More Public Education Indoctrination?

avatar-flagI began tonight writing about the radical appointments that the President has made in the form of his cadre of “Czars”. I wanted to answer Ray in  his request for some proof that they are radical. As I researched and read for hours I realized quickly that this was going to take more than a single night to write. So that will be coming tomorrow and then the First part of the health care series will be coming on Sunday night (Monday morning to all of you), with a guest commentary in between. Being that it is 3:30 as I start writing tonight, I decided that I would find something to offer that didn’t require me to do a whole lot of research but that would still be relevant and generate discussion. Of course everyone is free to again work a second day on any discussions that were happening on the Open Mic thread. I will again post a new thread where folks can copy a conversation over and continue the discussions, similar to last week.

So what I decided to offer for this evening is an article from Fox News that was briefly mentioned in the Open Mic discussions. I know that D13 was attending some stuff last night as well and the Texas schools discussed how to deal with a program like this being pushed out of the White House. I look forward to what he learned. Without any further set-up from me:

Critics Decry Obama’s ‘Indoctrination’ Plan for Students

by Joshua Rhett Miller at Fox News

A suggested lesson plan that calls on school kids to write letters to themselves about what they can do to help President Obama is troubling some education experts, who say it establishes the president as a “superintendent in chief” and may indoctrinate children to support him politically.

Obamas at schoolBut the White House says the speech is merely “designed to encourage kids to stay in school.”

Obama will deliver a national address directly to students on Tuesday, which will be the first day of classes for many children across the country. The address, to be broadcast live on the White House’s Web site, was announced in a letter to school principals last week by Education Secretary Arne Duncan.

Obama intends to “challenge students to work hard, set educational goals and take responsibility for their learning,” Duncan wrote. Obama will also call for a “shared responsibility” among students, parents and educators to maximize learning potential.

“The goal of the speech and the lesson plans is to challenge students to work hard in school, to not drop out and to meet short-term goals like behaving in class, doing their homework and goals that parents and teachers alike can agree are noble,” Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, told “This isn’t a policy speech. This is a speech designed to encourage kids to stay in school.”

But in advance of the address, the Department of Education has offered educators “classroom activities” to coincide with Obama’s message.

public-educationStudents in grades pre-K-6, for example, are encouraged to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals.”

Teachers are also given guidance to tell students to “build background knowledge about the president of the United States by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama.”

During the speech, “teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful.”

For grades 7-12, the Department of Education suggests teachers prepare by excerpting quotes from Obama’s speeches on education for their students to contemplate — and ask as questions such as “Why does President Obama want to speak with us today? How will he inspire us? How will he challenge us?”

Activities suggested for after the speech include asking students “what resonated with you from President Obama’s speech? What lines/phrase do you remember?”

Obama announced his intention to deliver the address to students during an interview with Damon Weaver, a middle school student from Florida who gained a following of his own last year on the campaign trail for his interviews of high-profile figures.

The Department of Education is using the president’s address to kick off a video contest titled, “I Am What I Learn,” in which students are invited to submit videos of up to two minutes on the importance of education in achieving their dreams.

Obama’s critics say the lesson plans and the president’s calls for a “supportive community” are troubling on many levels.

Bart Education Secretary“In general, I don’t think there’s a problem if the president uses the bully pulpit to tell kids to work hard, study hard and things like that. But there are some troubling hints in this, both educationally and politically,” said Neal McCluskey, associate director of Cato Institute’s Center for Educational Freedom.

Among the concerns, McCluskey said, is the notion that students who do not support Obama or his educational policies will begin the school year “behind the eight ball,” or somehow academically trailing their peers.

“It essentially tries to force kids to say the president and the presidency is inspiring, and that’s very problematic,” McCluskey said. “It’s very concerning that you would do that.”

Parents of public school students would also have to pay for that “indoctrination,” regardless of their political background, he said.

Education Cartoon“That’s the fundamental problem. They could easily be funding the indoctrination of their children.”

Meanwhile, Patti Kinney, a former teacher and middle school principal with 33 years of teaching experience, said she found nothing wrong with the lesson plans.

“They’re designed as a menu, so it doesn’t mean you have to do everything,” said Kinney, associate director for middle level services at the National Association of Secondary School Principals. “You have to pick and choose which will work best for your class.”

Kinney said suggestions like asking students to recall “other historic moments” when the president spoke to the nation and to hone their listening skills by taking notes during the address are useful.

“You’re asking them to listen to particular things and to take notes,” she said. “That’s a good teaching strategy to help students develop their listening skills.”

Asked if she was troubled by the suggestion that students write letters “about what they can do to help the president,” Kinney said she would have reworked that sentence.

“I would have probably reworded that to say goals the president is suggesting,” Kinney said. “But again, you call upon teacher expertise to do what’s appropriate with their students … I did not see anything that I saw as problematic.”

Schools Economy WreckedFrederick Hess, director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, said the suggested lesson plans cross the line between instruction and advocacy.

“I don’t think it’s appropriate for teachers to ask students to help promote the president’s preferred school reforms and policies,” Hess said. “It very much starts to set up the president as a superintendent in chief.”

Amid the debate on the federal government’s level of involvement on issues like health care and others, Hess said, “There’s a lot of people” on both sides of the political spectrum who will rightfully be concerned with the president’s call to action.

“It shows exactly what the problem is,” he said. “This is going to open the door to all kinds of concerns.”

After reading the Department of Education lesson plans for the speech, McCluskey said he noticed several passages that should set off “alarm bells,” including language that attempts to “glorify President Obama” in the minds of young students.

“It could be a blatantly political move,” he said. “Nobody knows for sure, but it gives that impression.”

McCluskey also noted that the lesson plans for young students contain suggestions to write letters to themselves on how they can help the president, but that suggestion is not in the lesson plan for middle and high schoolers — perhaps due to the likelihood of increased political ties at that age.

“You don’t want to see this coming from the president,” McCluskey said. “You don’t want to see this coming from the federal government.”

This was the entire article, but the original was posted here:  Critics Decry Obama’s ‘Indoctrination’ Plan for Students – Political News –

indoctrination-cneter-aheadYou know, yesterday I offered up an article about how some college Republicans are compiling a list of liberal professors who have treated students who did not agree with them politically badly. We have all discussed in the past the indoctrination centers that the schools have become, creating good little citizens that don’t use critical thought and especially don’t question the authority of the United States government in any way, shape, or form (unless that authority is a GOP authority, then question it harshly). It really does frighten me to think that the pressure already exerted on young adults in our colleges could also be now placed on our children.

This move by Obama might be nothing more than the White House claims (I doubt it but perhaps). But even then, the directives being sent out to schools set up a system where liberal educators feel empowered to allow their politics to enter the classroom. Fostering the discussions that were laid out above clearly allows for a political agenda to be served. At the very least, it will identify those students who are conservative and put them in jeopardy should they belong to a teacher that is politically active on the left. Given the number of videos we saw over the last year where liberal teachers had their students performing pro-Obama songs and plays, I think it is safe to say that we already have some teachers crossing the line.

teachers-for-obamaI will say that the more I study, and the more I read, and the more I think, the more worried I become. I am not paranoid, as GG would like to believe. I am a realist. When I see certain things I make certain deductions based on logic and reason. When I have a President who 5 days before the election made the statement, “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming America,” alarm bells go off. When that is followed up by the radical czars he is appointing and the radically different approach he is taking with legislation at light speed and more stealth legislation than I have ever seen from any administration on either side, The alarm bells get louder. They have my attention now. And I have concerns. Because there are a lot of signs that point to a President that is presiding over something that is far more a fundamental transformation than most Americans might have thought back on the last day of October.

As I said, this move by Obama might be nothing more than a national plan to keep kid in school. But it might be more than that. It might be the first shot fired in a plan that seems eerily similar to the ways that a Democratically elected Hugo Chavez or widely popular “man of the people” Adolf Hitler became dictators and fundamentally transformed their countries too. Do I want to believe this to be the truth. No. I certainly do not. Am I a whack job conservative that is merely paranoid? I am sure GG will say yes. I don’t know how it will be received by everyone else. I am not, nor have I ever been, a conspiracy theorist. But my threat level has risen to the level of “concerned”. Call me crazy if you want to. If I am wrong, great. No one will be happier than me. But if my gut and instinct are right…. we are in deep doo doo. Maybe not Adolf Hitler doo doo, but bad enough. Bad enough to see the world GG wants to see come to light. That would mean the end of America as we know it and the beginning of our complete failure as a country. And I don’t have a clue how to stop that.


  1. GreaterGoodscs says:

    You wrote: “that don’t use critical thought and especially don’t question the authority of the United States government in any way, shape, or form (unless that authority is a GOP authority, then question it harshly).”

    USW, that is a contradiction (at least one with an agenda). I suspect more is being made out of this than is there; it would take a great number of people with the same ideology to working in concert to have something like an indoctrination program to work (Moa’s cultural revolution was enforced harshly, not through school kids). I do see it as paranoia but selective paranoia; if it comes from Obama, it must be bad.

    Sort of like if it comes from me it must be bad. GG is a socialist; therefore Obama is one to (or vice versa).

    You wrote: “Bad enough to see the world GG wants to see come to light.”

    You had mentioned you were looking for possible solutions on this site (through debate, etc.). You posted a piece on socialism with demeaning pictures, etc. I understand your minions expect nothing less from you, but isn’t that (constant references to how bad socialism is, etc.) the same form of propaganda you claim Obama and the white house “might be” up to here.

    And why all the concern for GOP authority (1st quote above) if you truly discount that party as well?

    I think you should all try not viewing anything regarding socialism as evil for a few days in an effort to be more objective. You can come to the same conclusion about what you think of it, but to demonize it from jump street doesn’t suggest you’re open to anything more than a mob mentality (no matter how eloquent it is presented).

    USW, you are a pretty good writer, but you tinge all you have to say with such an obvious slant (either for or against something), it reduces the ultimate effectiveness (to the world at large); a crowd pleaser in here isn’t the same thing. That is not meant as a knock in any way shape or form. It is constructive criticism.


    • GG….the speech is already out what he is going to say. It is full of political reference. References to global warming, references to national health care, references to listening to your local representatives and teachers complete with a study guideline. It is more than a speech to stay in school.

      Today, there are 22 of us going to the Fort Worth Public School Administration Building and demand equal time for broadcasting to the students after the President. If we are refused, we have three attorneys working pro-bono that will file a law suit to seek immediate injunction against the airing without the opportunity to address the students. If that fails, then we are prepared to file state and federal law suits against the school district, the school board, and the Superintendent. We are also prepared to file personal law suits against the individual teachers as well.

      We are taxpayers. Obama works for us. The school system works for us and the teachers work for us.

      So, if you support the greater good, then do you support our right to address the students as well on the same subjects and either agree with the POTUS or disagree with the POTUS,,,,or is your greater good theory only for the greater good of the left?

      I think this is a fair question. D13

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        Very fair question and you certainly do have the right to protest whatever anyone says. I’d go one further and say you have the right to keep your kids home from school if you feel that strongly about the issue.

        Global warming, etc. … if you believe the opposite of what the president proposes, why are you against having your children hear that opinion? I’m sure they hear your side of the story at home as well. What I’m suggesting is why not let the kids decide for themselves?

        • GG… I have no kids at home. And I have absolutely no problem with the children hearing both sides as long as both sides are presented. Read the speech. I got it from CNN. We, as taxpayers, wish to present the other side of the story, complete with backup documentation which I doubt the POTUS will use. I doubt he has back up.

          One other thing for you. I am challenging your claim that the greater good theory is the mainstream. So we are doing the following. We are conducting our own polls of the following:

          At the UAW plant in Arlington, Texas, we have secured permission on lunch hours to poll 50 union workers, 25 supervisors.

          At LMRA (Lockheed in Fort Worth), we have secured permission on lunch hours to talk to 25 union workers and 5 supervisors.

          We have already interviewed 22 of 50 house wives whom do not work. age range of 21-56.

          We have already interviewed 12 of 20 policemen.

          We are not interviewing independent business men and corporate executives. We know what their answers will most likely be.

          We have secured permission to interview 50 students from each of four local colleges and we are limiting our interviews to political science majors for reason. TCU, SMU, TWU, and NTSU.

          We have secured permission to interview 6 professors. That is all that has indicated an interest in talking to us.

          We are not interviewing “on the street”. We are controlling the interview purposely to slant it towards the working person and student with one cross section of non working housewives.

          Any other suggestions that you would like to add? This is your chance.

          Oh, the questions are relevant. We are using your term, the greater good. We are asking questions concerning health care, wage and price controls, global warming, cap and trade, progressive tax system, and inheritance tax issues. We are offering to explanation as to what they mean just asking if hey support them or not. And, we took YOUR definition of greater good and put it in our questionnaire. I took your definition right off this blog.

          I will post the results here when complete. I expect completion by open mike time on Sept 15.

          Our questions are limited to: Do you understand what these choices are and what they mean? Do you understand the definition of greater good? Do you understand the definition of capitalism, socialism, communism, and fascism? We are not asking them to define it….only if they understand it. We are asking direct questions concerning the entitlement programs and if they support same and we identified the entitlement programs. We are asking questions pertaining to their views on illegal immigration and minimum wages.

          All questions are totally objective and not slanted in any manner to the right or left with the exception of your definition of greater good. We asked it exactly as you defined it in this blog unless you wish to change your definition. If so, define it now and I will change it to fit what you ask.

          If there is a class of person you wish me to include, I will do so. I have made an attempt to ask what I consider to be common folks. Workers, Housewives, union personnel, etc.


          • damn…gotta proof read better…..”We are offering to explanation as to what they mean just asking if hey support them or not.” Please change the word to…it should be no…and add t to hey. I have not had my Dr. Pepper yet.

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            No suggestions, but you are about me thinking socialism is the main stream. Quite to the contrary. In America socialists are as on the fringe as libertarians, no doubt. I don’t see what I want happening in my lifetime (make no mistake). I suspect this world will blow itself up long before a greater good is ever reached and I don’t believe socialism could (or would) stop that from happening at all. I’m interested in a greater equality for all that are here now (or the future) and for me socialism seems to offer that more so than what we currently have. I’ve been living under this system my entire life and don’t think it is evil for a second. I think people with the means to do so take advantage of those without the means. They may (or may not) be evil, but that isn’t the point. The point is too many suffer a great disadvantage that I believe (just me) would and should be lessened through a society more concerned with equality.

            • Hmmmm…it is a departure from what I thought you espoused. Interesting.

              • Richmond Spitfire says:

                Agreed…GG…I’m listening again.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                Thanks, guys. I really am not the boogey man I might’ve come off as the last few days (but I was responding to some nasty stuff). I think socialism and capitalism probably have to be incorporated long before one or the other could ever win out one way or the other. Medicaid, I think, works (for the most part). I can’t imagine what so many would do without it.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            D13 – you’re sampling seems horrifically flawed. I would also suggest you use a 5 point Likert scale or something similar.

            How do you plan to eliminate bias?

            What variables are you considering? Eliminating?

            How do you plan to eliminate your own bias? (FYI – statements like “We are not interviewing independent business men and corporate executives. We know what their answers will most likely be.” – this tells me you are intentionally injecting your own bias – if this is your approach I have to consider any result you publish inherently unreliable and therefore rejected).

            How can I be certain you are conducting a psychometrically sound survey?

