Is FreedomWorks simply the Conservative ACORN?

Another night with not as much time to write as I would like. I have found myself in the position of having an extremely sore back, which makes it difficult to sit in one place or position for too long, and impossible to sit in certain positions. Oh, the lament of doing a job that put my body through the ringer at one time. I am not complaining, as it will be better in a day or so. I was watching a video this evening over at HuffPo that was about the incident involving the Geico voiceover guy who lost his job over a message that he left on the machine over at FreedomWorks. I will recap that shortly below, but it led me to start looking a little bit closer at the group in question. Having not researched FreedomWorks in the past, I was dismayed to find that they are not exactly on the up and up, at least not from first appearances. In fact, I am wondering whether they are really nothing more than the conservative version of ACORN….

Voice Actor D.C. Douglas

Just a quick blurb on the Geico guy. His name is Lance Baxter, but he is also known as D.C. Douglas. He left a message on the machine of FreedomWorks CEO and President Matt Kibbe. In the message he first referred to Tea Party protesters as retarded. His second question was valid (at least in my opinion) as he asked what FreedomWorks was going to do when one of their fringe folks did something violent. He left his name and phone number. Kibbe’s response? He posted the message online and asked everyone to contact Geico and have Douglas fired. Geico did so. Douglas doesn’t fault Geico for making a sound business decision, but does fault FreedomWorks for making the message public and asking folks to take the action to get him fired. I found Douglas, while I disagree with him politically, to come out as the good guy in the whole exchange. My personal opinion is that FreedomWorks came out looking like Douchebags.

So what about FreedomWorks? Are they really a “grassroots” organization as they claim? Do they really espouse the things that they claim in the literature and media they put out there? Who’s side are they really on? I ask these questions because I don’t have all the answers. I will attempt here to provide some insight into what I could easily find on them. But I won’t claim to know everything that they have done or that they represent. I am hoping that some readers here will add to the conversation and provide a little more insight as well.

What They Say

From their own website, Our Mission | FreedomWorks

FreedomWorks fights for lower taxes, less government and more economic freedom for all Americans.

FreedomWorks combines the stature and experience of America’s greatest policy entrepreneurs with the grassroots power of hundreds of thousands of volunteer activists all over the Nation.

FreedomWorks, led by former U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey, has an unrivalled ability to reach opinion leaders and elected officials with innovative policy ideas and effective strategies for change.

FreedomWorks drives policy change by training and mobilizing grassroots Americans to engage their fellow citizens and encourage their political representatives to act in defense of individual freedom and economic opportunity.

Dick Armey

Well, I won’t surprise any of you when I say that I like the idea of lower taxes, less government, and more economic freedom for all Americans. I can tell you that they are not kidding when they say that they have stature and experience on their side. On their board is Dick Armey, former Majority Leader in the House of representatives. They are also partnered up with Steve Forbes, yes that Steve Forbes.

They seem to say a lot of the right things on their website. For example, they claim that they are followers of the Austrian School of Economics, a fact that would endear them to a certain pirate around these parts if it weren’t for all the other pro-state stances that they seem to take. They claim to want to get to a smaller government. That is a stance that many of us would like to see, except that I get the impression that when they say small government, they mean small government in the way that the GOP means small government, not in the VDLG way of meaning smaller government.

As a quick sidetrack, I think that it is important to make that distinction here. We hear a lot of folks in the political spectrum who claim to want a smaller government. It is a pretty common theme, especially from the conservative side of the spectrum and the GOP. I caution all of you to refuse to accept this mantra at face value. Because the GOP and conservative operatives in government do not mean small government in the same way that Just A Citizen or I do. They only mean smaller government in terms of social programs and intrusion into the private market in business. In every other way, they are absolutely for a very large damn government. They know that failing to make that stipulation means many in the movements like the Tea Party will accept them at face value. After all, both want “smaller government.” But they are not seeking the same thing any more than the GOP and Democrats are both seeking “fairness”. Their version of small government is very different than the version espoused by people who value freedom. Allow me to present an example:

President Matt Kibbe

I noticed that throughout their website they like to use the phrase “grassroots” as this gives the impression that they are just regular joe’s who got together and had some good ideas and formed a non-profit to further their ideas and principles. This is not the case, obviously. Their President is a former staffer and operative for the GOP. Their chairman is a former House majority leader. Do those sound like regular joe’s to you? And let’s take a look at some of the known backing that they receive: They survive on private donations. Some of their “private donors” include Verizon, SBC (now AT&T), Philip Morris, and the Scaife family. They apparently also get money through some form of insurance policies that they sell which automatically makes you a member (I admit that I read this and don’t really understand what they are doing here or how they are doing it. If anyone has more insight please provide, thanks).

