming a pain in the ass.

    One thing led to another and somehow I ended up with a lot of his blood
    on my white blouse. I tried to get the stain out using a bargain
    detergent, but it just wouldn’t come out. After a quick trip to the
    supermarket, I purchased a bottle of liquid Tide with bleach
    alternative, and to my surprise and satisfaction, all of the stains came
    out!

    In fact, the stains came out so well the Detectives who came by
    yesterday told me that the DNA tests on my blouse were negative. Then my
    attorney called and said that I would no longer be considered a suspect
    in the disappearance of my husband. What a relief!

    Going through menopause is bad enough without being a murder suspect!

    I thank you, once again, for having such a great product.

    Well, gotta go. I have to write a letter to the Hefty bag people.

  16. Hello all, I just thought that I would throw this into the works for those spendthrift Liberals out there to ponder. I received this in an e-mail about an hour ago – “all the names have been removed to protect the innocent” . . . 😉

    Subject: Fwd: FW: Cost of Obama’s Date Mis-calculated

    Note that there was NO business-related purpose to this trip. Also, a C-37 was used to fly First Wife and the kids to Paris and London for a shopping trip.

    From a former Air Force Colonel….
    Subject: The Date
    First, let me say that I’ve moved three presidents up to now and I’ve seen incredible waste. But, the “new” guy really takes the cake. I don’t have an issue with the President promising his wife dinner and a show or that he even takes his wife out.
    But, when I saw the news say that the date cost $24,000, here’s what you DON’T know.
    Three days before “dinner” a C-17 flew Marines and the helicopter maintenance equipment to JFK Airport .
    The day before “dinner” I flew the USSS and the motorcade to JFK Airport
    Our crew of 5 spent two days and nights at the Hilton in Times Square. My hotel bill: $621.66 plus $64 a day in per diem. The USSS guys were at a different Hilton in NYC, so figure that cost another $14,000 (or so) plus per diem. The Marines had to have cost as much and were there four days, so figure another $55,000 plus per diem (for 44 Marines).
    We were supposed to fly the motorcade back and go home, but the Air Force was so short C-17’s that we were re-tasked to take the motorcade back, return to JFK and take the helicopter back to Quantico .
    When we got back to JFK, while the pilot was turning the plane around to park, he noticed a rotor blade sticking out of the hangar where the helicopter was parked and informed me that either it wasn’t ready to transport or it was flying home. After shutting down I walked over to the hangar and to my surprise I find FIVE helicopters, not ONE.
    We’re obviously not transporting five big helicopters. I went and talked to the Marines guarding the “fleet” and found that they were flying all five helicopters home and we were only transporting the Marines and the maintenance equipment. After talking to the Marine(s) in charge, I was told the White House requested FIVE helicopters. The Marines told me they spent all morning trying to figure out how much it cost them to come and said they figured it cost them $140,000 to stay there.
    I don’t know where they came up with that, $24,000 figure; the trip’s total had to be about$1,000,000.
    We heard that the President didn’t use Air Force One (the 747) so I asked if he came in on one of the 757’s. I was told that he came in on THREE Air Force Lear jets.
    So, date night consisted of: 2 C-17’s flying three missions, 3 Lear jets, 5 Helicopters, Presidential Motorcade, 44 Marines, more than 20 USSS personnel on our plane.
    Who knows what it cost the NYPD and NY Port Authority (at the airport) in overtime.
    These are the same people that chastised the automobile CEO’s for using their aircraft. It further proves that the media only use the facts that make the President look good and hide any facts that will detract from his persona.. Is this the ‘change’ we expected?
    Talk with friends and those who are not blinded by charisma. Many folks I know who voted for Obama are very disappointed and sorry they did so.
    The Emperor’s clothes on a grand scale. “Transparency”? Remember, 2010 is just around the corner. All we have to do is survive long enough… and vote!

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      G.A.

      I submit to you that in this case voting MAY be the right thing to do, because the goal of voting is to gum up the works so that the government is unable to DO ANYTHING.

      If that is truly the goal of voting in this case, then sure, go for it.

      If you are voting with the idea that it will get the government to actually DO SOMETHING YOU WISH IT WOULD DO, then no, don’t vote.

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