Tuesday Night Open Mic for November 24, 2009

Well, the open mic comes as we prepare to take a couple days for Thanksgiving. I will be taking some time off the blog as well. There will be no post on the night of Thanksgiving and I will do a guest commentary if I have one on Friday night, but if I don’t have a guest commentary submitted that night I will do either an open mic or not have an article. As many of you know, Friday begins my season of madness that lasts through Christmas. I will post as often as I am able, but there may be some nights with very little. I appreciate everyone understanding, as the season really is pure madness for me. The last couple days have been good conversations, but I do have to say that I am missing JAC and BF (Hope you feel better my pirate friend), especially on that first post this week about the path forward. I may have to rehash that article again later so that they can participate. I think we need to begin formulating a plan for what we can do. Tonight’s open mic has some good stuff, so I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

 

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Comments

  1. USWeapon Topic #1

    Lawyer: 9/11 Defendants Will Tell Jury ‘Why They Did It’

    The five men facing trial in the Sept. 11 attacks will plead not guilty so that they can air their criticisms of U.S. foreign policy, the lawyer for one of the defendants said Sunday.

    Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks but “would explain what happened and why they did it.”

    Read the rest of the article at Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576219,00.html

    Well, I have to admit that I love having an “I told you so” moment with people. As I said would happen, the 5 yahoos that are being brought to trial in New York are doing so for no other reason than to make a mockery of our court systems and to have a microphone for them to voice their distaste for America. Idiots, don’t they realize they could have contacted MSNBC and had all the platform they wanted to bash America…. oh that’s right, they actually want people to hear their views, and no rational people watch MSNBC. I forgot.

    I know there were many here who felt that it was right for this to happen. The feeling was that we would show the world we are above them by treating our criminals with respect and giving them a trial. As I recall, there were the claims that this would be an example to the world of our fine criminal justice system, and it would make the world see us as the good guy. Apparently not. There were even some who were claiming that the defendants in these cases would be not convicted because of the things that could not be done in a civilian court.

    Now we face reality. These guys are guilty. They are going to plead not guilty, but admit to being guilty. And their defense lawyer comes right out and tells us that they are going to manipulate the system, pleading not guilty just so they can air their thoughts about how bad America is. Eric Holder has offered them the opportunity to make a complete mockery of our court system so that the world can laugh at us a little harder.

    Brilliant move, Mr. Attorney General. Just brilliant. This might be the most inept administration in history…. or the most adept administration in history if their goal is to bring America to her knees.

    • So they will claim we MADE them do it. Well then, I guess that means 9/11 was justifiable homicide, right? What do you want to bet they very short sentences or go free?

      I’ll wait to the end of the ‘trials’ before I do my I-told-you-so song and dance number…

    • Agree, this was a stupid move regarding the terrorist and the international fallout. But if their intentions were to distract the American public from health care and Cap & Trade, it was pretty smart. If they wanted to give the terrorists a chance to promote terrorism to the world, they have given them their forum.

      I cannot think of any gain for America, only negatives.

    • First off: Happy Thanksgiving to all of yous!

      Sorry I’m late to the dance(s). The trial is no doubt a political sideshow but it is a very badly thought one; there is no win for Obama on this. If nothing happens and they’re convicted and whacked, big deal (for most Americans–it’s what we expect) and does anyone really think jihadhists will give a flying [—-]?

      As someone who travels through downtown NY and has a wife and kid who work there, it pisses me off no end that NY gets a third crack at being a prime target.

      It’s bad policy and worse politics and should something go wrong (anything, really), it may cost him a couple of traditionally blue states. So long as troops are fighting a war BECAUSE of 9-11, I don’t see how these pieces of shit get a criminal trial.

      What I find amusing is some of the liberal bloodlust; the dichotomy of let’s put them through our system and show the world how just we are … and then lets hang them!

      Unbelievable …

    • I’d like to know how this conflict will be played out as well. Obama convicts and sentences before the trials starts:

      “I don’t think it will be offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him,” Obama told NBC’s Chuck Todd.

      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29661.html

    • There is no comment that I can make except this is nothing more than a circus. Just as the dems economic policies have created more slaves than any slave trader in history, so will this circus….it will create more terrorist than any invasion or that any Bush policy even thought about doing.

  2. USWeapon Topic #2

    Tea partiers turn on each other

    After emerging out of nowhere over the summer as a seemingly potent and growing political force, the tea party movement has become embroiled in internal feuding over philosophy, strategy and money and is at risk of losing its momentum.

    The grass-roots activists driving the movement have become increasingly divided on such core questions as whether to focus their efforts on shaping policy debates or elections, work on a local, regional, state or national level or closely align themselves with the Republican Party, POLITICO found in interviews with tea party organizers in Washington and across the country.

    Many of these differences date to the movement’s beginnings last winter in an outpouring of anger about the huge increases in government spending enacted by President Barack Obama and the Democratic Congress. But they were overshadowed by the initial explosion of activism that culminated during the congressional town hall meetings in August.

    Read the rest of the article at Politico.com: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29744.html

    It sounds to me like the issue is being overtaken with pseudo-politicians who will look to forward an agenda rather than actually simply take a stand against government. The article correctly points out that the different groups simply do not play well with one another. As a result the people are becoming confused and fractured into separate groups, each significantly less powerful than they would be together.

    I think that this goes to the fact that they have not gotten together and done what we began here on Monday. The movement today needs to get a single strong message and combine to gather people to that cause. I submit that the message should be one of individual liberty and personal freedom. Make that the staple of your message. That is a message that the majority of Americans can get behind. But when you start turning it into the conservative message, the Republican message, or allow the two big parties to infiltrate your movement, you will lose a ton of folks who are simply fed up with Washington, not just one party.

    But let’s step out of our comfortable box for a bit. Look at the different directions discussed in this article. Is there a path forward that could bring all of these differing factions into a single cause?

    • Maybe they should consider specializing. Each Branch can have its own objectives and tactics so long as the various branches collaborate and work toward an over all goal. Just a thought. Its late here…..

    • I think Mathius has infiltrated them, and is sewing dissension.

    • Be wary of the messenger. Is the message true or what they want you to believe? I have personally attended several such events and get mailings from local and national groups that have been involved. I detect no in-fighting and the message has been consistent.

      The politicians have tried to jump on the bandwagon in some cases and that is a problem. I have also seen Republican politicians booed at these events if their actions and votes have not matched their talk. It’s never been about party politics but frustration with government intrusion and the politicians are sometimes the last to catch on.

    • Sort of reminds me of that hot June and July of 1776 down in Philly don’t it?

      I guess Lord North and the Times of London went on about the fractious debate not really amounting to anything, right?

      happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to All.

  3. USWeapon Topic #3

    Obamas Welcome Guests With Curry at First State Dinner

    The first state dinner of the Obama White House had it all: Oscar-winning entertainers, Hollywood moguls, a knockout guest chef and even a wardrobe malfunction.

    Traditional evening gowns vied with saris of vibrant colors Tuesday night at the high-glitz dinner in honor of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. There were turbans and bindis as well as diamonds and brocades.

    “Everyone looks great; we’re feeling great,” White House social secretary Desiree Rogers told a phalanx of cameras as she arrived, betraying no hint of nerves at the biggest social event of the Obama presidency.

    First lady Michelle Obama had been a little more forthcoming earlier in the day when she described the trick to pulling off the event as sort of like being a swan: calm and serene above the water but “paddling like mad, going crazy underneath.”

    The 338-person guest list was a mix of wonky Washington, Hollywood A-listers, prominent figures from the Indian community in the U.S., and Obama friends, family and campaign donors.

    Read the rest of the article: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/24/obamas-welcome-guests-presidents-state-dinner/

    OK, I will admit that I am being just a little petty on this one. But I simply wanted to point it out. I cannot admit to being the first to come up with this subject, as I heard it on the radio today from someone who was sitting in for Tom Sullivan on his radio show. He mentioned it and I knew I was going to quickly point it out to everyone.

    It is amazing to see the different ways that the press, being the unbiased pieces of trash they have become, handle a Democrat President versus a Republican President. When you take this one small issue, and realize that this epitomizes the treatment of GW Bush in the MSM, you start to get a great idea of not only the radically different coverage, but how the media took every shot possible to demonize Bush and create a hatred for him.

    When Bush held his first state dinner (just before 9/11), Newsweek magazine added their thoughts to the MSM coverage by pointing out that the country was in a recession, and as such the President shouldn’t be having lavish state dinners. It was an insult to the people in America who were struggling to get by. They stated:

    The Bushes held their first state dinner. POTUS served buffalo meat, wore cowboy boots and welcomed Clint Eastwood. Meanwhile, the rest of America priced horse meat.

    And I just find it interesting that the country is in a much worse recession/depression than we were then. Unemployment is over 10% (or 17% if you look at the numbers differently). People are losing their homes. Meanwhile, the wealthy elite that Obama and company claim to despise are being bailed out, funded, and saved.

    Yet the media has nothing to say about a $24,000 date night in New York or a lavish first state dinner from the Obama’s that featured Steven Spielberg and other Hollywood elite, and made the Bush dinner look like a cookout. The hypocrisy is so thick I can barely cut it with a knife.

    • “Let them eat cake” is the phrase that comes to mind….

    • The hypocrisy is so thick I can barely cut it with a knife.

      You can borrow my katana if you need help..

      I, for the record, did not object to Bush’s state dinners. I do think they could be toned down, but they are a diplomatic function and such is the way of the world. India is an important country, and it makes sense to go all out to show that they are important to us. We would expect nothing less from them.

      As for a $24k date night, I do wish people would get over this. The man is married. Married men must take their wives out on occasion or suffer the consequences. We knew all this when we elected him. Bush, I’m sure, did the exact same thing. As, I’m sure did slick willy – though it’s questionable if Hillary was invited on those dates. It costs money to protect the President.

      Diplomacy and secret service cost money. A lot of money. I wish both were cheaper, but as of right now, they aren’t. Both are important priorities.

      HOWEVER, I do not think that Obama campaign donors should be invited. You should not use government funds to reward campaign support.

      And now to the real meat of what you’re saying. Essentially, your gist is that Bush got hit by the media for every little thing, but Obama gets a free ride. Is that correct? If so, I am going to have to threaten the BS flag. Bush got hit with nothing for a very long time because every criticism was met with the observation that questioning the commander and chief in the time of war is tantamount to treason (a sentiment encouraged by the white house). And he did do a lot to get hit with.

      Along comes Obama and he gets hit with things like “did he bow too low?” and “where is his flag lapel pin?” and “he went out for a date night!” and “is he too unemotional?” and “is he a fascist?” and “is he a communist” and “he wants to kill grandma” and “he is trying to encourage vets to kill themselves” and “he is trying to encourage abortions” and so on and so forth with the idiocy. It goes with the territory. You only hear it louder when it’s against a Republican President, just as I hear it louder when it’s against a Democratic President.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        If you don’t think that Bush was blasted for every little thing, even after 9/11, you weren’t paying any attention.

        Also, name 1 time that CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, or any of the other so-called “mainstream” media said, “Along comes Obama and he gets hit with things like “did he bow too low?” and “where is his flag lapel pin?” and “he went out for a date night!” and “is he too unemotional?” and “is he a fascist?” and “is he a communist” and “he wants to kill grandma” and “he is trying to encourage vets to kill themselves” and “he is trying to encourage abortions”” other than in the context of saying:

        “I heard a teabagger just say the following–”

        Yes, there is ONE network calling Obama on his “flaws” along with well over half of the blogosphere, but the “real” media is still squarely on his bandwagon.

        • Bush got hit for some stuff, but not nearly as much as he should have. In much the same way that Obama supporters shut down criticism with claims of racism, Bush supporters shut down criticism with claims of being unpatriotic.

          Both get smacked around for a lot of ridiculous fluff and get a pass when it goes to the big stuff. It’s because the fluff stories make good entertainment – and, admit it or not, that is the true business of ALL news outlets. A nuanced reading of the health care bill would bore viewers and cost them ratings, but “OBAMA TOOK A $24,000 DOLLAR DATE!” holds interest (at least until the next idiocy comes along).

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      “OK, I will admit that I am being just a little petty on this one”

      You are only partially correct. Replace “just a little” with “extremely”.

      Any & all talk of the State Dinners (and Obama’s date) I generally dismiss as much ado about nothing. This discussion, for me at least, falls into the realm of the mindless drivel of the Access Hollywood type. The other night I was bottle feeding my son – hands were full so I could not grab the remote and change the channel. Access Hollywood came on (or one of those shows) and the lead story was this Adam Lambert character and his “outrageous” acts at some music awards show. I made it thru enough of the segment to sorta learn who Adam Lambert is (I am generally disconnected apparently from what qualifies as music / music talent nowadays), learn that he likes to deep tongue kiss other men during performances on awards shows and likes to mimic oral activity with male dancers in the same performance. It isn’t that I am horribly shaken and mortified at such (as some folks get when they see anything mentioned on POTUS and State Dinner) – I just don’t feel like watching that shit. Since I couldn’t turn the channel the kid and I went up to his nursery and read books together.

      The press will report what they will. You can always change the channel (or leave the room)

    • This also deserves not much of a reply. Bush/Cheney were pikers compared to the spending and ego of Obama and his ilk. Un *&*&*&*&*& believable but the reality of it is here.

      Learn to bow like Obama does….it is on the way to us all.

      • 😦

        I think you’re right.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        D13 – topically you’re not giving yourself a leg to stand on. This is/was State Dinner numero uno. Bush Dos hosted 6 as POTUS – a marvel considering his social retardation (not bashing that – I’d be the same – I hate functions like that and avoid them like the plague) and isolationist view of things.

