Guest Commentary – Fantasy Candidate Part 3

And a hearty good evening to all of SUFA. I must again apologize for my sporadic posting lately. To say that things are hectic right now is an understatement. I have a lot of things that are transitioning which has made my schedule chocked full for the majority of the last month. I don’t see it really slowing down for another month for reasons that I will share later. As promised earlier this week, I tonight offer the third installment from Jon Smith’s fantasy candidate series. Tonight’s addition deals with new legislation that should be proposed, but not including anything that would be a repeal of current law, as that will come in a later section. I highly encourage everyone to talk out the proposals that Jon offers below. Would they work? Are they the best step in each of their respective areas? Are there other forms of legislation that should be offered that Jon has missed. With a government as bloated as the US federal government, there should be no shortage of legislation necessary to start paring things down.

Fantasy Candidate Part 3- New Legislation
by Jon Smith

This section of the series will focus on what new legislation should be proposed. This does not include repealing of things (that comes next, and may well be the longest section), nor does it include any of the congressional limitation legislation that I mentioned in part 2. There are some things that the government needs to implement that I think will be steps in the right direction. Even though most of these are limitations, they would still be proposed as new legislation in most cases.

1) School Vouchers: There are a lot of problems with the schools, some of them may not be a direct result of them all being government run. But regardless, many of the issues may be resolved by introducing more competition into the system. Vouchers are a stepping stone, helping people get from powerless to being able to have a say. Helping the free market have customers other than just the wealthy. And, vouchers save tax dollars. Vouchers would be issued to persons who chose not to utilize public education, and would be less than the current per child cost. States could, of course, do this as well, but the Federal level would be a good example for states to follow. School vouchers had massive popular support from everyone except for the NEA and other teacher unions and administrators. Unfortunately, that particular special interest group was able to override the blatant support of everyone else.

2) Another proposition that would likely meet a lot of support, at least 61% according to polls, is a proposal to block all business bailouts and rescues unless it is related to a physical catastrophic event. I would make it universal, but we are talking about baby steps here. If a business makes bad decisions or fails due to the economy or technology, too bad. If they are hit by a hurricane, I won’t take away FEMA just yet, although it would be better if it was gone. Still a block to subsidy and bailout would be good.

3) A proposal to cease all military action that is not for defense. Actual attacks against the US, or full invasion of an ally may be considered defensive action. Policing the world is not our job, not our business, and is the biggest contributor to our foreign affair issues.

4) A gradual phase-out of all overseas military bases. An exception would be made for bases whose territory is permanently granted to the US as actual US territory. This gradual retraction would be spread over a minimum of 10 years to minimize the impact of returning soldiers on the US job market. We do not need to be spending money on overseas bases and propping up countries that cannot defend or support themselves. The cold war is over.

5) Implement a bonus program for governmental departments to save money. All departments receive a percentage of their savings in a payroll bonus, with additional percentage for the person(s) whose idea it was. A portion of the money saved will be kept in the budget for that department for the next fiscal period. Bonus percentages should be 20% department wide, split according to position and hours. 5% goes to the person(s) who offered the idea. 50% is kept in the budget for the following fiscal period to make certain the saving were real, and to discourage people from not saving for fear of a loss of budget levels. 25% is returned to the taxpayers or used to reduce national debt. This is to be done every year. The budget for the department, now reduced by 50% of the previous fiscal period’s savings is treated in the same manner as the previous period. The exception being the idea person only gets the one year bonus on those savings. Suggestions would be presented directly to an independent firm for analysis and to make sure an honest reckoning of whose idea something was, as well as to make sure ideas do not get pigeon holed by management levels.

That’s it for new stuff I think, although, like the last section, input and inspiration will likely lead to a lot more ideas. The thing is, I want to keep the range and number of things down to a manageable level, both in realism of the impact of the legislation on the current culture, and the realism of broad appeal.

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Comments

  1. I like it. 😀

  2. Ray Hawkins says:

    @Jon – Interesting proposals – a few questions:

    Vouchers:
    How do you address cream skimming?
    How do you address transportation of students?
    How do you address largely rural areas?
    How do you address highly concentrated chronically poor areas?

    Bailout Opposition
    How do you address downstream impacts in the value chain? (e.g. the dozens/hundreds/thousands of businesses involved in the value chain of “too big to fail businesses”)

    Non-defense Spending
    Would you increase spending on Intel operations?

    (sidenote – why do we have an Air Force yet nearly all other branches of military have their own air fleets?)

    Overseas Bases

    Love this idea!

    Bonus Program
    I have always believed that people behave in accordance with the way they are compensated.

    • Good questions Ray,

      “How do you address cream skimming?”
      We already have cream skimming, the rich kids and motivated parents are already pulling them out of the public schools. To some extent, this will create more of a mix since many parents will be able to afford the nicer schools. In the end, there will still be a cream skimming issue, but I am not convinced that homogenization has been good for our society.

      “How do you address transportation of students?”
      Parents using vouchers to pay for home or private education will work out transportation themselves or with the school they choose.

      “How do you address largely rural areas?”
      I do not see the issue here. This is not a proposal to move everyone to a voucher. This is a voluntary measure where people have the option of using the existing system or a voucher, their choice.

      “How do you address highly concentrated chronically poor areas?”
      See above. The point of this is to introduce competition, not force everyone off the current system all at once. The effect will be to reduce the total spending because the voucher cost is less than the current cost per child. This can translate to a savings, but it can also translate to more available funds for the remaining children in the system that can be used to help the chronically poor or the rural ones who might have increased transportation costs per child since the buses drive more to get the same number of kids due to several being pulled out of the system.

      “How do you address downstream impacts in the value chain? (e.g. the dozens/hundreds/thousands of businesses involved in the value chain of “too big to fail businesses”)”
      In most cases a failing large business will not be a total loss. There will be assets that will drop to a price attractive enough to be bought up by someone and a new company will form in place of the old or a competitor will move in. The trickle effect will still hit some people, but many will end up supporting whatever replaces the large company. In the end, it is a business hazard. If your primary client is not fiscally sound, you start looking for other clients. I guess trickle-down economics is real, eh?

      In light of the closing of bases, I might bump up foreign intel spending to compensate, but I think we already have enough to be honest. Maybe not in terms of effectiveness, but that is not something money will fix.

      People do behave based on compensation, tho that is not the only factor.

