Wednesday Open Mic

I had hoped to start a discussion with Charlie, but time will not allow me to be around much in the next few days. So, chat about anything your hearts desire 🙂

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Comments

  1. Speeding things up while I have a little time. @Charlie, sorry, just don’t have the time this week, I’ll prove my point with you next week.

    • Obamacare is a trainwreck that hasn’t stopped blowing up yet (it will blow again next year too). The Dems are gonna get killed in the close races. They are bailing on Obama and I think it’s both hilarious and sad (sad because it’s their stupidity that got them in this predicament and screwed millions of good people)

  2. @JAC, What Charlie wanted to really quote was “Socialism is the illegitimate racket of the ruling class.” – G-Man

    Now, see how much better that is 🙂

  3. Charlie wrote “Actually, my ignorant friend, as I’ve stated here many times, the mob just loves capitalism … absolutely adores it. Why it went hand in hand with Battista in Cuba … because wherever people can be raped, capitalism works just fine. The ignorance, buddy boy, is all yours (as per usual). 🙂

    Why do conversations with you always seem to end up this way? Has anyone else but me noticed?

  4. @Charlie What purpose does it serve to call me “hairline”? That came first, by the way.

    I did not call you hairline, maybe you should get your FACTS straight 🙂

    • facts are useless if they don’t fit into the discussion.
      All I can say is facts are never useless. So, no lying here.

      No Charlie, stating the MPG of a Honda Accord (which is fact) during a Abortion debate is useless. Facts should support the discussion or they are useless,.

      That is not the issue, the issue is you LIED when you changed my words. ANITA, WTF! I did this and you jump my ass, WTH, you two got something going on here (joking, big time)

      • And guess what? I believed big time in capitalism the entire time I was doing it … as most in that world believe in it. I’m no reformer, trust me, but it was just more proof that it (capitalism) doesn’t work (i.e., somebody has to suffer for someone else to profit).

        That’s great, except our economy is not Capitalism, it’s a cross of Merchantilism and Fascism. One day you will understand that, or maybe not 🙄

      • OH, and Charlie, this also makes you a hippocrit. At least your a true far lefty 🙂

    • You mentioned “FACTS” G? Guess what I found?
      “Charlie’s new nickname, Hairline 🙂 ”

      That’s you, buddy …

      As to why conversation end up this way … if you search a little harder than you did for your calling me hairline, you’ll notice JAC was first with the insults (ignorant, etc.) …

      See, it really is YOU, G … 🙂

  5. I’m started to feel like a babysitter here. Why do I have to come here and clean up the mess? Ladies? A little help would be nice 😉

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Actually you don’t.

      We are all capable of handling it. I know you want to rebut the garbage but it is useless to try. You only drag yourself into the mud and pretty soon we can’t tell you from the others in the mud.

      This is given with the greatest affection and hope you will relax a little and focus on the daily issues and goings on in the world. Attack irrational with Rational. Let the rest go. Ignore it.

      Hope hunting is good this week.
      Give my best to your pops and those who share your time with you.
      JAC

      • JAC, I have the utmost respect for you, I always have. I’m cursed (redhead) and can’t take irrational crap for very long. I try, believe me, I try 😉 But I truly believe that the blog is far below it’s potential for great discussions. You know the reason, I can prove the statement.

        Pops is doing good, considering. We will both be hunting very hard the next few days, as the bow season ends after Saturday.
        Bless you and yours and PEACE 🙂

        • Just A Citizen says:

          G

          I know what you are saying and I commented on it when it began. Frankly, BF himself contributed to the problem until he changed his “style”. There is no need to “prove the statement”.

          But I don’t think you realize that the back and forth ADDS to the problem rather than helping stop it. That is why I suggest that you just let it go.

          Move on to more productive discussions. Those will then overwhelm the bad ones.

          Our lack of achieving “potential” is also multi faceted, in my opinion. I promised long ago to write more articles. I have not been able to do that. Diversity of articles would be helpful.

          You have had to carry this on pretty much by yourself. I greatly appreciate that. I hope I can contribute MORE very soon. My time in purgatory is about up. I will then be able to increase my time and effort.

          So I would suggest not trying so hard to carry the ball all the time. V.H. and others post other articles in the comments section all the time. Just step back and let it flow. If things get slow you don’t always have to try and restart the discussions. It seems to me they start back up when folks get the time to sit down again.

          Peace be with you also my friend. And I do still plan to come partake of some hunting with you some day.

          JAC

          • Good suggestions, and yes, I’m partially to blame. I should just ignore him more often rather than engaging. So be it, that’s what I will. I’ll just sit back and let ya’ll babysit 🙂

            I’m also hoping to get back to writing articles. I have a lot on my mind I’d like to write about (not about Charlie, LOL). I would like to get more participation from Buck, Mathius and Todd. Maybe if I chill on Charlie that will happen, let’s see.

            Let me know when you can come hunt, my door is open and you are more than welcome. Bring warm cloth’s 🙂 Woke to 4 inches of fresh snow this morning !

            • ” I should just ignore him more often rather than engaging.”

              Or you can do what JAC does when he’s confronted with FACTS … deny them all! He calls Noam Chomsky, one of the most brilliant minds on the planet, a linguist (as if that’s his only credential–ignore the 80-100 books he’s written) … or the 1,000 or so essays … the several speaking tours he’s done (because people think he’s a fool?) … just ignore facts (Like our ranking of 38 by the World Health Organization) … just ignore the fact that veterans need help once they return from the battlefield and that your party wants to cut those funds (the guys proposing the cutting having never been on a battlefield) … convenient, eh? Just ignore the facts … remember, they’re useless! 🙂

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Charlie

                I was going to let this go but now think better.

                PROVE that I have ever simply ignored FACTS on anything discussed here.

                This is why arguments with you are fruitless. You posted numbers, I provided an article which shows why those numbers are flawed, and which had its own citations. The colonel posted a similar finding.

                Your conclusion? We simply IGNORED the facts. What about you ignoring the counter facts I presented?

        • G-you know I love you but everyone is talking real polite to keep from hurting your feelings. But the truth is- Charlie isn’t hurting the potential for great discussions-You and Charlie fighting about it is-So please just back off. As JAC stated-everyone who posts here is well capable of deciding for themselves when someone is making a stupid or uncivil statement-we really don’t need or want someone to go to battle over every remark.If you remember BF consistantly called people names but we all for the most part ignored it or made our own personal complaints. But we didn’t claim BF had no right to speak and by damn 🙂 Charlie has the same right to speak-most of us disagreeing with him doesn’t mean he should be silenced or my most cherished complaint about the democrats-told to shut -up.

          • I don’t want anyone to shut up VH, not my goal at all. But as I said to JAC, I’ll let ya’ll handle the babysitting duties, I’ll just write and keep the blog running 🙂

            • You keep talking too-You write great articles and when you’re not fighting with Charlie you add a lot to the discussions. Just stop letting Charlie push your buttons or pushing his. I’m not even saying never fight just tone it way down. We all have to rant occasionally or we would explode. And thank you for keeping the blog going!!!!!

            • Judy Sabatini says:

              I’d like to put my 2 cents worth in here if I may. I may not always participate, but, I do come here & read comments when I can, & I noticed too, that I think sometimes Charlie maybe likes to egg people on about things, just to see what kind of reaction he gets out of everybody here, so, maybe in a way, that might start the arguments & name calling between folks here, I don’t know, but, that’s just my opinion. And G. hopefully, maybe tomorrow, I can tell what Matthew went through after his 2 tours in Iraq & how long it took him to realize he had a problem, but, refused to talk to anybody about it. I’ll just say this, it took 2 years before he realized he had PTSD before he finally got the help he needed. I’ll do my best to come here, depending how my mom is doing, ever since she took that fall, she’s kind of gone downhill.

              • Sorry to hear about your Mom, I know how much you love and care for her 😦 You are always welcome to post anything you want and a personal story of the plight of war vets would be great. Most people have no idea what being military means, much less what they can go through. I would really like you to post that 🙂

              • It’s all Judy’s fault! USW appointed her SUFA MOM and she bailed on us! She’d be able to keep G and Charlie in check! 😉

        • What an ass kissing session … 🙂

  6. Let me try and bring a subject forward and see if it can’t be discussed without all the BS that seems to be prevalent. It’s sort of ironic that the story I’m going to post was on the internet today. Why? Well I spent the entire day at the Pittsburgh VA hospital. Pops is having some eye issues that need fixed, so while he was doing that (which took way longer than we expected) I spent the day in Heroes Hall 🙂 It’s a large lounge for vets to watch movies, play pool or just sit down and rest while waiting for their transportation.

    I thought I would take the time and talk with some of the older vets, play some chess, help those who needed some attention (one vet has dementia and was alone). It was a very fulfilling day (and interesting). Then this story showed up, so let me share first and make some comments after.

    A former soldier who conducted two tours of duty in Iraq gave a Tedx talk last month from prison where he described how the army taught him to harness an uncontrollable rage and how it ultimately led him to become, what one judge termed, a “threat to society.”
    In an October video posted of a TEDx correctional facility talk, Army veteran Andrew “Sarge” Chambers gave a heartfelt account of his difficult transition to civilian life after the events of 9/11 convinced to march to war.

    Chambers, who is from Pickerington, Ohio, depicted one memory in which he awoke to a chaotic battle scene and gunfire, and remembered being astonished to hear someone laughing through it.

    “In the middle of all this chaos, I could hear somebody laughing and I thought to myself, ‘Who could be laughing at a time like this?’ and then I realized it was me laughing,” Chambers said. “I felt like I was finally losing control of that rage they taught me to harness.”

    Following his first tour, Chambers says the Army asked for volunteers to stay for an additional length of time, for which he says he volunteered as he was not married and did not have children.

    Chambers recalled losing seven fellow soldiers during his second tour, in which he and others would find and neutralize roadside IEDs.

    He says when he returned to the United States, the stress of combat left him on edge.

    “I was paranoid. I carried a pistol on me at all times. I assessed the threat level of every person or place I came in contact with,” he stated. “Driving through my family’s neighborhood, I drove in the middle of the street in fear that the side of the road was gonna blow up and kill me.”

    Chambers recollected seeking help from the Veterans Administration and being prescribed a sleep aid, but says the medication did little to quell his inner rage.

    Then one night, an argument erupted over a girl. “Someone pulled out a knife and I snapped.”

    “I pulled out my pistol. The prosecutor said I moved through the room in a tactical manner, clearing the room, laid everybody on the ground I took the knife from him and I began beating him.”

    The army vet was charged with attempted murder, as well as other charges. “When I went in for sentencing, my judge told me, “Mr. Chambers, your service is a double-edged sword. Your time in Iraq makes you a threat to society and I have a civil obligation to lock you up. I received ten years and here I am today.”

    The veteran’s story shines light on how many enlistees consider suicide as an alternative to coping with pent-up rage. It also shows how the establishment casts the mental health needs of returning veterans by the wayside, and deems them threats once their honed warrior instincts surface.