        Perhaps Obama bows as he needs to check his Windex smile one last time in the shiny shoes of his host? Just sayin’

  4. USWeapon Topic #4

    Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And three of the SEALs who captured him are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.

    The three, all members of the Navy’s elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral’s mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.

    Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named “Objective Amber,” told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.

    Read the rest of the article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html?test=latestnews

    So the quick story is that this suspect was the ringleader of a group that attacked and killed for contractors from Blackwater in 2004. The report stated:

    The four Blackwater agents were transporting supplies for a catering company when they were ambushed and killed by gunfire and grenades. Insurgents burned the bodies and dragged them through the city. They hanged two of the bodies on a bridge over the Euphrates River for the world press to photograph.

    As far as I am concerned this guy is an absolute piece of garbage. And had I been the one to capture him, a cut lip might have been the least of his worries. I am not bragging about that or saying I am proud of it, I am simply stating the truth about how I feel. I am a little sensitive about people being drug through the street. After the way that these terrorists killed and mutilated and displayed the dead bodies of Americans, what they deserve is far worse than a punch in the face.

    Now three of America’s elite commandos face a court martial, which means they could lose their military careers, face jail time, reduction in rank, loss of pay. It means that three guys who the military spent tons of money training will likely end up never being allowed to use those skills for us again. This is the thanks that we give to men who went far above and beyond in serving their country…. over a single punch directed at a known murderer.

    If a father went into a court room and punched the thug that raped his daughter, America would applaud him. But because they are soldiers, they stand to have their career ruined and their lives altered forever.

    But I do understand that we are a country of law. And what they did was wrong. If there were not so many hundreds of laws broken by members of Congress that go unpunished I might have a different outlook on this subject. After all, I respect the law. I supported prosecution for what the soldiers did to prisoners in Abu Gharib. I support prosecution if those who conducted enhanced interrogation are found to have gone too far (according to the law, not the liberal whiners version of too far). But in this case, I do not support the prosecution of Special Operations soldiers for a wayward punch.

    Where does everyone else stand on this?

    • I think its a mistake. Our soldiers and security folks are going to be more concerned with covering their asses than protecting the country. I don’t blame them one bit. Sadly, I expect to see much more of this from now on, or until Obama is removed from office.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Cyndi – what does Obama have to do with the alleged actions of three Navy Seals in a holding cell in Iraq? You have to acknowledge this whole issue spun up LONG before Obama ever took office. To put it in his lap is irresponsible.

        • Ray,

          The One as done nothing to discourage our security forces/soldiers from being made to look bad, criminal, etc. I’m not going to try to convince you how un-wonderful the One is. You’ll never see it. The One has created/fostered an environment where the ‘good’ guys, that’s us, receive much more scrutiny and critizism than the people who are trying to kill as many Americans, and others, as possible. The Left has been playing this little Americans-are-the-worst game since 9/11, if not before. Do you remember the Marines being charged with murder after an incident in Fallujah? Those service were slandered, and dragged through the mud! An additional example of what I’m talking about is Nancy Pelosi claiming the CIA ‘lied’ to her. Even when the CIA disclosed the memos of the meetings, Pelosi STILL lied about it, and the Left defended her. The One could have sided with the truth, but its just not in him. You can defend Obama, Pelosi, and all who smear our security forces all you want. The agents and soldiers in the field, the folks with their asses on the line, know what’s going on and will protect themselves accordingly. I don’t blame them for putting themselves first now. The American ‘leadership’ we have, will let them twist in the wind if it serves a political purpose.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Cyndi – I am merely asking you to separate fact from fiction here. I fully understand where your feelings regarding your President Obama are – you do creep me out a little with the “until Obama is removed from office” comment – but anyway….

            IF (HUGE emphasis on IF) the soldiers committed a crime then they should be held accountable for their actions. Is this something you disagree with?

            President Obama has no business involving himself directly or indirectly in the due process these soldiers observed. If anything, these soldiers are trained far and above the rest of us in how to use their training to act and react given a set of circumstances. Meaning – they would know damn well the rules of the game and the consequences. True – there are details that we are not aware with respect to the incident – but to even suggest that your President Obama is somehow the culprit or root cause in this scenario is preposterous. It is patently ridiculous to assert that your President Obama created/fostered some environment that just picks on the good guys – you seem to be also asserting that you somehow know these soldiers did nothing wrong – how do you know such a thing?

            And finally, the only person I see smearing our security forces is you Cindy. You see – there are thousands of soldiers that do it by the book to the best of their ability. There will be the odd and unfortunate incident whereby some bad apples do something stupid – your failure to even acknowledge that the current situation merits allowing/permitting the proper investigative process to go forward undermines and smears all those who do it by the book. If you read the article you’ll know that the investigation was started internally – boiled up by other soldiers.

            • The TRAITOR, is NOT my president. IT is yours, so plese do not refer to IT as my president. If it was okay for Bush haters to proclaim Bush wasn’t their president, well, that’s good enough to me. Precedent, don’t you know. And I’m glad your creeped out over my comment about IT being removed from office. The sooner the better. Personally, I’d like to see IT arrested and tried for treason. I believe the birth issue is enough, let alone the damage to the country IT has caused. I’m looking forward to January’s supposed court hearing, that is of course, if IT doesn’t succeed in blocking it. I’m hoping ITS personal Blackberry is hacked into and we see just what ITS been up to when IT thought no one was looking.

              As for the soldiers. IF they did wrong, then let’s hold them accountable. I never said we shouldn’t. I never said we shouldn’t allow a proper investigative process, either. I think you have me confused with someone else. My point, is that IT, along with the Left IT represents, is destroying the trust of our security forces. We will all a pay a price. I was in the Army for over five years. I have seen how some people in positions of authority abuse their position to settle scores or make a name for themselves, and then cover their asses. I don’t have the details in this case, but I’m concerned that these soldiers are CONSIDERED guilty. Remember innocent until PROVEN guilty? How do you know they DID do something wrong?

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Every President in Office since I was born was/is my President. So too is President Obama – until you renounce your citizenship or he is defeated in the next election. You’ll simply have to put that in your pipe in smoke it.

                The current investigation has nothing to do with POTUS or the left at all – maybe that crap goes over on the Limbaugh show (in fact, on Rush today I cringed as I listened to another spineless right wing hack who is “in the know” claim this investigation is a payback for the Somali pirate incident where the Seals there did not supposedly 100% follow orders yet no one at that time did anything about it – what a crock), but you will be called on the carpet with baseless accusations or insinuations.

                You have not a shred evidence of that POTUS has reduced the trust of the US citizens in the military nor the military in trusting POTUS – if you have the polling data I’d love to see it. The people damaging trust in and around the military are the very people charged with the day to day leadership of the military – the Generals.

                And yes – as I said otherwise – no one should assume the Seals guilty of anything until the facts are brought forth. I think they have at least earned that.

              • You can claim him. I will not, as for renouncing my citizenship, it is probably going to come to that. Thank you for showing the true colors of the Left “this is MY country and if you don’t like it you can leave”. Wow. how uniting of you, how thoughful and inclusive! Yes, you’ve convinced me that your president is all about uniting America. NOT. As for that pipe, I’m not the one who’s been doing the smoking. Hopefully, your president will be removed from office before 2012. I’m praying for it right along with many others.

                I live on a military base. The uniformed soldiers are not going to come out publicly about their CIC, and you know it. So stop whining about polls and baseless accusations. That siad, people talk and give impressions. Ignore it if you must.

                Why must you bring Rush into this? What the hell does a radio show host have to do with this? If have no idea what Rush’s opinions on this are, nor do I care.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Cindy – The point about Rush is that all it takes is for the conservative media to print a story that raises but a sniff of controversy and the right wing picks this up as some conspiracy – happens all too frequently and dumps the debate in the toilet.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                But Cindy – I am not the one insinuating or stating that there are trust issues between the US Citizens and POTUS (generally or specifically) or the military (generally or specifically). I’m not the one whining about trust issues – so unless you can provide proof as such – I’ll assume all you have is anecdotal that you hear from a small sample of the overall population.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                And finally Cyndi – I am not claiming this country as mine and not yours – it is ours. The problem I have with your ilk is that you seek to de-legitimize your President of these United States through baseless asinine efforts like the ‘birther’ movement – rather than develop some backbone and address your malcontent through the processes and actions that people have shed blood for the last two plus centuries. Rather than put the sweat equity in to change things organically and from bottom up, folks such as your self resort to bitching and moaning on how the cards are stacked against them, it ain’t worth the time/effort and you’d rather undermine the hard work of others who oppose him thru b.s. such as ‘birther’, ‘deather’ or carping that POTUS is somehow tied to the Seals that are in hot water now. It is for that reason that I say “fine – give up – don’t try and change anything”. Here is the link to renounce if you are so inclined: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

              • Thanks for the travel tips, but I’m WAAY ahead of you. In any case its a sad state of affairs in a nation when veterans like me are told to go to hell by people who haven’t so much as put their money where their mouth is by serving in the military. I served in the Army so you could party in college. Thanks lot ingrate. You’ll be glad to know that tax paying people of means are already heading for the exits. I personally know of several others, and have read reports of the begining exodus. So be careful what you wish for. You and YOUR ilk need those geese to lay the golden eggs. How else do you think you’ll fund you communist utopia?

                Have you noticed, or has anyone noticed, than Birthers receive as much scorn as the Deniers? Well, how have things turned out for the Global Warming Believers? OOPPS, it seems the Deniers now have evidence of massive fraud. I’d be very careful Ray, because the Birthers you scorn, seem to have evidence of Obama’s Kenyan Birth. Now, if they could just get a judge to admit it into evidence.

                As always, it was very enlighting to see the depths of your foolishiness. Have a great day tomorrow and don’t choke on anything.

              • Another thing oh wise one, for 150K, you can your wish. Buy my house in Florida and then you can stay in America with YOUR president. The fact that most of my wealth is in a house I can’t sell kind of forces me to hang around f%$#@ up your president’s land.

                When can I expect the money?

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                A President is only legitimately President of this country if he honors his vow to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

                That being said, it would be hard to figure out just when we actually had our last legitimate President.

              • I agree with you Peter B.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                And the evaluation of that happens every four years Peter. He is legitimately your President until the electoral college says he no longer is (or Congress if sooner).

              • No criminal represents me, no matter what title.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                Flag – Defetiscor!

                Legally – yes – POTUS represents you.

              • Ray,

                Many men claim the represent me. Some point to words on a paper that someone else wrote, to claim that those words bind me.

                But of all the men that claim to represent me, only one does…

                Me.

    • USWeapon, my first post here, and i respect your comments, but I have to point out a couple of issues – “If there were not so many hundreds of laws………… After all, I respect the law”

      Our country has devolved from a great group of founding fathers that was able to craft a Constitution and Bill of rights that were broad enough to give guidelines while still allowing for adjustements from time, technology, and change in plain language.

      Contrast that with today where our politicians promise to bring home the pork and fiddle in the minutae of laws – zoning, coding, signs laws, dont spit on sidewalk, etc – dont like something, pass a law (dont text while driving). Therefore I no longer have respect for the laws of our land as its likely every single one of us breaks one every time we walk out the door, putting us more under the “Big Brother” govt’s control.

      USA’s 300 million population is very diverse in background, finances, needs and desires – you will never please everone everytime. But there are less than a 1000 elected senators and congressmen in DC, sent there to represent US, to do as WE direct – and we have forgotten that and its time to take that back and remind them.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        Try calling them and giving them a reminder. Try writing to them. Try electing someone else in their stead and seeing if you get any better response from the “new guy”.

        The system has grown impervious to our control, which is exactly the opposite of what the founders intended.

        As I often point out to Papa Dawg and others who advocate for a “return to the Constitution”, such a return MAY not be possible. I am not going to say it is impossible (nothing is impossible), but I don’t find it very likely.

        However, that being said, I think the founders had far more good ideas than bad ones, and we most certainly should do our best to keep the good ones while admitting there were some bad ones and figuring out how to fix the bad.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        Nice to see your first post by the way 🙂 Whether you are completely new to the site or have been following along for a while and finally decided to dive in with us crazies, welcome!

        • Speak for yourself, Pete.

          Don’t listen to him Gumpy, we’re not all crazies here. Sure, Pete is crazy, but I’m not. I’m just your average, run of the mill, stark raving lunatic. There’s a difference. No one is quite sure what to make of Black Flag..

          But I agree, welcome!

          • I have been following along a while, and thanks for the welcome!

            PeterB, that is what scares me, that a return to the Constitution MAY not be possible – we were set up so that revolt or revolution was not necessary to change our government, but it has tilted so far in disregard I fear it may eventually come to that.

            If this summers Tea Parties and Town hall meetings didnt force our representatives to listen and do as we desire, what WILL it take?

            Clinton is not my favorite by any means, but I have never quite understood the complaint put on him of “leading by polls” – is that not why they are their, to follow majority wishes?

            • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

              Majority wishes can be a dangerous thing, especially in a Constitutional Republic.

              The desires of the majority must be weighed against the overall desire to maintain freedom and liberty for the people. Quite often, a majority can be convinced to take actions which are contrary to individual liberty and freedom, at which point it becomes necessary to question whether following the will of the majority is actually the right thing to do.

              This government was originally set up so that a tyrrany of the majority could not happen.

              Just because there is “consensus” on an issue does not mean that the consensus is right.

              I don’t know what it is going to take to get to where we want to be, but at least we are trying to come up with some ideas here. The main one so far seems to be to take back control at the local level where we can actually have a positive influence. Perhaps if enough localities and States simply start telling the federal government “NO”, something positive will start to happen.