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        Just clarification Jon – cream skimming in the context of a voucher system usually refers to actions made by the school – not the parents – issue being is anything or nothing done with regards to private schools denying access to the school to voucher students because they do not fit a particular profile? (meaning – just because you have a voucher do I have to admit you?)

        • Ah, I see. I think that issue may be happening now also, just because you have money for tuition does not mean you get in, etc. I do not see how vouchers would make the issue worse. It may expose the issue because there would be more occurrences of it, but that could be a good thing. Pretty bad press for a school.

          It does bring up an important issue. Money tends to come with strings. I would want something to insulate schools from government oversight just because they have students with voucher money. Essentially, that money is taxpayer money, not government money, but that is a shaky argument.

    • Ray….as to the Air Force = Long Range Strategic bombers and jet aircraft for fighter protection and escort and close air support and air to air combat.

      Naval Air power – Strategic defense capability for protection of carrier groups and ships and ports. Limited offensive capability and the offensive capability is where no long range strategic surgical strikes are available due to distance. A carrier can get closer to enemy ports and inland targets than shorter range fighters. Also the Navy is specialised in electronic jamming and would often go in ahead of long range bombers to knock out radar facilities and such.

      Marine air for close support only.

      The Army has no bombers or fighters but aircraft primarily helicopter and slower moviing tank killers and close air support.

      Air Force is primarily to maintain air superiority to allow other factions for close air support.

      Example: The Army A10 (warthog)…designed for close ground support only. No defensive capability and helicopters and A-10’s would be sitting targets without air cover.

      In addition, each service’s air is trained for specific missions pertaining to that branch.

  3. 1) School Vouchers:

    Works for me. I would also like the DoE to be reduced to an advisory role, and shift all control back to the states. National standards should be established, but not be required, meaning the federal government would have no enforcement power.
    Funny thing about that particular special interest group. Unions have outspent the CofC and everyone else in this election cycle.

    2) a block to subsidy and bailout would be good.

    Strongly agree. I have been watching the local farming and seeing things that make little sense to me. Admittedly, I know hardly anything about farming, but seeing a field plowed under instead of harvesting the crop makes me think the farmer can make more by producing a poor crop, than he can make with high yields.
    My opinion, the government has made many farmers into a welfare class.

    3) A proposal to cease all military action that is not for defense. Actual attacks against the US, or full invasion of an ally may be considered defensive action.

    So retaliatory actions can/will still occur? I would rather bomb nations that promote terrorism than invade. When bridges and buildings are destroyed, let the people of that country decide if they are happy with a government that invites the US to pound them back into the dark ages.

    4) A gradual phase-out of all overseas military bases.

    One exception to consider. Strategic asset placement. Not sure what we want, not where, and that may be covered in where we have been deeded the territory.

    5) Implement a bonus program for governmental departments to save money.

    Love this one. Most departments operate by spending 100% of their yearly funding. If they have a surplus, their funding is cut the next year. So out of fear of funding cuts, the will spend wastefully.

    • I do not have a too much of a problem with bombing those who actively support or harbor terrorist activities, tho I would want it to focus on specific targets. Still, I would rather see an attack directly on the attacker, and if someone gets in the way then they will learn not to do it again.

      As for asset placement, I do not see that much need for asset placement all over the world if we are only interested in defending ourselves.

      • Playing Devil’s advocate.

        (The Cold War featured periods of relative calm and of international high tension – the Berlin Blockade (1948–1949), the Korean War (1950–1953), the Berlin Crisis of 1961, the Vietnam War (1959–1975), the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962), the Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979–1989))

        Was the cold war a mistake? Korea & Vietnam? Should we have allowed them to fall? Were we right to supply Afghanistan rebels with weapon’s? Not looking for a moral right or wrong, just USA’s self interest. If someone attempts expansion through conquest, at some point they become a threat to us.

        • Granted.
          I will say, however, that all of those you mentioned at least had grave mistakes in them. We played pussyfoot police in Korea and Vietnam, and were too wishy washy to commit to a proper declaration of war against an invader. THAT is what killed us, far more so than guerilla warfare.

          Also, the supplying of Afghani rebels did not work out too well in the long run for us or them. Perhaps them falling to the USSR would not have either, but I do not think our policy of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” served us well in the long run. That sort of thinking is too blind, kind of like “change for the sake of change”.

          • John,

            Pardon me, my good sir, but you did not answer the questions.

            Was US military intervention in Korea right or wrong?

            Same for Vietnam.

            Both were cases where an outside force was trying to take over another country. But how did it help us? Do we have the right to stop expansion by conquest if we are not threatened? Consider most countries did better under British rule than self rule. Countries under the USSR did not fare so well.

            So do we decide based on what is best for them, or for us? In my opinion, China would take Taiwan
            and Nigeria by force if the US were not acting as to deter them. Russia might invade Iran for their oil and the warm water ports.

            When should we act? If someone invades Mexico or Canada? Or wait until they are at our borders?

            • LOI

              Was US military intervention in Korea right or wrong?

              It was wrong.

              Same for Vietnam.

              It was wrong

              What right do you have to determine the political future of other people and their country????

              Consider most countries did better under British rule than self rule. Countries under the USSR did not fare so well.

              So your argument here is if your life -and by your definition only- it better as a slave then a free man, you have the right to enslave them.

              So do we decide based on what is best for them, or for us?

              You have no right to decide for them

              …unless you want them to decide for you

              In my opinion, China would take Taiwan
              and Nigeria by force if the US were not acting as to deter them.

              China has zero capability beyond the edge of their physical borders. Nigeria is under no threat.

              Taiwan is China. Why do you care – I thought you were American?

              Russia might invade Iran for their oil and the warm water ports.

              Unlike the Americans who forgot the brain-stupid lesson in Vietnam, and invaded Afghan and Iraq, the Russians do not forget Afghanistan at all. It destroyed the Soviet Union, and that will not be forgot for a hundred or more years.

              Russians do not forget like Americans.

              When should we act? If someone invades Mexico or Canada? Or wait until they are at our borders?

              First, no one can invade Canada – it is unconquerable.

              Mexico is equally unconquerable. America has no worries.

  4. lurking

  5. Bottom Line says:

    1) School Vouchers – Get rid of government – Buy your child books and take the time to give them lessons.

    2) Get rid of government – No business gets any sort of government funded bailout for any reason, ever.

    3) Get rid of government – Form local militias

    4) Get rid of government – Immediate shutdown of overseas bases – give weapons platforms to local militias.

    5) Get rid of government – Federal budget 0.