    Chambers says he hopes his story brings insight to the mindset of military veterans, and urges people to “Find a veteran and listen to his story. A lot of us just need someone to talk to.”

    The speech was given as part of a TEDx correctional facility series, which showcases stories about “incarceration and reintegration.”

    According to the video’s YouTube description, parts of Chambers’ speech will be included in the documentary “Operation Resurrection: The Warrior Returns.”

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/judge-to-soldier-your-time-in-iraq-makes-you-a-threat-to-society.html

    Coming back from combat is not easy for our vets. The transition can be mental torture, leading to all kinds of problems, including suicide. The soldier in the above story needs some good counseling, not 10 years in the pen. That is a story in and of itself (liberal judge hating on the military), something that should be watched out for, because vets have something in common with the Tea Party folks, the left label’s both terrorist’s, wrongly I might add.

  7. As Barack Obama continues the unprecedented dismissal of scores of military officers, a number of high-ranking soldiers are coming forward to expose his motive.

    One anonymous source told World Net Daily that Obama is seeking a “compliant officer class” of military personnel unwilling to question his orders. As it stands, he claims there are virtually no officials ranked higher than major “that would say no to anything.”

    According to Medal of Honor recipient and retired Army Maj. Gen. Patrick Brady, another motive is “emasculating the military,” noting that Obama “will fire anyone who disagrees with him” on certain political and social issues.

    Among the most vocal critics of the approximately 200 firings during the Obama presidency, retired Army Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin said the “problem is worse than we have ever seen.” Furthermore, he explained that enlisted men and women are afforded little room to criticize the direction of the military.

    Boykin explained that Army requirements are being lowered to “accommodate all genders,” which only makes the entire branch more vulnerable.

    As a result of these policies, he said that morale among soldiers is “at an unprecedented low” as the administration obviously values “political correctness over our ability to fight to win.”

    One U.S. Coast Guard reservist called training “a joke,” explaining most of his time is spent “doing online training on things like diversity and preventing sexual harassment these days.”

    Though there is plenty of blame directed at Obama, Retired Army Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely believes the real mastermind behind the purge is Valerie Jarrett.

    As Obama’s top adviser, Vallely contends that she is using her influence to inject even more political correctness into the armed forces. Still, he ultimately places the onus on the commander-in-chief.

    He contends that Obama is “intentionally weakening and gutting our military” while “anyone in the ranks who disagrees or speaks out is being purged.”

    The disdain Obama and his ilk have toward the military is well-documented. Through this ongoing purge, he is able to put his ideology to work and simultaneously threaten America’s standing on the world stage.

    Unfortunately, far too many individuals are unaware of this concerted effort to gut the military. Those directly affected by such polices, however, are beginning to sound the warning bells by calling out the treacherous actions of this administration.

    –B. Christopher Agee

    Read more at http://www.westernjournalism.com/soldiers-slam-obamas-military-purge/#Tt1KA2Zs7Obow1ve.99

    • I am worried that perhaps I’m becoming jaded. My first reaction upon hearing that this poor lady in Colorado who lost her health insurance coverage because of Obamacare, was to shake my head and chuckle. The reason I wanted to laugh was that she was apparently a big supporter of Obamacare and she was surprised to lose her insurance. Evidently she didn’t pay any attention to the warnings being trumpeted by conservatives all around the country who kept saying that the math just doesn’t work.

      “I was really shocked … all of my hopes were sort of dashed,” Wagner said. “’Oh my gosh President Obama, this is not what we hoped for, it’s not what we were told.’ “

      She was shocked further to learn that for the same coverage she would pay 35 percent more and have a higher deductible.

      “Our premium for next year is going up to over $1,000 a month for two of us and we’re two fairly healthy individuals,” Wagner said.

      “The whole plan was to get everyone enrolled so there’s a larger risk pool and our costs go down,” she said. “Wow, not at all what we’re seeing.”

      While this poor woman’s anger is certainly understandable, the whole situation is really an outgrowth of this new culture of entitlement among the average American citizen. Her last point really sums up the whole problem. “The whole plan was to get everyone enrolled so there’s a larger risk pool and our costs go down.” She is completely willing to force other Americans to buy healthcare simply so that her prices may be lower. As a supporter of Obamacare, she is willing to force other people to buy healthcare so that everyone can be covered, but when it’s her that faces the higher costs to get that done, she gets upset.

      It’s wholly Un-American to force others to pay for something they may not want. That’s European socialism, not American liberty.

      It’s nice to see some of the same people who voted for this tyrant and his system getting burned by their support.

      Read more at http://eaglerising.com/2876/obamacare-supporter-surprised-loses-coverage/#bTwtCGAZp37F6KiS.99

      LET’s REPEAT something: It’s wholly Un-American to force others to pay for something they may not want. That’s European socialism, not American liberty.
      What part don’t some people get?
      Read more at http://eaglerising.com/2876/obamacare-supporter-surprised-loses-coverage/#bTwtCGAZp37F6KiS.99

  8. I’m feeling the LOVE tonight from the Sufaettes!

    G, I’ll be near Pittsburgh Saturday (a friend of mine has his first book launch and I was honored to write the introduction) … it’s a terrific book. Anyway, I’m buying (big hugs, the whole shebang) … I’m even bringing cannoli (2 dozen miniatures) … but it’s a surprise for my friend (he doesn’t know I’m coming) … if you want to hook up (for the hugs and lunch on me), email me at charlieopera@gmail.com … I’m not looking forward to the drive (long-ass haul), but me and the wife will be visiting Gettysburg the next day for a very brief visit. I’ve been there several times, but my wife has never been to Gettysburg (not this wife) 🙂 We have to get back home for other work. You can even pick on the socialists/communists/green party and fat guys …

    • If not for me being in Ohio on business from Saturday morning till Monday, I’d love too. I wish I had more warning time and could change some scheduling, but right now there’s 15+ people involved, so I’m stuck. But wondering, where near Pitt? I’m way North of there, as in a 3 hour drive. You do have a long ride, that’s for sure. I’m guessing you’ll find yourself on the PA turnpike? I’m North of I 80, far away from Pitt.

      Been to Gettysburg, the Misus will love it (I still study that war). It’s kind of surreal to look around knowing what once occurred there.

      Maybe we can hook up on another occasion, this is a very busy time for me, till a week before Christmas, when it all slows way down till Spring. Maybe I can also share an invite. You (and the wife, if you choose) for a country weekend, you pick the time of year (Winter, Spring, Summer or Fall) at my place. I have a guest room with a double bed, plenty of food and lot’s of country. Bring the dog if you want (if you have one). Don’t think a cat would make it back with ya, so that’s not a good idea, LOL. Depending on the time of year, there’s plenty to see and do (away from the house). Plenty of time to plan and schedule. You can also email me at gfrc2@aol.com.

      • Consider this a standing invitation 🙂

      • You’re alright by me again, G … it’s in a town called Oakmont (I think). It’s a haul and we’re leaving early Saturday morning (2:00 a.m.) … not looking forward to that drive. I have night blindness and can’t stand being a passenger. I’ll drive … carefully … we’ll definitely be back to Gettysburg in the summer when we can spend some time there. I’m a civil war buff and have visited many battlefields. It’s fascinating to me. The two times in American history I wish I could have lived were then and during WWII … lots of mobsters (not that that makes them bad people) served valiantly in the military (unlike the pols who send them there) …

        I was unsure if we’d make the trip but I really want to see this book launch for my friend. He’s a great writer and had to flounder for years before somebody picked him up. The publishing business is a mess, but I hope it’s getting better. He and my publisher are reasons for hope.

        Peace, brother.

        • Oh Lord! I hope you have a good GPS or a new map. The people who wrote Obamacare are the Great Grandchildren of the guys who came up with the traffic patterns down there 🙂 Don’t listen to the wife if she says she wants to see Pittsburgh or you’ll end up lost and trying to contact me from either Mars, Moon or Venus Pa. No, I’m not joking. The roads are a clusterf&^k. You do have nice weather, which is great! You don’t want to try this in the snow! We had 4 inches this morning.

          As a note, I have a mobster in the family, well I did anyway, he was whacked many years ago, tell you about him someday.

          I have been to many battlefields of the Civil War. Being stationed in Hampton Va had that advantage. Yorktown Battlefields was one of my favorite places to go for a drive and look for deer! I walked in the fields several times, there they fought and died. Some of the cannons were still there then.

          PEACE!

        • Charlie, I grew up in Youngstown Ohio, AKA Little Chicago. It was a huge mob area during my growing years. My cousin married one, Jack Tobin, who like your younger days, was into loans and bookmaking, as well as protection services. I have posted a link to this in the past, but can’t seem to locate it now. To make a long story short, he was gunned down returning home to his place in Boardman Ohio back in the late 70’s sometime. His widow Patty , stills visits us during the summer months. Don’t know what he did wrong, but I can say this. When the mob was prevalent, crime and murder was not. Walking the streets at night was safe. Today, forget about it. The Feds cleaned out the mob, now Y-town is in the top 10 most dangerous cities. They did have some positive influence when they were around. 🙂

  9. Time to move ahead! It’s 26 degrees, about 3 inches of snow that hasn’t melted yet and I have a 30 minute walk to tree stand. Even a bad days hunting is still better than a good days work 🙂

    • Great morning in the woods 🙂 In for a hot lunch then back out around 1 pm till dark. I thought I’d share my experience this morning, because not many people ever get to witness what I see every year. The deer are in rut, and today I saw what is referred to as chasing. That’s when a buck is basically chasing a doe who is about to come into heat.

      Today, a small spike chased a doe through my area, but no shots were presented. It’s hard to get them to stop moving in an open window to release a bolt. An hour later, a nice 8 point chased a doe within 40 yards of me, btu once again, no windows to launch a bolt. It’s fun to watch them during this activity, because you can hear the bucks “grunting” constantly, and their necks are swollen. They look rather menacing, and for good reason, to ward off other bucks. It’s quite a sight to see in person and makes for a great day of hunting 🙂

  10. A question for Buck and Mathius. What is your opinion of Obamacare at this point? Remember in October when the Repubs were called anarchists and racisits for wanting to stop the train wreck? Is it safe to say they were RIGHT?

    • No, they were/are not right and it is not a train wreck. As I’ve said countless times, I’ve always had problems with Obamacare — it is a far from perfect law but it is a step in the right direction.

      • Thanks Buck, great answer 🙂 As I have said, OCare doesn’t effect me at all. IMHO, the people will never willing go with this Govt running HC in it’s entirety. Let’s face it, their corrupt, incompetent and have already proven that they can’t handle it . So that’s going to be an interesting fight between the two sides. I know what govt run healthcare is and how it operates. My friend, you don’t want it 😦 Because of my status, all of my healthcare is through the Veterans Administration. For the most part, it’s not bad (in my rural area), but once in the bigger city environments, like I was yesterday, it’s quite different.

