Keep it Closed Longer

That’s right, let’s continue to let these idiots make fools of themselves. The Administration is using the National Park Service to do it’s bidding.  Firstly, I will say that  these reported closings are simply for spite and will end up costing more to close them than leave them open.  I would suggest many lawsuits for those who lose money or are kicked from their homes as a result of these decisions.  What I would like to see is Congress and the President not getting paid until they all do their damn jobs, with no backpay!  I would like to see the PEOPLE take back their parks, homes and business’s the idiots claim are closed.  This is a good time to explain to the Feds that this property belongs to the people, not the government.  They are hired to manage the property for the benefit of the people, they have failed and should be fired, all of them!

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Comments

  1. gmanfortruth says:

    This government in DC is a disgrace to this nation, it’s time for some real change!

  2. Judy Sabatini says:

    I believe he’s doing all this just for spite, because the spoiled brat isn’t getting his way.

    http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/10/25530-feds-shut-down-amber-alerts-but-keep-michelle-obamas-lets-move-program-running/

  3. Reblogged this on Brittius.com.

  4. Reblogged this on Reality Check and commented:
    Good idea.

  5. ” I would like to see the PEOPLE take back their parks, homes and business’s the idiots claim are closed. This is a good time to explain to the Feds that this property belongs to the people, not the government. They are hired to manage the property for the benefit of the people, they have failed and should be fired, all of them! ”

    Might I suggest that the way for the people to take back the park system is to accept responsibility noninclusive of government.

    The reasoning/excuse on the part of government is that there is no longer sufficient funding to maintain the parks for public use.

    Perhaps we the people can organize volunteers to substitute, …or maybe chip in to pay the park rangers who are already familiar with the parks’ ‘norm’ and maintenance schedule.

    In other words… take away the excuse and replace it with accepting responsibility.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      That has already been tried BL! The RNC tried to fund the WWII Memorial, many States haves said they would take over operations of Federal Parks, all to be told NO! by the big bad Feds. What else can anyone do when the answer is NO?

      • ” What else can anyone do when the answer is NO? ”

        Civil disobedience. Do it anyway.

        Is it worth it, or within their means to stop the masses if they so choose against the will of the federal government?

        I don’t think it is worth starting a uprising over unnecessarily keeping parks closed.

        If I am wrong, then I don’t think they have the ultimate means of stopping it when there are so many in the military and police departments that would refuse to fire on citizens. This is why ‘Oath Keepers’ exists.

        How would they deal with a million man march into the parks?

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Civil disobedience. Do it anyway.

          That’s what’s happening, especially by veterans.

          I don’t think it is worth starting a uprising over unnecessarily keeping parks closed.

          Sometimes the triggering event is minimal. An uprising is overdue and needed, time to remind the bums who they work for! 😉
          I’m an “Oath Keeper”, so I’m very familiar with the organization. Not all cops think the same way.

          They couldn’t stop a march unless they are aware and deploy the right people and equipment. Still need that uprising!

          • I have been trying to tell you…..we are not being stopped. There are 2400 of us heading to the parks now…..we will not be stopped. We were not stopped in Washington DC…and we were not stopped at the Veterans Memorial in Arizona….we took down the barricades, cut the locks with bolt cutters and are daring the police. We are not being stopped.

          • I say our representatives need to do their jobs and represent their districts and the people they represent and not the will of their political party. I plan on registering as an independent Monday. If the majority of us would do this our representatives would have to listen and do their jobs for the people and not their party.

        • Million Vet March on the Memorials
          Join fellow Veterans at the war memorials in Washington DC on Sunday October 13th at 9 AM and at memorials across these United States.

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Million-Vet-March-on-the-Memorials/539097822833735

  6. gmanfortruth says:
  7. gmanfortruth says:

    Why do Liberal’s lie so damn much? Can’t believe a damn thing they say anymore. http://thenewsdoctors.com/you-know-that-one-guy-who-successfully-signed-up-for-obamacare-he-didnt/

  8. Stephen K. Trynosky,
    From the previous post:

    my unanswerable question to radicals disguised as liberals (where exactly do YOU think the money is coming from?)

    The Fed creates it – thru printing and simple online transactions.

    That works because the US has always promised to pay its debts, and always has.
    It is the lunatics in the GOP that are threatening the “full faith and credit of the United States.”

    There is no other short-term threat. The GOP is creating UNCERTAINTY to stall the economic recovery and then blame Obama.

    If you can’t see this you’re either blind or stupid – probably both.

    a second unanswerable question. When exactly is it that you reach the point where you cannot compromise any longer without surrendering?

    I think we’ve reached that point with the GOP playing their little games, holding the country hostage so they can get they’re way. It’s time to teach the immature little brats a lesson.

    In case it is too difficult to visualize the concept of compromise=surrender, I throw out Czechoslovakia as history. Just one final compromise made the Second World War inevitable. Don’t dismiss the war analogy, there is that quote about war being politics by another name. There is Civil War underway in this country about where we will be in another 10 or 20 years, still a republican democracy or some proto-fascist semi-dictatorship passing itself off as a “democracy” just as the “peoples democratic republics” do. The Reids and Pelosis keep telling you nothing has changed, nothing has changed. and the fools just keep making excuses to themselves and are ultimately as deluded as the folks on the Titanic who, till the least moment, found it impossible that the ship would sink. I could throw in as a bigger analogy the Jews who until the gas was released in the showers found it impossible that a “civilized” modern country could do to them what it was doing.

    I don’t remember “the Reids and Pelosis keep telling you nothing has changed”?

    You’re right – plenty has changed. The Tea Party, led by the Koch brothers, et al, are leading the GOP around by the nose, and you’re following along like a lemming to the sea…

    I hope you brought your life jacket…

    Any other BIG SCARY “unanswerable questions” you need help with?

    • Yeah. when does the printing press stop? And then what happens to the economy?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        What Todd fails to see is that unless the Debt Ceiling is raised, according to all the idiots in DC, then we can’t pay the US debt (which is BS). If this nation needs more DEBT to pay it’s bills, we’re toast anyway. Maybe Todd don’t get the fact that the money being printed isn’t the property of the US government, but I’ll let him answer that one!

        • Great answer print more money, you are probably right, I’m too stupid to understand that.

          Todd, you have no, nada, zero answers for anything. Led by the nose? speak for yourself buddy. Too bad you never met that Jim Jones fellow, he had a story you would have loved.

          Seems that the Tea Party was first founded in Bush Admin. as a response to TARP. What would you ever do without the Koch brothers?

        • Gman,
          If we hit the debt limit, the Obama Administration will have to break one of three laws, because they’re contradictory:

          1. The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling
          2. The Federal Reserve Act that prohibits the Fed from lending directly to the Treasury
          3. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned

          They’ll break #1 – and exceed the debt limit without Congressional Approval – and they’ll follow #3 – and uphold the Full Faith and Credit of the USA under the 14th amendment – because the 14th amendment trumps the laws passed by Congress.

          If the Republicans (or anyone) objects, it will go to court and the “The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling” will be declared unconstitutional because it violates the 14th amendment.

          We’ll no longer have these silly debt-ceiling battles. If Congress authorizes some spending and the President signs the bill into law, the Administration is bound by that law to implement it – and borrow the money if necessary to do so.

          http://www.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-economist-if-we-breach-the-debt-ceiling-jack-lew-must-decide-which-law-to-break-2013-10

          • There is more than enough incoming taxes to cover the interest on the debt. Any maturing bonds can be rolled over as they will be under the current debt ceiling. The issue is new spending since the actual government operations (less entitlements) is almost entirely funded by debt. Obviously there will be a cash flow problem and bills will need to prioritized just like most businesses due in hard times. There are a lot of scare tactics being used that only make the situation worse. Is the objective to panic the markets and create a crash? Once more government creates the problem so it can be a hero and solve it. There are no heroes. All are guilty of political manipulation.

            • You don’t seem to comprehend that the 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned. That doesn’t mean you pay some of your bills. Or you pay them when cash becomes available. It means you pay them all on time.

              Here’s a little exercise for you: Next month, pay just your mortgage or rent. Don’t pay any other bills – car loans, credit cards, utilities, insurance, medical bills, etc. See how that affects your credit rating…

              • Here is an even better test. Don’t set a budget….live outside of your income…..continue to borrow money from creditors to make your ends meet….only pay the interest…..see what happens to your credit rating AND your cash flow.

              • I don’t have a mortgage, I owe no man or company, my bills are paid, I don’t get any gov’m’t money, and yet I pay medical expenses that exceed 4x the poverty limit. And yes I do pay taxes and yes those taxes are used to pay for deadbeats who do not know how to get an education, get a good job, sire children like rabbits, welch on their mortgages then expect a bail out and now want me to pay their medical bills too.

              • Ditto T-Ray. Always waiting for the rainy day. After a 15 year career with a company lost the job to the bosses new husband. Had paid off the mortgage three months before. No mountain house, no beach house, no wild vacations. Pay as you go. Got the kids interested in affordable colleges not their “dream” school. Squeezed 17 years and 220 thou miles out of the Nova. Retired earlier than I wanted but am in a good position because of the plans I made. Was lucky in that the in-laws helped along the way . Their modest bequest to us still sits for a rainy day. Plan, plan, plan. Most of the time 80% of that will go up in smoke but 20% can still get you by.

                What I do not want to see and won’t take a chance on is the wild double digit inflation that will take out everything I, my wife, my parents, my in-laws worked for in a flash. Had a taste of 20% mortgage rates in the ’80’s. Did not like it much.

                What my young friends don’t seem to understand is the loss of purchasing power. Uncle Pete used to say that the Wrigley gum guy ought to be president since he kept gum at a nickle a pack for forty some years. If you track prices, there has been a 1,000% increase on essentials, food, housing, transportation since the mid ’60’s. So the faux 100,000 I may have in the bank sounds great until I stack it up to 10,000 in 1964.

                When the Soviet Union collapsed, the first thing to go was security for the elderly. With the ruble cut 90% in value overnight, the old literally starved to death and nobody either really reported on it or gave a shit. But, Todd and his boyos believe “It can’t happen here, IT CAN NEVER F—— HAPPEN HERE.” We, ain’t God. Is, always was and always will be is for the deity, not humans.

              • T-Ray,
                Once again you miss the point and go off on an anti-gobernt, anti-people-you-don’t-know rant.

                If you don’t pay all your bills, your credit rating drops.

                It’s already happening because investors are worried that Boehner is just crazy enough to let the US default.

              • Todd I missed nothing. I know how credit works. The first lesson is do not overextend yourself and you will not have a credit problem. This government has grossly over extended itself. Until sequester, we were funding the entire operating budget of the government (all payments except entitlements and debt service) from borrowed funds. This was totally irresponsible. Whenever the republicans wanted to discuss spending cuts, the demagogues shouted, no you will hurt the economy. Hence no action was taken. There was lots of low hanging fruit that could have been cut that would not have impacted the economy one bit. But it became sacrosanct and could not be touched. Plus much of the Stimulus Bill just added more waste to the pile.

                Yes, if the debt ceiling is not raised there will be issues but default on the debt is not one of them or need not be one of them. There is more than enough money to cover interest and debt service. What will be impacted will be current outstanding bills and new expenditures over and above the remaining income. Some bill payments can be delayed. Corporations do this all the time. Net 30 becomes net 45 or 90. Our current current deficit is about $600B or about $50B/mo. So out of a $2.5T budget or $200B/mo budget, we need to delay spending $50B/mo until the the ceiling is raised. That is a 25% delay in expenditures for the few days of this grid lock. This is entirely feasible and any rational CEO would manage it. Unfortunately our current executive is spending more on the NP Service closures than it would to keep them open on a normal basis all for political gain. This is just one example of his incompetence as a fiscally responsible executive.

                As for the “anti-people-you-don’t-know” rant, I hear radio ads daily for government backed mortgage assistance. Buying a home is a risk. Buying a home that is worth far more than you can afford in the hopes of its value escalating is speculation. Buying a home and then extracting all of the equity from it to buy boats, vacations, etc. and then crying about it and accepting my tax dollars to escape the consequences is theft. Read the book Unintended Consequences by Edward Conard. He explains how those who lost their homes in the bubble were not as devastated financially as the crying dems made them out to be. When buying a home, any lawyer will tell you to read the contract. I certainly do. I also calculate the interest and principle payments and frequently have the number faster than the banker can look it up in his table. The calculations are simple. I do not feel sorry for people who gambled and lost and I certainly resent them expecting me to bail them out.

                As for the markets, they are being panicked by Sec. Lew and the President and their sycophantic press. It is just another example of fools being separated from their money.

