Hip, hip! err, now what?

Fixing the Department of Veteran Affairs mangled health care system and ravaged image is attainable but will require a profound and painful housecleaning — perhaps including mass firings and partially privatizing the agency’s medical arm, several top veterans said Friday.

Political leaders and combat veterans alike hailed the resignation Friday of VA Secretary Eric Shinseki as merely the beginning of a wholesale rebuild of the department.

But following the release Friday of a White House-ordered audit showing that hospital staff imposed unnecessary waits at 64 percent of 216 surveyed VA facilities, that new public face must also swing a heavy hand, Tarantino said.

Image: Connie Olberg Ted S. Warren / AP
Connie Olberg sits in her home in Sammamish, Washington, on May 21, holding a photo of her brother, Donald Douglass (at left), taken in the mid 1970s when he was serving in Germany in the U.S. Army. Douglass had a small spot on his forehead diagnosed as cancerous at the Seattle Veterans Affairs hospital in 2011, but according to his lawyer, the hospital’s delay in removing it contributed to his death in 2012.

“Senior leaders at the VA must know that if you lie, if you are lying to your country, if you’re lying to your patients, you’re going to go,” Tarantino said.

Fellow Iraq veteran David Curry, a retired Marine wounded by an improvised explosive device, said indifferent employees infesting the VA’s medical system pose greater problems for frustrated veterans than the department’s top brass.

“It’s time for the Jack Welch approach of firing the bottom 10 percent,” said Curry, 32, referring to the ex-chief of General Electric who endorsed the sweeping terminations of GE’s lowest performers.

“In my interaction with the VA over the years, there were many employees who outright didn’t care, who are there for the paycheck,” Curry said. “Getting rid of them would send a bigger message than just Shinseki.



  1. I am glad Shinseki resigned. I do not blame or excuse him, but in his job, results are what count. He failed at his job.. Maybe we will have scrutiny with his successor & dare I say, transparency? If there are processes & procedures that make it impossible to fix as is, then those processes will have to be changed. Without knowing, it is easy for me to imaging problems that only an act of congress can fix. This is usually the result of a problem created by congress in the first place. I wonder, do I thank President Obama?

    • I am a vet, I belong to the American Legion, My son belongs to the VFW, I get the magazines and newspapers from both. In addition, we have a subscription to Army Times and Air Force Times. I am a member of the Air Force Association. I read all their stuff. I do not know that anyone can properly run the VA. There has been this mad rush to sign up for VA medical benefits for the past decade or more. Several friends who had perfectly good private health care through their jobs chucked it for the VA and then bitched that the VA did not have the latest and greatest most notably (two guys) on the one time use, prepackaged insulin injectors which their private plans provided.

      My son, the VA employee, has for years been telling horror stories about waste that cannot be addressed. The mobile personal scooters for example are bought at a fixed price which was set when they first came out and were a novelty. Think in comparison of the first flat screen TV prices vs now. This price is locked in. Congress made that happen. Congress locks in all the prices and I wonder just who benefits.

      The mad rush to sign up as a category one or category six if you ever so much as had the sniffles in the service has totally overwhelmed the system. Nobody can straighten that out. Shinseki tried to his credit. I think his mistake was comparing his Army management style to Civilian bureaucratic management. In the service, somebody is always responsible and people tend to at least try to do the job and try hard. On the Civilian side in government it ain’t necessarily so and the main effort is in finding someone else to blame when it all goes up in flames. What idiot ever thought of bonuses anyway? Betcha that was some dumb assed Republican Bush idea to make it more like private enterprise. Can’t have the rewards of the private sector when you have lifetime job protection. They are counter intuitive.

      Regarding the article, what jumped out at me was the question, why Donald Douglass was in the system? These news stories raise more questions than they answer partially because of the laziness of the reporters. Was this guy career Army? If so, he gets lifetime benefits. If not? He was in after Vietnam so it was not a combat related priority or an agent orange type case. He had skin cancer on his head. When I was in the Army, we wore hats outside all the time! The likelihood of developing skin cancer there, because of military service is lower than let’s say a UPS delivery man. Of course there is always the related issue, how many die each year on the civilian side because of malpractice or misdiagnosis.

      To my knowledge, all service organizations from the Amvets to the Paralyzed veterans are urging all post 9-11 vets to sign up for medical benefits. The statistics show that fully half are doing that. From hangnails to serious conditions, they all take up valuable time and tax resources that have become limited because of the sheer volume. My age group, 60 plus, are really starting to use the system and trying to link just about any illness to agent orange. Having had three friends die early (in their fifties) from weird blood cancers who were on the ground, in Vietnam in the early spraying years, 64-65, I can sympathize but sailors who made one port call? Guys on Aircraft carriers in the South China Sea? 67 year old overweight smokers who have diabetes now or heart problems are linking that to agent orange? This is crazy. Nobody can deal with it.

      As a side note, Shinseki has the unusual distinction of having been canned by both Republican and Democrat administrations. Unfortunately for him, he is only of Asian extraction and neither a woman, a gay, black nor a Muslim all of which would probably have allowed him to stay on.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I’m a vet as well, been in the VA system for almost 4 years. I get 100 percent of all my medical needs covered, without question, including recent foot surgery. I use the facilities in Western Pa, including the Pittsburgh hospital , I have never experienced any kind of waits that I consider out of the ordinary, and have received great an respectful service.

        With that said, I believe it comes down to leadership at the facility more so than anything coming from DC. Not all hospitals are having these problems, but a very large number are. It’s fixable with good leadership at the local level. Pittsburgh is a great example of reform with the help of the American Legion. No longer considered a dirty facility. Sir snd Ma’am are used by everyone, even the youngest employees.

        It’s not all bad, but, groups like the American Legion play an important role in my area.

  2. gmanfortruth says:

    Many fixes needed for sure. Obamacare is not helping at all. I would dsy that firing those who have shown to not care should be dismissed. That’s a start, them we can move our way up the chain and hold people accountable, ending with the man at the top, fire his sissy ass too!

    • Wow-history isn’t my strong suit-but this discussion would be interesting

    • Add this all up. The African victims. The Indian victims. The European victims. Add in the Armenian genocide. Then add in the lesser known, but no doubt quite large number of victims of Eastern Asia. Add in the jihad committed by Muslims against China, which was invaded in 651 AD. Add in the Crimean Khanate predations on the Slavs, especially their women.

      Though the numbers are not clear, what is obvious is that Islam is the greatest murder machine in history bar none, possibly exceeding 250 million dead. Possibly one-third to one-half or more of all those killed by war or slavery in history can be traced to Islam; and this is just a cursory examination.

      • Seems to me this article is virulently anti-Islam. As Hillary might say, “who cares? That was a a long time ago, can’t we get over it.”

        In the last section I brought up white guilt, here is another great example. We can dredge up the sins of the Reconquista at the drop of a hat but as Hitler said, “Who remembers the Armenians” and he was only 20 years out! I think our friend Charles would duck this one.

  3. MSNBC
    May 30, 2014
    11:39 a.m. Eastern

    TAMRON HALL, host: There you have it the breaking news of the morning, president Obama accepting the resignation of V.A. Secretary Shinseki. I have got with me Chris Matthews, Colonel Jack Jacobs is also standing by and Chris, I want to start with you, and the president said it was Rick’s (Shinseki) judgment that he would be a distraction for the task at hand, of course that’s dealing with the long waits what do you think?

    CHRIS MATTHEWS, host of Hardball: I think that the way they scheduled it, the president was intending to accept the resignation this morning, and I think it’s because people expect our top government officials to be on alert, to be responsible as executives. These are not honorary positions, president and cabinet secretary, you are supposed to know what’s going on, like a soldier on post somewhere. And secondly, Democrats who believe more in government and have sold the Affordable Care Act and believe in this kind of government role, are the ones most politically responsible, this is a political decision the president made. If the Democrats don’t show some crackle in the way they run the government, the American people will have a problem with that.

    TAMRON HALL: And to your point about a political decision, the president noted couple of times his budget has included money for the V.A. System, we know it was back in February that the senate Republicans blocked $24 billion to go to the V.A. health services and education programs and we know that there’s the undercurrent of politics in what is truly a priority here.

    MATTHEWS: But the minute he said today, in fact he said it a couple of days ago, if it is a systemic problem, of course, if it’s V.A. wide, I’m gonna deal with it, I’m gonna make a change here. But why didn’t he know about it, why didn’t Shinseki know if it was systemic. And by the way, the idea of a 4 month waiting period to see a doctor is unimaginable.

    HALL: Unimaginable. And you have a 152 V.A. hospitals the system starting in 1930, but colonel, let me bring you in on this, I think the nail in the coffin was Secretary Shinseki saying it was an isolated incident exclusive almost to Phoenix and then having to admit he did not know it was more widespread and getting out there on that limb saying no. no, no, it’s Phoenix. And then we learn, it’s not just Phoenix. I think many people–you know and I know, and I took my father to Phoenix, and you had know that it was not just that hospital.