        As a personal example, I need an issue fixed concerning a joint problem. A civilian doctor and friend of mine took xrays and showed me it needs fixed ASAP or it will simply snap out of place and make matters worse. The VA says it’s not bad enough yet. Who do you believe? I know it hurts constantly. Another issue, 3 buldging discs in my neck causing great discomfort, they said take Tylenol. That was last year. I got what I needed through other sources, which allowed me to heal faster and better.

        Those are just my minor examples, I know vets with far worse issues. The VA has, basically, a death panel, that approves/disapproves care. They are NOT medical professionals, as I have been told. Sound familiar? Food for thought for those who want Universal HC. It’s not what its all cracked up to be.

      • Buck, Obama does not get on TV and DELAY more things in this law (illegally I might add) if it weren’t a train wreck. It seems like it’s going to be a very long train wrecking too, because it will now get even worse next year. Damn, must suck to be a Liberal today, seeing their EPIC FAILURE in DC 🙂

  11. What an ass. His eyes are bazaar, wonder how drugged up he is? BTW, the left always says a “good thing” is that “kids” can stay on parent’s plan ’til they are 26 years old. I’ve never understood why this is a good thing to keep them dependent. Good grief.

    • I don’t think the intent is to keep them dependent … I think it’s to provide them with healthcare … especially when they are out of work and/or can’t get healthcare … 🙂

    • I can’t understand how you think this is a bad idea — as Charlie correctly stated it isn’t about keeping them dependent, but about giving them access to healthcare. Not to mention it isn’t mandatory AND the parent has to pay the increase in premiums for keeping their child on the plan. This isn’t a freebie, its giving young adults access to an existing plan.

    • It is keeping them dependent. My daughter lived abroad and when she came back, had a temp position with no insurance. Guess what? She shopped for an individual policy and paid for it herself! What a concept!

      • And nothing stops your daughter from doing just that. All this does is give options.

        A good friend of mine did exactly as your daughter did. Another went on his father’s plan and his father graciously paid to help him save some money. Yet another went on his father’s plan and his father charged him the premium difference each month.

        I am still having a lot of trouble figuring out what the issue is here.

        • Grown ups should be treated as and expected to behave as such. At twenty-six years of age, you are an adult. Allowing dependence always increases more dependence. PERIOD!

          • Again, the decision to utilize one’s parent’s plan until age 26 would be a decision to be made solely by the individual and his/her parents. This isn’t an issue of creating dependency, and if it does create such dependency, then that would be the fault of the parent and said individual.

            My parents have fantastic insurance. If I had the option of having access to their plan, I would gladly pay the increase in premiums. This isn’t a matter of dependency, it is increasing one’s available options.

          • I think you’ve had too much of the fear Kool-Aid, Kathy. It’s a great goal to make the kids independent, but there are several work around (Buck mentioned all of them, I believe) … just because you do something for someone else (family or not) doesn’t make them a ward of the state … that’s akin to pot smoking leading to mainlining … just nonsense, in general.

            • A lot would depend on whether the plan was subsidized. I used to receive pretty good healthcare through my job at a low price to me. The employer picked up the bulk. When my kids were at home and young they were included and neither they nor I really paid anything for it. If they moved back in at 24, should my employer have to subsidize them? If I were paying full freight and had to add the kids on and pay an additional premium I think that woudl be fine all around. Even if the employer did not contribute but I did at the lower group rate, I think that woudl be ok too. It’s like when your kids are on your car insurance.

              • I think the govt should go away and let the people handle the problems at a lower level (than the Feds). The same year the ACA was passed, the State of Ohio passed a law that insurance companies must deal with the pre-existing conditions and capped the cost increase. Obama is a PUTZ, along with his supporters in politics (Ried, Pelosi etc.)

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Kathy

      I agree.

      I think our friends misunderstand the concept of dependency here.

      My daughter is on our plan. Therefore she is still “dependent” upon us for her health insurance.

      Whether she pays the premium difference is irrelevant. She is still “depending” on us for that high quality and lower cost.

      I am sure if she moves to the EXCHANGES she is going to pay MORE and get LESS.

  12. Perhaps it is time for another Churchill quote,

    “This is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end but perhaps it is the end of the beginning”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/14/obama-allow-sale-canceled-health-insurance-plans/

  13. Judy Sabatini says:

    Okay, now I would like to take this time to thank G for his kind words about my mom, & I will write what we’ve experienced when our youngest son was home after he was out of the Marines 2 years later. a And, Anita, I’m sorry if you thought I bailed from here LOL! & away from everybody here, guess I just got kind of on the board side here, just seemed like the same topics, just worded differently, & if nobody agreed with other people here, then the name calling & nastiness started coming out, but, I do come here when I can & read what’s going on. And Charlie, I’m sorry too if I said anything at all to upset or anger you in what I said above, didn’t mean to offend you or anybody here for that matter.

    Okay, on now with what I have to say. When our son, Matthew got out of the Marines, & even thought he was in the National Guard at the time as well, we noticed he was a totally different person when he got home. Guess going in battle will do that to a person., he was in that firefight in Najaf back in 2004. Anyway, he seemed pretty depressed, didn’t seem to really want to do anything, & when asked what was wrong, we got the usual answer, NOTHING! Until one day, he opened up & him & I talked about what was bothering him. He was having really bad nightmares, said in them, he was back in Iraq, back in that fighting, woke up sweating, breathing hard, couldn’t go back to sleep knowing he could have those nightmares again, which, by the way he did. When his girlfriend, who is his wife now, stayed with him, he would wake her up by punching the holy crap out of her until she woke him him, & he realized what he was doing. He said he back in that fight again, was trying to defend himself. His father finally convinced him to go to the VA to try & get some help. Okay, he did, but, felt he wasn’t getting anywhere, because, he said all the psychiatrist would ask him is, HOW DOES THIS MAKE YOU FEEL. he told him how it made him feel, but, still felt he wasn’t getting anywhere with him. What helped him, was talking to other vets at his university that went through some of the same experiences he did, maybe not all of them in Iraq, some from Afghanistan, but, the oldest one, was a Vietnam vet that really helped him out. What Matthew told him was, that felt so guilty for being able to come home, while 30 from his unit didn’t. They lost 30 in one day in that Najaf battle, which lasted for 3 weeks He also told me, that during that fighting, you could see body parts everywhere, not knowing what part goes with what body. They fought in a cemetery which was 6 square miles & for as far as the eye could see, dead bodies & parts. So, for what that Vietnam vet told him that was told to him, he had what they call, the guilt complex, where he came home, & 30 of his friends didn’t. He said there’s things he can talk about with no problem, while there are things he will never be able to talk about for as long as he lives. But, I guess that’s true with anybody who has been in a war or battle. But, now, he’s really doing good. He’s in his 3rd year of med school here, got married 2 years ago, just had a baby girl 2 months ago, & he’s very happy now, & I honestly believe, if he didn’t talk to fellow vets, especially to Johann , he’s the Vietnam vet,who really helped him a lot, who knows where he would have ended up or how & for that matter, I am very thankful for. I’ll tell you one thing though, being in the Marines & going to Iraq twice, aged him by 10 years years, he has more gray hair than his older brother & he’s only 28, well, will be this coming Monday. No more nightmares,, at least, that I know of anyway.

    By the way, I hope you all are doing well & I will try to come here more often, like I said, I never know from day to day how things will be with my mom.

    Take Care everyone & thank you for being my friends too.

    • Thank You for sharing your story with us 🙂 A lot can be taken from this. Vets need help when they return from war, period. IMHO, every one of them should be assigned to a group of vets to talk too, like your son had. One thing that should be pointed out, to Charlie and Buck, mainly. Government HC didn’t work. Another example of why I’m totally against Universal HC. Thanks again Judy 🙂

      • Great to hear he’s doing better Judy … but G, I don’t think you’re qualified to say HC didn’t work. I don’t think any of us are qualified to say that. For one thing: no form of HC is a guarantee of anything … but isn’t it a better idea to have it available at no cost (especially to vets) than to do away with it? Come on, think it through … 🙂

        • When the patient says it failed, it failed IMHO. He didn’t need a shrink or pills, that’s what the VA gave him. But, I agree 100% that vets should have FREE healthcare to deal with their service related healthcare, for life. This may include non service related care as well, better safe than sorry. So we are on the same team here 🙂

          • “Vets should have FREE healthcare to deal with their service related healthcare, for life. This may [per Buck: SHOULD] include non service related care as well, better safe than sorry.”

            I completely agree; as should every single American.

          • Judy Sabatini says:

            Thanks G & Charlie, & yes, I’m glad he had somebody to share what he went through with other vets, something they can all relate to, each of them telling about the experience they had & how it affected them & how they dealt or dealing with it. I hope there are more groups out there for returning vets who need to talk about their experiences with other vets as well. Phys c help & pills aren’t always the answer, sometimes it takes a veteran to understand.

  14. What a blubbering, ah, ah, ah, ah, idiot. How can his approval rating be in the mid-30 percentile? Who are these suckers that fall for this BS?

  15. G, you probably shouldn’t listen to this one … but I’m really LOVING this group 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Poison cannot be called Food and have its character changed.

      A great example of what happens when a society allows the rot of socialism to progress to far. Ideas like Nationalized FEDERALLY PAID incomes start to look like a “good idea”.

      How sad.

    • Sweeeeet!. I choose not to work. Where my money at? And while the gettin is good…Where my food at?…Where my car at? My phone? My health insurance? Buck…work some more hours..I need a new house

      • Choose not to work….see how far that $10K gets you….

        • Just A Citizen says:

          The proposal made by the “libertarian” mentioned in the article is more like $23,000 per year.

          Based on the Fed Poverty Level and indexed to inflation.

          • Let me think back-at 21-the government would have given we 23,000 dollars. Wow that would have been fun. 🙂

    • From my old man. “if bread cost .59 per loaf and the government decided to give a bread allowance to every man, woman and child in the United States in the amount of $ 100.00 per week, next week, bread would cost $ 100.59!”

  16. Phil Donahue and Hannity … fun stuff … takes care of some of those anecdotes (to free thinking individuals) … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwViPpNxJu8

    • I love it when Hannity claims “Canadians are flocking to the U.S.”

      He must be right, I think I tripped over one this morning on my way to my car … I hope Buck is right … I hope this speeds the process along … universal health care, here we come!

  17. Let’s see if I can get a real answer for this question now. For the record, Buck ignored it and Charlie babbled some BS about other countries 🙂

    The problem is that someone has to pay for it. Unless Smokey Pants can just print money for it, LOL. Do you think that the people will pay 40% + in taxes to pay for it?

    • I’d pay 50% … I think most Americans, if income in this country was more equitable, would be more than happy to pay for it. Take away the corporate welfare (which far exceeds entitlements) and enough with the bloated defense industry … cut back on fraud and cap income the way FDR threatened to before an income tax was accepted and we’ll all be fine.

      • Fair enough Charlie. But income isn’t more equitable, corporate welfare exists and isn’t going away anytime soon, and the defense industry will stay bloated. Cut back of fraud, really, do you think in your wildest dreams this will happen in DC? FDR is dead, so going back to him won’t work.

