Another Two Articles for Your Perusal

I don’t have a guest commentary on this fine Thursday night. So instead I figured I would take the opportunity to hit on two different articles that I felt would make for some interesting commentary. I have a belief, and I will write more on this later, that national security will become once again one of the focus issues in the upcoming congressional election cycle. In fact, it may be the defining issue, even surpassing deficit spending and the economy. But overall, and again I will cover this in a full article coming soon, I believe that we may be more vulnerable in terms of national security than we have been in a very long time. These two articles play into this concept, but not completely. However, I am interested in hearing the take on these topics because we have not gotten into the subject of the first one very much and the second is a reversal of previous claims that our own resident pirate used in his argument against Iran’s nuclear ambitions. So here they are. Feel free to discuss away. I will do my best on Friday to jump in fairly often and offer my thoughts as well. and as always, you can use this thread to post articles that you want to talk about as well.

Article #1

5 arrested over poison plot

A PROBE into a food poisoning case at US military base Fort Jackson has seen five men arrested, reported Fox News on Friday.

According to Fox News, the men were detained in December over allegations that they had attempted to poison the food supply at the base in South Carolina.

All five are members of the base’s Arabic translation training program, called ‘Lima 09’. ‘Each of them uses Arabic as his first language,’ one source reportedly told Fox News. Another report claimed that a military source said the five men were Muslim.

The men have also been identified as being in contact with five Washington, DC Muslims, who were arrested in December after authorities uncovered their plans to travel to Pakistan to wage jihad against the US, reported CBN News. However it remains unclear as to whether the men are still detained. There has also been no confirmation of the claims of religion or race, reported US news outlets.

The US Army’s Criminal Investigation Division began the probe into the claims two months ago reported Fox News. A spokesman for the division, Chris Grey said the army was taking the allegations ‘extremely seriously’, but added there was ‘no credible information to support the allegations’, reported Fox News.

Fox News also reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were aware of the Fort Jackson investigation, but the FBI said the inquiry would be carried out by the army’s CID.

Read the article at its original source:  5 arrested over poison plot

This one goes right into the WTF category. So let’s simplify the story as we know. 5 people, who may or may not be middle eastern men, but who apparently are muslims, are working at Fort Jackson. The are arabic as their first language folks, so my guess is that they are here from abroad. The folks were apparently preparing to join into the Jihad mode and poison the food supply at Fort Jackson.

They get caught in December. Over 6 or 7 weeks ago. We do not know whether they are currently in custody or whether they were arrested and released on bond of some type. Good old transparency again. I think it is OK to let us know whether they are in custody or not.

WHY has it taken 6 weeks to alert the public that this happened. If they were arrested in December, as the stuff I have read indicates is the situation, they already knew then that we were on to them. So we aren’t blowing our “cover” here as we investigate. But the White house decides to withhold this information from the American public for almost two months.

WHO are these 5 guys? Are they US citizens? Are they army soldiers? Uncle O certainly isn’t releasing that information to us. Why were they in a situation where they would have access to the food served in Fort Jackson?

This also, in my opinion, shows us that the Obama administration was lying to us when they attempted to paint the Christmas Day bombing as an isolated incident. Because I will guarantee that the enlightened one was made aware of this immediately. So he knew then it was not an isolated incident.

So there are some initial thoughts on this one. It makes me awful nervous to see so many screwups in the system that allow plans like this to either reach or be stopped just short of, devastating attacks. What do all of you think? Why was this information shared more quickly.

Article #2

U.N. Watchdog Concerned Iran Is Working on Nuclear Weapon

The U.N. nuclear agency on Thursday said it was worried Iran may currently be working on making a nuclear warhead, suggesting for the first time that Tehran had either resumed such work or never stopped at the time U.S. intelligence thought it did.

The report by the International Atomic Energy Agency appeared to put the U.N. nuclear monitor on the side of Germany, France, Britain and Israel. These nations and other U.S. allies have disputed the conclusions of a U.S. intelligence assessment published three years ago that said Tehran appeared to have suspended such work in 2003.

The U.S. assessment itself may be revised and is being looked at again by American intelligence agencies. While U.S. officials continue to say the 2007 conclusion was valid at the time, they have not ruled out the possibility that Tehran resumed such work some time after that.

Iran denies any interest in developing nuclear arms. But the confidential report, made available to The Associated Press, said Iran’s resistance to agency attempts to probe for signs of a nuclear cover-up “give rise to concerns about possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear program.”

Ali Asghar Soltanieh, Iran’s envoy to the IAEA, told the official IRNA news agency that the report “verified the peaceful, nonmilitary nature of Iran’s nuclear activities.”

Read the rest of this article at:  U.N. Watchdog Concerned Iran Is Working on Nuclear Weapon – International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News –

If I recall correctly, BF has consistently used the reports from this watchdog group as a piece of proof that Iran is not working on a nuclear missile. So now we get a report from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that states that they believe that Iran is, in fact, working to build a nuclear weapon.

As always I tend to look at things in a pit more skeptical fashion, especially when the information had anything to do with the United Nations. But they are the experts who would know, according to BF. So now that they stand accused by the IAEA of doing what the world hoped they were not, I find myself gloating a little bit because I know that D13 and myself have maintained our belief that this was the case, and we are now finally being given just a little vindication.

The question becomes what will the Obama administration do about it? As you all know I am a fairly staunch supporter of the idea that sovereign nations do not answer to us or the rest of the world. I expect that this is the first step in a process that results in more sanctions and punishment for Tehran. It may even go as far as being the justification for going after Iran next. Between this announcement and the announcement earlier this week from Secretary of State Clinton that Iran is moving towards a military dictatorship I can see that the Obama administration is escalating the rhetoric around Iran.


  1. Good Morning! 🙂

    Subject #1: This does not seem unusual to me. Happenings on military bases that are not horrific and do not result in death, but rather an investigation, rarely make even the local news. After all, these bases have no directive to issue any statements on their internal investigations. But, it is interesting that the methods (poisoning) aren’t being given more discussion in the civilian world, even if the arrests/investigation is not.

    Subject#2: I have become very skepticle of the UN. It would be a terrible mistake to give credibility to the IAEA at this moment in time. Afterall, this report comes on the heals of the IPCC being exposed. If the IAEA = IPCC, in terms of truthfullness, considering the subject, the IAEA should be scrutinized at a high level.

    Peace and Live Free!


  2. A Puritan Descendant says:

    Article states >

    “It may even go as far as being the justification for going after Iran next. Between this announcement and the announcement earlier this week from Secretary of State Clinton that Iran is moving towards a military dictatorship I can see that the Obama administration is escalating the rhetoric around Iran.”

    I state >

    If Obama and a democratic congress went after Iran, say about Sept. this year, and successfully took out the nuclear threat, wouldn’t this help them in the Nov. elections big time?

    • A Puritan Descendant says:

      or will Obama wait until Sept of 2012?

    • Puritan,

      Had a similar thought, but if they start any conflict, they loose their left base, and may not make any gains on the right. They have to pick up independents support and keep their base. And right now, it’s critical for them to keep a majority in the house and senate, which I don’t see happening.

  3. Ellen Spalding says:

    Question for everyone. Is anyone going to the CPAC in DC this weekend?

  4. Ray Hawkins says:

    Article One Feedback

    Were they arrested or detained? There can be a difference no?

    It appears they are no longer in custody and coupled with “there is no credible information to support the allegations” – makes me wonder –

    If nothing occurred then why is it an ‘incident’ that “we” are pissed off we were notified of?

    What does a non-incident have with transparency? With lying?

    Should this type of non-news be front page leading, broadcast news leading? Assigning fake risk escalation only heightens fear does it not?

    There is nothing to indicate a screw-up, a lie, a lack of transparency. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. There is plenty in here to feed FUD.

    • Hi there Ray….you should have taken me up the other day….I was frustrated enough to chop a cord in 10 minutes….with an ice pick. I am ok now, though.

      I have already posted that this is nothing new. The army will handle it within the ranks. It need not be public and it need not be catastrophic. We deal with it daily.

    • Ray

      Come on man. The point is that WE don’t know anything and the event happened in December.

      I would like to know if they were held and released and if so why. Or, if they were arrested and why.

      While it may be the Army’s jurisdiction I think that WE should be informed as to what is going on.

      It is obviously out of the bag so whats up?

      How do you know its a non incident when there is no information given?

      Happy Friday by the way.

    • Ray,

      Yes there is a difference. The article said they were arrested.

      If there was no evidence I wouldn’t care. But obviously there was some evidence. Whether it is credible enough to withstand the rigors of prosecution, who knows. But there was something there.

      And the point is that this is an incident, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. And the President was made aware of it I am positive. Yet he says there are no other incidents. That is a lie.

      Let us decide what is credible evidence. Let us decide if it is important or not. You claim that this was nothing and therefore we don’t need to know. In a world where we know the eating habits of every person in Hollywood and what Senator had lunch with a SEIU boss, I don’t think it is out of the realm of expectation that we are made aware if there was a possible plot to poison the food supply at the largest initial entry post in America for the military. You are being intentionally naive.


      • Ray Hawkins says:

        @USW – correct me if I am wrong here…..

        The article you cited cites a Fox News report “from Friday”. I searched Fox News and found only two articles, both from Thursday – neither of which state that the five were arrested – both state they were detained. And as you said – there is a difference.

        When suspicions are heightened – it can take no more than an unfounded allegation to get five Muslims hauled in for questioning for a terror plot – that is more obvious than saying that “obviously there was some evidence”. CID offering that “there is no credible information to support the allegations” also refutes that “obviously there was some evidence” (unless of course we’re going conspiracy theory route here which as you know – I do not get involved in).

        Was POTUS made aware? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this was a pimple on the ass of flea because nothing credible was found. Maybe he was made aware and said ‘move right along please’ when it was added that nothing credible was found.

        If nothing occurred then it was an allegation, not an incident. Let’s stop trying to make something from nothing because we think it shows someone a liar or hiding or non-transparent. If evidence turns up and this actually becomes an incident then I’d be happy to change my understanding of it.

        So one more time for effect: “there is no credible information to support the allegations”

        • @Ray

          The article Probably was from Thursday. I wrote MY article at about 3:00am Friday morning. So it being Thursday would make sense. If I said it was from Friday, that was a mistake. The original article that I read actually said the word arrested. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was amended to detained as a correction. I find that on Fox news many articles that read one day will have changes or additions the next day, even the title of the article will change. I don’t have the answer at this point as to whether they were arrested or detained. However, give me a little bit of a break here on the arrested or detained thing. I will include a link below. It is from the NY Post and states arrested…. then states detained in the next paragraph. Then it again states arrested. So it is confusing to figure out which is the answer.

          Second, while the conclusion after 6-7 weeks may be that there is no credible evidence, that was most certainly not the conclusion back when they started the investigation. They took it “very seriously” from the beginning. So I would imagine that the President was briefed with little more than there was a plan to attack this way and it was stopped and it is being further investigated. It is easy in hindsight to say, nothing to see here, not so much back in December. The issue that I have is that it wasn’t shared at all. As I stated before, in a world where the changing of a persons hair color or a marriage break up is front page news, I find it hard to fathom that the possible poisoning of a food supply doesn’t warrant ANY coverage.

          I will admit after 2 days or so digging and reading more, it appears that this was partially an overreaction on my part. I probably should have waited to see what the report said when it is shared. So I stand corrected by you Ray. The facts don’t warrant my initial reaction, and it would appear at this point that the facts don’t point to some sort of cover up.

