Arrest John McCain!

I was bothered by Nancy Pelosi meeting with Syria a few years back while she was Speaker of the House & Bush was president.  The President sets US foreign policy and has a Secretary of State and Ambassadors to manage that task for him.  Plain and simple, it is improper for a sitting senator or congressman to meet with foreign power in the middle of a civil war without the president’s approval or at his request.  It should be a criminal act that would result in his loss of office at the least.  It looks to me like pure politics, the Republicans sit back and criticise Obama for the thousands of lives lost there and America’s inaction.  They are trying to goad him into acting, expecting poor results and resulting political disaster to hammer him with….After Benghazie, how much more ammo could they need?

And this is another potential Viet Nam or Korea that we would do well to avoid.  Here we are sitting home on our front porch & down the street aPhoto pit bull & rottweiler  are fighting in a neighbor’s yard.  What good will come to us by reaching in between these two?  Is either dog going to thank us?   More likely, both will turn on us and chew us up!  Republicans seem to be wanting to become active in this fight.  Obama has shown interest also & looks to have been a silent player supplying weapons thru the now deceased Ambassador Stevens.  Consider how Libya turned out for the US.  Why expect anything different in Syria?  Also consider this will put us in conflict with Russia.  What could we possibly gain that would make it worthwhile to the US?

I think McCain & Republicans have the worldview that unless America keeps the “peace” in some areas, we will someday find ourselves facing another superpower in a world war.  Both Russia & China(2) seem intent on expanding their influence.  Both also seem to be intent on gaining natural resources such as oil & natural gas, especially offshore regions not yet being exploited.(1)  And finally, both are using the threat of military force to stake their claims.  Who but the United States would dare to challenge either in a military confrontation?  What better way to improve their odds than to keep America tangled up fighting in the Middle East?

(Reuters) – Russia plans to resume nuclear submarine patrols in the southern seas after a hiatus of more than 20 years following the break-up of the Soviet Union, Itar-Tass news agency reported on Saturday, in another example of efforts to revive Moscow’s military.

The plan to send Borei-class submarines, designed to carry 16 long-range nuclear missiles, to the southern hemisphere follows President Vladimir Putin’s decision in March to deploy a naval unit in the Mediterranean Sea on a permanent basis starting this year.

“The revival of nuclear submarine patrols will allow us to fulfill the tasks of strategic deterrence not only across the North Pole but also the South Pole,” state-run Itar-Tass cited an unnamed official in the military General Staff as saying.

I do agree with what I see as the “McCainthink” that Russia may be using Syria and it will not be “good” for the US.  I cannot see any threat at this time, so see no need for us to become involved.  We tried the Republican approach in Afghanistan & Iraq, won the wars, lost the peace.  We tried the progressive method in Egypt and Libya with less American lives lost, but where is the prize at the end?  Where are the grateful people praising America & our soldiers who fought and died for them?  What is the worst thing that can happen if the US stays out of ALL Middle East conflicts?  Israel may fall.  A new Ottoman Empire may arise (3), perhaps with Iran the center of power.  If we step back, the other players in that region will have to step forward and control their fate.   Turkey and Saudi Arabia could counter Iran, but prefer to use America as their shield.  How is that “good” for us?  What nationality were most of the 9/11 hijackers?  And if Iran becomes the Middle East “super power” and unites all these fractions under one banner,  is that “bad” for the US?  At least then we would have a solid target instead of these shadow organizations to have a real showdown with and a war that could be won.

Now excuse me while I contradict myself.  I would support Israel.  Mainly with weapons support and financial.  Why?  Why do I say not to meddle but then advocate meddling?  I cannot see a future where America will be allowed to live in peace.  9/11 happened,  as did the Boston massacre.  Muslim extremists are fighting a war against any & all who do not submit to their sect of Islam.  We are willing to peacefully coexist with them.   So is Israel, the United Kingdom, Russia, China, Spain, France….but they are not willing to live with us in peace unless we are slaves.  And they control nations with armies.  Maybe it’s bias, I am sorta a Christian and feel loyalty to the Jews, but I think it is in the US’s interest to support Israel.  They are fighting for their survival, every day.  When they are not fighting, it’s because their enemies are taking a breather and re-loading.  The best thing for Israel would be for the USA to be very active in the Middle East and attract some attention away from them.  The best thing for the US is to let any and all battles to be fought over their and not here.  A million or so Muslim fanatics want to die fighting for there cause.  It would give me great pleasure if they did die, as soon as possible, so the rest of us can try to live with a neighbor that mows his lawn at 9:30 at night.  I can live with the nightmower a lot easier than the killorenslavetheworld guy….  But it would be a lot easier if he decided to kill all the Israelis first, since it’s a long-boat ride and airplane food must be made to offend everyone, so with just us stepping out of the spotlight and giving Israel, not Egypt, F16’s, it’s a win/win for the US.

(1)  http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-russia-arctic-idUSBRE91Q11F20130227

(2)http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

(3)http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/bring_back_the_ottoman_empire.html

Worth reading..http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/political_islams_fight_for_control_and_failed_us_policy_in_the_middle_east.html#ixzz2UnTYHHCM

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Comments

  1. gmanfortruth says:

    Good article LOI and a welcome one with a very vast subject that can be discussed. Here’s my take on the Syrian issue. Qatar wants a LNG pipeline that can feed Europe at some point. Russia has that business and doesn’t want to give it up. Where does the U.S. come in? Simple, protect the Petrodollar. With certain guarentee’s by these Middle East nations, coupled with keeping China away from Libyan oil, is a desperate attempt to do so. The whole issue with Iran is more of the same. That one is easy to figure out.

    I would love to hear D13’s take on all of this. I’m sure he has an interesting amount of knowledge on it 🙂

    • Good article LOI and I would agree with you. Would like to see us withdraw from that part of the world as much as possible. Keep our military strong for homeland defense. Unfortunately, I see the military being decimated in preference for a strong Department of Homeland Security that seems to be more sympathetic to radical muslims than rights of US citizens.

      • PS – John McCain makes me ill.

      • Thanks G! & Kathy. On Fox this morning they were praising McCain for bravely meeting with the rebels. I can agree is was brave. Doesn’t change the fact he should not have done it. He did loose in 08′.

  2. Just A Citizen says:

    When I first heard of McCain’s stunt I was driving. My instinct caused me to react much the same, hang the SOB, he’s finally gone to far, etc, etc. After all, I didn’t approve of such stunts when the Dem’s pulled them on Bush.

    But then my brain stared to work, overcoming the instinctive. I remembered that NO, NONE as in NADA, US elected Reps. go into another country, let alone a war zone, without the White House knowing in advance and without the Administration helping facilitate the trip.

    It took a few days but the White House finally admitted they KNEW in ADVANCE about McCain’s trip. I am guessing that while he was ripping on Obama’s strategy he was also carrying a message from and then to Mr. Obama.

    I still think he had no business pulling this visit and then using it to wedge himself between the POTUS and those STATE and DOD are working with. Or to use it as a chance to publicly challenge the President while overseas.

    He has every right to criticize the policy here at home.

    As for McCain’s view on the policy matters themselves! The USA is suffering the same PAIN and MISERY from the good people of Arizona re-electing this schmuck as we are from the good people of Nevada sending Harry Reid back to Washington.

    As for Israel, I suggest we simply TRADE with them. That is trade in non weapons. They can use the profits to purchase whatever weapons they want from someone else. Of course we will probably have sold the weapons to the someone else.

    OK, lets get serious on the issue. One of the questions we must deal with regarding our role in the world is; Do we enter into ALLIANCES with other nations? Do we sign treaties that commit us in some way to help protect our “Allies”?

    If a nation state is to be trusted and admired in the world, don’t others have to be able to trust that nation to keep its word, or to help when needed?

    While George Washington’s speech rings just as true today about being friends to all and enemies of none, the fact was that it was the FRENCH who pulled his butt out of the fire and allowed us to send the Brits packing. They weren’t the only “foreign” aid we received either.

    If we are to be a nation of traders living under the banner of Freedom, Liberty and Justice, then how to we behave in a world where other nations are trying to undermine these values. Where they may be undermining the nations where we trade?

    I don’t disagree with LOI’s summary of the Middle East and the Jihadi sect. But I think our action, reaction or what have you should be based on the principles of our TOTAL and COMPLETE foreign policy. It should not be based on reducing our exposure to conflict if we believe we actually have an interest in the region.

    I think it is the purpose of our total policy that needs new evaluation. Today on HP the headline was that China won Iraq. Because while we take the fire, literally, the Chinese simply moved into Iraq, accepted the Iraqi demands and set up shop BUYING all the oil they could.

    Maybe there is something to be learned in the Chinese method! Or maybe not.

    • JAC,

      Great post! I have not seen anything from McCain or the WH that says he went with their blessings or permission, but you may be right. If so, then I think Obama is playing McCain & the GOP for the idiots they are, “fool me once” was so long ago.

      I think selling and even giving arms to Israel is in our interest but agree we need to establish a foreign policy on what we want with every country we have relations with. Consider the Saudi’s, are they “friends”? They will sell us oil and take our money. They will allow us to police the ME to a degree. But how can we ever consider them a true friend or ally? They are a Muslim nation. Their population would be happy to see the USA destroyed. Same for Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iran, (Iraq?)etc….

      On the plus side, they usually have us a little further down on their chit list than Israel. Since Israel usually is their primary target, help them so they expend their efforts over there. Israel has no choice but to defend themselves, so will take the weapons out of necessity. If Israel survives, it’s good for us. If Israel falls, we get moved higher up on the list. Maybe we can point them at Spain of France next?

  3. Russian policy regarding the conflict in Syria is a “puzzlement.” In October 2012 Russia vetoed a resolution critical of Assad’s use of force. And on January 31, 2013, Russia thwarted an Arab plan calling on Assad to resign in favor of his deputy.

    Sergei Lavrov, Russian Foreign Minister, stated on January 31, 2013 that “we are not friends or allies of President Bashar Assad.” Russia was acting for the sake of the Syrians and was concerned to stop the suffering in the country. Lavrov did make clear, however, that Russia would only accept the removal of Assad if this were the decision of an agreement between the regime and the rebels.

    Again, on June 1, 2013 Russia blocked a resolution in the UN Security Council that was critical of the force used by Syrian troops and the Hezbollah in their siege of the Syrian town of Qusair. Russia has continually opposed international sanctions on the Assad regime and vetoed three Security Council resolutions to that effect.

    From an objective point of view, Russia has particular interests in Syria. Its arms sales to Syria have now amounted to over $5 billion, in previous exports and current contracts. Other trade ties, now about $2 billion, relate to Syrian imports of petroleum products, grain, timber, transport vehicles, and electrical equipment from Russia. Russia has its only naval base in the Mediterranean at the Syrian port city of Tartus, a base which since 2008 has become a permanent Russian one. It is the only Russian presence in the area since the fall of Moammar Gaddafi in Libya, which led to loss of Russian construction contracts and investments in Libyan oil and gas. For Russia the fall of Gaddafi was particularly disconcerting because it ended the possibility of building the gas pipeline, agreed to in 2011 by Syria, Iran, and Iraq, from Iran to Europe that would be managed by the Russian Gazprom.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/russia_up_in_the_air_over_syria.html#ixzz2VAQZlnB4

  4. I was reading the news this weekend and one question kept creeping to the front of my mind: How many lies must this president make before people loose trust in Democrats.

    But then it hit me, there is no limit to the amount of lies a Democrat can tell as no one trusts politicians anymore. Voters on the left do not trust the candidates they vote for and do not care about the character of those they vote for so there is no let down when they are exposed as lying thieves.

    The bottom line is that as long as the Democrats continue to push “socialism lite” and demonize capitalist pop culture sheeple will continue to support them. It really does come down to “the ends justify the means” with the left.

    How do you discredit a candidate when their supports care nothing for the morals of that candidate?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      FLP

      I certainly hope you are not saying that the Republicans have been much better in this regard!

      I’ll grant there may be some improvement with the Tea Party but in general it isn’t much different.

      Proof: How many cry for a balanced budget yet did not produce one when they could?

      • I agree JAC, but I am giving some leeway to the right as there is a change with the Tea Party voters. I get a sense that people on the right have started holding their candidates accountable when I do not see this on the left.

        Of course there are exceptions like John McCain and Mark Sanford. But the turn over in the GOP is a positive sign that good candidates can get a chance to be elected.

    • Interest, FLP, your take on socialism, etc. … I responded to a blog that was discussing Marxism in crime novels/Noir novels … here’s what I had to say:

      the quote I expounded on from the bog was this: “Both book and film show criminals as working stiffs, and so get to the real heart of the crime story.”

      I can’t tell you how many street guys I used to pal/work with were nothing more than working stiffs (myself included) … guys looking to pay their mortgages/rents/send their kids to a baseball game/buy Christmas presents/pay for 2 (or 3) households, etc … some had other options, most didn’t. They could eat shit from some company (via middle management, etc.) or they could take a risk (somebody say entrepreneur?) and do whatever they had to do … almost none of those guys wanted to climb the crime ladder (become made guys or anything else that brought on exposure) … many (like myself) were working 2nd legit jobs (or their criminal activities were 2nd jobs–but remember, hawking hats and umbrellas without a permit/license is considered criminal activity and I knew plenty of guys and gals doing exactly that on the street to earn enough to make their nut) … I had a union job for 10 years, but when my first marriage fell apart and I had to provide for 2 (and later 3 households, because my old man stopped paying my mother), I worked 2 and often 3 legit jobs and could barely make ends meet (working 7 days a week will burn you out faster than you think, and it will leave you one angry MF’er). It wasn’t rocket science for me to head where the money was. Once I could earn on the street, the chip I already had on my shoulder grew (as regards working in the legit world). My first novel, Eddie’s World, is mostly fiction … except the guy who gets fired (for a different reason than in the novel) decides to take some robin hood revenge (because the owner was an arrogant piece of work and Eddie had the balls to and desire to put one up the arrogant SOB’s ass). Eddie’s legit job was word processing … enough said.

