A Very “Sandy” Reality Check

I saw a few comments here from the discussions around Hurricane Sandy, the efforts to help afterward, and the apparent previous discussions around what should or should not be done for those in need. Allow me to admit up front that I have not had the time to go back and read all that was written in the back and forth comments here at SUFA regarding this issue. But I saw enough that I felt like I wanted to weigh in and offer my thoughts on what I am seeing and what I think the proper role of the government is in this situation.

Let me first say that I do not believe that the answer to this situation is “people should have better prepared and if they didn’t, then screw them.” As most of you know I am a strong proponent of personal responsibility. That does not mean that I believe everyone should rely on themselves only at all times. Extreme circumstances call for a different way of looking at things. When I talk personal responsibility, I am talking about pulling up the bootstraps, working to improve your life, and not waiting on government to fix things for you. YOU are ultimately responsible for your own success or failure. I absolutely believe that. I think that overall most people do believe that.

We are, however, talking about a natural disaster here, folks. That means that there are aspects that no matter what you do, you cannot prepare for. You cannot prepare for your house to be washed away in a storm, for a fire to burn it to the ground in a storm, etc. That isn’t to say there are not responsible steps to take in order to prepare for your recovery from such things (proper insurance, safe storage of irreplaceable documents, etc.). But you cannot prepare to be able to deal with the immediate aftermath of such a disaster. You cannot (unless you are a one percenter) simply have another home on standby to rush to when your first disappears into the ocean.

Let me tell you what I think you CAN do…

You can have a plan for surviving the first week after a major disaster like this. This could include a generator or fuel or food, etc. But it doesn’t have to. You can, as a neighborhood, come together with a plan so that everyone has a place to go if theirs is the home that slides away. If you cannot do that, you can have a plan for where you will go prior to the storm coming so that while you lose a home, you are safe and cared for (any of you at SUFA, yes you too Charlie, can contact me and come stay here) until things get to a point where you can return and deal with the situation. You can create a stockpile of enough food for you, your family, and a partner family so that if either of you is stricken, the other is prepared to cover both families.

Most of these options require something that we haven’t had in quite a while. Something that allowed those at the beginning of this country to survive and eventually prosper. Something that most in the cities, New York being a prime example, have virtually eliminated altogether.

A sense of community.

Too often this sense of community is born out of a disaster. People will rally to one another in a time of crisis because, in general, people are usually pretty compassionate when it gets down to it. But after the disaster is TOO LATE! That sense of community before a disaster struck could have saved lives and made it easier on everyone. But we are all too busy in our own lives to foster that community. And we are all so eager to prove how “tough” we are that we often spend time flexing instead of trying to understand each other and forcing ourselves to become a valuable member of that community. I don’t say this as a proud example of the valued member. I say this as the arrogant one who for many years didn’t see the value in a sense of community.

So let me tell you all right now. Your local community is where it matters. Politically, personally, and when a crisis comes, in terms of survival. If you want to put yourself in the best possible situation for the unexpected disaster that WILL come to your community one day in some form, start becoming a part of your community. Enough of my community PSA…

So… who did “wrong” in this Sandy situation? Lots of people. Those who did nothing to prepare until the last minute.. were wrong. Plan with your community, prepare by having a plan, having provisions for a week and all those other things that the “preppers” do. Failing to do so is simply foolish. And if you are in hardship for that first week because you didn’t prepare and you could have, then I don’t feel as bad for you. What is that old saying? Failure to properly plan on your part does not constitute and emergency on my part. That isn’t to say “screw you.” You will get help but you absolutely fall below others on my list. You are well below those who are in a situation that they couldn’t prepare for (of which Sandy provided a plethora).

Those who were in an area where they were told to evacuate and chose to ignore those warnings… were wrong. I am not talking about poor people who had nowhere to go and no money to just pick up and leave. I am talking about middle class people with families and friends elsewhere who could have swallowed their pride and got out of the way of this storm. Mrs. Weapon and I have friends in Wilmington (where I actually met Charlie while visiting some of those friends). There is a standing offer to them that when the big storms are coming, they should get out of the way and come here. For those that could have gotten out of the way and chose not to, I don’t feel as bad for you. Again, it isn’t screw you. But you also fall below the others on my list.

Now this is not the ghost of Ayn Rand saying it’s all about me and screw everyone else. It is a recognition that those who CAN properly prepare but who choose NOT to do so are not real high on my priority list of who I think should get taken care of.

We must realize, more importantly, that there are many who couldn’t have possibly prepared for what happened. Houses floating away are a great example. But so are many of the poor who don’t have family or friends outside of the city they live in (and while those of us who are world traveled find that amazingly unlikely, you should meet my sisters who have never left my hometown. They have me and my father out of the area. No one else). Those people had nowhere to go. And they didn’t have the money to simply drive inland and get a hotel for a week or two. There are elderly who simply cannot travel easily and who also happen to have all their family living ten states away. No one in their family thought it was that important to drive twenty hours each way to get grandma from her 35 story building in Manhattan. What could happen to her there in a hurricane?

It is important to remember that this shitty economy we bitch and complain and blame each other’s party for is a bitter reality for a lot of people, no matter who is really at fault (even though we know it is the Dems fault 😉  ). They don’t have a job and wonder how they will feed their family next week in a normal situation. So we cannot expect them to have two weeks worth of food sitting around or expect them to afford to just pick up and leave town. And while we smugly point out that cities that consistently elect Democrats do so because there are so many on the government dole there, we should remember that those cities (hello, New York) have so many on the government dole there because they have higher concentrations of working poor.

And THAT folks, is where we come to the proper role of government. I completely agree that it is horrible that there are so many people who will do nothing to properly prepare themselves for potential disasters. And a nanny-state government has done plenty to enable that mentality. But you have to stop and think about where we are. In THIS country, we are supposed to care for those least able to care for themselves. Refusing to do what we can to help those in the afflicted area is akin to seeing a person lying in the road and driving right on by. Sure maybe they are a dumbass who got hit because they were walking in the middle of the road. But that doesn’t mean we won’t stop and help them. That would be heartless. Is that who we are as a country? Is that who YOU are? Of course not. I don’t think anyone at SUFA is that person.

Which is why, when we talk and debate and argue about the proper role of government, we should never, ever disagree that emergency relief and aid to those most in need is absolutely within the proper role. It isn’t just what we should try to do. It is what we are compelled to do. When the shit hits the fan, fair friends, we are ALL dependent on each other. If you don’t believe that you are in some way dependent on others, you are living in fantasy land (and you will NOT be invited to my group when the zombie apocalypse hits). We can argue about many things, but this should not be one of them. I don’t care WHY person A is now stranded without power and without food with a winter blizzard potentially closing in. I don’t care WHY grandma is stuck on the 25th floor without her medication or working toilets. It is our duty to do what we can to help them out of immediate danger.

Because that is who we are.

There are so many things that we can argue over whether the government should be doing them, but this isn’t one of them. When there is a “private”relief agency receiving enough charitable donations to provide what FEMA and the Federal government can provide in terms of resources and capabilities, I will concede we should at least have a discussion about whether it can be done better by someone else. But until that time, THIS is the proper role of government. In fact it is more the proper role of government than building roads, levying taxes, accepting treaties, or most of the other things most agree with. This is about being a human being who has the ability to help another human being. And right now, the most effective way to help is the government. I hate that this is the case, but it simply is.

So I absolutely advocate doing whatever we can for the millions of people who have been affected by this storm who couldn’t possibly have done anything to better prepare for what was coming. Because I think there are far more of them than we would like to think.

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Comments

  1. Technically it’s the role of charities which have largely been squeezed out by government (either by removing available funding via taxation or monopolizing the services). But it is one of the least objectionable government functions as we stand today.

  2. Just A Citizen says:

    USW

    Well done my friend. However, you are very, very wrong.

    This is no different than many other things we claim is “the proper role of govt” when in fact it is not. We accept that as some fact because of our conditioning and our misunderstanding of what Govt is.

    Go back to the definition. “The monopoly on the use of force within a geographic area”. So please explain how a “monopoly on the use of force” has a proper role in Search and Rescue.

    One of the many fallacies tied to this theory is the notion that the Federal Govt has “more resources”. They do not. There are more resources available among the millions of private citizens and the various businesses in this country than ALL the govt agencies combined.

    The truth is that we rely on Govt out of HABIT. One I might add that did not exist until part way into the last century. The worst thing is that the very COMMUNITY you describe is diluted by the Govt itself. We EXPECT someone from the Govt to come. So we DO NOT spend time organizing VOLUNTEER groups or developing plans.

    Now that said, we must deal with the REAL world. With REALITY itself. Which means we live in a Society that BELIEVES the same as you have stated. So we must operate within that paradigm, at least for now. To that extent the maximum effort should be placed on LOCAL Govt, not the Federal. In fact, the Federal is not really needed at all. Not in this day and age.

    Well perhaps there is one caveat to that claim. That is the military, which is a legitimate Govt role. The National Guard and Regular Service have some things in greater abundance that may be needed. AIRCRAFT capable of RESCUE and MOVING HEAVY LOADS. For example, utility trucks were flown from California to New York on military transports.

    The only reason that FEMA exists is to create a unified command and logistics operation for ALL Govt AGENCIES. Now think about that and how dealing with our OTHER CRISIS might impact future Federal Emergency Response. Less employees means weaker future response, means more reliance on State and Local groups.
    FEMA DOES NOT SUPPLY all the people and material in Emergencies. They rely on other agencies, including Federal, State, County and City. For example, there are currently thousands of Federal Employees working 12 hour shifts 24/7 cutting there way towards New York City and New Jersey. Cutting as in removing trees and other debris from roads, rail lines and power lines. They started in Connecticut and West Virginia. Places that many in the media seem to have forgotten were seriously impacted as well. And, which is connected to New York and New Jersey via the transportation network.

    These thousand or so folks could just as easily be private citizens. FEMA could be replaced with a group organized by and paid for by, and controlled by the States directly. The reason we rely on the agency people instead is because they are “organized and trained”. They come with command and control structure. But this also could be applied to volunteer groups.

    A prime example is the Baptist Groups from Texas that were so darn good in the Rita response. Those same “VOLUNTEER” groups are currently engaged all over the Sandy damage area. And early reports are they once again are outshining Red Cross and other “official govt” groups.

    By the way, there is an estimated 20,000 people engaged through FEMA right now on the emergency efforts.

    Now I am going to have to disagree with one other point you made and one which Charlie pounded on the other day. It IS POSSIBLE to plan for your house washing away. If you live near and ocean or a river it is critical that you DO PLAN for such an event. Planning involves VARIOUS SCENARIOS. You can plan for them all and take action accordingly.

    Those people who have been hit by the economy would have been prepared if they had prepared when times were good. The fact is that most people just don’t think it will happen. Because “I have never seen it like this in my lifetime”.

    Here is where we do agree. The fact they did not prepare or were not prepared properly is no reason to ignore their needs. Although I wouldn’t want to be the one to tell some young wife and her child that her husband died trying to rescue somebody who refused to evacuate when ordered to do so. You see, we often forget that those doing the RESCUING are people also. They have families also. They have lives and plans also. When someone deliberately places themselves in jeopardy, they will cause these people to place their own lives on the line. Because that is what THEY do.

    Does it stop us from trying to help them anyway? No, nor should it. But it sure does tick me off at times. Especially when all the whining and media carping begins in full force. I have to remind myself that most people are not like the ones they put on TV for us to see on the evening news.

    By the way, I think it is more than just our sense of Community that has been lost or at least misplaced. It is also our ability to comprehend disasters and other calamities. We have become soft, lazy and complacent. This leads to lack of planning and preparation.

    One last comment and this is regarding Ayn Rand. Probably more for Charlie than you but since you also brought her up, figured I needed to address the issue. Just so there is no mistake, there is NOTHING in her philosophy that would support the idea that we should turn our back on people who were not prepared. While her prime ethic was one of SELFISHNESS that did not mean that we should live in isolation or not help our fellow citizens when they are in need.

    Best to you and your family. It has been awhile since we chatted. I hope all is well.

    JAC

  3. Just A Citizen says:

    SUFA

    Short side note. You folks noticing all the complaints about the automated voting machines during “early voting”.

    Many reports of people voting Romney and the machine recording Obama. The election judges said it would be fixed and allowed those who noticed to vote again. They said there was a “calibration” problem with the machines.

    Calibration problem??? You freaken kiddin me? Either it records the choice or it does not. How does that require “calibration”.

    Also, there has been something seriously wrong with all the polling results this past month. The specifics of each poll favor Romney in a big way. But the total of the very same polls show Obama in the lead. So how can all the parts be one way and the total the other???

    I see one of three possibilities.

    1. The internals are messed up.
    2. The Totals are messed up.
    3. The Voters are seriously messed up.

    I’m ;picking Number 3.

    And with that I bid you all a good night.
    🙂

  4. I’ve read a little about the aftermath of the ’06 SF Earthquake. There was one army general that basically conscripted all available men to start manually clearing the streets so vehicles could move around the city or what was left of it. He was roundly criticized for overstepping his authority afterwards but got the job done. I lived outside of Boston during the Feb. ’78 blizzard that shut the city and surrounding burbs down for a week. We had 30″ of snow plus drifts. I was living in an apartment complex at the time and actually had just moved in. I had not had the chance to stock up on groceries. By noon the following day, we had the apartment complex shoveled out. It was all hand work but cars could move around in the complex. It was 2 more days before the streets where opened and another 2 before we could actually drive on them. This all happened because we organized ourselves and got the job done rather than wait for heavy equipment.

    When Katrina happened, I too was disappointed that the Feds did not get into the city soon enough to help the stranded. By day 4 a news crew had gotten to the convention center which I have visited many times. What they showed was most discouraging. People were sitting around whining about lack of rescue efforts. There were no bond fires to boil water. No one had built a still. It did not appear that there had been any scavenger parties sent out to find canned food. At that point I stopped feeling sorry for these people.

    I remember one story after the Joplin, MO tornado. They showed a family that within days had already started rebuilding their house. The did not wait for permits, inspectors, government of any kind. Shelter in the north is critical for survival during the winter. The pioneers knew and understood this. That is why they built housing rapidly when first arriving in a new area. Unfortunately government is now so involved in construction that most people are fearful of tackling the job without first kowtowing the authorities. I always swore, if my family in the Midwest were directly hit by a tornado, that I would pack up the truck with a tent, food and tools. We would have shelter in thirty days, government be damned.

  5. Good Morning All 🙂

    Interesting commentary about Sandy. I would not turn away folks in need after a natural disaster, no matter how dumb they were, but they would at least learn the importance of preparation and responsibility. Do I feel sorry for those who have been directly affected, sure I do. They should get the help they need to get back on thier feet. Now, USW claims that you cannot prepare for your house floating away. I say bulldookie, if anything, haven’t we learned that building near an ocean prone to hurricanes puts one in the position to being washed away? YES, we have, but time and time again, people rebuild close to the ocean, and then whine when there house is floating down the road. Answer, don’t build so close to the ocean, and you lesson your chances of having your house float away.

    Nobody is truly prepared for a house fire. Insurance is your best bet there (not talking about wild fires).

    On a lighter note, many of you will vote for who you think will screw you less for the next 4 years. Have fun and good luck, should be entertaining tonight. Will there be riots? My father will be voting for Romney.

    Peace!

  6. Good job, USW. You said what should’ve been said here all along. Poking fun at those in need is just, well, cowardly … you made way more valid points than I did (said what I wanted to if I wasn’t so emotionally 🙂 upset at the nastiness heaped on someone who lost his/her house.

    Now, remember today is election day … and dogs are people too!

    • Yes! Dog for president (he will do a better job)

    • ” Poking fun at those in need is just, well, cowardly”
      http://www.amazon.com/Sterno-Single-Burner-Folding-Stove/dp/B000OD158E
      (ducking & running)

      • What’s a Life of Illusion without a duck and run?

        🙂

        Hey, you never responded to my post about your more invalid than valid points (I don’t think) … Come on, Man!

        • Charlie,

          No I did not respond. Could be the turn-off for being called a coward. I do not post openly here and do not intend to, schoolyard taunting will not alter that. I do not think we will agree and do not think you gave my points any consideration or discussion. I have been personally impacted by tornado’s. I live here by choice, so know the risk. We get minutes or seconds of warning. The Sandy victims had days to hours. When the weather gets ugly, we stock up on water, peanut butter & crackers. I have kids so it doesn’t go to waste anyway. This does not alter my point, this is a simple thing nearly anyone could do, but many did not. Sterno. I have camped out & cooked on such a stove. It works! You may not be happy but you can cook nearly any canned good on such a camp stove. You can survive for weeks like this & be better off than those with nothing waiting for rescue. I think the mind-set is the big thing. I expect to risk tornado strikes or ice storms every year. I know there will be power outages and have prepared. It’s hard to compare that to a hundred year storm.

          So what was you mind-set? What did you expect to happen to you VS what did happen? What did you do to prepare? What will you do differently in the future? Anything you can do for the N’Easter? What do you think of naming a dog Roofie?

  7. USW,
    I tend to err to the side of supporting emergency services in government, but vastly more so local than federal. Federal deployment of the National Guard makes sense, unarmed but well trained and tough men to get in an help people. FEMA just does not make sense. Hoover was demonized for his laissez faire ways during disasters, but the most successful recovery in the Mississippi, Louisiana area was when he called for businesses to help and did little more than help encourage and organize people across the country to pitch in. The rebuild was vastly superior. If FEMA was a specialized group designed to go in and fix the immediate issues only, I would support it. It is not. In fact, that one arena it is quite seems to be what FEMA is worst at. As for the first part of your post, I wholeheartedly agree. That sense of community not only prepares people and opens the hearts and minds to each other in disaster, it opens it all the time, making the community more unified and helpful all the time. Furthermore, it makes people more involved and less divided in politics and deciding who will lead them. And if all communities did this, it tends to also increase the goodwill and caring from other communities toward the ones impacted. We need to be about helping our neighbor all the time. It is ultimately not the government’s job, that is just passing the buck and removing the sense of community. For the immediate moment, however, I do agree that we should support emergency efforts, I just would not go so far as to say it is the job of government, that, sir, is a trap.

    • Or you can let them rot … that would teach them, no?

      Unbelievable … absolutely unbelievable …

      • You are the king of false dichotomy. FEMA IS letting them rot because they are incompetent. You would rather let them rot so long as there is a government organization that is SUPPOSED to be helping them? Why, it makes you feel less guilty for not helping yourself? FEMA is not doing the job they were intended to do, so I propose a superior alternative. In the absence of one, I specifically said I support what we have, I just don’t like giving the responsibility over completely. If we don’t hand over the responsibility, then it means we are more likely to pitch in and help fill in the gaps that the inept FEMA is leaving gaping open. Seriously, its like you care more about your ideal of government handling things than you do for the people that are actually hurting!

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Jon

          Why do you say FEMA is letting them rot and that they are incompetent?

          What do you think is FEMA’s responsibility?

          • FEMA is supposed to do planning and preparation for impending and potential disasters, put together resources and prepare for deployment during a disaster, then provide that assistance to survivors immediately after. They are, quite literally, the emergency response team. And they suck at it. The National Guard did a better job at response and assistance before FEMA existed. The organization level, resource allocation, coordination, and deployment, actual direct assistance, as well as ability to coordinate with other people helping, be it other government agencies, state and local government, private businesses and individuals, charities, etc. has been notoriously lousy and bureaucratic. They were a big reason for the death toll in the aftermath of Katrina, and they are not doing much better in NY from what I have seen.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Jon

              I see the problem. FEMA is not supposed to do the things you think they do.

              They are NOT the emergency response team. That is why the public chastises FEMA for failing when FEMA is not the one that failed. This belief that they are some Centralized Agency with massive resources sitting around waiting for a disaster is a MYTH. A modern day urban legend.

              They do not do planning and prep. They assist with planning and prep at the State and Local level. The participate in drills with those other levels.

              Yes, they “coordinate” but that depends on the State and Local level getting them the ORDERS and the INFORMATION so they can coordinate.

              They fail because people are wrong about what it is and what it is supposed to do. So they sit and wait for FEMA. But THAT FEMA does not exist, so it never arrives, further confirming in our mind that FEMA is a failure.

              Did you take notice of D13’s comment the other day? FEMA is NOT a RESCUE agency.

              FEMA does have a very big role but it is not the one most people recognize. They are the agency through which massive amounts of money is funneled to the State and Local level during the rescue and recovery process. But they are not necessarily the ones that hand that money to the recipient. They hand it to someone else who does that.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Jon

              Yes, that is what they say, but what is missed is that FEMA is not a STAND ALONE entity that does all that stuff. It is part of the accumulation of all State, Local and other Federal Agencies. Like the Conductor of the Symphony.

              FEMA = Federal Emergency MANAGEMENT Agency. See……..MANAGEMENT………..not RESPONSE………not RESCUE.

              The failures you see on the news today are almost certainly failures at some local level. Or simply misplaced expectations of those affected.

              So if everyone thinks FEMA is a failure what they are really condemning is the concept of ANY effort to centralize management or coordination of emergency response. Because the FEMA of today is far, far, far, better than the FEMA that existed during Katrina.

              As of yesterday I was given an estimate of over 20,000 people responding to Sandy and falling under FEMA coordination.

              Did you know that FEMA coordination is not done by FEMA employees alone? The nerve center is manned by people from those agencies who are responding to the emergency. Each coordinating their own people with those of other agencies, State, Local and Contractors.

              • Then I should amend my statement to “FEMA has incompetent marketing people.”

                Seriously, the misguided politicization of FEMA and federal involvement of emergency response, combined with FEMA’s own media people has lead to this impression, and it has lead to false expectations that lead to more problems. On top of that, it still fails in emergency response compared to emergency response prior to FEMA’s existence, at least as far as I can tell from the information I have found, tho some of that may be tainted by misguided expectation also.

        • Seriously, calm your jets, son. Wouldn’t it be nice if the Army could pitch in more than just the reserves? Imagine how helpful our army could be rather than getting killed and maimed in Afgahnistan for no good reason the planet … that would be government help too … imagine, people working for the government for the betterment of the people … and we (my wife and I) have no problem putting money towards FEMA, wether it’s in the form of taxes or contributions … workers of the world unite! (but please, use your real names when doing so) … 🙂

          • All for that Charlie, if this president and the last in particular, but many more before that, did not have our people meddling all over the world, more than just the reserves would be available to help. 🙂

            People of the world should unite, workers or not. I do not have a big issue with paying taxes for emergency services, tho I would like to see some logistics that are at least as good as what I can come up with in an afternoon if they want to be worth my tax dollars.

            And I do use my real name Mr. Opera.

            • And here I thought Smith was something generic … but I’m pretty sure everyone here knows who I am … it wouldn’t take much to click on that name of mine (my third crime novel, by the way — so feel free to buy 100 copies and support a socialist writer so he doesn’t have to leach off you in some other way some day) …:)

              Go Bills!

  8. OK Black Flag. I’ll play today:

  9. Just A Citizen says:

    BUCK

    re: “I dunno — in one video I saw, the guy literally greeted the voter and opened the door for her. Not very threatening if you ask me.”

    Whether you or they perceive a threat is irrelevant. The issue is having ANY group staged at the doorway of a voting location.

    Imagine several men in white sheets, opening doors and greeting everyone with happy faces.

    That is why virtually every State and County has rules about groups and other folks being within some specified distance of a polling place.

    You seemed to support the expulsion of Republican Poll Watchers but condone the presence of an organized group with a Single Party affiliation opening the doors. Seems to me you are being very contradictory in where you draw the line.

    The perception of fraud is a serious matter. You can say it is not fraud but if observers are thrown out of the polling place and only ONE party gets to run the show, they HOW DO YOU KNOW IF NO FRAUD OCCURRED?

    If these perceptions are not addressed people on each side become suspicious and then convinced that they are being screwed. The DEMS have done just that this cycle with spreading fear of “disenfranchisement”. Just yesterday making a big deal out of Republican Poll Watchers focusing on “Minority Precincts”. These stories were designed to make “minorities” and “lefties” think that somehow the R’s were “intimidating” people and “trying to steal the election”. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was not the cause of the Poll Watchers being removed from those precincts in Philly.

    Yet all they are allowed to do, by law, is WATCH.

    • Who said I supported the expulsion of Republican Poll Watchers?

      Though to be fair, there is surly a difference between an actual political party being present and members of a group who may happen to vote “GOP” or “DEM” being present. But again, who said I supported the expulsion of Republican Poll Watchers?

      • I am … toss their asses to the wind! NBC just reported on a machine that switched a vote in PA from Obama to Romney. WTF? Replacement officials?

        • I read of polling stations in PA turning people away for not having a voter ID….sigh….

          By the way, voted this morning — showed up, gave the volunteer my name, signed the little book, went into the booth, voted, and left. No ID required whatsoever.

          • My boss lives in PA and she was asked for ID. She refused to show it. She’s African-American … therefore, toss the GOP poll checkers out on their asses already.

            • Was she able to vote at least?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              charlie

              The GOP Poll Watchers have NOTHING to do with checking for ID.

              How typical a response from you, however. Throw them out. Use some form of Force or Intimidate them.

              The voting machine problem has been occurring during early voting and has favored Obama. Where was the indignation then?

              • JAC, how typical a response from you! I was shit stirring, my overly paranoid friend. Poking you in the ribs (for Christ’s sake) … having fun … I could care less who wins tonight; half of me wants Obama (because the through of yous in here and those at FOX celebrating makes me upchuck my pablum) and half of me wants Romney (because of what Obama did to labor) … either one will accomplish squat for the people and continue to protect the 1% and capitalism … Jill Stein for President! Go Jill … and she rhymes with Bill … Jills/Bills … Let’s go Mets!

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Buck

          Seemed to me that was what you were doing when you simply blew it off and responded with “fear of fraud is not fraud”.

          Sorry if I mistook you intentions. If you do not support such a thing then why did you not come right out and say so.

          All POLL WATCHERS are Political Party affiliates. So there is nothing new or wrong about them being there. They do not open doors or greet voters.

          They are court appointed because they must understand and agree to the rules of NOT ENGAGING Voters. You would not even be able to identify them in the polling place if you didn’t understand how the system works.

          Unlike your benign fellow holding the door for everyone, with his Panther hat.

          • Please explain this to me: What exactly is the issue with having someone who belongs to any group from being present at a polling station?

            If you have no problem with a Republican (or Democratic) Poll Watcher, then you should similarly have no problem with someone who belongs to the “Black Panthers” or any other group from being present as well.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Buck

              I have not problem with it if they go through the same hoops and follow the same rules. If they are Court Approved.

              That means, by the way, that they cannot wear clothing or pins/badges etc denoting their party, a candidate or any organization affiliated with the election. So your Panther would have to lose the hat and any markings showing him to be a panther.

              And of course, he would not be allowed to hold the door and greet voters.

  10. Interesting-makes a lot of sense to me but then I’m a Conservative who only leans libertarian. 🙂 what say everyone else.

    Randy Barnett: The Mistake That Is the Libertarian Party
    Voting the LP line could swing the election to the Democrats. That’s not an outcome libertarians should hope for.

    By RANDY E. BARNETT

    In 1972, the Libertarian Party nominated University of Southern California philosophy Prof. John Hospers as its first presidential candidate and ran Tonie Nathan for vice president. When Roger MacBride, a Virginia Republican elector pledged to Richard Nixon, voted instead for Hospers-Nathan, he cast the first electoral vote in American history for a woman. The Libertarian Party was off and running. In 1976, it nominated the renegade elector as its presidential candidate.

