It is hard to fathom that we are only twenty some years out of the societal chaos we had in the eighties and early nineties and yet this upcoming generation has NO concept of what us older folks went through, especially those of us who were fighting it at the time and dealt with it up close and personal.
How can a police force like NYC which is only 51% white, the rest minority, still be a racist police force? By teh way notice how NOBODY ever mentions that ethnic composition. people in the hinterland, watching CNN, MSNBC or even FOX have no clue, none.
He says, no jobs…they are there but no one takes them.
Maybe if they paid a living wage?
There is – ABSOLUTELY – a problem when you choice is (A) bust your ass at a minimum wage and make $300 or (B) sit on the couch collecting [insert program] benefits and make $280. It destroys the incentive. (This is why Mathius advocates that, to collect welfare, etc, you have to go out and dig a hole one day and fill it in the next or collect litter or or or.. just not sit around entitled to it so the choice is work hard and pointlessly for 280 vs work hard for a job for 300.)
But that said, there are a lot – a lot – of people who cannot, simply cannot live on what they make. They work two jobs. Sometimes three. And these jobs are all structured part-time so that there are no benefits. So it’s just a shite situation.
And it’s only going to get worse. I keep harping on this, but automation is eating and will continue to eat all the low skill jobs. In the next few years, pretty much every driver job (the single biggest job category) is going to vanish. Millions of drivers will be replaced by a handful of engineers and programmers. And then what? What are those drivers supposed to do? Pick themselves up by their bootstraps? Retrain to be AI programmers? Just die?
To imagine “there are jobs if you want them” as a solution ignores that the jobs (A) aren’t always there or (B) cannot justify being worked at the wage they pay.
If we killed the minimum wage, I’m sure some jobs would drop to a dollar an hour and someone would do them. But that person could work all day every day and never escape poverty – at best, they would succeed at “not dying.” That’s not a solution.
He says fatherless families because of prison terms….but crime is a choice, not a product of poverty…..
Tell that to Jean Val Jean.
He says fatherless families because of prison terms….but crime is a choice, not a product of poverty…..
You’ll also note that I’m lamenting what it does to the CHILDREN of such families. Crime might have been a “choice” of the parents, but the children raised without two parents did not get a say in the matter.
Maybe if they paid a living wage? YOU, sir do not get to determine what a living wage is and neither does the government. Only the person that is going to work determines what a living wage is. In Texas, the median income is $74k….a family of four can have a 2500 sq ft home, two cars, and eat on this wage. I bet in your area, you cannot buy a hotdog.
there are a lot – a lot – of people who cannot, simply cannot live on what they make. They work two jobs. Sometimes three. And these jobs are all structured part-time so that there are no benefits. So it’s just a shite situation. Yes…sometimes this is necessary….for awhile. Drop the word benefits….you are not entitled to benefits. If a job offers them, great.
Tell that to Jean Val Jean. I would, if I knew who or what this was…but I will look it up.
You’ll also note that I’m lamenting what it does to the CHILDREN of such families. Crime might have been a “choice” of the parents, but the children raised without two parents did not get a say in the matter. Yes, I will agree with you on this…and it is indeed unfortunate that the children are a by-product of bad decisions. However, the mentality out there raises these children that society has failed them when it is nothing of the sort. The parents failed them. Not you and not me.
I saw Cats in London as a young teenager. I wasn’t familiar with the story or the music but had good seats and was excited to see it.
Some kid, maybe 8 or 9, sitting a row behind me and a few seats over, spent the entire play loudly signing along, off-key and off-beat. And his mother refused to shut him up.
Completely ruined the show.
Now, many years older, and having spent the money to take my kids to a few Broadway shows and pay for those kinds of good seats… I’m pissed in retrospect. That idiotic mother allowed her untamed brat-spawn to ruin an experience that everyone around her had paid a lot of money for. She probably flushed several thousand dollars of other people’s money down the drain and was too entitled to care.
I’m not sure why my parents didn’t grab an usher or demand a refund. Or, baring that, just bludgeon the child to death. Either way.
When I saw it, the two leads had a giggle fit during the Popular song, and the whole show stalled for several minutes while they tried to get their act together. The orchestra kept trying to start up and they’d sing a line and then just collapse into helpless giggles… honestly, it was just so much fun to watch.
Not sure if the director gave them a hard time for it afterward, but the audience loved it. I guess when you’re Kristin Chenoweth or Idina Menzel, you can do pretty much whatever you want on stage.
That said, have you seen Rent, Hamilton, or Les Mis.. very different tones, of course, but just wonderful. Some of my favorites.
Les Mis was amazing. Fantastic talent, great staging, great music, just a full production.
Hamilton was fun. I really liked it and, while some of the music wasn’t to my taste (the psudo rapping), some of the music was excellent. I’m surprised you didn’t like it? Were you expecting Burr to actually shoot Hamilton?
As for Rent… methinks and old fart like your good self would not appreciate it. (And the movie is horrible). It’s pretty far left.. but a fun show.
I thought Hamilton was fun. Wicked was fun. Les Mis is one of the best things in the world, and Rent was just gross. I left at intermission. I would have left sooner if I hadn’t been in the middle of the row. When the girl turned her back on the stage, dropped her pants and slapped herself on the rear, I was done.
Phantom of the Opera was classic, haven’t seen Hamilton, The Book of Mormon was hilarious, Cats was fun, not a fan of Rent, I had the opportunity to perform a piece of Les Mis with the cast which was incredible, but I still think Wicked is my favorite!
<b<$74k….[…] I bet in your area, you cannot buy a hotdog.
Maybe the store brand
I’ll tell you that my family could not survive on 75k… after taxes and my mortgage, that would leave me, maybe a grand a month for literally everything else from cars to insurance to electricity to food to entertainment.
Then again, the way my wife spends money, you’d think we were Rockefellers… she seems to believe that, as long as the credit card keeps working, there’s no problem.
Are wages even fully relevant to if a family can “survive”? Maybe what type of life a family can live, sure. $75k a year will certainly be able to provide you shelter, cloths on your back and food on the table.
However, if you’re saying a family can’t “survive” on $75k a year because they live beyond their means and have financed their whole life, then I don’t think that’s a matter of survival, more a matter of poor money management or lack of priorities. No judgement for those who live that way, I would just have to disagree that those are necessities to live or even live a good life.
People may not get to determine what family they come from, but the day they turn 18 they are responsible for every choice thereafter. Would you not agree?
Ok, sorry for the wall of text.. I really can’t help myself. I hope you’re a quick reader.
Anyway, here’s where I stand on this kind of thing.
Almost anyone who is willing to put in an honest day’s labor AND exercises proper economic discipline can survive. They can afford a roof over their heads, they can afford food in their stomach, they can access some level of medical care. And they can do it for a lot less than 75k.
Something you should understand about my positions, before we go any further, is this: Anyone who CANNOT make ends meet, CANNOT find work, CANNOT afford medical care, et cetera, is owed something as a member of a civilized nation. That we put a roof over their heads, that we put food on their plate, that we treat their (serious) illnesses.
Beyond this, there are certain things that are more utilitarian that we should do as a society because it benefits us all. That is, we should educate everyone because an educated populace is necessary to a Democracy and a competitive workforce, etc. We should provide low-cost preventative medicine because if we don’t, we’re going to pay 1,000x once it’s an emergency. We should pay for birth control so people don’t have unwanted children they can’t afford who might later become a burden on the system. A case can be made for providing (basic) cell phones because it’s almost impossible to get work if you don’t have a phone for the person to call to hire you. A case can be made for substance abuse care because it reduces crime (both less crime and less cost of prison) and they could be more productive members of society if they weren’t addicted. A case could be made for a lot of other things. These are squishy, but boil down to: “we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.”
Other than basic human necessities and things which benefit us as a society from a utilitarian perspective, I (unlike most lefties) do not have one teensy tiny little ounce, no not an iota, of obligation to anyone else. (I think the typical Democratic position on all this is just insane).
And further than this, just to be clear, if you CHOOSE not to work, I owe you absolutely nothing and you can starve to death and that is simply not my problem. If you work but your spouse CHOOSES not to work, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you have no income, but have plenty of savings, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you have money for cigarettes or drugs or alcohol, but not enough for food, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you CHOOSE to buy a new iPhone and can’t afford rent and now you are homeless, well, not to offend your ladylike sensibilities, but that’s just tough shit.
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Ok, so, back to your comments..
If you can’t live on $75k, you’re mismanaging your funds. You’ve chosen to live somewhere too expensive, you’ve taken out too big a mortgage, you married someone who spends way too much on Amazon.. whatever. If you make $75k, you should be able to live.
Maybe not live well. But, frankly, that’s just not my problem. The world doesn’t owe anyone luxuries.
Maybe you can’t eat out? Maybe you can’t afford a nanny. Maybe you drive a 15 year old used car? Maybe you wear unfashionable clothes? Maybe you use your buddy’s Netflix. Whatever. It doesn’t matter and I, frankly, don’t care. It’s just not my problem.
If I lost my job, I could carry my house for a while, but I’d have to sell eventually. And that would suck. And I’d have to move. And that would suck. And I’d have to take my kids to a lesser school district and that would suck. And none of that would be your problem. And you would owe me nothing.
People may not get to determine what family they come from,
I wish I couldn’ve chosen my family… Mathius Gates… Mathius Buffet… I could live with that..
but the day they turn 18 they are responsible for every choice thereafter. Would you not agree?
Yes.
Honestly, it varies by kid. Some kids are mature earlier some later. Honestly, I don’t think a “kid” becomes a “functional adult” in most cases until a year or two after being forced to be self-sufficient.
But, from a legal standpoint, and given that I’m not going to be individually deciding who is and is not an adult, yes,18.
At 18, you’re responsible.
But that doesn’t change the fact that, at 18, some kids have a million dollars in the bank, had a great education, can expect a fully-paid-for college tuition, and have an old man who has enough connections to ensure that the kid starts out at $150k.
Or maybe the kid had almost no education, an absent father and a drug addicted mother who beat him? Maybe he’s shoved out the front door with no marketable skills, barely literate, and nothing to his name except the clothes on his back?
Extremes, sure, but you get the point. It’s hard for me to look at that second kid, whose life ends up a failure and say “this is all your fault because of your bad decisions after 18.” Nor can I look at the first one and pretend he’s “self-made.” So much of where you end depends on how you start, and we shouldn’t be blind to that.
hahah indeed I am, and proud of it! But like most kids, I do have to push back and disagree with him on occasion. And don’t worry, you can’t offend me. 🙂
I am not a fast reader and not nearly as quick at collecting my thoughts, so you can always expect my responses to be delayed.
You say, Anyone who CANNOT make ends meet, CANNOT find work, CANNOT afford medical care, et cetera, is owed something as a member of a civilized nation.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs? I say that because I am here to learn and continue the expansion of my thinking. Not that I will necessarily agree, but it will give me more understanding. I believe we as a society have the obligation to take care of those mentally and physically disabled. However, I do not agree that anyone beyond that is owed anything, including many things you listed off.
“we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.” This thought interests me, If we truly held people accountable for their actions why would we need to give them a dollar in the first place? In fact, if we stopped giving out dollars, don’t you think more people would have to take more responsibility and reap the consequences of their actions encouraging less people to go down the same path?
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I wish I could’ve chosen my family… Mathius Gates… Mathius Buffet… hahahah!!
Extremes yes, but I get what you’re saying.
I do believe we as a society should help take care of those in need. As villages, not the government. I love the saying “It takes a villiage to raise a child” because I think so much of what we learn growing up goes far beyond the sole influence of our direct family. We should be there for one another and to help our neighbor. However, I think we should have the choice to help who we want, not mandatory because the government has deemed who and take it right out of your pocket. At least here in Seattle, there are organizations to help everyone you could think of. If a guy at 18 was kicked out of his house, there is a place for him to go and a meal waiting for him on the table. There are women’s shelters, men’s shelters, drug rehab facilities, unplanned pregnancy centers, shelters for teens and young adults etc. etc. These should only be funded by the people who chose to help fund them or volunteer their time to help. Don’t these places provide what is needed to get these people back out the door and on their own two feet? If not, that’s where i’d say we have some growing to do. Giving a man a fish is not nearly as helpful as teaching him how to fish. BUT, If we teach them how to fish and they chose to sit there like a baby bird with their mouth wide open waiting to be fed, well that’s their choice and there shouldn’t be an obligation to help them.
To me there isn’t much of a difference in a person’s work ethic if they’ve been given everything their whole life, whether it come from the government or their rich family. I think a lot of parents make the mistake of giving their kids too much, and although they may have a nice car or a nice house, I think they have the same mentality of those who suck off the government. Some may have a different start, yes, but we all have the same opportunities and I believe those who weren’t handed everything actually have more opportunities than those who were. Including those of us who don’t have a college education (which I personally see as an irrelevance today). I think those who start with less face more challenges and obstacles which gives them a much greater long-term advantage over someone starting their adult life with $1m in their account. If, and only if, they choose to see it that way and learn and grow from the struggles. In no way could I agree that so much of where someone ends up is because of where they started.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs?
No one.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs?
.. on an ongoing basis.
There are people who lose their jobs through no fault of their own and need some bridge support. Or who get hit with some huge medical bill and can’t make ends meet, etc.
But in terms of day-to-day living, if you are not physically disabled and/or mentally disabled, then you can and should work. And if you’re working, you can afford to live if you manage your expectations and spending appropriately.
For this reason, I advocate abolishing welfare, stamps, and all those other programs and replacing them with disability insurance and some kind of hybrid of unemployment insurance “temporary paid community service”* and “temporary bad situation beyond my control” support.
(I’m “left,” but the Democrats would burn me at the stake)
*The idea here is that your choice shouldn’t be “sit on couch for $380” or “work for $400.” It should be work for 380 or work a real job for 400. And if we, as a society, can get some benefit out of that work, that’s great. Maybe have them pick up litter or whatever. If not, have them dig a ditch and then fill it in the next day. It really doesn’t matter. Just don’t set up a stupid incentive scheme that encourages non-work.
“we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.” This thought interests me, If we truly held people accountable for their actions why would we need to give them a dollar in the first place?
It’s really not about THEM per se.
It’s about US.
If we agree – and maybe you don’t – that anyone, regardless of ability to pay, should be able to walk into a hospital and receive care for, say, cancer, then it’s only logical that we provide free screenings to catch that cancer early.
The earlier you catch cancer, the cheap it is to treat. That’s to say NOTHING about the higher survival rate. It’s just simple math. If we provide free screenings, then people will catch their cancer early, get it treated earlier, and the total amount that you and I pay will go down.
(Disclaimer: this is a scenario – I have absolutely no idea if this is true in THIS PARTICULAR case, but of course, it is true in some cases. So if not cancer screenings, then maybe handing out cell phones gets people back to work sooner and off UI sooner and that makes more sense. Or or or or or or).
Giving a man a fish is not nearly as helpful as teaching him how to fish. BUT, If we teach them how to fish and they chose to sit there like a baby bird with their mouth wide open waiting to be fed, well that’s their choice and there shouldn’t be an obligation to help them.
AMEN!
I think all too often, people forget that human beings respond to incentives. If you give them an incentive to sit there with their beaks open rather than going fishing, that IS what they’ll do. So we have to kill that perverse incentive.
I don’t know how old you are, whether you have kids or not, but when you are a parent, you become acutely aware of this kind of thing… kids are just dumber adults with less impulse control and complete guilelessness. You have to be super careful about what incentives are in place, because that’s what they’re going to do. Adults are no different. So – and this is where I think the Democrats* are out of their minds – sometimes when you try to be helpful, you wind up hurting.
*Democratic VOTERS want to be helpful. The Democratic POLITICIANS, like Republican POLITICIANS, are just sociopaths.
To me there isn’t much of a difference in a person’s work ethic if they’ve been given everything their whole life, whether it come from the government or their rich family.
I’ll tell you my experience is that wealthy people almost NEVER work as hard as poor people.
Completely anecdotal, of course.
I think a lot of parents make the mistake of giving their kids too much, and although they may have a nice car or a nice house, I think they have the same mentality of those who suck off the government.
I think it’s more in the VALUES you impart.
It’s not just that they have a lot of stuff. It’s that they’re ENTITLED to a lot of stuff.
I teach my kids that life isn’t fair. That no one owes you anything. And I have ground it into their skulls (to the point where it’s a mantra they’re annoyed with) that the only way to succeed is “work hard and never give up.”
I think you can be born at any income level and, given this parenting, you will be a grinder when you grow up. (but, you know, having wealth and connections and good schooling would still produce a better outcome ceterus paribus).
Including those of us who don’t have a college education (which I personally see as an irrelevance today).
Maybe.
I’ll tell you, I work at a hedge fund. If you don’t have a 4-year degree, you aren’t getting through the door. Full stop. Do no pass go.
You cannot, will not, no way, no how, EVER be hired at a hedge fund or any other kind of high finance institute without a 4-yr.
The only exception here is if you’re, maybe, a trader and can show a crazy track record, or you do investment relations and you are really well connected… but that’s a pretty thin carveout.
THAT SAID, I agree that what you LEARN at college is mostly unnecessary in today’s world unless you’re heading into a field which actually requires it (mine really doesn’t) like engineering or medicine, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that businesses won’t even consider you without it.
I think those who start with less face more challenges and obstacles which gives them a much greater long-term advantage over someone starting their adult life with $1m in their account.
I think this is a great thought, but it’s just not bourne out by the data.
If you are born poor, odds are you’ll die poor.
If you’re born rich, odds are you’ll die rich.
There’s, of course, some mobility in there, but, by and large, where you end up is very well predicted by where you start.
Being born poor is NOT an advantage. Being born poor and being molded into a grinder and developing a monster work ethic and having a brain in your head and having parents who will help get you the education you need and and and… that’s like being born at the bottom of a well, but strapped to a rocket ship.
But, for the majority, being born poor is less “character strengthening” and more “lack of opportunity.”
In no way could I agree that so much of where someone ends up is because of where they started.
This chart – from the Heritage Foundation!! – shows that if you’re born in the top 20%, you have a 40% chance of staying there and an 8% chance of ending up poor. If you’re born in the bottom 20%, you have a 43% chance of staying there and a 4% chance of getting to the top.
This is a couple years out of date (2012), but I don’t think things have changed that much since then.
So, you leave the borders open? How’s that for a simplistic answer?
Now anyone advocating that, has exactly WHO’s interests at heart?
I think, looking at Europe, especially the Scandinavian countries it has been proven that the more educated a country becomes the more the problem you outline becomes self corrected. First gen immigrants still think they are on the farm somewhere where they need ten kids. Usually the 2nd and 3rd gen wise up.
Remember, the ONLY reason we have poverty in the United States is because we import it…..the only reason we have crime in the United States is because we import it. Sorry if that blows upon your particular weltanschauung.
I just received a text from a good friend in Denmark. Here is part of what he asked me. “How in the hell do you justify a funeral procession with horse drawn carriage for a felon that has a rap sheet that stretches around the world.”
I simply replied….”Only in America.” To which he replied, the general consensus in Denmark is that it was a death that should not have happened in the manner it did but it certainly does not rise to the status you crazy Americans put it on. To which I again replied…only in America.
“How in the hell do you justify a funeral procession with horse drawn carriage for a felon that has a rap sheet that stretches around the world.”
Because, criminal or saint, the man was murdered by those who (ostensibly) are there to protect us.
You get that, right?
I mean, we don’t have to canonize the guy. He wasn’t a saint. The issue isn’t about HIM. It’s about the fact that a man was straight-up murdered by police officers.
You get that people aren’t really upset about the death of one random guy who was basically unknown beforehand. You get that people are upset because the police committed a murder, that the murder was done so callously and caught on film. And that people, myself included, believe that there has been far too much of that kind of thing going on way too broadly for way too long.
THAT is what they’re having a procession for. They’re not burying George Floyd, criminal. They’re burying George Floyd Human Being, victim of a brutal, cold-blooded, broad daylight murder by police.
the general consensus in Denmark is that it was a death that should not have happened in the manner it did but it certainly does not rise to the status you crazy Americans put it on.
Tell your friend in Denmark that the US has a…. complicated… history with race.
Tell him that the funeral procession and the riots and the protests aren’t about “Floyd” per se, but about the perception (right or wrong) that there is a problem of systemic racism and excessive violence by the police toward the black community, that this has been going on for decades, and that Floyd was merely a tipping point into the current crisis and not, in and of himself, the crisis itself.
Tell him that black people feel that Floyd was murdered and that, had it not been caught on tape, the cops would have walked free. Tell him that black people, in the span of a month or so, watched a white father and son chase down an innocent black man and murder him on film, saw the men go free and un-charged until there was an uproar, saw a black man in a park get threatened by a racist woman who knew that calling the police with “African American male is threatening me” would result in a dangerous situation for him, and saw Floyd straight-up murdered on camera. And that these incidents are not isolated. And we can debate until we are blue in the face the exact details and nuances of each incident and a thousand others, but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community.
Tell him that the black community is sick and tired of hearing about “bad apples” when there seems to be an awful lot of evidence not only that there are an unacceptable number of bad apples but that they get protected and shielded from consequences when they really shouldn’t be. That the guy who killed Floyd had been in three shootings, killed one of the people, and had eighteen – EIGHTEEN – complains against him, at least seven of which related to “police brutality.” If he were a bad apple, the black community wants to know, what does it take to remove such bad apples and why was he allowed to continue? Why was a man who has shot three people and been accused seven independent times of police brutality and 11 other times of who-knows-what allowed to hold this position of authority and power?
That they are tired of being told that they need to remain calm, respectful, polite, and level headed when a cop has a gun pointed at them or they are responsible, but somehow the cop can be “triggered” by the slightest thing and kill a black man and then hide behind qualified immunity… consequence-free… and that the black community considers this a problem, not an “isolated problem.” And sometimes, they see those cops not only go free, but end up with huge payouts for “pain and suffering” or walk away with lifetime pensions, seemingly rewarded for their actions.
