A Changing World

The world sure is changing. Each day, some new emergency is on the news from somewhere. Cypriot’s have been robbed by their own government, Kim Jung Un is pounding his chest and thinks the world should shutter in fear, and the division between the people here in the USA continues to widen. Is this a promising future for our Grandchildren?

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Comments

  1. gmanfortruth says:

    🙂

  2. JAC…you have to read this to believe it……War Veteran Arrested for “Rudely Displaying” Rifle….by Todd Starnes. It is a lead story on Fox News.

    THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN TEXAS !!!!!

    Of course, this happened in Temple, Texas which is one of the most CONSERVATIVE areas of Texas. However, these cops are not from Texas even though they have lived here for a long time. No one, including the Temple police chief, has even the slightest idea why this happened and both veteran police officers have been immediately suspended pending investigation. (BOth actually need their heads examined).

    In support, there are, so far, over three hundred Veterans ( and the list is growing ), that are going to Temple this weekend. We are organizing a 1,000 man march and all of us are going to sling an AR 15 around ourselves and carry a sidearm and walk the same areas that this father and son did. One of the ironic parts of the story is that anytime you are outside of city limits in Texas, meaning rural, NO CHL IS NEEDED TO CARRY ANY FIREARM, concealed or otherwise.

    Wanna come join the fun? We will not surrender any weapon when asked by any police officer if we are legal and withing our rights. It should prove interesting.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13thecolonel

      Good morning Sir! Hope all is well in the Republic this AM.

      Greg Norman has been avenged, today is a GOOD DAY.

      I would love to join your party but have prior family engagement.

      I do have a question. Why the large show of support/testing if the Police Chief already disciplined his guys? Is there bigger issues with the Temple Police Force?

      By the way, this is not an issue in IDAHO. Everyone knows you can carry a long gun of any kind in public as long as your on public land. Sorry, I just couldn’t resist.

      Best to your family. Oh, I will get you that address today. Slipped my mind there for awhile. Also found some OREGON stuff to send as payment for my shameful betting habits. 🙂

      • The Police Chief only disciplined because of the uproar. Temple has a problem. But, you can walk anywhere with a long gun here also,,,,,which made this such an issue……These two deputies determined, by their own volition, that a long gun is NOT an AR 15 semi auto rifle. This is why.

  3. April 15, 2013
    Before the Gosnell Blackout, There Was Tiller’s
    By Jack Cashill

    If there was any real difference between what the late abortionist George Tiller did in Wichita over the course of his long career and what Kermit Gosnell did in Philadelphia, it was hygiene.

    Tiller had a largely white, middle-class clientele. They came to him from all over the world. Before his murder in 2009, he had boasted on his website of having “more experience in late abortion services with fetuses over 24 weeks than anywhere else in the Western Hemisphere, more than 60,000 since 1973.”

    Like Gosnell, Tiller routinely took the lives of healthy, viable babies eager to be born, in flagrant violation of state law. But given the expectations of his clients, Tiller kept a neater shop and, to ease the conscience of his supporters, almost always performed his mayhem out of sight, within the womb.

    Had Gosnell been in Wichita, he likely would have done the same. As clinic worker Tina Baldwin testified to the grand jury, Gosnell kept one room in the facility clean for the odd “white girl from the suburbs.” He would personally escort those patients to that room and even turn the TV on for them. More importantly, he, not his uncredentialed assistants, would administer the anesthesia. “That’s the way of the world,” he told Baldwin.

    I cannot add much to the discussion as to how or why the media have chosen to ignore Gosnell’s macabre practice, but I can speak with some authority on the Tiller case. Working out of Kansas City, I tried repeatedly to break the story out into the mainstream media, local and national, and never quite succeeded.

    Those who argue that the media turned their back on Gosnell’s patients because of their color miss the larger point. The media turn their back on these cases because of their nearly monolithic support of the abortion industry. In a red state like Kansas, with patients like Tiller’s, the media had to work much harder to suppress the truth. That they did, and that they continue to do.

    I started tracking the Tiller story in earnest with the election in 2002 of Republican Phill Kline as Kansas attorney general. Kline was a friend. I knew him well. I knew he meant business when he set out to make Tiller honor the law.

    As a state representative, Kline had helped write that law. The law allowed for a late-term abortion on a viable baby only “to preserve the life of the pregnant women” or to prevent her from suffering “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.”

    What Kline knew — what anyone paying attention knew — was that Tiller was making a mockery of the law. It has since come out that Tiller routinely translated an adolescent’s unease about missing a prom, a rock concert, or a chance to participate in a rodeo as “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.”

    Basically, Tiller would abort a healthy late-term baby for just about anyone who wanted an abortion. He was also refusing to report to state authorities, as required by law, the many young girls who had come his way as a result of a rape, statutory or otherwise. Kline suspected this as well and later proved it.

    That same year that Kansans elected Kline, they also elected Democrat Kathleen Sebelius, now head of the Department Health and Human Services, as governor. For the next six years, she did everything in her power to bedevil Kline and protect Tiller. What made her task easy was that she had the media in her pocket.

    When Kline attempted to secure the records that would prove the obvious, Sebelius’s bureaucrats and her pals in the media turned on him viciously. They labeled him “Snoop Dog Kline.” They called him a “panty sniffer,” a “zealot,” a “theocrat.”

    In 2006, Sebelius persuaded Paul Morrison, the popular Republican district attorney of the state’s most affluent county, to switch parties and run against Kline. The Kansas City Star’s support for “reproductive justice” in the battle against the “anti-choice extremist” Kline was so passionate, in fact, that Planned Parenthood honored the Star with the “Maggie,” its top national prize for editorial writing.

    With the full-throated backing of the media and Tiller’s massive financial support behind him, Morrison ousted Kline. Before leaving office, however, Kline had filed 30 counts against Tiller for performing illegal late-term abortions.

    In other words, Tiller stood accused of taking the lives of 15 fully viable unborn babies whose mothers were equally healthy, in utter disregard of Kansas law. While Morrison was reviewing these charges, Sebelius honored Tiller and his staff at an elegant but extremely discreet soiree at Cedar Crest, the governor’s mansion.

    Among the more revealing of the photos taken at the event is one of Sebelius holding a t-shirt presented to her by Tiller, which reads, “Trifecta 2006: Sebelius, Parkinson, Morrison.” In the photo, Sebelius points at Tiller as if to acknowledge his contribution to that victory. Not surprisingly, Sebelius and her minions would see to it that the prosecution of Tiller went nowhere.

    During this period, I served as executive editor of the region’s business magazine and appeared frequently on a local PBS panel show called “Kansas City Week in Review.” My publisher at the magazine was sympathetic but understandably squeamish. The Star had so poisoned the atmosphere against Kline that to run a piece in support of him risked losing the magazine’s advertising base.

    The Star reporters with whom I appeared on the panel show were wary. They knew I had the inside track on the Tiller story, but they would all but hold their hands over their ears when I raised the issue. They did not want to know any more than they knew and would find excuses to justify their incuriosity. The show’s host was a good guy, but the brass upstairs discouraged him from giving the issue air. In time, they simply stopped inviting me on the show.

    Fortunately for Sebelius and the media, Tiller was gunned down at his Lutheran church in Wichita on May 31, 2009. Now, finally, the media could address Tiller’s life and work.

    ABC, on both World News Sunday and Good Morning America, showed a 1991 interview in which Tiller insisted, “I have a right to go to work. What I am doing is legal. What I’m doing is moral. What I’m doing is ethical. And you’re not going to run me out of town.”

    NBC’s Nightly News showed a clip of Tiller stating, “You simply cannot retreat when you’re committed.” Feminist honcho Eleanor Smeal told an NBC reporter, “People don’t understand the need for this service, that women’s lives are saved, but he did. And he was brave enough to keep going.”

    The rest of the networks were just as effusive, if not worse.

    If someone had interviewed me, I would have said, “You want to blame someone? Blame Sebelius. Blame yourself. By protecting Tiller from the judicial system, you exposed him to the extra-judicial.” Needless to say, no one asked. They are still not asking.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/04/before_the_gosnell_blackout_there_was_tillers.html#ixzz2QXNGXwOg
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    I watched Anderson Cooper’s show where they finally covered the Gosnell case-He asked two questions-Why was he able to get away with this horror for so long? And why the media wasn’t covering the story? I wonder if they will ever be honest enough to admit that the second question answers the first.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      V.H. Per testimony ” Gosnell kept one room in the facility clean for the odd “white girl from the suburbs.”

      Now, if that don’t tell everyone that abortion is nothing more than population control for blacks, I don’t know what will.

      The media is useless, just like politicians.

      • The main reason that Gosnell kept a nice clean room for white woman, IMO, is that he knew that white woman were more likely to report him. Maybe black woman should think about that for awhile. These woman were grossly mistreated by this man-but they could have stopped him-some tried-but the majority just accepted being treated this way
        That is a very sad fact.

      • You know it’s almost funny-Planned Parenthood comes out occasionally and tests society to see if a majority is ready to stop lying to themselves. So far they have had to retreat.

        Because there is one thing every abortion doctor knows before he starts an abortion-he knows the fetus is alive. He knows he is killing a human being. whether it is in the first few weeks or the final months, a couple facts are consistent. The baby is alive and there are horrific remains left behind of hands and feet. So in truth why should we be so horrified at Gosnell-as far as the killing of babies inside the womb or a few minutes after-there really isn’t any difference.

        • Of course the abortion pushers do everything they can to stop those pictures from being shown. Don’t want anyone outside of the money making abortion industry to see the horrible truth. It might actually make a woman decide against having an abortion.

  4. Gay marriage is nothing more than an attempt to force people to accept that heterosexual and homosexual relationships are exactly the same. they are not exactly the same, they will never be exactly the same-because of children. They want to force society to claim that a mother and father is not important to the developement of children. that is the only reason they will not accept civil unions-we must all accept that they have the right to overcome nature in order to obtain their so-called rights. Keep on believing this is based on freedom if you want too-but it isn’t-it is based on control, not acceptance of their life style or their right to live it.

    • @VH – hi – I don’t ever recall hearing a homosexual, or one who supports homosexuals/homosexual marriage claim that a mother and father are not important to the development of children – what I have heard many say is that a homosexual couple is equally suited to provide the guidance, love, parenting, nurturing, etc to a child as is a heterosexual couple, a single parent, foster parents, adoptive parents, and other family members who provide a parental role where one or both birth parents are not available. I hear a lot of heterosexuals vehemently state that homosexuals cannot (and should not) be permitted to raise children.

      • I’ve heard them say it-I’ve read it over and over-but even if one hasn’t personally heard them say it-It is obvious-they are trying to get it codified in law.

        Our society is doing all kinds of things to make the natural family unit disappear. Single woman deciding to have science make them a baby to gays and hetero’s buying them from surrogates to etc. etc. etc. Now I don’t think I can stop science-obviously this crap has already been released into the world but we can try to stop it being codified in law as making no difference legally.

