Open Mic Part 18

IMG_0038Repeat after me, Spring is not far away, Spring is not far away!  To prove it, here’s a picture I took yesterday of some newborns, just a few hours old!



  1. Gmanfortruth says:


  2. Gmanfortruth says:

    @Mathius, It’s just a matter of time before this comes to America (it’s from Canada). The article brings up some good questions. While the courts, as you have mentioned, has catered to the LGBT crowd, they may have opened a can of worms that they may lose in the long run. One reason people should be careful what they ask for 🙂

  3. Gmanfortruth says:
  4. Gmanfortruth says:

    Brought forward 🙂

    d13thecolonel says:

    March 3, 2014 at 8:19 am (Edit)

    @ Charlie….I was not even talking about the amount of troops or where they are stationed. I was not talking about interventions. I was talking about funding and it appears that no one on here understands defense funding, how it is done, what is allocated, where it is allocated, and the long term effects of the allocations. You are mired in the thought that the military defense budget is about weapons systems and payouts to the one percent. Perhaps you should ask someone familiar with budgets and allocations. You champion labor unions and contracts….will you champion the military and their contracts ( no, not contracts with suppliers….contracts with its personnel ) You are a champion of minimum wage and the downtrodden but you do not champion the very same thing when it comes to the military that have already served and the military currently serving and those that are at poverty or below the ” SO CALLED ” poverty line. You always want the people, the workers, remembered but you neglect the military because it does not serve your cause and you do not view that as a worthy employment. So , I ask you again, tale the time to look at defense budget allocations…….the real allocations and the goddamned pie charts that the Government puts out. That is smoke filled coffee house bullshit….the pie charts and numbers that the government puts out. Why don’t you champion the plights of the 85% of the military that is on food stamps? Why don’t you champion the 100% of the military that is losing their “lifetime, contracted” health benefits. They accepted lower wages for longer term benefits and they backed it up by putting their life on the line. You offer platitudes about Indians and field workers and slaves of the past….and you ridicule the future. You are champion the masses of those on welfare, food stamps, government housing and are conspicuously silent for the average military family that settles for much less. And now, you have military families being charged for their housing, their utilities, and the elimination of their commissaries….while the lazy get subsidies for their housing, utilities, and food and the military, is ” disqualified for housing and utility subsidies”. You champion minimum wage yet are silent on the loss of COLA’s for both retirement and active duty while the so called “defined” minorities are given increases in their subsidies. The lazy and freeloaders are given everything and you say this is good and retribution yet you are silent on the fact that a lazy assed, person that lives off of unemployment, food stamps, housing, etc can get their benefits in less than one week……but you are silent on the military disabled that have to wait 15 months to get “EARNED” disability and have to then pay a tax on the prosthetics they receive. You do not see, or refuse to see, where a signed contract with the US government is denied or taken away and there is no legal way to sue the Federal Government to get them back.

    I have a suggestion… the Federal Register on a weekly basis and you will see where these things are now included in a defense budget for allocation. You will see where rule changes to existing contracts are terminated without recompense. You will see the hypocrisy of the Federal Government

    Now. that said and I feel a little better….how in the hell are ya, Captain Cannoli…..have missed you.

    Special Note to the Washington Post………you got it right on your article concerning Obama and his foreign policy. He IS in a fantasy world.

    Special Note to China…….you want Taiwan…..go ahead and get it. It is ready for your takeover. The US will do nothing.

    Special Note to Putin….we know the real reason for your intervention in the Crimea and Ukraine and it has nothing to do with a warm water port at all or trade, although that is a profitable benefit. You do not have to have unmarked troops anymore….you know, the mysterious gunmen…..Europe will do nothing, NATO will do nothing….because you now control 10 of 11 pipelines that supply Europe with oil and natural gas…you will simply turn the spigot off…..and you have nothing to worry about from the defanged and toothless US except for John ” fucking ” Kerry coming over to “taunt you a second time”. So, do not stop there…I know where you want to go next.

    Special Note to Syria… have full reign to gas your people now, no one will stop you and we all know that you have not turned your weapons in….as was required by the “Russian” negotiations. You have been propped up by the Russian Government and now it is time for payback.

    Special Note to Al Qaeda… have nothing to fear any longer and you have fooled me in how fast you have taken over three central African countries in addition to the 6 states that I predicted two years ago….way to go….keep going. no one is around to stop you.

    Special Note to Iran…..want Iraq…go ahead and take it. No one will stop you. The Russians have supplied you well and we all know that those unmarked troops that are there….are not yours.

    Special KUDOS to Putin and his mastery of chess. Everyone knows, or should know, that the way to economic success is hegemony and you learned well. You have manufactured a global chess board where you hold all queens….and you have used them well. You learned very well from your lesson in Afghanistan. Patience has its rewards and your brilliant use of the Olympics and the world stage to move 40,000 troops, unnoticed by western media was a cool move. Always create a diversion……


    • Go Colonel. Quick, hit this Doctor Pepper to calm your blood pressure! With your permission, I’m going to forward this for my son in law to blast to all his Marine connections.

      I couldn’t find the original post from Charlie. G can you bring that over too?

      • I think that Charlie answered you and then threw me in….

        • cool, found it… I hate this, though, because I agreed with what Charlie wrote, until you made more sense. Nothing can ever be easy.

      • Gmanfortruth says:

        charlieopera says:

        February 28, 2014 at 6:06 pm (Edit)

        “you should be more worried about the Defense budget cutbacks.”

        Why, Colonel? We’re armed to the tooth. Everybody else is still catching up. How about we take a break for a few years and maybe learn a lesson or two about our unbeatable military (since it’s now 1-2 in its last three actual engagements). Besides, the technology seems to be doing all the fighting anyway. Doesn’t seem like we need boots on the ground anymore. At least bring those serving in the last of the fiascos (Afghanistan) home so they can adopt to life without a job while the 1% continues to reap the rewards of hypercapitalism. Unless, of course, we’re willing to admit the military is serving as a temporary employment agency …

    • plainlyspoken says:

      Let me bring my response forward – What Colonel do you think should be done in answer to all these issues you raise (Putin, China, AQ, Syria, etc)?

      • Absolutely nothing…….My whole point is………if we are going to go defensive…then shut up. Obama, Biden, and Kerry are frigging laughing stocks to the world now. We have the direct appearance of being very weak and they know it. Do not draw lines in the sand…do not do sanctions nor talk about them, do not bluster, do not crow…just be quiet and simply pull out and shut up. Do not fret about Europe nor bail them out. Do not give money to Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, or any European or third world country. Become isolationists….there is no other alternative. All this crap about peace, harmony, and love is nothing but crap. In this world, it cannot and will not exist. Hegemony is the total weapon….it is the largest and most powerful weapon. More powerful than diplomacy, which is always a joke, more powerful than any nuclear weapon, and more powerful than a jalepeno laced beer fart in a sleeping bag.

        There is a caveat, however……what do you want to do when we start having hostages taken again because we will not go after them….should we? Or, in my opinion, is that not the risk they take for being there in the first place.

        I just do not want the lefties saying later……we need to do something…..or ” I can’t believe that Russia is doing this” or what is happening to the economy….where is the money…where is our respect? For years, the left has been hammering this country about respect and how much has been lost….what are they going to say now……see I told you so? Or will they actually wake up and figure out the world is NOT AND NEVER WILL BE Kumbaya…..nor Star Trek. If we were to pull back totally and mind our own business….the vacuum will most certainly be filled and Putin knows this. There are those that think the Eastern European bloc cannot be recaptured….they are wrong. The only real power in that part of the world is England…..and Germany…..neither have the resources nor the will to check expansion. Putin has what he needs now…….he really does not need anything else….tactically speaking. Oil and gas rule the world. He has the bargaining power now…except there will be no bargaining.

        Take a hard look at the old Triparte….just change the players.

        As a side note……controlling the spigot is a major chit in the survival of the Euro…….think about it. Want to bring Germany to its knees without firing a shot….turn the spigot.

        • Gmanfortruth says:

          Maybe it’s time to realize we are no longer the world’s #1 Superpower. We don’t have the infrastructure and industrial strength any longer. I agree, pull back and become isolationist.
          I don’t think our military really wants to fight for Obama any longer, he has alienated them too many times.

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            The Ukraine thing reminds me of Libya in some ways. It seems that CHINA has an agreement with Ukraine to defend them against a nuclear attack (agreed with ousted President) and have recently leased 3 million hectares of farmland. No wonder the US want’s this change in Govt. So, in short, both Russia and China have a huge economic stake in the Ukraine and are on the same side against the BS coup funded by the EU and the US.

        • Wow-I just don’t know-I read your words D13 and everything in me knots up into a ball in rejection of this idea. I also know I am reacting more to my gut than any actual knowledge in this area-but I’m just not sure how much difference it makes in the long run how strong you are militarily if you let the whole world go to crap.

          One thing I do know is Obama isn’t choosing either option-he’s making us weaker militarily and IMO not trying to withdraw from any conflicts-he’s simply changing alliancies.

          • I find my gut agrees more with this-tell me why I’m right or wrong.


          • plainlyspoken says:

            I agree with much of what the Colonel said. The US has been propping up Europe, the Middle East Southern Asia since the end of WW2. It seems like the US political views have been that we are the parent who needs to support and defend our children for the rest of time.

            It would be better to be asking why the nations haven’t worked to improve themselves to the point where they can stand on their own? For too much of the world depends on American military and economic strengths to9 keep the bullies at bay – and that hasn’t worked very well now has it?

            Stay home and mind our own business. We do not belong there as the cop on the corner.

            I have to laugh when the government & the pundits act all upset about the violations of international law and agreements being broken by Putin. The US has no more concern for the rights of others/nations when it is decided it is in our national interests to take some action, regardless of international law, treaties or agreements. As I said when this all first broke into the open, the pot (US) calling the kettle (Russia) black.

  5. Gmanfortruth says:

    Also brought forward 🙂

    Black Flag® says:

    March 2, 2014 at 9:27 pm (Edit)

    On top of that, no alien civilization exists much closer to the center of the galaxy then we are.

    The cosmic rays from that center are so intense that it blasts complex molecules to smithereens.

    So any aliens will be around the outer rings – like us – and, like us, will be around young stars – it takes a lot of billions of years to create a solar system. Again, maybe they have even a million years on us, but given the small set of stars necessary to make planets, and the incredibly unlikelihood those stars produced higher elements, it is very unlikely they are space faring.

    Again, where are they? Space is silent, except for us. So far, only our species is blasting radio waves into the galaxy – we hear nothing else

    • Gmanfortruth says:

      I certainly can’t argue with the logic on this matter. Knowing how long it takes to travel, within the galaxy, there is no way of knowing what may exist in other, far away galaxies. Maybe in a couple hundred years, we will invent a way to travel millions of light years without aging in the process. Until then, our best understanding of what an alien may be like will have to rest with Charlie 😆

  6. oliscopacetic says:

    Growing up we learned of the witches warning to Caesar. Beware the ides of March.
    What is the Ides of March? The last week of winter. Winter is in her death throws during that week, You can experience just about anything during that week. Ice Snow sunshine warmth thunder lightning and Tornados. But no matter what rest assured winter will die and Spring will come. It has been happening for the past 10,000 years (or at least since the last ice age began to melt) I think you could call that Global warming?

  7. Gmanfortruth says:

  8. At BF……………….” Discrimination is a human right.
    Suppression of discrimination is evil.”………………………………Wow!

  9. Colonel, could you speak about Germany, please. Friend of mine is obsessed that we are in the end times and he thinks that Germany is going to be a major player. This comes from his study of the bible, with Assyria being present day Germany. He seems to think Germany is already a major player, the king of Europe. I can’t argue his knowledge of the bible, but he’s been known to have a solution looking for a problem. I don’t know if this makes sense, but could you take a stab at explaining Germany’s place in world events. Or anyone else can take a shot too, thanks.

    • Germany is the economic player of Europe. Without Germany, the Euro falls. Without the Euro, the union falls, w/o the union, Europe is back in the 16th…century. Nothing biblical about it……just reality. Economically, the Swiss cannot take its place….neither can France…

      • The union fails – true. But better for Europe, not worse.

        Decentralization ALWAYS improves stability in a region. Let the people self-organize, reduces impositions, and creates peace.

        “Tall fences make good neighbors”

    • Germany is the center of economics in Europe, no doubt – and for the incredible benefit of Europe.

      Fear of Germany has caused two World Wars – a fear that was absolutely unfounded but manufactured by Churchill. Sadly, that sick infection of his still circulates.

      • Really…..who is afraid of Germany? The only fear that Germany creates, is the fear of being individual. I think that if the EU fails, it will do nothing more than create instability in that region….the only survivor…..Germany. Even over Switzerland, in my view point. The Swiss have lost their old WWII autonomy….with the current banking system….the Swiss are simply another player. Don’t you think?

  10. canineweapon says:


    This one’s for you!
    Texas this last weekend:


  11. Gmanfortruth says:
    • Yep, a boy who is father-less because his Dad thought his own life was worthless.

      Yet, the mass insanity gets reinforced, not muted.

      When we honor men who believed their lives are worthless, we create more people who want to make their lives worthless.

      War will end when we demean those that fight them.

      • Gmanfortruth says:

        I disagree with your idiotic claim that people who serve in the military believe their lives are worthless. Total and utter BULLSHIT.

      • plainlyspoken says:

        I believe BF simply means military troops have shown their willingness to sacrifice all, even their lives for the whim of government. Wasting their ability as long term real worth to society. And I am sure BF will quickly slap me back if I am wrong. 🙂

        • But that is the case, Gman. It is utterly a waste and is pointless.

          Plainly is correct. The lost generation of WW1 still echoes today – some of the best of men were slaughtered. Imagine what a world we would have if those geniuses applied themselves in society instead of dying pointlessly in battle. Millions of them.

          To be a soldier, you must become mindless. Obey other mindless minions – rip apart one’s own human nature that abhors killing – to put one’s self at the mercy of others who are as equally mindless and soul-lost.

          It is because so many, like you, believe killing is honorable that war remains a curse.

          • Very interesting analogy……I know of no one who believes killing is honorable. There is nothing honorable about taking another life. You never forget it, always see it, dream it, remember it, even relive it… carry a sense of guilt with you the rest of your life. Nope…nothing honorable about it at all.

            The most unfortunate thing is that……………… is inevitable.

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            It is because so many, like you, believe killing is honorable

            Once again, another bullshit claim. You should stick to the Dr. Spock logic stuff and get out of the Psychology business, you have just failed.

            Not all military people engage in war or ever kill another human. Just because they have been lied to by government, doesn’t make them worthless. I don’t disagree that wars are stupid, and many in our lives really extra stupid. That doesn’t make them look in the mirror and feel worthless. your claim is still utter bullshit, period.

            • plainlyspoken says:

              G, no they don’t – directly. But even those in non-combat positions are there to support the combat mission. It’s more to the point of what a military member chooses to do by being in the military – voluntarily. Yes, wars are stupid and any decent human being should abhor the idea of killing anyone and be haunted by it as well. But, what is lost to future society by the ones who do perish for some inane reasoning of government?

            • plainlyspoken says:

              to put one’s self at the mercy of others who are as equally mindless and soul-lost.

              Remember the old saying G, “ours in not to reason why, just to do or die.”

              • Gmanfortruth says:

                Don’t remember that saying, because we weren’t taught that it was OK to die in the AF. Not sure what everyone else was taught to believe, but living was by far more important.