    JACK JACOBS, retired Colonel: You know, Chris just laid out the sequence of events really well. Shinseki started out by saying it’s isolated incident, and then it is determined that it is not. And then I think that the real nail was when the Democrats started to abandon Shinseki and the president had no other recourse but to get rid of shinseki. I think that is the sequence.

    HALL: And when you have people like congressman Tammy Duckworth saying it is time, she was the latest this morning amongst the Democrats and widely respected, an Iraq war veteran, saying that General Shinseki would be a distraction, how do you survive after that, colonel?

    JACOBS: Well, it is almost impossible, and bringing up the whole notion of the congressional support or the lack of it is really important. If we remember back during sequestration, the Department of Veteran Affairs was, I think the only department that actually got an increase in the amount of money that it with was getting in during sequestration, and everybody else was cut. And I think that the congress said, well, we’re gonna give these guys more money, because what they are doing is really, really important, and then to have it fail in the face of having been given lots more money during a difficult time, I think that made life extremely difficult for the entire organization.

    HALL: Chris, did the president do a good job explaining the difference in not accepting the resignation of Kathleen Sebelius, but accepting the resignation of Shinseki?

    MATTHEWS: No, that wasn’t a clear distinction. In fact, I think that this is an echo, unfortunately for the president of his own behavior and he was not alert of the problem of the rollout on his major piece of legislation the Affordable Care Act. And he let it go all of those months until we actually had the catastrophe, and so this lack of alertness, I think people– one thing I like about election nights and I love them like most of us in the business do, because of the crackle, somebody wins and somebody loses, and people want to see that in the government. They wanna see if the government can respond to a situation quickly, move, make decisions, be efficient and don’t waste your money, and take care of the people they are supposed to take care of. We all feel for General Shinseki, but what about that guy waiting right now for a doctor, and is waiting three or for months who may have lost a limb or may have had infection, who may really need help with something, and that is the concern. It is like the Catholic church, my church, they waited they worried about the priests and the cardinals and the bishops, but they should have been worried about the altar boys. That is who they should have been worried about.

    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/connor-williams/2014/05/30/chris-matthews-obamacare-rollout-and-va-scandal-show-presidents-lac#ixzz33JfjCXCD

    • “back in February that the senate Republicans blocked $24 billion to go to the V.A. health services and education programs”

      “If we remember back during sequestration, the Department of Veteran Affairs was, I think the only department that actually got an increase in the amount of money that it with was getting in during sequestration, and everybody else was cut. ”

      I’m really not sure what the democrat spin is gonna be here.
      They can point out this has been going on for a long time -so it’s as much Bush’s fault as theirs-but that kinda messes up their argument that socialist medicine is a wonderful thing.

      If they say it’s the republicans fault for blocking funds to the VA-it points out that socialist medicine costs a lot of money because they’ve already pointed out how much money Obama has increased the VA’s budget,which Bush also did.

      And where are all the discussions about how Obama has cut and increased the vets personal costs or simply got rid of programs all together. Like TRi-care, I believe that’s the name, how much has that hurt the vets he cares so much about.

  4. Thank the Lord-I wonder if they’re still gonna beat her-although I won’t feel she or her children are actually safe as long as they stay in Sudan.


  5. Way to go Obama……you just agreed to a prisoner swap….an army sgt for five of the worst Taliban.

    You did not condemn the military, we know and understand the risks… but you just put a price on every single American traveling abroad.

    • You might as well trade the Marine imprisoned in Mexico for 30 or 40 drug dealers and rapists and gun runners……you are a despicable coward.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        AS well as breaking another law:

        Inhofe and McKeon said that Obama “clearly violated laws which require him to notify Congress thirty days before any transfer of terrorists from Guantanamo Bay.”

        “Our joy at Sergeant Berghdal’s release is tempered by the fact that President Obama chose to ignore the law — not to mention sound policy — to achieve it,” they said in their statement.

        Inhofe and McKeon also said that Taliban terrorists will now have a “strong incentive to capture Americans,” arguing that Obama’s actions set a precedent where terrorists will think the administration will trade prisoners to release others.

        Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/defense/207835-republicans-blast-obama-for-negotiating-with-taliban#ixzz33O7PnpEe

        The Dems will call this a big deal and applaud their Token. That will last until the next American(s) are kidnapped and held for such a ransom. The consequences will be long lasting, likely costing lives. Just Plain Stupid ! Glad to have our own back though, at least this has a bright side for now.

        • They still do have American captives……civilians…..interesting to see how they handle this….as it does not fall under POW……..

    • I find the timing way to convenient-VA mess-suddenly they find this guy who has been missing for how many years-I think I read he disappeared in 2009.

      • I was just reminded on Face the nation that this guy is basically a deserter who walked off his base with some crackers idea he could walk across Afghanistan. Wonder what he will say in front of the Press. Might be their good buddy now, who knows? Maybe even a possible convert to the religion of peace? If that happens it will be another brilliant triumph for Obama and Chuck Hegal.

    • The # one issue should be a major shift in US policy. Will terrorists or drug cartels now kidnap US soldiers to force a prisoner exchange? Can Iran hold a dozen at their nuclear plant as living shields?

      Next issue, congress passed a law stating no Gitmo transfers without 30 day prior notification. Obama signed it with a signing statement saying congress did not have that authority. Then why didn’t he veto it? Then it would not have become law.

      Real issue, this is just a distraction to shift our attention away from the VA, Russia, China, the economy….

    • “but you just put a price on every single American traveling abroad.”

      Are you seriously trying to suggest that there have never been prisoner swaps? Are you seriously suggesting that you think capturing prisoners and getting hostages is suddenly a new idea for them and not one of their main objectives? Have you not been paying attention to terrorist activities since the dawn of time? I thought you were a military man.

      So you are suggesting that you just leave him there? What would have happened for example if he died in captivity but it was later found out that the taliban were open for negotiations. I think you would create an almighty stink with lots of “Obama hates the military”.

      5 for 1 is a damn good deal as far as prisoner exchanges go. Israel exchanged over 1000 Palestinian prisoners to get one soldier back the last time they did this.

      You guys are nuts and the hypocrisy is enough to make me gag, I really hope Obama does not say “I think breathing is really good to do” or you guys are in for some serious trouble.

      • HA!! I can just imagine the outrage had Obama not taken action and it was found out he could have made an exchange…calling him un-American, calling for his impeachment…hmmm….come to think about it, it’d probably sound just like it does now. Go figure.

      • 5 barbarians for 1 traitor is not a good deal at all. 14 men lost their lives searching for a deserter. Now more will likely lose their lives because of the Traitor N Chief. Fucking Traitor! That’s Barak Obama, a traitor to the USA, Fuck him. PHQ Obama! You are the enemy of the people!

        • Actually the deal was the 5 for 1 American soldier…

          But he’s a traitor — ummm, how so??

          But he’s a deserter — not actually known to be true at the moment, but even so, so what? Every war has thousands of deserters.

          But 6…no, 14! soldiers were killed looking for him — if you bothered to actually look at the facts not a single death has been definitively linked to the search for him.

          Regardless, why let those pesky facts get in the way -/ impeach Obama! Sigh.

          • Yes Buck, don’t let the facts interfere with your love of the Messiah. He screwed up, big time. He broke the law, traded 5 BARBARIANS for one traitor, who, as the official record will show, is true, down the road. Vets don’t call out their own without a real reason. It’s not how they/we work. If he was a true POW, I would be praising Obama for getting at least one thing right! Sadly, even the kids hometown gets it, shame you don’t 🙄

            • You want to go off lambasting Obama for taking the action he did, go for it. There is a fair level of criticism for his failure to notify Congress.

              But why the huge rush to label Bergdahl an un-American traitor?

              • I don’t follow the Left Wing media, mainly because they are in Obama’s pocket. I have read and seen interviews with those who served with Bergdahl, read the article from way back out of the Rolling Stone magazine, saw the e-mails his parents released for the article. The evidence is quite clear that he deserted and sought out the Taliban. Afterwards, attacks on Americans were much better orchestrated, 14 men lost their lives in the hunt for him. I have read from some soldiers that the later parts of the hunt were not to rescue, but to kill as a traitor. There’s lots to sift through, but one thing I do know, Vets don’t make such claims unless they are true. We don’t call our fellow servicemen or veterans traitors or deserters without absolute just cause. If these claims were untrue, his fellow service members would be coming to his aid and defending him. That is not the case. Their is a high level of dedication to each other in the service, betrayal is guaranteed to cause instant hatred. Bergdahl’s has caused the death’s of honest men, at least 14. That’s enough for me at this point.

                However, I want him to stand trial for desertion and if the evidence is strong enough, for treason. It should be a fair trial and not a public one. Let our system of justice do what it is intended to do, serve justice, those who died because of Bergdahl’s actions deserve as much.

                I’ll chill on the Messiah, my blood pressure needs a break 🙂

          • Actually it isn’t the pesky little facts that matter-we as a Country have make many mistakes, in life you make decisions and you live with the consequences-the problem is that this President seems to believe-in my opinion more than any President in my lifetime -that he can make these decisions all on his own. He is destroying our system of government, he is laughing at our laws. I don’t care why he thinks what he thinks or why he does what he does-good intentions or bad-good results or bad-we have a system and he does not have the right to just do what ever the hell he wants to do. This isn’t an argument over whether or not this man should have been brought home -or whether or not he’s a POW-that’s just details-it’s the total disregard of all that makes us America that matters.

