More Thoughts Part Trey

To speed up the conversations and ask more questions. From BL : How many people did that sort of thing a hundred [plus] years ago? Why so frequent in modern time by comparison? Why are they so similar? Why would someone want to go shoot up a bunch of innocent people?ย  Many good questions because of the recent Colorado school shooting.ย  maybe SUFA can trim down the causes to one or two that can stand up to any debate ๐Ÿ™‚



  1. gmanfortruth says:

    Merry Christmas Everyone ๐Ÿ™‚ And Happy every other religious holiday too!

  2. gmanfortruth says:

    Yes Mathius, Your being over sensitive. ๐Ÿ™‚

  3. gmanfortruth says:

    A federal judge has ruled that the National Security Agency’s collection of phone records violates the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment. The judge immediately stayed the ruling pending appeal.

    In simple terms, the Judge know’s it’s UnConstitutional, but they can do it anyway because they are allowed an appeal. I bet there’s lots of drug dealers that would like this kind of decision ๐Ÿ™„

  4. gmanfortruth says:

    As for your questions BL, I have a few thoughts. I think there is a chemical mixture screwing up many peoples minds. The mixture involves Vaccinations, fluoride in water, fake sweeteners and GMO foods that don’t provide the needed nutrients to combat the other issues. I’ll start there and see where this takes me ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Just to throw a monkey wrench in your theory.

      Portland has not put fluoride in its water. It is a very contentious issue here.

      Yet there is no shortage of the hard left leaning loonitics either. And these people tend to be very ORGANIC so none of the bad fake sweeteners and GMO is akin to screaming Praise God during the Gay Pride Parade.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I don’t see Fluoride and vaccinations to be political per say. I d think it’s part of the issue, not the whole issue. Why are kids going to school to KILL? That’s the 1 Mil question ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Because they live like caged up rats???

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Have any of them lived like that? Or is it mental illness as a result of brain damage?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Actually, I saw a book at Barnes and Noble today written by a couple of Psychologists that dives into “violence among our teenage GIRLS”. It is escalating and they try to figure out why. They propose the reasons may be linked to teenage violence in general.

              I did not get a chance to read it and did not purchase it. But it did jump out at me given the topic. I thought maybe it was just my old fashioned standards that have led me to think young women are crasser, more vulgar and more violent than anything I have seen before.

              As for the wingnuts I am not sure it isn’t simple math. X % are prone to violent acts. Population goes up 50% then you get X% + X% of 50%.

              I saw someone put up numbers the other day showing how RARE an event it is for Kids to be harmed in Schools. You take ALL the school kids in the country going back say 50 years and then divide that into the number of kids harmed by nuts in schools over the same time frame. Better chance of being hit by lightning.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                It is a very small number, probably equal to one’s chances of being killed by a terrorist. It’s more likely that one of us will be shot by a police officer than the other two combined. But, just speaking of youth violence, it’s a problem, more so than in our younger days. It’s a real big problem in the Black community, but no one seems to want to address that issue.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          Folks….I’m working on a statistical study of shootings on school property. The data will include school type, elementery, middle, high school, college, parochial. By decade, by type of shooting, accidental, ie stage prop, starters pistol, teacher on teacher, parent on teacher, teacher on student, student on teacher, jilted spouse or lover on teacher, random massacre, hostage for ransom/kidnapping, military on students ie Kent State, police on reported B/E, suicide, gang and finally Indian attack. Ranked by State as admitted to the union. With the exception of 1900-1909 where there was a significant spike that was on par with the past couple decades of shootings on school grounds. Is it any worse statistically for the population on whole for the area of the occurrance? I doubt it but need to prove it. However the past several decades have seen a 20-25 % increase each period. The data shows this decade so far (3) years have had a 23 % increase over the worst decade to date 2000-2009. Population has to be factored. California and New York are the hands down O/A winners with a caveat though. California is going up and NY has dropped to only 2 events in the past 4 decades. Have to pull in economic data for given areas. There is no concise, one size fits all answer. As I pull the analysis together, I’ll post it for comments. I did go to school in both NY and CA.
          I would have assumed by the violence and tension in the 60’s that more violence didn’t spill over onto school grounds. Maybe the really disfunctional folks took their aggression out on the general population, ie Manson-Tate/La Bianca LA murders, Juan Corona- CA Migrant workers, Zodiac murders in SF, Black Muslim Initiation Rites- SF shootings of “White” innocents at bus stops. Untold amount of hitch hikers murdered along Rte 1 CA. Race riots in Newark, Detroit and LA to name a few.
          The social changes that have occurred over the past 4 decades are innumerable and have to be accounted for. Human psychology can not possibly have begun to adapt to the change, like our physiology has not adapted to the more sedentary lifestyle of today.

          • I look forward to your findings. I’m gonna bet that lots of shootings on school property are not being reported by the MSM. They seem to ignore violence by blacks in some of our worst cities. I know of at least two in Youngstown that never made the MSM news this year alone. I wonder how many others have been covered up or simply unreported? If I can help in the research, point me in a direction that will help you finish the study. If you would like, we can make it an article of it’s own! Let me know!

  5. gmanfortruth says:
  6. gmanfortruth says:

    One day, maybe in Mathius’s lifetime (he’s worried about his youthfulness) will the truth come out and the world will know once and for all what a bunch of LYING deceitful SOB’s we have running this country, today, before and beyond.

  7. Just A Citizen says:
  8. With respect to the question of why all the mass murder events know as opposed to a century ago. I could name many reasons none of them backed by science.

    1) As a people we have lost much of our moral compass. In my lifetime we have gone from a puritanical upbringing of children to virtually anything goes. Church was big part of youth in the ’50s. Games were wholesome, monopoly, cards, etc. Violence was mostly cowboys and Indians or good guy against bad with good prevailing. Musical entertainment contained no 4 letter words, bare skin, and few suggestive movements until Elvis who was tame by today’s standards. The movies the kids see show graphic nonstop violence and blood as do the games they play. Compare this to Bugs Bunny and Road Runner. They view or hear violence daily in this culture. I any society there are outliers, people far from the norm who cannot separate fact from fiction. The mass murder spree we see is conducted by a very limited number of individuals.

    2) Our medical profession is increasingly feeding psychiatric drugs to our young. These drugs include SSRI’s such as Zoloft, Prozac, … and anti-psychotics such as Zyprexa, Abilify…. These drugs are powerful and alter the mind and the mood. They also have significant side effects often requiring additional medication to control them. They can also cause significant and permanent brain damage when taken for long periods. Their effectiveness is marginal and questionable. For mild cases they may in fact work but it is uncertain if a placebo would work as well provided the patient thought he/she was getting the real drug. It is well known that weaning a patient off these drugs can be problematic and can result in suicidal or homicidal behavior. When several psych drugs are taken together (not uncommon) the result is not necessarily known. I can testify to the fact the combination of Zyprexa and Zoloft can lead to Parkinsonism. In my wife’s case the diagnosis went from Parkinsonism to Lou Gerhig’s, to Multiple System Atrophy. The later is between the two formers but has the same eventual result. It took a severe fall with head trauma resulting in a 2 week coma to identify the problem. Removal from the drugs resulted in a near miracle. However, the brain damage was done not by the fall but by the drugs. If you have a child do not let them take these drugs.

    3) Psych problems can be the result of a poor diet lacking in some key electrolytes and other nutrients that stimulate GABA and seretonin production. So some of the problem may be nutritional.

    4) It would be interesting to know if these shootings are seasonal. Mood Effective Disorders frequently are the worst near the winter solstice.

    5) Lack of physical exercise. Think back to the ’50s or ’60s. We did not have 24/7 TV and video games. For entertainment we went outside and played pickup baseball or something else. Teenagers are always moody. They need an outlet that is wholesome, physical or educational. Teens do not know what hobbies are anymore. Our work laws keep them children until they are 18. I went full time during the summer on a construction crew at the age of 13. Most farm kids worked as well all summer. There is a sense of worth and accomplishment that is missing in today’s teens because they are prevented from constructive involvement in commerce and business. We had a couple of mechanical engineering interns for the last 2 years at work. I knew more about practical engineering (machining, project construction, etc.) out of high school then they did after 2 years in college.

    6) Too much PC. This last kid could not take failure. Is this because he was never allowed to fail?

    Opinions welcome.

    • I think your theories and/or assessment is very well thought out. I myself have contemplated same/similar ideas in hopes of explaining the incidents that AREN’T induced…as a means of discerning the difference.

      Someone[s] or something is provoking these people to do it. It is part of something much larger and outside the box than most are ready for. There is a lot I have yet to figure out, but know that I am right on top of it.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      I can’t argue with any of your points, even if they aren’t scientifically proven. I’m much happier since our food is 99% organic. We actually eat less food during mealtime because it’s are far more nutritional.

      Kids stay indoors too much! We all went out and played. I remember being outside for hours sled riding in the winter. I still spend quite a lot of time outdoors, but kids today lack that motivation. Vitamin D loss is just starting to be recognized as an issue in this part of the country. Another piece of the puzzle?

