Guest Commentary – Cloak and Dagger Taxes Again

Tonight we welcome back a regular contributor and someone who I am hoping to add to SUFA as a regular writer once I get my world settled down and can really get focused again. Jon Smith brings us an issue that at first glance might have been too local to be appreciated by everyone. However, after reading through it, and doing a bit of my own research, it is clear that this is a good topic for discussion. While the course of action in the article is clearly a Virginia state issue, the concept of what is being done is something that is being mirrored in many ways on many products in many states. We have all had our discussions here at SUFA around government and the crooked ways that they do thing. Whether you like or don’t like the concept of taxes, I would like to think that we can all agree that transparency is something we are owed as the citizens.

Cloak and Dagger Taxes Again
by John Smith

Here in Virginia, there is a state-run monopoly on the sale of hard liquor. I find this carry-over from the dismally failed era of prohibition to be reprehensible. Not only should government not have a monopoly on things, but they should not be in charge of the sale of consumer goods in general, for a variety of reasons.

The obvious reason is, of course, that it is a manipulation of what should be a free market. Even the calls from the anti-alcohol crowd are nonsensical at this point due to the history of attempts to control vices and, more notably, to the fact that liquor is still being sold. The fact that the state is doing it really does not change much other than that alcohol is only available at certain shops and at state-set pricing. It really comes down to being a set revenue stream for the state. Profits from alcohol go to the state treasury.

Our current governor (Bob McDonnell) is proposing privatizing the ABC (liquor) stores. His primary motivation is because the state needs a large chunk of money and the sale of the ABC businesses would certainly provide that. This is certainly not the right reason to make this change, but, well, if it makes the change happen, then I am all for it. Then I found out a particular detail of McDonnell’s plan, and it has me pretty angry.

Obviously, the sale of the liquor stores, while supplying a chunk of cash, will result in a reduced income stream in the future, an income stream of nearly $250 million per year. There are to be licensing fees and taxes and so forth, so the income will not dry up completely, and it is likely that more stores will open or have liquor added to their current list of items for sale, thus increasing the license income for the state. Still, the total income will drop.

I have no problem with this, as far as I am concerned, the state already gets too much money from its citizens, and it most certainly spends too much. McDonnell, however, in true politician form, wants to have his cake and eat it too. His plan, it turns out, includes a tax of 4% levied on businesses that sell alcohol, not just the liquor stores, but bars and restaraunts as well. This is not acceptable.

Not only does the governor think that we the people are ignorant enough to think that the tax on “businesses” will not affect the prices we pay, but he is trying to tax institutions not involved in the liquor store transaction at all. An increase in taxes will lead to an increase in prices. It does not really matter that the tax was not levied directly on the consumer. If the consumer pays it, then it is a tax on the consumer.

Now, it is entirely possible that consumers will not even notice the change. This is because, it is quite possible that liquor stores will drop their prices once competition is introduced to the market once again. Furthermore, current ABC policy dictates that bars and restaurants pay a premium for liquor, whereas any decent private store would be likely to offer discounts for bulk purchases and larger volume customers. As a result, the prices for the bars will likely go down. This means that, even with an added tax, prices may not go up for the consumer, indeed they could even still end up being lower.

The reason this has me so angry is that it is an attempt to pull the wool over people’s eyes and hide a tax. The state could, if they wished to maintain their income stream, levy the taxes directly on the sales of liquor bottles. While I am no fan of any sort of taxes, and consider the tax of a business to just be a disguised tax, it would still be more above board than the plan McDonnell has.

Why is he doing it? Because if he adds the tax directly to the sale of liquor in bottles, then he is affecting the profit margin of the liquor stores. Liquor stores will not be able to do as much with pricing as they otherwise would, thus making the business less profitable overall, and making competition more difficult. If he monkeys around with the profit margins of the stores, then the potential buyers will not pay as much for the stores and licenses. That means the state’s chunk of up-front money will be smaller. So, he is taxing a different business that is still part of ABC regulations but is not involved in this transaction so that he can keep his income up in the future and still make more up front.

I am sorry, that is not acceptable. I want a transparent government with a clear and simple system of taxation so that people can see what their government is really costing and what they are really up to. These games are tiresome, and they are insulting.

We are not putting up with this junk anymore Governor, we are awake, and we care what is happening. If you cannot do the hard stuff and cut spending rather than play games with our money and manipulate ways to get more money from the consumer, then we will find someone who can. Get the State out of the liquor business and leave us alone. If you find yourself with a budget shortfall, then start cutting state services. We don’t mind, we have been trying to get that to happen for years.

I will add that I feel the same way that Jon does. First and foremost, I am completely opposed to government having a monopoly on anything, especially when it comes to the sale of consumer goods. North Carolina operates under the same system as Virginia. We are only able to purchase hard liquor at state owned ABC stores. This does absolutely nothing to curb the amount of consumption in any way. The only exception to that fact is that you have to find a way to pre-plan to purchase liquor during “state hours” rather than being able to react to a sudden event. If I find that all the sudden ten friends from college are going to be in town, I had better hope that I am able to get to the state store before they close. Because if I don’t, we simply won’t be able to get the liquor that we want. Instead we are forced out to the streets to visit a bar to do our drinking rather than simply having a night at my house. Somehow that doesn’t seem like a wise plan.

