I would like to discuss ISIS/ISIL and the US tactics or strategy in dealing with what we are told is a threat to the United States. But first, let me share what the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission has to say about hunting wild hogs. It may only make sense to me since I have recently been swine hunting.
Feral Hogs are Pests
Feral hogs are not native to the United States. They are an invasive species, a public nuisance and a threat to Arkansas. They compete for food resources, destroy habitat by rooting and wallowing and will eat ground-nesting birds, eggs, fawns and young domestic livestock. They also carry up to 45 bacteria, diseases and parasites, including Trichinellosis, Brucellosis and swine herpes virus.
Hunting and shooting feral pigs has been implemented for the last few decades. It can chase feral hogs away from crops or food plots temporarily, but they soon return or become a problem for a neighboring landowner. Studies show at least 66 percent of a hog population must be removed each year just to prevent it from growing. Hunting has shown to reduce hog populations by only 8 to 50 percent.
The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission recognizes large-scale trapping as the most efficient and economical means currently available to reduce feral hog populations.
Sport hunting of feral hogs has been more hindrance to hog removal than benefit. Illegal relocation of hogs for hunting purposes has spread the problem to new areas. The shooting of individual hogs also thwarts large-scale trapping efforts by agencies because increased disturbance makes it nearly impossible to catch the whole sounder, or family group, at once.
http://www.agfc.com/hunting/Pages/HuntingRegulationsFeralHog.aspx
Lets ponder these statements for a minute. “Hunting has shown to reduce hog populations by only 8 to 50 percent. Sport hunting of feral hogs has been more hindrance to hog removal than benefit. The shooting of individual hogs also thwarts large-scale trapping efforts by agencies because increased disturbance makes it nearly impossible to catch the whole sounder, or family group, at once.”
Now let me compare this to what I see as our war strategy. We began fighting terrorism in a new manner with the change in our Commander-in-Chief (aka “The Drone Warrior”). A policy of remote killing of high value targets practiced under Bush was expanded into the main effort to wage war. As quickly as politics allowed, Obama lead us out of Iraq and is attempting still to extract us from Afghanistan. And to be fair, he had little to do with getting us in these wars. But he asked for the job, so should be accountable for how he closes out these conflicts. Our military has always made & officers a high value target & employed snipers to destroy leadership. It has proven it’s worth on countless battlefields.
But this is a different kind of battle. On a true battlefield, the opposing army would be destroyed or forced to surrender. If they retreat, they would be pursued and destroyed. War is usually waged where you win, die, or surrender. You fight the other guy until he is no longer a threat to you. This new war, without a battlefield, killing a leader just creates a vacancy.
“The shooting of individual hogs also thwarts large-scale trapping efforts by agencies because increased disturbance makes it nearly impossible to catch the whole group.”
One change in this war on terror is ISIL becoming a regional power. Unlike most terror organizations the US has faced, here we have actual armies and battle fields. This is the type of fight our military is designed to engage. But only if allowed to use tactics proven to be effective. Air attacks are the per-cursor to land war. It means “boots on the ground” If the desire is to “win” this or any war, the enemy must be killed or captured. Our air war can destroy any hard targets and many or most vehicle assets, but still leaves survivors to continue the fight. It also may “train” smarter, more capable leaders.
Our Commander-in-Chief outlined his strategy to “degrade and ultimately destroy” the terrorist group known as ISIS. What can be said about this “strategy”? Does it not simply describe any battle or war? You attack and degrade the enemy (funny way to describe bombing, blowing up people and weapons…must be lawyer-speak where unpleasant words are never spoken. War is a conflict or military operation..) What is not said is how long will we be degrading the enemy? Part of his strategy includes other nations providing the “boots on the ground”. And to give credit, he & his advisors recognize it will take an army to kill or capture the ISIS terrorists. But how well grounded in reality is this plan? The Middle East is full of factions that hate each other. Our VP proposed a three state solution just for Iraq. Iran & Iraq fought a very bloody war in the 90’s. Syria is fighting a civil war and the US has sided against their government which Russia is supporting. Turkey when faced with invasion let a town face ISIL alone because it was a Kurdish settlement. Who are the allies Obama thinks will contain ISIS after we preform our “strategic strikes”? The saying, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a fallacy in this situation. Our best hope is for them to hate each other more than they do us…. And they are to be the “trap” and contain ISIS…
Another funny thing, both Democrats and Republicans are calling for this war. They differ only is how to wage the war.
“Bruce Braley, the Democratic Senate candidate in Iowa. He picked up a Republican-held House seat largely on the strength of his opposition to the war in Iraq. He backed cutting off funding for military operations and spoke out against the surge.
When his opponent warned at a 2006 debate of chaos if the U.S. cut and ran, Braley responded: “Chaos already is ensuing in Iraq.”
Just last August, Braley demanded Obama get congressional authorization before taking any military action in Syria.
Now Braley is running against military veteran Joni Ernst in one of the most contested Senate races in the country.
“ISIS is a threat that must be stopped,” Braley said during a debate Sunday. “Anytime American citizens are attacked by a terrorist group, they need to be brought to justice or to the grave.””
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/2014-elections-senate-democrats-iraq-syria-111445.html#ixzz3HARHfpuO
When has ISIS attacked America? They did behead a journalist. He went to Syria, in a war zone. Journalists are killed frequently when they elect to go to dangerous places to report. There cannot and should not be an expectation of safety for anyone who deliberately puts themselves in harms way. So why is everyone banging the war drum? Whatever happened to “Code Pink” and their anti-war protesters? If Bush & his wars were wrong, why is this a war we should fight?
ISIS has declared America their enemy and announced their intent to attack us. Hasn’t Iran done that multiple times? And a few others? One line of reasoning makes sense of the call to arms. When the boy sticks his finger in the small hole in the dike, plugging the small leak. It’s much easier to fix/contain than allowing the hole to grow, where a hand or a bulldozer cannot stop the flood. ISIS could sweep across Iraq if not stopped. They would have greater resources, namely huge quantities of oil to sell & trade. Could they then take Jordan, Syria, or Iran? It’s all possible. Looking at a map, it’s hard to explain how Germany conquered so many countries. Ditto for Japan. But all this really points to is the need for all Middle East countries that feel threatened to act. Obama took us out of Iraq. They were happy to see us, the invader leave. Syria is not a friend. Jordan & Israel are but I don’t hear them mentioned in these calls to war.
What shouts to me is first, we have no goal in this war. “Err, stop the bad guys from killing?” Which bad guy’s and in what countries? There are a lot of borders in that region. Reality is our “strategy is to start bombing them and hope we slow them down enough to buy some time and make a plan. Plan “A” to get other countries to handle the ground war. Plan “B” might be get past mid-terms and then commit US troops. (No doubt, it will be the Republicans fault by then)
As it stands today, ISIL is smuggling millions of dollars worth of oil across several borders every day. How likely is it that they cannot and will not export fighters? Couple that with the thousands of illegal immigrants seemingly crossing our southern border at will and the reality is our defense is an assumption that the enemy is too dumb or lazy to hit back. They clearly have the ability and funding. I think our air attacks will give them more incentive to target the US . (not that I doubt they will or would not seek to attack us, just we were a lower priority) I would suggest we pray, but our government seems opposed to that as well….
And let me give the final word to one of our Allies…
On Thursday, the Syrian National Coalition, which is recognized by the United States as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people, told Foreign Policy that the plan “just doesn’t make sense strategically.
“The only way to defeat ISIS is to defeat ISIS. You cannot be reactive and wait for them to besiege liberated towns and villages,” said Oubai Shahbandar, a senior advisor to the group.
Black Flag®
commonman55
d13thecolonel
gman
Just A Citizen
Life of Illusion
Jon Smith
USWeapon
Stand Up For America 
Obama couldn’t figure out how to hunt a pig in a 10 x 10 pen, much less deal with these idiots called ISIS or whatever. My suggestion, leave the Middle East alone.
News this morning they were saying Republicans have been wrong, now have it right on Obama. They ( the Repug’s) were saying he was trying to be a dictator, now he’s simply not managing crisis like ISIS, Ebola, etc… I think it’s a false narrative because he’s both. On immigration he’s shown himself to be a dictator, ignoring to enforce the law. On other issues, all too often he talks but does not act, letting events fester.
Middle East, I’m OK with ignoring. I could be persuaded to exterminate ISIS. But only if done right. The Dem’s & Repug’s both want to wage this war. What is their stated goal?
Eliminate this threat to America? OK, then any plan that does not eliminate ISIS is written to fail. How did the Nam war start? Kinda small but then grew each year? Isn’t this how to start a never ending war? And are you sure Obama hasn’t got that figured out?
Let em’ fight it out. we do not need them.
That would work for me. My issue is since we are waging a war, I see our tactics doomed to fail and great another Vietnam style war.
….probably worse. Vietnam was against a country. This war is against a global religion.
And here we agree. How many Muslims will see us bombing their fellow Muslims who did not attack the US and decide it is a wrong that must be righted or avenged? Call them “lone wolves”. Their fellow Muslims often consider them martyrs.
OK….let me see if I have this straight…….was watching a news report about the volcano in Hawaii…..and there are several homeowners that are upset with the government of the US and Hawaii about not doing anything about how the lava flows from an active volcano. So, the people are pissed because they were STUPID enough to build a home at the base of an active volcano. If you build on a beach, EXPECT hurricanes…..if you buy lots in the hills of Los Angeles where wild animals roam, EXPECT pets to be attacked and eaten…..if you build bike trails and running trails in wilderness areas, EXPECT to be accosted by wild animals. If you swim in the ocean, EXPECT to be bitten by sharks…..if you live in the plains states, EXPECT tornadoes……
Why is everybody pissed off when these things happen?
They should have pulled a Utah Solution.
Just pass a law prohibiting the volcano from destroying any private property. Problem solved.
Of course…what was I thinking
Excellent point. Here in NJ we have areas that routinely flood. Back in the 50’s people built houses on this land. the houses have been destroyed time and time again and flood insurance keeps rebuilding them. I guess if we truly were talking about 100 year floods instead of five year floods it would be ok but the current policy is nuts. Buy them out with the insurance payment and treat the land as a flood plain. Never gonna happen though.
There is a town in PA called Centralia that has the misfortune to have been located on top of a huge anthracite vein.. Fifty years ago, it caught fire and has been burning since. They tried every trick in the book to put it out with no success. Finally, the state just decided to buy them all out and plow the place under. Still a few hold-outs but 98 percent of what had been a pretty little town when I was a kid is gone.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2196
If they had not built that dam called I80 through the Great Swamp, Wayne, NJ would not flood every year. Where are the environmentalist when you need them?
” On a true battlefield, the opposing army would be destroyed or forced to surrender. If they retreat, they would be pursued and destroyed. War is usually waged where you win, die, or surrender. You fight the other guy until he is no longer a threat to you. This new war, without a battlefield, killing a leader just creates a vacancy.”
That’s the problem. You and most others have utterly no concept about war.
Sherman went to Germany and observed the Franco-Prussian war. He quipped to Bismark that the German troops were beyond magnificent, the best in the world, but he said to Bismark about his strategy “…you do not destroy the enemy. You must chase him through the field to his house, burn down his house and his crops and his cities or victory will escape”.
Bismark saw Sherman and Americans as crude, unintelligent barbarians.
But with the barbaric Americans global hegemony, Total War is now the norm.
You make war into a feud; into a blood bath with a belief that the only outcome is destruction of the opposition or your own, leaving utter destruction of civilization in your wake.
This “total war” nonsense is the very reason why modern wars cannot seem to end.
You cannot destroy terrorists by killing them. The very act of doing so breeds more – like cutting the Hydra’s head begets two more heads.
Terrorists exist because all other means of resistance has been diminished.
It is the weapon of last resort.
As the French leader dialogued to the Algerian terrorist leader during an attempt at peace talks:
“Why do you put bombs in baby carriages?”
