Remaking the Courts

As we all know, Federal judges are appointed by the President of the United States.  In a recent speech, Obama made a comment basically saying he is “remaking the courts”.  This seems to be where our country is heading.  Justice, as is supposed to be accomplished in these Federal courts, is becoming, if not already, totally skewed.  Judges should issue their findings without discrimination.  That includes discrimination because of political beliefs.  Yes, this has been going on, with very few people standing up a demanding they be removed for discrimination.   Justice, in our Federal Courts, is no longer justice, it’s just another arm of the corrupt political system.   An example would be the Obamacare ruling by SCOTUS.  If all of you remember, it was the mandate that was questioned.  The political figures shoving this shit law down our throats said over and over that not having insurance would result in  a “FINE”.  The SCOTUS, in their ruling, changed the law and said it was a tax.  Let’s not forget that SCOTUS is also politically discriminatory and rule on their politics.  Roberts, who is traditionally a Conservative, was the final nail in that coffin, as he decided it was a tax (which is Constitutional), even though it was taughted as a fine.   The Conspiracy Theorist in me says that the NSA had more to do with this decision than anyone could know.  Was Scalia bribed because of something the NSA had on him?  Justice based on political views is a death sentence to freedom.  Blindly being in approval of this, means you agree with being enslaved by the government.  Judicial activism is just plain wrong, and it’s not justice.



  1. This subject is one that everyone should see as a problem, well, almost everybody 🙂

  2. In another subject, please take a look at how UPS and other package delivery services are doing, economically and efficiently, then compare it to the US Postal Service. Once you realize the reality of this comparison, then you can question the sanity of anyone who wants Universal Healthcare/single payer. The insanity of wanting UHC is clearing seen, at least to those of us who aren’t insane. 🙂

    • Yeah, right, like the rest of the civilized world … maybe you need to reevaluate your so-called sanity … 🙂

      • We aren’t the rest of the world. The USA don’t need and for the most part, want to be like the rest of the world. If you like the rest of the world so much, just fuckin move there! My sanity is just fine. UHC, do you really want this govt in control of your healthcare? If so, your nuckin futs 🙂

        • Careful now, boyo … you’re getting a bit aggressive … remember your own rules … a smiley face doesn’t cover up your aggression … then again, it’s always of the keyboard variety 🙂 🙂

          • UHC, do you really want this govt in control of your healthcare?

            OK, I’ll try again.

            • Not this government, G … this government is bought and paid for … I want a new government … a hybrid of capitalism and socialism … I want the people to have a say, not just the rich white guys … this is YOUR government, not mine.

              • Charlie, you need to get checked for dementia. You should know I don’t vote in Federal elections, you should also know I would prefer NO govt than this group of criminals in DC. It would be nice if you could get your facts straight, maybe taking notes would help 🙂

  3. Roberts was the turncoat in the ObamaCare SCOTUS vote. Scalar was one of the 4 dissenters with Kennedy, Thomas and Alito.

  4. LIFE AS WE KNOW IT <— Everything you see here is bullshit to keep humanity distracted ignorant and therefore enslaved.

    Ignorance is bliss. People are sheeple.

    Knowledge is Power

    Truth is Freedom

    Order out of Chaos


  5. The recent government shut down was a game of chicken in which the leadership of the Republican party did not have the cajones to play the game. As a result they have been blamed for a $24B loss in the economy. I have heard no challenges to the this number. While $24B may be a good estimate of the reduction in economic activity during the shut down, is it a true measure of the overall hit to the economy? How much of that is economic activity that was delayed rather than lost? A contract delayed is not a contract lost. A paycheck delayed is not a paycheck lost. What is lost is the time value of the money, essentially the interest. On the other side, the government actually saved the interest since it did not have to borrow that money for a few days.

    Don’t get me wrong, there were real losers in the shutdown. They were mostly private businesses that service the government workers such as restaurants, etc.

  6. For those following the issue surrounding the Miami Dolphins, what are your opinions? I think there are problems, but maybe not what the media has been blowing up (nothing new here). The NFL has assigned a special investigator, so real answers should come out soon. This is an unusual event in the NFL, as I don’t feel racism exists in any way in the NFL. I totally doubt that racism would be tolerated in the locker rooms.

    • No, an example of govt failure. Many war vets end up mentally ill from their service, sadly. At least they have an excuse, what’s yours 🙂

      • Government failure because the wingies won’t provide for the servicemen who go to war while the wingies (Chaney 5 deferments) send them without a thought about what happens when/if they return. Go Wingies!

        My excuse is trying to penetrate the thick void between your ears … 🙂

        • Charlie, your sounding more and more like a TROLL 😦

          • GMAN! So are you!. GEEZ Louise!. So far on this thread you have told him to “fucking” move, called him fucking nuts,, told him he has dementia, called him useless, compared him to mentally ill vets, and now a troll. It looks like you are purposely trying to run him out. COME ON MAN! He even asked you to calm down himself. We get it OK? You don’t like Charlie..doesn’t mean he can’t post here. I’m beginning to wonder why I bother 👿

            • 🙄

            • Thank you, Anita.

              You know, he could always settle this like a man … but that’ll never happen. 🙂

            • Anita, you should defend people of higher quality. Your not doing yourself any favors defending the only person who blatantly posts anti-American remarks. Remember, this site is called Stand Up For America, Not Stand up for the Anti-American liberal trolls. Noone else seems to have the balls to call it like clearly appears. I’ll take a nice long breakj from posting here, I don’t want to offend some poor liberal and hurt his feelings. Apparently, stating the obvious is useless in this country now. 👿

              • Anti-American remarks … now that’s funny … goes to what BL had mentioned earlier: if you aren’t kissing America’s ass, you’re not a patriot (another wingie mantra). Not to worry, G, you don’t hurt my feelings. I was merely pointing out YOUR rules for engagement in here … you’re the one who usually starts it my friend … name calling, etc. … and then you can’t handle similar rebuffs (the way you can’t handle facts) … at least one person in here recognizes it … and that’s all a guy like me needs 🙂

          • Not at all, G … what makes you say that? Because you (and others) have NO other response except to deny whatever article is posted? Maybe that’s why lefties in here prefer not to do all the research … what’s the point? Isn’t you (and I quote) who said/wrote: “Facts are useless.” ?????? 🙂 … 🙂 … 🙂


    Liberalism at it’s finest! Why the hell don’t the Liberals ever speak out against these morons?

  8. Your police state! This is why you vote.


    I’m not even sure why I’m posting this article-reading it had the effect of turning my stomach-it did reinforce my belief in State Rights. I guess these people are trying to be nice to those who they obviously think are below them but they are so condescending one can’t really respond with much more than rolling your eyes. Most likely these are the Progressives who want to tell people how to fix all these problems when they do not even come close to knowing anything about it, except how to keep the lower middle class and the poor out of their neighborhoods. But I’m sure they just want to help without actually having to live with the consequences of their “help”.


    Curious what people think about this.

    I’m kinda with the guy in the article there’s just something not OK with this.

    It does bring to mind the fact that the Bible points out that satan makes a point of trying to copy what God does to fool the people.

    • ” Curious what people think about this. ”

      It looks harmless, even positive. If they keep thinking about it, maybe they will eventually define ‘God’.

      ” I’m kinda with the guy in the article there’s just something not OK with this. ”


      ” It does bring to mind the fact that the Bible points out that satan makes a point of trying to copy what God does to fool the people.”

      Which verse[s]?

      • I would read all of Revelation’s. But here is a specific one- Revelation 13:13-15

        • When I read that chapter, I see layers of meanings. One is a cryptic description of a natal chart some time in the middle of February.

          I don’t think it means that a sea monster is going to take over the world and RFID chip everyone.

          If you take a list of all the gods associated with the heavens and relevant description their myths/legends, …a planetarium type chart, and natal chart, and dial in the right time and date/location, etc, you can read from the bible and see what looks like a pretty clear, but cryptic, description of the sky.

          It even look like it starts by describing the relevant points/frame of reference of a natal chart.

          Rising from the sea = ascendent in water sign?
          7 heads = descendent/7th house in Aquarius?
          10 horns = Midheaven/10th house in Taurus?
          appears as a leopard with feet as a bear and mouth of a lion = house elliptical through Lynx the mouth of Leo and feet of Big Bear/Ursa Major?
          Dragon = Draco?
          gave great seat power and authority = tail through head of Draco points through Vega(king planet) at the Sun(power) in Aquarius(sun sign = authority?)?
          healed wound = Mercury, son of Apollo, both with power to heal?
          War with him = Mars, the god of war?
          followed = rotation of Earth relative to position?
          42 months = Moon cycle?