I dug further into their website and found that I support what they believe on a vast majority of issues. As I stated earlier, they seem to say all the right things. On many issues they have taken the stance of the GOP. Things such as border security and international trade find them right in line with the Republican party. However, on many others they are far more on the libertarian side of things that I thought they would be. For example, the support a flat tax rather than the progressive tax system. And they are right in line with me in their call for more private competition in the public education arena (although I would like them more if they outright called for the elimination of the Department of Education).

So what is my conclusion on FreedomWorks? As yet, I remain undecided. I have come to the conclusion that they are anything but grassroots, despite their constant use of the word. They are an organization that is from the top down immersed in political figures and adept at the political gamesmanship of Washington. But a lot of their stances on the issues are a bit more radical than the GOP traditionally pushes. They are decidedly conservative, without a doubt, but do they lean more towards Neil Boortz or Rush Limbaugh? That is the question.

So I now pose the question to the group. What is it that you think of FreedomWorks? Are they really a group that should be listened to or are they merely a conservative version of ACORN. They obviously are not getting federal funding like ACORN has received, but that could simply be because their side doesn’t control government. I eagerly await everyone’s take on them.


  1. I’ll think of them as a conservative ACORN when the videos come out showing FreedomWorks folks explaining to members of the public how to break the law. Until then, I’ll consider them another political organization, only tied to the GOP. I also think the stupid actor got just what he deserved. Had a conservative actor been as stupid lizard voice boy, you can bet there would have been demands for all kinds of retribution. Actors should keep their political opinions to themselves if they don’t want it to affect their career. They have a very public image and should protect it if they value it.

    • POasting for comments this morning.


    • Cyndi,

      Read this, then let’s talk.

      • Buck the Wala says:

        Very interesting….

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Very nice Mathius – many many months ago there was a video posted here on SUFA and vehemently defended that purpoted to show a cop assualting a woman in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina – I resoundly defeated said video because it was clearly heavily edited to “show” a particular point. I would find the same with this “video” hit piece which has resulted in folks liek Cyndi blindly accepting all the negative things ever said about Acorn. In the long run here I believe Acorn has subsequently imploded – more so I think because of mismanagement – and then deservedly so.

        A connection to make to this are the typical TPM videos you see pop up on far left leaning sites that purport to show all the evil racists at TPM events. Again – clever and selective editing can drive opinion inappropriately. Wanna see an average SUFA member have a meltdown? Show a Olbermann-ish video of a TPM rally that shows the fraction of a percentage of the participants with signs with semi-racial overtones and then make the proclamation that “all Tea Baggers are racist – see the evidence!”. Want to see an average SUFA member jump for joy? Show a highly edited “expose” video of Acorn employees supposedly counseling a preposterously dressed pimp and his supposed hooker on tax evasion.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Definitely goes both ways – thanks for reminding everyone of that.

          I had known that the Acorn video was edited but never realized just how much so…

          • I had read about it, but never actually watched it before. I was almost comic to watch.

            But, just for giggles, I’m going to try this for myself using Ray’s post above:

            Ray Hawkins Said:
            all Tea Baggers are racist! I resoundly defeated said […] SUFA […]Tea Baggers. […]I […] drive opinion […] here.

            Ray Hawkins Also Said:
            I […] liek Cyndi […]inappropriately.

        • Ellen Spalding says:

          Good Morning Ray

          I had no question that the video was edited to make it have more of a impact when it hit the news. Typical of all videos from either side of the aisle. I have always believed that most groups, like Acorn, usually end up being their own downfall, due to lack of direction and focus.
          My issue with the editing of these tape is the one with the the Acorn Employee Vera who was fired and hung out to dry for “helping the smuggling of young girls”.
          When in fact he gathered all the information he could about the “operation” and right after these two “reporters” left his office. He called the police and the FBI to report everything he found out. Plus after work he went down to his local FBI office and followed up with the information.
          Do I believe that Acorn was a very flawed company, no question.
          But I hate when people, from either side, disgrace a person for their cause.