      Once I left the crime side of things (and the money–and it was a very tough adjustment financially), I returned to a slave situation (it is what it is). I don’t kid myself … if/when I leave this job, I have to find another just like it. That’s what I’m free to do.

      Nobody in America should be shocked at what people do to survive. We continue to allow 1% of the population to gather OUR collective wealth off OUR backs, and yep, shit’ll happen. And, yes, literary fiction is just another genre (no matter who says it isn’t) … and as much as I enjoyed Jonathan Franzen’s Freedom, it wasn’t what I’d call a general reflection of America. Franzen himself claimed “it’s possible you are freer if you accept what you are and just get on with being the person you are, than if you maintain this kind of uncommitted I’m free-to-be-this, free-to-be-that, faux freedom” … yeah, right, exactly … in a capitalist economic system, the vast majority of us are free to be slaves.

      Scalisi, et al, in Eddie Coyle were after big scores that might allow them to coast for a few years (to be hedge fund managers?) … Eddie was looking to pay his mortgage and to stay out of the joint (so he could continue to pay his mortgage) … I don’t know many hedge fund managers, but I continue to know many more in Eddie Coyle’s economic situation (behind the eight ball), even if they aren’t aware of it yet.

      Many crime novels offer a more accurate depiction of America today (whether they intended to or not) than does much of literary fiction (probably why I enjoy (and am rereading again) something like Last Exit to Brooklyn) and have yet to reread Franzen.

      SUFA-ites … I’d be interested on your read of The Friends of Eddie Coyle … a crime fiction masterpiece (although to me it’s a literary masterpiece as well) … it’s a very short read (173 pages or so) and probably the best crime novel ever penned. I have a general idea of what you’ll say, but it would be interesting to hear your views on it.

      And by the way, FLP, genuine socialists have nothing in common with the American Democratic Party … we seet it as nothing more than Republican light …

      • Send me an epub version and I will read and write a review of your book charlie, sounds interesting.

        • FLP, I “wish” it were my book. The Friends of Eddie Coyle, was written by George V. Higgins, an assistant DA in Boston for a while … I’m not sure if it’s available on kindle/ebook yet, but it should be. the movie version stars Robert Mitchum … you can probably google it and find it in whatever form that way.

      • “And by the way, FLP, genuine socialists have nothing in common with the American Democratic Party … we seet it as nothing more than Republican light …”
        I would have to disagree, there are some similarities and more are being developed every election. Much like the conservatives and Tea Party groups have chosen to infiltrate the GOP, I see those that support socialist agendas supporting the DNC and so far I would say the socialists are winning the race of converting a party to their desires.

        • To a very minor degree … and I’ll always suspect that has more to do with what the 1% will allow in the form of throwing bones to the masses … becuase the Democratic Party is no less corrupt than the Republican Party (and this particular president in particular–his Wall Street connections and the deal he gave them (continues to give them) is the exact opposite of what any self-respecting socialist would accept. Obama I and II (to most of us) is Bush iii and iv …

          • I think we agree almost 90% on the state of things in US politics then. Where we disagree is that you will continue to support “socialism lite” in the DNC in hopes that there will come a full socialist movement and I am forced to support the GOP in hopes that freedom loving patriots can oust the big government cronys.

            • Almost … I’ll vote green for now, never Democrat or Republican again (I had voted for Bush twice because I was fed up with the Dems after Clinton and figured, “what the hell” … but I also fell for the war rhetoric and having been from NY after 9-11, emotions got the best of me. That won’t happen again.

  5. I heard about the Democrats dream ticket for 2016: Anthony Weiner and Eric Holder.

    Weiner/Holder 2016!!!

  6. gmanfortruth says:

    As I have said before, the gang of 536 are on the same team. McCain did what the President wanted him to do. Now, all the sheeple Republicans will support whatever happens because of this action. This is about money, nothing else. The criminals in DC are just playing the same old shell game. Sadly, far to many will fall for the lies.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      In addition, if terrorists are our enemy, and the Syrian rebels are made up mostly of terrorists, isn’t McCain aiding the enemy? This action is either treason, or proof that our govt funds terrorists groups, as I have claimed many times. Regardless, this is very wrong.

  7. Bottom Line says:

    Muslim extremest didn’t do 9/11.

    Why would Muslims, after decades of being warred upon, purposely bring more war upon themselves from the world’s superpower? …because they’re envious and hate Americans for their ‘freedom’ ? …because they want to die for Allah and have 70 virgins?

    Bullshit.

    Who benefits?

    • I knew I liked BL … 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      BL

      And who exactly has been warring upon MUSLIMS for the past few decades??

      • Bottom Line says:

        Exactly!

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Sorry BL but the answer is NOBODY.

          The key is MUSLIMS as opposed to Arabs, Sunni, Paki, Afghani, etc, etc.

          NOBODY has waged a war on Muslims. And during this time period Muslim groups have killed more Muslims than any other nation/people.

          • Bottom Line says:

            Look at the shiny metal object with all the bells lights and whistles. Pay no attention to the hammer in the other hand.

            Muslims attacked the USA contrary to any reason, and so this and that country is going to be invaded? If it was a religious thing, then why were nations targeted instead of a religion? If it was about nations, then why not attack Saudi Arabia where the hijackers came from?

            Answer: …because it wasn’t about any of that.

            The buildings have been definitively proven to be brought down via explosives, but since they crashed planes into the buildings and told everyone that’s what did it, the answer is to molest people at the airport?

            People believe what they want to believe in spite of whatever logic proves otherwise. They will rationalize anything to protect their comfort zone. And while everyone was trying to rationalize a bunch of chaotic irrational bullshit, people were and are being slaughtered and violated for entirely different reasons.

            It is apples and oranges.

            When you get a flat tire, do you fix your radiator?

            Do you cut your lawn by painting your house?

            Do you eat a salad to satisfy your craving for a nice juicy steak?

            Anything based and developed upon a false premise is also going to be false, as there is an increasing divergence between reality and the straw man the further you develop a perception or theory based upon said false premise.

            Reality: 2 + 2 = 4
            Progression of reality: 2 + 2 = 4 + 2 = 6 + 2 = 8 + 2 = 10…

            False premise: 2 + 2 = 5
            Progression of false premise: 2 + 2 = 5 + 2 = 7 + 2 = 9 + 2 = 11…

            This is how they get away with it. They supply a false premise and build upon it, exploiting every facet of human nature, it’s weaknesses and stupidity.

            It manifests itself into a complete mess whereby society justifies war because someone wants to control oil and make billions off of it and fancy toys to make everyone feel safer from the imaginary boogy-man.

            Snap – Snap – Snap – Wake up.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              BL

              Al Quiada trained and funded Arab operatives did 9/11. Al Quiada was IN AFGHANISTAN living under protection of the Taliban. Another fundamentalist Islamic group, by the way.

              So it would have been stupid to attack Saudi Arabia when the people who conducted the operation were located in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

              The NOBODY has proven that WTC was demolished by explosions. Only in the minds of those who started with that premise can this consist if absolute proof. Now review your math formula once again. See yourself in there?

              You statement was who was attacking Muslims. The answer is NOBODY. We were attacking the Taliban and Al Quiada and the Iraqi Sunni Govts. Some of them happen to be Muslims.

              Ever notice how NOBODY ever attacks Christians? Instead they are attacking Great Britain, Germany, Spain or the USA.

              • Bottom Line says:

                JAC,

                What happened was someone blew up the trade center, and the world was told anything the powers to be thought they could get away with in order to scare the hell out of everyone and justify an expansion of the US war machine.

                We were told by everyone from politicians and state officials to the MSM that it was everyone from Muslim terrorists to state sponsored terrorism.

                It was all a big fat lie mixed with just enough truth to make it plausible…a means to a strategic end.

                ” The NOBODY has proven that WTC was demolished by explosions. Only in the minds of those who started with that premise can this consist if absolute proof. Now review your math formula once again. See yourself in there? ”

                I never started with that premise. What I did do is change my mind after reviewing. The proof is everywhere except in the minds of people who refuse to see it.

                The math, the logic, the evidence, etc … is exactly what proves it irrespective of any intelligence reports.

                Physics doesn’t lie, JAC. People do. As difficult as it may be to consider such a thing, it is the reality of it.

            • You sir have lost your mind!

      • JAC … when you support regimes that keep people down (I’m talking the masses here) … oh, like, say, Pahlevi, Mubarik, Hussein (while he was fighting Iran), etc., etc., etc., the people behind held under water are probably going to consider you unfriendly … maybe even “warring” on them. And it isn’t just Muslims we do that to … we’ve doing it to many third world countries (including Cuba, all of South America, some countries in Southeast Asia (where there are plenty of Muslims) … unless you ignore our “influence” throughout the world, you have to admit we’ve probably pissed off a few people along the way.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Charlie

          I am fully aware of how the US foreign policy and actions have affected others affection towards us.

          It is easy to condemn the US for supporting some tyrant but you ignore the reality of the choices. This was the point of my longer post above.

          If you decide you will trade with anyone, then you MUST accept the leadership of that country, regardless of who it is. The left has cried for peaceful existence for decades, but then condemns the US for having peaceful relations with the WRONG people.

          Either we trade openly and are friends with all OR we select our friends on the basis of OUR OWN SELF INTEREST.

          • In other words, JAC, we reap what we sow … that’s all my point was … so when two kids decide to plant bombs in Boston (whether they were brainwashed or were truly being patriotic to their own cause), it shouldn’t surprise us. Yes, it was horrible and yes, we should do what we can to deter it from happening again, but so long as we bomb innocents overseas (our brand of terrorism via drones, the military, etc.), we can expect this kind of terror for a long time to come …

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Charlie

              When two kids, who live in America and who are NOT FROM THE AREA where we have supposedly harmed others, blow up people here then yes, we should be surprised.

              Their action has nothing to do with us “reaping what we sow”.

              I agree with your concept but it doesn’t always pass the smell test when it comes to particular examples. I raised this with BF a year or two ago when he was blaming the US for Iran’s behavior towards us.

              The problem with that claim is that it ignores the fact that Iran treats Russia with more respect YET Russia was messing with Iran long before the USA. So WHY do they hate us but not the Russians. And of course there is the little thing Russia did called Invade Afghanistan.

              Why haven’t the Russians been called our for their “War on Islam”??

              • When two kids, who live in America and who are NOT FROM THE AREA where we have supposedly harmed others, blow up people here then yes, we should be surprised.

                Let me “try” this … as I “understand it” (I have not dug any more deeply than what I read a few weeks ago), they came from Chechnya (where they were born). The older brother apparently returned there and had been radicalized (religiously).

                Their action has nothing to do with us “reaping what we sow”.

                Only if you ignore the religious angle. Apparently, once radicalized, they saw where they were living as a huge influence against their beliefs.

                I agree with your concept but it doesn’t always pass the smell test when it comes to particular examples. I raised this with BF a year or two ago when he was blaming the US for Iran’s behavior towards us.

                Oh, no, not me and BF agreeing !!!!!

                The problem with that claim is that it ignores the fact that Iran treats Russia with more respect YET Russia was messing with Iran long before the USA. So WHY do they hate us but not the Russians. And of course there is the little thing Russia did called Invade Afghanistan.

                Let’s look at this logistically. Chechnyn rebels have done MASSIVE harm to Russia (the school bombings/shootings a few years ago stand out in my mind). They have long resisted Russia … but these two kids were living here, where they probably felt they could do the greatest harm. I can’t get into their minds, but it makes perfect sense to me. They weren’t vetted enough here, at least not enough so they felt confident about what they were doing.

                Why haven’t the Russians been called our for their “War on Islam”??

                Again, I think they have … especially by Chechnyns radicalized by religion.

              • Could it be because the USA & Russia react differently to criticism? Insult us or hurt our feelings and we offer more money to make them like us. I don’t think The Ruski’s play that way, kinda like:

                One might ask whether this lesbian couple have gone to the halal market to order meat for their wedding party and inquire about getting that wedding cake with two bride figures on top.

                Still, the question exists for other gays across the U.S., angry at this Christian-owned bakery practicing its First Amendment rights: why haven’t other gays and lesbians wanting a wedding cake walked into Muslim-owned bakeries and attempted to place an order? Why are all the big, brave activists who find it easy to send the Kleins in Oregon insulting and menacing e-mails all of a sudden “champions of religious freedom and diversity” when it comes to Muslim-owned bakeries across the country? The obvious answer is that such a request would lead to an argument, if not a physical confrontation.

                Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/06/a_lesbian_couple_walks_into_a_muslim_bakery.html#ixzz2VBnQVBi0

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Charlie

              You make my point. Chechnya is not a place where the USA has been beating up on people or doing bad things. We actually tried undermining the Russian strangle hold there.

              But these Chechnyns conclude we are the bad guys, because of the Russian’s killing Muslims in Chechnya. Well that didn’t work so they rationalized (really what radicalized means in this case) America as the bad guy.

              I agree that there are Muslims trying to turn Chechnya into a Muslim issue. And there are radicals flowing there from around the middle east to participate. But notice how Iran does not call Russia out on this publically. Nor does Syria. Yet they claim it is the USA waging war on Islam.

              Yes, there is a RELIGIOUS angle. And that is also part of my point. THEY are going to use THEIR religion to rationalize hatred of the USA as long as we have anyone located anywhere in northern Africa, the middle east, southeast Asia and perhaps even in the Balkans. What comes after that I don’t know.