      • There’s no need to stop the printing press. If the GOP would stop being OBSTRUCTIONISTS and stop creating UNCERTAINTY to stall the economic recovery, the US economic recovery would be much stronger & faster. We’d be on a path to reduce the deficit and eventually the debt.

        • Why, pray tell, is there no need to stop the printing presses? Did Wiemar never happen? Did the chickens not come home to roost in the late ’70’s after a decade of uncontrolled money printing?

          This I need to hear!

          Did someone neglect to read you “The Emperor Has No Clothes” and “the Golden Goose” fables as a child?

    • Testing to see if this works…

      http://postimg.org/image/5p84cablf/

  9. T-Ray,
    From the previous post:

    Reid has run roughshod over the Senate for the last 5 years. He limits amendments to bills that only he approves, he allows votes on bills that only he approves. How many democrats would vote to delay ObamaCare? We do not know because Reid will not allow the vote. So the House is using what little leverage it has to force the issue. Boohoo.

    And Reid and the senate are is using what little leverage they have to block the house. Boohoo back at ya!

    We have had a runaway spending problem in DC for the last 12 years. It has accelerated for six of the last 7 years, ever since the democrats took control of Congress. That is until the last budget/debt ceiling “artificial crisis” forced sequestration on us.

    Bull. Show me some numbers.

    As for the Tea Party, I am tired of the left and the MSM constantly maligning them. They represent a far bigger fraction of this country than you realize.

    Let’s see your numbers? I know how big they are – are you sure you do?

    They are not wild eyed idiots or racists.

    Yeah – they pretty much are.

    They are average people who are tired of wasteful, over-reaching, over-taxing, over-spending government.

    No, they’re average people who didn’t give shit about any of this when Bush was doing it. But now something’s “different”…

    I am tired of Obama using government as his own fiefdom, of using the DoJ, IRS, EPA, and now Interior for his own personal political ends. I am tired of him ruling by dictate.

    What a joke. You really believe this crap you’re being spoon fed?

    Surely, Todd, you do not support his use of Interior to close the monuments, parks, Mt. Vernon, private hotels, private homes, money making air shows, NFL games for the troops…. But of course we can’t close Camp David or the golf course at Andrews AFB.

    Your blame is missed placed. Obama can’t spend money without the Congress authorizing it. All appropriation bills must start in the House.
    It’s the House GOP that is causing the shutdowns.
    If the Obama administration had kept some of this stuff open, you’d be screaming for impeachment.

    If the House gives up whatever leverage they have, just when will we get a real discussion on entitlements, on deficit reduction, on the EPA attack on coal and global warming efforts, a full accounting of Benghazi, a full accounting of the IRS scandal, and an honest review of ObamaCare? Where is the laser that Obama promised to take to the federal budget? Unfortunately these debates have not and probably will not happen due the demagoguery, mean spiritedness, name calling, and just plain intransigence that comes from the left and the MSM.

    More childish ranting’s. Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Just like the GOP and the “scandal a week”…and you keep falling for them.

    As for ObamaCare, it needs to be scrapped. It does not address costs but makes them worse. We are already seeing the costs in jobs, work hours, and dropped medical plans. We are adding thousands of bureaucrats to the system that add no value but do add costs. Government now has not only our financial records but all of our medical records as well. Do you really trust this will end well? Not only that, ObamaCare is unconstitutional despite the SCOTUS ruling. If it is a penalty, then it is for lack of commercial activity that occurs intrastate, hence is not covered by the interstate commerce clause. A penalty requires due process be followed which will not happen. If it is a tax, it is one that is not uniformly accessed upon the states, it is not an excise tax (must have commercial activity), nor is it an income tax; hence it is illegal. Since it did not originate in the House as all tax measures must, it again is an illegal tax.

    Same thing – blah, blah, blah…maybe we another “T-Ray’s 10 principles to save the world”…

    Todd, I agree, we need to sweep the democrats out of office at the next election and make the Tea Party the majority. It is time to put some brakes on this runaway, intrusive, tyrannical government.

    Once again, you keep believing the crap you’re being fed.

    You do realize there was an election about 11 months ago?
    Obama won the Presidency.
    Democrats gained seats in the House.
    Democrats gained seats in the Senate.

    Mostly thanks to the Tea Party idiots who just can’t keep their mouths shut – or who are too stupid to realize what they’re saying.

    I’m pretty sure history will repeat itself. There’s no indication the Tea Party is backing down. If anything their rhetoric is increasing.

    Keep up the good work!!

    • Fight the good fight, Todd!

    • I have to admit, I thought most people’s eyes would finally be open to some of the real issues. Apparently not. What a fool you are, Todd.

      • Hey Kathy,
        Being a Tea Party supporter, you’ll appreciate this:

        How the Kochs and their Friends Engineered the Federal Shutdown, Part One
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/how-the-kochs-and-their-f_b_4040698.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

        The blog of Playboy headlined, and then quickly eliminated, a historic article by Mark Ames and Yasha Levine, on 27 February 2009, “Exposing the Rightwing PR Machine,” which the authors subsequently posted at their own exiledonline.com. It documents the creation, by the Koch brothers, of what soon became known (in the mainstream “news” media) by such bogus phrases as “the Tea Party grassroots movement,” but which was pure astroturf, fake all the way. They reported on “the launch event of a carefully organized and sophisticated PR campaign” on February 19th, “using the CNBC airwaves for publicity, for some of the craziest and sleaziest rightwing oligarch clans this country has ever produced. … All of these roads ultimately lead back to … FreedomWorks, … funded by Koch money.” Soon, this “Tea Party” would be much in the news with its suckers raising hell against Obama’s “death panels” and other oligarch-manufactured “grassroots” complaints. This was a superb exemplar of the George-Orwell-warned “Big Brother” lies, which would soon engulf the major “news” media, as “news.” The Ames/Levine article was perhaps the most important and most skillful piece of investigative journalism in years, but it was so hot that even Playboy would be too mainstream a news-medium to remain associated with it, even as a mere blog item.

    • Re parliamentary tricks: So Todd, Reid and his democrat friends in the Senate can use whatever parliamentary trick available but when the republicans in the House do it, it is being unreasonable. It’s tit for tat. Time to negotiate.
      Re: Debt: You want the numbers. For the 6 fiscal years of a mostly republican congress starting in fiscal year 10/2000 thru 9/2007, debt went from $5.7T to $9T, the deficit from $133B to $500B and peaked at $596B in 2003-2004. For the democrat congressional years starting in 10/2007 the debt has gone from $9T to %16.7T and the deficit from $1T to $0.68T peaking at $1.8T. So the republican Congress under Bush raised the debt by $3.3T while the democrat Congress under Bush and Obama has raised it $7.7T more than double. As for where were the TP members, they movement did not exist until after TARP and Stimulus demonstrated the outlandish runaway spending problems along with Obama’s incessant demand for increased taxes. The first signs of a tax and spend revolt however was the 2006 election when republicans stayed home and did not support the big spenders in Congress. SUFA did not exist yet, but if it did you would have heard me rant about the out of control spending even then. If you did not like it under Bush, why are you supporting it now?
      http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

      Re Size of TP: The most recent numbers I could find are for 2011. At that time the size of the TP was pegged at 22% as opposed to liberals at 21%. The TP is not a small movement. I venture to guess that a lot more would identify openly with the TP if it were not for lies and name calling from the left. I do not call over 1/5th of the nation a small insignificant fraction. Nor does a group this size represent dingbats and idiots at least not any more so than the liberals. Their message is one of fiscal responsibility and limited constitutional government. What is not to like about that.
      http://bluecollarphilosophy.com/2011/08/tea-party-movement-equals-the-size-of-the-liberal-population/

      Re Government by dictate: So the president is now free to pick and chose which laws he will implement and defend. He is free to use the IRS as a political tool. He is free to implement CO2 reduction despite the fact that CO2 is not a pollutant under the Clean Air Act despite what SCOTUS or Congress say. He is free to run guns across the Mexican border to gin up support for gun control. He is free to run guns to Syria and when caught to let men die to cover his tracks. He is free to spend more money to block access to national parks and memorials than it does run them despite the government shut down and for his own political purposes. This was his choice not Congress’. He is free to make war on foreign countries w/o Congressional approval. He is free to alter immigration laws and permit illegals to stay in this country to pursue his own political agenda. Now be honest. Change the name of the President from Obama to Bush and tell us that you would not be outraged by these acts. I may have been spoon fed crap but they have shoveled BS on you.

      Re Childish rants: Bush tried to get a discussion going on SS. He was shouted down. No intelligent discussion was allowed. Cantor and Ryan tried to get a debate going on budgets and entitlements only to be accused of throwing granny under the bus. We have a $90T entitlement time bomb ticking away and we cannot have a rational discussion on it. Obama was elected because he promised to bring unity. But in the first bipartisan meeting in the WH, he basically said my way or the highway. I can think of no better way to start a feud than that. That is exactly what he did. He promised to take a laser to the federal budget to cut waste and fraud. Instead we just got more of the same in the Stimulus bill. We have yet to have a rational discussion on debts, deficits, and money policy. These are discussion that Obama should be leading but he is missing in action. No he is the road block.

  10. gmanfortruth says:

    Todd says “The Fed creates it – thru printing and simple online transactions”

    100% correct! And “That works because the US has always promised to pay its debts, and always has.”

    2 for 2 Todd, not bad. Problem! the debt is almost 17 TRILLION bucks, and the US don’t have the industrial base to pay that anymore. This isn’t the 1970’s anymore. What are we going to pay it with? Just curious, because I have no idea how this debt will ever get paid, do you?

    • gmanfortruth says:

      P.S. I don’t give a rat’s ass about the tea party BS, which is all it is, BS. It’s the Liberal’s little boogieman that they can cry wolf over. Total BS!

      • G- If it was not the tea party it would be some other boogyman. It is always the extreme, right wing conservatives but no matter how off the wall the other side gets, they are never extreme, nor left wing, not even on Fox.

        Frankly, I’ m tired of this shit, been dealing with it since Goldwater in ’64. Always the same thing. Never any answers from the other side, certainly not on money. Hell, even I’m willing to admit that the crash and inflation in the late ’70’s was not Carters fault. Johnson decided to have a war on poverty and a war in Vietnam at the same time and just kept printing money. Nixon pretty much kept it up pulling some financial stunts to hold off the inevitable. If the GOP were smart, they would allow the Dems to win the Presidency in ’16, keep the Senate and have the next crash hang round their neck for the rest of the Century!

        Just have visions of what Ludwig Marx told me Berlin was like in the early ’20’s. A billion Marks for loaf of bread, two billion tomorrow. HS Batman!

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Add the Koch Bros to the list. Two guys that just drive the Liberals nuts, gotta love ’em.

  11. Even big business and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce are abandoning the Tea Party. They’ll make campaign donations to Republicans that vote to end the government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, and then face Tea Party primary challenges.

    With Traditional GOP Allies Defecting, Big Business Takes Sides With Obama
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/with-traditional-gop-allies-defecting-big-business-leaders-take-sides-with-obama

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Yet you claim the Tea Party is a Big Business creation.

      Hmmmmmmm. Something doesn’t add up.

      • It’s not a Big Business Creation. It’s a political creation of the Koch brothers. They seem to be fine with their Frankenstein – they have a different agenda…

        • Just A Citizen says:

          If the Koch brothers were not Big Business you left wingers wouldn’t give a rats ass who they were or who they supported.

          I do find it funny though how the left hate these guys and are always trying to make them look like “conservatives” when they have traditionally funded more “libertarian” groups and activities.

  12. For those who think we actually have a recovering economy:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/the_cold_hard_facts_of_obamas_economy_comments.html#disqus_thread

    “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work….After eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…and an enormous debt to boot!” Henry Morgenthau 1939.

    • That’s because in 1937, when the recovery was starting, conservatives convinced FDR to cut spending to stop inflation…and the recovery faltered.

      If there’s a lesson here, it’s that we should keep spending.

      Thanks for making my point.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        I suggest a little more research.

        • Oh you’re right – it was cutting federal spending to stop inflation and tightening monetary policy with the Treasury Department’s decision to sterilize all gold inflows starting in December 1936….

          So we need to keep spending and printing money!!

          Thanks for pointing out my oversight JAC!!

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Todd

            The “monetary policy” of the time has been shown by some scholars to be more responsible for the up tick in the economy, not the down turn.

            Which of course refutes the left’s claims that the New Deal policies were responsible for turning the tide.

            Oh, and lets not forget what CAUSED the Depression in the first place. BUBBLE, bubble, toil and trouble.

