The Popular Vote? The Electoral Vote? A Conundrum

EC3By: The Colonel

In the first two installments, I presented both arguments and, as I stated before, I saw no major differences except the quest for power and control. So, I thought it over from several angles and I can see no reason to change the current process as I feel that it is the best representative, although imperfect, process that will give the entire country a say in the Presidential elections.
Most everyone knows the history of the Electoral College, hereinafter referred to as the EC, and the reason it was established. Electoral votes are allocated among the states based on the Census. Every state is allocated a number of votes equal to the number of senators and representatives in its U.S. Congressional delegation—two votes for senators in its the U.S. Senate plus a number of votes equal to the number of its members in the U. S. House of Representatives. This is as simple as it gets.
Now, the largest argument that I saw on all the liberal sites was that the EC does not represent the country as a whole. I saw many representations and sleight of hand to try to show the numbers of voter power. I read how a voter in a large state does not have the same power as a voter in a smaller state and Mathius tries to use this argument claiming that his vote counts less than a vote in Montana. So, since Mathius is our resident liberal, he gets picked on a little. He can handle it. He likes to use the population figures. I will use the same logic to show how he perceives this not to be a correct depiction of the vote. I will even use the example from a left wing site using the State of Florida and the State of Wyoming.
MSNBC used the following: “Under the electoral college system of voting, the number of representatives a state has in Congress (Senators and Representatives) is the total number of electoral votes it is allowed. That means every state is allowed a minimum of 3 electoral votes. In 2016, Florida had 29 electoral votes and 9.4 million voters, created a voter value of 0.72. Wyoming had just 3 electoral votes, but only had 255,000 voters as well. That created a voter value of 2.85.”
Note that the comparison stopped there. It did not go into the “rest of the story.” The EC only matters in the Presidential election. All other elections are decided within each sovereign state where the population vote rules. This is as it should be. Because what goes on in each state is that State’s own business. But I do not see Mathius saying that New York has 29 electoral votes to Wyoming’s 3. So if I were to extrapolate this…..does this not mean that New York’s influence is actually 9.6 times greater than Wyoming? This is based solely on the population of those states. Any state gets to use its influence to elect whatever local representatives that it chooses…all liberal or all conservative or even third party.
There are numerous ancillary arguments about whether three or four states (the most populous ones) should dictate the direction of the country. The arguments on the other side are why should three or four states have this power over the majority of the country simply because of population. This type of representation does not take into effect the cultural nor geographical issues that each individual state has. The people of each state elects their representatives of the EC and the EC votes according to each individual state’s desire. So, where is the discrepancy?
This Colonel using Mathius’ math and even the math of MSNBC, by living in Texas, actually has more to lose than New York. Our representation is even lower than New York on a population basis but higher than New York on the electoral basis due to population. So, in a Presidential election, population does have a say in how the EC is made up and representing that specific state. I like the EC because it allows for a more even representation of the entire country, from my point of view
There are other ancillary arguments but this one seems to resonate as number one on several of the sites.
Now, this Colonel, also recognizes that the electoral process has a way of eliminating a possible third party. But, I also do not think that the Democratic nor Republican Party wants a third party. Hence, we have only two political parties unless a third party can gain influence in individual states.
Possible solution: Do not have a winner take all in the electorate process in the States…I will use Texas, for example. Texas has 38 electoral votes. If the Republican Party in Texas wins 70 % of the vote, then there would be 26 EC votes for the Republican and the rest distributed according to the vote…this means there could be a third or even a fourth party. If every state did this, then just add up the electoral votes at the end. You do not have to worry about the 270 threshold. The top Electoral candidate wins….in the event of a tie, there is a process in place to break the tie.

Comments

  1. 😎

  2. But I do not see Mathius saying that New York has 29 electoral votes to Wyoming’s 3. So if I were to extrapolate this…..does this not mean that New York’s influence is actually 9.6 times greater than Wyoming?

    Wait just a cotton-pickin’ second!

    This is exactly to my point!

    NY has 9.6x Wyoming’s influence in Presidential elections.

    BUT

    NY has 33.7x Wyoming’s population.

    See how that works? Our “power” fails to scale with our size. Sure, we have more influence… because there are more of us… we SHOULD have more influence. Why? Because we outnumber you 33:1.

    But we don’t have commensurately more power.

    Does this make sense?

    With 33.7x the population, we should get 33.7x the influence. But we don’t.

    We get 9.6x the influence.

    Which really means that they get more influence PER PERSON than we do.

    Which really means that each PERSON in Wyoming has a bigger vote for President than each PERSON in New York.

    ————–

    A better way to look at this is as follows: How much of a vote does each PERSON get?

    In Wyoming, there are 577k people and three votes. This works out to ~192k people per electoral vote. Or, flipping that around, each PERSON gets 1/192k’th of a vote or 0.0000052 electoral votes per person.

    In New York, there are 19.54m people and 29 votes. This works out to ~674k people per electoral vote. Or, flipping that around, each PERSON gets 1/674k’th of a vote or 0.0000015 electoral votes per person.

    0.0000052 votes per person (Wyoming)
    vs
    0.0000015 votes per person (New York)
    vs
    0.0000013 votes per person (Texas)

    It’s that simple. MY vote counts for 0.0000015 votes. A Wyomingite’s vote counts for 0.0000052. Almost exactly 3.5x mine.

    His vote counts for 3.5x what mine does. Yours, Tex, counts for even less.

    JUST because of where he lives.

    It’s that simple.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Doesn’t matter how many fans you have. You only get to put 11 men on the field at one time. And just because your men weigh more than mine doesn’t mean you get extras. Their added size is enough advantage for you to carry the day. Unless I can come up with some trick play.

    • Mathius, if only 10 people from each State and that States EC votes went to the winner, the numbers would be the same in 2016. The number of voters don’t matter in Presidential election, it only matters who wins in each State, and then the STATES actually pick the President. This would make more sense if you would understand that the Federal government was made by the States to begin with, so the States SHOULD pick the President. This is why we have the EC, so all States are represented in the Presidential election based on population. Odd how nobody on your side pissed and moaned when Obama won twice 😀

      • Odd how nobody on your side pissed and moaned when Obama won twice 😀

        Nobody on “my side” pissed and moaned when Obama won because (A) they liked him (B) he wasn’t a raving lunatic and (C) HE WON’T THE MOST VOTES FROM CITIZENS.

        t only matters who wins in each State, and then the STATES actually pick the President.

        No, I get that. And that’s why it IS the way it IS.

        But that doesn’t make it right.

        States are not people. People are people.

        I know this makes the vein in your forehead pulsate, but states are just sub-districts of the United States. This wasn’t always the case, but it sure is today.

        Screw the states. Only PEOPLE matter. And, so, only PEOPLE (and sentient canines) should get to vote.

        • It is what it is…Very true and it’s likely gonna stay that way. Not even sure why popular vote is even a point of discussion for POTUS, it’s NEVER going to happen under the current Constitution.

          • … doesn’t mean we have to be happy about it.

            The system is skewed in your favor – of course you’re not going to let us un-skew it.

        • he wasn’t a raving lunatic , well true that, Obama wasn’t openly a raving lunatic, but he was without question the WORST POTUS in my lifetime. 🙂

        • “Screw the states.” I believe that’s the point. If the states are screwed, so are the people living within them. By people who could care less about each states individual needs.

          • Maybe – maybe not.

            But the current system is “screw the big states and everyone living in them” while also managing to say “screw any liberals living in red states” and “screw any conservatives living in blue states” and also “Ohio and Florida will get to pick the winner each year, so really, screw EVERYBODY other than a handful of swing voters.”

            • Except as far as I can see the a few large population states still have a greater chance of winning the electoral college than many smaller states togeather. If they still can’t win – they shouldn’t.

              • But they have so much trouble winning because their power does not scale in-line with their size.

                As discussed above, NY is 33x the population of WY. But it only gets 9.6x the votes.

                In order to keep us from winning, the system is rigged so that our bigger populations don’t result in commensurately bigger power.

                It seems blindingly obvious to me that if 65,844,954 (48.2%) vote for Candidate A and 62,979,879 (46.1%) vote for Candidate B, then Candidate A should be President. Anything other than this is a gimmick that changes the power of certain voters… in favor of some.. and against others.

                It’s that simple.

                WHERE you live shouldn’t matter.

                It shouldn’t be Red States vs Blue States. It shouldn’t be “states” at all. It should be PEOPLE who vote. Because I am person, a legal US citizen. And so are you. And my vote should be the same as yours for the guy (or gal) who gets to be the head of our shared government.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              OBJECTION

              The current system does not screw the big States. They still get more power than the smaller States. Just not enough to make you happy. Only twice in recent years did it not work out the way you wanted, popular = EC. Both times it was because of the nature of the candidate on the Dem side. Clinton being the worst. And by that I mean the disproportionate vote she pulled in only a few Blue States. Gores split was far closer, and of course there was the Broward County problem.

              The only reason this has come up twice in recent years is because of the increased segregation of the States along party lines. More and more Dem oriented types in the few Big States with Rep. oriented people increasingly spreading out to the smaller States. I suspect demographics will continue to change and eventually swing back to a more balanced condition. Once the Big States realize that this move to Socialism is bunk. And they stop with all the election fraud. Fewer dead and alien votes means more Republicans elected.

              • The current system does not screw the big States. They still get more power than the smaller States. Just not enough to make you happy.

                Just not enough… to keep up with their larger population.

                By not keeping up with the larger population, our votes count less than yours.

                It’s that simple.

                Only twice in recent years did it not work out the way you wanted, popular = EC.

                “We only hijacked the government for 8 years (12 if you count W’s 2nd term)… and during that time appointed life-time judges and made and set policy you hate and rolled back policy you like and and and and. But it only happened twice in recent years, so it’s no big deal, so shut up and take it.”

                Both times it was because of the nature of the candidate on the Dem side. Clinton being the worst. And by that I mean the disproportionate vote she pulled in only a few Blue States.

                See, this is what you keep missing….

                “And by that I mean the disproportionate vote she pulled in only a few Blue States.”

                Why do you give a shit WHERE those votes came from? Are those voters in the blue states not VOTERS? Are they not CITIZENS? Are their votes somehow less than yours because they live in a blue state?

                It shouldn’t matter.

                Yet, because they’re blue voters in a blue vote, their will should mean nothing? We shouldn’t care that millions more of them wanted Clinton than Trump. Because they’re living in California, their votes can be cast aside as meaningless and uncounted.

              • None of your blather matters because the EC sytem was NEVER about the country’s popular vote. It was in fact designed to keep the bigger states from having too much power over the smaller states. Its working too and will continue to work regardless of the Left’s whining.

                But you know this. SMH

              • None of your blather matters because the EC sytem was NEVER about the country’s popular vote.

                Agreed.

                That’s what it WAS and what it IS. But not what it SHOULD BE.

                It was in fact designed to keep the bigger states from having too much power over the smaller states.

                Agreed.

                Its working too and will continue to work regardless of the Left’s whining.

                Debatable, but irrelevant. The system is archaic, representing a time when states were small nations within a larger nation (kind of like Texas thinks it is). That time has passed. These days, it’s just a thumb on the scale so that Red Team stands a chance because otherwise they’d have to stop being such extremists and move back to the center in order to win elections. 😛

      • Just A Citizen says:

        None of that matters.

        He wants a popular vote election for POTUS because it feels right to him.

        Now give him credit where it is due. He wants it changed but he wants it changed the right way, by amending the Constitution. Not playing the games the Dem states are currently playing with their “compact” which delegates one State’s power to others, thus completely disenfranchising the voters of that State.

        • Probably true. But even Mathius knows an Amendment will never get passed. So do the Crat’s, so they are trying to CHEAT. Fortunately, the Courts has already slapped them down.

        • He wants a popular vote election for POTUS because it feels right to him.

          It’s not a question of “feels.”

          It’s simple. Stop making it complicated.

          My vote should count equal to yours.

          That’s it.

          My vote should carry the same influence as yours.

          That’s it.

          Whether I living in Texas or New York or DC or Wyoming, it should count the same, carry the same weight.

          Whether I’m a liberal in a red state, or a conservative in a blue one, it should count the same.

          That’s all.

          Anything other than this is over-complicating the question

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Mathius

            It is you who complicates this. Your vote counts ONE. My vote counts ONE. They have equal weight in deciding who wins in our respective States.

            The States have votes for POTUS which are weighted by population, GIVEN a fixed number of house members and senators. The House membership is the problem, within the Republican framework.

            “The masterpiece was the decision to have the president elected by an Electoral College ensuring that the president had widespread support throughout the country rather than being a regional candidate put in office by running up a large margin of victory in a small number of large states.”

            You think it should……………. I think it shouldn’t.

    • No sir….it is not that simple…New York has 9 times the influence than Wyoming….it is THAT simple…..you cannot conflate popular vote with electoral. That is like trying to average percentages…..cannot be done.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Colonel

        He is not conflating………..he is REJECTING the current system as being “antiquated”.

        Remember, he thinks the States should be nothing but Administrative units of the Federal Govt. He thinks that Democracy is the only proper form of Govt., at least regarding vote counting. I think he realizes a “pure” Democracy is unworkable.

        • He is not conflating………..he is REJECTING the current system as being “antiquated”.

          CORRECT.

          Remember, he thinks the States should be nothing but Administrative units of the Federal Govt.

          CORRECT.

          Further, I think the states ARE nothing but administrative units of the Federal Govt.

          He thinks that Democracy is the only proper form of Govt., at least regarding vote counting.

          CORRECT.

          I think he realizes a “pure” Democracy is unworkable.

          CORRECT.

          Representation is needed (though shitty).. but each PERSON should be represented equally.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Mathius

            That last point is the problem. I see no way that can happen in any Representative form of govt. unless the number of reps is increased significantly.

            Any winner take all, no matter how small the area, by its nature fails to represent the losers.

            • It sucks… but it should at least be fair.

              If it has to be a winner take all, as there can only be one President, then everyone should get an equal vote. Where the voting citizens live should have no bearing.

  3. Just A Citizen says:

    One of the greatest lies ever told. The President represents all the people.

    This myth is, in my view, partly responsible for the emotional desire for a popular vote. The left obviously thinks they would win every time with a popular election. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be pushing the idea out of principle.

    It is important to note here that not all Dems are on board with this popular election idea. It comes primarily from the faction that also supports Democratic Socialism.

    • The left obviously thinks they would win every time with a popular election. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be pushing the idea out of principle.

      This is true.

      As far as it goes. But let’s be fair and give the corollary, shall we?

      If the right thought they could win more often with a popular election, they would be pushing the idea while the left argued against it.

      Mathius, however, would still think it’s a pile of antiquated horse-shit.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Mathius

        I am not sure the “right” would be. Because after all, their nature is to be “conservative”, as in maintain the status quo.

        I think it more likely they would scream about Illegal Aliens voting and other voter fraud being the problem.

      • It’s possible, but I am a strong supporter of states rights. I personally believe that is why this Country has been as successful as it has. I may talk bad about California and all the crap laws they pass. But that’s them, Tenn is Tenn. But if I feel California has to much power to control my state, that’s a whole different ball game. I believe the last time we had a real clash about state rights. We had a civil war.

  4. Just A Citizen says:

    Mathius

    Don’t want you to forget this:

    Mathius

    Yes we did, a very long discussion. I agree with BF on this one. Obligation and duty would not fit in my view.

    I think it is more emotion combined with long time teaching of watching out for the vulnerable.

    But where I was going is what YOU think. So YOU believe you have an obligation to save the blind man.

    Is it safe to assume you hold the same for any man or woman, or child???

  5. Just A Citizen says:

    The Texican has proposed an interesting variation on the Electoral College. Needs some thinking.

    Meanwhile,…………. Congress simply needs to increase representation in the House to more closely represent the people. Somewhere along the lines of the original 30,000 people per Representative.