              We don’t have to actually be killing or harming anyone. All we have to do is be present and be friendly with whomever they decide is the next bad guy on their list.

              All of this is why I believe we should withdraw and build up intelligence, covert operations and a strong defensive stance. Short of destroying the region and taking complete control we have little chance of coming out ahead there.

              However, that does not mean that all of this is our fault or that 9/11 was the “chickens coming home to roost”. Our only SIN in that part of the world was supporting Israel, a nation that was created and supported by the UNITED NATIONS. So one has to ask, why did not the other nations that voted for Israel suffer the same designation as SINNER for this crime?

              • “So one has to ask, why did not the other nations that voted for Israel suffer the same designation as SINNER for this crime?”

                Because we’re the big dogs, JAC … the remaining super power … I see both sides of the argument. Religion is always used to justify one cause or another. It’s a mad, mad world, and so long as we’re regarded as the bullies on the block, we’ll suffer the consequences. It’s my beef with nationalism in general … every nation state pursues it’s national interest. Ours is perceived, rightly or wrongly (I happen to think mostly rightly) that it’s big money’s interest that cause us to stick our noses where it doesn’t belong. All empires eventual crumble for one reason or another …

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Bottom Line, and All, I agree with Bottom Line, 911 was bullshit. Bin Laden’s sect of Islam would not have allowed him such an act. A little research would have found that. Speaking of Bin Laden, how many times has he been killed? it’s 3 now for sure.

      WTC 7 was brought down by explosives within the building, that is easy to see on the video. Coincidently, the part of the pentagon that was hit was the very part where they were investigating the loss of 2 trillion dollars that was announced the day before. It was never mentioned again. 2 trillion just gone, imagine that. That’s just the beginning of the facts, there is plenty more.

      • Bottom Line says:

        Gman,

        I can sit here all month long and pick apart every detail about 9/11. There are sooooo many discrepancies. But of course, you know this, …so I would just be preaching to the choir.

        I know who did it, G. There are a few key elements that everyone missed. The only reason I caught them is because I happen to be in a unique position to see it.

        I dare not say. I don’t have to. They are inevitably busted…it is only a matter of time.

  8. Just A Citizen says:

    From AP report:

    “SANAA, Yemen — The military leader of al-Qaida’s Yemeni branch says Americans will not be safe unless their leaders respect the security of other nations and do not attack or oppress them.

    In a message addressed “to the American nation,” Qassim al-Rimi, commander of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, said: “your security is not achieved by despoiling other nations’ security or by attacking and oppressing them.””

    The US invaded Iraq, a nation where supposedly Al Qaida was not allowed to flourish. So of what concern is that? That country now has its own govt, so exactly what is the US doing to undermine its security?

    Afghanistan’s Govt allowed Al Qaida to exist and flourish within its borders. They attacked us for not invading anyone, but for simply having bases in Saudi Arabia at the express permission of the Govt there. So we retaliated by invading Afghanistatn and removing the Govt.

    But it is all OUR fault according to this wonderful person. I wonder what his rationalization for the violence his group spreads in YEMEN itself might be. Did we invade YEMEN? Did we undermine YEMENT security or are we “oppressing” people in YEMEN?

    You can always tell what the ethics and morality as well as actions of the radical left wingers are. Just listen to what they accuse others of doing.

  9. Just A Citizen says:

    So long as a concept such as “the public interest” (or the “social” or “national” or “international” interest) is regarded as a valid principle to guide legislation—lobbies and pressure groups will necessarily continue to exist. Since there is no such entity as “the public,” since the public is merely a number of individuals, the idea that “the public interest” supersedes private interests and rights, can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others.

    If so, then all men and all private groups have to fight to the death for the privilege of being regarded as “the public.” The government’s policy has to swing like an erratic pendulum from group to group, hitting some and favoring others, at the whim of any given moment—and so grotesque a profession as lobbying (selling “influence”) becomes a full-time job. If parasitism, favoritism, corruption, and greed for the unearned did not exist, a mixed economy would bring them into existence.

  10. Fun to watch the politicos and pundits with their spin. First, there’s the “no way, would be way too stupid to do something this political” approach as seen here:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/03/axelrod-plouffe-irs-scandal-way-too-stupid-to-be-political/

    • And then there’s the use of “overreach”. Watch and listen to how many use that approach. Also now, Issa, by telling the truth and calling Carney a paid liar, has given them some more juice to again, just put all this aside as it’s just getting nasty.

      They are so predictable.

    • I seem to remember them claiming the “mistakes” made in Benghazi was just them being stupid.

      I’ve been thinking about this for awhile-I don’t see Obama being impeached for the IRS scandal because I doubt he was stupid enough to have anything around that would tie him to it directly-Nixon taught people not to do that. But Benghazi-that I think could and should get him impeached-which is why the left are working so hard to make Benghazi a non issue.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        VH, the senate would never convict him. Big waste of time. Even if they did, do you want Biden as President?

        • Limbaugh is right on this one. The first black president impeached? Never. He could murder someone in broad daylight in front of 1,000 witnesses with the smoking gun in his hand and it won’t happen. I fear the protection stretches down to Holder too. These guys are not Nixon, that’s for sure. Worst part is they know it and are untouchable. Stay tuned for a lot more of the same. Used to use the catch phrase a lot, “the end of the world s we know it”. True here and not so funny anymore.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            The shame of it all is that if he gets away with everything, then they can’t hold future President’s accountable for the same actions. So, we are being forced to accept tyranny because the gang of 536 is corrupt. People died in Benghazi, the IRS scandal is a direct attack on his political enemies (and no one can tell me he didn’t know about it, and approve of it) and on and on.

            What I think you are saying, is that the Federal govt has finally crossed the line, the one where they are now above the law. The only solution is not a good one to think about, but likely the only one to fix the problem, violent Revolution. 🙄

            • White republicans or conservatives are always at risk. The democrats seem to be able to get away with 95% of everything and if you are black, a full 100%. Coleman Young, the previous three mayors of Newark, Charlie Rangel, Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and his son, all readily come to mind.

  11. 7th grader saves classmate from bully with knife, is punished for ‘playing hero’
    3:00 PM 06/03/2013

    A thirteen year-old Canadian, Briar MacLean, was reprimanded by school officials for potentially saving the life of one of his fellow classmates. After defending the victim from an armed student, the vice principal chastised MacLean, saying that he should have gotten a teacher involved instead of acting quickly.

    MacLean told the National Post that he was in a morning class in his middle school in Calgary when he saw a bully antagonizing another student. “He put him in a headlock, and I saw that,” he said.

    The fight escalated when MacLean “heard the flick, and I heard them say there was a knife.”
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    MacLean instinctively jumped and pushed the bully away from the other student and then continued about his day unfazed. However, later he was called into the office and not allowed to return to classes for the rest of the day.

    The vice principal called MacLean’s mother, Leah O’Donnell, saying that her son was involved in an incident where “he decided to ‘play hero’ and jump in.” The vice principal added that the school did not “condone heroics,” and that the proper course of action would have been to get a school administrator to handle it.

    O’Donnell said, “I asked: ‘In the time it would have taken him to go get a teacher, could that kid’s throat have been slit?’ She said yes, but that’s beside the point.”

    “What are they teaching them?” O’Donnell said. ”That when you go out into the workforce and someone is not being very nice to you, you have to tattle to your boss? You’re not going to get promoted that way.”

    O’Donnell expressed dismay at the vice principal’s comments.
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    “What are we going to do if there are no heroes in the world? There would be no police, no fire, no armed forces. If a guy gets mugged on the street, everyone is going to run away and be scared or cower in the corner. It’s not right,” she said.

    The Calgary school board has not commented on the incident except to confirm the bully has been suspended.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/03/7th-grader-saves-classmate-from-bully-with-knife-is-punished-for-playing-hero/#ixzz2VBdisDD0

    I’m thinking “bully” simply doesn’t fit these actions and the rest is just pitifull-“that’s not the point”. I have to wonder what is the point!

  12. Just A Citizen says:

    OK, time for a little break. Check out the line ups for the 1968 All Star Game. Look close and read the footnotes. I remember this game as the last that Mays AND Mantle played, although Mick just pinch hit. I should say pinch struck out. He and Mays both struck out as I recall near the end of the game. Six of the hardest biggest Swings I ever saw.

    If either had connected it would have shattered the dome.

    How would you like to have faced the starting pitching staff for either league? Great memories of the many men listed here.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/07091968.shtml

    • Look out. I’m way over excited here!! Cause look who’s on the AL team, count em. 4 DEEEEtroit Tigers… Wille Horton, Bill Freehan, Denny McLain, Don Wert, Add on Mickey Lolich ,Stormin Normin Cash, Al Kaline, Jim Northrup, Mickey Stanley John Hiller and Dick McAullife and you have a World Series Champ! Yessir, that year was the start of my love of baseball. I followed the box scores faithfully. EVERYDAY for years after 68. Of course George Kell and Ernie Harwell made the games fun to watch and listen to.

      Yep, that’s a mean 68 All Star roster. Carew, Yaz, Killebrew, Hank Aaron, Seaver, Bench, and you mentioned Mays and Mantle. Dang…those WERE the days.

      • “Yep, that’s a mean 68 All Star roster. Carew, Yaz, Killebrew, Hank Aaron, Seaver, Bench, and you mentioned Mays and Mantle. Dang…those WERE the days.”

        VH and I are in agreement … at least temporarily … I used to be a baseball fan first and foremost … but once they changed all the most important rules, moved the fences in with each new park, etc., I lost ALL interest. I refuse to even watch the game anymore … turn off ESPN when highlights come on … I follow a player or two (from the news only) on the Mets but mostly because I’m forced to … I hate what they did to this game … designated hitters? How absurd is that. Interleague play? Insane … moving the fences in … steroid era … and then they have the balls to charge insane prices (capitalism gone wild) … if I ever have the time again, I’ll play my Strat-O-Matic baseball game … I’d do that rather than go to any baseball game ever again … world series included. They can keep what they’ve made of this game.

  13. Just A Citizen says:

    From Tony Blair recently:

    “There is a problem within Islam – from the adherents of an ideology which is a strain within Islam,” he wrote. “We have to put it on the table and be honest about it. Of course there are Christian extremists and Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu ones. But I am afraid this strain is not the province of a few extremists. It has at its heart a view about religion and about the interaction between religion and politics that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies.”

    “At the extreme end of the spectrum are terrorists, but the world view goes deeper and wider than it is comfortable for us to admit. So by and large we don’t admit it,” he added.

  14. gmanfortruth says:

    JAC, you asked an interesting question earlier, this one “Why haven’t the Russians been called our for their “War on Islam”?? ”

    I believe that this is the difference in governments. Our Government needs a constant boogieman to scare the shit out of everyone so they can control us better. The Russians don’t have this problem, as they don’t have the freedoms we fight for everyday. The elders in Russia are still living under Communism, their boogieman wears a uniform with a red star on the shoulder.

    Oh yea, they don’t play the politically correct crap they is shoved up our asses everyday. 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      gman

      While there is a civil war of sorts in Chechnya if you look close you will see the Muslims don’t have the same rhetoric against the Russians as the USA. Despite the fact the Russians are NOT PC in their responses.

      Honestly, that whole side of the world is so complexly convoluted and screwed up I’m not sure we will ever know who is doing what to whom and for what real reason.

      Some of your stuff is probably pertinent, ie. oil/gas lines, etc, but so is the Poppy Trade and lord knows what else.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Shoot JAC, the only reason were still in Afghanistan is the poppies. The Qatar LNG lines are fact and have been written about numerous times. Both issues are not as important as “it’s all about money”. We can fix this, if folks are willing.

  15. JAC-You still watching Revolution-if you are- would you or wouldn’t you? I would

    • Didn’t expect that 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      V.H.

      Will have to get back to you. I record it and watch later in the week. But yes, have watched all of them so far.

      Another new favorite is Defiance and we are anxious for Falling Skies to start back up this coming weekend.

      • Okay, wish I could see your face when you watch it 🙂

        Love Falling Skies too-Defiance, I’m watching it-haven’t been overly impressed yet but feel it has potential so I’m still watching it.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          V.H.

          Agree with you on Defiance. Lil’ JAC loves it. I think he likes the funny looking people.

          The show is starting to develop a little more with the “outside” groups coming to light. Like that Republic with various coalitions. They never did a good job of explaining from the start how all these “different” alien groups got to earth.

          Like you, going to keep watching hoping for an improvement with a little more time.

  16. It wasn’t long ago that these meetings were a conspiracy theory. 125 of the 1% in one place at the same time. Yet no one takes advantage of this. http://www.infowars.com/amazon-and-google-chiefs-join-other-corporate-tax-avoiders-at-annual-bilderberg-confab/

    • Just A Citizen says:

      gman

      Maybe it is only a “conspiracy” to those who want to make it a conspiracy. Here is the home page for the group. Looks pretty much out in the open to me. Just because the Press doesn’t cover this doesn’t make it a conspiracy.

      The power elite have been meeting for decades. There are many groups of elites that meet and discuss and make plans. It has always been in plain view for anyone looking.

      So what is the real conspiracy?? Why would someone like Alex Jones keep pumping it as some conspiracy?

      http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.html

      And YES, the power elite do run the world. Because they are the power elite.

      Maybe we should pool all SUFA resources to create ONE person with enough money and power to get invited next year. Then we will know what was discussed. 🙂

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Actually, Bilderberg has been around for decades. They have mostly claimed to not exist, until the alternative media outed them, now they can’t hide anymore. In the long ago past, they did in fact claim to not exist.

  17. gmanfortruth says:

    SUFA, we have not really answered the main question. Should John McCain be charged with a crime for his support of the Syrian rebels?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      gman

      NO!