        • @VH – would you / could you elaborate a bit more on this role of science and the family? I’m not aware of efforts to codify involvement of science in making babies – I’m not even sure what the heck that means? My wife and I spent close to ten years trying to have kids – spent tens of thousands of dollars in tests, treatments, surgeries; wound our way through miscarriages and tremendous heartache and profound sadness. We eventually succeeded via IVF. Is that the science you are referring to? I guess we fit the definition of traditional family but perhaps not “natural” family? I would never look at my kids or the process that helped us have them as “crap”. Help me better understand.

          • Science can bring about good consequences and bad-like a lot of things in life. If you have read my comments-I think you are aware that I am talking about people purposely creating children through science for the express purpose of denying a child a mother or father. I don’t believe that has anything to do with you and your wife’s journey.

            • I wasn’t aware of what you were talking about – not sure I understand who does this….

              • One example off the top of my head-Perez Hilton just became a father through a surrogate mother. Now that may be great for Perez and the baby may be happy enough-but what the man did was just produce a child who’s mother pretty much abandoned her child at birth. I don’t think this should be encouraged.

      • How about planned parenthood & the homosexuals help design our sex-ed classes. Start with kindergarten and teach kids with no clue that abortion and homosexuality is normal and acceptable. This is pushing an agenda, not seeking acceptance.

        http://cnsnews.com/news/article/begin-sex-ed-kindergarten-says-new-national-standards-report

        • gmanfortruth says:

          26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
          40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
          http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

          The more I read this, the more it’s coming true.

          • 6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. (How much have we given to China in “foreign aide”?)

            13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. (When was the last time a child said the pledge of alligence in government schools?)

            15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.(Democrats… mission accomplish. Republicans will follow soon.)

            20. Infiltrate the press.(MSNBC… mission accomplish.)

            The more I read that list the more I see where the Democrats agenda comes from.

        • @LOI – statistically speaking it is likely that there are already homosexuals helping design sex-ed classes. So long as we always pay taxes that fund an educational system to which we hand over our kids, we accept, at some level, a tradeoff that certain subjects and teaching methods will be used that we don’t agree with. I roll my eyes ever time I read my son’s (3.5 yrs old) daily behavior report that says he made a “shooter” out of legoes. Really? Toy guns are so taboo that kids at that age get written up for them? As for the sex ed part? I dunno – I don’t automatically presume everything taught is the antithesis of my own personal philosophies before I see it.

  5. Here is where the divide in America can be seen easily.

    On the left we have Melissa Harris-Perry: “This isn’t about me wanting to take your kids, and this isn’t even about whether children are property. This is about whether we as a society, expressing our collective will through our public institutions, including our government, have a right to impinge on individual freedoms in order to advance a common good.

    She thinks the majority has teh RIGHT to impinge on the freedoms of the individual if it is for a “common good”.

    On the right we have Thomas Jefferson (first inagural address): “bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect and to violate would be oppression.”

    Tommy shows how the majority does have the upper hand, if and only if it is “reasonable” and that it “must protect” the minority (the individual’s) rights and to violate the individual’s rights “would be oppression”.

    So, who side are you on? The left that believe the collective can impinge indivdual freedoms or the right that believes the government should protect the individual from the will of the majority?

    • In the first part of an exclusive six-part interview with The Daily Caller’s Ginni Thomas, William Estrada — director of federal relations for the Home School Legal Defense Association — sharply criticized Melissa Harris-Perry for her recent comments in an MSNBC promotional segment regarding children and education.

      In the segment, Harris-Perry said:

      “We have never invested as much in public education as we should have because we’ve always had kind of a private notion of children. Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. We haven’t had a very collective notion of these are our children. So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it’s everybody’s responsibility, and not just the household’s, then we start making better investments.”

      Estrada, who advocates for the right of parents to decide how to educate their children, has since hit back.

      “Nothing could be further from the truth,” he said. “It doesn’t take a village to raise a child; it takes parents. Loving parents, in a home to raise a child.”

      “This leftist ridiculous idea that children somehow belong to the state — I thought we defeated this back with socialism, back with fascism and other entities which said: ‘Children belong to the state, they will be trained by the state to be productive members of the state.’”

      Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/14/homeschool-advocate-obliterates-msnbc-host-over-collective-view-of-children/#ixzz2QXrXCabk

      • gmanfortruth says:

        41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

        See what I mean?

    • FL…..it would be interesting to see if any on the left, that have children, believe and follow that clap trap. Responsible parenting will never allow this to happen. It does not take a village to raise a child and it does not take a government. It takes responsible parenting. How you raise your child is no business of mine.

    • FLPatriot,

      On the left we have Melissa Harris-Perry: “This isn’t about me wanting to take your kids…

      I “agree” with her in what I think her intensions are, but disagree with the specifics of her statements.

      I think society has an obligation to give every child the opportunity to succeed in life. That means a safe home, education, etc. But the parents are primarily in-charge of this, with society helping. Society only removes the child from the parent when the parent…”becomes the problem”.

      But, now let’s apply this to another topic:

      Tommy shows how the majority does have the upper hand, if and only if it is “reasonable” and that it “must protect” the minority (the individual’s) rights and to violate the individual’s rights “would be oppression”.

      So, then you agree Gays should be allowed to get married, because the majority does have the upper hand, if and only if it is “reasonable” and that it “must protect” the minority (homosexuals) rights and to violate the homosexuals rights “would be oppression”.

      We good with that?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Todd says “because the majority does have the upper hand”

        Let me correct you, because you do not have anywhere close to the upper hand. 38 States eith have Constitutional amendments or laws stating the a marriage is between a man and a woman. The recent SCOTUS case was about overturning what a MAJORITY of voters said in California. Please explain how you figure that the pro gay marriage people have the upper hand?

        For the record, I could care less about gay marriage. If it’s allowed great, if not, well then life will go on, I’n sure 🙂

        • G-Man,
          Seriously, you need to read closer.

          Those were FLPatriot’s words, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson’s words, that the majority (heterosexuals) have the upper hand, if and only if it is “reasonable” and that it “must protect” the minority (homosexuals) rights and to violate the homosexuals rights “would be oppression”.

          So, you have shown that 38 states are oppressing the rights of Homosexuals.

          Thanks!

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Todd “So, then you agree Gays should be allowed to get married, because the majority does have the upper hand, if and only if it is “reasonable” and that it “must protect” the minority (homosexuals) rights and to violate the homosexuals rights “would be oppression”.

            Those are you words, quite clearly. Maybe you need to remember what you right 🙂

          • Marriage is not a right!

            • As long as the government is involved it is.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                What??

                Explain that one please.

              • Marriage may not be a Natural Right, but as long as government sanctions marriage for a certain group of people, it has to be open to all.

                I’d also agree it is part of “your Right to Associate with whom you wish”.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              FLP

              It most certainly is a Right. A secondary Right linked to your Right to Associate with whom you wish.

              • Marriage is a privledge you have to qualify for, just like driving a vehicle on public roads. You have the right to assiciate with anyone you want but if you want the legal benefits of marraige you have to apply for them and not everyone is granted those privledges.

                A right can not be restricted when used properly. Ok, now Todd will bring up yelling fire in a crowded theatre…. then I will have to point out that that is not proper use of your right to free speech.

      • Civil unions are reasonable, civil unions can give them equal rights-it simply doesn’t say by law that gender is moot in all areas of life. Between gender discrimination and gay “marriage” we as a society are discounting the importance of a mother and father to their children. And even with science there is still a biological mother and father, unfortunately children have a hard time relating to a sperm or egg donor and I suspect they have a real hard time dealing with the idea that there mother sold her womb out and then just gave them away. But we aren’t as a society thinking about children anymore are we.

        • No – separate but equal is not valid.

          • Yeah I’ve heard that slogan being hammered around for years. But the institution of marriage is equal now-All people can get married to the opposite sex. What society now wants to do is make it so that people of the same sex can get married. This is not the same-it is different based on gender and on the ability to have biological children. Now based on gender-they have the right as far as I’m concerned to enter into government acknowledged unions-I do not think that means that their unions have to be treated exactly the same when it comes to children.

            But I am open to arguments that are based on something besides adults rights. What about the rights of children-to have a father and a mother. What advantage, please tell me is there to Purposely bring children into the world without a mother and a father? Why should homosexuals or single mothers have the right to adopt children?

            • VH,

              All people can get married to the opposite sex.

              But not all people want to get married to the opposite sex.

              it is different based on gender

              No – it’s based on who they love.

              the ability to have biological children.

              Marriage is not based on the ability to have biological children. Do you think Justice Roberts marriage should be voided?

              they have the right as far as I’m concerned to enter into government acknowledged unions

              Yes – those are called “Marriages”.

              I do not think that means that their unions have to be treated exactly the same when it comes to children.

              So you believe in SEPARATE and UNEQUAL? You feel Gays are second-class citizens and deserve second-class treatment?

              to have a father and a mother. What advantage, please tell me is there to Purposely bring children into the world without a mother and a father? Why should homosexuals or single mothers have the right to adopt children?

              The most important thing is that a child grow up in a loving, safe, nurturing home. It does not matter if there’s a mother and a father in that home, two mothers, two fathers, one mother, one father, grandparents, Aunts/Uncles, older siblings, or friends…

              As long as it’s a loving, safe, nurturing home.

              I know one gay couple that are parents – and they are great parents.
              I know many heterosexual couples that are great parents.

              I know some heterosexual couples that are LOUSY parents.

              You have a very “negative” and “unearned” view of people not like you…what is your justification for that?

              • Yes, obviously for me to disagree with you-I must have a negative view of people. Which I don’t-I just think people should accept that they shouldn’t always have everything they want just because they want it.

                None of your points make my points wrong. Marriage is still equally allowed under it’s traditional definition. I wasn’t talking about what was the same with traditional marriage and same sex unions-I was talking about the differences-so unions being based on love doesn’t mean they must have a marriage instead of a civil union-your refusing to acknowledge the differences doesn’t make them go away or make them unimportant.

                Making an issue of the fact that some heterosexuals can’t have children is actually a moot point-no one wants the government that involved in our private lives. A few heterosexuals may not choose to have children but when it comes to gays, their unions don’t even have the possibility to produce children unless they use man made procedures with the express purpose to produce children that do not have either a mother or a father.

                Second case citizens-why might I ask is it making them second class citizens to simply take note of the natural limits that their sexual preferences place on them. I did not place these limits on them, no one placed these limits on them -they just are a fact of life.

                And I too know many good people raising children that don’t follow the normal family structure but in most of those cases it wasn’t purposely planned that way. And it wasn’t planned that way because society knows that it is best for children to be raised by their real parents. At least people knew this before it became more important to argue for gay rights than for what is best for children.

      • Homosexuals have the rigth to live together and I would support civil unions, but marriage is a Christian institution and Christ only endorses a marriage between one man and one women.

        • I agree FLP-but why do you think God made it that way?

          • Thats a huge question VH and it is an important one. Unfortunatly I think it would get taken out of context in this forum. To be brief, I would just say it has something to do with demonstrating His relationship with His people and to give all the needed tools to raise children properly.

        • Maybe this is where you are confused. No one is talking about forcing any church to marry Gays. We’re talking about government issued marriage certificates.

          • Not true. There are already court cases based on discrimination laws that could apply to churchs if the definition of marriage is changed.