Tell him that, whatever the actual “truth” of the statistical reality is – there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long.
Tell him they aren’t mourning Floyd, just as nobody really cared who Rodney Kind was… it’s not about THEM. It’s about what they’re indicative of.
Tell him they’re mourning all the black men and women who have been killed over the years by what they perceive to be a cavalier attitude toward the lives of black people by the police.
Well… all that… and the fact that there’s a pandemic going on and it’s like a giant pressure cooker that can’t really handle this kind of this with patience at the moment.
Seriously.. send him this.. I’d love to see his take.
Oh, and one last thing. Tell him that the President has said things like: “When you guys [police] put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]. Like, ‘Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.’ I said, ‘You can take the hand away, OK?’ ” And, maybe, just maaaaayyyyyybbbbbeeeee.. black people have a problem with that kind of attitude.
I know I sure as hell do. And I’m as white as a Dane.
I will certainly send it. But with a caveat…….I do not agree with all you say and I will add, that as far as the police go, you have some salient points and most agree with the manner in which the police act. But your statements are not consistent with my thinking. If you wish to limit your systemic racism to the police…ok……but not to the public in general because I do not think that is how most people see it. I certainly do not see it that way. But I will send your text unedited.
Be sure to add, from me, that the Danes make some very find Vikings – kindred of the Pirates, of course – and the I hope his people get back to their roots soon.
The nations to the South are getting a little too big for their britches.
Once again you ignore the facts when it suits your purpose. The girl in the park did receive a veiled threat prior to calling the police. As for police slaughtering blacks, that nonsense and continuing the lie only exacerbates the problem.
The girl in the park did receive a veiled threat prior to calling the police.
Mathius says: And we can debate until we are blue in the face the exact details and nuances of each incident and a thousand others, but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community.
I do believe Mathius hemmed and hawed about these things being perception and refused to opine on the actual truth of such matters.
As for police slaughtering blacks, that nonsense and continuing the lie only exacerbates the problem.
Mathius says: Tell him that the funeral procession and the riots and the protests aren’t about “Floyd” per se, but about the perception (right or wrong) that there is a problem of systemic racism and excessive violence by the police toward the black community
Mathius says: Tell him that, whatever the actual “truth” of the statistical reality is – there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long.
Seems to me that he wasn’t lying.. just stating his understanding of the perception of the black community… Do you deny this is a prominent perception within these communities?
Seems to me you’re seeing him explaining the views of other people, ignoring all his caveats, and then calling him a liar over it. That seems a bit silly, doesn’t it?
If I explain Marist theory, does that make me a Marxist?
A Minneapolis manufacturing company, whose plant burned amid civil unrest following George Floyd’s death, is leaving the city after nearly four decades and taking dozens of jobs with it. The president and owner of 7-Sigma Inc. Kris Wyrobek felt inclined to do so after he says he lost trust in public officials during the riots that plagued the city, according to Star Tribune. “They don’t care about my business,” said Wyrobek told the Star Tribune. “They didn’t protect our people. We were all on our own.” The first of many, I bet.
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Now, a question for our resident libertarian/lefty. If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
Now, a question for our resident libertarian/lefty
You askin’ me or the Pirate?
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
If they do it because it’s a bad investment, then it’s a business decision.
If they do it because “those black people are like animals and I’m not investing in them,” then it’s discrimination / racism.
I know you have a problem with this kind of thinking, but the same exact action can be different things based on intent. If I run over a person by accident it’s not a crime. It’s an accident. Assuming I wasn’t playing with my phone or driving recklessly, maybe the guy just stepped out between to cars and *bang*. I don’t go to jail, I don’t even get a ticket. But if I wait for you in front of your house, then as soon as you go to get the paper I run you over, then back over you, and run you over again, well… Actually, since they’ll never catch me, I’m still not going to jail, but it’s technically a crime, anyway.
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
I’ll hazard a guess that the Pirate would tell you that it’s none of his damned business and if it is racism, then the society has to decide that they won’t do business with racists and punish the bank economically until it’s brought to heel.
And I would call him a loon for thinking that would work.
I don’t know what “an area prone to violence and vandalism,” etc means, though.
“Areas” aren’t prone to anything.
Hell “People” aren’t really even prone to anything.
People react to incentives.
You have to ask yourself what INCENTIVES caused people to burn down their neighborhoods. Only THEN can you proceed.
I would be happy to invest in a town that just rioted… there’s a fortune to be made there. But I’m going to make damned certain that they know I’m their ally… and when they loot the Walmart, you can bet that my store isn’t going to be on the chopping block.
And when they try to pawn off all the stuff they looted from Walmart, I’ll be there to give ’em a fair price and make a reasonable, but not extortionate, profit. Maybe I’ll even go ahead and sell it back to Walmart.
Plus, you know, all my stores come equipped with auto-turrets.. just in case that fails, soo… you know…
I’ll hazard a guess that the Pirate would tell you that it’s none of his damned business and if it is racism, then the society has to decide that they won’t do business with racists and punish the bank economically until it’s brought to heel.
And I would call him a loon for thinking that would work.
And I would tell you that you should stick to something you’re good at – which is NOT politics or guessing how I would answer a question.
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
I would consider them FOOLS.
There’s money to be made, and if you’re a bad businessman, or you allow your racism to cloud your judgement (which is just another way of being a bad businessman), then you will miss out on business opportunities and someone else will eat your lunch.
Don’t want to invest in a community which rioted because you’re afraid you’ll lose your investment? Invest in the people of the community, become the business that cares for and supports and fosters the community and gives back. There are millions upon millions of people in these communities – the profit potential is limitless. You just need to tap into it.
Look at WHY they are rioting and ask yourself: can I do something about that in order to turn this into a potential investment opportunity? If the community is upset about police brutality, can you use your money to change that? Now you’ve got a community that is both a ripe investment opportunity and which already views you favourably (and maybe is overtly hostile to the other companies which abandoned them). Sounds like a good situation to be in.
My guess would be that 99.9% of businesses say “investing in the black community” but think “how can we exploit this community for maximum profit” and it turns out that they don’t like being exploited for maximum profit.
The old adage.. you can sheer a sheep over and over, but skin it only once. Not that these communities are sheep, but if you try to drain them of all their wealth and leave nothing on the table for them, why shouldn’t they burn it all down? None of it is theirs? They have no skin in the game.
The mark of a good businessman is the ability to find and exploit business opportunities.
The mark of a GREAT businessman is the ability to create his own business opportunities.
The human capital exists within the communities. Living, breathing, human beings, being under-utilized for work. Almost completely untapped. Train ’em up, give ’em a vested interest in the town, pay them enough that they don’t feel hostile to you, treat ’em well so they don’t hate you, fight for them, help them. You don’t have to exploit people to profit off them.
If you push too far, eventually, they’re going to burn your factory down and show up at your boat with pitchforks. If you build allies, the potential upside is enormous.
Where is the Pirate, the Colonel asks again. Or has Mathius hijacked the Pirate’s account. This is a well thought out and sensible approach…not the ravings of a Pirate on plunder duty. Where is the Pirate?
One should only gamble what one is prepared to lose. This is very true….very true. So if banks and investors choose not to “gamble” their money in blighted or low income areas because they do not want to lose…..then how can anyone claim racism or red lining is racist…………………under your theory.
If I say, ” I choose not to invest or put my money into or build stores in areas prone to violence and rioting and thefts……why am I a racist”?
Now, from a business’ man’s perspective. I probably would not invest in a neighborhood prone to crime and such…..I doubt that I could find insurance, for one thing and if I was an insurance company, I probably would not offer it or the price would be so high they could not afford it.
A couple for the Colonel……”Ho-Ho-Ho Chin Minh….NLF is gonna win” and of course that wonderful golden oldie….”Hey! Hey! LBJ, How many kids have you killed today?”
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He’s got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We’re gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it’s one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it’s five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain’t no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we’re all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let’s move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds-
The only good commie is the one who’s dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we’ve blown ’em all to kingdom come.
Well, come on Wall Street, don’t move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There’s plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don’t hesitate,
Send ’em off before it’s too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it’s one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it’s five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain’t no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we’re all gonna die.
Yes…we have been through this before in the 60’s and early 70’s. The result will be the same. This, to, shall pass. And this generation will tell the next generation and they will still keep voting in the same miscreants as before thinking that they can change culture and thinking.
Remember when the big desegregation movement was in full swing? Busing and quotas and such in the great social experiment? Put everyone together and mix them up. It will eventually take over…..and you walk into the lunchroom at the schools and look. All the races still sought out their own and all sat with themselves. And it is still that way today. Nothing has changed.
Texas tried the Robin Hood approach for years. Rob the rich to pay the poor. School districts were given the same amount of money under the pretense that if all teachers got the same pay, and all schools were funded in the same way and all were allocated in the same manner then you would not have disparity among the teaching staff. The thought was that if everyone was paid the same it would not matter where you taught. Brand new high schools in low income districts were built with state of the art things, brand new football stadiums, sports exchanges were the same…..etc. It just did not work. The new high schools were trashed, the grades of students did not go up, the sports exchanges did not flourish.
In the more affluent districts, the PTA’s had fund raisers to boost what they lost in this Robin Hood scheme. In the poorer districts, there was no PTA because the parents simply did not care. It was not that they did not have money because they all got the same money…when you bused white kids into black neighborhoods, there was still segregation. When you bused Hispanic kids into black neighborhoods there was still segregation. even when you went to the football games….races still sat together and still do.
It will change and it will take generations to change it. It was already changing in the 60’s and 70’s and it is changing now. But things like these riots……is setting things back. I do not even watch the news because I am tired of it. And, when these groups seize the opportunity, they drive different agendas. A great example of this is right now…..in Fort Worth of all places…a black group wants to go into white enclaves and change all the street names to reflect all the names of black people killed so that the “Whitey’s” can see them every day and be reminded. It will get nowhere, of course, but this is viewed as a set back and like the police, a few bad apples can influence thought…Mathius even comes across that all police are bad. He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman. He does paint with a broad brush. But, I do believe this and I would be willing to try it. De-fund the police. Go to a national police force and teach them guitar lessons and empathy. Do it…..I am all for it. I know how to protect myself and will. “We don’t need no stinking police.”…..
Send them all to classes on empathy and sensitivity,. Send them all to classes on race and culture. Do it. Do it now. And I will sit back and slowly shake my head back and forth and remember what the great society experiments of the 60s and 70s produced. So we will become the great welfare state dependent upon the government to tell us what to do….and nothing will change. We are one…….we are one…….you are obsolete.
My own son even tried it and we did not discourage him. I remember it well as does he. He had a good friend that was black named Devon. He spent the night at our house many times. A very nice kid. But my son could never spend the night at Devon’s house because he was white. He was not welcome at Devon’s house and he was not welcome to play with Devon’s friends. Devon wanted it and my son wanted it but no Whitey’s allowed. And, eventually, Devon had to make a decision. Because associating with a “white boy” made Devon “white”. My son was born in 1972..you do the math. In the mid 80’s, my son asked a black girl that he was friends with to go to the school prom. She was beaten up by her black friends because of it. Nothing has changed.
I think the world HAS changed, at least most of it. Of course, there are pockets of anacronists, but in most of the US, I think a while man can ask a black girl out without anyone being beaten up. Pretty much anywhere except the real ghetto areas. No one I know would have batted an eye at something like that when I was kid – which was in the 90’s-00’s and in Los Angeles, so that’s pretty far removed from Texas in the ’80’s.
But… yes.. the gist of “acting white” and such is an ENORMOUS problem.
And it’s not just “hanging out with whitey,” but sometimes that “getting good grades” or “getting a job” etc can be seen as “acting white” and I cannot stress how POISONOUS this is within those cultures. I posted a video on the last page.. a clip from a show back in the 90’s.. did you want it?
Mathius even comes across that all police are bad. He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman.
I think you’re going to have a hard time supporting this statement from anything I’ve written.
Mathius even comes across that all police are bad.
I’ve argued that the “bad apple” type can’t be more than a few percent, but that they are shielded and protected and allowed to continue at a disturbing rate.
And I’ve argued that there is a certain type of person who becomes a cop because they are sadistic and want the power and authority and that, again, while a minority, perhaps a vanishingly small minority, the question remains: how many floating turds are an acceptable number in your swimming pool?
He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman.
I’ve argued that, with increased power comes increased responsibility and that that responsibility does not seem to materialize for all police officers. And that this is a problem.
I’ve argued that things like “warrior training” and giving more powerful weaponry and hardware.. without the increased training and discipline and consequences.. put them in a position of “playing military”… with predictable results. I have no problem being policed by the military, nor the police-police, but police-playing-military is a problem.
Yes sir, my friend….you have argued all of these brilliantly…..but you are large on perception……and this is a perception that takes no great leap. I know your true feelings….and I know where you stand but that is not what SOME people read. It is perception.
For example: there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long. Your words…no? And then you say regardless of what the statistics show, the perception is the opposite. This single statement from you changes the perception of what you meant to siding with the sentiment.
I don’t think it’s any secret that I am…… sympathetic….. to the BLM movement. Just like I am sympathetic to Me Too and gay rights and trans rights and and and.
I don’t have to agree with their most extreme interpretations of their dire situations and victimization to see that things aren’t quite equal. I don’t have to agree that they are being murdered and victimized every second of every day in every aspect of society and they are 100% innocents and it borders on the Holocaust to agree that there IS a problem.
I don’t believe – as a personal opinion – that police are murdering black people left and right with impunity. And I don’t believe it’s nearly as much about color as it is about poverty and a cultural problem and a self-perpetuating cycle of dependency and fatherlessness generated by the system and the for-profit criminal justice system and the War on Drugs and and and and and. But I do – absolutely – believe that there is still a problem here. I do believe that, ceterus paribus, (A) a black person is more likely to be killed by a cop than a white person and (B) the police do a wildly inadequate job of eliminating the bad apples from within their ranks.
And that that problem – and the blown-up perception thereof – needs to be addressed.
And, by the way, the inverse is true.
I think there’s a perception by some on the right that the protestors are rioting thugs who eagerly burn down their communities and loot Targets. And there is a perception on the left that the protestors are peaceful bordering on saintly and that it’s just a handful of opportunistic criminals and outside agitators doing the crimes. And I think this is absurd. Humans are humans. And desperate, poor, angry, scared humans will do desperate, angry, and scared things… like burn down their community and loot Targets.
But the actual proportion of “good actors to bad actors” is almost certainly 99:1. And I believe this because, if that proportion were much higher, we wouldn’t have “looting”… we’d have a full-blown race war.
By the same logic, I think the percentage of psychotic murdering cops has to be tiny.. otherwise, we would have a much bigger problem. But, again, what is the acceptable number of floating turds in your swimming pool.
but police-playing-military is a problem. Yes…this could be a problem, if it exists. I want my police to be military in given situations. But kneeling on a neck is not a military style maneuver except in combat and controlling POWs.
Henry Home, Lord Kames, Scottish jurist and scholar, wrote much about the importance of property to society. In his Essay Upon Several Subjects Concerning British Antiquities, written just after the Jacobite rising of 1745, he showed that the politics of Scotland were based not on loyalty to Kings, as the Jacobites had said, but on the royal land grants that lay at the base of feudalism, the system whereby the sovereign maintained “an immediate hold of the persons and property of his subjects”.
In Historical Law Tracts Home described a four-stage model of social evolution that became “a way of organizing the history of Western civilization”. The first stage was that of the hunter-gatherer, wherein families avoided each other as competitors for the same food. The second was that of the herder of domestic animals, which encouraged the formation of larger groups but did not result in what Home considered a true society. No laws were needed at these early stages except those given by the head of the family, clan, or tribe. Agriculture was the third stage, wherein new occupations such as “plowman, carpenter, blacksmith, stonemason” made “the industry of individuals profitable to others as well as to themselves”, and a new complexity of relationships, rights, and obligations required laws and law enforcers. A fourth stage evolved with the development of market towns and seaports, “commercial society”, bringing yet more laws and complexity but also providing more benefit. Lord Kames could see these stages within Scotland itself, with the pastoral Highlands, the agricultural Lowlands, the “polite” commercial towns of Glasgow and Edinburgh, and in the Western Isles a remaining culture of rude huts where fishermen and gatherers of seaweed eked out their subsistence living.
Let me see if I saw this right yesterday. We have a pasty white elitist Liberal telling a foreigner what black people are wanting. That explains why they have so many issues. SMH!
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Congressional Democrats endured a harrowing experience yesterday as they knelt but were unable to get back up for nearly nine minutes.
Most people thought their nine-minute kneel was intentional, but it appeared they only claimed that to save face, as they had intended on kneeling for just 30 seconds but quickly found they could not get back up.
“Help! I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!” cried Nancy Pelosi after pressing her medical alert button. “Send someone, quick!”
“Is this Nancy again? How many times have we told you running out of vodka and ice cream isn’t an emergency, Nancy?” asked the exasperated operator.
But when she clarified her predicament, rescuers were quickly sent to Capitol Hill, where they were able to find Pelosi and the rest of the elderly Democrats and help them to their feet. The Democrat leaders said they will be canceling congressional meetings for the next 12-18 months while they recover from the incident.
Sir Mathius….I presented your comments as I promised. I will cut and paste the results for you as you received comments from Denmark, Russia, Germany, England, South Korea, Mexico, Japan, France, Switzerland, and Romania. Allow me to set the stage for you as to why you received comments from so many countries and why I will cut an paste. I play an international strategy game. We are all connected at various times during this game. It is an ongoing strategy game that I have been playing for a couple years now. There is a translator built into the game so when people type in their language, it is translated so we can all converse. The translator is pretty good and the only languages that it has trouble translating are some of the dialects from Africa and some of the Baltic states. There were Chinese on here at one time but their government blocks the signal.
Because, criminal or saint, the man was murdered by those who (ostensibly) are there to protect us. You get that, right? “so, you punish the police that did it and not burn down buildings.” “We have the same problem here but we do not burn our town down. This is stupid.” “There are bad actors everywhere. but you do not punish a whole country because of stupid acts”
I mean, we don’t have to canonize the guy. He wasn’t a saint. The issue isn’t about HIM. It’s about the fact that a man was straight-up murdered by police officers. “Of course it is about him. That is all we hear over here.” “What do you mean it is not about him. His name is everywhere.” “I can’t believe that you have a funeral procession for a drug addict and felon. Those should be reserved for heroes and not dead beats.”
but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community. “What is next for America? You don’t like the food next?” “Human nature is just that, human nature. The world is not meant to live together. America, get over it.” “That is what I like about your country. The police misbehave and you have cardiac arrest. Just fire the policeman that did it. Hell, you even shut your country down when a little girl falls down a well and gets trapped.”
Tell him they’re mourning all the black men and women who have been killed over the years by what they perceive to be a cavalier attitude toward the lives of black people by the police. ” Tell your friend, Colonel, that life is unfair.” “I do not get this continuing perception that blacks are mistreated. I see the opposite in America.” “America used to be a beacon for most of us and now it appears that you are becoming petty.” “We do not have that problem over here but you would think we do now because of the crap coming from America. Grow up.”
Tell him that the President has said things like: “When you guys [police] put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]. Like, ‘Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.’ I said, ‘You can take the hand away, OK?’ ” And, maybe, just maaaaayyyyyybbbbbeeeee.. black people have a problem with that kind of attitude. “So quit creating the problems that make the police have to do that.” “We thought President Trump was going to restore strength in America. Your three previous Presidents have been tearing America down to where we scratch our heads and wonder why people over there put up with it.” “Maybe it is time for America to grow some balls again.” “Things were a lot easier around the world when America was great. Now you are acting like a school child. I know things were better here when America was strong.”
________________________
I have received about 30 replies all about the same. Some even worse. But you get the gist.
Bear in mind that I put separate remarks in its own set of quotation. Also, one thing that I did not mention in the replies because it was not part of your comments……not a single solitary one of the people on this venue that I am on thinks that BLM is legitimate. I thought that was interesting.
“We thought President Trump was going to restore strength in America. Your three previous Presidents have been tearing America down to where we scratch our heads and wonder why people over there put up with it.”
This person is more aware of reality than at least half of Americans.
You left out this
“Things were a lot easier around the world when America was great. Now you are acting like a school child. I know things were better here when America was strong.”
“
Up here in the New Yawk area it is often said by us white Middle Class folk about people we grew up with that they would either wind up in jail or as cops. I think recent events demonstrate the tongue in cheek accuracy of that statement.
What is worse, when cops are in a group. They act in a manner no different than any other “gang” what is normally not OK suddenly becomes OK. I remember Joseph Wambaugh’s “The Choirboys” (he was about the best chronicler of police stupidity during the ’70’s) in which a group of LA cops get together on and off duty for a little private “fun” which goes bad…..
Someone clued me into this little Dallas event from a few years back where apparently another group of fun loving cops killed the red haired white guy using the same methodology. Still NOT resolved, probably will NEVER be. After all, the “vic” was white.
I was clued into the Tony Timpa case recently as well. Terrible what happened.
The case that really gets my blood boiling is the Breonna Taylor shooting. I am 99.9% against the ‘no knock’ warrants, and this is exactly why. Why are not more people protesting this death? Why was Breonna not given a national funeral? She, apparently, was a hard working person, was in her own home, not on drugs, not committing any crime and now she is dead. In this case, I could actually understand why people might get little violent towards the police. I wouldn’t agree with it, but I could at least understand it.
But the guy that was high on fentanyl, just committed a crime, resisted arrest and was a convicted VIOLENT felon gets treated like a hero. Ridiculous!!
Let’s also not forget that, after barging into the house in the middle of the night (allegedly) without announcing themselves, her boyfriend shot – quite understandably – at the intruders and hit one in the leg.
