Merry Christmas

thU3H5KX1PAs we head towards Christmas 2015, I would like to wish everyone a safe and happy holiday season and a very Merry Christmas.  While some of us have our differences in what we believe, it’s a healthy disagreement.  What fun would it be if we all agreed on everything?  Obviously, we here at SUFA are not going to fix this countries problems by ourselves.  In fact, none of us will have any impact at all, but it’s fun to rant about the mess we currently have in the political world.  Merry Christmas my friends!




  1. gmanfortruth says:

    PEACE! 😀

  2. My kids loved Star Trek The Next Generation. One of the entities they battled was the Borg which was a distributed cyborg built by integrating life forms into the network. Once absorbed into the Borg, there was no escape, their motto being “We are the Borg, resistance is futile.”

    I see similarities between Islam and the Borg. Once part of the fold, leaving is forbidden and punishable by death. The objective is to absorb all other humans on the earth into their cult. If not absorbed, then submit or die.

    Obviously the writers of Star Trek allowed the Capt. to overcome being absorbed but they did not kill off the Borg since it might provide for good entertainment in the future. Similarly, we can suppress Islam and thwart its current rise to world domination, but it will be impossible to kill it off. So future generations will have to deal with it again. In the 1500s and 1600s it was pushed out to Spain and stopped at Vienna only to go dormant for several centuries. It is now back in most part because we made these people rich with oil money.

    One strategic thing we could do to stop the mayhem would be to cut off the oil money. If the western countries stopped taxing the domestic sale of fuel to consumers and transferred all that tax burden to a tariff on imported ME crude, we might be able to encourage domestic production to replace the bloody oil coming from the ME. Any thoughts from SUFA?

    • Oil lets them buy weapons but do NOT underestimate the power of the WORD. That’s what happened the last time without any oil money.

      People look for something beyond the day to day existence. Something greater than them. Somewhere in my collection of important things I have a National Review article by Dinish D’Souza done just after 9-11. Part of it is statements he takes from the Egyptian Iman who was the confessor of Osama BL. Muslims believe that they as people have the “purist” faith. Their belief is far superior to what passes for faith in Christianity or Jewry these days (with exceptions) . The Iman says and I believe I remember the quote correctly, “The West and the United States were once Christian, they are no more, they are now Pagan”.

      In the scheme of things, a believer will win out over a non-believer simply because he has something he is willing to fight and die for, something bigger than him, something he can be part of. There are individuals, secularists or fallen away non-practicing Jews or Christians who can rise to the occasion but these are individuals and they will be battling a society. The numbers do not favor them.

      As a Catholic it is interesting to see how the church has lost its members. Here in the West, we have lost our people to the culture, to what is hip and relevant. In South America, the Church is losing out to fundamentalists which will probably surprise a lot of people. The evangelicals have gone South and are making huge inroads. This should not be surprising when you see the storefront churches popping up throughout city neighborhoods in NY or Chicago or Boston catering to Hispanics who were born Catholic .

      After the changes of Vatican II in the early ’60’s we lost tons of Nuns, Brothers and Priests. They just walked away after investing ten, twenty or even thirty years of their lives. Orders that had been around for a thousand years closed up shop in 20. You might be surprised to see just how small the Jesuits have become. In a conversation with Junior the other day, a committed Catholic, I pointed out that in the 50 years since Vatican II, I a pretty good researcher, have never seen ex-religious polled as to why they left! He was a little taken aback by that but admitted that in his 16 years of Catholic education neither had he. Too late to do it now, they are mostly of WW 2 age or slightly younger. I have a theory and it is pretty simple it was when my Church joined the Protestant Churches and gave up rules. Relevance became the new thing. Missing Mass was no longer a sin (minor but a sin). We no longer sought our reward after this life but rather in this life. One of the great joys which I admit I never understood as a teen was the Brothers and Nuns talking about the “joy” of living in a community dedicated to prayer and good works. We can all see something of that today still in organizations like the Salvation Army. But it is mostly gone in the Catholic Church and in the Protestants sects, forget it! So, I ask, how can “we” beat the Mohammedan faith which still has rules?

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      I always looked at GOD as having a sense of humor. Putting all that oil in such a god foresaken region with a bunch of bedouins. not to take away any of past glory of the persians and babylonians and egyptians and ottomans. Since islam ran rampant over those countries what have they truly done? conquered yes, enhanced NO.

  3. gmanfortruth says:

    Paul’s legislation, named the Separation of Powers Restoration and Second Amendment Protection Act, would render any action on gun legislation by the president which circumvents Congress as “advisory only” in nature.

    Paul’s bill would apply to “any execution action on gun control that either infringes upon congressional authority or potentially violates the Second Amendment.”

    The bill then mandates that once an executive action has been classified as “advisory only,” it would require Congress to pass it in order for it to take effect.

    The bill also outlines that it is within their power for a “state official, member of Congress or person affected by an executive action on gun control to launch a civil lawsuit.”

    The legislation will be fast-tracked through the Senate and is expected to be made a priority after the Christmas recess.

    In a statement released Monday, Paul said, “In the United States, we do not have a king, but we do have a Constitution. We also have the Second Amendment, and I will fight tooth and nail to protect it.”

    This is just another example of how they are all on the same team. A completely unnecessary law, although only a bill, that would give the President the power to push HIS/HER legislation through Congress, thus allowing for the President to write law. We do not need this law, nor do I wish to have the Congress forced into voting on legislation written by a President. Total violation of separation of powers. Also, the right to sue is already there, why do we need another law?

  4. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    What i find so amazing is that there are only “investigations” being conducted by the government, when the “take” of a single eagle is a major violation, but yet there have been NO prosecutions and court ordered shut down of these killing machines. Yet the companies and wildlife groups acknowledge hundreds, just in this one facility, for years. But congress after all the years of promising to kill the subsidies renewed the yet again. where is the congressional oversight of the US wildlife game in prosecuting the law.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      The other year I went and visited my old town in VT. The town has a little new growth but was basically still a small, river and lakeside village. WIthin the town limits are a series of falls. It was a natural place to build water powered mills. However. during the raging storms in the late 20’s and 2 huge storms in the 30’s most notibly in ’36. All was destroyed. nothing but rubble and ruins along the river. As a flood control measure 3 dams were put in. Well sited that look well with the rock formations but also preserved the “falls” A major by-product was hydroelectric power. not once did the power fail and it was CHEAP. this last visit had now looming over the quaint NE village on the ridge a windfarm. I asked the old neighbors why? there was no need, now and forever….they said that they were powerless in stopping the project, town is upset and ugly. Talk about what the government thinks of “WE THE PEOPLE”

      In a recent articles about the impact to VT with this push for wind and solar to be 90% of the power in the state, will already push a very expensive place to live over the edge plus have what the state admits have zero affect on climate change and AGW. They cited hurricane “IRENE” as a major climate event….huh. they haven’t even come close to the flooding inthe past, ie ’36…..much less it was a beautiful state and if all available ridges will have windmills, plus an additional 30,000 acres of solar panels, what happened to the former demands of peace and serenity and pastoral beauty. back when I lived there the farmers and landowners wanted to do things with their land, but also maintained the beauty and rural setting. Farming was brutal there. nobody in their right mind wanted to work that hard. The people who blocked most of that land use, were out of staters and wanted to maintain their views of jersey cows. how everything has changed in 20 years. old timers are all gone, and its those newbees’ that want to now industrialize the landscape.

      Back when Howard Dean and Madeline Kunen (sp) were governors they blocked effectively a natural gas pipeline down through the state. Would have paralleled an existing Right of Way, the Interstate, and short branches would have provided a CHEAP, CLEAN form of energy to power the state and all its needs. They also severed all hydropower contracts with Canada, from power coming from up near hudson bay.

  5. Just A Citizen says:

    Wow……… turns out Scrooge and all his minions hang out at Daily KOS. The editorial was bad enough, but check out the comments. I am betting that if this had been done by “Progressive TV” or maybe Al Jazeera instead of UP it would have been raved over.

    Maybe there is a mental illness among the far left types.

  6. gmanfortruth says:
  7. gmanfortruth says:

    I took my father out to dinner at Applebee’s and then to the local (22 miles from home) mall theater Cineplex to see the latest Hunger Games movie. In our theater for the movie, the two of us and one young couple. Talk about a private showing! Coming out, ran into one of our nearest neighbors oldest daughters, getting popcorn and a soda, there with her mom and pops watching the Moby Dick movie. It’s such a small world sometimes. Nice theater, great sound. If you have seen the first 3 movies in the series, the 4th is worth the time.

  8. gmanfortruth says:

  9. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    We’re going to have a “WHET” (play on word) Christmas. In the 80’s Nobody is minding, AGW, when shorts and sandals are the dress. Just remember the umbrella.

    • It will be wet here in CA as well but we are not complaining.

      • Dale A. Albrecht says:

        Neither are we……Most here have moved from northern climes and DO NOT miss the cold white winters.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      We will have a warm holiday, around 50, with rain the day before and after. Compared to the freezing temps last year, this is a welcome change.

      • Dale A. Albrecht says:

        The water fowl season opened this past weekend. It is a rude awakening with the hunters shattering the dawn.

  10. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    This is a restaurant chain that has some serious issues and my bet will die rather than expand much further…..the latest outbreak, I believe in Kansas, is not listed.

    December 2015, Seattle health officials closed a Seattle-area Chipotle for a day after it had repeatedly had small numbers of violations during recent consecutive inspections that previously would not have generated a closure order.[146]

    March 2008 hepatitis outbreak[edit]In March and April 2008, the Community Epidemiology Branch of the San Diego County Health and Human Services Agency traced a hepatitis A outbreak in San Diego County to a single Chipotle restaurant located in La Mesa, California in which over 20 customers, but no employees, had tested positive for the virus.[147][148]

    April 2008 norovirus outbreak[edit]In 2008, Chipotle was implicated in a norovirus outbreak in Kent, Ohio, where over 400 people became ill after eating at a Chipotle restaurant.[149] Officials at the Ohio Department of Health said that the outbreak was caused by Norovirus Genotype G2.[150] Many of the victims were students at Kent State University and some of reported victims were secondary victims who contracted the virus from being in close contact with the persons who had gotten ill at Chipotle.[151] The initial source of the outbreak was never found.

