No Spades Games Allowed… Chester’s Lockdown

I know that many of you read that headline and thought, “perhaps the old Weapon has finally lost his mind.” Come to think of that some of you may have begun thinking that the first day you checked in at SUFA. Spades? Chester? Who in the hell is Chester and why do we care if he is allowed to play spades? The Chester that I am referring to is a “where”, not a “who.” Chester, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia, is where. And Chester has some big problems at the moment. It seems that there have been four murders in Chester in the last eight days. In their panic, they have locked down the city. The Mayor declared a state of emergency for Chester, and as a result, it is now unlawful for gatherings of more than three people. A game of Spades takes four people. Thus, there will be no spades played in Chester in the immediate future. That is too much like a hate group plotting a murder, I suppose. What is going on in Chester? And what of this madness they are calling a “state of emergency, which sounds a lot like martial law to me?

Chester is a town that I am personally familiar with. It is a bit south of Philadelphia. I used to work in Christiana, Delaware. Chester was about 20 minutes north of where I worked. I had some friends there, and had a lot of customers from Chester and the surrounding area. It isn’t far enough from Philly that I am shocked to hear of four deaths in the town. Philly has turned into the city of not so brotherly love. Chester is simply another of the suburb towns that resulted from what we all know now to be urban sprawl. About equidistant from Wilmington, Delaware (one of the most dangerous cities in America for its size) and Philly, I would think that violent crime would not be all that foreign of a concept there. It is only 20 minutes from Chester to the heart of Philly, and only about 15 minutes from Chester to downtown Wilmington.

But the last 8 days have resulted in 4 murders in Chester (we had 4 last night in Durham). As a result, Mayor Wendell Butler Jr. declared a state of emergency for the city beginning at 9:00 pm on Saturday night. As a result of the state of emergency, from 9:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. each day, no person without a legitimate reason is allowed in any public street or place, no assembling of three or more people is allowed without a permit, and all vacation and personal days by members of the Chester Police Department have been canceled immediately. I will not get into the concept that all vacations and personal days have been cancelled. Not my business how a local community government runs its own police force. But I absolutely am going to have plenty to say about the idea of a state of emergency where the conditions are such that private citizens are confined to their homes and not allowed to have some friends over for a game of cards or to watch a ballgame.

Allow me to begin sticking directly with Chester before I open discussion on the idea in general. I was not pleased to hear the following statement from the Mayor: “We need law enforcement to step up, to vigorously go after any violator; our number one priority is to get guns off the street then drugs and try to make our neighborhoods as safe as we possibly can.” So let me get this straight. The first priority is to remove guns from citizens (something that is legal, at least for now). The second priority is to go after drugs (which are illegal). Now that makes complete sense when one thinks about the public’s reaction to suddenly finding themselves under martial law. When a city will tear itself apart because its shitty basketball team wins the NBA Championship (I am talking to you suckass L.A.), one can only imagine how a populace can respond to having their city locked down when they have done nothing wrong. But just because it makes sense for government officials to take guns out of the hands of citizens doesn’t make it right. That is confiscation. Will they take guns away from lawful owners? I guess time will tell.

But more to the point is the fact that the actions of a few hoodlums in Chester has resulting in a dramatic violation of the civil rights of American citizens in a town in America! The population of Chester is now locked in their home from 9:00 pm to 6:00 am, when they have done absolutely nothing wrong! That means that people could not go to their local watering hole to enjoy the Red Sox sweeping Manny and the Dodgers on Sunday night with their pals. That means that the husbands and wives from three households cannot get together for dinner without going to the government officials and getting permission (and I bet paying a fee for a permit as well). It means that freedom no longer exists in Chester, Pennsylvania. And all because a city 15 minutes north of Wilmington (where the crime rate is almost 14 per 1,000 residents) has had 4 murders in a week. Did I mention that Chester is not new to murder? The murder rate in Chester is two and a half times higher than the average US rate.

I find it appalling that American citizens are being treated this way. I see absolutely no justification for what is happening in Chester. But I want to talk about more than simply stupid little Chester, Pennsylvania. I want to address the concept in general. I know that I called it martial law above, and that is not really accurate. Martial law actually involves military forces taking control, usually because civilian authorities cannot. But it is very similar to martial law in the concepts that curfews are imposed and many civil liberties are suspended under martial law, just as has happened in Chester. Therefore I am referring to it as martial law in Chester, even though I understand the difference. It is simply easier to type martial law that to write out “state of emergency with curfews and suspension of civil liberties”. I fail to understand how this mayor has the right to impose such suspension of civil liberties on his population.

I am not a fan of martial law. I absolutely understand the concept and when there are benefits to using martial law to restore order. As I recall, D13 was thinking about offering a guest commentary on martial law, as he understands the rules and laws around it far better than most. But the short answer for me is that I can see some benefits in very limited situations. But as a general rule I am against martial law, or the suspension of civil liberties in any way. We have seen the concept put to work in the US before, however. What is now Hawaii was put under martial law from the day of the bombing in Pearl Harbor in 1941 until late in 1944. After Katrina, we saw martial law in New Orleans. Because no such term exists in Louisiana law, it was never declared. However Mayor Nagin suspended the requirement for police officers to adhere to Miranda rules and suspended civil liberties publicly. Then of course there was the fact that roughly 15,000 military troops were in New Orleans patrolling the streets.

Then there is the strange story of Schenectady, New York. Amid mass corruption within the police force in the city of over 60k, the Mayor was considering declaring martial law and disbanding the police force. The martial law would remain in effect until a new police force could be formed. As far as I know, this did not come to pass, but it was on the table, along with increased firearm regulation such as requiring permits for EVERY type of weapon, be it a hunting rifle or a pistol, and the reporting of every box of ammunition purchased. I understand the Mayor’s frustrations. But is the answer really to suspend civil liberty and then strictly regulate everything having to do with firearms because the police force had some DUI and abuse issues? So the folks who legally had guns were the problem. Answer? Punish everyone else.

So I am interested in hearing what everyone has to say about the concept of suspending civil liberties in American cities for whatever reason you can come up with. Is there ever a justification for treating American citizens as though they are criminals, suspending their rights and limiting their freedom? It seems to me that every single time that such action is taken, or considered, it is the result of a few criminals rather than an overwhelming popular action or attitude. So I struggle with the fact that many innocent people are being punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong. This is still America, and we are still supposed to be a nation of free people. As free people, martial law is not something that really fits.

My problem with the entire issue stems from that single fact. Innocent American citizens, who have done absolutely nothing wrong at all, are put in a situation where they are no longer free. And this happens not because of anything in their control, but because someone else did something wrong, and the government agencies charged with doing a job are failing to accomplish that task. So because a police force is impotent or corrupt, the citizens are punished and the city loses freedom. I simply cannot rectify that in my head. But I have an open mind as always. So I am eager to hear what everyone else thinks about the concept. I have barely scratched the surface on this subject, so I imagine we should end up with a lot of information provided by you SUFA faithful.

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Comments

  1. USW, This is as far as I could read . . . “But the last 8 days have resulted in 4 murders in Chester (we had 4 last night in Durham).”

    You ACCEPT THAT? Four murders a night is a normal thing for you? Just how callous have you become that four people being murdered each and every night is a normal everyday occurrence in N.C.or anywhere else for that matter?

    I know that you are upset about the so-called “state of emergency”, and so am I. What we have here is a police department that is not doing their job, quite possibly for many underlying reasons(way too numerous to list here). Instead of martial law, the mayor should be asking for assistance from county and state law enforcement – perhaps even federal. Rant and rave about that all you want to, but PLEASE do not say that daily murders are just a way of life as your statement implies!

    It is my personal opinion that each and every citizen that has never been convicted of a felony should be able to carry a concealed and loaded firearm. We do here in Arizona, and most violent crimes are committed in those cities that prohibit the carrying of guns. The mayor of Chester PA should take note of that.

    • G.A.

      As demonstrated, government is useless in preventing murder.

      • Maybe. Maybe not. If we removed government, I imagine the murder rate would skyrocket.

        Only one way to find out though…

        • USWeapon says:

          Easy to imagine. But it is at least as likely that this would not be true in most places. People do not choose not to be violent simply because government exists.

