Weapon’s Conundrum

Well, SUFA, it has been a bit since I have offered you something new to read. And that is precisely what I am here to discuss with all of you (the few who remain 🙂 ). I come today prepared to hear everyone’s thoughts on the future of Stand Up For America. I got an email from the good Colonel a few weeks ago asking if I was shutting down SUFA. I had to answer that I don’t know what I am doing. But I think the time has come to have the discussion. So I will lay out where I stand on things and allow all of you to weigh in with your thoughts on how we should proceed. The reality is that we cannot proceed with the status quo (because the status is NOT… quo bonus points to those that can tell me where that quote comes from!)

First my thoughts on the discussions here at SUFA. When I started the site, I prided myself on keeping things civil for the most part. That was one of my main focuses. My belief was that we were all screwed so long as we kept arguing over stupid stuff and failing to learn from each other. So I wanted a place that wasn’t like the other sites. I wanted a place were different sides could come together and have respectful discussions. For quite a while we maintained that here. But over the last year or so, it has deteriorated. There is more name calling and disrespect here at SUFA than ever.

And I realize that I cannot stop that from happening. We are passionate people talking about a very important sphere of our lives: the people who aim to rule us and the tactics they use. And because the subject matter is so important, we all care a lot about it. Thus, we sometimes lose our heads. For others, it is simply their nature to be harsh or condescending. Whatever the cause, it isn’t the SUFA that I imagined it would be. To be clear, I don’t blame any of you for that. It is my failing to deal with. I just don’t have an answer on how to correct it without spending significant time monitoring the site and cracking down, which I just don’t have the time to do at this point.

Another by-product that I wasn’t necessarily prepared for were the personal attacks that come with the territory in political discourse. That isn’t to say that I can’t handle them, but it is tiring and at times I feel my blood pressure rising when people seem to deem that attacking me personally is a suitable response to disagreeing with my ideas or principles. The easiest way to discredit an opposing view seems to be to make false claims, scream racist, or whatever else that move people away from the actual content being discussed. Lately this has manifested in people sending me nasty notes about the fact that I “hide behind a fake name.” To those who continue to spout that, allow me a short response…

We, unfortunately, live in a world where having the right to say something doesn’t mean that you won’t be retaliated against for it. In a USA where we see regular stories about employers requiring Facebook passwords or firing people for what they say or do on their own time, it isn’t worth the risk to my career to be a public figure. Doing so means you are one google search away from losing a job simply for having an opinion. Do you know that not a single person in my workplace even knows that I have ever written a “political blog”? That is how careful you have to be when you are the owner of a political site like this one. If I am identified as the owner, I am held accountable for every nasty comment written here by me or any of you. Is that fair? No. Is it the unfortunate reality? Sadly, yes.

So to all of you who make that claim, believe me, it isn’t your whiny behind that I am trying to keep my identity from. You are inconsequential in that realm. I work from a logo so that my employers or any other authorities don’t have a reason staring them in the face to take any sort of negative action against me. Because that stuff is happening. It isn’t paranoia, it’s news…

I also have found over the last couple of years writing here at SUFA that I cannot reach the point where I am going to change the mind of those who made up their minds prior to reading a word I have written. Often there are comments such as “I stopped reading after the first paragraph…” Nothing says I had my mind made up on all subject matter before reading what I write more than that statement. I don’t begrudge those who do so. You have that right. But why should I bother arguing with you at this point. It is clear that you are not interested in my point of view, or anyone else’s other than your own for that matter.

But the biggest problem, and the one that DOES bother me and that I cannot seem to find an answer to… if that I don’t have anything to believe in from the two major parties OR from the fringe groups that attempt to become a third party OR the Americans who were tasked with keeping these idiots in line.

The Democrats and I simply have different philosophies about how to take care of people. I think taking care of those less fortunate is a laudable goal, but I believe that they go about it all wrong and blame the wrong people. Thus most of their solutions make things worse rather than better. There are social aspects of their agenda I wholeheartedly support, as you know. But overall, they want to make government uber-large with maximum control and minimal liberty.

The Republicans and I simply have different philosophies about what it means to respect people who have different lifestyles or thoughts than you. I believe wanting people to be “good” is a laudable goal, but I believe that they go about it all wrong and attempt to project their narrow views based on religious teachings on the population at large. There are fiscal aspects of their agenda that I wholeheartedly support. But overall, they want to make government uber-large with maximum dictation of social norms and minimal liberty.

The “third parties” unfortunately confine themselves to being a mess and, in a few cases, make the cause of liberty a top priority, while simultaneously losing their minds in other areas. Further, they often rely on ignoring reality in favor of the ideal. I like the ideals, but we cannot jump from A to Z, there are a lot of steps between that they don’t seem to be willing to acknowledge and they are not prepared to take.

Most frustrating are the people. It feels that many Americans have gotten to a place where they are content to live with their own hypocrisy and have no interest in resolving conflicts in their own philosophy. That I simply cannot understand. When I find a conflict between things I believe, or when hypocrisy in my own position is pointed out, I do my level best to resolve the conflict and eliminate hypocrisy. Over the last several years I have had literally hundreds of conversations with people where I took the time to show inconsistency or hypocrisy, and almost universally they can see what I am talking about and simply say, “well, that is what I believe and it isn’t going to change…” How did America get to this point?

Further, Americans have simply gotten lazy when it comes to both the political process and when it comes to taking care of themselves. With politics, most are content to be spoon fed whatever the two parties wish you to believe through the media, without the slightest bit of cynical questioning at all (thankfully, no one at SUFA falls into this category). They are led around by the nose by the very politicians that we are supposed to control. And this is made possible by the fact that they have zero interest in giving up all the government “things” that have made their lives “easier”. Self-reliance is a foreign concept to 90% of Americans, and that number will continue to grow.

Finally, the largest part of my problem right now is simply time. I don’t have the time that I used to have to devote to writing a political blog and participating in the discussions. My career change has been both challenging and rewarding. But mostly, it is time -consuming. And the little bit of free time that I do get, I really owe to Mrs. Weapon, who idly stood by while I dedicated all my free time to this blog for several years.

So what am I to do? I haven’t lost my passion for the subject matter. But I don’t have the time to dedicate like I used to. I haven’t lost my passion for helping people understand, but I don’t have the belief that I can make a difference with those people as they are too set in their ways. And I simply don’t believe there is much I can do to change the system as it sits now, as the only two real choices we are offered are so the same as to be like identical twins that only family members can tell apart.

I don’t want to shut down SUFA. But I do know that all of you deserve better than you are getting at this point. I will shut up and let everyone else weigh in at this point…

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Comments

  1. charlieopera says:

    We, unfortunately, live in a world where having the right to say something doesn’t mean that you won’t be retaliated against for it. In a USA where we see regular stories about employers requiring Facebook passwords or firing people for what they say or do on their own time, it isn’t worth the risk to my career to be a public figure. Doing so means you are one google search away from losing a job simply for having an opinion. Do you know that not a single person in my workplace even knows that I have ever written a “political blog”? That is how careful you have to be when you are the owner of a political site like this one. If I am identified as the owner, I am held accountable for every nasty comment written here by me or any of you. Is that fair? No. Is it the unfortunate reality? Sadly, yes.

    So to all of you who make that claim, believe me, it isn’t your whiny behind that I am trying to keep my identity from. You are inconsequential in that realm. I work from a logo so that my employers or any other authorities don’t have a reason staring them in the face to take any sort of negative action against me. Because that stuff is happening. It isn’t paranoia, it’s news…

    Another way to look at this is to say we are slaves to our wages, which kind of negates the liberty argument.

    I’m only half joking.

    The more power a corporation/company has (the more deregulated), the less autonomy its employees have. The concept is that so-called “liberty” is there for individual employees to walk away from their job, but the reality is they do so only at the expense of losing their income (and thus they are slaves to their wages). Or they can do what they are told and retain their income (again, slaves to their wages).

    The truth is that can happen under any system, but in our society, where the corporate employer has bought the legislature and judicial system (and where the government is used to bail out their mistakes), employees are shot down daily without recourse (while unions die a slow death daily and are crucified by non-union workers without collective bargaining rights). Therein lies the rub; where’s the liberty in that? In our society, the government is owned by the corporate world and workers get to suffer the consequences of that particular situation.

    BF’s solution, while pleasing to the mind (no government at all), is not a reality. Smaller government is a reality, but again, at the expense of the greater number of us for the benefit of the smallest number of us (what we have). Bigger government (in our system) means more corruption and more incompetence and more frustration.

    Maybe it’s time to change the system by which the corruption flourishes.

    As to SUFA’s to be or not to be … unless you choose to opt out the liberty aspect of discussions (i.e., people’s passions, inherent nastiness, arrogance, etc.), I doubt there’s much you can do to curtail it.

    “Exterminate the brutes” … Heart of Darkness …

    Then the choir will sing as essentially one and there will be much more harmony … it will probably be as boring as the day is long but it’ll be relative harmony … sort of like a shrill whistle that grows less shrill to the ear over time … so much so it puts one to sleep.

    • USWeapon says:

      Another way to look at this is to say we are slaves to our wages

      Well, Charlie, I don’t imagine that there is a way to defend against this comment being true. We are a slave to our wages by the definition that you provide. And you admit that this can be the case in some other form of government. But I submit that it has nothing to do with government. While our government has certainly exacerbated the issue, they are not the “cause”. If there were NO government would we not still be slaves to our wages? A man who wants to feed his family and provide for them will be a slave to his wages no matter the government system or lack thereof. I would say that the vast majority of humans would prefer to not have to work, but around the world they still do so because giving our time and effort for pay is how the system works.

      I don’t mean to diminish your point, because you have a good one on the power of corporations. But I think in honesty we have to start with a basic understanding of what the term slave to wages implies, which every person who ever worked a job for any other reason that because they wanted to has done, regardless of system or country.

      • charlieopera says:

        I don’t mean to diminish your point, because you have a good one on the power of corporations. But I think in honesty we have to start with a basic understanding of what the term slave to wages implies, which every person who ever worked a job for any other reason that because they wanted to has done, regardless of system or country.

        Very true; and an excellent point. It confirms my belief that the liberty argument, by and large, is a false argument; that we can only have so much liberty (without living in absolute anarchy); that we all have to sacrifice some measure of liberty for what amounts to communal security, etc. In our current system, our liberty becomes more and more squeezed by economics (i.e., poor economies, global markets, etc.). While what was the middle and certainly the bottom of the economic ladder sacrifice jobs, wages, etc. (reduced benefits and so on), the top of the ladder suffers not at all with the threat that they can pick up and leave at any time, etc. Too big to fail, etc. With that understand, so long as we buy into the system, our chains grow thicker (in my opinion). I do know people who’ve lost their jobs because of internet posting (as I’ve stated many times here); it is a very real threat in our society … and it just proves the point that money is the dominant power in our society and that money (the way it is used as a first deterrent to foreign nation states we don’t agree with) is relatively as violent a weapon as napalm. The problem, it seems to me, is how to curtail that power without it becoming a bloody revolution.

    • My hippy brother who happens to be at the Rainbow Gathering (probably on his way home) always tells me that I am a serf enslaved to the feudal lords of today’s society. 🙂

    • Charlie,

      The more power a corporation/company has (the more deregulated), the less autonomy its employees have.

      This is utterly false.

      The more deregulated an industry, the more competition enters that industry – providing vastly more opportunities for labor to pick and choose.

      Charlie, in his typical incoherency, confuses “power” with “deregulation”. Power that he fears comes from the very solution he often offers to solve the problem – increase in government interference with an industry by increasing its regulation.

      The increase in regulation raises the barriers to entry – preventing competition and increasing the cartel’s monopoly both in the provisioning of goods and the purchase of labor.

      Sorry, Charlie, you as you often support methods that make worse the problem you claim you wish to solve.

    • Maybe it’s time to change the system by which the corruption flourishes.

      Exactly.

      End the legitimizing of violence on the non-violent, and you would have your world, Charlie.

      • That’s a very convenient way to look at things BF (end the legitimizing of violence on the non-violent …) since everything to date (all our progress) has been brought about via violence. Very convenient.

        And as usual, you couldn’t be more wrong … it’s a nice fantasy (I suppose to some) but it’s still a fantasy.

        • Charlie,

          Your claim is false. Almost everything you have and see is due to actions of non-violent men – called “civilization”.

          You live under the law of the de-legitimization of violence on the non-violent – it is the cornerstone of all moral legal systems – with one exception; government.

          It alone demands retaining that violence on the non-violent exclusively for its self.

          The day you and your ilk no longer legitimizes this, it will end.

          • BF,

            Your claim is false. Almost everything you have and see is due to actions of violent men – so-called “civilization”.

            You live under the law of the legitimization of violence on the non-violent – (i.e., free markets).

            It alone demands retaining that violence on the non-violent exclusively for its self.

            The day you and your ilk no longer legitimizes this, it will end.

            • As usual, Charlie, you believe reversing definitions corrects your poor understanding of the world.

              Up is Down, Freedom is Slavery, Voluntary is Coercion, Earning is Slavery.

              You are a mental mess.

  2. Funny thing about time, Sometimes I have alot, sometimes very little. I do try to read all the comments daily and inject a reply or two when I can. I’m not concerned if I’m called names or accused of being a racist or conspiracy theorist, it just falls inline with the level of intellect of the poster. I won’t waste good debate time on that stuff any longer. As for this country, we need a rest button per se, I think we will see that happen soon, caused by other factors, but non the less, there will be interesting times ahead.

    USW, you go and be a “slave to your wages” it still is a far better life than being “a slave to the State” 🙂

    • charlieopera says:

      Slave to a company; slave to a state. How is one better than the other? 🙂

      • Your right Charlie, being a slave is not desirable in any case. I would choose to make my wages using my skills and knowledge without being led around by a big company. I make better money and I am my own boss! Right know I have that option (and life). Under the State slave owners, I wouldn’t even have that choice or get to keep all of my wages. Now if we can just reduce taxes by 95%, we could starve the 800 lb gorilla (in the room 🙂 )

        • Too bad there isn’t a like button on WordPress — cause I really like what you are saying here GMan!

        • charlieopera says:

          Good point, except the 800 pound gorilla is a scapegoat for those who own the gorilla (the 1%) … so long as they own it, they’ll let you and me pay for the bones they toss us … a government for the rich by the rich … nothing has changed since it was first conceived.

      • Because a slave to a company can leave or rebel or change “slave masters”. A slave to the state cannot, as the state will use force against you. Companies do not have armies and police to make sure you keep working there. States do. We cannot all have equal freedom in the sense that we cannot all just do whatever we wish to do. What I argue for is not the freedom to do whatever you want. I argue for equal freedom from force. Freedom under the law, not freedom in life choices. Do you see the difference?

        • Because a slave to a company can leave or rebel or change “slave masters”.

          Not when you have a family to feed, mortgage to pay, etc. Unless you ignored my post about “concept/theory” vs. reality, you’re choosing to ignore it now.

          A slave to the state cannot, as the state will use force against you. Companies do not have armies and police to make sure you keep working there. States do. We cannot all have equal freedom in the sense that we cannot all just do whatever we wish to do. What I argue for is not the freedom to do whatever you want. I argue for equal freedom from force. Freedom under the law, not freedom in life choices. Do you see the difference?

          I believe it’s called revolution when people opt to resist the force of the state. And if the government is owned by the money behind it (private money), then aren’t isn’t the force being exacted against you one in the same?

          • Baffling Charlie,

            Not when you have a family to feed, mortgage to pay

            So because you believe you have responsibilities, you are a slave.

            • Baffling BF,

              When you have familiar responsibilities (including to yourself), yes, you are a slave to those responsibilities. Unless you’re a deadbeat, yep.

              • Charlie,

                You make my point perfectly.

                You have a violently distorted understanding of the concepts of “slavery” and these distortions echo throughout your entire thinking process.

          • People who have mouths to feed change jobs all the time. Some of them even go out and start businesses, so that they are not a slave to wages at all. Then, they (by your definition) are slaves to their customers. Not everyone does this. In some cases, a superior option is not available, so a person is “stuck” with their job because their other choices are inferior. For most, there are choices that COULD be better, but there is a risk. It is that aversion to risk that keeps most people in a job situation they dislike. I am not saying they should take the risk, just saying that more often than not, there is still a choice available that does not NECESSARILY mean starvation. So, I am not ignoring reality, but if you think that all people are wage slaves except for the rich people at the top, then you are ignoring the reality of what happens every day in this country. People change jobs, start businesses, quit jobs, find jobs, create jobs, and even enjoy their jobs every day. Not all people, but a lot more than just the fabled 1%. And you know what? There is no force being wielded against them for making those choices by any company or corporation.

            There is force wielded by the government against them every day.

            Now, as you say, there are those who own the government. This does not make the force one and the same, it makes the force multiply. Wealth is great power, but without the added power of might, it is not insurmountable. The key is to ensure that might is kept distributed by keeping the use of might illegal. Thus, the government’s use of might is wrong and should be illegal. The more it has, the more those with wealth will attempt to purchase control of that might, because it magnifies their power. You will never overcome wealth with government, because wealth can always purchase government. The only solution is to make sure there is no might worth purchasing. When the wealthy have only their wealth, then they have no real control over anyone, because wealth is useless without trade, and the wealthy cannot control trade without might/authority, which is only available to them through government.

            • People change jobs, start businesses, quit jobs, find jobs, create jobs, and even enjoy their jobs every day. Not all people, but a lot more than just the fabled 1%. And you know what? There is no force being wielded against them for making those choices by any company or corporation.

              Yes, some do. Not as many as you suggest. In fact, the “American Dream” is pretty much stalled as younger couple tend to rent rather than buy so they can move with the job market, but there’s no denying the percent of middle class families joining the ranks of those in poverty. That’s a fact that suggests they’re more apt to keep what they have (jobs) than risk leaving them. And owners of businesses are slaves to the market the same as their workers are slaves to their wages.

              You will never overcome wealth with government, because wealth can always purchase government. The only solution is to make sure there is no might worth purchasing. When the wealthy have only their wealth, then they have no real control over anyone, because wealth is useless without trade, and the wealthy cannot control trade without might/authority, which is only available to them through government.

              Huh?

              • I am sure we would disagree on the reasons for the decline, but the number of people who like their jobs or that change jobs is not relevant. The question is, are those people still slaves? You are a slave to your stomach, you must eat. Do you define true freedom as not having to put out any effort to live? By that definition you only can be free if you enslave others, since someone will have to take care of you. Are you seeking to be free or to be among the slave masters?

                Can I get a better question to answer than “Huh”? I am sure you understand more of that then you let on, unless you simply chose not to really read it.

      • Charlie,

        Because you have poor understanding of slavery, you confuse yourself so easily.

        One, you earn.
        The other, you are forced.

        But for reasons peculiar, you think these two things are the same.

        • Because you choose to wear blinders between the two, you confuse yourself so easily.

          One, you are forced to earn (or starve).
          The other, you are forced as well.

          But for reasons peculiar, you think the two are different.

          • The Universe requires a man must effort to live.

            But to Charlie, that means he is a slave.

            So, to Charlie, everyone and everything is a slave, because the Universe makes it so.

            So, as always, Charlie languishes in the incomprehensible muck of utterly bizarre definitions of terms

            • The Universe requires a man must effort to live.

              But to Charlie, that means he is a slave.

              So, to Charlie, everyone and everything is a slave, because the Universe makes it so.

              So, as always, Charlie languishes in the incomprehensible muck of utterly bizarre definitions of terms

              Actually, I haven’t spoken to the universe, BF. I’m sure you do daily. That’s commendable and about as useful to any conversation as tits on a bull. Let me know what the universe thinks my Bills’ chances are this year in the AFC east …

              • Charlie,

                I do speak to the Universe daily and it answers perfectly.

                You are deaf to this because you have long ago thrown away “reason”.

                Your team has about the same chance this year as last year.

  3. USW;

    I can tell you that I have grown a great deal since finding and participating here at SUFA, and I am a better person as a result. My core belief’s have not changed a great deal, but my mind has evolved enomously. I have a much better understanding of how the ‘system’ works, why individuals believe what they believe, and how it has all come about.

    I have learned a great deal, improved my abilities to discuss various subjects and have matured politically.

    I don’t want to see SUFA stop.

    Even though I have not had the time to dedicate to the sight, I still do read it almost every day. I just have to choose when I participate. Unfortunately work gets in the way of a lot of things, but then it is better than unemployment.

    You once stated ground rules some time back, maybe those ground rules can be refreshed. From a personal perspective I don’t react to the negative comments, and will usually respond with thoughtfull questions (At least what I think are thoughtful questions) and if I don’t get thoughtful response I just simply ignore that person going forward.

    Dad always said ignore someone long enough and they will go away.

    I enjoy posting articles and participating so my vote is to continue.

    CM

  4. Dearest US Weapon,

    I guess there comes a point where most of the CORE subject matter has been thoroughly discussed, analyzed and solutions proposed. Anymore discussion after that just seems like whining or “Verbal Release Therapy” (aka *itching).

    Of course, anything “new” in the News deserves the discussion, to be analyzed and solutions proposed.

    What I can say about SUFA is this…I found you and all of these wonderful people here during a time when I was learning to care about my future and the future of my children (what can I say, I’ve always been a late bloomer). It was like all of the sudden, I woke up and magically, this site was there to help me. I have learned so much from most people here, not so much from others. I do know that I did love the safe discourse that I experienced here — but along the way, things started changing.

    I do know this…over the next few months, people are really going to need a place for Verbal Release Therapy — just goes with the nature of these times. Maybe SUFA can become the Glory that it once was!!!! 🙂

    Whenever I get an email notification that SUFA has a new article, I always bop over here to look at it. I remember that there was a time when I didn’t even wait for email notificaton — I had the site loaded constantly.

    Also, I understand the issue with time; as employees, it seems that every year, we have to do more with less people…it becomes draining. During my peak cycle weeks at work, I’m putting in like 65 hours a week…exhausting.

    Well, with all of this said, US Weapon…I think you’ve done a knock-up job of this site and I am so very happy to have had the wonderful opportunity to rub shoulders the great thinkers that I’ve found here…

    May love and laughter light your days,
    and warm your heart and home.
    May good and faithful friends be yours,
    wherever you may roam.
    May peace and plenty bless your world
    with joy that long endures.
    May all life’s passing seasons
    bring the best to you and yours!

    With the greatest of regards,

    Richmond Spitire (aka Karyn)

  5. I agree with Spitfire. There comes a time when everything has been pretty well hashed over. At the same time, just when you think you’ve heard or seen it all from this government, they throw something new at us. SUFA has been a godsend for me. I’ve learned more here than I ever learned in high school or college. USW, I’ll be forever thankful to you for creating this site. And thanks to everyone here for all your thoughts, opinions, and encouragement. I’ve made a couple serious life changes as a direct result of conversations right here. ie: homeschooling and closing the doors to my business. Both have been excellant choices for me and my family.

    Spitfire also has it right that if SUFA is not around in the next several months, I think I may just strangle someone before this election.

    As for the future, I sure hope SUFA can continue. I know that’s easy for me to say, I’ve never taken the time to pen an article, I’m sure it takes hours. If I could make a suggestion, which requires more time I’m sure, open the doors back up. I have been commenting here since late 09, and I think I’m still the newest one around. Take that back..PlainlySpoken came in after me. But we can always use fresh ideas.

    Look out GMan and Black Flag! If SUFA goes down, we’re going to pile in at your blogs. I love hanging out with all you guys. Even you, Charlie!

    • charlieopera says:

      Anita, my love. I’m too chicken to open my blog to comments … 🙂 For one thing, I’d never get a thing done trying to respond. It is much easier to haunt a site than run one.

      Seriously, it takes a very long time to pen articles (as you said). It isn’t easy. And although the rhetoric gets loud and bombastic at times (whether we feel we’re responding or not), it is the passion of the topic(s) that fuels the fire. Sometimes a good thing, sometimes not so good … but I suspect whatever our differences, we’re all decent enough people.

      Go Bills!

  6. Judy Sabatini says:

    USW

    I may not always participate on here, but I do come here quite a lot & read the articles & comments, & I too, have learned a great deal from others on here. There are times I agree, & disagree with some of the comments, but, I have come to learn, not to argue or belittle anyone on here or call anyone names, for, I have the utmost respect for everybody. I will miss SUFA if you decide to shut it down, but, that is your decision & your decision alone on what to do. You have written some great articles on here, as well as others too & I have enjoyed them very much. I hope you won’t, but will understand if you do.

    You & your wife take care, I wish nothing but the best for you & everybody here.

    Judy

  7. 😉

  8. Coming to SUFA throughout the day has become a part of what I do each day and I have to say I will miss it alot if you shut it down. But it is your decision and I want you to do what is best for you.

    But don’t think you haven’t achieved a lot with SUFA-People have been changed-some in small ways-some a great deal-but mainly SUFA has forced people to really think about what they believe and to have a little better understanding of why others disagree with us. These are pretty big achievements.

    So whatever your decision on the future of SUFA-I just want to say Thank you for the last few years.

  9. Charlie,
    You do not believe men should act voluntarily.
    You do not believe in voluntary trade.

    Voluntary trade, if you allow it to exist at all, must mean “Yes”.
    No matter the deal, both sides must say “yes” or it is will not be allowed by you.

    Voluntary trade, sir, requires the power to say “no”.

    You deny this “no” to only one side on such a trade – you accept that a poor man can say “no” to a rich man in supplying his labor, but you deny a rich man can say “no” to a poor man who is demanding too much money for such labor.

    • Oh, give it up already, BF.

