Open Mic for October 28, 2011

Good Friday to everyone. I know that the last few weeks have been rough as I haven’t been around much to post articles or offer my thoughts. Work certainly hasn’t slowed down any but I am making an effort to at least get some stuff posted. I will also work with the other authors here at SUFA so that they can make things happen when I can’t. Thank you to LOI and G-Man who both took time to make SUFA work over the last few weeks. I will offer up a few topics for open mic this morning. Not a ton of time to comment on them but I will offer my quick thoughts…

Topic #1

Do Crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights” of Muslims?

The Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights confirmed that it is investigating allegations that Catholic University violated the human rights of Muslim students by not allowing them to form a Muslim student group and by not providing them rooms without Christian symbols for their daily prayers.

The investigation alleges that Muslim students “must perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism – e.g., a wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”

A spokesperson for the Office of Human Rights told Fox News they had received a 60-page complaint against the private university. The investigation, they said, could take as long a six months.

The complaint was filed by John Banzhaf, an attorney and professor at George Washington University Law School. Banzhaf has been involved in previous litigation against the school involving the same-sex residence halls. He also alleged in his complaint involving Muslim students that women at the university were being discriminated against. You can read more on those allegations by clicking here.

Banzhaf said some Muslim students were particularly offended because they had to meditate in the school’s chapels “and at the cathedral that looms over the entire campus – the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.”

Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception

“It shouldn’t be too difficult somewhere on the campus for the university to set aside a small room where Muslims can pray without having to stare up and be looked down upon by a cross of Jesus,” he told Fox News.

A spokesman for Catholic University released a statement to Fox News indicating they had not seen any legal filings — but would respond once they do.

“Our faithfulness to our Catholic tradition has also made us a welcome home to students of other religions,” said Victor Nakas, associate vice president for public affairs. “No students have registered complaints about the exercise of their religions on our campus.”

In a 2010 interview with National Public Radio, university president John Garvey acknowledged that they don’t set aside prayer rooms for Muslim students.

“We make classrooms available, or our chapels are places where they can pray,” he told NPR. “We don’t offer Halal meat, although there are always meals that conform to Halal regulations, that allow students to do what they want.”

Banzhaf said that it is technically not illegal for Catholic University to refuse to provide rooms devoid of religious icons.

“It may not be illegal, but it suggests they are acting improperly and probably with malice,” he said. “They do have to pray five times a day, they have to look around for empty classrooms and to be sitting there trying to do Muslim prayers with a big cross looking down or a picture of Jesus or a picture of the Pope is not very conductive to their religion.”

Read the rest of the article here:

Are you kidding me? For those who defend the Muslim faith no matter what, how do you defend this? It isn’t a Catholic University. It is THE Catholic University. Muslims have the audacity to go to a school named “The Catholic University” and complain that there are Catholic symbols everywhere?!?!?!?!?

Notice on the sign that they are in service to Church before nation. What did the Muslims think was going to be at the Catholic University of America?

This is where I fervently believe that groups like CAIR and the ACLU are damaging our nation beyond repair. They honestly believe that they have the right to attend a private university founded on the beliefs of the Catholic Church and based completely around those beliefs, and dictate that their human rights are being violated because there are crosses everywhere.

I reiterate that the belief that you have the right to not be offended in this country is ridiculous. Say you are offended when someone wears their pants with their ass exposed and you are racist. But say you are offended when a Catholic institution displays Catholic symbols and you are a citizen being discriminated against.

I say screw you to the “offended” muslims (who I fervently believe were planted at the university specifically to raise these types of issues). When muslims around the world begin removing muslim symbols from mosques and treating christians with a tenth of the respect that muslims are treated with in this country, I will begin to reassess my position. Until then, if you don’t want to see Catholic symbols, attend some other college besides “The Catholic University.”

Topic #2

Occupy Wall Street: Not Here To Destroy Capitalism, But To Remind Us Who Saved It

Over at The New York Times, Nicholas Kristof has enunciated an excellent defense of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators, aimed at dispelling the notion that the Occupiers are some single-minded mass movement targeting the capitalist system for destruction. In fact, Kristof says, “while alarmists seem to think that the movement is a ‘mob’ trying to overthrow capitalism, one can make a case that, on the contrary, it highlights the need to restore basic capitalist principles like accountability.”

Kristof says that what Occupy Wall Street represents is “a chance to save capitalism from crony capitalists” and an entrenched system of “government-backed featherbed[ding]” that amounts to “socialism for tycoons and capitalism for the rest of us.” As Kristof notes, he’s seen this before: Years of covering the ’90s-era Asian financial crisis brought Kristof face-to-face with the same critique. It’s now unspooling in the United States and having its own deleterious effects, such as the near-intractable income inequality that was, at long last, reported on fully this week (perhaps thanks to the presence of the Occupiers themselves).

Kristof’s right to suggest that the Occupiers aren’t “half-naked Communists aiming to bring down the American economic system.” This isn’t the “Project Mayhem” of Chuck Palahniuk novels — we’re talking about a movement that’s spurring people to move their money from “too big to fail” banks into credit unions. That’s not exactly “smash the system.” That’s more like a group of people seeking out a means to maximize their power within the system, or using consumer choice to preserve, enhance and improve the best parts of the system. As Matt Taibbi notes in a fitting companion piece to Kristof’s, “These people aren’t protesting money. They’re not protesting banking. They’re protesting corruption on Wall Street.”

Taibbi calls them “cheaters,” Kristof calls them “cronies,” but the concept of “corruption” is intrinsic to both critiques. In fact, one could well argue that the truest evidence of Wall Street corruption is the fact that prior to the economic collapse, what Wall Street was practicing wasn’t really “capitalism” at all.

And here, Kristof absolutely nails it:

Capitalism is so successful an economic system partly because of an internal discipline that allows for loss and even bankruptcy. It’s the possibility of failure that creates the opportunity for triumph. Yet many of America’s major banks are too big to fail, so they can privatize profits while socializing risk.

Read the rest of the article here:

Let me first say…. Bullshit.

Believe me, I won’t trample on the right of people to protest Wall Street. I am not a fan of the big banks and market moguls either. But the entire premise of this article is a complete fabrication. Talk about completely inventing a more reasonable sounding principle behind a movement that never would have issued this as there official stance….

Step One to not being considered "some half naked communist".... Put on a bra Hippie

The people doing the “Occupy” protests are not, and never have been, looking to “remind Wall Street of who saved it.” What a complete crock of liberal retarded bullshit. They are screaming to “remind” anyone of anything. They are screaming “The New American Revolution” and “The end of Wall Street.”

The sad part for me is that I agree with much of what the movement is about. Wall Street does need reform. The big banks should be allowed to fail. Corporate greed has corrupted the American political system. These are all facts. But what I have seen so far out of this movement is the typical liberal hippie bullshit. Not to mention the hypocritical shit that drives me crazy (we hate big companies because they corrupt the system, but we love big unions that corrupt the system).

You know what people… you want to protest? Knock yourself out. I don’t have a problem with it. Lord knows, protesting is what the fringe left does best. They certainly do it better than work. But first find some real principles instead of simply hating something because you hate it. If you are opposed to big corporate corruption, then you should be opposed to big union corruption. But you aren’t. And that means you are not standing on principle, you are standing on nothing.

And you know what Huffington Post. You could simply try reporting what their stance really is instead of making up this utter bullshit about they are “just trying to remind Wall Street”. They want to tear down Wall Street. They want to tear down Corporations. They want to end Capitalism. You can lie for them all you want. But you can’t make your lies true.


  1. USW……I do not know of very many that are taking this movement seriously. I am not. For the most part, in my estimation from the interviews that I have seen, the protestors have no concept or idea of what capitalism is or how to spell the word economics. Their destruction of private property is inexcusable and is not a protected right under ANY amendment that I can find…..and no, once their peaceful assembly moves to violence, it is not protected. There are no words to describe this. There is a way to change the way wall street operates…do not use it. If the people want to change things, they have the weapons to do it….it is called dollars. But, everyone, including those in the pictures you posted, are wearing clothes from Walmart, drinking bottled water, wearing backpacks, etc. They are just out there yelling….and over what? They are tired of what exactly?

  2. Words cannot describe this law suit….it is not even worthy of the words and time I just spent on it.

  3. Ray Hawkins says:

    “They want to tear down Wall Street. They want to tear down Corporations. They want to end Capitalism.”