    July 2015 E. coli outbreak[edit]In early November 2015, the Oregonian reported that there was a little known E. coli outbreak that had occurred earlier in July in which five persons were infected with the O157:H7 strain of E. coli. The outbreak was traced to a single Chipotle location in Seattle and that the incident was not publicized at that time.[152][153] Seattle public health officials defended their actions at that time by saying that the outbreak was over by the time they made an association with Chipotle. Health officials were unable to trace the source of the July outbreak and said that the cause of the July outbreak is unrelated to the October/November outbreak.[152]

    August 2015 norovirus outbreak[edit]Another norovirus outbreak was confirmed to have occurred in August 2015 at a Simi Valley, California location in which 80 customers and 18 employees reported becoming ill.[154][155] Ventura County health inspectors found various health violations during two inspections following the outbreak report. Despite those violations, the county health officials did not closed the restaurant and allowed it to continue to operate.[154]

    August 2015 Salmonella outbreak[edit]At almost the same time as the Simi Valley norovirus outbreak, Minnesota health officials confirmed a Salmonella outbreak that affected 17 Minneapolis-area Chipotle restaurants in mid-August 2015. The source of the outbreak was traced back to contaminated tomatoes that were grown in Mexico.[156][157] The Minnesota Department of Health reported that samples from 45 victims were tested and found that their illness was caused by the Salmonella Newport bacterium as determined by DNA fingerprinting.[158] Later, the state officials reported that the total of persons who became infected was increased to 64 and the number Chipotle locations in which they had acquired the bacterium was increased to 22, all located within the state of Minnesota.[159]

    October 2015 E. coli outbreak[edit]In October 2015, at least 22 persons were reported to have gotten sick after eating at several different Chipotle locations in the states of Washington and Oregon. At that time, an epidemiologist for the Washington Health Department said the culprit appeared to be a Shiga toxin-producing E. coli bacterium, but they were still waiting the outcome of several laboratory tests before they can give a definitive result.[160][161][162] As a precaution, Chipotle had closed 43 stores in Washington and Oregon pending the results and recommendations of the involved health authorities. On November 5, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) had reported that the number of persons reported ill had risen to 40 known cases and that the bacteria samples taken from 7 infected persons in Washington and 3 persons in Oregon states were confirmed to be infected by the same strain of E. coli, the Shiga toxin-producing STEC O26 strain, as determined by DNA fingerprinting.[163] At least 12 persons required hospitalization, but no fatalities. Health authorities are still trying to trace the exact source of the bacterial contamination, but currently suspect fresh produce.[164]

    On November 12, the CDC increased the number of known cases to 50, the number of persons requiring hospitalization to 14, and the number of DNA fingerprint confirmations to 33.[165] Through a match via Pulsenet, the DNA fingerprint also matched a recent case in Minnesota, but the ill person did not eat a Chipotle. The source of the bacteria infection still had not yet been determined at the time of the report released by the CDC and the CDC is trying to use the more definitive, but more time consuming whole genome sequencing procedure to see if they are able to determine the relationships between all of the STEC O26 cases. In the meantime, Chipotle reopened the closed restaurants on November 11 after disposing all of the food within the closed facilities and deep cleaning those facilities.[166]

    On November 20, the CDC reported that the number of STEC O26 cases, as determined by DNA fingerprinting, had increased to 45 with 16 persons requiring hospitalization and the total number states being affected had increased to six.[167] Besides Oregon and Washington, new cases were reported in the states of Minnesota, California, New York, and Ohio.[168] 43 out of 45 of the affected individuals had reported that they had eaten at a Chipotle in the week before they had became sick.

    On December 4, the CDC reported that the number of STEC O26 cases, as determined by DNA fingerprinting, had increased to 52 with 20 persons requiring hospitalization and the total number states being affected had increased to nine.[169] New cases were reported in the states of California (1), Illinois (1), Maryland (1), Ohio (2), Pennsylvania (1), and Washington (1).[170]

    The price of shares for Chipotle stock dropped a further 12% immediately after the CDC had issued their update on November 20.[171] Share prices had been dropping since the initial announcement of the E. coli outbreak in late October with investors unsure if the drop in share prices just a temporary aberration and that Chipotle management is handling the incident as well as they could. Chipotle has since hired a consultant to improve their food safety program and have their program reviewed by both the CDC and FDA.[172]

    November 2015 E. coli cases[edit]The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on December 21 that five more people became ill after eating at two Chipotle restaurants located in Kansas and Oklahoma in late November. Preliminary DNA fingerprinting results appear to point that the new cases were infected with a different strain of Shiga toxin-producing E. coli O26. Scientists are waiting the results of the more definitive whole genome sequencing results to determine if this outbreak is genetically related to the E. coli outbreak that started in Oregon and Washington in late October and thus an extension of that outbreak. The agency has not yet determined which food is responsible for the outbreak.[173] The Food and Drug Administration reported that they are trying to determine how the bacteria in these cases, along with the earlier Oregon, Washington, and other multi-state cases, might have been propagated through the food supply chain.[174]

    December 2015 norovirus outbreak[edit]
    The closed restaurant on December 16, 2015In December 2015, 80 students at Boston College were sickened after eating at a single Chipotle restaurant. Affected students had been tested for both E. coli and norovirus in order to determine the cause of the illnesses.[175] Although it would take as long as two days before the results of more definitive tests became known, public health investigators reported that preliminary tests pointed to the presence of norovirus.[176] The health inspectors for the City of Boston had since closed this particular location on December 7 for a number of health violations that included maintaining meats at a too low of a temperature on the serving line and for allowing a sick employee to work at the time of the inspection.[177]

    On December 10, officials from the Boston Public Health Commission reported that tests had identified a single strain of norovirus that is responsible for this particular outbreak.[178] Boston Globe reported on December 10 that 141 persons were reported to have gotten ill and that some of the newer victims had not visited Chipotle before contracting the virus[179] and most likely became infected by being in close proximity to someone who had gotten ill at Chipotle, such as a roommate or dorm-mate.[178]

    • The wife wonders if this is either a move by a competitor or the first shot at “germ” warfare. Of course it is possible that management is dumb enough to think that a problem like this will just “go away”.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Granted I like the concept of sourcing “local” as much possible, and making the food as healthy as possible. But with that concept comes a huge responsibility for extremely accurate records keeping. Apparently the CDC has severely criticised Chipolte on their “sketchy” records making it almost impossible to track down the culpable farm. According to the article the CDC has yet to find the source of any of the outbreaks. Theoretically other outbreaks at different places to eat and stores should help in the investigation, unless the volume of food consumed at the restaurants uses 100% of the farms production, which I doubt. Corporate sabatoge maybe? Just like an outbreak of bio-terroism in the UK with hoof and mouth disease in 2001. Came from a release of the disease from stolen samples then broken and spread.

  11. gmanfortruth says:

    Seattle’s taxes on guns (25 bucks) and ammo (2-5 cents a round) will be a revenue disaster as gun stores are moving out. These are times when the Liberal Left have to learn the hard way.

    • Do not be too sure that it is not part of the plan. Libs have no concept of money anyway so the loss of jobs/revenue means nothing to them. By getting the gun shops out of town they just might get a few million more from O”Bama.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Judge rules that the taxes are LEGAL. I told ya so !!!!!

      Coming to the Federal Congress just as soon as the Dems gain effective control.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        One Judges ruling does not make an emergency. Geez, you really think the idiots in your neck of the woods speaks for real America? Not hardly. We are already adjusting to an idiocy the Dumbocrats try to do. We don’t buy guns or ammo. We build guns from many parts and we reload our own bullets. Let them push it underground and see how fast many of us make a fortune. ROFLMAO!

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Being able to build ghost guns is going to be a very lucrative business within ten years. There isn’t near enough gunsmith’s throughout the country as it is for regular work. Just read some of the posts here on the matter. Wait times are insane. The new guns will be sold in parts and then put together by people like me, for a fee of course. By the time government catches up, a new group will be in control and taxes will go back down. Around the government circle jerk we all go, voting for who they choose for us, pretending that there is two teams, voting on computers (this one is probably the stupidest thing people have ever allowed) and waiting for the beginning of the next circle is. At some point, enough sheople will wake up and become people and see through the nonsense, of which does little to nothing to benefit them. Soon, it will be “Shut Up and Just Pay Your Damn Taxes, You Get Your Say On Election Day”. Then what are you gonna do!?

  12. gmanfortruth says:
  13. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    Here is an early Christmas present from NASA. They’ve determined that all this stuff has actually causing cooling. Same physics but opposite results. Deja vu……what hanson said in the 70’s who became a warming advocate when his ice age didn’t pan out…..notice the reports release was AFTER the Paris accord and also the budget votes that gave Obama all his climate change money. Plenty of articles today on this reversal.

  14. gmanfortruth says:

    There is a lot of talk about a report that the Pentagon has been in rebellion with the Obama administration over Syria. It seems Obama wants to arm the Rebel’s (knowing they are ISIS TOO) and the Pentagon is giving intel to the Russians. This is going to get interesting in the upcoming year.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Oh where, oh where has Obama’s original foreign policy gone. clearly stated during his apology tour at the start of his presidency. We were not going to keep intruding into other nations, issues and self determination will be the name of the game. besides Egypt, LIbya, Syria, I will add Iraq and Afghanistan to the list. Can add the US, given that we are more divided in all ways than just about anytime in our history.

  15. gmanfortruth says:
  16. Another reason to defund Planned Parenthood! Once again, “feelings” trump logic, reason and public safety.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Ah…..the last I read on NOT telling a sexual partner of being HIV positive regardless, will get criminal charges filed against you. “Safe” sex is not foolproof. The only truly safe sex is abstinance. It’s literally attempted murder.

  17. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    To everyone here on SUFA….Have a VERY Merry Christmas. Safe travels if going anywhere.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Thanks, and back at ya.

      Stayin home this year. Shoveling/blowing snow and eating tooooo much.

  18. gmanfortruth says:
    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      My suggestion to any person who advocates a position, as stated in the article……please by all means, lead the way, either make sure you never reproduce in a form, or to save resources and distress to all the NON-caucasian people of the world, by all means go now.

  19. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah-Hope everyone has a wonderful Holiday!!

  20. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year….to all.

  21. Very interesting…..the POTUS on National TV this morning is lauding the fact that there are only 160,000 service men and women deployed over seas……the lowest since the Second World War….

    Well, I am looking at the official document that lists over seas deployments……although I am prevented from printing the actual units…..I can use a calculator….I can punch numbers as fast as anyone…..(adding….adding….punching)….(hits sub total)…..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm… seems that my calculator is a little different from that of the one Obama uses… total comes to ( drum roll, please )….370,465 personnel deployed overseas. ( Using the same terminology )…..he can’t reverse it and say…well, I meant in a combat role…because the actual number of deployed in combat is……………………74,412.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Obama is helping his girls with the new math as proposed by Arn Duncan….drum roll please….the answer is anything you want it to be.

  22. THen, I notice, with very little fanfare, the POTUS, through HDC….is starting a program to slow up the immigration of Muslims until they are better vetted and checked out. How funny is it that everybody jumped on Trump, sliced and diced him….it did not change his position, and the political winds starting favoring Trump……and now the POTUS is quietly instituting the same thing.

    And, a couple if the GOP candidates are echoing Trump on several other items that he has brought up. Trump was the cannon fodder and when the political winds favor him..then the others are trying to hijack him with “minor” changes.

    I find that interesting since there are some on here that have blasted Trump fro his ego, his brashness, his uncompromising attitude, his not backing down, his use of terms that everyone thinks privately……and diss him.

    I wonder how many understand that his attitude and his ego and his brash appearance and overtones have actually began to change public opinion from political correctness back to telling it like it is. I am seeing a change of attitude among people once again…..

