Entering the “Green Zone”; Leaving Reality

Many months ago I saw the trailers for the Matt Damon film, “Green Zone.” Just seeing the trailers was enough for me to see that it appeared to be an anti-American movie, so I decided that I wasn’t going to go give my hard earned money at the theater to watch it, despite the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed Damon and director Paul Greenglass’s previous Bourne movies. This afternoon, I was flipping through channels and found the movie starting on one of the premium movie channels. I figured if I didn’t have to pay for it, and thus risk giving money to a director who may be trashing America, I might as well give the movie a try. So I watched it. Exactly as I had figured, it was an anti-American movie from start to finish.

That isn’t to say it wasn’t enjoyable. It was. Damon was his usual self, a good actor who I usually enjoy watching in his roles. The movie was well filmed and was absolutely an enjoyable thriller with plenty of suspense. But there was little doubt that the movie was created with a clear agenda in mind. It was no less political than a Michael Moore flick. There were two political messages in the movie, one that I agreed with and one that I didn’t.

The first is one that no one will disagree with any longer. The media is easily manipulated because they are willing to take what the government tells them at face value. They are no longer journalists, but broadcasting agents for political messaging. In the movie the media was blamed for selling the WMD lie and it is pointed out to the main journalist who led the way that she did so without checking facts and without questioning sources. This was covered in a single two-minute scene in the movie and could have easily been missed if you weren’t a political thinker as you watched. But I caught it and definitely agree that the media isn’t a place where journalists reside any longer.

The second message was the rest of the movie. The premise was that a high ranking General in Saddam’s army had gone to the Americans prior to the war in Iraq for a meeting. In that meeting he told them the “truth”: Iraq dismantled their WMD programs after the first Gulf War and they had none any longer. The evil Americans, however, manipulated the media and told the world that a secret source in the Iraqi military confirmed for them that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The movie demonized the American government, portrayed United States Special Operations soldiers as sadistic political activists willing to help cover up the truth, and forced the audience to once again root against the evil US government.

There are no shortage of people in hollywood for whom the far left agenda is a comfortable blanket. Hypocrite millionaires who harp about American capitalism, American wealth, and American political maneuvers all while living the life of luxury provided by the things they despise. Anything that portrays the American military as evil is hailed in Hollywood. The only thing that gets as much play in Hollywood as anti-Americanism is anti-humanism (See Avatar for a prime example).

As a result, American soldiers are presented as uneducated rednecks just looking for a chance to “kill ragheads” and abuse innocent foreign nationals under the guise of war. American corporations are presented as ultra-powerful evil entities all striving to create the conditions for their world domination. And more often than not, the evils portrayed are specifically those on the “right” side of the American political spectrum. It’s all actually kind of disgusting and, in my opinion, presents a Hollywood that acutely despises America. Further, it presents America to the rest of the world as Hollywood wishes America to be viewed.

Gone are the days when Hollywood presented movies that portrayed the American spirit as an ideal. There are no more John Wayne type movies that present Americans as principled, value-driven, and fair. Instead we get films from Oliver Stone, Brian DePalma, and Greenglass which present Americans as corrupt, devoid of any principles, and arrogant. Combine what Hollywood is putting out with the messages of Rap music and the degrading portrayal of Americans dishonestly labeled as “reality TV,” and is it any wonder that other cultures are going out of their way to make sure their children don’t become “westernized”?

But my point was not the damage Hollywood and the entertainment industry does to the American image abroad. My point is the impact of the anti-Americanism in Hollywood on the average Americans who are the audience for their propaganda. After viewing “Green Zone,” I was amazed at the number of people in forums that I read about the movie who believe that the premise of the movie was accurate. There are swaths of Americans who believe that an Iraqi General told the US that no WMD’s existed and we covered it up.

And that is a testament to the negative impact that Hollywood is having on America. The GOP certainly has enough reasons for Americans to despise the party without also having half the hatred come from false belief based on Hollywood’s nonsense. Stone, DePalma, Greenglass, and especially Michael Moore’s anti-American ass are creating a hatred of conservatives based on complete falsehoods. Moore does so more than anyone else. His movies have been lies from start to finish, yet there are those who believe every word he says.

And they are getting to our kids. Take, for instance, Justin Bieber. He did a Rolling Stone interview where he said America’s health care system is “evil” (while lauding the fact that in Canada they don’t have to worry about paying for health care). Yeah I know, he is just a 16 year little shit who doesn’t know anything. But care to take a guess at what kind of influence Bieber has with teenage girls in this country. Millions of little girls just got drawn to the dark side by another celebrity dipshit. (as a quick aside, Bieber lamented that one of his bodyguards had a premature baby and would be paying off hospital bills forever. Interesting that the 16 year old worth over 100 million wasn’t jumping at the chance to be charitable and take care of it). Note to Bieber: Shut the hell up. Your free health care system is failing.

These Hollywood country-slandering tales are altering the average citizen’s view of the country they live in. Too many Americans have been indoctrinated into the belief that the American military is evil, the American mainstream is devoid of principles or values, and the mistaken belief that if it weren’t for America, the world would be a happy place where all the people would hold hands, sing, and end all hostilities.

The reality is that we are not a perfect country. Some of the corporations out there are evil. A few of the soldiers out there are dumb rednecks who abuse their position. And there have been too many times when our government did act in a way that lacked principle. But I still believe that the United States is the best country on earth. When you get past Washington DC, I think that the average American cares more about others and operates with a higher set of principles than most. More aid flows from our wallets to help the rest of the world than from anywhere else. More has been done by the US military to stop horrendous atrocities than by any other. And the majority of corporations out there operate with integrity and their only crime is seeking a profit (which it seems Hollywood and the far left wish to label as a crime).

McCarthyism was a sad chapter in our history. And perhaps it was several decades too early. There was a witch hunt at the time for communists, those in Hollywood who were anti-American and wanted to see the US fail. But I submit that while communism is no longer the threat, Hollywood is far more anti-American now than it ever was during the days of McCarthy. I am not advocating for another McCarty style witch hunt, I am merely noting that things are far worse in la-la land Los Angeles than they were then.

It seems that Hollywood spends so much time in make-believe land that they apparently have lost the ability to differentiate between what is real and what is fantasy. They have lost their minds and become accomplished at the art of presenting their fantasy as reality, much like the current President. It wouldn’t be such a problem if they weren’t so damn good at it. We have got to find a way to counter the BS that comes out of the mouths of the Stones and Moores out there. If not we are allowing them to define reality, and thus persuade a large portion of the population to rebel against the things that make us American.

We are coming to a crossroads in America. A time where we are going to be forced to redefine what America will be going forward. The progressives have done a stellar job of ensuring that history is re-written to favor their position (there was a great Stossel show the other night on the reality behind historical claims about the New Deal’s effectiveness and the benefits created by unions). We cannot continue to allow the media and Hollywood to continue to push out their false realities presented as facts. I don’t know how to stop them, but we better find a way or we will all be screwed…

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Comments

  1. I figured if I didn’t have to pay for it, and thus risk giving money to a director who may be trashing America,

    While I “mostly” agree that everyone has an agenda (see Rupert Murdoch, NY Times, most of the cable channels, etc.), I disagree that it is an attempt to trash America. Pointing out some wrongs (especially if deemed accurate) shouldn’t be considered “trashing” … Michael Moore has an agenda and often taints his documentaries with front loaded/exaggerated and edited for convenience episodes. He also provides some very accurate information that people are better served knowing than ignoring.

    Anything that portrays the American military as evil is hailed in Hollywood. The only thing that gets as much play in Hollywood as anti-Americanism is anti-humanism

    Surely you don’t think that of Saving Private Ryan and/or Band of Brothers.