    As a young libertarian, I was very enthusiastic about the formation of the Libertarian Party. I proudly cast my vote for Roger MacBride for president. I attended the 1975 national convention in New York that nominated him. But, while I am as libertarian today as I was then, I have come to believe that the Libertarian Party was a mistake.

    The reason is simple. Unlike a parliamentary system in which governments are formed by coalitions of large and small parties, our electoral system is a first-past-the-post, winner-take-all one in which a winning presidential candidate just needs to get more than 50% of the vote. This means each contending “major” party is itself a coalition that needs to assemble enough diverse voting groups within it to get to 51%. Hence the need to appeal to the so-called moderates and independents rather than the more “extreme” elements within.

    To the extent that a third party is successful, it will drain votes from the coalition party to which it is closest and help elect the coalition party that is further removed from its interests. The Libertarian Party’s effort will, if effective, attract more libertarian voters away from the candidate who is marginally less hostile to liberty, and help hand the election to the candidate who is more hostile to liberty.

    Fortunately, because this drawback is so obvious, the Libertarian Party’s presidential vote has remained minuscule. (It was about 0.4% in 2008, though it could cost Mitt Romney the electoral votes of New Hampshire this time around). Most libertarian voters resist the party’s call, even when, as this year, it has nominated a good man like Gary Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico.

    Some have defended the LP by saying it is an expressive outlet for political libertarians, as distinct from more intellectual or policy types. Here too the LP has been counterproductive. By drawing libertarian politicos from both major parties, the LP makes these parties less libertarian at the margin than they would otherwise be. In each major-party coalition, the libertarian element is weaker precisely to the extent that libertarian politicos are expending their energies on behalf of the LP.

    Libertarian activists should choose whichever party they feel more comfortable working within. That’s what Ron Paul did. Likewise, Rand Paul has brought his libertarianism inside the GOP tent. The small-“l” libertarians in the tea party movement identified the Republican Party as the coalition closest to their concerns about fiscal responsibility and the growth of government power, and they have gone about making the GOP more libertarian from the grass-roots up. They have moved the party in a libertarian direction, as has the Republican Liberty Caucus.

    Despite all this, some libertarians continue to insist that, because the Republican and Democrats are equally bad for liberty, it makes no difference who gets elected. However true this once was, in recent years Republicans have been better for liberty and Democrats have been worse.

    It was a Democratic Congress and president who gave us the federal takeover of the health-care industry that will bring us closer to a Western European-style social democracy. All four Democratic-appointed Supreme Court justices voted to uphold ObamaCare as constitutional, with four Republican-appointed dissenters.

    Are Democrats better than Republicans on personal liberty? Neither has been great on that score, but Democrats have been the bigger disappointment. When I took the medical-marijuana case to the Supreme Court in 2004, I got zero votes from the left side of the court while garnering the votes of Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justices Clarence Thomas and Sandra Day O’Connor. And President Obama’s Justice Department has reneged on his campaign promise to refrain from going after medical-marijuana dispensaries.

    Neither party wants to question the futile and destructive “war on drugs.” But Republicans have been much better on free speech in recent years. With respect to economic liberty, the Environmental Protection Agency has restricted land use throughout the nation and would do more if not stopped. Dodd-Frank has amped up restrictions on financial services.

    Libertarians need to adjust their tactics to the current context. This year, their highest priority should be saving the country from fiscal ruin, arresting and reversing the enormous growth in federal power—beginning with repealing ObamaCare—and pursuing a judiciary who will actually enforce the Constitution. Which party is most likely to do these things in 2013?

    Citing the Republican Congress under George W. Bush, some libertarians contend that divided government is best for liberty. Yes, divided government is good for stopping things (until some grand deal is made). But divided government won’t repeal ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank or give us better judges.

    Libertarian activists need to set aside their decades-old knee-jerk reactions to the two major parties, roll up their sleeves, and make the Republican and Democratic parties more libertarian. When it comes to voting, libertarians need to get serious about liberty and give up on the Libertarian Party. Nov. 6 would be a good day to start.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203922804578080684214526670.html

  11. Just A Citizen says:

    Something I have tried to say before and that will be applicable beginning tomorrow:

    November 6 • Daniel J. Sanchez

    Office-seeking is a dead-end road. Principled promotion of ideological change is the way forward. Once libertarian ideas take hold and sweep through the ranks of the thoughtful set, there will be no need for access to the halls of power. The parasitic state will slough off of society like so much dead skin.

  12. Just A Citizen says:

    FEMA

    For those who have the time and curiosity to get deep in the weeds.

    http://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nrf/nrf-core.pdf

  13. Just A Citizen says:

    As I have said before, sometimes the whole thing deserves to be posted here at SUFA.

    The U.S. Election is a Referendum on Civilization
    By Daren Jonescu

    That the election of November 6, 2012, has the potential to be a definitive moment in American history is now almost a truism. This conception may sound overblown to the ignorant and disengaged, but in fact it is a great understatement. As America is the only nation left in which freedom is still on the ballot, this definitive U.S. election means even more, in truth, than most voters may realize. It is a referendum on the survival of modern civilization.

    A recent blog post at the Weekly Standard displays the results of a BBC election poll taken in various countries around the world. The results demonstrate that if the rest of the world were allowed to vote, Barack Obama would win in a Saddam-like landslide.

    Throughout what is left of the civilized world, Obama’s superiority to Mitt Romney, and in general Democrats’ superiority to Republicans, is the default assumption, regarded as beyond question. One who objects to that opinion has a lot of explaining to do. And one who dares to admit thinking the United States of America a very agreeable proposition is regarded as either an infidel or a dope.

    These two presuppositions — that the Democrats are the good guys, and that America is essentially a bad thing — should always be understood as a pair. Together, they reveal exactly what the modern Democratic Party and the American media have spent decades trying to hide from their fellow citizens — namely, that to prefer the Democrats is to dislike America.

    That international landslide of support for Obama is a clue to what this U.S. election represents to that minority of us among foreigners who understand what anti-Americanism really means. Other nations have their advantages — Korea’s low tax rates have helped her to grow from third-world to top-tier economy in little more than a generation; Canada’s banking system weathered the 2008 recession better than America’s — but there is only one nation in which individual freedom is regarded not as a “system” or a “policy,” but as a pre-political principle, a true foundation. If you share this principle, then America is, at present, your only practical hope for the future of mankind.

    But what is “America” to such a foreigner? The classic comprehensive answer to that question is Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy in America. The worthiest recent attempt at an answer is probably Mark Steyn’s After America. Tocqueville surveyed the American scene during the flawed, faltering glory of the nation’s rise. Steyn’s analysis, by contrast, is a (barely) premature autopsy.

    What these two books, and other contributions to the tradition Tocqueville began, have in common is their shared theme: freedom.

    Great nations cannot be understood independently of the defining spiritual impulse that creates and propels them. Any worthwhile analysis of ancient Greek civilization, for example, must contribute to our understanding of the central theme of Greece: the flowering of the human soul. The long history of the Greek world, seen from the outside, embodies the process whereby humanity came into its own. At last, representation became art — man’s attempt to understand his relationship to the divine, to other men, and to himself; and knowledge evolved from an acceptance of ancient rules and customs into a submission of nature’s and man’s rules to the rigors of rational inquiry.

    Comparable themes will be found in the examination of any of history’s great nations. An outsider, either historically or geopolitically, can sometimes perceive the arc of a nation’s grand theme — and the risks that endanger the development of the theme — more easily than men presently traveling that arc. Thus, the foreigner’s perspective on the nation’s problems is sometimes more “global” — not in Obama’s sense of reducing a great nation to just another tick on the U.N. roster, but rather in the sense of seeing what the world stands to lose should this nation fall.

    In America’s case, once again, the theme is freedom — the purposeful application of the notion of the inviolability of the individual to the establishment of a civil society.

    The foreigner’s perspective on this is peculiar — privileged precisely as it is deficient. Citizens are positioned to see more clearly the “small war,” the growth pains inherent in the development — and the death pangs inherent in the downfall — of their society. An outsider, if he is thoughtful, open, and respectful of his subject, can sometimes catch sight of a crystal that perhaps is seen more easily from beyond. (This is not to say that serious citizens cannot make the intellectual leap to that bird’s-eye view, too. The enormous popularity of Mark Levin’s Liberty and Tyranny is a testament to that.)

    But in the case of America, the outsider (or new arrival) has another practical advantage — namely, an insight into the subtleties of decayed or extinguished liberty which may be overlooked by those still at an earlier stage of decline. Tocqueville, a Frenchman, saw firsthand how a revolution in the name of liberty and equality can produce an outcome far murkier than the promise implied in its noblest declarations. Thus, even in the obscurest minutiae of his travelogue of the American spirit, one senses the deep, satisfied inhalations of a man finding the fresh air he had spent his young life seeking without avail at home.

    Regarding today’s America, the foreigner has lived and can warn of the practical manifestations of Tocqueville’s chillingly accurate speculation about how a constitutional republic might give way to tyranny — to what Tocqueville famously calls “soft despotism.”

    It is no accident, for example, that Steyn, a Canadian, has been perhaps the strongest, most relentless voice over these past few years on the dangers of ObamaCare. I, too, have returned to health care again and again. To have lived in a socialized medical system is to have witnessed the heart of the stealthy darkness Tocqueville foresaw. Socialized medicine is the demise of individual liberty in the guise of “equal access,” a gluttonous economic shark masked as “affordability,” and a final denial of the dignity of all human life, euphemized as “universal care.”

    Government health care is a perfect microcosm of what real oppression will look like on a daily basis, an important and constantly needed reminder for people still hoping to preserve the idea of freedom in their own country. Those whose air has at least been perfumed with the (dissipating) vapors of genuine liberty all their lives can easily regard oppression as more foreign and strange than it really is. The natural tendency among citizens of “the land of the free” to identify tyranny primarily with the nightmare world of Kristallnacht or the Ukrainian forced famine has facilitated the efforts of freedom’s enemies to push America onto its current collision course with the more quotidian brutalities of “soft” oppression.

    Inhumanity always seems more distant from us than it really is, which is why a still-humane nation can be caught so flat-footed by its arrival, as America was by the rise of a mellifluous-toned, well-dressed son of communist revolutionaries and their fellow-travelers in the global caliphate movement.

    The lesson Americans most need to digest, and that many have had to learn the hard way, is one made plain and practical in the debate over government-run health care. As we who have lived it can attest, modern socialist oppression does not bring the secret police to your door. The old folks will not be rounded up. Rather, the tax collectors and regulators are at your door — all the time, intractably, until their omnipresence in your payslips and personal decisions feels so normal that you no longer question the loss of property rights and self-determination, and would even suspect or hate the man who would propose to remove that smothering security blanket.

    As for the old folks, they become the subject of a neat and tidy cost-benefit analysis, cared for just as long as budgetary considerations permit, while their families are provided with a clean, guilt-free break from one of family life’s chief raisons d’être and responsibilities, in the form of “palliative care” — i.e., the death panel’s debt collector.

    As Tocqueville predicted to grim perfection, modern man will not easily submit to a yoke under the threat of harm, but he will do so all too easily under the promise of a life without anxiety or inconvenience.

    Liberty is too great a good to be relinquished knowingly. Americans will always be prepared to defend against direct threats to their freedom. But through its great gifts of material prosperity, peaceful coexistence, and the near-universalization of the luxury of leisure — in the Aristotelian sense of the practical opportunity to pursue happiness — liberty tends to promote a character of optimism and good faith that leaves a free people prey to those who, frustrated with the limits of self-development, seek to realize their wills through coercion.

    Old-style violent uprisings would never work in a free nation. Modern enemies of freedom have had to devise more cunning means to their ends. (Witness Bill Ayers.) And so they have: producing a morally and intellectually corrupting lexicon that bears a superficial resemblance to the language of freedom (progress, individuality, positive “rights”); instituting vast property-annihilating programs in the name of creating “opportunity” and “justice”; and tarting up the class warfare methods of the Bolsheviks with the soothing vocabulary of “the middle class,” thus slowly enticing liberty down the white-picket-fenced path to death by regulatory bureaucracy.

    This last point is the vital warning from America’s foreign friends, from Tocqueville to the present. Yes, defeating Barack Obama is necessary; he and his backers are the most highly-placed “enemy within” that America has ever faced. On the other hand, the climate that made Obama possible was more than a momentary case of white guilt, media complicity, Bush-fatigue, or Muslim Brotherhood subterfuge. A very substantial percentage of Americans have been tranquilized by the soporific spell of “left vs. right” party politics, which induces a belief in the legitimacy of all views that do not directly deny your right to vote, as though freedom were reducible to the maintenance of periodic elections. (Every nation has periodic elections.)

    Why did supposed conservatives, such as David Brooks and Peggy Noonan, support Barack Obama in 2008? Brooks’ famous rumination on Obama’s well-creased pant leg speaks volumes. For Brooks, seeming “presidential” was enough. Being presidential, in the American sense of that term — preserving the Constitution, espousing the principle of limited government, and believing that the defense of America as a land of liberty is his defining role — is no longer even part of the equation for Brooks, for his readers, or, apparently, for tens of millions of Americans on “both sides of the aisle.”

    Treating leftist authoritarianism as one side of the nation’s healthy political debate is by definition a violation of the American founding. Socialism cannot be put into practice to any degree without violating the Declaration’s primary rights and the Constitution’s delineations of the role of government. By allowing leftist policy to metastasize through all branches of the federal government for generations, a large portion of the population — including, sadly, many who see themselves as conservatives — have unwittingly forsaken most of what America, as a philosophical idea, stands for.

    The leftist regulatory apparatus is already woven so thoroughly into American life — redefining and delimiting America beyond the reach of the Founding Fathers, let alone of any elected official — that the sturdiest, most clear-eyed Americans of this moment have come to see the election of a new president as merely one small victory in what must be a long, almost unwinnable war. Their perception is accurate.

    The idea which we now call “individualism” was not born in America. Nor was the goal of political liberty. Nevertheless, these two principles have died in every other country on Earth. There is no other nation in which these grand ideas have remained an essential part of either the political system or the moral code. It may be difficult for an American to see what this means to those of us abroad who share these ideas.

    It means this: America is the last practical refuge of our hopes. In every other nation, to advocate for individual liberty, to plead for property rights, or to speak out against socialism’s inherent violation of the foundations of civilization is increasingly to brand oneself an unenlightened crank at best, and perhaps a sociopath. If American society completes its slow shift into that same perspective, then we are all doomed. If the American majority finally comes to absorb the view, already accepted as policy by the Department of Homeland Security, that “reverence of individual liberty” and “suspicion of centralized federal authority” are indicators of an antisocial threat, then there will literally be nowhere left on Earth where one is allowed to love freedom without ostracism, or worse. There will be nowhere left on Earth where Jefferson, Madison, or Washington may speak or be spoken of without ridicule.

    Thoughtful non-Americans know from experience and reasoning that livable conditions in their own nations will be sustained, if at all, only as long as America refrains from following the West’s oppressive path to regulatory oblivion and resists late modernity’s craving for the false comforts of “soft despotism.” Those comforts are false on two levels: first, they are gained by means of a gun aimed at you and everyone else; second, they will be short-lived. The last gasp of freedom means the loss of all the goods that only freedom can provide — prosperity, peace, leisure.

    A man is hanging from a cliff, with only his fingers still gripping solid rock. The prevailing impetus is all downward, but the man continues to dangle in one place as long as that grip holds out. If he lets go, however, his fall will be short and decisive.

    Modern civilization is that man. America is his final, desperate grip. On November 6, 2012, that man will either be left alone to continue his brave, heartbreaking struggle for another day, or a boot will come down on his fingers.

    I described America’s prospect as an “almost unwinnable war.” Dire as this may sound, there is actually something liberating in that little word, “almost.” The Tea Party is a testament to that feeling of liberation. Near-defeat brings priorities into focus. It sweeps away the smoke of the inessential, so that the path to the primary goal becomes clear.

    The first, nearly completed, step is to prevent that “almost” from becoming an “absolutely.”

  14. Exit polls showing big lead for Obama this afternoon, waiting for the Romney voters to get off work 🙂

  15. Just A Citizen says:

    Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!

    Onkar Ghate

    Senior fellow and vice president of intellectual leadership, The Ayn Rand Institute

    It’s no secret that the right is awash in Ayn Rand. Tea Partiers carry signs like “Who is John Galt?” and, astonishing for a novel published 55 years ago, sales of Atlas Shrugged topped 445,000 last year.

    All of this has prompted researchers like Yale historian Beverly Gage to wonder, “Why is there no liberal Ayn Rand?” Good question. Liberals today, Gage observes, have no long-term goals or vision, no big ideas, no canon.

    Here’s a radical thought. Instead of liberals dismissing Rand’s appeal to the American spirit of individualism and independence, as President Obama recently did in his Rolling Stone interview, why don’t liberals make Rand part of a new canon? Why let conservatives monopolize her?

    Rand herself I suspect would have welcomed this. In a talk in Boston in 1961, she lamented the fact that both liberals and conservatives were ideologically bankrupt, with too many liberals turning sympathetically to unlimited government and too many conservatives turning back to the Middle Ages. She was seeking to address, she said, “the ‘non-totalitarian liberals’ and the ‘non-traditional conservatives'” in the audience.

    Her message that night was the need for a principled, uncompromising fight for a moral ideal she thought long abandoned by both sides, the rights of the individual. This means life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness: your moral right to follow your own reasoned judgment in earning your way in the world and achieving your happiness.

    Religious conservatives like Paul Ryan have to distance themselves from Rand’s philosophy. Theirs is an inconsistent position. Ryan, for instance, wants to be seen as an advocate of individual rights while simultaneously making a mockery of a woman’s right to the pursuit of happiness by proposing to force her to bring a pregnancy to term even in the case of rape.

    Rand rejects such medievalism. Precisely because raising a child is a personal and immense undertaking, a woman must have the freedom to judge whether and when to have children. To equate an embryo with a human being, a potential with the actual, and then to declare the willful ending of a pregnancy murder, is to abandon reason and science in favor of mystical Church dogmas. No government, Rand argued, should have the power to dictate to a woman in such matters; it’s her life and her decision.

    The same principle — the individual’s moral right to his own life — put Rand on the side of other supposedly liberal causes: she was a staunch defender of free speech and immigration and a staunch opponent of racism. But this very principle led Rand to reject what too many liberal-leaning people seemingly dare not even question: the modern regulatory-welfare state.

    What in the end is the regulatory-welfare state but a massive and growing attempt to override our reasoned choices and decisions: to dictate to us whose permission we must obtain to drive a taxi or serve alcohol in a restaurant, what questions we’re allowed to ask in a job interview, whose health care we must pay for and in what way, how much we must “save” for retirement (which the government then proceeds to spend), and on and on and on.

    Take the case of but one regulatory agency, the FDA. The FDA wasn’t created to outlaw fraud, which was already illegal. It exists to tell us which drugs we can buy, companies which drugs they can sell, how those drugs must be tested and how manufactured. What if people rationally disagree with the government’s dictates? What if a company thinks it has developed a better way of testing for efficacy or an unconventional but superior manufacturing process? What if a patient is willing to risk known and even unknown side effects because of the unusual severity of his disease? If the decision about abortion should be left to a woman (in consultation with her doctor), why shouldn’t these important decisions be solely between the individuals involved? Because they are economic in nature, and therefore subject to majority vote?

    This is precisely one issue on which Rand challenges modern liberals: whether it’s consistent to advocate an individual’s intellectual and personal liberty while denying him economic liberty.

    It wasn’t always so. Liberals in the nineteenth century were champions of science and at the forefront of abolishing slavery and securing a woman’s individual rights. But they were also champions of private property, free trade and economic liberty. It is this combination that produced the individual’s unprecedented progress in that century. Modern liberals, however, abandoned the right to private property in favor of various socialistic visions, which have since faded with awareness of what socialism and communism actually wrought. The result is what Gage notes: modern liberals bereft of an ideal.

    Any liberal-leaning person today who seeks long-term goals and a new vision, but will not touch the political right because of conservatives’ anti-evolution, anti-immigration, anti-abortion platforms, would do well to remember nineteenth-century liberalism. Perhaps the two alternatives confronting us, a government with virtually unlimited power to dictate our personal lives or our economic lives, are both defective.

    For anyone willing to explore this possibility, I can think of no better place to start than with Ayn Rand.

  16. Here’s Atlas Shrugged for you … and that whackjob, Rand …

    • Charlie, it seems to me that there is only one person infatuated with Rand, that sir, would be YOU 🙂

      • Yes, Gman … she was one hot hypocrit … talking all that social security and aid under her husband’s name … not only a hypocrit but a phony …

        But here’s the more important update, sir: Chuck Todd with MSLSD/MSNBC shows on the map how “the Republican Party is going to need to do some soul searching” because minorities are “clobbering” them in Senate races …

        Translation: the chickens are coming home to roost! In a very short time, minorities will be the majority in the US&A … then all those tea-party, Norquist anti-tax pledge signing shills will be out on their collective cans … where, oh, where is Ayn Rand when you need her?

        and in the distance one can hear the call of the wild … the ulgy Knuckster (moi) said it a year ago … it’ll be Obama in a landslide … and it’s starting to look like one. Four more years … four more years … four more years … and then Hillary because the wingies won’t be able to forgive Christie for embracing Obama after the hurricane.

        Go Bills!

        • HMM, Let me see if I got this right. People are voting for politicians aligned with two corrupt political parties, in an election controlled by politicians, aligned with the two political parties, who are owned by big corporations and banks, who own all the main stream media outlets that are giving the voters the results of the election that are controlled by the corrupt politicians who are owned by the corporations that own the information providers (MSM). YEP, sounds like a fools game to me 😦

          • Do I sense sour grapes? Why the frown, Gman? I saw tonight there’s a reality tv show coming for lunatics like yourself “Prepared something or others” … prepare for the minority revolution! Let’s go minorities! Let’s go Greater Good! Down with capitalism! Go Bills!

            • Not at all Charlie. I did not vote in this farce called free elections. I explained it above, votes don’t matter, the choice has been made long ago. I don’t watch much TV, but a Revolution would be timely, and needed. Going deer hunting in the AM, that’s what I call living life! 🙂

            • Oh yea, cause being prepared is so silly, especially since hurricane Sandy is all fixed now and no one is hungry or without power…oh, wait….

              • Smile, Jon, my man … we have 4 more years of a well run FEMA and not the abortion it was under Bush! Turning to Sandy because yous were clobbered last night … soooooooooo petty …

              • LOL, I voted for Gary Johnson, I knew I would get clobbered, so much so as to not even be mentioned. And I turned to Sandy to point out the pettiness of you turning to a reality show…. 🙂

  17. The Ayn Rand wannabe, Paul Ryan, can’t even deliver his home state! What a laugh … http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/obama-romney-wind-down-campaigns-as-voters-make-their-choice/ This from FOX Noise no less … the mountain of bullshit itself!

  18. Way to go Tea Party! Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

  19. Electorate smarter than expected, votes for more gridlock. Because when anything the government does, it screws up, it’s better for the government to do nothing at all.

  20. Some good news to go with the bad-found out a few hours ago that my sister does not have cancer!!!!!!!!! After her surgery to have a growth removed from her throat-the doctor said it looked like cancer to him but he wasn’t positive-I was livid that he chose to tell my sister his professional guess-it wasn’t like we weren’t all aware it might be already-but his words made us assume it was- but Thank you Lord!!!!! it isn’t Woo Hoooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

  21. It’s gonna be another 4 long years here on SUFA…

    • And let the collective SUFA freak out begin!

      • Oh, Buck, I’m sure it began last night … it was soooooooooooooooooooo quiet in here … just Gman threatening to shoot deer in the morning … 🙂

      • People usually freak out when they are angry or frustrated. When they are sad-it is normally more of a quiet grieving for what has been lost. I don’t bemoan you guys celebration- enjoy your win. I suspect with time you will see your error and that day brings me no joy-actually I really, really, hope, I am the one who is wrong. And if that sounds all pitiful-I really don’t care-the destruction of America and it’s values warrants grieving. Last night slapped me in the face with something I have seen but not really honestly faced the extent it has infected the Country.

        Talk to you guys tomorrow. Today I don’t care much about discussing politics. And quite frankly, although I don’t bemoan your celebration-I don’t care to personally have to listen to Charlie anymore-he’s having wayyyyy to much fun today. And I have fused at people about name calling too much to have Charlie push me to the point of calling him a ……………………… and a ……………………. and please just …………………………….. 🙂

  22. “Nowhere in the Arab Middle East has the United States created a government that shares our values’ I started to read an article this morning that started with these words. I just stopped reading because in all truth-I couldn’t figure out what these values are-that we as a Country share.

  23. What a blowout! The tea party must feel like my beloved new york state buffalo bills …

  24. A Puritan Descendant says:
  25. Steve Schmidt on Morning Joe/Schmoe: “We have lost 5 Senate seats over the last two election cycles by nominating loons.”

    Loons = Tea Party candidates … new ugly Knuckster prediction: in two years, the Dems get the house back … why? Because of the same loons … and yous can thank Grover Nordquist (the little shit) …

    • Just A Citizen says:

      So it was Grover Nordquist’s fault that the Republicans gained Senate seats and now it is his fault they lost Senate seats.

      Perhaps there is a serious flaw in that logic.

  26. We witnessed unpreccidented history last night. We watched America decide to be just like its European neighbors. We watched the majority of American’s decide that they would rather be taken care of than define their own destiny. We watched the second foundation footer laid (the first one was voting obama into the White House initially) into place for a new social order; and it does not ensue freedom and liberty.

    We are past the halfway point to a new society; socialism. As a matter of fact we are pretty much there.

    I am not sure where the spirit of our parents has gone, but the individualism, tenacity and boot strap mentality that built this great country has been replaced by a spirit of entitlement.

    I never thought I would see the day.

    Although I don’t watch him Bill OReily said it last night; America has decided it wants more stuff. How ironic and pitiful.

    If you have not yet started the process of solidifying your own personal and family stability, now is the time to start.

    CM

    • We are past the halfway point to a new society; socialism.

      Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it’s a beautiful thing!

    • Hey, “common man” … that line of shit worked great for you last night. Keep it up!

      • Charlie;

        First let me say that I hope things are returning to “normal” for you and yours after the ‘Sandy’ episode. I hope all works out for the better.

        I really do understand where you come from and what drives your values, and that is good because I am and continue to be prepared accordingly.

        You are an individual I cannot change or influence, nor do I wish too. One must treat you like one treats the addict in the family, with barriers and absolute defined limits.

        As a member of the human race I wish you and you’res well, however I shall no longer engage.

        CM

        • As a member of the human race I wish you and you’res well, however I shall no longer engage.

          Comomon … we were never in trouble during Sandy; just inconvenienced. Thanks for your concern.

          “Prepared accordingly” … sounds ominous.

          Yes, I am an addict … very obsessive,. in fact. I see the greater good as something to start adopting with passion because the days of capitlaist wine and roses is (and has been) well on the wane. If there isn’t a hybrid to social democracy, forgetaboutit … it’ll be ugly.

          The human race is over rated …. Dogs Against Romney! Remember Seamus!

          I’ll miss you, common …

          Peace.

          and Go Bills!