          • A violent person who doesn’t act on their violent tendencies because of fear of being arrested is still a violent person. Some people choose to act in spite of this. Some people are stopped by it.

            Remove the check and you think violence would be unaffected?

            • Mathius,

              Fear of the Government does not “dissuade” violence at all.

              If such a person is afraid of the consequences from government, they will equally be fearful of the consequences from their neighbors too.

              The only time violent people get a ‘free run’ is when the People are confused during the withdrawal of government force, such as the LA riots a decade or so ago.

              The People thought the government was going to act – thus, they themselves didn’t act, and violence went unchecked. As soon as the People themselves realized that government was standing back and only watching, they acted on their own behalf, and the violent offenders retreated.

              • Mathius says:

                This is fun, Flag, but a serious question, and I would appreciate a non-complicated answer if possible.

                You piss me off for whatever reason and I stab you in an alley on your way home. Maybe a few people have a hunch, but there is nothing concrete. You live alone and have nobody willing to foot the bill to hire a private investigative force.

                In modern America: Colombo shows up at my door and asks me a couple questions (“oh, it’s probably nothing, but just one more thing…”), the lab takes DNA samples from the scene, video surveillance is analyzed, my alibi is checked. I warrant gives them access to my home and DNA. I go to trial, a jury of my peers reaches a verdict, and a judge sentences me. I then go to a jail and am kept there for the rest of my life safely out of harm’s way.

                In your scenario: What happens? Who proves it was me? Who pays for the lab testing? Who has the standing to demand I supply an alibi or open my home to a search? In short, you suggest that your neighbors would be self policing, but how exactly does that work?

            • Common Man says:

              Matt;

              You logic is not sound. I don’t worry about my home in the country being invaded by thugs because the sherriff can get to my house within 30 minutes, but because I am capable of defending myself.

              The bad guy does not fear punishment from the law, he fears that he may wind up dead by trying to do me or mine harm. That fear does not stem from some written law enforced by a government, it stems from the idea that I might be better armed and a better shot.

              CM

              • Mathius says:

                It stems from both.

                I can think of a few people I would have put in the hospital if it weren’t for fear of the law. It certainly wasn’t fear that they were “a better shot.” They so richly deserved it, but I couldn’t justify the risk/reward balance because Uncle Sam had this thumb on the scale.

                A (really bad) movie puts this in perspective. Did you see Minority Report?

              • Common Man says:

                Matt;

                No on the movie.

                I would be willing to bet that your decision not to inflict violence was not because you were worried about legal repercussions, but more from your own morals and values.

                A few blogs ago I mentioned 3 personal encounters I had in past years. I chose not to engage mortal damage, although I could have legally. The fear of being arrested never entered into my mind, and had nothing to do with how I handled each situation.

                I chose NOT to take a life, but I also chose not to be harmed.

                The government did not teach me and had no bearing on my decisions, but my morals and ethics did.

                Evil does not fear the government or laws, they fear being stopped from being able to enact more evil.

                CM

              • Mathius says:

                See the movie. It’s awful, but I think it’ll shed some light on this debate.

                Anyway, I’m out. Good luck, and good night.

        • Mathius,

          What murder rate? Given that government has slaughtered more 200 million of their own people in the 20th Century, I dispute your claim!

          Murder, on an individual basis, has no relation to government at all. People kill other people because they want the other person dead.

    • USWeapon says:

      G.A.

      What a strange twist you have taken here. When did I ever say that 4 murders in a night was somehow acceptable. I noted that there were 4 in Durham last night not because I approve of them or because I don’t care. I noted it merely to point out that we had more in a day than they did in 8 days and we in the triangle are NOT declaring a state of emergency and stripping citizens of their civil liberties.

      I have not become so callous that 4 murders is acceptable or that it can be accepted as normal. I never said so, and I don’t know how it is that you determined that I was implying that it was OK. I never said any such thing. Your decision to attack only that small and insignificant part of my post is upsetting.

      USW

      • This was not intended as an attack even though you surmised it as such for the same reason that I surmised that you condoned those four murders with an omission in both of our statements. I omitted that I was not attacking your post and you omitted that you did not condone those four murders . . .

        This is a simple lawyers trick, this pointing out omissions, I have experienced it many times during my career – usually at the receiving end.

        My entire point was my shock at seeing, what appeared to be so blatant a statement, that it was no big deal that they had four murders in eight days since your town had four murders in only one night.

        I also stated that this police department was not doing its job. Perhaps I should have added that the city government was overreacting to the point of being extreme for the same reason – they are not doing what they were elected to do.

        We here in Arizona are having the same problem with the Obama administration not doing the job that they were elected to do, and that is precisely why we have enacted SB1070. This too is starting to become an overreaction since our state legislature is considering a bill that would deny citizenship to anchor babies of illegal aliens – I do believe that bill will never pass as it is just plain unconstitutional. I do not believe that our state government is out of control like the city government of Chester, PA. and the federal government headed up by Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.

  2. Mathius says:

    Congress [nor anyone else, for that matter] shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  3. Mathius says:

    USW:

    When a city will tear itself apart because its shitty basketball team wins the NBA Championship (I am talking to you suckass L.A.)

    Translation: “Gee, Mathius, I’m so jealous. Please don’t tell anyone. I have to keep covering it up by insulting your superior city’s superior athleticism or else everyone might catch on.”

    Adding, come on – who doesn’t love a good riot every now and then?

    • Sorry. I just don’t see the reason to tear your own city down over a BASKETBALL game. Championship or not. ‘Course I’d as soon watch paint dry as a Bball game anyway.

      NASCAR. Yep.
      Baseball. Yep.
      Football. Hell Yes.
      Basketball. See above comment.

      Wreck your city (or town) over ANY kind of game? Are you Kiddin’? Of course you are DPM! 😀

    • USWeapon says:

      Mathius,

      Yes, I am still a little bitter over the loss. But I don’t believe it stemmed from some feeling that LA is superior in any way. I have been a Celtic fan my whole life, and that means conditioned to hate the Lakers. I don’t like LA for the cesspool that it has become.

      • I resent that. LA has not “become” a cesspool.

        It was always a cesspool. That’s part of what makes it great.

        That and the amazing burgers.

        And the amazing women.

        And the amazing beaches.

        And the amazing weather.

        And the amazing diversity.

        • Common Man says:

          Matt;

          Cesspool = yes it is and very, very cramped too boot.

          Burgers = I have eaten many better in much nicer cities and at about half the price.

          Women, yes I will give you that on looks alone, but for the most part they lack a decent personality or one at all.

          Beaches – try St. Thomas or St. John’s far, far better, less crowded and much cleaner.

          weather ???? you have smog on good days and on bad days you can’t breath

          Diversity – Yep fruits and nuts and crazies and Hollywood

          You need to travel and raise your standards.

          CM

          • Mathius says:

            Cesspool = yes it is and very, very cramped too boot. Not really.. not sure where you were in LA, but it’s actually very spread out…

            Burgers = I have eaten many better in much nicer cities and at about half the price. BLASPHEMY!

            Women, yes I will give you that on looks alone, but for the most part they lack a decent personality or one at all. I was only talking about looks, but I think you underestimate the awesomeness of the personalities of a lot of cali girls (note, careful here, I have three cali girl sisters)

            Beaches – try St. Thomas or St. John’s far, far better, less crowded and much cleaner. I’ve been to some nicer beaches, but ours are still great. And again, I’m not sure which beach you went to, but they’re very clean and, except for certain ones, not particularly crowded except on holidays and such.

            weather ???? you have smog on good days and on bad days you can’t breath Bah. There hasn’t been a smog day in a decade in LA (they used to cancel school, just like a snow day out East). But the air is quite breathable, and the smog (which is actually naturally occurring – we were originally known as the Bay of Smokes) makes for spectacular sunsets.

            Diversity – Yep fruits and nuts and crazies and Hollywood Amen. You can’t cook up anything worth eating with only one ingredient.

            You need to travel and raise your standards. I have. Nothing compares. Only thing it’s missing is my wife. So, alas, I live out here. :-/

            • Common Man says:

              Matt;

              Yes LA is spread out, but the homes are stacked on top of each other and yards (on the average) don’t exist.