And he was charged with attempted murder!
(charges were later dropped, but holy shit, what kind of flaming bullshit is that!)
Rick, the VERY first case that I remember….. This NYT article from ’71 is basically full of crap, at least the government’s side of the story’. Turned out to be a no knock warrant> Guy is in the tub, wife is naked , he thought he was being robbed and the ATF clowns were playing “Omaha Beach”. he pulled a loaded 1860 Colt navy on them. 1860!
Correct spelling of his name, Kenyon Ballew in case you want to follow it up. Ultimately exonerated, he was left brain damaged and partially paralyzed. Good work ATF, a precursor of Ruby Ridge and Waco!
There IS an NRA link which is pretty damned accurate especially, if I remember, the government’s use of “stool pigeons” who would sell Mom out to climb out of teh hole they are in.
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah.
When the shit does hit the fan, then they “are” an occupying force but when the crisis passes, that thinking must pass too.
I am going to try and dig up a piece done a few years back by the local Washington Heights NY cops on what they did to get the community working with them in sync. It is incredibly instructive and explains quite well just why NYC force is 51% white, 24% Hispanic and the remainder equal parts Asian and Black.
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah. Precisely and I think this is the point Mathius is making. However, I will disagree with you on one thing.., I have no problem with the police having armored vehicles, body armor, and weapons that match what is on the street.
When the shit does hit the fan, then they “are” an occupying force but when the crisis passes, that thinking must pass too. Now…this statement is something I can get my arms around.
Not sure about the APC’s. Ditto with head to toe body armor in a “normal” situation and I am absolutely, positively totally against head to toe tattoo’s. The “almost” psychologist, with 47 credits, in me thinks there is something inherently awry with someone who does that.
Yes, even today in the military…..no tattoo’s are to be visible while wearing the uniform. I am seeing that individuals you have tattoo’s around their necks like some Mayan culture are being ushered out of the military. Same with piercings….including the women. No ear jewelry nose, tongue…..I requested that I be assigned to check for nipple piercings but I have not received an answer…..damn.
I don’t know that I would WANT to see that! The mug shot of Mayor DeBlasio’s daughter when she was busted protesting had her wearing a nose ring. That is a pretty weird. One would think it was some masochistic thing relating to being a “slave”. Told ya I had 47 credits of psych back in the days when it actually tried to be a science before it became a political cult.
Which reminds me, the author of the Harry Potter books is socially DEAD (and may also literally be on a hit list) because last week she came out saying a transgender “woman” cannot be a real woman. Harry himself, the actor playing the role, condemned her for her bigotry with the comment, “They are every bit a real woman that a real woman is”.
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah.
I guess my answer to the Police problem is while supporting the good cops but when one goes as far afield as these clowns, they should NEVER see the light of day again. A two tier justice system? Nah, change the laws to reflect that with the enhanced authority comes enhanced responsibility and in some cases culpability.
It was a HUGE mistake to charge the two rookie cops with a crime. Any dummy out there knows there was no way they could have intervened. Gonna gum up the prosecution in one way or the other. Offer complete immunity for testimony.
I implore ALL of you to take the time to watch this and pass it on. This is how it is supposed to be done. That which separates the good cops from the jerks. AND how we change society.
Pull seems to be the logical answer if your goal is to save lives, but honestly, if I were really in that situation, I’m not sure if I could do something that would end another persons life, even if it was saving other people.
All this talk about defunding police departments reminds me of meeting that new neighbor who tells you that he has always had problems with his neighbors everywhere he lived. Then later you realize the reason he always had those problems is because he causes them.
As far as the BLM demands, maybe they should take a long look in the mirror and realize that a vast majority of high, violent crime areas are black neighborhoods. The solution isn’t police reform, it’s black reform. Since most are afraid to say this, I will.
1. Children of fatherless households tend to perform worse in school.
2. Children of fatherless households tend to become more delinquent.
3. Children of fatherless households tend to use drugs at a higher rate.
4. Children of fatherless households tend to be more violent.
5. Children who perform worse in school, are more delinquent, use more drugs, and/or are more violent tend to commit more crimes.
6. People who commit more crimes tend to get arrested more often.
7. People who are arrested more often tend to get locked up more often, and for longer periods.
8. People who are locked up generally cannot perform well as fathers to any children they might have (either as fathers or financial providers).
9. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
10. High crime areas get policed more.
11. An area which is policed more will tend to result in more arrests.
12. More arrests will tend to result in more people going to jail.
13. More people in jail tends to mean more poverty.
14. More poverty tends to mean more crime.
15. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
16. Welfare destroys weakens the incentive to work.
17. Less work tends to mean more welfare is needed.
18. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
19. John Ehrlichman, Richard Nixon’s aide on domestic affairs, said the following in 1996: “the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.”
————-
20. The BLM movement has SOME legitimate grievances.
Mostly true and great reasons to explain the NEED for serious reform in the black communities.
BLM have zero until they can clean up black lives so they can matter more to each other.
End the negative patterns, save lives through prosperity and self respect.
BLM have zero until they can clean up black lives so they can matter more to each other.
So it’s just fine – there’s NO legitimate grievance – that a cop murdered George Floyd?
I just want to be clear here.
MY POINT is that there are two sides to this coin. There are HUGE and TRAGIC and serious generational issues with the cultures in these communities. But there are ALSO serious issues with the police and the way the police respond to and treat members of these communities. There are ALSO problems with the way we (society at large) discriminate and invest (or rather, don’t invest) in these communities. With the inferior schools and in
There are nasty feedback cycles left and right with poverty begetting less education begetting less opportunity begetting more poverty. With crime begetting arrests begetting poverty begetting crime. With fatherlessness begetting delinquent children begetting more crime begetting more fatherlessness. With harsher policing begetting less opportunity begetting more poverty begetting more criminality begetting harsher policing. And so on. And round and round she goes.
You seem to be insisting that we only address the cultural aspects within these communities while completely discounting, writing off, and ignoring anything and everything else.
John Ehrlichman, Richard Nixon’s aide on domestic affairs, said the following in 1996: “the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.”
He was the aide to the President of the United States when they started the War on Drugs…. seems to me that his recollection of the thinking at the time might have some value…
The first has long ago been debunked. Your a big boy, find it yourself.
The second is simply common sense. Bad cops, like bad teachers are protected by liberal unions.
I did post the latest FBI stats, Sir Mathius, but you chose to use a per capita basis, which we both know is not an accurate picture of anything, to disprove something. If a statistician wants to prove something, anything, they can manipulate the figures to show anything you want. I can use the same FBI figures to make a per capita statement that a black person is 50% more likely to commit a crime than any other race.
(A) A Giant Hawk circles over the Mathius farm looks down and sees his 3 chickens, 2 pigs, and 1 goat. Over the next week, the hawk swoops down, (Rodan style), and nabs a chicken, then a pig, and then a goat. So Mathius assumes that if 33 1/3% of his chickens were taken, 50% of his pigs were taken, and then 100% of his goats were taken, that the Giant Hawk will naturally attack a goat more often, then attack the pigs next, and then attack the chickens less because the per capita percentages are higher. I reject this form of assumption because it is not reliable. The hawk was hungry.
(B) NO…the police do NOT do an adequate job of “policing” their own. This is well established and does not take a set of percentages or anything to figure out.
Statistical analysis would tell you No to the first., Gross numbers are deceptive since FBI stats show most crime is done by a specific minority. Ergo, most police confrontations will be with that minority. Further ergo MOST killings will be in that minority community. For example in 2019 somewhere between 9 and 15 unarmed blacks were killed by cops. but 25 whites were killed. However, blacks represent slightly over 12 % of teh population and whites over 61%. Proportionately MORE blacks are killed than whites!
Cops do a lousy job of policing themselves, doctors do a lousy job of policing themselves, lawyers do a lousy job of policing themselves. Generally speaking I would assume MOST tribes do a poor job of policing themselves. Certainly the folks at the Pulitzer committee do!
I’m just lacking that “statistical analysis”… I completely agree that it’s complicated, which is why I asked “all things being equal.”
I suspect the answer is much like the “wage gap” for women.. if you discount the CHOICES women make (eg which jobs, and taking time off to raise children, etc), then it nearly vanishes. I’ve seen a lot of analysis on this, and I seem to remember the answer is that, controlling for these kinds of things, the wage gap reduces to something like 95 cents on the dollar. Which is much better than the bogus 79/100 they like to throw around.
But that doesn’t change the fact that there’s still something wrong there, right? There still IS a wage gap… it’s NOT equal pay for equal work.
I’d SUGGEST (without proof) that, while the kinds of claims being thrown around by BLM et al are almost certainly insane, that there is still SOME bias in the system… maybe just a few extra percent, I don’t know.. but something.
University of Washington study found that cops did not shoot black bad guys as fast as they shot white bad guys in field testing. The added time of hesitation for black targets was enough to get the cops shot dead.
For some reason I always thought Gotham City was lampooning NYC. Apparently all this time they meant it to be Seattle. No Batman here but definitely a whole lot of Jokers.
Well, They didn’t use gas, so that lie can rest now. Second, the Crats wouldn’t have the courage to push back protestors who are throwing things at them (which is not peaceful).
Second, the Crats wouldn’t have the courage to push back protestors who are throwing things at them (which is not peaceful).
Just to be clear here.. I want to make sure I understand your argument….
The legal peaceful protesters who got driven off from their legal protesters for the President’s virtue signaling bullshit photo op campaign ad are “not peaceful” because, when the police showed up and aggressively drove them off, a handful of people within the crowd (allegedly) threw water bottles. And this was so threatening that it justified pepper balls, rubber bullets, etc?
Maybe the liberals aren’t the ones lacking courage here.
Seattle leadership nonexistent. Another glaring example of weak Crat leadership, this will not help them in November.
Black reform needs to happen and the ballot box is a good area. Dump the Crat plantation masters and bring in someone who can help. The Crats have had decades and decades and failed. After 8 years of weak kneed Obama, it should be very clear that Crats cannot represent with success. How many times will Crat cities burn before people see the light through the fires?
I fully expect crime too rise in Crat cities. Cops will be cleaning up the mess, but I don’t expect much in the form of policing or investigating. It may be awhile for that to come back.
If the laws change and cops can then be sued, There may as well not be police. While that isn’t such a bad thing where I live, it would be chaos in cities and Burbs.
Nancy Pelosi wants to remove statues in the Capital who were Confederates. Nancy, they were Democrats, just like you. Be careful, you’ll be next.
Joe Biden has a horrible history with Blacks. After all the burning, looting and destruction, I don’t see Joe getting the black vote, even with a black female VP choice. I guess a whole lot of black folks will be turning white in November when the vote for Trump 😛
Now, the really big question in Seattle will be, exactly WHERE will Madame Guillotine be installed to deal with the people’s justice coming from the People’s courts?
In New York City, I originally thought that the machine would be in City Hall Park but on further reflection and as tribute to the French Revolution I suggest, Native Peoples Circle, (formerly Columbus Circle) at 59th Street after the statue is toppled.
And YOU all laughed when I said “Occupy Wall Street” was a dry run!
To Sir Mathius: I did not like Hamilton because (a) I do not like rap, (2) It was a “black” portrayal of early America and I would view that the same as a “White” portrayal of Roots.” Like an elevator in a outhouse. It did not belong.
Now, I did not see Hamilton on broadway…..I saw it from the confines of my home on a public channel. I watched it because there were glowing reviews that I read about it being a musical. I was very disappointed. I also know about Lin-Manuel Miranda and his satire and I understand that New York likes satire. But, a black George Washington? James Madison? Not to mention a dancing, strutting, jump around black Thomas Jefferson? I know it was supposed to be art and satire and would expect nothing else from New York, but this was over the top for me. I think the story line was lost. However, it is what it is. I am surprised that the run did not last longer. In Dallas, much to my surprise, it was a major flop.
Now, you asked what I did like…..I have only been to New York twice. I saw Les Miserables , Cats, The Music Man, 42nd St., and Amadeus. All on broadway. The order in which I liked the plays were…(1) Cats, (2) 42nd St, (3) The Music Man, (4) Amadeus, (5) Les Miserables. I am very partial to musicals but Hamilton missed the mark for me.
Funny fact about New York when it rains……….cannot find a cabby anywhere. We grabbed a horse drawn carriage and sat under a blanket and we beat every cabby to the theater. I tipped the driver a little extra because I know that he made several “short cuts” to the theater that, as he put it, were not Kosher. And it was in a rain.
But, a black George Washington? James Madison? Not to mention a dancing, strutting, jump around black Thomas Jefferson?
I was mostly thrown by a large black Marquis de Lafayette.
Not sure why, but that threw me a lot more than anyone else.
Fun anecdote about the good Marquis: Lafayette once spent 10 days at Monticello with Jefferson. After he departed, Jefferson had to replenish nearly all of the red wines in his cellar.
The other night I watched “Tropic Thunder” again. A great premise and a 2/3rd’s great comedy.
Now, Robert Downy’s portrayal of a white Australian actor playing a black sergeant in the movie about a supposed real event was magnificent! He had it NAILED.
My question, despite the movie being a comedy with Downey’s over the top performance as being key do we have to “lose” it because Downy was white?
Hey Colonel! Didja like General Miley’s comments on “I should not have gone to Lafayette Square with the President”? Can his ASS, NOW!
Even Fox is using him by saying that he represents a “serious” break that Trump has with the military. What he represents is a “political” general groomed over the years by the Obama Administration and jumped over others to achieve the rank he has.
This Miley character is EVERY BIT as dangerous as Burt Lancaster’s James Matoon Scott in “Seven Days in May”.
I did not care for his comments but his comments are taken out of context by the media and everyone else. His reason for the apology was not the fact that he disagrees with the policies of Trump. The media, as usual, has turned this around. He apologized for it because it gave the impression among many that the military was involved in internal politics. There never should have been a military person involved in this while wearing the uniform. I did not like his appearance there because it made the military seem involved in politics and that is a no no……but he is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It would have been perfectly acceptable if he had been there in a civilian suit.
He has quite an exemplary career record. Several of his commands have been major combat units and he is a master jumper, CIB, French parachutist, 5th Special Forces ( my outfit ), 82nd Airborne…etc.
His mistake was appearing in uniform….that is all.
well, 3 of the 9 are true……Clapper and Allen and Crozier. You will have to point me to two other statements, however…..the one on the Joint Chiefs and the last one about his knowledge of offense and defense.
well, thank you for the link. First problem I see, it is being written in a book. That, alone, makes this suspect to me.
He called Afghanistan a “loser war” and told generals assembled there that “you don’t know how to win anymore.” Why is this wrong? I happen to agree.
Mattis, a former Marine Corps general who still remains popular among members of the military, stepped down from his Cabinet post about nine months later, citing differences with Trump over support for foreign allies. So, he had differences with Trump. Does that make Mattis right? No, he had differences and took his toys and went home. I know generals. They do not like to be questioned.
During the course of the meeting, the authors wrote, Trump also suggested charging “rent” to South Korea for U.S. military forces positioned there and suggested that NATO countries owed America direct payments totaling hundreds of millions of dollars You of all people, should like this one. Is there something wrong with this comment?
But the book authors said the incident led to a strained relationship between top generals and Trump, and the eventual departure of several high-ranking officials who were upset over the administration’s policies. This is as it should be. If some of the general’s did not like his policies….then leave and they did. Would you expect Trump to change his ways simply because a general does not like his policies?
So, this is about a book where even Mattis will not comment on it. Reached by Military Times, Mattis declined comment on the new book.
it isn’t a race problem. It is a government problem.
Why can’t it be about BOTH?
Our governments, in our names but without our explicit approval, have given law enforcement in this country far too much power over us. From confiscatory civil forfeiture laws to ridiculous speeding fines to $85 parking tickets to byzantine laws of every flavor; if the cops want to charge you with something that will cost you money and often your freedom, and sometimes your life, they can. Because that parking ticket can easily turn into hundreds of dollars, and then a failure-to-appear means a warrant, and a warrant may result in an arrest with guns drawn.
Can I get a hallelujah?
I obey the law (speeding excepted)
::innocent expression::
The cops who block traffic while getting a cup of coffee, or speed around like maniacs when there is no rush, or roust idiotic teenagers, and a thousand other examples of petty exercise of the state’s coercive power
Oh, I get so pissed when I see a cop turn without signaling.
It’s literally the easiest thing in the world to do, and keeps everyone safer, and I would get a $200 ticket for it and maybe points. But they just do it with impunity.
GAAAaaaAAAaAAaAAAa!!!aaaA!!!!111!!!!!
And seemingly like clockwork, whenever there is a critical mass of events that pushes the majority to question the way law enforcement is structured and trained and used, along comes a lunatic response from the hard Left that pushes many of us firmly back into law enforcement’s corner.
Maybe… but shouldn’t you be responsible for your own opinions? Why does the hard left’s insanity mean you have to take up a racially polar opposite view?
If they say “defund the police,” you don’t have to automatically – reflexively – take the position that “the police are perfect saints and nothing at all should change.” The argument can be between “defund the police” and “serious overhaul of the police” which is completely reasonable. And it’s an argument that “serious overhaul” would win. And that would result in a benefit for everyone.
It’s not really “taking personal responsibility” if you blame the left for “pushing you into law enforcement’s corner” when you know you shouldn’t be in their corner and wouldn’t be, except because you (the royal “you”) feel some need to oppose the left. Sounds like just another “Derangement Syndrome.”
Imagine a measured and rational response to recent events…we would be having one of those “national conversations” about policing in America,
Maybe… but maybe every time the “hard left” has tried to have this argument they get shut down? Maybe they’ve been trying to be calm and reasoned for a long time and haven’t gotten anywhere?
Maybe when you do something like try to kneel during the Anthem, the President of the United States calls you a “son of a bitch” at his rallies?
Maybe.. just maybe… the “hard left” has BEEN trying to have this debate and the country has refused to engage in it until they just hit their breaking point?
Maybe, at some point, given their perception of the situation, they saw a video of a subdued black man get murdered in broad daylight by police and just hit their limit? Honestly, while I don’t completely agree with all things BLM, I find it very hard to blame them for their perceptions and reactions. If anything, honestly, I think they’ve showed remarkable restraint. Frankly, I’m surprised we’re not in the middle of a full-blown race war.
“They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
I motion that this be made the official motto of the Democratic Party.
I have no problem saying that racism is a part of the problem. That isn’t what is being promoted. Systemic racism is what I’m being asked to buy into and promote. So they can make ridiculous demands. Not gonna happen.
While we look at what cops do that pisses us off, perhaps we should give them credit for all the good things they do, many things we can’t or don’t want to do for ourselves. Seems only fair.
First, most people aren’t claiming the police are saints. Second, I’m not taking up for the police because the left’s against them. I’m simply refusing to support and promote the insanity of the arguments and demands that come with them. You might notice that both parties are coming up with bills to rein in police power. We’ll have to wait and see what they say.
And maybe every time the hard left tries to introduce this subject, the same insane accusations and demands come with them.
That isn’t what is being promoted. Systemic racism is what I’m being asked to buy into and promote. So they can make ridiculous demands. Not gonna happen.
It’s hard to say “what’s being promoted” since this isn’t really an “organized” thing. There are no “leaders” here. There’s no Committee to issue demands and set the agenda.
So some people, no doubt, thing this is on par with Southern slavery. And others think it’s up there with the Pogroms. But I’d be willing to bet that most of them just think it’s a shitty situation and they’re fed up.
As for “systemic racism,” that just means it’s “in the system.” That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s ubiquitous or speak to how pronounced it is. Just that that cycle of criminal justice seems to be set up in such a way that there’s a SYSTEMATIC effect on black people. And, frankly, I think this is hard to argue against. That there’s SOME there there.
While we look at what cops do that pisses us off, perhaps we should give them credit for all the good things they do, many things we can’t or don’t want to do for ourselves
This is actually one of the things “they” want.
They want to split off “cops” from many of the other services they provide.
For example, any kind of call related to an overdose or drug use to the cops is going to bring cops on alert, looking for criminals, when maybe what is needed are medics.
Similarly, mental health issues are sent to the cops (and then the jails) when they really should be given to some kind of case-worker and then a psych ward.
First, most people aren’t claiming the police are saints. Second, I’m not taking up for the police because the left’s against them.
I was being hyperbolic.. sorry if that wasn’t clear. I know text (especially the walls of it I throw up) can lose that kind of nuance.
And I certainly wasn’t accusing YOU, personally, of such a thing… rather objecting to the article’s position. The author says “along comes a lunatic response from the hard Left that pushes many of us firmly back into law enforcement’s corner.”
That as much as admits that “since you said it X, “maybe of us” now firmly insist that it’s the polar opposite of X.”
I’m simply refusing to support and promote the insanity of the arguments and demands that come with them.
Seems reasonable.
You might notice that both parties are coming up with bills to rein in police power. We’ll have to wait and see what they say.
My guess is that, at the federal level, the left’s will be absurdist utopian pipe dreams and the right’s will be toothless and do-nothing.
At the local and state level, we can expect some states to completely tear down the police departments and rebuild them from scratch. Some will up the community services they offer. Some will do nothing. And some, contrarian, locations will double-down on “tough on crime” just to stick it to the libs.
There will be absolutely no movement whatsoever on fixing the fact that there are so many laws that we’re all criminals and the police and arrest virtually anyone at any time.
And maybe every time the hard left tries to introduce this subject, the same insane accusations and demands come with them.
Maybe.. but I don’t remember any crazy demands when Kapernac (sp?) was taking his knee. But I sure do remember the apoplexy from the right.
Put yourself in the shoes of the left… that’s a pretty mild, peaceful, way of protesting. To make his point that there’s a problem and it needs to be addressed… and then to see the amount of hate and vitriol and apoplexy from the right..? To be called a son of a bitch by the President of the United States?!? Put yourself in their shoes.. do you feel that their milder approach does anything? Maybe you’d feel it’s time to go big? And then maybe, at least, you’ll get some of what you want.