                You and BF actually support my beliefs as to where the real problem lies…..government.

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            Flagster, kinda curious as how you think that we deal with all of the corrupt government and their minions who are constantly attacking our natural rights? Do you have a magic wand that can fix this without any violence? If you do, I want one too! How does your logic, fight the violent evil people of this world?

  12. Gmanfortruth says:

    This would be happening here if not for our Bill of Rights. It may still happen here if people don’t start standing up to the corrupt Federal/State governments :

  13. Gmanfortruth says:

    US 2012 Elections

    US elections in 2012 pitted “conservative Republican” Mitt Romney against “liberal Democrat,” Barack Obama. To so many millions of people, it was a pivotal moment in American history, with the fate of the nation, and in many ways the world, at the mercy of the electorate. In reality, the same corporate-funded policy think tanks were authoring the agendas of both men, who, while holding the position of “commander in chief,” would ultimately be at the mercy of an unelected “board of directors” consisting of corporate-financier interests that hide behind the facade of “democracy.”

    Indeed, the wars, geopolitical maneuvering, and extraterritorial economic pursuits of the United States unfolding for 8 years under US President George Bush, continued or were expanded in earnest under President Obama. Wars engineered years ago under Bush were rebranded and sold under Obama. Instead of being a component of the unending “War on Terror,” they took on a more suitable “liberal,” “humanitarian” theme, however, these conflicts were nonetheless part of a predetermined, decades-spanning geopolitical campaign to maintain and expand US hegemony across the planet.

    What then did the 2012 elections accomplish? They gave people the fleeting hope that the policies they’ve held in contempt under Bush would somehow be reversed, that justice would be served, and that progress would be made. Instead of effecting real change, locally and pragmatically, the people turned to their opiate of voting booths, campaign slogans, and the promise of a quick fix and in the end simply compounded their problems further.

  14. Gmanfortruth says:

    My eyes saw what your eyes saw, so what happened if what we saw didn’t happen? I have a theory, based on the past.

  15. Gmanfortruth says:
  16. .

  17. RE: Ancient Aliens

    I do not doubt the enginuity of humans. It is everywhere, all around us…going back through history.

    But it is not as simple a question of whether humans were enginuitive enough to perform such feats, but rather trying to explain what has been discovered.

    Consider this…

    There are a great many artifacts that when examined further, when deeper questions are asked, suggests that whoever made them, were of a greater level of advancement than anything known to be within human capability.

    For example; there was once a scientist on TV examining an ancient monument of large stone faces. He was trying to trace the steps of whoever built them. The math/geometry alone, to be able to design the complex curves ad such was somewhat complex in comparison to earlier known systems. They were solid stones as well, the shapes being perfectly symmetrical. A certain level of advancement was required.

    ….or another would be the tiny uniform tool marks, that when applied to the actual design of the carvings, suggests that only a machine comparable to modern machines, would have been used.

    …another example is the way certain stone structures are jointed together. It is in a way that would have required a level of complexity and precision that was unknown.

    I could go on, as there are many similar such things. But here is the real point:

    It stands to reason, that if early humans had such devices to be able to perform such tasks, …if there was a somewhat practical method available, there would be evidence as well the sharing of knowledge and subsequent development of such technology. It would be incorporated into structures everywhere.

    You would think, that these superior methods would have been recorded in writings and glyphs. You would think there would be evidence of their design, perhaps even evidence of the actual machines. …like a big rusty fossil or something.

    When you consider things such as their systems of writing and numerical/mathematical systems, they simply were not up to par with the level of sophistication required to build complex machines.

    If earlier humans would have had such technology, it stands to reason that knowledge and technology would have advanced further from that point in time until now. We would not be scratching our heads trying to figure out how they did it, but rather would have developed from those methods and tech, and would be further up the tech ladder by now.

    And it is not only technology to build these things, but also the stories told in myths and legends, religions and belief systems. …be it things like ‘wheels within wheels’ and ‘chariots of fire’. , …nephilim/fallen ones, sons of gods, Atlantis, Mu, etc etc

    It all fits to suggest ancient alien influence, or at least a greater level of advancement very early on.

    I am not opposed to the idea that maybe humans were indeed quite advanced at some point, and that by order of a cataclysmic event, devolved or lost a lot of knowledge and had to rebuild/re-evolve. …that the ancient monuments are the remnant of what we once were.

    But there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

    • Yes, lots of questions.

      But to pre-suppose that the ancients weren’t capable of doing such feats is incredible – that these things exist more point to their capacity, not aliens.

      Again, because we marvel does not have to invoke aliens or “gods”. Men are incredible in of themselves without having to appeal to external out-of-this-world stuff.

      • I agree with Flaggy here. If someone is intent on achieving a specific goal, and they rack their brains hard enough, they will generally find a way. You have no record of the thousands upon thousands of failed attempts to build structure X, but some small percentage hit the right solution, so there it stands as a marvel of the ancient world – it’s sample bias, nothing more.

        I tend to believe that, in the absence of other evidence, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one.

        Also, of course, I might ask the question: don’t aliens have better things to do than travel lightyears just to help some primitive ape-descendants build some rock structures?

        • Gmanfortruth says:

          Also, of course, I might ask the question: don’t aliens have better things to do than travel lightyears just to help some primitive ape-descendants build some rock structures?

          If everyone on the planet was like Flaggy, wouldn’t you do it 😆

        • Might depend on whether you actually think we are ape descendants or not. I sure as crap don’t. And if God created me, then he sure could have created life on other planets also.

          Not saying he did, just that he could have.

      • I don’t know, BF……Charlie can’t possibly be of this earth….

      • plainlyspoken says:

        I too agree with BF. Because it is some marvel that we wonder how such “primitive” peoples could accomplish doesn’t mean they did not. The plain evidence says they did, while no real tangible evidence exists that it was some star traveling superior race.

        • Gmanfortruth says:

          I have never seen a UFO or an alien, except on TV, which don’t count, LOL. I would imagine that there is some form of life other than what we have on earth, somewhere out there in the great big universe. Wouldn’t it be cool to see real proof one day though? Preferably from a very long distance away, like through a big telescope 🙂

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            I do like a good alien invasion movie! Nothing like watching someone’s imagination come to life in the form of an alien and their vehicles and weapons. Fun stuff when times are slow, like winter 🙂

            • I am a big Sci-Fi buff. I, like you G, like to see the imagination come to life. I love the graphics most of all. And of all the Genres out there Sci-Fi and Fantasy take the biggest imaginations of all.

      • ” But to pre-suppose that the ancients weren’t capable of doing such feats is incredible – that these things exist more point to their capacity, not aliens ”

        FACT: they exist and are readily available for examination.

        How did they get there? How was it done? Where is the evidence?

        ” Again, because we marvel does not have to invoke aliens or “gods”. Men are incredible in of themselves without having to appeal to external out-of-this-world stuff. ”

        Form your hand with your fingers together like a salute. Now separate your ring finger and middle finger(like ‘Mork’ nanu-nanu), while rotating your thumb.

        Now put your ring finger and middle finger together with your index finger and pinky stretched outward. Wiggle and rotate your index and pinky fingers around while holding the middle two still, and your thumb pressed in your palm.

        This dexterity is what enables you to write and build things. Other primates, and just about any animal with a hand, will find this same exercise rather difficult, if not impossible.

        Say “PINK ELEPHANT”.

        In order for you to do so, you have to first read it, then think it, then say it. Your mind had to interpret the words and transfer them into speech. Other primates cannot do this because they not only lack the vocal chords, but the areas of the brain associated with regulating speech.

        At best, as with ‘Coco’ the ape, you can train a primate to associate a small vocabulary(by comparison) with hand signals or some other such medium to represent said words. They are able to understand and form simple sentences. But they do not have what we have. They cannot talk about complex mathematics, then write them down and draw pictures.

        We evolved on the same planet as the rest of the animal kingdom, including milder climates with winters, yet we lack fur, thus unlike every other land mammal.

        There are a number of these examples which separate humans from the rest of the animal kingdom, and other primates too. We come from a different evolutionary path.

        There are fossils and skeletal remains of primates dating back to much further than any remains of modern man. Based on this evidence, evolutionary science suggests that primates have been on earth for a very long time, and that humans evolved from them.

        Okay, so how did we get all those things they didn’t? Where did they come from? Why are we not more like them if we developed from them?

        If we humans branched off from primates, and evolved over a long enough period to have developed such differences, …where is the path? Where is the evidence? Why is there not an archeological trail of humans going back much further? It is like we simply ‘popped up’

        And whats with RH- blood? What is with the genetics sequences that apparently are unlike anything found outside of humans? Why do some humans have extra tailbones? Why the pregnancy rejection issues? What other primate does that?

        Where is the link? Still missing?

        And what the hell is a platypus? Explain that in terms of evolution.

        *scratches head*

        Did man do that?

        The bible says that it was “fallen angels/sons of gods” that interbred with mankind, ..which resembles other such ancient recordings also telling of sky people or whatever.
        Ya know, …whoever said “let US make man in OUR image and likeness”


        Here we have all these things in various sciences and religions, all pointing to something influencing life on Earth hundreds of thousands, or perhaps even a million or so years ago.

        What/who/when was it?

        I mean, it is almost like when you put it together in terms of seeing things from a broad perspective, it is history and science slapping us in the face, telling us that something came here, made a difference, then left…and that we are a big part of it.

        But as I have said before, …who am I to say? I am just a student in all of this.

        • “whoever said “let US make man in OUR image and likeness” I can answer this one. The reason it is said this way is because of the Triune Godhead, or rather The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 3 in 1. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have been in existence for always, not just since Jesus came to Earth.

          But I will stop there. I don’t care to get into a Biblical argument with those who don’t believe anyway.

          • Gmanfortruth says:

            Rebel, have you seen the movie “Isaiah 9:10 Judgment” ?

          • Rebel,

            I read the book of Genesis, and I am completely fascinated.

            It tells a story that is much older than so many realize. A same or similar story can be found in other religions and cultures and ancient civilizations way way back.

            I see it it as something valuable as it is something that was important enough to be passed down from so long ago, and on such a wide scale.

            It means something.

            I also keep in mind that it is from the perspective of someone[s] who may describe something like a fighter jet as a ‘fire pooping thunder eagle’, and thus I try to keep an open mind to interpretation. But I believe there is a truth in there.

            Admittedly, I indeed get very frustrated with modern fundamentalist Christianity.

            I believe that Jesus was a real guy. I believe he was going around doing amazing things, teaching some really valuable lessons, sharing awesome knowledge.. I bet Jesus was a super cool guy.

            I agree with a lot of what the message in the bible is about. I just have a difficult time understanding, and therefore agreeing with, the fundamental premise of popular evangelical Christianity.

            My frustration comes from what I see as a dismissal and rejection of reason and understanding for sake of fear, hype, politicization, conquest, bigotry and cult-like behavior that is anything but Christ-like.

            For this reason, there is a sizable portion of the Christian population that, frankly, scares the hell outta me. So, don’t think I hate Christians or am anti-christian for sake of some of my rants. It’s not really like that.

            I am trying to understand as best I can, and apply whatever reasoning I am able.

            • I didn’t think you were Anti-Christian. I was just explaining the one part that I could.

              I am a Southern Baptist. Some would call US a Fundamentalist Religion, but not me. I simply believe what the Bible says. Every Chapter and Verse. You have to remember that the Old Testament is basically a story of Jesus Ancestral Lineage. From Adam to Jesus is a long story and it is also the story of the Jewish people.

              Everything that has happened to the Jews has been foretold in the Bible, including the reason that the Arabs and Jews have always been enemies and always will be. No matter how much the rest of the World wishes it weren’t so.

              I, as a Christian, am a long way from perfect. I am a long way from perfect as a human being also. I just wish others would understand that Christians are not perfect and no less human than any other person.

              I am glad to see that people like you are at least trying to understand. Understanding and Reason is all any of us can use.

              • ” I didn’t think you were Anti-Christian. I was just explaining the one part that I could. ”

                I suppose I am also taking an opportunity to explain myself, as I have been a little harsh toward Christianity at times. I appreciate it.

                ” I am a Southern Baptist. Some would call US a Fundamentalist Religion, but not me. I simply believe what the Bible says. Every Chapter and Verse. ”

                Right on. It’s about the book, not necessarily the preacher.

                ” I, as a Christian, am a long way from perfect. I am a long way from perfect as a human being also. I just wish others would understand that Christians are not perfect and no less human than any other person ”

                I readily admit what a turd I am. We all have our weaknesses and random acts of stupidity. That’s part of what makes us human. Who IS perfect? We are not ‘gods’.

                Venus rises and sets in an arch shaped path very similar to the arch in St.Louis. It does so in the eastern sky for part of the year, and the western sky the other. Because it rises before the sun, and is so bright like a star, it was labeled as “the bearer of light”, “sun of the dawn”, “the morning star” …or “eastern star”

                When you consider the Judaic roots and influence of Paganism, it is no wonder that astrological references would find their way into the bible. Thus it makes good sense to suggest that ” How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! ” is somehow a description of Venus setting.

                There are many such references in the bible. And there are some people that have worked so far into a frenzy over what they were told, they will reject anything other than verses like Isaiah 14:12 as describing the son of Satan. It isn’t so much about what it means, but rather that there is a lack of reason in the approach to understanding.

                This is scary to me.

                It isn’t their fault really. I see most as victims of circumstance, …lost sheep being indoctrinated with fear. But that is an example of what I meant above.

                ” Everything that has happened to the Jews has been foretold in the Bible, including the reason that the Arabs and Jews have always been enemies and always will be. No matter how much the rest of the World wishes it weren’t so ”

                I dunno. Things are changing in the ME. Take Iran for example:

                The largest percentage of their population is around 40 yrs or younger. They want to live a good life just like everyone else. They want to live in a more free and open society and worship Allah without the hangups of previous generations. They are just as sick of the political nonsense and wars as you are. And they are pressuring their government to make it happen.

                There is new leadership, and they are evolving. It’ll eventually happen because Youth is King.

                If they get nukes, I think they will handle it like the rest of those who have joined the big boys nuclear club. People don’t talk as much trash when it is serious. M.A.D. has a certain ‘calming’ effect. 😉 Who knows? …One day they may very well be sitting side by side with Israel voting on someone else getting the bomb.

  18. This is Mathius before coffee…..after coffee….

  19. @ BF……do you think that trade will go back to pre WWI ? I do not see how it could, given today’s time. I do not even see the survival mode kicking in…..I see black market trade developing to replace what is there now…..but I do not see the cooperation any longer. I think that the existing mindset is too strong.

    I offer the demise of Eastern Europe from the old Soviet Union. The black market is the primary trade right now, and that part of the world is more stagnant than ever before….given my experience in that part of the world post cold war.

    No cohesion….infrastructure disintegrating… ethnic divisions as strong and divisive as 400 years ago……

  20. Gmanfortruth says:

    Plainly, Our many discussions on the Connecticut gun law issue FINALLY made it on FOX early this morning. Between 7 and 8 est, they did an interview with someone, I didn’t pay much attention and don’t know if the subject has been brought up since. I’ll make a call now, that the State will back down and there will not be any confiscation of charges filed over the failure to comply with the new law. I think the pushback has been strong enough that the State backs down. What say you my friend?