More important to me is the fact that the only reason that politicians seem to do anything is because it serves the government’s interest in some way. I long for the days when politicians were doing things because they are the right thing to do. In this example from Jon, the state should be turning liquor sales over to the private market because government has no business monopolizing liquor sales in the first place. They should be doing the right thing based on freedom, liberty, and limited government intrusion in the marketplace. Yet the only way they are willing to do the right thing is if there is a benefit to government. What is funny about this particular situation is that McDonnell is catching it from both sides. Conservatives are opposing the idea because they don’t want liquor sold at all (and therefore only government should sell it?). Liberals are opposing the idea because it is being presented by a Republican Governor.

Government doesn’t have the right to do ANYTHING based on the impact on government in doing so. Government exists to serve the people (hypothetically), and as such, the only reason that government should act is because it benefits the citizens. Government was not meant to prosper on the backs of taxpayers. It was meant to serve the taxpayers and work to ensure that our rights are not violated. It is examples like this, no matter how small, that show us just how far off track government has become.

I sure wish I had the power to organize a full tax boycott. I would love to simply de-fund government by having every citizen simply say, “nope, I am not giving you another dime until you get your spending under control and relinquish the authorities that you shouldn’t have in the first place.” There simply just does not seem to exist the ability to get a significant enough group of people to do so. And without a vast majority taking that stand, those that do will simply be hunted down and imprisoned for refusing to acknowledge government’s right to their money. The up side is that at the current rate, government will bankrupt itself faster than we could organize it. The question around that is simply do we have to turn into the Soviet Union in order to make them understand the foolishness of their plans?

So the real question that I have is, How exactly do we start forcing government to do the right thing because it is the right thing? The federal government obviously doesn’t care one wit about what the citizens think. Short of getting everyone to simply stop paying taxes, how do we make them bend to the will of the people?


  1. I grew up in Washington State and left it in 1960. My stepfather drank booze in excess – the understatement of the 20th Century. During prohibition he was a bootlegger, got discovered and joined the army to avoid being caught. He married my Mom in 1956. Back then Washington State had the same type system that VA now has, state run and licensed alcohol sales of which you could only purchase alcohol at if you had a state alcohol permit – which you paid a fee for to the state. That was supposed to prevent alcoholism. It failed from the gitgo. I have no idea what that state now has as far as booze sales, and I really do not care – I ain’t going back there . . . EVER!

    I know why you are angry at the political smoke & mirrors shuffle that your governor is trying to pull off. I don’t blame you one bit. Here in AZ our governor got a so-called “temporary” one-cent added sales tax passed last year and used the excuse that we needed it to offset the enormous deficit Janet Napolotano left when she bolted to head up DHS at Obama’s request. The only reason Jan Brewer might get re-elected is because of her steadfast support for SB1070 and her fight with Obama to get our border secured. That one cent tax was not needed as all we had to do is can some of the previous governors ridiculous social programs.

    We know that more is on the way, but they are still hidden in the smoke & mirrors shuffle that these progressives are so good at putting up.

  2. Good Morning 🙂

    Jon, your anger is justified. I have come to believe that all politicians are simply thieves, and will do whatever it takes to take our money for themselves, this is just another example of their wicked ways.

    USW, you posed this question: Short of getting everyone to simply stop paying taxes, how do we make them bend to the will of the people?

    I think the all the taxes, regulations and stupid laws will eventually exhuast the system and will come to a standstill. Back in 2008, when gas prices spiked, I was watching the trucking industry very closely. The surcharges grew, and in some cases, never went away, much like airlines charging for checked bags today. If we want the Govt to bend to the will of the people, it could be done with a concerted effort to get the trucking industry to park their trucks for a week or two. They will listen quickly.

    This should be a good discussion today!


    • That’s not a bad idea, G!
      We don’t need to get everyone, we just need to get a few key groups. Sort of like the early union days, back when they were legitimate and organized by individuals working together, rather than government loving “leaders”.

      I would contribute to the cause, those truckers would take a huge income hit doing something like that, and they might need protection from violence as well. Let me know where I am needed. 🙂

      • Jon,

        Good to more see folks willing to sacrifice to make things better. Having rethought this method somewhat, it wouldn’t take more than a few days rather than weeks. Grocery stores would be empty within days and there would be some pain associated with that. Most folks where I live now are stocked for the next year or two, and there would be little pain here, but the cities would hurt the most. They would get the ball rolling in a hurry. The biggest problem is getting a majority of truckers to buy into it. A simple message, something like “If we don’t stop Government intrusion, they will destroy themselves and take us with them, it’s time to act”

        Fun thoughts anyway.


      • What would prevent the Obama government from “temporarily” nationalizing the trucking industry to reverse any action by truckers?

