Monday Morning Quarterback

Todd says:

Let’s be honest and non-PC, it wasn’t/isn’t a lock-down. It is martial law.

Well imagine that – you manage to be dishonest and contradict yourself in just two sentences.  Pretty impressive!

So when we disagree, I’m lying?

Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis.

How was it Martial Law in Boston?  And if all you can do is piss-n-moan about my definition, look it up yourself…

Such a way with words Todd, really invites polite, thoughtful conversation

It wasn’t martial law.  It wasn’t even a lock-down.  It was a shelter-in-place request.

A request made by pointing fully automatic weapons at homeowners and advising them to stay in their homes?  If a guy points a gun at you and demands all your money and you comply, did he rob you or did you willingly give him your money?  Words matter.  So do actions.  Call it a request but it was an enforced action.

Almost a million residents of Boston and surrounding towns were ordered to stay in their homes on Friday as the hunt for one of the suspects in the marathon bombing continued.

The suspects were identified as brothers, reportedly of Chechen origin. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, remains on the loose. Law enforcement officials said he was the suspect wearing the white hat in images released by the FBI on Thursday of the bombing suspects. His elder brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in the early hours of Friday after a car chase and shootout with police.

Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick warned people to remain indoors “with their doors locked” until further notice, after a night of high drama during which a campus police officer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was shot dead.

“We’re asking people to shelter in place: in other words, to stay indoors, with their doors locked, and not to open the door for anyone other than a properly identified law enforcement officer,” Patrick said.

“That applies here in Watertown, Cambridge, Waltham, Newton, Belmont and at this point all of Boston. All of Boston. This is a serious situation. We’re taking it seriously; we’re asking the public to take it seriously as well.”

The announcement, made during a brief press conference in Watertown just after 8am on Friday, dramatically extended the lockdown area to over 930,000 across the six neighborhoods. Earlier, residents in Watertown, population 32,000, had been told to stay inside, and public transport systems in and around Boston had been shut down.

“There is a massive manhunt underway, [and] a lot of law enforcement involved in that,” Patrick said. “We’ve got every asset that we can possibly muster on the ground right now.”

It is the police/government deciding your rights to personal safety shall be overridden by keeping the majority safe.

This is such a tortured argument.  No one’s rights to personal  safety was overridden.  If the bad-guy confronted you – you still had a right to defend yourself…

It’s a very simple argument, why couldn’t those who wanted, flee the area?  How about the women and children first?  They were looking for a skinny, young male.  Could the old, fat guys be allowed a peaceful exit before a heart attack?

If the bad guy’s in your house, it’s better for the state and majority that you be sacrificed so they catch/kill the bad guy before he kills a larger number. Limit them to one school, not five.

And this is just as bad.  If the bad guy is in your home, fight back, call the cops, flee – all the things you’d normally do. 

 Difficult, they have one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the nation.  He was armed with a pistol.  Even Obama would advise against that fight.

 I don’t think you’ll be arrested for violating the “Martial Law” if you’re running down the street with the bad guy chasing you…

No, you would have been arrested for leaving your home and violating the “shelter-in-place” request.  Charges might be changed later, public nuisance, resisting arrest, interfering with police operation. etc…  The point, whatever words are used to describe it, the actions were the same as martial law.  The police acted as if they were a military force and imposed a forced curfew.

And if you do call the cops in this situation, the empty streets will allow them to respond faster, spot the bad guy fleeing, etc.

Don’t allow parents to pick up their kids because the bad guy could escape in the confusion. ( Limit them to one school, not five.)

Ridiculous – the “Martial Law” was declared early in the morning – most people were at home, especially the kids.  The “idea” was to keep them there…My comment was intended as a response to Anita’s original post:

Anita says:

Question GMan, regarding the Boston lock down.

For instance..Today in my neighboring county there were 3 guys up to no good..shots fired in a neighborhood. The cops locked down 5 schools. It lasted a couple of hours and the cops flushed the bad guys out of a nearby home. Once the area was secure the cops lifted the school lock down. I’m not sure how other areas handle a police situation like this, but that’s how these things are handled around here. Does this fit your “police state” definition?

Don’t let residents evacuate a neighborhood because the bad guy mights dress up like a woman and escape.

Don’t you think the bad guy escaping during the evacuation is a real possibility?  Yes I do and agree it is best to prevent.  He’s already a mass bomber, don’t allow hin a chance to re-load.

How would you decide which neighborhoods to evacuate, and which not too?  Evacuate the entire Boston area?  Do you have any idea how much confusion this would create?  How many resources are you going to divert from the search to coordinate and protect this evacuation?

Above all else, don’t allow common sense or any thinking to disrupt a “plan”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8

What “common sense” or “thinking” was ignored?

http://www.dailypaul.com/283151/death-sentence-for-looking-out-window

Plans are made for a reason – so you don’t have to made so many “snap” decisions.  And despite your childish arguments – it worked.  Which is probably the part that bothers you the most.

I agree government does and should have the right to impose martial laws when an attack such as this takes place. I think their tactics and execution beg for exposure, thought, lawsuits and reform.

Then layout your “Monday Morning Quarterback” plan and tell us how much better it would work…

And if they had followed your “plan”, I have no doubt you’d be pointing how much better “shelter-in-place” would have been…

My plan, as such…allow limited evacuation.  An officer would have to walk up to each house and have a conversation with a homeowner.  This would expose them to a high risk that the (or a ) bad might be hiding at any one of these houses.  It has one benefit, you are forcing them to respond instead of allowing them to set up a situation where the odds are more in their favor.  The homeowners are given the choice to evacuate right then, or stay.  If they leave, the officers observe who leaves, search the vehicle ( for the fugitive only, permission will be given as a condition to evacuating).  The family leaves, front door unlocked (police are responsible for security until emergency is over) front door is tagged house empty.  For those who stay, front door tagged, house occupied & homeowner has indicated they are safe and alone.  Rather than waiting for the bad guy to make a mistake and be caught or decide to start shooting as many as he can, this would allow a reduction in the number of potential victims and at least let us act like we are still a free nation, not a police state.  Simple principle, allow people to make informed choices.

And maybe how I word things is a problem for some, let’s be honest is equal to the brutal truth is or as my aunt say’s, call a spade, a spade.   Consider ALL law enforcement agencies in the supposed freest nation in the world use ammunition banned for use in warfare.  Innocent until proven guilty, meet take no prisoners….  And the political strategy of “shelter-in-place”, can we find similarities in life?  In nature it would be “playing opossum”.  A gambler would call it playing “roulette”.  Russian roulette is loading one bullet in a revolver, spin and fire at your head.  US Homeland Security Roulette, when a terrorist attacks, wait until he kills some people where you can see him and kill him as quickly as you can. (oh, might want some ambulances and medical things handy….does Homeland security stockpile band-aids??)
I would also like to point out some of Todd’s comments.  We see all too often liberal attach, insult and disparage anyone they don’t agree with.  If you disagree with Obama for any reason, you are a racist.   Think Susan Rice lied to the American public?  Go ahead and admit it, you miss slavery.

Well imagine that – you manage to be dishonest and contradict yourself in just two sentences.  Pretty impressive!

 And if all you can do is piss-n-moan about my definition, look it up yourself…

 And despite your childish arguments – it worked.  Which is probably the part that bothers you the most.

This is a tactic to shut down conversation.  Liberals say they want free speech and an honest exchange of ideals.  They want a “conversation”, up til the point a different viewpoint is expressed.  When they cannot defend their position with logic, the personal attacks come out.  This seems to be the Tood’s of the blogosphere intent.  Attack, belittle, silence those who they disagree with.  USWeapon started this site wanting a place where ideals were voiced, where conversations took place without the personal attacks.  We you could disagree, but still respect the others opinion.  I have to wonder if Todd’s intent is to shut down SUFA by these tactics.  If we give up or become like him, he wins!

@D13, the dailypaul show a pic of a “soldier” pointing a machine gun at someone looking/filming out there window.  There is a shout, “don’t look out the window”.  By definition, this was not “martial law”.  The civilian government requested the civilian population to stay at home or indoors, where they were.  The state/federal government ordered police (& military?) to force people to stay indoors who then ordered at gunpoint, the civilian population to comply.  If a robber asks you to give him your money at gunpoint, it’s robbery, not charity.  If a soldier (Boston PD, FBI, Nat. Guard) points a machine gun (M4) at you and tells you to stay in the house or not to look out your window, that is martial law.  Technically, legally it may not have been.  But in reality, a para-military organization took over the streets of a major US city and by threat of arms, demanded civilians give up their right to move freely.

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Comments

  1. Bill Maher called Boston police officers “unprofessional” on Friday for shooting at the boat where Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was hiding even though it turned out he was unarmed.

    “I agree that we shouldn’t have given the kid his Miranda rights because he probably had information. We wanted to take him alive. We all agree with that.… there could’ve been bombs out there, there could’ve been an accomplice. So we wanted to take him alive. If you agree with that then what the cops did there was unprofessional. That’s called contagious fire,” Maher said on HBO’s “Real Time.”

    According to reports, no gun was found inside the boat after Tsarnaev was captured, although the Boston Police commissioner had earlier said that cops had exchanged fire with the suspect.

    Maher also said that America is becoming a “police state.”

    “I want to talk about the police, who I am a supporter of… Look at this, I mean if this is what you have – why don’t you invade a country? …. I mean go up to Canada – take their oil… This country is becoming a police state. And it is very troubling to me,” Maher said, while showing pictures of police officers patrolling the city and searching for Tsarnaev.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/bill-maher-boston-police-90700.html#ixzz2RrADZblw

  2. Bottom Line says:

    Was it “Martial Law”?

    No. ..not by the TECHNICAL definition.

    Was it a request?

    No. It was enforced.

    Call it Martial Law, a Lock-down Request, an Enforced Lock-down…call it whatever you want. You can call it a peanut butter sandwich for all I care.

    The bottom line is that people were forced against their will to stay in their homes, not look out their windows, unable to evacuate, roam freely about the city, and to have their homes searched, etc..

    I don’t think it was so much a conspiracy to condition people to accept a police state as much as it was zealous city leaders and police department proving to the world that they don’t mess around with terrorists in Baaston.

    • Kinda funny after Bush and the way liberals bashed him, trust in government is dropping under Obama. The majority elected him and the majority don’t trust his government?

      http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/americans-fear-government-more-than-terror/

      • Bottom Line says:

        ” For the first time since a similar question was asked in May 2001, more Americans answered “no” to the question, “Would you be willing to give up some of your personal freedom in order to reduce the threat of terrorism?” ”

        So they were asking people about ‘freedom vs security’ months before 9/11 huh?

        That’s odd… I don’t remember this being part of the national conversation until after 9/11 around the time The Patriot Act was being established.

        And how is it that The Patriot Act, as extensive as it was, was introduced a little over a month after 9/11? Seems like an awfully short time to write such a large bill.

        Hmmmmm….

  3. gmanfortruth says:

    I can say this, what happened on this Friday was , IMHO, what Martial Law would look like. You can call a duck a goose, but it’s still a duck. The same goes here. There were National Guard on the scene. There were hundreds of “militarized” LEO’s. I would like to hear from some of the cops who’s heads aren’t inflated with power.

    The tactics LOI spoke of are not new and the left use them often when they have nothing withing reality to offer. 🙂 I have explained all this not long ago. It’s much easier to be nice and address the subject 🙂

    • gmanfortruth says:

      If anyone wonders, I think this police action was a Beta test for future actions. I also don’t think they needed to “Shelter in place”. I went through all this before too!

      • I’m not pleased with what seems to be a standard response to all situations. In Anita’s post they locked down five schools. Did they also post officers at the schools? How many & did they cover each exit? And even if they did properly secure the schools, would allowing an orderly evacuation not reduce possible victims?

        And most importantly, what the Turkey situation????

  4. LOI….I don’t even know what Daily Paul is…..let me see what you were looking at and respond shortly. And I will ponder your “martial law” by proxy statement and respond.

  5. Two separate issues regarding Boston: staying indoors vs. unwarranted home searches.

    Was it merely a suggestion to stay indoors, as in, “there is a bomber on the loose that may be armed and dangerous and if you come outdoors, you may not only run into this person and get caught up in something (hijacked, cross-fire, hostage) but we also may not be able to respond to your need for assistance if you do choose to come outside”

    It did look on TV, like people were adhering to this request, but I’m guessing there were some that perhaps still went to work or just randomly went outside. Were they accosted by the police? Cars stopped? Were they ticketed? If not, then there was no martial law or forced locked down. Not unlike a weather emergency, really. They strongly encourage you to stay indoors and advise they may not be able to rescue you if you do decide to go out.

    The house-to-house searches are another issue to me. The videos I’ve seen of families being forced out of their own homes at gunpoint, and then searches of their homes being made without warrants was unbelievable. If this situation occurred in my town my natural instincts would be to hunker down and protect my property and let no one in.

    I hope more noise is made about this.

  6. The fact — or what was once referred to as fact — that the atrocity in Boston was the latest in over 20,000 violent acts committed in the name of jihad in every corner of the planet since September 11, 2001 will not be and must not be mentioned in our polite, oversensitive society. To do so is to invite accusations of thoughtcrime or the dastardly moniker of “phobic.” Attempts will be made to rationalize the mounting evidence that the killers in this instance were devoted to jihad and to discount the fact that the use of violence against anyone perceived to threaten or offend Islam is not only theologically permitted, but demanded.

    Did you know that the city of Boston may have indirectly funded the ideological training of the younger barbarian-inside-the-gate? According to the online media outlet the Daily Caller, the young Boston jihadists attended the mosque at the Islamic Society of Boston (ISB) in Cambridge. The ISB was allegedly the beneficiary of a deal with Boston’s municipal planning agency, the Boston Redevelopment Authority, in which the ISB was charged over $200,000 less for the land on which the ISB built. The Daily Caller reported that the deal was described as “an apparent financial handout” and “possible government subsidy” from Boston to the ISB.

    So what sort of ideology did the taxpayers of Boston help their city fund? Consider Islamic cleric Yusuf Abdullah al-Qaradawi, who was reported to have appeared on Internal Revenue Service records as an ISB trustee. In a 1995 speech, he said that Islam would “conquer America” and “conquer Europe.”

    Worse, ISB trustee Walid Fitaihi, who apparently helped arrange the Boston Redevelopment Authority handout, once wrote that Jews “would be punished for their oppression, murder and rape of the worshipers of Allah.”

    In other words, the taxpayers of Boston helped bankroll the fetid stew in which at least one of the marathon bombers marinated. What is the return investment on this sort of outreach?

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/04/boston_demands_that_we_know_our_enemy.html#ixzz2RroTLH8I

  7. LOI,

    So when we disagree, I’m lying?

    No, it’s not that we disagree:

    1. It wasn’t martial law, so you’re not being honest = dishonest.
    2. You say “Let’s be honest”, but you’re not honest = contradicting yourself

    Get it?

    Such a way with words Todd, really invites polite, thoughtful conversation

    No – it’s the honest truth. We spend more time arguing about “definitions” than anything. It’s usually used to deflect the discussion…

    A request made by pointing fully automatic weapons at homeowners and advising them to stay in their homes?

    How many incidents like this occurred, and what were the circumstances?

    It’s a very simple argument, why couldn’t those who wanted, flee the area? How about the women and children first? They were looking for a skinny, young male.