      Speaking of vitamins and minerals, I sometimes feel that taking supplements on a daily basis isn’t working well. I changed that to twice a week and on different days. The body tends to get immune to regular input and will stop taking it in even if it’s needed. Remember, supplements are NOT normal. The benefits I get is more awareness, less hungry, more motivation and energy, I sleep better and the sex life is great ๐Ÿ™‚

      Vaccinations- I don’t take them and haven’t since 1988 (I did take the Anthrax one but no flu shots after 1988). After the Anthrax shots (along with prolonged consumption of P-Tabs) many people got very ill (Gulf War Illness). I’m at the “not so bad” side of that spectrum. It was those events that got me looking into the vaccination issues. That’s still an open subject as well.

      Video games? Are they desensitizing kids? Brainwashing them? Feeding them subliminal ideas that only a certain group will be effected by? What role does the CIA have in these games? There very well be something here, I’m just not sure. This is BL’s area of expertise ๐Ÿ™‚

  9. The most important part is 1:23

  10. gmanfortruth says:

    Obamacare, via Larry the Cable Guy ๐Ÿ™‚

    I figured out the new health care law. The bronze plan is what your fingers gonna look like after you have to give yerself a prostate exam!

    The gold plan is hocking yer wedding ring to pay the deductible and silver is what color yer hair will be when ya finally sign up!


  11. Just A Citizen says:

    John Boehner yesterday confessed to the world that his “troubles” in the House this past couple of the years were because “The Devil Made Me Do It”.

    Well not the Devil as much as the Tea Party or some not defined bunch referenced as the Money Making Activist Groups…………except of course for the not so veiled reference to Ted Cruz over the last budget “shut down” NOT FIGHT.

    Boehner explained that he had been FORCED into these corners by these unyielding and irresponsible FEW.

    So Boehner and now even the media admit that the “TEA PARTY” only has about 26 seats in the HOUSE. Yet somehow, this SUPER POWERFUL GROUP of 26 FORCED HIM INTO A CORNER.

    And it was Ted Cruz who obviously got the HOUSE all worked up and MADE THEM VOTE THE WAY THEY DID.

    So we have one of two possibilities.

    1. Boehner is the spineless weasel we all thought he was and this is just the latest example and of course deflection to avoid taking responsibility.

    2. Boehner is absolutely brilliant as a politician. Recognizing the Tea Party as a threat to the establishment 4 years ago, he orchestrated a grid lock and bungling Republican House JUST SO he could use it to DESTROY the TEA PARTY, eventually.

    I suppose there is a third possibility. ALL OF THE ABOVE, with number two not being planned but just used when the opportunity finally arose.

    Know how I know that the R’s screwed the pooch on the budget deal??

    Just watch MSNBC and other left leaning outlets to see the “muted” response and the weak attempt to make it look like the Dems actually gave up something or that they “compromised”

    Add to this that the DEAL calls for REDUCING Veteran Retirement benefits. BREAKING the promises made by BOTH Congress and President Obamaroma.

    As one lady on Fox said last night. The SAVINGS from reducing the Vet Retirement Benefits WILL NOT even equal the INTEREST on the NEW SPENDING that is allowed by the Budget Deal.

    By the way folks, the Republicans are full of the you know what when they try to wrap Social Security into the BUDGET, DEFICIT, and DEBT arguments.

    Yes, SS should be eliminated, but it won’t be. So it needs to be FIXED in a way that it doesn’t keep needing fixing. No matter how long a period the Can Kicking creates. BUT, this can be handled as a “separate” issue.

    It does not need to be tied to the overall DEFICIT or DEBT reduction measures which are BUDGET related.

    This is a game. One created by the “unified budget” illusion. Use Soc Sec and Medicare to show “savings” then spend that on something else.

    One footnote of hope. If only 26 Tea Party House Reps could cause all that much of a problem, just think what we could accomplish if we doubled that to 52. Bwahahahaha

    • gmanfortruth says:

      The Budget Deal = Status Quo. Now they can just LIE and blow smoke up everybodies ass so that they will believe the whole thing is the Tea Party folks fault ๐Ÿ™„ This is how the government has been working for decades, and how it will continue working for decades moving forward. At least some credit is given for those who think it can be fixed via voting etc. That’s much better than the Sheeple who have not a clue what is going on outside of their little tunnel world. So, I extend some credit for trying to fix things under current means. ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

  12. Just A Citizen says:

    OK, lets see if anyone can make the Atlas Shrugged connection to this story. Actually, there is more than one but lets see what ya’ll come up with.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      I’m not an Atlas Shrugged person so to speak, but the tunnel idea and expense is not very bright to me. One major quake and poof, big problems and lots of death. We aren’t made to be moles, we a people, let’s stay above ground for the most part ๐Ÿ™‚

  13. gmanfortruth says:

    There’s a good video from Australia in this link that talks about Monsato and GMO foods. If you want to know why I raise my own meat and veggies, this is a good start. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

  14. @ JAC…we are about to elect two more Cruz types down here.

    @ Mathius…………rethinking my death panel statements. I am not so sure now, in light of what they are doing to the prescription medicines in Medicare and the VA now. From what I am reading in the ACA, (aka: Obamacare)…..the restrictions on the elderly are more restrictive than I have seen from any insurance company…..up to and including….REFUSING SOME FORMS OF HEALTH CARE…..aka: preexisting conditions.

  15. Isn’t it amazing that the military is once again asked to “pony up” with pension reductions and retirement pay and pick up health care costs……..wonder if the people that are trying to pass this law have “ponied up” a like amount?

    • And, it is NOT TRUE that they are only going to apply this to new pensions and retirement. IT IS NOT TRUE. They will cut those already on retirement. How do I know?………..Well, I have already been warned by the military that it will be retroactive.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Good morning my Texican friend.

        And the Fed Employees just got hit with an increase in their required contribution to retirement. Rumors are running rampant that a CUT in Retirement benefits is imminent. Including EXISTING Retirees.

        We are all so screwed.

        Now for the important matter at hand Time to come up with the wagers on the Alamo Bowl.

        In order to avoid the fiasco of last year I suggest we limit the wage to things that do not require refrigeration.

        Perhaps DINNER for two at the location of the winner??

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Good Day Colonel ๐Ÿ™‚

        This is the kind of thing that these bums do that piss me off. While it has no direct effect on me, the Vets and elderly should be off limits when it comes to budget cuts. There are plenty of more reasonable things to cut, like the entire EPA ๐Ÿ™‚

        There is ONE positive thing from all of this, our government is making enemies of our military. That could turn out to be very stupid on their part. Time will tell. I can say that vets in these parts absolutely HATE Obama and the Progressives. No tears would be shed should a Civil War break out between the two groups and the Progressives are slaughtered. There is more and more angry talk now a days, scary talk, for sure.

        I just got my .308 dies! Starting to reload a few hundred of them after deer hunting is closed for the year. You might like it here today, 25 degrees and a fresh foot of snow to stomp through ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Isn’t it amazing that every single democrat voted for this in the Senate? Accidentally of course after NOT reading the bill.

  16. gmanfortruth says:

    Here’s a good question. If the information that Snowden has released is found to implicate the Government in Constitutional violations, is he really a criminal who broke the law? Or is he just blowing the whistle on the real criminals?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      He would still be a “criminal” AND he could still be a “whistle blower”.

      Not all the information is the same. However, his “status” as a “whistleblower” would be harmed by the fact he made no effort to disclose improper behavior in proper channels.

      His stock as “Hero” will go up, however. Whether declared a criminal or not.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Here’s the problem with the criminal part that I have. Snowden only released what many of us have been saying for years, that the Government is spying on all of us, using all the methods that have been exposed. This is an example of a Conspiracy Theory becoming a Conspiracy, and guys like me proven RIGHT again about the governments corruption. But I’m still a Conspiracy Theorist, despite what I can tell folks and no matter how many times I’m proven right. Most folks can’t handle a truth that fails their normalcy ideas. Bummer, I have lots of things that I believe are true, they just haven’t been totally proven YET ๐Ÿ™‚

  17. Just A Citizen says:

    I think this is a violation of the Hatch Act. Absolutely unbelievable. Not the tapestry themselves. That was creepy enough. I am talking about them being used as a “fundraising tool” and being displayed in an Embassy. That is a Govt building operated by Govt employees.

    This would be a FIREABLE offense in a Federal Building in the USA. At least it used to be.

  18. Just A Citizen says:

    Prediction FAIL……. My attempt at accountability.

    1. Lions…………… I’m feeling your pain Anita. Da Bears could still blow it but they have the easier remaining schedule. Even with the Packers on the card. And thanks to the Cowboys, the Packers are still alive and Rogers may be back.

    2. Obama bowing to Castro. I never saw the “Selfie” picture of the One with Cameron and that foxy lady PM coming. It took only 4 hours to completely bury the Castro handshake deep in the bin of History. As one reporter has noted, the “selfie” may have saved Mr. O from a MAJOR political embarrassment.