    It is ok to profile….it is ok to be wary of blacks wearing is ok the be wary of women in head scarves and muslims in and around malls and things. It is ok to wonder about a skin head carrying a rifle….it is ok to profile Mexicans driving pickups and surmise that they are illegal..they usually are, It is ok to not change a rule to accomodate a “minority position”…..It is ok, especially in Texas, to profile all Mexicans as illegal and dangerous since 71% of the rapes and murders in Texas in the last two years are committed by……illegal Mexicans/Hispanics. ( and, no, it is not because the Sheriff;s and the gendarmes are only picking on Mexicans )…..

    There is a reason that the Mall of America and the malls in Chicago are being shut down…and soon to be malls in Georgia and Florida…..but you will not see that in the Galleria Malls in Dallas, Houston, or San Antonio…and if you do,,,,it will only happen once.

    Trump is changing the landscape without even being elected…..I have no problems with this.

    • I agree with you. I think Trump has done some good. The even though Carson and Cruz are saying some of the same things, they cannot break through the MSM barriers to be heard. Trump is obnoxious enough to get attention. Still the MSM distorts his words but more people are listening to him directly and bypassing the distortion. Still we need more people to ignore the MSM to make better progress.

      I have come to the conclusion that we need a new libertarian/conservative/small government party. The RINOs are to far gone to be redeemable.

    • Guess Trump remembers…..”Damn the torpedoes Gridley. Full speed ahead!”

  23. Just got back from Mass. Spent the evening with AF son # 2, his wife and little Nicholas. Joe leaves the end of the month for his fourth deployment to the sandbox. We are fortunate because he will be in the UAE for the next five months. Nonetheless, this is his first deployment as a husband and Dad. Jesus, as an old fart it gets tougher and tougher to see this.

    May God Bless you all on this Day of days. Pastor got it right for a change tonight when he actually said that the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago heralded in a new age, an age when all men were equal in the eyes of god. CEO or Plumber or street sweeper. We all have the same value and the same ultimate potential.

    Merry Christmas to All!

  24. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    Since Stephen brought up the interesting sights in DC about the guys wearing these sort of androgenous pants. Lately I’ve noticed them as folks are walking by the house. The young fashion concience guys are wearing girls pants. These go way beyond retro clothes. Even way back the Italian guys never dreamt of such a thing. Ladies with spray painted jean was one thing, but men. The only thing missing are the pointy toed shoes with enhanced heels. “scarpe italiani” I’ll leave the joke of the coachroaches aside….It’s CHRISTMAS.

  25. Just A Citizen says:


    • You forgot- and to all a good night, cause I know you’re not still up. Merry Christmas JAC! And Merry Christmas to all my SUFA friends.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Anita my dear, I was in fact up late this AM. Presents under the tree and stuffing stockings. Remember, I have a 23 year old “child” who woke me at 6 am to tell me Santa Clause had come last night. It is so fun seeing the excitement in his face.

        • Merry Christmas little JAC. Got to see the same enthusiasm with my granddaughter this year. 3yrs old now and very much hip to the majic of Christmas. My 17/18 yr old boys? Pffft! I had to go through banging on bedroom doors to get them vertical. Drag! 🙂

  26. gmanfortruth says:

    MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone! 🙂

  27. Merry Christmas SUFA! Hope everyone has a safe and happy New Year.

  28. Dale A. Albrecht says:

    Food for thought, especially after the holidays. Most of us remember back in the days when MOST people were relatively fit, regardless of age. Weight problems and obesity was found in but a few. Diabetics were rare… item Krauthammer forgot was the affect of a NO to low fat actually diet exacebating weight problems.

  29. Just A Citizen says:

    Time to clear the fog of eggnog from your brains and get back to the hard work of THINKING.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Clearing the fog will begin after Jan 1 2016. Have to ease into this article.

      I have some great Gary Trudeau cartoons from 1979 after Khomeni completed control of Iran. How a person such as Trudeau can vilify Charly Hebo, when his sarcasism knows no bounds, especially of people or policies he disagrees with. But then his comments make sense. His freedom of speech is just, but those that oppose his thought are to be silenced.

  30. Just A Citizen says:

    Ammunition to be used against your friendly Progressive families:

    Let me give you a short version on a slightly different issue. All the data in the world claiming the Affordable Care Act a success is pure rubbish because the Act is IMMORAL.

    Claiming it good because of the numbers who sign up is equivalent to claiming certain murder good because more are killing, or that theft is good because of the number who participate.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      What group of people does the ACA hurt worst? The people below a certain income? NO, they’re eligble for a subsidy or premium payment in full, 50% of the working/voting age people. The 1%’ers, it does, but in the long run, doesn’t matter. They make more than enough money. It’s the group in between that got shafted. Not only do you have to continue paying for your children LONG after they usually are gone and done with school. You get no subsidies or premium assistance, given we usually make enough money to not qualify in any form. Generally the group that used to work for companies, but are now outsourced or contractors to the very job that you used to do. Only you pay your own way and every two years, or an end of a job like program contract you very well may be on the street again. Facing an even hungrier group of young graduates with more debt and the cycle spirals faster and deeper. The only benefactor…..the banks and creditors and the government. Bernenke said it loud and clear…..this nation economy lives on credit and thrives on consumption. We need to get the people spending.

      The cars and vehicles I see all day long are expensive and loaded. Way more than most peoples needs or capability to pay for. And new. The average one is more in price than the house my Dad bought in Hidden Hills CA when we moved there. $32K. The line of fine new vehicles at the food shelter blows you away. The Iphone and their kin, plus the service, that’s not cheap, yet everyone has one glued to their ears. Even kids.

  31. Finally as clear as the nose on your face. Listening to Bernie on “Face the Nation”.

    Trump and he are in perfect harmony which he admits. They both recognize the ongoing destruction of the Middle Class. Both are enemies of corporate greed which has done so much damage.

    Bernie’s solutions are to restore the middle class by providing them with things like free education, free family leave, free healthcare. This would remove those financial pressures from their backs.

    Trump wants to provide them with good jobs.

    The choice, my dear reader will rest with you.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      “Destruction of the middle class” = fallacy, ridiculous, political rhetoric, bull shit!!

      When we accept ;manipulative garbage as truth we allow ourselves to manipulated.

      Time to wake the hell up.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I think destruction is just a big word to try and make a point. Impoverishing would probably not work as well, although it could be statistically proven. Looking at simple things like the labor participation rate, one could imagine that many who were Middle Class have probably fallen from their little perch. I know that homes for sale in the wealthier middle class neighborhoods I travel periodically are on the rise and growing. For sale signs litter these neighborhoods. These people are moving to lower cost homes/apartments. Of course, many lived above their means, via debt. This is coming back to bite people. Maybe we can call much of this “self destruction”?

        • I go with G on this one. There just are not enough good jobs with long term prospects . The combination of automation, cheap labor, and export of entire industries leaves you what?

          20 years ago, before the melt down, we were all supposed to transition to a :”service economy”. Well that turned out to be 75 year old guys as greeters in Walmart and 55 year old guys in “fulfillment” centers running their legs off on concrete floors eight hours a day with a salary slightly above minimum wage filling your Amazon orders. Don’t meet the quota once your knees go, and you are out the door.

          We know there is inflation no matter what lies we are told. Now of course it is masked by the drop in oil and gas prices (appreciated) but it is only masked. Anybody who hits the supermarket once a week has seen the packaging shrink (pound of coffee is now 10 oz, Pound of hot dogs is now 12 oz., Half gallon of OJ is now 59 oz and maybe cut with apple juice) and prices rise. Salaries, are flat or declining. Who the hell ever even heard of student loan debt thirty or forty years ago? You went into debt for a house or car, that was pretty much it. 84 months on a car loan now! I suspect one of my kids who beats cars to death (the daughter) is still paying off her first car (she is on #3).

          Even if I accept JAC’s premise, you still have the very same choice “free stuff” or better and more numerous jobs.

          As an afterthought. There is a very strong possibility that if Hillary gets bad advice and takes on the Donald before her nomination, she will lose it. Debbie doublya Shultz warns the “D” not to take on Bill. Donald will remind us of Bill’s unsavory past as the rapist in Chief in a much less forgiving time on the issue. Young people will not be so amused as their elders were by Bill’s schoolboy like pranks with Gennifer Flowers, Juanita Broderick or Paula Jones. The boyish charm is long gone. The guy looks like a fugitive from Auschwitz these days with good hair.

          • Dale A. Albrecht says:

            In ’85 when economists proudly proclaimed that we are to be a “service” economy versus a “manufacturing” economy. Making stuff is for dolts. We’re just going to handle stuff, pass it through, charge a fee. Little or no investment. We are seeing the affects of that proclamation. As SK and Gman noted. What was the middle class? Tradesmen, small business owners, “rocket scientists” Plumbers, etc. Macdonalds in no way was ever deemed to be a living wage, except the owner/manager. Everyone else it was date money and gas money. Manufacturing managers, even line workers made good money.

            The geniuses in IBM labs sure were geniuses, but rarely did the product work. They had their heads so far up in the ozone, they were so smart they were stupid. It took sometimes up to two more years “out” with us manufacturing “dummies” to figure it out and actually make the “announced” product actually work. IBM started moving us dummies into the labs to direct the design paths to shorten the cycle, not moving the lab guys into manufacturing.

            It takes 20 years plus to actually get a new plane flying, that is is it even gets built because the powers to be, say….wait but we’ve got some new ideas. F-15’s flying since the early 70’s, a early 60’s design, still it in the top ranks of fighters. Today, we get the F-35 which will go down as a bigger lemon than the F-111 Aardvark. And obcenely more expensive….our space program is virtually non existant. The things that gave the US pride in itself and a can do spirit are history. It’s outsourced. Even the Russians during their collapse of communism and their economy….never gave up the exploration of space and sea.

            My Dad, always said that 1969 was the last year, no matter how much he made over the last 20 years of his IBM career, was the last year of growth. After that it was just maintain the status quo, no matter what his income increased to.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            “The combination of automation, cheap labor, and export of entire industries leaves you what?”

            Greater wealth and a much higher standard of living.

            The western world has been increasing mechanization and increasing cheap labor for centuries. The absolute truth is that this has resulted in lower costs of production, thus making ever more products affordable to ever more people, even without raising their annual incomes.

            You cannot destroy something you cannot identify nor define precisely. In other words, you cannot destroy that which is fictional or a mere concept without substance.

            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              The automation and cheaper production has lead to also over-production. With over-production comes an ever expanding need to sell that product, or slow production and all the negatives involved. At the top tier you have those that can afford the product with NO problem. Then comes those that usually have no problem but issues may occur. But credit is required. when that group is exhausted then come the tier that has no business, buying those commodity products, much less houses, cars etc. That was one of four major componants of the crash in ’29. It certainly was part and parcel out latest meltdown, but in this case it was government enabled. What we see now also, even though products are suppose to be “better” they are obsoleted in 2 years as opposed to 7. Electronics is one of those products. Just to get people to consume more and delve deeper into credit and debt. Credit and debt is a stated policy of the Fed. As a private bank, they make a fortune printing money out of thin air.