              • Point taken – balance is the key because when majority dont want for example this healthcare boondoggle without real reform (tort reform, illegal immigrants excluded, etc) then they should listen to majority.

                I will go back to lurking before I get in over my head LOL

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                As long as you don’t mind being challenged from time to time and you don’t fear the process of discovering your core belief and being asked to ferret out whether your beliefs actually align with your core belief, there isn’t anything to fear 🙂

                Post away, everyone has valuable contributions to make! The more the merrier!

              • Bottom Line says:

                I second that Pete.

                Grumpy,

                Welcome to SUFA.

    • Can someone tell me more about this “admirals mast”?

      Absent any more facts – I’ll do more research as time permits – I’d have to say that they did something wrong. You don’t get to hit a prisoner. I don’t care if you caught OBL himself, once the cuffs are on, you don’t get to harm him. Period. If, however, he was hit during the arrest.. well, I don’t have a problem with that. (and in this kind of case, I can probably look the other way at a more violent arrest than was strictly necessary).

      But I need more information.. I’ll post again once I have had a chance to read up.

      • “Admirals Mast” is the Navy’s version of non-judicial punishment. NJP ususally has lower punishments than a courts martial, and can include temporary loss of pay, loss of rank, extra duty, and restriction. its usually used for minor offenses, and many times the offenses and punishments don’t make it onto your permanent record. The biggest difference between NJP and a courts martial is that the servicemembers commander is presecutor, judge and jury under NJP. A service member always has the right to request a courts martial in lieu of accepting NJP. If you accept NJP, you are admitting guilt, and accept the punishment handed to you, and there is no appeal process.

        Not knowing all the facts, I believe that the SEALs in this case are justified in asking for a courts martial. Anybody who has read or watched “Band of Brothers” should remember the scene where LT Winters requested a courts martial instead of accepting NJP over trumped-up charges. Masgically, the issue went away. If the bloody lip was incidental to the capture, then the SEALs were perfectly within their ROE to subdue the prisoner.

        If this does go to a full courts martial, and isn’t dropped based on their not being any merit to the case, then I expect that we will see a return to the “no-defect” military of the 70s.

        • Redleg,

          Can you please explain the ‘no-defect’ military of the 70s? I think I know what you mean, but I’m not sure…thanks.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      USW,

      There is a key ingredient missing from the story.

      Was the person they sought to capture armed?

      Did the person they sought to capture offer resistance?

      Was he punched while offering resistance or was he punched after he had been captured and controlled?

      If he was punched while in the process of resisting capture or attempting to get away, he’s lucky he wasn’t shot.

      If he was punched after he was captured and controlled, simply because they didn’t like him or like something that he said, then they were stupid. Once you have an “enemy” captured and controlled, I don’t care if he spits on you, calls you names, brags about how many soldiers he has personally beheaded, or what. Punching him at that point just wouldn’t be very smart.

      So, do you have any more details on this? Any idea if the punch occurred during the capture or after the fact?

      • I’m with you 100% so far, Pete..

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          See, I DO make sense sometimes!

          • Bottom Line says:

            Pete,

            While I’m thinking about it, I’d like to thank you for something.

            You said something to me once about the system working in favor of the irresponsible. Without going into too much detail, let’s just say it was good food for thought for a better understanding of life.

            Thanx for the perspective. It helped.

            • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

              Glad to be of service 🙂

              I see my “mission” here as one of getting other people to think. Not to just parrot back what they believe, but to actually examine what they believe, why they believe it, and if the belief makes sense.

              If I helped you make more sense out of something, then I did good! You are most welcome, and I appreciate you letting me know that I got you thinking 🙂

              • Bottom Line says:

                As an effect of my obsession with personal responsibility, I tend to sometimes unfairly assign fault to myself when assessing a situation or dilemma. I sometimes rationalize things to be nobody’s fault but mine, even if it doesn’t make much sense.

                I tend to ask myself…”Okay self, You MUST be doing something wrong here. What is it? What did you miss? How can you remedy or rectify this situation?”

                What you promted me to realize is that part of what I have been doing wrong is being responsible.

                As strange as that sounds, it makes perfect sense.

                BTW, Given your name and proximity to where I grew up, I have to ask this on the off chance that you’re someone that I used to work with years ago. Did you used to work for Stoner at DJX?

              • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

                I did not move to Indianapolis until halfway through my junior year of high-school.

                While in high-school, I worked at several restaurants (Farrells and Sizzler actually), and then I went to college.

                Since returning from college, I have only held one job while in Indy (with a 3.75 year break to take a job at a lab in Chicago and one in Colorado).

                Always been an environmental chemist.

              • Bottom Line says:

                Okay, well you’re not the same PeterB then. But I had to ask.
                It’s a small world, and I’ve seen stranger things happen.

                I grew up 2 hrs south of you…Just a short hop on I-65.

                It is perceivable to me that you could have been a relocated him.

      • Agree, not enough information to come to any conclusion. Kinda interesting that punching someone is a misdemeanor for a citizen, but a court martial offense for a soldier? How about bring the terrorist out where we could get to them? I would pay $50 to punch one. It would be a great stimulus to the economy.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Great questions Peter – same stuff I was thinking. Thanks!

      • If he was punched after he was captured and controlled, simply because they didn’t like him or like something that he said, then they were stupid. Once you have an “enemy” captured and controlled, I don’t care if he spits on you, calls you names, brags about how many soldiers he has personally beheaded, or what. Punching him at that point just wouldn’t be very smart.

        Punching him was stupid. A rifle butt is much less trouble and does not hurt the hand. The mistake is in taking prisoners.

        It makes no difference if he is armed or not. You MUST assume he was.

        It makes no difference if he offers resistance or not. You must assume he will.

        Standard operating procedure on unruly prisoners while in transport is to silence them, if necessary, to prevent others from being involved. Oh, and before any of you say anything, silencing them does not mean to kill them. One hundred mile an hour tape works well. Tears the lips off when you remove the tape…hmmm bloody lip. Imagine that.

        The only thing that I can see is wrong, is that if he was controlled, back at base, in a jail and was bound and tied and hit. I doubt this happened with the Special Forces. We are highly trained….yes. But I will guarantee that emotion is held in check.,,,even after capturing a VC responsible for cutting off the testicles of a soldier and stuffing them in his dead mouth.

        However, if emotion runs amok….Even then…the punishment should be a beer and pizza. However, giving the martial law its due, I agree with the men requesting courts martial. Admirals Mast is admitting guilt.

        I suggest that before any of you start being critical, run a mission.

        D13

    • Bottom Line says:

      I wish it was caught on video so I could have the luxury of watching that turd get his face busted.

      I think it’s ridiculous that these men may have to face disciplinary action. It is IMHO, unfair to send a man into a combat situation and expect him to function flawlessly and without incident. Combat is extraordinary circumstance. Mistakes WILL happen. It’s not like they raped, or tortured anyone. It was a minor offense, so they punched the guy. So what? I think they should just simply dismiss the charges, thank them for their service, & give them a medal for a job well done.

      To those SEALs…

      SALUTE!

    • It is good thing I am not the chief turkey in charge!! I would change the rules of engage, pull all troops back to secure bases, then start launching fuel air cruise missiles and predator drone attacks killing as many of those animals as possible,
      The cult of islam, is not a religion,they have been at war for over 1300 yrs. Take a look at what just happened in the Philippines this week, one group of muslims killing another, no chrstians or jews around, so they kill each other!!

      The Seals should be fined for the cost of one round each because they did not kill the animal. If they had then PETA(people for the ethical treatment of animals) could howl an lament.

  5. USWeapon Topic #5

    Ed Begley Jr. Flips Out On Fox: Climate Change Is Real

    On Tuesday afternoon on Fox News, actor and environmental activist Ed Begley Jr. got into a heated shouting match with Fox News contributor and substitute Neil Cavuto show host Stuart Varney about the “hacked climate emails.”

    The conversation started out civil enough. “Does this change things at all, these emails,” Varney asks Begley. “Do you ever think that maybe you’re wrong about global warming?” The GOP has now opened a probe into the emails, and the Drudge Report is calling the emails “the greatest scandal in modern science.”

    “I think the science is very clear on global warming.” Begley responds. His point, in short, is that the newly leaked emails do not call into question the existence of global warming. Begley adds firmly, “don’t get your information from me folks, or any newscaster. Get it from people with Ph.D. after their name.”

    At this point, Varney and Begley begin to talk over each other, in the manner of a school yard fight.

    “The science is not in,” Varney insists.

    “It is in! Stuart, quit saying that. It is so in!” Begley interrupts.

    “The debate is not over, sir.”

    Read the article and WATCH THE VIDEO: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24/ed-begley-jr-flips-out-on_n_370022.html

    I just had to throw this in the mix for the day. It seems that much of the world is beginning to doubt that man made global warming is real. At a minimum, rational and logical folks are at least beginning to say “I just don’t know the truth because there is so much garbage reporting out there.” The conversation yesterday around AGW went civil enough but the conversation never really got around to really addressing the Copenhagen Treaty very much. I would still love to hear what people think of the treaty. Should this be another Kyoto, where the US tells the UN to stick it?

    As for this particular interview, I encourage everyone to go over and watch the clip at the Huffington Post (via the link above). It is highly entertaining. But more important, it gives us a glimpse at the radical fanaticism that is at play in the global warming debate. Mr. Begley doesn’t even have the ability to have a rational discussion around the topic on national television with the world watching. He reverts straight to shouting down a differing opinion and ignoring every single fact that is thrown at him.

    Just as telling, he is just fine with the government having the right to tell us what to do with something as simple as what kind of light bulb we must use. I wrote about these light bulb debates in the past. I should point out that the government is mandating that we must use CFL bulbs by law starting in 2014, and those bulbs are ONLY made in China. How is that for creating jobs and fixing the economy?

    • I’ve noticed that ALMOST without exception, AGW believers are incapable of rational discussion on the matter. They behave just like religeous fanatics. I love it when they trash Christians and their ‘imaginary friend’ Jesus, and then defend their imaginary friend AGW, just like the Christian. Gotta love it.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      The world SHOULD doubt that man made global warming is real, because…. well, it ISN’T real! It would be foolish NOT to doubt in something which is fabricated fantasy.

    • I do believe in some form that global warming is happening. But I also think that politicans on both sides have used this area to get better gains for themselves. I dont think any of the “plans to fix it” are going to help in anyway. It is only to line the pockets of people in government.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        I will agree that in aggregate, the world has been in an overall warming trend since the last ice age, but that is pretty much what happens when you go from an ice age to an inter-glacial maximum and it is perfectly normal. There is no cause for alarm over natural cyclical processes.

        • But short term, we have been in a cooling period since 98′,
          so how do they still call this “warming”?

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            The latest claim I have heard is that “natural factors are currently over-riding man-caused warming, and when those natural factors subside, the warming trend will resume”

            Of course, this is nonsense, because climate is well known to be cyclical. Of course after a cold period (like the one we are going into now) it is going to warm up again. What must be remembered is that there never has been, and never will be, some mythological “tipping point” past which we will see nothing but run-away warming. That simply cannot happen in a cyclical system like climate.

            We go through very cold glacial periods, we go through nice, temperate- sometimes even downright hot- inter-glacial warm periods. Even within the inter-glacials, there are extended “little ice ages” that happen and disrupt the over-all warming trend. We MAY be heading into one of those. Statistically speaking, we are actually due for a big glacial period, or an actual ice-age. Geophysically speaking this should happen “soon”. Of course “soon” on a geophysical time scale could mean tomorrow or 1000 years from now 🙂

            If you squirt a few drops of food coloring into a bathtub, the water turns the color of the food coloring. If you squirt a few drops of food coloring into the ocean, nothing discernable happens. Human input into the climate system is essentially measured in terms of a few drops of food coloring in the ocean.

            • I am a little more concerned about ice ages, as they last for 100,000’s of years, where warm periods only last 10,000. We might should be studying how to make the planet warmer.

        • I not alarmed on the “warming issue”, more of the way we are treating and wasting on our planet. I grew up with a high respect for the planet we live on. For Example: You dont litter, you try to re use as much as you are able, you throw away as little trash as needed etc. I think as a whole we could do miles better than we do.

          • America has been reducing its emissions faster than the EU, despite them signing Kyoto, and us not.

            About pollution, most countries do not care.

            http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            Ellen,

            We are ALREADY doing miles better than we have done in the past. All you have to do is compare air quality in most major industrial cities from say 1977 to now. The same goes for water quality, and land pollution.

            I most certainly agree that pollution is generally bad, and we should CHOOSE to limit it as much as possible. Pollution is also (at least currently) a necessary though undesireable byproduct of a prosperous society.

            I have absolutely no problem with the market coming up with solutions to pollution. I have all kinds of problems with the government mandating solutions, especially when such solutions are either unavailable or economically non-viable.

            I am all for polluting less and less as we discover newer technologies that enable us to live better and pollute less.

            As a side note, has anyone noticed the HUGE explosion in over-packaging? I thought that this was a big no-no with environmentalists, and yet instead of more reasonable packaging, I see a continuing trend towards ridiculous over-packaging without much complaint from the usual complainers. Not sure what is going on with that one….

            • I have an issue with government mandates that do not consider the economic impact.
              The EPA raised the emission standards a few years ago, resulting in a substantial price increase for diesel engines, a new standard comes into effect in 2010. This will cause a price increase for all diesel engines of six to eight thousand dollars, per unit.

              Think about who uses diesels, truck lines, Fed Ex, UPS, Ambulances & Fire trucks. The cost will be passed on to consumers and tax payers. The new emission standards are for nitrogen oxides.