      Or try and understand how the rich man became so … let the tumbers of your mind spin and see what they come up with.

      Or you can always phone the universe …

      • Charlie,

        It is utterly irrelevant.

        The principle is “Right of Action”.

        You demand the poor man has the right to say “no”, but you deny that same right to a rich man.

        This is your fundamental position and warps your entire perspective, arguments and understanding.

        • Like I said earlier (something that cannot penetrate your thick dome) … the violence by which this country became so wealthy is fine and dandy … now that you have something to protect, it’s evi.

          A HUGE crock of shit … but one you can’t let go of for obvious reasons (your universe falls apart).

          • Jon Smith says:

            You seem to point to the violent past of the US and of other nations whenever someone points out the violence of socialism. Is that some way of justifying violence in your mind? Are you saying that it is ok to be violent to the rich because everyone does it? That seems sorta horrifying.

  10. USW,
    A site like this is very hard to manage. I would know, I let my own fall by the wayside long ago. I love the people and the discussions here, even tho I find I operate in short bursts. I will be on here daily and even write articles for a few weeks, then let it slide for a month or two, then back at it. I will miss it terribly if it falls, but I would not dare pressure you or your family to continue to put the work in if you find you need to stop.

    I have learned a lot here, met some amazing people, had my ideas challenged many times, and have changed my perspective on a lot of stuff. I would like to see that continue in some capacity. I vote keep the site up, but, as I said, this is your site, not a democracy.
    Cheers, and thank you for creating SUFA and for what it has been up to now. If you choose to continue it, I thank you for that as well.
    – Jon

  11. A Puritan Descendant says:
  12. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    USW – This website has made at least 100 people less ignorant than they were before, myself included. I personally count that as a vast success, although to you it may seem painfully frustrating. We all have real lives, and although politics can have a fairly big effect on our lives, almost none of us can be truly dedicated to it because of all of the other, far more important, real life things we have to deal with. No matter who becomes President or what our silly political parties try to do to us, most of us will soldier on with life regardless.

    As far as the future of the site goes, my personal opinion is let it live and continue for at least a while yet and see what happens. Because you can’t always be around to run things and write articles, maybe we have a bit more freedom than you intended, but since this site is about freedom, is that really a bad thing?

  13. USW and Fellow SUFAers,

    Like so many have said above, I’ve learned a lot and have changed my views on many things since first finding SUFA. I’ve become a real skeptic (which I sometimes hate being) and I’ve learned it’s all about the definition. Can’t tell you how many times when having a discussion with someone, I now start out with, “and what is your definition of ______?”. Interesting how the conversation unfolds after that.

    I would hate for it to end as it’s been a place for me to come and get clear on things, and man, in the course of the next few months (and years), I’m going to need help getting clear!!! I value enormously the intellect and patience of those on this site that take the time to explain their views and experiences.

    Thanks for all you’ve done, USW, to get this site going and keep it going this long. Certainly I understand the time restraints, and while I have no solution or ideas at the moment, I do hope to continue to have SUFA be here as a resource and touchbase with many I consider friends.

  14. Your team has about the same chance this year as last year.

    The perfect black and white answer … you’re consistent. I’ll give you that.

    But you’re now entering foghorn alert … beware …

    • Charlielogic? If you don’t have anything nice to say, say it loud?

    • “In our current system, our liberty becomes more and more squeezed by economics. While what was the middle and certainly the bottom of the economic ladder sacrifice jobs, wages, etc., the top of the ladder suffers not at all with the threat that they can pick up and leave at any time, etc. Too big to fail, etc.”

      No Charlie, at least not the way our “system” was intended to work. Too big to fail was government intervention and a mistake just like Hoover/FDR or Bush/Obama. It’s only when you let the government make the choices for you that freedom is compromised.

      Each year, 24/7 Wall St. identifies 10 important American brands that we predict are going to disappear within a year. This year’s list reflects the brutally competitive nature of certain industries and the reason why companies cannot afford to fall behind in efficiency, innovation or financing.

      American Airlines will disappear in 2013 because of its inefficiency. It was the premier carrier in the United States for almost 30 years — even surviving through periods during which most other carriers went bankrupt. However, it lost its critical advantage of scale when Northwest merged with Delta (NYSE: DAL) and Continental merged with United (NYSE: UAL). Within two years, American became a medium sized carrier.

      Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2012/06/21/ten-brands-that-will-disappear-in-2013/#ixzz209GG1jIu

      • No Charlie, at least not the way our “system” was intended to work. Too big to fail was government intervention and a mistake just like Hoover/FDR or Bush/Obama. It’s only when you let the government make the choices for you that freedom is compromised.

        See my point, LOI … over and over …

        who owns the gov’t? Big corporations (1%) …. so they give themselves the money back and you blame some nebulous entity called the “government”?

        bada-boom, bada-bing …

        • General Motors recorded its best monthly sales numbers since September 2008 last month, largely due to government intervention.

          While The New York Daily News reports that General Motors’ sales are up 16 percent from this time last year, the National Legal and Policy Center pointed out that government purchases of GM automobiles rose 79 percent in June. The Detroit Free Press reports that retail sales of GM vehicles rose less than eight percent, while sales to fleet customers rose 36 percent.

          The auto industry will be a campaign issue in the run up to November, and President Barack Obama spoke in Ohio on Friday, touting the success of a local automaker: “What happened in Toledo can happen in cities like Cleveland, it can happen in Pittsburgh, it can happen in other industries,” Obama said. “That’s why I’m running for another term as president — because I want to make sure that it does.”

          Making sure the government stays involved in the operations of GM could remain a priority in this election year.

          As Daily Finance pointed out earlier this year, the government still owns a 32 percent stake in GM, and cashing out now would cost the Department of the Treasury billions of dollars.

          Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/07/gm-reports-increased-sales-because-of-government-intervention/#ixzz209MYgVEN

  15. USW,

    I would like to keep this going. I would not consider the time I have spent here or writing and researching wasted if it shuts down, but would feel it was giving up instead of fighting for a worthy cause. The cause is all of us that read or post at SUFA, past, present and future. I have been posting on FaceBook some, a group Spitfire invited me to join. It’s fun and informative, but I think this site allows better thoughts and consideration. Too much of the FaceBook just becomes noise.

    • Kristian says:

      LOI,
      I know the group you’re talking about on facebook. It could be really good but there is too much hopping around on subjects. I like the way that it’s done here. US, I know that the time constraints are difficult and you can’t always be here. I come to this site every day if for no other reason than to see what nonsense Charlie has come up with lately. He does come up with some doozies. I have learned so much here from you and the Colonel and Flag. I know that when I have a question I can ask it and I’m going to get an answer that makes sense, not just someone telling me what they think I want to hear. Thank you for the time and the effort that you have put into this. It will be sad if you decide to shut it down but your family needs to come first.

      • Charlie has come up with lately

        You’ll make me famous yet, Kristian.

      • He does come up with some doozies

        Do any of these doozies include pointing to founding fathers who were slave owners and/or that it took almost 200 years before “some” minorities were given a voting rights act … or that they (founding fathers) were rich white men speaking for rich white men … or that the land they were forming a “government” on was stolen property … and that all that has been accumulated since on this same stolen property belongs (according to a few basic concepts of capitalism — private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit, etc.) rightfully (because it was taken “violently”) to those who were here first?

        I could go on but I won’t.

        Smile, wingies … it’s all in good fun.

        • Ahhhh Charlie…..you must wear your face mask…you are sniffing Plutonian laced dust again…..you do keep harping on things of the past…slavery, 200 years……etc…….it took Europe over 2.000 years to do what we did in less than 200…….same for other civs……but you are amazingly redundant…..but I LUV YA MAN…….One thing that you will do…is admit when you are wrong when faced with facts…..and not theory.

          But I do find your “doozies” entertaining. 🙂

          • I knew you would, Colonel! I was just breaking them (as usual) … getting the discussion off the apology fest and back to verbal gunfire.

            A small business (ex marine) opened a deli in my neighborhood and I’m doing the right thing, Colonel … eating everything he sells … in abundance … good guy.

      • Kristain, feel about the same on that FB crowd. Seems to me several of them want attention, not discussion, which is OK, just not my thing.

        • Kristian says:

          Ok, so it isn’t just me. Whew, thought I was the only one…LOL! I do love coming to this site. I may not always post but I earn something everytime I open this page in my browser. Not just from US but from you and Flag and Peter and Buck and Mathius. You guys also make me laugh. I watch you guys go back and forth and I learn. So, thanks!

  16. USWeapon,
    As much as all of you drive me nuts, I’d miss you if SUFA were gone. When I don’t get out here for a few days, I start going into SUFA-withdrawals!

    I don’t think there’s a need for anyone to write articles on a regular basis. In the last 3+ years, we’ve covered most topics (several times). Now it’s mostly current events. If someone wants to write an article that’s fine, but it’s not needed.

    LOI does a pretty good job creating new blog posts with an opening thought or two.

    And actually, I don’t think the “civility” has changed all that much. There were some heated exchanges 3 years ago, as there are now. It seems to go up and down – you can see tension building over a few comments, it reaches a peak, and then subsides for a while. It’s still much better than any other political blog I’ve seen (and most family get togethers!).

    I understand your concern about having your name on something you don’t monitor on a regular basis. If you choose to shut SUFA down, we’d probably migrate to one of the blogs run by other SUFAer’s. After all, someone has to be in charge, otherwise it would be anarchy, and we can’t have that!! 🙂

    • Todd, do you feel OK? You said something nice about me…Might want to move that CAT scan up a few months….Glad to have your approval. I’ve tried to lay back on some things, mainly because this is not my site & I don’t want to act like it is or I am taking over…

      • LOI,
        I already had the CAT scan. It didn’t find anything… (that’s a little ‘gift’ for you!! 🙂 )

        Actually, it wasn’t really something nice about you, but a cheap shot at USWeapon! 😉

        By the way, your music selection if good, but your interpretation is off!!

        Everybody’s got a hungry heart
        Everybody’s got a hungry heart
        Lay down your money and you play your part
        Everybody’s got a hungry heart…

  17. While we wait for the Colonel and those NYers, why not start a baby pool for Mathius Jr ette.

    I say Matt has been missing because he has a new baby born on July 4th!

    • Anita, if you are waiting on me…..look ahead. SEE? There I am…..leading the pack. I had already written USW and we do know what the other thinks without saying it…..but for everyone else…I have always enjoyed it on here and even though there is rhetoric at times, I have learned things. I mean, we all know, that Colonel’s are never wrong…..but there are times that I might come up a little short on being right.

      If you are waiting on the Buck Meister…….well…..he IS in New joisey….and he is a barrister…..and…..well…errr……ummmm…………

    • Mathius™ says:

      You lost your bet, missy.

      She was born on June 30 at a hearty 8lb 6oz and 21 inches long.

      Everyone’s healthy and happy, but that’s the root cause of my absence. Hope you haven’t missed me too much!

      • Buck the Wala says:

        I was seriously considering placing that exact bet after reading Anita’s original post. Wonder if she would have accepted!?

        • Way to go Matt & Emilius! 8lbs? OMG! My _______ hurts! 🙂

          Not a chance Buck. You probably knew already by the time I posted!

  18. USW,

    I have never had more pokes to get me thinking on a topic than I have had from the articles and comments here at SUFA. I know there probably isn’t a side I have argued against, as well as supported, at times. The “right” thinking comes based on a topic or ideal being discussed. I know I can agree with Charlie, Todd, Buck, or Mathius at times as easily I can with Jon, JAC, Commonman, etc., at others.

    It has always been refreshing, and only a bit redundant with circular debates over time worn subjects…..but none the less the debate happens. I don’t see that a lot of other places.

    The last seven months have been a personal and family hard time in my home, with my recent medical issues heaping more upon us here in Spokenville. It has reduced my attention span and energy levels and it will not abate anytime soon. But, that said I still enjoy stopping in when I can to “catch-up” on what is happening. If SUFA shuts down, well……I really don’t know what I will do – I dount I can find a blog as good out there for the people and the debate.

    As the choice is yours, you’ll make the best decision for your needs. Good luck and God Bless (if I may be so bold 🙂 ).

    PS: i agree with Todd here:

    And actually, I don’t think the “civility” has changed all that much. There were some heated exchanges 3 years ago, as there are now. It seems to go up and down – you can see tension building over a few comments, it reaches a peak, and then subsides for a while. It’s still much better than any other political blog I’ve seen (and most family get togethers!).

    • OK Charlie, gave it a look. Note it’s opinion, not news, but makes some good points. My main issue that it and you seem to ignore, violence….
      The evidence seemed to indicate Martain was the agressor. This does not make Zimmerman innocent but is the key issue. If Martin decked him with one sucker-punch and was bashing his head into the concrete, it makes the case for self-defense. If Zimmerman provoked Martain by stalking, inciting, etc. there may be crimes he is guilty of, but does not change who initated the violence… Point of law, inciting a riot is not an excuse or justification for a riot. Same for violence, if Zimmerman is shown to have provoked Martin, it does not alter Martins guilt at all, just means Zimmerman is guilty of a different crime.

      • LOI, i think we just disagree on this one. My issue is with the law (way too vague to protect life). There’s already a self defense law in place … this thing is an invitation to disaster (and has proven so in several cases already, but none of them received the coverage the Martin case did and even that was well after the fact, then it went viral).

        By the way, I don’t think he’s guilty of 2nd degree (that is grandstanding by the prosecutor) … I’m fairly certain (from what we know) he’s guilty of manslaughter or reckless endangerment. Bottom line, if he doesn’t serve time for something, his life won’t be worth spit. He’s better off taking a few years in protective custody (which is what he’ll get) and head to another country once he’s released.

        • and has proven so in several cases already, but none of them received the coverage the Martin case did and even that was well after the fact, then it went viral).

          Charlie, this is utter hogwash. First, the law is designed to protect the attacked. An attack has to occur, first, before deadly use of force is used. This is, of course, does not include your home, where, in Pa, we can just blow an intruder head off just for being dumb enough to break in. These laws protect law abiding citizens. The sad part is that when someone does protect themselves under these laws, the Liberal media will not report that a Conservative gun owner used his/her gun for self defense. Zimmerman will be aquitted, and rightfully so. He should then syue the pants off anyone who slandered him.

          What is really sad is that we have to have laws to defend ourselves to begin with, it is a natural right that should never be denied or questioned.

          Hope your day is is good old chum 🙂

          • charlieopera says:

            An attack has to occur, first, before deadly use of force is used.

            And the only one left to tell “their” side of the story (whether they were “attacked” or not) is the person with the gun. Think about it, Gman. It’s friggin’ INSANE.

            And has been proved over and again, the law has been used to defend murders (because that’s what they were) that had little or nothing to do with being “attacked” …

            Hopefully, Zimmerman will be convicted of what he was guilty of (manslaughter). He had no business using his paranoid racism to pursue that kid and then shoot him for what appears to be no other reason than he couldn’t fight (if there was a reason at all).

            Good days all around, chum …:)

            • Charlie, You are simply repeating the same liberal BS as the leberal hacks on tv and the radio. Just like them, you offer no proof, because non exists. You fell hook, line and sinker with the liberal lame stream media portrayal of Zimmerman, all of which has been proven a liberal fabrication. Yet you can’t see the truth through your Communist glasses. I actually feel sorry for you 🙄

              Peace Brother! 🙂

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Hey GMan, quick question for you then — what do you make of Zimmerman’s lies at the bail hearing? The finding that he did intend to flee the country?

                I’m not going to rehash all the past debates on Stand Your Ground. Just curious what you make of Zimmerman’s actions post incident.

              • Buck, Hope today finds you and your family healthy and happy 🙂 I went back and read the reports on his hearing. The finding that he did intend to flee the country?

                That was not a finding, but a assumption made by the judge. It is completely unprovable. Now, I think he is reacting to being railroaded by the very system that is supposed to protect him from false prosecution. He has spent time in jail for “legally” defending himself from an attacker. He has had many death threats and he’s not exactly liked by the black people of this nation, because they have fell for the same lies that Charlie fell for. So, with that said, he is trying to protect his interests the best he can,

              • Buck, Where did you get that he intended to flee the country? I’ve read only that the JUDGE said he intended to flee, not Zimmerman himself.

              • oops. Sorry G.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Yes, the Judge found that, based upon the evidence, he intended to flee the country. He (and his wife) blatantly lied at the bail hearing.

                Once again, you keep falling for the line that he was merely defending himself. And what of Martin? Couldn’t it also be said that Martin was defending himself (pursuant to the very Stand Your Ground law you support and defend) against Zimmerman? To add this is not a case of false prosecution — Zimmerman shot and killed Martin and claimed self defense. Given the evidence this is not an open and shut case of self defense. So, let him claim and prove self defense in a court of law.

                Things are going well in my neck of the woods — a bit too busy, but I guess that’s a good problem to have. Plus I’m about ready to run out for some lunch! Best time of the workday!

              • Enjoy your lunch Buck! I’m going to finish expanding my chicken coop! 🙂

              • I’ve wondered about the money Zimmerman got from the fund-did he have possession of the money or was it just promised money?

              • Buck the Wala says:

                He had access to the money as far as I know. But regardless of any terms to that access, he had a duty to report the fund as part of the hearing.

              • Yes, he did. My problem comes in when people claim that him doing this and having a passport PROVES he was going to flee. I know it is a small point but if I was Zimmerman-I wouldn’t flee-running from the government wouldn’t enter my mind-but I sure as hell would be figuring out how and where I was gonna go if I was lucky enough not to go to jail.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Absent a statement from the man himself, you can never PROVE intent — but based on the preponderance of the evidence, the Court made a determination of his intent. I’m pretty satisfied with that conclusion.

              • I don’t blame the court for taking steps to stop the possibility-I just have a problem with the court being so forceful in their accusation of an assumption, mainly because so much of this case is being tried in the court of public opinion.

                And I go back to -did Zimmerman have access to the money-if he did not-he couldn’t use it to flee

              • Buck the Wala says:

                VH, do you similarly have a problem with a court making a finding that someone had committed a crime where there was no confession or video proof?

              • Come on Buck-I’m not following this case that closely at the moment-but that Judge threw a hissy fit.

                I look at this case and I see no way anyone is going to prove what happened. I look at Zimmerman and I know he is guilty of something but I’m not at all sure he did anything legally wrong. But the emotional level is high and the Judge shouldn’t be adding to it.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Put yourself in the Judge’s shoes — you have a defendant in front of you for a bail hearing; the defendent and his wife swore under oath as to their assets; they blatantly lied (both about money and passports). Frankly I’m surprised the Judge even granted bail after this came to light!

              • I’m not objecting to the what-only to the how. The Judges personal anger is irrelevant IMHO. And I too was surprised that he granted him bail, especially after his hissy fit.

  19. @ USW……..HUAH!

  20. So to go forward:

    For the first time, federal officials also revealed that Terry and an elite squad of federal agents initially fired bean bags — not bullets — at a heavily armed drug cartel crew in the mountains south of Tucson in December 2010. During the exchange, Terry was shot and killed.

    Combine bean bags with the new……see a gun and run/hide program announced by homeland security…..more people killed on the border in three years than killed in Vietnam in 15 years…but I am glad to announce that Ms. Napolitano says that the border is safer now than it has ever been……..perhaps in Texas because we ignore homeland security….but not Arizona or California.

    If I were a border agent and told to fire bean bags and run and hide at the sight of a gun……….I would quit. But that is the new Progressive way…run and hide.

  21. Great white shark trails kayaker in Cape Cod…….If anyone saw that video……….wow.

  22. USW, sorry about being so late to the discussion. Thank you for your efforts over the last few years. It has been very informative. I would hope that you find it within you to keep the site open through the next election as we could all use some critical analysis of the candidates for offices high and low. I know some here have given up on the Federal government . It is quite frustrating to watch them flounder about. I can imagine that many had the same feelings in 1860. Many in this country have awaken to need for change. A large number of them I think are searching for answers and have no where to turn to. That is one of the reasons I started to follow this site. Unlike most others sites, civil and intelligent discourse was a common occurrence. Whatever you decide, many here will take the ideas and discussions elsewhere and hopefully enlighten others. I know contribute to running debates now on our local newspaper’s site. Hopefully it does some good.

    To the Colonel. I have greatly appreciated your descriptions of the events along the border. It is enlightening to get the real low down on what is happening. If nothing else, it proves even more how biased the MSM is.

    • Yes, T Ray,,,,,,it is amazing that the Feds wish to fire bean bags…..against an armed cartel that is better armed than the Feds……so instead of arming the Feds……when you see a gun, run and hide. Unbelievable. Texas has its own troops on the border and we have armed the ranchers with guns, ammo, radios, and sophisticated intrusion equipment. We have told the ranchers to shoot first and ask question later. No one is lost miles from the nearest town, crossing a river that is hundreds of feet wide, climbing over or under or through a barbed wire fence, crossing private property at 2 am…….just shoot. When the word gets around, and it has, they will stop.

      We are just doing it quietly and without fanfare and we do not talk to the MSM. I was at a meeting not long ago when a reporter from the New York Times was complaining that no one would talk to him. He tried to go to some ranchers to do an investigation on what they were doing and could not get past gates and signs that said….NO TRESPASSING. He actually said that he did not understand why he could not go up to a ranchers home like in New York where he can just knock on doors. He does not understand the concept of PRIVATE PROPERTY. This same reporter went to a town meeting in Del Rio, Texas to try to talk to residents there….and the only comment he got was……go away, we can do it ourselves. This is the independent spirit and this is what we do. The Federal Government has no idea how to protect its borders. Washington has no idea what is going on in the frontier.

      We just want to be left alone, T Ray…..nothing more.

      I will tell you one other thing…..all this hoopla over the picture ID and the court cases that is currently in the news……it does not matter what the federal court says….we are going to pay attention to it like we do Obamacare…..we will still do it our way.

      • Colonel, I grew up in rural IL amongst German, Norwegian, Danish, etc. immigrant farmers. In farm country there was a strong do it yourself and don’t complain mentality. I strongly favor that stoic approach myself. Due to work I ended up in nanny state CA but at least I live away from the cities in a more sane part of the state. I would not live in SoCal or the Bay area.

        In the aftermath of Katrina, when TV cameras got down to the River Walk area, they showed hundreds of people sitting in the street and in the convention center. Toilets were a mess, the street was a messy and everyone was demanding to know were the govmnt was. I saw no bonfires to boil water, no stills, no work crews. Until that point I felt sorry for the victims, but after that, I had little sympathy.

        Most of my family still live in the upper Midwest. I have long sworn that they were struck by a tornado or other disaster, I would pack up my truck with camping gear and tools and head back there to begin the rebuild. I figure about 1 week for clean up and another to prepare the foundation. By the third week a frame would be up and a roof on by the fourth. At which point, we would strike the tents and move in. Winters are cruel in the upper Midwest. Shelter is a necessity. During such disasters government should just plain get out of the way.

        I applaud you and your fellow Texans for your independence.

  23. Texas Governor Rick Perry said Monday that Texas will not implement key portions of President Obama’s healthcare legislation, despite the Supreme Court’s recent ruling upholding the constitutionality of the law. Perry sent a letter Monday morning to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, saying he has “no intention” of either implementing a state health insurance exchange or expanding Medicaid, two provisions that are incorporated into the federal law.

    “If anyone had any doubt, we wanted to put it clearly to bed that Texas wasn’t going to be a part of expanding socializing of our medicine,” he said in an exclusive interview with Fox News. “We’re not going to participate in any exchanges, we’re not going to expand Medicaid – we’re just not going to be a part of, again, socializing healthcare in the state of Texas.”

    “Medicaid is a failed a program. To expand this program is not unlike adding a thousand people to the Titanic. You’re going to further drive this country into debt,” Perry said. “You don’t expand a program that is not working already.””If the federal government is serious about working with the states and finding solutions to the healthcare needs, what they would do is block grant those dollars back to the states,” he said. “I can assure you that Texas and other states would find more effective, efficient ways to deliver healthcare to their citizens and do it in a way that preserves those individuals freedom.””The idea that this federal government, which doesn’t like Texas to begin with – to pick and choose and come up with some data that says somehow Texas has the worst healthcare system in the world is just fake and false on its face,” he said. “Every Texan has healthcare in this state, from the standpoint of being able to have access to healthcare – every Texas has that. How we pay for it, and how we deliver it, should be our decision – not some bureaucrat in Washington D.C. that may have never been to Texas a day in their life.”Perry said the problem with the Medicaid exchanges is that states won’t have the ability to tailor coverage to fit their specific needs.

    “If the private insurance sector wants to set up these types of ability to trade across lines and what have you – I think they ought to have the ability to do that,” he said. “But not this one-size-fits-all, federally-mandated, Washington-centric concept that the Obama administration, through Obamacare, is trying to force upon us.””I’m still stunned that there weren’t enough courageous men and women in the United States Congress to stand up and say, this is bad public policy,” he said. “It is going to bankrupt many states, including the state of Texas, if this thing gets put into place the way that they envisioned it to begin with. That’s not courage, in my opinion.”

    D13’s perspective:

    Obviously, I support the position from Rick Perry as most Texans do,however, I did not stop there. I am intrigued at the choice of words that the MSM and the Progressive left like to yell about. AND that is that 1 in 4 Texans do not have health insurance. Interesting in what WAS NOT said when citing these statistics……….1 in 4 may not have an insurance plan provided by an employer……….but all Texans have access to heath services. The homeless can walk right in off the street and get treated. No one is denied health care services……the secret is in what is defined as health care. You got a headache? Take care of it yourself. You have a common cold…..rest and take fluids and get over it. You run a high fever? You will be treated and tested. You want a flu shot? Come and get it….it is free. You have a heart attack? Go to the hospital and get treated. You have cancer? Go to the hospital and get treated. Got a hang nail? Take care of it yourself. Want birth control? Go to the public health and get free birth control and condoms.