          I suspect Rev 13:13 is speaking of Jupiter, the sky/thunder god.

          ” And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men ”

          ” Jupiter is usually thought to have originated as a sky god. His identifying implement is the thunderbolt, and his primary sacred animal is the eagle”

          • Why do you think this-you are reading the Bible-do the words in the Bible as a whole support this conclusion?

            • That’s what I am trying to figure out.

              I found this the other day.. check it out…

              13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

              13:18 <— RIGHT HERE is wisdom(clue). Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man(Beast=Ox=Aleph=111); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six(666).

              It is giving you three sets of numbers which are 13:18 – 111- and 666

              Genesis 26:2626 – Then Abimelech went to him from Gerar, and Ahuzzath one of his friends, and Phichol the chief captain of his army.


              English Gematria Equals: 666 ( a6 h48 u126 z156 z156 a6 t120 h48)
              Simple Gematria Equals: 111 (a1 h8 u21 z26 z26 a1 t20 h8)
              Jewish Gematria Equals: 1318 (a1 h8 u200 z500 z500 a1 t100 h8)

              • Typo correction: Genesis 26:26

                Uhh…whose that? …AHUZZATH


              • BL, Can you just lay it out here and tell us what you think/suspect/know? BTW, I’ve read elsewhere about a February “happening”; maybe you have a brothers-in-arms somewhere in the blogoshpere.

              • ” BL, Can you just lay it out here and tell us what you think/suspect/know? ”

                Can I? Yes… clearly and concisely. But it would take a bit of a lengthy explanation. I would have to present it in question form as I am still not quite sure what to make of it myself. Many may not understand,…and anyone who does see and/or believe it may not react well. The response could be anything from complete dismissal to all hell breaking loose.

                My ultimate goal is finding truth, as this is something that has, in some respects, consumed years of my life.

                Humanity scares the hell out of me. I want off of this planet.

                ” BTW, I’ve read elsewhere about a February “happening”; maybe you have a brothers-in-arms somewhere in the blogoshpere. ”

                I am not sure what the ‘February happening’ thing is about, but if I have a brother in arms anywhere, knowing as such would sure be nice.

              • Sorry BL but I really don’t understand what your asking me.

              • V, Anita, Kathy, Judy, Cyndi (wherever you are)

                You fine ladies have been kinda like surrogate online aunts and sisters to me over the last few years. I am just some turd stumbling my way through life trying to figure it out like everyone else. I have learned a lot from you women, and I appreciate you tolerating me.

                Thank you.

                That being said… Get on Google Earth, and find Versailles Palace near Paris, France. You will notice it is a BIG OWL. Above it’s head will be a gardens area with a wide assortment of monuments, obelisks, statues, paths and symbols, shapes, etc.

                Above the gardens area you will see a big cross shaped lake called the Grand Canal.

                Running as if to cross through the center of the cross of the Grand Canal in a diagonal NW/SE direction, is a street divided. The two names are;

                ” Alee Des Filles d’ Honor”. … and … “Alee Du Plat Fond ”

                Translation: Girls of Honor Street ……and The Flat Bottom Street.

                Bottom Line’s Honored Girls?


              • Gonna do this.

                BTW – just today I asked Anita to check in with Cyndi and make sure she’s OK after the typhoon passed through. Hopefully, we’ll hear from her soon.

              • Found it! Are you going to take us there? I’ll check my calendar……

              • “Gonna do this. BTW – just today I asked Anita to check in with Cyndi and make sure she’s OK after the typhoon passed through. Hopefully, we’ll hear from her soon.”

                The street points to the South Pacific somewhere around the Cook Islands?

              • Found it! Are you going to take us there? I’ll check my calendar……

                I have a passport, cash, and gear. All I have to do is pack a bag and go.

              • Thanks BL-I’ll look this up too 🙂

    • I don’t believe in joining anything, including a “like-minded” group that happens to share my beliefs … that must make me a libertarian of sorts … except I’m a socialist. See what I’m saying. But I did enjoy this line in the piece: “The movement dovetails with new studies that show an increasing number of Americans are drifting from any religious affiliation.”

      Yep, a Godless Socialist America is inevitable … 🙂

      • I dunno, Charlie.

        It kinda looks like “spiritual but not religious.” people “without religion or ritual” enjoying “music”,”inspirational talk”,”quiet reflection”, “singing awesome songs, hearing interesting talks, thinking about improving yourself and helping other people – and doing that in a community with wonderful relationships”…trying to define and affirm their beliefs or find/define God/Not-God in “a landscape dominated by faith”, where they have the “feeling that if you’re not religious, you’re not patriotic”, or “scary, mean”.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      But his reservations are entirely different than yours.

      I do find it ironic that they want to form a “church” to experience all the things they miss by isolating themselves from the Real Churches.

      I have asked my wife several times why she feels a pull to attend church. She always mentions the feeling of community as a major factor.

      The atheists in their efforts to be “different” seem to have isolated themselves from that sense.

      So in affect, they are creating the same thing they were against. And of course they forget that if God does exist then God most certainly is INSIDE their church as well.

      The fellow who described his “idea” when leaving a Christmas pageant was also telling. He recognized the “special feelings” and the “goodness” of the holiday event, and wanted to copy it. Yet it never occurs to him that perhaps the reason it is so “special” and “wonderful” is the very thing he is fighting so hard to deny.

      As for your comment about the Devil, I would not be concerned. If the Devil does exist per the Bible, then remember he is just a secondary figure. An angel cast out, not God’s Equal but Opposite.

      In reality, the Devil is just a parable or caricature for Evil.

      • I agree JAC. Very ironic, in fact and I perceive it as a good thing.

      • ” In reality, the Devil is just a parable or caricature for Evil. ”


        Try thinking like a prophet or Jesus or an ascended master or whatever…

        How do you explain concepts like spirituality to someone who is used to associating characterized gods with planets and stars? How would you approach trying to explain the finer points of morality and spirituality to someone who was illiterate and virtually ignorant compared to what we know today or will know in the future? How would you explain things like the nature of sin, duality, and the dynamic of G[o]od and [D]evil?

        • BL, Laws of the Universe. Everything has an opposite. Up/down, left/right, good/evil, for examples. Just a thought 🙂

          • ” BL, Laws of the Universe. Everything has an opposite. Up/down, left/right, good/evil, for examples. Just a thought”


            The universe is a perfect paradox, the balance between duality in everything.

            Ordo ab Chao

  11. Happy Veteran’s Day! Thanks to all who served 🙂

    • This is how the right wing (deferment central) thanks all those who served:

      What a country!

      • It is not as if I don’t know ant vets or vets of the current war(s). I do. The problem is that while they serve, they are political fodder for the right ie. “our heroes”. After they have served they become fodder for the left “starving, homeless vets”.

        Vets are like everyone else. Some get out, some adjust, some don’t. Some succeed right away some don’t. Some need help and ask for it some “tough” it out.

        It is an interesting group of people as a whole because it is a self selected group. Nobody sent them a “greetings” letter. There was no one in the wings waiting to hand them the white feather of cowardliness if they did not serve. There are no judges anymore who say jail or the Marines. Their motivations ran the gamut from Vengeance for 9/11 to patriotism, to no job locally, to doing something Dad and Grandad did, to lust for adventure to boredom.

        They are certainly a different group than those before them. They come from pretty soft culture rejecting that softness while serving and yet, when they deplane, unlike their Dads and Grand dads,are encouraged by everybody and their brother to file for disability benefits in droves (check the numbers).

        Never having “seen the elephant” as they said during the Civil war, I can only imagine the mental trauma and anguish combat vets go through but, I have a pretty good imagination. What i can say though is their trauma was no greater than that faced by vets of previous wars. Read about Okinawa and the campaign there, (Sledge’s Book “With the Old Breed” is instructive and eye opening”) the Hurtegen forest, the Bulge, Battan and the Death March, The retrograde out of the Chosin Reservoir, Tet in Hue, or, any poor bastard at all that spent any time in a trench 1914-1918.

        We as a people have gotten better about treating and caring. The BS about food stamps is just that BS. temporary increases to the program were rolled back. Perhaps, if there was less fraud, if people ineligible were not on it, there would be more for those who need it.