  21. Gmanfortruth says:
  22. Gmanfortruth says:

    Can anyone explain how all the amnesty talk about immigrants and this story shows the true goal of the Nazi Progressives?

  23. Gmanfortruth says:

    @Mathius, Abortion is about population control, period. When “life” begins isn’t an issue:

  24. Miss Sarah shouldn’t sweat this. Who gives a Rat’s Ass what The Establishment RNC thinks? They are the reason the GOP can’t pull their own heads out of their asses and can’t win an Election. Until they wake up and remember the FACT that the Conservative, do what the ‘We the People’ want us to do, small government faction is the real election winners in the Party; it will be a another tough election year. So ‘Piss on ’em’ Sarah! 😉

  25. Check out this article on how the Isrealis defend their Nation when it is in danger from their ‘peaceloving, non-aggressive neightbors’ the Palestinians.

    • Black Flag® says:

      Oh, christ, give me a break.

      A nuclear armed nation afraid of a bunch of ragtag Palestinians who have no army, no navy and no air force.

      Jezus… what crap.

      • No, no, flag… don’t you know Israel can do no wrong! And the Palestinians are a bunch of radical jihaddi extremists who live for murdering Jewish babies. Of course – they can’t help it – they’re Muslim and it’s a fundamentally violent religion, unlike Judaism or Christianity which are fundamentally religions of peace, love, and tolerance.

        .. great .. now people are looking at me wondering why I’m laughing so hard at my desk.

      • Well, If I knew a rocket was ready to be fired at me, I’d do something about it too. I’m sure you guys would too.

        • Yes, Anita, I would.

          But I might also take a moment to consider why, exactly, that rocket was being pointed at me in the first place.

          • And while you’re thinking, they blasted you. Care to share what you were thinking at the time?

            • I think there is a cycle of violence. The Israelis have superior power and so use more “legitimate” means of fighting – soldiers, checkpoints, walls, aircraft. The Palestinians have inferior power and fight an asymetric war using what little they have at their disposal – IEDs, suicide bombs, political theater.

              You can’t really ask “who is to blame,” because they will both just point the finger at each other. “They stole our land!” “It was our land first.” “God says its ours!” “No, God says it’s ours!” .. and so forth.

              Being so much more powerful, Israel is given to acts of… shall we call it wanton disregard for the feelings of the Palestinians. For example, they have a blatant class system in Israel which favors Jews. They build illegal settlements encroaching deeper and deeper into disputed territory. Et cetera, et cetera. Periodically, they’ll just bomb the daylights out of the Palestinians with impunity. They elected Ariel Sharon as Prime Minister after his direct role in the Sabra and Shantilla (sp?) massacre – think about that one for a second: how would you feel about a country who elected a war criminal responsible for the deaths of 3,000+ unarmed refugees. I could go on and on. But, of course, you have to top it off with the perennial favorite: they stole the land from the Palestinians.

              I won’t go into the flip side. I’m sure you’re very well versed in the ways Israel has been attacked and the evil done by the Palestinians. Suffice it to say, there is plenty of blame on all sides. But, of course, Israel tends to be much better at public relations.


              So why are they attacking me? Because we’re in a chicken-and-the-egg cycle of violence. Round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows. But I do know this: there will never be peace so long as both sides insist on being viewed as blameless victims.

              • That’s pretty fair. But I’ll raise your Sharon with an Arafat, not a friendly terrorist in his day.

              • plainlyspoken says:

                I think there is a cycle of violence. The Israelis Americans have superior power and so use more “legitimate” means of fighting – soldiers, checkpoints, walls, aircraft. The Palestinians Taliban have inferior power and fight an asymetric war using what little they have at their disposal – IEDs, suicide bombs, political theater.

                Hmmmm…so true.

              • Darn right it’s true. Difference is..we didn’t pick the fight with the Taliban.

              • Mathius™ says:

                And PlainlySpoke wins the SUFA Award for Excellence in the Filed of Excellence in Comment Writing!

              • plainlyspoken says:

                So you blame the Taliban government of Afghanistan for picking the fight? Really? They had no legitimate right to refuse to turn over bin Laden? Golly, how many more countries are picking fights by making choices by exercise their governmental power and philosophy?

                The US certainly DID pick this fight and acted in violation of the sovereignty of a nation in doing so. The US Government “legitimized” their action by passing a law that said they could if they wanted to. Amazing how arrogant the USA is when it is decided “we” are right.

                What’s next, pass a law that says we can use military force to get a criminal back from France?

              • Sure. Pick any random point to start arguing from to justify your position. The Taliban had been plucking away at us for many years even before they hit the twin towers. Once they came on our’s WAR. Shit happens during war.

              • As according to my theory of Hegemony, it will only stop when the hegemonic power stops.

                The hegemonic power always ACTS.
                The weaker power always REACTS.

                The weaker power must always REACT to the actions of the hegemonic power, otherwise it will surrender. If surrender is not an option, the weaker power must always REACT to the actions of the hegemonic power.

                Until the hegemonic power withdraws from action, the cycle will continue. It is and always is up to the hegemonic power.

              • Dale A. Albrecht says:

                “Extraordinary Rendition” ring a bell.

    • Who the H-E-double hockeysticks said anything about them being afraid? I don’t recall that in my post! I just said that was how they deal with terror cells in their neck of the woods. Take from it what you appear to want.

  26. Gmanfortruth says:
  27. Gmanfortruth says:

    More on the Connecticut gun issue:

    Now the Second Amendment organization Connecticut Carry is calling on authorities to “enforce the tyranny they passed or repeal it entirely.”

    “State officials look down the barrel of the laws that they created, and it is very probably that they now tremble as they rethink the extremity of their folly. Connecticut Carry calls on every State official, every Senator, and every Representative, to make the singular decision: Either enforce the laws as they are written and let us fight it out in court, or else repeal the 2013 Gun Ban in its entirety,” states the group’s press release.

    In calling the state’s bluff, gun owners are setting the stage for a showdown that could sink the draconian law and set the precedent for the rest of the country.

  28. plainlyspoken says:

    40 USAF Cadets at the Air Force Academy are under investigation for allegedly cheating on a chemistry test. Must be the next group of nuclear missile officers in training!

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Why are the academy students held to a different level of ethical behavior than any other government employee/politician etc? The cheating, trimming, obfuscating I experienced in business always made me wish I had stayed in the military. But why should this behavior not spill over into the academy population in this day and age. It’s the norm today.

  29. Say what you will about Barack Obama, but George W Bush would never have stood for Russian aggression in the Ukraine! He would have invaded Iran by now.

    • Of course he would have!

      Look, Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years.

      Reagan promised Gorbachev that the West would not move East into the freed nations of the Iron Curtain in return for Russia not to intervene in their indigenous freedom movements.

      Russia kept its promise – the West did not.

      To continue to push East threatens global peace.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        And how is it you think we “moved into” those nations freed from the Iron Curtain?

        Last I checked we did not invade any of them. Was I sleeping when that happened?

        • There are many ways to “invade” a country..

          • Just A Citizen says:

            That is true, if you are looking for any excuse to accuse the USA of bad things, in order to rationalize your own aggression.

            There are two nations in this world that have NEVER joined the rest of the world in trying to create a lasting peace. Those are Russia and China.

            It is about time your crowd wakes up to that reality. Even with all our warts, the world has been a better place thanks to USA power.

            Now with that said, then is then and now is now. Where it goes from here is uncertain.

          • Name them…..

        • Offered membership into NATO – expressly opposite to the promise made to the Russians.

          • Dale A. Albrecht says:

            Nato forces pushed all the way up through former soviet bloc countries up to the borders of the former soviet union proper. And ongoing plans for missile systems plans downscaled but moving forward. Specifically against agreements made.

      • Shhhh…

        People don’t like it when you point out that the US isn’t always perfectly innocent. You’ll make the natives restless.

        Didn’t you know? We’re the good guys!

        • I’d rather we be #1 than Russia. Though I am enjoying watching Vlad slap Obama around.

          • Mathius™ says:

            I’d rather we be #1 than Russia.
            We are #1. Russia is nothing compared to us in terms of military prowess, economy, population size, et cetera. It’s a pissing contest for no reason other than to have a pissing contest. They’re not even close and everyone knows it. The only question is how much restraint we choose to show.

            Though I am enjoying watching Vlad slap Obama around.
            That’s wonderful that you enjoy watching a country get invaded and the world-stability be compromised and oil prices spike so that you can see the President look bad. I’m glad you have your priorities straight. This comment is right up there with the people who cheered when the US wasn’t awarded the 2014 Olympics because they thought Obama looked bad as a result. Yea! Screw the US, screw Ukraine, screw the world! Obama is getting slapped around, WAHOO!

            Though I am enjoying watching Vlad slap Obama around.
            And, anyway, I don’t think this is the case. Obama tends to play the long game. If I had to guess, I’d say that he’s giving Putin enough rope to hang himself while desperately trying to avoid miring us in (another) proxy war.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              When are you going to take off your rose colored glasses and recognize that Obama does not play the long game.

              He simply takes credit for whatever happens.

              His “long game” consists of doing little while talking very, very, much………. about himself.

              • Mathius™ says:

                When are you going to take off your rose colored glasses and recognize that Obama does not play the long game.

                Just as soon as he stops playing the long game.

                He simply takes credit for whatever happens.

                Which, oddly, seems to keep breaking his way after a while.

            • He’s choosing alright! Choosing to purge his military down to less than peace time..don’t know what word here.. level? Much less..still don’t know the words..weakening? the rules of engagement..which then leaves the troop morale where?

              Obama deserves all the criticism he gets. His red lines show weakness,and the world watches and laughs.

              • Mathius™ says:

                We do not need such a huge military. Do you have any idea how expensive that is to maintain?

                And, all the while, people are griping about the debt and deficit. And, at the same time, schools are being squeezed. We have our priorities ass-backward and I, for one, am perfectly happy to shrink our military.

                We spend more than the next FOURTEEN countries combined. And you’re going to gripe when it’s scaled back?

      • At BF…, in your way of thinking along these lines, because the Ukraine had been part of Russia at one time, you are justifying the Russian invasion? Does this not contradict your beliefs in hegemony that you you despise?

        • Just A Citizen says:

          And it ignores the fact that it was also NOT part of Russia at one time. I do wonder how he SELECTS his point in history to use as his defense.

          • “And it ignores the fact that it was also NOT part of Russia at one time. ”


            The Ukraine is the foundation of Russia and its heartland – Ukraine is the cradle of Russian civilization. It has ALWAYS been Russian in one manner or another – and part of the Greater Russian Empire LONGER THEN THE US HAS BEEN A NATION.

            So such comment above is sheer ignorance.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              “The country is home to 44.6 million people,[3] 77.8% of whom are ethnic Ukrainians, with sizable minorities of ethnic Russians (17%), Belarusians, Tatars and Romanians. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine; its alphabet is Cyrillic. Russian is also widely spoken. The dominant religion in the country is Eastern Orthodox Christianity, which has strongly influenced Ukrainian architecture, literature and music.”

              I suppose Wiki is just filled with “sheer ignorance”!

              So now you only want to go back as far as the “Greater Russian Empire”. Why is that?

              Is it inconvenient to go farther back in time? Or how about moving forward in time, to when the Ukrainians fought for their independence and when the current area divided its favor due to its differing heritages.

              • Your only argument is utterly obtuse. The fact remain unmoved.

                The fact is the eastern part of Ukraine wants to be aligned with Russia, the west aligned with Europe.

                There is no national interest whatsoever for the US. Period.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              You are arguing with yourself.

              Now answer the Colonel’s question.

              You rationalizing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine just because there are people in the Ukraine with Russian ancestors or because it was once part of the Russian empire?

              Or are you instead going to rationalize this as a “reasoned” response to the USA being friendly with Russia’s neighbors??

        • Colonel, how you feel about spinning off Hawaii and Alaska? There are good reasons to do both. as I asked yesterday I wonder how we would feel if the Russians destabilized the legitimate Mexican Government, encouraged riots and mobs in the streets, forced the Mexican President to seek refuge in the US and then recognized the new “provisional” government while sending them money with the promise of weapons and possibly “trainers”.

          I don’t think I am too far afield on this. We are way wrong on what we are doing and what we did.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            What makes you think they have not tried. Or the Chinese for that matter.

            Now explain HOW the USA “DESTABILIZED” the Govt of Ukraine.

            • Well, acknowledging the legitimacy of street rabble for openers and I am sure (and not naive) that there were back channel communications going on. The Wiki Leaks and Snowden say it all. Out in the open for once. Bunch of GD cowboys out there stirring up the pot.

              If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a damn duck!

              I love this country to the depths of my soul and I want it to survive and thrive for my grandchildren. I remember tears rolling down my face when I heard and saw Reagan giving the speech about Star Wars and about his hopes for the future with a free Russia. Something about no child having to go to bed in fear of nuclear war. The image that keeps popping into my head when these things happen is:

          • Mathius™ says:


            Stephen is making an excellent point and has his head screwed on the right way! See? He’s seeing things from more than just the myopic US-centric worldview. Someone give that man a round of applause.

            SK, I’m sorry that I have already given out today’s SUFA Award for Excellence in the Filed of Excellence in Comment Writing to PlainlySpoken. Please take comfort in the knowledge that you are every big as deserving.

          • Spin off Hawaii and Alaska….I could care less. Do not put on your blinders and I lived through DEFCON 2….we went through the “nuclear” drills in schools…..we have seen the expansionists of the 60’s……

            I have been waiting for the destabilization of Mexico for years……it is slowly being done now…BUT……does that justify our movement into Mexico to take it over? I am laughing my ass off right now because this was predicted three years ago….the Crimea and Ukraine.

            Do not misread me……I do not give a scooby doo damn what is happening in the Ukraine nor the Crimea……I get tickled at the US bashing that goes on here. Hegemony is hegemony no matter who does it. It seems to be justified when China does it and when Russia does it because the US did it? If the US has been wrong…that makes it ok? Reality is what it is…..reality. Russia is somehow justified under a “self defense” rule but the US is not.

            One of the greatest weapons to use is hegemony….the creation of super powers comes from hegemony. What is laughable to me…is the kumbaya attitude that everybody thinks should prevail. IT WILL NEVER DO THAT……NEVER !!!!!

            You worry about a new cold war? Too late. It has already started. I get even more tickled at the stupidity of thinking that the world will react with something called the United Nations….they are about as existent as the tooth fairy.

            There is no one to check Putin… I do not want you or anybody else belly aching three years from now when a revitalized curtain goes up again. Russia has learned well…Putin knows that sanctions will not work. They will not work because he has sanctions of his own now that can cripple us and the banking system. Russian adopted the US dollar as a reserve currency. Russia has bought over 200 BILLION in Treasuries and US DEBT…..holy shit… you think he will sit still on this? He knows that the key to Europe is economic…he does not need nukes. Our debt under this sham of a President has checkmated us anyway.

            So…cool a mundo…..let’s sit back….take care of ourselves…..and let the world do their thing. But when we do that, we better have a 1.5 million man military….we will need it.

            • We have been to Mexico before I seem to remember and been in Russia too. You forget Colonel that this country is not being run by you and I (I’d be happy to take VP on your ticket by the way. What balance, New Jersey (formerly NY) and Texas!).