            • FYI, the current newly introduced legislation in Cal. to deprive not-for-profits (like the Boy Scouts) of tax exempt status for discrimination against Atheists and homosexual leaders. There are also laws in the Scandinavian countries, Sweden in particular, that restrict even religious free speech as hate speech for pointing out from the pulpit that scripture does not condone homosexuality. .

              • Good for Sweden!

              • I would further point out that if you re delusional enough to think, “It can’;t happen here”, then think back 25 years to the very concept “gay marriage”. Laughable at the time. Secondly, the “Patriot Act” can’t happen here either nor warrant-less searches, nor firearms confiscation nor a host of other “:it can’t happen here” things.

                To quote my old Pappy quoting an obscure character in a “B” Western, if you want to cook a frog, you don’t drop him in boiling water, he’ll jump out. You put him in cold water than slowly heat it up! Incrementalism is bitch!

            • Examples??

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Marriage is not a Christian Institution.

          Religion and the churches that support it are “institutions”.

          Marriage exists outside RELIGIONS.

          • Marriage was exclusivly a religious institution that has become a secular contract over time. It was a failure of the church that allowed government intervention into marriages.

        • How come Christ didn’t sign my marriage certificate? I feel slighted!

  6. FLPatriot,
    A couple questions for you.

    1. You posted this – obviously on March 29. What’s wrong with this statement?

    FLPatriot says: Friday, March 29, 2013 at 11:34 am

    He is risen!

    2. Based on your Christian values, how do you think Jesus would react to your attitude? WWJD?

    • I look forward to hearing Matthew 25:21 on my day of judgement.

      How about you Todd, what will you hear on your day of judgement?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        He will hear “Look out below”

        • Wow-Guys-not funny and a mite judgemental for me. Are there any among us who isn’t gonna feel a lot of shame on the day we stand before God? And who are we to stand in judgement of another man’s heart.

          • Not that Todd’s question wasn’t just as bad and intended to be a judgement call against FLP.

          • I will stand in front of Jesus with great fear and awe. I will also stand strong in my faith of His rightousness that He will keep His word when He tells me (John 10:27-30)

          • VH,
            Mine were serious questions. FLPatriot flaunts his Christian beliefs, while displaying an attitude that is anything but Christian.

            • “while displaying an attitude that is anything but Christian.” When?

              • Matthew 25:21

              • So, by quoting the Bible I am “displaying an attitude that is anything but Christian”?

              • The verse you quoted just seems just a little ARROGANT. Not very HUMBLE.

                Do you think you are a sinner and need redemption?

                Or have you been such a faithful slave you’ll just waltz thru the pearly-gates and be handed the keys to Heaven?

              • So Todd, you think the apostles Paul was arrogant (2 Timothy 4)?

                I know I am a sinner in needing of redemption, how about you Todd?

              • FLPatriot,

                So Todd, you think the apostles Paul was arrogant (2 Timothy 4)?

                I know I am a sinner in needing of redemption, how about you Todd?

                Do you ever answer a question?

                Or do you always dodge the questions and just ask questions of your own?

                That’s a sign that either you don’t have an answer, or you’re not very smart – or both.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          I was joking 🙂

      • FLPatriot,
        I’ll answer your questions after you answer mine – you have a habit of not completing conversations – Income Mobility, Fair Tax?

        • ha ha ha, your too much Todd. I honestly answer one of your questions and then ask you one and you ignore it to bring up an old conversation that someone else already answered you on. But thats ok, I’m used to leftiest moving the goal posts.

          • So answer the other question. Maybe you don’t know the answer? Do you want a hint?

            Yes, an old conversation that someone else…had to finish for you…but only one them. The other is still unanswered.

            Apparently your knowledge only goes as far as a URL.

            But I’m used to Righties afraid to debate…

            • Your question was answered by another person, do I need to repeat what he said to satisfy your ego? Sorry, I don’t like to be redundant. But ok, I’m afraid to have tha t debate so lets move on….

              What will you hear on your judgement day?

              • I’ll seek forgiveness and hope the Lord has mercy on my soul.

              • Forgiveness can be given today if you only ask for it. Jesus will give you forgiveness if you give you life to Him to be used for His glory. Waiting until the end is too late. Today is the day of salvation, tomorrow will be too late (Matthew 7:21-27).

              • You didn’t ask about today – you asked about judgment day.

                Do you even read your own questions?

              • Todd, are you drunk? Your comments seam to be off a bit today.

                I know what I asked and I was responding to your answer. Because you seam to be lacking in reading comprehention let me try and say it for you again.

                You don’t need to wait until judgement day to ask for forgiveness, you can have fogiveness today. Waiting until judgement day to ask for forgiveness may be too late, according to Jesus (Matthew 7:21-27).

              • FLPatriot,

                Your comments seam to be off a bit today.

                Maybe you’re using the wrong stitch.

                Or maybe they just don’t match your narrow-minded ideology…

                I read your comments. You jumped to the conclusion that I don’t seek forgiveness on a regular basis, with nothing to base that on.

                That too seems a little ARROGANT of you. I sense a pattern!

                I’d suggest you read Matthew 28:1-10 (but really focus on Matthew 28:1).

              • Todd, a Christian does not need to seek forgiveness on their day of judgement because a Christian has already been forgiven by Jesus. If you say you will seek forgiveness on your day of judgement then you are saying you do not have forgiveness today.

                I understand that cognitive reasoning is a bit about your grade level and I will do my best to keep the conversation on a level you can keep up with.

              • FLPatriot,
                I have no doubt your knowledge of the Bible is better than mine. I’d never seriously thought about “Judgment Day,” but I’m comfortable with my faith.

                I asked you about your “He is risen!” statement because you posted it on March 29, 2013 at 11:34 am – Good Friday. The crucifixion occurred on Good Friday. Christ rose on the Third Day – Easter Sunday. Matthew 28:1 makes that clear.

                I asked you about your “attitude” because Jesus preached love, tolerance, humility, patience, compassion, temperance. I’m sure I’m missing a few. But you seem to like to shove Bible verses in people’s faces to make your point…

              • PS – The Income Mobility discussion is still going on. You should join in!

              • “I asked you about your “He is risen!” statement because you posted it on March 29, 2013 at 11:34 am – Good Friday. The crucifixion occurred on Good Friday. Christ rose on the Third Day – Easter Sunday. Matthew 28:1 makes that clear.” That happened about 2000 years ago, today (and on March 29, 2013) Jesus is the risen lord.

                “I asked you about your “attitude” because Jesus preached love, tolerance, humility, patience, compassion, temperance. I’m sure I’m missing a few.” He also preached judgement and hell as a consequence of sinning. He also took a whip to those that desecrated His temple while throwing their tables around. (John 2:13-17)

                “But you seem to like to shove Bible verses in people’s faces to make your point.” I appologize if you feel referencing bible verses is “shoving” them in people’s faces. I always defer to the wisdom of God, He knows a lot more than I do. Even Jesus responded to questions by quoting the Old Testament. I do not do it as a way to demonstrate that I am better than anyone else, I reference Bible verses because they have greater wisdom than anything any of us can say.

        • Liberal Income Mobility set to music

  7. Hey G-Man,
    Anymore thoughts about volcanos and CO2?

    So, where did you find this claim?

    Todd, This eruption is putting more CO2 in the atmosphere everyday than an entire generation of humans could. Should we not see some major “WARMING” now, because the last 15 or so years haven’t quite qualified. BWAHAHAHA!

    • gmanfortruth says:

      I read that some time ago during a global warming debate. Not sure where exactly, but I’m glad you mentioned those studies, I’d like to find out more about volcano’s.

      I’ll try and find a link when I have more time. Hope you have a great day 🙂

    • It is a myth that volcanos produce more C02 than mankind. One problem to also consider, we do not have accurate measurements of undersea volcanos and their emissions. Considering there is more real estate underwater than above, the WAG we are going by should be questioned.

      But the real issue is if C02 causes warming or if warming causes C02 to rise…..
      http://www.co2science.org/about/position/globalwarming.php

      • My estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes. But it’s science – not a “good” topic here…

        • LOL, you’re such a little man, Todd.

          I think SUFA has been a very good place to talk science. Refer back to the many conversations with BF, and of course, our resident Scientist, Peter. They’ve shared a lot of information and great insight.

          • Well Kathy,
            BF and Peter aren’t around much anymore…are you trying to validate my point?

        • Todd, you appear to be ignoring science while crying it’s not a good topic????
          from the link I listed:

          “There is no evidence for warming-induced increases in extreme weather. Proponents of the CO2-induced global warming hypothesis often predict that extreme weather events such as droughts, floods, and hurricanes will become more numerous and/or extreme in a warmer world; however, there is no evidence to support this claim. In fact, many studies have revealed that the numbers and intensities of extreme weather events have remained relatively constant over the last century of modest global warming or have actually declined. Costs of damages from these phenomena, however, have risen dramatically; but this phenomenon has been demonstrated to be the result of evolving societal, demographic and economic factors.”

          • Do you think I’m going to believe the links you post, the quotes you pull from the links, or the conclusions you reach?

  8. Hmmm…..interesting. Among other things, she’s concerned with medical privacy? Sick mind.

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/04/15/flashback-michelle-obama-says-killing-a-baby-who-survives-an-abortion-a-legitimate-medical-procedure/

  9. Life of Illusion,
    Saturday you posted this:

    Errr, there’s a worldwide epidemic linked to animal/gay sex.

    Referring to this link: http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

    But there’s nothing in this link about animal/gay sex.

    So what do you have to back up your claim?

    • OK Todd, from the article AIDS/HIV came from animals, likely thru human/animal sex.

      “So did HIV come from an SIV?
      It is now thought that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees. It is now thought that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees.

      It is now generally accepted that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus because certain strains of SIVs bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV.

      HIV-2 for example corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the sooty mangabey (also known as the White-collared monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa.

      The more virulent, pandemic strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, was until recently more difficult to place. Until 1999, the closest counterpart that had been identified was SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. However, this virus still had certain significant differences from HIV.
      What happened in 1999?

      In February 1999 a group of researchers from the University of Alabama2 announced that they had found a type of SIVcpz that was almost identical to HIV-1. This particular strain was identified in a frozen sample taken from a captive member of the sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes troglodytes (P. t. troglodytes), which were once common in west-central Africa. ”

      It is pretty well established AIDS/HIV first became an epidemic in the gay community. Some religious groups even drew fire for making statements about “God’s wrath” and such. You left out my comment that women have always know there are some men who will screw anyone, anything. If it makes you happy, the first to contract and spread this may not have been gay or hetrosexual, but omnisexual. (anysexual?)

      And please forgive me for only repeating what I’ve seen reported. I know little to nothing about the subject of gay or animal sex and am happy to defer to you and Charlie’s expertise………

      • LOI,
        Seriously? You didn’t notice the next paragraph – “How could HIV have crossed species?”

        Animal / gay sex is not one of the theories.

        You left out my comment that women have always know there are some men who will screw anyone, anything.

        You think this is a valid comment that requires a response from me? Ok – I guess it’s women that you know – and know you – so maybe that’s where this idea started?

