The Mindless Voice of Islam

Like many of you, I have spent the last few weeks watching the events unfold in Egypt. The people rallied to a cause and got to the point where they were able to cause a man who had wielded power for over 30 years to step down. And as many predicted (including that “nut job” Glenn Beck), the spirit of revolution has continued to expand throughout the Middle East. We have watched as protests erupted in Bahrain, Libya, Yemen, Kuwait, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, and Tunisia. As I watched all of these events unfold over the last couple of weeks, I found myself thinking about some of the discussions that have taken place here at SUFA. Because I believe that what the events of the last few weeks have shown is the fallacy behind some of the more prevalent sentiments espoused during those discussions. So I will put forth what I think these protests mean to us.

There are several of us here at Stand Up For America that have had the opportunity to spend time in predominantly muslim countries in the past. Be it with the military or in some other capacity, I can think of at least 4 or 5 who fall into that category. The one thing that I think we all have in common is a respect for the individuality of the people in those countries, the humanity of those people. Because we have come to know them, be friends with them, laugh with them and love them, we don’t see the 1.4 Billion people who practice Islam as any more the same than the 300 million who call themselves American. Unfortunately, that is not a sentiment shared by all.

But I believe it should be.

The claim by many is that Islam itself should be feared. It stems from a belief that anyone who follows that particular religion must believe the worst parts of it. We have seen similar sentiment in the past. How many of us now cringe when we see depictions in old movies where ignorant whites in America believed that blacks were lacking in intelligence, incapable of learning, or savages closer to beasts than humans? Over time the vast majority of us learned otherwise. Once forced to live alongside those who were different, most came to respect them and their individuality in the same way as other groups that were more familiar. Despite the claims from the progressive talking heads, the vast majority of Americans no longer see blacks as any different than the rest of us.

A similar fate can also be seen when we discuss the American political spectrum. We segregate the vast majority of the population into “left” and “right”. And for a great many people in America today they are driven to believe that those two groups are mindless masses who simply irrationally believe some dogma espoused by the elite. Yet when we rub elbows with folks from “the other side” we find that they are just like us, with the same conflicts and differences of opinion and varied beliefs. Yet we somehow think they are the exception. Matt, Buck, Todd, Ray, and Charlie are not the exception, they are a good representation of the majority on the left. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty on each side that are ideologically set in their ways and closed off to rational thought. But they are not the majority. When I talk about my displeasure with the left, the liberals, the progressives, the right, the conservatives, the religious right, etc, I am talking about the ideological leaders in those camps, who fall into that small minority but wield great power and influence. That majority of people have the ability to think, reason, and see the other sides.

Yet while all this may be obvious to everyone, there still remains that one group that is so mysterious and so separate from us that too many still see them as a solid block without individuality. There are too many who still fear what they don’t understand. There are those that simply refuse to acknowledge that those who practice Islam are as individual and unique as any other group on earth.

So I wonder how it is that those people who still believe that of Islam view what is happening right now in all those countries in Northern Africa and the Middle East. Are you finally able to begin to see that there are masses of people in every one of those countries who disagree with the actions of oppressive governments or stringent theocracies?

For years I have listened with a sad heart as too many told me that if Islam were not inherently evil, they why don’t the “good” muslims stand up for what they believe? Can you see now that they do? Can you see now just how dangerous it is for them to do so? In Iran the government police are killing protestors yet tens of thousands risk that and take to the streets. In Libya there have already been hundreds of casualties yet people still come out to have their voice heard. Without the same protections afforded to civil disobedience in the United States, hundreds of thousands of muslims have taken to the streets in nearly a dozen predominantly muslim countries.

I understand the issues that people may have with Islam. I understand that in many places in the world right now there are Islamic leaders who use the religion to oppress women and rally people against the western cultures. I understand that there are terrorist leaders who use the religion to inspire hatred and acts of pure evil against innocent people. But that is not the fault of the religion and it is not the fault of the vast majority of practicing muslims who want nothing to do with those actions. And before you go further with your line of thought, remember that there was a time when the christian religion was a catalyst for great acts of terror and significant oppression. It wasn’t the fault of the religion, it was the fault of those who used it for power. This is no different.

For many years you have watched and waited claiming that all muslims were the same. That the religion was a religion that spawned mindless action. For many years you have asked for some proof that muslims were not all the same, bent on the destruction of others and subservient to the religious words of hateful leaders. For all this time you asked for some evidence that Islam was more than a single mindless, hateful voice.

Are you listening now?

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Comments

  1. Wow, I get to go first despite being on the left coast. Insomnia does have its rewards. I have mixed feelings about the happenings in the ME and N. Africa. While I find the uprisings encouraging, I also fear that the more radical elements will use this to seize power. The anti-America anti-Israel retoric is prominent.
    All of this unrest brings up our own inaction with respect to oil. We have very little interest in the ME except for Israel and oil. When are we going to start using our own resources and getting off the ME oil teat? I do not even see any discussions about this.

    • Libya riots are blamed for a spike in oil prices, so that discussion may start up again. And I have posted a few times on our current oil supply situation. The Fed. gov. held in contempt in the gulf. Fracking technique offering some hope for us increasing our output despite the gov.’s actions.

      • There have been small earthquakes in Arkansas, and one theory is that the fracking is contributing to this. The zero-growth energy policy doesn’t need any more excuses to stop more production and kill more jobs. I hope someone with common sense steps in with a better idea soon.

        • I have seen several reports saying it is causing some contamination of the water supply. Earthquakes are new,
          thought that was AGW again….

        • New Madrid fault.
          Boom.
          New inland sea.

          Nothing to do with fracking in my opinion at all.Just good ol’ mother earth getting ready to let off some pent up energy.

        • I’d say its gone past the realm of curiosity and into concern…but hey that’s just my 2cp.

          http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/35.37.-93.-91_eqs.php

          • I just wanted to say “fracking”.

          • Sounds like it’s worth considering and researching. I wonder what depth are the injection wells and what depth is the New Madrid fault? Doesn’t seem likely the gas drilling is near the plate depth?

            http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110218/ap_on_re_us/us_arkansas_earthquakes

            The U.S. Geological Survey has reported more than 30 earthquakes in the area since Sunday, including a magnitude 3.8 quake Thursday morning and at least 16 others occurring Wednesday, two of which were magnitude 3.2 and 3.5. More than 700 quakes have occurred in the region over the past six months.

            Scott Ausbrooks, geohazards supervisor for the Arkansas Geological Survey, said the quakes are part of what is now called the Guy earthquake swarm — a series of mild earthquakes that have been occurring periodically since 2009. A similar swarm occurred in the early 1980s when a series of quakes hit Enola, Ark.

            Ausbrooks said geologists are still trying to discover the exact cause of the recent seismic activity but have identified two possibilities.

            “It could just be a naturally occurring swarm like the Enola swarm, or it could be related to ongoing natural gas exploration in the area,” he said.

            A major source of natural gas in Arkansas is the Fayetteville Shale, an organically-rich rock formation in north-central Arkansas. Drillers free up the gas by using hydraulic fracturing or “fracking” — injecting pressurized water to create fractures deep in the ground.

            Ausbrooks said geologists don’t believe the production wells are the problem, but rather the injection wells that are used to dispose of “frack” water when it can no longer be re-used. The wastewater is pressurized and injected into the ground.

            “We see no correlation between natural gas production wells and earthquakes, but we haven’t ruled out injection wells,” he said, adding that if production wells were the cause, the earthquakes would be scattered all over the region underlain by the Fayetteville Shale formation and not in just one area.

            Ausbrooks said the earthquakes are occurring in the vicinity of several injection wells.

    • T-Ray,

      I can understand the conflict that you face as you see that the turmoil in these countries could open the door for more radical groups to take root. This is a danger, but one that we have no one to blame for but ourselves. The anti-US sentiment is unfortunately somewhat warranted in some of these countries.

      But the point I was trying to make is that too often we treat the muslim population as a single entity when action such as this shows them to be as unique in thought and opinion as we are.

      USW

      • I have thought for some time that the anti-US/Israeli rhetoric is there mainly to give the masses a common external enemy. If these countries now turn inward and work on their own problems, tensions may in fact decrease. Also, I would have more confidence in the outcome if these countries had some experience with self-government and democracy. Our Revolution was unsual in that we had 150 years of experience in self government plus a cadre of individuals who educated themselves on the topic.

        • I think it’s quite ridiculous to assume that these people who are speaking out in the streets for their rights are not educated or prepared to take up responsibility in their governments. Do you honestly believe that the entire population of colonists knew how to run a country? Of course not. It’s why we have founding fathers, not founding society. Your arrogance and ethnocentrism is disappointing.

          If, as Americans, we value true Democracy we must accept the decisions that the people of Egypt make, understanding that any anti-US sentiments they might have is directly related to our past attempts to control and profit from the last regime. If we want to change their attitudes, we have to stop treating them like children and begin to respect them as a group of people who have the courage and rights to stand up for themselves.

      • Agreed, there is concern over the fallout of the protests, but the real point is that there are protests. Highly risky ones. This is not the anti-vietnam hippie stuff, tho that had more risk than many want to admit. This is “I might get shot, but I would rather that than live under this tyranny”. This is good stuff, any way you slice it.

        • Similar to how our Govt is always fighting “evil” or some great crisis like AGW. I think it’s all a distraction from their agenda, so we don’t notice it when stuff the people don’t want is being snuck in. IMHO.

  2. gmanfortruth says:

    Good Morning SUFA 🙂

    With a fresh blamket of snow on the ground, we begin a new week. During the Egypt uprising, I made it a point to watch for anti-American signs or events of that nature. I only saw one video, where there was hatred spewed towards the West. To be honest, that video seemed staged and had nothing to do with the uprising. I don’t pretend to know the mindset of Muslims in this world, but 20 years ago today, I certainly did not see any hatred that the media hypes all the time. Actually, I saw the opposite. They were very polite and generous in their actions. Those I spoke withlearned as much about American life as I learned of their life in the ME.

    Sadly, there are those that pervert the religion to breed hatred, much like we have very small minority groups like the Aryan Nation here. If Hollywood and the media could figure this out, our new “Cold war” would cease to exist.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      A few more points: All this talk of “strict Islamic government” and all this concern over it…..Why is it our business? Look closely at who is presenting this information and ask if they are credible. The media has portrayed Saudi Arabia as a strict Islamic government, but the people seemed happy to me, so why is this a “problem”? Because some talking hack on TV told us it is?

      • http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/02/red_lines_preserving_peace_wit.html

        To prevent a slide back to the conflict-ridden decades before the peace treaty, the United States, as the provider of tens of billions of dollars in military and economic aid over the past 30 years, should be prepared to unambiguously communicate “red lines” that no Egyptian government, military or civilian, can cross without incurring American opprobrium. Fulfillment of the terms of the peace treaty with Israel, unfettered passage of international shipping through the Suez Canal, prevention of smuggling across Egyptian borders, securing the Sinai Peninsula, and a zero tolerance for the presence of terrorist organizations on Egyptian soil are good places to start.

  3. USW,

    While I hope you are right, I am not sure the protesters are the moderates of Islam, denouncing violence. A lot depends on who takes power and what their intentions prove to be.
    It has also been noted that the protesters may not get the change they hope for(sound familiar?), but will be used to set up a strict Islamic government.

  4. Demonstrations in Tunisia and Egypt were represented as “peaceful and democratic,” never mind that neither country had any experience with democracy since the Roman republic. The peace rhetoric pretty much ignored the mayhem, killing, arson, and looting as long as it was done in the name of anti-regime sentiments.

    Indeed, hypocrisy became comic opera when pyramid tour guides brought counter-revolutionary camels and horses to the fray in Tahrir Square. Tragically, some of the animals and their keepers were summarily executed on the spot, presumably in the name of democracy.

    Nevertheless, in the space of a week, President Obama was pressing for “democratic” reform and Mrs. Clinton was holding the Cairo rioters up as a “model” for some undefined Arab utopia. Presumably, CBS executives, and possibly Ms. Logan herself, bought into this false narrative and wanted to be in Tahrir Square for the victory lap. Al Jazeera was the worst of the “revolutionary” shills, seldom broadcasting any footage that would challenge the anti-Mubarak narrative.
    The drumbeat from most reporters, following al Jazeera’s lead, was to portray the demonstrators as peaceful, diverse, ecumenical, and enlightened. No anti-American or anti-Israeli sentiments were reported. The stage was set for tragedy when CBS allowed a slight blond American to mingle with a predominantly male, testosterone fueled, anti-Semitic and xenophobic mob in Tahrir Square. Indeed, Christiane Amanpour, Katie Couric, and Anderson Cooper had already experienced near misses. And if Christina Lamb’s research on the subject is to be believed, the photogenic Mr. Cooper was as likely to be assaulted as any female reporter.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/risky_business_lara_logan_and.html

    Adulterers, especially females with celebrated indiscretions, are seen as prostitutes or worse in the world of Islam. No Arab male would fear prosecution for assaulting such an American infidel, even one with press credentials. CBS executives had to know this; which probably explains network attempts to hide the Logan’s trauma from Egyptian authorities and the American public. A cowardly media mainstream is unlikely to seek justice for one of their own, especially a woman. Treasured illusions about Muslim civility are too important to put at risk.

    Lara Logan’s image was not the only risk factor. The near universal refusal of the professional left, the academy, and several American administrations to recognize or confront the golems of Islamic and Egyptian culture are part of the back story too. Many religious or cultural practices enable the abuse of women in Egypt and other Arab communities. These include, but are not limited to: vindictive fatwas, child marriage, honor killings, genital mutilation, amputations, stoning, purdah (burkas and hijabs), polygamy, consanguinity, slavery, and death penalties for adultery. Christina Lamb’s Afghan protégé characterized women under Islamic law as “insects in the dust.”

    The silence of American feminists on institutionalized Arab misogyny is deafening.

  5. TheDC’s Middle East crib sheet: Egypt, Tunisia, Libya — and which country may be next to see regime change

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/19/thedcs-middle-east-crib-sheet-egypt-tunisia-libya-%e2%80%94-and-which-country-may-be-next-to-see-regime-change/#ixzz1EbRTIkkh

  6. gmanfortruth says:

    Frozen Crabs & the Blonde Stewardess

    A lawyer boarded an airplane in New Orleans
    with a box of frozen crabs and asked a blonde flight attendant to take care of them for him.

    She took the box and promised to put it in the crew’s refrigerator. He advised her that he was holding her personally responsible for them staying frozen, mentioning in a very haughty manner that he was an attorney, and proceeded to rant at her about what would happen if she let them thaw out.

    Needless to say, she was annoyed by his behavior. Shortly before landing in New York , she used the intercom to announce to the entire cabin, “Would the attorney who gave me the crabs, in New Orleans , please raise your hand.

    Not one hand went up…. So she took them home and ate them.

    Two lessons here:

    1. Lawyers aren’t as smart as they think they are.
    2. Blondes aren’t as dumb as most folks think.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      A man and a woman were sitting beside each other in the first class section of an
      Airplane..

      The woman sneezed, took
      Out a tissue, gently wiped her nose, then visibly shuddered for ten to fifteen
      Seconds.

      The man went back to his
      Reading. A few minutes later, the woman sneezed again, took a tissue, wiped her nose, then shuddered violently once more.

      Assuming that the woman might have
      A cold, the man was still curious about the shuddering. A few more minutes passed when the woman sneezed yet again. As before, she took a tissue, wiped her nose, her body shaking even more than before.

      Unable to restrain his curiosity, the man turned to the woman and said, “I couldn’t help but notice that you’ve sneezed three times, wiped your nose and then shuddered violently.

      Are you OK?”

      “I am sorry if I disturbed you, I have a very rare medical condition; whenever I sneeze I have an orgasm.”

      The man, more than a bit embarrassed, was still curious.
      “I have never heard of that condition before” he said.

      “Are you taking anything for it?”

      The woman nodded, “Black Pepper.”

    • AMAZING SIMPLE HOME REMEDIES:

      1. AVOID CUTTING YOURSELF WHEN SLICING VEGETABLES BY GETTING SOMEONE ELSE TO HOLD THE VEGETABLES WHILE YOU CHOP.

      2. AVOID ARGUMENTS WITH THE FEMALES ABOUT LIFTING THE TOILET SEAT BY USING THE SINK.

      3. FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE SUFFERERS ~ SIMPLY CUT YOURSELF AND BLEED FOR A FEW MINUTES, THUS REDUCING THE PRESSURE ON YOUR VEINS. REMEMBER TO USE A TIMER.