  27. @Gman … make sure to share the meat with those less fortunate, G …:)

    • Charlie, I will share when it is convenient for me, at my time of chosing. Right now all venison gets canned for future needs. The numbers of less fortunate are going to raise substantially. I’ve already heard of hundreds of layoffs being announced throughout the area due to Obamacare. Not a surprise to anyone, as they were warned ahead of time. Hail Obama 🙄

  28. Why the tea party fell on its face: It may have started as a legitimate cause, but it was quickly coopted by the GOP and did nothing to divorce itself. These kinds of soundbytes cost them (and yous) the election (and will continue to do so); “It’s the end of liberty and freedom … all those bootstraps, pulled up for nothing … the socialists are taking over … parasites … leaches … we (whites) must continue the battle to keep all those others enslaved with wages … we’re going off the cliff …” yada, yada, yada …

    Aside from sounding INSANE, people aren’t buying it … it does take a village, people … nobody does it on their own anymore. The 100 or so anectodal stories you “might” pose are more a testament to he village theory than the solo story. The speech above leads to a militia mentality (also INSANE) … so good luck with that.

    Go Bills!

  29. Yeah. I’m glad you lefties are enjoying yourselves. Let us know how it’s working for you in a couple years. I’m glad you’re happy that you will be no further ahead than you are now.. You’ll continue working hard to drag the undeserving along with free phones and healthcare,which is only going to make the goal of paying down debt all the more unreachable. Freedom and Liberty? Small government?That’s out of the question now. How you can celebrate that is past me. I’m sad. I truly had more faith in the people than what we saw last night. There were many reasons to not elect Obama. If more folks on the left would have taken the time to learn more than what the MSM dished out it would have turned out different. Romney was gracious til the end. Took it like a man. Can’t ask for more than that. I still plan to keep drilling conservative moral life lessons to my kids and hope they’ll never allow themselves to become what the majority of this country has become. I’m not going to be so absorbed by politics in the future. It has taken too much out of me. I’m tired and I’m sad. IT SUCKS

    • There were many reasons to not elect Obama.

      I agree. But there were absolutely no reasons to elect Romney. And that was the problem with his candidacy from Day 1.

    • …more faith in the people…
      If more folks on the left would have taken the time to learn more than what the MSM dished out it would have turned out different.

      I disagree. Let’s not go down the road where we blame the ‘left’ for being too stupid for not agreeing with your own political views.

      • Oh, Anita, my love … can’t you see what your guy lost? His bending over to the lunatics in the tea party … the super conservatives who made a moderate millionaire turn his back on 47% of Americans (his words/not mine) for their “conservative” support … the old, rich, white man days of the Republican Party are over, doll …

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Buck

        I think her statement was dead accurate.

        That is not a claim of stupidity but one of ignorance. The lack of knowledge and understanding.

        Most people don’t look past what they get from the evening news or the headlines. Many more run on an emotional not a rational engine.

        Then there are the millions of newly “registered” voters who previously did not take the time to even care enough about election to vote. So how well do you think they understood the issues and the policies of Obama vs. Romney?

        • Nope, sorry, her statement (and yours) are both dead wrong.

          You are trying to rationalize Obama’s win based upon what exactly? Your perception of voter ignorance because they voted differently than you? And how would you treat a statement to the same affect made by me about GOP voters had Romney won the election?

          • Ask you to explain the intelligence of your economic theory. Granted, neither candidate has sound economic theory, but Romney at least lied about having one.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Buck

            I am NOT RATIONALIZING anything.

            My statement is based on my own observations of the electorate. MOST are completely IGNORANT about the issues in particular and reality in general.

            For crying out loud, the polling, the surveys, various studies and “Jay walking” prove my point.

            • And once again, JAC, how’d all that fear mongering work out for you? Lost of liberty and freedom? Socialism? Communism? Parasites?

              Looks like the lefties are taking over in here … where are the other 5 or 6 wingies? Still mourning?

              Nice … in Mississippi (Old Miss), 400 students burned Obama posters and yelled racial epithets … there’s your rationalizing, my man … someone should tell them it isn’t working.

            • Oh I agree — remember, see Mathius’ first law: People Are Stupid.

              But it is a mistake to take that law and apply it to the election in such a way as to make a point that those voting for Obama are ignorant about the issues, while those voting for Romney are not.

              • And then there are the Jill Stein supporters, like myself, who think supporters of both major parties are pretty naive … but I have to say that this is even more fun that I had thought … watching Ayn Randers twist and turn …

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Buck

                That is NOT what I said. There is IGNORANCE a plenty in the USA. Enough that a well laid campaign that targets them correctly can win elections.

                There is a basic divide in the country along differences in principles. Although at times this is fuzzy.

                Elections are then won or lost by the appeal to the REMAINING group. The “independents” who are filled with contradictions in their values and issues. Or those who are most impressionable. Like the YOUTH vote.

                I can’t wait to see a more detailed break down of the voting but so far it shows that Obama won three groups, some of which overlap.

                Women……….Those Under 40…………Urban. The biggest margin was with the very young and the Urban voters. He won women by 11 which alone would be enough to win the “popular” vote.

                Women tend to be in favor of Fascism or Social Democracy as Todd likes to call it.

              • Charlie, I agree with you on Jill — a lot I liked about her and seriously considered voting for her.

            • JAC;

              Over the last 50+ years a great majority have been conditioned to believe and accept that the government is supposed to support, provide and nurtured; it was and is an effort to change various generations standards/morals. A well orchistrated effort given the results. It is interesting that our fathers and fathers fathers left their native lands to come here to start a new life, because of the liberties, freedoms and opportunities available in a Republic. But a great many of their children and grand children have decided to accept, and promote, just the opposite. I wonder why?

              I think it is because they have never known what a repressive society is really like. After all they are afforded the same opportunities and more, they are protected (for the most part) from a tyrannical government, and have grown use to getting their way. Entitled and entitle minded.

              It is my opinion that a major shift must occur to redirect that mind set. They are going to have to face significant hardships before they start questioning how or what is causing it.

              And your statement relative to women should be further defined, as most ‘married’ women voted for the Republicans; as did most white males.

              As I said when I first started contributing to SUFA, how we got to where we are today was a well calculated and thought out plan that took a great many years to execute.

              There will come a point in time when those who support the current regime will realize that they too are just the host to the leech and begin to scream. However, as I said in my last response to Charlie, all we can do is focus on the local and prepare accordingly.

              Hope you are well my friend. I am headed into the woods tomorrow and Friday in search of that tasty critter Bambi. I need a fresh Crown Roast of Venison for the Thanksgiving table.

              CM

              • And your statement relative to women should be further defined, as most ‘married’ women voted for the Republicans; as did most white males.

                How’d that work out for you?

                As I said when I first started contributing to SUFA, how we got to where we are today was a well calculated and thought out plan that took a great many years to execute.

                The vast Marxist conspiracy. Somebody say Tail Gunner Joe?

                There will come a point in time when those who support the current regime will realize that they too are just the host to the leech and begin to scream. However, as I said in my last response to Charlie, all we can do is focus on the local and prepare accordingly.

                Hunker down … don’t forget the sterno, peanut butter and crackers … and move as far from the coast as you can … not too far into tornado country, but close enough so the next tsunami doesn’t wipe you out.

                Of course, concentrating all your forces that way will leave you more vulnerable in the end … sort of like last night.

                Please remind Gman he owes me my Chivas …

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Buck

            I forgot to respond to your second question. Had Romney won there would ALSO have been a large number of IGNORANT votes thrown his way.

            The Dems are simply better at getting the IGNORANT signed up and then delivered to the polls than the Republicans.

            • I would say the GOP is better at getting the ignorant signed up, but I guess we’re both biased on that question.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Buck

                Logic says it is the Dems. who are better at it. They are the ones with the HUGE advantage in Electorate Recruitment. I saw somewhere that they signed up close to 2 million NEW VOTERS. I’m not sure that is true, but something they were claiming.

                That is pretty close to the MARGIN of victory for Obama.

              • So, automatically, all new voters are ignorant of the issues?

        • Many more run on an emotional not a rational engine.

          And some considerate it reality … but how’d that work out for ya?

        • JAC.
          Maybe you should apply your “objective” analysis of “lack of knowledge and understanding” to SUFA.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Todd

            I do that every day.

            I just don’t comment on everything. When you and Mathius were more regular in your comments there was little need for me to weigh in.

            On the other hand, I see more THINKING going on here than most places I frequent.

            • And I “think” you lost last night …:)

              • Just A Citizen says:

                You “think”?? That is funny.

                I didn’t lose anything last night. Watched a great old Western starring Will Rogers Jr., then The Good Witch’s Charm, with Katherine Bell.

                Then I read some of Hegel’s treatise on FREEDOM.

                Woke this morning to discover the elections went pretty much as I expected. A few surprises but not that many.

                I do admit that I thought Romney would win Florida and Virginia.

                The size of the margin in the Montana Senate Race was a surprise. Although it might be closer by the end.

                Was also surprised that Mia Love lost her race in Utah. In a District where Romney won handily.

                Today I go back to work defending Freedom, Liberty and Justice against the likes of you.

                Today is no different than yesterday, or the day before. Except there is a greater sense of urgency.

    • Anita;

      The first step in resolving a problem is recognizing you have one. For those of us that understand last nights results it just further solidified the need to focus our energies appropriately.

      Romeny losing was not as much of a blow as the realization that our country has decided to be in large an entitlement society. It is sad that the majority have evolved to the level that they have. To a great degree we have lost the “individual spirit”, or it has at least been deemed old school.

      The mentality of ‘the government owes me or needs to help me’ is not how my father lived or raised me. Independence and the hard work ethic of our fathers took a big blow last night, but it can be restored. Restored at the local and individual level, which is where we need to focus.

      Seek out those that think like you and are interested in ensuring local prosperity and work with them. Don’t worry about the federal government and its efforts (other than how it impeeds efforts at the local level), it will eventually implode.

      CM

  30. @Jon …. LOL I voted for Jill Stein … pettiness of pointing to a reality show? I thought Gman would be happy to know they’re now including him along with all the other lunatics on television (Jersey Shore, Mob Wives, Redneck nonsense, etc.) … it’s a big business being nuts!

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    V.H.

    RE: “It’s gonna be a long night 🙂 I’m just curious-is there anything in Rand’s philosophy which you disagree with? I don’t know how you stand on abortion and I’m not gonna ask. But anything other than abortion which you don’t mind talking about that you disagree with her on?”

    Yes there is, and it is a very big disagreement. She was an Atheist and decried anything resembling religion because of its “supernatural” nature.

    I don’t share here disdain for nor disbelief in a God. She did not distinguish between the possible existence of God and the way in which humans have described God, primarily for their own benefit. She did not recognize the role of the Protestant movement in establishing the basis on which the philosophy of Free Will and thus Freedom was formed in modern times.

    I disagree with her view on “taking from the system” if you absolutely oppose the system. I think her ethical argument is valid, and thus she was not a hypocrite for taking Soc Sec. But her argument results in nothing changing. So I agree with the argument but disagree with the personal choice.

    I disagree with her defense of European invasion of North America on moral or ethical grounds. She is correct in that it is wrong today to apply our standards to a world that was vastly different in its standards, but I think wrong to then use our standards to rationalize our conquest. Her discussion on this subject seems inconsistent with her other explanations.

    I disagree with her view that TAXES should be “voluntary”. It would not work. But a system of “fees” might work and would be equally consistent. I think some TAX is required to fund basic and appropriate Govt functions, like DEFENSE.

    I explained my view on abortion long ago. But the debate over whether a fetus is a human being or not does not affect my final answer on the subject. That is that Govt should not try to control the practice by creating “laws”.

    You see, there is NO WAY to write an objective and rational law that does anything but BAN abortion outright. And once you go that far you are placing the life of an existing human at risk against their free will.

    If abortion is to be made “rare” or to be “eliminated” then two things must happen. The biggest is a Cultural Change in morals and ethics that cause people to avoid the practice. This must be done by argument and discussion, not by imposing laws upon them. The other is medical advances that eliminate its need to prevent the mother’s death.

    • This Nation no longer has “morals” nor “ethics” in the main. I watched some of the liberal commentators on the election last night. They made that very clear. Thus one reason for my name change. I am sick to my heart with this Nation.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      V.H.

      One more thing on my disagreements with Rand.

      She outlined “Rights” as being an offshoot or product of our Ethics as extended to Politics. Namely that we developed Rights as a way to define the appropriate boundaries of “proper Govt” given a basis of Individual Freedom.

      We discussed this thing called “Rights” before. I have not settled yet on her viewpoint. I believe we can show that there are core Rights that are inherent in our existence. That our “political Rights” then flow from the basic Rights.

      My concern here is that her approach could lead to “Rights are determined by Govt”. She would deny this, and say they come from the People. But then Govt comes from the people so I see little distinction.

      • According to Obama and his apparent minority minions, our rights are already determined by Government V. And I’m not speaking of minority people, I’m talking about minority of the population. But they are in control. Kept there by young folks who have been indoctrinated by their High School and College teachers, and minorities who have been indoctrinated by the Socialist Democratic Party and “bribed” by the freebies they stand to get. I weep for America and what it has become.

  32. I cannot believe how stupid the American people have become. But it is obvious that they are. I give the U.S. two years to total economic collapse.

    • Total and absolute … freedom and liberty are GONE … we’ll have to take the jobs they tell us to take … they’ll make us wear uniforms and spout Moaist ideology … we’ll never know what it’s like to make a decision on our own again!

      Batshit crazy does it every time.

      Keep it coming, Esom … it worked great last night … and it’ll work even better in two years …

  33. Just A Citizen says:

    Jon Smith

    This could be one of the best lines I seen on politics this cycle:

    “Ask you to explain the intelligence of your economic theory. Granted, neither candidate has sound economic theory, but Romney at least lied about having one.”

    • Thanks!
      The best line I have seen was a meme on facebook. “Electing Obama is like backing up the titanic and hitting the iceberg again. Electing Romney is like hitting a different iceberg.”

  34. Just A Citizen says:

    Anita

    When your behind in the third quarter and you get sacked on third down, you don’t just give up the game. You go over to the bench, get your linemen pumped up, get out the play book and you get ready for your next possession.

    If anyone should understand what it takes to come from behind to win it is a SPARTAN.

    Big hug your way this morning.
    🙂

  35. “Journalists” in America have sunk to such a new low they rarely even bother to pretend to be anything other than shills for the President. Shouting through their large bullhorns — snide, arrogant, and obnoxious — they are active proponents of “progressive” (i.e. Marxist) ideology. In sum, they are propagandists.

    Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel of the Daily Caller have a less scathing perspective of media bias. They’ve concocted the notion that somehow this dreadful, dangerous bias will soon vanish as our current batch of “journalists” will move onto other positions. But I disagree. Any journalists who retire or move onto non-journalist positions will simply be replaced with more just like them.

    I stand with Pat Caddell in his assessment of how extraordinarily dangerous the situation has become with respect to the media in America.

    Second, the education of our children has become a shameful exercise in smoke and mirrors. Instead of being taught to be critical thinkers and discerning consumers of information, they are being brainwashed. Educational institutions have become settings where propaganda flourishes.

    Third, political correctness, multiculturalism, class warfare, and victimhood have taken hold in the minds of far too many Americans (thanks in no small part to the first two points above).

    Fourth, the ever-rising number of Americans dependent on the government ensures power to those who create and sustain that dependency.

    Perhaps most serious of all is the breakdown of the moral fabric of our society. Fewer and fewer Americans appear to have a moral compass. Fewer and fewer are able to think critically for themselves, unable to distinguish fact from fiction.

    No. Romney did not lose because of who he is. Or his message. Or poor strategy.

    He lost in large part because he was battling a society on the decline and what amounted to state-run propaganda. It is sobering, indeed, to realize how powerful this propaganda machine is when one absorbs the fact that millions upon millions of Americans denied the reality of what is happening in their individual lives, in the country, and around the world, in favor of pabulum fed to them via the media.

    So where do we go from here? How do we reclaim centers of influence? In the media? In the schools? How do we stop what Yuri Besmenov talks about with such prescience?

    How do we rebuild a magnificent society?

    I have no answers on this sad and dreadful day. Only questions about where to go from here. And how.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/the_big_picture.html#ixzz2BYjuKJSW

    • they are active proponents of “progressive” (i.e. Marxist) ideology. In sum, they are propagandists.

      BATSHIT CRAZY … brought to you by SUFA … it worked great last night, folks, but don’t take my word for it … look at today’s headlines: FOUR MORE YEARS.

    • I agree totally with that article. And Charlie, this election just shows how totallly brainwashed, selfish, and totally stupid the population of America has become. Crow all you want, but it doesn’t make everone here crazy.

  36. Then I read some of Hegel’s treatise on FREEDOM.

    How that work out for you?

    Try George Bernard Shaw’s “The Intelligent Woman’s Guide to Socialism.”

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Quite well thanks. After about an hour I couldn’t keep my eyes open.

      Slept like a baby, with dreams of settlers killing Rustlers and Savages.

      Placing a defense of Socialism and Intelligent in the same argument is an Oxymoron.

      • And now that the minorities are destined to be majorities, I’ll bet those dreams will turn to nightmares soon. 🙂

        Thanks, though, I’ve often wondered what cowards dream of …:)

  37. Just A Citizen says:

    Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachman WON their races for U.S. House last night.

    🙂

    • And you’re proud of that … Alrighty then!

      Ryan couldn’t deliver his home state and Bachmann … well … look up batshit crazy in the dictionary and there she is … alongside her gay husband who believe he can pray it all away.

      Yee-ha!

    • Yes, but Bachman barely won. We’ll see in two years…

      Scott Brown lost…Allen West lost…

      Alan Grayson was reelected…

      Elizabeth Warren won…
      Tammy Baldwin won (hey, where’s Kathy???)…
      Heidi Heitkamp won…
      Claire McCaskill won…
      Chris Murphy…
      Tim Kaine won…
      Jon Tester won…
      Joe Donnelly won…
      Dean Heller won…
      Sherrod Brown won…

      Grover Norquist is trying to spin it as a “Republican Win”…

      Dick Morris called it “an Obama squeaker.”

      Karl Rove is catching holy hell from his billionaire donors. Apparently they’re not happy with their “We spent $390 million and Obama’s still President” t-shirts…

      Sarah Palin had a little tantrum on Fox News…

      Donald Trump had a melt-down on twitter…and then deleted it…what an idiot…

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Todd

        Seems to me that Kathy and her minions did quite well.

        For those of you who have not followed, Wisconsin Republicans took back control of BOTH houses last night. And Paul Ryan won re-election handily.

        So maybe some folks are just taking way too much from the various results last night.

      • Yea, mr rich guy spent a lot, but mr man of the people who can relate to the little guy spent 637 million to stay president. No one seems to want to point that out. The media made a fuss about Romney spending so much and trying to buy the election, never mentioning Obama spent over 50% MORE than Romney.

        • Wow Jon,
          You seem a little “worked up” today. A little “indigestion” or something bugging you?

          I wasn’t commenting on how much “mr rich guy” or “mr man of the people” spent. I commenting about how rich republicans are upset they couldn’t buy the election. Maybe they have the same “indigestion” you have?

          But please provide some links to back up your numbers.

            • Jon,

              but mr man of the people who can relate to the little guy spent 637 million to stay president

              You word this like Obama spent $637 million of his own money. He actually raised that much money, and spent $553 million.

              never mentioning Obama spent over 50% MORE than Romney

              You have to really pick a specific “slice” of the data to make this statement even marginally true. When you add in Party and related SuperPac money, it’s much closer. When you add in all “independent” spending (SuperPacs) the Republicans outspent the Democrats by over $150 million (that’s just a rough number I added up in my head).

        • If I remember correctly, Obama was supposed to spend a whole lot more. Problem was his donations dried up. So, the fact that Romney collected more was used against him yet the prior “thinking” was the money Obama was supposed to raise showed what a man of the people he was. Spin anyone?

  38. @ Buck. I understand you’re voting for Obama. My wife did the same (and she was not happy with him) … he was definitely the lesser of those two evils … I won’t forgive him for what he did to labor … hopefully, if the whackos on the right force another 2 years of obstruction, the country “might” rebuke them and he’ll have a super majority again. I doubt he’d waste it dicking around the next time. He should shove it up their asses soon as he can. The good thing is that so long as the extremists in the GOP have a voice, they’ll lose the big elections. This time it was hispanics and african americans … who can they possibly run next time? Christie will continue to be villified by the Limbaugh’s … Levins and Hannitys … hopefully, he’ll switch parties. I’d consider voting for him. Not while he’s with the enemy, though … never.

  39. I seem to remember Charlie saying that Obama was not even CLOSE to being Socialist.Though I believe Obama is dead on Socialist, I would like to know where his change of mind came from. Also, a reiteration of why America would be better of Socialist when we have worked just fine as a Constitutional Republic for over 200 years.

  40. Just A Citizen says:

    COMMON MAN

    I wish I could join you in your pursuit of Thanksgiving dinner. I have had to put hunting aside until I can return to a more “civilized” part of the country.

    My only addition to your comment about history is to clarify that the plan took many “decades” not just “many years”. There was hope in 1980 that we had turned the wave away. I think to many of “them” got included in the Reagan administration.

    As it turns out, all that happened was they got even angrier and more bitter. Now we have seen them for what they are and it isn’t very pretty.

    Good thing the woods are thick in your parts. That must explain how you are able to survive among the Walking Dead. 🙂

    Good hunting.

    • Yous can always cook yous some humble-ass pie …:)

    • JAC;

      Two keys to surviving the Zombies and they are best summed up by famous lines from popular movies: From the movie The Patriot: “Aim small, miss small” and from the John Wayne movie The Undefeated: “Windage and elevation Mrs. Langston, windage and elevation”

      You kno my friend that should your travels bring you back this way just let me know and I will send you home with some backstraps.

      CM

      • The Patriot & John Wayne … now let’s see … one starred a racist bigot and the other a guy who made war movies but never went to war.

        Perfect. At least you guys are consistent.:)

        • Shame, shame, shame. he wasn’t a cowboy either. Doesn’t change what I saw in “the Searchers” greatest western ever and top 10 in greatest movies of all time.

          Consider yourself lucky, as do I , that you never had a father like Gibson did. My own kids have pretty much rejected him completely. The almost shrink in me doesn’t give him a pass but does see that once he fell off the wagon, it was going to be a rough ride. Ever have anyone tell you the things you said when you were totally drunk out of your mind. My cousin Bobby was like that. Sweetest guy in the world, loved everybody and showed it a thousand ways unless he was drunk. It was never pretty. Thank God, he woke up. Went out a few years ago as the gentleman he really was and that’s the man I’ll remember.

          • I’m a happy drunk, but I hear you. I’ve done some stuff in that state …

            Big Jake is my favorite … and the horse soldiers … and The Quiet Man …

            • Ditto on Quiet Man but “the Searchers”, if you have never seen it, you should. It will blow you away. I’d like your opinion of it. The Character Wayne plays, Ethan Edwards is considered a racist by most viewers/reviewers. I stop short. The character is much, much deeper than that. As an advocate for the American Indian, but also a writer, you might enjoy how Ford, Wayne and the screenwriter sculpted the character. Warning, you may have to watch it several times, there are depths within depths to this movie, There are like thirty pages of IMBD comments.

              While I never considered Ford as a director to be “over the top” when it came to negative portrayals of Indians, I found that in “the Searchers” (1956) and “Cheyenne Autumn” (!964?) he did a total about face. Did not hide the negatives but explained why the Indians did what they did. He did it in such a way that I , as a ten year old, leaving the Uptown theater in 1956 with my dad knew I had just seen something unlike anything else I have ever seen. Guess I have watched it 40 or 50 times since. Something new pops out every time,. have actually forcibly hooked at least two of my kids on it. Visually, it is unreal.

      • If I may. My youngest is hunting where a LOT of deer are supposed to be. In fact they are indeed there. The problem is with Coyotes. We are virtually overrun with the things. They were introducedabout 20 years ago into South Georgia to control the Rabbit population. Boy did they ever!! Now there are NO rabbits in South Georgia and very little in the North. They are everywhere despite an open season on them. My boy has already shot 2. But no deer.

        This is because all he ever sees are Coyotes or sign of them. They are starting to intrude in the deer hunting here. He is fixing to change his hunting location. MAYBE that will work.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        CM

        You can count on it.

  41. Just A Citizen says:

    Found this interesting comment. I haven’t seen any numbers to confirm this. Has anyone else?

    The REAL story is that we were counting on worse turnout than the polls because of a gut feel about ‘energy, but the shocker in turnout is that Romney 2012 turnout is DOWN from McCain 2008 turnout. Why werent we more fired up in 2012 than in 2008, especially after 2010? Obama lost 10 million votes, but Romney lost 3 million and in that, the election.

  42. Around 115 million Americans voted for President. As Charlie put it so perfectly, they voted for the “lesser of two evils”. I didn’t matter who won, it would have been more of the same. The puppetmasters pick who you can vote for, and then lie to you and tell you your vote counts 😆 JAC and Buck argued about stupid people voting because they didn’t know all the important information to make them educated voters. IMHO, there are no smart voters. The election is rigged, no matter who wins. When you know that the Federal system is corrupt, yet keep participating, you are no better than the corrupt politicians you cast your vote for. You legitimize their theft and lies, so now everyone has to deal with the aftermath. Some of you are very happy (Charlie, Todd, and Buck), some not happy at all. In the end, there is no need for the emotions, nothing has or would have changed. The real election fraud is having one to begin with. 🙄

    • G is one righteous dude … sometimes crazy, but righteous non the less. I know I appear to be having fun in here today (and I am) but … well, how often does one get the opportunity this life?

      Now, taking what G wrote above and adding this (if he dare) … When you know that the Federal system is corrupt, yet keep participating, you are no better than the corrupt politicians you cast your vote for.

      So, if you join the military, fight its wars … what does that make you? Sucker comes to mind, but that might be unfair. I know for a FACT, many (MANY) have joined up because of a lack of opportunity … and no doubt some joined because they wanted to serve … but serve what? If everything is so corrupt, I mean … you don’t get to have it both ways, amici.

      I hope VH doesn’t take what I linked the wrong way … that (might) was an intentional insert; it was meant to be more generic (because of some of the hatred being spewed this fine morning after). Tweeters, of course … using, you guessed it, fugazy names … you gotta love it.

      • You know, I agree with G. ON EVERY POINT. Thing is though, somebody is going to be elected. So not voting for “the lesser of two evils” is what I choose to do. Mind though, I do not believe either one would have stopped the collapse of our economy. I think Romney would have been slower, but I don’t believe he would have stopped it.

        But I believe that the Federal GOVERNMENT is corrupt. The military goes where they are sent. They fight who they are told to. And yes, many join because they have no economic choice. The others serve AMERICA. Not it’s government. They serve(d) because of their idea of America is supposed to be. That doesn’t make them suckers. In my mind, it makes them Patriots. They can’t help who their Government is. Someone has to defend the Nation. Might as well be them. And for anyone to call anyone else on here a coward is a gross insult to them. You should be ashamed Charles.

      • Charlie. Most who join the service are young and not into politics at all, I know I wasn’t. Why do you think they target young people just out of High School? I don’t expect you to understand what serving one’s country meant at the time. I would not serve today, unless we were invaded or under alien attack 😆

        AS far as VH, I’m sure she will take it the wrong way, but she is certainly no racist.

