Marko Rubio

I see a lot of good and bad with Rubio.  Overall it’s good, but just barely better than Bush or Trump.  I think the attraction  we have for him may be his electability.  He is suitable to to the Repug base and would attract some minority voters.  So it comes down to, not would he be a good POTUS, but could he beat the Democrat’s?

On the issue of Homeland Security funding, yes the Repug’s are playing political games.  So are the Democrats.  They will not allow a vote in the senate.  Both are guilty and our commander in chief is the worst.  But I for one don’t think it is that urgent.  Homeland did not protect Boston.  To me it is a largely ineffective bureaucracy.  I see stories on Homeland Security arresting sex offenders and NFL copyright offenders and wonder how terroristic those crimes were?  My belief is local police and citizens provide the most security.  It would help if the border patrol were allowed to do their jobs.


  1. “On the issue of Homeland Security funding, yes the Repug’s are playing political games. So are the Democrats. They will not allow a vote in the senate.”

    False equivalency!

    The Dems are not allowing a vote on a bill that is destined to fail given (1) lack of support in Congress and (2) Obama’s promise to veto.

    • The shutdown claim has little validity as well. The only ones that stay home are the nonessential’s as in secretaries and cleaning crews. The mission will continue.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I thought you “progressives” were all about “majorities” getting their way!

      A threat of veto is no reason to not pass legislation. Many have threatened and then backed away.

      The only reason Mr. Obama is willing to even threaten veto is the medias complicity in blaming the R’s for gridlock, no matter who causes it.

      • Come on JAC, you know as well as I know as well as the GOP knows…this is a nonstarter.

        But in theory, fine, let’s all sit back, rush to a vote then a veto….then what???

        • Just A Citizen says:

          But in your view it is the Republicans who are wrong. Not the POTUS, even after TWO houses of Congress pass the legislation.

          As for the then what………… pass an even more restrictive version and send that to him.

          You know, the Dems put this kind of language in appropriation bills all the time when Bush was POTUS. The howling was then against Bush if he threatened to veto the bill to take out the language. But then he never really did, because it would have been HIS FAULT if the spending stopped.

          • If one looks at the results of the elections and on the platforms that catapulted the Senate into a Republican majority, the people have spoken and amnesty is dead. The problem is that the left can’t accept that their policies are not wanted by the majority, now they make shit up, claiming those who are now the majority, by voice of the people, still don’t matter. If those voices DID matter, this would be a non discussion. I’m still waiting for those who think their votes count to stand up of the issues they voted for and tell the Left “you lost, now sit down and shut up” as they did to the Right in 2008. The problem I’m seeing with the Right is they don’t have any balls to slap back hard when they can. It’s hard to support pussies, but harder to support hypocrits. So I support neither.

          • “pass an even more restrictive version and send that to him”

            And then what? Not sure how the failure to fund in this scenario can be deemed Obama’s fault in the slightest.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              If Congress passes funding and Obama vetoes the funding who’s fault is it that funding is not passed??

              • If Congress passes a funding bill that in part strips funding for Obama’s initiative which he has stated is a non-started and Obama vetoes the funding bill because of that very issue, who’s fault is it?

                If Congress then passes another funding bill that is even more restrictive (you know, to piss of Obama), and Obama then vetoes that funding bill, who’s fault is it now?

                If Congress then passes yet another funding bill that is even more restrictive (you know, to piss of Obama), and Obama then vetoes that funding bill, who’s fault is it now?

              • The Republicans took out what the People wanted them to take out. The Pres, a petulant child who refuses to be told no more, decides that if he cannot have it all, no one can have anything. A hell of a way to run a country.

              • I believe many polls show a majority support for Obama’s action…

                I just don’t see how, if there is a shutdown, this can (or should) all be laid at Obama’s feet.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              It is HIS fault……..he vetoed the spending bill.

              • Buck – do you not believe in the whole 3 branches of government thing? If you do, how can two parts pass something and one veto it, yet the one to veto it isn’t to blame?

              • Yes, in the simple sense of Obama entered the veto, so it is his fault…Sure. But no, it is not his fault that DHS is shutdown. It is more complex than you are trying to make it out to be. Sorry.

              • Enlighten me. Why is it more complex?

              • Kathy – our system does not operate purely by congress passes law, law enacted. There is a 3rd party involved and it is not his job to serve as a rubber stamp.

                The GOP is posturing once again to take a routine funding bill hostage to get whst they want. It’s already been declared DOA. Honestly it doesn’t matter – I have a feeling they’ll back down on this one pretty quickly.

              • Buck, you have it Bass Ackwards. The job of the legislature is to control the Executive and the automatic executive drift towards authoritarianism. The Courts too are supposed to serve the purpose of restraining both the Executive and the legislative.

                In the original system the President broadly serves the role as “Chief Executive” whose job it is to implement laws passed by the legislature not interpret or redefine them. So, the Pres does unfortunately have a lot of latitude on Obamacare. He does not on immigration.

              • So do you not believe the Pres should have any veto power?

                And do you believe the Pres has absolutely NO authority when it comes to immigration?

              • He can veto whatever the hell he wants but then HE has to live with it. Here is a case where the L’Enfant terrible does not want to abide by immigration law and is willing to throw the country into chaos to get his way. Nothing unusual there as long as he has the media providing top cover for him.

                Ya know when people talk about “bias” in the news, this is the perfect example. Must have heard 30 or 40 news reports on this in the past week. Nobody, not even Fox is willing to admit that 90plus percent of Homeland Security is funded by the bill. Only immigration “reform” is stopped. Never guess that from the reporting would you? The reports make it sort of sound like McConnell and Boehner are inviting Al Queda across the border. Asswipes, been dealing with these dishonest mental dwarfs since the days of Barry Goldwater.

                We are talking about a lot more than discretion here. We are talking re-writing at best, malfeasance at worst.

                Do you not see where these things lead? Does not take a rocket scientist.

    • “False equivalency!” What a hurtful thing to say. And after I started by pointing out the Repug’s started this round of bulldookey. Why are the Dem senators protecting Obama? If he veto’s, the Repug’s do not have the votes to override. And isn’t this a moot point to fight over since a federal judge has ruled Obama’s actions are illegal, just as Obama said they would be before he decided to ignore the limits on his executive powers?

      I see it as being very equal, the Repug’s are playing partisan politics as an exact counter to Obama’s actions. Hope they continue and shut down the whole government again! De fund the IRS until they release all the hidden communication. Same with DOJ/Fast & Furious. State Dept/Benghazi.

      • “If he veto’s, the Repug’s do not have the votes to override.”

        In theory, I agree — but again…then what?

        “And isn’t this a moot point to fight over since a federal judge has ruled Obama’s actions are illegal”

        A federal judge has ruled no such thing…

        “De fund the IRS until they release all the hidden communication. Same with DOJ/Fast & Furious. State Dept/Benghaz”

        Ah yes, because no criticism of Obama would be complete without BENGHAZI!!!

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I see the DNC has succeeded in turning the word Benghazi into a “dog whistle” for the left.

          Come on Buck. The executive branch needs to come COMPLETELY clean on the whole Benghazi fiasco. The last committee report claiming no problems was grossly inadequate in its investigation. Let the chips fall where they may, but just stop redacting thousands of pages for no real reason. Stop interfering in individual testimony.

          Same goes for the IRS investigations.

          The latter I would solve more quickly if a leader of Congress. Get the House and the R’s in the Senate to prepare a bill eliminating the IRS and moving to a national sales tax.

          As for the DHS funding, attach a rider to a funding bill, thus opening up the reconciliation process that would REMOVE the INS from the Dept of Homeland Security. Then go forward and pass DHS funding bills.

          • LOI – the judge put a stop to implementation pending decision on the constitutional question. The judge did not rule on the constitutionality.

  2. A recent post on another site that I penned:

    I have been saying for years that voting is useless and is simply an illusion of choice. This article and many comments support that theory. Let’s explore that theory. In 2008, Obama won the presidency and the democrats won a super majority in Congress. The people spoke and the Republicans were told “you lost, so sit down and shut up”. Basically the ‘Left” winners told the “right” losers that their vote don’t matter now, because they lost. This is the typical “we are a democracy” mentality, although it fails the reality test.

    So now, after a few more elections, the voters have spoken and the “right” now has the majority in Congress, including having the majority in the “Peoples House” since 2010. Still, the mentality shows that votes don’t matter and their voices have no bearing on governmental thinking. If voting mattered, amnesty would be dead and Obamacare would be buried right next to it. But, as is true that voting is simply an “illusion” of having a voice and a choice, we the people are ALL ignored by the elite ruling class. The Courts will ultimately decide the fate of Obamacare and amnesty, NOT the voice of the people.

    You may now return to your normal brainwashed thinking and continue to believe you have a voice in the Federal Government.

    • Note: This was on an article about amnesty and shutting down the DHS. Shutting down the DHS, should be a permanent decision. Just more unneeded government that cost’s a fortune.

      • DO NOT fall into their trap. Neither you nor I want to defund the Coast Guard. The bill merely cuts out immigration “reform”. “They” would have you believe otherwise.

        • If the DHS somehow finds it’s way to be “shutdown” it will only effect nonessential personnel. The main parts of the business will go on as usual. Just like the last “government” shutdown, it didn’t shutdown anything of importance.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Typical flawed logic by the “voting doesn’t count” crowd.

      What the actual conclusion should be, given the author’s arguments and complaints is “Assuming a simple majority will change things is naïve”. Voting can only make a difference to those who do what is necessary to elect people who are like minded and in large enough numbers to gain 60 seats in the Senate, a majority in the House and a POTUS in the White House.

      So the real complaint is that YOU can’t get your way via voting because not enough people agree with YOU.

      The other thing ignored in all of this is that if the Cynic wins then we should just all TAKE IT and SHUT UP. Because there is NO OTHER way to affect change short of killing your neighbors who do not agree with YOU.

      • You cannot accept your own hypocrisy. Your lying to yourself JAC. Let’s go back to the bailout of ’08-’09 With 90% of the people against it, it still passed. YOU HAVE NO VOICE in the Federal government, PERIOD. Even Buck agrees with me, although inadvertently.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Hypocrisy?? I suggest you look up the word because you certainly misused it here.

          Your example simply supports my arguments and assertions.

          Now lets deal with your example in another light. Over 60% of the people supported invading Iraq. Now what if the elected leaders had taken the time to investigate more and decided NO?? Would you be howling about how the majority was ignored?

          And to the meltdown. Most of us were against TARP. But those we elected had to act quickly based on what they were told. How do you know that failing to act would not have resulted in a complete meltdown, as was being predicted???

          G, you build these faulty arguments that go round and round, ignoring the reality we live in. So one person can not change the Federal Govt., but in your mind this somehow means that 200 million cannot change it either. Because all 200 million are after all, just “individual votes”.

          For the record, I do personally have a voice in our Federal Govt. Because I remain engaged. That does not mean I will prevail but I certainly do have a voice that is heard. Of course, I also worked for them which gave me a voice as well. And guess what? I was able to get some things changed while working for the Feds.

          Do ya think maybe there is a lesson there??

          • Do ya think maybe there is a lesson there??