  5. USW…

    Item #1: It is beyond me why anyone would find this unbelievable. I do not. Biological poisoning,(poisoning as defined as introducing biological elements for the purpose of eliminating combat effectiveness) has been around since before the civil war. Poisoning stores of salt pork or water, etc. to create dysentery which kills the combat effectiveness of the units. Purposely infecting “B” girls with std’s when a specific unit stands down in Saigon or Nha Trang or Hue. Once a rate of 15% is reached, meaning that the unit is only 85% combat effective, it is pulled from the line. These tactics were well used in the 60’s and 70’s. This is nothing new. Contaminated stores of Salt Pork in the civil and revolutionary wars was also an effective tactic. George Washington used this tactic when he allowed food stores to be “captured”. I think the main point is that we are in a war. The term war has been redefined. A war is no longer a standing army taking over a country…a war is now intellectual, biological, terrorism, individuals acting on behalf of someone else, chemical, nuclear….not a standing army any longer. So, I am not surprised at all. The Army will deal with it and it is not the public’s business. Eventually it will happen to the public. A water tower infected with amoeba’s or unguarded sanitation projects sabotaged, unprotected power grids set on fire or blown up….this is the price of a free society. We should all be vigilant and not stupid. We need to profile and call it what it is. I am sorry, but the Muslim Religion and race is not to be trusted….period and that is a shame. If this turns out to be true that it is a group of Muslims that infiltrated and planned this… just points to the fact that we must profile. I know no other way. And before the do gooders jump on the profiling issue….let me point out that profiling takes on many forms…not just race or religion.

    Item #2…I quit taking on individuals on this issue. I will sit back and be proven right. Iran never had a peaceful intent from day one. That is my belief. They have thumbed their nose at the UN, lied, used the time to develop their intent, and have so declared it….openly and publicly now. I was reminded of the Kruschev days pounding a shoe on the table when A-jad, in his speech the other day, announced “we are now a nuclear power” raising his fist high in the air in defiance of International sanctions and supervision (IAEA is a joke just as is the UN human rights commission and anything to do with the UN is a joke as much or more than the global warming issues)…. I have done a significant amount of research up to and including talking to a Nuclear Physicist from frigging Berkley that is in the family (I don’t know how he got here either, so don’t ask..he is an Uncle) and utilizing the IAEA’s own reports. The handwriting has been there all along….final analysis…enrichment to 20% for power and medical is 85% of the way to weapons grade at that point. (Why would Iran turn down cost free enrichment fueling rods from other countries if they were not interested in weapons?) However, I have already ranted on Iran and their ambitions many times. I am content to sit back and now be proven correct and I know that I will be.

    Now, what to do about it? Nothing. Leave them alone and let Russia and Europe handle them. No one is going to stop them anyway….the clerics have lost enough power now, they are no longer in charge. The Guard now has its fingers in the industrial and commercial enterprises and have solidified their power to where the theocracy is changing to a military style junta. But don’t believe me….just watch. The Guard now has control over civic functions, engineering, and infrastructure projects up to and including owning several companies that do these projects. They are becoming self funded. The Mullahs are in trouble and they know it. In the end, Iran, within the next two or three years, will have enough influence over the aristocracy of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Quatar, UAE, Kuwait to whip them in line and there is nothing they can do about it unless they (the Arab Nations) do it. Russia will not stop them….China will not stop them….India cannot stop them…and the US will not stop them. The United Nations will not stop them. So…do nothing. Get out of that region asap and leave them to their own designs and when we are asked for assistance……say no. I say leave Israel alone. Let them do what they want. If civil war breaks out in Palestine… and the West bank…let it. Do nothing. They do not want us there so we do not need to be there.

    But what the hell, do not listen to me. I am just a retired Colonel who knows nothing…other than being accused of being an alarmist. We shall see.

    • USW….forgot to add…..

      USW posted: “It may even go as far as being the justification for going after Iran next.”

      D13 reiterates: NO..Nyet…don’t do it. Leave it alone. Here is what I would do, were I asked. Station a satellite or several to constantly watch Iran. It is no secret and takes no military genius to know that a Intercontinental Nuclear weapon cannot spin up to be fired without a tell tale signature. Right now, the only capability of Iran to fire a nuke is very limited. Limited by the fact that (1) they do not have weapons grade yet but will in about two months, (2)they have a short and intermediate range weapons system only…no threat to us, even in Iraq or Afghanistan. They do not yet have the capability to tip their weaponry as yet with nukes…but will in two months. (3) They have no submarines capable of anything except one, now, that is capable of firing only impact detonating warheads…(no wire or sonar guided technology) but China is helping them with that but are far away from it. They did have two subs…the other is sitting on the bottom with crew still inside, when the diesel power developed problems and they lost ballast and went down instead of up…8 months ago. They have no air power capable of doing anything long range but it is currently being developed. They are years away from this.

      So, Iran will develop into a military style nation in a couple more years, however, they are not a threat UNTIL they spin up and fuel a long range missile with nuke capability. The minute they do this….blast it into oblivion and keep them in their own back yard.
      This is, of course, my opinion on how to handle them.

      Negotiations are a joke, with the current regime of A-jad and the fact that Obama has no Pied Piper of Hamlin effect on that part of the world except he is viewed as being more weak than jimmy Carter.

      Have a nice day.

      Ps: I just had a thought…certainly Obama would not start something here….for a second term…would he??????? hmmmmmm.

      • Allow me to clarify… I didn’t mean that it is my opinion that this is justification for doing something more to Iran. I meant that all the rhetoric may be a sign that the Obama administration is looking for justification to do something to Iran. I am more in line with your path forward.


      • Iran will develop into a military style nation in a couple more years,

        Really depends on Israel.

        From 1948, Israel has designed to seize the territory from the Litani river south from Lebanon as part of the norther border of “Greater Israel” based on ancient Kingdom of Israel cira 931 BCE.

        Israel still provokes Lebanon on this territory. Lebanon and Hezbollah are now allied – thanks to the ill-conceived war by Israel in 2006 – thus any move by Israeli into Lebanon will mostly certainly have armament support from Iran.

        • “Lebanon and Hezbollah are now allied – thanks to the ill-conceived war by Israel in 2006”

          Interesting view of history you have there. Israel acted badly. Hezbollah initiated the incident. I know you dislike Israel. But you cannot continue to make them the villain in EVERY story. I am no fan of their either. But you seem to believe Israel is the devil and Hezbollah is the nice little boy scout troop that just wants to help.


          • USWep,

            First, your facts are wrong.

            Israel crossed the border into Lebanon and were captured.

            As the AFP reported, “According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aitaa al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning.” And the French news site reiterated the same account on June 18, “In a deliberated way, [Israel] sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners.”

            The Associated Press departed from the official version as well. “The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them,” reported Joseph Panossian for AP on July 12. “The forces were trying to keep the soldiers’ captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity.”

            And the Hindustan Times on July 12 conveyed a similar account:

            “The Lebanese Shi’ite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. ‘Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,’ a statement by Hezbollah said. ‘The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,’ it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they ‘infiltrated’ into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.”

            MSNBC online first reported that Hezbollah had captured Israeli soldiers “inside” Lebanon, only to change their story hours later after the Israeli government gave an official statement to the contrary.

            A report from The National Council of Arab Americans, based in Lebanon, also raised suspicion that Israel’s official story did not hold water and noted that Israel had yet to recover the tank that was demolished during the initial attack in question.

            “The Israelis so far have not been able to enter Aitaa al-Chaab to recover the tank that was exploded by Hezbollah and the bodies of the soldiers that were killed in the original operation

            I am a fan of the truth, thus I detest the one-side nature of the American mind that ignores Israeli war crimes – including attacking and killing American civilians and soldiers.

        • Question BF,,,it seems to me that you have a double standard. you have consistently said that no nation should involve itself into the affairs of another nation….that it should be ignored. Why do you feel that Iran has a right to say ANYTHING as far as Israel is concerned. Israel is not attacking Iran…its problems are with the Palestinian area. It is not sovereign to Iran at all. So, why should Israel be used as an excuse to militarize Iran? Just curious as to why you see a difference.

          If you use region as a reason…..then it should be that ANY Iran supported terror attack in the United States or on the U S interests no matter where they are, should be reason enough to bring the full power of the US military to bear on Iran.

          So, it stands to reason for me….so what if Israel has been encroaching since 1948 in the West Bank and Gaza….what business is it of Iran’s?

          • D13,

            Iran has not invaded Israel for, oh, 500 years??

            Further, the last time I looked, Iran sorta sits in the Middle East – thus what happens in THEIR region is kinda important to them – sorta like, say China invading Panama would be for the US?

            It’s not a double standard – the US is in North America, not Middle East, Iran is not in North America and in the Middle East.

            • You love saying that while ignoring that Iran funds Hezbollah. I won’t get into it with you again over this, but you realize that your inability to admit this well known fact seems silly, and it makes you seem more ideological than reasonable.


              • USWep,

                I do not ignore it.

                But you ignore that the US funds Israel to an amount 3 times larger than the entire military budget of Iran.

                Before you start pointing your finger, start with addressing the cause of the problem.

              • See that is where you are wrong, and you know it because I have said this before. I do not ignore the US funding of Israel. I do not point a finger at Iran while claiming that the US has no fault in the things she does. I have been 100% fully willing to admit the faults and shortcomings of the United States. I have not once denied them. The difference is that while I am willing to freely admit the US fault, you continue to pretend that Iran has none. Your answer is that Iran is peaceful, never starts trouble, wants to be a nice guy. And when I point out things that show this to be not true, your response is that the US is a bad country. OK, the US is doing things wrong. We are bad. Now, are you willing to admit yet that Iran is not peaceful?

                As for whether the US is the CAUSE of the problems, that is a lot of supposition. I am willing to admit that they are part of the problem. But they only hold part of the blame. Israel and Iran share the rest.

            • Ok, BF, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion…however, the “regional” issues does not cut it…not with me. A sovereign nation is a sovereign nation no matter the locale….

              What you just told me is that because it is regional, then sovereignty has no jurisdiction. That, sir, to me, is a double standard. I really feel that if China came into Panama or Costa Rica or even Mexico, you would subscribe to the sovereign nation theory and claim the US has no right, even in this hemisphere to intervene.

              Under your theory, then, since Venezuela is more of a threat to the United States than Israel is to Iran, the US is now justified to intervene in any manner it sees fit in the affairs of Venezuela..up to an including creating and funding a puppet…ummm…partisan group against Venezuela or even invading, if it is a perceived threat.

              So, let’s see….Iran has not invaded Israel in, how did you say it… “Iran has not invaded Israel for, oh, 500 years??” I am not sure but I do not recall Israel ever invading Iran…ever. You always want to use history to further your positions, so I will use a little history…your own. So, according to you, Iran, the peaceful nation, has invaded Israel, the militant Nation roughly 500 years ago…now to my recollection, Israel was not an interloper back then as they were slaves, primarily. They were slaves to Egypt, Syria, and any other Arab Nation that decided they wanted slave labor. The United States was not around and Israel was not a “western ally”….Seems to me that history has proven a mindset here….Arabs hate Jews. Israel gets pissed and marches off to form its own little territory the best it can…fast forward. Now, all of a sudden, Israel, who were slaves to the Arabs and revolted, is now an interloper in that region. appears that the Arab/Israeli conflict is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old. Who the hell really knows….Persian History books? Israeli history books? The bible? The Koran? Ancient history books from several places? So, who are the actual interlopers…..

              Now, because the Israelis were able to establish a homeland through the guidance and acceptance of the United Nations in 1947-48, whom you support…Israel is suddenly the problem? Is not the problem something that started 500 or one thousand years ago and it has just manifested? Israel was content to stay within its borders established by UN mandate, according to my research but was never left alone…you say Israel started the war in the 60’s and I say differently. I think that the history will prove me correct….then Israel wins the 6 day war…convincingly and captures huge amounts of territory that it is entitled to as the spoils of war. And you say therein lies another problem? Give the land back and forget that 6 arab nations were going to smash Israel and could not. Israel was not established in 1948….it was established centuries ago. So who is right? I submit this to you,,and history is on my side, here….Even if Israel pulls back to the prewar lines and boundaries….Hezbollah will not stop. Hamas will not stop and Iran will not stop.

              I want peace in that region but I want it fairly. Capitulation is not the way. Give the Palestinians its own land and have the UN sanction it….which they will not, in my opinion and the fighting will not stop.