        The tweets are no worse than the one’s threatening to assissinate Romney if he won, or the one’s calling for riots if Romney won.

        I meant what I wrote, now let me add too it a little. A private organization, NEP, calls the MSM outlets and tells them the results/updates of the Federal elections. Eleven minutes after the polls closed in Tennessee, the race was called before even one vote was counted. Basically, NEP tells the media the results and the media announces them. Races are called long before votes are counted, sometimes before their counted, absentee ballots are basically ignored because the race is called before their opened if sent on day of election. So if 5 million people in Ohio vote, the NEP can claim anything they want as too results and the media will announce it, and the puppet politicians will certify it. The Federal elctions are a complete fraud. Ant American should be able to view the actual votes the machines record and count them to ensure correctness, but that won’t happen, nor will anyone be given permission to do so, I dare anyone to try.

        Imagine that, all those votes ignored by a few folks following orders. The sheeple eat it up and believe the bullshit. Shame on all of you for being a stupid voter 👿

        • Charlie. Most who join the service are young and not into politics at all, I know I wasn’t. Why do you think they target young people just out of High School? I don’t expect you to understand what serving one’s country meant at the time. I would not serve today, unless we were invaded or under alien attack

          G, I think you’re calling yourself a dope (or that you were one when you joined). Why not expect me to understand? Because I’m a pinko commi plutonian? I happen to believe in conscription; forced draft for EVERYBODY, boys and girls, so they can earn their benefits; minimum 1 years service. EVERY politician’s kids first to the front lines in times of war (so they have SOMETHING to think about before they authorize one) …

          And why would you serve now if we were invaded or under alien attack? You seem very convinced the Lame Street Media is screwing with your noggin, so maybe they’re showing reruns of Alien or Red Dawn …:)

          • We will not get invaded and aliens won’t attack, so I’m safe. No, I’m not calling myself a dope. I just became much wiser as I aged. Don’t worry, you are not accused of that 😆 You want conscription, but would not want to serve yourself Charlie. It is a revenge thing for you, you really wouldn’t understand. Not because your a pinko commie plutonian, because you couldn’t make it in that environment. 🙂

            • I would have to serve, G … then you could make fun of me as I trip all over the place when we do a forced march. See, I’m a statist so I love the word “forced” … think of the laughs. “Stella, put togother that M-16 on the double!” And there I am searching for Scrabble letters …

              Come on, G … it isn’t revenge at all … it’s called “fairness” … and a reciprocal arrangement between citizens and their government; we serve, we get benefits. I wouldn’t even end the draft. I’d make the elderly be a part; it’s not like they’d need to go through the M-16 humiliations. They could perform in situations they’re able and skilled at.

              Come on, brother … think outside the box … Abbott & Costello … “left shoulder arms, right shoulder arms, left shoulder arms, right shoulder arms …” “Make up your mind!”

            • GMan

              Sorry if my voting offended you. Sorry if my misplaced pride in my idea of America offended you. Sorry G. But please don’t call me a stupid voter or a sheep ever again. Thanks.

              • Anita is right about that, too, G … we need to change the political process, invite more voices, set up genuine term limits, eliminate dollars from the process (citizens united), etc., etc., etc. … but voting, contrary to the Anarchist’s Guide to Fantasyland, is what is required by people who desire civilization. How much government gets to flex its muscles should always and ONLY be decided by people and not the 1% (so no more inheritence).

                So stop it now or I won’t use my Charlie joins the Army cartoons anymore …

              • Anita, you did not offend me. I take it that I offended you, it’s not personnal, but it is what needs to be said. Our Federal system is corrupt to the core, including the fraud called elections. The winners were determined long ago, all that needed to happen was for people to wait in long lines thinking they were part of that decision, then go home and watch the drama play out on TV. Hopefully you will see this now.

                Charlie, like the cartoon, I will agree that the people should control the government, not the 1%. Can’t fix it by playing their game by their rules, now can we?

              • So I’m still a stupid voter and a sheep. Wonderful. Tell me oh wise GMan, how do the people get a say in the Second American Republic?

              • OH My! Anita, you are not stupid or a sheep. You are pouting quite well though, but that will subside. If you want a real say, start by aknowledging the corruption. Start by not playing by their rules. You can never win under the current situation. Start by telling them goodbye!

  43. Just A Citizen says:

    Is This An End Or A Beginning?
    A Note From MPI CEO Carl Graham

    Winston Churchill, when asked if the Allied victory in North Africa was the beginning of the end of World War II, replied “No, but it may be the end of the beginning.” Despite yesterday’s disappointing results, American Exceptionalism is not at an end. I’m not even quite ready to say it’s at the beginning of the end.

    But this election marks a significant shift in our culture; and that shift is the end of the beginning of this great American experiment. We have gone from a majority that respects freedom and responsibility to a majority that envies success and covets power.

    If you’re like me by about 8:00 last night you felt like you’d been kicked in the gut. How could so many of our fellow countrymen and Montanans – Montanans for crying out loud! – be ready to toss out the principles that made this country great and become mere cogs in a vast machine run by government overseers and their cronies?

    And why should any of us continue to fight for those principles when most Americans today clearly don’t understand or value them?

    I’ll leave it to pundits and shrinks to answer the first question. I have my own ideas on why people so willingly trade freedom for security, confuse likeability with competency, and don’t take the time or mental effort to understand the complex issues we face today. But regardless of the reasons, that’s where we are.

    The question is, what do those of us who care about freedom, who understand what makes this country different and great do about it? Do we take our toys and go home: disengage, get off the grid and let the country and culture drive itself off the cliff?

    Many of us who have worked hard, saved, and planned ahead in case of uncertain times have the option to step aside, live simpler lives, and watch the train go over the edge.

    And I’ll be honest. My first reaction last night was “To hell with them all. If they can’t figure it out why should I care anymore.”

    But that’s not who I am; and if you’ve read this far I doubt it’s who you are, either.

    I had two maxims during my Naval career that got me through many difficult times: from months of being yelled at by a Marine drill sergeant, to endless months boring circles in and over oceans around the world, to twenty four hour operations in hot zones. They’re simple – almost Sophomoric – but they’re true: “Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems,” and “This too shall pass.”

    Remember how you felt in 2008. It was bad and we’re worse off now. But we’re still here. The feelings of disappointment, gloom, and even betrayal soften. Thoughts turn to the future.

    We’ll survive despite some hard times ahead. But we don’t want to go through this again.

    Do your grieving and get on with the task at hand.

    It’s the end of the beginning. We’ve entered a new phase in the battle for America and I for one am not ready to surrender.

    With great risk comes great opportunity, but not certain success. That’s why they call it risk. We need to recognize that the culture has shifted and meet that shift head on. We need to get past short term political opportunism and invest in demonstrating the inevitable human tragedies that will result from the coming policies out of Washington and the possibility of continued failed policies coming out of Helena (the votes aren’t all in as I write this).

    People are voting with their hearts, not their heads. We need to reach their hearts so that we can engage their heads.

    We will do our part at MPI to ensure that you and state leaders have ideas and options to return to the principles that made this country the Shining City on the Hill and Montana its crown jewel. But as we’ve seen, great ideas are not enough.

    The culture is the key. Montanans must understand the grave issues facing our state and nation, and how the current path toward centralized control, dependency on the state and decline of the private sector affect them personally. That takes constant engagement and reaching people where they are, not where we want them to be.

    And it means playing offense, not defense! For too long we’ve assumed people would do the right thing if they just had the facts. Facts are necessary but insufficient. We need to actively work to create a culture of freedom and build a bench of future leaders whose guiding principles go beyond getting into office. We need to build a Freedom Majority that feels with their hearts and votes with their heads.

    Let’s step up to ensure that Tuesday, November 6th 2012 becomes a tipping point for the restoration of freedom in America and a legacy of opportunity in Montana; that the end of the beginning in American Exceptionalism is the beginning of the end for statism and tyranny!

    • But this election marks a significant shift in our culture; and that shift is the end of the beginning of this great American experiment. We have gone from a majority that respects freedom and responsibility to a majority that envies success and covets power.

      Is that the 47% again? Worked just great last night, JAC. Glad you’re hanging on to it.

      If you’re like me by about 8:00 last night you felt like you’d been kicked in the gut. How could so many of our fellow countrymen and Montanans – Montanans for crying out loud! – be ready to toss out the principles that made this country great and become mere cogs in a vast machine run by government overseers and their cronies?

      Imagine, the people are Montana are supposed to be real Americans! What are they drinking up there?

      And, hey, commander, buy November 6, 2012, your tea party will either have to live with a Chris Christie (if he doesn’t smarten up and switch parties) or get waxed all over again.

    • I will remind you JAC of the corrupt political machine we will fight against. When you have a woman who was voting say that she didn’t like the direction the Nation and the President was going, “but he was just so charismatic!!”, I start doubting our voting system. And when the Black folks ALL vote for Obama JUST BECAUSE he is black; I begin to doubt our system. These people are not voting with their hearts. They are for sure not voting with their heads. I mean really! “Charismatic?” She was just a birdbrain, but even worse the blacks have become even more bigoted than in 2008.

      What this election has shown me is that there is very little hope for the next election. And I’m not talking about for Republicans. There is very little hope for our continued freedom much longer. Instead the Federal Government will continue to whittle away our rights as citizens, while most of the “citizens” will freely give them away for the freebies they will be offered. I feel very little hope for the Republic and I feel even less hope for the election process in the future.

  44. @Buck/JAC: They are the ones with the HUGE advantage in Electorate Recruitment. I saw somewhere that they signed up close to 2 million NEW VOTERS.

    They’re called minorities … your party has ignored them/haunted them/ridiculed them and made fun of them … and they will never let YOUR party win a big election again in your lifetime. How cool is that?

  45. @G: Charlie, like the cartoon, I will agree that the people should control the government, not the 1%. Can’t fix it by playing their game by their rules, now can we?

    We’re in 100% agreement, G … we cannont change it playing their rules, and until the rules change (be it revolution and/or economic catastrophie), it all is one big farse. Not because there’s a government in place, but because it’s “this” government in place; one of the rich, for the rich and by the rich. In the meantime, the bones throne to the masses are just enough to keep them from revolting … but the Dems will throw a few more bones than the GOP … one thing is for certain, though … the rich, old, white man party is in some serious trouble right about now … minorities will soon be majorities and they won’t take it lightly that an imbecile like Rush Limbaugh cracks wise like this: “How are we supposed to get the Hispanic vote, open up the gates and let all the illegals in?” I’m sure Hispanics really appreciated that one.

    • Captain Canolli, You start out by making a great point, then bring up how to get votes from immigrants !?! Until votes actually mean something, it won’t matter. Your right, the rules need changed, some how, some way. 🙂

      • The captain of canolli-land was trying to make a point, Gmeister … until (UNTIL) there is a change, the masses have to opt for one of two choices (or ignore it all and go deer hunting) … Dems toss more bones to the masses than Reps … ergo, ipso facto, etc., they are where most people will turn, especially as the income gap widens and widens and widens … those who voted Rep in similar economic situations as what used to be called the middle class, kid themselves a little more than Dems because it is their interest they harm (less bones) … now we have a situation where minorities will soon be majorities and the whack jobs seeking to protect their sacred rich old white guy status (Rush Limbaugh, et al) are making mockery of the very people they need most. Frankly, it’s a beautiful thing from where I sit … the change we agree on can only come about 1 of 2 ways; catostrophic economic situation and/or revolution (peaceful or otherwise) … I’d say the economic situation will come first and that will bring on the 2nd … however it comes about. Maybe it’ll happen while I’m still alive … seems more possible every day.

        • I got your point old friend, but disagree that the masses have to opt or accept the corruption. I also agree that it won’t change without a major event. Your also correct, people will vote for their free cookies, despite the history of where that leads to.

          Until the masses stop it, the rich white people will still rule, they do now, Obama is their puppet, if he strays to far, they will off him.

          • Free cookies … what the 1% have benefitted from since the inception of the US&A … coming to an end in a theatre near you soon enough, my old Gmeister pal o’mine.

            In the meantime, celebrate life, brother. Hugs those who are dear to you … pet your animals (and take a day off from shooting deer) … feed the hungry, clothe the people, with no shoes on their feet …

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Buck

      That was certainly a bunch of bull shit.

      Some lefty telling me that a lefty is actually a MODERATE. Then using LEFTY Republicans as some example.

      Sorry Buck, but a Fascist Progressive is a Fascist Progressive. Comparing them to Progressive Republicans doesn’t change their spots.

  46. What did last night mean?

    1) Blackflag is right again. He called Obama; stuck his neck out on a percentage and missed by only 5%.
    2) Never bet against Intrade (BF secret weapon).

    • “only?” 5% in an election is HUGE …

      The GOP was whipped where it counts … minority votes and women … the young … as all the rich, old white guys die off, so does the tea party …

  47. It’s over now, call it a day … the GOP needs to acknowledge the marriage of gay(s) …

  48. Just A Citizen says:

    D13

    Colonel, I have a good one for you.

    Idaho passed an Amendment to their Constitution codifying the Right to Hunt, Fish and Trap.

    Every County BUT ONE passed the Amendment..

    Guess who the people are that live in that ONE County. Can you name a town in that County? No Googling please.

    Hope all is well in the Republic this fine day. Sunny and warm here. An unusual event but most uplifting.

    The GREAT SELL OFF begins. Avoid new Cap Gains Rates.

  49. Just A Citizen says:

    Anita, V.H.

    Just for you.

    Those who do not vote to create change are the same people who will bow down to a charging Grizzly. The results of both are about the same.

    Last I saw it was the sheep who froze when the bear charged. 😉

    • Right on JAC! Hopefully that’s the last time we have to worry about that cat getting into office. Oops..there I go POUTING again..I really need to get that under control. I need a roadtrip. Thanks for the encouragement here and above. 😉

    • Yes JAC, those who see the fraud for what it is knows not to enter the grizzly’s home, unless well armed of course. You voted, good for you. It changed nothing. The Grizzly is still in charge. Please prove me wrong! 🙂 Anita, quit pouting 🙂

      • Just A Citizen says:

        GMan

        The only reason my voting did not change anything is because not enough people voted who believe the same things as me.

        Tell Obama that voting doesn’t count.

        I share your dismay and/or disdain for the Govt and the machine as it stands. But just wishing it to change will change NOTHING.

        Playing the game does not assure victory. But not playing is called a forfeit……….it shows up as a LOSS on the record book.

        By the way, 10,665,222 FEWER people VOTED for POTUS in this Election. Given the additional 2 million the Dems got into the game that means that 12 million that voted last time did not vote this time. Did their standing on the sidelines cause a change?

        • JAC, It did not matter who or how many voted, the decision was made long before “election day”. Nothing would have changed, regardless of “the winner”. I know that you have ignored my posts on this, but so be it. Try to prove that the election is legit, you can’t, they will crush you at every turn.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            gman

            I thought the elections were going to be suspended. Did I miss that? What time yesterday did that happen?

            Change in a large system occurs slowly. If your criteria is that it ALL changes with one election then you have established a criteria to assure your claim.

            There is not some group pulling levers and making things happen just as they want. As Black Flag pointed out it is more passive than that. The Council on Foreign Relations does not control elections. But they work hard to spread their view of the world and promote those people who think as they do. And those people RUN for office and they VOTE.

            If you think voting does not cause major change I suggest you look into what happened AFTER Women got the vote in the USA. Look at policies BEFORE and in the ten or so years AFTER.

  50. Well, we are back after a 5 day period with no power and ten days without phone, internet and land line. What a ten days!

    My first comment to my beloved Governor, who sold his soul for a phone call from Bruce Springsteen and then cried. I assume that he cried from Springsteen acknowledging that he exists rather than from the shame that Peter felt betraying Jesus. Back at the ranch, say just a snippet of TV in the past ten days where for one brief moment, before the network execs spiked it there was a group of flooded Staten Islanders holding a banner with “We are Katrina” printed on it. Help for my friends on Long Island and in the Rockaways has been just about as forthcoming as under Bush II. Had two family friends washed out in Breezy Point and one burnt to the ground. I’m lucky my eighty year oaks did their shedding in last Halloween’s ice storm and I had them pruned back in September.

    I have been checking my friends smarmy election comments all night. For the life of me I still cannot believe that these people support the least competent buffoon ever to run for office. I read how we were saved from the idle rich???? And we dodged the bullet. Which bullet I am not sure. Then there are the repeated Mother F—– Romney rants from supposedly college educated people in the business world. The code of the duel should be brought back.

    Last night on radio, I heard Chris Matthews comment about “Thank God for the hurricane”. All night long I had visions of waiting for him outside MSNBC and when he exited, offering as one 60 plus guy to duke it out with another 60 plus guy. He fancies himself as one tough Irish guy, well lets see him put up with a guy, who for the occasion would borrow the sobriquet “one tough Polak” from my fellow Slavs. I’d really like to slap the SOB silly. Like I said, you can say any stupid, offensive thing you want these days and be unfortunately assured that you will never have to back it up.

    I kind of think the country is pretty much finished. O’Reilly the big mouth is right, the “I want stuff ” crowd has won. They are in charge now, it is no longer my country, it is theirs . I don’t know that Romney would have been anything other than a speed bump on the road to perdition. That’s pretty much the way it has been since the “Great Society”. Vote for the lesser of two evils in the vain hope that the juggernaut can be stopped. Funny, as an aside, in this free association of mine, I can’t really find a whole lot of difference between the Barry Goldwater platform of the ’60’s and today’s conservatives but there sure as hell is a lot of difference between the Humphrey, Muskie, JFK, Connolly liberals of the ’60’s and the alleged “liberals” of today. Exactly where would there be a single point of agreement between JFK and Obama I ask?.

    I think back to Franklin’s comment at the end of the Constitutional Convention when the woman asked him what type of government the delegates have given the people. “A Republic if you can keep it”. Well, that’s pretty much gone now and will never return. Every president since FDR and some would say Lincoln has been called imperial but we now have a true emperor. “Ave Imperator, Nos morturi te salutamus”., if I remember my high school Latin correctly. I think I shall give up on this politics stuff. It is over.

    • Welcome back, glad to hear you are OK. Sorry your bad condition had to be followed by bad news.

    • Oh, Stephen … not you too? You’re going to blame Chris Christie for doing what common sense dictated? Do you really believe the takers won? The people who want stuff? It isn’t 1776 … there are a few more people living here now than back then … it’s a much more diverse population, that no longer precludes woman or minorities from voting … 1% of the population runs the remaining 99% … things have to change, brother. There’s no avoiding it. The fantasy BF preaches is that, a fantasy, no more real or possible than a communist utopia … but a hybrid of capitalism will have to happen sooner or later or things will fall apart and it will have little to do with people who want stuff. It’ll have much more to do with people who need stuff (jobs, healthcare, a roof over their heads, you name it) … the reason you guys lost has much more to do with a percentage of the new America your party ignores and villifies (minorities) … see Limbaugh and Levin’s comments about the Hispanic vote yesterday … great way to be inclusive. Hispanics I see standing on corners seeking work aren’t takers, brother. You got this one ass backwards. Rich, old, white men are fast becoming the minority … your numbers are dwindling … step out of the bubble and deal with reality … grasping onto an ideology 200 years old and ignoring reality is what got you yesterday’s election results …

      • Oh blah blah blah Charlie, you know good and well that Obama is not the one to change squat, especially when it comes to the control of the 1%. This election was the product of the control of the 1%, not an argument against it. Granted a Romney win would have been the same thing. From the standpoint of breaking from the status quo, Obama is no better than his opponent and you know it. You should try admitting it to yourself more often.

        • What a putz, you sometimes are, Jon. Did I say Obama would change anything? Please quote me next time. Show me where I said that. I said the GOP ignored the census realities of America in 2012. The Dems won because of it. Nothing will change until capitalism is broken down to a hybrid (at the least) … and it will, sooner or later, make no mistake. You’re in the severe minority, my man. It’s as obvious as the election results.

          So blah, blah, blah your own bad self …:)

          • You’re right, I read incorrectly, it all sort of ran together in my head, the something needs to change and the reasons Obama got elected. My bad, blah blah on me. 🙂

            • You’re okay, Jon. I trust me, I hear you. My blog tomorrow will piss off many of my so-called liberal writer friends (once again). To me, Obama is Bush on steriods … and althoug you and I disagree in which direction the country should turn, we’re both right about it needing some drastic changes, especially in the political process. 🙂

              • Oh yes, we definitely have some common ground there. Obama is indeed Bush on steroids, it always boggles my mind how many people don’t seem to notice that. Good on you for not being afraid to criticize “your party”, not that its really your party, but you know what I mean.

      • I have no problem thanking the President for showing up and showing his concern. Of course, that is his job, Bush blew it and blew it badly . As Katrina went on I can remember thinking what a masterstroke it would have been for him to send down the road for Cindy Sheehan (who was protesting at the front gate of Crawford and demanded to speak with him), jump into Marine One with her and fly over to New Orleans, land and have both of them hand out water bottles. The man could have turned his presidency around.

        Knowing a bit about government bureaucracy, I doubt that action, real action will be any quicker after Sandy than after Katrina. That’s just the way it is. You are fortunate in New York that the mayor and Governor are not complete incompetents. Christie, like the governor of Mississippi is competent and very visible because of the location and size of the state but still, there are the logistics of delivering everything from eggs (none up here for a week) to thousand horsepower generators.

        So my complaint with Christie is his effusiveness. “thank you Mr. president, we appreciate all your efforts, I and the people of NJ thank you”. Short sweet and to the point. Last night O’Reilly ran some interesting numbers regarding the undecideds who went with Obama purely because of his high post storm visibility which was certainly hyped. Did you hear Chris Matthews?.

        Charlie, I know immigrants, I have worked with them, I have led them in various construction projects. As I was telling a friend yesterday. I have never worked on a project in the Bronx or upper Manhattan with a single “born in the USA” American. These people are not terribly different from you or me for the most part. They have kids, values and families. The failure of Republicans and Conservatives is in allowing them selves to be lumped into the bogey man class of immigrant hating. If you are honest, and really listen to my Democratic friends, you cannot deny that our, my, opposition to unfettered illegal immigration is transformed in their sound bites to hatred of all immigrants. We allow them to get away with it. Since they own the big media and set the tone, I don’t know that we can ever get out the truth. As my daddy used to say, when I was young and dumb, “Son, your grandfather’s last address, before he got here, had a dirt floor”.

        We, competing with them over who can give away more just ain’t gonna work. People always go for real beer over the light stuff.

        I still have never received an answer to the question I have been throwing at my loyal (I hope) opposition for over a year. First, spell out for me, in detail, the country you see in 20 years if you got your hearts desire and second. Where is the money coming from? My vision is pretty simple, is fairly inclusive of things that have to happen to make it work and is pretty much pay as you go. I do not believe a problem can ever be solved overnight and wishing it were so never makes it so. That idea, is beyond juvenile it is infantile. Right up there wirth the tooth fairy.

        NB: On the immigrant experience, while the power outage remained, by lamplight I finished two books, “Duffy’s War” about Father Francis Duffy in the fighting 69th during WW 1. It was more about the “Irish” unit than about Duffy, lots of background. By accident, when I finished, I picked up a book my son gave me last Christmas called “the Fighting 69th’ About the “Irish regiment” in Iraq. In WW1, the unit was about 90 % Irish, mostly immigrant. By 2001 the unit was about 17% Irish with a total mish-mash of immigrants from Thailand, Africa, Burma, Santo Domingo, Haiti and places east and South. Know what? The author, a former Company commander, by page 20 concluded, there was not a dimes worth of difference between the current group and the group 90 years ago. Accidentally reading the two books in the order I did was a masterstroke. Could swear that some of the modern experiences were identical to those of their spiritual great grandfathers.

      • I can’t agree with Charlie yet.

        The Rep’s won 1/2 the vote. If one looks here it and it was worth anything, this election would be contested til the votes were counted over and over again for months.

        The Electoral College was a landslide.

        It means where Obama won, it was a close race.
        Where Romney won, he won in a landslide.

        This is the interesting characteristic of this election.
        I doubt it has to do with skin color or sex – though maybe it might, but I don’t see how.

        • Just proves -State Rights are the way to go.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          BF

          Actually BOTH candidates won in landslides and both won some close races.

          Obama won more of the close races.

          If you think back both parties identified the States that would be in play two years ago. There is a definite Red group and a definite Blue group. The others depend on situations, Candidates, and the campaign strategies of each party, etc.

          Race definitely plaid a role but what is not clear is how the URBAN vote overlaps with the “racial” vote. It could be that many supposed race votes for Dems are in fact more governed by the Urban experience.

          Check out the election maps and then zoom into County results. It is amazing how much geography is RED in those states that vote Blue for Pres and Senate.

          I do not think that this election is really telling us what so many want us to think it is telling us. I am not sure it means we have become Europe, at least not any closer than we were 4 years ago.

          • I do not think that this election is really telling us what so many want us to think it is telling us.

            This is what Marc Levin was saying last night. Never compromise! Stick to your principles! Fight Tyranny!

            And lose your asses off in elections … 🙂

    • Stephen,

      Good to hear from you & glad you made it thru ok, sorry about your friends loss. I think you nailed it with your comments. I think if Romney had won we would be facing a recession shortly. Now we are about to enter a major depression. Lead may become the most precious metal.

      http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/homeowners-issue-warnings-to-looters-following-superstorm-sandy/

  51. A Puritan Descendant says:

    It might seem at times if it were not for minorities and/or immigration the left would have no support……..

    The State of Maine is VERY White and is VERY Leftwing. Decades of treating/punishing business as evil has left the State with a vast majority of the entitlement crowd. Read comments on Bangor daily news sometime on politcal articles, it is enough to make one simply give up any hope. The motivated ones with any “get up and go” “got up and left” long ago.

    Charlie could easily be elected Governor here.

    • I’d love it, Puritan. I have no problem with all those “real Americans” up and leaving … good riddance, I say. Maine will be fine (has been actually). I may move there (if I can convince my wife that cold is better than hurricanes) someday. But, tell me, how are all those “real Americans” doing today? You know, the ones like you. I wonder how come they couldn’t get it done? What possible reason could that be?

  52. Allen West demands recount amidst ‘disturbing irregularities’
    Thomas Lifson

    In an election full of bad news for conservatives, the media reports of Allen West’s “defeat” in Florida was among the worst body blows. But all may not be lost. CBS News reports:

    Tim Edson, West’s campaign manager, issued a statement Wednesday morning calling for a “full hand recount of the ballots” in St. Lucie County, Fla.: “Late last night Congressman West maintained a district-wide lead of nearly 2000 votes until the St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections ‘recounted’ thousands of early ballots. Following that ‘recount’ Congressman West trailed by 2,400 votes.

    “In addition,” Edson continued, “there were numerous other disturbing irregularities reported at polls across St. Lucie County including the doors to polling places being locked when the polls closed, in direct violation of Florida law, thereby preventing the public from witnessing the procedures used to tabulate results.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/in_an_election_full_of.html#ixzz2BdscB7UH

    Todd says: (from above)
    November 8, 2012 at 1:17 am

    Yes, but Bachman barely won. We’ll see in two years…

    Scott Brown lost…Allen West lost…

    Alan Grayson was reelected…(got to wonder if you are happy with this one? I can’t imagine wanting him on my side of the bleachers, much less on my team and out on the field with me)

    Elizabeth Warren won…(Cherokee Pride? Has she gotten that law license yet? Frankly, does she have any ethics?)