              Since I didn’t meet All the women of LA I can only assume that there are some out there with charming personalities. But, you should visit my home state of Indiana and witness some of the Farm personalities bred there.

              Burgers = first and foremost the best burgers are NEVER at a chain. If they still exist here are a couple to seek in Ft. Wayne, IN. ‘Powers’ in downtown. Well’s street tavern on Well’s street. Cork n Cleaver on the north side next to the Marriott. And last but not least Joe’s bar in New Haven.

              And although I have never been to NY, my brother-in-law tells me that although it is crowded, and you get lost easy, food wise it is at the top of the world…real pastrami, pizza, and some of the best Italian cooking this side of Italy.

              CM

              • I left SoCal. Won’t go back. Burgers? Try Fat Burger in Nevada – the one I go to is in Henderson at the Henderson Fiesta Casino Hotel. Best burger I have ever had, and I have had them all over the world.

                Women? Sorry folks, I have been married to the same one for over forty years now and refuse to change(Even though very tiny bikini’s abound at Lake Havasu City and Lake Mead in the summertime).

                Air & Weather? Try Arizona – NO smog, just some dry heat and wind(most days there are no clouds to be seen in the sky)

                Diversity? I have had that up to my elbows, and that is only ONE reason I left SoCal. If you want fruits & Nuts in AZ, go to Sedona.

  4. Dread Pirate Mathius says:

    Hmm…

    From a logistical standpoint, I can see the benefits of martial law (or something similar). It separates the wheat from the chaff – anyone out at night is a criminal. This makes it far easier to arrest the baddies. But, like dolphins in a tuna net, you’re going to get some incorrect catch as well.

    That said, there are certain rights that we as human being have. Among these are card games and free assembly. If you wish to deprive me of one of these (though there is, of course, never an acceptable reason), I better have done something wrong to warrant it in the first place.

    A major pet peeve of mine is when I am punished for the actions of others. As a middle sibling, this is deeply embedded. I have been restricted in what I could do because my older brother was out of control (but I was well behaved, so why was I punished?). Then, when I had shown enough responsibility, it was my younger reaped the benefits. Then, when you apply this to society, you can see it everywhere. I can’t jaywalk (though I do anyway) because some idiot probably failed to look both ways. I can’t drive the way I want because some idiot was reckless. I can’t do drugs because some idiot got high and committed a crime. And on and on and on.

    To expand on that, it seems to me, that flashy actions by a tiny minority have a very disproportionate impact. IE: one person tries to blow up his shoes on an airplane, every American for the rest of time will have to have his shoes x-rayed before flying. Four people are murdered over the course of 8 days (by the way, were these thugs who were killed or just normal citizens?) and suddenly, a whole town is placed on lockdown. BAH

    To recap: no one has the right to control my life. But even that they’re going to anyway, I would prefer it that they only control my life in response to my actions – not the actions of someone else.

    Sent from my iPad from the Pirate’s Cove

  5. I sure hope the curfew doesn’t lead to racial profiling

    • Where is the ACLU??

      • Dread Pirate Mathius says:

        ACLU only gets involved when a specific subset gets picked on. Not when it’s everyone.

        • According to an Article I just read. Chester is approx. 50% or so Latino and most of those are illegal. They just had an election there where they gave everyone 6 votes because they were so ordered by the justice dept. to make it “fair” for all races to be represented.

          I will hold off commenting further on this for now. Or have I misunderstood and have the wrong Chester, PA

          • I read the article about the 6 votes-Am I reading this right-they have given legal citizens extra votes so they can represent the illegal population?

          • Actually, I believe that was Port Chester, NY

  6. I have to say in this case, I dont really see how the martial law is going to help. My guess is that the people who are doing the murdering, are not going to follow what the mayor states. So the actually law following people are the ones getting stomped. In this case, there were other options they should have considered before this one.

  7. Common Man says:

    Although I don’t believe that the majority of government officials (local, city, state or federal) have individual rights in mind when they transact government business, there maybe some logic to actions of this sort.

    Most law abiding folks are in their homes from 10:00 pm through 6:00 am, at least those that live in dities. I mean the average Joe and Joan Smith are at home eating dinner, helping the kids with homework, watching TV and getting ready for the next day. And since most Joe’s and Joan’s usually follow established laws, telling them to sit tight during times they are normally doing so helps to eliminate overall human traffic; therefore reducing the number of people wandering around. Less people about means you have less issues and less chance of criminal activities. (If the preditors don’t have any prey, they don’t eat)

    Maybe the Mayor (at least in this case) is using math to minimize illegal activity, or at least minimize innocent people being harmed. An act of this nature, by pure math, better ensures that those out and about during a curfew are in fact lawbreakers.

    Does it mean that Martial Law will eventually decrease or elliminate lawlessness…to a point maybe. At least until the law abiding decide they are not going to put up with the loss of their freedoms.

    I can understand the logic employed by the Mayor, but that does not mean it is right. Was he looking out for the safety of his citizens…probably not. It is more likely that he was only concerned with getting control of a situation his regiem no longer had control of.

    Martial Law, in it’s truest sense is NOT ever a situation we want to see used on or against the citizens of America; especially if it involves our Military; If for no other reason than it sets a precident.

    In my opinion this mayor should be impeached as he has clearly violated both the rights and trust of his constituants.

    If his only course of actions against violence is a more tenacious violence, then he is not fit to serve, and cannot be trusted to uphold the rights and liberties of the citizens. Punishing or restricting those who are lawfull is not going to eliminate those that are not lawfull.

    I know I kind of rambled a bit, but my point is that I understand the logic employed by the mayor, however it was and is the wrong solution.

    CM

  8. ‘Scuse me while I reel in shock for moment. W T F ????????????

    First let me say I’m kind of like G.A. in one respect. FOUR murders in 8 days is common place where you live!? Much less 4 IN ONE DAY!!??

    Man, am I glad I don’t live where you do!! We’re kind of sort a used to maybe hearing that every now and again around the ATL down here, but common place? OMG!!!

    OK. Shock and Awe over.

    I see no reason, as any sane person today should for Martial(like) Law at any time in any Local or State area unless there was a hell of a lot more justification than crime. Dispicable and terrible crimes without doubt. But still not enough to warrant that. If that is all the justification that is needed, then Martial Law would be declared by now in every community in the United States!

    Just exactly what in the hell is that city government doing? And are the citizens in that town not jumping on that mayor like a Chicken on a June Bug yet? They are not already in the streets with signs and screaming at the top of their lungs yet? By granny I would be! The first day. Could this be because they live in the People’s Republic of New England and are used to that kind of shitty treatment by their government? Or are they just in shock momentarily?

    I just don’t see that happening around my neck o’ the woods. Maybe it can happen here and I’m just niave about how far a government official is willing to go to commit what would certainly be Political suicide here at least. But of one thing I have no doubt. There would be an uproar here that they would hear in California right after an announcement such as that.

    • Four people murdered in one day is awful, but I fail to see the need for such shock. More than that die every day from preventable car accidents, preventable illness, drug use, and a host of other causes.

      What really gets me is that something flashy happens (a few murders) and the magnitude of the response is so disproportionate. What if – what if – people looked at the number of deaths from cigarettes this way? 1,000,000,000 Mathius Points says that cigarettes would either be outlawed entirely or cancer would be cured by now.

      It drives me nuts that we ignore the big things and go so crazy over the small things. Four people isn’t even a drop in the bucket – it’s a small part of a small part of one drop in a swimming pool.

      Perspective, please.

      • Murders do happen every day yes. They happen here as well as everywhere else. But should we be that used to or hardened to that fact? I don’t think so. But that is my opinion.

        I know you live in CA, DPM, but I live in a small town in GA. Yes, we have murders here also. And now with Meth being in EVERY corner of the United States, from the Inner city to the Small country community, murder and crime becomes worse every day.

        To be honest, I too am more shocked at the Martial(like) Law that has been imposed because of it. But I also am just not so hardened to wanton murder as to just see it talked about like it’s nothing BUT everyday life in a neighborhood. I like to think of this not a niavety, but humanity and compassion for my fellow man (and woman).