    The Alternative would be to reduce the number of seats in Congress yet proportion the remaining number the same way. But then restructure the State elections to allow a bottom up approach to selecting representatives. Then have the States vote on issues and provide direction accordingly to the State Representatives.

    • Meanwhile,…………. Congress simply needs to increase representation in the House to more closely represent the people. Somewhere along the lines of the original 30,000 people per Representative.

      Provided the EC followed suit, this would be acceptable to me as it would “drown out” the overrepresenting effect of the Senate.

      That said, having ten thousand people in the House of Representatives seems……… problematic. Then again… my town would have 33 representatives… I could probably win one of those seats…

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Mathius

        This is more feasible today than ever before. All ten thousand do not have to be in D.C.. Of course then the power structure wouldn’t be able to control them as easily.

        Here is another thought for you.

        If the Executive were limited to the powers originally intended nobody would care about the EC because the stakes of winning the POTUS seat wouldn’t be that great.

        If the Wizards in Black Robes stopped making laws based on political viewpoints, nobody would care about the EC, because the stakes of winning the POTUS seat wouldn’t be that great.

    • Holy crap JAC….nothing gets done with 538 members……..

  6. Just A Citizen says:

    One thing that REALLY, REALLY should be fixed is using the Total Census count to allocate House seats. The subtotal of “Citizens” should be used instead of the “Total” number.

  7. WASHINGTON, D.C.—As they enter into the high-stakes 2020 race, Democrats are growing concerned that they don’t have a solid strategy for taking on Donald Trump. But now, the universe has given them an answer in the form of new baseless Kavanaugh accusations published by the New York Times.

    Democrats began tripping over themselves to rally their base using the proven, effective strategy of obnoxiously screaming about the Supreme Court justice.
    “Remember how well this all worked out for us last time?” said Kamala Harris excitedly as a coalition of Democratic leaders got together for a strategic session. “It is time for us to turn the obnoxiousness up to 11. The American people really went head over heels for us last time. Booker, I want you to give one of your big, epic speeches. Those always speak right to the heart of middle America.”
    Booker nodded in the affirmative and began to launch into a speech but Harris cut him off again. “Save it for the campaign trail, Spartacus. We’ve got to start tweeting about Kavanaugh ASAP.”
    “Alexandria, you’re really good at the Twitter thing. Start tweeting right away!”
    Ocasio-Cortez then looked up from her phone, which was clearly running Candy Crush. “Oh, I wasn’t listening. I was thinking of something else.”

  8. Just A Citizen says:

    On the Citizenship question on the Census.

    Dems just don’t make sense to me. They argued that the question would discourage Illegal Aliens from answering the questions. They hire thousands of people to go door to door to make sure the Census is complete. The Dems have get out the vote organizations flooding the areas each election. They can’t get out the word to fill out the form????

    Now here is the one thing that really get me. Do they really think these people will avoid filling out a form just because of this question? When all they have to do is CHECK THE BOX marked Citizen.

    Here is the real evil in their argument. WHO is it that is telling the illegal aliens that ICE will use the census to find them????????? It ain’t the Republicans.

    • They argued that the question would discourage Illegal Aliens from answering the questions.

      NO!

      They argued that LEGAL foreigners / minorities would be less likely to answer the form. Especially if they had illegal family.

      The Dems have get out the vote organizations flooding the areas each election. They can’t get out the word to fill out the form????

      Sure.. I’m sure they could…

      So let’s give the Blue Team a headwind and make them work to ensure they get their votes counted while the Red Team remains generally un-impacted.

      Do they really think these people will avoid filling out a form just because of this question?

      Yes… obviously, they DO think this, or they wouldn’t bother fight it.

      SIMILARLY, Red Team obviously thinks so, too…

      The letter filed Thursday alleges that Hofeller had conducted the survey on adding a citizenship question for the Washington Free Beacon in 2015.

      And it said that Hofeller wrote that the results of adding the question “would be advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites,” “would clearly be a disadvantage for the Democrats,” and would “provoke a high degree of resistance from Democrats and the major minority groups in the nation.”

      https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/446113-new-filings-allege-gop-redistricting-motivation-behind-census

      Here is the real evil in their argument. WHO is it that is telling the illegal aliens that ICE will use the census to find them????????? It ain’t the Republicans.

      It wouldn’t be the Democrats… the Democrats would rather they fill out the form, even if it meant getting deported. Cui bono. Red Team wins is Latinos don’t complete the form. Not Blue Team. So if someone is pushing the narrative that filling it out will lead to deportation, the logical culprit is Red Team.

      Cui bono.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Your argument fails if the Dem team knows it makes not difference in reality. It only keeps the RACE baiting alive and well so they can maintain their base among their favored identity group.

        Please note that the R quote you provided is not dealing with people NOT filling out the census. I will give you one thing, I am sure there are people on both teams who game it to their advantage. But as an organization, I put the blame squarely on the DEMS when it comes to this and Voter ID.

        It is all about allocation of House Seats. Do you really think that the R’s want this question so they can influence redistricting in California???? Like they are going to have any say over that…………..

        • But as an organization, I put the blame squarely on the DEMS when it comes to this and Voter ID.

          But, as an organization, you almost ALWAYS put the blame squarely on the Dems, regardless of the topic at hand.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Mathius

        Also included in your cited article was this argument by those opposing the question. Tell me what is WRONG with this conclusion, relative to the quote you also provided.

        ““The new evidence demonstrates a direct through-line from Dr. Hofeller’s conclusion that adding a citizenship question would advantage Republican and non-Hispanic whites to DOJ’s ultimate letter,” the document reads. “The new evidence thus not only contradicts testimony in this case, but it shows that those who constructed the VRA rationale knew that adding a citizenship question would not benefit Latino voters, but rather would facilitate significantly reducing their political power.””

  9. What I really want to know….that if the states did like two states have done…..allocate the electoral votes to the proportion of the vote they get, does that not solve the problems? It seems to me, then, every vote counts in the way that Mathius wants.

    However, I am willing to bet that in New York, the republican candidate would get 30 percent of the electorate. But that would accurately reflect the State of New York…the same would have been for Texas. Clinton would have received 40% of the electorate.

    Now, would this system not give third parties a greater chance?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Colonel

      It would be closer but still not pass his test. WHO GETS THE ROUNDING ERROR????

      If all the States did this then the system would have to be changed to allow just the plurality of Electoral Votes to make a winner.

      I agree on the “other parties” issue. I do not see how changing the EC or even going full popular vote changes anything for third parties. It would increase the chances of a third party being a TRUE SPOILER, however.

      Currently a 2% vote count has no effect on the election. But 2% of the Electoral Vote is enough to sway an election.

  10. JAC,

    You have a company. For whatever reason, you’ve decided to allow the employees to cast votes on certain universal policies policies. Say, “should we serve pizzas or tacos on Tuesdays.”

    Now, obviously, it should be Taco Tuesday, but you let them vote anyway.

    You have 5 department heads, each with an 5 employees. Each Department gets 1 vote.

    Does everyone get an “equal” vote?

    Maybe.

    Dave is in Department D and wants Tacos… but 3 of the employees in Department D always vote for pizza no matter what. Even if it’s pineapple pizza. So Dave gets no vote. Because his department, by majority rules, will always vote pizza. Dave is disenfranchised.

    But, ok, the system is fair… ish.. I mean, there could be a pro-Taco block on another team. Maybe.

    Then your company grows, you take on 10 new employees in Department C (widget production). At the same time, you fire four people from the A team.

    Wait a minute, cries C-leader, we have 3x the people, but still only get one vote!

    “You’re right!” you cry, and give them two votes.

    A and B leaders then start bitching… C Team gets so much more power than us! It’s not fair, boo hoo!

    And C team is still a little pissed. Yes, we get more power, but we get two votes for fifteen people.. that’s 2/15’s of a vote per person, or .133 votes per person. All the employees on smaller teams get .2 votes per person. What gives, gripes C-team? We should I get less say than Bob, just because Bob is on B-Team and I’m on C-team? 3x the people should be 3x the representation!

    Carry (of C-Team) continues… And Amos (of A-Team) gets a whole vote just to himself! Why should Amos get the same vote as an entire team just because he’s in a department by himself? I have 15x his number, but I only get 2x his vote.. how is that fair!

    Pipe down, says Bob… your team still gets more votes than my team. Twice as many! That’s double. Don’t you understand? You have two and we have one. If you can’t win with that, maybe you don’t deserve to win!

    Says Charlie (of C Team), yes, we have TWICE the votes, but we have THREE times as many of us. That’s not how proportions work! 2/15 is less than 1/5.

    Then it happens… the vote comes out:
    A: 1-0 (1 pizza, 0 taco)
    B: 3-2
    C: 0-15
    D: 3-2
    E: 3-2

    The final vote is 4-to-2 in favor of pizza.

    WAIT A SECOND, screams Chuck (of C Team). 10 people voted for pizza. 21 people voted for tacos. We should be having tacos!

    Shut up says Dave (of D team)… most of those votes came from “a disproportionate vote pulled in only” C-team.

    “So what,” says Chaz (of C team).. “aren’t we employees, too? Who cares what group we’re in? Why does the fact that you’re in sales and I’m in production mean you should get your way when there are more of us than there are of you?”

    “You’re just a sore loser,” says Ed (of E team)… “just accept the election results loser. Pizza for everybody! It’s really about the departments anyway… people vote and then the departments pick pizza or tacos.”

    Carrie (of C team) responds “Departments aren’t people. Departments don’t eat pizza OR tacos. People do. And more of us was tacos than want pizza. WHERE we are shouldn’t matter.”

    “Yea.. I like getting a vote all to myself… it’s super fair this way,” mumbles Amos through his gap-tooth.

    “SAD, “cries Amos (of A-Team)… “pizza derangement syndrome.”

    ———————

    See anything wrong with any of this?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Yes I do. You wasted far to much time creating another hypothetical that was not needed in the first place.

      You have your ways of calculating, I have mine.

      You don’t like the system, …………… I do. I have my reasons and it goes to gaining support and acceptance over a broad land mass with a very diverse population. That and actually having a conclusion to a Presidential Election within a reasonable time frame.

      • You wasted far to much time creating another hypothetical that was not needed in the first place.

        CORRECT.

        You have your ways of calculating, I have mine.

        But mine are simple, straight forward, and logical: one person, one vote.

        Yours are messy, convoluted, biased, and contorted: your state gets three Special Votes plus extra for the population of your state (but this number doesn’t increase proportionally with that population), and you get a regular vote within your state, then the winner of your state gets all of those Special Votes (unless you live in Maine or Nebraska) and then those Special Votes go to Special People selected by the party that won the majority of regular votes in your state and then those Special People go and pick the President.

        You don’t like the system, …………… I do.

        Could it be because it favors you?

        Maybe that’s unfair or unkind.. you – far more than most – tend to be unmoored from the bias of such things… but I can’t help wondering why it is that this is contentious for YOU. I would think that you should see the simple clarity of one-man-one-vote for the Chief Executive. Instead, you cling to this antiquated, anachronistic, arcane, and antithetical (to wear out a single letter of the alphabet) system.

        I have my reasons and it goes to gaining support and acceptance over a broad land mass with a very diverse population.

        To win half-plus-one, you’d have to be very diverse and very broad. It’s not like you could “just win NYC” and be done with it… Even if you bagged 100% of the population in the top 10 cities, you’d have ~26.4mm votes… about a third of what you’ll need… and to convince everyone in the top 10 to vote for you, you need to have some seriously skewed policies which would certainly alienate the rest of the country.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Keep this up and I will take more votes from your state and give them to………….. maybe I will just hold onto them and put them up for auction next year.

          • I wonder what the market value is of one Electoral Vote.

            If you could auction it off today, say, stolen from NY… what would the RNC pay for that? It’s probably worthless… but it might be Suuuuuppppppeeeerrrrr valuable…. low odds though…. …. $150k… best I can do.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Mathius

          To answer your quesiton: Maybe that’s unfair or unkind.. you – far more than most – tend to be unmoored from the bias of such things… but I can’t help wondering why it is that this is contentious for YOU.

          It is contentious because I have read so many of the arguments presented on both sides when it was invented. They are just as relevant today. I posted the following above but reprint here because it captures the essence of it.

          “The masterpiece was the decision to have the president elected by an Electoral College ensuring that the president had widespread support throughout the country rather than being a regional candidate put in office by running up a large margin of victory in a small number of large states.”

          While the arguments and principles have not changed all that much, the one thing that has is the gross increase in population relative to representation. But this issue affects representation and thus our Republican form of govt. far more than who wins the POTUS race.

          It was the designed purpose of the Senate to cool the passions of the people. But when one House Member represents a million or more people, that member also acts to cool the passions of the people, because he/she is more likely to be captured by special interests. Which could be party leadership as much as some corporate interest.

          Just adding House Members is probably not the answer alone. Since, as the Colonel said, we would have over 10 thousand of the critters. So we need to figure out how to build representation from the bottom up that reflects the mix at the larger national level.

          I would also return election of Senators back to the State Legislatures. Provided those were truly more representative of the citizens within the State.

          • “The masterpiece was the decision to have the president elected by an Electoral College ensuring that the president had widespread support throughout the country rather than being a regional candidate put in office by running up a large margin of victory in a small number of large states.”

            It’s a fair concern.

            So propose an alternative that (A) gives each person an equal vote and (B) does not result in such regional candidates*.

            ————-

            *I suppose in the interest of completeness, we should also consider say “socioeconomic” candidates or “racial” candidates. I could envision a candidate “for the poor” promising all kinds of goodies and running up huge margins in the bottom few percentiles in exactly the same way as a “regional” candidate might win based on regional interests.

            • Just A Citizen says:

              Mathius

              This is part of the problem, that being “sub groups”. The issue only exists because of D vs. R subgroups. It only gets worse with each new category added.

              You cannot meet the desires of groups while trying to maximize individual power of the vote.

              But lets dissect accurately.

              Every person has the same power in their vote. One person one vote. So this is not the precise problem.

              The issue is that Your Representatives do not provide the same proportional representation as mine do. We have about 0.877 million per House member, NY has about 0.319 million per House member. This doesn’t mean your vote counts MORE or that you have MORE representation. It means that your Reps are MORE likely to represent their constituents than mine.

              Note: Our population could go up another 500 thousand and probably not affect the number of House seats. Once you get your second one it takes a lot more to get your third and so on and so forth. It also depends on what other States are doing population wise. It is the issue or proportional representation that in turn affects the EC because each House member is an Electoral College vote.

              Note: I am not addressing this with Senators included. They represent the States on equal footing, per the Constitutional requirement that all States be admitted on equal footing. That and the Senate is supposed to be the State’s Primary representative in Congress. The House is supposed to be The People’s Chamber…….

              So let us start by making the Representation equal. Since you are convinced we little States are screwing you I will allocate your House Seats to equal ours. We have 2 Reps for 1.754 million. Let’s round that to 2 million or 1 million per Rep. Assuming no new seats at 2 million. So NY, with 8.623 million people should have 8.6 Representatives……….. lets round up to 9.

              Oh hell, WAIT A DAMN MINUTE…………… it looks like NY has 3 times to many Representatives, 27 vs. 9. OR….NY has 3X more Representation than poor lil’ Idaho.

          • Just adding House Members is probably not the answer alone. Since, as the Colonel said, we would have over 10 thousand of the critters.

            Ugh… someone grab me a can of RAID…

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Oh, and there is this.

      The EC vs. Popular vote has SAVED US FROM TWO POTENTIAL DEVASTATING electoral disasters in my life time. Gore and Clinton II. Bwahahahahaaha

      • Of course, you know, I’d argue exactly the opposite 😛

        I’d also suggest that a “good outcome of a bad system is not a reason to keep a bad system in place.”

        • Just A Citizen says:

          And you would be WRONG AGAIN.

          I do agree with the last part though. I just happen to think the EC is the BEST system of those proposed so far. Especially if the number of House seats was increased.

          Kind of like Capitalism isn’t the best, just the best of those available.