        • One thing that would stop them from “Nationalizing” the trucking industry is the fact that just anyone cannot drive a big rig. They’re not like driving a car. If the truckers just sat down and told Obama to stick those rigs up his Socialist behind, then what would he do?

          The Government has effectively cut their own throats with all the regulations on trucking. You have to go through a lot of schooling to be a trucker and you also have to keep your schooling up to date.

          • Presuming Uncle needs those big rigs in the first place, initially. How many truckers would stand their ground if threatened with immediate arrest and detention? Would that even happen? Depends on how desperate a situation the government felt it was in I think.

            Further, you will have all those union truckers willing to do as their union tells them, how do you ensure they’ll stay out and not drive?

            Lastly, Uncle will fall back on his military. Convoys of trucks moving supplies around the country to the points the government felt it needed them at to maintain control of the what it considers the important portions of the nation. Though it would be inadequate in the long run it may well work long enough for the government, through force and fear, to get truckers driving again.

            (Note to BF – I am NOT saying any of it would work this way, just some thoughts to ponder. Please don’t flay me alive.)

            • Arrest them for what? Refusing to drive?

              However, you are right about the Union drivers. And even the Trucking Companies would never stick together.

              THAT is what Uncle counts on in his taxing schemes. No one will stick together long enough to force them to do jack.

              • Esom Hill,

                For any lame charges the government chose to come up with. Interference with interstate commerce, endangering the public safety, treason. It wouldn’t matter the charges. By the time the courts got it all figured out the “emergency” would be over.

                Plus what are the courts going to do?

                Courts: “Shame on you Uncle, you can’t do that. Release then and behave yourself.”

                Uncle: “Oops, our bad. We won’t do that again, we promise.”

            • It was done before, and the government failed.

              It was done to the early union workers, even to the point of sending troops. They stuck to it, and the government reversed their position.

              It was done more violently in Communist Russia. The proletariat convinced people that the business owners and farm owners were evil and nationalized everything, killing or arresting or ruining those owners. The people starved.

              If the government owned the trucks, big deal, they don’t own the truckers. They don’t own you and me. They cannot. Man is not property. People must simply do what BF has been suggesting for years. Ignore the government actions. There will be casualties, there will be losses of assets. There will be violence. There will be some who follow the government orders, and there will be those who will not. Freedom is not happy happy joy land. Its scary and risky, that is why people give it up so easily. Yet it remains the best and only right way to live. Thus, those with courage and a desire to truly live, will always live free regardless the risks.

              “We are so screwed” has been the mantra around here for a bit, and its true. So if we are so screwed anyway, then why not be so screwed fighting a battle as the underdog rather than laying down to die and maybe die a little more comfortably. Screwed is screwed. At least have some guts and take some of the bad guys with you or send a message that might make sure future generations aren’t screwed.

              • I never said the gov’t would do it well, or even good….more like poorly at best.

                I don’t intend that I or my family die comfortably, but live decently on our own. We’re always willing to have, more time to make our lives more secure and self-sufficient. But if it collapses tomorrow we’re ready and can survive.

                If they want to fight, then I’m willing to fight back to the best of my ability.

                • Sounds good to me. I did not mean to come off rude if I did, just feeling a little charged up is all.

                  • np at all. 🙂

                  • Jon,

                    Sorry about leading this from screwed up taxes to a truckers revolt 👿 It was unintended. I love when I hear people who are willing to stand up for freedom that all men and women should enjoy.

                    “it’s not the size of the man in the fight, but the size of the fight in the man”

                    I think it is safe to say in our era, that the quote should include women, they deserve the respect! 🙂

                    • no apologies necessary. Its a good idea. Picking one sector,trucking or otherwise, could have a huge impact and would not be so hard to coordinate. Sort of like the idea of all the freedom lovers moving to one state and pushing through secession, then showing the rest of the country how much better freedom works.

          • <blockquote cite="The Government has effectively cut their own throats with all the regulations on trucking. You have to go through a lot of schooling to be a trucker and you also have to keep your schooling up to date."

            Which means nothing should the government decide those laws, rules and regulations were waived during their “national emergency.”

            • Yea, until people get run over in their government mandated tiny cars and shipments don’t make it to their destinations and half the government trucks have blown engines because the scabs driving them don’t know how to shift truck gears.

            • Yeah PS, I agree. The problem is that even if the Feds did that, it wouldn’t work. The Feds couldn’t screw in a light bulb without a 2 million dollar study and 500 people to screw it in.

              And I wish they would try to relax the trucking rules. What a clusterstink that would be! 🙂

    • I remember reading in the newspaper some time ago when all the garbage collectors in NYC went on strike – (it was organized by the so-called mafia) – and I can’t remember how long it lasted, but the garbage literally piled up in the streets for weeks on end and the city government did absolutely nothing to help the situation. As I recall, and I could very well be wrong, that the people of NYC gave in before the city government did anything to resolve the situation. It resulted in much higher fees paid by the people for garbage pick up.