              By and large I agree with how you think it will play out. My point is that it did not have to be that way. You are also, I think, giving short shrift to that place in the center of Europe, Germany. The hegemony they have established financially over the EU bears acknowledgement. Wonder how much natural gas can be extracted in Western Europe or Eastern Europe for that matter. Where there is coal there is gas. Western Europe theoretically could be energy independent too. have to wait for our resident geology experts to chime in on that though.


            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              Just look how fast the EU ran to the UN and US forces when Qadaffi threatened the oil card if they interferred on behalf of the rebels. Russia holds Europe by the gonads with natural gas. They and the west will bluster but will have no choice but to back down. Europe’s economy will collapse faster than Russia’s will…….just heard Obama speak and now instead of categorically stating that Russia violated international law, but now is saying that he BELIEVES that they violated international law. That is a fundimental change in rhetoric.

        • I don’t justify anything.

          The fact is over half of the people living in the Ukraine are ethnic Russian – 80% of the Crimean population is ethnic Russian. The number of “Americans” in either place approaches 0%.

          To believe that Russia does not have a significant interest there is naive.

          To believe the US has a significant interest there is naive.

          • Mathius™ says:

            You had me nodding along right up to the end:

            To believe the US has a significant interest there is naive.

            Can you elaborate on this one. I think we certainly do have an “interest” in the Ukraine. A lot of oil flows through there at the very least, no?

            • So?

              Not one drop flows to the US.

              • Mathius™ says:

                Perhaps not, but it does go to our allies and trading partners in Europe. If something were to happen to Europe’s oil supply, you can bet the shock waves would be readily felt on our shores.

              • Not really – and minor if such.

                Most of the oil for the US comes from indigenous sources, then Canada, Venezuela and Mexico.

                Second, Russia will ensure oil flows regardless. It gets money from Europe, which it vitally needs. No war will stop this.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            The country is home to 44.6 million people,[3] 77.8% of whom are ethnic Ukrainians, with sizable minorities of ethnic Russians (17%), Belarusians, Tatars and Romanians. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine; its alphabet is Cyrillic. Russian is also widely spoken. The dominant religion in the country is Eastern Orthodox Christianity, which has strongly influenced Ukrainian architecture, literature and music.

    • This is a tough one. NATO was originally a check on the expansionist Soviet Union post WW 2. The cold war went on and on and finally ended when we broke the bank. I saw Reagan as being truly interested in future cooperation between Russia and the Us. I saw the Bushes and Clinton as maintaining the cold war mentality.

      Expanding NATO at that time was a dumb idea, Putting missiles in Poland was a dumb idea, supporting that psycho in Georgia and encouraging him to tweak Russia’s nose was a dumb idea, supporting anti-democratic elements in the Ukraine against a legally elected democratic government is a dumb idea.

      It does not seem to matter much whether I listen to the left media or the right. Everybody seems to want to return to the Cold War. Perhaps these people will only be happy when they have their nuclear Armageddon. I think we should all sit back and watch “Dr. Strangelove” again. After that we can catch “Fail Safe”. Maybe the kids who weren’t around for October ’62 and DEFCON 2, yes, we were at DEFCON 2 ought to read up on it. Had a friend who was in the SAGE building at McGuire AFB that October. As Gen. Schwartzkopf said of minefields, “It was intense, very intense”.

      The Crimea is Russia. Anybody ever heard of the Crimean War? “Half a league, half a league, half a league on, into the valley of death rode the 600.” “Theirs not to reason why, theirs not to make reply, theirs but to do or die. ”

      When the Soviet Union broke up, I wondered exactly why Gorbachev allowed it to go the way it did. The Russian claim on the Crimea and elsewhere is pretty clear from a geopolitical and historical point of view. I saw trouble brewing then and here it is.

      Kerry arriving today with his billion dollars makes him a pimp. The “illegitimate government” of the Ukraine taking it makes them whores.

      • You said……….” I wondered exactly why Gorbachev allowed it to go the way it did.”

        Answer….nothing more than money. Russia was broke.

        • Yea, but giving up the Crimea, that was just plain stupid. I know the deal was that they, the Ukrainians, would be “neutral” and allow the ports to remain Russian but our actions (and intentions) in the region have made that a joke.

          Want to have some nightmares? Think Kalingrad, a piece of the Russia on the Baltic, home of the Baltic fleet, separated from Russia and surrounded by NATO members Poland and Lithuania.

          Bet you dollars to tacos or whatever that somehow we will get mixed up in that one too. I can hear the air raid sirens now.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        I don’t get your constant accusation that the US was behind the public demonstrations against Ukraine’s President?

        There were demonstrations in response to action he took against the wishes of many of the population. He used deadly force against innocent people. Yet you and others claim they are just a bunch of Fascists.

        Why is the current Govt illegitimate. Apparently their system allowed them to do what they did. Would our Govt be illegitimate if Congress IMPEACHED the President?

        • They have a constitution. They have a parliamentary system of government with a legal and proper way to change their government. There were riots in the streets. This is legitimate? Anybody out there see a poll of the Ukrainian people on what led up to this mess? I didn’t. Oh, throw a Molotov cocktail at me when I have an AK and you will probably get shot too. Seems to me the firecrackers at Kent State, a lot less dangerous, led to a similar outcome.

          Better answer, if I put several hundred thousand people in the streets of Washington and rioted, would that make Obama running for his life a legitimate change of government?

          I am not a happy camper with our treatment of Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The trash talk leading up to the Olympics should have got everyone attention. The west wanted the games to fail, they wanted massive visible repression, they wanted suicide attacks. They were practically cheer leading them, on, left and right.

          • Mathius™ says:

            The west wanted the games to fail, they wanted massive visible repression, they wanted suicide attacks. They were practically cheer leading them, on, left and right.


            Wow, you are on a roll today. Is there something in the water? I’m not used to seeing SUFA so on point.

          • Stephen… sounds like to me, that you are referring to the cold war tactics of the CIA and destabilization….you really think that happened in the Ukraine?

            • With these hooples running the show? Anything is possible. Revisit that Kalingrad thing I mentioned above. Can’t keep everything running in my mind constantly but I totally forgot that we, that’s us that’s the US, allowed Poland and Lithuania to join NATO and thereby surround the Goddamned Russian Baltic fleet! What the hell would Alfred Mahan say about that? Or for that matter Churchill as First Lord of the Admiralty.


              The more I look at the ramifications of this stuff, the more I see what is in Putin’s heart if not his mind. I’d actually like to hear somebody interview Gorbachev out in California. See what he thinks the “deal” was with Reagan/Bush 1.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Let me remind you that the same “trash” talk about the Olympics occurred over the Chinese games as well. And there was GOOD reason for some of it.

            However, I do not know what you are talking about on this. I saw a few stories but certainly not some orchestrated effort worthy of accusing us of “wanting the games to fail”.

            Where do you get this from??

            You still have not addressed the HOW did we cause this problem in Ukraine.

            You know, one could also accuse Russia of “interference” when it promised a great “DEAL” if their guy won the general election.

            So we should not have allowed FREE countries with their own Democratically Elected Officials to join NATO??

            Wouldn’t that have consisted of INTERFEREING with their Govt??

            • Maybe I watched more news than you did. The terrorist attacks and bombings prior to the games, even though they were far away were constantly played up. There were the “reports” of the Russians rounding up the dissidents all over the media and more than one commentator talking about how the security services would “disappear” them. Once the games started we were treated to snarky laughs over the incompetence of the Russians, their bad food, bad water and bad plumbing.

              Don’t you remember anyone advising visitors, especially Americans to stay away and not go?

              • This from the United States of America where they built the 9/11 memorial/museum at the WTC site and forgot to include restrooms. Talk about a world class Charlie Foxtrot!

              • Just A Citizen says:


                I saw those various reports. And many were justified. There was in fact “international” concern over the facilities being ready on time. Just as there was in China.

                Perhaps the IOOC should stop granting games to Communist countries if they require so much supervision.

                I did see some claims about Americans staying away but nothing that would cause me to think it was a “western” desire to cause the games to fail.

                As I said, China go much of the same type of criticism. It did not cause them to invade Taiwan right after the games.

              • First of all stop saying Communist. That is part of the problem. I still have friends who believe that the CP USSR merely went underground and Stalin and Lenin are still pulling the strings. That is the cold war mentality and as I have said, the Russkies are paranoid they believe that we are trying to box them in and guess what, we are trying to box them in! They have long memories and remember the western incursion after WW 1.

                I have seen no one apologize for the negative pre olympic comments or admit they were wrong. What we were was insulting, something we are very good at.

  30. Just A Citizen says:
    • plainlyspoken says:

      I read this story this morning online. Here’s my response to this young lady – 🙄 🙄

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    I see the “media” is still hung up on the “polar vortex”. IDIOTS……… they exemplify what that word was invented for.

  32. You cannot make this stuff up…..Biden was just on national TV saying that there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine? That the “troops” that are in unmarked uniforms are “Nazis” and “Rebels”? Russia has just blockaded the strait….is in the process of blockading all Ukrainian ports…and paratroops are already dropping in the Northern Ukraine region…

    You gotta love it.

  33. Mathius…..if I am not mistaken, you are blaming the US for the Russian invasion of the Ukraine? Do I have this correct?

  34. SHOCK……..Obama coming out with yet another delay in Obamacare…… is ok to have insurance now that does not meet the standards of Obamacare….until 2015. What a fake.

    • And of course the Sheeple will not be able to see past 2015. they will keep control of the Senate and in 2016 Hillary will take the White House. We will go on getting the shaft by the MINORITY Liberals and the horsedookey will just keep on and on!

      I don’t really think it would make a lot of difference if the GOP won everything. I guess I’m just wishing it would. 😉

  35. plainlyspoken says:

    Anita, down here.

    Sure. Pick any random point to start arguing from to justify your position. The Taliban had been plucking away at us for many years even before they hit the twin towers. Once they came on our’s WAR. Shit happens during war.

    Uh, they did? I could of sworn it was a bunch of terrorists, none of whom were Afghanis. Lets see , Saudia Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, were the countries these terrorists came from. Funny how you justify attacking another nation.

    Is Pakistan on your list? Or are you happy that the US sticks to using unmanned drones to violating independent nations to assassinate people you don’t like – including US citizens?

    Show me how the Taliban government of Afghanistan is responsible? You can’t.

    • Show me how the war on terror is any kind of conventional war. And besides, we’re not at war with the Afghanistan, and I’m pretty sure they gave us the OK to set up shop in their country.

      • plainlyspoken says:

        1. The “war” on terror is a joke. Military force to handle criminal behavior.
        2. Not the government we “installed”, no.
        3. They gave us the ok to invade them? That has to be one of the most ignorant (definition: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated) comments I have ever heard. You think Bush called and asked “mother may I”? Have they legalized recreational marijuana in Michigan while I slept?

        • Come on Plainly, you’re being obtuse. (lol, never called anyone that before). We didn’t invade Afghanistan and you know it. You also know that we would not physically be in that country for a decade if we were not welcome.

        • Mathius™ says:

          1. The “war” on terror is a joke. Military force to handle criminal behavior.

          And the hits just keep on coming!

          Plainly, BULLSEYE!

          1,000 Mathius Points to you, sir.

          2. Not the government we “installed”, no.

          And again! We knock over their ant hill, install a new ruler, and he then “invites us in.” And somehow this is not us occupying a foreign country, but rather acting as invited guests helping with peace-keeping. I love it.

          • 1,000 Mathius points are about as useful as the Ruble…..ask DPM.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Why you complaining about us going after Afghanistan??

            It was a very “liberal” or “progressive” move. Right up there with all other left wing wars against those who oppress their citizens. How was it different than getting mixed up in the Balkans?

            Just because we used ground troops instead of only bombing their asses into oblivion??

            You seem to forget that Afghanistan was the “GOOD WAR” according to Mr. Obama himself. Along with Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the Democrat party chatter boxes.

            • Mathius™ says:

              It was a very “liberal” or “progressive” move. Right up there with all other left wing wars against those who oppress their citizens.

              It wasn’t a “humanitarian” effort. It was an act of vengeance. Payback, if you will.

              I will never condone such actions.

              The irony here is that I might have been willing to support the Iraq war if it had been sold as a humanitarian effort to get rid of the guy who had been gassing his citizens. But the nonsense about his supporting Al Queda and having “weapons of mass destruction related programs” was a non-starter for me.

              Same with Afghanistan (separate from 9/11) – if someone had said, we’re going to liberate people in this poor oppressed country, I might have been willing to get behind that – but the idea that we needed to.. well who knows.. something something 9/11 harboring terrorists.. something something.. well that’s a non-starter for me as well.

              You seem to forget that Afghanistan was the “GOOD WAR” according to Mr. Obama himself.

              I don’t care if it was called the “good war” by the pope himself. Hell, I don’t care if God himself came down from on high to bless the war. (A) There is no such thing as a “good” war and (B) Afghanistan wasn’t even a good war by the standards of wars – this wasn’t “stopping the Nazis” – this was retribution. This was the homicidal rage of 300 million pissed off citizens with the most powerful military the world has ever known.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                I think you do not understand WHY.

                How strange though that you would not support a war of vengeance against an attack but you would support our children dying to free someone who doesn’t give a pinch of shit about the USA or its citizens.

                I wonder if all those girls now attending schools in Afghanistan would agree with our view entirely.

              • Mathius™ says:

                I wonder if all those girls now attending schools in Afghanistan would agree with our view entirely.

                Any freedom afforded to girls now attending schools in Afghanistan is purely incidental. We invaded in order to vent our rage with brimstone and hellfire. That we decided – after the fact – to set up a nicer government does not obviate the first point.

              • plainlyspoken says:

                This was the homicidal rage of 300 million pissed off citizens with the most powerful military the world has ever known.

                ummm, no 2,999,999.

              • plainlyspoken says:

                crap, screwed that up. 299,999,999!

              • JAC, just see how long that schooling lasts after we leave. That’s where Matt is wrong, people gotta want to be free and a culture stuck in the 7th century or older is not likely to even get the concept.

              • Mathius™ says:


                just see how long that schooling lasts after we leave.

                That’s where Matt is wrong, people gotta want to be free and a culture stuck in the 7th century or older is not likely to even get the concept.
                I don’t think I have it wrong at all – I agree 100%.

                But, insofar as anything might be called a “good war,” a war to help free people would be it. Of course, to keep themselves free, they’d have to want it and fight for it themselves – it’s not something that can be externally imposed (how’s that for irony – “forced to be free”).

    • Mathius™ says:

      The main complaint seems to be that they didn’t turn over OBL.

      Bush still would have attacked Iraq though – that was just on his to-do list – nothing at all to do with 9/11.

      But, of course, we’re not going to attack SA (too dependent on their oil), UAE (too western-friendly), Pakistan (nukes). Primarily though, instead of calling for calm and perspective, Bush chose to stoke the fires and beat the war-drum. So we were going to f**k up someone – Afghanistan just drew the short straw.

      • Bush still would have attacked Iraq though – that was just on his to-do list – nothing at all to do with 9/11.


        • Just A Citizen says:


          Good morning Sir. I see you have ice to contend with in getting to the polling place today.

          Bush’s rationalization for a “pre-emptive” attack on Iraq is the domino that started all of this, in my humble opinion. It has now been played several times by the Russians and once by China, I think.

          That is the pre-emptive move/invasion/attack/whatever to “prevent” future adverse action against “Russia/China/insert nation here”.

          This move by Bush removed the International “common law” constraint that the major powers had come to accept. Largely due to the USA interventions and pressure.