            Yes, you cannot see that things have changed over time because your brainwashed into believing you have a voice in the Federal government. Keep dreaming, while your watching our Feds turn into a Fascist entity, one that will not end well.

          • Now lets deal with your example in another light. Over 60% of the people supported invading Iraq. Now what if the elected leaders had taken the time to investigate more and decided NO?? Would you be howling about how the majority was ignored?

            Simple solution is that for a national election, it takes a 3/4 majority. That would have kept us out of a lot of problems that we now deal with today.

            And to the meltdown. Most of us were against TARP. But those we elected had to act quickly based on what they were told. How do you know that failing to act would not have resulted in a complete meltdown, as was being predicted???

            NO, they didn’t have to act. If we are to have a free market, then the government should stay out of it, instead you support Fascism. So when will you be pointing your hand up and saying “Heil Obama”? Or Bush, or the next king?

          • One thing I think you miss in this discussion G-you talk about how the people don’t have control-you use polls, I assume to determine what the people want-but those polls count all the people whether they vote or not-so big deal if the majority of people are against Obamacare-if that majority of people don’t vote.

            • No Ma’am, I see a huge butt whipping that the Democrats took in the last election. If those voices mattered, then amnesty and Obamacare would be laid to rest because that’s what the voters have said by electing the people they did. Yet, it don’t seem to matter as the amnesty issue and Obamacare will be decided in the Courts, by people in black robes, NOT the voters. The republicans are now writing a REPLACEMENT law for Obamacare. Regardless, JAC is right, we are now a fascist country. Votes don’t matter.

        • Umm…no I don’t.

          • Sure you do. You have all but admitted that the last election means nothing and Obama can still do what he wants. The people spoke, and nobody in DC gives a shit. You have also ignored the results of the vote and what it means. Yes Sir, you do agree with me, voting doesn’t matter in DC.

      • JAC, since voting is useless and is ignored anyway, why not have National elections on subjects such as amnesty and Obamacare? If the people vote FOR the issues, then they PAY for it. Then, voting will have legitimacy.

        • To clarify, those who vote for amnesty/Obamacare would pay for it through taxation, those who vote against it would be exempt.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            I support the concept of “user fees/taxes” but this is not the means to get it. I think such a process would tear at the fabric of “community” because it is contrary to long established ethical principles regarding governance.

            The problem is the expanded power/authority of the Fed Govt. There is only two ways to reduce it. By voting or by shooting people. Please note that the supposed third way, that is just letting it collapse, will also result in shooting people. These would by your neighbors, however, instead of targeted political elites.

            So if you think about it a little, armed REVOLT may be more “moral” than letting the Govt collapse. At least a revolt is aimed at the offending parties and not a bunch of innocent people who suddenly find themselves starving to death.

            • Utter nonsense! If the Federal government would collapse not one thing would change to the point of shooting people. That’s is such bullshit. We would still have law and order and food would continue to hit the shelves. The Fed’s existence or non existence would not change squat, unless one works for them. We would still have State and local government’s. Life would go on without a hitch. People would be better off because they could keep their money instead of giving it to a bunch of thieves.

              • Just A Citizen says:


                The Federal Govt was not in danger of collapsing in 2007-2008. It was our banking and financial system.

                When this happened last time we were a much more “civil” and agrarian nation. Today we are far more dependent on daily services provided in “urban” settings, which all depend on banking/finance. And we are far less agrarian.

                So yes, a financial collapse would probably end up with you shooting people over food.

                This notion you have of all will be OK is based on your living in the country. Yes, some of us would go on just fine. That is until the 4 million starving people living only 5 hours away figured out my town is doing just fine.

              • JAC, you are just repeating what the propagandist’s said about the so called “banking collapse”. It should have been let to collapse, because they would have been replaced with a smarter group of banks. NOW, we have 100 times the problems and when this next bubble blows up, it will be 10000 times worse. They won’t be taking a government bailout, they’ll take the money that the people have now “loaned ” to them.

                The notion that there would be starving people because of a few idiot bank failures is nonsense with no basis of fact. Just more propaganda the sheople keep falling for.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          Do you realize that the Socialists and Progressives have been pushing for National Referendums since the 1800’s??

          Now why do you think they would want that? Do you think maybe your plan could backfire in any way??

          Hello Nationalized Healthcare and Cradle to Grave Welfare.

          • That’s also bullshit! Even Liberal California voted against gay marriage, remember? The Progressives are a serious minority and their being eaten by their own daily. Please, let’s get real here.

      • Voting doesn’t count. It is an empty act pretending to accomplish a specific task that it simply does not fulfil.

        You pretend it is effect in such a task.
        You are delusional.

  3. Once again, people are safe thanks to an armed law abiding citizen.

    No doubt in order to help their own self serving cause Gun Controllers will add this encounter to a gun related death statistic in the future, but what do you expect from bottom feeders who only come out when they can bathe in the blood of children yet ignore a hero like Dan Radcliff?


    • Just A Citizen says:

      At the same time we will never know if he had just handed over the money/drugs if the thief would have just run out the door, into the arms of the waiting cops.

      I do not oppose the pharmacist being armed. I am pointing out the flaws in this guys arguments. Those flaws identified in the arguments of the “gun control” crowd cut both ways. Everyone inserts speculation into their argument and then try to sell it as some kind of fact.

      • The gun grabbers won’t touch this story with a hundred foot pole. I would bet 99.9% of them will ever even know about it. Good shooting by the guy though 😀

  4. Just A Citizen says:

    👿 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 👿

    Notice how the MSN writer is attributing this benevolent action to Mr. Obama directly. This was the propaganda ploy used by Wilson, Mussolini and Hitler. All things good come from “Dear Leader”.

    This was NOT Mr. Obama’s initiative. This idea has been floating around the Fed agencies since before Bush. Along with many other ideas, some good and many crazy. Long term planning identified a concern of reduced use of Federal lands by an ever increasing urban and tech dependent population, in the late 90’s. Along with growing demand for water and motorized recreation opportunities.

    Which happen to be in contradiction with the GREENIES desires. So we get agencies pushing kids to get out to the woods, while closing more roads and trails to the old timers who pay for the “govt. employees” who manage these lands.

    Sorry, got off the topic for a second. What happened to the days when the headline read “Secretary so and so announced a new initiative today which will………..”. or “The Dept of XYZ announced a new plan in hopes of getting young children to visit the National Parks”.

    • NOW you have a problem with propaganda? A little late my friend. You’ve been accepting the same propaganda for years, you only complain when you don’t agree with it. Yes, I understand what Hypocrisy means, now maybe you do too 😀

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Placing a smiling face at the end of a STUPID comment does not make it any less STUPID.

        • If that’s all you can say, well maybe the smiley face is a nice way to say your busted! 😀 Here’s a bigger one! :d 😀 😀 😀

          • Just A Citizen says:

            PROVE where I have been accepting propaganda for years!

            PROVE that I only complain about propaganda when it does not suit me!

            Absent PROOF that I do not live or follow the guidelines I espouse your accusations of hypocrisy are nothing but the ranting of a fool. Unless of course you are simply employing the usual left wing method of screaming names at people when they don’t agree with you.

            Go ahead and provide PROOF that a financial collapse would not have happened if the Fed and Govt had not acted to stabilize the banks in 08 and 09. Keeping in mind of course just how bad things got “with” the intervention. Keeping in mind of course, just how high Gold and Silver got, along with stocks in companies selling PREPPER crap, and Blogs predicting the end of times and “death of the dollar”.

            • Go ahead and provide PROOF that a financial collapse would not have happened if the Fed and Govt had not acted to stabilize the banks in 08 and 09

              What a stupid question to ask when there is no answer that can be proven because the action did not occur. Let’s go below about the ACA, your comment: The ACA was an IMMORAL and UNETHICAL law in a Nation where “Individual Freedom” and “Liberty” are supposed to be founding principles.

              The claims of its benefits violate the BASIC LAWS OF ECONOMICS.

              So as long as you agree with the propaganda, it’s OK, like the propagandist’s claiming a complete financial breakdown. Yet the bailout, at the expense of some future generation is ethical, when one government action is equally anti-liberty is OK. That is hypocrisy JAC. You pick and choose your propaganda, depending on your mood that day and go from there. You know we have a Fascist system and your OK when it suits you and against it when it cost’s you money. You are the one that started the name calling, I did not call anything you said as being stupid. Maybe you should check recheck your position, it’s going from Left to right so often it’s nothing but contradiction.

              • Just A Citizen says:

                You: “What a stupid question to ask when there is no answer that can be proven because the action did not occur.”

                Yet you claimed the argument was nothing but propaganda and expressed your certainty that a serious meltdown would not have occurred if the banks were left to fail.

                Your arguments today mirror those of BF. Just spewing the same tired rhetoric no matter what the other person is actually saying. You need to go back and read my comments in their full content and context.

                Accusing me of hypocrisy is nothing but bull shit and STUPID. Clean up your thinking but mostly your arguments.

              • AWE, Come on now, we all have our moments when we are hypocritical. I’m guilty as well at times. I’ve learned to just accept my faults because I’m just human. You and I both tend to lean towards the right side of the political spectrum and all of it’s propaganda. We both can see through the Lefty propaganda, quite clearly. Your not stupid and I’m disappointed you have taken the left wing mentality of name calling, shame on you. I don’t think your stupid, but your not perfect either, and like myself, you pick and chose your propaganda to believe or disbelieve. Sometimes, doing that can expose hypocrisy, I know because I have done the same thing. I usually catch myself, sometimes I’m not so lucky. As a rule, when you accept government involvement in one area, all areas are now open, hence, my opinion of the bailout versus Ocare. If it’s government involvement, then it’s government involvement, to claim one is good and one is bad is…….you get my drift. Can’t have it both ways my friend! 🙂 PEACE 😀

  5. Notice the numbers and how they have changed upward across the board. This should make some people happy, but, this is one of those issues where a 3/4 national vote should be required.

    Now, in the event that this country is under full attack, I don’t think we need an election, we already have a law for that in place.

    In this case, if one votes for military action, those who vote yes and are under the age of 45 and healthy get to put on a uniform and lead the way. Anyone older than 45 can chose to care for the children or volunteer to go, if healthy. It’s easy for people to say let’s go to war when it’s not their ass on the line. Let’s change the rules a little. For the record, this includes women.

  6. Unbelievable is all that comes to mind when reading that three senior Democrats are “pleading” with Obama to once again unilaterally “bend the rules” on Obamacare so their voter base and millions of other Americans will not be hit with “Obamacare tax penalites.”

    Reps. Sander Levin (D-MI), Jim McDermott (D-WA), and Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) have approached Obama with a strong request for a special enrollment period for “the uninsured who will all be hit with a $325 fine or two percent of their income (whichever is higher) for failure to enroll in 2015.” Next year, in 2016, that amount will soar to $1,100 on average.

    In a statement issued by the “three musketeers,” they contended, “Open enrollment ended before many Americans filed their taxes. Without a special enrollment, many people (who will be paying fines) will not have another opportunity to get health coverage this year.”


    Tough shit! You passed the law now deal with your fascist garbage.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Unless the ACA itself contains specific language regarding the “deadlines” they are at the discretion of the Executive branch.