    3. Seahawks are on track to win better than I thought. Although the Cardinals and Rams are both good enough to win in Seattle and have done well against the Hawks in the past. Now for some trepidation on my part regarding my Seahawks. Far to many accolades and presumptuous comments by the media on their “DESTINED RETURN TO NY”. When the praise gets to high the Seahawks have a habit of falling in their beaks, so to speak. The 49rs are surging on both sides of the ball. The Hawks still have the D but the offense is starting to stumble again. The Seahawks need Percy back. They have no deep threat or game breaker like him.

    4. Panthers winning the division. My Carolina Panthers prediction is still alive, although not due to the outcomes I thought would happen. It is a long shot but still alive. Carolina BEATS the Saints this coming weekend. Then it comes down to the last game.

    • I’m taking Kathy’s saying sorta…I quit NFL football! ๐Ÿ‘ฟ

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Things change fast Anita, as a Dolphins fan I would never have thought they’d be 8-6 and can make the playoffs possibly. The season will go down to the last weekend, which is great!

      • I think our BIG win was Sunday. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if I’m wrong.

  19. gmanfortruth says:
  20. gmanfortruth says:

    The background of the last school shooter, very in depth.

  21. Just A Citizen says:

    So the Republicans signed onto a Budget deal that ELIMINATES 45 Billion in SPENDING CUTS THIS YEAR and replaces them with 23 billion in cuts OVER THE NEXT DECADE.

    AFTER increasing spending THIS YEAR AND NEXT.

    Ah yes, the party of AUSTERITY and BALANCED BUDGETS. Sure glad that old John and Mitch are leading the charge against our DEBT fueled collapse. Guess we Tea Party types were wrong and stupid after all. Obviously DEFICITS DO NOT MATTER.

    Otherwise why would our benevolent leaders be so willing to sign onto such a thing???

    Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick tock…………..

    • Just think how great SUFA would be if we could apply the same process!

      Although it would get kind of boring with just us Liberals remaining…

      PS – I’m pretty sure Peter and Flag would banned after their first comments. They just can’t help themselves…

      • It’s likely they would be banned, but only after embarrassing the “so called” scientists with reality. That’s usually how the Left Wing groups work. Just ask JAC about HuffPo,?

  22. @ JAC…..your 10th ranked Oregon guys are invading the lowly non ranked Texas boys in the Alamo bowl and you think we should bet? No points? Straight up? You would take advantage like this? Have you no shame? After all, your boys had a rousing rough and tumble snow ball fight that made national news……how could we ever compete with that?

    But, being of humble origins ( removing hat ::: using best diverted eyes:::keeping perfectly straight face ) reluctantly accepts bet. Dinner for two….. $50 value? Twenty five bucks a head down here will buy a whole steer to eat…but will $25 bucks a head buy crab up there?

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Up here? You kiddin me. It will get you some Horse Divers…………or maybe a fancy hamburger.

      OK, maybe it aint that bad but a good steak, which is hard to find here, would run about 30.00 with a salad or baked spud.

      Although if you wind up having to come here we could pick up Many Crabs for that price and just Fix R OWN.

      So I say it sounds like a bet if your willing.

      I am also agreeable to any other suggestions you might have.

      • Ok…..fair enough……I’m cool with 100 bucks ( and that is not lawyers from NJ/NY, although there is no difference between New Jersey/New York ***).

        If you win, you get the short deal because of your costs up there but $50 bucks a head here will get me a 16 oz T bone, with stuffed baked tater, salad, a huge piece O’ chocolate pie, followed by a brandy ice….with enough left over for a ceeegar…. However, I do not smoke, so a second brandy ice will fit the bill nicely.

        Now, in relation to Reno, how far do you live from there?

        *** clearly designed statement to get the Buckster riled up.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Reno….about ten hour drive. Not sure of the miles. Maybe a 1 to 2 hr flight.

          What are you thinking?

        • Now wait a second there my Texican Cowboy friend…there may not be a huge difference between parts of upstate NY (Mathius, I’m talking to you) and parts of NJ, but let’s not try to compare NJ with the city! Apples and oranges…

          Though if you’re talking a great steak dinner in the city (with drinks and all the trimmings) you would be talking around $100 a head. But man is it worth it! Just give a holler when you find yourself over in my neck of the woods!

          • Mathiusโ„ข says:

            Whoa whoa whoa! Hold it right there.

            I do NOT live in “upstate.” Just because I don’t live in one of the boroughs doesn’t mean I’m in Schenectady!

            • Hate to burst your bubble…but you’re upstate. Don’t worry about it though, it’s not like your “way upstate” otherwise known as Canada.

              By the way, the Colonel and JAC have succeeded in whetting my appetite for a good steak dinner in the city….how about it some time?

            • Mathius,, “upstate” NY is a very nice place, with very nice people. Why would you NOT want to be associated with them? I’m two counties down from the NY border, we have friends that hunt here from NY and they are great people. I can’t say the same about folks from NYC or Jersey though, Buck and Steven being the exception. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Just A Citizen says:


      P.S. These Oregonians are one tough lot. Not only did they get in a Nationally televised snow ball fight, they had to cancel classes at the University because the snow was Soooooooooo Deeeeeep.

      A whopping 8 inches of fluff and they called the game.

      • Well, by golly, down here in the Alamo Dome, they will be forced to play in an enclosed environment of 70 degrees.

        • Of course, we could crank up the heat to a more comfortable 110 degrees….make them Oregonians see what real weather is like.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            That would be grounds for attempted murder or at least “cruel and unusual punishment”.

            You already have the advantage cause it can’t rain inside the dome. Ducks out of water ya know.

  23. Now, a question for the lefties… was just reported that 12 Republicans are going to vote yes in the Senate one the bill on the budget…..the one that will cut the raise for the military and cut retirement benefits for all military…..

    How about a bill extending that same cut to ALL Federal employees, ALL social security recipients, and all Medicare/Medicaid recipients, and all federal union employee pensions…..including the one percent COLA reductions in the bill.

  24. Interesting expenditure ……the US government spends $400,000 to study the intelligence level of the Tea Party……only to find that they, the Tea Party, are more astute and more scientifically and fiscally………smarter.

  25. gmanfortruth says:
  26. For you GIs

    TAPS …The Last Post

    A few years ago, a friend visited the Netherlands American Cemetery and Memorial in the village of Margraten, about six miles from Maastricht. There lie buried 8,301 American soldiers killed in the battles to liberate Holland in the fall and winter of 1944-5. Sgt. Bill Dukeman, 101st Airborne Division, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, Second Battalion, Company C (of “Band of Brothers fame) is buried there. He was killed in the battle of “The Crossroads” in northern Holland.

    The Dutch hold an annual memorial concert every September at the above cemetery to remember and honor the Americans who died to free them in Operation Market Garden and subsequent efforts to eject the German army from Holland. Sgt. Dukeman, like many other fallen GIs, was “adopted” by a Dutch family. Dukeman’s family in the States was contacted and hosted in Holland, and his grave site decorated each year by his Dutch “family.” They keep his portrait in their home, displayed in a place of honor. Fathers pass this obligation down to their sons in Holland. This version of the original “taps” music is played by a 13 year old Dutch girl named Melissa Venema. The conductor of the orchestra is Andre Rieu from Holland .

    Many of you may never have heard taps played in its entirety . The original version of Taps was called Last Post, and was written by Daniel Butterfield in 1801. It was rather lengthy and formal, as you will hear in this clip, so in 1862 it was shortened to 24 notes and re-named Taps.
    Melissa Venema is playing it on a trumpet whereby the original was played on a bugle.

    Watch at this site, and go full screen.

  27. Great article on the real โ€˜War on Christmasโ€. I wonder if anyone here will learn anything from thisโ€ฆ

    • I really didn’t learn anything I didn’t already know, that Liberals don’t know the difference between charity and theft. See Todd, Jesus was teaching about man’s kind heart, and that he should use that kind heart to help the less fortunate. I have no problem with that and donate to worthy causes locally on a regular basis. The author is talking about theft, stealing from one person and giving to another. Whether less fortunate or just playing the system, it doesn’t matter to the thieves. Maybe your the one who should have learned something from the article, that would have saved me all this time teaching you the difference ๐Ÿ™‚

      • ” the difference between charity and theft. See Todd, Jesus was teaching about manโ€™s kind heart, and that he should use that kind heart to help the less fortunate. ”

        Yeah, you saw through it. The author sees government/force as an acceptable avenue of philanthropy, and uses it as a platform to bash conservative Christians and charge that they’re hypocrites.

        He does mention some interesting things, though. Much of what he referenced is examples of conservative Christians acting in defense of what they interpret as a ‘War on Christianity’. What I see is shifting social norms that are in conflict with those who have built a ‘Christian Nation’.

        I think it is important to approach it with the clear intent of having a goal of equality and a better balanced society, rather than a competitive approach that seeks to push back and fourth. …as in try to relieve the pressure as opposed to creating counter pressure.

        What is the win/win? Where is the balance?

        How do we subtract problems and add better practices to our society, instead of dividing and arguing about it? Will this allow us multiplicity in our capacity for greatness?

