Wednesday open mic

Looks like we could us a blank page.  Was looking for a topic to start with, it’s humpday!  Would like to cancel Thursday and Friday…  Came across an article on the Stimulus, remember Obama decrying the need to stimulate the economy?  Anyone else feel like they’ve been screwed?

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Stimulus-Grants-Fund-Erectile-Dysfunction-And-Sexual-Habits-Studies-151195105.html

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Comments

  1. A Catholic university in Ohio said Tuesday it is being forced to end a student health insurance program over the Obama administration’s contraception mandate and costs associated with other provisions of the health care overhaul.

    Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio, said it has so far excluded contraceptive services and products from its health insurance policy for students and will not participate in a plan that “requires us to violate the consistent teachings of the Catholic Church on the sacredness of human life.”

    In its decision to drop coverage, the school cited the contraception mandate, but also a requirement that the maximum coverage amount be increased to $100,000 for policyholders — claiming that would have made premiums skyrocket. A university official told Fox News Radio the students’ basic $600 policy was going to double in cost in the fall and triple next year and that the school’s insurance provider said the increases were the result of the federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/15/catholic-university-drops-student-health-insurance-cites-obamacare/#ixzz1v2ROa6Js

  2. Conservative filmmaker James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas released a new video on Tuesday that contains several stabs at voter fraud in North Carolina.

    One part demonstrates that non-U.S. citizens living in the United States can register to vote by falsely claiming to be citizens — and have done so — and that those illegally registered voters can obtain ballots at polling places.

    Public records also show that one of those individuals cast votes in North Carolina in 2008 and 2010.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/15/new-okeefe-video-exposes-non-citizens-on-voter-rolls-in-nc-voter-fraud-comfort-at-unc/#ixzz1v2U2yBli

    • FACT CHECK: ‘Non-Citizen’ Voter In James O’Keefe’s Voter Fraud Video Is Actually A Citizen

      http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/15/484462/james-o-keefe-voter-fraud-north-carolina/?mobile=nc

      (Issue of lying on a jury summons is still out there – albeit a different issue).

      • The episode does speak to a larger underlying problem with most accusations of voter fraud. It’s what I call the “Scooby Doo routine”. People like O’Keefe make wild voter fraud accusations like non-citizens voting, only to discover a much simpler explanation for the situation. (In O’Keefe’s article, it says they asked this guy directly, to his face, if he was a US citizen? He did not answer. He did not have to answer either, but he did have a chance to respond and set the record straight)

        In this case, O’Keefe is using “evidence” of foreigners voting in American elections to supposedly demonstrate the need for draconian security measures like voter ID, which could disenfranchise 20 million citizens across the country. However, his evidence actually shows nothing more than an American citizen exercising his civic duty. (Lying to get out of jury duty is considered a civic duty now? Isn’t it perjury? He has now admitted to a crime and won’t it be funny if they start comparing court records to voting records and go after these deadbeat soto-citizens? Civic duty, pah)

    • Just A Citizen says:

      I heard on the radio this morning that a new poll (Rasmussen I think) shows that 60% of Blacks SUPPORT a requirement for a picture ID to be shown at the polling place in order to vote.

      Voter ID is OK for 60% of Black Americans………Go figure. Who would have know there were that many Black people who are RACISTS against their own race.

  3. 8)

    • gmanfortruth says:

      🙂

    • A married man left from work early one Friday afternoon. Instead of going home, however, he squandered the weekend (and his paycheck) partying with the boys.
      When he finally returned home on Sunday night, he ran into a barrage of epithets from his wife. After a couple of hours of nagging and berating, his wife asked “How would you like it if you didn’t see me for a couple of days?!?”
      “That would suit me just fine!!” the man said.
      Monday went by, and the man didn’t see his wife.
      Tuesday went by with the same result.
      Wednesday went by with the same result.
      Thursday, the swelling went down a bit and he could see her a little, just out of the corner of his left eye.

      Moral of the story: Don’t come up missing for too long again BF! 😉

      • 😀

        • Relying on an alternative set of jobs numbers, embattled Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker is touting job creation during his term in office, saying numbers from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics — which show Wisconsin losing jobs during that period — are not accurate.

          The new numbers from the Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages, released by the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development, calculate that Wisconsin added more than 23,000 jobs between December 2010 and December 2011, the first full year of Walker’s term.

          “The Democrats actually are now reduced to attacking the DWD [Department of Workforce Development] for the timing of the release,” said Wisconsin Republican strategist Brian Schimming.

          “You can’t take issue with the accuracy of the numbers,” he said, noting that “the original numbers report is always revised.”

          He added, tongue-in-cheek, that the numbers are “prepared by unionized civil service people, and apparently they are now in on the plot” to oust Walker.

          Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/16/wisconsins-own-stats-support-walkers-claims-of-job-gains/#ixzz1v42gARVt

    • Hey BF –

      Give us a little peek through your eyes on the ways of the world.

      • Gold is $1533 an ounce. I can guess what he’s thinking…. And I agree thanks to his lessons.

      • As predicted, Greece is going to default, and leave the Euro.
        Spain and Portugal will follow closely behind, then Italy.

        France needs an austerity program, so they elected the spendeasy Socialists. You can guess what that will do….

        Germany is left holding the bag, so they will punt the whole thing. The Euro=German Deutschmark…

        All of this will drive the world’s economies crazy. Everything will be in turmoil with all sorts of confusion. Do not lose your job.

        Suggestions:
        1. Move to Texas or North Dakota or Montana – oil, oil, oil.
        1A. Get the hell outta California, New York or any Eastern State. Big troubles comin’ (see Detroit)
        2. Buy cheap houses in those oil States near the pipelines and oil fields and rent them out. money.money.money
        3. Buy gold in regular, budgeted amounts and ignore the price. Just do it.

  4. Stolen from PapaDawg’s site. I realize it’s a little dramatic but it never hurts to be a hawk for the message..this is Stand Up For America, right?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=JVAhr4hZDJE&vq=medium#t

  5. I scream, you scream, we all scream, WHAT THE fudgesicle!!!
    http://www.lowellsun.com/todaysheadlines/ci_20635020/ice-cream-spot-hits-rocky-road

  6. As recently as a week ago, Deb Fischer was dismissed by the establishment. Why? Because she is not part of the good old boys’ permanent political class. The message from the people of Nebraska is simple and powerful: America is looking for real change in Washington, and commonsense conservatives like Deb Fischer represent that change. I applaud Moms like Deb Fischer who are bold enough to step up and run on a conservative platform to restore America and protect our children’s future. Congratulations to the people of Nebraska. As the Huskers’ fight song goes: “The eyes of the land, upon every hand, are looking at you. Fight on for victory!”

    There is a populist storm brewing. The tea party base is aroused, focused, and will turn out in elections. Media fantasies about its demise are based on the shallowest of perceptions. The populist uprising is in its second phase; having rallied and ascertained they are not alone, and effortlessly connected by the internet in real time, government downsizers are organizing and turning out.

    Update: Next up: Texas. John Kraushaar of National Journal explains:

    The next big contest is shaping up in Texas, where conservatives have rallied around former state Solicitor General Ted Cruz against establishment-favored Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst. Dewhurst, by virtue of a deep war chest and connections to Texas politicos, is expected to comfortably finish in first place in the May 29 primary. Cruz, for his part, hasn’t yet translated the outside conservative excitement in his polling, still lagging a distant second.

    But Cruz-backers are anticipating Dewhurst will draw less than 50 percent of the vote, a scenario that would prompt a July 31 runoff. Under that scenario, Cruz (if he finishes second) would be able to make the race into a one-on-one fight between the establishment and the grassroots.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/nebraska_stuns_gop_establishment.html#ixzz1v3vHlC4F

  7. gmanfortruth says:

    We have reached a nice milestone today. With the bottling of our honeydew melon brandy, we have achieved over 120 bottles of brandy on our shelves. We have 14 flavors and need more bottles to continue 🙂 The garden is growing great again and we have a pig at the butchers. With ten peeps coming, the chicken coop will be expanded and we will be making some chicken soup real soon.

    I’m not expecting many problems where I’m at in the future, even if the economy totally collapses, but we are ready. I do love this country living! 🙂

  8. Judy Sabatini says:

    Hey all, just stopping in to say hi, & hope you’re all doing good. I haven’t been on here much lately, although I do try & read the articles & comments when I can. You see, my mom suffered a stroke back in March & for a while there, it didn’t look good, didn’t think she’d make it, but, after this last month & a 1/2, she’s doing remarkably better, still have a few issues we’re working on, but, other wise she’s going so much better, & with her having Dementia, well, we’re still working on getting her back to the way her memory was, it’s getting there, but, it’s going to take time. Just taking it one day at a time. She was having trouble swallowing for a while there, but today, had a swallow test to see if she could eat regular foods, instead of pureed foods & having to drink nectar thick liquids, she passed that test, & is now eating regular foods & drinking regular liquids. So many tests,& doctors visits, but now all that is done & over with & she can just relax & enjoy her life once again. There are a couple people here that knew, & I want to thank them so very much for their kind words & prayers for my mom. They know who they are. I would have said something much sooner, but I wanted to make sure she was okay before I did, she is, so I did. I will try to participate more in the future when I can.

    Take Care, & Love & Hugs to all.

    Judy

    • Judy,

      It is nice to see you back. Have missed you. Sorry to hear about your mother’s problems but glad she is doing better. So much of it depends on attitude. My Mom has broken her hip, pelvis and a few ribs but refuses to stop. Just today she took her walker out and placed it on top of the trash can and took the can to the street, then used the walker to get back in the house. Not bad for an 88 year old. I wish my wife had half her determination. Take care and hope to see more of you on here.

      • Judy Sabatini says:

        Thanks T-Ray. My mom can’t walk that long really, she doesn’t use a walker in the house, too many stairs to deal with &have to use a wheel chair when we go places, but, she gets around the house pretty good. We still have some confusion on certain things, but, guess that’s to be expected with the Dementia & still recovering from her stroke. But,like I said, she’s doing better & is able to do some things on her own now. My mom will be 90 this August. Glad to hear your mom is doing good.

        You take Care as well my friend.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Glad to hear your mother is doing better. You and your family are in my thoughts.

  9. Look guys and gals. This is how it is. Let’s forget Obama’s stance on ANYTHING Social. Nothing about Gays or Abortion, Let’s just look at where we are headed as a Nation financially. At the end of the year we will have almost a 2 TRILLION dollar deficit to go with our 16 TRILLION dollar debt. It is already taking almost half, that’s 50%, of our Gross Domestic Product, just to SERVICE, or pay the interest on, this debt. And all I hear Obama and the Democratic Reps in Congress talk about is spending even more!

    How do we pay for it? Where is the money going to come from? Are we going to borrow it? It’s nice to talk of having the interest on your school loan dropped or maybe having it forgiven. It’s nice to speak of the Govt refinancing your house for you and even taking some of the loan of your back. It’s most especially nice to go on and on about the Feds paying for your Health Insurance and you no longer having to pay for medical care. But, the truth is, all this has to be paid for by SOMEONE!

    OK, you say, we’ll tax the rich more. It has been proven even by DEMOCRATIC, Progressive Economists, that you can tax every person it the U.S. who makes over $1,000,000 a year 100% of their salaries for the next twenty years and we STILL would be unable to pay even the interest on that much debt. So what does that mean in the great scheme of things? It means we cannot AFFORD all those freebies you are expecting from Obama and the Democrats. AND THEY KNOW IT! But instead of dealing with it, they want to keep kicking that can down the road so that either another Administration and Congress can deal with it or if we go on that long our kids can.

    And folks, we still have to do something about the unsustainable Medicaire you are all up in arms about and the Social Security that will be bankrupt 3 years earlier than predicted (2033 instead of 2036). So what is it gonna be?

    We’re gonna have to take our medicine sooner or later. We can either get ourselves out of this mess we are in NOW. Or it’s going to take care of our Country we left to our kids LATER. And I don’t hear any Democrats standing up and willing to take it on now, do you? I only hear a few Republican’s! And they are being shouted down by the rest and blocked by the Senate and Obama.

    I keep saying Obama because it is ultimately HIS responsibility, just like it was Bush’s when he was the President. He has run up more debt in 3 years than Bush did in the Eight he was in Office. His economic policies DO NOT WORK. And there is years and years of History in Europe and Russia and everywhere else that PROVES it doesn’t!!!!!!!

    But don’t listen to me. Let’s just keeping rolling with the flow because our President is a Rock Star who has never had a job and has never governed ANYTHING. Let’s stick with the one who gives good speeches and supports all the freebies that you all want so badly. And be sure and tell you kids that they don’t have a future because you wanted to take it easy and have it all handed to you instead of working for it. Maybe you won’t look back and regret. But at least SOME of us will.

    • Esom,

      I think most of us here agree with you. Unfortunately there are many in Congress who think that the debt is the national treasure. I would think the chaos in Europe would scare the hell out of them but they continue to stay the course. Indiana and Nebraska have provided some rays of hope but they are slim compared to the magnitude of the problem. We need a wholesale change in the membership of Congress but I suspect that the big city machines will prevent that and will return many of the old guard back to power. I have never understood why some of the old fossils just cannot retire. Why stay until they are carried out? Feinstein is running again here in CA. I wish she would just retire but there is not much chance in moving her out of office.

      Here in CA we have our own problems. As could have been predicted, the state is once again in dire financial trouble. But they refuse to make massive cuts in the multiple layers of bureaucracy. The only places they seem to be able to cut is in education, fire and police. We are installing a $1.6M deer tunnel under US50 not more than 7 miles from my house. Even the local papers and TV stations are questioning this expenditure. But naturally, nothing can stop it.

      Canada, Sweden and few other countries have shown how to reduce taxes, cut spending and dramatically improve their economies, but we will not learn from their examples. We would rather follow the European model into bankruptcy.

      Even Paul Ryan’s budget is too timid in my view. We should be slashing whole departments. All programs should be looked at for overlap with others and for effectiveness. Ineffective programs should be simply eliminated. Duplicate programs should be merged and budgets drastically cut.

      Until Congress decides to go back to basics, the problems will continue. It is too easy to just buy votes with the national credit card.

      On the subject of social issues, I agree. I think that Romney, if he is the anointed one, should ignore the social issues and concentrate on the financial problem, foreign policy, and constitutional government.

      • Mornin’ T.

        I just don’t get the fascination with him. With his Rock Star status. He has done nothing but KILL this economy for 3 and a half years. But some just love him to death. Some in my own family are like that.

        And Lord, all I hear from them is how Romney and those evil Republicans are gonna take their mama and daddy’s SS and Medicare away from them. They are going to let the poor just starve and lose all they have. I always ask them to NAME ONE, just one Republican that has said that. And they can’t. But that doesn’t mean anything. They STILL believe it because that’s what the Great One said.

        And oh! He needs four more years for his programs to begin to work and his economic policies to begin improving the economy. Really? How’s that working out for The EU I say? Show me one place anywhere in the world where Keynesian Economics has worked. Show me somewhere Socialism has worked! Again, they can’t. But they still think that Republican Boogeyman’s gonna take all their freebies.

        THAT, I even agreed with some. But, as I explained, with the economy like it is. The debt and deficits like they are. The UNSUSTAINABLE debt we already have, the cuts are gonna eventually HAVE to take place. And they are going to hurt. But if Obama and the Democrats keep going like they are, we will have an economic collapse like we have NEVER seen. That will make the great depression look like boom times.

        And that is already almost on us. The EU is going down and they will drag us with them. Let’s see how they like not having a job at all, with NO BENEFITS or FREEBIES at all! Let’s see how they enjoy third world poverty. Where’s Obama going to be then? Think he’ll still be a Rock Star?

    • gmanfortruth says:

      ESOM, I have a T-shirt that says OMG Obama Must Go! I thought Carter was bad, but this clown makes him look great. Both are great examples of the failure of liberalism. Maybe if more people could see this, we wouldn’t have the problems that we have. As long as we continue to send our kids to the indoctrination centers (public schools and colleges) this problem will never go away.