              I do not know who is right and I am no fan of Israel as I am no fan of Iran or that region..but who is right?

    • D13


      While we agree on many things this is absolutely not one of them:

      “The Army will deal with it and it is not the public’s business.”

      Sir, EVERYTHING the army does is the public’s business.

      Now I will go to the gym and lift copious amounts of weights as I have no wood to chop.
      Best to you this Friday

      • Top o th morning to you JAC……let me be a little more specific….An army base is its own jurisdiction. If a murder or a rape happens on base (and they do) it is simply taken care of by the CID. They do not call the newspapers, it does not require civilian authority, it does not go out on police scanners, etc. It does not need to. This is everyday investigations by the CID.

        Now…as to things that the Army does…invade countries, blow stuff up in your back yard, etc…of course the public has a right to know. But every time there is a traffic violation or criminal violation on an army post…it is handled. That is all I mean.

        If the investigation shows a criminal plot to…say, contaminate the public water system or something…you bet the public should know. Until then…it it military business.

        • Copious amounts? Has anyone told you that it cold he hazardous to your health?

        • D13

          We have alleged folks linked to those we are at war with, ethnically or religiously, who are reported to have conspired to poison troops at one of our bases.

          Sorry sir, but that is OUR business. As is the other crimes you pointed out. Yes the military has jurisdiction and I don’t think base commanders need to call the press everytime some domestic issue arises. But if questions are asked then answers should be given.

          But that is not the type of incident we are talking about here. I say again, the military’s business is OUR business. It is OUR decision as to whether we get involved beyond just knowing what is happening. It is after all, OUR military.


          • I agree JAC. While this president won’t say the words, we are fighting radical Islam, and this incident, if accurate, would seem to fall in line with that. Why the long silence?

            • Kathy,

              If you want to understand O’s long silence, you might wnat to consider how many Islamists he has placed into key government positions. Atlas Shrugged, American Thinker, Act for America, and JihaWatch has been covering this information. If what they say is true, and I don’t doubt it, as O’s past affiliations have be know for sometime, I’d say the ‘president’ is guilty of treason. But what do I know…?

          • Hey guys, I am only arguing jurisdiction but, yes sir, we will have to disagree on on the jurisdiction areas. I can also see your point concerning poisoning, in this case….but…let the investigation be the CID. When that investigation is complete, it is a base commanders jurisdiction to decide. However, if there is something that is hidden or intentionally kept from the normal channels, then I am on your side.

            But, in this case, so far, nothing has come of this. But, if something does arise, and it is factual, and the CID has investigated and found fault, it is still a military matter. Punishment, confinement, or is still a military matter. Now, to simply report that an investigation was done and it was handled within the military, I have no problem. But jurisdiction is military. The local police, FBI, CIA, or whomever cannot just step in nor should they be allowed.

            But, sir, how boring would it be if we agreed on everything?

          • Agreed Colonel… However

            military brass IS calling the press for every rape, theft, and murder on a military post. I live close to Bragg, and the news every single night includes stories of the crimes committed on post.

            So why would something as potentially devastating as poisoning the food on the post be an issue that should be kept quiet? I am not advocating that civilians step in and take over the investigation. I am fine with the military “handling it”. But there should be full disclosure to the public, especially in a case as potentially catastrophic as this.

            • Kristian Stout says:

              I think I understand why something like that would be kept under wraps. I’ve seen Mathius say this, Individual people are smart but mobs of people are stupid. Putting something like this out to the general public before they got to the bottom of it would cause a widespread panic. I don’t think anyone wants that.

            • Can acquiesce to Bragg…it is the opposite here. Anything that happens on base at JRB Fort Worth…stays on base. There are 5,000 troops here so not as big as Bragg but it does not make local news…hence the command difference, I suppose. The local gendarmes cannot go on base without escort and permission. So, it is a command decision not a military policy.

              Now….poisoning food at the largest entry base in the United States…that is news and perhaps shared but there is no civilian authority that is nor should be allowed in the investigations UNLESS requested. There will be no civilian prosecution at all nor should there be. And, if I were the post commander…no civilian media. everything cleared through public relations officer and all statements sanitized….not lied but sanitized to preserve investigation procedures.

              I have never been in command of an entire post but I was in command in Kuwait and Afghanistan. I did not allow imbedded media whatsoever and I was never ordered to do so. It is and should be a command decision. I do not have a problem with things being known but I do have a problem with msm writing what THEY believe is truth and they have always…ALWAYS sensationalized the news. Clear it through the public relations officer…period.


    judy take noticed. Obama is try to buy Reid’s reelection with our er.. his slush fund money.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      Hey T

      Yea, Obama is so loved in Vegas, that’s why the mayor will not have anything to do with him when he gets there too. He didn’t like the remark that Obama made about people shouldn’t be going to Vegas to spend their money.

      As for Obama helping those who have lost or about to lose their homes, isn’t that what the stimulus was for? They get the loans, then lose their jobs, can’t pay their payment and he’s going to come to the rescue. That’s what caused this mes in the first place, people running out there to get refinanced, then couldn’t keep up. Yea, Super Obama and Reid to the rescue. NOT!

      People here in Nevada can’t wait for these elections to get Reid out. For someone who claims to work for the people here sure has a funny way of showing it. He’s only out to get what he wants and it’s screw you people. He has done absolutely nothing for us here, nothing.

      Hope you’re doing well today.


      • I just wanted to give you a heads up that they were trying to buy votes to shore up Reid. So far the mortgage assistance program has not been very effective due to the red tape and limitations. Same has been true for the weatherization program that was supposed to fix up leaky windows, etc.

        Here in CA the unions have started their ads against Meg Whitman who is running for govenor to replace Arnie. They are hiding behind the name “Level the Playing Field” but it is a classic union negative ad. Meg is using a lot of her own money for the campaign. The lead democrat is Gov. Moon Beam, aka Jerry Brown.

        • Judy Sabatini says:

          Here, we have Sue Lowden and Danny Tarkanian running against Reid, and so far, he’s behind both of them, and as of now, I’m going with Lowden. Don’t know much about Tarkanian, outside of playing basketball.

          Rory Reid, Dingy Harry’s son is running for Gov here, but I doubt very seriously that the people are going to vote for him to run this state based on what good old Harry has done. For what I hear, people can’t/don’t trust another Reid.

          Lowden has 3 commercials out already showing the lack of interest in the people here by Reid, and all the promises he’s made, but not keeping any of them. She’s using pretty much of her money as well as contributions to help her beat Reid this year. I haven’t heard about any unions either helping or going against Lowden. For what I understand, her family has a long history here in Nevada. I just hope it’s not more of the same BS from her just to elected, and if it is, I’ll be disappointed.

  7. Re: Iran.

    First, there is no direct evidence, as he admits. All the evidence comes from one source – intelligence agency of Israel and its province, the USA.

    Second, he is new to the post, replacing a Nobel Peace Prize winner and he is a career politician. Let’s see what he says next month.

    Quote: Amano as Japanese ambassador to the IAEA shared the tough Western line towards Iran and was not inclined to challenge the available intelligence, diplomats said.

    He is a Western-tilted politician who is more inclined to bias his opinion on the highly discredited USA/Israeli intelligence agencies which proved their merit with the Iraqi claims. His placement was highly opposed by many countries due to this dominating bias.

    Third, having a nuclear reactor does mean Iran CAN create a nuke someday – which does not mean either they are trying nor have done so.

    Fourth, if you’re concerned about Iranian non-nukes, why are you not concerned about Israeli real-nukes – that are outside any international observation or review?

    Margolis is among the leading experts there for that region and usually very good insight into that area of the world.

    And lastly, let’s see. As I’ve said before and did Margolis in his article, if Britain, France, USA, Russia, Pakistan, India and Israel all have them, why not Iran?

    • Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Iran deems nuclear weapons to be prohibited under Islam and isn’t seeking to build them, after the International Atomic Energy Agency announced the country may have been working on a warhead.

      “Our religious beliefs consider such weapons forbidden as symbols of destruction,” Khamenei said today after he presided at a ceremony where Iran’s first domestically made guided- missile destroyer was put into service from a base in the Persian Gulf. “We don’t believe in atomic bombs and we do not seek one.”

      • Then you do not subscribe at all to the theory that Khamenei is losing power? You still feel that the theocracy is bigger and in control?

        • Follow up question for you. If A-jad and the Guard go ahead and build one, what then for Khamenei?

          I know you don’t think that A-jad will do it ( I do, of course)…but go past that and assume I end up being correct…that he does build one….what then for the theocracy?

          • Iran will not build a nuke unless they are at war.

            They walk a balance – the threat of building one is nearly as effective as having one – probably more so.

            Building one will force some hawk’s hand – too much rhetoric from Israel or USA ….

            Building one will most probably force an attack by Israel – and Iran still could not use the weapon without being dusted in return.

            So having it would cause an attack and be unable to use the weapon that caused the attack.

            However, the threat of building causes all sorts of problems for Israel/USA alliance. It creates huge rifts between USA/Israel and Europe, Russia and China and the rest of the Middle East.

            Having a bomb would align the rifts – threat of a bomb creates the rifts.

            IF the IAEA showed Iran was incapable of a bomb, then Iran would lose.

            But Iran cannot afford the IAEA to say they are within a short-time to make a bomb either.

            It’s quite a fine line.

            • Let us hope that you are right and I am wrong…time will tell. Your points are well taken but my skepticism runs about 99.8 out of 100. But I hope that you are correct. We shall see.

        • No, he is not losing control….yet.

          He sit on the top of a triangle – the clerics on the left and the moderates on the right.

          He has to balance this triangle carefully. But at the end of the day, what he says goes….for now.

      • BF:

        Isn’t the current concern that Khamenei may lose power to the Guards? Not saying he isn’t speaking for the current regime, but if he loses power, the the Guard would almost certainly play the nuke card and the US would have no choice but to introduce some military response.

        Taking it a step further, hypothetically, the Guard could be developing a bomb without Khamenei’s endorsement, approval or knowledge. Should we trust Khamenei over Mossad or the CIA? Again, not to say these agencies are spot on, but just asking….

        As to Israeli nukes beyond inspection, Israel is still an ally to the US, correct? Is it going too far to make the assumption that Iran having a nuke is a far more volatile situation?

        TGIF to all!

        • Man – you guys are way ahead of me, today!

        • Kathy,

          Isn’t the current concern that Khamenei may lose power to the Guards?

          He is the Guard – like Ceaser’s Praetorian.

          …and yes, his fate rises and falls with his ability to maintain their aggregate loyalty.

          Currently, he is in firm control.

          The Guard would almost certainly play the nuke card and the US would have no choice but to introduce some military response.

          Why would they do that?

          You ascribe them to irrationality – and that is a horrifically horrible assumption to place on another party.

          What rational purpose would they have to do this?

          Taking it a step further, hypothetically, the Guard could be developing a bomb without Khamenei’s endorsement, approval or knowledge.

          Kathy, I believe you do not know what it takes to have a ‘nuclear program’.

          This is not done in a back garage or a basement.

          Consider: The USA knew North Korea had a nuke program. How did they know when the USA has ZERO boots on the ground as intelligent agents and completely prohibited from entering N. Korea?

          Answer: You can see any nuke program from space. It takes the electrical power of a medium city to run the centrifuges. Large – huge – amounts of Uranium ore is required – which Iran has no indigenous sources.

          The plant itself is huge. It needs thousands of people, roads, water and logistics.

          This is not something hidden under a blanket.

          Should we trust Khamenei over Mossad or the CIA?


          He has a lot to lose. Mossad are completely out of control hawks. They couldn’t care less of the international sanction. Look at what they did to France!

          As to Israeli nukes beyond inspection, Israel is still an ally to the US, correct?

          And what does that have to do with anything?

          US does not control Israeli nukes.

          Is it going too far to make the assumption that Iran having a nuke is a far more volatile situation?

          No. It probably is a more stabilizing thing.