          • Ellen, Someone on this site once said that conservation is a good thing to practice and we have improved as a society in this area. Environmentalists are about control and money – this is where AGW falls.

      • I don’t know if the world is warming up, or cooling down. I do know that the climate IS changing, because it always is, and that there is absolutely NOTHING that anyone on this planet can do to change that fact.

    • Funny video,

      http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/11/24/minnesotans-global-warming-mock-climategate

      Makin’ up data the old hard way
      Fudgin the numbers day by day
      Hiding the snow and the cold and a downward line
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)

      Michael Mann thinks he so smart
      totally inventing the hockey stick chart
      Hiding the snow and the cold and a downward line
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)

      Oh Climategate I think you have sealed your fate
      I hope you do a lot of time, cuz what you did was such a crime
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)

      The tree ring data was very thin
      you shoulda chopped more trees instead of hugging them.
      Hiding the snow and the cold and a downward line
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)

      Oh Climategate I think you have sealed your fate
      Well you know its a crime and hope you do a lot of time
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)
      Hide the decline (hide the decline)

    • A letter worth reading,

      http://blog.mises.org/archives/010939.asp

      It has been often said that the “science is settled” on the issue of CO2 and climate. Let me put this claim to rest with a simple one-letter proof that it is false.

      The letter is s, the one that changes model into models. If the science were settled, there would be precisely one model, and it would be in agreement with measurements.

      Alternatively, one may ask which one of the twenty-some models settled the science so that all the rest could be discarded along with the research funds that have kept those models alive.

      We can take this further. Not a single climate model predicted the current cooling phase. If the science were settled, the model (singular) would have predicted it.

    • Interesting interview on CNBC last night regarding the emails. GE alias NBC are doing their very best to keep the fraud going.

  6. Open thread mean you get your weekly dose of Schadenfreude.. enjoy..

    • Too funny Mathius!

      Speaking of kids football. We have a issue that came up here in my state. In a small town that my brother lives in, a girl tried out for the local high school football team as a kicker, since they didnt have one. She made the team and all was well. Well the coaches was less happy about it. He wouldnt open the looker room for her to use, he would give her the pads and equipment to wear. So during on practice, the coaches had her tackling with the boys without pads or anything on. The others had full equipment on. She was put in as QB and was sacked by four other players. She broke her pelvis in three spots.
      Whole town up in arms over the whole situation. Town is about 3200 people total.

      Thought I would share.

      • I say tar and feather the coach, but the girl is pretty dumb and should be held responsible too. There is no way I’d step onto a field (especially as QB) without pads. You have to know you run a chance of getting hit, and hard. And she’s a girl going up against high school boys. You’d have to be an idiot. She should have simply refused to play, or complained to authorities about mistreatment (just say the magic words: law suit, and watch them scramble to be accomodating).

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Agree with Mat – Coach is an a-hole, girl should have used her head a little more.

        • How about the H.S. boys they were just as stupid and of low character as the coach.
          I cant beleive they didnt stand up to the coach on this call. Wether they wanted her to play or not, that was surely a low life thing to do to anybody

      • Hey Ellen, Here is a story on the other end of the spectrum. Our school won the D2 State Football Championship last Friday. Our town is a “football town” and we’ve had a lot of sucess over the years. My son plays JV football and while they did get scored on this year, they’ve not lost a game in 4 years. My point is that our numbers are deep and you earn your playing time. Here is a story on our kicker this year:

        http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/football/article_834101e4-089b-5a87-a333-e3d7c5cef189.html

        Some coaches do realize talent!

        • Kathy

          I heard about that story. I thought it was great! I am all for anyone playing who has talent! Very Cool!

  7. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Gold is above $1180 this morning, continuing its seemingly un-abated climb.

    As I pointed out the other day, COMEX admitted some time ago that it only has enough physical gold to satisfy somewhere between 15-30% of all outstanding contracts.

    This has potentially HUGE implications. If even half of all outstanding contracts demand physical delivery, COMEX will have to renege on the contracts. If that happens, it could cause a run on banks, and a real collapse of the financial system, perhaps even world-wide. The banks are doing everything in their power to prevent that potential outcome, but none of their efforts have succeeded in driving the price of gold down.

    If you own gold contracts, ETFs, funds, or what have you, I would suggest converting to physical gold, and have it in your hands. “Safe” deposit boxes at a bank may not be safe. The bank could seize the assets in their safes, the banks could be outright nationalized and their assets seized, the government could AGAIN institute a law forbidding the people from owning gold and asking that it be turned in to the government (as happened in 1933).

    I don’t by any means suggest you convert all of your assets to gold, but if you have gold, make sure that you actually have physical possession of it. If you do not have any gold, having some can provide SOME protection if a collapse does happen. As BF has been saying for quite some time, evaluate your position and prepare and educate yourself. If you feel you are in a position to acquire some gold, it is basically never a horrible idea, and with current conditions it might be a very good idea!

    • As I have said before, gold will not save you if society collapses. It could be useful after society reestablishes itself, but until then, there are 300mm mouths to feed in the US alone – and you can’t eat gold. Neither can anyone else. You will not be able to buy food with gold. If you are worried about a collapse, you need the following:

      -canned food
      -ammo/guns (sniper rifle, shotgun, handgun, plus replacements/spares)
      -a compound bow and generous supply of arrows
      -survival seeds
      -some good manual tools
      -jars (lots of jars)
      -tons books to pass the time
      -a fine woman (or man)
      -good dogs (one male one female)
      -dog food (do not assume they’ll be able to provide for themselves)
      -a lifetime supply of everything in your medicine cabinet
      -pain killers
      -antibiotics (these will be far more precious than gold)
      -multivitamins (scurvy and other nutrition-related health concerns would be very real)
      -have your appendix and wisdom removed in advance – just in case
      -CB radio
      -water purification system
      -flints, accelerants (yes, you can use lighters, but they’ll run out of fuel eventually and rubbing sticks is annoying)
      -blankets
      -soap/shampoo
      -straight razor and sharpener
      -several good knives (cooking, hunting, multi-purpose, and replacements)
      -axe
      -bunker
      -and, absolutely most importantly, the means and know-how to produce your own alcohol.

      All this is expensive and takes planning – gold is a waste of resources as preparation for a societal collapse.

      • Bottom Line says:

        That’s five.

        1 people are stupid
        2 womens tennis
        3 fight club
        4 matrix
        5 inedible gold.

        • HA.. alright, you can have a few points for that. Are you keeping this list written down somewhere? Your score currently stands at -807. Keep it up 🙂

          Adding, I do so love Goldschlager. It contains gold flecks. If you mix it in equal parts with Rumplemintz and Jagermeister it’s delicious. I know how gross that sounds, but it’s worth a shot (or several shots).

          • Bottom Line says:

            Matt – “HA.. alright, you can have a few points for that. Are you keeping this list written down somewhere? Your score currently stands at -807. Keep it up ”

            BL – No list, just memory. I might need to start writing them down in the future when I can no longer keep track. I have one hell of a good memory but I’m only human. 5 is easy. 50 might require a pen & paper.

            Matt – “Adding, I do so love Goldschlager. It contains gold flecks. If you mix it in equal parts with Rumplemintz and Jagermeister it’s delicious. I know how gross that sounds, but it’s worth a shot (or several shots).”

            BL – I’m familiar with Goldschlager. Your recipe actually sounds alright.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        Mathius,

        Yes, you should make sure you have adequate supplies of food, fuel, clothing, medicines, and other emergency supplies if there is a big collapse. Some means of protecting yourself and your family is probably prudent as well.

        However, even DURING a major collapse, people will still excange goods. The medium of exchange will be bartering or GOLD. Gold has had tangible, recognizable value for over 10,000 years. The value of gold as far as purchasing power has held steady for the last 750 years, regardless of economic conditions.

        Sure, you cannot eat gold. You also cannot really provision yourself for more than maybe 6 months, even in a dire emergency. Even in such a dire emergency, there are still going to be people growing food, while other people do other forms of necessary labor. Gold is still going to provide the most easily recognizeable medium of exchange of goods other than merely trading one good for another.

        Even in the most dire of circumstances, I would rather be well prepared, and then IN ADDITION to being well prepared, I would rather have gold in the hopes of being able to use it to pay for my needs, as opposed to not having it at all.

        • If you can be adequately prepared and have cash left over, gold sounds like a good plan to me. But if you have to choose, go with provisions. That’s a valuable lesson gleaned from countless hours of playing Oregon Trail.

          • I agree with Mathius –

            Short-Medium-Long range planning in that order.

            Gold is part of the Long range plan.

            But everyone here should be well past the Short and Medium, right?

            It’s not like you all ignored my 321 warnings? right???

            • We have not – you’ve been a good teacher.

            • Hmm.. I believe the end times may in fact be upon us:

              Black Flag said:I agree with Mathius –

              Wow. Now I’m worried.

              No, sir, I’ve got direction to your bunker.. First sign of collapse and Emilius and I are heading right over. I trust that, while you aren’t obligated to help me, you’ll do so anyway for the entertainment value of arguing with me for the next few years until society reestablishes.

              Plus Em and I play some decent poker. We’ll even bring a few packs of card and our chips.

              And I doubt you’d pass up the opportunity to say ‘I told you so!’

          • Matt, do you like to play Sid Meyers “Civilization”? Seems to be BF would love this game being the ruler of a brand new civ with all the decisions left up to him ..

  8. Health Care Reform, Chang we can believe in?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/24/health-care-reform-packed-costly-grant-programs/?test=latestnews

    Demonstration Program to Promote Access for Medicare Beneficiaries With “Limited English Proficiency”

    The cost: $16 million a year. No grant could be over $500,000.

    Grants for “Early Childhood Home Visitation Programs”
    Not all of those goals are health care-related, though, and are included in a section that asks states to conduct “needs assessments” examining issues like high-school dropout rates and unemployment.

    The cost: $1.5 billion over five years. The program allows the grant recipients to go three years without submitting a performance report to the secretary.

    Grants to Promote “Positive Health Behaviors and Outcomes”

    The cost: $30 million over five years.

    “Healthy Teen Initiative” Program to Reduce Teen Pregnancy

    The cost: $50 million annually over a period of five years.

    Training for Dentists

    The cost: $1.3 billion for that and other similar programs over five years. The bill does not break out how much of that money would go exclusively to the training program.

    Wellness Program Grants

    Cost: Unknown. The section states that none of the grants, which can last up to three years, can exceed $50,000. But there’s no cap on overall payouts. The language provides for “such sums as are necessary to carry out this section.”

    Payouts for Fence-Sitting Lawmakers

    Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., who for weeks was publicly undecided on whether she would vote with her Democratic colleagues to bring up the health care bill for debate, won a hefty concession from Majority Leader Harry Reid before finally voting to proceed. The concession comes in a section that increases Medicaid subsidies for states recovering from a major disaster within the last seven years — meaning, Louisiana.

    The cost: Somewhere between $100 million and $300 million.

    Patent Protection for Drug Companies

    Section 7001 of the Senate bill protects manufacturers of biotechnology drugs, or biologics, from competition from generic brands for 12 years, which is more than the seven years recommended by the Obama administration.

  9. All I can say is wow. Just wow.

    • Can you sat Ft. Hood was a terrorist attack?

      • I can’t.. I’m not convinced that the point was terrorism over, say, impotent rage. I honestly haven’t delved too deeply into this one, but I haven’t seen evidence that he intended to terrorize rather than just kill.

        The difference is between murder and terrorism. Columbine was murder, not terrorism. 9/11 was murder and terrorism.

        Either way though, it’s a stupid ass thing to say on air.

    • I watched this show last night and if you had seen the entire segment it was obvious she meant after the 9/11 attack there weren’t any more attacks during Bush’s term. I admit she didn’t say it well but the only reason it sounds like a wow is because they choose to start the video in the middle of the whole discussion.

      • Beltway Sniper?

        • Matt, Matt, Matt,

          A nice razzle dazzle. I can admit both administrations are dis-honest. The “spin” never ends.

          I can state the Beltway sniper committed terrorist attacks.
          Islamic extremist committing violence upon unarmed, innocents. But you can’t say the Ft.Hood shooting, by an Islamic extremist was a terrorist act? You should be a star. But, I’m pretty sure most here are not buying.

          • I’m not convinced of what, exactly, Ft. Hood is. It may very well be terrorism. I won’t rule it out. I simply lack the necessary information. Did he just want to kill people? Or was he trying to scare us into ending our war in Iraq? I do not know. Until I know, I will assume that he is just a mentally unbalanced crazy person whose Islamic faith is the reason he felt so angry as to take matters into his own hands and then, he just snapped. Happens all the time. People just snap. Usually when they do, they just punch their boss in the face and stalk off. But he shot a bunch of people.

            But let me ask you this: imagine you’re a him, and it’s the day before the attack, and your intention is terrorism. You’ve been unable to contact Al Queda. So you’re going to do your lone terrorism thing. Fine. Wouldn’t you leave a note somewhere stating your intentions? “This is payback for your offense upon the Holy Land”? I mean, if you’re trying to terrorize, you have an objective in mind: you want X. So shouldn’t you make it clear that this is what happens when you don’t get what you want?

            Then again, the apparent fact that he tried to contact Al Queda makes me think that terrorism may have been his objective. I just lack enough evidence to say this definitively. Does that make you feel better?

            *If any of this is factually inaccurate, let me know.
            **Chicago was a fun show

            • “But let me ask you this: imagine you’re a him, and it’s the day before the attack, and your intention is terrorism. You’ve been unable to contact Al Queda. So you’re going to do your lone terrorism thing. Fine. Wouldn’t you leave a note somewhere stating your intentions?”