            • Very simple, Ray. I am not proposing this as a poll for any reason other than to see what people say and feel. I am not going for government grants or money. This is at our own expense. Everyone on here wants facts. I am about to do that. Actually, I am not interjecting bias anywhere…..Most that are on the left would say that including business men and executives would skew the results. The reality is that most, if not all, would think like me and, therefore be biased. I am not a professional poll person nor do I care about variables. Reject it if you want, that is fine. We are asking common people and the questions are very simple and straight forward. With USW’s permission, I will post them but did not want to stray from the regular subject matter.

              I do not want to eliminate bias. I hope that the bias comes out. Are you saying that the union people will be biased one way or the other? I suspect so and hope to see and point out that bias. If it shows, as I suspect it will, then all the arguments of “mainstream” are shot down.

              I suspect there will be many philosopher types that will reject the survey and that, quite frankly, is what I expect. Especially on this blog. However, I am doing something and I really would like to challenge the “greater good” side of things. I do not think that is mainstream but the questions are not slanted in a way to get anyone to say what I want them to say. We shall see what happens.

              Have a great day.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                D13 – let’s back up a second – here is your response to GG:

                “One other thing for you. I am challenging your claim that the greater good theory is the mainstream. So we are doing the following. We are conducting our own polls of the following:”

                So – what theory are you testing in your poll or survey?

                Purposefully injecting or desiring bias in a survey or poll renders the results completely and utterly worthless.

                If I go to the NASCAR race this weekend in Atlanta and try to do a poll on ‘who likes beer’ what would I expect the results to be?

                Geographically limiting your coverage will in no way speak to what is or is not mainstream – it will only potentially tell you what is mainstream for the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

                I could take your same survey and randomly canvass Chester County, PA and then travel 30 miles East and do the same in Philadelphia – I will expect variance in results based solely on concentrations of political affiliation.

                Its the same reason I’d expect different polling numbers between Daily Kos and Heritage

                This has nothing to do with philosophy – it has everything to do with methodology.

                I’m sorry to poo on your approach – but – it is quite frankly a crappy approach that will not adequately answer the underlying theory you are testing. Try a crisper population and limit your scope.

              • Pooing allowed, Ray. I have no problem with it.

                Ray asks: So – what theory are you testing in your poll or survey?

                D13 says: GG’s definition of greater good.

                Ray claims: Geographically limiting your coverage will in no way speak to what is or is not mainstream – it will only potentially tell you what is mainstream for the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

                D13 says: Yep, that is all it means. However, D13 believes that a UAW member in Arlington, Texas is no different than a UAW member in Flint, Michigan. D13 further believes that an International Association of Machinist union member in Fort Worth is no different than one in Connecticut LMRA plant.

                Ray says: I will expect variance in results based solely on concentrations of political affiliation.

                D13 agrees: Yes sir, I expect the same. Hence, the decision to exclude what I know to be the reaction to the business sector in DFW. VERY conservative. I already know this and, therefore, excluded them.

                Our cross section also includes all races…at least those in this area.

                Ray, this is not scientific nor is it meant to be flawless. It is as flawless as I can make it. I am simply asking peoples opinion and get answers.

                even when properly conducted polls are taken, you still cannot be sure the truth is said either. I simple am trying to find out what people in the DFW area think and relate it to those that live outside this area…but I have purposely and admittedly included what I consider to be the more left leaning. This should prove interesting.

                But, no offense taken, my friend. Give what due you wish. After all, it is my survey and, I think, be beneficial to me to see if I am on the outside here.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                D13 – fair enough – I will not argue survey methodology with you – I spend more than enough of my academic hours doing that with other folks.

                Just know your DFW and Flint UAW worker may have some very different feelings about things than what you may expect. 😉

                Just know that not all businesspeople in DFW are to the right / far right – I’ve had several as clients. 😉

                Best of luck – when you report on your results please ensure you clarify what the results do not tell us.


      • D13,

        I am very encouraged to read what you are undertaking today . . . and I pray that your example encourages the same stand by those in other states who are frustrated by the current one-sided public and media “debate.”

        You represent America at its best.

        Maybe someone in the MSM will break ranks and give positive and public voice to your efforts.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Hi D13…

        I’m having a problem locating the speech…Looking at right now…

        Do you have a link.

        I did find the document that outlines the teacher exercises.


        • Hmmm…link…..I got it off CNN last night. it was also on MSNBC on talking points….However, let me take a gander and see if I can find it again. I should have documented that better but I (sigh) failed….shoot me.

        • Richmond…it is gone. I cannot find it on CNN but looking elsewhere.

    • CWO2USNRet says:


      “to demonize it from jump street doesn’t suggest you’re open to anything more than a mob mentality.” Most of us here are not demonizing from jump street. My strong anti-socialist, pro-capitalist position is the result of decades of life, experience, study, and introspection. Like many here who went to college in the 70s, I started out leaning left. Since then I’ve learned many things, including that history shows socialism hasn’t worked nearly as well as capitalism at raising everybody’s standard of living. The American experiment has been the biggest boon to mankind ever seen.

      Enjoy this wonderful day,

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        I too went to college in the 70’s and was also very liberal. 10 years ago I did a 180 and supported Bush prior to 9-11 (because I felt Clinton and his party were terrible). I voted for Bush twice (ignoring my social principals for national defense). By year 6 of Bush I’d had it with the Reps. I did NOT vote for Obama. I voted for Ralph Nader (ducking thrown objects here). I will continue to vote for Nader because I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils (i see them as both useless; one slightly more criminal than the other).

        I think capitalism has seen it’s better days and that the global economy has quickened its demise (as it relates to the greater masses–the average Jill and Joe trying to make ends meet). It isn’t evil (see above answer for someone else), but for me (as I see it) the gaps are widening and will soon be intolerable.

        • Sorry but the greatest advances are indeed drawn from the well of capitalism. The best labs on any campus too are the direct benefactors of capitalism be that from Matsushida, Monsanto or Merck.

        • Kristian Stout says:

          As Jerry Garcia once said “choosing the lesser of 2 evils is still chosing evil”. BF, while I understand and appreciate the idea, like US I can’t just do nothing. That goes against the grain for me.

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        And you enjoy this wonderful day, too. It is gorgeous out this morning …

    • GG,
      My opposition to this has little to do with the politics, but with the precedent it is setting. Having lived through the Cuban Revolution, perhaps I have a more paranoid flavor to my opinion. What I object to is the fact that the vetting process of our educational system was totally bypassed. My understanding is that this presentation did not go through the normal vetting process, which is to go through school boards, etc. It went directly from the NEA to the principals. There was no opportunity for comment, etc. Yes, this message seems benign and inspiring, but what’s to stop future elected officials, say one you are totally opposed to, from doing the same thing. I’m sure there would be an outcry should a president use the process to inspire military service to the country.

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        Military service is a bad example (for me). I’m for a mandatory draft, but I get your point. The issue, I think, is that there will always be something to poke holes in when it comes from the white house (and with good reason, no doubt). They don’t do things from there without a reason. I happen to think it is a distraction because he’s falling in the polls right now (not getting ANYTHING done), but that’s just what I think.

        • ‘I happen to think it is a distraction …’ excellent point … However, this is a new precedent for the US and bears scrutiny for that reason if no other.

      • OR…precisely why we are taking the steps we are. It is the by passing of the school boards and the districts. It is the Feds taking that control away from the State and local areas. It is unprecedented and it is dangerous. Even if his message is just to the kids about school and education, the way he is doing this sucks. It is not right and it is a starting point and it is a distraction. We will fight…maybe to no avail but we will fight this.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          D13 – I understood that is not mandatory for schools to show this? It is up to the School Boards no?

          • Actually, you may now be right. The school boards have a big heads up on the issue now and time to respond. had this stayed below the radar, as it was supposed to, the administrators in the school and teachers would have called the shots. Based on who their unions supported last November, I can only imagine that 90 plus percent of the schools would have volunteered to carry it with the attendant propaganda package.

            If the guy could just run with stay in school, and used himself as an example as to how far someone can rise in this country, I would have no problem. I fear however that this gets more and more Orwellian as time goes on.

            Think of a Presidential PSA where the president takes the time to interview folks who, because of their circumstances should have had no hope of succeeding in this country but who did because education was a priority. I can see them all lined up on the Whitre House lawn chanting, “Stay in School. Stay in School”. That would actually be pretty neat especially if it also inviolved interviewing drop outs who have not done so well and now regret what they did.

          • Yes,Ray, it has changed in just the last hour. There has been so much protest that the school board has just issued a statement here, in Fort Worth. It is not mandatory and the class materials are not going to be handled out. Students who wish to see it can and those that don’t can opt out and go to study hall. However, I wonder what this does to the students that opt out? Will they be ostracized by teachers? Is this polarizing?

            One thing that is happening in Dallas but not Fort Worth, a lot of the class room teachers, minority classroom teachers, have Obama screen savers on their computers and wear Obama t shirts and messages. Students can wear this stuff but cannot wear a cross or God Lives or such. In addition, the kids can have Obama screen savers on their class room computers but cannot have other screen savers. This is very wrong and scary. But it goes along with this speech…IMO.

            We are taking a strong look see…..will keep you posted. After all, this is Texas. We like to fight.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              D13 – I didn’t think it was ever mandatory – but someone can surely prove me wrong.

              You’re concerned about the actions of one or more students polarizing them from others? Seriously? How long has it been since you were in school? Even 20 years ago there was polarization in the Pennsyltuckey school USW, Chris, Cyndi and I (and maybe others here I guess) all went to. This is probably the only time I would ever conceivably say this to you D13 – but you need to grow a pair (with respect to this issue). There is always homeschooling if you think its that bad my friend.

              • Cyndi went to our high school as well? How did I miss that?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                I thought so – maybe not – my bad if no.

                May have some new recruits from that neck of the words – unfortunate not in my camp. 😦

              • We’re all in the same camp whether we realize it or not.

                New Recruits? Some more folk from the hometown reading here?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Trying to – some folks that realized getting political on Facebook can get ugly. We’ll see if they take bait.

              • And I think you are right. I don’t think the White House ever said that it was mandatory. However, I did read that the decision was left to school districts and that there are many that are making it mandatory, while many others are not. It seems that many are changing their stance today based on reaction from parents. I can’t say I have too much of an issue there are each school district has to make the choice that they feel is best for their students and parents.

              • Let’s see…ummm. I graduated high school in 1965. However, I never went to public high school. I went to Allen Military Academy and started in the 9th grade. (No, I was not a problem child) My father made the decision that education was everything and Allen was a college preparatory school. I do know that in Dallas especially, any child that was for McCain was and still is not included in very much and that is a travesty. However, that is beginning to change. These teachers are allowed to wear Obama T shirts and have Obama screensavers on classroom computers. But if a child changes the screen saver to a sunset or something else, they are ostracized to no end and that is fact. Period. This is wrong and the Dallas ISD has no balls to stop it. So, the parents are.

                Nothing was or is mandatory but it is not the fact of the POTUS speaking. It is the fact of the US Dept of Education sticking its nose where it does not belong. I also have a huge problem with politics in elementary school and the precedent this sets.

                Now, I will say that it is all over the news this afternoon that the POTUS has significantly altered his speech and the school materials have been changed and the questions rewritten. So we will see.

                BUT, that does not change my opinion at all. If the POTUS is going into the schools and by passing the local and State boards…this is usurping States rights and is a greater travesty than have seen in a long time. AND IF the POTUS has any message other than “stay in school and do your best” then that is wrong as well, in my opinion.

                See my post at the end of this for I just got back from the School Administration Building and I will post what we found out in Fort Worth.

      • v. Holland says:

        I have teachers in my family and I brought this up last night(We had a family dinner) and none of the teachers had heard anything about the Presidents upcoming speech. I found this odd.

    • I am a minion and proud of it 😉

  2. Good Morning GG, I’m posting to get updates today via e-mail. This whole thing may be completely harmless, but it opens the door for teachers to actually grade students on how they view Obama. Knowing that young kids can say the darndest things, it will be interesting to read some reports about any problems (if at all) that may arise from it.

    You wrote: I think you should all try not viewing anything regarding socialism as evil for a few days in an effort to be more objective.

    This statement should stir the pot alittle, LOL. Me, I’ve traveled enough to know how people live under different forms of government. Through experience, not just opinion, I would not want to reside in a socialist country, as it does not provide for the masses as you may believe. Maybe you should research about some of the long time socialist countries and see that it is far from your utopia.

    Have fun today, normally I can’t post during the day, but will answer any questions this afternoon.


    • Forgot to check the little box again!

    • Which countries would you class as socialist that are in the world today?

      • The USSR was socialist, not communist. Cuba is socialist. China is socialist, although they are beginning now to integrate capitalism as they are beginning to see the benefits of it. Venezuela is socialist.

        The only true communist society that I can think of off the top of my head is North Korea.

        I think the reality is that socialism has been tried in many places and always eventually failed, as it breeds poverty and stifles industry and innovation.

    • Greatergoodcs says:


      I hear you regarding teachers who hold contrary opinions against students. I’ve experienced it several times (always liberal teachers giving away grades to those who regurgitate what they want to hear and lesser grades to those opposed to their world view). I’m sure it exists on the right as well, but I never experienced it myself.

      I’m all for firing teachers who abuse their authority (or anyone for abuse of authority so they get no slack here).

      I’ve also traveled (not lived in other countries) but I wouldn’t presume to know how life under a socialist state would be. What I propose (regarding greater good–society as a whole as opposed to segments of it) is an ideal (I understand that). But I do live in a society where capitalism is the basis of our economic system and as great as this country is (and it is), the gap (advantage vs. disadvantage) between rich and poor is too great and I don’t believe it has much to do with those on the short end being lazy. I think it has everything to do with the starting point (inheritence being the greatest culprit). That is just my view. I’m not suggesting any of your adhere to it.

  3. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Hi all,

    As I stated yesterday, Politics has no business in our schools — I included a link to a video that fully supports my reasons for feeling this way. If anyone wants me to post this video again, I’ll be happy to.

    During last year’s election, my son (10) was ridiculed by other students in his school for supporting McCain/Palin. His support was mainly for Sarah Palin. I am proud of my son as he stood by what he believed even though he was on the receiving end of a political bullying by other children.

    My daughter (6) loves Sarah Palin – writes her letters and has my husband fax her pictures that she has drawn of Sarah and her holding hands with lots of “I love you’s. But the in-school bullying made her “vote” for Barack Obama during classroom elections — that’s okay with me and I told her as much — that she has to vote for who she believes in; we did talk about her reasons — but hey…what 6 year old really has a great deal of reasoning.

    Sorry…I digress…

    Anyway, I SUPPOSE if the intent of the President were to use his position of authority and importance to give a message of “stay in school”, “you can be anything you want as long as you apply yourself”, etc., then most likely I would be fine with it. You see…those messages are truly messages that ALL citizens can get behind — I think I can safely say that all parents (and non-parents) want our children to be successful, intelligent and non-delinquent. –If this were indeed how this “speech” were to go down, then I’m okay with it.

    –If this speech doesn’t go down this way, then I have issues with it. If the teachers, try to push their political beliefs, then I have issues. If BO tries to push his political beliefs (i.e. strays away from a message of stay in school) then I have issues — because that is bringing politics into school — then we get a situation like that video I posted where a teacher shames a young child because of her beliefs and makes her scared for her military father in Iraq.