    To the Federal Government…….leave us alone. We do not want you or your money. We do just fine. We can take care of our own and we can take care of our own border. Just leave us alone.

    • Of course I agree with Perry. But even with his stance, what’s to say that the feds can just reject what he says and impose the penalty on the people anyway? Would Texas go to bat for the little guy or hang him out to dry? And if the feds can go after the little guy then Perry is wasting his breath. This goes for all the states that are fighting the law, my state included.

      • There is nothing that anyone can do against the IRS…..it is the 800 pound gorilla. What Perry is not going yo do is expand the current Federal programs. Here is an important question………and no one seems to want to pursue this……..identify health insurance. My question……if you can get health benefits from a county hospital and no one is turned away…..is this not health insurance?

        However, it takes a lead….and Texas is not the only state doing this. We are simply not going to expand the current Federal Programs. The IRS is going to impose the increased tax penalty anyway. So, on your IRS form you simply check the box that….yes, I have health insurance. If they audit you….simply state that the county provides my health coverage.

        • Colonel,

          identify health insurance

          Health insurance is a form of risk management used to hedge against the risk of incurring costs or losses if an insured person is injured or falls ill. It is the equitable transfer of the risk of a loss, from one entity to another, in exchange for payment.

          My question……if you can get health benefits from a county hospital and no one is turned away…..is this not health insurance?

          No, that’s socialize medicine. Are you in-favor of SOCIALISM?

          simply state that the county provides my health coverage.

          Once again, that’s not health insurance. That’s socialize medicine.

          I find it amazing that you and Perry rail against ObamaCare, saying it is “socializing healthcare in the state of Texas,” and then you explain that anyone can get health care in Texas – because it’s already socialized…

          • Yes, I know that it is a form of socialized medicine. Texas has taken it upon themselves to provide health coverage with in our budget….it is a budgeted item. And, for the record, I am against socialized medicine although as a Veteran, the VA is socialized medicine and it does count as me being having health coverage. I think that the term health insurance is a misnomer. I do not associate health insurance the same as car insurance although your argument that it is risk oriented is fair. I do not like the fact that car insurance is required nor do I like the fact thath health insurance is required.

            So, if Texas decides to opt out, which it will, of Obamacare and the Feds cannot force it….then that makes it a personal issue with the Feds by the individual. Texas is going to form its own coop for low cost health coverage anyway…without Federal dollars because we are big enough to do that economically…but it will still be within a budget and it will be without raising taxes, imposing an income tax nor penalty.

            So, when I file my taxes, I will list VA Insurance as my provider and I will not be subject to tax. My sig other will list her health provider.

            Interesting thought…..car insurance is a requirement…so far, health insurance will be a requirement……as a private pilot….I wonder why I am not mandated to obtain insurance?

  24. Teen Punished for Stopping Bullies From Harassing a Special Needs Girl. A Florida high school student made a stand against bullying and is now in the hot seat with school officials. For months, 18-year-old Stormy Rich witnessed a girl with special needs being bullied by her peers on the way to school. “They would be mean to her, tell her she couldn’t sit on certain spots on the bus…just because she doesn’t understand doesn’t mean that should be happening to her,” Rich told WOFL-TV.

    Rich says she reported the incidents to the bus driver and school officials. When they didn’t take action, she stepped in and confronted the bullies; but instead of being praised for her efforts, Rich ended up being labeled as a bully, and her bus-riding privileges were revoked.

    “My daughter was punished incorrectly. Stormy was standing up for a child with emotionally challenged disabilities that should not have been bullied. The district’s policy clearly states that anybody in good faith files a report on bullying will not face any repercussions and she is.”

    So, the underlying theme here…..if you stop bullying………you become the bully. Sigh……………..

  25. PeterB in Indianapolis says:

    For those of you interested in the whole “global warming” thing, here are a few updates:

    Even though June was very hot in PARTS of the US, globally it wasn’t all that hot, with the “average global temperature” coming in at +0.34 or only about 1/3rd of a degree C above “normal”.

    Northern Hemisphere sea ice is 1.69 million square kilometers below normal.

    Southern Hemisphere sea ice is 0.51 million square kilometers above normal (SH sea ice has been above normal all year).

    Some of you may remember that back in February, Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice was just about “normal”. So… where did all the NH sea ice go? Is it melting due to global warming??? Is it about to disappear??? No. What happened this past Winter was that the polar circulation (current) and polar weather patterns were such that a LOT of sea ice got flushed out of the Arctic Ocean and into the Bearing Sea near Alaska. Those of you who watch Deadliest Catch are now seeing what January and February were like for those guys. Wave after wave of ice floes being pushed rapidly south out of the Arctic Ocean an into the Bearing Sea, nearly covering 100% of the crab fishing grounds for most of the Opelio crab season.

    This weather/current condition also led to far LESS ice than normal near northern Russia, where parts of the Arctic Ocean were nearly ice free all winter.

    Now, the Bearing Sea, being as far south as it is, does not support ice-pack beyond late March/early April. Ice in the Bearing Sea melts rapidly from that point and does not come back until the following winter. So, basically, due to a somewhat unusual weather/current pattern, a lot of ice moved OUT of the Arctic Ocean during winter and inundated the Bearing Sea, where it has subsequently melted. As a result, we currently have less ice than we had on this date in 2007 (the year with the lowest minimum ice extent in recent times). However, now that the ice near Alaska has finished its rapid melt-off, the RATE of arctic ice melt has slowed dramatically, and although I think we might get close to the 2007 minimum for NH Sea Ice, I don’t think we will quite get that low, and we certainly won’t get the “ice-free” Arctic that some “scientists” were predicting would happen by 2012 (there were several predictions of this back in 2007).

    NH Sea Ice minimum usually coincides with the Fall Equinox (around September 22nd or so) so we shall see what happens!

    • Deadliest Catch fan here. They sure did have a rough season. Scary! The heat wave that just passed..I can’t remember a hotter stretch since ’88. I know just how damn hot it was that year because I was pregnant til late August that year! 🙂

      • Ha! 1983 summer was also hot and I remember for the same reason – PG until August in a house with only a bedroom air conditioner! LIVED in that room all summer. Said I’d never have another summer baby again and I didn’t. Others were winter babies – much, much more comfortable! Timing is everything.

        • My mom went thru that before we got AC in the house I grew up in. No AC units at all, but a full basement. We stayed down there and ran a humidifier a lot. She only did the one summer baby too, but it was her last. I wasnt a lot better, October baby puts her pregnant thru the summer, but not the really bad final couple months.

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        My kids were both born in March. My wife always said, “Conceive when it’s hot, be as big as a house when it’s NOT!” 🙂

    • Isn’t it the AGW’s theory that increased CO2 is the cause??? Always makes me wonder, how does a gas cause heat? And when that fails to make sense, what does cause heat?

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2170985/The-suns-solar-flares-getting-stronger–latest-hot-spot-size-15-Earths-strung-together.html

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        LOI,

        CO2 itself does not “cause” heat. short-wave radiation from the sun hits the earth, and scatters. Most of this goes to heat the earth, but some of the energy becomes long-wave radiation which heads back toward space. CO2 is capable of absorbing SOME of this radiation in certain wavelengths due to its molecular structure. When a CO2 molecule absorbs some of this radiation, the molecule goes into an “excited state”. Molecules don’t like to be in excited states, so they return to their “ground state” and re-release the energy in the form of heat.

        It is thought that about 5% of outgoing radiation is “trapped by natural greenhouse gasses” in this way.

        • July 10, 2012
          Hottest Ever?
          Randall Hoven

          Maybe you’ve seen the headlines: “Hottest year on record” and “Feeling the heat: First half of 2012 is the warmest on record.”

          “It’s been a hot year. In fact, the first six months of 2012 accounted for the warmest January-through-June period on record for the contiguous U.S.,
          the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Monday.”

          Aha! Note the phrase, “contiguous U.S.” You know how big the contiguous US is? Its area is just 1.5% of the planet’s surface. Brazil is bigger.
          So how did the planet do this year? NASA/GISS has the data, but only through May so far. Here is where 2012 global temperatures stand (Combined Land-Surface Air and Sea-Surface Water).

          2nd warmest May.
          6th warmest spring (Mar-May).
          10th warmest Jan-May.
          14th warmest winter (Dec-Feb).
          21st warmest January.

          In fact, every single month of 1998 was warmer than that same month in 2012 so far.

          And how much about an entire year can we tell from its first five months? Not all that much, actually. Since 1881, the whole year average could differ from the first-five-month average by up to +0.16 degrees Celsius. If 2012 stays within that range, it could turn out to the hottest on record (by about 0.01 degrees), or only the 20th hottest.

          Despite the alarmist headlines, the underlying data are consistent with the conclusion that global warming has been in hiatus for the last 15 years or so.

          If anything, one might be curious why the contiguous US reads hotter than the rest of the planet. Could it have something to do with where we put the thermometers?

          Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/07/hottest_ever.html#ixzz20FFmJ5Vx

        • Peter,

          My point is on how the whole issue is “framed”, first by the warmists, then by the media. The go on and on about the heat wave. They throw in a “some scientists think global warming is to blame”. They never mention sun spot activity….and how long has it been since the telescope was invented? That must be it, hard to keep up with all this new technology. (shh, don’t mention Galileo)

  26. Now that they announced charges against the murders of Brian Terry, just watch the mainstream media act like those that are still screaming at the government over Fast and Furious to be labeled as crazy people. (I expect the phrase ‘tea-baggers’ to be used)

    Sorry, but too little too late. It took over a year and the Attorney General of the United States to be held in contempt of congress for this to happen?

    In my opinion the government is responsible for all the deaths here and in Mexico. Until they tell us who at the ATF or higher was in charge of this and how those responsible will be prosecuted it will never be settled.

    Texas is sounding nicer and nicer…

  27. “So once again we are creating the sense of economic dependence which, to me is a form of modern, 21st-century slavery,” West said.

    To put these numbers in context, The New American reported that the number of workers receiving federal disability insurance payments — over 8.7 million in the past month — “surpasses the entire population of New York City by more than 500,000.”

    West has used similar language in previous indictments of the Obama administration. Last weekend West said President Obama would rather have American voters “be his slave[s] and be economically dependent on him,” ABC News reports.

    “Self-esteem comes from doing esteemable things. Sitting at home and getting a check from the government is not going to help your self-esteem. What it will do is make you an economic slave to people living in a far, far, distant place,” West said.

    When asked about his references to slavery, an unapologetic West said, “We should not regret telling the truth in the United States of America.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/allen-west-social-security-disability-is-modern-slavery/#ixzz20FPzKggz

  28. Sorry folks….it ain’t hot yet……I will let you know when it is hot……Hot is over 110…a scorcher is 115…and Holy Shit we need some shade is 120…anything else…..child’s play.

  29. I’d be so PO’d if I was a union member and read this. I really, really hope WI becomes a Right to Work state.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/hot-dogs-slick-ads-unions-spent-4-4-151032009.html

    • The Daily Caller Social Experience

      Former Obama auto czar, Treasury officials break in eleventh hour after years of stonewalling on GM bailout
      Published: 12:40 PM 07/10/2012
      By Matthew Boyle

      Ron Bloom, Senior Advisor, U.S. Department of the Treasury, speaks during a Congressional Oversight Panel field hearing on the Auto Industry Financing Program (AIFP) under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) Monday, July 27, 2009 in Detroit. Bloom, the head of the Obama administration’s autos task force says the government wants to sell its shares in General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC as soon as possible. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)

      President Barack Obama’s former auto industry adviser and two former Treasury Department officials cracked at the last minute before a House oversight committee subcommittee hearing and agreed to stop stonewalling an investigation into alleged union favoritism during the administration’s General Motors bailout.

      Ron Bloom, Obama’s former auto czar, and former Treasury officials Matt Feldman and Harry Wilson have refused to give interviews to the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (SIGTARP) about their roles in topping up pensions for union workers while non-union workers lost nearly their entire pensions.

      The Treasury Department’s actions during the auto bailout caused 20,000 non-union workers from Delphi to lose most of their pensions. Delphi, a GM company, is one of the largest automotive parts manufacturers in the world. Its workers lost their pensions when the government bailed out GM.

      While those non-union Delphi workers lost nearly their entire pensions, United Auto Workers union members’ pensions were topped off and made whole.

      While Feldman, Bloom and Wilson have maintained they think no preferential treatment was given to the unions during the bailout, emails The Daily Caller obtained in June 2011 show senior officials corresponding with senior GM officials on how to make certain decisions regarding who was going to win and who was going to lose.

      The three former Obama auto bailout officials had, according to TARP’s Special Inspector General Christy Romero, refused to give interviews to auditors about their role in the decision-making process.

      “These individuals’ refusal to speak to SIGTARP poses a significant obstacle to SIGTARP’s ability to complete its audit and to taxpayers gaining a full understanding of the discussions and considerations involved in GM’s decision,” Romero said in her prepared congressional testimony.
      Ads by Google

      At the last minute before the hearing, Feldman, Bloom and Wilson agreed that they’d sit down for interviews with SIGTARP auditors.

      During Tuesday’s hearing, though, Bloom refused to agree to answer questions Ohio Republican Rep. Mike Turner had given him at a hearing over a year ago. At a June 22, 2011 hearing, Turner handed Bloom 25 questions about his role in the bailout. Back then, Bloom said that, “absolutely,” he’d answer them. Bloom never answered Turner’s questions.

      When Turner asked Bloom if he’d answer them in writing after Tuesday’s hearing, he refused. Bloom said he didn’t answer them before because he believed his August 2011 resignation meant he didn’t have to follow through on this commitment.

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/10/former-obama-auto-czar-treasury-officials-break-in-eleventh-hour-after-years-of-stonewalling-on-gm-bailout/#ixzz20GSqkUfy

      • So if the Delphi workers got cheated, can they sue the government (us) and GM for the lost pension fund? If there was collusion on the part of government and corporate employees does that make the government responsible? Were the unions involved as well and can they be sued too?

        • Somehow I doubt they can do anything about it-but it sure gives that word “Fair” this administration keeps screaming about, a meaning I don’t recognize.

  30. OK, this is actually pretty funny. It is Andrea Mitchell, so hold your nose while you watch and listen.

    http://nation.foxnews.com/andrea-mitchell/2012/07/10/andrea-mitchell-gets-obliterated-romney-guy

  31. Bottom Line says:

    For whatever my two cents is worth…

    I still lurk, reading along fairly regularly. A lot of good has come from SUFA, and I’d be rather disappointed if it were to cease.

  32. D13 has a serious question for the Progressive minded…..Please, this is serious and not intended to start arguments.

    BF and I both have continuously warned about the first cracks in the spending problem that is facing not only the United States but that of the rest of the civilized world….and the cracks are starting to appear. Scranton being the most recent and it certainly will not be the last.

    So, you now have cities being forced into bankruptcy because they cannot control their spending….Scranton coming up over 20-40 million short. Scranton paid out 44 million and change in benefits and pensions and took in only 22 million in revenues. The records show that if you took the entire 1 percent in Scranton, and forced them to pay 75% in increased taxes…they still come up short by 10 million…..if you increased taxes on the middle class by the same way, you close the deficit by only 6.4 million…so now, you have over 50 percent of the population of Scranton in a 75% tax rate……and you still are short….and this is only one year.

    My question, how does anyone propose to solve this type of problem? There is no money and having the Fed print more creates a wider gap due to inflation….so how would any of you Progressive minded, solve the problem as it exists right now for all the local governments that are about to see the tipping of the iceberg?

    • Colonel,

      Can you provide a link to the records you’re referring too?

      • Good Morning, Todd…..I do not have an internet link. This was an interview that I saw last night and again this morning. One interview on Fox and one on CNN…..both were linked on Christie’s comments about not taking any more Federal money because of the tremendous burdens it places on the State when it runs out and the caveat to taking the dollars is keeping the program alive.

        Scranton is filing bankruptcy as a variety of other cities have, are, and are about to do so. I actually have no answers myself other than treating a city like a business….you cut, slice and dice, or you are out of business if revenues cannot sustain the costs. Was just wondering what your or other left leaning solutions would be….if you were in charge.

        I am sure there is an internet link out there but I was responding to charts and graphs that I saw on those shows. I have not verified all the numbers myself but took theirs.

        • Colonel,
          When you get some reliable facts (not Christie talking points) we can talk.

          I didn’t know Scranton was filing for bankruptcy. Where did you find that?

          How would treating a city like a business make a difference? There are quite a few businesses filing for bankruptcy too…

          • How would treating a city like a business make a difference?

            But you can’t.

            You can seize the assets of a business.

            Do you think you can seize the assets of a city? Have you tried to impound a city block?

            Government bankruptcy means the creditors get stiffed – totally.

            And even after that bankruptcy, people will still loan government money. Smart money is often quite stupid – repeatedly.

            • Do you think you can seize the assets of a city? Have you tried to impound a city block?

              Talk to the Colonel. That was his idea.

              Government bankruptcy means the creditors get stiffed – totally.

              And they all knew that going in…

          • Not sure Scranton filed for bankruptcy yet, but they’re paying employees minimum wage and have something like $5K in their bank account, so it’s just a matter of time. CA cities are the first to go. (TRay – not a fire, but you may want to consider evacuating!)

            http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/11/4622778/san-bernardino-files-for-bankruptcy.html

            • This fall we have a referendum on MoonBeam Brown’s new tax. If it is defeated, then fiscal stuff hits the rotary blades. All the poles say it will pass but my gut says no. The cigarette tax went down. They blamed it on big tobacco and their ads but is was the people saying no to any new tax even if it did not affect them. Unfortunately, the Repubs are so disorganized in the this state that they can not generate enough of a presence to actually challenge the Democratic lock on the legislature. Until that happens nothing will change. Like the Feds, CA just refuses to live up to the realities and do what is necessary to make things work. It is more important to have a high speed train to nowhere than schools that function or water for the farmers so they can make a living and pay taxes. My water rates here may triple next year. If they do, I may be forced to cut down 3 dozen fruit trees.

    • Colonel, Good morning Sir ! Hope you and yours are healthy and happy 🙂

      I can’t help myself, I had to jump in on this. I had to read up on the Scranton issue, but it seem that a vast majority of cities and States with the worst budget problems all have one really big thing in common. Let’s see if we can figure out that one really big common denominator 🙂

      • Good Morning G man…….have to get to work but we know the problem…..very basic……THERE AINT ENOUGH MONEY…..even if you taxed everyone 100%…..IT AINT THERE..

        Hope you and yours are doing well.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Colonel, g’morning sir!

      Now…who ever said that you could solve these problems by raising taxes alone?? Not all that familiar with the specifics in Scranton, so I’d be interested to read those records you refer to as well.

      Oh and Colonel, was curious as to your take on Romney’s steadfast refusal to release his tax returns. Actually be curious to hear everyone’s take on this. The good attorney from ::shudder:: New Joisey cedes the floor.

      • Good day Buck! I’m guessing you are referring to Wasserman-Schultz’s interview. Let me see, she asked why he won’t release them, when she won’t release hers. Then she went on to ask why he needs money in a Swiss bank, when she herself also has money in a swiss bank.

        Now, I could care less about anyones tax filings. Who really cares? It will not change a conservative into a liberal or visa-versa. This election is a joke anyway, and will likely be delayed or cancelled (yes, I’m sticking to my long standing prediction) 🙂

        Hope you have a fine day today!

        • Buck the Wala says:

          I’m familiar with Wasserman’s interview, but that is only the latest in a pretty long line of requests for Romney to step forward and release his returns. But since you seem to find some equivalency between Romney and Wasserman on this issue, I raise two points:

          1) Wasserman is NOT running for President
          2) Wasserman has a couple thousand dollars invested in foreign banks through a managed 401(k) plan; Romney has millions of dollars in offshore accounts. This is, I believe, unprecedented for a Presidential candidate.

          I can’t wait for there to be an election just to prove you wrong on this claim! 🙂

          • HEHE! If I’m right about the election, I will not be happy at all. Something very bad has likely happened to make this happen.

            After the way Obama has hidden his past, why all the commotion? Wasserman-Shultz is a hippocrit. Enough about her, maybe Obama can release his real birth certificate in return for Romney’s tax records. (Don’t hold your breath on this).

          • Buck,

            He’s released his 2010 and an estimate for 2011. Speaking for myself, we file for an extension every year because of the complexity of some of our business and tax code. I would bet it’s fairly common for most wealthy taxpayers to spend extra time before they submit their final return. I think a lot of it is simply the complexity of the tax code. You don’t want to take a chance on them finding and fining…..

            http://video.foxnews.com/v/1407951356001/mitt-romney-answers-critics-on-his-tax-returns/

            • Buck the Wala says:

              LOI, no one is talking about his 2011 — people are requesting his prior year tax returns. After all, as his own father said when he released 12-yrs worth of returns — one or two years can be a fluke!

              Come on conspiracy theorists on SUFA — what is Romney hiding??

              • I don’t know if Romney is hiding anything or not-but I know that the tax return he’s released- where Romney didn’t do anything but take allowable deductions and give money to the Mormon Church was used as a political tool to bash the man-simply because he’s rich. Why would he want to give the liberals more fodder for their attack on him based on nothing more than the man has a lot of money? It is a losing proposition either way.

                Personally, I find it a real turn off for rich democrats to be attacking Romney because he’s rich.

          • Now Now, Buckster…………so what if he has money in off shore accounts…..I am sure that you are very familiar with that…..(in your planning purposes)….just because a person runs for President, does not make him less of a citizen…….I could care less about how many people drop American citizenship to avoid taxes and how many people have money in off shore accounts. The Senate and House is full of people with money in off shore accounts….you and I both know this. So, this is a non item with me. I simply do not care.

            Isnt the Pres supposed to put everything into blind trusts? (which really are not blind..you and I know this as well)….so what is the problem?

            • Buck the Wala says:

              As I said below, I agree that he has every right to take advantage of every loophole out there as long as it is within the law. But the man is running for President – the public has the right to know his financial history, his investments, his involvement, etc. etc. etc. And personally I do find it a bit off putting that he has so much money stashed away in various foreign accounts. Now this doesn’t disqualify him for office, nor make him ‘un-American’, but it is something I believe we should know.

              Besides, if he is worried about how all of this makes him look in the eyes of the average voter, well then that’s just too bad!

              • Agreed….but don’t tell anybody.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Hey everybody…THE COLONEL AGREES WITH YOURS TRULY!!!

              • Buck, You act as though Romney himself designed the tax code so he could take advantage of it. Romney has been running for President for 6 yrs already, do you really think he’d shoot himself in the foot by ducking taxes? He’s made it clear that he’s not going to apologize for his success, so pursuing that angle will get you no where. How about explaining your current President’s lack of disclosure on all his personal records..spending millions to lock them down. Now that man does have something to hide. Double standard much?

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Anita, that gives Romney 6 years to have cleaned up his tax returns if he felt they would make him look bad. 6 years to bring offshore money back into the US; 6 years to change his charitable donatiosn if he was so inclined.

              • I don’t know why you are so surprised Buck-I suspect we all could sit down and discuss what we think -ALL people running for office should have to release-but lets face it -they do so, for the most part, based on “how all of this makes him look in the eyes of the average voter”. And unless there becomes some standard by which they ALL have to comply………

                So tell me how many years should Romney release-I bet if he released two more-the dems would insist on 12-just because his daddy said so. While arguing that Obama’s past info. isn’t anyone’s business.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                I don’t think he needs to release 12 years past, though it’d be nice. Hell, he released 23-yrs worth to McCain back in 2008 when vying for Veep! How about for at least the 6-yrs he’s been running for President?? That a decent compromise?

              • Compromise? What pray tell is demanded of the Democrat running for President? Are is he immune from this “compromise”?
                One’s tax information isn’t the only info. the people need to look at to access a Candidates fitness for office. Especially now that the media seems to believe Obama’s past isn’t relevant-or worse still- is racist to even ask about.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Of course Obama’s past is relevant, and of course he should be under the same duty to release past records as Romney. Where have I said otherwise?

              • But he isn’t-So- I return to my original post-“Why would he want to give the liberals more fodder for their attack on him based on nothing more than the man has a lot of money? It is a losing proposition either way.”

              • Buck the Wala says:

                VH — who cares. That isn’t a valid reason to withhold this information from the public.

                Oh, and by the way, on the issue of tax returns, Obama released his past 10 (or 11?) returns.

              • Buck do you have any idea how unfair it sounds for you, to insist, that Romney must follow the democrat idea of fairness. When Obama has locked down almost all of his past information, when a huge percentage of the media allows him to do so and uses for goodness sake the man’s own Book to tell us who he is. Sounds to me.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                This is NOT Democrat vs. Republican — I am arguing that all Presidential candidates, regardless of party, should release this information to the public.

              • I can agree that this shouldn’t be democrat vs. republican. No one should be able to just lock down their information-and all should have to release the same required information.

                But after a man has been President for 4 years and has kept his info. private- I simply cannot not go along with the candidate running against him is suddenly doing something wrong, because he won’t let the democrat party manipulate him into doing what they want, solely on their terms.

      • Hmmmm……ceding the floor, eh?. What the hell do I do with it….I don’t want it….BUT….I wonder why a tax return is important anyway…..whether it is Obama’s or Romney’s or Donald Duck’s. I file extensions every year because of the complexity of the tax code as LOI says…..but why is a tax return necessary other than….making sure that taxes have been filed and paid…..unlike what appears to be a majority of the Senate who owe copious amounts of money to the IRS.