      • Bob and Buck, You have NO IDEA how hated a deserter is amongst vets. Your wife could screw every guy in your High School class, and you couldn’t hate HER more than how vets hate deserters. There is far more to this story than your pathetic left wing media is telling you. I’m glad the kid is home, so he can be put on trial and convicted of High Treason. He can hang right next to Obama!

        • Maybe if the Marine jailed in Mexico was a deserter and his mom was a member of one of the drug cartels we could trade some drug lords in jail for him, what do Ya think?

          • Slightly different situation, don’t you think….

            • Very different, thus the sarcasm 🙂 Obama has already done something with Mexico, Operation Fast and Furious, which allowed thousands of weapons get into the hands of the cartels. I’m not surprised by Mexico’s action in the least. They can’t be very happy with the King, now can they? 🙂

        • The Taliban don’t keep prisoners, they kill them. History is clear, Bergdahl is a traitor. Wake up Girls!

        • gman idiotic statements like this are what has helped turn this blog from an intelligent discussion board to the festering pile of turd it is now. Its managed to get worse than the last time I was here and that must be some kind of achievement.

  6. One for the Colonel, was just bemoaning with a friend the loss of my two Davy Crockett Bubble Gum card collections by my parents who never fessed up to it.

    Last card in the series.


  7. Just A Citizen says:
  8. Interesting take on the trade from our Sec of Defense……the lad was considered a POW….that means a prisoner of war…..that means that it is a war. He said that exchanging POW’s has been going on for some time…..and that there were NO NEGOTIATIONS with terrorists….none….nada….zip. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO there are now no terrorists.

    SOOOOOOOO……this means that the Taliban and the militants are now considered an army and, therefor, fall under the POW issues……THAT MEANS…..that there is no common thug….they are now not criminals but an organized army sponsored by a state…….

    • The hole just gets deeper and deeper doesn’t it?

      • Oh….it is getting better and better….now that I have had a chance to talk to people in the know…and now the news media apparently has it….these animals that were traded for a non combatant POW….( non combatant defined as this soldier was NOT captured as a result of hostilities ) and these animals are by definition from Sec of Def Hagel…as “Chief of Staff, Chief of Intelligence, Chief of Army….were PERSONALLY responsible for the death and torture of over 6,000 “non believers”….and by personally, three of these animals literally slit the throat of several persons in front of their wives and children, decaptied children, in the name of Allah, in front of the husbands and mothers before killing the husband…and then the wives,…..lining captives up, one behind the other, and with a high powered rifle seeing how many they could kill with one shot……..these are the animals that have been traded as a POW exchange.

        Unbelievable……AND…to make matters worse….Obama, through a signing statement, said that the requirement to report to Congress thirty days ahead of time was a usurp of Presidential authority…..therefore, he issues a signing statement negating that law.

        And the hits keep on coming….and the left is silent.

  9. gmanfortruth says:

    @Buck, I have a friend who has a debt that was completely up to date when the company holding the debt began to refuse payment, thus making the account past due. I have heard that if a company refuses payment, they may be in violation of the contract and liable for the balance. Any opinion?

    • Depends on the terms of the debt instrument.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Simple credit card, low balance. The payments they denied accepting all included a return payment fee, his bank has no return payments to the card company and no notice of payment methods were given. All payments by same bank and methods always were accepted, till recently. They have lied , said it was his bank, to which they were proven wrong.

        First , why would they lie? For the record this is for a senior not related to me.

        • Would need a lot more info as to what is going on. Sorry.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            The gist, as I know it, it just seems that the computer at the card company is kicking his bank acct number back as not a serviceable acct, despite the opposite being true. They have accepted payments from same account for over a year, No change to bank acct, ample funds available, he went as far as trying to make a payment by phone, used same bant acct numbers , received a confirmation number only to look at acct a few days later an they didn’t accept payment and charged a return payment fee.

            This is an ongoing issue, to date. They claim to be investigating at a higher managdment level, they have lied to him on the phone 3 times to date. That’s all I have as far as info. Probably not much can be done with it.

            • Could be something as simple as a glitch with their system. Very strange indeed….

              His bank is no help in resolving the matter either? Has he tried paying by check? Has the credit card company brought any action or sent any correspondence on his failure to pay?

              Can’t really think of much else at the moment.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                He has paid with his checking account, , the only mail has come recently as he is trying to resolve the issue. I find it very odd, his balance isn’t high, but he is stubborn and will not pay the fees that they caused to occur. Once things get figured out, he will pay them off and close the acct.

              • I wouldn’t pay the fees they are imposing from an error on their end either…

  10. Just A Citizen says:

    More evidence of why the Muslim leadership is castigating the “west”. Read closely to find the reference about how we “invaded” them as the reason. Never mind, you simply won’t find it. But you will find the general attitude expressed by the man who started the Muslim Brotherhood. The WEST is morally corrupt and thus its culture is an affront to Islam.


    Now for the twist of the day…………….. Notice how his rhetoric closely matches that of the hard core Evangelicals in the USA. Those keepers of Christ’s words who keep trying to tell the rest of America how to live their private lives.

  11. PeterB in Indianapolis says:
    • Cold winter due to global warming leads to poor gdp leads to more energy regulations. Somehow, this all makes sense to the left.

    • PeterB in Indianapolis says:

      What interests me is that the GDP report says it is the 3rd coldest winter, yet the “adjusted” “official” data released by NOAA claim that it is only the 17th coldest winter in the US…. all of the “official adjustments” are merely shenanigans to show warming where there isn’t any. Data from 1910 to 1940 has been adjusted DOWNWARDS by about 1 degree C, whereas data from 1975 onwards has been adjusted UPWARDS by about 0.6 degree C.

      When you “adjust” past data to make the past colder than it really was, and “adjust” recent data to make it warmer than it really is, OBVIOUSLY the “adjusted” data will show a warming trend, because that is exactly how you adjusted it…..

  12. Damn those Dems in Washington! They are so different from those of us that want to be voted in to go to Washington. LOL!


  13. Special delivery for Kathy!

  14. Time for a breather from “Hide and Seek” and my good friend BF. .

    Thinking about the good Sergeant that we have “brought home”. I guess in about 40 years he will probably be the secretary of State for the duchy of Washington (upper).

    Before I call for the impeachment of the President it is worth looking out how it really is Bush’s fault. In the real world, in the post WW 2 world these five gentlemen would be a mouldering in the grave and there would be no opportunity to “trade” them for anyone. Mr Bush, just as dumb in his own way chose to sit on them and play stupid with congress over their status. By all accounts we seem to have enough on them to have tried, convicted and executed them long, long ago. Best we can do now is spread the word that they all cooperated with us and gave away their comrades then hope for the best. Oh, also that they now like bacon.

  15. Just A Citizen says:

    I am off again to tackle my remodeling job. Two weeks of hammer and sheetrock, etc.

    Then one week to do final packing and hauling.






  16. It’s no longer feasible for the govt to import terrorism, so now we must grow it here at home! Note that Holder called the Ft Hood shooting an act of terror, not an act of workplace violence: http://www.prisonplanet.com/holder-to-create-homegrown-terrorism-task-force.html

  17. How do you preserve freedom? I’ll guess everyone has their own opinion on this, but I will start the ball rolling. It begins by the individual and staying out of other peoples business (something Democrats are totally incapable of). So, now that we have established that freedom is based on individual action first, how do we preserve freedom against those who want to interfere in the individuals life? Let’s begin with the tool that is most often used and an example of another potential intrusion of individual lives: http://freebeacon.com/issues/usda-creating-1-9-million-research-center-devoted-to-changing-americans-food-choices/

    Notice how this presumed authority is divulged. Then put that together with the welfare class and add it all up…..it’s called slavery.

  18. WARNING-this article is very hard to read-it talks about the holocaust. So proceed with caution and pass it by if that is best for you.


    • Wow! She makes very valid points.

      • “I was overcome by the stark realization that during the Holocaust, these killings were government-sanctioned; they were overseen by physicians; they were sanitized, euphemized, and standardized.”

        “parallels of sanitized killing, standardized body disposal, euphemized language, government sanctioning, and lack of public outcry.”

        “Here, death is a science, a process, something to be perfected and honed.”

        ” One day, I am absolutely convinced you and I will be those Dachau civilians. In one fashion or another, we will come face to face with the horrors we have ignored. And just as the civilians of Dachau wept, you and I will weep for our apathy.

        Unless we take a stand—now and forever–against the greatest horror of our generation…”

        Yes, sadly she does.

        • No…..no, she doesn’t.

          At least not based on what you wrote – not going to waste my time reading the whole article.