        • “We as a people have gotten better about treating and caring. The BS about food stamps is just that BS.”

          As another GREAT AMERICAN has said right here at Stand up for Deniability … “The facts are useless” … it’s good to see all you wingies feel the same way! 🙂

        • SK, I don’t know a war vet that doesn’t remember his/her time in combat. Most handle it well afterwards, while others have problems. That can be said about any traumatic event. Coming home was a major transition in life, and I think that this also can cause problems. If the term “adrenaline junkie” makes any sense to you, then you can see why it would be such a difficult transition. The government has failed miserably when it comes to honoring their contract with veterans. That may come back to haunt them one day.

          • Most handle it well afterwards, while others have problems.
            I’m not sure that YOU are qualified to say that.
            That can be said about any traumatic event. Coming home was a major transition in life, and I think that this also can cause problems.
            I suspect war might be worse than most traumatic events (then again, “traumatic” can be defined very many different ways).
            If the term “adrenaline junkie” makes any sense to you, then you can see why it would be such a difficult transition.
            I don’t think all (or most) vets were/are adrenaline junkies.
            The government has failed miserably when it comes to honoring their contract with veterans.
            Really? I thought it was your side that didn’t want to pay for these parasites (what Mr. Romney classified them as last election). And … the other side of the “volunteer” argument goes: They know what they signed up for …
            It’s just us lefties who think they (like everyone else) should have whatever they reasonably need (to be defined by us, not you lunatics) to help them.
            That may come back to haunt them one day.
            You remain a man of threats, I’ll give you that much … consistency.

            • 🙄

            • I’m not sure that YOU are qualified to say that.

              You sure as hell ain’t. At least I had the courage to go down that road. You, you were just a small time thief who couldn’t commit to anything.

              You should be HAPPY today! Somebody out there seems to agree with you 🙂 You have a new comrade. You two have a blast!

          • Charlie, the Haiku from Ian Fleming’s “You Only Live Twice”

            You only live twice
            once when you are born
            and once when you look death in the face.

            Splains it all!

            Ever escape death by a whisker? Ever had the guy in front of you broadsided? Go off a motorcycle at speed? Not get on the train, plane, bus? Almost fall out a window, Off a roof? Have a ladder collapse under you? Get caught in an undertow? Have a tree branch drop a few feet away? If you have and have EVER thought on it again or dreamed it, Congratulations! You know what PTSD is.

            • I was a window cleaner, Stephen … I still have nightmares about falling … I’m sure it’s real, but I don’t qualify. War is another story. I have no doubt veterans suffer from PTSD … so why not help them? I find it absolutely ironic that the wingies rather cut the budgets of those types of programs rather than have those who can afford it chip in. Makes zero sense to me … especially since they’re the ones benefitting from all those poor SOB’s who do their fighting for them.

              • So, you have coped with it. The next level is watching someone actually get killed , watching somebody you know get killed and finally, realizing that the someone you saw being killed could have been you.

                Nobody to my knowledge says that you should not help people with PTSD. There are however some interesting claims being filed which have little or nothing to do with personal involvement. Same with Agent Orange. I was a skeptic until I started losing friends to weird cancers. Now, they were all 55 and older but the commonality was service in the field in Vietnam in ’64 and ’65 when Operation Ranch Hand was at its peak. On the other hand, who knows? Met a vet (Air Force) yesterday who was at Cam Rahn in 65 and his job was filling the tanks on the C-123’s with the herbicide. He has never had a problem. One thing though when a 65 year old files a claim for AO exposure and he was on a ship in the South China Sea, the entire time and his claim is related to heart problems or diabetes, then I wonder.

                Regarding budget cuts soldiers and vets. Let’s look at some old Kipling:

                You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
                We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
                Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
                The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
                For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
                But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
                An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
                An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

                I’m sure the Colonel would agree, Nothing changes!

      • Just A Citizen says:

        What an inflammatory and ignorant statement.

  12. Repel of “Stand Your Ground” Soundly Defeated in Florida

    🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
    An attempted repeal of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law was voted down in that state’s house judiciary committee on November 7.

    The bill offered to repeal it was HB-4003. And according to, HB-4003 would not only have repealed stand your ground but would have also diminished Floridians’ right to self-defense in other ways, other settings.

    The repeal was offered by state representative Alan B. Williams (Democrat). Because he is not a member of the judiciary committee he could not even vote in support of the repeal he requested.

    Williams and the handful of representatives who sided with him pointed to the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident as proof the law needs to be done away, even though stand your ground did not play a role in the incident between Martin and Zimmerman.


  13. Junior barbarians in the inner cities, with Joisey leading the way.

  14. Too funny not to laugh at again. I wonder how many people think he’s right?

  15. POOF! Silence is Golden. 🙄

  16. So you never have to wonder about my patriotism again … I believe most people born here are extremely fortunate, but it has little to do with American exceptionalism. It has more to do with good old luck … or, if you prefer, divine providence. There but for the grace of God and/or the atoms in the air, those of us who have full access to the benefits of this society (not all do), were fortunate, end of story. Nationalism, on the other hand, is what led to Nazi Germany … Deutschland uber alles isn’t much different than USA! USA! USA! … even at sporting events, I don’t like it and would never take part in it. That doesn’t mean I don’t like my country. Challenging the myth of America doesn’t make me an America hater. On the contrary, since you so often toss the word “sheeple” around, not challenging the myth makes you exactly what you claim others are. And not only do I not buy into the myth of America, I don’t buy into the demonization of socialist societies, no matter how many times your only refrain is “40 million killed.” There are a bunch (a bunch) of socialist countries where “40 million killed” doesn’t apply. Their citizens are as free (maybe more so) as you and I.

    America has the most potential in the world, I do believe that, but so long as it’s run by corporations and a 1% population, we’ll NEVER reach it. What we’ll do is exactly what we’re doing right now, setting ourselves up for a great fail. So it goes.

    I honor veterans who fought, but not because they were fighting for my freedom. I don’t buy into that myth either. I appreciate their efforts and their loss and I would prefer to honor them with genuine health care (mental and physical), jobs and whatever else they might need. Yes, all those socialist ideas that make most of you cringe (because it would come from your pockets). Too bad.

    I have an uncle I never met who died in the Ardennes forest. I hope to visit his grave next year. He’s buried in France. I wish I could have know him. Further, I wish Germany hadn’t fallen for the bullshit nationalism that convinced them (along with other factors) that they were the destined to rule the world.

    It isn’t unpatriotic to challenge myths. Nor is it patriotic to wave a flag. The same goes for Christians who act in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ.

    Now, if you’ll go back to acting nice, so will I, but don’t ever expect me to back down to insults. Christ, I’m a Bills fan … I can take pretty much anything at this point. 🙂

    • THat is nothing….Charlie…trying being a Cowboys fan.

    • Charlie, I always prefer to be nice, it’s easier. It becomes difficult when you make inflammatory and ignorant posts. Basically, you get back what you give, it’s just human nature. Despite what Anita say’s , I don’t dislike you, but think you a good writer with a good sense of humor. You already know where I stand in politics, I’m mostly an Anarchist.

      If you want nice from others, it all begins with what you post. We have had good conversations in the past, when you ry to be funny at someone else’s expense, there will be repercussions. .

      As far as your patriotism, I only go by what you post. When you post stuff that is basically anti-American, then you will be called out, it’s really simple. I don’t believe in all that exceptionalism crap either, it’s nothing more than media BS. I do believe Patriotism is very important for any country. It brings people together for a common cause. Now, if we could just wake up the Sheeple, things would get real interesting. That ain’t gonna happen, unfortunately. Would you like an entire thread on the subjectso we can hash it out, nicely, I hope? I think comparing patriotism to the Nazi’s is way overboard, but in a way I can understand how you would think that.

      So my main point, if you want nice, then be nice. You want asshole, then be one. Which is it going to be?

      • You wrote: “It becomes difficult when you make inflammatory and ignorant posts. Basically, you get back what you give, it’s just human nature.”

        I feel the same way, G … and I’m pretty sure it was you who were attacking me the last few days (at least started it) but we can always try again. I’d like to know why you think (or what You think) I wrote was anti-American. Seriously, that might be a good debate.

