When Are the Lies Enough?

What is it going to take in this country to see the Federal Government for what it is?   Benghazi, being bad enough, now the IRS targeting organizations based on political ideology.  Even as the IRS has admitted such, Obama still uses the word “IF” in his recent answers to the questions.   Is it time for the informed public to remove their consent of the Federal Government and dismiss them as criminal.  Demading the military remove them from office could be the next step in maintaining peace through the process.  Just some thoughts, feel free to post as an Open Mic and have a Great Day  🙂


  1. gmanfortruth says:

    Yes, I’m starting to look at a Junta as a solution to the problem of the 800 lb gorilla. Happy Tuesday 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:


      HELL NO!!


      • gmanfortruth says:

        I said starting to look at it as an option, by no means am I suggesting it, yet 🙂

    • I had to look it up-but now that I have-Have you lost your mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Voting will not fix the corruption, do you have any ideas? Revolution? Anything?

        • Just A Citizen says:


          An ARMED revolution is not out of the question. But a series of steps must be followed before that would ever have the moral backing needed.

          Our Founders established such precedent in their march to freedom. We need to do the same.

          The end game, before revolution, is the States AMENDING the Constitution to effectively reduce Federal Power and to fix the corruption in the system as we know it.

          If that can not be done, then WE are in a minority. Then we will have to choose whether to stay and suffer or leave. But what right do we have to use force to overthrow a govt if its is in reality supported by a majority? There is such a right but MOST people would not accept it. Thus dooming any revolution before it started.

          Now if the AMENDMENTS were completed but then overturned or sidestepped by the Federal Govt, there would be justifiable outrage and a moral case for overthrow of the govt by force, if needed.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            JAC, I see all of your points and do not disagree. I was just bringing up an idea not talked about here before. We will never get an Amendment passed to do this, too many can vote for cookies, too many are totally oblivious to whats going on and the rest can’t agree on anything. Once again, you are counting on a vote. This has been and will continue to be a failure when the 536 are involved. They have too much money and influence, not to mention they don’t tell the truth to often. Voting will not pull the teeth of the 536.

            No Revolution will begin or really be considered in this country. All I can see is various sections in every state passing laws that disallow the Feds any access or authority. These are already being discussed. Once this occurs, look for signs that say such. At this point, these local areas will have a fairly large militia (all able bodied men (and boys) who can shoot a high power.

            Let’s face it, the Feds don’t give a rats ass if a few counties in Pa tell them to piss up a rope. As this grows, mostly in rural communities, and mostly unnoticed by the Feds, things will get crazy when they try to change things. Blood will spill as they won’t be ready. They will not have the support of the military like they think they will. Eyes are opening my friend, in all the right places too!

            I hope today finds you and yours healthy and happy 🙂

            • Just A Citizen says:


              You don’t need CONGRESS to amend the Constitution.

              YOU NEED 3/4 of the STATES.

              So yes voting is needed. But it is voting for STATE legislators. Who should be more in tune with STATE politics rather than D.C. politics.

              Regardless of the challenges, this is the only way that will succeed.

              Even if the country collapses, per the BF theory, we will almost certainly resort to what we know. Which will be the Constitutional process.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                We will go to the Constitutional process for sure, but an Amendment must get started, any suggestions?

  2. “Demading the military remove them from office could be the next step in maintaining peace through the process.”

    Absolutely hilarious … once again you dismiss the fact that the 1% own the government AND the military … or why are so many of you so willing to defend the government and go to war (even when the wars themselves make ZERO SENSE)?

    Capitalism is what you need to do away with, boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Could you please prove your comments with some links? Who exactly here is defending the government besides Todd? (That’s your buddy). Who is supporting going to war? Last I checked we are almost all against any new wars (and old ones for that matter). Maybe you should go back to your Commie blogs and get your facts straight, because everything you just posted has no basis of fact. Girrrrrrllllll 🙂

      • gmanfortruth says:

        And why do you keep blaming a form of economy for the corruption of government? No matter what form of economy, a corrupt govt will corrupt it. What form of economy would you like? Communism is not a form of economy and neither is socialism. Please provide some information that has a realist chance at succeeding. The world wants to know 🙂

      • Who exactly here is defending the government besides Todd? (That’s your buddy). Who is supporting going to war?

        So you’re all anarchists? Is that it? Somehow I seriously doubt that, G.

        You have several veterans here (and no knock on them personally) but who sent them to war, G? You? Me? Or the government they’re fighting for?

        • I meant to ask you the other day Charlie-when it comes to the military and war-We talk and even agree that we do things we shouldn’t, we have wars we shouldn’t have had and we can blame it on ourselves and some claim that the military shouldn’t just follow the lead of the government. But how exactly is that supposed to work. Should we not have a military? should each individual soldier take it upon his self to decide for the whole Country what orders he will follow?

          • But how exactly is that supposed to work. Should we not have a military? should each individual soldier take it upon his self to decide for the whole Country what orders he will follow?

            GREAT question, V.H. (and probably a great topic — listening, G?) … to my mind, after being completely fooled into supporting the war with Iraq and Afghanistan (and probably would have supported the Vietnam war but was too young to understand the bullshit we were being fed) … I’d say, no more “oaths” … no more pledging of nationalism … it’s a huge crock (in my opinion–again, not meant to disprespect those who have) … the Mob has an oath that is has as much value as any other oath (including our military oaths) … it is a sucker’s game that permits punishment for doing what our better angels (conscience) might tell us to do. That said, I believe in a draft (to go along with national health care and education) so that EVERYBODY serves and EARNS they’re national rewards … but when it comes to war, as I’ve often stated, those who would vote us into one MUST BE REQUIRED TO SEND THEIR FAMILY FIRST (KIDS, COUSINS, RELATIVES, those of age) … first and foremost … and on the front lines without reservation. If Bush had to send his two daughters, Obama his two daughters, etc., something tells me those wars just wouldn’t have happened.

            And, should soldiers decide for themselves that a war is immoral, they are free to walk away. I have NO PROBLEM with that. No punishment or anything recriminatory. They get to walk.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          You have several veterans here (and no knock on them personally) but who sent them to war, G? You? Me? Or the government they’re fighting for?

          Total strawman and unrelated. Now, do you have any facts to present or just more Commie babble? 🙂

          • It’s a strawman to those who can’t answer it, G … you’re getting to the point where you should be ignored, my friend 🙂

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Charlie, you have lost the course of the “Junta” subject. You changed the subject to fit your ideology, which has zero to do with the subject. The subject was removing the gang of 536 by gunpoint, a Junta. We can do without them for a long time until we the people change the ability to get corrupted by removing the power of the Federal Government.

              The Governors can handle any important decisions by vote. This will never happen, at least not until the 536 have gone to far. I do agree that those who vote for war should lead the charge. That my friend is easy to like 🙂

              • Charlie, you have lost the course of the “Junta” subject …

                Why would you leave “Governors” in place?

                I agree it will take a revolution … but they’re almost always messy and usually restore a new set of sell-outs. It has to be a grass roots overthrow … literally mobilized masses who refuse to vote for either party … but don’t expect it anytime soon. Why the 1% has such a grip on the masses today is capitalism (make no mistake) … we’re all too busy trying to surive and wind up ignoring the countless slaps to our chops (bailouts, benghazi’s, Iraq & Afghanistan wars, etc.) …

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Charlie, we agree on more than you think, let’s try and fix it, see post below 🙂

  3. Love Drudge! Hopefully this corrupt president will drown in his own bs.


  4. Citizens United! Citizens United! Aaack, that Citizens United made the IRS do it!

  5. Hmmmm, a good question that I think we know the answer to. Would this nation be willing to impeach the first (real) black president due to corruption?


    • Just A Citizen says:

      I wonder if Stewart will ever wake up to the reality that he has ridiculed so often?

  6. Just A Citizen says:

    Wagons beginning to circle.


    The first evidence of my post last night. Note that nobody has clearly distinguished between “applicants” for 501c4 status and those that “have” that status.

    What was happening was harassment of those “applying”. What is being used to rationalize this is the need to investigate those who have already been “approved”.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the IRS and the illegal wire tapping of the AP. What the hell else do people need to get these bums thrown out?