    Hypocrite millionaires who harp about American capitalism

    I don’t think they’re hypocrites if they “harp” about capitalism. Some may well be Ivory tower liberals, but others may well believe they were more fortunate to benefit so grossly than falsely attribute their wealth to the “sweat of their brows” …

    As a result, American soldiers are presented as uneducated rednecks just looking for a chance to “kill ragheads” and abuse innocent foreign nationals under the guise of war

    Generation Kill produced by David Simon (The Wire, Treme, etc.) did a wonderful job, I thought, in his presentation of the book. I didn’t come away thinking it was the soldiers doing wrong. I came away thinking I had backed the wrong horse (Bush) and should feel the embarrassment I continue to feel today for doing so. It was (and is) an illegal, unjust and unnecessary war …. where a lot of innocents were killed for no good reason under the sun.

    It’s all actually kind of disgusting and, in my opinion, presents a Hollywood that acutely despises America

    Someone might read the above sentence and perceive you as having the same type of agenda against the left (anyone who doesn’t worship America). Any form of nationalism is requires superiority of one over another that just doesn’t exist.

    Gone are the days when Hollywood presented movies that portrayed the American spirit as an ideal.

    I assume here you mean the propaganda films during and after wars. John Wayne … the guy who never fought a war but portrayed it so brilliantly (Americans rarely (if ever) portrayed as doing wrong about anything). Principled? We went to war over principle? Here I thought we went to war in the 40’s because Germany declared war on us first (while we already knew about the holocaust) and Japan had to attack us first.

    There are swaths of Americans who believe that an Iraqi General told the US that no WMD’s existed and we covered it up.

    I have no idea if this is true or not, but I sure wouldn’t doubt it for a mili-second. Why would you, USW, suddenly believe whatever the government tells you? That’s a bit of a contradiction, no?

    His movies have been lies from start to finish, yet there are those who believe every word he says.

    See above; this is just not true. He wasn’t lying in Capitalism, a love story, when those he interviewed couldn’t explain what had happened (derivatives), or that Congress voted behind closed doors after being stopped by the public, or that there was a clause written into the bailout that precluded it from being judicially reviewed/challenged. That in itself was enough truth for me.

    Millions of little girls just got drawn to the dark side by another celebrity dipshit.

    The little dipshit just went up a few points in my book, but fear not, there are an equal number of dipshits (perhaps older) on the GOP side of the argument who claimed there would be death panels.

    But I still believe that the United States is the best country on earth.

    Most of us do, we just don’t believe it shouldn’t be criticized for its flaws.

    • USWeapon says:

      While I “mostly” agree that everyone has an agenda (see Rupert Murdoch, NY Times, most of the cable channels, etc.), I disagree that it is an attempt to trash America. Pointing out some wrongs (especially if deemed accurate) shouldn’t be considered “trashing”

      That is the point, Charlie, those wrongs in Green Zone are not accurate. I guess the reality is that I have grown tired of watching Hollywood make these bullshit movies that attempt to paint George Bush as the devil who couldn’t wait to go to war and was willing to do anything, even lie, to get there. It is inaccurate and dishonest. When you throw in there films such as “Redacted” from DePalma which were meant to do little more than attempt to embarrass the US military, my annoyance grows.

      Michael Moore has an agenda and often taints his documentaries with front loaded/exaggerated and edited for convenience episodes. He also provides some very accurate information that people are better served knowing than ignoring.

      I disagree. Michael Moore is a liar. Almost as big a liar as Obama. His movies are little more than attempts to make a case by linking together things that shouldn’t be, taking “artisitic license” with reality, and completely ignoring facts that get in the way of his agenda. His bullshit 9/11 movie wasn’t art, wasn’t anywhere near a documentary, and should have tanked both his career and his credibility. Instead, idiots without the ability to use critical thinking skills gave him the cash to produce more trash.

      Surely you don’t think that of Saving Private Ryan and/or Band of Brothers.

      Not as much with those two, but I surely think it the vast majority of movies. The military is generally portrayed negatively.

      I don’t think they’re hypocrites if they “harp” about capitalism. Some may well be Ivory tower liberals, but others may well believe they were more fortunate to benefit so grossly than falsely attribute their wealth to the “sweat of their brows” …

      Yes, they are hypocrites. They complain about capitalism, which enabled their success. They consistently call for changes to government to force others to do exactly what it is that they are not willing to do themselves. When I see lefty whackos in Hollywood start giving up their own cash instead of clamoring for government to force others to give up theirs, I might give them some credibility.

      And the “sweat of the brow” argument is weak at best. You really should drop it from your platform.

      It was (and is) an illegal, unjust and unnecessary war …. where a lot of innocents were killed for no good reason under the sun.

      Drop illegal from your sentence and I can go along with you. He received Congressional approval. Therefore, the war is not illegal no matter how many times you lefties type out those words.

      Someone might read the above sentence and perceive you as having the same type of agenda against the left (anyone who doesn’t worship America). Any form of nationalism is requires superiority of one over another that just doesn’t exist.

      I don’t expect anyone to worship America. But Hollywood is intent in slandering America in the same ways that many on the left do: by altering the facts and presenting a story that is distorted and dishonest. As for whether I might have the same type of agenda against the left, I am unsure what you mean by that statement. Explain if you find time and I will let you know if it exists in my head.

      Gone are the days when Hollywood presented movies that portrayed the American spirit as an ideal.

      I assume here you mean the propaganda films during and after wars. John Wayne … the guy who never fought a war but portrayed it so brilliantly (Americans rarely (if ever) portrayed as doing wrong about anything). Principled? We went to war over principle? Here I thought we went to war in the 40’s because Germany declared war on us first (while we already knew about the holocaust) and Japan had to attack us first.

      No I don’t mean the propaganda films. I mean a time when shows such as rawhide or bonanza portrayed and taught the principles of honesty and integrity.

      I didn’t say we went to war over principle. Although you seem to have issue with the US not entering a war until they were directly attacked? I wish to hell we always took such a defensive approach. Which is it. Bush went to war without provocation according to you. And was wrong for doing so. The US waits until it is attacked and you fault them for that as well. When exactly is it acceptable to go to war Chaz? Whenever you deem it so?

      I have no idea if this is true or not, but I sure wouldn’t doubt it for a mili-second. Why would you, USW, suddenly believe whatever the government tells you? That’s a bit of a contradiction, no?

      I am not going to get into this debate. But I don’t rely on believing what the government tells me about WMD’s. I don’t fault you for your statement as you weren’t around SUFA years ago when this debate originally took place. Suffice to say, there is no contradiction. I believe what I believe. It has nothing to do with believing government.

      The little dipshit just went up a few points in my book, but fear not, there are an equal number of dipshits (perhaps older) on the GOP side of the argument who claimed there would be death panels.

      And those on the GOP side were correct. Perhaps death panels wasn’t a good name for it. But rationing was included and there were panels to decide who did and did not get life-saving treatment. I won’t get into this debate either. Those who don’t want to believe what they read in the bill are certainly entitled to make fun of those who read the bill and saw what it says.

      • That is the point, Charlie, those wrongs in Green Zone are not accurate. I guess the reality is that I have grown tired of watching Hollywood make these bullshit movies that attempt to paint George Bush as the devil who couldn’t wait to go to war and was willing to do anything, even lie, to get there. It is inaccurate and dishonest.