        That said……..I think that every President, Senator, Representative, and/or government official should make public their statements because they work for the public. I would want to know if anyone is a dead beat or not. I do not care how much they make or what tax advantages that they have (Remember that you work in the industry of estate planning..aka: tax advantages)…so taking advantage of a tax code I have no problem with at all. So, I think he should make them public. I can see no reason, other than personal reasons and privacy, to hide them.I would not want to show my taxes to anyone and I have nothing to hide……because it is no one’s business. But if I were to run for public office…..I would expect to have to show them…I am sure, as you know, that effective estate and tax planning can reduce a tax rate pretty significantly….but that is the tax code and that is not unfair.

        My brief foray into politics back in he 80’s (running for school board) even my military record came into play. I was a war monger, you know and I was obviously going to change the school board makeup to teach kids how to kill…….sigh……but my finances and military record became a focal point. I did not win but did garner enough votes to throw it into a runoff….I did receive 32% of the vote. But that was enough to discourage me for future office……that and my reserve duties.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Colonel, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It is important that he release these returns, in my opinion, because he is running for public office. Tax returns do provide some valuable information (for instance, Romney’s foreign accounts — now, don’t get me wrong, this does not in any way make him ineligible for office, and he is more than entitled to take advantage of every loophole he can, but I think its important for the public to know more about Romney’s financial history given the position he is running for).

          Seriously though Colonel — teaching kids how to kill and shipping them off to fight wars as extracurricular activities!? No wonder you didn’t win! 🙂

          • Yeah….darn the luck…….actually, my opponent labeled me as unstable, since I was in a war and was a Purple Heart recipient, I would be subject to PTSD and, therefore, not qualified. Also, since I was running for public school board, my kids were in private schools so how could I know what was going on. My retort to that was….how much more unbiased could one be? But, that apparently did not fly either…..BUT…..since it ended in a runoff ( I was third with 32% ) my endorsement was critical. It was amazing how I was so unqualified, but that changed for an endorsement. But that is politics. Glad I lost.

    • Thought I would add this to the mix here talking about taxing and its effect on economies. Not totally new info, but it’s well said.

      All My Exes Live in Texas

      Not only do my ex’s live in Texas, but your ex’s, and pretty much everyone else’s ex’s as well. All of America is moving to Texas. Especially the ex-residents of high tax states like California and New York. And, I’ll bet many of the ex-residents of Big Brother tax and spend Massachusetts, Illinois and Michigan are there too.

      The fact is Texas led the nation in net population growth for the past decade, while New York and California led the nation in net population loss. Interestingly, the most new Texans (over 550,000) came from one state- California. They brought with them a remarkable $14.3 billion in income, but even that paled to the almost $1 trillion in assets and income that re-located New Yorkers brought to the Lone Star State. WOW!

      From 2000 to 2010 a staggering 3.4 million people moved out of New York resulting in a net loss of 1.3 million residents. California was a close second with a net population loss of 1.2 million during the same decade.

      So why is everyone running for their lives from New York and California? And why are so many of them heading to Texas? The answer is taxes, regulations, and quality of life. Americans have figured out that high taxes and excessive regulations kill jobs and quality of life. People simply want to have more opportunity for success and keep more of the money they work so hard to earn.

      It’s no coincidence that New York has ranked first or second in the nation for tax burden every year since 1977. That includes state income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes. There is also gas tax of a whopping 49 cents per gallon, and the highest estate and gift taxes in the nation. After grabbing more of your money than any state while you’re alive, New York also steals more of your money after you’re dead. I should know- I left New York 25 years ago and never looked back.

      California now ranks first (i.e. worst) for highest state income tax. Add to that the mantle of worst state in the nation for excessive rules and regulations. It’s no wonder the Milken Institute ranks California as having the worst business environment in the nation. I should know- I left California too.

      Lest you think this is some kind of fluke, or that taxes are not the determining factor in this “escape from NY and California,” it isn’t just Texas that is gaining all these fleeing residents. The U.S. Census reported that all of the top 15 states for population growth during the past decade are no tax or low tax states like Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Utah, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina. It seems Americans are smarter than politicians give them credit for- they are voting with their feet for lower taxes, pro-business attitude, and more economic freedom.

      Because no state in the union has a better economy, let’s look “up close and personal” at the Texas miracle. Texas practices what I proudly call “Wild West Cowboy Capitalism.” And it works!

      Texas has zero state income tax, zero capital gains taxes, and zero death taxes. It is a “right to work” state where employees may choose to join a union, but are never forced to. It is pro-business and anti-lawyer (discouraging class action lawsuits and the first state to pass a “Loser Pays” law). Texas is also tight-fisted with welfare and entitlement benefits- unlike New York and California. The result of this limited government attitude is people with high incomes, assets, and ambition are moving into Texas, while those who lack work ethic, and feel entitled to handouts are moving out. Good riddance.

      But the most important attribute of Texas is that its constitution limits the time that politicians can meet. The Texas Legislature is limited to meeting only 4 months every other year. That pretty much explains everything. Texas and my state of Nevada have no state income taxes and the fastest growing populations in America…not in spite of, but because the politicians aren’t allowed to sit in their seats all year long thinking of new ways to re-distribute income, impede business, and destroy jobs.

      Let’s look at the remarkable results of favoring hard working job-creators over entitlement addicts, and business owners over lawyers. Texas now has more Fortune 500 headquarters than New York. It tied for the highest state economic growth in America over the past 50 years, while displacing New York as the second largest state economy. The annual Texas economy has passed $1 trillion, accounting for 8.3% of the entire U.S. economy. In the last three years one third of all jobs in America were created in Texas, and in the past decade, more jobs were created in Texas than in the other 49 states COMBINED.

      One smart businessman, Andrew Puzder, sums it up. Mr. Puzder, CEO of California-based CKE Restaurants with over 3000 restaurants including Carl’s Jr. and Hardees was recently quoted in the Wall Street Journal. He calls his home state of California “the most business-unfriendly state…” Opening one of his restaurants in California takes 2 years and costs $200,000 more than opening one in Texas, where it takes only 6 weeks. Is it a surprise that CKE has stopped opening new restaurants in California, but plans to open 300 in Texas?

      So there you have it. Now you know why everyone’s ex’s live in Texas (or soon will), and why businesses, as well as people, choose states that treat them better, give them more freedom, and allow them to keep more of their own money. Imagine that? The results of smaller government, restrained politicians and lower taxes is dramatically increased wealth, happier citizens with a higher quality of life, and far higher job creation.

      PS. My Texas friends want everyone to know, “Come on down, ya’ll are welcome. Just leave your liberal politics at home.”

    • More incomplete thoughts than anythign else:

      -More cities are going the way of Detroit, they vote with their feet and leave. The public sector jobs are the people that get screwed (fire, police, those that actually try to make a difference). What else can a city cut other then wages and benefits that are outrageous? And if these benefits are not outrageous where in the world do you justify the quantity of employees with no budget.

      -If Charlie wants to talk about slave to your wages, it is surly true for those living in these cities, they can’t move because their house is worthless. They can’t get a new job because there are none in those cities.

      -What is a city to do other then declare bankruptcy? Raising taxes and fees will only make the people that can leave move out and lower the standard of living for the ones that remain.

      -Is it just me or do the government of cities that have already begun their decline not realize it? Detroit, Scranton, Pittsburgh, factory towns of the 40s and 50s in the rust belt have more government for less people nowadays. And more debt and future debt then can be realistically solvled.

      -Can communities within a city succeed? I have heard of cities annexing land from other municipalities can this work in reverse?

      -Maybe the city should go bankrupt, everyone in the city government just leave. What will the banks do? Forclose on some rundown city buildings? What will/can they do if a city government ignores their bills? Sure the city probably wouldn’t be able to get any credit but is the city paying for things that they actually have the money for a bad thing?

      -I have seen the internet articles for the offshore boat tax havens, where people could live and do buisness with the US but not be in the US. Is a for profit city feasible. Is that not similar to or a step away from current Home Owners Associations. “You must agree to the following rules to live here if not move along.”

      • It’s funny to read the local web pages here in the Detroit area. Folks have the nerve to blame our new Republican governor for Detroit’s mess.

  33. A little more than a week after accusing Iran of supplying arms for Syria’s bloody crackdown on democracy-minded rebels, the UN has given Tehran a key seat at negotiations for a global arms treaty.

    The stunning appointment by member states attending the UN Conference of the Arms Trade Treaty in New York came last week, and is just the latest example of the world body appointing rogue and repressive regimes to leadership roles. The 15-nation committee to which Iran was appointed hopes to guide what could eventually become the first legally binding global treaty aimed at regulating the international trade of conventional arms.

    Critics say asking Iran to help craft a treaty aimed at stopping arms proliferation to terrorist groups and rogue states makes a mockery of the talks. Just two weeks ago, the UN Security Council accused Tehran of shipping arms to Syria, and Iran is also suspected of hiding illegal nuclear weapons facilities from international watchdogs.

    “It defies logic, morality and common sense for the UN to elect this same regime to a global post in the regulation of arms transfers.”

    – UN Watch executive director Hillel Neuer

    “Right after a UN Security Council report found Iran guilty of illegally transferring guns and bombs to Syria, which is now murdering thousands of its own people, it defies logic, morality and common sense for the UN to elect this same regime to a global post in the regulation of arms transfers,” UN Watch Executive Director Hillel Neuer told

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/07/10/when-un-wants-to-negotiate-global-arms-control-deal-it-turns-to-iran/#ixzz20Jn2CXLo

  34. THe Nazi police State is alive and well. You can have tupperware parties, bar-b q’s and a host of other events, but don’t you dare pray. http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/homeowner-jailed-for-hosting-bible-study.html

  35. USW,

    I have wondered myself about the future of SUFA- it seems like the readership is down, at least going by the number of postings. And I have at times wondered what good is being done here. That is not a criticism of anyone, so please don’t anybody take it that way. I like to read the postings even when I don’t chime in (which is mostly because others are so much more articulate than I). But are we just the same people going around and around on the same merry-go-round? Are we influencing others or just inciting arguments?

    I know that you are busier than ever, or you would be on here more. You are one of the best voices anywhere asking for reasoned discussions and thoughtful discourse. And most of the bloggers here provide exactly that, though some just love to stir the pot and others get down to name-calling at times. That’s when I get tired of reading here. But I miss your input because you are honest, even-handed, and open, and you epitomize the type of blogger who can actually get people to think, not just react or become defensive. And I think you have influenced people to change their thinking. It is too bad that those who are completely set in their ways are often the ones hurling the insults and taking up a lot of space here.

    Yet I keep coming back, so there is a reason for that. I have learned so much by reading the articles and postings, and have come to really enjoy the “family” here. There are some of you whom I would genuinely love to meet in person. You top the list, USW, but there are many others (and I am not just talking about those with whom I agree).

    When I step back and imagine SUFA going away…..I sure would miss it. I hope you do not shut it down.

    Murf

    • charlieopera says:

      But are we just the same people going around and around on the same merry-go-round? Are we influencing others or just inciting arguments?

      Yes (answer to first question). Just inciting arguments. (answer to second); those on the left will remain there. Those on the right, will remain there. We’re here because we like to fight. Those on the right will claim they learned something new (when their minds were already made up). Same goes for the left. It is an excercise (both mental and skill-wise) that should always be encouraged, but that’s as far as it’ll go.

      As to name calling, etc. … One wonders if it is as one-sided (the perception of it, that is) as USW seemed to indicate in his post. I know I didn’t call him a racist or email him for any other reason than to let him know I couldn’t comment one day (and he emailed me back).

      I come here because it is fun to my warped sense of self. I enjoy the back and forth, but I don’t kid myself for a second about changing opinions here. The partisanship here equals that in Washington. And to agree with BF and Gman (lord help me), it is as useful as pissing into the wind. Admit it, folks, you like the fights. There’s nothing wrong with that … 🙂

    • Kristian says:

      We aren’t just going around in circles although I can see how you would feel that way. For myself, while I don’t post all that often I do take what I learn from reading here and share it with others. I’m almost willing to bet most of us do the same thing. So this site has done a lot of good in a lot of places and gone further than I think most people realize. I can’t imagine it going away either.

      • charlieopera says:

        Kristian: If we’re arguing here, we’re going in circles. Spreading the disease (unless it’s the voice of socialism), is no good. You must cease and disist at once!

        Seriously, if we spread what we say or pickup in here, I’m sure it has the same effect as it does in here (i.e., the left speaking to their choir gets a cheer; the right the same thing). This is essentially why absolute anarchy cannot work; there are far too many divergent views for each to ignore the other. Likewise, it is why governments are formed, to protect one from the other (although that doesn’t always work as well as we’d like).

        Besides, USW has by now had enough of this apology-fest … we love him … we love his site (although it should definitely be renamed) … but let’s admit it already, we love arguing … 🙂

        • Kristian says:

          I think it’s arguing only if you don’t learn something. I know that for me I have been able to listen and learn and even better, apply some of what I’ve learned here. If you aren’t learning anything it’s because you refuse to open your mind and admit that maybe, just maybe mind you, you might be wrong about a few things. Ideals are great but when they get in the way of reality they become an obstacle. This idea that you have that we are all slaves to wages strikes me as ridiculous but for you it may not be. If I want to eat and have a warm bed to lay in at night then I have to work to pay for it. I can’t depend on anyone to take care of me the way that I want to be taken care of. I know what I need and I know what I want and I know that I have to work to achieve those things. If you don’t earn it but instead take it as your due from society, it doesn’t mean as much. That’s just my take on it. You may believe something completely different. It doesn’t mean that I’m wrong it just means that my thought process on that subject is different than yours. Does that make sense?

          • charlieopera says:

            If you aren’t learning anything it’s because you refuse to open your mind and admit that maybe, just maybe mind you, you might be wrong about a few things.

            Good post, Kristian. . Now, does that apply both ways?

            Ideals are great but when they get in the way of reality they become an obstacle. This idea that you have that we are all slaves to wages strikes me as ridiculous but for you it may not be.

            Again, does this apply to theories that seek the help of ONE’s universe? Does it only apply to those who side with your argument?

            If I want to eat and have a warm bed to lay in at night then I have to work to pay for it. I can’t depend on anyone to take care of me the way that I want to be taken care of. I know what I need and I know what I want and I know that I have to work to achieve those things. If you don’t earn it but instead take it as your due from society, it doesn’t mean as much. That’s just my take on it. You may believe something completely different. It doesn’t mean that I’m wrong it just means that my thought process on that subject is different than yours. Does that make sense?

            There is an assumption in your model that is not representative of what I believe (if you’re directing it at me). I too believe work provides dignity and that all should strive for that. I don’t happen to believe in the capitalist system (that’s all I don’t believe in). I don’t believe in unrestrained profit (because it assumes all the help along the way was a one-time deal/investment). These are different arguments for different days (I’m at work and can only play between jobs) …

            • charlieopera says:

              On Slaves of Wages … it’s a fact some can’t stand to admit (although even USW admitted this is true to an extent). We have to work (you said so yourself). We are slaves to our wages in many forms, but there’s no denying that to keep what we have (lifestyle, etc.) we need jobs … should our liberty (since that’s such a big one on this site) be subject to our jobs? Now, while this applies everywhere (all “isms” if you will), here in the good old US&A, it is especially so. There is no boundry to what might increase profit, yet we attack labor unions for seeking pensions for its workers. We attack each other at the lowest levels of the income scale for the sake of whom? It’s all a bit absurd to me. Lunch time … I’m off for a walk and a read …

              See, even I can be nice …

              • Kristian says:

                I don’t see it as slavery but as a personal responsibility. I have a responsibility to myself to provide for myself to the best of my ability. That isn’t the governments job or any other social program. It’s my place to provide for me. I’m not quite sure how you figure our liberty is tied to our jobs? I’m going to need a little better explanation of that than what I’ve seen so far. Now, do I believe that there are those who really do need those programs? You betcha!! I also know that some of those programs have been so abused that the people who really need them either have limited access or no access to them. So in answer to a question that you posed a few days ago, yes fraud does matter. When it takes away from those that the programs were intended for because someone or a few hundred someones scam the system, it’s wrong. As to the unions, if they weren’t corrupt and were still doing what they were created to do I would have no problem with them. They are supposed to be there for the workers but you and I both know that they are more political than anything else these days.

              • Kristian says:

                By the way, what is the name of the book you’re about to publish? I’d like to buy it and read it and see if maybe that makes any sense to me.

            • Kristian says:

              Good post, Kristian. . Now, does that apply both ways?

              Yes it does. I’ve learned something from both sides on this site because I’ve been willing to listen and have an understanding that I don’t know everything.

        • Charlie what would you like to rename SUFA.. American Knucksline? 🙂

          • charlieopera says:

            I can’t leave without responding to Anita, my love.

            I dont’ know, but that is one hell of a title, Anita. I may use it for my thesis …

      • I think I have learned and changed my position, but it was a right-shift, closer to Flag. Would bet Charlie doesn’t see that as “change” because it was away from his positions.

        • charlieopera says:

          No, LOI … it’s a change … I see it … in the wrong direction, but discernable. But since BF sees the world in black and white only, there’s no “closer to Flag” that counts … either you’re with him or you’re against him (no such thing as small gov’t to an “truly free market” anarchist … there’s no government at all).

          Which is why he talks to the universe … 🙂

          • Now that’s funny! You’re still full of __it but I’ll give you some points for humor!

    • Murf,

      (which is mostly because others are so much more articulate than I)

      This is a mistake.

      I’ve always thought of myself as a fairly logical and articulate guy. But how often do you get to practice that? I used to do a few reports for work every year, but that’s not much practice. What I learn on one report is lost by the time I write the next one.

      But on SUFA, you have the opportunity to write on complex topics every day, and you get immediate and STRONG feedback! 🙂 If you’re not articulate enough, you hear about it, and have the opportunity to try again.

      I always chuckle when someone posts a comment like “No, you misunderstood my post. Go back and read it again.” That’s wrong – obviously the reader didn’t understand the original comment, so you weren’t articulate enough. It’s an opportunity to improve your writing, and the poster needs to clarify the original comment – not expect the reader to read it again and get it right the second time…

      I’ve had a pretty good career – at least a little above average. But in the past 3 years, it’s taken off. I’ve learned to read more critically, spot the errors in someone else’s logic, and articulate my responses in a way that is clear and concise. Because of promotions in the last 3 years, I now write a lot of reports for work, and collaborate with others on their reports.

      Although I think I’ve always had this ability, SUFA has helped my sharpen it to the point where others have noticed (not here on SUFA – everyone here still thinks I’m NUTS!).

      SUFA is an opportunity to improve your writing skills, and there’s almost no negative side (except maybe your ego!). You don’t really know anyone here, screw-ups won’t hurt you in your real life, and you get immediate feedback from a diverse audience.

      And besides, others here are not that much more articulate, they just have big egos!

      • ….said the guy with the third biggest ego on SUFA! 🙂

        I agree with Murf and you.. Trust me..if I had the nerve to use street language to respond to some of these posts, you guys would hate me. But I have to laugh at myself and my family dies laughing at me for how I have gotten somewhat better at getting my point across. Still wish I was better at it though. If there’s ever a SUFA gathering..street language is allowed! 🙂

        • THIRD???? Well, I guess I’ll have to be just a little bit more overbearing to raise my stature…

          See – it works – even for you! 🙂

        • Mathius™ says:

          We all know Flag is #1 in ego. I assume I’m a distant second?

          • Well????????????

          • Actually, I wasn’t including Flag..he’s just a horse of a different color, period.

            I was thinking 1) Matt 2)Charlie 3) Todd

            Why are they all liberal? 😆

            • Mathius™ says:

              WOOOOOO!!!!

              Number One!
              Number One!
              Number One!

            • Mathius™ says:

              Why are they all liberal?

              Because you’re omitting the clear winner… The man with an ego larger than everyone else’s combined. The man whose skull is so dense that planets literally revolve around his head. The man who is so self-absorbed, he thinks he’s more interesting than Johnathan Goldsmith. The only man alive who worships the ground he himself just walked on. The man who never wears the same pants twice because the pants aren’t worthy of that honor. The man whose house is decorated entirely in pictures of himself in various poses. The man who once sued the Catholic church for claiming to be the arbiter of truth. The man who considers himself personally responsible for the success of the Revolutionary War and who claims responsibility for firing the shot heard ’round the world. The man who is so vain, that song really is about him.

              • You’re rambling..I know a new baby leaves little time for sleep but dang……
                You’re going to have to prove who the song is about..last I heard the question was still unanswered.

              • Mathius™ says:

                Anita,

                I am so tired. So.. very.. tired…

                And we’re just getting started…

              • Cheer up Mathius — only 17 years and 50 weeks to go!

              • Buck says:
                July 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm

                Cheer up Mathius — only 17 years and 50 weeks to go!

                If you believe what Buck said, well….lol………….I have a bridge to sell you. 🙂

            • POV?

  36. @ Buck…….pay no attention to the snarling grunting noises outside your house tonight….just keep repeating to yourself….there are no raptors..there are no raptors…..

    • Buck the Wala says:

      No worries — I’ve raptor-proofed the house as part of the preparation for my coming child!

      • You never said-or I don’t remember(getting old is a pain 🙂 )-or I wasn’t here that day-when is this little angel due?

        • Buck the Wala says:

          End of September 🙂

          • My son was born on September 20, which was 10 days late-I was fairly nice during my pregnancy-but those 10 days-I was not. 🙂

            • Buck the Wala says:

              Yup, the heat is definitely starting to get to the Mrs….at least its finally cooled down a bit to be more comfortable for her. I dont’ know how you ladies do it!

              • Because it’s the easiest, hardest thing in the world to do. You poor guys are denied the very exciting and wonderful experience of feeling life moving within you-it is an experience that just can’t be explained and is well worth the pain. 🙂

              • Congrats, Buck! So exciting!

                And the question isn’t how we do it….it’s why. The same reason you guys bust your butts to take care of your own. You just do it.

                Murf

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Thanks!!! Definitely exciting times….yet terrifying at the same time!

              • P.S. Your wife’s September due date brings back memories….one of mine was born in mid-September, and going through the summer heat during my last trimester was NO FUN. I will never forget that there was not a breath of cool air until I was literally on my way to the hospital, well into labor. A cold front hit as we were driving, and I rolled down my window…..it felt soooooo good…and less than 4 hours later I was holding my baby girl.

                ****sigh**** sweet memories…..

                Murf

              • Buck….I must continue to remind you……………………………..THEY GROW UP TO BE TEENAGERS !!!!!!!!!!!

              • And to add to it……….your child will grow up to be a CONSERVATIVE TEENAGER !!!!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHA!!!!!!!

                (Now, back to your regularly scheduled program….tap your heels three times…………….there are no raptors…..there are no raptors…..)

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Hey Colonel, thanks for the reminder! Geez…with friends like these….

                I sincerely doubt my child will grow up to be a conservative though. I’ll make sure they have more sense than that!

              • @ Buck…I see you have not yet discovered the clandestine micro waves that have been inundating your home the past month and my newly designed dream interrupter and subliminal messaging system that has been invading your innermost thoughts, thereby, subliminally changing you to conservative voice for the future, while at the same time, re-engineering the DNA in your yet unborn child to be a conservative thinker and re-designer of the world and first lady President.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Well…back to the drawing board in protecting my house! I guess raptor-proofing wasn’t sufficient afterall…

              • Not to mention that you lady child is going to be an incredibly drop dead gorgeous female….thereby…forcing you to hire my “Protecto-raptors” to keep the unscrupulous boys away with evil intentions. Also, you will have a need for my new THSKYHOMG weapon. ( Texas Heat Seeking Keep Your Hands Off My Girl )……Once on display in your living room when the suitors arrive, it is quite intimidating.

                May I also remind you, that having raised a daughter and having experience in this matter, that you really will have no say so…and that your idea of not letting her date until 25…….forget about it. It took my daughter about 5 years to wrap me up around her finger and I am a hardened combat veteran……………….you have absolutely no chance whatsoever.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Not dating until 25!? I was planning on 35. You’ve gotten soft in your old(er) age!

                That being said, I’m sure I’ll be wrapped around her finger way before she turns 5.

  37. What a hoot! Buck is jumping on the “he should be transparent” bandwagon! Say nothing of the current guy and his lack thereof, I’m trying to listen back to the Kerry days and see if I can hear your voice in the crowd condemning success and off shore accounts from those years. Hello, my name is Buck and I AM A HYPOCRITE!

    Romney must be doing better than I thought – when all you got is to rip on success and his tax filings (are you really an estate planner?), and try for the class warfare crap, he should be a shoe in.

    • 🙂 Good job..this is more like what I wanted my post to sound like..

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Kathy, as I posted above, where have I said Obama is or should be exempt?

      • The fact that your first six post’s were nothing but hit jobs on Romney leads one to believe……… Gather up all Obama’s sealed records then you can harp all you want.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Anita, my post was just a simple question as to everyone’s thoughts on Romney’s refusal to release these records. Nothing less, nothing more. This is not a hit job by any stretch.

