The Message Is Lost

I don’t know a single decent person who liked what happened to George Floyd.  What could have been a unifying message to all police has been lost.  The losers and dregs of society came out like cockroaches and acted like idiots, looting, burning, destroying business’s that had nothing to do with George Floyd or the cops.  Let’s remember, this didn’t start recently.  The Black Lives Matter Group are several years old.  This could get worse before it gets better.  Kent State 2020 may be coming.



  1. Toady/Tonight should be interesting.

  2. You should probably re-read that first line.

  3. IF, in two weeks or so, there are no spikes in Covid-19 cases where protests are happening is going to cause some problems for politicians. This will be interesting to watch for.

    George Floyd may not have been died as everyone thinks. Could this be an overdose? It’s not uncommon for folks to swallow drugs to keep from getting caught with them. Just a thought.

  4. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Having been down this road before, I think that truth will go down hard.

    This morning the MN gov. and Mayor are blaming it on drug cartels and White Supremacist groups!

    The next five cops who die in the US from ambush owe it all to this Minneapolis jerk.

    In a sane world, since his life is over anyway, the cop should be handed a pistol and one bullet.

    Gonna re-post what I posted on the old thread.

    I actually wonder just who else is old enough here to remember when college campus stopped being taken over by rioting radicals and the burning of campus buildings stopped. …. I remember that as being right after Kent State.

    I have heard ONE story about a “protesters” being shot dead by a storekeeper two days back while he was in the act of looting. Have heard nothing since. The very liberal NY State law allows the use of deadly force to, among other things, prevent arson.

    You do not “lead” or “communicate” during a riot. Leading is ending that riot by any means necessary. I did NOT say protest, I said RIOT. For thirty years I drove past a burned out A & P store in Brownsville Brooklyn that got torched in a riot in the late 1960’s. The A & P never came back which ruined the community. The Mom and Pops on the same street and around the block never came back either. Folks literally had to walk a mile to do basic food shopping or pay a 50% mark-up from teh local bodega.

    Here is an analogy that will drive you nuts…. Was it better to have killed 200,000 people with the two A bombs dropped in 1945 or invade with 100,000 American Dead, another 900,000 wounded and an estimated 10,000,000 Japanese dead? There are people,who claim to be sane who still argue with me about that one. Burning down a neighborhood is NOT an approved way to either redress a grievance, gain justice or provide milk at an affordable price for your kiddies after the Stop and Shop is gone.

    Anybody notice that there are as many WHITE rioters as there are Black? ANTIFA raising its ugly head again. Perhaps MORE white rioters, certainly in Brooklyn last night.

    • This morning the MN gov. and Mayor are blaming it on drug cartels and White Supremacist groups!

      I would like to know how they could possibly know this when the cops are totally absent and no one has been arrested. Seems to me their utter failure of leadership is front and center and they are trying to…LIE their way out of it.

  5. GENEVA—WHO scientists have confirmed that the coronavirus only spreads at problematic protests, like conservative rallies, Trump campaign events, and Second Amendment rights demonstrations. The study found that the coronavirus will not spread at progressive protests or violent riots.

    The WHO study showed that only Republicans, 2nd Amendment demonstrators, and Trump supporters can spread dangerous viruses when they break lockdown to assemble and protest, not any other kind of protesters.

    “You only want people to die if you go protest for conservative causes — otherwise, you’re safe,” said a W.H.O. scientist as he mixed two differently colored liquids together. They exploded and his hair went straight back, burning his face. “AHHHHH!!!”

    Unfortunately, the scientist was later discovered to be a bunch of raccoons in a lab coat, so the results of the study may be suspect.

  6. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    I guess I’ve finally had it with my local all news channel on the radio, 1010 WINS. This AM they said, “Donald Trump used an old white segregationist meme yesterday when he said, You loot, we shoot”.

    Growing up in the heights just north of Harlem in the 1960;’s during the ’64 riots, Black business owners posted THAT very sign in their windows!

  7. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Watching this nonsense about systemic racism after eight years of a black Kenyan American President, I am absolutely flabbergasted. In New York City, after an excellent Police response last night in spite of the mayor which will probably be followed by a bad night tonight since there are calls for the Police to “stand down” by the elected officials . Ahh yes, they banged a few heads last night this “racist” police Department with an a 51% white majority, a 26 percent Hispanic membership and the remaining 23 percent being Black, Asian and “other” but I guess the rest are all Frito Banditos, Uncle Toms. or Charlie Chan’s!.

    I am seriously beginning to think that the Confederacy’s last shot against its former slaves descendents and the North in general was Lyndon Johnson’s “Great Society” which destroyed the black family and set back civil rights by 100 years.

    Sad story on the news this morning about a young 30ish black couple about to open a restaurant in Atlanta who watched it being torn apart in front of their eyes last night while they were in it. One longs for the days of Colonel Sam Colt…..who made all men equal.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      “black Kenyan American President”? Hmmm. Any reason he isn’t just “President Obama”. Some things at SUFA never change I guess. Cover your ears Canine Weapon. More dog whistling.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Look, I’m technically Russian American. The Bride is Irish American. I am NOT European American. We know Obama’s parentage so he is Kenyan-American with a very clear pedigree, much better than mine . Most African Americans who have NOT had DNA testing done have to settle for “just” African rather than Gambian. Congolese, Kenyan, etc. No disrespect intended, just trying to be accurate and NO, I do NOT believe he was born overseas and never did.

  8. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Another one for Mr. Hawkins, another town about 800 hundred yards from me.

    I’m working on that TR list for you. Have the family room in chaos at the moment for new carpeting and half my books are in a jumble behind another jumble beneath a third jumble.

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Eager to see the TR list!

      Your NJ article – fully expect to see stuff like this. Root cause and “5 why” that thing to death. Then fix it. But don’t infringe on my right to legally and securely vote.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Agai….Your right to “convenience” ends where my right to a free and fair election begins. You rugged individulasts give me a headache.

  9. GregGutfeld
    For the media and their political counterparts to finally admit that rioting and looting is bad, they had to decide on the acceptable group to blame. you see them working through their choices now.

  10. We need to come up with a new name for these riots. I challenge all SUFA members to provide 3 possible names. Here is my list:

    The CNN Riots, because CNN has called Trump a racist/white supremacists for 3 years and is a major contributor to the divide in the country..
    The Black Knights of Victimhood Riots
    The Black “I’m more equal than you” Riots
    The Soros Group Riots
    The BLM-Antifa Block Party

    I was expecting something like this to happen before the election. The timing is too early. I expected it in August but they struck when the opportunity presented itself. Is Soros behind this? If not Soros, then who or what is behind it?

    So what’s next? Are the big cities going to ask for a Federal bailout? Will all the big city Dems get re-elected? God forbid the NG comes in and there is a spike in the death toll. Naturally it will be all Trump’s fault.

    Just plain stupid.

  11. ATLANTA, GA—CNN executives were baffled by a large crowd outside their offices and in their lobby Friday, not having seen an audience that size in many years.

    Execs quickly added the hundreds of people outside their offices to their audience numbers, more than doubling their ratings for the day.

    “Woohoo! It’s happening!” said the station’s founder, Bob CNN. “Brian! Anderson! Come quick! We’re finally drawing crowds! Years of hard work finally paying off!”

    Peering out the window, Brian Stelter muttered, “No social distancing or masks though. But we’ll take what we can get at this point.”

    Mr. CNN then walked through the lobby handing out fliers inviting the protesters back to watch CNN’s failing weekend shows Saturday and Sunday. “This is where it all turns around for us.”

  12. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    The “scientists” at the NIH are worried that the rioters will all catch Covid 19.


  13. Dallas, Texas…..this past weekend….A small group of rioters, led by out of state individuals, attack a local store in a black neighborhood. The owner, a black man, tries to protect his store with a machete, gets beaten up and the u tube videos show it all.

    Within two hours, the Governor of Texas made the following statement: “You have a right in Texas to use deadly force to protect yourself and your property. Be guided accordingly.”

    A review for those that have forgotten…..The Texas Castle Doctrine extends beyond your home to cars, planes, boats, and business. All this to say, you can protect your property with deadly force if you so choose. There is no litmus test.

    Now, the police cannot be everywhere at once. Rioting is not just a law enforcement issue. It is a national issue. These cities that are burning down have made their decision to turn the other way…..let them burn, then.

    I think it also interesting to note, that since the Governor of Texas made this statement….there have been no more incidences. Coincidence? You make the call. This is not to say it will not happen..but if it does there will be dead people. Everybody here owns a gun and why the store owner that was beaten only had a machete.,,.,who knows. When he was interviewed, he said he now owns a gun.

  14. Gotta hand it to the Flint PD and to the protesters. . Protesters started approaching their building…they were lined up ready to defend it…but instead, as the crowd approached, the cops all took a knee and said they stood with the protesters. They all marched peacefully together. Cool.

    Some of the videos Ive been watching have been heartbreaking. The guy being drug by the FedEx truck. My God! A no win situation. But I sure did like this one.

    • Ugh!!!! They took it down that quick. black female started slapping a white officer…twice…officer took it for the team, but his black partner gave the female what she deserved..a nice roundhouse to the chin. Put her flat on her back. Take that, sister!!

      Been noticing Twitter has taken down lots of riot videos.

    • Wah HA…..ya just can’t fix stupid.

      • Were you able to view that right here on SUFA? I’m not able to, but it still plays on the guy’s Twitter page.

        • I can see it, that was great. Knocked her right on her fat ass 😀 😀

          • 🙂 I’ve probably watched it a dozen times. At least the one guy said “that was her fault tho”

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Curious of any current/former LE – is chucking a right hook to her face the trained response? Not at all condoning what she did. My blood boils. A solid punch to the face like that and she is out cold before she hits the ground and her head bounces off the pavement and…..well….last thing that cop needs is a dead bad actor since he didn’t restrain her or take her down. Just asking.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        With her quick 1-2, I would guess the cop assumed she would follow up with 3,4,5,6. THAT was no lightweight. It was NOT an open handed slap either.

      • In the old days it would have been a baton.

  15. One thing about these things……just like wearing hoodies. When I see a face mask being worn….not a covid one, but a face mask designed to conceal….they are going to be automatically guilty. These kids running around in these Antifa masks and BLM masks,,,,throwing their fists in the air….I do not know why the local government do not stop this. These are anarchists that are openly breaking the law….they have no rights.

    And, the other thing that has to have Mathius and Ray upset….is the fact the the progressive movement and the left is getting the blame from CNN and MSNBC…..and, it is the progressive left that is being tied to these (they are not protests) riots.

    • CNN today: This movement was met with extreme force…..
      Talking about the NG yesterday in Minneapolis.

      FOX today: Liberal hack said Trump called black protestors THUGS…..
      He was corrected but kept on his lying rant.

      It is totally the progressive Left doing this. Maybe Trump can find the funding source. Soros and the DNC wouldn’t surprise me.

      This is the Democrats self imposed voter suppression, they just don’t realize it yet.

    • Mathius says:

      And, the other thing that has to have Mathius and Ray upset….is the fact the the progressive movement and the left is getting the blame from CNN and MSNBC

      I don’t give a shit who CNN and MSNBC blame.


    “We were staying in the lane that we were asked to support this,” he said.” Idiot!!! You could support the protesters and still plan for possible, probable problems. So how many days was this encouraged by their refusal to do nothing. What has it cost, in life, property and livelihoods? I’d say those costs are incalculable.

  17. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    So, obviously in the Peeples Republik of Oakland, this black life does not matter.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      So, they cut it out because it was a photo of the Black Federal Officer shot and killed the other night. One cannot possibly show any truth now can one?

  18. Thought to ponder:

    If you’re a hairdresser and do not obey the Crats and stay closed, they will send armed police and take you to jail in handcuff’s then demand you apologize or lock you up for a week.

    But, if your a rioter, you can run freely through the city and burn down the hairdressers shop with no repercussions.

    See the problem here?

  19. Just A Citizen says:

    I have been very busy lately, building the new farm and other things. No fishing yet but coming soon.

    My point is that is was so strange to get on SUFA the other night to find the world had gone even more crazy that it had two months ago. Missed the cop kneeling on the guy’s neck, and the rioting that followed.

    Our police are right now in Spokane, WA to help the locals over there keep the PEACE. Riots and looting in Seattle and surrounding areas. Thank God our daughter decided to come stay with us for awhile. Also thankful she picked up her new pistola last week. Now to get her to the gun range to practice before she returns to the left coast.

    • Keep working JAC! We might need that compound for a bug out spot. Could I put in an order for a shack next to the fire pit? Don’t need utilities until winter and that will only be for plumbing. But I will need some internet and a cook top wood burner. 🙂

      • I got yer back and all your needs 😀

        Closer too. Firewood stocked, firepower ready.

        • Thanks G. I’ll be there. I live in Wayne County, pop 1.7 million, but I’m all of 5 mins from Washtenaw County, pop 367,000. Still too many people. My city has 22,000, about 21k more than I’d prefer. A major international airport is right smack in the middle of the city. Thankfully I’m on the country corner of the city. But add 2 major freeways and 2 busy rail lines within blocks of me and I’m doomed. Forget the justice, I just want peace!

      • Just A Citizen says:


        I am afraid it isn’t a great bug out spot as we are in town and surrounded by people. At least by our standards. Might be a good one for those surrounded by more people than we are.
        Which is about 150,000 spread over a big county. Probably 50,000 folks within ear shot, that is how far you can hear or feel a 30.06 shot. The new place added to the old gives us 4.5 acres. And coincidentally, the new place has a “shack” on it and I just finished installing a fire pit this past week. Must have been picking up yer signals.

        The “Cabin” as we call it has gas heat plus fireplace, hot and cold water (no shower yet and bath has issues) and a flush toilet. Cook stove is electric, so you could save wood for heat and “ambiance”. I know that kind of thing is important to you women folk, chuckling to self with images of Anita throwing an axe at the water meter reader dude.

        You know you are welcome………anytime…………… which is the time when I am here and not there or somewhere. 🙂

        • Keep the shack handy for me. I’d love to visit. But I’m gonna have to bug out at GMan’s place. I’ve seen his neighborhood. Looks like he only has a few people within earshot.

  20. This riot stuff won’t be lasting much longer. Enough is enough.

  21. The overwhelming majority of Americans were convinced that the office committed a crime. Now, however, any sympathy for the black community is lost.

    There was another video posted that showed the car being pulled over and the occupants being removed by police. The victim was the driver and was removed last from the car and handcuffed immediately. He was then walked passed a police car and across the street to the car shown in the video of him on the ground. I did not see how he ended up on the ground. While crossing the street he was either being partially dragged or was unstable on his feet due to intoxication. He had one cop on each side holding his arms.

    In the video of him on the ground with a knee on his neck, there is a stream of fluid exiting under the car heading to the gutter.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      T Ray

      I saw one account which stated that the Victim went limp in an attempt to keep from being put in the car. He kept claiming he was claustrophobic and couldn’t be put in the car. Even though he was driving a car when approached.