        • ROTFLMAO!!! Call me when you get a clue, Junior! …like Cyndi blindly accepting….. WHHAAAA!

      • Matt, Ray, Buck

        Yes the Tapes are edited. As are all tapes ever created by some undercover reporter.

        It would have been better if not edited, but our media needs soundbites not documentaries.

        But I urge you to rethink your conclusions. Notice that the critics are doing exactly the same thing. They are telling you what you see and feel. They are trying to convince you that their view is the correct view.

        I see a grand rationalization on their part of the whole thing.

        What I saw in the originals and what I see in the longer version is an organization that is out of control, when using normal standards of organizational management.

        If ACORN were just a victim here, you would not have seen the Administration pull away so fast and they would not have folded and renamed themselves. They could have weathered the storm by simply releasing the unedited analysis. But that didn’t work. Why?

        Because when the big shots who had used them started looking closer they realized they were going to get very dirty if more came out. These videos were small potatoes in my view. The kicker was the voter fraud charges and the tax dollars tied to the group.

        Your points on how both or all sides are quick to judge is absolutely on target. I hope everyone who reads here at SUFA takes home a lesson in that regard. But that does not absolve ACORN from what it really was, nor any other group regardless of its political affiliation.

        Best to you all this Tuesday

        • Ellen Spalding says:

          Good Day JAC

          No question Acorn was dirty and had serious issues. My conclusion is the same tapes or no tapes.

          But I also stand on the concept that sound bites are not news. I would have no issue is they ( news channels) said here is a sound bit, go to our website for the unedited verison if you choose.

          Half truths and editing is what is killing us. People are only getting half the information on purpose. Lets put all the information out there and let people decide for themselves which road to go down.

          My example outside of Acorn.KBR
          KBR is a cilivian contractor that was awarded contract to perform electrical work for the US military in IRAQ. Well instead of having qualified electricans doing the work they hired low paying national with no knowledge of this trade. 18 soldiers died in showers that were not properly grounded. After that the Army did a investigation and found over 40,000 building that were also not grounded correctly. The only positive note was the military had not moved into these building yet.
          Outrage, no question. But were was the outrage in Congress or the media.
          Oh yeah- KBR was just awarded $35 million contract to build a large electrical plant.

          I am all for getting rid of companies and organization that are getting US dollars that are mismanaged, corrupt and just plain sloppy. I say lets get rid of them all!

          • Ellen

            I am in complete agreement with you.

            Before we through out the TV all together we had started watching PBS News. Primarily because they would spend about 15 minutes on each major subject of the evening. Included interviews and then expert commentary.

            My summary of the news today……….we are being played.

            KBR and the Contracting Officers who were supposed to oversee their work should be jailed and/or fined.

            Best wishes to you my dear.

      • I can’t get the video. I would however, like to see the raw video.

  2. This is nothing but a RINO lip service organization invented for the sole purpose to get the TEA Party people (of which I am one) to vote GOP incumbents into another term.

    Ain’t gonna work.

    As far as lizard voice guy goes, well I just mute those commercials anyway – After the rip-off experience I had with GEICO back in the late 70’s in San Diego, you couldn’t pay me to have my vehicles insured by them ever again!

  3. Ray Hawkins says:

    USW – hope the back gets better sir….

  4. Displaced Okie says:

    For the record, the voice actor who plays the gecko is not the guy who got canned. Baxter is just the narrator in the commercials….I like the little green guy and felt I had a duty to clarify. 🙂

    Stay Safe and Live Free,
    Displaced Okie

    • Ah…..sitting on this lump of coral for three years has spared me the vision of Geico advertisments. 🙂

  5. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Freedomworks attempts to talk a good talk, but that is about it.

    They are still STATISTS at heart and as such do not actually understand what freedom is.

    If they ever figure out that freedom actually DOES work, and they show evidence of supporting THAT position, then I might decide to like them.

    Until then, I will believe that they are merely GOP shills.