          Why do you believe a nuke in Iran is more problematic than a nuke in Pakistan…or India…or China… or Russia…or Israel …or USA – who actually used it on people?

          TGIF to all!

          • Gracias for the insight. Hope you’re right about Khamenei being large and in charge. Is there any impetus that you’ve seen, politically or otherwise, with Amano to communicate this news to push Israel into a confrontation with Iraq? I know he’s new, but any intel on his allegiances?

            • He is Japanese and has been noted for his strong alignment with USA policies.

              But this is early.

              Let’s remember this was a leaked memo, and not an official statement.

              Let’s give the IAEA time to organize under new leadership.

      • You don’t find complete irony on the fact that he made the statement “our religion doesn’t tolerate such a weapon of mass destruction” while presiding over the ceremony for a guided missile destroyer? LOL

        • I was not going there today, USW. The irony is that it was built locally by companies owned by the Guard. Self funded, so to speak, by the military power. It will be interesting to see what happens….

          And, I might add, the class of destroyer that was built is dead before it moves. It is offensive in nature, however, it will not move two oceans squares. The SA 10 will not fire from it….unless severe modifications are made and that defeats the purpose for which it was built. Does not matter. They have two subs to guard it except only one works and is armed by contact fuses (no wire guided tech nor sonar guided)..the other…well, it sits on oceans bottom with crew still in it. Its diesel power went haywire and it lost ballast….went down instead of up. It is still there….93 days ago.

  8. Richmond Spitfire says:

    Sorry USW…Out of scope for today, but….

    Girl’s arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance
    By Stephanie Chen, CNN
    Alexa Gonzalez, 12, was arrested by NYPD for drawing on her desk

    Critics of zero tolerance policies say school officials, police have gone too far

    Zero tolerance policies became more popular after Columbine, security experts say

    Students in Chicago arrested for food fight; students in L.A. ticketed for tardiness

    (CNN) — There was no profanity, no hate. Just the words, “I love my friends Abby and Faith. Lex was here 2/1/10 :)” scrawled on the classroom desk with a green marker.

    Alexa Gonzalez, an outgoing 12-year-old who likes to dance and draw, expected a lecture or maybe detention for her doodles earlier this month. Instead, the principal of the Junior High School in Forest Hills, New York, called police, and the seventh-grader was taken across the street to the police precinct.

    Alexa’s hands were cuffed behind her back, and tears gushed as she was escorted from school in front of teachers and — the worst audience of all for a preadolescent girl — her classmates.

    “They put the handcuffs on me, and I couldn’t believe it,” Alexa recalled. “I didn’t want them to see me being handcuffed, thinking I’m a bad person.”

    Alexa is no longer facing suspension, according a spokeswoman for the New York City Department of Education. Still, the case of the doodling preteen is raising concerns about the use of zero tolerance policies in schools.

    Critics say schools and police have gone too far, overreacting and using well-intended rules for incidents involving nonviolent offenses such as drawing on desks, writing on other school property or talking back to teachers.

    “We are arresting them at younger and younger ages [in cases] that used to be covered with a trip to the principal’s office, not sending children to jail,” said Emma Jordan-Simpson, executive director of the Children’s Defense Fund, a national children’s advocacy group.

    There aren’t any national studies documenting how often minors become involved with police for nonviolent crimes in schools. Tracking the incidents depends on how individual schools keep records. Much of the information remains private, since it involves juveniles.

    But one thing is sure: Alexa’s case isn’t the first in the New York area. One of the first cases to gain national notoriety was that of Chelsea Fraser. In 2007, the 13-year-old wrote “Okay” on her desk, and police handcuffed and arrested her. She was one of several students arrested in the class that day; the others were accused of plastering the walls with stickers.

    At schools across the country, police are being asked to step in. In November, a food fight at a middle school in Chicago, Illinois, resulted in the arrests of 25 children, some as young as 11, according to the Chicago Police Department.

    The Strategy Center, a California-based civil rights group that tracks zero tolerance policies, found that at least 12,000 tickets were issued to tardy or truant students by Los Angeles Police Department and school security officers in 2008. The tickets tarnished students’ records and brought them into the juvenile court system, with fines of up to $250 for repeat offenders.

    The Strategy Center opposes the system. “The theory is that if we fine them, then they won’t be late again,” said Manuel Criollo, lead organizer of the “No to Pre-Prison” campaign at The Strategy Center. “But they just end up not going to school at all.”

    His group is trying to stop the LAPD and the school district from issuing the tickets. The Los Angeles School District says the policy is designed to reduce absenteeism.

    And another California school — Highland High School in Palmdale — found that issuing tardiness tickets drastically cut the number of pupils being late for class and helped tone down disruptive behavior. The fifth ticket issued landed a student in juvenile traffic court.

    In 1998, New York City took its zero tolerance policies to the next level, placing school security officers under the New York City Police Department. Today, there are nearly 5,000 employees in the NYPD School Safety Division. Most are not police officers, but that number exceeds the total police force in Washington, D.C.

    In contrast, there are only about 3,000 counselors in New York City’s public school system. Critics of zero tolerance policies say more attention should be paid to social work, counseling and therapy.

    “Instead of a graduated discipline approach, we see … expulsions at the drop of a hat,” said Donna Lieberman, an attorney with the New York branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.

    “If they have been suspended once, their likelihood of being pushed out of the school increases,” she said. “They may end up in jail at some point in their life.”

    One of Lieberman’s clients was in sixth grade when police arrested her in 2007 for doodling with her friend in class. The child, called M.M. in court filings to protect her identity, tried to get tissues to remove the marks, a complaint states.

    Lieberman says police subjected M.M. to unlawful search and seizure. A class-action lawsuit, filed in January on behalf of five juveniles, is pending. It maintains that inadequately trained and poorly supervised police personnel are aggressive toward students when no criminal activity is taking place.

    Several studies have confirmed that the time an expelled child spends away from school increases the chance that child will drop out and wind up in the criminal justice system, according to a January 2010 study from the Advancement Project, a legal action group.

    Alexa Gonzalez missed three days of school because of her arrest. She spent those days throwing up, and it was a challenge to catch up on her homework when she returned to school, she said. Her mother says she had never been in trouble before the doodling incident.

    New York attorney Joe Rosenthal, who is representing Alexa, plans to file a lawsuit accusing police and school officials of violating Alexa’s constitutional rights. New York City Department of Education officials declined to comment specifically on any possible legal matters.

    “Our mission is to make sure that public schools are a safe and supportive environment for all students,” said Margie Feinberg, an education department spokeswoman.

    Several media outlets have reported that school officials admitted the arrest was a “mistake,” but when asked by CNN, Feinberg declined to comment specifically on the incident. She referred CNN to the NYPD.

    The NYPD did not return CNN’s repeated phone calls and e-mails. It is unknown whether charges will be pressed against Alexa.

    Kenneth Trump, a security expert who founded the National School Safety and Security Services consulting firm, said focusing on security is essential to the safety of other students. He said zero tolerance policies can work if “common sense is applied.”

    Michael Soguero recalls being arrested himself in 2005 when, as principal at Bronx Guild School, he tried to stop an officer from handcuffing one of his students. A charge of assault against him was later dropped. He says police working in schools need specific training on how to work with children.

    In Clayton County, Georgia, juvenile court judge Steven Teske is working to reshape zero tolerance policies in schools. He wants the courts to be a last resort. In 2003, he created a program in Clayton County’s schools that distinguishes felonies from misdemeanors.

    The result? The number of students detained by the school fell by 83 percent, his report found. The number of weapons detected on campus declined by 73 percent.

    Last week, after hearing about 12-year-old Alexa’s arrest in New York, he wasn’t shocked.

    “There is zero intelligence when you start applying zero tolerance across the board,” he said. “Stupid and ridiculous things start happening.”


    Unbelievable…whatever happened to meaningful consequences? I think if the girl had been presented with a classroom of stacked desks to clean, then it would have been much more valuable as a lesson!

    Geez…Here we go again…our illustrious powers that be — they don’t care about us, all they care about are their rules and regulations…I’m just sick and tired of this stupidity!


    • Stupidity is an understatement. What the heck is going on? And what does zero tolerance have to do with writing on a desk? Spend a shift with the janitor and it should take care of things.

    • This is what happens when people are “too stupid” to think for themselves. According to the guvm’t and our education system, we’re just all too stupid to apply any common sense to any situation. How did we ever survive without all these rules and regulations? Arrgh….

      Let’s just dumb all our kids down with all the drugs for ADHD and “No Kid Left Behind” and give educators no time to teach so they’re doing paperwork for the state all day, then send those same kids to a liberal college to get a useless liberal arts degree and they will be good little drones for the govm’t when they’re all through. Unless we have to jail them all for drawing on their desks…

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        I think they’re taking this zero tolerance a little too far anymore. Maybe they might have had some results with what they have done, but, what is going to happen with these kids in the future? Be so afraid to say or do anything with the fear of getting arrested, that they won’t want to go to school at all.

        Zero tolerance is one thing, but to arrest a kid for doodling on her desk, or hand, is something else. What are principals in school for, if they’re not going to do their job?

        Heck, when I was in school, you do something wrong, you get sent to the principal’s office, end of story. Back then teachers taught, kids paid attention, do the work, hand it in. And what’s with schools now a days, when you can’t have anymore then 15 kids in a class room? What ever happened to one teacher with 30 to 40 kids in a class room? That’s what I had when I was in school, and the teacher was the boss until you got out for the day, and you didn’t talk back either.

        Guess I’m showing my age here, aren’t I?

        • We were pretty much respectful and did what we were told when we were told. I think I remember learning,too. Teachers were allowed to spank us back then when we got out of hand – then our parents spanked us again when we got home – LOL! Showing my age, too!

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            I think it all boils down to on how you were raised. We were taught to have respect for our elders, never call them by their first name, always yes, sir, yes ma’am, no sir, no ma’am, and we taught our son’s in the same way.

            We were told the old adage, treat people with the way you want to be treated. If you want respect, then you treat others the same way. That’s the one thing I can say about my parents, they never spanked us, especially my dad, and I think it’s because of the way he was treated by his mother. He had the crap beat out of him practically every day when he was growing up.

            My dad had a way to make us think of things we did if we did wrong, then he would question us on what we thought we did wrong and then explained to us how it was wrong, and not to do it anymore. He would always remind us of the way he was brought up, and didn’t want to be that way with us 3 kids.

            • The Golden Rule was always emphasized in our house, too.

              It’s sad your Dad had to go through that kind of abuse, but what a testimony that he was such an inspiration to you and your siblings! Sounds like a very special man.

              Hope previous comments did not dredge up bad feelings – we were never beaten, but we did get spankings, but, honestly, it was a last resort and never personally saw it as abusive. Just an attention getter when all else failed – maybe our heads were harder.

              • Judy Sabatini says:

                No, No bad feelings here on my part, was just telling it the way it was when my dad was growing up.

                He once asked his mother why she did that to him when he was growing up. Seemed like because he was the oldest out of 4 kids, and no matter what his 2 brothers or sister did, he got in trouble because he should have known better. Her answer to him was because she thought that’s how you raised kids, because that’s what happened to her when she was growing up.

                My mother also came from an abusive family, but it was her father. He used to beat the crap out of her mother, and that of my mom’s oldest sister, but never touched the other 4 girls. He was an alcoholic and didn’t think twice of beating his wife and oldest daughter.

                But when my mom’s oldest sister and her boyfriend were found dead in a hotel room in Brooklyn N.Y. he blamed my mom’s mother on it and beat the crap out of her, because my mom’s oldest sister was 15, unmarried and pregnant. But for what I understand, my grandmother stayed with him until he died from alcoholism.

                So, that’s basically I think why my parents didn’t hit us when we were young, they both came from abusive homes.

      • Ellen Spalding says:

        You had the same thought as me. Give her several classrooms of desk to scrub clean, and I would bet that problem never happens again.
        Let get real about what we are really doing with this policy.