      Red State had a minute by minute rundown of what happened and what the officers were saying to each other and the victim. It was all recorded on their personal cameras.

      By the way, he was arrested on suspicion of trying to pass off counterfeit money.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Gentlemen, there are NO excuses here. The man was controlled. That was one sick SOB cop. I’ve met a few in my time. I am in favor of giving him back his belt now that it is too late to leave him alone in a room with a revolver and a single bullet.

        Here is a part of the Eric Gardiner video from a few years back where the Staten Island Prosecutor (later elected to Congress) refused to indict and after sitting behind a desk for five years and being paid, the organ grinder monkey mini-cop that murdered him was finally at last long fired. There were at least 13 cops present including two as big as the victim. The ONLY person punished? The EMT lady whom the cops told to lie about Gardiner not being dead to prevent a riot.The ME judged it as a “heart attack”. Brought on by what I wonder?

        Don’t be surprised if the Minneapolis ME decides it was Covid 19.

        • I am not making excuses. What happened was totally wrong. I just want to know the full story. I do believe that the local ME, FBI and a family appointed ME should examine the body. Much of our current race issues stem from the cover ups by police and the race baiting and incitement by the MSM and politicians. I simply want the truth and those that committed any crimes to be punished. That would include any offices, DAs etc. who lie in the process. Reporters who distort and knowingly lie about the facts in the case should be fired.

        • Mathius says:

          Gentlemen, there are NO excuses here. The man was controlled. That was one sick SOB cop. I’ve met a few in my time.


          I’ve known a few cops in my days, and it strikes me that there are only three types of people who go into policework.

          A) I just need a steady paycheck and decent retirement benefits. The police are hiring, so let’s go with that.

          B) I love my community and feel a duty to protect and serve my people. I want to live a life of meaning and contribute to law and order.

          C) I loved being a bully in high school, but it’s hard now that I’m an adult. I know! If I just had a badge….

          I couldn’t speculate the percentages for each group, but C can’t be more than 10% (MAX) in any department without inciting riot.. ooh… hmm…


          Mathius still remembers his very first traffic stop.. 10, maybe 15 over. Nothing catastrophic, but certainly ticket-worthy. The cop was absolutely justified and right to pull me over, and absolutely right to give me a ticket – which he did.

          The cop, Officer Bigrig (no, seriously, that’s his name Big Rig), big meathead of a guy, kept calling me “son” to the point where I was nearly out of my skull trying to keep polite. He knew it – I know he knew it – I could see it on his face – and I swear he got off on it. It wasn’t even casual.. it was a very deliberate and condescending son. Like he was trying to goad me into giving him an excuse to write a bigger ticket.

          (to be fair, at no point did I actually say the words “don’t call me son”.. I was 17 and desperately trying to keep from escalating)

          The point is, that cop used his authority to piss me off. Deliberately. Not just to do his job, but to lord it over me. “You have to call me ‘sir’ but I’m going to call you ‘son’ and there’s nothing you can do about it.” It’s not just that he didn’t “respect me” which is.. meh.. whatever.. but that he went out of his way to show disrespect. He belongs firmly in Category C.

          Many, many, many years later, I saw Hamilton, and there’s a scene where Washington keeps calling Hamilton “son” until he explodes.. man, I felt that in my soul.

          Every other time I’ve been pulled over, the cop has been polite, civil, and called me “sir,” even when I was barely old enough to vote. I’ve had several interactions that ended in a handshake and wishing the cop a good day, even after getting the ticket. But not that first guy. That first guy is the kind of guy who keeps his knee on a subdued detainee’s neck for 9 minutes if he thinks he can get away with it.

          • Let’s face it…….there are bad people out there….even cops.

            • I have had only one problem with the police attitudes…..and it was when I was a youngster (age 19) driving a Blue Firebird 400….waaaaaaay to fast and I got pulled over. The policeman asked me if I knew how fast I was going…(which he obviously knew) ….to which my smart ass mouth said…”You tell me. You are the one with the radar gun”. He was not amused. He made me get out of the car and put me in the back seat of his car and told me to cool of my smart mouth while he checked me out. I did as I was told.

            • Mathius says:

              The problem has a couple aspects to it:

              A) “bad cops” are generally often / seemingly protected by the institution and fellow cops unless / until it’s too egregious. The cop killed Floyd had shot three people, killing one, and had TWELVE complaints against him for excessive force (including two for which he was reprimanded).* He should have been purged long ago. That he wasn’t speaks volumes about how seriously the force considers such matter.. until… “oops.. we got caught on tape..”

              B) Cops have extra “power” in society and in interactions with civilians. With this great power should come great responsibility. Yet, it seems, that the extra duty-of-responsibility sometimes fails to manifest. Instead of “servants of the people,” too often police seem to see themselves as “above” the people. And this is a problem.

              C) Though a small (perhaps vanishingly small) percentage of the police force, “bad apples” spoil the bunch. How many floating turds are “acceptable” in your swimming pool? If the answer is “zero,” then you see the problem here. Even if the force were pristine and saintly, having one guy murder a man in custody on camera is going to create, shall we say, a public relations problem. Having any kind of track record of this kind of thing is a major problem.


              *written from memory – facts may differ slightly, but the gist is right.

              • A) Yes… are correct on this one…..I have seen it many times in the military. You protect “the brotherhood”. We have corrected this about 90% in the military, but it still happens. The cops that stood around and watched this…..should also be purged. All of them.

                B) Yes…you are correct. (2 for 2 with me so far)

                C) Yes…you are correct. (A clean sweep).

              • Mathius says:

                A clean sweep


                ::cue the marching bands::

  22. Just A Citizen says:

    If the Chief of Police in Minneapolis had taken his officers, who arrested Floyd, out in the street and summarily executed them do you think it would have made a difference?

    I don’t.

  23. Pretty peaceful the last couple of days……Fort Worth had a protest of sorts. About 200 people starting marching towards the affluent side of town and the more upscale shops….they were stopped along the way… stayed peaceful until an antifa member threw a frozen water bottle at one policeman….he did not throw another as it is very hard to throw more bottles when knocked out by a well aimed rubber bullet to the forehead. He was from Chicago flown in here especially for this march. The Fort Worth Police had great intelligence that this march was organized to go into the more upscale areas and start looting.

    There are curfews in Dallas and Houston…..all being patrolled by armed members of the National Guard who is keeping a very low profile and staying well out of the way of law enforcement until they are needed. The black female Police Chief of Dallas, after the first looting, has said NO MORE. Not in my town.

    Other than that,,,,,not much is happening. Most shop owners are protecting their own property with weaponry and the Adjutant General of Texas has said that no charges will be filed for protecting personal property and life.

    No one has tried to force their way in since the statements were made.

  24. Moderation, Please.

  25. Finally, something to smile about. 😀

    A group led by conservatives protected their neighborhood Target from being looted in South Philly. Saw them chanting “4 more years” a little after midnight.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      Yes and they were enjoying adult beverages too… A good sign. It is kinda funny that with all the proliferation of firearms in the past decade especially the AR clones, there ain’t exactly a whole lot of dead rioters around.

      Americans are a patient and peaceful people by and large but our ANTIFA friends should remember Yamamoto’s quote after Pearl Harbor.

      “I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.”

  26. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    And YOU don’t believe in the devil!

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      Such a totally cool picture…..Stephen King’s’ The “Trashcan Man” from “the Stand:”.

      • Mathius says:

        YES! That’s the image!

        Great book in the first half.. then took a weird fantasy twist around the half-way mark… I knew it was Stephen King, but it started out as Robin Cook and ended up as Dean Koontz… ::shrug::

  27. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Yea, Yea, verily I say unto you, I have hit the friggen nail on the head yet again.

    Occupy Wall Street followed by the G-20 protests followed by ANTIFA gatherings to protest cops followed by ANTIFA riots to shut down speakers were merely dry runs for ….the big one! the BIG ONE has arrived.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      Mayor DeBlasio’s little girl busted for “unlawful assembly”. While cops were occupied elsewhere, a bunch of out of staters looted 5th Avenue retail stores. Planning! Planning! Planning!

  28. Mathius says:

    I’d like to try this again and see if we can have a better conversation:


    What I see here is a bunch of police officers responding to a cluster of people who are CLEARLY reporters (and who identified as reporters and who are wearing reporter ID badges and have a big microphone and a big camera) who are behaving in a CLEARLY non-threatening manner being arrested. The man on camera clearly states that this is where he was told to stand (no, we don’t know this is true) but then repeatedly offers to clear the area and stand wherever the officers want them to. And then, next thing we know, the reporter and then his team are being arrested.

    To the police’s credit, they did not use any violence or behave otherwise unprofessionally (eg swearing at the reporters or insulting them, etc). But I cannot fathom a justification for arresting the team in this situation.

    Now, as some people have remarked, the report was a minority as was most (not all) of his team. And those same people have observed that CNN had another reporter a block away who was white with a white team, and he was told “you’re good” and left to do his reporting. I – personally – don’t know what to make of this information because the other guy just might have interacted with a different officer or been standing in a less volatile location or whatever. So I’m not going to scream racism at this.

    But I am racking my brains trying to find a way that what we see here is even remotely acceptable in AMERICA.


    Tray’s comments:
    1) They are wearing no CNN insignia.

    Who cares? They are clearly members of the press. They have a big ass camera, a big microphone, identified themselves – repeatedly, told the officers they were on air, weren’t looting, etc.

    Who cares if they were with CNN or blogging for SUFA? They’re still reporters doing reporting and not in any way being threatening.

    I get it, if this were a warzone and the cops were being shot at and there’s just this “group of people” standing around in the thick of it.. sure.. arrest them and sort it out later. But they weren’t. They had time to come over, stand around, hear what they said, and slowly, deliberately, one-by-one arrest the team, then go back and retrieve the camera.

    2) I did not see any press badges or IDs

    He retracted this when he saw the badge.

    3) They were being polite and respectful on camera but we do not know their attitude prior to this.

    I always hear this kind of thing and it always pisses me off.

    I do not have ANY obligation to be polite and respectful to the police and if I am a rude bastard, then that’s just tough shit for them.

    They cannot arrest you for being rude. To demand you be polite and respectful or else you’ll be arrested is not AMERICA.

    Now, I DO act polite and respectful when I interact with them because, well, they can be a bit twitchy sometimes and they are armed and I’d rather not get shot. And, also, since almost every interaction I have with them is due to a speeding infraction, being nice and police generally gets me a lesser ticket.

    4) I did not hear any orders from the police to move out of the area but they were the only ones there. Obviously the orders had been issued prior to the taping.

    I’m not sure where you’re going with this…

    5) The police presence in the area is too little too late as significant damage has already been done.

    Looks to be true, but I don’t know the full situation. Maybe a key intersection? CNN thought it was a good place to be, too.. soo…? Either way, what does this have to do with a bunch of reporters being arrested for no reason?


    Holy shit, why are you people not losing your shit over this? This is TERRIFYING.

    Is it because it’s CNN and not FOX?

    • Ray Hawkins says:

      Yeah – lot of explaining to do. I am sure in coming days you’ll see even more examples of excessive force – just feels like an impossible situation. Not too clear to me as LE you can train enough for something like this so muscle memory kicks in via emotion.

      • Mathius says:

        I don’t buy muscle memory as an excuse here. They had time to slow down and act deliberately.

        I get it if they just saw a group and then flying tacked them.. sure… makes sense.

        But that’s not what’s happening here. They stood around, the reporters talked, they left, they came back, then arrested one, walked him away, came back arrested another… that’s not a “muscle memory.”

    • I posted it because I would like to know the whole story. CNN has been known to stage the news. Did they do something off camera to trigger the police? We do not know and I doubt they would tell us. I also have no sympathy for CNN since they are one of worst race baiting networks.

      • Mathius says:

        Did they do something off camera to trigger the police?

        Does “triggering” the police justify arresting non-threatening reporters doing live reporting?

        I call bullshit.

        The police aren’t toddlers. They don’t get to use and ABUSE their powers because they were “triggered.”

        If I get pulled over for a routine traffic stop and I call the officer an asshole, but otherwise comply with his directions, he’s going to give me the worst ticket he can – sure – but he doesn’t get to arrest me.

        The First Amendment either IS or IS NOT a thing that exists.

        • If you accept everything CNN airs at face value, then you are naive.

          • Mathius says:

            I accept the things that I see with my eyes.

            Unless that video was edited – which I don’t see anyone claiming – then res ipsa locutor.

            I don’t have to belive CNN. I have to believe my eyes.

            Did they, maybe, throw a brick at a cop car, then run over to a different corner and turn on their camera, hoping the cops would put it together then come arrest them while playing victim? Seems a bit of a stretch – and also, you know, they were released an hour later, so if the police had a real reason to arrest them, then why release them so quickly. Where’s the counter-accusation by the police?

            You are looking at 8-ish minutes of straight video and saying “nope, I don’t believe my eyes. It’s CNN so, therefore, it has to be a lie.” You’ve started with the conclusion and worked backward into the reasoning which makes that possible. That’s backward.

            • Absolute BS. I said nothing or implied nothing of the kind. I simply said I do not trust CNN because they have lied in the past. I do not know all of the facts and quite frankly neither do you.

              • Mathius says:

                I do not know all of the facts and quite frankly neither do you.

                Again, I know what I see with my own eyes.

                It’s a straight video, no cuts, for ~8 minutes. Starts before the cops show up and ends after the arrests / detentions.

                I do not see what reasonably could have happened before that would cause this nor why, if something like that had happened, the reporters would have been released so quickly. I have seen no allegations that the video was deceptively edited or falsified. Even Fox is backing up CNN – and you know they’d be the first to jump on the bandwagon to blame the lying liberal media if they could.

                I conclude that, without further evidence, the thing likely is exactly what it looks like.

                Res. Ipsa. Loquitur.

                I do not know all of the facts and quite frankly neither do you.

                I get wanting the full picture, and I certainly fall into this camp a great deal of the time. And I still want more information.

                But here we have a pretty cut-and-dry video.

                At some point, we can trust our eyes and judgment as the best and most probable facts-in-evidence. If something comes out later, then, well, great, we can adjust, but it’s irrational to refuse to accept the evidence we do have when it is reasonably enough because we’re insisting on perfect information that may never be attainable.

                We have before, during, and after, uninterrupted, aired live. Are we going to refuse to render any opinions because of some hypothetical justification that might have happened outside the scope of that timeline but which didn’t result in any charges being pressed? Because you don’t trust CNN? I mean, this just seems pretty thin, no?

                “Yes, your honor, we agree that the defendant was covered in the victim’s blood, that he was the only one there that night, that he had means, motive, and opportunity, that he had made death threats, that she had called the police and reported him coming to kill her, and yes, he was holding the knife when the police arrested him and, yes, he confessed to everything… but have we ruled out aliens? No? Well then, we find him not guilty.”