      • Yeah, it’s funny, but most of the family I have that are Obama freakos are young college graduates. Some are older, but most are around 20’s to mid 30’s. And then I have the bane of probably all families, the gutter trash. The one’s who LIVE on the freebies from the Government.

        I actually have a brother and sister-in-law who have never worked a day in their freakin’ lives. Now they claim to be disabled and are trying to get disability. And I wonder why I am having so much trouble getting it. I worked my behind off right up until my health collapsed. They do nothing yet they get $700 in food stamps, and at the end of every year they get anywhere from a 6 to 8 THOUSAND dollar tax refund. And they don’t even work!!!!!!

        And it’s not just on my wife’s side either. There are some on my side too. It’s unbelievable. I can’t wait till the day them chickens come home to roost! I’m gonna laugh my behind off!

        I will survive. I instilled in my boys consevative values and a good work ethic. You don’t get anything free. Ain’t nothin’ handed to you. You work for what you get or you don’t get. Period. We will make it. I don’t think they will. They will sit down and whine because they no longer have that hand out coming.

        And it’s not going to come from me.

  10. HMMMM! Wonder if this is true? If it is, they are in…..for…..it!

    http://personalliberty.com/2012/05/16/arrested-for-taking-pictures-tortured-for-being-a-teabagger/

    • Appears to be true. UTube video doesn’t say much except the town did not respond to the lawsuit as required. They may pay out 70 million because their attorney didn’t file the paperwork for months. Sadly, I believe that sheriffs dept. did pretty much torture her for taking legal photo’s, having a legal firearm, and acting strangely….
      Great find Esom!!!

      http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/genovese.asp

      • This is where the “1984” parallels come in. This is the land of Peter King where we have to be scared, really scared about those foreign terrorists and worried, really worried about all our home grown terrorists.

        I love cops and have tremendous respect for them but these suburban twits are all caught up in the hero stuff these days. I keep seeing muscles on muscles, shaved heads, and bits and pieces of militarized clothing constantly appear in their wardrobes and let’s not forget the weaponry. Most of my local suburban NJ PD’s seem to need full auto MP-5’s these days to meet and counter the “threat”. Does anyone seriously doubt there might be some “roid” rage at work here. They believe their own propaganda and feel they should be immune from criticism. They seem to serve and protect all right, serve and protect ….. themselves.

        Had the event taken place in nearby Westchester county, it is quite likely, based on what’s happened there in the last year or so that Ms. Genovese would have wound up shot and the DA would have guaranteed it was a justified shooting.

        • I loved the part where they accused her of being a “teabagging terrorist”. Racism? Sounds like it. I hope she gets every dime. Talk about abuse of power and office! Every cop involved and every person involved should be terminated. After being treated like that, I would have no mercy.

      • I actually found it on my FB page.

  11. Mathius says:
    • 1) Agree that Cameron goes overboard

      2) I’ve heard the gay rumor..don’t know if it’s true..he’s the baby daddy but he does look rather fragile, and Michelle definitely wears the pants in the family…and with his history of deception…well let’s just leave it there 😉

    • I don’t doubt for a minute that O has been involved sexually with members of the same sex. Too much “smoke” in that area for there not to be some “fire”.

  12. Over the last six years members from the Make it Safe Coalition (MISC) have arranged
    an assembly of Whistleblowers in Washington,DC each year for an annual conference
    originally known as Washington Whistleblower’s Week. The ACORN 8 and the USDA
    Coalition of Mionrity Employees will co-­‐host this year’sWhistleblower Summit on
    Civil & Human Rights.

    This year’s theme is WoW…Obama—fighting the War on Whistleblowers and Women.
    We are proud to announce that MSNBC Host Dylan Ratigan has agreed to participate
    and that the PACIFICA Radio Network will broadcast the historic event nationally this year.

    The Pillar Human Rights Award for International Person’s of Conscience will be awarded to notable civil and human rights champions.The international press may cover the event as well.

    Monday

    The Opening Plenary and Panel Discussion will take place in the
    Dirksen Building Senate Judiciary Hearing Room on May 21, 2012 (12:00—4:00 PM).Followed by Welcome Reception and Art Auction at the Mott House on May21, 2012 (5:00—7:00 PM)

    Tuesday

    A Press Conference on the Mall at the Martin Luther King Memorial will be held on May 22, 2012 (11:00—2:00 PM). Followed by Historic Whistleblower Book Signing and Film Screening at Busboy’s & Poets (14th and V. Street)on May 22, 2012(4:00—8:00 PM).Notable authors, whistleblowers and advocates include Tom Devine, the Whistleblowers Survival Guide; Michael McCray, ACORN8: Race, Power & Politics, and Eyal Press, Beautiful Souls.

    Wednesday

    Civil and Human Rights Roundtable on the War on Women,and the War on Whistleblowers will be held at the Mott House on May 23, 2012 (10:00—2:00 PM). ACORN 8, USDA Coalition of Minority Employees and the MISC are an assortment of various public interest/advocacy groups. For more information call 202.370.6635 or 703.743.0565 or for more information please visit the ACORN8.com website.

  13. Euros being dumped at an alarming rate today…..and no one is buying.

  14. Now what is this? His literary agent used this brochure with this bio info? Hmmm. Of course, as we now know via that always honorable Cherokee Woman, Lizzie, that what we say we are, isn’t always what we really are! But certainly interesting! Keep up the vetting!

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

    • gmanfortruth says:
    • Now, that is cool!

    • You know I ALMOST hope it turns out to be true and blows up in his face like an IED! I only say almost because I don’t know how much harm it would do to the Nation.

      There is no way to just “let” him be President anyway. NO WAY. It is in the Constitution that he has to be born it the U.S. and there ain’t NO other “interpretation” to it! To change it would require way more states to approve than they are gonna get.

      So then what would happen? Well, I would think that he would automatically be out as President and Biden would take over. That would make Romney pretty much a shoe-in. I don’t think even the most radical Progressive wants that moron to be the President. He’s is the biggest reason not try to assasinate Obama. As a matter of fact considering the damage it would have caused, I’m kind of suprised Some terrorist group or so haven’t tried that.

      Now back to Obama! After he was expelled from office then what happens? Has anyone ever thought about that? Come on. I’m not saying it will happen OR be true. I’m simply asking what would happen if it were! He would at the very least guilty of deceiving the American people to get elected. For that matter more besides him would be guilty of that. So, impeachment or just resignation and then prosecution? For Treason? Fraud? Some kind of Deception charge? And what about all the decisions he has made and all of his EO’s? I would think ALL of them would have to be thrown out. Yes, including ObamaCare! 🙂

      I wonder because nothing like that will have never happened before. And I don’t know about ya’ll, but I would be PISSED! I, for one, would want him tries for Treason against the United States. But what do YOU think? Come on, somebody, respond!

  15. And what is up with Biden? Has he truly lost it? The second coming of Dean the Screamer?

    “THEY DON’T GET US”

    You got that right, Joe!

    • No..You don’t get it Joe! First you say that you can dream to be anything you want to be..sky is the limit. Then you turn around and backstab the guy who made it by making him the villian because he’s rich and taxing the daylights out of him.

  16. Unemployment Definition

    Abbott and Costello — the government hasn’t changed….

    COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America .

    ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible times. It’s 9%.

    COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

    COSTELLO: You just said 9%.

    ABBOTT: 9% Unemployed.

    COSTELLO: Right 9% out of work.

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 16%.

    COSTELLO: Okay, so it’s 16% unemployed.

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 9%…

    COSTELLO: Wait a minute . Is it 9% or 16%?

    ABBOTT: 9% are unemployed. 16% are out of work.

    COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.

    ABBOTT: No, you can’t count the “Out of Work” as the unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.

    COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK !

    ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.

    COSTELLO: What point?

    ABBOTT: Someone who doesn’t look for work, can’t be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn’t be fair.

    COSTELLO: To whom?

    ABBOTT: The unemployed.

    COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.

    ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work. Those who are out of work stopped looking. They gave up. And, if you give up, you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.

    COSTELLO: So if you’re off the unemployment roles, that would count as less unemployment?

    ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!

    COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don’t look for work?

    ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down.. That’s how you get to 9%. Otherwise it would be 16%. You don’t want to read about 16% unemployment do ya?

    COSTELLO: That would be frightening.

    ABBOTT: Absolutely.

    COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means they’re two ways to bring down the unemployment number?

    ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.

    COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?

    ABBOTT: Correct.

    OSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a job?

    ABBOTT: Bingo.

    COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.

    ABBOTT: Now you’re thinking like an economist.

    COSTELLO: I don’t even know what the hell I just said !

    And now you know why Obama’s unemployment figures are improving!

  17. Finally! A solution to the world’s problems. These crazies say we’re going to need TWO EARTH’S to sustain the world’s population. Let’s just blast all the lefties, greenies, commies, all the ‘ies’…blast them off to the other Earth! Then the rest of us can live happily ever after!

    WWF Living Planet Report Warns That By 2030 Two Earths Will Be Needed To Sustain Our Lifestyles
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/16/wwf-warns-that-we-will-need-two-earths-by-2030_n_1520449.html

    W.T.F. ?

  18. gmanfortruth says:

    Liberal media lies are coming apart at the seams, which usually happens if we wait long enough 🙂

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/

  19. naten53 says:

    Was just in Wisconson the last two days for work, despite an ongoing election, I only noticed political signs in yards in support of Scott Walker, no signs against him. Actually the only sign I saw without his name was one that said: “RECALL SANTA, I didn’t get what I wanted”

    • Oooh, you shoulda called – I’d treated you to a cold brew from one of our great local breweries! Location, location, location! I’m guessing you weren’t in the Madison area and/or inner city Milwaukee? Those are the main delusional areas of the state; the rest are finally starting to understand simple economics and union thuggery. Another school district in this area just left the union sponsored WEAC insurance (manditory pre-Act 10), and saved the district $800,000 with no change in benefits. That kind of savings is hard to ignore.

  20. Crazy stuff going on! Is O’s life just a composite? Thought up by Bill Ayers to write a book? Lizzie Warren submitted a mexican dish to the Pow Wow cookbook; is she also 1/32 Hispanic? Van Jones is knocking on Holder and F&F – WTH? O “came out” recently – is that Hilary’s plan too with her new au naturale look? The good ol’ Rev. Wright – my oh my! O might be understanding, “chickens coming home to roost” now! And then Joe – the smart VP candidate – where to begin?

    Beautiful day here in WI! Would love to be on the golf course but a HS grad party is just around the corner and the “to do” list is calling my name. Have a good weekend SUFA!

    • charlieopera says:

      Just think, Kathy. You’ll be able to make fun of him for another 4 years come November …

      • Mathius says:

        I wonder if they’re going to still be saying he needs to be vetted in year 8?

        • charlieopera says:

          No, they’ll have to switch gears and prepare for the presidential hand-off to Hillary, which may keep Christie from ballooning (couldn’t resist) into the race. So long as the tea party maintains the influence they’ve had on the GOP, it’ll be one Democrat in the White House after another …

          • Nice to see you still have your dream machine running Charlie. But I’m afraid that if Obama gets another 4, probably even if Romney beats him, we won’t HAVE a Country in 4 more years. Not that we recognize anyway. Not one I will probably want to still live in though I don’t have a choice. 👿

            • charlieopera says:

              You always have a choice … see B.F.

              • No Charlie. I don’t have to see BF. I don’t have to ask someone if I’m in the financial situation to LEAVE THE COUNTRY. I don’t CARE what BF says. I can’t afford to leave now. How would I possibly leave AFTER the Nation imploded? I have children and a wife. I have family. Responsibilities. Maybe if, no certainly if I was alone, but I’m not.

                I am in bad enough shape both physically AND financially now. And besides, where would I go? Canada? Maybe. Mexico? Are you Kidding?

                No. I’m afraid I would be one of those millions STUCK HERE to live with whatever happened. At least I won’t be alone. Maybe I would be in the middle of a Civil War. Maybe that would be a better scenario anyway.

              • And besides that Sir Charles. You are kidding yourself if you think there will or would only be a succession of Democrats in the White House. Especially if we turned Socialist. I wouldn’t expect that to last long.

  21. gmanfortruth says:

    Jon, As I mentioned before, I’m starting a new business. I wrote an article on it with a link to the new website. Advice is always welcome.

    All of SUFA, this link is not intended for political discussion, although having a way of getting government out of my life even more could be a good thing 🙂

    http://gmanfortruth.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/a-new-adventure/

  22. charlieopera says:

    @Esom:

    I feel your pain, but wonder why there isn’t all that charity the right so often points to as the great salvation of those in need? Social Darwinism isn’t all its cranked up to be, I hope you’re seeing that … and I do wish you luck. I doubt it’s your fault things aren’t in your favor but that’s one problem when all the power stays at the top of the food chain.

    • I am disabled Charlie. It’s nobody’s fault. I worked my rear end off for about the past 35 years or so. But my heart and my back (hereditary) have just fallen apart. Partially from the work I used to do. But now I can’t stand OR sit more than 15 minutes at a time and at least once a day I have to Lay down. This coupled with my Heart problems means I cannot hold a job.

      But there are some charities to help, just not financially. We can get free Groceries occasionally. And there are folks out there that help some. My boys help with the house and yard. And my church helps. But I wouldn’t expect ANYONE or ANY charity to support us.

      That is what I paid taxes for. For SS and Disability in case something like this happened. And I also had long term Disability that I paid for when I worked. We just have 100% bills on 60% Salary. Until we can knock that down some, it’s just the way it is.

      But I still fail to see the logic behind us ALL being equally poor. All Socialism is is having all the power in the Government. Everyone else is poor. Except of course for the Superrich, like George Soros. Those folks would still be rich. They are the power behind the scenes. Haven’t you ever heard him talk? He makes no secret of it. And there are more just like him, just not as flamboyant with it. What do you do about them? No one either can or will touch them because, they have the money and they make the rules, by corruption if no other reason.

      No Charlie, I don’t see how your way would be better.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Esom, Charlies utopia has already been proven a disaterous failure! He just never got that message, We will be laughing at him and those like him within a year or so! Their Liberal talk is cheap and falling on deaf ears, cuz they can’t match out firepower 👿

      • charlieopera says:

        But I still fail to see the logic behind us ALL being equally poor. All Socialism is is having all the power in the Government. Everyone else is poor. Except of course for the Superrich, like George Soros. Those folks would still be rich. They are the power behind the scenes. Haven’t you ever heard him talk? He makes no secret of it. And there are more just like him, just not as flamboyant with it. What do you do about them? No one either can or will touch them because, they have the money and they make the rules, by corruption if no other reason.

        Why does everyone have to be poor? Why is the assumption so bleak? George Soros, Esom, lives in America. America is in the shape it’s in today because of capitalism; because money has always been and always will be concentrated in the hands of the few and they get to call the shots (own the government). Why should anyone have so much power/money when it is impossible for them to earn it?

        Free markets create slaves (workers). Why are you so willing to be a slave to an owner?

        All the work you did over the years added value to your employer; it wasn’t just “his” work that made wherever you worked a successful business; the shareholders had little to do with it outside of investment (they risked what? Money? You obviously risked much more than that).

        And if Obama was any more a moderate Republican than he’s already been, he could run on both tickets.

        I wish you well, brother.

        @gman. Yeah, your firepower just failed miserably in Europe. All that austerity and nothing has changed. France voted in a socialist. Good for them!

        • Hey Canolli man………………………….

          And France will die on the vine……just like Greece. The Euro is dead. Go try to buy one now. Go and try to trade them now and see what you get. Greece cannot get another dime, France, Spain, and Italy will be next. Go try to trade, right this minute for Euros…..anyone who owns one will dump it as soon as they find a sucker out there. The only European investment right now is the German DM……

          And the Face book guys……I guess you are upset at them. The insiders saved for seven years to get their IPO’s…..and they are now worth millions….thanks to the users of Facebook. A $30,000 investment turned into 16 billion. Amazing. ( On paper of course ) All these countries will be eating out of garbage cans soon.