    To sum my point up, like other conservative parents, I do have valid concerns. To be perfectly honest with myself and you, I have to wonder if I would have the same concerns if it were a “conservative” President (i.e. more slanted to my own political beliefs). For the record, I do firmly believe that politics need to stay out of our schools.

    I wish everyone a wonderful day.

    Best Regards,

    • RS,

      I appreciate your concerns.

      My wife is a teacher in a largely minority school. Her students (and their parents) unanimously supported Obama. When, out of curiosity, she asked why, the only answer they could come up with is because he is black. I found this interesting. Perhaps an even-handed cursory education in politics is necessary for young children? I couldn’t say, but I thought I’d throw that out there.

      As for your last statement:

      I have to wonder if I would have the same concerns if it were a “conservative” President

      I think this is a powerful piece of introspection. I remember when I was infuriated that Rove met with Hollywood directors to try to get certain types of movies made. I told my friend (a fellow lefty) this, and he asked me. If Clinton had done this, would you be complaining? Honestly, I think the answer is no.

      • Richmond Spitfire says:


        We are a caucasian family. My children have attended a school where they are the minority as compared to Blacks and Hispanics.

        My ex-husband (who is of a liberal bent) has complained about their school because of it being too “dark” and our children deserving better than that. In addition, he “downed” the school as it was a Title I school which allows for additional Federal Funds to help the “economically challenged” students. Frankly, I was shocked by his perspective on this. Please note: The school is not an inner-city school.

        I, on the other hand advocated to him that our children can only be better served by the diversity at this school. Children are “children”; when they are young, they really don’t care what ‘color’ is — this is what I personally believe will help dissolve a portion of racism between blacks and whites — these children developing friendships with one and another… Of course, it could be browns and yellows in another region of our country.

        Seems to be a major difference between the two of us parents; My views in this seem more liberal (yet, I’m the conservative); his views seem more conservative (yet, he’s the liberal). Weird from the stereotype of what you think a Conservative vs. Liberal is, isn’t it?

        From an academic standpoint, SOL scores are lower at the school overall, but my children’s SOL scores are at the top – advanced. The argument that a child’s intelligence will serve them well no matter what school they go to doesn’t hold water for their father. Please note that this school is given the same SOL tests as every other school in the State; in addition, this school has the same learning curriculum as every other school in the County.

        Best Regards,

      • Matt……it does not matter conservative or liberal. This is not right and by passes local and state jurisdictions and is an edict from Washington. It may happen this time, but it has pissed a lot off…

  4. I’ve been straying from Fox recently, not because of the news written there but because I’m tired of the fluff pieces they put in the middle of the site as you’re scrolling down. What do half naked women have to do with the news?

    My whole point of posting was this article:

    I thought it was a refreshing commmentary coming from a political standpoint. I couldn’t help but agree with him totally.

    On the education side of things. They need to tell the kids to watch the BO speech and ask them: What would the founding fathers do about the problems in our education system? What would Abraham Lincoln do? What would Adolf Hitler do? What would Stalin do? What would Jesus do? Have them so some research about what they all stood for and then ask: What would you(the student)do?

    • Edward:

      I caution you to reconsider the “agree with him totally” part.

      The punch line in all of this was “maybe they will finally collaborate” to address our problems.

      While I also agree with the impact of labels and our lifestyles, the problem with pieces like this is that they are alluding to abandonment of core principles.

      Why would I compromise with a devout statist of any kind if that compromise endangers my principles of freedom and liberty.

      That is the mind set that helped get us here.

      Now with that said, if there are issues that we can compromise on that do not adveresely affect or violate my core principles then lets lets talk. Or, if such a compromise will move me closer to my principles then lets talk.

      There is one thing missing from this fellows article, in my opinion. That is the failure of our electeds and interest groups to start the discussion from a point of factual and truthful information. Health care would have unfolded much differently if we had started with an effort to “correctly identify the real problems” and not used politicized view points as the justification for a one party solution.

      The Best to You and Yours

      • You’re correct I don’t agree with him totally. My agreement was mainly on the logic side of examining and questioning your beliefs so that you know where you stand.

        Also on the name calling and labeling. It gets way overdone by both sides.

    • Edward,

      I am with you on the fluff stuff on Fox News. They are not alone. All the major news websites now have more entertainment on their front page than actual real news. I understand as it seems that Americans are far more interested in who is screwing who in Hollywood than they are in politics or world events. It saddens me deeply to see our society devolve into this worship of Hollywood fruitballs.

  5. I got an advance copy of the speech. See below for some highlights:

    Students of America, my name is Barry, and I’m your Dear Leader, El Presidente.

    I came to you today to tell you the importance of hard work and dedication, of setting goals and meeting them.

    Someday, if you do all your homework and eat all your vegetables, you could even grow up to be President. Of course, there’s more to it than that. For that, you have to be a Community Organizer.

    What does that mean? We it means you have to start by joining the Young American Indoctrination League (YAIL). With your brown-shirt uniform, you will learn how to do such vital tasks as going door to door to raise votes for your local Democratic candidates. You will learn how to recognize un-American toughtcrime and report it to the correct authorities. You will make a difference.

    Now, some will say that you should not join YAIL, but these people are secretly racists, and if you listen to them, you are no better than the plantation owners who kept my ancestors in bondage. These people are thoughtcriminals and must be reported to ACORN as soon as possible.

    Additionally, membership in YAIL (which does not require parental consent or even notification) will give you government guarenteed rights to an extra hour after bedtime, an no homework in public schools. This homework deficit will be made up by assigning extra homework to the junior thoughtcriminals who choose not to join YAIL.

    To pay for this massive program, we propose a tax on the wealthy. Because you are children and have no money, the wealthy as far as you are concerned, are your parents. So you will be responsible for applying a “tax” to them, by taking anything of value you can find in your homes. Give this to you ACORN or WALNUT leaders who will make a deal with the Elders of Zion to turn it into the money we need to ensure a permanent liberal future for your children.

    It goes on.. I’ll try to get around to posting the rest

    • Richmond Spitfire says:


      lol…your really are the best thing since sliced bread!


    • That sounds like something Obama would stay. Can I get a copy of his speech? Where do I download it Matt?

      • Sorry, there’s nowhere to download it.. I’ll try to type out some more for you when work slows down.

    • Does he say anything about the kids sending their grandparents to the death camps under the new health care reform?

      • Well no, not explicitly, but from internal papers I was able to obtain, it seems that the plan is to encourage children in this organization to spy on those around them and report any thoughtcrime. Because the children are rewarded for their finds, the hope it that they will report their grandparents (and their aging parents, too).

        Once reported to ACORN and WALNUT, a death panel will be convened headed by Rahm Emanuel’s brother. This panel will establish the cost/benefit ratio for sending them to a re-education camp versus having them put down and liquidated for a food. Sick adults will be deemed to costly to re-educate unless they are valuable members of the Inner Party.

        • Well he will hopefully at least mention the setup of Minitrue, Ficdep and Recdep to further expand his glorious vision.

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:



          • Shhh!

            Keep it down! That’s a secret internal policy memo.. you could get me in real trouble if that gets out

          • Damn, now I will have to rethink my Green Flag.

            I so love the color green. First the Islamists now the Soylents.

            What is a man to do?

            Purple was my next choice but the NUT GROUPS got that one too.

            What is a man to do?

            Then there is red, but the commies got that.

            What is a man to do?

            White would be bright but surrender I won’t.

            What is a man to do?

            Black is a powerful color but can not be seen in the dark.

            What is a man to do?

            Gray would be a good mix, but is taken by the Pragmatist.

            What is a man to do?

            Blue is bold and true, but it makes me feel so….well blue.

            Boo hoo, what is a man to do?

            • You should have no flag. Flags are for governments, and governments are evil. No man has the right to make decisions for you. Who should decide for you what color your flag should be? Who has that right? Who possesses the moral authority? You? You would impose your flag color preferences on others? You, sir, have no such right to harm the freedoms of others.

              • Hush Matty! I gave him permission to use mine. The Nation that used to have doesn’t use it anymore.

                And better him than some assholes like the Aryan Nation. They should stick to the Nazi Flag.

              • You have no right to give him permission. The flag is an idea. If he copies your idea, he has taken nothing from you. He is free to do with his knowledge as he will. He may use “your” flag if he so chooses, but he may not force it on anyone else.

            • Try the Confederate flag. 😀

              Go ahead. You can use it. I hereby, as a gentleman of the South, give you permission.

          • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

            Great line, I loved it!

    • Is it too late to change the name of the group to CAROB(Children’s Anti-Republican Organization Board)? I’d like to stick with the nut/seed theme..

  6. Also,

    I abhor the American lack of education system. Its all about unions and money – the school systems tend to circle the wagons if you start questioning teachers or administrators at the local level about how they are doing things. I always hear the same arguements: if we only had more teachers, if we only had more money. Once they get what they want then they say, “We still don’t have enough teachers, we still don’t have enough money”. As if a good education has ANYTHING to do with teachers or money?

    The best teachers I’ve had in life did not have teaching degrees. Why do teachers in the school system need to be taught how to teach when almost every college professor does not? In my experience the quality of the instruction had nothing to do with whether or not the instructor was taught how to teach. So why do they bother with getting teaching degrees? Why are they required?

    A lot of college corses are basically taught all by powerpoint anymore. Its more of a dog and pony show than a teaching session. The students don’t even need to go to class really. They can get all the course notes up front and then teach themselves! Its only when they have questions that you really even talk to a professor. How would the same thing not work for a senior in high school, or a junior, or a sophmore? Once you hit 6th or 7th grade you should have the skills to teach yourself.

    Sort of like home schooling.

    • Greatergoodcs says:

      You wrote: “The best teachers I’ve had in life did not have teaching degrees. Why do teachers in the school system need to be taught how to teach when almost every college professor does not? In my experience the quality of the instruction had nothing to do with whether or not the instructor was taught how to teach. So why do they bother with getting teaching degrees? Why are they required?”

      Probably because not everyone agrees with you. While it is true our system has moved further away from basics (and that is a negative, I believe), it is also true that not enough of the population is educated enough to teach themselves (never mind their children). Now, that is a very subject opinion, but I suspect it’s closer to true than false.

      • You’re probably right about not enough of the population is in a position to teach themselves. As parents (and educators) the prime directive of education should be to teach our kids (and students) how to learn by themselves. Its the whole idea of being self reliant and not having to be spoon fed the information.

        It was a problem when we started home schooling. The kids expected to have mom feeding them all the information (i.e. public school). Mom expected the kids to take initiative to learn the material and to work indepently of having someone tell them step by step what to do. Mom won, but not until she showed them how easy it was to take it upon themselves to figure out what they needed to do.

        • Greatergoodcs says:

          I’m all for it (home education) and if I were starting over with my 3 kids it would be a serious consideration (if I could afford the time away from work).

          I’m more concerned about the lack of basic in school and “social” promotion than I am propaganda. Kids are passed along (grade to grade) because there are too many to fail (repeat). It has become a great big baby sitting service in urban areas.

  7. I have never had the experience of a President visiting my school when I was in school. I do remember the Governor of my state coming once but don’t remember anything about it. Anyways, past presidents have visited schools before. It happens all the time and we will hear about it in the news. To me it seems so common that I don’t think twice about it.

    Now if Obama was just going to make a speech directed towards schoolchildren about staying in school and the stuff listed in the article, I would say no big deal, just the normal stuff all the presidents or elected officials would say when they visit schools. My problem is definitely how it appears that the Department of Education is making it mandatory to be seen in the schools, and the questions that we are seeing are definitely worded poorly and they also appear to have a political agenda. What I think is wrong with the Department of Education in this case is that it should have left the teachers decide how they want to handle the speech and not suggest anything at all.

  8. bottom line says:

    Find a picture of the original pre-1933 “Arbeiterjugend(HJ) pennant”. Very spooky.

  9. bottom line says:

    Here’s a more direct link to the picture of the original pre-1933 Arbeiterjugend(HJ) pennant

  10. I only look at our school system through friends, due to having no kids of my own.
    I have a wide range of friends from very liberal to very consertive and just about everyone in between. The one complaint that I hear alot is that they are not teaching enough on the real facts. That their is too much personal input into subjects.
    We are all geeks by nature..LOL. We read alot from all sides and have very active disscussions on everythings. I believe that real education no longer happens in our schools. I am happy that my friends take the time and teach real facts from both sides to their children.

  11. Ray Hawkins says:

    I wholeheartedly support our President doing this and feel there is nothing to be afraid of – I would like to see a full copy of the speech made easily available to the Public. I am okay with (a) any stay in school message that is given and (b) injection lightly of any politics – on this last point perhaps this would give a lot of parents the opportunity to actually talk to their kids about the speech and discuss politics with an adult that will hopefully listen to and engage them. So maybe he mentions global warming? Big F deal – that should prompt parents to go down the path, ask junior some questions and prompt so learning and discussion. I’d think that even if you hate the guy – you’d welcome an opportunity to weed and feed that hate through this. See what he has to say then roll with it. Demanding that he never say anything directly to your kids – well – that seems more close minded to me than anything.

    • I agree with you about kids needing to talk to their parents. I’m ok with mentioning stuff like global warming or whatever. I’m not really opposed to this speech or whatever it is. What makes me uneasy, though, is what teachers will do with this. As has been discussed, it is unacceptable for a teacher to take a political stance and proclaim it as right. Even if a kid goes to his parents, now he/she has to choose, is Dad/Mom right, or is the teacher? It should never come down to this. Teachers should present FACTS alone. As long as that is all that is done (no spin) I’m cool with it.

    • Ray…the only problem I have with it (unless it turns out to be political in nature) is the way it is done. I totally disagree with the notion that the dept of Education in Washington has jurisdiction over local and state issues. This should have been presented to the school boards and districts, and have dialogue. I am also against how quick this came up and the lesson plan to be given out from the Feds to the States and locals.

      If the final result is political without the rights to redress, then there will be hell raised. Have already heard this morning that portions of his speech have already been changed. I am trying to get my hands on the lesson plan that was actually passed out.

      I support the fact that kids need to stay in school and they need education and avoid delinquencies.

      Do you see any similarities at all that if politicizing this speech is acceptable, then the there should be allowed religious airings to challenge students and provoke thoughts and questions? I am not a religious man and have no preferences but why can you support political trappings such as this and ban others? It does not make sense to me and does not fit even your definition of fair play.

      • A simple video/dvd/cd sent to states for their circulation would have been the correct way to go, if the mission was a “stay in school” campaign and nothing else.

        The campaign would be developed fully in collaboration between states, fed DEd, and local school districts. Then it would be implemented with local variations as needed.

        But that is not how this is being done.

        Because that is not the TRUE GOAL.

      • D13,

        There was a link in the article that took you to the letter that was sent out to principals. In that letter there are PDF files with the lesson plans.

        Hope this helps some.



      Why is it that the critical thinking questions and exercises are being given to children with the least cognitive skills and not give to those with the greatest cognitive skills?

      This is about further developing the cult of personality and aura of leadership. We need leaders to tell us what to do, we need them to make us feel good about ourselves. We must listen to them because they are wise and more informed than we. WE NEED A KING!!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Reinforcing a ‘stay in school’ message requires deep cognitive skills? Now you’re really reaching. I think you feel down an empty shaft in your cave. Need me to toss you a rope?

        • Your not reading the materials my dear friend.

          I am not reaching at all.

          Now answer my question. Why give the grade school kids the exercises and not the middle school or high school kids?