      Waiving the deadline could be a violation of the Admin. Procedures Act if the Administration is arbitrarily violating its own “procedural rules”.

      • I don’t recall when reading the law that it can simply be changed by ONE person. That’s not what a Constitutional Republic is, what you exclaim is that we are now a fascist dictatorship, with revolving dictators. Nice. Not exactly what I would vote for.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          The President, or Secretary, would not be changing the LAW if the law does not specify the deadlines or the law provides for “flexibility” exercised by the Secretary.

          You have to read the actual law to find the answer. Simply throwing out accusations is premature.

  7. Just A Citizen says:

    The ACA implementation is once again giving the R’s a lesson in why you can’t win the larger debate by trying to focus on details of legislation/issues that are corrupt at the core.

    Look at all the silly accusations and claims made about what “Obama Care” would do to businesses, employment, and how enrollment would fail, etc., etc., etc…

    This leads to headlines by the left that 13 million enrolled, PROVES the critics were wrong. Thus embedding the notion that ACA is “right” in the peoples thinking.

    Another one this week was that Businesses are not losing money due to the ACA. Meaning “ANOTHER REPUBLICAN LIE”. Which leads to “IT WAS ALL ABOUT OBAMA’S RACE”.

    When will the R’s realize that when you fling poo at the details, the other side only has to change the conditions of the details and the R’s look like jack snipes for throwing poo because they are stupid apes.

    The ACA was an IMMORAL and UNETHICAL law in a Nation where “Individual Freedom” and “Liberty” are supposed to be founding principles.

    The claims of its benefits violate the BASIC LAWS OF ECONOMICS. Namely, you cannot increase demand, hold supply constant and expect prices to drop.

    Those are the ONLY TWO points that needed to be made. And nothing the Dems do to manipulate or fine tune the ACA will ever change the truth of these two arguments.

  8. Just A Citizen says:



    Mine is that ethics can be tested when other issues create stress. Such as an overload of BS procedures. So those in charge take short cuts that make sense, but in doing so violate an “ethical” standard. The beginning of the slippery slope.

    This is different than simply having a bunch of corrupt and unethical people in charge.

    • Yes sir…but you only scratched the surface. I am behind the proverbial eight ball today but will not ignore your request……..however, as it stands today, when you have civilians in control, you are creating this unethical standard. But, I will respond because this is something that I can lay at the feet of Obama. Give me some time and I will be able to respond.

      Hint……take a hard look at the replacement of the last NINE generals and the reasons why.

    • An interesting conundrum. Nothing particularly new here. Been sending ex-Generals and Admirals to corporate board rooms for the past 70 years at least. Back to the Civil War you had profiteering and my uncle, a Warrant Officer, got caught up in the cover-up of a Colonels’ screw-up during Korea. Colonel was a ring knocker. Got his in the end thanks to a shrewd short timer in the JAG office who represented my uncle.

      Didn’t they dog Reno out of the Army instead of admitting Custer screwed up?

      Personally, I think the post-Vietnam era was a golden age. For a short time the people who loved the military more than their careers happened to accidentally get to be in charge. Great book on the subject now out of date since we reverted to the “norm” after Desert Storm

  9. Just A Citizen says:


    An amendment to your write up on Scott Walker. I happen to think his comments about “strategy” are sound. There might be better ones but his are good. It shows the difference between Governors and the KStreet and Potomac Fever crowds.

  10. Just A Citizen says:


    Mr. Obama was the one who started the “posturing” with his proclamation to change immigration rules. He was unwilling to see if the new Congress would work with him on reform as they said they would. Instead he chose to puff up his chest and act like a King.

    So YES, the whole funding debacle over DHS is Mr. Obama’s fault.

    You claim that POTUS is not supposed to be a rubber stamp, but you seem to believe Congress is a rubber stamp for the KING. If the KING declares he dislike then the Congress, who represents the people of their States, are supposed to just do what he wants.

    It that not exactly the same thing?

    • That’s not at all what I said. Neither is a rubber stamp for the other. As I’ve said, it is more complex than merely laying all blame at Obama’s feet.

      And your description of events surrounding immigration is a bit more simplistic than what actually transpired.

  11. Re: the immigration debate:

    First, our immigration system is not broken. It has not been enforced and as a result it is currently overrun due to years of neglect. Both parties are responsible for this.

    Obama telegraphed his intentions well before the election so the people were informed. They spoke loudly and clearly against his anticipated dictatorial immigration actions. The people have been very consistent on this subject over the years. They got burned in the ‘80s with the last amnesty and the promise to secure the border. The people have consistently insisted the border be secured before any other action is taken on the illegal immigrants that are here. Hence Obama owns any and all blame for defunding of DHS should it happen.

    And the border can be secured as demonstrated by our own D13’s recent post. The Texas solution is working, it is lowering crime and illegal immigration all at an affordable cost. Janet Napolitano’s claim that the border cannot be secured is thus proven wrong.

    The people know and understand that the Democrat’s push for legalization is simply a ploy to buy voters for the next 50 years. They of course shed tears over the plight of the poor immigrant who just came here for a better life or over the kids who were dragged here by their parents. But the reality is that this is a strong-arm push for one party rule for the next 50 years. They have already stated that those that are given green cards can apply for an emergency visit out of the country and then return through normal channels erasing all negatives on their record thus being eligible for citizenship.

    One argument is that the immigrants improve our economy. I and others on here have documented the costs to our economy of illegal immigration. I have not see figures supporting the exceptional gains that supposedly result from unfettered immigration. If unfettered immigration was all that profitable, then California should have the lowest taxes in the country, a surplus in the treasury, and businesses booming. Instead we are the butt of jokes from every corner of the country and businesses are fleeing the state. Unfettered immigration does not work in a welfare economy. Unfettered immigration worked in the 1800’s when it was difficult to get here, there were vast unsettled parts of the country and there was no welfare system to support those that did not work.

    The people have also been very clear that they are not against immigration, just illegal immigration. Do we need immigration reform? Yes. One the fulfills the needs in this country for labor, one that ensures all immigrants come here legally and are not a burden on our welfare system.

    As for the argument that the issues are complex and cannot be easily solved, that is total BS. Obama’s actions are clearly dictatorial and in violation of the Constitution. There is nothing nuanced about it. Just because Congress did not act does not give him the authority to unilaterally negate or change laws. In fact Congressional inaction is a legitimate response. In my view, Congress could not act because of Obama’s and the Democrat’s intransigence regarding securing the border first as the people desired. Calling the issue complex is a smoke screen. I don’t need to measure the height of each blade of grass in the yard to know the lawn needs mowed.

    It is time for all the politicians in DC to stand up for the Constitution, the rule of law, and the desires of the citizens as expressed at the ballot box.

    The Republicans have two options as I see it. They can allow the Democrats to filibuster the DHS funding bill as it stands, let it die and move on to other business. Thus DHS is defunded. They can change the filibuster rules, pass the legislation and let Obama veto if he has the guts. In either case, the blame should be on the Democrats. Again the DHS is defunded. After the defunding, they can come back and fund each individual entity in DHS with individual bills. So there will be bills for the Coast Guard, the FBI, border security, etc. But no bill or funds for INS until Obama rescinds his orders.

    Lest you think I am just down the on the Democrats, I am not. I am equally disgusted with the Rinos as well. First Congress should be speaking with one voice (all 535 individual voices) in telling the president to cease and desist with his unconstitutional actions. Both parties need to stop using this topic as a means of buying votes and dollars be they from future citizens or the Chamber of Commerce. Unfortunately I fear it is party first, government second and citizens last.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Well said my California friend. Well said indeed.

    • Great points T-Ray. It still comes down to the people being heard, they are not. We all know the immigration issue is about votes, not the immigrants. Take away welfare and they stay home. The courts will decide because the people’s voice don’t matter. The whole Federal government should be disbanded.

    • “First, our immigration system is not broken. It has not been enforced and as a result it is currently overrun due to years of neglect. Both parties are responsible for this.”

      It is fundamentally broken. It can be enforced, at great cost and increase in poverty upon the citizens. Few people break INTO jails…..

      “And the border can be secured as demonstrated by our own D13’s recent post. The Texas solution is working, it is lowering crime and illegal immigration all at an affordable cost. Janet Napolitano’s claim that the border cannot be secured is thus proven wrong.”

      Another false claim.
      All Texas did was increase the costs of immigration into Texas, which merely redirects the immigration to lower cost venues.

      If you increase the cost of ALL VENUES, Texas will see an vast increase in immigration again, but by people who are even more desperate. All this accomplishes is increasing the numbers of the very people you fear the most, and decrease the numbers of people who are more valuable. But your “problem” will not disappear.

      “One argument is that the immigrants improve our economy. I and others on here have documented the costs to our economy of illegal immigration. I have not see figures supporting the exceptional gains that supposedly result from unfettered immigration.”

      Then you merely demonstrate your intellectual dishonesty and blindness. The overwhelming evidence is exceptional. But because this contradicts your missive, you selectively ignore it.

      • I don’t think so. You cannot compare people coming here with educations to those without who immediately are eligible for the “gravy train” Don’t get me wrong, if there were no gravy train you would have a very valid point.

        • Certainly there are some that do seek the easy money. It is not the dominate situation however.

          The facts show that the massive numbers seek employment:

          “Immigrant labor-force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S., unless the “study” was undertaken by an anti-immigrant group. One study estimates that immigrants earn nearly $240 billion a year. Studies find that immigrant tax payments total $20 to $85 billion more than the amount of government services they use”

  12. Just A Citizen says:

    More proof there is a God;

    This is one way to make a difference. EXPOSE the asshats for what they are. I loved the guys response about eating bullies for lunch.

  13. That immigrants authored a massive surge of economic growth beginning in 1880 is exciting on its face, but it’s also very telling about the nature of poverty in the U.S.

    That 37 million immigrants reached these shores from 1880-1930 is a certain market signal that permanent poverty hasn’t been a problem in the United States since at least the late 19th century.

    Were the latter not true, as in if poverty had been insurmountable, then it would have also been true that the U.S. would not have been the lucky recipient of so many determined new arrivals.

    • Also valid but again, no gravy train then. Assimilation and education, two huge priorities then are not driving the “train” now. Today you have third generation Latin American immigrants in the cities who are functionally illiterate and cannot transition into the mainstream. For my family, that was always the goal and the sacrifices necessary were never denied.

      I do not know if there have even been any studies done but I think both World Wars played a big part in the successful assimilation of the differing cultures in this country. Not so much the language issue but the breaking down of barriers and suspicions between the diverse population. The ethnic “ghettos” which dotted our landscape seemed to be doomed after WW 2. I think large scale working class housing developments developments like Levittown would have been impossible before the war. As my old man would have said, it is pretty hard to hate the (Kike, Mick, Wop, Chink, Spic) who is sharing the foxhole with you!

  14. Looks like the back stabbing has begun. Sorry drag Queens you’ve just been black listed.

    • Starting to eat their own I guess. Like the news report last month from one of the traditionally female colleges who disqualified a female to male trannie from running for student government because he (formerly) she was now part of the “oppressor” class.