  9. Judy Sabatini says:

    Hi Everyone

    First off, I hope all you father’s here had a great Father’s Day yesterday, and it was a great day for you.

    Second, all I’m going to say,just because of the few bad apples out there, the rest has to suffer. Is this what we have to look forward to now, having lock downs in our cities? It’s a shame it had to come to that, in making good citizens feel like the criminals in being forced into staying in their homes, and not being allowed out. I guess it’s just one more of our rights and more freedom being taken away from us.

    Hope all will have a good day today.

    • Let’s see if it holds up – I don’t think the mayor has this kind of authority and someone will challenge it. I don’t think your right to free assembly is in too much danger. In fact, if and when the courts re-affirm this right, it will probably be even more iron clad than before. This is, I think, long term a good thing for freedom.

      Thanks for the father’s day wishes! This was my first year where I was eligible due to my new daughter. She’s a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier named Latke 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Hi Matt

        You had me going there until I got further into your post, thought you and your lovely wife had a baby, but congrats anyway on your new addition.

        I do agree with what you said, was merely stating my opinion.

        Hope you’re doing well.

    • Kind of like us oil field workers being put out of work so we don’t kill any more pelicans..

      • Common Man says:

        Was;

        Truely one of the most absurd decisions / acts Potus has made since he took office. but given the moron is bent on crushing the Republic while furthering his cause to turn our country into a non-functioning socialst nation, not surprising.

        For your benefit I hope things change around soon.

        CM

  10. SK Trynosky Sr says:

    I think that there is a much larger question here, it is one we asked more often 15 years ago when most cities were out of control but which, when crime stats came down, went away. Now, we may have to re-invent the wheel for those who did not pay attention.

    Chester PA has less than one half the population it had in 1960 (rust belt city?)

    32% of the families in Chester have no man in the home.

    The population of Chester is 84% minority (does this finally make those folks the majority?)

    The vast majority of Chester residents are far below the poverty line.

    Chester was to be “saved” by a new stadium, and a new casino.

    What exactly are we to do about places like this and like Camden and Newark and Detroit and for that matter Philadelphia? In my own humble opinion they are all the result of good intentions gone amok. Minority governments for the past thirty years with a steady decline in quality of life across the board, corruption on a scale only rivaled by Afghanistan. Will a curfew help? Not anymore than the casino.

    Maybe Rowe is onto something. Perhaps we should not only urge all law abiding citizens to carry but require them to do so.

    Is drug legalization the answer, or just a lot more nails in the coffin?

    • Easy solution. Genesis 19:24-25.

      • SK Trynosky Sr says:

        That’s just kicking the problem upstairs. It’s on your watch.

        • Mathius says:

          Ok, I’ll apply the same solution.

          Where exactly does one go to purchase large quantities of brimstone? Costco?

          • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

            I don’t think they sell it in a pre-mix. You have to get the recipe from the Antichrists cookbook. Ask Obama, he may have a spare copy. Joe Sestak might have one too and he is a lot closer.

            • Mathius says:

              Listen, if I’m going to have to mix it myself, I’m going to use the Jerry Falwell Secret Family Recipe. That was one man who know how to whip up a mean fire and brimstone.

    • SK,

      Little Rock has a high murder and violent crime rate, despite the number of legal gun owners and CCP’s. But most of the violence there is “black on black”. I think the police have given up on making any true impact. Consider they are treated as the bad guy (pigs)whenever they patrol. After a crime is committed, no one saw anything, protecting the drug dealers and pimps. It reminds me of a battered wife, who lies to protect the man beating her, except done on a community level. I can only think that some people must like the smell of $hit, to keep swimming in it for all their lives.

      Demographics
      Historical populations
      Census Pop. %±
      1930 59,164

      1940 59,285 0.2%
      1950 66,039 11.4%
      1960 63,658 −3.6%
      1970 56,331 −11.5%
      1980 45,794 −18.7%
      1990 41,856 −8.6%
      2000 36,854 −12.0%
      Est. 2008 29,542 [12] −19.8%

      As of the 2006-2008 American Community Survey 3-Year Estimates, Chester had 29,542 people. 16.4% were White, 78.0% were African American, 0.0% were Native American, 0.3% were Asian, 0.2% were Pacific Islander, 3.8% were from other races, and 1.3% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino data was not available. 34.8% of all people were living below the poverty level.

      As of the census[13] of 2000, there were 36,854 people, 12,814 households, and 8,124 families residing in the city. The population density was 7,605.4 people per square mile (2,933.9/km²). There were 14,976 housing units at an average density of 3,090.5/sq mi (1,192.2/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 18.94% White, 75.70% African American, 0.20% Native American, 0.61% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 3.03% from other races, and 1.51% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 5.39% of the population.

      There were 12,814 households out of which 32.7% had children under the age of 18 living with them,

      24.8% were married couples living together,
      32.1% had a female householder with no husband present,
      and 36.6% were non-families.

      31.2% of all households were made up of individuals and 11.2% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.64 and the average family size was 3.34.

      In the city the population was spread out with 29.8% under the age of 18, 13.0% from 18 to 24, 26.8% from 25 to 44, 18.6% from 45 to 64, and 11.8% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 31 years. For every 100 females there were 89.1 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 84.7 males.

      The median income for a household in the city was $23,703, and the median income for a family was $29,436. Males had a median income of $29,528 versus $21,005 for females. The per capita income for the city was $9,052. About 22.8% of families and 27.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 36.9% of those under age 18 and 21.8% of those age 65 or over.

      • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

        LOI

        Re your first paragraph, you are right on the money here.

        Personal experience showed me that the poverty pimps have the folks twisted around their little fingers. The yell “racism” and everybody backs off. The pimps,like Sharpton, are never called to account for their lies and conduct but wind up as guests on “O’Reilly”.

        The interesting thing is the lack of political guts out there. The one bright thing I can say about Rudy Guillaini and to a lesser extent Ed Koch was that they did what had to be done, took the flak, got called the name,”fascist” and improved everybody’s life.

        There are three things about Rudy’s administration that struck me as being indicators of just how successful his policies were. The City Council, in his first term established term limits just to get rid of him, even taking the risk that they too would lose their jobs. Term limits were lifted on his successor (Bloomberg) as well as the members in his City Council and finally that if you talked to the intelligentsia on the upper East Side and Upper West side of Manhattan about voting for him in his second term, they all feigned horror at his policies but, in the privacy of that booth, they voted for him.

        Moral of the story, do the right thing. Govern like you mean it, be prepared to be voted out of office and pay absolutely no attention to anyone other than the ordinary man on the street. Ed Koch’s mantra for his first two terms was “How am I doing?” He never asked the press, only the people. During his third term, when he wanted to become Mayor for life, he started trying to be liked, it was the kiss of death. The City voted to replace him with arguably the least qualified mayor in recent history, Dave Dinkins. Nice man but clueless. Anything Dinkins did right was by accident.

        Politicians have to back the cops. Period. If there is corruption, deal with it fast and ruthlessly then get back to backing the cops. I’ll never forget that advice some Scot Chieftain gave to Bonny Prince Charlie before the battle of Culloden, “If a man fears you he’ll fight for you, if a man loves you, he’ll die for you.” I always thought that Rudy G. succeeded admirably at this with the NYPD.

        • “The City Council, in his first term established term limits just to get rid of him, even taking the risk that they too would lose their jobs. Term limits were lifted on his successor (Bloomberg) as well as the members in his City Council”

          Sounds all to familiar, the people support the machine, that keeps giving them what they want. I think term limits should be required for every elected office.

  11. Common Man says:

    And on another note: Actions of this nature further validate my belief that ‘farm liv’en is the life for me’. If you live off the grid and away from the masses there is less chance of everything that lead up to this involving you. If you have critters there is less chance of someone sneeking up on you. I have not heard of anyone (yet) being ‘tractor-jacked’. I don’t worry about walking around my property and being violated at anytime of day or night. (Although I have had a run in with a skunk, or at least the dog did. Same result though for both of us…nasty. The skunk did preform his LAST act of defiance as a result)

    When you live in the boonies, you see things coming long before they become a threat, although I have never had a serious human threat living in the boonies.

    Not sure why folks like to live like sardenes in a can. I did for a while and although we had great neighbors, I was always anxious; glad I don’t any longer.