  6. Maybe, discuss term limits and/or how to reduce federal bureaucrats by 15%. Those might be good ideas.

    It’s getting out of hand & even TIME magazine is talking this week about possible civil war in America. I sure don’t see either political side looking for compromises & that’s not good.

    Just read a book that I recommend to everyone cause it’s about each of us. It’s a great read.
    http://www.booksbyoliver.com

  7. 5) Implement a bonus program for governmental departments to save money.

    Then you will create bridges that collapse, road that crumble, etc. because there is no accountability by either the bureaucrats or the government.

    Who are they going to fire?
    Who is going bankrupt?
    Where is the economic loss?

  8. TexasChem says:

    1) School Vouchers:Best thing since the invention of peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches…

    2) Another proposition that would likely meet a lot of support, at least 61% according to polls, is a proposal to block all business bailouts and rescues unless it is related to a physical catastrophic event:Thought we already had that and it was called…Capitalism.Seems to me some in Washington just make their OWN rules and don’t think they have to play by everyone elses!

    3) A proposal to cease all military action that is not for defense:Nope can’t agree to this one.You think the world is bad now…if America were not the world police how long before a different ideaology based upon freedom taking oppressiveness jumped into the spotlight and brought something to our front door?

    4) A gradual phase-out of all overseas military bases:Screw that!Build more bases and bring freedom to the entire world!America has been (up until recently with the commie and socialist bullshit agenda eating us from the inside out) the free’est’ peoples the world has ever seen!

    5) Implement a bonus program for governmental departments to save money:Hell no!How about just holding the departments accountable for their actions?None of these fake ass ethics violations with slap on the wrists!Jail time…

    • On points 3 and 4:
      No one has ever been free or embraced freedom in a meaningful and successful way that did not fight for it themselves. If you give people stuff, they don’t care about it as much. Just ask a section 8 landlord.

      Us “bringing freedom to the world” is bullsh#t. It is doomed to failure at best. It bankrupts us as well.

      As far as policing the world, I agree, it is bad, and without us it would get worse. Not my problem nor my responsibility. I want to help when help is requested, and not before, and maybe not even then unless a real understanding of what is at stake exists in the requestor. And even then, me wanting to help is me, and others like me. If we do a freedom fighter military division that is all volunteer personnel AND funding, then great. But I will not tax people to save some snot nosed European country from terrorists just so they can keep being socialists. Let it all burn down, then they will appreciate what a free country is and how important it is to be free.

      As for accountability, I am all for it, but we are talking baby steps here. This is addressing changes that can be done within the system we have, not the ideal system I wish we had, we are far from that.

      • I sit and I wonder-in the history of this world man seemed to have an intense desire to conquer lands and people-we supposedly have become more civilized and decided that conquering lands is unacceptable-if we step back and just mind our own business, as some recommend. I wonder what would happen. It’s easy to say but what would happen-what does history tell us-or can history supply this information-have we ever tried it.

        • SK Trynosky Sr says:

          VH, history tells us that peace loving peoples everywhere ….have been overrun by non peace loving peoples. I think that it is the human nature thing, envy, we want what we don’t have and either believe or are willing to believe that we don’t have it because someone has taken it away from us or we don’t have the chance to secure it. Not much different than the idea of coveting your neighbors new car or house. We live in societies because this protects us from our covetous neighbor as well as from ourselves.

          None of us are particularly happy with the United Nations and that is for a reason, it is a total failure. What we forget is that the original purpose was not a one world government but rather a collection of states who were unhappy with the first half of the twentieth century and wanted to act to prevent more repeat performances.

          Human nature is a double edged sword. Yes, it encourages evil and even barbarous acts to achieve goals perceived as lofty but it is also what drives us to progress. Eliminate pride, greed, envy etc. and you eliminate progress. It is better to seek to channel it.

          As I enter my 64th year next month, I, in many ways am sad that didn’t pursue my original goal to be a psychologist. What drives humans… well, that is just fascinating. On the other hand, I dropped out of the field because I saw too many making excuses for bad behavior. It is sort of like reducing crime by eliminating laws, fewer laws less crime. In psychology, fewer deviations, fewer mental illnesses therefore, psychology and psychiatry must be doing a great job. To quote the Duke again, “Not hardly pilgrim.”

          I always liked Issac Asimov’s “Foundation” trilogy because it was based on psycho-history, the ability to combine psychological responses and behavior with past historic performance which would allow accurate predictions of future history. Try proposing that to somebody.

          • SK,

            No, history has shown us that thievery and slavery is profitable, and at the end of the day, peaceful people always win.

            Do not confuse the cost of victory with victory.

            • SK Trynosky Sr says:

              Yes, but it is very painful along the way. We strive to do the right thing. See Churchill’s comment about “Their Finest Hour”.

            • TexasChem says:

              BlackFlag Stated:”No, history has shown us that thievery and slavery is profitable, and at the end of the day, peaceful people always win.”

              TC:I wouldn’t go so far as to trivialize histories recorded truths as a peaceful peoples win in a day BF!I was thinking more along the lines of years until they become so oppressed they fight back…which would make them…ahem…violent and not peaceable any longer!

              History has shown us that the weak get eaten!The majority of conquering societies manifested their need to expand that society by making room for its society, culture, beliefs through assimilating another.War IS peace to that conquering society!

              • “history has shown us that peaceful people always win.”

                Genghis Khan
                Alexander the Great
                Napoleon
                Caesar
                Attila the Hun

                Then consider modern history, WW1 & WW2. Peace come when oppressors and conquerors are
                stopped by force, by the blood of patriots.

                I think Muslim extremists are comparable to Hitler, and should be dealt with in a similar manner.

              • Hitler was a Christian, and sang in the Catholic choir.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Obviously Catholicism didn’t take.

              • SK,

                Given the history of the Catholic church, I think he followed their precedents rather closely.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Oh, Oh, here we go!!!!

                In particular I would like to bring your attention to the terrible things the church did in Latin America where, by jingo, they forceably converted all those nice peaceful peoples who never ever committed any violence against others, nothing like cutting out 25,000 beating hearts in a day or anything like that.

                Human history my friend is full of excesses. All sides do it and it is often done in the name of God. Not that the Deity would approve, (well maybe in Latin America he would have) but none the less done in his name. As you so aptly pointed out earlier eventually the sane, decent, good ones do win and stop the excesses….. at least until the next time.

              • SK,

                Using the words “sane and decent” in the same sentence and applying it to Catholicism is a contradiction.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Now, Now, Now, I was being generic on that applying it equally to any religion/entity which seems to go overboard.