  15. Just A Citizen says:

    We are faced today with several issues which require serious………….SQUIRREL………

    • Anita needs to read this 😀

    • In all seriousness, have you ever read such hogwash? You and I are suddenly a threat to the big bad government, what a joke the fed’s have truly become.

      • Look, this is how the Nazi’s got started. Was watching “Judgement at Nuremberg” yesterday, great flick, brought up how in ’33 they started creating an “enemies” list then acted on it. So, now, in this government, we are where the Socialists, trade unionists and ultimately Jews were at that time. Always told my wife that in time, maybe not us but our children will be celebrating Mass in the catacombs or their equivalent.

        • Agreed and things are rapidly changing in the same direction of the NAZI’s. The spying, the list’s, the militarization of the police etc. There are many people who are very concerned about the world’s economy, including ours. We’re sitting on a really big bomb and it can explode at any time. When it blows, life will change for all of us.

        • SK, hearing about several NY State cities near the border of Pa wanting to succeed to Pa. Their reasons are Cuomo’s anti-fracking decisions, high property taxes, gun laws and lack of jobs. It’ll be interesting if this were to occur.

          • Legality is an issue. Almost seems that every decision made in NY State for the past 30-40 years has been aimed at weakening the upstate vote. The ant-fracking stuff more or less guarantees the continued out of state trickle of upstate folks.

            My own pet peeve has always been the Supremes imposing one man one vote on the State Senates. Always wondered how it could be legal fro the US Senate to have two senators per state but unconstitutional for a State (or City) to use the same system to guarantee a voice to the smaller but no less vital parts of a state. Fracking is a perfect example. There can be no rein on a governor when the bulk of the legislature is like thinking.

  16. When the Fed’s decide that you will eat what they say you will eat or pay serious taxes, then what?

    I can see this tied into Obamacare. Fat people beware, you are now a target.

  17. Cool Map of Live Marine Traffic.
    Notice the dearth of traffic not going to the West Coast of USA (due to strike)

  18. Minus 16 this morning, now this for tomorrow:






    At least it will be warmer! 🙂

  19. Buck, let us say that the next president is a right wing zealot or extreme libertarian. He decides on his own that Equal opportunity laws and voter rights laws are no longer needed. He issues an executive order/memo and decides they will not be enforced.

    OK with you that that particular ox is now being gored?

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Why is this report anything different than any other part of our society. Every speech by any politician is embedded by half truths or outright lies or sanitized such it will offend nobody. When a plagerist can be driven from a political campaign two decades ago and then be elected VP shows an overall change in ETHICS countrywide, worldwide you name it.

  20. Just A Citizen says:

    Thought oft he morning.

    The left is always going on about the need for “sustainable” stuff. Whether it be development or the economy in general, “we need sustainable x, y or z” is the mantra.

    This is combined with other goals to give us their desire for a centrally planned and controlled economy. More “infrastructure”, more subsidies for “sustainable energy” etc, etc, etc..

    The irony of this is that centrally planned and controlled economies ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE. Because Govt. interference eliminates the supply/demand and thus price relationships that can create actual levels of susatainability. Japan is a great example of the failure, along with those “socialized” Nordic and European economies that have been moving away from Keynes and towards the Austrian view. South Korea is now fully engaged in the fallacy. China is now suffering under its govt. sponsored and funded growth.

    Thus it is that once again the left is fighting for the very thing that undermines the thing they are demanding.

    This can be summed up in two catch phrases of old. You cannot fool mother nature, and you cannot have your cake and eat it to.

    • Good Day JAC, Greetings from the center of winter storm Pandora. 🙂 Not to bad so far several inches of snow but at least the temps are rising a bit, as it’s 19 at the moment.

      The Progressives don’t even realize that there desires are all rooted in the Communist/Socialist/Fascist mentalities. While much of the “change” they seek may seem good on it’s face, the fact that they demand it be done via government force destroys everything they think they are. I think SK asked a great question of Buck, because it is a possibility.

  21. We are due for 1 to 3 inches today but it started early and is coming down at the rate of an inch an hour. So, who knows. The change-over to rain tonight is cancelled.

    Listening to a local Doc on radio his morning, Dr. Ronald Hoffman. I suspect he is a secret climate change skeptic. Pointed out that the “new” food guidelines issued yesterday, de-emphasizing meat to save the planet also contained new information on cholesterol. Seems that for forty years or so they have been wrong on its relationship to longevity! Go ahead, eat the steak, and have some eggs with it!

    Now, Dr. Hoffman thinks that the original scare stories were based on…..”bad science”. He pointed out that the strongest argument back in the day was the comparison between Asian diets and ours. they lived longer and ate less meat. What he says the expert scientists failed to account for (a variable) was the more active, less sedentary lifestyle. A few other things too like less stress. Now that their lifestyles are more like ours, their disease rates are increasing.

    In arguments with the man made global warming crew, might be fun to bring up that scientists almost “universally” condemned cholesterol back then. If you defended beef, you were a “denier”.

    Eat More Steak!

    • I love steak and speed beef (venison). I have become immune to anything the idiots in government put out, screw them. I am also beginning to think that all the “solar cycles” that were claimed are also changing. The “scientist’s” understanding is far from complete, and likely never will be. Large cities will always be “warmer” than rural areas, for obvious reasons, it isn’t that foolish global warming crap. We have about 5 inches now, still snowing fairly hard, should see another 2 or so. Temps are not likely to get above 30, we shall see.

      Hope all is well in the SK family 🙂

    • Time to go watch “Sleeper” again. Never did buy into the cholesterol thing. The body makes 5/6 of the cholesterol in it so diety cholesterol is minimal. Funny how healthy food is better than man-made “health” food.

  22. If the econnuts hadn’t seized on “Man-made Global Warming” zealotry, I’m sure they would be screaming about “Man-made Global Cooling” right now.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      The same folks in ’77/’78 sure were loudly proclaiming the same cause and effect. Did you listen to the Academy of Sciences report the other week about how we must get active in eco engineering to save the planet.

    • It’s “Climate Change”, be it colder, warmer, wetter, drier, more windy, less windy does not matter. They win the debate by default.

      I assume there will be a retraction in 40 years. In the interim, I think I’ll throw some steak and eggs in the skillet.

      Science said 40 years ago, beyond a reasonable doubt that Cholesterol in eggs and meat would sure as shooting fast forward you into the grave. Lookie! Lookie! Perhaps MAN MADE made climate change will someday become an equal farce., Don’t expect any apologies though.
      Cholesterol in food not a concern, new report says |
      For more than a week, speculation has been running rampant. Here’s how it all started. On February 10, The Washington Post published a headline that got a…

    • Just A Citizen says:
      • If they fudge the numbers just right, February will simply not exist. The Greenie Weenies keep grasping at a straw that’s already been proved to be false. I wonder if this cult will go the way of the Jim Jones group? The world would likely be a better place.

      • Last year is considered one of the warmest in CA history. However, last summer was not particularly that hot as I ran the A/C fewer days than in many previous years. What was different was the that last winter and this winter have been unusually warm. I use wood as an auxiliary heat when the temperature drops below 35°F and sun does not shine. So far this winter we have only need the stove one week. Last year was similar as we used very little wood. With the warm winters has come the drought and lack of snow pack.

        I always like how the warmist argue that weather is not climate so your cold winters are not evidence that warming is not occurring but every severe storm, drought, and heat wave are.

        • The last 12-16 months have been what I would consider cooler than normal. The summer stunk, with very few actually hot days, This past December started a little warmer than usual, then MR. Freeze took over and we have set numerous records for cold. I remember similar winters back in the 70’s. Snowfall is mostly average. Ocean activity, sun activity and even lunar activity have everything to do with weather, Man made climate change is nothing less than a fraud. The warmist’s are like a new religious cult, completely devoid of common sense.

  23. Ya got snow in Rome, snow in Jerusalem, and it is the sixth warmest on record?

    Anybody with a modicum of common sense can see that what we are dealing with are ocean currents. If it is not that it is……

    • I think when they add February if they don’t fudge the numbers, it will far from the 6th warmest. It looks as we will head into March far below normal as well. I beginning to dislike winters as I get older, just not as fun as they were when we were kids. If I were younger, I would still be sled riding, used to love flying down hills on giant inter tubes. Big bon fires at the top and always some warming beverages 🙂

  24. I also don’t feel the love-I will state that one can find fault with the Country and still love America. But Obama doesn’t seem to like anything about America-he shows disdain for just about everything-the Constitution, Congress, his fellow democrats, freedom of the press, etc, etc, etc, . If anyone can, please note any action he’s taken that shows his love of this Country.

  25. Bush had his stupid smirk but the Big O’s reeks of “up yours”.

  26. Some fun things to chat about:
    Here are 35 huge lies the mainstream media repeatedly reported as “facts” that we now know to be total lies:

    1) Brian Williams: “The helicopter I was riding in got hit with an RPG.”

    2) President Obama: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

    3) Lance Armstrong: “I never doped.”

    4) The CDC: “There’s no evidence linking vaccines to autism.”

    5) The NSA: “We aren’t spying on the phone calls or emails of U.S. citizens.”

    6) The U.S. Navy: “No sailors were harmed by Fukushima radiation.”

    7) The mainstream media: “What Fukushima radiation?”

    8) The American Diabetes Association: “Diabetes cannot be reversed; only managed with expensive medication.”

    10) Government-run schools: “Common Core provides your child with a quality, historically-accurate education.”

    11) The FCC: “We don’t want to really control the internet. We just want to regulate it a little.”

    12) Big Pharma: “We don’t need to charge you exorbitant prices for drugs for our own profits; we only need the money to bring you amazing breakthroughs!” (REALITY: Most drug company R&D money comes from taxpayer dollars funneled through the NIH.)

    13) Every news station in America: “Unvaccinated children put vaccinated children at great risk because vaccines work so well they make vaccinated children immune… unless there are unvaccinated children around in which case the unvaccinated children cause the vaccinated children to revert to unvaccinated status which is bad. And that’s where measles comes from!”

    14) The U.S. Congress: “We can pay off the national debt by slightly reducing the acceleration of the growth of new debt being added to it.”

    15) The Federal Reserve: “Printing more fiat currency is good for the economy, and inflated stock market valuations prove it!” (Until one day they don’t, anyway…)

    16) The IRS: “We need your tax revenues to fund the government.” (But when banksters need another trillion-dollar bailout, they instantly create the money from nothing.)

    17) Monsanto: “Glyphosate is perfectly safe for human consumption and has zero negative impacts on the environment.”

    18) British Petroleum: “We completely cleaned up the Gulf of Mexico. What dolphins? We thought those were greasy sea otters…”

    19) The FDA: “The psychiatric drugging of children helps children become healthier.”

    20) The American Dental Association: “Mercury is awesome! Especially when we drill it into your mouth.”

    21) Vaccine manufacturers: “What mercury?”

    22) The USDA: “Every GMO crop the biotech industry comes up with is totally safe for open-field planting! No worries!”

    23) Every liberal media outlet: “Everything is so screwed up by big government that the only answer is BIGGER government!”

    24) Children’s hospitals: “We are kidnapping your children and forcing them to undergo chemotherapy because we know better than you do what’s good for them.”