        • A five paragraph essay as to what happened, why it was done, and what was learned from the experience would also have been a nice addition to the desk cleaning. Whenever my daughter required discipline, part of it was writing the essay. I didn’t accept any old drivel either! I made her rewrite it until she could demonstrate that she’d learned the correct lessons from the experience. She once told me that she would have prefered I just spank her. My response was “That would be too easy. I want you to actually learn from your mistakes by thinking about them.” It seems to have worked. She’s turned out pretty good, all things considered….

    • Displaced Okie says:

      This exactly what I was talking about a month or so ago in a post. When you remove the discretion and judgement of people (officers and school officials in this case) you end up with this kind of enforcement at the lowest common denominator…..when will people learn you can’t legislate common sense or good judgement.

      Stay safe and live Free,
      Displaced Okie

    • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

      I don’t think they can make her clean a stack of desks, but they can have her arrested.

      As a New Yorker, who watched the Bronx burn,up close and personal in the’70’s and who honestly thought the South Bronx would stop advancing when it hit the Canadian border, I was very plesantly surprised when Bratton and Guilliani introduced serious community policing and started actually enforcing the laws.

      As my Dad used to say, we have enough laws on the books, just use them.

      Working in Neighborhood Preservation in the ’70’s I remember being invited to a chi-chi cocktail party. One of the guests was discoursing on how Graffiti was an art form. This while I was doing everything in my power on my job to stop it. He, and his wife went on and on about the “ghetto” expressing itself through this new and exciting art form. I, sick of this crap asked for his address. He wanted to know why, I simply told him, if he told me where his house was I would drive some “artists” over to express themselves on his personal canvas. He was indignant. I was never invited to another party with this group my wife was annoyed.

      If it is my house, apartment building, wall, playground, school, desk, etc, I insist that it not be marked up whether said marking is to express love, hate, friendship, sexual orientation or preferred sports team. As a taxpayer who indirectly bought those desks, I am sorry that Alexa got arrested, I wish that there was some way to punish her through the school system (which there is not short of suspension/expulsion which is a bitch unto itself to get)but, all things being equal, she has hopefully learned her lesson since her parents were not able apparently to teach her. Perhaps, through her example, other desks and then lockers and then walls and then sides of buildings will not be marked up. If this were to be the case, then her arrest was well worth it.

      I also wonder, if there is a “rest of the story” as Paul; Harvey would say about this child or if she really is just a sweet innocent angel who wanted nothing more than to emulate Mother Theresa and Madam Curie when she grew up as she baked cookies for her ailing Grandmother.

  9. Judy Sabatini says:

    Totally off subject, but I wonder how many of you remember any or all of these. Guess I’m older than dirt, because I remember them all.

    Just thought I’d lighten the mood a bit here. Curious to see how many of you do remember any of these. Enjoy!

    … THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ENJOY THIS … ‘Someone asked the other day, ‘What was
    your favorite fast food when you were growing up?’ ‘We didn’t have fast food
    when I was growing up,’ I informed him. ‘All the food was slow.’

    ‘C’mon, seriously. Where did you eat?’

    ‘It was a place called ‘at home,’ I explained. ! ‘Mom cooked every day and
    when Dad got home from work, we sat down together at the dining room table,
    and if I didn’t like what she put on my plate I was allowed to sit there until
    I did like it.’

    By this time, the kid was laughing so hard I was afraid he was going to
    suffer serious internal damage, so I didn’t tell him the part about how I had
    to have permission to leave the table. But here are some other things I would
    have told him about my childhood if I figured his system could have handled it

    Some parents NEVER owned their own house, never wore Levis, never set foot on
    a golf course, never traveled out of the country or had a credit card. In
    their later years they had something called a revolving charge card. The card
    was good only at Sears Roebuck. Or maybe it was Sears & Roebuck. Either way,
    there is no Roebuck anymore. Maybe he died.

    My parents never drove me to soccer practice. This was mostly because we
    never had heard of soccer. I had a bicycle that weighed probably 50 pounds,
    and only had one speed, (slow)

    We didn’t have a television in our house until I was 19. It was, of course,
    black and white, and the station went off the air at midnight, after playing
    the national anthem and a poem about God; it came back on the air at about 6
    a.m. and there was usually a locally produced news and farm show on, featuring
    local people.

    I was 21 before I tasted my first pizza, it was called ‘pizza pie.’ When I
    bit into it, I burned the roof of my mouth and the cheese slid off, swung
    down, plastered itself against my chin and burned that, too. It’s still the
    best pizza I ever had.

    I never had a telephone in my room. The only phone in the house was in the
    living room and it was on a party line. Before you could dial, you had to
    listen and make sure some people you didn’t know weren’t already using the

    Pizzas were not delivered to our home But milk was.

    All newspapers were delivered by boys and all boys delivered newspapers –my
    brother delivered a newspaper, six days a week. It cost 7 cents a paper, of
    which he got to keep 2 cents. He had to get up at 6 am every morning. On
    Saturday, he had to collect the 42 cents from his customers. His favorite
    customers were the ones who gave him 50 cents and told him to keep the change.
    His least favorite customers were the ones who seemed to never be home on
    collection day.

    Movie stars kissed with their mouths shut. At least, they did in the movies.
    There were no movie ratings because all movies were responsibly produced for
    everyone to enjoy viewing, without profanity or violence or most anything

    If you grew up in a generation before there was fast food, you may want to
    share some of these memories with your children or grandchildren Just don’t
    blame me if they bust a gut laughing.

    Growing up isn’t what it used to be, is it?

    MEMORIES from a friend :

    My Dad is cleaning out my grandmother’s house (she died in December) and he
    brought me an old Royal Crown Cola bottle. In the bottle top was a stopper
    with a bunch of holes in it.. I knew immediately what it was, but my daughter
    had no idea. She thought they had tried to make it a salt shaker or something.
    I knew it as the bottle that sat on the end of the ironing board to ‘sprinkle’
    clothes with because we didn’t have steam irons. Man, I am old.

    How many do you remember?

    Head lights dimmer switches on the floor.
    Ignition switches on the dashboard.
    Heaters mounted on the inside of the fire wall.
    Real ice boxes.
    Pant leg clips for bicycles without chain guards.
    Soldering irons you heat on a gas burner.
    Using hand signals for cars without turn signals.

    Older Than Dirt Quiz :

    Count all the ones that you remember not the ones you were told about.

    Ratings at the bottom.

    1. Blackjack chewing gum
    2.Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored sugar water
    3. Candy cigarettes
    4. Soda pop machines that dispensed glass bottles
    5. Coffee shops or diners with table side juke boxes
    6. Home milk delivery in glass bottles with cardboard stoppers
    7. Party lines on the telephone
    8 Newsreels before the movie
    9. P.F. Flyers
    10. Butch wax
    11… TV test patterns that came on at night after the last show and were
    there until TV shows started again in the morning. (there were only 3
    channels…. [if you were fortunate])
    12. Peashooters
    13. Howdy Doody
    14. 45 RPM records
    15. S& H greenstamps
    16. Hi-fi’s
    17. Metal ice trays with lever
    18. Mimeograph paper
    19. Blue flashbulb
    20. Packards
    21. Roller skate keys
    22. Cork popguns
    23. Drive-ins
    24. Studebakers
    25. Wash tub wringers

    If you remembered 0-5 = You’re still young
    If you remembered 6-10 = You are getting older
    If you remembered 11-15 = Don’t tell your age,
    If you remembered 16-25 = You’ re older than dirt!

    I might be older than dirt but those memories are some of the best parts of
    my life.

    • Ellen Spalding says:


      I dont remember some of them, here are things I do recall from my childhood past

      1) We did have one telephone in the house, a rotary dial with a cord long enough to wrap the entire house twice.
      2) One TV ( 13inch black and white), I watched very early morning Sat. cartoons and the nightly news during the week with the whole family.
      3) Went to church every Sunday, and CCD class during the week.
      4) We played outside with other kids until the street lamps came on.
      5) We always ate dinner together, I was incharge of doing the dishes ( no dishwasher in our home ever)
      6) We lived in 100 yr old homes with oil heat
      7) Our family yearly trip was camping with other family members.
      8) we walked or rode our bikes everywhere.

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Hi Ellen

        We did every thing on your list, except for 6. My dad would take us to Soda Springs not too far from Reno when it snowed during the winter, and in the summer, we used to go to my aunt and uncle’s up at Lake Almanor and do all kinds of things there from boating to just wandering around. They used to own a campground there, but we’re talking late 50’s to early 60’s

        I think I had a pretty good childhood considering. My only things to play with, were roller skates, with a key, a bike, and some dolls.

    • Loved BlackJack gum. An elderly man lived next to my grandparents and always would give us some. A good memory!

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        My step grandfather always used to chew clove gum, and he knew I liked it, so he always had one extra piece in his shirt pocket, but I had to ask for it, but it was always. may I have a piece of gum?

        I forgot to put down one other thing I used to love to play in our front yard, and that was hop-scotch. Anybody else to play that? As long as we had some chalk, we would draw the biggest hop-scotch we could jump. Oh, yea, and another thing was jump rope, or double-dutch.

    • Damn….I remember them all….

      add these:

      I coveted the electric can opener when it came out. My dad said we did not need one. I had to feed the dogs.

      Chocolate milk delivered with the regular milk and card board tops but the milk man walked in the back door and went to the real ice box and put the milk in for you.

      The Ice Man bringing the ice to you on a leather pad on his back and ice tongs. When we got a refrigerator..we were “uptown”.

      Going to the Saturday movies with 50 cents. Twenty five cents to get in, fifteen cents for a large popcorn and ten cents for a large drink. Movie tone news reels at the beginning of the DOUBLE feature with a cartoon. You could sit in the movies all day.

      Riding the radio flyer bike with the wagon on the back.

      Able to walk to the store for your mom and buy a pack of cigarettes for 15 cents a pack.

      Buying a 10 cent soda in a glass bottle and returning it the next day for a two cent refund…then buying the wax coke bottles for one cent each.


      Flat tops w/butch wax

      Watching sister and mom heat orange juice cans for hair rollers

      Tinker toys and Lincoln logs…all 1,000 pieces.

      Not only 45 rpm, but 33 1/3 AND 16 RPM RECORDS…

      making kites out of newspaper

      playing army and cowboys and indians

      Edsels and Corvair convertibles

      Hi FI

      Nuclear school drills (hiding under desks)

      dusting the erasers

      pledge of allegiance in home room…everyday

      walking to school or riding your bike….uphill…both ways

      clothes pin and playing card attached to the spokes of your bike.

      book covers you could not write on

      number two lead pencils instead of number three

      the first color tv but the only thing in color was the Peacock with five colors

      slide rulers

      licks from the principal….with a paddle

      police helping

      trick or treat with no razor blades or pins in candy and costumes everywhere. hundreds of people on the streets. HUGE bags of candy.

      Eat everything on your plate. There are poor people in China that would eat that.

      Liver being served….hiding it in your napkin and feeding the dog with it….the dog did not even like it.

      mowing the lawn with a push mower and edging the lawn with shears

      15 cent per gallon gas

      the “coolest car” was the corvette

      saying yessir and yes maam to anyone older than 18

      spankings from dad

      mom saying…wait until you dad gets home.

      patches on blue jean knees.

      • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

        Boy, did we have it good!

        The only time I remember being bored was about half way through August when you literally ran out of things to do and secretly looked forward to going back to school.

        Buying model planes and tanks for 69cents. When you finally broke off enough pieces dousing them with Testors Glue or lighter fluid and recreating Pearl Harbor. If you were adventurous, inserting a firecracker.

        In New York, street games, stick ball, curb ball, stoop ball, potsie, street hockey. The awe and wonderment of riding in the first car in the subway and looking out the front window (since eliminated).

        Flipping baseball cards,

        Davy Crockett Cards, space cards, Invasion from Mars cards, Civil War Times Cards, US Navy in action cards and a host of others plus the piece of bubblegum mind you.