      Unless he is personally financing or shipping arms against some LAW then NO.

      His visit was known in advance and the State Dept helped with the logistics.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        P.S. He should be put out to pasture.

        But that is for the people of Arizona to take care of.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        JAC, so your saying that it’s OK to help the rebels, who are made up of members of various terrorist groups (much like Libya) that we are supposedly at war with? This would include Al-CIAda, whom they have already admitted to be part of the rebels in Syria and Libya. Interesting.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          gman

          Whether we should arm or help the rebels is a separate question from whether McCain violated a law that deserves ARREST.

          Former………………..NO

          Latter……………..NO

        • Not speaking for JAC but I need to butt in here…Careful G! He didn’t say he’s ok with it. He said McCain shouldn’t be charged. You’re using Buck’s playbook. A question gets asked, someone answers, Buck didn’t like the answer so he accused the person of saying something different. I hated when it went down like that. That’s half the problem of government..twisting words. 😉

          • woops..you snuck in ahead of me JAC

            • gmanfortruth says:

              I didn’t mean it that way. I was asking about the aiding the enemy issue. Our current enemies are terrorist organizations. I believe we are already funding them, just not openly. The position I take is, by helping the enemy in Syria, is he not helping our enemies?

              If this is still NO, then it would have been OK to help Hitler in Russia, even though he was our enemy elsewhere. Is it much different? I’m curious as to the logic of this issue, by everyone actually. I’m not saying I’m right, but that is the position I hold at the moment. 🙂

              • Just A Citizen says:

                gman

                What “enemy” of the USA is involved in Syria? They are Syrian rebels.

                That is the problem with trying to apply standard definitions of WAR and Int’l Law to a generally terrorist movement. Some people say that some of them are Al Quiada. What proof do we have of that claim??

                So NO, he is not guilty of supporting our enemies. What support did he give except argue that the USA should help?

                The Hitler example is very different. He was a German who had “INVADED” Russia.

                You pose a very interesting question. I am not just going to toss it out. I don’t think McCain violates that law, “treason”.

                However, it is interesting because of the way Congress defined our “enemy” in the Defense of America Act that authorized Bush going into Afghanistan and Iraq. It creates a very interesting possibility.

                It would center on the question of whether the rebels in Syria are in fact the same group or an affiliated group of Al Quiada. Then perhaps if they are affiliated if they have to display some hostile intent towards the USA or is guilt by association enough.

              • I think he is “innocent” if he went with the blessings of the State Dept. & administration. Looks like he did the same thing in Libya. (missed that) I have yet to see anything that says they gave him the OK, but JAC is usually right when he makes such statements. I formally withdraw my arrest request until such time I have proof he violated a law dealing with a foreign power. Hope he gets run out of office though…

              • gmanfortruth says:

                JAC, I don’t determine who the enemies of the US are, the Feds do. They already have and have made it clear that none of us us better even think about having any form of contact with them. The list is easy to find. Maybe I should ask why we as a country are still under a “state of emergency” since 911 if the enemy is no longer! Because our State Dept and Govt have been supporting the same groups they claim are our enemies. So why are we still under a “state of emergency” for the last 12 + years or so?

  18. In all, the eastern Mediterranean is estimated to hold more than 60 trillion cubic feet of gas. More discoveries are anticipated at Tamar, and exploration is taking place at the Karish-1 area which may contain up to 2 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The Israeli energy companies Delek and Avner have signed contacts for a 30 percent stake in exploration rights off the south coast of Cyprus. In view of the political uncertainty in the area foreign investors were at first reluctant to get involved. That has now changed. France’s Total is exploring the area off southern Cyprus, and Australia is buying a stake in Leviathan. Some Arab and Muslim states, including Jordan, south Sudan, and Azerbaijan, are openly or covertly negotiating with Israel regarding energy. Jordan, which previously had obtained 80 percent of its natural gas from Egypt, will now get it from Israel. Greece has proposed it become the European distribution center for eastern Mediterranean gas.

    Russia has been acutely aware of these developments. In July 2012 President Vladimir Putin visited Israel, largely to discuss the gas fields. The Russian Gazprom has signed a deal with Israel on the future distribution of the large Israel gas resources, and plans to build a floating facility off Cyprus to convert the product to LNG. This is particularly enticing for Russia because of problems caused by the war in Syria. Gazprom was to manage the gas pipeline, agreed to in July 2011 by Iran, Iraq, and Syria, which would run from Iran to Lebanon and across the Mediterranean to Europe. Political differences concerning the regime of Bashar al-Assad now makes this improbable.

    Western Europe and the United States can anticipate that the power of OPEC will be broken, not only by these natural-gas fields, but also by the prospects of a major oil shale or “kerogen” facility, different from shale oil, in Israel discovered in 2009. This is the Shfela Basin, southeast of Jerusalem, which is said to contain 250 billion barrels of pre-oil hydrocarbons contained in cylinders of rock. However, though Rupert Murdoch and Jacob Rothschild are investing in it, it is not clear at the moment if oil can be produced there on a commercial scale. Exploitation of this shale becomes more likely if the price of liquid oil rises. Production at Shfela would transform Israel into a superpower in the energy field. Indeed, some optimistic surveys hold that this Basin holds the second largest shale deposits outside of the United States, and that about 250 billion barrels of oil, the same amount as Saudi Arabia’s reserves, could come from it.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/moses_was_right_after_all.html#ixzz2VGmBT200

    • I hate to say it but the titans of industry will never allow it to happen. It’s there, relatively easy to get and safely but it would cause financial havoc. I’d side with Charlie’s opinion on this one even though there is no “government” alternative.

  19. So it’s been quite a day on capital hill. If you haven’t listened to or watched the testimonies today on IRS targeting, I would encourage you to do so. And remember, these are the extremists, racists, etc. as indicated time and again by pelosi and others in this adm. The left is always against voter suppression, correct? Voter ID=voter suppression. No same day registration=voter suppression. Along with government intimidation/tyranny, this whole targeting is also extreme voter suppression. And that’s just by the IRS. More and more stories now coming out about EPA, Dept of Labor, HHS doing the exact same thing.

    And yet there are still people, hmmm, don’t even know what to call them, like Jim McDermott, who try to deflect and actually blame the victims themselves for even applying for their status. What a wasted piece of skin he is and yet, there are probably many more like him that are so, I don’t know, brainwashed? that they can’t even look at all this and realize how desperately wrong it is.

    I feel both sadness and a small sense of hope after listening to the happenings this morning. Perhaps we are getting closer to our demise, so that we can begin to rebuild.

    Here’s a clip of McDermott’s embarrassing show (watch the second one):

    http://therightscoop.com/jerkocrat-rep-mcdermott-blames-victims-of-irs-scandal-for-targeting-activity-gets-smacked-down-by-paul-ryan/

  20. Saw this speech from Rand Paul that I thought went to the topic here of foreign policy:

    I think the top priority for the country, constitutionally, historically and appropriately, is defense of the country. That’s what we’re supposed to do in Washington. That being said Reagan’s motto was Peace Through Strength it wasn’t War Though Strength. There are some in our party who mistake war for defense. If you don’t believe in eternal and perpetual war doesn’t mean you are not for a strong national defense. This is an important distinction. There are some in our party who wanted to give arms to Gadaffi and then a year later wanted to give money to rebels to overturn Gadaffi. There’s a certain inconsistency there. I’m very worried about getting involved in a new war in Syria. People say Assad is such a bad guy. He is. But on the other side we have Al Qaeda and Al Nusra. They say there are some pro-Western people and they say we’re going to vet them. Apparently we got a senator over there who got his picture taken with some kidnappers so I don’t know how good a job we’re going to do vetting those who are going get the arms.

    There are two ironies you have to overcome, if you want to get involved in the war in Syria. The first irony is you will be allied with Al Qaeda. The second irony is that most of the Christians are on the other side. So you may be arming Islamic rebels who may well be killing Christians. Does that make Assad a good person? No, I don’t think there are any good people in this war. There are some tragically innocent people who are caught in the middle. But but I just don’t know that arming one side is going to make the tragedy any less.

    • A staggering 100,000 Christians are killed annually because of their faith, according to the Vatican — and several human rights groups claim such anti-Christian violence is on the rise in countries like Pakistan, Nigeria and Egypt.

      “Credible research has reached the shocking conclusion that an estimate of more than 100,000 Christians are violently killed because of some relation to their faith every year,” Vatican spokesman Monsieur Silvano Maria Tomassi said Tuesday in a radio address to the United Nations Human Rights Council.

      “Other Christians and other believers are subjected to forced displacement, to the destruction of their places of worship, to rape and to the abduction of their leaders, as it recently happened in the case of Bishops Yohanna Ibrahim and Boulos Yaziji, in Aleppo [Syria],” Tomassi said.

      While several human rights groups could not comment specifically on the Vatican’s number, organizations, like Persecution.Org, said the persecutions of Christians have been on the rise in places like Africa and the Middle East over the last decade.

      “Two-hundred million Christians currently live under persecution. It’s absolutely on the rise,” Jeff King, the group’s president, told FoxNews.com.

      “It’s easing in the old Communist world and it’s rising in the Islamic world,” King said, noting in particular countries like Egypt, Pakistan and Nigeria. King said that the first major killing spree in recent years happened between 1998 and 2003, when he claims 10,000 Christians were murdered in Indonesia alone during those years.

      Last March, a Nigerian Christian leader was killed when suspected Muslim militants burst into his home and shot him. Two members of Islamic militant group Boko Haram shot Faye Pama Mysa, a Pentecostal pastor and secretary of the Christian Association of Nigeria, in his home Wednesday, according to multiple reports. The killing happened just after President Goodluck Jonathan declared a state of emergency because of ongoing attacks in Africa’s most populous nation.

      King spoke of another example in which young Christian girls were forced into sex slavery in Bangladesh. More than 140 children were rescued from Islamic training centers over the last year — with the majority of girls being targeted because of their religion, according to King.
      “Two-hundred million Christians currently live under persecution. It’s absolutely on the rise.”

      – Jeff King, president of Persecution.Org

      John Eibner, CEO of Christian Solidarity International, has raised grave concerns over what he calls “religious cleansing” in Syria.

      “Religious minorities are under constant threat in Syria,” Eibner told FoxNews.com. “If things continue as they have been for the past two years in Syria, with an increase in religious cleansing, it’s reasonable to think that there will be no more Christian communities or other religious minorities in the near future.”

      Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/02/vatican-spokesman-claims-100000-christians-killed-annually-because-faith/#ixzz2VIPBhbcv

      • Bottom Line says:

        Religion so annoys me.

        So many religions have believers who are arrogant and think they have an exclusive right to the true word of god. They often use this as a justification to impose their beliefs upon and/or violate others.

        It’s disgusting to see anyone punished for exercising their free will to believe in something…especially when it targets children, …particularly females.

        How many people have been murdered or enslaved throughout history as some form of religious persecution?

        Why cannot people simply respect each others’ right to choose what to believe? Why cannot people put their egos aside and not feel threatened if someone believes differently?

        Why must humans be such an evil species?

        • “Why must humans be such an evil species?”

          I’m not sure, but it’s one reason they entered in social contracts, that’s for sure; to attempt to protect one for the other.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            I don’t think these social contracts are working very well. Governments manage to destroy everything good people want. Until the ruling classes are done away with, this will never change. Forcing people to take care of one another through government edict don’t work either. Sadly, wars will always be waged, they have been since at least 2700 B.C. .

            • “Until the ruling classes are done away with …”

              I couldn’t agree more, but with money/greed being the root of all evil … well, capitalism sure seems to escalate the process …

  21. I think the Reps only chance to win in 2016 just got flushed down the toilet …

    http://www.politicususa.com/republicans-chris-christie-dead-opts-special-election.html

  22. Just A Citizen says:

    OK, we haven’t had any discussion about the little dust up overt the PEW Study on work and family so let me start the fight.

    http://news.msn.com/us/graduation-speech-offends

    • Another no win situation. Watched Lou Dobbs get creamed the other night because he had the temerity to point out 60% of the women in the survey were single moms with an average annual income of $ 23,000. The fractured American family is all fine and dandy with the intellectuals who want more of it and more people dependent on them. So, to reduce it again to its common denominator, Woman comprise 40% of the breadwinner population these days but 60% or almost 2/3rds are in poverty. Just great!

  23. Just A Citizen says:

    V.H.

    Watched it last night. Several twists and turns.

    I am still ticked off over Nora. I did not see that one coming either.

    I knew the creep would reappear but did not see the Nukes coming. I thought it was him going to get control to take over the Monroe Republic.

    I assumed he was the one who deliberately caused the malfunction. Now I am not sure because why would he do that AND kill himself for the USA???? The search for the real saboteur may be next seasons mission?????

    So now, what was it you wondered if I would do? Let me take a shot.

    I would immediately go TURN OFF the power……….again.

    Guantanamo was a great idea, and a surprise. Had to chuckle at that one.

    Now one for the future: I wonder if Charlie is actually Mile’s daughter. And lets not forget there is the SON we have still not seen.

    I just hope this doesn’t turn into one of those LOST shows where they have to create more and more strange and unrelated things to keep it going.

    • Lost-I had to stop watching that show before the first season was over-never having an answer to any plot lines-drove me crazy.

      Hated Nora being killed off but I was surprised when the President raised his little head-probably shouldn’t have been but I was. 🙂

      Did you notice that they kept showing Bush’s picture? But if you noticed in one episode they showed Obama’s picture too-So obviously Bush wasn’t President when the lights went off. 🙂

      • Just A Citizen says:

        V.H.

        Yeah, the Pres being in Cuba was a big, Oh Wow moment.

        What was it you were asking whether I could do it. You said you could.