      4. A MOUSE TRAP PLACED ON TOP OF YOUR ALARM CLOCK WILL PREVENT YOU FROM ROLLING OVER AND GOING BACK TO SLEEP AFTER YOU HIT THE SNOOZE BUTTON.

      5. IF YOU HAVE A BAD COUGH, TAKE A LARGE DOSE OF LAXATIVES. THEN YOU’LL BE AFRAID TO COUGH.

      6. YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE – WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN’T MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN’T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE DUCT TAPE .

      7. IF YOU CAN’T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU’VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.

    • Top ten ways to tell if you might be a member of a public-sector union

      10.) You take a week off to protest in Wisconsin and your office runs better.

      9.) On a snow day when they say “non-essential” people should stay home you know who they mean.

      8.) You get paid twice as much as a private sector person doing the same job but make up the difference by doing half as much work.

      7.) It takes longer to fire you than the average killer spends on death row.

      6.) The worse you do your job, the more your boss avoids you.

      5.) You think the French are working themselves to death.

      4.) You know by having a copy of the Holy Koran on your desk your job is 100% safe.

      3.) You spend more time at protest marches than at church.

      2.) You have a Democratic congressman’s lips permanently attached to your butt.

      1.) You pay more in union dues than you do for your healthcare insurance.

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/21/top-ten-ways-to-tell-if-you-might-be-a-member-of-a-public-sector-union/#ixzz1EbpsMOBq

    • I’m a blonde… 🙂

  7. I fail to see how the toppling of a U.S. puppet dictator in Egypt is grounds for making the rash statements you have made implying that Islam has now changed its core idealogical teachings.The Muslim brotherhood is responsible for pushing the “revolution in Egypt” and once the new government has been placed in power you will see their influence after they have integrated into the Egyptian military and no longer have to fear repraisal by it.

    Please post your sources that back up your premise that the religion is not at fault due to core idealogical beliefs for the THOUSANDS of deaths yearly.

    After you do that would you explain why you believe the Muslim immigrants into western nations society do not integrate.Let us know why Germany, France and Australia now believe that the multiculturalism experiment has failed in their countries.

    The same core military/political idealogical beliefs that Mohammad used to gain power are the same that created the Islamic empires and are the same being used today.

    You stated USW,
    “The claim by many is that Islam itself should be feared.”

    I am stating it is not to be feared but UNDERSTOOD.

    Read the Hadiths and Suras.Read the histroy of Islam from the time of Mohammad.
    Understand the difference in the Sunni, Shiite and Wahhabi beliefs.
    While the average American belief of freedom of religion is a good moral and ethical belief do not allow your belief in that concept to make judgement of a religion until you understand that religion.
    If I started a religion that had a core premise of sacrificing your firstborn child would the belief in freedom of religion justify its existance? NO.
    Why then would you allow a religion to exist in your society that holds honor killings, the oppression of women, and murder for blaspheming their prophet a legitimate place in society?

    • TC,

      I made no claim that the protests were being done by more moderate muslims. I made the claim that this shows that muslims are not all of the same mind, a fact which you refused to acknowledge even in your response here.

      As for your faulty request of showing sources that their religion is not the one at fault. That you refuse to see the very hypocrisy of what you are saying is disappointing. We can, and many have done so repeatedly in discussions with you in the past, show that the Christian religion has teachings and passages that are every bit as violent as what Islam has. You for some reason continue to say that one book saying something bad is OK while the other is proof that the entire religion is violent and flawed.

      I have read the hadiths and Suras. I have lived in those countries for extended periods of time. I have talked with the people and learned to know them as people. I do not believe that you have. You are too smart to believe what you believe if you had. I think that what has happened is that you have gained a very rudimentary education of Islam that was given to you by those biased against the religion. And you take that limited knowledge and then claim to be an expert in the religion and denounce all those who you feel are not as “educated” as you.

      So I tell you this again. I have read their holy teachings. I have lived among them and gotten to know them. I have studied religious history for the last 20 years as it is a passion of mine. You can stop speaking to me as though you are going to teach me what the religion is. I tell you that you don’t know the religion. Your description shows that to be true.

      Every belief has a legitimate place in society. The day that you start believing that you have the right to determine what is right and wrong for others is when you have completely fallen off the train of liberty. We have LAW. THAT is what regulates society. We do not allow honor killings, murder for any reason, or the oppression of women in OUR society, so I see no reason for your baseless fear of what they teach. No one has espoused accepting things that violate our laws as legitimate.

      It would appear that you lack the ability to see people who think differently than you as individuals. You are forever stuck in believing the title to this article is accurate. They are all just mindless sheep following the radicals. That shows that you don’t know them at all.

      USW

      • “You can stop speaking to me as though you are going to teach me what the religion is.”

        Touche USW!

      • While their is indisputable evidence that christianities doctrines have been hijacked by various world leaders and been the scourge of the earth several times you fail to recognize the difference in Islam and Christianity today.The historical timeline and core teachings are indisputibly opposites to the extreme.You want to take old testament historical records that were said to have happened 6000+ years ago and has evolved, to a religion that was founded 1200 years ago with absolutely no change in doctrine.Judaism and Christian holy books are written by different authors in different times throughout the religions history.Islams holy writings are about the beliefs of one man and one man only.

        Mohammad is the prophet of Islam.Jesus is the Savior and
        a prophet of Christianity.This is a true statement with no possible means of being misinterpreted.Nowhere will you find in the teachings of the Nazarene any harmful beliefs towards society.Yet Mohammads life was full of teaching harmful beliefs and performing harmful actions.There is no misinterpreting scripture as was done in christianity with certain scriptures from the Koran.They are blatantly self evident!

        Mohammad had to convince his followers to
        adopt Islam.The crescent moon which is a symbol of Islam is also a symbol of the moon God which was worshipped by the Arabs of Muhammad’s time. One of the names of the moon God was Al-Ilah which is most likely where the word Allah came from. The Kaaba was the house of the moon God and is the holiest place in Islam.This is how he did it.

        O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [Koran, al-Ma’idah 5:51.11]

        Ignore disbelievers and their poisonous talk. [Koran 33:48]

        What if they start having doubts on their own and start spreading those doubts? You could terrify them into being silent about those doubts by instructing your followers:
        Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

        You could also threaten them with burning in the eternal fires of hell if they don’t believe.
        Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. (Koran 22:19-22:23)

        One way to increase your wealth and power and wipe out those that spread doubt about you at the same time, would be to conquer the infidels who dare not honor you as their prophet and seize their money. You might instruct your followers:
        Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

        If you wanted revenge against those who refuse to accept your religion and you were a totally ruthless and vicious sicko you might tell your followers to torture the non-believer. You might say:
        Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. (Koran 69:30-37)

        and

        I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

        and

        They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

        Smiting above necks by Muslims in modern times can be seen here.

        Inevitably you will find some people who don’t believe in you because they already believe in other religions. It would be much easier to manipulate people into believing that you are a prophet if you argue that your God Allah is the same as their God. According to the following text in the Koran Muhammad did this. In this text Allah is God, Isa is Jesus, Marium is Mary the Taurat is the Torah and the Injeel is the New Testament.

        5.44] Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; …[5.46] And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).

        Saying that Allah is the same God as the God of other religions may create unexpected problems. What if other religions teach, that killing the non-believer is wrong? The Jewish Mishna teaches that:

        whoever destroys one life is regarded by the Torah as if he has destroyed a whole world; and whoever saves one life, is regarded as if he has saved a whole world.

        According to the Koran, Muhammad did not deny that Allah had said this but explained that it did not apply to killing non-Jewish infidels. Muhammad said that Allah said: (Koran 5.32-5.33)

        32. That is why We decreed for the children of Israel that whosoever kills a human being, except (as punishment) for murder or for spreading corruption in the land, it shall be like killing all humanity; and whosoever saves a life, saves the entire human race. Our apostles brought clear proofs to them; but even after that most of them committed excesses in the land.

        33. The punishment for those who wage war against God and His Prophet, and perpetrate disorders in the land, is to kill or hang them, or have a hand on one side and a foot on the other cut off, or banish them from the land. Such is their disgrace in the world, and in the Hereafter their doom shall be dreadful.

        Muslims often quote 5.32 out of context to show that Islam is a benevolent religion.After the failed car bombing attempts in London by Muslim doctors, Dr. Asma Mobin-Uddin, of the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR) in an editorial in the New York Post 7/4/2007 wrote that:
        “The Koranic verse that equates saving one life with saving the lives of all of humanity teaches me the sacredness of each life and inspires me to strive for professional excellence.”

        and yet tking this verse out of context in this way is extremely deceptive since the only reason that verse is in the Koran is to justify killing and maiming Jewish infidels.

        Dealing with the problem of compassionate verses in religions that you incorporate into your own is only one of your problems if you are trying to be a wealthy prophet. One problem with encouraging your followers to attack and loot the infidel is that the non-believing infidel might defend himself. That might deter your followers from attacking. You could give them the incentive of being able to keep the booty. You could tell them:

        The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah’s cause … will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) (Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Vol 1 Book 2 Number 35)

        Do you doubt that Islam was designed by Mohammad as a politcal/military idealogy for his own benefit?
        The Turkish historian Seaddedin wrote about how the offer of booty motivated Muslim soldiers when he wrote about the fall of Constantinople to his fellow Muslims in 1453. He wrote:

        Having received permission to loot, the soldiers thronged into the city with joyous hearts and there, seizing the possessors and their families, they made the wretched unbelievers weep.

        You could give them the incentive of sex also by saying that it’s fine with Allah if your followers have sex with the captured women and keep them as slaves.

        33:50 – “Prophet, We have made lawful to you … the slave girls whom God has given you as booty.”

        4:24 – And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses.

        Still the risk of death might deter some of your followers. If you were a brilliant and evil man you might think of and carry out the following ingenious solution to the problem. You could tell your followers that they will go to paradise if they die fighting for the faith. You might complete the previous sentence as follows:

        The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah’s cause … will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). (Hadith Sahih Bukhari, Vol 1 Book 2 Number 35)

        and remind your followers that:

        “Know that paradise is under the shades of swords.” Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

        So tell us what it is like to be in paradise your followers might ask. You might say that those who enter paradise will enjoy:

        “abundant fruits, unforbidden, never-ending.” There will be “gushing fountains” and everyone “shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine.” Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

        That might not be enough to convince your lusty male followers to risk death in battle so you might tell them some even more thrilling aspects of Paradise. You might tell them:

        “Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before … virgins as fair as corals and rubies,” sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of “virgins chaste and fair … they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets.”

        By now you have a rapt audience of eager male listeners. How many virgins are there for a man who dies for Allah an eager follower asks?

        Why the smallest reward for every believer who is admitted to Paradise is 72 wives. The proof is in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on “The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah,” Chapter 21: “About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise,” Hadith 2687). The Tafsir of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: mentions servants as well “It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim that Abu-al-Haytham Abdullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a.'”

        Are they really virgins a starry eyed follower asks?

        The chastity of the black-eyed was not violated by man nor jinn (verse 74 of Surah Al-Rahman (55))

        What if a follower is concerned that when are surrounded by all those women he won’t be able to do it? Tell him not to worry. TIRMZI, vol. 2 states on page 138:

        A man in paradise shall be given virility equal to that of one hundred men.

        Even with all this incentive there may be some of your followers who are afraid of getting hurt. They may be afraid of dying, the cowards. Not only that but they may fear that since they haven’t led the most moral life they may not qualify for paradise and spend eternity in hell. Reassure the miserable cowards. Tell them that the rewards of Al Shaheed (Martyr) include:

        (Hadith Tirmidhî and Ahmad):

        · He will not feel the agony of death.
        · He does not feel the pain of the killing except like that of a pinch.
        · All the Shaheed’s sins and faults are forgiven with the first drop of blood that comes out of his body.
        · The soul of the martyrs dwell in Paradise whenever they like.
        · Allah will marry him to Hur-al-een.

        On and on we can go USW.
        Did you forget about these direct teachings of Mohammad when making your above statement?Or do they not count for some reason even though they are contained within Islams holy teachings.The direct words of Mohammad.The direct teachings of a man motivated by greed and power.The same as the majority of the popes and kings in regards to christianity.No difference at all.

        • “No difference at all”

          My point exactly. There is no difference between the horrors of Islam and the horrors of Christianity. Yet you conclude that because of this, the vast majority of muslims are bad and the vast majority of christians are good. How exactly does that make sense?

          • Nope.
            What I’m saying is the same drivel from Islam preached in the 7th century is still being preached today (and always has been since its beginings, I mean cmon man…what Muslim is going to go against the direct teachings of their prophet) while the majority of christian communities have broken away from the Protestant and Catholic mis-teachings which justified past historical horrors.Simple enough.

        • The fact that Christian writings have spanned a lot of time proves nothing. The Canon was assigned the duty of creating a continuity of biblical texts. There are LOTS of scriptural texts, both historical and theological, that did not “make the cut” due to inconsistencies. And even after this, perhaps especially after this, were the greatest atrocities committed by the Christian world.

          Christianity has evolved. Islam has as well, tho, in the middle east at least, maybe not as much. Still, your broad brush mindset is way out of line, and you know it, or at least you should know it.

      • USW Stated:”It would appear that you lack the ability to see people who think differently than you as individuals.”
        TC:What? Trust me sir I can definitely tell the difference between myself and someone who thinks differently.We would have to be seperate individuals for that simple fact alone.So yes I see them as seperate individuals. Do I not have the right to disagree with inhumane acts perpetrated by “individuals”? ! ? ! ? Acts no one can argue for that are against societies best interests?

        • I didn’t say you couldn’t see those who see differently than you as different. I said that you cannot see Muslims as individuals. You instead classify 1.4 Billion people as all the same as the radicals within their midst.

          • So in reference to the direct teachings of Mohammad only the faithful are real Muslims?
            But if you are not a faithful Muslim you are an apostate according to Mohammads direct quoted teachings and…should be put to death?
            So how many of the 1.4 billion are not faithful?
            How are you differentiating between a radical and a non-radical?

            How can there be a moderate Muslim?Are you saying that there are unfaithful Muslims that are not following their religious doctrines?

            • Yes… Just as there are millions of Christians who are faithful christians yet they do not attend church or follow all the teachings of the Bible.

      • I am not trying to put words into your mouth USW but…
        since you have read the Koran and the Hadiths then I take it you agree with their doctrine and believe it can be integrated into western society?
        What exactly are the premises from Islams idealogical beliefs that you are defending when you ended your Mindless voice of Islam paper with the statement “Are you listening now?” ???

        • I did not say that they should be “integrated into western society.” I said that we have laws. Where their beliefs do not conflict with our laws they should be free to do as they wish in our society. Where there is conflict, they cannot. No one has advocated that honor killings or oppression of women be “integrated into western society.” And you know that.

          I did not defend any of Islam’s ideological beliefs. I defended the people who practice Islam as unique and different. You are so caught up in what you don’t like about the religion itself that you cannot see the people as individuals. When I said “Are you listening now,” I specifically preceeded that question with an entire paragraph explaining what I was talking about. Perhaps you should go back and read that again and then re-phrase your question.

    • Tex,

      In all countries that have immigration all complain about the “destruction” of their “culture”.

      It is merely a fear of people that others do not understand.

      And, in all cases, the fear was unfounded and the immigration has been very positive for the nation.

      • I am rather fond of my culture.We treat men and
        women with respect and as equals.
        Children as the future and life as the most important resource in the Universe.
        Why would I want a positive influence upon my society corrupted by a belief system that negates this?

        • You also treat homosexuals as though they are less than equals…

          • I don’t feel bad for disagreeing with the gay lifestyle.I feel no guilt for thinking it against the laws of Nature and of Natures God!
            Prove to me how it is a positive natural lifestyle for the betterment of mankind and society and I will convert!

            • No one asked you to convert. I simply pointed out your intolerance for something that your religion teaches as bad.

              • It has “diddly squat” to do with religion.

                A thinking rational man can fathom for himself logically the detrimental harm of the gay lifestyle to his society whether he is Atheist, Christian, Islamic, Hindu or Buddhist.

            • I direct your attention to John 8 when the adulteress was brought before Jesus and it was demanded of Jesus that he judge the woman according to the Law of Moses. We are both aware of what our Lord said and did.

              I direct your attention specifically to John 8:15 (“Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.”) and I respectfully ask what your understanding of this verse is?