        I knew you would do it, and you know I would NOT! Based on your terms, since they don’t exist, I’ll venture to say that Americans would NOT pay the taxes to support UHC. I’m just guessing, but I think this would be what most people would answer. Nice answer though 🙂

        • Under “this” government, nothing will happen. Under a government by the people for the people, miracles could happen. Not a Utopian state (that’s just the bumper sticker phrase the right hangs on to because they fear the people will like it just fine), but a state where the excesses aren’t so exaggerated (1% owning 94% of the country’s assets) … that’s a recipe for disaster and it’s come to a theatre near us all soon. When Americans are no longer accepted the BS dished out by the right (and SUFA) :), it will handle paying more taxes just fine. You tell people they’re kids can go to college with taking out a mortgage, they have universal health care and no longer have to fear losing everything they own so some asshole CEO gets to cash out for multi-millions after bankrupting his company, the people will opt for higher taxes every time. Fear of losing liberty is all the right has to hang it’s fear on … it’s getting old and it’s now up against people losing what they have while fat cats piss in gold toilets … not to worry, it’ll change. How it happens is up to the fat cats … they’ll probably be the ones hanging from trees in the end … 🙂

          • My big Communist friend 🙂 Love the rant. A lot of what you want sounds great. But, it can’t happen till the American people see the Left for what they are, LIARS. (now, this statement and your statement about the right are exactly what the Ruling class wants us to say 🙂 ). This is what keeps us from realizing that fixing all the problems will not likely ever happen. The Third World will never crawl out of poverty, because of the Left (and that’s what the ruling class wants) The poor will always be ruled by the LEFT, proven here in the US. So, before you start on the Right (which is easy to do), the LEFT should clean up their own wrongs first. That won’t happen because of the ruling class that keeps the people divided under the fairy tale Left/Right paradigm.

            Until we can all come together and realize what our problems stem from (it’s the ruling class…….), the problems will persist. With that said blaming the Right (and the other way around) is playing right into their hands. 🙂

            Nice rant though 🙂

  18. Great hunting today, back at it in the morning! Tomorrow, another beautiful sunrise 🙂

  19. A day late and a whole lot of dollars short. Dems to get crushed in 2014. Palin 2016 🙂

    http://nypost.com/2013/11/14/white-house-to-allow-users-to-keep-insurance-under-obamacare/

    Oh, what a bucket of lies he spewed today, what an embarrassment to our country 😦

  20. UH OH! Is this the beginning of outing the “REAL” racists?

    As if this story were written by Dave Chappelle himself, a white supremacist finds out on national TV that he’s 14 percent African. As for Cobb, 14 percent is not exactly a “rounding error” on the genealogy footprint. Talk about a kick in the naughty bits…and on national TV! Lucky for Craig Cobb, this footage was filmed in the UK, as this could give Cobb just enough time to sneak back to the white racist compound (also the Democrat Headquarters for that part of North Dakota) and collect his “shstuff.”

    Read more at http://conservativevideos.com/2013/11/white-supremacist-finds-14-percent-black-dna-test/#51hXKdlEgFb48L76.99

    • Interesting. Did you see Bret Beier’s show tonight? Member of Intelligence Committee was on and said the classified testimony they’ve been getting the last couple days from some of the survivors contradicts the adm’s stories. He said he believes the survivors.

      • No, I didn’t see the show-but in all honesty I’m not sure how much more we need to know. They lied about the video, they knew it was a very dangerous situation-I didn’t see the email, which I don’t believe, isn’t a reasonable excuse-if you were doing your job you would have-we didn’t have the necessary assets to help-I don’t believe that either but even if it was true-they should of had the resources. There is no excuse for what they did in this situation.

        Well, I’ll rephrase, there may be a lot more we need to know about what was going on in Benghazi-but we don’t need anymore information to know that they totally screwed up from the beginning to the end which resulted in dead people. Why they let these people die-that I would like to know!

        • “we need to know about what was going on in Benghazi” – and that, VH, is why the cover-up is so deep and (apparently) necessary to this adm. – even to the point of letting people die, or even perhaps setting them up to die if they knew too much. I suspect it goes to the root of o’s ties and help to the Muslim Brotherhood and Syria. People in congress obviously know by now, like this guy on the Intelligence Committee, but seem to be afraid of it “just coming out” and are doing it to control the outrage??? I don’t know.

  21. Cops: Man fired cannon during dispute

    Posted: Nov 14, 2013 7:24 AM CST Updated: Nov 14, 2013 7:26 AM CST

    New York State News New York State News
    KIANTONE, N.Y. (AP) – Authorities say a western New York man has been charged with harassment for repeatedly firing an unloaded Civil War cannon at the homes of his neighbors.

    The Chautauqua County Sheriff’s Office says 52-year-old Brian Malta fired the cannon at neighboring homes in the rural town of Kiantone, on the Pennsylvania border 60 miles south of Buffalo.

    Deputies say the cannon was fired with only a powder charge and wadding. Police confiscated the cannon.

    Officials say Malta had an ongoing dispute with his neighbors, but no details were released.

    Malta was arrested Wednesday and charged with three counts of harassment and three counts of menacing. He was released from the county jail after posting $2,500 bail.

    It couldn’t immediately be determined if Malta had a lawyer.

    Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/Story/23967279/cops-upstate-ny-man-fired-cannon-during-dispute#ixzz2kiQbD8Vi
    Follow us: @myfoxny on Twitter | Fox5NY on Facebook

    For some reason I thought of D13 when I read this -he he he 🙂

    • Charlie can put this up next to Chomsky! Friedman s ideas were actually tried and worked!

      • Friedman’s ideas are the crux of our problems today, my man. Listen and learn (instead of yapping) 🙂

        • I stopped at 1:42. This man is totally full of elephant shit 🙄 No wonder why people are so brainwashed when they leave college. They hear crap like this all day long 🙄

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Charlie

          You have posted this talk here many times. Some of us have provided in depth explanations of his flaws in argument. YOU simply dismiss us as ignorant because Chomsky has written more books or attended University longer. I am not sure actually.

          So I am going to ask you a question that will require a thoughtful response.

          WHY do you think Chomsky’s take on Libertarianism and his theory that the US version is somehow wrong to be the DEFINITIVE take on this matter?

          • I do recall many of the discussions. Chomsky is part of the Left Wing religion, a puppet for the ruling class. Charlie likes him because he agrees with him, all part of the religion known as Liberalism. But you do pose a good question 🙂

            Hope today finds you and yours Happy and Healthy 🙂

          • “Some of us have provided in depth explanations of his flaws in argument.”

            JAC, like when, exactly? All anyone has ever done in regard to Chomsky is deny his credibility (which is nothing more than what G accuses me of: you don’t agree with him, he’s therefore wrong). The Democratic left is terrified of Chomsky because he exposes the Democratic Party for what it is, Republican Light. I used Chomsky footnotes in political science papers 36 years ago in a research paper on the US’s exploitation of the 3rd world (can you deny that as well?) … he’s everything the right shits their pants about because he comes to the table with facts … you can excuse his philosophy, but not his facts. They are facts we’re not used to hearing in the good old US&A because they upset the myth. Sorry, but way too many prominent universities (worldwide) accept Chomsky as credible for me to deny it the way SUFA has to deny it (or you’re all wrong) … so it goes. Hey, yous have a good time this weekend … I’m off to the book launch in 30 minutes … what a drive!

      • Stop trying to show Charlie that his beliefs about Capitalism is pure BS. He has the right to practice any religion he want in this country 🙂 (I have concluded that the Anti-Capitalists can join the Global Warmers as a religion) After all, it’s only fair 🙂

  22. Ben Stein’s Diary
    Is This Really Happening?

    Obama accedes to Israel’s possible annihilation.

    By Ben Stein

    I really cannot believe what I am seeing in the news about the U.S. and Iran. In 2013, less than 70 years after the end of the Hitler regime in Europe that killed half of all of the Jews in the world, roughly half of the Jews in the world are threatened with annihilation again—and the U.S. administration is not only going along with it, but cheering on the possibility.

    Hitler did not have nuclear weapons, thank God, and there was no tiny little country like Israel where 7 million of the race he hated with such a crazed vengeance lived. So he had to send police and militia and the Gestapo and the SS and local anti-Semites to round up the Jews, move them to nearby fields for shooting or beating, or in trains to death factories like Auschwitz where thousands of Jews a day were gassed in the most horrible circumstances imaginable.

    The Iranians in the recent past have pledged to destroy the Jewish people in the Middle East. Some of their leaders have boasted that if Iran gets nuclear weapons, Iran will have “a holocaust in an afternoon” by rocketing a few nuclear weapons into Israel. Naturally, the Israelis are desperately worried.
    AD FEEDBACK

    The Jews of this world take threats of annihilation seriously. The U.S. has been extremely helpful by applying sanctions to Iran to persuade them to stop and destroy their nuclear arms program.

    Now, just recently, we have seen a new government in Iran. It has sent out peace feelers. If the western powers will greatly ease the sanctions, Iran, so they promise, will freeze its nuclear program where it stands now—some months from having a working bomb.

    The problem is that Iran has made many promises about stopping the nuclear program. It has not kept any of them. It has not signed the non-proliferation treaty. It has not allowed inspectors in its most secret plants. It has raced on towards nuclear weapons that could in a half hour or less cause another holocaust.

    Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terror. Many of its top brass have expressed a wish to see an earth rid of Jews altogether. For Mr. Obama to trust these people—the same ones who killed 300 Marines in a terror attack in Beirut 30 years ago last month—to actually change their stripes and suddenly become trustworthy is deeply naive or worse. If that trust turns out to be mistaken, it’s a bad day for Mr. Obama.

    It’s death for Israel. It’s another Holocaust and the world—except for France—is standing by saying, “Go for it, Iran. We trust you.” There is something Biblically horrifying about the whole situation. Congress can stop it. Congress can say that the world will not take the word of the world’s most vile terrorist sponsor about whether Israel might live or die.

    This is no time to reduce the sanctions. If Iran actually destroys its nuclear factories and labs, that’s a better bet. But just for a promise of a freeze to stop the sanctions that can be reversed in hours? Have we learned absolutely nothing from Hitler? Will we have the most wicked stain possible on the human race again within one lifetime? Obviously, Mr. Obama is willing to take the chance—with the lives of seven million Jews. Maybe Congress will have more heart

    http://spectator.org/articles/56494/really-happening

    • Just A Citizen says:

      If we accept the concept that a moral and just Nation must be founded upon moral and just principles and that those principles must in turn be constructed upon a sound philosophy which includes reason and rational thinking, then we must ask a very serious question.

      What are the moral or ethical principles, what is the base philosophy, what are the values, etc, that give the USA the authority or responsibility to dictate to other nations whether they should or should not have nuclear weapons??

      WHY should we or anyone else have any say in the matter?

      Ready, set, go……….