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Your using left wing Marxist rhetoric.

                Over production??? How the hell do you know that?? Too many goods usually results in LOWER PRICES…………..the CONSUMER WINS.

                So over production is bad but cutting production to line up with consumption is also bad???

                Explain why idiots who borrow against their future for a few baubles today is my concern or should be part of Govt. policy. So when they get no more credit they STOP BUYING and have to get their act together. This is BAD also???

                Products today become obsolete because NEW PRODUCTS replace them. The issue of built in obsolescence was eliminated when Japan took our markets with better QUALITY.

                Besides…………….. so what if a product breaks in 4 years instead of 10. Other than a great chance to bitch about the “good ol’ days” what real difference does it make??? You pay a price for a product that you know will last only 4 years. You get what you paid for.

                I will not argue against the fallacy and corruption that is the Federal Reserve Banking system. Its goals may not be as you stated, but its affect is the same and it certainly makes money on issuing money or debt or eliminating money and debt. No matter what, the FED makes money.

              • One of the guys who used to work for me as a super of a 75 unit building was complaining about a showerbody he installed in an apartment. Back in the day it was made here by Gerber. This fellow, a Cuban immigrant in his late 70’s and spry as a twenty year old had just finished cleaning up the mess created (top floor of course) when the brass failed and the lousy NYC 40PSI water pressure caused the fixture to split open. His comment, “Cheap Chinese Junk”. Most likely impure or contaminated brass. Same price as the good ole USA product used to be. Same mark up for the store and distributor. Now we paid for an importer and of course twenty cents to the assembly worker with the remainder going to The Peoples Liberation Army. What we lost was a job or two or a thousand in Cedar Rapids.

                JAC, exactly where do you think these new jobs are for an ever increasing population? Housing is not cheaper, food certainly isn’t, big ticket items like cars are not cheaper, energy is temporarily cheaper but that is probably an aberration.

                The cheap Chinese junk is cheaper (a the moment) and while people stay home from the jobs they don’t have they can do their bread and circus thing on a 53 inch TV. You cannot eat your I-phone nor drive your Netflix connection. You could though possibly with your family, sleep in the cardboard boxes the junk all comes in under a viaduct.

                I see this as being the last generation that will live reasonably well on the grid if things do not change. Back when I worked Harlem, Central Brooklyn and the So. Bronx, I saw the ordinary welfare recipient scramble to survive and go off the grid. The welfare housing allowance and food and clothing allowances paid the basics but anything above that came from the all cash underground economy. I have four kids all in their thirties now. One a graduate engineer who worries that he will be replaced by an imported worker. The other, a plant manager for a petrochemical company with a Masters in Science which will be sold foreign in the not too distant future. The third is a medical professional also with a Masters in Science, she will probably be ok except there is a movement to bring in more people under the H-1 visa program who could compete. The last is currently a VA administrator tasked with recruiting and vetting medical staff. He has both a JD in law as well as a Masters in Public Health and is a graduate of the Command and Staff college at Leavenworth. When I talk to my kids, not a single one is sure that they will spend the rest of their careers doing what they are doing. There is also not one who thinks they will have what I have. I am a very lazy guy with a BA in Psychology who never had the inclination to go back for more who managed to cobble together, with minimum effort a reasonable middle, middle class existence. Spent 21 years on one job and almost 16 on another. Always worked hard and smart at what I was doing but never wanted to be CEO. Hard and Smart does not matter anymore nor is there any loyalty at the Corporate level which is what finally got me retired.

  32. gmanfortruth says:
  33. Just A Citizen says:


    You cannot judge the future using criteria from your PAST.

    Imagine what the wagon wheel makers felt about the future of the nation when the automobile and then rubber tires came along.

    We Americans howl about Govt intervention in our lives but we want Govt. to protect our cushy little MONOPOLIES from competition from others.

    Ask yourself, how is it that urban America continues to build and sprawl and those “out of work” people you cite continue to live larger than anyone called middle class in our younger years. You say they will collapse………….. people have been predicting that for thirty years now, yet they keep on getting more. How is that??

    Maybe there are in fact more jobs than you realize, especially for those willing to move around.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Alway willing to move around. Owning a home is a anchor though. Rent, and you can pick up and go in a month.

      Have you tried getting a work visa in the EU, or China, Or India…..They’re policy is they’re # 1 1st. fill all needs and maybe if all the gods in heaven shine. Hey, I’d even take a cut of a 1/10th of what I made here by moving to Slovakia. But even those jobs got outsourced to India, by IBM and at&t to cheaper labor. I’ve worked all over this country, Italy, Netherlands and the UK. Single person is sort of OK, family try asking a military person what moving about 2 years here 1 year, absent for months. IBM stood for “I’ve been moved” I have no long term friends. Just aquaintences.

      Oh as a by the way….the only job “after retirement at 60″ i was directly offered was with an Italian Shipping Company, MSC. In Manhattan NY at $26K. At 60-64, which I am now impossible, Maybe if you still live at home 1st job in one room or a box at penn station, had friends still in Manhattan, all passed away”. My parents neighbors in NY had 3 kids. The oldest was in their 30’s down to mid 20’s. ALL still lived at home. They worked but didn’t stand a chance of living on their own, unless they MOVED to maybe east god knows where. Living in the old neighborhood was out of the question.
      Even back in the 70’s the only job you could get in the Netherlands as a foriegner was a job that NOBODY would take.

  34. gmanfortruth says:

    Just an observation. There seems to be a disconnect between JAC, out West in Idaho, and Dale and SK, both on the East Coast. I’m further inland, closer to the rust belt in what used to be coal mining country. My area is more known for lumber and fracking these days, with fracking dependent on prices. The lumber industry seems to be continuing on a constant path, with tree hauling trucks a constant on the roads every day.

    Back to the disconnect, LOL. It seems that out in JAC land things are different than in the Eastern States, economically speaking. Maybe that is due to the significant population differences between the two places, but I can sure see a difference in the economic abilities of people today versus 15 years ago. One thing I bet is true for everyone, far too many are living above their means. How can I say that? I pay attention. Peoples cars lined up at the local churches to get free food handouts make me muse often if these people really need the free food they are getting. Or are their debt bills so bad, there isn’t much left for food. One day I’ll stop and ask a few of them, just to find out.

    Cheaply made products are not the boon JAC portrays. Yes, one can get a faucet for the kitchen for less than 20 bucks. Yes, that product will fail in short time and need replaced. By the time one continues to get one faucet replaced 3 times, he/she could have just bought an expensive one, still made in America, that will last a decade or more. But, having a cheap one laying around for an emergency isn’t such a bad thing 🙂

    Yes, I do see a disconnect. Not sure why either.

    • In “Beyond this Horizon” a quick, fun read, Robert Heinlein is talking about a world where the government pays to have cars manufactured just to roll them in the smelter. The whole purpose being to keep up the appearance of employment,. This is also the famous book where you have a totally armed “polite” society.

      Heinlein jumped around from being a pure Socialist to a wide eyed libertarian in his career. It is fun to see how he got there in his writings.

      JAC is right to be concerned about “alarmism” however history tells us that things DO change. So we may have come back from the edge in the past but again, where are those jobs? An 84 month car loan is indicative of something as much as the food stamp percentages are. My buddy, the long haul truck driver cum printing plant manager cum loan officer railed ten years ago against 60 month car loans. I believe Bobby’s comment was “Are they nuts?”

      • gmanfortruth says:

        My first thought about the 84 month car loans…..the illusion of prosperity.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          YES….”Illusion of wealth” Used to buy the cars outright. Now it’s fueled by debt. Only to keep the production lines running due to over production of a product that a limited amount of people truly can afford. All bubbles burst.

      • Dale A. Albrecht says:

        In the old Soviet Union, there was a documented case of all parts of the production were making their goals. The business was making ball bearing. They were “rolling” them out by the ton. One problem was that they were not well made and could not be used. They made their sales quota by selling them to the metal scrap dealer, who sold the scrap to smelter who remelted the metal. Sold the ingots to the bearing manufacturer and the circle continued. Everybody was employed and all the boxes were checked. History will tell us by great example of the effect of a “service” only and non manufacturing economy.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      with working on the restoration of the porch of the house I rent,1843. I can see, touch and feel the differences in materials used in repairs over the years. 1) obviously orginally the wood was “old growth” The wood itself is generally still in great shape. the original nails, iron, are generally still very strong and once you get below the surface oxidation they are as bright and shiny as the day they were hammered in. Over the past 170 years the porch has been subjected to moves, drunk drivers and neglect. The NEW modern nails and screws since the mid 70’s and absolutely since the last 7 years are completely disenigrated. The only thing holding the wood in place is the paint. All the new wood since the drunk crashed into the porch has completely rotted. THE current owner spent close to $350K on restoration when he bought the place 9 years ago. He was not wanting to spend more. I can get old wood from the original era, but is cost prohibitive. i am using cypress for the repairs. swamp wood and extremely oily and rot resistant. Mid priced. if the situation calls for it, i use pegs and no metal. If I need to use a screw, I use silicon bronze. Nails, I just hope for the best and insure water has NO way to get to it.

      there is a shovel at my parents house. THe mailman delivered it in woodstock NY back in ’57. It still is in excellant shape. Today, buy a shovel from Lowes and in 60 years you will have replaced it several times spending overall much more money, even though each unit is cheaper. I have a radial arm saw made in 1955 by Dewalt. not only did my father in law use it in his contracting business, but I’ve used it for 30 years, 3 full house restorations and now the porch. The phrase “penny saved, pound foolish” comes to mind. Products yes are be built cheaper by the modern production methods. BUT they are also usually not being built as well to keep production going,be cause normal growth demand will not keep up with the manufacturing capability. I will make a big exception. Cars. fun to be able to work on them youself, but what crap compared to todays cars. All the fancy frills and government mandated features drives the cost today.

      IT’s stopped rainings o back to work

      • gmanfortruth says:

        YES, but we can buy much more………substandard stuff. The illusion of prosperity helping to keep the illusion of choice alive.

      • Funny you should mention that. I just retired an basic electric alarm clock, GE, that stopped working. Made in Mass. Dad bought it in 1962.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          I do a great deal of wood working. I have never bought a circular saw, still use a Craftsman I was given by my father several decades ago. Same with my mitre saw. I’ve watched people replace there equipment thrice over in just the last 10 years. It’s a shame, but I really think people have fallen for the illusion.

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          got you beat. I have an 1881 american “kitchen” clock. it has an alarm. I did very minor calibration work to it and it keeps perfect time as measured by modern systems. The only thing i have to do is wind it every 7-8 days. THE modern clocks I have to change the batteries every few months and continue paying my internet connection and cell phone fees.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        You guys keep using the same flawed arguments.

        You assume a change in perceived quality amounts to a corresponding change in value to the customer.

        I know several contractors who have chosen to buy the cheaper tools and replace them often. Why would they do this??? CASH FLOW. You see VALUE in this case includes their need for positive cash flows and the desire to not incur long term debt for tools.

