Will “Obstruction of Justice” be his final downfall?
It appears that more and more pundits are suggesting that Mr. Trump is going to be jailed or is at least in serious jeopardy due to “obstruction of justice”. This creates the same question we all had before about how do you obstruct justice if not actual crime is committed. Well that is a glitch in our system, in my humble opinion. The Govt. Attorneys can order you to do things absent an obvious crime, like subpoena documents. Then if you do not produce the documents requested you can be prosecuted for obstruction.
Which leads us to Mr. Trump. I finally saw a copy of the subpoena for the Mara Lago documents this spring. A copy of the document can be found here:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22272926-trump-grand-jury-subpoena
Note this is a “grand jury” subpoena. On its face this would indicate a potential “criminal investigation”. However, the U.S. Attorney can issue this subpoena without actually having any grand jury aware of it. But it still indicates a criminal investigation is underway, or is being considered (According to Findlaw and some other sites I read). Also note that this subpoena is ONLY about “Classified” documents. It lists just about if not every type of classification you can imagine.
We now know that all of the documents requested by this subpoena were NOT produced. Because the FBI found more in the August raid. So on the surface this looks like a slam dunk. Especially if you are among those who don’t like the man, and that is putting it mildly. Nobody has asked why the DOJ was issuing a “grand jury subpoena” in the first place. Meaning they suspected a crime. The documents in question are covered under the Presidential Records act. As many pundits, the honest ones, have pointed out, there is no enforcement provision in the records act. The Archives can scream for the documents but have no legal means of getting them back. Historically, this has required give and take between the ex-POTUS and the Archivist. There are reports that the Archivist contacted the DOJ after either not getting the materials they wanted, or after they retrieved some boxes and found “classified documents” among the contents. I suppose it would seem reasonable to have concerns about security, if the Archivist felt the documents at Mara Lago were not secure. But this really doesn’t explain why the Archivist went to DOJ and it especially doesn’t explain why DOJ decided to go with a “grand jury subpoena”, which again indicates suspicion of a crime, instead of just working with Mr. Trump, or the designated “Custodian”.
It is obvious from the released, and partly redacted, affidavit supporting the search warrant that the DOJ is using the Espionage Act, and others, to indicate a potential “crime”. The inclusion of documents related to obstruction would seem related to the failure to provide the documents originally requested in the subpoena. But the affidavit and the search warrant went far beyond the purpose indicated in the original subpoena. This makes it look like another case of the U.S. Govt. piling on via the DOJ. Something we have long complained about here at SUFA. Or even worse, they used the classified documents issue to gain access to all of Mr. Trump’s records so they can go fishing for things that might be used to harm him politically or feed into the Jan 6th Committee hearings. If the DOJ and FBI had no taint on them from past actions we could dismiss such a theory as absurd. But thanks to their own behavior we can’t. At least not at this time.
It is not clear to me that Mr. Trump could be prosecuted criminally for removing or possessing “classified” documents. Given the Courts ruling on Plenary powers of POTUS over classification. But if he did not follow standard procedure to document his decision it will open him up to even more political persecution and make it more difficult to make a legal defense. It could also make his staff vulnerable to being charged for handling said documents. And once staff members or his lawyers get charged we all know what pressure the DOJ will put on them to spill the beans on anything and everything about Mr. Trump.
I have reached a personal opinion on one part of all this. Given how long it has taken all the TV and Internet “Legal Experts” to start coming together on certain issues, and given how there is NOT uniform agreement on how the criminal laws (espionage) relate to the Presidential Records Act, I think the Judge who issued the search warrant made a big mistake. It looks like the Judge simply took the DOJ’s word for it with respect to their suspicions of “crimes” to justify the warrant.
I also believe that all the classified and other non classified documents, pertaining to Govt. business, in Mr. Trump’s possessions , are the property of the U.S. Government. Per the law they fall under the custody of the National Archives. Mr. Trump, and/or his people, should have been working openly with the Archivist to address concerns about securing the documents. Remember, we still do not know what if any designations the Archivist made about Mara Lago. The Archivist should have been doing the same. This “pissing match” over the documents should not have happened. If Mr. Trump was not cooperating then the Archivist was within her authority to ask someone to retrieve the materials. The Archivist should have gone to a Judge, with the DOJ if needed, and simply secured a Subpoena for ALL Presidential Records. She could have also simply gone to the site with some of her employees and worked with the “Custodian” to secure all the POTUS Documents in a secured room. While they continued their little back and forth dance.