    25) Your local TV news station: “Children’s vitamins are dangerous!”

    26) That same local TV news station: “But mercury in vaccines makes children healthier!”

    27) Your local city: “Dumping fluoride chemicals into the public water supply is just one of the many ways we selflessly serve the humanitarian needs of society.”

    28) All mainstream doctors over the last 20 years: “Eating cholesterol in foods causes heart disease.”

    29) Those same doctors: And because cholesterol is so horrible, statin drugs are awesome and help everyone!

    30) CNBC: “The rising stock market proves the economy is strong, and it has nothing to do with money printing by the Fed.”

    31) The White House: “The number of unemployed Americans is falling, just like we promised. See? These numbers prove it…”

    32) Mainstream media: “Illegal immigrants carry no disease into U.S. cities, but unvaccinated American children are filthy and dangerous.”

    33) Every mainstream media newspaper in America: “There is no CDC whistleblower named Dr. William Thompson, and he never confessed to taking part in the fraudulent alteration of data to bury any link between vaccines and autism.”

    34) NBC News: “When Brian Williams lies to the world, that’s okay. But when independent media organizations report the truth, they’re crazy!”

    35) Every “science” columnist carried by the mainstream media: “Aspartame is totally safe! In fact, it’s probably just as safe as vaccines! Maybe even as safe as eating glyphosate or GMOs.”

    Learn more:

  27. @D13, Enjoy your small taste of our wonderful weather! 🙂

  28. @Anita, Doing Ok up in your neck of the woods? Damn cold again this morning, that’s getting old. 🙂

    • NO! 12 below actual temp Friday night. Despite all my efforts for this not to happen, I dealt with a cracked water meter in my now closed business. UGH! Luckily I caught it pretty quickly but I still dealt with water and ice in my building for 7 hrs. On top of that, the water dept informed me I’d probably have to pay for this large, 2 inch pipe meter. Probably looking at close to a grand to replace it! Damn!

  29. Well, sir……I am grounded right now…have been out of town on vacation but…..grounded until wed/Thursday…….missing the wx in Texas but grounded in Nevada. Can’t even fly the southern route through Phoenix/el paso.

    • Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can make your unexpected stay in Nevada a pleasant one.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        Yesterday it was 65 degrees, shorts and T’s and sandals. Rain came in during the evening, steady downpour for an estimated 2 days. Looks like it will miss G, but hit New England with another snowfall to add to our gifts of the past weeks. Next few days, mid 40’s.

      • Oh, I don’t know…stuck in Las Vegas could be worse, I guess…..but looking out right now…..snow everywhere……in Vegas….snow. Amazing.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          Sky is clear and sun is shining. Suggest you fly north to wait out the storms. Let me know, I’ll make sure I have an extra steak for the BBQ.

          Most people do not know that it occasional snows in Las Vegas and it is cold in the winter most years.

          Mesquite on the other hand is usually much warmer.

  30. Dale A Albrecht says:

    I thought that the repugs were going to pick away at the ACA by bringing bills that would repeal very unpopular items, such as mandatory, tax fines, taxes on prosthetics, mandatory drug and alcohol rehab coverage, mandatory birth coverage and all that it entails. Items that they could get consensus on regardless of party and be able to override any Obama veto.

    But no, they’re rewriting the bill.

    • I haven’t read anything about what their putting in this bill-so I may hate it-but they have to do something-if the SC rules state subsidies a no no-the dems. will have a field day blaming republicans because poor people can’t get subsidies in mostly red states-then nationalizing health care will become front and center-so they need to be ready with something that will fix the mess left over by Obamacare.

  31. Just A Citizen says:

    This is a great example of the PRE-EMPTIVE strikes carried out by the DNC and left wing power brokers these days. When looking at candidates against these asshats consider which ones are best at anticipating and counter acting this kind of stuff.

    Oh and this is not a lone article. The left wing sites were full of this kind of attack on Walker last week. Combining it with is dodging the “evolution” question while in England. A dodge which I thought was completely appropriate and well handled.

    I also like Walker’s response to them trying to get him to bash Giuliani. Unlike so many other R’s who quickly condemned the remarks. If a presidential candidate does not have the spine to stand up to the badgering Press, how will they handle Iran, Israel and Russia???

  32. All Guiliani did was finally admit that the Emperor has no clothes on. He has done a useful public service. Somehow, after everything Obama has done, it is wrong to express an opinion of why he has done it?

    “Fundamentally Transform” was a dead giveaway for the non-lotus eaters.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Nothing sets the LEFT off like calling them out for their “un-American” or “anti-American” viewpoints. Notice we can’t even criticize “communists” among us because they are supposedly “Americans” also.

      What these dipsticks do not understand is that being a Citizen of the USA doesn’t make you an “American”. Not in the sense of being morally, ethically and politically aligned with “American” values.

      • I just call them Fascist Communist’s. It pretty much tells the story.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Good grief……………… banging my head on the table.

          • Actually I’m kidding. I’ve only called one person a true blue Communist, it was so clear a blind man could see it. I do however, call Obamacare a Fascist law, as it’s nothing more than a marriage between government and the health insurance industry. Then, there are those who like socialism but are more Communist than Socialist. I don’t think most folks on the left can understand Fascism (mostly because it’s overly related to Hitler). I doubt any of it is going to matter in the not to distant future, so I figure I can piss off a few people and get some entertainment value from it till Spring gets going and I’m not stuck in this damn house, UGH! This is cabin fever, a little early, due to the extreme cold we have been having, more records going to be broken tonight for sure.

            I continue with new experiments. I will actually agree with a Left wing position, and still come under attack, go figure. I will offer my best supply/demand economic explanation, only to be called names much worse than a Communist. Besides, Fascist Communist would be a bit of a contradiction, which fits in well with those whose entire mental capacity is nothing but contradictions. 😀

            Relax JAC, what are they gonna do, come get me? ROFLMAO! 🙂

      • And just who gets to define what constitutes an ‘American’ value??

        I swear, this site has finally gone over the deep end…such a shame.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          HISTORY my lawyer friend, HISTORY.

          So instead of dodging why not take the task head on.

          Is COMMUNISM an American value?

          Is SOCIALISM an American value?

          Are these systems compatible with the AMERICAN system that we were given by those that created this nation state?

          So don’t play the you’ve gone off the deep end here. These are serious and appropriate questions. Your response mirrors the “shut the hell up” tactic used by the radicals these days. Designed to stop discussion, not foster thinking or understanding.

          • To question Obama’s ‘love for country’, his patriotism, is clearly going off the deep end.

            During the Bush years, there was plenty of severe criticism coming from the left, but I don’t recall such a concerted effort to deem Bush anti-American.

            Criticize Obama’s policies, not his motives. Why the push to label him un-American, un-patriotic? Why the push to question his stated religious affiliation?

            • Buck, Hope all is well with you and your family, hope the young one is enjoying the very best years of her life 🙂

              I have always had my questions about Obama’s patriotism. I was hoping his desire to “Transform America” meant something that might be a good thing. What I feel we got was just more of the same and maybe worse. Bush didn’t poke the bear (Russia) because he didn’t get his way (with Syria). Bush screwed up with Iraq, but he had plenty of Democrat support. There is always this “it’s bush’s fault that’s been going around about Iraq, but it’s Congress’s fault too. That includes Democrats.

              Between his immigration / multicultural position and his actions, it’s not hard to question his Patriotism. However, that is simply opinion, which we all have. I actually don’t care what his religion is, nor do I care if he is or is not a legal citizen. At this point it is all moot. I grew up looking at President’s and how they handle foreign affairs. I don’t think the President or Congress has any major effect on the economy for the most part. Although I think the so called “fair trade” agreements have done some serious harm to this countries future.

              Obama is simply unqualified when it comes to foreign affairs. He makes Carter look like a genius. With just under two years left in his Presidency, I hope he don’t get us involved in the next world war. We are no longer respected on the world stage, which is not surprising. I just hope no country like Russia decides to take advantage of having a poor President and a tired military that has been reduced considerably. Let’s just see what happens, then we can look back and better grade Obama.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Then I dont’ think you paying close attention. I doubt you were watching or listening to all the new age media left wing stuff back then. Like “Air America”, etc, etc. The stuff was viscous and non stop for awhile. This contributed to Fox gaining its position. Conservatives were getting sick of the stuff and Fox attacked the attackers. Their ratings climbed as a result.

              Why not label him un-American if the accuser believes this? He has explained why he said it. Why shouldn’t the pundits deal with his “reasons” instead of claiming that any question of his “love of our country” is off the deep end.

              Why is it not a fair game statement or question?

              You are free to argue why it is false or why it is unproductive to make such claims. There are many arguments to be made in both directions.

              But that is not what happens. Instead it immediately goes to character assassination on behalf of “beloved dear leader”. Do you not see the sickness that has crept into our culture? That we can no longer tolerate any accusation against those in power because “he is our guy”!!

              As for me I have never pushed his religious affiliation except in that the church he attended. At that was because of the long history of that particular preacher’s venomous attitude towards the USA. And that Mr.. Obama claimed him a mentor until he became radio active. Then he claimed he had quite that church, never remembered those hateful sermons, and “disavowed” what Mr. Wright was saying. REALLY????

              And why not challenge somone’s “love of country” if you have reasons for doubting the same??

              Which by the way, I do not believe Mr. Obama loves America. Not the America of old nor the one envisioned by our founders. He probably loves the USA, as in the physical place. But he most certainly wants to “fundamentally change America”. Why would you want to fundamentally change something you supposedly love??

              Sorry Buck, I think this POTUS is a product of his upbringing and his choices to “become black” and all that entailed on the victimization side of the civil rights issues. He has always talked about America’s flaws and broken promises. Some of that is appropriate. But he has dwelled on it for a long time. He always falls back on the negative and the flaws. That tells me he has accepted the paradigm that America is “racist, imperialistic, etc, etc.” and that it is his job to “make all this right”.

              This then informs his policies. Which without some understanding of his views and beliefs would sometime not make any sense. Like the immigration executive orders, hell the use of EO’s to push his “agenda” period, instead of trying to deal with Congress in person.

              • Sorry JAC, but the criticism (and, yes, vitriol) leveled at Bush was very different from that leveled at Obama. From day one, not only was Obama’s patriotism questioned, but so too was his ‘true’ religious identity and even his citizenship.

                Have a debate as to the policy proposals, not to Obama’s ‘true’ motivations. It isn’t abou him being ‘my guy’ – I have my own criticisms with his presidency and policies. It isn’t just unproductive, but counterproductive.

                Obama has long demonstrated his love for country – he is just able to criticize our history as well. He is able to see some of our past and current problems with various issues, racism and discrimination being but one. He strives to make America an even better place by acknowledging these issues and working to correct them. You may disagree with his policies, but this doesn’t make him anti-American in the least.

            • Just A Citizen says:


              Good lord man, you are proof of why most American know nothing of our history. Hell, we can’t remember even 15 years ago.

              So lets start with the premise pushed for two decades now, THAT BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION from Gore. THAT GORE WON FLORIDA.

              This crap is still prevalent among the left. It was spewed daily by left wing media, and that was BEFORE 9/11.