  6. The Financial Crisis Explained By Puppets:

    And the people who put it together are called the Story Pirates.. hmm.. I wonder..

  7. Last week, Lance Baxter aka D.C. Douglas left the following voice-mail at the offices of FreedomWorks (audio available here):

    Hi there. I`m doing a paper about FreedomWorks and I was wondering if somebody could give me a call back. I`m wrapping up and I just have one more piece of information I need to get from you guys — just need to know what the percentage is of people that are mentally retarded who work for the organization, and are members of it. And oh — and one final thing, wondering what your plans are, how to spin it when one of your members does actually kill somebody, wondering how, if you`ve got an actual P.R. spinning routine planned for that or are you just going to take it when it happens. Just curious. So, give me a call when you get a chance. Thanks so much.

    Read more:

    “what your plans are, how to spin it when one of your members does actually kill somebody” Fair question? Can we ask that question of any organization?
    Every time a Democrat or Republican is interviewed, lets ask if they endorse murder or violence, or associate with anyone who does(Bill Ayers). The Austin IRS attack was done by a Bush hater, and to me, a liberal. Lets pick a liberal organization, and hold them accountable for that psycho’s actions. How about MoveOn? Sorry, I do not think it’s a valid question.

    As for Baxter, I have no problem with him expressing his opinion. It does remind me of seeing a cow standing in a pond, taking a dump in the same water it’s drinking from. Baxter thinks the Freedom works members are mentally retarded, with a few potential killers. Geico must think there are a few mentally retarded killers that buy car insurance, and that their business is worth more than Mr. Baxter’s services. Lesson to Mr. Baxter, don’t dump on the source of your income.

    • LOI,

      I said it was a fair question, and I think it was a fair question. I had not read a transcript of the way that the question was asked. IT now makes the Geico guy seem like a douchebag as well. But I still stand by the statement that the question was fair in the intent of the question. What has changed is that I think the guy asking it was being an asshole when doing so. I didn’t get into the fact that the question is hypocritical given that it seems to me that the violent side of things generally is more prevalent in liberal protest organizations than conservative ones. The Geico incident was just what made me look at FreedomWorks, not what formed my opinion on them.

      • USW,

        I do not think questions about violence are relevant unless it’s asked to a group or person that advocates violence, or has a history of such. It’s a tactic to paint whoever in a different light. Should the KKK be asked such questions? Absolutely! Is FreedomWorks astroturf? Looks so to me, but they have not advocated violence, so not a fair question, just a mudslinger in (Baxter)action, and not worthy of my attention.

        I think GA nailed it on FreedomWorks on #2. And I agree with your points on them, their pitch on small gov. is talking points, not what I would support.

  8. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    Has nothing to do with today’s article, but shows that at least some people have been paying attention to the whole “taxation is theft” theme. This guy provides ample evidence of taxation being theft. Enjoy!

    • Good find Peter.

    • I’ve been seeing the words the words theft, violence on non violent men, and freedom used more & more on other sites. Maybe because Black Flag says them a minimum of 137 times each day. I think Flag has a secret following.

      • SMALL and secret following 🙂

      • Beyond any question;

        Chris and his “group” dominate the mindset – probably 1,000 to 1.

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          The people who try to claim that taxation is NOT theft because it does “some good for society” just make me uproariously laugh.

          If you truly believe that, please send me all of the money that you usually send to the government in taxes. I PROMISE to do more “good for society” than the government does!

          In all seriousness though, the DEFINITION of theft is taking something from someone else that does not belong to you without your consent or permission, generally through the use of force or the threat of use of force.

          I know that what the pro-taxation folks are arguing is that by living in a society, you are “automatically” agreeing to give your permission for the government to take your money, so it is not theft.

          However, that is not a valid argument.

          • Chris Devine says:

            Please explain why it is not a valid argument. Here is the first article I found doing a simple search using “taxes are theft”:


            • “Taxes are part of a social contract, an agreement between voters and government to exchange money for the government’s goods and services.”

              Someone show me this contract. I never signed anything and I do not vote.
              So shouldn’t that excuse me from this idiotic game?

              • Chris Devine says:

                You may be excused if you pay us back for all the times you benefited from our roads, fire and police protection, public education, health and safety agencies, national defense, justice system, etc. and never ever use them again.