    See below about your plan.

    Could the old, fat guys be allowed a peaceful exit before a heart attack?

    Speculation. Conjecture. Emotional argument. Or maybe the evacuation will give them a heart attack?

    Difficult, they have one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the nation. He was armed with a pistol. Even Obama would advise against that fight.

    Your comments implied the “shelter in place” reduced/eliminated the option/ability to fight back. It didn’t.

    No, you would have been arrested for leaving your home and violating the “shelter-in-place” request

    Show me one piece of evidence to back this up.

    My comment was intended as a response to Anita’s original post

    Then why didn’t you respond to her?

    Todd – Don’t you think the bad guy escaping during the evacuation is a real possibility?
    LOI – Yes I do and agree it is best to prevent. He’s already a mass bomber, don’t allow him a chance to re-load.

    I don’t understand the “re-load” part?

    Sorry, I don’t have time to watch the videos.

    My plan, as such…allow limited evacuation. An officer would have to walk up to each house and have a conversation with a homeowner. This would expose them to a high risk that the (or a ) bad might be hiding at any one of these houses. It has one benefit, you are forcing them to respond instead of allowing them to set up a situation where the odds are more in their favor. The homeowners are given the choice to evacuate right then, or stay. If they leave, the officers observe who leaves, search the vehicle ( for the fugitive only, permission will be given as a condition to evacuating). The family leaves, front door unlocked (police are responsible for security until emergency is over) front door is tagged house empty. For those who stay, front door tagged, house occupied & homeowner has indicated they are safe and alone. Rather than waiting for the bad guy to make a mistake and be caught or decide to start shooting as many as he can, this would allow a reduction in the number of potential victims and at least let us act like we are still a free nation, not a police state. Simple principle, allow people to make informed choices.

    Hey, I give you credit for laying out a plan!

    An officer would have to walk up to each house and have a conversation with a homeowner

    Might this feel a little intrusive/intimidating?

    This would expose them to a high risk that the (or a ) bad might be hiding at any one of these houses.

    You mean the cops exposed? Agree.

    It has one benefit, you are forcing them to respond instead of allowing them to set up a situation where the odds are more in their favor.

    You mean forcing the bad guy to respond? Don’t follow this or how it’s a benefit?

    The homeowners are given the choice to evacuate right then, or stay. If they leave, the officers observe who leaves, search the vehicle ( for the fugitive only, permission will be given as a condition to evacuating).

    So if I don’t let them search my vehicle, they FORCE me to stay…I’m having some problems with that…thought you would too…

    Are they “pointing fully automatic weapons at homeowners and advising them to stay in their homes” when they do this?

    The family leaves, front door unlocked (police are responsible for security until emergency is over) front door is tagged house empty. For those who stay, front door tagged, house occupied & homeowner has indicated they are safe and alone.

    So those who stay could sneak next door and steal from those who left? Is this a setup? 😉

    Rather than waiting for the bad guy to make a mistake and be caught or decide to start shooting as many as he can…

    But nothing in your plan has addressed “looking for the bad guy”? Well, except for the cop at the front door. You’ve actually diverted many resources to evacuation instead of manhunt.

    this would allow a reduction in the number of potential victims and at least let us act like we are still a free nation, not a police state. Simple principle, allow people to make informed choices

    There is still that little “if I don’t let them search my vehicle, they FORCE me to stay” thing.

    Just stop and think about the number of people on the roads, resources needed, etc. Remember Houston trying to evacuate before Rita? (I think that’s the right city and storm – might not be). Highways jammed with cars. People running out of gas because they sat idling for hours and the few gas stations on the route were out of gas.

    This evacuation would take days…

    And maybe how I word things is a problem for some, let’s be honest is equal to the brutal truth is or as my aunt say’s, call a spade, a spade. Consider ALL law enforcement agencies in the supposed freest nation in the world use ammunition banned for use in warfare. Innocent until proven guilty, meet take no prisoners…. And the political strategy of “shelter-in-place”, can we find similarities in life? In nature it would be “playing opossum”. A gambler would call it playing “roulette”. Russian roulette is loading one bullet in a revolver, spin and fire at your head. US Homeland Security Roulette, when a terrorist attacks, wait until he kills some people where you can see him and kill him as quickly as you can. (oh, might want some ambulances and medical things handy….does Homeland security stockpile band-aids??)

    Sounds like this “rational” discussion is going to give you a heart attack?

    Let’s get a few things straight – they did take a prisoner, so that’s invalid. “Playing opossum” works for the opossum. Only humans are stupid enough to play Russian Roulette. All you can focus on is GUNS…and then you’re surprised the cops point one in your face?

    I would also like to point out some of Todd’s comments. We see all too often liberal attach, insult and disparage anyone they don’t agree with. If you disagree with Obama for any reason, you are a racist. Think Susan Rice lied to the American public? Go ahead and admit it, you miss slavery.

    So are we done with logic and reason and moving on to emotional arguments? Now you’re a VICTIM of one-big-bad-bully-liberal who is beating up on 10-15 conservatives?

    Want to talk about cases of voter fraud in Indiana?

    Well imagine that – you manage to be dishonest and contradict yourself in just two sentences. Pretty impressive!
    And if all you can do is piss-n-moan about my definition, look it up yourself…
    And despite your childish arguments – it worked. Which is probably the part that bothers you the most.

    The fact is all of these are true, and you have not refuted them. You’ve just pissed-n-moaned about them…

    This is a tactic to shut down conversation. Liberals say they want free speech and an honest exchange of ideals. They want a “conversation”, up til the point a different viewpoint is expressed. When they cannot defend their position with logic, the personal attacks come out. This seems to be the Tood’s of the blogosphere intent. Attack, belittle, silence those who they disagree with. USWeapon started this site wanting a place where ideals were voiced, where conversations took place without the personal attacks. We you could disagree, but still respect the others opinion. I have to wonder if Todd’s intent is to shut down SUFA by these tactics. If we give up or become like him, he wins!

    How is this argument based on logic and reason? And not emotional pleas and attacking the person? Seems you’ve run out of arguments.

    Show me the personal attacks I’ve leveled here? They’re nothing close to the crap you post every day.

    I spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME here trying to respond with civility to 10-15 people that are going farther and further over the edge. Maybe I’ll stop posting and let you “WIN.”

    • Not enough time to answer everything, so a quick post.

      “Show me the personal attacks I’ve leveled here? ” A couple weeks ago you called me a stupid idiot.

      They’re nothing close to the crap you post every day.

      “I spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME here trying to respond with civility to 10-15 people that are going farther and further over the edge.” Seems to me it takes no more or less time to respond without insults. You might want to reflect on where this all started. USWeapon wanted a place where people would come and share their ideals without the personal attacks you find at FOX, Huff.Post, etc…for my part, I will stop calling you a tree hugger if that helps keep the peace?

      https://standupforamerica.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/hello-world/#more-1

      • LOI,

        A couple weeks ago you called me a stupid idiot.

        That’s because you were making an argument based on information in a link that did not support your argument.
        When that was made apparent by JAC, you declared the information in the link only theory and worthless.

        Yesterday you were claiming voter-fraud based on an article about candidate nomination fraud.

        What would you call that?
        Was I inaccurate?
        Do I need to be more “PC” so I don’t hurt your feelings?

        Sure, let’s go back to USWeapon’s rules. But who is going to enforce those?

        I get called plenty of names here – by you and others. So what? Grow up and grow a pair…

    • “No, it’s not that we disagree:

      1. It wasn’t martial law, so you’re not being honest = dishonest.
      2. You say “Let’s be honest”, but you’re not honest = contradicting yourself

      Get it?

      Such a way with words Todd, really invites polite, thoughtful conversation

      No – it’s the honest truth. We spend more time arguing about “definitions” than anything. It’s usually used to deflect the discussion…”

      Sorry Todd, but I honestly think I have a point. I am willing to accept your or others definition on martial law. My point is it was defacto martial law. The actions were equal to the actions taken when martial law is declared. Calling it a PC name does not change the act.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/de+facto

      • LOI,

        The actions were equal to the actions taken when martial law is declared.

        What are you comparing too? When was the last time martial law was used in the US?

        I disagree the “actions were equal to the actions taken when martial law is declared.” No one was forced to stay indoors. NPR did interviews in downtown Boston with people who didn’t know they about the shelter-in-place order.

        No one was arrested.

        There was some heavy-handed police actions, but those can and do happen with any police action. Your “house to house evacuation” would probably result in more of these as police knock on “every door”…

    • “Your comments implied the “shelter in place” reduced/eliminated the option/ability to fight back. It didn’t.” ( the anti-gun laws in place there reduce the ability for citizens to fight back. Martial law had no bearing on that issue.)

      ” No, you would have been arrested for leaving your home and violating the “shelter-in-place” request ”

      “Show me one piece of evidence to back this up.”

      Todd – Don’t you think the bad guy escaping during the evacuation is a real possibility?
      LOI – Yes I do and agree it is best to prevent. He’s already a mass bomber, don’t allow him a chance to re-load.

      “I don’t understand the “re-load” part?” (Re-load would mean they might have other bombs made and want a crowded place to set them off)

      “Sorry, I don’t have time to watch the videos.”
      “Show me one piece of evidence to back this up.” (err, take a look at the video’s?)
      ( I think we will see little news coverage showing this, not any conspiracy issue, just the lock-down would also prevent the media from traveling and reporting as we might normally expect. That will leave us depending on citizen reporters/the new media. I think it best to doubt nearly all, but also think it’s best to ask questions. Did the police force people out of their homes at gunpoint, as shown?)

      • LOI,

        (err, take a look at the video’s?)

        Are you referring to the video of the guy looking out his window filming the cops raiding the house across the street?

        1. The guy recording the video – was his house raided? Was every house on the block raided? If not, then it wasn’t a systematic house-to-house search.
        2. So what is the “context” of the raid?
        3. It was a high-stress situation. The cops over-reacted in some cases. But it’s not the “police state” you’re trying to apply.

        (I think we will see little news coverage showing this, not any conspiracy issue, just the lock-down would also prevent the media from traveling and reporting as we might normally expect. That will leave us depending on citizen reporters/the new media. I think it best to doubt nearly all, but also think it’s best to ask questions. Did the police force people out of their homes at gunpoint, as shown?)

        The news media was out covering everything – no arrests. They were prevented from covering the “frontline” police actions – like any major situation of this type…

  8. gmanfortruth says:

    This is well written and explains my feelings on the matter. I wish I could put my thoughts down in writing better, because I suuuuck at it 🙂

    The American liberty movement, with little argument, was pretty much born and nurtured in the environs of Boston. And that is apparently where it died.

    In what can only be called the Siege of Watertown, the government essentially declared martial law in the Massachusetts town, put thousands of law-abiding Americans under house arrest and went from house to house frisking and searching homes while pointing automatic weapons at Americans. All to arrest a single teenager.

    In the end, the terrorists won. America lost.

    True, the dastardly crime of which the teenager is accused was vicious. Also true, the capture of the perpetrators was an important goal.

    Still, in the end, it was just a crime. It certainly did not warrant the behavior of the police and military in the conduct of its “manhunt.”

    A house-to-house search to hunt down a criminal is an egregious abuse of power. Your constitutional rights are more important than the capture of a criminal, even a terrorist.

    Yes, the lockdown was, on its face, voluntary. But tell that to the men in black body armor wielding machine guns and tanks as they treated the public as suspects, sources of interference or targets for displays of governmental authority. Can you really give informed consent with an M16 in your face? Having had the business end of an M16 pointed at me by a government agent before, I know the answer.

    The police narrative is the residents were fully cooperating with the lockdown and house-to-house search. Yet, videos taken by residents show this was not the case.

    While the video of soldiers with tanks, attack helicopters and machine guns patrolling an American town and searching door-to-door was disturbing enough, the lack of an outcry from those outside the area of operations is even more disturbing.

    Where, for example, is the outrage of the tea party? I am pretty sure the Sons of Liberty, the Boston group who, in 1773, destroyed 342 chests of tea by dumping them in Boston Harbor during the original Tea Party, would not have stood idly by and let government troops conduct a house-to-house search while placing the town under a form of house arrest.

    Does anyone doubt Samuel Adams, if alive today, would be vehemently protesting the government’s actions?

    When British soldiers murdered five innocent Americans and injured others three years before the Tea Party, did Bostonians run and cower in their homes? No, they stood their ground and only dispersed after being assured there would be a legitimate investigation into what we call today the Boston Massacre.

    Then, a leading patriot and lawyer, who was deeply involved in the liberty movement, agreed to defend the soldiers to ensure a fair trial.

    That lawyer, John Adams, wrote three years later: “The Part I took in Defence of … the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety. … It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country. Judgment of Death against those Soldiers would have been as foul a Stain upon this Country as the Executions of the Quakers or Witches, anciently.”

    Adams’ defense of those soldiers is the epitome of what it means to live in a free country. Despite being the enemy and despite the heinousness of the crime, they still deserved a fair trial that complied with all the rules.

    Compare that with the government’s actions after Tsarnaev was arrested. The FBI was upset that he was read his rights and allowed to consult with an attorney.

    Those defending the tyrannical actions of the government during the occupation of Watertown argue the government should be able to do whatever is necessary to protect the people, even suspending civil rights.

    There is a thin line between that kind of thinking and concentration camps, as I’m sure thousands of Japanese-Americans from the 1940s could attest.

    However, and this there can be no denying, there is no “public safety” exception to the Constitution.

    Do constitutional protections make it harder for law enforcement officials to do their jobs? Certainly.

    Civil rights are easy to protect when things are fine; however, they are most important during times of peril and should never be pushed aside, especially not at the point of a government gun.

    http://m.limaohio.com/news/local_news/article_0b27ec74-afa6-11e2-9806-001a4bcf6878.html

    • Ya know, the more I think about this, maybe it’s because this particular area of the country are mostly leftists – those that truly do believe in the higher calling that is government. From what I understand, they have tight gun control so they’ve already given up their ability to protect themselves because they do believe the government will protect and save them. Sheeple comes to mind.

      I guess the lesson for the rest of us to fight against this in our own towns. Manchin says he will be bringing back the gun control bill and forcing a vote again, because he believes many didn’t read it and that is why they voted against it. We need to fight this federal intrusion or we will all become Watertown, MA.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Kathy, You and I see the same thing, for the most part. I believe some other things based on photos that would be considered ” conspiracy theory”, because people are too damn nieve to believe that their govt could do these things (despite all the historical evidence).

        Where I live, it has been decided that it don’t matter what the Fed govt does about guns, they can come here and try and take them. It’s that simple. No big organization, nothing like a miltia that is prepping to fight. Just good people drawing the line. I hope they don’t cross that line. We know who voted for Obama and they have been warned. That’s not the nicest thing, for sure, but it happened without my knowledge.

  9. What a cluster this government is. And the IRS is going to monitor Ocare? Good lord.

    http://fox6now.com/2013/04/28/fox6-investigators-id-theft-kept-secret-by-irs/

  10. T-Ray,

    Do they have the right to destroy the value of their neighbors property without just compensation?

    Well…Yes. Who would compensate them? How do you determine how much? Do windmills destroy farmland value?

    How do you feel about coal-fired electric plants? Should the people who live “down wind” be compensated for having to breathe the pollution?