    …..I think you’re putting yourself in the same dishonest boat as others……..implying that there is any unifying movement or message in the Occupy XYZ movements.

    “Lord knows, protesting is what the fringe left does best.”

    cough coughteaparty cough cough 😉

    • Morning Ray,

      It’s funny you mention the TeaParty, that got so little coverage at first, then mostly negative coverage. And now OWS is wondering what to do with $500,000 in donations. And my, my, the coverage they are getting….
      In the nation’s two most well-known liberal newspapers – The New York Times and Washington Post – the amount of space devoted to Occupy Wall Street has taken on epic proportions. In the nearly six weeks since the Sept. 17 launch of the left-wing movement, the two papers have written a book-load of stories mentioning OWS totalling more than 180,000 words. That comes to 224 stories and opinion pieces, not counting letters to the editor.

      To put 180,000+ words in context, the U.S. Constitution has about 4,543 words. The Post and Times have already written more than 40 times that in just 40 days of coverage. The Bible’s Book of Genesis, which detailed how long it rained during Noah’s time on the ark of 40 days and 40 nights, contained only about 38,000 words.

      For the numerically inclined, the Post and Times wrote more than three words per minute for 40 days. That’s in an in era where every newspaper complains about limited staff and space in the paper. Or, based on #OccupyArrests on Twitter, about 66 words for every one of the 2,750 arrestees.

      But it’s not just how many words, it’s the fact that they are so positive. For example, the Oct. 23 Washington Post had at least five different news and feature stories highlighting Occupiers – including two stories that led the Arts section and a front page piece of propaganda pretending similarities between the Occupying revolutionaries and Tea Partiers. “Who knew? Tea partyers, Occupiers find kinship.”

      Inside the paper, the Arts section led off with two front page stories under the huge headline “Revolutionaries.” A movie review of the flick “Margin Call” even invoked Occupy Wall Street.

      Breaking it down, the Times published a remarkable near-90,000 words in the news sections on the revolutionary movement. It added about 24,000 in the opinion section. The Post had just 44,000 words in the news sections and another roughly 24,000 in opinion.

      Read more:

    • Ray,

      That is exactly what these protests are demanding, it is no mistake by D13 at all.

      They are socialist/communist who believe -like Charlie- that mercantilism – a tool of government – is capitalism, and they hate the consequences of mercantilist behavior, but blame capitalists for such consequences.

      So they want to destroy real capitalism by demanding mercantilist policy expansion!

  4. SK Trynosky Sr says:

    The Kristoff article is an opinion piece being treated like news. What you do is get a whole lot of opinion pieces going out there then you quote them then they become “news” and are mistaken for facts and become “real”.

    Would our resident lawyers please chime in today and explain how Muslims can sue a private university? If I were to guess I would say that it is because they accept Government funds, ie: loans, grants, GI Bill etc.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      @SK – I’m not so certain Catholic takes public money. Guess we’ll find out.

      • Buck the Wala says:

        Could be pure BS as you say below, could be more to it. Would need more facts. I believe the only way they could proceed if there is an acceptance of federal funds by the University.

      • Ray, they do take Pell grants but that is not the issue anyway….the mere taking of Pell grants does nothing, in my opinion, and does not make it a public institution… is still a Catholic Church school.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          I agree with the Colonel — I don’t believe Pell Grants alone would be sufficient.

          Assuming there is public funding going to the school though, it still wouldn’t be so simple as to say “Look, there are crosses in each room – I’m being discriminated against” This is why we need more facts — has there been a pattern of discrimination against Muslims at the school? Has the school provided non-Catholic prayer rooms for other religious groups? Etc. etc. etc.

          • Mathius™ says:

            Do you remember the “Muslim prayer room” at our college?

            Oooooh boy..

            There was the massive, ornate “non-denominational” church. Elsewhere, the Muslim prayer room was a 10′ x 10′ room next to the radio station with plain walls (except for a single mark to point the way to Mecca), no Korans, and a handful of shabby mats. They must have spent several million on the church, but maybe $25 on the Muslim prayer room.

            Yup, no discrimination there..

            • Buck the Wala says:

              To be fair the chapel was built with funds by private donation. And they did provide the prayer room — free of Jesus pictures too!

              • Mathius™ says:

                Just saying.. if I were Muslim, I would have been offended by the juxtaposition.

                And, for that matter, Hillel house was no great marvel either..

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Again, to be fair, Hillel house was renovated (substantially) while we were there — can’t remember if it was completed just before you started or not though. Much nicer now than what it was.

            • SK Trynosky Sr says:

              Interesting, did the “church” have religious symbols permanently affixed?

        • Ray Hawkins says:

          Just seems like someone enrolling at Annapolis then bitching about not being allowed to root for Army.

  5. Ray Hawkins says:

    My nephew started at Catholic this Fall – he hasn’t mentioned this case so far.

    He did state that in his dorm building there is a floor where somehow most of the gay male students ended up. There was a male RA there (also gay) that was fired and dismissed from school for asking one of the students out on a date. I was simply incredulous that there is “known” gay floor in the dorm given it is Catholic U.

    Oh well – who knew right?

    The Muslim case is utter bullshit.

  6. October 28, 2011
    Phony Downtrodden in Zuccotti Park
    Jason Pappas, American Thinker

    The self-professed dispossessed camped out in Zuccotti Park reminds one of the Hoovervilles of the Great Depression. The difference, of course, was that there were real poor in the Hoovervilles while the OWS activists in today’s Obamavilles are faux poor. A recent article in the New York Post describes what happens when the real poor show up.

    The high class cuisine served by the OWS chefs have attracted the city’s poor. The cooks aren’t pleased. “The Occupy Wall Street volunteer kitchen staff launched a ‘counter’ revolution yesterday — because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for ‘professional homeless’ people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.”

    Life is tough when you’re trying to prove you’re the downtrodden. Take the cuisine. “For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.”

    Who knows? They may have to occupy the local Marriott if this continues.

    Perhaps the occupation will be taken over by real poor. “Organizers took other steps to police the squatters, who they said were lured in from other parks with the promise of free meals.” Aren’t the OWS people squatters? When did Zuccotti Park become theirs? How can they reject the homeless as squatters on land that isn’t even theirs?

    What’s a middle-class guerilla to do? Oh, the indignity of sharing the park with real homeless!

  7. I read about this yesterday and watched it on FOX this am, but it’s not on their webpage.

    Obama Admin Seeks Permission To Lie In Response To Freedom Of Information Requests – Even To The Courts

    By Jerry Policoff (about the author)

    One of the President Obama’s first promises after becoming President of the United States was a commitment to usher in a new era of unprecedented government transparency . Instead the Obama administration has exhibited what may be an unprecedented obsession with government secrecy including blocking numerous law suits by invoking the doctrine of “State Secrets.” The administration has even come up with an interpretation of the Patriot Act which many in Congress who have seen it claim is overly broad and bestows more power on the Executive Branch than was intended by Congress when they passed it.

    Unfortunately those in Congress who have seen this document are not permitted to divulge its content, and we, the public, cannot see it because the administration has chosen to classify it as a “State Secret.” In other words, you might be doing something that the Obama Administration believes violates the Patriot Act, but you won’t know it until they indict you for breaking a law you did not know existed (I might be breaking it just by penning and publishing this article).

    Now the Obama/Holder Justice Department is attempting to re-write the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), empowering or even compelling government agencies to deny the very existence of records they know to exist if they believe they are legitimately exempted from disclosure. Of course they are most likely the sole arbiter of whether they are indeed exempt from disclosure. In effect the Obama/Holder Justice Department wants to be free to legally lie about the existence of records in response to FOIA requests. Apparently they want to avoid the embarrassment and inconvenience of being officially rebuked by the courts for doing exactly that (lying to a Federal judge), as occurred earlier this year when, in a strongly worded opinion, U.S. District Judge Cormac Carney wrote that the “Government cannot, under any circumstance, affirmatively mislead the Court.” The solution is simple: re-write the law so the government, in many circumstances, can affirmatively mislead the court.

    Despite substantial opposition by such groups as the ACLU, The National Press Club, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington,, Judicial Watch, et al to this radical re-write of the FOIA Law , this controversial effort by the Obama Administration to evade the very transparency it so passionately promised to deliver has been virtually ignored by the mainstream media which is supposed to the guardian of the people’s right to know.

    Whether you are a Democrat or a Republican or neither, this move by the Obama administration should trouble you deeply. Is this change we can believe in???