      If the trucking industry just stopped for one day, nothing would ever come of it. If it stopped for one week, a lot of people would go hungry. If it stopped for one month, the government would run an ad campaign showing that this justifies nationalizing the trucking industry and then the government would win.

      However, there is one thing that just might work. It would take a monumental effort at organizing every man, woman, and child in this country.

      For one entire week, we would ALL have to gather at our state capitols en mass, and stage a nationwide sit in, kinda like the college students did back in the 1960’s. Just go there and sit. By the millions. And when the ignorant MSM would show up and ask what our demands were we all have to say exactly the same thing “We are the government, politicians are our employees and they have not been doing the job that we hired them to do so we are here to inform them that they are FIRED!” . . .

      Or, we can go to our local voting place on November 2nd and vote ALL the incumbents out of office!

      • G.A. and PlainlySpoken,

        Nationalizing the trucking industry would be impossible. The Govt. could lay claim to the trucks, but without experienced drivers thay have nothing. The people make the trucking industry. They are hard working, tax paying citizens, just like us. If the Govt put amateurs in the trucks, the highways would be a disaster, and the govt would be responsible for many deaths. Truckers hold an ace against govt, without them the country stops.

        With that said, food would be a difficult commodity to aquire for most after some time, the military would take on a humanitarian effort like nothing ever seen in history. The logistics would fail in time, people would starve and as Black Flag would say, cities would burn. Fortunately, it’s all hypathetical and will never happen, so the next best thing is exactly the sentiment that you espouse G.A., vote the incumbants out and start over. We’ll soon see how well that works, but I predict it will change very little if anything at all. But at least for a short period, they would have heard us.



        • You’ll never get the incumbents all out at once – won’t happen because voters see the problem as being any politician but their representative. For a good example look at Rangel’s win (again) in his primary (and probably general) election.

          Short of finding a legal and binding way of dissolving Congress and barring any of them from running again you’ll never get a fresh start in the House or Senate.

          They will all happily lead us to collapse, all the while blaming someone else.

        • G!

          “Nationalizing the trucking industry would be impossible.”

          It just takes a plan. A couple months ago, Obama announced there would be new mileage standards from the EPA for big trucks, requiring double the MPG. And my info is it is possible, but expensive. The resulting cost increase will force most trucking firms out, leaving only a few large ones that will be “saved” by government subsidies.

          • Yet another motivator to get truckers to sit out for a week or two. Regulations like that will do more to make the truckers on strike scenario realistic than anything we could do.

    • G-Man Stated:”USW, you posed this question: Short of getting everyone to simply stop paying taxes, how do we make them bend to the will of the people?”

      TC:Well G-Man this was the very reason the 2nd amendment was put into the Constitution!

  3. “So, he is taxing a different business that is still part of ABC regulations but is not involved in this transaction”

    You mean like the newly passed Federal Bill to help Small Business? They tax one group of businesses to the tune of 30 billion+ run the money through the bureaucratic maze of government staffed by worker drones, then offer the money to another group of businesses with strings attached. Then the politicians standup in front of cameras and say we helped small business and it is paid for with no tax increases to the public, knowing that the taxed businesses are going to pass the additional cost on to the consumer. Ain’t life swell.

    • Yea, its kinda like that. 🙂

      On an interesting note, there was apparently enough outrage at McDonnell’s plan that he has since backpedaled, saying it was a misunderstanding and that there would be no 4% tax. Sadly, the anti-alcohol crowd is still making a big deal and throwing around absolutely ridiculous made up statistics about how bad it will be to have liquor become more available. Some of the stuff they are saying makes me wonder what they are on….

      So we will see how things play out. Hopefully it will still end with the abolition of one of the state-run monopolies.

  4. Jon/USW

    Look to Nevada for your answer about regulating booze.

    Although the state there still controls licenses for bars and restaurants. That should be killed as well.

  5. USW

    Your statement about the role or purpose of government perpetuates the very problem.

    “Government exists to serve the people (hypothetically), and as such, the only reason that government should act is because it benefits the citizens.”

    That was the trap created by eloquent speakers of centuries gone by. The only legitimate role of a government of FREE PEOPLE is to protect the freedom and rights of the people. Any action that imposes upon that basic responsibility must be eliminated.

    You ask what must be done? A simple phrase needs to replace the multitude of pages of political party “platforms” and political punditry. Restoring Freedom, Liberty and Justice for All Americans is the goal.

    All discussion should start from this point. Even discussions about budgets and deficits. Only the PEOPLE can make this happen. It will take some time because it means we need to elect those that believe in this mission. We will have to elect them, dump them and find another, and another, until all the chameleons have been flushed from the system.

    It will take time and it will be frustrating, but I think it is possible. And failure is not an option.

    • JAC

      We will have to elect them, dump them and find another, and another, until all the chameleons have been flushed from the system

      The problem with this as I see it;

      It takes 4 years between go and stop. People forget why they want to stop after that long and hit the go button anyway.

      The system of elections has existed for hundreds of years – and it has not worked.

      Asking for more of the same in the face of failure ensures failure.

      Voting does not, has not, and never will work.