    • Wow….Mathius…..with math like this….you need to be in the Fed.

  11. (bringing this forward because I’d like to see someone other than me take a real crack at this one)

    ————————–

    Since about that time, war had been literally continuous, though strictly speaking it had not always been the same war. For several months during his childhood there had been confused street fighting in London itself, some of which he remembered vividly. But to trace out the history of the whole period, to say who was fighting whom at any given moment, would have been utterly impossible, since no written record, and no spoken word, ever made mention of any other alignment than the existing one. At this moment, for example, in 1984 (if it was 1984), Oceania was at war with Eurasia and in alliance with Eastasia. In no public or private utterance was it ever admitted that the three powers had at any time been grouped along different lines. Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible.

    ……

    On the sixth day of Hate Week, after the processions, the speeches, the shouting, the singing, the banners, the posters, the films, the waxworks, the rolling of drums and squealing of trumpets, the tramp of marching feet, the grinding of the caterpillars of tanks, the roar of massed planes, the booming of guns — after six days of this, when the great orgasm was quivering to its climax and the general hatred of Eurasia had boiled up into such delirium that if the crowd could have got their hands on the 2,000 Eurasian war-criminals who were to be publicly hanged on the last day of the proceedings, they would unquestionably have torn them to pieces — at just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally.

    There was, of course, no admission that any change had taken place. Merely it became known, with extreme suddenness and everywhere at once, that Eastasia and not Eurasia was the enemy. Winston was taking part in a demonstration in one of the central London squares at the moment when it happened. It was night, and the white faces and the scarlet banners were luridly floodlit. The square was packed with several thousand people, including a block of about a thousand schoolchildren in the uniform of the Spies. On a scarlet-draped platform an orator of the Inner Party, a small lean man with disproportionately long arms and a large bald skull over which a few lank locks straggled, was haranguing the crowd. A little Rumpelstiltskin figure, contorted with hatred, he gripped the neck of the microphone with one hand while the other, enormous at the end of a bony arm, clawed the air menacingly above his head. His voice, made metallic by the amplifiers, boomed forth an endless catalogue of atrocities, massacres, deportations, lootings, rapings, torture of prisoners, bombing of civilians, lying propaganda, unjust aggressions, broken treaties. It was almost impossible to listen to him without being first convinced and then maddened. At every few moments the fury of the crowd boiled over and the voice of the speaker was drowned by a wild beast-like roaring that rose uncontrollably from thousands of throats. The most savage yells of all came from the schoolchildren. The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker’s hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! The next moment there was a tremendous commotion. The banners and posters with which the square was decorated were all wrong! Quite half of them had the wrong faces on them. It was sabotage! The agents of Goldstein had been at work! There was a riotous interlude while posters were ripped from the walls, banners torn to shreds and trampled underfoot. The Spies performed prodigies of activity in clambering over the rooftops and cutting the streamers that fluttered from the chimneys. But within two or three minutes it was all over. The orator, still gripping the neck of the microphone, his shoulders hunched forward, his free hand clawing at the air, had gone straight on with his speech. One minute more, and the feral roars of rage were again bursting from the crowd. The Hate continued exactly as before, except that the target had been changed.

    The thing that impressed Winston in looking back was that the speaker had switched from one line to the other actually in midsentence, not only without a pause, but without even breaking the syntax.

    ————————–

    Donald Trump demands pre-conditions to meet with Iran. Therefore, he has always demanded pre-conditions before speaking with Iran. It followes that any past or future agreement with him was impossible.

    Anything to the contrary is ThoughtCrime.

    • “It followes that any past or future agreement with him was impossible.”

      * It follows that any other past or future position was impossible. That it never happened and never will. Reports saying otherwise are, therefore, Fake News.

      • Forget the Fed….you belong in Congress.

      • Ok, Mathius……I read through all of the transcripts of the last couple of weeks pertaining to Iran and this pre-conditions thing………Here are a couple of examples…..

        July 30, 2018: During a press conference with Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, Trump said of Iran, “I do believe that they will probably end up wanting to meet, and I’m ready to meet any time they want to.” Asked if he would have pre-conditions for a meeting, Trump said, “No pre-conditions. No. If they want to meet, I’ll meet. Anytime they want. Anytime they want. It’s good for the country, good for them, good for us, and good for the world. No pre-conditions. If they want to meet, I’ll meet.”

        July 31, 2018: White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley was asked, “Is the President still willing to meet with the Iranian leader, no pre-conditions?” Gidley said, “That’s not changed. But he’s been clear on what he wants from Iran, and that is to end its destabilization efforts, its actions of being the world’s largest state sponsor of terror.”

        June 2, 2019: Pompeo said at a press conference in Switzerland: “We’re prepared to engage in a conversation with no pre-conditions. We’re ready to sit down with them. But the American effort to fundamentally reverse the malign activity of this Islamic republic, this revolutionary force, is going to continue.”

        June 23, 2019: Trump said he was not looking for war but that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He added, “You want to talk? Good.” Chuck Todd, host of NBC’s “Meet the Press,” asked him, “No pre-conditions?” Trump responded, “Not as far as I’m concerned. No pre-conditions.”

        June 23, 2019: Vice President Mike Pence told CNN’s Jake Tapper, “The President of the United States has made it clear we’re prepared to talk to Iran without pre-conditions.”

        August 28, 2019: Gidley said on Fox News, “Well, listen, he has been clear that he wants to have conversations with the leaders of Iran without, you know, pre-conditions. He’s been very clear about that. And he was clear in the G7 as well. But the fact is, Iran is under a maximum pressure campaign by this president because of its decades’ worth of malign behavior.”

        September 10, 2019: Appearing together at a press briefing, Mnuchin and Pompeo said within moments of each other that Trump was willing to meet with Iran with “no pre-conditions.” “I think you know we’ve done more sanctions on Iran than anybody. And it’s absolutely working. Now, the President has made clear he is happy to take a meeting with no pre-conditions, but we are maintaining the maximum pressure campaign,” said Mnuchin.

        ————————————————-

        I see no preconditions here…………….UNLESS, people wish to say that it is implied through our sanctions………I did see a blurb where Trump called it fake news that he said that and it appears so if you stop the interview there but if you waatch the whole interview, it is clear to me that the fake news issue was NOT about pre-conditions…and even then….is it just the term “fake news” that bothers you? Why does that term bother you? you do not really need to answer it, I know why it bothers you….you have been clear as to the why. This is much ado about nothing.

        And a follow up…..do you think that Trump is looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran? Does “locked and loaded” carry a “fog of war” immuendo? Do you see it as a threat because I do not.

        • I see no preconditions here…………….UNLESS, people wish to say that it is implied through our sanctions………I did see a blurb where Trump called it fake news that he said that and it appears so if you stop the interview there but if you waatch the whole interview, it is clear to me that the fake news issue was NOT about pre-conditions

          I’m not sure what “interview” you’re referencing because I was looking at this tweet:

          Now, maybe he’s giving himself some “out” by saying “no conditions” instead of “no pre-conditions”.. though I’m not entirely sure what “no conditions” would mean in-context as distinct from pre-conditions when talking about whether he’d meet with Iran. I’m just going to go ahead and call bullshit on that “out” should anyone be foolish enough to grab at it. Anyone trying for this loophole is obviously so in-the-tank for Trump that there is no sense having a conversation with them because they have downed a near-fatal dose of the Kool-aid (*cough* G-Man *cough*)

          is it just the term “fake news” that bothers you?

          What bothers me is that his statement is – yet again – factually false. In blatant defiance of overt empirical reality. He has been quite clearly on the record, both personally and through his agents, as being wiling to meet with Iran without conditions.

          For the press to report that FACT is fine.

          For him to call them liars for it – and that is what he’s doing by calling them “fake news,” is not ok. It’s a LIE.

          Will you call it a lie? Will you call it a smear?

          What are we to make of someone who will, so brazenly, deny objective reality and blast those who fail to bend to his fevered imaginings? Is this not the very definition of gaslighting? Is this how a mentally well person acts? Were he not the President and were, instead, your buddy from your days in the service, would you not be worried for his mental health?

          And a follow up…..do you think that Trump is looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran?

          Honestly, at this point, I’m fairly confident that he does not hold a consistent worldview from minute to minute about anything beyond “winning good” “wall good” “immigrants bad” “Muslims terrorists” “Ivanka sexy” “Democrats bad” and the like.

          If he is looking for an excuse, he’ll make one up on the spot, insist it was always the case, and call us liars if we question it (and his backers will unflinchingly groupThink their way into knowing this new truth which is, of course, not “new” because it has always been and always will be true. Because The Leader said it). His boosters will re-write history, contort themselves into knots, and find a way to believe that this is not only the truth but the fulfillment of some long-held master plan made manifest by their Dear Leader’s brilliant talents at 13-dimensional chess and that he not only “owned” Iran, but humiliated the disloyal, unamerican, socialist Democrats in the process.

          Why would he fire Bolton.. or did Bolton resign? And then jockey for a war with Iran? After promising he’d keep us out of wars in the M-E..? But then also gibbering about “locked and loaded” but then saying we “are waiting to hear from the [Saudi] Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!” Because he is waiting for instructions from a foreign government for when and how to use our military, but he would never “lead from behind.”

          Who knows? It’s like predicting leaves in a hurricane.

          It’s like staring into the abyss. Madness stares back at you, if there even is a “you,” and you begin to see patterns that exist only as ripples of your own thoughts projected upon the canvas that is without form and contour yet is always whatever he – the Leader – commands it to be for that moment in time and space, should he similarly ordain that that moment persist in existing. Time and space do not exist ourside of His will, nor energy nor matter, nor any of the fundamental particles even unto the most minute. There is only that which Donald Trump permits to be and that which he does not in his capricious godhood.

          We are but motes within the eye of his mightiness. Transient flitting thoughts and when we are forgotten, or when it no longer suits his divine will, we shall not perish. For we never were.

          Does “locked and loaded” carry a “fog of war” immuendo? Do you see it as a threat because I do not.

          Of course it’s a threat.

          But his words are meaningless.

          Quite literally: without meaning.

          They are sounds that we take to mean things, but which do not carry objective meaning in the way of language. He will quite freely change them retroactively or deny them outright at any time for any reason based on nothing more than his latest whim, and so what are we to make of them? Shall we not impose our own projections onto the words, reading lingua franca only to be shown time and again that, worse than simply wrong, we are the true liars, the fake news for having dared, nay blasphemed, to interpret his sacred utterances?

          Sure, they’re a “fog of war” innuendo… a threat of war… a posturing… until they’re not, and he never said that, and you’re misinterpreting the words he never said, and the Fake News was inside you all along.

          ::crushes Red Bull against forehead::

          • Hey…take a chill pill……I was not attacking you. I watched the CNN news clips on this interview….but….fake news is no big deal to me..I am so tired of hearing it I could croak on a churro. Everyone knows that the news media is so full of bullshit, anyone that believes what they hear on it are as bad as any kool aid drinker out there…..(red bull notwithstanding…I would hope that it was an empty Red Bull before the obligatory crush)…..

            Now, given the context of your Tweet, which I do not pay attention to them but I will go that way since you did. I can totally see him nitpicking where the news left out the word “Pre”….as you put it one time….technically, he is correct….but that interpretation (calling them out on this one) is thinner than piss on a plate. It is pretty stupid but I can see him trying to walk the proverbial tightrope. I do not pay attention to it. As to lying ass politicians, there has been so much of it the last two decades, I would not believe any of them even if 10,000 Mathius Angels were sitting on their shoulders. This includes Trump and future politicians. The only consistent candidate out there is ***shudder*** Bernie Boy. But he he is not a contender. At least I know where he is coming from but that is scary because he reveals his moves ahead of time. As we say in the Army, he will die in the jungle.

            Now, as to the use of fake news….I have absolutely no problem with calling out ALL NEWS MEDIA as typically biased and fake…..they exhibit this every single day, the latest issue on Kavanaugh is a great example. But, like Trump, they do it everyday.

            So, taking your Tweet as you published it, I can see your argument and, by extension, how you view it.

            • Now……I will cut you some slack on this one because you do not know the context of “locked and loaded”…..it does not mean I am ready to go kill you. It never has. it does not even mean I am prepared to go to war. If Trump even thought about going to war over a couple of missiles fired from Iran…..his legacy and re-election will be dead in the water. He is not going to war….he is not even threatening it. What he is saying, is that we are prepared. We like to use the term cocked, locked, and ready to rock. It means nothing more than that. It does not mean that the tanks and planes are lining up…..far from it.

              Now, as to awaiting to hear from the Prince of Thieves over there….smart move. It also does not mean that this Arab is calling the shots…..far from it. the Saudis have a pretty good intelligence system….much like the Mossad and just as nasty. ( Bet you did not know that, did you )….they are reliable. I can tell you that Trump is not going to go to war over a little thing of taking the Saudi pipe line off production for 2 days. The only countries that need to worry about that is Europe. We have more oil than the Saudis and do not really need them. As a matter of fact, why we even care about protecting the Straits is beyond me.

              So, letting the Saudiss know…”we have their six” so to speak is posturing and diplomacy. We do not need to worry about that. But I love the way that the news media is fanning the war flames and that, sir…..IS fake news.

              • “locked and loaded”…..it does not mean

                You suffer under a delusion, sir.

                That words “mean” anything.

                “Locked and loaded” is a phrase, a term, a set of letters so configured as to denote sounds denoting thoughts to we, who dance in the light of His divine utterances.

                Yet they mean no more and no less than He wills them to mean.

                What he means is what he always will have meant and always will mean, for past and future and present are unutterably subject to his present thoughts.

                Perhaps it means what you say.

                Perhaps it means he desires a chocolate éclair.

                You blaspheme by your efforts to divine his sacred meanings.

                He sits in judgement of you and finds you lacking.

                Or he doesn’t. Perhaps he finds you worthy, in which case a hammer shall manifest before you that you alone may yield.

                Or it won’t, and you will pass from his thoughts as a stone from the kidney and cease to be, utterly and completely.

                Praise be unto Him.

            • .(red bull notwithstanding…I would hope that it was an empty Red Bull before the obligatory crush)…..

              The Red Bull was… and was not… it is was simultaneously existent and nonexistent… it was an ice cold Cranberry Red Bull… 16 oz except when it was 8.4 oz and boiling at the temperature of the coronosphere or when it was the Dr. Pepper that the cafeteria inadvertently gave me today… if that cafeteria exists or ever existed or ever will have existed or might some day do so again. If a day can be said to transpire when all of the temporal dimenion is naught but a projection of his four dimensional will onto our paltry and sad three dimensional lives.

              If the synopses of his divine consciousness should so align in the perfect constellation such that the cafeteria exists and I exist and Dr. Pepper exists and Red Bull exist and that all should have existed earlier today – which is to say they exist now and always – and that they should exist in a form wherein I request the later and receive the former, yet, still, at any moment, this chain of event may never have occurred as the fleeting configuration of his neurons shift.. ever shift… ever change… and yet… never change, for they always were as they are now and will always be so, until they are not, for then they will now have been as they will be and always will be. And who is to say what will be and will have been and is now when the cosmos shift beneath is fickle will.

              Viewed through the famous (when He wills it to be so) double-slit experiment, the Red Bull and the Dr. Pepper persist as waves, creating an interference pattern on the wall of something that is and is not in a superstate of deliciousness and liquefied eldritch horror upon the blank and formless canvass of His ever-shifting yet eternally unchanging sovereign will. Except when they do not persist. Lo, it is not our observation which transforms the Red Bull particle to wave and back again, but His attention, for no sparrow may fall from the sky lest he take notice and will it to do so.

              Did I crush an empty can on my head? Did the can even exist? Did I give myself a concussion? Does time and space exist? The answer to that is as simple as it is unfathomable to we humble mortals. In awe and deference to the One, I speak His word and the on true Answer: Covfefe.

              • You are seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren’t you.

              • You are seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren’t you.