    If I build a Wal-Mart next to you, and your property value doubles, do you owe me for that? Of course, that’s not a good thing if its farmland that you want to keep farming vs sell it for development.

    This can all be solved with Planning & Zoning, but usually conservatives are against that.

    What’s your stand on that?

    The marsh was drained so they could farm this very rich soil. The drainage ditches are quite evident.

    I say we need to flood this area and return it to its natural state…all problems solved. 😉 (God I hope you realize that’s a joke…)

    • Todd. my foxy friend (look up the meaning of the name in Scots), the area we are discussing is conservatively 50 sq. mi. which if all planted in corn, translates to about 32M bu. that you can not convert to subsidized alcohol.

      I’m off to San Antonio for a couple of days.

  11. Interesting:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/27/false-flags-sharia-law-and-gun-grabs-gop-lawmakers-embrace-the-crazy.html

    Best quote:

    As Jonathan Swift famously put it, “You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.”

    • Just A Citizen says:

      I disagree.

      Reason can in fact be used to overcome the irrational.

      It all depends on the person one is dealing with. But I have found most humans cannot ignore truth or reality constantly. That is not without either psychological or adverse physical consequences.

      • JAC,

        It all depends on the person one is dealing with.

        Yes.

        But I have found most humans cannot ignore truth or reality constantly.

        After 4 years here, “things” are moving the wrong way…could you define CONSTANTLY? You know, throw me a bone…

        That is not without either psychological or adverse physical consequences.

        Do I need to MEDICATE or BEAT it out of (or in to?) them? Some days that sounds like FUN!

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Todd

          Almost everyone on this site started out Conservatives.

          Many of them have moved to the Libertarian or Anarchist side. That is due to their finally grasping reality about Govt. Their search is just beginning.

          Yours, on the other hand, doesn’t appear to have started yet. 🙂

          I would suggest medication, I wouldn’t want to see you hurt yourself. 🙂 🙂

          • JAC,
            Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about – sliding into insanity!

            And you (falsely) assume, that since I’m not reaching the same conclusion as you, I’m not searching… 😉

            Nice “re-re-misdirection” – I’m not the one who needs the medication…or the beating! 😉

            (nothing like pronouns to leave my comment completely open to interpretation!)

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Todd

              Let me correct myself. I don’t assume you have not started, only that you have not started down the right, as in correct, path.

              Some here seemed they were starting out OK but have taken some strange “shortcuts” which have led them to dark caves and quicksand.

              • JAC,

                Let me correct myself. I don’t assume you have not started, only that you have not started down the right, as in correct, path.

                Yes – cause your “path” is the only “correct” path! 😉

                Some here seemed they were starting out OK but have taken some strange “shortcuts” which have led them to dark caves and quicksand.

                This would be “Exhibit B”: LINK 🙂

      • You disagree, yet stick to black and white paradigms, which makes the quote Todd used a bada-boom, bada-bing, home run. 🙂

        • Damn – Why didn’t I see that????

          PS – I guess I did! 😉

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Because there really wasn’t anything to see.

            His comment made no sense.

            • JAC,
              Yes it did. My quote:

              “You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.”

              You said:

              It all depends on the person one is dealing with.

              Right. But the people were dealing with are not reasonable. They’re in the “dark caves and quicksand”.

              So, “You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into” applies to what you’re saying…

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Todd

                No it doesn’t.

                Reason can in fact be used to get someone to the truth.

                This saying is a rationalization of the notion that reason cannot overcome irrational thought.

                It is a stupid saying.

              • JAC,

                This saying is a rationalization of the notion that reason cannot overcome irrational thought.

                Reason can overcome irrational thought, but only if they’re willing to listen to reason.

                If someone doesn’t want to listen to reason, reason cannot overcome their irrational thoughts.

                How many examples of this do you want?

                “Exhibit C”: LINK

            • “His comment made no sense.”

              Bada-boom, bada-bing. There you go again. I love it. 🙂

  12. This is revolting. (major understatement actually). It’s all over the net and I’ve avoided it until now. But I decided to watch, because I wanted to see how they spin it. I’m sad, angry and sick to my stomach. It shows how much language manipulation and selective ignorance can justify any behavior.

    How sick we are as a society when we can call this a choice due to women’s health rights or reproductive rights or any of the BS the left tries to portray it as. It is killing. And our president not only condones it, he promotes it. Just evil.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/04/if-not-for-prior-gosnell-twitter-campaign-would-msm-be-covering-bronx-dc-revelations/

    • Yes, when you see people struggle to choose their words and not quite finish their sentences-it’s a pretty big clue that they know what they are talking about is wrong or illegal at the least and worse still, they know normal people who haven’t become de-sensitized to the horrors of abortion would know it was wrong so they have to lie to help those people justify what they are doing.

      The first video-the clinic people are claiming everything the girl said was wrong, that anyone who would say such a thing just didn’t know what they were talking about-seems to me, someone who has been working there for 11 years, since she was 16 years old-probably knows what’s going on. She’s just so desensitized that she doesn’t realize that some of the truth she let out of the bag is objectionable.

      • “Yes, when you see people struggle to choose their words and not quite finish their sentences-it’s a pretty big clue that they know what they are talking about is wrong or illegal at the least and worse still …”

        That or they’re politicians looking to not offend …

        Orrrrrrrrrrrrr, they’re taking the time to think about what they’re about to say, unlike those who condemn (which I sometimes do as well) …

  13. The fact — or what was once referred to as fact — that the atrocity in Boston was the latest in over 20,000 violent acts committed in the name of jihad in every corner of the planet since September 11, 2001 will not be and must not be mentioned in our polite, oversensitive society. To do so is to invite accusations of thoughtcrime or the dastardly moniker of “phobic.” Attempts will be made to rationalize the mounting evidence that the killers in this instance were devoted to jihad and to discount the fact that the use of violence against anyone perceived to threaten or offend Islam is not only theologically permitted, but demanded.

    Did you know that the city of Boston may have indirectly funded the ideological training of the younger barbarian-inside-the-gate? According to the online media outlet the Daily Caller, the young Boston jihadists attended the mosque at the Islamic Society of Boston (ISB) in Cambridge. The ISB was allegedly the beneficiary of a deal with Boston’s municipal planning agency, the Boston Redevelopment Authority, in which the ISB was charged over $200,000 less for the land on which the ISB built. The Daily Caller reported that the deal was described as “an apparent financial handout” and “possible government subsidy” from Boston to the ISB.

    So what sort of ideology did the taxpayers of Boston help their city fund? Consider Islamic cleric Yusuf Abdullah al-Qaradawi, who was reported to have appeared on Internal Revenue Service records as an ISB trustee. In a 1995 speech, he said that Islam would “conquer America” and “conquer Europe.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/04/boston_demands_that_we_know_our_enemy.html#ixzz2Rsg43k9Z

  14. FLPatriot,
    How about this case?

    A Nevada Republican arrested for voter fraud in the 2012 election, after claiming she was trying to test the system’s integrity…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/roxanne-rubin_n_2566297.html

    Voter Fraud, the dirty little secret that left refuses to acknowledge:

    Here are the facts:

    *To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
    *More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
    *There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
    *More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
    *True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
    *Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
    *This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states.
    California: 49,000
    Florida: 30,000
    Texas: 28,500
    Michigan: 25,000
    Illinois: 24,000
    *12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
    *The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
    *Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration

    (source: http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures)

    And for those that want to have fair and honest elections truethevote.org. is a good place to start. They have a lot of tools to help people get involved in stopping voter fraud.

    So 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud? What surprises me is that 4 states haven’t prosecuted or convicted anyone for voter fraud?

    But this does say “prosecuted or convicted”, so not all are convictions. I looked at a few states – the links were mostly to the most recent case (I think).

    So how many convictions nationwide since 2000?
    What’s the number/percentage in a given election?

    Most of the rest of the stuff is voter registration: More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.

    Ok – but how many have resulted in actual votes?

    I’ve said this before (probably before your time here) – if you want to clean up voter registration and voting – START RIGHT NOW. We have 3 years before the next Presidential election. Make the changes now and work out the bugs.

    This issue came up in 2008 and 2012. If it doesn’t come up again until 2016 – it looks like some rather “convenient” timing…

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Todd

      What is your purpose for splitting hairs over the voter fraud issue?

      I know I am a stickler for definitions but it seems this issue is really not one driven by differences in definitions. Virtually everyone would accept any monkey business with the election process as some type of “voter fraud”.

      Perhaps it would be more productive to address the connection between the problem and the proposed solutions.

      Yes, voter ID will not prevent signing up FAKE people. But perhaps voter ID would reduce the chance if the Voter who’s name is used will HAVE to produce ID to be counted.

      Now to the bigger question regarding the Illinois situation. Without those “fraudulent” signatures Mr. Obama does NOT get on the ballot. He is NOT elected to POTUS.

      So is he not in the office based on FRAUD???

      Should he not be removed IMMEDIATELY????

      • JAC,

        What is your purpose for splitting hairs over the voter fraud issue?

        Because it’s not voter fraud. But they’ll try to use it to justify voter-id, etc.

        I know I am a stickler for definitions but it seems this issue is really not one driven by differences in definitions.

        Yes it is. You have to properly define the problem before you can find a solution.

        Virtually everyone would accept any monkey business with the election process as some type of “voter fraud”.

        Election Fraud – yes. Voter Fraud – no.

        Yes, voter ID will not prevent signing up FAKE people. But perhaps voter ID would reduce the chance if the Voter who’s name is used will HAVE to produce ID to be counted.

        Not sure what this means? Every person who signs nomination papers has to present id?

        Now to the bigger question regarding the Illinois situation. Without those “fraudulent” signatures Mr. Obama does NOT get on the ballot. He is NOT elected to POTUS.

        Nope – too late. Once it’s verified, he’s on the ballot. If some signatures had been disqualified, they could have gotten more.

        It was the primary ballot. Dems can nominate whoever they want thru whatever screwed up process they want… 😉

        So is he not in the office based on FRAUD???

        Well of course – for SO MANY REASONS!

        Should he not be removed IMMEDIATELY????

        Absolutely! Why don’t you guys “gun up’ and march into the White House and remove him! I’ll be watching on TV and cheering you on!

    • The “system” is corrupt and run by incompetents. As previously pointed out, 45,000 bad guys try to buy guns in ’10 and are caught by the instant check. 45 are prosecuted! My children are still on the registration books here in NJ even though they have been gone for an average of 9 years each! Bernie Madoff is in Jail, friends of Angelo (Countrywide) including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are not. The borders are wide open. People who sneak into the US are released on a promise to appear.

      Everybody is too busy or the system is too overloaded to do anything, yet, at Tax time they seem quite capable of finding most of us and some really ridiculous mistakes.

    • Todd, are saying there is no voter fraud problem to worry about?

      • No – I’m saying you need to properly define the problem before you can determine the solution.

        Any comments on my link or my questions?
        Do you ever answer questions?
        Do you know what a “?” means?

        It just seem like a “one sided conversation” when all you do is throw out questions – especially “loaded” questions that have no basis in fact – and don’t discuss the issue, give your opinion, etc. This doesn’t have to be a fight…

        • Sorry, I don’t have as much time as I did before (nice to have plenty of work to keep me busy) to answer all your questions so I am sticking to the ones on the latest post string.

          If we agree that voter fraud is happening with dead people on the roles and people double voting how would you solve that problem?

          • FLPatriot,

            If we agree that voter fraud is happening with dead people on the roles and people double voting how would you solve that problem?

            Sure, some voter fraud is happening. But you have to determine how it is happening, how much, and why to determine a solution.

            How much TAX MONEY are you willing to spend on this?

            dead people on the roles – do you realize why this is? It’s not because someone registered a dead person. It’s because a voter died.

            people double voting – how often does this occur?

            My solution – hire a bunch of former ACORN employees to verify the voter rolls. 😉

            • “dead people on the roles” we have the same understanding, it is still a problem. When there is no need for ID then anyone can go in and vote in place of that person.

              “How much TAX MONEY are you willing to spend on this?” The money I would save from getting rid of DHS would more than cover the cost 🙂

              “My solution – hire a bunch of former ACORN employees to verify the voter rolls.” Ya, don’t think hiring criminals to police the voter rolls would be a wise idea 😛

              • FLPatriot,
                How about providing YOUR solution?

              • I would require states to issue photo voter id cards at no expense to the voter. WIth todays technology this would be easy to do and not that expensive. Of course a voter could use any other state issued photo ID card in place of the voter ID card, so everyone with a drivers license would not need one and reduce the cost to the state.

                A photo ID would give proof that you are who you say you are and that you live where you say you live. Easy peesy lemon squeezy.

              • I moved this forward to the next blog post…

  15. gmanfortruth says:

    Todd,

    Some questions Sir !

    Do you support gun control and at what level of control?
    Do you believe in personal responsibility (in reference to adult decisions)
    Do you feel that belittling people is normal (in reference to posted opinions on the net)

    • Yes. Universal background checks. Improved mental health screening. Enforcement of existing laws. Limiting guns/mags is a non-starter because it will just inflame all the crazies out there.

      Yes.

      Yes.

      • @ Todd…….we already have a universal back ground check. If you wish to expand that to gun shows….I can probably reach an agreement on this….but if you wish to create a government data base on registration….I will never agree. Health screening….is a toughie. I would not know how to start without impinging on rights. Would be open to suggestions but would balk at a national department being able to access all patients from all doctors and making a decision by a panel.

        • D13,
          My response to Gman was pretty short. Where did you get “create a government data base on registration” from?

          • Hi Todd……hope you are well. It was part of the first bill that was voted down. It was to start registration of all weapons upon introduction. Name address and phone numbers of sellers, purchasers, and transferees. It did not pass because the Dems even voted it down. It is up again as an amendment. If I can find the bill again, I will link it for you.

            No gun bill is going to pass with registration. That is a deal killer for me. There could be one thousand good points, but that one bad point would be a deal killer. The same with ammunition and casings.

            • Colonel,
              I gave my opinion on gun control. You’re trying (again) to project someone else’s opinion onto me.

              Why do you do that so often?

    • Gman,
      You asked the questions. Any response?

  16. Just A Citizen says:

    Without rehashing the weekend’s list of complaints, along with todays, I just want to point out that Todd is correct for the most part on the “name calling” issue.

    Although I don’t think it necessary to call someone “stupid” directly many of us do refer to “Liberals” or “Progressives” as stupid, etc, etc.

    So if the same were said of Conservatives or Libertarians then would you take it a little personal after awhile???

    Now with that said, the Progressives are certainly not “stupid”, “ignorant” etc. etc. They may be misguided by an EVIL philosophy but unless Todd’s quotation was correct, we can lead them from darkness via the use of REASON;.

    🙂

    Sorry I missed all the fun these past few days. Computer CRASHED, had to replace then had to learn to use Windows 8………………

    • gmanfortruth says:

      JAC, I have admitted my share of the name calling thing. Now, I will change the best I can. I will however still post video’s of stupid people 🙂

      • Just A Citizen says:

        gman

        If you want to call Liberals stupid then go ahead. But then just don’t complain if Todd calls you or conservatives stupid.

        I was not commenting on the second party insults as much as the constant back and forth of you called me a name, no I didn’t, yes you did, no I didn’t, yes you did, well if I did then so did you, no I didn’t, yes you did…………………

        There was an old saying in the world of politics where I lived at one time. It seems to have been lost.