        • Just A Citizen says:

          There is no balance when you compromise with evil.

          • That is a most interesting statement.

            Can you please clarify? What exactly is compromise with evil?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Agreeing with any of its terms or conditions.

              It is a caution against being fooled by the notion that compromise is a goal unto itself.

              It is also a reality check, in that all people have differing views of absolute right and wrong.

              Telling them to love each other and just get along is NOT GOING TO cause them to love each other and just get along.

              You have to be able to use reason to undo the underlying belief system. And even then it is a long shot. Especially to those who run more on emotional reaction and less on thinking.

              • ” Agreeing with any of its terms or conditions.”

                What evil terms and conditions?

                ” It is a caution against being fooled by the notion that compromise is a goal unto itself. It is also a reality check, in that all people have differing views of absolute right and wrong. Telling them to love each other and just get along is NOT GOING TO cause them to love each other and just get along. ”

                Our conversations here are essentially a thought exercise. I try to ask questions and offer ideas, provoke thought and deeper understanding.

                I don’t see it from such dualistic perspective as perhaps you and many others do. I see a bunch of people fighting about who gets to push who around to get their way, instead of actually trying to solve the problem of getting along. Tolerance of others’ equal rights is more of a requirement/prerequisite.

                When I suggest “approach it with the clear intent of having a goal of equality and a better balanced society, rather than a competitive approach that seeks to push back and fourth” ,

                …I do so in the interest of not making it about a civil religious war, as there are a lot of people who are stuck on the dualistic, this/that category, offense/defense pattern of thinking…that is apparently not working.

                Little Christopher is bickering with the other children at the park, and won’t let them play in the sandbox. You explain to him that it is their sandbox too. He responds by claiming sole ownership and accusing you of hating him. Now what?

                …Time out? Tell the other children to go to another park because Christopher was there first, …even though there’s plenty of room in the sandbox? Hand one of them a stick and tell him to go hit little Christopher?

                What would Jesus do?

                ” You have to be able to use reason to undo the underlying belief system. And even then it is a long shot. Especially to those who run more on emotional reaction and less on thinking. ”

                People can believe whatever they want.

        • Progressives/Socialist/Communists (PSC’s) or whatever they’re called these days rely on force to achieve their goals. As JAC said, this is evil. I posted a video about a Hitler survivor, who explains what happened very well. Hitler was a LEFT wing Socialist, 100%. Just like Obamacare, their ideologies must rely on lies to get their way. Take Lying and force, add it up and it equals EVIL ๐Ÿ‘ฟ What is sad is that most Liberals can’t see this through their rose colored glasses.

          • ” Take Lying and force, add it up and it equals EVIL ”

            I very much agree with this statement.

            Applying it to politics, I will posit that it isn’t exclusive to a party or ideology, that it isn’t necessarily a conservative/liberal thing…but rather the nature of government force being the evil.

            What are you forcing? Does it really matter?

            If I were to stick a gun to your head and demand that you breathe, I would still be violating you by doing so. Would it matter if I lied about why you must breathe?

            • You got it, government force is evil, plain and simple. Now, if an elected govt just did what the Constitution originally intended, we would not be on this site talking about it ๐Ÿ™‚

              You would be violating me by putting a gun to my head, regardless of the reason. Govt force comes with many threats, loss of freedom, death, destruction of one’s name etc. They do now exactly what the Brits did that led to the Revolution. Can you see where they are leading us?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              FORCE is not evil.

              It is the use of force that can be evil or righteous.

              Its classification depends on how and why it is used.

              • I thought it was evident we were speaking in the context of GOVERNMENT force.

                …as in the government monopoly on the use of coercive force against nonviolent humans for sake of an edict of law.

              • Right JAC. Your force is righteous. Everyone else’s is evil…

      • Gman,
        I didn’t really expect you to learn anything… ๐Ÿ˜‰

        Just because you don’t like the government doesn’t mean it will magically go away. Your constant harping of “theft” stops any conversation from even getting started.

        We have a government that is supposed to help everyone, but it’s been hijacked by conservatives who only want to help those in the upper half. That’s a recipe for the disaster we are heading for…

        • You might want to look and see who is running the govt the last 5 years (Liberal’s, just a hint), then take a real good look at some facts. Then when you hijack Nurse Ratchet’s computer, you can say something intelligent ๐Ÿ˜†

    • Only conservatives are offended about the war on Christmas?

      I never knew there were two Jesus’.

      nothing to see here……

      • When you mix Jesus with politics, with a system that divides by it’s very nature, you get conflicting and competing Jesus’.

        …Welcome ladies and gentlemen, to the Alpha and Omega Arena’s annual Christmas, ..err.. um..’Holiday’ Heavyweight Championship.

        …in this corner wearing white, is the Son of Almighty God, Lord and savior; Conservative Jesuuuuuuuuus Chriiiiiist!

        …and in the other corner, wearing gold, is the King of Kings, the offspring of David, the Liberal Jesuuuuuus Morniiiiiiing Staaaaaaaar!

        • At least we know Jesus and Santa are white! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • These discussions about religious monuments and ideas influencing government prompted me to consider something ironic.

          When I walk past a religious monument, I am not bothered, but am mostly indifferent. From an individual/personal perspective, it’s live and let live, ..whatever. And I think most share that sentiment.

          But I find it rather interesting studying others who get wrapped up into it…which, arguably, kinda gets me wrapped up into it too.

          Here these people are competing and arguing about symbolic monuments concerning the Ten Commandments and courthouses.

          When I read them, I see it is about worshiping God first, and not worshiping graven images and false idols and such. I interpret that as saying to concern yourself with being at one with God, and not get wrapped up in all the nonsense of false idolatry.

          …which is essentially what people are doing.

          We humans sure are an odd bunch.

    • One of the more absurd pieces I have ever read. So great, the libs want us to follow all the teachings of Jesus but, a minor point I’m sure’ WE cannot mention his name in public schools or gatherings! Schizophrenic, no?

  28. Here is the true issue of the budget proposal that is going to sail right through the both houses as it pertains to the military.

    The COLA increases are to be cut beginning January 1, 2015 for all military, able bodied and infirm. 1% less for all under the age of 62. At age 62, then it returns to the regular COLA. The inference is that a military person whom retires after 20 years, normally gets another job, so, therefore, it is only fair to redistribute the income to those less deserving, and, yes, I said LESS DESERVING.

    Add this to the fact that Obamacare has reduced the amount of prescriptions available under the VA system by 1/3. And, they cherry picked the prescriptions. Now, veterans who were promised health care, must purchase prescriptions through the exchanges, through private insurance, or straight out of pocket.

    Add this to the fact that wounded Veterans are now paying a tax on their prosthetic devices.

    Add this to the fact that the full medical coverage that was promised to Veterans 20 years and greater has now been cut 25% and deductibles and co pays apply. Increases have averaged over 300%.

    Add this to the fact that Tricare for LIfe has been reduced 25% and fees have been added. Average cost increase 125%.

    You now hear the diatribe from Senators and Representatives that this was not the intent and that they will fix it AFTER the bill is passed………we all know what happens to these promises.

    So, the military rises again to the challenge and will provide what others will not.

    • The military isn’t rising, their getting screwed. These savings don’t even cover the spending increases in the bill. I wonder just how much more shit the people will take before they see things as I do, the feds are out of control and needs shut down completely. Then let’s start over by fixing the holes that caused this to occur. We can still have a Fed govt, without the power they have today, and they can still provide the SERVICE they were intended to serve.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      I am surprised they cut it off at 62, given that Soc Sec and Medicare kick in at 65…soon to be 67.

      Now wondering why this argument applies to the military but NOT to Govt employees who can retire at age 55 or Govt fire fighters who can retire after 20 years service.

      Guessing it won’t be long before this action is taken against the rest as well.

  29. For those who TRUST the Government to protect your rights, better think again:

  30. Great speech by Katie Worthman, an Austrian who saw the rise of Hitler first hand. Very telling video about then and now, maybe Todd could learn something ๐Ÿ™‚

    Inly kidding Todd, I doubt you would watch it anyway.

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    The ACA exchanges.

    Wow, it just gets better and better. Your new ObamaCare will not cover you when you travel outside your exchange market area. You can call on your ObamaPhone to complain but nobody will answer.

    • JAC, BUCK, wasn’t one of the arguments FOR the Feds to take over healthcare insurance based on “regulating interstate commerce”? If so, does that dog hunt yet?

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Under current SCOTUS LAW Congress has the authority under the Commerce Clause to regulate Health Insurance.

        While SCOTUS has fabricated the notion that this includes the Govt actually TAKING OVER Health Care, like Medicaid and Medicare, it should be limited to regulating “existing commerce”.

        SCOTUS, however, also ruled recently that the Govt could NOT use the Commerce Clause to FORCE citizens to purchase a particular product or service. That was UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

        Of course they then turned around and said it was legal to “TAX” people who don’t purchase said product or service.

        Thus goes the logic and reasoning of WIZARDS. They just make this stuff up when it suits them.