            • JAC,
              Yes, the monetary policy helped, until the Treasury Department cut the money supply.

              And yes, the Depression was started by a BUBBLE. Just like the lead up to the 2008 recession, a huge income gap lead to a bubble that eventually burst.

              Those who forget (or deny) history, are bound to repeat it…again and again…

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Todd

                You are trying to claim that an income gap was responsible for the bubble??

                That certainly is an entirely new view of economic cause/effect.

  13. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    You asked for budget data.

  14. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    “Ok – so give an example where Soros dubbed 22% of the population into acting like idiots to support his goals?”

    What was the percentage of the vote that Obama got this last time?? 🙂

    • What was the percentage of the vote that Obama got this last time?? 🙂

      51.1% (+3.9)

      But really, I think you’d have to thank McCain for that one..

      And, by the way, I think I’ll take this opportunity to remind you that is a MAJORITY of Americans.

      • Ahhhhh….that was the majority of the Americans that voted.

        • As the Fonz would say Colonel, “Correctamundo!”

          There were those several million conservatives who stayed home, same with Romney. Don’t really take much of a position on that these days. Used to be opposed to sitting it out and I voted for the lesser of two evils but have rethought that to an extent. Guys like Bush, McCain, Romney, give conservatives a bad name. We get blamed for their screw ups. There is no up side for us in voting them in.

          • And there weren’t several million liberals who stayed home also? Or did only conservatives stay home while 100% of the liberals voted in lock-step?

            The only test we have of where the country stood on election night was the tally of the people who bothered to show up.

            And of those people, 4,982,296 more people voted for Obama than Romney and 64.4mm more than voted for the next guy (Johnson, who got my vote, by the way).

            So the only evidence we have suggests that The People of this country wanted to be led by a center-left liberal named Barack Obama and not by (center-right) McCain or (real-crazy) Ted Cruz.

            And, hell, just for the fun of it, I’ll point out that the Blue Shirts won the senate race by 10mm votes and the house race by a collective 1.7mm votes. Only the staggered election cycle and massive gerrymandering kept the Red Shirts from getting swept out with the tide.

            The country made its will known. Stop being a sore loser.

            • Only Republican states gerrymander? I’m not sure which liberals stayed home. Were they traditional voters who voted every time except this race? Were they the ones like many Republicans who voted locally but not nationally? Bottom line is that 58% of eligible voters voted in 2012. That is with illegals and felons removed from the gross number. So, as the man says, we get the government we deserve. All our presidents are elected without a plurality some just have higher percentage than others but in the scheme of things, with 42% not voting, winning by a point or two or three really does not say much and certainly is not a mandate.

              I don’t particularly see a dimes worth of difference between Bush and Obama that really matters. Bush talked the talk but never walked the walk. People were so disgusted with him that in reality, “none of the above” won. He was tone deaf, Obama is tone deaf. Both are caught up in their delusions.

              As an aside, I just heard someone on the radio bad-mouth Cruz a la, “how dare he do what he is doing, he has no track record!” That to me says it all bout both the low information voter and in this case the low information Congressman.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              More stupid arguments from smart people.

              The House and Senate races ARE NOT NATIONAL races. They do not depend on a TOTAL VOTE COUNT of any kind.

              Blaming Gerrymandering for the House remaining Republican is nothing more than political rhetoric. Unless of course they are willing to admit that Gerrymandering was the ONLY REAOSON Democrats controlled the house for 40 years or more.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Mathius

        Apparently you missed the point. It had NOTHING to do with who won or how many supported X, Y or Z.

        The question was How many did OBAMA dupe.

        Answer………….How many voted for him??

    • No, you’re both trying to deflect the topic. Democrats were around long before Soros and Obama.

      But Tea Partier’s didn’t exist until the Koch brothers stirred them up, threw them a whole bunch of tainted red-meat, and **poof** you have a whole bunch of Tea Partier’s running around in tri-corner hats! It’s like the Koch brothers just whipped up a little 3-ring circus for their own enjoyment.

      I’ll bet they’re still laughing!!

      • Just A Citizen says:

        And I’ll bet your WRONG. But apparently you have internalized this propaganda.

        Please read your links again. Notice that these supposed connection are conjecture beyond showing that the Kochs donated to certain organizations. None of which were involved in the beginning of the Tea Party Movement.

        Now did existing organizations, those affiliated with conservatives, rhinos and libertarians jump in? Yes they did. AFTER the whole thing got rolling.

        The most obvious flaw in the argument is the connection to Freedom Works. I have posted here many times that Freedom Works and the off shoot Tea Party Express were NOT part of nor organized by the Tea Party Movement which came to call themselves the Tea Party Patriots.

        The Tea Party consisted of PEOPLE, all of whom EXISTED before the Kochs did anything. Hell most people I knew who got involved early on never even heard of these people or these other organizations. In fact many were not watching Fox News yet. But they sure started soon after because it was the only network giving them any credibility or coverage.

  15. Hey JAC…..you should be out here. The looks and stares from the police when we tear down the barricades and cut police tape…..

    • Wish I was there Colonel. I see the pics of the veteran’s groups out around the country…I keep trying to pick out…you’d laugh to see who I’ve picked you as.. 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13

      I should indeed. The day is coming soon when I can join you on some of your “fun” adventures.

      Meanwhile I keep poking them around here, wherever it might do some good.

      In case ya’ll didn’t know this the National Forests have been SHUT DOWN. This means that you can be ticketed, fined, etc for just setting foot on National Forest lands. Which means that Hunters are about to clash with the Feds across the country.

      Oh, the Order closing the Forests REQUIRES posting of a CLOSED sign. So if NO SIGN then they can’t enforce the general closure on you.

      • Actually, the National Parks are closed and the US Forestry Lands are open. Presents. A conundrum of sorts….the lands are open but camp grounds are closed….
        However, in New Mexico and Colorado alone, there have been over 400 closed signs taken down, barriers removed….up to and including the highway concrete barriers put out.

        If I were an officer of the Forestry Service, I sure would not interfere..we are challenging them openly. None are drawing weapons, no tickets being issued, no arrests being made. That is probably because we are organized into 7 man strike teams. A single or two man police team will be no match….and we are not armed. So, pulling a weapon on unarmed vets is going to be the wrong thing to do.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          d13

          The ORDER for NF lands was issued last week. It amounts to an “area closure” BUT must be designated with Closed signs.

          So if no sign then you are free to enter per the normal CLOSURE, ie Travel Plan, designations.

          By the way, there may only be two one time and a hundred the next. Depends on the “attitude” of the local officers and the pressure at the National level. Which by the way is coming from the White House, NOT the head of the agency itself.

  16. Kathy…….do not go by any of the reports or things that are from Huffington Post. They are useless. The same for Fox, CNN, MSNBC…..Politifact………all useless.Everyone of them, without exception, manipulate the numbers to further their agenda. It will take longer but research the government reports….they are actually pretty consistent. But you must compare the actual years. You also have to be an accountant of sorts….the government reports give you the data but they will not do the work for you.

    I fell victim to the “links” thing on the internet and mistakenly have used the links, in the past, to report data. I have since then learned that the majority of the links do not reference actual government data but will “link” to other “links”. People will take this for granted. It is utter hogwash.

    Example: The unemployment report that comes out around the first of the month is not the actual employment report….it is a snapshot. The real numbers always come out a week or ten days later after the filter. Remember that the UE numbers are always skewed by the number of people that have dropped out of the work force and are not counted in the UE numbers. Things like this. There is government produced data out there that shows the “ACTUAL” UE rate at levels around 15-18%. Not this 7.2 that you see bandied about.

    You will always get the mantra that government is different from individuals. This is hokum. It is real easy to differentiate between the two. Apply your own principles to the government. Do you have a budget? yes/no? Pretty simple. If you do, does your budget include all spending…..ALL SPENDING? Yes/no? Do you, as a family or individual, run a continual deficit spending? Yes/No? If you do run a deficit, how are you paying your bills? Do you borrow what you don’t have to make up your deficit? Do you include the interest payments in your next budget? See? It is all pretty simple.

    A government can and must run a balanced budget. It MUST stay within the budget. There are only three ways a government can raise money. Taxes..borrow..print. There is no fourth method.

    The other thing you must completely understand is how our form of government is supposed to work when it comes to money. You must thoroughly understand…and I mean thoroughly understand….what inflation is ( a true test of recovery ), adjusted inflation, deficit, short term debt debt vs long term debt, cash flow, and, I really love this one, “seasonably adjusted inflation”. Remember………….in all of this……………apply your own principles.

    Remember this adage: Figures don’t lie…but liars can figure. I earned a lesson well from my father, who learned from his father. My grandfather was a bankruptcy attorney during, what has been termed the Great Depression. He worked thousands of cases and there was only one thing that he learned from all of that time period. When you are out of money, you are out of luck. You cannot spend your way out of trouble. It has never worked, is not working now, and will never work.

  17. In recent memory, not like something way, way back in the Dark Ages, Clinton (The president before Bush) and Newt Gingrich cut a series of deals. The end result of those deals was a reduced budget or at lest a slower growing budget and reduced deficits. There actually was, the possibility of creating surplus in a reasonable amount of time. With the disappearance of both Clinton and Gingrich, (both of which were necessary) all that seems to have been lost in the ensuing years.

    Personally I cannot blame any democrat since their modus operandi has always been to spend more money than exists (children). It has always been the republican responsibility to point out this does not work, rein in the horses and make people who like free stuff unhappy (adults). Generally speaking that has worked well for the country until the advent of Tom Delay. Tom liked to be popular and popular to him was giving away stuff too (a mentally challenged child).

    Today, we are told that cutting deals is impossible. We are stuck with a health Plan for all which is not really for all, an intransigent president whom I feel is quite ready to default the entire country rather than bargain or even talk (Tom Delay’s stupider brother?) and the people being blamed are the ones who merely deliver the bad news .

    Too bad the snatch did not work out so well in Somalia can’t quite distract the public with less than half a success in Libya. While they were at it why not get the Benghazi guys? I’ve already heard the liberal pundits hoping against hope that this guy was involved in that too.

  18. Seen and heard too much about the shooting in DC. My first thought, if I were there, would have been “CAR BOMB”. Gonna stop her and ask for ID? Gonna take the time to see that it was a baby and not a doll in the back seat? That is the kind of crap that routinely has gotten soldiers killed from Lebanon through Iraq and now in Afghanistan.

    As unhappy as I am with the militarization of the police round the country and the hut! hut! hut! mentality, I cannot fault anyone here.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      SK

      I can. I saw the video when they had her stopped and they were standing only inches away.

      At that point they showed the restraint NOT TO FIRE.

      They also blew it on the car chase. They had her trapped in the circle in front of the Capital. But instead of stopping the following cares simply continued following the front cars, in a Circle, just like one of those chase scenes in the movies.

      As I said before, she probably got shot because the DC police have a different mind set when it comes to things like this anywhere near the Federal bldgs.

  19. gmanfortruth says:
  20. gmanfortruth says:

    Very interesting! I have not heard of this before (this CT slipped right on past me, I’m getting old 😦 ). http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/obama-ready-to-shutdown-16-u-s-states/60487

  21. WTH – How is this even legal? And still some want them in charge of healthcare? And you don’t believe there will be death panels?

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-waivers-granted-nevada-and-new-hampshire_567465.html#

    • Just A Citizen says:

      THIS is why Nevadans voted for Reid in the last election.

      HE CAN BRING HOME THE GOODIES.

  22. I like the TeaParty, at least the ideal behind it, Taxed Enough Already. Ted Cruz is a TeaPartier & it was key to his election. It appears they are his real beliefs and values, not just what he said to get elected. He has been criticized by his own party, but stood firm. I questioned it when several Repugs seemed willing & eager to support Obama on Syria. When such strange bedfellows find common cause, we should all wonder what they are up to! I can understand Todd blaming only the Repug’s while holding Obama/Reid blameless. Pure partisanship, but understandable. But I am baffled by the eminent tax reformists, Grover Norquist attacking Cruz. Again, I have to wonder about strange bedfellows. Makes me think Norquis has thrown in and joined the Republican establishment. Shame, I kinda liked him….

    October 8, 2013
    Answer this Question, Grover
    By J. Robert Smith

    The mainstream media loves it when conservatives step out to criticize… conservatives. Hence, the gleeful coverage of Grover Norquist’s criticism of Ted Cruz. Norquist used the Washington Post’s WONKBLOG feature to unload on Cruz. He did so to the Post’s Ezra Klein last Wednesday.