        “Hard on the issues………….but……….soft on the people”.

        Of course this doesn’t mean we should all start acting like “Girly Men”. 😉

  17. Just A Citizen says:

    Here is a little to consider regarding the multi-day debate over marshal law and/or our devolution into a police state. From Wikipedia.

    A police state is a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

    The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[2]

    As the maintenance of a standing police force became common in the late 19th and early 20th century, the term “police state” came to be used[who?] more commonly to refer only to when a police force was used “too”[who?] strenuously, in a “rigid and repressive”[who?] way, as under fascism, crony capitalism, and in retroactive application to oppressive/repressive historic incidents like the French Revolution and the Roman Empire.

    The Oxford English Dictionary traces the phrase “police State” back to 1851. The German term Polizeistaat came into English usage in the 1930s with reference to totalitarian governments that had began to emerge in Europe.

    Genuine police states are fundamentally authoritarian, and are often dictatorships. However the degree of government repression varies widely among societies. Most regimes fall into some middle ground between the extremes of civil libertarianism and totalitarianism.

    In times of national emergency or war, the balance which may usually exist between freedom and national security often tips in favour of security. This shift may lead to allegations that the nation in question has become, or is becoming, a police state.

    Because there are different political perspectives as to what an appropriate balance is between individual freedom and national security, there are no definitive objective standards to determine whether the term “police state” applies to a particular nation at any given point in time. Thus, it is difficult to evaluate objectively the truth of allegations that a nation is, or is not becoming, a police state. One way to view the concept of the police state and the free state is through the medium of a balance or scale, where any law focused on removing liberty is seen as moving towards a police state, and any law which limits government oversight is seen as moving towards a free state.[6]

    An electronic police state is one in which the government aggressively uses electronic technologies to record, organize, search, and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens.

    So there you have it……………………….. Now answer the question for yourself and explain your reasons for where on the scale you think we are today.

    I expect to get the question so I will answer now. YES, in my opinion we are moving farther and farther towards a police state every day. Based on my personal values I think we are already there. But it wouldn’t be fair to those in the world living under absolute tyranny and “police state” to use the term definitively for the USA.

    But make no mistake, we have been moving that way for some time. One of the reasons I have voiced my concerns here so often about the “attitude” of the police force in this country. I know they differ but I am addressing the general, and the situation that probably fits most living in large urban areas.

    My reason? Just look at the military hardware used by the police. Watch the attitudes and arrogance so often exhibited. Think about all those people ARRESTED for simply taking pictures of Cops handcuffing someone.

    Think New Orleans and Katrina…………….. Think Boston……………Think Portland during the Mall shooting…………….Think about the many examples of Cops busting down doors and shooting innocent people when ………..oops………….wrong house.

    The situation is not healthy and it is getting worse. It is easy to rationalize when a bad situation like Boston occurs. But the same scene and methods unfold far more often than most of us are willing to admit. Our County fair last year featured the local Sherriff’s new “equipment”.. a little tour for the kids to see the RIOT trucks, actually modified battlefield troop carriers and the officers dressed up in “combat gear”.

    I got a very disturbing look when I asked the guy at the table who the Sherriff was planning to go to war against. It was a cold and clear look………………..ME.

    • Bottom Line says:

      ” I expect to get the question so I will answer now. YES, in my opinion we are moving farther and farther towards a police state every day. Based on my personal values I think we are already there. But it wouldn’t be fair to those in the world living under absolute tyranny and “police state” to use the term definitively for the USA. ”

      ” But make no mistake, we have been moving that way for some time. One of the reasons I have voiced my concerns here so often about the “attitude” of the police force in this country. I know they differ but I am addressing the general, and the situation that probably fits most living in large urban areas. ”

      ” The situation is not healthy and it is getting worse. ”

      Agreed.

      Everyone who realizes this is waiting for the government to pounce, to make it’s move…meanwhile it is exercising incremental-ism, slowly building up it’s force and adjusting laws.

      We the people are WAY behind. The time to start a revolution is NOW…BEFORE it’s too late. Arguably, the time was years ago.

  18. Just A Citizen says:

    Most American’s have obviously lost their courage to deal with the bloated Govt.

    All the Govt had to do to get them to Grovel and concede was make them stand in line an extra hour our two to catch a flight.

    Mush Puppies…………..that is what we have become. Barking like mad dogs only to piss all over ourselves when the “man” snarls back at us.

    • Why do you say this JAC-unless I misunderstood the agreement that was reached -they agreed to use money they already had to take care of the problem-they weren’t given any additional money-so the cuts stayed in place. Am I wrong about this?

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        Just look at the public’s response. Follow the similar responses to other programs being reduced. Like National Park closures.

        You are witnessing the Public Choice Theory BF spoke of so often, being exercised for all to see. It is summed up with “Cut the Govt, but don’t cut MY cookies. Cut the OTHER guy’s cookies”.

        As for the airlines, look at the Congressional response. Why not just say….YEP, we need to cut Govt so we all need to find other ways to get along without it.

        V., something you are not seeing in public is the massive “lobbying” effort going on by cities, counties, and States, along with private businesses to keep THEIR funding in place. Again…..cut somebody else, but our programs are critical……

        Those who make their living off us KNOW this reality. That is why they immediately tried to make the pain as big as they could. We are in a fight for our lives at this very moment. We are losing…………. not major yet, but losing none the less.

        You will know when we are winning because the media coverage will start to be about people who say ….. So What?…. We need to cut even more.

        When the editorials are about the next cut instead of how cutting will create a new Depression.

        We may be witnessing the last battle for Freedom in this country.

        • JAC,
          Conservatives and Republicans have been saying all along that the cuts are being applied by the Obama Admin to make them as painful as possible. But when the FAA furloughs started to have an impact, Congress acted to allow the FAA discretion in how the cuts are applied.

          So will you at least agree that it’s not the Obama Admin, but how the cuts were set up in the sequestration, that is causing the impact?

          I agree with the “Public Choice Theory.” That’s why cutting government is so hard, and has never happened.

    • JAC…….you said…”All the Govt had to do to get them to Grovel and concede was make them stand in line an extra hour our two to catch a flight.”

      You have no idea how correct you are….except what is not mentioned. At no time…..none….we’re there airways closed, rerouted, delayed take off times, landing times, or IFR slots closed down…….NONE. This originated on the ground far away from ATC….and I know this personally. I am a private IFR pilot and commercial traffic has the right of way. The very fact that no reductions to private flight in any major area…..supports my stance in its entirety.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        d13

        I also know of ZERO flights delayed. However, there were many being reported by the media. I never could tell if those delays actually happened or if it was only a threat. Such is the state of our MEDIA today.

        What was more real was the increased wait time in line. At SOME SELECT airports.

    • JAC…you said…”Most American’s have obviously lost their courage to deal with the bloated Govt.”

      Unfortunately, you are correct.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        d13

        It raises a perplexing question.

        How do we break the dam?? How do we get the first wave to lead the way, allowing the rest to gain the courage they need?

        This is where TEXAS is performing a great service to the Union. Along with Idaho and a few others of course. 🙂

        • Bottom Line says:

          JAC,

          People aren’t going to care or do anything until they are desperate, hungry, and licking boots.

          A lot of people are going to have to die or be enslaved before anyone gets it or gives a damn.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            BL

            I disagree. That will be true for some but not the many.

            I think they just need to be shown they can survive, maybe even thrive WITHOUT the benevolence of Big Uncle Fed.

            Sometimes people just need to be reminded who they are down deep. Then they will respond.

            • Bottom Line says:

              JAC,

              Watch the video I posted below. I mean really pay attention to the language being used, not only by the media, but the people as well. Then ask yourself how many of those people, complaining and expressing fear and whatnot, will vote and pay their taxes next year to support the ‘big government god’ that they feel is so necessary.

              It says a lot.

  19. I have a question-it is pretty easy to look at some of the things the authorities did in Boston and disapprove but very hard to determine just exactly what they should do-seems to me there has to be some kind of balance between our freedom and the right of the police and those who were going after this murderer-to protect themselves.

    • gmanfortruth says:
    • VH,

      I think that is a great question. It was a terrorist attack. One of the reasons a government was formed was common defense. Does that not require the city, state and national gov. to respond? Some are going to use this to attack/blame the Obama admin. or big government, etc… Such as on the right:

      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/29/ron-paul-police-manhunt-boston-marathon-bombing-su/

      And on the other side:

      “3. It was a high-stress situation. The cops over-reacted in some cases. But it’s not the “police state” you’re trying to apply.”

      I don’t think it makes them right or wrong. I would look at the ten things they might say and some will get me to agree with one thing, others might have eight or nine issues in common with me.

      With what I’ve seen, they had the right to impose martial law and it seems the best/only option at that time. I do not agree with the aftermath. They had a suspect and description. There is no legal reason I can see for illegally searching everybody and every home in the area where he was suspected of hiding. Anyone close to his description should have been searched or detained. Above all, citizens should have been treated as citizens, not suspects or subjects.

  20. gmanfortruth says:

    @Todd, You asked about some character named Misha awhile back. Here is the story behind this person: http://www.prisonplanet.com/misha-the-radicalizer-story-hits-a-speed-bump.html

    I would also like to ask if you support the police actions when they had a shootout with a boat and an unarmed injured teenager? They found no gun at the scene, so why did they open fire?

    • They found no gun at the scene, so why did they open fire?

      Probably because they watch too many Jason Strathern action movies … caught up in the moment … whatever … but not a government conspiracy. Wake up already.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Charlie

        The issue is not one of conspiracy but of an increasing trend towards police state.

        It is the manner in which the police are reacting to various situations which condition us to their outlandish behavior.

        • I don’t think anyone was conditioned by their outlandish behavior (and I agree it was outlandish) … I think the media created a general fear and people are so ramped up with the USA USA bullshit (hint, hint), they are willing to look the other way.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Charlie

            Every event that goes untested or unquestioned results in an increased acceptance. The “power” play increases over time without complaint, because we are conditioned by past reactions.

            There is also the conditioning of the multitude of COP shows and movies that have desensitized us to police FORCE. Do what is ever necessary to catch the bad guy.

            You say it was not conditioning then you make a case for conditioning. How funny.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Charlie, You could happily go overseas and chant Russia, Russia 🙂

      • Charlie,

        What about the law? America is supposed to be different in that we are all equal and the law must be applied equally. Police are protected for legal consequences of their actions as long as they follow procedure. They are allowed to use “lethal force” when their lives are threatened. Where was the threat? The guy was dying, bleeding out. Innocent until proven guilty or take no prisoners?

        And the not reading him his rights??? I almost wonder if Obama/Holder want him excused of his crimes because we violated his rights…..

        • Ask Mr. Nixon (get FLP to hold a seance) … Kent State.

          • Oh Charlie……keep Kent State out of this. It was not even a Nixon operation. It was a state operation by a “stupid” lieutenant. It was improper training….and it was pretty stupid to throw rocks at armed m day soldiers. A whole lot of lessons were learned and have not been repeated.

          • The Colonel left out the firecrackers. To quote my old Drill Sgt. throwing firecrackers around armed troops puts you in the “too dumb to live” category. Something like 50 C-47 aircraft, each carrying 20 82nd Airborne paratroopers were shot down during the invasion of Sicily by friendly fire. This was despite advance warning that they would be our planes, coming in at a certain time from a certain direction. The first guy who lets off a shot starts the chaos. Everybody else is on automatic after that.

        • LOI,

          Where was the threat? The guy was dying, bleeding out.

          They didn’t know this. Their last contact with him was a gun battle with the brothers throwing bombs…

          I haven’t seen an explanation about how the gun fire at the boat started when it turned out he was unarmed, but as I said before, I expect it was nerves/lack of experience/lack of training. But I’ll withhold final judgment until more facts come out.

          And the not reading him his rights??? I almost wonder if Obama/Holder want him excused of his crimes because we violated his rights…..

          But the GOP was screaming for this, and wanted him held as an “enemy combatant.” Do you agree with that?

      • Charlie……that is exactly what I would do. I would have ordered a surrender and barring any surrender, lay down grazing fire, and move in. He most probably would not have been gunned down if he raised his hands. Now, let us assume he was wounded and could not speak or stand up……it would still be a reasonable response to fire first, move in, and then arrest or pick up the pieces. The safety of my team takes precedent over the safety and life of the terrorist……and he was a terrorist….not a suspect. So, I would not waste a lot of time on whether a weapon was indeed found at the scene. The fact that he had one….is enough.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13

          I disagree. That view is good for military actions but not law enforcement.

          Perhaps that is part of the culture we are talking about here. When the safety or well being of the Policeman becomes top priority then the safety of citizens and protection of their rights becomes by fact…………secondary.

          Now lets look at our modern LEO. Most have technology that would have allowed them to determine if the suspect was functional and an actual threat. They could have established communications with him.

          It appeared to me that the police forces took on the mood of the public. Namely REVENGE and ANGER. This is part of what I see increasing. That bad cop in California was another good example. Those poor ladies were shot up because the Cops were out to GET EVEN and they viewed safety of the Men in Blue as TOP PRIORITY.

          There are many ways to protect your men and accomplish the mission. I submit there may be more in LE than military ops.

          I was thinking on this yesterday and believe part of this “militarization” started following that bank robber many years ago who armored himself. When the cops couldn’t bring him down with pistol fire every major LEO in the country used it to justify purchase of “armored” equipment and more high power fire power.

          Now this is a normal response of any organization, especially Govt. I need more, bigger and better, etc, etc.

          So the real blame lies with the CIVILIAN entity that authorizes the acquisition and tolerates the behavior. Which of course takes us back to how many Americans today will sacrifice their freedom for the illusion of security.

          • What I’d like to know if how the heck did brother #2 get away from the massive police shoot-out at all? Obviously no pics, but there had to be gobs of police, swat, etc, etc, and he got away? Don’t think I’ve ever even heard an answer to how that incompetence happened.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Kathy, The stories vary. The cops say he ran over is brother and dragged him. The dead body did not look like it had been dragged under a SUV. No witness’s have said he was dragged, that I know of. They did not have the guns that were originally reported, that was all BS. I’d bet the cops didn’t shut the backdoor and he drove off while his brother kept shooting till he ran out of bullets. The cops blew it!

              • Gman,
                I didn’t see anything about him being dragged, but the doctor who treated him said he had injuries from head to toe. Seems consistent with being run over.

            • Kathy,
              This may not be perfect, but it’s close – The events of Thursday night April 18th.

              Cops have no idea where the brothers are…
              The bro’s shoot the MIT cop.
              They car jack the Mercedes.
              They use the drivers ATM card to get $800.
              They stop at 7-11 for gas.
              The Mercedes driver escapes, but leaves his cell phone in the car.
              The cops track the Mercedes using the GPS in the cell phone.
              A Watertown cop spotted the Mercedes and the shootout started.

              Part of this shootout was captured on cell phone video by a guy in his house on the street where the shootout occurred.

              1. Lots of shooting
              2. Brothers throw bombs
              3. Bro #1 walks straight toward police, gets shot (maybe – not sure), runs out of bullets, tackled by the cops
              4. Bro #2 turns the car around, runs over bro #1 (cops just barely roll out of the way)
              5. Bro #2 speeds away

              This whole thing lasted 2-3 minutes. Two cop were involved at the start, and a 3rd showed up in the middle of the fight…

              After this is when the SWAT teams and the Cavalry converged on Watertown.