        I didn’t see Green Zone and can’t comment, yet I did vote for George Bush twice (much to my discredit) and I’m convinced he lied us into a war (and Congress was dumb enough to let him do so). There are more than enough arguments that convinced me about this. What his intent was may be debatable, but there’s little doubt he didn’t give the public the truth during his push for the Iraq war.

        I didn’t see 9-11. I was way to blind by the attack itself … so blind that I too supported the lies that were used to justify the war with Iraq (two strikes against me). Capitalism, a love story (the truths I mentioned above) are FACTS, USW … I know it’s hard to digest but …

        Not as much with those two, but I surely think it the vast majority of movies. The military is generally portrayed negatively.

        Not as much what? They painted US soldier with a ton of honor in those two movies … made by whackjob lefties, I might add (how cool is that? REAL Patriots on the left–those unafraid to criticize AMERICA when it deserves criticism and not blindly wave flags like some of the fools at Tea Party rallies who can’t friggin’ spell the words on the signs they carry around.

        They complain about capitalism, which enabled their success

        There you go worshipping again … ignoring the flaws. Not everybody who is rich agrees with you or capitalism. I think you’re going to have to deal with that, my friend.

        And the “sweat of the brow” argument is weak at best. You really should drop it from your platform.

        Actually, I keep pointing it out for your sake. You’re the one who uses it like waving a battle flag. Somehow I don’t think many of us sweat all that much for our “hard earned cash” … I know I sweated a lot more as a criminal than I did as a word processor and I was damned good at both (did the work of 2 and sometimes 3 people in WP centers). But sweat … not for a minute.

        Drop illegal from your sentence and I can go along with you. He received Congressional approval. Therefore, the war is not illegal no matter how many times you lefties type out those words.

        Immoral make you feel any better? Us lefties, we’re so uncooth.

        As for whether I might have the same type of agenda against the left, I am unsure what you mean by that statement. Explain if you find time and I will let you know if it exists in my head.

        I know you’re not stupid, USW, but are you that blind as to not see how front loaded just about all of your original posts (never mind the follow-ups) are? I’m talking about aggressive, derogatory verbiage that immediately puts some of your readers (those crazies on the left) at odds. I know I’ve pointed this out a few dozen times in the past. Try arguing from a more neutral corner if you’re looking to convince readers you have something to say other than Fox News talking points (see, that’s an example of it right there). I suspect this is more a right wing flag waving site anyway, so I don’t really think you’d attempt to lessen the vitriol but I doubt there are enough observers for it to matter.

        I mean a time when shows such as rawhide or bonanza portrayed and taught the principles of honesty and integrity.

        I guess you don’t like The Sopranos (depicting something that was real in America … probably enhanced by capitalism too, I might add) … or maybe Sex in the City … or Six Feet Under … or The Wire … you know, shows that deal with some level of reality? Oh, well, to each his own.

        Bush went to war without provocation according to you.

        No, I’m wrong. Iraq was threatening to attack us day in and day out … or was that us threatening to attack Iraq? I’m so confused.

        Are you kidding me? War with Japan was necessary (they attacked us). War with Germany was necessary on principle, but we didn’t get there until they declared war on us. Try and keep up.

        Those who don’t want to believe what they read in the bill are certainly entitled to make fun of those who read the bill and saw what it says.

        Two in a row, that’s convenient. Did you know that Michael Moore did a great service to this country when he held a contest for someone to read Obama’s Health Care paperwork and it was discovered that insurance providers who ignore pre-existing conditions are only fined $100. a day for doing so? Vs. the astronomical cost of hospital care, I’d say that’s a pretty good deal for the capitalists so worried about their insurance profits. Even the crazies on the left wing blogs wouldn’t cover that because it damaged Obama’s “socialist image” …

        And those on the GOP side were correct. Perhaps death panels wasn’t a good name for it.

        If so, why not call a spade a spade? They weren’t death panels and I’m pretty sure you know it … but you do amaze me from time to time so …

        I do love the new format here, by the way. So much easier than all that scrolling we used to do.

  2. Terry Evans says:

    Ever since Matt Damon ranted against Sarah Palin, I swore off watching any of his movies…If I see him, forget it…not watching.

    • Now that’s objective … do you crazies (joking here) on the right realize how hypocritical all this “censoring” is (not joking here)?

      I doubt I agree with a lot of some of Hollywood’s right wing contingent believes, but good movies are good movies and good actors are good actors … same goes for authors, musicians or anybody else in the arts (or anywhere else). Think about it, Terry. Who are you hurting? You’re missing some good works (whether it’s Damon, Moore or whomever). George C. Scott was a marine and very conservative on many issues … I wouldn’t miss a Scott movie with a gun to my head …

      • Charlie,

        “Now that’s objective … do you crazies (joking here) on the right realize how hypocritical all this “censoring” is (not joking here)?”

        You lie. Terry did not call for banning all Matt Damon movies. He expressed his intentions to use free market principals to deny them his viewership, and like USW, his revenue. It’s the same as you not watching Glenn Beck, doesn’t make you a “censor”.

        • Why do you think it is hypocritical for people on the right to censor?

          • Not sure if you’re addressing me, V.H. If so, I am merely “suggesting” that any form of censorship (but ESPECIALLY) self censorship (i.e., I’m not watching this because he’s a lefty or reading that because she’s a lefty, etc.) cheats no one but the person doing the censoring. Of course it’s their perogative to do so, but if I were to hate Wagner for being anti-semetic and refused to listen to him (or General Patton who shit all over my sicilian heritage at every opportunity), I wouldn’t have heard some of the most beautiful music in the history of the world (Wagner) or appreciate a great general (from what I have read and know of the guy–maybe others would disagree). The point being, cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face isn’t a good idea.

        • But I watched Glenn Beck a few times (tried to anyway). I think I made it 10 minutes once … so there.

      • Terry Evans says:

        I am not advocating anyone else follow my lead…that is my stance…I feel no pain from not watching his movies.

      • USWeapon says:

        Where exactly did I censor anyone Charlie? I never called for censorship in any way. I have never done so on any topic.

        Personally, I will forego a movie if I want to deny my dollars to that director/actor. I will not purchase an album if I want to deny my money to that artist. That is my choice as a consumer. That is how the market works. No wonder the free market doesn’t work in your opinion. Consumer choice is the same as censorship in your eyes…

        • I was speaking to the open minded approach, USW (which is probably why you can’t grasp it). You can learn and/or enjoy anything in this life if you free yourself up a little. There are Jewish opera fans who won’t listen to Wagner becuase of his anti-semetic writings … of course it is their choice to do whatever they want, but there’s no denying the beauty they cheat themselves of not hearing some of his music. While I personally wouldn’t equate Matt Damon to Wagner, I’m sure there are people who might like his movies/performances if they gave themselves the chance. I’m not endorsing the guy or any Hollywood movie, just pointing out that when you close your eyes to something (for whatever reason) you cheat yourself, nobody else. You hold back money from a director, etc., you say. I say you cheat yourself of “maybe” seeing a different point of view (or just a good film, song, book, etc.) … it’s stupid.

          • USWeapon says:

            But you missed what I actually do. I haven’t boycotted all of Matt Damon’s movies. I saw the trailer for that one and decided that I wouldn’t give my money to a movie that looked to be somewhat anti-American. When it didn’t mean giving that director money, I did watch the movie, start to finish, and enjoyed Damon’s acting and gave some time to think over the premise.

            I will give you a similar example. I don’t buy music from the Fugees or Lauryn Hill. She said in an interview that she would rather her children starve than have white people buy her albums. Some of the music is good. When it comes on the radio, I listen and enjoy. But I refuse to drop a single dollar that will make its way back to her bank account. I don’t support racists when I can help it.