          • That sir, is because your mind is already made up! I have struggled for years with the whole abortion thing and the issue of freedom. I’m sorry, I come down on the baby’s side. There are few exemptions I would even consider anymore. have had the opportunity way too many times to be asked to say a prayer for a little preemie born months early weighing between a pound and a pound and a half. Have seen many, many little ones born with Down’s syndrome become adults capable of functioning with little supervision.

            Who says that some little, apparently trite phrase cannot completely change your outlook. Once, Colleen Dewherst was reading a Mom’s letter left at the Vietnam Wall in DC. Just one line got me, “I was happy to have had you those short 21 years and go through the suffering of losing you at such a young age rather than never to have known you at all’. That did, does and always probably will blow me away.

            The place for abortion is BEFORE conception. Like AIDS, pregnancy is very preventable.

            • “..pregnancy is very preventable.”

              And that is why, as I’ve said probably 1,000 times on this site alone, I am all for taking steps to further reduce unwanted pregnancies. Rather than go back and forth ad nauseum on whether abortion should be outlawed, let’s actually focus our attentions on where we can come to agreement – reducing unwanted pregnancy and with it the need for abortion.

              • Exactly! Unfortunately though just how do you make people use protection. Same for AIDS we have known how preventable it is for so long yet there are new cases every day!

              • Well for starters we can quit with the abstinence only education campaign, we can provide some funding for contraception, etc. etc. etc.

                Came across an interesting article the other day in regards to the real world impact of all these restrictions causing abortion clinics to close down. Turns out they don’t quite operate to reduce abortion; rather, they wind up causing more delays and increased wait times, thereby resulting in an increase in the number of second-term abortions…

    • Sometime think Ralph Peters is over the top – but think he got it right this time:


    • Nah, Carney already explained it. When he signed the law, he made an official notation on the law that special circumstances meant it did not count. That must be somewhere in the constitution, somewhere, right?

      • Regardless of whether or not Obama broke the law on this, politically speaking, I just don’t see how the GOP can make a huge case against him (with respect to actions taken to bring a POW back home) and not risk completely handing the Dems the next election.

        Thought exercise — had Obama not taken this action and the GOP found out he could have arranged for the exchange, what do you think the GOP’s response would have been?

        • Well, here are some things that might help. The same swap was brought up in 2011 and Congress basically told Obama to pound sand. The POW may not have been a POW afterall, it seems he may be a deserter who freely left his post, then through radio interceptions wanted contact with the Taliban. Deserter may turn out to be out right traitor, but time will tell and most of this will not be an issue for the election. The investigation will not be concluded until, at the earliest, after the election.

          There will not be any impeachment proceedings prior to the election anyway (if at all). This is a short term story. Just another in the ever growing list of scandals. This clown makes Nixon look like a virgin choir boy.

          • Oh, that is IF there is an investigation allowed to occur. Why should the Lawbreaker-N-Chief stop with just breaking one law? Nobody is going to hold him accountable anyway, their all on the same f—ing team.

          • There is no question that the younger Bergdahl committed the crime (punishable by death) of desertion. Blatantly anti-American emails between Bergdahl and his father, discussing his desire to do so mere days and hours prior to his disappearance, prove it. The troops with whom he was deployed have gone public with the slam-dunk case that he deserted, and the Pentagon even acknowledged it as far back as 2010. Furthermore, irate members of the intelligence community are coming forward and describing that our government’s secret file on Bergdahl (officially sealed until 2019) confirms that Bergdahl joined the Taliban as a sympathizer and collaborator.
            Read more at http://clashdaily.com/2014/06/audacity-hussein-obama-rubs-jihad-faces/#pfGIbV9bhwxkfhKP.99

        • I don’t think they would have gone for the deal. As much as I may dislike McCain or Graham, there is no way those two would have let the guys in Gitmo walk.

          • Please – both McCain and Graham are on record as having supported such an exchange and to do anything to get an American soldier home as early as several months ago I believe….this is all political grandstanding at its worst.

            By the way, best quote I came across in terms of the issue of desertion boiled down to this — it doesn’t matter; he is an American soldier and you do everything in your power to bring him home; then, once home, you can deal with the issue of desertion and any other things he may be accused of.

            Given there is a real issue here of how Obama went about the exchange and the letter of the law; this is a proper discussion to be had, especially with respect to the entire practice of signing statements to begin with. But these other issues are just plain BS. And, as I’ve said, I don’t see how the issue of impeaching Obama for breaking the law (in this context of taking action to bring an American home) is a winner with the elections coming up.

            • There won’t be any impeachment happening before the election. Probably not after either. The question really should be, when will the people start demanding actions against law breakers. If you and I are expected to follow the law, is it OK if the President or a Senator doesn’t? I hate to say this, the next Pres, who may not be a Democrat, will do the same shit. Then what? You guys going to lose your minds over it and scream bloody murder (yes)? This is just the beginning of this government going rogue. They no longer represent the people, they work for the banking cabal and the money-changers. Just don’t forget to vote and give your approval to their actions, I’ll be deer hunting 🙂

              • But, it will probably be said that Obama just learned about the desertion reports on the news, like he seems to learn everything. What a complete joke of an American President. I would be embarrassed to have voted for him, thankfully, I didn’t.

            • From Twitter:

              We leave no soldier behind–unless, of course, he’s on the wait list at the VA.

            • Check out Korean War POW’s who stayed. I’m sorry, absolutely everyone seems to have forgotten the Vietnam POW’s and the fact that there was credible Intel that many who never came home had been captured and had been photographed. Leave no one behind……my ass!

              Check out Ron Dodge USN. There is absolutely no doubt of his capture……..then what? Now, we know guys like Lance Sijin (MOH) was basically beaten to death in captivity and there was no attempt to cover up his death but the Dodge thing, that is interesting to say the least.



              Got a link for McCain and Graham agreeing to let those five go?

              • “In the clearest contradiction, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) told CNN’s Anderson Cooper in February that he “would be inclined to support” “an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man,” like the one Taliban officials had offered in 2012. He has since labeled Obama’s deal “ill-founded” and a “mistake.””

                To be fair I am not certain McCain’s comments dealt with these specific five detainees, so there is some wiggle room here on McCain’s part. But the gist of his comments is that he would support an exchange of prisoners. But it strikes me as a bit absurd that an actual POW would fail to support taking actions to secure the return of another POW…

                Also, as for the Korean and Vietnam POWs — and the US was wrong back then for not taking further action to try to secure the release of these POWs. But how does the failure to act in the past equate to today’s action being deemed wrong?

              • That’s the rub, we hold other prisoners beside these five but obviously they got who they wanted. Both Graham and McCain have been looking pretty weak and stupid of late, this obviously played right into their hands. Graham is an Air Force JAG officer I cannot see either guy going for this deal. On the other hand, as Charles Krauthammer has pointed out, Israel released 1,000 POW’s to get back one guy. I’m sure that they were not saints.

                Here’s the Bobby Garwood story from Vietnam. If there is a parallel, this is probably it.

                It is a convenient myth to say that we leave no one behind. Historically that is something that the Marine Corps takes great pride in. The Army on the other hand tends to scoot. The bug-out from North Korea is something that no one wants to remember.

    • That picture says a thousand words 😦

    • Wonder what our SUFA-ites lefties think of their guy now? Has he finally broken through your low threshold or is their still more damage/lies/corruptness for him to do before you finally say enough?

      • Nah, was watching MSNBC before, it is congress fault. They oppose releasing anybody from Gitmo. Caught dear leader from Poland before where he said that the stroke of a pen (regarding Russia and the Ukraine) cannot change anything. Anybody out there, ANYBODY AT ALL, see the irony? Dumbest MF to ever come down the pike.

    • This is crazy shit that plays into Russian paranoia.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        The article claims nothing about Russia threatening us, but the other way around. If anything , it feed out own government and the paranoia surrounding them. They are far from innocent virgins you know?

        • I understand that but the Russkies have always felt threatened by the west. The little known fact that we actually, along with the French and British invaded them after WW 1 is another reason. The post 1991 US mentality of signing up former east bloc countries into NATO and then planning to put “defensive”missiles into Poland were another couple of winners.

          Actually watched an interview last night with an NYU Russian expert, pointing out carefully, step by step how the US brought about the current mess in the Ukraine. I absolutely loved it when he compared, line by line, issue by issue the demonstrations against the “illegal” government in Kiev that ultimately brought it down within exactly the same actions being done now in the eastern Ukrainian cities. He pointed out that of course, according to us, the guys in Kiev were “freedom fighters” while the guys in the East are “thugs”. Nice to see someone get it right for a change.

          After Oct ’62, when I talked to Air Force types who were in the SAGE building at McGuire AFB that October for Defcon 2, I never, never want to get that close again. God Bless Khrushchev for acting like an adult. All the sins he committed in his life were mitigated by the leadership he showed in October ’62 . That, by the way is a 180 degree turn away from where I used to be in the ’60’s but as we get older, we learn more.

          No one can guarantee that Putin is a Krushchev, so, pressuring him and Russia is about the dumbest damn thing anyone can do. I do not believe that the US would ever “first strike”. Yes, I think that Obama is a complete loon but even he and his sycophants ain’t that dumb. I think I should go to the library and take out “Dr. Strangelove” again. Maybe we all should.