    • Gman,
      I didn’t ask about Misha. You said he didn’t exist…how come you guys always twist this stuff around?

      I find the whole “shoot-out with an unarmed boat” quite puzzling. I’m guessing someone stepped on a twig that went “SNAP” and everyone started shooting?

      And if I’m remembering the right video, there were A LOT of shots! How did the kid survive inside a fiberglass boat? Was he on the far side of the inboard engine?

      I would chalk this up to nerves/lack of experience/lack of training.

      If it was a “conspiracy” to kill him, he’d be dead…

      Unless you think the govnt is so incompetent they can’t even carry out a simple killing…which would mean all of your “big” conspiracies would be “unlikely”…can’t have it both ways!

      • “Unless you think the govnt is so incompetent …”

        That’s the fun with these theorists (and the theorists) … the goven’t can’t do anything right, but somehow they planned and executed 9-11 …

        Right.

        Get your heads examined.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          I don’t recall anyone claiming the 9-11 was planned and executed by our govt. The claim is that it was funded by the govt. Who do you think has funded Al Qeida since it was born? Oh, that would be our CIA and it started when Russia was in Afghanistan. You know, that really sick guy name Bin Laden was one of the leaders over there at the time. Just like now, Libya and Syria rebels, many are Al Qieda, are funded by…..our govt! Imagine that. 🙄

          • gmanfortruth says:

            OH Crap 🙂 Just when you think you have something, it all gets all messed up. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/fbi-report-implicates-saudis-in-911.html

            Oh, for the record, the Saudi’s do exactly as our govt tells them.

          • Gman,
            You constantly point out how incompetent government is…

            And then claim they are pulling off multiple conspiracies that no one can crack…

            No contradiction there! 😉

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Todd, you are only seeing a small part of the picture. They are getting caught, but the govt controls the MSM and the message. The following events have been proven to not be what they were perceived: The “underwear” bomber (put on plane by State Dept and admitted as such due to an American lawyer witness), The “Christmas Tree” bomber in Oregon, total FBI op, they planned everything and found a patsy to take the fall. First Twin Tower bombing was also proven to be an FBI op, by a Muslim who taped conversations with the FBI and released them in a press release right after bombing. He was paid 1.6 million and set back to the Middle East.

              That’s just a start, but you probably know very little or nothing about all of this. When the govt no longer controls the message, then they will crash and burn like the plane in Anita’s video link.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                It is because people who look at real facts and blow them off as irrational, is a time when our society has fallen so far off the cliff there is no return. The only thing left is the final blow, coming soon. The ignorant will perish first. Too bad, they were told the truth and refused it. 🙄

              • Gman,

                They are getting caught, but the govt controls the MSM and the message.

                So now the incompetent government “controls the MSM and the message”? How do such incompetent people rise to the top of, and control, two of the most powerful institutions in the world?

                And manage to deceive 99.99% of the people in the world?

                The following events have been proven to not be what they were perceived

                Proven? According to what standard?

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Proven? According to what standard?

                Proven because the govt. admitted it. I posted all of this in the past, you ignored it. Oh Well. I’m not doing it twice for you, that’s for sure. You can’t handle facts, 🙂

      • Todd….good questions. My response below still stands, however, allow me some response from experience…(combat…not law enforcement)….

        Did someone hear a twig snap….is actually good analogy. When one fires, for whatever reason, everyone will fire. It is inevitable. We’re nerves on edge? Probably, and for good reason. Is law enforcement trained for this type of scenario? Nope. I have been to observe swat training before as an advisor, and the swat teams are trained for one thing……search and destroy. Swat is called in when all other efforts were supposed to have failed.

        Lack of experience is also key. Chasing robbers in shoot outs do not train anyone for this type of scenario.

        This kid was NOT a victim. He was a murderer and plotter. Do not blame his brother….the bottom line is………pre meditated. I have no problem with him not being armed. No one knew that. I have watched the infrared pics by the helicopter very closely…..the heat signature showed only one thing….a body laying down and moving…infrared cannot tell whether or not he is armed or wired.

        If it had been my operation, I would have informed the police to secure the area and then back off when my trained unit arrives, complete with a negotiator. The negotiator has three hours to get whomever to surrender……if not……my team takes him out. Period. No hassles. You only get mirandized when in custody…not before. In my operation, the lad would already be in the ground conversing with his 70 virgins.

        • …the only virgins are dead nuns 😉

        • Colonel,
          I agree with most of this, but have a question on this:

          This kid was NOT a victim. He was a murderer and plotter. Do not blame his brother….the bottom line is………pre meditated.

          Have I ever said his was a victim? This feels like PROJECTION again! 🙂

          His brother MAY have talked him into this, but he’s an adult and made the choice to join in.

          • @Todd…..sorry…..I did not mean to imply that you thought this kid was a victim…..far from it as you never said that. That was my synopsis. I have these visions of his mother ranting and waving arms saying that they should have sent him to GITMO. Ranting about why did they shoot him…..etc etc…..talking about the son that is dead. I am fed up with the media trying to portray this family as being victimized. They were not.

            And, since I have the podium………(and Todd did NOT say or imply this either)……this bull dookey about “self radicalization” is…well…bull dookey. This is a MSM bullet point to down play radical Islam. I do not and will not buy into it at all.

            • Ok Colonel,
              I wasn’t sure if I was reading too much into that…you know how sensitive us liberals are!!

              For the “self radicalization,” I think that can happen. There’s enough crazy stuff on radio, TV, websites, blogs… 😉

              But once you add “human contact”, it’s no longer “self radicalization.”

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Todd, I will apologize if I mistook you for someone else’s inquiry. When asked about this Misha person, there wasn’t ant credible info at the time, only blurb’s about the FBI wanting to talk to him. It turned out to be nothing, so who ever asked, has their answer.

        I would chalk this up to nerves/lack of experience/lack of training.

        I would disagree. I would like to know the real reason, which is unlikely. I did take 4 (that we know of) bullet wounds inside the boat (maybe). Many details are not to clear yet. Why was it reported that he shot himself in the neck? I reckon someday the truth will be told, I’ll be long dead and buried by then 🙂

        As a short note, it’s not always simple to kill a living animal, including humans. His position, laying with feet pointing toward incoming bullets, bullets that must travel through the front of a fiberglass boat hull, which is angled. They were lucky to him him at all considering his position and bullets fired (I’m guessing 5.56mm). I wouldn’t have wasted the ammo from the cops position. Yes, that qualifies as lack of training, but not the kind that caused the shooting to happen to begin with. I will stand by what I believe, they wanted him just as dead as the cops wanted Chris Dorner dead. They just failed in this case.

  21. Just A Citizen says:

    A thought from yesterday!

    For more than a century the various Altruistic political movements have used jealousy, coveting, and envy to create rage against the “rich”. They have worked hard to create a sense of entitlement among the “lower class”.

    Much of this can be seen in the many responses to recent publication of reports on the amount of off shore wealth held in the world.

    Yet isn’t the protection of their wealth the simply rational response to the venomous atmosphere created by the very same people howling like a pack of Hyenas?

    I see comments about how the “rich” used to be “patriotic” and support this country. It is their “duty” etc, etc. It never seems to occur to any that if you constantly denigrate people and try to set their fellow citizens against them, that someday they will simply Go Galt.

    They claim this is why Hispanics vote Democrat but fail to see that the same reasoning applies to why the “wealthy” are increasingly taking action to protect their own.

    Since Charlie likes to react to any Rand reference, let me point out that Rands’ heroes and villains were distinguished by their ability and desire to be “producers” vs. “consumers”, it was not about rich and poor.

    • JAC….you said “Yet isn’t the protection of their wealth the simply rational response to the venomous atmosphere created by the very same people howling like a pack of Hyenas?”

      The answer is yes.

  22. To LOI, et al:

    Boston….was not martial law. Not by definition nor by proxy. First, the people of Boston were their own worse enemy. I have looked at various “references” and found the most ridiculous theories, inaccurate reporting, and innuendo. No one was ordered to stay inside, that I have found. I saw examples of requests by the mayor and police suggestions that were supposedly designed to help law enforcement. I saw where there were some National Guard units assigned to help police enforcement under the command of civilian authority. I saw no military command anywhere. I saw people hiding in their homes instead of protecting their own property. They did this by their own fears and design. I did NOT see police arresting people for looking out of their windows or doors nor standing on their porches or even being outside. I am unaware of the police kicking in doors or searching homes without permission. I am unaware of people not being allowed to go to work or to leave and return to their homes. I am not aware of habeus corpus being suspended or rights being denied.

    I am aware that the people of Boston chose to abide by certain requests by the mayor and police. I saw the people of Boston allowing searches of their personal property and not demanding their rights but surrendering their rights. That was their choice……hardly an imposition of martial law directly or by proxy.

    Now, LOI….if you wish to say that the people of Boston allowed the defacto imposition of martial law ( by proxy ), then I will agree with the bastardized definition.

    • Colonel,

      Thank you for a thoughtful reply. I still lean towards what I call defacto martial law and think it was confined to regions of Boston. I suspect the lockdown prevented the media from filming, but will also say controlling what the news was showing would not be out of line. Kinda tough sneaking up on a back door if it’s live at five. What little I have seen is what ordinary people have posted. It should be questioned/doubted, but also considered that maybe our government hasn’t been truthful and forthcoming with info…But I would not like to have been in the house across this street.
      Evict me from my home by force-of-arms.
      Search me.
      Order me from my home,” raise your hands,”run”!

      “Now, LOI….if you wish to say that the people of Boston allowed the defacto imposition of martial law ( by proxy ), then I will agree with the bastardized definition.”

      I can respect that. I think more it was called “shelter-in-place” but implemented as martial law. I do agree it was proper. My only points of contention is the PC name and the implementation. The video above does not show what I would call polite, professional behavior. The people that did not resemble their suspect should have been treated like the people paying them, not subjects….

      • Fair enough….and if the video is a general depiction of what went on, then I can agree it was way over the top. If, in general, you had doors being kicked in and searches done without reason or warrant…then you had a police state environment. But, one tiger does not make a jungle.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13

          Yes, but it is the presence of the jungle that allows the tiger to thrive and multiply.

          Perhaps we need to reduce the amount of jungle!

          And before I forget, a hearty good morning to you Sir!

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Very effective, BUT………………….. 🙂

      Continue the story …………………….. They took up arms against the Govt and LOST.

      That is because they were out gunned. Just as our civilians are outgunned. Not outnumbered but out gunned. We need tanks and rockets and ………………….. 😉

      • True that – but it will make people think twice about history. I’m guessing this is the first of many that will pop up showing other despots or err, um, governments that went after citizens’ guns.

      • “I got a very disturbing look when I asked the guy at the table who the Sheriff was planning to go to war against. It was a cold and clear look………………..ME.”

        I wonder why he gave you that look? You didn’t have one of those, “mines bigger” moments and shame him? List all the obsolete ordnance that might be laying around that would punch holes through their “riot truck”? Wouldn’t want a tank anyway, lousy fuel mileage….

      • JAC,
        You’re right – the billboard is missing leading. They didn’t give up their guns, they lost a war.

        That might be a lesson for those who think they’re going to fight the government to keep their guns. That’s the best way to lose your right to have a gun.

        • Bottom Line says:

          ” …lose your right… ”

          Rights are inalienable.

          *sigh*

          • Bottom Line,
            I think you have that backwards. If I had said “The government gives you the right to guns,” your comment would make sense.

            But the billboard and my comment are about the government taking away your right to guns.

            If you don’t think the government can take away this right, just wait until they ban guns.

            Will you still just *sigh* after that?

            • Bottom Line says:

              Inalienable means unable to be taken or given, nontransferable. inherent, entailed, inviolable, natural, nonnegotiable, nontransferable, sacrosanct, unassailable.

              You cannot lose rights. They can only be exercised, respected or violated. If someone takes your gun without permission, they didn’t take away your right to defense…they stole your property.

              They can ban guns on paper all they want, but they still have to round them up. It’d be quite a challenge.

              Americans want guns, thus Americans have and will have guns. There are a lot of guns in America…enough to supply China’s army. And a lot of people willing to use them. Supply is currently unable to keep up with demand. Anyone that wants to take them will start a war, and will likely lose.

              Nope. A roundup ain’t gonna happen.

          • Bottom Line,
            One more thing – who says the right to own a gun is inalienable?

            • Bottom Line says:

              The right to defense is a right to a means or action. It is unrestricted, …by any means necessary.

              If you have to use a fist, knife, rock, bat, gun, bow, grenade, flame-thrower, tank, nuke, etc. etc… it is your right to do so.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Todd, In the history of this nation, being outnumbered and/or outgunned never kept the fighting men of this country fighting on and in many, many cases, winning. Only cowards quit in the face of evil. Most of us would rather perish than have our “rights” denied us. That sir, is the American way.

          • Gman,
            Ok – You’re right about that part.

            But the billboard is still misleading…

    • I liked this story because people are finding it’s message offensive, gun control should offend people. It is only when the apathetic are offended that they wake up and fight for their rights.

      Am partial American native, great grandmother was a native Iraquis, and I think people need to be reminded what big government is capable of when it is allowed to pass laws unchecked.

  23. Bottom Line says:

  24. Despite two separate warnings to the FBI and the CIA from Russia in 2011, the FBI closed out their file on Tamerlan Tsarnaev after interviewing him and his family, and deciding he posed no risk. The FBI also added Tamerlan’s name to their TECS database. It alerted the Joint Terrorism Task Force when Tsarnaev left America for a six-month trip to Russia in January 2012. Yet in a prime example of bureaucratic ineptitude, officials differed on who received the alert, with one telling Reuters it went to the FBI’s lead investigator in the Boston bombing, while another said the Customs and Border Protection officer assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force would have received it. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano added to the folly, telling Congress last Tuesday that the database notification expired while Tamerlan was still abroad.

    Furthermore, it turns out the brothers’ mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, was also on the Terror Identities Datamart Environment watch list. In a 2011 call taped by the Russians, Tamerlan Tsarnaev “vaguely discussed” jihad with his mother. Zubeidat Tsarnaeva also spoke with a man under FBI investigation located in the Caucasus region of Russia. Yet officials insist that no plot against the United States was discussed.

    This is completely unsurprising. The purge of Islamic terrorist references from FBI training manuals, which deleted terms such as “al Qaeda,” “Muslim Brotherhood,” and “jihad,” even as it insists that “training must emphasize that no investigative or intelligence collection activity may be based solely on race, ethnicity, national origin, or religious affiliation” has undoubtedly hamstrung that agency’s ability to connect the dots. Moreover, media is more than willing to see this intentionally-promoted generic viewpoint.

  25. Bottom Line says:

    I haven’t taken the necessary time to look deeper into the events surrounding the bombing.

    But upon further preliminary examination of all the videos on Youtube pointing out discrepancies and such surrounding the bombings, and subsequent lock-down, I am going to have to support G’s speculation that it is indeed likely a false flag and probably a beta test for a police state.

    What are they planning for, I wonder. Economic collapse, chaos, etc?

    • “You cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.”

      • Bottom Line says:

        Exactly.

        Nor can you reason with people that are either unable or refuse…which is why you will always believe what you want or are told, rather than questioning things and applying reason.

        The reality is that the people have been consistently lied to on numerous occasions, to the point where the word of the media and government have little to no legitimacy.