          Gee I hadn’t noticed the large drop out rate in elementary schools. Who got the memo and didn’t share it?

        • The reason older kids aren’t getting these materials is because at that age they start to take on political tones. The best analogy I can come up with is that it is ok for a 4 year old to take a shower with his mother – it is not so ok when the kid is 15..

          And, no, don’t toss him a rope. He must live with the consequences of his actions. He probably doesn’t want your socialized assistance anyway.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Good one Mathius – I’ve strapped myself to the tree I’m hugging anyway – no slack left in the rope.

  12. USW:

    I just finished reading F. Hayek’s book, The Road to Serfdom, and you have every reason to be concerned about what is going on in our country. You are not a conspiracy nut case. Keep doing what you are doing.

    It’s time that the 100 year progressive movement versus the Constitution comes to a head and we are living it now. I’m not sure what will happen but people are starting to wake up and it’s about time. A few weeks ago I attended a speech by Larry Arnn who is the President of Hillsdale College and he believes that the actions of Congress and Barack are bringing the situation to a head.

    I am opposed to the President’s September 8th classroom speech and follow up by teachers and I am contacting our Superintendent to voice my concerns.

  13. Ray Hawkins says:

    USW – “I began tonight writing about the radical appointments that the President has made in the form of his cadre of “Czars”. I wanted to answer Ray in his request for some proof that they are radical.”

    Let’s at least start this off on a neutral foot shall we? If you’re going to work from the position or assumption that all his advisers are radical and you merely want to shut me up then don’t bother writing the article. Using Van Jones as an example – I am honestly interested in this guy and what is he really all about:

    (1) Is he an opportunist that had some good connections and was able to jump on the green jobs bandwagon and land a cushy advisement job with POTUS? (I suspect the answer is yes)
    (2) Is he a hateful whatever whatever that proclaims allegiance to Communism? I don’t know – I keep hearing that and get frustrated when I cannot find anything original.
    (3) Is he someone with a mixed bag past that has some value to offer the American people? I don’t know – what exactly is the criteria that we can transparently see that these folks are earning the money they receive?

    Make sense? I doubt they are all radicals as you are setting the foundation – let’s just make sure we ask good questions here.



    • Ray:

      Here is a link to G.Beck show on Van Jones. It includes video of Mr. Jones and of course Beck’s take.

      I could not find the others Beck had done which included other quotes and video/tape of Mr. Jones and did a better job of showing connection between him and other “radicals”.

      I am not willing to sign up for the paid Beck site where I am guessing the other stuff has gone.

      I can tell you I did hear an interview of Mr. Jones following his arrest (Rodney King) and his time spent in jail and how it awakened him to communism as the answer.

      I have also seen the quotes from someone coaching Jones to tone down the rhetoric if he wants to get his agenda done. Thus his quote to the effect that I have given up on the satisfaction of rhetoric (aka. means) for the deep satisfaction of reaching the ends.

      This appears to be an elloquant rationalization of “the ends justify the means” to me.

      And if you think that the environmental concepts espoused by Mr. Jones in his speech last March are not grounded in the Green Movement and that, that movement is not part of a global governance movement modeled after socialism/communism, then you have not spent enough time around these groups. I have and they scare the hell out of me. But that’s just because I still value freedom and the concept of national sovereignty (yes BF you heard me).

      Can you imagine just how effective and efficient such a government could be?

      Please don’t rationalize away Mr. Jone’s value system just because he uses environmental degredation or inequity in social outcomes as his call to action. Most Americans share concerns for the same things. It is his solutions and ideology that is the threat. But then again that is only if you are concerned about freedom and liberty.

      Also, I hope you noticed that Mr. Beck was calling for a national discussion about what the real agenda is. He has been calling for this for months. If you think this country wants to abandon capitalism for socialism then have the brass to run on that platform and create a national dialogue about it. Don’t back door the agenda and call it something it is not.

      I am curious if that is what you thought you were going to get with Mr. Obama.

      I imagine this won’t satisfy you completely, but perhaps you will see there is enough smoke here that the MSM should be perhaps looking a little closer. As should all of us.

      Best Wishes

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          haha – I actually went looking for the link first. Should I eat lunch first and then watch this? Or is that not a good idea?

          • Watch it while eating. Multi-tasking is a techy thing isn’t it?

            I guess it depends on whether you can listen to Beck without projecting your pre-conceived opinions of him.

            He is guilty here of doing something all talking heads do. He “sets the stage” by injecting his opinion before showing the video.

            I have seen him do it the correct way before. Something along the lines of “You want to know what the guy said? Lets look at the video. Now, here is what I heard. What did you hear. Am I wrong? You decide”

            The other thing you must keep in mind is that this is but one small clip within a longer and more comples story. We are all guilty at times of condemning the clips without putting them in context of the entire story.

            Happy Viewing

      • I have found something very troubling about Glenn Beck, he has yet to address the allegation yet! I am not saying if Glenn Beck did or did not do this but would you trust him with your kids?

        • Yes I would trust him with my kids.

          Bob, I have looked into this for the last half hour after reading what you linked to. That site that you linked to was horrible. I bunch of hateful people saying some pretty hateful things. After researching it seems that this was a “joke” that some college kids decided was a good idea. Their thought was to discredit Beck at any cost, and they fully admit that it was meant to be “comedy”, although that doesn’t rate as anything near funny to me.

        • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

          Stop confusing him with Teddy Kennedy.

    • Fair point Ray. I was not interested in shutting you up. You mentioned that you would like more information. So I am trying to find some. I don’t think all of the appointments have been radicals. But I do note that there are quite a few. I will keep what you have said here in mind as I finish the article tonight. Thanks for your thoughts.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        USW – some folks are throwing stuff over the fence (as you’re seeing) – trying to digest now! 🙂

  14. My kids are grown up, but if I still had them at home I would keep them out of school on the 8th. We would watch the President’s speech together and discuss it as a family. I’m sure the event in the schools will not show a balanced perspective.

    If a large percentage of parents could do this, do you think the WH or the media would notice? I think this is another excellent opportunity for the People’s Voice to be heard.

    This is a gift, let’s take advantage of it. Kids should be learning the 3 R’s. Not propaganda.

  15. Ray Hawkins says:

    This also captures quite nicely why folks like me shake their heads with a hefty ‘sheesh!’ when conservative windbags bark up every tree they can looking for something to cling onto.

  16. This is a copy of the Classroom Activities they have planned for the kids before and after the speech. You can make up your own minds whether of not anything is wrong with it.

    Menu of Classroom Activities
    President Obama’s Address to Students Across America

    Produced by Teaching Ambassador Fellows, U.S. Department of Education

    September 8, 2009

    Before the Speech
    • Teachers can build background knowledge about the President of the United States and his speech by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama. Teachers could motivate students by asking the following questions:
    Who is the President of the United States?
    What do you think it takes to be president?
    To whom do you think the president is going to be speaking?
    Why do you think he wants to speak to you?
    What do you think he will say to you?
    • Teachers can ask students to imagine that they are delivering a speech to all of the students in the United States.
    If you were the president, what would you tell students?
    What can students do to help in our schools?
    Teachers can chart ideas about what students would say.
    • Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?
    During the Speech
    • As the president speaks, teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful. Students could use a note-taking graphic organizer such as a “cluster web;” or, students could record their thoughts on sticky notes. Younger children could draw pictures and write as appropriate. As students listen to the speech, they could think about the following:
    What is the president trying to tell me?
    What is the president asking me to do?
    What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?
    • Students could record important parts of the speech where the president is asking them to do something. Students might think about the following:
    What specific job is he asking me to do?
    Is he asking anything of anyone else?
    Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?
    • Students could record questions they have while he is speaking and then discuss them after the speech. Younger children may need to dictate their questions.

    After the Speech
    • Teachers could ask students to share the ideas they recorded, exchange sticky notes, or place notes on a butcher-paper poster in the classroom to discuss main ideas from the speech, such as citizenship, personal responsibility, and civic duty.
    • Students could discuss their responses to the following questions:
    What do you think the president wants us to do?
    Does the speech make you want to do anything?
    Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?
    What would you like to tell the president?

    Extension of the Speech

    Teachers could extend learning by having students:
    • Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants, puzzle pieces, or trails marked with the following labels: personal, academic, community, and country. Each area could be labeled with three steps for achieving goals in that area. It might make sense to focus first on personal and academic goals so that community and country goals can be more readily created.
    • Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short-term and long-term education goals. Teachers would collect and redistribute these letters at an appropriate later date to enable students to monitor their progress.
    • Write goals on colored index cards or precut designs to post around the classroom.
    • Interview one another and share goals with the class to create a supportive community.
    • Participate in school-wide incentive programs or contests for those students who achieve their goals.
    • Write about their goals in a variety of genres, such as poems, songs, and personal essays.
    • Create artistic projects based on the themes of their goals.
    • Graph individual progress toward goals.

    There is another for students 7 – 12. It is basically the same, with a few differences.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Sorry ESOM – I cannot find the anagrams, secret codes, or subliminal messages others apparently found in this.

      “……Paul is dead…….Paul is dead”

      “……if you can hear this whispering you’re dying…..”

      • I didn’t expect that you would. It’s only here so people can look at what they are going to get the students to do, without wild rumor.

        Were you LOOKING for anagrams, secret codes or subliminal messages?

        You tend to sound like you are looking and itching to find something to argue about. Go to someone else. I don’t know what to think about it. My only boy still in school has mind of his own. He would just be pissed that the President had the audacity to give him schoolwork. 😉

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          No Esom – it was a joke. I find this whole exercise and issue completely asinine and a great distraction for me on an empty day. I should go cut my grass or something.

  17. Why do we need to monitor and follow what our schools are up to? This video was shown to an elementary school in Farmington, Utah on the first day of class last week. Make sure you watch the entire video.

    • Hi Kathy

      Sounds to me that they’re pledging to Obama, not to the United States of America.

      Have a good day.


      • Ray Hawkins says:

        You’re right Judy – if you look closely all the actors are wearing brown pants and shiny black boots.

        • Hey Ray, that’s just my opinion, okay.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Got it Judy – just speaking to my long held confusion on why we get wound up on the wrong things. If that video is the worst thing out there then I think we are okay.

            • It’s not just the video Ray, I just tired of hearing people thinking he’s the second coming, or the Messiah, that we should worship the ground he walks on, and that he’s the greatest thing to mankind. That’s what gets me riled up.

              No other president has ever, as far as I’m concerned, has been treated the way he has. The way the media treats him, how Hollywood folks fall all over him, practically kissing his feet when he walks by, things like that.

              Like I said, that’s just my own opinion, and I don’t expect anybody to agree with what I said. I’m not pushing my opinion on anybody either. they can all think what they want.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Judy – ever hear of JFK? 40 + years later and he is still treated as royalty.

              • Maybe, but nothing like Obama has though. Kennedy wasn’t self absorbed like Obama is. I always thought Kennedy was a good president, and I liked him, but then I was only in the 7th grade when he was president too.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                For what it is worth … I agree he’s been given a VERY LONG HONEYMOON and I’ve begun to call him Barrack Bush III (when I’m torturing so-called liberal Democratic blogs-which is actually a lot of fun). The lib Dems are angry at me for voting for Nader (I duck once again objects aimed at my head), but I insist the Obama and the Dems are a very short pubic hair to the left of the Republican Party–not the extreme right, but the party as a whole).

                Still, I don’t see the big deal about this school issue; to me it’s just a big distraction from what he’s not getting done and the war in Afghanistan (that will likely bring down his presidency and messiah aura).

              • I personally think it is admirable that you voted for Nader…You voted what you thought was best. I wish I had voted for Nader, but I had it in my mind that I would vote for the lesser of two evils that seemed to have somewhat of a chance to win.

                I have done quite a bit of introspection since the last election, and will not make that mistake again. I will research all candidates that are on the national stage and vote for the one which most closely aligns themselves with my views. If none do, then I simply will not vote.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                I’ll post new, too squished

              • Hey Judy check this one out.

              • Hi Bama Dad

                Saw it earlier this morning. My son sent it to me, plus I think Kathy has the link to it as well.

        • So Ray, are you saying that YOU saw absolutely nothing wrong with:

          A) The video itself

          B) That it was shown to grade school kids

          All, one, or none?

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Nothing wrong with any of it. At that age, while in school, we watched a “scare the shit out of you” video due to the Atlanta Child Murders (I lived in the thick of it at the time). That video makes the SLC one look like a cartoon.

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            I’m with Ray on this. Big deal. They would’ve been better off leaving that “Servant to the President” but at least they left it to the office and not Barrack Bush III.

            • Better watch it again GG.

              The dude with the tatoos clearly says serice to Barack Obama.

              BO’s picture is at the beginning and good ol’ Demmi pledges service to “our president”. Now who the heck you think those grade school kids are going to think they are talking about. GW?

              By the way, this video first showed up when Mr. Obama’s ogranizers were trying to drum up signed pledges of support to short circuit media coverage of the April 15th Teal Parties. At least that is when I remember first seeing it televised or perhaps it was shown in a movie theatre. Old timer moment.

      • Did they really pledge to serve Barack Obama?

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          Secretly – yes they did – each actor, and its tough to see on the video, does a half wink with their left eye. That is a secret sign for us that belong to Obamanation (Abomination? – that was weird).

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      “I pledge to prominently display my middle finger to anyone who pisses me off….”

      “I pledge to limit all forms of stem cell research – even if all stem cells are donated”

      “I pledge to drive the biggest car possible that drinks as much gasoline as possible”

      “I pledge to ensure that I always call out differences in my fellow Americans based on skin color”

      “I pledge to never offer myself as a role model to my siblings and other family & friends”

      …..There – now I feel better – I hate when people try and inspire me to be nice. I am far more comfortable as a thoughtless Ogre.

      • Ray…Road Rage…you forgot road rage. Something like..” I pledge to blow the tires out of anyone that cuts me off”. 🙂

    • bottom line says:

      I pledge to be a sheeple and buy into this nazi-esque nationalist solidarity out of nowhere false messiah worshipping horse shit. BAHAHAHAAAAAHHHH!

    • Propaganda is normally surrounded by things that seem good or harmless. We have school projects that ask our children how they can help the president-even if what he is asking is good or harmless, they are still promoting the President is right and we should help him mentality. Now this, pledging to be a servant, not to the President but specifically to Barack Obama-words matter-brain washing at an early age is what my gut tells me-but I tend to look at the underlying, almost hidden meaning.

      • Despite Rays acceptance of this, notice that the principle’s reaction was gee if I had seen this first I probably wouldn’t have shown it. This is going to be a problem.

        I applaud the principle for getting in front and issuing appologies to the parents.

        Lesson here, never show anything to kids that the adults (principles and teachers) have not seen and discussed in advance.

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        Last night I watched the original movie (Hunchback of Notre Dame) and it was so contrary to the Hugo novel, I wanted to puke (except Charles Laughten was brilliant and Maureen O’Hara is gorgeous). Anyway, the point being, it was LOADED with propaganda that no doubt would’ve made Hugo puke (loyalty to Church and Royalty) while championing a “greater good” theme. I think propaganda is wherever one wants to find it (whether blantant or not).

        • v. Holland says:

          I really don’t have a problem with people pushing their beliefs or causes through books, movies, etc but when they represent the government and their pushing servitude to our president(to our children) under the guise of making pledges to do good-it bothers me a lot

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            I haven’t read the speech yet and don’t know about the pledges. If pledges to Obama were actually there (not just being read into it), I’d have a problem with it also.