  19. At first, the care he received from the VA was adequate, and McMaster had no problem accessing the medication he needed to treat the pain from the injury he suffered in 2004.

    But when Obama took office, everything spiraled out of control.

    Under the new VA administration, veterans were assigned case workers who micromanaged the details of each veteran’s claims.

    Rather than working with the veterans, these caseworkers made the veterans’ transition back into normal life as difficult as possible.

    They would often eliminate access to vital medications.

    At one time, McMaster reports that instead of continuing his much-needed morphine medication, they actually pulled it from him because they believed he was selling it.

    • Morphine? Any medical professionals out there? My experience with morphine is they want you off ASAP. The doubting Thomas in me wants more info, a hell of a lot more info than one former soldier telling me he has a problem. I need chapter and verse, especially about the morphine issue. What was the injury that he sustained?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        The has protocols which aren’t always in the best interest of the patient. Each injury has it’s own pain level, I had foot surgery in mid March, I have no pain pills from the VA,, despite constant inflammation and pain. Walking can be very painful at times, it already know their protocols so I don’t bother to ask. Not sure that’s what one calls quality health care, but that’s what socialized medicine is. Sucks to be in pain constantly, but that’s what one gets when the govt provides healthcare, too bad most Liberals can’t comprehend that.

    • Having a case worker doesn’t sound like a bad idea either. Seems like it would help not hurt the patients-How would this be a con?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Caseworkers are not for the patients, there to keep costs down, don’t be fooled by more lies from DC. Death Panels do exist under the ACA, as will case workers for the eldrly

  20. Sedgewick says:
  21. A lot of children crossing the border-what should we do about this situation? Is this a humanitarian issue where we should take care of them or what?

    • Highly suspicious, isn’t it? Who is funding and coordinating this effort? D13, can you weigh in?

    • That, my dear, is exactly what they want. Now, down the road a piece, the ones that have not been picked up will start running with gangs. Kind of typical youth behavior. somebody has to take care of you. The little girls of course will wind up where little girls alone in big cities usually wind up, the boys. well, it will be time to build more prisons to warehouse them until ICE releases them.

      Time top start building that giant noise barrier in the South!

  22. Sedgewick says:
  23. People from MI are ______________________ (fill in the blank). Do we know anyone from there?


  24. More great news! BTW, anyone here get that $2500 per household cut yet?


  25. Sedgewick says:

    Would Jesus Approve of Modern Christianity?

    Recently, over 40,000 people answered this poll question, “If Jesus suddenly came back to earth today, would He approve or disapprove of modern Christianity?” It might surprise you to know 87% of Americans answered that Jesus would disapprove of modern Christianity…


    • While I’m a Christian and do believe in a higher power, I do not agree with what Christianity has become, thus, I don’t attend any church services. I have found that I’m much more at peace by keeping my religious beliefs and prayers private. I do not agree very often with what I have heard spoken from modern day preachers. Just Sayin 🙂

      • Sedgewick says:

        For lack of a better term, I would call you an ‘Unorganized Christian’. You don’t agree with a lot of what you hear, so you simply exercise your right to free association (or dissociation in this case). You get more out of it that way.

        I liked the article because it brings up some very good points. It is similar to the idea being pitched in recent years about what the founders would think of the US Government.

        If I had a time machine, one of the first things I would do would be to find ‘Jesus’ and bring him to the present, …maybe grab the founders on the way back. Take them to a compound somewhere to educate orient and acclimate them to the modern world before turning them loose.

        I am guessing there would be one hell of a scolding.

        • “You get more out of it that way.” That is an assumption, one I hear over and over. I don’t find it to be true. Might just mean one has a problem accepting that not everyone in any church is going to agree about everything but there is something to be said about the value of worshiping as a group and working together to do good. It also helps keep one centered something that is hard to do in the world.

          • My Dad was not a church goer but a religious man in his own way. I was raised Catholic and he was Russian Orthodox . The fact that when they got married it had to be in the back of the church (1942) did not seem to faze him one bit, at least he never said anything about it. Personally, with more modern sensibilities, I probably would have been livid myself. I must say though, the church and other churches have actually managed to get rid of some of the more ridiculous nonsense in that by 1984 when he died, the Catholic Church had no problem giving him a send off with a funeral mass.

            I agree with VH, I go to church about 90% of the time. I enjoy parts of the ritual, rarely enjoy a sermon (few are any good!) and use the rest of the time to think deep thoughts. This past March, Denise and I went to France on a pilgrimage. Part of the process is visiting religious sites and going to mass every day. I must say that seeing the devotion of visitors at places like Lourdes can really impact your thinking not to mention meeting the rather bright people who have taken vows and spend their lives either in contemplation or by doing good works. It is awfully hard to keep my cynicism going full bore when confronted with that.

            If you are in the least bit intelligent, I think you can divorce the parts of organized religion that you object to and still embrace the central core, as long as there is a central core. I have had too many of my friends turn their backs on the church with excuses that range from the recent scandals to rejecting small rituals. I was raised by open minded parents and fortunate to go to Catholic Schools that (contrary to popular opinion) encouraged me to both think and question. So, while every now and then the closet agnostic in me surfaces, he usually returns to the closet and is replaced by someone fairly well grounded, maybe not as much as I would like to be, in faith.

            Another point if you will. people who hate my church and most other churches constantly go on about the church rejecting and condemning sinners.This is another big lie similar to the one that says if you oppose illegal immigration, you oppose all immigration. Not quite pilgrim! My church has always said love the sinner, hate the sin and as hard as it may be to do that some time, I try to.

          • Sedgewick says:

            VH: ” “You get more out of it that way.” That is an assumption, one I hear over and over. ”

            Gman: ” I have found that I’m much more at peace by keeping my religious beliefs and prayers private. ”

            I was going on what he said. He chooses to practice religion on an individual basis. It works well for him.

            ” …but there is something to be said about the value of worshiping as a group and working together to do good. ”

            I very much agree.

            I don’t knock organized religion. There are a lot of good churches out there full of good people doing good things. I do, however recognize the inherent dysfunctions and conflicts of churches that take political positions and/or preach fear, hate, and/or something contrary to their bible. The effects on society are often somewhat adverse.

            Why should anyone be forced to live by the religious values and practices of another?

            Why do so many ‘accuse’ Obama of being a Muslim as if it were a bad thing? If he really is a closet Muslim, why should he feel to hide it? Who cares if he is a Muslim? Where does this stuff originate?

            The above posted link to the article about the congregation in L.A. is a good example of the conflict between individual and collective beliefs.

            The bible says ‘here is a list of actions called sins, that will piss off god and those around you, as well as frustrate you and inevitably wreck your life and spiritual state of being if you continue doing them. So don’t do them. For those who have trouble keeping up with details, there is the golden rule, and as a general guideline, love thy neighbor and you should be okay.’ …except for gay men, because they deserve to die and go to hell.

            The preacher can’t love his son at home and condemn him in church, so he resolves this conflict by loving and accepting him, and changes his position at church. Subsequently, some of his people leave. He stands firm on love while they stand firm in (insert any word but bigotry here)______. How many of them vote with Leviticus?

            What exactly is an “official position” of a church?

            How many people would be upset if there were a ‘gay pride day’ at the Vatican? Does “Hate the sin but not the sinner” mean that Pope Francis would be okay with it if the abominations promised not to perform any homosexual acts? Would they mind if he covered Leviticus that day at service?

            Should Rutherford County Tennessee prohibit the sale of pork similarly to how it bans alcohol on Sundays?

            • Good question. Catholics operate more or less along the line that you just don’t do it. You may have the homosexual inclination but it is only a sin when you act on it. Think back to the FDNY chaplain Father Michael Judge. A Priest, an acknowledged homosexual, but a non-practicing one.

              There was a time in the culture let alone the Catholic Church when these things were considered to be “crosses to bear”. As hard as it might be for people to understand in the current culture, acting on impulses was once considered not too bright.

              Regarding the pastor and his son. Can you still love your child but not embrace his or her actions? I think so. Your child will probably reject you for that but you always leave the door open.

              • Sedgewick says:

                You can define it however you like. I am only trying to be thought provocative and focus on the inherent nature of organized religion.

                There are conflicts within the bible as well as conflicts within organized religion and between religions or religions and government[s] or social institutions and subcultures.

                If everyone practiced like Gman, where would those conflicts be?

                It is similar to government in that centralization takes away from individualism.

                Do you have to have governments and/or organized religions to believe in something or practice a particular lifestyle?

        • I’m content with my choice about religion. I respect those who practice whatever religion they choose, until they decide to force it upon me, that’s when the buck stops. Religion hasn’t been kind in our history, to the extent of used as a reason for war. That’s one of the things that should change, I don’t think those who are worshipped would approve of the violence and murder being done in their name.

          • I’m glad you are content-I am not judging your decision-I am arguing that “people are better off without organized religion” isn’t a given. And I strongly but respectfully state that most people are not better off , IMO if they don’t go to Church.