      • WE shouldn’t have any say at all. If it’s such a problem that Iran gets a nuke, which I think is BS, then we can tell them in no uncertain terms that if they use it, we turn their country into glass. Why shouldn’t they have nukes for defense? They say it’s for electricity, that’s fine. Israel can take care of themselves.

        • I have a question-you say Israel can take care of themselves-do you believe that we stay out of Israels business?

          • We can provide aid like we do any other country for now (I think all $ aid should stop). Other than that and ensuring that there won’t be another holocaust, let them be on their own.

            • Not sure how we can prevent another holocaust by minding our own business-at this point we and the world at large have been minding other Countries business for years. But now we’re suppose to step back and allow Iran to get this type of weaponry. We and many other countries and organizations like the UN have been stopping Israel from taking care of herself -hell we’re still doing it-they might not be in this situation if they had been left alone to make their own decisions. I don’t know what’s the perfect moral plan a country should follow for when they interfere and when they shouldn’t. Whatever that principled rule would be -it would still be like defining anything else -left up to a lot of interpretation.

              • Look, James Earl (Jimmy) Carter did it. There is not a damned thing we can do about it short of killing a few more hundred thousand people and moving the ball from one middle eastern cesspool into another. Like it or not, it is Israel’s problem. Outside of giving them whatever logistical or material support they need, it is them not us who must deal with the hand that WE, THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA and our President dealt them.

              • Perhaps but again that is not us minding our own business or even Israel can take care of herself.

            • “in more than 50 years, 82% of all UN General Assembly emergency session meetings have been about condemning Israel”

              Hard to believe isn’t it!

              ‘Bad Sh**’: Epic Hot Mic Moment Catches Translator Saying What Some (Including TheBlaze) Have Noticed
              Nov. 17, 2013 9:08am Sharona Schwartz

              A United Nations interpreter translating the proceedings of the General Assembly on Thursday was caught – not realizing her microphone was still piping her voice into the chamber – expressing her dismay that the world body is so focused on condemning Israel while ignoring every other country in the world.

              Following votes at the General Assembly’s Fourth Committee which includes all 193 UN member states, nine resolutions were adopted condemning Israel. Not one resolution was adopted targeting any other country, not even Syria where more than 100,000 have been killed in just two-and-a-half years.

              The unnamed interpreter, unaware she was still being heard both by delegates and online via a live webcast, said, “I mean, I think when you have five statements, not five, like a total of ten resolutions on Israel and Palestine, there’s gotta be something, c’est un peu trop, non? [It’s a bit much, no?] I mean I know… There’s other really bad sh** happening, but no one says anything, about the other stuff.”

              – Scroll down for video –
              Bad Sh**: Epic Hot Mic Moment Catches Translator Saying What Some (Including TheBlaze) Have Noticed

              Awkward smiles as a UN interpreter shared her candid thoughts, not knowing she was being heard (Screenshot: UN webcast via YouTube)

              After the translator spoke, the delegate chairing the meeting could be seen trying to suppress his laughter. This as other delegates laughed audibly after hearing the interpreter’s candid opinion about their work, including her use of an expletive.

              Once she realized what was happening, the translator said, “apologies” after which the Secretary of the meeting commented, “I understand there was a problem with interpretation?”

              The translator could then be heard saying “The interpeter apologizes.”

              UN Watch, a non-governmental organization which monitors events at the United Nations, first caught the gaffe and posted a recording of it on YouTube.

              The disproportionate targeting of Israel at the UN is a phenomenon about which TheBlaze has reported (for example, here and here).

              Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday played the clip of the interpreter’s candid assessment at the weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem. Should her job be threatened, Netanyahu said she would have a place to work in Israel, Ynet reported.

              “I would like to tell this translator that she has a job waiting for her in the State of Israel. There are moments that tear the hypocrisy off the unending attacks against us and this brave translator did so,” he said according to a translation of the text posted by the Prime Minister’s Office website.

              According to UN Watch, the nine resolutions that were overwhelmingly adopted Thursday were those:

              “Expressing grave concern” at Palestinian refugees “especially difficult situation.”
              Reaffirming the “right” of Palestinians who left their homes during the 1967 war to return to their former residences.
              Expressing grave concern about the “extremely difficult” conditions of Palestinians including those in Jerusalem.
              Reaffirming that Palestinian refugees are “entitled to their property.”
              A resolution that “deplores” Israel for its alleged practices that “that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people.”
              Demanding Israel accept “Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967.”
              Reaffirming that “Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan are illegal and an obstacle to peace and economic and social development.”
              “Expressing grave concern about the continuing systematic violation of the human rights of the Palestinian people by Israel, the occupying Power.”
              “The Israeli decision to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration on the occupied Syrian Golan was null and void and without international legal effect and demanded that Israel, the occupying Power, rescind forthwith its decision,” read another resolution.

              It’s noteworthy that the UN chose to condemn Israel over its decision to extend Israeli law to the Golan Heights in light of the activity of Al Qaeda-linked jihadi rebels over the border in Syria.

              “That’s right: the UN adopted a resolution today that mentions the word ‘Syria’ no less than 10 times—yet said nothing of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s massacre of more than 100,000 of his own people,” wrote Hillel Neuer, Executive Director of UN Watch.

              In an op-ed in the Times of Israel, Neuer pointed out that by next month which marks the end of its annual legislative session, 22 resolutions will have been adopted targeting Israel and only four discussing other countries.

              “The hypocrisy, selectivity, and politicization are staggering,” Neuer wrote.

              It also follows a pattern. Last year’s legislative session was closed “in a blaze of glory” as former Reagan administration official Elliot Abrams noted with the passing of nine resolutions against Israel in just one day, December 18.

              Israel has been singled out by the UN General Assembly more times than any other country for alleged human rights violations.

              According to Eye on the UN, another non-governmental group, in more than 50 years, 82% of all UN General Assembly emergency session meetings have been about condemning Israel. The group noted in 2011 that of the UN Human Right’s Council’s resolutions, 47% critical of specific countries condemned Israel.

              “I sincerely hope she [the interpreter] won’t get fired. Because the one who should really apologize today is the UN. Founded on noble ideals, the world body is turning the dream of liberal internationalists into a nightmare,” Neuer wrote.

              “It is the UN who should apologize for using Israel as a scapegoat, for demonizing and delegitimizing the Jewish state as a meta-criminal to be blamed for all of the world’s ills. And, above all, it is the UN who should apologize for ignoring the cries of the world’s millions of genuine human rights victims—and for mocking them,” Neuer added.

              http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/17/bad-sh-epic-hot-mic-moment-catches-translator-saying-what-some-including-theblaze-have-noticed/

  23. Mom Furious After Son Makes Honor Roll With C’s and D’s
    by Jon David Kahn 15 Nov 2013, 6:43 AM PDT
    PASCO COUNTY, Florida – Parents are generally proud when their child makes the honor roll, but Beth Tillack, the mother of one such student at Pasco Middle School, is anything but beaming. When examining her son’s report card, Tillack read hand written comments from his teacher – including “good job,” a smiley face and a note saying her son had made the honor roll. The only problem was, her son received a “C” and “D” among the grades.

    “I immediately assumed it’s a mistake,” said Tillack. “It doesn’t make any sense. The bottom line is there is nothing honorable about making a D. I was not happy, because how can I get my child to study for a test when he thinks he’s done enough.”

    Pasco Middle School Principal Kim Anderson explained that handwriting notes of encouragement has been a practice among teachers at the school since the 1990’s. However, after Tillack lodged her complaint, Anderson said the school revoked the first draft of her son’s report card and replaced the “good job” with “Work on Civics. Ask for help.”

    “I think I’ll caution teachers to look at the report cards carefully,” Anderson said.

    Anderson justified the boy’s place on the honor roll suggesting that its membership is based on points and even an “F” could be offset by enough A’s. The point system, according to Anderson, is Pasco School District policy and it’s a policy she does not support. “I do think it’s important that we look at the situation,” Anderson said.

    A Pasco School District Spokesperson confirmed that school leaders are now reviewing the policy and considering a change of the requirements for honor roll. If changed, it could potentially impact some 35,000 Pasco middle and high school students – most of whom thought they were really smart.

    http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/11/15/Mom-Furious-After-Son-Makes-Honor-Roll-With-C-s-and-D-s

  24. Or yous can always read one of his, I don’t know, 100 or so books … 🙂
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Noam+Chomsky

    • Being an author does NOT mean the person is smart. 🙂

      • Like I told JAC, Chomsky is a puppet of the ruling class. Just like Rush Limbaugh. Nothing will get done because of people like this. Keep the division strong, you keep the ruling class strong. By the way, I’m not implying your not smart, just talking about your Church Pastor Cardinal Chomsky 🙂

  25. I know, I know … they should get over it already (sarcasm intended) 🙂
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

    • Not really Charlie. History is important so the mistakes made are not repeated. The tragedies of the past involving race should be a big part of history in school too! Teach the kids how wrong it was. Now, if we can only address black on black crime the same way 🙄

  26. Just A Citizen says:

    Ladies and Gentlemen. I give you a pretty good summary of Charlie’s Proposition. It seems to me he should now have to build the case supporting his claims, rather than simply relying on the rhetoric of others. The following was on Wikipedia under Wage Labour which was connected to the entry on Capitalism. For those who wish to dig deeper.

    “Socialists see wage labour as a major, if not defining, aspect of hierarchical industrial systems. Most opponents of the institution support worker self-management and economic democracy as alternatives to both wage-labour and to capitalism. While most opponents of wage labour blame the capitalist owners of the means of production for its existence, most anarchists and other libertarian socialists also hold the state as equally responsible as it exists as a tool utilised by capitalists to subsidise themselves and protect the institution of private ownership of the means of production—which guarantees the concentration of capital among a wealthy elite leaving the majority of the population without access. As some opponents of wage labour take influence from Marxist propositions, many are opposed to private property, but maintain respect for personal property.

    A point of criticism is that after people have been compelled by economic necessity to no feasible alternative than that of wage labour, exploitation occurs; thus the claim that wage labour is “voluntary” on the part of the labourer is considered a red herring as the relationship is only entered into due to systemic coercion brought about by the inequality of bargaining power between labour and capital as classes.