                I must say however that your testiness on the subject is coming damn close to doing violence to me. You have your beliefs (or not), I have mine. I really try very hard not to allow myself to namecall.

              • SK,

                You have a bizarre definition of violence methinks.

                And keep holding in the name calling – it would be unbecoming.

                Up until the Rise of the Nation States, no institution on Earth was more responsible for more violent death of innocent people then the Catholic Church.

                Under its demands, it set forth the 30 Years War, resulting in the decimation of half of Central Europe and creating -until WW1- the greatest bloodletting Europe had ever known.

              • Texaschem

                As usual, you believe free and peaceful people are weak and only savages are strong.

                I guess you are totally surprised that civilization dominates the world.

                A society can only be “assimilated” if at its core it cannot resist ideas.

                Thus, the only society that you want is one of dictatorial tyranny the uses force to suppress ideas.

                You exhibit the great “self-centered ego” that creates savagery, and thus you are a fearful man.

                You believe your culture is somehow the best that ever can exist forever.

                Yet, here you are drinking alcohol, learned algebra, your computers were programmed by algorithms, live with the learning from alchemy, you call the leader of your navy “admiral”

                …due to assimilation of YOUR culture by Islam. Those and thousands more words are Islamic.

                I guess your in a bit of fix next time you see an Admiral – given his Islamic title…

              • Those words are NOT Islamic.

                They are Persian or Arabic.

              • TexasChem says:

                Beat me to it JaC…actually I was going to say Indo-European…

              • JAC and Texaschem,

                Guys,

                You use them because of Islam not because you love Arabs.

              • JAC,

                Thanks for you minor correction.

                The point stands:
                …due to assimilation of YOUR culture by Islam…

              • I use those words because they are part of the English language. I Use entrepreneur too, but that does not mean I subscribe to the current French culture. I am all for respecting history and learning from it, etc., but what happened with Islam or the Vikings, or the Catholics or the Christians or the Confusionists hundreds of years ago does not justify or damn the actions of anyone now. I do not respect Islam because it was the most noble of the conquerors in history. I respect it or disrespect it for what it is now. I do not disrespect Christianity for what it did centuries ago. I disrespect it or respect it for what it is now. I look at the bad parts of both Islamic and Christian histories as a warning and a lesson what not to do, not as a precedent for all they it are and will ever be.

                This back and forth over who is the worst religion in history is tiresome and irrelevant.

              • Jon,

                It is ignorant to claim that “this” religion is evil because of its acts and ignore the same evil of your own religion.

                Christians (thus their religion) have represented some of the greatest slaughters of human beings in the this and the last century, so I’m not to clear about how you can respect “their religion” if their religion does not condemn their own adherents.

                There are many cultural differences between Islam and the West –which does not make them wrong or evil and as humans are, what you do not understand you fear – what you fear you hate.

                It is this path of fear that is the evil, not Islam.

              • It is ignorant to presume that I subscribe to a specific religion, unless I have said that I do, which I have not.

                I do not fear Islam, nor do I have a problem with most of it as it is currently applied. I also do not fear Christianity, nor have a problem with the way most of it is currently applied.

                I am not ignoring the evils of history. I am not ignoring the evils of right now either. I am not unaware of the differences of culture.

                I am also not going to just chalk up an oppressive society to being “another culture I just don’t understand”. I am also not going to apply the differences of culture to Islam, since that religion is practiced in many places, and its implementation varies. Christianity is the same. Cultures are as large a part of our belief systems as religion. It would be ignorant to think that people are a slave solely to the religion they subscribe to.

              • Jon,

                Oh yeah, one other point.

                By your own admission, Christians do evil, Islam does evil, and Christians don’t do evil and Islam doesn’t do evil.

                So, perhaps it has nothing to do with the religion, but the people in their time?

                Perhaps, then, the attention paid to the religions is a ruse to deflect from the actions of the people.

              • Agreed. That was my point. This is why I get tired of the back and forth over what religion is the worst. It is irrelevant.

            • Peace wins, Peaceful people do not always.

  9. SK Trynosky Sr says:

    I am a voucher guy and you hit it on the head! Grant less than Public Education costs allowing the remainder to be rebated to taxpayers or spent in the Public Schools. It is the most win-win program I can imagine but it would obviously force result comparisons with public schools.

    To give Public School teachers their due, I think that most intelligent parents, who are involved would use vouchers. The dummies who don’t care would not. The results would be obvious. That in turn would force an acknowledgment that there are people out there who are lousy parents. This is anathema to liberals since as we all know, everybody is a wonderful parent .

    If the local school board provides busing to Public School students, it should for private school students too. The average cost per pupil in Public School should be the maximum paid. If they force you to send your kids to school, they should pick up the transportation tab.

    Private or religious schools should have to take anyone who applies if they accept vouchers. If the children are disruptive they can be expelled for cause. The other possibility is that the School Board funds in full the cost of special ed in private schools since they do it for Public Schools. If there is an admission that the kid has problems and a smaller private school cannot address them on a cost basis then that child is entitled, under current law to an education. A good swift kick in the ass might just do more but that is frowned upon.

    I like the reward part in government. Years ago I came up with a very simple way to save 30% on certain mailings from my agency. Despite being promised a bonus for it, twenty-five years later I am still waiting (I think they forgot), Hell, I never even got the coffee mug I was supposed to get as part of the package. most of the really bright folks in Civil Service would be happy to put their agency out of business or at least reduce the bureaucracy to manageable levels. I always get a kick out of my division, when first hired, I was an ordinary worker bee in a new department. If I ran into an insurmountable problem the Commissioner was a phone call away and had an open door policy. Eighteen years later, before I left, I had moved up in rank by five notches. If I had an insurmountable problem I now had to go through the director of operations, the program director, the Assistant Commissioner to get to the Commissioner, who never had time for me. Nothing succeeds in government like more government.

    • SK,

      TO improve Public Schools, phase-out and end Public Housing.

      • SK Trynosky Sr says:

        Interesting point you make. Jack Kemp wanted to sell the projects to the residents. Unfortunately, most low income projects outside of NYC are disaster areas.

        There are theories on Public Housing and many go back to Jane Adams. It is housing for the poor. It has worked well in places like NYC where there were pretty stringent rules. Many baby boomers in NY grew up there and ultimately moved out and prospered. That is not so true today. We have created a permanent underclass which the original residents were not. So today, Public Housing can be generational, an intent contrary to what the original sponsors wanted.