    The gist of Norquist’s criticism of Cruz is that he’s the Music Man. With a smile and a lot of glib talk and airy promises — and a few snappy tunes — Cruz duped enough House Republicans and grassroots conservatives into backing a play to defund ObamaCare that had a snowball’s chance in hell of passing. Moreover, Cruz’ maneuver succeeded only in disrupting the Republicans’ well-calibrated strategy, vexing GOP insiders.

    But Richard A. Viguerie, a maker of the Reagan Revolution, and very much committed to making another conservative revolution, writing in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, had this to say about Cruz, et al:

    Sens. Lee and Cruz have, through their principled opposition to funding ObamaCare, re-energized millions of grassroots conservative voters who were turned off by the Republican establishment’s content-free technocratic campaign in 2012.

    A key feature of the insiders’ strategy was to push for a one-year delay in ObamaCare’s individual mandate. A delay in the individual mandate would require a vote in the Senate, however (the Republican-controlled House passed the measure).

    The Senate is up for grabs in 2014. Making Democrats vote up or down on a delay would put vulnerable Democratic senators in precarious positions, forcing many to vote for a delay to improve their reelection chances — or with the president, thereby damaging their reelection bids.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/10/answer_this_question_grover.html#ixzz2h9FUs5CF
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    • That’s interesting when you compare smartness gaps to income gaps. We really are creating a “Brave New World” as Huxley predicted. The alphas and the epsilons. This is something Charlie should chew on. The most expensive education system in the world succeeds in guaranteeing failure. Those of us who give a crap guarantee that regardless of our incomes,our children will be prepared.The rest……………….??? Is doomed too strong a word?

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Kathy, Honest question here. Can you prove that elections in the US actually work for the intended purpose?

  23. gmanfortruth says:

    There is nothing to worry about, as I have thought all along 🙄 These people are pathetic, all of them! http://www.prisonplanet.com/members-of-congress-seen-partying-drinking-on-capitol-hill-all-week-during-shutdown.html

  24. gmanfortruth says:

    What more does one need to show that public schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers for the Leftists! http://www.prisonplanet.com/sixth-grade-assignment-destroy-the-bill-of-rights.html

    • Okay, so I come by to stop and see where you wingies are at today and here it is: the rantings of another paranoid wingie: “What more does one need to show that public schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers for the Leftists.”

      Only in Am-er-I-cha! 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      gman

      Please explain how this assignment is attacking, destroying or otherwise impairing the Bill of Rights, or that it is somehow brainwashing the children with ?????

      I actually LIKE the assignment. But I have no idea what the Teacher will do with it. Could be a wonderful learning experience, if done correctly.

      • Why, it’s a liberal thing, so, you know … like … gimme a minute while I spit out some tabacco … if it’s liberal, it’s gotta be wrong, man. You know how them people are …

        And so on … and so on … and so on …

      • JAC, I am with you. I’ve said it before. People in this country assume it was always like it is now and will always be so without any effort on their part. When I teach citizenship in the Scouts, I attack the Bill of Rights and let the kids defend it. Takes some coaxing usually but it works.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Nothing JAC, just makes more sense to try this with kids with a higher IQ than Charlie 🙂 Besides 12 year olds don’t understand sex, much less politics.

        But seriously (I was joking), 12 is a little young for this, although, that might be really fun here 🙂

    • You and the author are being knee-jerk here. This is the same thing we right wingers have always accused the left (rightfully so 94.3% of the time) of doing. Make them THINK for God’s sake, make them THINK! From my scouting experience, most of these kids have no clue about the Bill of Rights anyway.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        SK, who is being “knee jerk”? I see an issue at this age and concept.

        • The tone of the article. We already know that the Constitution, to quote another famous NAZI, Von Ribbentrop, is nothing but “a scrap of paper” subject to re-interpretation at any time by unelected judges. So the “fears” that this is sending the wrong idea to kids is way too late. Hopefully the papers submitted and the classroom discussion will get them on the right track. I sure know that if my kids come home with that assignment, I’d pull out my 1963-64 edition for the 11th and 12th grades of, “The Rise of The American Nation” and they would be well schooled and prepared for class. .

  25. Not many here, which is even more to be thankful for. 🙂

  26. gmanfortruth says:

    JAC, to be really serious, would an exercise in rewriting the Bill of Rights be a worthy exercise here?

    • Pick the most absurd thing you can like quartering troops and throw it at them as follows:

      Well, you see, there are these soldiers that are in town as part of the crackdown on terror like that in Boston. There is no place for them to stay. It’s 20 degrees outside, they really should not have to pitch a tent so, the government gave them a writ to allow them to go from house to house. If they find an empty bedroom there, they are allowed by the government to use it. If the homeowner disagrees then you have to wonder whose side the homeowner is on..

      Now, drop that one into a twelve year olds lap and see what happens. Always make it sound REASONABLE.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      GMan

      Actually T Ray started that effort with the “Liberty Amendments”.

      I do believe that SOME re-writing is needed. But most of the Amendments are fine. What is needed is new Amendments that DESTROY the almost 100 years of Progressive Legal rulings that have undermined them.

      • Yes, let’s go back to the early 1900’s.

        No 40 hour work week.
        No overtime pay.
        No work place safety.
        No workers comp.
        No break-time.
        No vacations.

        The list goes on and on.

        All that terrible progress of the last 100 years…

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Yes, lets go back to when we had more freedom. And then lets see whether you silly claims actually come true.

          Shall we at least give it a try? Lets say equal time….around 75 years will be enough to know for sure.

          Oh, and NONE of the things you listed have anything to do with the “Bill of Rights” or the rulings I was referring to.

          Addressing you list requires FIXING and OVERTURNING the legal interpretation of the Commerce Clause that was created from thin air by the 9 Magicians in Black Robes.

          • JAC,
            No, I don’t want to give it a try. I enjoy indoor plumbing, electricity, the internet (well, not ALL parts of it!!), and decent workplace laws.

            But by all means, feel free to venture back and enjoy yourself. Let me know how you enjoy the end of the depression and WW2.

        • This is the demagoguery that I detest. All of these items are part of the contract between the employer and employee. If safeguards are needed they can be done at the state level. The Feds should not be involved as it is not on of the delegated responsibilities. As JAC says it was a usurped authority due to a plastic interpretation of the commerce clause. A “living” constitution is no constitution at all.

          As for the 40 hour work week, for many white collar Americans, that disappeared about 3 decades ago. Until my wife got sick, I typically worked 50-60 hr weeks including some 24 hr days.

          • T-Ray,
            The feds had to step in because states won’t do it. You’ve heard how the Colonel describes his plans for Texas – I say no thanks – but feel free to join JAC.

            And I agree with the long hours for some white collar workers, but it’s quite the same as a sweat shop or foundry. And for the most part you do have more of a choice – forgo the extra hours, but then don’t expect the promotions. I know lots of people who choose that option.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Odd how it never bothers you that the FED had NO AUTHORITY to step in, when you like the result.

              Can’t wait until the Failure to Own a Gun Tax is passed by a Republican House and Senate and signed by a Republican President.

      • Yeah and I only got to #6. There are 5 more I need type up and post. I’ll try to get back to that in the next few nights. I was busy doing some physics tonight.

  27. Colonel,

    I have heard that there is a protest at the Vietnam Memorial scheduled Saturday. Can you confirm?

    Is this to be our “Bonus” march?

  28. Just A Citizen says:

    Very, Very, Very Interesting Article. Only the tip of the iceberg but some interesting names and connections are included.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/democracy-alliance_n_4064495.html

    Notice how they are moving AWAY from the hardball politics and back to MOVEMENT BUILDING.

    Perhaps a reaction to the success of the TEA PARTY MOVEMENT?? Just sayin!

  29. Just A Citizen says:

    Todd

    Serious question.

    WHY do you think the US WILL DEFAULT on its DEBT if the debt limit is not raised?

    • JAC,
      No, Obama will instruct Lew to continue paying all bills as normal per the 14th amendment. The GOP will have a fit and may try to impeach, but Obama can claim he was violating the law to uphold the constitution. But even that will cause problems in the financial markets as they wonder what the outcome of that drawn out battle will be.

      But much damage will (and has already) been done. Credit and “financial strength” are based quite a bit on perception and confidence. The US is taking a big hit on those two because of the hostage taking by the House GOP.

  30. Just A Citizen says:

    Oh by the way folks.

    Looks like a good time to buy up some US Bonds if what I read is true. That the big boys are scared and dumping them like crazy.

  31. The craziness and the paranoia here just keeps growing.

    How many of you were here in the early days of SUFA? Do you remember 2009?

    In June 2009, Chris Devine predicted the US would continue on its current path “with changing policies in mixed economies.” That caused quite the uproar.

    CyndiP said “You need save this post from Chris, and repost in the future when not he will be able to deny what’s happened…..”

    Well, I saved it and Chris was right…

    In June 2009, Black Flag posted this article:

    End of US hegemony on money
    The city of Yakaterinburg, Russia’s largest east of the Urals, may become known not only as the death place of the tsars but of American hegemony too – and not only where US U-2 pilot Gary Powers was shot down in 1960, but where the US-centered international financial order was brought to ground.
    Challenging America will be the prime focus of extended meetings in Yekaterinburg, Russia (formerly Sverdlovsk) today and tomorrow (June 15-16) for Chinese President Hu Jintao, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and other top officials of the six-nation Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). The alliance is comprised of Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrghyzstan and Uzbekistan, with observer status for Iran, India, Pakistan and Mongolia. It will be joined on Tuesday by Brazil for trade discussions among the BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India and China).

    In July 2009, Black Flag predicted:
    * a Bank Holiday in August
    * Gold from $1000/oz to $5000/oz and up
    * Buy one ounce of gold now and you’ll be able to pay off your house in 6 months (buy Gold!!)

    In August 2009, Black Flag predicted:
    * Social Security – There is only one choice – and trust me, this is exactly what will happen – is abandonment.
    * Unemployment will climb from the low to the high teens
    * Major social dislocations are on the horizon for 2010
    * Israel will resolve its existential crisis by bombing Iran’s key nuclear facilities later this year
    * the Strait of Hormuz closed
    * Oil at $300 per barrel

    In November 2009, someone asked Black Flag “What is your best guess for amount of time that we have to prepare?”
    * Minus 6 months
    * Which meant May 2010

    In February 2010, PeterB in Indianapolis said:

    No, lots of us here have been predicting that one for quite a while.
    Let me tell you what happens from here:
    Ben Bernanke keeps rates artificially low, in spite of the unwillingness of other countries to buy our debt.
    Economy stagflates.
    Ben Bernanke reluctantly raises interest rates to attempt to attract somebody… ANYBODY other than the FED into buying our debt.
    It doesn’t work.
    Economy inflates, but still no one is buying our debt (other than the Fed).
    Gold hits $2500
    Obama is not even nominated to run for a second term (Hilary or Evan Bayh or someone else supplants him).
    Democrats lose anyway.

    Some “Republicans” have some very good ideas on how to help the situation, but they are all deemed “conservative libertarian nutjobs” by both the Democrats and the “establishment” Republicans. The Fed continues to be the only institution that will buy US debt.
    20% inflation and 20% unemployment (or worse) cause major social and political upheaval. The dollar does NOT become completely worthless, because too many other countries are having the exact same problems, and ALL fiat currencies are rapidly losing value as well. Dow 1500, Gold $5000.00.
    Not sure what happens after that… it will be up to people like us here I HOPE….
    I also sincerely hope that list of predictions is a worst-case scenario, but my gut feeling is that it actually could take longer than what I have outlined here, in which case the scenario could well be EVEN WORSE.

    Aaah, a fun little jaunt down memory lane…

    My point is – none of this has come true. The only correct prediction at SUFA was Chris Devine’s.

    Today we have comparisons to Jim Jones, the Wiemar Republic, Obama’s fiefdom, Benghazi (the days not complete unless Benghazi comes up!), comparisons to 1937, going back to 1913…

    I do love to stir the pot once in a while…

    So my point is – how much of this are you going to continue to believe? The apocalyptic predictions? The Obama scandal-of-the-day from Fox News and Prison Planet?

    At what point do you start to question it?