“We will stop using baby carriages as soon as you send us your fighter bombers”
With the gross misunderstanding of what leads to terrorism and an ideology of Total War, the brew is a devastating poison to America and a potent source of energy for America’s foes
Sounds good on paper. Not trying to pick a fight, but I’d really like to know…since now it’s not so out of the question..what are you going to do when your wife’s head comes up missing? Who are you going to blame? The USA or the terrorist? And what would you do? Walk away, or grab a 30-06? I really want to know.
Anita,
You do not understand.
If by the overt action of your own government costs you your loved one, do you continue to support the very action that precipitated the consequence?
What do YOU think will be the consequence of continuing the very action that is the root of what you just suffered?
Do you believe that continuing or expanding the slaughter of others will now solve the problem?
I’m the one asking the questions.
Who are you going to blame?
What are you going to do?
Anita, There are some things missing in Flaggy’s claim that the terrorist issue is the fault of the US government (leaving out the CT stuff). It fails to acknowledge Muslim terror attacks in Russia, China, Spain, UK, France, numerous countries in Africa, numerous countries in the Middle East, etc. No, Islamic terrorism is not what he is claiming, not even close 🙂
Even the terrorist’s blame their religion for their actions. Interesting how their own claims can become twisted to lay blame on the feet of another.
But then, I like the CT stuff that blames terrorism on govt’s who want to take Rights from their citizens so they fund and plan these attacks so the people will give up their Rights because they think they will be safer. 😉
Wrong again, Gman.
You fail to acknowledge the imperialism that created these terrorists.
Russia – especially the Soviets – operated brutally upon their Muslim population, especially in Chechnya.
France pillaged, raped and murdered its way through Algeria and Morocco, breeding its terrorists.
…and so on.
All the cases of terrorism arose from the same primary source – a foreign power utilizing brutal violence on the indigenous peoples
Terrorism does not rise out of nowhere and without a root cause.
I see, so we blew up which Muslim country …..that spawned Al Qeida? (I know, Al Qeida is a CIA funded group used to take the Rights of the people). But for the sake of this discussion, what exactly did we do to spawn terrorism against the US?
First, the “we” thing again – who is this “we”? It’s not me and its not you.
Your GOVERNMENT absolutely involved itself in all sorts of Muslim dominated nations, and absolutely created, by design, its own enemy.
Are you so oblivious to the actions of your government over the last 125 years??????
Do you need a history lesson AGAIN?
How many posts have I made about this that you, now, seem so ignorant about?
“France pillaged, raped and murdered its way through Algeria and Morocco, breeding its terrorists.…and so on.”
Yep. But who started it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
Oh bullshit.
You believe that France’s imperialism of the early 1800’s was caused by some group 500 years earlier? You are utterly insane.
Your question displays a serious misunderstanding.
Your mindset is so twisted that you cannot see who is to blame.
If you set your neighbor’s house on fire and kill his children, and he takes revenge on you by killing your husband, you would you blame? In your mindset, you would absolve yourself of burning the man’s house down, and blame him for your anguish.
In your mindset, you feel justified to going back and killing the rest of the man’s entire next of kin, right?
*who would you blame?*
You’re pulling a Mathius on me and making a different scenario up to justify your claims. I think I have you pegged. If it happened to you, you would blame the terrorist, not the USA. The USA did not chop your wife’s head, the terrorist did…no matter the reason. Not sure how you’d handle it, but I’d grab the rifle if it was me.
No, I am attempting to engage your brain.
IT ISN’T A DIFFERENT SCENARIO
It is your willful ignorance that is the issue.
You believe that a response upon you comes out of nowhere.
You believe that there is no reason.
You ignore the root cause
You are seriously myopic and as such, you are the cause of your own demise.
You burned down your neigbhor’s house and killed his children.
He revenged upon you and killed your husband.
You blame him for your husband’s demise.
There are two, and only two resolutions to this.
You must utterly wipe out everyone in his family – commit wholesale and complete genocide, leaving not even one person alive. Be prepared, though, that his response will be equally as devastating on you and your family – you will suffer the deaths of your own children and grand children and great grand children – YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY will be at risk of his genocide of you. The bodies will pile up all around you and your tears will make a river. This is your plan
or
Understand that you created the issue, and seek reconciliation. You stop killing his children and he will stop killing yours because to not do this results in option one.
Hang on BF. You are mixing govt and individuals. First of all, you are all about individual action, not collective. The guy just chopped your wife’s head. For no reason that she personally caused. Totally random. He has a chip on his shoulder from other ‘collective’ (weather religion or govt) history. She is an individual and he is an individual. They meet by chance at this one moment in time. He is responsible for his action. You, if anyone should understand that.
“Hang on BF. You are mixing govt and individuals.”
There is no mix up. The principle is unchanged.
If you attack a nation and kill its people, the consequence of revenge is the same as if you burned down your neighbor.
You ARE NOT ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT AN INSANE MAN, like the guy in Canada, who got on a bus and beheaded a passenger
YOU ENTERED THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT A STATE OF WAR BETWEEN NATIONS and NON-STATE ACTORS.
um, the conversation started that way.
” On a true battlefield, the opposing army would be destroyed or forced to surrender. If they retreat, they would be pursued and destroyed. War is usually waged where you win, die, or surrender. You fight the other guy until he is no longer a threat to you. This new war, without a battlefield, killing a leader just creates a vacancy.”
This new war, without a battlefield…..that’s like the guy in Canada. Working in the name of Allah. Somewhere along the line these two problems got mixed up…Countries (war) and terrorists (plain evil). Both are going on right now. I have to take my loss and go in a country war..guess that would make me a zombie because I’m dead…but if a guy sneaks up on me with an axe, in the name of Allah, I’m going to kill him. We..you too…are at war with him…because he declared war on you..an infidel. You may as well just call him and invite him over to kill you.
“um, the conversation started that way.”
Um, exactly. WAR, not about insane men beheading someone on a bus.
And, yes, like the guy in Canada.
DO YOU BELIEVE HIS EXTREMISM WAS A MATTER OF INSANITY
or
DUE TO THE FACT CANADA IS ENGAGED IN BOMBING PEOPLE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?
You are utterly strange.
You believe that a country bombing and killing women and children is “ok”, and the response of these people who do not have fighter bombers which to bomb YOU back and have to use baby carriages instead are “evil”.
Your understanding of what constitutes evil is irrational and bizarre
You’re starting with Canada. Start with the guy. He wants infidels dead. Canada is in his country to get him dead…before he gets anyone else..anywhere. You’re excusing his actions by claiming him insane. He may be insane, he’s doing it in the name of Allah, with the blessing of his leaders. His leaders have disrupted countries.. That’s where I’m saying the two concepts got mixed up. ISIS, Al Queda, all of them, have invaded governments of countries…now we have country v country…over some terrorists…which at the very root..is an individual action…him v infidel…like the guy in Canada. I cant explain it any better, I’m getting frustrated…but I’m going to kill the guy who comes after me in the name of Allah.
“You’re starting with Canada. Start with the guy.”
Foolishness!
What came first?
Canada bombing and invading other countries
or
Him attacking soldiers???
You are ass-backwards in your understanding – arguing the consequences is the cause.
Get this through your head;
None of these Non-State actors existed before the US created them
You are so utterly muddled up in your cause/consequence.
Anita,
Look, everyone acts for a reason.
There is a reason a man does such a thing.
The reason maybe he is insane.
The reason maybe he is a criminal.
The reason maybe he is out for revenge.
But there is always a reason.
If you want to solve a reoccurring problem, you have to seek the reason why these men do what they do, otherwise, all you do make the problem worse.
None of these Non-State actors existed before the US created them!
Yes, long before one bomb ever dropped on any Muslim. This current group and those that follow and act based on Islam are mentally ill, or, Islam is far from a peaceful religion and the whole lot of them are mentally ill. Regardless, ISIS, Boko Harem and other Muslim radicals are barbarians who rape little girls and lop heads off of those who don’t agree with their religious ideology. I call this insane. Noone from ISIS has said anything that would support your claim Flag, they have only said they want a Islamic State (which exists in many Middle eastern countries, just not to their liking.
Gman,
Yes, long before one bomb ever dropped on any Muslim.
Bullshit. You do not know the history of the region.
Go back and read the neo-colonialism since 1914.
“ISIS, Boko Harem and other Muslim radicals are barbarians who rape little girls and lop heads off of those who don’t agree with their religious ideology.”
It is insane.
But the cause of the rise of this is rooted in the actions of US and European powers
As I have often repeated, by the Eisenhower doctrine of “You are either with us or you are against us” destroys the otherwise neutral and benign self-determination of the people of any Nation. See Iran as an example.
This doctrine manifests extremists by installing pliant dictators who cater to the whims of the US and its allies.
To maintain the dictatorships, all opposition to the dictator – including moderates – are destroyed.
The only remaining resistance is of those whose extremist views are immune to the violence; only the most extreme ideologues resist even under the threat of torture and death (moderates, by being moderate, retreat) – indeed, it is this violence of the dictator that gives credibly to the extremists as the extremists are the only ones left resisting the dictator.
Like most people, your lack of knowledge of history and social political power and its creations undermine your understanding of the issues.
Regardless of the cause of the actions, lopping off heads and raping little girls is wrong. To them, all who do not want to follow their ideals are infidels, you, me and all the rest of us included. If they just want revenge they would target ME, not someone who had nothing to do with the military actions of our nation on an Islamic nation. They can not determine WHO is “for” or “against” their nations actions. To them, your not of their religion, off with your damn head. Then stick it on a post for all to see!
Gman,
Again, you are ignorant of the root cause.
They revenge against the entity that gave rise to the extremists in the first place
The people of Iran did not vote in the Shah and overthrow their president. The people of Iran did not train the SAVAK who murdered and tortured tens of thousands of Iranians.
Who is funding the arms that kills tens of thousands of Palestinian women and children?
Whose firepower overthrew Libya?
Who is arming Syrian rebels?
Who maintained the brutal dictatorships that are the norm of the region?
Just because YOU ARE WILLFULLY BLIND does not mean the victims are blind
They see quite clearly what you refuse to see.
I would say…
Who used a knife to cut off a head? A person. That person is responsible for his action.
…but you won’t let me go there.
Of course you can go there but not in the context of the State vs Non-State actors
He was insane, pure and simple.
You dealing an insane person works with a different principle. They are insane. They are not in command of their actions. They act without reason.
You want to use this circumstance to justify State action upon another nation of people and to justify the evil upon these people – you want to the victim of your government’s action.
*you want to blame the victim of your State’s action*
One more try.
I would buy your argument if it was one of those scary clowns beheading people. That guy is working on his own. He is insane. These terrorists are looking to killing infidels. They originated as state funded….that’s where it got all mixed up….they morphed into lone wolves with a common cause. So it is State vs Non State now. In the end it all ends up individual.
Anita
“These terrorists are looking to killing infidels.”
Why are they doing this, do you imagine?
Do you think ISIS exited before the US invasion of Iraq? Nope.
Did they exist before the US toppled Libya? Nope.
Did they exist before the US tried to topple Syria? Nope.
Do you imagine that – just maybe – those US actions created them?
Flagster,
“You and most others have utterly no concept about war.”
I never served in the military. I claim no expertise. I just offer my opinion, which differs from yours. I have reasons which lead me to think you are wrong, even though I respect your opinion. (Great quot by the way, you know your history!)
“you do not destroy the enemy. You must chase him through the field to his house, burn down his house and his crops and his cities or victory will escape”.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/30/sources-former-guantanamo-detainees-suspected-joining-isis-other-groups-in/
Most of our wars involved governments proclaiming other governments to be evil, the enemy that had to be destroyed. When those wars end, the common troops were and could be released. Their ability to wage war was also removed and usually they were occupied until a period of peace had passed. ISIS is made up of Islamic’s who have declared their intent to impose their interpretation of Islam on the world. They started with:
Syria, then Iraq. They have threatened Turkey. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel, Egypt and a few other nations think they are a threat that has to be dealt with. We were not bombing them when the invaded Iraq. Syria was, but they are fighting a civil war.