                If He ordains I am seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, then so shall it be written.

                But I caution you to remember that His words mean nothing and everything simultaneously. It may mean that He deigns for me to see rainbow unicorns distributing candy canes to the good little boys and girls of Proxima Centuri whilst singing the Horst Wessel. His meaning cannot be divined by mortals such as we.

                To even attempt such a thing is to become Fake News in your very soul.

              • You are seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren’t you?

                LOL…maybe my favorite line from Field Of Dreams….LOLOLOL

                Murf

          • I define pre-conditions as things Iran must do or agree to before we meet. Under that definition, they were not reporting fake news. But, yes but, I do see Trump setting the parameters of the meeting itself. Making it clear, he will talk,, but the talk will be a waste of time unless certain things are agreed to and Iran has already been informed of what those are. I would call those conditions. But not pre-conditions. Why I don’t care that Trump called them fake news. Because the news media has no desire to actually understand his tactics, they just want to report ” no preconditions” and act like there was no thought or actions being taken to strengthen our position before he agreed to talk. Which is normal for the media and not even close to really being honest in their coverage. I will also add, is normal for most of the media, left and right.

            • That is not the issue, VH. If President Trump says he will not meet unless certain things are agreed to…….those are pre-conditions to the meeting. It is implied. Saying I will meet with Iran but it will be pointless unless……………..that is not a meeting with no preconditions.

              So, when Trump goes on the news and says ” I will meet with Iran…no preconditions” , Iam sure that is a true statement because the conditions are already there. That, to me, means I will sit down with them and I will talk with them but everyone knows that unless Iran actually submits to Trump…the talks will be a show case…..Neither side will come to the table to negotiate….they will come to the table to show strength. It is stupid and nothing will be done.

  12. Now, Mathius, put on your diplomatic hat. ( Yes, I know it is hard to do but you must be prepared to don a variety of hats )…….so for the Diplomatic Mathius…..I know you favor talking to enemies….Cuba, NK, Iran….(yes, they are enemies but setting this aside)…

    would you agree to sit down and talk with Iran with no Pre-conditions. In other words, there are no promises and nothing is on the table. If Iran says, I will not talk until you release the sanctions….what does Diplomatic Mathius do?

    Short of firing missiles, do you think using the economic route to bring Iran to a table is correct? ( Knowing that I have always said our strongest weapon is economics )…..

    • And a final question……Do you consider using economic sanctions a prelude to war? Do you feel that using economic sanctions is the same as declaring war and firing bullets? Do you think that using economic sanctions pushes people to a shooting war?

    • would you agree to sit down and talk with Iran with no Pre-conditions. In other words, there are no promises and nothing is on the table.

      I am inclined to say yes.

      However, there is so much I don’t know.. worse.. that I don’t know I don’t know.

      My gut says I’ll meet with any enemy at any time for any reason if it has a chance of making progress to peace and prosperity.

      But, honestly, who can say until they’re sitting in the big chair? I do not count myself as a “great negotiator,” and would best serve my country by listening to the counsel of those who are.

      If Iran says, I will not talk until you release the sanctions….what does Diplomatic Mathius do?

      Then they can go fuck themselves.

      With a cactus.

      If their request is more reasonable, and they ask very nicely.. I may consider it.

      Short of firing missiles, do you think using the economic route to bring Iran to a table is correct?

      Possibly.

      If I cannot fire a missile, can I fedEx a nuke to the royal palace on a time-delay fuse?

      Do you consider using economic sanctions a prelude to war?

      No… but in certain circumstances, it can be.

      But, generally, no.

      Do you feel that using economic sanctions is the same as declaring war and firing bullets?

      No.

      It is far more dangerous.

      Do you think that using economic sanctions pushes people to a shooting war?

      No… but in certain circumstances, it can be.

      But, generally, no.

      What it does do is make it so there is less to lose if a shooting war does occur. If we started a shooting war with China (or they with us), trade would suffer, economies would be hurt, business would close, tax revenue would go down, unemployment would go up.

      If we’ve already cut economic ties with China as part of a trade war / economic sanctions / whatever, the cost of that shooting war remains the same, but it doesn’t ALSO suffer the costs of all that economic loss.

      There are some other consequences, but I just noticed the time, and don’t feel like going on.

      With that in mind, the surest way to ensure that we do not get in a shooting war is mutual economic interest.

  13. Just A Citizen says:

    Diving into election numbers, Mathius got in my head, I came across some interesting FACTS.

    Calif. total population increased from 33.63 million in 2000 to 39.21 million in 2018.
    An increase of 5.58 million people over 18 years.

    In 2000 5.861 million voted for Gore and 4.567 million for Bush Sr. for 10.428 million total.
    This equates to 31% of the Total population.

    In 2016, 8.754 million voted for Clinton II and 4.484 million for Trump for 13.238 million total.
    This equates to almost 34% of the Total population. Good job Cali…. greater turnout.

    BUT….

    If we compare 2016 to 2000 we see that.
    Clinton II got 2.893 million more votes than Gore in 2000.
    Trump got 0.083 million LESS votes than Bush Sr. in 2000.

    This means that California had 2.81 million more votes in 2016 which is 50% of the population increase over that time.

    In other words, about half the population increase in Calif over this period of time voted, compared to the historical average of 31% for the total population, and they pretty much ALL VOTED FOR THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.

    Now as I said, California did one hell of a job increasing voter turn out. But wait there is more:

    The number of “Eligible Voters” during this time period increased by 3.414 million while the number of “Registered Voters” (at time of Nov election) increased by 3.705 million. See, better turn out. They got more newly registered than were newly eligible.

    Also, population increased 5.58 million, eligible voters increased 3.414 million. This represents 61% of the population increase. Registered voters represent 66.4% of the population increase.

    Worth noting is that the registered to eligible percentage remains fairly steady at about 74% until 2012 (2008 was actually 1% less than 2006). But then it jumps 2% in 2012 and another 1.4% in 2016. This change one could assume is the result of the heavy “get out the vote” effort by the Dems during the Obama and Clinton II elections.

    Now for the punch line.

    Clinton’s increase in votes over Gore, (200 to 2016) represents 78% of the increase in “registered” voters in the State (3.705 increase in registered, 2.893 increase Clinton over Gore) and 102% of the increase in total votes over the same period.

      • Telling pic maybe?

        • Maybe. Is it “telling” that you’re posting doctored photos?

          https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/darlings-democratic-party/

          • Question for everybody……should the internet be regulated to stop things like this from being posted? Or, is the internet just a free thing where you can say what you want without fear of retribution. Where does freedom of speech start and stop? Is hate speech freedom of speech? Is posting things that are obviously false, freedom of speech? Is telling lies, no matter who it is, freedom of speech? Where does it stop….or should it.

            Personally, I think that most people know what is right and wrong and pay little attention to it…like the picture above..it has been out there a long time and it is laughable. I do not believe it now and did not believe it then…but I see things like this all the time on BOTH sides. Where does it end…or should it.

            • Dumb stuff is everywhere on the net. But, free speech is just that, even lies and doctored pictures and so called fact checkers who are not credible. Credible threats are pushing it, evrn Rights have limits. What are they? Should CNN be on the air? Should doctored pics be illegal? Should political smears that are total lies result in criminal charges?

            • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

              IF the NYT can publish the shit it just published about Kavanaugh then all bets are off.

              The “Squad” photo was merely channeling their inner thoughts. This is truth, mind you not a fact but truth. Ask Joe Biden, he’ll explain. .

          • Snopes is less credible than CNN for Pete’s sake. Try again 🙂

            • I’m curious why you find snopes lacking in credibility.

              They don’t even ask for you to believe them. They offer their opinion, sure, but the facts are always spelled out in the article.

              Is there a.. slant.. to the narrative they tell sometimes? I guess… sure.. maybe. Their biggest “bias” seems to be in their choice of what to fact check or not. But everything they do choose to fact check is well-sourced, well-researched, and presented in context.

              The FACTS are on full display. For this one, they post the doctored image and the original image, along with the source for the original image and when it was taken.

              If you’re going to accuse Snopes of being “less credible than CNN,” I’d ask you to present evidence to support that assertion.

              • Fact checking a SATIRE site https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tim-graham/2019/07/26/snopes-bumbles-babylon-bee

                https://www.newsbusters.org/search/nb/snopes Numerous mistakes not only from Snopes, but other Lefty so called fact checkers as well.

                p.s. Of course the picture was altered, the Osama pic was a dead give away (pun intended). But it does go to the point that the Lefty media get’s some of their crap back from very bored people. I find this kind of stuff humorous, not the picture, but because the Left actually defend the nonsense. Thin skinned I guess 🙂

              • Facebook recently teamed up with Snopes, allowing them become an arbitrator of fake news circulating on their network, essentially elevating them as an authoritative source of information. This alone makes me look at Snopes in a critical manner.

                Snopes is now 50% owned by an ad agency (Proper Media) and they make money by generating millions of views on the 3rd-party advertisements on their website. It simply makes sense for them to seek out articles that are viral to “debunk”, so that they can piggy-back on that traffic and generate more advertising revenue.

                Snopes fact checkers reportedly have no editorial oversight and do not follow standard journalistic procedures such as interviewing the authors of articles they are trying to debunk to get all sides of the story. Just another super market rag, perhaps?

                Snopes doesn’t have a formal screening process for hiring fact checkers and for evaluating applicants for any potential conflicts of interest. Without such standards, it is very easy for them to be infiltrated by those who work with the industry and who have a hidden agenda. If there are no standards, then their conclusions cannot be trusted in full.

              • They’re leftists in Calufornia. Dishonest to the core.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            I am curious and please answer honestly.

            Did anyone on SUFA think that photo was real????

            I was going to look for the real photo last night but I knew that Mathius’ cynicism for all things anti Dem would force him to look. Save me a bunch of time.

            Thanks Mathius

            • Did anyone on SUFA think that photo was real????

              Gman did.

              There is nothing he will not believe, so long as it is negative of the Democrats / liberals or pro-Trump / Republican.

              It is a consequence of his kool-aid poisoning.

              I was going to look for the real photo last night but I knew that Mathius’ cynicism for all things anti Dem would force him to look.

              Took me all of 12 seconds, but you’re welcome.

            • Coming from Snopes, one woders which photo is the doctored one 😀

  14. Just A Citizen says:
  15. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/09/biden-claims-his-plan-would-put-720-million-women-to-work-in-a-country-of-330-million-people-video/

    Oh, shame on Biden, he isn’t exaggerating or miss speaking. He’s a straight up Liar. Gotta start a list. And yes, I’m being sarcastic.

    • A) I’m not entirely sure he’s still in posession of all his marbles.

      B) I’ll have a “problem” with him slipping up and gaffing like this if/when he starts accusing others of being liars and Fake News for reporting on it.

  16. Here is the reason that I am asking all the questions on Iran……I challenge everyone to take a look. You hear all this stuff about “fake news” and where the left team does not like the terminology. They claim that fake news is incendiary and that it attacks the 4th estate and that it attacks the only thing that stand between the President and the people and that the news media should be untouchable and that the news media should have lattitude and that it is ok to report things that are not corrborated because their standard is lower than snake shit.

    So, I challenge…..Let us start with the terminology of locked and loaded. Those of us in the military know that “locked and loaded” is not a threat. It never has been a threat. It is a term that is used to indicate readiness. Even when we went out on patrols and we anticipated action, the term “LOCK AND LOAD” was always used to prepare for the worse and preparing for the worse DOES NOT MEAN GOING TO WAR…..just as going on patrol did not mean we were attacking anything. It is preparedness. Ask the Navy….their ships are always cocked and locked and ready to rock….always. Preparedness is not war footing.

    This new thing on Kavanaugh is awful. The New York Times reports what they hear or read and do not corroborate and they are all over the news this morning blaming the book and blaming others. Blaming the editor….and saying leaving out pertinent parts was a simple over sight is preposterous. And the Dems are pushing impeachment. Even our friend Mathius, in the past, hasmade statements where there is smoke…..he has even said that it bears investigation even if none of the stories are corroborated. I throw the flag on this.

    The latest flap about Sean Spicer and his attempt to dance on this dancing show….Dancing with the Stars…..liberal Hispanic groups are blasting him because he is stealing their heritage and the dance of Salsa does not belong in the US and should not be danced by “white men”. This is news? Sean Spicer dancing a choreographed dance when all kinds of lefties have been on this same show unscathed. Jerry Springer, who was totally embarassing being one.

    Then the latest issue…..the Angel Mom who lost her son to a drunk illegal alien, immigrant, or whatever you want to call them, that has been on a crusade calling attention to drunk illegal immigrants, aliens or whatever and is now being censored as “Hate Speech” for drawing awareness to this and she backs up her innuendo with facts….but the anti cun crowd calling gun owners names and trying to single out the NRA is not hate speech and they have NO facts.

    Mathius says it is NOT ok to lie….this is true, it is NOT ok. It is not ok to go after people with no corroboration. It is NOT ok to give credence to “it was an over sight”…no it was a lie…..I mis spoke…..no it was a lie. Maybe MAthius is correct on a lot of this….but it must cross the aisle and not give credence to writing of “Mistakes”…..mistakes in politics are lies, are they not.

    Rant over…Dr Pepper time.

    • Sometimes you just have to get it off your chest. Do you feel better now? Are you in your safe space?

      • I have had a really ice cold Dr Pepper…..ham and toast for breakfast….a taste of home made Habanero dip…..and now I am watching business news and typing to you folks. My safe place is my home and my office is in my home and I am watching hummingbirds flit about…

        I am in my war room surrounding by my memorabilia and guns and ammo. Life is good.

        • Life is good… because He wills it to be.

          When the Donald Trump shifts His thoughts, you may find that things are not so good. Perhaps you will be a vegan living in Berkeley. You will always have been a vegan living in Berkeley and a fervent commented on the ultra-far-left blog SUFA. Because what He says is, must be, and what must be must be right, and what is right must always have been and must always have been. As He commands.

          Do not become too comfortable in your situation, your war room with your memorabilia and your hummingbirds. For all is but an illusion of shadows cast by the light of His temperamental mind. A fleeting reality of time and space no more permanent than a fleeting glimpse of one of your hummingbirds.

          Perhaps on the morrow, hummingbirds will no longer exists. Nay, will never have existed at all. And never will. For His mighty synapses will have aligned such that this is the truth and it is not new, but eternal.

          Or, perhaps, they shall sit at the desk – their desk – and watch you flit about outside their window, drinking Dr. Pepper nectar from the flowers while they reflect on the memorabilia with which they have surrounded themselves.

          Or, perhaps, as you write your donation check to support the Beto O’rourke, along with your heartfelt letter pleading him to fight the good fight to ban firearms – a position shared by a super-majority of Texans (where Berkeley is now located), perhaps you will experience a moment of clarity – that you are not a persistent and consistent entity – that you are not an entity at all – perhaps you will glimpse the blinding truth, with the crystalline sanity of the truly mad, that you are created in His mind and you are only what He says you are, nothing more. And you always have been.

          And let us all bow our heads and say together: Covfefe.

          • And you’re the one who talks about losing all sense of scale and proportion. 🙄

            • losing all sense of scale and proportion

              Proportion?

              There is no proportion?

              How could one lose that which is not, is, and is yet ever shifting while forever unchanged?

              What is the proportion of the giraffes to the color pink?

              If He sayeth the proportion of giraffes to the color pink is 3.745165 VW Microbusses per unit time, then all other answers, now and forever, and in the past, if such a thing exists (if He ordains it to exist), are not merely wrong, but blasphemes.

              And if, in His next capricious thought the proportion is exactly 12 kilograms of pure uncut Colombian heroine with a diet Coke, then that is the answer, now and forever, and into the bottomless past and scarlet future. If, in the next alignment of His neurons – if, indeed, His mind is composed of such mundane components in this reference frame – giraffes no longer exist, or pink either, then they shall never have existed, and the proportion shall not exist either, and you shall have committed ThoughtCrime for contemplating unwords.