            I would never dream of censoring anyone. Look a little further back in the articles and you will find that despite the fact that I despise them, I even argued for the free speech rights of Westboro Baptist Church. But I do have a right as a consumer to choose not to contribute my money to artists that I disagree with. If I can watch them for free later, I will. I have watched all of Michael Moore’s movies. I have watched all of Clooney’s movies. I have watched all of DePalma’s movies. I have watched all of Penn’s movies. But I watch them all when they play for free on TV or some other opportunity presents itself. I don’t deny myself any experience or point of view. I simply don’t contribute to the bank accounts of those who I don’t wish to support. In the same way I don’t imagine that you will be paying money to watch any movie that Glen Beck may produce or shell out your hard earned cash to see the Palin nonsense. And I would not begrudge you for it (in fact I am with you, I wouldn’t pay for it either, those are also accounts I don’t wish to pad).

            As for the examples you provide. Jews that eschew a man’s music are, in my opinion, foolish. At this point, the man is dead and won’t benefit from their listening to it, so they are simply missing phenomenal musical genius. But to each his own.

            I am OK if you want to bash my opinions or my positions. Just make sure that you are bashing what my position really is. That is the one complaint that I have had with you on several occasions. You assume my position, or say that I think the same thing BF does, or expand on what I say which changes the meaning or my position, and then attack that. And this is a good example. You spent several paragraph’s attacking me as foolish for missing good things or denying myself alternative viewpoints, when that wasn’t my position at all.

            • I don’t deny myself any experience or point of view

              Good man! That’s my point … don’t deny yourself something of “potential” value for political (or any other) reasons.

              BF and I are probably closer than you and BF … except for our motives, I think we’re pretty close.

            • I disagree. Michael Moore is a liar. Almost as big a liar as Obama. His movies are little more than attempts to make a case by linking together things that shouldn’t be, taking “artisitic license” with reality, and completely ignoring facts that get in the way of his agenda. His bullshit 9/11 movie wasn’t art, wasn’t anywhere near a documentary, and should have tanked both his career and his credibility. Instead, idiots without the ability to use critical thinking skills gave him the cash to produce more trash.

              I went back up and copied the above out. That’s a pretty loaded statement (above). I think Ayn Rand is a pantload as far as comic books go (never mind literature). I agree with William F. Buckley’s assessment … ” I had to flog myself to read it.” Yet I read it … and Fountainhead (which I thought was by far better but not good enough to be anywhere near worshipped). The point being … I now feel comfortable dissing Ayn Rand … but I will see the movie when it comes out (I heard they’re doing AS in, dare I say it, Hollywood — imagine?). I won’t pay for it either though … I also don’t go to the movies anymore. Netflix rules … or I do as you do and wait … but even for movies I might like. It’s just too expensive to get ripped off in theatres anymore.

            • @USW – on this Lauryn Hill thing:

              http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lauryn.asp

  3. Interesting article, USW. What I find amusing is that so many believe what Hollywood puts out. I did not think that many people did. I have never looked at Hollywood as anything but entertainment….most of it bad. But there are some good movies out there. Hollywood is entertainment only driven at a particular audience. They take poetic license……..very liberally. However, my opinion is going to be skewed greatly. I do not go to movies…..for two reasons. (1) The cost of getting in even on matinees and (2) how can you go to a movie WITHOUT popcorn and a drink which takes a loan in order to buy it. I confess to waiting until the reviews are finished and it comes out on DVD or on the movie channels.

    So to those who believe that Hollywood is factual…..get a life.

    ” As a result, American soldiers are presented as uneducated rednecks just looking for a chance to “kill ragheads” and abuse innocent foreign nationals under the guise of war.” There is only one answer to this, USW……unless they have “been there”***** they have no say.

    **** Been there does not mean imbedded media and writers who spend a week. They can claim to have been there but they have not.

    What bothers me the most, is that the media and Hollywood and the really far out lefties (Pelosi, Reid,et al) all claim that Bush lied about the WMD’s and that is the ONLY lie that they point to. Obama has lied about things far worse than this. and has kept to wars going and started a third and is about to start a fourth……..and has told tenfold the number of lies……and he gets a free pass. But that is the way it is going to be. I have a ton of left sided friends and they don’t even buy the Bush lied propaganda. It is worn out. I might add that 8 of 10 are not voting Obama…they are voting conservative no matter who runs. I find this interesting.

    On the Iraqi General or General’s……I would not believe any of them if they said that day was light and night was dark. That side of the world is not to be trusted no matter how many flags they wave.

    Oh….Charlie, the Canoli Man,,,,,I must take a parting shot….I mean you would think I was mad at you if I let you go unscathed for two weeks….it is time worn but “death panels” = “end of life counseling”…..how do I know? I am going through that now with my parents and Medicare personnel. (BTW, How are you, sir?)

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      @D13 – good morning Colonel – I am without Red Bull this a.m. so I am a little slow…..

      I’m at a loss as to what that property/value is to say:

      Bush Lies < Obama Lies

      Based on what?

      How about dead American soldiers?

      The "Bush Lie" is a lie until there is evidence to the contrary. That lie is directly responsible for casualties that far exceed any lie from the current POTUS related to the same variable.

      There was a case presented as facts – when the evidence failed to support the facts then the case becomes a lie (or call it something similar if you may). We cannot then look at the status of the "case" and assign it as "propaganda" – there are not omitted facts to this case that allow it to become as such. It is no more propaganda than to assert a factual position with regards to 8/4/64 (The Tonkin Ghost Ships).

      • Dead American Soldiers is a travesty…….continuing dead American soldiers is travesty part deux…..untruths do not pertain to ONLY dead american soldiers…..and Congress went along with it…. 77-23 in the Senate…296 to 133 in the House….and Bush went and asked approval….Obama has not nor did the democratically controlled house and senate stop anything. NOr is the Republican HOuse stopping anything. The lie….is washington.

        Plenty of evidence that they all saw…..I am at a loss as to why it is a Bush fault when our form of govt could have stopped him….cold. But this argument is long past…….at least Bush went to Congress….Obama has not….and will not and no one will stop him……more American deaths and more coming.

        Stay off the RB…too hot for that.

    • I have never looked at Hollywood as anything but entertainment

      Way to go, Colonel! Good afternoon, sir. I think that’s all it really is … it’s up to individuals to decide if what they just saw is part of the great Leftist propaganda machine … oy vey

    • Colonel, did you see my invite the other day? I cooked eggplant parmagiana (from scratch), rigatoni and sausage and peppers for some friends. You were invited. I’m doing fine, sir.

      • I just saw it sir and thanks….have been out of pocket a lot….fire in Los Alamos area where we have some property and the border, of course. But back among the semi comatose for awhile….yanking your chain.

  4. Haven’t been to a movie in years. Get enough propaganda free without having to pay to go see it.

  5. First, one must separate these two – different – concepts.

    America.
    The US government.

    Being “anti-US government” does not equal being “anti-American” – indeed, it can be said to be “pro-American”!

    That mistake is very common and very dangerous – to align one’s self with the actions of government to be equal to the actions of the People. This mistake allows evil to flourish, for it prevents all opportunity of arresting evil by merely stating that the massive complaints of the acts of horror by government is “anti-American”, and thereby forcing the People to either be against themselves (anti-American) or supporting massive violent horror,destruction and evil.

    Second, gee! I have to see this movie!
    Evil Mercantilist Corporations – check!
    Evil lying Government – check!
    MSM propaganda machine – check!
    Matt Damon – check!

    • “Being “anti-US government” does not equal being “anti-American” – indeed, it can be said to be “pro-American”!”