              For reference I follow the KJV version.

            • USW did not even say you were out of line for disagreeing with the gay lifestyle. He said you treated homosexuals as less than equal, and you did not deny this. Even if Christian theology, homosexuals are human beings, children of God needing forgiveness just like the rest of humanity.

              They should be treated as such by someone like you. By someone like me, I treat them as individuals deserving freedom, just as much as you are. Their lifestyle is irrelevant.

            • Texas Teacher says:

              Mr. TexasChem – I have spent much of my life in my “gay lifestyle” bettering and improving my own life, the life of my partner and the lives of hundreds of children (not to mention time defending your right to say the things you say here and likely in public). What I do to “better” things has nothing to do with how my partner and I show each other affection (publicly and privately) and what we do in the bedroom. In my neck of the woods in Texas (NE of Houston) your attitude is quickly and thankfully becoming a minority fringe attitude.

        • And with all that equality and respect between men and women, we still have an ugly undercurrent of violence – some specifically targeted towards women.

          While children are the future, etc., we still have violence targeted towards children.

          Our culture is far from perfect, as Islam is far from perfect – but lumping all into one category of belief or behavior is unreasonable and biased.

          • Thank you PS, for recognizing the point of what I was writing.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Hell, Things sure go fast around here! I’m still trying to figure why some people see these revolutions as religious. Religion has nothing to do woth the uprisings in the ME, it’s purely economical. The idiot MSM here can’t get nothing right. Once again, It’s the economics, not the religion.

            • I am in agreement with you.

              That’s not to say that religious radical elements have just as much a possibility of grabbing power as any other group (either secular or religious).

              We’ll just have to wait and see.

  8. Good morning, SUFA….Back a day early….will read from last wednesday to catch up. Hope all is well.

  9. An article was written by an Egyptian during their protest.

    When the police withdrew and the government opened the prisons full of violent criminals, he knew the government was trying to seed massive violence on the people but in a way that the people would beg the government back.

    Without any overt organization, the Egyptians spontaneously organized themselves into neighborhood defense and as a result there were very few actual instances of massive violence and the protest continued.

    In his post, he made an interesting observation.

    His neighborhood defense team was made up of a mix of Christians and Muslims – standing together resisting the government and the criminals.

    On Friday, the Muslims are required to pray – and the Christians of the neighborhood came out and surrounded the Muslims as a human wall to protect them during their prayers.

    On Sunday, the Christians held mass. The Muslims came out and surrounded the Christians as a human wall protecting them.

    As the author noted – they were Egyptians protecting Egyptians.

    • Could you post your source.
      This is all well and good but the last information I had of the Coptics was that the Coptics were treated as second class citizens and that several churches had been attacked by muslims and police.

  10. Bottom Line says:

    I’ve been to the middle east. People are people in spite of even extreme cultural differences.

    The honest truth is that I could care less what they do over there. I don’t give a damn about anything over there, except how it effects my fuel bill.

    Seek oil elsewhere – drill domestic – get ALL of US money, politics, and military out of middle eastern issues.

  11. 🙂 For comments while I catch up on the existing comments. lol

  12. USW Stated:” You can stop speaking to me as though you are going to teach me what the religion is. I tell you that you don’t know the religion. Your description shows that to be true.”

    TC: Then tell me what facts of the religion I have misinterpreted oh great Islamic Imam! :0
    What is your description of the religion?

    • My description doesn’t matter. The point is being lost on you. Your own religious text has passages that are horrific in nature as well. Should you be judged because that exists in the text or do only Christians get the benefit of being seen as rational human beings who don’t take the literal meaning to heart? I am not an Imam, nor do I practice the Muslim faith. But I have friends who do and they are every bit as good a people as any Christian that I know. They are certainly more tolerant of Christianity than you are of their religion. THAT is the point you cannot comprehend.

      • USW Stated:” Your own religious text has passages that are horrific in nature as well.”
        TC:The Old Testament teachings do, I agree with you…and yet the Old Testament does not apply to followers of the new covenant with God.The New Testament.Followers of Christ.You mis-direct with your above statement.
        My personal beliefs incorporate wisdom I deem worthy from the Old Testament, including the Apocrypha and other writings left out by the Council of Nicea b-e-c-a-u-s-e—I study history.Something you should study about Islam.

        • And some random muslim in another country doesn’t have the ability to incorporate wisdom in what they deem worthy from their text?

          I will let that “something you should study about Islam” go. You obviously believe me uneducated. I don’t care to get into a who has a bigger wanger discussion over who studied more history.

          • USW Stated:”And some random muslim in another country doesn’t have the ability to incorporate wisdom in what they deem worthy from their text?”

            TC: You mean the text plagiarized from Judean holy works?
            Everything else seems to be either the voicings of a man bent on conquering the Arabian peninsula and eventually all of the world or twisted pagan beliefs taken from older religions!*tsssssssssss* Thats my barrel cooling off.Sorry had to take that shot! 🙂

          • Oh appeal to emotion! I invoke thee! *Whoosh*

            Cmon USW we both know I don’t believe you uneducated.

  13. gmanfortruth says:

    Some interesting prices changes on Wall Street today:

    Gold COMEX 1,406.90 +18.30 +1.32% 2/21/2011 12:48:00 PM

    Crude oil NYMEX 91.42 +5.22 +6.06% 2/21/2011 12:49:00 PM

    Silver COMEX 32.30 +0.95 +2.94% 2/18/2011 1:15:00 PM

  14. Question for D13.
    Over the last several months there has been rumors floating around the blogs that the ATF and the DOJ were allowing known gun runners to straw purchase firearms in the southwest to take to Mexico for the drug dealers in order to pad their gun running stats. Rumor has it that the agent killed this past December was killed with one of these guns. It would seem that this story is picking up a little steam with an article last week in the Washington Times. Do you know anything about “Project Gunwalker” and can you comment on the rumors as you always seem to be in the know on border issues?

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/14/sen-grassley-probes-border-agent-slaying/

    • @ Bama Dad………….first of all…be VERY LEERY of the Washington Post….it has been my experience that it never gets anything correct. However, to your question.

      I do have knowledge of the Justice Department allowing straw purchases to done under the guise that they wish to track them to the bigger fish. One thing this article does not say, is that the majority of the guns that are sold are not sold from reputable and registered gun shops or shows….unless they are part of a sting. The Justice Department has been well aware of bogus and clandestine black market outlets and it lets them exist.

      These clandestine outlets are mainly in Arizona. (We recently discovered on in Texas and eliminated it with prejudice). Also, the majority of the guns sold are coming across from third party dealers in Mexico…to be sold BACK to Mexico. An AK47 is not a US weapon. The AK 47’s that we are finding are Russian made and sold to middle men. We have also captured French, English, Israli, Chinese, Italian, and Iranian made weapons and explosives. The majority of these weapons are coming through MExican ports and sold to third party in the US an resold to the Mexican criminals.

      We just uncovered a huge drug and gun smuggling operation being run by a Hezbollah cell operating in Juarez, Mexico across from El Paso…….There is evidence of another Hezbollah cell operating in the Arizona area in conjunction and partnership with the Cartels. It is amazing that this is not reported in the MSM.

      This new Justice Department is dangerous and it is turning a blind eye to atrocities on the border. I say new, because this branch of the Justice department was organized and directed under the Obama administration. Everyone down here knows this. This Justice Department is not an existing product of the Bush administration at all….everyone knows this as well. Everything has changed and there is more secrecy than ever before and they by pass local and State autorities. Right now in Texas, we do not work with them or report to them. We refuse to do so. We do not take them on raids or inform them of anything. They are not part of our patroling nor are they linked to our communications system and this is done on purpose. They are not to be trusted in the least.

      This Senator, unfortunately, will get nowhere on his investigation. The Obama administration will shut him out and they will not reply to subpoenas at all under the National Security issues they just extended under the Patriot Act.

      Arizona would do good to take a page from us…..do not cooperate with the Justice Department…it will get you killed. I do not know about this Project Gunwalker but I do know someone who would….I will try to get information for you and report it.

      In closing, the Justice Department agents also know not to run clandestine operations on the Texas border. We shoot. We are past waiting for the federal Government to do its job and have taken our own border issues ourselves. So, they are pretty much staying away. We do not see many of them any longer.

      Side Note: Interesting that the Justice Department tried to impose some federal law on the ranchers here about being armed and instituting what was termed “vigilante” justice and tried to confiscate some guns….there was a standoff between some ranchers and Justice Department agents….no shots were fired but no guns were confiscated…..Wonder why this did not make the news. They have left the State and hopefully will not be back….it is unfortunate that this has denegrated into the old west days…..but so be it. A lot of innocents are going to get caught in the fallout and that is a tragedy but cannot be avoided.

      • PS…other than the article, I do not know of any link to gun selling and the weapon used to kill the US agent. I will try to find out about that as well. Did I answer your questions?

        • I too do not like the Post but it was the first paper to say something about this subject other than stories running around the Blogs. If the ATF and DOJ are letting straw purchases proceed to catch bigger fish I can abide by that BUT if they are doing it to pad their gun stats then I have a BIG problem with that. Please keep an ear to the ground about this as I have concerns because the MSM would never report on bogus gun stats as they worship gun control.

      • …it is unfortunate that this has denegrated into the old west days…

        Degenerated? At least in the old west a person could stand and defend themselves, their family, property, life, liberty and freedom as a member of society. One didn’t have to, nor was one forced to, rely on the government and it’s police force. So, this is necessarily a bad thing how?

        Some may bring up the specter of unrestrained violence – yet that is more myth than reality IMHO.

        • A good gracious morning to you, Plainly…..yes, it is sad but it is necessary and we are glad to do it. I know there are some that will laugh at me when I say we do not cooperate with Feds.. but we do not. There is no reason. That s why the majority of the drug traffic is moving Westerly. Arizona needs to not worry about appearances or political correctness and start shooting. Pretty simple actually. Even in war torn Juarez across from El Paso, the cartels have finally decided to move a little more West and have created a large corridor to Las Cruces, NM staying out of Texas. Our plan of organizing the farmers and ranchers into an effective blocking force is working well. The “Coyotes” (human smugglers) are being shot on sight by ranchers and farmers without warning. The long stretches of coast line that we have is now being patrolled and cartel drug mini subs are being spotted. Texas is funding its Civil Air Patrol and volunteers are flying the coast lines helping spot boats and things that are not in “normal” waters. If the Coast Guard does not respond, then the mini sub or speed boat is tracked and GPS coordinates are sent to the ground forces or rancher that has coast line and a presence is shown. When a presence is seen, they do not land. These little “blockade” runners as we call them are not designed for rougher seas and when forced away from the coast into larger swells…they sink really well. The sharks do the rest. THe one p[roblem we have now is night patrolling because most civilian pilots are not trained in infra red detection…however, the blockade runners are not very sophisticated either and have no sonar or underwater detection equipment and often run aground on the numerous sandbars when operating at night.

          We do this without Federal money nor supervision and Obama cannot stop us. If he tries, we will make sure it hits headlines. He has an election year coming up. The US Attorney General is gutless to people who stand up to him…and JAnet Napolitano…well…..need I say more.

          • D13, thanks for the update.

            I just want to say that when residents and citizens of a state or locality are encourage to protect and defend themselves it is a good day and you, and the men and women working in doing the same should never be “sad” that you are doing so.

            We need to return to the idea that personal safety, protection of life, limb and property is the right and responsibility of the individual – government can’t protect you, it is not what government is geared for.

            If a person wishes to release that individual right and responsibility to the government, so be it. However, that should not stop another individual. States should encourage lawful defense and get restrictive laws repealed that would interfere with these type of rights.

            Sorry, off my soapbox now.

  15. Christianity vs Islam is being discussed but I see no discussion of the current problems Western cultures are having with the immigration of Muslim people into their society. They are calling it multiculturalism -but the problems are linked to the Muslim immigrants not assimilating with the rest of the culture(hope that’s the right word). Are these problems to be ignored? How should these types of problems be addressed? I strive to be fair but I do not want to be nice to the point of ignoring an obvious problem.

    • There is a long history of this in the US without the broad-reaching ill effects you fear. There were localized issues and conflicts: Turf wars in chinatown or in the Irish slums of New York. Clashes between pockets of minicultures that were not “fully assimilated”. Assimilation is not a smooth operation all the time. People are herd animals, birds of a feather flock together and all that. It stands to reason that cultures would begin as pockets that assimilate over time. At the point of immigration, the culture of an individual has not had time to change. Thus, it seeks like-minded people. This is not a long-term danger, nor a long-term condition. Even if it takes a generation, assimilation will happen.

      Do not be impatient. If you try to force assimilation, or block immigration to avoid the need for it, you will cause more problems than you fix. In fact, you will cause the very problems you fear.

    • I look at this type of issue of assimilation in this way – what I ask of immigrants is that they, like us, must respect and live within the legal structures of the society they have joined.

      In the case of Muslims, as with Christians as well, they may practice any aspect of their religion that does not violate the legal structures of our society. Honor killings or another aspects of their religion would be unacceptable under our laws.

      That’s about all any of us could/should demand of immigrants or citizens of our societies IMHO.

      • Both those answers make sense-but I have a very adverse reaction to there being pockets of a Western society that treats woman as second class citizens-I also see it as the majority of the immigrants being trapped and mistreated by a minority of extremists, which our laws will not protect until or unless they do something bad enough to get caught. So the answers so far have been realistic but far from satisfying. I find the answer with time, maybe generations, the unfairness will stop a possibility, but somewhat lacking as a plan.

        • I would point out that even among long established segments of our society and nation we still have segments that continue to view women as second-class citizens, some based on long standing cultural history or religious beliefs (I’m thinking sects like the Amish for example – among many others).

          I think – correct me if I am wrong Jon – he is speaking to the belief systems changing among the Muslims after continual exposure to the laws and customs of American culture. Though there is no guarantee those beliefs will change – as my first paragraph tries to show.

          • Since in Amish society since there is a clear patriarchy in which gender roles are strictly defined you feel that women are viewed as second class citizens?
            The men have their role.The women have theirs.
            How is a woman viewed as second class?
            Have I missed some breaking news or something?

            • ::sigh::

              So, what would you call their restricted rights within their community?

              I will agree their status level is by their voluntary acceptance of their faith and community doctrines (at least after they are no longer children) – yet never the less they hold not the same rights, stature or authority at the men do.

          • My thoughts exactly. There are those who seem “assimilated” that secretly abuse women. There are sects which, like the example you used of the Amish, women have a defined role of subservience. They may have influence, but they do not have authority. There are sects which are the opposite as well. I have known men to be abused in this country, in fact it is more prevelant than in a lot of other cultures, a result of an overreaction to patriarchal abuses in our past, and to some extent, our present.

            I was speaking to the influence of the rest of the culture on the pockets of culture. A free society is a contagious one. The downfall of that influence, and of freedom itself, is always fear. Fear of those who are different. Fear of what could happen. Fear of the individual incident. A healthy concern is fine, I suppose, but there is far too much of an attitude of prevention of anything bad, even those things which are remote possibilities. People who support the retarded levels of airline security are not thinking of national security. They are fearful of being one of the few who suffer harm at the hand of terrorists or crazies or mechanical failure. Those same people will drive their cars without concern because they have the illusion of control and the lack of sensationalism in the media. They are not fearless of it, they are simply unaware.

            Those who value security above freedom deserve neither and will lose both.

    • V.H.

      The same thing was said about the Chinese – thus, “China Towns” appeared in most cities.

      The same thing was said about the Irish…

      The same thing was said about the Catholics…

      The same thing is being said about the Mexicans….

      It is the same thing being said over and over again.

      It is a fear of another culture due to ignorance.

      Do not fall into that trap.

      • Okay BF-I do not wish to fall into a trap-so tell me where my concerns are wrong-when they are based on the problems that are currently happening in our world.

        Just a question-I read somewhere that the mosque is used as a court system-is this true.

        • The issues you speak of and fear are happening in places that are not free. Places that are failing. Structure and religion are tempting in those places.

          Granted, we are getting close to that here. We are failing and we are no longer free. Could that increase the risk of such issues happening here? Absolutely. Is restriction of immigration or control of certain immigrants or subculture the solution? NO! That is a good way to speed our way down the path to failure and tyranny.

          If you have fear, know that freedom is the solution, NOT control. Never control. What you fear is a result, not of a certain religious culture, but because of a lack of freedom and communication.