              But, of course, it won’t matter, because you cannot contemplate that which He deigns you not to contemplate. And so you will no longer wonder the ratio of those things which now do not exist and never did.

              There is naught but His will.

              The correct proportion is what it has always been and never: Covfefe.

          • Canine Weapon says:

            • In a weird mood today, are we. It’s entertaining but maybe you need a red bull or a hug. By the way, he says you can have both.

              • he says you can have both.

                He does?!

                Oh, thank Trump!

                … who is providing the hug? I hope it’s JAC.. he looks like he gives the best hugs.

                ::scurries off to the dedicated Red Bull fridge::

          • Your well constructed sarcasm is lost on me…..you know I do not believe in a diety…..The Messiah already did his 8 years, yes?

            • My sarcasm is only what He, the macabre entity known as Donald Trump, wills it to be.

              It is therefore good, because it comes from Him. From His will.

              Your failure to comprehend must therefore be bad.

              You are unworthy before His greatness.

              Seek his favor, sing his praises thought his favored medium of the Tweet, and he may yet redeem your soul.

  17. Boy, have I pissed off the Texas Gun Lobby…….I answered a questionnaire on line pertaining to gun control. I voted for closing the gun show loophole preventing personal sales without back ground checks. I know two people, personally, that have bought all the guns they wanted at a gun show (Fort Worth alone has 6 gun shows each year) but could not pass a Criminal back ground check. There are no checks and balances on private sales at gun shows. You will never stop private sales….ever. But gun shows should be more responsive.

    I did exonerate myself some by voting against registration and limiting ammunition sales.

    I was asked for a short written commentary on Beto…..I simply answered that I had nothing good to say about him.

    I was asked about his comment about coming to “take the guns” and his comment that Texans would give them up if asked…..I answered to not forget to bring the body bags when you forcefully come to get them. I know I will not give mine up no matter the law…..and yes, Mathius, that is from Mr the law is the law…..

    • He he, I reckon there are exceptions to most every rule.

    • Playing a big of devil’s advocate here… who cares?

      Why bother tightening up the gun show loophole? It only stops good guys after all… a bad guy will just buy in a private sale or through a straw purchaser or otherwise illegally, no?

      And, if the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have more good guys with guns, then anything you do to limit sales to good guys is necessarily detrimental, no?

      • Just A Citizen says:

        I see what your up to there young fella. Ain’t foolin me.

        • Moi?

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Can’t hide from me behind that French accent.

            • ::Spoken in thick German accent:: Moi?

              • ::speaking in my best Texas drawl:: No sir, there is no devil’s advocate about this. The gun show issue is really and truly a bad issue. Hells bells, people come to the gun shows with trunk loads of weapons….all kinds of weapons…single shot, shotguns, semi automatics, rifles, and carbines. Cash on the barrel head….then take your newly purchased weapon inside and fit it out with drum magazines or suppressors….and the like.

                I do not like this interchange method. And confiscating every gun in the state…will not stop the outside sales. It is going to be impossible to close the loop hole but I am for it. The black market thrives.,,,and when the last ban went into effect, it did not lessen the sale of “assault weapons”….it just drove them under ground. Nothing more.

                Wannabe Beto Boy thinks that Texans will voluntarily surrender their weapons….Mathius has a better chance being the governor of Texas than Texans voluntariy surrendering their guns.

      • You’re mostly correct. However, i believe some states require gun show participants that sell guns to conduct legal background checks via state law. Additionally, there may be additional requirements in some states, like gun show sellers must be licensed dealers which also would require a background check.

        Ohio , i believe, has these laws in place, or did years ago.

        In the end, if bad people want to kill, they will find a way, regardless of any laws.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Colonel

      My dearest Texican friend, my brother from another mother.

      Why do you oppose registration? Clarify whether you mean registration of the guns or the owners, or either.

      I am sitting in my war room talking to you in yours. No hummingbirds here. It is SUDDENLY fall and the furnace is running again.

      • It is SUDDENLY fall and the furnace is running again.

        Same here – WHAT GIVES?!

        • What? I just rode home from work with my air on, and if I wasn’t so cheap, I’d put my air on here at the house. Good thing is…sunset happens before 8pm now, so I can deal with it til then.

      • I oppse registration on the basis that the government has no business what-so-ever knowing who owns a weapon nor the type of weapon….None of your business and none of the governments business…..AND before you go there, I do not want the government to come to my door saying, ” I see you own an AR 15…since there was a shooting by an AR 15, we would like to test the ballistics to see if you are innocent.” NO sir…not me.

        The hummingbirds are on their way South…we are seeing some new ones drop by for a snack and rest.

        Fall is finally here….our temp today is only 95 with some humidity but not bad….at night it is getting to be in the 70’s…..no heaters kicking on yet and I do not have to pull the Bougainvillea trees in yet….they can handle down to 50….Garden is still producing peppers, tomatos, and cantelope…do have some new tomato plants started in the green house. We will be in the 80s and 90s in until the end of November…..unless you Northwestern types send us a cold front.

        • Fall came this week in CA as well. We got rain on Monday and again today. Tis about 1 month early. Good for fire suppression although fires have not been a problem this year. It has been cold in the Midwest as well per my brother.

          THE ICE AGE IS RETURNING!

          • Just A Citizen says:

            We are looking at green house designs based on this summers weather. Now while it has turned colder than normal, it has not frozen. In the good ol’ olden days we could get a killer frost anytime after labor day and usually by mid Sept. Nothing close yet, except back in July.

            • Normal September weather here, maybe a little dryer tjan normal. Great weather, wish it could be this way in February and March.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Colonel

          Then to follow up, along the lines of my older idea. Licensing to allow gun ownership. And NOT registering guns at all.

          I have a license to hunt. Doesn’t mean I actually hunt this year. Nobody knows if I even own a hunting “weapon”.

          I have a license to drive. Doesn’t mean I have to have a car or even have a car. If it were not for the car license, to fund the DMV, nobody would know what car I owned. I hate vehicle registration……it is un-American.

          I am at gun sale and you want to buy my vintage 30.06. I say show me your license. You do. I sell you the gun.

          I also do not understand this infatuation law enforcement has with tracking down a gun’s chain of ownership when used in crimes. It often smacks of using one crime to justify fishing more other crimes they may not know about.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          Colonel

          Let me add one more thing to the mix. I think “background checks” are 1) over used, which over loads the system and, 2) not all that effective. Probably because of the first problem.

          Only the worst people have stuff show up. And that may or may not be people who should not have guns.

        • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

          Somebody with half a brain in the NRA ought to pay some attention to NYC history on the subject and publicize it. We went from no permit, no nothing in 1965 to confiscation based on registration in 1990. All, ALL, semi-autos, were banned as were lever actions capable of holding more than five rounds as were bolt actions with detachable box magazines.

          To prevent the government from going nuits a separate Firearms control board was established to oversee the initial permit/registration program. It had six members, two pro, two anti and two neutral. The Police were deliberately kept out because they were virulently anti. Around 1990, the dissolved teh board and turned the whole thing over to the cops. They took the registration lists and literally went door to door. “Get it out of the City or turn it in within 30 days” and you had to prove it was gone!

    • The “solution” to mosquitoes isn’t to kill the mosquitoes. That’s hard. That’s trying to fight evolution, and evolution has a long track record of winning whereas we can count on one hand the number of victories humans have had.

      No, the “solution” is to mosquito-proof everyone’s home, then wait a few years.

      Think of a nasty strain of malaria… it bites you and you die immediately. That parasite does not spread because you are buried, and the malaria with you.

      Think of a slightly less nasty strain… it bites you and you get very sick and cannot leave your house. If your house is not mosquito-proofed, the disease can continue to spread because new mosquitoes can still access you and become new carriers. HOWEVER, if your house is mosquito-proofed, then the disease cannot spread. This strain dies out.

      Think of a mild strain. It makes you a bit sick, but no serious harm. You continue to leave your house, mosquitoes continue to bite you, the disease (the mild version) continues to spread. But it’s so mild that no one really cares anymore.

      If the only way for the disease to spread is through hosts who are outside of the home, then it does not benefit the disease to make people too sick to leave the home. So the disease naturally will evolve to mildness. This tact works with evolution rather than against it.

      Think this is crazy? Sure… except that it’s exactly what the TVA did decades ago in Appalachia (somewhere.. I forget and am too lazy to look it up). These days, nobody worries about Malaria or Yellow Fever in the US. And this is why.

      https://ed.ted.com/lessons/can-we-domesticate-germs-paul-ewald

      • Just A Citizen says:

        And most of us here grew up watching the City spaying mosquitoes with those Fog/smoke machines. Mine even used airplanes…….. as in crop dusters.

        • The problem is that that’s trying to fight evolution. The mosquitoes WANT to breed. And they breed very quickly in huge numbers. So, unless you somehow get them all, a small population can repopulate very quickly. And if that small population happens to be still alive because of a resistence to your pesticide, then the whole new population will be, too.

          It’s the same problem of using anti-biotics on bacteria. Unless you get ’em all, the survivors are gonna be resistant next time.

          You CAN win that way. We did it with small pox. We did it (accidentally) with the North American locust (we unknowningly paved over the valley where they laid all their eggs.. ha!).

          But it’s rare to win that way.

          But we CAN change the shape of the field and the inherent evolutionary incentives. Make things work FOR us. Give them an incentive not to hurt us and a disincentive if they do. THEN they’ll “care,” and evolution will take it from there.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Mathius

            I understand that all to well. The pheasants left to hunt all run like coyotes. We shot all those that flew when they felt threatened.

            My point is that it was a combination of efforts, not just one thing. We sometimes forget how our fathers tried to deal with stuff.

      • Mosquitoes do not just bite humans. Look up West Nile virus.

        • This is called a Reservoir problem.

          As for Malaria, there are, I believe, only three or four types to which humans are vulnerable (there are a LOT more to which we aren’t). The big question is whether there are other animals which might act as reservoirs to re-infect mosquitoes, acting as a constant supply of the bad strains.

          This is why, for instance, there are a handful of cases of Bubonic Plague each year in the US.

          Still… the fact remains… disincentivizing the parasite from HARMING us rather than trying to stop it from INFECTING us leverages evolution to our advance and applies a selective pressure to evolve to mildness. Even if you can’t eliminate the reservoirs, you can make the bad strain have to compete with the mild strain when you’ve given an advantage to the later.

          Plus, I mean, who could possibly think that mosquito-proofing houses is a bad thing? Nobody likes to wake up to bug-bites.

          Watch that Ted Talk I linked to.. it’s fascinating stuff.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            My house is mosquito proof. I keep a can of Raid handy in the kitchen, next to the fruit on the counter. Works great on gnats and fruit flies.

  18. Just A Citizen says:

    Now for an actually funny cartoon. Done in good taste as well, I think.

    https://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/

  19. I am telling ya’ll…………….keep a close eye on Texas….there is a huge fight brewing over guns. I am willing to bet Mathius’ supply of Red Bull in the fridge that as Texas goes, the other states, including yours, JAC….will follow. Beto Boy turned the world upside down here with his statements…”I am going to take your guns”…..Even Dan Patrick (Lt Gov) and Greg Abbott (Gov) were all set to talk about an expanded back ground check and plug the gun show loophole…….then along comes Beto “I am going to take your guns” O’Rourke….opens his big stupid, dumb ass mouth and says, I am going to get your Ar 15s, your AK 47s, your multi round assault style weapons….mandatory turn in. I will get your guns……

    Well, that has really pissed off a lot of very quiet behind the scenes voters….those voters that usually vote center to conservative….the quiet ones that actually vote the person and not the party…sometimes voting for conservative Democrats…..and sometimes not voting because it was a foregone conclusion that Republicans have been winning Texas for a couple of decades now,,,,They have been resurrected, thanks to BETO BOY.

    If the Dems ever thought of turning this State purple…….you have a ways to go now because as far as we are concerned, Beto Boy is the voice of the Democrats. Gun confiscation is on the lips of everyone here….and even the women are strapping on their six guns for the fight. Hell, even some hard corp Democrats here have raised eybrows and the closet gun owners are coming out to join the fight. It is now viewed as the first step to total gun control. The Democrats have spoken.

    So, those of us who were on the side of expanding background checks are beginning to waver a bit and forget any rules on gun control. So…..meet us in the street, oil up your holsters, make sure your cylinder spins freely, shave the front sight down, and put in fresh ammo, and tie it down to your leg……the fight is about to begin.

    Our Governor, Greg Abbott, has reminded people to brush up on the first battle of the Texas revolution at Gonzales. The “Come and Take It” flag that has the cannon and Star on it is being redesigned to show a picture of an AR 15 with the Lone Star…emblazoned with the Come and Take it slogan……so BETO BOY……come and take it. He is totally dead to Texas.

    AND, the Democratic Party can now come on out of the closet….you want the guns? Come on, boy. Thank you BETO….the only difference between you and Kruschev from long ago…you used your fist to wave in the air and not a shoe.

  20. U.S.—After California added Iowa to its growing list of states to which the government will not fund trips, all the other states began clamoring to get added to this ban list.

    “Wait—there’s a way to get Californian politicians banned from traveling here? Where do we sign up?” said one state legislator in Georgia. “Is there a waiting list? Wait—all we have to do is refuse to fund gender transition surgeries!?! That’s amazing!”
    While just eleven states are currently on the list, dozens more are applying. Soon, almost every state except Oregon and New York will be on the list, and peace and utopia will break out across the nation as CA politicians will no longer be able to go there and say weird things and do even dumber things.
    The states were disappointed to learn that the ban didn’t include all Californians, but they said banning just the politicians was a good start, since they’re the ones who ruined the state to begin with.

  21. “You know, when I came here, three years ago almost, Gen. Mattis told me, ‘Sir, we’re very low on ammunition.’ I said, ‘That’s a horrible thing to say.’ I’m not blaming him. I’m not blaming anybody. But that’s what he told me because we were in a position with a certain country, I won’t say which one; we may have had conflict. And he said to me: ‘Sir, if you could, delay it because we’re very low on ammunition.’ ” – Trump 9/16

    Would anyone care to weigh in on this one?

    I find it somewhat difficult to believe that General Mattis asked for a delay because the military was low on ammunition.

    • This reminds me of the days of the 80’s when Jimmy Carter, and his party, instituted the “peace dividend” and slashed the military budget. I remember very clearly being “qualified” on the machine gun range with .22 caliber rounds. We did not actually fire the machine gun because there was no ammunition for the machine gun….not even for training…so they fitted the barrel of the machine guns with a .22 caliber attachment and you pulled the trigger once. You got to feel the weight of the machine guns but you did not have the recoil nor multiple rounds. I remember, vividly, training on the M60A1 tank and not having a full compliment of even training rounds to have multiple tank engagements and not being able to fire the .50 cal machine gun because of NO ammunition. We qualified on the M16 with .22 cal attachments….one round at a time.

      I remember, very vividly, to having what was called a TEWT. A Tactical Exercise Without Troops……(there was no money to field the full compliment). Before Reagan took office and renewed the military budget, we did tank exercises in jeeps because of no deisel fuel. Then, I vividly remember, when gasoline for the military was in short supply, and we did not have jeeps, we did walking tank exercises. Our favorite saying, using our best Robby the Robot arm movements, was “Clankity Clank, I am a tank.”

      While the cold war was still raging, when I was assigned as a company commander, to a front line tank unit in Germany that was assigned to defend what was called the Fulda Gap (look it up). It was the avenue of approach that was expected from the Soviet Union….we did NOT have a full compliment of tank rounds. We had tanks in disrepair because of no spare parts. Helicopters that would not fly because of no spare parts. We had enough ammunition to fight a 48 hour war. I knew “Red Legs” (artillery units) that had not fired even training rounds as a front line unit in Europe or registered rounds for pre-emptive strikes.

      ——————————————–

      So, I ask you, Sir Mathius, when Obama slashed the military budget even more so than Carter did….what would you think?