      Yes Sir………btw…how are you feeling since your tumble….

      • Elbow still quite stiff.

        My time now, however, is mostly spent helping a family member recover from a severe accident – suffered an obliterated shoulder, neck broken in two places (but no paralysis), and severe brain trauma.

        But he is doing well considering, he is slowly “waking up” behind his eyes, though his short term memory hovers around “0%” – the shoulder was reconstructed, but that will be a permanent disability, and his neck is stable.

  6. Ray Hawkins says:

    Um – wow….

    and to think The Hurt Locker won an Oscar in 2009 as the Best Picture

    and to think I grew up thinking Chewbacca was real, that Great White Sharks do patrol all beaches looking to make me their next meal or that John Rambo really did rescue a camp of POWs that had been held in Vietnam for 10/15 years….

    and to think my parents and grandparents could have grown up watching the Cleavers or Little Rascals or even the wonderfully scandalous Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers vehicle The Gay Divorcee and know that what was being depicted was fantasy and NOT reality…..

    and to think that it is inconceivable that any conservative worth his or her weight in salt (of the Earth of course) could never be swayed away from fact by Fox News/Washington Times/WSJ/WND/etc – because hey – it isn’t about entertainment any more – its only NOW come about as trying to also deliver a message. Everything pre-Michael Moore we wouldn’t describe as “art” – art has the annoying property of sometimes conveying a message or view, in the pre-MM days we could equally call the material documentary – telling the story as it aligns to an understanding of what a real American is with a little entertaining thrown in for good measure until you got home for the slice of apple pie.

    I don’t know how big a “swath” is of Americans – but I’m guessing is the same size/number of folks who flocked to the The Undefeated?

    • Wait………………….Chewbacca isn’t real?…………..Damn,

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        I think I woke up next to a Chewbacca back in college days – turns out I drank too much really bad tequila.

    • The Hurt Locker was a good movie. It was presented through the eyes of a soldier. USW is saying that Hollywood is putting their slant on things .Examples:Redacted and In the Valley of Elah, both portraying our troops in Iraq as murderers (back off BF). And Rendition where our govt allows innocent muslims to be tortured.Those three movies bombed at the box office, thank God. You can’t deny that Hollywood is out to put a bad name on our military. But in the end they lost, common sense won.

      • Just to be the Devil’s Advocate for a moment:

        Doesn’t the fact that those movies bombed belie the idea made above that Americans believe the propaganda (just using the word that expresses the idea postulated) out of Hollywood?

        Just wondering…………………… 🙂

        And good day to all!

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          Good point – from the numbers we’d expect Harry Potter to be more of a threat than what USW is after. Watch out Harry!

        • Doesn’t the fact that those movies bombed belie the idea made above that Americans believe the propaganda

          Yes, Plainly, but we here at SUFA must remain ever vigilant against the communist aggressors on the left coast.

          Sweet Jesus, could some of you be a little more paranoid?

          • Charlie, forgive me. PARANOID MY ASS More like sick and tired of America being made to look like shit. Real life events in the USA are bad enough. Aren’t there better ideas to make movies about? Are you saying these types of movies are OK?

            • Anita, my love … your always forgiven.

              I’m saying who cares what movies anybody makes? And why ignore everything you disagree with? I haven’t seen any of the movies claimed to have blemished America (Redacted?, etc.). I’ll assume they aren’t as one-sided as is suggested here, but even if they are, if you don’t buy into it, you’re safe all on your own. Precluding oneself from seeing another point of view is cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face … and it’s silly.

              I am not a great Michael Moore fan myself (mostly because he caves in when push comes to shove like most so-called liberal democrats) but not everything he says is a lie (that’s just absurd to assume so). America has deep rooted problems that aren’t going away because we ignore them. There are writers, directors, actors, musicians, etc., who chose to speak to the social and political issues of the day. It’s everybody’s free choice to ignore them, but do you really do yourself a service by ignoring everything you don’t agree with?

              You don’t ignore me and I bring sunshine almost every day to your world, right? (when I post Doc’s attacks on me …) Admit it, you love it …:)

              The avoiding at all costs Terry and USW (suggested) approach above is a bit childish, is my point. I wouldn’t worry about Hollywood dumping on America. I’d worry about America falling apart all on its own.

              • Terry Evans says:

                Charlie, you say “Precluding oneself from seeing another point of view is cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face … and it’s silly. ” I don’t disagree, but not going to watch the remake of True Grit is not precluding oneself from seeing another point of view. I have seen the guys point of view and I disagree…thus I refuse to contribute to his livelihood. Nothing more, nothing less.

            • Anita,
              Does HR 4646 ring a bell? Maybe just a little PARANOID?

              • Earth to Todd. What is your point? The two have nothing to do with each other, including paranoia.

              • Anita,
                Yesterday you posted the email hoax about HR 4646. Did it ever occur to you to take 2 minutes and do a search on that? While HR 4646 is a real bill, the way it’s presented in the email is a complete hoax. But you WANT to believe that it’s true – another thing Obama is doing to destroy America. Seems a little PARANOID to me – and not exactly the “Find out the Truth” motto you guys are always spouting about here.

                And as far as “America being made to look like shit” – don’t you guys do that here almost everyday? Predicting America is going down the toilet, going to collapse soon?

                Is it Ok when you guys make America look like shit, but not Ok when Hollywood does it?

  7. Has Hollywood ever sold us on a story that wasn’t true?

    they have been told to believe the ­opposite in a Hollywood movie. But the fact of the matter is that there has never been evidence of a ­“cancer excess” in Hinkley.’

    Asked for his opinion of Erin Brockovich, he replied: ‘I don’t think she is a bad person, but nor does she have the training that allows her to make the assumptions she made.’
    Wrong? A new survey by the California Cancer ­Registry and its key, controversial finding that the number of people diagnosed with cancer in the ­Hinkley area between 1996 and 2008 was not only not excessive

    Wrong? A new survey by the California Cancer ­Registry and its key, controversial finding that the number of people diagnosed with cancer in the ­Hinkley area between 1996 and 2008 was not only not excessive

    It would be difficult to imagine a more damning assessment of Erin Brokovich’s crusade in Hinkley, a crusade for which she was handsomely rewarded. Brokovich got a $2.5 million (more than £1.5 million) bonus for her work.

    But Professor Morgan’s survey is not the only scientific research to undermine her assertions. The ­California Environmental Protection Agency recently ruled that there is no evidence that Chromium 6 (widely used as an anti-corrosive) in water is dangerous.

    Yes, it is a known carcinogen — but only when inhaled (as steam, say), not when inadvertently ingested in small quantities.

    The Hinkley case did not go to trial. It was settled out of court, so there is no public record of the proceedings.

    ‘PG&E settled without taking it to trial because the publicity wasn’t good for business,’ said Dr Elizabeth Whelan, president of the American Council on Science and Health, a consumer education group specialising in public health.

    It is, perhaps, no coincidence that Hinkley is not the only case that Brockovich has handled that raises doubts about her reputation and credibility as an environmental campaigner.

    She has subsequently spearheaded a string of high-profile lawsuits against other companies that have been unsuccessful once tested in court. In 2003, for example, she alleged oil wells under the campus of Beverly Hills High School were spewing another carcinogen — ­benzene — causing cancer among students and staff.

    A judge ordered her to hand over the data on which her assertions were based and found the evidence did not hold up. The lawsuit against the oil companies that operated the wells was dismissed.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1343559/Was-Erin-Brockovich-single-mother-claimed-towns-water-poisoned-wrong.html#ixzz1T86qCDaU

  8. Ray Hawkins says:

    @Anita – do you believe that Rendition was based on true events?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri

    Also recall that there was a second storyline (the policeman’s daughter and her terrorist boyfriend) – that didn’t exactly show Muslims in a great light.