    • VH….I am writing an article on multi culturalism and its effects both good and bad. I will be finished with it in about 2 days and post for USW to read. I have done a lot of research on this and how it links to the failed policies of affirmative action, quotas, busing, etc in the US….and how the European model is failing and why.

      I will have the statistics and links all ready for you to read.

  16. USW says “those who practice Islam are as individual and unique as any other group on earth.”

    Unique? As in a “religion” that states that a mans wife is his “property”(like in SLAVE)? As in Shariah law that DEMANDS the killing of a woman who does not strictly adhere to its dictates?

    Okay, so I am one of “those people” if you will, that has had a growing distrust of Islam and its dictates since the mid 1960’s when I was first briefed about them. I have also had a growing distrust of Communism for about the same length of time.

    Until the Islamic practitioners throw out Shariah law and decide to rise up and get rid of all those who would want to kill all of us who do not follow their religious cult, I will remain one of “those people” who do not believe Islam and its followers are anything but a murderous cult disguised as a phony religion!

    • So I ask what you suggest be done about and/or with all the Muslims in the United States?

      Deport them? Ban their religion as subversive to the United States of America? jail them? Internment camps maybe? Force them to sign pledges not to practice Islam, or to declare Islam a hostile and violent religious practice?

      Serious, what do you suggest we do with this “murderous cult disguised as a phony religion?” If they’re so danged dangerous tell us how we protect America from these terrorists/subversives/homicidal society destroyers you fear?

      • Good questions PS.
        I would never want to live in an Islamic state so I have often asked myself why they would want to live here.
        They are looking to better themselves here in the land of freedom and yet still refuse their own family members that freedom?
        They are willing to better themselves by using the infidels money yet not willing to assimilate into our culture?
        Makes no sense, or does it?

        • gmanfortruth says:

          TC,

          Some questions if I may. TC Said: “They are looking to better themselves here in the land of freedom and yet still refuse their own family members that freedom?

          G says: So why exactly is that your business or concern? The Amish have managed to live in our society without any problems, and you don’t want to know their religion.

          TC says: “They are willing to better themselves by using the infidels money yet not willing to assimilate into our culture?”

          G says: I know many devout Muslims who have assimilated just fine. I’ve worked directly with them on numorous occasions. Where is this info coming from?

          • I’m personally looking at what is going on in European countries and the effect that large numbers of Muslim immigration has had on their society. From my reading a big part of the problem is that they are not only not assimilating which leads to mistreatment of people but they are trying to change the culture its self by pushing Sharia Law.So anyone coming to a mostly free society and pushing Sharia-needs to explain exactly what they mean by this because the only definition I have of Sharia is horrifying. They also question whether or not they have allowed too large of a number of immigrants at one time-who come from such a different culture.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              V.H., Sharia law will never fly in the US. We are a Constitutional Republic (at least if we can keep Obama from changing us any further). I also think that all this pushing of Sharia is a fantasy made up by politicians and pushed to some extent by the BS media. It’s fear mongering. Without an enemy, as we have managed to have my whole lifetime, the govt. can’t continue to suck our wealth from us to “protect us”. Our biggest problem is the one nobody is talking about, our government and the Predator Class that are pulling the strings. A few thousand Muslims in our country are not a concern, they have no power.

              • A few thousand Mexicans were not a concern at one time either…now their drain on our social programs is tremendous.

              • I do not accept “it cannot happen here” Many things are happening here, I never believed would happen. I also am not concerned about the fact that we have followers of Islam in this country. I am looking at the future and trying to decide how we should handle immigration from cultures that follow sharia Law. I am also looking at the times we have been told we cannot burn the Koran, post cartoons are anything else that offends the followers of Islam. Maybe it is the extremists that are doing all these things but they are already effecting our freedoms and seem to be creating more extremists in European countries. I think we all know that it does not take a majority to take away our freedoms. So I prescribe talking about the possible consequences, not with fear or hate but with common sense and respect for our long standing value of accepting all people to this country-I’m just not quite sure what is sensible caution-which is why I keep bringing it up.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                TC, Apples and oranges. Mexicans come here poor. Muslims come here to buy convenient stores. 😆

                V.H., My dear, here is where you are being misled.

                VH said: Maybe it is the extremists that are doing all these things but they are already effecting our freedoms …

                They, the extremists have nothing to do with our freedom. The govt is affecting our freedom!!!! In the years since 9-11, more people have been killed by bee stings in this country than by terrorists. Terrorists have killed no US citizens on US soil since then. Now, you might say, what about the underwear bomber. My answer, which is verifyable, The US State Dept admitted to putting the underwear bomber on the plane with no passport, and it was witnessed by US citizens. Maybe you should rethink who the real terrorists are!!

              • G -I have not problem identifying our governments downside. 🙂

                Sharia Law

                In several other EU countries, such as Sweden,[26] the United Kingdom,[27] and the Netherlands, Muslim groups had asked to apply Islamic inheritance, marriage and divorce laws. Such requests have brought up considerable controversy in those countries. In 2010 a United states diplomatic leak leaked by Wikileaks showed that a survey conducted by the UK Center for Social Cohesion on 600 muslim students at 30 universtities showed that 32 % supported murder in the name of Islam and that 40% want Sharia law in the United Kingdom.[28]

                In 2004 Europe’s first bank to offer Sharia compliant financial services, the Islamic Bank of Britain, opened its doors in Britain.[29] Other countries which have Islamic banking institutions are Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina,[30] Denmark, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland and Ireland.[31]
                [edit] Tribunal courts

                In the United Kingdom there exist five sharia courts in England, in London, Manchester, Bradford, Birmingham and Nuneaton, operating under the 1996 Arbitration Act. While legal Muslim tribunal courts had been starting in August 2007, the first official sharia court was opened in September 2008.[32] By June 2009 the Daily Mail reported that there were 85 sharia tribunals operating in Britain. This figure was based on a report by academic and Islamic specialist Denis MacEoin [33] published by Civitas, the Institute for Civil Society. Rulings include:[34][35]

                * “that no Muslim woman may marry a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam and that any children of a woman who does should be taken from her until she marries a Muslim”.
                * approval of “polygamous marriage”
                * “a male child belongs to the father after the age of seven, regardless of circumstances”.

                The Civitas report criticised sharia law, claiming sharia courts operating in Britain may be handing down rulings that are inappropriate because they are linked to elements in Islamic law that are seriously out of step with trends in Western legislation that derive from the values of the Enlightenment and are inherent in modern codes of human rights. Civitas says sharia rulings contain great potential for controversy and may involve acts contrary to UK legal norms and human rights legislation. In October 2008 the House of Lords ruled that sharia was incompatible with human rights when a Lebanese woman sought asylum in the UK because, if she had been sent back to Lebanon, she would have been ordered to hand over her son to a violently abusive husband.[36]

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

              • V.H. My response to any request by Muslims to incorporate any of their Sharia laws into US legal concepts would only be to look at the exact law or practice they desire incorporated and determine whether or not it abridges established laws or rights of our society.

                It’s really all we can do. We’re in a “no harm, no foul” kind of situation until we encounter their attempts to subvert our societal laws with Sharia.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                VH, Europe has been assbackwards forever! Think this way, do you think that 70+ million freedom loving gun owners are going to play with their Sharia Bullshit?

            • V.H.

              I will only add that you need to consider the difference between European culture and American culture when evaluating the impacts of the large Muslim migration that these stories reference.

              At the same time, arguments that problems with assimilating Swedes, Irish, Italians, etc are the same as that with “Muslims” are themselves false. Oranges and apples for sure. Although just as with apples and oranges (both fruit) there are some similarities.

              • I am of the opinion that the culture of Europe is very quickly coming to America. So I am a little lost on naming what these differences are. Perhaps we can discuss these differences and why they will have a different effect.

              • One other thing to understand is that part of your concern stems from the result of democracy. Democracy, rule of the majority, is not freedom. There must be unwaivering constitutional restrictions in place, regardless of the will of the people. If a majority of muslims was here in the US, it would be our constitution that would protect us, and to a lesser extent, our republic. The more weak the constitution becomes and the more the lie of full democracy is sold, the more vulnerable we become to what you are fearing.

                This is why a strong constitution is the only chance for the success of freedom, with the possible exception of BF’s form of anarchy. Our constitution has flaws, but if it was followed we would not have to fear Sharia law. The reason the protestant groups in this country did not maintain control is because of the constitution. In many places, there were plenty of votes to have strict moral legal codes, some of which involved cruel and unusual punishments and death for offenses that were minor, made-up, or only offensive to a strict religious person.

                You have reason to be fearful, I do not deny the need for concern. I offer a solution. Make certain we have freedom. Make certain the constitution is followed regardless of popular opinion. That is the solution to a religious takeover of any form. It is the only way to truly combat what you fear.

                It is not a guarantee of safety. Freedom comes with risk and opportunity. It also comes with great influence and power for the individual. It must be protected. Its greatest enemies are fear and complacency. A combination of good men doing nothing and the rest reacting in fear, and a desire to remove risk. If you remove risk, you remove freedom and opportunity. The three are inseperably entwined.

        • Maybe they simply want what some of the earliest settlers to America want – the freedom to peacefully practice their religious beliefs?

          No – leave out the tenets of their religion. You just asked why they may want to be here.

          Now, to your thinking – are there any other groups in the United States who have declined to assimilate into our culture?

    • Have you guys ever read the Old Testament? The things people were to be stoned to death for? Do Christians follow this? Not generally. Do they still include it in their Bible? Yes. Do they still follow SOME things from the Old Testament? Yes. So who decides what is ok?

      You cannot just read the Koran and know what a religion is all about. If a person with no teaching or understanding of Christianity read the whole Bible, they would be horrified at the Old Testament, and at parts of the new, and confused at the differences, and why some is ok and some is not.

      Is Shariah law a problem? Yes, so is Old Jewish law. Neither could be practiced here without violating our laws and constitutional rights.

      Now, here is another question. What of those women who truly believe in Shariah law? Do they have no right to do this? I do not think they should be able to be killed by another, but if they take on the role of subservience, that is their choice. If they are forced into it, then that is NOT ok. If they are ignorant of freedom, then that is what they need to see. What better way than to welcome them to a free land?

      Now if only we had one to welcome them to.

  17. PapaDawg, ever hear of the Crusades? There isn’t a religion known to man that is without stain.

    I think the point is not all Muslims are okay with extremists within their ranks … just as not all communists seek to take over the world (or your personal freedom) … just like … the list goes on and on.

    I was one who questioned why moderate Arabs didn’t at least help to get rid of violent radicals (because I could care less about non-violent radicals) … but USW is right (checking my pulse here), here they are. And although a more radical or anti-US/Israel group may come to power (i.e., Hezbollah, etc. after elections), the bottom line is the people now know how to bring about change.

  18. For Anita … your boyfriend is back!

    The other one, the Doc.

    http://temporaryknucksline.blogspot.com/2011/02/le-doc-oy-vey.html

  19. The end of a matter is better than its beginning so patience of spirit is better than being disdainfully proud of spirit and never truly learning from lifes ordeals.
    I believe if one can incorporate the following spititual and mental traits into ones personality you will see your life having a purpose and that others will gravitate and be drawn towards you.These are nine traits that are said to be infused in a person through the holy spirit by accepting the grace of God.Whether you believe in a God or not their is no disputing the positive outcome of having these.

    Love
    Joy
    Peace
    Patience
    Kindness
    Goodness
    Faithfulness
    Gentleness
    Self-control

    As you learn to develop these into your every-day life you will see negative behavior fade away from your life.It becomes easier and easier to keep negative behavior from influencing your decisions in life. Behavior not deemed natural to nature or Natures God becomes easy to identify.

    I believe every human on this planet could do without unhappiness, immorality, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, disputes and dissension.Traits that seem self evident in those that do not incorporate the above mentioned positive traits.

    All human knowledge is learned from the very first memory we have until the last breath we take.We are not born being philosophers, doctors or scientists.
    Since knowledge does indeed grow exponentially. The more you know, the greater your ability to learn, the faster you expand your knowledge base.
    So, take this metaphor to heart my friends.

    Time is like a river…and books are boats. Many books will start down that river, only to be wrecked and lost beyond recall in its sands.A very few, endure the testings of time and live to bless or curse the ages following.Even though they endured the test of time and have survived unto today they are still not in the best of shape.Some have rotted and others fallen apart. Ones job is to find and understand these books and why they are in the condition they are in and what wisdom/knowledge contained within their construction allowed them to survive and whether that wisdon or knowledge is beneficial.It is not an easy process but I promise you it is very rewarding.

  20. To those who have answered my above post with some measure of disdain;

    Way back in the early 1930’s Germany, a former German soldier once told me, “I was a teacher back then when Hitler came to power, and I was neutral. So when they came for the Jews, I said nothing because they weren’t bothering me. I remained neutral as they burned many books, because those were not the books that I taught from. When they came for the Catholics, I said nothing because I was not a Catholic. I remained neutral. But when they came for me, because I refused to join the NAZI party, I had no one to ask for help, because I had not helped anyone else . . . ”

    All this talk about how benign and peaceful Islam is really reminds me of those words from that old German.

    Who will you ask for help when Islam comes to you demanding that you either submit or die?

    • I’m well aware of the little story you’ve repeated above. Yet, it does nothing to tell us what an enlightened person such as yourself would have us do to prevent Islamics from ever being at the point where they can demand we submit or die?

      So, my question to you still stands – and unanswered. What do you proposed to do with the Islam practicing Muslims already in the USA?

      • “what an enlightened person such as yourself would have us do to prevent Islamics from ever being at the point where they can demand we submit or die?”

        Enlightened? No. However, unless your head has been stuck in the sand somewhere and you have absolutely no knowledge of just what has been going on in this world since Jimmy Carter gave Iran to the Ayatollah Khomeni (sp), I really hate to be the one to inform you that this world is already at the point where Islam is stating that we submit or die!

    • The disdain is because you seem to be going after the Muslims like Hitler did the Jews. Hitler didn’t start with ovens and slaughter.
      “Keep them out”
      “they are a threat”
      “They are dangerous”
      “They are too numerous and they are not one of us”
      THAT is how it starts. Your story is an important one. Make sure you are applying it correctly.

      We are a free people. We welcome those seeking freedom. If they seek it, we should welcome them. If they seek to control us, we do not allow it. If “they” applies to our government more than the muslims, and it currently most certianly does, then we MUST not allow it.

      Freedom will beat religious extremism. It will beat those who seek to control. If, however, we give it up to find the easier, less risky path, then we have already lost. I do not care if the tyrant is a Muslim preaching Sharia law, or a Socialist preaching marxism, or a control freak in government telling me what sort of lightbulg I have to use and what I am allowed to eat, or a Christian saying I have to put the Bible into law, or an Atheist saying that I cannot put a cross in my yard and preach my beliefs on the street corner. It does not matter who is taking my freedom, the problem is that they are taking it.

      And if it is someone saying we should take freedom from someone else, just because it is not me, because they fear that other someone, then they are just as much an enemy of freedom as the people they claim to be a danger.

      To hell with Sharia law, I will not allow it here. To hell with environmental law, I will not allow it here. To hell with immigration law, I will not allow it here. My fear will not rule me, it will not be allowed to take freedom from me or my fellowman, no matter his creed.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Jon says: “To hell with Sharia law, I will not allow it here. To hell with environmental law, I will not allow it here. To hell with immigration law, I will not allow it here. My fear will not rule me, it will not be allowed to take freedom from me or my fellowman, no matter his creed.

        That’s two of us, well said Sir!

      • Okay Jon . . . Then if you have a wife, you had better get her a Burkha and learn to speak Mexican because the Mexican drug cartels have allied themselves with Hezbollah to help them fight to get their drugs across our southern border.

        In the not so far future, if things keep going like you want them to – open borders, etc. – this country will cease to exist, and your so-called freedom along with it!

        I choose to fight for my country, just like I have in the not so distant past.

        • I choose to fight for my country too, the one that IS in the distant past. The free one. Fighting for freedom is not done by removing it. I will fight the Mexican cartels and the pushers of Sharia law and keep them from taking over. I will also fight those who want to run our lives, the Nanny Staters. And, I will fight those who think that the only way to save our freedom is to lock us all down. That is the typical conservative contradiction. They yell freedom but then support stuff like the Patriot Act. Loss of freedom is a loss of freedom, it doesnt matter which freedom you lose.

          I appreciate that you have fought for this country and will again. I will too. And since I have no wife, I have no fear or anything to lose that might shake my resolve or have me resort to control in a misguided attempt to hang on to freedom.