        • charlieopera says:

          Anita, my love … tell me you’re not trying to defend a cardboard cutout like Romney … say it aint’ so …

          • Settle down Charlie, he’s not my choice…but don’t pick on the man because he is successful, while letting the hider-in-chief slide. Buck. 🙂

            • charlieopera says:

              Anita, you know me better than that. In fact, in my new book (shameless self promotion) available this month (since I just signed copies for my publisher) I make a point of smacking both Obama and the tea party in the nose … and Obama gets it first. Obama is nothing to me. I don’t even consider him the lesser of two evils … they are both equally evil (not BF’s evil, just absolute meaningless incompetents) … but I’m still looking for takers on the results … useless charisma v. cardboard … the charisma will win out every time (see R. Regan) …

              Anybody watching HBO’s Newsroom? Thought they did a great job of showing how the tea party (something even Noam Chomsky (or, as BF likes to call him, that idiot) thought their origination was valid) … then they were hyjacked by teh Koch Bros … and now they’re just another wing of the GOP … and about to take it on the chin in November in the Presidential … they’ll have cost the GOP their shot at the WH …

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Not Sorkin’s best work (I doubt anything can rise to the level of The West Wing), but a pretty good show. I thoroughly enjoyed last week’s episode with the Tea Party.

              • Charlie,

                What do you value in a person or group? Ethics? Integrity? Greed? Dishonesty?
                How many in the TeaParty have been arrested?
                How many in the unions or OWS?
                You have seen the unions cheat their own. You have seen teachers more concerned with free Viagra than kids education.
                You have seen OWS defecate on police cars, destroy parks and public property, attack police officers….
                And yet, it’s the TeaParty you bash for saying politicians must be held responsible for fiscal responsibility….

    • This is a good response. Unfortunately, this guy is either too deep financially and needs his pay-off or can’t get past the color of his skin to drop his support of the disaster that is Obama.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/r-donahue-pebles-obama-fundraiser_n_1663361.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

      • Buck the Wala says:

        Kathy, why do you feel the need to raise the color of his skin??

        Peebles is simply raising some concerns as to Obama’s campaign strategy, arguing that he finds some of the strategy being employed off-putting. This has absolutely nothing to do with Peebles’ support of Obama’s policies.

        • Ummmm, because he self identifies as the largest African American Real Estate company………not sure about your area, but we generally don’t have real estate companies that advertise their services based on race, gender, sexual orientation; and

          the African American community support of O is something like 90+%, regardless of the fact that his policies have probably hurt this demographic more than any other; and

          he clearly gets that O is a disaster, but will continue his support; so

          it’s either financial or loyalty to the brother.

          But if you want to call me racist for pointing out this possibility, you go right ahead. We’re pretty used to that non-argument from the left by now.

          • Buck the Wala says:

            “…he clearly gets that O is a disaster, but will continue his support…”

            Not sure where you’re getting that from — my takeaway is that he is criticizing campaign strategies. This is very different from criticizing the President’s actual policies or record.

  38. On the heels of The Weekly Standard’s report yesterday that DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz — a vocal critic of Mitt Romney‘s investing practices, had herself dabbled in the foreign markets — we can add Nancy Pelosi to the list of prominent Democrats to profit from overseas investments.

    According to Pelosi’s 2011 financial disclosure statement, the Democratic House Minority Leader received between $1 million and $5 million in partnership income from ”Matthews International Capital Management LLC,” a group that emphasizes that it has a “A Singular Focus on Investing in Asia.” A quick trip to the company website reveals a featured post extolling the virtues of outsourcing.

    “Designed in California, Made in Manila” sounds like an excellent title for a smear ad to be run the by the Barack Obama campaign. Instead, it appears to be Nancy Pelosi’s investment strategy.

    Pelosi is also a small investor in the embattled “Moduslink Global,” one of the “outsourcing pioneers” that Mitt Romney has been criticized for associating with while at Bain Capital.

    It’s not surprising that a wealthy politician would invest globally (nor should it be considered problematic). This is interesting because of the attacks on Mitt Romney’s investments — because Obama purportedly believes in the virtues of “insourcing” and anti-globalization. (Obama appears to be running on a protectionist platform that went out of style with Canadian tuxedos)

    Obama sure can preach the economic nationalism, but it doesn’t appear his fellow leaders and surrogates are buying the message.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/nancy-pelosi-made-between-1-5-million-on-asian-investments-in-2011/#ixzz20KdMIOGq

    • Buck the Wala says:

      LOI, why are you so insistent on making this an issue of: “Well, they (the Dems) do it too!”??

      Can’t we agree that members of both parties should be more forthright in releasing this information?

      • “Can’t we agree that members of both parties should be more forthright in releasing this information?”

        Maybe…what does “more forthright” mean to you? I posted he has released 2010 & 11 to my standards & during the primary debate, that was all they were expecting. Now you have the muckrakers demanding his returns for ten years. And I thought the IRS only required you keep financial records seven years? And I do think this is simply them looking for ammo in their class war attacks, they don’t expect anything illegal, just something to point out that he’s rich & not like us. And he’s better off to not release it because the people demanding it will only use it to attack him. They have a side, team Obama. They have no interest in truth, just winning at any cost. Kinda like they are at war while most of us think of it as a game.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          2010 and 2011 returns mean absolutely diddly squat! Though it is surprising to me that he didn’t restructure his finances for the 2010/2011 returns if he was legitimately worried about how they may appear…

          Yes, he is rich — absurdly so — but so what? That’s already a completely known quantity. What is unknown is how he invests, where he maintains his finances, his financial history; all pertinent information the public should know about a presidential candidate.

          • 2010-11 were good enough during the primaries….Now it means DS( just can’t make myself use such language(shudder))?? Maybe you and them demanding more is the true story! Lets be honest, the Wasserman Schultz’s will not be satisfied until he give’s them a club to beat himself with and a shovel to bury him after they are done! They want to know how much he’s spent on his wife’s horses, hay and haircuts. Anything they can use to attack him for the crime of being successful.

            “all pertinent information the public should know about a presidential candidate.”
            Mr Romney, you medical records show your wife use birth control. What type and how often? Are you and she still sexually active or just you?

            • Buck the Wala says:

              Come on now LOI — that is just a ridiculous analogy to even try to make.

              • Really? http://www.dailyevolver.com/2012/06/maureen-dowd-and-liberal-flaccidity/

                And you ignored my other points,
                good enough for the primaries?
                WasserSnitzel will not be appeased until the war is won!
                no matter what or how much information he shares, they will keep howling for more until he spills were Hoffa’s buried!
                Is it seven or ten years?

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Who said anything about the 2010/2011 release being good enough for the primaries? Not me! Even back then I felt he needed to release his returns going back several years. Six? Seven? Ten? Twelve? Twenty-Three? I don’t have a bright line rule – but I would support establishing a standard disclosure requirement for all presidential candidates.

            • You have a problem saying diddly squat? Wow, you are a gentleman!!!

  39. On Tuesday night, all three network evening newscasts ran with stories on a newly released government report blaming man-made climate change for recent extreme weather. ABC’s World News led the charge, as anchor Diane Sawyer sounded the alarm: “Hot planet. The world is heating up. And for the first time, a U.S. Government-backed report ties that searing heat, those epic storms, to man-made global warming.”

    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2012/07/11/networks-hype-global-warming-report-urge-limiting-man-made-greenhouse-#ixzz20LAXJb9t

  40. AS to the Scranton issue mentioned earlier (I never got an answer)…..but I just also heard that the Mayor was going to borrow the money from banks to bridge the shortfall and one of the requirements for the loan was a reorganization plan that required the raising of business taxes 78%. (This is unverified…just heard it).

    There is just one other small problem facing Scranton……it is in the heart of coal country. This administration hates coal.

    • Scranton City Council’s ideas for raising alternative revenues and proposing much-lower tax increases than Mayor Chris Doherty has would still leave huge budget deficits, according to an analysis of council ideas by city Business Administrator Ryan McGowan.

      But council President Janet Evans claimed McGowan used some inaccurate numbers, and the council is preparing a response.

      Council and mayor have been sharply divided over revising an Act 47 recovery plan the mayor says wary banks are requiring before they would consider again providing financing needed to keep the city afloat this year.

      In May, Doherty proposed a recovery plan that contains a 78 percent tax increase over the next three years. The council has balked at such large tax hikes and wants to offset them by maximizing alternative sources of revenues, such as contributions from nonprofits, and commuter, payroll and sales taxes. The mayor has countered that alternative revenues won’t raise enough money and won’t occur quickly.

      In the stalemate’s latest exchange, McGowan on Friday sent council a spreadsheet of his analysis showing that, even with the council’s proposed alternative revenues, and a council-proposed tax hike of 10 percent a year for each of the next three years, there still would be budget deficits of $7 million in 2013, $12 million in 2014 and $12.5 million in 2015.

      The other revenue sources as described by McGowan include:

      n Amusement tax: $200,000 in each of the three years.

      n Commuter tax, pending court approval: $1.5 million in 2013, and $4 million in the latter two years.

      n Market-based revenue opportunities, such as advertising on city properties: $353,000 in 2013; $530,000 in 2013 and $708,000 in 2015.

      n Selling delinquent refuse fees and taxes: $2.4 million in 2013.

      n Parking meter enhancements: $350,000 in 2013, and $700,000 in the latter two years.

      n Departmental reductions: 10 percent cuts in 2015 saving $2.2 million.

      n Health care savings from increasing employee contributions: $625,000 in 2015.

      n Sales tax, pending approval by state Legislature: $2.7 million in 2013; $3.7 million in 2014; and $4.2 million in 2015.

      n Payroll tax, pending approval by state Legislature: $26,000 in 2014 and $51,000 in 2015.

  41. charlieopera says:

    @ Kristian:

    I don’t see it as slavery but as a personal responsibility. I have a responsibility to myself to provide for myself to the best of my ability. That isn’t the governments job or any other social program. It’s my place to provide for me.

    As it should be. But can you walk away from that? Can you walk away form that and still afford to pay your mortgage, keep your kids out of harms way, etc. And how much do you have to endure on the job? Do you like what you do? Do you feel you’re paid a fair wage (vs. the profits whomever you work for)? You may and good on you if that’s the way you feel. I happen to think and believe that everyone benefits from everyone else (public roads, education, health, etc.) … so much so, nobody should have the right to earn unlimited profit. That’s just my belief, but if you’re on the job and you don’t like the way you’re being treated, or feel your wages are too low, etc., how truly “free” are you to walk away from that job? You opt to blame yourself for (potentially) being treated poorly or making less than you think you should. I opt to blame the economic system that benefits the owner of the means of production over those who actually do the work.

    I’m not quite sure how you figure our liberty is tied to our jobs? I’m going to need a little better explanation of that than what I’ve seen so far.

    I’m not sure if the above works for you, but essentially … people in here opt not to use their real names (yet champion the cause of liberty) because why? A) they may loose their jobs or B) they’re chicken shits?

    I will say A. It is a genuine concern in our “free market” … we are so tied to wages determined by a person who’s goal is to earn as much profit as he/they can, we have no choice but to tow the line (so to speak), except now it extends to our personal life (and not just how we’re treated in the workplace (good or bad).

    Now, do I believe that there are those who really do need those programs? You betcha!! I also know that some of those programs have been so abused that the people who really need them either have limited access or no access to them. So in answer to a question that you posed a few days ago, yes fraud does matter. When it takes away from those that the programs were intended for because someone or a few hundred someones scam the system, it’s wrong. As to the unions, if they weren’t corrupt and were still doing what they were created to do I would have no problem with them. They are supposed to be there for the workers but you and I both know that they are more political than anything else these days.

    Good for you for showing some compassion (BF has none — they’re all lazy SOB’s who can move to North Dakota and flip burgers for $25. an hour whenever they’re ready to get off their asses — the universe told him this). .You are correct that programs are scammed and while I said “who cares” it was with a caveat (sure we should clean them up as fast as possible) but to disband them for those who truly need them because of fraud isn’t right either. Fix them. Put people to work to do the overseeing (rather than bureacrats). We have X amount unemployed … put them to work!

    The unions have become corrupt. Have been for a while. I was a union member for 10+ years and they were corrupt back then (70’s-80’s) … but they are no more corrupt than the pols taking their money or the big business that owns the government (far more than any union). It’s all corrupt. Perhaps more so than we accuse socialist governments of being (and they are corrupt, make no mistake) … but we seem to be serving one set of Kings here in the good old US&A … the 1% … and since our middle class numbers continue (daily) to slip into a poverty level, I don’t see the point in staying on the same road to ruin. It was only a matter of time before capitalism devoured itself and it’s just beginning.

    • Kristian says:

      I can walk away from it, but it would be stupid of me to do so until I’d figured out what I was going to do about another job. I do enjoy my job but like anyone else there are days when I feel under paid for what I do and I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have some stress at their job.

      I use my real name on this site as well, it never occured to me to use anything else.

      • charlieopera says:

        Kristian (and everyone else) … third world here we come … in Scranton, PA, a “democratic” mayor has reduced everyone on the government payroll to “minimum wage” … $7.25 an hour for police, fire, etc. ….

        What a catchy idea! Maybe we can all work for minimum wage and the 1% can become even more powerful!

        I hope when they start burning homes in Scranton, PA, they start with the “democratic” mayor’s home first …

        • Kristian says:

          I think it was either that or raise taxes 78%. I heard this on the news this morning. If they are going to do this then they need to put a time limit on it. Especially for the fire and police!

          • charlieopera says:

            Why a time limit? (kidding) … why not everybody who works for a living earn minimum wage? it’s what capitalism will lead to sooner than we think. We already have people here screaming against unions (as if a pension and crappy $42k a year for teachers in WI is breaking the country) …

            How about everybody sacrificing together rather than just workers? (dead serious) ….

            • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

              Charlie,

              Ultimately in Socialism, isn’t the IDEA for EVERYONE to eventually earn the SAME WAGE? If so, then it doesn’t really matter whether you call it minimum wage or maximum wage, now does it?

  42. charlieopera says:

    Kristian: My books have nothing to do with anything outside of entertainment. They are crime novels, pure and simple. In the latest (Rough Riders), I take a few pokes about both political parties and the way this government has treated native Americans (never honoring a single treaty ever) … but it is a crime novel first and foremost. Go charliestella.net for my nonsense.

  43. CBO revised figures:

    ANDREW TAYLOR Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON — President ’s budget would generate unsustainably large deficits averaging almost $1 trillion a year during the next decade, according to new estimates released today.

    The new Congressional Budget Office figures predict Obama’s budget will produce $9.3 trillion worth of red ink over 2010-2019. That’s $2.3 trillion worse than the administration predicted in its budget just last month.

    Worst of all, CBO says the deficit under Obama’s policies would never go below 4 percent of the size of the economy, figures that economists agree are unsustainable. By the end of the decade, the deficit would exceed 5 percent of gross domestic product, a dangerously high level.

  44. @Charlie-

    Question, and this is on the level, not intended to needle. Perhaps this has been covered here already and I missed it…..so please bear with me if that is the case.

    You often gripe about the greed that goes with capitalism- and no one can argue that there is plenty of greed at the top levels in business etc. But what about the greed at the top levels with socialism and communism, or any other -ism involving bigger government? Doing away with the free market and increasing the size of government does nothing to take away greed- it just concentrates the greed with those in power, and the people who are not in power have less freedom to improve their condition. So why is the greed that comes with capitalism worse, in your opinion, than the greed that comes with any other system of politics/economics?

    Murf

    • charlieopera says:

      Exactamundo, Murph. I agree … and until we form a government with genuine oversight (perhaps a revolving door of those running it (term limits) rather than never ending corruption by professionals ONLY), we’d have a chance … but at the worst, we’d all be on more equal footing. Right now, what’s to stop business (remember, it’s too big to fail) from demanding we all do what they’re doing in Scranton, PA? Minimum wage or take a hike and lose your job (slaves to wages never more self-evident). I am not a proponent of either, by the way (socialism or communism) but see no other option so long as we don’t adjust what we have now (which is a 1% ruling class). Certainly we can co-opt some of socialism (democratic socialism) … if we don’t, then I suspect at some point the switch will be a violent one. Minimum wage for firefighters and police … how can anyone in a small business justify paying an employer more than minimum wage after the city pays its protection minimum wage? We’ll be a banana republic before you know it.

  45. Wholesale orders are down in record numbers……this is NOT GOOD !!!!

  46. http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=sCSdTuRLuS8&feature=youtu.be

    Gotta watch this one….great music….good message

  47. Mathius™ says:

    US Weapon said: I don’t want to shut down SUFA. But I do know that all of you deserve better than you are getting at this point. I will shut up and let everyone else weigh in at this point…

    Wep, I know your real name. I know who your employer is. I know what state you live in. I know your email address. I know your former employer.

    If you shut this site down, I will find you. And then I’ll go to work on you.

    I have plenty of vacation days piled up.. don’t make me come down there…

    🙂

    —-

    And on the more serious note, yes, SUFA hasn’t been what it once was.. it’s true. HOWEVER, it’s still 1000x better than anything else out there.

  48. charlieopera says:

    FEAR NOT, PUBLIC WORKERS OF SCRANTON, PA … BLACK FLAG HAS SPOKEN TO HIS UNIVERSE AND HE SAYS:

    THERE ARE JOBS FLIPPING BURGERS IN NORTH DAKOTA FOR $25.00 AN HOUR … GET OFF YOUR COLLECTIVE SCRANTON PA ASSES AND HEAD WEST!

    WHY? BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SLAVE TO ONE’S WAGE!

    THIS IS A GREAT CONCEPT … MINIMUM WAGE FOR EVERYBODY!

    Seriously, yous still don’t think we’re a third world country?

    • I don’t think Flag talks like that, maybe because if he did, no one would listen……
      but if you only get part of what he’s saying, 40-60%, maybe it sounds like that to you?
      Have you ever listned to “Jamie’s Got A Gun” in your car? Then at home?( hear more?) Try with headphones, amazing what is all right there that you CANNOT hear unless you are equiped to do so…..

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Charlie,

      We ARE a third world economy, because the government continually robs the productive to pay the non-productive, as is what happens with Socialism. Paying people to not produce anything simply gives people more incentive to not produce anything, which is the simple Capitalist law of supply and demand. If you demand (pay for) people to not produce anything, then the supply of unproductive people goes up.

      • charlieopera says:

        No, actually we ARE a third world economy because 1% of the population owns the vast bulk of our assets …

        • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

          Charlie,

          In that case, then EVERY country in the world is a 3rd world country because in most countries, LESS THAN 1% of the population controls the vast bulk of assets.

        • USWeapon says:

          Odd definition Chaz…. we are far form a third world country. We are the wealthiest country in the world. Our poor live better than just about any other country in the world’s poor. Statements like this are where you lose me

          • charlieopera says:

            I’m pointing to our shrinking middle class while the upper crust gains in wealth, USW. Once our poverty level exceeds what is considered the middle class, we’re a two class system (in that regard, we’re third world).

            • You have never explained why the size of my wallet is so important a measure for the size of your wallet.

              Why do you care how much money some one else has? Pay attention to your own and stop being envious of others.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      Charlie,

      You are seeing in Scranton what is going to be happening in many California cities, Chicago, Detroit, etc. etc. When the “Public Sector” runs out of money, how is it supposed to pay “public sector workers”??? I think we are up to at least 3 or 4 California cities declaring bankruptcy now….

      Just remember, YOU have to live within your means and cannot infinitely spend more than you take in… yet the government does this all of the time, but now the chickens are starting to come home to roost, and even the government, at least at the local levels, is beginning to find out that there is not a bottomless well to draw money from.

      Also, you should note that it isn’t the PRIVATE sector that is trying to IMPOSE minimum wage on “all workers”. Rather, it is your precious “public sector” that is trying to IMPOSE minimum wage, which is a very important distinction in this case that you seem to have missed.

      You basically PROVED Black Flag’s point:

      Work for the public sector and get forced to accept minimum wage when the public sector runs out of money, or work for McDonald’s in North Dakota and get paid $25.00 per hour because there is a (PRIVATE) economic boom going on there….

      Yep, sounds like those poor public sector SOBs in Scranton might want to look into some private sector employment in ND if they actually want to make a living….

  49. charlieopera says:

    @LOI

    What do you value in a person or group? Ethics? Integrity? Greed? Dishonesty?
    How many in the TeaParty have been arrested?

    I’ve been arrested. I am one of hardest working people I know. I have never been greedy. I have been dishonest (we all have to one degree or other). I could care less how many are arrested, it has nothing to do with what the tea party has become (Kock Bros. disciples).

    How many in the unions or OWS?

    Irrelevant. What does this have to do with anything? Perhaps things get violent when you take away a person’s ability to feed their families …

    You have seen the unions cheat their own. You have seen teachers more concerned with free Viagra than kids education.

    Some, not all (teachers). In fact the vast majority of teachers are doing their jobs. Same goes for union workers. You point to those who scam the system. I guess that helps your cause, yet you say nothing about CEO’s who bankrupted their companies and were rewarded with MULTI-Million dollar bonuses. The Koch Bros. own the tea party now … bring it to their attention.

    You have seen OWS defecate on police cars, destroy parks and public property, attack police officers….

    I don’t know what you were looking at but I’ve seen a few videos of police getting violent with peaceful protesters (using tear gas on a bunch of kids sitting on a college crosswalk).

    And yet, it’s the TeaParty you bash for saying politicians must be held responsible for fiscal responsibility….

    I bash what they’ve become. A sad joke. They want “their country back”? That’s one big pair of balls, my friend. It was never their country to begin with.

    • CharlieOpera

      Are you blind?
      Are you a advocate?
      Is there something you believe and value above all other things? “Give me liberty or give me death?”
      I can respect an honest advocate, I consider myself to be a concealed carry “advocate”.
      I’ve been arrested also, minor-in- possession….not proud of that, but not for violence…funny, I carry a gun but am very peaceful.
      What about respect? What about YOU being respected on a personal level? I don’t need to ask what you would do to a punk that spit on you or any woman in your company, you are a stand-up guy. What about their lack of respect of you and your companions, wife or mother?
      ??anything??
      ???????????
      Do you give respect to those that respect you?
      Is it a club deal? Union. Neighborhood. Nockabout guy? So if they don’t recognize your mother is parent to Chaz, from the neighborhood, she don’t get no respect? (damn, having a” your mother” conversation) Where I’m going, OWS doesn’t seem to respect anybody..unions only respect unions and those that support them…so both or either of them would be happy to crap on you or your mother unless she gave them the right signal, hey, I’m CharlieO’s mom, forgetaboutit…
      Then there is the TeaParty. I do not know nor do I disagree some of them may be owned by Koch or others, but most seem to refuse national organization, acting on the state/local level. BUT, back to values, how many of them would or have craped on anybodys anything? How many have offered any violence? I have some issues with SOME police officers, look above at my post to Buch on a NY couple arrested for public dancing. But my view is that police deserve automatic RESPECT until they do something to remove that respect, like not respecting you and your rights.

      And what about history Chuck? When unions came out, they were fighting the establishment.
      When MLK marched, it was against the establishment, the oppressors…..
      Today, that is big government and big labor..throw in big business if you like, but it’s all about using government to FORCE your desires on others.
      So what about the TeaParties and townhalls? Here today, when someone steps forth to challenge the establishment, you join forces with the establishment making false charges, inciting, decieving and belittling those that history says you shoud support or respect.
      Again, where are your values? What do you respect?
      Who would treat you and yours with more respect?
      A OWS’er?
      A union protester?
      A TeaParty protester?
      Only one would agree you have the right to not agree with them…..

      • LOI,
        I think you see those you agree with in a positive light, and those you disagree with in a negative light. It’s easy to cherry pick the images to fit your beliefs.

        All OWS’ers and union protesters are not thugs, and all TeaParty protesters are not angels.

        The world is not that black and white – there’s a million shades of grey in-between.

        Only one would agree you have the right to not agree with them…

        You can’t be serious. Do you remember the Town Hall meetings in the summer of 2009?

        • Morning Toddster,

          “All OWS’ers and union protesters are not thugs, and all TeaParty protesters are not angels.”
          Agree, but back to arrest records, is that not a valid indicator of who does respect the law and personal rights vs who does not? And the media has tried to portray the TeaParty as being violent, but OWS as “peaceful”?

          “Only one would agree you have the right to not agree with them…

          You can’t be serious. Do you remember the Town Hall meetings in the summer of 2009?”

          Yes I do, even attended one. Rep Berry & Sen. Lincoln lied to all who attended, stating they would not support ObamaCare, then did vote for it…The TownHall, Lincoln called, she invited people to come and talk with her and be heard. For the most part, she and Berry were allowed to speak, but there was some loud, rude behavior from both sides. Also, both sides were pretty equal in numbers. But, no violence there, and very little at those across the nation? The message congress heard, do this and you will be voted out of office… You work for us, at our pleasure, you do not dictate to us! Pelosi did dictate and many of her loyal followers lost their jobs as a result, including Lincoln & Berry
          (he retired because of his wife’s illness, might have kept his seat had he ran).

          I think the biggest issue was spending, lack of fiscal restraint. But to judge the different groups from afar, they are all vocal. But two have a history of violence, one has a history of no violence. Do you cheer the violent, or the peaceful man? Or do you make excuses, that it was only a few pricks in that mob? But then, why are the TeaParty “pricks” non-violent?

          • LOI,
            Do you have statistics on arrests, protest numbers and size for the different groups?

            I have no doubt the OWS’ers and union protesters are going to lose this test, but the percentages are small.

            Demographics also plays a role (old people tend to be less violent and clean up after themselves) as does length of protest (old people tend to go home before dark).

            • Not any I trust. I am seeing a lot of blogs claiming 3-6K OWS arrests to zero TP’s.

              http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/11/02/the-differences-between-ows-and-the-tea-party-graphically-explained/

              • LOI,
                Maybe that’s because the OWS’ers and union protesters have real gripes, and are more committed to their cause?