          • charlieopera says:

            Good morning, Colonel!

            I knew that post would get a rise out of you, sir. But you point too soon, sir. We also will be eating from garbage cans soon. It’s just a matter of time. $30,000 to $16,000,000,000 isn’t amazing, sir. What is amazing is the 17 or 18% of real unemployed marvel at the American Dream (which has become a lottery ticket). Amazing is how soon all the college degrees (and the mortgages that funded them) will come home to roost … because their options are work at Targe or Walmart or join the crusade. Sooner or later, the crusade will happen and there will be cannoli for everyone!

        • gmanfortruth says:

          The French voted for government cookies, which they did not EARN. Sounds alot like Democrats here 🙂

  23. @ Charlie…………..I will also agree with you and Mathius….unless Romney and the Republicans quit this being nice guy routine and fight the Dems with the same tactics…….they, the repubs will lose. I am older than you guys…and I have seen elections…lived through the Nixon and Carter years and I have never seen an election and power grab like now. Never. The corruption of the Obama Administration and their puppet master Soros…..is amazing and very dangerous and will go down in history as the most corrupt even one Hoover and Wilson and Roosevelt.

    • charlieopera says:

      And here I join with BF … both parties are as corrupt as the day is long and the day is long because both parties are owned by the 1%. They throw different shades of bone (tokens) at a populace that spends far too much time playing video games and joining in the political nonsense that passes for discourse. The Reps sell the American Dream as something other than a lottery ticket (yeah, right). The Dems sell “fighting for the little guy” and do what the Republicans do/did. Obama took the Bush torch and has been marching with it for 3.5 years now. I can’t imagine what the beef is you guys have with Obama. He’s a republican in drag.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Charlie, I agree, the whole political system is corrupt. The problem is that it is inherant tha political systems end up corrupt, even your beloved Communism and any form of socialism.

        • charlieopera says:

          True dat, except the little guy actually does get a cut of the pie in MY socialism … not the abortions you’ll point to. Your version of dystopia (capitalism) will have the chickens coming home to roost soon enough.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            That maybe true, when capitalism dies, it will take so much wealth with that there won’t be any for you guys to steal 😆

          • Yoou’re never going to see your Idea of Socialism Charlie, because it doesn’t and will not exist. Just like the the rest of us will never see real capitalism like we want. The corrupt superrich will ALWAYS control Government. Corruption is to tekoting to do away with it.

      • Yes, Charlie – but for a small difference in our premises, we definitely do see the same crimes against the people.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        “That’s A Great Description of ALL DEMOCRATS Charlie!” – Barney Frank

        • Just A Citizen says:

          PeterB

          I have been trying to “enlighten” some Warmers on the FACTS of climate change.

          There was a reference awhile back about temps over the last decade being cooler with this past March also being cool. Now there is reports that March was the “hottest on record”.

          Do you have some citations I could check out and possibly use in my arguments?

          • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

            Spencer and Christie analyze the UAH satellite temperature record on a monthly basis. It is the most reliable and closest to real-time continuous monitor of the global lower-tropospheric temperature. The March UAH satellite temperature average for the United States was +3.28 degrees (WOW!) which probably was an all-time record, but GLOBALLY the March temperature average was only +0.21 degrees, which is nowhere near a record, and also means that outside of the US, the remainder of the globe was, on average, damn cold. Google Dr. Roy Spencer.

  24. Just A Citizen says:

    In my opinion, a good piece on freedom and liberty. And why some of us get it and others do not.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/the_vanishing_feeling_of_freedom.html

    • When the looter is the government

      By George F. Will, Published: May 18

      TEWKSBURY, Mass.

      Russ Caswell, 68, is bewildered: “What country are we in?” He and his wife, Pat, are ensnared in a Kafkaesque nightmare unfolding in Orwellian language.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-government-is-the-looter/2012/05/18/gIQAUIKVZU_story.html

      This town’s police department is conniving with the federal government to circumvent Massachusetts law — which is less permissive than federal law — to seize his livelihood and retirement asset. In the lawsuit titled United States of America v. 434 Main Street, Tewksbury, Massachusetts, the government is suing an inanimate object, the motel Caswell’s father built in 1955. The U.S. Department of Justice intends to seize it, sell it for perhaps $1.5 million and give up to 80 percent of that to the Tewksbury Police Department, whose budget is just $5.5 million. The Caswells have not been charged with, let alone convicted of, a crime. They are being persecuted by two governments eager to profit from what is antiseptically called the “equitable sharing” of the fruits of civil forfeiture, a process of government enrichment that often is indistinguishable from robbery.

      The Merrimack River Valley near the New Hampshire border has had more downs than ups since the 19th century, when the nearby towns of Lowell and Lawrence were centers of America’s textile industry. In the 1960s the area briefly enjoyed a high-tech boom. Caswell’s “budget” motel, too, has seen better days, as when the touring Annette Funicello and the Mouseketeers checked in. In its sixth decade the motel hosts tourists, some workers on extended stays and some elderly people who call it home. The 56 rooms rent for $56 a night or $285 a week.

      Since 1994, about 30 motel customers have been arrested on drug-dealing charges. Even if those police figures are accurate — the police have a substantial monetary incentive to exaggerate — these 30 episodes involved less than 5/100ths of 1 percent of the 125,000 rooms Caswell has rented over those more than 6,700 days. Yet this is the government’s excuse for impoverishing the Caswells by seizing this property, which is their only significant source of income and all of their retirement security.

      The government says the rooms were used to “facilitate” a crime. It does not say the Caswells knew or even that they were supposed to know what was going on in all their rooms all the time. Civil forfeiture law treats citizens worse than criminals, requiring them to prove their innocence — to prove they did everything possible to prevent those rare crimes from occurring in a few of those rooms. What counts as possible remains vague. The Caswells voluntarily installed security cameras, they photocopy customers’ identifications and record their license plates, and they turn the information over to the police, who have never asked the Caswells to do more.

      The Caswells are represented by the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public-interest law firm. IJ explains that civil forfeiture is a proceeding in which property is said to have acted wrongly. This was useful long ago against pirates, who might be out of reach but whose ill-gotten gains could be seized. The Caswells, however, are not pirates.

      Rather, they are victims of two piratical governments that, IJ argues, are violating the U.S. Constitution twice. They are violating the Eighth Amendment, which has been construed to forbid “excessive fines” that deprive individuals of their livelihoods. And the federal “equitable sharing” program violates the 10th Amendment by vitiating state law, thereby enabling Congress to compel the states to adopt Congress’s policies where states possess a reserved power and primary authority — in the definition and enforcement of the criminal law.

      A federal drug agent operating in this region roots around in public records in search of targets — property with at least $50,000 equity. Caswell thinks that if his motel “had a big mortgage, this would not be happening.”

      “Equitable sharing” — the consensual splitting of ill-gotten loot by the looters — reeks of the moral hazard that exists in situations in which incentives are for perverse behavior. To see where this leads, read IJ’s scalding report “Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture” (http://ow.ly/aYME1), a sickening litany of law enforcement agencies padding their budgets and financing boondoggles by, for example, smelling, or imagining to smell, or pretending to smell, marijuana in cars they covet.

      None of this is surprising to Madisonians, which all sensible Americans are. James Madison warned (in Federalist 48) that government power “is of an encroaching nature.” If unresisted, it produces iniquitous sharing of other people’s property.

    • JAC. Sadly, most people in this Country do not understand REAL Freedom and Liberty anymore. Can’t really blame them, they’ve never really seen it here. While it’s true we are used to having more of both than any other nation on Earth, that’s not the same as experiencing true Freedom. I and you both must admit that we have never seen it in our lifetime either.

      What we have that most do not, is a strong desire to HAVE that Freedom and Liberty.To me that not only makes us better, it makes us stronger.

      • charlieopera says:

        What we have that most do not, is a strong desire to HAVE that Freedom and Liberty.To me that not only makes us better, it makes us stronger.

        With all do respect, Esom, that is one hell of an arrogant assumption and conclusion. In fact, is the hubris by which most empires wind up taking a dive.

        • O give it a rest. I think it does make us better AND stronger. We don’t desire Empire. We only want the Freedom and Liberty proomised us under the Constitution. If you’re looking for Empire builders, look no futher than Barack H. Obama.

          I believe it’s getting nigh on to time to disolve this Union anyway. When the Federal Government gets high handed enough to think they can dictate everything the States do, then to hades with them. Do you even realize how many suits have been filed against states during the past 3 and change years of Obama? Just because the states are being forced to do the Feds job for them because they are unwilling to do it themselves?

          • P.S. Charlie, I said that most people in the U.S. do not have that desire. Only a few of us do. How is that arrogant? Most don’t have it because they have been indoctrinated NOT to have it. I would think with your Socialist background you would be happy about that.

          • charlieopera says:

            Esom … you can’t refight the civil war. I mean, you can, but you’ll probably wind up with the same result. The empire builders are the 1% … they own Mr. Obama the same way they owned Mr. Bush (and all the rest of them) … what is interesting is how willing so many of you are to fight for the 1% … you can call it the constitution all you want, but it’s the 1% who wrote it and the 1% who get to define (and redefine it) … and how’s that working out for you? I mean, you’re the one claiming it’s all falling apart, right?

            • I’m sorry Charlie. But I will fight for the Constitution. The Original One. Not the bastardized one that the Supreme Court “interpreted” to mean what they want it to say. And yes, it’s beginning to look like we CAN refight the Civil War. Because the Federal Government is going to give us no choice.

              And we won’t even be the ones who start it. I don’t want to. But I won’t back up either.

              • charlieopera says:

                I’m sorry Charlie. But I will fight for the Constitution. The Original One.

                I’m going out on a limb here and assuming you don’t mean that one that permitted slavery (because it took almost 200+ years to end that and required a constitutional amendment.

                One problem (or not) with the “original” one is the interpretations of it; everyone is entitled to have one.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                I would love to go back 200+ years and make some changes (or add some Amendments). First, I would outlaw Socialism ,Communism and any other UnAmerican “ism” I could think of. Then, I would remove the Federal govt’s power to make laws and have any form of law enforcement, that should be a State issue.

                This would illiminate many of the Fed agencies we have now, saving billions! Effectively, The feds would not be in our business, at all.

        • Freedom and liberty have never been the hubris that brought about downfalls Charlie. Arrogance, perhaps, assumptions, perhaps, even false promises of freedom and liberty, yes. Those things fell the greatest of societies. But an actual desire for freedom has never destroyed any society.

          • charlieopera says:

            Jon, see U.S. involvement in Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan … and the cost in lives and coin and tell me it’s entitlement programs, unions and those statist loving liberals that are bringing this country to its knees.

            • Obama has turned Afganistan into another Vietnam for America. Send them over there and don’t let them fight it. Micromanage it from the White House. Train the Military to be killers and then get upset when they do what you trained them for. I wish they would pull ALL our troops out and bring them HOME!!

              I don’t care to see one of those boys die over there for one more ragheaded Afgan or any other Muslim idiot.

              • charlieopera says:

                I don’t care to see one of those boys die over there for one more ragheaded Afgan or any other Muslim idiot.

                Don’t hold back, Esom. Tell us what you really think of people other than Americans (the ones you don’t call communist sympathizers, etc.) … something tells me you won’t need a calculator to add them up.

            • Charlie, its both. And note that I said false promises of freedom have been in the hubris, but not real freedom. You really think that the leaders who sent us into all those wars desired freedom? Many things are done in the name of freedom because it is a popular slogan, it does not mean that those things are actually anything to do with freedom. People have been murdered in the name of science, religion, love, and a host of other things, but invoking a name does not make it involved. In almost every case, especially at the government level, the only real reason for any of those actions is to seek greater power, or at least to weild the power you have. Freedom has nothing to do with it.

              I agree that we have arrogance and hubris that will bring us down, but it is not the desire for freedom that is included. Now, ignorance that war in the name of freedom is not freedom is a problem. I do not say those who actually fought the wars were seeking power, many really were seeking freedom, but it was not their arrogance that led them down that path, it was their ignorance.

              • charlieopera says:

                Jon, you throw freedom around (from its alleged inception with the constitution) as if it is a given. It should be, yes, but it isn’t. Isn’t now nor has it ever been. Without rearguing an old issue, the constitution did not guarantee freedom (certainly not for those in bondage). But I’m speaking to the hubris Esom expressed about us being better and stronger than others. That is just nonsense and I’m pretty sure you know it. We don’t own the template on being “better” than any other culture, society, etc. But we do own a lot of hubris and expansion of our ideals (democratization of Iraq–one of the several “reasons” given to us by Bush, et al, regarding our invastion of Iraq (to spread democracy in the middle east, etc.). Most of us (I suspect) think the war had a lot more to do with oil than it did spreading democracy, but that is an irrelevant point. The fact we continue to threaten nation states that seek their own self interest (iran, for instance) is a pretty good indicator we haven’t learn a thing (and that we continue to assume what Esom expressed). That means (assuming he’s right) leaves us no place to go but down.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                Charlie, do not forget the Wilsonian “Make the world safe for democracy” crap. There was a time, as a young fool when I thought we could accomplish the forcible democratization of most of the world. I am now old and wiser. They get when they want. Period. If, God forbid, they should decide some day that they want to escape into something resembling the 21st, 20th or even 19th century, we should be ready to offer advice but that’s it.

                It goes back to the canard about living in slums: being taken out and put into a nice new housing project and trashing the project and turning it back into a slum, “you can take the people out of the slum but you can’t take the slum out of the people.’ You gotta want freedom and be willing to sacrifice to get it.

              • Charlie,
                I thought Esom was talking about a group of people, such as the people on this blog, not about the whole US, especially since his first paragraph was about how many do not understand or desire freedom in this country. I believe those who believe in freedom are better and stronger than those who either believe they need to be governed or those who believe they should have the power to govern others. The first is weakness and the other is evil, thus those who believe in real freedom are indeed stronger and better. Now, those in our government have not been in that category for a long time, in fact I submit that many such seekers of power have always been in our government. Maybe some are making the assumption you claim Esom is making which is why they continue to support our bullying. I mostly jumped into this because I read Esom’s statement very differently. That, and the fact that you can claim that the history of failure in socialism is invalid because it is not real socialism, yet you can associate every bad thing that happens with capitalism and freedom just because someone says that it is, without regard for the actual philosophy and principles of freedom and the free market. Its like you refuse to believe that your philosophy is associated with evil because you understand its core philosophy, but you will not even listen to any other core philosophy, you just demonize it as much as possible. You judge yourself by your intentions and others by your assumptions. Not very fair or open minded is it? And I know, you are not the only one doing this, many people, including some here, do that too, only from the opposite side.

              • I WAS talking about the few on this blog and the few out there in the Country who desired REAL Freedom and Liberty. I really don’t see how you misunderstood Charlie. I did say that most folks didn’t even understand what it was, mush less desire it. Most have no comprehension of what it really is. I know Obama doesn’t, when he throws it out there in a speech where in the next sentence he is taking another piece of it away.

                I also know that you don’t understand it. Because if you did you would not promote cradle to grave Socialist government babysitting.

                The Founders did not found a Nation based on Socialist principles. You are promised the “opportunity to succeed”. It is not a right. I freely admit this nation has come off the rails. That is what we want to fix. Put us back on the road to True Freedom. Not a heavily regulated and ruled over “existence”.

  25. Hmmmmm…….the Hunt brothers and their silver and George Soros trying the same end run on gold……..through the use of hedge funds. I hope that those of you whom have gold actually have it in your possession and not using speculative hedge fund paper….if you are…you are going to lose…..I think that Soros’ gamble will fail also but time will tell.

  26. Just A Citizen says:

    Barack H. Obama is channeling Richard M. Nixon

    It would seem that POTUS has “evolved” from Lincoln, to Reagan, to Carter and now to Nixon.

    For you younger SUFA folks who may not know the history, this is Viet Nam deja vue’ all over again.

    From Red State:
    “According to the New York Times, president Obama has “significantly lowered” the bar on how success in Afghanistan is defined.