But here is the rub. If this was really about failure to secure the Presidential Records then, why did the subpoena only mention classified documents?
Now with that all said, Mr. Trump’s own bull headedness is the reason he is now in such a pickle. Maybe he will escape this and we find out it really is another attempt to do him in by the Deep State. But more likely, he is going to have egg on his face, and if he escapes criminal charges that egg will cost him a lot of votes in 2024. Of course that once again depends on who the Democrats select to run against him.
Black Flag®
commonman55
d13thecolonel
gman
Just A Citizen
Life of Illusion
Jon Smith
USWeapon
“Of course that once again depends on who the Democrats select to run against him.”
Well, at least you didn’t say “who the Democrats select to” steal the election from him.” 🙂 Everything about that is pure horse duty … dookie howsers … the duce I drop at least once a day.
I guess there’s a point you’re trying to make here … 🙂
This is the kind of stuff that causes so many to think the DOJ is corrupt.
“The DOJ had argued in court that a special master appointment would stall its investigation of Trump and that he did not have the authority to claim executive privilege from his time in the White House since he is no longer in office.”
This is a LIE, as I documented last week. The Judge hearing the argument ruled in Mr. Trump’s favor on the special master request. She stated;
“Prosecutors also said Trump could not claim executive privilege as a former president against the current executive branch, but Cannon said the DOJ’s position “arguably overstates the law.””
Polite way of calling BS on the DOJ lawyers.
Full Story:
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3629821-judge-grants-trumps-request-to-appoint-special-master-to-review-mar-a-lago-documents/
The judge ruling on the special master is a Trump appointee. Surprise, surprise! Doesn’t matter … she released more shit with her stupid rulings that further bury Trump. It’s a pathetic attempt to stall the inevitable. I’m surprised she didn’t rule that he’s still the president, as Q seems to believe.
Who appointed her is not really relevant, especially since it is not relevant when an Obama appointee makes an obnoxious decsion.
As for her decision I found it sound and reasoned. No matter what Mr. Barr thinks or claims. He presumes the FBI and DOJ are above reproach in his comments. We ALL know they are not. So I think she did the right thing.
Obviously the deep state here: 🙂
charlie
You need to slow down, as in greatly reduce, the video links. It bogs down the thread.
Thank you! I thought it might be my laptop because no one else had mentioned slow load times. One time on the last page I timed it. 9 minutes to load the page. I almost gave up. It was different every time though, that’s why I thought it was my machine.
Fair enough.
You just have to love the double standard by the Dems and Reps when it comes to the DOJ, FBI and even Judges now.
They are all corrupt when it goes against you then they are honest as the day is long when with you.
The DOJ and FBI have been abusing their power for decades. Just because this time it is Mr. Trump does not mean they suddenly discovered their moral compass. He deserves the same amount of skepticism as any other person targeted by these agencies.
That too is fair enough. But what about his history of lying through his teeth? Is that to be discarded? Remember that 1) he was the one to make a scene of the “raid” by the FBI (it wasn’t a leak). Everything he’s done since, including his 3 week late request for a special master, has been responded to through court filings that worked against him. I would never trust the government or any of its agencies without skepticism, but in this case, with a pathological liar, it is difficult to ignore the EVIDENCE. No matter if the special master declares executive privilege or not, the FACT is those documents were not Trump’s, nor were the allowed to be stored in, as Barr called it, a country club (or his residence). Whatever happens will be political. One side will feel vindicated and the other cheated. Those determinations have been sanctified by his refusal to admit he lost the election. I should be rooting for him to win for the sake of speeding the plow to this corrupt country’s government eventual collapse, but I do want to see him convicted. The collapse is inevitable anyway.
charlie
Have you seen media film of the FBI raid? I have. How do you think the media knew to have cameras in the area? Now why is Mr. Trump going public in his own defense such an issue with you? Any smart person would do the same, as long as they don’t screw up and give more evidence. Because public statements can be used against you later.