        It is so easy to fall into the plantation mentality both for the well intentioned masters as well as the unknowing slaves.

        Not quite sure though how eliminating the projects would improve Public Schools unless you mean that the concentrations of the poor in certain neighborhoods would decline. I do remember half jesting in my youth that rather than have projects or totally subsidized Section 8 buildings, all multiple dwellings should be required to house a percentage of the poor or those on welfare. My juvenile Pollyanna theory was that the poor, being dispersed, would emulate the successful and break out of poverty. Noting the current “gangsta” culture permeating the society, the effect would probably have been quite the opposite. “Hike those damn pants up Leroy!”

        • “there are people out there who are lousy parents.”

          At our school open houses you see the parents that don’t need to be there, kids well behaved and doing well. Missing are the ones who need to be present, asking what they should do to help their child succeed instead of fail.

          “It is so easy to fall into the plantation mentality both for the well intentioned masters as well as the unknowing slaves.”

          Well said, but you left out masters with other intentions, many of our politicians are deliberately trying to maintain and grow the dependent class for the voting block they can manipulate.

          Self interest is a primal driving force in humans. Everyone wants a better life, but some will not work for that goal. If given a cozy living, enough where they are comfortable, they coast, and do the least amount required.
          Makes a great role model for their kids.

          I would propose a 20 yr phase-out of federal public housing, but keep shelters open. This is to allow children in housing to be weaned of their dependence. It will make for some interesting liberal reporting, a single mother of three, living in a shelter where 20-50 have to share the toilet.(Wanna bet she’s overweight? I know, unfair, that’s not her fault either)

  10. Off Topic

    My sister had to go the hospital last week to have a pain pump removed. They left the catheter which was attached to her spine in place because it was attached so securely it was too dangerous to remove. Well, yesterday she went back to the hospital because a bump developed on her spine which was leaking spinal fluid. They said it was caused by infection. They rushed her to surgery to fix the problem. After the surgery the doctor said-“I don’t know how it happened but the catheter just dislodged from your spine-if it hadn’t you probably would have died from the infection because the catheter being attached to your spine would have spread the infection very quickly through- out your body”. All I can say is Thank you Lord-Glory be to God-I think I just witnessed a miracle.

  11. Hi Jon..

    Point one: Voucher system: If it were a no strings attached system, I could go for it. It if has strings (ie: cannot be selective, etc) I would not be for it. I am not in favor of tax supported schools anyway, however, it is life. But, as a private school, I would not want the right to be selective taken away in order to use vouchers. Additionally, I would want a limit dollar amount on the voucher and the parent would have to make up the difference if there is one. However, it seems to me that the voucher system eliminates addressing the quality issue when it comes to teaching. Eliminate teacher Unions and make teaching results an job necessity would seem to be a better way.

    I also see the proliferation of higher priced private schools.

    Point two: No bailouts…no subsidies. Period.

    Point Three: You ready for this? D13, here. I am for it. Defense only but define what defense is. Iraq was not a defense. Vietnam was not a defense. Korea was not a defense. (Please, my age friends, I grew up in the cold war and bought into the mantra of the domino theory and that a good defense is a good offense.) Works in football but not the world. I would not pussyfoot around with definitions of whom did what. (Example. Country A sponsors a terrorist group and attacks me. The country did not attack me but rather some extremists. I would have no problem with blasting that sponsoring country back into the dark ages by hitting total infrastructure. Take the gloves off in response. Bridges, roads, farms, water supply, industrial complex’s, schools, and hospitals would be fair game in response. It is brutal…it is final but it would work. I have never believed in selective strikes and just holding the “politicians” responsible. The ENTIRE country would be held accountable and not worry what the world thinks of us afterwards. If we are strong economically….the world will follow.

    Point Four: Why make the phase out gradual? We can absorb the military back over here. We have absorbed 17 million illegals…what is 1.5 million military? Do it…no defense of allies unless it is paid for by the allies.

    Point five: Bonus system. Have always liked bonus systems but there is a caveat that BF did bring up. Without strong controls on quality control….bonus systems do not work well. Even in the private sector, I have seen bonus systems manipulated in order to “make it”. I like the idea, but not without some very strong controls.

    • SK Trynosky Sr says:

      If it is not restrictive, I think it could be sold. If it is restrictive then the unions drag out the shibboleth that the private or religious schools just “skim off the cream”. What is needed though is s clear understanding that they are allowed to have rules and enforce them. Screw up and you are out the door. In my Catholic Grammar and High Schools we had such rules and they were enforced.

      You are right on the costs issue. There should be some parental contribution. That in itself would discourage those not totally committed and I assume there might be scholarships for others (which is where the schools could be selective). In case anyone cares, tuition in Bergen County NJ (One of the most expensive places to live in the US) for the average Catholic elementary school is around $ 4,000 per year the High schools are between $ 8,000 to $ 13,000. Respectively Public School costs here are $ 10,000 and $ 18,000. Vouchers are a win-win for everybody.

    • I am with you, I think it needs to be no strings attached. It would definitely be a fixed cost, one lower than public schools costs. If a parent can find a school at the price of the voucher, great, otherwise they make up the difference.

      On point two, I agree, but an overnight move to zero will be hard. I want the farm subsidies gone, but that it a tough sell, and would need to be gradual.

      Glad we agree on point three.

      Point four is not just for being careful about the local job market. There will be a lot to closing down a base and getting our gear out, etc. And not every soldier will be in a hurry to get back. It will be a process.

      Point five I can understand where you are coming from, but that could be a job for that independent overseer I mentioned.

  12. GO GREEN!

  13. TexasChem says:

    Claw and antlers baby!

    Texas Rangers played the ya’ll classic the other day when they ‘booted’ the Yankees ehh!?!
    Now they just gotta’ get their slings ready for the Giants!They already took out the goliath of MLB defeating the Yankees!

    • TC…isn’t it amazing that everyone on TBS just thought it was a fluke…..like the Yankees are supposed to win by default. The Rangers had one bad inning in the first game….but the next four were not even close. How dare the ‘Claw and Antlers” go into New York and take two of three….convincingly.

    • Murphy's Law says:

      I’ve been a baseball fan since I was 14 and fell in love with the game listening to the Astros (who were the Lastros most of the time, but that didn’t matter to me) on the radio. Been a Rangers fan since Tom Vandergriff brought them here from D.C……this has been a long time coming for baseball fans in N Texas.