    Below are snippets of reports on this controversy, none of them from a mainstream media source. That was not my intent. I just could not find any. I learned about it just this morning in an e-mail from the National Law Journal:

    • LOI……I was in on a briefing regarding this very subject. I am being told that the reason that this is being done this way is because terrorist organizations and foreign entities were using FOIA to get specific information on investigations concerning them. So, it is ok to lie.

      Do not ask me if I believe this….I think you know the answer to that…but just in case you had a brain fart 🙂 today……I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FOR A MOMENT OR EVEN A NEW YORK SECOND…….. if they want to keep investigations on terrorist organizations secret….classify it.

      Obama is by passing Congress and he will by pass our laws.

      • Since the Patriot Act and other laws protect them from revealing anything that might hurt our defense, it’s pretty clear that’s not what this is about. Now “fast and furious”, I can see some Dept. of Justice officials wanting more legal shielding. They enforce the law, so shouldn’t they be above it? And I don’t want them to hand that power to a Republican administration either.

        And WTH, you were briefed on this!!!!! Why and how did anyone in that chain of command be made aware this was an issue? I can understand briefing on what to say if asked, but DoJ wants/needs rules changed to bypass FOIR????

  8. A must see video, NYTimes, to catch a journalist….

    • Saw this earlier this week. It’s going to be a thorn in Romney’s side. I’m beginning to think it’s between Cain and Gingrich

      • I hope it burns Romney, or something does. I think the Republican party has already picked his as most likely to defeat Obama, being a “moderate” like McCain. Gingrich has the knowledge and ideals, but I don’t trust his ethics. Perry seems to have a large insider backing, so would be us switching from blue to red shirts again, but still playing the same game.

        Cain/Gingrich, I could get behind. Or Cain/Paul, Cain/Bachmann……

      • SK Trynosky Sr says:

        It is funny how the “chosen” Republican always has stuff like this hanging around his neck. I sometimes suspect that there is this secret Republican bunker somewhere off in the hinterlands or maybe in the Penthouse suite at the Waldorf Astoria where 120 year old Republican leaders, all on life support, gather to figure out who will be the most harmless candidate. From there we get the Ford’s, Dole’s, McCains, Romney’s who are guaranteed to lose. Sometimes they accidentally win (both Bush’s) because the other guys are just so bad. Other times they win with someone like Nixon who is incredibly liberal but who is detested by the left because, well, he’s not JFK. In my lifetime, the mold has only been broken twice with Goldwater and then Reagan. If you study those campaigns you see that both candidates were on their own and received virtually no party support.

        I remember Romney’s Dad, very presidential looking, probably someone that can be easily “controlled” but like Junior he had a tendency to shoot his mouth off at inopportune times and say inopportune things most notably that he was “brainwashed” about Vietnam. That was the end of his campaign.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      @LOI – we’re still publishing the heavily edited, without-context bullshit that James O’Keefe puts out there? He has ZERO credibility. Ugh!

      • Ray,

        Why not?

        1. He is “attacking” high level journalist, including the NYTimes. They know a lot about slander/libel. I’m waiting on the lawsuits…
        2. He includes the unedited video at the links he provides.
        3. If there is a fair chance of scantily clad women being shown, that’s enough reason for me to watch……

  9. And more on the OWS movement his morning…..dateline: Dallas, Texas…..interview on the street. A female protestor with her son….from Kansas City and drove down to Dallas to assist them….on camera……….saying ” I am protesting to allow me to bring my “son” up as genderless.” Hearing that comment stopped me in mid drink, DP running out of my nose and ears, listening to this OWS protestor wanting to bring her SON up genderless and that is why she drove 500 miles. Asked why she was upset with Wall Street, her comment was..” I don’t know anything about Wall Street but I am just out to protest everything ” And when asked why she did not participate in the Kansas City OWS movement….she blinks at the camera and says ( you gotta sit down for this one )….”There is a protest in Kansas City? Maybe I need to go back home and protest there.”

    This has to be a product of intense government training.

    Hearing this interview and reading where Buck agreed with me on something…..Mathius still living with his alter ego….tough start to a day.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      It is a strange morning, I’ll give ya that one.

      • LOL…good morning, Counselor, and I hope this day finds you in good health and capitalist prosperity. How is the fam?

        • Buck the Wala says:

          This day, as all others the past couple of weeks, finds me busy…well, but busy. Family is doing well — though my puppy has this habit of walking over to me in the morning and swatting me (never the Mrs., of course) in the back of the head to let me know I should be awake and outside walking him. I have no proof to back this up, but I strongly believe Canine Weapon is behind this.

          How’s everything down by you?

          • Canine Weapon states that if you have no video evidence to beach up your claims, you should cease and desist all statements that point to him as a potential catalyst for your dog standing up for his dog-given rights.

            He also said there is a picture of a cat in your home. Lawsuit pending.

    • Mathius™ says:

      Look, some people are crazy, ok?

      I’m sorry about the DP running out your ears (that had to be an unpleasant experience), but some people are just nuts. There are crazy and stupid people in the Tea Party as well, are there not? Stark raving lunatics in both camps. People get offended when the left points at the wingnuts on the right and acts as if that’s what the Tea Party is, so I think it’s only fair that you acknoledge that this bat-shit crazy woman is not necessarily indicative of the OWS as a general loose association of disenfranchised and disgruntled neo-hippies.

      • SK Trynosky Sr says:

        They seem, just seem mind you, to have a much higher percentage of bat-shit folks. Somehow some over 50 guy dressing up as Paul Revere at a tea party doesn’t come across as quite as crazy. Crazy yes, but not as crazy as in she needs her meds.

      • Matt, yes some people are crazy. BTW, are you going to hang out with them any?

        National Review Online and The Blaze have published online video footage this week showing Occupy Wall Street protesters saying and shouting anti-Jewish slurs.

        “Go back to Israel,” shouted one protester at an elderly Jewish man.

        Read more:

        • Buck the Wala says:

          This anti-Semite attack of OWS is utter nonsense and has been completely debunked. There was a great picture I came across of a guy with a sign that labeled Wall Street as being controlled by Zionists. Standing next to him was another guy with a sign pointing to that first guy saying something along the lines of how crazy he is. In NYC, there were news reports of OWS protestors ganging up on a small group of people with anti-semitic signs trying to get them to leave the Park.

          • And that may be true Buck, but the TeaParty protests sure got a lot more attention paid to the wacko’s than OWS seems to get. And the TeaParty had a clear, consistent message that was not racist. But how many MSM reports made them out to be racists?

            As I said, I don’t have a problem with OWS except they seem clueless. Kent’s cartoon really makes the point, it’s the partnership between big business and big government. Have any of the OWS been chanting about GE’s profits and being able to legally not pay taxes?

            • Buck the Wala says:

              Kent’s cartoon makes the point!? Kent’s cartoon may indicate the OWS crows is clueless, but it also says the same about the Tea Party!

              By the way, on OWS and the anti-semite nonsense: I’m still searching for that photo from the other day.

              You criticize the media for calling out the Tea Party as racist, but somehow neglect to see the same thing happening in regards to OWS and anti-semitism. All over the media are reports of anti-semitism within OWS. Sure, the clear and consistent message of the Tea Party was not racist. But there sure were racist signs and messages within the group. (And I don’t recall ever seeing anyone surrounding one of those outliers and criticizing their racist message — something I have seen with OWS).

              • Buck, Re-Raise…..

                An originally enthusiastic woman involved in the “Occupy San Diego” demonstrations has called it quits, she told conservative radio host Rick Amato, because of the protest organization’s fringe nature.

                Amato’s radio show featured the young woman, who asked that her identity remain confidential, in a twenty minute interview Wednesday.

                Identified only as “Jean,” the disillusioned demonstrator said she had attended an event at which Amato was a speaker, and found the participants represented too much of a “fringe element.”

                “I don’t feel like I fit in,” Jean told Amato. “Some of the social issues aren’t in line with mine, and it’s difficult to sit down and listen to — to sit down and swallow the whole drink.”

                A small business owner who calls herself “fairly successful,” Jean was having difficulty obtaining business loans from local banks. “I own a small business, and I saved up. I’m not trying to get rich, I’m just trying to build up.”

                She first attended a Tea Party rally, an experience that she see found too extreme for her liking. Upon hearing of the Occupy San Diego group, she considered it as a new alternative. “Now I’m like, ok,” she said, “maybe here?”