        And please forgive me for only repeating what I’ve seen reported. I know little to nothing about the subject of gay or animal sex and am happy to defer to you and Charlie’s expertise

        Yes, when you run out of ideas you resort to stupid personal attacks. I find these humorous – they show the limits of your…

        • “sigh” OK, it looks like I am wrong. me culpa

          How AIDs were transmitted to humans is only theory and unlikely to ever be proven without time travel, bush meat seems the most likely reason. And also sorry Todd, it was meant as humor, not a personal attack.

          • LOI,
            Yesterday you were pretty adamant about the “animal / gay sex” thing. Did you “time travel” back to determine that? Or maybe you have first hand knowledge?

            Now that the possible transmission methods don’t fit your narrow-minded ideology, it’s “only theory and unlikely to ever be proven”.

            Even when you admit “mea culpa,” you’re a stupid idiot.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        LOI

        Sorry to burst your bubble here but Todd’s got ya nailed to the wall.

        There is ZERO mention or even speculation about human sex with monkeys as a means of cross over. It was all about blood exposure during hunting or butchering animals for food.

  10. Just more Lame-Stream-Media lies I’m sure: “Scientists find Antarctic ice is melting faster”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/15/us-antarctica-ice-idUSBRE93E08D20130415

    • gmanfortruth says:

      I hope you mean that, because it’s correct. I’m glad to see that you realize that all the Man-made global warming stuff is a fraud. It’s just another BS excuse to suck more money from the people. Thank You for seeing the light 🙂

    • The National Science Foundation will offer a grant for “Ice Coring and Drilling Program for the Office of Polar Programs” with an Anticipated Funding Amount of $ 3,750,000. (This is only one of many grants)

      Do you think the government will give that grant to a scientist that has published reports that says global warming is false or one that support global warming?

      Read “The Trouble With Physics” by Lee Smolins, he talks how is feild of study (theoretical physics) has been corrupted by grant prejudices.

      Many ‘scientists’ will skew this findings to get grants, climategate proved that. http://www.climategate.com/

      • FLPatriot,

        Do you think the government will give that grant to a scientist that has published reports that says global warming is false or one that support global warming?

        I would expect the grant to go to whoever has the best proposal that meets the program requirements.

        Read “The Trouble With Physics” by Lee Smolins, he talks how is feild of study (theoretical physics) has been corrupted by grant prejudices.

        So there’s some disagreement about String Theory. What’s the connection?

        Many ‘scientists’ will skew this findings to get grants, climategate proved that.

        Do you want to discuss “Climategate”?

        • I would hope that the grant goes to whoever is demonstrates the best science, but government has demonstrated time and time again that it supports those that support it.

          “So there’s some disagreement about String Theory. What’s the connection?” Read the book and you will find out.

          “Do you want to discuss “Climategate”?” Old topic that has been settled for those with common sense.

    • Sure, use a period in the “Little Ice Age” as a starting point.
      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/15/western_antarctic_melting_nothing_unusual/

      • LOI,
        So what’s your position today:

        * The earth is not warming, it’s actually cooling?
        * The earth is warming, but it’s not caused by man?
        * Some other theory to fit today’s news?

        • My position today is pretty well where it has been since the whole AGW scare started and I did some research. The earth today has been cooling slightly which only proves the computer models the AGW crowd was pushing are crap (billion dollar crap).

          I think the earth has weather which affects warming/cooling. More clouds make a cooler planet.
          I think the sun has “weather”. Given the size of the sun, it’s weather patterns and our orbit have a greater effect on the earths weather/cooling/warming.

          If you compare the ice core data to human history, you will find the warmer periods were more prosperous. So my final thought is this is a scam aimed at frighting people.

          • “Climate scientists struggle to explain warming slowdown

            Not cooling. Warming slowdown. Do you understand the difference?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Todd

              Actually it is a cooling, compared to the last 20 years trend line.

              Kind of like a Budget CUT that is just a decrease in the rate of increase.

              Goose……… meet…………Gander.

              • JAC,
                I think you picked the wrong analogy…

                “Kind of like a Budget CUT that is just a decrease in the rate of increase”?

                That would be:

                Kind of like a Budget CUT Temperature DECREASE that is just a decrease in the rate of increase… 😉

                Gander……… meet…………Goose.

                Now quite bugging me – I’m trying to do some cyphering… 😉

  11. gmanfortruth says:

    Explosions at Boston Marathon!

    • gmanfortruth says:

      3 dead and many injured. I hope this is an accident and NOT an attack.

    • BOSTON (MyFoxBoston.com) – Two explosions shattered the euphoria of the Boston Marathon finish line on Monday, sending authorities out on the course to carry off the injured while the stragglers in the 26.2-mile trek from Hopkinton were rerouted away from the smoking site of the blasts.

      Competitors and race organizers were crying as they fled the chaos. Bloody spectators were being carried to the medical tent that had been set up to care for fatigued runners.

      Witnesses reported hearing two explosions on the north side of Boylston Street near the photographer bridge just before 3 p.m. Fox 25’s Maria Stephanos, whose husband had just completed the race, reported that the explosion appeared to come from the inside of a building, rather than on the street.

      “I was right there, I saw a plume of smoke coming from a building,” said Stephanos.

      Video from SkyFox showed blood on the ground near the finish line. A Fox 25 photographer at the scene reported seeing a number of victims with lost limbs.

      Reuters was reporting that the Boston Marathon headquarters was in lockdown.

      It was not immediately known how many people were injured or the extent of their injuries.

      The Boston Marathon was suspended. Runners were being stopped at mile 26.

      The Massachusetts Ave bridge was closed and the MBTA had suspended service on the B and C lines of the Green Line.

      Read more: http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/21982342/apparent-explosion-hits-near-finish-line-of-boston-marathon#ixzz2QYwO2qpo

  12. Just A Citizen says:

    Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights declares that “Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.”

    • I suggest we try this out in Mecca first.

    • JAC,
      It doesn’t say “Men and women can marry each other”. It says “Men and women can marry”. There’s nothing in this stopping gay marriage.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Todd

        It absolutely is saying men and women may marry and it absolutely means the opposite sex.

        Every reference to marriage where Gay Marriage is addressed includes separate statements about men and women or people of the same sex. This is no different and there is NO MENTION of same sex, homosexuals, people of the same sex, etc, etc.

        The Convention was passed in the 1940’s. Do you think it included homosexuals in a 1940’s International Convention?

        • JAC,

          It absolutely is saying men and women may marry and it absolutely means the opposite sex.

          I see nothing excluding same-sex marriage.

          Every reference to marriage where Gay Marriage is addressed includes separate statements about men and women or people of the same sex. This is no different and there is NO MENTION of same sex, homosexuals, people of the same sex, etc, etc.

          “Every” reference? Except the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights… 😉

          The Convention was passed in the 1940′s. Do you think it included homosexuals in a 1940′s International Convention?

          It didn’t have to be “included.” The fact is it’s not EXCLUDED…

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Todd

            You don’t EXCLUDE things via law or statements when those things DO NOT EXIST. 😉

  13. How quick to judge……CNN anchors speculating that it is local right wing zealots responsible for bombings in Boston.

    • Yep – tax day. Must be those anti-tax, racist tea partiers.

      These media people are such an inept, dishonest bunch.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      I watched a little TV on this and listened to some radio this afternoon.

      My God how absolutely worthless our media has become.

      Memo to MSM/Cable/ etc:

      Give the news and get on with your regular programming. Talking endlessly about something you have no FACTUAL information about simply makes you look stupid.

      Same for all you public officials that think you need to get your face or name on the air. Shut the hell up until you actually know something or actually have a role to play.

      End of pissy complaining.

      Had a great Nine Holes this AM. Only missed on fairway and only one BAD shot where ball was lost. A little to much “hook” on a 5 iron from 210 yds found the pond next to the green.

  14. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    “Marriage may not be a Natural Right, but as long as government sanctions marriage for a certain group of people, it has to be open to all.”

    NOT TRUE. Because “Marriage” is DEFINED as a union between man and woman.

    Govt does NOT deny Marriage to anyone……who meets the DEFINITION of marriage.

    Also….anyone can declare themselves “married” without Govt license/certificate. But the Govt will not recognize that marriage when it comes to property adjudication, disposition, custody of children, tax breaks, etc, etc.

    Furthermore, NOT ALL things granted by Govt must be available to all citizens, persons, etc. The Govt establishes thresholds for access to many things.

    You keep inserting what might be “desired” from a Rights and Freedom perspective into our “current” culture and laws. This is in fact what we get when folks undermined the fundamental Constitutional principles to suit their own desires. A mess of SCOTUS “interpretations” than create enough “loopholes” to qualify as Swiss Cheese.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Todd

      I do have to give you credit though. It used to be Buck’s job to find the cracks or “gray area” in the legal wording. Well done. He should give you some “honorary” Lawyer stuff as reward.

      🙂

      • My bill is in the mail…especially for that economic “thing”. That required overtime!

    • Sure – but DOMA restricts federal marriage benefits to only opposite-sex marriages and EXCLUDES same-sex marriages for all federal purposes.

      Gong!

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Todd

        NOT a Gong.

        It doesn’t matter. Govt discriminates all the time when handing out favors or “privileges”.

        The ONLY kind of Marriage that exists is Opposite Sex Marriages. You keep glossing over that. The Definition does in fact affect the other arguments.

        And lets remember, the reason DOMA exists is because a couple states decided they could “change” the definition of marriage and then the “groups” tried to use that to FORCE other States and the Fed to adhere to those States.

        What we have now is a MESS of contradictory concepts. This is the result of over 100 years of activism in the Courts. The irony is that if the left had not messed with some of the other concepts they would have a stronger Constitutional argument today.

        You see DOMA would not exist if not for the Court previously trying to impose UNIFORM laws on the entire country to recognize those of a single state.

        Yet, we don’t see that same stance when it comes to things like Gun Regulations.

        By the way, I spent two days on HuffPo arguing over gay marriage before we started here. During those two days I was constantly being beaten down by PRO side because I raised the issue of “Privileges”. I was flat out told that “Privileges” have absolutely NOTHING to do with Marriage. This was their “reason” that Civil Unions is not equal to marriage.

        Seems to me there is an effort here to have it both ways. You claiming that Civil Unions is “separate but equal” is FALSE. There is no separate, not if the issue really is about privileges.

        And by the way, Separate but Equal is entirely allowed under our Constitution. Again, it was an activist court that decided it would change the law.

  15. The attack in Boston has false flag written all over it. The blame will likely fall on a veteran and a tea party member. If it falls on Al-CIAda that would be just as muck a FF, we finance them. Sad day! I’m on the road on a business trip, nothing unusual on the interstate.

  16. Just A Citizen says:

    Like I said the other day. We need a few thousand Freedom Loving Tea Party types to move to Montana. Maybe 5000 total would do wonders.

    Then mutton heads like Tester couldn’t get elected. Next up ………. Baucus will wait to see if the Dems need his vote. If not he will say NO. Gutless gutter snipe.

    “WASHINGTON — Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) announced his support for the compromise on gun background checks on Monday, joining 51 of his colleagues. OK, YOU WANT TO GET ON WITH YOUR BUDDIES THEN JUST SAY SO. BUT DON’T RESORT TO THIS……………

    “This makes my Second Amendment rights stronger,” Tester said on the Senate floor Monday afternoon, speaking of the bipartisan amendment authored by Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.).