        • I will make it the next thread. I’ll also put in what I think was anti-American that you posted. Then we can debate 🙂

          • Oh, as far as who started it. The third post on this thread:

            Yeah, right, like the rest of the civilized world … maybe you need to reevaluate your so-called sanity … 🙂

            Go up and look for yourself.

            • Oh, how I want to jump in here……. Charlie should be able to handle it himself though.

              • Anita, go for it. I have a thread ready to go when this one hits about 175 posts. It should, hopefully resolve much of this. Charlie and I are currently on a truce, I think 🙂

            • Okay, I checked, but obviously you don’t think this (which came before my post) offensive: “Once you realize the reality of this comparison, then you can question the sanity of anyone who wants Universal Healthcare/single payer.”

              My response was to your attack on sanity.

              Let’s move on … I’ll do my best to stay on top of the anti-American debate. I should have time the next few days, but I’ll be gone this weekend.

              • It’s a legit comparison. You did say “not with this govt” which basically means you and I agree 🙂 But I wasn’t talking to you, but to everyone as a whole. My sanity really wasn’t the subject, the subject was single payer vs. USPS. Moving on is good idea. I’ll throw up the new thread tomorrow some time, unless you would like to begin now 🙂

  17. The SUFA leftists hate voter suppression! I know this because it is always your argument against voter ID. To be true to your principles, let’s hear it against this suppression:

    • So a bunch of people, who HATE gobernt, were disenfranchised because the gobernt they HATE wouldn’t recognize they’re little HATE groups?

      So let’s just blame Obama for all the Tea Party’s problems?
      No personal responsibility required!

      And the best part is there are people who will actually believe this stuff! 🙂

      • 🙂

      • I’m curious-on what basis do you support the IRS’s actions? And why are you so upset because people don’t like the currant President-people have been disliking Presidents as far back as I can remember.

      • So now that you hated on the Tea Party, can you at least acknowledge that what the IRS did was in fact UNDERHANDED?

      • Watch it when you throw around terms like HATE groups. I have been threatened a lot more times by people on the left, sometimes physically, than I have ever heard people on the right make threats. Working, back in the day, on the William F and James L. Buckley campaigns in NY came very close to fisticuffs a few times. Ditto with Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan. I was somehow always the fascist should die, get a horrible disease or be put in a camp. Today, if I disagree with some of my neighbors for God’s sake on Obamacare, then I deserve to die a horrible lingering death because I want the poor to die?!

        There comes a point in time when you just have had it up to here and want to call out these folks for the cretinous scum they are. That’s what finally got Bill Buckley mad enough at Gore Vidal to call him a bad name and threaten to thrash him.

        Frankly, at 66, I’m about ready to do that myself. As I have said before it is too bad that honor is gone and doesn’t count anymore in this country. In that respect, we have become Europeans. People feel free to spout filth at others with no consequences. A good punch in the mouth might just do them some good. Knock some sense into their heads as the old man would have said.

        • I don’t think people hate the tea party … in fact, I think the Democrats are in love with them. The tea party (as Noam Chomsky has stated countless times) started off with a very similar theme to the left — don’t trust the government. But let’s face it (and not deny it anymore), they were co-opted by personas that any reasonable person could call “crazies” … Michelle Bachmann (pray the gay away) … Sarah Palin’s ignorance … I don’t have the time to find all the other whacky statements made by tea party spokespeople (or those who the media picked up on), but when they influenced the mainstream republican party to the point of making them bend over (Romney’s 47% parasite comment), they became foolish. The equity gap in this country was never “earned” by those at the 1% … as it widens, most people see the tea party as defenders of the 1% … the lost message of the tea party (anti-corporation originally) has been muddled … but don’t blame the media for that, blame the spokespeople. Stephen, just once I want to see you argue something without a personal anecdote. We all have them … they don’t hold water when discussing broad issues. I’m a William Buckley (the writer) fan … but you took what Vidal said out of context … Buckley wasn’t in combat, something Vidal pointed out before calling him a crypto-Nazi (I think that’s what he called him) …

          • Charlie, I love you but let me tell you something. I have been around the block more than a few times. If I observe something, once, twice or a dozen times, it really does not say much. When it’s two dozen or a hundred, that’s different. At that point, unless I am a liar (and I am not. The old man never tolerated a liar) what I give you is gospel. If you want to consider those personal experiences as anecdotal, fine but I have always been an observer, a careful one at that and will continue to do so. Watch MSNBC if you want more examples than mine of irrational hate.

            I watched that episode on ABC with Buckley and Vidal when it happened . Vidal pushed Buckley, a very smart thing to do if you want to discredit someone. Here is a snippet. Unfortunately it does not include the lead up. But watch Vidal’s S—eating grin when Buckley loses it and falls in. Bingo! Gotcha! He won the point.

            Buckley was 19 in 1945, born 11/24/25. He joined the Army right out of High School (postponed college) He was sent to OCS and missed the war. No question he was ready to fight, no attempts at evasion. Vidal, born a month earlier enlisted after High School, became a warrant Officer and got no closer to combat than Buckley. so the issue of who was the big bad soldier is moot. Buckley made a mistake, in my opinion, by bringing up his branch of service “infantry” which carried a connotation, then as now as having been in combat.

            My reply to Todd’s comment was because I surmised he was calling Tea party folks “Hate” groups and was excusing the government using the IRS to go after them. My counter to things like that always is along the line, was it OK for the Feds to spy on the Black Panthers or SDS back in the day or on Mosques today? Just had a buddy aergue that we should be spying on our allies and their leaders (maybe a 4th Reich is brewing) . This was the same guy who, when the NSA stuff broke, said that if that proved to be true, he would be done with Obama and his administration. But, as always, there is an excuse for not breaking with the savior of all things. When I called him on that he was not happy.

            • Stephen, I’m not calling you a liar … but anecdotes aren’t facts. For every one you have, I’m sure someone arguing the other side has one too. I’ve seen the Buckley Vidal bit many times … start to finish … I think Vidal took a cheap shot, but you’re right, Buckley made the mistake of leaving himself open to it … but Vidal calling him a name wasn’t exactly “insidious” or whatever you called it. It was Vidal being a button-pusher … and it worked.

              • I don’t understand the left’s problem with anecdotal evidence. Matt has called me on that a few times too. But didn’t you just post a story about 40% of vets are homeless in NYC. And you guys are forever calling on your “disenfranchised voters” , or all those phantom “greater good” people and groups. I’d put more faith in an anecdote than a phantom group of people.

              • Anita, sorry but “40% of vets are homeless” is NOT an anecdote.

              • Gmanfortruth says:

                Greater good? Hitler killing the Jews was for the “greater good”. Terrorist attacks are for the “greater good”. To the terrorists. Obamacare is for the ” greater good”.

                I think the 40 percent was in NYC , per Charlie’s link

              • Yeah, I figured that would come back to get me. At the same time. the anecdotal person is just an example. There are plenty more who fit the anecdote. (Does that make sense?) How bout those other groups though?

              • And as Charlie correctly stated — for every anecdote you can provide, I am sure I or someone I know can provide an anecdote of the opposite. So what good does such anecdotal evidence do?

              • When does it cease being anecdotal? As i said once, twice, a dozen times maybe you can counter. A hundred? I think not. Can’t help it if you folks lead a sheltered and cloistered life.

                How many times do i have to stand in a bodega in central Brooklyn, Harlem or the South Bronx, watch food stamps or cards being used for illegal purchases before they become something other than anecdotal?

              • Buck.

                I could say the same thing about so-called experts opinions-should we totally disregard them.

  18. Kathy,

    On Google Earth …Learn to use the ruler tool to draw accurate lines across long distances, understanding the functions of bearing and range, and GPS coordinates.

    If you notice, there are monuments and paths all over the gardens of Versailles. There are usually two monuments placed in a line, often with a path, to point or demonstrate a starting line segment that corresponds with another line segment somewhere else in the world. Often the numbers and symbolism of the monument and coordinates, relativity, etc, ..will correlate with events and circumstances to tell a message of some kind.

    It looks as if it is telling a story through numbers and symbols and geography and history…like a big family tree, …kinda like a bloodline map noting French families everywhere.

    For example: The lines from the palace to US cities, are the same cities with a Fleur de Lis in their logos. A Fleur de Lis is a symbol of French royalty, started by Charlemagne of the first line of French kings. Versailles is the French palace. And if you care to look through history of immigration into the US, you will see a lot of French people moving to those particular US cities.