    I’m not familiar with the other two stories.

    What are your thoughts on Black Hawk Down?

    • Black Hawk Down- A situation FUBAR for sure. What started as good intentions-take out a couple warlords, which they accomplished, turned deadly for our side. The real focus of the move was the bravery of our guys, their willingness to take on the challenge even as they feared for their own lives. As with Hurt Locker it was presented through the eyes of the soldiers.
      Rendition- You have wiki on it..was it right? Absolutely not. But is it right for Hollywood to make as though that’s SOP? No.
      I also have not see the other movies but I remember as they both came out (in the same year if I’m correct) thinking WTH? These guys (hollywood) are idiots Just keep piling it on guys. Laugh all the way to the bank, while you get to sleep tight at night because the same guys your making a joke out of have your back to the end. Yeah, well..the movies flopped, as well they should have.

      I also remember that as Redacted and In the Valley of Elah and Rendition were flopping guess what was jamming? High School Musical! YAY! A feel good, All American movie. That’s what the audience was after, not smear campaigns on our military. Calll me Pollyanna all you want, I’ll take High School Musical anyday..

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        @Anita – I read Bowden’s book and saw the movie (Black Hawk Down). I’ve also read other accounts, including, very recently, Howard Wasdin’s account (Wasdin was a Seal Team Six operator who was severely wounded). I knew one of the Delta guys who died and heard many stories from a former co-worker’s brother who was in 10th Mountain Division.

        So what right?

        Some creative license was/likely was taken with this film also. A recurring theme I read and was told was the colossal problems in communication between ground forces and birds that were flying high above. I am convinced that contributed directly to American casualties (and to a larger extent, the horrific b.s. from Washington ). The Comm issues are only addressed imho in the film. Little treatment is given corruption of the U.N. – and specifically to the Italians. My only point is that creative license is used all the time – even when the outcome is favorable.

        I never viewed Rendition as being posed as representative of the entirety of how captured/suspected terrorists are treated. I looked at it very narrowly as someone telling me a story and me reflecting…..holy crap……it really sucks that we do shit like this to perhaps innocent people. I don’t know how that story is told so that the U.S. looks good, clean and wholesome.

        Maybe its a good sign that feel good movies outperformed. I am increasingly lost when the cooler talk comes to movies. I’m at that point in life where any movie I watch will involve animated characters – even when the kids are in bed I’ve got no gas left to sit through a 2 – 2.5 hr movie (most all movies suck nowadays anyway).

        • Many times after the kids were in bed and I was closing up shop in the house for the night- I would realize after an hour and a half that Thomas the Tank Engine or Lion King was still playing! It’s all good! 🙂

          • Ray Hawkins says:

            @Anita – thanks for the laugh!!! – Saturday night I caught myself in a dazed stupor “watching” Elmo’s Potty Time which was on continuous play.

          • One of the characters in one of my books (Cheapskates) saw The Lion King, like, twenty-something times ….

            I won’t see it because there were no fat lions (I heard) … and that pisses me off!

            • OMG. It was my daughter’s favorite movie. I saw it at least 120 something times. Hey Charlie, You could be Pumbaa, the warthog.

  9. 😐

  10. Ray Hawkins says:

    The more I’ve thought about it – the more “off” this article feels….

    Consider this:

    “Gone are the days when Hollywood presented movies that portrayed the American spirit as an ideal. There are no more John Wayne type movies that present Americans as principled, value-driven, and fair.”

    Try this – pull up a list of the all the Best Picture nominees from the last 10 years (easy to find on Wiki) – there is ample evidence that we have an abundance of films that celebrate the American spirit (or the spirit of man) and give us enough connective tissue to feel like we’re watching characters that are principled, value-driven and fair.

    Was Green Zone a propaganda movie? I seriously doubt it. It was supposedly based on a work of non fiction and I’m not aware if the statements USW is in a tizzy about are in the book or were added for the movie.

    As for others like “Redacted” – seems to me this also a movie based on actual events – not sure how you make a movie about soldiers raping and murdering a girl and do it in a light favorable to the military?

    In considering Redacted along with Casualties of War – perhaps DePalma is asking us to think pretty deep and hard about the effects of combat and stress on our young folks we send to theater? Maybe the decision to send our soldiers into battle takes on tougher scrutiny when we see and consider the effects it can have on some of them (whom otherwise may have never conceptualized the brutal things they ended up doing?). The “good” isn’t good unless it can be viewed in the light of the bad that also happens – it is that which helps gives us perspective.

    • I got sidetracked during my reply above so it took a while to finish it. I agree with much of what you say here but in the end I still think Hollywood is out to make a bad name for our military and our country. Luckily the people can make their own choice whether to donate to the cause or not.

    • Try this – pull up a list of the all the Best Picture nominees from the last 10 years (easy to find on Wiki) – there is ample evidence that we have an abundance of films that celebrate the American spirit (or the spirit of man) and give us enough connective tissue to feel like we’re watching characters that are principled, value-driven and fair.

      Ray … you’re so crazy … and on the left … how dare you?
      🙂

    • It seems to me the point in all this-is that by shear numbers and admitted bias against those with conservative views-the left has an overwhelming avenue to push their views in Hollywood. When the ability of those of different viewpoints is limited by direct actions of the industry- than the outlet becomes a political weapon or is/can become a form of propaganda.

      • Propaganda from the left (Democrats)/Propaganda from the right (Republicans).

        Six of one; half a dozen of the other.

        The money backing both comes from pretty much the same sources; one with a slightly more fair/greedy approach.

        End result is everybody fights on blogs like this and elsewhere for their perceived side and the money laughs all the way to the bank … while mostly middle class and poor kids are sent off to die in wars we have no business in … while the middle class and poor are demonized for wanting a fair deal (I can hear the backlash now) … and while the money continues laughing all the way to the bank.

        You really think not going to a movie will bring down Hollywood and/or the progressive movement? If so, here’s a suggestion … read Ayn Rand … over and over and over again … until you believe in that fantasy just a little bit more than you already do …. keep reading it and ignore the rest of the culture that surrounds you … one day it’ll be your last and you can die with an Ayn Rand smile on your face. You’ll have missed a lot this life has to offer, but you’ll go down smiling …:)

        • Terry Evans says:

          No, I harbor no illusion that not going to a movie will bring down the progressive movement. But that does not preclude me from not making a donation.

          • But it does preclude you from “maybe” seeing something you enjoy. And if that’s not cutting your nose to spite your face, I don’t know what is. But be my guest, signore …

        • If I thought it was six of one and a half a dozen of the other-you wouldn’t hear a word out of me. Did you go off on a rant or just putting words in my mouth 🙂 But I’ll repeat your words in a different way-you hear over and over and over again through TV shows and movies that global warming is the cause for every disaster-you are being slowly taught to believe this-so you won’t even question the premise.