      I just love how they weren’t at all intimidated by the “Yankee mystique” and except for about ten innings (out of a total of 54 they played against them), they just flat out dominated the series. There is something about their whole attitude this year….they started out with a slogan of “it’s time”, which I thought was just that, a marketing slogan. Seems like Ron Washington took that rather serious, then the claw and antlers thing really gelled them into a cohesive unit. Not to mention that Nolan Ryan and his owner partner Greenburg finally closed the deal and brought in some serious pitching.

      Now we’ll see if they can also handle the Giants. Not going to make any predictions.

      I am just loving this…..

      Murf

  14. TexasChem says:

    @-BlackFlag,

    Since ARABS attacked PERSIA (633-656) and with the end of the Sassanid Empire this became a huge turning point in Iranian history…Isn’t it odd that Iran never bacame Arabized? Unfortunately, Islamization in Iran did take place during 8th to 10th century leading to the eventual decline of the Zoroastrian religion in Persia.

    After learning the above I did some research and found out that only 2 to 3 percent of the population of Iran is actually Arabic and yet the Arabic Mullahs control the nation!I never knew this until researching it.Also after chatting with some Iranian students it seems to me there is a huge propoganda problem here in the US of A in relation to what were fed in the media in regards to the portrayal of their country but anyways thats another discussion.Oh I forgot I meant to say proto-indo european in my post above in regards to your claiming a few words were ‘Islamic’ if ya’ get my drift!

    My question though to you is how exactly did Islam eventually assimilate the Persian peoples since the Zorastrian religion was dominate until Islam arrived if the Arabs did not colonize in Iran?

    • SK Trynosky Sr says:

      Same way they did it everywhere else. Sword first, then taxation and discrimination if you weren’t then sword again. A truly peace loving religion.

      • SK,

        Yep, and just like any other empire.

        You imply they were alone in this process – which, of course, would not true.

        Further, they were noted as the most tolerant rulers up to that point in history – so much so, that people traveled to their cities to live and study and avoid the persecution the Christians dealt out.

        • SK Trynosky Sr says:

          Christians, like everyone else did on again, off again persecution depending on how the winds blew. Point is Islam did not originally spread like Christianity did.

          As a young man I was in grammar and high school when our schools were routinely visited by missionaries who were out there CONVERTING people to Catholicism. The old Maryknolls come to mind. They converted by example and good acts, (yes, I know about rice Christians in Asia). Christianity in general and Catholocism in particular seem to have given up on this in the name of ecuminism. There are of course exceptions.

          • SK,

            Say what?
            Islam did not originally spread like Christianity did

            Uh, yes it did.

            It was a backwater religion until seized by Emperor Constantinople’s political force, and then marched throughout Europe and the Near East by the point of the Roman sword.

            • SK Trynosky Sr says:

              How did Constantine, Emperor of Rome become Christian, did that little jerkwater religion sneak up and bop him in the head or something. Maybe they hypnotized him. How about those missionary guys who went in without an army?

              • SK,

                First, he didn’t become a Christian – he was on his death bed when he was “baptized” – whether he knew it or not.

                Second, it was a way to enforce a different pogram than what had proceeded. It was a political tool, not some revelation about Holiness or God.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                “In hoc signo vinces”

                I believe he got it from his Mom.

              • SK,

                Hahahahahha

                A bit of history there…

                He had entered a war. If he lost he could blame it on the Christians; if he won, well, he’d be Emperor and who cares what “religion” got the credit.

                As it was, he waited until just before his death to be baptized, and along the way, murdered his eldest son, 2nd wife, and his brother-in-law … but he liked his mom.

              • SK,

                Oh, and PS. Many historians believe he never wanted to be baptized, but was done without his acknowledgment as he was in no condition to argue – because he was dead.

    • Texas,

      And when Christian Europe invaded the Middle East, slaughter on a scale not ever seen in history was struck by those “pure” hands.

      Your history is myopic.

      i..Islam eventually assimilate the Persian peoples since the Zorastrian religion was dominate until Islam arrived if the Arabs did not colonize …

      Same way Christian religion infected all of Europe. It was a political tool used to centralize the people into a cohesive force of resistance and aggression.

      • SK Trynosky Sr says:

        The Crusades, if you are referring to them, were very bloody defensive wars where humongous excesses were committed. I like to think that if the Crusaders had stuck to what they were preaching they might have had some permanent success in the Middle East in re-establishing Christianity. Or, if Richard had stayed another few months.

        • SK,

          Your concept of defensive is bizarre. Just let you know, the Middle East is no where near the centers of Europe.

          The Crusades were doomed the moment they slaughtered their first city. The Arabs never forget.

          • SK Trynosky Sr says:

            Spain, Sicily, Greece, Albania and something bigger than them all, Christendom. Neither you nor I had a dog in that fight but it was thought worth fighting for by the people who lived it at the time. Their failures would have resulted in your wife and daughter being 2nd class citizens today and forever in the future. It was only the violence and threat of violence by Attaturk that brought Turkey into the western camp. Looks like that won’t make a 100th anniversary.

            Are you jesting?

            • SK,

              First, most of the towns and cities capitulated without a fight because the Islamic were far, far better and tolerant then the Vikings overlords that ruled before.

              My wife and daughter would have been perfectly fine as would yours have (and are). In fact, it is because Islamic victories that they are fine!

              The Islamics carried Europe out of the Dark Ages by providing art and science to the Endarkened masses of Europe. You live much better today because of them.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Really, they would have just let you alone huh? But then again, nothing would have seemed out of the ordinary about women being 2nd class citizens to either of us. It would have been the norm.

                I will certainly give credit where credit is due. There was a golden age. The Alhambra is beautiful. So, what happened to force them to abandon modernity and dive back into the 7th century? Why, by gosh, they must have entered their own Dark Age! Let us all hope for a renaissance or an Islamic enlightenment where they will have their own John Locke and we can all move forward expanding the rights of man together.

              • SK,

                Yep, really. I am a Celt on an Island. The same guys that walloped the Romans.

                You have no idea about their culture and their women. You are painted in myth and extremists – and no more than I’d point to your wife as a concubine because of some polygamists and free-love people of your culture, you should be very careful in assigning your assumptions as well.

                In a Muslim culture and most Muslim households, it is organized like the Jewish culture – men rule outside the home, women rule inside the home.

                What happened? That’s a book!

                European powers successfully hemmed in the Ottoman Empire and it never reached the Atlantic. The discovery of the New World for Europe was its launching point to global dominance – denied for the Ottomans and generally, Russia as well.