                Sound fair?

              • Chris,

                Didn’t the government already steal his money to pay for this already?

                Wouldn’t such “services” simply send a bill to those that use said services? I mean, Exxon and McDonald’s both have figured this out?

              • Chris Devine says:

                I don’t know if he paid his taxes or not. For all I know he got more than he paid for, but it’s probably a safe bet he didn’t get less.

                As far as Exxon and McDonald’s go, I’d say we’re back at the whole ‘externality’ issue. How much taxpayer money was spent cleaning up the Valdez mess or covering the living expenses for millions of underpaid workers on public assistance programs?

                The fee for service model might work for gas and burgers, but isn’t exactly practical for public services. How much energy and revenues will be wasted trying to get all the deadbeats (rich and poor) to pay their bills? Poor people will probably pay their share since it’s the path of least resistance for them, but those with tax attorneys will stiff us until they’re forced to pay. How efficient would that be?

                I’m not saying the current tax system is optimal, but hiring millions of government collection agents hardly seems like a better alternative.

              • Chris Devine says:

                On second thought, many taxes are levied after the fact (e.g., property taxes and the portion of income tax not withheld from your paycheck). Other taxes are paid at the point of sale (sales tax, excise tax, etc.). How is this any different than Ticketmaster charging a non-negotiable transaction fee or ATM fees?

                Having thought this through a little more I’m even more convinced that most taxes are the dues we pay for services rendered.

              • Moved to Tues. Open…

  9. Looks to me like a douchebag doing a politically charged stunt and paying the price for it in the private market.

    Looks to me also like a political organization finding a way to make a big stink out of a harmless prank. If FreedomWorks were a business, they would look like a bunch of whiny tools, and I would not buy their products. It also turns me off to their message, because, as a political organization, they still look like a bunch of whiny tools.

    Stupid vs. Stupid, no winner. 🙂

  10. Do not Strike the roots, Poison the roots.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Even if you poison the roots, be sure to get them ALL!

      The dang thing is like a “tree of heaven” that has sent runners all over the entire yard, and just when you thought you killed the tree, a dozen more of them shoot up in various (and usually inconvenient) places all over your property!

  11. Explaining derivatives.

    Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit . She realizes that virtually all of her customers are unemployed alcoholics and, as such, can no longer afford to patronize her bar. To solve this problem, she comes up with a new marketing plan that allows her customers to drink now, pay later.

    Heidi keeps track of the drinks consumed in a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans). Word gets around about Heidi’s “drink now, pay later” marketing strategy and, as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi’s bar. Soon she has the largest sales volume for any bar in Detroit .

    By providing her customers freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when, at regular intervals, she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Consequently, Heidi’s gross sales volume increases massively.

    A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes that these customer debts constitute valuable future assets, and increases Heidi’s borrowing limit. He sees no reason for any undue concern, since he has the debts of the unemployed alcoholics as collateral.

    At the bank’s corporate headquarters, expert traders figure a way to make huge commissions, and transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then bundled and traded on international security markets.

    Naive investors don’t really understand that the securities being sold to them as AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, the bond prices continuously climb, and the securities soon become the hottest-selling items for some of the nation’s leading brokerage houses.

    One day, even though the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager at the original local bank decides that the time has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi’s bar. He so informs Heidi.

    Heidi then demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed alcoholics, they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Since Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations she is forced into bankruptcy. The bar closes and the eleven employees lose their jobs.

    Overnight, DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS drop in price by 90%. The collapsed bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans, thus freezing credit and economic activity in the community.

    The suppliers of Heidi’s bar had granted her generous payment extensions and had invested their firms’ pension funds in the various BOND securities. They find they are now faced with having to write off her bad debt and with losing over 90% of the presumed value of the bonds. Her wine supplier also claims bankruptcy, closing the doors on a family business that had endured for three generations; her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 150 workers.

    Fortunately though, the bank, the brokerage houses and their respective executives are saved and bailed out by a multi-billion dollar, no-strings-attached cash infusion from their cronies in Government.

    The funds required for this bailout are obtained by new taxes levied on employed, middle-class, non-drinkers who have never been in Heidi’s bar.

    Any questions?