              • So if you accept things you see with your eyes, then you believe in that the magician can pull a bird out of his arse. Not only are you naive but also gullible.

                As for Fox, they have always supported the 1st amendment even when their rivals are the victims. The reverse is not universally true.

        • Does “triggering” the police justify arresting non-threatening reporters doing live reporting? I call bullshit. The police aren’t toddlers. They don’t get to use and ABUSE their powers because they were “triggered.”

          NO the police are not toddlers….but there are triggers that can get a response. So, perhaps you should identify a trigger……

          Mathius’ walks up to the Colonel and calls him a disgusting son of a biscuit eater. The Colonel clocks Mathius. That is a justifiable and triggered response. You do not get to call me names and your first ad rights do not allow it.

          In the Guard, we are trained as riot police. We have our shields and helmets and riot guns and batons and all the neat stuff……including arrest powers. You can yell at us all you want. I do not care. You can walk in peaceful protest, I do not care. The minute you impede our actions, no matter how small, the minute you throw a rock, a frozen water bottle, we do not have a duty to retreat. If you come within range, you WILL be taken down. Those are triggers.

          I do not know the entire story of the CNN thing. I hate the news media with a passion and do not believe most of what I read and hear…..I do not know if the picture was edited….who knows for sure…….IF.,,,AND THAT IS A BIG IF…..they were arrested for simply being media, then that is wrong. HOWEVER, if they were told to move and did not move…..suffer the consequences.

          Like those of us in the military…..we do not allow media, at any time, to accompany us anywhere. Not anymore because of lousy reporting….and if the media shows up where they are not wanted, we will ask them to move. If they do not move, we will force the issue….(this is not a violation of the 1st amendment.) We consider them an impediment and most TV crews incite the crowds and things. It is amazing how brave people get when cameras show up.

          • Mathius says:

            HOWEVER, if they were told to move and did not move…..suffer the consequences.

            It’s pretty clear in the video that they’re offering to move. They said it repeatedly – just tell us where you want us and we’ll go.

            Just sayin’….

          • Mathius says:

            Colonel, did you watch the full video start-to-finish?

            It’s pretty… well it’s pretty egregious. The CNN guys were pretty damned compliant and non-threatening. I really cannot envisage the scenario wherein arresting them was the correct / valid response.

            That said, unlike your good self, I do not have relevant training, so maybe there’s something I’m missing. Something you’ll see that I didn’t.

            But from my perspective… it’s just so damned outrageous. Frankly, it’s one of the more shocking and terrifying things I’ve ever whitnessed in terms of the state of America. It’s something you’d expect to see in Turkey when a station is criticizing Erdogan, not something you’d expect to ever see in the US.

            And the fact that (A) it isn’t the biggest story in the country right now and that (B) a lot of conservatives seem to be playing it down or hemming and hawing.. well that’s just added awfulness.


            Mathius can’t help but wonder what would happen if Fox reporters had been arrested.. can’t you just smell the outrage and screaming about the First Amendment? Do you think people would be saying “yea, well, maybe they triggered the police off camera”? I think Trump would have hit the fucking ceiling, right behind Fox and Friends, and SUFA right behind him.

  29. Ray Hawkins says:

    Pretty hard watching this Country becoming unglued like this. The scale of protests had me nervous – the devolving into violence and looting was disgusting and angering to watch. Home here – Governor Wolf and Philly Mayor Kenney – total whiffs. Late on National Guard call-ups – neighborhoods terrorized (yeah I said it – the “T” word), business looted and burned. Cops I’ve known for 30+ years risking their lives to ensure protestors could protest then anxiously watching for the shit to float to the top and the criminals to surface (boy did the ever). Close friend and his husband and their neighbors cutting all the lights and power in their homes so as not to attract attention of roving street mobs – locked and loaded with whatever hardware they had ready to shoot the first 5…6…7 intruders – knowing 25 more might behind them.

    Most all our elected officials… guys? Where is the leadership? From POTUS down to Senators to Reps to Governors. Trump throws out a limp-dick “FAKE NEWS” tweet last night in the middle of this? Really? Mayor Kenney finger wagging WHILE LOOTERS WERE DESTROYING ENTIRE RETAIL DISTRICTS. Politicians out for photo ops instead of calming boiling oceans?

    We need leadership NOW. It ain’t Trump and sure as shit isn’t Joe Biden. We need someone with spine, balls (well – if female then figurative balls), a strong voice of morality and conviction. Feels like we’re one more event from major upheaval (stay away murder hornets). We cannot be our own worst enemy.

    • Pretty hard watching this Country becoming unglued like this. The scale of protests had me nervous – the devolving into violence and looting was disgusting and angering to watch. Yes sir…….very disgusting.

      • Mathius says:

        the devolving into violence and looting was disgusting and angering to watch.

        My wife is conservative / Republican. My mother-in-law is pretty a-political (though anti-Trump). My father-in-law was rabidly pro-Trump and has come around to “I don’t like him, but I don’t see a better option.”

        We were discussing this the other day and reached a rare moment of consensus.

        And, I think, it’s best summed up as follows:

        I get the flippancy of the meme, but four of us from four different political angles pretty much hit on the same takeaway… every time the black community tries to gripe about their situation, about police violence, about systemic issues in this country, they get shut down and nothing changes… if we were on the receiving end and peaceful protest after peaceful protest failed… and then, one after the other, get (A) vigilantes chase down a runner and murder him, then only get arrested after weeks following video and huge pressure (B) a woman makes a bogus call to 911 accusing a man of threatening her and then (C) police officers straight up murder a subdued suspect…. sure, you can debate the finer points of the whole thing, nuances here and there… but shit… I can’t tell you that I wouldn’t be out there.

        Frankly, the thing that surprises me most in all of this is NOT that they’re rioting. It’s that they haven’t gotten organized. Were I on the receiving end of this, I’d have be running resistance cells. I would be wielding organized, disciplined, strategic violence. No looting in Mathius’ militia, no rioting, no molotovs. We’re gonna burn the whole fucker down and we can try again from the ashes.

        Put yourself in their shoes. Marches don’t work. Taking a knee is derided. Begging doesn’t work. Voting doesn’t work. Hell, everyone says “don’t resist and you’ll be fine, then proof emerges that you can be literally unconscious and they’ll still murder you in cold blood. If rednecks were on the receiving end of this, tell me you wouldn’t be out there running an insurgency?

        Honestly, right about now… I would be pretty surprised if there aren’t some groups forming right now that make the Black Panthers look like pussycats. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them hit back – hard – in the next few months.

        • What do you think the solution is to these types of events? What response do you think would satisfy the people protesting? Maybe something needs to be done, but what?

          • Mathius says:

            Hi Jennie!

            What do you think the solution is to these types of events?

            I have no idea whatsoever.

            All I can tell you is that there are problems.. big problems.. and the increased prevalence of phones and social media is bringing things out of the woodwork which used to be a lot easier to hide/bury/deny. This isn’t going away.

            What response do you think would satisfy the people protesting?

            Honestly, I have no idea. The cop getting charged with (3rd degree) murder is a good start, but if that doesn’t end up with a conviction, the Rodney King riots are going to look like a 4th of July picnic.

            I try to put myself in their shoes… what makes me feel like the tide is going out rather than coming in… I’d say a black President… but, well, that didn’t do it… I don’t see how this de-escalates.

            Oh, THIS riot will die down, but the next thing will set off worse riots and worse riots and they’ll get bigger and closer together until the powder keg really goes off. Don’t forget that, at some point, counter-riots are inevitable.. then we have a real self-reinforcing-cycle of escalating violence.

            If I were POTUS, if I were anyone in a position of authority, I’d try to find a leader on the other side and sue for peace. But right now the rioters seem leaderless.. how do you establish peace with an angry mob? So, maybe the first step is to encourage the rioters / protesters to find a person who can lead them.

            MLK I can talk to, I can debate, and we can work out our differences. Hell even Malcolm X. Frankly, anyone, you can work with them and try to find a path forward. But a mob? How do you negotiate with a mob? With just blind undirected rage and fear? I don’t think it can be done.

            Maybe something needs to be done, but what?

            No idea.

            But if it gets much worse, domestic terrorism – REAL domestic terrorism – is in our near future.

            I’m not talking about “antifa” – I’m talking about bombings of police stations, assassinations, the lynching of white people accused of racism (eg, reverse of KKK).

            Someone better figure out how to de-escalate this quick. And I’m pretty sure Trump is not the “de-escalation type.” I have never seen him de-escalate anything – his ONLY m-o seems to be to go on the attack. And his designation of Antifa (probably illegal) as a terrorist organization is not how you reach a peaceful settlement with 13%+ of our population. That’s an escalation, not working toward a peaceful middle ground.


            All that said, we do have to consider that all this is happening against the backdrop of COVID and a systemic trend of automation and offshoring which irrevocably makes low-wage jobs even low-er wage and harder to come by. I would be willing to bet that most of this unrest would go away if the African American community felt economically secure.. just sayin… not that I know how to make that happen either.

            I’ll go out on a limb here and say that these riots, to put it in the words of the band Sublime:

            Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here
            It’s getting harder and harder and harder each and every year
            They said it was for the black man,
            They said it was for the Mexican
            And not for the white man
            But if you look at the streets
            It wasn’t about Rodney King
            It’s bout this fucked up situation and these fucked up police
            It’s about coming up
            And staying on top

        • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

          For openers, WHY should the majority population fear the 12% (and falling) black population? Ask the WHY question. You MUST ask the WHY question and you must answer it. And you MUST NOT try and bullshit your way out of it. I do not particularly care if the black people in question are in Texas or in Maine, Minnesota or Mississippi. WHY are they feared to the point where it is assumed they must always be up to no good?

          By the way you left out last week’s mother of the year in Florida who drowned her 12 year old Autistic son and the called the cops saying he’s been kidnapped from her car by two “black” men. Guess she remembered that ditz in South Carolina a few years back who said her car was carjacked and her two boys later found dead in the submerged car were taken by “two black men”.

          Today, Rush Limbaugh played a segment where he went on a morning black radio show, the one where Biden fumbled so badly. When he asked the three hosts what would it take to end white supremacy or white privilege (which they used interchangeably) , they could not answer. They danced around, changed the subject or just went back to the charge but there were no takers for providing a solution.

          And, I have three nasty police incidents in my white privileged background. Asshole cops are equal opportunity assholes in my opinion. The toughest cop I ever knew on young blacks was a black officer named Gilmore who was ten years older than the kids he was hassling. His attitude was, if I could come out of one of these neighborhoods and do the right thing, so should they be able to do so.

          • Mathius says:

            For openers, WHY should the majority population fear the 12% (and falling) black population? Ask the WHY question.

            Because 12% of the population being pissed off and scared is dangerous.

            This really isn’t a hard question. There are a LOT of them. And people are dangerous in the best of times.

            If 12% decided they’ve finally had enough of our shit, us whities, that is, then we’re going to have a lot of death on our hands.

            WHY are they feared to the point where it is assumed they must always be up to no good?

            Ahhhhhhhhh…. I see your question..

            If I take your meaning, you’re asking something along the lines of: “why does a cop automatically feel concern during a traffic stop of a black person that he wouldn’t necessarily feel with a white person?” Or “why does a given white woman clutch her purse when a black person walks by but not when a white person walks by?”

            Put another way: “is there a CAUSE for the stereotypes.. a kernel of truth, perhaps?”

            To answer that, I would have to say I don’t… think… so.

            I know that, biologically, different people ARE different.

            Asians ACTUALLY are better at math on average.

            Ashkenazi Jews ARE, on average, about one standard deviation smarter than non-Ashkenzim.

            Black people have higher blood pressure than white people.

            They also spent hundreds of years in this country as slaves where the ‘masters’ could kill anyone they didn’t like, and could choose who to ‘breed’ with whom. Though I’m no geneticist, I would be shocked to find that this didn’t produce SOME measurable change to the gene pool. (though I would intrinsically imagine it to be toward docility and increased physical strength and endurance, not toward violence and rebelliousness as those are the people who I imagine would have been most likely to be murdered out of the gene pool.)

            So, is it so crazy to imagine that some biological difference exists within our populations such that black people are ACTUALLY more prone to criminality? I’d love to call this racist claptrap, but honestly, I just can’t answer it. I SUSPECT that it’s racist claptrap. But I don’t KNOW that.

            What I WILL say is that, on average, black people are poorer than white people. And poor people are generally more prone to violence, criminality, and whatnot. They are harder policed, they are given harsher sentences, the males go to prison at a higher rate and stay there longer, their children are raised fatherless more often, get poor family values as a consequence, get less education, and ultimately grow up poor themselves, perpetuating the cycle.

            So, I would ask this: where does that circle start? And how do you break it? And how much of that circle is about “who” is in the circle and how much is about the circle itself?

            There have been TONS of studies and experiments here along the lines of the Stanford Experiment. I can’t say FOR SURE that there’s nothing intrinsic to “being black” that justifies the stereotypes.. but I would be willing to bet that it’s absolutely drawved,/i> by the effects of systemic poverty and the way society views and treats them.

            I remember a study where they sent out a large number of resumes that were otherwise identical, only half had stereotypically “black names” and the other were generic/white. The black names got callbacks at a much lower rate. So, then the question is: did they get that because businesses thought they were inferior employees? Or does the fact that they’re less likely to get hired make them more likely to be poor which makes them less likely to get an education and round and round she goes?

            Chicken… egg…

            By the way you left out last week’s mother of the year in Florida who drowned her 12 year old Autistic son and the called the cops saying he’s been kidnapped from her car by two “black” men.

            Must have missed that one… but the mere fact that it wasn’t headline news should be telling…

            Guess she remembered that ditz in South Carolina a few years back who said her car was carjacked and her two boys later found dead in the submerged car were taken by “two black men”.

            Missed that one, too… again, the fact that these aren’t enormous stories is telling.

            More interesting is the IMPLIED narrative… both women knew that they should blame black men. Just like the woman in the part with the dog.. she knew to make a point of “African American man is threatening me” because all three of them intuitively understood the nature of the relationship between the black community and the police… they understood that in a generic interaction with the police, the black man is presumed guilty and dangerous.. they intuitively understood that and weaponized that racism to their own benefit.

            I’d be willing to bet that, wheras I had to think that through, most black people in this country instinctively understood it. Where I hear “we’ll get an authority here to sort this out,” they hear “don’t mess with me. I’m white and you’re not. I’m calling for someone who is on my side by default and who might shoot or arrest you at the slighting provocation.” Her call to the police was an escalation designed to make the situation more dangerous for him.

            They danced around, changed the subject or just went back to the charge but there were no takers for providing a solution.

            What solution is there?

            You want my solution?


            LOOOOOTTTTSSSS of education.

            With a HEAVY focus on debate, logic, reasoning, logical fallacies, and the scientific method.

            And then couple that with low-cost trade schools.

            Not just for black people, but everyone.

            And find a way to make “minimum wage” a “living wage” because it sure as hell isn’t enough right now. At least not everywhere.