  7. Just A Citizen says:

    I have something to add this morning along the lines of the People pushing back.

    We have all heard about the issues with Sequestration and the impacts to States caused by reductions in Grant and other funding.

    Well apparently some States are REFUSING to GIVE BACK MONEY that had been previously granted.

    The Administration, in its effort to cause pain to be news worthy, has asked States to give back money that would cause some issues for people within the states.

    Some States are now saying NO. You gave it to us, it is ours.

  8. Can someone help me here? Why can’t Obama pick up the phone and all Holder? (now I truly believe this was all done with O’s encouragement upfront, so I realize the phone call wouldn’t be necessary). But what is this patsy trying to say?


    • You compartmentalize and then make sure you have plausible deniability. That way, someone gets to be sacrificed or off themselves with no link to the higher-ups. Despite all the talk of “taking responsibility” for major screw-ups this has not led to anyone resigning. Unless congress is willing to put teeth into “contempt” of congress and actually have guys like Holder led away in handcuffs, Nothing will happen.

      I’m not doing any of the dirty work, but if if you need another scandal, you can look at the LaHood handling of the Merchant Marine Academy. Resignations happened awhile back over Sr. DOT officials appointments to the academy and certain after hours events that
      went on with those appointees. Rather than go public, resignations were asked for and accepted. After a month or two, the Superintendent was given a lateral transfer as punishment for pressuring out the corrupt staff members. Since that time every effort has been made to “punish” the Academy,including the kicking off from the campus the highly effective Alunmni association which raises a fortune in non taxpayer dollars to supplement the meager contributions of the government. The “Kings Pointer”, the Academy training ship has also been taken away leaving them with no vessel.

      I am absolutely certain that events like these are going on in every governmental agency. You cannot have the massive reordering that the President wants without running wild.

  9. You have to see Holder on TV as we speak…….having no knowledge of the AP records grab and that he has been “recused”………the head of the justice department…having no knowledge of justice department secret wire taps, to include the lawyers. Unbelievable.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      One would believe that the whole administration from Obama down don’t know shit. What good are they? Lying pricks, all of them 👿

    • I’m watching too Colonel. Jay Carney was on right before him. Neither of these guys know or saw anything!! Watching them avoid answering questions is sickening.

    • I say at this point we stop worrying about the facts and the why’s of everything and just kick Obama and Holder out based on their own insistence that they are too incompetent to do their jobs.

  10. Just A Citizen says:

    “All too many of the other great tragedies of history – Stalin’s atrocities, the killing fields of Cambodia, the Holocaust, to name but a few – were perpetrated by armed troops against unarmed populations. Many could well have been avoided or mitigated, had the perpetrators known their intended victims were equipped with a rifle and twenty bullets apiece, as the Militia Act required here. If a few hundred Jewish fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto could hold off the Wehrmacht for almost a month with only a handful of weapons, six million Jews armed with rifles could not so easily have been herded into cattle cars.

    My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons of history.

    The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late.

    The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed – where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees.

    However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.”

    Judge Alex Kozinski dissenting in Silveira v. Lockyer, 328 F.3d 567 (9th Circuit 2003) (full text)

    We may live in a relatively peaceful and open society, but it is our right to bear arms that has made it possible.

    Take that away, and in due time, a dark cloud of tyranny will inevitably descend upon the land of the free.

    The storm clouds are already on the horizon. From SHTF.

    “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”

    Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

  11. gmanfortruth says:
    • gmanfortruth says:

      Private property! In my opinion, without a warrant, nobody can enter private property without permission. I have heard about “probable cause”, which is very subjective. We will always ask uninvited visitors to leave (which has only happened once in 3 years). So far, compliance has been peaceful.

      Question, do we have the right to use force to remove an unwanted trespasser, if it’s a government employee with no legal cause to be here?

  12. gmanfortruth says:

    Interesting facts that should open some eyes: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/10-scenes-from-the-economic-collapse-that-is-sweeping-across-the-planet

    #10 is about income disparity. It’s a world problem, not just a US issue. It is not something that will ever be fixed, yet people will still whine about it.

  13. Just A Citizen says:

    Ah YES!

    The perks of our Fascist system come to light once more. Of course, this same thing occurs under Communism. But what the hell, lets blame capitalism instead.


  14. Just A Citizen says:

    By the way folks. It is not out of the ordinary for the AG to recuse himself from a particular case. Nor is it for any Govt official.

    It is not common in the agencies I have experience with but Justice Dept is a little different. Just like judges who get appointed then have to recuse themselves because of prior connecti0ons to a case.

    So it would not be good to “assume” Holder is making up stories here by claiming he recused himself from the AP investigation.

    However, this and other matters REFLECT on the tone he allows to be prominent under his leadership. People don’t go hunting skunks on their own unless they think skunk hunting is OK with their boss. Even if the boss didn’t give the direct go ahead.

  15. Just A Citizen says:

    ROTFLMAO…………………….. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury………….. I give you Exhibit B in the case of “it will be about Bush”.

    WASHINGTON — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) hit back at Republicans over the politicization of the IRS scandal on Tuesday, charging that they were silent when the agency went after progressive groups during the George W. Bush administration and now look the other way when Karl Rove blatantly flouts his tax-exempt status.

  16. gmanfortruth says:

    JAC has a good idea about an Amendment to the Constitution that would pull the teeth of the Federal Government. I think this is a great challenge and we should undertake this idea as a challenge to create an Amendment and identify the ways in which to get it to the States for a vote. Will anyone here accept the challenge I have presented? This Amendment should eliminate all known problems with the fewest words possible. Any takers? 🙂

    • gmanfortruth says:

      UHM! This may take more than 1 Amendment 🙂

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Ya think?? 🙂

        • Just a wee bit, LOL 😆 I was thinking about a thread on just this issue, interested?

          • If we can keep Charlie focused on the issue, he would be an asset. Todd as well. Views from the left would be a good thing to try and do it right!

          • Just A Citizen says:


            I’ve been trying to find some references this afternoon to ongoing efforts in this regard.

            Yes it would make a great article and one which I will take on. Of course I’ve made such claims in the past and something always gets in the way.

            In fact I would like to see us get onto many topics that fit into the WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT category.

            Maybe we should tackle a few of the issues or categories before launching into the broader fix. I’ll give this some hard thought the next couple of days while searching for the Amendment stuff. I lost my research with recent computer crash so I have to look up everything again.

  17. gmanfortruth says:

    Obama says: Complaining about a lack of community spirit in Washington DC, the president said Sunday that he wishes to see institutionalized the kind of atmosphere that emerged in Boston following the recent terrorist bombings, so his administration can get things done.

    Let me just say that I think this may be a warning of a coming event. With all of the “gates” going on, Obama needs to deflect the attention. People will die, as early as this week. It may very well happen in DC. Then again, nothing may happen. But, if it does, remember this post. As a note, I will not be traveling, so it won’t be me , LOL 🙂


  18. gmanfortruth says:
  19. For V.H.

    Representative Steve Stockman from Texas 36th District released this statement:

    A court has formally declared what people with consciences have long known. Abortionist Kermit Gosnell is a murderer.

    Gosnell killed his adult patient, and an unknown number of children both pre-born and born alive. The courts call it murder. Democrats call it “health care.”

    Kermit Gosnell’s crimes have exposed the horrors and inhumanity of legalized abortion for all to see. The most innocent and defenseless of humans are lined up and exterminated with cold efficiency for the crime of being inconvenient.

    Despite the blood-soaked horror of Gosnell’s clinic, Democrats refuse to loosen their embrace of unrestricted, unregulated, taxpayer-funded abortion on demand.

    Democrats do not want abortion to be safe or rare. Democrats oppose even the most basic of health and safety standards for abortion mills. Democrats don’t care how many women are maimed, infected with diseases or die on the routinely-filthy abortion mills. Democrats worship abortion with same fervor the Canaanites worshipped Molech.

    Even more chilling, as an Illinois state Senator Barack Obama voted several times to make Gosnell’s inhuman crimes the law of the land. I hope this verdict moves him to look into his soul and change his position.

    Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/top-lawmakers-on-gosnell-verdict-the-courts-call-it-murder-democrats-call-it-healthcare/#ixzz2TJObcpF7

  20. This is what mentally ill looks and sounds like 🙄 http://conservativebyte.com/2013/05/pelosi-tells-a-whopper/

  21. This goes all the way to Obama, hang him high!

    Washington IRS Officials Were Involved in Targeting Conservative Groups

    Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/IRS-Political-Groups/2013/05/14/id/504339?s=al&promo_code=137B9-1#ixzz2TJna25Yi

    • I remember my local Rep. Tom McClintock mentioning this on the radio several months ago. I believe it was before the election. It was known. It is just another story the MSM did not follow up on.

  22. http://news.yahoo.com/michigan-district-fires-teachers-closes-every-school-012040117.html

    Interesting article. It’s missing one subject, want to guess what it is?

    • Just A Citizen says:


      One part that is missing is the fact that they were funded at a fixed $/student rate, like all schools. But when the enrollment didn’t pan out they spent the money anyway.

      So they spent money they were not supposed to get, overspent, and now are using the media to apply pressure to the Governor to force release of rainy day funds.

      Oh, and the district serves one of the “inner city” areas. Thus the drop in enrollment.

    • There is a very simple solution, harkens back to the left’s idea in Vietnam. Declare them educated, hand them a diploma and walk away.

  23. gmanfortruth says:

    Happy Wednesday 🙂 What wonderful news will we get today? Another scandal? Maybe another attack on innocent people? One thing is for sure, there will be more lies coming out of the District of Clowns. Things sure need to change, don’t they?

  24. Little bit old news but remind me not to piss off Jeanine Pirro. You go girl:

  25. gmanfortruth says:
  26. BELCHERTOWN (CBS) – Shortly after midnight Tuesday, seven people were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir.

    State Police say the five men and two women are from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore, and “cited their education and career interests” for being in the area. The men told police they were chemical engineers and recent college graduates.

    The Quabbin, in Belchertown, is one of the country’s largest man-made public water supplies. Boston’s drinking water comes from the Quabbin and the Wachusett Reservoirs.

    State Police say there were no warrants or advisories on any of the individuals and “there was no evidence that the seven were committing any crime beyond the trespassing.”

    All seven were allowed to leave and will be summonsed to court for trespassing. The FBI is investigating and routine checks of public water supplies have been increased following the incident.

    The seven individuals currently live in Amherst, Cambridge, Sunderland, Northampton and New York City. Police have not released their names because a court date has not been set.

  27. Some wealthy Manhattan moms have figured out a way to cut the long lines at Disney World — by hiring disabled people to pose as family members so they and their kids can jump to the front, The Post has learned. The “black-market Disney guides” run $130 an hour, or $1,040 for an eight-hour day.

    “My daughter waited one minute to get on ‘It’s a Small World’ — the other kids had to wait 2 1/2 hours,” crowed one mom, who hired a disabled guide through Dream Tours Florida.

    The woman said she hired a Dream Tours guide to escort her, her husband and their 1-year-old son and 5-year-old daughter through the park in a motorized scooter with a “handicapped” sign on it. The group was sent straight to an auxiliary entrance at the front of each attraction.

    Disney allows each guest who needs a wheelchair or motorized scooter to bring up to six guests to a “more convenient entrance.”

    The Florida entertainment mecca warns that there “may be a waiting period before boarding.” But the consensus among upper-crust moms who have used the illicit handicap tactic is that the trick is well worth the cost.

    Not only is their “black-market tour guide” more efficient than Disney World’s VIP Tours, it’s cheaper, too.

    Disney Tours offers a VIP guide and fast passes for $310 to $380 per hour.

    D13 chuckles: So, you have Disney that makes money by selling “fast passes” to allow people to cut lines….Disney has tour guides that hire out to take families through Disney and get special treatment……and now, you have a company that has been formed whereby you can hire a disabled person to go around with you and cut lines……..the market place provides.

    • Somehow, someday there is serious fire and brimstone awaiting!

    • Capitalism, doing what it always does, provides for the wealthy while exploiting … always, always, always exploiting …

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Capitalism does not provide anything. People provide things.

        The wealthy take care of themselves in this case.

        • JAC, that’s one obnoxious way to look at it, sure. The fact is, one cannot happen without the other … and as wealth is concentrated in fewer hands, more have nots join the ranks … great system … soon we’ll have a king.

      • In this case, my canoli friend….I see a handicap person, on a limited income, using his handicap to his advantage….and exploiting the rich stupid enough to pay for this.

      • Ah, Comrade and at Noviskauya amusement park outside of Moscow all workers had to wait in line but they applauded when they saw the commissars and their families go to the front of the line. They applauded loudly…..or else!

  28. http://politicaloutcast.com/2013/05/boys-to-shower-with-girls-in-california-public-schools/

    The LGBT crowd isn’t trying to shove their lifestyles up our ass’s, are they?

  29. Good lord. Can’t even keep up with it all. Kudos to Malkin for doing so.


  30. From my upcoming TK (Friday) … some of yous knuckleheads will actually appreciate this.

    The Trifecta/Hat Trick … El Jeffe seems to have quite a bit of water he’s trying to keep his head above. The IRS scandal … Benghazi … and the latest addition to his list of Nobel Peace Prizes, The AP scandal … nothing quite like a transparent presidency … and it isn’t looking very good that the so-called main street media seems to be observing this one from the sidelines. My last check at the NY Times site (Wednesday, May 15 @ 1:10 p.m.), the AP scandal is nowhere to be found on the front page. So, as of my last double-check to make sure, I’ll classify the NY Times in the same bracket as FOX Noise.

    • You’re such a sucker, Charlie. I can’t figure out if you are naturally ignorant or have to work at it, but seriously, do yourself a favor and move to somewhere where your utopia of all are equal and all are entitled exists.

      • Wait! I don’t see the problem here. I think Charlie is sticking up for the homeless and cheering that someone is putting A&F in check. I like the video. Does that put me in Charlie’s class? Please say no.!

        But now I know why I’m seeing posts on Craigslist looking for A&F clothes!

        • Why, thank you, Anita, my love.

          And, hey, Kathy … anyone tell you HELLO lately?

          Seriously, HELLO!


        • Charlie isn’t sticking up for any homeless – he’s trying poorly to once again slam someone who he decides is elite. A business has every right to cater to whatever market they decide is their niche. If someone doesn’t like it – don’t shop there. Simple as that.

          BTW – many labels do not carry plus sizes. Does this make them all bad? This whole idea that everyone must be accommodated everywhere is nuts – but that is Charlie.

          • “If someone doesn’t like it – don’t shop there. Simple as that.”

            Hell, why not different water fountains for whites and blacks? Don’t like the white fountain, drink from the black one!

            Thank you, Kathy … for once again making my point …

          • By the way, genius, here’s some else of what his “market niche” had to say …

            Oy vey … it’s like talking to rocks.

          • And, if their self image blows them up like a big fat balloon, then it is all the more fun to pop it!

            Was watching one of those reality based shows the other night, “World’s Worst Tenants”. Like it because it brings back some funny memories of the things I’ve run into. Anyway, there was this resident managing agent who harassed all the young women in a rather chi-chi upscale beachfront complex. One stopped paying rent and our heroes went to find out why. Her story was that this guy kept raising her rent far beyond what other similar units were going for. She thought that was harassment and was thinking of suing. OK, I know what YOU ARE thinking but you, like I would have been wrong. The harassment was real and it was directed at these attractive young women to force them out so he could rent to very attractive young guys at below market rents.

            So, the question really is, does a business have every right to cater to a market niche? At what cost?

            My take on these things is that if you are going to be an asshole, then perhaps having a law against assholes is neither workable nor the best way to go. Shame and ridicule are.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              So, the question really is, does a business have every right to cater to a market niche? At what cost?

              YES. At whatever price they choose.

            • “My take on these things is that if you are going to be an asshole, then perhaps having a law against assholes is neither workable nor the best way to go. Shame and ridicule are.”

              Fair enough. My wife sides with Kathy (as far as a business owner having the right to target a niche market), but when I pose this question: “So, as a diner owner, I insist fat people sit on a walled-in side of the diner (or as a health club owner, I don’t want fat people ruining my image, etc.) … those, I’m pretty sure are illegal. If one is, then why isn’t the other? But you’re probably right, bad press is probably the best solution. And yes, there are no laws against being an asshole.