    Some disadvantages I guess when you have to drive at least 30 minutes to buy things like grocieries, hardware, etc., but for the most part no worries.

    CM

    • CM, my only experience with city life was when I was 13 and 14 in downtown crapville New Orleans in ’76 and ’77.

      Need I explain further why country livin’ is the only way to go for me as well?

      • Common Man says:

        ESOM;

        And it is typically cooler in the country during those hot, hot summers. Plus you can grow your own food, or shoot it as the case may be.

        CM

        • Bama dad says:

          Love that growing your own food. So far in the last two weeks me and the little woman have canned 42 quarts of beans and 12 quarts of potatoes. Tomatoes and okra should start next week.

          • Common Man says:

            Bama;

            You are way ahead of me, only thing looking good so far are the Rasberries (red and black) and I can’t take alot of credit for them.

            I did get a late start this year given we had minor frost in late April, but peppers, beans, peas, parsnips, kohlrabi and tomatoes will be along soon. Oh, and my galic, asparagrass, horseradish and rubarb are right on track as is my chives.

            Didn’t grow corn this year because my neighbor planted 10 acers of sweat corn to sell at the local market.

            Can’t wait for a dinner of vine ripened beefsteaks, fresh sweat corn, venison backstraps and steamed asparagrass…and a cold frosty red ale from brother-in-laws home brew…Damn!!

            You can’t get that kind of food in the city.

            CM

  12. It seems to me that the rules restraining government, including suspending civil liberties or toher basic rights, constitutional or not, written precisely for when there are unusual circumstances or emergencies. It’s not in time of peace we ahve to worry about our rights, it is in times of Crisis, as the founders learned intimately at the hands of England.

  13. posting for comments

  14. Judy Sabatini says:

    8 dead among 52 shot across city over weekend
    Comments

    June 21, 2010
    Sun-Times Media Wire

    Eight people were killed and at least 44 others were shot across the city Friday night into early Monday, including a baby girl who suffered a graze wound to the neck when gunfire erupted at a Near West Side barbecue.

    Those killed included a 28-year-old man found shot in the chest about 3 a.m. Monday in the 7500 block of South Halsted Street near a South Side church, according to Gresham District police. A passing motorist found the man, identified as Credale Woulard, of 7711 S. Ada St., according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office. He was dressed in women’s clothing and was found lying dead on the sidewalk.

    In the South Side Englewood neighborhood, 44-year-old Darryl Dunn was found dead with a gunshot wound to the head in the 7200 block of South Marshfield Avenue at 2:02 a.m. Monday, authorities said.

    About 1:52 a.m. Monday, 25-year-old Larry Johnson of 14003 Park Ave. in Lansing was shot in the 6400 block of South Ingleside Avenue in the South Side Woodlawn neighborhood. He died nearly two hours later at a hospital, police said.

    Durwin Hackman, 20, of 3117 W. 172nd St. in Hazel Crest, was killed in a shooting that also injured two others about 11:10 p.m. in the 700 block of West 111th Street in the Far South Side Roseland neighborhood. The three victims were involved in a verbal altercation over a female when other males began to shoot before fleeing the scene.

    A 19-year-old man was also taken to Christ Hospital with a gunshot wound to his abdomen and he was listed in critical condition, police said. The third victim, a 21-year-old man, was in “stable” condition at Christ Hospital with a gunshot wound to his left arm.

    Three men, two of whom were related, were found fatally shot in the West Side Lawndale neighborhood early Saturday in what police consider gang-related slayings.

    The victims were 25-year-old Waseem Smith, 45-year-old Barry Smith and 28-year-old Leon Smith, according to the medical examiner’s office. They were shot just after 3 a.m. in the 2300 block of South Springfield Avenue, police said. Police found two of the men in separate cars and the third lying on the street outside one of the cars.

    A 19-year-old man died Sunday night after being shot in the head Friday night in the 1800 block of West 87th Street, police said. Pierre York of 8647 S. Wood St. was walking down the street with a friend when they were confronted by a gunman, who fled after shooting York, police said.

    In addition to the homicides, at least nine people were shot early Monday, including four men and a baby girl who were injured when gunfire erupted during an outside barbecue on the Near West Side early Monday.

    The shooting happened at 12:11 a.m. at 1334 W. Hastings St, according to a Monroe District police lieutenant. Several people attending the barbecue heard shots fired and “everybody started running,” the lieutenant said.

    One shot struck a 1-year-old girl, who suffered a graze wound to the neck. Four men were also shot, police said. One of the victims, a 34-year-old man, was taken to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the abdomen. The other three men suffered injuries that were not believed to be life-threatening.

    On Sunday, at least 10 people were shot, including a 16-year-old girl who was critically wounded when shots rang out during a fight on a South Side street.

    The girl was standing outside at 1251 E. 78th St. at 8:15 p.m. when several fights broke out and one person pulled out a handgun, according to a South Chicago District police captain. The girl was struck in the back and taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn in critical condition.

    On an especially violent Saturday, at least 21 people were shot. That included five people injured in four shootings in the West Side Humboldt Park neighborhood, just blocks from the annual Puerto Rican festival.

    Following Friday’s violent storms, at least one person was injured in a shooting on the South Side.

    • That does make it sound more serious than USW’s comments.

      So what are the possible responses from a mayor?

      Martial Law: shut down the city

      Tell every citizen to arm themselves

      Supplement the police with a posse

      Do nothing in particular

      Remove all social services from the city: the loser dirtbags pulling welfare and doing drugs and shooting up their neighbors will leave and go somewhere else.

      Some of these are serious and some not . . . what are the options?

  15. Mathius,

    Mathius, mathius, matt…..

    Do not bother with fantasy scenarios. You can make up any dream you like, supposing any circumstance you like, any response of other people as you wish – and not one single moment or thread of it will disprove me or prove you.

    Social theories regarding freedom are apodictic.

    Basically, for you to be King you must be free to act like a King. Thus freedom is the core post from which all human action is anchored.

    In the face of the irrefutable Law of Nature, all the mythical scenarios you attempt to provide must be fantasy – that is, occurs only in your head.

    Thus, such attempts of scenarios as a validation or falsification is not only superfluous but completely useless.

    • Mathius says:

      Not sure what this is in reference to….

      • Mathius,

        Response to your scenario “ploy” above:

        This is fun, Flag, but a serious question, and I would appreciate a non-complicated answer if possible

        • Mathius says:

          It’s not so fantastical, Flag. People would commit murder even in your perfect world. We know how they respond in the real world and I’m trying to understand what happens in your society.

          • Mathius,

            ….about the same thing that happens to those who murder in every society since the beginning of history.

            • Mathius says:

              If they are caught red handed, they’re lynched.

              If they’re suspected, they’re either lynched kicked out. If kicked out, they simply take their belongings and move to another city. Or they feign innocence and get away with it.

              That is, unless they’re powerful, in which case they tell the peons to go boil their heads, and move on with their lives.

              Was that what you meant?

              • Mathius,

                That’s one set of outcomes…. out of an infinite set of outcomes.

                Point being, murderers attack the core of civilization and civilization has long ago (we are talking around 10,000 years ago) figured out what to do about it.

                So, my surprise that you are still struggling with it….

  16. Martial law over a few murders is a gross over-reaction. It is also the wrong reaction, it follows the same logic as gun control: preventative/preemptive enforcement. Law abiding citizens are having their rights trampled because of the actions of criminals. Thus, the criminals took 4 lives, but the mayor is taking everyone else’s.

    I am not saying murder is ok, or blowing it off as nothing, but I am saying that we are making too much fuss about it. We need to catch the perpetrators and fry them. That is all. People die every day. We have to stop placing life above freedom and living in fear. When you value security over freedom you deserve, and get, neither. If you value your life over freedom you will never really live. I am reacting a bit strongly perhaps, I know it would be different for me if I had a family, etc., but seriously, is there nothing in your lives worth dying for? What is the point of living if nothing is worth dying for?

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    This act by the mayor is a violation of the constitution rights of the citizens of Chester, and it should be stopped immediately by the supreme court, and the Mayor reprimanded at minimum for violating his oath, preferably removed from office. I am betting that won’t happen.