As for Mr. Trump’s history of lying, what does that have to do with anything here? I know you don’t like the guy and you claim that is because of his history, but the truth is you wouldn’t spend a minute on the guy if he hadn’t been elected, and now might be again. And since when do politicians not lie?
Any privileged “private” documents are in Fact Mr. Trump’s and NOT the property of the Govt. Mr. Barr did not get it right in his comments. There are two general categories of documents in the White House, PER THE LAW.
One is Private Records and the other Presidential Records. The former are his to keep and might include privileged documents, like letters with lawyers, etc. His medical and tax records for sure are in this category. This is the primary focus of the Special Master, per the Judges explanation.
The Presidential Records are then segregated into other categories, as determined by POTUS before leaving office. One group is locked up for 25 years. Another for about 5 yrs and another is available to the public immediately. The POTUS records may also include documents that fall under privilege. There being two types in this subgroup. One is any personal correspondence, again such as with lawyers, advising him over matters within his job, if they were not categorized as Personal Documents before leaving. The other is privileged communications between staff and other advisors. This is the secondary area of focus by the Special Master. As the Judge order, the Master is to identify those documents for which there is dispute or potential dispute over privilege.
These are Govt property but not necessarily open to public review nor necessarily review by other agencies, like the FBI or DOJ. Remember, the ARCHIVIST has Custody over these and the release of them is supposed to be with consultation of the ex POTUS. The Archivist is supposed to review and concur over all these designations. As well as approve the site of their location and the person or persons responsible for their supervision.
I have not had time to pull the timeline together for all the back and forth between the Archivist/DOJ/Mr. Trump. But on the surface it appears that the Archivist violated the LAW by not allowing Mr. Trump time to file for an injunction if Federal Court once POTUS denied his Privilege claim. On the other hand, Mr. Trump’s attorneys may have just not filed in which case the denial of privilege stands.
I want to point out one very important thing here. Folks like you are so focused on finding Mr. Trump guilty of something here you have failed to even ask the first question that should have been asked. In fairness, neither have the R’s defending Mr. Trump. That is; Where is the communications between Mr. Trump and the Archivist regarding the packing, shipping, removal, location and storage of the Presidential Records????
This is where this Smack Down Even begins. Yet nobody has uncovered the first moves that eventually led to this years events. Was it really just Mr. Trump’s arrogance, which is not unreasonable to believe, or was there also some misbehavior on the part of the “acting” Archivist?
charlie
Just wanted to add something on Mr. Trump’s history of lying. I do not dismiss it out of hand. But I don’t use it to judge current events. Here is how it goes for me:
Assume they are all lying to better their own positions. What ever those may be. Don’t accept any of it as fact. Then do the homework if possible to find out what is true and not true, or at least what is in the “it depends” category.
On the documents issue I started with reading the laws being cited by everyone involved. I did not pass any judgement on this until after at least doing this much. What I found was that the govt arguments do in fact overstate and in some cased obfuscate the law. It also appears the DOJ is doing its usual thing of shopping for laws to get the guy. I also found some of Mr. Trump’s claims to be a gross overstatement of the law. But some of that is because he and the govt. are not always talking about the same thing. Such as personal documents that are privileged vs. govt documents that have Presidential Privilege. There appears to be legitimate disputes, legally, over the disposition of these documents. That includes those with “classification” marks. Especially this idea that HE could be prosecuted criminally for having them. These are legitimate legal disputes that need to be resolved. But as this goes along it is looking like they will not be.
That is because if the DOJ decides it will benefit them to charge him with Obstruction the rest will fall away and disappear into the background. And that my friend is what I consider a level of corruption on the Govt’s part. The weak link, as we have seen before, is the Courts willingness to grant search warrants and subpoenas to Federal attorneys or the FBI based on very little real evidence. The rely on HONEST affidavits. There is no serious penalty when they later find it was not honest. Usually just a slap on the wrist.
I’m with you until here, JAC: “The weak link, as we have seen before, is the Courts willingness to grant search warrants and subpoenas to Federal attorneys or the FBI based on very little real evidence.”
How much more evidence did the DOJ need AFTER they learned there were still document at his residence/country club (via witnesses)? What was the DOJ or the National Archives supposed to do when Trump was clearly (as Barr put it) “jerking them around?” The FACT is there were still documents in his residence.