              Illusion is imagining, imagining, this is likely to get me shot or life in prison, which does not fit my love life at all.
              Sorry, I can’t think like a terrorist.

              I think you have embraced the KISS principle, when it suits you. Now it does not, so you want to qualify, and that is fine, you are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I see it simply
              as Islamic extremist committing violence
              equals terrorism.

              Was Bush’s label War on Terror” a label?
              Sure, but you have to call it something.
              Would “Operation Dumbo Drop” have been better? Obama has changed the label, but has not change the tactics, which is kinda interesting. Reminds me of the line in Chicago, when the guy is caught with two girls in bed with him, “are you gonna believe what you see, or what I tell ya”?

              • Operation Dumbo Drop was code name for a secret plan to impeach Bush.

                But just because someone is Muslim and commits violence does not make it terrorism. That’s too broad. By that definition, a Muslim who robs a liquor store is a terrorist. I think we really need to settle on a SUFA Approved definition for the term

            • More “Change” that is empty words only.

              http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/24/obama-administration-wont-sign-land-ban/

              Obama Administration Won’t Sign Land Mine Ban

              AP

              The administration recently completed a review and decided not to change the Bush-era policy, a State Department spokesman said Tuesday.

              WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has decided not to sign an international convention banning land mines.

              State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said Tuesday that the administration recently completed a review and decided not to change the Bush-era policy.

              “We decided that our land mine policy remains in effect,” he said.

              More than 150 countries have agreed to the Mine Ban Treaty’s provisions to end the production, use, stockpiling and trade in mines. Besides the United States, holdouts include: China, India, Pakistan, Myanmar and Russia.

      • Anthrax Attacks?

      • Attack on the Unitarian Church because because they supported and tolerated liberalism.

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25872864/

      • And then there were a few overseas too, but are we narrowing it to domestic only? She didn’t say that, but since we’re going off of what she meant, maybe she meant domestic..

        Daniel Pearl comes to mind.

        • v. Holland says:

          I will give you this one Matt, because there have been terrorist attacks during and after Bush’s term, I basically misinterpreted your wow because I see this You tube video just as a way to try and make her look stupid-If she was gonna say this than she should have added on some qualifiers, like no attacks close to the magnitude of 9/11. Please don’t interpret this as my discounting the horror of the other attacks, it isn’t.

          • I certainly didn’t interpret your reply that way!

            My wow is really at the complete sociopathic disregard for honesty. Obama is a failure because this happened, but it never happened on Bush’s watch. OK, it happened once (9/11), but that was really Clinton’s fault. The fact that 9/11 and Ft. Hood happened about the same time in each of their presidencies is irrelevant – Ft. Hood is Obama’s fault. And OK, there were a few more, but there were relatively small by comparison.

            It just blows my mind. Someone at that table, anyone, if they had any respect for the truth should have stood up immediately and tore her limb from limb for that statement. Instead, they chose to just continue ripping Obama. And then they get offended when they’re accused of being biased.

            (Disclaimer: Both sides do this. It’s just the current example)

            • v. Holland says:

              Maybe we hear differently-or read different things into what we hear based on what we believe or what we’ve heard people say on the same subject.-I just didn’t hear anyone say that the Ft. Hood attack was Obama’s fault just that he should call it a terrorist attack.

              • I’ve seen it around. Stuff like “he had months to address problems, but he allowed PC to override all else.” It’s certainly not the main take-away, but I thought I’d throw it in for good measure.

              • v. Holland says:

                Perhaps but we were talking about this specific video and a specific person who you wanted torn limb from limb 🙂 You must be careful of overreacting my friend it is really bad for your blood pressure and believe me life is just full of blood pressure raising events just wait until you have children 🙂 -Hope you and everyone else has a great Thanksgiving.

    • Hi Matt,,,if anything, you are entertaining….ummmm,,,since you seem to lean a little left…why not charge an entertainment tax?

      Happy T day, sir.

      D13

  10. Judy Sabatini says:

    Good Morning Everyone

    Will try and read as much as possible today, have a great deal to do for tomorrow.

    Charlie, good to see you back, was asking about you yesterday, and here you are today.

    Hope you all will have a good day today, and a great Thanksgiving tomorrow.

    Judy

  11. A Progressive Constitution

    By Larrey Anderson

    I don’t begrudge the progressive left its political power. They won. They are far from ashamed to say it, and I am not afraid to admit it. What I do mind is the left’s obvious neglect and disregard for the Constitution as it is written.

    If the left is going to change America, first they should change the basic rules set down to guide (and limit, and in some cases prevent) their proposed changes to our country’s laws and legal procedures. With that in mind, I have decided to put together a progressive guide for rewriting the Constitution.

    Most of the problems the left has with the Constitution are in the Bill of Rights. But let’s start with the body of the Constitution. The progressives need only make a couple of changes there. (My second recommended revision for the articles of the Constitution will come later.)

    Six changes are needed to give us a progressive Constitution. (In case I missed some progressive modifications, American Thinker readers are invited to add your proposed amendments to the Constitution in the comments section to this article.)

    Here are my six proposals:

    1) Article I, section 8 of the Constitution lists 17 specific powers granted to the Congress. Progressives believe that the “general welfare of the United States” clause, in the first line of section 8, gives congress power outside of its 17 enumerated powers. I don’t. I think the Constitution means what it says and says what it means.

    I have already shown that the general welfare clause of section 8 applies only to the day-to-day functioning of the federal government, and not to the citizens of the United States. But the left can fix all of that with one amendment:

    Article I, section 8 of the Constitution is hereby repealed. Article I, section 8 shall now read: “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States and the citizens of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/a_progressive_constitution.html

  12. Hi Everyone,

    I’m signing off as the cooking/baking commitments are calling me……

    Wishing you all a safe and bountiful Thanksgiving!

    Kathy

  13. PeterB in Indianapolis says:
    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      That article perversely makes me fervently hope that Palin wins in a landslide in 2012, not because it would necessarily be a good thing, but just so I could witness Taibbi’s apopleptic head explosion after he read the election results.

      It isn’t necessarily his facts I have a problem with in that article (most of them are probably pretty accurate), but just the incredibly megalomaniacal way he presents them makes me hope for his coming fits of apoplexy.

      Of course, a Palin Presidency might not necessarily be a good thing, but it can’t be any worse than GW Bush or BH Obama.

      • That, sir, is simply a failure of your imagination.

      • BTW, can I infer from that that you didn’t think Clinton (Bill) was so bad? ‘Cause I wasn’t too political in the 90’s, but I thought he was pretty decent.

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          Mathius,

          The combination of Clinton as President and fairly conservative Republicans running the Congress didn’t turn out too badly overall.

          I certainly wasn’t a huge fan of Clinton, but compared to anything we have had since, he wasn’t particularly horrible.

          As you know, I am not really in favor of “government” in general, so any measures which actually shrink the beast cannot be all bad.

          Also, any configuration which leads to gridlock is really nice.

          • FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!

            I actually would have voted for Hillary if she’d have said that she would just be a figurehead for Bill. I think a lot of people would have.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        I would sense that Taibbi knows that deep down inside he is the same asshole he writes about…

  14. Judy Sabatini says:

    Hi All

    Just popped in to say hi, and see how all is doing, hope all is doing well.

    Back to Thanksgiving work.

    Hey Charlie, if you’re still out there, making sauce, meatballs, and homemade ravioli for tomorrow, want to come for dinner? Be here by 5:30, dinner will be served then.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      Salad and garlic bread too, forgot to add that. Pumpkin pie for dessert. Just wanted to let you know if you’re interested.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Judy – you may have said this before – but again – when is it ‘sauce’ and when is it ‘gravy’?

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Hi Ray

        Not sure if you’ll see this, but I will try and say this again so you can understand.

        To me, gravy is something you put on your turkey, mashed potatoes , meatloaf or what have you. I have never heard anybody say, would you like more gravy on your spaghetti? It is, would you like more sauce on your spaghetti?

        In all my life, I have never heard spaghetti sauce referred to as gravy. I hope this clarifies it for you. But, then again, I guess it depends on what part of the country you’re from and what you call it.

        Hope you have a wonderful day today.

        Judy

  15. US treasury just announced that they’re no longer producing gold eagles.. now who could have seen this coming…….

    • 🙂

      • But you weren’t here then – that was warning #76

        • I thought you’d appreciate that..

          I’ve been here for 3 months and change.. wow how time flies..

          But I’m not worried about the collapse (should we start capitalizing that? The Collapse?). See, as I said above, I’m just crashing in your bunker at the first sign of trouble. I’ll earn my keep with labor, lively debate, vitamins (D and multi), and poker (though somehow I suspect you’re a better poker player than me..).

          • The Heritage Foundation has published a summary of a recent report from the Congressional Budget Office.

            Congress’s nonpartisan official “scorekeeper,” the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), was re­cently asked by Representative Paul Ryan (R–WI) to estimate the impact of raising marginal tax rates to pay for the projected huge increase in entitle­ment spending in future decades. The CBO con­cludes that:

            Marginal tax rates for every bracket, along with corporate tax rates, would need to more than double.

            These tax rates “would significantly reduce eco­nomic activity and create serious problems with tax avoidance and tax evasion,” and such rates “would probably not be economically feasible.”

            And, hearing how dangerous the situation is with the over-commitments on the budget, what is Congress’s response?

            To pass more entitlements.

            The People assume that Congress will be able to conjure a solution.

            Congress assumes the Federal Reserve will somehow conjure a solution.

            The Federal Reserve is overwhelmingly Keynesian. It assumes that Congress will someday bite the fiscal bullet and raise taxes.

            So, nothing is done.

            Soon, the FED will have its moment of truth: (1) sell half of its assets – T-bills and Toxic Debt (To whom? At what rate of interest?); (2) double the reserve requirement for commercial banks – inflicting the worse Depression in Global History; (3) allow triple-digit price inflation.

            Today, the bankers are retarding the recovery by not lending from their huge excess reserves. Even at a moderate rate of fractional reserve, they control over $6 trillion of potentially new debt entering the economy.

            Congress continues to pass new spending programs because this is easier than cutting spending.

            The slow, sick recovery offers more opportunities to centralize government control over the economy.

            Politicians are taking advantage of this. So the the FED.

            The public senses something is wrong.

            But they want to avoid pain in the present for the sake of less pain in the future. Thus, they are in full denial and there is no sense of urgency.

            This gives the rest of us time to prepare for the great contraction in the division of labor.

          • The government cannot pay its debt and also meet all of its promises. It must choose:

            1. Default on all of the debt
            2. Default on part of the debt
            3. Tell the central bank to inflate
            4. Raise taxes and cut expenditures

            Choice #3 starts the process over. The ultimate result: the destruction of the currency. This is default through inflation. It is nonetheless a default.

            Decide which way of default is most likely. Then decide when. Then plan accordingly.

            Or you can do what the policy-makers do.

            Nothing.

            Most of the people will do this.

    • Gold blew through $1190

      • Do you have a lookup table to decide which term to use for gold’s ascent? How do you determine when it “passes” versus “blows through” versus “goes above” versus “transcends”? Perhaps it just “eeked above $1190”? Or maybe it “rocked past $1190”? I demand a scientific approach to your terminology. Anything less is unacceptably vague.

        • Greater than $25/day gains is “blew through”
          Less than $1/day gains is “eeked”
          Between $5 and $10 a day, “passed”
          “Rocked past” will go with ‘Blew Through” if it is higher than $50/day. (ie: Gold blew through $2050 as it rocked past its previous high of $1989)

          Transcends – a permanent level as these are all new record highs.

          In other words, they are a subject measure of velocity of the delta plus of price. (Is that more scientific?)

  16. To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

    When life gives you lemons, cut them in half and squirt life in the eye!

    Faith may move mountains but it was the whip that built the pyramids.

    the internet… where women are men and 12 year old boys are FBI agents

    For Xmas I want Santa’s list of naughty girls.

    In a world full of women, you’re the man!

    I’m so confused I’m not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope

    coffee just isn’t my cup of tea

    I was going to procrastinate. But I decided to leave it till later.

    brb has lost all meaning… since when did brb mean “be back in 4 hours after lunch”

    When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I’m beginning to believe it

    • Warning #1, adult humor
      Warning #2, don’t drink while watching if you don’t like beer coming out your nose.

    • Canine Weapon says:

      If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might be, if they screamed all the time for no good reason.

      I’ve always had a deep seeded fear of clowns. I know it’s irrational, but it’s there anyway. After some concentrated soul searching, I’ve arrived the the opinion that it may have something to do with the time I was at the circus and a clown killed my father.

      Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you’re coming home, his face might burn up.

      Broken promises don’t upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?

      Children need encouragement. So if a kid gets an answer right, tell him it was a lucky guess. That way, he develops a good, lucky feeling.

      Mom always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died from tuberculosis.

      Even though he was an enemy of mine, I had to admit that what he had accomplished was a brilliant piece of strategy. First, he punched me, then he kicked me, then he punched me again.

      For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here’s a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?

      How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove, and it doesn’t have that dangerous beak.

    • Yeah, Right…

      I am a medical student currently doing a rotation in toxicology at the poison control center. Today, this woman called in very upset because she caught her little daughter eating ants. I quickly reassure her that the ants are not harmful and there would be no need to bring her daughter into the hospital. She calmed down, and at the end of the conversation happened to mention that she gave her daughter some ant poison to eat in order to kill the ants. I told her that she better bring her daughter in to the Emergency room right away.