            There is no way to break this cycle while black communities are poor. Poverty eats the humanity out of people. It makes people angry and desperate and scared. And angry, desperate, scared people sometimes do angry, desperate, and scared things.

            His attitude was, if I could come out of one of these neighborhoods and do the right thing, so should they be able to do so.

            God, I hate this attitude.

            “My father beat me and I came out alright, so I should beat my kids!” What a moronic view.


            • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

              Very good, I’m glad you went back and “got” the point. Now being older than dirt I can tell you some why’s.

              When 12 percent of the population commits over 40 percent of the crimes and a similar percent of murders, you have a perception problem. The key is research. WHEN did this fear thing start? I’m not talking of the “Mandingo” thing in the South where “you gotta fear dem bucks causen they want your wimmin,” Shit, on today’s modern TV commercials they DO have your wimmin and everybody is loving it.

              Now back in the day, raised a short 15 blocks North of Harlem, there was no particular fear of going into that neighborhood. Long before i was born my Dad and Mom routinely went to Harlem at night by subway and walked home to save the carfare. He’ talk about the Savoy Ballroom on 142nd and Lenox where blacks and whites mingled freely unlike the Cotton Club which had an all black staff and all white clientele. No problems. There were riots in ’43 and again I think in ’64. Both instances were caused by teh police murdering people and successfully covering it up.

              So, the answer to the why is WHAT CHANGED? That is the question. What caused the illegitimacy rate to go from 17 to 71 percent in less than half a century? What effect on the general population does not having a father in the home have? How did crime rates jump through the roof despite people being just as poor as they were 30 or 40 years earlier? Think on those questions and not only will the answers come to you but the solutions too.

              Remember, Education only works if you want it. Trade school in preparation for a career is a great answer if there is someone out there in your community who can serve as a role model or better yet a mentor. I still bitch over the fact that why was I, this white MoFo the guy teaching young black men in Harlem about THEIR history? How the fuck did THAT happen?

              If you have time for some old fiction, 1973 to be exact which will take you into the period and the police in Harlem, this is a good read. The author knew a thing or two about cops, racism, prejudice and it is good to have that history to understand how we got to where we are.


        • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

          Antifa is just the most recent incarnation of the wall Street bombers of 1920. Watched the campus cops tell a lady antifa type to put down her protest sign or take it off the broomstick since no sticks were allowed. She gave them a hassle, they threatened her with arrest and she finally threw it down. It hit with a Clank! It was a METAL pipe. Ya think that was because she couldn’t find wood?

  30. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Start reading up on late 19th and early 20th century anarchists, the apologists for them and what history finally said about them. At the time we were told about “spontaneous” outbreaks but later on, 20, 30 years when the historians started sorting it all out and connecting the dots, turned out that while the vast MAJORITY of rioters were unconnected to any particular movement, the guys handing out the bricks and bottles were.

    That is WHY Teddy was such a key figure for that time. His “Square Deal” and rhetoric placing working and moneyed interests on an equal playing field were an attempt to head off incipient chaos like that overtaking Europe.

    It came back post WW 1, the Red Scare, but it was taken care of by the Draconian laws and enforcement begun by Wilson during the war rather than by fairness or common sense.

    Remember teh phrase….”The past is prologue”? Lest we

  31. SCOTUS just ruled that states can ignore freedom of religion in favor of the pandemic lock down. If one 1st amendment right can be abridged, then logic dictates that the other rights, speech, press, and assembly can also be abridged. The slide into tyranny is being waxed.

  32. I have a question. At what point are the protesters going to be expected to stop protesting. Eventually, they will be blamed for the continuing rioting? The man has been arrested and charged, at this he point.

  33. Update from Texas………Just got off a conference call where the National Guard is being activated just in case…the whole guard…all 22,000 of us…………the subject of the phone call was martial law in the event a riot gets out of hand and a mayor or police force does nothing,

    We made plans for running a city government in the event of a total loss of control to keep the lights burning and the water flowing and police efforts working.

    Contingency plans have been made and relayed to the various mayors…………………

    Now, I used the term martial law……that term was not even discussed. But…someone tell me, that if the military moves in and forces the mayor and council out of office and takes over the operations of logistics and policing efforts…….what is it?

    • Not so sure removing an inept govt is Martial law, but if you then seriously restrict the Rights of the people, then you have something.

      Let me guess, but your talking about some weak Crat leadership being removed, yes?

  34. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Well, assuming that there is no giant spike in new covis 19 cases because of the lack of “social distancing” and that the virus has mutated into a less severe or possibly less contagious form, I guess the one benefit of our riots has been putting the Frigging “shut down” to rest.

    Anybody want to buy 150,000 ventilators with a five year warranty cheap?

  35. I wonder if anyone on here agrees with me…….when I see people standing around taking pictures with a cell phone of atrocities, such as burning things or beating someone up, does it not disgust you that the first thing you do is pull out a cell phone and not step in? Anyone?

    • Yes, just another part of the problem. It was nice to finally see some decent people step up to stop looters. I saw two places, Philly and I think NYC somewhere. Gave me some hope that there are a few good people still out there.

      I still say just shoot the rioters. Or at least crack some skulls and put the pictures on billboards for these idiots to see.

    • Mathius says:

      Yes…. within reason.

      Charging in at the cops who were killing Floyd would essentially have been suicide. Even if they’d saved him, they, themselves, could have been shot – and the cops certainly would have been legally safe doing so. Even failing to get shot, you basically 100% guarantee yourself prison time and financial ruination.

      It’s tough to ask a person to lay down their own life for another. “What would you do” is a great theoretical exercise, but it’s a tough thing in real life.

      Would I? Honestly, I doubt it. I’m not likely to get myself shot, to leave my children fatherless to inject myself into a police matter. I know – know – that I’d be screaming at them from a safe distance because I’ve done it*. But actually do something?

      I’d like to think I would do something more proactive.. but I doubt it.

      But, if I can’t stop them, well, at least I can film it and try to hold people accountable.

      (Besides, it’s much more my style to pick and choose my battles. If I’m going to do something about systemic racism and police brutality, it’s going to be more tactical than just charging into a bunch of cops on impulse.)


      *Several years back, I saw a white woman in a Mercedes rear end a black man in a POS car. He was stopped and she didn’t hit him that hard, but did mess up his bumper. He got out to check the damage, then tried (very civilly) to talk to her. She rolled her window down a crack and started screaming at him to get away from her car. Panicked. She called the cops and the cops showed up and started hassling the guy. I couldn’t believe it. He hadn’t done anything wrong, but they were patting him down and breathalyzing him and questioning him while she sat safely in her car and was left alone. She hit him and he was being treated like a criminal. I – and a few others – tried talking to the cops, then yelling a bit.. but when they threatened to arrest us… well… we all just backed off. I guess that makes us cowards.

      I’d like to think I’d do better if the guy was being murdered in front of me. I’d like to think that… but honestly… who knows?

      • Sorry, I was not specific. I am talking about the rioters themselves or the beatings from rioters on innocent civilians….people do not step in to help…they just whip out their phones and film a crime in progress. This……I find disgusting.

        BF and I had this discussion once. I will try to stop something from happening. A mugging, a theft, a rape……..if I saw it but that is me. I find it abhorrent that people whip out cell phones and film it…..when, as a group, they could have stopped a crime. BF says, I have my family to think about.

        Sort of like the movie, The Patriot.

        • Mathius says:

          I have seen a number of videos of people trying to stop the looting and destruction.

          Saw one video of this tiny white girl, couldn’t be older than 20, put herself between storefront and a huge black man with a crowbar… couldn’t hear what she was saying, but the gist was clear enough… he grabbed her wrist and flung her out of the way and she just threw herself back in front of him… ultimately, he backed down. I probably just walked to the next store to try again.

          The comments were great, but my favorite: “that girl has bigger balls than everyone else in this video.”

          I have my family to think about.

          It’s true.

          He does.

          I do.

          Does that make us cowards?

          • Does that make us cowards?

            No, it does not. But it does give you pause. You have not been faced with such a situation and I hope you never are….I look at it from society stand point. I cannot say..”It is not my problem, when it clearly is”….

            I wonder, if you witnessed something like that, what you would think of later. I think I know you well enough to surmise…….as an after thought……”I should have done something.”

            It was like being in combat the first time…..I always questioned whether or not I could do it….you never know until you are faced with it. Some people run and some people stay….some people freeze. I remember it well…when the first shot was fired and the battle started. training took over. I reacted. I did not think…I just did it. Only after the battle was over, did I recollect what happened…..when the adrenaline subsided only then did I understand what I went through and saw my first combat deaths that I had caused or been part of….to deal with the fact that I had to kill.

            So, you never know what would happen. I do not think you would run. I seriously do not think so.

  36. Sir Mathius………ok……I have watched the entire tape and agree with that there appears to be no editing. I saw two things that I would like some answers on. I saw where the reporter said to “just tell us where we are supposed to go and we will go there”….this would have solved the problem.

    The other thing that I noticed, was that the CNN crew were standing in front of the police line and not behind it. If I were the commander, I would not have allowed them to stand in front of the line and film back towards the line giving intelligence to whomever might be watching the news broadcast. So, why were they there in THAT spot and not behind…they were in the firing zone, so to speak. They did not belong there. So, the question is, did they suddenly show up in front of the line. I do not think I am willing to believe that they were told to be in that spot. If they were told to be there, then someone R E A L L Y screwed up.

    I gleaned a butt load of intelligence from watching this. I counted the police officers that were there, the types of weapons that they carried, the type of armament they were wearing and the type of vehicle support. That would have pissed me off as a commander. This could have led to further confrontation with rioters, tactically speaking.

    As to their first amendment rights………… media do not and should not have carte blanche privileges. Just because they were media does not give them special rights. What was troubling to me was the cavalier attitude of the news crew that they were media so they had a right to be there. Obviously, they did not. I do not care if it was Fox News or God Almighty…..they were in front of a police line and not behind it. I have been heavily involved with the news media on the border and they constantly push the envelope…..CONSTANTLY and they throw around press credentials as if they have privilege….they do not. I have literally ordered a tank to push a CBS news truck 400 yards down a road when they refused to move…and I did not let them pull antennas down or anything….just pushed them out of the way. They were showed where to go and set up if they wanted but since they were already set up and broadcasting and recording things we did not want them to see, they refused to move… I moved them.

    In this instance, the CNN news crew asked them to tell them where to go (other than to hell) and the problem could have been solved by telling them…”set up behind police lines”…it would have been over at that point. The police could have defused the situation immediately by simply saying….set up behind the police line, thank you very much. Why they did not is beyond me.

    Now, having been in this situation before, I do not see a violation of the 1st amendment nor any amendment. Personally, I think that the news crew knew that they were in front of police lines. They took their chances….however, I think the police were wrong to arrest when a simple “move over there” would have solved the problem. Having dealt with news crews on a fairly consistent basis, they actually know where to stand and what to do but they do push the envelope, as I said. Nothing wrong with that…we know that they are going to do it, so we plan for that. And, just so you know, I have had the problem with conservative crews as well as liberal crews. It does not matter. Newspaper reporters are even worse than camera crews. But, we do get tired of the prima donna attitude….

    Help any?

    • Probably 100 plus press out there, only one gets arrested. Yea, sure, if you believe that I guess.

      • Mathius says:

        What are you insinuating?

        • Simple really. One of two things or both. The cops have Intel that CNN is aiding the rioters with their reports. There are many undercover cops embedded in these groups, don’t for one minute think that arrests are not coming when this is over. More on that later.
          2. They were asked to leave the area long before the video started and ignored the order. I wouldnt put it passed CNN to add to the hatred of the cops, cuz they like that narrative, have for years and years.

          • Mathius says:

            Translated: I reject the obvious reality I see with my own eyes in favor of a convoluted and evidence-free imagined scenario under which CNN is a criminal organization and their reporters secret operatives are rightfully arrested.

            • No, I just don’t believe anything from CNN. Lawyers are more honest then them.

    • Mathius says:

      Help any?

      Lotsa help!

      So, as the official long-winded one in these parts now that BF has gone off to his bunker… allow me to try to summarize…

      A) The position or the reporters / camera gave away a lot of (potentially) dangerous intel to the rioters.

      B) The police, rather than behaving professionally and de-escalating by simply telling them where to move, chose to arrest them without (good) cause.

      Did I get that about right?

      If so, one this:

      The Colonel says: Now, having been in this situation before, I do not see a violation of the 1st amendment nor any amendment.

      Having been in this situation, can you please explain to this layman a bit about the abrogation of (A) the right to peaceable assemble and (B) the right of the free press in light of this situation?

      I’d love a primer on how this actually works.


      Actually, two things:

      Even without infringing on their rights – assume no 1A protections – was it not “wrong” or, dare I say, “unamerican” to arrest reporters in this fashion when it would have been so easy to simply move them?

      To me, it was, honestly, SHOCKING. And, frankly, terrifying. It felt like “that can’t happen here” except that it did.

      It felt to me how I imagine watching HUAC hearings must have felt: damnit, I don’t care if that’s “legal,” it’s just.. unamerican! (oh, the irony!)

      • A) Tactically speaking…yes.
        B) Correct

        Having been in this situation, can you please explain to this layman a bit about the abrogation of (A) the right to peaceable assemble and (B) the right of the free press in light of this situation? What a great…GREAT..question. This is subjective given the situation. There is no litmus test nor algorithm that governs this. Commanders are faced with this situation all the time. We are used to it. When you arrive on a scene or a position, you evaluate the situation and make a decision. Sort of like gawkers at a nudist resort or a traffic accident. Move along folks, you have seen naked bodies before or move along folks, this is an accident scene and emergency will be arriving. Both of those seemingly innocent, given the situation, but still an abrogation of rights. Do you have a right to gawk at the hot body over there? Certainly, but does the park police have a right to tell you to move along…yes. In a traffic accident, do you have a right to be bystanders and look at the teeth, hair, and eyeballs laying around? Or do the police tell you to move along because they have assessed that the situation is too fluid to have by-standers or, worse, congregating can cause further accidents.

        Even the right to assemble as a protest march is perfectly ok…but when a rebel rouser tries to incite the crowd…..they say break it up and go home. It is a subjective choice on the scene. They may have abrogated your right but peaceful assembly ends where violence or potential violence occurs. Hate speech at a peace rally for instance.

        The right of a free press only pertains to the freedom to write and not be government owned. As I said before, it is not a credit card to be used when it wants. It does not grant the press a “right” to be where they are not wanted. I use as an example, my own experience on the border. I recognize that the press can report on things but I also know that being the media is not sacrosanct. They are not “entitled” to know the story or any story. They are not “entitled” to take pictures of classified or even unclassified data. It is a commanders prerogative to keep the media out of things if they want to keep them out. I did not want the CBS crew anywhere near my operation. They could get all the information they wanted from the publications officer. If there is a designated area for the media, then that is where they belong.