    • Here is where I have to agree with Todd to an extent. There have been an awful lot of predictions, not only from SUFA people but other people in the know, that simply have not happened. And so we prepared and several years later we still live by the status quo. My general feelings of things is that while we haven’t starved to death yet, nothing has changed to make anything get better. If anything the Progressives are dug in deep, as proven by JAC’s article on the big money force behind them, and they intend to keep marching. Todd, you’re in denial if you don’t see the Scandal of the Day. Oh..and puhlease stop with the “Bush did it too” game! We didn’t like it then either…it’s not ok, OK? They are all in cohoots to set a new order…and we..the regular folks..are collateral damage to whatever each of the sides are. And their new order is far from what the original intent of this country was….and that’s scary. And frustrating. And disappointing. Instead of keeping things simple..they complicate purposely. WHY? Who died and made them boss? I’m rambling…the point is the predictions haven’t panned out…YET…but it suuure doesn’t look any better yet either. I’m in a holding pattern…and I don’t like it…I’d like to be able to plan my future a little better…I just don’t know what to count on….it sucks!

      • Mathius™ says:

        Oh..and puhlease stop with the “Bush did it too” game! We didn’t like it then either…it’s not ok, OK?

        Now, admittedly, I didn’t know y’all back with Bush was running things. But I sure didn’t hear much complaining from the right about it. There was no Tea Party. There was no huge libertarian uproar. There was no Prison Planet or Alex Jones. Seems to me that, while maybe you’re an exception, the Red Shirts were just fine with these things when Bush was doing it but only started getting upset when the big chair was occupied by a member of the other team.

        At least, that’s the view from over here.

        • I liked Bush…seems to be an honest enough man..I still believe that..at least he would give a direct answer to questions. But I clearly remember him saying…and I don’t quite remember if it was for the TARP or some other event… but he said he had to break the market to fix it..I’m like, WHAT?…It was near the end of his second term..I didn’t know at the time if that was a good thing or a bad thing…but right then is when my Bullshit meter pegged out and I never really trusted any of them again after that.

          • Mathius™ says:

            I’ll tell you what I believe.

            I believe that Bush is a true believer. I believe that he was sincere in his beliefs, however misguided, 99% of the time. I believe that he attacked Iraq because he believed it was the right thing to do – even if he had to lie about the reasons. I believe that he believed in TARP. I believe that he believed in the massive governmental overreach and destruction of our civil liberties as a necessary evil. I believe that, public opinion be damned, Bush was not inclined to change a stance if he believed in it. I further believe that Bush was a man who saw the world in absolute black or white terms.

            I cannot say the same of Obama.

            I believe Obama is more closer to a pragmatic nihilist. I believe that he has opinions and beliefs and that they (generally) line up with his action and statements. But he will lie and/or change his stance depending on how the wind is blowing. However, I do believe that Obama, unlike Bush, gives sincere consideration to divergent opinions and would never be comfortable with a mindset of “with us or against us” – to him, like to me, almost everything is a shade of gray.

            I am more OK with Obama because I do not care about the personal motivations of our elected leaders, only their actions. That is, I don’t care why they did X – I care that X is a good thing or a bad thing for them to have done. I care that Obama’s policies, pushed for whatever reason and by whatever means, are better policies for the country. I don’t personally care if he’s a Kenyan Manchurian candidate secretly controlled by the Lizard People and the Trilateral Commission and who likes to stab hobos in dark allies to blow off steam – I care that the laws which he passes are (generally) good laws. I didn’t elect a friend – I elected someone to represent my views. Conversely, I think Bush would be a much better friend or someone I would trust personally much more, but he doesn’t represent my views, so I don’t want him making decisions for me.

            ——

            That said, Clinton is the best!

        • You did not listen very well….there was a hue and cry from us conservative types that “Bush never met a spending bill he did not like”…you just did not hear.

        • Tea party started during the Bush meltdown when Tarp was out. Has continued on since. I’m not officially a member of anything except maybe the Boy Scouts and the NRA but the tea party folks I know tend to be people who can balance a check book, think ahead and don’t particularly like the government getting involved in areas they think should be private. Perhaps you think them wrong but they certainly counterbalance groups like ACORN and most of Soros’s little groups.

          By the by, for those of you who might have thought that ACORN has gone away (weren’t we all told so?), enjoy!

          https://www.google.com/search?q=bertha+lewis+acorn+and+bill+de+blasio&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cn1VUsCABpHe4APoxIHoDw&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1704&bih=934&dpr=1

          They’re Back!!!!!

          • Mathius™ says:

            they certainly counterbalance groups like ACORN

            They most certainly don’t.

            ACORN was closed in 2010 after a partially falsified and misleadingly edited video caused a witch-hunt and destroyed its funding.

            Do you mean that ACORN?

            By the by, for those of you who might have thought that ACORN has gone away (weren’t we all told so?), enjoy!

            GASP!

            **clutches pearls**

      • Anita, SUFA,

        ” They are all in cohoots to set a new order…and we..the regular folks..are collateral damage to whatever each of the sides are. And their new order is far from what the original intent of this country was ”

        Operative word: “their”

        The more the population grows, the more technologically advanced we become, the more interdependent we become, …the more integrated we become. Eventually, we are going to globalize as a matter of economic and political convenience. The natural course of evolution dictates change is necessary for the survival and well being of our species.

        A New World Order is inevitable.

        The question is “What kind of New World Order?”

        When enough people decide toward a unified goal, it happens because everyone is doing something toward that goal. If the humanity really wanted to, it could have a NWO premised upon the “original intent of this country “, ..be it the recognition, value and respect for natural inalienable human rights as well as the responsibility that goes with it.

        There are 7 billion people on Earth. Can we go from here to there without destroying ourselves?

        Do we want to leave Earth to future generations of slaves and warmongers?

        • Mathius™ says:

          and we..the regular folks

          Speak for yourself. I’m doing my best to be a 1 percenter.

          “They are all in cohoots to set a new order…and we..the regular folks..are collateral damage to whatever each of the sides are. And their new order is far from what the original intent of this country was ”

          Just out of curiosity – what, exactly, was the original intent of this country?

          There are 7 billion people on Earth. Can we go from here to there without destroying ourselves?

          Unlikely. That’s why I have a bunker bored 1,000 feet down and stocked with 50 years of non-perishable food and a self-contained water/air recycling system and nuclear power plant. Also gold, lots of gold. And a seed bank. And guns, lots of guns, but also bows and arrows.

          You are all invited, of course. No yippy dogs, however.

          Do we want to leave Earth to future generations of slaves and warmongers?

          Its funny that you have a problem with slavery, but you are such an originalist when it comes to this country. Do you see no dichotomy here?

          • ” Do we want to leave Earth to future generations of slaves and warmongers? ”

            ” Its funny that you have a problem with slavery, but you are such an originalist when it comes to this country. Do you see no dichotomy here? ”

            I beg to differ with regard to the assertion that I am an “originalist”. I have more of a progressive mindset.

            It isn’t the original form of government I adhere to so much, but rather my idealism has a common core value of inalienable rights.

          • Matt, the problem I have with you, Todd and Charlie on the slavery thing is your tone. If an unbiased Martian came here and read your stuff, he (or she) would think that the United States of America invented Slavery. He would further think that only black people were ever slaves and that only white people ever owned slaves.

            Let us always remember that slavery is perhaps the oldest of human conditions. It exists to this day and those underage prostitutes you run into out there are merely another incarnation of this age old problem.

            The foundation of this country was the first attempt ever to endow an entire people with the concept of individual freedom and individual power over their destiny. Was it flawed? Yes it was. Is it still flawed? Are there still teen age prostitutes in the US? The United States was and is a work in progress.

            I was thinking before of how interesting it was that the progressive British and French did not stop slavery in their colonies. Well, a quick look at history really puts them in at least as bad a light as the United States ever was. Seems that slavery was quite the thing until the 19th century (latter part) Russia was even more backward and surprisingly so was the Cherokee nation.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833

            http://etymonline.com/columns/frenchslavery.htm

            • Mathius™ says:

              If an unbiased Martian came here and read your stuff, he (or she) would think that the United States of America invented Slavery.

              Invent? No.

              But we sure as hell partook.

              Let us always remember that slavery is perhaps the oldest of human conditions.

              Yup.

              But, hey, everyone was doing it, so let’s pretend it’s all ok!

              The foundation of this country was the first attempt ever to endow an entire people with the concept of individual freedom and individual power over their destiny.

              […] to endow an entire people white male land-owning Christans with[…]

              Fixed that for you. (disclaimer, your mileage on this correction may vary by state)

              The United States was and is a work in progress.

              Yes. Yes it is.

              So why is everyone here so hell-bent on going back to the bad-old-days?

              Well, a quick look at history really puts them in at least as bad a light as the United States ever was. Seems that slavery was quite the thing until the 19th century (latter part) Russia was even more backward and surprisingly so was the Cherokee nation.

              Didn’t your parents ever teach you that “they were doing it too” isn’t a valid defense?

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Mathius

            There is no dichotomy nor is there a conflict as you think of the term.

            That is because the conflict was recognized but a COMPROMISE was struck for the betterment of the Greater Society. You know that old Greater Good thing again.

            An originalist wants the Constitution to mean what it was intended to mean, nothing more. It does not mean we return to slavery. It means that it is to be changed by Amending it, not by Court Order or Court interpretation of what Society values at the moment.

            As was stated here today, the living theory of a Constitution means there is NO effective Constitution.

            • Mathius™ says:

              Some here would suggest that the “living document” theory IS the original intent.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Yes they would, your lil buddy being one of them.

                But as with all things that have been corrupted, there are now TWO definitions of “Living Document”. The one that was written into the Doc and the one created by SCOTUS in the early 20th century.

          • Just out of curiosity – what, exactly, was the original intent of this country?

            A no brainer, right? Ha! Try to answer that. I tried and nothing seemed to cover it so I found a cheat sheet…the more I read the less I know..

            I’m thinking the intent of the country was to ensure human rights above everything. A republic of sovereign states with a limited Federal govt should cover it..but really it doesn’t. So I guess I fail 😉

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Anita

              Allow me to assist:

              Freedom: Individuals are free to live their lives according to their own free will and ability. This freedom is only tempered by the ethical requirement that in order to be Free one must not impose upon the freedom of others.

              Liberty: Govt has no authority other than that specifically granted by FREE Individuals. Such grants of power must be beneficial to ALL and not in favor of specific groups or individuals.

              Justice: The power and authority of Govt laws must be administered equally and evenly to all. That authority may not be random, arbitrary or capricious.

              • Works for me..but I hear Buck huffing and puffing about all his trivial additions… 🙂

      • Anita,

        the point is the predictions haven’t panned out…YET

        But that’s always the excuse. Ok, it didn’t happen in 2010, but it will in 2011…I mean 2012…2013?…2014 FOR SURE!

        I’m sure EVENTUALLY some of this stuff might happen, but not in the time-frame or for the reasons given. But they’ll still claim they were right…

    • I’d like to throw in William Jennings Bryant’s Cross of Gold speech and Newton’s third law of gravity. Add Santana on not knowing history and being doomed to repeat it and finally explain why the printing presses should go on and on and on.

      • Mathius™ says:

        Add Santana on not knowing history

        Te he he.

      • Stephen,

        finally explain why the printing presses should go on and on and on.

        I’ve tried to explain this several times, but you don’t seem to want to listen.

        The short answer – the printing presses drive the US and world economy. As long as we maintain the “full faith and credit” of US debt, there won’t be a problem.

        It’s the actions of the House GOP – holding the government and debt limit hostage to get what they want – that are the biggest threat to the USA…not the printing presses…

    • Mathius™ says:

      Looks like some people’s crystal balls are a little fogged up.

      • The problem is to never predict things will happen on a specific date or time frame. they can always be postponed or put off. What you have to look for is trends. Then you have to look at history.

        When Carter was president we underwent massive (for us) inflation because the bill on Vietnam and the War on Poverty came due at the same time. Carter had no answer other than America was in a malaise and more of the same. Reagan came in with Voodoo economics and optimism and a plan.

        Now the alternate universe theory would ask:

        1. If Carter would have been re-elected would the economy have A. Recovered, B. Not recovered but gotten worse C. Stayed the same, locked in malaise.

        2. If the economy recovered under Carter, how long would that have taken vs. how long it did take under Reagan?

        3. Was it Regan’s plan that worked or was it a combination of the Plan plus the optimism of its proponent?

        4. Did the economy recover in spite of Reagan and Carter but because of the unique ability of Americans to work around a problem and find solutions?

        It is interesting as an exercise-to look at these things and compare them to FDR and the Great Depression. It is also interesting, I think to compare them to now. This is our sixth year in the meltdown. The government, in my opinion has really not had that much of an effect on recovery. Even the most stalwart supporter of the administration must admit that the figures being used are fudged. The concept of statistically removing people from the work force permanently to offset the poor growth in jobs is just one example. Nothing new about the fudge factor since they have been doing this on inflation for years. Some years energy counts (when prices stabilize or drop) some years it does not (when it jumps). Now we are counting part time jobs as permanent jobs gained.

