UPDATE! Burns, Oregon

It’s time for a new thread, so we will revisit the Constitutional issues later.  In the mean time, I thought I would throw up a situation report on the ongoings in Burns Oregon and the Bundy standoff.  This comes to us from the Oathkeepers:

12622162_1664813230473069_2344731625464867450_o-800x500_cThis is a Situation Report from sources on the ground in the vicinity of (IVO) Burns, Oregon, as well as from open source reporting. This SITREP includes information from a SALUTE report generated yesterday* and is augmented with more recent information.

– An estimated 200 federal vehicles are in the town of Burns, Oregon, located at the FBI compound at the Burns Municipal Airport, hotels, and on the roads.

– Including approximately 50 vehicles at the Harney County Sheriff’s Office, we concur with yesterday’s SALUTE report that 400 or more local, state, and federal personnel are on the ground IVO the town of Burns.

– Last week, the FBI compound at the Burns Municipal Airport consisted of one modular tent, a directional microwave antenna, a “cell on wheels” antenna, and a satellite dish mounted on a communications vehicle.

– In the past several days, the FBI presence has significantly increased to three modular tents, six equipment trailers, and one to two dozen mobile light towers, in addition to dozens of additional personnel. Sources on the ground say the increase consists mostly of tactical teams, as opposed to support teams.

– Multiple sources also report that the FBI and other law enforcement demeanor has changed to “almost hostile” towards the Pacific Patriots Network.

eeeeeeANALYST COMMENT: Analysts concur that the ramp up of federal personnel and equipment is sufficient to put a cordon in place around the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, and possibly set up checkpoints IVO Burns, OR.  One thing missing from the area is the presence of armor, such as Bearcats, Mine-Resistant, Ambush-Proof (MRAP), Cougar or Buffalo military vehicles.  I would not expect a cordon to be put into place without armored vehicles in place, so that may be the best indicator of a future cordon.

Although the FBI now has the capability to cordon and raid the Refuge, we do not expect the FBI to choose violence as a first resort. From the beginning, the FBI has gone on the record and maintained that they want a peaceful resolution. I still believe this to be the case.

Open source media reports the presence of children at the Refuge.  Significant backlash would follow an attempt to clear the compound without first exhausting all negotiations to remove the children from the area.  If children perish during another government onslaught like Waco or Ruby Ridge, a large number of Americans have gone on the record to say that there will be the proverbial hell to pay.  I believe this to be the case, too.

A best case scenario is one that ends with Ammon Bundy and the Occupiers having gotten their point across to the American People without blood being shed by either party.

SALUTE Report from 22 JAN 16:

SIZE: 200+ Fed vehicles, 400-500 agents/LEOs, mostly tac guys

ACTIVITIES: Shadowing militia throughout town. Hotels filling up with FBI, State Troopers, etc. Sheriff’s dept fully locked down and barricaded.

LOCATION: Burns airport. Most hotels. Sheriff’s department.

UNITS: FBI tac teams, State Troopers, and SDs from around state

TIME: No demands have been made by FBI to vacate facility. Bundy will not vacate until his demands are met.

EQUIPMENT: Multiple large army tents at airport. Approximately 1 dozen light towers, half dozen portable outhouses. Minimum 1 drone. Multiple comms trucks, satellite and antenna. 1 medical response van.

ADDITIONAL: State Police are pulling any vehicle over, including citizens, for absolutely any small violation. Was not case previously to this weekend.  Sam Culper

Regardless of your feelings on the matter, let’s hope for a peaceful resolution.



  1. gmanfortruth says:


  2. gmanfortruth says:

    Trump’s poll leads increase, Cruz falls. Was this not expected after the last debate?

  3. gmanfortruth says:

    Situation Report (SITREP) for 2200L 24 JAN 2016

    – Local reports indicate a possible decrease in federal vehicles in the vicinity (IVO) Burns, OR, which may be due to a recent FBI shift change. Sources also reported a decrease in the number of law enforcement vehicles in the area.

    – There’s been no change in the FBI’s posture IVO Burns, OR.

    – Pacific Patriots Network leadership were introduced to two new FBI agents who are replacing the previous two FBI contacts. The new FBI agents desired continued communications with the PPN, and wanted the PPN to continue to communicate with Ammon Bundy. Each party also reiterated a desire for a peaceful resolution.

    – Lavoy Finicum renewed his commitment to the Malheur cause, denying rumors that the group was attempting to negotiate their way out of the Refuge. “All of those of you who are worried that we are about to negotiate a withdrawal with the FBI, that is not the case. We are not going anywhere. We are here to do a job,” he recently told reporters.

    – There are two unconfirmed reports of overt FBI surveillance of the Malheur compound over the weekend. An occupier in the watch tower overlooking the Refuge Headquarters reported an aircraft making runs over the area. The other unconfirmed report is that a Malheur guard approached a vehicle with two FBI agents who left after a short conversation. No further information is available.

    – A community meeting in Burns was scheduled for Monday, 25 January; however, it was cancelled by Harney County Judge Steven Grasty, citing “security concerns.” In a news release, Judge Grasty was concerned over a protest against the “public meeting” in which seating was limited and personal identification would be checked before entering.

    ANALYST COMMENT: A shift change would explain a quick increase and decrease in personnel, however, it does not account for the additional equipment and gear trailers brought in over the past week. Although the FBI is being measured in their response, they likely maintain the capability to secure the Refuge, if necessary. Additionally, we can probably expect a similar shift change within the next two weeks.

    We expect tactical teams to remain on standby in the event they’re needed in Burns or at the Refuge, however, they do not appear to be any more likely to cordon the Refuge as they were in the past 48 hours.

    Time is clearly on the side of law enforcement. We continue to see a calm and calculated presence as the FBI is likely building a criminal case against Ammon Bundy and the Malher crew. A continued willingness to have dialogue with the Pacific Patriots Network remains a positive indicator that a peaceful resolution is desired.

    MLCOA: As long as FBI capabilities remain at current levels and we don’t see any indicators of armored vehicles or restricted airspace, then the Most Likely Course of Action is a continuation of what we’ve observed over the past two weeks as the FBI continues to give enough rope to the Malheur occupiers in hopes that they hang themselves.

    MDCOA: The arrival of armored vehicles in the area or the introduction of temporary flight restrictions would signal the Most Dangerous Course of Action, which is putting a cordon in place, escalating the situation, and increasing the likelihood of violence.

    Photo credit: Harney County Mall Cops

    • gmanfortruth says:

      It seems as though this little issue may last awhile, at least until the Fed’s lose patience.

  4. gmanfortruth says:

    Here is what happened, quietly, on January 1, 2016

    Medicare tax went from 1.45% to 2.35%

    ​Top Income tax bracket went from 35% to 39.6%

    Capital Gains tax went from 15% to 28%

    Dividend tax went from 15% to 39.6%

    Estate tax went from 0% to 55%

    A 3.5% Real Estate transaction tax was added.

    These taxes were all passed in the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare.

    Heck..the Revolutionary War started for less crap than this……..

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      I’m not going to even look “yet” to see if these are correct. Only one will be of interest to me as of now. All the “open debates” about increasing these taxes individually, all were argued and argued and then quietly went away. But then, all get rolled up into one big bill that “NO” representative claims to have read that voted on it. And for that matter wasn’t billed as a TAX bill, until after the SCOTUS said the ACA was constitutional because Congress has the right to TAX. In all the “rollback” votes by the house I NEVER remember these issues even being a point, or as a individual bill to go through. I have NO reason now to doubt G’s stand, they’re all in it. The government has an unsatisfied appetite for taxes and will get them anyway they can, The appetite is driven by the Federal government getting into things they should never be involved in regardless of what the people want. But both the people and congress have discovered that they can get bought. The sad thing is that if the government would not TAKE to then give it back after laundering, the vast majority of the people could very well take care of themselves by saving for the future. Those savings are taken by the government, then dolled out or not based on whether there are funds. Doesn’t that happen if an individual overspends, but it only affect them.

      One of the primary banners of the Revolutionary WAR was “No Taxation Without Representation” Well the country revolted and we got representation. Today the people said NO to the ACA and everything associated with it, that is what was not held secret or added later by the agencies. The people still say NO. But yet congress and the president say yes in direct opposition to the people. LET the congressmen pay for it if they want it.

      So only 5% more people in the US have medical insurance now the ACA is in place versus when it was passed. This whole deal was a fraud and a con from day one, and continues with the complicity of the GOP. All for the show.

  5. And here is what will happen as a result.

    Nothing you can do about Medicare tax……it kills the middle class.
    Top income tax bracket……just means that the top people will report less income. The upper middle class gets creamed again.
    Capital Gains tax is very simple…..the top income brackets will simply not take capital gains…we will not sell anything and just sit on our money and assets and wait for changes. hopefully, after the next election…..again it hits the middle class when they take their 401’s.
    Dividend tax also has some offsets…it is simple as well….any stock dividend is not taken…you do not get taxed until you take it. It will sit in a cash account and accrue.
    The Estate tax was not at zero and has not been for several years. It simply went to 55% but that will not last very long. In addition, they left in the generation skip which is a very simple procedure and the exemption did not change.
    I know nothing about the real estate transaction tax but I have just recently bought real estate in 2016 and there was no tax added…either state or Federal.