    I’ve found a whole network of these things all over the world. It works similar to connecting the dots. The more dots you connect, the more of a picture emerges. Only the picture isn’t visual, of logic/reason/data sets.

    There is a certain ambiguity to it though, so you really have to dig and question everything in order to identify patterns and correlations to make any kind of sense out of it.

    • Typo Correction: Only the picture isn’t visual, ..but rather more about logic/reason/data sets.

      • I found it too. It’s a beautiful area. Did I hear a roadtrip being planned? BL is treating all the ladies of SUFA? I’m there! And what was that about aunts and sisters? I’m def a sister..aunts are older..Kathy can be an aunt.:) When do we leave? And thanks for including me.

        re: CyndiP … She’s fine, basking in sunshine and 84*,asking ” Storm? What storm?”. All is well on Kwajalein Atoll.

        • Yeah, I’ll be the aunt – aunts don’t wear mini-skirts but sisters do! Told my husband that it looks like I might be going to France with SUFA ladies and a guy who speaks in code. He just shook his head….LOL!

          Glad to hear Cyndi wasn’t caught in storm. Stories and pics are horrible.

  19. WOW, , these Obamacare navigators certainly learned from the best, their President

    • For those who think that voting in the Federal elections will change things. First, both sides need to call out the liars and embarrass them in public. It is scary to think that honest people are silent on these matters. While the above link is clear evidence that Democrats will lie, often, both sides do it. If your a Democrat or a Left winger in any way and your honest, this should outrage you.

      I also want some evidence of the same kind of activity from the Republicans. I know it’s out there somewhere, please help 🙂

      • D13, in the next few days another video will be coming out showing these groups using the info from Obamacare for the “Get out the Vote” campaign, which is completely illegal. Much like ACORN’s actions. Do the Democrats really need to cheat and break the law to get their way? Why don’t the folks on the left see this for what it is WRONG. Just another reason to show how the elections in this country have become useless. 🙄

  20. 11 million people have joined the ranks since Smokey Pants took office. The total is now 91.5 million people not even looking for work. Recovery? Democrat Policies? The Federal govt as a whole?

    This is a huge problem that is being ignored by the media.

  21. Ladies,

    Know how to draw accurate lines across long distances with the ruler tool and the functions of bearings ranges and GPS.

    My thought process has been kinda clogged, or spinning like a merry go round trying to figure this stuff out. ..kinda like going down a street called Alee du Manege or Alee Du Sabotiers. 😉

    If you’ve been paying attention, you will notice that I have been leaving ‘bread crumbs’ all over SUFA over the past couple of years. Little cryptic references to things here and there.

    On November 2, 2013 at 1:11 pm, I posted the coordinates for Hofburg Palace as to honor Marie Antoinette’s birth. I am rather impressed with her as she tried to do right with the hand she was dealt.

    18 days prior to that, October 16, marked the anniversary of the day she was beheaded in the public square(Concord/Louvre) I posted an “O” on Oct. 16, at 3:18 AM as to honor her.

    3 days before that, October 13, 2013 at 1:11 pm, I posted an 18 word recipe for Quiche Lorraine. You see, my family comes from Lorraine, and in the local dialect there, the word for “CAKE” is the same as ‘Quiche’. She was of the House of Habsburg/Lorraine, BTW.

    18 days before the anniversary of her beheading, September 28, 2013 at 11:11 pm, I posted a natal chart for Concorde – Paris, France, 6:06 AM

    JAC ask me what it was and I told him it was a point in a big lOOp. Count everything in my response to him. Look at the time stamp. 3 sentences, 6 words in each, 18 words total. at 11:01 AM. Keep following along and you will see what I meant.

    111 days prior to the anniversary of her beheading, on June 26, at 3:18 PM, I posted and 11 second video of ‘Marie Antoinette'(Kirsten Dunst) saying “Let them eat cake”, …which she never really said. It was a smear campaign against her, and my references to cake are a sort of expression of cynicism. I suppose you could say she is one of my ‘girls of honor’.

    Are you familiar with Our Lady of Lourdes, and Saint Francis?

    Go on Google Earth and find the House of Lourdes in Louisville, Ky. In front of it will be a CROSS shaped landscaping area with ROSES planted there.

    Here is the location: 38.124927 N. 85.444735 W.

    Located .23 miles at a bearing/heading of 63.6 is the tip of a dome.

    Here is the Location: 38.125469 N. 85.443345 W.

    Draw a line between these two points.

    Now find Strode Station Elementary School in Winchester Ky. Out front will be a circular shaped landscaping area with light posts, that look similar to my natal chart. Directly in the center, there should be a ROSE bush planted there.

    How many times have you guys seen me post: Youth is King – Learning is Fun – Teaching is a Reward – Knowledge is Power – Truth is Freedom – Order out of Chaos?

    It is an elementary school. Get it?

    The coordinates are: 38. 00′ 6.06″ N. 84. 13′ 18.75″ W.

    3/18, 2013 at 3:05 pm, exactly 38 yrs after the day I was born(3/18/75 3:05 PM), I posted the coordinates, as well as Youth is King – Learning is Fun – Teaching is a Reward – Knowledge is Power – Truth is Freedom – Order out of Chaos (BTW, that’s 6 phrases, 3 words each, a total of 18 words.)

    Now, draw a line from the ROSE at Strode Station Elementary School to The obelisk in the center of the ROSICRUCIAN Park in San Jose, Ca.

    Here are the coordinates: 37.200237 N. 121.552250 W.

    Now, go find where those two lines intersect.
    Here is the location: 38.125266″ N. 85.353866 W.

    You have just drawn a ROSE CROSS with 3 ROSES and my exact place of birth on 3/18/75 @ 3:05 PM

    Coincidentally, My orphaned French/German grandmother was named after ROSES. She married my grandfather who was also French. Their son married a girl named after ROSES too. I wonder if it means anything.

    Now, draw a line from my birth place( 38.125266″ N. 85.353866 W. ) to the statue of Pluto(gentle god of the underworld) in the center of the La Colonnade at Versailles Palace.

    Here is the location: 48. 482222N. 2.064466 E.

    Note it is a CIRCLE, which symbolically represents my first name.

    Note how it lines up with the path, statue at 48.482400 N 2.063924 E
    and center of the CROSS of the Grand Canal…where it intersects with the Honored Ladies Street and Flat Bottom Street.

    Draw a line from Pluto in the center of the La Colonnade, to bearing: 318.75 range: 0.111 miles. It centers on one of those fingers on the Chariot De Appolyon.

    Then draw a line from the tip of that finger to the mayor’s office in the center of Paris. See how it lines up?

    Find the Concord and Louvre in Paris. Notice there are monuments and paths.

    Start here: 48. 51′ 43.34′ N. 2. 19′ 47.21″ E. ..and draw a line to my place of birth at: 38. 12′ 52.66″ N. 85. 35′ 38.66 W. See how that lines up?

    Now, go to Vienna, Austria to Marie Therese Platz (Maria Theresa Place). It is a tribute to Marie Antoinette’s mother, Holy Roman Empress Maria Theresa Walburga Amalia Christina Von Habsburg … the only female ruler of the Habsburg dominions and the last of the House of Habsburg….another ‘honored girl’

    Take note…Do you see how the 5 domes on the building marks the same pattern as the 5 monuments in the courtyard?

    Start here: 48. 12′ 16.45″ N. 16. 21′ 41.36″ E. …then draw a line Bearing 318.75 Range: 197.5 feet. to 48. 12′ 17.91″ N. 16. 21′ 39.43″ E.

    Then draw a line from 48. 12′ 16.45″ N. 16. 21′ 41.36″ E. …to my place of birth on 3/18/75 …38. 12′ 52.66″ N. 85. 35′ 38.66″ W. …See how that lines up?

    Go next door to the Museum fur Volkerkundle.

    Start here: 48. 12′ 21.16″ N. 16. 21′ 51.52″ E. and draw a line Bearing: 318.11 Range: 400 ft …to … 48. 12′ 24.09″ N. 16. 21’47.57″ E. , the Equestrian Statue.

    Now draw a line from here: 48. 12′ 19.57″ N. 16. 21′ 57.33″ E.
    …to…my place of birth. See how that lines up?

    There are many more of these, and a bit more to it than lines on a map. What do you suppose it all means?

    It makes me wonder… ya know, things like …All these things line up with my name and numbers and birth, origins. They are in other places as well.