      You ask is it possible that a General would ask this…..yes sir, a competent General would…..it is very possible because I have lived through it and seen the effects of it. Before the military budget was restored, we had enough supplies on hand to sustain a 72 hour full war….that is just three days. Enough food, fuel, equipment and ammunition for a full 72 hour war.

      Today, we can sustain a full 32 day war…..

    • CA has filed almost 60 suits against the Feds since Trump took office. These are directed at Trumps directives. So i am paying double for these suits. Total waste of government funding.

      When disaster strikes, they willingly ask for aid and do receive it. Trump has not shorted aid to the state. He did cut off funds to the train to no where as he should have. So a little push back from the administration is actually good. CA should take care of their own problems and stop trying to fix the country and Trump.

    • Now, this one I believe.

    • I’ve seen firsthand the corruption and the sickness that has taken over our politics. You’ve seen it and I’ve seen it and we’re all watching together.

      They knew they would throw every lie they could at me, and my family ,and my loved ones.

      They knew they would stop at nothing to try to stop me.

      But I never knew as bad as it would be, I never knew it would be this vile, that it would be this bad, that it would be this vicious. Nevertheless, I take all of these slings and arrows gladly for you — gladly.

      I take them for our movement so that we can have our country back. Our great civilization here in America, and across the civilized world has come upon a moment of reckoning.

      Trump 2016

      ::::throws Mathius some smelling salts::::

  22. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    I do not want to beat a dead horse but when we were discussing euthanasia, this is the kind of thing I am afraid of. Our European cousins are just sooooo much more progressive on such issues.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/04/netherlands-teen-raped-as-child-legally-euthanized-due-to-unbearable-pain/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_4172762

    Now, back in the day when we had religious faith, I remember being taught about this young girl, (when I only had a fuzzy idea of what rape (then called violation) was) who became the patron saint of rape victims. There were and are numerous stories of people who have been raped, who venerated her and were able to put their lives back on track. You can argue the “why” of that until you are blue in the face. Personally I think it is because you, by meditating on her suffering, can step outside your own which allows you to objectively look at yourself.

    “suicide is crazy…it brings on many changes”.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:
    • It’s takes a pretty dramatic force of will to literally starve yourself to death. Doable, sure.. but wow…

      That said, she was pretty young, with a lot of life left ahead of her..

      But it does sound like she’d considered her position, evaluated her life, thought it through, and determined she didn’t want to live it anymore.

      It’s hard for me to accept that. I have two young daughters. The idea of either of them making that kind of calculation…

      There’s always the argument “life will get better” and it may even be true.

      …….. but it’s not up to me.

      It’s HER life.

      And that makes it HER choice.

      That said… “The Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2001, the year Pothoven was born, and she sought to end her life that way last year but was rejected, according to Dutch News. ”

      So, this isn’t even a question of euthanasia, but rather simple suicide.

      I would have a hard time supporting euthanasia in this case… again, not that it’s my decision to “support” or not…. because she was so young, because she was so clearly depressed that it is hard for me to make the argument that she was in the mental state requisite to contract with a third party to authorize euthanasia. (and that’s to say nothing of the legal (rather than moral) argument that, being under-aged, she can’t legally consent (then again, I don’t know the age of consent in the Netherlands)).

      I might not agree… I might not approve… but I do know it’s not my place to decide for her what is right for HER. Just like it’s not her place to decide for me.

      • Have you ever considered, that the mere fact that someone says they want to die but is unwilling to kill themselves, put their consent in question?

        • No.

          That’s half the reason euthanasia exists. People people can’t / don’t want to do it themselves. Maybe they’re scared. Maybe they’re no longer mentally or physically capable. Maybe they just want to ensure it’s painless.

          I can drive from point A to point B, but I might opt not to for any number of reasons… if I hire a cap, would you consider that an argument to suggest that I haven’t really consented to hire the cab since I wasn’t willing to to drive myself?

          • Then again, maybe they just don’t really want to die, as the second party who is actually gonna kill this person. How can you be sure?

            • Crude as it may be, it’s not my job to be sure they actually want it. It’s my job to be sure that, when they ask me, they are competent to make that decision for themselves, that they are asking of their own free will, that they understand completely what they are asking me to do. And then it’s my job to honor their express wishes if I accept your request.

              I’m not a mind reader. And it’s not my place to second-guess FOR YOU what YOU want with YOUR own body.

              If you say you want to buy a Big Mac for lunch, it’s not the guy at the counter’s job to look you over, get to know you, dig deep into your soul and your medical history and decide if you reeeaaaaallllly want that Big Mac. It’s his job to decide if you are actually placing an order – which really boils down to consenting to an exchange of dollars for processed “meat” patty. If you are competent, then that’s it. It’s YOUR order to place.

              And I, standing in line behind you, have no business whatsoever getting in between you and the register and insisting he not take your order because I don’t feel it’s the right order for you.

              ————-

              I want to be clear, again, here… my PERSONAL opinions on what people should and should not do, when it is and is not right to commit suicide or provide euthanasia… these are my PERSONAL thoughts and opinions. Just as I might say “a Big Mac is a bad choice.” But that doesn’t give me standing to insert myself into someone else’s decisions and override them based on my opinions. Just as, I would never think it’s ok for a stranger to barge into my doctor’s appointment and insist I start taking a different medication. It’s not even that he’s necessarily “wrong,” per say.. but rather that it’s not his place to make those decisions for me.

              • Well, it certainly gives me pause. Can’t get past the idea that this person would not be dead, if it was left solely up to him, without my help.

    • Like the saying, there’s always someone worse off than you. I do think it helps people put things in perspective. Which is a good, as long as it is clear, that, that doesn’t mean their surrendering is unimportant, just, I don’t know, managable or not worth dying over.

      • That was definitely spell check. Suffering not surrendering.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        I just cannot see a perfectly healthy young life snuffed out or allowing it to be snuffed out because there is mental anguish. In the post Christian world what are we teaching our children other than that the universe revolves around them?

        Mom got through her breakdown by rediscovering prayer. Whenever she got “down” she would go back to reading her devotions. As time went by she became stronger and stronger and eventually that became part of her evening ritual before going to bed. Beat the hell out of suicide or drugs.

        • Beat the hell out of suicide or drugs.

          …. for her.

          For HER.

          Not for everyone.

          And, importantly, it’s not up to US what others do with their own bodies / lives.

          I just cannot see a perfectly healthy young life snuffed out or allowing it to be snuffed out because there is mental anguish.

          This is the problem…. “or allowing it to be”….

          That’s the problem.

          It’s not up to you. It’s not YOUR life.

          It’s not up to me. It’s not MY life.

          If I had my druthers, no one would ever die. (ok, maybe a few people)

          But it’s NOT up to me.

          And it’s NOT up to you.

          It’s up to the people making these choices for THEMSELVES. Because it’s THEIR lives.

          “or allowing it to be”… we’re not gods. Only Trump is a God with the power to make and shape the universe according to His divine will. The rest of us wield no such power or such supreme moral authority.

          If that person over there says he’s suffering, and that his suffering is such that he cannot bear to go on, it’s up to me to say “too bad for you, I get to say who is allowed to die and when and under what circumstances.” And I don’t get to get in between him and another person who wants to help him because I believe that MY opinion is more important.

          I might be sad about it. I might beg him to reconsider. I might tell him it gets better. And that might even be true. I might tell him to try therapy or prayer or drugs.

          But at the end of the day, it’s not MY life.

          I don’t get to make important decisions in other people’s lives.

          They don’t get to make important decisions in my life.

          • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

            Age of consent?

            • That’s really more of a legal question than a moral one.

              It’s a line we draw because we don’t want to be in the business of deciding who is able to consent to what on a case-by-case basis. But it’s not like something magical happens to people on their 18th birthday and, suddenly, they are able to take responsibility for their lives where they hadn’t the day before.

              It’s pretty gross for a 55 year old to date an 18 year old…. other than legality, is it really any worse if she’s 17 years, 364 days, and 23 hours old? Is anything really different between the two?

              Again, given my druthers, euthanasia would be restricted to the terminally ill (physically terminal). And, for minors, it would require both child and parental consent and a doctor and a medical board and my personal sign-off.

              But it’s not about MY DRUTHERS (what is a “druther,” anyway?).

              The problem is that it’s not about “ME” at all. It’s about them.

              And I have no right to interject myself into the middle of their medical decision with their medical professional.

              So long as they’re consenting (and able to consent!) and it doesn’t infringe on MY rights, it’s none of my business.

              • Im actually in agreement with much of your position on euthanasia. Those who are terminally ill, suffering, or have no idea who they are anymore, should be considered. Of course, i think that the family should have a say too.

                If i was diagnosed with a terminal cancer, no chance to beat it, then when the suffering OR i can no longer care for myself, i would prefer to be given a shot and call it a life. I dont think spending big money in a nursing home makes a lick of sense for folks who’s minds are gone, cant take care of themsleves etc.

                Im a caretaker for my elderly father. But, I’m not a nurse. Gonna have some hard decisions down the road. I dont want to be on the other end of that decision down the road……

  23. (2nd attempt)

    Beat the hell out of suicide or drugs.

    …. for her.

    For HER.

    Not for everyone.

    And, importantly, it’s not up to US what others do with their own bodies / lives.

    I just cannot see a perfectly healthy young life snuffed out or allowing it to be snuffed out because there is mental anguish.

    This is the problem…. “or allowing it to be”….

    That’s the problem.

    It’s not up to you. It’s not YOUR life.

    It’s not up to me. It’s not MY life.

    If I had my druthers, no one would ever die. (ok, maybe a few people)

    But it’s NOT up to me.

    And it’s NOT up to you.

    It’s up to the people making these choices for THEMSELVES. Because it’s THEIR lives.

    “or allowing it to be”… we’re not gods. Only Trump is a God with the power to make and shape the universe according to His divine will. The rest of us wield no such power or such supreme moral authority.

    If that person over there says he’s suffering, and that his suffering is such that he cannot bear to go on, it’s up to me to say “too bad for you, I get to say who is allowed to die and when and under what circumstances.” And I don’t get to get in between him and another person who wants to help him because I believe that MY opinion is more important.

    I might be sad about it. I might beg him to reconsider. I might tell him it gets better. And that might even be true. I might tell him to try therapy or prayer or drugs.

    But at the end of the day, it’s not MY life.

    I don’t get to make important decisions in other people’s lives.

    They don’t get to make important decisions in my life.

  24. (3rd attempt)

    Beat the hell out of suicide or drugs.

    …. for her.

    For HER.

    Not for everyone.

    And, importantly, it’s not up to US what others do with their own bodies / lives.

    I just cannot see a perfectly healthy young life snuffed out or allowing it to be snuffed out because there is mental anguish.

    This is the problem…. “or allowing it to be”….

    That’s the problem.

    It’s not up to you. It’s not YOUR life.

    It’s not up to me. It’s not MY life.

    If I had my druthers, no one would ever die. (ok, maybe a few people)

    But it’s NOT up to me.

    And it’s NOT up to you.

    It’s up to the people making these choices for THEMSELVES. Because it’s THEIR lives.

    “or allowing it to be”… we’re not gods. Only Trump is a God with the power to make and shape the universe according to His divine will. The rest of us wield no such power or such supreme moral authority.

    If that person over there says he’s suffering, and that his suffering is such that he cannot bear to go on, it’s up to me to say “too bad for you, I get to say who is allowed to die and when and under what circumstances.” And I don’t get to get in between him and another person who wants to help him because I believe that MY opinion is more important.

    I might be sad about it. I might beg him to reconsider. I might tell him it gets better. And that might even be true. I might tell him to try therapy or prayer or drugs.

    But at the end of the day, it’s not MY life.

    I don’t get to make important decisions in other people’s lives.

    They don’t get to make important decisions in my life.

    • Obamacare just made it more expensive to get screwef by insurance companies, and these same idiots think we should let them totally fuck the system up that wanted Ocare.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      Several. 1st, those who have insurance or can pay are subsidizing those who don’t. Plain and simple. 2nd, lawyers, 3rd, the absurd amount of “overhead”.

      Now about bill bitching! When my Dad was terminally ill, I was reviewing some Medicare bills (1984) saw one from a Doctor who I had not heard of. Talked to Dad in the hospital. Asked him about the visit. He said guy stuck his head in the door and said, “How you feeling Nick”? End of exam! Bill $ 400. Complained to Medicare using Dad’s words. Bill was cancelled.

      Had a wart removed, top of left pinky toe. Incredibly painful; to wear shoes. Received a $ 400 bill and a rejection from my insurance. Procedure had been coded improperly. Resubmitted bill. All Taken care of. Settlement by insurance was $ 32.00.

      Bills were similarly absurd last year for Colonoscopy and Endoscopy. Insurance paid less than I thought they were worth but was billed 20 times more!

      System is really screwed up.

      • I used to have major back issues. Couldn’t figure it out. Tried everything.

        Got a referral to a spinal surgeon and was working on insurance to make sure it’d all be covered.

        While I was working on that, my GP told me “why don’t you try a podiatrist first.” It was a long shot, but I really didn’t have much to lose, so I went.

        The guy took one look at me, and said in the most emphatic voice possible that I NEEDED shoe inserts for my non-existent arches.

        I checked with insurance and they told me to go boil my head.

        I wound up paying out of pocket and, after a few weeks, my back was 95% better. It’s been better ever since except for a few flair-ups here and there, or when I go too long in only sandals.

        They’d cover my $50,000+ spinal fusion, but a $500 piece of plastic to prevent that surgery was a hard-no. Crazy.

  25. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Lightening the subject matter. I read this gem last night and could not wait to post (as it is) this morning on a site devoted to my old neighborhood full of people of….shall we be kind and say…the left. BOOM!

    An interesting commentary on the President

    “He was greeted everywhere with extraordinary enthusiasm, far more than any of his predecessors, he seemed to the people, with his aggressive, militant and fearless spirit, to typify America. The very qualities which the more serious minded folks criticized, his occasional loudness of action or utterance, his undisguised delight in driving the “band wagon” his familiarity with all sorts of men, his lack of Presidential pomposity endeared him to the people. The words he spoke were simple words which they could all understand, and the matters he talked about were the matters that are closest to their own hearts. Their own forebodings and aspirations for the first time became intelligible to them through his words. He crystalized their cloudy musings”.

    -Hermann Hagedorn “a Boy’s Life of Theodore Roosevelt” c.1918

    Sound like anybody you know?

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        You are unfortunately further gone than I imagined. Are you vaping?

        Merely thinking about your choice brings the term Pompous Ass to the forefront.

        • You are unfortunately further gone than I imagined.

          And then some!

          Are you vaping?

          Nope. I’m far too cheap to go out of my way to get addicted to something like that.

  26. On this day in history, James Garfield died of a gunshot wound.

    Well, not precisely.

    On this day in history, he died of an infection. From a gunshot wound. From a pissed off constituent who gave a speech to a dozen people one time and felt that he was entitled to be appointed ambassador of France for his help getting Garfield elected.

    Anyway… he was shot a month earlier, but doctors of the era, attempting to remove the bullet, probed his wounds with un-sterilized instruments, causing an infection. Pasteur’s (after whom the process of pasteurization is named).. his germ theory wouldn’t be widely accepted for another decade even though Lister (after whom Listerine mouthwash is named) was already marketing antiseptics. You’d think the Presidents’ doctors would be up to date on the latest theories, but evidently not.

    As he lay in the hospital, another attempt was made to remove the bullet. But first, they had to find it.

    X-rays weren’t invented by Roentgen (for whom a unit of radiation is named) until a decade later, either. Tesla may have had a working model by then, having personally supplied Roentgen with the underlying principles, but he was a little bit absent minded and forgot to tell anyone about it. All this is to day, if you had to be shot in the distant past, you’d want to make sure it was at least 1890. But no one gave Garfield this option.