    “What Sens. Manchin and Toomey are trying to do with this amendment is trying to make the Second Amendment stronger for the people who are law-abiding gun owners, but yet trying to keep guns out of the hands of folks who cannot handle them in a responsible way — and have a record of that, a court-adjudicated record,” he added.

    THAT SOUND IS MY HEAD BANGING ON THE KEY BOARD.

    SPECIAL HEADS UP TO THE PROPAGANDA WATCHERS. NOTE TESTER’S USE OF “COURT-ADJUDICATED RECORD”. THIS PHRASE IS INCREASING US BY THE DEMS IN ORDER TO ALLAY FEARS OF ARBITRARY OF GOVT AGENCY DETERMINED MENTAL PROBLEMS.

    YOU CAN ADD IT TO “GUN SAFETY”.

    TOO BAD THE RHETORIC ISN’T KEEPING UP WITH THEIR ACTUAL ACTIONS. SOME OF WHICH GMAN HAS DISPLAYED HERE REGARDING VETS OR OTHERS BE DEEMED UNSTABLE WITHOUT ANY “COURT” HEARING ON THEIR COMPETENCE.

  17. You have to wonder if some people are so stuck in the “I must play politics no matter what” that they think this type of thing is just a big joke.

    Chris Matthews, Democratic congressman suggest Tax Day tie to Boston attacks
    6:07 PM 04/15/2013

    During MSNBC’s coverage of the Boston Marathon explosion, “Hardall” host Chris Matthews and Democratic Massachusetts Rep. William Keating speculated on what may have motivated the bombing.

    Keating pointed out that it could be related to Tax Day.

    “Now, we have an international event, the marathon, the oldest marathon,” Keating said. “And we also have Tax Day, April 15, so we don’t know if that’s the kind of symbol a domestic terrorist might use as well. So there’s a lot that’s not known, but we’re beginning to get a lot of information that will be shared with the public for their own safety. But a word of caution to everyone to just to really be careful.”
    Ads by Google

    Matthews remarked on the Tax Day suggestion, saying that it sometimes causes emotions “in the wrong parts of the brain.”

    “Well you’re right, congressman,” Matthews replied. “So many iconic days — it’s Patriots Day, it’s the Marathon Day, it’s the Kennedy Library always up there. And also as you point out — I just forgot because I filed already — that it’s filing day for the federal income tax, which does cause some emotions around the country, sometimes in the wrong parts of the brain.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/15/chris-matthews-democratic-congressman-suggest-tax-day-tie-to-boston-attacks/#ixzz2QZzRwZwP

  18. JAC,
    The 2/3’s from D13 link – Ok. And one of his links was the PEW report. PEW wasn’t in the title, so I didn’t notice that. But it’s all over the report – I don’t know how I missed that – just focusing on the data I guess! 🙂

    Mobility was the reason for the discussion, but FLPatriot brought it. So I just I started looking into it…

    If you (and me!) don’t understand the study, I’m not sure we can say whether it’s valid or not – or really what its implications are. That’s why I wanted you to provide some analysis – to help me understand it.

    I went “over-the-top” on their 3rd argument on purpose to show the how ridiculous it is. So the price of filet minion is rising faster than the price of hamburger. The wealthy make a choice to buy filet minion instead of hamburger. They could just as easily chose to buy things that are increasing in price slower. Of all income groups, they have the most ability and resources to make those choices. I still think it’s a ridiculous argument.

    Since I don’t understand all the details (and you can’t explain it to me!), I have a hard time taking it serious after they make that argument applying it to our discussion. Again, I was going “over-the-top” in my original comments…

    I’d like to see a couple of “reviews” or summaries of it by other “experts” to see how they put it in context.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Todd

      Re the different inflation for rich.

      It is more accurate and appropriate because of the REASON the deflator is being used. That is to reflect the change in purchasing power due to price changes.

      The point that was being made is that this “adjustment” is part of the analysis for the lower income groups because of the way the inflation index is calculated. But it is NOT included in the upper income brackets because the goods they purchase do not have the same “choice” consideration. So your comment that they can buy cheaper is not accurate.

      There are not necessarily cheaper products available as you move up the scale. Remember, the purpose is to identify the relative change of that person over time. Not between people.

      The propose method would be more accurate if the purpose is to show the “adjusted income” changes over time. In other words, inflation adjusted purchasing power.

      Remember, the inflation factor/deflator is not designed to make adjustments between income groups. It is to show the change in purchasing power of each member over time. So if the current method does not accurately reflect that for upper groups it should be changed. And it does not, in case you wondered. The methodology is skewed to those things where choice exists at the bottom.

      This is critical not necessarily to standard of living, but to the issue of GAP between groups.

      If the difference in purchasing power does not substantially change then the GAP is not changing, even if the gross incomes look farther apart.

      So I think you are wrong to reject the idea based on the statistical side of the issue.

      An analysis of things like standard of living, changes in income/wealth, and income/wealth GAPS require multiple analysis and data sets. It also requires some “correlation” discussion with non-statistical factors. Notice how correlation analysis is usually limited to one or two factors depending on who is making the argument.

      P.S.; My comment about not understanding the different CPI methods was not that you or I couldn’t understand it. I just haven’t seen the full analysis to be able to understand the assumptions and statistics. Quite frankly, I’m not sure it is worth the time.

      I think we have pretty good ideas of what the general situation looks like. One of the things that has not been discussed is the TYPES of incomes and how they are changing, among all groups. This was mentioned in that report I provided. Perhaps we can tackle that some other day.

  19. JAC and Todd…………..I found some interesting facts out today on income mobility. After doing my research and really studying the data that I found, I felt like I noticed all sorts of discrepancies…especially in the compilation of the data and how it was presented. I noticed that the government supplied data was flawed in that it introduced quintiles and then averaged them. You cannot average percentages. It is mathematically impossible. I also noticed that government entitlements were not introduced in to the income stream. I could not make the numbers balance. So I decided to take the next step and seek more authoritative reasoning. I made an appointment with the TCU (Texas Christian University) department of Economics. I talked to a Dr. Robert Garnett,( ProfessorPh.D. University of Massachusetts at Amherst teaching History and Philosophy of Economics, Economic Education, and Economics of Philanthropy. )

    I explained why I wanted to discuss income mobility and the fact that I was blogging and we all had trouble understanding exactly what income mobility was and how the data is interpreted. He allotted 30 minutes, so I asked him to first define income mobility. He said it is quite simple….it is the upward and downward movement of income adjusted for inflation. I then asked him if it was possible that any social pressures or standing impacts the term or meaning of income mobility. He said no because social standing does not lessen the value of a dollar. A dollar is a dollar. The value of one dollar to a millionaire is the same as the value of one dollar to a street bum.

    I then asked about the quintiles and the fixed percentages that will always reflect a lower percentage. Here is where he laughed and said that is where the data is very flawed. He said that all of the quintiles could double their income,,,,,and the lowest would still remain in the lowest even if they were above the poverty lines. He also said that the quintiles are flawed in that those in the lowest, who have income as well as government assistance, are not properly accounted. He cited an example of a lower income person with a part time job that makes $15,000 and gets another $25,000 in entitlements and assistance for a total of $40,000. However, the total figure is not included in the income mobility stream. This is where the data is seriously flawed and becomes a great talking point in the political hallways. The entitlement figure is deliberately left out.

    He also said that discretionary income of the lower quintile is just as high as those of middle and upper tiers. He cited that if the basic needs were provided by the government, then the wages earned become discretionary. Hence greater buying power for luxury items even for the lowest incomes.

    I thanked him for his time.

    I then arranged the same thing at SMU in Dallas except it was by telephone. I talked with a Kathy Hayes. Ph.D Professor Syracuse University, Public Economics, Urban and Regional Economics, Applied Microeconomics. The subject matter of this conversation was to discuss whether or not social pressures and generational poverty created a disparate impact on the ability for lower income streams to move upward. Her response was somewhat interesting given her educational background. I expected a more leftward approach as I have profiled all professors to be extremely liberal. She acknowledged that since the 80’s, the ability for lower income, ghetto, and inner city youths to get an education are there, the same as millionaire children, but the failure to take advantage of them is the driving culprit. She also said that in order for generational poverty individuals to move forward is to disavow cultural and class envy and quit feeling sorry for themselves (my paraphrase). She feels that will take a couple of generations to develop but could be shortened by a redirection of assets to educate and change culture norms (her words).

    Here is where the discussion ended as she had to hang up but I was grateful and thankful.

    I am still sorting out the details but you should get the gist of it. This should prove for interesting discussion.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13thecolonel

      Good morning Sir. This is my third try to respond. Computer problems again today. Hope it works this time so I can get to the swat and follow this am.

      The “averaging” within quintiles is not only mathematically possible but it does provide some useful information. It gives us a picture of how the average income within that quintile is changing over time.

      But, and this is key, that is all it tells us. It reveals nothing about mobility of the group or of the individuals within the group. And the latter is the most critical if we want to address “mobility”.

      Economic analysis is like all scientific and mathematical analysis. One has to start with the RIGHT QUESTION. Then you construct data to answer the question.

      What happens in economics is we ask questions but have to use EXISTING data to create the analysis. The data was not necessarily collected to answer that question. So the analysis ALWAYS contains inaccuracies or flaws, etc.

      This doesn’t mean we have to throw up our hands. We can develop some GENERAL conclusions. But specifics may not be within our reach.

      It is true that the lower 1/5 is ALWAYS the lower 1/5, regardless of income growth. However, as Todd points out, the average income within the lower quintiles does not increase substantially. This tells us that the “average income of the lower quintile” has not changed significantly over the past 30 years. But that is all it tells us.

      It does not tell us what the income distribution is within the group. Nor does the broader data analysis. The mean could be the result of a large population at the low and high end, for example. It also does not tell us what the “range” of incomes is within that quintile.

      You also raised the issue of “subsidized incomes”. I almost brought this up the other day but thought it best to hold off. So it looks you have forced the discussion.

      I DO NOT agree that the Govt subsidies should be included in OUR discussion of mobility. The essence of the subsidy is that it shows income status is DEPENDENT upon Govt Subsidy. There is some connection, however. Supposedly these subsidies should have provided the chance for people to “move on up”. If they haven’t then we know our subsidy programs are doing nothing but keeping people happy and locked in the Big Cities. Which was part of the original goal………….. 😉

      Again, the question asked is critical to the proper analysis. Subsidies become relevant when discussing “standard of living” or total income “gaps”. But again, there inclusion masks the fact that those subsidies are PART of that standard of living. Without them the standard would drop.

      All to often those that include the subsidies in the data ignore discussion of the second part. They only use it to debunk the left’s claims of “the poor are getting poorer”. The fact is they are NOT getting poorer. But……….that is because we are subsidizing them to the point they can have a net income greater than the quintile above them.

      Better post this before crash comes again.

      Hope all is well in Texas this fine day.

      Oh, and dittos on the analysis of Boston response. I would add that it looked like many of the bystanders were up to the task of initial response as well. Probably many EMT’s, ex-military, etc in the race and audience.