This one is for Anita or VH (I forget which) regarding jobs going overseas under Trump. From Bloomberg (not a marxist source): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2020-10-22/supply-chains-latest-the-hard-data-on-trump-s-offshoring-record
Not me on the jobs going overseas. I have to put you in check about Trump waiting 3 weeks to request a Special Master. You’ll notice in the PDF the judge referencing the FACT that SHORTY AFTER THE SEARCH Trump’s counsel REQUESTED the affidavit, a special master, and a list of what was taken and from where it was taken and an opportunity to inspect what was seized. The government rejected his request. THEN counsel filed a MOTION for a special master. But you’ll see in footnote 5 that the REQUEST was rejected on August 9, the morning after the search.
Click to access gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.64.0.pdf
I think the point is, they made no appeal for one and then directly requested one in court. NO big deal. He gave her her job and she was returning the favor. It’ll be a lot worse when the Supreme Court he unbalanced clears him of all convictions.
charlie
I was addressing a “weak link” in the Justice system in a general sense. Grand Juries and Judges asked for search warrants pretty much rubber stamp Fed Attorney’s request. Then we find the DOJ/FBI distorted, obfuscated and even go beyond the warrants. But where it the punishment? Who lost their jobs and/or were sent to jail?
As for the Trump case, I think it still applies. I explained that him having documents is not a “crime”, as in a criminal act. The law has no enforcement mechanism. That is why I said the Archivist should have asked to meet with them and take the GSA over to Mara Lago. Then retrieve the documents. All of them if that is really what they wanted.
I tried to explain that the DOJ jumped to “Classified” documents as their lever. The Judge took their word for the potential violations. Apparently not knowing, or ignoring the Presidential Records Act and its priority over the documents. Classified documents can be and are part of those records. Again, Mr. Trump’s possession of those documents is NOT A CRIME nor an indication of a crime.
I think the DOJ factions looking for revenge against Mr. Trump decided to go with the espionage act and actions over the classified documents. Because even if they can’t win a criminal case the optics are terrible. Easy to damage Mr. Trump in the public eye.
I believe this in part because now their media mouthpieces are moving to “obstruction of justice” as the key crime. Of course, if it was legal for him to have those documents then how is not providing them on a faulty subpoena obstruction? And if you hadn’t figured it out by now this case among many others is why I have a real hard time liking lawyers.
When are Republican candidates going to learn you cannot win by kowtowing to the other side. Especially if it might alienate your base.
Asked at a press conference if he would have objected to the certification of the election results, Oz said that it is the job of the Senate to approve the Electoral College vote and that, had he been in the Senate at the time, he would have done so.
“I would not have objected to it,” Oz said. “By the time the delegates and those reports were sent to the U.S. Senate, our job was to approve it, which is what I would have done.”
I think Mr. Oz displays a lack of deeper understanding about his job as Senator. It is not heir job to rubber stamp stuff just because some Governor put his or her name on it.
But then he is running against someone with actual brain damage. Worse even than Mr. Biden’s. Any bets that the brain damaged Democrat wins???
And when he does, what does that say about the Voters????
Fetterman is a true progressive and in a coma he’s better than Oz. 🙂 OZ, come on, man! The guy is a clown. Not quite the clown Herschel Walker is, but close enough for jazz. And since when does the Executive of a State not have say? When an election is certified by any given state, that’s it, brother. You don’t get to send “fake” ones to overthrow an election. The voters in PA, if they have any sense at all, will not vote a billionaire who lives in New Jersey and has the integrity of a rattlesnake to the Senate.
Just read a summary of the Democrat attack ads on Mr. Laxalt in Nevada. He is running for the Senate. The ad was about abortion. Needless to say they outright lied about his position and did so in a way to inflame the ignorant. Claiming he wants to overturn Nevada law. Which he has denied on several occasions, even stating it is a settled matter in Nevada because over 60% of the voters approved the current law.
To my point. Wouldn’t it be nice if those putting out political ads could QUICKLY be put on trial and convicted of slander for lying about their opponents? I wonder if it would make a difference in how people interpreted them if they knew it was found to be nothing but slander?