                They don’t need John Locke, they can use the real one, just as Newton learned from Ibn al Haytham.

                They can only find “their way” when we finally allow them to fine “their way”. It doesn’t have to be “our way”.

                They’ll be just fine doing it for themselves by themselves.

              • Ibn al Haytham

              • …this link

              • Here is a good video that highlights what I said – the age of the Atlantic creating the technical lead of the west.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Yeah, those nasty old European powers just refused to roll over and play dead.

                I guess that’s what pissed off the Ottomans to take out their revenge on those Armenians.

                But why the headlong dash into the 7th century?

              • Sk,

                All empires will resort to extreme violence upon their own people so to enforce themselves.

                The US Civil War proves Americans are not immune to this, either.

                Re: Headlong rush… did you not watch the youtube above your comment?

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Did not have audio at work. Listened to it, So? No one would deny the great leaps produced in that golden age nor the ones done prior to that in China but today?

                With the wealth available in the Arab world from petroleum one should have sen a blossoming of science again. One should have also seen an effort to remind everyone of the glory days. All we have seen is a crude attempt especially by the Saudi’s to create a theocracy to subjugate their peoples. Iran, as a secular state under the Shah was, if nothing else, an attempt to drag Muslims into modernity. Had Saddam been more gifted as a leader, he too might have boosted Iraq into modern times.

                Understand that i do not disagree particularly with anything you have pointed out, merely with what I see as a terrible waste of potential human capital.

                All religions, all faiths, have their dark sides. The church was not particularly kind to Copernicus but it was outgrown. I do not see that happening in the Middle East. The Middle East is like some low budget, post Apocalyptic “B” movie.

                Like slavery, there comes a certain time when you have to grow up and stop blaming your problems on the past and people long dead. It’s time for our Muslim brothers to do that.

  15. @-Jon, SK Trynosky and BlackFlag,

    BF-The technical lead of the west in todays modern times is a direct result of technology taken from the germans after WWII BlackFlag.

    All-I am not saying one religion is better than the other.I tire of trying to point out idealogical discrepancies that are detrimental to society with various belief systems as well Jon.All religions have offshoot denominations that have ideaology that is detrimental to a healthy society.I do not raise the problems with Islam just to be a bigot.My purpose is to point out and educate others as to the harmful effects it has within its own societies.The only logical, rational and idealogically correct belief system to pull values, ethics, morals, and mores from for a healthy society in which you would have a non-violent society in my opinion is the direct teachings of Jesus.Not Catholicsm, not Islam, not Mormon, not Baptist, not Methodist, not Pentecost, etc.The direct teachings of the Nazarene.If I am wrong then prove it.If you defend a particular idealogy and I can prove harmful effects from it do not get angry and defensive.That is just the way it is.

    • Texas,

      You are only out by about 300 years…..

      Review the videos I posted, it gives a very brief analysis.

      Essentially, the Islamic world prospered when they were the center of trade – primarily between the Far East and Europe …”the Silk Highway”…

      With the Age of Exploration, the trade bypassed the Silk Highway and went by boat – with England in command of the seas, she became the center of trade, and prospered.

      As the Silk Highway was bypassed, and the constant wars against the West and against itself, it degraded to a point that it could not resist colonization by the West.

      Re: Religion
      All institutions are fundamentally evil when they grow to a point that the existence of the institution is more important then the people who make it.

      Thus, Nation States are built on the same fundamentals as Religion – and with little surprise is often intertwined.

      However, what one society does is not yours to judge. If you don’t like it, don’t do it – but to condemn others that do not impose upon you creates evil.

      As far as teaching of Jesus, none exist.

      This is an important point.

      What you believe are such teachings are writings manipulated for political reasons to subdue you.

      Things have been added and subtracted and altered and re-written purposely to entangle your mind, create confusion – and once you are in such a state, someone leads you down a path. Since this path appears concrete, it is accepted – but completely untested for its truth.

      • TexasChem says:

        BF Stated:”What you believe are such teachings are writings manipulated for political reasons to subdue you.”

        TC:So you are implying that mankind has been manipulated for political reasons from the entire time when these writings first came into existence?

        BF Stated:”Since this path appears concrete, it is accepted – but completely untested for its truth.”

        TC:It is tested and has been for centuries through western culture.Especially the United States of America which contained the thoughts of men influenced by these very teachings within its very own Declaration of Independence and Constitution!

        Islam is still stuck in the 7th century with its sub-human treatment of women and children!It’s blatantly obvious.It impinges upon the very freedoms you yourself deem worthy.Life, liberty and the freedom to be in a non-violent society because by its very nature Sharia Law calls for violence as a punishment against a law.

        • Texaschem

          :So you are implying that mankind has been manipulated for political reasons from the entire time when these writings first came into existence?

          Fact:
          The first “writings” occurred a half a century after the “death” of Jesus, and continued for two hundred years.

          All the writings were done in the names of people who were long dead – easy writing since the people in the topics weren’t alive to debate.

          And, yes, the writings WERE there to manipulate the people – that is its only purpose.

          Whether you wish to debate that the manipulation was a “good” or a “bad” – …. that’s a debate, but the fact that its creation was TO manipulate is immutable.

          It is tested and has been for centuries through western culture.Especially the United States of America which contained the thoughts of men influenced by these very teachings within its very own Declaration of Independence and Constitution!

          It is utterly bizarre to believe that a written work done 1,000 years ago is immutable and without massive error in fact, philosophy, thinking, and reason.

          It is bizarre to believe that all the best man can achieve was thought of 1,000 years ago.

          Islam is still stuck in the 7th century with its sub-human treatment of women and children!

          Christians are stuck back there too. They have no problem in agreeing with the mass starvation of millions of Iraqi children for a political point.

          It’s blatantly obvious.

          Yep, you need only to look in the mirror.

          It impinges upon the very freedoms you yourself deem worthy.Life, liberty and the freedom to be in a non-violent society because by its very nature Sharia Law calls for violence as a punishment against a law.

          And no different does the “Christian” law.

          • TexasChem says:

            BF Stated:”Whether you wish to debate that the manipulation was a “good” or a “bad” – …. that’s a debate, but the fact that its creation was TO manipulate is immutable.”

            TC:Its creation was to enlighten NOT manipulate.Else by your own admission there would be opposing forces vying for control of Mankinds population.Good/Evil.Ehhh…?Man has his free will to choose his own path.