      • JAC……ummmm, sir……..I know that you can average numbers to fit a quintile…..but you cannot average percentages within that quintile. For example, if Joe Tentpeg had an increase of 10% in his income, and Marvin Gutterduster had a 20%increase in his income, and Mary Grabass had a 18% increase in her income….you cannot add the percentages together and then claim that the average percentage increase in that quintile was 10+20+18/3=16%. Then apply that 16% across the quintile…..baaaaad numbers and a skewed report.

        What was brought out by Todd, unless I ,misinterpreted his meaning, was his focus on ability to increase income and the mobility of getting out of the lower quintile int the upper brackets…..In other words, are the tools there……and yes, the tools are now there. They just need to be used. A kid in the ghetto can get out……but it is difficult because of the mindset that generational poverty and government subsidies generates. Why should anyone try to get out of a situation where they are “taken care of”? I do not buy the theory that they cannot……it takes hard work. Financing is there. Subsidies are there. All of the building blocks are there, it appears…..but one thing. Determination. Drive. Self reliance.

        Now, as to whether government subsidy is income and should be in the study…you and I will have to disagree and that is ok……Todd actually got me to thinking about it when he mentioned that the upper income had a better deal because they had more dollars. That is a no brainer. HOwever, that refers to discretionary spending. If one’s discretionary income is increased…..that is the what the result is supposed to be……. To have more dollars to spend at one’s leisure. Subsidies create discretionary income. If discretionary income is increased….no matter the reason….then I submit that the reason it increased MUST be a part of the study.

        Anyway…all this proves………………………one thing. If you have generational poverty created by subsidy…….you will always have generational poverty.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13thecolonel

          Good morning to you Sir.

          I was just nitpicking your statement that such a calculation was “mathematically impossible”.

          However, now I must dive deeper given your example.

          It is in fact not only possible but appropriate to Average the Percentages within a bracket. But again, it depends on the question and the answer must be accurately described.

          The method you used would yield the “average percentage increase in personal income”. This is a correct method if you are simply trying to figure out what the average “percentage change” was for all people within the group. The focus being the individuals.

          Now if you want to know the average increase in dollars you have two ways to go. Weighted average by the income of each person, or the simple average of all incomes. By incomes I mean the difference from year A to B.

          An average of the total income increase for the bracket, in percentage, would be the “average percentage increase in Bracket Income.”

          Re: The Subsidy. We are not in disagreement. I think I made the same point as you. I simply pointed out that it is not appropriate if we are talking about “income” mobility. The “subsidies” should however be included in the broader analysis of “opportunities” and “wealth” mobility as opposed to “income” mobility.

          And it should absolutely come into any discussion about EFFECTIVENESS of these subsidies. It the SAME people who get them don’t move up then they are not working. Except for the intended purpose of keeping people from rioting or even worse………..moving to the suburbs.

          • ok…given your examples…….I will agree…..even if you are from the West Coast.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Them are fightin words you Texican.

              I am from the Rocky Mtns or that area called The Intermountain West. At least we WESTERNERS know the difference between the WEST and some Southeastern State filled with Cacti and oversized Rattlers.

              Do not confuse my origins with my allotted time in PURGATORY. Although I am growing fond of all the Asian Food available here. In case I forgot to mention it to ya, my new “barber” is a Viet Namese lady who escaped with her father and uncle as a kid, just before the FALL. The anti everythings never think about how our sacrifices allowed those few “innocent soals” to make it to the USA to live FREE.

              By the way, Spousal Unit leader was two hours late getting home yesterday.

              BOMB threat to one of the bridges in downtown Portland, where the commuter train crosses.

              They switched trains TWICE, before letting folks from downtown head home.

              Also yesterday, TWO men exploding home made “explosive devices” in eastern Oregon almost killed themselves. One sent to Portland and other to Boise for Sever Trauma treatment. Officials found other “unexploded” devices and evidence of “several exploded devices”.

              Waited all day to see anything on the national news but it was never picked off the AP wire.

              • “The anti everythings never think about how our sacrifices allowed those few “innocent soals” to make it to the USA to live FREE.”

                You do realize how absurd this reads, right JAC? Do you include in “our sacrifices” the facts we invaded a completely neutral company (where we dropped more bomb tonnage than on Japan in all of WWII)? That would be Cambodia (Kampuchea) … I’ll bet they just loved how we turned that country into a target range … never mind all the other “innocent souls” we killed as collateral damage …

                Yeah, we’re a great country when it comes to doing the math …

  20. Kudos for the City of Boston. From a Colonel’s perspective:

    Emergency preparation was top notch. In preparation for emergencies, there was triage and mash units placed in positions that probably saved the lives of 50 or 60 people that would have otherwise died. These units were obviously prepared for trauma and not just runner’s injuries. Each hospital within 15 minutes had 5 emergency trauma units on standby. The National Guard was pre-positioned as volunteers but reverted to emergency defense immediately. A cursory glance at news pictures showed me that they had numerous emergency vehicles on station in less than five minutes which indicates pre-positioned equipment and all were staffed with trauma experts.

    Emergency ingress routes were obviously establish and the traffic barricades and lights were programmed for such an event. It is obvious that the training and the emergency drills paid off. while the normal panic was there, I noticed on the news pics that the trauma teams and the law enforcement were professional and were on scene with reasonable dispatch.

    The air ways were cleared for two miles and three thousand feet AGLto accommodate the care flight routes and ATC re routed all civilian and commercial aircraft. Inbound and out bound air routes were established to facilitate dust off procedures that inevitably saved countless lives.

    Another prospective, if it is true that undetonated bombs were found under a grandstand and on a glass bridge spanning the end of the route….this is organized and not the workings of a single ass hole. We shall see.

  21. @FLP “So, by quoting the Bible I am “displaying an attitude that is anything but Christian”?”

    No, by quoting the Bible you are displaying what a fool you are. Personally, I prefer to quote from The Friends of Eddie Coyle. “Life is hard, man. It’s a lot harder when you’re stupid.”

    • You live and blog among millions of bible quoting fools AND you missed the class on tolerance, you know, what you always demand we show. I am running out of tolerance for you bible and faith bashers 👿

      • Anita, my love … I demand nothing of anyone. Quoting the Bible as an authority as anything but fiction is foolish. It’s a good book of fairytales … that’s about it. If I were to quote from Marvel Comics, it would be just as invalid and foolish.

      • Anita, remember (Matthew 5:11) and place charlies comments in context of (Psalm 14:1).

        • Eddie Coyle (I forget which pages) … Jackie Brown tells some kid. “Life is hard, man. It’s harder when you’re stupid.”

          • You must have it really really really hard charlie, you must drink a lot in order to deal with how hard life is for you.

            • Life is a piece of cake, FLP. All it takes is not having blind faith! Think outside the box once in a while. Think for yourself! Don’t let other think for you! Experience life! And occasionally, read a book OTHER than the Bible … you might LEARN something.

  22. I know some of you don’t like Glen Beck but I hope you watch this video anyway. I found out that Gosnell had special Sunday abortions when the clinic was officially closed. His wife helped him with these killings because the babies were so big that they were afraid the staff would object. Can you imagine the staff would object to these but not the others.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/15/glenn-beck-exposes-abortion-doctor-kermit-gosnells-house-of-horrors-in-graphic-video-segment/comment-page-3/?corder#comments

  23. I guess insulting our allies is going to continue until this petty little man is out of office.

    No White House envoy to Thatcher funeral? Update: Boehner sending House delegation
    posted at 10:01 am on April 16, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

    And the British government is apparently unhappy about it, too. Sources within Whitehall told the Daily Mail that the Obama administration’s decision to skip sending an envoy to what has become a de facto state funeral for one of America’s staunchest Cold War allies came before the Boston terrorist attack yesterday, and that the White House had cited a “busy week” for the reason they couldn’t even spare Joe Biden for Margaret Thatcher’s
    funeral:

    Friends and allies of Baroness Thatcher expressed ‘surprise and disappointment’ last night as it emerged President Obama is not planning to send any serving member of his administration to her funeral.

    Whitehall sources have revealed that the US delegation at tomorrow’s service in St Paul’s Cathedral will be led by two Reagan era secretaries of state: James Baker and George Shultz.

    Though President Obama himself had not been expected to attend, there had been speculation that he would be represented either by Vice President Joe Biden or wife Michelle. However, the Obama administration had said it would not be attending Thatcher’s funeral before the Boston bombings.

    The Queen’s decision to attend Lady Thatcher’s funeral has effectively elevated it to a state occasion unprecedented for a political figure in Britain since the death of Sir Winston Churchill in 1965.

    Other world leaders, including Canada’s Stephen Harper, Mario Monti of Italy and Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, are attending the service in person.

    Normally, that would prompt attendance by a high-level figure in the US government — if not the President or Vice-President, a high-ranking Cabinet official. For instance, why not send John Kerry, the Secretary of State tasked with maintaining good relations with close allies like the UK? Instead, the US delegation will consist of two men who would be traveling as private citizens to the funeral already, essentially giving an official policy of ignoring the event and snubbing the other world leaders attending it.

    And why? Obama and Biden are too busy pushing gun control, according to the US embassy:

    But a US embassy spokesman confirmed that no serving member of his administration would be present to pay their last respects, citing a busy week in US domestic politics.

    ‘This is a hugely significant week in terms of US domestic politics,’ a spokesman added.

    He said that both the First Lady and the Vice President were ‘the President’s point people on gun control’, adding: ‘This is a week when there is a lot of movement on Capitol Hill on gun control issues.’

    Well, Kerry isn’t part of that, is he? (Oh, wait ….) They’re too busy to pay respects to someone who stood by America as a stalwart partner in the latter years of the Cold War, when it might have been easier for her to keep her distance. Shameful. And it’s not being ignored in the UK, either:

    Former defence secretary Dr Liam Fox, Lady Thatcher’s closest ally in modern-day politics, said: ‘I think it would be both surprising and disappointing if after President Obama’s fulsome tribute to Lady Thatcher, the American administration did not send a senior serving member to represent them.’

    Sir Gerald Howarth, chairman of the Thatcherite Conservative Way Forward group of MPs and peers, said: ‘The bonds forged between the UK and the US through Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher was instrumental in ending the Cold War and liberating millions of people.

    ‘That the present administration feels unable to be represented as the world marks the extraordinary contribution Margaret Thatcher made will be a source of disappointment to those who served with her in that great endeavour.’

    Smart power.

    Update: Just as a reminder, Congress decides separately on delegations to events such as this. I’d expect to see both the House and Senate send small delegations to the funeral.

    Update: Just received by e-mail, but it actually came out yesterday:

    House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) today announced he will send a delegation to London this week to represent the U.S. House of Representatives at the funeral of Baroness Margaret Thatcher, former prime minister of the United Kingdom. The delegation will be led by Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN).

    “Margaret Thatcher was one of the greatest champions freedom has ever known, and her funeral gives Americans and friends around the world an opportunity to pay final respects,” Boehner said. “I’m pleased that Congressman Blackburn will lead a House delegation to Baroness Thatcher’s funeral to communicate our prayers and condolences to her family and the British people.”

    The House delegation to London will also include Reps. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and George Holding (R-NC).

    The House delegation will fly to London on commercial air flights, in compliance with the Speaker’s directive that Member use of military air transportation be suspended with sequestration in effect.