Put yourself in the shoes of the left… that’s a pretty mild, peaceful, way of protesting. To make his point that there’s a problem and it needs to be addressed… and then to see the amount of hate and vitriol and apoplexy from the right..? To be called a son of a bitch by the President of the United States?!? Put yourself in their shoes.. do you feel that their milder approach does anything? Maybe you’d feel it’s time to go big? And then maybe, at least, you’ll get some of what you want.
This sure sounds like a justification to me….
As to Kaepernick……You are a man of stats and you like to manipulate them….look at his stats……..he is a second rate quarterback at best.
I would not hire him for three reasons…(1) He is a second rate quarterback, as I said. I would rather hire a top college quarterback that has more years left, (2) I do not like his attitude when the NFL did Kow Tow to him and set up a practice session just for him and he snubbed it to set up his own, and (3) I do not agree with his politics and personally feel that it affects his playing quality.
Does anybody see anything wrong with this statement?
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol of racism and division in this country, having flown above the pro-slavery Confederate States of America during the Civil War.
Two things…does this imply that there were some non pro slavery states and the other thing, the Confederate battle flag did not fly over any state, save one….Georgia.
So, if the Battle flag….is the big controversy…..would the state flag that flew during this time period be the same controversy? The main Texas flag that flew over Texas during this time did not incorporate the Battle Flag at all as did several of the State flags….so, as a matter of compromise, would anyone find a State Flag during this time offensive……or should we just erase history as if it never existed.
The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans’ groups.
Yea… all of that is great, but it doesn’t argue against what you wrote…
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol of racism […] in this country,
Like it or not, it IS a symbol of racism…. to many.
That YOU don’t see it that way doesn’t make it not a symbol of racism… to THEM.
Much like, if you are Hindu a Swastika might not have any racist implications, but to others, it very much is a symbol of racism.
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol […] and division in this country
Hard to see how it’s not seen as a symbol of division in this country.. it’s the… battle flag.. what “battle,” you might ask? Well, the battle AGAINST the United States of America.
But I DO see it as a flag of division…. and again.. the question isn’t really “what is intended” or “what do the people flying the flag think” but “is it a symbol of”… and in the minds of many, the answer to that is “yes.”
having flown above the pro-slavery Confederate States of America during the Civil War.
D13 asserts it was flown over pro-slavery states.
To my knowledge, it was.. was it not?
D13 argues against this that it was never formally adopted, nor was it flown over statehouses. But that is not a refutation of the thing with which I agreed.
——————-
I think, more generally, you have to see that the flag is – more or less – a symbol of the South’s rebellion against the United States. (and of them getting their asses handed to them).
Whatever OTHER associations you attach to the flag, at the end of the day, was the flag NOT a flag of the PRO-CONFEDERACY fighting a war AGAINST the United States? Does that not, by definition, make it an enemy flag?
——————-
As I may have mentioned, however, I don’t give a single flying fuck. If people want to fly the flag of the losing team, and imagine that there WEREN’T racist drivers of the Civil War (as distinct from claims that the war was “about” slavery rather than slavery being a component of why they were fighting)… well, I just don’t care.
But, by GOD, I don’t want to hear anyone flying this flag gripe about Millenials and their “participation trophies” ever again.
Touchy subject for you…….for someone who does not give a whatever……but the battle flag is not the subject matter,,,,,I asked the question of state flags that flew during the same time period that have no reference to the battle flag.
I, personally, do not care about the Battle flag…..Texas did not fly it except at Galveston and it did not last long. I am looking at the symbolic reasoning about this. Should we, as Americans, hate the Union Jack of England? It was an enemy flag. It is only a symbol.
But here is what actually made my Dr Pepper go flat. First, I will have to say I am not much of a NASCAR fan……but, because of these protesting issues, people wish to attack something that happened in 1860-65 under the pretense of this police brutality thing. So, a lot of things are going to have to stop because SOME people are offended. But, back to my original thing. Now, blacks see the battle flag offensive and it has been removed from NASCAR tracks. BUT, now they want another symbol to replace it. A BLM flag. Both are symbols and I find the BLM flag just as offensive. But let us go a little further. The race cars used to be painted in a variety of ways….some with confederate flags. So, they are going to take them off and then, all of a sudden, there is a BLM car that can fly its flag and be painted as such. I see this as hypocrisy. Do not want controversial things on cars…great…I am on board. But make it even…..BLM is a violent movement (my perception, and I am entitled to it)…so what is the difference……actually I am not wanting an answer…..just blowing off a little steam.
By the way….you must take down that reference you made to Gone With the Wind…..that is now considered racist and has been removed from HBO….along with Sleeping Beauty. Sigh.
Should we, as Americans, hate the Union Jack of England? It was an enemy flag. It is only a symbol.
A little bit of Apples and Oranges here.. the Confederacy existed ONLY as a seditious bunch of states at war with the United States of America.
ONLY.
We have a long history with Brittain, and it includes a great deal more than just a war. But it’s not like we’ve been at war for our entire mutual history.
So, they are going to take them off and then, all of a sudden, there is a BLM car that can fly its flag and be painted as such. I see this as hypocrisy.
If you take this AT FACE VALUE, then it’s easy and not hypocritical at all..
They’ve banned a symbol of racism. They’ve endorsed a symbol of demanding equality.
AT FACE VALUE, there really isn’t and shouldn’t be any problem here.
But we all know the world just isn’t so simple.
BLM flag just as offensive.
A) BLM has a flag?
B) I don’t understand why it’s offensive to you? The correct demand is that Black Lives Matter… how is that in any way an offensive idea? It’s not that they matter MORE or they matter to the exclusion of anything else.. .but, really, is it so crazy and offensive to suggest that they matter?
BLM is a violent movement (my perception, and I am entitled to it)
I disagree.
I think it’s a big movement, a disorganized, decentralized movement. And, like any such thing, there are going to be bad actors and opportunists. But I think the fact that tens of thousands of people are protesting and there aren’t thousands of dead while people is proof that either (A) these people have no idea how to fight or (B) the bad actors are in the vast minority and that it’s somewhat unfair to paint the whole with that brush.
actually I am not wanting an answer…..just blowing off a little steam.
Apparently over here we can takeover Government/City land and declare it as our own. I didn’t know this before…..buuuut now that I do…
“I declare all Washington State Forests and Parks to be mine, and I demand that people bring me food and water. From this moment forth It shall be known as the No Dumbass Zone.”
Yes, and while we’re taking over, I’d like to claim the NW 1/4 of the Lower Peninsula. And it won’t be “papers, please”, it will be ” Where’s the beef?”
Here is some of the problem…….I watched an interview with this Lady Antebellum band last night (I have never heard of them before) and they explained that the name was changed because of its association with slavery. They were then asked how it was associated with slavery. One of the band members admitted that he did not know but was told that it needed changing.
So, I looked it up and here is what I found. Lady Antebellum is a country group formed in Nashville, Tennessee in 2006. … The name Antebellum comes from when the group were photographing “antebellum” homes. The antebellum (‘pre-war’) architectural style describes the large plantation homes in the American South.
The name originally referred to architecture. And now, it is associated with “plantations” which has now become a nasty word because, somehow, plantation is completely associated with slavery.
I particularly liked the following quote. That’s the major problem with the antebellum aesthetic: It was built on the backs of slave labor. While the original term wasn’t offensive, “antebellum” as we use it today glorifies a painful period in our history when Black people were enslaved by white people. It’s important to remember that architecture, fashion, and even language don’t live in a vacuum. They’re contextual and evolve along with our society. Elements of our past we may have thought acceptable or even romanticized at one time have been revealed as problematic today. That includes the term antebellum.
What a crock of shit. So, I guess the next name to be erased will be Colonial style homes. But let us take a look at something that is being conveniently overlooked and blamed on the “white” community.
legal slave owner in American history was a black tobacco farmer named Anthony Johnson. SHOCK!!!!
William Ellison was a very wealthy black plantation owner and cotton gin manufacturer who lived in South Carolina (not North Carolina). According to the 1860 census (in which his surname was listed as “Ellerson”), he owned 63 black slaves, making him the largest of the 171 black slaveholders in South Carolina
There were approximately 319,599 free blacks in the United States in 1830. Approximately 13.7 per cent of the total black population was free. A significant number of these free blacks were the owners of slaves. The census of 1830 lists 3,775 free Negroes who owned a total of 12,760 slaves.
Brutal black-on-black slavery was common in Africa for thousands of years. The phenomenon of human beings enslaving other human beings goes back thousands of years, but not just among blacks, and not just in Africa.
While there had been a slave trade within Africa prior to the arrival of Europeans, the massive European demand for slaves and the introduction of firearms radically transformed west and central African society. A growing number of Africans were enslaved for petty debts or minor criminal or religious offenses or following unprovoked raids on unprotected villages. An increasing number of religious wars broke out with the goal of capturing slaves. European weapons made it easier to capture slaves.
Well, obviously we can fill volumes with slavery issues. It was bad and it is bad. But it was not and is not a “whites” only problem.
Now, just so all of you can say YEA!..I am done with this talk. We have to live with snowflakes, so we may as well figure out how to get along with them.
But Colonel, facts that don’t fit the narrative will be denied by the snowflakes. Truth don’t matter to the Left, just their feelings.
There is a new thread posted.
The English also sold Irish, Scots and prisoners into slavery. Many others indentured themselves for passage to the colonies. Many of these white slaves were worked to death. The oldest branch of my family came here in 1710. They were German Palatines who were camped on the Hudson and made to work in the forests to make pitch for the Navy. The effort failed. They British promised them sustenance but nearly starved them to death. Some moved away from the river and treated with the Mohawks to settle in the woods and start there own communities and farms. In about 1725, the remainder were given land along the Mohawk River thus to act as a buffer between the French and English colonies. These are the people who suffered through the bloody Iroquois raids during the Revolution. Upstate NY was severely depopulated during the war.
Mathius, in response to your two questions and your continued discussion on systemic racism with the police, I’d like to offer the following links and commentary.
I know WSJ requires a subscription (which is puzzling, or maybe a puzzlement, because I don’t have a subscription. Sometimes I can access this article and sometimes I can’t.) Anyway I will copy/past some of the points of the article in case you don’t have access.
“A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.”
Did you catch that? Crime and suspect behavior determine most police actions. I mean, who woulda thought that??
“The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites…there were 7,407 black homicide victims…those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.” 0.1%!?
By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.
The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency and the pattern is repeating itself.
And I also assume that you are aware of these statistics.
“In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.”
Now I have two questions.
A) Why can’t we teach African-Americans that if you break the law, you will (most of the time) get arrested? Instead of pretending that the criminal is the victim?
B) Why can’t we teach Afican-Americans that if you resist arrest, you have a significantly higher risk of getting hurt/killed? Instead of pretending the violent criminal is the victim?
I linked a Rubin Report video of Coleman Hughes. He pointed out that the children of black Jamaican immigrants are visually indistinguishable from American blacks but are far more successful in our society. They suffer from the same level of discrimination but have higher education levels and earn over 50% more than American blacks. It is not discrimination that is holding them back but the black culture which they can control..
I actually know a woman that emigrated from Jamaica. She got an entry level job at the local hospital while attending college for a nursing degree. She graduated nursing school and almost immediately started working as an RN at the same hospital. She continued her education and is now a nurse practitioner. She is a very nice woman with a good work ethic, good personality, and very intelligent. She has not, to my knowledge, had any problems with the police. She also isn’t out breaking laws and resisting arrest. So I can, and do, believe that it is a cultural problem.
By the way, I’m glad to see that someone clicks on my links… I wonder sometimes if I’m just wasting my time with them. I always click on your links…..never miss them.
Just out on the news……..rape, robbery, and theft has increased 300 percent in the autonomous zone. Shop owners have closed and boarded their shops because they are being extorted for protection. A lot of the residents are claiming that they have to show ID’s to get past the “People” guards.
But according to the mayor, taking over 6 city blocks and a police precinct station is not an insurrection but a “block party” of sorts and that the 1st amendment protects their rights to take over.
Now, I wonder what has happened to the arms lockers in the precinct.
I further wonder if their “border guards” are armed with the shotguns and such from the police cars and weapons locker. Inquiring minds want to know.
I am still trying to get a handle on the fact that these folks are supposed to be against law and order but they have created their own form of law and order. This same group that does not want ID checks and such are checking Id’s.
Hypocrites one and all. I would cut the power and water, set up a blockade and starve them out. No one in. All those that come out would be arrested for whatever crimes they can be charged with. Unfortunately, I heard the mayor had moved in portapotties.
I hear the police cleared out the evidence room and other records before they abandoned the building. I assume they took the arms with them. Sounds preplanned. The police chief has stated it was not a police decision.
I have friends who worked at the Seattle East Precinct, now known (due to vandalism) as The Seattle’s People Department, and they were instructed to clear the entire precinct out. To my knowledge all evidence, equipment, computers, etc. have been removed from the building.
There is word that if you have different opinions than the citizens of CHAZ they will use violent, i’m sorry I meant peaceful, force to by “love taps” according to their warlord Raz. These “love taps” have been seen as what look like a beat down, but we know they are friendly people so we must agree they are “love taps”. In addition to this, the citizens of CHAZ also have a list of demands for the city of Seattle, which don’t seem racist at all (eye roll). They have also demanded, I mean kindly asked, for local business’ with the borders of CHAZ to pay a fee to continue operating.
So we have a group of people who have taken over a part of our city, where not all are welcome, and have a list of demands to give it back. Yet our Mayor says “Lawfully gathering and expressing First Amendment rights, demanding we do better as a society, and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. It’s patriotism,” – Durkan
I know i’m new to this, but someone PLEASE tell me how this is not an act of terrorism and extortion?
Daughter left you a link on how to fix this moderation issue. I tried to follow but didn’t succeed. Will have more time later if you can’t do it.
There is an option that allows anyone’s comments to just pass through for approval if they have been approved once before. I thought that is what we have but links do seem to be a trigger for the “spam” to take over.
Let me know what you find. Will have more time around Monday or Tuesday.
“One of the active debates we had over the past week was about the use of the word “looting” to describe the destruction of property,” Pearlstein said. “The feeling among the black journalists at The Los Angeles Times who frankly educated the rest of us to the fact that looting had a pejorative racist connotation and that comparing it to the kind of behavior of the police and the kind of behavior that we witnessed really was a false equivalency and yet it was one that we were making as journalists if you picked up a copy of our paper.”National Association of Black Journalists president Dorothy Tucker called the conversation “interesting,” adding that the word “riot” falls in a “similar” category as the word “looting.”
So, now, when the riots and rampage start, they are no longer looting or rioting….they are “relieving the rightful owners of their property” and “gathering in social confrontation”.
Wow….and they want me to be sympathetic to their cause.
There is a constant effort to redefine the language so the opposition is constantly off balance and fighting the wrong thing. Marriage and gender are two things that redefined. Now it is looting and rioting which is justified release of tensions for decades of mistreatment. This a long with the push to genuflect before them and to confess our white privilege will continue unless we fight back. See Dan Bongino’s podcast today. He would not say what happened but was clearly upset. They are obviously going after his family. They are trying to defund Tucker Carlson as well. I loved his Chaz parody last night. I am torn between two strategies, 1) send in the 82nd airborne or 2) let the locals solve it and show the rest of it how bad it can get. Unfortunately the latter gives them a win and it will only be repeated elsewhere. The best solution is for the population to wake up and overwhelmingly vote Democrats out of office at all levels.
Black Flag®
commonman55
d13thecolonel
gman
Just A Citizen
Life of Illusion
Jon Smith
USWeapon
Stand Up For America 
Weakness will always get taken advantage of and the Crats have exposed themselves.
Can the loony left get any dumber?
Is she a dope or just smoking too much of it?
No, a “true” believer.
It is hard to fathom that we are only twenty some years out of the societal chaos we had in the eighties and early nineties and yet this upcoming generation has NO concept of what us older folks went through, especially those of us who were fighting it at the time and dealt with it up close and personal.
How can a police force like NYC which is only 51% white, the rest minority, still be a racist police force? By teh way notice how NOBODY ever mentions that ethnic composition. people in the hinterland, watching CNN, MSNBC or even FOX have no clue, none.
Colonel,
Ever stop to think on Mathius’ points?
Good suggestion! Let’s do that!
He says, no jobs…they are there but no one takes them.
Maybe if they paid a living wage?
There is – ABSOLUTELY – a problem when you choice is (A) bust your ass at a minimum wage and make $300 or (B) sit on the couch collecting [insert program] benefits and make $280. It destroys the incentive. (This is why Mathius advocates that, to collect welfare, etc, you have to go out and dig a hole one day and fill it in the next or collect litter or or or.. just not sit around entitled to it so the choice is work hard and pointlessly for 280 vs work hard for a job for 300.)
But that said, there are a lot – a lot – of people who cannot, simply cannot live on what they make. They work two jobs. Sometimes three. And these jobs are all structured part-time so that there are no benefits. So it’s just a shite situation.
And it’s only going to get worse. I keep harping on this, but automation is eating and will continue to eat all the low skill jobs. In the next few years, pretty much every driver job (the single biggest job category) is going to vanish. Millions of drivers will be replaced by a handful of engineers and programmers. And then what? What are those drivers supposed to do? Pick themselves up by their bootstraps? Retrain to be AI programmers? Just die?
To imagine “there are jobs if you want them” as a solution ignores that the jobs (A) aren’t always there or (B) cannot justify being worked at the wage they pay.
If we killed the minimum wage, I’m sure some jobs would drop to a dollar an hour and someone would do them. But that person could work all day every day and never escape poverty – at best, they would succeed at “not dying.” That’s not a solution.
He says fatherless families because of prison terms….but crime is a choice, not a product of poverty…..
Tell that to Jean Val Jean.
He says fatherless families because of prison terms….but crime is a choice, not a product of poverty…..
You’ll also note that I’m lamenting what it does to the CHILDREN of such families. Crime might have been a “choice” of the parents, but the children raised without two parents did not get a say in the matter.
Maybe if they paid a living wage? YOU, sir do not get to determine what a living wage is and neither does the government. Only the person that is going to work determines what a living wage is. In Texas, the median income is $74k….a family of four can have a 2500 sq ft home, two cars, and eat on this wage. I bet in your area, you cannot buy a hotdog.
there are a lot – a lot – of people who cannot, simply cannot live on what they make. They work two jobs. Sometimes three. And these jobs are all structured part-time so that there are no benefits. So it’s just a shite situation. Yes…sometimes this is necessary….for awhile. Drop the word benefits….you are not entitled to benefits. If a job offers them, great.
Tell that to Jean Val Jean. I would, if I knew who or what this was…but I will look it up.
You’ll also note that I’m lamenting what it does to the CHILDREN of such families. Crime might have been a “choice” of the parents, but the children raised without two parents did not get a say in the matter. Yes, I will agree with you on this…and it is indeed unfortunate that the children are a by-product of bad decisions. However, the mentality out there raises these children that society has failed them when it is nothing of the sort. The parents failed them. Not you and not me.
Ah….Les Miserables……….Cats was a better Broadway show.
I saw Cats in London as a young teenager. I wasn’t familiar with the story or the music but had good seats and was excited to see it.
Some kid, maybe 8 or 9, sitting a row behind me and a few seats over, spent the entire play loudly signing along, off-key and off-beat. And his mother refused to shut him up.
Completely ruined the show.
Now, many years older, and having spent the money to take my kids to a few Broadway shows and pay for those kinds of good seats… I’m pissed in retrospect. That idiotic mother allowed her untamed brat-spawn to ruin an experience that everyone around her had paid a lot of money for. She probably flushed several thousand dollars of other people’s money down the drain and was too entitled to care.
I’m not sure why my parents didn’t grab an usher or demand a refund. Or, baring that, just bludgeon the child to death. Either way.
I’d have to say Wicked takes the cake!
Wicked was great!
When I saw it, the two leads had a giggle fit during the Popular song, and the whole show stalled for several minutes while they tried to get their act together. The orchestra kept trying to start up and they’d sing a line and then just collapse into helpless giggles… honestly, it was just so much fun to watch.
Not sure if the director gave them a hard time for it afterward, but the audience loved it. I guess when you’re Kristin Chenoweth or Idina Menzel, you can do pretty much whatever you want on stage.
That said, have you seen Rent, Hamilton, or Les Mis.. very different tones, of course, but just wonderful. Some of my favorites.
I have seen Les Mis….and Hamilton…..did not like Hamilton and Les Mis was……boring. Don’t know about Rent. Never heard of it.
Les Mis was amazing. Fantastic talent, great staging, great music, just a full production.
Hamilton was fun. I really liked it and, while some of the music wasn’t to my taste (the psudo rapping), some of the music was excellent. I’m surprised you didn’t like it? Were you expecting Burr to actually shoot Hamilton?
As for Rent… methinks and old fart like your good self would not appreciate it. (And the movie is horrible). It’s pretty far left.. but a fun show.
What shows have you seen that you DID like?
I thought Hamilton was fun. Wicked was fun. Les Mis is one of the best things in the world, and Rent was just gross. I left at intermission. I would have left sooner if I hadn’t been in the middle of the row. When the girl turned her back on the stage, dropped her pants and slapped herself on the rear, I was done.
Phantom of the Opera was classic, haven’t seen Hamilton, The Book of Mormon was hilarious, Cats was fun, not a fan of Rent, I had the opportunity to perform a piece of Les Mis with the cast which was incredible, but I still think Wicked is my favorite!
<b<$74k….[…] I bet in your area, you cannot buy a hotdog.
Maybe the store brand
I’ll tell you that my family could not survive on 75k… after taxes and my mortgage, that would leave me, maybe a grand a month for literally everything else from cars to insurance to electricity to food to entertainment.