    • Found this in the nooks and crannies too…they will come after YOUR ESTATE for unpaid medical bills. Wonder how much they charge a dead guy for end of life treatment? Pretty expensive last days I bet!

  32. Thank you Texas….. Texas is stepping up to the plate for its veterans. If you are a legal Texas citizen and honorably discharged Veteran……there is a state run exchange that is being set up to make up the difference in the health insurance that is lost from the Feds on prescription coverage.

    To be eligible, you must be:

    1) A legal resident of Texas as defined in the statutes.
    2) A military veteran of 4 years or more. ****
    3) Honorably discharged.

    **** Less than four years will qualify with service related disability.

  33. Just A Citizen says:

    Sad times in the Republic.

    Yesterday I saw a story on an Elementary school removing its name of Nathan Bedford Forrest. All because the gutless wonders running the district have swallowed the garbage history taught by activist haters.

    Now today I see this regarding the War College and possible removal of Jackson and Lee’s portraits. After all……….they were “traitors” and the administrator knows of at least “ONE PERSON” who wants them removed.

    I wonder if Chief Josesph has been removed as well. After all, he was an “enemy of the State”.

    • Schools in Austria were made to put up pictures of Hitler and remove Crosses. Are we not seeing the similar type of BS coming from the Left?

      • Just A Citizen says:


        The Progressive training has had us putting pictures of every President on the walls of PUBLIC Schools since the early 1900’s. Crosses were removed a long time ago.

  34. Outstanding speech (in upstate NY, no less)

  35. Just A Citizen says:

    The HETEROPHOBES have a new pin cushion, dart board target, demon to revile.

    Now I am not exactly sure what it is in the article that is supposed to be lies and “vile”. So it makes me wonder if there are other quotes not mentioned in the article.

    • Yep, the Political Correctness Police and the Gaystopo will go bat shit crazy over this. Maybe if more people would just “say it like they believe it” these types will just go away. Personally, I happen to agree, the thought boning some guy in the ass makes me want to vomit. I do think it’s disgusting. But I really don’t care if people live that way, it’s their life. Just because I say this, doesn’t make me a gay hater, just means I’m not gay. ;wink:

  36. A list of States that use tax dollars to fund abortions:

    The following 17 states fund all or most medically necessary abortions. Of the following, 13 state fund abortion pursuant to a court order, and 4 states do so voluntarily. The states that do so voluntarily are denoted with an asterisk (*).











    New Jersey

    New Mexico

    New York*



    Washington State*

    West Virginia

    Thought some of you would like to know ๐Ÿ™‚

  37. RE: Cuts to veterans benefits. There will be lots of pooh pooh from this. It’s also a convenient head fake, a bipartisan one at that. The Head fake is real simple, they vote to cut vet benefits, people get real pissed, then, to the rescue, here comes these Democrats and republicans who, facing a tough re-election, will harp and harp and it will get reversed just in time for the elections.

    This is just another example of the Dems and Repubs being on the same side all along. Think of who wrote this budget bill?

  38. Another Chick-fil-A moment is rising..Duck Commander Phil Robertson is being roasted alive for his anti gay comments…those tolerant liberals!

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Just saw that A&E has “suspended” him from being part of the Duck Dynasty show.

      This will be interesting. They are screwing with an audience that has made this the number ONE show on cable.

      • He has the right to decide his own opinion and say whatever he wants, especially when considering an interview situation where he is being asked his honest opinion.

        I am not familiar with “Duck Dynasty”, but from reading the interview, I have to say that I like Mr. Robertson already. He is a simple man just trying to live right.

        He isn’t exactly eloquent in his speech, and is thus likely a little misunderstood. But if you really try to listen and understand what he is actually trying to say, you will see that he is coming from a position of simplicity, humility and righteousness.

        “I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once,” he told GQ. “Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field. … They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’ — not a word! ”

        Translation: Life there is not like a slave plantation like it is sometimes made out to be. It is just a farming community. No one is pissed off about race. We’re over it. The people that DO look down on poor black farm workers are looking down on me too, because I grew up living and working right along side them.

        ” “It seems like, to me, a vagina — as a man — would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical,” he’s quoted as saying ”

        Translation: Nature and god says we are supposed to be heterosexual. That’s why it feels so right. Sin isn’t logical. ‘Gay’ is a very foreign concept.

        I especially like how he says that sin is illogical. Because I believe, that at some point, reason and spirit, morality, practicality,nature, etc…all converge into some sort of perfect order/balance. Sin is about imbalance.

        I think that is a big part of what the message was about, to find that balance.

        • The Gay Mafia are nothing more than Anti-Constitutionalists. Most gays could care less what was said, but a few of those who DEMAND acceptance are stomping their feet and raising hell. I like Roberson too, I don’t watch DD, and I probably won’t watch anything on A&E in the future if the cave to the political correct crowd. The man has the RIGHT to say what he wants, there is no such RIGHT about not liking it. I hope the show gets cancelled now, to show those liberals who make millions off the backs of the Roberson Family that people have RIGHTS that must be respected, even if Liberals don’t like the results. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • It always amuses me when someone sticks his foot in his mouth, faces some consequence for his statements/actions, and then the whole right wing crowd goes crazy.

            This is not a 1st Amendment issue. This is not an infringement on Robertson’s rights. A&E has the right to take the action it took, however stupid or short-sighted that action may be. (caveat: I am assuming there is a provision in the contract allowing A&E to take this action in this context, but this would be a contractual issue, not a 1st Amendment issue regardless).

            • And when a Left winger does the same thing (Alec Baldwin), there is silence, total hypocrisy. At least we are consistent. For the record, I don’t care how Baldwin feels about gays either. but the silence by the left wingers is GOLDEN ๐Ÿ˜‰

              • Not seeing any hypocrisy here. There wasn’t silence from Baldwin’s comments and Baldwin also lost his show as a result.

              • Buck, there was not near the uproar over Baldwin. He was just yelling BS, I didn’t care then and don’t now. Just like Bashir, it takes time because the liberals hope everyone will forget when one of their own gets stupid. But, it’s almost over now. A&E will lose their #1 show, because they chose to be politically correct. The people who watch these shows will not soon forget either, so basically, A&E may have put themselves out of business. Or, they will change their name, you know, like Climate Change, BWAHAHA ๐Ÿ™‚

            • How is it NOT a 1st Amendment issue? I’m thinking there are two rights in question. He answered a question with an opinion based on his beliefs in a biblical message.

              So are we no longer allowed opinions? Or are we no longer allowed to base our beliefs on the Bible, without fear of retribution? Seems to me its all about silencing speech that the PC crowd doesn’t agree with.

              This will backfire on A&E if for no other reason that Phil doesn’t need A&E nor the other media (he stiffed Barbra Walters just days ago), and he will keep on preaching around the exactly what was the point of suspending him?

              • Anita, I’m totally with you on this one. ๐Ÿ™‚

              • My prediction….The whole family walks away. They don’t need A&E. They don’t need the money.

              • Anita, the 1st Amendment only applies to government inhibiting speech.

                Of course you are allowed to your opinions and to express your opinions. But that doesn’t mean there are no consequences. As I said, it doesn’t matter how stupid or short-sighted A&E’s decision was, it is still A&E’s right to take the action it took.

              • ” Congress shall make no law… ”

                Technically, it isn’t a 1st Amendment issue. It is, however, contrary to the tradition and ‘national values’ of the USA.

                I think Buck is right about agreements between him and his employer. It has to be argued from the perspective of the circumstances regarding their agreement.

              • Anita — out of curiousity where do you stand on this issue?


              • Dale A Albrecht says:

                Anita,…You asked how this controversy is not a 1st ammendment issue. In Alexis de Tocqueville’s book “Democracy in America” originally published in 1835. The chapters titled “The Unlimited Power of the Majority” with a sub-chapter titled “Power exercised by the majority in America upon opinion” pretty much spells it out. The law doesn’t prosecute the opinion, but the majority sure as heck persecute until silenced. You see this over and over. Shows are canceled by the stations for the fear of losing advertisers over their fear of losing customers. Books are not published. Speakers are un-invited to college campuses for fear of disruption. Government is has clean hands but the supression of ideas occurs just the same.

              • Thanks Dale. At this hour, with many comments on this topic..I think I have it Care to tackle my question at the bottom?

            • Just A Citizen says:


              So enlighten us as to how he “put his foot in his mouth”.

              Tell me what was so VILE about what he actually said, as opposed to what the leftwing media HETEROPHOBES are trying to create.

              I see this morning that MSNBC is claiming he “equated” LGBT people to “terrorists”. That is not what he said or did at all.

              He stated that immorality begets more immorality. Whether homosexuality is immoral can be debated. But that is not “homophobic” it is not a “vile” accusation, etc, etc..

              He did not call for harm to homosexuals or for any other punishments.

              • Simple: he spoke without thinking through the consequences. Big whoop – happens all the time.

                To many his comments did come across as homophobic and vile. To many others, they did not. What’s your point?