            • THat’s whats great about NOT being like most people 😀

              • 🙂 That’s fine G-if you’re sure, you are able to worship God as he should be worshiped all by yourself- so be it-course the Bible does encourage us to worship together.

                Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV

                And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

                Matthew 18:20 ESV

                For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

                Colossians 3:16 ESV / 59 helpful votes

                Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

                Hebrews 12:1 ESV / 29 helpful votes

                Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

                Matthew 12:30 ESV / 27 helpful votes

                Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

                1 Corinthians 14:33 ESV / 16 helpful votes

                For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches.

                And I find I am much better at staying focused on God, on reading my Bible, on praying and even helping others if I go to church with others who also love God and encourage me to stay centered. Maybe you are just stronger and more disciplined than I am. But even with all that aside-there is just a feeling of joy and peace I miss when I am not in that Church-there’s something special about entering God’s house!

  26. Sedgewick says:
    • i don’t know-but what are we to do about it?

      How about we go to Mexico and Central America and take out the drug cartels. I know we can’t but I sure would like too.

      I suspect D13 is busy helping handle this situation. Will be very interested in hearing his take when he gets back.

      But just releasing them into the Country without any means of support-this is a really bad idea!

      • I’d bet that if they were black or Muslims, Obama would be treating them much better. He has proven his prejudice time and time again.

        • look man, there are terrible things everywhere. What the hell can we do except give them a one way ticket home. Cheaper in the long run. DO NOT get sucked in, that is what they want. Give them status and Mom and Pop show up along with hermanos, hermanas tios and tias and of course lets not forget the Grandparents in time for Medicare.

          Ship em out!

          • In my head I know you are right about the consequences-my heart and head sees a bunch of children that at this moment in time need help and I must judge the consequences of our actions. So how do we go about returning them without causing them harm?

            • Plane ticket? Seriously, not returning them causes more harm. It just encourages more to come. What will happen to the ones who do not get caught? Prostitution and abuse for the girls, gangs and abuse for the boys. This is an insoluble nightmare.

    • Like the only way to show your displeasure and leave the service is by becoming a deserter and if all the stories are true and they certainly seem to be, walking into the arms of the enemy. The guy is either a traitor or he needs psychological help.

      But Bucks right-people will be conflicted when the term POW is used-but I think the administration is making a bad mistake -if their plan of action is to attack our servicemen and women who didn’t walk away from their posts.

    • Let me begin that the Administration simply don’t understand veterens, they don’t seem to like them and are going to choke on their own stupidity, including the Usurper N Chief. Veterans do not call a fellow vet a deserter or traitor unless it is fact. There is a sense of great betrayal about those who do such things, and vets would just assume shoot a deserter or traitor than chance the legal system failing them. I can put this in terms that may be easier to understand, I wish my ex-wife good luck and prosperity, even though I really don’t like her. I would never wish a member of my team who deserted in a war zone anything but a slow painful death, as there would be pure hatred for this person. The administration have no clue what garbage they are saying and are just making deeper enemies of vets as each day goes on. I would like to see Obama arrested and charged with high treason, along with many others in his administration, but we won’t get that lucky. 🙄

  27. Well, at nobody is confusing Progressives with intelligent life forms 🙂 http://politicaloutcast.com/2014/06/california-proposes-license-breed/

  28. So now they want the patient to dictate the procedure necessary to the doctor and the doctor must conform to their wishes or should lose their license? And they call themselves pro-choice? Good lord.


    • gmanfortruth says:

      One day everyone will realize that the Lefties are PRO slavery, in every sense of the the meaning

    • I’m growing to hate the word discrimination-I’m beginning to think the very nice idea that we shouldn’t discriminate is going to rob us of every ounce of freedom we still have and at the same time further the advancement of pure evil.

      • VH, do what I do, stop pretending to be politically correct and speak your mind. If someone don’t like it, tell them kindly and with a big smile on your face “Go Fuck yourself” . That usually shuts people up because they realize your not going to take their Liberal Bullshit. 🙂

        • I’m not concerned with being politically correct-I simply try to be polite-I’m also not aiming to get people to shut up-I’m trying to change their minds. 🙂

          • You’re dealing with brainwashed dolts whose only method of changing their mind would have to come from the end of a gun barrel. You can’t fix stupid! 😉

  29. I found this entertaining and quite funny, despite being also quite true 😀 http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2014/06/05/trigger-please-n1847738

  30. Sedgewick says:

    Here are some interesting polling results:


    With the exception of churches and other places of worship, most Americans believe that employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception at no cost. However, Americans draw distinctions based on the type and size of the employer. Opinions about the types of employers that should be required to provide health insurance that includes contraception coverage are largely unchanged from 2012.

    Roughly 6-in-10 Americans say that publicly-held corporations (61%) and privately-owned corporations (57%) should be required to provide their employees with health insurance that includes contraception at no cost.

    A smaller majority (51%) of the public say privately-owned small businesses should be required to provide health care coverage that includes contraception, while 46% disagree.
    Majorities of Americans say that religiously-affiliated hospitals (56%) and religiously-affiliated colleges (52%) should be required to provide insurance that covers contraception for their employees.

    Only 42% of the public believes that churches or other places of worship should be required to provide health insurance that includes contraception coverage to employees; a majority (53%) oppose requiring churches or other places of worship to provide health insurance that includes contraception coverage to employees..
    There are notable differences in views about the contraception mandate by religious affiliation.

    A majority of Catholics believe that publicly-held corporations (56%), privately-owned corporations (54%), and privately-owned small businesses (53%) should be required to provide their employees with health insurance that includes contraception. However, Catholics are divided about whether religiously-affiliated hospitals (50% should, 47% should not) or religiously-affiliated colleges (49% should, 49% should not) should be required to provide contraception coverage for employees with their health insurance plans. A majority (56%) of Catholics say that churches and other places of worship should not be required to provide this type of coverage.

    White evangelical Protestants are unique among religious groups in their opposition to the employer contraception coverage mandate. Four-in-ten (40%) white evangelical Protestants say privately-owned corporations should have to provide health insurance that includes contraception while 45% say the same of publicly-held corporations. Fewer than 4-in-10 white evangelical Protestants say religiously- affiliated colleges (35%), religiously-affiliated hospitals (39%), privately-owned businesses (34%) and churches (26%) should be required to provide this type of health insurance.

    Religiously unaffiliated Americans express nearly uniform views in the opposite direction. A majority of unaffiliated Americans believe that any type of employer—including churches and places of worship (58%)—should provide their employees with health insurance that covers contraception.

    There are strong partisan divisions over whether privately-owned corporations should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that include contraception. Nearly three-quarters of Democrats (74%) and a majority of independents (56%) agree that these corporations should be required to provide this type of coverage, compared to only one-third (33%) of Republicans. Nearly two-thirds (65%) of Republicans say privately-owned corporations should not be required to do this.

    There are also dramatic differences by generation, with younger Americans expressing greater support for employer-provided contraception coverage across categories of employer.

    Nearly 6-in-10 (57%) of young adults (age 18-29) say privately- owned corporations should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception, compared to 49% of seniors (age 65 and over). Young adults are also more likely to say that even churches and other places of worship should be required to provide this type of coverage (45% vs. 28%).

    Refusal of Services by Small Business Owners on Religious Grounds

    Americans overwhelming reject the notion that small business owners should be allowed to refuse to provide services or goods to individuals because they are gay or lesbian, atheist, Jewish or black, even if doing so would violate the owners’ religious beliefs. Fewer than 1-in-5 Americans say that small business owners should be able to refuse services on religious grounds to individuals who happen to be gay or lesbian (16%), atheist (15%), Jewish (12%), or black (10%).

    White evangelical Protestants are somewhat more likely than Americans overall to say that small business owners ought to be able to refuse service to gay and lesbian people (26%) and atheists (21%), but they are not more likely to say the same about people who are Jewish (12%) or black (8%).

    Perceptions of Threats to Religious Liberty

    A majority (54%) of Americans believe that the right of religious liberty is being threatened in America today. However, there is substantial disagreement on this question by political affiliation, age and religious affiliation.

    Republicans are twice as likely as Democrats to say that religious liberty is being threatened (80% vs. 40%). A majority of Democrats (55%) say that religious liberty is not under threat in the U.S. Independents are more closely divided with 51% reporting that religious liberty is under threat, while 43% say it is not.
    More than any other religious group, white evangelical Protestants believe that religious liberty is being threatened in the U.S. today. More than 8-in-10 (83%) white evangelical Protestants express this view, compared to 55% of Catholics and 53% of white mainline Protestants. Half (50%) of minority Protestants also perceive a threat to religious liberty in the U.S., but a substantial minority (42%) disagree. Less than one-third (31%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans believe religious liberty is being threatened, while twice as many (62%) say it is not.
    More than 6-in-10 (61%) seniors (age 65+) believe that religious liberty is being threatened, while only roughly 4-in-10 (41%) young adults agree. Most (54%) younger Americans (ages 18-29) do not believe religious liberty is being threatened.