                Jean described seeing large masses of homeless and possibly inebriated demonstrators mingling within the small group of social activists. She recounted, with surprise, seeing questions on the group’s Facebook page regarding sex offenders in their ranks and referencing past incidents. She described the group’s general assemblies as “a little bit of a circus.”

                But it was the group’s “fringe” element that convinced Jean not to come back. “They want to include everybody and everybody’s opinion,” she said. “I need a simple movement with a direction.”

                Jean even expressed regret for the protesters’ treatment of law enforcement.

                “I really felt bad for the police officers — it was difficult to listen to,” she said. “That was hard. I went and shook [the officers’] hands. I have respect for the police and I think they’re part of the 99 percent.”

                Read more:

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Not sure what your point is here, except to show someone who after attending Occupy San Diego decided she didn’t fit in and didn’t support the movement.

              • Buck

                cartoon may indicate the OWS crows is clueless, but it also says the same about the Tea Party!

                BINGO! Exactly what I’ve been saying.

                Tea party guys want to “cut” government – as long as such cuts do not cut THEIR benefits.
                They are doomed by the contradiction of their demands.

                These guys want to stop mercantilism by demanding more big government intrusions which expands mercantilism.
                They are doomed by the contradiction of their demands.

  10. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    When we know for a fact that the vast majority of sheeple are trained from the age of 4 or 5 to the age of 18 (or 22 or even older) to be utterly moronic pontificators of utter BS and nonsense, why do we act so darn surprised when such a large number of people are running around being utterly moronic and pontificating utter BS and nonsense?

    After the fire is out, saying “it’s a goddamn shame about that fire” doesn’t really do any concrete good. Safety planning and fire prevention well before the fact of the fire is the way to go. Find a way to train the 4 to 22-year-olds of the nation to think for themselves and be self-reliant and we wouldn’t even have stories like the 2 that USW posted today. Maybe all of us should form “occupy the classrooms” movements and go from there.

  11. Buck the Wala says:

    I’m having a bit of a hard time figuring out why so many on Sufa are so opposed to OWS, so quick to point them out as nothing but a bunch of liberal rag-tag hippies. OWS while clearly more politically liberal than the Tea Party, does not represent the fringe left, as much as you may wish to label them as such. In fact, at least some of what they stand for is argued for on Sufa day in and day out — an end to crony capitalism, and end to corruption. Perhaps some do seek an end to capitalism entirely, but this is not indicative of the broader movement. Sure they don’t have a nifty clear and concise message that fits on a postcard, but why should they? Because the media, or you, demand it? They are out there making noise, bringing greater awareness to the economic inequalities this country faces.

    I love how so many here are quick to point out that, for instance, the Tea Party is not racist. Its just one or two outliers who don’t represent the Tea Party and do not speak for the Tea Party. But OWS, now there’s a bunch of fringe liberal hippies if I ever saw one! The whole lot of them! I don’t even know where I’m going with this anymore. Except to say….sigh.

    • Mathius™ says:

      The answer, Buck, is that it’s easier to see a group you align with in it’s diversity, whereas a group you do not align with is easily viewed as homogenized. Thus, outliers in your group are (rightfully) recognized as non-indicative. However, outliers in the other group are seen as just part of that other group (incorrectly).

      Just more human nature, I guess.

      But then, people here tend not to like it when I pontificate on human nature..

      • Buck the Wala says:

        Yeah, you gotta stop with that nonsense already.

      • Keep pontificating. I enjoyed your posts.

        • Mathius™ says:

          I’m glad you enjoy them.

          But do you agree?

          • I did for the majority of what you said (there was an odd point or two I would have to think on).

            What “we” may want to return to wasn’t in the first place (as you clearly said). There is no period of time where we have embraced the complete picture of what life was like that we would have to return to. It is a fantasy existence. What would be more accurate is that “we” would want to pick and choose some aspects of what “we” remember as the “good” times to bring back.

            It made me clearly realize that what I want is not to return to anything, but to alter the future to better represent what I believe would fit the image of what I hope for America to truly become.

            A big difference and I thank you for prompting the thinking I’ve been doing on the topic since you wrote your comments.

            • Mathius™ says:

              Let me know when you’re done thinking it over. I’d be very interested in your thoughts.

    • Buck,

      I’m not opposed to OWS, per say, just think they have yet to present a clear message except Wall Street/the one %, etc is evil and we (the government) should take most or all their money. I have written about Goldman Sachs and agree they are corrupt, but hope and changey is in with them tighter than any Repug, so it seems to me it should be conservatives marching there. Unless this is a tactic, talk about what you will do, but do the opposite. And consider some of the players….

      The former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in the self-proclaimed “leaderless” Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing “guerrilla” protest events and hiring door-to-door canvassers to collect money under the banner of various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell

      The former director of New York ACORN, Jon Kest, and his top aides are now busy working at protest events for New York Communities for Change (NYCC). That organization was created in late 2009 when some ACORN offices disbanded and reorganized under new names after undercover video exposes prompted Congress to cut off federal funds.

      ACORN Plays Key Role in ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Movement

      Former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in ‘leaderless’ Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing ‘guerrilla’ protest events and hiring canvassers to collect money for various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell

      NYCC’s connection to ACORN isn’t a tenuous one: It works from the former ACORN offices in Brooklyn, uses old ACORN office stationery, employs much of the old ACORN staff and, according to several sources, engages in some of the old organization’s controversial techniques to raise money, interest and awareness for the protests.

      Sources said NYCC has hired about 100 former ACORN-affiliated staff members from other cities – paying some of them $100 a day – to attend and support Occupy Wall Street. Dozens of New York homeless people recruited from shelters are also being paid to support the protests, at the rate of $10 an hour, the sources said.

      At least some of those hired are being used as door-to-door canvassers to collect money that’s used to support the protests.

      Read more:

      • Buck the Wala says:

        “I’m not opposed to OWS, per say, just think they have yet to present a clear message except Wall Street/the one %, etc is evil and we (the government) should take most or all their money.”

        Again, why must they have a clear and concise message that fits on a postcard? I read an interesting article the other day getting right to this point. Much to the consternation of the media (who live on clear and concise messages and soundbites), one of the greatest strengths of the movement is that there is no single message.

        • It is important-because I can’t stand with anyone until I know what the majority are standing for and what their goals and possible solutions are.

          • Buck the Wala says:

            Why? Their message is one of economic inequality (yes, generally speaking). Their goal (at the moment) is to raise awareness.

            • Among the banners and flags are now discarded packets of condoms, cigarettes and bottles of spirits, while naked youngsters happily get together with just sleeping bags covering their modesty.

              A box of free condoms is kept in the main area where protesters are camping.

              If this is an accurate description of the conditions on the ground, it sounds more like Woodstock than it does a political movement. On Friday, alone, more than 400 people were at the makeshift city and sex was apparently a rampant occurrence.

            • Sorry Buck, got distracted. Now tell me again, what was their message?LOL


            • Well okay Buck, if you want to support and help finance a “Rant Fest” have at it. From my reading it has a small core of anarchists-probably the Charlie type(agree with BF here) a few who say they are libertarians and support Ron Paul-and then a bunch of socialist, communist(per their signs), a lot of democrats from the far left insane to one I’ve heard who could have been Matt. I can’t speak in absolute certainty of what they stand for-but I’m pretty comfortable in believing that they don’t stand for what I believe in. I also think they are being careful not to state what they are for-because they want big crowds for the camera’s-if they stated their objectives-a lot of people would leave. I also wonder just what the time and money all these people are donating will end up supporting. Without a clear message of the goal and how they want to solve the problem-you don’t know what you are supporting. That should bother you-IMHO But like me-you may feel that you also have a good idea of where this is going-which is why you can support it-without really knowing for sure.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Found one of the articles references above in re: to not having a postcard-sized message:


              • No offense Buck, but that’s the silliest attempt to rationalize I’ve heard in awhile.

                “They want accountability for the banks that took their money, they want to end corporate control of government. They want their jobs back. They would like to feed their children. They want—wait, no, we want—to be heard by a media that has devoted four mind-numbing years to channeling and interpreting every word uttered by a member of the Palin family while ignoring the voices of everyone else.”

                Okay we all agree-so what NOW???? Does this agreement mean anything in practical terms???