          While the Bush Administration may have been honest in their fear of WMD’s in Iraq, using the “pre-emptive” strike doctrine was the BIGGEST BLUNDER of the Bush Administration. They lacked the “clear and present danger” justification that would have prevented Putin and others to use the same excuse later.

          By the way, I am getting a kick out of you slapping some reality on table. We often forget that there are real world implications to a Defense Only policy. One that I support, but I recognize the risks it creates. At least over the next 10 to 30 years.

          • Good day, sir…..cold….but the polls are humming AND WITH PHOTO ID REQUIRED…….regardless of the courts.

            Bush was wrong…..Kennedy was wrong….Clinton was wrong…Obama is wrong….we never learn, do we.

            The most stupid thing that Bush did was Iraq….and even Kuwait. But we do not learn….

            There are realities out there that these youngsters cannot see….they have not been through it…they read Wiki and think that is gospel. Reality is the best teacher.

          • plainlyspoken says:

            We often forget that there are real world implications to a Defense Only policy. One that I support, but I recognize the risks it creates. At least over the next 10 to 30 years.

            I too am fully aware of the risks this would create. Further the cuts that Obama wants to make to the military are much too deep if we want to go to defense only.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              I agree.

              Defense is also not limited to our shore line. It has to include our Shipping. And for the record, I don’t agree that all our troops should be brought home. If Germany will allow us to have a base there then I consider that a forward defensive position. But we should stop using NATO or other groups, or our money, to poke people in the eye.

              The REALY REALLY big question is at what point do we STAND UP for our allies, or do we simply ABANDON them?

              Do we really want Japan to arm itself as needed to defend against China? Is that in the USA’s long term “INTEREST”??

              • plainlyspoken says:

                JAC, we have upheld the integrity of the European nations since WW2. When should they be required to do so on their own? Are you saying there is no other way to stand up for our allies without projecting our military strength around the world? Where does the US draw the line?

                The first item on the agenda should be to clearly define what our national interests are, something we haven’t done well since WW2 either. We support repressive governments until they turn on us, we spend US dollars in crazy sums (1 billion to Ukraine now) for what goal?

              • Just A Citizen says:


                going to the bottom with new thread.

              • False dichotomy.

                Allowing others to chose their own destiny is not abandoning, nor interfering in their choices part of “national security”.

                This propaganda nonsense has been happening since Monroe.

    • Anita. We attacked Afghanistan solely because we believed Osama was there. In your defense, I too, was clamoring for the U.S. to kick their ass. I was furious over 9/11 and had blood in my eyes! I also didn’t keep up with Political realities like I do now.

      Now I do and the blinders are off. The U.S. did a lot of things after 9/11 that we should not have done. Under the cover of our outrage over 9/11. Believe me, I don’t believe Bush was wrong by kicking someone’s ass, I just don’t know if he picked the right asses to stomp. 😉

      But the things the Government did under the pretense of keeping us all safe and secure was WRONG! Invading Afghanistan and then Iraq was not only wrong but USELESS. Yes, we took care of SoDamn Insane, but what did we really accomplish aside from that? People talk about Oil, but it didn’t have jack to do with Oil. How could it possibly have when we not only paid for any we used but also rebuilt their Oil Producing infrastructure at OUR cost? What it mostly had to do with was that Bush was pissed at Saddam’s continuous flaunting his tail at us. He stuck his butt up one too many times!

      I say that we should be in ZERO Nations and stay out of their affairs. My motto is “Trade with all, Alliance with NONE”. Not that it will ever happen of course. See the example of Kerry yakking from Ukraine right this second!

      SIIIGGGHHHH!!!!!! We will never learn!

      • I thought the reason for being in Afghanistan was to dismantle the Taliban camps. I remember Bush saying that Bin Laden was not a priority.

        I agree with the rest of your post.

      • Mathius™ says:

        I was furious over 9/11 and had blood in my eyes! I also didn’t keep up with Political realities like I do now.

        Is it possible that I am the only person in America who responded to 9/11 in a calm and rational manner?

        They knocked down some buildings and killed a few thousand people. Bad, to be sure, but let’s not get our panties in a bunch – more than that die every day of heart disease. Send out some spec ops, drag his a** back to a court and try him like run of the mill street criminal. Don’t execute him (risk making a martyr), but let him rot in prison for the remainder of his (hopefully very long) life. Killing more people isn’t going to change what happened – going to war is only going to make things worse. The entire planet was on our side and instead of gratefully accepting their sympathies, we dragged them into a pointless and interminable war in, of all places, Afghanistan: the graveyard of empires.

        But noooooo.. we had a friggin’ cowboy as President. With us or against us, yeeehhaawww!! Bang the war drums. And everyone, with “blood in their eyes” marched right along with the beat.


        • Just A Citizen says:


          You blaming a “cowboy for a president” reveals your ignorance about how we got there in the first place.

          You also forget that the initial objective was in fact achieved. It was the later carping by the Neo Cons and Democrats that pushed us into “nation building”. That is when the game turned against us. It was not over our initial response.

          As I said weeks ago. Once the Taliban had crossed over to Pakistan we should have simply withdrawn and let the Afghans figure out how to organize themselves.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          P.S. You were NOT the only one looking at this in a more calm and deliberate fashion.

          In fact one of my MOST Conservative friends commented that we would respond in a way that would bankrupt the nation. That Bin Laden and his cronies would win thanks to our own ignorance and hubris.

          • plainlyspoken says:

            I was pissed on 9/11, but not to the point that war was the answer. I wanted the bastards hunted down, captured and extradited to the US to face trial and if the guilty bastards were convicted to have them sit in prison. I saw it then, as I do now, as a criminal matter, not a military one.

        • “They knocked down some buildings and killed a few thousand people. Bad, to be sure, but let’s not get our panties in a bunch – more than that die every day of heart disease.”

          I’m glad to see it was such a calm and rational day for you. But, alas, it was not so for me. You see, you ignored that last part. The part where I said ” I didn’t keep up with the Political Realities like I do now”. But it wouldn’t have mattered that day. The shock and sickness I and millions of others felt on that day was REAL and stunning. Sorry if I wasn’t thinking about what an insignificant event it was to some.

          But I’m awake now! And I can see clearly now, the rain is gone! 🙂

          • Mathius™ says:

            I’m not saying it was insignificant – I’m saying that people lost perspective. 1/100,000th of the population gets killed and everyone loses their minds. That’s a BLIP. It’s not even a blip. Yet everyone reacted as though WWIII had started.

            And a big part of the reason for that was that the President hit the National PANIC button rather than calling for sanity. He beat the drums of war that drove you and everyone else crazy. As commander in chief, this was the single greatest failure of an President in American history, bar none.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Your assessment of Bush is not even close. Hell, I put LBJ ahead of Bush, by a country mile.

            • Oh no it wasn’t! Obama has far surpassed Bush in every conceivable way. I believe ObamaCare far surpasses anything Bush did in terms of failure. Going to war over 9/11 isn’t even in the same class. Add to it, the Stimulus, and everything the idiot has done (or not done) since election, and you have an even worse President than Carter. His biggest sin of all in my eyes is his Fecklessness and Disconnection.

            • What if we didn’t put our dukes up after 9/11? Do they just get to keep taking shots on our soil? What if that was you in the twin towers? Hopefully you would have ninja’d your way out. Then what would your response be? And anyway…The WORLD Trade Center was the chosen target, along with other govt buildings. You’re ok with a bunch of terrorists taunting the world? I don’t get it.

              • Anita, you naive little soul.

                The US has been dabbling in Muslim nations for decades and here you are blaming the victims reaction!

                No, sweet soul, the US got back what it had been dishing out – “Blowback” as well described by the CIA regarding US foreign entanglements.

              • You’re the guy who says that until someone comes knocking then no violence is permitted. They knocked, plenty of times, we answered.

              • Mathius™ says:

                Wow, Flag.. way to dial up the condescension to 11.

                Mostly* correct, of course. But delivered in a way guaranteed not to be well received.

                *my only objection is the labeling of the Muslims as the victims. They are, of course, but we are as well. It’s another chicken/egg problem where we’re both the aggressors and both the victims. I don’t think you can point at a specific moment and say “here’s the exact moment the cycle started.” Just because – as you love to point out – we are the hegemonic power doesn’t mean that we should necessarily bear 100% of the blame when the inferior power fights an asymmetric war attacking civilian targets.

              • Mathius,

                Hegemonic theory states that the hegemony is 100% to blame.

                It is their action that creates the reaction.
                If there is no action, there is no reaction.

                It is not a justification of violence for the weaker power. It is statement of reality – that to end the violence, it is 100% up to the hegemony.

                Consider Palestine/Israel. The hegemony was Britain. It was attacked, bombed, etc. – and this ended against Britain when Britain stopped its intervention.

                There is no case that I know of where after the hegemony stopped, that the weaker power continued to provoke the hegemony afterwards.

                And if you think about it makes sense. I can go into detail to why – its a fairly long post – but I think you can figure it out yourself just as well.

              • I think you just had my back there! I know exactly why Flag is using those words…cause we’ve been ’round about his condescension in the past. AND HE KNOWS IT!!! 🙂

              • plainlyspoken says:

                Anita – it was never a military responsibility to deal with 9/11, it was a civil criminal matter.

                How difficult is that to grasp?

              • Very!

              • plainlyspoken says:

                Anita says:
                March 4, 2014 at 2:39 pm


                Yes, well then we know you only believe in the rule of law when it personally suits you I guess. Your beliefs, like so many in this country, will continue to insure the intervention of the United States militarily in other parts of the world (or even here I bet if there was a huge “cell” of Muslims acting in ways you disagree with).

                To you, so it seems, “might makes right.”

  36. Kerry in the tube now.shouting about International Law……… if International Law means anything to anyone. Go watch him….it too is a joke.

  37. @ Mathius………all of this is happening,…. do you agree with me on getting totally out of the region and doing nothing? Let what happens……happen.

  38. I don’t want it and pray it doesn’t happen. But if Obama, Kerry, McCain, and others like them don’t shut up we’re gonna go too far and wind up in a mess! OR, even worse IMHO, get exceedingly embarrassed by Putin.

  39. Putin now on TV…..people asked us for help….we have determined that there was an unconstitutional election in the Ukraine…that is why we are there……

    and the difference is?

  40. Just A Citizen says:

    Another piece of evidence supporting Mathius’ first law:

    • plainlyspoken says:

      Saw that on tv last night……….it was probably the fault of global warming. 🙄

  41. I’m surprised nobody has mentioned that heroine is a GROWING problem in this country, and our military is in control of the country that grows 95% of the crops needed for heroine to exist. I’m sure that’s just a minor case of forgetfulness 😉

    • I haven’t forgotten, it’s just that there is so much other crap going on. But yes. You would think that this Nation could do something about the Poppies in AFG. I guess Obama doesn’t want to interfere in AFG’s Trade with the U.S.. 😉

  42. Just A Citizen says:


    Re: “JAC, we have upheld the integrity of the European nations since WW2. When should they be required to do so on their own?” THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THEM STANDING ON THEIR OWN IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST. HENCE MY QUESTION ABOUT AN ARMED JAPAN.


    “The first item on the agenda should be to clearly define what our national interests are, something we haven’t done well since WW2 either. We support repressive governments until they turn on us, we spend US dollars in crazy sums (1 billion to Ukraine now) for what goal?” FINALLY, THE RELEVANT QUESTION. HOWEVER, FIRST WE SHOULD ANSWER ANOTHER QUESTION.








      Are you inferring the Ukraine is now an US “ally”???

      • Just A Citizen says:



        But are we to be excluded from dealing with Ukraine just because the Russians don’t like it or aren’t man enough to handle it?

        The discussion was in regard to more general principles and policies.

        Geopolitics, and our proper role given the reality of the world, and not what we wish it was.

  43. WOW! Condescend to me all you want. My blinders are off where the “peaceful” muslims are concerned! There is such a thing of course, you just don’t hear anything from them. They are far too busy keeping their heads down. All you see and hear is what the Extremist Idiots and their Enabling Nations do.

    And please! Don’t even try to give me all that crap about how we started it or that they are only reacting to OUR aggression! These Morons want to kill just for the sake of killing. They are nothing but Psychopaths hiding behind a Religion. The sooner they are stomped out the better. And if the U.S. has to do it, then so be it. I have zero sympathy.

    • Rebel, Since 9-11-01, more Americans have been killed by our own cops than were killed during the events of 9-11.

    • Mathius™ says:

      There is such a thing of course, you just don’t hear anything from them

      ::throws penalty flag:: 1,000 yard penalty.

      All you see and hear is what the Extremist Idiots and their Enabling Nations do.

      That’s all you see and hear because that’s all the American news media (*cough* Fox “News” *cough*) cares to report. I took G-man (?) to task on this a couple days ago, but seriously, Google it – there are TONS of Muslims speaking out against extremism and terrorism – you just aren’t hearing them.

      Start with this post I made 1 month ago:

      And this portion bears re-posting:

      Third, in our digital age, it is an act of egregious ignorance for a human being to actually verbalize the words: “Do Muslims condemn terror?” Here is a suggestion from a lowly immigrant: try this thing called “googling.” Start with using the search terms “Muslims condemn terror.” This was the first hit for me, how about you?

      • Please. If you are going to quote me, quote the entire thing. “They are far too busy keeping their heads down.” There! That’s better!

        I never said they weren’t some around. And I was pointedly referring to the Muslims in their own Countries, not here. And I don’t hear any from them because that kind of stuff gets you killed over there.

        And in addition, I have to watch Fox News. Where the hell else should I get it from, the MSM? They don’t know HOW to report NEWS.

      • Penalty denied……….you must include all the other news media with Fox…….re think, re load….fire again.

    • I pretty much agree..until!…just this week, somehow the show Shah’s of Sunset was on my TV..(ok it followed my Atlanta housewives that I got hooked on)..but they are a group of Persians who have come to America, and the show follows their wealthy antics. Anyway, I was speechless when they got into it pretty heavy, condemning all terrorist activity, even against their own (since one of the show’s stars is openly gay) by muslims. They were saying,that just their presence on TV is reason for them to be stoned, executed, etc. I felt a sense of relief hearing that conversation.

      • plainlyspoken says:

        Relieved because it reinforced your personal bias on the horrible Muslims of the world? That they are all terrorists out to take over the world and stomp out all non-Muslims?

        I’ll be sure to let the Muslim friends I have know they aren’t with the program apparently and are hated by Americans for just being Muslims.

        • Mathius™ says:

          Unless I misread her comment – she’s saying that she recently had a revelation that Muslims aren’t all extremists/terrorists. That, watching this show, she learned that they do actually condemn terrorism and aren’t all “out to take over the world and stomp out all non-Muslims.”

        • Put a sock in it Plainly! Gee Whiz! I live 10 minutes from Dearborn. I see and interact with Muslims every day. Some I joke with on the subject. Some I just know not to mess with. It’s just not in the mainstream, them condemning terrorist actions by fellow muslims. Hrumph!

          • Mathius™ says:


            Why do you think it’s not in the mainstream? It’s certainly out there for anyone who cares to spend a minute googling, but it’s not being fed to us the same way as the “they’re all terrorists!!!” angle is.

            Personally, I think it’s just that a nuanced view of Islam doesn’t sell as well as a binary view, so the news doesn’t bother reporting it. Spooky “fear of the other” is good at generating page views. Nuance, not so much.