            • v. Holland says:

              I wasn’t talking about the speech-I was talking about the video-My problem with the speech is the work sheet that came with it-it was put on the blog yesterday-it seems today that they have decided not to use it-I wonder why

    • bottom line says:

      What do these communist think america is?… they said “I pledge to be a servant to the president” I thought it was the other way around and that he works for us.

  18. Looks like they are already re-thinking the course plan for the speech.

    • Hi Willo

      What, it takes the president to tell kids how important it is to get an education, and to stay in school. I guess parents aren’t good enough to tell their kids that, something they’ve been telling their kids for generations.

      Hope your day is going good.


      • Great day so far! Hope yours is as well.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Judy – reinforcement is always good is not? Parents sometimes miss the obvious because they’re too busy being self-absorbed and showing off bad habits like watching too much TV, smoking or using foul language.

        • What does watching too much TV, smoking, or using foul language have to do with anything? I watch TV, smoke, and occasionally use foul language, doesn’t mean that my son’s turned out bad. Granted, some parents might not give to dimes about what to teach their kids, or spend a lot of time helping them with homework, of just plain spending time with their kids.

          But, you can’t judge all by just a few either. We made sure we taught our son’s the meaning of right and wrong, help guide them to go down the right path of life, told them they can do anything with their lives, not matter what. We always told them if you have a goal in your life, then do everything you can to achieve that goal. I guess it sank in, because that’s exactly what they are doing.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Judy – it was a silly trap that you walked right into – and a trap I set forth because I am equally guilty. Its the contradiction of parenting your child on what are good habits (staying in school) while demonstrating a bad one (talking with a cancer stick dangling from your mouth).

            FWIW I am the worst reformed smoker I have ever met.

            • Well, that wasn’t very nice Ray HA, HA, HA, but I’ll forgive you. I suppose we’re all guilty of something, right.

              Hope you’re having a nice day.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                My day is good Judy – hope yours is as well – am eager to hear how D13 made out today.

              • My day is going pretty good. I’m at work, so I do this in between doing other things here.

                It will be interesting to read what he has to say.

  19. Here is the Activities for 7-12. These are straight off of, so I shouldn’t have to hear that I or USW are being biased. If you wish, go to, and look for yourself.

    Menu of Classroom Activities
    President Obama’s Address to Students Across America
    (Grades 7‐12)
    Produced by Teaching Ambassador Fellows, U.S. Department of Education
    September 8, 2009
    Before the Speech

    Conduct a “quick write” or “think/pair/share” activity with students. (In the latter activity, students spend a few minutes thinking and writing about the question. Next, each student is paired with another student to discuss. Finally, the students share their ideas with the class as a whole). Teachers may choose to ask the following questions:
    What ideas do we associate with the words “responsibility,” “persistence,” and “goals?”
    How would we define each term?
    Teachers then may choose to create a web diagram of student ideas for each of the words.

    Have students participate in a “quick write” or brainstorming activity. Teachers may ask students:
    What are your strengths?
    What do you think makes you successful as a student and as a person?

    Teachers may engage students in short readings. Teachers may post in large print around the classroom notable quotes excerpted from President Obama’s speeches on education. Teachers might ask students to think alone, compare ideas with a partner, or share their thoughts with the class. Teachers could ask students to think about the following:
    What are our interpretations of these excerpts?
    Based on these excerpts, what can we infer that the president believes is important in order to be educationally successful?

    Create a “concept web.” Teachers may ask students to think of the following:
    Why does President Obama want to speak with us today? How will he inspire us?
    How will he challenge us?
    What might he say?
    Do you remember any other historic moments when the president spoke to the nation?
    What was the impact?
    After brainstorming answers to these questions, students could create a “cause‐and‐effect” graphic organizer.
    Menu of Classroom Activities (Grades 7‐12)
    President Obama’s Address to Students Across America
    During the Speech

    Teachers might conduct a “listening with purpose” exercise based on the following ideas: personal responsibility, goals, and persistence. Teachers might ask pairs of students to create a word bank at the top of a notes page that has been divided into two columns. On the right‐hand side, students could take notes (trying to capture direct quotations or main ideas) while President Obama talks about personal responsibility, goals, or persistence. At the end of the speech, students could write the corresponding terms from the word bank in the left‐hand column, to increase retention and deepen their understanding of an important aspect of the speech.

    Teachers might conduct a “listening with purpose” exercise based on the themes of inspiration and challenges. Using a similar double‐column notes page as the one described above, teachers could focus students on quotations that either propose a specific challenge to them or that inspire them in some meaningful way. Students could do this activity individually, in pairs, or in groups.
    Transition/Quick Review

    Teachers could ask students to look over their notes and collaborate in pairs or small groups. Teachers might circulate and ask students questions, such as:
    What more could we add to our notes?
    What are the most important words in the speech?
    What title would you give the speech?
    What is the thesis of the speech?
    After the Speech
    Guided Discussion:

    What resonated with you from President Obama’s speech? What lines or phrases do you remember?

    Whom is President Obama addressing? How do you know? Describe his audience.

    We heard President Obama mention the importance of personal responsibility. In your life, who exemplifies this kind of responsibility? How? Give examples.

    How are the individuals in this classroom similar? How is each student different?

    Suppose President Obama were to give another speech about being educationally successful. To whom would he speak? Why? What would the president say?

    What are the three most important words in the speech? Rank them.

    Is President Obama inspiring you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do anything?

    What do you believe are the challenges of your generation?

    How can you be a part of addressing these challenges?
    Video Project:

    Teachers could encourage students to participate in the U.S. Department of Education’s “I Am What I Learn” video contest. On September 8, the Department of Education will invite students age 13 and older to submit a video no longer than two minutes in length, explaining why education is important and how education will help them achieve their dreams. Teachers are welcome to incorporate the same or a similar video project into a classroom assignment. More details will be released via
    Menu of Classroom Activities (Grades 7‐12)
    President Obama’s Address to Students Across America
    Transition/Quick Review

    Teachers could introduce goal‐setting activities in the following way to make the most of extension activities:
    “When you set a goal, you envision a target that you are going to reach over time. Goals are best when they are “Challenging,” “Attainable,” and “Needed” (CAN). For example, a good goal might be: ‘I want to boost my average grade by one letter grade this year so I can show colleges that I am prepared.’ But, every good goal also needs steps that guide the way. These steps keep you on track toward achieving your goal. For example, my first step might be improving in all of my subjects by one letter grade. My second step might be completing 100‐percent of my homework in all of my classes during the first week of school. My third step might be taking an extra hour to study for all of my tests during each marking period. My fourth step might be attending a tutoring session or getting an adult to help me whenever I do not understand something. My last step might be the most important: asking an adult in my life to check on me often to make sure that I am completing each of my steps. Your steps should add up to your goal. If they don’t, that’s okay; we fix them until they do!
    Let’s hear another example of an academic goal for the year and decide what steps would help to achieve that goal…
    Now I want you to write your personal academic goal for this year and the steps that you will take to achieve it. We can revise our steps each marking period to make sure we are on track.”
    Extension of the Speech
    Teachers could extend learning by having students:

    Create decorated goals and steps on material that is the size of an index card. The index cards could be formatted as an inviting graphic organizer with a space for the goal at the top and several steps in the remaining space. Cards could be hung in the classroom to create a culture of goal setting, persistence, and success, and for the purpose of periodic review. (See the “Example Handout” section.)

    Create posters of their goals. Posters could be formatted in quadrants, puzzle pieces, or trails marked as steps. These also could be hung around the room, to be reviewed periodically and to create a classroom culture of goal setting and for the purpose of periodic review.

    Interview and share their goals with one another and the class, establishing community support for their goals.

    Create incentives or contests for achieving their personal goals.

    Write about goals and the steps to achieve them in a variety of genres such as poems, songs, or personal essays.

    Create artistic representations of goals and the steps to achieve them.
    Menu of Classroom Activities (Grades 7‐12)
    President Obama’s Address to Students Across America
    Example Handout
    (Please see below.)

  20. Gotta go all. Taking the afternoon off to go to the school administration building. Have an appt: with the Super…..see ya later.

  21. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    The only question one really needs to ask about this whole thing is, “What is the purpose behind President Obama specifically addressing the children of the United States.”

    As others have said, if his purpose is to tell them, “Stay in school, learn stuff, prepare yourself for the future.” then I am fine with that.

    If he is using them as his target audience because they are young, impressionable, and generally view whatever an authority figure says as “good”, then what he is doing is despicable.

    And yes, the same would go for George W. Bush had he planned an address directed at children.

    Government needs to just stick to its job. Once someone figures out what that job actually is, please let me know.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      If you think adults have a hard time staying with his halting & pausing speaking style (it drives me nuts) what will happen with these kids?

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        A few will pick their noses (one will always eat what he/she picks); a few will yawn and forget who he is; one or two will try to stay focused and get lost between pauses … and the rest will be thinking: “I wish it were Friday already …”

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          You forgot to mention, “most of the teachers will be quivering with excitement through the whole thing while the picking their noses and yawning. After the speech they will proclaim “Isn’t our President a GREAT speaker!?”” 🙂

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            sorry, that was supposed to read “while the students are picking their noses and yawning”

            I was trying to type at the speed of thought again 🙂

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            Probably few teachers will do that, sure, but it would be pretty cool to have any president speak where you’re working.

  22. bottom line says:
  23. Okay, time for some funnies. Just got these.


    What do you call two Mexicans playing basketball?

    Juan on Juan

    What is a Yankee?

    The same as a quickie, but a guy can do it alone.

    What is the difference between a Harley and a Hoover ?

    The position of the dirt bag

    Why is divorce so expensive?

    Because it’s worth it.

    What do you see when the Pillsbury Dough Boy bends over?


    Why is air a lot like sex?

    Because it’s no big deal unless you’re not getting any.

    What do you call a smart blonde?

    A golden retriever.

    What do attorneys use for birth control?

    Their personalities..

    What’s the difference between a girlfriend and wife?

    10 years and 45 lbs

    What’s the difference between a boyfriend and husband?

    45 minutes

    What’s the fastest way to a man’s heart?

    Through his chest with a sharp knife

    Why do men want to marry virgins?

    They can’t stand criticism.

    Why is it so hard for women to find men that are sensitive,
    caring, and good-looking?

    Because those men already have boyfriends.

    What’s the difference between a new husband and a new dog?

    After a year, the dog is still excited to see you

    Why do men chase women they have no intention of marrying?

    The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of

    Why don’t bunnies make noise when they have sex?

    Because they have cotton balls.

    What’s the difference between a porcupine and BMW?

    A porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

    What did the blonde say when she found out she was pregnant?

    ‘Are you sure it’s mine?’

    Why does Mike Tyson cry during sex?

    Mace will do that to you.

    Why did OJ Simpson want to move to West Virginia ?

    Everyone has the same DNA.

    Why do drivers’ education classes in Redneck schools use the car
    only on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?

    Because on Tuesday and Thursday, the Sex Ed class uses it.

    Where does an Irish family go on vacation?

    A different bar.

    Did you hear about the Chinese couple that had a

    blonde baby?

    They named him ‘Sum Ting Wong’

    What would you call it when an Italian has one arm shorter than
    the other?

    A speech impediment

    What’s the difference between a southern zoo and a northern zoo?

    A southern zoo has a description of the animal on the front of the
    cage along with… ‘a recipe’.

    How do you get a sweet 80-year-old lady to say the F word?

    Get another sweet little 80-year-old lady to yell *BINGO*!

    What’s the difference between a northern fairytale and a southern

    A northern fairytale begins ‘Once upon a time ..’ -A southern
    fairytale begins ‘Y’all ain’t gonna believe this s**t

  24. Greatergoodcs says:


    GG here: The lesser of two evils is a very tough one to get over. I might’ve liked McCain more had he not bent over backwards taking Palin on (then again, without her, he might’ve won just Arizona), but Palin was/remains downright scary. Initially I was supporting Rudy Guiliani until he wore the red sweater during his Christmas ad and convinced me he was the same as everybody else (just another politician). His timid performance at the Regan center debate finished him off for me.

    If there is anybody in the Democratic Party I could vote for again it would be the one they (his party) pokes the most fun at (Dennis Kucinich). I think it is deplorable how our presidential politics work; how Nader can’t get on the debate stage (from fear what he has to say will make sense, I suppose) and how Democrats make a joke of the guy who most closely represents MY politics (Kucinich).

    I couldn’t vote for Obama because of the CNN report showing how he used lawyers to overturn petition “signatures” to have the incumbent he was running against disqualified. That upset his “inclusiveness” for me.

    Dems will often argue the lesser of two evils theory and give Nader supporters hell, but they fail to acknowledge how Ted Kennedy stabbed Jimmy Carter in the back and assured Regan’s victory (which probably would’ve happened anyway, but Kennedy guaranteed it by splitting the party).

    I actually did vote for George Bush twice and feel very cheated (and stupid) for doing so. He was every bit as incompetent as he appeared and lying us into an Iraq war should have had him brought up on war crimes charges; his entire administration for that matter. And now Obama seems fine in going the same route. “Wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time?” My ass. If so, why aren’t we out of there? Why 2011 (a year before the next presidential election)? Our two party system is pathetic.

    I just can’t get myself to vote for either party again. They’ve had more than enough chances and I don’t see much of a difference in them now that Obama is in office. I call him Barrack Bush III … aside from talking a good game, he’s done very little differently than W.

    • I won’t rule out my vote for any party. The shame is that someone has to be associated with a party to even dream of having any kind of shot. I will do my homework on the next election, and vote for whoever most aligns themselves with my beliefs, and vote…or not if there is none.

      I part ways with you on the Sarah Palin thing. To me, she was the most real person involved in the whole thing…and wouldn’t that be great to have in the White House for a change? Just my opinion and I know there are plenty who disagree.

      I too voted for George Bush twice. I maybe don’t feel as cheated as you…but I was terribly upset that he spent like a drunken Democrat, and grew the government at what I used to think was an alarming rate. The Iraq war is quite complicated, to me at least. There were advisors and plenty of others that delcared that they had WMD’s. And that was what was communicated as one of the main reasons we went there. I personally think it had a little to do with some unfinished business of his fathers. It was in the end his descision, and he has suffered mightly for it.

      President Obama is spending this nation to the brink of destruction, and beyond if possible. I agree with pretty much nothing he has to say, and my wife thinks I’m crazy (she may be right) when I talk to the TV! When he was elected, I made a pact with myself to support him until he did something that was against my beliefs…it only took about 2 days.

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        I soooo wanted to like Palin when she was first announced and probably for the same reasons (in fact, I initially defended her on liberal blogs because I thought anything but a seasoned politician had to be better), but once she was cornered into genuine interviews she failed miserably. What she’s done since has only confirmed that her appearance on the national state was an act of desperation.

        I preferred Obama over McCain because of Palin but voted for Nader anyway. I agree … 2 days max. Once he went along with those bailouts (and used similar scare tactics that W used pursuing his wars), that was it for me. He’s just another puppet (from where I sit) of big money.

        Remember, it was big money that wanted the bailouts.

        • GreaterGood,

          I somewhat disagree with you on Palin interviews. Some of the questions asked, non of them ever answer. The difference
          was when they asked her, the kept rephrasing, and asking again and again. They did not do that with Clinton or Obama.
          If one of them dodged a question, they let it pass.