      • By the way, we’ll be winning the “utopian” war right here sooner or later … it’s just a matter of time, dear … then you can move 🙂

        • Bye the way, Since you can’t pick on us guys, because we don’t take your dumb shit, now you have to pick on the ladies? What are you? Communist 🙂 Pick on me!


          • G – appreciate it, but he’s not picking on me. It’s just crazy Charlie. I never know if I should pity him or contribute to a mental health charity in his name.

          • I didn’t see your smile or I would’ve “picked on you” … 🙂

            Come on, G … all is fair in name calling. I’m a firm believer in feminism … Kathy can handle it. You should learn how to handle it as well. Besides, cowards, I thought we established, are those who don’t use their real names 🙂

            • Charlie, please don’ call the ladies names. I can handle it, but it was unneeded on your part. No, I’m not going to waste my time coming to Jersey just to go to jail, not my style, 🙂

              You established the use of names that way, no one else cares 🙂

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    OK Folks Here is a MUST READ.

    And just when I was starting to doubt Stockman he came up with this:


    Oh and Charlie. There is a specific note in this article for you.

    • Oh, and JAC … here’s one for you, 🙂


      • Just A Citizen says:


        Let me guess, you didn’t read my referenced article.

        Otherwise your post would have said, “Gee JAC, looks like that explains this….”

        From yours, the tide turned in 1934…………….

        From mine, FDR’s unilateral action to destroy our currency in 1933 led to global economic chaos and economic nationalism, which led global depression and then to a world war.

        • so it was best to let 75% of the population remain in poverty … yeah, that sounds about right for Ayn Randers … after all, it was their fault, right? (sarcasm intended) … amazing how you read what you want to read, JAC … you’re consistent, I’ll give you that … consistently wrong, but consistent.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Here you go. A chance to some free education.

        • The beauty of this, JAC … is your holding onto those blinders with both hands … and how does this government manage to incorporate crony capitalism … considering it’s owned by the 1% (capitalists, each and every one of them) … gee, such a difficult math problem, huh? Hold tight to those blinders, my friend … or your entire worldview falls apart … 🙂

    • Feds Seize Bitcoin Account for ‘Unlicensed Money Transferring’
      May. 15, 2013 9:41pm Liz Klimas

      Feds Issue Warrant to Seize Bitcoin Account for Unlicensed Money Transmitting

      A symbol in the window of a local pub indicates the acceptance of Bitcoins for payment on April 11, 2013 in Berlin, Germany. Bitcoins are a digital currency traded on the MTGox exchange. (Photo: Sean Gallup/Getty Images)

      The Bitcoin trading platform Mt. Gox in Tuwsday was issued a warrant that stopped its ability to send or accept transfers of the electronic currency through its Dwolla payment service.

      Betabeat reported that the Department of Homeland Security issued a “seizure warrant” for the Dwolla account, and a copy of the warrant obtained by Ars Technica revealed it was for “unlicensed money transmitting.”

      The warrant, in part, states:

      (a) Whoever knowingly conducts, controls, manages, supervises, directs, or owns all or part of an unlicensed money transmitting business, shall be fined in accordance with this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
      (b) As used in this section—
      (1) the term “unlicensed money transmitting business” means a money transmitting business which affects interstate or foreign commerce in any manner or degree…

      The warrant identifies Mark Karpeles, the president and CEO of Mt. Gox, as opening a Wells Fargo bank account in May 2011 under Mt. Gox’s subsidiary company Mutum Sigillum. The application for the account, the warrant states, explicitly asked if the company exchanges currency for customers and if it “[accepts] funds from customers or [sends] the funds based on customer instructions (Money Transmitter)?”

      To both of these, Karpeles answered no.

      If Mt. Gox or Mutum Sigillum were transmitting money, it would need to be registered with FinCen, and neither are, according to the records mentioned in the warrant.

      The warrant goes on to show how a “confidential informant” was able to reveal that the company was “engaged in a money transmitting business but is not registered with FinCen.”

      Through the Dwolla account, the feds established that it has probable caused to believe Mt. Gox or Mutum Sigillum were violating 18 U.S.C. section 1960. Due to this, the Wells Fargo account and the Dwolla account, which was held through Veridian Credit Union, were subject to seizure.

      This is the latest statement Mt. Gox issued on its Facebook profile, which was nearly 24 hours ago:

      Like many who have contacted us, MtGox has read on the Internet that the United States Department of Homeland Security had a court order and/or warrant issued from the United States District Court in Maryland which it served upon the Dwolla mobile payment service with respect to accounts used for trading with MtGox. We take this information seriously. However, as of this time we have not been provided with a copy of the court order and/or warrant, and do not know its scope and/or the reasons for its issuance. MtGox is investigating and will provide further reports when additional information becomes known.

      This news comes after bitcoin saw a rapid rise in its value within the last couple months. The currency did go through a bit of a “bitcrash” but was still significantly higher than it had been before.


      • gmanfortruth says:

        Saw this coming. I didn’t expect the Govt to give up their monopoly on money without a fight. Bitcoin was doomed from the beginning.

  32. gmanfortruth says:

    gmanfortruth says:
    May 15, 2013 at 11:36 am • Edit

    Charlie, please tell us what you would replace Capitalism with? The world wants to know 😆

    Just A Citizen says:
    May 15, 2013 at 12:29 pm • Edit

    The question should be what does he want to replace freedom and liberty with.
    charlieopera says:
    May 15, 2013 at 1:19 pm • Edit

    A hybrid of socialism and capitalism … (what some of you lunatics claim is going on now, but you’re clueless) 🙂

    So, in simple terms, Charlie wants the USA to follow in the footsteps of Greece 🙄 Actually, we are going to follow their footsteps, so Charlie gets his wish.

  33. gmanfortruth says:

    It’s gonna be a great Spring day! I hope everyone has a good day! Stay safe and stay healthy 🙂 You too Charlie 🙂

  34. Finally, some spring weather….complete with rain, hail, and “naders”……nothing much…a couple of F3’s…but everything ok here. We only had seven on the ground this time…..it doesn’t get interesting until we get to the 10 mark…….and above F3….but, none the less, there were some killed and hurt…and that is never ok.

    • Heading to Granbury to help a friend with a tree on his roof. Be nice to everyone today, Charlie.

      • if they’re nice to me, Colonel 🙂

      • Yikes – 6 dead down there. That’s a tough one. Watching a clip on TV right now and looking for you in the background.

        • So where is all the angst about people not being prepared … or being fools for living in tornado country? Why didn’t they have peanut butter and crackers? Why didn’t they build shelters? And those that were killed … what was wrong with them … didn’t they know how to prepare?

          Yes, it’s sarcasm … but maybe some a’yous understand a little more what those on the coastline went through … maybe, but I doubt it.

          • Do you actually think through anything before you post? Do you understand even remotely the difference between having perhaps a 10, 20 maybe 30 minute notice vs. those on the coast having several days notice? And those on the coast literally living steps away from the ocean and still choosing not to evacuate nor make the effort to buy some basics, like peanut butter and crackers (or fill up their car with gas!!!!)? Do you understand that in a tornado, you don’t evacuate, you take shelter in the best place in your house and yet your house may still topple on top of you?

            Any of this making sense?

            • Careful Kathy, Common sense requires thinking and someone’s head might explode if that happens 😆

            • Makes perfect sense … those living on the coast (which includes Manhattan, in case you’ve never left your redneck backyard), a million or so, many who couldn’t afford to leave, deserve what they got … and imagine not having peanut butter and crackers or gas when they live on the 7th floor of a tenament and probably don’t own a car?

              But why evacuate when you can choose to live somewhere safe? Aren’t they fools for choosing to live in tornado country?

              So, no, I guess it doesn’t make much sense … you’re not in the house (because you chose not to live there), it can’t topple on you, can it?

              Yes, G, the day you can put together a cogent argument/debate, the world may well explode.

  35. Spying on the House of Representatives-no wonder Holder is playing dumb. Wouldn’t you just love working for this “man” I don’t know nothing-but my underling there-go after him.