        • Oh, I was asking whether or not you would have turned on the power and taken the chance of blowing everything up..

          • Just A Citizen says:

            V.H. Probably not, at least up until the Geek commented on a deliberate sabotage.

            Even then I am not sure. Because that was the supposed odds of the thing malfunctioning in the first place.

            I chuckled when she was making the argument. Spousal Unit Leader and I both commented at that point about the Risk Analysis we have done in our days. Low probability but SEVERE outcome. The severity of the outcome can cause one to deny the very, very low probability and choose “safe”.

            I guess you are just much tougher than me. 🙂

            One seriously flawed part…………everything starts working like the power went off yesterday. But what the heck. Can’t wait till next season.

            Now for Falling Skies………. new aliens………… and a new baby??

            And I’m still angry over losing NORA. What the hell we they thinking?

  24. Damn, JAC……I go away for a week, come back and read everything that I missed…..and we are still on conspiracy theories for 9-11, men who back women’s rights are murderers, Charlie still on his rant about poverty and starvation and slavery, not understanding the ME……sigh.

    First of all….please understand that the secret to the ME is in Persian History and the 12th Imam. Until people understand this……they will never get the secret to solving the ME. WE HAVE NO FRIENDS IN THAT PART OF THE COUNTRY AND NEVER WILL HAVE. It matters not if we pull out in its entirety….we will still be hated……NOT FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE but for WHO WE ARE. Islamic extremism is a catch word. Islam is NOT peaceful and will never be but I cannot argue those down that think otherwise…just have to sit back and watch it happen. It is a religion and that religion guides the Muslim community…..period.

    I will not involve myself in the abortion arguments…..I am a believer in women’s rights.

    Nobody is starving in the United States. Even during the great depression…no child starved to death on the streets, no homeless were run over by street sweepers, no one went without food. This information is from the Obama administration. Some may not have had three meals a day,,,,,,but charity fed most of the people. FDR was a joke and so was Wilson and the reason for our problems today…not to mention Truman.

    We are involved in a bigger scandal than the Iran Contra affair and it is OBAMA’s problem. We have boots on the ground in Syria…..we are supplying them with weapons, we are meddling in their internal problems…and trying to dictate a government. John McCain needs to retire to a horse farm.

    Israel is a pain in the ass…..a boil that needs lancing.

    Oh…..we do not need to worry about oil or gas from the ME……everybody (including my family) that is in the oil and gas business knows that we have the reserves and the fields to be totally self sufficient for 300 years in both oil and gas….but are being blocked by the EPA and progressive agenda…….wonder why that is?

    Ok caught up now……..was up in your territory…well, not quite…..but in the Sierra’s and Idaho.

    • http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm

      But I’m also reading a wonderful non-fiction book about Thurgood Marshall and his civil rights cases he fought as a lawyer in the 1940’s … when lynching was still a pretty common occurrence in the south … Let’s see … 2013-1940 = 73 years? a single generation … but of course racism has been wiped clean … 200+ years of institutional racism has disappeared because you guys say so?

      I don’t think so …

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Charlie

        Which INSTITUTIONS are still RACIST in the USA?

        • SUFA … 🙂

          Education, Law, Police, Banking, Medicine … and certainly several private organizations and institutions (especially at the upper tiers) …

          • Ok Charlie….we can have an interesting and non disparaging conversation about this……pick one of the subjects you mentioned and let’s tackle it…….want to start with education?

            • Sure, education is fine with me. When governments allocate the better schools to the more affluent communities (from the ground up), they are purposefully (probably from outside influence (i.e., money) ignoring schools in minority districts. It sure happened where I lived in Brooklyn. Stephen should pop in here with a counter claim, but there’s no dispute about which schools are better equipped and thus perform better (the same as the one I left out, the Justice system) whereby minorities are incarcerated far more than whites (before you tell me how they commit more crimes, please look at the marijuana study I posted the other day–it is VERY revealing about who gets to go to jail and who doesn’t (and then we get into legal representation, etc.) … your turn.

              • Popping up!

                Right about marijuana, even more right on cocaine and the difference between crack and the powder. Poor little white boys (and girls) get off the hook.

                This is a complex issue and I fault you for not seeing it as such. You gotta want to learn. Learning has to be important. Part of that is parental involvement. Without that we would, at least 90% of us be failures. With 70% of minority births being out of wedlock, half the equation is already missing for these kids.

                When you talk of ignoring schools in minority districts, (the minority districts are the majority in most American cities), are you comparing them to suburban districts? You know those districts like Fir Lawn where 70% plus of my $ 10,000 property taxes go to a mediocre educational system and football team?

                You want change my friend, I want to see you on the battle line for vouchers but more importantly, I want you to see that lowest common denominator that took our education system down. You know, we used to do pretty damn good job of educating non-english speaking minorities in the past.

                You are a novelist, You see things that others miss, you have an imagination which is essential for every thinking man and woman. So, use it! Delve into fiction like ” A Tree grows in Brooklyn”. The premise of that excellent book and movie proves both our points. The heroine wanted to go to better school in a better neighborhood. Her parents, especially her drunkard father wanted her to be educated and did what they had to do to get her into that school. Like “The Last Angry Man”, “A Tree Grows” is fiction based mostly on fact. The young lady grew up, became novelist and did so because the parents cared, she wanted to learn and there was better school. The least of these three, in my mind, is the last.

                Let’s not talk victimless crime, let’s talk last weekend in NYC with the 24 shootings. None were on the Upper West Side, Bay Ridge, Riverdale, the Upper East side, Forest Hills etc. They were in the usual places, the places where the cops do “stop and frisk”, Brownsville, East NY, Bed-Sty, the South Bronx, Harlem, Spanish Harlem, Corona. It is emulation of that Goddam “Gangsta” culture which is running wild out there with nary a Dad to stand in the way and kick junior’s ass when he starts to get out of line. That is the Lowest Common Denominator. Everything else is peripheral BS.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13

      You got that close and didn’t call?

      So let me speculate, if you trip was for work then a certain Marine Base in the Sierras and perhaps Mtn. Home in Idaho???

      As usual you captured in far fewer words what I was trying to get across the other day.

      They hate us for who we are, not what we have done.

      My only exception to your post is McCain. I’m thinking a wild JackAss ranch would be more fitting Or I could keep one spot open on the pig farm for him. He can work with KSM cleaning out the pens.

      Which reminds me, I’ve kept a VERY SPECIAL slot open for a particular TRAITOR standing trial in Texas for murdering his fellow soldiers. Soon as you guys get done with him let me know.

      Just returned from a short game of swat and follow. Struggling with the Driver of late. It was still peaceful and a nice morning for a walk.

      Give my best to your wife and as always,
      Live Free

      • No sir….I was not on duty……I did not have a cell phone….computer…I Pad……nothing. But I will be in the Green River range area next month and the Hell Roaring Lake in the Sawtooths in August…….I will also be flying to Eugene as well…..you will get a call.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13

          Your getting to be quite the jet setter, 🙂

          July in Sierra Nevada and passing through the Sawtooths on the way home, myself. Late July.

          If you get to Eugene in August you should stop by for dinner in Portland. Our treat.

    • “I will not involve myself in the abortion arguments…..I am a believer in women’s rights.”

      I find it hard to believe that you can whittle down the whole abortion argument to nothing more than a matter of woman’s rights.

      I also find it a little frustrating to have you whittle down my arguments against abortion and my specific discussion with Charlie-talking specifically to Charlie about Charlie’s specific statements-as ” men who back women’s rights are murderers”.

      • I have to admit, Colonel, VH has me there. I am a supporter of a woman’s right to choose and therefore a proponent of murder … although I suspect we’re all proponents of murder (or most of us are) when push comes to shove (i.e., self defense and war come to mind).

        • Well, I see VH’s point,,,,,she has one but from what I have read of her postings and beliefs, there is no compromise…..and compromise where a life is concerned is a tough choice. I have the same issue with my significant other. She insists that if you allow one crack, the dam will break. Ok…I respect that…..but when I put her on the spot…..if she were raped and got pregnant because of it…..would she bear the child……..I get no answer. So, like religion…..it is a great argument to stay away from…there are no winners.

      • VH……no disrespect intended at all….none. I stay away from two arguments……….religion and abortion. I stay away from those two arguments for one basic reason….they are very controversial. I have stated on here many times that I believe in a woman’s right to choose and I still believe that……………………to a point. Abortion gets nowhere with me if it is used as a form of birth control. It gets no further once you past the first trimester. But I am a rape and incest person and if a mothers life is in danger….those are women’s choices to me and not arguable. I am a firm believer in viability……viability meaning to me that the baby can survive outside the womb without life support. So, the arguments concerning this are a non issue. My significant other and I avoid this as she is totally against it. I know all the arguments for and against……but a broad brush is not to my liking either and that is how I read your post. If I am mistaken, please accept my apologies.

        As to religion……it can neither be proved nor disproved….therefore no logical conclusion can be reached. Taking something by faith resides in the individual……no further.

  25. Charlie…..the term murderer is something that I take exception to……even in abortion, wars, or self defense. It takes a lot to make a murderer……and this latest abortion doctor was just that….and he should go to D13’s province for sentencing…..he will get what he deserves and in spades. In war, I will kill. That does not make me a murderer. But, just so you know, those of us that have had to,,,,,good or bad…..still carry a sense of guilt with us for the rest of our lives. I know of no Special Forces soldier or any soldier, that likes to kill. None of us do. Innocent people? Interesting aspect as you and I have never discussed it before……just whom is innocent in a war? Women? Children? Preachers or pastors? All are looked on with suspicion in a war situation and you take nothing for granted. And “war” is a funny word with various connotations to it. Much like plausible denial is in politics. In a free fire zone, there are no innocents. I have never seen American soldiers line people up and gun them down…..I have seen the Vietnamese do that….I have seen Afghans do that…..I have seen Iraqis do that…..I have seen Syrians do that……I have seen the systematic genocide of the “peace keeping” mission in Serbia An entire village wiped out for religion. ( Please do not throw the Mei Lai thing at me……it was an isolated crime and it was a crime). I spent two tours in South East Asia and never heard of another one.

    • Colonel, I’ll address what I can here.

      just whom is innocent in a war? Women? Children? Preachers or pastors? All are looked on with suspicion in a war situation and you take nothing for granted. And “war” is a funny word with various connotations to it. Much like plausible denial is in politics. In a free fire zone, there are no innocents.

      I respectfully disagree. Who determines “free fire zones”? If there is “collateral damage” is a funny word (to me) … if innocents are killed and labeled collateral damage, it doesn’t wash (for me). More importantly (and more to my point in bringing up war in the first place) … to my mind, going anywhere to fight a war one doesn’t agree with puts one in some dangerous moral territory. We each have our own morals … so to each his own. For me, there’s no good reason to obey with blind faith anyone or any cause. That is not an attack on your position, but it is my position.

      I have never seen American soldiers line people up and gun them down…..I have seen the Vietnamese do that….I have seen Afghans do that…..I have seen Iraqis do that…..I have seen Syrians do that……I have seen the systematic genocide of the “peace keeping” mission in Serbia An entire village wiped out for religion. ( Please do not throw the Mei Lai thing at me……it was an isolated crime and it was a crime). I spent two tours in South East Asia and never heard of another one

      Here’s a list that might interest you … or maybe not. I find it pretty conclusive (and notice that it never goes into the killings of native Americans, et al).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

      • “do not throw the Mei Lai thing at me……it was an isolated crime and it was a crime”

        Colonel, you implied Americans never lined people up and shot them … well, if Mei Lai is a crime, so are all the other instances (i.e., the holocaust) … that seems like a VERY weak argument, at best.

      • Charlie…..I looked at your “war crimes” and even though I discount Wiki as a biased source….almost all of this pertained to bombings…..and there were no surgical strikes on he items listed. The My Lai issue in Vietnam was a black eye and rightfully so…..it was a platoon that got tired of being ambushed from towns and not being able to shoot back. If you look closely at the entire investigation, it is conceivable to see where this platoon came from…….it was not legal…….but in war, strange things happen. They paid the price for it.

        I understand your moral ethics…..and why you feel that way…..just remember, that there is another side.

        • I do respect the other side, Colonel. I just don’t agree with it. One of those we agree to disagree items on the list.

          And to be fair, to my mind it was the United States Government, from Kennedy through Nixon who deserved to be tried as war criminals for what we did in Southeast Asia, not the boots on the ground. Unprovoked and absolutely uncalled for ravaging of several different nations. My thesis for my political science degree was on the Khmer Revolution (Pol Pot, et al) … and there’s no doubt in my mind that what those kids educated in a French Lycee in Paris did with Mao’s cultural revolution had EVERYTHING to do with our Operation Breakfast (and later Menu) bombings of Cambodia (a neutral country we dropped more tonnage of bombs on then everything we dropped in WWII). How they haven’t come across the ocean to terrorize us probably has everything to do with how power crazy those kids turned out to be (reeducations camps, etc.) … but now that the technology is out there, our asses better learn fast we aren’t making friends in the middle east by fighting wars that have nothing to do with us and everything to do with big money.

  26. Women “Deliver” Conference -nice play on words when the discussion is abortion. But to me the whole discussion should scare all of us.

    Peter Singer: Women Should Sacrifice Having Kids to Protect Environment

    by Population Research Institute | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 6/5/13 11:33 AM

    Bioethicist Peter Singer compared women and children to cows overgrazing a field and said — at the global Women Deliver Conference last week, hailed as the most important meeting to focus on women and girls’ human rights in a decade — that women’s reproductive rights may one day have to be sacrificed for the environment.

    The controversial Princeton University professor, known for championing infanticide and bestiality, was a featured panelist on Thursday at the three-day Women Deliver conference attended by Melinda Gates and more than 4,000 abortion and contraception activists in Kuala Lumpur.