              Sorry, Buck but the magnitude of the attacks on Bush were unprecedented in my lifetime. Which includes memory of Kennedy up until today.

              Now as for those against Obama, it seems you are reacting to a small number of people who just happened to have a bigger megaphone than anyone before. Which you can thank the Bush critics for creating. That is how this escalation works. Much like the SCOTUS confirmation process. The ugliness started with Bork. It has gotten worse each cycle sense.

              Mr. Obama is anti-American in my view. But that is using MY definition of what that means. Which I have explained. His rejection of negative rights as the proper foundation of our country is entirely an anti American concept. Sorry, but that is reality.

              Now the socialists will eventually win and America will be “fundamentally transformed” to something new. And they will get to define Americanism. Oh, wait, they already are doing that. I now see people accused of TREASON for opposing the affordable care act.

              But as I said, HISTORY tells us what the conceptual foundation of AMERICA was. This POTUS does not support let alone love that. But then he is just one of a long line sitting in that chair who failed on this count.

              I do agree with your critique to one extent. I think it is appropriate to question a POTUS’s love of America and what it means. But in this day and age it is politically unwise and counterproductive.

              Now answer my questions about socialism and communism being American.

              How about the idea that positive rights should replace negative rights?

              • Socialism and communism? I don’t believe any element of such is un-American per se. There have always been elements at work. To argue otherwise ignores history.

                As to your post below – as you know I have long argued for single-payer health care. I guess that means I am un-American in your view. I can live with that.

              • “As to your post below – as you know I have long argued for single-payer health care. I guess that means I am un-American in your view. I can live with that.”

                No, you are not un-American, by modern definition. You are un-American by definition to its founding, however.

                But worse, you are anti-freedom.

        • Nah, just a tool of Wall Street Capitalism and a fascist Pig but then again, that’s the same crew that spells it Amerika. Nothin important.

          American values? To strive for the ideals represented in the Declaration. Note, I said strive for. We are humans, we are and always will be imperfect. We strive for perfection rarely if ever attaining it.

          • And how specifically do you believe Obama doesn’t strive for those same ideals? Or at least how he views those ideals?

            • Just A Citizen says:


              The most egregious: “The problem with the Consitution, and the Bill of Rights specifically, is that they are a statement of negative rights and not positive rights”.

              The notion that positive rights should prevail over negative rights is a direct assault on the principles in the Declaration and the entire founding era. It gets no clearer than that.

              Federalized health care.

              Federalized control of local police.

              Federalized control of all water in the USA, including on private land.

              Federalized control of the internet.

              Federal take over of private contracts…….. remember the banking bailouts and GM bailouts?

              Now while these all violate the Declaration’s principles they are not restricted to Mr. Obama if you look at the concept and not the policy detail. This is just the latest and next step AWAY from where we were supposed to be.

              After the ACA ruling I have almost equal contempt for Mr. Roberts and Mr. Obama. Because I expected better of Mr. Roberts.

            • I could take it apart line by line. But it is not worth it. Just throw out some of the relevant words:
              Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness, Endowed by their creator (he even left that out in a speech), Deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (“I’ll Veto it!”)

              While you are at it, read what we accused KG of and tell me how many of these things are relevant today.

              He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
              He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
              He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
              He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
              He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
              He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
              He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
              He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
              He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
              He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
              He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
              He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
              He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
              For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
              For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
              For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
              For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
              For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
              For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
              For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
              For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
              For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
              He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
              He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
              He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
              He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
              He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

              In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

              Pretty damned neat!

            • I asked this question above the other day of you. You must have missed it.

              Buck, let us say that the next president is a right wing zealot or extreme libertarian. He decides on his own that Equal opportunity laws and voter rights laws are no longer needed. He issues an executive order/memo and decides they will not be enforced.

              OK with you that that particular ox is now being gored?

              • No, of course that isn’t ok with me. That being said, that President would have within his authority some level of ‘prosecutorial discretion’ in enforcement. Doesn’t mean I have to like it or agree with it.

                But let me add that there is a difference between prioritizing enforcement and the wholesale discarding of a law.

              • And pray tell, the “amnesty” is not a wholesale discarding of the law? We must use different dictionaries.

              • Obama sought to expand the issuance of certain provisional waivers and grant deferred action to certain individuals.

                I personally believe this falls within his authority. However, an action was brought as to its constitutionality and a stay issued pending resolution of the constitutional question. Obama has rightly halted implementation due to this decision.

      • With a higher body count than the Nazis could have even prayed for, (Hell Stalin killed as many Ukrainians in the ’30’s as Hitler did Jews in the ’40’s) the Communists still manage to gain sympathy and support that would never be afforded to any Fascist be they German, Italian or Spanish. Can never really understand the “why” of that.

        Always got a kick out of the fact that the unwashed, uneducated did not understand the German Soviet Pact. How often do you ever see it mentioned that when the Germans entered Poland Stage Right, the Soviets entered stage left? Polish Officers from Western Poland sat out the war in German POW camps (true fact!). Polish officers from the East wound up in Katyn Forest, six or so feet under.

        The American Communist Party was actively pro German and Anti British until 6.22.41. The Venona Tapes demonstrate clearly that the CPUSA was an apparatus of Moscow. That makes its members, apologists, fellow travelers etc here, something called “traitors”.

        Personally every Commie SOB in this country including the correctly maligned Hollywood 10 should have been locked up. Something that their current apologists would only reserve for Nazi supporters. As far as I am concerned, they can all share the same circle of hell. Got into a great fight with my boss years ago when she, a staunch feminist would not believe that Lillian Hellman, the authoress and playwright and the basis for the movie “Julia” starring Jane Fonda, never, not ever condemned Stalin.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      P.S. Left Wing Contradictions.

      If you start extolling Patriotic values the LEFT will quickly call you a Fascist.

      But call them un-Patriotic and they will go apoplectic.

    • Don’t be too impressed, urban sniping is something the average deer hunter can do.

      • It isn’t about being impressed-just highlighting that those who condemn snipers being used to save the lives of soldiers and others under their care, actually use them to protect themselves.

  33. It has been a long time since I actually read the Declaration and the charges we brought against King George. These four just leaped out at me.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

    I like that “eat out their substance line” No wonder people are afraid of the Tea Party.

    • Pretended legislation= executive orders or memorandums

      Obstructing the laws for naturalization

      Federal lifetime judges.

      Swarms and swarms of new regulators.

      Now I will certainly lay some of these at the feet of other POTUS’ but this guy wants to do it all.

  34. Anybody else figure out the coincidence between the recent terrorist threat against shopping malls and the DHS funding issue? Can it get any more obvious?

  35. Just A Citizen says:



    As to your post below – as you know I have long argued for single-payer health care. I guess that means I am un-American in your view. I can live with that. I THOUGHT WE ESTABLISHED THIS POINT LONG AGO. I RECALL MATHIUS MADE ALMOST THE SAME STATEMENT ONCE. WE GOT PAST IT THEN AND I DON’T SEE IT AS A PROBLEM NOW. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY COMMENTS THIS MORNING.





    • Just A Citizen says:


      By the way, I did not have great heartburn over lefties calling Bush a traitor or unpatriotic. I did have heartburn over a few Fox and talk radio pundits reacting the same way the media is now doing with Giuliani.

      You see, it is very American to throw such accusations at a president. That is until recently. All of a sudden there is this pressure to treat POTUS as KING when it comes to this stuff. Maybe it is the media’s increased chatter that makes it seem so much bigger. 24/7 news cycles and mixing editorial commentary with news is making the world very NOISY.

      The one issue I had with Dems, and which I think I discussed here some time ago, was the “elected” Dems ripping into Bush while we had troops engaged in active combat. Some did this almost right at the start. My comment then and now is that elected officials should be free to express their concerns but have a greater responsibility to do it in a way that is productive but does not enable or embolden our enemies. I thought many Dems crossed that line, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Howard Dean in particular.

      But the rest of us should be free to criticize away. Which then leads to the “is it productive” question. As I said above, I don’t think it is. Now I just hope that Giuliani loudly endorses Jeb Bush……………. 😉

      • I think it’s fair to criticize any President, which has been done for a long time. Today we have Social Media, all the different “wing” sites, the corporate whore media and talk radio that does much of the same. People are bombarded with propaganda everyday. It is no wonder why most people are relatively politically ignorant, they don’t know who to believe.

        But I digress, the whole Federal government is seriously broken and needs seriously, reformed, far more than immigration or healthcare or any other BS subject they make up.

        Terrorist threats against shopping malls? As I said, what a coincidence. Nothing new here. The last time the DHS was threatened, they cried wolf then as well. Then, oh yes, then, despite a massive police presence, we had the Boston Marathon bombing. So, they couldn’t protect the people then, won’t be able to in the future, so defund them, keep the Coast Guard running and shut the rest down.

        Speaking of the Mall of America, it’s a no gun zone. Maybe they should put up a “no terrorist sign” as well to keep them out 🙄 Fortunately, in PA, carrying in a “no gun zone” is not a violation of any gun laws (with the exception of a Federal Building). It’s considered trespass, but only if a gun carrier refuses to leave the premise. Most will gladly leave if asked.

        @Anita, hope all is working out for you. A cold minus 9 this morning, another record broken in February. Looks like a small warm up for the weekend and maybe more record lows in the first week of March. Hurry up Spring weather 🙂

  36. I remember the saying that one had to step on people in order to get to the top-seems this woman thinks woman have to be allowed to kill our children to get there-that it is somehow honorable to do so.

  37. I feel a little unsettled by the conversation last night-I can’t point to any specific idea that I adamantly disagree with as much as I just don’t like the over riding idea that it takes very little to deem someone unamerican or unpatriotic. It isn’t a term I would apply to my fellow Americans lightly.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I don’t doubt it made you, and others reading, squirm a bit. Which goes to my comments early yesterday. The accusation causes a predictable reaction, even by those who despise displays of patriotism or “pro-American” behavior.

      I think this gut reaction, or unease, is largely the result of our cultural conditioning. In the beginning people were described as “patriots” not to America but to “Liberty”. People were not traitors of America but “traitors to the cause” or “traitors of Liberty”.

      Ironically it was the “progressives” and “American Legion” movements who started hammering the concept of Patriotism into our brains. It was they that forced “civics” into our schools along with other forms of indoctrination or training. It was they that re-cast “patriotism” in the vane of place rather than idea. Although they did vehemently classify communism as “un-American”.

      It is true that some people throw the “un-American” accusation freely and based on nothing but “I don’t like or disagree with XYZ”. I do not use the accusation or judgment without explaining “my” definitions and meaning. Hopefully my claims are consistent with all my other arguments, especially the notion that “America” was more an idea than a place.

      I find it amazing that in my lifetime “Communism” or “being a Communist” is now viewed as “being” American. Everything about Communism is antithetical to the concept of Liberty which “America” was founded upon. So how could “Communism” itself be anything but ANTI American???

      At the same time any person holding a belief in Communism can be an American, as in a citizen of the USA. But they hold anti-American view points.

      Now notice how those complaining of the label, and to some extent your discomfort, is due to the fact that they never have to describe what “pro-American” or “being American” means to them. They simply counter attack and evoke the ghost of McCarthy.