Then again, the way my wife spends money, you’d think we were Rockefellers… she seems to believe that, as long as the credit card keeps working, there’s no problem.
Are wages even fully relevant to if a family can “survive”? Maybe what type of life a family can live, sure. $75k a year will certainly be able to provide you shelter, cloths on your back and food on the table.
However, if you’re saying a family can’t “survive” on $75k a year because they live beyond their means and have financed their whole life, then I don’t think that’s a matter of survival, more a matter of poor money management or lack of priorities. No judgement for those who live that way, I would just have to disagree that those are necessities to live or even live a good life.
People may not get to determine what family they come from, but the day they turn 18 they are responsible for every choice thereafter. Would you not agree?
You are certainly JAC’s daughter……
Ok, sorry for the wall of text.. I really can’t help myself. I hope you’re a quick reader.
Anyway, here’s where I stand on this kind of thing.
Almost anyone who is willing to put in an honest day’s labor AND exercises proper economic discipline can survive. They can afford a roof over their heads, they can afford food in their stomach, they can access some level of medical care. And they can do it for a lot less than 75k.
Something you should understand about my positions, before we go any further, is this: Anyone who CANNOT make ends meet, CANNOT find work, CANNOT afford medical care, et cetera, is owed something as a member of a civilized nation. That we put a roof over their heads, that we put food on their plate, that we treat their (serious) illnesses.
Beyond this, there are certain things that are more utilitarian that we should do as a society because it benefits us all. That is, we should educate everyone because an educated populace is necessary to a Democracy and a competitive workforce, etc. We should provide low-cost preventative medicine because if we don’t, we’re going to pay 1,000x once it’s an emergency. We should pay for birth control so people don’t have unwanted children they can’t afford who might later become a burden on the system. A case can be made for providing (basic) cell phones because it’s almost impossible to get work if you don’t have a phone for the person to call to hire you. A case can be made for substance abuse care because it reduces crime (both less crime and less cost of prison) and they could be more productive members of society if they weren’t addicted. A case could be made for a lot of other things. These are squishy, but boil down to: “we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.”
Other than basic human necessities and things which benefit us as a society from a utilitarian perspective, I (unlike most lefties) do not have one teensy tiny little ounce, no not an iota, of obligation to anyone else. (I think the typical Democratic position on all this is just insane).
And further than this, just to be clear, if you CHOOSE not to work, I owe you absolutely nothing and you can starve to death and that is simply not my problem. If you work but your spouse CHOOSES not to work, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you have no income, but have plenty of savings, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you have money for cigarettes or drugs or alcohol, but not enough for food, I owe you absolutely nothing. If you CHOOSE to buy a new iPhone and can’t afford rent and now you are homeless, well, not to offend your ladylike sensibilities, but that’s just tough shit.
——————-
Ok, so, back to your comments..
If you can’t live on $75k, you’re mismanaging your funds. You’ve chosen to live somewhere too expensive, you’ve taken out too big a mortgage, you married someone who spends way too much on Amazon.. whatever. If you make $75k, you should be able to live.
Maybe not live well. But, frankly, that’s just not my problem. The world doesn’t owe anyone luxuries.
Maybe you can’t eat out? Maybe you can’t afford a nanny. Maybe you drive a 15 year old used car? Maybe you wear unfashionable clothes? Maybe you use your buddy’s Netflix. Whatever. It doesn’t matter and I, frankly, don’t care. It’s just not my problem.
If I lost my job, I could carry my house for a while, but I’d have to sell eventually. And that would suck. And I’d have to move. And that would suck. And I’d have to take my kids to a lesser school district and that would suck. And none of that would be your problem. And you would owe me nothing.
People may not get to determine what family they come from,
I wish I couldn’ve chosen my family… Mathius Gates… Mathius Buffet… I could live with that..
but the day they turn 18 they are responsible for every choice thereafter. Would you not agree?
Yes.
Honestly, it varies by kid. Some kids are mature earlier some later. Honestly, I don’t think a “kid” becomes a “functional adult” in most cases until a year or two after being forced to be self-sufficient.
But, from a legal standpoint, and given that I’m not going to be individually deciding who is and is not an adult, yes,18.
At 18, you’re responsible.
But that doesn’t change the fact that, at 18, some kids have a million dollars in the bank, had a great education, can expect a fully-paid-for college tuition, and have an old man who has enough connections to ensure that the kid starts out at $150k.
Or maybe the kid had almost no education, an absent father and a drug addicted mother who beat him? Maybe he’s shoved out the front door with no marketable skills, barely literate, and nothing to his name except the clothes on his back?
Extremes, sure, but you get the point. It’s hard for me to look at that second kid, whose life ends up a failure and say “this is all your fault because of your bad decisions after 18.” Nor can I look at the first one and pretend he’s “self-made.” So much of where you end depends on how you start, and we shouldn’t be blind to that.
hahah indeed I am, and proud of it! But like most kids, I do have to push back and disagree with him on occasion. And don’t worry, you can’t offend me. 🙂
I am not a fast reader and not nearly as quick at collecting my thoughts, so you can always expect my responses to be delayed.
You say, Anyone who CANNOT make ends meet, CANNOT find work, CANNOT afford medical care, et cetera, is owed something as a member of a civilized nation.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs? I say that because I am here to learn and continue the expansion of my thinking. Not that I will necessarily agree, but it will give me more understanding. I believe we as a society have the obligation to take care of those mentally and physically disabled. However, I do not agree that anyone beyond that is owed anything, including many things you listed off.
“we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.” This thought interests me, If we truly held people accountable for their actions why would we need to give them a dollar in the first place? In fact, if we stopped giving out dollars, don’t you think more people would have to take more responsibility and reap the consequences of their actions encouraging less people to go down the same path?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I wish I could’ve chosen my family… Mathius Gates… Mathius Buffet… hahahah!!
Extremes yes, but I get what you’re saying.
I do believe we as a society should help take care of those in need. As villages, not the government. I love the saying “It takes a villiage to raise a child” because I think so much of what we learn growing up goes far beyond the sole influence of our direct family. We should be there for one another and to help our neighbor. However, I think we should have the choice to help who we want, not mandatory because the government has deemed who and take it right out of your pocket. At least here in Seattle, there are organizations to help everyone you could think of. If a guy at 18 was kicked out of his house, there is a place for him to go and a meal waiting for him on the table. There are women’s shelters, men’s shelters, drug rehab facilities, unplanned pregnancy centers, shelters for teens and young adults etc. etc. These should only be funded by the people who chose to help fund them or volunteer their time to help. Don’t these places provide what is needed to get these people back out the door and on their own two feet? If not, that’s where i’d say we have some growing to do. Giving a man a fish is not nearly as helpful as teaching him how to fish. BUT, If we teach them how to fish and they chose to sit there like a baby bird with their mouth wide open waiting to be fed, well that’s their choice and there shouldn’t be an obligation to help them.
To me there isn’t much of a difference in a person’s work ethic if they’ve been given everything their whole life, whether it come from the government or their rich family. I think a lot of parents make the mistake of giving their kids too much, and although they may have a nice car or a nice house, I think they have the same mentality of those who suck off the government. Some may have a different start, yes, but we all have the same opportunities and I believe those who weren’t handed everything actually have more opportunities than those who were. Including those of us who don’t have a college education (which I personally see as an irrelevance today). I think those who start with less face more challenges and obstacles which gives them a much greater long-term advantage over someone starting their adult life with $1m in their account. If, and only if, they choose to see it that way and learn and grow from the struggles. In no way could I agree that so much of where someone ends up is because of where they started.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs?
No one.
First, please enlighten me, who outside of the mentally and physically disabled CANNOT acquire these basic needs?
.. on an ongoing basis.
There are people who lose their jobs through no fault of their own and need some bridge support. Or who get hit with some huge medical bill and can’t make ends meet, etc.
But in terms of day-to-day living, if you are not physically disabled and/or mentally disabled, then you can and should work. And if you’re working, you can afford to live if you manage your expectations and spending appropriately.
For this reason, I advocate abolishing welfare, stamps, and all those other programs and replacing them with disability insurance and some kind of hybrid of
unemployment insurance“temporary paid community service”* and “temporary bad situation beyond my control” support.(I’m “left,” but the Democrats would burn me at the stake)
*The idea here is that your choice shouldn’t be “sit on couch for $380” or “work for $400.” It should be work for 380 or work a real job for 400. And if we, as a society, can get some benefit out of that work, that’s great. Maybe have them pick up litter or whatever. If not, have them dig a ditch and then fill it in the next day. It really doesn’t matter. Just don’t set up a stupid incentive scheme that encourages non-work.
“we should give them a dollar, not because they’re entitled to it, but because it’ll save us five dollars later on.” This thought interests me, If we truly held people accountable for their actions why would we need to give them a dollar in the first place?
It’s really not about THEM per se.
It’s about US.
If we agree – and maybe you don’t – that anyone, regardless of ability to pay, should be able to walk into a hospital and receive care for, say, cancer, then it’s only logical that we provide free screenings to catch that cancer early.
The earlier you catch cancer, the cheap it is to treat. That’s to say NOTHING about the higher survival rate. It’s just simple math. If we provide free screenings, then people will catch their cancer early, get it treated earlier, and the total amount that you and I pay will go down.
(Disclaimer: this is a scenario – I have absolutely no idea if this is true in THIS PARTICULAR case, but of course, it is true in some cases. So if not cancer screenings, then maybe handing out cell phones gets people back to work sooner and off UI sooner and that makes more sense. Or or or or or or).
Giving a man a fish is not nearly as helpful as teaching him how to fish. BUT, If we teach them how to fish and they chose to sit there like a baby bird with their mouth wide open waiting to be fed, well that’s their choice and there shouldn’t be an obligation to help them.
AMEN!
I think all too often, people forget that human beings respond to incentives. If you give them an incentive to sit there with their beaks open rather than going fishing, that IS what they’ll do. So we have to kill that perverse incentive.
I don’t know how old you are, whether you have kids or not, but when you are a parent, you become acutely aware of this kind of thing… kids are just dumber adults with less impulse control and complete guilelessness. You have to be super careful about what incentives are in place, because that’s what they’re going to do. Adults are no different. So – and this is where I think the Democrats* are out of their minds – sometimes when you try to be helpful, you wind up hurting.
*Democratic VOTERS want to be helpful. The Democratic POLITICIANS, like Republican POLITICIANS, are just sociopaths.
To me there isn’t much of a difference in a person’s work ethic if they’ve been given everything their whole life, whether it come from the government or their rich family.
I’ll tell you my experience is that wealthy people almost NEVER work as hard as poor people.
Completely anecdotal, of course.
I think a lot of parents make the mistake of giving their kids too much, and although they may have a nice car or a nice house, I think they have the same mentality of those who suck off the government.
I think it’s more in the VALUES you impart.
It’s not just that they have a lot of stuff. It’s that they’re ENTITLED to a lot of stuff.
I teach my kids that life isn’t fair. That no one owes you anything. And I have ground it into their skulls (to the point where it’s a mantra they’re annoyed with) that the only way to succeed is “work hard and never give up.”
I think you can be born at any income level and, given this parenting, you will be a grinder when you grow up. (but, you know, having wealth and connections and good schooling would still produce a better outcome ceterus paribus).
Including those of us who don’t have a college education (which I personally see as an irrelevance today).
Maybe.
I’ll tell you, I work at a hedge fund. If you don’t have a 4-year degree, you aren’t getting through the door. Full stop. Do no pass go.
You cannot, will not, no way, no how, EVER be hired at a hedge fund or any other kind of high finance institute without a 4-yr.
The only exception here is if you’re, maybe, a trader and can show a crazy track record, or you do investment relations and you are really well connected… but that’s a pretty thin carveout.
THAT SAID, I agree that what you LEARN at college is mostly unnecessary in today’s world unless you’re heading into a field which actually requires it (mine really doesn’t) like engineering or medicine, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that businesses won’t even consider you without it.
I think those who start with less face more challenges and obstacles which gives them a much greater long-term advantage over someone starting their adult life with $1m in their account.
I think this is a great thought, but it’s just not bourne out by the data.
If you are born poor, odds are you’ll die poor.
If you’re born rich, odds are you’ll die rich.
There’s, of course, some mobility in there, but, by and large, where you end up is very well predicted by where you start.
Being born poor is NOT an advantage. Being born poor and being molded into a grinder and developing a monster work ethic and having a brain in your head and having parents who will help get you the education you need and and and… that’s like being born at the bottom of a well, but strapped to a rocket ship.
But, for the majority, being born poor is less “character strengthening” and more “lack of opportunity.”
In no way could I agree that so much of where someone ends up is because of where they started.
This chart – from the Heritage Foundation!! – shows that if you’re born in the top 20%, you have a 40% chance of staying there and an 8% chance of ending up poor. If you’re born in the bottom 20%, you have a 43% chance of staying there and a 4% chance of getting to the top.
This is a couple years out of date (2012), but I don’t think things have changed that much since then.
So, you leave the borders open? How’s that for a simplistic answer?
Now anyone advocating that, has exactly WHO’s interests at heart?
I think, looking at Europe, especially the Scandinavian countries it has been proven that the more educated a country becomes the more the problem you outline becomes self corrected. First gen immigrants still think they are on the farm somewhere where they need ten kids. Usually the 2nd and 3rd gen wise up.
Remember, the ONLY reason we have poverty in the United States is because we import it…..the only reason we have crime in the United States is because we import it. Sorry if that blows upon your particular weltanschauung.
I just received a text from a good friend in Denmark. Here is part of what he asked me. “How in the hell do you justify a funeral procession with horse drawn carriage for a felon that has a rap sheet that stretches around the world.”
I simply replied….”Only in America.” To which he replied, the general consensus in Denmark is that it was a death that should not have happened in the manner it did but it certainly does not rise to the status you crazy Americans put it on. To which I again replied…only in America.
“How in the hell do you justify a funeral procession with horse drawn carriage for a felon that has a rap sheet that stretches around the world.”
Because, criminal or saint, the man was murdered by those who (ostensibly) are there to protect us.
You get that, right?
I mean, we don’t have to canonize the guy. He wasn’t a saint. The issue isn’t about HIM. It’s about the fact that a man was straight-up murdered by police officers.
You get that people aren’t really upset about the death of one random guy who was basically unknown beforehand. You get that people are upset because the police committed a murder, that the murder was done so callously and caught on film. And that people, myself included, believe that there has been far too much of that kind of thing going on way too broadly for way too long.
THAT is what they’re having a procession for. They’re not burying George Floyd, criminal. They’re burying
George FloydHuman Being, victim of a brutal, cold-blooded, broad daylight murder by police.the general consensus in Denmark is that it was a death that should not have happened in the manner it did but it certainly does not rise to the status you crazy Americans put it on.
Tell your friend in Denmark that the US has a…. complicated… history with race.
Tell him that the funeral procession and the riots and the protests aren’t about “Floyd” per se, but about the perception (right or wrong) that there is a problem of systemic racism and excessive violence by the police toward the black community, that this has been going on for decades, and that Floyd was merely a tipping point into the current crisis and not, in and of himself, the crisis itself.
Tell him that black people feel that Floyd was murdered and that, had it not been caught on tape, the cops would have walked free. Tell him that black people, in the span of a month or so, watched a white father and son chase down an innocent black man and murder him on film, saw the men go free and un-charged until there was an uproar, saw a black man in a park get threatened by a racist woman who knew that calling the police with “African American male is threatening me” would result in a dangerous situation for him, and saw Floyd straight-up murdered on camera. And that these incidents are not isolated. And we can debate until we are blue in the face the exact details and nuances of each incident and a thousand others, but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community.
Tell him that the black community is sick and tired of hearing about “bad apples” when there seems to be an awful lot of evidence not only that there are an unacceptable number of bad apples but that they get protected and shielded from consequences when they really shouldn’t be. That the guy who killed Floyd had been in three shootings, killed one of the people, and had eighteen – EIGHTEEN – complains against him, at least seven of which related to “police brutality.” If he were a bad apple, the black community wants to know, what does it take to remove such bad apples and why was he allowed to continue? Why was a man who has shot three people and been accused seven independent times of police brutality and 11 other times of who-knows-what allowed to hold this position of authority and power?
That they are tired of being told that they need to remain calm, respectful, polite, and level headed when a cop has a gun pointed at them or they are responsible, but somehow the cop can be “triggered” by the slightest thing and kill a black man and then hide behind qualified immunity… consequence-free… and that the black community considers this a problem, not an “isolated problem.” And sometimes, they see those cops not only go free, but end up with huge payouts for “pain and suffering” or walk away with lifetime pensions, seemingly rewarded for their actions.
Tell him that, whatever the actual “truth” of the statistical reality is – there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long.
Tell him they aren’t mourning Floyd, just as nobody really cared who Rodney Kind was… it’s not about THEM. It’s about what they’re indicative of.
Tell him they’re mourning all the black men and women who have been killed over the years by what they perceive to be a cavalier attitude toward the lives of black people by the police.
Well… all that… and the fact that there’s a pandemic going on and it’s like a giant pressure cooker that can’t really handle this kind of this with patience at the moment.
Seriously.. send him this.. I’d love to see his take.
Oh, and one last thing. Tell him that the President has said things like: “When you guys [police] put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]. Like, ‘Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.’ I said, ‘You can take the hand away, OK?’ ” And, maybe, just maaaaayyyyyybbbbbeeeee.. black people have a problem with that kind of attitude.
I know I sure as hell do. And I’m as white as a Dane.
test
Any response from the VikingLands?
I will certainly send it. But with a caveat…….I do not agree with all you say and I will add, that as far as the police go, you have some salient points and most agree with the manner in which the police act. But your statements are not consistent with my thinking. If you wish to limit your systemic racism to the police…ok……but not to the public in general because I do not think that is how most people see it. I certainly do not see it that way. But I will send your text unedited.
Be sure to add, from me, that the Danes make some very find Vikings – kindred of the Pirates, of course – and the I hope his people get back to their roots soon.
The nations to the South are getting a little too big for their britches.
They be ripe fer plunder….
Once again you ignore the facts when it suits your purpose. The girl in the park did receive a veiled threat prior to calling the police. As for police slaughtering blacks, that nonsense and continuing the lie only exacerbates the problem.
The girl in the park did receive a veiled threat prior to calling the police.
Mathius says: And we can debate until we are blue in the face the exact details and nuances of each incident and a thousand others, but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community.
I do believe Mathius hemmed and hawed about these things being perception and refused to opine on the actual truth of such matters.
As for police slaughtering blacks, that nonsense and continuing the lie only exacerbates the problem.
Mathius says: Tell him that the funeral procession and the riots and the protests aren’t about “Floyd” per se, but about the perception (right or wrong) that there is a problem of systemic racism and excessive violence by the police toward the black community
Mathius says: Tell him that, whatever the actual “truth” of the statistical reality is – there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long.
Seems to me that he wasn’t lying.. just stating his understanding of the perception of the black community… Do you deny this is a prominent perception within these communities?
Seems to me you’re seeing him explaining the views of other people, ignoring all his caveats, and then calling him a liar over it. That seems a bit silly, doesn’t it?
If I explain Marist theory, does that make me a Marxist?
A Minneapolis manufacturing company, whose plant burned amid civil unrest following George Floyd’s death, is leaving the city after nearly four decades and taking dozens of jobs with it. The president and owner of 7-Sigma Inc. Kris Wyrobek felt inclined to do so after he says he lost trust in public officials during the riots that plagued the city, according to Star Tribune. “They don’t care about my business,” said Wyrobek told the Star Tribune. “They didn’t protect our people. We were all on our own.” The first of many, I bet.
—————————
Now, a question for our resident libertarian/lefty. If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
Now, a question for our resident libertarian/lefty
You askin’ me or the Pirate?
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
If they do it because it’s a bad investment, then it’s a business decision.
If they do it because “those black people are like animals and I’m not investing in them,” then it’s discrimination / racism.
I know you have a problem with this kind of thinking, but the same exact action can be different things based on intent. If I run over a person by accident it’s not a crime. It’s an accident. Assuming I wasn’t playing with my phone or driving recklessly, maybe the guy just stepped out between to cars and *bang*. I don’t go to jail, I don’t even get a ticket. But if I wait for you in front of your house, then as soon as you go to get the paper I run you over, then back over you, and run you over again, well… Actually, since they’ll never catch me, I’m still not going to jail, but it’s technically a crime, anyway.
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
I’ll hazard a guess that the Pirate would tell you that it’s none of his damned business and if it is racism, then the society has to decide that they won’t do business with racists and punish the bank economically until it’s brought to heel.
And I would call him a loon for thinking that would work.
As an investor, would you invest in an area prone to violence and vandalism, looting, and burning?
Sure.
I don’t know what “an area prone to violence and vandalism,” etc means, though.
“Areas” aren’t prone to anything.
Hell “People” aren’t really even prone to anything.
People react to incentives.
You have to ask yourself what INCENTIVES caused people to burn down their neighborhoods. Only THEN can you proceed.
I would be happy to invest in a town that just rioted… there’s a fortune to be made there. But I’m going to make damned certain that they know I’m their ally… and when they loot the Walmart, you can bet that my store isn’t going to be on the chopping block.
And when they try to pawn off all the stuff they looted from Walmart, I’ll be there to give ’em a fair price and make a reasonable, but not extortionate, profit. Maybe I’ll even go ahead and sell it back to Walmart.
Plus, you know, all my stores come equipped with auto-turrets.. just in case that fails, soo… you know…
The Pirate is a loon…I thought you knew that.
I’ll hazard a guess that the Pirate would tell you that it’s none of his damned business and if it is racism, then the society has to decide that they won’t do business with racists and punish the bank economically until it’s brought to heel.
And I would call him a loon for thinking that would work.
And I would tell you that you should stick to something you’re good at – which is NOT politics or guessing how I would answer a question.