    • Bama dad says:

      “Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
      — Ben Franklin

    • Devil’s Advocate, what if it works? Anyone out after 9pm is taken in to custody and questioned. Out for milk or diapers, let go without a fine. Any other reason, fined and brought before a judge, police investigate where they were during those murders, examine their past records. Any of them on probation get their cribs and rides searched.
      What if they catch some of the killers, or just drive them away after
      a few weeks?

      Sidebar, are 24hr stores being required to close? Costco, Walgreens,
      7/11, etc?

      • Mathius says:

        It doesn’t matter if they’re required to close or not. They’ll close anyway. It’s not cost effective to keep the lights on and employ staff if no one is allowed to come and shop. Why would you keep your doors open if the customers aren’t coming?

        So, if we think about this, what does this mean in a town like this?

        The 24 hour stores cut back their hours. All bars, nightlife, movie theaters, etc do the same.

        Cutting back hours means letting employees go.

        Letting them go mean they’re no longer earning money.

        No longer earning money means they are no longer spending money.

        No longer spending money means other stores cut back on employees too.

        Means more unemployment.

        Means even less spending.

        And round and round and round.

        And some of these unemployed people might find crime to be a very attractive option at this point…

        Has anyone actually thought this out?

        • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

          Nobody ever thinks these things out, they just go for the “quickie” solution.

          Back when I started working for “Neighborhood Preservation” in NYC I was full of spit and vinegar and thought that we could turn the whole place around overnight. My Dad, the wise one, cautioned that if it took 40 years to screw something up,it was going to take almost as much time to unscrew it. He was absolutely right.

          Most of the really effective things that we did though didn’t cost that much money. A small, low interest homeowner loan to fix up a house was one hell of a lot cheaper than rebuilding it after it became vacant and burned down. Tax abatements on home improvements were another winner. Do them in a small home neighborhood which is in trouble, couple it with one beat cop taken out of his patrol car and you start building stability and property value. Stabilize one block and then move to the next. Works like a friggen charm. There is one caution though, it will not work on a devastated block. You must get the block at the beginning of the cycle.

          After a neighborhood has been trashed, there is no alternative but starting from scratch. Most times that involves good money after bad which is always guaranteed failure. The Nehemiah plan in NYC, was a classic example of doing it right (no longer in operation because it worked too damn well). It involved building massive quantities of affordable new homes (row houses) creating a new neighborhood. Houses were sold for cost plus a small profit and buyers were required to be financially secure. There were no freebies. You have to have a stake. I always thought that those blocks and blocks of vacant masonry row houses around LaSalle U. in Philadelphis were ideal for a creative plan. Unfortunately the corruption thing in places like Philly always gets in the way.

          Here is one for you folks just for your info. In the early ’90’s it cost the City of NY $ 85,000 in guaranteed loan money to have a developer gut renovate a one bedroom apartment under the Section 8 substantial rehab program. At the exact same time I.D. Robbins was building, masonry, one family row houses in Brownsville and East NY Booklyn on vacant City owned land for $ 51,000 and taking a $ 500.00 per house profit. That folks is why they shut him down, people started asking embarrassing questions. It is the same all over the country. It is not for lack of money that New Orleans has not been rebuilt.

      • As Matt said, there would be secondary negatives. Also, who is to say they would not have caught the bad guys without the martial law? Or maybe even faster if other citizens were on the street? What about the fact that fewer people in an area tends to make it easier for criminal activity since there are fewer eyes? The legitimate people out after curfew would be possibly more likely to be victimized. If it works it will be a coincidence, and it will still have negative side effects.

        • “who is to say they would not have caught the bad guys without the martial law?” History, you have blacks committing crimes against blacks, likely gang related, and the community will not help the police find the killers. Racial loyalty or fear of reprisals outweighs all other concerns.

          The US has issued warnings before starting operations in an area, allowing both the enemy and the innocent a chance to flee or seek shelter. WHAT IF, the police are preparing for urban war, taking on violent gangs, but trying to be PC and not scare the citizens? They can get away with it as long as any “criminal” shot had a previous record. If they shoot a true innocent, expect LA style riots.

          OK, bulldookey, expect riots as soon as the first non-white is shot. Is Sharpton there yet?

          If it works, it will be because the gangs chose to challenge the police for control of the streets, and lost. If it doesn’t work, it’s because the gangs are not that stupid.

  17. Rara Avis says:

    I couldn’t help myself.. just did some math. If you take a pool, say 12′ in diameter and 4′ deep and imagine that it represents the population of the Earth, the area represented by the four murdered individuals is a 1.58mm cube (4.003mm^3).

    There is nothing sacred about human life, we are not unique and special snowflakes. We live, we die. It is random and unpredictable and chaotic. Getting murdered, in the grand scheme of things, is no different from having a heart attack – you are equally dead. And, in time, equally forgotten. Yet we do not life our lives in fear of having heart attacks. If we did, there would be no market for bacon. But one is visceral and sudden – the other you can see creeping up on you day after day as we persist in making the wrong choices.

    I don’t mourn the millions who die every day. I can’t, it’s too much to think about. I wouldn’t be able function. The four victims in this Podunk town in the middle of nowhere? They are as insignificant of specks to all of us as we were to them. We all pretend, in retrospect to mourn the loss of their lives, but we don’t. The only lives we genuinely care about are those few who are intimately connected to our own: friends, family, colleagues. Everyone else is a flash in the pan – you will have no trouble sleeping tonight because of them. You don’t even know their names (neither do I).

    When people react and panic and institute martial law (or something similar) it is because A. they are scared they could also fall victim and are reacting in a desperate attempt to exert control over the uncontrollable or B. it is politically expedient because other people fear they could also fall victim and want someone to exert control over the uncontrollable. Nobody makes a decision like this out of genuine fear of loss of life.

    And, because of that, the response never matches with the cause. The question should never be “how do we get rid of the guns that people use to kill each other?” Because if you remove the guns, knives will do just as well. The question should be “why did they kill each other, and is there anything I can do to address the underlying issues?” Then maybe we could do something about the loss of life. But we always answer the wrong question, so could can we ever expect to reach the right answer?

    My two cents.

    • “There is nothing sacred about human life, we are not unique and special snowflakes. We live, we die. It is random and unpredictable and chaotic. Getting murdered, in the grand scheme of things, is no different from having a heart attack – you are equally dead.”

      I have never heard a snowflake laugh or cry. A person can die in a car accident, and it’s a shame. A person can be killed by being run over multiple times by his ex-wife (he had it coming), and that is an outrage! Unlike snowflakes or Bambi, we have formed a society where murder and violence is not allowed. Outrage is a proper form for a society to react to any violent violation of it’s principals. To dismiss this is to invite further acts of violence, and an eventual end to civilization.

      Why should a mother teach a child not to steal? “Go ahead, take the candy, or the DSI. You are going to die some day, so what does it matter? It matters because society and civilization is based on a moral code. Ethics or principals determine how healthy and prosperous a society is, or un-healthy. These urban centers have lost
      their sense of value,

      There were 12,814 households out of which 32.7% had children under the age of 18 living with them,

      24.8% were married couples living together,
      32.1% had a female householder with no husband present,
      and 36.6% were non-families.

      Over 70% of the US prison population comes a single mother household with no husband present.

      • Rara Avis says:

        I have never heard a snowflake laugh or cry. A person can die in a car accident, and it’s a shame. A person can be killed by being run over multiple times by his ex-wife (he had it coming), and that is an outrage!

        That’s very maudlin. Laughing and crying are nothing special. These are lies we tell ourselves so we can sleep comfortably at night believing that we hold a special place in the universe. We used to tell ourselves that the Sun revolved around us, but science eventually dispelled that. So we told ourselves that we are special because we are the only known example of “intelligent life.” But the truth is that, not only do we not hold a special place in the universe, we hold a special place even on our own planet. The Earth would not miss us if we were gone tomorrow. 1,000 years from now (a geological blink of an eye), you’d be hard pressed to prove we were ever here.

        You are confused in thinking that because society needs you to behave a certain way that that that is the only way to act. Society needs you to be “outraged” by crimes against society (note that it doesn’t care about crimes against individuals, just crimes against society). To the family of the dead, the loss is equally great for the car accident victim or the murdered husband, but to the rest of us, it is just one fewer resource consuming biological organism wandering the Earth competing with us.