        You want to compare apples to apples then compare the modern price of equal quality tools of the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s with today.

        Better quality compound miter saws exist, for example, with a price tag over $600.00. Yet you can buy a cheaper version in the box stores for about $125 during the holidays. Now apply interest on the today purchase of 600 vs buying a new saw at 125 every three years.

        Let me do it for you.

        600 at 4% for 9 years = 853.98 future cost.

        125 at 4% for 3 years = 140.60
        125 at 4% for 3 years = 140.60
        125 at 4% for 3 years = 140.60
        TOTAL cost of 3 saws = 421.82 future cost.

        So after nine years the three saws have cost you less than HALF the better saw. And during that time your profit margin was BIGGER.

        I most certainly understand the attachment and desire for old tools made of good metal. But it is wrong to assume the plastic stuff is not as good a value. What is the long term cost, using proper NPV analysis and does the lower quality get the job done.

        • If the contractor is using these as tools used by lower skilled employees, your analysis may be OK. I have a Craftsman saw that ain’t worth s–t. The base plate warped almost immediately, it is unbalanced in use (handle too far from the blade and too high on the saw). Mechanically it will run for years. As a quality tool that one can do good work with it is crap. I replaced it with a Dewalt. Much better although more expensive.

          Many products today are not only cheap but very poorly engineered. The designers are not using their own products or they would know this. A few years ago I bought a manual can opener because the electrics always break. Used it for some time but always had difficulty opening cans. Got tired of that and bought a new one at the grocery store. It was worse. Had to resort to my Swiss Army knife. Went to Amazon and found the best quality opener they had. Much much better. The quality is worth it and eliminates the frustration of fighting poor tools.

          Dale, the difference between new and old lumber may be the way it is dried. Douglas fir from the west is kiln dried before shipping east to reduce weight. The same lumber purchased here is so wet it squirts when you drive a nail in. Leave the lumber in the sun for a few days and you can make a propeller out of it. Old lumber was naturally dried.

          If wet lumber is used and then sealed with paint, it will rot faster.

          In IL in the 50-70s we used to get Sterling nails made in Sterling IL.

          • Dale A. Albrecht says:

            I only buy all my lumber from specialty lumber yards. ALL the woods are well “cured”. I really like working with “old growth Heart Pine” The smell of the pitch is refreshing. Plus the wood is technically a hard wood. In my old house in VT, I had a box of bits. to pre-drill holes for nailing. Cut a piece and it smelled fresh. Properly cared for and there isn’t a termite or carpenter ant that will touch it. I made a tabletop a few years ago that was from a plank that was 3′ wide by 12′ long by 1 1/2 ” thick. It was from PI during the WWII time frame and a marine brought it home. He never did anything with it. I forget the name of the wood, but today it can only be found in small trees and is used in the dashboards of high end cats like Mercedes etc. Recently I picked up several hundred board feet of mahogany that was found in the rafters of an old railroad engine repair building here in town. It made the most beautiful cap rails up on the balconies on my 3rd floor. And before someone makes a wise ass comment, I can still hit a nail on the head and not need an nailer and compressor. However, they are nice when you are doing lots of construction.

            Years ago an old friend in Maine participated in the salvage of the LAST American clipper ship. It also was of wood. It was beached in the Falkland Islands since the mid 1800’s. They only brought back the bow and some portion of the forward part of the ship. They said it was like cutting into NEW pine. The resin was still good and sticky.

          • Dale A. Albrecht says:

            The idea was also in the ’80’s was that we would do the design and intellectual cool stuff and NOT get your hands dirty. One of the most intregal parts of IBM design teams years ago was 1) pull in some manufacturing people into the design team. 2) Pull in the Field Engineers. Not only did they daily work on the equipment but they of all people met with the client more than any sales person or designer ever did. Once IBM outsourced FE that link broke and the end began. If you are “above” all that the products designed are usually pieces of shit…..look at the last several releases of Microsofts products. IBM has failed on so many State contracts its insane. They think they know, but they don’t. Ask D13 on how IBM’s performance was on Texas contracts. The lawsuits are still probably going on for breach of contract.

            Back in the late 90’s at&t bought the networking division of IBM called AGNS. At a minimum it took close to 5 years to make some sense of the networks much less make them profitable. Literally in every country, state, city they used whatever naming convention, and tools and databases. You had no idea if you actually got all the contractually obligated data from a client. It was painful. But hey this is the new world do what you want. No organization, Freedom rules. It was anarchy. To totally make my point in 2010, we were still trying to break the clutches of IBM and absolute cluster fuck in some of those clients, One they took 5,000 employees from the customer worldwide. As we were to take the contract over, we could do it with maybe 50. My task was to eliminate all the rest. But the EU has rules. No can do.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          JAC, your calculation only deals with the price of the product. Maybe that might work for a large contractor with numerous workers, and OK but not expert type of finished product, but it isn’t necessarily cost effective to an individual or small business who’s products are of the finest quality. It also fails to account for the time (time has value) that it takes to replace the product , inflation, plus lost work time when the product fails and a work stoppage occurs. Then add travel expenses to go to the correct store, which may be tens of miles away and it throws your cute little calculation into the “maybe it’s better to just get a good product to begin with” line of thinking. In short, your idea may work in the inner city where there is a Home Depot around the corner, but probably isn’t a great idea when the store is 20 miles away. Your calculation fails to include weather related delays as well. In short, not all theories can be calculated like its an exact science.

          Wood. Most of my basic construction projects will use rough cut Hemlock, from the Amish. It’s life span is about100 years and doesn’t rot, even when unfinished and outdoors. For furniture projects, I use hardwoods that are cut, dried and almost smooth, but not quite like the fancy stuff at your local lumber yard. Also, from the Amish, you get what you ask for, be it oak, maple or any number of pine types. Hemlock, while a type of pine, is not a good furniture wood, at least for what I like to do. While I’ll use store bought if I’m doing a project for another person who wants to pick their own wood, I won’t use it on my personal stuff. Main reason….you get what you pay for. In the case of wood, my cost is cheaper and my product is better.

          Conclusion. To me, time is the most valuable asset one has. Project delays are both annoying and expensive. I prefer to not waste such a valuable asset on substandard products that will only lead to delays and frustration. By the time I replace a single tool 3 times, versus just buying the better product, the cost grows with each event. You didn’t think this out very well, better luck next time. 🙂

          • It doesn’t have to be an either/or question, there’s room for everyone.
            If everyone bought a tool that lasts forever, there would only be a set number of tools to be made, so tool makers are out of business.
            JAC’s angle keeps the tool makers in business, the truck drivers, the hardware store, the gas station all get a three fer.
            Then there’s my vacuum cleaner story. Bought a $300 Bissell. POS. Replaced with a $300 Hoover. POS. Replaced with a $40 Dirt Devil that is still running strong after 10 years.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              There will always be cheap and expensive brands of most everything we buy. Some of us buy quality products because we want to produce quality products. Some folks like to go cheap and sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Other chase brand names. Sometimes it takes some trial and error to get things right, as with your experience. I was expressing that JAC’s analogy was lacking in reality because it didn’t include things like loss of work time, travel costs and inflation. Your analogy is more realistic as the selling of cheap products (which is exactly what I said originally) is part of the illusion of prosperity. I wonder how many people ended up happy with their Yugo’s? 🙂

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Your criticism of my “analogy” is erroneous. I clearly stated that both get the job done. If you are going to claim that time used to go buy a new saw every three years is significant then lets see how you justify that claim.

                And the 4% rate is the adjustment for inflation, along with other values of time. It is called the “discount rate”.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                I guess that people use substandard tools to get the job done, and others use quality tools and use quality products to get the job done…..RIGHT. Some people don’t mind shopping for replacement tools far more often than needed. But hey, it keeps the economy going. Remember, this all began with the term “Destroying the Middle Class”. I actually agreed with you, it’s just more political nonsense like the war on women, racism, islamaphobia and all the other BS that is shoved down the peoples throats in order to keep the illusions going. I think it would be safe to say that when all of it comes crumbling down and the illusions are fully exposed, the Ruling Elite Class will cease to exist. They know this as well.

                Back to the Middle Class issue, The Middle Class has been reported to no longer be the majority of economic class’s (for lack of a better term). I still shake my head going past these free food give aways at local church’s. Many cars are not what one would drive if truly poor to the point of needing charity. Then SK spoke up on the car loans that are far longer than in our younger days, making them “affordable”. I simply concluded that we are living in a country that used to be very prosperous and now that prosperity is simply an illusion. After 2008, I don’t think it’s wrong to say that this country’s banking industry could fail any day. When that day comes, the illusion is exposed.

            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              But Anita….you have to use the vacuum more than once a month….I personally have only bought 2 since being on my own. Usually a dustmop or broom and pan are sufficient. My folks actually had and still used the 1st vacuum I remember. It was relegated to the garage clean-up but still functioned. The refrigerator they got as a wedding present in ’49 still is in use in a basement to keep beer colder in PA. Granted the modern ones are more efficient, but with it’s use and location still has value

              • Hoooold up! I have two teen boys with friends a million and my place is a continual hang out. Add two labradors, the yellow one who’s favorite past time is rolling in the dirt. Don’t forget the dirty tennis ball that always makes it way back in the house. The vacuum runs at least every other day. If I miss 1 day of sweeping, the hair that collects in front of the cold air return is embarrasing. So, yeah. Just had to clarify that to the planet! 🙂

              • While I’m rambling… I was also raised here with 7 brothers and sisters. Our dishes were hand washed after every meal. The dishes were not considered done until the kitchen floor was swept. So by that standard, I’m slacking on my sweeping/vacuuming chores. 🙂

              • Dale A. Albrecht says:

                We’d party after the “Game” at somebody’s house. The house was cleaned usually better after the party than before. Before the party was done, we hauled out the cleaning stuff, as though we were never there We’d always be welcome later. Best ones were at Peter Marshalls house “Hollywood Squares” Totally catered, buffets, stay as long as you want. Anyone toked up or brought booze. The dudes with muscle tossed you over the gate.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        If you can read pdf files you will find this of interest. Modern wood is not more prone to rot than old wood. The species and heart vs. sapwood will not vary much from 100 or 200 years ago. Now “straight” and ability to stay straight is a different matter.

        I have not seen any studies but there is a possibility that faster growing plantation trees would rot faster than slower growing trees of the same specie. Wild grown trees tend to have periods of much slower growth than plantation stock. But they also have much more heart wood if harvested at large diameters.,d.cGc

        • Dale A. Albrecht says:

          JAC….All I know is the wood I’ve been working with on the historical houses I’ve owned or involved with….OR boats for that matter. Right now, I’m removing and tossing every piece of “modern” wood used in the last porch restoration. It is rotten to the core. Where they got it I have no idea. Probably Lowes. 100% of the NEW fasteners are totally gone. This is within 7 years. The only time I can get equal grade of old growth pine originating from near here is to get salvage from old mills and resaw it after extremely time consuming metal removal. Priced out of what the owner will spend. Or if an old tree comes down in a storm, a local mill gets it and custom mills the wood for restorations. I used that tree in my last house.