          • I agree, V.H., that people are swayed mightily by what they see on television, etc., but isn’t that something we all owe to ourselves to research for ourselves? If you only view one side of the story, you make that difficult. If 6 shows in a row give false information about global warming, for example, that doesn’t mean the 7th will also. Also, the chances the first 6 shows will give false information are pretty remote. What we used to say on the street (and I’m sure is still said) is there are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth. The problem is if you shut yourself off to one side or the other, you never come close to the truth. USW suggesting that Michael Moore is a liar (everything he does is a lie) is just wrong. I didn’t see 9-11. I did see Capitalism, A Love Story. I’m sure he played with some of the facts but what he couldn’t play with was very telling about how money runs this country. There isn’t an argument to make there. Congress did have a closed session to vote for the bailout (after being halted by voters calling in for them not to do so their first try) and they did write out any chance for judicial review of the bailout. Congress and the President(s) both gave that money over without any strings attached. Facts … from Michael Moore …

            • Fine Charlie-I disagree with little you say-but as far as Moore-he is free to say whatever he wants, I’m sure beyond any doubt that USW agrees with this statement-the only requirement I have is if one is going to argue that Moore is a liar-they should have actually listened to Moore-Moore not clips of his statements-and I suspect that USW has done so- As far as the rest-you are missing my point. Hollywood is from all reports discriminating against conservatives-denying them the right to WORK because of their political views so they can spread their own political views and live out their hate. And yes we all should research for ourselves but children watching TV probably aren’t gonna do that and alot of the message is subtle. And the other point is that since Hollywood is overwhelmingly liberal-most shows are going to claim global warming is the cause.

              The answer-stop the discrimination-then whatever comes out of hollywood is just someones opinion and they have the right to their opinion. But if you are stopping another from voicing an opposite opinion than it is a whole different story.

              • Hollywood is from all reports discriminating against conservatives-denying them the right to WORK because of their political views so they can spread their own political views and live out their hate.

                I would note that we should not forget when the shoe was on the other foot, meaning the Hollywood blacklisting of the late 40’s from the “investigations” by the HUAC against “Hollywood radicals” (meaning Communists/leftists etc). It doesn’t make any of this right, whether it is a formal or informal blacklisting. It may be that the pendulum swings more to the liberal side at the moment and the conservatives will have another go at some point in the future (because for danged sure there will never be a truce in the “war” for the minds of the people).

                http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/blacklist.html

                The entertainment industry has those who push their points of view through their work, on both sides. It isn’t in every piece of work they do and for sure it depends on the viewer’s points of view as to whether it’s a good work or propaganda.

                To each his own, and Terry is right is saying that if you don’t agree with the what they do – don’t pass along your cash to them. Choice reins supreme, even if you might be missing a good story.

                Also, some may feel – as I do – that I will pick and choose what works I watch or don’t from different entertainers. The only one I have almost completely boycotted in my life was Jane Fonda (except for “On Golden Pond” since her father and Katharine Hepburn (two of my favorites) were stars in the movie. What views an actor, director, producer, etc personally has or pushes is something we all might likely do if we had the ability to do so.

                Wait, we do………….right here. 🙂

              • Duly noted 🙂 , but with due respect, totally irrelevant-If I remember correctly the outcry was pretty loud in the 40’s and still today against the blacklisting. I may well, be able to choose what I do and do not want to watch-and that is sufficient for the watching public-but it is not sufficient for the people who are being discriminated against. Other than making an issue of it by shining a light on the unfairness and the individuals involved right to try and prove it and fight it in court-I do not and don’t push for any other laws to control it.

              • Not any more irrelevant than now. Yes there were loud voices against it, and just as many loud voices (along with a silent “majority”) that supported removing the communist influences from our society.

                There are voices railing against such behavior now (as LOI’s posting supports) against trying to remove the conservative influences from society as well.

                All I was pointing out is that it has, is and will occur on one side or the other. The pendulum swings. There is no righteousness in either side blacklisting anyone. Wrong is wrong.

                Also, if people want to believe what others think is propaganda – so be it. It happens. People believe many different things, from extraterrestrials secretly in human form walking among our population (many of whom are likely elected officials of government 😉 ) to the idea that the Mayans figured out the date for the end of the world.

              • We must fight against wrong when we see it-is my point-the loud voices are necessary, they are not irrelevant-just because it continues to happen. Nothing allows evil to grow more than silence.

              • I don’t disagree with you at all. Silence allows evil to triumph.

                Yet, I also wonder how many of those on the left who are voicing their views believe they are fighting evil?

                Just a thought……………

              • I suspect -we agree. 🙂 Just somehow pushing different points that seem to contradict each other. I’m fairly sure most/all of us believe we are fighting for what is right-but as BF always harps on-the means matter.

              • One other thing-I don’t believe it is “propaganda” because other people believe it-I believe it becomes propaganda when people use underhanded means as a weapon to push their views while silencing opposing views.

              • denying them the right to WORK because of their political views so they can spread their own political views and live out their hate.

                Sounds like reverse McCarthyism … except i don’t know your version to be true and I do know McCarthyism was true.

                Propaganda as underhanded methods … like “death panels”?

              • Okay-you don’t know it’s true-I’m not sure what it would take to convince you. As far as propaganda-I think I’ve taken a little license with the word-to try and make my point. But Death Panels as underhanded-hmm-I will give you that it is a button pushing phrase that was meant to evoke emotion -but I also believe there was alot of truth in the statement-I suppose whether one believes it is underhanded or just an exaggeration depends on how much truth one finds in them. But it sure wasn’t discrimination.

  11. For America!

  12. http://www.wtfnoway.com/

    The size of the “problem” visually described.

  13. For Terry (True Grit): I don’t disagree, but not going to watch the remake of True Grit is not precluding oneself from seeing another point of view.

    But you might not see a good movie (depending on whether or not you like it). He’s already been paid, so don’t sweat Mr. Damon out. I saw both, thought the newer version all around better but nobody beats the Duke in that final scene. Had a big argument with the wife over this one (she’s one of those liberal dems too) … I preferred Duck’s “Fill your hands, you son-of-a-bitch” anyday.

    Point being: You might cut yourself off from seeing a really good movie and for what?

  14. So USWeapon,
    You don’t like the “Green Zone” or other movies that paint the US military in an unfavorable light?
    You prefer “shows such as rawhide or bonanza portrayed and taught the principles of honesty and integrity.”

    How “honest” are shows like rawhide or bonanza? I’d say they’re a bigger lie than “Green Zone”.

    This issue has come up before. You don’t like it when the US military is portrayed in an unfavorable light. But you’re more than happy to disparage and disrespect anyone that you disagree with. Comments like “Almost as big a liar as Obama.”

    Do you think some of our elected officials and government employees might take offense at your unsubstantiated accusations?

    • Major GROOOAN! Do you have a problem with honesty and integrity? You’re reaching here Todd.

      • It’s not a reach Anita. As Charlie said, USWeapon’s “front loaded” statements throw out honesty and integrity from the start.

    • Todd, I was tempted to look up Rawhide and Bonanza to see if they pissed on American Indians (intentionally or not) but didn’t want to bother. I know that people like Ward Churchill might know best. Either way, whether those two are as loaded with propaganda as some others (left or right), I try pointing out to USW all the time about those “front loaded” statements he makes (Almost as big a liar as Obama). Now, I’m no fan of Obama (or any democrat other than Bernie Sanders) and I do think they’re all bought and paid for (almost to the last one), but it is pretty impossible to begin a debate about anything when the initial post shits all over it’s presumed counter argument. USW does that almost every post. Then makes statements akin to Michael Moore always lies. That’s just absurd. I am curious about Rawhide and Bonanza now that someone else has brought it up. I’ll go take a look-see when I get back from picking the wife up.

      • No picking on Bonanza – my wife likes that show. 🙂

        • Plainly,

          You know, I thought I like that show too.

          Then we got all the Bonanza’s old TV shows.

          They are really Communist Manifesto vs Evil Capitalists indoctrination shows…. with early Communist Environmentalism thrown in….

          Amazing how the same show appears different once you age.

          • My wife isn’t 30 yet – so to her it’s just entertainment. 🙂

            • 🙂

              …and they don’t make them like they use to….