        Natural law continences no concern for the dead. Natural law demands the death of your enemies. You die, you do not pass your genes on and there is more for the rest of us. It is society that has pulled the wool over your eyes and made you believe the perpetual lie that we can work in perfect tandem and any assertion of natural law is an outrage.

        We fight a never-ending battle against our darker selves and perch upon the precipice, leaning on the illusory crutch of society as if it were a real thing. But it is not. People will kill. They will lie, they will cheat, they will steal. When the veneer of civilization is pulled back, people will do what people will do. Maybe you can control yourself, but not everyone can, and if they think they can get away with it, murder is never out of the question.

        Why should I be outraged by what is written in our very DNA?

        • “1,000 years from now (a geological blink of an eye), you’d be hard pressed to prove we were ever here.”

          I think the greenies claim diapers and soda bottles will last at least 10,000 years, so will be easy to prove we were here. 2,000 years ago someone said, “turn the other cheek”, in response to being slapped, instead of knife or club the bastard. That viewpoint has led to a less violent co-existence among humans, and growth in our civilization. The industrial age might not have happened if not for that one gentleman those years ago.

          “We fight a never-ending battle against our darker selves and perch upon the precipice”

          And the battle may be as important as the outcome.

          • Rara Avis says:

            1,000 years was figurative. If it makes you more comfortable, you can say 50,000 years (still a geological blink of an eye), or even 1,000,000, it makes no difference, the world is very old and the universe older still.

            But it is true that we are only aberration from a 2,000,000 year history of mankind. Turn the other cheek is a wonderful thought, but the strong had another thought – crucify the upstart. Sure, Rome fell eventually but that’s beside the point. When things are going well people tend to think things are always going to go well and when things are going poorly, people tend to think things will always go poorly.

            It is human nature to extrapolate a trajectory regardless of if they have sufficient scope to do so. It’s like the “greenies” you mentioned who see a warming trend because they do not see the entire picture of ups and downs. Remember global cooling in the 80’s? Let’s try to look at the big picture.

            The battle is never as important as the outcome, because the loser is dead and the winner can write the narrative. We fight the good fight and will continue to do so, but I should remind you that it took three days after Katrina for New Orleans to falling to abject anarchy. You imagine society is more robust and that you are on firm footing, but you aren’t. You’re building castles on top of pillars of sand. Rome will fall again, but perhaps this time, it will take the entire human race with it.

            Nobody will mourn us.

            All this, of course, brings us back to my original point. Four deaths are insignificant in the scope of an insignificant town in an insignificant country on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy in just one part of a cluster. For humans to act according to natural law is no surprise. Outrage is wasted.

            • A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there’s no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?

              • Rara Avis says:

                That’s the spirit!

              • Why is that the spirit? What possible good can this spirit lead to? I just don’t understand what you believe will be achieved if everyone believed what you are stating about man.

              • Rara Avis says:

                Because lying to ourselves has never served us well. We must accept the reality that is rather than the one we wish to me. We are cosmic specs and I do not personally care much at all about four hapless cosmic specs. And neither did their mayor. He used them as cover to make a grand gesture (“I care so much that I am willing to go to such a ridiculous extreme!”).

                If we recognize this truth about ourselves, many things will come into focus.

              • Accepting the truth is always a good thing but I suspect most people have already accepted the combination of good and evil in all men. As far as the actions of the Mayor-I suspect they are a combination of stupid on both sides of the coin-the people blaming and demanding immediate action and the Mayor committing his self to foolishness to satisfy their demand and to keep his job.

    • “I don’t mourn the millions who die every day. I can’t, it’s too much to think about. I wouldn’t be able function.”

      I find I am having a very hard time understanding what point it is that you are making with all your above statements. As far as your specific words I put in quotations-please explain why you wouldn’t be able to function if we don’t actually care about all the deaths.

      • Rara Avis says:

        Have you ever lost someone? You know how that feels. No one could possibly survive if they felt that way about every death of a stranger. It would be debilitating. Crippling.

        So we go through the motions – “oh, it is so awful.” But we don’t really feel it. Our outrage is a pathetic and pale imitation of the real outrage, such as one fees at the loss of a loved one.

        So when people react with outrage over something like this, it is really one of two things: they fear that the same thing could affect them personally (selfish); or they believe they can use others’ fear to their advantage (selfish).

        Martial law was either a panicked attempt at self defense by the mayor (unlikely) or a jaded attempt to use a situation in which people felt scared in order to score political points by appearing to do something about a situation over which he had no real control.

        Will you lose sleep over the four victims? Quick, what are their names? Or do you worry that the world is a violent and random place and you could find yourself a victim at any time and that scares you?

        • No, people cannot emotionally react to every death with the same heart breaking sense of Personal loss, if they did they couldn’t function, the question is why couldn’t they function-you seem to be saying it is because of fear-I suspect it is a combination of both fear and genuine sadness over the loss of life. I believe people want to be safe but they also want other people to be safe. I simply think the conclusions you have drawn are narrow.

  18. Judy Sabatini says:
  19. Just a couple of points. This city has a handgun law that makes it restrictive to own a handgun. Hence a higher murder rate. The other point is even simpler: do they count jails? Because spades is the game of choice in the pokey and if they don’t allow prisoners to congregate in groups larger than 3, I can imagine that there’s some unrest going on…

    The town should take some of its (obviously) wasted cash and open a public gun range and offer classes in gun safety and self defense. Bet that’d clean up their murder rate pronto.

    • Sorry, I am pro-gun, but the restrictive vs open cities do not explain the murder rates.

      http://www.morganquitno.com/cit07pop.htm#25

      • Umm… that chart only shows crime rates. It doesn’t show gun ownership and legal restrictions. The nearest city to me isn’t even listed (Cheyenne, WY). Neither is Casper – both are too small, I guess.

        Your conclusion doesn’t bear with research from John Lott, Vin Suprynowicz, et al.

        • Aaron,

          Why does Texas, with liberal gun laws have four of the safest cities and two of the most dangerous? It isn’t because of the gun laws. My conclusion is not at odds with Mr. Lott, not sure about the other guy. On the whole, more guns does equal less crime, but where gang violence runs rampant, so does gun violence.

          By my fuzzy knowledge, AG=anti-gun, PG=pro-gun

          CITIES OF 500,000 OR MORE POPULATION: (32 cities)

          Safest 10: Most Dangerous 10:

          1 San Jose, CA, AG 1 Detroit, MI ,AG

          2 Honolulu, HI, AG 2 Baltimore, MD ,AG

          3 El Paso, TX, PG 3 Memphis, TN, PG

          4 New York, NY, AG 4 Washington, DC, AG

          5 Austin, TX, PG 5 Philadelphia, PA, AG

          6 San Diego, CA, AG 6 Dallas, TX, PG

          7 San Antonio, TX, PG 7 Nashville, TN, PG

          8 Louisville, KY, PG 8 Charlotte, NC, PG

          9 Fort Worth, TX, PG 9 Columbus, OH, AG??

          10 Jacksonville, FL, PG 10 Houston, TX, PG

          • Then I would question what constitutes “pro gun” and “safe” as well as “anti-gun” and “unsafe.”

            Dallas/Ft Worth have restrictive gun laws including a purchase wait designed to (supposedly) keep guns out of the hands of gangsters. The fact that San Jose, CA is on the “safe” list cracks me up. I have relatives who’ve lived there for ten years and they’ve had two cars stolen, a home invasion robbery, and three other crimes committed against them. I lived in a comparably-sized city in Utah (SLC) and was robbed once.

            Now I live in Wyoming, where nobody asks who has guns, they ask how many people have because whether someone has weapons is a given here, it’s a question of how many. People are also a lot more tolerable.

            I also have relatives in Midland, TX (not far from El Paso). They’ve told me about Texas’ supposedly “pro gun” laws. You can’t even carry a pistol in the back seat or glove box. That’s pro gun? Where I live, you can carry a pistol on your person, in your car, and just about everywhere but the courthouse and Post Office.

            Crime is nonexistent here.