  21. gmanfortruth says:

    Who will you ask for help when Islam comes to you demanding that you either submit or die?

    In these parts, we will pray and recieve, rain of lead.

  22. G

    I think you’re being a little condecending to V. We do need to worry about the extremist just as much as we need to worry about our own government. But they are two separate problems.

    The reason is the USA is too PC. Look at what just one person can do to our ability to say “under God” in the Pledge. One person, only on, started all that.

    Look what Code Pink was able to pull off in the Church.

    Look what this one Imam, Choudrey, is doing. He’s got a protest staged in DC, the whole premise being to bring Sharia to the US.

    And don’t forget the Ft Hood bomber. He is an extremist who killed on American soil.

    The deal is that we, as citizens, need to stand up to extremist. Leave their religions out of it.

    • anita, in the context of the question you can’t leave religion out of it. Sharia, which is being discussed is a part of Islam.

      The problems I see is what (further) freedoms are we as a society willing to give up to take preventative actions against Sharia, Islam, or Muslim extremism in the United States?

      All I believe we can do is confront each situation as it arises.

      • This is a very valid point-probably why I can’t define what is reasonable caution. Which is why I keep looking at the long needed debate on immigration as the possible way to be cautious without overstepping common sense and the principals of freedom.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          V.H.

          If you would like to write a guest article on immigration for SUFA, I’ll gladly help you, and if you’d like, co-author?

          • No 🙂 but thank you for the offer. I like to talk but writing an official article would make my head explode because every word would have to be perfect. Besides I see a danger but I do not feel I have the information or the expertise to write immigration policy.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Would you be willing to share your concerns and ideas with me, vie e-mail? I’ll do all the research and write everything, as well as put your concerns and ideas in a way that helps produce debate, in a good way of course.

              • G, I have put my concerns on this blog-I do not have any concrete ideas about how this should be handled through immigration-other than limiting the number of immigrants from countries that support Sharia Law by time. But feel free to use anything I have written. And USW is free to give you my e-mail if you want to ask me a question. 🙂

      • Plainlyspoken:”All I believe we can do is confront each situation as it arises.”

        TC:Well we certainly have done a horrible job of that.

        • TC:Well we certainly have done a horrible job of that.

          PS: Is that a personal opinion or do you have some examples you could post? Also, maybe you would offer your suggestions as to actions to take as preventative measures that would satisfy you that Sharia would be no threat to this country?

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Anita, If I’m being condecending towards V, it is unintended, and if taken that way I apologize to her.

      PC: Screw PC, just stop being timid and say what you feel, I do!

      You said: The deal is that we, as citizens, need to stand up to extremist. Leave their religions out of it.

      Here’s the problem with this. Extremists don’t care about rational thinking. They are determined. Outside of vigilantyism, how would the citizens stand up?

    • Thanks Anita-I really appreciate your concern! But G-he’s my friend-I take his words on face value with the knowledge that he would not condescend to me-if he thinks I’m being nuts-he’ll just say so 🙂 🙂

      • I know V. I’m not saying G is being rude but I don’t think he’s giving you credit for being concerned about Sharia. It’s too easy anymore to sneak things through anymore. Look how easily Michael Nadeau (sp) got his “under God” BS by us. We can’t just keep letting small segments of “whatever their beef is” run things as though they are an overwhelming majority. Does that make sense?

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Good call on the “under God” issue. THis however, is was about public schools, run by local governments. Here’s the 1st Amendment on that subject: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…..

          Congress did not make it law that it must be said or not said. The SCOTOS ruling on this is actually “prohibiting the free exercise thereof…..”. But the issue and ruling, based on separation of church and state, overstepped, IMHO. It was not an act of Congress that “under God” must be said, it is simply a historical part of our nation.

        • Actually, I’ve noticed that some things don’t even have to be law-in order to take away our freedoms. Guy who burned the Koran -lost his job. Don’t know whether he got it back or not. The nutty preacher who started the whole thing-was attacked in all types of ways-even lost his insurance I think. No law-just societal norms doing there thing. Societal norms that make me nervous.

          • I understand what you are saying. But, were the people or organizations behind those actions acting within their rights in their responses towards the individuals, even if it was societal norms that brought forth the actions?

            If not, or if that is disputable, then the victims have actionable cases in the courts. Of course whether they win those cases is a totally different issue.

            Is any attempt to force Sharia on us any different in that we would turn to the legal processes to stop or reverse the attempts?

            • All I know is that we have socialist who are getting their foot in the door through our laws and our societal norms to change our culture. Now I see extremist Islamist getting their foot in the door through ours and Europe’s laws and societal norms. And I see it as a Big Problem. Our court systems and respect for individual rights are becoming very questionable in my eyes.

            • The way our courts and judges interpret things anymore, or get bribed, or threatened, we need to worry about everything that makes its way into a courtroom. Never know how its going to go.

              • Ah,now we’re onto a different aspect entirely.

                If we conclude that the courts have gone off track for our Republic, and it’s Constitution, then we have to discuss options for reform.

                There are only a couple of reform paths I can think of really.

              • Well, list them 🙂 but I will have to get back to this tomorrow-started the day out by throwing up-that was really to much information-wasn’t it 🙂 Anyway it is time to go sit in a more comfortable chair and watch a little TV. See you guys tomorrow.

              • Good luck with that! There’s an idea for a guest article.

  23. gmanfortruth says:

    My SUFA friends. When you find the debate slow and would like some interesting reading, I just posted an article titled “The Power of the OATH” . I think my fellow vets will like this, but non-vets will equally like it!

    http://gmanfortruth.wordpress.com/

  24. Looks like the Muslim Bros. did not get the memo on civility in political discourse. The but out a contract (fatwa) on Kadafi.

  25. Bonnie Carniello says:

    A while back, I watched a Sunday morning program with Christiane Amanpour on ABC. She had the Imam’s wife whose husband wants to build next to the 911 site in NY. It appears that they are trying to have Shariah law be accepted in the US. She said that the building would be open to all people, but I don’t know who is buying that one. I’m not sure Obama thinks it’s a problem. The families and loved ones of the fallen sure think its a problem! I was totally unaware that there are mosques everywhere all over the US. Since they consider we are infidels, we have no value to them except to destroy us and for 72 virgins with the virility of 100 men, a lot of men could be convinced to kill! Just imagine if there are 100,000 like the psychologist who shot up the base in Texas, the harm that could be done. If they can’t destroy Americans by the thousands, they may be OK with a crowd at a time. If the powers to be are stupid enough to allow them to have Shariah law here, they could use it against Americans! Who knows how many have made friends here to simply infiltrate and learn how our society functions. Anyone ever heard of a spy from other countries? Be afraid! Be very afraid and while we’re at it, how about voting a President in who is not pro-Muslim in 2012 and one is is proud of America and will not apologize to other countries for our behavior! We could correct the budget by eliminating giving monies to other countries since we are borrowing 41 cents of every dollar we spend!

    USWeapon, I was unaware of your surgery. I pray God it went well and you are healed or healing well. I will pray to the God who has kept you alive for all of your life in many unsafe times that he will continue to keep you in his care!

    Bonnie

  26. Note to Israel: Shut up about the Iranian Warships and the Suez Canal….it is quite simple….if they encroach upon Israeli waters….sink them. No questions….no warnings…..gun em down and do not rescue survivors. Ilike the alk soflty and carry the big stick. Do not care about world condemnation, the UN will do nothing and you are protecting your coastlines…..forget about all this diplomacy bullshit and sink em. THank you and have a nice day.

  27. Sorry about bringing up the items of the weekend but I finally finished reading all this stuff about the teachers and stuff.

    1. It is not about the children. The teachers could care less.
    2. To the governor: Why are you suspending the collective bargaining rights? The National LAbor Relations Acts works in your favor this time. Sit down at the table, look em in the eye and simply say…we are broke. What can you give me to help. As long as you are at the table negotiating (and no, it is NOt an unfair practice to not agree) you defang this issue. Let the teachers do their stupid stuff on TV…the public is not buying it. But, go back to the table and forget this suspension crap.
    3. By bargaining and you are out of money, you can get the strike classed as an economic strike. You have the right to hire permanent replacements if there is an impasse in an economic issue and all other issues are settled.
    4. The checkoff is the unions power. Do not agree to it. That is not a mandatory bargaining issue. Make the union collect its own money. You want to break the union? That is the way to do it and it works well.

    Thank you and have a nice day.

    • Oh..side note to the Gov: Raising taxes to cover the unions demand is no different than demanding a company raise prices to cover a union demand. Revenues are not a bargaining issue either. If the decision is made to not raise revenues (ie: Taxes), the union must bargain with what is left. (And the fact that you lowered the taxes is a non issue if it was determined that lowering taxes was necessary to keep some level of income stream instead of losing it to a neighboring state). Do not fall for that mantra.

  28. At USW…….: This is why people are afraid.

    Imam Anjem Chauday has applied for a permit to march out side the white house on March 3 this year. He is protesting for the inclusion of Sharia Law under the constitution of the United States. (He cited the first amendment). His belief is that ” Sharia is the ONLY law for the world”. He also quoted ( I wrote it down as he was speaking ) ” Democracy and freedom are NOT part of Sharia and to have order in society Sharia must control.” He went on further to state… ” Islam does does not believe in interfaith relationships. There is only one religion and that is Islam.” He closed his interview by sayong, ” Islam is not confined to mosques. It is to be instituted in government, schools, and the workplace.”

    There are no links…this was just on Fox news and again in CNN….an interview. I am sure you can find it.

    Want to know why people do not understand? It is this type of forum that we hear. We do not hear from the non violent Muslim. THAT is why people are afraid.

    • I agree D13. I read throughout the day yesterday, but did not comment. I certainly see the concerns that VH brought up and have the same concerns myself. I believe that US was speaking mainly of the peaceful Muslims, and that they should not be lumped in with all of the extremists, but until the peacful Muslims begin to speak up in larger numbers, this uncertain feeling will prevail.

      • I actually understand why moderate Muslims don’t speak up-there are people who have written cartoons and books who have been killed or had to go into hiding. What I don’t understand is why-if they are leaving their home country and coming to a new, semi free countries, are they settling into small communities that are run pretty much like the country they left. Why would they want to raise their children in that environment when it is teaching them to hate the freedom of the West? Do they have no other choice? Is it just greater fear of the unknown than the known? Are do they not want to interact with non-Muslims? I know it is just one incident(so it has limited meaning) but my daughter had a friend in school who was a follower of Islam-but I never met her because she was not allowed by her parents to come to my house or my daughter to hers. She was actually told by her parents not to interact with non-Muslims at all. Of course as Jon said , with time and if she ever achieves freedom from her parents or a chosen husband, maybe she will change her views.

        • If the moderates give a wit about their image, and they are in fact the majority, to me it is imperative that they do just that. I was not trying to imply that those were your thoughts BTW…but I could see your thinking and was agreeing with it. The part about the moderate Muslims standing up was my thought…and, IF, they are the true majority, they should step up.

          • Not saying they shouldn’t-just that I understand the fear of doing so-but they could separate themselves from the extremist-to lesson their voices and power to influence their children.

    • Same here Terry. USW was pretty tough with TC so I let TC take the hits for me. 🙂 Thanks TC

    • And here, in that same story is why we should not be.
      1) He applied for a permit to march. This is a good sign for two reasons. First, we are still free enough to grant such a request. Second, much like when the nazi groups have been given such opportunities, his message will fall on deaf or disagreeing ears. It is good to put those sorts of thoughts out in the open. Our culture will resist all the more.
      2) He clearly states that Sharia law is about control and order and that freedom and democracy have not place. Therefore people will know that groups seeking so-called freedom, both here and in the middle east, that also seek Sharia law, are frauds and are not truly in support of freedom.

      This is a good thing. The sooner he marches and the more he preaches, the more open the eyes of people will be. This is not to be feared, it is to be welcomed. We need not be afraid of Sharia law, we need only to be repulsed and disgusted by it.

    • We are also concerned because, while it’s easy to say, “not in our country”, as VH as stated very well, there are things going down in this country that most of us would never have dreamed could happen.

      Let’s take the handling of Hasan, of the Ft. Hood murders, both before and after. We’ve heard of all the warning signs leading up to his murdering 14 and now, all of the reports are in and yet, not one, not even one, mentions radical Islam as a reason for these people’s death? The PC/don’t mess with Islam crowd still won’t call a spade a spade?

      I’ve learned much over the last several years about those that would like to take my freedoms away; I don’t intend to now stick my head in the sand over the intents of many of the Islam faith that are looking to do more of the same right here in the USA.

      I’m going to take the lead from Allen West: “Don’t try and blow sunshine up my butt!!!

      http://www.therightscoop.com/allen-west-to-cair-rep-dont-try-and-blow-sunshine-up-my-butt

      • I understand the cause for concern, I understand the source of fear. I am not making claim that “it could never happen here”. I am clarifying what will stop it from happening here. What will stop it is freedom. The enemies of freedom are the ones who could make us vulnerable to Sharia law, which is itself an enemy of freedom and thus an ally to any who seek power and control over others.

        I also do not claim that freedom is a magic wand or a quick solution or without risk. Freedom will save both us and those who would take away freedom if it is followed. It will not create a perfect world, it will create the best possible one. Such a world will still have abuses and inequality until such things are no longer a part of human nature. Freedom does not remove problems. It welcomes the risk of problems. But, at the same time, it provides the opportunity of great success, and of solutions to all those problems that people are at risk of having. It is potential. It is the only potential. The more freedom that is removed in the name of mitigating risk also removes at the same time the potential for individuals and for a society as a whole.

        • All the more reason to distain the eroding of our liberty and freedom. It could be with that erosion coupled with the current “threat” of sharia type issues that heighten the state of alarm.

      • Wow-I agree with what you wrote Kathy but this video -I do not like it at all. We can not become what we fear-speak the truth and call a spade a spade. But a statesman telling the man to go home(equals shut up), fighting this battle on the level of his religion, the man was defending his holy book, West should have pointed out that his religion was his business-we do believe in freedom of religion in this country, the point is the attacks against freedom and this man and his fellow citizens. I want to stand against extreme Islam and Sharia Law, not alienate a part of our society. I want to stand for freedom, not create hate for Muslim’s in general. PC has gotten to the point where truth is being denied, which is total crap-we shouldn’t be silenced but we should concentrate on the issues-not religion-this is a sensitive issue because it relates to the religion of a segment of Our society. And we need to be careful not to teach hate for Islam and Muslims,the way the extremist are teaching hate for the Jews and the West.

        • But isn’t that the point and question VH? They use “we are just a religion” when it fits their need, but more and more appear to be an idealogy that doesn’t mesh with our form of government. They use “freedom of religion” to inch their way in, we support that fully and don’t dare touch, but then once in, expand to bring about their idealogy. As a for instance, the stance that Muslim women should not be put through a patdown or asked to remove garb at security. Huh? Now don’t get me wrong, I’m against the whole pat down thing, but this group will say, it’s against our religion, we’ll run away to our PC hiding places, and they will be excused.

          So OK, maybe West wasn’t totally polite in his words – I just liked how they seem to fit what we are talking about here, “Don’t be blowing sunshine up my butt”.

          • Valid points Kathy-but the same thing happens with other religions. Should pharmacists have to sale the morning after pill if it goes against their religion-I don’t have all the answers, these issues just have to be dealt with based on freedom and whether or not it imposes on someone else’s freedom. And I cannot wholesale say that the religion is incompatible unless I can say all people who follow the Koran interpret it the same way-I can’t say that either. I can and will say that those who interpret Islam in the same way that it is defined by Sharia Law are not compatible. And I can point out that that interpretation is not compatible. It’s complicated but as someone else on here said-we have to be careful that we don’t take away our freedoms by taking away theirs. The only place I disagree with that sentiment is when it comes to immigration.

    • D-13 Stated:”Want to know why people do not understand? It is this type of forum that we hear. We do not hear from the non violent Muslim. THAT is why people are afraid.”

      TCF: Exactly. I am glad you speak in terms of non-violent vs saying moderate muslim. WTH is a moderate Muslim? A Muslim that is non-violent but still believes the same idealogy being spouted by the violent Muslim. Therefore while not participating in the violence he does not condemn it since according to his religion he must believe Mohammads words. Mohammad is the prophet after all…

  29. D13, confirmation.

    Hezbollah working with Mexican cartels
    By Adam Housley – Fox News | Published: 8:40 PM

    (HT Hot Air)As if the threat of deadly drug cartels in Mexico wasn’t enough, some of them are joining forces with Middle East terror groups.