      • Does the word “Impeachment” mean anything to you?

        • G.A. Rowe,

          When has impeachment ever been successful?

          You are asking the government to prosecute itself.

          Good luck with that.

          • We The People are the government, that is what our constitution says . . . . .

            Problem is that our founders believed that, but the “rank and file” never caught on.

            That is why the progressives have been so successful over the last hundred years.

            If we can change that general attitude, we will win.

    • USW said, “How exactly do we start forcing government to do the right thing because it is the right thing?”

      As JAC said, only by electing those who will force change from within, will things change. External force will not work, but might be useful to gain peoples attention, and then get reformers elected.

      • Amen-it doesn’t make much sense to fight to get the right people on the ballot and then not vote for them.

      • Well answer anothe question for me.

        Why is it that when someone wants to be elected that is VERY conservative and is backed by the Tea Parties. And is very electable because of it. Morons such as Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich decide to talk shit because they are not part of the Republican Mainstream, or rather “the good ole boys and girls” establishment?

        It seems to me that would make them MORE attractive to voters, not less. Political Professionals (crooks and theives) are the problem with the Govenment now.

        • They really aren’t the good ole’ boys though, Esom.If they were they would never have sold their conservative values to special interests!

          • TC. You know what I meant Compadre!

            There is the same club in the local politics here locally. The politicians always look out for the other politicians. WHen someone new who is not from the established crooks and thieves club (better?), all the others jump on and disparage them EVEN when they are from the same party like Angle and ODonnell.

            Even though the Democrats do the same thing, I bet they are just loving all this bickering in the GOP.

            And the GOP needs to realize that they don’t have a chance without the Tea Party backing. And they cannot take the Tea Parties over, because they want no part of them. These are radical right wing liberal movements. Not the same old, same old the GOP is used to.

            Can you say; “REAL CHANGE”?

  6. USWep,

    Short of a tax revolt (remember the reason of 1776) nothing can be done.

    But remember 1776 completely; in the end, they imposed taxes….

    • That would be an interesting topic of discussion for another day. Why did they decide that they needed to write the Constitution instead of sticking with the Articles of Confederation and why did they believe taxes were necessary. I have always thought that the Constitution came about as an answer to problems that had arisen under the Articles.

      • Until the Civil War began in 1861 taxes in America were not a problem.Thank Lincoln for the Income Tax.Most people do not realize this for the reason why the deep south voted Democratic for decades.Lincoln was a Republican.

  7. Today is profit taking day for precious metals.

    If you have any plans to purchase and have procrastinated until now, now is the time.

  8. JAC

    Sustainability full steam ahead at Dow

    I found this as I was researching jobs for my daughter as they prepare to come back to Mich next summer.

    Thought you might be interested.

  9. Jon,

    Nice article and great point on how every government seems to want to play games and hide their actions. It’s funny that Democrats are trying to pass a bill removing IRS reporting requirements from the health care law, because of the paperwork burden it will impose on the government. And the proposed Flat or Fair Tax would shatter all the mirror’s they use to hide their action’s with.

    And since you started this on alcohol, something for the beer drinkers,

    Xingu – Black Beer from Brazil
    Jul 24 ’01

    The Bottom Line A full-flavored, premium black lager that is surprisingly smooth and rich. Despite its dark, ominious appearance, this beer is very easy on the palate and quite enjoyable. Highly recommended.

    Xingu – pronounced shin-goo’ — is a tributary of the mighty Amazon River. It is also the name of an exotic, all natural beer that is the fourth largest selling brand in the South American continent.

    Xingu Black Beer
    This beer is brewed by Cervejaria Cacador in the city of Toledo, state of Paraná, Brazil. It is a 5% alcohol by volume black lager beer that is brewed as a kind of homage to an ancient style of beer brewed by the Amazonian peoples who made beer using manioc root (a starch; staple food that is eaten like a potato) or dark roasted corn. Fermentation was achieved spontaneously via wild yeasts.

    Well, that was in the old days. Today, this beer is brewed using traditional Reinheitsgebot ingredients: barley, hops, water and yeast.

    The beer itself pours with a very dark brown — indeed almost black — color and is virtually opaque. A rocky, brown-colored, thick foam head is produced during the pour that long lingering in the glass. The dark color of the beer is produced by black-roasting malts from the South American grown barley. The roasted malts give this beer its coffee, molasses and licorice aromas. Hop varieties used are Hallertau and Yakima. I must say that this beer was very much like the black German lager Köstritzer Schwarzbier — although I found it to be silkier and smoother in texture and mouthfeel. The finish was very similar to a dark beer I’ve tried in recent months from Australia — Old Australia Stout — sweet and malty, and having a mild level of bitterness.

  10. ‘Constitution Day’
    Posted by Stephan Kinsella on September 17, 2010 03:14 PM

    Today is the 223rd anniversary of the adoption of the modern American Constitution, on Sept. 17, 1787.

    Most Americans are too ignorant to even realize that this followed in the wake of the 1776 Declaration of Independence (on July 2, not July 4, 1776), and the Articles of Confederation adopted in 1781.