    Wage labour has long been compared by socialists to slavery, and has thus acquired the epithet wage slavery.[3] Similarly, advocates of slavery looked upon the “comparative evils of Slave Society and of Free Society, of slavery to human Masters and slavery to Capital,”[4] and proceeded to argue persuasively that wage slavery was actually worse than chattel slavery.[5] Slavery apologists like George Fitzhugh contended that workers only accepted wage labour with the passage of time, as they became “familiarized and inattentive to the infected social atmosphere they continually inhale[d].”[6]

    The slave, together with his labour-power, was sold to his owner once for all. . . . The [wage] labourer, on the other hand, sells his very self, and that by fractions. . . . He [belongs] to the capitalist class; and it is for him . . . to find a buyer in this capitalist class.[7]

    For Marxists, labour-as-commodity, which is how they regard wage labour,[8] provides an absolutely fundamental point of attack against capitalism.[9] “It can be persuasively argued,” noted one concerned philosopher, “that the conception of the worker’s labour as a commodity confirms Marx’s stigmatization of the wage system of private capitalism as ‘wage-slavery;’ that is, as an instrument of the capitalist’s for reducing the worker’s condition to that of a slave, if not below it.”[10] That this objection is fundamental follows immediately from Marx’s conclusion that wage labour is the very foundation of capitalism: “Without a class dependent on wages, the moment individuals confront each other as free persons, there can be no production of surplus value; without the production of surplus-value there can be no capitalist production, and hence no capital and no capitalist!”[11]”

  27. Oprah is out there flapping again, which is not the point, and who cares anyway..but I like a couple of these comments about race, and racists…

    Oprah: “There’s a level of disrespect for the office that occurs. And that occurs in some cases and maybe even many cases because he’s African American. There’s no question about that and it’s the kind of thing nobody ever says but everybody’s thinking it.”

    What Oprah REALLY means is that people hate him BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE. Which makes HER the racist.

    And oh, BTW, it was middle class white women who made you so popular. It’s the same testament to stupidity that Obumuh got elected and got you rich’n’famous. So quit calling us racists

    • Gmanfortruth says:

      This is what many liberals have become, racists. They go to the Chomsky Church of Liberalism. 🙂

    • Oprah is doing major damage to her brand by again pulling out the race card. Shame on her.

    • ” Oprah: “There’s a level of disrespect for the office that occurs. And that occurs in some cases and maybe even many cases because he’s African American. There’s no question about that and it’s the kind of thing nobody ever says but everybody’s thinking it.” ”

      I think I get what she was trying to say.

      Black folks often have to overcompensate to try to maintain a level of integrity as representing their race, …because there are always people who are going to look at them as lesser-than. As soon as that integrity is wavered, the racists receive validation.

      I have a mixed friend, who I kinda thought was a little oversensitive and/or paranoid about his race, …until he was detained by police while out shopping for back to school supplies with his light-skinned daughter. He was being accused of kidnapping his own daughter by a shopper who was suspicious of him. WTH?

      His experience taught me that it is very real. It is not so common anymore, but it is indeed real. Obama has the same issue with integrity, …only as acting president. It’s one hell of a burden when you think about it. How would you like to be in his shoes? No matter what he does, there are large number of people that will always be looking for an excuse to call him a monkey.

      What I find so interestingly ironic, is that we are all ‘monkeys’. That’s what RH+ blood is about. Humans share DNA code with the Rhesus Monkey.

      My best educated guess is that we are a left-over discard garbage mutt species from earlier visitors…created in their image and likeness, only lacking something as to limit us. And whatever that is, was replaced with monkey genes. Some of them were left behind and interbred with humans, thus reinserting whatever was unintended. We still have something, but for the most part, we are all trash. …Ya know… ‘7 billion monkeys throwing poop at each other.’

      I would love to have a definitive answer as to our true origins.

    • “And oh, BTW, it was middle class white women who made you so popular.”

      Nah, that was capitalism … 🙂

      Go Bills!

  28. Here’s the answer to a successful government healthcare program: let illegal immigrants in on it! As I’m sure you all have seen/heard too, there have been some absolutely idiotic statements coming from the left – desperation does funny things to people.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/15/legalizing-illegal-immigrants-solution-obamacare-d/

  29. Really, really sick of this double standard. Let’s just say the N-word is no big deal for anyone. What a crock.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/11/16/ESPN-Host-I-Use-N-Word-All-Day-Every-Day-My-Whole-Life

    • Wow-he demands to retain the word that was trust upon him-so it’s on his head if the word is trust upon his children.

  30. Judy Sabatini says:
  31. Rubio to introduce bill that would repeal “risk corridor” — a.k.a. bailout — provisions of ObamaCare
    posted at 2:01 pm on November 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

    Goooood politics. I’m 90 percent sure it won’t pass, but last week I would have told you I was 100 percent sure. At the rate O and his boondoggle are melting down on the Hill, there’s no down side to trying to force Democrats to vote on all sorts of bills that would chip away at parts of O-Care. Worst-case scenario: They fail but with some Democratic support, which means a rolling PR disaster for the White House and a very small margin of error going forward lest the Democratic turncoats in Congress start thinking maybe it’d be better to repeal this thing and be done with it.

    How about it, Mary Landrieu? Yes or no to tossing billions in hard-earned tax money at insurers to clean up the gigantic mess you, they, and Obama have made?

    Obamacare includes a provision that allows the federal government to funnel taxpayer dollars to insurers that face the prospect of losing too much money under the new health care law, and conservative critics want to repeal it.

    Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., said the provision could amount to a bailout of the insurance industry, which stands to lose if the troubled Obamacare exchanges fail to enroll enough people to make the system financially viable. Obamacare enrollment has already been stymied by glitches at the healthcare.gov sign-up site and it could be dampened again under an administrative fix President Obama proposed this week to resolve problems with millions of cancelled policies…

    “We need to protect taxpayers from having to bail out anyone as a consequence of Obamacare,” Conant said in an email exchange with the Washington Examiner. “Rubio’s bill will fully repeal the ‘risk corridor’ provision in Obamacare, preventing a bailout.”

    If you’re unfamiliar with the “risk corridor,” read David Freddoso’s short but useful explainer from last month. Nutshell version: An insurer who’s offering a plan on the ObamaCare exchange sends a cost projection for that plan to HHS. If it comes in a bit under cost, they cut a check to HHS for the difference; if it comes in a bit over cost, HHS cuts them a check to make up the shortfall. It’s a way for insurers to spread the risk of cost miscalculations among themselves. Adrianna McIntyre, the economist who inspired Freddoso’s post, calls it “insurance for the insurers.” So far, so good. Problem is, there’s no cap on losses that HHS might be forced to cover if lots and lots of individual plans end up costing way more than the insurers projected. If a plan’s actual cost exceeds 103 percent of the projection, Uncle Sam covers half of the overrun; if actual cost exceeds 108 percent of the projection, Uncle Sam covers 80 percent.

    If ObamaCare was working perfectly, the risk of many plans coming in way over budget would be small. Healthy people would be enrolling by the millions on Healthcare.gov, flooding insurers with tons of new revenue they could use to pay for sick people’s preexisting conditions. Thanks to President Bumblefark’s incompetence, though, Healthcare.gov is a smoking ruin; young healthy people can’t sign up, which means no cash for insurance companies to cover their hefty new expenses. That leaves Uncle Sam partially on the hook for the difference. The punchline, though, is that Obama’s “fix” yesterday only makes it worse. If insurers bring back the old, cheap plans, all of the healthy people who’ve had their coverage dropped and who are supposed to provide new revenue by buying the more expensive exchange plans will revert to their old coverage. That’ll leave the exchange plans with even more sick enrollees and fewer healthies, compounding insurers’ losses. Uncle Sam’s on the hook for even more now.

    Via the Weekly Standard, here’s David Cutler, one of the architects of O-Care, admitting last night that an insurance industry death spiral isn’t out of the question here. In fact, though, the “risk corridor” is designed to reduce the risk of a death spiral; so are the taxpayer subsidies for lower-income enrollees on the exchanges, which can (at least theoretically) be increased to keep pace with premiums if/when they start to rise. Without the risk corridor and the subsidies, the only way for insurers to make back their losses this year is to jack up premiums next year, which will further discourage healthy people from enrolling, which in turn will make the exchange risk pools even sicker and more costly, and thus the death spiral is set in motion. Thanks to Uncle Sam’s “generosity,” they might not have to do that. But all of this points to the same basic fact: The more adverse selection there is on the new exchanges, the more unanticipated costs there’ll be. Those costs will be borne either by the insurance industry, if Rubio’s bill prevails and the “risk corridor” provision is eliminated, or mostly by the federal government, in the form of a bailout and higher subsidies. The political challenge of Rubio’s bill for Democrats is that they don’t want to be on the wrong side of yet another TARP-like government giveaway to an unpopular industry, but on the other hand they can’t take away insurers’ “risk corridor” safety net or else the industry might turn on ObamaCare and then the whole thing will implode. Dilemmas, dilemmas.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/15/rubio-to-introduce-bill-that-would-repeal-risk-corridor-a-k-a-bailout-provisions-of-obamacare/

    Hmmmm-this doesn’t sound like competition working-it sounds like they are setting us up for another to-big-to-fail situation.

  32. I really don’t understand how this ‘keep your plan bill’ is anything more than smoke and mirrors.

  33. How do you kill monkeys throwing poop at each other?

    Answer: Give them grenades instead.

  34. I find this a perfect analogy for Obamacare:

    “the president is like a man who burns your house down and then shows up with an empty water bucket, and then delivers a lecture on how bad your house was before he burned it down. That’s an untenable position for the president to be in.”

    I just find it very hard to understand why democrats keep insisting this monstrosity is a good first step. Is it because you believe it will lead to single payer? Do you really think taking a step that is insane in order to force people to do what you think is right is the way to go-Let’s face it-if the majority wanted single payer-You could pass single payer.

    George Will: Obama has turned the White House press room into the third chamber of Congress [VIDEO]
    4:39 PM 11/17/2013

    Washington Post columnist George Will declared President Barack Obama has in some ways made the White House briefing room its own part of the legislative branch.

    As Will explained on this weekend’s broadcast of “Fox News Sunday,” Obama has shown a willingness to bypass the legislative process and alter laws when needed which makes the press room its own part of Congress.

    “Well, I think Republicans have offered serious alternatives all along,” Will said. “But right now — no, I mean, the president, his name is on it. He did it without any other votes, so live with it. One Republican put it brazenly, Scalise of Louisiana — congressman. He said the president is like a man who burns your house down and then shows up with an empty water bucket, and then delivers a lecture on how bad your house was before he burned it down. That’s an untenable position for the president to be in.”

    “It was nine months ago, an official of the Centers on Medicaid and Medicare Services told a conference, what we want to avoid [is] a third-world experience. And we’ve had the third world experience. And what Judy rather delicately calls the president’s accommodation
    looks to a great many of us to be illegal. What we’re told in grade school when we study civics is that in that building behind you are the two legislative chambers of the federal government, Senate and the House. It turns out there is a third, it’s called the White House press room, into which the president can, on a whim, sashay and rewrite laws. It’s an extraordinary civics lesson.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/17/george-will-obama-has-turned-the-white-house-press-room-into-the-third-chamber-of-congress-video/#ixzz2l0Tpv4Ox

  35. Dispute Over Gay Marriage Erupts in Cheney Family
    By JONATHAN MARTIN
    Dick Cheney with his daughters, Mary Cheney, left, and Liz, at the Republican National Convention in 2000.Ed Reinke/Associated Press Dick Cheney with his daughters, Mary Cheney, left, and Liz, at the Republican National Convention in 2000.

    Updated, 10:09 p.m. | WASHINGTON — They were the towheaded sisters who tagged along on campaigns, polite and smiling, as their father rose through Wyoming and then Washington politics to become one of the most powerful men in the country.