    Claire McCaskill won…(and is or should be investigate on corruption like Jessey Jackson Jr. is right now.(who was in re-hab while re-elected)

    • Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. in talks with prosecutor?
      Rick Moran

      The usually reliable Michael Sneed of the Chicago Sun Times reports that Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. is talking about a plea deal with federal prosecutors relating to his alleged misuse of campaign funds:

      “No one has pled guilty, but plea discussions are ongoing,” said a top Sneed source, who said Jackson is still undergoing treatment at Mayo Clinic.

      Sneed is also told Jackson, who returned to Mayo Clinic after undergoing outpatient treatment in the seclusion of his home in Washington, D.C., is not only being investigated for allegedly using campaign funds to decorate his Washington home – but also Sneed hears he may also have used campaign funds to buy a $40,000 Rolex watch as a gift for a female friend.

      An heir apparent to the beneficence and largesse of the Jackson dynasty, Jackson has been immersed in a cloud of federal scrutiny for the past three years.

      In late 2008, Jackson, who desired the U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama when he became president, was also mentioned in connection with the “pay to play” sale of that Senate slot that led to the conviction of former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich. Jackson has always denied involvement and was never charged.

      Jackson never campaigned in 2012 and was re-elected despite returning for additional treatment to the Mayo Clinic.

      Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/rep_jesse_jackson_jr_in_talks_with_prosecutor.html#ixzz2Be4HHuYD

    • Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill’s husband used the U.S. Senate Dining Room to cut business deals selling tax credits tied to stimulus money, a whistle-blowing executive inside his company alleged on an audio recording exclusively obtained by The Daily Caller.

      “The thing that irritated me about this was he [McCaskill’s husband Joseph Shepard] entertained these outside investors in the Senate Dining Room,” the whistle-blower said. “That’s where he closed the deal.”

      The whistle-blower, Craig Woods, was a longtime high-ranking official within Shepard’s business empire, serving first as chief financial officer and then as vice president and chief underwriter for Missouri Equity Investors LLC and JA Shepard Companies.

      His LinkedIn page indicates he left the company in January 2011, a few months before debriefing a Republican operative who made the recording.

      According to the McCaskill campaign, Woods pled guilty in the 1990s in two different cases of felony larceny and spent some time in prison after that.

      The campaign also said that Woods lied to McCaskill’s husband about his past on his job application, and submitted a resume detailing “jobs” he held when he was actually in prison.

      “Craig Woods is a twice-convicted felon and a disgruntled former employee who lied repeatedly to Claire’s husband about his criminal past of fraud and embezzlement,” McCaskill spokeswoman Caitlin Legacki said in an email to TheDC in response to the allegations. “There is absolutely no merit to these claims.

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/18/whistle-blower-audio-sen-claire-mccaskills-husband-cut-business-deals-in-senate-dining-room/#ixzz2Benng12m

  53. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    You said my claims about Wisconsin were not true. Well here is one story on the State Legislature.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-wisconsin-legislaturebre8a62a8-20121107,0,1479088.story

    I also saw the Governor on TV last night stating exactly the same thing as in the Chicago article.

    And Ryan won his district by a margin of 55 to 43. That seems to be “pretty handily” to me.

    So exactly what was it that was not true about my post?

    • JAC,
      Show me some evidence that supports this:

      Wisconsin Republicans took back control of BOTH houses last night.

      • Todd, both houses of Wisconsin state legislature, not Congress. Obviously one state could not take control of both national houses. Context my friend.

        • No shit Jon. Get your head out of your ass.

          • Well then unless you are nitpicking over the language that they “took control of both houses” since they technically already had control of the state house, then I don’t understand your confusion.
            http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/gop-retakes-state-senate-and-full-control-of-state-government-cf7dluk-177591051.html
            If you are making all this fuss over semantics, then Im not the one with my head up my ass.

            • So did Democrats take back control of the US Senate Tuesday night?

              And did Republicans take back control of the House of Representative Tuesday night?

              It’s not semantics Jon. It’s called accuracy. Which is something you only seem interested in when it helps you.

              • No, but in my link it clearly states:
                “Republicans controlled all of state government during the last legislative session, but they lost the run of the Senate this summer after Democrat John Lehman defeated Sen. Van Wanggaard in a recall election in Racine County. Tiffany’s win gives Republicans the 17th seat they need to retake the majority.”

                Meaning they did not control the state senate. So they “retook both houses” in the sense that they did not previously have both houses, they only had one. And they have not controlled state assembly since 2010, they lost it in the recall election.

                It’s called accuracy. 🙂

              • Jon,

                Meaning they did not control the state senate.

                Yes, they did not control the Senate, so they retook the Senate.

                So they “retook both houses” in the sense that they did not previously have both houses, they only had one.

                They didn’t retake both houses – they already controlled the Assembly. How can you retake something you already controlled?

                And they have not controlled state assembly since 2010, they lost it in the recall election.

                You’re contradicting yourself. You just said “they only had one”. If they lost the Senate and the Assembly in the recall, what “one” did they control before the Nov 2012 election?

                They have controlled the Assemble since 2010. They did not lose the Assembly in the recall election – because according to our Constitution members of the Assembly can’t be recalled. Only members of the Senate and the Governor can be recalled.

                It’s called accuracy.

                Maybe in your little world your comments are accurate, but they’re not accurate in the real world.

              • When I said “Assembly” I was thinking “Legislature”. That was an error on my part, and as such, was inaccurate.

                The other part of this was the semantics foolishness I initially referred to. If I say “I now have both colors of my favorite football players jersey” It could mean that I bought both then, or that I bought one and already had one. It is not clear because it has more than one potential meaning, but it is not inaccurate. I understand that it may have sounded like the election represented a change in both houses, whereas it only represented a regain of both houses versus holding only one. It was stated in such a way as to be a little bit of a spin, perhaps, but it is not technically inaccurate. And the point was that Wisconsin’s state government is not split over the union fuss of last year, there is a “mandate” if you will to press forward with an agenda that cuts state spending.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Todd

        I just provided the evidence you requested. Is it false? Is the Governor wrong also?

        What is your evidence my claim is not true?

        • JAC,
          There’s nothing in your link about the Republicans taking back control of the Assembly. They’ve controlled that since 2010.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Todd

            They did NOT control BOTH houses.

            Now they DO.

            They regained control of BOTH houses.

            I can see if I had used “legislature” perhaps it would have calmed you irritation. But then again I’m not sure it would have really helped.

            Seems that everyone else understood the meaning.

            I guess it is in the eyes of the beholder. Kind of like understanding what “you didn’ build that” really meant.

            • JAC,

              They did NOT control BOTH houses.
              Now they DO.

              Correct.

              They regained control of BOTH houses.

              They didn’t regain control of BOTH houses – they already controlled the Assembly. How can you regain control of something you already controlled?

              I can see if I had used “legislature” perhaps it would have calmed you irritation. But then again I’m not sure it would have really helped.

              If you had said “they regained control of the entire legislature,” yes.

              Seems that everyone else understood the meaning.

              If by “everyone” you mean Jon, sure he “understood”, but he’s even more confused than you, so I wouldn’t take a whole lot of comfort in that.

              Kind of like understanding what “you didn’ build that” really meant.

              It really meant the infrastructure in our society, but I doubt you understand that as you seem to have trouble understanding the English language lately…

              I understand your point JAC, but you worded it wrong in your first post – and usually you’re a stickler for accuracy. It was late, I just responded as a joke to tweak you a little bit.

      • How about just state your case so we can all learn, teach?

        • Anita,
          Make sure you apply this “standard” to both sides here. JAC loves to tell people to “go back and read that again” instead of clarifying his point and teaching.

          • What..Ever! Is there a point you’d like to clarify right here or not?

            • Anita,
              I was just having some fun with JAC. I thought he would reread his source and see his error. Apparently I over-estimated.

              What is the point if we can’t have some fun here? There’s not much left to talk about on SUFA, and the discussions and opinions are quickly heading down the crapper…

              One thing I find very unsettling – the number of people/groups from the “Right” who say America is dead and/or they’re giving up on America – like LOI’s “Let It Bleed”. Now after the GOP lost the election, it’s a common theme from the “Right”.

              If anyone from the “Left” even hinted at that, you all would declare them Un-American and Un-Patriotic. But when the “Right” says it, its Holding Up American Values and Patriotic!

              Woo-ooh!!! At least you can “celebrate” that. Enjoy…

              • It is the curse of studying history and as the old man used to say, nothing stays the same, it can go up, it can go down but it can’t stay the same Todd. This is a body blow to me like none other. Lost a very good friend last month and feel exactly the same now as I did then. i know where my family came from and why they came here. The country has been good to us and I think we to it. When I was thirteen, on that cold January morning, I took to heart the words, “Ask not what your country can do for you”. I do feel it is all over. there is no sense of history anymore, who we are and why we truly are exceptional in the history of this entire planet. Ruth Bader Ginsberg can point with pride to the South African Constitution over our outmoded document but, without ours, nobody would have theirs if you can catch my drift.

                This totally incompetent buffoon, occupies the highest position in the land. He scoffs at the Constitution, the congress and the people. “His” way is the only way. Megalomania perhaps? Laws mean nothing, they can be thwarted through the courts who can ignore the intent and will of the people through their elected officials, something that was never intended. Czars and agencies running amok exceeding their authority unhampered by the legislative branch and routinely seconded by the oligarchy that is the Federal court system. Executive orders, dear God, executive orders. Where the hell did they come from? Where is that written into the constitution?

                A citizenry dumbded down who can tell you the last ten top finishers in “American Idol” but cannot name their representative, senator or Vice President but who have the right to vote. It is over,. This is a turning point for this country. There will be more Obama’s in the future, more petty Caesars until there is the one who will not leave. The one that cancels, for a good reason elections. But if the bread, circuses and American Idol continue, everything will be just fine. .

                Back in High School, during Latin and History classes, it was far cooler to admire Caesar than it was Cicero and I did. Then, one day, I got a little older and though Caesar was still way much cooler, Cicero was right. He called the end of the Republic, fought against its demise and ultimately paid with his life. Cicero was a one percenter and the 99% thought he was wrong. I feel a little like Cicero these days. If you are honest and you look at the past four years, you must admit that there is nothing, absolutely nothing that can stop Barack Hussein Obama from doing whatever he wants. On a very small scale, a micro scale, look what happened to our friend today who produced that stupid video about Mohammad. Should send shivers up your spine. If it doesn’t, then, to paraphrase Robert Kennedy, you have become part of the problem not the solution. The end never justifies the means.

                My mood, my thoughts I think are far from unpatriotic something I never accused the opposition of, until now. When Carter, Clinton and even Obama were elected I don’t remember the right “giving up on America” as you said. But now we have seen what this particular guy this nonentity who makes people feel good about supporting him is capable of. Libya, Egypt, fast and Furious, Benghazi, numerous “pay offs” to supporters in the form of phony energy grants. No attempt at all to even start getting to the bottom of why the economy collapsed and assigning responsibility. No action against the bankers and high rollers who backed him the first time around and also became the top 1/10th of one percenters with their collateralized mortgage obligation Ponzi schemes. Frank and Dodd retire with honor instead of spending time in the cell next door to Randy Cunningham who only personally benefited while they helped legions to make millions while selling America out as surely as if they sent the Chinese the plans for the latest Trident missile. I am not particularly sure that God is interested in blessing the United States anymore. We have got the president and the government we deserve now. 500 years down the road, the historians will puzzle over us and wonder how we, like the Romans, the most sophisticated societies of our times committed suicide.
                .

  54. A Puritan Descendant says:

    What is with Greece? It seems like they make an appointment/schedule to riot. As if they have to stop and go home to collect a check.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/athens_in_flames_as_protests_against_austerity_get_violent.html

  55. Just A Citizen says:

    One thing is certain about the election results.

    EVERYONE will over analyze the outcome, the reasons, etc. And MOST won’t have a clue in the end as to WHY people voted the way they did.

    The Narrative being driven so far is coming primarily from those who are trying to either undo the R’s or who are trying to grab power within the R party.

    But when you look much closer at each State you get a far more MIXED story than the one being told in the media today.

    Even the “demographic” narrative is suspect in my view. Because it is based primarily on lies. So what happens when truth prevails?

    • See Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, et al … Levin says yous guys should welcome INdians (from India, he said) and register them as Republicans because hispanics are “mostly illiterate anyway” … you gotta love it. Limbaugh’s idea of “connecting” was to say: “What do we have to do to get the Hispanic vote, open up all the borders and let the illegals in?”

      Lindsay Graham was suggesting something a bit smarter (but he’s a moderate Republican, a Rhino, so feel free to poke fun at him too). (paraphrasing) “There aren’t enough old white guys around for us to stay in business.”

      I suggest you all move to Alaska and cecede from the union … you can make Sarah Palin your poster child. (There I go insulting her again …):)

      • Half truths, half truths, half truths. Like the old reviews for bad movies. “One of the finest……best acted…..films of the decade”. Instead of “One of the finest examples of a failed hack director. Best acted role in the movie was the dead waterbuffalo. Will be among the worst films of the decade, any decade.” (apologies to the Mad Magazine of the 1950’s and 1960’s).

        I know your evil tricks.

    • JAC says ” Because it is based primarily on lies. So what happens when truth prevails?”

      The truth will never prevail in our lifetime JAC. History has shown that those who present the truth, which goes against mainstream thinking or beliefs, they are ridiculed, attacked, told they are nuts, arrested ect. Nothing is different today. People who present truth and the evidence to back it up are considered “conspiracy theorists”, nuts, kooks, ect. The people can’t handle the truth if it goes beyond what they are willing to believe. Those who refuse the truth resort to name calling, personnal attacks and demands for more and more evidence in an attempt to overwhelm the truth teller. It happens here alot, so as history has already proven, even here on SUFA, the truth will never prevail 😦

    • I’m certainly no expert on election break downs. But as far as I can see the Republicans have lost the youth/young adult vote. Without that, we are done. And it is the social issues-abortion and gay rights that controls their votes, IMHO. All the talk of the economy means next to nothing to a great number of them at this point in their life.

      • Thanks to our educational system.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        The Republican party has never had the YOUTH vote. So it didn’t lose something it never had.

        The difference in the last two cycles is the “turn out” of YOUTH voters.

        That is why the DEM party supports the kind of recruiting methods and voting procedures that they do. They can boost the ranks of those who might otherwise not take the time to register and then stand in line to vote on election day.

        You are correct in that many young voters, including many Republican Youth, don’t abide by the social issues of Gay Marriage and Abortion. I do not think those issues “control” their votes except that they reject efforts to make abortion illegal or impose restrictions on Gay Marriage. So in races where these issues simply remain on the back seat they will vote according to other issues. That includes the economy. But that leads us to the impact of our “education system”.

        What is not clear is whether it is true these voters will be lost to Republicans in the long run. If you look at the age break down of this election you see an increasing loss of Dem votes with each age group. This would indicate that as the current youth age, many will start voting Republican.

        Perhaps that is when the Economy and other issues start taking front seat.

        • VH
          “I’m certainly no expert on election break downs.” No, your not & neither am I, but I’ll take your opinion over most “experts” any day. Morning Joe is saying media bias had nothing to do with it, get over it. We had an ambassador murdered on 9/11 by Al-Qaeda. It’s still a non-story. We were hit with a major hurricane just before the election. Obama made a photo tour one day and left. The media have praised him where around 60% of voters think he did a great job. If it were a Republican, there would be a full assault.

          There are other factors, for sure. I heard some talking about Romney allowing the Democrats to define him. They ran negative & false adds and that was the message people got on where Romney stood & what his agenda would be. Not sure it has the impact the media does, most expect falsehood in political ad’s, but come to trust what the media tells them.

  56. JAC, it’s simple math. Minorities are fast becoming the majority. Your party, pre and post Bush, ignored Hispanics. Your radio talking heads poke fun at them, insulting them at every opportunity. Your rich white guys are dying off … it’s time to use a calculator if you’ve run out of fingers.

  57. I don’t know about any of the rest of my buddies on here, but I can definitively say that, I. AM. DONE!

    I am done with listening to the Liberal’s on here crow because their man, whose singular achievement in his four year stint as President, was driving through a very unpopular Health Care program and spent the remainder of his time blaming Bush for all of HIS (Obama’s) faults.

    I am done with a man who was reelected after dividing our nation as never before, both racially and politically. A man who was reelected with an almost 8% unemployment level. Even more if you count other levels such as underemployed and ethnic and age groups. Who was reelected because of dense population centers when most of the nation did not in fact vote for him. Who voted for him because, let’s face it, they want to keep them freebies going. A man who feels he can just STOP using all the normal fuels instantly and magically change to wind, solar, and other green sources of energy even though the technology for such sources has been proven to not work very well yet. And why did the Nation elect this jackass? Because he is just so likable! He’s just so Charismatic!! He is a ROCK STAR!!!! 😆

    I am done with listening also, to all of the pointless political and ideological wrangling that comes to no solution. That leaves us all even divided, because let’s face it, we are way too far apart to ever agree. And no amount of talking will ever make us come together. We both believe we are right. This even though their position is decidedly NOT the position of the American way, but more the position of the Socialistic Equality that the masses dream that we would have. You know, Fairness and Social Justice and all that Fairytale crap. And we. Oh yes, we. We have the dream of the America of maybe somewhere in the 1800’s. The 1800’s in the American West. Let’s face it guys. We ain’t ever gonna see that kind of freedom again. We’re a whole heck of a lot more likely to get to try some of that there Social Justice The Obama-ites keep shoving down our throats and up our butts (and let’s see how you liberals like it then). It shore don’t look like we’re ever gonna go back any.

    That’s why I am done. I have had it. Maybe some day, with the way Obama and his minions keep dividing us (y’all do know that this is one way of keeping us powerless don’t you?? BOTH SIDES??), we will actually truly divide (as in Civil War). Maybe it’s inevitable when a nation becomes as divided as ours is. Maybe we will never go back to being a Nation of just Americans. One Nation, Under God, Indivisible.

    I hope not, to tell you the truth. But it clearly is not up to me. It is up to the Federal Government. And I ain’t gettin’ my hopes up.

  58. Listen to the video … yous really need to listen for a change.
    http://www.salon.com/2012/11/08/must_see_monologue/

    • Well, Ms. Maddow in the same Spirit.-KISS MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • I believe, VH, that is EXACTLY what Ms. Maddow is counting on … that reaction. It worked great for you Tuesday night.

        double the deficit, 7.9% unemployment (15-20% real unemployment), yada, yada, yada, yada … and bada-boom, bada-bing, 4 more years

        • What reaction-I simply pared her long winded rant down and returned her exact message right back at her.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Spousal Unit Leader can not stand that woman. One of the few pundits I have seen her verbally react to when she is on the TV.

            One of her criticisms is her long winded and deliberately convoluted discussions. That and the constant “arrogant smirk on her face”. That is a quote by the way.

            🙂

        • And—-Yes 4 more years of high deficits, high unemployment, yada yada yada-and you claim we are the stupid ones.

          • Yeah, but if Romney won, you have exactly the same thing.

            Yet you think the other guy is stupid.

            Partisan politics is so bizarre.

            • Ah, that word Exactly-is it ever really true.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              BF

              Not EXACTLY the same. That is where your analysis fails.

              You agree that you can’t pull the knives out all at once, that small steps are better than no steps, then you say that small steps of any kind are the SAME THING.

              Reason requires that we deal with the real world in which we live. That means dealing with the political system as it exists, while working to eliminate, revise or fix it. To move it closer to freedom and not farther away.

              But of course your off the hook. Since Romney did not win there is absolutely no way to KNOW what might have been.

              • Reason requires that we deal with the real world in which we live. That means dealing with the political system as it exists, while working to eliminate, revise or fix it. To move it closer to freedom and not farther away.

                So to move it closer to freedom you seek to give those in power more power. Perfect logic and reason there, JAC. No wonder your team got their asses kicked last night.

                I’m curious, though … have you ever heard Rachel Maddow call someone a name half as off-putting as Moochelle?

                Not that Limbaugh bothers you, I’m sure (another reason your asses were kicked last night—Limbaugh’s influence over the spineless Romney).

                On this BF is right … the particulars make no difference. Obama was more Bush than Bush regarding bailouts, never protecting workers and giving the store away. Who says Romney wouldn’t have done the same things? He is the guy responsible for Romneycare, after all …:)

              • Absolutely I know what would have happened with Romney winning – nothing significantly different then Obama winning.

                The excuses my change – but the actions and consequences would not.

                Public Choice doctrine is the dominating politics – it is irrefutable. Neither party is capable of opposing the demand for more entitlements, more spending and no cuts. There is no way to increase taxes without facing massive tax revolt.

                There is no real political difference between the socialist/fascists that is the American politic scene.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        This is my SHOCKED FACE………………………………….

        Anita………….Mom just used a bad word………………..ROTFLMAO.

        Hey V, my son had something to offer on the YOUTH vote. This won’t make you feel better but it might reduce your stress over a few particular points.

        He said that many of those he knows who voted for Obama did so for no other reason than they want to be COOL. They want to be able to tell their million FACEBOOK FRIENDS that they voted for Obama. He said most people his age have little understanding nor do they make any effort to understand ISSUES.

        So now consider that in the context of the DEMs and the Obama Campaign focusing on the New Social Media. Can you say lessons in how to influence the young? His age group is the 18 to 30 group.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          V.H.

          Just found this buried in some comments on Red State. I have not seen summaries of all this data but this comment should lift your spirits a bit.

          “Ironically, we only won the +65 vote by 12. It’s not like we blew it out. And remember that Romney actually won under 30 voters by 9 points – among those who are married. So it’s more of a cultural divide than a generational divide. The ones that grow up and have families and work hard will become “those are are 65+” at present.”

          I had not seen that data showing Romney winning MARRIED people under 30. Very interesting. Kind of goes to my son’s comment.

          • Yeah, it’s a great strategy, JAC. Your spirts should be flying about now …:)

            • And what exactly do you think our plan should be Charlie, are we supposed to abandon ALL our principles in order to get elected.

              • Nah, abandoning all of your principles is not a winning strategy — case in point, Romney.

              • What about your principles Buck-does Obama fit all of them? Romney fit quite a few of mine.

              • My point is that who knows what Romney’s principles are anymore — he abandoned any principles he may have once held in the hopes that he could win the Presidency. Didn’t work out to well for him, now did it?

              • Please, don’t talk to me about Romney-before you take a Real look at Obama. They are both guilty of playing “political games”.

              • VH, I have taken a real look at Obama, and I’ve criticized him many times.

                But what I can’t quite comprehend is your support for Mitt “the father of Obamacare” Romney. Every single political position he has taken in his lifetime, he has backtracked. What principles do you really believe he even has?

              • Let’s see I have a choice of a man who did something in a State-that little thing called State rights which I agree with, which the people of the State wanted or a guy who with the help of his flunkies did every underhanded thing they could do, to force it on the whole country. I pick Romney. Romney was for abortion than against it-Obama-no limits whatsoever-I pick Romney. Romney-lets help people without bankrupting the Country. Obama-lets just throw money at the problem and worry about the consequences, which he admits are gonna be bad-Later. I pick Romney.
                Energy-Romney lets use all our resources to strengthen our Economy. Obama-lets do only green energy, lets increase the cost of coal and anything else to the point we are paying 9 dollars a gallon and all the coal mines go bankrupt,Until it is convenient to take credit for the increase which he wants to stop. I pick Romney. Romney-don’t know what he will do on foreign policy. Obama-sits around and lets our people die. Won’t answer questions until after the investigation. But guess what-he knows right now, what decisions he made and why he made them-so why doesn’t he answer. I pick Romney.

              • Sigh. Just your first two examples:

                Romney supported Romneycare for the country before he opposed it (for the election). Who knows what he really thinks.

                Romney supported abortion before he was against it (for the election). Who knows what he really thinks.

              • Sigh-right back at you. Obama does what ever he wants to-whenever it’s convenient-whether the people want it or not-no matter what laws he has to break to do it. Doesn’t care what anyone thinks but his self.

                And how about Bengazi-you guys on the left have been very silent about that little episode? And how about his changing his mind “supposedly” on energy-any comments on his flip flops. How about his deporting so many illegal immigrants before he decided not too-or actually during the time he said he wasn’t gonna.? Any comments on anything the man has done. Like not enforcing the laws of the land. Like blackmailing companies so they wouldn’t give out notices of possible lay offs-which the democrats actually put into law? Any comments -or is all you care about that Romney changed his position.

              • Buck,

                But you have to have principles first to abandon.

                Got any yet?

              • “Sigh”

              • BF,

                You raise a good point — did Romney have any principles to begin with? Are his initial positions even his own, or just what he believed he needed to say at the time?

                Otherwise I’ll ignore your juvenile attempt to throw this whole discussion back at me. A for effort though!

              • And STILL no principles from Buck.

        • JAC..I LOVE IT when V gets riled up. I sit here and crack up..I wanted to scratch something to her comment earlier but the baby had me running at the time. VH ROCKS 🙂

          • btw..I sooo wanted to fill in her blanks to Charlie yesterday 🙂

            • 🙂 Me too!

              • Go crazy … this is, after all, a “freedom and liberty” site, right? Yous are sounding like awful sore losers to me …:)

                But harken not, my dears … tomorrow is another day … and another set of excuses … will they go with Christie or drive him to the other party? Will they push Bush to the forefront or is his having married a “mostly illiterate Hispanic” a disqualification? And what about Paul, I can’t win my own state, Ryan? Or Mr. 999, the token African-American fella? Or maybe it’ll be Newt’s turn … again. Or Rick (I love living in the 14th Century) Santorum? Oy vey …

              • And what’s worse than a sore loser? You’ve been having plenty of fun for a couple days. What’s hilarious is that you’re going down with the rest of us and you don’t realize it. But good sports that we are..we’ll drag you along just for the laughs.

          • Having a baby to “occasionally” 🙂 take care of, would rock. I’m so jealous!

          • I think the problems with Jeb revolve around his wife once trying to sneak a $ 10,000 piece of jewelry into the country without paying duty and getting caught. There is also a problem with one of the kids and some serious drug action. That Mrs. Bush, unlike the other two has an “imperial” Grandee style.

            My boys never go for the throat. If Romney killed the guys wife, never paid any taxes, has bundles of money (probably drug money) in the Caymans and ships off all the good jobs to China then the least they could have done is run a 30 second commercial as scripted below.

            Still Picture:

            Irish American Athlete, Ralph Rose, carrying American Flag past the reviewing stand in 1908 Olympics in London.

            Newspaper Headline:

            “Athlete Insults King of England by not dipping flag”

            Still picture of athlete, with running banner under photo, Rose’s Team mate’s actual quote , “This flag dips to no earthly King'”

            Twenty seconds of pictures of Obama bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, the premier of China, the Prime Minister of Japan and everybody else. Final still photo, split screen of Olympian carrying flag and Obama bowing. Narrator: “On November 6th, you chose the America you want”.

            See, I like to go for the throat. Win, lose or draw, tell it like it is.

  59. And from the echo chamber, deep in the recesses of the GOP Grover Nordquist balcony, comes a resounding cheer .. Sarah! Sarah! Sarah! Listen, by now, somebody must have taught her basic geography. So long as she can wink and memorize bullet points, if yous can keep her from on the spot interviews, yous should be fine … your base, I mean. The rest of us sure know better … you betcha we do!