    Concerns about the Role of Religion in Public Life

    Americans are divided about what constitutes the greatest problem regarding the role of religion in public life. Thirty percent say the removal of religion from public places is the most serious problem, while 25% say government interference with free religious practice is the most serious problem. Roughly one-quarter (24%) say that religious groups attempting to pass laws that force their beliefs on others is the most serious problem, while fewer than 1-in-10 (9%) say the lack of protection for smaller religious groups is the biggest problem.

    White evangelical Protestants are more likely than other religious groups to express concern about the removal of religion from public places. More than 4-in-10 (43%) white evangelical Protestants say that the public diminishment of religion is the most serious problem. Thirty-six percent of white mainline Protestants say the same. Catholics (28%) and religiously unaffiliated Americans (16%) are less likely to identify removal of religion from public places as a major problem.

    Town Hall Meetings and Public Prayer

    Nearly 8-in-10 (77%) Americans support allowing public officials to open meetings, such as town hall meetings, with a prayer. Only 20% of the public expresses opposition to prayer in these settings. There is considerable agreement in views about public prayer among religious, political and age groups.

    Even a majority (58%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans support allowing public officials to open meetings with a prayer.

    • And what do you conclude from all these statistics?

    • Sed,

      Here is one for you. My wife had her last Pre-K show today at Academy of Our Lady School. She is retiring next week after 38 years in the profession. She had the little ones sing the following, it is the fourth verse in “My Country tis of Thee” . This was required to be taught to the kids in grammar school by the NYC Board of Ed, as recently as 1977 when Denise left that system. Note the words:

      Our fathers’ God to Thee,
      Author of liberty,
      To Thee we sing.
      Long may our land be bright,
      With freedom’s holy light,
      Protect us by Thy might,
      Great God our King.

      Those Protestants who established Public Education back in the day were really something. Too bad they could not pass it on to their more sophisticated heirs.

      Well, give you any ideas about where we’ve been and where we are going?


      Stats are interesting, if you read them you realize just how correct Walt Kelley’s cartoon character Pogo was in the ’70’s. “We have met the enemy and he is us”. The stats tend to contradict each other. “We are afraid of it but we want it except when we don’t want it because we are afraid of it.” National schizophrenia at its best!

      • All people should simply think for themselves. How? Because most people have no idea how to think for themselves, because there is far too much outside interference. I can almost bet a small fortune, that most people who post here have never had or taken the opportunity to take the time AWAY from all outside sources to actually think for themselves.

        It requires one to find themselves, alone and without outside interference. That, in itself requires effort, that most will never attempt. I was lucky and had and took those opportunities when I was young. Now, I have that opportunity whenever I choose. It’s mind numbing to be alone for a lengthy time and all you have is nature, no people, no tv, no noise, other than what is provided by nature. It is a great experience. Very few can understand, much like few understand Black Flag. Try it and find yourself, it’s great 😀

        • Tuning out “noise” is an acquired habit, I totally agree. Some of my most religious moments are when I am alone in the woods, especially with a star filled night sky. Big thoughts, really big thoughts. As a kid growing up in NYC I would go up to the roof of the apartment building at night. The high parapet walls usually did an excellent job of blocking out light and most noise. Just lying there on my back looking up, you had a sense of the enormity of the universe. I cannot tell you how many times i have talked to folks about that and draw a blank stare. I feel sorry for them because they just cannot put aside the world for the moment and think about the bigger picture. Sometimes I think it is fear on their part. Other times I think they are missing something in their core.

          • Yes Sir! I take walks at night when I’m stressed, down the dark powerline, no flashlight. The stars are amazing, the forest is also amazing. I’m lucky because I can just walk into the woods for hours, then come home. Not many have that option, but it can be really soothing to the mind and soul. Great post!

      • Sedgewick says:

        Where is this great and mighty ‘god’ protecting our liberty? …Asleep?

        • Ain’t you ever heard, “the Lord helps those who help themselves”. Free will,my friend, free will.

          See my notation from yesterday re: “My country tis of thee”. We, kicked him to the curb, not the other way around.

          I am not a literal believer in the bible, the stories, like the parables from the new testament are meant to be instructive. While back, I made the comparison between the current state of our society and the story of the tower of Babel. Gettin a bit big for our britches we are, God or no God, doing a damn fine job of bringing ourselves down.

          • Sedgewick says:

            ” I am not a literal believer in the bible, the stories, like the parables from the new testament are meant to be instructive. ”

            I approach the bible as a student. Like you, I see a lot of gnostic instruction, lessons on how to move closer to godliness.

            Have you ever seen one of those predominately black southern churches where they are all singing and dancing and rejoicing, chanting and laughing, excited and generally having a good time? …after service, they have a picnic and hang out to enjoy each others’ company or organize to do something good for their community and/or help each other, etc?

            (…kinda like how VH approaches church)

            Okay, …they’re an example god’s people. …not because of what version of the bible they read or whatever loyalties to this or that category or religion, not necessarily because of what their preacher says, or the building they’re in, or any political or social position they may have.

            It’s because people are the temple of god, and they demonstrate godliness through things like love, happiness, and togetherness, charity and good will. That ambient energy (or whatever you call it) from all those good happy people coming together, is the spirit of god.

            The peace you feel when you are out in the quiet wilderness, is the spirit of god. The way you feel when you lovingly make a baby with your wife, is the spirit of god. When you do a good deed and make someone happy, that feeling you get from it, is the spirit of god.

            It is about finding that godliness and keeping it as a part of you.

            All the people out there with all the hang-ups, fearing and hating, harassing and getting wrapped up in the nonsense and calling it religion, …completely missed the point.

            It is largely because they were taught to do so as a matter of indoctrination into systems and institutions that have existed for generations which are divisive and guide people to accept evil as a way of life, …of which will eventually completely enslave humanity.

            I think your Tower of Babel analogy was spot on. I also think that instead of waiting for a list of fairy-gods to fix everything, we need to get our shit together, starting with getting along in spite of the systems in place that pit us against each other.

            Maybe then, we can find some kind of standard for truth and righteousness in which to base a better world for future generations.

            …or whatever, …because on personal level, I’ve got virtually nothing at stake in this world, thus it’s all the same to me.

            • The template is out there for your better world. You just have to follow it. You, me, all of us need a big dose of humility too. The lack thereof is what gets us into trouble. .

              • Sedgewick says:

                I’ll argue that template can be found from within.

                And I agree with the idea of humility as it is what allows us to put aside ego in order to see things more clearly.

                …been there, done that. I’ve eaten more than my fair share of humble pie in life, and I will be the first to admit what a piece of shit I am.

                That last sentence was about pointing out that my interest in these things I bring up is not so much about me, as I have absolutely nothing in this world, nothing to attach my ego to, no love, no hope of a better life, and therefore no reason to care. Consider it or not, it’s whatever. As far as I am concerned, humanity can go fuck itself.

                I am tired of being humble. Life is basically over for me. I am ready to hunt and kill all the fucking pricks who’ve been following me around stalking and harassing me for the last twenty years.


              • Sedgwick, AKA Eric?

              • Bottom Line?

            • Dale A Albrecht says:

              If I remember the story of Tower of Babel correctly, man’s huberous and ego in their attempt to reach heaven and God by building the tower was smashed by God. Wasn’t different languages introduced in the story, so people could not understand each other and therefore get together against God? “Divide and Conquer” Isn’t that the technique the government is currently using by so factionalizing the people no group can get enough people together and challenge the government ergo god, according to the progressives and socialist who are trying to create heaven on earth.

              • Personally, I think God has an exceptional sense of humor. If you ever have time to spare, read Heinlein’s J.O.B. One could say that God was doing us a favor by sowing confusion.

                The government is not smart enough to play God effectively. they do a poor imitation while convincing you that A. there is no God and B. They are the next best thing to there being a God.

  31. It is 5:50 AM in Normandy. 70 years ago today, the Airborne was already on the ground. The assault boats were beginning the run into the beach, The “day of days” had begun…….

    Thanks guys, for what you gave us.

    • Well. It’s 5:30am DST and Obama is on live TV speaking to a crowd at Normandy. I’m having a hard time listening to him, much less believing anything he is saying. The speech should be given by one of the vet sitting there listening.

      • I, this afternoon will retreat to the man cave, pull out a VHS tape from 6 June 1984 and listen to the last REAL president thank “The Boys of Pointe Du Hoc”.

  32. GMan , At the risk of an apples/oranges situation….

    Bergdahl/Snowden..both could be considered traitors. You want one of the men to be hung and one to be honored. What’s up with that? Save the part about one being military and one a civilian. Both have brought shame to the US.

    Same question to Obama. Why go claim Bergdahl as a humanitarian venture but you’d love to get Snowden and have him tried as a doublecrosser?

    Just curious what the feeling is now. I’m sure how I feel about Bergdahl, not sure what to think of Snowden.

    Hi ho, hi ho, it’s off to work I go.

    • Anita, I have said that I was unsure of what to think of Snowden, mainly because he went about doing things the wrong way. I’m still not sure what to think of him, that’s why we have jury trials, if he ever comes back, to discover the truth and serve justice.