        • Stephen,
          The economy recovered under Reagan because he started the DEFICIT SPENDING! The very spending you now rail against. Before Reagan, the deficit and debt wobbled up and down depending on the economy and wars. Since Reagan, deficit spending, except during Clinton’s second term, has been the norm.

          • And, he ran the Soviet Union into the ground with it! Fair exchange at the time. But, the Soviet union is gone now, there no longer is a reason, not for Bush 1, not for Clinton, Not for Bush 2 and certainly not for this fellow.

            If I remember correctly, we overspent for WW 2 also but for a good reason.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Ah Yes! 2009, what a wonderful year. Gas was below 2 bucks a gallon, the National debt was below 10 trillion, those who were unemployed at the time were still looking for work, rather than giving up. Tens of millions were beaming with hope because change was on the way. 85% of Americans had affordable health insurance that most were happy with. Chris Mathews was having full blown orgasms over Obama and the Democrats had majorities in both houses of Congress.

      Fast forward to now, gas is around 3.50 a gallon, the National debt is almost 17 trillion now, millions of people who found themselves out of work have simply given up on trying to find one (this of course isn’t part of the unemployment numbers we are told), those in the poor black communities who voted for Obama in huge numbers are still poor, lost hope and have no change in their pockets. Millions more have been added to the numbers without health insurance, many are losing the plans they liked, many are either being laid off or having their hours cut, and yet millions more will be unable to afford health insurance under ObamaCare. Chris Mathews is still having orgasms over Obama and the two houses of Congress can’t agree on much of anything lately. Things are just so hunky doory we should all just have a big party and celebrate the success of Obama 🙄 NOT!

      • gmanfortruth says:

        But Black Flag and Peter B failed to predict the future accurately. Now that’s important!

    • I do love to stir the pot once in a while…

      So my point is – how much of this are you going to continue to believe? The apocalyptic predictions? The Obama scandal-of-the-day from Fox News and Prison Planet?

      At what point do you start to question it?

      Fair enough Todd. How’s that “global warming” going for you? But I will chime in on a few things. Not saying I agree with Flag on everything or trying to defend him, just my view.

      In August 2009, Black Flag predicted:
      * Unemployment will climb from the low to the high teens
      (Can be argued he is/was correct. Numbers are cooked, more part time workers and so many have left the workforce. For sure, unemployment among young blacks is in those high numbers)

      * Oil at $300 per barrel
      ( he/we all missed the impact of fracking & the US increasing it’s production. Had it not been for that, I think we would be facing higher oil cost. I think $300 was/is too high, but strange things happen)
      (from Peter B)
      Ben Bernanke keeps rates artificially low, in spite of the unwillingness of other countries to buy our debt.(we have seen some reluctance. China is warning the US right now)
      Economy stagflates.
      ( Can be argued, growth is flat/low at 2% GDP growth per year? Pretty poor. At the same time, WallStreet is booming. No wonder they love Obama)

      Ben Bernanke reluctantly raises interest rates to attempt to attract somebody… ANYBODY other than the FED into buying our debt.
      (Hasn’t happened. He has kept the rates low. Wonder why he’s bailing now? Maybe he’s kept things up in the air as long as he could & see’s the fall coming?)

      Economy inflates, but still no one is buying our debt (other than the Fed).
      (Inflation is happening. Compare food cost today to 2008)

      Gold hits $2500
      (I still expect gold to go up. It’s just a matter of time. The US has printed a record amount of new currency and put it into circulation. This devaluing will catch up to us in the form of inflation or revaluing of the cost of goods. Gold & oil are the commodities where it will be most apparent)

      • LOI,
        That “global warming” isn’t going very good for me. The temperatures keep going up, my winters keep getting shorter, and there are still people who are “foolish” enough to believe “global warming” is not occurring. That level of stupidity is quite amazing…

        Not saying I agree with Flag on everything or trying to defend him, just my view.

        Yeah, but you’ll make up all kinds of excuses and try to rewrite history to fit Black Flag’s and Peter’s predictions.

        I’m not surprised…

        For sure, unemployment among young blacks is in those high numbers

        But that’s not what he predicted.

        he/we all missed the impact of fracking & the US increasing it’s production. Had it not been for that, I think we would be facing higher oil cost. I think $300 was/is too high, but strange things happen

        That’s the thing about predictions – you have to account for everything. He didn’t. His prediction did not occur. Any questions?

        we have seen some reluctance. China is warning the US right now

        China was giving warnings back then too – but they’re still buying our debt.

        Can be argued, growth is flat/low at 2% GDP growth per year?

        You can argue anything you want – that doesn’t make it economic stagflation.

        Wonder why he’s bailing now? Maybe he’s kept things up in the air as long as he could & see’s the fall coming?

        He’s “bailing” now because his second term is ending. Are you going to wonder why Obama is “bailing” in 2017?

        Inflation is happening. Compare food cost today to 2008

        But not at the rates predicted, and – even at historically low rates – EVERYONE is buying our debt.

        I still expect gold to go up. It’s just a matter of time.

        Of course Gold will eventually hit $2500. And 50 years from now when it does, Black Flag will be “screaming” (thru his AI interface Mathius invented) I was right – I was right!

        I see you skipped the Dow 1500 part. Does Dow 15,000 fit that prediction? It’s only 1 digit off?

        • “LOI,
          That “global warming” isn’t going very good for me. The temperatures keep going up, my winters keep getting shorter, and there are still people who are “foolish” enough to believe “global warming” is not occurring. That level of stupidity is quite amazing…”

          http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/un-ipcc-head-pachauri-acknowledges-global-warming-standstill-has-acknowledged-a-17-year-pause-in-global-temperature-rises/

          (Even the IPCC admits temperatures have not gone up in 17 years, but you insist they are & I’m stupid? Yes, truly amazing.)

          I see you skipped the Dow 1500 part. Does Dow 15,000 fit that prediction? It’s only 1 digit off?
          (No, I didn’t skip it, just glossed over it. “growth is flat/low at 2% GDP growth per year? Pretty poor. At the same time, WallStreet is booming. No wonder they love Obama”. I’m expecting another bubble to burst like the housing market. Hope I’m wrong, but like Flag has said, cannot see this continuing without someone calling in our markers. Maybe will end with China being the world trade currency. Have to wait & see. Maybe in another 20-30 years, you will be correct about global warming. Might help your credibility if you admit being wrong today…)

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Anita

      It is very interesting, and frustrating for me. It constantly irritates me how people try to blame “ideology” for all the woes of our Society. This ignores the fact that the ideas and beliefs of our very Founders were “ideological”. While it may not have been as complete or detailed as some it most certainly was an ideology of its time.

      From Wikipedia: “An ideology is a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one’s goals, expectations and actions. An ideology is a comprehensive vision, a way of looking at things (compare worldview) as in several philosophical tendencies (see political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society (a “received consciousness” or product of socialization).

      Ideologies are systems of abstract thought applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political or economic tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.”

      So to argue that prior leaders had “principles” but NOT “ideologies” seems to me a contradictory argument. If we assume there really is no conflict then we must assume that the “principles” are so mushy or of so little value to the value system that they don’t conflict with ANY ideology.

      I strongly agree on one key point, however. It is one I have spent several days trying to get across to those on the lefty sits. The current GRIDLOCK is due to a conflict in CORE PRINCIPLES and BELIEFS. In this sense it is a clash of ideology. Compromise in such a situation is only possible while the two competitors are nibbling around the edges. But once the conflict is reduced to the remaining CORE principles, the ability to compromise VANISHES. This is why good negotiators know never to try and corner your opponent. Unless of course you think you can and intend to ……. destroy them.

      The commentary on the affect of primary elections is spot on as well. Although the affect of party “bosses” is probably greater than the author realizes. This is in fact the conflict we see in the Republican Party at the moment. The new ideologues vs. the old bosses.

      The Dem Party already experienced this upheaval. But they will suffer it again in time.

      Almost forgot one KEY point. The author’s view of the average American is dead on, as is the reference to this being an American tradition and “expectation”. But note that it is due to this lack of “ideology” among the population that we have “progressed” away from our Core Principles and system of Government.

      This is the conundrum of a Free Society with limited Govt that is not harshly constrained. The radicals will strive to get Govt and make changes. The avg citizen is not watching because Freedom and Liberty should not require constant attention and activism.

      The problem therefore lies in NOT HARSHLY CONSTRAINING the Govt.

      • I KNEW you’d be on that article JAC…always something to learn…..

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Anita

          One other thought on the article. The author mentions all the “great” leaders selected by the party boss system and them leads us to believe this system was NOT about ideology.

          The author FAILS to recognize the Ideology of the Party Bosses who were able to get Teddy R, Wilson, FDR, Kennedy and LBJ elected. While they certainly benefited from the good ol’ boy system, they were also most certainly deep into the Progressive and thus Fabian Socialist Ideology.

          Kennedy is the one, of all these, that is a conundrum to me at times. Willing to put people into Viet Nam, but reportedly preparing to withdraw before he was killed. That would have been a departure from the Progressive Imperialistic model. Perhaps after the Bay of Pigs and due to his experience in war, he was not as willing to adhere to this part of the ideology.

          On the other hand, he was most willing to stick with it on the domestic side. The Race to the Moon is classic Progressive.

          • Yes, I was hip to that as I was reading, too. Ideology should follow principle, but if your principles are not important, then your ideology…oh boy, I can hear it already…fails too! ..So the party boss’s ideology was an important factor..and the author missed it. Good stuff though.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              I totally agree…………good stuff. Make you think, if your inclined.

              Good find, by the way.

  32. Well, as far as I know, I only made one prediction…..the ME…..and it came true.

    • Well, there was that advise about not investing…if you got out of the markets in 2007-2009 and never got back in, you missed the recovery and the opportunity to make a lot of money…

  33. Now, has anyone on here received their letter yet on health insurance? Interesting paragraph in there informing you that once you make your choice, there is no changing your mind.

    • So,…. since I can not get on line due to…how is it the government put it….”normal computer glitches”….and talked to an actual live……….YES LIVE………person who has informed me that once you are in the exchange there is not option to opt out….even if you want to pay for private insurance at a later date….there is no choice once you have made your initial decision……I find this very interesting indeed.

      • Doing more research on this topic.

      • I don’t buy that Colonel. You’re locked in for the period of the policy you buy – typically one year. You’re not locked into using the exchange for life…

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Todd

          I think this is going to require more research to know for sure.

          I heard two different people on the radio today say the same thing. Once in you can’t get out.

          I frankly don’t know the answer to that. Your comment would normally make sense. But there is much about this law that makes no sense.

  34. JAC…….back in Fort Worth, now…..have found out that funerals, burial expenses, gun salutes, and honor guards are not happening at the National Cemetery here. Let me see if I have this straight…….cell phones are readily available, illegal immigrants can have government sponsored tuition, computers given to schools…….etc……but you cannot bury the war dead, have no honor guard, no head stones, and no burial expense….blockade the National Cemeteries.. you can close the monuments in Washington DC but allow a permit to an illegal immigration rally…….

    We are getting d-9 Cats and dozers today to reopen the cemetery here….and we will defy the police to stop us.

    • Heard anything about Vietnam Vet rally this weekend to re-open the Memorial on the mall?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13thecolonel

      I saw a story on this last night on Fox. It was about the 5 Americans killed in action since the shutdown.

      Supposedly the money was authorized by Congress for continuation of the funerals and covering of expenses BEFORE the shutdown. Because both sides agreed this should not be held up and foresaw the problem.

      Yet DOD, via who knows, has decided to IGNORE the granted authority and then blame Congress.

      I cannot describe the feelings I had listening to this story.

      Most interesting was the Dem talking head, Kirsten Powers, was just as upset and found it ridiculous. As she said, it is impossible to believe this cannot be resolved IMMEDIATELY without any further Congressional involvement.

      • It took her a while fro her to come out with that. She had to be prodded. The ABC radio story yesterday afternoon was funny. They started off by telling us about the failure to act for the deceased vets and then immediately went into story about the House of Representatives Gym being open. Now, was it an oversight not to call it the congressional gym or the Senate gym? Somehow I think not. They also failed to mention that the option of paying for the vets rested entirely with the discretion of the administration which DOES NOT include Congress. A typical, nice, even-handed ABC news story, fair and balanced as always. Just like I have been seeing since Vietnam when I first started paying attention.