  12. Anyone following the charades on Capitol Hill today with the questioning of Goldman Sachs? How’s it going?

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

    • Leno Jokes About GOP in Goldman Sachs’ Pockets, Yet 75% of Firms Donations Went to Dems
      By Mike Bates | Tue, 04/27/2010 – 13:09

      Monday evening, Tonight Show host Jay Leno joked about Wall Street reform. As reported on The New York Times’s Web site, he said:

      Last week, President Obama gave a speech in New York City about his plan to reform these rules on Wall Street, you know? And one embarrassing moment. When the head of Goldman Sachs was going through security, he was asked to empty his pockets and five Republican senators fell out.

      The truth, of course, is that Goldman Sachs has consistently given much more money to Democrats than to Republicans. For the 2008 election cycle, as detailed at, 75 percent of the almost $6 million in political contributions made by the investment bank’s political action committee and employees went to Democrats. Goldman Sachs’s donations made it the second-biggest contributor to Obama’s presidential election campaign.

      Read more:

  13. Over the last week, I’ve offered two, key, warnings of an impending economic upheaval.

    Here’s a third:

    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Council Told to Consider Bankruptcy

    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing.

    They missed $6 million … out of a budget of nearly $200 million.

    When an entity can’t find 3% of their budget to avoid bankruptcy – something is massively wrong.

    This my foretell the future of many municipalities and the States – nearly a $3 trillion bond market that is under risk

  14. New Warning #4:

    D13 and I dialogued a bit on the state of Europe and Greece.

    A paid pundit has offered even a more dire warning then I imagined (which is why I pay him 🙂 )

    Unlike the USA which has the FDIC, Europe’s EURO does not.

    In the US, a bank failure is bailed out by the taxpayer – the depositors do not lose their money.

    But in Europe, this is not the case.

    The Greece issue has been seen as a huge threat to Greeks – who are pulling their cash out of Greek owned banks and depositing their Euro’s into foreign banks.

    They have a honest-to-God bank run happening in Greece.

    The problem, this bank run will spread throughout Europe – one nation at a time. Imagines of 1929-1933 USA …. economic gridlock – national bankruptcy with decline monetary liquidity.

    Remember what I warned about a modern systemic Depression – it threatens the division of labor, which no modern industrialized nation can risk without the subsequent deaths of millions of people.

    Europe will not necessarily go this way -they may inflate themselves out- but Germany is S.O.L. – cornered. All of Europe is cornered.

    The great Socialist experiment in Europe is tittering. This tidal wave will reach these shores as well.

    • Ok BF…Speak in plain English for me.. What impact does that have for someone like me with some change in a bank here in the US.

      • Matter of fact BF–Could I please get your email address?

      • The Global banking system is intertwined – just like what happened during the US crisis – international letters of credit evaporated.

        LOC are utilized by companies to buy and sell internationally – if they are not honored, international trade stops (remember the pic I posted of the ships – twice as large as the combined navies of Russia, UK and USA – parked in the Indian Ocean).

        International trade stops, so does the purchase of US debt.

        And this is only one critical consequences!

        There is deposit demands, US Treasury redemption, derivative unfolding, insurance failures, so on and so forth.

        It would tip the fragile US economy over a cliff.

        Buy gold.

        • I remember those pictures like it was yesterday BF, I just hope what was written here a year or so ago, was given some credence back the by all the readers and posters here, if not, everyone is a year behind me, not to mention you.


    • I hate to be the guy sounding the gloom & doom here . . .

      Europe will do what they always do when they get their financial panties in a bunch . . . They will start a war on such a scale that no one will be immune from it.

  15. BF posted: “The great Socialist experiment in Europe is tittering. This tidal wave will reach these shores as well.”

    D13 says: There is one way out of the same thing but in order for that way to happen, Greece and Europe must fail….now. I think it has already happened but it has not caught up yet. Pretty soon, Spain, Italy, France will stop accepting deposits and limit withdrawals….the money coming out of Greece will be toilet paper.

    Try to go get $10,000 out of your account today in cash. You will have at least a two day wait. You can get $9,999 as many times as you want, but the $10,000 mark will stop you.

    This may be the wake up call to Congress.

  16. More evidence of the racist nature of the tea party folks, OOPS…….maybe not.

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