          As for tools. A compound miter saw today is very nice. Also much safer. However, my saw will also do everything the new ones will do plus some more cuts that require a different saw in todays world. There is a commercial custom lumber yard in Raleigh. Heaven forbid, they have a saw just like mine, being used harder than I’d ever dream of. All the “good” contractors I know and work with all buy good tools. Not ones that wear out just to replace. The key is transportable and easy set up for on site work. I’ll still stand by my experience… cheap and you will spend more in the long run. Usually it’s a tool that you will have to be careful with lest you break it.

          Obsolecence….I do a lot of antique negative/photo restoration. I have a scanner, printer, fax, copier, has all the network capabilities, takes all the chips a memory cards. Made by Epson. Not their most expensive, but not cheap. The print quality was and still is extremely good. It also depends how I scan the work. Product is very dependable and NEVER failed. That does Epson no good. They obsoleted it by making one simple change. The ink modules. They are not making them anymore. Maybe someone will pick up the licence and make a new business. I doubt it.

          Corporations and businesses used to be pretty crappy places to work. Times changed and they actually cared about the employee some. Back in the ’75 timeframe IBM was shifting their Kingston operations to NC at Research Triangle Park (RTP) It took years for the migration. Why? Kingston so depended on that long term site, with vendors and subcontractors, if they’d pull out in one shot the area would crash. Yes it cost the company more, but it caused NO ill will and Kingston was able to shift. Jump ahead 20 years to Fishkill NY and their semiconductor fabricator. Huge modern facility. One day all entrances were blocked by security and people were routed to the cafeteria, There as they were identified they received their severence checks and a hearty FU & GOOD-BYE. 12000 people in one shot. The entire market, housing etc collapsed. I drove through two years ago and people are still angry as hell and the area is only a glimmer of the properity it had.

          At At&T we worked extremely hard to improve the quality and productivity of our new division. Every employee at the site was an engineer, BS or better. Now at every productivity improvement they’d instantly lay off the “saving”. However, as the service expanded those that remained were extremely stressed due to overwork. The executives would within 2 months try re-employing those engineers they just laid off. The service was expanding so fast all savings was chewed up. We’d get a new set of improvements in and they’d lay off. only to repeat over and over. Usually after the 3rd layoff the guys never came back, Or as better work came available they’d walk in and hand in their resignation. I’d say to my boss a VP, because he was extremely upset with the resignations. I said, you’d lay them off if the board and finance said to do it in the company’s self interest. He said Yes. I then said, why then can the employee operate in the same mode. I lasted 15 years. Only two had been longer with the division. I hit retirement age with combined age and service, When I started as a consultant brought in by NJ the division was losing $250M a year. The team was given 1 year to break even. We did. When I left, the revenue was $60B Not bad.

          You have your experiences, I have mine worldwide. We can go around in circles and discuss pro’s con’s good bad. Because there are good points. Take a Tonka toy. The ad was an elephant stood one foot on a dump truck, These toys would get handed down generations. Maybe a new paint job but they held up. Today, maybe they’d last until spring. If people think that’s good so be it, I DO NOT.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            If your new wood is a southern pine variety then it surely rotted faster than the older wood. Because the older wood was probably not southern pine.

            While eastern white pine was not on the list I expect it would be as good as western white pine. Again, heartwood of the best species should last 20 years in humid South east climates.

            I would be willing to bet that some of the rot you witness on newer wood remodeling is due to the inferior exterior coatings. Taking the lead out of paint reduced durability in my experience. And the move from oil to water based exterior stains and paints.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Just curious JAC, have you ever worked with Hemlock?

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Yes! In fact Hemlock is sold with grand fir (white fir) as Hem/Fir in the lumber markets. Especially the stud and dimension markets (2×4, 2×6, 2×8).

                I have never used it for “fine” work. Mostly for framing, or supports in boxes or cabs.

              • Just A Citizen says:


                P.S. For structural needs in framing I use Douglas-fir. It is stronger than Hemlock or white fir. Pine is good as well out here, but a waste of money. Pine, both ponderosa and white are more expensive.

                The best Douglas-fir for decking, porches or other outdoor use is “Inland” Douglas-fir. It is very hard to come by these days but is much stronger than the coastal variety. Tighter grain from slow growing conditions.

                There is also a significant difference between “Inland” and “coastal” western red cedar. The “Inland” variety is more durable as decking.

            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              The older wood in New bern absolutely was “local” old growth long leaf pine. New Bern up until the 1920’s was a major logging and milling center and exporter, In the early twenties a major fire took out the mills and 1/3 the city. The mills are gone, never rebuilt and many of the burned out areas are still vacant. My old house in VT was absolutely built from lumber from here. The old stuff was from virgin forest. It is now rare and protected. The only time you can get “new” wood from an old tree is if it comes down in a storm. The logs are huge. Weyerhauser has lots of mills around and “plantations” If it would be let to grow for more years, but I’ve seen the cycle. Like in Oregon back when. Plant saplings, keep tending the acres, burns etc. 25 years clear cut, replant. The trees are no bigger than 10-15 inches. Not 2-3 feet.

            • Dale A. Albrecht says:

              I use “oil” based primer. Will start thinning it a bit for greater penetration. Then latex is fine as a finish coat. The other key is a bi-annual examination. Catch issues as they become visible. It doesn’t take long. Keeps a house fresh and ‘problem free. Once you think maintenance free, like Vinyl siding you are begging for major problems. Out of sight out of mind. Most people are not capable of doing the work themselves. They blanch at the labor rates of guys who know what they are doing and puch off the maintenance. Or they go with a jackleg drive by worker who usually causes more issues thanif you didn’t touch it. Just because its old doesn’t mean it was built well. There were crappy builders back when also. I maintained my house in VT very well. I took the time. My neighbor prefered to go sailboarding. Instead of a little work 2X a year, they waited and the lowest bid was 20K 25 years ago. They could have done a small section each time.

  35. gmanfortruth says:

    This should serve as a lesson to those who think taxing guns and ammo out of existence will ultimately fail. Of course, this is also an example of the lack of forethought by Leftist politicians. We will always get around the tyrannical nonsense.

    • gmanfortruth says:
      • Just A Citizen says:

        Sometimes accusations against the left that have no basis should be addressed. This is one of those times. My response in CAPS.

        Newsflash: America has a homeless problem. Actually, many are calling it a crisis or an epidemic. No matter which superlative one cares to use, I think we can all agree it’s a large problem, and each year liberals are in charge of government, the numbers of homeless increase. I DO NOT AGREE. NOT UNTIL SOMEONE CAN SHOW ME THAT THE % OF THE POPULATION HAS RISEN SUBSTANTIALLY. MORE HOMELESS, ENOUGH TO TAKE OVER BLOCKS, IS NOT EVIDENCE OF INCREASED HOMELESS WITHOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT FULL POPULATION GROWTH. THAT INCLUDES ILLEGAL ALIENS.

        Every major city in the country has seen a dramatic uptick in homelessness and the common denominator is always leftist economic policies. Whether it is at the federal, state or local level, liberals in government are the cause of the homeless disaster. OK, NICE ACCUSATION LETS SEE IF THE AUTHOR PROVIDES BACKUP!

        In downtown Los Angeles, the famous homeless area known as Skid Row now spans 50 city blocks. Reverend Andy Bales is the chief executive of the Union Rescue Mission who helps those on Skid Row. He says what is happening there is, “the worst man-made disaster in the U.S.” MORE RHETORIC. WHERE IS THE BEEF?

        The Reverend is indeed correct. Rampant homelessness is entirely man-made. KIND OF A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING “HUMAN” SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. Oh sure, there will always be a certain segment of society that are homeless by choice. They choose not to participate in the standard societal model, for want of a better term. But in days gone by, our welfare system could account for them. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?? OUR WELFARE SYSTEM “ACCOUNTED FOR THEM”??? STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT MOST OF THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE STREETS ON PURPOSE HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. PEOPLE WHO BOTH LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES PUSHED OUT OF THE MENTAL INSTITUTIONS. LIBERALS BECAUSE SUCH A LIFE WAS DEMEANING AND CONSERVATIVES BECAUSE THEY COST TO MUCH.

        But now the “system” is being overwhelmed. Fifty city blocks, the size of the aforementioned Skid Row, is larger than many towns in America and the largest increase in homelessness is in our nation’s capital where the number of homeless families has gone up by 60%. CITATIONS PLEASE!!

        But the worst is, as one might expect, New York City. The department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) claims that the state of New York has over 75,000 homeless, and the Socialist mayor Bill de Blasio’s NYC accounts for over 58,000 of the total. SO WE ARE CITING “LIBERAL” POLITICAL MACHINES THAT FEED OFF THE WELFARE SYSTEM AS THE SOURCE OF HOW MANY NEED WELFARE. ANYONE ELSE SEE A POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN THE DATA SOURCE?

        According to the Wall Street Journal, the city spends well over $1 billion annually on homeless programs and plans to spend an additional $1 billion over the next four years. NO DOUBT. SEE ABOVE COMMENT ON STATE/WELFARE SYMBIOSIS. Depending on the exact figure, that could be between $20,000 and $30,000 per homeless person. They’d be better off just cutting each a check and a one-way plane ticket to any destination of their choosing. FINALLY, SOMETHING I CAN AGREE WITH THAT REQUIRES NO OTHER INFORMATION. ASSUMING OF COURSE THE DOLLAR VALUE IS ACCURATE, SINCE THERE IS NO CITATION.

        Even New York airports are being overrun. At least 50 homeless have taken up residence inside terminal B at LaGuardia Airport. They’ve chosen this particular terminal because anyone can get in without passing through security. “They have taken over,” said one female worker in the food court area. “You can’t even use the bathroom. They take showers. They hang their clothes on the stalls. They are butt-naked. They think they are in their house.” THE SAME KIND OF HYPERBOLE USED BY THE LEFT. IF THIS IS A PROBLEM THEN RUN THEM OUT. IF NOT THEN WHY DOES IT MATTER. THE SKEPTIC IN ME WONDERS IF THE PHOTO IS OF A PERSON WHOSE FLIGHT WAS CANCELLED, SETTING UP A SLEEPING AREA FOR THE WAIT.


        The interesting thing is, as is always the case, their policies are what caused this homeless outbreak. STILL WAITING FOR THAT PROOF. The same types of feel-good policies that caused the housing bubble to burst, forcing low income mortgage holders into foreclosure, bankruptcy, and eventually out onto the street. WHOA THERE MR. GODFATHER. EXACTLY WHAT “LIBERAL” POLICIES “FORCED” PEOPLE INTO FORCLOSURE?? WAS THAT NOT A “CONSERVATIVE” VIEW POINT?? YOU KNOW, YOU SIGNED THE CONTRACT NOW DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. AND JUST HOW DID “LIBERAL” POLICES “FORCE” THE BUBBLE TO BURST??? WHAT AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT. BUBBLES BY THEIR VERY DEFINTIION WILL BURST. NOBODY NEEDS TO HELP IT. THIS ONE WAS NO DIFFERENT. AND LETS REMEMBER THAT A “REPUBLICAN” WAS IN OFFICE WHEN THE BURSTING HAPPENED.