    • However, you left out several other taxes all designed to hit middle class. The Progressive left wants no middle class and already has offered new definitions as to what they want middle class to be, By redefining it, they automatically raise taxes and the definition does not need any Congressional nor Presidential approval…it simply gets redefined in the tax code.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        It sure does seem like neither side wants the middle class. They talk like they do, only to take actions that are the polar opposite.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        Anything relating to taxes and finance, you and BF are the go to guys. The old sayings “Have and have not’s” has been valid in most of man’s history. The “Middle” class is a brief bright spot in lifes story. Mostly from the US but rapidly reverting as each year progresses under “progressive” leadership. Remember the thought that the old british gentry had about going into “Trade” and how they looked down at it. Think of all the embargos that have been passed in history. The only people that were hurt were the “people” not the leaders or the smugglers. They always got theirs.

  6. gmanfortruth says:

    How to make Progressive heads explode. Demand the Fed’s provide an assault weapon and appropriate training for all law abiding citizens under this clause:

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    Since the militia is NCESSARY for a free State and the PEOPLE are the militia, which is clearly outlined within the Constitution, this could be fun!

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      contact you local congressman and senator and demand for them to implement the new swedish classes on sniper training, but with a twist. the swedes are doing it to facilitate the muslim migrants to learn swedish…..here the training should be for those citizens of the US that speak english.

  7. gmanfortruth says:

    Carolina versus Denver 🙂

    Early prediction, Carolina in a blowout.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Carolina only on the grounds of because. I’d like to see Payton get one more ring just to tie his brother Eli. I often wonder, how many rings Archie, their Father, may have gotten if he had been allowed to move around like today and not have been stuck at New Orleans.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Geez, I wonder how many more taxes that the people will continue to allow? Overtaxed, overregulated, overbullshitted and underrespected.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        Heck just give it all to the government and let them redistribute based on all the special criteria of some social injustice at some time in history. So the majority of us here on SUFA will get only 1-2 credits maybe. Just look at where societies have gone when you shoot the movers and shakers and entrepenuers. And all decisions are by bureaucrats. The people wind up with nothing but dispair and the elite, because they are working so hard for YOU get the car, special lanes, medical care and special clinics, fresh food, special stores with imports the people can not afford or are banned to them.

  8. Here is the other issue about to face everyone….now, we are not big boys in the oild and gas industry by any stretch of even Obama’s imagination…….but we are sitting on our oil and gas as are several smaller indepedents….and the independents make up approximately 60% of the oil production in CONUS. Prices will start to move upwards again.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Smart move in light of the recent change by congress for domestic oil and gas producers allowing selling outside the CONUS. Couple that with Iran sanctions lifted and the Saudi’s pumping it as fast as they can. You’d be giving it away. If your production had been produced debt free, then you will not have a bank knocking on your door demanding a payment that you can not possibly comply with, which is hitting so many less prudent companies.

  9. Just A Citizen says:

    Anyone want to predict how the “left” will react to the SCIENTISTS on this issue??


    • These crap heads are still all about the PRIVACY issue. Poor, poor nutcases. They will be stigmatized as they shoot up a school if you identify them as nutcases.

      How about they adopt a variation of Teddy Kennedy’s old standby, “If we can save one life by locking up these loons, it is worth it.”

    • And the link off the artice that says that the suicides would NOT decrease if no guns are available. If a person is going to kill him or herself…they will do it anyway. Alternative methods will be used.

  10. Just A Citizen says:


    Good morning Sir. Hoping all is well in the Republic this fine morning.

    Question: Does the Secretary of State have the HIGHEST security clearance possible?? Does POTUS have the highest clearance possible?? How about SECDEF or the Director of the CIA??

    I am curious WHO if anyone has access to ALL our intelligence information along with all those “classified” reports which have NOT been “redacted”.

    My new prediction on Clinton. Someone in her “inner circles” is going to jail for removing highly classified materials from classified servers and then sending that material to Mrs. Clinton. She will deny any prior knowledge and will thus escape any hard charges. Unless her inner circle rolls over. I think they will not, because the loyalty of these people is beyond belief or reason.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Sort of the inverse of Nixon. He should have fired every last one of the staff and election committee, but chose to be loyal and paid the price. Everyone knew about Watergate before the election and still voted overwhelmingly for Nixon, just chalking up the break-in to politics, and the guys just got caught.

      Where Hillary and the Obama team including the DOJ, IRS etc have willfully taken action to evade Congressional oversight. Destroying hard drives etal. How many “friends and family” of Hillary routinely got and sent personal e-mails via her server. I’d wager that if I tried to even get near the official State dept documents sent and received by her to other officials we would have had some security officer pretty damn quickly shutting you down, finding out what you accessed and notifying the FBI. Her system had no such security team other than it being hidden in her basement.

      Didn’t that Army person who got convicted who is now transgender “chelsea” release Hillary’s embarrassing and frank corespondence. Perported to be from State systems, but we now know Hillary did not use them. So her private server was hacked….please correct me if I’m mistaken.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        The released emails could have come from State’s servers. They would have resided there AFTER Hillary sent them to someone in State.

        I have never seen anything indicating she never used official email or computer systems for sending memos, etc. Would be interesting if she composed stuff at State and forwarded CC, or BC to her own server. Have not seen any details on this kind of stuff.

    • WOW….what a great question. The POTUS/SOS…..have the highest clearances..but so does a lot of people. For example, I have a TS/SSIR….but I MUST have a need to know to have access. I cannot just say I want to see something…..like investigate. I must have a court order or an order from a Courts Martial to investigate something on a whim. The POTUS cannot walk over to the CIA and say….I want to see your files. The FBI cannot walk over to the CIA or vice versa. ( That does not mean it doesn’t happen ).

      There is a term that is often used called “plausible deniability”. Some are kept in the dark so that they could not testify or claim they know. It is well known among the political circles, that in order to protect yourself, you get a get out of jail card. A letter from a higher source authorizing you to do something. Some schmuck in Clinton’s office is going to be the fall. They will get convicted and then pardoned and then be rich after that.

      Clinton’s problem is…..that as Secretary of State…if her dog takes a poop in the front yard…it is classified. That is common knowledge, An invitation to a birthday party is a classified document when it involves the S.O.S….simply because of the position. A simple phone call from her daughter saying that she is pregnant is a classified communication even on apay phone….and the fact that there are plenty of pictures available showing Clinto always on her cell phone….all calls are deemed to be classified information.

      As a Brigade Commander, even if I told my lower commanders to go wash their tanks….it is considered a classified communication simply because of my position. Clinton knows this as well…..however, since most people do not dwell in this arena…they do not know. So, “plausible denialibility” becomes common place and people buy it.

      Does this help? I can get more explicit if you need it.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        I assume SECDEF has the same clearance as SOS and POTUS?

        I know they don’t and I know about “plausible deniability”, but COULD either of these three simply walk in and demand to see all top secret and higher information.

        I also know that the term “classified” does not make something off limits for everyone, or many people in fact. It depends on what that “classification” is that is assigned.

        I was just wondering if our Govt has created a “compartmentalized” system that prevents anyone from ever seeing ANYTHING THEY WANT. Assuming it is those three positions.

        Now how about the Speaker of the House? How far down the POTUS line of succession does the top clearance go?

        • That is my point, JAC…..no…..you must have a need to know, even asthe POTUS. Now, as CIC, he can walk in and see anything military but he cannot go to the IRS and say let me see.

          • The SEC of Defense has clearance only as it relates to Military….the Sec of State only has clearance as it relates to FBI/CIA……none have clearance to the IRS……..unless they appoint the head which is the same, if you catch my drift.

            NOw, as Sec of State….no one has carte blanche to CIA……no one.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Is this one of the reasons that Def. Dept created its own intelligence agency? Because SECDEF, Joint Chiefs and POTUS did not have access to CIA?

            Does POTUS have unrestricted access to Def. Dept. intelligence?? If he/she wants it, that is.

            • That IS one of the reasons,,,,this came about because often times the CIA would claim they did not have appropriate intelligence to warn the military against things. Each have their own FIFEDOM,,,,,,and do not want to share it with anyone….

              In VIetnam, I worked with a CIA team on an operation, project Omega, in the Central Highlands. Now, Project Omega is still classified to this day but I know enough to be able to say that the CIA and the military did not cooperate. And, there are things that I cannot still say dome 45 years later…..but, we did not have access to CIA intelligence even if we worked with them on the same operation….we were told when “deemed appropriate”.

            • Does POTUS have unrestricted access to Def. Dept. intelligence?? If he/she wants it, that is.


              • Just A Citizen says:


                I am still a little confused. Does POTUS have unrestricted access to CIA intelligence?? If he/she wants it.

                If it is only by “need to know” then who the heck decides if POTUS needs to know?

        • JAC stated: I also know that the term “classified” does not make something off limits for everyone, or many people in fact. It depends on what that “classification” is that is assigned.”

          This is true..there are many classifications….but the point is Hillary’s comments that nothing “marked” classified was translitted. As SEC of State….EVERYTHING that Hillary does is some level of classification..there is NOTHING that she does that is unclassified….nothing…and that includes her morning constitutional.