      As too Bergdahl, an investigation has already occurred, witnesses have been interviewed. While they served they were told to shut up, which is normal, but now out, the beans are boiling. I believe the words of the vets that served with him, it’s as simple as that. I don’t and likely will NEVER believe anything coming out of Obama’s mouth or from most any other Democrat politician, as well as his administration. I consider Obama a traitor who has and is aiding the enemy of our soldiers who are serving in harms way, on his orders. We should all be calling for his head, simply for breaking the laws so numerously during his dictatorship. But, most are quiet, others are ignorant of anything and some are wanting him to continue to act in illegal and unethical ways.

      While I may seem extreme, it’s mainly because of the disdain for Obama. Nobody is above the law, nobody. At this point I would support the Joint Chiefs ordering the Marines to arrest him and try him before a jury of his peers. I would want a fair trial, but he simply needs removed from office, his is unqualified and is breaking the law. That much is clear. As far as a traitor, that’s my opinion, let a jury decide that.

  33. Buck, as is always the case, my comments are not meant as a personal attack on you (or Bob). I hold my convictions and are very passionate about them. The Bob’s of the world can’t deal with the truth, hence, the personal attack on me. That’s life, I’m used to it from many on the Left. I stand firm on everything I said about Obama, at least I’m honest with him, can’t say the same for his actions. 😉

  34. Dale A Albrecht says:

    If our fearless leader has the authority that he claims he has because he used a “signing statement” saying he will ignore certain provisions of a law passed by congress requiring him to notify Congress about Quantanamo detainees dispositions, why pray tell has he not just release “ALL” the prisoners? And tell congress and the people to pound sand. Congress and the people have NOT given the president the authority to utilize a line item veto, but it seems that the government has found a very convenient work around allowing everyone in government and all previous administrations and future ones the means to do what ever the heck they want to do, regardless of the law as written, but none the less considered within the law. Let’s see the wrath of the government upon the people if we chose to utilize the same technique if we found parts of the laws we deemed inconvenient to our lives and signed and had notarized and filed at our local court those parts we choose to ignore.

    • I like how he can make a notation on the law saying he can ignore it if :”circumstances” dictate. Neat, can’t quite find that section of the Constitution.

    • If these actions, along with past actions are allowed to stand uncontested, then our form or representational government no longer exists. I believe I had mentioned this before, but the States need to make all the pertinent parts of the Declaration of Independence a part of State laws, then enact said law and remove the rogue government. I can’t think of another bloodless way to end the corruption, which is quite deep.

      Today is a sad day in more ways than one. D-Day ended a lot of American lives 70 years ago. Today, it is becoming quite clear our form of Constitutional government is dead as well.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        That is the point….congress has the responsibility to contest and override all of these alleged executive administration rights and subsequent actions. Including regulations not specified by law and unilaterally instituted by agencies under the control of the executive branch. Where was congress during this whole fiasco beginning years ago concerning the VA. It seems to me that congress is only using oversight committees as the means to whip any administration politically. They are more intent on passing more laws that will go out of control just to look like they are doing something, than managing the ones that already exist. The leaders of the world, including ours were not upset about the spying on the people, saying it’s the law and it’s for your own safety. However they really got hacked off when the found out that they were also being also being monitored. Has anything been done???? No, because the political interests all are for the NSA program. And also when they are in power use the same assumed privileges. They do not truly desire to upset the apple cart or gravy train so to speak.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Sounds like the whole lot needs to be removed. Of course the sheople will just turn their head until they are all fully enslaved by our rogue government . Idiots. 🙄

  35. @Buck, Some of the interview stuff from Bergdahl’s troops: http://conservativebyte.com/2014/06/die-6-soldiers-served-bergdahl-seek-answers/

    • http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/obama-and-his-aides-have-lost-their-minds/

      The problem was explained by Fox News judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano, who supported West’s opinion.

      “We have a federal statute which makes it a felony to provide material assistance to any terrorist organization. It could be money, maps, professional services, any asset whatsoever, include human assets,” he said.

      Napolitano argued it is likely the five terrorist leaders will rejoin the campaign against the United States, which constitutes material support.

  36. Dale A Albrecht says:

    Section 7
    1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    *****Given that the ACA originated in the Senate and not the House and the SCOTUS ruled the ACA was constitutional by virtue of the right of Congress to levy taxes, it was nice to see that the SCOTUS has heard the case based on that inconsistancy and we are awaiting a ruling. I seriously doubt they will over rule themselves and admit error.

    2: Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law.

    *****I am not a constitutional lawyer, but this is where I believe the administrations believe they have the right to exclude sections of the law they are signing. However, the constitution makes it clear it is all or nothing. The president is to note objectionable sections and return it for consideration to the house or senate. 2/3 required for an override of the all or nothing veto or a modification of the law by congress and subsequent signature by the president. All parties are negligent, Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of the government and violating the system of checks and balances. To do what the government is doing past and present would require a constitutional ammendment inserting a “Line Item Veto” but none of the party’s wish to be bothered to get a majority of the States to sign off on an amendment…….It’s a bit like open use of your neighbors property and as long as they don’t object it could become yours in time…..The presidents have been doing this for so long they alway use the phrase. “well Bush did it” as an example.

    Section 9

    5: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

    New Internet purchased items tax laws when they come from another state, anyone?

    Section. 10.

    No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

    So far no bill has passed Congress authorizing the States to collect taxes on e-commerce, but the States have gone forward anyway, in violation of the constitution. Much less, it would look like the revenue derived from the estimated $23B would be turned over to the US Treasury Dept, anyway. On top of that the current bill under consideration originated in the Senate, just like the ACA. My take is let the States compete for the warehouses the goods are shipped from. I do believe all taxes should be collected from the local or States of where they were stored and shipped from, just like a business on main street. Example, LL Bean warehouse in Freeport ME. All goods purchased and subsequently shipped from there to anywhere collect sales taxes and retained by Maine. Just like if the customer actually stepped through their front door at the store in Freeport. I would pay the sales tax if actually there and not subsequently pay an NC sales tax. Not then be forced to keep track of and then distribute the taxes collected to the State the customer resided in. If the shipping point is NC or PA they keep the sales tax revenue. I do believe levying a sales tax on any State resident regardless of how they purchased it , in store or internet and then exempting an e-commerce sale from taxation from outside of the state is wrong. I just believe it should be retained by the State at the point of sale, not by the State where the purchaser resided.

  37. Dale A Albrecht says:

    So Vodophone is being praised by civil right groups for coming out about the depth that governments around the world are demanding access to the services they provide. Not to long ago Vodophone broadcast egyption government messages to all their subscribers during the upraising, for fear of reprisal by the Mubarak government. Are not the companies here in the US also afraid of their FCC licenses if they do not comply to government demands. We are supposedly to be a nation of laws with the constitution as the basis of our law. And the SCOTUS the adjudicator of that law. The government used to not be able legally to open your mail or tap your phone without a warrant granted by a judge after reviewing probable cause. (Not that they didn’t do it anyway) But the SCOTUS threw that all out when it concerned the internet services or cell phone use. If the same rules applied to the US mail postal services we would by law be required to mail a letter open and unsealed for inspection by the government and copying and retention. Just because the technology changed does not change the principle and meaning behind the constitution in the 1st place.

    What if all internet and cell phone service providers collectively told their respective governments to bugger off. How does anyone think that would turn out? Our government is actually worse than those we criticize for violations freedom of speech, which is our law and not neccessarily theirs, but our government does it sneeky and below the belt that the affect is the totalitarian affect silencing opposition is the same and claiming it is for our own good and safety to quote Sen. Diane Feinstein. At least dictatorships are open and in your face about their powers to suppress communications.

    • We are not quite to dictatorship yet. However, it may still occur in the not to distant future. I fear that we are on a much worse track, but time will tell.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Having saw this video a few days back, I have concluded that Obama is both evil, because he wants a Nazi style government, and stupid to think he can actually pull it off. His arrogance is unwarranted, his ideology is not the majority. I have complete disdain for Obama, who I see a an unAmerican traitor. 🙂

  38. Continuing in the pattern of stomping out, investigating, putting the IRS on to them, blackmailing any and all dissent.


    • We can suspend and retaliate against the whistle blowers but can’t touch the guilty administrators.

  39. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    Message to the freedom loving people of America. 5% of the worlds population and yet 25% of the worlds incarcerated population.

    The numbers and charts on the wikipedia site are a good summary are repeated or had been picked up by them from innumerable analyses around the world.



    A very significant increase and overall prison population is a result of the changes in drug sentencing, Violent crime is decreasing as is crimes against property. I also believe the increased use of “activist” law where a new law and penalties will solve any percieved problem in society.

    • I don’t buy into these numbers much when you consider many countries allow their “police” to kill with little repercussions. Mexico, Brazil, China, Russia, most Middle East countries… I am not a fan of the drug war or drug laws, but that is only a part of a larger problem. With our entitlement system, we pay people to get high & make babies. Free medical as long as they don’t have a legitimate job. Now you let them starve because they can’t/won’t work and let them die from their drug use, wouldn’t that mostly solve the prison population problem those other countries don’t have?

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