      Seems that a year ago, some Boeing employees on the field decided to steal a life raft from one of the 747s. They were successful in getting it out of the plane and home. When they took it for a float on the River, they were quite surprised by a Coast Guard helicopter coming towards them. It turned out that the chopper was homing in on the emergency locator that is activated when the raft is inflated. They are no longer employed there.

      I worked for a while at a Wal-Mart store, selling sporting goods. As an employee of Wal-Mart you are sometimes required to make storewide pages, e.g.,”I have a customer in hardware who needs assistance at the paint counter.” One night a tentative female voice came over the intercom system with the (I kid you not) following message: “I have a customer by the balls in toys who needs assistance.”

      A police officer had a perfect hiding place for watching for speeders. But one day, everyone was under the speed limit, the officer found the problem: a 10 year old boy was standing on the side of the road with a huge hand painted sign which said “RADAR TRAP AHEAD.” A little more investigative work led the officer to the boy’s accomplice, another boy about 100 yards beyond the radar trap with a sign reading, “TIPS” and a bucket at his feet, full of change.

      A true story out of San Francisco: A man, wanting to rob a downtown Bank of America, walked into the branch and wrote “this iz a stikkup. Put all your muny in this bag.” While standing in line, waiting to give his note to the teller, he began to worry that someone had seen him write the note and might call the police before he reached the teller window. So he left the Bank of America and crossed the street to Wells Fargo. After waiting a few minutes in line, he handed his note to the Wells Fargo teller. She read it and, surmising from his spelling errors that he wasn’t the brightest light in the harbor, told him that she could not accept his stickup note because it was written on a Bank of America deposit slip and that he would either have to fill out a Wells Fargo deposit slip or go back to Bank of America. Looking somewhat defeated, the man said “OK” and left. The Wells Fargo teller then called the police who arrested the man a few minutes later, as he was waiting in line back at Bank of America.

      A motorist was unknowingly caught in an automated speed trap that measured his speed using radar and photographed his car. He later received in the mail a ticket for $40 and a photo of his car. Instead of payment, he sent the police department a photograph of $40. Several days later, he received a letter from the police that contained another picture – of handcuffs.

      A woman was reporting her car as stolen, and mentioned that there was a car phone in it. The policeman taking the report called the phone and told the guy that answered that he had read the ad in the newspaper and wanted to buy the car. They arranged to meet, and the thief was arrested.

      Drug Possession Defendant Christopher Jansen, on trial in March in Pontiac, Michigan, said he had been searched without a warrant. The prosecutor said the officer didn’t need a warrant because a “bulge” in Christopher’s jacket could have been a gun. Nonsense, said Christopher, who happened to be wearing the same jacket that day in court. He handed it over so the judge could see it. The judge discovered a packet of cocaine in the pocket and laughed so hard he required a five minute recess to compose himself.

      Oklahoma City: Dennis Newton was on trial for the armed robbery of a convenience store in a district court when he fired his lawyer. Assistant district attorney Larry Jones said Newton, 47, was doing a fair job of defending himself until the store manager testified that Newton was the robber. Newton jumped up, accused the woman of lying and then said, “I should have blown your (expletive) head off.” The defendant paused, then quickly added, “if I’d been the one that was there.” The jury took 20 minutes to convict Newton and recommended a 30 year sentence.

      R.C. Gaitlan, 21, walked up to two patrol officers who were showing their squad car computer equipment to children in a Detroit neighborhood. When he asked how the system worked, the officer asked him for identification. Gaitlan gave them his drivers license, they entered it into the computer, and moments later they arrested Gaitlan because information on the screen showed Gaitlan was wanted for a two year old armed robbery in St. Louis, Missouri.

      Guy walked into a little corner store with a shotgun and demanded all the cash from the cash drawer. After the cashier put the cash in a bag, the robber saw a bottle of scotch that he wanted behind the counter on the shelf. He told the cashier to put it in the bag as well, but he refused and said “Because I don’t believe you are over 21.” The robber said he was, but the clerk still refused to give it to him because he didn’t believe him. At this point the robber took his drivers license out of his wallet and gave it to the clerk. The clerk looked it over, and agreed that the man was in fact over 21 and he put the scotch in the bag. The robber then ran from the store with his loot. The cashier promptly called the police and gave the name and address of the robber that he got off the license. They arrested the robber two hours later.

      A pair of Michigan robbers entered a record shop nervously waving revolvers. The first one shouted, “Nobody move!” When his partner moved, the startled first bandit shot him.

    • Firm Grasp of the Obvious

      Study Finds Sex, Pregnancy Link
      – Cornell Daily Sun, December 7, 1995

      Whatever Their motives, Moms Who Kill Kids still Shock Us
      – Holland Sentinal, date unknown.

      Survey Finds Dirtier Subways After Cleaning Jobs Were Cut
      – The New York Times, November 22

      Larger Kangaroos Leap Farther, Researchers Find
      – The Los Angeles Times, November 2

      ‘Light’ meals are lower in fat, calories
      – Huntington Herald-Dispatch, November 30

      Alcohol ads promote drinking
      – The Hartford Courant, November 18

      Malls try to attract shoppers
      – The Baltimore Sun, October 22

      Official: Only rain will cure drought
      – The Herald-News, Westpost, Massachusetts

      Teen-age girls often have babies fathered by men
      – The Sunday Oregonian, September 24

      Low Wages Said Key to Poverty
      – Newsday, July 11

      Man shoots neighbor with machete
      – The Miami Herald, July 3

      Tomatoes come in big, little, medium sizes
      – The Daily Progress, Charlottesville, Virginia, March 30

      Dirty-Air Cities Far Deadlier Than Clean Ones, Study Shows
      – The New York Times, March 10

      Man Run Over by Freight Train Dies
      – The Los Angeles Times, March 2

      Scientists see quakes in L.A. future
      – The Oregonian, January 28

      Wachtler tells graduates that life in jail is demeaning
      – The Buffalo News, February 26

      Free Advice: Bundle up when out in the cold
      – Lexington Herald-Leader, January 26

      Prosecution paints O.J. as a wife-killer
      – Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, January 25

      Economist uses theory to explain economy
      – Collinsville Herald-Journal, February 8

      Bible church’s focus is the Bible
      – Saint Augustine Record, Florida, December 3, 1994

      Clinton pledges restraint in use of nuclear weapons
      – Cedar Rapids Gazette, April 6

      Discoveries: Older blacks have edge in longevity
      – The Chicago Tribune, March 5

      Court Rules Boxer Shorts Are Indeed Underwear
      – Journal of Commerce, April 20

      Biting nails can be sign of tenseness in a person
      – The Daily Gazette of Schenectady, New York, May 2

      Lack of brains hinders research
      – The Columbus Dispatch, April 16

      How we feel about ourselves is the core of self-esteem, says author Louise Hart
      – Boulder, Colorado, Sunday Camera, February 5

      Fish lurk in streams
      – Rochester, New York, Democrat & Chronicle, January 29

      • Pregnant Turkey

        I wish I had thought of this – I’m still laughing

        One year at Thanksgiving, my mom went to my sister’s house for the traditional feast. Knowing how gullible my sister is, my mom decided to play a trick.

        She told my sister that she needed something from the store. When my sister left, my mom took the turkey out of the oven, removed the stuffing, stuffed a Cornish hen,and inserted it into the turkey, and re-stuffed the turkey. She then placed the birds back in the oven.

        When it was time for dinner, my sister pulled the turkey out of the oven and proceeded to remove the stuffing. When her serving spoon hit something, she reached in and pulled out the little bird. With a look of total shock on her face, my mother exclaimed, “Patricia, you’ve cooked a pregnant bird!” At the reality of this horrifying news, my sister started to cry.It took the family two hours to convince her that turkeys lay eggs!
        Yep……………..SHE’S BLONDE!

      • Thanksgiving Divorce

        An elderly man in Phoenix calls his son in New York and says,
        “I hate to ruin your day, but I have to tell you that your mother
        and I are divorcing; forty-five years of misery is enough.”

        “Pop, what are you talking about,” the son screams.
        “We can’t stand the sight of each other any longer,” the old
        man says.
        “We’re sick and tired of each other, and I’m sick of
        talking about this,
        so you call your sister in Chicago and tell her.” And he
        hangs up.

        Frantic, the son calls his sister, who explodes on the
        phone.
        “Like Heck they’re getting a divorce, she shouts. “I’ll
        take care of this.”

        She calls Phoenix immediately, and screams at the old man,
        “You are NOT getting divorced! Don’t do a single thing until I get
        there. I’m calling my brother back and we’ll both be there tomorrow.

        Until then don’t do a thing,
        DO YOU HEAR ME?” And she hangs up.

        The old man hangs up his phone, smiles and turns to his wife.
        “They’re coming for Thanksgiving and paying their own way.”

      • SAYINGS YOU CAN ONLY GET AWAY WITH ON THANKSGIVING:

        1. Talk about a huge breast!

        2. Tying the legs together keeps the inside moist.

        3. It’s Cool Whip time!

        4. If I don’t undo my pants, I’ll burst!

        5. Whew, that’s one terrific spread!

        6. I’m in the mood for a little dark meat.

        7. Are you ready for seconds yet?

        8. It’s a little dry, do you still want to eat it?

        9. Just wait your turn, you’ll get some!

        10. Don’t play with your meat.

        11. Just spread the legs open
        and stuff it in.

        12. Do you think you’ll be able to handle all these people at once?

        13. I didn’t expect everyone to come at once!

        14. You still have a little bit on your chin.

        15. How long will it take after you stick it in?

        16. You’ll know it’s ready when it pops up.

        17. Wow, I didn’t think I could handle all of that!

        18. That’s the biggest one I’ve ever seen!

        19. How long do I beat it before it’s ready

        G’Nite all, Happy Turkey day.

      • The best one I’ve ever seen is “Attractive women found to arouse men”

        I did not know that. Good thing a study was commissioned to demonstrate this phenomenon.

  17. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Happy Thanksgiving all! I will be travelling to the land of the Cheese-heads to spend some time with my parents. Since my wife and kids actually really like my parents, they are coming as well 🙂

    See you all next week.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      I think she’s secretly in love with him. YUCK! COUGH! COUGH! BARF! Turns my stomach.

      • Bottom Line says:

        I’ll die laughing if the next big scandal is Oprah and Obama getting caught doing the naughty in the oval office.

        • Judy Sabatini says:

          HI BL

          When I was at CVS the other night, there was this guy who was reading one of those gossip papers, and it said that Obama’s gay lover threatens to tell all. Makes you wonder. I had all I could do to keep my composure.

          Just thought I’d pass that along.

        • “I did not have sex with that woman…..that Oprah person”

          Can you only imagine angry Michelle? Of course, in Hillary fashion, it would just be a vast, right-wing conspiracy anyway.

  18. You gotta love “progressive” California. A 10% payroll tax being installed to pay for deficits to be repaid by……tax credits in withholding tax breaks.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      WHAT???????????????

    • Bottom Line says:

      Mexi-fornia is out of it’s freakin mind. It never ceases to amaze me, the level of senseless illogical stupidity that is displayed by people in this state.

      Rob Peter to give Paul money to pay Peter back. WTF kinda sense does that make?

      Sigh —

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        That’s as bad as one night here G-Man was telling me that the government has to get a new printing machine so they can print more money. I said that made no sense to me. The government has to spend money to make a printing machine so they can print more money. Go figure.

        • Bottom Line says:

          …as if they’re not devaluing the dollar fast enough already.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            Yeah!, I noticed it keeps going down by the day. It’s only a matter of time before the dollar isn’t worth anything.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            Have a great Thanksgiving BL, and NO, you didn’t leave me hanging, no apology necessary, I know things can be and get hectic around this time.

            Hope to see you here Friday.

            Judy

            • Bottom Line says:

              Lol.

              I had to run an errand. I’ll be cooking a turkey here soon.

              I wish you a happy T-day too Judy.

              Enjoy!

  19. I would like to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!!

    While times are tough and looking to get worse, I certainly have many things to be thankful for. You are all parts of the good things that make thankfullness a reality.

    God Bless!

    G!

  20. Ray Hawkins says:

    Moved from above…..

    Cyndi said –

    “Thanks for the travel tips, but I’m WAAY ahead of you. In any case its a sad state of affairs in a nation when veterans like me are told to go to hell by people who haven’t so much as put their money where their mouth is by serving in the military.”

    I haven’t told you to go to hell – I think maybe you’ve helped create your own – largely supported by tremendous self-loathing and misplaced hatred.

    “I served in the Army so you could party in college. Thanks lot ingrate.”

    I am sorry Cyndi – but I will not allow you the satisfaction of making such an idiotic statement. You’ll need to do a better job of demonstrating how/why your service paved my way for college. I appreciate that you supposedly served your country – I say supposedly because I’m not certain where truth and fiction separate for you – to be clear – I attended a small college in PA for four years b/n 1989 and 1993. I paid my entire way through college and worked a full time job my last 2.5 years in school. I never took a cent from anyone – especially you. More recently I have paid my own way through an MBA program and am half way through a PhD program. I do this so I can better myself, so I can advance my field and so I can teach. You can sleep well knowing that you had absoltely nothing to do with this. Oh – the “partying part” – I enjoyed that low blow. But since I’m all about disclosure – sure – I partied in school. I partied my ass off and enjoyed every minute of it. This scumbag liberal went to college, grew his hair, followed the Grateful Dead, protested Gulf War I, joined hands with other tree huggers screaming “Give Peace a Chance” and liberally exercised the rights my government said I have (hope this doesn’t give you a stroke Cyndi). Then – to make matters better – I shaved my head – joined a frat and then spend ample time 3-4-5 nights a week guzzling cheap beer, getting in fights, and chasing all the groupie girls that stupidly treated us as gods (Oooops, another stroke for Cyndi). Then, I grew the hell up and “partying” meant sharing a beer with my future wife as we grew closer. FTR – I was one physical away from being a career military man – my life’s dream was to go to West Point and learn life’s lessons in what I thought would be the hard way (I have still learned many things the hard way). There was no sense in me taking a physical West Point had already told me I would fail – I decided then that there were other plans for me.