            • I work with a number of Muslims. You wouldn’t know they are Muslims like you don’t know who is Buddhist like you don’t know who is Christian.

              They are just people, like everyone else.

            • True. But you have to acknowledge that there are non peaceful Muslims also. And they are speaking the loudest.

              • No, they don’t.

                Its merely the voices you and others pay more attention to.

              • Blowing up a bomb in the middle of Boston is speaking pretty loud. So is blowing up two towers in NY, The Pentagon, The Consulate in Libya etc.

              • You mean like this, right?

              • Dread Pirate Mathius says:

                And just what would you have the 1.4 BILLION Muslims who aren’t terrorists do to prove to your satisfaction that they have no interest in killing you.

                Since they don’t seem to be speaking loudly enough for you, if you like, you can leave your home address, and I will have them all send you personal letters stating their intent to kill you or not to kill you.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Here is a critical question on this topic.

              If as you and others claim, this is a religion of peace as practiced by the “mainstream” then WHY would the guy making the comments in that show state that they could be stoned or killed for their comments??

              The problem with this entire line of argument is the failure to recognize the geographical region and particular “tribal” groups involved.

              As I said before, you will get an entirely different view of “Islam” if you focus on the Arab tribes instead of those Americans you know who are Muslim. Even if they came from the Middle East.

              And certainly not all who come here have adopted a more “tolerant” view of their religion.

              I once said that perhaps this is the evolution of Islam which is several hundred years behind the evolution of Christianity. I have seen nothing to dissuade me of this view.

              • Mathius™ says:

                If as you and others claim, this is a religion of peace as practiced by the “mainstream”

                Islam is neither a “religion of peace” nor a “religion of violence.” It is a religion. INDIVIDUAL Muslims determine what they want to get out of it, find support either way, and act accordingly.

                Judaism is neither a “religion of peace” nor a “religion of violence.” It is a religion. INDIVIDUAL Jews determine what they want to get out of it, find support either way, and act accordingly.

                Christianity is neither a “religion of peace” nor a “religion of violence.” It is a religion. INDIVIDUAL Christians determine what they want to get out of it, find support either way, and act accordingly.

                then WHY would the guy making the comments in that show state that they could be stoned or killed for their comments??

                Because there are INDIVIDUALS out there who would stone or kill them for their comments.

                As I said before, you will get an entirely different view of “Islam” if you focus on the Arab tribes instead of those Americans you know who are Muslim. Even if they came from the Middle East.

                It has to do with poverty and lack of education. Poor and uneducated people are ripe for extremism. When someone comes along and tells them that the US is the enemy of Allah and that we are the reason their lives suck and that Allah wants them to kill, they are infinitely more likely to listen than someone in a better circumstance (such as an American Muslim).

                And certainly not all who come here have adopted a more “tolerant” view of their religion.

                Of course not “all.” But prosperity has a way of mellowing people out.

                When people leave the sandbox and find themselves somewhere better, it makes less and less sense to hate people and want to throw away your life in the service of a vengeful vision of your deity.

          • plainlyspoken says:

            And what are you doing to force it into the mainstream? Are you hollering at the media for their bias in reporting it? Are you haranguing the politicians to get the truth out about non-violent Muslims? Are you petitioning conservative and religious groups to stop painting them as all being terrorists, extremists and dangerous to America?

            Or are you just sitting back and not speaking out against the biased and prejudiced views on all Muslims?

            As for “putting a sock in it” I think not. At least I am trying to change opinions (that have stated and spoken of before this).

            • No dammit! I live it. If they’re peaceful with me, then I’m peaceful with them. WTH? I am allowed prejudice if I see fit. Don’t like it? Sorry. I’m not stressin about my personal view!

              • plainlyspoken says:

                If they’re peaceful with me, then I’m peaceful with them

                How nice. So tell me how the current Muslims in Afghanistan aren’t living peacefully with you?

              • OMG! I don’t know what you want to hear from me. I supported going to Afghanistan, and we’ve overstayed our usefulness, time to go home. Want me to apologize for supporting the war on terror! NO! Do I agree with what’s come of the war, ie: NSA , Patriot Act, etc. NO. Want to keep on pushing me for a different answer, go ahead! It’s not going to happen. What is your point…spell it out so you can get off my back. I’m listening.

              • plainlyspoken says:

                I think my point has been made clear enough. No need for you to trouble yourself farther.

              • Somehow I don’t think your point is all that clear. Thought about addressing you as BF-you seem to have decided that ridicule is a good tool for changing peoples minds. Now one point I WANT TO MAKE. People have away of thinking that putting words into peoples mouths or extending their meaning beyond the words used is a really good tool for getting people to shut up or making them look like bigoted hateful people. So let me set you straight on what I think -We have a problem with muslim extremists-that doesn’t mean all muslims -in an of itself it isn’t even an attack on Islam. Yet somehow anytime one talks about this problem-they get the “you are attacking all muslims speech”-So please tell me how do we address this problem if you can’t name the problem.

              • Just in for a second here. Should have gone in, killed the bastards we were after and left. No nation building, no schools, no democracy, no libraries or food stamps. Just kill the bastards and leave. Oh, yes, and leave something behind, a warning saying that the next time we won’t be so nice.

                Iraq, Charlie Foxtrot of the first order. Georgie Patton would have known how to handle it. Leave civil authority in place, take the time to de-Baath the place as we de-nazified Germany and leave. There were good guys in that government and there were good people in their Army, we chose to make them all enemies.

              • plainlyspoken says:

                VH, extremists should be exposed. But the error comes when you leave out the “extremists” when talking about Muslims. First of all Muslims are followers of Islam, Like Jews follow the Torah, or Christians the Bible. The terrorist – those extremists are Islamic extremists, so differentiate when you point fingers.

                As to how the Muslim governments of the world run their countries, it isn’t any of our damn business and if their citizens want to live in a backwards ideal of decent human behavior, well that too isn’t our problem. Drop the apples to oranges comparisons. I am tired of people saying we don’t hear of the non-extremists Muslims here, and yet I agree with Mathius – google it. For far too long all we heard about is how people/groups constantly harangued against Muslims. What, build your mosque here down the street from ground zero; or burn the Koran parties of that idiot preacher in Florida; etc., etc., etc. Society was on a “hate-em-all binge”, Americans afraid of their own shadows. My God, it surprises me the government didn’t round em all up and intern them.

                So, speak of them, but be correct

              • I don’t believe I ever grouped all Muslims together. If I did, my fault. Even so, you’ve been around here long enough to know that when we here at SUFA bring up the war or the terrorists, we’re speaking about the extreme muslims and not muslims in general. Sensitive much?

                By the way…are you Muslim?

      • Mathius™ says:

        Well that sounds like progress!

        Just imagine how many more people might have received this message if All-American Muslim (TLC) hadn’t been cancelled due to companies withdrawing their commercials following pressure from the Florida Family Association. Remember, that the FFA (not to be confused with the future farmers of America) claimed the show was Muslim propaganda because it did not convey Muslims as blood-thirsty terrorists.

  44. Obama’s Budget is out! I wonder what this Turkey will look like? 😀

  45. Just A Citizen says:

    Interesting comments by someone who know Ukrainian politics and history. Notice there is an accusation within this of old “cold war” tactics by the Russians to take over Ukraine.

    I wonder why the Ukrainians view the Russians as adversarial if they are supposedly 80% ethnic Russian?

    • Look, Ukrainians are complex people, like everyone else.

      They are the heartland of Russia – the source of Russian civilization. They are a fierce people (Cossacks) and violently independent.

      They remember the Stalinist years – no Ukrainian escaped the horror – everyone lost someone. (I lost an entire leg of my family tree; only my grandfather and one younger brother whom he barely extracted in time escaped – all his other brothers, sisters, father, mother, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents… absolutely everyone else in his family were lost in the holocaust of Stalin).

      Millennium of ethnic mixing with the Russian Empire, plus memories of the holocaust, plus fierce mindset of independence all rolled up.

      The answer is to let them and the Russians figure it all out. It is far, far, far too complex for the incompetent and clumsy Americans to be involved in.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        So every time a major nation invades its neighbors the rest of the world should just butt out?

        Is that your position?

        • When Red Army tank divisions crushed the Hungarian freedom fighters in 1956, killing 50,000, Eisenhower did not lift a finger. When Khrushchev built the Berlin Wall, JFK went to Berlin and gave a speech.

          When Warsaw Pact troops crushed the Prague Spring in 1968, LBJ did nothing. When, Moscow ordered Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski to smash Solidarity, Ronald Reagan refused to put Warsaw in default.

          These presidents saw no vital U.S. interest imperiled in these Soviet actions, however brutal. They sensed that time was on our side in the Cold War. And history has proven them right.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            A simple YES would have worked just fine.

            Or are you now going to couch your answer? Or should I say “cloud” your answer.

        • Ask yourself this:
          Ho do you think the rest of the world should have reacted to the US’s illegal invasion of Iraq?

      • Nicely said!

    • plainlyspoken says:

      Nice piece BF. I enjoyed it. But, you know it was the extraterrestrials that did all this right? 😉

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Always have tried to follow archeology that are finding lower layers of civilizations long gone. I’ve speculated on how many times has “civilization” recycled itself after some globally destructive event, with few humans surviving. To some of your earlier posts on ancient buildings. The Giza pyramids didn’t just pop up. They spent massive amounts of time and energy on trial and error until techniques were perfected at Giza. Even below the Giza area are buried sites that do not fit any known style documented by archeolgists. They’ll have to rewrite their tomes.
      Think of the global impact the super volcano at Yellowstone had.

      • Black Flag® says:

        Yeah — Yellowstone – thank goodness the last one was a 600,000 years ago.

        But exactly – geographical events – earthquakes, volcanoes, maybe meteor strikes, tsunami’s, pestilence, drought – let alone human ones; disease, war, government ….who knows why these great unknown civilizations went down.

  46. Canine Weapon says:

  47. Just A Citizen says:

    Looks like Crimea is Ukraine’s version of TEXAS. Does this mean that the Texicans will call in the Mexican army to protect them from the pending Yankee invasion???

    Crimea (/kraɪˈmiːə/ or /krɪˈmiːə/)[6] is a Ukrainian peninsula located on the northern coast of the Black Sea. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea (Ukrainian: Автономна Республіка Крим, Avtonomna Respublika Krym; Russian: Автономная Республика Крым, Avtonomnaya Respublika Krym; Crimean Tatar: Qırım Muhtar Cumhuriyeti, Къырым Мухтар Джумхуриети) occupies most of the peninsula.[7][8][9] It was often referred to with the definite article, as the Crimea, until well into the 20th century.

    The Cimmerians, Bulgars, Greeks, Scythians, Goths, Huns, Khazars, the state of Kievan Rus’, Byzantine Greeks, Kipchaks, Ottoman Turks, Golden Horde Tatars and the Mongols each controlled Crimea in its earlier history. In the 13th century, it was partly controlled by the Venetians and by the Genoese; they were followed by the Crimean Khanate and the Ottoman Empire in the 15th to 18th centuries, the Russian Empire in the 18th to 20th centuries, Germany during World War II and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and later the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, within the Soviet Union during the rest of the 20th century until Crimea became part of independent Ukraine with the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991.

    The Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine [7] and is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine. The capital and administrative seat of the republic’s government is the city of Simferopol, located in the centre of the peninsula. Crimea’s area is 26,200 square kilometres (10,100 sq mi) and its population was 1,973,185 as of 2007. These figures do not include the area and population of the City of Sevastopol (2007 population: 379,200), which is administratively separate from the autonomous republic. The peninsula thus has 2,352,385 people (2007 estimate).


      Seems to me that those leading Crimea invited the Russians.

      • Seems to me that in the name of self determination and autonomy and California wanting to be six states, we should recognize the Crimea as an independent nation. and give them a seat at the UN. Hell if Yugoslavia can become 13 countries, why not the Ukraine?

        • Mathius™ says:

          California wanting to be six states

          This has exactly a 0.00% chance of passing.

          • Correct for now. But the Democrats will bankrupt the State eventually and things could change, OR, China already owns enough of the State that it would make sure it doesn’t happen.

            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              “HAS” bankrupt the State and re-phrase Democrat to liberals including the Republicans who have been elected to office since Reagan’s days in office.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Then why doesn’t our own Govt grant the same deference to States within our Republic as they do to States seeking secession within other nations???

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          Yugoslavia was the 13 countries before it was smashed together by force….If my Russian history is not mistaken, Crimea was a autonomous country. Crimean forces during Ivan the Terribles reign did invade Russia but were finally defeated ultimately. It wasn’t until Catherine the Great that Crimea was finally conquered and incorporated into the Russian Empire. For all the excuses made by Britain and France to go to war against Russia in the Crimea during the 1850’s. The port of Sevastopol was a main objective of the invasion, home of Russias Black Sea fleet. History shows us the outcome of that adventure. Britain and France were pushing to hem Russia in feeling they were becoming to powerful. So by all reasoning Crimea could by all rights seperate. They were not part of Ukraine until recent history, but also were not part of Russia by the same token.

          • So, this is how it will play out. Crimea will break away from the Ukraine and either become an independent state or become part of Russia. Texicans should love that.

  48. So while everyone is whining about the Ukraine and two stupid wars in the Middle east, here at home, people are losing their freedom and rights, on a daily basis. I could post these kinds of stories every single day of the week, from all over the country. The real terrorists are the very people you have elected to represent you, they are responsible for the wars you are arguing, and the future one’s not yet begun.

    • It is all part of the same thing! Orwell’s “1984” is instructive. I intend to re-read it.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Deliberate policy to keep us watching the other hand like a good magician.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Wasn’t mental illness the excuse refusniks in the Soviet Union were arrested and commited. They obviously were deranged for not getting on with the program and its obvious good the government was doing for the people and protecting them from these crazy people.

  49. Just A Citizen says:

    OK, lets explore BF’s theory of our Proper role in international affairs.

    “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations…entangling alliances with none”

    Now let us envision this peaceful and friendly relationship we have with some nation run by a tyrant. Then let us envision a civil war wherein said tyrant is removed and a new govt formed.

    What will be that new govt’s reaction towards the USA, I wonder…….

    Or, let us envision a peaceful relationship with a country in the middle east. Our emissaries and citizens go their frequently. Then another nation in the region decides that our mere presence there constitutes “blasphemy” against their “religion”. They decide to wage war against us.

    Our only recourse is of course to LEAVE the friendly nation and no longer trade with them. Because, after all, it is OUR FAULT those other guys are now trying to blow us up.

    • What nonsense.
      No nation wants “to blow up” the US over trade. No one goes to war because the US trades with them.

      • Dread Pirate Mathius says:

        If anything, trade is a huge incentive NOT to go to war.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        I did not say they did.

        Try reading it again.

        And my hypothetical is not that hypothetical at all.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          There has been the inverse though. Our’s and the western nations China policy for close to 100 years.

    • So you make up an utterly fantasy story as your argument….. geez.

      • “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations…entangling alliances with none”

        Can’t have an honest relationship with foreign nations as long as people keep voting for dishonest people to represent our nation.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        No, I constructed a true story. I said they wanted to blow us up because our mere presence was considered blasphemy.

        You then tried to change that into they wanted to blow us up over trade.

        All of which has allowed you once again to avoid addressing the issue directly.