        Comic books, all kinds of comic books including Classics Illustrated (which saved my ass in High School on “Tale of Two Cities”)

        In New York again, Nedicks, Nathans and Jahns Ice Cream parlors. In Nedicks it was two hot dogs and their famous orange drink for 50 cents. Come to think of it in the ’60’s it was two slices of Pizza and a Coke for 50 cents. 12 cents for an egg cream.

        Saturday mornings at any construction site to pick up returnable bottles, wash them out at home with Mom screaming at you for dirtying up the sink with those filthy bottles (“who knew who drank out of them”), return them to the A &P and get Movie/comic money.

        Flying the 10 cent kites off the roofs of 6 story apartment buildings with the George Washington Bridge in the background. Sending somebody’s little brother to the candy store to get another ball of string as you let it all out. Finally losing the kite after about eight balls of string because of the weight of the string (took years to figure that one out).

        In my case, watching my older cousin Bobby, my hero “roof” a Spaulding “pinkie” ball from the street onto the roof of a six story building and then sending somebody’s little brother to retrieve it so he could do it again.

        Pitching pennies from the curb to the building wall (closest wins).

        Whew, this could go on forever.

  10. Unlike BF, and quite a few others who hang out around here, I have NEVER given the Unite Nations any credibility what so ever. If anyone takes the UN seriously, then in my not-so-humble opinion they need a head shrink – and fast!

    If you want to know what Iran is up to, then listen to what Akmed-The-Nut-Job has been saying ever since he took the helm.

  11. Iran not producing weapon-grade uranium: IAEA

    DUBAI: Iran has not converted the low-grade uranium that it has produced into weapon-grade uranium, inspectors belonging to the International Atomic Energy Agency have said.

    The Austrian Press Agency quoted an IAEA expert as saying that the uranium substances that Iran has produced at its Natanz enrichment facility have been carefully recorded and remote cameras have been installed to supervise part of the stockpile.

    “If the Iranians intend to transport these uranium substances to a secret location for further processing, agency’s inspectors will find out,” he said.

    The expert added that “so far, Iran has carried out good cooperation with us in relevant verifications”.

    IAEA head Mohamed ElBaradei has said that Iran has slowed down its uranium enrichment programme. He made this observation while submitting a report to the U.N. Security Council on Thursday. Iran has reportedly added only 164 centrifuges (which are used for enrichment) since December last, a comparatively slower rate than in the past.

    The IAEA report said that Iran had so far produced around 1,000 kg. of low-enriched uranium.

    Iran has denied accusations by the United States and its allies that it has been engaged in a clandestine nuclear weapons programme.

    Iran has continued with its uranium enrichment activities which it stresses only have a peaceful orientation.

    The report notes that Iran has not stopped uranium enrichment activity despite imposition of sanctions by U.N. Security Council.

    The Security Council has demanded that Iran must suspend all uranium enrichment as a first step to allow negotiations to commence.

    • So, we have a leaked memo said to be written by the incoming head, and on Thurs. another memo contradicting the leak memo.

      IAEA is in the throws of political change at the top….

      And then comes the USA….

      Iran ‘has no bomb-grade uranium’

      Iran has no weapons-grade uranium, US military officials have said in an attempt to clarify recent statements from Washington and Israel.

      National Intelligence director Dennis Blair told US senators that Tehran had only low-enriched uranium, which would need processing to be used for weapons.

      He said Iran had “not yet made that decision” to convert it.

  12. Judy Sabatini says:

    Iran Launches First Locally Built Naval Destroyer

    Friday, February 19, 2010


    TEHRAN, Iran — Iranian state TV is reporting that the country has launched its first domestically built destroyer, calling it a major technological leap for its naval industries.

    Iran has declared many such advances in its military industries and sciences to demonstrate self-sufficiency despite sanctions and attempts by the U.S. and its allies to isolate the country over its nuclear program.

    Friday’s broadcast says the guided-missile destroyer called Jamaran is equipped with anti-ship and surface-to-air missiles as well as torpedoes and naval cannons.

    The report says the 308-foot destroyer weighs 1,500 tons and has a helipad and modern radar. The ship has a top speed of 30 knots and can carry 120 to 140 personnel.

    • Not to worry, Judy. It is dead. The minute it moves into international waters it will be the event of conflict, it dies….immediately.

      • Judy,

        D13 exhibits what is known as “hubris”.

        It is quite common the ‘day before’ an empire’s collapse due to a ill-advised military adventure.

        • Be fair, BF…..Hubris = excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

          Yes, I have pride in the United States…you have pride in Iran.
          Yes, I have self confidence in that the United States is just as correct as Iran and I am just as correct as BF.
          Yes, I am no more arrogant than BF and the US is no more arrogant than Iran. BF has his strengths…I have mine.

          There is one major difference between BF and I….he is doom and gloom….BF believes the United States will falter and die or that is MY perception.

          I believe, that despite our faults, the American people are far more resilient and will weather this economic and left leaning administration just fine. We need to make changes and we will and it will be hard to do. I also believe that sanity will once again take over and the dollar will recover. I do not believe that the Euro will replace the dollar and I do not believe that the Yen will become the world currency.

          There are lots of differences and prejudices between us, but, for the most part, we are respectful of each other and it does make for spirited debates.

          • D13,

            Something I wonder, what are the chances Hezbollah or Hamas might find a nuc laying around somewhere?
            So I am agreeing with Flag, Iran will not attack, but use Tom Sawyer warfare, get you buddy to fight for you. And their human driven pick-ups are more accurate than their missiles.

            • OH…I do not think that Iran will attack. For it to do so is folly. It dies. I will promise you, Iran is no threat with an army, navy, or air force to anyone except, Iraq, after we leave, Kuwait…etc. They will not attack Israel…directly, they will use surrogates. I have always believed this. However, I do not subscribe to the theory that Iran will not sell fissionable material at some point in time..they will.

              I do not share BF’s thoughts in that the Guard of Iran is not in charge. I believe they are and I think that the clerics know it. I think they are laying just out of sight and will run the country in two years and what Israel does it immaterial….it is a diversion. However….time will tell. We can hypothesize all we want and say the past tells it all. I do not think it is that way at all. BUT……….we shall see.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            To BF and D13

            I don’t think either of you as arrogant, and as you said D13, you both have your own beliefs in what Iran will and will not do. After all, aren’t we all entitled to our own opinions? Doesn’t mean that one is right, and the other is wrong.

            It’s the same way as I feel about the gay life style and abortion, I have my strong beliefs and thoughts about both, and I know there are those here who don’t think the same way as me, and that’s what makes for some strong, heated debates with each other.

            I just put articles up here in what I think might contribute to the conversation at hand, don’t mean to create arguments between everybody, just think that some of them would be a good discussion piece.

            And, just so you both know, I’m not worried about Iran, and I think if anything did happen, I’m pretty sure we can hold our own.

            Hope you both will have a good day.


  13. Bottom Line says:

    USW – “This one goes right into the WTF category.”

    • I’d say it worked for the most part!

    • BL and GMan

      I think this is one of the reasons that so many leftists try to claim the media is right wing.

      They point to the ownership and management but it goes back to when they were being played.

      Anyone who doesn’t remember these days should go find some old spy or political type movies made in the late 60’s and early 70’s. The govt always had some dark group manipulating and killing folks. The people were helpless.

      • JAC,

        I been reshearching a subject that is basically ignored or cast off as cases of insanity.

        You said: The govt always had some dark group manipulating and killing folks. The people were helpless.

        I’m gathering info to show that these actions are very active today. Sadly, most people are not open minded enough to comprehend what’s happening around them, or they would rather ignore it. There is much awakening to do, much more than even I thought.

        Peace my Friend!


  14. Judy Sabatini says:

    Frustrated Owner Bulldozes Home Ahead Of Foreclosure]
    MOSCOW, Ohio —
    Like many people, Terry Hoskins has had troubles with his bank. But his solution to foreclosure might be unique.

    Hoskins said he’s been in a struggle with RiverHills Bank over his Clermont County home for nearly a decade, a struggle that was coming to an end as the bank began foreclosure proceedings on his $350,000 home.

    “When I see I owe $160,000 on a home valued at $350,000, and someone decides they want to take it – no, I wasn’t going to stand for that, so I took it down,” Hoskins said.

    Join Live Wire Chat | View Slideshow

    Hoskins said the Internal Revenue Service placed liens on his carpet store and commercial property on state Route 125 after his brother, a one-time business partner, sued him.

    What do you think about what Terry Hoskins did?
    Good for him
    Not a good idea
    He should be prosecuted

    The bank claimed his home as collateral, Hoskins said, and went after both his residential and commercial properties.

    “The average homeowner that can’t afford an attorney or can fight as long as we have, they don’t stand a chance,” he said.

    Hoskins said he’d gotten a $170,000 offer from someone to pay off the house, but the bank refused, saying they could get more from selling it in foreclosure.

    Hoskins told News 5’s Courtis Fuller that he issued the bank an ultimatum.

    “I’ll tear it down before I let you take it,” Hoskins told them.

    And that’s exactly what Hoskins did.

    Man Says Actions Intended To Send Message To Banks

    The Moscow man used a bulldozer two weeks ago to level the home he’d built, and the sprawling country home is now rubble, buried under a coating of snow.

    “As far as what the bank is going to get, I plan on giving them back what was on this hill exactly (as) it was,” Hoskins said. “I brought it out of the ground and I plan on putting it back in the ground.”

    Hoskins’ business in Amelia is scheduled to go up for auction on March 2, and he told Fuller he’s considering leveling that building, too.

    RiverHills Bank declined to comment on the situation, but Hoskins said his actions were intended to send a message.

    “Well, to probably make banks think twice before they try to take someone’s home, and if they are going to take it wrongly, the end result will be them tearing their house down like I did mine,” Hoskins said.

    Hoskins said he’s heard from people all over the country since his story first aired Thursday, and he said most have been supportive.

    He said he sought legal counsel before tearing down his home and understands the possible consequences, but he has never doubted his decision once he made it.

    “When I knew I was going to lose it, I decided to take it down,” Hoskins said.

    • People have been burning houses down to keep banks from getting them since mortgages were invented, this is just a little different twist on the same Idea.

  15. Judy Sabatini says:
  16. Judy Sabatini says:

    Reid Signals Backing of Gov’t-Run Health Option if GOP Barrier Fails

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says he will support allowing the government to sell insurance in competition with private industry if the White House and Democratic leaders push a health care bill with no Republican backing.

    Feb. 19: President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wave following a town hall meeting in Henderson, Nev. (AP)

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says he will support allowing the government to sell insurance in competition with private industry if the White House and Democratic leaders push a health care bill with no Republican backing.

    Many conservatives and some moderates oppose the so-called public option. It’s in the House bill, but not the Senate version. The White House is trying to reconcile the two bills before Thursday’s bipartisan summit.

    Reid’s office said Friday he will work with the White House and Democratic lawmakers to try to craft a public option that can overcome obstacles such as a bill-killing GOP filibuster.

    Some congressional Democrats say they doubt the White House would include a public option in the proposal it will unveil Monday.

    A Democratic source told Fox News there was no chance the public option would be revived in the Senate.

    “We are losing votes on the public option, not gaining them,” the source said.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.

  17. D13,

    A sovereign nation is a sovereign nation no matter the locale….

    Yes, but no nation has the right to seize territory of another country.

    The fact is, Israel has – thus, they are opposed. The threat of Israeli actions – by the tacit agreement of the world’s superpower generates a threat to all nations, especially a region already overrun by ancient and current Western colonialism.

    What you just told me is that because it is regional, then sovereignty has no jurisdiction.

    As above, it has significant jurisdiction.

    You are arguing that an affront to sovereignty must be ignored on one hand, but enforced on an other.

    You are inconsistent.

    Under your theory, then, since Venezuela is more of a threat to the United States than Israel is to Iran, the US is now justified to intervene in any manner it sees fit in the affairs of Venezuela.

    Good sir.

    If you believe Venezuela is any threat to the USA, you need to change your meds.