    “Hezbollah are absolute masters at identifying existing smuggling infrastructures,” says former DEA Chief of Operations Mike Braun, adding that the group “is developing relations with those responsible for operating those smuggling operations and then forming close relations with them, so that they can move anything they have an interest into virtually anywhere in the world.” That comment comes from former DEA Chief of Operations Mike Braun. He goes on to tell me that the Middle East terror group is “rubbing shoulders” with drug cartels around the globe.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/21/hezbollah-working-with-mexican-cartels/#ixzz1EhNFVry8

    • February 21, 2011
      Exchanging Present Perils for Future Fantasies
      Jed Gladstein
      A government report was just released on U.S. border security. It concludes that our nation is in operational control of less than half of our Southern border. We know that Homeland Security Director Janet Napolitano has been touting how well Mr. Obama and his political appointees are doing at securing the United States from the illegal alien invasion. Indeed, only three weeks ago Director Napolitano declared “The Obama administration has engaged in an unprecedented effort to bring focus and intensity to Southwest border security.”

      This “unprecedented effort” consists of a $600 million request funded by Congress in the summer of 2010 to hire 1,000 new Border Patrol Agents and plug in some additional technology to replace the virtual border fence now being abandoned by the Obama Administration.

      To put this $600 Million dollar border effort in perspective, the Obama administration has just proposed spending $50 Billion dollars of our tax money on building some high-speed rail spurs in a few politically choice locations. Perhaps high-speed trains will get terrorists who slip across our southern border to their locations more quickly, but the American people may have to pay a fearful price if we allow the Obama administration to exchange present perils for future fantasies.

      http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/02/exchanging_present_perils_for.html

  30. USW,

    While I hope you are right, I am not sure the protesters are the moderates of Islam, denouncing violence. A lot depends on who takes power and what their intentions prove to be.
    It has also been noted that the protesters may not get the change they hope for(sound familiar?), but will be used to set up a strict Islamic government.

    “Contrast the prominence afforded Higazi, with the treatment of Google executive Wael Ghonim. Upheld by a fawning Western media as the putative embodiment of Egypt’s “democracy uprising,” Ghonim was forcibly barred from the platform where Qaradawi spoke in Cairo’s Tahrir Square. According to an Al-Arabiya report,

    Ghonim tried to take the stage in Tahrir, but men who appeared to be guarding Qaradawi barred him from doing so. Ghonim, who was angered by the episode, then left the square with his face hidden by an Egyptian flag.”

    February 22, 2011
    Qaradawi and The Treason of the Intellectuals
    By Andrew G. Bostom, American Thinker

    Last Friday (2/18/11) marked the triumphal return to Cairo of Muslim Brotherhood “Spiritual Guide” Yusuf al-Qaradawi. After years of exile, his public re-emergence in Egypt was sanctioned by the nation’s provisional military rulers. Qaradawi’s own words were accompanied by images and actions during his appearance which should have shattered the delusive view that the turmoil leading to President Mubarak’s resignation augured the emergence of a modern, democratic Egyptian society devoted to Western conceptions of individual liberty and equality before the law.

    Egyptian cleric Safwat Higazi can be seen prominently behind al-Qaradawi for the duration of the latter’s speech. Recently Higazi, during his Arabic-language program “Age of Glory,” broadcast on the Egyptian al-Nas satellite television network, issued an unabashed call for aggressive violent, jihad. He quoted a hadith from ‘Ali, the son-in-law of the Muslim prophet Muhammad and Islam’s fourth “Rightly Guided” caliph, in which ‘Ali tells his sons: “Go, fight, and please your grandfather [i.e. Muhammad]. Let him be pleased with you. Fighting is what pleases the prophet (peace be upon him).” Higazi also urged jihadists, graphically, when attacking non-Muslim infidels to “Strike and split the head, and cut it in half.” Equally plain are Higazi’s goals for this brutal jihadism — the re-creation of a transnational Muslim Caliphate:

    I am convinced that Islam is imminent, the caliphate is imminent. One of these days, the United States of Islam will be established. Allah willing, it will be soon. Egypt will be one state in this [United States of Islam.] Morocco and Saudi Arabia will be states as well.

    And of course the requisite accompaniment to Higazi’s jihadism would be a jihad genocide of Israeli Jews, as described in other media pronouncements the cleric has made, such as,

    “Dispatch Those Sons of Apes [Koran 2:65; 7:166] and Pigs[Koran 5:60] to the Hellfire,” and “Yes, I Am an Antisemite; If Not for the Arab Rulers, We Would Devour the Jews with Our Teeth.”

    Contrast the prominence afforded Higazi, with the treatment of Google executive Wael Ghonim. Upheld by a fawning Western media as the putative embodiment of Egypt’s “democracy uprising,” Ghonim was forcibly barred from the platform where Qaradawi spoke in Cairo’s Tahrir Square. According to an Al-Arabiya report,

    Ghonim tried to take the stage in Tahrir, but men who appeared to be guarding Qaradawi barred him from doing so. Ghonim, who was angered by the episode, then left the square with his face hidden by an Egyptian flag.

    But notwithstanding MEMRI, and my colleague Al-Mutarjim (whose translation follows), no mainstream media outlets have reported that Qaradawi himself issued a clarion call for the jihad re-conquest of Al-Aqsa mosque, i.e., Jerusalem. This pronouncement was met with thunderous applause.

    A message to our brothers in Palestine: I have hope that Almighty Allah, as I have been pleased with the victory in Egypt, that He will also please me with the conquest of the al-Aqsa Mosque, to prepare the way for me to preach in the al-Aqsa Mosque. May Allah prepare the way for us to (preach) in the al-Aqsa Mosque in safety-not in fear, not in haste. May Allah achieve this clear conquest for us. O sons of Palestine, I am confident that you will be victorious.

    The media’s egregious omission was hardly accidental. Qaradawi’s statement immediately following this deleted jihad rallying cry — about having the Egyptian Army open the Rafah border crossing into Gaza to facilitate “delivering aid to our brethren” — was widely reported. The deliberate omission of Qaradawi’s bellicose incitement to re-capture Jerusalem reflects a larger, sustained campaign by both the mainstream media, and the warped pseudo-academics whom they choose, selectively, to provide their background information. The poisonous fruit of this incestuous relationship has been a concerted effort to characterize as “pluralist, reform Islam” Qaradawi’s obscurantist, albeit mainstream Islamic Weltanschauung of Sharia (Islamic Law)-based, aggressive jihadism, and its corollary — virulent Jew, and other infidel hatred.

    John Esposito, who heads the lavishly Saudi-funded (i.e., 20 million dollars donated in 2005, according to the New York Times) Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, is the doyen of American academic apologists for jihadism. Esposito, despite being a distressingly shallow and transparent shill for the House of Saud, who nonetheless continues to proffer geostrategic “advice” on the Muslim world to the American government, opined in a fall 2003 Boston Review essay that Qaradawi embodied a, “…reformist interpretation of Islam and its relationship to democracy, pluralism and human rights.”

    Nearly a decade later, Esposito’s distorted, malignant assessment of Qaradawi has become standard fare regurgitated by both the mainstream media and the next generation of Esposito-like pseudo-academics these journalists seek out for comment. Witness the New York Times coverage of Qaradawi’s Tahrir Square oration. Consistent with the unchallenged Esposito-indoctrinated narrative, we are told that the cleric’s speech, “…struck themes of democracy and pluralism, long hallmarks of his writing and preaching.” This assertion is followed by a reiteration that “[s]cholars” — doubtless, of Esposito’s ilk — “…who have studied his work say Sheik Qaradawi has long argued that Islamic law supports the idea of a pluralistic, multiparty, civil democracy.” But then the rather witless Times reporter stumbles when he clumsily invokes his selected “academic Qaradawi expert,” Notre Dame Professor Imad Shahin. Acknowledging that Qaradawi has openly endorsed violence against both Israeli Jews, and American troops in Iraq, Shahin, unmasking his own jihadist mindset, stated, “You call it violence; I call it resistance.” Earlier at Qaradawi’s own website, Islam Online, Professor Shahin decried as the “dismantling of Islam… tearing Islam apart from within,” the suggestion that Islam’s Sharia-based “hadd” punishments might be abrogated. Shahin argued that these punishments were intrinsic and essential to Islam, concluding,

    The marginalization of certain aspects of Shari`ah can have grave consequences in the future…Should Shari`ah be twisted to suit societal behavior or should it be the guide for it?

    What are the so-called “hadd” punishments condoned by Shahin, and the “pluralistic” modernist he champions, Qaradawi? Defined by the Muslim prophet Muhammad either in the Koran, or the hadith (the canonical collections of Muhammad’s deeds and pronouncements), these draconian punishments include: (lethal) stoning for adultery; death for apostasy; death for highway robbery, when accompanied by murder of the robbery victim; for simple highway robbery, the loss of hands and feet; for simple theft, cutting off of the right hand; for “fornication,” a hundred lashes; for drinking wine, eighty lashes. Muhammad Abu Zahra (d. 1974), was a prominent member of Al-Azhar’s Academy of Islamic Research, Professor of Islamic Law at Cairo University, and prolific author. These extracts from Abu Zahra’s “Punishment in Islam,” featured in the seminal 935 pp. Proceedings of the Fourth Conference of the Academy of Islamic Research, September 1968, provide the mainstream institutional Islamic context for the contemporary views expressed by Shahin and Qaradawi:

    The hadd punishments being prescribed for the protection of society, their execution is tantamount to an act of worship and equivalent to a holy war [jihad] in the cause of Allah. To purge the community of pernicious elements is a sort of holy war to safeguard religion and morals…Hadd punishments are imposed by Allah as [a] deterrent from his prohibitions and the omission of His commandments.

    An unusually frank observation by Shadi Hamid of Brookings Institute’s Doha Center, Qatar, published in the 2/18/11 Christian Science Monitor report of Qaradawi’s speech, captured the Muslim Brotherhood “Spiritual Guide’s” appeal to the Egyptian masses.

    Qaradawi is very much in the mainstream of Egyptian society, he’s in the religious mainstream, he’s not offering something that’s particularly distinctive or radical in the context of Egypt… He’s an Islamist and he’s part of the Brotherhood school of thought, but his appeal goes beyond the Islamist spectrum, and in that sense he’s not just an Islamist figure, he’s an Egyptian figure with a national profile.

    Yet even this more honest assessment omits any of the ubiquitous concrete examples of Qaradawi’s odious vision, articulated, repeatedly in the clerics own words.

    During two recent interviews (from 2/9/06, and 9/25/08) published at the Muslim Brotherhood’s English website “IkhwanWeb,” Qaradawi elucidated his overarching beliefs and goals. He extolled the putative “moderate vision” of MB founder and paragon, Hassan al-Banna. Qaradawi lauds al-Banna’s “approach” as representing,

    …balance and integration, as it adopts a propagative educational methodology which includes the development of the Muslim individual, family, community, state, and nation, as it seeks to liberate and unite the Islamic nation.

    Qaradawi further promoted the notion that the MB govern Egypt, while expressing his personal desire to be a spiritual guide for the entire Egyptian nation, not merely the MB. He also espoused the direct political expression of Islam as articulated by the MB.

    One can be content with his role of calling for Islam if he finds that the political duties have been taken care of and that people’s needs are being met, but if this is absent then it becomes everyone’s duty to take on the political role.

    Qaradawi concludes with an ostensible call for “freedom and democracy,” but only as a vehicle for the imposition of Sharia-the standard modern era jihadist formulation, “Islamic State by the will of the people.”

    A vast array of readily available fatwas, sermons, and interviews put ugly flesh on the structural bones of Qaradawi’s Weltanschauung as articulated in the 2/9/06, and 9/25/08 IkhwanWeb postings. As salient examples, Qaradawi has publicly advocated all of the following:

    * That Muslims emulate their prophet Muhammad as a model for violent, expansionist jihad, which includes the sanctioning of so-called jihad “martyrdom operations”
    * The re-creation of a formal transnational United Islamic State (Islamic Caliphate)
    * The jihad conquests of Europe and the Americas
    * Universal application of the Sharia, including Islamic blasphemy law, and the hadd punishments (for example, notably, executing so-called “apostates” from Islam)
    * Homicide “martyrdom” bombings of all Israeli Jews, including non-combatants, and subsequently, invoking Hitler and expanding the circle of hatred, a call for the frank jihad genocide of all Jews (“This was divine punishment for them. Allah willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers.”) Qaradawi also expressed a personal longing to die in a homicidal “martyrdom” operation targeting Jews: “I’d like to say that the only thing I hope for is that as my life approaches its end, Allah will give me an opportunity to go to the land of Jihad and resistance, even if in a wheelchair. I will shoot Allah’s enemies, the Jews, and they will throw a bomb at me, and thus, I will seal my life with martyrdom. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds. Allah’s mercy and blessings upon you.”)
    * Contextualizing his superficial message of “brotherhood” towards Egypt’s Coptic Christians in the 2/18/11 Tahrir Square speech, he issued a fatwa prohibiting Southern Sudanese Muslims from joining the Christian Southern Sudanese majority in voting to peacefully secede from the brutally discriminatory Sharia state government of the Arab Muslim Khartoum regime

    Julien Benda in his classic 1928 La Trahison des Clercs (The Treason of the Intellectuals) decried with prophetic accuracy how the abandonment of objective truth abetted totalitarian ideologies, which lead to the cataclysmic destruction of World War II. The Treason of the Intellectuals of our time remains the nearly complete failure of Western intellectuals to study, understand, or acknowledge the heinous consequences of the living, corollary Islamic institutions of jihad war, and Jew/infidel hatred.

    Victor Klemperer, a Dresden University Literature Professor of Jewish descent, recorded the following apposite diary entry on August 16, 1936 in “I Will Bear Witness,” his chronicle documenting the horrific brutality of daily life under Nazi tyranny:

    If one day the situation were reversed and the fate of the vanquished lay in my hands, then I would let all the ordinary folk go and even some of the leaders, who might perhaps after all have had honorable intentions and not known what they were doing. But I would have all the intellectuals strung up, and the professors three feet higher than the rest; they would be left hanging from the lamp posts for as long as was compatible with hygiene.

  31. Update from WI! Things could get even more interesting today as all schools are back in session and the furlough that state workers were on yesterday is done….theoretically….everyone should be back to work (except those swarmy dem senators, who are still MIA). Protestors you see today will be, for the most part, outsiders and professional thugs – SEIU national protest schedule lists Madison as it’s main stop today.

    We already have had a lot of outsiders and I sometimes wonder if the “innocent little first grade teacher” that bought into her local union propaganda and decided to show up to protest to “save her job” realizes what she’s gotten herself involved in. JAC referenced this earlier. Here a clip showing some of the stuff that went on this weekend.

    • Senate and Assembly are back in session today. There was talk of splitting the Budget Repair Bill into one part that handles financial matters and requires a quorum (6% contribution to health insurance/5% contribution to pension) and the other part which is the collective bargaining section, which would only require a majority and could get passed through the Senate. The Senate majority leader, at this point, says he does not want to do this, as it will be taken to court and would delay getting it into action, so they are only going to work on “minor” things today, like recognizing the SB Champs Packers and possibly voter ID. The Assembly minority leader has said the Dems already have 100 amendments and are working on more to the Budget Repair Bill, which will slow, delay and they hope, put an end to it.

      What is always good about these things, is the transparency and actual facts of the situation. As more information is getting out about what collective bargaining means and how the unions have controlled the dialog and end results, people are astonished at this whole concept and cannot believe it’s been allowed for so long. The average union contract (and there are hundreds of unions throughout the state on the state, county, municipal and school levels) takes 15 months to negotiate and as the Gov has stated, this concept must be removed so that each level can deal with the budget issues sooner, rather than have to go to each union to negotiate.

      Teachers have always lamented they are severely underpaid, but the benefits make up for their lack of pay. Well as public employees, their pay is public and because of the internet, a website to look-up the pay has been published and as more and more people see the salaries these teachers are drawing, their credibility continues to slip.

      I’ve seen the Governor in many interviews and, while he is only a politician, I’ve been impressed with his calmness, steadfastness and ability to articulate the factual whys of this action.

      One myth he’s busted (he comes out everyday and relates some of the “union truths” and then presents the facts). Police, fire were exempted for political payback. There are 314 police, fire unions in WI and he received endorsement from 4 of them.