OK, I admit I am suffering a few pipe dreams this morning. 🙂
Speaking of pipe dreams……… The R’s take the House and Mr. Biden sends Mrs. Pelosi to Italy. Now wouldn’t that be considered a twofer from our point of view?
I’m not familiar with that particular case, but … there have been a “slew” of Republicans running in November who have backpeddled (and removed from the websites) their previous comments about the Dobbs decision. It seems the SCOTUS has given life to a dead in the water party and at least some republicans running now realized it.
Politicians backpedaling once their pet football gets deflated? Say it ain’t so Charlie.
108F yesterday, 111°F today. Lights are still on.
That’s rough! Hopefully these earlier and earlier sunsets give you guys some relief after dark. 79 here. Still stalling on mowing so I wont have to sweat. 🙂
79°F was our overnight low, it was 113°F at 3:00.
My cell phone is going off every 5 min to warn me to shed power or else. It is 106°F out. the only things running are the water heaters, refrigerators, freezer, swamp cooler and a few fans. Most of the lights are off. But of course the sun is going down and solar is now longer putting out so welcome to the brave new world.
That is brutal weather. Good luck with it. I wish I could convince my wife to move north … she hates the cold. I think if she had a taste of your weather she might change her mind.
As all the carping, moaning, groaning, pontificating and other such gyrations continue on the Mara Lago documents issue there is something I want everyone to keep in mind.
NOON, January 20, 2021. The is the EXACT time that Mr. Trump ceases to be POTUS and Mr. Biden takes over the position. Some will say it is at the time of the oath of office. But the Washington Post claims it is NOON.
So anything Mr. Trump does up to that time is as President. Which means everything he does before that time falls under Presidential Powers and Privileges.
Does not Trump still have his security clearance? If Brennan and Clapper still have theirs, I would assume Trump does as well.
TRay
As I understand it POTUS does not actually have a clearance, incumbent or Ex, neither have one. The Ex POTUS is granted access by the existing POTUS when ever he wants advice or to share something. If Biden does not invite Trump then he does not have access but he does not have to have a “clearance” to go see stuff if invited. It is in essence one of the “Privileges” afforded all ex Presidents.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/judges-order-reveals-fbi-sloppiness-excessive-evidence-collection
Say it ain’t so Joe!
T-Ray.. below..
One other comment before retiring to dinner. Mr. Trump’s public attacks on the DOJ and FBI are NOT JUSTIFICATION for them to keep leaking information to the Press.
They are supposed to be above that. Furthermore, the continuous leaking actually works against their goal of restoring credibility. Especially when the leaks proof false or fruitless.
But regardless, they need to plug the holes in their ship. Why is it they are “prevented from talking to Congress” but they can leak garbage to the Press?
I thank God everyday that McConnell kept Garland on the back bench. My fear is one of the R’s on the bench croak and Biden appts Garland while the D’s control the Senate. Another reason to get out there and work hard to get R’s elected to the Senate and House this year.
Keep Garland of the Supreme Court and get Pelosi airmailed to Italy.
I’m done getting excited about this. As the Trump appointed judge in Florida just proved, NOTHING is going to happen to this piece of shit. If there are indictments and convictions, they will be appealed to HIS Supreme Court, where they will be overturned. Even in Georgia, if Kemp remains Governor and there is a conviction, Kemp will seek praise from Trump supporters and pardon him.
That is AMERICAN JUSTICE in a nutshell. Yes, he’s above the law. Yes, our entire system of government, all three branches, are a joke. And finally, yes, I look forward to its total collapse. We’re a drugged society counting on American myths to justify the inequities we live under … and you know what they say about drug addicts, right? Sometimes you gotta hit bottom before you can start back up.
THEY SHOULD LEAK EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO PUT EGG ON HIS FACE. HE HAS NO SHAME, SO LET IT FLY. You guys can take the shame and turn it into victimhood. 🙂
Hey! Let me out of jail!
I deleted you spam version because somehow you got yourself out of jail.
If the special Master discovers that documents were seized way beyond the warrant I believe the whole issue of prosecuting for anything goes out the window as fruit from a poisonous tree.
“A doctrine that extends the exclusionary rule to make evidence inadmissible in court if it was derived from evidence that was illegally obtained. As the metaphor suggests, if the evidential “tree” is tainted, so is its “fruit.” The doctrine was established in 1920 by the decision in Silverthorne Lumber Co. v.”