          And some of the questions are never to be answered on TV.

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            Trust me, I wanted her to shine but she didn’t. She couldn’t answer basic questions and looked foolish (and sounded worse) when she tried to work her way out of it. The SNL parodies often used her verbatim responses and they are mind boggling. She was in way over her head and politics is a very dirty game. I agree a very biased media went after her, but she made it VERY EASY. She was not prepped at all. What she’s done (and said) since has completely marginalized her. She will not be a political factor in the near future (except to chase independents away). She should do what she’s doing now, earning while the earning is good.

            • GreaterGood, notice this interview supposedly about the economy, spent as much or more time on McCain. Should she have read his biography, and read every bill he voted on first? Was Biden ever asked about Obama’s stance and voting record on abortion?

              And I’m not defending Palin, I have reservations concerning her, I am saying there was a completely different approach taken in her interviews. The media uses the term “framing”, on how to present an issue.

              CBS) When CBS News anchor Katie Couric sat down for an exclusive interview with vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, she focused on the economy – but also addressed reports that the lobbying firm of Sen. John McCain’s campaign manager received payments from the controversial mortgage giant Freddie Mac until last month. Couric asked for the Alaska governor’s reaction to that. Watch Day II of the interview, on foreign policy, here.
              Sarah Palin: My understanding is that Rick Davis recused himself from the dealings of the firm. I don’t know how long ago, a year or two ago that he’s not benefiting from that. And you know, I was – I would hope that’s not the case.

              Katie Couric: But he still has a stake in the company so isn’t that a conflict of interest?

              Palin: Again, my understanding is that he recused himself from the dealings with Freddie and Fannie, any lobbying efforts on his part there. And I would hope that’s the case because, as John McCain has been saying, and as I’ve on a much more local level been also rallying against is the undue influence of lobbyists in public policy decisions being made.


              Couric: You’ve said, quote, “John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business.” Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

              Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie – that, that’s paramount. That’s more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

              Couric: But he’s been in Congress for 26 years. He’s been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                I agree they went after her, but she was very unprepared (about everything). Reps should’ve known what was coming and I suspect they did by keeping her as far away from those interviews as was possible. I didn’t know who she was until she was announced. I saw her (thought she was hot) and then thought and posted on liberal blogs: “if this hottie knows her stuff, the election momentum just shifted big time”).

                But then she was cornered and she didn’t cut it at all (in fact looked foolish at times). She hasn’t done any better for herself since, I don’t think.

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


          I totally agree with you that big money wanted the bailouts and government gave them exactly what they wanted. I would be curious as to how you would get the big money out of the government though.

          Right now, the reality is that the big money definitely heavily influences, and perhaps even controls the government, so given that reality, what would you propose as a solution?

          By the way, this is an honest question and I am honestly agreeing with your premise, it is NOT a trick. You see big money influencing/controlling government as a big problem. So do I.

          • Ditto

          • Greatergoodcs says:

            I think the difference between our views is why (and/or how) big money controls government. I say the corruption is built into the system (capitalist system).

            I don’t know if there’s a “real” solution so long as there exists private enterprise. Anyone put into a position of power (legislative or otherwise) is going to quickly be tempted to go with the flow (with the money). I think that is human nature, but if we are going to stay with capitalism, corporations need to pay their fair share (percent of profits) and should never be so unregulated as to give away our (taxpayer) jobs.

            Mine paradigm isn’t going to happen; I accept that. Things couldn’t be nationalized over night with any real chance of surviving, but I’m interested in here and now and how the greater good can be served while I’m still alive. While we’re in a capitalist economy (and I don’t believe it is evil–I’m just restating that), we need to spread not only the wealth, but the costs of doing business. CEO’s should not (under any circumstance) be permitted to write their own tickets ($100 million dollar salaries/bonuses, etc.) … they can’t possibly earn that much if the national average is $40K (or whatever it is).

            I hope that is somewhat clear. No real solution except to say big money can’t be left unguarded.

            • GG:

              You are getting closer “I say the corruption is built into the system (capitalist system).”

              But it is not a Capitalist System. That is the critical part you are unwilling to question. That is what led to the heated discussion of the past week. The corruption is built in and it is destroying us. But it is not free market Capitalism. It is fascism which is now morphing into a mixture of socialism. If we use the term Mercantilism then we can say that in the end the fascist attempt to control results in the controlled being the controller. But socialism and fascism create the same result. The controll of govt by those seeking power and those protecting their money. Sometimes they are different and sometimes they are the same.

              You have to open yourself to the information being provided and then accept or reject on some reasoned evaluation. Capitalism in its true form does not corrupt govt. Govt creates an environment where in capitalists, or anyone, tries to protect themselves from the power of the govt.

              This is further proof that people inherently act to preserve their own first. It is our nature to preserve ourselves as individuals. Thus the philosophical foundation for Altruism, which supports socialism or fascism or communism is not consistent with human nature. The sacrifice of one for the many is not consistent with the laws of nature. No animal, including man, steps forward to give themselves for the “greater good”. Their actions may appear to do so, but it is usually an act directed at their own, or immediate families, survival. And this includes “brothers in arms”.

              Your assertion that humankind is evil, brutish, and savage in nature is not born out by our history. Yes it occurs at times and places. But it is not practiced wholesale by humanity on a consistent basis. Why not?

              Because it would result in our individual and then specie destruction. We also need to recognize that humans are unlike other animals in that we have developed concepts such as philosophy and ethics and morality to try and overcome our “savage” past. We are in constant transition. To reject our journey out of hand because we are “violent” ignores the very nature of human existence and its history.

              Sorry for the side trip their. Feeling a little philosophical this evening. Back to the main point, which is related.

              The mixing of business, or money, and govt is as old as those systems which are STATIST in their nature. Capitalism as in Laissez faire Capitalism, often called Free Markets on this site, (its easier to spell) does not require govt intervention nor mixing. It in fact deplores and rejects the entire concept.

              So you see, the system you crave is in fact Capitalism. You have simply been lied to your entire life as to what it was you had and thus you condemn the very thing that will save you.

              And before you jump into your mode of the recent past I urge you to lie still and listen carefully. Get the whole story before you swing your sword. Thrashing around will only cause you deeper pain in the cave.

              If you concentrate and work slowly the entire riddle will unfold and you will be able to set yourself free. Lashing out at the pirates and guardians located here is of little use in the end. For you see, as I have explained to our young Mathius, the secret of the cave is that you are the source of your own destruction.

              I would like you to now tell me what it is you think I have shared with you. If you disagree then explain in connected and rational ways why it is that you do. Please do not just use hyperbole.

              I look forward to seeing your potential fullfilled.
              Best to You and Yours

            • PeterB in Indianapolis says:


              You do not seem to realize that we do not have a free-market capitalist system. We have not for a LONG time.

              In my personal view, the bigger the government gets, the more power you are giving to “big money”.

              Nationalize everything, and who will control everything- the people with the big money.

              The only way to prevent that is to make it illegal for anyone to have “big money” which will never happen, because big money already controls the government now.

              Plus, if you told the American people, it is unlawful for you to make more that $X, no matter what figure you used for X, you would get an automatic revolution.

      • Nah I would say the soldiers who have been killed and maimed are the ones who have suffered.

        • Greatergoodcs says:

          Agreed. All the more reason to end both those (at this point) absolutely absurd wars. One we were somewhat justified in pursuing; the other we were lied into. But it’s been nearly 8 years, Hussein (if they want to go with Reason #19 why we went in) has been dead for a few years and I have no clue what Afghanistan is about anymore.

          As regards those soldiers who come home maimed. Do you think they deserve socialized medicine for their service? Or do you think they should have to rough it?

          I’m assuming your for it. I sure am (whether they were maimed or not).

          • They already have socialized/government medicine in the way of the VA. It really is not the best care out there…

            • Greatergoodcs says:

              I know they have it. I was curious as to your answer. It may not be the best care out there, but it is something. There are those without it altogether (and not just because they’re lazy and refuse to work–although there are those bums as well, I agree).

              So, then, socialism (in that form–health care for veterans) works?

              The same applies for senior citizens receiving medicaid. Of course it can be better (and should) but imagine there not being any medicaid?

              • GG, I would have to somewhat disagree on you point. Not everybody has health insurance, that’s true, but everybody has access to healthcare, whether they can pay or not.


              • Greatergoodcs says:

                That isn’t totally accurate, G-man. Private hospital do not have to accept patients unless it is an emergency (at least in NY/NJ). And should someone be unfortunate enough to lose his or her job while owning anything, as soon as they are out of the hospital, if the damage was big enough, they get to say goodbye to their possessions. To me that is criminal. I understand you’re against illegals and bums getting free medical, but that could be addressed in some real way (and should be). It is the honest working poor SOB who through no fault of their own gets the shaft (be it a lost job, an illness or whatever) who has to lose his or her home because of medical costs. Why not apply Medicaid across the board (as an option) and let those who want their own doctors pay for them (for now)?

              • below

              • Or instead of Medicare across the board, make whoever applies for and is granted unemployment benefits, have medicare as a temporary benefit until they get back on their feet. If it is the working man out of work/luck that you want to protect.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                I’m fine with that, but there are others who’d have to be addressed as well — not bums.

              • So the fact that the socialized medical system for veterans and the elderly is bad is somehow an argument in favor of socialized medicine. The statement “it could be better” seems to me to point to a different method, i.e. not socialized. I’ve said before and I say again, some social programs are necessary, but their existence is not an argument for socialism en masse.

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                So take it a step at at time (start with healhcare) rather than demonize a possible solution by attaching it to Stalin (in general, i know you didn’t say that but it is what seems to be the core argument against socialism; that it is some demon form of gov’t that will take all your possessions away and then kill you when you’re not looking).

              • v. Holland says:

                You are complaining about the control of money being in the hands of big business and with government collusion -they are able to help themselves while hurting the people but if you go the way of socialism you are giving government all the power9not the people)-we have already been shown that they can use regulation and the tax laws to do whatever they want-How is giving government more power the answer-limiting government power seems to be the answer to me

          • GG

            So, you’re another one who says we were lied to about Iraq, right. Why do you say that?

            Ever stop to think that he was going by the info he was given, and that congress also agreed to go into Iraq? So, you can’t say just Bush lied, because if you say and believe that, then you also believe that congress lied to.

            I’m sorry, but I am so tired of hearing that Bush lied, when congress was right there behind him, backing him up. Now, even they are calling him a liar. My, how the tables have turned.

            • Greatergoodcs says:

              Judy: You’re in quotes.

              “So, you’re another one who says we were lied to about Iraq, right. Why do you say that?”

              You wouldn’t believe the flack I took for defending his 1st reason for going to war in Iraq (for 6 years!). A ton of it. Then he changed it (WMD to spreading democracy) … and I stuck with it … then it was “Regime Change” (an original Clinton idea) … then one after another screwup (missing millions, Abu Grahaib, Blackwater, etc.) … it all became too much to ignore (for me).

              “Ever stop to think that he was going by the info he was given, and that congress also agreed to go into Iraq? So, you can’t say just Bush lied, because if you say and believe that, then you also believe that congress lied to.”

              I believe Congress and our Secretary of State (who didn’t bother reading the reports) should be lined up and shot for what happened, make no mistake (and that isn’t a raving socialist speaking, it’s an outraged American citizen. A lot of good people died and were maimed from the Iraq fiasco and somebody should’ve been held accountable (from top to bottom politically).

              “I’m sorry, but I am so tired of hearing that Bush lied, when congress was right there behind him, backing him up. Now, even they are calling him a liar. My, how the tables have turned.”

              A democratic Congress can be no more trusted than a Republican one. Agreed.

              • I think they all should be held accountable GG, and I agree that there were a lot of good people killed there, I know, because my son was in Iraq 2004-2005, and he lost 5 good friends there, so you don’t have to tell me.

                But, I was to understand that Obama was going to pull them out as soon as he became president, didn’t do it, instead, he’s sending even more, maybe not to Iraq, but to Afghanistan. So, in a sense, didn’t he lie too?

              • Greatergoodcs says:

                Judy, check out what I’ve been saying all along (other comments). Obama gets no slack from me. I think his proclamation “wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time” should be hung around his neck! Why are we still there is 100% right? We shouldn’t be. It’s totally bogus. And he’s claiming 2011 as the year we get out (the year before the next presidential election). Somebody say “politics as usual” (so much for change we can believe in.

                I’m no Obama supporter and what he’s doing in Afghanistan is Vietnam IV (or whatever number we’re up to now.

    • Am curious as to your thoughts about why the Progressive’s in the Dem party went with Obama and Clinton instead of Kucinich. Is he too socialist for them or what? It made no sense to me.

      The leadership of that arm was clearly stearing everyone away.

      I have my opinion but would like to hear yours, or Ray, Mathius, Chris for that matter.

      • Chris Devine says:

        For starters, I’d say the progressives aren’t a majority of Democrats (and certainly don’t comprise a majority of its leadership). Even though many posters here think Obama or Clinton are extremely liberal, the fact is they only appear so in light of the previous administration. Single-payer health care is considered the third-rail of politics in many countries and even the staunchest conservatives wouldn’t dare to mention abandoning it in favor of our version. Likewise, the way we allow ourselves to be polarized by issues such as abortion and capital punishment is pretty much non-existent in most other wealthy democratic nations.

        A better question would be to ask why many people in America like to mix their extremely conservative stances on social issues (e.g., abortion, capital punishment, military defense, etc.) with neo-liberal economic policy. On one hand some people have no problem with a government dictating which medical procedures are acceptable and deciding who deserves to live or die, but they balk at the thought of the government regulating industry or commerce. I have my own thoughts on this matter and I’d be happy to point out some recent research that tries to reconcile these seemingly incongruous world-views.

  25. Green Jobs’ Adviser’s Past Could Stir Trouble for White House at Critical Time
    White House green jobs adviser Van Jones’ past associations and remarks are stirring controversy at a time when the Obama administration is trying to keep controversy at a minimum.

    President Obama’s “green jobs” adviser could become a mounting liability for the Obama administration, as the latest revelation about Van Jones shows his belief that the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks could have been an inside job.

    Jones joined the “9/11 truther” movement by signing a statement in 2004 calling for then-New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer and others to launch an investigation into evidence that suggests “people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

    The statement asked a series of critical questions hinting at Bush administration involvement in the attacks and called for “deeper inquiry.” It was also signed by former Rep. Cynthia McKinney and Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans.

    The discovery comes after Jones had to apologize Wednesday night for “offensive words” he uttered in February when he called Republicans “assholes.” He said the remarks “do not reflect the views of this administration” and its bipartisan aims.

    But such statements just scratch the surface of Jones’ past commentary.

    He also has consistently leaned on racially charged language, pointing the finger at “white polluters and the white environmentalists” for “steering poison” to minority communities, as he makes the case for lifting up low-income and minority communities with better environmental policy.

    A declared “communist” during the 1990s, Jones once associated with a group that looked to Mao Zedong as an inspiration.

    Jones’ exceptional past is reminiscent of associations noted during the presidential campaign, when then-Sen. Barack Obama doggedly fended off claims that he was tied to radicals and overzealous activists.

    But with now-President Obama entering the perhaps trickiest phase of his young presidency — building the kind of consensus around health care reform that President Clinton could not — a divisive figure could prove disfiguring.