    Nuclear weapons: USA= 8,500 Ven.= 0

    Aircraft carriers: USA=15 Ven.=0

    Budget: USA=$700 billion Ven.=$1 billion

    Now, try that argument again?…… 🙂

    Arabs hate Jews.

    You have a highly distorted and fabricated understanding of the region.

    Arabs do not hate Jews. They have lived amongst each other for centuries in mutual peace.

    The actions of Israeli zionism is abhorrent to the people of that region.

    But I know you have suffered decades of brainwashing – I expect – if every – it may decades to undo it.

    Now, because the Israelis were able to establish a homeland through the guidance and acceptance of the United Nations in 1947-48

    Only if you believe the USA is the UN.

    The UN did NOT agree to the 1948 war. Only the US recognized Israel as a nation in 1948. Russia only granted de jure recognition.

    The Israeli application to the UN was denied in 1948.

    They reapplied in 1949 and upon recommendation of the Security Council, they were admitted. Up until then only 20 countries recognized Israel.

    So unless I’m wrong – and I’m not – you are mistaken regarding the UN.

    Israel was content to stay within its borders established by UN mandate, according to my research but was never left alone

    Your research is badly faulty.

    In 1920, with the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, the British established a mandate over much of the region – including Palestine.

    The British notified the UN (post WW2) of its intention to transfer the Palestine issue to the UN and its mandate ended on May 1, 1948 – the same day Israel declared independence.

    Neither party – the Palestinians nor the Jewish delegation accepted the partition plan.

    Give the land back and forget that 6 arab nations were going to smash Israel and could not.

    You as a military man cannot be forgiven for such a grave mistake of counting countries instead of counting armed forces.

    And Israel did start the war – history has shown this.

    And Israel also attacked the United States – of which Johnston allowed – purposely – to involve the US into that war, too. Hmm…vaguely similar tactic in play today I wonder..?

    it was established centuries ago.

    By your twisted logic you must believe the Hellenistic dynasty, the Florence city state et al still exists today too.

    So who is right?

    The People.

    Hezbollah will not stop. Hamas will not stop and Iran will not stop.

    You then know nothing of motivation of their creation and existence.

    I want peace in that region but I want it fairly. Capitulation is not the way.

    As I’ve laid out before:
    It is ALWAYS up to the Hegemonic power to act first.

    The only capitulation can happen is by the Palestinians, and they never will.

    but who is right?

    If the American public cannot free themselves from the mass propaganda that you have well presented here regarding the region, the consequence will be fatal to Israel.

    Israel will not survive another 50 years. With the collapse of their only benefactor – the USA – they will be, truly, surrounded by the enemies they have created. They will not stand for long.

    Their only hope is to recognize this now – not latter – and do an absolute about-face in their policies. Unless they withdraw, negotiate and accept Palestinian desires of nationalism, Israel will return to dust like it was for thousands of years.

  18. USWep,
    Your argument is that a beaten woman has no right to kill her abusing husband.

    And you are right.

    But you are using that argument to further a SECOND argument saying that the killing lacks any sense, reason or understanding.

    In this case, you would be saying you would be ‘dumbfounded’ by her action.

    But of course you wouldn’t – you may not agree with her action, but you can understand why she did what she did.

    Yet, in the cause of the Middle East, you stand dumbfounded.

    It is this that I continually poke you in your left arm about.

    You do not understand.

    Now, are you willing to admit yet that Iran is not peaceful?

    I have no changed my position one inch.

    All government is evil – Kent made this point awhile back as well.

    As for whether the US is the CAUSE of the problems, that is a lot of supposition. I am willing to admit that they are part of the problem. But they only hold part of the blame. Israel and Iran share the rest.

    I have no care about ‘blame’ – placing blame is futile unless you are willing to enforce consequences.

    And you are not and neither is anyone else willing (or able) either.

    The solution, however, must come from the hegemonic power first.

    It must stop first, it must withdraw first, it must do everything first.

    To demand this from the weaker power is a demand of surrender. This demand will work if the weaker power has a will to surrender.

    But in the Middle East, the Palestinians have lost everything. There is nothing you can take from them except their lives – but their lives are dedicated to taking back what they lost.

    Therefore, they will never surrender.

    Israel and its puppet, the US, therefore has only two tactics left to them.

    They will have to kill all Palestinians – every last one of them.

    But, doing that means they will have to kill all the Arabs and Muslims over the entire world because they will not stand for that genocide.

    But, doing that means they will have to kill all the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. – essentially kill everyone in the world.


    Stop killing Palestinians.
    Stop the war.
    Give land back.

    That’s it – there are no other options.

    Interestingly, Option One seems to be the current tactic in play…..

  19. D13,

    I have no pride in Iran – why would I?

    The hubris I speak is your over-confidence on military might. This has always been the down fall of Empires – the infinite confidence that all foes will wither beneath the Mighty Empire’s armies.

    Here’s a short reading list of other ‘hubris’ Empires

    Battle of Salamis

    The Peloponnesian War

    There is one major difference between BF and I….he is doom and gloom….BF believes the United States will falter and die or that is MY perception.

    The people will preserver, the ‘thing’ you call the United States will not exist.

    • Yep..I just finished reading “A war like no other” by Hanson…interesting. I had to write a paper on the inadequacies of his perceptions for the war college.

  20. LOI

    omething I wonder, what are the chances Hezbollah or Hamas might find a nuc laying around somewhere?
    So I am agreeing with Flag, Iran will not attack, but use Tom Sawyer warfare, get you buddy to fight for you. And their human driven pick-ups are more accurate than their missiles

    There are no such thing as ‘loose nukes’.

    If there were, nation states would have bought them a long time ago. Who do you think has more money? Hamas or Libya? Hamas can’t even buy bread.

    If Libya got a nuke, they explode it to prove they have a nuke.

    A nuke is only good for one thing, and that is NOT using it.

    It is only good as a threat to forestall an attack – and not much else beyond that.

    So any nation would show off that it ‘has one’ – so that it would never have to use one.

    So if Libya don’t got nukes, there are no nukes floating around for sale.

    Any nation-state that supplies a nuke to a terrorists will be on the receiving end of annihilation. 4 plane, 3 buildings (opps, 4 – can’t forget the one that fell down all by itself) – and Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan are being scrubbed.

    One dare not imagine what a destroyed city might incite!

    Further, nukes need care. They erode – their core is highly radioactive and disappears over time. They need to be replaced regularly.

    Most of the cost of the US arsenal is not building new ones, but maintaining the ones they got.

    A biological weapon would be more effective. It could be engaged and the attackers would have more than enough time to get away before the consequences hit.

    See: Operation Dark Winter
    The scenario so overwhelmed the US that the simulation was halted before conclusion. The US was destroyed by the economic collapse. It is from this scenario – which highlighted the halt of the division of labor within an advanced economy (due to pandemic) – that offers insight into the destruction of hyper-inflation as that also halts the division of labor.

    Fortunately, weaponizing biologics is not easy.

    • Unfortunately, the risk of hyper-inflation is a whole lot higher than the risk of a biological weapon.

    • Flag,

      Aren’t missiles hard to loose as well? And yet, Hamas seems to “find” a steady supply of them, someway, somehow. What can you say about people who praise someone who straps a bomb on themselves, and walks into a crowded market and detonates it, to kill women and children, spreading terror. And when a country (Iran) promotes terrorism like that, would it really surprise you that they would be willing or even eager to supply Hamas a nuc?

      How do you think like a madman? Germany did not recognize what they had placed in power until too late. History repeats itself, again and again.
      I think Iran has our next Hitler in power, who has the will, but today, not the means.

      • LOI,

        Those are not “lost” missiles.

        Any one competent with a wrench who can read can assemble a missile.

        Nukes are fragile. Nukes ‘dissolve’ and need care. And they are expensive.

        Missiles are hardy, last ‘forever’ and cheap.

        To think about Human bombs, think Kamikaze – it is a tactic – nothing more – of the desperate. Believe me, if they had Abrams M-1 tanks, they use them. But they do not. So they use what they have.

        Before you condemn “terrorism” of another, cure your own first. As I’ve pointed out before, FIRST the Hegemonic Power withdraws THEN the weaker power withdraws.

        You fall into the usual “My enemy must be insane” trap.

        Hitler was NOT insane. He had a goal, and he created a means. If you hold him insane, you hold every US President insane. You hold nearly everyone in the US insane.

        It is a foolish position to assume of your adversary. It makes your moves, actually, insane!

        Hitler was a rational actor, as was Stalin, Churchill, FDR, Tojo, Mao, Truman, Gorbachev, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Obama, Putin, etc.

        Start from the position, and your strategies will be much more effective.

  21. Judy Sabatini says:

    February 20, 2010
    The Economic Crisis Is Only a Symptom
    By Monty Pelerin
    There are few economic problems that don’t originate in politics.

    Citizens’ faith in government has deteriorated recently, as shown in virtually every political poll. Rasmussen found that “63% of likely voters believe, generally speaking, that it would be better for the country if most incumbents in Congress were defeated this November.” Gallup had the federal government ranking ahead of only socialism in terms of positive image.

    People know something is wrong. They know economic conditions have taken a turn for the worse. They sense that they don’t matter much, at least in the eyes of their government. Furthermore, many believe that government is out of touch and corrupt. Politicians are viewed more as a ruling class than as representatives of the people.

    History is replete with examples of the rise and fall of empires. Is there some mysterious, material force that produces “cycles of civilization”? History seems to support such a contention, but coincidence and correlation are not causation. Societies rise and fall as the result of policies, laws, customs, and traditions. Man creates the forces that drive civilizations.

    Over the centuries, brighter folks than our elected officials experimented with virtually every combination and permutation of laws and customs. Ideas that worked were adopted, while those that didn’t were abandoned. It was in the context of this evolutionary cauldron that “best practices” were discovered and civilizations advanced. Those that abandoned “best practices” deteriorated.

    Our learned Founders knew history and the nature of man. They created a Constitution that represented two thousand years of wisdom and experience. Their remarkable achievement enabled a fledgling nation to rise quickly to a world power with unsurpassed wealth, freedom, and living standards.

    Now we appear to be on the downside of our historical run. An enormous economic crisis engulfs our country and the world. Has our time of leadership come and gone? What happened?

    At the risk of appearing simplistic, I argue that the driving force for our success was our conception of limited government. Our Founders knew the tendency of rulers and constructed a framework designed to protect citizens from government. This setting maximized individual freedom, encouraged initiative, and rewarded success.

    Slowly but incessantly, the remarkable document that was our Constitution was weakened. Now few politicians understand it, and even fewer believe that it has any bearing. Politicians suffer from what Friedrich Hayek termed “the fatal conceit.” As David Brooks describes it:

    In moments of government overconfidence, officials come to see society not as a dynamic and complex organism, but as a machine, which can be rebuilt. In such moments, governance and engineering merge into one.

    Our Constitution has been reduced to a quaint artifact of history. It no longer provides protection from government. Politicians still take an oath to uphold it, yet that oath is little more than the tradition associated with assuming office. Our Constitution’s role in government appears to be no more important than the Queen is to England’s government.

    Our Founders rejected virtually everything that our Parliament of Whores has imposed over the last century. The Founders were not “unjust” or “unfair” or “uncaring.” They were practical, and they refused to adopt policies that history has shown harmful. While today’s politicians cannot explain or account for the complex set of traditions, customs, rules, and laws that have evolved over time, they believe that they can make changes that will be improvements. What hubris!

    Hayek said, “The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.” Apparently, he was wrong, because our politicians have not learned from their many failures. Greater intrusions into the economy and the lives of citizens continue at accelerating speed.

    Our serious economic crisis can be attributed to the abandonment of constitutional principles that began long ago. Establishment of a central bank was anathema to our Founding Fathers. Arguably, the establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913 was unconstitutional. Thomas Jefferson warned against empowering banks:

    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.

    President Andrew Jackson concurred with Jefferson’s views:

    The bold effort the present (central) bank had made to control the government … are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it.