    Congressman Devin Nunes: The DOJ Seized House Cloak Room Phone Records, Too
    by Debra Heine 15 May 2013 99 post a comment

    Congressman Devin Nunes (R-CA), who sits on the House Ways And Means Committee, dropped a bombshell on Hugh Hewitt’s Show, Wednesday night. Nunes was on the show to talk about his committee’s upcoming hearing Friday into IRS-gate. The congressman broke news when he alleged that the Justice Department seized phone records from the House of Representatives as part of their investigation of the AP.

    Via Hot Air Greenroom, here’s the essential part of the transcript:

    HH: The idea that this might be a Geithner-Axelrod plan, and by that, the sort of intimation, Henry II style, will no one rid me of this turbulent priest, will no one rid me of these turbulent Tea Parties, that might have just been a hint, a shift of an eyebrow, a change in the tone of voice. That’s going to take a long time to get to. I don’t trust the Department of Justice on this. Do you, Congressman Nunes?

    DN: No, I absolutely do not, especially after this wiretapping incident, essentially, of the House of Representative. I don’t think people are focusing on the right thing when they talk about going after the AP reporters. The big problem that I see is that they actually tapped right where I’m sitting right now, the Cloak Room.

    HH: Wait a minute, this is news to me.

    DN: The Cloak Room in the House of Representatives.

    HH: I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    DN: So when they went after the AP reporters, right? Went after all of their phone records, they went after the phone records, including right up here in the House Gallery, right up from where I’m sitting right now. So you have a real separation of powers issue that did this really rise to the level that you would have to get phone records that would, that would most likely include members of Congress, because as you know…

    HH: Wow.

    DN: …members of Congress talk to the press all the time.

    HH: I did not know that, and that is a stunner.

    DN: Now that is a separation of powers issue here, Hugh.

    HH: Sure.

    DN: And it’s a freedom of press issue. And now you’ve got the IRS going after people. So these things are starting to cascade one upon the other, and you have the White House pretending like they’re in the clouds like it’s not their issue somehow.

    Oh, here’s another shocker…

    According to FOX19.com-Cincinnati News, the two allegedly “rogue” “low level” employees charged with overly aggressively handling requests from conservative groups over the past two years from the Cincinnati IRS office, were “simply doing what their bosses ordered”.


    • This is WRONG! Update

      Devin Nunes’s office clarifies: No, the DOJ didn’t wiretap the cloakroom in the House of Representatives

      posted at 4:01 pm on May 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

      Duane Patterson’s Greenroom transcript of Nunes’s chat with Hugh Hewitt was accurate, but Nunes’s claims were not. Which seemed likely at the time: If the GOP was sitting on a scoop about Eric Holder’s deputies bugging conversations inside Congress, it probably would have been announced in a more prominent way than as an aside during an interview with a member who’s not part of leadership.

      Here’s what he said:

      HH: …I don’t trust the Department of Justice on this. Do you, Congressman Nunes?

      DN: No, I absolutely do not, especially after this wiretapping incident, essentially, of the House of Representative. I don’t think people are focusing on the right thing when they talk about going after the AP reporters. The big problem that I see is that they actually tapped right where I’m sitting right now, the Cloak Room.

      HH: Wait a minute, this is news to me.

      DN: The Cloak Room in the House of Representatives.

      HH: I have no idea what you’re talking about.

      DN: So when they went after the AP reporters, right? Went after all of their phone records, they went after the phone records, including right up here in the House Gallery, right up from where I’m sitting right now. So you have a real separation of powers issue that did this really rise to the level that you would have to get phone records that would, that would most likely include members of Congress, because as you know…

      HH: Wow.

      DN: …members of Congress talk to the press all the time.

      HH: I did not know that, and that is a stunner.

      The DOJ admitted to obtaining call records from a phone used by the AP in the House press gallery, which is … different from tapping a room used by congressmen to talk shop. How Nunes confused the two, I have no idea. He recovers a bit, sort of, at the end of the excerpt when he pivots back to phone records, but I don’t know how he got from point A to point B in that conversation. His office is now “clarifying” what he said:

      What Rep. Nunes meant by “tapped” was that the DOJ seized the phone records, as has been widely reported. There was a little confusion between him and the host during the conversation: He did not mean to refer to phone records of the cloakroom itself, but of the Capitol. This refers to the phone records for the AP from the House press gallery, which the DOJ admitted to looking at. He was explaining that if those phone records were seized, they would reveal a lot of conversations between the press and members of Congress, since reporters often speak to Members from the press gallery phones. The notion of the DOJ looking at phone records from the Capitol of conversations between Members of Congress and reporters is something that concerns Rep. Nunes, bringing up issues related to the separation of powers.

      So he was sloppy in confusing obtaining phone records for wiretapping, and what he meant by the cloakroom is that, I guess, if a congressman in the room called up to an AP reporter in the press gallery, the DOJ would know about it from the gallery phone’s records. That’s a legit separation of powers question, but hyping a claim into something explosive and then having to walk it back risks creating an impression that reaction to what the actually DOJ did is overblown. It isn’t. Careful, please.


  36. D13, know you are on the road today, but what do you think of this picture board story by Glenn Beck from last October?

  37. So think about this guy’s story and then relate to how the various government organizations handled the Boston bomber brothers history. And there is no doubt, examples like this have happened everywhere.


  38. Heard big O is sharing the presser today with Turkey’s PM? President? Anyway, would LOVE for someone in the press to have the guts to ask, “with you both here, please tell us about the weapon running that was being done out of Benghazi, through Turkey to Syria. Also, the last person to visit Stevens before he was murdered was the Turkish (amb?). What did he know about what was to happen a short time later?”

    Anyone watch it live?

  39. So, come on, SUFA-ites … why no angst against those stupid enough to live in Tornado zones? Could it be they desire to live there? Could it be it’s where their roots are? Could it be it’s where they work? Could it be they can’t afford to move elsewhere?

    Well, according to some a’yous … that’s pretty tough shit.

    🙂 Smile, Ralphie Boy!

    • “those stupid enough to live in Tornado zones? ”
      So maybe we should move to somewhere safe like New Jersey? Hows the remodeling there going? Keep hearing about people still delayed rebuilding and KNOW it must be a right wing lie….After all, Obama promised to cut thru all the red tape & such. Or California? Some of the nicest weather in the nation! “Course, sometimes the ground shakes a bit and things fall down…

      Maybe most people know life is not safe. You take chances where you live. I’ve been to a lot of places. Pittsburgh rush hour traffic is insane! Two hours to travel five miles…. Who would want to live like that, spending 10 hours or more a week driving just a few miles? LA? They can’t put in enough lanes to cope. How many traffic accidents in your “safe cities” vs deaths due to tornado’s? How many crime deaths?

      Sure Charlie, we’re stupid. It’s kinda funny though how many people from the north work up their their whole lives, saving money and planning to retire. Then they retire and move to the south in droves….Maybe they get “stupid” in their old age? We kinda wonder, why work your whole life planning to escape? Move while you’re young and enjoy the good life for your whole life….

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Nobody condemned people for living in the Jersey shore.

      We criticized them for their stupidity in not leaving or being prepared for disaster.

      People who live in Tornado Alley are one gutsy bunch in my view. If they start whining about not being prepared then I will give them the same criticism.

      • Bullshit … specifically there were taunts for people living so close to any shore … specifically.

        Why not support all, JAC? Does it really hurt your pocketbook that much? Is it taking YOUR liberty? Bullllllllllllllllllllllllllshit … it’s about being decent, my brother. Decent. Anyone who suffers from a natural disaster, even those who dare the storm and don’t evacuate (who knows why they don’t) … they’re fellow human beings, buddy … try being one some time …

  40. This is good. LOI, as a business owner, how does this compare to what you are seeing?


    • DamnedifIknow…. One thing, we have 70+, so are fully under the law. A few years back, I looked at getting health insurance for everyone. The funny thing, it was cheaper for an individual to get personal or family insurance than buying as a group. Also had to have 100% participation, which is impossible. We had people drop supplemental insurance because $7 a week was to much for them….

      5) Stop paying heath care benefits, pay people cash instead and encourage everyone to do health savings accounts (they are not taxed!) and buy catastrophic plans with part of the cash.