        Consequently, there are people out there everywhere that gather as much information as they can and apply inductive and deductive reasoning, the scientific method, etc to determine truth for themselves. They analyze the details that normally go unnoticed by mindless idiots, note correlations and inconsistencies, and they question things.

        When they do, they find truths via simple logic, that people like yourself will never see because you are too busy looking at your colon.

        I understand how much easier it is to rationalize things as being what you want them to be. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

        Good luck, Todd.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          🙂

        • Bottom Line,

          apply inductive and deductive reasoning, the scientific method,

          But you admitted to not doing any of that. Just a quick review and it’s a False Flag.

          More intellectual laziness.

          • Bottom Line says:

            ” But upon further preliminary examination of all the videos on Youtube pointing out discrepancies and such surrounding the bombings, and subsequent lock-down,..”

            There are a lot of discrepancies that are starting to come to light as people are taking notice and questioning things, then putting them on youtube.

            It took all of about a half an hour of reviewing the information to come up with a list of questions that point to a correlation with an obvious pattern.

            It doesn’t take a genius to see it.

            X happens – you are told it is Y…but if you pay attention, you can see that it isn’t Y, and looks more like X.

            …like this elephant;

  26. Pentagon Taps Anti-Christian Extremist for Religious Tolerance Policy

    by Ken Klukowski 28 Apr 2013 979 post a comment View Discussion
    “Today, we face incredibly well-funded gangs of fundamentalist Christian monsters who terrorize their fellow Americans by forcing their weaponized and twisted version of Christianity upon their helpless subordinates in our nation’s armed forces.”

    Those words were recently written by Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), in a column he wrote for the Huffington Post. Weinstein will be a consultant to the Pentagon to develop new policies on religious tolerance, including a policy for court-martialing military chaplains who share the Christian Gospel during spiritual counseling of American troops.

    Weinstein decries what he calls the “virulent religious oppression” perpetrated by conservative Christians, whom he refers to as “monstrosities” and “pitiable unconstitutional carpetbaggers,” comparing them to “bigots” in the Deep South during the civil rights era.

    He cites Dr. James Dobson—the famous Christian founder of Focus on the Family—as “illustrating the extremist, militant nature of these virulently homophobic organizations’ rhetorically-charged propaganda.” Regarding those who teach orthodox Christian beliefs from the Bible, Weinstein concludes, “Let’s call these ignoble actions what they are: the senseless and cowardly squallings of human monsters.”

    Weinstein then endorses the ultra-left Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who publishes a list of “hate groups.” Alongside truly deplorable organizations like the KKK, the SPLC’s list includes a host of traditional Christian organizations (for their support of traditional marriage) and Tea Party organizations (for supporting limited government). Weinstein says SPLC correctly labels them all as “hate groups.”

    Floyd Lee Corkins—the first person ever convicted of domestic terrorism in federal court under the laws of Washington, D.C.—told the FBI that he chose his intended shooting spree targets from the SPLC website’s map. Corkins was arrested at the offices of the Family Research Council (FRC) after shooting a security guard in August 2012. His court documents state that Corkins intended to kill as many people as possible.

    Weinstein also supports Lt. Col. Jack Rich, the Army officer who wrote to subordinate officers that soldiers who hold traditional Christian beliefs agreeing with organizations on SPLC’s “hate group” list are incompatible with “Army values” and should be carefully watched and excluded from military service.

    According to Weinstein, “We should as a nation effusively applaud Lt. Col. Rich.” He adds that the nation should “venture further” than Rich’s recommendations, saying, “We MUST vigorously support the continuing efforts to expose pathologically anti-gay, Islamaphobic, and rabidly intolerant agitators for what they are: die-hard enemies of the United States Constitution. Monsters, one and all. To do anything less would be to roll out a red carpet to those who would usher in a blood-drenched, draconian era of persecutions, nationalistic militarism, and superstitious theocracy.”

    Many media outlets are silent on this disturbing new alliance between fanatical secularists and leaders in the Pentagon appointed by President Barack Obama and Secretary Chuck Hagel, under which the U.S. military would officially consult with someone with such foaming-at-the-mouth passionate hostility toward traditional Christians, including Evangelicals and devout Catholics. The military—America’s most heroic and noble institution—includes countless people of faith, and this represents a radical departure from the U.S. military’s warm embrace of people of faith in its ranks.

    Yet the little coverage this story is getting is positive, such as this Washington Post column that somehow manages not to carry any of these frightening quotes from Weinstein and instead actually endorses the Pentagon’s meeting with him. Sally Quinn’s Post column also approvingly quotes MRFF Advisory Board member Larry Wilkerson as saying, “Sexual assault and proselytizing, according to Wilkerson, ‘are absolutely destructive of the bonds that keep soldiers together.’”

    Did you get that? They say having someone share the Christian gospel with you is akin to being raped. Weinstein makes sure there are no doubts, being quoted by the Post as adding, “This is a national security threat. What is happening [aside from sexual assault] is spiritual rape. And what the Pentagon needs is to understand is that it is sedition and treason. It should be punished.”

    Another MRFF Advisory Board member, Ambassador Joe Wilson (the far-left husband of CIA employee Valerie Plame from the Iraq War’s yellow-cake uranium scandal a decade ago), said a military chaplain “is to minister to spiritual needs. You don’t proselytize. It’s a workplace violation.”

    In other words, it should be the official policy of the United States to decree what a human being’s spiritual needs are, and punish for violations a military officer who is an ordained clergyman who attempts to share his own personal faith with another service member when discussing religious matters. You cannot imagine such a thing ever happening under any previous president.

    Weinstein goes on:

    If these fundamentalist Christian monsters of human degradation … and tyranny cannot broker or barter your acceptance of their putrid theology, then they crave for your universal silence in the face of their rapacious reign of theocratic terror. Indeed, they ceaselessly lust, ache, and pine for you to do absolutely nothing to thwart their oppression. Comply, my friends, and you become as monstrously savage as are they. I beg you, do not feed these hideous monsters with your stoic lethargy, callousness and neutrality. Do not lubricate the path of their racism, bigotry, and prejudice. Doing so directly threatens the national security of our beautiful nation.

    God help us now when someone with such visceral hatred of conservative Christians—literally tens of millions of Americans—who says sharing this gospel is “spiritual rape” is helping develop policies for how to deal with Christians in the military.

    Weinstein says those guilty of this “treason” must be “punished.” Under federal law, the penalty for treason is death. And the Obama administration is sitting down to talk with this man to craft new policies for “religious tolerance” in our military.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/28/Pentagon-Consults-Extremist-Who-Calls-Christians-Monsters-and-Enemies-of-the-Constitution-to-Develop-Religious-Tolerance-Policy

    • Just A Citizen says:

      I wonder why Joe Wilson is portrayed as the “far left huband………….”.

      When did Mr. Wilson become a “FAR LEFTY”???

      Is it because he was willing to stand against the Bush administration’s efforts to twist the facts to their advantage?

    • Mickey Weinstein was a proud Air Force Academy graduate from wayback. I spoke to him number of years ago, when he was starting to go over the edge.

      Mickey’s son also went to the Academy in the early ’00’s. You can probably guess that he is Jewish. This whole thing started over the nonsense at the Academy regarding non-Christians. For those who forget, there was the “Heathen” flight. This was composed of cadets who were Jewish, Muslim or Atheist. They did not self-segregate but were assigned there by upper classmen with the tacit approval of Academy staff who apparently saw nothing wrong with it. Then there were the signs in the locker room about the football team being “Jesus” team. This nonsense went on for awfully long time. The appeal to the Academy staff to deal with it went nowhere so, Mickey went public. There was the appropriate outrage, heads rolled, hearings were held, speeches were made and ……NOTHING CHANGED. That’s when Mickey started really losing it. So he began a crusade which was finally effective enough to have an area set aside at Colorado Springs for Wiccans to meet and worship!.

      My involvement with him goes back to my son’s second deployment to the sandbox. At Christmas time there was a full court press at his base for the Holiday. The whole nine yards, from Santa to the Creche. Now, of course, Hanuka was at the same time. The Lt. Col. ( female no less!) in charge actively discouraged any recognition of that Holiday. That’s when my son asked me to supply him with a menorah and other decorations. Now, we re Catholic and he is product of the Catholic education system but I can’t tell you how proud I was of him at that moment. My son apparently shot Mickey an E-mail and I followed up on it. The names were changed to protect the innocent but the point was made, forcefully.

      I cannot imagine Hap Arnold or Curt LeMay condoning this type of nonsense nor the twenty some DI”s at Lackland either under indictment or convicted of trainee abuse. I actually think that had the Air Force acted responsibly the first time out, Mickey, would have been happy and gone away. Since he was standing alone, he became the lightning rod that troops from all the services contacted. I personally think he has gone too far but then again, I am not a Jew and there is just so much that one can take.

  27. I like this one. This is when I started paying attention and checking on issues. Before, I just accepted the MSM narrative.

    http://americadoneright.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/debunking-progressive-myths-where-were-all-the-conservatives-when-bush-was-spending/

  28. Texas shuns Federal Aid
    By Maggie Fox, Senior Writer, NBC News

    The Red Cross, the Salvation Army, the Knights of Columbus and the Veterans of Foreign Wars are all in West, Texas, to help victims of this month’s fertilizer explosion. They’ve collected tens of thousands of dollars, piles of clothes, toys and food.
    It’s been almost chaotic, with volunteers piling in and shelters popping up everywhere. But instead of clamoring for the aid, many of the 3,000 or so residents of this small, central Texas town are instead fighting to help one another. That’s just as well in Texas, where the official government line is self-sufficiency.
    “Right after the explosion happened that evening, there were shelters opened up all over the place,” said Ryan Adams, Grand Knight of the Knights of Columbus Council in West. “They originally evacuated the entire town. But those shelters were empty because we all help one another in our community. Most of the people that are displaced from their homes, being such a small, tight-knit community, they are staying with family. They are staying with friends.”
    While the help is pouring in, it’s still not entirely clear to anyone who’s in need, what, precisely, they do need or where the money should go first. Coordinating all that is still a work in progress. The April 17 explosion at West Fertilizer killed 15 people and injured as many as 180. Investigators are still trying to figure out what caused it, but the blast at the 10-acre plant left a crater 10 feet deep and more than 90 feet across, destroyed two schools, a nursing home and a nearby apartment building and shook homes 50 miles away.

    Most of those killed were volunteer firefighters rushing to help put out the fire that preceded the explosion, while many of the injured were elderly residents of a nearby nursing home who couldn’t be moved quickly when the fire started.
    Nurse Tammy Adams says she still has blood in her car from patients she ferried from the nursing home to a community center, where ambulances picked them up and took them to nearby hospitals. It all happened so quickly, Adams didn’t have a chance to take note of who went where. “I don’t know what happened to any of them,” Adams said in a telephone interview.

    While victims are turning to their friends and relatives, by most accounts, they are not looking to the government for help – something citizens of this deeply conservative area scorn. And that’s just as well, because there’s not much help on offer – especially when it comes to medical care.
    “I haven’t had any calls requesting assistance,” said Eva Cruz Hamby, who heads health services for McLennan County. In Texas, the counties pick up indigent health care. If the calls do start coming in, the available money won’t go very far. “There is a limit of $30,000 per fiscal year. That is not much care,” Hamby added.

    Nearly a quarter of the population of Texas lacks any health insurance. That means many of the 160 or more people treated at area hospitals will end up getting charities to pay for their care. Most of the nursing home residents are almost certain to have been covered by Medicare, the federal health insurance plan for the elderly.

    Hospitals will likely pick up a big part of the tab for those they have treated. Providence Health Center in nearby Waco treated 87 of the injured, 21 of them who were admitted as patients. Spokeswoman Heather Beck says all have since been discharged. They treated many minor burns, cuts, broken bones and head injuries. At least one seriously ill patient had respiratory distress from breathing in caustic ammonia fumes.

    Beck won’t comment on how patients will pay their bills. Nor would other hospitals that treated patients from the explosion, including the not-for-profit Scott & White Healthcare system of hospitals. “Providence does do charitable care all the time,” Beck said, adding that the hospital provided about $35 million worth of charity care last year.
    Eva de Luna of the Center for Public Policy Priorities, which is pressing for more government regulation in Texas, says 31 percent of McLennan County’s residents are poor and uninsured. “This is what happens when you have a low taxes, low government, regulate-yourself type of environment,” she said. “Food stamps and Medicaid are pretty much it in Texas.”
    Some help has also arrived for victims in the form of financial donations from people around the country.
    “It has been a terrific outpouring,” said a spokesman for State National Bank, one of two banks in West collecting donations. The spokesman, who declined to give his name, said tens of thousands of dollars had been donated. “It is unbelievable, the support,” he said.

    Charles Nemec, president of PointWest Bank, agrees. “I have got all I can handle,” he said. “We have handed out a lot of money.” He won’t say precisely how much, but says it’s “thousands”. The Knights of Columbus has collected $100,000, but all the aid groups agree the cash won’t go too far as people seek to rebuild homes that may have to be razed and started from scratch.

    ‘Everybody is family here’
    Town officials are planning to meet with the various charitable organizations this week to work out a way to distribute the aid fairly, without duplicating efforts, Ryan Adams of Knights of Columbus says.
    “There were a lot of people that the only clothes they had were clothes on their back,” Adams said. “Now that we have made it through that first wave of immediate need, we as a council are working with the mayor’s office to take inventory of the need.” Knights of Columbus is still accepting donations online.
    Like so many other residents of West, Adams, the nurse, is both victim and volunteer, striving to help those even worse off than her.
    She lost her job when the West Rest Haven Nursing Home was damaged beyond immediate repair. “We all have to find work,” she said. “I looked at three places today for a job.”

    Yet Adams is collecting donations from friends and family for her homeless neighbors. “I have toothpaste, toothbrushes, clothes, water. I gave out bicycles to kids,” she said. “That’s how we work. Everybody is family here.”

  29. Just A Citizen says:
  30. ‘Beach week’ draws black crowd – and violence
    1 weekend: 3 shootings, 3 stabbings, 3 robberies

    Colin Flaherty is an award-winning reporter and author of “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return of racial violence to America and how the media ignore it.”
    BeachWeek

    (Editor’s note: Colin Flaherty has done more reporting than any other journalist on what appears to be a nationwide trend of skyrocketing black-on-white crime, violence and abuse. WND features these reports to counterbalance the virtual blackout by the rest of the media due to their concerns that reporting such incidents would be inflammatory or even racist. WND considers it racist not to report racial abuse solely because of the skin color of the perpetrators or victims.)

    Reporters with all the local media had trouble describing what happened over the weekend when 40,000 black people descended on Virginia Beach for a party.

    Their audiences, however, did not.

    Daniel Johnson was one of dozens of people who had no trouble talking about the lawbreakers and the widespread chaos, danger, thefts, violence and lawlessness they brought to Virginia Beach as part of College Beach Week 2013; a time when black students could “blow off some steam” before final exams.

    “Because it was a group of young black college people everyone is scared to say anything for fear of being called a racist,” he said in a post to a Virginian-Pilot news story. “It is what it is – these people come to the Beach and do everything in there [sic] power to intimidate the local and visiting White people at the Beach – rude – disrespectful – dirty and violent – They come here and treat our beach like a toilet On Saturday afternoon I went to the Harris Teeter and a LARGE group of young black visitors were in the parking lot drinking and playing loud music – intimidating locals – I called the police and even though 2 cop cars drove by nothing was done!”