    Is it nothing/something? What are the odds of that many things lining up so perfectly?

    How did they get there?

    Is it about someone who was born in the same hospital at the same time as I was?

    Why does some of my family look like Habsburgs?

    Do the symbols and numbers that correlate with my name and birth refer to something else?

    Why were those people visiting me and following me around? How did they know those things? It started on 3/18/01 and the things they talked about that I didn’t understand, started happening 11 yrs later. They left a series of cryptic posts on the internet with a time stamp of 3/18/01 1:01 AM. …posts that started on Nov. 2, Marie Antoinette’s birth day.

    Why do people play these weird games with me?

    Am I decoy or patsy or something? MAD sacrificial COW?

    How does it appear that the same pattern of information is in the bible?

    What’s with Versailles? It looks kinda like a big family tree. Where are they all?

    This is just the start of it. The rabbit hole runs DEEP., ..What does it all mean? What is the TRUTH?

    I was born this way?


    My name means Eternal King – Alice means Queen – WHO/WHERE/WHAT IS ALICE!


    It’s Global warming! We did it. Or maybe it was the evil Tea Partiers, LOL 🙂

  23. @G … tomorrow is best. Almost time to drive home … and listen to Marc Levin 🙂 He does make me laugh …

  24. Your laugh for the day. Leftist liars calling out other leftist liars! LOL!

  25. Fantastic look at the “greater good”. I really like this guy! Watch till the end!

  26. Charlie, it may take me till Thursday on the anti-American thread. I keep getting sidetracked :roil: But here’s an issue that we can resolve swiftly. You posted above:

    Not at all, G … what makes you say that? Because you (and others) have NO other response except to deny whatever article is posted? Maybe that’s why lefties in here prefer not to do all the research … what’s the point? Isn’t you (and I quote) who said/wrote: “Facts are useless.” ?????? 🙂 … 🙂 … 🙂

    This is another reason for some issues I have with you. In fact, like a typical liberal, I’m going to “nicely” call you a blatant liar. I know this offend you and it does break my rule of personal attacks. But in this case it is very deserving. Here’s what I posted:

    November 8, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    As a small note, facts are useless if they don’t fit into the discussion.

    By changing the meaning of the sentence, as you certainly have done, this makes you a blatant LIAR. Sorry Brother, but you can fix this and come clean, that would go a long way to lifting your credibility. Why would you misquote me as you have done? What purpose does it serve , other than hurting your credibility when your called out on it?

    Let me go a little further back while I’m trying to get this all straightened out. For the record, I’m not in any way trying to attack you as if I’m angry, not this time. But the record needs set straight. For absolutely no reason, you posted this:

    November 5, 2013 at 8:54 pm
    Thank you, Colonel … what a wuss (tree stands)
    The 10th post on a new thread, after which I was still very nice to you! 🙂

    November 12, 2013 at 3:57 pm
    and I’m pretty sure it was you who were attacking me the last few days (at least started it)
    (I’m pretty sure your dead wrong, and can prove it)

    What purpose does it serve for you to call me a Wuss? Yet you say I start the name calling. Once again Charlie, by claiming I start it, when I clearly don’t, your credibility continues to get harmed. Why would you post this about anybody, not just me? Does calling people names and/or disrespecting people serve some purpose for you?

    I sure asked a lot of questions 😉 Charlie, I really do want to get along with you. Now, I have to write an explanation to Anita, I owe her that much anyway. Peace !

    • facts are useless if they don’t fit into the discussion.
      All I can say is facts are never useless. So, no lying here.
      Thank you, Colonel … what a wuss (tree stands)
      That was meant as a joke (I thought it was obvious).
      What purpose does it serve to call me “hairline”? That came first, by the way.
      I think the name calling bothers you more than me, but I’ll refrain (and try to point out AGAIN, as I did the last time, when you’re ignoring YOUR rules for SUFA).
      Okay, I’m looking forward to the anti-america stuff.
      Peace it is. 🙂

    • And just to clear things up … I was never a petty thief. Loan shark and bookmaker, yes. Did I use violence? Yes, but rarely. I never killed anyone (so get that out of your heads) … I dealt with people who knew the score going in (I would think you libertarians and anarchists wouldn’t have a problem with that). No kids were sold loans. No kids were making bets. It was adults who probably never faced any form of justice (so street justice had to suffice) … mostly, it was a business … a profitable one, albeit illegal. And guess what? I believed big time in capitalism the entire time I was doing it … as most in that world believe in it. I’m no reformer, trust me, but it was just more proof that it (capitalism) doesn’t work (i.e., somebody has to suffer for someone else to profit).

    • I have to reply to this: G wrote: “Sorry Brother, but you can fix this and come clean, that would go a long way to lifting your credibility. Why would you misquote me as you have done? What purpose does it serve , other than hurting your credibility when your called out on it?”

      G, trust me, I have no delusions about SUFA accepting anything any liberal says. As to credibility, I don’t think I know a less informed “authority” than yourself. So, you can no longer worry about me worrying about whether or not YOU or anyone in HERE thinks I’m credible. I’m very comfortable in my own (massive) skin … and I never believed for a second that “facts were useless” …

  27. @Anita, You, young lady, certainly helped in getting me fired up. While I do see your point, and believe me, I don’t want to have words with people. To better understand me, I don’t take crap from nobody, man, women, white, black or whatever. That’s the curse of being a redhead. But as you can see, I’m trying to set the record straight and move past all this. We’ll get to the hater issue in a few days and Charlie can better explain his side of things. I called it like I saw it, plain and simple. I stand by all of it as well, although I could have phrased it in a more polite way. That, you got me on. Peace to you too 🙂

    • I called it like I saw it also. In explaining yourself, you still took shots at Charlie and me.. And you offered up justifications for your actions. I guess we’ll just see how this pans out. I sure don’t want SUFA to become like some of the other rags around the internet. Truce.

      • Gotta agree with Anita here-came on several days and all I read was sarcasm with very little actual conversation attached. Didn’t make me want to participate. For some reason you guys feed off of each other. I’m glad to see both of you attempting to get along. Don’t want either of you to stop talking but sometimes I wish you wouldn’t talk to each other 🙂

  28. Just A Citizen says:


    Loved the Virtual Pres. speeches. Thanks for posting., will head to be now feeling just a little bit better.

  29. Gmanfortruth says:

    I think betting should be legal on sports . I think my point was that you have no idea what being in the military meant .

    • Commitment was the issue, I believe. I committed to football with blind faith. it was mostly a positive experience, but by the time I was finished with college, committing to the military wasn’t something I was willing to do. I believe it can only happen at a young age, when we don’t question authority (or question it a lot less) …. Which makes me wonder now, after so many years out of the service, and feeling the way you do about this government, would you still signup during peacetime (not for the sake of a job/benefits) but for other reasons? I know USW weapon took offense when I suggested that many who joined during the voluntary Army was in place, did so for the sake of jobs/benefits (I still believe that, by the way, and don’t see a problem with it — better there than on the streets).

      • Please amend the above to “during peacetime and/or wartime” … are you willing to let people you don’t respect (according to you) send you off to war?

        • gmanfortruth says:

          I went in in 1984, by my choice. There were no wars at the time. I volunteered to go to the first Gulf War and was there from start to finish. Again, my choice. 🙂

          I have no faith in the current govt , and would not join today without a very. Good reason which I posted,

      • gmanfortruth says:

        If this country was in danger ( invasion, or serious threats of nuclear attack, alien invasion , LOL, ect) I would go back in a heartbeat. I didn’t need the job when it was 17 and had job offers open to me . There is a strong code amongst vets. It’s about the oath Brother, when you take the oath, it’s a life changing event, and the oath is for life. Hope that helps. 🙂

        • I hear you but I don’t understand it, I guess. Or maybe I don’t go for it. There’s an oath with the mob too … as fugazy as it gets. Oaths kind of bother me.

          that said, I do understand rallying to a country’s defense, but my question is, would you do it now based on what our government told us was going on? You don’t believe in this government, but would you have listened to them and gone to Iraq and/or Afghanistan?

  30. Gmanfortruth says:

    I probably would have gone to both places. Not because of the govt’s BS, but to protect my fellow servicemen and women. Like I said, there is a special bond among vets.