            • Utah is considered a “pro gun” state, but has a passel of laws regarding who, what, when, where, and how you can own, use, and carry a gun. Compared to the Kommunist Republik of Kalifornia, it’s extremely pro-gun. Compared to the real right to bear arms? It sucks.

              That’s basically my point. Pro gun by comparison is a crappy measurement. Kalifornia in comparison to China is extremely pro gun…

            • Your information is very wrong, Aaron. In Texas, we can carry a gun just about anywhere we want to go. You can have a hand gun, shotgun, or rifle in your car at anytime. There is absolutely no wait time to purchase a handgun over three hours and there is no wait time to purchase shotguns, rifles, semi automatics, bazookas, anti aircraft, stingers….you get the picture. We have a gun show every two weeks, in Fort Worth, and individuals can sell to other individuals without a background check. The average background check from dealers takes from 15 minutes to three hours and Texas is not required to keep paper work or records of sales over 36 hours. (although many do)

              we have a conceal and carry law and we are getting ready to vote on open carry. There is no age limit on purchasing weapons…..except for handguns.

              How much more liberal do you want us to be?

              • OK, I’ll admit when I’m wrong. My information was second-hand and had something to do with Jim Crow laws and keeping loaded weapons in the car while traveling.

                Here in Wyo we have all of that except I can’t tell you what the dealer wait on paperwork is since I don’t do government paperwork. Private sale only. 🙂

                We’re also proud users of the gun show loophole here. Gun shows here are about every month if you’re willing to travel. We have one here in our small town annually, plus the annual town-wide garage sale, wherein many will put out guns for sale as well.

                There’s an annual gun show in the next town north, one every 3 months in Cheyenne, and if you want to go into Tax Land (Nebraska), there are more.

              • Good Morning, sir. No offense was intended. Texas, and it sounds like Wyoming, are fierce about their guns. I would hate to see the outcome of any gun restricting laws here. It simply will not be done.

                The three top priorities here..
                1) Don’t mess with our guns…at all
                2) Don’t mess with our women…at all
                3) Don’t mess with our horses…at all

              • Morning D13,

                I was hoping you would weigh in on this. Any thoughts on why Dallas is #6 on the danger list, but it’s twin city Ft. Worth is #9 on the safe side?

                Only guess I can make is gang violence.

              • Hi LOI….I can give you a great reason. Dallas wants to be “Avant Garde”. They hire police chiefs from larger cities thinking they have the answer. They are also tolerant of illegals, gang members, etc. Dallas wants to be like new York or Paris.

                Fort Worth – Zero tolerance on gangs….and I mean ZERO. You think that the issue of a 15 year old boy in El Paso was something…The gang members here, regardless of age, have been “taken out” and that is literally. Fort Worth has relatively ZERO grafitti. Our police are quite dilligent and we do not have any problen with being stopped at 3 am if acting suspiciously. There are two areas in Fort Worth that have some problems but they are contained there.

                The gangs operate in Dallas freely. Fort Worth school system has a zero tolerance in the public school system to truancy. Truancy is treated very harshly (picked up and put in juvenile)…in Dallas, they do not even call the parents. The Tarant County Sheriff’s Department is very good on warrants…Dallas is a relatively safe city for the criminal.

                Fort Worth does not wish to lose its western identity/western style justice.
                Fort Worth has lower city taxes and property taxes. It draws the professionals. Fort Worth operates within its budget. Many professionals live in Fort Worth and drive to Dallas to work and back to Fort Worth. You can walk our downtown streets in Fort Worth at any time….You cannot in Dallas (without an Abrams Tank). Fort Worth checks worksites and will kick out employers that hire illegal workers. (And, yes, to the bleeding hearts, crime is directly proportional to the illegal population.)

                Fort Worth City Council gets along with each other and renders decisions. The Dallas City Council is full of the politically correct and is in a constant turmoil and infighting.

                These are just some of the reasons.

  20. Nowhere is the gap between sinister stereotype and ridiculous reality more apparent than in Afghanistan, where it’s fair to say that the Taliban employ the world’s worst suicide bombers: one in two manages to kill only himself.

    And this success rate hasn’t improved at all in the five years they’ve been using suicide bombers, despite the experience of hundreds of attacks — or attempted attacks. In Afghanistan, as in many cultures, a manly embrace is a time-honored tradition for warriors before they go off to face death. Thus, many suicide bombers never even make it out of their training camp or safe house, as the pressure from these group hugs triggers the explosives in suicide vests. According to several sources at the United Nations, as many as six would-be suicide bombers died last July after one such embrace in Paktika.

    Many Taliban operatives are just as clumsy when suicide is not part of the plan. In November 2009, several Talibs transporting an improvised explosive device were killed when it went off unexpectedly. The blast also took out the insurgents’ shadow governor in the province of Balkh.

    When terrorists do execute an attack, or come close, they often have security failures to thank, rather than their own expertise. Consider Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — the Nigerian “Jockstrap Jihadist” who boarded a Detroit-bound jet in Amsterdam with a suicidal plan in his head and some explosives in his underwear. Although the media colored the incident as a sophisticated al-Qaeda plot, Abdulmutallab showed no great skill or cunning, and simple safeguards should have kept him off the plane in the first place. He was, after all, traveling without luggage, on a one-way ticket that he purchased with cash. All of this while being on a U.S. government watch list.

    Fortunately, Abdulmutallab, a college-educated engineer, failed to detonate his underpants. A few months later another college grad, Faisal Shahzad, is alleged to have crudely rigged an SUV to blow up in Times Square. That plan fizzled and he was quickly captured, despite the fact that he was reportedly trained in a terrorist boot camp in Pakistan. Indeed, though many of the terrorists who strike in the West are well educated, their plots fail because they lack operational know-how. On June 30, 2007, two men — one a medical doctor, the other studying for his Ph.D. — attempted a brazen attack on Glasgow Airport. Their education did them little good. Planning to crash their propane-and-petrol-laden Jeep Cherokee into an airport terminal, the men instead steered the SUV, with flames spurting out its windows, into a security barrier. The fiery crash destroyed only the Jeep, and both men were easily apprehended; the driver later died from his injuries. (The day before, the same men had rigged two cars to blow up near a London nightclub. That plan was thwarted when one car was spotted by paramedics and the other, parked illegally, was removed by a tow truck. As a bonus for investigators, the would-be bombers’ cell phones, loaded with the phone numbers of possible accomplices, were salvaged from the cars.)

  21. Late to the game, but want to read any further comments. As a note, Youngstown, Ohio had 3 murders Saturday night.

    G!

  22. Ray Hawkins says:

    Man o man am I sorry I missed this yesterday – had day off for bunch of stuff…..

    Chester is very close to home for me; as is a similar town – Coatesville. Both have carried the moniker “little Philly” for their proximity to Philadelphia, the fact all three were at one time sprawling and lively manufacturing centers, for their rampant unemployment, rampant crime and disintegrating school systems. While all three are in different phases lifecycle-wise, I think you get the picture. There are critical grass-roots efforts in all three to rebuild, re-vitalize and uplift the cities. Chester is home to the new pro soccer team (Philadelphia Union) with a stadium to boot. It will take more than a 2nd tier sport and some new gambling venues to rebuild Chester. To grossly generalize, I believe all three suffer from the same root cause in creating entitlement cultures that de-emphasize responsibility, accountability and self-reliance. All three have systemically suffered from terrible leadership that could not plan & react to the exit of industry and flight of folks to the ‘burbs. In and around all three cities you can/will find some amazing concentrations of wealth that rival the biggest of brothers out there (NY, LA, Chicago….). I think that even as Philly slowly comes back to life it will take years and years to correct the core issues still problematic (a school system specializing in producing ‘fat, stupid criminal’, high concentrations of poverty , and continued government incompetence) – all the while cities like Chester still must take baby steps. Declaring martial law – well – that hurts more than helps.

  23. Matthius – Cyndi’s a valley girl!

    Cyndi – Fer shhhure!! Like, TOTALLY!!!!

    8)

    I’M SO BITCHIN’!!

    :LOL:

    • Mathius says:

      I can’t believe I’m actually doing this, but I’m going to have to award you 10 Mathius Points!

      Good thing this is on yesterday’s thread so fewer people will see it

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