          So, there are NO claims to unclassified with her.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          So lets take this to the next step. If SOS can only see stuff that is within his/her mission, so to speak, and he/she can only see Top Secret and higher documents “on an as need to know” basis, then HOW did someone down the food chain get authority to take information off compartmentalized servers and transfer it to the SOS’s PRIVATE SERVER????

          I do not understand how someone would even have access to said information without a top level clearance. Especially after Snowden.

          I would think that the SOS chief of staff or other deputies do not have the same clearance as the SOS proper, as part of the compartmentalization and need to create plausible deniability.

          Now along those same lines, under what “need to know” basis did the SOS need photos of North Korean missile sites????

          If there was no stated reason for the “need to know” requirement then her possession of said photos violated the law/regulations regarding access to said information. REGARDLESS of whether there was a stamp on the document. 😉

          • You can create a need to know basis on some mission status. In other words, the SOS can have a mission related need to know. Now, there is a term used called clear and present danger. The SOS can manufacture a clear and present danger scenario. Also, there is an intelligence over-ride committee that is chaired by whomever is in office. That committee has the authority to deem what is a need to know and creates a congressional authority to release specific information….sort of like a limited power of attorney. The CIA nor the FBI cannot say…nope….not doing it. To do so, makes them the more powerful than the POTUS. But I understood your questions to mean…..can the POTUS or the SOS just simply decide to do some light reading one night and, at will, peruse CIA and FBI files. The answer to that is no………………………however……………………….there are ways around it using Congressionl over sight. THe tail wags the dog, so to speak.

            Now, for example, my staff all have top secret clearance….the same that I do. There are top secret documents that come in that are “eyes only” meaning, my eyes only. However, if I told my staff to destroy the TS cover sheet, then I would have plausible denialbility at that point provided that my staff keeps their mouth shut. At my level, I have no power to make sure they can get pardoned if caught so I would not be able to pull that off. In addition, I have never had TS material sent to me utilizing any uncrypted means. Usually, the most sensitive TS documents are brought by courier and signed for at that time. IF it is eyes only, the courier waits until I am available and in James Bond style, ( locked briefcase on wrist with eye encryption scan ) literally hands me the documents.

            The other thing that I also see….is that every single page has TS stamped on top and bottom in big red letters,

            NOw…going a little further…….if I am in the field and it is not possible nor not expedient to bring me classified documents, then there is, of course, encrypted code that needs to be decoded but that is not stamped top or bottom.

            • Dale A Albrecht says:

              I know what Hillary’s campaigns logan should be. “Ask me no questions, and I’ll tell you no lies”

              Always loved all the security stuff. While in WVa, i worked with the Navy’s intellignce and security group. Like the NSA which It’s all rolled up into now. The facility used to be very obscure hidden in a valley with a seemingling pointless road leading up to it. After 9/11 the place now has more security and fences than most prisons. When overseas picked up a cryto level on my clearances. Working with the dudes in the vaults. sliding peep holes like the speakeasy’s during prohibition. Presidential comm links. Restricted travel, no tours to or over any soviet held territory, or ally. Sometimes a shadow of a fully weaponized marine (italian, they took it much more seriously than the US Marines) when the terror threats were credible. fun fun fun

  11. Just A Citizen says:

    Interesting visit and discussion with a great friend this weekend, who is a “liberal Democrat”, probably one of those the Progressives would call “moderate”.

    I asked him who he was going to vote for, for President. Making a crack about the challenge he faced with the Dem ticket. After making a crack back at me about the Republicans running he admitted he would have trouble voting for the two top Dems.

    His preferences were Kasich and Rubio. He cringed and damn near seized up when I told him Cruz was my man, if Paul does not make it. Interestingly he felt Cruz was “just pandering”. I asked who he was pandering to and he brought up Cruz’s wife working for the big investment bank. We kicked that around but my arguments about Constitutionalism went no where. As I would expect, he doesn’t put much credence in our ability to “understand what the Founders meant” so it is best to move on. On the down side, while he did not prefer Hillary he said he could live with her over all the other Republicans, except the two he mentioned.

    Aside: Note here the ethical disconnect in being upset over Cruz’s “pandering” about wall street and Clinton’s problems, including the same pandering about wall street. So obviously there is more to the Cruz dislike.

    Most interesting was his criticism of Obama due to his arrogance and inability to work with people. He sees the same problems with Trump, Cruz and Cristie. Bush wasn’t even in our discussion, except that he thought Bush would be better than Trump, Cruz or Cristie.

    We discussed the increasing tendency of States to ignore SCOTUS. He admitted the Texas effort to enforce immigration was “kind of a good thing” given who they were catching but hated the State ignoring SCOTUS on things like voting. Why?? It goes to the whole American Culture of “Rule of Law”. I explained the catch 22 in this belief but he was unmoved. Social order is imperative to a “civilized society”.

    We talked about Cuba, as he had recently traveled there. He was telling me how “great” their health care system was when I asked: “What criteria are you using to judge “great”?”

    He said it was great because EVERYONE gets health care and EVERYONE is educated and NOBODY has to go broke doing ether. Of course I pointed out that then availability to those who had not earned the service was his definition of great and not the “quality” of the care. He admitted that the “quality” of the US health care was superior but our system is far “behind” Cuba because EVERYONE is covered in Cuba.

    Aside again: Note here the emphasis in “taking care of everyone”. That is the classic “emotional” criteria that drives most on the “left”. This is why it is almost impossible to counter it with facts, figures or rational arguments. Logic has no place in dealing with emotional empathy. My friend is very smart and can be persuaded by logic. But I can see the tug of war in his psyche when the logic or reason is colliding with his deeper “altruistic” nature.

    We AGREED that the LACK OF CIVILITY in political discourse was disturbing and existed in both parties.

    It was a most pleasant and delightful couple of days visiting with him and his wife again. We parted with big hugs, good byes and the final “poking fun” at each others politics. I just had to send them off with the hope I would “draw them into the fold” someday. 🙂

  12. gmanfortruth says:
    • As our friend on NCIS says, “ya think?”

    • We’ve been in one for thirty years.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        How true, and out of political correctness refuse to admit it. But PC does not extend to whites, christians, conservatives, jews regardless of what political spectrum they belong to, because we are obviously a massive right wing conspiracy….The masive riots in the midlands UK in ’01 were not christian against Muslim, nor Christian against Hindu. They were all muslim against hindu…….but all that was on the BBC over and over was “racism in america, from the few church burnings, that mostly turned out to be insurance scams, not race related. Smoke and mirrors.

  13. gmanfortruth says:

  14. gmanfortruth says:

    Bringing back this subject with an article penned by Ron Paul:

    Congress is Writing the President a Blank Check for War

    Ron Paul
    Prison Planet.com
    January 25, 2016

    While the Washington snowstorm dominated news coverage this week, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was operating behind the scenes to rush through the Senate what may be the most massive transfer of power from the Legislative to the Executive branch in our history. The senior Senator from Kentucky is scheming, along with Sen. Lindsey Graham, to bypass normal Senate procedure to fast-track legislation to grant the president the authority to wage unlimited war for as long as he or his successors may wish.

    The legislation makes the unconstitutional Iraq War authorization of 2002 look like a walk in the park. It will allow this president and future presidents to wage war against ISIS without restrictions on time, geographic scope, or the use of ground troops. It is a completely open-ended authorization for the president to use the military as he wishes for as long as he (or she) wishes. Even President Obama has expressed concern over how willing Congress is to hand him unlimited power to wage war.

    President Obama has already far surpassed even his predecessor, George W. Bush, in taking the country to war without even the fig leaf of an authorization. In 2011 the president invaded Libya, overthrew its government, and oversaw the assassination of its leader, without even bothering to ask for Congressional approval. Instead of impeachment, which he deserved for the disastrous Libya invasion, Congress said nothing. House Republicans only managed to bring the subject up when they thought they might gain political points exploiting the killing of US Ambassador Chris Stevens in Benghazi.

    It is becoming more clear that Washington plans to expand its war in the Middle East. Last week the media reported that the US military had taken over an air base in eastern Syria, and Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said that the US would send in the 101st Airborne Division to retake Mosul in Iraq and to attack ISIS headquarters in Raqqa, Syria. Then on Saturday, Vice President Joe Biden said that if the upcoming peace talks in Geneva are not successful, the US is prepared for a massive military intervention in Syria. Such an action would likely place the US military face to face with the Russian military, whose assistance was requested by the Syrian government. In contrast, we must remember that the US military is operating in Syria in violation of international law.

    The prospects of such an escalation are not all that far-fetched. At the insistence of Saudi Arabia and with US backing, the representatives of the Syrian opposition at the Geneva peace talks will include members of the Army of Islam, which has fought with al-Qaeda in Syria. Does anyone expect these kinds of people to compromise? Isn’t al-Qaeda supposed to be our enemy?

    The purpose of the Legislative branch of our government is to restrict the Executive branch’s power. The Founders understood that an all-powerful king who could wage war at will was the greatest threat to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That is why they created a people’s branch, the Congress, to prevent the emergence of an all-powerful autocrat to drag the country to endless war. Sadly, Congress is surrendering its power to declare war.

    Let’s be clear: If Senate Majority Leader McConnell succeeds in passing this open-ended war authorization, the US Constitution will be all but a dead letter.