      This is not an option for us, we have to prove each employee has insurance or we pay a penalty. The employee faces the same situation, but most don’t seem to believe it is going to cost them. As it stands, we are looking to simply pay the penalty.

      • Universal Health Care … it’s what’s right to do. I thank you. Thank you, very much. 🙂

        • IRS Scandal: The Union Connection
          Thomas Lifson

          Jeffrey Lord of the American Spectator has done us a great favor by investigating the left wing union that represents IRS and other Treasury employees – 150,000 of them in 31 separate government agencies including the IRS. The union has signed on to the left wing agenda, and has funneled 94% of its political contributions in 2012 to Democrats.

          The report is long and informative, and should be read in its entirety. Some key excerpts:

          If you are working in the IRS, and you are an NTEU member, and you know your union leadership is funneling your union dues to anti-Tea Party candidates, and your union has so much raw power within the IRS that they even control whether you, an IRS employee, can get even such mundane tech gear as a Blackberry – what attitude are you going to display as you review Tea Party applications that must, by law, come in to the IRS for approval?

          You already know what to do. And inside the IRS, that’s exactly what was done. The Tea Party, in the vernacular, was screwed. By IRS bureaucrats whose union money is being used to attack the Tea Party. Of course these IRS employees know what to do – most probably without even being asked. There is no need to ask. And if they don’t follow the union program – and want a Blackberry – tough luck.

          The union power, in the hands of committed leftists, is substantial:

          The President of the NTEU – a union that has gone out of its way to use IRS employee money to defeat the Tea Party – has a “vital role in recommending raises for most federal employees” – which includes, of course, IRS employees.

          And the best is yet to come (if you are acommitted leftist):

          With the IRS assuming serious police powers of Obamacare, in effect the members of one left-wing labor union will have access to the private health care records of every single American.

          Lord documents the sordid history of IRS employees leaking confidential information – as happened in the 2012 elections.

          If Americans depend in the IRS to be fair and neutral, then the unionization of employees and the confiscation of part of their paychecks to fund union dues laundered into contributions to the Democrats is very problematic. Left wingers love to discuss “root causes” when it comes to excusing criminality and social pathology. Well, let’s apply that same analytical framework to the IRS. OIt is clear at this moment that permitting federal employees to unionize was a huge blunder. Even FDR understood that.

          I do hope that the House committee investigating the IRS scandals will subpoena union officials and ask them how they imagine IRS employees that influence can be fair when the union itself is so trabidly anti-Tea Party.

          Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/05/irs_scandal_the_union_connection.html#ixzz2TUdH0vux
          Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

          • The union has signed on to the left wing agenda, and has funneled 94% of its political contributions in 2012 to Democrats.

            as opposed to the 100% of 1% money going to Republicans and Democrats (Reps in drag) …

            Workers of the world unite!

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Except that your accusation of the 1% is FALSE.

              But don’t let the truth get in your way.

        • Toilet paper shortage in Venezuela due to ‘excessive demand’ says minister
          Rick Moran

          How bad is the socialist economy in Venezuela? So bad, that they can’t produce enough toilet paper and must now import 50 million rolls.

          I believe there is a direct correlation between the economic health and spiritual well being of a society and the quality and selection of the bathroom tissue it offers. Using that standard, Venezuela’s government isn’t delivering.


          First milk, butter, coffee and cornmeal ran short. Now Venezuela is running out of the most basic of necessities – toilet paper.

          Blaming political opponents for the shortfall, as it does for other shortages, the government says it will import 50m rolls to boost supplies.

          That was little comfort to consumers struggling to find toilet paper on Wednesday.

          “This is the last straw,” said Manuel Fagundes, a shopper hunting for tissue in Caracas. “I’m 71 years old and this is the first time I’ve seen this.”

          One supermarket visited by the Associated Press in the capital on Wednesday was out of toilet paper. Another had just received a fresh batch, and it quickly filled up with shoppers as the word spread.

          “I’ve been looking for it for two weeks,” said Cristina Ramos. “I was told that they had some here and now I’m in line.”

          Economists say Venezuela’s shortages stem from price controls meant to make basic goods available to the poorest parts of society and the government’s controls on foreign currency.

          “State-controlled prices – prices that are set below market-clearing price – always result in shortages. The shortage problem will only get worse, as it did over the years in the Soviet Union,” said Steve Hanke, professor of economics at Johns Hopkins University.

          President Nicolás Maduro, who was selected by the dying Hugo Chávez to carry on his “Bolivarian revolution”, claims that anti-government forces, including the private sector, are causing the shortages in an effort to destabilise the country.

          The government this week announced it also would import 760,000 tonnes of food in addition to the 50m rolls of toilet paper.

          Commerce minister Alejandro Fleming blamed the shortage of toilet tissue on “excessive demand” built up as a result of “a media campaign that has been generated to disrupt the country”.

          Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/05/toilet_paper_shortage_in_venezuela_due_to_excessive_demand_says_minister.html#ixzz2TUf5hI8H
          Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

  41. Self Regulation of Science Doesn’t Work
    By Wesley J. Smith
    May 14, 2013 7:32 PM


    How often we are told by “the scientists” that those outside the field have no business telling them what to–and more particularly, what not–to do. And yet, again and again and again, we learn that some scientists refuse to restrain themselves.

    A new story in Slate about scientists making human/animal hybrids is a case in point. From, “Manimal Rights,” by Daniel Engber:

    But the regulations try to draw the line at full hybrids–where animal eggs are fertilized with human sperm or vice-versa. And they also ban the use of chimeric animals with human brains. These aren’t right-wing talking points so much as common ethical intuitions. It’s OK to mess with a creature’s “simple” parts–the plumbing in its gut, let’s say–but we’re risking moral crisis when we start to humanize its neural tissue. Nonpartisan expert commissions have reached the same conclusion. After two years studying the issue, the British Academy of Medical Sciences released a report in 2011 that found people would be uneasy over interspecies mergers that looked or acted human or had a human-like brain.

    Yes, restraint is so “right wing.” But here’s the punch line: Some scientists don’t give a fig:

    Yet experiments like these are going forward just the same. In just the past few months, scientists at the University of Wisconsin and the University of Rochester have published data on their human-animal neural chimeras. For the Wisconsin study, researchers injected mice with an immunotoxin to destroy a part of their brains–the hippocampus–that’s associated with learning, memory, and spatial reasoning. Then the researchers replaced those damaged cells with cells derived from human embryos. The cells proliferated and the lab chimeras recovered their ability to navigate a water maze.

    For the Rochester study, researchers implanted newborn mice with nascent human glial cells, which help support and nourish neurons in the brain. Six months later, the human parts had elbowed out the mouse equivalents, and the animals had enhanced ability to solve a simple maze ;and learn conditioned cues. These protocols might run afoul of the anti-hybrid laws, and perhaps they should arouse some questions. These chimeric mice may not be human, or even really human, but they’re certainly one step further down the path to Algernon. It may not be so long before we’re faced with some hairy bioethics: What rights should we assign to mice with human brains?

    None. But let’s not get into that now. The real question is when are we going to enforce the regulations with sharp teeth? Do we need to criminalize these experiments to get scientists to stop? Because when we say, “ban ” certain kinds of experiments, we are pejoratively labeled as “anti science,” and that we should trust “the scientists” not to stray too far afield.

    Talk is cheap. The truth is, I think many scientists oppose any permanent and meaningful restraints–on themselves and each other. If I am right, society will have to forcefully take matters into its own hands.


  42. Human Cloning is Here!
    By Wesley J. Smith
    May 15, 2013 12:04 PM

    The world just changed. An international consortium of scientists have announced that they have successfully cloned human beings using the process that led to Dolly the sheep. They were able to develop four cloned embryos in a dish to the ”blastocyst” stage, the point in time when an embryo can be implanted in a uterus or destroyed for stem cells. The scientists here did the latter.

    This is huge news–reproduction as replication. The door is now open to the development of Brave New World technologies such as genetic engineering and the birth of cloned babies. As I wrote in my book on these issues, Consumer’s Guide to a Brave New World:

    We can pursue biotechnology to treat disease and improve the human condition, while retaining sufficient humility and self-restraint to keep ourselves from endangering the intrinsic value of human life. Or, we can hubristically rush onto the very anti-human path warned against by Aldous Huxley, driven by our thirst for knowledge, vast profits, and obsession with control and vastly expanded life spans.