    Police reported 300 emergency calls to 911 Saturday night involving at least three shootings, three stabbings and three robberies. That they know of. All during a four-hour period. People in Virginia Beach are furious and are taking to Facebook and the local news sites to have their say.

    Conscious of the paper’s history of deleting comments that refer to race, Mark Morrell backed up Daniel Johnson:

    “PSA: There were no persons of any other race on the videos perpetrating those crimes. None. Not stealing the bikes, or starting the brawls, or any other illegal, crazy action. Have I mentioned any race at all? Nope!!! Because you know exactly what I’m talking about, I most certainly don’t have to. You can identify me all you want, I’m not scared, and I don’t hide behind my screen – or my newspaper. There is an elephant in the room, Pilot. WHATCHAGONNADOOOOO ABOUT IT???”

    The “College Beach Weekend 2013″ party was organized by several black promoters for black fraternity members at several area colleges. Their invitations can be seen at http://beachweekva.com. Their tweets cam be followed at #beachweekend.

    The family of Anas Harmache owns a restaurant in Virginia Beach. He posted a video on his Facebook page that captured some of black mob violence.

    “These guys destroyed my family’s store, beat a kid senseless and put my dad’s life in danger,” said Harmache. “When I called the cops not one person showed up.”

    The video showed dozens of black people fighting, taunting and harrassing people outside the restaurant.

    Laurette LaLiberte, also on Facebook, said this kind of racial violence is becoming a regular feature of life in Virgina Beach: “My son was jumped a few months ago … 6 guys … right down the block from [this video]. … Robbed him and they kept kicking and beating him even after he was unconscious … he was in the hospital a week and had hemorrhaging on his brain … they haven’t caught those punks either.”

    On Fox43 news, a black woman said fighting and lawlessness at Beach Week is nothing to worry about.

    “I think it’s still fun,” said Kharizma Jackson. “It happens when you get a lot of people together this stuff happens everywhere you go. It’s like that.”

    “It was just so crazy,” said business owner Billy Baldwin to the local ABC affiliate. “We actually had a fight break out in front of my business at Sandbar that the crowd busted in and broke my front window. So that’s a thousand dollars per window.”

    The Virginia Beach racial violence is part of a pattern of more than 500 episodes of black mob violence documented in “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return of racial violence and how the media ignore it.”
    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/beach-week-draws-black-crowd-and-violence/#mVUm3Q31Vfp5S4R1.99

    • ” these people ” … there you go again …

      because lord knows, when “those other people (the white ones)” meet up for spring break, there’s no violence or anything else negative … it’s Kumbaya!

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Charlie, The political correctness is useless here. The facts are quite simple. When large numbers of blacks get together, there is a far greater chance of violence than that of any other race. Would you like me to start posting video’s? It’s really a shame, but if people keep denying the facts, things will never change. When people, all of us, address these issues, then maybe they can change, crying racist fixes nothing 😉

  31. gmanfortruth says:

    My true hope in life right now, is that all my prepping only saves me money down the road and is never needed to survive. This is one area that I’m comfy in, along with food and location. http://www.infowars.com/backlog-on-gun-orders-hits-2-million/

  32. gmanfortruth says:

    Good video news report about the Boston events. Like I said said if it looks like a duck, it’s a duck. This is what martial law looks like in America. http://beforeitsnews.com/books/2013/04/what-really-happened-the-boston-facts-2458112.html

  33. The cargo plane that crashed at Bagram Airfield on Monday..of the 7 killed, 1 guy lived in my city, 3 lived within 10 minutes and 1 within an hour. I didn’t know any of the guys but I know lots of people who know them. RIP fellas. Check out this crash..yikes!
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22121208/horrifying-video-shows-deadly-bagram-airfield-crash

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Ouch! That was horrible.

    • Wow Anita,
      That’s an amazingly scary video – and a very sad event.

    • Low wing stall……I would be willing to bet that the investigation will show over loading.

      • I’ve heard speculation that the load shifted on take off, pushing weight to the tail. The plane was loaded with vehicles and other equipment.

        • Being an experienced pilot, the first thing that caught my attention was the angle of climb indicating weight shift or improper loading. Weight and balance is VERY critical, especially on takeoff with full fuel. The next thing that caught my attention was the buffeting on the low wing. Once the low wing stalls at that altitude, recovery is impossible. The pilot reacted properly by leveling the plane but that put it into a flat stall and no room to lower the nose to gain speed. It appears to be a stall on takeoff and the angle indicates one of two things….improper loading OR dramatic weight shift to the tail. Either way, it was a doomed flight. Horrible

          • Even having no pilot experience 🙂 , the first thing I noticed was – with the low camera angle – you see way too much of the bottom of that plane. It looks like a plane that is flying overhead and I’m looking straight up at it. Definitely too steep of a climb.

            It almost looks like a kite going up, fluttering in the wind, and then rolling over and diving down…

  34. gmanfortruth says:

    It seems that the DHS was just too busy chasing the imaginary right wing extremist’s that the SPLC told them about, instead of doing their job! Or, maybe they needed this attack to continue to destroy the rights of the people, you be the judge. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2317493/Saudi-official-Kingdom-warned-United-States-IN-WRITING-Boston-Bomber-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-2012-rejected-application-entry-visa-visit-Mecca-2011.html

  35. Interesting question and answer speech yesterday from the POTUSon his ACA.

    1) Yes, Mr. Obama, you are correct. You forced the insurance to carry children to age 26. Hip Hip Hooray…………oh, by the way, you forgot to mention that the premium increases that went with it.

    2) Yes. Mr. Obama, the donut hole with the elderly was closed. Great JOB SIR…..oh, you forgot the added premium that with that as well.

    3) Yes. Mr. Obama, insurance companies cannot drop you from coverage because you got sick……What’s that? Oh yes, you forgot to mention the increased premiums that go with that.

    4) Quite correct, Mr.Obama, you can carryover pre-exisiting conditions to another insurance carrier……What a coup………but you forgot to mention the increased premiums for that.

    5) You surprised me in that you did not mention the fact that you can keep your doctors of choice and your insurance of choice. But you really could not mention that because in the implementation of that,it did not work out in reality. You cannot keep your doctor in the majority of the cases…..and you certainly cannot keep your current insurance when you leave. Nothing was changed in COBRA.

    6) You do not understand why States are fighting your implementation of the ACA? You laughed at the fact that the Federal Government is going to do what the states will not and that it will be implemented anyway? You forgot to mention that the states that have chosen this route because implementation of the ACA will be cost prohibitive without raising taxes to the extreme. So the states have said that they are going to balance their budgets and be fiscally responsible.

    7) You forgot to mention that, as it stands now, 65% of the small business owners surveyed said it will be cheaper to pay your ransom that to continue with their own health insurance.

    8) You conveniently forgot to mention that Federal employees…all of them except military, are exempt from the ACA.

    9) You forgot to mention that in specific enclaves…NANCY PELOSI, to name one…..that the business owners have been exempted from the ACA.

    10) You left out that the promise made to the military of health care for their 20+ years of service has been rescinded and that TriCare premiums to the military retirees has increased over 300% while the Federal Employees health care is……what is it called…….entitled?

    11) You forgot to mention that the average premium increase in 2012 was 39% with some premium increases tripled. NOTHING HAS GONE DOWN.

    12) You forgot to mention that medicare/medicaid doctors are dropping out of the system like flies on horse shit and that many doctors are not taking new patients on medicare or medicaid. They cannot afford it.

    Time prevents me from continuing……..but I have an idea on how to fix the ACA and you can do it with the stroke of a pen…….do not exempt ANYONE from the ACA. EVERYBODY including you, Mr. President, must take this insurance…..the Senate, Congress,and all Federal employees. I promise you, it will be fixed in one day.

  36. One other thing, Mr. President…………………………………………GITMO………Guantanamo….you know, that little island off the coast of Florida…..the one with the country club for Jihadists? Why are you blaming Republican obstructionism on this? Look over your shoulder and see the big red flag fluttering to the ground……..that is the red flag of BULLSHIT, sir.

    YOU are the COMMANDER IN CHIEF…….it is a military base. YOU are the boss. The JEFE….the Big Cheese……the HMFIC. You can close this base without consent from Congress……so…………………WHY DON’T YOU DO IT, oh omnipotent one……Just be like NIKE and DO IT. The stroke of a pen today closes GITMO forever tomorrow.

  37. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    I agree, for the most part: “Reason can overcome irrational thought, but only if they’re willing to listen to reason. If someone doesn’t want to listen to reason, reason cannot overcome their irrational thoughts.”

    My only caveat is that “willing” and “wanting to listen” are not necessarily insurmountable. Most great debates begin with one or more parties “anchored” in their view. Sometimes it take much discussion and time to change a mind.

    So your very explanation proves my point that the saying is stupid.

    Which of course means I don’t need examples of something that is entirely different in nature, than indicated by the phrase.

    I almost forgot. Regarding my comment to you about Charlie’s response. It still makes no sense. Your explanation didn’t address his attempt to link “black and white” to my disagreement with this phrase.

    • JAC,
      “anchored” in their view is not the same as not reasoned into, so it still stands! 😛

      So your very explanation proves my point that the saying is stupid.

      Does not! 😛

      Your explanation didn’t address his attempt to link “black and white” to my disagreement with this phrase.

      You’re sticking too your standard: “Reason can in fact be used to overcome the irrational.”

      If you believe this to be true, how come you haven’t overcome all the irrational thought here?

      PS – you really should checkout my exhibits!

  38. Just A Citizen says:

    Interesting statement in the “purpose” of the recently failed Senate gun legislation.

    “To ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the national instant criminal background check system and require a background check for every firearm sale, and for other purposes.”

    Boy, those last FOUR words sure do look kind a’ open ended!!!

  39. Just A Citizen says:

    To My SCANDINAVIAN Cousins.

    That being all of you from the “old northland” who stop in to visit each day.

    The “socialists” within the USA like to use the Scandinavian countries as examples of “successful” socialized economies.

    I for one am opposed to such systems here in the USA. We are not the same, even if we share some ancestry.

    But I am curious as to what YOU think about YOUR systems of Govt and Economy. Are you truly the “happiest” people in the world? Do you “love” your systems? Are they truly “socialism” or are they actually trending towards more “capitalistic”?

    Perhaps ya’ll will get some additional American tourist dollars now that the History Channel in the US has established VIKINGS as the hottest new show on cable.

  40. Just A Citizen says:

    A comment from someone at Huff Po that I thought would be interesting to discuss. I have tangled with this Kevin person before but think he is onto a concept here that might be positive. I say concept because I think his particulars are no different than what we have. But the general idea of private accounts with Federal assets wrapped into the mix is very interesting.

    Kevin Atlanta 7 hours ago ( 9:29 AM)
    3939 Fans
    Become a fan

    There are other options for these sorely abused resources owned by America and this position of utilizing Fannie & Freddie’s profits (to pay down the national debt) is yet another way this once great nation continues to rape Main Street.

    Americans would do well to roll Fannie & Freddie into the American Home Bank with each and every American Citizen having a share-hold in this Bank. Each of our Social Security Accounts could be each Citizens’ share-hold paying dividends and with a portion of the funds available for new home purchase, higher education, new business start ups and then watch America grow.

    The reason this won’t happen is because the FED would never allow competition on this level and this resource would allow us to tell the FED to go copulate with themselves with Ben Gay.

    America, Wake up.

    These dire problems present amazing opportunities to do things differently for America and in looking at the problems of this once great nation this single issue of American Home Ownership is exactly where the Banksters and Wall Street attacked Main Street with the endorsement of the ChainE/Dubya administration of traitors and torturers’ blessing. The Congress and Senate are complicit in this act of War against America and yet the Justice Department surrenders to the Bankster’s thievery and the Wall Street fraud.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      While Kevin see’s a small part of the big picture, he is right that it won’t get fixed. Our problem lies with who controls the money (Fed Res) instead of the people as intended. The nation committed suicide in 1913, it’s just a long slow choking. There is a massive currency war taking place in the world today. He who controls the money, controls the wealth.

  41. Here you go … one step closer to the nationalization of everything and the wonders of socialism … 🙂

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/01/why-the-american-working-class-has-little-to-celebrate-this-labor-day/

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Like anyone really pay any attention to MSLSD! I’m glad your riding in the super minority , BWahahaha! 🙂

    • Charlie, I would like to recommend a really good book for you to read, it is called “Time Will Run Back” by Henry Hazlitt, you can get it free in ebook form at http://mises.org/document/3060/Time-Will-Run-Back

      It does a really good job through a fiction story to dismantle the delusion of a socialist paradise.

      • I”ve already read one suggested book from SUFA (Atlas Shrugged (and Charlie and William F. Buckley, Jr. flogged themselves to get through it) … when you read George Bernard Shaw’s “The Intelligent Woman’s Guide To Socialism” … it’s not about a utopia (I was pulling chains). But make no mistake, we’ll veer more towards socialism and away from capitalism day by day … and please don’t tell me how this isn’t capitalism … because the version so many hear seem to beg for is NEVER going to exist without falling apart 5 minutes after it starts …

        • I don’t say this about many people but George Bernard Shaw was an evil son of a bitch. How you Charlie, with your social justice stand even mentions the man’s name without total disdain is just beyond comprehension!

          • V.H. WTF are you talking about? Evil? Maybe you’re throwing that word around here (I know it’s a SUFAism) a bit too easily?

          • He was most angered by what he perceived as the exploitation of the working class. An ardent socialist, Shaw wrote many brochures and speeches for the Fabian Society. He became an accomplished orator in the furtherance of its causes, which included gaining equal rights for men and women, alleviating abuses of the working class, rescinding private ownership of productive land, and promoting healthy lifestyles. For a short time he was active in local politics, serving on the London County Council.

            Oh, of course he’s “EVIL” … what was I thinking?

            • You really need to do a little more research Charlie-you will find out that people can say things that sound fine until you figure out just how they plan on achieving their goal. Implementation is king. Your hero Shaw believed that those who weren’t a benefit to his socialist society should be killed, gassed actually but that it should be done humanely.

              Here’s just one example in his own words-

              But go do some research of your own-there are many examples.

              • Sweet Jesus, VH … I thought so much more of you before this … it’s just funny. I wonder how they made that first video? He died in 1950 … maybe it was an actor? Maybe his words are being taken out of context? Maybe that WASN’T HIS VOICE.

                Oh, right, you got this from Fox! What was I thinking?

              • Just A Citizen says:

                V.H.

                Right in the money my dear. He was an ALTRUIST through and through.

                This proves again that those thinking themselves “Progressives” or who tout “Socialism” have no idea how evil the roots of those trees are.

              • Like I said Charlie-do your own research -or just sit there and tell me I have disappointed you-If you think I’m wrong- Prove it. But don’t sit there and just make up reasons not to believe what is right before your eyes.

        • Time Will Run Back does not make the case for a perfect capitalistic society, it does explain how capitalism is a better choice than socialism for those that wish to have any freedoms in life.

          Some of the material may be a bit indepth for you to grasp, but if you are willing to read it with an open mind you may learn something.

          • The Intelligent Woman’s Guide to Socialism and Capitalism … take a shot and read it, FLP, remember the Lord (i.e. He) says it’s the right thing to do.