    No serious economist can overlook the key role played by the Federal Reserve in causing the current crisis. Nor can one overlook its debauch of the currency, though one of its founding purposes was to protect the value of the currency. Since the Federal Reserve’s formation, the purchasing power of the dollar has fallen by 96 percent. Most of that occurred after 1971, when the country left the gold standard and the Fed was without limitations.

    Government is generally precluded from entering the realm of economic matters by the Constitution. Once that restriction was ignored, there was no limit to the harm that could be inflicted. Economics itself is a self-correcting system under most circumstances. However, in a world where government is unconstrained, politicians see every minor discomfort as an opportunity for an intervention and a means to gain more power.

    All intervention contravenes the corrective mechanism of markets, generally worsening the original problem. This leads to demands for additional political intervention. Each one worsens the problem and weakens the economy’s ability to self-correct. Interventionism is not self-sustaining, as explained by Ludwig von Mises:

    An essential point in the social philosophy of interventionism is the existence of an inexhaustible fund which can be squeezed forever. The whole system of interventionism collapses when this fountain is drained off: The Santa Claus principle liquidates itself.

    Our biggest problems are in areas where government intervened years ago: schools, health care, Social Security, the banking system, poverty, the Post Office, Amtrak, etc., etc. All these problems have grown worse. It is likely that Mises’s end of the Santa principle is near.

    Over time, government grew into a corrupt Leviathan. Once politicians gained life-and-death power over the economy, their decisions took on value. As Sheldon Richman stated, “If there are no privileges to sell, there are no privileges to buy.” Businesses don’t contribute to politicians out of admiration. They do so as a means of survival, often under extortion-type circumstances.

    The elimination of constitutional protections led to the demise of free-market economics and the concentration of power at the federal level. A political oligarchy willing to serve the highest bidders now runs the country. Recently, the banking industry was their patron.

    Our Founders were wise men who risked their lives to create this country. Our current political representatives are arrogant, unprincipled clowns in comparison. We must return to constitutional protections if we are to regain our way of life and preserve our country.

    Prospects look dismal.

  22. Judy Sabatini says:
  23. Judy Sabatini says:

    February 20, 2010
    America ‘teetering toward tyranny’ – DeMint
    Troy Nelson
    Talk about throwing a “reality” wet blanket on an Obama “I’m so hot” fire. Just two days ago President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden were beating their chests about the impact of their jobs-not-lost Porkulus, uh, Stimulus Bill. Now, on the heels of this preening, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) counters with this:

    The Democrats’ arrogance and audacious power-grabs have made Americans stand up and say, ‘Enough is enough. We now see all too clearly that the hope and change the Democrats had in mind was nothing more than a retread of the failed and discredited socialist policies that have been the enemy of freedom for centuries all over the world.

    At a time when I fear America is teetering towards tyranny, I was thrilled to hear that CPAC adopted the theme of saving freedom for this year’s meeting.

    These incisive words were delivered to a packed Conservative Political Action Conference audience on February 18th.

    If by “teetering towards tyranny” Sen. DeMint means an Administration that speaks like thugs and street-brawlers, and has direct associations with like-kind, then he might be on to something.

    Consider that when Town Hall meetings around the country were hot and heavy in August of ‘09 the “protectors” of Constitutionalism and the 1st Amendment rushed to defend President Obama’s version of democracy and his policies. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi started the beat down with her “Patriot” stick: “They’re un-American!” White House advisor David Axelrod hissed, “They’re spreading lies and distortions,” towards citizens exercising “freedom of association” and speech.

    In a new twist government officials are calling its citizens “Nazis” rather than the reverse. Returning combat vets (aka “right-wing extremists”) are discussed as potential “domestic terrorist threats” – in an “unofficial” pre-release. The President chides police authorities acting in a lawful manner as “stupid officers.” He says to “punch back twice as hard” to critics, as if a street fighter. During a lap dog interview at the White House Obama, The Great Fly Hunter crows, “Pretty impressive. I got the sucker!”. The subtle psychology of that reinforces the image of a callow man who enjoys bullying.

    Back in the day when Teddy Roosevelt said to “speak softly and carry a big stick” he was referring to American government’s protocols amongst foreign states — not domestically. Apparently Barack missed that fine point… and the “speak softly” advice as well.

    If by “tyranny” DeMint means an Administration that associates with “para-government” gangs such as ACORN nuts or SEIU jackboots that attend Town Halls to do a little hair-mussing then he’s probably on to them.

    Ask yourself: does Obama exhibit openness and temperance? Or does he strike you as a petulant bully? The rapid descent into coarse language and elevation of a Big Brother Government is all anyone, including Senator Demint, needs to witness to think “we’re on the brink.”

    Obama wants to co-opt everything. Who knows? Maybe someone will even suggest a Communications or “Diversity” Czar. God save the Republic.

  24. Judy Sabatini says:


    Just want to say hi, and I hope everybody’s weekend is doing good.

    Take Care


  25. Chossudovsky: US will start WW3 by attacking Iran

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      I just watched the video, and do you think that the U.S. will really invade Iran?

      • Judy


      • Judy,

        I think that certainly under the current administration we will not see the US invading Iran. I don’t believe that this is the course of action that Obama is looking for. In short, I think his social agenda is too important to him to have something like a new foreign conflict get in the way unless he felt there was a direct and imminent threat to the country.

        Overall, it is something I hear a lot of saber rattling about. I do not think the US would attack Iran with an invading force unless Iran provoked such an attack by doing something such as invading Iran or sending a Nuke at Israel. Neither of those two scenarios are in my realm of “probable”. I do, however, believe that if Iran keeps playing the game they are playing, you could see a strategic airstrike on what the US determines is a nuke site. I could see this happening easily, but not an invasion on the scale you are thinking.


        • Judy Sabatini says:

          Hi USW

          Thank you for answering, and I do agree with you in what you said about O and his social agenda, but I do have a question here about what Achmedinijad, or however you spell it, said. He said he wants to remove Israel off the face of the planet. Now, my question is, if he did invade Israel, what do you think Obama would do? Do you or anybody here think, that Obama would go in to help Israel in defending themselves? Or do you or anybody here think he would stay our of it, and let them defend for themselves?

          Now, on the weather page, we woke up to a foot of snow here in Reno, and they said we wouldn’t probably see that much here, but more so in the mountains. Looks like they were wrong there. Started snowing last night, and it hasn’t stopped yet. More on the way here during the week. Can’t wait for winter to get done and over with.

          Hope all will have a good day today.


          • The US has been helping Israel defend itself since its foundation. Every year the US gives billions of dollars of cash to Israel and billions of dollars of military equipment.

      • NO….we will not.

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      Was hoping you’d get back with an answer, but I will check in the morning to see if you did.

      Have a good night Flag and take care.


  26. I will go out on a limb and say yes – either Israel or US will attack Iran.

    The Iraq Gambit does not make sense unless the goal – all along – was a play against Iran.

    • PS:
      Am-jed never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map – that is MSM propaganda that many fall for…

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Then why would they say he said it? For what purpose would the U.S. attack Iran? I know this has been discussed many times, but in all honesty, I can’t remember who said what about it.

        • Iran has been under the designs of US and UK since 1919.

          Geographically, Iran sits at the center of the region.

          It was the bastion of US power in the region until the fall of the Shah.

          The US wants it back.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            But why wait all this time, why didn’t the U.S. try and get it back a long time ago? Do you think Obama will do anything at this time, or will/would/could another president do something? And, just where would all our man power come from with our troops so thinly spread now.

            • First the US was more ‘thinly’ spread prior to 2000.

              Second, there was no ability to do so. Soviets where strong, China was active in the region (Tibet), India and Pakistan were problems.

              Geopolitics moves slow – which is why the chess game is lost on the people and turns them into pawns so easily. The people are easily bored and forgetful and can’t put multi-generational global political strategy together at all.


        Actually the original translation was from the Iranian news agency. What came later sounds like spin to me. I think he let slip what was really on their minds and had to cover it up later. There is no question that Ahmedinejad is smarter then Hussein was but he is still charting a very dangerous course for his people. Much of this I still feel is to create an external enemy to blame all their troubles on to keep internal control.

        After the debacle in Iraq, we would be foolish to go into Iran. The video above said that this was mostly oil diplomacy. All the more reason to start drilling here so we are not held hostage by that commodity. We need to produce our own energy be it oil, gas, coal, nuclear, or green whatever. Then let Europe, China and Japan fight over what is in the ME. The longer we delay, the more vulnerable we are.

        The current plan is to pull combat troops out of Iraq by August. I do not know how many non-combat troops will remain or how much equipment will remain. If we were going to invade, then troop levels would need to increase not decrease. We would also need to add another 500K to 1M men to the army at the minimum for such an adventure unless we went to the big weapons. I just do not see this happening anytime in the near future. Should Iran attack us or Isreal, all would be different, but I think Ahmedinejad is too smart for that. He will use his proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah.

        • Judy Sabatini says:

          I’ll never understand why we don’t drill here, when we go so much. Forget the environmentalist. That’s the problem, or should I say, they’re the problem. I don’t think a herd of caribou is going to care where we drill at.

        • T-Ray,

          Thanks for the link.

          Frankly, what “they” say and what they will do is two different things.

          The last ‘pullout’ only transferred them to the other front facing Iran – Afghanistan.

  27. Judy Sabatini says:

    He says that some of the money is going for fixing up some 200 homes homes here in Reno, just how is that going to help those facing foreclosures?. He also said that some of that money goes to some of the people directly, really? Do they get some money in helping making their payments, or is this just another broken promise?,5399

    • Judy Sabatini says:

      By the way, this is a video with Reid on the show here Face to Face. Sorry, I didn’t mention that before.

  28. Hi Black Flag,

    This is advertisment, but I found the information interesting. What’s take? If you have time….. 😛

  29. Judy Sabatini says:

    Federal Credit-Card Law to Create New Traps for Consumers

    The Wall Street Journal

    A new federal credit-card law that takes effect Monday could erase billions of dollars a year in fees and interest charges paid by consumers. But card issuers are already deploying new tactics that could prove costly for even the most cautious cardholder.

    A new federal credit-card law that takes effect Monday could erase billions of dollars a year in fees and interest charges paid by consumers. But card issuers are already deploying new tactics that could prove costly for even the most cautious cardholder.

    The law made some important changes. Card companies must now tell customers how long it would take to pay off the balance if they only make the minimum monthly payment. Customers can only exceed their credit limit if they agree ahead of time to pay a penalty fee. And unless a cardholder misses payments for more than 60 days, interest-rate increases will affect only new purchases, not existing balances.

    Banning these and other profitable tactics is expected to cost the card industry at least $12 billion a year in lost revenue, according to law firm Morrison & Foerster. This has sent the industry scrambling to find new sources of revenue. So get ready for higher annual fees, higher balance-transfer charges, and growing charges for overseas transactions.

    “There are countless fees that can be introduced and rates can go through the roof,” says Curtis Arnold, founder of U.S. Citizens for Fair Credit Card Terms Inc., a consumer-advocacy group.

    Consider the new offer from Citigroup Inc. The bank will give cardholders a credit of 10% on their total interest charge if they pay on time. That sounds enticing, except that if you don’t pay on time, your interest rate is 29%.

    The new regulations, dubbed the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, couldn’t come at a worse time for banks, which have been trying to rebuild balance sheets hit hard by the collapse of the housing bubble and the recession. Now, their credit-card operations are getting pounded by a downturn in spending and sharply higher defaults as unemployed Americans and other cash-strapped customers stop paying their debts. Last year, Bank of America Corp. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. suffered combined net losses of $7.8 billion in their credit-card operations, and this year will bring more red ink unless there is a miracle rebound.

    The banks could be hurt further as consumers try to clean up their finances, especially high-cost credit card debt. The average American was running a credit-card balance of just over $5,400 at the end of 2009, down about $200 from five years ago, according to TransUnion, a Chicago-based firm that tracks credit data. In such an environment, consumers may push back against new card fees or jump to a rival issuer determined to compete by keeping fees low or nonexistent.

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