    In four years Obama has gone from ”we must never forget, this is not a war of choice, this is a war of necessity” and “this is a war that we have to win” to “Afghan good enough.” According to the Times, Obama’s new definition of victory in his war of necessity that must be won is Afghan stability and no unimpeded Al Qaeda safe havens:

    “The goal is to have an Afghanistan again that has a degree of stability such that forces like Al Qaeda and associated groups cannot have safe haven unimpeded, which could threaten the region and threaten U.S. and other interests in the world.”

    In today’s New York Times, David E. Sanger reports that Obama will announce at the NATO summit that “all combat operations led by American forces will cease in summer 2013, when the United States and other NATO forces move to a ‘support role’ whether the Afghan military can secure the country or not.” Worse, Obama planned this retreat without the benefit of military advice:

    “When the president and a half-dozen White House aides began to plan for the withdrawal, the generals were cut out entirely. There was no debate, and there were no leaks.”

    • “When the president and a half-dozen White House aides began to plan for the withdrawal, the generals were cut out entirely. There was no debate, and there were no leaks.”

      Of course they didn’t consult the Generals who fight the war. The ones who have never fought in a war nor served in the Military know far more than the Military itself does.

      To be honest JAC, I am just as happy anyway. With the ridiculous ROE they are fighting under it is already another Vietnam. I don’t want our boys dying for even one more raghead Afgan.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Esom

        I agree……….BUT. If the dimwit is going to pull out in 2013 regardless then PULL OUT NOW.

        Not a single American should be expended once that decision was made. Which appears to have been a year ago.

        There is a special place in hell for people like Nixon and his protege’.

  27. Just A Citizen says:

    A nice little article about Chicago Style Politics. Just to get the blood warmed up before Monday morning. 🙂

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/15/obamas-plan-to-crucify-political-opponents/

    • I’m going to repond with the first comment under the article by reposting it here. Complete with the original author. It seems most appropriate to me. I wondered these same things myself.

      Amerikztan
      1) Only in America could politicians talk about the greed of the rich at a
      $35,000 a plate campaign fund raising event.

      2) Only in America could people claim that the government still
      discriminates against black Americans when we have a black President, a
      black Attorney General, and roughly 18% of the federal workforce is black.
      12% of the population is black.

      3) Only in America could we have had the two people most responsible for
      our tax code, Timothy Geithner, the head of the Treasury Department and
      Charles Rangel who once ran the Ways and Means Committee, BOTH turn
      out to be tax cheats who are in favor of higher taxes.

      4) Only in America can we have terrorists kill people in the name of Allah
      and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be harmed
      by the backlash.

      5) Only in America would we make people who want to legally become
      American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of
      thousands of dollars for the privilege while we discuss letting anyone who
      sneaks into the country illegally just become American citizens.

      6) Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget
      and sticking by the country’s Constitution be thought of as “extremists.”

      7) Only in America could you need to present a driver’s license to cash a
      check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.

      8) Only in America could people demand the government investigate
      whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went
      up when the return on equity invested in a major U.S. oil company (Marathon
      Oil) is less than half of a company making tennis shoes (Nike).

      9) Only in America could the government collect more tax dollars from the
      people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a trillion dollars more
      than it has per year for total spending of $7 million PER MINUTE,and
      complain that it doesn’t have nearly enough money.

      10) Only in America could the rich people who pay 86% of all income taxes
      be accused of not paying their “fair share” by people who don’t pay any
      income taxes at all.

      ~ originally posted on WT by Joe Dutra

    • http://mcclintock.house.gov/2012/04/irs-harassment-of-tea-party-groups.shtml

      This from our local Rep. Tea Party groups across the country are being harassed.

      • This is truly Chicago Thug Politics at it’s best. Intimidate and harrass your political rivals to drive them out of the race. Obama is no better than Hugo Chavez.

  28. Just A Citizen says:

    More Deja Vu’.

    Recurring nightmares. Same freakin people, same freakin tactics, same gullible Press, same stupid politicians, same freakin tools.

    Where’s my Whiskey?

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/20/11777541-life-over-war-us-veterans-return-medals-at-nato-summit?lite

    • ….’Bush was shitty’……..

      ….as the social studies teacher I will not allow you to talk bad about any president past or present…

      Have to hand it to the kids. They backed her into a corner and made her look stupid.

  29. charlieopera says:

    @Gman:

    First, I would outlaw Socialism ,Communism and any other UnAmerican “ism” I could think of. Then, I would remove the Federal govt’s power to make laws and have any form of law enforcement, that should be a State issue.

    You would OUTLAW … so much for all that freedom you claim to desire, eh?

    This would illiminate many of the Fed agencies we have now, saving billions! Effectively, The feds would not be in our business, at all.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      No Charlie, I would outlaw those forms of government that is designed to rule over the people, which is not freedom. My suggestion 200+ years ago, would be if you want to control the people, stay out of the U.S. or face criminal prosecution for treason. It’s qite simple Charlie, your ideal government is not about freedom, it’s about theft and control, that, Sir, is not my idea of freedom. The ball is now in your court! 🙂

    • SK Trynosky Sr says:

      Are there no workhouses ?

      • Sounds like he has a job, min wage, and they take half. I think he has the wrong attitude.
        The glass is half full, not half empty. The best things in life are free. I do wonder what “sweet nothings” he was whispering to those 11 women.

        • I wonder when the first man is going to fight having to pay child support, based on the woman could have had an abortion-since she chose to have the baby-it should be her responsibility too support the baby.

          • Now that is something I could get behind. 😉 I do NOT support abortion. But that is in reality a valid arguement that a man could make, since we have no say in whether or not a woman can get one. It’s her body. But once she has it, as the father, you once again have no say. The baby is Your responsibility! A double standard, it seems to me.

            • Esom, Esom, Esom my man! Didn’t you just post this below?

              I think he should have kept his thingy in his pants. Now he must reap the whirlwind.

              🙂

              • Yeah I did. But he knows what the law is. And he really SHOULD have kept it in his pants. 🙂 I mean, 30 kids!??!? By 11 women!?!?!? What was he thinking with? 😉

    • MTV Wants You To Lose Your Virginity In New Reality Show

      by John Nolte 2 days ago 163 post a comment
      A tipster sent this to me this morning and after clicking the link, I — the guy who thought he had seen it all from our pop culture overlords — literally gasped:

      DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THINGS TO THE NEXT LEVEL? LIKE, ARE YOU READY TO HAND OVER YOUR V CARD? OR DO YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO IS READY TO LOSE IT?

      Young adulthood is a time for exploration. New relationships, fresh experiences and sexual firsts…

      Now MTV is looking to frankly capture that journey in a new series called My First…We’re looking for adults who are ready to go all the way. Let MTV come along on your journey… as you try to lose your virginity! (Note: We will be filming whether or not you accomplish this goal… but NOT the act itself. Duh.)

      If you are 18 years or older and are willing to candidly allow MTV to accompany you on the journey toward “losing it,” please send us an email.

      MTV can and undoubtedly will hide behind the fact that 18 year-olds are legal adults, but you can prey on adults just as easily as you can prey on children, especially young adults conditioned by pop culture outlets like MTV to believe celebrity and narcissism are virtues.

      And the bait here is celebrity. Debase yourselves for our cameras and we’ll make you a star! This isn’t about love or finding love or even losing your innocence to someone you love. This is about the lie that…

      Young adulthood is a time for exploration. New relationships, fresh experiences and sexual firsts…

      I seem to remember when we were the kind of culture that protected young people from the indignities of loveless sex and did everything in our power to educate about the financial, emotional, and medical pitfalls of leading with your sexuality over your heart.

      What MTV is doing might be legal but it’s still a sleazy exploitation of some of our most vulnerable citizens. And the dangling of celebrity and a camera from a swanky studio lot is no different than dangling candy and a camera from your open raincoat.

      If you want to debase yourselves, it’s a free country. To entice others, however, is an act of evil.

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/05/18/MTV-Lose-Virginity-Reality-Show

    • I think he should have kept his thingy in his pants. Now he must reap the whirlwind.

  30. The election of 25 delegates and 25 alternates to the Republican National Convention (the primary purpose of the convention) was conducted by voice vote and standing vote, in clear violation of party rules. State Party Rule 18.D explicitly states, “Election of the Delegates-at-Large and Alternates-at- Large shall be by roll call vote.” That plainly did not happen, and points of order demanding the rules be followed were simply ignored. This rule is as plain as it gets, and the party has yet to offer any explanation. As a result, and in order to prevent the entire delegation from being discredited by the RNC, those of us who continued the convention outside held a proper roll call vote (by written ballot) on the delegate slates at approximately 7:00 p.m.

    ● Massive improprieties that occurred at the Congressional District 1 (Tulsa area) convention were brought to the floor at about 4:45 p.m. (ironically, the biggest impropriety in the CD1 convention was the refusal of its chair to take a roll call vote as required by the rules). Before a proper vote could be taken, hotel personnel (on orders from the GOP, a hotel employee told us) began moving mobile partitions into the room, literally blocking roughly a third of the delegates (including the very delegates whose district was at issue) from the view of Oklahoma GOP Chair Matt Pinnell, Convention Chair Marc Nuttle, and the rest of the room. Incredibly, Nuttle held a vote on how to resolve the District 1 issue while many delegates from District 1 were behind a wall and out of Nuttle’s view. Matt Pinnell spoke in favor of tabling the issue, and, unsurprisingly, Pinnell got his way on that vote. Appeals and calls for a division of the house (i.e., a formal vote) were not heard, in violation of the rules.

    ● With the walls still shutting out a third of the convention, Pinnell entertained a motion to adjourn the convention. The motion clearly failed the voice vote. Undeterred by the wall preventing a third of the convention from being seen, Nuttle then ordered a standing vote on the motion, from which he promptly declared the motion passed, absconded from the stage, and turned out the lights as he fled the room (As you can see here, the panels move into place on the left side, and the motion to adjourn obviously fails both the voice vote and the standing count before the lights go out). Having never properly adjourned the convention, both Nuttle and Pinnell abdicated, leaving the delegates to continue with business in the parking lot.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/17/oklahoma-gop-continues-national-trend-of-disenfranchising-paul-supporters/#ixzz1vW9TiO9z

    • Democratic officials are trying to sideline President Barack Obama’s Arkansas rival, John Wolfe, who is running a close second in the state’s Fourth District before the May 22 open primary.

      Party spokeswoman Candace Martin told The Daily Caller May 18 that Wolfe can’t get any delegates — regardless of the vote count — because he did not file critical documents on time.

      Wolfe dismissed Martin’s claim, saying the party accepted his $2,500 registration fee March 1 for the primary. “They’re not going to get away with it, because the courts won’t put up with it,” said Wolfe, who is a lawyer.

      “It will be a summer of litigation. … I hate to do it against my own party, but they’re acting as if this guy [Obama] is some kind of emperor.”

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/18/democrats-shun-obamas-arkansas-challenger/#ixzz1vWAH1gYp

    • Just A Citizen says:

      LOI

      It was a similar experience that caused me to finally drop out of the R party. But where I lived they were far more “democratic” than the “Democratic” party.

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    On the issue of teen drinking, and the dept of counter intuitive:

    http://mises.org/daily/6057/The-HandSanitizer-Martini

    More freedom would reduce teenage binge drinking.

    • Are you serious? this sounds like a recent article I read-let your children bring home their boyfriends/girlfriends and screw in their bedrooms so you will have more control and input into their sex lives.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        Not at all.

        And it does not mean you can throw parties for other children.

        It means you should be able to allow your children to drink in your home, and that you should teach them how to do so responsibly.

        European countries where drinking is not outlawed have lower incidents of binge drinking and alcohol related deaths.

        • 😯 JAC! From the sounds of it you agree with the article. Say it ain’t so.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Anita

            I do agree with it. I have two kids who don’t drink to get drunk to prove it works.

            A little glass of beer or some wine with special meals. Eliminated the “mystic” of alcohol.

            I have also discussed this with exchange students from Germany. They are allowed to drink in their homes or when eating out with parents. No great mystery or need to over do the drinking when they hit high school. Part of the popularity of binge drinking among US Teens is the “forbidden fruit” syndrome.

            Freedom requires being FREE. It is the parents responsibility. But note this does not “legalize” public drinking or the purchase by minors. But it eliminates the “illegal” nature of parents having drinks with their kids when together. No different that their “learner permit” when it comes to driving.

            We have heart burn over these ideas because we only think of the irresponsible parent. But my experience is they will be irresponsible anyway. Like sitting around getting drunk with their teenaged kids and their friends.

            • Y’know JAC, as a Christian, drinking is one of the no-no’s, at least in the Baptist Theology. But the truth is, there is no sin in drinking alcohol. The only sin in it is the harm caused to your body in getting drunk. Or in being a stumbling block to a non-christian, or in other words, causing them to think they are just as good and have no need to be saved.

              But we, or I personally, have no problem with people drinking it. I was told by my Doctor to have one drink for my heart every night, before bedtime. Either one Beer, one glass of homemade wine, or one shot of liquor, all those being equal. I chose Liquor because it is over and done with before you have time to get sick of it. I cannot get through a whole beer, and ditto a whole glass of wine. But I don’t have a problem with one shot of Wild Turkey American Honey. mmm mmm good! But! I only have the one shot at night.

              And my Granddaddy taught me how to make homemade cough syrup by using Bourbon, honey, and a soft peppermint stick. For sinus infections and congestion, I use one tblspn of bourbon, one of sugar, and chop up a piece of onion in a cup. Combine, stir and eat! It’s nasty but I GUARANTEE it will clear you up.

              I also give these remedies to my kids. And it’s only a tablespoon full so it’s not like I’m teaching them to drink. I promise you too that they had rather not take it. Especially that concoction with the onion! 🙂

              I’ve gotten long winded here, but my point is, most Christians do not believe it is wrong to drink. It’s the image that you project to non-Christians that we want to avoid. AND the fact that we just don’t drink. I know Catholics and other religions don’t see anything wrong with it at all, and I won’t dispute their belief here. We just have different ones.

            • ..drink to get drunk… And that is exactly why I run from the idea of drinking with your kids. Waaaay to many of my friends, including my ex, drink to get drunk. When he said he can’t wait for the kids to get 15 or 16 so he can have a few beers with them… I said Over, My. Dead. Body. Right now they have a chance at success, something you (ex) totally admit that drinking early ruined your chances at. Right now the kids see that his drinking has ruined some times for them. If he allows them to drink with him they could very well like it before they see what life could bring them without drinking. I would never encourage drinking until they are well on their way to some established goals. Then,feel as free as you want to drink sensibly. For my daughter that was at age 20. I knew that she was well on her way to success and I was OK with her drinking. My son, whooo boy, at this point I don’t think I’ll ever be ready for him to drink! He’s just that type to overdo it! But I will never encourage early drinking.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Anita

                You make my point. It should be up to YOU to decide.

                NOT the Govt.

                The distinction is drinking vs. having a drink.

                I tried to teach the latter, having been guilty in my pre-kid days of the former.

      • I have/am amazed at some things I see. A close family member was 24 and lived with his 17yr old girlfriend. A good friend’s son does the same thing, he being a HS Sr., she a Jr. They do not do this at his house, just the girls…..

    • My Daddy was pretty much a tea totaling bartender. We had a bottle of CC in the house till the day he died in 1984 with a 1952 bottling date on it. He had exactly two beers on a Friday night while he and I, the little cherub, watched the Friday Night Fights on TV. Each Friday I got a two ounce shot glass full of Miller. Mom was not crazy about this. At Christmas or when a relative visited and we’d crack open a few more beers or a bottle of sweet wine (Yuk!), I’d get mine too.

      Daddy was a believer in the attraction of “forbidden fruit”. He sort of felt if the fruit wasn’t forbidden, there would be no attempts to experiment at 14, 15, or 16. He was right. I did the same with my own four and scandalized my mother in law. It had the same effect. They all grew up to be designated drivers. .

      I think the Europeans are actually right on this one.

  32. Just A Citizen says:

    SUFA ladies in particular, but everyone for the fun of it.