    These issues are too important to be “left to the scientists.” Nor can we afford to allow the marketplace to determine what is right and what is wrong. The stakes are too high, the potential impact on each and every one of us too profound, to remain passive and indifferent to the decisions that are to be made. It is our duty to participate in the crucial cultural and democratic debates over biotechnology. The human future, quite literally, depends on it.

    I will write more extensively about this shortly. In the meantime, hold on to your hats–the culture wars just got more intense and divisive.

    Let the Cloning Obfuscation Begin
    By Wesley J. Smith
    May 15, 2013 4:52 PM

    Now that human cloning is upon us, look for many scientists and their camp followers (or ignorant reporters) to mislead about what the technology entails. Human SCNT creates human embryos through asexual means. It does not create stem cells. To obtain cloned stem cells, the embryos have to be nurtured and maintained in a dish for about 10 days, destroyed, and the stem cell lines derived.

    But don’t look for the embryo part to make many stories. Early case in point, a story by Loren Grush on FNC:

    In a major medical breakthrough, researchers at the Oregon National Primate Research Center (ONPRC) have for the first time ever successfully converted human skin cells into embryonic stem cells–via a technique called nuclear transfer. The research has major implications for the future of medical treatments, as many believe embryonic stem cells are the key to treating damaged cells lost through injury or illness. According to various medical researchers, stem cell therapy has the potential to treat anything from heart disease and spinal cord injuries to major neurological diseases, like Parkinson’s disease and multiple sclerosis.

    Through a common laboratory method known as somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), ONPRC scientists, along with researchers at Oregon Health & Science University, essentially swapped the genetic codes of an unfertilized egg and a human skin cell to create their new embryonic stem cells…The combination of the egg’s cytoplasm and the skin cell’s nucleus eventually grows and develops into the embryonic stem cell.

    False! Repeat after me: The unfertilized egg is not turned into stem cells. Rather, in the same cloning process as resulted in Dolly the sheep, it becomes an embryo, which is destroyed to obtain the cells. Moreover, the process is hardly common. In fact, this is the first time SCNT has worked in humans. That’s why it’ a big story!

    The human cloning issue is going go be a Mt. Everest of ethical contention. If we are going to discuss this rationally, we need accurate information from the scientists and the media. I plan to hold both to account in this regard going forward.

    Cloning Obfuscation 2
    By Wesley J. Smith
    May 16, 2013 3:12 PM

    The junk biology is flying in the media’s descriptions of the now accomplished human cloning. This next example comes from the Wall Street Journal’s Gautam Naik. From the ridiculously titled, “Experiment Brings Human Cloning One Step Closer:”

    Scientists have used cloning technology to transform human skin cells into embryonic stem cells, an experiment that may revive the controversy over human cloning. The researchers stopped well short of creating a human clone. But they showed, for the first time, that it is possible to create cloned embryonic stem cells that are genetically identical to the person from whom they are derived.

    NO. THEY EXPLICITLY CREATED A HUMAN CLONE! That’s what SCNT cloning does; creates a cloned embryo. A cloned embryo–like a natural embryo–is an individual organism, a member of its (in this case, human) species.

    Once the SCNT is done, the cloning is over. After that, the question becomes not whether to clone, but what to do with the embryo that was created through the cloning process. These scientists destroyed the embryos and derived stem cell lines.

    In fact, don’t take my word for it. Let’s have the authors of the paper describe it. From the Cell paper:

    Most embryos…formed one or two pronuclei at the time of removal from TSA, whereas a slightly higher portion of embryos cleaved…suggesting that some SCNT embryos did not exhibit visible pronuclei at the time of examination… Most cleaved embryos developed to the eight-cell stage…but few progressed to compact morula…and blastocyst..stages. Activation of embryonic genes and transcription from the transplanted somatic cell nucleus are required for development of SCNT embryos beyond the eight-cell stage…Therefore, these results are consistent with the premise that our modified SCNT protocol supports reprogramming of human somatic cells to the embryonic state.

    Media: Get it right, or don’t get it at all!


    • Just A Citizen says:


      Please don’t hate me for this…………..BUT…………….

      What if the continued existence of Homo Sapiens requires us to modify our biology to withstand prolonged space travel and colonization of other worlds??

      Should we be prevented from this.

      • Hate you-I put this stuff up here so people will talk about the pros and cons-I find it interesting and I think it’s important that man considers the consequences of what we are doing before we overstep and can’t undo it. As far as your question-I think how we do something matters. If the how is based on evil-then we should work to find another way. But something we shouldn’t do is lie about the reality of what the scientists are doing-This article is claiming they are lying-now all you science minded people I hope will help to confirm or disprove that claim. And I would love to get people’s opinions on the right or wrong of the issue too.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I agree, the how and why all matter.

          So I don’t have any serious issues with this research to the point they are not killing people to carry them out.

          This, unfortunately, leads us back to WHEN does a “person” first come to exist. Looks like this debate is going to continue but possible take new turns.

          The irony of this and another article I just read on HP about a kid being charged with murder for tricking his girlfriend into taking abortion pills. The irony? I just ended a running one week dialogue with a woman on Huff Po over when does a Human Being come to exist.

          I gave it up because she continued with strange irrational side trips. Like equating hangnails to humans because they contain human DNA. You get the idea.

          Anyway, the eventuality of creating and developing humans outside the womb came up. I was called crazy, among a couple of other things.

          As for the Con’s of this research?? How about Planet of the Apes…………………. 🙂

          • Oh yeah, I know what you mean-Got into the same type of conversation about life starting at conception and people started screaming, then that means masturbation should be outlawed because sperm and also unfertilized eggs are obviously life too. No, not obvious at all!! Oy vey!!!

        • gmanfortruth says:

          There is no doubt that human cloning has already happened. If they can clone a goat, they can clone a human. What I find interesting, how would a clone of me, starting today as a newborn, be different than I am now at my age? While the looks may be the same, the mind and thinking would be much different due to a different upbringing and education.

          Cloning is not robotics so to speak, even a cloned me would likely be much different when he reaches my age. I do not fear the technology, but far too many will want a “mini me”, only to be disappointed.

          • I think the answer to your question has already been answered by looking at identical twins-they aren’t the same and they are brought up in basically the same environment, most of the time.

            I cannot find any reason to clone people-we already have a very pleasurable way to produce life. So the reasoning behind cloning is to destroy life in order to accomplish something else-it seems contradictory to destroy life in order to improve life-which makes me believe the beginning point is based on an evil concept-there really isn’t any argument that the embryo isn’t life-the argument is that it hasn’t reached personhood. Then one moves onto how this process will be used and the possible consequences are scary. They are using woman as egg making factories now. they are using them as baby making factories. They are harvesting organs from people who decide to commit suicide in other Countries. Science is getting scary-hard to look at these things and not see the inhuman consequences that are already happening to support their actions. And we haven’t even looked at the possible unintended consequences of messing with the genetic foundation of human life.

  43. gmanfortruth says:

    If anyone wonders why Leftists are totally moronic and Anti-American, here is an example: http://www.prisonplanet.com/d-c-moves-to-force-gun-owners-to-buy-prohibitive-liability-insurance.html

    Two things that the left wing assholes should know, I will not register my guns, and I will not buy insurance to be “permitted” to own one. You assholes have no power to permit me to do anything. This is why I have a growing hate for the Left. UGH! 👿

  44. gmanfortruth says:


    Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla. said last week that he believes that the Obama administration is attempting to “dry up the market” and deprive gun owners of bullets.

    As we recently reported, the Department of Homeland Security has announced plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

    Inhofe has introduced legislation into the Senate that would limit such stockpiling of bullets by federal agencies.

    Maybe people should start thinking that it may be to deprive the cops, not the people. If the local LEO’s don’t have ammo, it’s hard to protect the citizens, from govt. 🙄

  45. What she says:

    Scandalous Hat Trick

    Mr. President, when it rains it pours, but most Americans hold their own umbrellas. Today in the Rose Garden you dismissed the idea of a Special Counsel to investigate the IRS scandal. With that, your galling political hubris shined bright in the midst of today’s dark clouds.