    Also, our ambassador in London should attend the funeral, but that’s not the same as sending a delegation representing the head of state.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/16/no-white-house-envoy-to-thatcher-funeral/

  24. @FL P … variety is the spice of life, my man! Don’t be so rigid … experiment. Get out there and enjoy life! You never know, you might loosen up!

  25. gmanfortruth says:

    What a terrible thing that happened to all those people in Boston. The next question, who did it? Is this the event (crisis) that won’t go to waste (Iran anyone?). Is this the trigger that will lead to the economic collapse (a war can be blamed)?

    We should all be watching closely.

    • “We should all be watching closely.”

      Like we have a choice …

      Besides, Iran had a big earthquake yesterday … HE must have been pissed off … 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      gman

      Who did it? One or more people.

      Go to waste? No, it will be used to adjust security measures. The media and politicians will use it to beat somebody up. As for anything more, that depends on who they catch. But then we return to the beating somebody up part. That is a GIVEN.

      Trigger economic collapse? Absolutely NOT.

  26. @ Todd & FLP … Todd wrote: “That’s a sign that either you don’t have an answer, or you’re not very smart – or both.”

    I vote BOTH with a caveat … He doesn’t have an answer because he’s a ma-ma-ma … I won’t do it. I can’t do it! Gman hasn’t attacked me for being 5,000 pounds yet today …

    • I have not ever called a fatass, lardass, overweight donut eating pig or anyother name associated to your weight. I just won’t do that because it’s not your fault for being overweight, it’s the forks and the spoons who are to blame and they must be banned 🙂

  27. @ Todd & FL P … FLP wrote: “You don’t need to wait until judgement day to ask for forgiveness, you can have fogiveness today. Waiting until judgement day to ask for forgiveness may be too late, according to Jesus (Matthew 7:21-27).”

    This is also known as the earlybird discount ticket to heaven … buy now and get to Ginsu sets of knives AND a Shamwow!

    • Man, I LOVE my SHAMWOW!! 🙂

    • Charlie, you need to sit back and chill. You are a new Grandpa now. Give some time over to contemplation. The last two and a half years I have watched Jackie grow have been the most amazing in my life. I now have the time and the pressures on me are far less than they were 35 years ago with my own kids. Just watching her, even with all the simultaneous bad crap happening in my life, renews my faith each and every day. It is a miracle.

      • I’m with you, Stephen. I actually am chilling. FLP is a laugh a minute, not because he quotes the bible, though … but because he’s SO sure of himself (kind of like BF) …

        Births are miracles … for all and every kind of species … scientific miracles to me … spent Sunday morning with my granddaughter … it is wonderful. We should have a grandpa day!

        • Vatican declares Colorado boy’s recovery a miracle

          Published April 15, 2013

          FoxNews.com

          A Colorado mom whose son became gravely ill as a little boy has always figured his prayer-aided recovery was miraculous, but now the Vatican has made it official.

          Luke Burgie was just four in 1998, when he developed a severe gastrointestinal condition his doctors couldn’t diagnose, much less cure, according to The Denver Post. For six months, he suffered stomach pain and unrelenting diarrhea and even stopped growing. But the illness went away on Feb. 22, 1999, just as two members of the Sisters of St. Francis of Perpetual Adoration finished praying a novena.

          The nuns had recited a series of prayers over nine straight days asking Mother Theresia Bonzel, who founded the order in Germany in 1863, to cure the boy. Since then, the Vatican has investigated the case and has now scheduled Bonzel for beatification in November — a step toward sainthood .

          Just before Easter, Pope Francis affirmed that Bonzel was responsible for the miracle. Two miracles are required for canonization, or sainthood.

          Luke, now 18, doesn’t remember being ill or suddenly getting well. He doesn’t like to talk about any of it, his mother told the newspaper.

          The Vatican did not pronounce Luke’s recovery a miracle lightly. Journalist Bill Briggs, who wrote “The Third Miracle,” told the post the process is “rigorous.” Typically, the church interviews doctors in the case, and then has a team of independent medical experts review all relevant records.

          Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/15/vatican-declares-colorado-boy-recover-miracle/#ixzz2QeKqis1E

  28. Some blame has finally been laid on the Boston attack. The Obama adminstration will be blaming the SEQUESTER for God’s sake.

    Todd and Charlie, You personal attacks on FLPatriot are not amusing in the least. Both of you might as well be talking to the person you see in the mirror when your engaging in this activity, Frankly, I see this as an attack on Christianity as much as an attack on FLP. Do you guys get off sexually whenyou degrade people?

    • GMan, I appreciate your input. I am used to the level of ignorance and hypocrisy displayed by these two and do not take their comments personally. I only answer their insults in hope that the light of truth might eventually sink through their self-inflicted darkness.

      I still the good in the worst people, even when they refuse to see it themselves.

      • ignorance and hypocrisy … hmmm

        I think Dickens warned we should be beware of “Ignorance and Want” …

        One might say we want to be ignorant.

        You don’t have to say that, FLP … you cornered the market 🙂

    • “Do you guys get off sexually whenyou degrade people?”

      I can’t speak for Todd, but I find it more erotic than a banana split.

  29. Just A Citizen says:

    FLP, Gman, Todd and Charlie

    It is time for ALL OF YOU to stop throwing insults back and forth. You all complain about the other doing it but you all stoop to the same behavior. While this is a good example of human behavior it doesn’t move the debate forward here……………..at SUFA.

    The occasional jab is one thing but this is simply getting out of hand.

  30. The Gripping Story of Two Brothers Who Both Lost Legs in Boston Marathon Bombing: ‘Ma, I’m Hurt Real Bad’
    Apr. 16, 2013 5:27am Sharona Schwartz

    Two Brothers Watching Race Lose Legs in Boston Marathon Bombing

    An injured woman is tended to at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, in Boston, Monday, April 15, 2013. Two explosions shattered the euphoria of the Boston Marathon finish line on Monday, sending authorities out on the course to carry off the injured while the stragglers were rerouted away from the smoking site of the blasts. Credit: AP

    Witnesses of Monday’s Boston Marathon carnage reported seeing many serious leg injuries, including legs being blown off.

    “These runners just finished and they don’t have legs now,” Rhode Island state trooper Roupen Bastajian told the New York Times. The former Marine said he personally tied half a dozen tourniquets on victims. “So many of them. There are so many people without legs. It’s all blood. There’s blood everywhere. You got bones, fragments,” he added.

    That fate tragically struck one family twice on Monday. Liz Norden, a mother of five, says that two of her sons lost a leg in one of the blasts.

    She describes the unfolding of Monday’s event to the Boston Globe, which began with a call on her cellphone:

    “Ma, I’m hurt real bad,” said her 31-year-old son. He was in an ambulance, he told her, being rushed to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

    It was her second boy, who had gone with his older brother to watch a friend run in the Boston Marathon.

    On the phone, her son said his legs were badly burned in an explosion. His brother had been next to him, but he didn’t know where he was.

    Within the next two hours, amid frantic phone calls and a panicked drive into Boston, Norden pieced together the horrific truth that will forever change her two sons’ lives — and her own. Each of the brothers lost a leg, from the knee down. One was taken to Beth Israel Deaconess, while the other was at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. ‘I’d never imagined in my wildest dreams this would ever happen.’

    Reporter Patricia Wen took note that the mother, sitting in the waiting area of one of the hospitals, was wearing mismatched socks, an indication of the rush in which she left the house.

    She said, “I feel sick…I think I could pass out.”

    Norden, who had not yet seen her sons when the report was filed, said she didn’t want to disclose the names of the 31 and 33-year-olds without their consent.

    Both are high school graduates and avid fishermen who were recently laid off from their jobs as roofers, according to the Boston paper.

    Their friend, Mike Jefferson, whom they had come to watch run in the marathon was also at the hospital waiting to see them and hear an update on their condition.

    He told the Globe that he was about a quarter of a mile from the finish line when the explosion that injured his friends occurred.

    The girlfriend of one of the brothers was also injured, suffering serious burns, according to the paper.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/16/two-brothers-watching-race-lose-legs-in-boston-marathon-bombing/

    • So some comments after yesterday.

      Obama said he would go after and get whoever is responsible. Will he do that Benghazi style? Hasan style? Why should we believe him?

      He said something to the effect that when we find him/them we will find out why they did it. Huh? So we can apologize for wronging someone/someplace again? What an odd thing to say.

      And of course, he didn’t call it terrorism. Hardly a surprise. Because, the war on terror is over, you know, and AQ is on the run. Wonder if he considered saying there was a video involved…..

      So this bomber(s). Everyone is furious that someone could do this. Remember though, this is how Ayers started. Will the left someday cheer and celebrate this Boston bomber? Will the left ignore if a future president’s campaign is started in this Boston bomber’s living room? Will the Boston bomber someday be teaching on a college campus?

      Wish someone would ask the left and the president these questions.

      • “Obama said he would go after and get whoever is responsible. Will he do that Benghazi style? Hasan style? Why should we believe him?”

        I’m no Obama fan, but Bin Laden was killed on his watch.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Charlie, Osama Bin Laden has been reported dead as many times as Elvis has been spotted 🙂

          • To quote a great movie character, Teddy KGB: “It hurts, doesn’t it? …”

            In this case, to know the guy you hate so much gets credit for Bin Laden going down on his watch.

            Unless, of course, you think it was all staged and never happened … which means all those Navy Seals are nothing more than phony SOBs for taking credit for a mission that took place in a Hollywood Studio …

  31. Boy killed in Boston blast wrote, ‘No more hurting people’
    By Ashley Fantz, CNN
    updated 3:24 PM EDT, Tue April 16, 2013
    Watch this video
    8-year-old killed in Boston bombing

    (CNN) — Almost a year ago, 8-year-old Martin Richard wrote four simple words on a sign at school.

    “No more hurting people,” it said.

    For the camera, he held up the bright blue sign decorated with hearts framing the word “Peace.”

    It’s a photograph that many find difficult to look at Tuesday as they struggle to comprehend the violence that took Martin’s life. On Monday, the boy and his family were watching the Boston Marathon near the finish line when two bombs exploded just off Copley Square in the heart of the city.

    The grade-schooler was killed, authorities said.
    Photos: Deadly attack at Boston Marathon Photos: Deadly attack at Boston Marathon
    Boston witness: It was a war zone
    London Marathon solidarity with Boston
    Obama: Boston was ‘an act of terror’

    Martin’s mother, Denise, and his sister were grievously injured, The Boston Globe reported.

    Denise Richard underwent surgery for an injury to her brain, and Martin’s 6-year-old sister lost her leg, CNN affiliate WHDH reported. As of 1 p.m. ET Tuesday, both were still hospitalized, according to WHDH.

    The boy’s father, William Richard, is a community leader in the Ashmont section of Dorchester, according to the Globe.

    “My dear son Martin has died from injuries sustained in the attack on Boston,” Richard said in a statement Tuesday. “My wife and daughter are both recovering from serious injuries. We thank our family and friends, those we know and those we have never met, for their thoughts and prayers. I ask that you continue to pray for my family as we remember Martin. We also ask for your patience and for privacy as we work to simultaneously grieve and recover. Thank you.”