    This article was posted: Monday, January 25, 2016 at 8:25 am

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      It will be interesting how the bill being proposed will square with the oaths of office. Particularly “against all enemies foreign and domestic”

      Presidential Oath
      “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

      The Vice President and congress an oath of office, is prescribed by statute.

      “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

      Military Oath’s

      The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):

      “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

      The Oath of Office (for officers):

      “I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the _____ (Military Branch) of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.”

      I always thought there was a phrase about “lawful” orders. But I guess that is suppose to be covered by the Constitution.

  15. gmanfortruth says:

    The IRS has returned the Tax Return to a man in New Jersey after he

    apparently answered one of the questions incorrectly.

    In response to the question, “Do you have anyone dependent on you?”

    the man wrote: “9.5 million illegal immigrants, 1.1 million crack

    heads, 3.4 million unemployable scroungers, 80,000 criminals in over

    85 prisons plus 650 idiots in Washington.

    The IRS stated that the answer he gave was unacceptable!

    The man responded back, “Who did I leave out?”

  16. Dale A Albrecht says:

    This continuing with government action, will NOT turn out well. The people will take it unto themselves to solve the problem. This so coincides with our military advisors experience in regards to Texas and their “taking it into our hands” and not leaving it up the Feds who are just like the EU’s leaders and press.


    The number of articles even more recent detailing the criminal malfesance (sp) are astounding. Apparently the leading news outlet in Germany have said Merkel has ordered them to NOT report the crimes against women that are occuring. She will be replaced.
    By the way….where are all the feminists and womens rights groups in all this? Absent from what I understand.

    • The feminists are liberals first and women second.

    • They were silent too when Willy was playing hide the cigar. Every man in the country knew the score.

    • Europeans are cattle. All the good ones came here or died in the trenches 1914-1918.

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        I’ll bet that Margaret Thatcher would be taking a different position.

        All the “people” not the elites, that had any get up and go and ambition came here.

        What WWI didn’t kill off WWII finished.

        • Personally I do not know how the Brits went wrong. The rest, sure, but these guys stood in ’40, alone.

          I guess Churchill deserves 99% of the credit. Always thought it was telling that after defeating the Nazis but before Japan surrendered, the People fired him!

      • Dale A Albrecht says:

        I can not see her as being polite and trying NOT to offend rapists and thugs.

        The saying…”I’ll have your guts for garters” comes to mind.

        Merkel definitely got re-elected on her shift to an anti-muslim immigration stand. The Swedish prime minister, a lady, absolutely got elected on a anti-muslim immigration stand, but they then turned right around and opened the doors and are suffering the consequences and then adding insult to injury not pursuing the criminals or changing what obviously was a wrong headed policy. They’re quilty of dereliction of duty.
        By ’01 the Dutch were sick to death of the uncontroled immigration, and the followup crimes committed. The Dutch were generally pretty damn tolerant. But they learned when the policy was to not defend yourself. If you did and injured the poor immigrant, YOU were prosecuted. Trust me it’s true. They’d elect more conservative leaders and then the un-elected EU leaders stomped on them. The response was for the ladys to avoid the muslim youth gangs harassing them and other crimes was to not provoke them by covering up and not be indecent by things like riding your bike.

        • Dale A Albrecht says:

          I mis wrote….the prime minister of Norway not sweden is a lady and ran on an anti immigration platform and then switched her position. Cities like Oslo are experiencing the same problems as sweden and germany etc.

          • On top of this, I actually read the intelligence reports….you would be astounded as to what isnot reported….astounded. Like the percentage of girls UNDER the age of 18 being raped/groped and harassed in Sweden, Denmark,Norway,Germany, Belgium, …..

            In Sweden,little girls of the age of 8 and 9 being “kncoked” off bicycles by cars of roving Muslims…the same in Germany. It is getting horrible….and these are not minority groups of Muslims…..it is a large group of immigrants designed to do this……DESIGNED.

            The great society experiment is NOT working in Europe….

            • Dale A Albrecht says:

              It HAS NOT been working for 1300 years. This is just the latest installment. One of the things that gave rise to the Mafia, was not that they were a criminal group. They were where the people could go to get JUSTICE because the “official” government in Rome or elsewhere did nothing.

              Obama alway was not shy about wanting the US to be just like Europe. Bernie Sanders is even more vocal about what his vision for America is. How many more examples of failed societies do we need. Do not emulate them nor try and make a one size government fit all. We have 50 States to have each a laboratory, drilling down to communities. Even our social experiments are crumbling in our generation. Life can be rough aned unfair at times, but since when is it supposed to be a societal suicide.

  17. gmanfortruth says:
  18. gmanfortruth says:

    Situation Report (SITREP) for 2200L 25 JAN 2016

    – Yesterday’s report of a decrease of federal and state law enforcement personnel in the vicinity of (IVO) Burns, OR has been confirmed. Sources IVO Burns report a noticeable decrease of Oregon State Police, as well as federal vehicles and personnel based out of the Burns Municipal Airport.

    – There are probably in the range of 20-30 occupiers still at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, including children.

    – Pacific Patriots Network leadership continues to speak with FBI contacts to ensure open lines of communication with Ammon Bundy. FBI contacts have continued to express a desire to speak with Ammon to find a peaceful resolution, although Ammon’s last two trips to speak with the FBI have been unproductive.

    – Local authorities and media continue to not only be very critical of the Refuge occupation, but play up unjustified fears. Harney County Judge Steve Grasty yesterday cancelled today’s scheduled “public” meeting over “security concerns,” implying that the meeting might cause conditions to be unsafe for community members. Today, Oregon Public Broadcasting quoted the Harney County Schools Superintendent as saying:

    “I had a conversation with a high school student and she wanted to know if someone entered the school with a gun, what was she to do. And I had a 5-year-old come up to me and say she couldn’t sleep at night, because someone was watching her in the trees.”

    – Over the weekend, Grant County Oregon Sheriff Glen Palmer told media that releasing the Hammonds would “be a start” to ending the Malheur Refuge occupation. Sheriff Palmer also offered Ammon Bundy a sanctuary in Grant County, if he would leave the Refuge. Grant County, OR is an adjacent county to the north of Harney County.

    – Eight ranchers in Utah have pledged support for Ammon Bundy and the occupiers, saying that they will also stand up for land rights against the BLM in their state. Those sentiments are widely held throughout the West, partially stemming from the Sagebrush Rebellion during the 1970s and 1980s over the same issue: land rights and federal overreach. The BLM’s tactics of bullying ranchers off their land also contribute to this sentiment.

    – Oregon Governor Kate Brown continues to pressure federal, state and local law enforcement to bring an end to the Malheur occupation. So far, the top executive in Oregon has been unsuccessful in creating momentum for law enforcement action.

    – Last week, former Bonner’s Ferry, Idaho mayor posted the following message to Facebook:

    I served on Idaho’s Boundary County Executive Emergency Board during the Ruby Ridge catastrophe. I had a front row seat to watch a total and complete tragedy unfold. What did I learn? I learned that time is your ally and use of force is the enemy. I do not know any of the parties involved in this latest standoff but I do know absolutely nothing is being harmed by leaving the occupiers alone. The location being occupied wasn’t even being used. Patience and time will win the day. Use of force is the most likely way to end with no one winning. Avoiding another complete and utter tragedy should be the goal not some ill conceived “face saving” action designed to teach a lesson. Lets hope those in authority are more concerned about life than [saving] “face”.

    ANALYST COMMENT: As if being locked in a quasi-standoff with the FBI wasn’t already enough, Ammon Bundy and the occupiers are squared up in a battle over ‘hearts and minds’ with Sheriff David Ward and Judge Steven Grasty. There’s a continued effort on behalf of Sheriff Ward, Judge Grasty, and Oregon state media to influence the people of Burns and Harney County.

    The leftist Oregon Public Broadcasting (OPB), an affiliate of the tremendously left-leaning National Public Radio (NPR), has consistently gone beyond reporting of the news to editorialize and imply a significant danger posed to the community of Burns by a dozen armed men and women currently residing at the Refuge over 30 miles away.

    Two weeks ago, OPB was bending over backwards to score quotes from concerned locals about how scared and afraid they were of Ammon Bundy and the occupiers. Granted, several occupiers haven’t helped matters concerning their image, especially with regards to hot-headed YouTube videos, at least three cases of Stolen Valor, and felonies belonging to at least two occupiers. And that’s given Ammon Bundy and LaVoy Finnicum a significant public relations deficit from the very beginning.

    Were Ammon and LaVoy not so well-spoken, were they not salt-of-the-earth Westerners, were they not even-tempered men who can clearly articulate their position, then the media and the town of Burns would really have something to fear. And Ammon and LaVoy’s ability to humanize themselves and their movement, and deliver their message to the people of Harney County and the Mountain West, has thus far probably helped to save their lives and keep them out of prison.

    The FBI’s diminished presence in Burns, OR could indicate another staging area, away from the public eye of the Burns Municipal Airport. While it’s likely that many involved in the reported shift change have gone back to their respective field offices in Boise or Salt Lake (among others), it’s still possible that vehicles and personnel were moved to another location in order to avoid escalating the security situation and raising public alarm.