  60. Great article by one of our mentors at Southern New Hampshire University …. I’m sure most of yous will love it 🙂
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/opinion/our-latest-high-water-mark.html

    • Interesting but. I have the feeling that the man made part of the global warming thing is getting pretty old. Sun spots are the more likely culprit so, how do we deal with it? We have all set down our roots here along the coast. Is it time for dikes? This one needs a lot of thought. Before jumping to conclusions, we should think back to the immediate quasi scientific reaction to Katrina. More and more storms, more and more often. Did not happen.

      This storm was unusual in my memory because of it’s lateness. I’ve been through a bunch since I was a kid but a hurricane in late October? Couple that with normal winter weather changes and you do have something we have either not seen before or have not seen in a long time.

      Or, then again, maybe God is just mad at us. Wouldn’t blame Him too much.

  61. Well now, as we continue to slowly lose our freedoms, here’s one that might make everyone feel safer. http://www.prisonplanet.com/poll-nearly-one-third-of-americans-would-accept-tsa-body-cavity-search-in-order-to-fly.html A new survey commissioned by Infowars and conducted by Harris Interactive has found that almost one third of American adults would accept a “TSA body cavity search” in order to fly, with a majority of Americans also feeling a law that would make disobeying a TSA agent in any public place illegal is reasonable.

    The shock results emphasize the level of indignity Americans are willing to tolerate in order to travel.

  62. Rep. Ron Paul, whose maverick presidential bids shook the GOP, said in the wake of this week’s elections that the country has already veered over the fiscal cliff and he sees no chance of righting ship in a country where too many people are dependent on government.

    “We’re so far gone. We’re over the cliff,” the Texas Republican told Bloomberg Television’s “In the Loop” program. “We cannot get enough people in Congress in the next 5-10 years who will do wise things.” The video can be seen at http://www.bloomberg.com/video/ron-paul-on-fiscal-cliff-and-vows-to-compromise-MYkAiqYBTaiHwXZL9Tvxkw.html.

    Mr. Paul, who is retiring after 12 terms in the House, said voters on Tuesday rejected Mitt Romney because he had opposed the government bailout of General Motors and Chrysler.

    “The people in the Midwest voted against him: ‘Oh, we have to be taken care of!’ So that vote was sort of like what we are laughing at in Greece,” Mr. Paul said.

    “People do not want anything cut,” he said. “They want all the bailouts to come. They want the Fed to keep printing the money. And they don’t believe that we’ve gone off the cliff or are close to going off the cliff. They think we can patch it over, that we can somehow come up with some magic solution. But you can’t have a budgetary solution if you don’t change what the role of government should be. As long as you think we have to police the world and run this welfare state, all we are going to argue about is who will get the loot.”

    Read more: Ron Paul: Election shows U.S. ‘far gone’ – Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/nov/8/ron-paul-election-shows-us-far-gone/#ixzz2BgFa6mOZ
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

  63. Oh Good Grief-wait until you read this-this man is really unbelievably obnoxious or maybe just selfish-or heck maybe he’s even doing things that are simply illegal -so he can’t tell the other dems. what his actual ground game is. Who knows-but it sure as hell isn’t because of the reason they gave.

    Team Obama: ‘You Can’t Transfer’ Our Ground Game to Other Democrats

    by Tony Lee 8 Nov 2012, 4:01 PM PDT 3 post a comment
    David Plouffe, one of the Obama campaign’s most senior advisers, on Thursday said the Obama administration’s vaunted ground game and data sets could not be transferred to generic Democrats. Plouffe’s comments suggest that Election Day was more about Obama’s appeal to liberal voters than an ascendancy of liberalism, which many pundits and journalists have been claiming in the election’s wake.

    When asked on the Obama campaign’s final conference call of the election cycle whether Obama’s ground game could be used as effectively by other Democrats, Plouffe said, “you can’t transfer this,” referring to Obama’s micro-targeting strategy that exceeded conventional expectations on Election Day.

    Plouffe said “the only reason why this happened on the ground in 2008 and 2012” was because of the “relationship between [Obama voters] and our candidate.”

    According to Plouffe, “people are not going to spend hours away from their families and jobs” if they do not believe in the candidate.

    Plouffe said without a candidate like Obama, who has an “emotional appeal” to supporters, even the best voter lists or the “best technology” will not be effective in mobilizing voters.

    Obama’s chief strategist David Axelrod said team Obama reinvented the campaign with “new tools” and they had a “game plan” from the beginning and “executed it.”

    But Axelrod also acknowledged and conceded the campaign was not about “metrics” but about people organized around Obama.

    The Obama campaign essentially united the Obama coalition by disuniting America into various racial and gender groups and pushed issues that compelled those in his coalition to go to the polls.

    But the only unifying principle around which Obama’s coalition congealed was essentially Obama. The campaign branded the Democratic National Convention with the campaign’s “O” logo, symbolizing the campaign was more about Obama than about the triumph of progressive values and ideology.

    By the Obama campaign’s own admission, election 2012 was more about the cult of Obama’s personality than about the so-called “ascendancy of liberalism.”

    Obama — as was the case during the 2010 midterm elections — will not be on the ballot anymore, which means Democrats , no matter how talented their data geeks are, will have a lot more trouble in subsequent election cycles trying to cobble back the Obama coalition without Obama at the top of the ticket.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/08/Team-Obama-You-Can-t-Transfer-Our-Ground-Game-To-Other-Democrats

    • Just A Citizen says:

      V.H.

      I think it is an accurate assessment of their game plan. Both in 08 and 12.

      “Cult of Obama’s Personality” pretty much sums it up. I would only add that those hard core lefties, the big P Progressives thought THEIR leader had finally arrived. So for them it was more than JUST his personality. He made them FEEL good and hopeful.

  64. The more the data comes in, the less I think Charlie is right.

    8 of 10 Richest Counties Voted for Obama… and overwhelmingly.

    In the richest, Massachusetts’ Nantucket County, where average annual household income is over $137,000, Obama won by 63 percent to Romney’s 36 percent with all precincts reporting. . . .

    In none of the richest counties was the margin of victory wider than in California’s Marin County, just north of San Francisco, where the president won by 74 percent to 23 percent, with all precincts reporting. In Marin, the average annual household income is $128,544.

    I do not think the demographic change has anything to do with skin color or men vs women.

    I think it has to do with welfare entitlements and liberal education.
    Most college professors and teachers are liberals and what the teacher teaches the student learns.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      BF

      Now your getting somewhere.

      It is Location, location, location.

      Beyond the President, there are a few races where they are decided along “predictable” party lines. But the others come down to LOCAL issues and feelings about the Candidates.

      It is starting to look like even the big “Hispanic” vote increase was not real. And what there was, was the YOUNGER voters.

      The Asians actually had the largest move from R last time to Obama this time. So exactly what was it that the Republican party did to alienate the Asians? I’ll bet we are going to be hearing it was the threats of getting tough with China!! 🙄

      I saw some more detailed breakdowns tonight and the demographics of the Romney vs. Obama votes were not significantly different than McCain vs Obama. EXCEPT that Obama LOST votes among ………………….. BLACKS…..

      AND……

      Romney had about 2 to 3% LESS WHITE votes than McCain. From something like 75% to 72%.

      As I said yesterday, or was it today, I think many of the “conclusions” being thrown around about the election are simply wrong. Which leads me to think that if we follow the commentary we will see the desired path of those who pull the strings.

      In fact I think Todd, Mathius and Buck have provided much of the explanation relative to the “independents” or the “disaffected Dems” that some thought Romney would get. Whether it is fair or not doesn’t matter but they had a standard for Romney to meet before they would switch their vote.

      Romney DID NOT meet that criteria. When faced with two guys who flip, flop, change positions or promises, they preferred to stay with the guy who they came to the dance with.

      Romney got 2.2 million less votes than McCain got.

      Obama got 8.9 million FEWER votes this time than he did in 08.

      But nobody is talking about the 11 million who STAYED HOME. Except of course the R’s who are trying to blame the Libertarians and stupid Tea Party people.

    • Then you have to reject the Rich, rascally Republican concept. That would really hurt the folks at the “NY Times” and NPR.

    • Now that makes sense. Because those earning those high incomes are surely on welfare … duh.

    • As always, excellent point!

      Nice to have numbers,

      Thanks.

  65. @ STephen: It is the curse of studying history and as the old man used to say, nothing stays the same, it can go up, it can go down but it can’t stay the same Todd. This is a body blow to me like none other. Lost a very good friend last month and feel exactly the same now as I did then. i know where my family came from and why they came here. The country has been good to us and I think we to it. When I was thirteen, on that cold January morning, I took to heart the words, “Ask not what your country can do for you”. I do feel it is all over. there is no sense of history anymore, who we are and why we truly are exceptional in the history of this entire planet. Ruth Bader Ginsberg can point with pride to the South African Constitution over our outmoded document but, without ours, nobody would have theirs if you can catch my drift.

    I’ll only address this one paragraph (don’t have time today), but here’s something you’re ignoring, Stephen. With all due respect, please understand what I’m saying. “Your heartfelt appreciation for Kennedy’s famous line, as well as your family’s appreciation for what they could accomplish here are somewhat offset by what millions of others had an infinitesimal (if any) shot at; a fair shot. The voting rights act doesn’t happen when Kennedy makes that speech. Forget slavery, if you choose, but an entire race of people were severely discriminated against across the board 100 years after the end of the civil war (it took that long for a voting rights act). No amount of federal laws were going to protect those who needed protection (some may call it being nannied, but those same “some” probably weren’t treated as harshly as blacks). The bootstrap theory is a much easier glass of kool-aid to swallow if you were white; that’s a fact of life in 1963 (the time you referenced). What has happened since is more a mixed bag than bootstrap pulling ability, but we can argue that another day.

    Things do change … sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. “The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people.” You can reject Marx whenever and however you want, but have fun trying to disassociate that from American Idol, the Ipad, video games, etc.

    I and my wife argue often about the old vs. the new days (the present). I too prefer the simpler existence of the 1960’s, but I don’t kid myself about why. I was a white kid from a firmly blue collar family forced to attend Catholic school and be an altar boy (a religion I reject in total these days). This, of course, before my family fell apart and my Mom went from owning two homes to having to rent while I was in high school. Yes, she worked hard and was able to support us (my father provided minimal help), but still, I wasn’t a black kid living in Mobile Alabama or East New York, for that matter (where my parents couldn’t work for livings that afforded them a home and/or the choice of which schools to attend). I had opportunities I had no idea meant anything. Those black kids didn’t. The bootstrap arguments can be applied anecdotally to VERY FEW blacks and Hispanics compared to their overall population.

    I understand your frustration and in some way I share it, but the ideology of 1776 no longer applies not because “the people who want stuff” won … more because the inequities of our economic system are finally reaching a point of no return. There are simply too many useless people for all the wonderful gadgets the 1% has figured out can earn them money …

    • My friend, everything you say is valid to a greater or lesser degree. In sociology or in neighborhood preservation, there is this thing called a “tipping point”. It is like the Titanic’s fifth waterproof compartment flooding. There is only one place to go.

      I have tried to never be stuck in the past. Were I or JFK unaware of what had and still was happening in parts of this country in 1961? I don’t think so. I think we both saw the change that, like a juggernaut, was coming. Maybe not fast enough but the signs were all there. Never mistake anything I say for some quaint view of the past. there are immutables and should be, Change is not always good, Radical change is really not good. Back in 1st Year High School, I learned the scientific method. I daresay most High School Seniors today would draw a blank if you even said Scientific method to them. Condom placement sure, scientific method, no so much. Anyway, way back then I kinda saw hypothesis, experimentation, result, experiment again and again and then confirm the result as the way to go, for everything.

      It is like my view and my best professor’s view of psychology. Since Freud, people were trying very hard to make it a science, fully aware of its vagaries and variables which worked against them. Finally, they gave up. It was easier, and a lot more fun to just tell everybody it was ok to do their own thing and excuse it by saying it was normal. I do not reject everything Marx said. Hell, even Hitler made some good points. Pol Pot too. He certainly could not have captured the imagination of so many if he had always been wrong. Unfortunately though, his system failed under trial in the real world. I keep pointing to the most successful form of Communism, the Israeli Kibbutz finally failing. The idea is there, the idea, very non-Randian is actually very noble but once you screw flesh and blood human beings into it , it fails. We are not interchangeable nor are we insects except in some weird science fiction scenario. I knew quite a few of my contemporaries who went off to found or live in communes back in the ’60’s . I also saw how disappointed they were when they returned. Most, never gave up on the idea but never understood that the failures they witnessed were endemic to human beings. Hence, my constant analogy to those French WW1 Generals, “It’s not the machine guys boys, it is your lack of elan!” (see Kirk Douglas’s “Paths of Glory).

      Going away for a few days, back soon.

      Here’s a follow up for you to think about. Did you finish 8 years of Catholic Grammar school? If so, how much credit would you give it for the skills you have developed both as a writer and a thinker?

      PS, read the “Last Angry Man” by Gerald Green (1956) for an interesting first hand though novelized view of Brownsville/East New York in the ’30’s ’40’s and ’50’s. I overuse the word, but it is instructive.

  66. Good Morning, JAC……..I have been reading along on all of this and well, there is only one thing to say…..the American people are going to get what they deserve and I am glad to see it. I am prepared. When the stock market goes to hell in 2013, we are prepared for we are not in it any longer…when the taxes go up we are prepared because we are liquid and we will not invest for the foreseeable future (next three or four years anyway), unless we see a good bargain to pick up for pennies on the dollar. With no investments, there is no tax. We all have positioned ourselves to not increase our incomes and since we are independent we can control our own destiny. We are going to continue to get $80,000 per year to NOT grow corn that we do not grow any way. We are a ranch, not a farm, but that does not matter to the Federal Government. They do not let us NOT take it…they keep sending it to us and we NEVER applied for it to begin with. In the past, we have given it to charity……figure this, the government gives us tax free money to not grow corn, they won’t stop, refuse to let us give it back, and then we give it to charity and are allowed a tax deduction on tax free money…..go friggin figure. For the next foreseeable future, charity is going to lose. We are going to keep it now. What the hell, it is tax free and we will not need the offset reduction for our own taxes. They will be minimal and far less than they have been. We will cherry pick any charitable contributions and give directly. What we have seen growing, is the “something for nothing crowd” going to charity claiming poverty and all the while they are driving nice cars, have food stamps, government housing, free medical care, and all the stuff responsible people pay for….enough is enough.

    The “get something for nothing” crowd won. Pure and simple. I am glad to a point, because there will be no excuses now. The repubs cannot be blamed. Most business’ that we are associated with, independent business’, are going to wait it out. IT will come full swing but in the meantime, the middle class is going to get hammered so badly….and they will be blind to it but they will deserve it. The real greedy out there? It is not business…….it is the get something for nothing group….and they are the majority and not the minority. But………they will soon see, the government is broke and those things are not going to be there…..it is time for rock bottom.

    The Fed will do their thing and credit will all but dry up. There is plenty of money out there but it is going to become stagnant….and people will say, what happened? Texas is going to be a great place to live….so if things get tight….come on down. It is interesting, Texas has the second most in Hispanic population……it is funny to see that Obama got only 42 percent of the total vote and that included minority and Hispanic votes. It did not fit the demographic that seems to permeate some of the other states……Texas will survive quite nicely. What we have done, is that Texas is refusing government funds and the “get something for nothing” crowd goes elsewhere because you have to actually be in need to receive aid here. Texas defied the voter ID rulings and you had to have proof of residency…and electric bills and water bills do not prove residency. What is next? Texas will refuse Federal funding for medicare and medicaid and is going to have its own medical care. Doctors are not going to take it (medicare and medicaid) anyway, that is what we are seeing. We like our independence and it is swinging more that way very quickly. We still have no state income tax and are not going to..it is not on the table. We balance our budget and spending, and we have an open shop state. We have immigration but we handle our immigration through job availability. You simply cannot move here and claim poverty and live off the government because anybody that understands how government works will also understand that it is the state that runs the programs under Federal funding. If your state refuses government funding, there is no program. You will see Texas take the lead in several areas and I think you will see several states follow suit….or they should. Texas actually prepared quite well and we have Hispanics is all branches of State government. We elected Cruz to the Senate and he got my vote but he is also a fiscal conservative and sees the reality of things. Texas will adopt its own immigration rules. We will stop the drugs, which we have quite nicely, but Texas has very quietly put into place an immigration policy that says you have to have a job to come here. Employers, Texas employers, have set up job fairs on the border. All of our agriculture and industrial companies participate…..through a joint effort…..and recruit through these job fairs. To work in Texas, you better go through the job fairs which the immigrants attend, and then have a place to go. Families are welcome and productive people are hired. Other states need to do this. (We actually see a great opportunity to start a new business to recruit Hispanics at the border for companies throughout the United States and then these immigrants can get work visas and permits to work in the US legally and not worry about being deported). When you get agriculture and industry together in the recruiting market, it eliminates the illegal immigrant from the process. IT is becoming increasingly hard to find work in Texas as an illegal because companies are now hiring at the border and helping them get legal status….what does this do? It puts responsible people on the payrolls, provides tax revenue for the State and provides tax revenues for the Feds and you have fewer people on the dole. When you drive by the Home Depots and the Lowes now, you do not see huge groups of people standing around anymore. There is strong compliance with construction crews and they are routinely checked now and are beginning to go through the job fairs.

    But, the main thing, is our State management. Refusing Federal funds and doing our own through our own budget and verifying……is eliminating the loafers. Making people actually qualify for help…is eliminating the loafers. Balancing our budget and not running in the red……is eliminating our loafers. Understanding job fairs and organizing business’……is eliminating our loafers. Having no State income tax and only a franchise tax….is an environment for bringing in outside business…but do not bring your unions because we have people willing to work for far less. Unions are welcome in Texas and you are free to join or not join…..freedom of choice. If there are unfunded liabilities in your work place…..do not come to Texas for loans. They do not exist. Federal banks are becoming rare. It is things like this that will make a State. Our cities are now having to balance their unfunded liabilities (retirement and pension plans) because Texas will not put in money to balance the city budgets for unfunded liabilities. If you have fiscal responsibility, and do not rely on government, it works quite well.

    Enough of this……come on down and crack some suds.

    • Buon giorno, Colonel! The Captain of Canollidom says, ha, ha, ha … nice fantasy. The Hispanics in your state, from what I saw on a map, will be the majority there the same way they’ll be the majority throughout the US&A … their population is growing and soon Texas, too, will turn Democrat … the loafers will outnumber the bootstrapping crowd before you know it. Texas will be the first of the solid south to turn Democrat, my friend… no doubt about it. I can’t wait to see the population numbers come 2016 in Texas … by 2020, it’s a done deal.

      What are your businesses paying them down there with, buttons?

      Join the parade, Colonel … canolli for everybody! Pluto is around the corner …

      Hope all is well by you and yours,

      • Hate to inform you, my friend, they are already a majority…..but we have the good ones. No parade to join, my conolli friend……we are far too independent and we have planned for it and you forget…..Texans OWN Pluto…..we just let you live there. Everything is well with us….and I hope you also.

        • Charlie…..have you not understood what a Texas Democrat is? It is NOT an Eastern Democrat….hell, we do not have to worry about Eastern Democrats…..they cannot handle our summers here…..

        • but we have the good ones.

          Oh, Colonel, you so disappointment me with this. I know you don’t mean what you just wrote (I hope to Christ you don’t) … but that’s EXACTLY the kind of talk that’ll get you another Obama-Romney in 2016 … no matter who runs for which side.

    • A Puritan Descendant says:

      “The repubs cannot be blamed” wanna bet? 🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Those are the best words I’ve read in several days..comforting. Because it CAN be done, in fact IS being done. Time for all of us to get our states thinking in Texas mode or be willing to move to a more independent state. I’m game..not sure Texas is my choice, too damn hot..I’ll be an empty nester , sort of, in 2016 and I can totally picture a move to another state. Hopefully I will not be able to see my neighbor’s house…unless his house is across the lake 🙂

  67. @ BF………going to be interesting times, eh?

  68. To those on the Eastern Coast…….good luck. Hope all of you came through ok.

  69. A Puritan Descendant says:

    During breaks in PBS programs in the late evenings I have seen/heard the following statement many times, “The opposite of poverty is not wealth, the opposite of poverty is Justice”. They don’t elaborate on where this quote came from. Is this an attempt at brainwashing or am I now a conspiracy nut???

    I searched this quote and found it has to do with Bryan Stevenson, Executive Director of the Equal Justice Initiative . Without reading much of it, I assume it came from the fact so many poor people are sent to prison without a good legal defense.
    http://www.changethewind.org/2012/03/opposite-of-poverty-is-justice.html

    “The opposite of poverty is justice”, sounds like something Charlie would agree with 100%, Yes? No?

    • Oh crap, Puritan…….the minute you agree with Charlie…..all hope is lost. But, we have a spot reserved for you on Pluto.

      • A Puritan Descendant says:

        “Agree with Charlie” YIKES! 🙂

        Here is a little story from my youth. My father worked delivering milk/poultry to grocery stores. He made very little. When he died in the late 80s he was making 6 dollars an hour. He and my mother raised 4 children. We all ate well and were well taken care of. When I was quite young my father would come home from work and after dinner, he and my mother and my older brother would all go work for $1.00 and change/hour doing cleaning/janitor work to help pay the bills, while my older sister would keep us younger ones out of trouble. They had no government assistance. There was one time that my mother tried to get me to accept free school lunches, but I was too embarrassed to take it, so I starved for a couple days until my mother quit on the idea. I can only remember one kid in my school getting free lunches and he was looked down on at the time. When I was a teenager my mother got a waitress job so she could loan me money to learn a trade.

        My, how attitudes have changed! How many would work like that today with handouts so easy for the taking now. My parents did not get free food, free heat, free medical, and certainly not a free phone, or other free ‘stuff’.

        • Yep….the worm has turned…..if you are independent and not relying on government and the freebies, you are the one ostracized….and laughed at.

          • A Puritan Descendant says:

            I had to explain to my own daughter, “NO you do not pretend you are poor so you can have extra Christmas presents delivered to your door like your needy friends!” Double YIKES!!

      • This one makes it to my blog, Colonel! I love it!

  70. @ BF…….. Are you watching Europe? Spain’s credit rating is about to be lowered. The Euro is taking a pounding….Our own dollar is about to take a gigantic hit and I would not be surprised if the credit on the US is lowered again. The stocks are taking another huge hit. Everyone knows that spending will increase again…..and the markets are reacting.

  71. You gotta love it……..Iranian warplanes tried to shoot down an unarmed drone monitoring shipping traffic..they missed. The Administration did not report it prior to the election because the mission was “classified”…..but they forgot…………………unarmed surveillance of shipping lanes in International waters is not a classified mission….but even more so…………………..Iranians, flying outdated Russian fighters with non calibrated guns, could not hit a drone flying at 130 MPH…….this is an example of a formidable air force? Their air defense is no better……Go ahead, Israel….have a field day.

    Oh, I know the administration will not do it because of their appeasement Kumbaya attitude…..but I would have an ambush set up the next time and when an Iranian fighter came along in International air space and tried to flame a drone…..on a surveillance mission of shipping lanes.

    Special note to Boehner…..I know you will give in, but I am in favor of letting the fiscal cliff happen. I want to see the tax increases happen so people can see that they are really there….I want Obama care to kick in to its fullest so they can see where the tax increases came from…..I want Obama care to kick in to its fullest so everyone can see you will not be able to keep your current insurance and you will see your insurance rates rise greater than 20%…because 20% has already happened. This is what the people want……cool. The average tax increase of $3500 per family will happen to 88 percent….this is what they voted for….let it happen. Recession will set in…this is what they voted for….let it happen. Interesting times indeed.

    • D13, contrast TX to CA. We raised taxes, did not block unions from extracting political contributions from paychecks, and voted in a 2/3rds democratic majority in the legislature. The Republican party is not irrelevant in CA. The legislature can raise taxes at anytime without hindrance. They do not even have to hide it as a fee like the $150 rural fire fee I just had to pay. Funny how that fee impacted the conservative rural parts of the state and not the city folks. The Dems can now run the state as they please. Unfortunately, if they fail, the voters of this state will not turn them out. We have become Detroit.

      I am with you. As much as it will hurt, I think the Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire.

      • Yep…take a look at what is happening at the world market as well as they us markets since the election……everyone knows what is coming.

      • Yes, let them expire…close all the loopholes on corporations..,,,,and watch the exodus begin. It needs to happen. I am prepared.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13thecolonel

          Good morning Sir.

          I see things are progressing in the Great Republic.

          I see you missed the question I left for ya the other day so I posted it again, below. I agree that it is time to let the policies take full affect. Unfortunately I am NOT prepared adequately. We are tied up in Real Estate and can not get out in time.

          Idaho seems to be going the same path as Texas. Now if Montana would only follow.

          Best to you and yours.

          Now for that question:

          D13

          Colonel, I have a good one for you.

          Idaho passed an Amendment to their Constitution codifying the Right to Hunt, Fish and Trap.

          Every County BUT ONE passed the Amendment..

          Guess who the people are that live in that ONE County. Can you name a town in that County? No Googling please.

          Hope all is well in the Republic this fine day. Sunny and warm here. An unusual event but most uplifting.

          The GREAT SELL OFF begins. Avoid new Cap Gains Rates.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        TRay

        I was going to ask you yesterday if you are finally ready to RE-LOCATE.

        • With all my wife’s medical problems and the business located in CA, I am kind of stuck for a few more years. I do live in a good part of the state, in gold country with lions and tigers and bears. For some strange reason, the 5 bucks that hung out in my yard all summer are no where to be seen. It think they froze to death. I have to keep working until at least my wife is on Medicare which is two more years. Even then as things stand now, I do not think I can retire especially if the economy takes another major hit. I had things planned so that in the last few working years, I would have a substantial surplus. Unfortunately, the medical bills of the last 8 years have taken all of that and more. I still have retirement savings but no where near what I had originally planned. I am actually filing my meager Exxon retirement papers today.

          • T-Ray, I wish you luck with your retirement. Seriously.

            On the other hand, you can feel great about knowing your contributions (hard work) will let the management of said company retire in luxury … because they “worked” so much harder than you and thus “deserved” the just rewards of your labor.

            it’s shameful is what it is …

            • Charlie, I am not retiring, just collecting what they owe me. I left Exxon over 20 years ago. However, I did set them on a path that probably has saved them $M by now. They’re welcome to it. As for the current company I work for, it is about 20 people of which I am the technology leader and a co-owner. So I guess that makes me both a slave and a slave master in your book.

              • You’re only a slave master if you take more than you put into the job, T-Ray. There are co-ops, a fair amount of them, in the U.S. now where workers share equally across the board their collective input.

                One most post for me later tonight, then I’ll be taking my own break from this insanity … and you can agree with each other over and over and over again … the end is near, Tyranny has one … long live the great state of Texas (which will soon become Democratic all over again) … oy vey.

                But always, Go Bills!

          • Just A Citizen says:

            T-Ray

            Spent many weeks of my youth at Aunt and Uncle’s place near Iowa Hill. Used to go down the road to pan gold on some old prospectors claim. He got a kick out of letting us lil’ kids dig for nuggets.

            Ever been to Packer Lake?

            • No, have not been to Packer. Iowa Hill is due north in Placer Co.. I live about 4 mi south of Coloma (Sutter’s Mill SP) up on the ridge above the S. Fork of the American River.