                You guys talk a lot about it being time for an armed rebellion – spilling the blood of patriots, etc. The OWS’ers and union protesters are out there doing it, while you guys are here just talking about it…

                I don’t condone violence from anyone – from any “side.” But I also don’t accept your conclusions about the OWS’ers, union protesters, and Tea Partiers.

                I think Charlie hit it on the head:

                People act differently in crowds than do in public and/or behind closed doors.

      • charlieopera says:

        Again, where are your values? What do you respect?
        Who would treat you and yours with more respect?
        A OWS’er?
        A union protester?
        A TeaParty protester?
        Only one would agree you have the right to not agree with them…..

        LOI, I’m completely confused by this. I have no idea what you are trying to state here. People act differently in crowds than do in public and/.or behind closed doors. I do not see your point in this. My knock on the tea party is that they have adopted the GOP (or let the GOP adopt them). I don’t know a single tea party person (I only know a few who claim to be tea partiers) who wasn’t already a Republican who’d cut their nuts off before voting democrat. I think the “tea party” label, although it might have started as something original, is kind of fugazy.

        What I don’t respect at all are people (any people) who ignore their own history. So when tea partiers claim “they want their country back”, I find the claim absurd (and insane).

        • “My knock on the tea party is that they have adopted the GOP (or let the GOP adopt them).”
          Charlie, Charlie, damn but you got me with that one. I agree and share your concern.

          ” I don’t know a single tea party person (I only know a few who claim to be tea partiers) who wasn’t already a Republican who’d cut their nuts off before voting democrat.” History, didn’t the Dem’s take control of the house and senate in 06′? (Bushes fault?) I think many Repug’s were fed up with what they and Newt had been doing, where was the fiscal responsibility? The TeaParty started and still is about taxes and spending. It also has a large independent base, many may be former/future Repug’s.

          ” I think the “tea party” label, although it might have started as something original, is kind of fugazy.”
          I can see that as well for several reasons.
          1. The media and Dem’s kept trying to get them off topic and onto social issues that were not part of any TeaParty platform, such as abortion.
          2. The Repug’s are like any other group, not all have exactly the same beliefs. You have RINO’s and the uber religious in the same party. And they see the fiscal conservatives leaving their group and react, trying to keep them, kiss and make up…

          “What I don’t respect at all are people (any people) who ignore their own history. So when tea partiers claim “they want their country back”, I find the claim absurd (and insane).”
          Is there nothing going on that bothers you? You don’t remember ever being grateful you live in the land of the free? Where we have started arresting kids for selling lemonade. Where a couple was arrested in NY for dancing at a subway platform. So when the TeaParty advocates for small government, you can’t relate that that would mean fewer government busybodies telling you what you can and can’t do. Wanna bet if you go to a national forest, a park ranger would write you a ticket for taking a leak? It’s Ok for a bear to chit in the woods, but not you…

          • “Wanna bet if you go to a national forest, a park ranger would write you a ticket for taking a leak? It’s Ok for a bear to chit in the woods, but not you…”

            Because we all know you can’t truly be ‘free’ if you can’t drop trou and piss in a national park!

            By the way, saw that posting above about the couple arrested for dancing — why do I have a feeling that didn’t transpire exactly as described in the link? (Caveat: I’m not saying the officer was right in making the arrest; just that there was almost definitely more to the story)

          • charlieopera says:

            “What I don’t respect at all are people (any people) who ignore their own history. So when tea partiers claim “they want their country back”, I find the claim absurd (and insane).”
            Is there nothing going on that bothers you? You don’t remember ever being grateful you live in the land of the free? Where we have started arresting kids for selling lemonade. Where a couple was arrested in NY for dancing at a subway platform. So when the TeaParty advocates for small government, you can’t relate that that would mean fewer government busybodies telling you what you can and can’t do. Wanna bet if you go to a national forest, a park ranger would write you a ticket for taking a leak? It’s Ok for a bear to chit in the woods, but not you…

            I don’t buy into your “land of the free” worship. What I do say is: There (anywhere) but the grace of God (and I’m an atheist) go I (meaning I could’ve been born in the Sudan and killed or raped or butchered … but I wasn’t so I’m fortunate). This country has far to go before it reaches it’s potential, but that potential is distorted (as is our placement in world rankings) when 1% rules it. So long as we continue the nationlist afront on the rest of the world (greatest country, etc.), we kid ourselves. We stole this country from its original owners. Without getting into that argument again … is your point that you want to shit in the woods, pee in a national forrest?

            I’m fortunate to have been born here, end of story. So are us all. Today, I might be more fotunate to be born in Holland or another European country. They’re going through tough times … don’t kid yourself, so are we and public workers in Scranton being reduced to a minimum wage is pretty friggin’ telling to me as to where we’re all headed some day.

  50. Charlie……how would you handle Scranton if you were in charge. I know what I would do…but I asked first. 🙂

    • But that’s not legal in california, you know, if you were in charge…..

    • Colonel,
      Cut waste and fraud where possible. Cut or reduce unnecessary services. Renegotiate contracts where possible. Look at raising taxes and securing lines of credit where feasible.

      What would you do?

      • Hi Todd……the first thing I would do is find the biggest expense culprit…in this case as I understand it, the largest expense was the contractual arrangements with the city employees. I would try to renegotiate with the city employees for the best possible arrangement. If there is still a shortfall, then I would go to city services and eliminate duplications and non essential services. (For example, in Fort Worth we closed all of the public swimming pools….while nice to have. they were non essential. It saved millions) Once that was done, If there is still a shortfall, I would look at raising the property tax across the board in both business and personal property. There would be no exclusions as everyone partakes of the city services. This is, however, fraught with danger. The danger lies in the fact that in raising business taxes, I risk business closings and moving. If I raise property taxes to the breaking point, I might also lose people. Excessive property for sale exacerbates the problem and stifles property sales, thereby reducing values. In the event, that there is still a shortfall, there might be a line of credit available but as a banker, I would not extend a line of credit if I felt that the problem was not solved…..(meaning, there would be no long term loans unless there was a balanced budget for the long term, not short term.That would require an asset value collateral arrangement. Most asset collateral arrangements that I have seen required assets valued at 110% minimum….125% is normal)

        Before I try for a line of credit, my house has to be in order in that a Pro Forma must be produced that would support a line of credit. That Proforma would have to be creditable and not pie in the sky. In other words, that proforma would have to include a balanced budget for the term of the note, that included repayment and interest, or the line of credit will not be granted. This Proforma would also have to be based in real dollars and include a positive cash flow. I know that losses can be shown and still have a positive cash flow. (Most non business people do not understand the relationship of cash flow to balance sheets and proformas). As a banker, I would look at the cash flow spinoff. As a city administrator, I would have to make sure that I had a cash flow to support principle and interest as well as the expenses of the city.

        Now, the problem arises, as an administrator, that I have to address. This is the positive cash flow issue. I do not care about paper losses…I care about money in the bank and I care about long term issues. I would most likely call a business meeting with the city council, the business leaders of my community, the bankers, and the city employees union leadership. This would be an open city meeting that allows the public to be present. I would have my financial statements audited so that there is no way that someone could claim……”cooking the books”. This would be an outside audit firm not associated with the City. There is no reason not to have the financials open to scrutiny…this is called…..transparency (something that is lacking now). I would lay out my case of the reasons that my program has to be done, listen to the pros and cons from the public. As an administrator, I would conduct the meeting but let the players make the decisions.

        That is my utopia.

        • Explanation: The required asset value above is intended to mean the number of assets to equal the 110% – 125% greater than the value of the note and not intended to mean an over evaluation of assets that caused the housing crises. The evaluation of the assets would also be by an outside audit to prevent over evaluations.

    • charlieopera says:

      Until we get rid of capitalism, I’d raise taxes on those who could afford to pay them most, then follow Todd’s lead. First, the wealthiest in the city would get a tax hike.

      • charlieopera says:

        Isn’t it interesting how the first people to suffer are workers … a “democratic” mayor decided people earning a living need to suffer the most. Democrats, Republicans … absolute jokes.

        • “isn’t it interesting how the first people to suffer are the workers…”

          Couldn’t agree more!

          • But isn’t it also interesting that the wealthy are demonized solely because they are wealthy and seem to be the way to solve the economic problems and then everyone complains when they take flight….like it is the wealthy responsibility to take care of the poor among us….and that is crapola supremo.

            Lower the standards of the wealthy and not raise the standards of the poor…..not the way to go.

            • Oh….and I hire people like Buck to show me how to avoid excess taxes and plan for my future….so…Buck wields a two edged sword….he has the best of both worlds……he gets to criticize the wealthy and insist that they pay more but also advises the wealthy on how to avoid doing so…….sigh. I think they call that “job protection”………………..

              • Hey now Colonel — I don’t demonize the wealthy at all. Yes, I represent wealthy clients to protect assets and reduce taxes within the confines of the law. But I do believe that tax rates should be raised on the wealthy. I’m not alone in this belief — the majority of my clients say the same exact thing!

              • But not one of your wealthy clients, nor you, will voluntarily pony up extra cash to solve the problem. What a crock!

              • It wouldn’t do much good for a select few to voluntarily pay a bit more to the IRS, which is why they and I support raising the tax rates and probably need to add additional brackets as well.

              • Well, of course you support this, Buck.

                There is no end to your support of it.

                If next year, the same problem is still unresolved or worsening, you’ll argue for the same thing – more taxes.
                How do I know this?
                Because every year, since 1914, this is exactly the same argument that is rolled out.

                And there is no upper limit – because you, in your heart, you believe that no income is actually owned by one who earned it. It is all the the government’s – the earners are just lucky they get to keep any of it.

                You are a Collectivist – at times, you express it as Socialist, and other times Communist, and at other times, Mercantilist.

                But at all times, Collectivist.

              • Its amazing how much you don’t know about my views on the matter…

                Raising taxes alone will not solve the problem. Once again…raising taxes alone will not solve the problem. I’ve never said otherwise. I support raising taxes as one component of policy, one component of many.

              • Buck

                Its amazing how much you don’t know about my views on the matter… Raising taxes alone will not solve the problem.

                YET!
                You have never ever said “Nope, don’t raise taxes”!

                You raise them whether they solve a problem or not. (And, they never solve the problem they are promised to solve – NEVER)

                You earnestly believe dolt bureaucrats spend money better then the people who earned the money.

        • But Charlie, remember, we mustn’t risk frightening off the most noble (and timid) of creatures — the elusive Job Creator!

          • Ok Buck…you solve the problem. I posted what I would do.

          • Buck,

            The job creator is elusive, and very rare.

            But you are seriously blind or ignorant to believe he is timid.

            He, unlike you, actually risks his own wealth and well being to create an enterprise of which offers no guarantee of returning anything.

            When by your ill-advised, ill-thought, and malignant policies create ever worsening conditions for him, his risk calculations show certain catastrophe.

            He avoid such catastrophe.

            You insist such a man is stupid.

        • Good Mornin Charlie 🙂 I also agree that the workers should not be the first that suffer. What I find sad is that nobody has considered shrinking government (not the working class). Elliminate all unneeded positions and give the front line supervisors more authority. Second, for some reason those on the left can’t grasp that raising taxes is a failed idea. Raise taxes on the wealthy, the wealthy tell you to stick it and move, it’s happened over and over, and tax revenues turn out lower (but the insane will always think it will be different this time 🙄 ) Todd is right, renegotiate contracts. Promises made between governments and unions have all been a big lie anyway, the governments never funded their promises. (sadly, the workers thought the unions were great, only to learn later that they were lied to so as to enrich a few union bosses).

          So, in short, shrink government, LOWER taxes , renegotiate contracts, then file for bankruptcy because you cant keep your retirement promises anyway, so screw the workers (which is how it always ends up) Someday more people will realize that WE don’t need government, but they sure need us.

          • Here’s a good question, why the hell does Michelle Obama need 21 (or so) assistants? With this country’s economy on the verge of tanking, why isn’t the left screaming about this? If this were Laura Bush it would be on the front page everywhere, 👿

          • charlieopera says:

            Gman, Raise taxes on the wealthy, the wealthy tell you to stick it and move

            Migiht these be the job creators, Buck mentioned above. Gee, since the Bush tax cuts, the jobs seem to have disappeared. What’s up with that?

            Seriously, the government is in place for the 1%. The sooner you accept that and stop blaming workers, the sooner you’ll understand how contradictory many of your arguments are.

            Michelle Obama needs Zero assistants. Come to think of it, for all the good they do, her husband doesn’t need any either.

            When CEO’s get minimum wage (along with the rest of us (to include EVERYONE, 1% INCLUDED), I’ll give a crap about the nonsense argued ad naseum anymore. It’s the system that doesn’t work (capitalism) … the government has become it’s tool.

            Now please don’t give me the “it’s the people that have ruined capitalism (gov’t, etc.) … a free market would collapse overnight.

            • Kristian says:

              I’m still trying to figure out why you think that these big companies out there are NOT job creators. Where the heck do you think jobs come from, the job fairy? Sorry Buck but that question is directed at you too. Did it never occur to either of you that if these businesses weren’t having to pay as much as 35% in taxes just to do business in this country they might stay and keep jobs here? As a business owner if I have a choice to do business in a country that is going to charge me 35% or one that charges me 15%, which one do you think I’m going to choose? Really? If it were your decision, and your company, what would you do? Not from and idealistic stand point but from a reality stand point? Now, just for clarity sake, those numbers are ones that I pulled out of thin air. So no need to ask where I got them.

              • charlieopera says:

                Kristian, after the too big to fail bailout, they’ve been holding onto 2 trilion $’s, some of which (the bailed out bucks) were to be lent out for businesses of all sizes, etc. … they held onto it. How’d that work out for workers? It sure worked out for the CEO’s who bankrupted their companies (they were allowed to take multi-million dollar bonuses).

                Free up the market some more and those job creators will send every possible job that can be done overseas there (overseas) and save on labor …

                At what point to you realize how this isn’t working for the average worker? Salaries (relative to inflation) continue to go down for middle class (since 1973, I believe is the statistic). Good jobs continue to be outsourced … leaving crap behind. Corporate profits break new records every year … investors make a killing and the workers of this country suffer the most.

                So maybe Scranton has it right. Make everyone take minimum wage and reduce unemployment. Corporations will continue their boom in profit and everyone will have a job.

                Wanna eat, go to work. Slaves to wages 101.

              • The GOP has done an absolutely amazing job of trying to substitute the term ‘job creater’ for the ‘rich’. The two are not one and the same, not by any stretch of the imagination.

                The GOP has then done an equally amazing job of lumping together all small business owners in any discussion of raising tax rates as harming the ‘job creators’ — when, in actuality, a 2010 study found that 92% of all small business owners that employ individuals other than the owner would not be affected in any way by a raise in tax rates on income over $250,000.

              • From Gail Collins’ column in the NYT this morning:

                “When the Republicans claimed that capping the Bush tax cuts at $250,000 would hurt small businesses, the Obama administration quickly retorted that only about 3 percent of the small business owners have incomes above $250,000.

                Yeah, said the Republicans, but that little slice still represents more than 900,000 people, and half of all the nation’s business income.

                Yeah, said the Democrats, but that’s because of the hedge fund managers and law partners and movie stars with rental property.

                Yeah, said the Republicans, but the high-end sort-of-small businesses will still cut back on jobs or investment if their taxes go up. Taxes rise, bad things happen. It’s an article of faith. The Hartford Financial Group said it did a survey that showed just that, although as Robb Mandelbaum pointed out in The Times, only 2 percent of the small businesses surveyed actually cited taxes as their prime concern.”

              • I find your numbers hard to believe, but can’t back up my claim. The Colonel, for instance, has shifted from employees to contractors. Myself, my small business was eventually swallowed up by a national company..but..and for the record I had between 300k and 600k revenue for 17 yrs..there were many times over those years when I wondered if it was really worth it to stay in business because of how much my taxes were.

              • Anita, those are not my numbers — I’m just linking to a blurb from Collins’ column.

                As for your business, I am assuming you mean gross revenue…which would then need to be offset by expenses (employees’ salaries, business costs, etc.)

              • Yes, you’re right, those costs were high ALSO..but would you like me to show you my tax bills? They’re not pretty.

              • Tax bills are never pretty.

                But my point is that, even with gross revenue in excess of $250K, it is most likely that the small business in question has taxable income (to the owner) of less than $250K and therefore would not be affected by a raise in tax rates for income in excess of that $250K threshold. I know nothing about the specifics of your business, just making a general point here.

              • Charlie

                Wanna eat, go to work. Slaves to wages 101.

                There is the essence of Charlie’s philosophy.

                Because the Universe requires man to actually earn his living or else he starves, he is a slave.

                From that point of view, nothing anywhere at anytime is anything but slavery.

                Charlie is insane.

            • Seriously, the government is in place for the 1%. The sooner you accept that and stop blaming workers, the sooner you’ll understand how contradictory many of your arguments are.

              When have I blamed the workers? I have blamed government and the unions for the mess. The two colluded to make promises they couldn’t keep, and now it’s all falling apart, at the workers expense. Nobody will be charged with a crime and convicted. Get rid of government and the 1% owns nothing, and they no longer control the monopoly of violence. Yet you want more government!!!! You are a walking contradiction Captain Connoli.

              Peace! 😆

      • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

        Charlie,

        If Scranton hikes the taxes on “those who can afford it the most”, then those who can afford it most will simply leave Scranton, and the city revenues will FALL DRAMATICALLY rather than rise.

        Other than that, your idea is wonderful.

        • I’ll go one better. Size their assets and kick their asses out … how’s that work for you, brother?

          • It’s called the Robin Hood tax.

            Backed by the AFL-CIO and National Nurses United, the measure would impose a tiny three-hundredths-of-a-penny tax on financial trades. Supporters say the bill would cost the average investor just $1 per year, but could raise up to $35 billion annually from the high-stakes, high-volume high-speed computer trades critics claim increase market volatility.

            “It would benefit long-term investors with stability,” Rep. Peter Defazio, D-Ore., said. “It would benefit the economy with a longer-term perspective on investing, and it would reward patient capital as opposed to this useless daily second-by-second, millisecond-by-millisecond churning that goes on.”

            Like the so-called Buffett rule, the Robin Hood tax also has billionaire backers. Bill Gates and George Soros both say the measure is a painless way to raise a lot of money without affecting growth. It is also less politically toxic than raising income taxes on the higher brackets. Supporters think, as the election gets closer, President Obama will embrace the tax to appeal to his base.

            “It’s .03 percent,” Defazio said. “But it will still generate about $35 billion a year in income — income that could be used to rebuild the real economy, infrastructure, other investments. Or money that could be used to help defray our deficit.”

            Defazio and Democratic Sen. Tom Harkin have introduced a financial transaction tax bill that is currently stuck in the legislative process. Obama has not spoken publicly on it as he continues to raise campaign funds off Wall Street — which, no surprise, opposes the tax.

            Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/11/robin-hood-tax-solution-to-financial-woes-some-say/#ixzz20RXwe8oo

            • D13 throws the BS flag as high as it can go…………………….”“It’s .03 percent,” Defazio said. “But it will still generate about $35 billion a year in income — income that could be used to rebuild the real economy, infrastructure, other investments. Or money that could be used to help defray our deficit.”

              Why is this Bull Shit……because everyone here, including the left,knows that it will not go to the above described places. AND…..it would be just like social security, medicaid,medicare………………..03 this year……increased incrementally……..this is nothing more than redistribution. Also, the Robin Hood tax does not work……..it did not work in Texas….that is why it is being eliminated.

  51. charlieopera says:
    • USWeapon says:

      No need to pile on… my pride is hurt enough 🙂

      • charlieopera says:

        Same here, USW. Joe Pa was the only chance for an eye-talian to make it to the WH …:)

        It is very sad. Very sad.

  52. The federal government has given utilities hundreds of billions of dollars to install Smart Meters. Utilities loved the idea because it saved them money and headaches to store electricity and to build new and expensive facilities to store excess capacity in case of high demand.

    The touted Smart Grid was supposed to avoid devastating effects from 60 mph straight-line winds. We have heard arguments that the old, patchwork system must be replaced in order to re-route electricity in case of localized failure and downed power lines. The reality is that areas heavily attached to Smart Meters suffered the worst. Power lines and telephone lines run on the same pole. If a pole is knocked down, power goes out, but phone landlines are still operational. Some areas have buried their electrical cables, protecting them from downed trees.

    • LOI,
      This article has some serious flaws:

      Utilities loved the idea because it saved them money and headaches to store electricity and to build new and expensive facilities to store excess capacity in case of high demand.

      The Smart Grid is not about storing electricity. There is no storage capacity in the electrical grid right now. It’s too expensive and unreliable.

      The touted Smart Grid was supposed to avoid devastating effects from 60 mph straight-line winds. We have heard arguments that the old, patchwork system must be replaced in order to re-route electricity in case of localized failure and downed power lines.

      The Smart Grid won’t avoid damage from storms. Only buried lines can do that. But if the damage is between the power plant and your house, the Smart Grid might be able to route power around the damaged area, but only if the Smart Grid exists outside of the damaged area to reroute the power. But if all the lines are down in your neighborhood, you’re SOL – Smart Grid or not.

      The reality is that areas heavily attached to Smart Meters suffered the worst.

      Because that’s where the storms hit. Smart Grid and buried lines are 2 different things.

      You can have a Smart Grid with overhead lines or a Smart Grid with buried lines.
      You can also have a Dumb Grid with overhead lines or a Dumb Grid with buried lines.

      Power lines and telephone lines run on the same pole. If a pole is knocked down, power goes out, but phone landlines are still operational.

      But why is this? Because more phone lines are buried, and phone networks are laid out in loops for capacity and reliability. This doesn’t work for electricity. But if the damage is severe enough, or in a wide enough area, the phones will be down too.

      Some areas have buried their electrical cables, protecting them from downed trees.

      This is the answer, but there are issues with burying the major electric lines – mostly heat generation. This doesn’t affect phone lines, which is why more are buried.

      They seem to be mixing Smart Grid, overhead lines, buried lines, and phone lines, and saying “see, storm damage still occurs.” Of course it does, but a Smart Grid can reduce the impact, depending on how wide spread the Smart Grid is installed, and how wide spread the storm damage is…

      • Todd,

        Agree there are flaws with the article. How about accept they are correct in stating a higher percentage of smartgrid was out longer than the standard grid? They don’t say or know why. If the area hit was more modern (smart), that alone would make it appear the smart power vs traditional was at a disadvantage. I still found it interesting just as a general discussion. And the main issue to me, will I ever willingly support most “smartgrid” measures. Answer, no. Put in a “smartmeter”, free of charge? Not gonna happen! How “bout you?

        • LOI,

          How about accept they are correct in stating a higher percentage of smartgrid was out longer than the standard grid?

          Yes, I’ll accept that.

          They don’t say or know why.

          Yes – and that is the important part!

          If the area hit was more modern (smart), that alone would make it appear the smart power vs traditional was at a disadvantage.

          No it doesn’t, unless you think the Smart Grid attracts storms?

          If there was more storm damage in the Smart Grid area, it will take longer to restore power.

          Once again, the Smart Grid is not more resistant to storms. The only advantage of the Smart Grid related to storms is if the storm damage is between the power plant and your house, the Smart Grid might be able to route power around the damaged area, and keep your power on. But only if the Smart Grid exists outside of the damaged area to reroute the power.

          Put in a “smartmeter”, free of charge? Not gonna happen! How “bout you?

          Already have one.

          Where I live out in the sticks, with the old meter, every time someone sneezed, the lights would flicker and we’d have to reset a dozen clocks.

          With the Smart Meters, our lights rarely flicker now. They just go out when we get a direct hit from a big storm.

          • If all they change was the meter, a new standard meter would have been just as good? Or is there something about the smartmeter that is better? Meters allow the power to flow thru them where they can measure the use. They have no storage, so a surge in power would be the same in a smart or dumb meter? Glad to have the feedback. Hope they never use it to change your behavior with peak rate charges and such…

    • “We’ll be forcing people,” he said. “We’ll be a little more aggressive with friends and foes in the next election when it comes to things like fair treatment and dignity on the job and the ability of workers to have a place that they call home. We’ll be a little more aggressive with those things and a little less, let’s say, understanding.”

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/12/big-labor-give-obama-democrats-big-cold-shoulder-with-alternate-convention/#ixzz20RVtzWuB

      The Unions are going to be “less understanding”?

      • You can argue it’s really kind of nobody’s business who contributes to these outside groups, and the Left of course wants to cherry-pick who gets to speak and who doesn’t.

        For example, the Disclose Act that you mentioned earlier has a huge carve out for labor unions. In other words, they don’t want to have an adverse impact on people who are allied with them, but they want to bring the hammer down on those that aren’t. The item to intimidate with in this particular instance is disclosure. They’ve made no bones about it in introducing the Disclose Act that that’s exactly what it’s about. They want to intimidate their opponents and uneven the playing field. And the reason the donors, many of them – of course, those that are not concerned about disclosure can give to super PACs which fully disclose, and that’s how we know who gives to them.

        But many donors are afraid of the government. That’s why they choose to give to a 501(c)(4) for the very reason I was mentioning earlier that they believe that this administration will bring the power of the federal government down on them.

        Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/07/11/newsbusters-interview-sen-mcconnell-strikes-back-new-york-times#ixzz20RaY9fRf

  53. Way to go USA……………………………………..all the uniforms and blazers worn by our athletes in the Olympics……………………..made in China.

    • USWeapon says:

      If American companies wanted the business, they should have offered a competitive pricing model, Colonel.

      • charlieopera says:

        No way, USW … this is an outrage. I understand where you’re coming from. I respect it, but this one was a disgrace. I hope it comes back to bite the decision makers in the ass.