    In order to allay the fears of the Burns community, we could possibly see local law enforcement establish travel restrictions for the occupiers. Sheriff Dave Ward could very calmly announce that Ammon Bundy and the occupiers will be arrested if they attempt to enter the town, but would otherwise be left alone at the Refuge. This would allow law enforcement to act in a very public and deliberate manner, alleviating some pressure over their inaction, and give the appearance of taking positive steps to regain control and protect the town of Burns without escalating the situation.

    MLCOA: As long as FBI capabilities remain at current levels and we don’t see any indicators of armored vehicles, then the Most Likely Course of Action is a continuation of what we’ve observed over the past two weeks as the FBI continues to build slam-dunk criminal cases against each of the occupiers.

    MDCOA: The arrival of armored vehicles in the area or the introduction of temporary flight restrictions would signal the Most Dangerous Course of Action, which is putting a cordon in place, escalating the situation, and increasing the likelihood of violence.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      The Governor of Oregon is inflaming this situation for no good reason. COST is not a reason when SHE and the FEDS control the cost. They could pull back their people and the cost would go to ZERO.

      She is a hard core Progressive leftist and had no problem letting Occupy take over city parks for months. This is the first thing I have seen in this event that seems out of the ordinary, odd, if you know what I mean.

      I also do not understand the reports of people being afraid in town. I posted before how people in Burns are a bit suspicious and stand offish at times. So it is possible they feel threatened by all the people running around with guns. That would include LEO and Oathkeepers and their friends. They are not used to people showing up at public meetings armed to the teeth. You see out here in the real west, most of us own guns, but we don’t walk around with them in public very often. People open carrying handguns is a new experience and seems linked to some folks that appear less than fully stable, in my opinion.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I have to agree about the Governor, pretty sad in my opinion. Why would she want another possible WACO on her hands? That be a far bigger mess than this little occupy thing. I don’t expect much from progressives when it comes to intelligence, so I’m not surprised.

        While I haven’t read any media reports out of there in awhile, I would think some of the fear is the result of propaganda rather than any tangible activities. There is certainly a lack of pictures or video’s to back up what’s been claimed. I’m glad it is staying calm, just not sure how long that is going to last. The FBI has a long history of screwing these things up because they become impatient.

        I would send all LEO’s and Fed’s home for the winter. Come back in Spring and see if they are still there. 🙂

  19. gmanfortruth says:
    • Just A Citizen says:


      What do you mean by that? I could easily see them over loaded and not able to get things processed in a timely manner. New applications would have highest priority.

      Background checks are required for many thing beyond just buying guns. The number of requirements is constantly increasing. My wife and I had to get them for taking care of our Autistic son under the Medicaid program. Yes, to continue living with and caring for our own son. It took almost a month to get the results back. The time I had one done about 7 years ago it came back in 48 hours.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        According to the article, it’s because of background checks involving guns, quite simple. There is nothing new about the number of background checks in January, versus last January. I could have understood a temporary relocation of resources to deal with the Holiday season, but it wasn’t significantly higher than any other season since Obama has been elected. What is significant, is that this has not been reported during previous spikes and it only seems to be coming about since Obama has asked for more employees. So YES, BULLSHIT!

  20. gmanfortruth says:
    • I knew something was going on, it hasn’t been long since I read that PP was going to sue CMP-now we find out this-sounds like they had previous knowledge of what the Grand Jury decided. Maybe it’s just wish full thinking but I have a gut feeling that PP is gonna rue the day that these people were indicted.

      • Remember this was Houston with a lesbo mayor…but indicted does not mean convicted. Let’s see what happens. As a defense attorney, I would get a change of venue outside Harris country. I doubt that it gets anywhere….and, something that was not printed….they, the defendents, have an army of “pro bono” lawyers from very reputable firms that are volunteering their time.

        • Let Texas work it out……it will be interesting.

          • It is definitely gonna be interesting.

            • HOwever…..if it is true that these people manufactured and used fake government ID’s to gain entrance and, therefore, got these films using these ID’s…then this is beyond investigative reporting. It is not permissable to do this and obtain information under false pretense in my view….and false pretense, in this view point, are the ID’s regardless if they found out truth.

              They lose credibility.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        The crime is possession of FAKE California drivers licenses that were used to gain access to the PP staff. They will be found Guilty of these crimes because they did in fact commit said crimes. Now note that the possible sentence for this crime is TWENTY YEARS in prison.

        Two questions I have:

        1. Why would they have needed Identification to meet with PP staff? More left wing hypocrisy there it seems to me.

        2. Why would a Grand Jury convened to hear the PP case being reviewing and ruling on the Video people??

        Comment: The media is playing this up as “vindication” of PP. But the failure to indict by the Grand Jury is only dealing with “criminal” actions. It does not mean that PP did not violate federal rules regarding “sale” of tissue or IRS rules governing sales linked to the 501C3 status.

  21. Interesting issue in Dallas, Texas. A single lady moved here from Los Angeles, California and purchased a loft in Downtwon Dallas. It is located in a gated community, with security cameras, restricted access to parking garages, 911 emergency phones prominantly located, motion operated lighting system, and coded elevators. All entrances are coded.

    She is walking to her car and gets assaulted and had the “dog piss” beat out of her. And she was beat pretty badly. She said she noticed a couple of guys acting strangely in the praking agrage but kept walking to her car. In the interview, she was angrily denouncing the owners for not providing proper security for a single female. She was holding up a letter, provided to her when she bought her loft that stated the owners have provided all reasonable security needed for safe living, however, personal security is still your responsibility. The letter went on to say to be careful who you give security codes to as well as who you allow into the gated areas and never give out the codes for elevators and doorways and entrance gates.

    When the Dallas police investigated, they asked her two questions. First, when she noticed two strangers, why did she not turn around and walk a different direction and pick up the nearest emergency phone and, secondly, the officer asked that as a single lady, did she own a weapon. When she replied no…he said…Perhaps you should. Well, this set her off saying that a single female should not have to worry about personal safety where she lives as that is a responsibility of the owners of the complex. She then said that nothing worked..and the police ran a quick check….gates were working, cameras were working and caught the incident on tape, all phones were working, all codes were working…..in short, everything was working. But her attitude on TV was that she should not have to carry a gun anywhere…..

    Well, in a perfect world, not you shuld not….but this world is far from perfect. Had she carried one and pulled it out…..I doubt that anyone would have approached her and if they did……shoot them.

    I am sure some law suit will result…..but I do not think she will find any Texas juries that will see her side of it.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      Many years ago while still living in VT. The city had converted a downtown street in a really nice “walkplatz” Nice shopping, entertainment, bars, restaurants. But also at the same time Bernie created a very liberal giveaway program that drew homeless, and others like flies. In the winter they headed south to warmer climates. There also was a parking garage about mid street. It had two entrances. One was for the cars and the other for pedestrians after you shopped or ate. problem was it was a dark alley with a couple blind alcoves, that one could not see into unless you were right on them. They were perfect ambush spots for unwary people. It was a good bet that you would get mugged if you went into that alley, especially at night. If you were aware of the situation you would see the assistants to the mugger start fill in and block your escape route and if the mugger was impatient they’d stick their heads out to see if you looked muggable.

      Bottom line is that if you took reasonable care and payed attention you’d be OK. Assume it was safe and you became a statistic.

      I was always aware and never became a stat. My girlfriend at the time would have just blindly walked in if I hadn’t stopped her.

      All in all VT was a pretty safe place, then and I do not know about now. But according to one of our finest here in town, VT has more liberal gun laws than TX. Bad bet to assult or B/E, unless one is from MA, CT or NY and are taught to be passive. Specifically in the VT constitution has the words in the Right to bear Arms section, is the right for PERSONAL defense.

  22. gmanfortruth says:

    I had posted some stuff about the Authorization for Use of military Force Bill that Mitch McConnell is using rule 14 to get through the Senate. It was stated that there were no limitations under the Bill, which means that A president can use US troops on US soil. This, coming from a Democrat on the Senate floor, exposes it fully:

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Unprecedented authority? I don’t think so! You want to see what open ended authority looks like?


      The difference between now and then is that even FDR understood that “conclusion” meant and formal “treaty” or “armistice” ending hostilities. He would not have used the authority to continue operations under the guise of “additional related action to mitigate acts by Japan or Germany”.

      Now obviously the nature of the enemy has also changed. Since there is no nation state does even Congress have the authority to declare war or give war powers to invaded nation states that are NOT AT WAR WITH THE USA?????

      I am arguing here that Congress does NOT have that authority nor does POTUS have the authority to take such action abroad where there is not an imminent threat to the USA. Now if the left wing SCOTUS ruled in a consistent manner they would agree with me. If the right wing SCOTUS ruled in a consistent manner they would also agree with me.

      Remember, Jefferson’s action against Tripoli was directly linked to attacks on US ships. It was not because Tripoli or the pirates were attacking our allies or threatening the trade routes in northern Africa to other nations.

      P.S. The Senator did not mention even a remote connection to the resolution and the ability of POTUS to deploy troops on US soil. This resolution does not and cannot trump the other laws preventing such deployment unless amendment to those laws is specifically mentioned in the resolution.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Per the Senator, the POTUS would have the authority to send troops to ANY country where he deems ISIS to be a threat. That was easy.

        . This resolution does not and cannot trump the other laws preventing such deployment unless amendment to those laws is specifically mentioned in the resolution. While I agree, I don’t think they care anymore what we think.