    I thought the ladies here would find the following “feminist” criticism of John Rawls of interest. Especially given our prior discussions of what “progress” really means.

    “Feminist critics, Susan Okin and Martha Nussbaum, prominent among them, have complained that Rawls leaves the traditional family, and thus the most important site of the social reproduction of unjust gender hierarchy, largely protected by the familiar liberal liberties (freedom of association, freedom of religion, and so on). They maintain that if women are to enjoy “fair value for their political liberties” or “fair equality of opportunity,” the family must be thoroughly reorganized on gender neutral terms. ”

    Now men, do you understand why we have been portrayed as dimwits and spineless weasels in the modern media?

    • Sounds like an interesting discussion-but I know nothing about John Rawls-how exactly has he left the traditional family? And how exactly can the family be gender neutral when the woman have the babies?

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        Rawls is the author of the concept of Social Justice. The criticism is not that he “left the family” but that he left the family protected from criticism in the way he developed his liberal theory of liberty. That theory is not important here.

        I just found the “feminist” criticism typical and revealing of an antagonistic view of men and family that has dominated NOW and its followers.

        • Well JAC-you have to make someone the “bad guy” and someone the “victim” if you want to use the force of law to change social norms.

    • And what the heck -freedom has caused unjust gender hierarchy-that sounds like a socialist-we must give up our freedoms to somehow be more free.

  33. One more to add to the intimidation list !

    Did the Obama administration try to silence whistleblower agency on energy policy?
    posted at 2:01 pm on May 21, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

    Imagine, the Wall Street Journal implores, what the federal government would do if a whistleblower had tipped off JP Morgan chief Jamie Dimon about the risky maneuvers that ended up as a $2 billion loss earlier this month — and had gotten fired or discredited in an attempt to shut him up. The Obama administration would have started an SEC probe, Congress would demand that witnesses appear, and the media would have spent weeks interviewing the brave soul who endured retaliation for speaking truth to power. But what happens when a watchdog organization with decades of experience and involvement try to blow the whistle on bad policy in the Obama administration?

    They get a proctological audit, that’s what:

    The target is the North American Electric Reliability Corporation, or NERC, and its crime is scrutinizing the Obama Administration’s anticarbon agenda. This highly respected nonprofit has monitored the power system since the 1960s and establishes best practices to keep the lights on. In 2005, Congress gave NERC a formal role as adviser. But now it may be defrocked for questioning the “pace and aggressiveness” of the Environmental Protection Agency’s regulatory wave in a 2010 report.

    NERC’s position is that the EPA goal of mothballing many or most coal-fired power plants could endanger the security of the electric-power grid, with possible blackouts and much higher energy costs. In a follow-up report last year it found that “Environmental regulations are shown to be the number one risk to reliability over the next one to five years.”

    Apparently that was too honest for Washington. Earlier this month the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission disclosed that it has spent months conducting a highly unusual audit of NERC. The commission oversees NERC under the 2005 law, so it has every right to check its practices. But this probe exceeded normal auditing standards and was a free-floating investigation into NERC’s “economy and efficiency,” whatever that means. It didn’t find any rule-breaking.

    Instead, the auditors question NERC’s focus and statutory responsibilities, concluding that it “may have exceeded the functions” Congress intended for a reliability organization. Never mind that NERC has been doing the same job for decades and its integrity hasn’t been questioned. The feds also complain about NERC’s “periodic reliability assessments,” otherwise considered the gold standard. They say this role “should be revisited.”

    As the WSJ concludes, the FERC apparently wants NERC to protect the reliability of energy distribution without considering threats to its reliability. Or, probably more accurately, FERC doesn’t want NERC to publicly disagree with the Obama administration. Obama appointed Jon Wellinghoff as the chair of FERC, and he repaid the appointment by ordering the audit — without putting it to a vote by the board. Another Obama appointee, Cheryl LaFleur, criticized that move, but the message has already been sent: dissent from the Obama agenda will be punished severely.

    Or, as another Obama appointee once put it, all you have to do is crucify a few people and everyone else gets the message.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/21/did-the-obama-administration-try-to-silence-whistleblower-agency-on-energy-policy/

  34. charlieopera says:

    @Jon:

    I believe those who believe in freedom are better and stronger than those who either believe they need to be governed or those who believe they should have the power to govern others.

    Jon, you are certainly entitled to your belief, but this is an arrogant a statement as Esom’s. Either side can be right or wrong, but one side “better” and “stronger” than the other is reaching.

    That, and the fact that you can claim that the history of failure in socialism is invalid because it is not real socialism

    I’m pretty sure I’ve experienced the same thing here regarding “free markets” … somehow the government gets blamed for them being corrupted, not the capitalists who buy the government.

    Its like you refuse to believe that your philosophy is associated with evil because you understand its core philosophy, but you will not even listen to any other core philosophy, you just demonize it as much as possible.d

    Wrong, Jon. I’d prefer an anarchist society (free of capitalism; or at least free enough so that capitalism isn’t permitted to ruin it) but that isn’t going to happen. In lieu of that, I don’t see how socialism isn’t the next step, so to speak. I don’t see how so many people can live (here or elsewhere) with ever growing numbers and an ever widening gap in income plus the ever increasing advances in technology. Displaced workers are catching up to us like never before.

    If capitalism ever had a better day, it was always at the expense of others (minorities and foreigners through the mostly white middle class expansion of the 1950-60’s) and now pretty much everybody but the haves. This is just one opinion so don’t sue the lot of socialists out there. 🙂 The potential for evil exists everywhere and what you say is evil about socialism I see as evil about capitalism. We’re looking at it from polar positions is all.

    @Gman: so long as you use “I outlaw” your freedom is fugazy (fake) … 🙂

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Sorry Charlie, As long as I can “outlaw ” your theft and control, my freedom rules. You just don’t like being told the truth, your ideas are not freedom, they are theft and control. 🙄

      • charlieopera says:

        Gman, my man …. you’re a contradiction. Freedom precludes outlawing anything … why are you so afraid of freedom?

        • I understand his feelings Charlie. People like obama should not be allowed to “Transform” or Country into something we are not. That is not Freedom. He wants to turn us into a Socially Corrupt Dictatorship. And he thinks we a re too apathetic and stupid to stop him, despite evidence to the contrary. And tries to demonize the ones who are trying to stop him.

          He does not have “fairness” in mind. If he did, if his motives were pure, he would not speak of fairness out of one side of his mouth while accepting money from the same ones he calls “the more fortunate among us”. He would not be picking winners and losers, but treating all the same.

      • Well I don’t want their ideology outlawed G. If I want my Freedom to choose the Rule I want, he should be able to choose his. My only problem with him is that, if he wants Socialism, he needs to move to a Socialist Nation. This one is not. At least it’s not yet.

        This Country was founded as a Constitutional Republic and a special Democratic society. We were founded with Freedom and Liberty in mind for ALL. And it has worked for over 200 years. No one in ANY Nation in this world is EVER going to have a truly equal society. This is an absolute pipedream. I’m sure Charlie has the best intentions, in fact I know he does. He wants everything to be fair and everyone to be equal. It is a nice thing to want.

        But, that being said, it ain’t gonna happen. And we ain’t ever going to see a society with True Freedom and Liberty either. We are dreaming just like Charlie is. As long as there are people on this planet, there will be some who want and WILL rule over others. It is just the way it is.

        All we can do my friend is stop them from turning into Absolute Dictators or Oligarchs. But we also don’t have to put up with some idiotic fool with Socialist dreams “transforming” us into something we’re not and don’t want to be.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Esom, The whole discussion with Charlie was based on going back 200+ years ago and making changes to our Constitution when written (way back then). Had that occurred, we would not have the problems of today, in my humble opinion. But, can’t go back in time, so it’s all for not. History has shown what Communism and Socialism does to a society, and how many of it’s citizens die as a result. We could have outlawed it 220+ years ago, sadly, they didn’t.

    • I love your comments Charlie and find a grain of truth in most but there are other factors at work which must always be taken into account. Back when I was a psych major and discovered Gestaltism, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Finally an explanation that made some sense. All the factors that produce a result must be taken into account, not just one. Life is a damned connect the dots game after all!

      Let me hypothesize something here. If there were not this free for all non-policy on immigration and the borders were closed with strict controls on immigration, What would our jobs/salary situation look like? I’ve gone around the block on this with BF a couple of times. In my humble opinion, there would be a shortage of labor, education would be a lot better and cheaper and wages would be rising not falling creating new and better opportunities for all and gradually increasing the legal immigration rate to fill a real need. .

      You and I both know that the 1% loves the situation but I postulate that most of the 99% think they love it too because it’s “fair”. They are shooting themselves in the foot while they are stringing the noose over the tree branch to hang themselves and think they are on the side of the angels.

      As a fairly practicing Catholic, I get batted around on my immigration position quite a bit. You cannot solve the Calcutta problem by turning everywhere into a new Calcutta because someone had deluded you into thinking it is “fair”. How about the lifeboat analogy? You have a boat that can save 30, there are 40 scrambling to get in, boat sails on fine till the first storm then capsizes and all drown. Fair right? I think some might actually say yes.

      • charlieopera says:

        I hear you Stephen. Believe it or not, I’m for controlling immigration. It isn’t just about fair. We’re being ruled by the 1% and I no longer buy the argument that that’s the best scenario. The more the gap widens, the worse it gets for the 99%. We’re a third world country and it isn’t because of entitlements, unions or socialism. It’s because the advance of technology and global markets permit the 1% to do whatever they want with the government they own.

        • Today it was announced that there will soon be an Avatar named “Eva” at your local airport to answer, annoyingly I’m sure for those in a hurry, your questions. All the media says “how wonderful”, I say, another few jobs lost at each airport! Same as the self-checkouts which I deliberately never use which just leads to more unemployment. Advancements, my ass. The fallacy being that somehow I will “save” money when in fact I merely, maybe , get my nuts, screws and bolts at Home Depot pennies cheaper but then pay higher taxes for those on the permanent dole.

  35. But the Founders had no way of knowing what we would be seeing now. Most major nations were Monarchies then. I think we were lucky we didn’t wind up a Monarchy ourselves. One of the Founders actually suggested it!

    It would have been nice had they thought of all of that. But there was no Socialism nor Communism then. At most it was an idea in someones head. And it’s already been shown that it won’t work now. I don’t think most will admit even to themselves that it will NEVER work.

    Obama is not REALLY a Socialist, any more than Chavez or France’s new President is. What they are is self serving Oligarchs who at best give lip service to Socialist philosophy. They are corrupt, self serving, arrogant morons. France will go down like Greece, Spain, Ireland…. and us if we don’t turn around soon.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Yes Sir on the last paragraph. My comments were based on Charlie’s insane comments about your comment about the Constitution. He wanted to know if you wanted to gao all the way back when slavery was legal. I made my point, that yes, I would, to change many things for the better, based on knowledge we have today, hence my posts. Charlie didn’t like my ideas, as expected, most folks who promote theft and control don’t understand freedom, 🙂

      • charlieopera says:

        Charlie didn’t like my ideas, as expected, most folks who promote theft and control don’t understand freedom

        Most people who want to Outlaw anything, it seems to me, have a very convoluated sense of freedom … but at least you’re consistent …:)

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Please Charlie, Communism outlaws everything that the State don’t like, like most freedoms. Quit trying to blow smoke up so many asses, they all know better! 🙂

          • charlieopera says:

            I think you’re afraid of freedom G … and I’m pretty sure they know if you OUTLAW something, you’re not dealing with freedom. Maybe that’s why only the Reps and Dems get to have national debates … the powers that be are too afraid of this country becoming exposed to something other than two corrupt parties who allegedly advocate freedom (like you), but prefer to OUTLAW all other options/opinions.

            Like i said, at least you’re consistent …

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Charlie, if you can recall, this was about going back 200+ years ago, you know, when slavery was still legal. Things are much different in today’s day and age, I appreciate differences in opinion and those that espouse a form of failed government philosiphies. I would never outlaw that form of speech today. I do enjoy how easily people are brainwashed to think that Communism is so great when it has ruthlessly killed so many. Doesn’t really make those wanting it to bright, does it now?

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Charlie, Off subject some. As an author (which I think is great), did you have to fill out any thing for your bio for your publicist? Did you need to do it for each book?

              • charlieopera says:

                G: Originally I had to do something for them and I think (I honestly don’t know anymore) we just stuck with it from publisher to publisher (there have been 3 publishers). It seems like a lifetime ago when I did that originally. I did have to do something for the new publisher with the last book, I remember that.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Thanks Charlie, Always trying to learn the business world, so to speak. You confirm what I have heard, so considering your the expert, it is fact! It always helps to get first hand info about stuff like that. I may be publishing something in the future, so that will help. Just curious, how’s your next book coming along?

      • Oh don’t get me wrong here. I did not say that Gman was wrong. I said I would not outlaw it. I do think you are wrong though Charlie. Some are not as tolerant as I am with Socialists and Commies. The way I see it. In a Nation of Free speech, you can SAY whatever you want.

        But acting on it like Obama and his Progressive homies are doing should be criminalized. They should be tried and imprisoned for Treason. Like I said, this Nation is a Constitutional Republic. Not the Democratic Socialist States!! And it will be that over my dead body.

        In Socialism Charlie, your speech will get you arrested.

        • charlieopera says:

          But acting on it like Obama and his Progressive homies are doing should be criminalized. They should be tried and imprisoned for Treason

          Maybe it’s me … but do you not see the similarity in stating “In Socialism Charlie, your speech will get you arrested”(?)

          criminalized. Sounds like quite the police state you’re advocating here.

          • Not at all Charlie. Obama and his minions should be tried for treason for their blatant disregard for and ignoring of the Constitution. And their trampling of our rights under said document.

            And they should be tried for what they are doing to our economy and system of Government. This is my Country they are in danger of destroying! And that chaps my fanny.

  36. San Francisco wants to name a street after Madam Pelosi. I suggest they rename Lombard St. It’s crooked enough.

  37. Just A Citizen says:

    It is amazing what one can learn by just doing a little reading. And of course exercising some curiosity. My find in this case was due to questions I had about an upcoming movie.

    Anyway, I think many will find this interesting. Special note: Notice that the Constitutional revision was done during the period of Progressive ascension in the US. and is consistent with Progressive values. Seems they were everywhere.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War

    • While I was reading about this article you posted JAC. I got to thinking and went over and reasearched one of my favorite Presidents, Silent Cal, Calvin Coolidge. We need that kind of President now I believe. Here are just a few things about him, or you can just go research him yourself.

      Taxation
      Coolidge’s taxation policy was that of his Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon: taxes should be lower and fewer people should have to pay them.[113] Congress agreed, and the taxes were reduced in Coolidge’s term.[113] In addition to these tax cuts, Coolidge proposed reductions in federal expenditures and retiring some of the federal debt.[113] Coolidge’s ideas were shared by the Republicans in Congress, and in 1924 Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1924, which reduced income tax rates and eliminated all income taxation for some two million people.[113] They reduced taxes again by passing the Revenue Acts of 1926 and 1928, all the while continuing to keep spending down so as to reduce the overall federal debt.[114] By 1927, only the richest 2% of taxpayers paid any federal income tax.[114] Although federal spending remained flat during Coolidge’s administration, allowing one-fourth of the federal debt to be retired, state and local governments saw considerable growth, surpassing the federal budget in 1927.[115]

      Imagine that! Reduced taxes, reduced the size of Government, and retired one fourth of the Federal debt also!