    “In this environment, I think the Obama administration should be very careful of its dealings with anybody who can be labeled communist accurately,” said Christopher C. Hull, an adjunct government professor at Georgetown University who runs the public affairs firm Issue Management.

    “That’s just going to play to the political sensibility that those on the right have that the Obama administration is socialist, literally socialist. … It is unwise to bring in people who actually do label themselves socialist or communist.”

    Jones has mellowed considerably since the ’90s. In some respects, he is about as mainstream as environmentalists come — with recognition pouring down from high places over the past few years.

    He’s won plaudits from former Vice President Al Gore, who declared, “I love Van Jones,” in an interview with The New Yorker.

    Actor Leonardo DiCaprio penned the write-up on Jones when the presidential adviser was featured in Time magazine’s 100 “Most Influential People.”

    “Steadily — by redefining green — Jones is making sure that our planet and our people will not just survive but also thrive in a clean-energy economy,” DiCaprio wrote.

    Jones was also named one of the magazine’s “Heroes of the Environment 2008.” He’s earned a slew of other recognitions from other publications and institutions. He was even named one of’s “Sexiest Men Living” in late 2008.

    Plus he’s the author of the 2008 New York Times best-seller, “The Green Collar Economy.”

    Now a member of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, his book’s central premise is that environmentalism and green jobs can lift up the economy and lift up low-income Americans.

    He is the founder of Green for All, which focuses on creating green jobs in poor areas. He helped the city of Oakland pass a “green jobs corps” program in 2007. Green jobs is also one platform of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, which he co-founded in 1996.

    He also co-founded Color of Change, an advocacy group that focuses on black issues, after Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

    Jones’ history has drifted between mainstream activism surrounding issues of race, poverty and the environment, and activity he has described as “revolutionary.”

    Originally from Tennessee, Jones graduated from Yale Law School in 1993. But his life took a turn after he was swept up in arrests during a rally following the Rodney King verdict.

    Jones has claimed he was monitoring police activity at the time, but that he met people in jail who changed his thinking.

    “I met all these young radical people of color — I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was like, ‘This is what I need to be a part of,'” he said in a 2005 interview with the East Bay Express. Jones told the newspaper he stayed in San Francisco, and for the next 10 years worked with a lot of the people he met in jail. Months after the King verdict came down, Jones said, “I was a communist.”

    At the time he became involved with a group called Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM), which described itself as committed to Marxist and Leninist ideas. He also started putting pressure on police in San Francisco, monitoring and drawing attention to allegations of police brutality. He was quoted accusing the police department of “killing black people.”

    He became a vocal critic of the federal government during the Bush administration. He and groups he was associated with assailed “U.S. imperialism” after the Sept. 11 attacks and called the assumption that an Arab group was responsible a “rush to judgment.” He later co-signed the petition calling for an investigation into government involvement in the attacks.

    For conservative critics, he has — as Hull warned — served as a ready target.

    “You can’t nominate all of these czars … and then say well you know, ‘I’m not responsible for all these people,'” said conservative commentator Ann Coulter. “People will start to blame Obama.”

    The White House has voiced great confidence in Jones, announcing in March that the “green jobs visionary” would in his new role advance the goal of improving energy efficiency and tapping renewable resources.

    • Hi Judy, Sorry I haven’t been in touch much, it seems I have a cracked rib, which hurts like heck, so I’ve been in slow motion lately.

      Good post, this guy Van Jones has no business in any government postion, as he is incapable of making a decision and sticking to it. One day he’s a communist, next day he’s a capitalist. He’s been so many “ists” nobody can keep track of them all, LOL


      • Hi G.

        WOW!, How did you crack a rib? Maybe canning all those veggies and venison did it. Just Kidding G. No prob, take it easy. I never did anything like that, so I don’t know how it feels. When did you do that? So, does that mean you won’t be going to your dad’s or what?

        I got that off the Fox web site, looked interesting, so I thought I would put it here for all to read. I guess he can’t decide what shirt of the day to wear. His whole cabinet is full of holes.

        You take care of that rib now, okay.


        • Still goin to Dads, I have to stuff a chicken in a jar for someone LOL. I’ll be fine, nothing a six pack won’t help!


          • That’s funny G. Never seen a chicken in a jar before. Is that something new now? LOL. I’ll see if I can find any next time I go shopping. Hey, maybe you can start something new, and get it marketed. CHICKEN IN A JAR!

            So, you think just a six pack is going to help you huh. Try something a little stronger, say like a shot or two of tequila, always helped. Well, not always, but sometimes.

            Didn’t answer my question G. How did you crack you rib? That’s if you want to answer.

          • v. Holland says:

            Do we a favor G-Man-do that snap thing first-before you try to stuff that chicken into a jar

            • VH, that’s the beginning! But the only thing really going in the jar is broth, the rest goes in the freezer. Should make some fine homemade soup this winter!


      • Richmond Spitfire says:

        Dear G-Man,

        I am so sorry about that rib…very, very uncomfortable…3 years ago, I broke 5 ribs, front and back and had collapsed lung…

        I feel for you! Is there anything I can do…chicken soup…a very gentle hug?

        Hope you don’t have too much pain…


        • Thanks RS! I’ll just suck it up and press on. Pain is only temporary. If you want you can come over and cut my grass LOL.


          • Just got done with mine so I’ll be right over.

            But since I just pledged not to kill the planet I will be riding my bike with push mower in tow.

            How long you think the grass will be by the time I get there?

            Maybe you ought to just buy a goat. Naw, at least make it a sheep, something at least remotely edible.

            • LOL JAC, If it were up to the environmentalist whackballs, I wouldn’t be allowed to cut my grass with a lawnmower until I bought a CO2 permit!

              Maybe a sheep would be a good idea, smarter than anyone in D.C. anyway!


  26. GG, your point is well intended. I try to look at this issue but looking at how well government has run anything in the past. Medicare and Medicaid are on the verge of bankruptcy, what they pay hospitals for their services is far below what the service actually costs. This is one big reason why healthinsurance is so expensive, hospitals have to charge higher prices to them to stay viable, and open for business. If healthcare is socialized, it will greatly diminish the healthcare system as a whole, until we end up with substandard care.


    • Greatergoodcs says:

      Below costs because they aren’t regulated, G-man. So long as insurance companies need their profit margin (along with doctors, etc.), costs will be passed on to the poor SOB’s paying the freight (us). If they ended this two absurd wars tomorrow, we’d have enough to fund the insurance fiasco (with change to spare). It’s a matter of priorities. The health care industry isn’t going to empty their pockets without a fight, no matter who suffers.

      • GG, I will agree that the health insurance industry needs fixed, but that should be a State issue, and they can do it, if the elected ones weren’t funded by the same insurance industry that needs fixed.

        I spend about 25K a day for just the maintenance parts and service of a 450 bed hospital. On average, they make a profit (usually around a million) about once every 3 to 5 years. When they make a profit, all the employees share in that, with a nice check (profit sharing). We are also non-profit, like 75% of the hospitals throughout the U.S. Everyone that works there, deserves a decent wage, depending on their skill level and what they provide to the overall goal, treating our patients the best we can. If, under the current plan, that goal will change to “survival” as a company, and an employee.


      • No we wouldn’t GG.

        The cost of the wars doesn’t come close to covering the medical bills.

        Don’t forget 30 trillion plus in unfunded Medicare liabilities. You have to add that to the bill.

    • Greatergoodcs said
      September 3, 2009 at 4:16 pm

      So take it a step at at time (start with healhcare)

      Please do start with health care reform. The house and senate have proposed health INSURANCE bills. So how does that address health care reform.

      46 million are without insurance. 11 million are illegal aliens that neither
      proposal addresses. There are hospitals in Calif. going bankrupt largely due to abuse of their ER’s by predominantly illegal aliens.

      NY/NJ are interesting. I got price quotes for insurance for both states.
      Blue Cross NJ NY
      $559.70 $2,286.82
      unknown company, no rating $641.98
      B+ rated I would likely choose $810.00

      One difference is NJ has tort reform, which no democratic plan offers. Obama made a closed door deal with the drug makers, why is drug reform not part of any plan. Here we can agree, big business is buying the government. If you support the plans they are offering, you are supporting that practice, and you don’t really believe its to help the greater good, do you?

      Another major reform they are not offering, I would love to buy insurance from NJ, it would save me hundreds a month.

      • Greatergoodcs says:

        I’m all for tort reform, brother. And we can cut out those who are here illegally as soon as we have an immigration reform that punishes those who employ them. I’m not saying give the store away. I’m saying protect those who need it (rightfully–citizens, taxpayers, etc.).

      • Two thoughts from my neck of the woods LOI.

        1. I just got a notice from BCBS of Michigan that our premium is going up 40.52%. That’s a hella increase but I checked out the options and it’s still cheaper to keep that than try to find something else (in our dottering years).

        2. Earlier this year, we had occasion to spend some quality time in the emergency room of a hospital in Saginaw, MI. Lunch with our elderly uncle got interesting when he passed out in a booth. Anyhow, as we were checking him in, a young (late teens) African American was in the emergency room seeking relief from a toothache.

        I know there is waste everywhere and it just makes me want to cry sometimes.

  27. Update on Fort Worth ISD administration meeting this afternoon. Apparently, our POTUS has heard and felt the repercussions all over the USA. It is on the news and confirmed by the school administration that all of the study guidelines are being picked up and not used as well as they are supposedly being rewritten by the US Department of Education. In addition, it is being widely reported that the POTUS has significantly changed his message to the children. There is nothing that can be done about his speech and Texas is leaving it up to the individual school boards to decide. I am told that some schools are going to watch and some are not and the students may opt out. If a parent pulls the child from school, there will be no unexcused absence allotted against the child.

    In response, we have pulled our promise of lawyers until we see and hear the speech and until we see and read the lesson guidelines. I do not favor compromise but can digress in this case. We have been heard and there is response. Now, the proof will be in the pudding and we will see what happens. I might add that there was a very large uproar here. The servers at the FWISD were shut down due to the overwhelming responses. Apparently, it is happening in a lot of places.

  28. Black Flag says:

    The revolution was over before the People knew it had begun.

    The day the government stole our children and put them in government schools, government won the battle.

    In government schools, the government filters information, reinforcing government and its actions.

    As long as the yellow buses keep rolling, freedom is fighting a desperate holding action.

    • I often wonder when government decided it need to intervene into the local neighborhoods and telling them what to teach. It use to be a community led education system and the locals had input into how and what their kids were being taught. Now parents have no choice and the state and federal gov’t make all the decisions as to what is being taught.

      The people that know best how to educate the kids in their community are the people in the community. Their input should be considered to be the most important, not the least.

  29. Judy, check out what I’ve been saying all along (other comments). Obama gets no slack from me. I think his proclamation “wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time” should be hung around his neck! Why are we still there is 100% right? We shouldn’t be. It’s totally bogus. And he’s claiming 2011 as the year we get out (the year before the next presidential election). Somebody say “politics as usual” (so much for change we can believe in.

    I’m no Obama supporter and what he’s doing in Afghanistan is Vietnam IV (or whatever number we’re up to now.


    I have to disagree with you about being in Afghanistan is bogus, We’re there for a reason GG, as well as Iraq. We cannot leave there until the job is done. Pulling them out before hand would then definitely be another Vietnam. I never said we shouldn’t be there, just said they all should be held accountable. I just don’t believe that it was all Bush’s doing.

    Yea, I know, just when will the job be done, right. Who knows when. I don’t think anybody knows that one. Have you ever been in combat GG? Ever been in a situation where it was either you or them? Maybe we should ask our troops who are there and see what they say about getting out before the job is done, see if they feel the job is already done. Ask my son who was there what he thinks should be done.

  30. Black Flag says:

    Gold – $991 – without a split of the dollar (that is the dollar went up too).

    What does this mean?

    It means gold is going to take a run at +$1000 to try to break that barrier – with or without intervention by the Big Banks.

    The Big Banks tried to stall gold by buying dollars (Dollar up) – but no takers from the gold bugs – they were selling dollars into gold faster.

    If the banks cannot hold the price of gold – there is no downward pressure on the metal.

    ….(For the old foggy guys here) Remember that scene in “Bullet” where Steve McQueen is beside the hired killers – they look at each from their cars while at a stop light- reach around, and buckle in their seat belts – preparing the audience for the best wildest car chase scene in history.

    … buckle your seat belts….

    • You might find this interesting..

      • Black Flag says:

        And then Nixon closed the gold window in 1972 – making gold no longer money – and the Order was repealed.

        HOWEVER, a case where an American happened to buy a 1933 Gold Eagle is interesting – it was seized as illegal loot and melted! (The collectors value of that coin was about $5 million)

        Since the coins, by law, had to be returned to the mint for melting, that law still stood on the books. The Secret Service acted upon that law.


        It is unlikely that the US government will do the same thing again

        1) Americans, personally, today own very little gold at all – 99% of Americans have never seen a gold coin.

        2) Gold is not money according to the US government – they couldn’t care less about it as such.

        3) Gold embarrasses the government – they would never admit that gold is still money by seizing gold and not, say, copper.

    • Black Flag says:

      An ETF is merely another form of a “promise to deliver” – the investor does not own the gold – he merely owns a piece of paper that says he owns some gold.

      I am not a speculator in gold – I am an investor in gold. I take delivery in my hand or to a bullion vault under trust.

      • Here’s a couple of questions for you.

        Is there enough actual Gold to cover the ETF’s being traded?

        If so, who has it?

        • Excellent question, old pirate!

          There is no requirement for an ETF to match its holding vs. outstanding issue.

          Now, they do publish their holdings and you can calculate the outstanding ETF against that holding.

          If they sell more than they have – you may own a piece of air.

          If they hold more than they sell – you own only what you can claim

          In other words, the worst only can get worse – the best, you break even.

          Who has it

          Probably India.


          A person needs to precisely understand the arrangements they engage – it is so sickening that no one or entity actually teaches our kids about the agreements they unconsciously agree to….

          When you deposit money in a bank it is no longer your money – you have given it to the bank for a promise of return.

          Same with an EFT – it is NOT your gold or money – but a promise!

          If the bank goes down or the ETF business goes bankrupt – you have NOTHING.

          A bullion bank is different – it is a trust.

          A BB cannot commit your gold as if it was theirs – it is not. IF they go bankrupt, you will GET YOUR GOLD BACK – because it was never the Bullion banks! They only held it in trust – you never gave it to them.

          This is a VITAL understanding! So many people lose everything believing that what they gave away is still “their” when it is NOT!

  31. Black Flag says:

    On August 24, a New York District Federal Court ordered the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to reveal which organizations received how much aid during the crisis. The FED was given until August 31 to comply.

    Then she extended this to September 30. This was reported by Bloomberg on August 28.

    I searched Google and Bing for “Federal Reserve,” “Bloomberg,” and “judge.” I was unable to find a story on the extension. No story was later than August 25. When a story cannot make it to Google or Bing, it is buried.

    There has been almost no media coverage on this delay. The public has a short attention span. It will forget.

    The power of the elite is still dominate – without media coverage, the judge will not risk her career bucking the elite.

    We will see in Sept.

  32. Black Flag says:

    Click to access 43319682.pdf

    Trade flows’ collapse continues in first quarter 2009
    Quarter-on-quarter, G7 exports fell 13.6% while imports were down 10.5% in the first quarter of 2009. Year-on-year exports markedly dropped by 22.8% and imports fell 16.8% in the first quarter 2009.

    We have not seen a collapse of the global economy to this degree since WW2.