        After watching this video, I still want to read the bill, which I think will end up getting passed and signed into law. Consider the Fast Track law that was passed for treaty’s, which I feel is totally unconstitutional, and then this one, if all of this is correct and it passes, It sure seems as though Congress is neutering itself. Just a thought.

  23. Just A Citizen says:
    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      That is pure unadulterated BS. it just more proof of the intolerance of Islam and how far the Europeans will go in suppressing their culture and heritage to not offend. Did Rouhani appreciate the gesture. I doubt it. His only thought was how messed up the Europeans are. This conquest is going easier than I thought it would. Do the Europeans seriously think their art will survive if islam prevails. They will not be content to just taking a hammer and knocking penises off nude male statues. An over zealous pope did that.

      just ask the Hungarians what the muslims did to them. that is why Hungary shut their border instantly and are weathering the abuse other nations in the EU, UN. are heaping on them.

    • Dale A Albrecht says:

      In one of the articles above this one posted by JAC on Huffpo. Denmark parliment unanimously passes a new law regarding these “migrant’s/refugees” To qualify for State aid they must meet all the requirements that a Danish citizen must meet to get any assistance. All assets above that sum will be confiscated unless it is of sentimental value. About 1,000 euros.

      The UN is apoplectic…how barbaric and inhumane etc etc. Amnesty International mouthed off. Un elected EU leaders, got in the swing of it. To beat all the former Sec Gen of the UN Kofi Annan stepped in and decried how terrible the policy is……and this comes from a guy who when he controlled the UN military and peacekeeping actions, ORDERED the forces in Rwanda to step aside and basically condoned/condemed 600,000 people to death. Now that is calling the kettle black. That guy belonged in jail for crimes against humanity.

  24. gmanfortruth says:
  25. Dale A Albrecht says:

    Here is a change of pace to our serious discussions. “Rodents love Honda’s new Soy based wiring cover” Going green isn’t such a good idea in this case. Even 30+ years ago rodents loved to eat and chew wiring causing untold amounts of damage to wiring in buildings, computers you name it. At least 20 years ago a scientist in a University in either NM or AZ came up with a solution. Just mix in some capsalum in the covering. Nothing but a starving human would eat it. Coat pier pilings, paint intake and outflow ducts where shellfish larvae will attach. They won’t and they stay clean. Making edible wiring coating how stupid.

    • This appears to have all occurred on a lonely stretch of rural road. A simple “traffic stop”. It will be the Bundy’s word against the cops as to what went down. I lay odds there were a dozen vehicles and at least 2 dozen officers armed with assault rifles. Just my speculation.

      The OWS crowd took over city parks and squatted on public land for months in the heart of our cities impeding free movement and driving business away from the local shops. The BLM movement caused riots, injuries, and property loss. The Bundy’s are in a remote closed federal facility bothering no one. What is so egregious about the Bundy protest compared to the others?

      • Just A Citizen says:


        They occupied a FEDERAL facility and the Feds don’t have near the sense of humor the left wing City mayors have.

        OK, that was sarcasm. Looks like the Feds snookered the whole bunch. Arrests on the highway, in Burns and in Arizona. No Oathkeepers to prevent the gun fight.

        I am sure the Feds expected a shoot out of some kind and they were armed to the teeth. I only wonder why they waited so long to use this tactic. They had several other chances along that stretch of highway. Maybe they had to let Bundy think they would continue letting him go to Burns and back to attend meetings.

      • T-Ray asks “What is so egregious about the Bundy protest compared to the others?”

        They are white terrorists that cling to their constitutions and guns.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Well planned Western ambush. I had wondered how Bundy was being allowed to attend meetings. Now we know.

  26. Just A Citizen says:

    It is going to be interesting to see what happens to Fox New’s ratings in the coming weeks.

    I watched the first 20 minutes of Megyn Kelley tonight. It was sickening….me, me, me, me, I want to talk about me. And then she sits there laughing it up with Michael Moore.

    Trump is correct about one thing. Kelley has been taking shots at him every chance she gets. It happens in who she interviews and the nature of her questions. I think the lady is full of herself and it is time she gets her comeuppance.

    I watched her interview of the Texas Governor about his proposed Const. amendments. Her questions and arguments were text book Progressive defense of the “living document” and the Socialists view of freedom and liberty. Her ignorance about the intentions of the Founders was shameful.

    Ailes may be as deaf as the Republican establishment. “No candidate will control the press”. Oh, poor press. Maybe he missed his own polling data showing WE DO NOT TRUST THE PRESS anymore. And Fox News has shown itself to be nothing better than the rest of the MSM.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Agreed. They are no better than the rest.

    • JAC…..it is amazing that everyone falls for the Trump moves…..Shit, I could see this one coming last week. The media claiming Trump wants to control them all the while they are trying to control him. He set up a nice ambush and they fell for it. And, he is still getting the notoriety……

      The MSM and the other Repubs are all calling him a “whiner” but who is doing the whinning? Remarkable. Absolutley remarkable. It is very simple….I am a front runner…you already know my positions…why do I need to walk into the Lions Den just to re-enforce what you already know? The Repubs are all upset because they do not get to pick on him and they now may have to actually say what their positions are and take the questions.

      Megan Kelley just lost me, now…although she still has great legs…..AND Fox showed its colors with their prepared “press release”……wow.

      It boggles the mind…….just boggles the mind.

      NOTE: To Cruz…my friend, you are losing Texas. Stop acting like a child and show some of that Texas Independence that made you a Senator. We did not care about your Canadian born self then and do not care now…..because you showed fight and independence. Now you are acting like the rest…..grow some balls, take your stance….or you will lose Texas.

      • Additional note to Cruz: Trump is not going to be there….so stop challenging him to open debates. You are an experienced debater….you know how to double speak…he will not fight you on your ground. Quit calling him a coward and quit worrying about him not being there. Everyone and their dog knows his stance…..so take his political stance head on….not him. Understand, this is Texas….calling him a coward and other names brings up memories of ” I know you are but what am I ” or ” I am rubber and you are glue…what bounces off me sticks to you “………you are acting like Pee Wee Herman.

        Trump would be stupid to debate you head on…….so….here is a piece of advice. The best way to get to Trump is through his policies……hammer his policies and not him. The more you go after him, the more it looks like establishment politics……hammer him on his statements about deal making…..that shows that his stance is going to be compromising with the left. HIT HIS STANCE..HIT IS POLICIES….HIT THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE…..

        Trump is going to attack the establishment…..you did at one time.

      • He may be getting the notoriaty-that doesn’t mean it’s good notoriaty-am I the only one who believes skipping the debate is a mistake-Trump is coming off as a narcissistic, immature, ranting child.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          He does come across that way because he is that way, in my view. I thought it a mistake at first. Then I remembered how Ms. Kelley has been poking at Trump almost nightly. Her voice drips with sarcasm and disdain when she utters his name. And the “eye rolling”, good lord.

          I think pulling out was a good thing, but he should have just said no and not commented on Kelley. Everyone would have understood the why. Then he could have discussed the ridiculous nature of the debate system and how the media is trying to control the outcomes.

          Now if he makes it to the general there are some other networks that are going to have issues. They will want to use moderators who have been openly hostile in their coverage. Mr. Trump just fired a warning shot across the “fleet”.

        • Hi VH…..I do not believe his skipping the debate is a mistake….they have had too many already. How many times can you clarify your position….now, that said…..any front runner that consistently puts himself into the firing line will eventually get shot. It is pretty common place to let the chasers………chase. Iowa is a battle….not the war. The objective is to win the war. Reagan win the war and lost a battle or two. Fox News just fell off a cliff in my opinion and I am an avid fan. Megan Kelly lost me as a supporter and they are all upset and why? Because the top front runner is not going to show up? Who is the cry baby here….Trump is coming off as the winner here because he is viewed, once again, as fighting the MSM as well as the establishment. Skipping this debate is not going to hurt him at all…

          The narcissistic attitude right now is Fox News….they are showing their colors.,,,and they will end up losing ratings. At least that is how it appears to me….but Cruz needs to march on if he wants to win Texas. He is coming off as the immature one down here because we do not like the school yard approach. We just do not. And, let me very clear….Trump is not my man…I do not know who is as yet and Cruz will lose what respect I have left if he continues his whinning ways…..he needs to not worry about Trump and do what I said….attack his policies and stances.

          Here is Trumps weakness……deal making. Deal making scares the hell out of me because it usually means compromise….however, if he does approach deal making the same way as a businessman…..where you always win on the deal….that is different.

      • Just A Citizen says:


        Good morning my intrepid Texican friend.

        The howling and stupid remarks about Trump over this reveal the type of thinking that led Mr. Obama into several bad agreements.

        A key part of any negotiation is the willingness to walk away. To worsen your opponents position in order to create a win-win for all parties.

        While I do not like Trump he wins this round in my opinion. And all the cackling about him whining and what happens if Putin insults him is far more revealing of those making those statements than it is of Trump.

        I am also disgusted by the Fox using the term “terrorize” to describe Trump’s campaign person’s discussion with them. Claiming that the campaign didn’t want to see Kelley’s ratings decline again is not even close to being “terrorized”. Who is the whining baby now??