      And on Industry and trade:

      Quote:
      “… it is probable that a press which maintains an intimate touch with the business currents of the nation is likely to be more reliable than it would be if it were a stranger to these influences. After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world.” (emphasis added)
      President Calvin Coolidge’s address to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, Washington D.C., January 25, 1925.[107]

      During Coolidge’s presidency the United States experienced the period of rapid economic growth known as the “Roaring Twenties”. He left the administration’s industrial policy in the hands of his activist Secretary of Commerce, Herbert Hoover, who energetically used government auspices to promote business efficiency and develop airlines and radio.[108] With the exception of favoring increased tariffs, Coolidge disdained regulation, and carried about this belief by appointing commissioners to the Federal Trade Commission and the Interstate Commerce Commission who did little to restrict the activities of businesses under their jurisdiction.[109] The regulatory state under Coolidge was, as one biographer described it, “thin to the point of invisibility.”[110]
      Coolidge’s economic policy has often been misquoted as “generally speaking, the business of the American people is business” (full quotation above). Some have criticized Coolidge as an adherent of the laissez-faire ideology, which they claim led to the Great Depression.[111] On the other hand, historian Robert Sobel offers some context based on Coolidge’s sense of federalism: “As Governor of Massachusetts, Coolidge supported wages and hours legislation, opposed child labor, imposed economic controls during World War I, favored safety measures in factories, and even worker representation on corporate boards. Did he support these measures while president? No, because in the 1920s, such matters were considered the responsibilities of state and local governments.”[112]

      And finally:

      At the end of Coolidge’s term, he declined to run for another full term as President. The Republican Party, nominated Herbert Hoover. A cabinet secretary that Coolidge despised, mostly because he was a Progressive as well as a Republican. After Hoover was elected, he set about undoing all of the changes Coolidge had put in place. The Great Depression started in the middle of his Presidency. So what did the American people do? They elected a Progressive Democrat. We didn’t come out of that depression until WW2 started.

      • Esom, your last paragraph is key. Hoover was portrayed as a conservative by the Democrats and the media of the time. Anyone could have beat him but with eighty years gone now, Hoovers economic policies are still described as conservative.

        It is the one thing I fear with Romney. I am not particularly sure anyone can cure this particular mess we are in. Certainly not in four years with half of Europe defaulting on debt along the way. I see Romney trying his be nice get along stuff like Nixon and Bush and being whisked out of office in four years with a Democratic replacement that would make Obama look like Goldwater. Of course, all his failures will be because he was too “conservative”.

        There are sad times ahead..

  38. Just A Citizen says:

    Anita

    I forgot to bring this up last month. I see that Boise States great QB signed as a free agent with the LIONS. How absolutely ironic, don’t ya think?

    I don’t know if he will ever play much but my son and I agree on this. Kellen Moore will become one of the better Offensive Coordinators some day.

    For those that didn’t see the Gruden QB camp of Moore, it was entirely different than the ones with all the other QB’s. Gruden spent most of the clip asking questions and taking notes about the BSU offense. And when he would try to stump Moore with a pro set situation Moore picked it up immediately.

    Too bad he doesn’t have the rocket arm of the others.

    • I just don’t understand how a QB who broke every College record there was did not even get drafted AT ALL! I think he will make a fine backup for Stafford (from GA). And if he gets lucky, and the way Stafford gets hurt that is a possbility, he may shine enough to get traded to be a starter for somebody else.

    • Alright! It will be fun to watch him, I wish him luck. Another random bit of trivia I noticed recently is that my son listed Boise State as one of his facebook likes. He’ll be happy to hear this one.

  39. charlieopera says:

    @GMan. It is an ever evolving business (writing these days) Ebooks has upturned the applecart; traditional publishers are finding themselves in a scary situation. Should more best selling authors decided to jump ship, they will hurt the big guys even more. I’m not a big fan of self-publishing, but I totally understand the frustration of some very good authors who can’t get a break because of “the market” … Snooki gets a big book deal, not the next Faulkner … so it goes.

    My new one comes out in July (review copies are out now, the ARC’s). It’s a 10 year sequel to my first book and mostly takes place in North Dakota. Rough Riders is the title. I take shots at both the tea party and your favorite progressive, Mr. Obama … but it’s just another crime novel in the end, nothing profound … hopefully entertaining.

    If you’re looking into the game, there are several sites to visit and that give good advice. I’m at a point where I don’t have the time to do that stuff the way one needs to. I put the books I retain rights to on ebook and let my publisher handle the new stuff. I think, in the end, ebooks will help authors more than hurt them, but those free and under $1.00 unedited self-published books all over amazon (because amazon earns off those), continues to hurt the authors with quality works (vetted by traditional publishers). The authors who got in the ebook game early (those who saw it coming and had the time to invest) were making a killing (some still are, I suppose). It’s all about brand recognition and material (popular more than quality). Vampires, sci-fi, fantasy, etc., continue to do very well …

  40. Mathius says:

    Ahh.. North Carolina..

    • Well Matt, at least he is only calling for the natural death of a populace who cannot reproduce. Unfortunately he never passed the logic course along the way to his pastorship. Can’t you just hear the Chorus, (all five) of Amens backing him up. What support! I’m sure any two bit Imam worth his salt can do better than that with a call for a stoning.

      • Mathius says:

        “I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Mahatma Gandhi

        • Matt,

          Seems to me you and Gandhi have picked up a handful of rocks to throw instead of just one. Would you be offended if a black person applied what a white said to all whites? Does this guy speak for all N.C.? Does he speak for all Christians? Isn’t it always the fringe of a group that the group gets judged by? Most Christians walk away from people like him, keeping their faith and not judging others…..

          • LOI,

            In truth, Mathius is probably closer to right then you.

            Vastly most Christians are nothing at all like the Nazarene- few understand his lessons and teachings, let alone adhere to them.

            Jesus was removed from Christianity beginning ~50AD and was purged by at least 400AD.

            • Exactly what Christianity are you talking about? Without Christ, there IS NO Christianity. I most certainly haven’t removed him. What I think you are mistaken about BF is that the Romans mixed their pagan religion with Christianity. This in early churches caused mistaken beliefs and intolerance for non-christians.

              It makes a big difference when you are told by the Emperor that you WILL convert to Christianity. A religion most did not even understand at the time.

              • It is the flawed nature of all human beings to force their will on others. So, to a great extent Flag is right but, unlike most other examples, we tend to return to the central message. AND WE SURVIVE!

              • Esom,

                Using a particular name to describe a belief does not mean necessarily that you ascribe to the belief that person so named held.

                There are millions of Christians who kill millions of innocent people in the name of Christ and his kingdom of Peace, Love and non-violence.

                There is no particular religion on Earth that is anywhere near the teachings of Christ – titles on billboards notwithstanding.

              • Mathius says:

                There are millions of Christians who kill millions of innocent people in the name of Christ and his kingdom of Peace, Love and non-violence.

                Killing for peace is like raping for virginity.

            • What a hurtful thing to say, Matt is closer than me to being correct…. I agree many are uneducated. But then, many are very well educated. I have had conversations with a variety of people and have been surprised how well educated some are on subjects that surprise me. I think most Christians have a mental image of Christ as a WASP, brown hair showing some blond in the sunlight. Any rational thought on it would lead you to think he was an Arab.

              “few understand his lessons and teachings, let alone adhere to them.” Not sure I agree on this. War for conquest was the norm thousands of years ago. Take the others land and resources, kill the men, enslave the women and children. Now it is more defensive, at least with western nations. The UK built an empire by conquest. They don’t now. The US see’s itself acting to deter Russia and China from taking over weaker nations. The basic principle of every man is my brother appeals to many. It’s sad that we fail so often, but I think we are still moving toward that goal.

            • Mathius says:

              In truth, Mathius is probably closer to right then you.

              Bookmarking this..

              😀

          • Mathius says:

            True, he may be extreme for his groups (Christians / North Carolina). Maybe he is the fringe.

            However, a huge number of Christians and people in North Carolina are sympathetic to his message – that homosexuality (and those who practice it) are sick / disgusting / abominations / evil / immoral / sub-human / etc. (A huge number of non-Christians and residents of other states as well). Maybe “most” are more mild. We pick the extreme examples because it’s so clear. You can’t point at it and “eh.. quit complaining, it’s not so bad.” It IS so bad. Maybe even “most” Christians would walk away. But, let’s say, 30% would stay and listen and agree? That sounds like a plausible number to me. That’s a huge number of people showing an inappropriate level of tolerance for hate. And, as far as the Gandhi quote, nothing could be more un-Christian than tolerating hate.

            And that’s why we need to point it out and confront it.

            Adding: North Carolinians.. North Caroliniens.. North Caroliners.. North Carolinites… North Caroleanians… ?

            • According to who? I doubt the % is that high…at least the way you describe it as disgusting, abominations..etc.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              30% showing intolerance!

              Mmmmmmmmmm…………..Isn’t that about the same number who identify as Progressive or those that identify as Democrats?

          • Amen to that. One bad apple gets us all thrown out.

            Here is most Baptists opinion of Gays Mat. God loves the person but hates the sin. But that is for God to judge, not man. And that is not saying that all Gays will go to hell. But it is to say that, if you are truly saved by Jesus Christ, you will not continue to live in sin. You will still BE a sinner, and you will still be human and prone to human mistakes. But GOD will chastise you for straying. It’s is not mans job. Like people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks.

            But if you are truly a Christian, you will have a change in your heart that will change your life, and thus your lifestyle. However, Satan will be on your back, trying his best to get you back into sin. A drinker or Drug user would have the same problem. The difference is that yoour will then have God on your side to fight for you, and to help you avoid the temptation to slide back into that lifestyle. It is not easy, but nothing worth doing never is.

    • I’m coming right out with this…

      What is the sudden need to defend the gay community lately?

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking gays. I just think that there is hate speech toward all different groups and it’s all wrong. It seems like suddenly gays are the hot topic and I wonder why? What is the difference between bashing gays, or bashing blacks, or bashing whites, or jews, or hispanics?

      • Mathius says:

        I think the problem is that bashing gays is tolerated and approved of in many quarters. If you call the President a.. err.. n-word from a pulpit and wind up on youtube, you’re going to find yourself out of the job pretty fast. But bashing gays is perfectly ok somehow?

        I don’t approve of hate in general. Not just hate-speech, but hate itself. It’s poison. Nothing good ever comes of hate. But I can’t change human nature.

        And I don’t think we should legislate against hate speech. I think suppressing hate just makes it fester and evolve into extremism. Hate should just be confronted whenever/wherever possible with a lack of approval, honestest disagreement, love, tolerance (for the hated, not the hater), reason, education, etc.

        So, no, it’s not OK to bash blacks or whites or Jews or Hispanics. But society is doing a pretty good job of making it clear that we don’t tolerate or approve of racism or bigotry in against those classes. Yes, it survives in pockets, but it’s nowhere near as open or widespread as homophobia. Yet, we smile and nod along as radio hosts call homosexuals abominations. Well, no, that’s not OK. And that’s why we make such a stink over it. It’s not the speech itself, per say, it’s the acceptability of that speech in public discourse.

        ——————————————-

        You know, I refer to myself as a Jew even though I don’t believe in God or any of the religious aspects of Judaism. One of the reasons, in fact one of the main reasons, is the social conscience of the Jewish people. I’ll ignore the orthodox, who are as crazy as the radical Christians, but for most Jews, we have a strong tradition of being the oppressed people. We wallow in our persecution. We celebrate it in our major holidays. It is the core of our identity as a people. When we talk about the escape from slavery in Egypt, we don’t say “when they escaped,” we say “when I escaped.” It’s all designed to drive home a single point – you, you personally, every currently alive Jew have to bear the weight of our historical oppression and bring that to mind when considering others. So it gives us a strong foundation from which to look at the oppression of others and say, no – that is not OK. I know what it’s like to be the victim – I cannot stand idly by and watch others being victimized. Of course, it’s entirely cultural to me, not religious, but it should give you some sense of where I’m coming from on this issue.

        A majority of Jews (51 percent) strongly support gay marriage, by far the largest support among religious groups. Only 24 percent of all Americans take the same position. Another 30 percent of Jews somewhat favor gay marriage, leading to 81 percent support overall, compared to 48 percent of the nation. Among white Evangelicals, by contrast, only 6 percent strongly and 14 percent somewhat favor gay marriage.

        Source

        • I’ll tell you one thing. If the Gay community didn’t throw their lifestyle in everyones face and make sure everyone knows that they are Gay, they would not have so many haters. I have noticed that the Gay bashing has risen in direct proportion to the “coming out” and celebration of the Gay lifestyle.

          • Mathius says:

            There was a great poignant moment in the x-men II movie.. Nightcrawler (who is blue skinned and demonic looking) is talking to Mystique (who is blue skinned and demonic looking, but able to shape-shift and appear “normal”):

            Nightcrawler: Excuse me? They say you can imitate anybody, even their voice.
            Mystique: [as Nightcrawler] Even their voice.
            Nightcrawler: Then why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else.
            Mystique: Because we shouldn’t have to.

            —————–

            What you’ve just said, in effect is, we wouldn’t bash them if they just stayed in the closet and hid who they are.

            Because they shouldn’t have to.

        • Being an old Washington Heights boy, I have to share with you one of the comments of an Orthodox friend from my youth. In our old State Senate/ Assembly District, which at the time was predominantly Jewish he said, “Adolph Hitler could get elected here of he ran on the Democratic line.”

          I completely agree with your statements but would add one thing. In addition to being the perennial underdog and therefore siding with the current underdog, there has been a strong desire in the Liberal Jewish community to gain the support of allies for themselves by their political stands. I would point to the courageous stand of Jews on the Civil Rights issues (Schwerner and Goodman) which unfortunately has led to the Jackson’s and Sharpton’s who, if they could, would send the Jews into concentration camps.

          I had a black tenant leader once who ran a years long rent strike against my company, and our predecessor, (we inherited the rent strike). A brilliant speaker and an actor to boot, (you have seen him on “Law and Order”),I accidentally overheard him discussing the case with his Legal Aid lawyer in the halls of Center Street. There was an invective laced tirade against the landlord of which the mildest comments were the repeated G– D— Jews this, G– D—— Jews that. This, to a free lawyer who was himself a Jew. I could not resist the temptation, walked around the corner and spouted out, “Wanna go into the courtroom and say that in front of judge Levine?”. I just loved playing mind games with the guy.

          Antisemitism unfortunately is such a deep seated psychosis that it can not be overcome by the false sense of being on the right side of an issue and therefore the “good guy”. One of the advantages of being a Christian is being able to hear a very small portion of other Christians spout off nonsense about Jews. When I get to jump in, first I get questioned about being a (secret) Jew myself because these folks are just so warped that they can’t get their minds around a non-Jew not being on their side. I seek no kudos here, it took me a lot of years to work up the courage to jump into conversations, in many cases uninvited, and start off with, “Aren’t 6 million dead enough for you”. .

          • And I don’t understand it either. I live in the deep South. I am a Southern Baptist. We back Isreal and the Jewish people consistently. Because God says that they are “his” people. And he warns not to persecute them because of it. The Germans did and look what ultimately happened to them.

            Now it looks like it’s starting again. And Liberal Progressives and Obama are at the heart of it in this Country. Deja Vu? I sure hope not! I won’t back it. Neither will ANY real Christian church.

          • Mathius says:

            Well said.

            But it goes to the point: how can a people who have been so discriminated against stand to watch idly as another group of people are discriminated against? It’s why we are 81% in favor of gay rights. Frankly, I’m somewhat surprised it isn’t higher.

            Anti-sematism is strong (and not going away), but the Jews have a lot – a lot – of political and economic clout these days. For now, at least, the anti-semites are no threat to us. Not in America, anyway, and especially not in the deep-blue states. But gay people aren’t in the same boat. So a lot of us consider it a duty to help advocate for a just cause. It’s not about garnering political brownie points (although for some, I’m sure it is), but rather about doing the right thing because some day, you hope that others will remember and do the right thing for you if need be.

            Good for you for what you said. And, as the SUFA token Jew, I award you the rank of honorary Jew.

      • None at all…..having an opinion is different but bashing is out regardless of what it is. It is immature.

      • Anita,

        Gays are the new cause celeb. In effect they are the Tulip Frenzy of this generation. I am astounded myself but not surprised with how far this thing is going. Back in the old days the issue as defined by the gay community itself (think Stonewall) was just leaving them alone and not picking on them. Well that was mostly accomplished but mark my words, nobody, absolutely nobody living on the outside of the asylum ever thought for one minute in the 1960’s, 70’s or 80’s that there would even be discussion of the absurdity of a transgender Mr/Ms Universe or gay marriage. It’s amazing just how far these things can go and the life they have.