    • Bonsoir, BF–

      Dare I ask how long that lasted, and what was the catalyst for recovery?

      • Black Flag says:

        Question1: Since about late 2007 – hyper-2008 to 2009
        Q2: Real capital (savings) – however….
        Government is consuming capital at a ‘never before seen in human history’ rate – and making a desert for business (especially small business, which typically has the hardest access but the largest multiplier of capital)

  33. Black Flag says:

    Spain: The Hole In Europe’s Balance Sheet

    You think we’re going to have it ‘bad’ – Europe is worse; far less wiggle room because their currency is not the reserve currency.

    When the system starts flying apart, the EURO will just tank – the Dollar will do the “Titanic” – break up, slide back up to the surface as if she is going to float, then go down like a bullet.

  34. Black Flag says:

    A professor in economics, specializing in fractional bank, regarding the recent FED announcement about its ‘excess reserves’:

    I am dumbfounded.

    I wonder how the transactions are recorded when the Fed uses excess reserves “to purchase longer-term assets”?

    The only way that makes sense to me is if he is talking about traditional open-market operations in which the Fed creates reserves to pay for such assets, and the banks do not lend out these newly created reserves, but rather they hold on to them as excess reserves.

    But in that case, why say “use” instead of “create”?

    If he means, that having created reserves to buy securities, and with the banks holding these new reserves as excess, the Fed then uses these extant excess reserves to buy even more securities, then we have, I think, outright fraud.

    So -fraud- in the FED – and the FED is fighting its audit with a new deadline of Sept. 30 to organize an appeal to the Supreme Court.

    The lunatics are running the asylum – and we are all locked in with them.

    • I thought the “reserves” were the level of cash reserves each bank must retain, per the Fed’s decision.

      If that is true then is this fellow claiming the Fed took the reserves retained by the Fed banks and used it to purchase WHAT? What were the long term assets? And who did they purchase them from?

      Did they not just exchange one form of asset, cash, for another, notes?


      • Black Flag says:

        Half right, old friend.

        There is a minimum, by law that the banks need to hold in reserve – 9 to 1 to loans – however, the banks have ‘banked’ the funds of the FED – they are probably holding 2/1 to loans today….. in other words, they have the potential to 4x to 10x infuse ‘currency’ into the economy – right now – with no restrictions (ie: divided the number by 1 = inflation rate; that is, 4/1 =200% 10/1=1000%)

        “What did they do”

        They created money, bought an “asset”, used that asset as value to create the same money they used to buy the asset.

        Imagine: you get to make an IOU, to buy land, but use that land to make ANOTHER IOU, to buy THE SAME LAND again… at a different price.

        If you sell to yourself, over and over, increasing the value, …. what are you REALLY doing?

        • So did they just increase the reserve amounts or did they increase the reserve by printing more money and adding to the reserve?

          Or, did they increase the reserve by purchasing assets (notes) and then using them as “reserves” towards the required balance, in order to release more cash for additional asset purchases. I am assuming here that when the Fed buys our own debt instruments they are paying CASH. Or is that a bad assumption?

          Didn’t the Fed increase the reserve to 20% ie, 8 loans to 2 cash recently?

          What do you mean that the banks have “banked the funds of the FED”? Are you saying the banks are simply holding the cash to the extent that the loan to cash ratio is now 2/1 instead of the historical 9/1?

          This fits with my theory that the only way the Fed can prevent the hyper inflation is to require the “Reserve” to increase to near the amount of cash they have created and added to the system. However, if they are already at a 2/1 ratio there is not nearly as much room to work as I had hoped.

          I expect much of the reserves will be consumed by further write downs as the commercial and then final wave of ARM forclosures hit. Perhaps the extent of the hit is expected to bring the ratio back to 9/1 by itself. This could be an indicator of the magnitude of forclosure risk expected by the banks.

          My dear friend, no matter which way I look at it I must conclude, WE ARE SO SCREWED.
          But I am truly at a loss as to what direction it will take.

          Would this be an accurate assessment?

          • So did they just increase the reserve amounts or did they increase the reserve by printing more money and adding to the reserve?

            None of the above.

            They increased the value of their assets by selling it back to themselves repeatedly.

            They used ‘currency’ to buy real assets (called the “toxic” assets) – which were over-priced land and homes – at much below real value. Ok, bad business deal – but ok – that is what the idea was – commit the taxpayer to a really bad business deal (buy high, sell low) for the benefit of banks – sick, but that is what (in theory) Americans voted these morons in to do.

            However it is a totally different game when you sell property to yourself at a higher and higher price to value that property higher!

            “Hi BF, I have property want to buy it?”

            “Sure, BF, what are you asking?”

            “A million, BF, sign here!”

            “Sure, BF, I’ll sign!”

            Shake your own hand… repeat….

            I am assuming here that when the Fed buys our own debt instruments they are paying CASH. Or is that a bad assumption?

            A correct understanding.

            The FED prints green paper, and give it to you in trade for the real property – BUT the paper represents a value HIGHER than the real value of property (ie: They gave a $100,000 to a you (bank) for a property that (once) was $100,000 (that you loaned against) but couldn’t sell for $10,000)

            Didn’t the Fed increase the reserve to 20% ie, 8 loans to 2 cash recently?

            Not that I know. The reserve rate, however, is irrelevnat at this time.

            Banks have banked $800 billion in excess to their legal requirement.

            In other words, the government gave them a pot load – and instead of lending, they stuffed the ‘gift’ right back into the government’s bank – the FED.

            It’s like giving your kid $100 bucks to buy clothes, but instead he gave it back to you to put in a bank account. You gave your kid the cash to buy clothes, because his clothes are full of holes – but he didn’t do that – he want’s to save that cash because he doesn’t believe the clothes he buys isn’t full of holes before he buys!

            Then you as the Dad, take that money and sell clothes to yourself!

            What do you mean that the banks have “banked the funds of the FED”? Are you saying the banks are simply holding the cash to the extent that the loan to cash ratio is now 2/1 instead of the historical 9/1?

            The FED is the ‘bank’ to the banks.

            SO they deposit cash at the FED like you deposit cash in a bank – to save money.

            The FED will lend the bank based on their savings acct. – like you with your bank – your bank will lend you money according your deposit – but unlike you and your bank (which lends a percentage OF), the FED loans a MULTIPLIER of …

            This fits with my theory that the only way the Fed can prevent the hyper inflation is to require the “Reserve” to increase to near the amount of cash they have created and added to the system. However, if they are already at a 2/1 ratio there is not nearly as much room to work as I had hoped.

            You got it.

            To prevent inflation, the FED needs to RETRACT currency out of the economy – and one action is to INCREASE reserve requirements.

            But they have not needed to do that – the banks did that on their own.

            The FED looks like a hero – they didn’t “FORCE” the recession – they just let the banks do it all by themselves.

            Though a deep recession is what the economy needs, it is politically impossible to allow.

            So government will force or cause the FED to change course – and pump currency BACK into the economy.

            I expect much of the reserves will be consumed by further write downs as the commercial and then final wave of ARM forclosures hit.


            There is no ‘write down’ against reserves. It is a cash to property trade. As far as the banks are concerned – it is a even trade.

            The holder of ‘junk’ is the FED and the tax payer.

            Perhaps the extent of the hit is expected to bring the ratio back to 9/1 by itself. This could be an indicator of the magnitude of forclosure risk expected by the banks.

            Yes, the necessary retraction is 9/1 or so….

            But imagine that disaster – the economy shrinks 80%…. what government can survive that?

            My dear friend, no matter which way I look at it I must conclude, WE ARE SO SCREWED.

            Sick, isn’t it.

            You are in a car, already off the cliff and you watch the ground rushing up to you.

            The only decision you have is whether you bend over to your knees or hold up your arms – both as an attempt to deflect the impact….knowing both is probably futile….

            But I am truly at a loss as to what direction it will take.

            The direction is **Crunch**

            Would this be an accurate assessment?

        • You know my friend I have been reading and preparing financial statements for year. This FED BS has me completely stumped. Their supposed Balance Sheet is nothing of the kind for starters.

          I am not even sure what the hell they classify as assets and liabilities. I am not sure they even have the latter. Seems that is assigned to Treasurey. I am not a stupid person but trying to figure out what is going on here sure is making me question my assumptions about my skill level.

          I can only conclude that we must KILL THE FED.

          This is based entirely on my country boy logic that if I caint unerstand it, it dont need to exist that a way. So might es wale kill it dead.

        • One more item on the subject.

          I have never seen an explanation from the pro gold folks on how we would use gold to back our currency.

          In the past this required setting a fixed price of gold, which is contrary to free markets.

          So how would we use gold if the price of gold is allowed to fluctuate based on market forces. Seems our currency could become somewhat unstable, no?

          As I said, nobody has been able to explain this so if you have the answer I would like to hear it.

          And that is all my dear friend.
          I have been running since yesterday on about 3 hours sleep and I think it has finally caught up to me.

          See ya tomorrow.

          • We will not go back to gold if a government decides this.

            You are right – gold causes massive waves because the market is enforcing upon government discipline that the government will refuse to abide

            Gold forces economic discipline on government – which is why they hated gold.

            If a government started to inflate – the People would convert their currency to gold – placing a run on the ‘government’.

            Government, at risk of losing their currency, was handcuffed. They couldn’t inflate.

            So, gold actually stabilizes a currency – it naturally prevents a country from over-inflating its currency.

            If the economy goes gang busters, there will be less currency then the liquidity required – increasing the value of currency in hand – increasing currency’s value to gold – gold price in terms of that currency goes UP.

            People would start to sell gold for currency – the currency ‘buys more’ than its weight in gold – the government ‘prints’ currency to maintain the stable price – increasing the liquidity of currency.

            Gold does not disrupt but stabilizes the currency. Governments, though, are stopped with using inflation as a tool to fund their misadventures.

  35. Black Flag says:

    Aren’t you all happy I’m around to brighten your day with great economic news?

    • bottom line says:

      I am glad that there are vigilant folks like yourself keeping a closer eye on things, more so than the rest of us. Thanx BF

    • Yes BF, What would we do without you. Somebody has to keep up with everything that’s going on, and looks like you’re the one.



  36. Black Flag says:

    “Find out just what the people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”– Frederick Douglas (1857)

    • BF, Thanks for all the wonderful news. I wonder if GG’s socialist system also means that if I get hurt a work, do those who benefit also get to suffer the same pain?


  37. Black Flag says:

    Men lose their minds speaking to pretty women

    Government Science, once again, spends hundreds of dollars to prove what nearly every woman on Earth already knew.

    • I think we women can just handle ourselves better then men can, when it comes to talking to a person of the opposite sex. We don’t get all flustered.

    • This morning during rush hour traffic, a woman in a minivan rear-ended the large work truck in from of her (the one with the flashing lights). It seems that the young male joggers had distracted her at a critical moment. It strikes me that the fluster can float both ways… just thinking … c

      • Okay, you got me there. I guess it’s no worse than with these people who text and talk on cell phones who can’t decide which lane to drive in.

  38. Black Flag says:

    For Alan

    It’s winter in Canada

    And the gentle breezes blow

    Seventy miles an hour

    At thirty-five below.

    Oh, how I love Canada

    When the snow’s up to your butt

    You take a breath of winter

    And your nose gets frozen shut.

    Yes, the weather here is wonderful

    So I guess I’ll hang around

    I could never leave Canada

    I’m frozen to the friggin’ ground!

  39. Hey BF I left you a message on continuing open mic conversations.



    I see trees of green…….. red roses too
    I see em bloom….. for me and for you
    And I think to myself…. what a wonderful world.

    I see skies of blue….. clouds of white
    Bright blessed days….dark sacred nights
    And I think to myself …..what a wonderful world.

    The colors of a rainbow… pretty the sky
    Are also on the faces…..of people ..going by
    I see friends shaking hands…..sayin.. how do you do
    Theyre really sayin……i love you.

    I hear babies cry…… I watch them grow
    Theyll learn much more…..than Ill never know
    And I think to myself …..what a wonderful world

    The colors of a rainbow… pretty the sky
    Are there on the faces…..of people ..going by
    I see friends shaking hands…..sayin.. how do you do
    Theyre really sayin…*spoken*(I ….love….you).

    I hear babies cry…… I watch them grow
    *spoken*(you know their gonna learn
    A whole lot more than Ill never know)
    And I think to myself …..what a wonderful world
    Yes I think to myself …….what a wonderful world.

  41. US, thanks for covering this topic. You said that you planned the first health care article for Sunday night, don’ forget that Monday is Labor Day. Think about taking that extra day for yourself and Mrs. US. my best to both of you c

  42. Ray Hawkins says:

    Affirming that POTUS Obama is setting no precedent tomorrow……

    Not sure if Reagan was the first to do it – but it certainly has thus been done before.

  43. Ray Hawkins says:

    I just read the speech President Obama is to deliver to the kids today.

    Pretty scary stuff –

    He mentions Harry Potter – (I thought before that he supported witchcraft – now I have proof)

    He mentions AIDS – means he supports Gay Sex

    He mentions being raised in a one parent household – means he supports the breakdown of the family unit

    He mentions a girl from Roma, Texas with a Hispanic-sounding name and said she didn’t speak any English when she first went to school – means he supports illegal immigration and gun control

    He mentions a Shantell from Chicago who started a program to “keep young people out of gangs” – sure, that was so she could enroll them in ACORN or the brownshirts – I know codespeak when I see it.

    What a horrible speech – I cannot believe any parent would allow their child to hear such drivel and socialist/commie/fascist/totalitarian indoctrination. If someone would have made this closet-Muslim show his birth certificate then he never would have been made President and force our kids to march in lock step with him.

    • Richmond Spitfire says:

      Hi Ray,


      I read the speech last night. I think it is a good speech — his speech is directed ‘to’ the children, not ‘down to’ the children.

      I’ve NEVER objected to one of our Presidents giving a “go get ’em”, “stay in school”, “you can be whatever you want to be” etc. kind of speech…I think such a speech from our President is a very positive thing for our children.

      What I do object to though is the teachers using this speech as a platform to inject his/her political beliefs into classroom instruction period(.)

      For example, I remember….many moons ago when I was in first grade (1972) my teacher was talking about the election (like I really cared in first grade, or even understood). At the end of the day, she told us, “Now, remember, when you get home, tell your parents to vote for Richard Nixon”. Of course, trying to be a good student, I went home and told my parents that Mrs. Rich said that they needed to vote for Richard Nixon. I never understood the weird look on my dad’s face until now. Then I asked my Daddy who he was going to vote for — his reply was Richard Nixon.

      If one of my kids came home and told me that (even if I were voting for the candidate that the teacher indicated) then I would honestly have a cow — and have to take it up with the Principal/School Board.

      Ray…this is just how I feel — I’ll state it again in case any of you haven’t gotten my position on this…POLITICS and RELIGION do not belong in our primary or secondary schools, period(.)

      I wish all of you a wonderful day! Rainy here in Richmond, VA – sucks with it being the first day of school, buses and whatnot!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Richmond – I agree with you 100% – teachers should teach – not push their own agenda politically.

        I think your rain is headed my way (outside Philly) – think you can keep it for a while longer so I can do yardwork later? 😉

        • Richmond Spitfire says:

          Hi Ray,

          I’ll try to keep it as long as possible…we need it desperately!

          Have a nice day and don’t stress out over the yard work…there is always tomorrow!



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