If the banks decide not to reinvest in these areas, would you consider that a business decision or would you consider that discrimination and red lining.
I would consider them FOOLS.
There’s money to be made, and if you’re a bad businessman, or you allow your racism to cloud your judgement (which is just another way of being a bad businessman), then you will miss out on business opportunities and someone else will eat your lunch.
Don’t want to invest in a community which rioted because you’re afraid you’ll lose your investment? Invest in the people of the community, become the business that cares for and supports and fosters the community and gives back. There are millions upon millions of people in these communities – the profit potential is limitless. You just need to tap into it.
Look at WHY they are rioting and ask yourself: can I do something about that in order to turn this into a potential investment opportunity? If the community is upset about police brutality, can you use your money to change that? Now you’ve got a community that is both a ripe investment opportunity and which already views you favourably (and maybe is overtly hostile to the other companies which abandoned them). Sounds like a good situation to be in.
My guess would be that 99.9% of businesses say “investing in the black community” but think “how can we exploit this community for maximum profit” and it turns out that they don’t like being exploited for maximum profit.
The old adage.. you can sheer a sheep over and over, but skin it only once. Not that these communities are sheep, but if you try to drain them of all their wealth and leave nothing on the table for them, why shouldn’t they burn it all down? None of it is theirs? They have no skin in the game.
No, the Dread Pirate did not write this. I must go find him…..
And what makes you say this?
The mark of a good businessman is the ability to find and exploit business opportunities.
The mark of a GREAT businessman is the ability to create his own business opportunities.
The human capital exists within the communities. Living, breathing, human beings, being under-utilized for work. Almost completely untapped. Train ’em up, give ’em a vested interest in the town, pay them enough that they don’t feel hostile to you, treat ’em well so they don’t hate you, fight for them, help them. You don’t have to exploit people to profit off them.
If you push too far, eventually, they’re going to burn your factory down and show up at your boat with pitchforks. If you build allies, the potential upside is enormous.
Where is the Pirate, the Colonel asks again. Or has Mathius hijacked the Pirate’s account. This is a well thought out and sensible approach…not the ravings of a Pirate on plunder duty. Where is the Pirate?
Where is the Pirate?
DPM Said: they’re going […] show up at your boat with pitchforks.
I suspect the pirate needed to take a few minutes to lie down after expending the mental energy it took him not to make a certain very terrible joke..
But that’s just a guess.
One should only gamble what one is prepared to lose. This is very true….very true. So if banks and investors choose not to “gamble” their money in blighted or low income areas because they do not want to lose…..then how can anyone claim racism or red lining is racist…………………under your theory.
If I say, ” I choose not to invest or put my money into or build stores in areas prone to violence and rioting and thefts……why am I a racist”?
Now, from a business’ man’s perspective. I probably would not invest in a neighborhood prone to crime and such…..I doubt that I could find insurance, for one thing and if I was an insurance company, I probably would not offer it or the price would be so high they could not afford it.
One should only gamble what one is prepared to lose.
Fire insurance in the CA hinter lands is becoming a scarce commodity and it does not even depend on the temperament of people.
“Free the Panther 21 and Power to the people!”
Ah the good old days have returned!
BLM= The Panthers
Antifa = SDS Weather Underground
But my, how they have both grown.
A couple for the Colonel……”Ho-Ho-Ho Chin Minh….NLF is gonna win” and of course that wonderful golden oldie….”Hey! Hey! LBJ, How many kids have you killed today?”
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He’s got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We’re gonna have a whole lotta fun.
And it’s one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it’s five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain’t no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we’re all gonna die.
Well, come on generals, let’s move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds-
The only good commie is the one who’s dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we’ve blown ’em all to kingdom come.
Well, come on Wall Street, don’t move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There’s plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.
Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don’t hesitate,
Send ’em off before it’s too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.
And it’s one, two, three,
What are we fighting for?
Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it’s five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain’t no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we’re all gonna die.
Remember it well. Just find it interesting that I am reliving my youth again! Except for the RVN that is.
Yes…we have been through this before in the 60’s and early 70’s. The result will be the same. This, to, shall pass. And this generation will tell the next generation and they will still keep voting in the same miscreants as before thinking that they can change culture and thinking.
Remember when the big desegregation movement was in full swing? Busing and quotas and such in the great social experiment? Put everyone together and mix them up. It will eventually take over…..and you walk into the lunchroom at the schools and look. All the races still sought out their own and all sat with themselves. And it is still that way today. Nothing has changed.
Texas tried the Robin Hood approach for years. Rob the rich to pay the poor. School districts were given the same amount of money under the pretense that if all teachers got the same pay, and all schools were funded in the same way and all were allocated in the same manner then you would not have disparity among the teaching staff. The thought was that if everyone was paid the same it would not matter where you taught. Brand new high schools in low income districts were built with state of the art things, brand new football stadiums, sports exchanges were the same…..etc. It just did not work. The new high schools were trashed, the grades of students did not go up, the sports exchanges did not flourish.
In the more affluent districts, the PTA’s had fund raisers to boost what they lost in this Robin Hood scheme. In the poorer districts, there was no PTA because the parents simply did not care. It was not that they did not have money because they all got the same money…when you bused white kids into black neighborhoods, there was still segregation. When you bused Hispanic kids into black neighborhoods there was still segregation. even when you went to the football games….races still sat together and still do.
It will change and it will take generations to change it. It was already changing in the 60’s and 70’s and it is changing now. But things like these riots……is setting things back. I do not even watch the news because I am tired of it. And, when these groups seize the opportunity, they drive different agendas. A great example of this is right now…..in Fort Worth of all places…a black group wants to go into white enclaves and change all the street names to reflect all the names of black people killed so that the “Whitey’s” can see them every day and be reminded. It will get nowhere, of course, but this is viewed as a set back and like the police, a few bad apples can influence thought…Mathius even comes across that all police are bad. He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman. He does paint with a broad brush. But, I do believe this and I would be willing to try it. De-fund the police. Go to a national police force and teach them guitar lessons and empathy. Do it…..I am all for it. I know how to protect myself and will. “We don’t need no stinking police.”…..
Send them all to classes on empathy and sensitivity,. Send them all to classes on race and culture. Do it. Do it now. And I will sit back and slowly shake my head back and forth and remember what the great society experiments of the 60s and 70s produced. So we will become the great welfare state dependent upon the government to tell us what to do….and nothing will change. We are one…….we are one…….you are obsolete.
My own son even tried it and we did not discourage him. I remember it well as does he. He had a good friend that was black named Devon. He spent the night at our house many times. A very nice kid. But my son could never spend the night at Devon’s house because he was white. He was not welcome at Devon’s house and he was not welcome to play with Devon’s friends. Devon wanted it and my son wanted it but no Whitey’s allowed. And, eventually, Devon had to make a decision. Because associating with a “white boy” made Devon “white”. My son was born in 1972..you do the math. In the mid 80’s, my son asked a black girl that he was friends with to go to the school prom. She was beaten up by her black friends because of it. Nothing has changed.
The world is not star trek ready.
Oof.
I think the world HAS changed, at least most of it. Of course, there are pockets of anacronists, but in most of the US, I think a while man can ask a black girl out without anyone being beaten up. Pretty much anywhere except the real ghetto areas. No one I know would have batted an eye at something like that when I was kid – which was in the 90’s-00’s and in Los Angeles, so that’s pretty far removed from Texas in the ’80’s.
But… yes.. the gist of “acting white” and such is an ENORMOUS problem.
And it’s not just “hanging out with whitey,” but sometimes that “getting good grades” or “getting a job” etc can be seen as “acting white” and I cannot stress how POISONOUS this is within those cultures. I posted a video on the last page.. a clip from a show back in the 90’s.. did you want it?
Yes..repost that clip at your convenience….that is, if the Pirate does not have you tied up somewhere.
Mathius even comes across that all police are bad. He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman.
I think you’re going to have a hard time supporting this statement from anything I’ve written.
Mathius even comes across that all police are bad.
I’ve argued that the “bad apple” type can’t be more than a few percent, but that they are shielded and protected and allowed to continue at a disturbing rate.
And I’ve argued that there is a certain type of person who becomes a cop because they are sadistic and want the power and authority and that, again, while a minority, perhaps a vanishingly small minority, the question remains: how many floating turds are an acceptable number in your swimming pool?
He believes that if you give the police the same thing the military has in weaponry and hardware and such, that it empowers all the police to be sadistic and inhuman.
I’ve argued that, with increased power comes increased responsibility and that that responsibility does not seem to materialize for all police officers. And that this is a problem.
I’ve argued that things like “warrior training” and giving more powerful weaponry and hardware.. without the increased training and discipline and consequences.. put them in a position of “playing military”… with predictable results. I have no problem being policed by the military, nor the police-police, but police-playing-military is a problem.
Yes sir, my friend….you have argued all of these brilliantly…..but you are large on perception……and this is a perception that takes no great leap. I know your true feelings….and I know where you stand but that is not what SOME people read. It is perception.
For example: there is a strong perception within the black community that this racism, bias, and devaluation of black lives is real and serious and has been going on for too long. Your words…no? And then you say regardless of what the statistics show, the perception is the opposite. This single statement from you changes the perception of what you meant to siding with the sentiment.
I don’t think it’s any secret that I am…… sympathetic….. to the BLM movement. Just like I am sympathetic to Me Too and gay rights and trans rights and and and.
I don’t have to agree with their most extreme interpretations of their dire situations and victimization to see that things aren’t quite equal. I don’t have to agree that they are being murdered and victimized every second of every day in every aspect of society and they are 100% innocents and it borders on the Holocaust to agree that there IS a problem.
I don’t believe – as a personal opinion – that police are murdering black people left and right with impunity. And I don’t believe it’s nearly as much about color as it is about poverty and a cultural problem and a self-perpetuating cycle of dependency and fatherlessness generated by the system and the for-profit criminal justice system and the War on Drugs and and and and and. But I do – absolutely – believe that there is still a problem here. I do believe that, ceterus paribus, (A) a black person is more likely to be killed by a cop than a white person and (B) the police do a wildly inadequate job of eliminating the bad apples from within their ranks.
And that that problem – and the blown-up perception thereof – needs to be addressed.
And, by the way, the inverse is true.
I think there’s a perception by some on the right that the protestors are rioting thugs who eagerly burn down their communities and loot Targets. And there is a perception on the left that the protestors are peaceful bordering on saintly and that it’s just a handful of opportunistic criminals and outside agitators doing the crimes. And I think this is absurd. Humans are humans. And desperate, poor, angry, scared humans will do desperate, angry, and scared things… like burn down their community and loot Targets.
But the actual proportion of “good actors to bad actors” is almost certainly 99:1. And I believe this because, if that proportion were much higher, we wouldn’t have “looting”… we’d have a full-blown race war.
By the same logic, I think the percentage of psychotic murdering cops has to be tiny.. otherwise, we would have a much bigger problem. But, again, what is the acceptable number of floating turds in your swimming pool.
but police-playing-military is a problem. Yes…this could be a problem, if it exists. I want my police to be military in given situations. But kneeling on a neck is not a military style maneuver except in combat and controlling POWs.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/09/antifa-militants-seize-seattle-police-hq-set-up-autonomous-zone-n512621
What this is really about, at least for the ones organizing this chaos—- ” “The cops will always be racist because capitalism requires inequality.”
https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2020/06/09/blacks-lives-matter-is-still-an-awful-organization/
Amen!
Border barricades are now OK.
Goes with the comment one above.
Henry Home, Lord Kames, Scottish jurist and scholar, wrote much about the importance of property to society. In his Essay Upon Several Subjects Concerning British Antiquities, written just after the Jacobite rising of 1745, he showed that the politics of Scotland were based not on loyalty to Kings, as the Jacobites had said, but on the royal land grants that lay at the base of feudalism, the system whereby the sovereign maintained “an immediate hold of the persons and property of his subjects”.
In Historical Law Tracts Home described a four-stage model of social evolution that became “a way of organizing the history of Western civilization”. The first stage was that of the hunter-gatherer, wherein families avoided each other as competitors for the same food. The second was that of the herder of domestic animals, which encouraged the formation of larger groups but did not result in what Home considered a true society. No laws were needed at these early stages except those given by the head of the family, clan, or tribe. Agriculture was the third stage, wherein new occupations such as “plowman, carpenter, blacksmith, stonemason” made “the industry of individuals profitable to others as well as to themselves”, and a new complexity of relationships, rights, and obligations required laws and law enforcers. A fourth stage evolved with the development of market towns and seaports, “commercial society”, bringing yet more laws and complexity but also providing more benefit. Lord Kames could see these stages within Scotland itself, with the pastoral Highlands, the agricultural Lowlands, the “polite” commercial towns of Glasgow and Edinburgh, and in the Western Isles a remaining culture of rude huts where fishermen and gatherers of seaweed eked out their subsistence living.
Let me see if I saw this right yesterday. We have a pasty white elitist Liberal telling a foreigner what black people are wanting. That explains why they have so many issues. SMH!
LOL :joy:
Well, that didn’t work out. It was supposed to be an emoji. ::shrug::
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Congressional Democrats endured a harrowing experience yesterday as they knelt but were unable to get back up for nearly nine minutes.
Most people thought their nine-minute kneel was intentional, but it appeared they only claimed that to save face, as they had intended on kneeling for just 30 seconds but quickly found they could not get back up.
“Help! I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!” cried Nancy Pelosi after pressing her medical alert button. “Send someone, quick!”
“Is this Nancy again? How many times have we told you running out of vodka and ice cream isn’t an emergency, Nancy?” asked the exasperated operator.
But when she clarified her predicament, rescuers were quickly sent to Capitol Hill, where they were able to find Pelosi and the rest of the elderly Democrats and help them to their feet. The Democrat leaders said they will be canceling congressional meetings for the next 12-18 months while they recover from the incident.
@JAC’s Daughter,
I don’t know why I keep having to moderate your comments, they should go straight through as approved. I’ll keep trying to fix it.
There is probably some fine print somewhere that only allows one JAC relative per site. haha
No worries, gman. Let me know if there is anything I need to do on my end.
Hi JAC’s daughter, sorry I didn’t say welcome, the other day. I didn’t actually think you were really JAC’s daughter. 😁
Hi there! and yes, yes I really am haha 🙂
Your skepticism is understandable though, since it seems there are some multiple personality disorders around here.
Defund the police. Is that just city cops? Or does it include Sheriffs and State Troopers?
All law enforcement…….even the FBI, where it is now proven they usurp their authority. Hell, Anita, let them do it. Just protect yourself.
Sir Mathius….I presented your comments as I promised. I will cut and paste the results for you as you received comments from Denmark, Russia, Germany, England, South Korea, Mexico, Japan, France, Switzerland, and Romania. Allow me to set the stage for you as to why you received comments from so many countries and why I will cut an paste. I play an international strategy game. We are all connected at various times during this game. It is an ongoing strategy game that I have been playing for a couple years now. There is a translator built into the game so when people type in their language, it is translated so we can all converse. The translator is pretty good and the only languages that it has trouble translating are some of the dialects from Africa and some of the Baltic states. There were Chinese on here at one time but their government blocks the signal.
Because, criminal or saint, the man was murdered by those who (ostensibly) are there to protect us. You get that, right? “so, you punish the police that did it and not burn down buildings.” “We have the same problem here but we do not burn our town down. This is stupid.” “There are bad actors everywhere. but you do not punish a whole country because of stupid acts”
I mean, we don’t have to canonize the guy. He wasn’t a saint. The issue isn’t about HIM. It’s about the fact that a man was straight-up murdered by police officers. “Of course it is about him. That is all we hear over here.” “What do you mean it is not about him. His name is everywhere.” “I can’t believe that you have a funeral procession for a drug addict and felon. Those should be reserved for heroes and not dead beats.”
but the fact is that there ARE a thousand others, so it’s easy to see why this feeling has built up within the community. “What is next for America? You don’t like the food next?” “Human nature is just that, human nature. The world is not meant to live together. America, get over it.” “That is what I like about your country. The police misbehave and you have cardiac arrest. Just fire the policeman that did it. Hell, you even shut your country down when a little girl falls down a well and gets trapped.”
Tell him they’re mourning all the black men and women who have been killed over the years by what they perceive to be a cavalier attitude toward the lives of black people by the police. ” Tell your friend, Colonel, that life is unfair.” “I do not get this continuing perception that blacks are mistreated. I see the opposite in America.” “America used to be a beacon for most of us and now it appears that you are becoming petty.” “We do not have that problem over here but you would think we do now because of the crap coming from America. Grow up.”
Tell him that the President has said things like: “When you guys [police] put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head you know, the way you put their hand over [their head]. Like, ‘Don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody, don’t hit their head.’ I said, ‘You can take the hand away, OK?’ ” And, maybe, just maaaaayyyyyybbbbbeeeee.. black people have a problem with that kind of attitude. “So quit creating the problems that make the police have to do that.” “We thought President Trump was going to restore strength in America. Your three previous Presidents have been tearing America down to where we scratch our heads and wonder why people over there put up with it.” “Maybe it is time for America to grow some balls again.” “Things were a lot easier around the world when America was great. Now you are acting like a school child. I know things were better here when America was strong.”
________________________
I have received about 30 replies all about the same. Some even worse. But you get the gist.
Interesting… will have to re-read and reply when time permits. Thanks
Bear in mind that I put separate remarks in its own set of quotation. Also, one thing that I did not mention in the replies because it was not part of your comments……not a single solitary one of the people on this venue that I am on thinks that BLM is legitimate. I thought that was interesting.
“We thought President Trump was going to restore strength in America. Your three previous Presidents have been tearing America down to where we scratch our heads and wonder why people over there put up with it.”
This person is more aware of reality than at least half of Americans.
You left out this
“Things were a lot easier around the world when America was great. Now you are acting like a school child. I know things were better here when America was strong.”
“
Up here in the New Yawk area it is often said by us white Middle Class folk about people we grew up with that they would either wind up in jail or as cops. I think recent events demonstrate the tongue in cheek accuracy of that statement.
What is worse, when cops are in a group. They act in a manner no different than any other “gang” what is normally not OK suddenly becomes OK. I remember Joseph Wambaugh’s “The Choirboys” (he was about the best chronicler of police stupidity during the ’70’s) in which a group of LA cops get together on and off duty for a little private “fun” which goes bad…..
Someone clued me into this little Dallas event from a few years back where apparently another group of fun loving cops killed the red haired white guy using the same methodology. Still NOT resolved, probably will NEVER be. After all, the “vic” was white.
Note to Matt: Pay attention grasshopper!
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/08/02/police-responded-to-his-911-call-for-help-he-died-what-happened-to-tony-timpa/
I was clued into the Tony Timpa case recently as well. Terrible what happened.
The case that really gets my blood boiling is the Breonna Taylor shooting. I am 99.9% against the ‘no knock’ warrants, and this is exactly why. Why are not more people protesting this death? Why was Breonna not given a national funeral? She, apparently, was a hard working person, was in her own home, not on drugs, not committing any crime and now she is dead. In this case, I could actually understand why people might get little violent towards the police. I wouldn’t agree with it, but I could at least understand it.
But the guy that was high on fentanyl, just committed a crime, resisted arrest and was a convicted VIOLENT felon gets treated like a hero. Ridiculous!!
Shooting of Breonna Taylor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor#:~:text=On March 13, 2020, Breonna,authority of a search warrant.
Let’s also not forget that, after barging into the house in the middle of the night (allegedly) without announcing themselves, her boyfriend shot – quite understandably – at the intruders and hit one in the leg.
And he was charged with attempted murder!
(charges were later dropped, but holy shit, what kind of flaming bullshit is that!)
Matt: The correct answer is CYA. same as ATF did with Ballew 50 years ago, They are NEVER wrong. “Quick, handcuff the dead guy, looks better”.
Rick, the VERY first case that I remember….. This NYT article from ’71 is basically full of crap, at least the government’s side of the story’. Turned out to be a no knock warrant> Guy is in the tub, wife is naked , he thought he was being robbed and the ATF clowns were playing “Omaha Beach”. he pulled a loaded 1860 Colt navy on them. 1860!
Correct spelling of his name, Kenyon Ballew in case you want to follow it up. Ultimately exonerated, he was left brain damaged and partially paralyzed. Good work ATF, a precursor of Ruby Ridge and Waco!
There IS an NRA link which is pretty damned accurate especially, if I remember, the government’s use of “stool pigeons” who would sell Mom out to climb out of teh hole they are in.
I can’t read this article because I don’t have a subscription, but I will definitely research this guy.
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah.
When the shit does hit the fan, then they “are” an occupying force but when the crisis passes, that thinking must pass too.
I am going to try and dig up a piece done a few years back by the local Washington Heights NY cops on what they did to get the community working with them in sync. It is incredibly instructive and explains quite well just why NYC force is 51% white, 24% Hispanic and the remainder equal parts Asian and Black.
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah. Precisely and I think this is the point Mathius is making. However, I will disagree with you on one thing.., I have no problem with the police having armored vehicles, body armor, and weapons that match what is on the street.
When the shit does hit the fan, then they “are” an occupying force but when the crisis passes, that thinking must pass too. Now…this statement is something I can get my arms around.
Not sure about the APC’s. Ditto with head to toe body armor in a “normal” situation and I am absolutely, positively totally against head to toe tattoo’s. The “almost” psychologist, with 47 credits, in me thinks there is something inherently awry with someone who does that.
Yes, even today in the military…..no tattoo’s are to be visible while wearing the uniform. I am seeing that individuals you have tattoo’s around their necks like some Mayan culture are being ushered out of the military. Same with piercings….including the women. No ear jewelry nose, tongue…..I requested that I be assigned to check for nipple piercings but I have not received an answer…..damn.