        The media can try to bait you into stupid statements….like….”why can’t we go? Is there something out there that you do not want us to see?” To which I answer…no comment. So, as a commander, it is my prerogative to embed media or not. They get in the way. I find them troublesome. So, yes, I do not let them go but, no, I do not take away their right to report. But, as I said, freedom of the press does not mean access.

        And to your last question……yes, I think it was wrong to arrest the media in this particular circumstance based on what I saw. Is it unamerican? No, it is not. I get where you are coming from but I do not see this incident being an abrogation of rights. They were released and they went right on reporting.

        • I might add…..why were they released? Because cooler heads prevailed. If it were a true abrogation of rights…they would still be in jail.

          • Mathius says:

            I might add…..why were they released? Because cooler heads prevailed.

            Cooler head… yes.. that’s one possibility… might I propose another?

            why were they released?

            Because it was filmed live on-air and got plastered over the entire internet and social media with 45 seconds, following which, the president of CNN Global was on the phone with the Governor, who promptly shat himself due to the political ramifications. The governor, even before changing his pants, turned around and tried to do damage control by immediately ordering them released and apologizing profusely and taking ownership / responsibility (which I applaud!). Whereupon the reporters were released with about an hour’s turnaround time.

      • Meh, it was CNN, who cares? Arrest every last one of them for all I care. 😉

  37. Mathius says:

    So… about that weak leadership.. it’s been ~3 1/2 years of Trump…. why hasn’t he fixed everything?

    • Trump’s been fighting these jerks for 3 1/2 years just to do his job. Frankly, until people stop voting Democrat, the problems of today will continue.

  38. Heads up! I’ve seen this several times today.

    • Mathius says:

      Boy, that sure looks like it was either written by (A) a 14 year-old boy in his mom’s basement chugging Mountain Dew and imagining himself as the leader of a great revolution, or (B) a Russian bot, or (C) someone deliberately trying to make Antifa look bad.

      Then again, people sometimes just actually, really, honestly, ARE this stupid… what do I know?

      Either way, the account’s suspended, so I can’t go have a look for myself.

  39. Very interesting scenario taking place in a suburb of Dallas called Frisco……a predominately white upper middle class and wealthy area. A protest march was scheduled for this evening and mysteriously, 6 pallets of bricks appeared along the protest route.

    I have a close personal friend who lives in Frisco saying……..let them come. We shall see what happens.

    • Well, here is what happened…………….nothing. The march took place in Frisco, the police picked up 4 skids of bricks, traced the company that delivered them, got the payment information from the company, and then arrested the people that bought the bricks. The march went through the town and lasted 30 minutes and everyone was home by the curfew.

      Fort Worth….very peaceful march, no incidents…there were a few that blocked a bridge, they were arrested, held for about three hours, issued $1500 tickets for various things and released after the march was over and the curfew had started.

      It was a little different in Arlington. The mobs were organized into caravans with specific targets. Jewelry stores, Walmarts, a Nike store……..the Arlington police used the military tracking devices provided by the National Guard on cell phones and tracked them and listened in on the conversations to determine the next store to be vandalized. They were intercepted and arrested. No fires. When they determined a target, these caravans went into the parking lot of a Walmart, left their engines running, the police blocked off all access to the parking lots and let the looters run out with their booty…..and….voila…..caught them with the goods in their hands.

      The National Guard was used in Dallas to curb a potential threat….no injuries. I think these organized groups are scratching their heads trying to figure out how they were intercepted.

      Most business’ in affected areas where the looting is likely to take place are protecting themselves with their own weapons. The police drive by and inform them of potential threats. Pretty cool.

      I call this proactive although some people are now upset that the cell phones are being tracked.

    • Well, here is what happened…………….nothing. The march took place in Frisco, the police picked up 4 skids of bricks, traced the company that delivered them, got the payment information from the company, and then arrested the people that bought the bricks. The march went through the town and lasted 30 minutes and everyone was home by the curfew.

      Fort Worth….very peaceful march, no incidents…there were a few that blocked a bridge, they were arrested, held for about three hours, issued $1500 tickets for various things and released after the march was over and the curfew had started.

      It was a little different in Arlington. The mobs were organized into caravans with specific targets. Jewelry stores, Walmarts, a Nike store……..the Arlington police used the military tracking devices provided by the National Guard on cell phones and tracked them and listened in on the conversations to determine the next store to be vandalized. They were intercepted and arrested. No fires. When they determined a target, these caravans went into the parking lot of a Walmart, left their engines running, the police blocked off all access to the parking lots and let the looters run out with their booty…..and….voila…..caught them with the goods in their hands.

      The National Guard was used in Dallas to curb a potential threat….no injuries. I think these organized groups are scratching their heads trying to figure out how they were intercepted.

      Most business’ in affected areas where the looting is likely to take place are protecting themselves with their own weapons. The police drive by and inform them of potential threats. Pretty cool.

      I call this proactive although some people are now upset that the cell phones are being tracked.

  40. Idea:

    On a county vote, each county will decide if police are needed. If NO is the vote, no cops for 6 months, at which time a new vote will happen. One special rule. If you live in a county with no police and go to another county with police and get caught breaking the law, ANY law, you get the death penalty within two days of conviction.

  41. I remember when white people rioted because of this death…oh, wait they didn’t.

    It’s obvious there are bad apples in the police departments. Things need to change. But why is there outrage only when it’s a black person?

    • Just A Citizen says:

      50 YEARS of narrative created by militants. That is why.

      Every Black Man ever interviewed has claimed they have all been harassed by the Cops. Think about the Math itself……….. I am calling BS on that claim.

      Could it also be that thanks to WELFARE the human mind has atrophied as they are no longer required to eek out a living. Just sit still, get stoned, pick up a check. So now they have no idea how to create positive change, they only know how to throw a tantrum.

      • Yes, agreed. 50+ years of narrative and now, it is falling on deaf ears. the chicken little syndrome has set in…..every time I hear the racists thing now, I just roll my eyes.

        So now they have no idea how to create positive change, they only know how to throw a tantrum. and get their free goods through looting…..HOWEVER, I did see an awful lot of white kids taking part in the looting and the beatings and the violence and wearing their little masks trying to look like bandits. So, this isn’t just a racial thing…it is mob violence and a free for all.

        Interesting fact…..I went back through several videos…..probably 10 – 15 and specifically looked for Asians…..wonder why I did not see any?

      • Ray Hawkins says:

        JAC – glad I didn’t read that and draw conclusion that there is a thinly veiled equiv you’re making of “Every Black Man….”, “Welfare”, “gets stoned”, “sit still (lazy)”, “no clue how to create positive change”. IOW – no clue what point you’re trying to make.

        • Just A Citizen says:


          I am glad you didn’t jump to false conclusions. I don’t very often paint with a broad brush.

          The question was regarding those who jump to rioting and howling at the drop of a hat I think the meaning of my comment is quite clear in that context.

          The welfare angle is something I and others have been discussing regarding the general lack of individual responsibility we see in the country. Science shows that if one does not exercise their brains they become stupified after a while. If you look at the downstream impacts of the Welfare State since the 60’s you see a declining ability of more and more people to care for themselves. To solve their plight on their own. You see an increasing trend for them to simple sit in place and blame others for their situation and then whenever there is a catalyst they take to the streets. So I am wondering if there is a connection.

          The less people have to use their brains to scramble for survival, to eek out a living and build a productive life, the less active their minds become. The more they are susceptible to being manipulated and as their ego rots, the more angry they become.

          • Mathius says:

            Being intellectually lazy is little different than being classically lazy. It’s a skill, a muscle, and you use it or lose it. Build up a bad habit of laziness and you’re going to have negative consequences in your life. If a community builds up such a habit the consequences are compounded.


            One MIGHT argue that being taught how to think (eg logic, debate, proof-construction, logical fallacies, scientific method, evidence evaluation, etc) is an absolutely vital skillset which is nearly completely overlooked in education. One MIGHT argue that 99% of the population doesn’t have to read Shakespeare and would be better served with a class where they drilled into your skull the concepts of refined reasoning.

            But, then again, being poorly educated leads to bad life choices, too.


            Secondly, I would argue that having a father in ones life is enormously valuable. The studies are plentiful and all but irrefutable. Kids without fathers are massively more prone to criminality and antisocial behavior. They do worse in school, are more violent, are more likely to commit crimes, and less likely to succeed economically.

            And then we have to look at the black community and note two factors: (1) black men are disproportionately arrested, charged, convicted, and receive harsher sentences. This breaks up black families leading to the aforementioned fatherless children who repeat the cycle. (2) structural wellfare, in many contexts, disfavors the two-parent household. Both because the father may not be as “needed” to support the family and because, in certain cases, an actual economic incentive may exist that favors being separate households.

            People whine incessantly about the decline of marriage, but I don’t really care about that. “Marriage” is just a legal and/or religious construct. It’s not really that important. But the father sticking around in a committed two-parent relationship to jointly provide and care for and raise their children is absolutely essential. And anything that gets in the way of that, anything that disincentivizes that, is detrimental to the whole of society.


            It sounds like your argument boils down to: we’ve been coddling “them” for so long they’ve forgotten how to be self-sufficient. And, honestly, I believe there’s some truth in this. But I’d argue it’s vastly overshadowed by the two factors I’ve mentioned above – fatherlessness and poor education.

            • Mathius says:

              ::pinging JAC for a response::

              • Just A Citizen says:


                Sorry for the delay, was plowing and planting today.

                I only disagree with the magnitude to which arrests contribute to fatherless families. I have heard this before but it begs several questions. How many are actually fathers who are doing the right thing and if they are doing the right thing then why are they getting arrested.

                I am also a little suspicious of the claim about disproportionate sentencing. This became a problem during the Cocaine crackdown, primarily Coke vs. Crack. And once again I remind you that the Black Community was crying out to have these people removed from their villages, only later was it used to claim racism was behind the crackdown….. clever with that one don’t ya think.

                I would usually agree with your rankings but I am becoming less certain. This welfare affect on our mental state may have a greater role than we have ever considered.

            • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

              You are going to have to show me that the illegitimacy rate is directly influenced by black men being incarcerated. Your entire premise fails on that.

              There is a glimmering of truth in some of what you say but much is an a priori argument. If 40 percent of the crime is committed by 12 percent of the population, is that because cops only seek out black criminals? Are crimes by blacks the only ones reported? The actual numbers tell quite a different story. When I worked with teh cops I talked about this quite a bit and their take was that the criminals who went to jail, the black and Hispanic ones often went only after multiple arrests. It would require an analysis of prior dealings with the law by arrestees to determine if blacks were actually more likely to get longer or harsher sentences for the same crimes. Having actually been involved in causing arrests to be made I can assure you that in NYC unless you were arrested for weight, the only time you would get a long sentence or any sentence at all was after MULTIPLE encounters with the law. City cops used to bust suburban kids all the time for possession but their take was we will NEVER see these people again whereas a street dealer from the hood would have 10 or 20 run ins.

              You start by saying how important a father is but the father does NOT stay in the picture.You can do the homework…twenty years back, when we got really tough on urban crime, Clinton and Guilliani time, there were stories of guys fathering a score of kids by different mothers. You could get street cred by banging multiple women. How involved do you think those jokers were with their kids? This is not “made up” There were actual news stories in papers like the NYT that reported on it as a sociological phenomena. But the media has no long term memory and no desire to do any research and unless YOU recognize that and do your own homework, you can be easily taken in.

              My eldest cuts the media some slack on this pointing out the difference between newsrooms and bureaus in the 1960’s and now. Old “print” journalism had something called city reporters and most old time TV guys like Huntley, Brinkley, Smith, Reasoner, Severaid, Cronkite came out of those papers and brought their training with them. Today everything is shared and there is nowhere near enough time or talent to do any depth. Speculation or “I think” has replaced facts or “history”.

  42. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    I am sure that those who have had some police or military riot control training are laughing their heads off at the bozos in the police these days. God, nobody has apparently read a “how to control a riot” manual since 1971.

    I am watching this LAPD line of overweight desk bound cops with 4 foot 11 inch females try and “move” a crowd. Nobody knows how to hold a line, nobody knows to interlock the shields and nobody knows what the baton is for other than to scratch your ass. Hope the guard is better. We never used it but I loved the practice and just looking at a line with bayonets sticking out of M-1’s was shall we say, formidable? Hut! Hut! Hut!

    • We used the guard last night in Dallas…..and it was text book. Moving the lines, forcing them into tight knit groups, and isolating the perps. No bayonets were needed. They had their Ar 15’s strapped to their backs but used only riot shields and batons. Did their 1/2 step march and just pushed forward and with each 1/2 step, you would hear a grunt or HUAH as they just kept coming. Only one person grabbed a riot shied and got his knuckles smashed with what we call a MP Baton-0002. Very handy device and collapsible. If a protester fell down, the line keeps moving and just steps over him and the second line picks them up, handcuffs them with zip ties and pushed him back to a third line.

      And as to your description of over weigh chair bound commandos……..the Guard has highly trained units and we stay trained. No females. ( Not to say that females are not worthy but most females lack the upper body strength to carry the 85 pounds of riot gear and body armor.

      By the way, each National Guard trooper is armed with an AR15, with collapsible stock, and a glock 40 or Beretta 9 mm. Problem solved.

      One last note, the Guard was not employed until it was plain that this particular march was going to get out of hand. The police were then the third line behind the guard when it started its move.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Huzzah! Found my 1964 Riots and Civil disturbances FM this morning. It includes the sections of US Code where the president may intervene WITHOUT a request from the governor. Essentially three reasons. People are being denied their civil rights by rioters, Federal property is endangered or, Local officials have demonstrated they are incapable of controlling rioters. All apply now that they are attacking post offices!

  43. One last interesting note….and this is my rub against the media. They interviewed several looters and put them on local TV. The looters all laughed about stealing Tv sets and one of the female looters made the comment that she did not understand why everybody gets upset and starts bashing heads because these business’ have insurance and can get everything rebuilt and replaced and it is our only way to get expensive TV’s like the rich folks.


  44. LOS ANGELES, CA—Religious people in Southern California have found a bold, creative solution for in-person meetings in spite of the continuing lockdown. This past weekend, several area churches attended church services disguised as righteously indignant rioters.

    “We already have the righteous indignation thing down,” said one church elder. “Now, we’ve simply added black balaclavas, hoodies, Guy Fawkes masks, and baseball bats! We found that when we do this, we can meet in large groups without much interference from the local authorities. It’s been a delightful experience.”

    Leaders from Spirit-River In The City Church in LA County are reporting a successful Sunday service after using this method. Churchgoers were given bricks and fake Molotov cocktails before they surrounded the church with menacing looks on their faces. Several deacons then smashed some church windows to make the riot look more realistic. Unfortunately, onlookers grew suspicious when the massive group of rioters broke out into a round of the smash-hit worship song “Reckless Life Engulfment.” Some of the attendees were forced to stage brawls in order to keep up appearances.