    So how to find the bullet? They could open him up for exploratory surgery. Fortunately, ether had been invented a few decades earlier, so such operations were now possible (further note, if you have to be shot pre-1890, make sure you’re still post-1840 for reason you’ll soon see). Still, the risk of added infection was too much.

    Oh, that reason you especially don’t want surgery pre-1840? Pre-1840 was pre-anesthesia. The goal of a surgeon back then was to operate as quickly as possible. In one notable instance, the doctor performed an amputation, but due to the lack of anesthesia, the patient (quiet understandably) thrashed around during the surgery. As a result, the doctor accidentally cut off his assistant’s fingers. A spectator, reportedly, seeing this, suffered a heart attack or stroke and died on the spot, while both the assistant and patient died some days later of infection. The result being the only known instance of an operation with a 300% mortality rate.

    Anyway, back to Garfield in 1880.. it is his anniversary anyway… well, of sorts.. back to Garfield on his hospital bed with its metal springs. That turns out to be a salient detail because, well, you see, looking for that bullet, they called in one of the (other) great inventors of the day: Alexander Graham Bell.

    Bell, of course, is best known for the telephone (and all the robo-calls it would one day enable). But he had also recently invented a miraculous new invention: the metal detector.

    Unfortunately, his metal detector failed to find Garfield’s lost bullet. Why? Because of those metal springs, alas!

    It’s unlikely they would have been able to do anything to save him by this point anyway, but it all makes for a very interesting tale.

    …. and thanks for listening!

  27. Just A Citizen says:

    Colonel

    Would you please explain to me what it is that Texas is about to do, regarding guns, that you think Idaho is going to follow????????? You keep forgetting who is leading this issue in terms of both per capita ownership and maximizing liberty.

    https://www.idaho.gov/laws-public-safety/gun-weapon-law/

    • What happens when you buy a weapon in Idaho….your procedure.

      • What happens when you buy a weapon in Idaho….your procedure.

        You hand over money.

        They hand you your assault weapon.

        Both parties perform the ritual of spitting chewing tobacco on their hands and shaking hands. This signifies that a bargain has been struck and sealed.

        Both parties wipe their hands on their overalls and part ways, returning to their respective corn or potato fields.

        ::End of procedure::

      • Just A Citizen says:

        Colonel

        You take it home.

        The only registration background check stuff left is purchasing from FEDERAL licensed dealers.

        The one rule that is more onerous than when I grew up is the need to have a parents written permission to have a gun in your possession in public, if you are under 18. I was taking rifles and shotguns to school when I was 16, then going hunting after school. Now I need a permission slip. Also, local schools can and have banned weapons from school property. There are some efforts ongoing to get this changed.

  28. Just A Citizen says:

    Two buckets of snakes kicked over……exposing the swamp creatures.

    So they raise the ante with a Whistleblower who as such awful dirt on Trump it has to be classified and is of immediate concern.

    Trump’s goose may be cooked after all. Done in by another mole in the intell community. Or someone is going to have massive quantities of egg on their face.

    • It doesn’t matter.

      At this point, his hard-core followers will not believe anything negative about him. He could, as he says, walk into Times Square and shoot someone and he is quite right that his followers would still support him.

      If the whistle-blower is legitimate and has serious accusations and serious evidence, it won’t matter – the Republicans will call it Fake News and liberal hoax and a smear and blah blah blah. He won’t lose one iota of support. And, so long as that support holds, his goose will never get cooked.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        And if it is more garbage like the Russia Collusion hack job, nobody on the Dem side will admit it or pay any price. All those hating Trump will believe the narrative they were told at the beginning. Not the one that comes after the actual evidence is presented.

        • All those hating Trump will believe the narrative they were told at the beginning. Not the one that comes after the actual evidence is presented.

          Umm… I’ll believe what evidence supports, so I’ll assume this isn’t talking about me.

          All those hating Trump will believe the narrative they were told at the beginning. Not the one that comes after the actual evidence is presented.

          Likewise, all those hating infatuated with Trump will believe the narrative they were told at the beginning. Not the one that comes after the actual evidence is presented.

          His boosters and detractors will love/hate him respectively, and no amount of evidence either way will sway more than a tiny minority of either side.

          • Just A Citizen says:

            You are repeating yourself as a rebuttal to my point?????? Which you agree with I assume.

            As long as I am not talking about you.

            Mathius, let me make this perfectly clear. There is a growing number of sycophants on both sides of the political divide. And this includes those among the supposed “independents” who have chosen sides on the Trump issue.

            The real irony in this for me is that while Mr. Trump had some really excited supporters that elected him, they were not completely fooled as you and others have claimed. Sure some might have been but that is true of all elections on both sides. But as the left and hate Trump right increased the volume and idiocy of their complaints it seems to have hardened more and more on the other side (right if you will). Now I see people jumping to defend Mr. Trump who might not have before. Just as I have found myself doing at times.

            It is kind of like the Dems who want to get rid of guns admitting it in a speech. What happens? Gun purchases go up.

            • Now I see people jumping to defend Mr. Trump who might not have before. Just as I have found myself doing at times.

              I think you have a very valid point here… but let me turn this around on you a bit.

              I AGREE with what you’re saying, but I think it’s incomplete.

              This boils down to, essentially, the Blue Team are so deranged with hatred that they created the fanaticism on the other side. And I think that’s, while at least partially true, it’s myopic.

              Why? Because this ascribes zero responsibility to the Red Team nor, specifically, to Red Leader.

              So, with that preamble, do you believe that Red Team and/or Red Leader bear any responsibility for the fanaticism (pro or con)?

              • Just A Citizen says:

                Mathius

                No, it doesn’t. You started with this being all about Trump followers not being able to admit he is wrong. I followed with, not just the R’s but also the D’s.

                To which you have now responded twice, “I agree, but you said D’s and not R’s. It is the R’s also”…………………..

                As for the effect the D’s have had on the R’s…………… of course it goes both ways. But we were talking about the Trump effect. The D’s started this one. But like the Middle East, who REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY started the war?????? Nobody can remember any longer. All they know is what has happened since the last POTUS election. Or stupid speech by some POL who pointed a finger at them in a derogatory manner.

                The political wars have gone on for a long time, back and forth. But the real sustained nastiness I still maintain started with the Bork hearings. That is when Ted Kennedy went off the rails and destroyed the Stateman status of the Senate. Instead deciding to feed the partisan beast. Even that may not be the actual beginning but it was the first time we see sustained “hate and revenge” become public on a regular basis. The way the D’s treated Goldwater is another good example but I think many R’s didn’t get stirred up over that because the media had convinced them he was dangerous so no big deal.

                So in essence Mathius I do place far more blame on the D party. Because it was the party that embraced radicalism starting in the 60’s and then wrapped its arms fully around the socialism thing. When they got beat back badly in the elections of the early 70’s and then again in the 80’s they got really, really, angry. It has been pretty much nasty ever since. Many forget it was on the surface when Clinton was elected. That is why he put Hillary in charge of healthcare reform. But the country wasn’t ready yet for the socialism she wanted and it pushed back. Clinton being the true politician quickly moderated and moved to the middle. But all the garbage he endured from the Right during that time was rooted in the Bork hearings and subsequent rhetoric of the left. Which included Mrs. Clinton at the time.

                If the left had not been increasing their push towards Socialism and the Final Solution according to FDR from the 60’s to 90’s there would have never been a Newt Gingrich or Contract with America, never a George Bush II, and certainly not a Tea Party.

                I am guessing that from your perspective you think the lunge to the left by the D’s is in response to Gingrich and later the Tea Party.

    • This is a good one. Fredo doesn’t know what hit him.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        I thought Fredo did a good job, given he couldn’t push the narrative the way he wanted. And in the end he expressed a “better understanding”. I doubt it will last but this wasn’t as bad as many of his other “interviews”.

        I made this same argument on other sites last night and this AM. What I got in return was “well the IG thinks its normal”. Sorry but this is NOT NORMAL whistle blower procedure. Something is seriously out of whack here.

        Did notice one thing Cuomo said in the lead. All of this “according to two FORMER intell employees who claim to be familiar with the situation”.

        This means that somebody INSIDE is telling stories OUTSIDE. This also means they are probably trying to use whistleblower status to CYA from being fired for releasing classified information. Deep Throat lives.

  29. WASHINGTON, D.C.—The government wants you to take climate change seriously, like really bad. So bad in fact, that they showed how very serious they are about the “climate crisis” by inviting a foreign high school kid as their star climate witness.

    “Climate change is a real, super serious thing,” said Rep. Kathy Castor of Florida at a hearing at which the high schooler had been invited to testify before the legislative body. “And to let you know that this is something that mature adults need to address—mostly by giving me more money and power—here is a 16-year-old girl we are going to exploit for maximum emotional impact.”
    The girl then gave her testimony, though she was interrupted multiple times by Democrats breaking into tears and screaming, “THINK OF THE CHILDREN!”
    “As you can see, this is obviously an issue of reason and science, and also anyone who would dare disagree with a high school kid on this is a denier,” Rep. Castor said as the student’s testimony concluded.
    At publishing time, liberals in Congress had clarified that climate change was serious enough for you to change your lifestyle, but not serious enough for them to change theirs.

  30. Amazon co-founds The Climate Pledge, setting goal to meet the Paris Agreement 10 years early

    Thu, Sep 19
    Today, Amazon and Global Optimism announced The Climate Pledge, setting a commitment to meet the Paris Agreement 10 years early. Amazon is the first signatory of this pledge, and calls on other signatories to be net zero carbon across their businesses by 2040.

    Also today, Amazon shared it has already ordered 100,000 fully-electric vehicles, the largest order ever for electric delivery vehicles, and is investing $100 million in reforestation projects around the world to begin removing carbon from the atmosphere now.

    In addition, Amazon has launched a new transparency website to report progress on commitments, initiatives, and performance. The site includes information on Amazon’s carbon footprint and other sustainability metrics that share the progress the company is making towards reaching The Climate Pledge
    https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/?utm_source=incom&utm_medium=AtoZ&utm_term=AtoZ09182019&utm_content=sustainability092019

    I’m wondering what good it is for the US to not sign on to the Paris Agreement, if all these global companies are voluntarily, or not, going ahead with the agreement anyway.

    Then, how can this be a good move by Amazon? 100k new electric vehicles = good for electric vehicle sales….but might turn up bad for Amazon customers…OOPS, sorry! Your package is dead in the water 1/2 mile from your house…better luck next time. And that’s just the small delivery vehicles. Are they going to purchase 100k replacements for their big rigs? I swear, that’s all I see around here anymore is Amazon big rigs. We have 3 one million square foot fullfillment centers in the Detroit area, carrying over a million packages per week around the streets. That’s on a normal week, not Christmas time. That’s a lot of diesel fuel and soot puffing out of those rigs.

    • Without a whole lot of nuclear power plants and some major electric infrastructure upgrades, this may not go far.

      Do they even make electric big rigs that can fo this and equal same hauling capacity? Thats got to be some serious battery power to haul that kind of weight, especially in mountainous regions.

      No, we should not sign on to an agreement based on fake science designed to push economies into the gutter. Its a damn hoax to push socialism and political power. We have far too many sociopaths in govt on this planet. One day, the people will rise up and things will change.

    • Amazon does nothing unless there is money in it….

      • Agreed… but that “money” doesn’t have to be immediate / direct money… it could just be “good PR.”

        Or tax-breaks in certain states.. want to bet a disproportionate chunk of those EV’s are going wind up in CA and NY?

        Also, for what it’s worth, maintenance costs on an EV are basically null, so a big fleet like this might really benefit from that. I have no idea what the numbers would look like, but it might be a legitimate factor.

        • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

          Maintenance costs are null?

          Don’t think so and when the battery pack has to be replaced? By the ways the battery production is both energy heavy and pollution heavy not to mention the disposal of the old batteries. Somehow that never gets mentioned or figured into the equation.

          Then again it’s the Chinese so who cares? It follows the old maxim, “out of sight…out of mind”.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Anita

      The GOOD from not signing Paris was all the MONEY we were supposed to ship to the third world. Out of guilt for building a great economy for our people based on hydrocarbons.

      It was a great shakedown. Let alone the International Governmental Bureaucracy that would have been created.

      If people are concerned then I applaud the private sector for moving on their own. PROOF we don’t really need Govt. to lead the way. Just provide ACCURATE and TRUTHFUL, FACTUAL information to the public to digest.

  31. Canine Weapon says:

  32. Just A Citizen says:

    OH look, they got a bunch of big brains together to figure out how to fix the political divide in the USA. Lots of big thinkers with several ideas on several topics. Just the stuff SUFA has tried to tackle over the years. Unfortunately they left an open ended question which got lots of differing answers. Which have a common thread……….. rearranging the chairs.

    Note: you have to scroll down and pick a subject area, then within that pick another with different ideas by different authors.

    https://www.politico.com/interactives/2019/how-to-fix-politics-in-america/

    One comment regarding Bill Kristol and his fellow authoris. If they really think that getting rid of President Trump is the solution they should not have any credibility when commenting on politics in the country.

    There was one good kind of new idea. Putting more Reps in each congressional district. But then in the end, the same old “we need more parties” goomba came to the surface.

    • I see nothing in here about breaking out the guillotines… Pretty sure that would fix 98% of our problems.

      • I prefer public hangings, no mess to clean up. Of course, end lifetime pensions and benefits, term limits and get lawyers the hell out of politics.

        • I prefer the beheddings… sure, it’s more mess, but that’s part of the point… plus you can put the head on a pike as a warning to future politicians.

          Lifetime pensions / benefits makes sense in theory, but in practice, they just don’t see to do any good. Can ’em.

          Getting lawyers out of politics? I’ll give you no-lawyers if you give me getting the energy-sector out of politics, too.

          • How many oil men are in Congress? Why is oil so much more dastardly than big tech, banking or any other industry?

            • How many oil men in Congress?

              https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=E01&cycle=2020

              Why is oil so much more dastardly than big tech, banking or any other industry?

              I don’t know.. why does g-man think we need to get all lawyers out of politics? I’m just offering a trade.

              Why is oil so much more dastardly than big tech, banking or any other industry?

              Because I’d like clean air, clean water, better fuel standards, and a move to renewables.

              I don’t think Big Oil’s interests align very well with We The People’s.

              • I have clean air, clean water and my vehicles have good gas mileage for what they are. Renewables are a joke. Never gonna work for the masses. Besides, after your robots take over and socialism gets a hold, nobody will be able to afford electric cars. Be lucky to afford a horse and buggy if the far Left get their way 😀

              • Oil is our friend…..oil is our friend….buy more oil…..buy more oil……oil is our friend…..

                Bwahahhahahha……………………oil is our friend….oil is our friend….SUV’s are our friend….Pick up trucks are our friend……oil is necessary………….buy more oil…buy more oil…buy more oil.

              • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

                Mathius, you were not around before we started cleaning up. Every year we do better. The stats are there for anyone to find and this is despite the population doubling in the past sixty years.

                I’ve always been willing to trade off carbon for Nuke but that’s off the table for the past 30 years. I am NOT dumb enough not to know the downside environmentally of wind and solar. Most are. They can see smoke from chimneys producing power here or exhaust from a diesel on the highway. They cannot see it in China and elsewhere manufacturing “clean energy” products but they are breathing it.

  33. A hypothetical for you.

    SUPPOSE

    Suppose that We The People rose up and executed every single person in the political power structure. President, VP, House, Senate, governors, mayors, town councilor, every judge, every cabinet member, every major figure in the DNC/RNC, every super-delegate, every general, all but one colonel, every political appointee to any department, the Fed board, every PAC, every super-pac, every lobbyist, every super-donor (Koch/Soros), every dog-catcher… all of ’em.

    BUT

    As we did so, we randomly drafted via lottery private citizens to step into their roles. Fully random just US citizens old enough to meet any relevant Constitutional requirements.