    • Ahhhhhhhhhh Charlie……..you just have to stir the sediment. 🙂

  42. gmanfortruth says:

    Question for all of SUFA, and I mean all 🙂 Is this really needed? The link has lot’s of short videos, but the reality is simple, do we, the American people, really need this type of police action? Or should we say no and grow some courage and handle things the old fashioned way? http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2013/05/01/obamas-ss-is-here-now/

    • I think the DHS has overstayed it’s welcome. The DHS needs to be eliminated entirely. There is no situation in America that local law enforcement and/or the FBI could not handle. Not to mention the US Marshals, Secret Service, ATF, DEA, and I’m sure I’m missing some other alphabet law enforcement agency that we already have.

      • I agree. I never liked it from the start – it was an over-reaction.

        And the HOMELAND part has always seemed a little creepy to me…

  43. No surprise here…

    Pat Toomey: Background Checks Died Because GOP Didn’t Want To Help Obama

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/pat-toomey-background-checks_n_3192690.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

    • gmanfortruth says:

      I’m not surprised either. A couple things of note. We already have background checks (Sand Hook had nothing to do with these) Conservatives don’t like Obama. I don’t either, so I would not help him either.

      Why do we need “NEW” laws? Is a new law going to somehow keep guns from criminals? Are criminals and maniacs going to suddenly abide by this new law? If you want to really understand irrational thought, spend some time on Capital Hill. Your current view is nothing more than opinion, which isn’t very accurate in terms of reality. 🙂

    • Another Huffpo report…worse than Fox News.

      • And why duplicate a law…we have background checks…..just simply expand them to gun shows….the Repubs are against a national registration which this bill would have set up. I am against a national data base…read the bill AND its add one.

      • This proves nothing except your inability or unwillingness to do a little searching of your own.

  44. gmanfortruth says:

    True irrational thinking always shows up at the right time. As usual, it’s Democrats behind it. These people are mentally ill and need serious help http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/296679-dems-warn-climate-change-could-drive-women-to-transactional-sex

    • Since we have mentioned George Bernard Shaw-lets take note that they are still pushing the idea that we should be humane in our inhumanity. Like in this video-it would be best to take the shot-to help stop actual pain-but it’s up to you-you can do it which ever way makes YOU more comfortable.

  45. “Oh, right, you got this from Fox! What was I thinking?”

    Which quadruple confirms Todd’s line about some of SUFA being brainwashed … oy vey.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      It proves nothing except your inability or unwillingness to do a little searching of your own.

      Or is it because you share his views of selection?

  46. V.H. You’re clueless about George Bernard Shaw … that doesn’t mean you don’t agree with him, but your accusations are as dopey as those FOX (and Gman) make 2,000 x’s a day. I’m very surprised at you …

    • I don’t care if you’re surprised by me Charlie-what is sad is I’m not a bit surprised by you-we share our disappointment but surprise -no, your reaction was exactly what I expected. I know it is hard to have someone you believe in become the poster child of what you are against-but denial without even looking at the possibility that I am right-is just sad.

  47. @VH … You said: Like I said Charlie-do your own research -or just sit there and tell me I have disappointed you-If you think I’m wrong- Prove it. But don’t sit there and just make up reasons not to believe what is right before your eyes.

    I did my research in a college seminar on Shaw… you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. You are literally spewing the bullshit you hear on FOX … did you really think that was GBS on the video (doing the talking)?

    Do YOURSELF a favor and read The Intelligent Woman’s Guide To Socialism … what could it hurt? Or read any number of bios on the man (not one from the FOX vault if you want to actually LEARN something). Or read one of his 60 plays … and explain to me again how he wasn’t a humanitarian first … and if you’re too lazy to READ for YOURSELF, start with this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw

    But don’t trust it … READ SOMETHING …

    • Just A Citizen says:

      “The Intelligent Woman’s Guide To Socialism ”

      Talk about a title that defines OXYMORON.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        In case there are doubts…………………there is NOTHING intelligent about Socialism.

        There is noting MORAL or ETHICAL about Socialism.

    • Here Charlie-I will do a little more research for you:

      GEORGE BERNARD SHAW

      EXTERMINATION OF THE “SOCIALLY INCOMPATIBLE”

      “The notion that persons should be safe from extermination as long as they do not commit willful murder, or levy war against the Crown, or kidnap, or throw vitriol, is not only to limit social responsibility unnecessarily, and to privilege the large range of intolerable misconduct that lies outside them, but to divert attention from the essential justification for extermination, which is always incorrigible social incompatibility and nothing else.”

      Source: George Bernard Shaw, “On the Rocks” (1933), Preface.

      USE OF GAS CHAMBERS

      “We should find ourselves committed to killing a great many people whom we now leave living, and to leave living a great many people whom we at present kill. We should have to get rid of all ideas about capital punishment …

      A part of eugenic politics would finally land us in an extensive use of the lethal chamber. A great many people would have to be put out of existence simply because it wastes other people’s time to look after them.”

      Source: George Bernard Shaw, Lecture to the Eugenics Education Society, Reported in The Daily Express, March 4, 1910.

      KILLING THOSE “UNFIT TO LIVE”

      “The moment we face it frankly we are driven to the conclusion that the community has a right to put a price on the right to live in it … If people are fit to live, let them live under decent human conditions. If they are not fit to live, kill them in a decent human way. Is it any wonder that some of us are driven to prescribe the lethal chamber as the solution for the hard cases which are at present made the excuse for dragging all the other cases down to their level, and the only solution that will create a sense of full social responsibility in modern populations?”

      Source: George Bernard Shaw, Prefaces (London: Constable and Co., 1934), p. 296.

      http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Biology/Eugenics.htm

      • Oh, Christ … idiots … SUFA has finally been overrun … 🙂

      • Here, VH, you official ticket to the liars and/or idiots club (only you know for sure). The part you left out in bold …

        As with many of the topics that Shaw addressed, but particularly so in his examination of the “social purity” movement, he used irony, misdirection and satire to make his point.[73][83][84] At a meeting of the Eugenics Education Society of 3 March 1910 he suggested the need to use a “lethal chamber” to solve their problem. Shaw said: “We should find ourselves committed to killing a great many people whom we now leave living, and to leave living a great many people whom we at present kill. We should have to get rid of all ideas about capital punishment …” Shaw also called for the development of a “deadly” but “humane” gas for the purpose of killing, many at a time, those unfit to live.[85]

        • Charlie, do you have a quote and source of Shaw saying his comments were satire? Not just some commentator’s opinion.

          • Actually, FLP, it was the Lord who told me so. And I trust everything the lord thy God says. For HE is not only risen, HE knows his shit.

          • FLP-you must learn when to stop talking to Charlie about a subject-when it reaches a point where he is claiming that the words a man wrote and spoke over and over is nothing but sarcasm-and the fact that the organization and it’s members that Shaw supported made the same type of statements means nothing-the battle is lost and further conversation is useless. To Charlie, Shaw is an humanitarian and no amount of evidence will convince him otherwise. Hell, the man might be a humanitarian towards those he felt didn’t deserve to be killed. But when reading his words one might take into consideration that he was not talking about everyone. Just to those HE deemed qualified to live.To some, eugenics is just an innocent theory to make our society better. they seem quite able to ignore the horrors that have been committed in it’s name. Even the actual sterilizations that have happened in this country, not to mention the continuation of it’s goals through abortion.

  48. Just A Citizen says:

    In the beginning God created LIBERALS to advance the cause of Freedom among mankind. Then along came the Devil who created a new form using the same name.

    Not often we can point to a particular moment in time and claim, this is where the end started. From Wikipdeia…….while following the trail of the Fabian Socialists.

    “The Liberal welfare reforms (1906–1914[1]) were acts of social legislation passed by the British Liberal Party after the 1906 General Election. It has been argued that this legislation shows the emergence of the modern welfare state in the UK.[1] They shifted their outlook from a laissez-faire system to a more collectivist approach.[2] The reforms demonstrate the split that had emerged within liberalism, between modern liberalism and classical liberalism, and a change in direction for the Liberal Party from liberalism, in general, to a party of modern liberalism and larger, more active government[citation needed].

    The Liberal welfare reforms took place after a Royal Commission on how the country’s Poor Law provision should be altered. Two contrasting reports known as the Majority Report and the Minority Report were published, and as they differed so greatly the Liberals were able to ignore both reports and implement their own reforms. By implementing the reforms outside of the Poor Law the stigma attached to claiming relief was also removed.

    During the 1906 General Election campaign neither of the two major parties made poverty an important election issue and no promises were made to introduce welfare reforms. Despite this, the Liberals led by Henry Campbell-Bannerman won a landslide victory and began introducing wide ranging reforms as soon as they took office.[3]”

    I AM A RADICAL RIGHT WING LIBERAL

    • Just A Citizen says:

      More about Fabian Socialism.

      It was at this time that many of the future leaders of the Third World were exposed to Fabian thought, most notably India’s Jawaharlal Nehru, who subsequently framed economic policy for India on Fabian socialism lines. After independence from Britain, Nehru’s Fabian ideas committed India to an economy in which the state owned, operated and controlled means of production, in particular key heavy industrial sectors such as steel, telecommunications, transportation, electricity generation, mining and real estate development. Private activity, property rights and entrepreneurship were discouraged or regulated through permits, nationalization of economic activity and high taxes were encouraged, rationing, control of individual choices and Mahalanobis model considered by Nehru as a means to implement the Fabian Society version of socialism.[15][16][17] In addition to Nehru, several pre-independence leaders in colonial India such as Annie Besant – Nehru’s mentor and later a president of Indian National Congress – were members of the Fabian Society.[18]

      Obafemi Awolowo, who later became the premier of Nigeria’s defunct Western Region was also a Fabian member in the late 1940s. It was the Fabian ideology that Awolowo used to run the Western Region but was prevented from using it on a national level in Nigeria. It is less known that the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was an avid member of the Fabian Society in the early 1930s. Lee Kuan Yew, the first Prime Minister of Singapore, stated in his memoirs that his initial political philosophy was strongly influenced by the Fabian Society. However, he later altered his views, considering the Fabian ideal of socialism as impractical.[19] In 1993, Lee said:

      “They (Fabian Socialists) were going to create a just society for the British workers – the beginning of a welfare state, cheap council housing, free medicine and dental treatment, free spectacles, generous unemployment benefits. Of course, for students from the colonies, like Singapore and Malaya, it was a great attraction as the alternative to communism. We did not see until the 1970s that that was the beginning of big problems contributing to the inevitable decline of the British economy.”

      —Lee Kuan Yew interview with Lianhe Zaobao[19]

      In the Middle East, the theories of Fabian Society intellectual movement of early-20th-century Britain inspired the Ba’athist vision. The Middle East adaptation of Fabian socialism led the state to control big industry, transport, banks, internal and external trade. The state would direct the course of economic development, with the ultimate aim to provide a guaranteed minimum standard of living for all.[20] Michel Aflaq, widely considered as the founder of the Ba’athist movement, was a Fabian socialist. Aflaq’s ideas, with those of Salah al-Din al-Bitar and Zaki al-Arsuzi, came to fruition in the Arab world in the form of dictatorial regimes in Iraq and Syria.[21] Salāmah Mūsā of Egypt, another prominent champion of Arab Socialism, was a keen adherent of Fabian Society, and a member since 1909.[22]

      Among many current and former Fabian academics are the late political scientist Bernard Crick, the late economists Thomas Balogh and Nicholas Kaldor and the sociologist Peter Townsend.

    • YOU ARE A LUNATIC 🙂

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Perhaps.

        But then I would be a LUNATIC who owns guns and a truck. Which means I am MOBILE.

        • Which means you pay a silly amount more for gas than those driving a Prius.

          • Oh, God……..who the hell drives a Prius? Must be one of those global warming Eco nuts…….nothing much down here less than 5.7 liter engines and “doolies”………

            • I don’t but did once. They are pretty sweet. Had it up to 110 or so and the generator kicked in because of battery drain. Not sure but they might not make the ultimate sportscar! Another thing, the Prius was the first hybird that was economical. Even without tax deductions it would save you enough to make it a worthwhile choice and it’s price was decent. Downside, after five-seven years, batteries have to be replaced. Cost is close to what it’s trade in value will be. If a four-wheel drive truck version comes out, I will give it a serious look….

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Charlie

            My last encounter with a PRIUS resulted in the untimely death of the Prius.

            My 3/4 ton Suburban killed it deader than shit. Lucky the Hi Spanic driver wasn’t killed as well.

            That great mileage did count for shit when it really mattered.

            The LAW OF LUGNUTS was once again proven true.

            • JAC, you’re such a man. Did you make fun of the Hi Spanic drive when he got out of his Prius? Did he beat your face to a pulp with his bare fists or did you bust a move and race away? 🙂

              • Just A Citizen says:

                He didn’t get out of his Prius Charlie. Not until right before I left. I didn’t make fun OF him but the Sheriff and I did have some laughs while waiting for the Tow Trucks to arrive.

                He did not take a swing at me. Which is a good thing because it would not have ended well for him if he did. I walked home after the paper work was completed and my Suburban loaded on the tow truck.

        • And what is wrong with mobile lunatics with guns, 60 round mags, thousands of rounds of ammo, red dot/laser sights, k bar knife, and Dr. Pepper?

          Answer: A Prius driver that drinks Starbucks coffee and sings ” it’s a small world”.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Yes, see my note to Charlie on my encounter with one of those. Starbucks drinker, singer and IPOD user.

  49. George Bernard Shaw……….what an interesting character. Satirical in prose. He was brilliant with his satire and used it more than Charlie to stir the pots. He was required reading in high school. I do not think that I would go as far as to classify him as a humantarian…..but he did have his moments.

  50. I would suggest that those who wish to critique George Bernard Shaw read the following plays…..

    1) the Philanderer
    2) Arms and Man
    3) the Devil’s Desciple
    4) Man and Superman (very interesting)
    5) the Doctor’s Dilemma ( interesting insight to Shaw )
    6) Pygmalion ( A must read )
    7) Androcles and the Lion
    8) the Apple Cart
    9) the Millionairess
    (10) Arthur and the Acetone

    These are what I consider the top writings that indicate the beliefs of Mr. Shaw. Some writings on this list show his views of women, his views on government, his views on religion, and his views on society.

    The man was brilliant in his use of satire but his viewpoints very controversial.

  51. Okay, time to anti-up and buy some summer reading … the Red Mob (redfellas) vs. one woman … and why nobody should get excited about the NFL draft … and why Hockey is quickly becoming my favorite sport … and a place not to stay in atlantic city (but what a movie!) … http://temporaryknucksline.blogspot.com/2013/04/mafiya-goes-kindle-draft-rangers.html This from last week so expect another one domani … 🙂

  52. It appears that Obama’s “self radicalization” is DOA. FBI ties a group together in the Boston issue. All foreigners and all Muslim.

  53. D13 – Curious on your thoughts on how this is laid out. Could this just be communication issues? Are our systems that bad? I smell a rat, mostly because of how this has been handled from day one by this adm. and their continuing refusals, pretend ignorance of issues and screeching “what difference”. A lot of talk about how it all happened, before, during and after, but I wonder if the big question is really what was going on over there in the first place. Your thoughts?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/02/special-ops-called-for-military-assets-to-move-into-position-during-libya/#ixzz2S9Jgo0Ok

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