    According to sources, some churchgoers in the area are planning to continue wearing masks to church even after the lockdown has ended in order to hide their identities from Hollywood directors and producers.

  45. Ray Hawkins says:

    The optics – our TV reality star President staging his tone deaf nothing-but-white-guys choreographed photo op in front of the Episcopal Church by first gassing protesters in Lafayette Square to clear them away. I think I saw the Bible smoldering in Trump’s hands ready to erupt into flames. This is leadership? This is our greatest President?

    • It makes no difference what Trump does, he will be severely criticized anyhow.

      • Mathius says:

        That’s true.

        So is the conclusion that, since he’ll be criticized no matter what, he should just do whatever he wants consequence-free?

        • Why should there be consequences for walking over to the church? Man! Plenty more things to worry about than a walk to the church. Petty!

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      I guess they should have let it BURN! let us try really, really hard not to be so dumb.

  46. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Before anybody gets too bent out of shape over the President using his authority to send in military troops which, by the way, was done by both Kennedy and Eisenhower, it would be wise to remember the third point of the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States.

    “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of …

  47. Mathius says:

    Submitted for your consideration:



    Now, don’t get me wrong, this guy definitely appears to be resisting arrest. And I have no idea what happened before this video to cause this situation. So I make no judgements about the officers struggling to subdue him.

    But what I CAN see in this video is that, while the cops are wrestling with him, one officer comes over, places his baton on the ground in front of the man, then forces his hand onto it, and proceeds to promptly punch his hand to let it go.

    I’d love to see clearer footage, see what happened before and after, maybe get another angle. But we have what we have.

    I’ve seen the argument that the cop just happened to put his baton down in front of the guy and that, while reaching for the man’s hand to detain him, was overpowered and the man was able to grab the baton, whereupon the cop had to punch his hand repeatedly to make him lead go of the deadly weapon. I can… maybe… see how this is possible. I guess. But frankly, if that’s the case, the cop should be fired anyway for being an absolute idiot (seriously? Why not put it down behind you and out of reach?).

    I’m sorry, I just don’t buy that. I have eyes and, once again, I just cannot see this scenario as plausible. I do not believe that that is what is happening here. But maybe you guys will look at this differently.

    I’m trying to see how the events at the ~8 second mark could be anything other than that cop framing the man for possessing a weapon and using that as justification to beat him.

    Kindof like throwing a knife to a guy and then shouting “he’s got a knife” before shooting him in “self-defense.”

    (This was Philly 2 days ago)

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Amazing how you are conditioned to see with your eyes the same thing each time.

      What I see is a cop who places the baton on the ground to grab the guys wrist in order to bend his arm behind his back. As he applies pressure upwards the man reaches out and grabs the baton. The cop tries to get his hand off but the guy does not let go. A few punches to the back of the hand and he perp relents.

      Why do I see this and not your explanation? Because the angle of the arm when it suddenly moves to the baton. The cop is trying to lift up and the arm suddenly moves forward with force. How can you move anyone’s arm in that fashion when they are resisting your efforts to move their arm? You can’t.

      Another clue. The guy grabs the stick, wrapping his hand around it. Not something one would do if their hand had been “forced” to take it.

      This video and your interpretation is the kind of thing I used to see on Info Wars. Find a video that has just enough ambiguity to spin your own narrative and release it to the pre-conditioned masses showing the “evidence” your your narrative.

      • Mathius says:

        So you see the scenario I discounted.


        Hard for me to answer the “truth” of the situation.

        I’m not certain enough in the opinion that I’m going to riot over it.. but it does look much more likely my way to me, even considering what you say. CIVILIAN Mathius thinks he did it. JUROR Mathius would no convict him.

        Though I will say this much: if you are a cop and, while restraining a resisting person, have to put down your weapon, you’re a fucking moron who needs to be completely re-trained if you put it down right in front of the guy’s face and within reach.

        Would you at least agree to that much?


        Also, do these people not have tasers? Seems like a perfect situation to make the guy ride the lightning and avoid this whole wrestling match… but, again, what do I know? I’m not a cop.


        All that said, while I know you don’t agree with my interpretation, can you SEE how my version might have been the case?

        If so, can you give me a ballpark for how likely you view it? What’s your conviction that I’m right? 5%? 1%?

        I give my version 60% and your version 40%, just for perspective.

        • Your version is ridiculous.

        • I watched your video…..and all I saw was a dumb ass cop putting a weapon within arms reach of an aggressor.

          As a Colonel, I give your assessment a zero percent.
          As a Civilian, I give your position a 25/75 percent.

          BUT. I think you wanted to see this.

          • Mathius says:


            What accounts for the difference in your views as colonel and as civilian?

            To clarify my position, JUROR Mathius would give 0% conviction to either the cop for allegedly staging the weapon OR to the man for allegedly grabbing the weapon.

            But POLICE CHIEF Mathius would discipline the hell out of that officer for leaving his baton where the man could reach it, and would certainly do a deep review of the cop’s background to see if there is any troubling indication of past behavior of this kind. The guy is either a mouth-breathing-moron or a violent, criminal abuser of his position, and either way, that guy should probably not be out on riot duty. Desk duty until I’m satisfied. And I’m sending home a note to his mother.

            • test

              • OK…as a Colonel, I look at the details. Body position of both persons. To a trained eye, I see the stupidity of a cop that was not in a correct position for a take down or apprehension, adjusting his “grip” and in doing so letting an adversary attempt to get the upper hand, thus putting himself in a position to make things look like it was purposeful….

                My civilian alter ego understands that it could look like it was done on purpose ( I really do not see it that way) but I can understand where you would see that it was done to entice the guy. Now, do not have a heart attack here, but when you make a conclusion like you did, I immediately thought of G Man and his penchant for broad brushing “crats”. I think you have a distrust for police power ( I am not sure you are wrong ) and, therefore, all police are bad and looking for ways to bash heads.

                When I see the video of the cop that had his knee on the guys neck….I look at all the relevant body positions and facial reactions and things…I immediately saw a cop trying to subdue someone beyond what is necessary. The man should be in jail, throw away the key and let him be someone’s butt buddy for life. BUT….when I look at the two videos side by side, it is apples and oranges….I see a cop being stupid probably thinking that no one in his right mind will pick up a baton and when he did, his reaction was …Oh SHIT…..Like you, the man should be directing traffic somewhere…and not on a riot team.

                Now, please allow me this. We do not have a major problem of police brutality here, in Texas. We have some and we have people that have been hired because they were the only ones available. I fear now, with all the issues out there, good people will not want to be police. Just like good people, the one’s who should be politicians, do not want to subject themselves to the ridicule that is out there. Look what has happened to us…..the general populace does not trust politicians and the general population does not trust the police. Look at the positions that you and I have. I trust the police more than I trust the media, conservative or liberal. So, we have our bias and we both admit it…….( we both know that I am perfect and never wrong, however ).

              • Mathius says:

                the man should be directing traffic somewhere

                You really think he’s up to it?

                I have my doubts.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      In the good old days when I was with the Auxiliary Police in NYC, we used a wood baton. It had a leather lanyard attached which we wrapped around our wrist so it could not be taken away from us and used to beat us. We had no guns. It was a standard police baton. Swinging it was no where near as effective as jamming it into someones gut.

  48. Hell no I’m not taking a knee for your dumb ass. I gotta get out and mow some grass. Blow some steam off.

  49. Canine Weapon says:

  50. Trump to Liberal Mayors and Governors: Handle this or I will send in troops

    Liberal Mayors and Governors scream NO NO NO, you don’t have the authority.

    Liberals: Trump needs to do something and lead.

    Trump leads and shows Crats how to move protestors when not following directions. Liberals scream No No No, you can’t do that to peaceful protestors.

    I just shake my head at the utter nonsense from the Left as a whole. Pussies for leaders, hypocrits for followers.

  51. I also want to be clear, It’s not the Feds job to deal with this, it’s the State and locals responsibility, UNLESS they ask for assistance. This seems to be a nonpartisan viewpoint.
    What say SUFA?

  52. Something about NYC that is showing how Democrat laws are so damaging to the law abiding.

    All the arrests for vandalism and looting etc don’t mean squat because of the bail reform law. Arrested and released to do it all over again the next night. The problem isn’t getting taken off the streets, and so it will continue. Maybe when there is nothing left to govern over will Crats learn.

  53. Does no one know their history? How quickly we forget. Everyone is upset at Trump wanting to use the Insurrection Act which has been used by 12 Presidents before him. Twice by President Kennedy. How quickly everyone forgets how this act was used in favor of minorities to ensure that blacks were admitted to schools and colleges. It was used to force edicts.

    How quickly everyone forgets Executive Order 13528, which effectively guts the Posse Comitatus Act. ( The ACT that limits the use of American Military force upon civilians )This executive order greatly expands the power of the government to use Federal troops. EO 13528 further erodes the constitutional limits on Executive Branch power, and actually has little to do with catastrophic emergency response. It is however, the latest attempt to expand the National Security state and the Continuity of Government (COG) programs that are, and have been, illegally kept secret from Congress and the American people. Many members of Congress are not authorized to view information on COG plans, procedures, capabilities and facilities, as well as the classified annexes of National Security Presidential Directive 51 and Homeland Security Presidential Directive 20 (NSPD 51/HSPD 20). EO 13528 undermines the democratic rights of the American people.

    Oh…did I mention that EO 13528 was penned by President Obama?

    • Mathius says:

      Without opining on whether Trump is right or wrong to use the Insurrection Act – a matter on which I have not formed a solid opinion as yet – I would only say this…

      the Insurrection Act which has been used by 12 Presidents before him. Twice by President Kennedy.

      A) Situations differ, I’m sure, between and amongst those 12 times such that it’s probably not an apples-to-apples comparison between Trump’s proposed use and Kennedy’s. That’s not to say Kennedy was right and Trump wrong, but rather that they are not necessarily perfect comparisons.

      B) Even if they are / were perfect apples-to-apples comparisons, that does not necessarily mean that Trump is right. Just because “they” did it, does not necessarily mean that it’s right and that we should be ok with Trump doing it. If it IS wrong – and that is not a conclusion I am making – then, even if we failed to condemn Obama et al for it, that doesn’t make it wrong, per se, to criticize Trump for it (though, certainly, hypocritical if we willfully accepted past use and now only condemn it because the other team has the ball).

      Again, to be clear, I haven’t decided on this matter – there’s just too much I don’t know and I’ve spent the whole day on conference calls so research has been lacking – but I will say that this reasoning doesn’t appear sound.

      Maybe, what would be helpful, is if you explained it like I was recently kicked in the head by a mule…

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Little Rock with Eisenhower and Birmingham I believe with Kennedy. Both were civil unrest due to civil rights where the locals could not or would not act.

  54. Mathius says:

    Watched the video of Bush I’s response to the Rodney King riots in ’92 last night.

    Very interesting.

    Recommended viewing in light of recent events:

    • The kinder, gentler version of Trump’s speech last night.

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      In 1992 we had a different country. Rodney King was stoned out and got overeaten by the cops. While he was black, there was the presumption that the cops beat the crap out of him BECAUSE he was black. Personally, my opinion was that they would have beaten anyone they caught, who was in that condition but……I digress. The country is different, black people protested the Rodney King thing because they THOUGHT it was because King was black which is at least reasonable . As I’ve mentioned, half the people I see rioting now ARE NOT BLACK. Perhaps you think solidarity, I do not.

      Yesterday morning I woke up thinking, ah-ha. First occupy wall street, then the various Economic summits, then the anti-free speech marches and now, a brilliant target of opportunity for concerted nationwide action occurs.

      Anyone doubting “concerted” action is techno challenged. As the Colonel pointed out, their communications have been hacked. You would be a dummy to think these groups are not acting in concert. Hell, 100 years ago, before reliable phone communications they were.

  55. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    On Race….

    You cannot change the past. You cannot even change the present. What you CAN do is change the future. However, you cannot change the future by being stuck in the past. That goes for EVERYBODY, black or white.

    • I might add to this. You cannot change ethnicity. People are different. Races are different. Cultures are different. You can educate all you want but you cannot MAKE people respond a certain way. Hell, we kicked the crap out of England because we wanted to think for ourselves. We are a nation. We are a diverse nation but we are not the same. But we are Americans…we are the wretched refuse. We are the people no one wanted.

      And then there are the Texans…..the rest of you can catch up.

      ::::ducking for cover::::

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Nice touch Colonel. Frankly I’d love to catch up.

        Read a piece this month in “Harpers” about Vietnamese, American born or brought here as babies who are returning to Viet-nam. The whiners are bemoaning the loss of their native culture……. Unfortunately it seems that our educational system wants to reject the concept that despite our differences, we all share a common American culture which is an amalgamation of the best, not the worst of where our ancestors all came from.

        My Grandfather died when my Dad was 15. When my Dad pestered him about just where we came from and what it was like his standard answer was, “you don’t want to know, it was awful, I don’t want to remember”. I doubt there are few Jews dumb enough to want to revisit the site of pogroms against their grand and great grandparents. Remember a melting pot, not a mosaic. What dumb morons we are producing in this country.

        I remember a former friend from long before we split over Trump trying to convince me (he had taken the same Latin classes I had) That E Pluribus Unum actually meant “Out of one….many”. He got pissed when I sent him the translation. This Yugoslavia thing DOES NOT WORK.

  56. Mathius says:

    Lost the video, but really wanted to post it here, I’m sorry, you’ll just have to do with my description:

    5-8 black males in hoodies/masks had broken into and were actively looting a cigar/cigarette shop in (I believe) Houston – but definitely Texas.

    A while male runs up to the entrance, takes up a weaver stance, stays well clear, and starts shouting “Move! Move! Move!” at the looters as they one by one drop their goods and ease slowly out the door, hands in sight, and run off.

    Not a shot was fired. No one got hurt.

    Video cut off, but it looked like the (maybe middle eastern?) clerk/owner came out to thank the guy at the end.

    Good Guy With A Gun™ wins the day!

    • Mathius says:

      Oh, and, of course, the white guy had a big cowboy hat.

      • of course he did…..BUT…he obviously had a gun….Just him yelling move ain’t gonna work….the lads in the store made a great choice. Leave empty handed or be shot.

        They were lucky…most store owners would have most likely shot.

        • Mathius says:

          They were lucky…most store owners would have most likely shot.

          I got the impression the guy was just a bystander.

          That said, if he’d shot those guys.. up here, he’d have had no standing to do so and would probably have been charged with manslaughter or some such. But down there, do you just get to shoot criminals?

          Like, if those men hadn’t dropped the cigarettes, would the bystander have been allowed to just shoot them? I know it’s Texas and all.. but it just seems a bit Wild West to this city slicker.

          They were lucky…

          I actually think they were very lucky the guy was so professional about it.

          I don’t know about down where you live, but up here, most of the gun owners I know are the kinds of guys who fantasize about getting to be the hero.. the kinds of guys who want to be John McClane in Die Hard and go on a one-man rampage against the baddies. There isn’t one gun owner I know up here who I believe would have not started firing, imagining himself on the news the next day as a hero.