    “We were as close as sisters can be,” recalled Mary Cheney of her relationship with her older sister, Liz.

    But now, a feud between the two has spilled into public view, involving social media, an angry same-sex spouse, a high-profile election and a father who feels uncomfortably caught between his two children.

    The situation has deteriorated so much that the two sisters have not spoken since the summer, and the quarrel threatens to get in the way of something former Vice President Dick Cheney desperately wants — a United States Senate seat for Liz.

    Things erupted on Sunday when Mary Cheney, a lesbian, and her wife were at home watching “Fox News Sunday” — their usual weekend ritual. Liz Cheney appeared on the show and said that she opposed same-sex marriage, describing it as “just an area where we disagree,” referring to her sister. Taken aback and hurt, Mary Cheney took to her Facebook page to blast back: “Liz — this isn’t just an issue on which we disagree you’re just wrong — and on the wrong side of history.”

    But then Mary Cheney’s wife, Heather Poe, went further, touching on Liz Cheney’s relocation from Northern Virginia to Wyoming to seek office. (Liz Cheney is already battling accusations of carpetbagging in the race.)
    Liz Cheney at a campaign appearance in July.Matt Young/Associated Press Liz Cheney at a campaign appearance in July.

    “I can’t help but wonder how Liz would feel if as she moved from state to state, she discovered that her family was protected in one but not the other,” Ms. Poe wrote on her Facebook page. “Yes, Liz,” she added, “in fifteen states and the District of Columbia you are my sister-in-law.”

    The feud reveals tensions not just within the family but in the Republican Party more broadly as it seeks to respond to both a changing America and an energized, fervently conservative base.

    Indeed, while Liz Cheney seeks to make clear her opposition to same-sex marriage, her father more than a decade ago was able to embrace fairly moderate views on the subject, breaking publicly with President George W. Bush over Mr. Bush’s support for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. He has gone further still since then, telling Barbara Walters in 2011, “I certainly don’t have any problem with” same-sex marriage.

    But Ms. Cheney, in her bid to defeat Republican Senator Michael B. Enzi of Wyoming, is running to his right and seeking to capture conservatives and Tea Party enthusiasts.

    Liz Cheney on Sunday declined to directly address the remarks from her sister and sister-in-law, but said in an email: “I love my sister and her family and have always tried to be compassionate towards them. I believe that is the Christian way to behave.”

    People who have spoken to Liz Cheney say she is irritated that her sister is making their dispute public and believes it is hypocritical for Mary Cheney to take such a hard line now, given that she worked for the re-election of President Bush, an opponent of same-sex marriage.

    The relationship between the two sisters used to be quite different. The daughters drew especially close when their father ran as Mr. Bush’s running mate in 2000 and eventually became a figure of great controversy and enormous power as vice president. After Mr. Cheney left office in 2009, politically bruised and physically ailing, the sisters, who lived 15 minutes apart in Washington’s tony Northern Virginia suburbs, would join their parents for a standing Sunday dinner at Liz’s house in McLean each week, along with their families, including Ms. Poe.

    Mary Cheney, 44, said in a phone interview Sunday that she presumed her sister shared her father’s views on marriage, and that view was reinforced because Liz Cheney “was always very supportive” of her relationship with Ms. Poe and the couple’s two children. She learned otherwise in August when Liz Cheney declared, shortly after announcing her Senate candidacy, that she was opposed to same-sex marriage rights. Mary Cheney said it is now “impossible” for the sisters to reconcile as long as Liz Cheney maintains that position.

    “What amazes me is that she says she’s running to be a new generation of leader,” Mary Cheney said, citing her 47-year-old sister’s slogan in her campaign against Mr. Enzi, 69. “I’m not sure how sticking to the positions of the last 20 or 30 years is the best way to do that.”

    Mary Cheney said it was her wife’s idea for the couple to take to Facebook to respond to Liz’s televised remarks. Ms. Poe seemed especially hurt that her sister-in-law had acted so embracing toward them in private, and then took this public position.

    “Liz has been a guest in our home, has spent time and shared holidays with our children, and when Mary and I got married in 2012 — she didn’t hesitate to tell us how happy she was for us,” Ms. Poe wrote. “To have her say she doesn’t support our right to marry is offensive to say the least.”

    In the interview, Mary Cheney, who is a longtime political consultant, said she would continue to raise the matter. Reminded by a reporter that such criticism could complicate her sister’s Senate campaign, Mary Cheney offered a clipped answer reminiscent of her father’s terse style. “O.K.,” she said, before letting silence fill the air.

    It is not the substance of the issue that could hurt Liz Cheney in Wyoming — her opponent also opposes same-sex marriage. But the ugly family drama and questions about what Liz Cheney truly believes could reinforce questions about her authenticity in a place where many voters have met their politicians in person and are already skeptical of an outsider like Ms. Cheney, who has lived elsewhere for much of her life. Ms. Cheney’s first ad, which she released last week, was devoted entirely to emphasizing her family’s Wyoming roots.

    Wyoming, a sprawling but sparsely populated state, has rarely seen such high-profile primaries, and this one has already featured an ugly Cheney family episode: After former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson, a longtime friend of the family who served with Mr. Cheney in the state’s congressional delegation, fretted to The New York Times this summer about how Liz Cheney’s challenge of Mr. Enzi would be divisive among the state’s Republicans, Lynne Cheney, the sisters’ mother and Mr. Cheney’s wife, confronted him at a charity event and told him to “just shut up” — three times, Mr. Simpson claimed. When Lynne Cheney later said that the exchange never happened, Mr. Simpson called her denial “a damn baldfaced lie.”

    The former vice president is active and visible in his daughter’s Senate bid and this Wednesday, he will join her in Denver for a fund-raiser to benefit her campaign. Early polls show Liz Cheney trailing Mr. Enzi, but her fund-raising since declaring her candidacy has been robust.

    As for Mary Cheney, she said that when she gets together with her parents these days, they know which subjects not to bring up. “They come over for dinner and we don’t talk about Liz or the race,” she said. “There is so much more to talk about.”

    The Cheneys have tried to be “as neutral as they can,” added Mary Cheney, who just returned from a pheasant hunting trip with her father in South Dakota. “My parents are stuck in an awful position.”

    As for the coming holidays, Mary Cheney said that her parents will come to her and Ms. Poe’s Northern Virginia home for Thanksgiving and that she assumed her older sister would be in Wyoming.

    At Christmas, the whole Cheney clan will head to the Jackson Hole area in Wyoming, where
    Liz Cheney now lives. But Mary Cheney said of her sister, “I will not be seeing her.”

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/17/within-cheney-family-a-dispute-over-gay-marriage/?_r=1&

    Like most people who support gay marriage they think it’s okay to try and force everyone to agree with them. The fact that your sister loves you and accepts your relationship as your individual right, does not mean that she has to agree with the legal definition of marriage should be attached to your relationship. She on the one hand is not disowning you over the issue-You are the one being the bitch in this situation.

  36. Angry Pro-Abortion Student Trashes Pro-Life Display, Then Helps Put It Back Up

    by Lauren Enriquez | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 11/17/13 8:23 PM

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    A student who was offended by a graphic pro-life display at Ohio State University knocked down signs and claimed that her college campus was an inappropriate venue for the display. But the savvy pro-lifer behind the camera kept his cool, and by the end of their conversation, the hostile student helps to pick up the signs that she had knocked over just minutes earlier.

    The display, set up by an organization called Created Equal, showed images of aborted children. The young woman who was offended by the message stated, “What you guys are doing is wrong.”

    The pro-lifer behind the camera responded, “What’s wrong?” to which the girl responded that students should be able to “feel safe to learn about things” on their campus, but the pro-lifer was infringing on her right to “learn about things” by “f**cking up everybody’s day.”

    The pro-lifer asked her why students should be allowed to learn about other things besides abortion, to which she responded that his display was making women feel worse about” a difficult decision.

    CLICK LIKE IF YOU’RE PRO-LIFE!

    She went on to claim that the children on the signs were not human, but instead were “clumps of cells,” and “just zygotes.” Without missing a beat, though, the pro-lifer responded that he himself was a clump of cells, and so was she! Taken aback by his logic, the girl argues that the pro-lifer can have his own opinions but he “doesn’t need to come here and make people feel bad about themselves.” The pro-lifer points out the obvious though: If he’s entitled to his own opinion, why did she knock down all of his signs? Realizing his point, she helps to pick up the signs.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2013/11/17/angry-pro-abortion-student-trashes-pro-life-display-then-helps-put-it-back-up/

    I think the girl child just learned something very valuable at this venue-you can’t just say you have a right to your opinions -you actually have to allow people to voice them. opinions!!! 🙂

    • That would be their opinions 🙂 By the way you should go to the link and listen to the video

    • The pro-aborts never have good arguments, do they? Amazing that they can’t find killing a reasonable thing. /sarc

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Kathy

        I think Mathius has offered a “good argument” here on several occasions.

        I know you disagree with his view but he has presented a solid argument based on the issues of biology and function.

        • Yep – must have missed that.

        • And yet Matt only believes his biology and function arguments holds up until 5 weeks of pregnancy, most people aren’t even sure they are pregnant at 5 weeks of pregnancy-after that his argument is based on a woman has the right to dispose of a living human being because the baby had the misfortune of being formed within her womb.

          • V.H.,

            And yet Matt only believes his biology and function arguments holds up until 5 weeks of pregnancy

            Mathius thinks his argument (probably) holds up a lot longer. Probably well into the teenage years. Possibly until the offspring has graduated from a 4-year college, landed a real job, and moved out of his parents’ house.

            But he isn’t willing to personally opine any further than 5 weeks. He personally would rather build in substantial margins of error, just in case he’s wrong. He prefers to err on the side of extreme caution.

            most people aren’t even sure they are pregnant at 5 weeks of pregnancy

            That has no baring on my logic. If you find out too late, that doesn’t change anything.

            “Oops” is not a good reason to kill a sentient being. Now, if you catch the baby fetus before the 5-week point, then terminating it carries (in my opinion) negligible moral ramifications (especially as compared to the right of a woman for autonomy over her uterus). Miss the window, however, and, well, murder is murder. The only thing I can’t be certain of in all this is where, exactly, that line should be drawn.

            Thus I draw the line, personally, at the most conservative point I plausibly can.

            HOWEVER, my opinion is just that: opinion. It, therefore, should not be used to compel the actions of others by law.

            -after that his argument is based on a woman has the right to dispose of a living human being because the baby had the misfortune of being formed within her womb.

            This is wrong. That is decidedly NOT his opinion.

            After that point [the 5-week window] his opinion is that he has no moral standing to foist in OPINION on others despite his opinion that it is morally wrong.

            Further, and I know this is a tricky concept, Mathius never thinks that a person has the “right” to kill another person. What he believes is that, until a certain point (which he, again, personally draws at 5-weeks), a FETUS is not a human being for morality purposes. It is nothing more than a clump of cells which may be excised at will, like a hairy mole or an appendix. In other words, he believe that you have the right to terminate UNTIL the fetus develops its “humanity” such that it has “human rights.”