      In summary, in my viewpoint it does not take “very little” to earn the “title” but it does require “specific” beliefs and/or actions that go against the core principles of individual freedom, liberty and justice. And of course, supporting a powerful centralized “federal” government.

      Now, lets open the discussion to what others think “BEING” American or being “PRO” American means.

      • I would like your opinion on this article-I’ve highlighted some of it-while I give your post some thought. 🙂

        ” Kevin is self-evidently correct in endorsing Giuliani’s assertion that President Obama doesn’t love America. But that is likely to be misunderstood by lefties as a claim that Obama is anti-American, which is not correct. Instead, he is our first post-American president. A post-American may like his country just fine, but that feeling is akin to the attitude one might have for a suburb you might live in — it’s a nice enough place, but if you got a better job or found a more suitable house, you’d leave without too much anguish. Love of country, on the other hand, is an emotion, and post-Americans (and post-nationals in general) simply do not experience that emotion.”

        Read more at:

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I was not aware of Jeb Bush’s reported attempt to distance himself from the family legacy. That makes more sense of some of his comments, like those on immigrants.

          I do believe there is an “emotional” aspect to “love of country” but that this emotion is different for most of us. I have a great love of this country, as in the place and people. I have a greater love of the ideas on which it was founded. Hence my comments long ago that it would be hard for me, but I would move to a “place” that enforced those principles. I would rather resurrect them here, but I would move if they were available elsewhere. But then most of my “clan” have always been willing to travel to new worlds for greater freedom.

          I think the “Kevin” he references in the beginning is more informative on the discussion about “loving America”. We forget that “socialists” and “communists” are by the nature of their beliefs anti-nationalists. Mr. Obama is not different. He displays the “nationalism” of a typical “fascist progressive”. But the underlying socialism pushes towards an “international” view point. A world without national borders or identities.

          There is also an part of this linked to the left wing view of themselves as intellectually superior to most of us, of their cosmopolitan and worldly views. Pushing this viewpoint is part of our higher education system as well. The stuff my oldest was fed at University was eye opening. Much more blatant that the stuff I saw in the early 70’s.

          Anyway, if you have not already read it here is the link to the “Kevin” comment:

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Something else on the American theme. I thought some might find this interesting, from Wiki..The topic is ALLEGIENC

      “United States[edit]

      The doctrine that no man can cast off his native allegiance without the consent of his sovereign was early ABANDONDED (emphasis by JAC) in the United States, and Chief Justice John Rutledge also declared in Talbot v. Janson, “a man may, at the same time, enjoy the rights of citizenship under two governments.”[2] On July 27, 1868, the day before the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, U.S. Congress declared in the preamble of the Expatriation Act that “the right of expatriation is a natural and inherent right of all people, indispensable to the enjoyment of the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” and (Section I) one of “the fundamental principles of this government” (United States Revised Statutes, sec. 1999). Every natural-born citizen of a foreign state who is also an American citizen and every natural-born American citizen who is a citizen of a foreign land owes a double allegiance, one to the United States, and one to his homeland (in the event of an immigrant becoming a citizen of the US), or to his adopted land (in the event of an emigrant natural born citizen of the US becoming a citizen of another nation). If these allegiances come into conflict, he or she may be guilty of treason against one or both. If the demands of these two sovereigns upon his duty of allegiance come into conflict, those of the United States have the paramount authority in American law; likewise, those of the foreign land have paramount authority in their legal system. In such a situation, it may be incumbent on the individual to renounce one of his citizenships to avoid possibly being forced into situations where countervailing duties are required of him, such as might occur in the event of war.

      Oath of allegiance[edit]

      Main articles: Oath of allegiance and Pledge of allegiance

      The oath of allegiance is an oath of fidelity to the sovereign taken by all persons holding important public office and as a condition of naturalization. By ancient common law it might be required of all persons above the age of 12, and it was repeatedly used as a test for the disaffected. In England it was first imposed by statute in the reign of Elizabeth I of England (1558) and its form has more than once been altered since. Up to the time of the revolution the promise was, “to be true and faithful to the king and his heirs, and truth and faith to bear of life and limb and terrene honour, and not to know or hear of any ill or damage intended him without defending him therefrom.” This was thought to favour the doctrine of absolute non-resistance, and accordingly the convention parliament enacted the form that has been in use since that time – “I do sincerely promise and swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty …”

      In United States and some other republics, the oath is known as the Pledge of Allegiance. Instead of delcaring fidelity to a monarch, the pledge is made to the flag, the republic, and to the core values of the country, specifically liberty and justice. The reciting of the pledge in the United States is voluntary because of the rights guaranteed the to people under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.”

      Now notice in that last paragraph, “to the core values of the country, specifically liberty and justice.” This is consistent with my prior comments about being a Patriot of Liberty during the revolutionary period, as opposed to being a Patriot of the USA/America or colonies.

      On the other hand, there were references to Patriotism relative to STATES in that period. As well as references to STATES as “my country” by many founders.

      • Maybe the allegiance one has for Country and the allegiance one has for the American idea of Liberty are simply two different things. But if the flag is the symbol for liberty and justice-America her self is the anchor. Liberty and justice are ideas but in order to live out those ideas, to fight for those ideas when necessary there must be something to anchor it too. America, the land is that anchor to me. So it isn’t that I disagree so much with you-I simply think maybe you have to have both. And even with our disagreement over policies and how they affect liberty and justice-I look at love for ones Country as a mixture of both these allegiances.

        So while I will call Obama not only un-american but anti-american , I would not say the same for most, are all democrats. Now Obama-I firmly believe that he hates America-he is not doing what he thinks is right or good for America-he is trying to give America what HE believes we deserve and it isn’t anything good.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I agree that when it comes to concepts about political rights you need a “place” to anchor the practical application of those concepts. It is the place and the family and friends who “share” those values which gives “LIFE” to the affection for liberty. These are functions of place, not just the mind.

          The USA is different in this respect as in so many. While most people of the world felt allegiance to a nation, tribe, clan or King in the USA the concepts of Political Principles like Liberty, Justice and Private Property became the focus. Of course these are linked to the “place” we call USA because it was THIS PLACE where these CONCEPTS were allowed to flourish and become primary. This is why America is truly and “EXCEPTIONAL” Nation in the history of all nations.

          I disagree with your view on Obama in this respect. He is doing what HE FEELS IS BEST FOR AMERICA. The problem or contradiction with your view and mine is that he has an entirely different view of what America is or should be. Thus what is best for HIS AMERICA is not what is best for OUR America.

          This of course is the crux of the left vs. right paradigm we have today. And the reason accusations of UN-AMERICAN cause the left to have a cow. If you defend this accusation you will necessarily reveal their true nature. So they must confuse everyone with what “being pro American or just being American” is all about.

          On the “conservative” side I also see the concept twisted and confused. Just to be both fair and clear. Accusing someone of being un-patriotic or treasonous, or un-American for opposing military intervention or our conduct of war is a prime example. And both sides of the political spectrum now play this “loyalty to POTUS” as some measure of our patriotism. Such a concept is clearly “un-American” as well.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      A little expansion on my reference to the American Legion and its role in pushing “Patriotism” and “100% Americanism”. Keep in mind Buck’s comment that elements of communism are American because “history” shows they have been around for a long time. Keep that in mind while reading the last paragraph on the Legion’s proposed legislation.

      “The preamble of the (American Legion) constitution adopted in St. Louis[32] became one of the seminal statements of the Legion’s orientation and objectives:

      “For God and Country we associate ourselves together for the following purposes:

      “To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America; to maintain law and order; to foster and perpetuate a 100 Percent Americanism; to preserve the memories and incidents of our association in the Great War; to inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state, and nation; to combat the autocracy of both the classes and the masses; to make right the master of might; to promote peace and good will on earth; to safeguard and transmit to prosperity the principles of justice, freedom, and democracy; to consecrate and sanctify our comradeship by devotion to mutual helpfulness.”

      The St. Louis Caucus spent much of its time discussing resolutions: whether a stand should be taken on the League of Nations, Prohibition, or the implementation of universal military service, whether posts composed of Negro soldiers should be established, and whether Secretary of War Newton D. Baker should be impeached for his apparent leniency towards conscientious objectors in the months after the war.[33]

      A particularly hard line was taken towards the American radical movement, with one resolution passed on the final day calling on Congress to “pass a bill or immediately deporting every one of those Bolsheviks or Industrial Workers of the World.”[34] Minneapolis, Minnesota was chosen for the site of the founding convention of the organization in November over the more centrally-located Chicago after much acrimonious debate about the perceived political transgressions of the Chicago city administration.”

      Note to Buck; History can be a harsh mistress. Just when you think you know her she reveals herself as something different.

  38. I wonder when people are going to start realizing that no one, especially anyone who isn’t on the specifically chosen minority list,even though they aren’t exempt either, can satisfy the demands of the politically correct gone insane. When enough people face that truth maybe this craziness will stop.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I especially loved how they went berserk on Sean Penn for his OBVIOUS sarcastic comment that was OBVIOUSLY aimed at Republicans on the immigration issue. All I could think was that they have become such trained seals that they even “eat their own” at the sound of the whistle.

      • Well darn, I missed the Sean Penn incident-one would think he would be given the benefit of doubt-unless one realizes that the mob just reacts-they don’t actually think.

  39. Just A Citizen says:

    I saw this on MSNBC last night and about choked to death on my bourbon. Rachel Maddow’s usual snarky reaction was, well usual. Now it is going viral so I must point out how the “reactions” fit the narrative about the left wing media and the “whistle training of seals”.

    Does anyone really believe that this man, who is a lawyer and family man, does not know how a woman’s anatomy works? There was a time when an obviously bungled line of questioning would have been ignored as an obvious bungling of a line of questioning. It shows lack of planning in anticipating the testimony, but not of women’s anatomy.

    One other note. Some time back I commented on how I thought “operatives” were watching and manipulating Wikipedia, among other information sites. An entry was made to Wikipedia on Mr. Barieri’s page stating that on February 23, 2015 ….he asked this question. It then gives only the stupid sounding part. This means that someone deliberately went almost immediately to Wikipedia and constructed what sounded like an “historians” description of a ridiculous event.

    I do not know Mr. Barbieri, YET. I plan to meet him as soon as convenient. Perhaps this weekend at the Lincoln Banquet. He may well be an idiot for all I know. Many here certainly don’t like the guy because of his “Tea Party” views. Although nobody can tell me what “Tea Party” views are just yet.

    I will report back on the guy when I know more. But my point is to the manipulation by the modern media and a warning about how the propagandists have infiltrated so much of the internet.

    • God day to you and yours this fine, but cold day 🙂

      It is getting to a point that debating any position is almost impossible due to all the insane propaganda that is put on the internet. I was trying to determine the REAL reason for the recent Wal-mart wage increases, in the back of my mind thinking it may due to their dislike of labor unions. Turns out it’s an attempt to improve customer service and employee moral, a decision that began about a year ago. It took me 19 google pages to finally get to this story. A majority of the crap put out was that “Walmart finally woke up to the living wage issue” or “it’s still not enough” or “this is what happens when people band together-AFL-CIO) and all kinds of simply incorrect bulldookie. One article on the NM even claimed it was because of this great economy we have, using “projected” BLS numbers to back it up. It seems that the propaganda is picking up a lot lately, which makes me wonder what the hell is fixing to happen.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        The “what is happening” is simple. It is ELECTON SEASON again. It now never stops.