They Have stated their intent and demonstrated by heinous acts that they will enforce their agenda on all who do not agree with their religious beliefs. I do not believe they are a “threat” to the USA at this time. Saying we are going to war because of this is ridiculous. But, they are a threat to several of the neighboring countries.
My point still remains, the way we are waging this war is certain to fail. ISIS will not be destroyed. It will become a decades long war where we create new “freedom fighters” every time we blow up a bad guy. Kinda like the Hydra meme Marvel is using with Captain America, “cut off one head, two more grow back”.
“Most of our wars involved governments proclaiming other governments to be evil, the enemy that had to be destroyed. When those wars end, the common troops were and could be released. Their ability to wage war was also removed and usually they were occupied until a period of peace had passed.”
What war are you talking about?
After WW2 ended, the Allies interned millions of German troops, of which over over a million died in captivity
“U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower intentionally caused the deaths by starvation or exposure of around a million German prisoners of war held in Western internment camps briefly after the Second World War. … that hundreds of thousands of German prisoners that had fled the Eastern front were designated as “Disarmed Enemy Forces” in order to avoid recognition under the third Geneva Convention, for the purpose of carrying out their deaths through disease or slow starvation. …. documents in the U.S. National Archives and interviews with people who stated they witnessed the events….there was a “method of genocide” in the banning of Red Cross inspectors, the returning of food aid, the policy regarding shelter building, and soldier ration policy.”
You further ignore suffering and deprivation upon the occupied people – all under the guise of mass punishment.
You further ignore the devastation upon the whole of society that the Total War created – its further outcome was the creation of the most dire circumstance in the history of mankind – Nuclear War – a direct consequence of Total War Doctrine where the destruction of masses of people in cities was cited as a normal action.
Again, you suffer a massive lack of historical reference.
Who or what is ISIS is irrelevant.
They did not exist before the US invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.
“My point still remains, the way we are waging this war is certain to fail.”
Absolutely. Continuing to exercise actions which created the issue cannot solve the issue.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/10/29/one-twins-rescue-hug-saves-the-life-of-her-sister/
PS: The French invasion of Algeria was to collect a debt payment.
And in your twisted Islamphobic mind, it was due to something 1,000 years before.
http://www.glennbeck.com/dreamers/
New discoveries and theories on Autism.
Essom………….if your still checking in, pass this along to your kin.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/30/health/autism-genes-studies/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Boy, here is one you have to worry about.
I have long thought that a good 30% of my classmates in grammar school of the ’50’s exhibited traits (some to this day) that verge on the Autism spectrum. This knowledge, done through gene testing while the baby is in the womb could easily lead to even more abortions.
I have heard of estimates as high as 90% on abortions for Down’s syndrome which means, in a few years, there will be very few of these babies born. The case VH highlighted last week where the medical profession was “certain” that the baby had no brain or upper spine is another example of the pressure placed on prospective parents to abort these “defects”.
I am fairly sure we do not understand Autism very well. More and more kids are diagnosed every year but it is for milder and milder forms. The cynic in me sees a play for more money by the educational industrial complex. I leave you with the fact that one of my grammar school friends, the one I would put money on as being afflicted with some form of autism turned out to be the most successful from the Incarnation class of 1960. No college, sold the business and retired to Hilton Head at age 50.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/10/when_egypt_has_more_guts_than_america.html
Senior Defense and intelligence officials say the vast majority of detainees released from Guantanamo don’t return to the fight — and of those who do, relatively few have made it to Syria.
Of the 620 detainees released from Guantanamo Bay, 180 have returned or are suspected to have returned to the battlefield.
Of those 180, sources say 20 to 30 have either joined ISIS or other militants groups in Syria, or are participating with these groups from outside countries. Officials say most of those 20 to 30 are operating inside Syria.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/10/2030_former_gitmo_detainees_fighting_for_isis_other_islamist_groups_in_syria.html#ixzz3HeEXHYPs
Which begs the question: How do they know?
Which begs: If they know where these folks went, why don’t they know where the other bad guys are? Or do they?
A case for massive reductions in military spending.
I found one flawed conclusion, however. The comparison of past to present spending/GDP. He claims that GDP has increased x% and therefor the military budget would naturally increase buying power to the same extent. Problem is that inflation is a large part of the GDP increase. So you have to adjust the GDP for inflation not just the spending dollars.
And then of course there is the difference in hardware costs in 1939 (single engine fixed wing aircraft and light armor tanks) vs Today (Stealth fighters/bombers, heavy armor, computer system and Satellite tech, etc.).
Shows you that sometimes even the “Libertarian” thinkers commit the same errors they accuse others of making. But otherwise he makes a good argument that reductions do not necessarily equate to loss of defense capability. It all depends on how we spend our money.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bandow/hawks-demand-more-militar_b_6067600.html
Flagster, I’m no more ignorant of the root cause of anything as you are no more an expert on the subject. History has an immense amount of versions, basically, unless you and I lived it, our versions are likely to be different.. However, your self proclaimed absolutism is no less full of shit as Barack Obama. Your claim to know all and everything is BULLSHIT! You are no less insane than those you claim to be the victims. The Radicals Islamist’s want to live in the stone age and the world isn’t cooperating. Guess what? Tough shit! Live as you choose and leave others alone and you will not be bothered. The proof lives among us, everyday. Maybe you should read less and look outside your books. Book smart is great, doesn’t mean you have one lick of common sense.
More bullshit.
You wish to ignore the root causes of your strife.
You pretend they are different then you in fundamental ways. They are not.
They want, as you do, to live their lives in peace.
Your government attacks them.
They attack you.
You believe they are insane to do so.
You are blind and ignorant.
No, you are ignorant to the fact I have NO strife with them at all. I don’t care how they live. I don’t even like the government I live under anymore that you, but you always ignore that FACT! They have not attacked me, because I’m still typing on this silly keyboard and they are not dead.
You are full of SHIT.
Gman,
Whether you do or do not, your government does have strife with them.
Whether you care or not, as you see them as “Muslims”, they see you as “American”.
They are not attacking you either, yet, you rage against them.
Thus, they rage against you as an American.
You are full of ignorance.
Flag, your biggest problem is you have zero memory. Or, you simply choose to put all people into the same pile and pretend they all think the same. This makes you a FOOL! Let me explain: 1. I do not rage against Muslim’s, I have no use for the radical elements who have perverted the religion. 2. I have been quite openly and clearly against US actions in Libya, Syria and currently in Iraq. What happens over there is non of our business and we should have never invaded Iraq to begin with. 3. You claim that the radicals are there because of the US actions, yet I have shown that to be false, you ignore it. They are and have clearly stated it’s about their religious views (ISIS). They are not killing Americans and displaying their heads on posts in Iraq, they are killing Iraqi’s. Apparently, you are blind to this. 4. They’re root cause, based on your OPINION is it’s about US actions. SO WHAT? Knowing this changes nothing. My Opinion is that it’s about their religion. SO WHAT? Knowing this changes nothing. Your psycho babble is boorish and rooted in the absurd. But, So What? I still love ya Man 😀
Gman,
Nonsense.
You post your aghast at the extermists, and then when called on it, you perjure yourself and claim you aren’t.
It is not a matter of “memory”, it is a matter that you are schizophrenic.
“You claim that the radicals are there because of the US actions, yet I have shown that to be false”
You have NOT shown it to be false! You not pretend your lies somehow make your position a truth.
You are historically ignorant and you try to ply that ignorance to be something brilliant.
Nope. To this point I agree with GMan..but now…
Do you think ISIS exited before the US invasion of Iraq? No. But ISIS is Muslim and Muslims want to kill infidels.
Did they exist before the US toppled Libya? Isis, no. Muslims, yes.
Did they exist before the US tried to topple Syria? Isis, no. Muslims, yes.
Do you imagine that – just maybe – those US actions created them? NOPE. The fact that they want infidels dead has nothing to do with the USA. It is individual. It is them vs me.
Nope. To this point I agree with GMan..but now…
Do you think ISIS exited before the US invasion of Iraq? No.”But ISIS is Muslim and Muslims want to kill infidels.”
Why?
“NOPE”
And that is why you will cry a river of tears.
You do not see your government actions upon these people as the cause of these peoples violent argument against you, as an American.
They would still want me dead if I was an infidel Norwegian. It doesn’t have to do with the USA. It has to do with Muslim terrorists and infidels.
That’s why we’re not at war with Afghanistan or Iraq, or Syria where ISIS is now..we’re at war with terrorists. I’m glad the USA has my back. I’m glad Canada has my back. I’m glad most sane countries have my back. And here we are right back where it gets mixed up.
America is at war with Afghanistan. Where have you been for the last 10 years, in a cave?
America is at war with Iraq. Where have you been for the last 10 years, in a cave?
America is in a proxy war in Syria. Where have you been for the last 2 years, in a cave?
There is not enough people on earth to protect you, as long as your government continues its foreign policies.
They would still want me dead if I was an infidel Norwegian. It doesn’t have to do with the USA. It has to do with Muslim terrorists and infidels.
Nonsense. No one is attacking Norwegians.
It does have to do with the USA.
Because of your ignorance, you cannot attribute the cause of your own demise.
Nonsense, they are currently attacking Iraqi’s not Americans. Your ignorance will be your demise because your arrogance will lead you down that path 🙂
Gman
*blink*
So the thousands of US deaths in Iraq means they are not attacking the US.
“Currently” the US is cowering in bases a few hundred miles away.
Don’t worry, they are coming.
The discussion is about CURRENT events and issues. ISIS hasn’t killed a hundred Americans, much less a thousand. The US isn’t likely to be cowering anywhere because of this group of nobodies. ISIS is no danger to the US (parroting you now).
“Don’t worry, they are coming.” Really? REALLY? Your telling Anita they are no threat and now you post this bullshit comment. Maybe you should figure out what part of reality your on and stick with it, because your fucking clueless now!
Gman,
That’s yours and Anita’s problem.
You blind yourself to the root cause with disclaims “well, that is in the past” – merely an excuse to “forgive” your government’s own actions and permit them to be repeated
IT IS A CURRENT ISSUE.
Without a clue to why, you are fumbling around in nonsense.
No, they are coming to the US forces in Iraq.
I laugh at the common American people. In the face of a real threat, like the USSR, no one mumbled and cried in fear on a daily basis.
But a ragtag force without a navy, airforce or any means of reaching the US with any real threat, you guys post and post, and whimper and hide, and threaten and bomb as if they were a greater threat then the USSR.
Americans are so stupid.
Yep, All about the US! What utter bullshit: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/11/01/isis-militants-line-up-kill-50-tribesmen-and-women-in-iraq-town/
Gman,
Yeah, bullshit
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/21/turning_a_wedding_into_a_funeral
It gets to a never ending chicken and egg argument. Syria has been fighting a civil war for years now. The US had zero involvement for most of the war other than spouting rhetoric. Now we are actively bombing one combatant, that aids the established government while we express a desire to support a different rebel faction.
We did not start this or any of the Arab Spring revolutions. But we are a participant in several. Regan gave aid & arms to freedom fighters in Afghanistan to fight the Russian invasion. Those rebels later became hostile to the US. Some of them migrated to other battlefields, usually fighting against our interests. Bill Clinton intervened. It created enemies. Bush 1 & 2 intervened and created enemies. We can look back on all of these and countless other examples. In the end there is no clear proof or answer, did we do more harm than good? If we had not kicked Saddam out of Kuwait, would there be no ISIS or peace in the Middle East?
Don’t know if you remember a few years back when I wrote a guest article that centered around the Cold War and how it was used to promote fear that led to the buildup of both countries militaries. It was not long after the end of the Cold War that those evil Terrorists took the stage as the leading fear propaganda tool for governments to continue to keep the masses in fear. In Governments eyes, they need to be needed for protection or they would likely be tossed off as useless, which they are for the most part.