        • Why is it an outrage? Because their skin is a different color? Or the speak a different language? or what … racism?

          Is it an outrage if the uniforms of a New Yorker was made in Texas?
          Or N. Dakota?
          So why 10 miles more north, in Canada, would it be an outrage? 1,000 miles wast, or 8,000 miles east?

          Why does an artificial line on a piece of paper suddenly make a good or service “outrageous”? The buyers like the product, or they wouldn’t have bought it.

          SO now, it is outrageous that they like the clothes?

          You have a very bizarre sense of outrage, me thinks.

          • charlieopera says:

            It’s an outrage because of the unemployment rate in the U.S., BF. No other reason. Some U.S. workers lost a job doled out by their government … just thinking of the workers here, brother. Something tells me this was some back room deal and U.S. manufacturers weren’t dealt a hand in the game. If they were, surely we could have found something to buy within our own borders (keeping workers at work). With all the money our gov’t wasts on bullshit, one would assume they could figure out how to have olympic uniforms made in the U.S. Nothing more than that. Seems kind of silly we went outside our own borders.

            • Dang-I agree with Charlie-it’s the US Olympic Team-they should wear American made clothes.

            • So you like the Chinese to be poor and unemployed instead…. why?

              Just so you get your facts straight, the US is the largest producer of goods in the world.

              Why do you grudge a few Chinese from trying to make a living.

              It is utterly silly to hold a line on the map to be the difference of being happy or outraged that someone has job .

              • Well heck -why do we have them dress in red, white and blue, why do they carry the American flag and play our anthem if we win. Because the Olympics is friendly competition based on those lines on a map. Trade has nothing to do with this decision-they represent America, Americans pay for them to compete and they should be dressed in clothes made by Americans.

              • Because they represent some sort of “team”. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

                In other words, so what? Why does the color of a uniform mean it shouldn’t be made by Chang instead of Smith?

              • Well, I suppose Americans might pay for the uniforms, but why should the pay so much more just to have Smith make them?

                With the left over money, the team could buy more practice time instead, for example, and do something with the savings that may make it more likely to win something.

                But you want them to pile money on Smith instead … and sit around admiring a shirt that looks the same as the one Chang made, and …do nothing else…..

              • BEcause they are supposed to be representing America-not China.

              • So you’d rather the team walk around in shirts that look no different, feel no different, do no different a job, but costs a whole lot more – consuming the budget of the team, which will limit the team from say, buying better shoes, or …practicing more, or doing something else?!?

                You surely do not want your team to do very well, do you?

                You’d rather them look …. no different ..but wearing American made!! …. then win…

                hmm…..

              • Yes, that is what I want them to do.

              • You would rather them give up practice time, and not making them better at their game, but instead wear a shirt that some overpriced American made using the same machine that Chang used….

                …blink….

              • …you’d rather they lose wearing a shirt Smith made then win wearing a shirt Chang made…

                …blink…

              • Let me put it to you this way-some things are a matter of principal.

              • *scratch head*

                I thought the principle of the Olympics was sportsmanship, gamesmanship, competition, and global unity.

                I think it’s principles are precisely the opposite of nationalism, elitism, and racism.

      • Hi WEP…..that was the point that I was trying to sarcastically make……all it means is that we were not competitive. I agree,

        • I completely disagree.

          The US is not required to produce every single economic good in the world.

          Instead, it can concentrate on producing the some of the best economic goods in the world.

          You either produce everything, but badly, like India or Soviet Russia did 30 years ago
          or
          You produce some thing, but very good, like the US or Japan did 30 years ago.

          Law of Economics – you cannot be all things to all people.

          • They don’t HAVE to make every single good, but they SHOULD have made these particular goods. (and VH WANTS them to 🙂 )

          • I’m up late and so I’ll pipe in here too.

            Not an ego issue with BF at all (on this subject).

            He’s right.

            Might not like it, might not seem “patriotic” or something, but if there was no US company that could compete in price/quality/delivery, whatever parameters they were making their decision on, you go where you can get them.

            • Although he apparently has a blinking problem.

              Probably should have that blepharospasm checked out……..

              • 😯 We’re losing her VH

                Couple more reasons I’ve drummed up:
                A SPORTS clothing outfitter should have been given the nod, not a FASHION clothing designer
                A FASHION designer who can’t get past it’s own image long enough to put some American flags on the clothes, but proudly display their logo loud and clear
                It’s private sponsorship. A PSA could go a long way to gather up money to fund the effort.
                I don’t care for the design anyway..blazers and berets? How about some work out clothing, you know, to work out in?

                Made in the USA..all the way. I live by that as much as I possibly can.

              • Anita

                A SPORTS clothing outfitter should have been given the nod,

                So when would you have said “no, thanks”?

                If Smith charged twice as much, 10x as much, 100x as much as Chang? At 1000x that of Chang you would go “Nope, Chang gets the deal!”

                How much money buys your so-called “patriotism”?

                That’s the point – you’d buy from Chang at some point if the price is right.

                And that is what happened here, except you, V.H., Charlie and others are conceited to believe you would have selected “a better line in the sand” over such a cost then the fellow actually responsible for this purpose.

              • I knew you were going to scold me next 🙂

                You missed the part about the PSA to help fund the effort. I’d think differently if the Olympics weren’t based on competing countries. You also missed the part about Ralph Lauren splashing their logo all over while ignoring the American flag. But then I realize patriotism is not in your DNA.

              • Anita

                I knew you were going to scold me next 🙂 You missed the part about the PSA to help fund the effort.

                Who raises the money doesn’t change the argument.

                When does it get “too expensive” for you? At what price do you sell your so-called “patriotism”?

                Are you saying if the shirts cost 1,000 times that of Chang, you would still argue to get a little more “fund” raising going and buy the shirts from Smith.

                (PS: Smith is laughing all the way to the bank with your argument – he is your biggest cheerleader)

                And you still miss this point as well:
                If you are so willing to spend $X more on the shirts, and willing to fund raise to do it – you still have spent money that would be better used to make the team more competitive

                You are dangerously getting closer to what economists deleteriously call “Alice in Wonderland syndrome” – where you believe you can spend the same dollar twice.

                The root of economics is a concept of ‘trade offs’ – you can buy this with a dollar or that with that dollar but not both.

                No matter how you get the money or how much you get, you are only spending it once.

                If you overspend on shirts, you deny that money to be spent somewhere else.

                Now, to you, a shirt that is the same in every aspect, except the name on the little tag behind the collar that no one sees … but costs more, is important to YOU, go buy it. I have no right to judge you spending your money for whatever reason you do.

                But you better understand that extra money you spent will not buy you anything else.

                Arguing that the guy in charge of the budget of the team should have wasted more money on shirts, when there are other things a whole lot more important to spend money on then shirts is a very presumptuous.

                I’d think differently if the Olympics weren’t based on competing countries.

                And why do you equate a shirt that is worn by an American as the definition of what team that American is on

                I, myself, would look at the nationality of the people and what they call themselves.

                Never heard of a shirt defining a team.

                You also missed the part about Ralph Lauren splashing their logo all over while ignoring the American flag. But then I realize patriotism is not in your DNA.

                Ralph paid millions for the right. If you didn’t do what he wants, you do not get millions.

                Which would you choose?
                A team with flags, but as competitive as Togo
                or
                A team with Ralph, but as competitive as China

              • We’ll just have to disagree..but I believe I’ve found a crack in your armor!!! :

                ..who raises the money doesn’t change the argument..
                but who raises the money is PRECISELY your argument on so many other things.

                I’d like SUFA points for that observation!

              • Ah, you need to present at least one example within context before you get a brownie point.

              • I’m running late already for my playdate at my sister’s lake..a little help from the crowd, please. Otherwise, I have aaallllll day to think about it. Catch you later.

            • Kathy,
              He thinks he’s right, just like every other topic. The fact that you also think he’s right just inflates his EGO even more!! 😉

          • charlieopera says:

            The US is not required to produce every single economic good in the world.

            I must’ve missed the argument that it should. Then again, BF loves his strawmen …

            Law of Economics – you cannot be all things to all people

            I must’ve missed this one too … B Straw …

            • Charlie,

              Indeed, you did miss a lot of things and understanding in your life – which is why you are an incredibly observant man who suffers from a serious lack of comprehension.

            • Charlie,

              Yes you missed it, because you cannot see your own arguments sometimes.

              Whenever someone cries “Arg! We are buying Chinese shirts, because they are cheaper then Americans”, you retort “Yeah, that’s terrible, we should be making those shirts”

              Whenever someone cries “Arg! We are buying Japanese cars, because they are cheaper then Americans”, you retort “Yeah, that’s terrible, we should be making those cars”

              Whenever someone cries “Arg! We are buying Korean ships, because they are cheaper then Americans”, you retort “Yeah, that’s terrible, we should be making ships”

              Whenever someone cries “Arg! We are buying Saudi oil, because they are cheaper then Americans”, you retort “Yeah, that’s terrible, we should be making that oil”

              Whenever someone cries “Arg! We are buying Canadian beef, because they are cheaper then Americans”, you retort “Yeah, that’s terrible, we should be making beef”

              …no matter what it is, when someone makes that cry, you retort the same thing.

              And then when someone points that out, you declare “Ha! I didn’t say everything” – no, you demonstrated it instead.

          • @BF: Therein lies my premise……………………..”Law of Economics – you cannot be all things to all people.”

            Hence….apparently, the US companies or suppliers were not competitive. We should have been. Everyone, but me, wants this global economy crap….ok, you got it. Now to play in the ball park, you must (1) either be unique or (2) be competitive. I see no other alternative. I am open to alternatives…..but as a business man….I must either have a niche market or compete in the big one.

            • D13,

              Law of Economics – you cannot be all things to all people.” Hence….apparently, the US companies or suppliers were not competitive. We should have been.

              Why?

              Law of Economics is individual, so apply your claim to you as an individual.

              Do you make “everything” for yourself?

              First, its not even possible.
              Second, do so even to a moderate degree is a path to poverty

              The division of labor, that is, you do and work at an ever specialized process is the reason the US and the West is so rich. It is because you, D13, do not do everything, but do a small set, or just one thing incredibly well.

              You then trade that specialized production for the other goods and services you desire but did not make yourself.

              The higher the order of the division of labor, the richer you get.

              So the argument “US should do it all or have been competitive in all areas” is a path to poverty for the US. The division of labor as its expands its scale into a global marketplace enriches everyone in the world, including those in the US for the same reason the division of labor in your own personal life makes you rich.

              It is not merely being competitive.

              It is doing more and better what is your specific talents and ability.

              It maybe true that you can be the best at anything.
              But you cannot do everything.
              So pick a few or one, and do it the best and ignore (and stop complaining) about the rest.

              • I have absolutely no problem with your premise….I am simply stating…..that if someone wanted the USA uniforms…they needed to be competitive.

                While I am not a global person…..I do understand the premise and it is a reality. I still do not like it but that is the way of the world. I try not to buy anything foreign, although it gets very hard. I do not go to Walmart and I prefer to buy American. I prefer to support Americans….if that makes me racist…..I can live with that. I will only buy foreign on two occasions….(1) if what I want is NOT available locally and (2) If what I want is better quality elsewhere. Given the choice of a shirt, for example…..I would pay 10 bucks to Joe American, than I would to pay 5 bucks to Chang the Chinese…all other things being equal. (quality, quantity, etc) But that is my choice given the freedom to choose what market I wish to go to. Because I choose to support American products does not make me a different person or anti Chinese or anti anywhere else. It is my choice.

                But, I do understand your premise.

                “The division of labor as its expands its scale into a global marketplace enriches everyone in the world”……where you and I will continue to disagree,most likely, is I do not give a rat’s ass about anyone else in the world. However, I am also not stupid enough (although that is up for discussion) to not understand what global economics is and how it operates. I simply do not agree with it but I understand it and will have to play the game when it warrants….but the battleground and which battles to fight…..I can control.

  54. ‘Add Welfare Reform to List of Laws Obama Refuses to Follow’

    The Obama administration today issued a waiver for work requirements under the 1996 welfare reform law, prompting the chairman of the conservative caucus in the House to accuse the president of “hurting the very people he claims to help.”

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius sent an “information memorandum” to states this afternoon exercising waiver authority under the Social Security Act for the provision that “parents and caretakers receiving assistance under the [Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)] program engage in work activities.”

    “HHS is encouraging states to consider new, more effective ways to meet the goals of TANF, particularly helping parents successfully prepare for, find,

    and retain employment,” the memo said, adding that the goal of the waiver is “to allow states to test alternative and innovative strategies, policies, and procedures that are designed to improve employment outcomes for needy families.”

    “President Obama just tore up a basic foundation of the welfare contract,” said Republican Study Committee Chairman Jim Jordan (R-Ohio). “In exchange for taxpayer-funded TANF payments, the law calls on able-bodied adults to work, look for work, take classes, or undergo drug and alcohol counseling. It’s the tough love that gives people motivation to help themselves.”

    Last year, the RSC introduced the Welfare Reform Act of 2011 to build upon the 1996 law including requiring able-bodied adult beneficiaries of food stamps to work or prepare for a job and full disclosure of welfare spending.

    “By waiving the law’s requirements, President Obama will make it harder for Americans to escape poverty. He is hurting the very people he claims to help,” Jordan added of today’s move.

    “Today’s action is also a blatant violation of the law. After immigration, education, marriage, and religious conscience protections, we can now add welfare reform to the list of laws President Obama refuses to follow.”

    Advertisement
    Posted at 4:59 pm on July 12th, 2012 by

    The currant law states ” calls on able-bodied adults to work, look for work, take classes, or undergo drug and alcohol counseling.” and this NEW EO states :

    “HHS is encouraging states to consider new, more effective ways to meet the goals of TANF, particularly helping parents successfully prepare for, find,
    and retain employment,” the memo said, adding that the goal of the waiver is “to allow states to test alternative and innovative strategies, policies, and
    procedures that are designed to improve employment outcomes for needy families.”

    Now what in the world could any State come up with that wouldn’t fit into ” work, look for work, take classes, or undergo drug and alcohol counseling. “. Nothing I can think of-so just why are they doing this?????

    • Obama is really saying “if you vote for me, I will make life easier for you” “If you vote for me, I will not deport your nephew” . In simple terms, he is just buying votes. I doubt it will work, any intelligent person knows Obama is an utter failure. I don’t feel sorry for all those people balling their eyes out in Chicago after the 2008 election, it could be a world record for having the most amount of fools in one place though.

  55. charlieopera says:

    News flash … I spoke to MY universe this morning and althought it pointed out that I was contradicting my statement about losing our nationalistic approach to the rest of the world, it gave me a pass because of all the unemployment in America. The uniforms should be tossed and new ones made here in the goodl old US&A … it has nothing to do with hating the Chinese (some of my favorite characters are Chinese) … it has everything to do with unemployment in US&A.

    The other thing MY universe said is that BF’s universe is full of bologna …

    And, of course, it said, “Go Bills!”

    • In Charlie’s world, it is better that 100 Chinese starve instead of one American not working.

      This is his sense of justice and fairness.

    • Good Morning Captain Canolli 🙂

      Funny how 4 years ago, when the US teams uniforms were made in China then too, not much was said. The Lame Stream Media wanted everyone’s attention on Obama. Now, 4 years later, it’s an issue because Obama has been a failure as president and the LSM wants us to look somewhere else. Shamefully, people keep falling for their tricks and games. 🙄

    • Remember those “Look for the Union Label” commercials? Makes me wonder if all the clothing companies might have stayed in the US if they weren’t so contaminated by the unions?

      • I don[‘t doubt it-but the trade laws seem like they are designed to disadvantage American manufacturers too. I also read that those uniforms cost $2000.00 per man and $1500.00 per woman-I have a hard time believing an American company couldn’t compete with that price.

  56. @ Anita….you are right about one thing……..set aside who should have made anything….eliminate all things except fashion….

    I have to admit that is the worse looking uniform or sports wear I have ever seen….I don’t care who designed or made it. It looks like to me that the designers were on Buck’s coffee…..or Mathius’ Red Bull……..

    Meaning no disrespect to the Girl Scouts of America…..but that is the first thing I thought of…..

  57. D13,

    “The division of labor as its expands its scale into a global marketplace enriches everyone in the world”……where you and I will continue to disagree,most likely, is I do not give a rat’s ass about anyone else in the world.

    And I am not saying that “Americans” should embrace the global marketplace because it makes other people elsewhere rich

    I am saying that embracing the division of labor over the scale of the global economy is good because it makes Americans richer. It just so happens it makes everyone rich who does it – it is not “them or us” – it is “all of us”.

    The division of labor is the single greatest reason for your current prosperity and wealth – and the higher the order, the richer YOU get.

    It just happens that everyone who participates shares that benefit of prosperity too.

    Be cautious of envy – seeing China get rich in producing good you buy does not mean you are getting poor – it is in fact a very powerful sign you are getting even richer.

  58. PRECISION
    PSYCHOLOGY

    If you start with a cage containing five monkeys and inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set of stairs under the banana,before long a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the
    banana but as soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys with cold water.

    After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result … all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

    Now, put the cold water away. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one.

    The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.

    Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a new one.

    The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment…… with enthusiasm.

    Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by the fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs he is attacked.

    Now, the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

    Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, not one of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway for the banana.

    Why,….you ask? Because in their minds…that is the way it has always been!

    This, my friends, is how Congress operates… and this is why, from time to time: ALL of
    the monkeys need to be
    REPLACED AT THE SAME TIME.

  59. @BF … Why do you hate Chinese?

    This is the kind of reasoning that suggests there’s absolutely no reasoning with you, BF. This is what makes me believe you, in fact, do talk to your universe every day … and that maybe you float out there and cut off your oxygen supply from time to time.

    VH, I’m sure, doesn’t “hate the Chinese” … Nor do I hate the chinese or want to see them suffer. You’re absolutes are, quite frankly, absurd (as is most of your “reasoning”) … but we still love ya, you crazy SOB …:)

    • But Charlie,

      You demanded that you’d rather an overpaid American have the job then the number of Chinese who have the job.

      You can’t have both.

      Either you buy that shirt from the American or the Chinese fellow.
      You don’t buy from Chinese, he has no job.

      You insist on Americans must have jobs over top of the Chinese.

      It may be true that you don’t want them to suffer, but that is like the characters in the movie “Mars Attacks!” – where the Martian continues to repeat “We come in peace” while obliterating everything and everyone.

      • <i?You demanded that you’d rather an overpaid American

        Can you EVER make an argument without a HUGE IGNORANT assumption? Where did I say I’d rather than “an overpaid American”, BF?

        Seriously, your UNIVERSE needs a therapist already.

        🙂

        • But Charlie, that is why the shirt is made in China and not America, the workers are cheaper – which by reasoning, means the American is “overpaid”.

          You are “overpaid” when you charge more for doing the same work as some one else who asks for less.

          I know reason and logic is utterly foreign to you, but try at least…

    • Charlie,

      Really, what do you want the Chinese worker to make?

      No matter what they sell, you yell “They are stealing American jobs!”

      Yet, you undoubtedly argue that they “deserve jobs”…. making what, Charlie???

      What do you think the Chinese worker deserves to make that you would buy and shouldn’t be made by an American?

      • They can’t even make stinkin’ cheap shirts or cheap plastic trinkets for ya … God help them if they DARE to make a car or TV sets!

        I just can’t imagine what you think they should be doing a “job” making….

    • Thank you Charlie 🙂

  60. Though I pick on ol’ Charlie, he is actually highly representative of the boobus americanus way of thinking.

    The dialogue:

    Boobus: “Those damn Chinks! They are stealing American jobs! We oughta ban Chink imports and get American jobs back!”
    Reporter: “So, why should the Chinese do?”
    Boobus: “Make their own damn goods and sell it to their own damn people and leave us alone!”
    Reporter: “But they don’t have coal or resources to make those goods inside China. We have them. Should we give it to them?”
    Boobus: “F**k no! We don’t give no damn Chink anything. He gotta buy it from us?”
    Reporter: “How?”
    Boobus: “They gotta give us something for it!”
    Reporter: “But you prevented them from doing that with your ban”.
    Boobus: “You’re a Commie Chink lover aren’t ya…!”

    • Do you feel better? I swear when you do off on one of these over-the-top rants, you are worse than a far left liberal screaming racism.

      Now Trade-lets talk about it-First of all those lines on a map are there whether you like it or not. From my limited knowledge trade isn’t just a matter of you buy from me and I buy from you-there are all kinds of tariffs and rules on what and how, etc. that one has to follow. There is the fact that you are taking money out of our economy and putting it into another. There is a difference between Countries and how they achieve their oh so low labor rates. I can’t help but believe that these differences need to be looked at when making decisions-not just the bottom line price of an item. Now if I am wrong please explain why?

      • V.H.

        Now Trade-lets talk about it-First of all those lines on a map are there whether you like it or not.

        So what?
        The effect of what you demand is as I laid out you push and pull at the same time and wonder why the world twists and dives crazily.

        You do not want Chinese goods, but you demand they pay for American goods. How do you think this will happen?

        From my limited knowledge trade isn’t just a matter of you buy from me and I buy from you-there are all kinds of tariffs and rules on what and how, etc. that one has to follow.

        So what?
        We are talking about the consequences of such a bizarre situation. You complain about job losses yet demand that “somehow” American goods need to be bought and paid for by foreigners – you love exports. How do you imagine foreigners will pay for American good unless they sell the goods to Americans.

        But when they do, you bitterly complain! Please re-read Boobus.

        There is the fact that you are taking money out of our economy and putting it into another.

        Exactly the mental tornado.

        They are NOT taking money out of “our” economy.

        They are trading their goods for your goods.

        They are not sneaking into American and burning down the Federal Reserve.

        There is a difference between Countries and how they achieve their oh so low labor rates. I can’t help but believe that these differences need to be looked at when making decisions-not just the bottom line price of an item. Now if I am wrong please explain why?

        Who cares what “they” do and how they price their products?

        Do you really care how Walmart sets a price on a product? Not one bit or for one second.

        You check the price and if it is lower then your value point, you buy it.

        Why should you care how the Chinese price their goods, either?

        • Actually, After reading your response- I think we are talking about this one statement:

          “We are talking about the consequences of such a bizarre situation”

          In your mind Trade is good-so we trade-if the trading conditions are imbalanced or hurt the economy of this Country-too bad-government is bad so we will just have to live with the consequences.

          • V.H.

            In your mind Trade is good-so we trade-if the trading conditions are imbalanced or hurt the economy of this Country-too bad-government is bad so we will just have to live with the consequences.

            You better begin reviewing your theory of trade.

            What do you believe a trade imbalance is? Do you really understand?

            Do you -personally- have a trade imbalance with Walmart?
            I bet you do.
            You probably buy a ton of stuff from them, and they take your money, but do not give you money for anything you have or do.
            Does your trade imbalance with Walmart cause you to lose sleep at night?

            How does trade hurt the economy?
            Are you merely parroting the irrational statements of ignorant, economically illiterate people?

            • I am trying to learn BF but all I’m getting from you is I’m a racist who hates the Chinese-but when it comes to the consequences of our trade with other Countries on our Country-I’m told Quote “Why should you care”. You don’t discuss the differences and how they affect the Countries involved or what can be done to make things better-you just say trade is good and we shouldn’t have borders-well trade isn’t always good and we do have borders.

              As far as imbalanced-ordered some LED lights from China-some of them were defective-but we can’t return them because the tariff is so high for products going too China -they would rather replace them than get them back. Now this hurts the Chinese Company in this instance, but I can’t help but assume it also means that a whole lot less of our products are being bought by China-Imbalanced.

              • V.H.

                I am trying to learn BF but all I’m getting from you is I’m a racist who hates the Chinese

                I doubt that you are, but you probably accepted the irrational arguments of people who are – and you accepted them because superficially., it appeared to make sense to you

                -but when it comes to the consequences of our trade with other Countries on our Country-I’m told Quote “Why should you care”.

                I asked a serious question – why do you care what the Chinese pay themselves?

                It makes not one wit of a difference to you.

                You don’t discuss the differences and how they affect the Countries involved or what can be done to make things better

                The differences do not matter, no more than what the difference is in pay between you and your neighbor. It is irrelevant

                What you look at is the price of the goods you want to buy and the price you want to sell your goods or services. Why does what your neighbor does or does not …. matter?

                Trade does effect you – it makes you rich. You cannot produce most of the goods you personally consume, so trading is a fantastic way to get those goods.

                Why do you think this is somehow different on a national basis?

                -you just say trade is good and we shouldn’t have borders-well trade isn’t always good and we do have borders.

                There is your incoherency….. “..trade isn’t always good…:” you picked up this brainless ditty from someone, didn’t you?

                So you trade away things you value highly for things you have zero value……
                Yes, you read that right — so do you?

                Of course not

                If a trade occurs it is ALWAYS in favor of both parties – you do not trade away more value than you receive or you would refuse the deal

                It is utterly incoherent to claim “trade isn’t always good”, when -if a trade occurs- it must have been good.

                As far as imbalanced-ordered some LED lights from China-some of them were defective-but we can’t return them because the tariff is so high for products going too China

                So you bought a lemon! Make better decisions!

                No, you need to provide some coherent theory of trade – you are parroting what you read somewhere without any understanding of what is going on, and then preaching terrible solutions like Boobus and Charlie above that utterly makes no sense.

              • Okay, before we go on-that last statement-not even close -you totally ignored my point. And just to be clear, We didn’t make a bad decision-the Chinese Company worked with us to resolve the problem much better than any American Company I have ever worked with. But if we had ended up the loser in the deal-I was well aware of the possibility when we made the decision to buy them. We thought it was worth the risk.