    Or to understand that the Bill of Rights was not adopted until 1791, two years after the Constitution was ratified.

    Yet, adopting the Official History and hagiography of our constructivist, utopian Founders, they worship the Constitution anyway, even though it was a coup d’état (Rockwell on Hoppe on the Constitution as Expansion of Government Power), even though slavery was permitted, even though it was an illegal, unnecessary, centralizing power play by politicians, even though it arguably led to the Civil War, WWI, the collapse of western monarchies and the regressive replacement of traditionalist limited monarchy with socialized democracy, WWII, Naziism, Communism, the Holocaust, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, and the Cold War.

    Ironically, today is said to be “Constitution Day” by the Congress, in an act that is itself unconstitutional since the Constitution does not authorize the Congress to establish any such quasi-religious institutions or observances. The very act of official worship of the Constitution is unconstitutional.

    How fitting.

    Down with the Constitution.

    What a socialist, centralizing, utopian mistake. It is time for libertarians to stop glorifying early America, the Founders, the Constitution, etc., as proto-libertarian.

    All states are illegitimate, including America’s.

    The Enemy Is Always the State:

    Let me state this as plainly as possible.

    The enemy is the state.

    There are other enemies too, but none so fearsome, destructive, dangerous, or culturally and economically debilitating.

    No matter what other proximate enemy you can name — big business, unions, victim lobbies, foreign lobbies, medical cartels, religious groups, classes, city dwellers, farmers, left-wing professors, right-wing blue-collar workers, or even bankers and arms merchants — none are as horrible as the hydra known as the leviathan state.

    If you understand this point — and only this point — you can understand the core of libertarian strategy.

    • Black Order says:
    • BlackFlag Stated:”The Enemy Is Always the State:”

      TC: I disagree.The enemy is and always has been whomever runs the State corrupted.If you look at your local community as a smaller scaled down “State” I think you would follow my line of thought on this subject.Once those in power lose sight of the purpose of government then that is when the loss of rights starts.My local governments laws I find very acceptable.

      • Texaschem

        As typical, you mis-define government, and end up a champion of evil

        • I believe I have the definition of government understood BF.The definition and difference of local vs federal is what you need to define for yourself.There has been and ALWAYS will be some form of government amongst man.Even if a madmax world developed from global economic meltdown there will be pockets of “government”.From tribal to feudal.

          • Texaschem,

            By the definition of government, your statement “ALWAYS will be some form of government amongst man” is blatantly false.

            In fact, the vast majority of human existence on earth had no government.

            Government is comparably a very recent development caused by the prosperity of human development and the profit of theft.

    • Mr. Flag,

      While I agree with you on “the enemy is the state”, I will say that , for me, I always “did” for the people, not the State. While it’s unfortunate that the State benefitted from my lifes actions, It was for Family, Friends and Freedom.

      While the Constitution is something evil in your village, it’s words have united many freedom loving people in this country, who, past, present and future are willing to preserve and defend what freedom is left that the State has not destroyed.

      Maybe, the illusion of freedom is rampant, that I understand, because we really aren’t free. The Constitution is all that currently stands between what is America and what could be North Korea.

      Our freedoms continue to be stolen, to the point where anyone could argue that we are not free at all, but for now, until things change for the better, those 200+ year old words may hold the key to getting back what has been stolen, then we can move forward, if that day ever comes.

      Peace Mr. Flag


      • G-Man,

        I do not believe you understand the implications of its text, its history, nor its creation.

        • Bottom Line says:


          I think I know where you’re going with this.

          I’m just starting to understand how this whole maritime law stuff works, and I’m rather curious of the legal avenues for switching from “JOHN DOE” to “john doe”.

          I remember you once stating that you aren’t an Anarchist, but rather a “Sovereign Individualist”.

          Perhaps you can shed some light on this. If so, it may even be a good guest article for you to write.

        • BF,

          I know your views well. You despise government, in any form. I’m not too keen on the SOB’s either. 🙂 This has been a great site to study and learn about all kinds of history, that I have enjoyed. I didn’t attempt to refute your position, just to comment on it.

          I’m only thinking of our country, what a mess it is, and work to discover ways to fix it. I’ve watched as Americans have looked to the Constitution and United “Against” all the jackasses in D.C. That was my point. We can’t change the past, but we all can effect the present and maybe change the future for the better. There must be a unifying theme to start with, and I was just saying that the Constitution has served as that in the past, and is doing so now.

          I don’t believe I will live to see the day when a form of government doesn’t exist. At some point in time, government will likey be the cause of the extiction of the human race.

          How would you go about unifying as many people as possible to accomplish the end of the State? I think I know the answer, but I’ll wait for it patiently.

          Peace my friend!


          • G-Man

            My position on the Constitution has remained unchanged since Day One I came to SUFA

            It is the direct cause of the tyranny now facing America.

            It was explicitly created to prepare the conditions for a ruling class over America.

            It was illegally constructed.

            It is the clear and defined seed of evil over America today.