History, has always been used as a weapon and much as a learning tool. With so many versions of history, it’s hard to really know what to believe anymore. But, when history is “invented” to stir up fear (see Global Warming) it’s easy to understand how blame can easily be laid at the feet of US military actions becoming the precursor to modern Islamic radicals. ISIS, the current target of the discussion, may certainly be a result of US action’s, but not from the idiotic military attacks. More of another government invented boogieman to pad the pockets of those running the military industrial complex and keep the people in fear, which has been waning due to the lack of government sponsored terror attacks. The Boston Bombing failed to achieve the “fear” goals, but did wake people up to the “police state” that the US is becoming.
ISIS gives many governments the fuel to continue to rule over it’s people and continue to strip the people of their Rights. You can bet your ass that this site is being monitored by the government, as well as our cell phones, emails and personal computers. This, I have no doubt about. The people are silent on this intrusion upon their Right to privacy because they falsely believe they “need” the government to protect them.
Anarchist’s use the same game plan as the Leftist’s, the Statist’s, and Governments use to push their agenda. Exaggeration of the “problem”, making up false claims and using false and misleading statistics to support it and finger pointing/name calling. My views have been given the “just like everyone else” mantra, but I can prove that to be a total lie (another tactic of those mentioned above). I have stated numerous times that I have no issues with Muslim’s, that I do not fear the radical’s and our government is totally corrupt beyond repair, making voting useless. I use “our government” to speak of the Feds, as we are from different States. Many of our State government’s aren’t much better than the Feds. Local problems can be dealt with easier.
Anita has a point, how does one recognize a radical hellbent on his insane actions? Are all the Islamic radical’s mentally ill?
gman
I disagree with the premise that this is all done “deliberately” just to deed the military industrial complex. At the same time the MIC does have its lobbyists, just like any other industry.
What is more accurate is that the US is constantly trying to herd the cats in a particular direction by a variety of means. The cats don’t cooperate all the time and we get constant disappointment and “unintended consequences”.
The terrorist actions against the USA are rooted in our recognition and support of Israel. NOT our rape, pillaging, plundering or murdering of “millions” of Muslims. So our great sin in the middle east was to recognize Israel. Despite our efforts to help negotiate a settlement to that conflict, this single sin is deserving of violence against us in the minds of some.
Oh, and there is that little thing about the Wahhabi’s disgust with Western Culture and their desire to restore a “conservative” Caliphate. Which of course also requires violence against the USA because we simply recognize the various Governments in power. Those that are not Muslim enough for the fundamentalists.
I have long felt we need to just leave the region to its own devices. The questions then become:
Will the fundamentalists/radicals/jihadists die of natural causes or will they continue to try and spread their ideology outside the Middle East? If not how do we stop their spread of violence and intolerance.
What will happen when the USA creates a huge vacuum in the region? Which begs, how do we mitigate or reduce the adverse consequences of pulling out all together?
What will be the blow back in the rest of the world when the USA is seen as no longer supporting Freedom movements in the world? Who fills that vacuum?? How do we mitigate those affects??
I’m closer to G! on this. Whatever their reasons, “military industrial complex” welfare or other, both the Dim’s & Repug’s are for this war. At the very least it provides them both wit something they need, an issue to scare/control voters with…
As for the Wahhabi’s, I think they are solely interested in keeping their power. They are sitting on a powder keg of a culture they need to stay out in front of but still live their decadent lifestyles. When cousins become radical there, they are exported to be someone else’s problem like the 9/11 attackers.
As for the US vacuum, as long as oil has the value it does, they remain a world economic power. China, India & France will buy all they will sell.
“he terrorist actions against the USA are rooted in our recognition and support of Israel. NOT our rape, pillaging, plundering or murdering of “millions” of Muslims. So our great sin in the middle east was to recognize Israel. Despite our efforts to help negotiate a settlement to that conflict, this single sin is deserving of violence against us in the minds of some.”
What efforts? Oh, you mean funding the Israeli military complex by billions of dollars a year?
And then you are aghast at others who see the US as duplicitous – mouth moving telling lies, while the actions tell the truth.
In the first Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait. Saddam was being bankrupted by Kuwait manipulating the oil prices. They were in debt due to loans needed for their war with Iran. (This had little to do with the USA) I don’t excuse our interventions, but think Flag tends to discount the other players in these games…..
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/16/how-iran-could-become-our-shadow-enemy-in-the-syria-isis-war.html
LOI,
Do not use your small mind to pretend you know mine.
“but think Flag tends to discount the other players in these games…”
Of course I do not discount other players.
What I do is focus on the global hegemonic player.
Even Putin, in his latest public speech, confirms my approach.
“But the United States, having declared itself the winner of the Cold War, saw no need for this. Instead of establishing a new balance of power, essential for maintaining order and stability, they took steps that threw the system into sharp and deep imbalance.
The Cold War ended, but it did not end with the signing of a peace treaty with clear and transparent agreements on respecting existing rules or creating new rules and standards. This created the impression that the so-called ‘victors’ in the Cold War had decided to pressure events and reshape the world to suit their own needs and interests. If the existing system of international relations, international law and the checks and balances in place got in the way of these aims, this system was declared worthless, outdated and in need of immediate demolition.
Pardon the analogy, but this is the way nouveaux riches behave when they suddenly end up with a great fortune, in this case, in the shape of world leadership and domination. Instead of managing their wealth wisely, for their own benefit too of course, I think they have committed many follies.”
So why do you believe PUTIN of all people yet do not trust what other leaders or historians have to say.
Looks to me like a bad case of confirmation bias.
JAC
“Believe Putin”
Ah, because he speaks the truth about the situation.
So you don’t think the US won the Cold war? Gee, he does.
So you don’t think the US worked to impose a “new world order”?, Gee he does.
You are one strange man. You fall for your own ad homenien fallacies “because Putin says the Earth orbits the Sun, he is wrong, therefore the Sun orbits the Earth”
Sorry it has taken a while to respond. Youth hunt & had the boys in the woods. We saw a lot, but no good shots and home tired & empty handed. Back at it today.
Do not use your small mind to pretend you know mine. (petty insult)
“but think Flag tends to discount the other players in these games…”( and why do I think that? Ask yourself!)
Of course I do not discount other players. ( the answer is you only seem to bash and blame the US. I don’t excuse our actions and try to see the good & bad we have done meddling in world events. You only seem to post why it’s all our fault.)
LOI
“We did not start this or any of the Arab Spring revolution”
I cannot imagine how it is like to be so ignorant as you.
I’d like you to actually prove your premise that the US started the Arab Spring events.
Gman,
Geezus, man, learn to use the internet and google history for yourself. There is only about 30 million hits.
I am not your secretary nor your high school teacher.
Yes, as I’m often told, all conspiracy theory. Sorry, just don’t have the time to argue with an idiot who can’t see his allies from his enemies.
Yeah, you consistently have no time to learn a thing.
Is there a link to the Arab Spring and Syrian civil war? Is there a link to Syrian civil war and ISIL? Reportedly, fighters from 80 nations have joined ISIS fighting in Syria and Iraq. Call me ignorant and insult me. As a thinking man, you should respect someone who thinks for themselves, not simply follow the loudest or most popular voice. It is your failure to convince me with logic and reasoning. The US is under attack because we support Israel?
I call BullDookey! I stated in this article, the US is not under attack from ISIS. Syria and Iraq are fighting for their survival. Turkey (and the US) would like to see Syria fall. Other nations are supporting Syria. Israel seems to be sitting on the sidelines keeping score.
Like I said they will do anything -screwing your niece or nephew -just sick and a huge betrayal of your whole family.
http://www.redstate.com/2014/10/31/new-york-court-allows-uncle-niece-marry/
An interesting long comment to the article. Worthy of evaluation and discussion.
Anyone want to comment on the comment??
“No, this is no joke. Leftists were already planning gay marriage back in the 70s when they started promoting no-fault divorce. That was the first step in the destruction of marriage. Look how many arguments for gay marriage focus on “what harm would it do to heterosexual marriage?” The answer, of course, is none. The damage has already been done.
The ultimate goal is to destroy the family structure and replace it with the state. Back in the 60s, daycare was denigrated as something the Soviet Union did. Think of those poor little Communist kids – having to go to a daycare center so their mothers can work for the State and the daycare center can brainwash the kids. And what do we have going on today?
Divorce is too easy and painted as the preferable alternative to working out problems. There is no stigma. Except that when a couple with children gets divorced, their kids are automatically made wards of the court. Parents have custodial rights only at the pleasure of the courts.
We know that children raised in split homes are far more likely to fail in life than kids from intact homes. So society creates and promotes a culture of failure for a majority of its children and these children end up dependent on the government.
So the traditional family is nearly destroyed and the resulting poverty and dependence is endemic.
Meanwhile, gay marriage does what for gays? Talk to gays (as I have since I am related to several) and sooner or later it comes out that living together with or without benefit of marriage isn’t of much consequence. Many of these leftists are the same voices who told us that we didn’t need marriage back in the 70s. It was a meaningless piece of paper. Now, that meaningless paper is of the utmost importance. Why? Spousal rights. No, not the right to pass your estate on to your partner. A simple will does that faster than a marriage license. Not because of hospital visitation. A Power of Attorney can take care of that in an office visit to your local attorney. The real pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (note what I did there?) is health insurance, pension benefits, etc. This is especially important for government employees – you know, those folks like teachers, social workers, municipal librarians, snow plow drivers, government staffers, bureaucrats and the like. Ever notice how many of those types are liberal? Ever notice that a much higher percentage is gay than in the general population?
Gay marriage is no joke. It is a well-thought out, well-planned, long term effort. It is a part of the push to make the population less self-reliant and more dependent on government for its very existence. It is a push to make the government in control of more and more until it is in complete control of everyone’s life, cradle to grave. And unless you are an official olde phart like me, the origins predate you. It is only in the last 10 years that anybody talked about it out loud.”
How many of these are “in action” by the Left today? http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
There have been some failures and some changes, but overall, it’s really old news!
JAC, that was quite the commentary. And spot on, I believe.
BF, gonna need you for a few minutes here so have a seat if you will and check this out. I just found out where it got mixed up. Way up top you started by saying:
If you set your neighbor’s house on fire and kill his children, and he takes revenge on you by killing your husband, you would you blame?
In this question, ‘you’ is the USA and ‘he’ is a Muslim. I keep wondering what it was in your analogy… was the thing that started it…what did the USA do to start it? So I came across this article breathing a heavy sigh of relief like you don’t even know…because it lays out the history from the maiden voyages to the USA to the present. Who badgered who, the initial responses and so on. And it explains where religion and state got mixed up…leaving us with the clusterfrick we have now..then it brings it right back to where it is individual action that is at the bottom of the whole thing…rooted in this jihad…which is individual…not political. JUST like I’ve been saying!! I have no idea if this article is factual, slanted , whatever. But I tell you what..it’s what I believe.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/090410
And you’re gonna have to tell me why I shouldn’t believe it. Or why I shouldn’t have the attitude I have. What is my alternative if all this in the article is correct. My alternative is to convert to Islam or die. I’m not one to live in the past. I don’t think that I should suffer the sins of my father, even if the USA did start it. I want to live in today. I haven’t caused these people any grief. They have stalked me since the birth of this country. At this point I could even forgive and forget if they would just STOP. Just leave me alone. But I can’t stop or I’m dead. Tell me I wrong!
And within your thread there was the claim that nobody is attacking Norwegians. Well lets take a look at the most recent threats made and the “reason” for those threats (from cnn).
“The future of Europe is becoming clearer each day, between Britain exporting a contingent to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) forces; France unable to contain Muslim demonstrators and Malmo, Sweden converted into an Islamic enclave. Now, there is a report that two Norwegians hold high positions within ISIS and take orders directly from the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr-al Baghdadi.
This latest news concerning the two Norwegians and their roles with the leaderships of ISIS breaks on the heels of the emergence of a bold, perhaps brazen, declaration of intent to create a separate Muslim nation within the sovereign state of Norway. Moreover, it comes with a threat. Ansar al-Sunna is threatening that if a section of Oslo isn’t transformed into a Sharia-compliant Muslim nation, an attack rivaling 9/11 will be launched against this Scandinavian nation.
The words speak for themselves.
“Now, the government must wake up and assume responsibility, before this war spreads to Norway. Before the counterpart reacts. Before moslems take the step necessary.