  39. HEADS UP ! If you shopped at TARGET between Black Friday and Dec 15, there’s a good chance your credit/debit information may have been stolen. Reports that the Secret Service is involved in the investigation. I don’t shop at Target, hope you don’t either.

  40. Winston Churchill said at a time of great sacrifice and often quoted: โ€œIf you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

  41. BUCK, Sadly, the subject of a Christian being HONEST, and answering questions he is asked has become a big mess. WHY? Most, if not all, devout Christians believe homosexuality to be a sin. Muslims don’t screw around, they just behead them in public. Yet, the gat mafia cries foul. I don’t know of one heterosexual man who understands how one man can look at another mans ass and find it sexually attractive, not to mention a desire to have intercourse with another hairy man. I’m sure women feel mostly the same.

    But that’s really not a problem that can’t be ignored, because if ignored, it will go away. But because the Left wingers demand tolerance, although they are the one’s not being tolerant, it’s an issue. So the group demanding tolerance, is really the most intolerant group out there. Can you see the reality of all of this? But, I digress, because that is the least of our problems in this country. Maybe when the intolerant left will stand up for something important, like what’s said in this video, they be taken seriously.

  42. Buck, BL and Anita, DOWN HERE ๐Ÿ™‚

    I really don’t think A&E is doing anything all that wrong. They are a business. If they feel it’s appropriate to fire someone, regardless of the reason. that’s their choice. But, in my opinion, they are cutting their heads off to spite their faces. At some point, business’s are going to realize that political correctness is bad for business, no matter how it’s put to use.

    • I agree.

      Originally, I was simply trying to point out something of value in what he said, maybe taking up for him a little bit.

      The interview apparently touched someone’s sensitivities and became a point of contention. Ultimately, whatever happened between Mr. Robertson and his A&E is between them to resolve.

      I also think it is really up to the networks to decide what audience they will target and what that audience prefers, and how best to manage that. If they determine it is not a simple heterosexual Christian country boy who sees himself as similar to poor black farm workers, that is their choice.

      Although, there are a lot of people in the USA who can relate to a simple heterosexual Christian country boy who relates to poor black farm workers.

  43. Just A Citizen says:


    MY point, Massive OVER REACTION by the HETEROPHOBES.

    And, it is not healthy when vocal HATE GROUPS can dictate what others can or cannot say publicly, just because they have created FEAR among businesses in this country.

  44. Just A Citizen says:

    Re A&E cable channel. For those who don’t know who A&E is here is a short background. Which I think you will see why the KNEE JERK reaction to the Duckstar.

    “A&E (an initialism for its former name, the Arts & Entertainment Network[1]), is an American cable and satellite television channel that serves as the flagship television property of A+E Networks, a joint venture between the Hearst Corporation and Disneyโ€“ABC Television Group (both of which maintain a 50% ownership interest). The channel is headquartered in New York City and operates offices in Atlanta, Georgia; Chicago, Illinois; Detroit, Michigan; London, England; Los Angeles, California and Stamford, Connecticut.[citation needed] The U.S. version of the channel is shown in Canada while international versions exist for Australia and Latin America. The network plans a major launch in Europe during 2014 with several local versions.

    The channel, which originally focused programming on biographies, documentaries, and drama series (especially crime dramas and mysteries), has expanded to include reality television programming. As of August 2013, approximately 98,302,000 American households (86.08% of households with television) receive the A&E channel.[2]”

  45. Anita โ€” out of curiousity where do you stand on this issue?

    Have to side with the Church on this one, though I see your trap and am guilty as charged. In my defense, I said many moons ago that I think many things should be decided case by case, which BF totally blasted me for not being a consistent person ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Wait..somebody tell me when to invoke the 1st Amendment argument. Just because this isn’t involving govt infringing on speech and’s still the same thing isnt it? It’s A&E infringing instead of govt..isnt that the same right being violated?

      • You can invoke the 1st Amendment when there is some government action.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        You are confused because of the HYPOCRISY of the left on this issue. Add to that the “Conservative Media Pundits” who throw around this “violation of rights” when ever the HATERS go after someone.

        A RIGHT as in a NATURAL RIGHT has nothing to do with Government.

        The Constitution lists “freedom of speech” in relationship to Govt, Congress in particular.

        Thus the argument that “freedom of speech” or the “right to speak” is ONLY relative to Govt can be made, namely relative to any “legal argument”.

        So Legally speaking, the LEGAL PROHIBITION on impeding the right to speak is a constraint only on Govt.

        This does not eliminate the reality that individuals can impede or prohibit one’s NATURAL RIGHT to speak their mind.

        Reading my comments again I am not sure I helped with this one. Let me know.

        • JAC, a simpler version. The Constitution/Bill of Rights is designed to ensure the intent of government to PROTECT our Natural Rights that NO ONE can deny us. Government does not grant rights, The governments job is to protect them. So maybe Obama (who is really gay by the way) should step up and do his job for once and defend Phil’s Rights. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • This is getting ridiculous — Robertson’s rights (legal, natural, or otherwise) were not infringed. Plain and simple.

            He has the right to speak his mind; he doesn’t have a corresponding right to not have to face the consequences.

            • Buck, I’m laughing about all of this, just so you know. Here’s the bottom line. The Left do not and won’t tolerate Christian views if it doesn’t fit into their politically correct utopia. That has been proven many times. The end result of all of this, if it stays “as is”, is that A&E will lose 9 million or so viewers and a ton of money. The fans of the show (which I am not one of), will be quite upset at losing their favorite show. All of this because a man spoke about his religious views after being asked a specific question about what is a “sin”. Silly, that so much is lost, all because the so called tolerant are far from actually being tolerant.

              I watched a few interviews on the news this morning. One guy (the lefty) stated “people HAVE to be tolerant and people HAVE to accept diversity. Then another lady lefty, demanded an apology then went on to say that they were all hiding their prejudice behind their patriotic bandanas. First, I don’t HAVE to accept anything, nor does anybody else. This is why those on the left that talk make enemies, because they think they have some special right to DEMAND from others. I actually got alittle pissed at both of them, but realized that they can say what they want. Let’s see if they got the courage to back up their words with force. That, my friend, is highly unlikely. Most people talk about what other “have” to do etc, but they are ultimately cowards. I’m ranting, so don’t mind me too much, LOL ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Consequences which have one purpose………….. to inhibit his Right to Speak.

              When you use FORCE of boycott or threats of such based on a person’s speech you are doing so for one reason. To PREVENT them from speaking again.

              There is nothing ridiculous about it. The intent is clear.

              So perhaps the issue is the ethics of “proper consequences”.

              Does speech that does not cause nor insight harm really deserve ACTION that does impose harm?

        • You spelled out the technicalities well enough. Maybe what I’m going after is that the speech/religion/name your topic police are out in force to SILENCE THE OPPOSITION.

    • So why is it ok for the church to take action against the pastor for his statements/actions but it is not ok for A&E to take action against Robertson for his statements/actions?

      • Don’t know what to tell you. For one..the pastor knew the rules of the church and did something ‘in your face’ and he should face the consequences. Phil spoke his opinion when asked a question..totally unrelated to A&E..A&E should have no involvement in Phil’s personal opinion expressed elsewhere. It’s not like he slandered A&E. Some of those, you know, nuances that you always bring up ๐Ÿ˜‰ I still admit to not being are you gonna suspend me to the SUFA?

  46. Don’t want to get drawn into a lengthy (and pointless) argument over this.

    In my humble opinion, standing for a moral/religious/biological principal can never be attacked as hateful. Hateful is when you advocate for violence (physical or otherwise) against a person who holds views opposite to yours.

    If I opine that “gay marriage” is an impossibility and contrary to six thousand years of tradition and law (the law part is important), then I am not being hateful merely expressing an opinion backed frankly by what used to be assumed as fact. If I advocate that gay people should be denied basic human rights including the right to contract among themselves, then even I admit that can be hateful. So, certainly the denial of the right for people to enter into civil unions or contracts in the past was probably wrong and should, on a purely legalistic basis be allowed. No matter how much you try to change the definition of marriage, that definition is so deeply ingrained into world, yes, world culture that it cannot be changed.

    What I am seeing today, skipping around the blogsphere and networks is an awful lot of hate. It is hate directed against a man who made his opinion known but does not and has not advocated doing harm to anyone. If I counted twenty death wishes, twenty wishes that his children be gay, twenty wishes that he be caught buggering goats or something in a half hour of surfing, I am being conservative.

    Who exactly out there are the haters?

    • Your surfing results are not a surprise. Buck likely don’t realize how vulgar and sick many of his fellow Liberals really are. If he did, he would change sides. I’m surprised he wasn’t offended when Phil included swindler’s (aka, lawyers/politicians) as part of the sinner’s list ๐Ÿ˜†

      • Wrong again G — a lot of the comments directed at Robertson are vile. But so what? They have every right to say them just as Robertson had every right to say what he said. And if one of those commentors is forced to face the music for his/her vile comments, so be it.

        • So, if a couple thousand commenters on HuffPo, for example, were fired from their jobs for saying vile things about Robertson, you’d be OK with that?