    “You’ll be glad to know that tax paying people of means are already heading for the exits. I personally know of several others, and have read reports of the begining exodus.”

    I am a tax paying person of means. I am not looking for the exit. Maybe others are – let them – its their choice.

    “So be careful what you wish for.”

    How do you know what I wish for Cyndi? I generally don’t make wishes. I set goals and then work my ass off towards them.

    “You and YOUR ilk need those geese to lay the golden eggs. How else do you think you’ll fund you communist utopia?”

    I don’t need any golden eggs – you clearly misunderstand me. I am taking a class now entitled “Dark Leadership” – it is a combo class of leaderhip, management, organization and psychology. My subject? Joseph Stalin. I am currently feeding myself a heavy diet of Robert Conquest – great stuff. Not something you’d find such an avid Communist as I reading though.

    Oh – another thing – how about you share who you work for Cyndi? Wouldn’t be the good old Federal Government now would it? Maybe not directly – but based on your locale and prior postings I am guessing you work for a government contractor. How does it taste to bite the Commnuist hand that is feeding you? Tastes good doesn’t it? Must be nice to whine and bitch about the shitty bloated Federal government that is signing your paycheck isn’t it? So, for the record – I work my ass off so you can have a job eh? You’re welcome.

    “Have you noticed, or has anyone noticed, than Birthers receive as much scorn as the Deniers? Well, how have things turned out for the Global Warming Believers? OOPPS, it seems the Deniers now have evidence of massive fraud. I’d be very careful Ray, because the Birthers you scorn, seem to have evidence of Obama’s Kenyan Birth. Now, if they could just get a judge to admit it into evidence.”

    You mistakenly assume again that I am a Global Warming nuthugger – I am not. I bought Al Gore’s latest book tonight so I can see what insanity he is preaching now. As for birthers – trust that I will not hold my breath Cyndi. I cannot wait to see the next conspiracy angle ya’ll are going to take. Its like bad theater now – only you don’t realize you are one of the actors. So go ahead – prove me wrong.

    “As always, it was very enlighting to see the depths of your foolishiness. Have a great day tomorrow and don’t choke on anything.”

    Thanks Cyndi – you’re like my favorite hate toy – wind you up and see what crazy things you’ll say. And thanks for thinking of my health tomorrow. I appreciate the concern. I’ll chew up all my organic, low carbon footprint food as best as I can and ensure I do not choke.

  21. Hey Ray,

    I must have hit a nerve! I’m not sending you my DD214, and I’m so happy that you’re busting ass working, reading and schooling. Damn right I’m living off the government. I’m living off the big fat bloated government that YOU want more of. So keep on busting your ass and supporting a massive government. I’ll keep working INCOME TAX FREE, courstesy of YOUR voting. Keep at it fool. Did you know I live in a private room with full bathroom, pay only for my phone with FREE internet access, I eat for free, and I haven’t paid federal income tax for the last two years. By opposing Obama I’ve been trying to reduce YOUR tax burden. But since you won’t have that, you can just keep slaving away for Obama’s massive government, and I’ll keep taking the money, chump.

    • Cindy,

      Eat them alive!!

      Many good cheers!

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        You disappoint me Flag – this person has shown themselves to be no different than the person who gleefully votes for more government expansion because they have learned how to jackpot the system – then turns around and bitches about what a bad system it is. These are not people I applaud – these are people I despise with every ounce of my being. I’ve met the folks who are on their 9th or 10th kid and know full well how to work the system so they never have to be responsible or accountable for their own actions. They love the system yet will be the first to bitch about bad service, delayed government checks or any other inconvenience that affects their ability to live off the government tit. I see this poster as no different from them.

        • I understand your sentiment.

          Try understanding mine. It is complex.

          The monster is large and consuming.
          And a mouse chews at its hang nails.

          Do you really think I’m concerned with the mouse getting fat??

          There is a HUGE difference between someone knowing what they do, and some one who does not.

          I, personally, would eat off government at any time I could – while avoiding being eaten by it.

          I would do so, because every dollar it doesn’t have and is in my hands is one less dollar making death and destruction of innocent lives.

          Cindy, though misguided in many matters, is wholly innocent if by least, the plea to ignorance.

          I mean, she still believes in voting! But she voted in the firm belief that she was NOT enriching herself.

          I struggle often with good souls that seek salvation in their actions by dancing with the Devil. They believe that somehow the system will allow a change to the system. You’ve read many arguments -because that is what they were- with Cyndi any myself over this and many other topics.

          But I do not condemn anyone, earning the bread and shelter for themselves and family, having to dance for the pleasure of the devil.

          So be it.

          The alternative is too harsh for most people – who can stand watching family suffer? I urge choosing better – but why die a futile death if that is the cost? How could anyone condemn a Faustian choice that would save the suffering of loved ones?

          By the grace of God go I.

          That is often my motto. I got lucky I was where I was when I was, alone, to make choices that were principled. I don’t have to repeat the stories of what it cost me – it cost me everything.

          But if I had a family or dependents – how possibly could I have committed them to share the same horrific suffering I had to endure?

          Because I did not have to face that choice, I hold the bravery of the untested.

          So, who has the right to question those who have to make that choice?

          Most certainly, not me.

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            Hmmmm – I must be all flagged up……

            IF the monster, by means of ‘theft’ or ‘violence’ takes from me or anyone else and gives to you – you must take therefore to receive. That you would acknowledge the original transaction as theft/evil/violence – it does not become legitimized regardless of your intended end use of the product of the original transaction. I may need a car to transport my family – perhaps I buy that I KNOW is stolen. Even if I buy the car – it is still stolen.

            “because every dollar it doesn’t have and is in my hands is one less dollar making death and destruction of innocent lives.”

            Do you care not how that dollar was obtained? If it was ‘stolen’ from someone else it is still stolen. As you may legitimize the theft for one seemingly legitimate purpose, how judge you what one or others deem as legitimate? If by the grace of God we are all Gods children how reconcile you that one member of that family is less deserving than another?

            “Cindy, though misguided in many matters, is wholly innocent if by least, the plea to ignorance.”

            – she is not wholly innocent – she acknowledged as much.

            Sorry to not go light this morning. Enjoy your day my friend. Will check in later…..

            • Hmmmm – I must be all flagged up……

              No, you’re just good’ol Ray 🙂

              That you would acknowledge the original transaction as theft/evil/violence – it does not become legitimized regardless of your intended end use of the product of the original transaction. I may need a car to transport my family – perhaps I buy that I KNOW is stolen. Even if I buy the car – it is still stolen.

              All true – but the choice is easy.

              Money is not a car. One of the characteristics of a car, and is exactly the opposite characteristic of money is identification of ownership.

              Money is used to anonymous transactions because it cannot be easily traced.

              Cars are rarely untraceable – and if they are not, is a sure sign it is stolen.

              So, stealing a that is not mine back from a thief is moral – but I cannot claim the car to be mine – by the nature of the car.

              But stealing money back from a thief is moral too – but I probably can claim it as the owner. There is my money stuck ‘in there somewhere’ – so it doesn’t matter what particular unit I get back, it doesn’t matter.

              If I get more than I put in, that’s ok too. The important thing is that the thief does not get it.

              “because every dollar it doesn’t have and is in my hands is one less dollar making death and destruction of innocent lives.”

              Do you care not how that dollar was obtained?

              I do know how it was obtained. It was stolen or counterfeited. There is no other way.

              I also know how it will be used – to inflict harm and suffering.

              If it was ’stolen’ from someone else it is still stolen. As you may legitimize the theft for one seemingly legitimate purpose, how judge you what one or others deem as legitimate?

              Because I hack at the root cause at the same time.

              I deny money to the devil so it cannot use that money to harm; I would take money from the devil so it cannot use that money to harm and urge everyone else to do the same.

              I am NOT marching on government demanding it give me more things. I resist government from taking more things.

              Now, if I was a voter, demanding government bailouts or for it to ‘do something’ or kill something – then your complaint would have merit.

              But you know I’m not that type of guy 🙂

              If by the grace of God we are all Gods children how reconcile you that one member of that family is less deserving than another?

              God sees no one having any less of God than anyone else.

              Each gets the same laws of gravity proportioned precisely equal, same quantum, same seconds in an hour, same ellipse path around the sun, etc.

              Any perception of “deserving” is wholly a human construct and infinitely petty to God.

              “Cindy, though misguided in many matters, is wholly innocent if by least, the plea to ignorance.”

              – she is not wholly innocent – she acknowledged as much.

              Maybe, maybe not – but I am not her judge.

              Sorry to not go light this morning. Enjoy your day my friend. Will check in later…..

              You never need to apologize for playing your “A” game with me.

          • Black Flag,

            You said: I mean, she still believes in voting

            I’m beginning to to see the futility of voting. Does this make me slightly less misguided? 🙂

            You said: why die a futile death

            Exactly!

            • “slightly less misguided”

              That probably was too harsh a word – but that was all I had in my brain at the time.

              And, yes, the closer we see the world for what it is, the better decisions we make.

              • That’s okay Flag. I know that I have an uncanny ablity to bring out the ‘best’ in people! LOL!

                How’s your Thanksgiving going? Are you feeling better?

      • Thanks Flag,

        You have a great Thanksgiving!

        I’m looking forward to the big feast that’s being fixed for us. All you can eat, for FREE! Thanks America!!!

        Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. Ray made me do it! LOL!!

        🙂

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Sorry Cyndi – my nerves are all good. You are mistaken if you think I simply want more government no matter the cost. My three E’s will always hold true – effectiveness, efficiency and economy – and we are nowhere near that today or the forseeable future (which by the way means you and I actually agree on more things than you think). I am glad the true you can finally come out – in engaging the ‘man behind the curtain’ (you) others can see where your morals actually play out. If your constant carping on Kenyan birth certificates and massive liberal conspriracies are your weird way of reducing my tax burden then no thanks – you make great theater – but parsing false altruism in the midst of a sanctimonious screed wins you no points – it just shows the evil in your views. If you’re so concerned about my tax burden then quit your job – just set up a forwarding address so my thank you card can reach you.

      And so – you still have not answered my question regarding what in the world your President Obama has to do with three Seals being investigated for prisoner abuse that was reported by their own colleagues. I’ll wait – but I won’t hold my breath – I’ve learned with you that when pressed for facts you run down every available rabbit trail because you cannot back up what you say.

      Please do tell Cyndi. Please do tell.

      • Ray,

        I did not vote for your president. I do not support big government, but since so many people like yourself insist on supporting Obama and his party, you deserve what you get. I no longer have simpathy for anyone who supports Obama. This doesn’t make me evil. Its resignation. Then why do I fight it? Because there are many people who don’t deserve it. I do not pretend to altruism. There’s a slim chance that those of us who are opposed to Obama and what he’s creating, will be able to stop it, though that’s getting harder to believe with each passing day.

        I remember receiving similar contempt for being a Denier, and now the truth is out. I don’t consider the Birthers any more deranged than the Deniers. If your president and his supporters REALLY wanted to put an end to it, they would let the court case proceed, and show all the documents in question. And don’t give me the cop out of ‘well nobody would be believe it any way and they’d just find something else to harp about’. If your really felt that way, then you wouldn’t be so keen on civilian trials for terrorists. Once the circus is over, I’m sure the terrorists will still have their complaints and probably a few more. In which case, the trials should be handled by the military. Any way, back to your complaint about what sort of person I really am. If it were in my power to reduce the federal government, and restore personal liberty, I would do it in a minute. But that isn’t going happen. I now have the same attitude as one of the people with 9 or 10 children that you mentioned above, but I put in a forty hour week and more when required. Reducing the federal government isn’t likely to end the requiremnt for someone in my specialty. So since I can’t beat ’em, I may as well make the most of it. People like YOU could put an end to it, but you insist on doing it your way. Fine. You be sure to enjoy what you get in tax burden and BS government policies, because I’m going to make the most of a situation I cannot change.

        One more time for your super educated mind, Ray. Your president is alledged to have great leaderdship abilities. With a simple glance at his teleprompter he could state, that all our security personnel are to be given the benefit of the doubt in all but the most air tight cases. Its very similar to the way terrorists are currently given the benefit of the doubt. Get it? I can’t make it any simpler than than.

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          “I did not vote for your president. ”

          – Legally he is also your President

          “I do not support big government,”

          – neither do I

          “but since so many people like yourself insist on supporting Obama and his party, you deserve what you get.”

          – I voted for him – that does not compel me to support him on any/everything

          “I no longer have simpathy for anyone who supports Obama.”

          – I don’t think they want your sympathy

          “This doesn’t make me evil. Its resignation.”

          – Give your self more credit – you aren’t resigning anything, merely acknowledging your own thoughts and conclusions

          “Then why do I fight it? Because there are many people who don’t deserve it. I do not pretend to altruism. There’s a slim chance that those of us who are opposed to Obama and what he’s creating, will be able to stop it, though that’s getting harder to believe with each passing day.”

          – I don’t agree – IF – eveytime he comes to the plate he swings for the fences any failure will be amplified – and rightly so. Don’t be fooled into thinking that everone who voted for him agrees with everything he does/makes.