Do not confuse the moslems’ silence with weakness. Do not profit from the moslems’ patience. Do not force us to do something that can be avoided. This is not a threat, only the words of truth. The words of justice.
A warning that the consequences can be fatal. A warning about a 9/11 on Norwegian ground, or larger attacks than the one carried out on 22 July. This is for your own good and in your own best interest.
We do not want to be a part of Norwegian society. And we do not consider it necessary either to move away from Norway, because we were born and grew up here. And Allah’s earth belongs to everybody.
But let Gronland become ours. Bar this city quarter and let us control it the way we wish to do it. This is the best for both parts.
We do not wish to live together with dirty beasts like you.”
This outrageous statement deserves a strong response, though a Norwegian government already intimidated by its Muslim minority is likely to be conciliatory. By contrast, the prime minister of Australia used the appropriate vernacular. This is our country, he noted, if you want to live here we expect you to embrace our laws, our customs and our language. If you cannot do so or are unwilling to do so, you should leave. Go to a place you find more congenial.
In the case of the Norwegian Muslims, I would note that Allah doesn’t give you the right to trample the laws of the land. They do not have the privilege of challenging national sovereignty. Norway existed as a free country long before they were born here and, God willing, it will remain a free nation after they have left this mortal coil.”
BOOYA!!
Anita,
So you believe the root of the US invasions of Iraq et al comes from a bunch of pirates.
Strange, you don’t make that argument about the piracy in the Caribbean by British and French pirates. Why not? No, they were only CRIMINALS to you, because, hell, Christians doing piracy can only be CRIMINALS, whereas in your twisted brain, pirates who are MUSLIM are enforcing their RELIGION and are jihadist not criminals!
I often shake my head how easy utterly stupid ideas can take such strong hold in people’s minds.
You are not suffering the sins of your father.
You are suffering your own sins
Your father did not invade Iraq et al. Your government – which you support and promote – did
IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP, YOU MUST FIRST STOP YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND YOU MUST GET YOUR OWN HEAD STRAIGHT.
BF
She was asking you to take the time and respond to the story/article. Not simply throw insults.
Take the time to deal with the facts of the article. Especially respond to the similarity between the early American experience with the supposed belief of Islam vs what we here the radicals repeating today.
I did respond.
It is the same Christian ideology – that Christians in commission of evil do not invalidate their religion, but Muslims in commission of the same evil does invalidate their religion.
This mind twist has been going on since the beginning of Islam. There is nothing more infuriating to the irrational religious mind as a belief system which proclaims its roots from the same religious theory and then adds to it.
One side sees the other as violently misguided, and the other side sees the other as violently blasphemous.
BF
The “Christian Pirates” did not pirate in the name of Christ, did not use the Bible to justify their piracy, and are not still pirating. Your comparison is a “diversion”, a weak attempt at equivalency that is not related to the key question.
The radical Muslim of today is using the same rhetoric of the rulers who Jefferson tried to negotiate with over two hundred years ago. IT HAS NOT CHANGED. So can you address WHY that has not changed?
Can you address whether Islam is in fact compatible with western civilization? That is the Islam propagated by its primary leadership, from the Middle East.
Does Islam demand a melding of Religious doctrine with Government, are they required to be one in the same? Explain your viewpoint on this key question.
JAC
Of course they did – you confuse a cultural difference about the display for the lack.
” IT HAS NOT CHANGED. So can you address WHY that has not changed?”
LOL! So now you complain they are consistent, compared to your whimsical which-ever-the-wind-blows beliefs! LOL!
But, JAC, Christians have not changed either; they still hold they are “saved” no matter what act like in life, and like the Jews who believe they are the “chosen ones”.
So what is your problem?
Of course it is. They live all around you right now.
And yes, it is a cultural religion. Geezus, you don’t complain that most Buddhists are Indian?
And yes, Islam is equally a religion and a political movement – no less then the Catholic church was a few hundred years ago.
Look, you are clueless to the history of Islam – you live in the world of propaganda, and thus you have no clue to why they are why they are.
You have no idea why they were the world’s most advanced civilization nor why -literally- in one generation, they collapsed.
Because of your ignorance of that matter, you doom your own culture to follow the same path.
Been catching up…..and gotta say, BF, that was a weak response. JAC asked some pretty basic questions and you skirted, diverted and then opted for the usual criticism. Go back and read his post and try again.
Kathy,
Review the volume of posts I have made. Repetition to those with concrete from brains rarely is effective.
Your correct Kathy, BF has bullshit and propaganda. He lacks facts and is not seeing reality. he’s stuck in his bullshit anarchist world that is no different that the Left wing utopia being spewed, it’s all bullshit and will never work.
BF. You can claim whatever you want to claim about Christians. I don’t know any Christians who advocate killing someone because they won’t convert. No, priest, nuns, popes or laymen. We are not on the offense, why do we have to stop defending ourselves? Why does the Norwegian Christian have to stop defending himself? Why does the Iraqi Christian have to stop? Why can’t you tell the Muslim to stop stalking? What is your advice to the Muslim fighters? Do they get the same ‘no violence on non violent men’ speech?
And that’s another thing….. Just returned from Rome. I think that the Italian government ought to return eh Papal lands that were taken away in 1870 or thereabouts during the revolution. Seems to me that there is a historical right involved.
….from the same theory then add to it
Yeah, they added the part that says they can kill me. How convenient. Wish I got to make the rules.
IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP, YOU MUST FIRST STOP YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT
Really, and your proposal to do such a thing is what? How does little Anita stop the 800K gorilla? This is the stupidest thing you have posted in quite some time, maybe you should seek mental help, you have lost it!
Actually, my dogs couldn’t bark something that damn stupid.
Gman,
Idiotic as usual.
First, you don’t stop the gorilla by cheering for his action, do ya?
I do not support the actions of the US government and haven’t for some time. If you would read the posts instead of just throwing everyone in the same group, you would know this. But, no one is right except you, no matter what. Your nuts.
Gman,
There are many dimensions to your discourse.
You may not agree with your government actions, but you agree with your government’s propaganda
Bullshit, and ALL of my posts support my position. Your grasping at straws because you have no other course. Simply put, you are DEAD WRONG!
Gman,
You are an Islamphobe – for no reason.
Well, let’s see. I’ve been called an Islamphobe, homophobe, racist, antigovernment, hateful, an animal killer, and just about every other negative thing that loser name callers can come up with. So, let’s make it simple, I’m not any of those things because I just hate every fucking body, and I don’t need a reason. So you can’t call me a “phobe” of anyone, because I just hate’em all! Does that solve your little narcisstic sociapathic mind Flaggie? Make it easier for you to understand that your immature name calling has no results because there is nothing you can call me anymore that even remotely bothers me? Guess what, I just plain HATE, for no Fing reason at all. You know why? Because I can hate all I Fing want and I can do it peacefully. Enjoy your little immature attacks on everyone, karma will one day come back to get even! 😀
What an interesting argument going on about Muslims and infidels and “total war”. I will submit that there is no one that knows how to wage total war. Everyone that “wages” war tries to believe that there is a moral way to fight a war……That there must be “gentleman’s rules” to waging war. How sad that this mindset exists. When it is decided to go to war, there are no innocents. As BF has so eloquently and correctly stated, if ANY country decides to wage war, then ALL in that country are equally guilty in the eyes of the vanquished. It matters not if there is a newborn baby or an old woman….they are the enemy in the eyes of the defeated or the attacked. IN short…….there are no innocents. None. Civilians are no less important than the tank…..somebody built the tank. To wage war with rules creates this type of dialogue. In the eyes of the radical movement, there are no innocents…..and I would ask the question of anyone….who is innocent in war? My answer is……no one.
Take the issue of the British and the American fight for independence. There was a line in the movie The Patriot that really tells it all….it is when Cornwallis was lecturing one of his Dragoons about being bested by “The Ghost”….to which the answer was….THey do not fight like regular troops. THey shoot from ambush, they target officers at the outset.”. During the Battle of New Orleans, the British marched in open fields lines abreast and the Americans shot from behind trees and hay bales and ditches and any cover they could…..WHY? Because you could not beat the British in open field. So you fight a guerilla war.
Fast forward…..the only weapon that the so called terrorists, some would call them freedom fighters, have is………terror. They cannot stand in open field against the US or any “so called” Imperialist empire. So what do they do….they result in their form of fighting…..terror, ambush, or whatever means that they can do. They see Western powers as the enemy and they see that everyone who is a member of these powers is fair game….the enemy. There are no innocents.
SOOOOOO…..get it through your heads everyone…….there are no innocents.
Now…to BF’s root cause. I suppose you could also say….for every action there is a reaction. There is ALWAYS a root cause in any confrontation. Now, where BF and I will differ is i what is the root cause….but he is correct in that there is a root cause….there always is…….without exception.
Are these radical Islam insane…..I do not think so. They are at war and we are the enemy….and no one is immune. No one should be…..not in total war. BF and I also differ in that if the root cause ( in his mind, hegemony)no linger existed….that the radical Islamic groups will cease to exist. I do not agree but that is another argument to which thousands of years of history need to be revisited and not a mere 200 years.
The US has created a vacuum in Iraq and is creating the same vacuum in Afghanistan. ….something will fill it.
It is a good thing that D13 was not in charge in WWII……I would have waged total war and not rebuilt either Japan nor Germany. I woukd have eliminated whatever threat was against us….and left it to its own demise. One thing about war….in my opinion…..we owe nothing to the defeated.
So…we have Islamic radicals bent on revenge…..get used to it….it is here to stay and there is nothing you can do about it. Be observant and carry your weapon.
D13, Good day to you and yours 🙂
I’ve been totally focusing on deer hunting and Fantasy football, I needed a break from all the political BS. Till Monday, it’s break time from hunting. Time to rest and remotivate for the last two weeks of archery, which also happens to be the best part, the rut! The NFL and the fantasy game relaxes me and provides a needed break from the ill’s of the world for a short time.
As far as the Islamic radicals, I’m of the opinion that those who are not with them (ISIS) and their views are the enemy, including other Muslims. They have proven this with their actions.
The bottom line, as you stated so perfectly, be observant and carry your weapon!
d13
Good morning my Texican friend.
I agree with your general premise but want to nitpick some of the details.
We all to often forget that “War is an extension of politics”, not the result in the breakdown of politics.
Thus debates over “total war” may be appropriate. I agree that all people are viewed as the enemy in a War, the question becomes how to wage the war. Total war is an all out assault on the general population. I do not think this is always required.
So in this context I am using Total War more specifically than you are. Apples to Oranges.
Total War was first used by the USA to “break the spirit” of the “traitors”. It was justified as being necessary to end the war. However, if one understands the “extension of politics” theory then total war was not just a tactic to “end the war”, it was a tactic to permanently imbed a sense of “defeat” among all the people in the region. Let me add that it worked. Hence the continued existence of the phrase, “The Northern War of Aggression”.
We also forget to place war strategies and tactics in the context of the technology available at the time. If we had precision “smart bombs” in WWII perhaps the carpet/fire bombing of Germany would not have been required.
Where you and I will differ some,,,,,is the introduction of politics into war…….once war is determined to be used……there should be no political outcome.
d13
EVERYTHING is politics, including war.
Now I will agree that once the political settles on war then political manipulations of strategies and tactics should not occur.
BUT, the general GOALS of war are established by the POLITICAL objectives, not the military. Where I have serious heart burn is deciding to use war but then setting goals/objectives that are not to WIN.
If it is war we MUST have then it is war that we should wage. Until the other guys surrender or are eliminated. If the other guys actions do not warrant such treatment then the politicians should leave the war club sheathed.
I am not so sure we actually disagree. The statement about war being an “extension” of politics was coined many decades back to describe the “historical” context of all wars until now.
That does not mean it is proper. Perhaps a new theory on the use of war should be employed.
JAC,
Agreed, a new theory is necessary.
“War is never necessary”
D13,
Then you are merely a barbarian with such an attitude.