            • Texaschem

              Its creation was to enlighten NOT manipulate

              .

              You jest!

              From what we do know, the Christian religion was completely turned on its head 1,000 years after Christ by some dude named Paul.

              What you “believe” today is most certainly NOT the teachings by the Nazarene.

              Paul made up some crazy story of being visited by a vision of Jesus, and used that story to seize the loosely organized Christian sects.

              The rest is history as they say.

              Else by your own admission there would be opposing forces vying for control of Mankinds population.

              I have admitted such without hesitation.

              Savages vs. Civilization.
              Government vs. Freedom.
              War vs. Peace.
              Force vs. Voluntary.

              Good/Evil.Ehhh…?Man has his free will to choose his own path.

              “Good” is undefined except by an individual. There can be billions of “good things” all at the same time.

              But evil – definition is easy.

              “Violence upon the non-violent”

          • TexasChem says:

            BF Stated:”Fact:
            The first “writings” occurred a half a century after the “death” of Jesus, and continued for two hundred years.”

            TC:What is your point?Islams first written books were six HUNDREDS of years after Jesus.
            Islam is definitely, undeniably a politically manipulated creation by a man who boasted far more bizarre claims in Gods name.

          • TexasChem says:

            BF Stated:”It is utterly bizarre to believe that a written work done 1,000 years ago is immutable and without massive error in fact, philosophy, thinking, and reason.”

            TC:Precisely, it has evolved into what it is today and is still not stuck in the 7th century.

            • Texaschem,

              Sir, your own proof destroys your own claim.

              You continually refer to a 1,000 year old writings by long dead men about men who were long dead about things these dead men said to other people long dead.

              And you don’t think you are stuck in the past….

          • TexasChem says:

            BF Stated:”All the writings were done in the names of people who were long dead – easy writing since the people in the topics weren’t alive to debate.”

            And, yes, the writings WERE there to manipulate the people – that is its only purpose.”

            TC:Who,why and for what purpose?
            Islam traces its roots to Christianity.Christianity traces its roots to Judaism.Judaism traces its roots all the way back to the first recorded human records of the stories of creation on clay tablets in Sumeria!So does that lead you to believe the Sumerian version of human history or do you believe there is more that Historians and Archaeological experts have to find from an even older civilization?Perhaps who or whatever began histories recorded religions to manipulate the people has more in store for us! A-ha!

            • Texaschem

              Who,why and for what purpose

              Why?
              Control the people.

              For what?
              Create a cohesiveness independent on immediate personality and to extend control for the few over the great many.

              How do you think one man can control the minds of millions at the same time?

              Ancient tribes thrived and fell depending on the personality of leadership, and that personality could only express itself over its immediate area – no further than a man’s voice could carry.

              By establishing a “higher authority”, tribes were no longer fighting for some man they liked (or didn’t fight for the man they didn’t like), they fought for “God” regardless if they liked their leader or not or where their leader lived.

              It was used as a unifying force to control very large masses of people under a few small ruling elite.

              Islam traces its roots to Christianity.

              Yes, it is directly rooted in Christianity.

              Christianity traces its roots to Judaism.

              This is true.

              Judaism traces its roots all the way back to the first recorded human records of the stories of creation on clay tablets in Sumeria!

              Yep, similar events, different names.

              So does that lead you to believe the Sumerian version of human history

              “Believe”? In what matter?

              Yes, I believe there are writings in Sumerian. I have seen them with my own eyes.

              Do I believe what they write is an immutable truth?

              Nope, they did not know a lot of things I know today, and all they did is try to make the best sense of the world within the framework and world they understood.

              or do you believe there is more that Historians and Archaeological experts have to find from an even older civilization?

              There are probably more older civilizations that were a lot smaller. We know that the Greeks wrote about a civilization that we may have (or not) found that predates the Sumerians (the story of “Atlantis” is based on these people).

              Perhaps who or whatever began histories recorded religions to manipulate the people has more in store for us! A-ha!

              There are stories that attempt to explain a mysterious world to those that do not understand.

              There are stories that are used to manipulate and control the minds of people.

              They are not necessarily the same stories, though they can be used in that manner.

              • TexasChem says:

                I refuse to believe there is no grander reason for the purpose of the evolution and enlightenment of mankinds conciousness other than to just make plastic BlackFlag.
                I refuse to believe that there is not some unknown force playing into the equations and programming of Mans society throughout his history.
                By reason of logic these beliefs have just been deduced and admitted as truths with our conversations in above posts.

              • Texaschem

                I refuse to believe there is no grander reason for the purpose of the evolution and enlightenment of mankinds conciousness other than to just make plastic BlackFlag.

                The Universe does not care what you believe – only you care.

                I refuse to believe that there is not some unknown force playing into the equations and programming of Mans society throughout his history.

                “Unknown”?

                Very known! It’s called “The driving need to be ever more prosperous”.

                All men wish to enjoy better lives (excepting the insane).

                This drives curiosity and discovery.

                Man is unique because he can cause himself to change.

                By reason of logic these beliefs have just been deduced and admitted as truths with our conversations in above posts.

                Logic applied to irrational premises will probably lead to irrational conclusions.

              • And pray tell good sir, which premises were irrational?

              • Texaschem,

                Premise: A book written by men a thousand years about a dead man 1100 years ago about what he said things to other dead people 1100 years ago is immutable truth.

  16. TexasChem says:

    Those aggressors who attempt to impose their will and coerce through thought manipulation, political correctness, law litigation and ethical intimidation upon a non-violent man through non-violent means should be met with whatever means of force that is necessary including violence to prevent the assimilation of their culture, society and way of life by the non-violent man or else his people lose their way of life and are forced to adopt the aggressors.

    • Texaschem,

      So you argue you can use violence on non-violent men because you are too stupid to manage your own mind.

      • TexasChem says:

        BlackFlag,

        No, I argue that I can use violence because I do manage my own mind and can logical conclude that the belief in survival overcomes the belief of not using violence on a non-violent man.Pro/Con.The end result justifies the means of acquisition.If not, my way of life, freedom and liberty would be ended.

        • Texaschem

          No, I argue that I can use violence because I do manage my own mind and can logical conclude that the belief in survival overcomes the belief of not using violence on a non-violent man.

          Then, by the Law of Mutuality, have created the condition of your own enslavement.

          Pro/Con.The end result justifies the means of acquisition.If not, my way of life, freedom and liberty would be ended

          Those the use evil means create evil ends – it cannot be otherwise.

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