    Singer said that since the world’s affluent are not likely to restrain their high rate of consumption compared to the world’s poor any time soon, and since it’s possible that family planning efforts may “turn out to be not enough…we ought to consider what other things there are that we can do …in order to try stave off some of the worst consequences of the environmental catastrophes…”

    “It’s possible of course, that we give women reproductive choices, that we meet the unmet need for contraception but that we find that the number of children that women choose to have is still such that population continues to rise in a way that causes environmental problems,” he said. Women have more children because of their “ideological or religious views.”

    Singer added that “greenhouse gases… are getting very close to a tipping point,” and climate change could become a “catastrophe and cause hundreds of millions or billions of people to become climate refugees.”

    In that case, he said, “we need to consider whether we can talk about trying to reduce population growth and whether that’s compatible with the very reasonable concerns people have about women’s right to control their life decisions and their reproduction.”

    Singer, who has also argued the case for bestowing international human rights on primates, said it is “appropriate to consider whether women’s reproductive rights are “fundamental” and unalterable or whether, in bioethicist speak, they are “prima facie — good and important to respect but there can be imaginable circumstances in which you may be justified in overriding them.”

    Then Singer compared women’s right to bear children to the traditional villager’s right to graze their cows on “common” grounds. As the villagers get more affluent and their cows die less from disease, he said, until the commons are overgrazed, “yields are falling… and that’s a road to disaster.”

    “Turns out that the right to graze as many cows as you like on the common was not an absolute right,” said Singer. “Obviously this is what I think we ought to be saying even about how many children we have… I hope we don’t get to a point where we do have to override it… but I don’t think we ought to shrink away from considering that as a possibility.”

    His views were not entirely well received. Babtunde Osotimehin, executive director of the UNFPA objected that “There is no way we will come to a point where we are limiting the rights of people in this way.”

    Osotimehin was one of a number of speakers at the conference to highlight what pro-lifers have been saying for decades: that “global population growth is actually coming down” and that predictions of worldwide famine and overpopulation disaster were way off the mark.

    “India not only feeds itself, it exports food,” said Osotimehin. He added that while some regions of the world continue to grow, others have “more 65-year-olds than 5-year-olds and those countries have issues with how they are going to remain competitive.”

    Earlier at the conference, Karolinska Institute Professor of International Health, Hans Rosling, clearly demonstrated (as opponents of population control have also contended for decades) that falling fertility is related to declines in infant mortality and to rising affluence. He also conceded that fears of a population “explosion” are grossly exaggerated and the world’s population will likely peak at about 9 billion, and then start to fall.

    Harvard School of Public Health’s Alicia Yamin also said that the original population explosion proponent, Thomas Malthus, was wrong. “Human beings are more than just consumers” she said. They have “capacity for reason,” and are “active agents” able to solve problems.

    The problem, a number of speakers identified, is overconsumption by the world’s wealthiest. “One third of the food that is produced in the world today is wasted, “ said Osotimehin. “So sometimes it is not about what is available, it is about the politics distribution and it is about the politics of access.”

    “A homeless person in Denmark actually consumes more than a family of six in Tanzania,” he added.

    And wealthy people in developed nations aim to consume as much as wealthy Americans. The “new population problem,” said Osotimehin, “is that every young person who grows up in Tanzania wants to drive an SUV.”

    Kavita Ramdas, an Indian representative of the Ford Foundation in New Delhi pointed out that the “ecological footprint” of the average American’s consumption is 9.7 hectares, compared the average for a person from Mozambique: 4.7 hectares. An American SUV requires 44,000 gallons of water to produce it. And American houses grew 38% in size between 1975 and 2002, even though the number of people per household fell.

    It is difficult to say how receptive the conference attendees were to this attack on American consumerism (Melinda Gates’ house is 66,000 square feet and features an indoor swimming pool is piped with an underwater sound system.) But Ramdas was just warming up.

    “I don’t think all rights should be put in stone,” she said. “ Why can there not be a prima facie right imposed on the countries that are truly putting an unsustainable load on the planet for all of us?” She continued saying that the United States and Europe are not always going to have this “post-colonial glow in which they assume they are always going to have control.”

    “If Americans consume more than Africans, they should be forced into a one child policy,” she said at one point.

    When a journalist on the panel said he didn’t see “how to get the rich world to consume less,” Ramdas said: “You force it… you can force women to have less children, you can force people to consume less… Suck it up!”

    “The world order has to change,” said Osotimehin, a Nigerian family doctor. “Not only about the environment, it has to change about rights, it has to change about transportation. It won’t do any country any good to stick to some norm that is actually hurting the rest of the world. It just won’t fly.”

    Ramdas said the Global South will no longer tolerate Western “hypocrisy and their “other agenda.” “We have been there before, “she said. “ We have seen forced sterilizations. We have seen the fears that the West has of brown people overrunning the world. We are tired of being slaves to colonial masters.”

    It is a point population control opponents at the Population Research Institute have been making for decades.

    Ironically, Ramdas works for the Ford Foundation, one of the original architects of the global population control policies that she denounces. One Ford official, in the 1960s heyday of overpopulation fears of brown people reproducing themselves across the globe, speculated on record about “spraying an aerial contraceptive over India that could be neutralized with an antedotal pill on medical prescription.”

    CLICK LIKE IF YOU’RE PRO-LIFE!

    But in her closing remarks Ramdas moved away from population control to another global agenda. “We tend to talk a lot about family planning, but this is also about the choice not to have children. It’s about the choice to understand that you can have sex just for the pleasure of having sex,” she said to applause and added that “free safe and legal abortion” is vital to the cause.

    Unwittingly, Ramdas appears to to be advocating — and adopting herself — the very tenets of Western ideology that underpin the Western population control dogma she so despises: a hedonistic view of sex divorced from nature and family, a complete disregard for some human life, and an irrepressible urge to regulate the behaviour of others.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2013/06/05/peter-singer-women-should-sacrifice-having-kids-to-protect-environment/

    • VH, please don’t take this the wrong way, because I’m really trying to understand your passion, but I’m having a problem connecting a few dots. How can you be so anti-common good and so pro life at the same time? One, whether JAC or anyone else on SUFA can deal with it or not, kind of precludes the other. One, in fact, is kind of analogous to social darwinism, which the Nazi’s were pretty much in favor of when they believed they had the right formula for supermen. This is not an attack, just a general question.

      • Where did you get the idea I am anti-common good? Where actually did you get the idea that anyone on here is anti-common good? People simply believe that charity and other methods can be used to help people besides a big huge Federal government. I personally believe that any common good policy should be handled at the State level. Some people go further than I do in the idea that government is overstepping-As I’ve said many times-I agree with having welfare and many other programs-I just think they have gone too far-are too mismanaged and have become a political tool. They have lead to “it’s my right” instead of “thank you for the help”, help that in most cases should be temporary. I also think it hurts people’s pride and their natural desire to help themselves.

        • One problem with charity is it’s subjective, not objective … and that’s a HUGE problem when the vast majority of those in need are minorities without the same potential benefactors.

          Another problem with states handing common good problems is, well, different states enforcing different standards. Some state(s) still refuse to do away with their confederate flags (not looking to debate that issue, just pointing it out).

          In a world where the common good is a priority, VH, it is a “right” to desire a dignified life. Why wouldn’t it be?

          And just how are the poverty stricken in this wonderful capitalist country of ours supposed to climb out of said poverty when there are no jobs for the so-called middle class? It was a nice bumper sticker while it worked (in the 1950’s when blacks were still denied the right to vote in some states) that bit about working hard and achieving the American dream. Now the American Dream has become a lotto ticket … and just where do you think you’ll find the most stores selling said lotto tickets? In rich suburbs or poorer areas?

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Charlie makes the case AGAINST the greater good.

            “In a world where the common good is a priority, VH, it is a “right” to desire a dignified life. Why wouldn’t it be?”

            It wouldn’t, nor would any other demand or desire. All you need is to get 51% on your side and you can take what you want for “the greater good”.

            Since there is nothing in nature related to reality that supports the claim that any particular person “should have, deserves, has a right to a dignified life” then it follows that the ethic which creates it is equally false.

      • But Charlie-Please tell me you don’t think this article represents the common good. And no offense meant here either.

        • Actually, I only read a little piece of it, but I was only addressing you, not the article. I’m home sick from work today so I have some free time between writing. I saw your comment to the Colonel and kind of jumped in half-assed.

      • I was so busy looking at the how can I part of your question -I ignored a very big point. Seriously Charlie-are you saying that I must be okay with killing innocent people to be able to support the common good.

    • I never understand why at the end of these conferences where these nutcases want to implement limits on life itself, don’t just all up and hurl themselves into a burning pit. Suck it up as she says. Sacrifice yourself – would truly be better for all of us. The greater good as it were!!! LOL!

  27. Term limits! I’ve been on the fence with term limits, but have decided to come down on the side that, yes, we need them. With the death this week of 120 year old Lautenberg, old John McCain, and now this doofus, yes, we need to get rid of those that won’t do it on their own.

    BTW, check out Megyn Kelly’s interview with McDermott. She’s good!

    http://twitchy.com/2013/06/05/bam-megyn-kelly-crushes-irs-victim-blaming-creep-rep-mcdermott-he-sneers-screams-stop-it/

    • Kathy…..two terms fr President…..10 years for Senators and Representatives. no more.

    • Now I’m in real trouble … I agree with Kathy … excuse me while I jump into a burning pit and deliver goodness to the common good 🙂

    • Term limits would be a huge step in the right direction. We have too many people that have no idea what the effects of the laws they are passing will be because they do not know what it means to be a private citizen.

      We would get better laws if the law makers had to live under the laws they make. Look at how few in government have to comply with Obamacare, do you really think they would have passed it if they would have to comply themselves?

      http://termlimits.org/

      • Obamacare was a concession to the Insurance companies … universal health care is what we need … but I digress … term limits are essential. You give anybody power long enough and it will corrupt them beyond what they could have imagined. It’s the nature of the beast … and who says we need to have lawyers represent us? Or just the wealthy? Or retired businessmen/women? Representation should be broad and constantly turning … 2 years across the board … but first you’d have to dismantle this pissant government and nobody is doing that without a revolution, sorry to say.

        • I agree Charlie! 🙂 Government should be served because of desire to help those who vote for you. Wipe out the life long pensions and healthcare, watch how fast it changes !

          • “Wipe out the life long pensions and healthcare, watch how fast it changes !”

            DEFINITELY … AND … Chairman Charlie Cannoli says if/when the government votes to go to war, their children (of age) are required to serve on the front lines first and foremost. If GW and BO had to send their girls, something tells me these wars either wouldn’t have happened and/or they wouldn’t have gone on as long as they have.

            Why Mr. Romney should have been disqualified from even running, in my opinion. That clown was so pro the Vietnam war, he carried posters on campus supporting it, then ran to France for “religious” bullshit … not to mention his 5 genius sons (also supporting the war) didn’t go near it … no exceptions, ever … they vote for a war, their kids of age go first and no rear echelon bullshit … up front and close.

  28. @ VH…….you said “I find it hard to believe that you can whittle down the whole abortion argument to nothing more than a matter of woman’s rights.”

    I will spar with you just a little bit on this……to me, it is very simple. My parameters are what I stated:
    (1) Rape – No woman should be forced to bear a child as the result of a true commission of the crime of rape. ( I view this as a woman’s right to choose).
    (2) Incest – No woman should be forced to bear a child as a result of the true commission of the crime of incest. ( I view this as a woman’s right to choose ).
    (3) The life of the mother – If the life of the mother is at risk, that is a choice for the mother to make. ( I view this as a woman’s right to choose ).
    (a) In the above cases, viability becomes an issue. If one of the choices is made after viability, then I would be against it.

    That is pretty simple to me and very concise. Save me the trouble of going back and re-reading all of your posts. The above is as far as my “whittlin” goes. Do you consider me wrong in my limited approach.

    • 🙂 Now D, you said you didn’t want to talk about abortion-so I walked away with just one little comment and it was Hard to do 🙂 are you sure you want to talk about this? But just to be quick-I disagree with you-the life of the mother is the only exception I feel I must qualify-a woman shouldn’t be forced to die to carry a baby to term-but intentionally killing the baby through abortion procedures are not necessary per everything I have ever read.

      • fair enough…….thanks. No reason to go into details….just your position. Loud and clear.

      • Not that I want to stir the pot here, VH/Colonel … but I distinctly remember being called a murderer (or supporter of murder) for the same reasons … 🙂

        Relax, not lookign to start another war.

        • No war-just some clarification-I did not call you a murderer-I did say you supported the murder of children. The distinction in my mind-is that you define abortion as murder. Many people do not believe it is murder-So it’s a matter, to me anyway, of “they no not know what they do” and “they know and they support it anyway”.

          But I too, do not want to start this discussion over again, at least not today 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      As if we needed any more evidence that certain media are PART OF the Obama and DNC machine.

      The assassination of Issa is now three days old and has moved to Cable TV commentary.

      When are the American People going to wake the hell up?

      • When are the American People going to wake the hell up?

        When they are hungry. That’s not that hard to figure out. But it will only lead to more Sheeples, imagine that!

  29. Tonight, 69 years ago, they saddled up, moved out and saved the world, let’s not forget.

  30. Susan ( Benghazi) Rice and Samantha (Mrs. Cass Sustein ) Power ??? What difference does it make? 🙄

    • That Hicks guy, second in command to Stevens, was demoted for coming forward with the truth. Rice, willing tells lies to the American people, and gets promoted. Really, all you need to know about this adm. They are literally laughing in our faces now. We are so screwed.