War “was once” merely a means to enforce one’s will over another State. Such “State will” is absolutely POLITICAL. Once the war obtained (or prevented) such exercise of that will, the war was over.
The US since 1865 has accepted your mindset – that war is no longer about enforcing political will, but a means of total subjugation, death and destruction of the opponents.
In absolutely every case, such a methodology has undermined civilization and the consequences of such a action negatively impacts that nation for generations.
JAC,
“We also forget to place war strategies and tactics in the context of the technology available at the time. If we had precision “smart bombs” in WWII perhaps the carpet/fire bombing of Germany would not have been required.”
You are so funny sometimes.
Ask Iraqi’s about being carpet bombed…..
BF
You are so funny. If we had used carpet bombing Fallujah would not exist at all. Neither would large cities in Iraq.
There was nothing in Iraq resembling Dresden or Tokyo.
JAC
Nah, nothing like it at all
You are so obtuse, its becoming sickening.
We did not CARPET BOMB Iraq. That sir is a FACT.
Riigghttt…. those darn Muslims let those buildings fall down all by themselves.
On April 26, 1937, in the midst of the Spanish Civil War (a prelude to World War II), the planes of the German Condor Legion attacked the ancient Basque town of Guernica. They came in waves, first carpet bombing, then dropping thermite incendiaries. It was a market day and there may have been as many as 7,000-10,000 people, including refugees, in the town which was largely destroyed in the ensuing fire storm. More than 1,600 people may have died there (though some estimates are lower). The Germans reputedly dropped about 50 tons or 100,000 pounds of explosives on the town. In the seven decades between those two 100,000 figures lies a sad history of our age.
Arab Jabour, the Sunni farming community about 10 miles south of the Iraqi capital that was the target of the latest 100,000-pound barrage has recently been largely off-limits to American troops and their Iraqi allies. The American military now refers generically to all Sunni insurgents who resist them as “al Qaeda,” so in situations like this it’s hard to tell exactly who has held this territory.
“From Tuesday afternoon through early Wednesday the air wing flew 69 dedicated strike missions in Basra and in and around Baghdad, involving 27 F/A-18 Hornets and 12 Tomcats. They dropped nearly 100,000 pounds of ordnance, said Lt. Brook DeWalt, Kitty Hawk public affairs officer.”
, there were five times as many U.S. air strikes in 2007 as in 2006; and 2008 has, of course, started off with a literal bang from those 100,000 pounds of explosives dropped southeast of Baghdad. That poundage assumedly includes the 40,000 pounds of explosives that got modest headlines for being delivered in a mere 10 minutes in the Arab Jabour area the previous week, but not the 16,500 pounds of explosives that White reports being used north of Baghdad in approximately the same period; nor, evidently, another 15,000 pounds of explosives dropped on Arab Jabour more recently. (And none of these numbers seem to include Marine Corps figures for Iraq, which have evidently not been released.)
But dropping 100,000 tonnes of bombs on Arab Jabour is not carpet bombing but….In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945, 722 heavy bombers of the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and 527 of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs…. is carpet bombing.
You are insane, JAC
THE SORTIE COUNT & TONNAGE DELIVERED: Gulf War One
v a total of 109,876 sorties were flown during the war
– USAF flew 59%: 64,827 sorties
– all others flew 41%: 45,049 sorties
v Between 17Jan and 02Mar, coalition air forces flew over 112,000 sorties and
dropped over 88,000 tons of ordnance (“From Shield to Storm”, page 145)
93% of munitions were dropped by B-52 carpet bombing
From “Behind the Invasion of Iraq”
the US has dropped a one TON bomb for every 52 Iraqi citizens … that equates to roughly 40 pounds of explosives for each and every Iraqi citizen
Since the beginning of the war, the press release said, the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing alone had dropped more than five hundred thousand tons of ordnance. (2002)
But Lindqvist quotes a French general who drove 2500 km through postwar Iraq “and in the villages everything was destroyed. We found fragments of bomb dating from 1968, left over from Vietnam. This was the same kind of bombing I did half a century ago in World War II.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing
Going back to 1937 to support a position is like screwing to promote virginity.
Gman,
All you show is how ignorant you are about history, its consequences, and the facts.
Must be nice to live mindlessly.
Yeah, why don’t you read how the US carpet bombed Iraq – geez man, get a grip
D13
“SOOOOOO…..get it through your heads everyone…….there are no innocents.”
What utter nonsense and barbarianism.
Just because YOU and your ilk cannot separate the innocent from your foes, you pretend everyone is your foe.
If you want to face your foe in the open field, no problem. Simply send over your tanks, fighter bombers, missiles batteries to him for him to use against you. He will be there.
But you do not want that, so your foe will use the weapons he has. You don’t like that because it undermines your little game. In your frustration that he refuses to abide by your plans, you destroy everyone.
“The US has created a vacuum in Iraq and is creating the same vacuum in Afghanistan. ….something will fill it.”
The created it by entering the fray, not by leaving it.
Putting a bomb into a building then blowing up the building, then complaining latter saying “Well, now that the building is gone, something else is going to be built there that maybe we do not want” is foolish. You shouldn’t have put the bomb there in the first place.
“. One thing about war….in my opinion…..we owe nothing to the defeated.”
You are truly barbaric, and as such, you promote your own destruction. You plant the seeds of retribution that will sprout generations later upon your children – but you don’t care, you will be dead.
Your one-dimensional thinking is the root of most of history’s creation of mankind’s self-created strife.
Good morning, BF…I do hope you and yours are doing well…….Now, where to start….
Hmmmm….As to my “there are no innocents”….I do not need to explain my position….perhaps you should explain why and where there are innocents….My context was in relation to the “total War” concept that was being discussed. In total war, there are no innocents….on either side. Those who died and those who did the killing. Total war means just that. TOTAL. Any other definition is pointless. War is pointless but sometimes there is no possible way for peace except through capitulation or sticking one’s head into the sand. So, in the concept of TOTAL WAR……that means total destruction. Total destruction means annihilation. Therefore in the concept of total war, there are no innocents. You cannot make the argument that a civilian population forced into war production is innocent. They are not….they are making war materials….the making of war materials is a target regardless of whom is in there. Women, children, or a machine.
Am I a barbarian…..yes, sir, I am, when it comes to war. I have been through enough fire fights in different countries where women, children, hospitals, and such were just as dangerous and weapons wielding….I saw this in Vietnam and Bosnia. BUT, and I still believe this and call me anything you want, once war is determined by stupid politicians that are not in the middle of it themselves….then war should be total. No rules. Otherwise, there should be no need.
BF says: “If you want to face your foe in the open field, no problem. Simply send over your tanks, fighter bombers, missiles batteries to him for him to use against you. He will be there.” Pointless, my friend. I acknowledged your position that the enemy can use anything at his disposal, including terrorism…..there are no guarantees when the fighting starts. I do not advocate that anyone that cannot face me in open field is cowardly. If I were being clobbered in open field, I would resort to any tactic that I could use for my side.
BF says: “The created it by entering the fray, not by leaving it.” Semantics……both statements are correct. And many times, you have read from me that being there was stupid and ill advised.
BF says: ” You are truly barbaric, and as such, you promote your own destruction. You plant the seeds of retribution that will sprout generations later upon your children – but you don’t care, you will be dead. ” Yes, I am barbaric and I admit it……when it comes to war. If the decision to go to war is made, then it should be final….period. Perhaps you need to explain, that once the decision is made to go to war, why we would owe anything to anybody after the war was over…..why not fold up tents and go home? You rail against crusaders yet you wish to become one.
Barbarism is a very funny term…..one thing that I have seen, been part of, and witnessed on many occasions, is the barbaric manner in which an engagement is fought. Buildings destroyed, people dead….and then after the battle, those heinous AMERICAN barbaric soldiers will share the last drop of water, food, or medical supplies with the vanquished, including wounded enemy soldiers. Those same barbaric American soldiers that will share their plasma with the enemy wounded and non combatants caught n the crossfire. Those same barbaric American soldiers that call in med evacs and load wounded women and children before their own wounded. Yes, we are barbaric.
If barbarism is saving the life of one of my soldiers over the lives of others that are in the fray….then I am guilty.
“perhaps you should explain why and where there are innocents”
How about “they don’t have guns and aren’t shooting at you”
Geezus, man.
I know in your sick mindset, everyone is an enemy – which is why the destruction of western civilization continues.
“Pointless, my friend. I acknowledged your position that the enemy can use anything at his disposal, including terrorism”
Again, a sick mine trying to pretend to carry my position.
I said no such thing.
Read carefully, just try for once.
Terrorism is the last resort of men who have NO OTHER MEANS, it is not the first choice.
Semanitcs??? Geez, more sickness.
No the fact. Had the US not dabbled in “regime change”, the events that surrond you would not occur. This is not semantics, but cause/effect analysis – which given your mindset, you have ZERO ability to understand
You are not saving your men by slaughtering women and children. You are making enemies far more grave then your simple mind can imagine.
My dream results for the upcoming election.
Republicans keep the House and take the Senate, but McConnell LOSES.
I don’t think that McConnell stays in even if he wins.
d13
If the R’s take the Senate, and McConnell is re-elected, he will be the new Leader.
The Tea Party faction does not have enough votes to role the old time mainstream “progressive” Elephants. The evidence for my view is supported by the “establishment” R’s success in holding off Tea Party types in the primary elections.
If the R’s do take the Senate we will have a front row seat to the Fight that will ensue when the Tea Party and Conservative factions collide with the Neo-cons and Rhinos.
We are still the insurgency, not yet the majority.
YOu might be right, JAC. But I am not so optimistic about McConnel’s future role, if re-elected and the Senate goes red. I am willing to bet that if he is elected as the Senate Majority leader, his attitude will change, if he wants to stay there. I really think the interesting part is going to be the house…..if the polling holds and the reds pick up 7-15 more house seats, I am betting that the power in the house goes more conservative than the RINOS want….
Now, on to Halloween…..I watched an interesting segment on MSNBC ( yes, I do watch ignorant tv on occasion ). There was a hell of an argument about how Halloween is now sexist and racist and should be eliminated…..The basis……..very interesting.
If you wear a sexy Policeman’s uniform…you create and environment of sexual discrimination. Same if you wear the sexy nurse outfit. Any cultural cross dressing is an insult and racist…..if you dress up as an Indian, Mexican ( sombrero and serape’ ), a Cowboy, a witch or pirate, and you are none of these in reality….you have committed an offense.
All Hallows Eve : Halloween had its beginnings in an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic festival of the dead. The Celtic peoples, who were once found all over Europe, divided the year by four major holidays. According to their calendar, the year began on a day corresponding to November 1st on our present calendar. The date marked the beginning of winter. Since they were pastoral people, it was a time when cattle and sheep had to be moved to closer pastures and all livestock had to be secured for the winter months. Crops were harvested and stored. The date marked both an ending and a beginning in an eternal cycle.
The festival observed at this time was called Samhain (pronounced Sah-ween). It was the biggest and most significant holiday of the Celtic year. The Celts believed that at the time of Samhain, more so than any other time of the year, the ghosts of the dead were able to mingle with the living, because at Samhain the souls of those who had died during the year traveled into the otherworld. People gathered to sacrifice animals, fruits, and vegetables. They also lit bonfires in honor of the dead, to aid them on their journey, and to keep them away from the living. On that day all manner of beings were abroad: ghosts, fairies, and demons–all part of the dark and dread. ”
Has anyone been to Mexico for Dia De Muertos? Very interesting…the graveyards are adorned with festival activities and parties where they celebrate with their dead loved ones.
Halloween, ghosts and goblins, scary creatures and free candy going to way of political correctness…how sad……I am glad that I can remember my halloween days……Hundreds of children dressed up and freely walking the neighborhoods and getting pounds and pounds of candy…..and no one gave a rat’s ass of what you looked like.
How can the Left make good little Communist kids if they know how to have fun?
Glenn Beck is also complaining about the Halloween Costumes for kids which are all “sexualizing our children”. I think his point is valid but it makes me wonder WHO is buying the costumes.