              I still have the shows regardless …. 🙂 and Gilligan’s Island, Beverly Hillbillies….

              • They sure don’t. Besides those I would include Gunsmoke, Green Acres, Maverick, and the old detective shows (Barnaby Jones, Cannon, Rockford Files).

                It would be one long list if I thought of them all. 🙂

                Plus I enjoy listening (when I can) to the old radio serial shows. I got hooked on those when I lived in SoCal and they played on a local radio station every night.

              • USWeapon says:

                XM Radio still does them and I love them as well. Ahhh, the list of old shows. I could bring up a few I loved. Perhaps that will be a thread soon to break the monotony.

          • USWeapon says:

            Wow… I am going to have to go back and watch them as an older and more critical viewer. Please don’t tell me that Gunsmoke was the same way….

        • Plainlyspoken,
          I’m not picking on Bonanza – I like all those old shows too! But they all paint a pretty picture and gloss over the issues of the day. Except for Gilligan’s Island of course – the first ever Reality TV show!! 🙂

          • I know you’re not. I said it to toss out something to chuckle over.

            I would agree that shows like those pushed points of view or, as you stated, glossed over issues of the day (not necessarily in every episode either). The biggest thing going for them is they’re pretty tame and clean and I don’t worry over my daughter watching them. Okay, I like them as well…….they’re still better entertainment than a lot of the stuff classified as entertainment shows today.

            If we went through a serious study of television programming since its inception I would be willing to wager there were a lot of points of view being put before audiences, some subtle and some not so subtle. Personal Opinion Follows: I doubt it took long for any professionals in the industry to figure out the power of the visual radio box and started experimenting just what they could do with it.

            BTW – I agree about Gilligan’s Island.

      • Charlie,
        I agree. I have plenty of issues with Obama and the Democrats, but trying to discuss them isn’t possible when the conversation starts with such comical statements.

        • Todd, Bingo. That is USW’s major fault in writing his posts. He attacks before he makes a single point. Then he states his attacks as “facts” (and actually uses the word way too much without proving a thing). It is the major flaw with their rational thinking approach. There are assumptions BF and USW make (i.e., BF states: the free market would work in a government free society). He uses rational thinking to “prove his point” … but there’s no way to know and history suggests the opposite; that in a government free society chaos would reign. So it goes.

    • Last week, for the first time, Hollywood openly acknowledged that it has a discrimination problem against conservatives.

      As The Hollywood Reporter reported, the Caucus for Producers, Writers & Directors, a major industry insider honor society, passed a resolution in the wake of revelations springing from my book.

      The resolution amended the organization’s charter to stand against discrimination based on “political ideology.” It was approved unanimously; only a few weeks after the Caucus refused to pass such a resolution, claiming that it was a “non-partisan” organization and therefore could not stand against political discrimination.

      What prompted the reversal?

      Public pressure from the Caucus’ conservative members, who resigned from the Caucus after one of its top members, was caught on tape stating that he was happy conservatives are blacklisted in Hollywood. Lionel Chetwynd, multiple Emmy nominee and Oscar-nominated screenwriter of The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, and Norman Powell, producer of 24 and former CBS Television executive, walked out of the Caucus.

      At first, the Caucus stonewalled. That’s no surprise – in Hollywood, discrimination against conservatives is an accepted way of doing business.

      I called “All in the Family” creator Norman Lear, for example, who also co-founded the Caucus and the First Amendment liberal organization People for the American Way, asking him to join in the fight against political discrimination in Hollywood. He pretended no such discrimination existed. He asked me to name the names of those who discriminated – an odd request from such an ardent opponent of McCarthyism. He then refused to accept the names I did give him, and told me that he’d call me back on the subject after doing some research. Three weeks later, I’m still waiting.

      But inside the Caucus, members were standing up for political openness. Greg Strangis, producer of “Eight is Enough” and “Falcon Crest,” among others, insisted that the Caucus take up the resolution. He also penned a statement that the Caucus approved, supporting the ideal that the TV industry embrace a “diverse pool of talented men and women working in an open, free and supportive environment,” including “the American tradition of free speech.”

      The Caucus finally caved and accepted what they should have accepted all along: that discrimination based on political orientation is wrong.

      Now, Powell, Chetwynd and Strangis – and I – will be petitioning the Writers Guild, the Directors Guild, the Producers Guild, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, and the Academy of Television Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, for similar resolutions.

      Resolutions won’t solve the problem. But they will serve as a great start toward Hollywood imposing a higher moral standard on itself: the standard of free speech they were always supposed to embrace.

      Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/07/13/hollywood-finally-admits-it-discriminates-against-conservatives-could-this-be/#ixzz1T9ttULEW

  15. HEY!

    How come I can’t reply to Plainlyspoken above? Does this new format only allow the discussion to go so far? Talk about censorship! 🙂

    • Yep and several other boxes have no reply button. Where’s the maintenance man?

    • Go ahead and reply right here Anita – I’ll see it. 🙂

      • 🙂 It wasn’t really any biggie. Was just going to jab that you seem to be switching sides on us today!

        • lol. no problem. Because I do agree with points of view from both sides (hence many, many years being a moderate) I get poked at for that kind of thing. Poke away. 😀

          But seriously though, I have always stood against extremism (not that this thread has been extremist in nature) and am one of those people who brings the idea that the truth is somewhere in the middle into my beliefs (though I too can be considered to hasve some extremist ideas – dependent on one’s views). Makes it easy for me to confuse people (not intentionally) on my “ideology”.

  16. Just my general 2 cents. I saw the movie. My response to it as to the quality of the entertainment value – “eh.”

    Was there a point of view being pushed? I think so. But then there was a point of view being pushed in The Green Berets too.

  17. I am probably stealing tomorrow’s thunder but I was wonder what people’s opinions of tonights dueling speechs are. In terms of substance, I thought Boehner did a much better, more convincing job than Obama did. It was clear that Obama is more interested in reelection than in solving the debt/spending problem.

    • Obama went out there like a total wimp and Boehner put his foot up Obama’s ass. Will it make a difference? This is all dog and pony show. In the end, big money will get what it wants no matter which “side” is determined to be the winner. Obama has proved he is as spineless as he is incompetent. The in-house fighting with the GOP proves my contention that so-called “liberal” Democrats do themselves a HUGE disservice by being lemmings to the party of their choice. They fall in line without threatening to do with the tea party did (buck those they were opposed to). It’s all okay, though … so long as the tea party speaks for billionaires, we get a little closer to a depression that will finally cause a workers revolution (because we’ll all be out of work and have nothing else to do anyway) …:)

  18. Charlie,

    ; that in a government free society chaos would reign

    Yes it would!

    But you think that is a “bad” thing – because you do not understand chaos. Chaos is NOT disorder – it is unpredictable order.
    Chaos always wins because it is so much better organized is a famous physics and math saying.

    Here is chaos visually:

    There is an observed pattern, but no one can predict where the next dot and its color will appear when the drawing is being created. It is infinitely scalable – that is, on any scale whether magnified by 1 million or microscopic by 1/1,000,000 – the entire ‘pattern’ is completely observed.

    In human term, chaos is walking down a crowded street.
    There is no “traffic cop” forcing people to walk this way or that – but in chaos, everyone figures out how to move past everyone very effectively.

    It is called “Self-organization” – a difficult concept for those whose minds have been brainwashed into believing that order comes only from force.

    Almost all of nature is self-organizing – including human behavior – which is why the “invisible hand” of free enterprise is so powerful. No one directs it, but its self-organizing nature, provides the optimum benefit for all who participate.

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