    • Rice, Power & Clinton were the one’s that pushed thru our acting in Libya. We still haven’t heard where were Obama & Clinton at 3am? Now Rice will be the one to decided if the president gets his beauty sleep interrupted??? No, what could possibly go wrong? Oh, & she may be the reason Bill Clinton didn’t get OBL….from Wiki

      Rice served in the Clinton administration in various capacities: at the National Security Council (NSC) from 1993 to 1997; as director for international organizations and peacekeeping from 1993 to 1995 and as special assistant to the president and senior director for African affairs from 1995 to 1997.

      At the time of the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, Rice reportedly said, “If we use the word ‘genocide’ and are seen as doing nothing, what will be the effect on the November [congressional] election?” Rice subsequently acknowledged the mistakes made at the time and felt that a debt needed repaying.[18] The inability or failure of the Clinton administration to do anything about the genocide would inform her later views on possible military interventions.[19] She would later say of the experience: “I swore to myself that if I ever faced such a crisis again, I would come down on the side of dramatic action, going down in flames if that was required.”[20]

      Islamists took control in Sudan in a 1989 coup d’état and the United States adopted a policy of disengagement with the authoritarian regime throughout the 1990s. After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, however, some critics charged that the U.S. should have moderated its policy toward Sudan earlier, since the influence of Islamists there waned in the second half of 1990s and Sudanese officials began to indicate an interest in accommodating U.S. concerns with respect to 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden, who had been living in Sudan until he was expelled in May 1996. Timothy M. Carney, U.S. ambassador to Sudan between September 1995 and November 1997, co-authored an op-ed in 2002 claiming that in 1997 Sudan offered to turn over its intelligence on bin Laden but that Rice, as NSC Africa specialist, together with the then NSC terrorism specialist Richard A. Clarke, successfully lobbied for continuing to bar U.S. officials, including the CIA and FBI, from engaging with the Khartoum government.[21] Similar allegations (that Rice joined others in missing an opportunity to cooperate with Sudan on counterterrorism) were made by Vanity Fair contributing editor David Rose[22] and Richard Miniter, author of Losing Bin Laden.[23]

  31. Ya know Charlie…….how about I do an article on education and the minorities….It will take me about a day or two…….but it is a subject that I want to get into and the reverse discrimination that goes with it. In this article, I will address districts, private schools, public schools, and colleges, both public and private. Should prove interesting. .

    • Sounds good to me, Colonel … just so you(s) don’t think I’m a bleeding heart liberal (i’m not at all) … but I was a victim of reverse discrimination on a job twice. I started to fight it the second time, then decided screw it. I found another job … I know it happens. I know it sucks, and it probably further escalates the racism that already exists … it certainly pissed me off no end for a while … but it’s also a result of institutional racism …

  32. Just A Citizen says:
  33. Haven’t had time to read this yet, nor watch or read all the links involved. Gut reaction is we can see how the “slippery slope” of the Bush years has evolved to a mudslide with Obama. I’m a Verizon customer. Can I sue?

    http://michellemalkin.com/2013/06/06/history-lesson-the-crucial-differences-between-bush-and-obamas-nsa-phone-surveillance-programs/

  34. Just A Citizen says:

    There is a GOOD person out there who is seriously questioning whether to ever be nice again. She used the machine generated numbers. This means the guy who let her go ahead would have gotten those numbers.

    Of course now there will be hundreds calling her lawyers claiming to be that guy.

    http://news.msn.com/us/nice-gesture-helps-fla-widow-win-big-jackpot

  35. Just A Citizen says:

    Another example of RACIST accusations being used to blackmail an American business.

    Note that the PAY OFF of BRIBE money went to the “groups” and NOT to the individuals supposedly harmed. If I were Pres of Wells Fargo I would be pulling out of Chicago this morning. Lock, stock and barrel.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-wells-fargo-20130606,0,3741422.story

    • JAC, you got a hit above from a new poster, Jim thinks you have lost your mind…..

    • I don’t know, my man … looks pretty good to me … and Wells Fargo seemed anxious to settle.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Charlie

        Yes, extortion and black mail using Race, Sexism, Homophobia etc is EFFECTIVE because it is CHEAPER to settle.

        If this was an admission of guilt then why didn’t the parties ACTUALLY harmed get paid?

        • Not sure about the specifics, JAC … I don’t know … what I do know is you don’t settle unless you think you’re going to lose. See Michael Jackson, et al …

          But here’s something I’m sure the colonel might appreciate … something you should all read, by the way … Gilbert Kiing’s Devil in the Grove: Thurgood Marshall, the Groveland Boys, and the Dawn of a New America (review next week on my blog) … the reason I bought it was the editor of all my published crime novels also worked on this book — it was this years Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction … absolutely compelling read … and it begins in 1946, when Marshall went south to try and get some justice for blacks in the south (where they were still being lynched) … a single generation ago … and yous think there’s no institutional racism alive and well today?

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Charlie

            You are very wrong about the decision to settle. I have sat in on several of those meetings. It is about IMAGE and the perceptions of long term Branding combined with COSTS.

            In the current environment, and Fed Justice Dept, it would be far smarter to settle any such case. Anyone doing business in Chicago has experienced this. And the current POTUS was part of the crowd who helped establish it in that city/region.

            Institutional Racism? Sure………take Grambling University for example.

            • JAC, JAC, JAC … you’re so blind …

              • Just A Citizen says:

                OK Charlie.

                I have been there. I have participated in those discussions and listened to the arguments.

                But I am so blind.

            • As for image (in settling cases) … there’s no worse image to leave on the public than to settle … you go to court and win, you proved you weren’t guilty (in general) … you lose, well, tough noogies (especially your future) … so you settle, you make it obvious (to most) that you were at least guilty enough to fork over some cash.

    • Men and women like this should never have to work for an idiot like Obama. http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/06/two-marines-stand-their-ground-must-read-2523776.html

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Here is a radical idea for you G. One based on the premise that sometime doing the unexpected is the better choice.

      The USA should TEAM UP WITH the Russians to support Hassad. The conditions?

      Syria throw out Hezbolla, Iran and any other of the pot stirring crowd.

      Then Russia and US support Syria as needed to recover from its Civil War. Let the Russians take the lead economically as long as the US is REIMBURSED for its support.

      Oh, and Hassad has to turn over all the WMD’s he has stashed from Iraq and other places.

      Bwahahahahahaha…………….

      • An even more radical idea would be for the US to stay the hell out of it. Now wouldn’t that be something to see 🙂

        • Just A Citizen says:

          That wouldn’t be radical at SUFA though. I was looking for something HERE that was unexpected.

          But yes, nationally speaking it would be radical.

  36. Nothing very important here, but for some it may be the first look at your next home! http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013/06/leaked-obama-document-is-this-the-next-phase-after-irs-tea-party-persecution-2452322.html

  37. JAC said: “I have been there. I have participated in those discussions and listened to the arguments.

    But I am so blind.”

    Well, JAC, just because you’re in a room doesn’t mean YOUR view of an argument is correct. Come on, brother … you can do much better than “I was in the room” …

  38. @FLP “It’s like taking the 5th in front of congress, only a guilty person does that… right charlie?”

    How is settling a case and paying out the same as taking the 5th? I think you’re reaching a bit here. Paying out “settles” the issue (implying some level of guilt–at least to the sane) 🙂

    taking the 5th, quite frankly, is just plain smart — but nothing is “settled” …

  39. This site is full of right wing retards

  40. Yous want to read the book in this post … especially those at SUFA who think institutional racism no longer exists … it’s a great book about a great man–Thurgood Marshall
    http://temporaryknucksline.blogspot.com/2013/06/8-days-to-graduation-james-seals-my.html

  41. Charlie, glad to see you are awake out there. Please comment on the following vis a vis your previous comments about eduction and its funding.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-22-children-14-women-sued-support-article-1.1365207

    I categorize this as, “how can a teacher make up for this?”. I have been waiting for one of these guys to pop up again in the news.

    • I’m not sure what your point is, Stephen. Clearly, in Charlie World, he’s in jail for what he’s done. I’m also very in favor (statist that I am) of a chip being put into women who can’t afford to have kids (or are drug addicts, etc.) … to be removed when they can afford to raise a kid and/or are capable of doing so. Do you really think there aren’t poor white men out there who father kids they never attempt to raise (never mind pay for)? I’ll assume it wasn’t a race issue you’re addressing … but then what? How can a teacher make up for that? They can’t. Society as a whole has to try (jailing offenders might not be an issue if the state were allowed to proceed with blocking pregnancies). But so long as you want to fly that flag of liberty, I’ll suggest you’re kind of stuck with paying for these problems … or just letting them do what they feel they need to do to survive (crime seems the only viable option) …

      • Bottom Line says:

        ” I’m also very in favor (statist that I am) of a chip being put into women who can’t afford to have kids (or are drug addicts, etc.) … to be removed when they can afford to raise a kid and/or are capable of doing so. ”

        A chip? You can’t be sirius?

        By what standard do you determine ‘afford’?

        How do you expect such a thing would be received?

        For all the money you would spend for doctors and urinalysis to determine/regulate ‘addicts’, you could just cut a check to make up the difference in their income.

        What business is it of yours to worry about other people’s children/parenting anyway?

        Why stop there? Why not put a chip in everyone and regulate every aspect of their lives? Hell, you could regulate people with high blood pressure so that they cannot eat fatty foods. You could even regulate fat people as to only allow them so many calories a day.

        Here’s an idea… put a condensed micro-dose of mercury or cyanide in the chip, so that if they got too unruly, you could just push a button that sends a radio signal, bursts it open and kills them.

        …pfft…

        • Like I said, the alternative, it seems to me, is spending on education and everything else you all seem to hate so much. If so, then quit your whining and poney up the fazools.

          And bring Joy unto the world … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDViACDYxnQ

        • By what standard do you determine ‘afford’?

          They need assistance, they get the chip. And if there’s one for men (or something similar, guess what? They get it too.)

          How do you expect such a thing would be received?

          I could care less.

          For all the money you would spend for doctors and urinalysis to determine/regulate ‘addicts’, you could just cut a check to make up the difference in their income.

          No, actually, you can’t. We spend all that money now. My wife is an RN in a drug rehab/mental hospital … we piss that money away now and for close to zero positive effect. Many of the patients in those hospitals are pregnant.

          What business is it of yours to worry about other people’s children/parenting anyway?

          Like some of yous whacky conservatives, I take issue with having to fork the bill for people without direction. Unlike you whacky conservatives, I have no problem with a socialist based economy paying for whatever is needed (but that demands redistribution of wealth) and since you whacky conservatives have no desire to help anyone but yourselves, I would think you whacky conservatives would be in favor of people not reproducing because they forgot to protect themselves, etc. But I really don’t care what you whacky conservatives think about this … it’s not only a financial burden to permit those who can’t handle children to reproduce whenever they want (or they make a mistake), it is also a burden on them and the kids they’re supposed to parent (which is my greater concern).

          Why stop there? Why not put a chip in everyone and regulate every aspect of their lives? Hell, you could regulate people with high blood pressure so that they cannot eat fatty foods. You could even regulate fat people as to only allow them so many calories a day.

          Now you’re showing your true paranoid side … Harrison Bergeron (Kurt Vonnegut short story) …

          Here’s an idea… put a condensed micro-dose of mercury or cyanide in the chip, so that if they got too unruly, you could just push a button that sends a radio signal, bursts it open and kills them.

          If it’s for tea baggers, sure, I’m all for it. 🙂

          …pfft…

          fart

          • Bottom Line says:

            Did it ever occur to you that I was being facetious?

            Did it ever occur to you that people are responsible for their own, and that the state isn’t?

            If you care so much about other people’s children, why not adopt a few?

            • It didn’t occur to me that you were being flippant because I’m used to much harsher tones here (bullies, all of them :)) … but that’s the point, BL, people AREN’T responsible because they SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE … some people, let’s face it, are fuck-ups. And when fuck-ups reproduce, it USUALLY isn’t a good thing. Not always, there are instances where good comes from bad … and if they want to have kids down the road, those who are chipped (so to speak), let them prove they can take care of them without having to be solely dependent on others.

              I can’t afford to adopt other children and give them what I did for my kids is ONE reason … the others are: 1) I’m too old to deal with it (57) … 2) I’m too selfish at this late stage to do so.

              And then there’s this: Why should I have to adopt when there’s a way to prevent kids from being put in that position in the first place? I’d much rather they live with their birth parents, but if their birth parents and drug addicted fuck-ups, no thanks (I’ll speak for the kids here) …

              • Bottom Line says:

                Charlie,

                I don’t like watching children being neglected or abused any more than you or anyone else. But you have to draw a line somewhere.

                If you accept the premise that you/we/society are responsible for other people’s children, thus justifying intervention, then it should apply to all aspects of the same.

                What should other people feed their kids?

                What brand of diapers should they use?

                What religion should they teach them?

                What schools should they send them to?

                And if you are responsible for other people’s families, what aren’t you responsible for?

                Maybe it should be required that all people have to get a masters degree, thus ensuring they are capable of providing. What about blue collar jobs? Who would fill the positions?

                And why not just go ahead and make them take parenting classes, nutrition classes, etc.

                Do you see the slippery slope?

                Oh, but wait a minute, it is because you have to pay for it…or do you? Why not just cut them off altogether?

      • Don’t be dense on me Charlie. You kicked this off on eduction the other day. The educational system , no matter how many bucks you throw at it, cannot make up for bad parenting or in this case, no parenting! Wouldn’t it be nice if some foundation or other began tracking these kids for the next 20 years to see how they turn out. This turkey doesn’t even know how many kids he has fathered. In case you re not ware, in some areas of ghetto culture (the sociologists word, not mine) the number of kids you father counts towards your street cred.