I don’t know that I would WANT to see that! The mug shot of Mayor DeBlasio’s daughter when she was busted protesting had her wearing a nose ring. That is a pretty weird. One would think it was some masochistic thing relating to being a “slave”. Told ya I had 47 credits of psych back in the days when it actually tried to be a science before it became a political cult.
Which reminds me, the author of the Harry Potter books is socially DEAD (and may also literally be on a hit list) because last week she came out saying a transgender “woman” cannot be a real woman. Harry himself, the actor playing the role, condemned her for her bigotry with the comment, “They are every bit a real woman that a real woman is”.
They put rings in hog’s and bull’s noses too.
When my daughter started to play with cosmetics, I would walk past the bathroom and say, “We called Indians savages when they painted their faces.”
Wow, SK, I missed this but, wow…
Police militarization is NEVER a good idea. If you think of yourself as an occupying force, you will eventually start acting that way. When I hear cops talk about “civilians” instead of “citizens” I think, they think, they are in Fallujah.
Damn, I have to learn how to post u tube on here…..Google George Carlin on your rights are an illusion. Great comedy satire…and spot on.
I have to learn how to post u tube on here
Anita posted it, but you just have to go to Youtube.com and copy the URL (http://www.youtube……..) and paste it in here. Easy peasy.
I guess my answer to the Police problem is while supporting the good cops but when one goes as far afield as these clowns, they should NEVER see the light of day again. A two tier justice system? Nah, change the laws to reflect that with the enhanced authority comes enhanced responsibility and in some cases culpability.
It was a HUGE mistake to charge the two rookie cops with a crime. Any dummy out there knows there was no way they could have intervened. Gonna gum up the prosecution in one way or the other. Offer complete immunity for testimony.
Hooray! My Buddy Al Heitzer dug up the link.
I implore ALL of you to take the time to watch this and pass it on. This is how it is supposed to be done. That which separates the good cops from the jerks. AND how we change society.
Hold up, still do not have the video link!
A shortened version until I find the 12 minute one.
View at Medium.com
They make it impossible to support them.
Quick Survey:
There are no gimmicks here, no “pull it halfway so the train derails and everyone lives.” You pull or you do not pull.
What do you do?
Acceptable answers are “Pull” or “Don’t pull.”
Which track has the Liberals tied down?
Well, unless we know for a fact that the 1 will be curing cancer, then we pull the lever. A variation of “triage’.
If I know nothing else about the issue….pull.
Pull seems to be the logical answer if your goal is to save lives, but honestly, if I were really in that situation, I’m not sure if I could do something that would end another persons life, even if it was saving other people.
Trust me, Jennie, that is a tough decision to make…..and then live with the consequences of it. Guilt and dreams never fade.
Jennie appears to have deontological ethics. That is, she isn’t driven by “the ends justify the means” kind of thinking.
Unlike someone I could name…
I’m with gman. Which track has the liberals? 🙂
All this talk about defunding police departments reminds me of meeting that new neighbor who tells you that he has always had problems with his neighbors everywhere he lived. Then later you realize the reason he always had those problems is because he causes them.
As far as the BLM demands, maybe they should take a long look in the mirror and realize that a vast majority of high, violent crime areas are black neighborhoods. The solution isn’t police reform, it’s black reform. Since most are afraid to say this, I will.
Some True or False questions for you:
1. Children of fatherless households tend to perform worse in school.
2. Children of fatherless households tend to become more delinquent.
3. Children of fatherless households tend to use drugs at a higher rate.
4. Children of fatherless households tend to be more violent.
5. Children who perform worse in school, are more delinquent, use more drugs, and/or are more violent tend to commit more crimes.
6. People who commit more crimes tend to get arrested more often.
7. People who are arrested more often tend to get locked up more often, and for longer periods.
8. People who are locked up generally cannot perform well as fathers to any children they might have (either as fathers or financial providers).
9. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
10. High crime areas get policed more.
11. An area which is policed more will tend to result in more arrests.
12. More arrests will tend to result in more people going to jail.
13. More people in jail tends to mean more poverty.
14. More poverty tends to mean more crime.
15. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
16. Welfare
destroysweakens the incentive to work.17. Less work tends to mean more welfare is needed.
18. There’s some kind of cycle here.
————-
19. John Ehrlichman, Richard Nixon’s aide on domestic affairs, said the following in 1996: “the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.”
————-
20. The BLM movement has SOME legitimate grievances.
Mostly true and great reasons to explain the NEED for serious reform in the black communities.
BLM have zero until they can clean up black lives so they can matter more to each other.
End the negative patterns, save lives through prosperity and self respect.
BLM have zero until they can clean up black lives so they can matter more to each other.
So it’s just fine – there’s NO legitimate grievance – that a cop murdered George Floyd?
I just want to be clear here.
MY POINT is that there are two sides to this coin. There are HUGE and TRAGIC and serious generational issues with the cultures in these communities. But there are ALSO serious issues with the police and the way the police respond to and treat members of these communities. There are ALSO problems with the way we (society at large) discriminate and invest (or rather, don’t invest) in these communities. With the inferior schools and in
There are nasty feedback cycles left and right with poverty begetting less education begetting less opportunity begetting more poverty. With crime begetting arrests begetting poverty begetting crime. With fatherlessness begetting delinquent children begetting more crime begetting more fatherlessness. With harsher policing begetting less opportunity begetting more poverty begetting more criminality begetting harsher policing. And so on. And round and round she goes.
You seem to be insisting that we only address the cultural aspects within these communities while completely discounting, writing off, and ignoring anything and everything else.
The problems started long ago Mathius. BLM is a relatively new group that formed under Obama.
George Floyd’s killer will have his day in court.
BLM needs to clean there side up, it would end all this nonsense.
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/379223/#respond
Uh oh….Miami, you have a problem. In 6 years, 29% of your city will be permanently underwater. Bloomberg said so…..
I feel this needs more attention:
John Ehrlichman, Richard Nixon’s aide on domestic affairs, said the following in 1996: “the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.”
I know this is old news.. but thoughts?
He’s a nobody with an opinion, who cares?
He was the aide to the President of the United States when they started the War on Drugs…. seems to me that his recollection of the thinking at the time might have some value…
The war on drugs, like poverty, is a complete failure.
I’m not saying this is Mathius… but I’m not saying this isn’t Mathius, either.. anyway, posting this for the shirt.
I’m not saying these are Mathius and Canine Weapon, but I’m not saying these AREN’T Mathius and Canine Weapon, either..
The war on drugs, like poverty, is a complete failure.
Was it?
Perhaps it was a complete success.
That depends, of course, on what you believe the actual goal of these “wars” were.
No relevance on anything to a Nixon White House……that man was beyond corruption. He started a new Chapter.
Two questions:
(A) Generally speaking, for any given situation, is a person/suspect/etc more likely to be killed by the police if they are black?
(B) Do the police do an adequate job of eliminating the bad apples from within their ranks?
No on both, stats back it up
I’d love to see these stats of yours.. maybe you can point me in the right direction?
The first has long ago been debunked. Your a big boy, find it yourself.
The second is simply common sense. Bad cops, like bad teachers are protected by liberal unions.
I did post the latest FBI stats, Sir Mathius, but you chose to use a per capita basis, which we both know is not an accurate picture of anything, to disprove something. If a statistician wants to prove something, anything, they can manipulate the figures to show anything you want. I can use the same FBI figures to make a per capita statement that a black person is 50% more likely to commit a crime than any other race.
(A) A Giant Hawk circles over the Mathius farm looks down and sees his 3 chickens, 2 pigs, and 1 goat. Over the next week, the hawk swoops down, (Rodan style), and nabs a chicken, then a pig, and then a goat. So Mathius assumes that if 33 1/3% of his chickens were taken, 50% of his pigs were taken, and then 100% of his goats were taken, that the Giant Hawk will naturally attack a goat more often, then attack the pigs next, and then attack the chickens less because the per capita percentages are higher. I reject this form of assumption because it is not reliable. The hawk was hungry.
(B) NO…the police do NOT do an adequate job of “policing” their own. This is well established and does not take a set of percentages or anything to figure out.
Statistical analysis would tell you No to the first., Gross numbers are deceptive since FBI stats show most crime is done by a specific minority. Ergo, most police confrontations will be with that minority. Further ergo MOST killings will be in that minority community. For example in 2019 somewhere between 9 and 15 unarmed blacks were killed by cops. but 25 whites were killed. However, blacks represent slightly over 12 % of teh population and whites over 61%. Proportionately MORE blacks are killed than whites!
Cops do a lousy job of policing themselves, doctors do a lousy job of policing themselves, lawyers do a lousy job of policing themselves. Generally speaking I would assume MOST tribes do a poor job of policing themselves. Certainly the folks at the Pulitzer committee do!
Beautiful.
I’m just lacking that “statistical analysis”… I completely agree that it’s complicated, which is why I asked “all things being equal.”
I suspect the answer is much like the “wage gap” for women.. if you discount the CHOICES women make (eg which jobs, and taking time off to raise children, etc), then it nearly vanishes. I’ve seen a lot of analysis on this, and I seem to remember the answer is that, controlling for these kinds of things, the wage gap reduces to something like 95 cents on the dollar. Which is much better than the bogus 79/100 they like to throw around.
But that doesn’t change the fact that there’s still something wrong there, right? There still IS a wage gap… it’s NOT equal pay for equal work.
I’d SUGGEST (without proof) that, while the kinds of claims being thrown around by BLM et al are almost certainly insane, that there is still SOME bias in the system… maybe just a few extra percent, I don’t know.. but something.
Mathius
University of Washington study found that cops did not shoot black bad guys as fast as they shot white bad guys in field testing. The added time of hesitation for black targets was enough to get the cops shot dead.
cops did not shoot black bad guys as fast
It’s probably a problem with target acquisition at night…
(A) A person is more likely to be killed by police if they RESIST ARREST. Especially if they use a weapon to resist arrest.
(B) Nope.
Can you please retry question (A)?
(A) No. A person is more likely to be killed by police if they RESIST ARREST. Better?
I will follow up later if I’m not too busy tonight.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/officer-allegedly-killing-suspect-choke-hold
Opinions , lots of info here, curious what everyone thinks.
For some reason I always thought Gotham City was lampooning NYC. Apparently all this time they meant it to be Seattle. No Batman here but definitely a whole lot of Jokers.
https://q13fox.com/2020/06/10/trump-to-inslee-durkan-on-seattle-protests-take-back-your-city-now-if-you-dont-do-it-i-will/
Bunch of virtue signaling assholes.
Just a reminder: “they do it, too” isn’t a defense of him doing it.
At least they didn’t gas a peaceful protest in order to stage that absurd photo op.
Well, They didn’t use gas, so that lie can rest now. Second, the Crats wouldn’t have the courage to push back protestors who are throwing things at them (which is not peaceful).
They didn’t use gas, so that lie can rest now.
Except that they did.
https://www.businessinsider.com/park-police-contradict-the-white-house-on-tear-gas-usage-on-protesters-2020-6
Second, the Crats wouldn’t have the courage to push back protestors who are throwing things at them (which is not peaceful).
Just to be clear here.. I want to make sure I understand your argument….
The legal peaceful protesters who got driven off from their legal protesters for the President’s virtue signaling bullshit photo op campaign ad are “not peaceful” because, when the police showed up and aggressively drove them off, a handful of people within the crowd (allegedly) threw water bottles. And this was so threatening that it justified pepper balls, rubber bullets, etc?
Maybe the liberals aren’t the ones lacking courage here.
I don’t usually link this site, but this story is too good to pass up:
https://www.infowars.com/seattle-autonomous-zone-warlord-creates-private-police-force-gets-dubbed-black-george-zimmerman/
Seattle leadership nonexistent. Another glaring example of weak Crat leadership, this will not help them in November.
Black reform needs to happen and the ballot box is a good area. Dump the Crat plantation masters and bring in someone who can help. The Crats have had decades and decades and failed. After 8 years of weak kneed Obama, it should be very clear that Crats cannot represent with success. How many times will Crat cities burn before people see the light through the fires?
I fully expect crime too rise in Crat cities. Cops will be cleaning up the mess, but I don’t expect much in the form of policing or investigating. It may be awhile for that to come back.
If the laws change and cops can then be sued, There may as well not be police. While that isn’t such a bad thing where I live, it would be chaos in cities and Burbs.
Nancy Pelosi wants to remove statues in the Capital who were Confederates. Nancy, they were Democrats, just like you. Be careful, you’ll be next.
Joe Biden has a horrible history with Blacks. After all the burning, looting and destruction, I don’t see Joe getting the black vote, even with a black female VP choice. I guess a whole lot of black folks will be turning white in November when the vote for Trump 😛
Now, the really big question in Seattle will be, exactly WHERE will Madame Guillotine be installed to deal with the people’s justice coming from the People’s courts?
In New York City, I originally thought that the machine would be in City Hall Park but on further reflection and as tribute to the French Revolution I suggest, Native Peoples Circle, (formerly Columbus Circle) at 59th Street after the statue is toppled.
And YOU all laughed when I said “Occupy Wall Street” was a dry run!
WHERE will Madame Guillotine be installed to deal with the people’s justice coming from the People’s courts?
Be still my beating heart!
Moderation, please.
To Sir Mathius: I did not like Hamilton because (a) I do not like rap, (2) It was a “black” portrayal of early America and I would view that the same as a “White” portrayal of Roots.” Like an elevator in a outhouse. It did not belong.
Now, I did not see Hamilton on broadway…..I saw it from the confines of my home on a public channel. I watched it because there were glowing reviews that I read about it being a musical. I was very disappointed. I also know about Lin-Manuel Miranda and his satire and I understand that New York likes satire. But, a black George Washington? James Madison? Not to mention a dancing, strutting, jump around black Thomas Jefferson? I know it was supposed to be art and satire and would expect nothing else from New York, but this was over the top for me. I think the story line was lost. However, it is what it is. I am surprised that the run did not last longer. In Dallas, much to my surprise, it was a major flop.
Now, you asked what I did like…..I have only been to New York twice. I saw Les Miserables , Cats, The Music Man, 42nd St., and Amadeus. All on broadway. The order in which I liked the plays were…(1) Cats, (2) 42nd St, (3) The Music Man, (4) Amadeus, (5) Les Miserables. I am very partial to musicals but Hamilton missed the mark for me.
Funny fact about New York when it rains……….cannot find a cabby anywhere. We grabbed a horse drawn carriage and sat under a blanket and we beat every cabby to the theater. I tipped the driver a little extra because I know that he made several “short cuts” to the theater that, as he put it, were not Kosher. And it was in a rain.
But, a black George Washington? James Madison? Not to mention a dancing, strutting, jump around black Thomas Jefferson?
I was mostly thrown by a large black Marquis de Lafayette.
Not sure why, but that threw me a lot more than anyone else.
Fun anecdote about the good Marquis: Lafayette once spent 10 days at Monticello with Jefferson. After he departed, Jefferson had to replenish nearly all of the red wines in his cellar.
You are correct on a large black Marquis de Lafayette.
Now, reverse this thing….can you see a George C Scott as the lead in Roots?
————————————–
Also, I answered your issue on stats but am in exile.
The other night I watched “Tropic Thunder” again. A great premise and a 2/3rd’s great comedy.
Now, Robert Downy’s portrayal of a white Australian actor playing a black sergeant in the movie about a supposed real event was magnificent! He had it NAILED.
My question, despite the movie being a comedy with Downey’s over the top performance as being key do we have to “lose” it because Downy was white?
Now you did it…I have never watched the movie…….now I have to.
The Tom Cruise cameo makes the movie.
I am still in exile……..Damn Pirate.
Hey Colonel! Didja like General Miley’s comments on “I should not have gone to Lafayette Square with the President”? Can his ASS, NOW!
Even Fox is using him by saying that he represents a “serious” break that Trump has with the military. What he represents is a “political” general groomed over the years by the Obama Administration and jumped over others to achieve the rank he has.
This Miley character is EVERY BIT as dangerous as Burt Lancaster’s James Matoon Scott in “Seven Days in May”.
I did not care for his comments but his comments are taken out of context by the media and everyone else. His reason for the apology was not the fact that he disagrees with the policies of Trump. The media, as usual, has turned this around. He apologized for it because it gave the impression among many that the military was involved in internal politics. There never should have been a military person involved in this while wearing the uniform. I did not like his appearance there because it made the military seem involved in politics and that is a no no……but he is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It would have been perfectly acceptable if he had been there in a civilian suit.
He has quite an exemplary career record. Several of his commands have been major combat units and he is a master jumper, CIB, French parachutist, 5th Special Forces ( my outfit ), 82nd Airborne…etc.
His mistake was appearing in uniform….that is all.
well, 3 of the 9 are true……Clapper and Allen and Crozier. You will have to point me to two other statements, however…..the one on the Joint Chiefs and the last one about his knowledge of offense and defense.
Joint Chiefs: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/01/17/trump-blasted-top-military-generals-as-a-bunch-of-dopes-and-babies-according-to-new-book/
Will find the other one after lunch, but, well, you know he’s said this or some variation of this 100 times.
well, thank you for the link. First problem I see, it is being written in a book. That, alone, makes this suspect to me.
He called Afghanistan a “loser war” and told generals assembled there that “you don’t know how to win anymore.” Why is this wrong? I happen to agree.
Mattis, a former Marine Corps general who still remains popular among members of the military, stepped down from his Cabinet post about nine months later, citing differences with Trump over support for foreign allies. So, he had differences with Trump. Does that make Mattis right? No, he had differences and took his toys and went home. I know generals. They do not like to be questioned.
During the course of the meeting, the authors wrote, Trump also suggested charging “rent” to South Korea for U.S. military forces positioned there and suggested that NATO countries owed America direct payments totaling hundreds of millions of dollars You of all people, should like this one. Is there something wrong with this comment?
But the book authors said the incident led to a strained relationship between top generals and Trump, and the eventual departure of several high-ranking officials who were upset over the administration’s policies. This is as it should be. If some of the general’s did not like his policies….then leave and they did. Would you expect Trump to change his ways simply because a general does not like his policies?
So, this is about a book where even Mattis will not comment on it. Reached by Military Times, Mattis declined comment on the new book.
Tonight Lou Dobbs used clips of James Mmatoon Scott to explain what’s been happening! Hah!
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=387662
Opinions?
VH,
Loved this article – thanks!
it isn’t a race problem. It is a government problem.
Why can’t it be about BOTH?
Our governments, in our names but without our explicit approval, have given law enforcement in this country far too much power over us. From confiscatory civil forfeiture laws to ridiculous speeding fines to $85 parking tickets to byzantine laws of every flavor; if the cops want to charge you with something that will cost you money and often your freedom, and sometimes your life, they can. Because that parking ticket can easily turn into hundreds of dollars, and then a failure-to-appear means a warrant, and a warrant may result in an arrest with guns drawn.
Can I get a hallelujah?
I obey the law (speeding excepted)
::innocent expression::
The cops who block traffic while getting a cup of coffee, or speed around like maniacs when there is no rush, or roust idiotic teenagers, and a thousand other examples of petty exercise of the state’s coercive power
Oh, I get so pissed when I see a cop turn without signaling.
It’s literally the easiest thing in the world to do, and keeps everyone safer, and I would get a $200 ticket for it and maybe points. But they just do it with impunity.
GAAAaaaAAAaAAaAAAa!!!aaaA!!!!111!!!!!
And seemingly like clockwork, whenever there is a critical mass of events that pushes the majority to question the way law enforcement is structured and trained and used, along comes a lunatic response from the hard Left that pushes many of us firmly back into law enforcement’s corner.
Maybe… but shouldn’t you be responsible for your own opinions? Why does the hard left’s insanity mean you have to take up a racially polar opposite view?
If they say “defund the police,” you don’t have to automatically – reflexively – take the position that “the police are perfect saints and nothing at all should change.” The argument can be between “defund the police” and “serious overhaul of the police” which is completely reasonable. And it’s an argument that “serious overhaul” would win. And that would result in a benefit for everyone.
It’s not really “taking personal responsibility” if you blame the left for “pushing you into law enforcement’s corner” when you know you shouldn’t be in their corner and wouldn’t be, except because you (the royal “you”) feel some need to oppose the left. Sounds like just another “Derangement Syndrome.”
Imagine a measured and rational response to recent events…we would be having one of those “national conversations” about policing in America,
Maybe… but maybe every time the “hard left” has tried to have this argument they get shut down? Maybe they’ve been trying to be calm and reasoned for a long time and haven’t gotten anywhere?
Maybe when you do something like try to kneel during the Anthem, the President of the United States calls you a “son of a bitch” at his rallies?
Maybe.. just maybe… the “hard left” has BEEN trying to have this debate and the country has refused to engage in it until they just hit their breaking point?
Maybe, at some point, given their perception of the situation, they saw a video of a subdued black man get murdered in broad daylight by police and just hit their limit? Honestly, while I don’t completely agree with all things BLM, I find it very hard to blame them for their perceptions and reactions. If anything, honestly, I think they’ve showed remarkable restraint. Frankly, I’m surprised we’re not in the middle of a full-blown race war.
“They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”
I motion that this be made the official motto of the Democratic Party.
I have no problem saying that racism is a part of the problem. That isn’t what is being promoted. Systemic racism is what I’m being asked to buy into and promote. So they can make ridiculous demands. Not gonna happen.
While we look at what cops do that pisses us off, perhaps we should give them credit for all the good things they do, many things we can’t or don’t want to do for ourselves. Seems only fair.
First, most people aren’t claiming the police are saints. Second, I’m not taking up for the police because the left’s against them. I’m simply refusing to support and promote the insanity of the arguments and demands that come with them. You might notice that both parties are coming up with bills to rein in police power. We’ll have to wait and see what they say.
And maybe every time the hard left tries to introduce this subject, the same insane accusations and demands come with them.
That isn’t what is being promoted. Systemic racism is what I’m being asked to buy into and promote. So they can make ridiculous demands. Not gonna happen.