Do not the costume makers simply meet the “demand”? Or are we now claiming that a business can drive/force us to buy things we don’t want?? Or is it that most parents are simply to lazy to make a costume that is not “sexy”?
Funny. Stupid, but funny. Watch until the end.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/194838-obamas-secret-service-targets-iconoclastic-conservative-street-artist-sabo-turns-tables/
Out.Of.Control.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/Federal-Government-Made-20-Billion-in-Secret-Purchases-in-Recent-Months-280997562.html
Any of you have these $3000 micropurchases limit in your private company jobs?
Kathy
FYI, other agencies issue credit cards to employees but the employee is responsible for paying the card off……….along with all interest and penalties.
The card companies have some Govt contract and require full payment each month, like American Express. My wife’s card was from Bank of America and was a VISA card.
Over the years the Govt ripped us off for thousands in interest because they would not reimburse her travel costs for a month after we actually paid the charge card.
A quick hijack: Back in April we had an event that should be constantly remembered and brought up. Cliven Bundy v. BLM. BLM loses big time and not one single legal action has been taken against Bundy. In fact, it may be possible that Bundy may now claim ownership of the 600,000 acres that the BLM claims.
This is a great example of how the govt works and how they can be beat. Everyone should know the Constitution and their Rights that are guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. These are not “granted rights”, these are rights that the government is required by law to protect, at all levels of government. When they claim a higher power, the right to self defense should be considered. Tell them, without hesitation, that you will defend your Rights, with lethal force if needed. Let the bully know, that pig won’t fly around you!
gman
As I told you before, the BLM is not going to let Bundy continue grazing without a permit or without paying his fees.
His days are numbered. The only thing that can save him is some Congressional action in his favor. But that will be opposed by the greenies and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association. Most ranchers in Nevada have no use for Bundy and his claims.
Yes, I read what you said, just haven’t seen the actions supporting it. WHY? Because legally, the BLM have lost.
gman
Not at all. They have not lost one single LEGAL battle or issue.
There is an outstanding court order against Bundy.
The BLM is simply mired down in a situation they created by not taking prompt action in the first place. And that was because of the problems they created over their strong arm methods of enforcement.
ROTFLMAO…………..
Wonder if anyone in Montana will see this and get some great idea for the Bobcat vs. Grizzly game.
I am imagining a dead Grizzly hanging from a goal post………………
Anyhow, it is the comments from those who have been completely disconnected from the natural world that are the most humorous………..and frustrating.
The only crime here is poaching………if in fact that is what happened. Someone needs to tell PETA to stick it where the sun don’t shine.
Maybe some necked PETAs hanging from the goal post…….. hmmmmmmm……..??
http://eagnews.org/shock-dead-bobcat-hung-from-goal-post-before-school-rivals-big-game/
Pretty cool pics from Lake Michigan yesterday. 21ft waves recorded. Dang. Talk about the gales of November come early! Brings to mind a particular freighter, lost on the 10th of this month, 1975. http://www.mlive.com/weather/index.ssf/2014/10/lake_michigan_buoy_records_217.html
Crazy pics of Lake Shore Drive in Chicago too:
http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/video-time-lapse-flooding-on-nb-lake-shore-drive/375235/
Nice, better than my link. Lost power three times yesterday. Still blustery.
The high winds kill a deer hunt. I stay indoors and catch up on some neglected chores (and try and drive Flaggie crazy 🙂 ). Training a new dog, Lab/hound dog mix, about a year and a half old. Very friendly male, black with white stocking legs and huge paws. Smart as hell and learning quite quickly. I know this may sound mean, but I use a shock collar when training dogs over a year old. It don’t take much, and it’s mostly a tool to teach them how far they can travel and listen to the “NO” command. I don’t approve of jumping on people either, we’ll see how the “NO” command training works. We’ll see how things work in a week or two. Shouldn’t take long.
Cool. Should make a good hunting companion. My labs are 8 and 9 now. My next best friends will be English Springer Spaniels. Hope to cut the food bill in half 🙂
I may train him to do some hunting, time will tell. Woke up to SNOW covering the ground, it’s melting but Geez, it feels like December 2nd, not November.
Anita
” My next best friends will be English Springer Spaniels. Hope to cut the food bill in half ”
So your going to eat the Spaniels??? I didn’t know you were part “native”.
Haha! I’m not Obama now!
Anita, I remember this song from music class back in grade school. it’s snowing out, yuk! I want summer first, before winter comes back. Not much of a summer.
Me too, G. Everyone around here knows this song by memory. Love G. Lightfoot. He’s been on more roadtrips with me than I can count. Bonfire music too!
Thanks, it brought back some fond memories when life was much simpler 🙂
This must be the result of the US education system, right Flaggie?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816766/WARNING-GRAPHIC-CONTENT-Shocking-ISIS-photos-shows-toddler-kicking-severed-head-crucifixion-ex-regime-policeman-Syria.html#ixzz3Hp2MlAR6
Saw that earlier. He’s just insane, of course.
Kathy, this is indicative of this group of people. ISIS are barbarians who want to rule with their version of Islam.
Typical BS from the Left. Maybe the Anarchist’s could use this to keep people AWAY from the polls (not the worst idea): http://nypost.com/2014/10/30/democrats-threaten-voters-to-get-to-the-polls/
@ Gman
” Well, let’s see. I’ve been called an Islamphobe, homophobe, racist, antigovernment, hateful, an animal killer, and just about every other negative thing that loser name callers can come up with. So, let’s make it simple, I’m not any of those things because I just hate every fucking body, and I don’t need a reason. So you can’t call me a “phobe” of anyone, because I just hate’em all! Does that solve your little narcisstic sociapathic mind Flaggie? Make it easier for you to understand that your immature name calling has no results because there is nothing you can call me anymore that even remotely bothers me? Guess what, I just plain HATE, for no Fing reason at all. You know why? Because I can hate all I Fing want and I can do it peacefully. Enjoy your little immature attacks on everyone, karma will one day come back to get even! ”
Do you remember the article you posted a while back?, …the one about whether or not the human race can change from a civilization built on war and violence to one of peace, and without causing a major catastrophe?
(I really appreciate you posting that, as it has been great food for a lot of thought)
Okay, well, the answer is ‘no’. At least not in any relatively expedient manner (which is what is needed). It is because we humans are animals who are either too selfish or stupid.
As a result, we manage the primary pillars of our world, be it Economics, Politics, and Religion, bass akwards.
In order for us to do a ‘change-over’, we would have to start by collectively stopping what we’re doing, reassess, then figure out and agree upon a New World Order which is beneficial to all, then start with a clean slate via a new generation of children.
…Ain’t gonna happen, …because of the above cited reasons. We’re too f’d up to even start.
If by some miracle, we could actually pull it off, …My recommendation is Anarchy/Libertarianism, Free Market Economics, and something resembling Gnosticism.
Anarchy requires we understand, value, and respect natural rights and responsibility to ourselves and communities. As it is, people still don’t even understand the definition of Anarchism. They think something peaceful orderly and evolved, is chaos because they’ve been trained from an early age to think that peace happiness and freedom is violence and coercion, obedience and loyalty to the state. The current state of affairs is completely barbaric and unprincipled.
Free Market economics would be a result of anarchy, and according to Hayek, would simply fall into place to become self balancing. I agree. It makes good sense to me. The obstacle is the filthy rich/power elite exploiting government and human nature, etc ..to maintain their stronghold over their slaves. Freedom for all is not especially beneficial to them, thus they will resist a movement or revolution in any way they are able.
Religion as we know it, is basically antiquated literalistic fairy tale cultist bullshit. We need to evolve into a state of post-theism.
Granted; until we have all the answers, there will always be some form of religion. Religion has ultimately been an, arguably, necessary and beneficial part of our development, but has outlived it’s usefulness in current form. We are evolving past it and need to drop the nonsense like dead weight.
What we need is an anti-thesis to throw the current thesis into question, to break people free, thus initiating the process to arrive at a synthesis. I found one, but it is complicated to say the least. (And the biggest issue is all the people who know what is really going on, who have been following me around playing stupid sick games, but refuse to take an honest forthright helpful approach.)
Forgetting everything I have previously stated above, Ultimately, the answer is Love. But people are too selfish and stupid to ‘get it’. Otherwise, the answer is to kill almost everyone and start over, or find a means of initiating chaos and see who makes it. My guess is that humanity will continue to enslave itself.
Personally, I have no reason to give a damn about much of anything, including the future of mankind, as I currently have no legacy to protect, little hope of acquiring one, and nothing invested into this planet. Fuck YOUR world with hate if you like. Until I create a legacy, it is not my place to care or be too involved.
As for Flag, I probably trust him less than anyone here, …but he’s right on many levels.
I use that answer to those who say “Your prejudice”. I’d always reply “I can’t be prejudice because I hate everybody”. As you can see, that reply destroys the prejudice crap and tends to send the name caller packing with his tail between his/her legs (so to speak). Flaggie is a small minded person who has a mental superiority issue and must use name calling as a hedge to his own mental problems. I actually don’t hate very much, at least not any group of people based on their religion, skin color or whatever. Character is still and always be the #1 factor when I deal with people. Flaggie’s character lacks maturity and borders on mentally ill. I ranted, nothing more 🙂
Hope your doing well this fine Sunday morning. Woke up to snow covering the ground, yippee! It has since melted but it’s quite chilly and windy. Good day to relax and watch the NFL. Gonna cook a fresh venison roast in the slow cooker with homegrown tators, carrots and onions. Throw in a fresh salad and it’s a good healthy meal! Hope your day is a good one!
Yeah, I know you are just giving him flak. And I am defending his points in spite of him giving me reason to question trusting him. Understandably, he appears frustrated to me.
And I am not so much picking on you as much as I am taking the opportunity to preach peace, even if it doesn’t currently benefit me personally.
The fallacy of false choices:
” Ultimately, the answer is Love. But people are too selfish and stupid to ‘get it’. Otherwise, the answer is to kill almost everyone and start over, or find a means of initiating chaos and see who makes it. “
Keep thinking.
It comes down to 4 courses.
A – Peace
B – Enslavement
C – Genocide
D – Order out of Chaos
Most people choose B.
D may happen anyway.
C sucks and is playing God.
A is the obvious answer.
Choices should involve opposites and they should include all choices.
A. Peace vs. War or Peace vs. Violence
B. Enslavement vs. Freedom
C. Genocide vs. all other forms of killing.
D. Order vs. Chaos
If you subscribe to the theory that you get order from chaos then that order could involve any one of the other choices, peace/war/slavery/freedom/genocide/other.
Order does not demand peace or freedom. But order does not preclude either.
My point about false choices was presenting LOVE as the only option for Peace.
Tolerance and respect are more than adequate to support peaceful existence. And a lot more likely or possible.
” Choices should involve opposites and they should include all choices.”
That is like saying that the best way to get from point A to point B is to go route 1 or sit still, or route B or sit still.
” If you subscribe to the theory that you get order from chaos then that order could involve any one of the other choices, peace/war/slavery/freedom/genocide/other. Order does not demand peace or freedom. But order does not preclude either.”
Order is the only recourse to Chaos. Arguably, they are 2 dynamics/parts of the same thing. When I made that statement, I meant it in the context of not trying to sort or judge people, to let nature sort it out.
” My point about false choices was presenting LOVE as the only option for Peace. Tolerance and respect are more than adequate to support peaceful existence. And a lot more likely or possible. ”
Tolerance and respect are a form of acts of agape. To love something/someone is to value it, respect it and/or tolerate it. Love thy neighbor or love the idea of a free and peaceful society. The result is the same either way. It all boils down to agape/love.
Further,
The point is generally described options of the goal of how to manage the world we live in.
If we continue to demand more government, more rules, more social standards to live by, more divide and conquer, more war, more taxes, etc,etc etc, instead of correcting the current by holding true to solid principles for a free and peaceful society, …we’ll eventually get to something akin to ‘Nineteen Eighty Four’. This is enslavement, option B.