    After early reports conflicted about whether William Richard ran the marathon, a family spokesperson told CNN Tuesday afternoon that he was a spectator.

    At a loss: Comforting grieving parents

    Tuesday morning, people arrived at the Richards’ home in the working-class neighborhood dotted with large New England-style homes. On the stone steps of the Richards’ blue-gray house, visitors gingerly laid down flowers. Someone had written “peace” at the end of the driveway, according to the Globe.

    A 7 p.m. ET a candlelight vigil is scheduled at St. Ann Parish in Dorchester, about a mile from the home, church officials told CNN.

    Neighbor Jane Sherman told CNN that William Richard came home Monday night about 10:30. He seemed extremely upset and didn’t appear to want to talk, she said.

    On Tuesday at the Richard home, a 10-year-old girl who went to school with Martin came by with her mother.

    “We came here to pay our respects,” the mother told CNN. “My daughter was very sad. He was a very nice boy.”

    Martin attended the Neighborhood House Charter School, according to a school official.

    The boy “was a bright, energetic young boy who had big dreams and high hopes for his future, the school said in a statement. “We are heartbroken by this loss.”

    “We are also praying for his mother Denise, our school librarian and sister Jane, another Neighborhood House Charter student, who were seriously injured yesterday,” the statement said.

    The family represent “the very best this city has to offer,” it said.

    Also killed in Monday’s attack was Krystle Campbell, who graduated from Medford High School in Massachusetts in 2001. There were no immediate details about the third victim killed in the bombings. Of the more than 170 people who were treated at hospitals, at least 17 were in critical condition and 41 in serious condition, according to hospital officials.

    Martin made his “peace” sign in May when his school organized a “Peace Walk.” Holding their homemade signs, kids walked around the city making a big statement with a simple act. In bubble letters, one of his classmates wrote, “No more violence!”

    In another photo of Martin — this one apparently marking what was perhaps his first communion — he is smiling, missing a few teeth, handsome and proud in his white suit. He holds a colorful communion banner. On it is a dove that symbolizes the Holy Spirit.

    The Richard family was very active in the neighborhood.

    “They are beloved by this community,” City Councilor at Large Ayanna Pressley told the Globe. Pressley and other devastated residents gathered at Tavolo Restaurant in Dorchester to mourn.

    The family contributes “in many ways,” she said. “That’s why you see this outpouring. It’s surreal; it’s tragic.”

    Sherman said that the Richard family is a “typical all-American family” and that Martin and his little brother always loved to play in their yard, no matter the weather.

    Neighbor Dan Aguilar told The Boston Globe the same and said he was having a hard time wrapping his mind around the child’s death.

    “That little boy will never come home again,” he told the paper. “It’s still unreal. I have no words. I have no words.”

    While so much grieving continues, more details are emerging about Monday’s bombings.

    No suspects have been identified in the case, which federal authorities are classifying as an act of terrorism. It was not immediately known whether the origin of the bombings was domestic or foreign.

    The intelligence community is poring through all threat reporting for any clues, U.S. counterterrorism officials told CNN. That includes any claims made on jihadist websites.

    Nothing is being dismissed this early on, the officials said.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us/boston-boy-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

  32. Krystle Campbell, Second Boston Marathon Bombing Victim, ‘The Most Lovable Girl’

    Posted: 04/16/2013 2:01 pm EDT | Updated: 04/16/2013 2:49 pm EDT

    Krystle Campbell, a 29-year-old from Medford, Mass., has been identified as the second victim who lost her life in the Boston Marathon bombing.

    This is a developing story

    Campbell’s father, William A. Campbell Jr., told Yahoo News, “My daughter was the most lovable girl. She helped everybody and I’m just so shocked right now. We’re just devastated.”

    Hordon Health gym in Boston released a statement saying the company had “lost a member of its extended family,” Inside Medford reports.

    “Please take a moment to read… Light a Candle, Say a Prayer for our loss…,” the statement said. “Hordon Health lost a member of its extended family yesterday at the Boston Marathon. Her name was Krystle Campbell, and she died instantly yesterday at the bombings. Krystle could easily have been described as the salt of the earth, but her complexity demands more.”

    Boston Marathon Terror Attack | 2nd Victim Identified | GRAPHIC PHOTOS | 8-Year-Old Boy Dies | Hospitals Race The Clock | Bombing Guide | Video | Witness Accounts | How To Help | History Of U.S. Bombings | Bombing Timeline | Prayers For Boston | Media Coverage

    More from the Associated Press:

    BOSTON (AP) — A 29-year-old restaurant manager has been identified as one of three people killed in the bombing at the Boston Marathon.

    Her father says Krystle Campbell, of Medford, Mass., had gone with her best friend to take a picture of the friend’s boyfriend crossing the finish line on Monday afternoon.

    William Campbell says his daughter, who worked at a restaurant in nearby Arlington, was “very caring, very loving person, and was daddy’s little girl.” He says the loss has devastated the family.

    He says the friend was seriously injured in the explosion.

    An 8-year-old, Martin Richard of Boston, also died. He was at the finish line watching the race with his family.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/krystle-campbell-boston-marathon-bombing-victim_n_3093884.html#slide=more292339

  33. Just A Citizen says:

    OK, I don’t want to seem insensitive BUT………….Why are we lowering flags to half mast??

    Why are we doing this almost continuously anymore?

    From Michael Barry today…………………..News…………. Four Killed and 26 Wounded………….IN Chicago this weekend. In other News……………. Three killed and 136 Wounded in Boston.

    Are the flags being lowered for those people in Chicago??

    • I don’t know-I think it has something to do with one feeling like an attack on us as a people or an attack on our children-something we can come together about and grieve and fight against because it’s an unusual event. Even if one of us is guilty we will all stand against that one. But stuff like Chicago-that is day in and day out-that is not being sure who the bad guy is-that is our children -those are our people-that is hard.

    • Typical phony baloney schtick from the President who “cares”. This must be an incredibly slow news week otherwise. I have never seen such crummy reporting. Watching the press conferences is painful because the questions asked are so dumb. You would think that after all the false and confusing reporting around Sandy Hook, they would have ;learned something but nooooooooooo. I pity anyone who has to rely on the drivel pushers to find out what is going on. And the “experts”, now Mark Furman is n “expert” on bombs. makes me wonder what I could call myself if I threw in all the different things I have done in my life?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        SK, this has FBI written all over it. False Flag that every news agency knew would happen. Even the Boston emergency were totally ready.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          BULL CRAP.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            It’s fun that both of our comments can’t be proven, Except that the FBI has already arrested 2 patsies trying to use the same style bombs. This ain’t over yet, far from it. Let’s see how fast the gun grabbing crap goes thru Congress now. Sad event non the less. Nobody should have to endure that because of “pick a cause” idiot. I feel very bad for the victims and their families. I do not trust our govt, you know that already. The media are looking at “right wingers” as usual. Let’s see what happens, but don’t be surprised if another similar event occurs soon.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Another thing that pisses me off, is that Obama can claim this is terrorism but the Fort Hood shooting is work place violence. Screw him and anything he says. He only says this because he already knows (or is guessing) it’s not Muslim extremists. What a joke of a man 😦

  34. @FLP … Todd wrote: “I asked you about your “attitude” because Jesus preached love, tolerance, humility, patience, compassion, temperance. I’m sure I’m missing a few. But you seem to like to shove Bible verses in people’s faces to make your point…”

    Assuming (and it’s a HUGE assumption) that the Jesus version of God is the ONE TRUE God) … and assuming (and it’s even more HUGE) that there is a GOD) … what Todd wrote above precludes you (If you follow Jesus’ teachings) from being intolerant to homosexuality. No matter what the church says (Jesus tossed a few churches in his time, I believe) … if those are Jesus’ words, then you’re the one who needs to adjust, not the lefties. I am being serious (not that I believe the Jesus version is the ONLY one anyone should take serious, nor that I believe in a God). I’m just saying … those Bible quotes you toss around seem in direct opposition to what Jesus would have wanted, no?

    • Ya know Charlie…….I think I am going to use you (with your permission) in my classes to junior officers….you are a piece of work………misdirection…..you be da’ man and expert at misdirection. A lesson for all from the master. The “lame street media” is a romper room reject compared to you…….and that, sir……is an accomplishment.

      Caveat: JAC, I am only joking with Charlie. This is, in no way, an attempt at ridicule, name calling, cajoling, or other wise intended to do harm or slander said individual……

      perhaps…..

      • 🙂

      • Captain Canoli reporting for duty, Colonel!

        But the captain wants to know, sir … what misdirection? I am, in fact, a believer in smash mouth football, not misdirection. Misdirection is what you do when you don’t have the guns to move straight ahead. Are you claiming strawman? Where is the misdirection? I put questions to FLP Patriot and he didn’t answer them. Straight questions, no misdirection. 🙂

    • Charlie, let the Chrisitians discuss theology, you stick to whatever it is you think you believe in. If you want to know the truth about Jesus you let me know and we can discuss it, but only if you are serious. Until then, I will continue to pray for you.

      • FLP … I was brought up Catholic. I was an altar boy (if you can believe it), but I always questioned my faith. Frankly, I don’t think you’re qualified to teach and/or discuss Jesus. I think you’ve appointed yourself his replacement on earth, which is a bit troubling for me personally because the title of my thesis for graduation is The 2nd Coming and I’m Little Jesus … but even if I’m mistaken and you’re the real deal, if Jesus is that intolerant, HE can keep on walking … I’m just not interested in what HE has to say. The point, and there’s no misdirection about it, is: You seem to cherry pick what suits YOUR personal relationship with your God and not what your God seems to have preached.

  35. @FLP: “I asked you about your “He is risen!” statement because you posted it on March 29, 2013 at 11:34 am – Good Friday. The crucifixion occurred on Good Friday. Christ rose on the Third Day – Easter Sunday. Matthew 28:1 makes that clear.” That happened about 2000 years ago, today (and on March 29, 2013) Jesus is the risen lord.

    Another question not answered.

    “I asked you about your “attitude” because Jesus preached love, tolerance, humility, patience, compassion, temperance. I’m sure I’m missing a few.” He also preached judgement and hell as a consequence of sinning. He also took a whip to those that desecrated His temple while throwing their tables around. (John 2:13-17)

    So you now take it upon yourself to the judge, juror and executioner. Strike two, FLP

    “But you seem to like to shove Bible verses in people’s faces to make your point.” I appologize if you feel referencing bible verses is “shoving” them in people’s faces. I always defer to the wisdom of God, He knows a lot more than I do.

    Then why do you assume you can be judge juror and executioner?

    Even Jesus responded to questions by quoting the Old Testament. I do not do it as a way to demonstrate that I am better than anyone else, I reference Bible verses because they have greater wisdom than anything any of us can say.

    Once again, an assumption that you can do what you claim only Jesus can do and … you assume the rest of us are less than because we (many of us) don’t agree with anything quoted from the Bible and/or Jesus … so where’s the tolerance? Or do we deserve to be whipped, too?

    • Charlie, Romans 5:8

      ’nuff said.

      • ” But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

        Okay, so you’re brainwashed, but your response is about as credible as a Marvel comics book. Friends of Eddie Coyle … I forget the exact page.

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