    I have been saying this for years. Corn production is hard on the land. The unintended consequence of over production of corn is soil erosion, mineral and nutrient depletion, increased fertilizer use, and increased pesticide use. In the old days corn was picked and stored on the ear in ventilated cribs. Hence it naturally dried Now it is picked early, shelled in the field, dried in a gas fired drier and then stored in steel corn bins. If it is not dried properly it will mold and become useless.

    At best, ethanol from corn is carbon neutral, so why are we doing this?

  32. Just A Citizen says:


    Re your comment to Anita that the 40% number is NOT anecdotal.

    From Wikipedia after trying to find an “actual” study of the subject.

    “Estimates of how many homeless veterans there currently are on the streets of the US vary because it is difficult to conduct a census of the homeless population.[7] Dr. Jon Nachison, one of the original co-founders of the San Diego Stand Down, believes that “it’s somewhere around 250,000.” “Close to 40% of the homeless are veterans,” according to Gary Parker, Program Director at VVSD (Veterans Village of San Diego).[8″

    Estimates………..vary………”believes”…….”according to”…… All footnoted but those footnotes do not contain “data” or any “survey”.

    Now lets explore the number 40%.

    Note in this story about the Veterans Village the number is “40% of the homeless are veterans”. Once again, 40% of the HOMELESS are Veterans.

    Now lets go back to the NY story. POOF, we see the same 40% number, BUT ……

    it is presented as “40% of ALL VETERANS are homeless.”

    So is the 40% anecdotal??? It seems to me it is very much so, or if you prefer it is more like an “urban legend”. While it may be based on some original estimate, it is a number that has not changed, is used in entirely different contexts thus changing the affect, and it is spread by others as if indisputable fact. All with no documented studies to support the number.

    This 40% is starting to look a lot like the Dems 50 million without health care number.

    Now in hopes of heading off the stupid responses, I am not discounting the REALITY that there are many homeless veterans across the country. I am not discounting the REALITY that many are homeless because they cannot hold jobs due to psychological issues. And that at least most of those are in fact combat related. Yes, I said “most” and not “all”.

    • Gmanfortruth says:

      Well put Sir!

      • Consider whatever I have written in the past to be gospel, then quote me and give me an Ibid or op cit.

        Also, just for the hell of it. Back when I was running neighborhood Preservation Programs for the City of NY, I was repeatedly interviewed by people doing studies on urban decline. neighborhood Preservation in an ultra urban setting was a new field. I showed up more than once in law reviews or learned treatise’s as “Trynosky interview”. Does that count?

        Found it! Now, I am no longer anecdotal. Was in the Fordham law Review. Take that you doubters!

        • I think I will bookmark the link and throw it in from time to time. i now expect to be considered “learned” by all and of course deferred to.

          PS, it’s a really good analysis of NPP for those interested. haven’t seen it in years. God bless this internet thing and Al Gore for inventing it.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          For those who don’t want to take the time, SK is cited at:

          42. Id. at 8; Interview with Steve Trynosky, Project Development Coordinator,
          Washington Heights Area Housing Office, in New York City, Feb.
          14, 1975 [hereinafter cited as Trynosky Interview].

    • No JAC, assuming the number is dead wrong and misapplied as you say (I haven’t looked into this at all), then that would not make the statement anecdotal, it would just make it wrong.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        In a very technical sense you are mostly right. However, it is being used just as any other anecdote. If it is being used backwards then people are simply grabbing a “story about someone else” and using that as evidence of a broader truth.

        This is the essence of anecdotal evidence, logical fallacy.

        Note, the number is used in San Diego. Then it spreads to NY then it is used as a “national” number.

        Despite it being transposed, this is how anecdotal information becomes part of the “urban legend”.

        Food stamp fraud in Oakland becomes California becomes evidence of the “Welfare Queen driving a Cadillac” every where across the country.

        Besides, isn’t the fallacy of the anecdote that it could be true for the original example but not representative of a broader truth?

  33. Curious is any of the progressives in the SUFA audience will acknowledge they believe in/and or are in fact, communists?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      One of the comments within your link is most revealing. Does not appear to be anecdotal…. 🙂

      California State University at San Jose
      Clark Library, Government Floor
      Phone (408)924-2770
      Microfilm Call Number: J11.R5
      Congressional Record, Vol. 109
      88th Congress, 1st Session
      Appendix Pages A1-A2842
      Jan. 9-May 7, 1963
      Reel 12

      The book was found in the off campus stacks, was ordered and checked. The quote below was checked against the original and is correct. The few errors in the copy from the Congressional Record are shown in [ ] .
      The quote starts on page 259.
      California State University at San Jose, Clark Library stacks call number:
      Naked Communist
      Book title page:
      Skousen, W. Cleon. Naked Communist
      Salt Lake City, Utah: Ensign Publishing Co.
      C. 1961 , 9th edition July 1961.

      Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35
      January 10, 1963

      Current Communist Goals

      Thursday, January 10, 1963

      Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

      At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:
      [From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]

      1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
      2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
      3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
      4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
      5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
      6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
      7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
      8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
      9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
      10.Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
      11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
      12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
      13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
      14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
      15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
      16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
      17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
      18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
      19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
      20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
      21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
      22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
      23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
      24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
      25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
      26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
      27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
      28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
      29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
      30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
      31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian historysince the Communists took over.
      32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
      33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
      34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
      35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
      36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
      37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
      38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
      39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
      40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
      41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents
      42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.
      43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
      44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
      45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

  34. “Hitler killing the Jews was for the “greater good”. ”

    No way, Jose … that was someone believing his race (even though he wasn’t a pure Aryan) was deserving of ruling the world, etc. … that’s a lot closer to conservatives thinking it’s their way or the highway than the greater good.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      The phrase: “The greatest good for the greatest number in the long run” was established by a Progressive named Gifford Pinchot. He got it from Bismark’s Socialiist Govt , where he studied,

      Bismark’s govt combined with the new Progressive Movement gave us Fascism.

      The problem with the Greater Good mentality is that WHO decides and WHO is included in the “greater”.

      So you see, Hitler was just the inevitable result of Greater Good applied to a narrowly defined culture. Just as was the Soviet and Red Chinese atrocities.

      • Gmanfortruth says:

        My point EXACTLY. 🙂

        • Except it’s wrong. You’re doing a lot of stretching there, JAC (as usual) … greater good works in several countries these days (most of those ahead of us in world health care stats) … they aren’t responsible for 40 million killed, that’s for sure. You do what you have to do (what all wingies have to do), which is to use revisionist history over intent. Chanting USA! USA! etc., is a lot closer to Deuschland Uber alles, pal o’mine 🙂

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            Charlie, my point is that Hitler’s greater good was those in his master race fantasy, Hitler decided who was the greater good. ( in his mind). And the actions that would most benefit them. You are putting the term in only one light ( for good) but the actions against the Jews (genocide) was FOR the greater good (as chosen by hitler). The fantasy of greater good will always end with something bad for some people.

  35. @Stehen: “How many times do i have to stand in a bodega in central Brooklyn, Harlem or the South Bronx, watch food stamps or cards being used for illegal purchases before they become something other than anecdotal?”

    I don’t know. Did you count the number of people using the Bodega without food stamps? Did you do a count of the neighborhood? Did you bother to notice those who paid in cash for whatever they bought? Did you take a poll of how many were minorities vs. whites scamming the same system?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      What difference does it make now?

      ONE is to many. That is all that is needed to show the fallacy of the program.

      Where there is smoke there is fire.

      • So let’s just let people go without food stamps and what then, JAC? it’s that level of arrogance that eventually hangs from a tree, my brother … no need to revise history on that one … just take a look-see at any history book.

        • Just A Citizen says:



          People will not starve to death without STAMPS.

          • A liberal, Godless Pope? See what I mean, folks … a gift that keeps on giving.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              The Catholic church has been in bed with the Socialist Movement for a very long time. The only disagreement they have with the modern left is over abortion and birth control.

            • God, the misinformation about the church and the pope from outsiders is amazing. Sarah does not know diddly on the subject. On that, I am with Charlie 110%. “Hate the sin, Love the sinner” has been a byword long before this Pope. While anyone is welcome in the church, don’t expect that thousand year teachings are going to change anytime soon despite the wishful thinking of leftists who don’t understand the church any better than their right leaning counterparts.

              Remember father Judge of 9-11 fame? A Franciscan and a self acknowledged non-practicing homosexual who was the Fire Department Chaplain. Church had room for him.