But then again, the current effort has less to do with a court case than a smear campaign. If you do not go to court then you can say and accuse of anything can’t you?
The only thing “tainted” about any of this is the FACT there will be NO justice for a guy who led an insurrection, attempted to subvert the constitution and caused great harm to his “law and order” police. The special master can think anything he or she wants regarding the seizure of the documents … they were NOT supposed to be at Bunker Boy’s clubhouse. 🙂
And, I should add, if you DO go to court and are made to look like a fool then your side loses. Certain people, even here, would greet a “not guilty” verdict as “proof” he did something wrong. My Dad used to joke he was never selected for a criminal case (which he did not want to be) by, in the questioning, simply stating, “They wouldn’t be here if they weren’t guilty”. Such a smart guy, the old man.
The government destroyed my old boss forever by a fake prosecution which sent him into bankruptcy and totally destroyed his ability to work again in real estate development since no bank would chance the wrath of the Feds to lend to him. As Regan’s Secretary of Labor, Ray Donovan, said, “Where do I go to get back my reputation” after a bogus prosecution.
Taking a brief pause from my self-exile while I decide where I should get go next to get my political fix following my latest ban for apostasy.
That’s nonsensical.
The search was valid, the seizure was valid. Much as Mr. Trump would like to paint it as some abuse of the legal system, it was a duly executed search warrant signed off by a judge that he, himself, appointed and a director who, again, he, himself, appointed.
If – IF – the ground team acquired materials beyond the scope of the warrant, they’d be returned. That is, of course, the purpose of a filter team and a special master. It’s not like the team on the ground has the time or wherewithal to read every document on site in order to decide whether it’s in-scope (especially when some idiot has mixed his personal correspondence, legal correspondence, and stolen classified materials all together.
It’s like saying “yes, we raided this crack house with a search warrant, found a bunch of crack and mysterious white powder… but some of that white powder turned out to be flour, so the whole search has to be thrown out now since we weren’t authorized to seize any flour.” I mean… on what planet would that make sense?
We shall see. I’ve seen good cases fall apart because the “evidence” was brought into question.
There are reports of at least two protected documents, those not supposed to be collected, reaching investigators. The DOJ/FBI claim that once discovered they returned them to the stash of documents.
This is why I think the Special Master was a good move by the Judge. An independent third party to oversee the sorting and classifications.
The actual taint SK is referring to is more like raiding for XY evidence in the crack house, finding Z and then using Z to prosecute. That is the issue of tainted fruit.
Welcome back. Hope your stay is more enjoyable this time around.
P.S.: Looks like our trip back to your place is off for this year. Hope it works out next year.
There are always lots of “reports.” 98% of them are bullshit. Is this true? Maybe? Who knows? Sure as hell not me. But even if it is, I’m not sure what “returned them to the stash of documents” means or how/why this would impact anything?
I don’t know enough about ‘special masters’ to have an informed opinion of the matter. I know that many on the left are calling this nonsense. I know that the extreme radical liberal Bill Barr is also calling it nonsense. Is it? I have no idea.
Given my druthers, I’d like both sides assign their own “special masters” – and anything they disagree on can be ruled on individually by the judge. That way neither side gets to over/under-include.
Except that that happens all the time.
Many is the drug raid that ends up being a prosecution for weapons possession, etc.
Imagine, if you will, that the FBI agents come to find documents and, in the process, discover a dead body on the floor. Would they have to just step over the body and pretend they didn’t notice it? Would they not be able to prosecute because they weren’t looking for bodies?
I don’t plan to stay long.. just until I find my next harbor.
But, thank you, I hope it’s more enjoyable this time, too. Charlie seems to be doing a decent job holding down the leftist fort..
Don’t waste so much of your time and finger power trying to explain anything to this collection of MAGA-Mites. Maybe the colonel will listen. Maybe. The rest are lockstep INSANE anything that their fearless (5 x draft dodging, never had a fistfight in his life, and wannabe mob boss) leader. I kid, of course. Fire away at their absurd reasoning. Even use anecdotes, real or imagined. That seems to be very popular here. 🙂
“on what planet would that make sense?” Not on Pluto, that’s for sure (where I and my socialist comrades hang) … 🙂
Mathius
One technical question on this matter. You say the search was valid. Yes it was approved by a Judge. But the reason for the search was the failed response to the Subpoena, which was not issued by a Judge.