              • So, you complain and argue that there should be trade controls, yet offer a story which show such controls suck.

                Okie dokie

              • I have not argued that there should be controls-I am arguing that there are controls and these controls seem imbalanced and one can’t just ignore this fact.

              • So you answer to controls is more controls?

                What is your argument here?

              • What is my argument-it is more of a question. How do we deal with the reality?

              • As it is.

                But if you want to change what is, you have to have principle at work to know which direction is right.

              • Or to make that a little clearer- How do we deal with the “consequences of such a bizarre situation” ?

            • Are you merely parroting the irrational statements of ignorant, economically illiterate people?

              It’s a good thing USW didn’t aim anything about name calling at this MFer … imagine the revolution fom his disciples?

              The Anarchist afraid to use his real name on a site that claims to support liberty above all else … how ironic is that?

              Especially since he claims to be so damn wealthy (with his 16 week jobs, etc.) … one would think he had the balls to state his name and be proud of it. No government is gonna tell him what to do … he’s way too smart for them …

              Or he’s just a big windbag?

              We love him, that Black Flag … why? Because he makes us laugh. He’s one funny MF’er …

              Even when his universe forget to take its meds ….

  61. Now what a minute. I’m the commie, remember???

    But here’s your deregulation at work … this is with so-called regulations … imagine without them?

    http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2012/07/13/whats_at_stake_at_jpmorgans_investor_meeting/

  62. The Department and Health and Human Services announced the agency will issue waivers for the federal work requirement of the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program — considered a central facet of welfare reform in 1996 — Thursday.

    The “Information Memorandum” states that the agency will be issuing waivers for TANF’s work participation requirements for parents and caretakers as a way to find new approaches to better employment outcomes.

    The move has some concerned, however, that the Obama administration is weakening or even violating the welfare reform law of 1996.

    According to Republican Study Committee Chairman Jim Jordan, the memorandum is proof of the Obama administration’s continued disrespect for the rule of law.

    “President Obama just tore up a basic foundation of the welfare contract,” Jordan said in a statement. “In exchange for taxpayer-funded TANF payments, the law calls on able-bodied adults to work, look for work, take classes, or undergo drug and alcohol counseling. It’s the tough love that gives people motivation to help themselves…Today’s action is also a blatant violation of the law. After immigration, education, marriage, and religious conscience protections, we can now add welfare reform to the list of laws President Obama refuses to follow.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/13/hhs-to-offer-waivers-for-tanf-work-requirement/#ixzz20WB3ZS88

    • I don’t know whether to scream at the officials for not doing their job or cry that so many of our people will not do what they know is right because they feel they must follow the rules or else. I’ve read a few articles about other countries where it is becoming more and more common for people to be allowed to just die because of some stupid rule.

  63. Because I prefer privacy in a public forum.

    That’s one way to look at it … you’re a chicken shit is the other.

    Anarchist my ass … 🙂

    • Shrug,
      Don’t really give a >>>> to what you think about it.

      • Because your claims about liberty are as horseshit as your opinions … and you hide because you’re a chicken shit … makes sense to me.

        • Oh, my.

          Charlie painted himself into a corner again over Chinese imports and he’s mad.

          LoL!

          • Mad? I”m having a blast with your absurdity. You’re a laugh riot, BF … know why? Because you have to convince yourself 50 x’s a day on this site what a genius you are. Nice life, buddy. Even with a dwindling number of disciples, you’re here cheering yourself on (in an endless drone of inanity). It’s a laugh riot. Your’e a laugh riot (except you haven’t a clue about it).

            Tell me, does your universe EVER tell you to clam up? Or are you on an automatic loop?

            Lord, your poor daughter …

            Here’s one for her (in support of her): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TvXGdIfYxk

            • The lunatic runs the asylum, all hell breaks loose.

              Somebody needs to give Charlie his meds.

              • charlieopera says:

                I still love ya, BF. No matter how much you can frustrate a person (by ignoring his questions/statements and ASSuming …).

                Cannolis are my meds, brother …

  64. @VH What is my argument-it is more of a question. How do we deal with the reality?

    You’re asking this of the windbag? Sweet Jesus …

  65. @ Buck….”But I do believe that tax rates should be raised on the wealthy. I’m not alone in this belief — the majority of my clients say the same exact thing!”

    All I can say is you run in really interesting circles….I have to hob nob on occasion with the rich and powerful and I have found no one here that wants their taxes raised or that has ever said…I make too much…here take some. They also do not believe in progressive tax rates….but, you run in interesting circles.

    Perhaps all that is left in New York and “Joisey” are the ones that wish to stay there (that is a profound statement but I think you get the link)….we have large numbers of Californians and New Yorkers coming here with their money….and are very pleased with the no state income tax and no state inheritance tax, etc…….

    However, please keep a certain number up there…they can pay my increased taxes as I feel that I pay way more than “my fair share” that is whimsically determined by the egoist and envious.

    • Oh….caveat…..egoists and envious means the Washington DC crowd that purports to have the best interest of this country at heart…..which, of course, they do not.

    • Ah but Colonel, perhaps it is you that runs in interesting circles — Texas is, afterall, a pretty strange place.

      • OK, I can live with that…..I like strange and I really like independence and being a rebel. Keep watching here because some really interesting fireworks are about to begin. (1) We are not going with Obamacare no matter the SCOTUS, (2) We are going to check voter ID’s no matter the Justice Department or Federal Courts and/or SCOTUS, (3) We are going to pull the franchise rights from business’ that hire known illegal immigrants, no matter the Justice Department and the Civil Rights Laws that are manipulated by selective enforcement, (4) We have armed our civilian ranchers, employed gunboats in the Rio Grande and border lakes, (5) we do not back away from armed intruders as does the Federal Government….you better put down you gun or die and not the “see a gun, run and hide”.

        Ya know, the fact that Obama and Homeland defense pulled 7 of the nine border closures from Texas…is viewed as a godsend…..now we do not have to deal with ICE and Homeland Security. And the really neat thing that is happening….since the Homeland Security has installed their new rule, Texas is picking up trained enforcement from Homeland Security and ICE and the Border patrol in droves. They are actually quitting their plush government jobs and coming to the State coffers because they are in fear of their lives….(Texas does not use bean bags…we prefer bigger and more bullets)…etc…They are choosing integrity over money……and I view that as a refreshing sign.

        I tell you this, because being a barrister, (even from the foreign country of New York and Joisy)…it will be interesting to see how the Feds are going to handle this open rebellion. (Not taking Fed money, refusing to expand Obamacare, checking Id’s anyway)…….. What are they going to do? Send in the troops……that will not happen. Take our highway money or Medicare money….that will not happen. What can they do…..disallow the electoral votes?……THAT CERTAINLY will not happen for to do that would most certainly result in a rebellion….Texas is leading the fight in State’s rights and will do so……other states will follow.

        As a competent lawyer, as I am sure you are, what would you do as a Justice Department Attorney? How would you enforce compliance?

  66. charlieopera says:
    • Ok Charlie…..here ya go, my Plutonian in exile………………………………………..D13, the Colonel, fully supports Charlie’s rights to be a local Commie. I support his right to be indignant to some, to being a complete blithering idiot when he chooses, to write his crime novels (which I did like the one that I read), to be on SUFA and rile the right leaning. I support your right to consume copious amounts of Cannoli and whatever the name of that sweet tooth thing you and The Walla man eat…..

      So there….I support ya man…….

      • And I, too, reaffirm what D13 says about Charlie.

        If Charlie didn’t have an outlet for his crazy, somebody else out there would have to suffer it.

        SUFA is strong enough to suffer it and thus, save the world.

  67. Hi BF,

    I had a great day with my family and didn’t think a thing about your armor, As I sit here now and try to come up with examples for you, I fear I may have twisted my thinking on your theory of ‘who raises the money doesn’t change the argument’. BUT! Just because I can’t come up with it at the moment, you are on probation! And the first time I see what I think I’m talking about, you’re hit!

    The disconnect on Olympic clothing for you (heehee) is that you don’t believe in lines on the map. We do. I assume you see no worth in the Olympic games from a country competition standpoint, It just follows that if you are going to compete against another country, everything about the event should promote the brand. Yaint going to change my mind on this one. ….ask what you can do for your country! In this case I’ll gladly donate to the cause.

    Question..do you support your local hardware store or do you go to Home Depot?

    • Anita,

      Nope, the disconnect about the shirts is the brain twist on value.

      I guarantee if the shirts so offered by Smith was cheaper than Chang (assuming similar quality), the shirts would be bought from Smith.

      That’s the point. It has nothing to do with lines on a map, but has everything to do with economics.

      Now, you certainly – for yourself – can avoid the obvious deals from Chang, and for your own reasons, like buying American for the Flag and all, buy from Smith – but do not pretend that you are getting a deal. You are trading economics for emotions – you are not buying from your head but from your misplaced patriotic heart.

      Well, so what? I do not care what reason – they are your reasons and its your money. Burn it in a camp fire for all I care.

      But equally understand what it has cost you. If you spend $10 extra to buy a shirt, you do not have that $10 and a shirt you would have if you bought from Chang. If you bought from Chang you’d have a shirt plus a case of beer.

      That’s the understanding – you waste money buying shirts at a high price ends up with you not spending money buying better shoes, for an example.

      Now you argue that shirts -somehow- will improve “your” teams performance because, well, the little tag on the back says made in America.
      Well, I doubt it will.

      I do know that buying extra time on a track or swimming pool for them to practice will, in fact, improve “your” teams performance.

      So you are willing to trade an unseen tag on the back of a shirt for less performance on the track.

      …and you call your self “competitive”. Ha!

      You think buying the shirts from an overpriced American is helping your country … I dunna know, but I’d bet that you’ll probably be the first to moan when they don’t bring home the gold.

      And it doesn’t matter if you donate extra money … that donated money still again could be spent for more practice time, etc. … something that improves the teams performance. But as typical Americans today, you’re more interested in the facade … not even the looks as it would have been the same … but the facade of a tag on the shirt instead of team performance.

      I buy solutions to my problems. If that comes best from the Mom and Pop or the big brand store, that is where I go.

      Why would I buy sub-standard solutions just because they have a different owner?

      • charlieopera says:

        Anita, this is where the black and white of it doesn’t work. Assuming BF’s formula is correct (and we don’t know that it is), the $10.00 per shirt extra cost (for the same quality clothes) obviously has an emotional impact on most in the country (those hopeless romantics who choose to lead with their hearts rather than their economic heads) … the bottom line is there is a tremendous unemployment situation here at home and THAT (not hating the Chinese worker or the Chinese or Chang or his ancestors) is what might make sense to a population trying to deal with near 20% actual unemployment. Now, truth be told, probably nobody cares about the stupid uniforms (that will be worn just twice, going and coming parade) and nobody would’ve known a thing about where they were made until it went public. Now that it has, it’s a pretty ugly stain. It won’t make much a difference in our lives, but it’s one more reason most people struggling to survive have to shake their heads and say, “We get screwed at every turn by the big boys. A private company gets to use our team for a worldwide advertisement (why they want the contract in teh first place) and they don’t even bother to have the goods made in the country the uniforms represent. These intangibles are what BF refuses to acknowledge … why? Because he’s a butt-head … but we still love him.

        • Charlie…..I did a little research…..what I found was…………………………….China makes the majority of the uniforms for the countries competing. Interesting.

          • charlieopera says:

            And something suggests to me that has much more to do with political ass kissing than it does quality and price …

        • Ah Charlie,

          Your fallacy of Gray.

          You exclaim:
          “The world isn’t black and white. No one does pure good or pure bad. It’s all gray. Therefore, no one is better than anyone else.”

          But Charlie, knowing only gray, you conclude that all grays are the same shade. You mock the simplicity of the two-color view, yet you replace it with a one-color view.

          • charlieopera says:

            “The world isn’t black and white. No one does pure good or pure bad. It’s all gray. Therefore, no one is better than anyone else.”

            Your quotes (not mine). Do you see (just from that) what you do (you lunatic)?

            I don’t have time today BF … but I just logged on here and saw a sring of BF posts … do yourself a favor and put the keyboard aside and go outside and smell the roses … take a look at life as it actually exists (outside that thick noggin’ of yours) … go meet some real to life people … shake hands with them (try not to brainwash them) … just get a feel for humankind … just do that for an hour or so … you might enjoy life a bit more … maybe.

            • You have no response, because you have no reason.

              The best you can do is try to ridicule, but that is ineffective.

              • charlieopera says:

                Okay, how’s this: “You’re an idiot.”

                I just came back from a nice walk (you really should try not trying to impress your 5 or 6 disciples at this site so much–there’s much more to life). I saw a guy just opened a sandwich business taking in his chairs and tables for the end of day. I held the door for him. I eat there often because he’s a new small business and I prefer to support those types of “workers”.

                Try doing something like that before it gets dark and the mosquitos feed off your thick noggin. Get a life, BF … for all our sakes.

              • Pointless ad homein

        • Charlie,

          Assuming BF’s formula is correct (and we don’t know that it is), the $10.00 per shirt extra cost

          That’s the problem.

          You do not understand principles – because that causes reasoning, and you can’t reason.

          So you ignore principles.

          It doesn’t matter how much less the shirt costs – the principle is that you are spending more money for the same shirt.

          That means, in Case One you have X$ PLUS a shirt, were as in case two, you just have a shirt.

          With Case One, you then can use that X$ to solve an additional human problem that you are wholly unable to solve in Case Two.

          This is is why Case One increases your wealth …. you solve more human problems with the same amount of money.

          Bargains make you wealthy, Charlie, no matter how much you spit about it.

          (for the same quality clothes) obviously has an emotional impact on most in the country

          We are talking economics, Charlie, not your weird irrational emotions.

          I do not care about your emotions at all – they are yours, not mine.
          As I’ve repeated, but as you typically ignored, I do not care how you spend YOUR money and for what weird emotional reason you do – that’s your money.

          But to equate YOUR emotional weirdness to have some bearing on ANOTHER PERSON’S MONEY is utterly bizarre.
          It is not your money.

          Why is YOUR emotion about it superior to his? What gives your emotion superior right to overrule his emotion about his own money!?

          It doesn’t, and that makes you mad, because you believe what everyone else actually has must actually belong to you too.

          the bottom line is there is a tremendous unemployment situation here at home and THAT (not hating the Chinese worker or the Chinese or Chang or his ancestors) is what might make sense to a population trying to deal with near 20% actual unemployment.

          You are making Boobus Americanus argument that I posted above.

          Repeating it doesn’t make it less stupid.

      • charlieopera says:

        Anita: Question..do you support your local hardware store or do you go to Home Depot?

        BF: I buy solutions to my problems. If that comes best from the Mom and Pop or the big brand store, that is where I go.

        Cannoli Man: And that is why capitalism doesn’t work … because the biggest will ultimately crush the little ones and rule the roost (and then you’ll have zero competition). See bookstores, hardware stores, etc. How they expedite the end of the little ones is called government, which the biggest own (which BF refuses to acknowledge in his ASSumption paradigms of a free market competition that precludes the big from eating the small). Whether they use the government or strike breakers (how the mob first came about, by the way–as hired thugs by companies to control their workers), big money in a capitalist society will always set the rules by which the rest have to live. If that isn’t slavery, I’m a very thin man.

        • Charlie….I, too, am a solution buyer except for Walmart and Target…..I have been to both stores and I have not found that the quality of the goods from either of those to stand up to my standards. I do not want something that breaks or wears out in 6 weeks.,,,and as far as Walmart is concerned, I have a problem with it from the standpoint of child labor. Target products just suck but people want cheap and that is what they buy. If some small company wants the Olympic business….they have to go get it.

          But I will go where cost and quality mesh….If I started a business and wanted to compete with my neighbor….I will find that niche that competes with him. If I saved enough money to lower my prices below my competition and I choose to take losses in the short run to corner the market in the long run…..I will do just that. That is good business and how competition works….however, my moral makeup and my integrity says that I do not go and buy from a third world country that uses child labor to under cut a market…I would rather be out of business but that is not the way of the world.

          I do not buy from China. I check labels and I check origins…..I do the best that I can. But the reason I do not buy from China is because I disagree with their policies and their character. I do not agree with their child labor laws, their forced population program, their form of government, and their economic policies….not because they eat fish and have slanted eyes. I choose not to support that and do not allow that, to the best of my ability. I believe that people that buy China products say: I like what they do and I approve of their methods and I will support their country and economics. But that is my PERSONAL opinion and I am entitled to it.

          If Charlie, the Cannoli Man, abhors violence against persons, abhors forced labor, abhors child labor, and abhors the squashing of the middle and poor class…and then the Cannoli Man goes and buys a China product…..you have become a defacto supporter of those policies. This is what I believe.

          Now, if I cannot find what I want and the only solution is to buy a Chinese made product…..I do without. But there are many that will not do that. They turn a blind eye and buy from China or a Chinese product and then complain about their politics…..this is hypocritical in my viewpoint and transcends the moral capitalist mantra.

          • charlieopera says:

            Colonel, the raptors have been running in circles and have confused you this fine morning. Have a cannoli and calm down.

            If Charlie, the Cannoli Man, abhors violence against persons, abhors forced labor, abhors child labor, and abhors the squashing of the middle and poor class…and then the Cannoli Man goes and buys a China product…..you have become a defacto supporter of those policies. This is what I believe.

            Just another reason for us to buy the dopey uniforms from an American manufacturer … which is what I’m for in this instance for those mysterious “grey” reasons you just described (as well as some others). But BF has no room for grey/gray areas … it’s all black and white in his universe (which I suspect is lonely and cold and pretty damn boring) …

        • Cannoli Man: And that is why capitalism doesn’t work … because the biggest will ultimately crush the little ones and rule the roost (and then you’ll have zero competition).

          Since you utterly do not understand how capitalism works, it is exactly why the Mom/Pop stores do not disappear when Target shows up.

          No company is capable of getting “all the things right” in provisioning economic goods.
          There service may be flawed, or their price or their product line or the employees or their management or….

          Charlie wishes you to believe these guys are perfect in all things – his utopia demands it.

          But there is no such thing – all companies have flaws, and it is at these points competition grows.

          In fact, recent economic studies show that Walmart/Target moving into an area increases the local aggregate wealth by 20% by providing not only jobs, but lower costs to commodity goods, freeing up cash for the people to buy “luxury” goods – that is goods they would not buy unless they had extra disposable income.

          See bookstores, hardware stores, etc.

          Reading Charlie trying to explain economic consequences is like listening to a kid trying to explain why the planets orbit the sun.

          Bookstores/Hardware are losing to the Internet – Amazon+Federal Express. Without the costs of store front and inventory storage plus cheap shipping – these guys are booming.

          Amazon
          2011 Sales growth: 42.5%
          2011 Worldwide retail sales: $47.7 billion
          Number of stores: Zero
          Headquarters: Seattle, Washington

          Amazon is one of the most valuable brands in the world, and its incredible growth signals that the future is in e-commerce.

          Maybe Charlie can explain how Amazon came to be, given it competed against all the “big boys”.

          Charlie is clueless – be cautious in assigning credibility to what he continues to say.

      • — I guarantee if the shirts so offered by Smith was cheaper than Chang (assuming similar quality), the shirts would be bought from Smith.
        …..and then there’s the $600 dollar hammer

        –Now, you certainly – for yourself – can avoid the obvious deals from Chang, and for your own reasons, like buying American for the Flag and all, buy from Smith – but do not pretend that you are getting a deal. You are trading economics for emotions – you are not buying from your head but from your misplaced patriotic heart.
        ….WRONG. I am as frugal as it gets. I don’t buy lottery tickets, I don’t buy cheap plastic stuff, I combine my errands into one trip, I buy my 2litres of Mt Dew from Meijer (midwest grocery chain) for $1 instead of $2 from the gas station..SO THAT I can splurge on things that are worth it to me, in this case I save where I can so I can donate to the Olympic team. (of course I haven’t donated, but work with me here.)

        –But equally understand what it has cost you. If you spend $10 extra to buy a shirt, you do not have that $10 and a shirt you would have if you bought from Chang. If you bought from Chang you’d have a shirt plus a case of beer.
        ….You’re chumming around your probationary area here. 🙂 Just wait til I can connect it right. You’re the one who says “it’s how you(anyone) VALUE something”. I don’t care to get the beer and a shirt..I want the athletes dressed in American made clothes, so it’s worth it to me.

        –And it doesn’t matter if you donate extra money … that donated money still again could be spent for more practice time, etc. … something that improves the teams performance. But as typical Americans today, you’re more interested in the facade … not even the looks as it would have been the same … but the facade of a tag on the shirt instead of team performance.
        …This is where the PSA for donations comes in. There is strength in numbers. If enough people ante up, there is plenty for uniforms and practice time.

        –I buy solutions to my problems. If that comes best from the Mom and Pop or the big brand store, that is where I go.
        …and so do I. But is this really right? From a personal gain stance, yes. But if were talking ‘TEOTWAWKI’, ‘get to know your neighbors’, ‘all politics is local’, ‘support you local community’..then ‘buying solutions to problems’ contradicts what we are trying to achieve. Should we take one for the team? and support local stores or support the big box stores. Oh man, forgive me for treading the ‘greater good’ waters.

  68. A good story about Shirts and Dogs

  69. All this over some clothes! For the record I don’t like the berets, to French for me 🙂 @Captain Canolli, Let’s see if I got wthis right, if your work for a living, your a slave to your wages. So, if your on welfare or any form of government assistance, your a slave to the government. With that said, the only way not to be a slave is to be homeless and flat broke. Interesting, but I like eating, so I grow a garden, so now I’m a slave to my garden. Hmm! I just harvested 240 lbs of potatoes and a 5 gallon bucket of beans, but I’m a slave. Tonight I will eat homegrown potatoes and brocolli, alond with venison steaks and a homegrown salad ( I love slavery 🙄 ) All this will be after I attend a gun raffle, where 64 guns will be given away, along with 10K in cash (this don’t count the 50-50 raffles). This comes with a great lunch (locally harvested and made) and all the beer we can drink. So today, I will be a slave to my ticket number and the beer truck. Sucks to be a slave 😆

    • Way to go GMan! Help a sister out. I need info on growing potatoes. 🙂 Email me if you want, or post it here..I don’t care, but they might!

    • charlieopera says:

      No, GMan …. you have it all wrong. If you’re doing all that stuff on your own, you’re nobody’s slave.

      Duh …

      But can you put some cannoli in that garden already. I’m getting hungry …

  70. PS:
    Re the Chinese shirts.

    What you all missed was that Ralph donated these shirts.

    The stupid collective “you” out there didn’t pay a dime.

    Yet you complain.

    Geezz……

  71. -Anita

    and then there’s the $600 dollar hammer

    Huh?

    We are talking about shirt as a means to discover economic truths.

    You or V.H. asked “So what do we do in the face of reality”, and the first step is to understand the economic truths and consequences of economic action so that you know which way will best provide solutions to your problems.

    WRONG. I am as frugal as it gets.

    Hard time seeing that when you demand shirts should be bought from Smith that are more expensive then Chang.

    However, why you may or might not buy one thing or another is all your reasons. I have no say and it would be pointless to say, unless you asked for particular advice, and even then, I have no say.

    But the root of this conversation is your opinion on what someone else choose to do with the money given to them.

    You’re the one who says “it’s how you(anyone) VALUE something”.

    True.
    But its not your money.

    So what you value something that is not yours is moot unless you want to buy/pay for it, which you aren’t and don’t.

    I want the athletes dressed in American made clothes, so it’s worth it to me.

    Then call up the Olympic committee, tell them you’ll replace Ralph, and go do it.

    …oh, you can’t do it.

    What was your argument again?

    This is where the PSA for donations comes in. There is strength in numbers. If enough people ante up, there is plenty for uniforms and practice time.

    “Alice in Wonderland” economics.

    No matter how much money you have, if you spend it, you can’t use it again.

    The trade off – wholly independent on the quantity is always:

    Do I buy this or do I buy that.

    No dollar can buy shirts AND practice. It buys EITHER shirts OR practice.

    You are merely judging -based on nothing- that “your” team has had enough practice and they don’t need any more of it.

    But if were talking ‘TEOTWAWKI’, ‘get to know your neighbors’, ‘all politics is local’, ‘support you local community’..then ‘buying solutions to problems’ contradicts what we are trying to achieve. Should we take one for the team? and support local stores or support the big box stores. Oh man, forgive me for treading the ‘greater good’ waters.

    That is a very good reason to buy from your neighbors.

    • Thanks BF. I don’t agree with a lot of what you said , but what do I know? ‘Preciate’ you taking the time.

  72. Chiming in after returning from vacation. I would absolutely hate to see SUFA shut down. It is and has been fun and I would hope that it would continue.

    By accident, I picked up Niall Ferguson “Civilization” and read half of it while away. Folks, this is a masterpiece and tears apart anyone who attacks Western Civilization’s contributions to society over the past 500 years. The subtitle is “The West and all the rest”. It is a balanced account, warts and all which points out that regardless of the errors, sins and omissions, the purpose of society has always been to improve the lives of people and has succeeded remarkably well. It’s current weakness is that it has lost faith in itself more through ignorance of its accomplishments rather than anything itself.

    One point which knocked me over was a comparison I had never seen before of why the American and French Revolutions differed so much in outcome. The French revolution was inspired, led and executed (pun intended) by intellectuals. The American revolution by “practical men”.

    So, Mr. US Weapon, my vote is STAY! Perhaps we should all go out and try harder to bring in others we communicate with. You brought me over from Fox.

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