                And the refusing to let the media define them-give me a break-but if I should buy into the message-than I need to define them by their signs alone-oops, that’s probably not what they want. That means they truly are a Jewish hating, capitalist hating, eat the rich, socialist/communist bunch of crazies.

            • Buck

              Their message is one of economic inequality (yes, generally speaking).

              The only equality of economics is poverty.

              Comparing your wallet to my wallet to establish your level of happiness will doom you to despair.

              Their goal (at the moment) is to raise awareness.

              Awareness of….. what?

              That they are idiots who do not obey common law or respect private property?

      • October 28, 2011
        Advice for the Occupiers from a Tea Partier
        By Kender MacGowan, American Thinker

        Hello, fellow protesters — I’d like to offer some advice, in the spirit of camaraderie for your ongoing demonstrations. You’ve been doing things in protests we Tea Partiers never did and you’re having experiences I am unfamiliar with. I think perhaps I can offer some advice to stop these events from occurring. I see you’ve been having some trouble with the cops telling you to break it up and go home and then, when you don’t, they shoot tear gas into the crowd and swarm in and bust skulls.

        We never had that at the Tea Party protests even though at some Tea Party events, some folks showed up packing heat, which you would think is more than reason enough for cops to come in and shut it down. They never did, though, and there are probably several things we did that you haven’t been successful at implementing. What follows are some things we did that assured a tear gas- and baton-free event, and I offer them up simply as friendly advice.

        1) Get permits. I know it’s a bit of a pain and subtracts from your feeling of impromptu, grassroots, screw-the-system activism, but seriously, we have certain rules in place to help keep order and protect people from uncontrollable situations that get out of hand. Plus it gives those “pigs” (do you hippies still call cops “pigs”?) one less reason to roust you.

        2) Police yourselves. I realize that part of your message is screw the system and you believe that folks should be able to do whatever, whenever and wherever they feel like it, but the fact of the matter is that illegal drugs are illegal drugs, and the feeling of power you may derive from having an “eff ’em — just let them try to arrest me” attitude doesn’t help your cause. People out here are calling you dirty hippies. You should work to get the general public on your side, not just the disaffected stoners, unemployed baristas, and out-of-work philosophy majors.

        3) Have actual grievances with proposed solutions. “Destroy capitalism” may sound fine in the abstract and look great sharpied across your girlfriend’s torso, but it’s really not a grievance. Honestly, I have seen little beyond the standard communist sloganeering and heard little beyond a lot of talk about “unifying” (what you’re unifying against and who is supposed to unify has also slipped my grasp), and frankly, after a month and more of protesting, I would think some of you could have come together and put in place a few talking points at least. While you’re at it, be consistent! Calling for the Koch brothers to not support politicians and causes while not calling for Soros to do the same only shows your true agenda.

        4) Find someone who is articulate and reasonably dressed to be your spokesperson. Having someone with wild hair that looks filthy, wearing a shirt with Che Guevara on it, and holding a sign that says “eat the rich” is probably not the best way to go to engender sympathy in the community at large. You may not think about it, but most of the people who watch the news and see you ranting about inequality probably just got home from a long day at work in the corporate world you’re wanting to destroy, so getting those folks on your side would go a long way in helping you.

        5) Hygiene! Learn it. Employ it. Looking like a modern version of Haight Ashbury circa 1967 may give you credibility at the coffee shop where you hang out and rail against the world, but it just makes you look like a dirty hippie on TV and in newspaper photos. Perhaps if you got a haircut and wore a suit and looked more like those you want to destroy, some people may be fooled into thinking you have a point. (But again, you must first have an actual grievance and a proposed solution before that’s really going to happen. See point #3.)

        6) Quit playing the drums. I know it’s satisfying to bang your bongos, but seriously, it’s monotonous and rather childish, which also happens to be the same description most thinking people give to your ideas as a whole.

        7) Stop camping out. Bunches of people are saying, “Why don’t these folks occupy a shower and a job?” (hearkening back to #5), and when you camp out for weeks, they don’t think you’re committed to a cause — they think you’re a lazy bum who doesn’t have the 2 dollars a day it costs to camp in a campground. You never saw the Tea Party camping out. Granted, we Tea Parties weren’t in the same boat as you Occupy kids; in other words, we had more at home waiting on us than an empty basement and a freezer full of Hot Pockets. We had, you know, responsibilities and homes and families to care for, jobs to go to, and, generally, you know…a life.

        8) Listen to the cops. When they say leave, leave. Cops have a tendency to tell you only things you really need to know, and “disperse” is generally followed by tear gas canisters — and, if you don’t get the message at that point, batons swinging through the smoke. Face it: you kids don’t have the knowledge or the guts to actually fight someone; in fact, part of your whole schtick is “war is not the answer” and “violence doesn’t solve problems,” but the truth is that it does, and the cops know it.

        If you want to fight the system — the very system, by the way, that has given you the freedom to sit around in a tent in the middle of major American cities for weeks on end and not die of starvation or exposure — try to do it the old-fashioned way.

        Hire a lobbyist.

  12. The Muslim students at the Catholic school are NOT having their rights violated. Obvious to anyone with any sense. Now, if those students were forced to wear a crucifix, or forbidden to carry a pocket Koran, then I would agree their rights have been violated, since I have a particular view on the absoluteness of property rights which is not very popular with some other libertarians.

  13. And, as for the Occupy folks: Check this out.

  14. USWep,

    Catholic University violated the human rights of Muslim students by not allowing them to form a Muslim student group and by not providing them rooms without Christian symbols for their daily prayers.

    Under the disguise of “rights” an attack on a human right of property appears “a right”.

    Property rights give the owner the supreme decision on the use of his property.
    If the University banned running shoes, it is their right.

    The University may have violated respectable behavior, maybe violated common consideration – but they most certainly are 100% in their rights to do as they have done.

    It is very dangerous to make up artificial rights so to attack real rights.

    • As children across America costume themselves as ghouls, ghosts, goblins and former North African dictators Monday night, they may have missed the most spine-chilling scare of the day. According to calculations based on the International Monetary Fund’s World Economic Outlook, on All Hallows’ Eve the United States’ total debt will surpass its Gross Domestic Product for the first time since World War II.

      That means the average American’s share of government debt is more than an average American makes in a year

      Read more:

    • The good news is that the economy grew at a modest 2.5 percent in the last quarter. The bad news is that rapid economic growth in 2012 or 2013 could also prompt bank executives to inadvertently jump-start inflation.

      The executives are holding back roughly $1 trillion in funds provided in 2009 by government officials to buy over-valued mortgages from banks and Wall Street firms.

      The bank executives are now holding that cash because they were traumatized by the near-meltdown of the banking system in 2008.

      But if their confidence grows, they could loan out hundreds of billions of dollars and spur inflation, says Steve Horwitz, an economist at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center.

      There’s some evidence that inflation is already underway, he said.

      New data shows a sharp jump in prices at the base of the economy, he said. For example, consumer prices rose 3.9 percent over the last year, but the price of “crude goods” grew 21 percent.

      Crude goods are the raw materials of production, and their increased prices may gradually pass through factories, distribution centers and shops until they bump up consumer prices in future months. The 21 percent growth is perhaps being caused by companies’ use of banks’ plentiful funds to bid up prices, he said.

      There’s some evidence this alarming pass-through process has begun. The prices of “finished goods” are up 7 percent, and the the prices of “intermediate goods” are up 10.5 percent, said Horwitz, who is also an economic professor at St. Lawrence University in Canton, N.Y.

      “I’d say it’s a two or three alarm [fire], not a five alarm,” he said.

      Read more:

      • LOI

        “I’d say it’s a two or three alarm [fire], not a five alarm,” he said.


        Ok, quite a few city blocks are on fire, but the economists think only 3 fire trucks are necessary.

        If you were watching this, what do you think?

        You know the rest of the city is going to burn too

        Knowing that, what do you do?

        Do you wait around to be burned out?
        Do you get ready for the fire that is most certainly on its way?

        • “If you were watching this, what do you think?”

          I think you can smother a small camp fire by piling too much wood on it. Doing this to bigger fire will temporally reduce the size of the fire, only to end with it becoming bigger. I think, just like TARP, the more they add to this, the bigger the eventual fire will be. What should have been a recession, even double dip, will end in a world wide depression. I also think the “fire” could be put out, not just contained, but think it unlikely.

          “Knowing that, what do you do?” I have taken your advice to the extent I could. I have profited and would be happy to buy you a very nice dinner as a thank you. I am still looking at improving my preparedness….