        Bleeding heart rent control policies have led to housing shortages in many of these cities. More than 1000 apartment buildings have been abandoned by their owners in New York City alone — more than enough to house all the homeless in the city. And why is this? Rent control forces landlords to charge so little that they can’t even afford the upkeep on the property much less make a profit. So they just abandoned them and the properties fall into disrepair. HOLLY CRAP BATMAN. THIS GUY COULD BE SK, GMAN OR DALE WITH HIS BACKWARDS ECONOMIC THINKING. YES THAT WAS UNCALLED FOR AND I APOLOGIZE, KIND OF. LETS REVIEW. WITHOUT CONTROLS LANDLORDS COULD “RAISE” RENTS AND THIS WOULD ALOW “MORE” HOUSING FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY RENT. MAYBE THE AUTHOR SHOULD LOOK AT OTHER “ZONING” AND “BUSINESS” ORDINANCES RATHER THAN RENT CONTROL.


        And then there’s the minimum wage that all the feel-good liberals love to describe as the “living wage.” As governments, local, state or federal artificially drive up wages, fewer people are hired and more people are fired. THIS IS THE THEORY, YET EVIDENCE IS QUITE ANECDOTAL AT THIS TIME. AND IT CERTAINLY HAS NOT BEEN LINKED TO INCREASED “HOMELESSNESS”.

        In Oakland, California, the minimum wage rose 36% in no time flat. How can a small business owner or any business be expected to absorb that? WITH MECHANIZATION OR IMPROVED MANAGEMENT?? BUT WE HAVE NO INFORMATION TO PROVE THAT THESE OPTIONS ARE NOT AVAILABLE. ESPECIALLY IN A MARKET AREA WITH OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH LIVING COSTS. WHAT PROOF DO WE HAVE THAT THE LEFTIES WHO OCCUPY THAT AREA WILL NOT ABSORB THE INCREASED COST IN THE PRICE OF THE PRODUCTS??? Oakland’s minimum wage will shortly rise to $12.55 and across the bay in San Francisco it is set to be $13 per hour. The Bay Area is already feeling the pinch as hiring has been cut in half in a single year. EVIDENCE OF THIS CLAIM?? I HAVE FAMILY THERE, THINGS HAVE BEEN BOOMING THE PAST TWO YEARS. ANECDOTAL BUT DOES NOT MESH WITH THE CLAIM MADE. NEED MORE PROOF. And once these low skilled employees lose their jobs, the likelihood of finding another is practically nil. And the next step is homelessness. OR RELOCATING, OR HOLDING TWO JOBS.

        Like everything else liberals have mucked up — they’ve done the same to the very people they claim they want to help.


      • Just A Citizen says:

        Some more information on addressing the “homeless” issue. Note: Utah has a similar program that was covered in the media a week or two ago.

    • gmanfortruth says:
      • gmanfortruth says:

        This is sickening to see how bad the education system has become. This is just another example of the failure of governments. Education should be done via free market and completely void of anything government.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      The goods and services just move underground. The odds of being caught are minimal. The only reason the USSR even remotely lasted was the underground black market. Look who ran and had the money after the communist collapse. In Italy the black market was alive and well.

  36. “I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” Benjamin Franklin

    I recently watched a video by one of the editor if Breitbart. He was talking to a HS assembly. Eventually he came to the topic of generational poverty. He stated that there was no excuse for multiple generations living in poverty in this land of opportunity. At this point, the principal interrupted the lecture to dismiss any students who found this topic offensive and hurtful. About 1/3 to half the audience left. The lecture continued on the topic with the speaker explaining that long term individual poverty was due to poor choices and also to a lack of money management skills. Instant gratification and the lust for the latest iPhone etc. are poor choices compared to investing in education or some other income generating legal activity.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      Back when my folks lived in NY. My Mother worked extensively with the local Catholic church. They had drives, for food, drives, for clothes, shoes you name it. All was crated up and sent to the poor in Africa. One day a bishop from Africa came and talked to them and asked the parish to STOP sending the free goods. With all the free stuff they just put a tailor or a shoemaker or whatever out of business. Thereby exaserbating and actually creating MORE problems. Why start a farm and grow food, when it arrives for free. You’re out of business.

  37. California has got the answer……..among the new laws being passed in 2016….everyone gets a high school diploma regardless of whether you graduated or not… participation trophies. On this basis, my spousal unit came up with a good idea. Hold the collegiate and professional sporting events in California…..everyone wins, no one loses. There is a championship ring and trophy for everyone and we will all live happily ever after.

    • Not so fast Mrs. Colonel! Let Sparty come into Arlington and create a Low Tide situation fair and square. Go Green!

      • I certainly hope that Sparty can beat Bama……..and I hope that Oklahoma beats Clemson…( yes, a Texan said that )..

        • Ihope JAC was not drinking coffee when he read that.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            As a matter of fact I was, but kind of expected that from you. Like me pulling for those California schools over the SEC or ACC. If not MY state then defer to the neighbors.

            I am with you all the way on my favorites this time around.

            Have to admit I got a tickle out of UCLA getting beat the other night, but only because BOTH Washington and Washington State had won.

            Now where is Kathy……………….TROJANS rule.

            • Yes, sir……….I just want some respect for the Big 12… one respects the 12…..I would even root for A&M ( cough cough ) if they represented the 12 in any non 12 game.

              How are you and your’s SIR?

              • But since they are in the SEC……I do not give a patootie what happens to them.

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Doing fine here Sir. About 2 feet of snow over Christmas so all projects have moved “in doors”, except for the shoveling of snow.

                Been pulling for the Big 12 teams as well, as long as not playing PAC 12 of course. Although I might cheer for Baylor or TCU over those “California” schools.

                Speaking of which, how about the game plan by Baylor last night??? I was thinking back to all those old films of the “flying wedge” and “single wing”. Back when QBs did not pass or might throw three times a game. It was sure fun to watch.

  38. And now the conundrum…..the Southern Baptist Convention has voted to allow open carry in all affiliated Texas churches. The Catholic Diocese has voted to allow open carry in all affiliated Texas churches. The pacifist and conscientious objectionist Mormon Church has voted to allow open carry in all affiliated Texas churches…..

    Target stores have said no……the irony of it all.

    • It’s kinda funny because open carry starts January 1 for handguns…….everyone is expecting wid west days and 6 guns on the hips…….I am betting that, like myself, I will not be carrying in the open until summer time. I have nothing to prove by advertising I have a weapon…..I simply will carry it and not worrying if it peeks out from under a sweater or sweat pants. Most will not strap on a “gun” just because they can.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      I may be wrong as usual, but isn’t “Target” sort of a French company? I rememmber something about that back after 9/11

  39. JAC…in reference to your lengthy post above….re: homeless. It is interesting how many 40 year old Vietnam Veterans are on the street ( you do the math )

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Yes Sir, it is interesting and has been that way from the beginning. Talked to a couple of them just the other day. Not sure what math you want me to do though.

      Those I have met indicate they just couldn’t handle living among the rest of us after their experience. They could not say exactly what it was in the experience but they just didn’t feel comfortable.

      My theory: PTSD was more wide spread than we recognized and not treated properly. By the time many were reached they had formed their “wild” habits. There is also the affect of coming home to a “hostile” population. I would have run away myself, hell I did in a way and I didn’t even get to the tropical vacation spot. Just couldn’t handle the mentality of those hating on my fellow citizens for serving their country. So I found a career and location where people respected the vets as they should have been respected. Hell, many of my fellow workers or supervisors were Vietnam Vets. As were many of my college mates.

      Your theory??? Curious what you think was the reason for this group to go homeless, or at least slip the surely bonds of family hood.

      • First of all…the math…..there are no 40 year old Vietnam Veterans. I am finding it amazing how many jump on this band wagon. I am 67…I was there in 70 and 71 (two tours until I sprung a leak from a high speed projectile)….The war was over in 75 and no new personnel were sent after 73……

        As to the personnel and my theory. I was lucky, in one respect. After tending to my wounds in a hospital in Japan, I returned home on a troop transport that landed in San Francisco. We did not taxi to a main terminal…we were taxied to a maintenance hangar because of the protestors in the San Francisco terminal that were throwing eggs, feces, and all kinds of vile crap on returning servicemen. I have a wife and family to return to that did not reject my service as some families disowned their sons. I was not planning on making any type of career out of the military until I coud not get hired to even pump gasoline at a gas station and I have a master’s degree in business management, from the University of Texas, and a master’s degree in finance from the Wharton School of Business. I chose not to go into the family business at that time because I wanted to prove myself in the real world without being labeled a silver spoon mantra. I could have skipped out of the military back then because of my family connections and because we were close personal friends of then House Speaker Jim Wright. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to some fine schools when others were not. But upon returning, that did not make any difference. My own dad told me that if I joined in the family business that the sons of other families would reject me because I did not take advantage of privilege. So, I went my own way eager to prove myself and even with the degrees that I had…..simpy being a Vietnam Veteran would not get you hired and the Discrimination Act of 1967 and others in the 70’s simply did not apply to Vietnam Vets regardless of race. So, when families and society in general looked at you in the way they did,,,,,it was easy to escape into drugs, alcoholism, etc. In addition, PTSD was very prevalent then but was looked upon as simple cases of battle fatigue and no one at that time paid attention. There were no veteran facilities available either except in very remote areas. It was not until the 80’s that the Vietnam Vets got any recognition. So, we were shunned by our friends, society in general, family, and business’. In the early 80’s I was able to join the family business but also stayed in the active reserve as that was my therapy for PTSD.

        The Vietnam War was aslo a very ugly war…it was not antiseptic like Desert Storm, which I fought in, and Afghanistan, which I was also in…( I did miss the Iraq one ). In Vietnam, we had no GPS or lasers and could not shoot from afar….

        So, I can see why….but when I see a person that is aged in their 50’s and 40’s standing under a bridge with a sign that says will work for food…..or asking for help….I always ask what unit they served with and where they were stationed…..the answer I always get….I do not want to talk about it. Well, sir, get to actua Vietnam Vets together….they will talk.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          ROTFLMAO. I know there are no 40 yr old VN vets, so I thought you meant VN vets who had been out 40 or more years. 1975 plus 40 = 2015.

          Next time I will take your words as written and not make such rash assumptions. Should have known you were setting a Bar Trap.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          Looks like we have the same theories/ideas on this one.

          I always wondered why the military unloaded troops in such hostile territory as SF.

          They did not get the same hostile reception in other places. There were the occasional hecklers but we “Aggies” did not tolerate much of that behavior.

          • Dale A. Albrecht says:

            I always loved being escorted through US airports (sarc). To avoid trouble. In Europe it was the opposite, that is back then in history

      • I think the Colonel may be referring to fake vets. Whole bunch of them around. I always liked the opening of “Trading Places” with Dan Ackroid and Eddie Murphy where Murphy pretend to be a homeless badly crippled vet until he runs across a cop who is a Vietnam vet. The cop asks what unit? Murphy replies something like the 4866 provisional battalion of quartermaster snipers.