  35. Charlie, Todd, Matt

    I love you guys you get me thinking. Here is a gem that I had always suspected but knew very little about.

    http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm

    So there will have to be some really deep research into figuring out who owes what to who after reparations are finally approved. Anybody want to bet there will not be a movie ever made about this?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      SK

      Did you see the documented evidence that the FIRST slave owner in the Colonial America was Black??

    • Well, if you found this on a website, then it must be true!

      “In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery “a moral and political evil.” Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.”

      I guess you just don’t see how absolutely fucking absurd this argument is, do you? It is beyond arrogance and stupidity, but I guess that’s become the norm here at SUFA (and I’m being serious, yes).

      “The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.”

      Yes, Stephen, I guess this little tidbit of information proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that racism not only didn’t exist as regards whites vs. blacks while they were being sold as chattel, it proves that it’s their fault!

      Wow, you guys are so good at uncovering all the misinformation we obviously been dealt over the years. Maybe we should nominate yous for the Nobel Peace Prize or something.

      I’ll bet if you look hard enough, you can find it was the Native Americans’ fault that their culture was raped. Come on, give it the old college try!

      Sometimes I think you’re all (or too many of you) either go through bouts with pure insanity … or you’re just really insane (I know Gman is) 🙂

    • Mathius™ says:

      Ok..

      First of all..

      after reparations are finally approved

      What? Huh? Fait acompli is it?

      There is no serious/major politician (red OR blue shirt) pushing this. And if there is, he’s in such a minority that it’s laughable.

      There will be no “reparations.”

      In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery “a moral and political evil.” Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

      Well it’s so good that Robert E. Lee knew what was best for the colored folks.

      They’re better off as slaves here than free in Africa.

      Morally, socially, and physically.

      The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large.

      I can’t address this without supporting information, but it certainly smells to me like something that would come out of the back end of a bull.

      Are you kidding me with this? Sure, why not? I’m sure some African-Americans owned African-American slaves. And, hell, I’ll even stipulate for the sake of amusement that a higher proportion of “free Negroes” than Caucasians owned slaves. Hell, just for sport, I’ll say that the African American slave-owners were even worse to their slaves, why not? And then, for fun, I’ll give you your unsupported statistic that a higher percentage of “free Negroes” were slave owning than Caucasians. Even giving all this, it says nothing about the fact that there were a lot more Caucasians than “free Negroes,” so a smaller percentage still translates to a larger number of slave owners. Nor does it address that almost all slave-owners had just a handful slaves, whereas there were a tiny subset of owners who had thousands – want to take a wild guess as which bucket the “free Negro” slave-owners were in? So, even if there were more African-American slave owners (which there weren’t), they still wouldn’t have had nearly as many slaves total.

      Nor does this address in any way the fact that African-Americans (“free Negro” or otherwise) had exactly zero political power to affect changes to the laws which permit/prohibit slavery or the exercise of civil rights/liberties.

      And, of course, this says nothing at all, whatsoever, about Jim Crow, The Klan, et cetera.

      Nevermind. Go live in your fantasy land. Blah blah blah. The colored man is just as guilty of slavery and discrimination as the white man and he’s looking to get paid his reparations any day now. Gee willikers!

      • Matt and Charlie ATTENTION!

        You know reparations are coming, I know reparations are coming. Since the election of the 1st African American President failed to solve any problems at all but merely exacerbated them, there is the fallback of paying reparations. I’m sure if you asked the “fringies” on the other side like Jerry Brown, the entire California Legislature (what the hell is in the water out there Anyway?) or the soon to be elected Bill DeBlasio in NYC, they will tell you that this and only this will solve the problem. Note, I never even mentioned Sharpton or Jackson.

        Again, I see, I have touched a nerve with you and Charlie. If you go back to my original post you will see that my complaint about you guys is that you write as if the United States of America invented slavery. The article I referenced, and there are others I looked at is not an excuse, merely statement of the human condition at the time. This is something that you both seem to have a hard time understanding.

        The references I posted to British and French slavery and my comments regarding Mother Russia and serfdom, also are done merely to establish history and point out a very interesting time frame, the middle 19th century. I don’t know enough European enlightenment history to be able to link 1830-1870 as the natural culmination of the enlightenment and perhaps the high point of Western thinking. Everybody in Europe and America seems to have come to the conclusion at the time that slavery was a big no-no. This was, IN THE COURSE OF ALL HUMAN HISTORY, QUITE A F—— ACCOMPLISHMENT. It should be celebrated, cherished and remembered. As my old man always told me, forget the bad, remember the good and build on it. You cannot do anything about the past other than learn from it.

        ,

        • “If you go back to my original post you will see that my complaint about you guys is that you write as if the United States of America invented slavery.”

          I think we understand what you’re trying to say fine, Stephen. The US didn’t invent slavery, but it sure and shit embraced it.

          • Mathius™ says:

            In fact.. let’s rewind the tape, shall we?

            Mathius Said:

            Invent? No.

            But we sure as hell partook.

          • Then stop talking about it as if we did invent it. The West ended it Not the East, not Asia, not Africa, not Egypt, not India, the West ended it.

            • Mathius™ says:

              The West ended it Not the East, not Asia, not Africa, not Egypt, not India, the West ended it.

              Nonsense.

              Utter nonsense.

              In 221 BCE, the Qin dynasty in China banned slavery and feudalism. They were overthrown after a while, and slavery returned, but hey, credit where credit is due, no?

              Anyway..

              Iceland banned slavery in 1117.
              Japan “virtually ends” slavery in 1200.
              Poland banned slavery in 1588.
              Japan (officially) in 1590 (except as punishment for criminals).
              Russia in 1723 (sortof, anyway. They continued serfdom/feudalism).
              Portugal 1761.
              England 1772.

              Hell, France banned it in 1315, going so far as to declare that any slave who sets foot on French soil is instantly freed. For context, the Fugitive Slave Act was passed in America in 1850 requiring the return of escaped slaves even if they are in free-states – that’s 535 years after France – FRANCE.

              Venezuela, Moldavia, Peru, Cuba, Argentina, India, Russia (for real this time), and Sweden ALL ended slavery before the US. I suppose you could call Venezuela, Peru, Cuba, and Argentina “the West,” if you want, but by no stretch of the imagination is “The West ended it Not the East, not Asia, not Africa, not Egypt, not India, the West ended it” a remotely accurate statement

  36. gmanfortruth says:

    Mathius, Slavery: Yes, all citizens that are conservative politically should own their own bright shiny Liberal. At least then there be reason to bitch about it. 🙂

    D13, Obamacare: I received a letter a few weeks back that stated that VA health benefits qualify under Obamacare for the mandate.

  37. Matt… just another thought about trust… PALIN 2016. I feel she is trustworthy!.

    rrrrrrrrrrrrrr…leaving rubber! granddaughter calls 🙂

  38. We are going to try to make the news today…..We have a D9 Cat….ready to remove police cars and roadblocks. The National Cemeteries are not letting people in to even visit graves….As soon as we get 200 vets there….we move in. We are unarmed but we will remove whatever is in our way….human or otherwise.

  39. Outta here all…If I am not on by this evening….well, just send my mail to the Tarrant County Jail…..(must be a song there somewhere).

  40. Just A Citizen says:

    New Poll blames Republicans for Shutdown…………this is the headline. Now read the ENTIRE story.

    One point given a few comments made the other day about “Tea Party”. Please note the makeup of the Republican Party in the polling results.

    I was going to just post general findings but you should read the entire summary.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/government-shutdown-republicans-poll_n_4069254.html

  41. Just A Citizen says:

    More of “What the hell does it matter now” ………………………

    Top Internal Revenue Service Obamacare official Sarah Hall Ingram discussed confidential taxpayer information with senior Obama White House officials, according to 2012 emails obtained by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and provided to The Daily Caller.

    Lois Lerner, then head of the IRS Tax Exempt Organizations division, also received an email alongside White House officials that contained confidential information.

    Ingram attempted to counsel the White House on a lawsuit from religious organizations opposing Obamacare’s contraception mandate. Email exchanges involving Ingram and White House officials — including White House health policy advisor Ellen Montz and deputy assistant to the president for health policy Jeanne Lambrew — contained confidential taxpayer information, according to Oversight.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/09/white-house-irs-exchanged-confidential-taxpayer-info/#ixzz2hG7Xm2wQ

  42. Some really ugly things happening with shutdown, but some really cool things too. Maybe, just maybe, people will start to realize that we really don’t need all this big government crap! Like maybe, regular citizens can and will step up to do the work! Love it!

    http://twitchy.com/2013/10/09/god-bless-that-man-civilian-defies-shutdown-theater-mows-lincoln-memorial-lawn-pics-video/

  43. I want to drop this here again just so Matt and Charlie Pick it up. Both commented on my previous posts and both missed the point by a mile.

    Matt and Charlie ATTENTION!

    You know reparations are coming, I know reparations are coming. Since the election of the 1st African American President failed to solve any problems at all but merely exacerbated them, there is the fallback of paying reparations. I’m sure if you asked the “fringies” on the other side like Jerry Brown, the entire California Legislature (what the hell is in the water out there anyway?) or the soon to be elected Bill DeBlasio in NYC, they will tell you that this and only this will solve the problem. Note, I never even mentioned Sharpton or Jackson.

    Again, I see, I have touched a nerve with you and Charlie. If you go back to my original post you will see that my complaint about you guys is that you write as if the United States of America invented slavery. The article I referenced, and there are others I looked at is not an excuse, merely statement of the human condition at the time. This is something that you both seem to have a hard time understanding.

    The references I posted to British and French slavery and my comments regarding Mother Russia and serfdom, also are done merely to establish history and point out a very interesting time frame, the middle 19th century. I don’t know enough European enlightenment history to be able to link 1830-1870 as the natural culmination of the enlightenment and perhaps the high point of Western thinking. Everybody in Europe and America seems to have come to the conclusion at the time that slavery was a big no-no. This was, IN THE COURSE OF ALL HUMAN HISTORY, QUITE A F—— ACCOMPLISHMENT. It should be celebrated, cherished and remembered. As my old man always told me, forget the bad, remember the good and build on it. You cannot do anything about the past other than learn from it.

    ,

  44. Nobody there……..how disappointing. We removed concrete barricades, cut police tape…..several family members arrived and went in…..still no burials

    • Just A Citizen says:

      d13

      At least you get to sleep in your own bed tonight.

      Time to do some fundraising to get these funerals done in a timely fashion.

      Wounded Warrior Project maybe as a Spokesman which already has media coverage??

      • Yeah…..what is more interesting, there are many veterans in the Police Force…..when they know we are coming……they step aside. No weapons are pulled, no batons are drawn, no tear gas is fired…………..the same thing is happening in the National Parks…..at least in the one;s that I just left. The barricades are up, and the signs are posted…..but, like you said, if there are no signs….there is nothing. The Forestry service told me directly…..if there is a sign posted…you will be in violation…but if no sign is posted….how can you be in violation. After saying that, and this was in he Bandolier National Park in New Mexico……he pointed to another access road and said…..that road is not posted….and then walked away.

        What this shows me, and I am sure that the Progressives will say otherwise, is that the police are following the law. Posting, etc……most are using what Buck once termed…..”selective enforcement” and will not arrest people when they know what they are doing is wrong.

        Los Alamos, New Mexico, is one of the most liberal sites in the United States. Full of egghead nuclear Physicists from Berkley California and the like. And THEY are not fond of what is happening at all……My Uncle, lives in Jemez Springs and is one of those eggheads but is retired…….he is a Berkley educated Astro Physicist …..and hates what this administration is doing. He and I butt heads all the time….but he has finally said and believes that what is happening is wrong. He will not support it any longer. When these guys turn,,,,,,,it says something…..what I am not sure about but I feel that something is about to break.

    • Thanks for all your efforts. It is reassuring to know that patriots like you have our backs.

  45. Just A Citizen says:
  46. Liberty Amendment #7
    Section 1: Congress’s power to regulate Commerce is not a plenary grant of power to the federal government to regulate and control economic activity but a special grant of power limited to preventing states from impeding commerce and trade between and among the several states.

    Section 2: Congress’s power to regulate Commerce does not extend to the activity within a state, whether or not it affects interstate commerce; nor does it extend to compelling an individual or entity to participate in commerce or trade.

  47. Liberty Amendment #8

    Section 1: When any government entity acts not to secure a private property right against actions that injure property owners, but to take property for public use from a property owner by actual seizure or through regulation, which taking results in a market value reduction of the property, interference with the use of the property, or a financial loss to the property owner exceeding $10,000, the government shall compensate fully said property owner for such losses.