    Mr. President, how can we trust your Justice Department to conduct an independent investigation when there is a systemic violation of the Hatch Act throughout your administration?

    Surely you are aware that the Hatch Act prevents certain federal employees from engaging in political activity. Specifically, it’s illegal for these federal employees to engage in action in support of or in opposition to a political party, a candidate for partisan political office, or a partisan political group.

    Yet that is exactly what’s happened within the IRS, the Justice Department, and in the Benghazi cover-up. This scandalous hat trick is on your watch. It is not believable that you knew nothing about Obama administration actions in dealing with these scandals. And in regards to Benghazi, when you should have taken appropriate action to save American lives – for instance by calling in the Marines – you were AWOL. Just weeks before the election your team scrubbed the Benghazi talking points in 12 different versions, lied to the American people about some YouTube video being to blame for the deaths of brave Americans who put our country first, and you prove Michael Barone right when he writes, “What actually happened in Benghazi was out of sync with the Obama campaign line.” That’s why you all did what you did. Pure raw politics were at play during a horrific time of loss.

    For more evidence of Hatch Act violations right under your nose, simply consider DOJ’s “massive and unprecedented intrusion” into the free press. Do you think they picked up some political talk when tapping the phones in the House press gallery?

    Your team is out of control. Those who cannot remember the past and learn from it are doomed to repeat it, and that is exactly what is happening. Look back exactly 40 years ago this week and apply that disheartening chapter of American history to the team you’ve chosen and lead today.

    Some of us warned America; we cautioned voters in 2008 that a community organizer with no executive experience and no sense of accountability would be a very poor choice for the nation’s top management position.

    Mr. President, you said today that you have “complete confidence” in the Attorney General. America doesn’t. Eric Holder needs to appoint an unbiased Special Counsel to investigate the illegal political action of this administration. And then Eric Holder needs to resign.

    Most Americans see ominous dark clouds looming beyond the White House Rose Garden, Mr. President. They’ll roll away only when light is shined on the Obama administration’s antics, and America will only recover when you cease avoiding responsibility in this mission of yours to fundamentally transform America. For that to happen, the press had better learn from their experiences of being duped and provide a deserving public fairer, more intelligent coverage.

    Speaking of coverage, glad you finally called in the Marines… shame it was just to hold your umbrella.

    – Sarah Palin

  46. Seems that there are people claiming there was no longer any security issues attached to the leak about Yemen. No grave danger to the people. If true-this puts a new spin on the actions of Obama’s DOJ.

    WaPo: CIA asked AP not to expose Yemen terror plot bust until White House was ready to crow about it publicly

    posted at 2:01 pm on May 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

    The whole point of Holder’s presser on Tuesday, I thought, was to stress that the DOJ had to take extraordinary action in subpoenaing the AP’s phone records because the leak itself was so extraordinary. The clear impression was that the AP’s story had put the public in danger by compromising operations in Yemen, therefore the DOJ had to go the extra mile in finding out which national-security official had blabbed. Direct quote from Holder:

    “I’ve been a prosecutor since 1976, and I have to say that this is among, if not the most serious – it’s in the top two or three – most serious leaks that I’ve ever seen,” Holder added. “It put the American people at risk. And that is not hyperbole.”

    Fast-forward to today. Was the public ever actually at risk? Why, no, says WaPo. In fact, the AP held the story for days so as not to jeopardize U.S. counterterror ops, and only went ahead and published after the CIA assured them that there was no longer a risk. Nothing was compromised. Maybe Holder simply meant that the leak could have put the public at risk had the AP published right away, but WaPo seems to have another theory about why the White House was so angry afterward:

    For five days, reporters at the Associated Press had been sitting on a big scoop about a foiled al-Qaeda plot at the request of CIA officials. Then, in a hastily scheduled Monday morning meeting, the journalists were asked by agency officials to hold off on publishing the story for just one more day.

    The CIA officials, who had initially cited national security concerns in an attempt to delay publication, no longer had those worries, according to individuals familiar with the exchange. Instead, the Obama administration was planning to announce the successful counterterrorism operation that Tuesday…

    Now, some members of Congress and media advocates are questioning why the administration viewed the leak that led to the May 7 AP story as so grave.

    The AP was prepared to publish on May 2, 2012, the one-year anniversary of the Bin Laden killing, but held off at the CIA’s request for security reasons. A few days later, there were no more security reasons — but there was a political reason:

    When the journalists rejected a plea to hold off longer, the CIA then offered a compromise. Would they wait a day if AP could have the story exclusively for an hour, with no government officials confirming it for that time?

    The reporters left the meeting to discuss the idea with their editors. Within an hour, an administration official was on the line to AP’s offices.

    The White House had quashed the one-hour offer as impossible. AP could have the story exclusively for five minutes before the White House made its own announcement. AP then rejected the request to postpone publication any longer.

    Am I understanding that correctly? The CIA went on bargaining with the AP after the security worries had evaporated, purely in the interest of preventing the administration from being scooped on its glorious “plot foiled” announcement the next day? (John Brennan ended up on “Good Morning, America” the next morning to crow about the intel victory.) And when the AP didn’t comply — even though it had been, apparently, entirely cooperative up to that point — the DOJ went hunting for its phone records without so much as a polite request first? Also, who was the “administration official” in the White House that couldn’t wait more than five whole minutes after the news broke for Team Obama to take credit, six months out from an election?

    The Right Sphere, writing about this same story, comments, “Stealing the Obama administration’s thunder is now grounds for secret subpoenas on the press.” What’s going on here?

    Update: To repeat a point made above, and needless to say, it’s perfectly defensible to pursue a leaker even if the leak didn’t end up jeopardizing national security. No harm was done this time thanks to the AP’s discretion, but the same leaker might come back to bite U.S. intelligence in the future. The real questions here are (1) why was the CIA bargaining for more time with the AP after the national-security threat had passed, (2) why was the mysterious White House official so determined not to give the AP a scoop of more than five minutes, despite their cooperation in holding the story, and (3) why wasn’t the AP asked for its phone records first before a subpoena was filed? I understand why the DOJ might not want to tip them off, but they’d been agreeable to the CIA in not publishing on May 2. There was no accommodation at all that could be made with them, even in the form of prompt notice?


  47. FLPatriot,
    You posted this last weekend:

    FLPatriot says:
    May 11, 2013 at 8:08 pm
    This is the kind of hypocrisy that makes me mad, please explain to me why it does not make you mad Todd or charlie?

    And if you only answer is because a republican did something similar, save it… those kind of excuses have worn out their welcome.

    I responded and explained the context of Clinton’s comments, but you never responded. Did my answer satisfy you and you now understand?

    I’m also curious where you found that picture, and if there is evidence that Clinton actually made that statement? I did a lot of searches and couldn’t find any references to Clinton making that statement.

    Any response now? Or am I expecting too much?

  48. FLPatriot,
    You did post this response:

    FLPatriot says:
    May 13, 2013 at 7:05 am
    ”It started with the Birthers,” Actually the was Democrat Hillary Clinton that started the birther thing and MSNBC that keeps investigating it.
    “And nobody has been caught lying yet – at least in the real world.” Only those blinded by loyalty have not seen the evidence of the cover up.

    Yes, Clinton first made the Birther claim, but I didn’t say who first started it, but that was the first (or at least one of the first) scenarios the right tried to use against Obama.

    Only those blinded by loyalty have not seen the evidence of the cover up

    I wonder how you feel about the emails the White House release on Benghazi Wednesday, and the evidence that Republicans doctored the Benghazi emails they released last week?

    Does that change your feelings on Benghazi? Or are you blinded by loyalty (or maybe hatred of Obama?) and do not see this evidence?

    Are you sure you “don’t care about party politics”?

    Be careful, there is a “commandment” involved here!! 😉

    • Todd…..really?……doctored emails? I researched this pretty thoroughly…….it is nothing but another “blame Bush”………….smokescreen. It is a deflection…nothing more. All 25,000 e mails need to be released with NO redacting. The truth will then be known…..good or bad.

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