So what if the Subpoena itself was not valid? Would the search still be considered valid your view? Or maybe the search itself valid but the larger case suspect?
We all know Mr. Trump is prone to serious hyperbole on these matters. But we also know that the DOJ/FBI/CIA/NSA etc. have not been above board when it comes to all matters Trump. So I personally, am not trying to get into the he said/they said weeds on this.
In the end the issues are whether there really is a Crime here or if this is just a pissing match that escalated beyond reason. There is the issue of equal treatment that arises (Clinton, Obama, etc) but that will be litigated in the press forever with no satisfactory resolution.
I won’t pretend to be an expert in the minutae of federal legal procedure. But the (Trump-appointed) judge signed off on the search.
What’s more, they FOUND materials they were looking for. Also, you know, suspiciously empty folders.
So…
It is clear to me that Trump broke the law, then was given ample opportunity to return the materials.
Juror Mathius might be more circumspect, but Citizen Mathius feels no such compunction.
Rather than comply with (repeated) requests, he (as is his tendency) doubled down on some pigheaded, mulish concept of “I can do whatever I want without consequences” and basically forced the FBI’s hand.
Maybe this has “escalated beyond reason,” but that’s almost entirely because Trump refused to accept any out that would have permitted de-escalation. No condition other than “I get my way, f*** you” seems to have been acceptable to him. You can’t issue an open challenge to the feds like that and expect them to just cave and let you keep your stolen classified information.
————
If you or I did that, we’d absolutely go to jail – why does Trump get such absurd special treatment? More to the point, he’s clearly in the wrong here. The FBI might be, too, but Trump definitely is. They found the documents – whether this ultimately turns out to be a legally valid search, whether he ever sees a day in court (he wont) – that’s all beside the point.
It baffles me how anyone could see him as the victim. He does not have clean hands here. He is a criminal.. the only question is whether he gets away with it.
When they found they had seized material that was privileged plus medical records, passports, clothing, etc. why did the FBI not immediately stop and request a special master since Trump’s lawyers had requested that on the day of the raid? Better to be safe and above board than to potentially taint the evidence. I have not heard if any of the documents outside the scope of the warrant have been returned other than the passports. If not why not. The judge stated that the taint team was not isolated and possible passed on information to the investigators.
‘The judge also revealed that the DOJ’s taint or filter teams failed to keep two pieces of protected, privileged documents from reaching frontline investigators. And even after the mistake was discovered, no efforts were made to wall off the evidence, she added.
“Perhaps most concerning, the Filter Review Team’s Report does not indicate that any steps were taken after these instances of exposure to wall off the two tainted members of the Investigation Team,” she wrote. ‘
The argument that they did not have time on the scene to properly document and separate search related documents from other items does not hold water. Thirty agents and 10 hours is a lot of man-hours.
The purpose of the raid appears to more political and an intelligence gathering operation than a archival documents issue. If any of these documents relate to the Russia hoax and other bogus Trump investigations, then it is also a coverup.
They wouldn’t have discovered this until they reviewed it. The team on the ground’s job isn’t to go through the documents and ensure they only take the exact right things. It’s a best-efforts thing. That’s why filter teams exist.
Object, facts not in evidence.
Passports are property of the government, not the individual. They may be seized at any time for any reason.
And, in any event, these were returned to him… so what, exactly, is the issues.?
Again, facts not in evidence, but.. um.. who cares? What POSSIBLE bearing could taking a spare pair of size 48 pants have on whether he committed crimes and/or should be convicted of said crimes?
Even if this happened, it’s just NOT relevant. It’s just a whine Trump uses to drown out the relevant facts.
Because they had a filter team in place for this exact kind of question.
Because, and this may be surprising to some, subjects of investigations don’t get to dictate the terms of their investigations. Just because Trump requests a special unique accommodation does mean that the government needs to bend over for him.
Go back and read the quotes from the judge. Most definitely the facts I stated are in evidence. The article quoted is in my link above.
Don’t see a link from you – perhaps I’m going blind. Could you repost?