          • Maybe P. Morgan should get fired too!

            There was nothing vile or bigoted about what Robertson said, period. FIRE PIERC MORGAN NOW! BWAHAHAHA!

          • I never said that people haven’t become too oversensitive or too quick to rush to judgment or too politically correct…all I said was that people don’t have the right to not face consequences for their actions.

            If 100 HuffPo commentators lost their job I would say the same thing I’m saying about Robertson and A&E — it is a contractual issue, not a 1st Amendment issue. What does the contract say on this? What are the terms of his employment?

            • To be clear, I’m not saying A&E SHOULD have fired him; I’m saying they had the RIGHT to do so (pending contractual terms of course).

              • Buck, as I said, I don’t think A&E did anything wrong (pending contract terms). What they did do was to say to their viewers is that they do not tolerate Christian views. I’m guessing they will be losing lot’s of business over this. That’s their right, so it shall be !

              • Saying someone should die for their deeply held belief which does not advocate acts of violence to another person is NOT, in any way, shape or form equivalent to someone pointing out their deeply held belief where they DON’T call for physical harm to another person. It is not the same thing at all.

                Stop with this equivalency thing already, it gets old and does not work. If you can’t see that, it’s hopeless.

                If I believe that you are guilty of a sin, that’s my belief period. If I try to shoot you because of it or advocate that someone else shoot you than I have really crossed a line. Can you see the difference?

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Only issue I have with this statement is that we really DO NOT know what that contractual arrangement is, so I am putting up a big I DO NOT KNOW if it was allowed per the contract.

                Personally, my issue with A&E and other companies is their lack of SPINE. My biggest issue is with the media hate mongers and the media managers/editors who hype this stuff.

                The reaction by GLAAD was way over the top given the comments quoted by Robertson. Today I see the media is now trying to portray him as a “racist” with headlines “Duck Dynasty Star Also Commented on Race”. The intended implication is obvious.

                The message is clear. If you speak out in ways the left does not like you can expect all HELL to fall upon your head.

    • Government is a mess all by itself. When you mix in economics and religion, you get a mess. When you add ‘gay’ and media, and a bazillion differing opinions, you have a recipe for a chaotic disaster.

      In some respects, it is an anarchist’s sweet vindication watching government trip all over itself trying to regulate the real world with guns and paper.

      ‘Marriage’ is typically a religious/spiritual ceremony and/or institution. Belief systems are something that varies upon individual choice. Therefore defining marriage is an individual choice.

      Defining and Imposing or denying a set of standards premised upon a particular belief system via force is violating the right to self determination and/or free exercise of religion/belief system/values.

      Government claims legitimacy over all people within a set of geographical boundaries, but not everyone has the same set of values or beliefs, thus government cannot effectively define, regulate and enFORCE marriage without people being violated.

      Therefore the answer is to take government out of marriage and allow people to choose and define what they believe and consider to be ‘marriage’.

      By order of nature, men and women will find love and unity and will reproduce with absolutely no help from any piece of paper, ceremony, or social expectation or standards.

      Regulation/force is not necessary.

      • BL. this whole issue is amazingly stupid. If people would just mind their own business, this would not be an issue. That’s the problem with the Left, they can’t do that because they want to DEMAND what other do and think. Then again, maybe lots of folks on the right are the same way..?.. Anarchism seems to be the best way to go, live and let live ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Marriage has nothing to do with the state, it predates the state but the word itself has a meaning which frankly cannot be changed. You may get the sheep to believe that Bill and Harry are married or that Bill, Sue, Peg, Mary and Jane are married but guess what? It don’t fly. You can even legislate it here but it sure as well ain’t gonna fly in the majority of societies around the world. It is typical Western/American hubris that we would even attempt to do so. On the one hand our best liberals decry America trying to impose its values on the world on the other hand the schizophrenics demand that we do so!

        • ” BL. this whole issue is amazingly stupid. ”

          …which is kind of why it has a certain entertainment value to me.

          ” If people would just mind their own business, this would not be an issue. ”


          ” Thatโ€™s the problem with the Left, they canโ€™t do that because they want to DEMAND what other do and think. Then again, maybe lots of folks on the right are the same way..?”

          I think so. It is the whole system.

          Anarchism seems to be the best way to go, live and let live

          Again, I think so.

          True Anarchy to me, is a very peaceful, orderly and more efficient and refined society where the the fundamental elements of human nature and socialization, rights and responsibility, are learned and promoted toward mutual benefit and understanding, rather than dominance or conquest…where force is only necessary to restore order from the occasional skirmish between gangs or a bar fight or whatnot.

          I think the balance of order requires a combination of libertarian live and let live style foundation, a free market economic system, and golden rule style voluntary communist systems for things such as infrastructure and education, food and healthcare, etc.

          I think with modern technology and level of knowledge and education, we are better equipped now than ever before to handle it. But the change over would be quite an undertaking as people are very much indoctrinated toward only accepting the current debacle.

          It has to be Order out of Chaos. …which means wait until it crashes and rebuild anew, or induce a crash, perhaps more of a controlled crash…IF people don’t COMPLETELY enslave themselves first, …which, sadly, seems to be the way people want it.

          I suppose I can sit here all night and define the ideal anarchist society, but you get the idea.

  47. Buck, Courts have ruled that a photographer and a cake baker MUST do business with gay’s despite their personal views, so should it not be equally applied that A&E must do business with Robertson despite his personal views?

    • Those are issues based upon state law where the state (or locality) prohibits discrimination based on religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

      Personally, I would err on the side of: no, the photographer and cake baker shouldn’t be forced to do business with someone they don’t want to do business with. But they should be ready to face the consequences of their actions…

      • Isn’t discrimination based on religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. illegal under Federal Labor Laws? If so, A&E is in violation as an employer.

        I’m in agreement that no business should be forced to do business with another. The question above bears some time, was Robertson an employee of A&E?

        the photographer and cake baker shouldnโ€™t be forced to do business with someone they donโ€™t want to do business with. But they should be ready to face the consequences of their actionsโ€ฆ
        Interesting that I’m sure both didn’t need the business, as the gay community is rather small. The only consequences seem to come from the corrupt judicial system.

        • Question for the lawyer in you. How can one’s religious views be determined as discrimination against sexual orientation when religious views are also protected. A legal ruling in favor of one or the other would then be discrimination would it not?

          • Religious VIEWS can be seen as separate and distinct from discriminatory ACTIONS.

            Same reason why we can criminalize polygamy or the use of peyote.

            • See, here’s where I see one’s religion (and associated views from said religion) as protected. Hence, because a vast majority of Christians think homosexuality is a sin, your saying they can be denied employment because of their Christian beliefs?

        • Pretty sure Robertson is not an “employee” of A&E….

        • Wouldn’t his contract be for providing a service to A&E? Basically, his being on a show that A7E owns is providing a service, not much different than baking a cake, which is also providing a service.

          • The difference between A&E and the baker lies in the state statute at issue. It has nothing to do with federal law (not an employment issue nor a 1st Amendment issue).

            • A&E have offices in numerous states, so if they violated a State statute where they have an office, they can be treated under same ruling as the baker? Just curious, I mostly agree with the legal stuff your saying. Or, since the DD show is broadcast in every state, wouldn’t the statute in Colorado apply?

              • Colorado statute wouldn’t apply; it would probably come down to the jurisdiction in which Robertson resides.

                Also, even if Colorado law was to apply, would need to read the actual law to determine its scope/applicability here.

              • Very well ! We shall see where it goes from here. I’m guessing A&E says goodbye to the show, or it caves to it’s share holders and gives Phil a big apology. A&E wanted them to stop praying and talking about Jesus and guns, all of which was reported. The show is likely dead now. OH Well,

  48. The top 1 percentโ€™s share at the end of 2012 was equal to 50.4 percent of the U.S.โ€™s overall wealth, a level higher than any other year since 1917 and surpassing 1928, the peak of stock market bubble in the โ€œroaringโ€ 1920s, according to Emmanuel Saez, a professor of economics at the University of California, Berkeley.

    Since the financial crisis of 2008, the top 1 percent of incomes have grown by 31.4 percent while the bottom 99 percent of incomes has grown only by 0.4 percent, he said.

    This is what Obamaโ€™s and Bernankeโ€™s monetary policies do to the country. They provide massive infusions of wealth to the wealthiest people. Even though Warren Buffett does not live in Connecticut, this is what Jim Grant was referring to when he said,


    Yet the Left say’s the right are for the rich, what bullshit. !

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      The very wealthy and banks have the access to the QE money at negative or zero interest rates. Why would they invest in us lowly shlubs for a low return on the money. Play in the stock market and really reap huge returns. Stocks are trading at numbers way above the real valuation of the companies. The amount of stocks being purchased on borrowed money available by QE or rightfully called the Bernanke Bubble will burst as sure as the sun comes up in the morning. The huge smartest investors are largely getting out and buying real tangible assets like property etc. Where the normal unsubsided portion of the population has to cope with a 23% raise in food costs over the past 6 months. At least here in Eastern NC, The government says no inflation but food is excluded from the calculation. My great retirement medical bill is estimated to be $10680.00 that is premiums and out of pocket for the cheapest policy. WHO in the lower 99% had any money left over to gamble in the stock market?