        I’m sorry BL but in this case, time to do little snip, snip. I’m being nice here, I allow him to continue having “fun”. What I feel like doing is taking off the whole package. He has his individual “rights” but as usual, these poor kids, as in abortion, do not. Hey that’s another one. Wonder how many abortions this clown is responsible for. Certainly not all women can be that dumb.

        Oh, yes, and we are spending on education for these kids.Like I said, would be interesting to track them and see the result. There are enough of them that you could break them up into two groups. Intervene in one case and provide a private eduction at twice the Public cost and let the other half go through the “system”.

        • Stephen … throwing money is dumb, yes … but money alone isn’t what I’m talking about regarding education … and I’m pretty damn sure, the “money” is being doled out very inefficiently and disproportionately (aflluent vs. poor) …

          As for the parents, well, you saw my suggestion (although snip, snip works too for me) … then there are the affluent (for as long as their careers last who do the same thing–Jets CB Cromartie had to take a $500,000 advance when he was traded to the Jets because he owed back child support … 6 kids from 6 different women … that was a few years ago, I think he’s up to 8 kids now) …

          I would think some of yous Sufa-ites would love the chip approach (or something akin to it) … it goes to responsibility … if you can’t afford or are incapable of being a parent (for drug addiction, alcohol abuse, etc.), you get the chip, end of story. When you clean up your act, knock yourself out.

          • We talk too much around the issue of personal responsibility here. Essentially, we are all in agreement. Having lived to my ripe old age, I remember when there was a thing called “shame”. I remember when there were fathers. I remember when a “father” would tell his daughter or for that matter his son, to avoid certain people because they were no good. This involved the father making a value judgement based on the best information he had. With the disappearance of fathers and their replacement with “sperm donors”, the shit has really hit the proverbial fan.

            Time and time again when someone like me makes the argument that things were “better” in the old days, someone like you brings up George Armstrong Custer, the Sand Creek Massacre, Simon Legree, 2/3rs of a man etc. Whether you are just “funning” with me or not, bringing these things up, the bottom line is certain things were better. Some were far worse. Cannot we “save” those better things like “fathers” and “shame” while condemning the errors of the past like racism and its brothers. There is a very old expression out there, “You don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”. My dad was a great believer in building off the good and discarding the bad.

            • I “think” we are in agreement, Stephen … Custer, Sand Creek? How about 1965 (if you think I’m bringing up past issues)? And I’m sure I can find much more recent ones (but now I’m not sure if you’re “funning” me) …

              But I digress … we’re living in 2013 and I don’t know that our fathers (and mine was no great bargain–and I’m sure there were plenty of not-so-great bargains out there years ago–our generation didn’t own great fathers–there were plenty of losers back then too) doing the right thing is a relevant argument anymore (simply because of what you point out–it just isn’t happening in too many instances/situations/whatever). So, society has to make some decisions … but nobody is willing to pay the price … so then let society use the chip (etc.) in the interim, until society decides what the hell is a better approach to the problem. Perhaps education, equally dispersed, over time will help. Maybe not.

              • I can bring up Birmingham and Bull Conner, even throw in the Stonewall riots and the current mess over sexual harassment (nice word) in the military. The issue I think is that we have lost “shame”. I forget the SC justice who used that famous phrase regarding pornography, “I can’t define it but I sure know it when I see it.” Same with “wrong” behavior. Today you would have a hard time getting two people to “define” it but the “gut”sense is there. Some clown fathering 17 children by different women is “wrong”. Some guy knocking up a woman and then leaving her to raise the child alone is wrong.

                In our day, a girl “trapping” a guy into marriage with a pregnancy was wrong too but if I remember the sentiment correctly, the guy would be sympathized with and still expected to step up to the plate. Of course that all went out the window with Rowe vs Wade.

                Times have changed, human behavior has not but responsibility, dare I say moral responsibility, has left the station.

                There was piece on the news the other night about the Chinese government imposing an extra tax on women who bear children out of wedlock. Obviously it is either an attempt to enforce a moral code or to pay for the extra cost in rising a child like that. we, with our wonderful social welfare system cannot do that (we’d wind up taxing ourselves) but they seem to see something that we are missing.

                By the way, there is an answer, if Papa can’t afford to pay for his 17 offspring the concept of the “work house” might be brought back. .

        • “You kicked this off on eduction the other day.”

          Actually, it was the colonel who said he’d post about education 🙂

    • I forgot to add: Bada-boom, Bada-bing! 🙂

    • I WONDER WHY?

      • So, tell us why?

        • Perception. Unfortunately, it is perception based on reality. With less than 12% of the population (and falling) black youth is responsible for what percentage of crime? Yes, most is black on black but the shootings in NY over last weekend (24 to be exact) happened in predominantly black neighborhoods.

          The gangsta culture is rampant, just check out the movies on the upper end of cable TV or watch some rap videos. Total lack of individual responsibility and abdication of societal responsibility.

          • As opposed to the Timothy McVees of America?

            Are you saying that since perception points to accuracy, it’s okay to treat people the way the white vs. black kid were treated in the video? Obviously, both should have been approached and at least asked it was his bike … but only the black kid was … think they might have something to do with any black person’s belief that racism hasn’t gone anywhere in America? Or do you believe that all blacks are criminals waiting to strike? I know you don’t believe that, but can you at least understand some of the racism fears of blacks (law abiding, which far outweight the criminal element in both races, by the way).

            • “tweet” “flag thrown”

              Where/when did he say it was OK?
              “Perception. Unfortunately, it is perception based on reality.”

              Weren’t there some blacks in your video who ignored the white kid? Does that make them “racist”? People do things that make no sense every day and this includes the genius and the idiot. Both/either may push the elevator call button over and over, knowing it doesn’t change how soon it will arrive. Some of this might be subconscious racism. A lot can also be explained when you hit them with something they have never encountered before. The first time they see a crime in public & they are thinking, is this for real???

              And someone offering understanding why people react as they do is not the same as agreeing with their behavior. I wonder where this was filmed? Your northern cities are famous for ignoring cries for help? Bet that wasn’t in the south!!!

    • Just for the record, I probably would either ignore both or confront both.

      • Seeing the tools, I think I would call the police, maybe take his picture. A lot would depend on what I was doing & if I had the time. If I was armed. No violence taking place, so no reason to confront. Start taking his picture, you should be prepared for a confrontation. If he is a criminal, he’s likely to object….

  42. @ BL .. yes, I see the slippery slope, but it will always be up to US (the people) to keep it from getting that absurd. It doesn’t have to be … ever. Your assumption is the paranoid tea bagger one that government will somehow chain us (the never ending commi nonsense) … but the reality is this government is chained by the 1% … do away with it … or at least until it’s a true democracy, let’s put a halt to things that we can control without fear of having our diets regulated (or whatever else you listed). I don’t have the same dark premonitions as you … my faith is in the people (not some constitution that can be read a thousand different ways, no matter who thinks “they” have the correct reading of it).

    • Bottom Line says:

      And by what standard to you judge/determine what is ‘absurd’?

      That’s the thing, Charlie… people are individuals, thus every standard is relative and subjective.

      If it isn’t universal, it is subjective. Therefore we cannot choose any standard for society that isn’t universal. Even trying to determine what is universal is, arguably, subjective.

      How would you like it if someone deemed your books or blog or belief system to be ‘absurd’ ?

      It’s all a paradox. Let go and let god handle it. Worry about your own. Live and let live. Golden rule.

      • “How would you like it if someone deemed your books or blog or belief system to be ‘absurd’ ?

        It’s all a paradox. Let go and let god handle it. Worry about your own. Live and let live. Golden rule.”

        I disagree (strongly), except for my books and blog being absurd … truer words …

        But we conform to generally accepted rules and regulations (drunk driving, smoking inside workplaces, etc.) … no, sometimes we can live with being subjective … in the case of people having kids they can’t afford (or drug addicts/alcoholics) … that can be handled.

        And what about those of us who don’t believe in a God (or have trouble wiht the concept)? We can’t leave it go God.

  43. Bottom Line says:
    • This is your government, brother … the one you support … with technology comes the 1%’s best chance to protect itself …

      • Bottom Line says:

        I am an anarchist/libertarian, remember? I don’t support government.

        And if they have been tapping into my private conversations and internet searches and such(I’m pretty sure they are), they’re probably as entertained as I am.

        If you only knew, Charlie.

        • They don’t get to listen in to me much … I usually burp or fart into the phone when I get a fugazy call … but I’m pretty boring anyway, so there’s no fear here.

          Anarchists are cool … so long as they understand it isn’t going to happen whereby there isn’t a structured society of one form or other … because if there were, chaos would results … and the last thing the 1% want is for people to realize where the real money is.

  44. @ Stephen … “Same with “wrong” behavior. Today you would have a hard time getting two people to “define” it but the “gut”sense is there. Some clown fathering 17 children by different women is “wrong”. Some guy knocking up a woman and then leaving her to raise the child alone is wrong. ”

    Yes, it is … but it is what it is (today/our reality) … how did you think it would turn out otherwise, is my question to you? You have people living in shit (literally–read the book I mentioned on my blog about Thurgood Marshall–we’re talking 1946, after black fought for the same country that would lynch them if they didn’t “behave themselves” … did you think people who lived under those kinds of threats for their entire lives would suddenly turn white? Adopt the rules of their oppressor?

    Across the board (society in general), I agree … and I prefer the end of Barbarians at the Gate when the judge says, “Go home and be decent” … but decency is long on the decline. I can’t tell you how many fights I got into or nearly got into on subways (as recently as 3 years ago) when kids talks very dirty smack during rush hour and I opened my mouth (and was laughed at to the point of my head almost exploding) … at some point, I look around and see I’m the only dope getting involved … you learn to protect your own and walk away sometimes … like you said, you either ignore both in the video or say something to both … you’re right about workhouses for chumps who have kids and walk away … I’m fine with that too … remember, I’m the big statist in the crowd 🙂

    • Charlie, my Mom was a great believer in walking. Every Sunday, after Mass, we would go for a walk. Living on 171st Street, sometimes we would go uptown and sometimes down. We walked and we window shopped. Stores were closed due to those nasty Sunday Blue Laws we used to have (big church-state issue somehow). Might have been an egg cream in there somewhere to reward my sister and myself and of course my long suffering father. When we walked South, we walked into Harlem. 145th Street was our destination which was a major shopping street before the riots burned it down in the ’60’s and the junkies took over. We never ever had a problem.Alongside us were Harlem residents, Dads, Moms and kids, dressed in their Sunday best and doing exactly what we did.

      I was a very fortunate guy growing up in Washington Heights. Blacks lived in the same area but not on our blocks though the Puerto Ricans were integrated for some reason. We all went to school together, worked together, rode the Subway together and shared seating on the buses. In the ’50’s and early ’60’s, there was no difference in how we lived. If they were imitating us, which I doubt, they did an excellent job of hiding that imitation. There are times I wish my Dad was alive so I could ask him this type question. I’m pretty sure he would have told me that this was a normal standard of behavior for everybody, black and white.

      I can’t speak to the South other than to be astonished at their behavior. My Dad used to say that the South would ultimately integrate better than the North. When as teenager in the time of Selma and Bull Conner I asked him why, he pointed out that the only difference between a black sharecropper and white sharecropper was skin color. Once the poor whites figured that out and realized that the power structure goaded them on in their racism, it would all be over. Up North, we were big on talking the talk but could not walk the walk. Right after that, when he was still alive, the school busing riots among the whites broke out in places like Boston. As our old neighborhood integrated I am proud that my parents did not run away. Might just have been the cheap rent-controlled rent but a whole lot of folks poorer than us took off. When my dad died in “84, it was those “new” people who helped my Mom out.

      I have always respected the Depression/WW 2 generation and I listened to them. They had “life experience” that I would never have. When I worked in Harlem and sat down to BS with my older tenants who were mostly my Mom’s age, they were just as appalled at the behavior of their teens as my Mom was with the white teens in the hood. Can’t tell you how many times people like Mrs. Butler would yell at the boys to hike up their pants or put their caps on with the brim forward. For that matter, she was a stickler on holding doors open for ladies too.

      You are right about the shortage of decency. Held a door for an older lady at church the other day and she made it a big deal. Just kinda jumped out of my mouth that my father raised me to be gentleman no matter how much I might object.

      For your entertainment and enjoyment, little history from the old hood.

      http://www.uptowncollective.com/2013/06/05/long-ago-a-pilot-landed-on-an-uptown-street-thats-where-the-bar-was-ny-times/

      • Stephen, I always (I mean this) enjoy your recollections. You should put this stuff together for a book (in all seriousness). I grew up in Canarsie. The next neighborhood over was Brookline (projects) and east new york (they were as close to ghettos as it gets). On Livonia Avenue, it was a ghetto. Canarsie’s demographics changed dramatically when I left for North Dakota (college) … by the time I returned, it was mostly black and Starrett City (where I lived when I was first married) was the place to live while saving for a house. Canarsie’s housing prices are about as prohibitive today as they were at any time during my youth (mostly Carribean/West Indian) population …

        I hate how kids act today (cursing on trains in front of women, using language that offends even me — and trust me, that’s pretty god damn hard) … but I see it from both black and white kids today … here I agree 100% with you … things aren’t getting better and there’s little hope in sight. I say it often to my wife. I’m glad I won’t have to deal with what my granddaughter will have to face when she’s 17 …

        I can see you holding the door and the response … I get it here in dopey Fords, NJ … but at work, amongst lawyers, it’s pretty rare I get a thank you for doing the same thing … so it goes.

  45. On the road in southeast VA where TS Andrea is passing through. Not much to see in Hampton Va.

    LOI, can you do a new thread for the weekend, got surprised a bit, all is well!

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