        Can you explain what Cruz is saying that is bothering you. The only speaking I have seen he is talking tough and standing his ground. In fact a little to tough on some things, like ISIS.

        • You ask, “Can you explain what Cruz is saying that is bothering you.”

          Yes sir….it is not the what, it is the how. Please bear in mind, I am a bragadocio proud Texan…I exude Texas Independence….Cruz once had this…he has lost it. If he stands his ground like Trump, and quits whinning and quits trying to please ALL sides, he will gain Texas back. He does not need to attack Rubio or Trump….quit making it personal and go after policies and why his policies will be better. What is bothering me the most, is Texas is swinging towards Trump and the reason is all about attitude. Cruz needs to forget Trump and he needs to forget Rubio and quit trying to gain favor from all sides. Take a stance…….stick to it……and do not pander to any one……NO ONE. Adopt the attitude of our Governor Abbott…..I will do what is right for Texas and not what is popular. I do not care what the SCOTUS nor the President says, I will do what is right for Texas.

          Cruz needs to say, I will do what is right for the USA…Not the minorities, not the Mexicans, not the Europeans but the USA. I do not care about the court of public opinion in the world…I only care about the USA. Russia can go to hell, China can go to hell, Europe can go to hell….It is the USA ….period. He needs to do this….but what the problem is…he is considered establishment even though the Senate hates him. People are feeling that he will be the same old Washington dip shits that we have now.

          He has lost me, for now, on financial support. To date, I have not supported anyone…and I actually worked his campaign to get him elected as a Senator….. I actually raised right around $500,000 for him but he has changed and he has changed to act like Washington DC….I do not see fight in him. I see wimp…..at least right now.

          • Sir,

            I like what Gov. Abbott is doing down there. Y’all might have to push him towards POTUS in the future. 😉

            • Why would we do that?…..we want him to be the new President of the Republic of Texas when we leave the union. Of course, you may come and live with us and know what real freedom is like.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            I to disagreed and did not care for Cruz going after people in the last debate. Except to take Trump on over the birther issue.

            Since then I have not seen or heard any other such behavior. Which probably means that we out here are not getting the full coverage you must be getting. A few Cruz ads have been running on radio and TV, and these are what you say you like. Taking on the establishment is “the whole purpose of the campaign”.

            Lack of info is also related to Trump sucking up all the media attention. The only time we see coverage of another candidate is when Trump takes a shot at them.

            I agree with most of what you are saying. Cruz needs to make the case to the public that his brand of Constitutional conservatism is NOT going to destroy the country, as is being portrayed by the left and the Rhinos. Stay to that effort and don’t worry about the others.

            Unless attacked. Then just throw a single grenade their direction and move on.

            Along these lines, Rubio has taken on some of the petty behavior. He has continued to decline in my view as a result. These two rising starts should have stuck to their own belief system and told the “consultants” to pound sand.

            • I knew you had a brain up there somewhere…….but yes, I want a President that when he sits down at the negotiating table with…saaaay……Putin. I do not even want the word compromise in the dictionary. You deal from strength and you have a goal in mind and you NEVER…NEVER…stray from that. I want a PResident to walk away from a Putin saying something like, ” When you come to your senses, comrade, call me “. I want Putin going home sniffing his own arse wondering what the crazy old USA is going to do next, I want Putin worrying about the US using the dollar to break his ass….I want Putin worrying about who opens the “football”. ( Nuclear case for those of you who do not understand what the Presidential Aide is carrying “) I want China to worry about whether or not we sink their navy the minute they try to stop one of our ships or over fly it. I want a President that would have sank the Island of Farsi for even daring to touch one of our sailors. I want the “Lions trembling in their dens”.

              Until you have this…you have no negotiating room.

              Cruz is not coming off that way, now…..he used to. Trump is coming off that way. I simply love the idea of the world being afraid as I even type this that Trump might get in……I am sick and tired of namby pamby and the staff of chicken little’s.

        • You said, ” A key part of any negotiation is the willingness to walk away. ” You left out the second half……not only the willingness to walk away but actually do it.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Goes without saying, unless your a Texan. Then I guess someone needs to splain it to ya!

            • Well, sir……this calls for a retort of some kind…..but…..in my dealings with OTT’s ( Other than Texan ), it has come to pass that several things have different meanings…..my answer to you was not intended for YOUR ears…..if you catch my drift ( or am I being arrogant….which is ok as well as confident people are always perceived as arrogant and/or obtuse ).

  27. gmanfortruth says:

    So Trump bails on the debate. As one would expect, He’s getting hammered, it’s going to hurt him etc. Every time he has done something that the MSM thought would kill him, he gained popularity. I see this here as well. He will explain that he had to show the people how he would deal with people who have been bad to him (or, the country) and he knows how to make them pay, economically (lower ratings). He tossed them a bone and they took it. Let’s see if this prediction plays out.

    • Think he should have gone and used the Reagan line, “There you go again! ” if she asked him something stupid.

      When she first got her show I watched. Within a few months her whole persona changed and she became strident. I hate strident! If I want strident I will watch Hillary or Sarah Palin.

  28. gmanfortruth says:

    UPDATE! It’s over! Considering the government’s history with these things, one dead is minor. I’m hearing it was suicide by cop. The refuge was raided shortly after the arrests on the highway. No word of arrests there at all, they may have all been gone. One of the things from the last update above that caught my eye was this: – Over the weekend, Grant County Oregon Sheriff Glen Palmer told media that releasing the Hammonds would “be a start” to ending the Malheur Refuge occupation. Sheriff Palmer also offered Ammon Bundy a sanctuary in Grant County, if he would leave the Refuge. Grant County, OR is an adjacent county to the north of Harney County.

    The arrest was made on the highway to John Day, Oregon, in Grant County. From my understanding there were some videos going around that were not what Bundy wanted to be going around with some of the other occupiers. There have always been concerns that some may have been provocateurs. My initial view of this event:

    Bundy and his crew were going North to probably give up in Grant County. It could have been a set up all along, the whole sanctuary offer. The others (until more info comes out), went South, East and West. Let’s see what info comes out as it’s sketchy at best.

    Reports are that Pete Santilli, a alternative news personality was also arrested in Burns with another person. He wasn’t well liked in Burns, so his arrest is not a surprise.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Info coming out on Santilli is that he identified an FBI agent embedded with the occupiers and showed his picture to Bundy and the occupiers last Saturday. Maybe that’s why he was arrested.

      • Yes there is a video of Santelli outing an undercover FBI agent. I could not be sure from the video if he was trying to join Bundy’s group or was part of a counter protest by econuts at the compound. I am leaning to the latter. I also watched some of Santelli’s live feed from last night. It started at the hospital where he was trying to get information about the wounded brought in. He then received a phone call ostensibly from the sheriff’s office saying the occupiers would have a free pass out of the compound if they left immediately. Unfortunately he was having problems getting through on the phone to the compound. There were not enough vehicles at the compound for a full evacuation. They then proceeded to the FBI compound in Burns to get clearance to return to the compound to evacuate women and children. He was warned to stay away so could not approach for a discussion. He then went I thought to city hall or to another blockade point to request permission to enter the area to evacuate people. At this location he was arrested. The other occupants of his vehicle were not approached nor was the vehicle searched. They left the scene and returned to their motel room.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Santilli has been there since the beginning. Noone likes him, outside of California, that I know of. He was on Bundy’s side, but trying to report it as a middleman. He’s nothing but an attention whore.

  29. JAC and VH………….the worse thing that could happen during the debates is to attack a man that is not there. That will be viewed as piling on….the next worse thing that Fox could do is leave an empty podium up there because all it will do is draw attention from the debates to the empty podium.

    So, Cruz needs to shut up and just answer the questions. Make no reference to the empty podium and no reference the “man who wasn’t there”. Forget Trump…he is gone. Let him stay gone

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Smart guy that Trump. Limit his exposure to mistakes, keep the focus on HIM, make others look like fools and probably has a plan to deal with any fallout later. I believe it was Reagan that skipped a debate leading up to the Iowa caucus’s as well. Brilliant strategy!

    • Little NY History, when Bobby Kennedy challenged Ken Keating, NY’s long term Republican Senator in ’64 he was not all that popular. Being a “carpetbagger” resonated then. The old man keeping a suite in the Plaza for assignations with high priced whores for him and his sons did not really constitute a residence.

      Anyway it was a surprisingly close race with Rockefeller being very popular in NY and the state GOP in his pocket basking in his sunshine.

      Keating challenged Bobby to a debate which Bobby did not accept. On the appointed day, Keating was in the studio with a vacant podium next to him that he intended to debate. At the exact instant the debate was to start Bobby Kennedy, with live cameras, appeared outside the locked door of the studio demanding to be let in, banging on the door. Well, they did not let him in. What a mistake.

      So just remember, when people dump on Trump as being a master manipulator, the late, sainted RFK could put him to shame. RFK was shot my graduation from college weekend. I woke up that morning to my Dad sitting at the kitchen table. Dad was a sane, nominal democrat. He broke the news to me by saying, “The most dangerous man in America is dead”. The Astor Bar being across the street from the NY Times, I never realized that their Master Night time bartender (Dad) got to close the bar by listening to the NYT reporters who just put the paper to bed having a final drink. He was privy to some stuff that nobody knew. I had always wondered why he was so hostile to the Kennedy’s.