        I cannot help bringing up the re-inventing the wheel analogy. Civil War vets went west, WW 1 vets went crazy. I will never forget that Lt Col,. Whittelsey of “Lost Battalion” fame. Just walked off the back of a passenger ship one night in 1921. Medal of Honor awardee and all. . All those gritty 1930’s crime dramas were about vets gone bad. Remember Cagney? WW 2. we know a whole bunch of people never settled down and bought into the American Dream. I have two uncles out of eight, infantrymen, who served who had severe problems readjusting till they died in their eighties. They led “normal” lives but Mom who knew them before the war said they were never the same. Korea I would guess the same and Viet-nam, well we all know about that. My son has a friend from college, a Vietnamese immigrant who worked his ass off to get through ROTC and a commission. We have not seen him in years. The story was as he led a platoon in Afghanistan, a sniper took out his RTO and he wound up with the guys brains all over his face. We do know he was decorated and that he left the army early and took up drinking.

        If you really want to get a handle on PTSD I recommend:

        Achilles in Viet-nam

        Odysseus in America

        both by Dr. Jonathan Shea a VA psychiatrist whose own story is fascinating. He goes heavily into the “betrayal” of these soldiers and vets.

        Here’s Whittlessey’s story.

        • I do a lot of volunteering at the VA Hospital in Dallas…..there are some Vets that are in the quarters there that will never leave and have no family that will visit them. I will go over and read to them or play chess or checkers……pretty interesting, the Vietnam Vets like to play cribbage, spades, and red dog. They have dart boards over there that have naked pictures of Jane Fonda on them…..

          Ursula Andress, Elke Sommer, Raquel Welch, and Yvonne DeCarlo are the preferred pinups….

          Uncle Scrooge, Batman, Superman, and Archie are the preferred comic books…

  40. yes….Baylor game was fun to watch without its two top quarterbacks…..flying wedges and single wings with pitch options,,,,,just in your face football……

    However, these targeting rules are getting a little out of hand.

    • Also, I noticed that the PAC 12 gets about as much respect as the Big 12……not very much from the pundits.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        So true and one reason I force myself to pull for Calif teams. I heard two major network announcers admit they didn’t realize how good that Stanford kid was or how good the WSU and WA teams were. Because they never stayed up late enough to watch them during the season.

        I might disagree with you on the “targeting”, although I do agree there seems to be no consistency. The one last night was pretty obvious. But I saw one the day before that was in no way a targeting with the helmet or shoulders. Didn’t even hit the guy in the head. And upheld on review.

        Also loved the network “ref analyst” the other day going on how the Bengal QB had fumbled the ball and the incomplete pass would be overruled. WRONG. The dopy TV ref. never addressed the question, “how could the ball go ten yards down field if the arm was not moving forward”.

        I think NFL and NCAA need to go back to some basic and more simple rules. How about if the ball comes out before it hits the ground……..FUMBLE. And if the guy catches the ball and gets one/both feet down it is a catch.

        Oh and my favorite. Blocking in the back is a clip……….no matter where it happens and Grabbing another player is HOLDING. Don’t matter where your arms are.

        One more. Receivers and DB’s keep your hands off each other after the 5 yard mark. Touching is same as HOLDING. Inside 5 yards there is no HOLDING but a DB or Receiver should be able to knock the other guy on his butt if they can.

        • Yes… before PC was so much simpler. If you grabbed a jersey….anywhere it was holding. If you locked arms, it was holding. If you threw any block in the back it was clipping…you are free meat within five yards before the ball is thrown…rip his head off. After five yards…no sir. Instant replay ( some like it…some do not…) depends on whose ox is being gored at the time.

          Targeting…..I understand the reason behind it. Becoming a spear and hitting someone in the head with the intent of hurting…I can see this. Crack back blocking below the waist targeting the knees has no other purpose that to “take someone out”….I do have a problem with blocking high and low….I really do not see a problem with two players blocking a person high/low.

          Football is intended to be a rough game…..let ’em play………………….Rollerball Style. ( No stainless Steel footballs )

          I still like ice hockey because you can fight, knock teeth out, splash a little blood, forecheck at mach 4., slap shot a puck at 300 MPH…..try to get away with a high stick…the only penalty that I agree with in ice hockey is slamming a head into the boards…..I guess I could see keeping the sticks below the waist as well….after all it is a sport.

          Hell, even in baseball you can’t slide in with cleats up….


  41. gmanfortruth says:

    Locker room policy at the Young Men’s Christian Association (YMCA) in Seattle, Washington, now allows self-identified “transgender” males to shower with 15-year-old girls. Controversy surrounding this decision has led many to question the organization and even cancel their memberships.

    According to an inside source at the YMCA, the decision had been brewing ever since March of this year, when a “open door” policy for trans individuals was being discussed. In April 2015, the YMCA of Pierce and Kitsap Counties established a “no questions asked” policy, allowing open access to locker rooms without stating genders.

    Sources notified The Daily Wire that the YMCA executives in charge were aware of this and deliberately avoided disclosing the information to members for fear of backlash. After the YMCA Homeschool found out about the policy in September, Jill Wade, a mother in the group, went on the Todd Herman Show and expressed her concerns about allowing transgendered men in locker rooms with young girls.


    • Damn……when I was in the YMCA we could not shower with the girls………sigh again. However, there was the YWCA at the time and we tried to sneak peeks in the girls showers….but we were always caught by a matron that was 6 foot tall with a tatoo on her forehead.

  42. Just A Citizen says:

    Given all the discussion on US manufacturing how about some data:

  43. Just A Citizen says:

    US manufacturing, total employees. OR…………….the rest of the story.

    • 14% fewer people making the same output we had in 2007. So the recession led to more efficiency but no essential increase in pay. Now if we had had real growth over the last 7 years, we would all be better off.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        I did a little more digging and I think the problem has been the housing industry. It affects manufacturing employment as it is more labor intensive.

        Otherwise you are correct. If the whole economy was humming with the increased productivity we would be doing well.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      JAC…good follow on chart. The one thing that I saw and experienced over the years was that we here in the US were extremely inovative and very competitive on the world market. When I left IBM semiconductor R/D in ’95 we were the BEST in the world. Period. Not Intel, Not NEC, AMD, Motorola…Nobody We were totally competitive on cost, labor due to productivity, we’d be out with product years before anybody else. Problem was we were captive to IBM. Could not sell outside, or foundry as it was called at the time. Our revenue even in internal $ was 2X the next largest which was NEC…..Finance though important was our biggest nemesis. They never grasped the concept of running simple technologies over a complex manufacturing line. Even though you’d make 100% yield you’d lose money on every chip. They were commodity priced at the time. You needed to run them on less efficient and cheaper facilties. We wound up running product that we could make $1000 a chip where a box of them was valued at $50M and sell every one. But the line was clogged by cheap product that we couldn’t move. We reserected (sp) an old dorment line. Finance approved the quailed. 250M pissed away on top of the loss in the complex line. They approved a 2nd time then quailed, a 3rd time. Total expenditure was 1B and we never were able to get the cheap stuff moved.

      Back when Apple was dying and Steve Jobs came up with a better idea. IBM created the microprocessors that enable it. We invented the processes, we owned the patents, we owned the vendors that built the tools required…..yet we got no credit. Motorola got the headlines. Then finnce decided that the tools were expensive which they were but they were the only way the new generation of microproceesors could be made. Intel, literally fried hot dogs on the chips. TRUE. they could not make them work. Finance cut our throats, then the exclusive vendor of the tools said they were OUT of business if we did not buy. Finance opened the patent and INTEL bought up the next 4 years of tools and completely retooled their facilities. within 6 month Finance said Whoops you need the tools. But guess what none were available. Our own invention. Our competition bought every one and saved their business.

      Next….the executive decided to sell out right the patent that put Intel on the map to begin with. We jointly owned it with them. But by giving up the rights the company had to now PAY INTEL a royalty on parts we invented and also that we manufactured. The exec’s said they did not want to be in that low end business They had NO concept of the PC future and it’s connection. They let Microsoft off with the product of windows….Today the business is GONE, dead and buried. If they truly didn’t want to be in the manufacturing world…say so. Spin us off.

      The one thing that as being a productivity and QC guy my entire career, was since the mid 80’s. We’d come up with the productivity…and sort of expect to reduce labor, OK but increased sales usually offset. Increased yield, lower costs more customers. No brainer. So labor headcount was not lost. Today, we’d innovate and the 1st thing that happened was the idea was off-shored to a much cheaper labor source. Return to the shareholder was great. but the innovators got screwed. So many of the ideas came out of the lines…the people got frustrated….we innovate and lost our jobs. Why bother.
      If the labor market was truly mobile, I’d go anywhere except the M/E. The counties that are getting those ideas are NOT recipricating and allowing us to go there. When I saw 9K’s job (60 of them) in Slovakia which were godsends to them get outsourced to India. I asked when did we ever ever ever have that company who got the contract actually fulfiill the job right. FINANCE said, never, but the redo and rework for shit work was still cheaper than the correctly done work the 1st time in Slovakia. Who suffers…the customer. They have learned to accept MEDIOCRITY. I had use of systems back in the stone age that are better than any system today. Even PRE INTERNET and we never worried about virus’s etal.

  44. Just A Citizen says:


    Hate to be a stickler for facts but Hemlock is NOT a type of pine. It is Hemlock. Different genus and specie than all the pines.

    Yours sources would be “eastern” Hemlock. I do not know the properties of that specie. But western Hemlock is also pretty hardy even though it is sold with true fir species.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      you’re snowed in, we’re rained in. geez it’s been wet. humid, thunderstorms, pouring rain an 80 degrees. But then it beats the heck out of plowing snow.

    • Dale A. Albrecht says:

      He did use all the current, soft soap buzzwords

    • DuPont several years ago decided they were going to be a green company. They spun off their Spandex business (petroleum based) and other ventures and invested in products made from biomass. They also invested in hydrogen fuel cell technology. All geared towards being PC. Maybe they should go back to making black powder.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        And fishing gear. DuPont lures were killers.

      • Dale A. Albrecht says:

        Didn’t Hillary have a big crusade against DuPont back when she was 1st Lady against the “silicon” used in enhancing the bustline.

  45. Just A Citizen says:

    Some things to look forward to, for all you gloom and doom types.

    I do find the headline a little silly given several of the supposed “inventions” that are going to change human life forever. But there are a few really big ones.

    Genetic manipulation and new methods of developing anti-biotics, along with new batteries.

    The quantum computer is a big one as well. But wait until the new processor tech. is revealed. Not only super speed but SMALL………….. as in ATOM sized.

  46. Just A Citizen says:

    Very important MUST READ piece. Too bad the left wing and DNC candidates continue to ignore these truths. This is the cost to We the People for allowing ourselves to be manipulated by politicians and media pundits.

  47. gmanfortruth says:

    There is a new thread posted. See ya’ll there 🙂

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