          “I remember receiving similar contempt for being a Denier, and now the truth is out. I don’t consider the Birthers any more deranged than the Deniers. If your president and his supporters REALLY wanted to put an end to it, they would let the court case proceed,”

          – POTUS has nothing to do with the Court case

          “and show all the documents in question.”

          – there are no documents in question

          “And don’t give me the cop out of ‘well nobody would be believe it any way and they’d just find something else to harp about’.”

          – Sound like JFK all over again Cyndi – to believe this birther nonsense you’d have to believe in a conspiracy of absolutely astronimcal and incomprehensible size – one that would have to have started before he was born. So why would I expect you to believe anything contrary to your convictions now?

          “If your really felt that way, then you wouldn’t be so keen on civilian trials for terrorists.”

          – You are making no sense to me

          “Once the circus is over, I’m sure the terrorists will still have their complaints and probably a few more.”

          – Who cares? They’ll complain either way.

          “In which case, the trials should be handled by the military.”

          – Because that means they won’t complain? Huh?

          “Any way, back to your complaint about what sort of person I really am. If it were in my power to reduce the federal government, and restore personal liberty, I would do it in a minute.”

          – Agree 1000%

          “But that isn’t going happen.”

          – I believe it will – just not soon enough for the liking of most and may be painful for many.

          “I now have the same attitude as one of the people with 9 or 10 children that you mentioned above,”

          – That’s very sad

          “but I put in a forty hour week and more when required.”

          – Join the crowd

          “Reducing the federal government isn’t likely to end the requirement for someone in my specialty.”

          – I don’t know what you do – but generally I would disagree – I am very very familiar with many gov contractors – often they are run by ex-military people that know how to jackpot the system and convince everyone that “it” cannot be done organically. It isn’t that they can’t – it is that they won’t

          “So since I can’t beat ‘em, I may as well make the most of it.”

          – The end justifies the means eh? If I see a band of looters and I cannot stop them I still will not join them.

          “People like YOU could put an end to it, but you insist on doing it your way.”

          – And what is my way Cyndi? It sure as hell isn’t saying “piss on it, I’ll renounce my citizenship and move to f’ing New Zealand”. Come my way friend – you’ll see me at the local township and school board meetings.

          “Fine. You be sure to enjoy what you get in tax burden and BS government policies, because I’m going to make the most of a situation I cannot change.”

          – How ironic – now I understand the concept of the human turkey vulture – picking off the carcasses of a trainwreck she knew was coming and had no interest in trying to stop it.

          “One more time for your super educated mind,”

          – I am not super edcuated Cyndi – I just try harder than most people. My education does not come easily.

          “Ray. Your president is alledged to have great leaderdship abilities.”

          – Agreed – he is alleged to be many things….

          “With a simple glance at his teleprompter he could state, that all our security personnel are to be given the benefit of the doubt in all but the most air tight cases.”

          – I will not agree or disagree with you – I simply ask that whatever process they are to be investigated and possibly charged under, then that process is followed to a T. I am pretty “benefit of the doubt” isn’t part of the vernacular but I could be wrong. One does not know if a case is airtight until they can properly investigate it.

          “Its very similar to the way terrorists are currently given the benefit of the doubt. Get it? I can’t make it any simpler than than.”

          – No – I don’t think you get it. Alleged terrorists are not given ‘the benefit of the doubt’ – they have been and are and will be prosecuted under well established guidelines and process.

          • Ray,

            Legally Obama may be my president but I will not give him the repect you seem to think I should. I’m sure you were okay with the Dixie Chicks trashing President Bush while they were on stage in London, so I figure that as long as don’t bring my views to an international audience of that size, complete with television coverage, I’m at least as respectable as any Bush hater, and I’d appreciate if you’d show me the same respect you’d show the Dixie Chicks, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, etc., thank you very much. At the end of the day, it matters not one bit. You may not support all his policies, but you will suffer under them anyway. Some of us, saw right through the facade, and knew what he is BEFORE the election. We knew that having him in office would be bad for everyone. Its probably a good thing you and your fellow believers don’t want sympathy, because you most likely won’t be getting it. In fact, you’ll probably be on the receiving end of some hostility if things get bad enough. Obama voters were warned about him, and not only did they choose not to listen and consider, they smeared anyone who carried the message, as a racist, and in many cases, something much worse. The collective YOU will be held accountable, and probably the personal you, as well.

            As for the Birther issue you seem to have. All I’m saying, again, is lets take it to court and find out for certain one way or another, just like you want to do with terrorists. Speaking of which, if Major Hansan, wasn’t given the benefit of the doubt, how do you explain his being in a position to shoot thirty people while on military base and yelling Allu Akbar?

            I’m quite impressed by the human turkey vulture comparision and that I do nothing to stop the train wreck your presdident is creating. Why do you think I want the Birthers to have their day in court just like any terrorist? What are you so afraid of? If you’re correct about the Birthers, you and your Chosen One have nothing to worry about. I recall that the AGW perps behaved the same way. It seems they had some thing to hide after all. I’m sure it doesn’t make you think, but it makes me suspect that there may be some validity to the Birthers claims. There’s only one way to find out. Take it to court.

            I’d say my job specialty is more secure than some. True, I work for a government contractor, and if your president succeeds in destroying the economy or ending national defense completely, I’ll probably be out of work. Of course, the much hated Military-Industrial Complex is in bed, so to speak, with politicians, and so long as there’s a dime to be made off the tax payers, the pols and the Complex will continue to do business. They will also keep throwing scraps to the scum of American society, you know, folks just like me, who will continue to lick it up like porn movie starlets. So you just keep on believing that the Dems and Obama are goodness and light, and the the Republicans are stupid racists. And keep paying those ever increasing taxes. I need the money so I can fuck-off to NZ when the whole thing implodes on your tax paying head.

            • Ray Hawkins says:

              “Legally Obama may be my president but I will not give him the repect you seem to think I should.”

              – Never asked you to respect him Cyndi.

              “I’m sure you were okay with the Dixie Chicks trashing President Bush while they were on stage in London,”

              – Full quote you refer to is ‘Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas.’ – I never read that as trashing President Bush – they were offering their opinion which, same as you, they had the opp/privilege to do so.

              “so I figure that as long as don’t bring my views to an international audience of that size, complete with television coverage, I’m at least as respectable as any Bush hater,”

              – All I’m asking is you back up what you say which you have a really hard time doing without going off the deep end.

              “and I’d appreciate if you’d show me the same respect you’d show the Dixie Chicks, Rachel Maddow, Olberman, etc., thank you very much.”

              – Why do you assume I respect them and why do assume my respect is so easily given/taken?

              “At the end of the day, it matters not one bit. You may not support all his policies, but you will suffer under them anyway.”

              – You are right.

              “Some of us, saw right through the facade, and knew what he is BEFORE the election. We knew that having him in office would be bad for everyone.”

              – Time will tell.

              “Its probably a good thing you and your fellow believers don’t want sympathy, because you most likely won’t be getting it.”

              – You again assume I am some Obama plant or nuthugger. I am not.

              “In fact, you’ll probably be on the receiving end of some hostility if things get bad enough. Obama voters were warned about him, and not only did they choose not to listen and consider,”

              – Maybe – but I’d ask you to clarify – if I am going to be on the ‘receiving end’ who is on the giving end?

              “they smeared anyone who carried the message, as a racist, and in many cases, something much worse.”

              – Baiting again Cyndi. It is too easy and callous and lazy to throw such an accusation.

              “The collective YOU will be held accountable, and probably the personal you, as well.”

              – Again – you’re being a coward Cyndi. “I will be personally held accountable?” WTF is that supposed to mean?

              “As for the Birther issue you seem to have. All I’m saying, again, is lets take it to court and find out for certain one way or another, just like you want to do with terrorists.”

              – There is no issue here Cyndi. Taking this further acknowledges the insanity of the entire issue – it legitimizes the conspiracy theory which should not and will not happen.

              “Speaking of which, if Major Hansan, wasn’t given the benefit of the doubt, how do you explain his being in a position to shoot thirty people while on military base and yelling Allu Akbar?”

              – I’ll let the facts play out as they may. If those things are shown to be true it is simply showing again, as is so common in the military and business that people that are supposed to make the hard decisions fail to do so because they lack the will to do so.

              “I’m quite impressed by the human turkey vulture comparision”

              – Thanks – it wasn’t hard to think of

              “and that I do nothing to stop the train wreck your presdident is creating.”

              – Threatening to vote yourself off the island doesn’t help the team Cyndi.

              “Why do you think I want the Birthers to have their day in court just like any terrorist?”

              – You merely want to de-legitimize a legally elected President of the United States – why? Hell that is anyone’s best guess. Ask yourself if you’re the type of person that enjoys driving the car with the windows down and the AC on (or any other similar asinine endeavor).

              “What are you so afraid of?”

              – Nothing. Because there is no issue here.

              “If you’re correct about the Birthers, you and your Chosen One have nothing to worry about.”

              – I am correct about the Birthers in that they are a cancer to society. Ignoring this cancer is the best treatment.

              “I recall that the AGW perps behaved the same way. It seems they had some thing to hide after all. I’m sure it doesn’t make you think, but it makes me suspect that there may be some validity to the Birthers claims. There’s only one way to find out. Take it to court.”

              – I don’t know all the supposed facts being thrown around as you seem to on this. But I guess based on your logic there are loads and loads of conspiracy theories that are all true. Maybe Obama really is an extraterrestial lizard.

              “I’d say my job specialty is more secure than some. True, I work for a government contractor, and if your president succeeds in destroying the economy or ending national defense completely, I’ll probably be out of work. Of course, the much hated Military-Industrial Complex is in bed, so to speak, with politicians, and so long as there’s a dime to be made off the tax payers, the pols and the Complex will continue to do business. They will also keep throwing scraps to the scum of American society, you know, folks just like me, who will continue to lick it up like porn movie starlets.”

              – So long as you acknowledge that your pretzel logic places you morally somewhere lower than the dried dogshit in the soles of my work boots then we’re good.

              “So you just keep on believing that the Dems and Obama are goodness and light, and the the Republicans are stupid racists.”

              – You need help Cyndi – you’re running only on emotion now. I do not believe in the goodness and light – I merely ask people to get it right. And I do not believe Republicans are stupid racists – those are your words which leads me to think you have some issues with your own views on race. But only you can answer that issue.

              “And keep paying those ever increasing taxes.”

              – I do, but I also make honest effort to do something about it.

              “I need the money so I can fuck-off to NZ”

              – Well put Cyndi. Its your own hateful self you have to look at in the mirror each day. If you’re okay with that image than don’t let that door hit you in the arse…………

              “when the whole thing implodes on your tax paying head.”

              – Good conclusion Cyndi. I’ll take the pain of putting in the hard work and trying to change things locally where I can. And if ‘it’ doesn’t work we’ll try something else. I do not believe things will implode – things may get far worse before better – but I am not building my bunker and I know I’ll keep trying to get it right and not piss on the whole thing so I can ass out and blame everyone else for my perception of how shitty everything is. Anyone who has read here a while knows that you have some shit sandwiches in your day. But you know what Cyndi? We’ve all eaten some shit sandwiches. So spare me the victim mentality bullshit – it doesn’t work for the far left so you don’t get to use it either.

              • I laugh at your childishness. I love it when I’m compared to dog shit. Keep it up. And keep paying those taxes.

                Obama’s America is all going to hell anyway, so I may as well help it along just to get over with. You’ve convinced me. I’m going to support Obama as form of holding you and his suppporters accountable. Those of us who know what’s he’s really about, know what’s coming, so I doubt they’ll care about me and my scumbag thinking. They may even understand that the sooner it all comes crashing down, they better off they are.

                Emotion, ah a wonderful thing in hands of a vindictive bitch such as myself…..Keep working taxpayer, millions are depending on you, including me.

              • Ray Hawkins says:

                “I laugh at your childishness.”

                – Your welcome Cyndi – I don’t mind going childish – kids usually appreciate me for that.

                “I love it when I’m compared to dog shit.”

                – Good. I wasn’t sure how’d you feel about that. Some folks get mad when I do that – they tend not to like having a light shown on their hypocricy.

                “Keep it up. And keep paying those taxes.”

                – Just doing my part Cyndi.

                “Obama’s America is all going to hell anyway, so I may as well help it along just to get over with. You’ve convinced me. I’m going to support Obama as form of holding you and his suppporters accountable. Those of us who know what’s he’s really about, know what’s coming, so I doubt they’ll care about me and my scumbag thinking. They may even understand that the sooner it all comes crashing down, they better off they are.”

                – I have no idea what you think you think you’re saying.

                “Emotion, ah a wonderful thing in hands of a vindictive bitch such as myself…..Keep working taxpayer, millions are depending on you, including me.”

                – You’re welcome Cyndi – really – you’re welcome. Just don’t get pissed when this economy that me and my kind are responsible really does shit the bed – it’ll just mean your self hate has come full circle.

              • Ray,

                Are you going to let me push your buttons ALL weekend? I mean its really easy and fun, too, but I’m getting kinda bored with it.

  22. Kent’s post for his Examiner today hit home closer than I thought.

    Researching the root of the video’s topic, one of the famous of the “Missouri Partisan Rangers” – the Bushwackers – may have been an ancient relative!

    Though unlikely, (many people share the same name during the same time period at the same general place) I’ll have to investigate more…

    As I posted at his article

    “”..and men flocked to Quantrill’s black silk banner…”
    (History of the Bushwackers)

    Flawed men with a flawed cause, that may be –

    But they flew exactly the right color flag…

  23. Oh, Mathius.

    Since I’ve seen not respond to my quip about pepper in your cannon – you must know, as a learned fellow, the satire of my post.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper-box

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