            Calling for a return to the Constitution moves the nation nowhere for that is where you stand now.

            • Nonsense.

            • BF

              I think your mistaking my message for something that it is not.

              BF Said: Calling for a return to the Constitution moves the nation nowhere for that is where you stand now

              I never wrote that, or proposed that. If you reread my words, you will see that I proposed using the Constitution as a tool to unite people. It is an effective tool and has been proven so.

              Two years ago, I had to drag 3 deer out of the woods, for over a mile. This was very phisically exhausting as you could imagine. While carts for this purpose are sold, I didn’t like the design, as the wheels were small and it was difficult to get over dead logs and such.

              After much thought, I used what I had at my disposal and built an effective, easy the manuever cart for hauling deer. It also serves well for hauling treestands and other bulky hunting gear into and out of the woods.

              Much like I posed as using the Costitution as a tool to unite people, I took a heavy person wheelchair, redesigned it with some steel nipples, conduit and two pieces of 1 1/2″ PVC, moved the handles to the front, extended the back.

              The wheelchair had outlived it’s usefullness and was not safe for it’s intended purpose, but with a major redesign, it is once again a usefull tool.

              Get my point yet?


              • Now if I could only get my spelling better. “physical” not phisicle, LOL 🙂

              • G-Man,

                To carry your analogy.

                In trying to get your deer out of the woods, you created a cart pulled by a team of slaves, because it was “around” and “convenient” at the time.

                And, now, to make it more “timely” instead of abandoning slavery – you wish to “tweak” the cart to carry more weight and enable more slaves as engines.

                That’s my point.

  11. USW Stated:”I sure wish I had the power to organize a full tax boycott. I would love to simply de-fund government by having every citizen simply say, “nope, I am not giving you another dime until you get your spending under control and relinquish the authorities that you shouldn’t have in the first place.” There simply just does not seem to exist the ability to get a significant enough group of people to do so.”

    TC:I would jump in the car and ride shotgun for you USW!

    Government does use force and will continue to use force in order to get the citizen to comply with unconstitutional “Tax Laws”.Our American society has become trained/brainwashed to comply with the governments use of force to squeeze out every dollar they possibly can to fund the unquenchable appetite of the beast the federal government has become.I am sick of it.I believe our government has actually become so big it will fail.The breaking point seems to be just over the horizon and I believe just the slightest breeze could send us over that edge.

    While I know some of you disagree will disagree with me; I have to say, a hefty dose of Nationalism is what this country needs to begin the trek uphill to regain lost freedoms, liberty and justice.

  12. Black Order says:

    The government doesn’t have a monopoly on the sale of alcohol. It has a monopoly on the LEGAL sale of alcohol.

    There is always a “black” market, and you can always just make your own.

  13. I learn something every day. I had no idea liquor was sold in such ways. Frankly, I’m kind of dumbfounded. You all know I’m not a big free market proponent, but this seems absurd to me (government run liquor stores). Here I guess I fall in line with yous wingies. I don’t mind the threat of government taking temporary control of ANY business when ANY said business either threatens the welfare of the (dare I say it) common good) and/or acts so irresponsibly (BP comes to mind) that seizing some of its assets and/or operations on a temporary (or permanent, if the need be) basis is one remedy, but out and out total control over an industry seems absolutely contrary to benefitting anyone but the government.

    It shouldn’t happen. Laws like that need to be repealed, I agree.

    The Bills will crush Green Bay tomorrow. Future hall of famer, Trent Edwards will toss for 400+ yards (hopefully to the right team).

  14. Stimulus’ $111 Million Adds 55 New Jobs! Suppose that $111 Million Had Remained in the Private Sector?

    Posted by libertius (Profile)

    Friday, September 17th at 2:43PM EDT
    No Comments

    From the September 17 Los Angeles Times: Two L.A. agencies get $111 million in stimulus funds but have created only 55 jobs.

    Today, media reports abound regarding this astounding testimonial to the inefficiency and wastefulness of Obama’s Stimulus debacle. Easy arithmetic proves it: $111 million, 55 jobs…equals about $2 million per job. Slam dunk for fiscal irresponsibility.

    But suppose that $111 million had remained in the private sector and not been confiscated by the federal government. How many jobs might have it created?

    Let’s build a hypothetical.

    For the sake of illustration we’ll look at a number of small businesses, each doing $5 million in sales. And, we’ll assume each has a before tax profit of 15%, or $750,000.

    Also, these small businesses are Sub-Chapter S corporations with their income reflected on the owners’ personal tax returns. Each business would fall in the 35% bracket and pay $262,500 in federal income taxes.

    Therefore, the $111 million wasted in Los Angeles equates to the income tax paid by 423 small businesses using the assumptions above.

    Without making this example more complicated (where a CPA would be required), we’ll assume that these small businesses were given an income tax holiday for a year. Each owner would have an additional $262,500 to invest in his/her business.

    If they use $100,000 to buy new equipment, increase inventories, etc. (which would indirectly add jobs, but we won’t count that), $162,500 could be used to hire new employees. At $50,000 per employee (wages, taxes, benefits), each business could hire about 3 new employees.