  72. Just A Citizen says:

    d13thecolonel

    Sir, you will like this one. It goes along with your CRP comment.

    On Monday, that being the day BEFORE the election, I received a Check for over $1200 from the US Treasury. My name is on the check along with “For Lil’ JAC”.

    I have no idea what the check is for or why I got it, especially with that added statement. I have never seen such a statement on a check before.

    We have applied for SSI for him but they have not approved that yet. At least they have not notified me if they have. I did have to fix an error on my tax returns, back in JULY because I missed checking a box for his disability.

    So this leads me to wonder if I….or he…..just got a TAX CREDIT courtesy of Mr. Obama. The day BEFORE the election. Which makes me wonder how many others got a check on Monday. That is funny part one.

    Here is funny part two. In order for Lil’ JAC to qualify for SSI he must not have much money in his name. They told us to keep it well UNDER $1000. So if I deposit said check, with the “For Lil’ JAC” on it, within HIS bank account he would not get approved for SSI or would be approved at a much lower rate. Which makes me wonder if the Govt just found a clever way to reduce the long term costs of SSI. 🙂

    These certainly are strange times.

    Give my best to yer family.

  73. Mourning in America – Here’s Those Layoffs We Voted For Last Night
    By Rusty Weiss on November 07, 2012

    imageLast night’s victory for the President marks the first time since its inception that Obamacare is no longer a what-if; it is the future of health care in America.

    It also means a near immediate impact on the economy. With 20 or so new or higher taxes set to be implemented, ranging from a $123 billion surtax on investment income, through the $20 billion medical device tax, all the way down to the $600 million executive compensation limit,
    Obamacare will be a nearly unbearable tax burden on the economy.

    Who will pay? The middle-class workforce, of course.

    So with another four years for President Obama to look forward to, and the obvious inevitability of Obamacare that this entails, let’s examine the very real jobs that will be lost, and the very real lives that will be affected.

    Welch Allyn

    Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

    Dana Holding Corp.

    As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing “$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses”. After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

    Stryker

    One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce – an estimated 1,170 positions.

    Boston Scientific

    In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could “lead to significant job losses” for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas – to China.

    Medtronic

    In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

    Others

    A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:

    Smith & Nephew – 770 layoffs
    Abbott Labs – 700 layoffs
    Covidien – 595 layoffs
    Kinetic Concepts – 427 layoffs
    St. Jude Medical – 300 layoffs
    Hill Rom – 200 layoffs

    Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law – a shift from full-time to part-time workers.

    Sean Hackbarth of Free Enterprise explains:

    A JP Morgan economist “points out that 8.3 million people are working in part-time jobs even though they’d prefer full-time work. Unfortunately, because of President Obama’s health care law, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), workers in the hotel, restaurant, and retail industries could be pushed into part-time jobs working less than 30 hours per week.”

    “Under the health care law, if a company has more than 50 “full time equivalent” workers, a combination of full and part-time employees, but doesn’t offer “affordable” coverage that meets the government’s minimum value standard, the company will have to pay a penalty. This penalty is determined by the number of full-time employees minus 30 full-time employees. So to reiterate a very important point: part-time workers are not part of the penalty formula. The health care law creates a perverse incentive to hire part-time versus full-time workers.”

    Tangible examples of Obamacare causing a reduction in full-time workers:

    Darden Restaurants

    According to the Orlando Sentinel, Darden Restaurants, a casual dining chain best known for their Red Lobster, Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse restaurants, is “experimenting with limiting the hours of some of its workers to avoid health care requirements under the Affordable Care Act when they take effect in 2014”.

    JANCOA Janitorial Services

    The CEO of JANCOA, Mary Miller, testified to Congress that Obamacare was a “dream killer”, adding that one option she had to consider “is reducing the majority of my team members to part-time employment in order to reduce the amount that I will be penalized.”

    Kroger

    The American retailer in Cincinnati, Ohio recently was reported to be planning a significant slashing of their hourly workers. Doug Ross writes:

    Operative Faith (a mid-level manager with the company) reveals that Kroger will soon join the ranks of Darden Restaurants and slash the hours of its non-exempt (hourly) workers to avoid millions in Obamacare penalties.

    According to the source, Obamacare could result in tens of thousands of Kroger employees being limited to working 28 hours per week.

    Summary

    This is by no means, meant to be an exhaustive list. But it is meant to provide examples of real companies, real jobs, and real names, soon to be added to the growing list of employment casualties provided by the inevitable implementation of Obamacare.

    Last night, America voted for four more years of President Obama and his destructive economic and health care policies. By extension, America last night voted their approval of the aforementioned layoffs and overall work reduction.

    Now we must accept the inevitable. Welcome to mourning in America.

    http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/grusbf5/good-morning-america-heres-those-layoffs-you-voted

    • Welch Allyn is one of our suppliers. I hope they do not start dropping products and it could make life difficult for me. Rockwell-Collins (commercial and military radios and avionics) in Cedar Rapids is planning a layoff. Life will get interesting.

      • Two businesses here have already announced that they are closing down here as a direct result of the election. Because of uncertainty in the marketsplace and about taxes on their very small businesses. They announced it in the paper here. AND stated that the election was the cause. The election is having such good results so far. 😦

    • This is by no means, meant to be an exhaustive list. But it is meant to provide examples of real companies, real jobs, and real names, soon to be added to the growing list of employment casualties provided by the inevitable implementation of Obamacare.

      Last night, America voted for four more years of President Obama and his destructive economic and health care policies. By extension, America last night voted their approval of the aforementioned layoffs and overall work reduction.

      Now we must accept the inevitable. Welcome to mourning in America.

      You paint such a rosey picture for America … yet under Obama, profits for the wealthiest were greater than they were under Bush (or anybody else). Read Atlas Shrugged (or the GREAT review of it in the National Review a long time ago) … once they lose their jobs, “Off to the gas chambers …” http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/09/10/814771/atlas-shrugged-national-review-and-the-dangers-of-self-seriousness/?mobile=nc

      “Idealistic fabulism” … William F. Buckley called it that, not me.

      Redistribute the wealth to those who’ve earned it in the first place! Workers of the world unite!

      • Just A Citizen says:

        charlie

        Yes, Parasites do quite well feeding on the host when one of their own controls the chains on the host.

        I am curious why you think Buckley is some intellectual authority with respect to Rand. Hell, he couldn’t even stand up to Chomskey’s arguments. A Rand vs. Chomskey debate would have been much more entertaining, and informative.

  74. Just A Citizen says:

    Here is an interesting read on the Republican’s attempt to get modern, and how it failed. The punch line pretty much sums up the contradiction the elephants need to deal with.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/334783.php

    • Just A Citizen says:

      charlie

      An appropriate comment found within your post:

      “Whittaker Chambers didn’t like absolutes and preferred relativism to justify the fact he was once a Communist spy.

      Just because he flipped shouldn’t make him a darling of the right. Chambers is the flip side of the David Brock coin.

      As for Chambers’ particular attack on Ayn Rand, find it interesting that he infers objectivism is similar to Nazi ideology. Loses credibility on that front alone without taking into account the rest.

      There’s a simple reason why Chambers didn’t like Rand…blowhard relativist looters don’t produce much except hot air.

      If Chambers were alive today, he would be pontificating about the evils of the Tea Party as part of the wine and brie Beltway faux conservative “ruling” class.

      In contrast, you will find Rand’s legacy in the Tea Party movement.”

      • In contrast, you will find Rand’s legacy in the Tea Party movement.

        So, you’ll all be using public assistance when the time comes? Will you do it under your names or your spouses?

        Curiosity here: How does someone being a communist negate the fact the book sucked? I mean, he’s not the only one who felt that way. It’s been regarded as more a joke than a serious novel by pretty much all literary critics.

        I think inference had more to do with the black-whiteness of Randism: My way or the highway … check that, gas chambers.

        It’s 2012, JAC … you’ll have to open your eyes to that sooner or later.

        .

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Charlie

          Your point is much like one she made in that book and others. I don’t think she ever intended it to be a great “Literary Work”. So having a bunch of “literary critics” going off on her book is quite silly. But that is how the “elite” handle threats to their status. The “influence pushers”.

          If my side loses the war then we will most likely be on Govt assistance in the end. Because the parasites will construct a system with no other choices. Our goal is to avoid that situation.

          I assure you I am “wide awake”. It is you who will have to eventually open your eyes. I hope it happens before your tribe decides to consume you in the process of finding “social justice”.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          charlie

          re; black and whiteness.

          Rand’s stories are designed to explain her philosophy in fictional format. The characters are not all black and white. The conflict within the heroin and others is portrayed quite well as they struggle with “giving up” and “fighting to save the country”. Sound familiar??

          The critic, like so many others, falls back to the technocratic elite and materialism over morality bull to denigrate Rand’s ideas. But those are NOT her ideas. They were much more basic and broader than just Businessmen and Businesswomen. Remember in the Novel that the great composers and artists also start disappearing. The distinction between the takers and producers was NOT one of Business vs the Rest.

          It is between Takers and Producer, between the Collectivist and the Individual. And in those distinctions there is nothing but Black and White.

          Because gray almost always leads to Black.

  75. From Whittaker Chambers’ review (sounds familiar to me): Since a great many of us dislike much that Miss Rand dislikes, quite as heartily as she does, many incline to take her at her word. It is the more persuasive, in some quarters, because the author deals wholly in the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. In this fiction everything, everybody, is either all good or all bad, without any of those intermediate shades which, in life, complicate reality and perplex the eye that seeks to probe it truly. This kind of simplifying pattern, of course, gives charm to most primitive story-telling. And, in fact, the somewhat ferro-concrete fairy tale the author pours here is, basically, the old one known as: The War between the Children of Light and the Children of Darkness. In modern dress, it is a class war. Both sides of it are caricatures.

  76. Just A Citizen says:

    SK and others in Sandy and Snow Storm country.

    More on FEMA which show how it actually works compared to perceptions.

    FEMA is reducing its head office staff and pulling back some of its support structure.

    WHY, you ask?

    Because the President’s waiver of the 25% payment by States expires this weekend. And the STATES have not expressed a desire to continue the full blown support from FEMA. BECAUSE they would have to pony up 25% of the cost. POTUS has been asked to extend the waiver but has given NO SIGN of what he intends to do. Not even a NO, just silence. But this should help some of you understand why Christie was kissing Obama’s backside from day one. He knows full well he would be asking for that extension of the Waiver.

    While the waiver was in place the STATES ordered anything and everything. As of yesterday the orders dropped dramatically. Things like using Military Cargo planes to fly fire trucks and utility trucks across the country. A lesson to be learned there for you welfare supporters.

    DOD was being tasked with providing some more permanent housing to get folks through to summer. I don’t know yet if that is still in the works.

    But while on the DOD topic, you might find this interesting. The DOD is “attached” to FEMA in emergencies but they are not “under” FEMA control. The DOD can withdraw their resources at any time. So those people screaming to use the ARMY to respond to emergencies should recognize that is not their job and they have no mandate to stay and help. Nothing but the orders of POTUS.

    Anyone looking for work who could do “insurance adjusting” should contact FEMA to get a list of the major providers in the affected area. I understand they are hurting for adjusters.

  77. Just A Citizen says:

    As Charlie might say; “how convenient”.

    “David Petraeus Resigns As CIA Director, Citing Extramarital Affair “

    • ……Petraeus leads the surge which Obama was opposed to…Obama appoints Petareus to head the CIA..(first hint of payback)….
      !) The female was a plant from the start
      2) Petraeus on Benghazi “No one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.
      3) Snowball continues downhill with State Dept, FBI, CIA, Pentagon all denying responsibility while Hillary really gets thrown under the bus.
      4) Obama is mums the word til after election
      5) Petraeus resigns while admitting an affair days before having to testify on Benghazi

      ….meanwhile, Benghazi burns while Obama diddles, even though there were live feeds during the attacks, orders to stand down, Seals ruin that plan,
      My biggest questions are who gave the order to stand down? Why isn’t someone , or lots of someones demanding answers and threatening decisive action for the failures..right on up to IMPEACHMENT? Doesn’t Petraeus HAVE TO testify..and what is he likely to say. Hillary says she will be unavailable for comment next week. WHAT THE HELL? Is anyone going to be held accountable? Holder is looking to bail, Hillary is going to bail, Petraeus is gone..who’s left? OBAMA…..GET HIM!

      • Forget impeachment….let him stay. You have to admire the left and their thought of justice….they are against majority rule until they are in charge and then scream majority rules….and the uneducated masses do not care and collect their freebies….it will end shortly…there will be no money. Protect yourself and stay out of investments.

      • All I can say is this affair and the General’s response proves the General is a Republican. Otherwise, it would be a resume enhancer.

    • Can you say……..BULL DOOKEY.? While he did have a dalliance…..Obama needs to get rid of his testimony on Benghazi…..the same with Clinton…..just watch. I would not be surprised at convenient “accidents” of some not so prominent figures in the know.

  78. Finally, the last on the election and politics on TK (at least for a while) … Lindenhurst, Long Island (first hand) … and Bernard Malamud’s, The Assistant … Ketchup … Lindenhurst, L.I. … and a book review: Bernard Malamud’s, The Assistant …

    http://temporaryknucksline.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-lindenhurst-li-and-book-review.html

    See yous after a while, folks … or not. All best to all a’yous wingies …

  79. “disparate impact” Lord help us all!!

    Obama To Unleash Racial-Preferences Juggernaut

    By Paul Sperry
    Posted 11/08/2012 06:02 PM ET

    If your organization has a policy or practice that doesn’t benefit minorities equally, watch out: The Obama administration could sue you for racial discrimination under a dubious legal theory that many argue is unconstitutional.

    President Obama intends to close “persistent gaps” between whites and minorities in everything from credit scores and homeownership to test scores and graduation rates.

    His remedy — short of new affirmative-action legislation — is to sue financial companies, schools and employers based on “disparate impact” complaints — a stealthy way to achieve racial preferences, opposed 2 to 1 by Americans.

    Under this broad interpretation of civil-rights law, virtually any organization can be held liable for race bias if it maintains a policy that negatively impacts one racial group more than another — even if it has no racist motive and applies the policy evenly across all groups.

    Equal Outcomes

    This means that even race-neutral rules for mortgage underwriting and consumer credit scoring potentially can be deemed racist if prosecutors can produce statistics showing they tend to result in adverse outcomes for blacks or Latinos.

    Already, Attorney General Eric Holder has used the club of disparate-impact lawsuits to beat almost $500 million in loan set-asides and other claims out of the nation’s largest banks.

    In addition to the financial settlements — which include millions in funding for affordable-housing activists — Bank of America, Wells Fargo and SunTrust have all agreed to adopt more minority-friendly lending policies.

    Though the administration seeks equal credit outcomes, regardless of risk, across the entire banking industry, it doesn’t have to sue every bank to achieve its goal. As a prophylactic against similar prosecution, IBD has learned the American Bankers Association recently advised its 5,000 members to give rejected minority loan applicants a “second look,” which it says “can result in suggested changes in underwriting standards.”

    Also, the administration sent a chill through the financial industry earlier this year when it announced its new credit watchdog agency will join Justice, as well as HUD, in using the disparate-impact doctrine to enforce civil-rights laws.

    Consumer Financial Protection Bureau chief Richard Cordray warned companies the agency will “protect consumers from unfair lending practices — as well as those that have a disparate impact on communities of color.” He added:

    “That doctrine is applicable for all of the credit markets we touch, including mortgages, student loans, credit cards and auto loans,” as well as small-business loans.

    Hiring Criminals

    For the first time, the nation’s consumer credit reporting agencies, including Equifax, Experian and TransUnion, will come under federal review. CFPB examiners will subject these companies and others to an “effects test” to make sure credit transactions are racially balanced.

    Those who reject minority applicants for credit cards or charge them higher loan rates had better be prepared to prove to Cordray’s diversity cops they aren’t racist. Many have already decided it’s safer to give black and Latino applicants preferential treatment, which of course is racism of another kind.

    Other targets of the administration’s “racial justice” juggernaut include: standardized academic testing, professional licensing examinations, employee background checks, voter ID requirements, student disciplinary codes, prison sentencing guidelines — you name it.

    The goal is to equalize outcomes based on race without regard for performance or merit.

    According to Roger Clegg, president of the Center for Equal Opportunity, President Obama is committed to “aggressively pushing the ‘disparate impact’ approach to civil-rights enforcement” through which “the federal government insists that the numbers come out right — even if it means that policemen and firefighters cannot be tested, that companies should hire criminals, that loans must be made to the uncreditworthy, and that — I kid you not — whether pollution is acceptable depends on whether dangerous chemicals are spread in a racially balanced way.”

    Last month, moreover, the Education Department pressured the Oakland school district to impose “targeted reductions” in the number of black students suspended.

    The department charged that Oakland’s disciplinary policy has a “disparate impact” on African-American students, who are suspended at higher rates for violent behavior.

    The Oakland case is the first of some 20 such investigations of school districts across the U.S. “The Obama administration is pressuring school districts not to suspend violent or disruptive black students if they have already disciplined ‘too many’ black students,” said Competitive Enterprise Institute counsel Hans Bader.

    Education is also investigating a “disparate impact” complaint recently filed by the NAACP alleging the entrance exam used by selective New York City high schools illegally discriminates against blacks.

    Through disparate impact suits, Holder has forced banks to adopt racial lending quotas and even open branches in minority neighborhoods.

    He’s authorized five more lending-discrimination suits, while opening another 30 investigations against banks. And he’s just getting warmed up.

    “The question is not does (affirmative action) end, but when does it begin?” Holder said in February at a Columbia University forum. “When do people of color truly get the benefits to which they are entitled?”

    Banks had hoped the Supreme Court would declare his actions unconstitutional.

    But a landmark disparate-impact case was scuttled at the last minute this year when the petitioner withdrew it under pressure from Holder’s civil-rights chief.

    Congress is probing the unusual arm-twisting — which included what appears to be a corrupt quid-pro-quo bargain — that led to the case being dropped.

    Most agree that had the Magner v. Gallagher case gone forward, the high court would have struck down the use of disparate impact and effectively shut down the administration’s witch hunt against lenders.

    On the campaign trail, Obama was mum about his disparate-impact strategy and rarely talks at all about race.

    He’s no doubt aware of polling in his last presidential bid which found 56% of voters harbored fears he’d favor African-Americans. But his 2006 writings inform us.

    To close the “stubborn gap that remains between the living standards of black, Latino and white workers,” then-Sen. Obama proposed “completing the unfinished business of the civil rights movement — namely, enforcing nondiscrimination laws in such basic areas as employment, housing and education.”

    He added: “The government, through its prosecutors and its courts, should step in to make things right.”

    Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/110812-632759-obama-to-wield-bigger-disparate-impact-club.htm#ixzz2BmoYmBvd

  80. Post-Election, Media Free to Report on Coming Recession

    by Warner Todd Huston 9 Nov 2012, 2:50 PM PDT 79 post a comment
    Two days after the election, CNBC published a dour report on the economy. In what should be a shock to no one, CNBC is predicting that the U.S. economy is likely headed for another recession.

    CNBC helpfully informs us, now that the election is over, that the light in our economic tunnel could be a “freight train.” It sure would have been nice to know that before the election, wouldn’t it?

    Slowing corporate profits, the remnants of Superstorm Sandy and the ramifications of the “fiscal cliff” in Washington are expected to result in at least two quarters of slow or no growth that could make investing even trickier than it was during the ups and downs of 2012.

    That isn’t even the worst news. The bigger problem, which is only now being introduced into the media’s narrative, is that the economy never achieved “escape velocity” in order to get past the low growth rate we have been experiencing for the past four years.

    The economy, CNBC says, never got to the point where we’ve had enough growth to withstand the sort of shocks that a Hurricane Sandy or a continued or renewed bad business climate would wreck upon it.

    This means that the impending “fiscal cliff” won’t be easily weathered in an economy as delicate as the one in which we are mired.

    How might Washington fix this? CNBC says to get ready for higher taxes. This expected “solution” is already spooking investors and businessmen. All current expansion will likely cease as the business sector sits idle waiting to see what Washington will do to “fix” all this.

    In short, the business and investing sector is mighty afraid of an Obama second term. This means any tiny bit of growth we’ve been seeing lately might quickly stop.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/11/08/CNBC-We-re-Probably-Headed-to-Another-Recession-NOW-They-Tell-Us

  81. BREAKING: Massive Voter Fraud in St. Lucie County, Florida

    Heather Ginsberg
    Heather Ginsberg
    Blogger, Townhall.com

    Nov 10, 2012 01:21 PM EST
    Click if you like this post!

    On Tuesday only one precinct had less than 113% turnout. “The Unofficial vote count is 175,554 registered voters 247,713 vote cards cast (141.10% ). The National SEAL Museum, a St. Lucie county polling place, had 158.85% voter turn out, the highest in the county.”

    The Supervisor of Elections, Gertrude Walker, had this to say concerning the 141% voter turnout: “They may have had something like that in Palm Beach County, but we’ve never seen that here.”

    So maybe Allen West wasn’t crazy to ask for a lock-down on the ballot boxes and machines in this county. According to the report given the day after elections, Allen B. West garnered 52,625 votes in St.Lucie county and Patrick Murphy 65,896 votes.

    This is a problem that must be addressed right away. There is no reason that there should ever be more than 100% turnout. This county alone could have cost Allen West his election. Voter fraud is real, and it is time that this be solved.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/heatherginsberg/2012/11/10/breaking_massive_voter_fraud_in_st_lucie_county_florida

    • A Puritan Descendant says:

      What?! You don’t believe in ghosts? They are the new minority, we must not discriminate.

  82. Just A Citizen says:

    Bama Dad

    What da hell happened?

    A good friend of mine is doing summer saults about now. Die hared Aggie he is.

    • We choked. Local rumor has it that A. J. (our QB) got more than a bruised shoulder from the big hit he took 3 weeks ago as the passing game has been terrible the last 2 weeks. We normally are not a three and out offensive team but LSU and A&M kept the tide defense on the field way too long. We could not control the tempo of the last 2 games like we normally do. Big disappointment but we can still have a somewhat successful year.

  83. I know you guys won’t want to listen this, but it might be good for you:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/rachel-maddow-republicans-shellacked-election-night_n_2092290.html?utm_hp_ref=media

    If you don’t want to listen, here’s one of the important parts:

    Ohio really did go to President Obama last night, he really did win. He really was born in Hawaii, and he really is, legitimately, president of the United States again. And The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math.
    And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes. And evolution is a thing! And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us. And nobody is taking away anyone’s guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually. And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. And the moon landing was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism.

    • Some of that is true, some of it is not. Having the media say it does not make it true, just like the republicans claiming some of the ridiculous stuff they did also did not make it true. Citing a list of republican statements, while some were lies, does not mean they were all lies nor that the opposite of said list is true.

      Here is just one small example:
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2012/06/28/obamacares-7-tax-hikes-on-under-250000-a-year-earners/

      • Jon,
        Just because you don’t like the facts doesn’t make them false.

        • Soooo, no comment on the part where some of what was said in your excerpt was definitely NOT factual? Just because you like a statement or accusation does not make it true. Most of that list you posted was true, some of it was questionable, and a few points were dead wrong. So how is that different than the Republican side? They have a higher percentage of wrong on that list, but in other lists they would have a lower percentage. Stick with facts and truth, credibility is better that way. I have no problem pointing out where the libertarians screw up, and its hard to miss the parts where the two major parties do, cause its pretty constant.

    • Let’s go point by point:
      Ohio really did go to President Obama last night, he really did win. True!

      He really was born in Hawaii, and he really is, legitimately, president of the United States again. True!

      And The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. They have been making it up for a long time, under multiple presidencies, it is based on reporting not reality, and is constantly skewed, so that is false, but true that it was not last month, cause it started WAAAAYYYYY before that.

      And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. This is probably true, but that doesn’t mean jack, because the Congressional Research Service is about as accurate as the CBO, which is to say, not accurate at all, so their findings are irrelevant to the reality of the evidence that exists. Furthermore, a proper study would require a proper control where all else was equal, this is has not really ever been the case.

      And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. False, they were, but this was done to account for likely voters, in other words teh polls were based on likely voters, which include a higher sample of democrats. So in a way, it was not “oversampled” but there were more democrats polled.

      And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math. True, the few, the proud, the members of media who can actually do math.

      And climate change is real. True, but it is not man-made. Or at least that aspect is far from proven, and the resistance to dissent and questioning is evidence that the whole climate change thing is more a religion than science, science does not have a problem with debate and alternate theory, only religion does.

      And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes. Yes, and the idiot that claimed otherwise deserves all the criticism he is getting and more.

      And evolution is a thing! True! Is it the explanation of our existence? I dunno, but it is real.

      And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us. False, It was a scandal for sure and an attack that was permitted to happen, for reasons not yet known.

      And nobody is taking away anyone’s guns. Yes they are, but not so much more than before.

      And taxes have not gone up. Massive, massive lie.

      And the deficit is dropping, actually. Maybe, at the moment, but its all based on projections which are based on questionable numbers and we have not even had a lot of the real expenses from ACA and other policies start yet. I have no faith in this being true, nor has it been true long enough to mean anything of significance, nor is it dropping fast enough even in the most optimistic scenario to evade a debt crisis without a significant change.

      And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. True, at least none of consequence or current development.

      And the moon landing was real. Duh, and I have yet to meet a Republican that thinks its not.

      And FEMA is not building concentration camps. True, but they are a psychotic and inept institution.

      And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. True, this is a new one on me. I have problems with the UN, but I am not worried about anyone taking over Texas…

      And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism. True, but they are not the same thing as a good, economically sound idea either.

      Just sayin’

      • Jon,

        And The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. They have been making it up for a long time, under multiple presidencies, it is based on reporting not reality, and is constantly skewed, so that is false, but true that it was not last month, cause it started WAAAAYYYYY before that.

        It’s the standard we use – whether you like it or not.

        And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. This is probably true, but that doesn’t mean jack, because the Congressional Research Service is about as accurate as the CBO, which is to say, not accurate at all, so their findings are irrelevant to the reality of the evidence that exists. Furthermore, a proper study would require a proper control where all else was equal, this is has not really ever been the case.

        Sounds like your opinion, not facts. Do you have anything to actually refute the Congressional Research Services?

        Your “proper study” would require that we replicate earth and test different tax policies there. Good luck with that!

        Let’s look at recent history – the Bush Tax cuts had a marginal effect on the economy – and lead to the housing bubble.

        Or go back to Reagan – cutting taxes for the last 30 years has led to a huge deficit and debt – not much else.

        Or ask Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol:

        “It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on Fox News Sunday. “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”

        And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. False, they were, but this was done to account for likely voters, in other words teh polls were based on likely voters, which include a higher sample of democrats. So in a way, it was not “oversampled” but there were more democrats polled.

        The polls were correct. All the GOP bluster about Romney leading was wrong.

        And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math. True, the few, the proud, the members of media who can actually do math.

        But apparently Republicans can’t do math.

        And climate change is real. True, but it is not man-made. Or at least that aspect is far from proven, and the resistance to dissent and questioning is evidence that the whole climate change thing is more a religion than science, science does not have a problem with debate and alternate theory, only religion does.

        You can’t prove it’s not man-made. Legitimate science says it is.

        And evolution is a thing! True! Is it the explanation of our existence? I dunno, but it is real.