  49. My question is still unanswered.

    What was the point of suspending Phil Robertson? I’ve already pointed out that the Robertsons will carry on making duck calls and preaching to record crowds. They don’t need A&

    • Haven’t kept up very well with above posts, so apologize if you good people have already addressed this.

      What if Phil was a Muslim and had stated his beliefs? How would the media handle it? They are always oh so silent when it comes to the religion of Islam and its treatment of gays and women.

      • Muslims would never have had a show as popular in the US. To answer your question, the Left would have been silent. I addressed this earlier, Muslims just behead gay’s in public, the Left are cowards and wouldn’t dare speak up.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Going to take a cynical viewpoint…..maybe Duck Dynasty’s contract was written at a time when they were not really known. Less money. Their success had been largely unforseen by A&E and Duck Dynasty. Saying what was said, for what ever reason, is in this day and age going to get you firedby a MSM controlled company. Good way to break a contract. However, they will be picked up by another network at a better renumeration to them. Just look at IMUS, Juan Williams, for comments made and Lou Dobbs for differences with CNN. Guess where they all landed? It’s all about money.

      • Good point! Fox will pick it and make millions. At that point, the show will be hated by the MSM and the Left. It will set record setting viewership because of that. Just sayin ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          Never to this day had I spent one minute thinking about much less caring about “Duck Dynasty” When I 1st saw pictures of them I thought they were ZZ Top wannabees. We also have to think about faux controversies. Is this really important???? Like a magician distracting you during a magic trick. Distracted the people from the real issues, like the NSA, and all the abuses the government is endorsing. Full fledged attack on our liberties. The ACA and all the yet undiscovered methods of transfering wealth upward and consolidating more power unto themselves. The games congress is playing with the “Budget” crisis. The fed. The president modifying laws at will. (Using Lower Case) to show my loss of respect for the government and it’s officials. One of the business papers I subscribe to said, the ACA is a total travesty and will be a disaster for the people. The odds of it being repealed in the near future is nil. However, like Hillary said, never let a good crisis go to waste. They said as an investor, find the companies the government is contracting for the ACA invest in them and you’ll make a fortune. One problem with that. The government is doing no bid contracts, basically secret.
          I’m done for tonight. Awaken at the crack of dawn by the “Duck” hunters.

          • ” Like a magician distracting you during a magic trick. Distracted the people from the real issues, like the NSA, and all the abuses the government is endorsing. Full fledged attack on our liberties. ”

            You might as well indulge.

            The majority eagerly and stubbornly demands violence and enslavement, many without realizing it. They take pride in their ‘freedom’, having no idea they are just happy slaves confusing freedom with contentment. If you try to point it out to them, they will reject you.

            The US (among others) is essentially a police state.

            …and millions upon millions of people will vote again next time to demand more of it.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Clever use of the word “essentially”. It allows you to avoid reality and instead sell hyperbole.

              • Drones are patrolling your skies, Innocent people like grammas and children are having their underwear inspected while traveling, your emails and phone conversations are being recorded and stored, the government, has been promoting propaganda reminiscent of Nazi Germany and has been taking measures for mass population control for decades in law and practice, has large numbers of coffins stored, is doing beta tests with civilians and tolerance to mass house to house police raids.

                I could go on for quite a while defining “essentially a police state”

                …snap, snap snap… WAKE UP.

  50. The Robertson Family Offical Statement

    We want to thank all of you for your prayers and support. The family has spent much time in prayer since learning of A&E’s decision. We want you to know that first and foremost we are a family rooted in our faith in God and our belief that the Bible is His word. While some of Philโ€™s unfiltered comments to the reporter were coarse, his beliefs are grounded in the teachings of the Bible. Phil is a Godly man who follows what the Bible says are the greatest commandments: โ€œLove the Lord your God with all your heartโ€ and โ€œLove your neighbor as yourself.โ€ Phil would never incite or encourage hate.We are disappointed that Phil has been placed on hiatus for expressing his faith, which is his constitutionally protected right.We have had a successful working relationship with A&E but, as a family, we cannot imagine the show going forward without our patriarch at the helm. We are in discussions with A&E to see what that means for the future of Duck Dynasty. Again, thank you for your continued support of our family.

    • C&P from their site..I know how to spell OFFICIAL ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • I was wondering if the family was going to back him. Looks like they are. Bashir (sp?) said some rather foul and hateful things about Sarah Palin and was not admonished, suspended, etc. by his network for doing so. Phil’s comments were his opinion and were not hateful to anyone. They did not deviate from what many Christian think or say about the subject. Yet he is censured. Tis in interesting contrast in left/right levels of decency.

      • Another Victory today for tolerance and respect for the opinions of others. Lockheed Martin announced that it will join the ranks of such notable corporations as Intel and United Parcel Service in cutting off donations to The Boy Scouts of America because of their discriminatory policy in not allowing adult male homosexuals to be scout leaders. Yea tolerance! yea respect for others opinions!

        Personally it is too bad I don’t purchase airplanes so I could demonstrate my tolerance to them.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          I know this is a cliche…”Putting the fox in the hen house” comes to mind. How soon we forget about the ongoing child abuse scandal by pedophiles within the Catholic church and others. But symantics of words are used to excuse the behavior as a psychiatric disorder instead of calling it what it is. Criminal preying, usually by homosexuals, on prepubescent children unable to defend themselves. Having been put in a position of authority and trust it was abused and the leaders who knowingly put them there got off scott free. History will repeat itself. Whereas the BSA leadership is fighting against the probable exposuring the scouts to harm. I’m sure when it does only the BSA leadership will be sued, not the States, Courts, and PC sponsors. Oh I forgot, at camp we used to have rifles and pistols, bows and arrows and knives and really learned how to use them for survival. So maybe the problem will be solved.

          • You, Dale, are not allowed to point out that male on male predation is anything other than a freak anomaly. Child molesters are predominantly male as are their victims but, there is no link to homosexuality. There is no link between the culture of youth favored by the gay community and adolescent boys either.

            So, despite the fact that I always go to great lengths to point out that very few homosexuals are child molesters and that all children molested are not boys, to merely equate adult male on young males male as possibly homosexual in nature brings down the wrath of the gay community on me. They are not honest folks.

        • Maybe the answer is the free market solution, be it that if scouting programs want to exist, they’re going to have to cooperate with the wishes/demands of the parents in their respective communities.

          If people don’t want to send their sons to ‘gay scouts’, why should they have to defend their position or be questioned? Is it not a parent’s right and responsibility to decide who and what influences their child?

          • Unfortunately, in a sane world, you would be correct however, we are living in “A Brave New World”. In this world, if you disagree with the prevailing pap, you are wrong, you are bigoted and you are evil.

            The black robed solons in New Mexico also found yesterday (a truly great day) that apparently the people who drafted the New Mexico Constitution, way back when, intended for male-male and female-female marriage. The court, after slaughtering seventeen birds and studying their entrails for months determined that any current law blocking same sex marriage is unconstitutional.

  51. @ BL…re: drones. They are very easy to shoot down. They do not fly very fast. Ask the EPA how many they have lost in Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico. A .243 or a .270 brings them down quite easily…they fly in patterns….align yourself for a head on approach, wait for the bank, pull the trigger….

  52. Buck

    Found this comment while surfing..wonder if you’d like to respond.

    Legally, this is more than just a First Amendment case. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 specifically prohibits adverse employment actions based on a person’s religion. Robertson was asked what he considered to be sins and was responding to the question based on the tenants of his religion. Any first year law student will crush A&E in court….and Phil will make even more millions.

    Didn’t look up Title VII..just ASSuming the guy knows his stuff.

    • The question then becomes what are “employment actions” as defined under Title VII?

    • I’ll venture a guess that this is a FAT CHANCE.

      Stations such as A&E spend millions building up a brand. There is way too much at stake for them to run the risk of being tied to a bigot and having their whole brand smeared. And, of course, it’s worth noting that a sizable portion of A&E’s programming is aimed at the gay demographic.

      Imagine that he had said something even worse “all the fags should be rounded up and exterminated along with all the ni****s and the kykes.” Now what? Where does that leave A&E if they don’t have some sort of out? Now they’re forced to employ the worst person in the world and give him airtime on their channel? Fat Chance.

      I 1,000% guarantee you that they have a negative publicity clause in the contract for every single person they hire which gives them unilateral and unfettered ability to fire anyone who threatens to besmirch their brand. ::Puts on lawyer hat, cracks knuckles:: Something along the lines of “If, for any reason(s) whatsoever, regardless of fault or origin, the employee poses a threat of negative publicity for the employer or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates, the employer may terminate. Employee shall have no recourse, nor shall such decision be subject to litigation.” ::takes off lawyer hat:: If the employee doesn’t like the contract, he won’t sign.

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