          I’m sure you know the type.

  57. Thoughts to ponder:

    DeBlasio may be the dumbest Mayor in modern times.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Why does this fit todays issues? Black people want to be treated with respect and dignity by the cops (as does everyone). Yet, here we have another tragic incident and young black people are out looting, burning and vandalizing. The message was lost by their actions. As for the white trash out there doing the same thing, I’m still for live bullets to the ass.

    I think Cuomo will step in the NYC issue hard if things continue there current path.

  58. ALBANY, NY—New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has ordered nursing homes to admit violent rioters and protesters throughout the state.

    “If we are going to be compassionate, caring, and pro-science, we need to admit these oppressed individuals into every care facility available,” he said at a press conference this morning. “I don’t want to hear any talk of how this might hurt old people. This isn’t the Dark Ages — we listen to SCIENCE in this state!”

    The order forced nursing homes to admit anyone carrying a brick, Molotov cocktail, baseball bat, or bike lock and house them until they recover. Scientists agree this is the best possible move and say that anyone who has concerns about how it might affect the elderly is an anti-science bigot.

    “What a nice young man!” Ethel Carver said as one protester burst in with a Molotov cocktail. “Ooooh! He brought a fun toy to play with too! Come over here and let me pinch your cheek!”

    There has been considerable violence in the nursing homes since this occurred, though these deaths are being counted as COVID-19-related.

  59. Mathius says:

    So, on Monday, there were peaceful protests in Lafayette Park (across from the White House) which were broken up. Here’s my best take on what happened, as well as I can piece it together, not having been there myself.

    Curfew (which I adamantly think should be illegal) was not in effect for another 20-30 minutes.

    The Park Service claims they issued three warnings and demands that the crowd disburse, but multiple journalists on-site from multiple outlets have claimed they heard no such warnings/demands. (note “not hearing it” is not the same thing as “it didn’t happen”)

    Arlington County police released a memo asserting that the order for “redirection” was given 10 minutes prior to the.. err.. redirection. So, according to the authorities, the protesters had 10 minutes of “warning time” to clear out, which they did not do. So a decision was made to force them out.

    The statement said that officers “did not unholster batons, or fire rubber bullets or tear gas at the protesters.” On Tuesday, this was amended to remove the reference to batons.

    The Secret Service was, well… secretive… and declined to comment. No surprise there.

    US Park Police Chief Monhan, on Tuesday, asserted further via Twitter – “No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park.”

    He then went a bit further: “As many of the protesters became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls.” He described “caches of glass bottles, baseball bats, and metal poles hidden along the street,” which frankly, I find rather dubious.

    So, either way, not “tear gas,” but yes “smoke canisters and pepper balls.” It’s worth noting that, in other instances where pepper balls and smoke canisters have been deployed, reporting and witnesses have similarly noted confusion between them and tear gas. So, I guess, this is an understandable point of confusion. I doubt that I could tell you the difference between “smoke canisters + pepper balls” vs “tear gas” if they were used on me.

    Now, a big question here, the narrative being pushed on the left, is “did Trump & co have police aggressively (and questionably legally) break up a peaceful protest, using tear gas chemical irritants and batons in order to enable Trump to take a stroll through the park for a photo op in order to look “strong”?”

    Well, Trump & Co, of course, dispute this narrative.

    According to a CBS News Justice Department source, Barr and his department made the decision to move the crowd back from the square regardless of Trump’s plan to walk to the church for photos. In this narrative, AG Barr – for some reason – is in charge of deciding the appropriate defensive perimeter for the White House because we all know that lawyers are the best tacticians when it comes to this kind of thing.


    So, we have one event with two wildly different stories:

    A) POTUS & Co wanted a photo op including a walk through the park where peaceful protesters were gathered. He obviously couldn’t walk through them for obvious security reasons, and also because he is a thin-skinned coward who might have a stroke if he had to face people who didn’t like worship him. So they sent in goons to tear gas violently disburse the crowd without warning, even though they were there legally. Once the park was cleared, Trump was able to take his stroll. At the church, heused a fake bible because each time he tried to use a real one, it burst into flames.

    B) The AG decided to extend the WH perimeter a day or two earlier. When he found out that this hadn’t been done, he was so incensed and concerned for his boss’ safety that he ordered it be done immediately. No, it couldn’t even wait a half hour! The kindly peace officers were ignored three times when politely asking that the crowd leave. So they had no choice but to intimidate the crowd into compliance. The crowd, which had apparently anticipated getting violent, and had stockpiled weapons including caches of metal poles, turned on the police whereupon the police had no choice but to use tear gas pepper balls and batons. By sheer coincidence, just after the park had been cleared, POTUS decided to go for a stroll through that same park (now free of protesters) to take a photo op in front of a church he doesn’t attend because he is a deeply devout man and felt a deep connection to the church.


    Obviously, I don’t buy either scenario entirely, though, obviously, I side more toward the former. The later just reaks of ass-covering justifications while the former paints too black-and-white of a picture of the WH’s actions. The Truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in the middle. But, again, I suspect it’s much closer to A’s than B’s.

    But, in all of this, Mathius wonders on thing above all else.. why the hell couldn’t they just wait a half-hour for curfew? Regardless of who gave the order, why, when, what tactics were deployed, when, and by whom… why the fuck wouldn’t Trump & Co just wait 30 minutes for curfew so that the gathering would have been an illegal gathering? Then there’s no problem breaking it up. Why break up a legal and peaceful protest that you know has to be order (or become illegal) within a half hour? It’s just.. so… dumb!

    • I also asked the question…….why did he even want to go there and of course it was an opportunity, Another question as to the “peaceful” protest….is this the same protest that 45 minutes before his walk tried to push through a white house fence? IF it was the same protest, then it is not so peaceful.

      I am sure that trump wanted to go to the church and tells the secret service, I want to go to the church. I am quite sure that Trump did not say…”CLEAR ‘EM OUT”…he would not have to……Tell the secret service what you want, the secret service responds…yes sir…give us 30 minutes and you can go…..

      I doubt that I could tell you the difference between “smoke canisters + pepper balls” vs “tear gas” if they were used on me. Probably not, however, real tear gas is more than an irritant. Pepper balls, on the other hand, mixed with smoke is very effective. Tear gas, being more heavy and will not travel with smoke. Pepper balls, on the other hand will stay with the smoke until the smoke is gone. Very effective, non lethal, and burns like jalapeno juice in your eyes. Tear gas can actually trigger breathing issues. Tear gas is the same as CS gas…..just depends on the percentages used.

      He described “caches of glass bottles, baseball bats, and metal poles hidden along the street,” which frankly, I find rather dubious. Do not find this dubious. It is a well used tactic and has been used in Texas just recently except it was frozen water bottles and bricks…pallets of bricks along the march route.

      According to a CBS News Justice Department source, Barr and his department made the decision to move the crowd back from the square regardless of Trump’s plan to walk to the church for photos. In this narrative, AG Barr – for some reason – is in charge of deciding the appropriate defensive perimeter for the White House because we all know that lawyers are the best tacticians when it comes to this kind of thing. This is what you should find dubious. I doubt this very much.

      • Mathius says:

        is this the same protest that 45 minutes before his walk tried to push through a white house fence? IF it was the same protest, then it is not so peaceful.

        I think that was a different day.. but honestly, time has lost all meaning to me and I can’t be sure anymore.

        I am quite sure that Trump did not say…”CLEAR ‘EM OUT”…he would not have to……Tell the secret service what you want, the secret service responds…yes sir…give us 30 minutes and you can go…..

        Even assuming this is true, I’d have to ask you why it’s right that “POTUS wants to walk through the park” means that the Secret Service is justified in “clearing out” hundreds of people who have a legal right to be there.

        Put another way, why does Trump get to decide HE gets to use the park instead of the civilians already there? Is he a king?

        I’m trying to imagine Obama feeling the urge to go golfing, and his route to go there happens to cut though a Tea Party Rally, so the SS and Park Service “disburse” the Tea Partiers and wind up shooting them with pepper balls so that Obama can get to his game. I’m trying to imagine this happening and the right not losing their minds over it.

        pallets of bricks along the march route.

        I’ve been seeing a bunch of posts on this.. protesters taking a picture and posting it with a caption like “This pallet of bricks just appeared here overnight. Someone is trying to bait us!” And then other people are responding that the bricks have been there for months from repaving the sidewalk and it goes back and forth without good answers.

        It’s hard to know who to believe, but I’m really not much of a conspiracy theoriest, so it’s hard for me to get behind the idea of Trump allies secretly delivering loads of bricks to protest sites hoping to encourage rioting to make the protesters look bad.

        I mean, that’s not to say there aren’t provocateurs.. but I’d bet the opportunistic looters and the hotheads are the main drivers by an order of magnitude.

        This is what you should find dubious. I doubt this very much.

        I find many things dubious.


        But the question remains: WHY do it then? Why not just wait a half-hour until Curfew? Then they either leave on their own or they’re there illegally and the park service / police are “justified” in breaking them up.

        Also, why doesn’t Curfew apply to Trump? Is he a king?

    • People were throwing things at the cops, BEFORE they began moving them. I know this because I watched it live. It was NOT peaceful once the first thing is tossed. Thats when the protest is over. They acted well within the law and training.

      P.S. They were a lot nicer than we were when the Cubans rioted in Panama during Operation Safe Haven. We busted heads hard, put people on crutches and caused a lot of blood loss. They chose to not riot for the remainder of their stay.

      • Mathius says:

        People were throwing things at the cops, BEFORE they began moving them. I know this because I watched it live.

        Don’t suppose you have a link.

        I’d love to watch for myself..

    • Curfew means be in your house, not start packing up at that time. Everyone knew there was a curfew. They stayed in the street purposely to trigger police action. Peaceful my ass.

      • Mathius says:

        Curfew means be in your house, not start packing up at that time.

        So the police knew how long it would take everyone to make their way home?

        I always hated this kind of logic. It’s bullshit. If curfew says “be off the street” then you’re allowed to be on the street until curfew. If you’re still on the street after curfew, then that’s your problem.

        They stayed in the street purposely to trigger police action.

        I am so sick of hearing about “triggering” police.

        They’re police officers, not bears.

        Peaceful my ass.

        By EVERY account I’ve been able to find, the protest was peaceful UNTIL the police started breaking it up.

        That is.. a peaceful and legal protest was ongoing.. the police, apparently, by your logic, decided to enforce curfew early so that everyone would have time to get home in time, issued three warnings that nobody seemed to hear, waiting ten minutes, then used a show of force / intimidation, THEN protesters (allegedly) turned violent, then the police used tear gas pepper balls and smoke canisters.

        “The colonel is clearly a very violent person! After I broke into his house and started punching him, he had the audacity to take a swing at me. Peaceful my ass!”

        • Sir Mathius….. By EVERY account I’ve been able to find, the protest was peaceful UNTIL the police started breaking it up. Isn’t that how most get started?

          • Mathius says:

            Isn’t that how most get started?


            Most of the time, I imagine, they devolve into violence before the police get involved.

            It’s a bit backward to me that the protest was peaceful and legal and before curfew.. and then cops start breaking it up and then the protesters who had every right to be there are the bad guys..

            “I broke into the colonel’s house.. how dare he shoot me?!”

  60. Francis Hutcheson: A Scottish enlightenment moral philosopher and teacher of Adam Smith and other is in the Scottish enlightenment. Jefferson got the phrase “pursuit of happiness” from Hutcheson. The abolitionist movement had foundations in Hutcheson’s work as well.

    Influence in Colonial America (from Wiki)

    Norman Fiering, a specialist in the intellectual history of colonial New England, has described Francis Hutcheson as “probably the most influential and respected moral philosopher in America in the eighteenth century.”[8] Hutcheson’s early Inquiry into the Original of Our Ideas of Beauty and Virtue, introducing his perennial association of “unalienable rights” with the collective right to resist oppressive government, was used at Harvard College as a textbook as early as the 1730s.[9] In 1761, Hutcheson was publicly endorsed in the annual semi-official Massachusetts Election Sermon as “an approved writer on ethics.” [10] Hutcheson’s Short Introduction to Moral Philosophy was used as a textbook at the College of Philadelphia in the 1760s.[11] Francis Alison, the professor of moral philosophy at the College of Philadelphia, was a former student of Hutcheson who closely followed Hutcheson’s thought.[12] Alison’s students included “a surprisingly large number of active, well-known patriots,” including three signers of the Declaration of Independence, who “learned their patriotic principles from Hutcheson and Alison.” [13] Another signer of the Declaration of Independence, John Witherspoon of the College of New Jersey (now Princeton University), relied heavily on Hutcheson’s views in his own lectures on moral philosophy.[14][15] John Adams read Hutcheson’s Short Introduction to Moral Philosophy shortly after graduating from Harvard.[16] Garry Wills argued in 1978 that the phrasing of the Declaration of Independence was due largely to Hutcheson’s influence,[17] but Wills’s work suffered a scathing rebuttal from Ronald Hamowy.[18] Wills’ view has been partially supported by Samuel Fleischacker, who agreed that it is “perfectly reasonable to see Hutcheson’s influence behind the appeals to sentiment that Jefferson put into his draft of the Declaration…”[19]

  61. Canine Weapon says:

  62. Mathius says:

    Ok, don’t get me wrong.. this guy was asking for trouble.


    I’m not sure the pepper spray was really “called for” since he was not being threatening in any way, but as usual, I’m not trained in this kind of thing so I’ll have to leave off judgement there.

    I also see that he did turn back toward the cops – a pretty damned stupid move.

    And I’m always leery of videos that are so closely cropped (I couldn’t find a longer one). It makes me feel like there might be something important being cut off.

    But I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that getting shot in the face with.. whatever that was.. is probably not an appropriate reaction.


    • I am happy to hear you are learning and now want to know the rest of the story. Congratulations Mathius.

      • Mathius says:

        I always want to know the rest of the story.. but tell me a scenario where shooting the guy in the face point-blank was ok?

    • Well, first off……you can’t fix stupid. Pretty dumb move on his part…..the pepper spray in the beginning was a warning….Sure wish I knew what was fired into the man’s face. But I would call that one……over kill. there was no real threat that pepper spray and a quick baton could not have handled.

      • Mathius says:

        So…. I’m less concerned with the stupid guy.. stupid is as stupid does… but the officer in question… what do you think?

        I mean, even if he thought it was appropriate to fire on a lone pepper-sprayed guy, I mean, he shot him point-blank in the face… how is that NOT “excessive force” to “attempted murder”?

        (or, hell, maybe just murder – I don’t know.. is the guy still alive? I can see something like that pretty easily killing a person)

        • I said it was over kill…….over kill is excessive force in Colonelese…..However, I have seen video photo shopped before……What I find somewhat dubious, is there are no other accounts of this out there or I cannot find any.