  15. LOI…some of your neighbors?

    I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three

  16. LOI,

    I blogged about “GumItUp”

    For either the TEA party or the anti-“Wall Street” guys, this is how to cause “change”

    Here are Alinsky’s thirteen tactical rules:

    1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

    2. Never go outside the experience of your people.

    3. Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy.

    4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

    5. Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

    6. A good tactic is one your people enjoy.

    7. A tactic that drags on too long is a drag.

    8. Keep the pressure on.

    9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

    10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

    11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counter side.

    12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

    13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize and polarize it.

  17. 😐

  18. New Twist – NYPD Union Warns of Lawsuits Against ‘Occupy’ Supporters
    The head of the police sergeants’ union has issued a warning to Occupy Wall Street: protest-related incidents that result in injuries to his members could be met with civil lawsuits against any group supporting the encampment. Ed Mullins, president of the New York Police Department’s Sergeant’s Benevolent Association, said Thursday that if one of his sergeants is assaulted while policing the protests, his union would file civil lawsuits seeking monetary damages against individual protesters as well as any groups whose support has sustained the demonstrations in lower Manhattan. Any civil suit would be in addition to criminal charges faced by those protesters involved. “What I’d like to make clear is people can protest, that’s their right, it’s done every day of the week (in New York City),” Mullins said. “But if a sergeant gets injured we are going to hold you accountable.” Mullins specified that it wasn’t just a warning to the protesters. “We’re going to hold those who allow this to fester accountable too,” he said.

    He said the list of those potentially liable could include people providing financial support, food and other supplies to the protesters, the city itself and even Brookfield Properties, owner of Zuccotti Park, where protesters have camped since Sept. 17. So far, Mullins said, more than 20 officers have received injuries while policing the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations. He said in many instances the protesters have “intentionally and maliciously” instigated violent confrontations with police. (Wall Street Journal)

  19. @ Buck ….you keep saying economic disparity. Please, what is your definition of that?

    • SK Trynosky Sr says:

      How about, people not making as much as Buck?

      • Buck the Wala says:

        If only SK, if only…

        Look, there’s always going to be economic disparity. That is a GOOD thing. I work hard, I get paid more, I save, I have more money than you. Or vice versa and you have more than me. No problems there and I have never argued otherwise.

        But, the problem here is the sheer magnitude of economic disparity/inequality this country is now facing – more than ever before and from the looks of it, it is only getting worse. The problem is not just hey, you have more money than me; the problem goes to equal opportunity. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to succeed (and/or fail). But that is not the case. We are living in a country where the top 1% far outearn the bottom 80%, where income growth for the top 1% has grown by a factor of nearly 275 since the 1970s and, for the rest of us, by only a small fraction of that number, etc. Further, numerous studies show that, the more economic inequality a country faces, the worse off that country is socially speaking — there is more division, less societal cohesion, as economic inequality grows.

    • Geez! Why even go there? Damned if we do..damned if we don’t. Must be them who are raaaaacist!

  20. Very interesting article on the most liberal immigration county in the world…and their problems.

    • SK Trynosky Sr says:

      I love the comments, especially the one about immigration only adds to a culture, it does not take away. People are so damned wrapped up in their own little tweet-blackberry-text world these days they are missing everything that is happening around them. Once they get to that magic 50% number, let’s see just how much the Swedes get to keep of their own culture. It sure ain’t going to be pretty.

      I also loved the comment about how proud they are of taking in more Iraqi refugees than the US does. What lunkheads. The idea is that we made it possible for life to be better in Iraq. Nobody should take in Iraqi refugees! let them stay and fight for a better country. I fear that once we see the helicopters lifting off from the roof of the embassy again we will be overwhelmed with Iraqi’s who refuse to fight for their country or themselves. Our lunkheads will do whatever is necessary to bring them in. We will “owe” it to them.

      If Western Europe wants to survive as an approximation of what it was, they are going to have to get serious about increasing their population. I would suggest that rather than spend fortunes on entertaining Somali sheepherders, they cut taxes substantially on people having children and if necessary, pay a subsidy to those who have more children. Kind of do the reverse of what they are doing and make it possible for women who want to stay home during their child rearing years to do so. So the career woman has her one or none kid but the others have the four or five that they would like but can never afford.

      can you imagine what it is going to be like when the Muslims have majorities in Italy for example and the minarets go up around St Peters and the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel gets overpainted?. Think it can’t happen? Think Haiga Sofia in Constantinople . Yes it was a while back but have we not yet learned that there is nothing new under the sun?

      Referring back to my first paragraph, I ask you Colonel, with the lack of situational awareness people have today, what percentage do you think of today’s young folks would survive their first day in Vietnam without hitting a trip wire?

  21. SK Trynosky Sr says:

    With apologies to Andy Rooney

    And another thing, have you ever noticed that its getting colder and colder earlier and earlier. Here we are, a few days before Halloween and NY and NJ are expecting a major snow storm. There is, I hear, a run on Eskimo costumes. Poor little kids will have to trick or treat as Nanook of the North. Well those greenies have sure succeeded, they sure have. They have cut down the CO 2 emissions so much that we are now experiencing man made global cooling. So I for one intend to crank up both my fireplaces this weekend, burn the filthiest oil encrusted logs I can find, barbecue a steak or two on the back porch and foul my sparkplugs so we can get back to normal weather.

  22. I think some enterprising younsters should open up a lemonade stand across the street from OWS. It would be a example of free enterprise. It would be interesting to see the cops shut it down.

  23. 79 % Just unbelievable

    Public Employees Busted in Retirement Scheme
    October 28, 2011 4:12 P.M.
    By Nathaniel Botwinick

    Employees of the Long Island Railroad (LIRR) have defrauded that organization of over $1 billion over the last seven years. In as many as 500 cases, LIRR employees falsely claimed disability benefits to supplement their pensions, employing a sophisticated scheme involving special “facilitators” and doctors operating “disability mills.” Eleven defendants have been named so far, including a former president of the railroad union; each has been charged with conspiracy to commit health-care fraud and mail fraud.

    There were three doctors who participated in this scheme, and in return they received cash payments between $800 and $1,200 — along with millions in health-insurance fees for unnecessary procedures. These procedures, which included X-rays, MRIs, and physical therapy, were used to bolster their patients’ files for later claims. Afterwards, they provided patients with falsified medical assessments, claiming that it would be impossible for them to continue working. The LIRR employees would then immediately retire with both their regular and disability pensions.

    The LIRR employees also collaborated with a few “facilitators,” who helped falsify disability applications and coordinated with the doctors’ offices. One of these facilitators, Joseph Rutigliano, was a former LIRR union president who had also falsely claimed disability benefits. Before retiring, he worked over 500 hours of overtime and took no sick days, yet applied for disability benefits due to back pain immediately upon retirement. His condition did not prevent him from playing golf several times a month.

    Other brazen disability claims included that of Gregory Noone, who collected $105,000 a year; he claimed that “he suffered severe pain when gripping and using simple hand tools and pain in his knees, shoulder, and back from bending or crouching.” Yet this pain did not slow down his post-retirement tennis and golf games. Similarly, Steven Gagliano’s “severe and disabling pain in [his] back, shoulder and legs,” which rendered him “occupationally disabled,” did not prevent him from participating in a 400-mile bike trip across northern New York.

    The structure of the LIRR’s pension system encouraged this massive scam. As early as age 50, a LIRR employee can retire and collect a LIRR pension, but has to wait until the age of 65 before he or she can claim a federal Railroad Retirement Benefit (RRB). However, if the employee is declared disabled immediately upon retirement, then that employee is entitled to both the LIRR pension and the RRB. This allows for the collection of an income equal to his or her previous base salary. In other words, the system created the incentives for deception by employees.

    The high rate of disability claims at the LIRR relative to Metro North, a comparable regional railroad that does not have retirement at 50, illustrates this situation: Seventy-nine percent of LIRR employees over 50 claimed disability benefits, while only 15 percent of Metro North employees did.

    Thus, while the LIRR scandal is a story of fraud, the real lesson lies in the dangers for abuse in entitlement systems.

  24. Good Grief-From his words on this video-I would agree with him-but boy do I not agree with him. Gotta know what they believe-what their ideology is-what their solutions are-or you can stand with total evil.

    • This is only one article I found on his history. Now I may have to go throw up-I feel dirty!!