        • Indeed. I hear from my son and his friends, this is a middle school crowd, that it’s normal to see guys/guys or girls/girls making out in the hallway of the school. I must be old because I’m not seeing that as normal at all. I guess the bright side is that will curb the teen pregnancy problem in a hurry.

          • Well see Anita, there is no normal. While the mere thought that a “normal” exists is both judgmental and prejudiced. We have gotten to the point where science and statistics take a second place to: (SKT breaking into song) ” feelings, nothing more than feelings” .

            Some might also postulate that the new normal is in fact abnormal.

  41. Texas is returning controls back to local school boards. Merit pay beats out tenure in Texas schools by 84% in Tarrant county alone. Teachers are rated according to performance standards of their pupils. We have also decided, by popular vote. to not change the standards to fit the population but to raise the population to fit the standards. Education standards are being risen to 75 as passing. A failing grade is 74 and below. Effective in 2014. there will be no classes taught in Spanish only….all classes will be taught in English and remedial English classes will be held in summer schools. No longer will a class be held back because no one speaks English. Preschoolers will have the opportunity to enroll in cost free English classes instead of kindergarten. Failure to read English is no longer going to be an option.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Nice to see that people can still apply common sense to there decisions 🙂 Go Texas!

    • Mathius says:

      I know the US has no official language. Is English the legal / official language of Texas?

      • Not having an official language does not mean that the government or anyone else should be on the hook to offer all services in all languages. If they do not wish to learn english, even when free classes are available, they are free to find a private option for education. We use a LOT of legalspeak in our official documents and laws in this country. Many people cannot understand this sort of language, especially that used in legislation. Does that mean that it must be rewritten in simple terms? No, it means you hire a lawyer to read it for you. I see no difference. I do support simpler language in legal documents and legislation, but that, to me, is like the option for free english classes. If that still is not good enough, then hire a lawyer or do without.

        Also, if you do support multilingual education options because not to do so would be some sort of government “force”, then you should support ALL legislation be written in easy to understand terms as well as multiple languages, thus wiping out almost all current legislation. Is that the case?

      • HI Mathius….no, English is not an official language of Texas….Texan is the official language….however, I know you had a serious side to your question. The financial numbers show that it is easier and cheaper to have English classes than it is to put everything is multiple languages. It is a cost issue.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13

          I always laugh at the anti American multi-culturists over this language issue. They are always pointing to the rest of the world as an example of “enlightenment”.

          Yet they forget that the Emperor was not able to UNIFY China until he established a SINGLE NATIONAL language.

          Hope your week is going well my Texican friend.
          JAC

          • @ JAC

            The interesting thing about a balanced budget amendment in the State Constitution is that…….are you ready for this……..the budget must be balanced. So, to balance the budget, we look at the highest cost to the State…..it is health care and education. So, we picked education issues over reductions or changes in current health care. We actually looked at this thing…in the Vulcan way and that is to use logic over emotion. We have to balance the budget…period. We do not have to raise taxes and we cannot borrow money because we cannot run a deficit.

            So, we look at consolidations and logic first. It shows that we can save almost 1.5 Billion on a 21 billion and change budget by simply changing two things. Eliminate Spanish only classes where all subjects were taught in Spanish and there was NO incentive to speak English and change that to sponsoring English classes….and not restricting it to students only but to students and their family……..free of charge. This promotes learning English before enrollment in schools and, thereby, eliminating duplicating classes. It reduces our teacher expense by 22% OVER the cost of the English classes.

            The second thing was to change the way teachers are being rewarded. Tenure is out and merit is in….and merit is measured by the accomplishment of goals. And, the principal of the school has the authority over the teachers in hiring and firing because the principal is rated and his/her continuing employment and reaching the goals of the State of Texas. The principal is under the administration of the local school board which is under the watchful eye of the budget department when it comes to allocated money.

            Texas has no problem with teacher’s unions as there are not any….there is an association but it is not a bargaining unit but actually sits on the State budget committee and has direct input but actually sees the numbers. The benefit of this is with a balanced budget, there is only so many dollars. Reality and logic is in and emotion is out. It is cold and hard because everyone must operate within the budget.

            Now, what this HAS done,,,,,,is make the budget committee ever so powerful and now a political appointment. However, it is still a committee and cannot raise taxes as that responsibility lies with LOCAL school boards and local taxing authority. In addition, local school boards now have the additional authority and the right to raise additional funds through non taxing methods as there is no robin hood rules.

            Pretty cool, huh, This is what a forced balanced budget will do.

        • Mathius says:

          Cost…

          Cost…

          Cost…

          Will mull this for a while…

          But while I’m mulling, I’d like to ponder something. Today Hispanics are outpacing whites in birth rates. That’s not immigration, legal or illegal, but births in the US – instant legal citizens. Now, I know it’s not happening much in Maine or Alaska, but I grew up in Southern California, and Texas demographics aren’t too different (neither is the weather for that matter.. boy I miss it!).

          So, consider this, Tex, in 30 years, when Spanish speakers outnumber English speakers among legal US citizens in the Independent Republic of Texas, will cost be sufficient justification if they try to change the law to Spanish-only education because it’s not cost effective to have English?

          (remember, what’s good for the goose is good for the…. cleaver girl.. ::screaming::)

          • Sure would be………and I have no problem with that. If that is the way of Texas, that is the way it goes. It would be hypocritical of me to say other wise…….read above as to the budget.
            “””” Raptors converging””””………………..they run in packs……….(more screaming)

            • thedreadpiratemathius says:

              ::Tosses severed heads of several raptors at D13’s feet::

              That’s no way to win a debate, sir.

              Y’AARRGH!

            • thedreadpiratemathius says:

              ::tosses severed raptor heads at D13’s feet::

              That’s no way to win a debate, sir!

              Y’AAAARGGGGH!!

            • ::tosses severed raptor heads at D13′s feet::

              That’s no way to win a debate, sir!

              Y’AAAARGGGGH!!

          • One or two other things……..California Demographics are far different in that there is no sanctuary in Texas…..AND…..no entitlement programs in trouble…those are in the balanced budget.

            Secondly, the vote in San Antonio, Fort Worth, and Dallas showed that 64% of the voting Hispanic population was in favor of this. There is a huge gap between the Hispanic Citizens and the Hispanic non citizens. The Hispanic citizens sit on the school boards just like anyone else and they do not like the fact that they are paying taxes for non paying Hispanics trying to get under the radar. It really is a relief to go to a local school board meeting and listen. Budget requirements make people think rationally.

  42. Just A Citizen says:
  43. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd

    Hooray! At long last! Somebody finally woke up!

    • I’ve heard rumblings that Cardinal Dolan may be the future Pope Dolan. That would be interesting.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      If it weren’t for Catholics the Donk party would rarely win.

      • Correct, it is time that they woke up. If that means a schism, then so be it!

        Reagan proved that they can respond with common sense if the groundwork is properly laid. Otherwise there is just too much Kennedy worship and stories from their Grandparents about the evil Herbert Hoover and the saintly FDR.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          SK

          I think it goes much deeper than that. They supported those socialists because the teachings of the church have best fit the socialist model.

          I believe this goes back to the entire notion of the STRONG and CENTRALIZED authority of Rome.

          The strongest attacks I get against my VDLG views on other sites seem to come from Catholics. Even accusing me of “sin against God” for stating that Welfare by Govt is immoral.

          • charlieopera says:

            stating that Welfare by Govt is immoral.

            Hording is immoral. I don’t usually agree with anything that has to do with the catholic church (or any other church) but they’re close to right here … it’s a sin against humanity … the greater good … decency.

            • Mathius says:

              Hoarding by the Catholic church.. boy, how many people do you think they could help if they didn’t have all that wealth locked up in the Vatican?

              I wonder how much the Throne of St. Peter would go for on eBay? I bet they could feed a lot of hungry children.

              But, you know, the Pope needs his fancy chair because one from Ikea just wouldn’t cut it.

              • Sorry Matt, that’s crap. How many Hospitals, schools, orphanages, nursing homes has that church built. As I keep pointing out to those here on the Northeast, left coast, St. Vincents Hospital in NYC Greenwich Villiage is no more because it went broke treating all those indigent AIDS patients that nobody else wanted for so long.

              • Mathius says:

                How much do you think that fancy hat and staff cost? Or the popemobile?

                oooh… or they could stop molesting children and paying massive settlements.. that would work too..

              • Buck the Wala says:

                “oooh… or they could stop molesting children and paying massive settlements.. that would work too..”

                Come on Mathius….try to be realistic at least.

              • I could and probably should point out the absurdity of having museums or “White Houses” or “Gracie mansions” when there are so many poor out there. Why by golly if it would buy just one turkey dinner for a homeless person, we ought to sell off the entire Library of Congress. Matt and Buck, all institutions have their seat, some besides the Vatican are pretty darn impressive too but the Vatican is an easy target.

                I’m glad you brought up the molestations, makes my point on my other somewhat lengthy post.

                Gracias,

                Senores

              • Mathius says:

                I’m sorry… where was my head..

                Ooh! I bet they could rent out St. Peter’s Basilica for bar mitzvah parties.. that ought to be enough to keep St. Vincents Hospital in business, no?

              • Of course you, Matt, could be more generous with your wallet. You’re the guy with the Lexus and huge flat screen. There’s a word for that..starts with an H

              • Mathius says:

                I could be. However, I’m too busy hoarding my wealth to make sure that my daughter some day can go to college debt free and have a little left over afterward. Once I’ve ensured the security of my progeny and my own retirement, I will give more (note, “more” implies I currently give already) to good causes.

                Good causes, by the way, which probably won’t include the Catholic church.

              • “Hoarding is cultural”

                Yes, it is.

                African cultures punish hoarding – it wastes food, since what you don’t eat today is naturally there tomorrow, but what you waste by not eating it is not. This is called a “Short time preference”

                European cultures reward hoarding – what you couldn’t save over the summer and fall starves you to death in the winter. This is called a “Long time preference”.

                Socialism is by far a “African” mentality – short-time preference belief system.

                However, all great human works comes from long-time preference people and cultures. Though African was packed full of people, you saw no great cities (except along trading coasts), contrary to the great cities of China and Europe.

                This is not to say one preference is better then an other as a choice – but choosing one eliminates the other, and in the modern world, future-based work ethics and goals work best and the Socialist ideals become massively destructive.

            • Charlie,

              Hoarding is immoral to you, therefore people savings is immoral to you.

              This is why your philosophy is so disastrous – you make the most fundamental aspect of prosperity to be immoral, which is why your philosophy always leads to economic collapse and desperation.

              • Mathius says:

                Hoarding tendencies (note: normal hoarding, not as-seen-on-tv hoarding) may actually have a genetic basis. It turns out the equatorial races tend not to have as strong of an inclination to hoard – presumably because food is always plentiful and recent evolution didn’t favor the unnecessary expenditure of energy. However, as you move further away, into say northern Europe and especially amongst Eskimos, hoarding appears more pronounced – presumably because long cold winters and short food supplies necessitate saving and preparedness and recent evolution wiped out those who failed at this.

                Charlie obviously missed this gene 😉

              • charlieopera says:

                Actually, no, BF. There are other forms of prosperity that have nothing to do with wealth.

              • You are right – its called “theft” and that is what you advocate to do to fix the problem of prosperity of savings.

          • It is a relatively recent phenomena. The Church always stood against the Socialists and Communists. The whole Vatican II thing turned everything on its head. Liberation theology became the norm while strongly held beliefs, most of which I consider truths were discarded as rapidly as possible leading many religious and the faithful to abandon the church.

            It may be heresy for me to state this but the Church should stay the hell out of government and advocacy. Jesus said that “the poor will always be with us” and they are and will be. That is just human nature. people will make mistakes and it leads to their impoverishment. He also said, “Render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar’s and to God those things that are God’s.” Taking those two statements, I don’t think that you can get much clearer. It is our job as Christians to minister to the poor. We have done this, we have paid for our schools, our Hospitals and our social services which have been and are open to all. it is the new breed of “progressive” Catholics who want to throw off this individual responsibility and look to government for it. I think as a Christian, you will not find salvation by ignoring the poor, sick man on the corner and thinking you will make your way to heaven because you voted for a politician who “cares” about the poor man and will try to help him.

            Taking a strong religious stand for morality in business, government or the law is not a socialist model. What has happened is that we Catholics as an institution have thrown in our lot with government which is never a smart move. Better that we understand among ourselves what we stand for and encourage each other individually to act that way.

            My position from inside the church as a semi-involved Catholic is telling. We had a pastor who was an extremist and modeled himself on the hip, with it, Protestant pastors to the extent you never saw him in a black suit with a Roman collar. This guys sermons were off the wall. The wife and I would find ourselves frequently at issue with him and friends who thought he was OK. She and I were amazed that these folks, who sat through the same homilies as we did had no clue as to what he had said, I doubt that one in 20 could even tell you the subject. This in turn brought to mind what one of my religious teachers said in High School about Catholics “going through the motions”. That teacher, a true conservative in all matters had a real respect for the more traditional protestants in that they were aware of what was going on, knowledgeable of their religion and well able to defend it.

            There is a huge split within the church going on now. The Vatican is and has been trying to rein in the wild people for the past 20 years or so. Rome realizes that the church in America has been doing its own thing way too long. Don’t get me wrong, Rome is not always right on all matters but fundamentally they do believe in absolutes and that not everything is or should be up for negotiation. The church in America is now reaping the whirlwind it has helped sow. We Catholics, JAC, as you have said or intimated have put these Pelosi’s, Kennedy’s, Biden’s,Cuomos, O’malley’s, Sebalius’s, Corzine’s in office. Somehow we thought ( I never did) that when push came to shove they would be loyal to the central core of our religion and its values. They have demonstrated for all to see that they are purely secular and Catholic only to the extent of securing votes to further their agenda.

            In the past half century, the church has participated in the destruction of the “evil empire”. Centrally, it also stands for life and for a value system which has been the culmination of three thousand years of human thought, study, struggle, trial and error. I would go so far as to say that it is the only powerful force on this planet that has the potential to stand in the way of a new dark age and I think most of us can see that coming.

            There are a few of us old timers out here who will upon occasion muse about the recent scandals in our church and the damage that has been wrought to the Church’s credibility at this particular point in Western History. Maybe I’m getting a bit mumbo-jumbo but I can see the Dark One at work here. All my education, all my reading, all my experience over the past 65 years has never made me doubt for one minute the existence of evil, pure unadulterated evil. If there is a yin, there is a yang.

  44. @ Buck…….g’ afternoon…sir……..hope today finds you well in the land of Joisey,,,

    :::::collecting severed raptor heads for stew pot:::::

    • By the way,,,,,Mathius was being realistic…….he is a little upset today because I would not let the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders dance naked on my front lawn…had to move them to the side lawn away from him so his lovely wife and child would not be compromised.

      • Buck the Wala says:

        Been a really hectic week at the office so far…trying to read along here and there, but just too busy at the moment. Otherwise, things are good. How about you?

        And please, for the sake of the rest of us, allow those cheerleaders to return to the front lawn!! It’s for the greater good ya know!

        • charlieopera says:

          Buck, I’m putting in an order from A&G italian foods for Saturday. Good eats at casa Stella Saturday afternoon (a good writing friend is stopping for lunch).

          • Buck the Wala says:

            Very nice — I’ll have to try something else from there (and pick up some more sfagliotelle of course!) next time I’m down that way.

      • Mathius says:

        Care to share your family recipe for Boiled Raptor Head Stew?

        And, yes, I agree with Buck.. front yard is just fine. Greater Good and all…

  45. charlieopera says:

    Stephen: I have these arguments with my wife (very religious she is) all the time. My theory is the church (Catholic especially) has done more harm than good. She agrees with you. I don’t know to prove it one way or the other, but I look to the intolerance of the church (never mind the hypocrisy) and the countless lives ruined (not just physically) from its influence.