          But…..yes….it was excessive force…..and judging by the projectile…whatever it was….it was traveling at a pretty good clip…The video cutting off so quick, I also find suspect. That type of real velocity would have driven this guy into another county….something is amiss here.

          • Mathius says:

            over kill is excessive force in Colonelese

            What is the penalty to the officer in Colonelese?

            Lose your badge? Back to basic training? Go to jail?

            What I find somewhat dubious, is there are no other accounts of this out there or I cannot find any.


            and judging by the projectile…whatever it was….it was traveling at a pretty good clip…The video cutting off so quick, I also find suspect.

            The cut off I – THINK – comes from the ricochet trajectory.. it’s in the general direction of the filmer.. easy to see that a civvy would panic and stop filming, run off, whatever, and any subsequent footage would be useless.

            Not saying that’s what happened, just that it would make sense.

            • Interesting part of your link: No members of the community were seriously hurt.

              But that looked pretty painful.

              • Mathius says:

                I commented on this, too….

                My theory is either:
                (A) they threw him in the woodchipper afterward and simply declined to report the “injury”
                (B) given that he walked directly into the police, took that pepper spray like a champ, then turned back toward the police afterward.. this guy has an insanely high pain threshold and an extraordinarily thick skull… thus no injury.

                I’m picturing the round making a metallic *PING* sound as it ricochets off his forehead, then he just sort of shakes like a dog and strolls casually off into the night like nothing happened. The next morning, he wakes up with a slight headache.

            • What is the penalty to the officer in Colonelese? In my command, as a civilian, this officer would have been immediately relieved of his duties. Most likely, there would be whatever hearing is available to me to determine the mental faculties of whether this particular officer should even be in this type of work. It is not up to the police officer to charge anyone,,,,it is a district attorney that has to charge anyone,….so, doing anything other than relieving him of duty and possibly kicking him out….there is nothing. But I would have done the max.

              As a Colonel, I have more power and no union to deal with….I would have relived him on the spot and initiated an immediate article 32 proceeding. He would be sent to quarantine or confined to quarters. As a commander, I have the power to confine and the immediate power to reduce him in rank. He certainly would be removed from civil duty (riot control). Beyond that, there is nothing else. I cannot charge him with anything criminal because, like a district attorney, the judge advocate can only do that. I would have maxed him out in whatever capacity I could.

            • The interesting aspect of it as well…..this was a white guy…..and no outrage. If it had been a black guy, it would still be all over everywhere. A clear double standard.

              • Mathius says:

                this was a white guy…..and no outrage.

                I’m outraged.

                Over 3mm people have watched that video as of the time the article on it was published.

                People were outraged enough that it came up on my feed multiple times on multiple platforms.

                I was outraged enough to bring it to SUFA.

                You were outraged enough to knock the guy down in rank, initiate maximum punishment within your power, and refer him to the DA to charge.

                Were you looking for riots on his behalf? No one knows his name or what became of him and they’re already kind of distracted with the riots they’re already having… like my mother always used to say “Mathius, you cannot start a new riot until you’ve finished with your last one.”

              • Until you brought it up, I have not seen it nor heard it reported on the news…..of course, I do not park myself in front of the TV either.

              • Mathius says:

                Until you brought it up, I have not seen it nor heard it reported on the news

                Well, I mean, it hasn’t exactly been a “quiet” news cycle, now has it?

                Random guy takes canister to the head for no goddamned reason is a solid story that deserves attention and outrage.. but it’s hard to pull focus from all the other crazy shit that’s going on.

                Honestly, you could cure cancer tomorrow, and I’m not entirely sure you’d be above the fold.

              • I will be surprised if the Liberal media does much with this story, it doesn’t fit the racist cop narrative that is prevalent right now, despite not knowing if racism even was an issue with the cops in the Floyd case.

        • I can see something like that pretty easily killing a person No doubt….what is bothering me the most is no other accounts of this and no increased rioting because of this….something……jusst…not…”kosher”.

          • Mathius says:


            “That night Grand Rapids police arrested 7 people when the protest turned violent. City officials said there were no serious injuries to members of the community or law enforcement.”

            Look, people get lucky.. that guy definitely seems to have an extra-thick skull.. sometimes people walk away from things that would kill a less fortunate person… but it’s hard to imagine “no serious injury” from this kind of thing…..

            Then again, he took that pepper spray like a CHAMP, so maybe he’s just a beast who can shrug off getting shot in the head.

            • Yes, and I am surprised about the pepper spray…I just assumed it was…it could be normal 1.5% mace. Pepper spray at 5% is damned debilitating. I do not care how nasty he appears to be.

              • One other thing…a normal tear gas canister is fired at 750 pps…a head shot like that is amazing that it was still attached to his frame.

              • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

                The guy should be dead. Period!

              • Stephen K. Trynosky says:
              • Which kinda leads one to the conclusion that this, in all probability, didn’ t happen. I suspect the second part was faked.

              • Mathius says:

                Pepper spray at 5% is damned debilitating. I do not care how nasty he appears to be.

                My thinking is that even at 5%, it might take a second or two to fully hit you. The guy looks like he might have been on something or inebriated (and that would explain why he walking into the cops like that).. could delay the reaction it a bit.

                He clearly “felt” it, but I think of it like eating ghost peppers, you know, sometimes the heat hits you all at once like a wall, sometimes it takes a second to work it’s way into your system.

                I’d wager good money that if they’d just waited another second or two, the guy would have been fully handled.

                One other thing…a normal tear gas canister is fired at 750 pps…a head shot like that is amazing that it was still attached to his frame.

                Who’s to say that his head is still attached? I have seen no confirmation that the guy wasn’t thrown in a woodchpper after this incident.

                Until I see this guy on the news, with a big divot in his forehead, I’m going to assume that he’s dead or in a coma. I don’t know what they shot at him, but you don’t “walk that off.” I don’t care what kind of a beast you are.*


                *then again, I do know one old inhabitant of SUFA with the hardest head of any man living. I swear, his skull must have been carved of a solid block of granite. I doubt he’d even flinch taking a long-nine to the face..

            • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

              That’s it….blame the Jews!

              • Mathius says:

                ::slaps forehead::

                WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THAT?!!

              • Wait…what kind of Jew ARE you……are you not supposed to say something like, “Oy Vey…then slap your forehead and say, why didn’t I think of that….

              • Mathius says:

                There are an awful lot of Jews who would (very reasonably) argue that I am not a Jew.

              • Mathius says:

                Wait…what kind of Jew ARE you

                By the way… I may be a terrible Jew.. but my “Jew Sense” sure has been tingling of late.

                Something is brewing in all this. I can feel it in my Jew-y bones. I can’t escape the feeling of being in 1930’s Germany or in Tsarist Russia just as the Pogroms were starting to materialize. Like we’re just a small step away from Manzanar 2.0.

                It’s not even a “Trump thing” although he’s a shit bag wannabe dictator.. it’s more.. something in the air and the culture… a shift… a barometric pressure that warns of a full-blown race war just over the horizon…

                Something is brewing. And unless someone figures out how to de-escalate this situation, and quickly, we’re going to find out the hard way what that is.

    • Just A Citizen says:

      Complete FAIL by the two cops. Fire their arses and the horses they rode in on.

  63. Mathius says:
    • The looters are mixed bag of Antifa (which is largely white socialists/facsists) and thugs of all races.

    • The real question….why a barber shop? Granted, the lad needed a haircut,,,,but…no one was there.

      • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

        Just to let you know, on the radio this AM was a guest who is a writer and black who participated in that Frisco march. The organizers had it down perfectly he aid and it ended peacefully with a prayer BUT a group of whites dressed Antifa style tried to hijack it. While half the participants left the other half were led up streets NOT previously cleared with police and violence was encouraged though because of the cops and the sane protesters (like the radio guest who asked the blacks on either side of him why were they following white guys?) did not happen.


    Ok, who to believe, the Park Police or the NY Times?

    I’ll take the PP, given that I saw it and it was NOT tear gas.

  65. sigh….moderation, please.

  66. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    So, I Guess that now in the lexicon of lying liars for the next 50-75? years we will hear how Trump personally ordered the Secret Service to use tear gas and rubber bullets to clear the Park so he could do his photo op. That will join hin asking teh Russians to hack Hillary’s E-mails and demanding teh Ukrainians cook up some dirt on Biden Jr.

    What I really wish would be for someone to ask both the Rector and Bishop if next time, they would just like us to let the church burn. Some nice pricey real estate there you know.

    As a Christian, a Catholic who is not that far from Episcopalians (though I reject the High Priestess concept) I am absolutely amazed that they are unfamiliar with that fellow Jesus who told us that his Kingdom was not of this World and if we led a good life, we would get our reward in the hereafter. He essentially told us the world was unfair. He also seemed I remember to reject himself as an earthly ruler and advised his people to follow the laws of man and the laws of God. Of course everything I just said is based on the premise that the Bishop and the Rector and the Catholic Bishop bent out of shape over the visit to the JP II memorial, actually believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, that he was not just some nice man if he even existed or for that matter, do they believe in the concept of a God at all?

  67. Stephen K. Trynosky says:

    Headlines tomorrow, below the fold should read


  68. Mathius says:

    Something a bit more interesting and less “the world is ending”…

    • Stephen K. Trynosky says:

      And the Air Force hates it, always has and has tried to scrap them for thirty years. You see, not a plane for fighter jocks (who tend to run the Aerofarce)

      After Viet-nam, we needed a replacement for teh 1945 vintage AD 1 skyraider who served as a long loiter close air support platform in Korea and Vietnam. So, they came up with this. I wonder what the Colonel’s opinions are. Without having been there, I think I would love an aircraft covering me that flew low and slow rather than some streamlined Mach 2 fighter who cannot see shit.

      • Mathius says:

        I think I would love an aircraft covering me that flew low and slow rather than some streamlined Mach 2 fighter who cannot see shit.

        I’m no colonel.. or, maybe I am… what do you know? But I have to imagine that it’s 99.99% a question of “the right tool for the right job.”

        There are, no doubt, times when you want a Warthog and times when you want an F-22. And pretty much anytime I don’t need things to go boom, I want a Blackbird.*

        I do a bit of woodwork and a lot of handiwork around the house… I certainly have my favorite tools, don’t get me wrong, but when the situation calls for something specific, things just go easier when you pick the right tool, not just the one you’re most comfortable with. (Mathius says this as he starts drooling over the new bandsaw he knows he’s getting for Father’s Day even though he has no idea what he’s going to do with it.)

        *you have to love something whose defensive strategy for being shot at with missiles is to simply outrun them.

      • Ohhhhhhh….the love of close air support. In Vietnam, I used the A1E Sky raider as much as possible for close air support (CAS). The Sky Raider could stay on station for an hour easily whereas the F4 Phantom could stay on station for about 5 minutes. But both were a welcome sight. The Air Force would drop ordinance from 1500 or 2,000 feet with the Phantom. The Marine pilots in the Sky Raider would put the ordinance in your shirt pocket from 500 feet or lower.

        In Desert Storm, it was a little more fun using the Warthog. Not only could it stay on station, but the armament was fantastic. The anti-tank support was incredible. Mathius is correct in that it is a matter of using the right tool for the job. Anything low and slow for CAS was preferable but being low and slow also made it an easy target. On the march in Desert Storm, the Warthog and the Apache were great for flying cover.

        However, defensive weaponry changed the landscape quite a bit. In Vietnam, the Sky Raider was very successful because the only thing that could really shoot it down was a .51 caliber AAA….A russian made version of our 50 cal. Sometimes a ZSU could take it out but not very often. The Shy Raider was too slow for radar technology. This changed in Desert Storm. The Warthog became an easier target. It did have an exhaust for shoulder fired surface to air weaponry, if you had the guts enough to stand there and acquire the target.

        Since we had air superiority in both theaters, neither plane was in harms way except from the ground. The one thing that really impressed me was the main gun on the Warthog. I watched it fire from the nose gun and it seemed as if the damn thing hovered if not it looked like it was pushed backwards in mid air. The engineering was phenomenal.

        I used the Warthog about three or four times because the main battle was over in two days. In Vietnam, I used the Sky Raider probably 25 or 30 times. The Gunfighters out of Da Nang (F4 Phantoms) were exceptionally well used and they were good. But nothing compared to CAS like the Sky Raider and the Warthog. Two different aircraft in two different wars and different technology.

        In Vietnam, we did not have GPS technology nor laser guided anything. In Desert Storm, (Kuwait) we had GPS and satellite tracking and lasers. We could “light up” a target with a laser scope and the Warthog could pick it up and take over. In Vietnam, we had to direct the Sky Raiders strictly through map coordinates. So, two different utilities in two different times.

        My hat is off to both types of aircraft…..the Sky Raiders bailed my ass out of trouble several times with what we called danger close CAS… Kuwait, I was never in trouble from being over run but the Warthog, in combination with the Apache, could carve up the country side and rid you of enemy tanks and create you a highway. The running joke to those of us on the ground in our M1s and M2s, was that we wanted something to shoot also. The Warthogs and Apaches seemed to clean everything up and leave very little for the tankers to shoot.

        Great aircraft…both of them.

        • Ya know, just sitting here remembering the Kuwait theater…as a Battalion commander, just think of the fire power that I had at my disposal. I had four tank companies (14 tanks in each) , and a company of Bradley’s and mech infantry (14 Brads and 9 infantry squads) , a “slice (4) of Apaches, and a “slice” of warthogs (2), 12 pieces of tracked artillery, and a full company of engineers. THAT, my friend, is the definition of power.

          Talk about being powerful………..just think what would have happened had I had the Pirates Hammer on station. WOOOOOOOWEEEEEE…………………….

        • Mathius says:

          The one thing that really impressed me was the main gun on the Warthog. I watched it fire from the nose gun and it seemed as if the damn thing hovered if not it looked like it was pushed backwards in mid air. The engineering was phenomenal.

          You may enjoy this…

  69. Interesting Texas factoid……on this day in 1836, a mounted ranger company in the service of the Texas revolutionary army captured a Mexican ship. The rangers, under the command of Major Isaac Burton, were dispatched to watch a stretch of the gulf coast south of San Antonio Bay. When they heard of a suspicious ship in Copano Bay, the rangers hid on shore and sent up distress signals. The ship responded by first hoisting American and Texas signals, which were ignored by the rangers. Only when the ship raised Mexican signals did the rangers respond. Thus tricked into thinking that the distress signals were supposedly from the Mexican army, the captain came ashore and was captured. With him as hostage, the 16 rangers rowed out and boarded the Mexican ship, The Watchman, and seized its cargo of provisions for the Mexican army along with the ship itself turned over to the Texas Navy. The rangers employed this tactic two more times on June 17, when they captured the Mexican ships, Comanche and Fanny Butler. For these unlikely captures at sea, the mounted rangers were dubbed “Horse Marines”.


    So the election results are a joke, people still had to go to the polls but somehow it’s all okay. They did their best.

  71. A new thread is posted.

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