  30. gmanfortruth says:
  31. Yesterday Rush was brilliant, in my opinion. At first I thought he was attacking Trump over comments that he could “work” with Pelosi and Reid. Rush went on to how some of us want to stomp rather than work with these two. I was waiting for the other shoe to fall. If you left early you took away the wrong impression.

    Then, after about 15 minutes he noted that Trump’s book is called “the Art of The Deal” not, “The Art of the Compromise”. He then proceeded to attack the Republican leadership for the past seven years who, when they haven’t just stood down, have compromised (like the budget deal) and gained what? The right to sell our oil overseas?

    He went on to talk about how Trump just re-defined the presidency into getting what he wants by dealing. Sure you give but more importantly you get. What you get is what you want and need. What they get is something that makes them look good to theirs and save face. Never mentioned Reagan or even alluded to him but I could feel it in the room. The contempt in his voice for O’Bama giving in on oil exports and the hollow, ridiculous “victory” that Ryan claimed made it all the more important.

    • I recommend that every one read this book. It is a great lesson to be learned.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Interesting. I found it if little value, lacking in information and insight. Except of course how the corrupt politicians work in the big cities and how fluff can win out over substance when the target is desperate. In short, how UNETHICAL people behave.

        • Yes,,,but that was the point of the book….He pointed out the ethics of deal making with people who have no ethics.

          • Tonight I turned off Mark Levine. The guy is bombastic as hell but again is one of those “principled” conservatives who are incapable of accomplishing anything. Took the exact opposite tack on what Rush said about Reid and Pelosi. He’s is in the pound them into the ground which I would love to do too but probably can’t.

            Going back to the sage advice from the old man again. Back when I started working in my own NYC neighborhood for the Neighborhood Preservation Program, I came home all enthusiastic in ’72 that we would “change” things and “right” the wrongs and bring the hood back to where it was circa 1955. The old man said clearly and succinctly, “If it took 30 years to screw it up it will take 30 years to unscrew it”. He was right. It did.

            Politically we have been on this crazy slide since 1965 with a little time off for Reagan who concentrated on destroying the greatest threat to mankind ever, the USSR. So if we got the most Conservative President we could get it would only be the beginning of a forty to fifty year process which would involve mass education of the populace so they understand what this country was designed to be. Nothing which will last and grow can be accomplished in a short period of time. First you win, then you beat them back an inch at a time.

            Another very important thing and in retrospect something both Guiliani and certainly Bloomberg did not do in NY. As things improve, one must constantly remind people of how bad they were. Right now, we have a Mayor, Governor and President who want to backslide on the biggest success we had, putting the repeat offenders behind bars and keeping them there. Maybe in Podunk IL or Porkchop AL, people go to jail for minor crimes. In all the major and intermediate cities, the folks who wind up in jail are repeat offenders often sentenced for lesser crimes that were plea bargained down from bigger ones. . We have already seen the Prez pardon people who, when the record comes out may have pleaded down the last crime but have prior rap sheets a mile long.

  32. Trump does not need Iowa…..and what the hell can he say now that he has not said already. Let Cruz take center stage. He needs to build his base stronger…if he leaves Trump alone in the debates, he will do well…..but if he piles on Trump, just as the media is pilng on Trump….Cruz loses. He will be perceived as another flunkie. He does not need to take on Trump head on…..simply state his position and leave it to the people. If Cruz is asked a question about Trump he needs to not answer it by saying, I am giving my position this evening and you can compare the two.

    When Trump antagonizes people and they feel that they need to respond….Trump wins.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Flipped on FOX news for a few minutes to see if there was anything about the Oregon issue. They are simply trying to pound Trump into the ground. Ten minutes of nothing but Trump bashing. I turn the channel to CNN, and after a commercial, decided to talk about the Oregon issue, only to outright LIE right from the beginning. Amazing, in 15 minutes, my distrust of the media has been reaffirmed, even though that was not what I was looking for.

  33. Copenhagen, Denmark (CNN) Danish lawmakers voted Tuesday in favor of controversial legislation empowering authorities to seize cash and valuables from asylum seekers to help cover their expenses.

    The law was passed in parliament by 81 votes to 27, with one abstention.

    The passing of the so-called jewelry bill allows the seizure of valuables worth more than 10,000 Danish kroner (about $1,453).

    Items of “special sentimental value” such as “wedding rings, engagement rings, family portraits, decorations and medals” are exempted, according to the Danish Ministry of Immigration, Integration and Housing. But “watches, mobile phones and computers” can be confiscated, it says.

    The legislation has been criticized across the political spectrum, appalling many in this northern European nation, which has a longstanding global reputation for tolerance and promoting liberal, social democratic values.

    When Denmark does this………wow.

  34. gmanfortruth says:

    I will make a prediction, just for fun. Fox News will not have Megan Kelly as a moderator tomorrow and Trump will show up. They will save face by Megan Kelly getting on TV and taking the high road. She don’t want the debate to be about her, when it should be about the candidates. Lets see how this plays out, rather entertaining. 🙂

  35. Just saw one of the Fox News guys……Greg something or other……claiming that if the right wing and left wing media do not get together and destroy Trump, they belong in the classified ads section……

    The reason of his diatribe was that Trump “threatened” Megan Kelly……..I will bite….what was the threat to her?

  36. Just A Citizen says:

    A good summary of how many are feeling. NOTE……………..FEELING. NOT THINKING.

    Like those who denigrate philosophy and claim action is virtue unto itself.

    Without a compass you can act and react all you want. The odds of you getting the hell instead of heaven greatly increase.


    • Are those explosions I am hearing all over this country? This article is spot on and I usually do not read much from this source.

      I can identify with actions……when on the battlefield or in business…most of the time, you have to react to circumstance….you can plan, you can hope…but when reality strikes, you do not withdraw to the boardroom or the map room to reconsider…..you act and you act as the situation dictates. No apologies, no discourse, no political correctness….you react and then you improvise as the situation allows. Your only stopping point is when you have stopped the flow of blood or stemmed the tide of reality….can you take a breath and try to plan once again….but you must always be on guard and you must always be ready…..and you must learn from the past….you put a mark on the wall and you do not make the same mistake twice. Most people that I know, take the path of least resistance. They take the path of someone else will do it….they stick their heads in the sand thinking that the wolf will pass by….but when their ass becomes a snack, only then do they act….but they usually run to another spot, dig a new hole and hope it never happens again.

      This is a sad commentary of the USA today. Self respect has been lost, independence has been lost, Creativity has been lost…..and political correctness is the new pariah that is sweeping this country faster than the plague took Europe.

  37. Have been flipping around myself, this evening, from MSNBC to CNN and Fox News…..I do not get it…..the more they hammer Trump, the more he will gain. He is going to go do his own thing and they hate that,,,,,he is breaking the mold…..LOL>…he really has everyone going and it is fun to watch.

    • Just A Citizen says:


      Was just doing the same. MSNBC, Lawrence O’Donnel was going nuts, claiming a Democrat will clean Trumps clock in a 1:1 debate. Apparently he thinks the amount of time you talk relates to substance. ROTFLMAO.

      Did see some of what you were talking about with Cruz. Hannity baited him into commenting on Trump, is he afraid, is he not afraid, why is he really doing this.

      You are dead on. Cruz should have just said, go ask Trump. Now lets talk about why I AM THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB.

      • This is crazy…..Trump knows what he is doing…..and the pundits are falling for it. They do not know how to think out of the box and I think they are under estimating what is out there.

        Want trump to go away???Leave him alone. He has all the money he needs to buy airtime and he will. The establishment cannot out spend him…..

  38. gmanfortruth says:

    The Burns Oregon standoff is over. Times have changed, as this month long event had little real coverage in the MSM. There was no investigative journalism, like we once had in this country, that would give insights as to what was causing this event to take place. This is similar to the Bundy Ranch standoff, while the event was covered, the cause and reasoning for everything was mostly ignored by the MSM. Times have changed. The media is controlled and will do what they are told by their government bosses. The sad part is that this isn’t s conspiracy theory, as CNN has already admitted as much, with little fanfare. The dumbing down of America is almost complete, the only thing left is the internet and alternative media (and blogs such as this). They are coming, the new laws are already written. It won’t be long before we have an official “Ministry of Information”.

    With that, we will end this thread and begin a new one. Rest in Peace Investigative Journalism, we will miss you.

    • Sorry, but there are no journalists left. They went the way of Statesmen/women which went the way of the dinosaur.

      • I have to agree. I looked last night to find a narrative of what happened at the :traffic stop” but only found the official story. I would like to know how many vehicles and officers were at this traffic stop? Also how many shots were fired and by whom? Who fired first? What were the circumstances under which the one individual was shot? Was he actually pointing a gun or using one or just refusing to cooperate? The story is too one sided and too pat.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          All shots fired by the FBI agents. The guy killed was unarmed. He screwed up by walking towards agents, with hands in the air, after he went down from being shot, he was shot a couple more times for good measure. All of this from a female witness who was in the truck but not arrested.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Number of shots fired, around 120.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Note to self: Trying to go around a FBI roadblock is now the same as a death sentence.

  39. gmanfortruth says:

    There is a new thread posted, see you there 🙂

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