    My wife points to the charity, etc. (as you do). Tough battle to wage either way, I guess.

    @Mathius … “it’s all in the gene, Charlie. It’s the gene makes the horse run. The horse has got absolutely nothing to do with it.”

    Name that movie and win a cookie. It’s one of my top all time.

    • Mathius says:

      Re Quote: No clue, sorry. But I could really go for a cookie 😦

      The Church has done far more harm than good. It single-handedly held science and human progress back more more than a thousand years as it subjugated billions of people, legitimized unimaginable evil, tortured, raped, murdered, forced ‘conversions,’ and wrought wholesale slaughter across continents. It demanded tribute under threat of a divine power (and failing that, a more terrestrial power), using it predominantly to reinforce their stranglehold on the people. Propped up kinds and dictators, justified slavery, manifest destiny, and the oppression of homosexuals worldwide. It’s pigheaded adherence to dogma over the few scientific voices of the day cost 1/3 of Europeans their lives in the plague(s). Even today, they stand behind a wall of silence and protect pedophiles in their midst when they take advantage of young children from a position of power and divine authority. The things the Catholic church as done make the Taliban look like Palm Beach, Florida.

      No amount of charity makes up for that – sins of the father, and all that. As the Church itself preaches, you cannot be absolved of a sin unless you are truly repentant – certainly they cannot atone for those sins while their leaders sit in a gilded palace on a magnificent golden thrown surrounded by Swiss guards and unimaginable wealth.

      Meanwhile, of course, St Vincent’s had to be shut down for lack of funding.

      • Wow, do you ever have your history ass backwards. there was this little thing called the Dark Ages and there were these people called Monks who used to spend a whole lot of time copying ancient documents so they wouldn’t be lost. Then there were these guys see, one was St. Augustine. As you ponder Just War Theory, think of him. He sort of pioneered the field. As an attorney, I’m almost certain you were exposed to philosophy along the way. There was this other fellow St. Thomas Aquinas who had quite a bit to say in the field. Some look to him to this day. There were maybe a few hundred thousand others. And damn it, at the risk of being called insensitive, the Church and its Crusades, right up to the late 1600’s, are probably the reason you are not speaking Arabic today.

        Man is not God, man makes mistakes, the church is composed of men who make mistakes. All religions are composed of men who make mistakes. You have the chutzpa to accuse the Church of causing the Black Death? Holy Sh—.Batman!, as my DI used to say. Last I looked the germ theory of disease was not fully accepted until the 19th century, long after the church’s strangle hold on science was broken.

        I could spend hours here but find no way I could ever contravene your complete misunderstanding of the past 2,000 years. Just one more thing. those evil Jesuits who forced conversion on the native South and Central American population did accomplish one rather positive thing. They stopped the ritual sacrifices that the Aztecs and Incas did which could take up to 25,000 human lives in a day.

        My Daddy always taught me never to argue religion. Certainly never argue it with someone who either is drinking or just too obstinate to even admit there might be another side. In the first instance, I actually had a gun pulled on me because of my position. This is the second. So, go ahead, let your prejudice rule your reason. I can’t help that.

        St. Vincent’s could not have been saved. It was in that deep of a hole. You miss my point, the hospital died because of its commitment to service. Like anybody cares.

        • Stephen, you are right. You can’t argue with them. They have Christianity mixed up with Religion and don’t understand that it is two different things. Even some religions get that mixed up. I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus as the Son of God, the Saviour of my Soul. And as such, I am no more guilty of what may have happened back in the Crusades than I am of what was done to the slaves before the Civil War.

          I am responsible for MY actions and sins. I am not responsible for what happened before I was born.

          • Tell you what. Stephen and I will pray for you that God will show you the truth. I will pray that God gives you a change of heart. That he will hold you in the palm of his hand and show you he is real. This will of course require that you allow him in.

            • I got your back SK.

              Esom, I have come to realize that SK is firmly rooted in his Catholic faith. No need for an intervention. He’s doing a fine job keeping our agnostic Jew in check. 🙂

              • I am not worried about SK. I am concerned for the rest. Attacking Christianty is a dangerous road to take. Especially since being a Non-Christian, they don’t know what they are talking about.

          • They have Christianity mixed up with Religion

            Pretty sure I was attacking the Catholic Church. Not “Christianity” or “religion” as a whole…

            As a religion, if one were to judge by the texts, it’s a generally ok religion. There’s a lot of love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek which makes me like it. But, then again, there’s a lot of angry wrathful stuff in there too. And plenty of bigotry, slavery, and other assorted bad stuff which makes me dislike it. On balance, if you must have a ‘religion,’ Christianity’s not a bad way to go (obviously, I prefer agnostic Judaism, but that’s just me). That said, I’ve never met anyone who actually follows the Christian holy books (note, plural – Old Testament still counts whether you like it or not) to a T. People tend to pick and choose the parts that suit them, which is fine by me, but it makes it difficult to judge the religion itself.

            That said, it’s easy for me to judge an institution which has leveraged the power of religion for nearly two millennia as a cudgel to oppress billions of people. As I said, to quote myself, “The things the Catholic church [h]as done make the Taliban look like Palm Beach, Florida.” (emphasis added)

            They stopped the ritual sacrifices that the Aztecs and Incas did which could take up to 25,000 human lives in a day. I think your number is a little high, but whatever. Here’s a question: how are the Aztecs and Incas doing today? What? You say they were wiped out? Oh well.. moving on..

            Church and its Crusades, right up to the late 1600′s, are probably the reason you are not speaking Arabic today. So? What’s wrong with Arabic as a language? English is a terrible language. The spelling, syntax, grammar, incoherent and spastic exceptions to every rule.. Spanish is far better – I’m pretty uninformed about the linguistic qualities of Arabic, but it has to be better that this schlock.

            Besides, Arabs did a lot more for the advancement of human rights, human knowledge, and civilization than the Church ever did (Thomas Aquinas not withstanding). It wasn’t until the crusades, along with massive European persecution, radicalized them that the Arab world because what you think of it as today. The Arab people, Arab thought, and Arabic language were doing a great job of colonizing Europe (yes, there was definitely some Arab aggression, though nothing out of par for the day). It was the Church (big C = Catholic Church, not to be confused with Christianity or religion in general) which felt threatened and decided to use the large defensive army they had build to protect themselves from the Vikings to attack and “reclaim” the Holy Land from the “heathens.”

            I am no more guilty of what may have happened back in the Crusades than I am of what was done to the slaves before the Civil War. ABSOLUTELY! You – you, personally, are not. But an institution cannot shrug off its history so readily. You weren’t there. But The Church was. You bear no responsibility, but the Church cannot simply shrug off it’s guilt by putting up a sign saying “under new management.”

            You have the chutzpa[h] to accuse the Church of causing the Black Death? No. They didn’t cause it. It started in China and spread to Europe. What the Church did was proclaim an official sanctioned medicine. Anyone who questioned Church doctrine was severely punished. As such, medicine, as a field, was largely stymied. A free populace could have maybe found a way to manage the disease, but the Church insisted that only God could help, mandated church attendance (nothing helps a plague like cramming everyone together in a small space), etc. By the time the Plague was running rampant through Europe, the Arabs (“heathens,” you know) had figured out that hygiene helped retard the spread, that (somehow) cats helped prevent the Plague, that washing your hands in vinegar helped prevent all kinds of diseases from spreading, that it was better to rinse wounds in wine and wrap them in clean bandages than it was to leave them open to allow for the ‘release of bad humors’, that covering your face with cloth could protect you from certain diseases, and more. But any attempt to import this information or put it to use was considered heresy (there’s a great story about a nunnery which tried to use many of these techniques (13th century-ish) and whose entire membership were summarily burned at the stake as witches). The Church didn’t cause the problem, but they sure as hell exacerbated it.

            PS: Good use of the word chutzpah!

            That [God] will hold you in the palm of his hand and show you he is real. This will of course require that you allow him in. If god exists, he doesn’t require me to allow him in. But we both know it doesn’t work that way. I require evidence, and God has refused for the last few centuries to give us any concrete evidence. I’m not sure why if he was once willing to shower our starving with mana from heaven that he is no longer willing, surly it would help bolster my faith. All I need is one talking Burning Bush, a disembodied finger writing on the wall, something. But he doesn’t seem inclined to “show he is real” anymore. These days he seems to want you to take it on faith and I just can’t do that.

            As Christopher Hitchens (maybe Dawkins?) once said (paraphrasing): If, when I die, I find myself at the pearly gates, I hope that God will forgive my sincere and honest lack of faith and prefer it over false protestations of a faith I could not hold. After all, he made me this way.

            • Last paragraph…nice cop out. 🙄

              • Hey, either I’m right and there is no god, or I’m wrong and there is but he designed me not to believe in him. Hardly seems like I’m to blame either way.

            • Matt, indeed, the misuse of religion has been the source of many attrocities. Really, it is “believers” that follow “leaders” blindly that has led to pretty much every major attrocity in history. That said, religion on a more individual basis, has done more good than pretty much anything else. Strong faith in something is essential to drive and improvenment in people. George Washington Carver attributes his incredible scientific achievements to God and his faith, as do thousands of others in history. In fact, it is far easier to find a great scientist of faith than to find one without it. Even those who do not profess faith were driven by something, even if it was simply a belief in science itself.

              The Catholic Church was created as a tool of control by Emporer Constantine. It was the corruption of christianity into a state religion. There were some who followed their faith as purely as possible, and who saved not only religious texts, but thousands of other documents and artifacts and bits of knowledge through the wars and oppression that was the dark ages. A period, I might add, not created by the Catholics alone. The Catholic leadership did involve themselves in government and vice-versa. The church was full of corruption and power seekers and downright psychos, and they weilded that power often. All of that, however, was because of a joining of state and religion, the combining of the power of belief with authority and wealth. Separation of power is the only way to avoid such vile results.

              As for black death, maybe the church supressed medicine and a cure could have been found, maybe it would not have mattered. Supressing science is an act of those seeking control. In fact, anyone saying anything is “settled” and beyond debate is seeking control or is afraid of facing their own inaccuracy.

              As for the Aztecs, they were not “noble savages”. They had their own religion mixed with government that, had they not been behind us on technology, would have lead to colonization the other way, and you would not be a fan of the results, I am quite certain.

              I do not know if the Crusades really turned the Muslims into what they are today. Every religious group or dynasty has expanded technology and all this great stuff and then hit a level where they no longer desire change. It happened in China, Japan, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Africa (the Zulu), Europe, etc. Christianity and Catholicism has not done anything that any other religion has not done, we just happened to snap out of it and pursue better weapons first, thus facilitating the colonization of the world.

              In short, it is the joining of church and state, not the church itself, that is always at the root of the great ills you point out.

              • Indeed.

                So, back to the beginning of the conversation.. Per Charlie: “My theory is the church (Catholic especially) has done more harm than good.”

                My conclusion: The Catholic Church has done more harm than good.

                The Christian religion, and religion in general.. well I’m still on the fence about that one.

                In short, it is the joining of church and state, not the church itself, that is always at the root of the great ills you point out. Maybe… maybe.. I’ll have to mull this. It seems to me that my objections are all to the organization’s use of authority and power to cause or condone evil. I don’t agree, but I don’t especially care either, about their stances on issues except where those are being used to affect my life (ie, through the government).

                However, is it not inherently evil to wield the power of ‘divine authority’ to scare and manipulate billions of people into following your will? Just because there is no longer much physical threat of violence doesn’t mean they aren’t constantly threatening impressionable children with lakes of fire and eternal suffering. Is that not wrong?

                Perhaps, maybe, it’s not so much only the joining of church and state so much as a centrally organized religion… ::continues mulling::

              • I could probably agree that the catoholic church has done more harm than good in history. I do not think that is the case as of now, tho there is still harm being done, obviously.

                Using fear to motivate behavioral change is always a bad idea. But it is certainly not just the Church or even just religion doing that. It is the favorite tool of governments and parents as well.

                Centralizing of religion does tend to create heirarchies which are consolidations of power, which always bring the temptation of abuse of power. So it may not be evil in and of itself, but its always a bad idea. For churches OR governments.

            • Yeah, I love the Arabic language – it is romantic and sentences sound like poetry when spoken sweetly – like Italian or French.

              • True alphabet?

                Phonetic spelling? (Note that ‘phonetic is not spelled phonetically)

                Gender orientation of nouns (ie, in Spanish ‘house’ (casa) is female and therefore ends in -a)?

                Externally borrowed word origins? (Half of English is stolen from other languages, ie, ‘algebra’ is Arabic)

                Syntax / grammar?

                Other thoughts?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Mathius

              One point of clarity, that may also help you in your evaluation of church/state mixing.

              The CHURCH of old DID NOT have an ARMY. It did not assemble an army against the Norse invasions.

              The armies belonged to various “kings” who then tied their fate to the Church for various reasons. Some out of faith. And others out of pure strategy to consolidate power.

              • The Church absolutely did have an ‘army’ of.. wait for it.. Swiss mercenaries. But you are technically correct. The armies of which I’m speaking did nominally belong to the kings. But the Kings were legitimized by the Church. As such, the Church (ie, the Pope) was ultimately in charge of those armies.

    • Pope of Greenwich Village

  46. @ Mathius……..Certainly sir:
    1- Large whole filled with South Texas Mesquit wood
    1- Large 110 gallon cauldron
    25 gallons Bohemia Ale
    25 gallons Metzcal Tequila
    10 gallons Grog
    5 large severed raptor heads (scales removed)
    10 pounds red skin potatoes (cut in half)
    10 pounds white onions (whole)
    5 pounds Jalapenos (chopped w/seeds)
    5 pounds Habanero Peppers (Genus: Capsicum, of the nightshade family)
    3 pounds Thyme
    3 pounds Rosemary
    10 pounds whole celery stalks
    10 pounds carrots (whole)
    15 pounds black olives
    15 pounds green olives
    25 pounds range fed Texas steer flanks (gutted and cleaned, of course)
    15 pounds of slice Mexican Chickens (feathered and trimmed)

    Instructions: Put in Ale, Tequila, and Grog. Put in Raptor heads and bring to boil. (until eyes glaze over.) (Remove eyes and pull raptor cheeks (meat only) and discard skull and membrane. Put Raptor teeth into boiling pot w/eyes. Cut steer flanks into bite sized chunks and put into pot. Add Chicken. Bring to additional boil. Add Raptor cheeks. Stir occasionally. Add all vegetables and spices except olives. Bring to rapid boil and then with green mesquite wood (lower heat) simmer for 12 hours stirring on occasion. Add olives.

    Four hours before done, on separate fire, bring 25 pounds of Texas Red Pinto Beans to boil and then simmer for three hours. When one hour left, add three pounds onions, Jalapenos, and Celery. Simmer for one more hour.

    Serve at sundown and recommend separate sleeping quarters.

  47. charlieopera says:

    It’s all in the gene, Charlie …

  48. Just A Citizen says:

    Definition of Marriage.

    How funny that we had a discussion about his …….. weeks ago…………. 🙂

    It appears that some of the “Gay Community” agree with those of us who were sticking on the “traditional definition” of the term “marriage”.

    So now we have the question of WHY a “minority” should be able to force the change in meaning, by petition no less.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/22/petition-definition-marriage-dictionary_n_1536135.html

    • “While we cannot change the oppressive and discriminatory way that some religions continue to define marriage, we can go to an even better place. I believe it is time to correct the definition of Marriage at our sources for what words mean: dictionaries.”

      “The way that some Religions define marriage” So he agrees that it is a religious institution, but objects to the way the Religions define it? But if it is a religious thing do we not have the RIGHT to define it as we see fit?? And how is it that it is Oppresive and Discriminatory? If my Church defines it, and we have Seration of Church and State….that means you don’t have the right to force us to bow to YOUR definition. Niether does the Government. The church can define marriage any way they choose. If we don’t want to marry Gays, we don’t have to.

      If the Government insists on putting their nose into marriage, then they can let a JOP marry them or some other govt official. And they can call that marrige. But I still say the Government should have no involvment AT ALL.

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