        The absolutely last thing the Dems can have happen is an economy in the tank during the next POTUS election. They will not be able to blame it on Congress. It will fall right in the lap of the Democrats policies. Whether right or wrong that is how it will be played.

        Oh, and I believe we are soon to experience the next “recession”. Can’t say which year but it is better than 50/50 in my view.

        • I also think there is MORE Left Wing propaganda being put out. In many cases, I read basically the same article with a new title. It’s like they are purposely article bombing the internet to keep other opinions out of view.

          I do agree that we have a continuation of the recession we are still in, except it will be worse. The stock market is overvalued and due for a correction. We all know about the BDI, which is still at record lows. We are in a deflationary period for dry goods such as TV’s and appliances. I use my online shopping business to watch prices of numerous items. All are heading down. Last year, for example, a cheap 40 inch flat screen HD 1080p TV ran about 400.00 on average. I bought my mother one on sale at 379.00 just last Spring. Today, I can get the same TV for 228.00. That’s at Sam’s club,, while an RCA 40 inch is 269.00 at Wal-mart today.

          It’s prime buying time, but people aren’t buying, even with the savings on gasoline. I’m still watching, but I see more deflation coming. Sept/Oct seems to be a good time for a market mess or a bank disaster. We shall see.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Be careful to not confuse true deflation with price reductions resulting from increased sales volumes or improved productivity. Just because your tv costs less today does not mean that the supply of money relative to the demand has declined.

            Also keep in mind that reductions in prices from INFLATIONARY highs are just an adjustment to long term trends.

            The reduced prices in dollars, resulting from increased value of the dollar is RELATIVE to those currencies being devalued by inflation. I also think more people are buying stuff than you realize. Perhaps you need to expand your evaluation.

            • I expect consumer spending to rise for the short term, maybe till June, do to tax refunds. I’m not the greatest on economics, I figure I get the basics. I follow supply/demand as an indicator. If the BDI is low, products are not moving between countries because there is not a market for them. Either people aren’t buying or the inventory is full. I tend to see it as both, inventory is high because people aren’t buying. Wages are stagnant. To many people not working.

              My answer to my personal economic situation. I have a pig at the butcher’s and I’ve decide to butcher ALL my chickens and buy a calf (Black Angus) and raise it for meat. Not quite sure exactly how I’m going to manage all of this, I will talk to my neighbor and work with him, since it will be one of his calves I’ll be buying. May have to buy another freezer! That’s the plan at the moment, subject to change of course 🙂

              I would like to hear Black Flag’s input on the economics of today, if he’s out there!

              • “I expect consumer spending to rise for the short term, maybe till June, do to tax refunds”

                BDI is fundamental for alerting to a coming recession. No one is ordering goods, inventories are full across the board. No is buying.

  40. Just A Citizen says:

    In my discussion with Buck last night, regarding un-Americanism, and why I believe Mr. Obama to be “un-American”, I raised his view on the Constitution as my primary evidence. I presented in quotes the essence of his statement. In fairness, I present the full statement and context for everyone to review. I still stand by my opinion of Mr. Obama on this matter. I also stand by the view that the context of a person’s background is in fact relevant to any judgment of their character and intent. Simply limiting judgment to a policy without understanding possible motivations is not a RATIONAL judgment at all.

    It is not enough to ridicule the ACA as bad policy. One must understand the motives of why it was passed in order to understand why the mess was tolerated and where we are headed. This being just one example of why motives are important.

    Here is the promised context of Mr. Obama’s comment on negative vs. positive liberty or rights.

    • Good article. Obama is a thief.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Just can’t help yourself can you!

        • 😀 LMAO! You should have read what I initially typed and decided to delete. In short, I find the “wealth redistribution” mentality as theft. When one believes and pushes it, not to mention his current status as the President, in my opinion, he is a thief. I don’t know if Obama is “un-American” or “un patriotic”. I don’t think it’s fair that I judge him in that manner. I don’t like is politics and ideology, period. That don’t make him the anti-Christ just yet. Whether you call him Robin Hood or Barak Obama, the actions are still the same, theft.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            That is much better. An actual presentation of reasons.

            Now look what I found in comment on Yellen’s testimony today. Do you see any problem with these comments?

            Person 1: “Did you know that no central bank = no national debt?

            Person 2: “Its true, but how can we have a debt based economy without debt. If we are required to pay up front without kicking the can down the road then we must be prepared to live very differently.”

            Oh, and she mentioned that “the housing market has not recovered as we had hoped”. Told ya ……………… housing is the anchor and it cannot just be cut loose. It accounts for far to much of the “blue collar” labor market and thus the “median income” of the under $50,000 per year groups. That is to much to allow the data to show recovery without housing rebounding. Not until some more changes occur in the structure of our economy as a whole. More robots and less houses.

            We are seeing more news about slight wage increases. This always happens near the end of a recovery period and sometimes right before the next drop in GDP. When the media is reporting increases in REAL Median income recession will be around the corner.

            As for your calf. If you buy a calf you will have until a year from this fall before you should butcher. Your better off buying a “yearling” then you can butcher this fall.

            When you do you will have around 800 lbs of meat. A full steer, butchered w/bone in, will take a FULL large stand up freezer and part of a small chest freezer. So yes, you will probably need more freezer space.

            But don’t forget you can use jerky and salami to reduce freezer space demand. Also you could “can” some of it.

            Good luck with your new ranch there Cowboy.

            • We are not alone with Central banks. The biggest mistake ever made was the Federal Reserve ACT in 1913. It seems that all currencies are debasing. We are in new territory here and the outcome is unknown. I plan for worst case, which is the wisest way, but is also limited.

              The calf issue may be quite easy, will work with farmer and may just raise it with the herd. The calf would be happier and healthier, plus I won’t have to worry about how it’s raised as far as medical stuff. I help him move the herd across the road some 30 times a year so it’s not a bad idea. I will look at the economics. The chickens taste great, so I can still grow eaters in my chicken tractor if I choose. I can get eggs from my neighbor cheap, time to make some changes for the better.

              I will be honest and say that I’m quite concerned about the economy. I just have a bad feeling inside of me that I can’t explain.

              • Just A Citizen says:


                You did not address my question about what if anything is wrong with the comments. Hint; your comment about debasing currency is also slightly flawed. You presume the FED is a requirement of debasement.

              • Gman, JAC

                A Central bank is required to create a debasement of money.

                Without it, any debasement of free market money merely causes the abandonment of one set of molecules that was money into another set of molecules that becomes money. Those holding the old money lose, and those that hold the new money win as the new “good” money replaces the old “bad” money.

                Central banks, which hold a monopoly on money prevent such abandonment. Their “bad” money drives away the “good” money by prohibiting good money from coming into existence.

              • Sorry 🙂 You mean this:

                Person 1: “Did you know that no central bank = no national debt?

                Person 2: “Its true, but how can we have a debt based economy without debt. If we are required to pay up front without kicking the can down the road then we must be prepared to live very differently.”

                This say’s austerity. The only country that has managed things correctly is Iceland, and that is the model to follow.

                Now, we are at a 20 year low of home ownership, which is not a recovery.
                Can you rephrase your question?

              • Just A Citizen says:


                The flaw is the claim that “no central bank = no national debt”.

                It does not require a central bank to incur national debt, nor have we always been debt free when we did not have a “central bank”. The Continental Congress, later the Congress and then the Treasury Dept. all were capable of running deficits and incurring debt.

                Remember, Adams went to the Dutch to get “loans” to help pay for the Revolution.

              • I see. My mind is on current times.

              • As a quick question, why is the Federal Reserve so AGAINST an audit?

  41. I find the anti-American talk important, but often misguided when it comes to Obama. Here’s how I look at it. If this country was invaded (like the Red Dawn movie) , do you trust Obama to protect the people, with the full force of our military.

    At this point I do not trust him to protect this country.

    • @Buck, do you trust Obama to defend this nation as I pointed out?

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I DO. There is no doubt in my mind that he would authorize the military to defend the USA as necessary.

      My only reservation is what else he might try to accomplish during the “crisis”. People need to keep in mind that all policy initiative do not originate with POTUS. They come from staff and advisors as well. If POTUS is inclined he/she will just let these ideas run.

      This is one reason we don’t see major changes after national elections. The people “behind the curtains” don’t change as nearly as much as the people standing at the podium.

      • I’m not concerned about being invaded, to be clear 🙂 Any country stupid enough to do so, would have to have Obama in their pocket to have any chance at success. Without Obama in their pocket, there will never be an invasion. Do you see where I’m coming from now?

  42. Just A Citizen says:

    Well, well, this is going to be interesting.

    I had planned to attend the local Republican Party Central Committee meeting tonight. This would be my first contact with this group in 7 years. Looks like things have changed a little since I was gone.

  43. Just A Citizen says:


    Re: Auditing the Fed.

    1. A real audit will do nothing. It will confirm that the Fed’s books are in balance.

    2. Which means the real reason for “audit” is not to actually audit the books. But to expose how the Fed operates and what deals are made behind the curtain. Including what the Fed’s actual commitments are in terms of debt obligations. As well as how much the Fed makes on all this financial transaction stuff and who is getting it.

    3. Which should explain why the Fed does not want an AUDIT. Aside from the chance of exposing corruption, or perceived corruption, the Fed fears that increased oversight could increase political influence over its decisions. Like happen with all other Federal agencies.

    The anti Fed people need to address the fundamental question of whether they believe a Treasury Dept. would do better. Which could lead to addressing the purpose of the Fed in the first place.

    The FED TOOK AUTHORITY during the financial crisis which it did not have. Nobody was fired or sent to jail. The Fed’s argument is whether you really want Congress tackling those kinds of crisis decisions? If so can Congress act PROPERLY and TIMELY??

    Based on TARP and the STIMULUS I see little difference. While the Fed moved quickly so did Congress once prodded by Treasury and the Banks. And BOTH screwed up royally, in my view, regarding what they did do.

  44. Just A Citizen says:

    Does anyone at SUFA really think SCOTUS is going to overturn the ACA subsidies based on the technicality that the language didn’t allow them??

    The left wing blogs and media have been escalating the anger and fear of the “Republican Controlled Supreme Court” over turning the ACA on “trumped up and phony charges”.

    Given Robert’s collapse of integrity last time I cannot imagine him or the others changing the game now. I expect the same split on votes that allowed this abomination to survive the first time.

  45. Just A Citizen says:

    The article is almost two years old. But you heard it here first at SUFA, almost 6 years ago.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      I forgot the footnote, just for you: Now what is that about voting doesn’t change anything???

      First they voted with their feet. Then they went to the ballot box. They created a bright RED spot where a blue one had once existed.

      • JAC, I have always been quite clear that my objections to voting was strictly at the federal level! The best way to change things via voting is at the local level. Your bourbon is causing some memory loss my friend 😀

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