      Ohio legislature working on similar bill. Their new Gov Kasich was on Fox this morning and relayed how collective bargaining has hurt the state: Let’s say not enough interest in taking French at OSU, so need to eliminate a french professor. There are nine pages of steps to be followed to eliminate a position and this process takes about 2-1/2 years. What a scam!!!!

      One more clip for you all on where this evil is comingn from:

      Corrupt Influence: Top Union Boss Talks to White House Everyday
      http://nation.foxnews.com/unions/2011/02/22/corrupt-influence-top-union-boss-talks-white-house-everyday

  32. It is being reported today that the 4 Americans being held by the Somali pirates were killed before US Navy ships could intercede to stop their murder.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41715530/ns/world_news-africa/

    I have to ask myself, what the heck were these four doing in those pirate infested waters? They should have known of the dangers in those water yet chose to enter them in a small sailing yacht – knowing (or strongly suspecting) they could be a target and unable to defend themselves.

    Now, who is to blame for their deaths?

    • I had read that they were well aware of the potential of danger and normally traveled with many other boats in a flotilla of sorts for protection. They evidently separated from that flotilla for whatever reason…a truly sad occurance. Whether they knew it was dangerous or not, to me, does not excuse their murder.

  33. Now, who is to blame for their deaths?

    Scott Walker …

    No, you’re right. It seems pretty insane to go anywhere near those waters … and we should take the handcuffs off our navy and let them patrol there without having to be fired on first, etc. … blow them out of the water is one way to put a stop to it (at least the one you blow out of the water).

    This is why I can’t actually join the communist party, by the way … they don’t believe in violence. When appropriate, I’m more than fine with it.

    • Charlie,

      Perhaps if the world stopped using Somalia water as a garbage dump, they wouldn’t need to pirate.

    • BTW…the Scott Walker comment was not lost…and pretty darn funny as well!

      • Ok, I admit it – I chuckled over the Walker comment. But, don’t tell Charlie – he falls out of his chair and has to run off to the gym when I agree with him. 😉

      • George Bush is saying, Thank God for Scott Walker!

        • He needs to stay in Crawford and stay silent. He will be of no assistance.

          • Being no fan of G.W. at all, I must say this:

            I give him a lot of credit for taking the direction of remaining out of the right-left battles of our political system since he left office.

            He’s refused to get involved and I think he made a very smart choice in doing so.

        • Good one Kathy.

          BF: I seriously doubt the pirates terrorizing those waters are concerned about the environment. Something tells me they’re in it for the fazools. Besides, aren’t you the guy who said the ocean will take care of itself (Gulf oil spill)?

          • Charlie,

            LoL!

            No, the dumping of nuclear waste does tend to destroyed their fishing grounds…..

            Read here:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia

            A United Nations report and several news sources have suggested that piracy off the coast of Somalia is caused in part by illegal fishing and the dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters by foreign vessels that have, according to Somali fishermen, severely constrained the ability of locals to earn a living and forced many to turn to piracy instead

  34. More from WI:

    Senate committee suspends direct deposit of paychecks. Want to get paid? Come pick up your check. Now this might not really be too big a deal, as we’ve heard the unions are picking up their costs while on the lam. But I would think they might have families back at home that might have expenses and if they live paycheck to paycheck. No $$$!

    Also, “my” Senator, tried to call in his vote and it was not accepted – I believe this was on voter ID, still in a committee setting. While call-in votes are, apparently, accepted, when there is an “open call of the house” members must be present to vote.

    Last Friday, when it became apparent that the Senate would not be able to take up the Budget Repair Bill, the Assembly decided to take it up first. Not sure what exactly happened, but apparently the Dems were out cheerleading to the crowd AND the Rep leader started the meeting 3 minutes early. When the Dems got there, the vote had started and one of the Reps had this temper tantrum on the floor.

    The Rep Leader admitted his error, he claimed he thought they were no shows like their counterparts, and then retracted the bill from the floor and stopped the process, to be reassigned to taking it up today. So, he admitted and corrected his wrongdoing.

    Here’s his rant:

    • This video has been posted everywhere by the left (I’ve seen it on FB over a dozen times) cheering for the guy who “stuck” it to those nasty Reps who were trying to not follow the proper procedure (with no mention of the Dem Senators of course).

      Well perhaps they idolized their guy a little too soon…..

      http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/02/wi-state-rep-says-his-sexual-misconduct-charges-are-a-distraction-from-larger-state-issues/

      Ooops! BTW, I’ve posted this link – no comments – on every one of those FB postings and low and behold – several have now been removed! Hahahaahahaaaahhhhaaa

    • Good Grief-are you serious-the union is actually paying the politicians for this stunt. Talk about pointing out the obvious problem with this relationship-a bribe to shut down democracy

    • he Daily Caller started reporting the salaries and benefits of teachers who went public with their complaints on Monday, and this story will contain more of them.

      Politico reported that Michael Mulvey, a high school algebra teacher in Wauwatosa, Walker’s hometown, held a sign that read: “Scott, I taught your son algebra. My son just turned 5. Does he deserve a good education?”

      Mulvey makes $46,687 in base salary and $25,481 in “fringe benefits,” which include health insurance, life insurance and retirement pay.

      Politico also reported that a high school math teacher from Green Bay, Karen Hill, traveled to Madison on a bus full of fellow teachers to protests, and held a sign that read, “negotiate not dictate.”

      Hill makes $59,695 in base salary with an additional $28,398 in benefits.

      Martha Vasquez, an art teacher in Madison, told Politico that she was irked more at former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin chiming into the debate than she was at Walker.

      “I was really surprised when Sarah Palin weighted in,” Vasquez said. “This bill is ripping apart the of what it means to be a Wisconsinite. We value education.”

      Vasquez makes $50,018 in base salary and $11,188 in benefits.

      Kevin Yeske, the assistant principal of Lincoln High School in Wisconsin Rapids, allowed students 20 minutes of one of their school days to protest Walker’s budget, and provided two school staffers to supervise the protest.

      “I was really impressed with our students,” Yeske told the Wisconsin Rapids Tribune. “They wanted to make a statement, but we want to make sure we don’t do any damage or consequences (to the school day); it was very well done.”

      Yeske makes $94,262 in base salary with an additional $35,076 in benefits.

      Henri Kinson, a former school board member in Whitewater, Wisc., told TheDC teachers receive five years of full health insurance after they retire, as long they worked for at least 10 years in the state. Kinson said that costs about $100,000 per teacher, funding he said comes from local school boards’ classroom and educational materials budgets – and could be used for more textbooks, technology for students and other learning materials.

      Kinson also said that the approximately $100,000 per teacher post-retirement health insurance plans don’t show up in the database of school employees’ salaries and benefits because when the teachers get them, they’re not employees anymore.

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/22/send-us-the-names-of-wisconsin-teachers-complaining-about-walker-to-the-press-and-well-tell-you-their-salaries/#ixzz1Ej5qTshY

      • Perhaps what is most important and what is not being mentioned in the news reports from Madison is the performance of the teachers in the Milwaukee Public School System; the same teachers who forced the closure of the city schools on Friday. As one of 17 urban districts with a graduation rate below 50 percent, the system is in serious trouble. Further, as recently as the 2005-6 school year (the last year for which this data is publicly available), there were over 11,000 calls to police from Milwaukee public schools. For example, the city’s vocational school, Bradley Tech, was thoroughly refurbished and reequipped by The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation in memory of its founders. Despite this, it has become a hotbed of violence, gang activity, and narcotics trafficking. When large-scale fights have broken out in the school, students have called their parents by cell phones to have the parents come and join the melee.

        The school board, mainly populated by representatives sympathetic to the teachers’ union, continues to raise taxes to finance increased salaries and benefits. On a national level, Obama’s first stimulus package included money to finance the construction of more Milwaukee schools, despite the fact that five school buildings currently stand empty.

    • While call-in votes are, apparently, accepted

      If they can call in their vote then their call in should count as “present” for a quorum. Then the Republicans would have had the needed Democrat “present.”

      Yeah, pure evil genius huh? 🙂

  35. I had a little rant on Wisconsin today on my blog (http://plainlyspoken.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/more-wisconsin/).

    It seems those wonderful union teachers aren’t doing right by their students…………..

    Better teaching and less preaching might be a good idea for them to follow.

  36. In the discussion on Sharia making it’s way into American society:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/22/jury-convicts-iraqi-immigrant-honor-killing/

    This is how we, with our society, are going to have to deal with it.

  37. Bonnie Carniello says:

    Catholic schools spend $10,500.00 per child to educate per year and they are ahead of the public schools. I say give the taxes taken from the people, give it back to the public to create more private schools (religious or not) and the children will do better for less. Maybe someday, we could catch up with China! When I was growing up teachers weren’t paid enough. Everything is reversed now because of the benefits that private industry can’t match.

    The money that is given to the politicians from the Unions is controlled by the heads of unions, not the members. Either the members should be able to vote on who gets what or give those monies back to the members and they can give it to whoever they want to in political arenas.

    An opinion about people sailing around the world alone. They have to had thought that the boat could catch fire and they would be eaten by sharks or drown and if they’re in the water, there are pirates! The best thing is that they were living their lives as they chose and trying to spread the word of God.

    I vote to stop importing oil and use what is here and mine Alaska and other areas in the U.S. That will save a huge amount of cash, let all those countries taking billions from us eat their oil and stop filling their coffers with our money!

    After three years I don’t care about other countries anymore. Save America and by the way, if Shariah law is allowed in this country, all the divorced women can be killed, not to mention the gays. That should cut down on our population.

    We woke up to more snow!
    There’s nothing that’s quite so quiet and clean as snow that falls in the night and isn’t it jolly to jump from bed and find the whole world white! Written by a boy who could neither speak or move-Under the Eye of the Clock-The Life Story of Christopher Nolan.

    I have a lot of opinions.

    Regards, Bonnie

    • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

      Haven’t seen you post here before. In case the locals have forgotten to say it….

      Welcome to the asylum!

      Always good to have at least one additional opinion.

      Tsk, Tsk USW where are your manners good sir!

      DCU

      • Bonnie doesn’t need welcoming. She helped invent SUFA or something to that effect..right Bonnie 🙂

        • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

          My apologies,

          I’ve only been following along for 13-14 months now I think.

          I may have missed a few posters along the way.

          But a warm Canadian welcome seems to be appreciated worldwide.

          Besides…my daddy would tan my hide if I didn’t tip my hat to the new lady I’ve just encountered….Chivalry is not dead, merely comatose in this society.

          DCU

          • Whereabout in Canada BTW?

            • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

              Small town Northern Ontario

              • Nice! West of Detroit here! Never been past Windsor. I really like your dad! 🙂

              • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

                Dad is French-Canadian and had one philosophy…respect women OR ELSE.

                I am ~4 hours north of Toronto in a little town (pop. 50,000) on a big lake. Some of the most amazing scenery you can get without mountains. Wildlife (bears, moose, deer, various members of Rodentia) teems in this neck of the woods. As a matter of fact I damn near hit a bull moose on Saturday, he was pretty skinny at about 800 pounds.

              • I lived in Northern Ontario for a couple of years, spent time in Barrie, Sudbury and Haileybury.

              • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

                Bob,

                I am in North Bay, 125 km east of Sudbury

              • Yeah been through North Bay a few times, think I was there for a couple of days, its getting a bit fuzzy now, its been ten years. I was down in Brampton and Burlington for a while too.

          • Carbon Unit

            Sounds to me that you are of the right mind set to be in need of a rather large hat.

            When one tips his hat to the ladies it must be done with a flourish, and with Gray of course.

        • Between Bonnie and her daughter, you could say that, Anita. Rani is one of my very best friends in the world. We have known each other since we were about 10 or 11. And she gave a big push to me starting SUFA. Bonnie is like my second mother, and I don’t do enough to let her know the impact she had on me. She is one of the sweetest women in the world.

      • DCU, Thanks for welcoming her back! Manners never were my strong point, lol.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Bonnie,

      Quote: “I vote to stop importing oil and use what is here and mine Alaska and other areas in the U.S. That will save a huge amount of cash, let all those countries taking billions from us eat their oil and stop filling their coffers with our money!”

      Your wish is coming true. Hope your ready!

  38. Bonnie Carniello says:

    DCU,

    I haven’t posted for many months, but did post in the past.

    There are a great many great conversations on this blog and a great sum of intelligence, but I have Grandchildren and have spent a lot of time helping with 4 of them aged 5,4,3 and 2 in the past 3 years. For anyone who remembers Rani Merryman, I am her Mother.

    Now the word asylum is scary! Behind every third door!

    Every now and again, I step into the adult world and indulge in decadence that makes me happy! The last 24 hours was some of that.

    Regards, Bonnie

    • Bonnie

      You need to tell Rani to come back to SUFA and tell us what she learned/experienced in her running for public office.

      I think it might be helpful for many others wondering what they can do to make a difference.

      Just to address one of your points. It makes no sense for the USA to pay $90/barrel to extract crude from Alaska if we can buy it for $85 from the Saudi’s.

      I have no problem with them having some of our money for oil. I hope they burn the stuff. It might help balance the Federal Reserve’s M2 money supply problem.

  39. Whatsamatter JAC? No lefties to keep in check around here? Or did you skip off to IL also to keep them in check 🙂

    • anita

      I have an entire town full right here. No need to mess with your lefties. I have my own. Looks to me like Kathy’s tribe might have kicked over the cook pot though. Loved watching that video of the soooooooooooo 60’s rally. LOL

      I have been busy lately as I found out a week ago that we are moving. And not to D.C. but farther west. Right smack in the middle of the most lefty village you can find in this part of the world.

      Remember once when you were concerned and I said I never get depressed. Well I am finding more and more these days that I am experiencing all those things I said I “never” do or would do. And I think depressed is one of them. A minimum of three years in purgatory.

      My friends are making fun of me. They say I can start a radical right wing liberal or a conservative support group when I get there. With a little work I should be able to find enough people we could hold the meetings inside my Suburban. Some of my friends fancy themselves comedians.

      Of course I would probably do the same if the role were reversed.

      I’ll be jumping in when I get time.

      I also felt frustrated with the whole Islam is evil discussion again. So I thought I would just watch and read. While I see some folks struggling more earnestly with the problem I still see far too many who are allowing themselves to be scared into taking positions that will erode their desire and fight for freedom.

      • JAC, This is the first time I made it back this far today. I was referring to our resident lefties at first then I figured I’d jab you about the national lefties.

        I thought I was sensing some depression with you. I was chalking it up to cabin fever. Now I see why. Farther west? Please don’t tell me you have to move in next to Pelosi. 🙂 I’m guessing Seattle though.

        We don’t have to get into it but count me in on the freakin myself out over evil muslims crowd. I sure hope you’re right.

        Cheers JAC!

  40. Bonnie Carniello says:

    Wow, and all I did was take a shower!

    Anita, all I did was suggest to USWeapon that he had an excellent writing ability and a lot of street smarts to share, but thanks for the accolades!

    Disposable Carbon Unit,

    Is that a water filter?

    Are you from Canada?

    Being a Virginian by birth, I am thankful knowing chivalry is not dead. Thank you suga!

    Gmanfortruth,

    I know many will not be happy, but gas rationing was around during WWII and everybody got to work and pulled together and managed. Today with all of our technological habits and economic constrictions in the last couple of years, we are home more and could stand not to have everything we want all the time.

    Just a Citizen,

    I will tell Rani. She worked like a sled dog for 1 1/2 years to educate Marylanders and anyone who would stand still for 30 seconds. I don’t know if you know, but she lost her run for House of Delegates by 140 votes. Not much for an unknown entity! When she made speeches in Annapolis, people really responded to her. She wouldn’t accept any special interest monies and showed integrity and that hurt her too. She had said she wouldn’t go back to work until her children were in school, but then felt she needed to give it a shot now. She had a lot of backing, but no money. That hurt too. Thanks for the care and interest. She has always been my heroine and she has always helped her peers and worked for the underdog!

    The oil companies are given huge TAX incentives. If the Administration wants to pick up some fat cash, that would be a start. I would rather pay more for gas if we could save the billions spent getting our military through territory overseas with troops and/or equipment. We are paying blood money we don’t have at this point.

    I’m just sick of helping other countries who spit on us, kill us and rape our women, but they’ll take our money!!!!