    The guillotine falls on the President and some poor schmuck is dragged onto the stage and told that he is now the new President until 2020 and no longer will be in charge of stocking vending machines. The new Chief Justice is an 18 year old barista. A man with late stage dementia who believes he is an emu is now a 5-star general. The mayor of New York is is a former janitor from Meridian, Idaho. The head of the treasury is some guy named Bob who just got out of jail for Grand Theft Tractor.

    —————

    Does “I’d rather be governed by the first 100 names of the phone book” actually work? Would the old system re-assert itself? Would it just collapse? Would China seize the opportunity and nuke us into oblivion?

    Have fun with it… how does this play out?

    • I don’t see why this is an issue.

      A “promise” isn’t an actual “binding” action from the office of the POTUS. He can promise anything he wants to anyone he wants and, unless he’s under oath, I’m unclear why there should ever need to be any kind of investigation or whistle-blowing.

      I can certainly see how a promise might seem concerning to an intelligence officer but, especially with this President, there is no reason to ever actually believe that it’s binding in any way or will be followed up with any kind of commensurate action. Maybe he’s lying. Maybe he’s blustering. Maybe he’s manipulating the other party. Who knows.

      Until he actually acts in a way that’s unlawful or objectively against american interests or or or or or or… until he actually does something, I cannot see what he has done wrong enough for it to be worthy of such pearl-clutching.

      I mean, this President breaks more promises than I’ve made in my entire life.. so I really don’t see why anyone would take any promises he makes seriously.

      • Perhaps the “whistle blower” is deep state…..I hate whislte blowers anyway…they have to prove nothing and never have to worry about prosectution of lying.

      • I mean, this President breaks more promises than I’ve made in my entire life.. so I really don’t see why anyone would take any promises he makes seriously.

        Trump has kept more campaign promises than any of the last 20 Democrat Presidents combined. But for the sake of fairness, what has he broken?

        • Trump has kept more campaign promises than any of the last 20 Democrat Presidents combined.

          Of course he say.. because he has made 10 times as many campaign promises as any of them. The fun thing about Trump is that he’s taken every side of pretty much every issue. He just says whatever he feels like at that moment in time.

          But for the sake of fairness, what has he broken?

          …. Well…. let’s just take a look back at some of his campaign promises, shall we? At a glance…….

          How ’bout making Mexico pay for the wall?

          Cancelling funding for sanctuary cities?

          Enacting congressional term limits?

          Appointing special prosecutor for H. Clinton?

          Eliminate the deficit / shrink the debt?

          Massive infrastructure bill?

          Federal hiring freeze?

          Eliminate common core?

          Drain the swamp? (HA!)

          Hire the best people? (HA!)

          De-fund planned parenthood?

          Renegotiate Iran deal?

          Amend libel laws?

          Block ISIS from the internet?

          Re-institute water boarding (read: torture)?

          Repeal ObamaCare?

          Change the childhood vaccination schedule?

          Allow individuals to deduct health care insurance premiums from taxes?

          Administer Medicaid through block grants?

          Deport millions of illegal immigrants?

          Establish a ban on Muslims entering the U.S.?

          Remove existing Syrian refugees?

          Mandatory minimum sentences for criminals caught trying to enter the United States illegally?

          End birthright citizenship?

          Increase visa fees?

          Sue his accusers of sexual misconduct?

          Not take vacations?

          Be too busy to golf?

          Release his tax returns after an audit is completed?

          Create targeted child care tax credits?

          Cut taxes for everyone? (Mine are sure as hell higher)

          Cut the number of tax brackets?

          Repeal the alternative minimum tax?

          Eliminate the carried interest loophole?

          Save the coal industry?

          Change the name of Mount Denali back to Mount McKinley?

          Stop the AT&T Time Warner Merger?

          Eliminate the estate tax?

          4 percent economic growth a year??

          • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

            The wall pays for itself. I wish people would basically get that. The savings on public services alone make that up.

            The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

            Lao Tzu

  34. https://www.foxnews.com/media/woman-confronts-beto-gun-confiscation-hell-no

    HA HA, Beto get’s told “Hell NO, You’re not” by woman no less. Of course the rude Lefty’s couldn’t keep their traps shut and had to be told to be respectful. Liberal’s have a major problem with respect. Credit to Beto for asking for some.

  35. Canine Weapon says:

    This one is for Anita:

    Let’s zoom in a bit…

    • Hawaii is beautiful, and I will visit again before I die, but you can’t roadtrip in Hawaii…so that’s a no go. San Fransisco is a no because I only shit in the woods, not on the sidewalk. New York…hell no..can’t even see the sky, much less a tree. The southeast is just too hot.

      I’m moving to Canada then, out in the woods, with my virtual bushcraft buddies.

  36. Canine Weapon says:

  37. Equine Weapon says:

  38. Just A Citizen says:

    Lil’ JAC loves Blue Bloods. Every night he comes in the living room, about 9 pm and wants to watch one or two shows with me. We are on our third time around on Netflix.

    The other night the theme was once again to hammer home the idea of the Broken Window theory of Law Enforcement which states that if you let small crimes go unpunished it breeds bigger and bigger crimes. Cause the criminals think they will get away with it.

    I understand there was data collected to support this during the recovery of NY, from violent hell hole to where it is today, or was before DeBlasio.

    But the arguments used we just so irrational I thought I would share. Much like those I posed above for the Colonel to justify gun registration.

    So the story line goes: Without cops the whole country would devolve rapidly to a shit hole violent state of anarchy.

    Allowing the police to enforce every little knit picking law is somehow going to keep a potential thief or murderer from stealing or killing.

    Enforcing these knit picking laws admittedly causes tension in the community…especially the minority neighborhoods. Where I presume attitudes create more small violations which get enforced which makes it look like the cops are picking on the minorities. Round and round it goes.

    Without Broken Windows the city will devolve to the shit hole it was before……

    Over the years the show has done a good job of staying current and portraying this dichotomy or catch 22 if you will between LEO and neighborhoods. The more you enforce the less crime but the more the people hate you. Cause you arrested lil’ Johnny who wasn’t doin anything wrong, except selling Crack on the corner. He is a good kid after all.

    It does raise the questions though and I see few good answers. LEO across the country has tried to improve their outreach to citizens to mixed returns. Seem to me the more crime in a place the less successful. Which leads me to the conclusion that the solution is not more policing. It is a Fence with gates manned by the LEOs. People get checked into and outof these shit holes. You cannot come OUT with a weapon. But you CAN go in with a weapon. Then let them sort it out.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      Being a biased observer I got to watch up close and personal the effects of Broken Window theory.

      Now I ask you, as an ordinary citizen, How long it would take you to get used to some of the following:

      Graffiti painted on everything not moving (in the case of the subways they were moving!)

      Public intoxication on your front steps

      Public urination on your front steps

      Ghetto blasters going at 120db plus, till the wee hours of the morning on your front steps.

      Marijuana smoking on your front steps

      Drug sales on your front steps

      People jumping subway turnstiles while you patiently wait your fare card in hand.

      Vendors blocking the sidewalk in front of your home.

      Vendors selling the same merchandise that you do on your sidewalk in front of the store you rent for $ 2,000 per month.

      Cars triple parked in front of your home.

      Cars abandoned on your street and allowed to sit there for months until someone finally torches them.

      You see JAC it happens to real people every single day. The end result in many cases was the folks who did not like it leaving. From a neighborhood preservation point of view, they were the GLUE holding the disparate composition of the neighborhood together. When they go, the tax base goes, public services go, the small voices crying out for calm are overwhelmed and buildings start getting abandoned. Nobody cares anymore.

      The cops will always be perceived as an occupying force I am afraid in the marginal neighborhoods. Here in the suburbs, aptly called “Whitelandia” by lawyer/activist Ron Kuby, Bill Kuntzler’s acolyte, the cops tend to be ass##### more than not. They are playing at something which is very real just 13 miles away in the big apple.

      Again, I almost puked the other night watching Al Sharpton, “Civil Rights Leader” on C-Span lecturing on the police. This guy gets traction only because all decent people do not stand up. I was thinking if I were at that hearing and my turn as a rep.came to speak, I would say, “Mr Sharpton until such time as you confess and apologize for your actions in the Tawana Brawley fraud and the Freddies fashion mart riot in Harlem which cost Seven lives, I believe there is nothing that you can say that is believable.I have nothing but utter contempt for you and believe in my heart that the only person you represent is yourself.” I would then rise and leave urging my colleagues to join me.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy%27s_Fashion_Mart_attack

  39. WORLD—Liberals seem to have a problem as more Justin Trudeau blackface photos have surfaced. Meanwhile, Democratic politicians in America continue to say anti-semitic things.

    In their defense, liberals have come out to clarify that their racism isn’t the destructive kind condemned by most of humanity, but rather, it’s a new improved form called “democratic racism.”
    “It’s not racism—it’s democratic racism,” Justin Trudeau assured supporters as 78 new images surfaced of him in various shades of brown makeup. “It’s totally different from regular racism, and to imply that our racism is the same as the bad kind of racism is ignorant.”
    To separate the new democratic racism from old, boring racism, liberals pointed out that their form is very popular, and that their base is willing to defend their racist actions and comments. “See, they voted for us, and no matter what crazy racist comments we make, they’ll vote for us again,” said Ilhan Omar. “Where regular racism is condemned by all, democratic racism is voted for by our supporters. So it’s, like, democratic.”
    “Also, white men are bad.”

  40. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/09/soros_and_the_whistleblower_nonscandal.html

    Interesting theory, if one hates Trump and doesn’t want Biden to win, this would certainly, as the old saying goes, “kill two birds with one stone”.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      V.H.

      Here is another really good piece by Turley. He even goes into the blowup on both sides that could ensue.

      https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/462445-ukraine-could-badly-damage-both-donald-trump-and-the-democrats

      • I find, I don’t feel that the VP stopping an investigation is the same thing as someone saying the stoppedinvesrigation should resume. But I’m still looking at all the new information.
        And posting as I find them.
        https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1175247598099156992

        The above is relevant, don’t you think!

        • Just A Citizen says:

          V.H.

          I saw that in a story yesterday and thought they just breezed over it so it must have been a misunderstanding. Now it looks like it is not.

          So YES it is important regarding the Whistle Blower rules. Now you have to wonder why the IG claimed it qualified. Although IG’s tend to be that way…. there job is to investigate the agency so they are usually pretty deferential to anyone with a story. Although the guy who interviewed with Cuomo supported my experience with both IG’s and Whistle Blower rules.

          In short, this doesn’t pass the test and I think DOJ had legitimate reasons for saying so.

          Now for the real question. Which we may never know. What did Mr. Trump actually say that got this started?

          Remember, first reports were he “promised” something. Now it is just that he asked for them to reopen the investigation.

          By the way, there is a story on the net where the current leader of Ukraine said some time back, like last year or longer, that the investigation into the Biden company was over and no wrong doing was found……….”because Ukraine doesn’t have laws making large payment to executives illegal.” I think this gives us some idea of what the issue was regarding young Biden. Not just getting invited on the board of directors but gettting an really really big fat check.

  41. ROFLMAO! Biden says Trump trying to intimidate a foreign leader is abuse of power. Too long hanging around Obama.

  42. Just A Citizen says:

    Proof that many Aussies have that ol’ American Spirit, maybe more so that we do.

    https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2019/09/21/watch-australian-broadcaster-takes-spoiled-climate-protesting-students-epic-fashion/

    Although I did hear Buck Sexton say pretty much the same thing on the radio last night. Along with “why is Congress giving kids a platform to talk about things they have no way of knowing about”?

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      I think it important to keep reminding people of the failed “scientific” predictions about population, food running out, and the new ice age.

      Science has been pretty much bastardized in the past 40-50 years.

  43. https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-hopkins-ice-contracts-20190919-usyyyelpnvb77mbhoea42gafxu-story.html

    The stupidity is just hard to believe. First beds, now emergency aid, and they claim they want to help people.

    • Carson is exactly right. It costs upwards of $50K just to get a permit to build a single home here. Then there are more fees after that.

  44. https://news.yahoo.com/loved-weed-then-vomiting-began-184850933.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

    This I’ve never heard of, until now. Opinions on how this fits into the debate on legalization. This isn’t the pot my generation was smoking. I was shocked by how strong it is now.

    • VH..there is not much you can do…..let the idiots smoke the weed they want….when enough of them die….someone will begin to believe it. I will continue to drug test and I will continue to not hire those that test positive. I have even had my testing site lower the nanogram levels to include passive inhalation. If that means that I will not hire very many people, so be it.

      It is the same as smoking cigarettes. If they want to kill themselves….let them.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        We have had people telling us for 50 years that Mary Jane was harmless….less harmful than smoking (though, truth be told why should putting one type of smoke in your lungs be better than another type) less harmful than a glass of wine. I do not see people accepting this new diagnosis readily.

        As to the “Mom” in this story. She must have rocks in her head instead of brains. Kid dropped out of school in ninth grade and she doesn’t see the link. Worked for enough money to buy his weed while living at home? THIS is what we have to look forward to?

        • You don’t think this would be a situation where regulation might be the best answer? As far as work, I wouldn’t let people come to work drunk or high.

      • VH….I just got off the phone with my testing agency to verify the testing of THC components. One thing we were having a problem with in Texas was the legalizatin of hemp. The marijuana users were trying to use hemp to disguise the marijuana. Hemp smells the same when burning and when the police would stop and smell a car, it was difficult to know the difference. So, we test for THC levels. (.03) will fail the test. Since we deal in heavy machinery and oil field equipment, we require that even sub contractors be drug free and that includes THC in their system. Marijuana users will constantly say that it does not affect reaction times and that their senses are greater and better….but that is bull shit. It does affect reaction times and now, with the introduction of chemicals into marijuana to make it stronger, it is becoming a much worse situation.

        • Also, according to our testing facility, passive inhalation, which in the past has been scoffed at, is becoming more and more a problem. The added chemicals that the pushers are putting into the marijuana is causing the smoke hanging in the iar to be more dangerous than ever before. I am being told that the unintentional inhalation of marijuana smoke, say at a party, is becoming just as dangerous as “snagging the weed” (whatever that means).

          I can agree with Mathius that if someone wants to smoke this shit….ok it is their body. But when it starts to harm those around them (passive smoke in public places) it is not ok. According to our professionals, with the new chemicals, not only is the passive smoke more dangerous but the users are hurting themselves more and do not realize it.

          In my research on this a little more has come to surface. In order to make the marijuana last longer…..say an ounce…the addition of whatever chemicals that are being introduced extends an ounce to two ounces. In other words, twice the amount. I am finding that the legal stores that sell this crap buy an ounce and make it two ounces….it becomes very profitable. It is called “cutting”, I believe. Anyway, it is becoming a problem on the street.

          • I can agree with Mathius that if someone wants to smoke this shit….ok it is their body.

            Yupppp…

            But not on company time, it ain’t.

            If you’re impaired doing your job, you’re not doing your job.

            THAT SAID, residual markers in the blood indicating that they WERE high, but not suggesting that they ARE high should be irrelevant.

            It is called “cutting”, I believe. Anyway, it is becoming a problem on the street.

            Then you should buy from a better retailer.

            Also, pot SHOULD be very cheap… the only reason cutting it is profitable is because it’s so artificially expensive.

            • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

              It will never be cheap! Cuts into tax revenue. What is it for a pack of Marlboro’s in NYC now, 12 bucks? 20 cents for the cigarettes, a dollar for advertising, 15 cents for transportation and distribution and $ 10.65 for the Governor and Mayor!

            • Well, it is legal in Colorado and the reason there is a black market is because the legal companies are charging higher rates…..

        • Marijuana users will constantly say that it does not affect reaction times and that their senses are greater and better….but that is bull shit.

          I’ve never heard anyone make this ridiculous claim.

          • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

            You have not been hanging out with the right dopers. It also enhances sexual pleasure, makes you more appreciative of color and sound, enhances the taste of mallomars and keeps your teeth clean and your breath fresh all day!.

  45. A new thread is posted.

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