      J.T. Ready

      White Space (2007)
      Date of Birth:
      Mesa, AZ

      J.T. (Jason Todd) Ready, a former member of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement, specializes in bashing immigrants. After being court-martialed twice, Ready was discharged from the Marines for bad conduct in 1996. Ready, who has run for various Arizona offices usually without success, advocates for the placement of landmines on the border and rails against Jews and nonwhites. In June 2010, Ready led a group of armed extremists into the Arizona desert to apprehend immigrants and drug smugglers.

      Criminal History
      In 1992, Ready was arrested for damage to property and aggravated assault with a weapon. He accepted a plea bargain and was convicted of assault. Ready had been with a friend who destroyed a car mirror with a baseball bat.

      In 1996, while serving in the Marine Corps as a lance corporal, Ready was court-martialed twice. The first time, after being absent for eight days without authorization, he was convicted of unauthorized absence, failing to follow an order or regulation, and larceny and wrongful appropriation. He was convicted, demoted to private and jailed for three months. Later that year, Ready was court-martialed again for conspiracy, assault, and wrongful solicitation and advice. He was found guilty, spent six months in detention, and was discharged from the Marine Corps for bad conduct.

      In 2007, Ready was pulled over for driving a vehicle with a fake license plate. He was carrying a 9mm Beretta handgun at the time. Ready was arrested and charged for possessing a traffic preemption emitter, which is an illegal device that can change traffic lights from red to green.

      In His Own Words
      “This is a white, European homeland. That’s how it should be preserved if we want to keep it clean, safe, and pure.”
      — Ready speaking at a National Socialist Movement rally in Oct. 24, 2009

      “The jew [sic] itself knows it is a parasite. I have had them admit as much to me and laugh in my face… But a parasite cannot carry on in its parasitic nature if it is exposed for what it really is. Their whole house of cards comes tumbling down for all to see. Like in 1933 Germany. Just because it has two legs, does not change its nature any less than a six-legged parasite stops sucking blood. There have been many pogroms when the host people stops being victims of these vampires. Another pogrom is approaching.”
      — New Saxon blog posting, May 8, 2010

      “This is the minuteman project on steroids. We’ve got people with assault weapons. We will use lawful, deadly force when appropriate.”
      — KOLD News 13, June 21, 2010

      J.T. (Jason Todd) Ready attended Mesa Community College in Mesa, Ariz., where he was the president of the Mesa Community College Republican Club. In 1996, Ready joined the Marines but he was discharged that same year for bad conduct.

      In 2004, Ready tried to make a career for himself in politics, running for a seat in the Arizona House of Representatives. One of his campaign goals was to defeat the threat he claimed was posed by undocumented immigrants to American health and culture. He told a reporter that the state could improve its education system if it would “deal with this mass illegal influx of foreign students who do not even embrace the same language and culture as Americans and who spread tuberculosis, whooping cough, lice, and other third-world biological diseases to other children.” He was defeated in the election.

      Ready made headlines in March 2006 when he fired a pistol at a Latino man armed with a BB gun (no criminal charges resulted from the incident). At the time, he was running for the Mesa City Council. His campaign was further derailed when, shortly after Ready volunteered to act as master of ceremonies at the Mesa Veteran’s Day parade, it came to light that he had been court-martialed and drummed out of the Marines.

      In May 2006, Ready led an anti-illegal immigration group he created, Americans First, in a protest on the Mexican consulate in Phoenix. He told The Arizona Republic, “We are advocating that the government of Mexico should be designated a ‘threat nation’ because they are openly subverting our laws and sovereignty.” Running as the only candidate in a primary later that same year, Ready won a post as GOP precinct committeeman in a west Mesa district. Shortly thereafter, Ready became a prominent volunteer with the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a border-watch group described by then-President George W. Bush as being comprised of “vigilantes.”

      In September 2007, Ready marched under a swastika banner in Omaha, Neb., with brown-shirted members of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement (NSM), a group he would later join. Ready gave a speech at the rally, where he was billed as an “Arizona Republican activist.” That same year, Ready quietly created a profile on the neo-Nazi social networking site New Saxon, run by the NSM, and appeared at the neo-Nazi National Vanguard’s “Winterfest” gathering in Phoenix in December 2007.

      In 2008, these acts came to the attention of Arizona congressmen John Shadegg, Jeff Flake, and Trent Franks. In a letter addressed to the chairman of the local Republican Party, they asked that everything possible be done to expel Ready from his position as GOP precinct committeeman. However, Ready retained his office until his term ran out in 2008, though he did not seek reelection.

      Rejected by the Republican Party, Ready soon found a home with his fellow neo-Nazis, joining the nearly 2,000 registered users of New Saxon as “Viking_Son.” In 2007, his New Saxon profile displayed photographs of Ready wearing a kilt and a bulletproof vest, and scouring the desert for “illegals” through a pair of binoculars. Ready listed his “turn-ons” as “a woman who loves our Race, Kultur [German for culture], Heritage, History and Future,” identified the racist fantasy novel The Turner Diaries as his favorite book, and described himself as a big fan of neo-Nazi teen pop duo Prussian Blue.

      In November 2009, Ready displayed a large portrait of Hitler at an anti-illegal immigration rally held at the state capitol building in Phoenix. When a protester attempted to take the portrait from him, Ready shoved the protester to the ground.

      On June 19, 2010, Ready, now claiming he had left the NSM, took a group of heavily armed civilians into the Vekol Valley in Pinal County, Ariz., a border area noted for drug smuggling and illegal immigration. He described the action as “the Minutemen project on steroids.” Ready and about 10 other civilians, including Harry Hughes, a poster on New Saxon and NSM mailing lists, and NSM regional director Jeff Hall, armed with rifles and pistols, “secured” an abandoned building and led armed “patrols” around the desert.

      Local law enforcement agents did not welcome Ready’s assistance. Paul Babeu, the sheriff of Pinal County, said: “Though I appreciate their support and offer to take up arms and patrol, this would not be helpful, and would only cause a strain on already strained resources, and their safety needs to be a priority. I do not ask or encourage them to come here.”

      That didn’t seem to crimp Ready’s style. In a June 2010 New Saxon forum post, he wrote, “I would eventually like to fund a whole plattoon [sic], full-time, against the Narco-Terrorists. This will take a group effort, however. But we will take it Direct Action against the enemy and kill them (lawfully).” On the New Saxon forums, Ready requested that his supporters donate guns, smoke grenades, and pepper spray to aid the effort.

      Ready claimed to have quit the NSM on July 4, 2010. He told a reporter that he intended to concentrate on the border and his personal life. Ready said he would continue his efforts to stop “narco-terrorism” by leading his self-styled militia, Ready’s Rangers, on patrols in Arizona’s Vekol Valley.

      • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

        Seems to me that a bad conduct discharge precludes one from owning firearms by GCA ’68, so it they want to get this piece of crap off the street, convince a federal prosecutor, any federal prosecutor to put him away. BCD’s, mental defectives, ex-cons, illegal aliens are all banned. Wouldn’t it be a better world if we enforced at least some of those laws we have on the books?

  25. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    Mohandas Gandhi

    Watch and see … it is a revolution against capitalism … and it will succeed. If not now or in the immediate future, over time. Capitalism cannot survive. It will not. Welcome to a new world, you crazies on the right …

    And good morning to you all … Pluto is fine this time of year. We’re especially enjoying the show down on that planet of yours … which is poisoned by capitalism run amok.

    The sage has spoken.

    Go Bills!

    • Capitalism cannot be destroyed, any more than you can destroy the consequence of dropping a rock from a cliff.
      The rock will hit the ground, because gravity is a Universal law.

      It is not a thing that a man invents and then de-invents.
      Capitalism is a consequence of trade between FREE men

      If you want to destroy capitalism, you must enslave men.

      This is why socialist/communists societies always end up as massive prison camps for their people – for to prevent the free trade between men so to enforce your socialism, you must stop free men – thereby enslave them.

      Freedom and Socialism do not co-exist. The rise of one reduces the other.

      • Ever hear of slaves to wages? I know you have. You know you have. We all have. Most of us live that way every day of our lives, admitting it or not. Capitalism is falling apart a little piece at a time .. the rock has dropped from the cliff and broken into a million pieces.

        It’s over, BF … next comes socialism and then the anarchy you crave …

  26. Maybe it’s time for the decent people to admit -that this form of protest isn’t working-it will just get people hurt. Personally, I think the form was intended to lead to violence and a lot of good people are just being used. If you give it much thought at all-all these problems were foreseeable.