It’s hard to say “what’s being promoted” since this isn’t really an “organized” thing. There are no “leaders” here. There’s no Committee to issue demands and set the agenda.
So some people, no doubt, thing this is on par with Southern slavery. And others think it’s up there with the Pogroms. But I’d be willing to bet that most of them just think it’s a shitty situation and they’re fed up.
As for “systemic racism,” that just means it’s “in the system.” That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s ubiquitous or speak to how pronounced it is. Just that that cycle of criminal justice seems to be set up in such a way that there’s a SYSTEMATIC effect on black people. And, frankly, I think this is hard to argue against. That there’s SOME there there.
While we look at what cops do that pisses us off, perhaps we should give them credit for all the good things they do, many things we can’t or don’t want to do for ourselves
This is actually one of the things “they” want.
They want to split off “cops” from many of the other services they provide.
For example, any kind of call related to an overdose or drug use to the cops is going to bring cops on alert, looking for criminals, when maybe what is needed are medics.
Similarly, mental health issues are sent to the cops (and then the jails) when they really should be given to some kind of case-worker and then a psych ward.
First, most people aren’t claiming the police are saints. Second, I’m not taking up for the police because the left’s against them.
I was being hyperbolic.. sorry if that wasn’t clear. I know text (especially the walls of it I throw up) can lose that kind of nuance.
And I certainly wasn’t accusing YOU, personally, of such a thing… rather objecting to the article’s position. The author says “along comes a lunatic response from the hard Left that pushes many of us firmly back into law enforcement’s corner.”
That as much as admits that “since you said it X, “maybe of us” now firmly insist that it’s the polar opposite of X.”
I’m simply refusing to support and promote the insanity of the arguments and demands that come with them.
Seems reasonable.
You might notice that both parties are coming up with bills to rein in police power. We’ll have to wait and see what they say.
My guess is that, at the federal level, the left’s will be absurdist utopian pipe dreams and the right’s will be toothless and do-nothing.
At the local and state level, we can expect some states to completely tear down the police departments and rebuild them from scratch. Some will up the community services they offer. Some will do nothing. And some, contrarian, locations will double-down on “tough on crime” just to stick it to the libs.
There will be absolutely no movement whatsoever on fixing the fact that there are so many laws that we’re all criminals and the police and arrest virtually anyone at any time.
And maybe every time the hard left tries to introduce this subject, the same insane accusations and demands come with them.
Maybe.. but I don’t remember any crazy demands when Kapernac (sp?) was taking his knee. But I sure do remember the apoplexy from the right.
Put yourself in the shoes of the left… that’s a pretty mild, peaceful, way of protesting. To make his point that there’s a problem and it needs to be addressed… and then to see the amount of hate and vitriol and apoplexy from the right..? To be called a son of a bitch by the President of the United States?!? Put yourself in their shoes.. do you feel that their milder approach does anything? Maybe you’d feel it’s time to go big? And then maybe, at least, you’ll get some of what you want.
It is a conundrum,…..
It’s a puzzlement!
Put yourself in the shoes of the left… that’s a pretty mild, peaceful, way of protesting. To make his point that there’s a problem and it needs to be addressed… and then to see the amount of hate and vitriol and apoplexy from the right..? To be called a son of a bitch by the President of the United States?!? Put yourself in their shoes.. do you feel that their milder approach does anything? Maybe you’d feel it’s time to go big? And then maybe, at least, you’ll get some of what you want.
This sure sounds like a justification to me….
As to Kaepernick……You are a man of stats and you like to manipulate them….look at his stats……..he is a second rate quarterback at best.
I would not hire him for three reasons…(1) He is a second rate quarterback, as I said. I would rather hire a top college quarterback that has more years left, (2) I do not like his attitude when the NFL did Kow Tow to him and set up a practice session just for him and he snubbed it to set up his own, and (3) I do not agree with his politics and personally feel that it affects his playing quality.
In my opinion, he is not a team player.
Te he he he
Now, that is funny.
Does anybody see anything wrong with this statement?
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol of racism and division in this country, having flown above the pro-slavery Confederate States of America during the Civil War.
… No…?
::dives into foxhole::
No need for a foxhole…..
Two things…does this imply that there were some non pro slavery states and the other thing, the Confederate battle flag did not fly over any state, save one….Georgia.
So, if the Battle flag….is the big controversy…..would the state flag that flew during this time period be the same controversy? The main Texas flag that flew over Texas during this time did not incorporate the Battle Flag at all as did several of the State flags….so, as a matter of compromise, would anyone find a State Flag during this time offensive……or should we just erase history as if it never existed.
The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans’ groups.
Yea… all of that is great, but it doesn’t argue against what you wrote…
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol of racism […] in this country,
Like it or not, it IS a symbol of racism…. to many.
That YOU don’t see it that way doesn’t make it not a symbol of racism… to THEM.
Much like, if you are Hindu a Swastika might not have any racist implications, but to others, it very much is a symbol of racism.
The Confederate flag has long been a symbol […] and division in this country
Hard to see how it’s not seen as a symbol of division in this country.. it’s the… battle flag.. what “battle,” you might ask? Well, the battle AGAINST the United States of America.
I’ll admit I’m not overly knowledgeable on the topic because, frankly, I don’t give a shit.
Nooo… not one solitary shit do I give.
But I DO see it as a flag of division…. and again.. the question isn’t really “what is intended” or “what do the people flying the flag think” but “is it a symbol of”… and in the minds of many, the answer to that is “yes.”
having flown above the pro-slavery Confederate States of America during the Civil War.
D13 asserts it was flown over pro-slavery states.
To my knowledge, it was.. was it not?
D13 argues against this that it was never formally adopted, nor was it flown over statehouses. But that is not a refutation of the thing with which I agreed.
——————-
I think, more generally, you have to see that the flag is – more or less – a symbol of the South’s rebellion against the United States. (and of them getting their asses handed to them).
Whatever OTHER associations you attach to the flag, at the end of the day, was the flag NOT a flag of the PRO-CONFEDERACY fighting a war AGAINST the United States? Does that not, by definition, make it an enemy flag?
——————-
As I may have mentioned, however, I don’t give a single flying fuck. If people want to fly the flag of the losing team, and imagine that there WEREN’T racist drivers of the Civil War (as distinct from claims that the war was “about” slavery rather than slavery being a component of why they were fighting)… well, I just don’t care.
But, by GOD, I don’t want to hear anyone flying this flag gripe about Millenials and their “participation trophies” ever again.
Touchy subject for you…….for someone who does not give a whatever……but the battle flag is not the subject matter,,,,,I asked the question of state flags that flew during the same time period that have no reference to the battle flag.
I, personally, do not care about the Battle flag…..Texas did not fly it except at Galveston and it did not last long. I am looking at the symbolic reasoning about this. Should we, as Americans, hate the Union Jack of England? It was an enemy flag. It is only a symbol.
But here is what actually made my Dr Pepper go flat. First, I will have to say I am not much of a NASCAR fan……but, because of these protesting issues, people wish to attack something that happened in 1860-65 under the pretense of this police brutality thing. So, a lot of things are going to have to stop because SOME people are offended. But, back to my original thing. Now, blacks see the battle flag offensive and it has been removed from NASCAR tracks. BUT, now they want another symbol to replace it. A BLM flag. Both are symbols and I find the BLM flag just as offensive. But let us go a little further. The race cars used to be painted in a variety of ways….some with confederate flags. So, they are going to take them off and then, all of a sudden, there is a BLM car that can fly its flag and be painted as such. I see this as hypocrisy. Do not want controversial things on cars…great…I am on board. But make it even…..BLM is a violent movement (my perception, and I am entitled to it)…so what is the difference……actually I am not wanting an answer…..just blowing off a little steam.
By the way….you must take down that reference you made to Gone With the Wind…..that is now considered racist and has been removed from HBO….along with Sleeping Beauty. Sigh.
Make me.
By the way, I’m glad to see that someone clicks on my links… I wonder sometimes if I’m just wasting my time with them.
Should we, as Americans, hate the Union Jack of England? It was an enemy flag. It is only a symbol.
A little bit of Apples and Oranges here.. the Confederacy existed ONLY as a seditious bunch of states at war with the United States of America.
ONLY.
We have a long history with Brittain, and it includes a great deal more than just a war. But it’s not like we’ve been at war for our entire mutual history.
So, they are going to take them off and then, all of a sudden, there is a BLM car that can fly its flag and be painted as such. I see this as hypocrisy.
If you take this AT FACE VALUE, then it’s easy and not hypocritical at all..
They’ve banned a symbol of racism. They’ve endorsed a symbol of demanding equality.
AT FACE VALUE, there really isn’t and shouldn’t be any problem here.
But we all know the world just isn’t so simple.
BLM flag just as offensive.
A) BLM has a flag?
B) I don’t understand why it’s offensive to you? The correct demand is that Black Lives Matter… how is that in any way an offensive idea? It’s not that they matter MORE or they matter to the exclusion of anything else.. .but, really, is it so crazy and offensive to suggest that they matter?
BLM is a violent movement (my perception, and I am entitled to it)
I disagree.
I think it’s a big movement, a disorganized, decentralized movement. And, like any such thing, there are going to be bad actors and opportunists. But I think the fact that tens of thousands of people are protesting and there aren’t thousands of dead while people is proof that either (A) these people have no idea how to fight or (B) the bad actors are in the vast minority and that it’s somewhat unfair to paint the whole with that brush.
actually I am not wanting an answer…..just blowing off a little steam.
Well then, I can help with that… Something to make an old fart like you smirk.
Well, I think I’ve found the perfect summary of how I feel about this topic….
LOL…funny. I feel the same about what is happening today,
I just read about this so called autonomous zone in Seattle. if what I read is true…then I find this unbelievable.
It is true. I think I’ve said multiple times that there is nothing more that could surprise me this year….I continue to be proven wrong.
Do I even want to know..?
Apparently over here we can takeover Government/City land and declare it as our own. I didn’t know this before…..buuuut now that I do…
“I declare all Washington State Forests and Parks to be mine, and I demand that people bring me food and water. From this moment forth It shall be known as the No Dumbass Zone.”
Did I do it right?
Yes, and while we’re taking over, I’d like to claim the NW 1/4 of the Lower Peninsula. And it won’t be “papers, please”, it will be ” Where’s the beef?”
hahaha
gman, have you ever listened to Wendy Bell on KDKA radio. My niece keeps posting her on FB and it is fun to listen.
No Sir, I have not. KDKA is down in Pittsburgh, out of my radio reach. I guess I can stream, but not during the summer 😛
@ JAC’s Daughter,
I can only suggest a new screen name that doesn’t include JAC in it. I think that may be the problem.
Hmmm interesting. Thanks, gman!
@gman,
I just spoke with an online tech rep about my account. Here is what he said:
If the site admin doesn’t want comments to go into moderation, you need to ask them to disable it by following the instructions at https://en.support.wordpress.com/settings/discussion-settings/ in the “Before A Comment Appears” section.
Let me know if this works. If not, i’ll just try creating a whole new profile. 🙂
Ok. Strange it is only happening to you.
Conspiracy?! haha
I think it’s fixed now, thank you!!
Well….Now The Village People have kicked the cop to the curb.
And can anyone explain why Lady Antebellum would change the name to Lady A?
(no, not you Mathius)
Out. Of. Control.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dAP9kauUgJwXCaEUA
Here is some of the problem…….I watched an interview with this Lady Antebellum band last night (I have never heard of them before) and they explained that the name was changed because of its association with slavery. They were then asked how it was associated with slavery. One of the band members admitted that he did not know but was told that it needed changing.
So, I looked it up and here is what I found. Lady Antebellum is a country group formed in Nashville, Tennessee in 2006. … The name Antebellum comes from when the group were photographing “antebellum” homes. The antebellum (‘pre-war’) architectural style describes the large plantation homes in the American South.
The name originally referred to architecture. And now, it is associated with “plantations” which has now become a nasty word because, somehow, plantation is completely associated with slavery.
I particularly liked the following quote. That’s the major problem with the antebellum aesthetic: It was built on the backs of slave labor. While the original term wasn’t offensive, “antebellum” as we use it today glorifies a painful period in our history when Black people were enslaved by white people. It’s important to remember that architecture, fashion, and even language don’t live in a vacuum. They’re contextual and evolve along with our society. Elements of our past we may have thought acceptable or even romanticized at one time have been revealed as problematic today. That includes the term antebellum.
What a crock of shit. So, I guess the next name to be erased will be Colonial style homes. But let us take a look at something that is being conveniently overlooked and blamed on the “white” community.
legal slave owner in American history was a black tobacco farmer named Anthony Johnson. SHOCK!!!!
William Ellison was a very wealthy black plantation owner and cotton gin manufacturer who lived in South Carolina (not North Carolina). According to the 1860 census (in which his surname was listed as “Ellerson”), he owned 63 black slaves, making him the largest of the 171 black slaveholders in South Carolina
There were approximately 319,599 free blacks in the United States in 1830. Approximately 13.7 per cent of the total black population was free. A significant number of these free blacks were the owners of slaves. The census of 1830 lists 3,775 free Negroes who owned a total of 12,760 slaves.
Brutal black-on-black slavery was common in Africa for thousands of years. The phenomenon of human beings enslaving other human beings goes back thousands of years, but not just among blacks, and not just in Africa.
While there had been a slave trade within Africa prior to the arrival of Europeans, the massive European demand for slaves and the introduction of firearms radically transformed west and central African society. A growing number of Africans were enslaved for petty debts or minor criminal or religious offenses or following unprovoked raids on unprotected villages. An increasing number of religious wars broke out with the goal of capturing slaves. European weapons made it easier to capture slaves.
Well, obviously we can fill volumes with slavery issues. It was bad and it is bad. But it was not and is not a “whites” only problem.
Now, just so all of you can say YEA!..I am done with this talk. We have to live with snowflakes, so we may as well figure out how to get along with them.
Do we really have to live with snowflakes? I mean, can’t we ship them off to another planet or something??
It may be time for US to go to another planet….and then establish a proper immigration system.
Don’t worry, according to global warming, the temperature is rising. Snowflakes melt at higher temperatures.
Live with them? Maybe. But we don’t have to tolerate their bullshit.
Yes, you do….freedom of speech.
But Colonel, facts that don’t fit the narrative will be denied by the snowflakes. Truth don’t matter to the Left, just their feelings.
There is a new thread posted.
The English also sold Irish, Scots and prisoners into slavery. Many others indentured themselves for passage to the colonies. Many of these white slaves were worked to death. The oldest branch of my family came here in 1710. They were German Palatines who were camped on the Hudson and made to work in the forests to make pitch for the Navy. The effort failed. They British promised them sustenance but nearly starved them to death. Some moved away from the river and treated with the Mohawks to settle in the woods and start there own communities and farms. In about 1725, the remainder were given land along the Mohawk River thus to act as a buffer between the French and English colonies. These are the people who suffered through the bloody Iroquois raids during the Revolution. Upstate NY was severely depopulated during the war.
Mathius, in response to your two questions and your continued discussion on systemic racism with the police, I’d like to offer the following links and commentary.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883
I know WSJ requires a subscription (which is puzzling, or maybe a puzzlement, because I don’t have a subscription. Sometimes I can access this article and sometimes I can’t.) Anyway I will copy/past some of the points of the article in case you don’t have access.
“A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.”
Did you catch that? Crime and suspect behavior determine most police actions. I mean, who woulda thought that??
“The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites…there were 7,407 black homicide victims…those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.” 0.1%!?
By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.
The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency and the pattern is repeating itself.
This is the research.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877
And I also assume that you are aware of these statistics.
“In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.”
Now I have two questions.
A) Why can’t we teach African-Americans that if you break the law, you will (most of the time) get arrested? Instead of pretending that the criminal is the victim?
B) Why can’t we teach Afican-Americans that if you resist arrest, you have a significantly higher risk of getting hurt/killed? Instead of pretending the violent criminal is the victim?
I linked a Rubin Report video of Coleman Hughes. He pointed out that the children of black Jamaican immigrants are visually indistinguishable from American blacks but are far more successful in our society. They suffer from the same level of discrimination but have higher education levels and earn over 50% more than American blacks. It is not discrimination that is holding them back but the black culture which they can control..
I actually know a woman that emigrated from Jamaica. She got an entry level job at the local hospital while attending college for a nursing degree. She graduated nursing school and almost immediately started working as an RN at the same hospital. She continued her education and is now a nurse practitioner. She is a very nice woman with a good work ethic, good personality, and very intelligent. She has not, to my knowledge, had any problems with the police. She also isn’t out breaking laws and resisting arrest. So I can, and do, believe that it is a cultural problem.
Kamala Harris is Jamaican. I was friends with a physics prof. from Jamaica. Real nice guy and could play good folk music.
Oh, I think I’m in moderation. Is it the Pirate? Or is gman really a fascist?
We may never know..
Or….is G Man and the Pirate……..the same. :::shudder:::
By the way, I’m glad to see that someone clicks on my links… I wonder sometimes if I’m just wasting my time with them. I always click on your links…..never miss them.
I may not always read his entire wall of text, but I always click on the links also.
Seattle Mayor Mathius…………What are you going to do?
Seattle Police Chief Mathius………..What are you going to do?
Washington Governor Mathius………..What are you going to do?
President Mathius……What are you going to do about Seattle?
Just out on the news……..rape, robbery, and theft has increased 300 percent in the autonomous zone. Shop owners have closed and boarded their shops because they are being extorted for protection. A lot of the residents are claiming that they have to show ID’s to get past the “People” guards.
Yes the autonomous country of Chaz has border wall and guards. Do they lock children in cages too?
But according to the mayor, taking over 6 city blocks and a police precinct station is not an insurrection but a “block party” of sorts and that the 1st amendment protects their rights to take over.
Now, I wonder what has happened to the arms lockers in the precinct.
I further wonder if their “border guards” are armed with the shotguns and such from the police cars and weapons locker. Inquiring minds want to know.
I am still trying to get a handle on the fact that these folks are supposed to be against law and order but they have created their own form of law and order. This same group that does not want ID checks and such are checking Id’s.
Hypocrites one and all. I would cut the power and water, set up a blockade and starve them out. No one in. All those that come out would be arrested for whatever crimes they can be charged with. Unfortunately, I heard the mayor had moved in portapotties.
I hear the police cleared out the evidence room and other records before they abandoned the building. I assume they took the arms with them. Sounds preplanned. The police chief has stated it was not a police decision.
I have friends who worked at the Seattle East Precinct, now known (due to vandalism) as The Seattle’s People Department, and they were instructed to clear the entire precinct out. To my knowledge all evidence, equipment, computers, etc. have been removed from the building.
There is word that if you have different opinions than the citizens of CHAZ they will use violent, i’m sorry I meant peaceful, force to by “love taps” according to their warlord Raz. These “love taps” have been seen as what look like a beat down, but we know they are friendly people so we must agree they are “love taps”. In addition to this, the citizens of CHAZ also have a list of demands for the city of Seattle, which don’t seem racist at all (eye roll). They have also demanded, I mean kindly asked, for local business’ with the borders of CHAZ to pay a fee to continue operating.
https://www.newsweek.com/list-demands-seattle-autonomous-zone-includes-black-doctors-black-patients-end-prisons-1510323
So we have a group of people who have taken over a part of our city, where not all are welcome, and have a list of demands to give it back. Yet our Mayor says “Lawfully gathering and expressing First Amendment rights, demanding we do better as a society, and providing true equity for communities of color is not terrorism. It’s patriotism,” – Durkan
I know i’m new to this, but someone PLEASE tell me how this is not an act of terrorism and extortion?
GMan
Daughter left you a link on how to fix this moderation issue. I tried to follow but didn’t succeed. Will have more time later if you can’t do it.
There is an option that allows anyone’s comments to just pass through for approval if they have been approved once before. I thought that is what we have but links do seem to be a trigger for the “spam” to take over.
Let me know what you find. Will have more time around Monday or Tuesday.
Holy shit, you cannot make this up….
“One of the active debates we had over the past week was about the use of the word “looting” to describe the destruction of property,” Pearlstein said. “The feeling among the black journalists at The Los Angeles Times who frankly educated the rest of us to the fact that looting had a pejorative racist connotation and that comparing it to the kind of behavior of the police and the kind of behavior that we witnessed really was a false equivalency and yet it was one that we were making as journalists if you picked up a copy of our paper.”National Association of Black Journalists president Dorothy Tucker called the conversation “interesting,” adding that the word “riot” falls in a “similar” category as the word “looting.”
So, now, when the riots and rampage start, they are no longer looting or rioting….they are “relieving the rightful owners of their property” and “gathering in social confrontation”.
Wow….and they want me to be sympathetic to their cause.
There is a constant effort to redefine the language so the opposition is constantly off balance and fighting the wrong thing. Marriage and gender are two things that redefined. Now it is looting and rioting which is justified release of tensions for decades of mistreatment. This a long with the push to genuflect before them and to confess our white privilege will continue unless we fight back. See Dan Bongino’s podcast today. He would not say what happened but was clearly upset. They are obviously going after his family. They are trying to defund Tucker Carlson as well. I loved his Chaz parody last night. I am torn between two strategies, 1) send in the 82nd airborne or 2) let the locals solve it and show the rest of it how bad it can get. Unfortunately the latter gives them a win and it will only be repeated elsewhere. The best solution is for the population to wake up and overwhelmingly vote Democrats out of office at all levels.
Mathius, is this really the country you want?
I vote for option 1
I’ve come to the conclusion, that if Mathius ever throws up his hands and says he can’t support the democrats anymore, the country will be saved.
https://pjmedia.com/columns/mark-ellis/2020/06/12/the-left-has-gone-from-orange-man-bad-to-white-man-bad-and-its-going-to-backfire-n520508
Well, it should backfire. Not sure it will.