  48. Couple things that I find just hilarious about the timing of the GOP shutdown of the government.

    The GOP has been screaming about how bad ObamaCare was going to be. And then at the very moment it starts, right when they could be harping on every little glitch and failure, they steal the spot light from themselves and dominate the headlines around the world with “GOP Shutdown Government”.

    How stupid can you be? They had the perfect opportunity to “prove” how bad ObamaCare is. Instead, they are PROVING how stupid they are.

    This is priceless comedy!

    The second thing is the long-term optics of this. 10 or 20 years from, history will look at this as the week Democrats tried to improve the lives of millions of Americans and Republicans tried to make the lives of millions of Americans worse…

    Just complete and utter incompetence.

    • “This is priceless comedy!”

      It is indeed … I have a wingnut who sits in front of me at work … genuinely decent guy with some incredible thickness between his ears … he parrots whatever Marc Levin says … ad nausea … sometimes I can laugh … other times I want to hit him with a stick … the other day he was on the “exemption” kick … how friends of Obama were getting exemptions, etc. … he wants everyone to have the same “why should they get exempted?” etc. … I said to him (half kidding) … “you do realize that you’re arguing for universal health care, right? a form of socialism” … “What?” he yelled. “That’s not socialism!” … Like talking to bricks … sometimes the way it is in here, come to think of it 🙂

      • Yes Charlie, if one goes half way, one has to eventually go all the way. If you are going to pass a law, then it is for everyone. The 65 mile per hour speed limit is supposedly for everyone. Obamacare is not or it is heavily subsidized for some because of who they are, not their ability to pay. Some are totally exempted again because of who they re or what they contribute, others are not. This is not per-Revolutionary France.

        There is the Social Security exemption but my understanding of it is that classes of people, are exempted and have always been exempted because they have a better or at least equal guaranteed pension plan that they contribute to. There is, surprise, surprise to me, a religious exemption!

        http://wiki.fool.com/Who_Is_Exempt_From_Social_Security_Tax%3F

        During the Regan administration, due to certain screaming and hollering, Congress was finally brought into the system. The same screaming and hollering should bring them all into Obamacare too (without subsidies). Feel free to share the link with your co-worker. Knowledge is Power!

    • Todd, I guess it all stems from the perspective of the pair of glasses one puts on.

      This stuff the Dems put out about “hostage” issues is no different than Obama holding hostage the same issue by saying unless it is all there I will not negotiate. You have even said in the past, in order to negotiate there has to be give and take. Ok…….Fund the government and let the individual mandate take the same year off that big business, labor, and everyone else has. I see this as negotiation.

      Absent this, the Repubs say, ok fine, here are individual bills to fund the government….one by one….Reid says, no sir…it is all or nothing and the individual bills sit on Reid’s desk and Obama threatens veto if something comes through with out the individual mandate. So who is holding who hostage?

      Now, I will agree with you that the Republicans do not know how to fight the same fight as the Democrats. They go into a gunfight with a brick in their hand. The media will gun down the Repubs immediately…..why? Not because the people want it but because the progressives have been very good at infiltrating specific areas that control what is printed and said. That is why all the hate and mantra about Fox and conservative talk shows. This is why you and others, including me at one time, link to articles ONLY from the perspective that fits yours or my argument. No one on here, or any blog for that matter, looks at things from both perspectives.

      You and Charlie laugh about the inequalities but they are there none the less.

      I ask both you and Charlie ( I asked this of Mathius but if he answered I did not see it ).

      Justify why there should be an individual mandate and all of Congress, and the POTUS, is exempt including the staff and their families?

      Justify why there should be an individual mandate when all of big business is exempt?

      Justify why there is an individual mandate when labor unions are exempt?

      Justify why, in Nancy Pelosi’s district, why there are individual waivers for her donors? Why does not the media report this? Because it is complicit with the fallacy.

      Why is the individual mandate more important than Business, Labor, Executive privilege, and Federal Workers? Why is the largest employer in all of the United States….exempt? WHY?

      One other thing that I think you should be aware of,,,,,and I am sure that I will hear the word ANARCHIST…LAW BREAKER………beware of the ground support…..the very quiet ground support that is swelling. IT is much larger than you think. Case in point, we showed up at these monuments with arms in the cars….we did not carry them on our person….but I will tell you this….the first time a weapon is pulled on an unarmed individual exercising his right to access of public property….. it will be chaotic and the police know this. Most of the police I have encountered, agree with us….and stand aside or leave when we get there.

      Do you not see why this is beginning to happen….you laugh and you scoff but when inequities, the very things you and Charlie complain about, happen as a result of Progressive thinking….you turn the other cheek, or worse, bury your head in the sand,

      I ask this one question……………..on Obamacare………..and the Progressive movement of shutting down the government themselves……………….

      One Question………………why is it FAIR AND EQUITABLE…..to give the exemptions to the above and not to the country as a whole?

      • Mathius™ says:

        Justify why there should be an individual mandate and all of Congress, and the POTUS, is exempt including the staff and their families?

        Must’ve missed it before, apologies.

        Congress and the POTUS are NOT exempt.

        Nope, sorry.

        Sen. Chuck Grassley (Red Shirt-IA), in an attempt to derail the bill before it passed added an amendment requiring Congress / the POTUS to participate. They had hoped that it would make it unappealing and maybe peal off some Blue Shirt support, thus sinking the bill. However, the amendment passed, as did the law.

        So, Congress shifted over to the exchange, just like everyone else.

        But what ho? What about that “exemption”?

        Well.. no.

        You see, before the switch, Congress was receiving subsidized health care as part of the Federal Employee Benefit Health Plan. Switching them to the exchange meant that (A) the government was no longer paying for their health care and (B) since they were paying for it themselves, they were taking a de facto pay cut.

        So, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) corrected the problem by creating a rule that allowed the government to continue to cover 75 percent of the new ACA / Obamacare marketplace insurance premiums. As an employer, naturally it’s the prerogative of the government to do this, just as it would be the prerogative of Trader Joe’s or Walmart to offer the same benefit. [disclaimer, cribbed paragraph – I was too lazy to write it out myself]

        The upshot was that, whereas the government was paying before, they are still paying. Whereas the Congress was receiving an employer-subsidized health care before, they still are. The only difference is that, instead of the FEBHP, they’re now on the exchange and receiving their insurance from private plans instead.

    • I agree Todd but with caveat. Democrats will cheer and non-democrats or whatever the hell is left of constitutionalists, hiding in the catacombs will not. It is almost fifty years since the Great Society, and that is the way that one breaks out. There are the true believers and those who saw, little, or no result.

    • Todd, you keep calling it the GOP shutdown. That’s BS! Both parties are to blame along with the President. The HoR don’t want Obamacare, the Senate does. So here we are.

      • As do the people….

        As Mathius (I believe) keeps saying…there was an election. You lost. You don’t get to now throw a temper tantrum and shut down the government demanding the delay of a duly enacted law (upheld by SCOTUS to boot). That’s not negotiation, that’s hostage taking.

        • Hey Buck…how’s the kiddo?

          DO you mean the same delays that Obama is doing to a fully enacted law upheld by the SCOTUS? Are you seriously trying to argue, that it is ok for a President to decide which part of a law is to be upheld and when?

          • Getting too big too fast. But she definitely keeps me on my toes!

            Hope all well in crazy-Texas land!

            Come now Colonel, I’m sure you realize there is a difference between what Obama is doing and what the House is doing (or trying to do).

        • Buck, there was an election, and they lost the House. The same house that was run by a party and represented by a woman who said you had to pass the bill to see what’s in it. The bill was passed through chicanery. We’ve seen what’s in it and we don’t like it. We also don’t like the president messing with a law and changing things that he has no constitutional right to do. . Obama’s 30% of the eligible vote is not a mandate on anything. the people are speking and the Constitution, like it or not, gives the power of the purse to the House.

          If you guys want an end to the Republic and an emperor , go to it!You did not much care for it when you saw Nixon nd Bush do it.

          • Yes, there was an election. If I recall, and please correct me if I’m mistaken here, the Dems maintained control of both the Senate and the Presidency. I even believe that, although not a majority in the house (::cough, cough, gerrymandering, cough cough::) the Dems did gain seats in the last election.

            Let’s just imagine for a moment that the situation was reversed. The GOP was in control, and the Dems decided to bring the gov’t to a screeching halt if the GOP didn’t pass some gun control bill, or repeal some cockamamie abortion restriction. Where would you stand? I’m sure you would be decrying the Dems tactic….

            But, with the GOP and Obamacare, this is the GOP doing the will of the people right?

            • Mathius™ says:

              Don’t you know, Buck? The Will of The People only counts for The People who are Real Americans (read: conservative).

              • You are almost correct but you left out the nasty one percent….how callous.

              • Mathius™ says:

                I am so sorry to our 1% overlords.

                Dear 1%, forgive me my trespasses as I forgive those who trespass against me. Lead me not, dear 1%, into temptation, but deliver me from evil.

  49. Mathius and Charlie, Slavery ended long ago, at this point I don’t give a crap about it.

    • Mathius™ says:

      That’s good.

      I’m sure lots of black people feel the same way.

      They’ll be relieved to know that you’re over the whole thing and have moved on.

      And, for what it’s worth, I don’t think most black people African-Americans are really that concerned about slavery so much as subtle and overt racism which is still quite prevalent in America today.* Not being African-American, however, I can’t speak with much authority on that particular mater.

      *Do you really need a citation for this, or are you going to contend that America isn’t racist anymore?

  50. Let me make the following suggestion. Since Obama and Reid will not negotiate, I suggest the GOP withdraw any furlough pay for federal works should the democrats not come to the table and negotiate a debt ceiling and budget agreement by Oct. 16. Federal workers can use whatever sick leave and vacation they have but they will not be paid beyond that. Obama has used the national memorials, parks, etc. as painful leverage against the people. Since most federal workers are unionized and most unions back the democrats, this applies pain to Obama’s supporters.

    • Mathius™ says:

      Here’s a thought, T-Ray: The debt ceiling is not a political football. This is the money the US government, through it’s legislation, has obligated itself to spend. The question should never be “do we feel like paying for this thing we’ve bought.” Once you’ve bought it, you pay. Period. That’s the way to do things. If the Red Shirts want to obliterate 90% of the government, that’s their prerogative, but they shouldn’t do it by threatening to clinch the purse strings of things they’ve already agreed to pay.

      Image that you find yourself in budgetary hot water in the Ray household. You turn to Mrs. Ray and say “I’m going to refuse to pay our mortgage or car payments or utility bills until you get your spending under control.” Well, no, that’s not how it works. You pay the goddamn mortgage. THEN you try to figure out what you need to do to balance the budget – and if that means moving into a smaller house, that’s fine, and if that means she has to spend less on her Hummel figurine collection, that’s fine too. But you can’t “negotiate” with your wife by threatening to crash the whole system until you get what you want.

      Congress should pass a clean debt limit increase and then, if necessary, fight it out for the budget. The only reason they’re doing it this way is because they know they don’t have the muscle to do it the right way, so they’re resorting to dangerous tactics. But if they don’t have the muscle in congress / the White House to get their way, well isn’t that the whole point of a representative democracy? That the MAJORITY gets their way? Why should this MINORITY get to demand that the MAJORITY do things their way?

      • ‘obligated itself to spend’ LOL

        If we take in more than is needed to service the debt,why is there a need to increase the debt limit? What are you needing (obligating) to spend on now?

        • Mathius™ says:

          Because you respond to being over-obligated by cutting obligations or increasing revenue. Not by pretending those obligations don’t exist and refusing to pay them.

          Congress passed laws funding, say, the FDA. They passed a law creating the agency, giving it a mandate, giving it guidelines, giving it a budget. If, then, congress wants to get rid of it, they should get rid of it. But they shouldn’t just sit on their hands and refuse to pay for it. That’s dumb.

          • You missed the part about we take in more than is needed.

            • No, he didn’t.

              • Then I’m missing something because I don’t see it in his response.. So can you answer why we need to increase the debt limit when we take in more than is need to service the debt…(the way I heard its 225 in 25 out..give or take a few billion…it’s not even close.)

              • Mathius™ says:

                Because there are other things to pay for than just debt service.

                If the feds were to shut the whole thing down except the IRS and do nothing but pay off debt, then yes, there’d be plenty of money (until the economy self-destructed anyway) .

                But that’s not the question. There’s a lot of other stuff the government does.

  51. Yep, I’m sure A-As feel totally and absolutely relieved that Gmanfortruth doesn’t give a crap about racism. He has proven more than a couple of thousand times on here that he’s the ultimate voice of reason 🙂

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