    Divisions in the #OccupyOakland Protest Seed Unrest

    By James West on Wed. October 26, 2011 2:50 PM PDT

    Violence came in waves. Many demonstrators peace-saluted police and called through bullhorns: “This is a peaceful protest! This is a civilian movement!” But from the moment I arrived in Oakland at 10:15 p.m., I saw a visible minority spoiling for conflict. Tinder had built across the night at the intersection of 14th Street and Broadway, a mixture of expectation and adrenaline. Protesters had balked at what they saw as disproportionate policing: They’d been teargassed once already. But how to respond was a matter of intense debate in the crowd of about 1,000.

    People shouted each other down while police—as many as 100, in full riot gear, from several different counties—bristled in their formation behind a single metal barricade; news and police helicopters provided the soundtrack. Xavier Manalo, a 25-year-old tennis instructor holding the forward-most protest banner, admitted there were “rogue elements” in the group but insisted the “pressure of the peaceful will be the deterrent” to the violence.

    Manalo was wrong. I saw groups of protestors arguing, not only with the police—who were the constant subject of heckling and catcalls—but with each other. There were calls to retaliate by throwing things like eggs back over the barricade, just as a big group of around 40 people started to chant, “Don’t Throw Shit! Don’t Throw Shit!”

    Time passed and restlessness set in. Another fight broke out in front of me.

    “You don’t need to be splitting this fucking movement!” one man yelled at a guy holding a bullhorn who had been trying to reassure police of the group’s peaceful motives. He was angry that the man with the megaphone had characterized a group of demonstrators as violent. “You don’t have to be doing their fucking work for them!” he yelled.

    No one appeared in control and the group was divided into two groups: the largely peaceful, and a small, visible, determined group of agitators.

    At the height of this melee, I saw two men throw bottles at the police. People screamed and scrambled for air ahead of the inevitable: a half-dozen canisters of tear gas—some crackling and echoing off the Rite Aid building. Caught up in taking pictures, I breathed and choked. It felt like I had swallowed chilies and then rubbed the chilies into my eyes for good measure. I heard reports of rubber bullets and saw demonstrators tending to the distressed. My Twitter feed told me of at least one bloody injury—a man hit in the head with a canister—but the gas made the intersection impossible to rejoin for 10 minutes to confirm injuries.

    A brief lull, then this scene repeated. The group came back together—around 800—with protesters calling to those who were still cowering behind bus shelters or cleaning their eyes to “not be afraid,” to “not run away.” And so it began again: talks, disagreements about engagement, improvised debates about the meaning of nonviolence, and a swirling sense of anticipation.

    The breaker: Another bottle was hurled from the crowd and tear gas canisters were lobbed back. Accord between the protestors had not been reached.

    In the end, the group waned, the police swelled, and there was a steady stalemate at the metal perimeter of the intersection—not only between protesters and police, but also between protesters and other protesters. People circled on bicycles; meditators chanted, eyes clenched; and reporters simply waited.

    “Occupy Oakland is no longer playing a part in this protest,” one officer told me—rogue actors, he suggested, had taken control. And indeed by midnight, the earlier calls for peace had fallen away to catcalls and heckling.

    “We’re losing if we’re losing people,” said a 24-year-old protester who said his first name was LaMarr. “It’s about to be over soon.”

    As the protesters filtered away, I spoke with a group of tired cops covered in blue and orange paint—and that wasn’t all, said one sergeant who wouldn’t give his name. He said they’d also been pelted with glass and vinegar, and one officer claimed to have tasted urine in the mix. So how did tonight compare with others he’s seen? He laughed and said, “Well, it’s not quite a homicide.”

    • VH, read it again. See if it makes sense this go.

      First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
      Mohandas Gandhi

      • I’ll go with the first one- hee hee he -guess I went with the first two 🙂 🙂 How’s life treating you, Charlie?

  27. Buck,

    ut, the problem here is the sheer magnitude of economic disparity/inequality this country is now facing – more than ever before and from the looks of it, it is only getting worse. The problem is not just hey, you have more money than me; the problem goes to equal opportunity. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to succeed (and/or fail). But that is not the case. We are living in a country where the top 1% far outearn the bottom 80%, where income growth for the top 1% has grown by a factor of nearly 275 since the 1970s and, for the rest of us, by only a small fraction of that number, etc. Further, numerous studies show that, the more economic inequality a country faces , the worse off that country is socially speaking — there is more division, less societal cohesion, as economic inequality grows.

    What an completely nonsensical argument!

    You state that inequality is ok, then state it is not ok.

    You make an entirely nonsense claim that the magnitude of difference is a problem, but refuse to explain why this matters at all?

    Why do the size of my wallet make a difference to the size of your wallet???

    You then skid sideways, and jump into some bizarre concept of “opportunity” – and make another ridiculous claim that should be equal too!

    You believe everyone should have a ‘chance’ – but you do not explain why anyone is preventing you from such a chance? Did they jail and chain poor people to a stake in the ground, or what?

    You then skid back into believing -again- that the size of my wallets has some sort of influence on the size of your wallet.

    You quote some studies – yet, for all the research I have reviewed, none of the conclusions hold merit for your argument. The cases that ar reviewed shows massive government and political forces overtly opposing the poor – which to you must mean it has to be the wealth that is the problem and not the men with the guns.

    It is posts like yours that really dishearten me on the fate of the future. A smart guy who is utterly incoherent on wealth and its creation – and promotes horrifically dangerous wealth destruction theories in attempt to fix the problem of lack of capital for the poor.

  28. Talk about going rogue!

    Cain and Gingrich agree to Lincoln-Douglas style debate in The Woodlands

    I like this idea..especially with these two candidates. No moderator, more like a discussion instead of a sound bite collector. I don’t think Bachmann and Paul can win. I don’t like Romney, Perry seems to have dropped back. Seems like it could hurt Cain because Newt knows the issues so well. But it could be the perfect launch for a Cain/Gingrich ticket. I’m looking forward to this ‘debate’.

    • Does sound like they may be considering a President/VP idea. I am disappointed that so far no network is going to show the debate on TV-Wish that would change.

  29. Sounds like anarchy to me-except for that little private ownership thing-BIG-BIG Difference-Who might I ask agree with direct democracy? Besides Charlie that is 🙂

    • Actually-who agrees with anarchy -not libertarianism but anarchy? Besides BF 🙂 Who agrees completely with libertarianism?

      • One more thing-BF’s anarchy-I may not agree that it is the best way to go-I do at least believe it is actually possible to attempt to have a society without governmental control. But this direct democracy-I don’t see how it is even possible to force people to share everything they have-without total control over the individuals involved.

        • V.H.

          But this direct democracy-I don’t see how it is even possible to force people to share everything they have-without total control over the individuals involved

          As long as you advocate the use of violence on non-violent people, you will create tyranny

          It matters not how many hands wave in the air for or against my ideas – if you believe you can force YOUR ideas on me, humanity has a serious problem

  30. I know a lot of people think this isn’t important-that it will just go away-But I think it is an opportunity -they are out there in the open showing what they truly support -if they go away-they will still be there working-it just won’t be as open.

  31. Let me see if this old fart understands this correctly; One religion is suing another religion because that religion’s icon is deemed offensive by them?

    Is that something like the pot calling the kettle black?

    What a waste of lawyers and courts.

    (yeah, yeah . . . I know that I haven’t been around lately. But I just had to ask that anyway . . .)

  32. Bbrraaavvvoooo, Brraavvooo, Bravooo!! [Sounds of crowd whistling and jeering very loudly] Weapon, what have you done? Your writing on “The Catholic University” is spectacular! Not an i undotted, nor a t uncrossed. I think that both you and I know my feelings about this as well as other issues regarding people of all ethnic, racial, intellectual, or geophysical beliefs. What really gets me is sort of what papadawg was saying; moreover, why or what is it that draws people to a place where either by innuendo or by stupidity goes against “their” customs and ways. I just spent the last two hours reading The Quran and its laws and regulations that provide for a Halal diet. Outrageous!!

    Now then another issue I’ll continue to write about is the notion of free speech which I believe is taking more crap than Catholic University. The latest rulings by incompetent judges has now gotten under my skin. However — and everyone listen up — it’s as you stated, it is these kinds of people and their special interests that will be the downfall of America. Cheers and gr8 writing.


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