              Regarding the Church and Socialism, You are both right and you are both wrong. The church has made a strong stand with the worker and the poor since the 19th century to counter Socialism. Recently, since Vatican 2, younger clergy who have no knowledge of history want to throw in with the Socialists. The old timers basically knew what that would ultimately lead to.

              • ” younger clergy who have no knowledge of history”

                Stephen … this sounds like opinion to me … 🙂

              • As an expert now, I have talked to a lot of these younger priests who have the socialist, liberation theology bent. believe me, they suffer from “don’t know nothin” or, “well, that was then, this is now” disease.

                I am amazed about how people can give Communism a pass and not equate “new Communism”: with the nasty old, killer variety. I always wonder if they would do the same for the new Nazi party who would foreswear antisemitism and racial superiority but build better highways. Somehow, I think not.

          • Says you … so we know it’s absurd 🙂

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Before there were “food stamps” people did NOT STARVE TO DEATH.

              Ergo, people will not starve to death without Food Stamps.

              • Before there were food stamps … JAC, 1) how do you know they didn’t starve to death? 2) when was that, exactly? 3) it’s 2013 … big ass population (and more and more of it falling into poverty–thank you very much, capitalism–working just great) … so, what do you propose to do with these people? Soup kitchens? Better make them soup malls.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Soup kitchens, FOOD BANKS, Church charities, etc, etc, etc…

              Of course those who are not CITIZENS of this country could pack up and return to their native lands. Where I live that would GREATLY REDUCE the number on welfare.

              Charlie, you are old enough to remember the days before food stamps. Just try to remember, the 5th of November.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          By the way, you apparently missed the irony and contradictions of the statements I used.

          Each has been used by the “left” to rationalize the types of programs you are bickering about.

          One person suffering is enough to prove need. Yet one thief is not enough to prove theft.

          Where there is smoke there must be corporate/1%/lobbyists etc corruption or fraud. Yet where we see with our own eyes the evidence of abuse, it is dismissed as anecdotal. No fire here, just ignore the smoke.

          And of course, the now famous, what difference does it make now. If that standard can be applied to Benghazi it most certainly can be applied to food stamps or any other program touched by our Federal Govt.

          • That’s the Democratic perspective, JAC … I’m all for tossing abusers of fraud in jail (including most of Wall Street) … but make it jail, not some weekend resort … but do not punish all those who need it because of thieves … punish the thieves.

    • Hey shaddup! Didn’t I show you that I was an acknowledged expert up above!

    • Why do you keep bringing up minorities? Everybody scams food stamps. I would too if I qualified. My relatives in PA all took the free food that was distributed. They were all “coal miners” for the event. When the kids were little Mom used to arrive on our doorstep with five pound blocks of cheese and gallon cans of peanut butter from the USDA that were just handed to her because she showed up while staying in Coaldale for the summer.

      • So, let’s clean up the scam … it wouldn’t take much at all … especially with such a high rate of unemployment. Put people to work … they already proved in Florida that telephone calls alone uncover Medicaid fraud … so put people to work nailing scammers … but don’t slap them on the wrist … put them in state prisons … let them do real time. But don’t punish those who actually need assistance … what sense does that make?

        • Just A Citizen says:

          So lets stop the use of Govt FORCE to push your view of charity onto others.

          Perhaps that would reduce the anger and disgust as well as return some dignity to the poor people.

          Who knows, eliminating the constant threat of your socialist violence might even improve the CIVIL in our CIVILIZATION.

          The way to break the cycle of violence is to remove the STICK.

        • I’m game, nobody else seems to be though. Shit, we can’t even agree on photo ID for voting fraud yet tout a health program that’s going to require positive ID. How friggen schizoid can you get?

  36. Someone is really lighting up the skies of SE Michigan today. There is not a cloud in the sky. But I just counted 27+ chemtrails right above my daughter’s house. They have definitely made a grid pattern. Grid ex 2 drill anyone?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      When the atmosphere gets like that it makes us realize how much higher elevation jet traffic there is each day.

      We had that here for two day a couple weeks back. The Contrails lasted so long that they eventually formed what looked like a thing cloud layer, reducing the direct sunlight.

      • Contrails only stay visible for a short time, it’s water vapor. These are chemtrails. They last for several hours and are laid out in a pattern. “They” say these trails contain other elements for the purpose of controlling weather and other such covert government projects. I don’t want to believe it but I’ve lived near a large airport my entire life and I didn’t use to see these things even 10 years ago.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          Contrails will stay visible for a very long time if the atmospheric conditions are right. Cold temps and high upper level moisture content and NO WIND.

          Your own link states that contrails and chemtrails are the SAME THING. Do Contrails contain other chemicals? YES, they ABSOLUTELY do.

          Of course there is that little “cloud seeding” program that is often used to alleviate droughts. But I have never seen those flights produce lasting contrails/chemtrails.

          I have seen the phenomenon you are discussing many times. Not a perfect grid, if that is what you see but a grid none the less. Maybe that is because I have lived in not just a major airline route but where we see B 52’s regularly.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          So you can sleep easy tonight. I hope.

  37. Just A Citizen says:

    Strange day.

    Todd Christiansen dies at age 57. Awsome football player even if he did play for the raiders. RIP Todd.

    Tina Turner files to give up US Citizenship. Awsome performer, loved to play her music when riding around with my “cowboy” friends. Oh the looks I would get.

    • When did Tina Turner file? She wasn’t on the list of ppl in my inbox this morning…

      • Just A Citizen says:


        I do not know when. Only that it is now being reported that she did.

        If she was in your inbox I might have to come for a visit to help you with her account. 😉

        • Must have been for this quarter then…the IRS publishes a list at the end of each quarter; sometimes makes for interesting reading.

  38. @Jac :YOUR philosopher of choice??

    Nope, yours, my friend.

  39. Curious on what the opinions of the wise SUFA people are on this ocare debacle. Can they legally change it? Can they now mandate insurance companies to keep plans that they mandated insurance to cancel? Will a bill get through either the House or Senate and how will O handle it? I just know it is a cluster and it is a cluster by design and these crying dems are pathetic.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Congress can change it for sure. I don’t know if the Administration has the authority under the ACA law itself.

      I think it will be MOOT by the time Congress acts. Which is of course the hope. Run for re-election on the platform that “I tried to save your health insurance” but knowing that it can’t be saved before the full affect of the ACA makes it extinct.

      Now I could be absolutely wrong if Congress were to enact a real fix. That is to ELIMINATE most of the MANDATES to citizens and to Insurance Companies. But that is not what they will do. They will instead pass some thing that says the Insurance Companies can keep the policies in effect before the ACA.

      But what company is going to reinstate those policies with the entire insurance landscape now changed? Unless of course the ACA fails to meet its goals for low cost customers getting signed up.

      The second, third and fourth paragraphs are my PREDICTIONS in case anyone wants to hold me accountable later.

  40. Just A Citizen says:


    The Packers are done, won’t make the playoffs.

    The Saints lose out to the Panthers. By year end the Panthers will be a top the rankings but will have to travel to Seattle.

    The Seahawks may just limp into the NFC west title thanks to the Panthers. But then if they do and they continue with their top record, they will have to play the 49r’s a third time as I expect the 49rs to get the wild card.

    Broncos, the pundits favorite team will be lucky to make the playoffs cause they are going to get beat THREE more times. Twice by KC and once by New England.

    Alabama plays for another National Title against…………………….. Florida State. That is what the east coast media and coaches want. They will get what they want.

    Oh and OREGON, that team who was supposed to be in the BCS hunt probably won’t even get to play in the PAC 12 title game. Their only chance is a crummy USC team beating Standford. Not going to happen.

    And Anita my dear, the Lions will make the playoffs, ONLY because Rogers will not get back to full form in time to save the Packers.

    One more…..the NY GIANTS win the NFC east with a losing record, or .500 at best.

    • …and in NCAA Men’s BB #2 Sparty whooped #1 Kentucky last night! Go Green!

    • And my beloved New York State Buffalo Bills?

      • Just A Citizen says:

        LAST PLACE…………….. They are COMPLAINING about an UNFAIR Schedule.

        How Ironic is that?

    • Pack have a bigger problem than Rodgers – NO DEFENSE! Ugh! Heading to Lambeau for Vikings game next week and then that big game on Turkey day against the …..Lions! PLEASE show up defense!

      Oh and the Badgers beat #11 Florida last night in bball.

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