We can choose option A, but people are typically either too stupid or selfish to do so. They either cannot think outside the box in order to break free from their indoctrinated mindset of coercion by default, they are too lazy, too complacent, or they are somehow benefiting from getting to force their way onto others and don’t care who it violates.
We can try to figure out who is inclined to respect rights and live in peace, make a list, then kill everyone else, thus leaving a peaceful population inclined to teach their children the same. But that just ain’t right, and may even eventually lead back to B.
Or we can induce chaos and allow nature to do the sorting. Or wait until chaos happens anyway as a result of a failed system. If B continues, it may bust into chaos, a new order to follow.
A is the real answer. B (based on force) is sort of the opposite of A. The other options are more like contingencies to get back to A.
JAC……told ya about the Houston thing…..and the next election…..the Houston mayor will be gone. She was elected with only 13% of the population voting….the next election will be interesting. As a side note, all she did was hurt the LGBT cause. No one will care very much around here about their cause any longer….not with leaders like that.
I hope she is voted out-I was very curious what grounds they used to throw out the petition to put this new law up for a public referendum-finally I found out that they had approximately 55,000 signatures when they only needed about 17,000. The person, can’t remember the proper title, but the one who is supposed to sign off on these things-signed off on it-it was validated by the proper parties-then the lawyers stepped in. They throw it out, from my reading anyway, based on names being printed instead of in cursive and on some cursive names being illegible. They threw out, at the least 38,000 signatures. This woman is trying to silence the voice and the vote of her constituents-she has shown a total disregard for the law-for the people’s rights. The whole Churches can’t participate really has very little to do with this situation because individual people can and even if they find that the church broke the law, it would affect their tax exemptions-it wouldn’t invalidate the rights of individual people to vote for a referendum. If it can than I say we throw all the democrats out of office right now for the IRS targeting of conservatives-and for Obama’s “friends” getting information on voters through less than legal means.
I often laugh at the definition of carpet bombing…….dropping bombs in a defined area……technically, carpet bombing happens every time you open the bay doors. I often laugh at the selective use of technology. Minimize casualties….minimize collateral damage…pin point accuracy…
Ask a soldier in the field for those definitions….ask the politicians and the academia about those definitions……see what the answer is.
d13
Good morning Sir.
I agree that the definition of carpet bombing has lost its real meaning. At least the meaning that created the term “carpet” as in wall to wall…….covering every inch. I laughed when I searched for video or pictures of carpet bombing and got a bunch of a “single aircraft” dropping its load.
The issue on the table was total war and destruction of civilian populations, as in cities and towns. I was using the term “carpet bombing” in the context of WWII where we leveled entire cities. Excluding the obvious Church, another cause for laughter from this Barbarian.
Hope all is well in the Republic this fine day. We have settled into the Fall RAINY period. Which means you never know when it can turn to snow.
Re the elections. I am not as confident as the pundits that the R’s will take the Senate. It will depend on “run off” races early next year, as in Louisiana and So Carolina.
I will go out on a limb and make this claim. If the R’s win control and then launch immediately into a bunch of gay marriage and abortion/contraception legislation, like many State Legislatures did 4 years ago, it will be the last time R’s control both houses in my lifetime. The same will be true if they start passing a bunch of “special funding earmarks” with the Budget resolutions.
They are about to be given a second chance, I have little confidence they won’t squander it. But one can still hope.
Meanwhile the States continue their move towards Republican ideas about smaller and more efficient Govt.
P.S.
The context in which I use “carpet bombing” in conjunction with Total War:
BF….I am curious how you would apply the term barbarian in the civilian business world. Would you call a person barbarian in a hostile takeover? Would you call a person barbarian in a non hostile takeover but the result is the same? Is putting people out of work to save a dollar barbarian? Is the law of supply and demand barbarian if the result is still the same? Is not business, the same as war, without the bullets?
Is venture capitalism ( the buying up of companies and the disposal of assets ) barbaric?
Of course not, since it is voluntary.
Interesting contradiction…..let us take…venture capitalism….a group of businessmen consolidate their assets in amounts big enough to buy an existing company…..venture. These same business men (stockholders) sell the company for their fortune…then the surviving businessmen sell the assets of the company and it is destroyed resulting in numerous lives and families (employees) being hurt and/or decimated. Life savings destroyed, jobs destroyed, families having to move, schools disrupted, personal bankruptcies….etc. It seems to me, that under your definition, this is not only evil ( innocent employees ) but also barbaric in its total destruction.
The same could be said for hostile takeovers where a group of persons control the stock of a company and force a sale that is not wanted nor warranted….this is not “voluntary” exchange….it is hostile….perhaps evil? Perhaps barbaric?
“I am curious how you would apply the term barbarian in the civilian business world.”
Of course not. Exchange that is voluntary is not barbaric, by civilized. Instead of theft of the barbarian, it is trade by civilized men.
“Hostile take over”???
Oh, gee, people are selling their shares to their benefit to someone that another doesn’t want to sell their shares. Geezus – it is this nonsense thinking that pollutes the pedestrian mindset.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/11/03/educated-white-democrats-run-blacks-out-of-town-republican-cities-welcome-them/
Black Flag
Are Islamic “Terrorists”, or what ever you want to call them, JUSTIFIED in their attacks on American civilians? Whether here in the USA or abroad.
Please explain your answer, whether yes or no.
Yes, I poached this. I wanted folks to read it without having to do the click and follow.
Moral Hazard and Socialism in Collective Security Agreements
Mises Daily: Monday, November 03, 2014 by Patrick Barron
The economic phenomenon known as the “tragedy of the commons” instructs us that commonly-held resources that are insufficiently protected will be plundered to extinction. The phenomenon was recognized in the early nineteenth century to explain why the commons in England quickly came to be denuded by sheep. All sheepherders had an equal right to graze sheep on the commons. There often was no agreement as to how many sheep each could graze, so it was sheer rational self-interest for each to graze as many sheep on the common ground as possible. In short order the commons came to be overgrazed. What later came to be called “the tragedy of the commons” was a simple and imminently understandable explanation.
Is Security an Economic Resource?
One can easily accept that grassland is an economic resource that must be protected, but what about security, and if security is held collectively, can collective security agreements also be vulnerable to the tragedy of the commons? Security is a service that usually requires economic resources. We secure our physical bodies and our personal possessions when we take precautions such as padlocking our bicycles, locking our car doors and the house, buying monitored security systems, purchasing heavy safes, carrying concealed weapons, taking self-defense courses, and the like. All these things require the expenditure of time and money to acquire economic goods to make us more secure. On a more subtle level, we modify our behavior to avoid giving offense to complete strangers about whom we know nothing. We especially do not deliberately seek confrontations over minor things like the last parking spot in the lot.
Moral Hazard and Socialism
All this changes under collective security agreements. Now each member’s taxpayers must expend resources to provide security for all other member states, which naturally means sacrificing the satisfaction of other preferences. There will be a reluctance to spend resources on security that may be claimed by others in a foreign country. Furthermore, the very fact that one belongs to a collective security alliance encourages risk taking among those who know they will not bear the full cost of any conflict their behavior may precipitate. The latter phenomenon, the increased willingness to call upon alliance members, is moral hazard at work, and the former phenomenon, the reluctance of taxpayers to expend resources that may be claimed by others, is a well-known consequence of socialism.
Mises explained that socialism discourages production while it increases demand. Why produce only to be forced to share with others when those same others produce nothing of value in return?
The Tragedy of NATO
Today we see the above destructive economic forces at work in NATO expansion. When the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1990, the reason for NATO’s existence vanished. But rather than declare NATO to have been a success in deterring war in Europe, possibly disbanding the alliance and building a new Concert of Europe that would include Russia, NATO bureaucrats set about to expand the alliance to the east, absorbing ten former members of the Warsaw Pact and two nations, Slovenia and Croatia, that were formerly part of communist Yugoslavia.
The dynamic for further NATO expansion continues unabated in the addition of Ukraine and Finland. President Poroshenko of Ukraine is lobbying for membership in both the European Union and NATO, to take advantage of the financial benefits (for Ukraine) of collective security. If NATO did admit Ukraine, one wonders if Ukraine would invoke the collective security clause and demand that NATO go to war with Russia for the return of Crimea (or some other Russia-related conflict). Most of the cost of such a conflict would be borne by taxpayers outside of Ukraine. Except for the few richest member states, NATO members, especially the newest members, would add little of military significance. (Recently, even NATO stalwart Germany admitted that its military could not meet its NATO commitments. Therefore, one member, the United States (i.e., the American taxpayer), is shouldering the lion’s share of the alliance’s security cost).
Meanwhile, Finland is already a member of the EU and now is openly lobbying for NATO membership. In a recent interview with Der Spiegel, Finnish President Alexander Stubb was amazingly dismissive of Russia’s stated concerns about Finland joining NATO. His interview has to be read to be believed.
Both presidents’ behavior illustrate the effects of the moral hazard inherent in collective security agreements like NATO. And neither country would contribute much more than a token contribution to the security of current NATO members but would, instead, be military and financial liabilities.
Conclusion
NATO is an example of the inherent problems with collective security alliances — we find a tragedy of the commons fed by socialism and moral hazard. The socialist phenomenon is illustrated by the increased security demanded by new members and the desire for decreased security resources provided among the taxpaying public of current members. It has succumbed to the moral hazard phenomenon by increasing the risk of war by adding new members whose territories could be used to house American nuclear weapons, viewed by Russia as a direct threat to its national security.
George Washington’s farewell address has never sounded more prescient: beware foreign entanglements.
Exactly as I would have put it. NATO should have morphed into something quite different than what it has become or just gone away. Instead it has become a perceived threat to Russia militarizing areas that I’m pretty sure Gorbachev thought would be neutral. A dumb idea by those eternal cold warriors who have no sense of either history or Russian culture.
Tariffs and US war history. Along with the follies and crimes of “cronyism”.
http://mises.org/daily/6947/American-Tariffs-and-Wars-From-the-Revolution-to-the-Depression
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/03/irs-limits-profits-marijuana-businesses/18165033/
They should expand their business into the black market.
Interesting………..very interesting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11206596/Dollar-smashes-through-resistance-as-mega-rally-gathers-pace.html
Anita………… have you taken your gold profits yet??
Nope…saw this article too, and it put me in worse stress than I was in to begin with. I need 1325 or better to break even…yyyyyeah…that was a year ago, give or take a few random days to make a big decision. The next 18 months are huge for me as I plan to make a move..luckily property values are on the rise here at home but my lake property is still way down. What does your crystal ball reveal….especially given the info in this article?
I’m way down on silver too. .. not so heavily invested there..but still, it doesn’t look good there either.
The silver thing may take a while. The Bunker-Hunts ran the market to $ 40 and it did not hit that again for 30 years. Not planning to make any profit on what I have, just squirreling it away in case. Probably should have dumped the 40 oz I have in silver dust (long story) and converted it to common date walking liberty half dollars. Each grandchild (we are up to five) has been getting a US $20 double eagle (old dates) at their baptism. The three born this year are all getting 1914 coins, a common date. So far, they are all losing money but I’m pretty sure they will always work as “getting out of town” money!.
Excellent idea!
Stay with coins…..collectors like coins.
You are looking at some interesting market manipulation. I still think that the whole damn thing will collapse one of these days. Though, it won’t happen until all the big boys have safely tucked away what they need to survive and prosper. Wonder how we could figure that one out and monitor it?
Yes indeed. China, the Euro, Japan and the US all play games with their currency. Looks like Japan has the lead.
TOKYO — Japan is opting for another round of shock treatment, in a stark admission that the country’s economic revival plan is faltering.
After insisting for more than a year that its aggressive monetary action was sufficient, the Bank of Japan on Friday unexpectedly announced that it would buy larger quantities of government debt. By injecting more money into the economy, the central bank is trying keep borrowing costs low, encourage spending and, ultimately, stoke inflation and growth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/business/international/japans-central-bank-unexpectedly-moves-to-stimulate-economy.html?_r=0
How about a little “stupid fear mongering stupidity”?? Did I happen to say it is also stupid?
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120102/republican-senate-2014-could-stall-supreme-court-vacancies