    Regards, Bonnie

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Bonnie, With my unending respect, all I can say is that the the oil companies are going to make gas rationing of the 40’s and 70’s look like a walk in the park. The devaluation of the dollar is just another big problem that most don’t see. Garlic, of all things, went up 100% last week. Not because there is a garlic shortage. Stock up on food now!

      G!

    • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

      My internet handle was a nickname I earned in the laboratory where I did my graduate studies. It was a meatgrinder of a laboratory and not many people could make it, I did.

      It also earned me the name Disposable Carbon Unit to show me exactly where I stood in the pecking order.

      God I miss that lab some days.

  41. The American Bar Association (ABA) has decided to undertake the fight for Sharia law. The ABA’s Executive Counsel “has organized a Task Force to review the legislation of 14 states — Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming — in which anti-Sharia legislation has been introduced.”

    The goal of the ABA’s Task Force is to fight against these legislative initiatives by free people, and to develop “an informal set of ‘talking points’ that local opponents of these initiatives could use to make their case in each of these states.”

    Here’s the relevant extract from the ABA’s International Policies 2010:

    Oklahoma referendum related Rule of Law initiatives.

    The Section’s Executive Counsel has organized a Task Force to review the legislation of 14 states — Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Wyoming – in which anti-Sharia legislation has been introduced. The goal of the Task Force is to have a Report and Recommendation against such legislation as well as an informal set of “talking points” that local opponents of these initiatives could use to make their case in each of these states. We received a lot of interest from members and have forwarded your interest. At this point, the task force is in the planning and organizing stage. We will keep you updated as to the progress and we may call upon some of you who expressed their interest in this matter to volunteer.

    In reality, Islamic law is the most radical and intolerant system of governance on the face of the earth. It denies the freedom of speech, the freedom of conscience, and legal equality for women and non-Muslims. That’s why so many states are trying to ban it. The ABA should be on the forefront of this battle. The Oklahoma ban was brilliant but poorly worded (which is why a liberal judge found it so easy to overrule the will of the people) and had 70% of voters approving of it — it is clear that American people understand the Islamic threat to our constitutional republic.

    Instead, our cultural warlords in the mainstream media, academia and entertainment strictly enforce the blasphemy laws of Islam, which command that one must not insult or slander Islam. In Muslim countries, blasphemy is punishable by death; in the West, it is your character that is assassinated if you dare to speak out against the Islamic supremacist agenda. Our last line of defense was always the rule of law. So it is particularly jarring and deeply disturbing to come upon this latest initiative from the ABA, the last line of defense against sharia creep.

    Furthermore, the ABA’s “Middle East Law committee” has promoted Sharia finance for some time, with the same warmly positive slant.

    Unfortunately, the ABA is not alone in this. In late January, New York State Senator Kevin Parker introduced a bill to set up an alternative bond market that would comply with Islamic law regarding financial transactions.

    Has Kevin Parker ever heard of the separation of church and state, or in this case, mosque and state? I’ll be damned before my hard-earned taxpayer dollars go to zakat (jihad), or to the prohibition of pork, alcohol, and some forms of adult entertainment.

    This is the financial jihad.

    Meanwhile, the Los Angeles City Council passed a resolution recently that decried “Islamophobia.”

    The term “Islamophobia” itself is an enforcement of Islamic blasphemy laws. Islamic law commands that there be no candor about Islam or criticism of Islam. Any truthful statements about Islamic supremacism and violence are considered blasphemy. That’s why it is shocking that Los Angeles, which is just this side of Sodom and Gomorrah, is passing resolutions that accord with Islamic law. No one in America cares what and who you worship; just don’t force it upon us. I don’t care if you worship a stone, just don’t stone me with it. And stop telling us how many Muslims don’t commit jihadi acts. Of course they don’t. So what? I don’t believe in rewarding people for doing the right thing. I don’t believe in congratulating people for not committing acts of violence against people outside their religion.

    Thus the Los Angeles City Council’s passage of this resolution opposing “Islamophobia” and repudiating violence against Muslims is a step back centuries into the dark ages. According to the FBI, “hate crime” against Muslims is at its lowest in a decade, but acts of jihad are accelerating at warp speed. Yet the Los Angeles City Council passes no resolutions against jihad, honor killings, misogyny, gender apartheid, Islamic antisemitism, kuffarophobia, etc.

    Sharia is being imposed across state lines, across the country, by way of these varying initiatives. We must push back.

    And the ABA has nothing to say about any of this; it is too busy fighting against anti-Sharia, pro-freedom laws. It is yet another terrible sign of a morally inverted world.

    Pamela Geller is the editor and publisher of the Atlas Shrugs website and former associate publisher of the New York Observer. She is the author of The Post-American Presidency.

    Update. The American Bar Association responds:

    The American Bar Association has taken no action in support of, or in opposition to, judges considering Islamic law or Sharia.

    The American Bar Association has nearly 400,000 members, many of whom volunteer with any of the ABA’s 2,200 entities. One of those 2,200 entities is the Section on International Law, which has elected to assemble a taskforce of several individuals to examine this issue.

    These individuals are examining whether the proposed changes to the law impact important constitutional questions. They are also considering implications for international commerce.

    The actions of a few interested members within one section are not and cannot be interpreted to be those of the entire American Bar Association. Claims to the contrary are erroneous.

    Martha J. Heil
    News Director

    American Bar Association

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/the_abas_jihad.html

    Court system-our freedoms rely on the court system. And a part of our court system is doing this “The goal of the ABA’s Task Force is to fight against these legislative initiatives by free people, and to develop “an informal set of ‘talking points’ that local opponents of these initiatives could use to make their case in each of these states.” Their just studying the matter but they have already decided to help in the fight Against Stopping Sharia Law.

    • V.H.

      I know this looks like an example to support some of your other concerns. And those of Kathy.

      But I urge you not to jump to conclusions just yet.

      Also notice how many times in this article the author tells you what to think about a statement but provides no evidence as to why you should think that way.

      Also examples of assigning a false meaning to a statement. For example, opposition to these laws may NOT mean support for imposing Sharia law in the USA. It could just mean they think the laws violate our basic principles. I don’t know for sure, just saying it and other things may be the motivation here.

      As for all the other discussion let me share this thought I had the other day on the subject. I do not think Islam, even the version with all the bad stuff, is a problem in the USA. WE are the problem. If WE had not let our values erode and our freedom slip away there is nothing in the world that we would have reason to fear. Including Islam.

  42. Bonnie Carniello says:

    DCU, thanks for the explanation. I have always wanted to go to Canada by train, almost made it about 15 years ago. I wanted to fish for salmon and see the scenery.

    Don’t feel bad about the nickname, we are all but a grain of sand or a blossom. Make it memorable!

    PA has small mountains, but beautiful none the less. There is a Route 77 that goes over the mountain to MD and after it snows and thaws enough to travel, it is exquisite scenery. When the children were growing up, if we had an ice storm, the drive up the mountain was surreal with all the trees hanging heavy with ice.

    USWeapon, thanks for the kind words. Are you healed?

    Regards, Bonnie

    • I am getting there. Still pretty sore some days but I am definitely healing. I should be back to 100% in a month or two. Then it is on to more martial arts. It is looking like I will seek another black belt as Mrs. Weapon wants to do one with me!

  43. Bonnie Carniello says:

    Gmanfortruth,

    All the more reason for people to plant a garden! USWeapon and I know a bit about herbs. Gardening, dancing and making love all have a common thread. You don’t have to have a degree to do any of it and the results are amazing!

    Regards, Bonnie

    • You fergot fishin’

    • gmanfortruth says:

      You could not be more correct Bonnie! I’m what many would call a survivalist in some ways, I’m loade with self canned veggies for at least a year now, and can’t wait to till the garden this year. I can venison as well, which we had a good year in ’10. Raising a pig at the neighbors farm, who raises Black Angus cattle. Preperation is better than turning away from the potential problems coming our way!

      Peace!

    • gmanfortruth says:

      You could not be more correct Bonnie! I’m what many would call a survivalist in some ways, I’m loade with self canned veggies for at least a year now, and can’t wait to till the garden this year. I can venison as well, which we had a good year in ’10. Raising a pig at the neighbors farm, who raises Black Angus cattle. Preperation is better than turning away from the potential problems coming our way!

      Peace!

  44. Kathy, Anita, V.H., et al.

    You know if you guys took care of business like we did in Idaho you wouldn’t have to worry about the Dems running off to another state.

    “The Spokesman-Review reports: “The House (IDAHO) has voted 55-14 in favor of SB 1006, to ban project labor agreements in public works construction contracts, a measure strongly opposed by union workers; the Senate-passed bill now moves to the governor’s desk.”

    PLEASE NOTICE THE VOTES CAST……….55 TO 14.

    Although it looks like the Dems picked up a few seats since I left. Note to self…………call friends and relatives tomorrow to get those numbers back to normal 65 to 4 by 2012. You can see by those numbers that wolves are not the most endangered specie in the state………bwahahahaha.

  45. USDA Senior Scientist Sends “Emergency” Warning to US Secretary of Agriculture

    An open letter appeared on the Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance founded and run by Judith McGeary to save family farms in the US [1, 2]. The letter, written by Don Huber, professor emeritus at Purdue University, to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack, warns of a pathogen “new to science” discovered by “a team of senior plant and animal scientists”. Huber says it should be treated as an “emergency’’, as it could result in “a collapse of US soy and corn export markets and significant disruption of domestic food and feed supplies.”

    http://www.i-sis.org.uk/newPathogenInRoundupReadyGMCrops.php

  46. TexasTeacher Stated”I have spent much of my life in my “gay lifestyle” bettering and improving my own life, the life of my partner and the lives of hundreds of children (not to mention time defending your right to say the things you say here and likely in public). What I do to “better” things has nothing to do with how my partner and I show each other affection (publicly and privately) and what we do in the bedroom. In my neck of the woods in Texas (NE of Houston) your attitude is quickly and thankfully becoming a minority fringe attitude.”

    TC:Wow! This is great.
    I have a few questions for you.
    As a teacher do you believe a persons sexual preferance could influence a developing childs sexual preferance? I know there have been family studies results that have come to the conclusion that an established male father/female mother relationship influences childrens mental and physical development in a positive manner.Boys learn social skills and responsibilities (how to be a man) from their father and girls social skills and responsibilities(how to be a woman) from their mother.
    Do you think a child observing the behavior of a homosexual couple would be confused and influenced negatively as to any of the social “norms” of a stable society?
    Did you just wake up one day and decide you were gay from some epiphany or were you influenced in some manner?
    Do you feel as if you ever had a choice in the matter?
    Do you think NAMBLA a legitimate organization?
    Could you tell me where in the neck of the woods of Texas you are that my “attitude” is becoming a part of the fringe minority so that I may educate those there as to what a stable society is and my “attitude” become a majority?

    Thanks Mr. Texas Teacher for your time and opinion!

    • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

      So let me see…..

      Because I cook and my wife doesn’t I may be screwing with my childs’ idea of gender based roles?

      • Let’s not beat around the bush DCU…
        That is not the point I was making.
        My point was in regards to same sex couples.
        It had nothing to do with a normal male female relationship.

  47. PlainlySpoken Stated:”I direct your attention to John 8 when the adulteress was brought before Jesus and it was demanded of Jesus that he judge the woman according to the Law of Moses. We are both aware of what our Lord said and did.

    I direct your attention specifically to John 8:15 (“Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.”) and I respectfully ask what your understanding of this verse is?

    For reference I follow the KJV version.

    TC: In the future before you attempt to ever make a point to me in regards to religious works (any religion) please be aware that I went through a loong stage in my life eagerly searching for the answer to the Universe, Life and Everything!

    To answer your question, John 8:15 is simply Jesus telling the Pharisees that they judge with their own minds by human standards. The Pharisees were trying to set up a dilemma for Jesus passing judgement on the adulterer.Jesus flipped the script on them though.If Jesus said to not stone her then it would appear that Jesus was breaking God’s law and if If Jesus said Yes stone her then He would be breaking Roman law which didn’t allow the Jews to execute anyone without their permission.

    Jesus wasn’t setting aside the Old Testament judicial laws. And Jesus wasn’t saying that every person is unfit to render judgment upon another person. If this were the case, then juries and judges would be unbiblical! Jesus was just turning the trap back on the Pharisees who intended to trap Him.

    Jesus statement of “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone.” has always been controversial as some peoples attempts at pointing out the classic “Who are you to judge attitude” and I appreciate the effort at what you were trying to point out. Don’t forget that John 8:16-19 was where Jesus made his case that he could judge by the authority given to him by God.

    PlainlySpoken what does judge with righteous judgment mean in John 7:24 ?

    and

    We can judge a person by there fruits, what a person lives – Matt 7:15-20.

    and

    I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them – Rom 16:17.

    Honestly I don’t like it when people just quote one scripture from a book of the bible though.You have to understand the circumstances of everything going on to understand the full meaning of whats being said.

    • I have to make the long run into town and back – but I will get to responding to this comment today (likely late this afternoon or evening.

      I appreciate your response (though maybe not some of the inference that I don’t “understand the circumstances of everything going on to understand the full meaning of what’s being said.” Do not presume to be the only one who has spent a lifetime searching). Your response gives me what I was looking for – a better picture of your stances.

      • I doubt very seriously that you could get a picture of my beliefs just from what I posted in reference to your question.While I’m quite certain most of the SUFA posters believe me to be the southern, bigoted, redneck, gun toting, right wing radical…nothing could be further from the truth. If anything I deny all doctrine that can be logically proven to be or having been used by man to further an agenda not in accordance with nature or natures God. *Gasp* Ask yourself these questions if you really want to know my stance…
        What common beliefs and teachings do all the major religions have in common?
        What is religions purpose?
        What and where is Heaven?
        What and where is Hell?
        Why are there no missing link fossils?
        What is the oldest civilization with written records?
        Is there life elsewhere in the Universe?

        • As I said, you’re answer was sufficient. It makes not one whit of difference of what your opinion is as to what your answer provides (or doesn’t provide).

          But thanks for trying to impose your imprint on my unstated intentions in asking the question.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Ooooh religious exercise and boredom at work… I’d like to take a stab!

          Common beliefs? The golden rule
          Purpose? a) To assuage people’s uncertainty as to why there are here and what happens when they die and b) To control people
          Heaven? No such place/thing
          Hell? No such place/thing
          Missing link fossils? Haven’t been found yet
          Oldest civilization? Unsure: China perhaps; if not China, Mesopotamia?
          Life elsewhere in the Universe? Sure.

  48. Nanny state out of control!
    6-year-old committed to psych ward against mom’s wishes!
    Have you seen this story about a 6-year-old boy who was committed to a psych ward for 48 hours because of a violent picture he drew at school — against his mother’s wishes?

    http://moms.today.com/_news/2011/02/15/6058506-6-year-old-committed-to-psych-ward-against-moms-wishes

  49. Bonnie Carniello says:

    Just a Citizen,

    Sorry, fishin’ is every bit as amazing for many reasons! You have a great sense of humor! Have a great day!

    gmanfortruth,

    I never canned meat, but my Mother did. We need to teach and relearn barter as well, since soon you can burn the dollar bill, as it won’t be worth anything and no one will want US money, so back to survival mode! Children can learn to weed as well.

    Texas Chem,

    Don’t forget the stink bug. My understanding is pest control can’t kill them. Somebody was just on TV saying he had killed 16,000 of them. Although, I hesitate to ask did he count them.

    The 6-year-old had already been in therapy and the school instituted the call. Maybe society should pay more attention to the bizaare behavior in their neighborhoods instead of just ignoring it until something terrible happens. Again, behind every third door!

    Regards to all, Bonnie

  50. USW,

    I have read your article several times and I believe you caught up in the moment. The majority of us here at SUFA have hope for the world and a belief in democracy for all peoples. I too wish for all cultures to mesh for the betterment of all. I do not believe that will ever happen with Islam. The idealogical differences between the West and Islam cannot be melded without Islam changing. It is against a core belief of Islam itself for that to ever happen. That is not an opinion but a fact.

    Your last paragraph you stated:
    “For many years you have watched and waited claiming that all muslims were the same. That the religion was a religion that spawned mindless action. For many years you have asked for some proof that muslims were not all the same, bent on the destruction of others and subservient to the religious words of hateful leaders. For all this time you asked for some evidence that Islam was more than a single mindless, hateful voice.”

    Do you believe the reporters that have been covering the Egyptian “revolution” believe the protesters have proved themselves not mindless? If you do then I would suggest giving Lara Logan a call and asking her opinion of the “moderates”.

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