        When we trade with everyone we are making enemies of someone. It is inevitable.

        So what is your answer to this conundrum??

        • No, you didn’t.
          You cherry picked parts and then added rhetoric.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            My EXACT words were:

            “Or, let us envision a peaceful relationship with a country in the middle east. Our emissaries and citizens go their frequently. Then another nation in the region decides that our mere presence there constitutes “blasphemy” against their “religion”. They decide to wage war against us.”

            Now respond to the question.

            • Where in your fairyland such a thing occurred?

            • Just A Citizen says:

              That is not an answer.

              That is you once again hiding behind your own skirt.

              • Black Flag® says:

                It is absolutely an answer.

                You make up a wholly fantasy story, and then pretend it has some contrary case against me.

                Sorry, nope, fantasy stories are not an argument.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              You need to stop projecting or what ever it is you are doing and READ the damn words.

              I was not arguing against you. Are you so freakin sensitive that any discussion or question has to be treated as an adversarial encounter??

              The hypotheticals were not important in their detail.

              The premise on the table was this: “When we trade with everyone we are making enemies of someone. It is inevitable.”

              The question I asked was this: “So what is your answer to this conundrum??”

              See there, no claim of a “contrary case” against you. A simple freaking damn question that is very relevant because it has happened time and again. And it will happen again.

              So once again, what is your answer?

              • Black Flag® says:

                “The premise on the table was this: “When we trade with everyone we are making enemies of someone. It is inevitable.”

                This is absolutely untrue.

              • Black Flag® says:

                I mean, think about it.

                If you trade with everyone, you trade to both sides of the table. How can you make an enemy?

              • Just A Citizen says:


                If we trade with the Saudis we are ticking off those in Saudi Arabia who despise the ruling class.

                When we trade with tyrants we alienate those being oppressed. When it is their turn with the stick they tend to react badly towards us.

                So how do you address this conundrum.

                Claiming it is “untrue” is ignoring history and reality.

                So try again.

              • Black Flag® says:

                You arm, train and protect tyrants, you protect, fund and arm criminal nations, you turn a blind eye to atrocities (actually promote and champion such) – while blaming, isolating, embargoing and condemning the victims – and you think this makes your case?


              • What-now your argument is that we shouldn’t trade with tyrants-because trade of any type is supporting the tyrant-Is it Not?

              • Black Flag® says:

                Missed the “embargo” part, huh?

          • Just A Citizen says:

            At times your are incapable of an honest discussion.

            I agree, laughable.

            Either provide an answer to the basic conundrum or admit you have none.

            • Black Flag® says:

              What conundrum?
              You promote and fund criminals on one side and embargo, isolate the other side.

              To you, this is equitable trade.


              • Just A Citizen says:

                One last try.

                You trade with tyrants, you alienate many of their people.

                When the civil war comes and the oppressed take control and they hate the USA for “trading” with the tyrant then what?

                Do you expect them to just ignore the history and trade with us as well??

  50. plainlyspoken says:

    While I have enjoyed the lively debate this day so far, I must now go for a while to complete assignments for two of my classes I am taking.

    I shall return sometime later today/tonight. Have a nice rest of the day folks. 🙂

  51. The dumbassed PM of formerly Great Britain, demonstrating he has as little grasp on his own history as the big O does on American History announced today that any leader who fled his country for safety to another country has no right to call on that country for aid.

    This dipshit apparently never heard about the Second World War when half the royalty of Europe and many politicians fled to jolly old England for the duration. Guess them calling for the cross channel invasion and the liberation of Europe was not valid. Ought to hand it back to Germany I guess.

    • Just A Citizen says:


    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Or when the Shah of Iran “for his safety” left after Mosaddegh usurped his elected prime ministerial powers and then was himself deposed by US and Anglo actions and the Shah was returned to full power……the Shah opposed Mosaddegh’s plan to nationalize the oil production companies in Iran at the time. Mostly British, not US. The Shah said they did not have the capabilities to run the production at the time. However, by the mid 70’s they did and he pushed for nationalization along with King Faisal of Saudi Arabia. Faisal was assasinated by a nephew who had just returned from the US. He was succeeded by Khalid who pleaded with the Shah to rein in his horns. Within a short time the US was pushing for human rights violations for the shah to leave and was denied support by Carter and ultimately deposed by a great humanitarian himself Khomeni

  52. Just A Citizen says:

    Soon coming to a radio station near you. Radio Free Earth.

    heh heh heh!

  53. While I don’t do much on Facebook, this would all but end any of my personal activities. Frankly, Facebook can kiss my American ass!

  54. JAc and BF,

    I’ve been reading along with this trade scenario, and frankly, I’m not sure what the hell your asking JAC. If, as a nation, we just engaged in trade with foreign nations, instead of the insane BS that we have been doing since WWII, what enemies should we even worry about? If we trade with Crimea and it pisses off a small group of Neo-Nazi’s, who cares? If we trade with Russia and it pisses off Chine, who cares? If our duly elected assholes weren’t into every bodies fuckin business, it wouldn’t be a problem, and the enemies would be far and few. The premise by Flag is just that, just engage in trade, nothing else. That seems like common sense to me, not requiring some stupid scenario that is based on hypothetical fantasy. Trade with those who want to trade, don’t trade with those who don’t, mind our own damn business and we would all be better off.

    Why is this so damn hard?

    • P.S. don’t to forget to vote for more assholes in November 🙄

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I understand his premise perfectly. We trade with EVERYONE. Just trade.

      That does not eliminate the reality that trading with “everyone” is going to cause serious issues for someone. A someone that will resent us for doing nothing but trading.

      The reason this is an issue is because trade is controlled by and between “Nation States”.

      Thus any trade WE conduct is in effect with the Govt of the nation in which we trade. This creates a potential conflict. So do we ignore it and say what the hell, as you suggest.

      Or do we do something else, like do not trade with tyrants ……………. period.?

      • We already trade with tyrants. Do the Chinese people who make their trinkets care who buys them? NO. Do those who manufacture American trinkets care who buys them? NO. It becomes an issue when governments make it an issue. Should we send exports to North Korea? Yes. Should we receive imports from North Korea, Yes. Why are you making an issue of something that should not be an issue? Should we not send our excess grain to help feed people because their duly elected leader is a tyrant? Maybe it would be best if we just threw it all away instead of trying to provide food for them. That would fix them evil tyrants. The people of their country need to deal with their countries issues, just as we should, which I might add we are to busy pissing around in the business of other nations to get our own problems addressed.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I am not making an issue. I am dealing with REALITY.

          Your trading with Tyrants has a long term impact on how you are viewed in the world. Your trading with them allows them to remain in power, to skim the money and live a life of luxury on the backs of their own people.

          It could in fact have significant adverse impact on your ability to trade with others in the long run. When the oppressed get control and decide to exact revenge against you.

          Yet all you did was trade with them.

          If your view is that we should trade with anyone wanting to trade then that is your view. I suppose you don’t mind it if they impose protective sanctions on us either. We can ignore this and just take it. After all, we are the hegemonic power and we must be the one to yield.

          • I suppose you don’t mind it if they impose protective sanctions on us either.

            As our government continues on the path of tyranny, I expect it, but from who? If we have goods that another country wants, they will trade for them, period. Please give an example of what a “sanction ” against us would look like? I wouldn’t be surprised if some already exist today.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Example: Quality control measures on US products, making them impossible to import in Country X. Beef and US rice are two examples. The US faces such sanctions from almost every country, including Canada. The US imposes similar rules on others as well. Sugar for example.

              Tariffs on goods imported to Country X from the USA, that are HIGHER than those imposed by the USA on X’s goods.

              There is NO SUCH THING as FREE TRADE anywhere, I know of, in the world today.

              Trade is part of the current Geo Political Chess Game.

              Just look at those crying about Jobs lost to China. They want tariffs on Chinese products to balance out the disparity in Cost of Goods Sold for USA made products.

              • OK, they exist, but not because of trading with assholes, LOL. I never liked tariffs, I think they are destructive to all people. I can understand safety concerns from some countries, including ours. We are surviving all of them. They will go by the wayside when need outweighs the concerns, it always works that way. Like you say, there is no real free trade anywhere, maybe we should give it a try and see how it works, instead of trying to make it less free, 😉

  55. Anita……we did invade Afghanistan. Whether or not it was justified is another argument….but we did invade. Sorry, maam…..I led a 700 man contingent in there….we set up shop, displaced ( killed or removed from office ) whom WE thought were the enemy. We insisted that they adopt our form of governmental authority without recognizing and understanding their customs, cultures, or standards of living. There were a variety of ways to get to the Taliban, Al qaeda or whomever you wanted to get to but anytime you go into a country with armed personnel, invited or not… an invasion.

    Now, you do not have to put salt on your foot because the way the question was asked was a little convoluted….. but we did not go into Afghanistan to chase terrorists….sorry.

    Now, where the others that have been pounding your doorstep are wrong…..the “so called” terrorists are not criminals to be handled by law enforcement. These are not common street thugs….they are State supported. Everyone, including BF knows this. IF supported by a State ( meaning another government or country )…it is a war and should be fought accordingly….the weapon of choice is another matter, but it is a war. Make no mistake about it. There are simply no lines.

    The US has used surrogates forever….Iran uses surrogates….Russia uses surrogates…China uses surrogates……everyone uses surrogates to further their agenda..

    BF is correct in that trade is not an issue if we trade with everybody but that is impractical. It cannot be done because the world does not think like that. The reality of the world is that cultures are different…I think BF is wrong in that if we did only trade and not interfere in another country;s business, that we would not be signaled out, I think that is wrong..but it can never be proven. Friends have been spying on friends for life….it will not change simply because we adopt a live and let live philosophy.

    Hegemony will never go away……if we do not do it…the vacuum will be filled. If we completely pulled out of every region, renounced our allies, did not have one single troop in any country anywhere, completely did away with our military and and any capacity to respond, developed into an isolationist………we would still not be left alone.. Whoever has the hegemony power will be on our doorstep faster than DPM can swill grog.

    • then why do you support not getting involved. This is what confuses me. But bottom line I simply don’t have a clear picture of wht being an isolationist means. I’ve heard only get involved if it is in our interest or maybe even when our allies request our help. Somehow it just seems to me-that we would stay uninvolved until we were forced to get involved and at that point it would be a lot worse and a lot harder. So lets discuss-how do we decide what is in our national interest because if there aren’t clear guidelines-our interests will be whatever those in control want to do at the time-and nothing would change.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        You raise the MOST important question.

        🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • Isolationism is just another political fear mongering line of bullshit. Nothing more and nothing less.

        • Damn G-your over the top everything sucks attitude is starting to depress me-the world has been turning while being messed up for a long time-chill

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Allow me to address your question. The following is a good discussion of what “isolationism” meant to Americans leading up to WWII. It also includes a short summary of events that happened while we sat by and watched. Well I mean, while we just kept on trading with everyone. 😉

        What is important is to understand that “Isolationism” does not mean to truly “Isolate” the US from all other nations. It was and remains used to describe “not meddling in the affairs of others” and especially not getting entangled in “military conflicts” between others.

        This should cause several other questions to surface.

        • The first thought it brings is holy crap-talk about going from not getting involved to jumping in with both feet and trying to control everything. With the intent of sorta bringing the theory behind isolationism to the whole world by making the whole world follow the trade with all idea-if that makes any sense.

          It does seem from reading that the American people have entered several periods of trying to return to the isolation idea-and it seems that we’re heading there again

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Sir, you have stated twice today: ” but we did not go into Afghanistan to chase terrorists”.

      Then please explain WHY you think we went into Afghanistan.

      And I am talking about the very beginning.

      I have my theory but I will not share until I here your take.

      • Are you a chess player? The Cold War is not really over.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          Yes, I am a chess player.

          I made comments here at SUFA long ago regarding the reason we set up shop in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The REASON lies between them on the map.

          Now my next question is how you know that WAS the reason. I have yet to find a single document, article or section within a book that admits this to be true. Even the books written by all those “insiders”.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          Geopolitics have always been with us forever and will be in the future, just different players on the worlds game table. It’s the ultimate game….by the way I do not mean that in a joking manner. We however, in the US like things neatly wrapped up in the context of our 1/2 hour TV cycle.

          • Yes it will, and most likely to the detriment of homo sapiens.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Oh the IRONY.

              Do you realize that the “NEW WORLD ORDER” that Mr. Rockefeller first mentioned was intended to do away with this very issue?

              That is what he was trying to get across at the time. A “new order” wherein Nations worked together to prevent any future Global wars like WWII. and for the betterment of ALL HUMANITY.

              Personally I think it was a pipe dream. But it sure has given the Conspiracy crowd decades of material to use in their tin foil crock pots. 🙂

              • Well, do some more research on the Conspiracy issue, because your a ways off. But as to Rockefeller’s ideology during his time, it wasn’t such a bad idea, but far from being the basis of the “new order” as it is known today. If you want to have a better understanding of what the “new order” as he was speaking entails, take a peak at the Georgia Guidestones. That’s a good start, no need to move beyond that until you can comprehend what is being put forth.

  56. Speaking of DPM… is clear that you are not thinking clearly. I fear that Mathius has poisoned you or threatened you in some manner…..come on back to Laguna Madre… can be saved.

  57. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    I know all you folks up north are a very generous group, but damn it keep your cold to yourself. Killed all our spring flowers yesterday. Dropped 50 degrees down to the low 20’s over the afternoon yesterday. Didn’t get out of the 20’s all day. Plan is to return the favor this summer with a heat wave OK.

  58. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    Been listening to the news in the background all day. Obvious hot topic of the “crisis” in Crimea and Ukraine, the bare bone budget of 3.9T, and the provocation of Russia firing an ICBM missile today.
    Did anyone hear any announcement in our news about us firing a Minuteman III missile from Vandenberg AFB the other month? We sure did, not newsworthy though….I wonder what Russia’s news services were saying about our test event at the time?

    • I would not be shocked at all if Obama and Kerry led us down the path of nuclear conflict. Obama gotta blame somebody for his failure as a President.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        I would be shocked.

        He is not the only POTUS who lacked serious International skills. None of the others led us to the holocaust. Why should this guy?

        • Why not him? What the others did or didn’t do is irrelevant. Maybe his perception of being stupid is an act, like the rest of his Presidency 🙂

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I read one of the stories on the ICBM earlier. I had to get all the way to the end to find out the Russians had notified the USA of the launch date a couple months ago. According to the ACCEPTED PROTOCOL between the two countries.

      So if the ICBM test was some show of muscle, then the invasion of Ukraine was known two months ago. BEFORE the events unfolded that led to the invasion.

      In short…………… NON EVENT.

      • Agreed……you certainly notify others if you are about to shoot an ICBM that is piced up instantly in sats…….with responses built in……

      • Dale A. Albrecht says:

        I was making a comment that the news was making such a big deal about the missile fireing, like the small Russian warship, if you could call it that, that docked in Cuba. Russia and the US I’m sure notify each other anytime they do a missile test just so there is NO mistaken action taken. The MSM on either side, I’d bet play the story play to their crowd claiming whatever provocation to get what they want from their people. Like I said……was it news that we shot off a Minuteman III ICBM from Vandenberg the other month??? NOPE, but them…OMG the sky is falling.

  59. Alright. Someone (besides Plainly) tell me weather I owe Plainly an apology or not. Plainly said we invaded Afghanistan. I said we did not, he said we didn’t go there for DQ, I called him obtuse, then he hated on me for agreeing with a TV show.