            You can “kill it” because it is not a person. Once it’s a person, you can no longer kill it. What he doesn’t know with certainty is where, exactly, that line is. So he draws it on the extremely safe side because he values human life to a very high degree. However, due to this uncertainty, he does not believe he has the right to compel others to yield to his opinion.

            -after that his argument is based on a woman has the right to dispose of a living human being because the baby had the misfortune of being formed within her womb.

            Just to be redundantly clear:
            After that point [the 5-week window] his personal opinion is that an abortion is too risky to perform as the risk that the fetus has human rights has become too high. By the time we hit late term or “partial birth,” it is my personal opinion that an abortion is tantamount to murder.

            This is especially true when you consider that there is no medical need for the termination during late term. That is, removal of the fetus can be achieved without its death. The woman’s right to autonomy over her body extend only to eviction of unwanted foreign objects, not to the termination of those objects. It is the conflict which may justify that termination (that is, her self-determination right “trumps” the “right to life” of the fetus), but no such conflict exists here. She can evict and the fetus baby can live. As such, any alternative course of action needlessly terminates a human being and is, therefore, murder. For this reason, I can comfortably support bans on late terms abortions and consider the practice to be murder.

            But before that point (between, say, 5-weeks to 6-months), it’s unclear. I personally wouldn’t risk it, and I don’t think others should either. But that is just an opinion and no basis for legislation. I support efforts to encourage adoption over termination. I support efforts at education to avoid pregnancies in the first place. I I support the distribution of free or heavily subsidized contraceptive (male and female). But I cannot in good conscience say that my opinion should be the rule of law when the answer is so unclear.

            Hope this clarifies things for you.

            • Hmmm-I feel like doing this first 🙂 🙂 -I am happy to see that we have reached some major areas of agreement. Now I just think we need to discuss this issue of “Opinion” Just to start -Any law based on abortion being legal is going to be based on opinion-Why do you believe your opinion is worth less than theirs?

              The whole argument of a living human being having to reach some level of development to earn their personhood or humanity is based on an opinion. Then if one accepts this opinion one can build up parameters of when a baby in the womb or an already born human being can earn or lose their humanity-but it is, as you point out, a matter of guess work-or an opinion.

              • I am happy to see that we have reached some major areas of agreement

                We always agreed on certain points. You just didn’t correctly/completely understand my views.

                Not you, specifically, but people’s brains in general are designed as pattern recognition engines with a strong us-verse-them bias. The fact that I’m on “the other side” of this debate from you makes me a “them.” Therefore your brain automatically biases your interpretations of my views into a simplistic mold. We all do this (though I have always aggressively tried to fight this tendency in myself, I don’t don’t always win). I’m just glad to see I’m making myself clearer to you. I have felt, up until this point, that you have been arguing with a strawman, so maybe we can now make some real progress.

                Why do you believe your opinion is worth less than theirs?

                Because it’s not my body and not my choice to make.

                I have opinions on how people should handle their finances as well. Odds are good that I’m better equipped to make a “correct” decision there as well. But does that mean my opinions (even if better) should trump theirs?

                The whole argument of a living human being having to reach some level of development to earn their personhood or humanity is based on an opinion.

                Yes.

                Yes it is.

                It is highly logical to me, but I can certainly see why others would disagree.

                Perhaps tangential, but can you tell me: when a person is completely brain-dead, can you morally “pull the plug”? For purposes of this question, let’s treat “brain-dead” as an absolute condition.

                Then if one accepts this opinion one can build up parameters of when a baby in the womb or an already born human being can earn or lose their humanity-but it is, as you point out, a matter of guess work-or an opinion.

                Exactly. Although, I’d be very careful about talk of “losing their humanity”.. that way madness lies. I intentionally set the bar at an extreme low so that there is no discussion or consideration of “well mental retardation means he’s not human so we can kill him” nonsense – I’ll have none of that BS. I also don’t want people to infer that my opinions might support this kind of absurd conclusion. So let’s leave “lose their humanity” out of the discussion, shall we?

                Anyway, as I’ve pointed out before, my guesswork – or opinion – should not trump the guesswork and opinions of others.

              • Perhaps you are not understanding my point-We as a population determine our laws, at least in theory. So the people’s opinions determine our laws. So one persons opinion doesn’t carry more weight than anyone else’s-of course since we are so party oriented the cause is supported more than the parameters of those causes. ‘Which Is why it is so important for people to limit those laws according to their personal beliefs when it comes to something like abortion. The main reason I believe this is that although I agree with the basic freedom argument, which you are using, for many things. I do not believe it covers abortion when at some point you move into actual murder of children by anyone’s definition. I simply find it hard to understand an almost 5 month parameter from when you consider abortion okay and when it moves into murdering a child. My argument is that life begins at conception this has a very scientific basis and a line which can be drawn of when it occurs that can’t be argued against by more than a week at most.

                As far as pulling the plug on a person who is unable to live without machines breathing for them-I have no problem with this as long as the family or the person involved has previously agreed to it-But I think there is a difference between someone who has lived their lives and are no longer capable of surviving without a machine to breathe for them and a baby who is at the beginning of life. With one the person is simply dying in a normal or natural way in the other you are denying them the time to reach the ability to survive on their own-or at least as able as any baby ever is capable.

                I do find it strange almost that you are so concerned about how we define someone losing their right to humanity but so willing to accept someone else’s opinion of when a little innocent child earns that right, a right that I believe comes simply because they are a living human being, a being that should be protected by other living human being simply because.

                It’s late and I’m tired so I truly hope this all makes sense-even if you don’t agree with me.

                I’d also like to ask you a question, simply because you are more on the left side of issues than the right. I hesitate because I really don’t want to start a new discussion of who does and does not have a right to talk Or who’s too rude, etc, etc, But here goes anyway. Do you think Todd is justified in his condemnation of our posts ? Are we too hard on progressives or irritate you to the point that you do not want to post? I’m not meaning to put you on the spot-so don’t answer if you don’t want too. 🙂

  37. Just A Citizen says:

    ACCOUNTABILITY DAY

    From last week:

    PREDICTIONS

    The Packers are done, won’t make the playoffs. THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD STILL.

    The Saints lose out to the Panthers. By year end the Panthers will be a top the rankings but will have to travel to Seattle. THIS ONE IS IN TROUBLE AS I EXPECTED SF TO BEAT THE SAINTS. AND GIVEN THE WEEKEND RESULTS CAROLINA MIGHT BE IN TROUBLE TONIGHT.

    The Seahawks may just limp into the NFC west title thanks to the Panthers. But then if they do and they continue with their top record, they will have to play the 49r’s a third time as I expect the 49rs to get the wild card. NO CHANGE HERE YET, EXCEPT I THOUGHT SF WOULD STILL HAVE ONLY TWO LOSSES BY TODAY.

    Broncos, the pundits favorite team will be lucky to make the playoffs cause they are going to get beat THREE more times. Twice by KC and once by New England. LOOKS LIKE THAT ONE IS SHOT TO PIECES.

    Alabama plays for another National Title against…………………….. Florida State. That is what the east coast media and coaches want. They will get what they want. STILL ON TARGET, EXCEPT THE OHIO STATE BAND WAGON IS NOW BEATING THE DRUMS LOUDLY. I DID GET TO WATCH OK STATE AND BAYLOR THIS WEEKEND. THEY ARE NOT UP TO ALABAMA OR FL STATE CALIBER.

    Oh and OREGON, that team who was supposed to be in the BCS hunt probably won’t even get to play in the PAC 12 title game. Their only chance is a crummy USC team beating Standford. Not going to happen. WHAT IS THAT OLD SAYING? NEVER SAY NEVER. OREGON IS NOW IN CONTROL OF ITS OWN DESTINY AND COULD BE IN THE ROSE BOWL COME JANUARY.

    And Anita my dear, the Lions will make the playoffs, ONLY because Rogers will not get back to full form in time to save the Packers. IN JEOPARDY NOW. I FIGURED THE LIONS TO LOSE THREE MORE BUT NOT TO PITT.

    One more…..the NY GIANTS win the NFC east with a losing record, or .500 at best. STILL ALIVE…….ALTHOUGH THE EAGLES ARE SUDDENLY LOOKING MUCH BETTER.

  38. gmanfortruth says:

    @VH, I have not found one thing that states Obama has the authority to change laws. IMHO, he is acting unconstitutionally. What does this possibly prove? That the Dems and Repubs are on the SAME side. You should think about this when you get ready to cast your next vote in the Federal elections.

    @Charlie, How was your trip into Pa. ?

    @JAC, ” IN JEOPARDY NOW. I FIGURED THE LIONS TO LOSE THREE MORE BUT NOT TO PITT.” Strike One my friend 🙂 I didn’t think Miami would win either, but they did. How about them BILLS whooping the JETS, I’m NOT a Jets fan at all. PEACE!

    • PA was fine, but I started off bad … fell down our porch steps at the house in NJ and landed on my right knee (torture) … the arthritis is killing me 2 days later … the book launch was wonderful, but Gettsyburg was abbreviated because I’m a half cripple. It blows getting old, my friend … absolutely blows. 40+ years of weights, 10 years of football, etc., … arthritis is torture. Doubt I’ll walk without pain for another month now. And yes, how ’bout those Buffalo Bills! Finally! Peace it is. 🙂

  39. Just continues to PmeO! People need to pay for this. How about this – seems nothing was done to anyone that had a hand in targeting conservatives by the IRS so it must be OK now; how about every single O voter be targeted next. You voted twice? Twice the pain. Or how about just a fine for sheer stupidity? How much has this adm. increased the debt? Pay up obots! Seems fair to me.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/obamacare-so-what-could-go-wrong-next-99957.html?hp=t1

    • And no tax for those who voted for the genius who lied us into one war and ran both wars (he started) on a credit card? Now, Kathy, aren’t you being a bit one-sided?

      • So are you saying that Bush had the intel reports faked? Because the info was in those reports. That our congress and many other countries read and believed and acted on. Otherwise, what other lie did he supposedly tell?

        Not one-sided at all. It would be for the greater good for idiot o supporters to pay up – you love the greater good, right?

        • Hmmm, I think intel reports (like any reports) can be fudged to show whatever you want to see (i.e., global warming–those of you who refuse to see it :)) … Our congress duped? Or was it willingly duped? Either way, why would that surprise you? Other countries … you mean our lackies? WMD seems like a good place to start searching for that lie.

          I’m all for everyone paying 50% of their income in taxes but ONLY when incomes are capped at “X” amount of dollars … so, yeah, billionaires can wouldn’t be able to become gazillionaires … 🙂

  40. An extension of my post the other day re 26 year olds being included on their parents’ insurance as being a postive. More of O’s amerika:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/11/18/parents-serving-as-emergency-support-for-adult-kids/tab/comments/

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