    423 small businesses X 3 new employees each = 1269 new employees.

    Final Score:

    New job creation when wealth is left in the private sector: 1269

    New job creation when private wealth is seized by the federal government, strained through multiple levels of bureaucratic inefficiency and redistributed by a command-and-control, politically motivated regime: 55

  15. It starts….

    The new US$ designs making mainstream….

  16. Woo Hoo I love it !!!

    “Tea party goes global, part deux

    * Posted on September 18, 2010 at 2:12pm by Meredith Jessup Meredith Jessup
    * Print »
    * Email »


    Woah. First our neighbors down under, and now our friends across the pond in the UK.

    The tea party’s waves are officially reaching foreign shores.”

    Go to the page and read the two articles-You will love it. The idea that there is a British Tea Party is priceless. 🙂

    • SWEET! I’m with you V. I saw it mentioned that Italy and Canada are also trying to get started up. Now maybe “they” will start paying attention. There’s 6 billion of us and only so many of them. Are “they” now going to dismiss the whole world of being bible thumping teabagging idiots?

      • Oh, they have been paying attention-that’s why they have been trying so hard to destroy the movement-but they are losing 🙂 🙂 🙂 and I love it. Most people are turned off by hate speech and all the racist crap is getting really old. I find it funny that I have been so irritated by our Presidents derogatory humor about half our population and now that he’s disked his own base a few times-they no longer seem to have a sense of humor. 🙂

  17. LOI.

    SUUUUUUUUUUUWWWEEEEEEEEEE! I thought we had ya’ll for a little bit, but ‘ol Mallet pulled it out. Good luck in the rest of the Hog’s season this year.

    I ALWAYS pull for the SEC teams, as long as they’re not playing Georgia. Except Florida. The only time I pull for them is sometimes in a Bowl Game.

    Maybe 1 or 2 will lose in the top 10, and Arkansas can move into the top 10. I guess this is a small rebuilding period for the Dawgs.

    • Esom,

      Thanks for the shout out, sorry to say I missed it. I was sighting in a 300 mag at 400 yrds, missed there too(22″ drop). The Hogs always seem to be a heartbreak team(except for their cross country), getting your hopes up, and then choking.
      Oh, for those Lou Holtz days again.

  18. Now this is what our Reps. should be doing.

    Christie: Jersey superstar

    Last Updated: 4:04 PM, September 17, 2010

    Posted: September 17, 2010
    Comments: 22
    More Print

    Chris Christie gets it — and he didn’t need the Tea Party to inspire him.

    Christie has been shaking up New Jersey since Day One, and now he’s done it again — proposing an unprecedented tightening of pension and health-care benefits for public employees, in order to shore up a system that’s teetering at the edge of bankruptcy.

    He wants to raise the normal retirement age for teachers and most state and municipal workers to 65, requiring 30 years service for early retirement instead of 25. Police would have to work 30 years for full retirement, but could retire early with reduced benefits.

    He also wants public employees to:

    * Contribute 8.5 percent of their salaries toward their pensions.

    * Start paying 30 percent of the cost of their health premiums.

    * Accept the rollback of a 9 percent raise in pension benefits granted in 2001 — an increase he admits was put into place by Republicans, who “shouldn’t have done it in the first place.”

    Naturally, this has the public-sector unions — and their Democratic legislative allies — screaming bloody murder.

    But, as the governor notes, “this isn’t about promises made and kept. This is about special interests squeezing benefits out of the government and taxpayers [that] we can no longer afford to pay.”

    Indeed, adds Christie, “we can’t shelter one special group of people — public-sector unions — from the ravages of this recession and have that shelter paid for by the very people who are getting hurt by the recession the most: the people in the private sector.”

    Damned straight.

    In fact, he says, those who are moaning loudly now will be singing a different story down the road: “Ten years from now, when you have a pension to collect and health benefits to collect, you are going to be looking for my address to send me a thank-you note.”

    How so?

    Right now, New Jersey’s public pension system is underfunded by $46 billion. Without reforms, even if the state keeps making payments — which were skipped this year in a budget-balancing move — that would rise to $85 billion by 2025.

    On the health-care side, the underfunding comes to $67 billion — and rising.

    Christie, in other words, is addressing the crisis of New Jersey’s long-term obligations head-on — in a way that may mean short-term pain for some, but long-term benefits for all.

    Chris Christie is Tea Party rhetoric channeled into constructive solutions — with the kind of political courage sadly lacking in both Washington and Albany.

    No wonder he’s a political superstar.

    Read more:

  19. Good for Christie. A breath of fresh air. This will be interesting to watch for a while. It will be a good test to BF’s theory of complete civil unrest due to govt doing what is absolutely necessary to get things under control. It would be really cool if all the newly elected governors will follow Christie’s lead and shake things up in more states.

    What’s going on suddenly? Are we witnessing a paradigm shift? Christie putting his foot down. Tea parties forming in other countries. Are we actually beginning to tip the scales? Let’s hope so!

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