    I’m thinking invasion, as in country v country. I thought we went in there after terrorists, so in that context, we’re not at war with Afghanistan, we’re IN Afghanistan to get the terrorists. No invasion.

    Now here comes the Colonel saying we invaded and its another Cold War. What?

    • I think that most of the time Plainly is a very fair and understanding person. NONE of us are right all the time, even Black Flag and JAC. Hell I’m wrong more often than right as much hell as I get sometimes (LOL). I can handle that, be controversial has it’s detractors. If you feel the need to apologize, it can only come from within yourself, no one can advise of such a thing. Humbleness come from within, not from without 😉

      • Not feeling the need, but I will if I’m corrected. The Colonel is tripping over himself up above but I’m pretty sure I don’t need to apologize. ROFL!

    • Nah…… do not… is a play on words. The term Invasion carries many connotations….especially used in political terms…as Plainly used it. I used it militarily.

      • Sorry about the tripping around…it is election day here…..and it is cold…I do not do cold.

        • Feel free to send up some heat this summer 🙂 Like I told Dale, we were just sending a little message to the global warmers down South that they have fallen for a really big fraud, did we do good?

        • I forgive you. I’m tiring of having to do cold too. Thanks for your response.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      An apology? No. A simple, OK it looks like I was wrong.

      Plainly, on the other hand, owes you an apology. He took your comment completely out of context and jumped you for his ASSUMPTION rather than what you actually said.

      I thought Mathius coming to the rescue would stop the assault, but it did not. I am not sure Plainly understood Mathius or maybe didn’t read it properly either.

      We did not invade Afghanistan in the beginning and in the “common” sense. We TEAMED up with Natives to OUST THE TALIBAN and get to Bin Laden’s crew. There were other broader goals but these two were tops among them, in MY opinion. The Colonel is simply stating the real “affect” of military action. When you send troops into another country to take out the Govt of that country it is an “invasion” in affect. Even if we only use a few hundred to get er’ done. This was the old use of “ADVISORS” tactic of the cold war years.

      Now once the Taliban skedaddled, we suddenly set up shop. After some ass clown called off the SF’s who had bin Laden cornered. Me thinks this is where the mission and goal “Changed”. Or at least someone admitted it was changing.

      We suddenly shifted to NATION BUILDING…………..with INTENT on isolating the Neighbors. Where by then, we were beginning the next campaign.

      Much of my opinion is guesswork, because I do not have access to the classified stuff or meetings. But it is an “educated” guesswork based on piecing things together and perhaps thinking about what I might do.

      Like invading Afghanistan and Iraq in order to SURROUND Iran. But then we screwed the pooch in getting the job done. Which makes me wonder if that was the real reason. Or was it the reason and somebody just MESSED IT UP.

      OR…………..was it all just for PRACTICE and FIRING FOR EFFECT? That last part to show the other gorillas just how bad ass we can be if we want.

      • Ok. I agree with everything here.

        Looks like I was (technically) wrong Plainly. 😉

  60. VH……We cannot be the world’s policeman. You need to ask yourself, where is there a strategic interest in the Ukraine to the US. Why do we even care it exists? Please do not be confused…..isolationist is not what I am in favor of at all. I have no problems with being an economic power and the biggest baddest kid in the world. An isolationist does not mean that you drop from existence….it means that you do not get involved in foreign affairs….Ukraine, for instance. It does not mean that you do not trade nor interact with them economically. But it does mean that you do not care if they use children in sweat shops, commit genocide, etc. What they do in their own country is their business…and you do not export your brand of government.

    It does not mean that you cannot make deals nor engage in contractual agreements. If you want tin from China ( largest tin producer in the world )….go make a deal. But do not say, we will trade with you provided you adopt a no child labor policy….your only concern is tin…..not how many children die in the mines.

    Now, if you adopt this philosophy, it is fraught with danger. The number one danger is the mistaken belief that if you do not interfere in another part of the world that they will leave you alone. This is folly. If you choose to be an isolationist or a policy of non interference, you better be a real bad dude because you will need it. That is the realism. You better have the best equipped and biggest army and not be afraid to use it in defense….and defense does mean offense at times. For example, greed and jealousy are real life issues…with people and governments. If someone steps on your toes, you do not respond likewise… respond tenfold. You must establish yourself as an independent nation yet nasty. You will be left alone if you establish yourself as a power in response.

    We need to solve our own problems. If someone wishes to emulate us… But we do not prop up governments, install regimes, nor assassinate leaders. Hegemony takes many forms and I have no problem with hegemony if the economics call for it. Perhaps we are the better trader. Example…..if Mathius has his own little niche in the world and is rich in…..widgets but short in food…and we are rich in food but want his widgets. It now comes down to negotiations and there is nothing fair in negotiations. If I want all his widgets, I will offer what I feel is fair…not what he feels is fair. I will negotiate to the best of my ability. But, if you decide to replace him with Charlie so you can get a better deal, then you have committed an evil, to quote BF. You just interfered with the internal affairs of another country.

  61. Just A Citizen says:


    Sir, why is it I get the feeling Putin is pulling Obama in deeper and deeper? For some grander play that will blow up in our face.

    Putin already has Mathius convinced Obama is a master chess player, long game guy. All thanks to Putin’s thrust and parry, thrust and parry. Bluster, act and then withdraw.

    Each time the Administration BELIEVES the withdrawl is due to their actions. Now Kerry is standing in the streets of Kiev. What an IGNORANT thing to do.

    Unless of course, BOTH sides were in on it from the start. Did they DIVY up Ukraine at their recent “meeting”??? Is this what was meant by “I will have greater flexibility after the elections”??

    • You get that feeling because the deeper Putin pulls in Obama….the more justified he gets and the more the “big bad Americans” become the culprit.

      Remember, thrust and parry uses pawns. Pawns are the first line of defense. Now, instead of boots on the ground, you have the State Department and the mid level defense….rooks, knights……Thrust…move the pawn….parry…set up the bishops and queen. Pretty soon. the King is unprotected and does not see it….brilliant flanking maneuver. So, Biden has shot his powder and now Kerry has. Ball and shot is gone… Obama is twisting in the wind thinking that the 7th Cavalry is coming over the hill. ( The EU ) Bugles are blaring but no reinforcements coming……you and I both know that Russia is there to stay….they have flanked this administration in Syria and Russia is there to stay. AND……Putin has not even played his ace in the hole yet…..Obama has threatened his…….so, changing to poker….Obama is playing the river….Putin had the hand won three cards ago.

  62. Holy crap Batman!!! Watched O’Reilly this evening. Had Dennis Kucinich on. Basically Kucinich said everything I have been saying all day long including the CIA involvement, the back channel stuff, the side deals and the disinformation. Don’t exactly know what to say here. If this whole Obama orchestrated fiasco that obvious to people? Me agree with Kucinich? Aaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

  63. plainlyspoken says:

    Ok, several things to reply to, so down here.

    @Anita, you have no reason to apologize to me for either being wrong or tossing out the obtuse comment at me as you did. My feelings weren’t hurt in the least. 🙂 But thank you anyway for the acknowledgment of being in error.

    @VH – Ridicule, yes I suppose that was plainlyspoken, and my response to you over my using it is “boo hoo”. There are times ridicule is proper and I decided it was, but likely not for any reasons you or JAC may decide I used it.

    @JAC, I can answer you with the following. I didn’t misunderstand anything Anita said and I ignored Mathius’ attempt to head it off at the pass. But, thank you so much for knowing what I was and wasn’t thinking.

    I used ridicule because of the following things said by Anita (paraphrased): 1. We didn’t invade Afghanistan, 2. We were invited in, 3. We aren’t at war with Afghanistan (and no, we technically aren’t – but we damn sure were). Those are the prime reasons, nothing else. When confronted with such – outlandish – statements it earned me slipping off into ridicule (just like you’ve been back and forth with BF today, both of you have used it).

    You and the Colonel can shade the words & meanings anyway you want, but invade we did. Fight a war, we did. Get invited in, we didn’t. I disagree with the Colonel that it was a military matter – we each have our reasons I am sure. It wasn’t anything more than an angry expression of power. Bush used it to bootstrap us into his Iraqi war, which is what he really wanted to be doing in the first place and 9/11 gave him an excuse to unleash the dogs of war.

    So, there you have it and when it comes down to it I stand by my beliefs. If anyone at anytime doesn’t like what I say or how I say it – who cares? Stop reading what I write or responding to my comments.

    • I find myself a little confused by your obvious anger.Per your own words you chose to ridicule Anita-now the way I look at it -ridicule- is meant to create anger-so you succeeded. Don’t know if you pissed off Anita but you managed to piss me off. But not enough to not ever talk to you again 🙂 just enough to call you on it. But hey, you are right- you can say whatever you want and I can respond to what you say however I want. I assume we will agree on this last sentence and stay friends.

      • Yeah he pissed me off. 🙂 But I’ll get back in the ring again with him, and he’ll piss me off again.

        You, on the other hand! Always make my day!

        • Well of course you will and so will I -I suspect we piss him off occasionally too. 🙂

      • plainlyspoken says:

        Anger, nope – frustration, yes. Why, because I expected better from Anita in her understanding of Afghanistan (she’s no novice around here). You’re right that generally ridicule brings out anger, but it also brings attention to what the one being ridiculed is saying and hopefully causing more inspection of just what the person is putting out for consumption.

        So making her mad was one of the points of using the ridicule I guess.

        I will, when I feel it valid to do so, probably use ridicule in the future too. Now, if I get up on the wrong side of the bed and go off (as I did one day) then I will come to my senses and apologize (as I did that day). Otherwise people may want to use their reverse free speech rights with me – silence.

        Friends – of course. If I can’t piss off friends (and get pissed off by friends) then why have friends? 🙂 I carry no grudges, no matter how hostile I can get over some subjects (see, it’s a mistake to think I am always a peaceful middle-of-the-road guy 🙂 ). So, from my side – all’s good.

        No, I am not Muslim, just an old fashioned, Bible believing, WI born Christian old man living in the mountains of Colorado. Oh, and damn proud of it too. 🙂

        • Well, well, well! Ain’t that somethin’. As it turns out, I’m pretty well informed, according to the Colonel. You Alinsky’d me but I’m still standing. Got treated like Sarah Palin, you betcha! I wonder if I’ll get an apology?

          • plainlyspoken says:

            First, the discussion isn’t over where the Colonel’s comments are concerned – so a bit premature there.

            Second, dear Anita if I were you I wouldn’t hold my breath. I am not anywhere near a point where I feel it necessary to apologize for anything. The case isn’t proven in your favor yet by a long shot (see my response to the Colonel).

    • Plainly……read me very carefully, please.

      1. Invade, we did. Pure and simple. I acknowledged that.
      2. Were we at war with the State of Afghanistan, no we were not. There was no declaration of war from our Congress. That is it, pure and simple as well. ( Now, understand that is the technical definition of war ).
      3. Invited in….yes, the NATO alliance was invited in. By whom? There was a civil war raging in Afghanistan in 2001. The Taliban were seizing, by force, power from the current government. The current government invited troops in and even supplied residence, food, and their own troops for training.

      Now, I gave you my definition of war vs law enforcement. IF the Taliban and Al Qaeda were just unorganized street thugs like….the Crips or Bloods or even like the Mexican Cartels….that us law enforcement. BUT…..the Taliban and their brotherhoods…..the Al Qaeda and their brotherhoods…are State supported, State trained, and state supplied….THAT IS NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT. That is direct involvement by a sovereign state…hence my allegation that the cold war is not over…the players changed. You still have surrogates doing your bidding.

      Here is how I see it…….if Iran sponsors Al Qaeda…..and AL Qaeda hits a target….we should not be going after Al Qaeda….we should go after Iran. You should go after the State that initiated the violence….and do it ten fold. And you must do it without recompense, emotion, or leniency. Then you leave. You do not occupy anything. If we did that…..we would be left alone.

      Allow me a great example in the Somali Pirates….we hit back, now…..and with a vengeance…..when was the last American Registered ship seized?

      • plainlyspoken says:

        Colonel, your turn to read carefully please.

        1. Technical definition be damned, it was a war against the state of Afghanistan and to argue the technical aspect sounds like a lame courtroom defense tactic to me. The US toppled and replaced the government of Afghanistan through invasion and military action. That, sir, is a war.

        2. I don’t know whom you mean by the “current government”? By 2001 90% of the country was controlled by the Taliban, and they damn sure did not invite the US to come overthrow them. You need to provide evidential links to your claim.

        Country Designation Date
        Cuba March 1, 1982
        Iran January 19, 1984
        Sudan August 12, 1993
        Syria December 29, 1979

        The current list of state sponsors of terrorism. When do these wars start Colonel? When does the US unilaterally decide to attack them (even if we just pound hell out of them and leave)? Terrorist are not valid military targets, and the states that sponsor them are not either absent any action by that nation to directly attack the US (and don’t, please, give the tired argument that a nation supported the attack on the Twin Towers – it does not justify invasion of a foreign nation). It is, historically and rightly, a law enforcement/criminal justice system responsibility to punish the terrorists.

        How many times has the US supported acts against nations we wanted to destabilize? By rights were should have had our nation attacked long, long ago – but our strength and arrogance prevented that from happening.

        • Your point one……I was answering the question from Anita,however, lame or not, that is the defense that has been widely used since time began, I guess. Point tho….the Taliban did control most of the country….not the government. Now, you need to recognize something…because of the feudalism that was rampant after the collapse of the Soviets, the current government in Kabul did not represent the majority…but there was a government. When the tribal Pashtun (Taliban)….started systematically eliminating the Kabul government, forcing the elite into leaving the country, they did not become the legitimate government and because Pakistan recognized them…no one else did…to my knowledge. That does not make the Taliban the legitimate government…it was an over throw. So, if you are adopting that the Taliban were the legitimate government….your assumption would be correct.

          Your point two… answered above.

          I simply do not care about the list of state sponsored terrorism….we can be added to that list because our skirts are not clean, by any stretch of the imagination. The statement was centered around becoming isolationists……if we become totally defensive in nature….staying out of everybody’s business……not inflicting violence and simply trading…and we get punched in the nose….my response would be….hit the ones responsible….do not kill the messenger…..chop the head off the sponsor.

          In answer to your statement about should we have been attacked? you betcha…. and I agree that we are and should remain he biggest boy on the block and wield that power in our legitimate defense.

          So, now, a question for you……..if you feel as you do that it was a law enforcement issue…who enforces the law and how? Internationally? Sanctions? Against whom?

    • Just A Citizen says:


      My comment about your response to Anita was over her discussion of her Muslim friends and acquaintances. It had nothing to do with the discussion of Afghanistan.

      Yes, you can believe what you want in that regard. However, when your beliefs defy common definitions and use of terms they are in error. Call it technical if you like but claiming things like we were at war with Afghanistan completely distorts the reality.

      For example, if we were at war with the Nation of Afghanistan, most of the country would be in ruins.

  64. Okay, this is funny no matter what you think about this situation

  65. Hmmmm-reminds me of the story about the evil Nazi that became an abortionist.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      This story is garbage and should be ridiculed as such.

      Guess what, your Bayer Aspirin is made by the company that created “mustard gas” for the Germans and the powder for the Nazi ammunition.

      • oh, don’t get all upset JAC-I just find it interesting that history repeats itself .

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