        The theory has been backed up with a lot of facts.

        And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us. False, It was a scandal for sure and an attack that was permitted to happen, for reasons not yet known.

        Just your typical right-wing opinion.

        And nobody is taking away anyone’s guns. Yes they are, but not so much more than before.

        No their not. Show me one case of guns being taken away.

        And taxes have not gone up. Massive, massive lie.

        The massive lie is the one that you’ve been feed and believe.

        And the deficit is dropping, actually. Maybe, at the moment, but its all based on projections which are based on questionable numbers and we have not even had a lot of the real expenses from ACA and other policies start yet. I have no faith in this being true, nor has it been true long enough to mean anything of significance, nor is it dropping fast enough even in the most optimistic scenario to evade a debt crisis without a significant change.

        This is not projections. Over the last few years the deficit had been dropping.

        And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. True, at least none of consequence or current development.

        Don’t try to qualify this. He didn’t have any.

        And the moon landing was real. Duh, and I have yet to meet a Republican that thinks its not.

        Based on Republican’s lack of science, I’m sure it won’t be long…

        And FEMA is not building concentration camps. True, but they are a psychotic and inept institution.

        Just your biased opinion.

        And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. True, this is a new one on me. I have problems with the UN, but I am not worried about anyone taking over Texas…

        Ask the Colonel.

        And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism. True, but they are not the same thing as a good, economically sound idea either.

        But they’re needed – based on the current practices of our financial institutions and system.

        • So how do you refute the specific tax increases in my link? I can give you more sources if you need, but how about you address the one first.

        • Jon,

          And The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. They have been making it up for a long time, under multiple presidencies, it is based on reporting not reality, and is constantly skewed, so that is false, but true that it was not last month, cause it started WAAAAYYYYY before that.

          It’s the standard we use – whether you like it or not.

          Whether I like or not is irrelevant. That it is the standard we use is also irrelevant. If it is a bad/non-factual measure of employment, then it is not a fact, it is simply a tool that can be used for manipulation by those who wield the authority to do so and benefit from it.

          And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. This is probably true, but that doesn’t mean jack, because the Congressional Research Service is about as accurate as the CBO, which is to say, not accurate at all, so their findings are irrelevant to the reality of the evidence that exists. Furthermore, a proper study would require a proper control where all else was equal, this is has not really ever been the case.

          Sounds like your opinion, not facts. Do you have anything to actually refute the Congressional Research Services?

          Not as yet, just a general distrust, particularly in light of repeated inaccuracies by the CBO, one of the CRS supporting agencies.

          Your “proper study” would require that we replicate earth and test different tax policies there. Good luck with that!

          Perhaps, but as such declarations for or against evidence are moot.

          Let’s look at recent history – the Bush Tax cuts had a marginal effect on the economy – and lead to the housing bubble.

          Or go back to Reagan – cutting taxes for the last 30 years has led to a huge deficit and debt – not much else.

          Both cases joined with massive spending, which is the actual cause of debt. It is on record that federal revenues went up when taxes were lowered, thus it is erroneous to assume it was the cause of increased debt/deficit. Further, it is also known that the housing bubble began with the subprime mortgage lending, which was done under the direct encouragement of the Federal government under HUD, etc. while under Clinton. Bush continued this pressure and federal support of sub-prime lending in the name of fairness and economic growth. There is no evidence whatsoever that tax policy lead to the housing bubble in any way.

          Or ask Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol:

          “It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on Fox News Sunday. “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”

          His statement is partially irrelevant in that the millionaires are not the only one’s whose taxes are being raised, and also it is obvious he is not considering the effect on investment and small business operations.

          And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. False, they were, but this was done to account for likely voters, in other words teh polls were based on likely voters, which include a higher sample of democrats. So in a way, it was not “oversampled” but there were more democrats polled.

          The polls were correct. All the GOP bluster about Romney leading was wrong.

          Agreed.

          And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math. True, the few, the proud, the members of media who can actually do math.

          But apparently Republicans can’t do math.

          Sound like your opinion. Do you have a source that shows Republicans cannot do math?

          And climate change is real. True, but it is not man-made. Or at least that aspect is far from proven, and the resistance to dissent and questioning is evidence that the whole climate change thing is more a religion than science, science does not have a problem with debate and alternate theory, only religion does.

          You can’t prove it’s not man-made. Legitimate science says it is.

          And other legitimate science shows that it is negligible, considering the percentage and the various balancing systems on Earth. Such opinions are not sensational enough to get any press, however.

          And evolution is a thing! True! Is it the explanation of our existence? I dunno, but it is real.

          The theory has been backed up with a lot of facts.

          Indeed it has.

          And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us. False, It was a scandal for sure and an attack that was permitted to happen, for reasons not yet known.

          Just your typical right-wing opinion.

          Really? Firstly I am not right wing, as you well know by now. Secondly, it has come to light that the nature of the attack was known early on and that the blame of it all on a spontaneous and riotous response to a barely known video was deceitful at best. That, in and of itself, defines this as a scandal.

          And nobody is taking away anyone’s guns. Yes they are, but not so much more than before.

          No their not. Show me one case of guns being taken away.

          Guns of various types have been taken away for sometime. As I stated, its no worse than usual.

          And taxes have not gone up. Massive, massive lie.

          The massive lie is the one that you’ve been feed and believe.

          I have linked to specific taxes just within ACA, and can point to many others under Obama’s presidency. These taxes are real and are really being charged to people, it has nothing to do with propaganda and lies, it is cold hard factual changes in tax policy. Even the mandate to purchase insurance is legally classified as a tax by the SCOTUS since that is the only way the Act could be counted as constitutional.

          And the deficit is dropping, actually. Maybe, at the moment, but its all based on projections which are based on questionable numbers and we have not even had a lot of the real expenses from ACA and other policies start yet. I have no faith in this being true, nor has it been true long enough to mean anything of significance, nor is it dropping fast enough even in the most optimistic scenario to evade a debt crisis without a significant change.

          This is not projections. Over the last few years the deficit had been dropping.

          Dropping from the levels it was early on, I certainly hope so, but I would like to see your source on this.

          And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. True, at least none of consequence or current development.

          Don’t try to qualify this. He didn’t have any.

          I don’t really care if he had any, he had a history of developing and using them. The entire intelligence community of this and other countries believed he had them. It does not justify us going in, it was a horrible decision all around, even if he did have them, but the intelligence at the time from many sources said they were there.

          And the moon landing was real. Duh, and I have yet to meet a Republican that thinks its not.

          Based on Republican’s lack of science, I’m sure it won’t be long…

          Um, that conspiracy theory has been around for a long time, it is not new, its just not a Republican thing, usually its cook fringe of either party or no party that have that opinion.

          And FEMA is not building concentration camps. True, but they are a psychotic and inept institution.

          Just your biased opinion.

          Yes, based on their failure to effectively do what they advertise that they are there to do. As others here will tell you, they arent that bad at being what they are, just at being what everyone has been lead to believe they are.

          And UN election observers are not taking over Texas. True, this is a new one on me. I have problems with the UN, but I am not worried about anyone taking over Texas…

          Ask the Colonel.

          And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism. True, but they are not the same thing as a good, economically sound idea either.

          But they’re needed – based on the current practices of our financial institutions and system.

          Are they? Can you show a source that the specific reforms and regulations are effective and will address the issues of concern? I have seen little in the laws passed that is effective, and the stuff that is is full of favoritism and instability.

  84. And if you don’t believe that, this might be helpful information:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/08/jeff-brucculeri-traffic-romney-supporters-canada_n_2094572.html?utm_hp_ref=media

    Road Trip!!

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Todd

      And here is a comment on your link which I think pretty much sums up the ignorance and arrogance of the Progressive Democrat.

      “The Tea Partiers, Conservative Christians, and Republicans in general are looking for a country where women are subserviant to men, religious dogma equates legislation, where racial divides are stident, where social healthcare doesn’t exisist, where pollution is legal, where natural disasters are dependent on international assistance. Sounds Sharia to me. If you go to Canada, make a right, be prepared to swim some and head East young man, Middle East that is. ”

      Much like your summary of Maddow’s rant.

      And you accuse the right of confirmation bias. How funny.

      • I like the “racial divides are strident” thing. After 60 years of “progressive” liberal democratic social policies trying to “help” the black people in this country, what exactly do they have to show for it on, let’s say: poverty, education, employment, abortion, illegitimacy, incarceration, drugs, housing and a host of other things?

        Being a lover of Malcolm while he was still alive and while I was a teenager, I’ll never forget his absolutely best comment ever to the young, white liberal chick from the Ivy university who asked what she could do to help after one of his speeches. He said “Go home!” Nailed it, the man absolutely nailed it for then, now and in the future.

        Life for those who believe reality trumps fantasy is a twelve step program. YOU have to acknowledge you have a problem before you can do something about it. It is not society’s problem, not the guy down the block’s problem. YOU have a problem. Then you can get on solving it. Anything else is nothing but self delusion. Seems that a good chunk of the population has that now (greater than 47%?) Buy stock in pharma companies making anti-depressants. When the loans aren’t free, the mortgage is not forgiven, college tuition becomes increasingly impossible to afford, medicine tanks while becoming totally out of everyone’s reach, there are going to be a host of customers for those little happy pills. Medicare, part “D” for everyone!

      • JAC,
        I wasn’t referring to the comments, but the article. Care to comment on that?

        And it wasn’t my summary, that was part of Maddow’s statement.

        Confirmation bias? It’s called facts JAC.

  85. Thanks are in order today to all the SUFA veterans. Whether you like it or are proud of it or not, I’m thankful you had my back.

  86. Time for a letter writing campaign to our congressmen. Time to find something we can ALL get behind. Charlie and I hashed this out a while back and I think are in more or less agreement. There will be a huge push on immigration soon, the Republicans may be set to cave completely.

    Gingrich had it nailed. If you come forward, if you have no criminal record, then you will get legal resident status with all rights and privileges and no chance of deportation unless you do something in the future really bad. You do not get “citizenship”. That is the penalty. You can access all services and enjoy all benefits of legal residency but the penalty, out of, if nothing else but fairness to those who have played by the rules, is no citizenship.

    Before anyone does a kneejerk disagreement ask yourself, if this were polled among current illegals in this country, how would they vote? Not you, not Nancy Pelosi, but the real flesh and blood human beings this affects. If all you really care about are these people living in the shadows being exploited, which is all I ever hear, you should be ecstatic in your support for this. If you are not, then you have an agenda other than those people.

    Time to put up or shut up.

    • I offered my solution on here a few months back. I would support this but with some additions. Before any program can be sold to the populace, the border needs to be closed. Also, we need to improve the process for allowing individuals to immigrate legally thus taking pressure off the border. Part of my previous offer was to allow individuals to self deport and then return after a specified period of time to gain the right of citizenship. I would be willing to offer such a solution to my local newspaper editor.

      • I can live with that. There are some details that should be hammered out. Heard Rush, again, I think the 25 year thing might be negotiable but it has to stay at 25 permanently, not 20 then 15, then ten then tomorrow at 3 PM.

    • I also must add, that Rush offered his support for legalization with citizenship but with a 25 year ban on voting rights. Have not heard if he has any takers from the left.

    • I could support some realization of the ones already here….ONLY….if you close the border now, institute voter ID….and you MUST be a citizen to vote and hold office no matter how small.

      • I could definitely support this with this added- no in-state tuition for your kids, no freebie welfare programs…..no food stamps, no free medical care etc. If they say they came here for a better life, they damn well better be working for it, and not taking it in the form of entitlements.

        That will weed out the ones who really came here to get our goodies from the ones who came here to WORK.

        Murf

        • Murph

          This is where we have to be willing to negotiate. If your kids are American born, there is no issue they get what you and I get. If they are smuggled in (highly unlikely) from my perspective, then they become legal residents with rights attached.

          This is the price we have to pay to shut the damned door for once and for all on illegals (non negotiable). The Colonel is right, I dunno how they blew the door shutting part during Reagan’s administration but that has to be done first.

          I think we all have to worry about being betrayed because, that’s really what happened before. The problem will be with the left who Rush challenged to stand up last week. We need people on board here who will never give up on the truth and all who really care about the future of this country. They have to get together on this issue as a grassroots issue and shove it down the collective throats of both political parties. I’m not kidding when I suggest that the illegals here be polled on WHAT THEY WOULD WANT and accept. F— LaRaza and the political whores. If an honest poll showed 75%, which I feel is quite possible, would take the deal, then lets see the opposition ignore that.

        • Murph,
          You can’t put these kinds of restrictions on this. You’re just continuing the second-class standard.

      • I’ll start the ball rolling with a proposal. Feel free to modify it.

        1. The border will be closed be suitable means with metrics in place to measure the effectiveness of the closure process.
        2. Simultaneous with border closure, immigration policies will be liberalized to increase immigration rates and reduce the time from application to acceptance or rejection to less than 6 months.
        3. All states will implement voter ID laws that ensure voters are citizens.
        4. All states will issue drivers licenses that clearly state the citizenship status of the individual.
        5. When the President certifies, using the predetermined metrics, that the border has effectively been closed for 6 months, the open amnesty period will begin
        6. All illegal residents have one year to report to immigration authorities and register.
        7. Upon registration and provided they have no felony convictions, they will be granted a 5 year provisional residency with all rights of individuals with that status. Deportations for felony convictions will be permitted.
        8. At the end of the five year provisional period, again with no felony convictions, the resident will be granted full citizenship with one proviso, they cannot vote for another 20 years. Individuals must renounce all allegiance to their source country. They will not be subject to deportation.
        9. Any children of registrants who are 16 or younger at the time of registration will be granted 5 years of resident status as their parents. Upon reaching their 21st birthday, again with no felony convictions, they will be granted full citizenship with voting rights.
        10. Any individual who completes 4 years of military service and is granted an honorable discharge will be granted full citizenship with voting rights.

        • No citizenship. Permanent legal residence for their lifetimes unless they get a felony conviction. .

          You make them citizens without voting rights and the courts and the ACLU will be on your back in five minutes or less.

          Agree on military service. You get it all and citizenship too.(whole different ball of wax) but this would also probably lead to a court challenge for setting up “classes”.

          Let’s keep at it ladies and gentlemen, and when we have a short, sweet 1 page polished summary that we can agree on, lets put it out to everyone we know.

          • OK, then green card status forever. I too was worried about two classes of citizenship. Are you OK with kids under 16 getting citizenship?

            • I am. We don’t want to “keep them down” if they came here young and this is pretty much the only country they know.

          • Trynosky – hmm, that sounds like a right proper English, Spanish or French name, right?

            Ooohh… not? So your family immigrated here, huh?

            Now, you want to stop others from coming here.

            Never think what would have happened had that been done to your family right?

            • Black Flag,
              Different time – different world – different circumstances.

              Now, you want to stop others from coming here.

              We’re a country of laws – which aren’t working right now. We’re not trying to stop others, we’re trying to find a solution to the current situation so those already here can become a legal part of society, those in the future can come here legally.

              We’re looking for a solution…

        • T-Ray,
          A good start. Some comments.

          1. The border will be closed be suitable means with metrics in place to measure the effectiveness of the closure process.

          This means a GREAT BIG HIGH WALL right? With constant monitoring for breaches, tunnels, car ramps (did anyone else see that story about a week ago??). This will be expensive – are you willing to spend the money?

          2. Simultaneous with border closure, immigration policies will be liberalized to increase immigration rates and reduce the time from application to acceptance or rejection to less than 6 months.

          Agreed

          3. All states will implement voter ID laws that ensure voters are citizens.

          This is touchy. If there’s plenty of lead time (the voter-id law passes today, but takes effect in 2016 to give people time) and id’s are free.

          And the voter-suppression/intimidation crap has to stop – billboards scaring people, mailings with incorrect info, etc.

          4. All states will issue drivers licenses that clearly state the citizenship status of the individual.

          Ok – with #3 stipulations

          5. When the President certifies, using the predetermined metrics, that the border has effectively been closed for 6 months, the open amnesty period will begin

          Agreed. Will you accept it if Obama makes this certification? 🙂

          6. All illegal residents have one year to report to immigration authorities and register.

          Not sure about the timeline, but the other details would affect this.

          7. Upon registration and provided they have no felony convictions, they will be granted a 5 year provisional residency with all rights of individuals with that status. Deportations for felony convictions will be permitted.

          No provisional period. Register and pass the checks and you’re in. Felonies within 5 years could result in deportation.

          8. At the end of the five year provisional period, again with no felony convictions, the resident will be granted full citizenship with one proviso, they cannot vote for another 20 years. Individuals must renounce all allegiance to their source country. They will not be subject to deportation.

          No. What’s the difference between “resident” and “citizen who can’t vote”? Just too complicated.

          9. Any children of registrants who are 16 or younger at the time of registration will be granted 5 years of resident status as their parents. Upon reaching their 21st birthday, again with no felony convictions, they will be granted full citizenship with voting rights.

          Agreed.

          10. Any individual who completes 4 years of military service and is granted an honorable discharge will be granted full citizenship with voting rights.

          How about “4 years of honorable military service” will be granted full citizenship with voting rights. Why wait until they’re discharged?

          I don’t mean to nit-pick – thanks for putting out some ideas.

          • Yes policing the border will be expensive, but without sealing it off, the problem will just continue. It must be done. We assumed it would be done in ’86 but here we are back trying to solve the same problem. Amnesty will not pass without the border problem being corrected first. I would look to guys like D13 to supply solutions.

            There is more to voter fraud than just ID’s but D13 stipulated it as a condition. I do not want to block any citizen from voting once. Voter IDs should be free. In fact I had one when I first registered in IL. It was not a picture ID as most were not at that time. Adding citizen status to driver’s licenses would make the issue moot for most people. Most states now issue picture IDs similar to driver’s licenses to non-drivers. My wife has one. I will leave the other voter fraud issues for another time.

            Re: #5 Border security certification: If the metrics for certification are done properly, and the process is open, then I would accept certification from the President whoever is in the office. This would be done in a report to Congress who of course should raise a fuss if things are not proper.

            Re #7, provisional period. This was the period in which deportations could happen. That would be the one provision. After five years felony convictions would be treated like any other resident. But I am open to making deportation open ended.

            Rel #10, I’m good with one honorable hitch in the service.

            It’s not nit picking. Comments are good and will allow us to come to a consensus with a final product might have some traction. The problem is actually simple to solve if we stop screaming at each other.

            I agree with SK that we should poll the immigrants for their input.

            • Actually, we walked over the Bearing straight some 14,000 years ago. That’s where the slanty eyes and high cheekbones come from. Can’t wait till the human genome project is complete.

              Are you totally open borders? I like immigrants, if they came here by the rules.

              Either you are mistaking me for some Nativist fool or are open borders or are deliberately obscuring the issue. In any event you are wrong.

            • See, I like this refining the ideas.

              1. Build the damn wall. Cheaper in the long run. Not fooling when I called it a highway project. Six lane highway with a noise barrier on the south side. Government is damned good at that noise barrier thing, especially here in the east.

              2. Why would you want to increase immigration rates? Current numbers are roughly a million legally every year? Not that you can undo what RFK did in ’65 but how about making it an equal playing field for all immigrants, white and non white. How about looking for education and re-instituting medical standards? These are not “make and break” as far as I am concerned but should be on the table for negotiation.

              3. Voter, ID, photo ID is a no brainer. You need it to get into any Federal, State, city or well run private office building in NYC. I still have both my NY and NJ Voter ID card issued when I registered in ’73 and ’77 and used to have to show. When you talk about potential fraud think about this for a moment. In our neighborhood, three out of four of my children are still registered despite them being out of the house (and state) for 7 to 15 years! Can’t get them off the rolls!

              4. And damn the expense, we will send teams to nursing homes and backwaters to issue those ID’s. Cheaper in the long run.

              5. No president, governors of three of the four affected southern border states. federal; government is suspect after the Reagan Amnesty.

              6. A year to 18 months is good for me. After that, door is closed. After the day the law is passed and signed, anyone coming and caught is automatically precluded from residency in the future no matter if they sneak in again or if they try legally.

              7. I would make it provisional permanent simply because the opposition will say it is a ploy to have them surface and kick them out five years later. Only really bad behavior will get you bounced.

              8. Right now, all resident aliens have a resident alien card. When you go for your ID, you will have to prove date/place of birth and it will be so noted. Hell, we can issue a credit type ID card that can be scanned or swiped. We have a national instant background check for gun buyers. K-mart can tell if you are go or no go in seconds. What’s the big deal?

              9. Born here, no problem, smuggled in as a youth? Full voting citizenship, to be determined excellent negotiating ploy. (you are going to have to give some things up)

              10,. Military service is a no brainer but I think will be subject to a court challenge. Current rules allow fast track for resident aliens, might be a good precedent.

              We, even Flag, are doing here what the congress never does anymore, refining a concept through give and take based on ideas, precedents and common sense. We are actually fighting the entire political establishment who wants nothing changed. Everybody else should jump in here too. maybe we can work up a one page bill and somehow get it through to someone who has political traction. It really should not be more than one page. Should have the support of the “real” immigrant community not the radical La Raza types. By the time something like this got to congress, the “but what if” guys would peck it to pieces unless grassroot support stopped that. An example: Manny comes to the US illegally at 18 gets drunk at 19, gets picked up in a stolen car and convicted of GTA. Gets deported, sneaks back in, lives a quiet peaceful life, wife and three kids for 20 years, comes out in the amnesty period (to deport or not to deport?) Problem is if there is an exception, then they will just come up with another weaker scenario until finally they have watered it down to nothing. My own personal solution involves both sides taking a chance, Manny comes forward, lays it on the line and it goes before a three judge panel (local) who make the call and a recommendation to the State governor for a special provisional pardon for the prior offense. . .

    • Stephen,
      I can agree to this in general.

  87. A good day to all our vets…….thanks.

  88. I have been out of town and away from a computer until now, so I am late with this today….

    Many thanks to all the veterans here. I will never forget what you have done for me and all the freedoms I still enjoy because of your sacrifice.

    Murf

  89. A failure of principles – and trying to use law and force to repair them…. *sigh*

  90. A couple new facts about the vote I didn’t know.

    November 12, 2012
    The Real Lesson of the Election
    By Jack Cashill

    Each year I drive across the eastern half of the country twice, including the states of Ohio and Indiana. Without benefit of signage it would be hard to tell them apart. Each has an industrial base in the north and a heartland dedicated largely to agriculture. Each state is 86 percent white and has a Republican governor. Over the last 25 years, I think I have stopped at every McDonald’s on 1-70 and 1-71, and the service is uniformly upbeat and amiable along the whole route.

    In 2008 both states voted for Barack Obama for president, Ohio by four percent, Indiana by one percent. In 2012, Ohio voted for Obama by a two percent margin, but Indiana voted for Romney by a 10.5 percent differential. Some 250,000 fewer Hoosiers voted for Obama in 2012 than in 2008, and Romney topped McCain’s total by nearly 70,000 votes.

    Despite the filter of a hopelessly corrupt media, huge numbers of Indiana citizens saw through the Obama ruse.

    In this unproductive week of finger pointing and teeth gnashing, I am prepared to argue that Indiana tells us potentially more about America’s future than Ohio.

    In the week before the election, I was invited to speak at my alma mater, Purdue University. As I drove around West Lafayette, what caught my eye was the absence of Obama signs. I did not see one, not even in the faculty neighborhoods. As Obama’s unpopularity grew during the last four years, his team at some point decided to concede Indiana. From their perspective, Indiana lacked one tactical asset that Ohio had — early voting.

    Early voting is a boon for the vote harvesters. The vote harvester’s mission is to gather unthinking collectives of potential voters — nursing home residents, college students, skid-row dwellers, recent immigrants — and get them to vote. Harvesting does not necessarily mean fraud, but it clearly encourages the same. In James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas videos, we saw how easy it was for even a congressman’s son — in this case, Pat Moran, son of Jim — to cross the line from harvesting to cheating.

    Early voting makes harvesting all the more economical. Fewer people on the ground can get more accomplished. At an Obama rally at Ohio State, my friends in Columbus tell me, the Obama campaign provided a steady stream of busses to take rally-goers right to the polls, one stop shopping.

    As reported on these pages, the Obama campaign in Ohio also bussed in gaggles of Somalis, who were given slate cards and told who to vote for. These people may or may not have been citizens, but they clearly had less idea what they were doing at the polls than the students, and that take some doing.

    Students are often spectacularly clueless. Revealing Politics’ Caleb Bonham and Lacey Meeks attended an Obama event on the campus of Ohio University a month after the raid on the Benghazi consulate to see what Obama supporters thought of the President’s response. The video they created is both amusing and depressing, but it is not at all surprising

    “I have no idea,” laugh two girls when asked what they think about the Benghazi incident. “I am really uninformed about that,” says another. “When did that happen?” asks still another. “I don’t even know what this is honestly,” says a fellow. When asked about Ambassador Chris Stevens, several just shrug their shoulders and say, “Who’s he?”

    In fact, college students have always been ignorant. In uncontested states like Indiana, they usually don’t bother voting. The election of 2008 was the exception. Obama hit the student world like Justin Bieber, who was also discovered in 2008. That year, students voted because they were excited. In 2012, they voted because they were trucked to the polls. They added the leftward drift to the exit polling data. Given their lack of land lines, it is unlikely that anyone had polled them before.

    This pattern was repeated in all the states with early voting. In Florida, Ohio, Nevada, Iowa, and North Carolina, more registered Democrats voted early than Republican — in some states, by as much as 50 percent more.

    This election is over. We lost. But let us not write off the republic quite yet. Obama had nearly 8.5 million fewer votes in 2012 than he had in 2008. A whole lot of people obviously wised up. Yes, Romney had 1.8 million fewer votes than McCain, but 1.5 million of those votes were in California and another half-million were in New York, two states where Republicans have all but given up.

    More to the point, Obama had a lower percentage of the vote in 2012 than in 2008 in every single state but New Jersey. The Sandy photo op would seem to have paid off. It might have even saved his election.

    Until the dust settles, I would ask the Republican punditry to cease trolling for more votes among new classes of the clueless — they will always prefer Democrats — and invest their energy instead in educating the ignorant and tightening the electoral process.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/the_real_lesson_of_the_election.html#ixzz2BzUCh63I

  91. It is easy to control the border….we have stopped our border crossings (Texas) almost 90% now…….without the Feds.Politicians and academia have no clue as to what it takes….none. Let those of us who deal with it on a daily basis…do it. The “coyotes” are going to Arizona and California and leaving Texas and New Mexico alone. Why? Because we are focusing on the human traffickers….(coyotes)….it is very hazardous to their health. We do not focus on the immigrant….without the coyotes, the immigrants are not there. We are focusing on the employers and enforcing the law. It is simple….you just have to do it. We have set up job fairs and hire them with proper papers. If they do not have proper papers, any employer caught hiring them will be fined….minimum $50,000 and for a landscaping company that is as serious as being keel hauled on an aircraft carrier.

  92. @BF………………the media is clueless down here. People laying off full time workers to get under 50, business sitting on their cash….expansion plans being shelved for the next two or three years, no growth in existing business…..no investment in capital companies, no investment in anything but land for long term….and they do not get it. No one gets it…I am convinced that economics in most people does not exist past their I phone.

    • People want economics to give them what they want. When it doesn’t they think economics “failed”.

      They don’t want to do the necessary work to get what they want, they need something else to excuse them for their own failure.

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