Also, even assuming that they did inadvertently seize medical information or clothing, what POSSIBLE relevance can that have with regards to the investigation?
Even if I agree that they shouldn’t have taken his size-XXXL pants, and assuming they returned them… why should we care?
Even assuming they found his medical records, and assuming they don’t disclose them… why should we care?
What POSSIBLE relevance does this have with regards to his guilt or innocence with regards to the theft of classified information and objstuction of justice?
The relevance is to hold them accountable, to make sure they follow the laws that were put in place to protect the rights of Americans. Something they haven’t been doing the last 6 or 7 years.
Hi V!
You may recall that I am fond of saying “two wrongs don’t make a right.”
Even if – IF – the FBI made errors and seized things that they shouldn’t have, that would be a wholly separate matter from the topic of Trump’s (alleged) malfeasance.
It is entirely possible for them to have grabbed things they shouldn’t have (even deliberately) and that Trump is still a criminal. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Focusing on “they took his private property” obfuscates “but they also found and took boxes of classified documents.” The one has no bearing on the other in real terms.
To suggest, as Kent did above, that an improper seizure of unrelated assets renders the whole fruit of the poisonous tree is prima facie absurd. Especially when you consider that many of the documents he claims to have been seized improperly are immaterial/unrelated and were mixed in with the target of the search warrant.
This is all a misdirection, a red herring. The documents were there. Even Trump doesn’t deny this. They were there, and they were seized. The conversation around “but FBI also did [bad thing]” is a valid one, but it’s a distraction. Trump wants you mad at the (alleged) mishandling by the FBI so that you don’t ask the question: why did he have that stuff in the first place and what happened to the contents of the empty classified folders? He wants you mad at the FBI so he can play victim. He wants you mad at the FBI so you distrust the people who accuse him of crimes. He wants you mad at the FBI so any trial (or conviction) is forever tainted with his allegations of bias rather than a referendum on his alleged crime(s).
It is called “working the refs,” and I could list dozens of examples of him doing this. He is always and forever playing the “victim.” If he wins, it’s because he’s pure as the driven snow. If he loses, it’s because of the other side’s malfeasance. The fact that people keep getting suckered in by him is baffling to me.
Even if a COURT would have to throw out the whole matter on a technicality – and I have little hope Trump will ever see the inside of a courtroom – it would still have no bearing on whether he actually did anything wrong. Juror Mathius and Citizen Mathius have different standards.
“why did he have that stuff in the first place and what happened to the contents of the empty classified folders” …. EXACTLY … he did this to himself and he’s GUILTY!
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/judges-order-reveals-fbi-sloppiness-excessive-evidence-collection
I tried linking again but went into a black hole. It is a 9/7 1:56 am.
People questioning the legality of what the DOJ is doing is a good thing. It isn’t just a distraction, because it is important that they only use their powers legally. In my opinion , much more important for the country as a whole, than getting Trump.
V.
I don’t disagree that holding the DOJ accountable and keeping them honest is important. It ABSOLUTELY is.
But using their (real and imagined) foot faults as distractions from Trump’s (alleged) criminality is no way to go. Winging about the DOJ taking his clothes does nothing at all to excuse Trump’s actions. It just distracts.
Trump & Co are using this as a smoke screen. “See?! We’re the victims!! Pay no attention to what they actually found – focus on them taking his medical records that he, for some inexplicable reason, kept in a box with stollen classified data!”
And his supporters are eating it up.
Whatever the DOJ does wrong is on the DOJ. But it doesn’t make Trump innocent.
Whatever Clinton did wrong is on Clinton. But it doesn’t make Trump innocent.
Ah yes… the ol’ Iron Fist of…. small government conservatism.
Ah yes … the old “ultraliberal extremists” … suppressed by the iron fist … the ultraliberals of the Democratic Party (who vote hand & hand with the GOP on war, taxes and profit over people as consistently as if they were Republican Light. 🙂
Well I am not sure how this relates to “small government” but it certainly sounds a bit tyrannical.
I did not see the comment but am guessing this has to do with stuff like teaching sex to K-3rd grade, Critical Race Theory in schools and the such.
Oh, and Mr. Trump’s rhetoric is getting a bit over board in my view. Iron fist? Really?? If he keeps this up he just might cost the R’s control of Congress.
I do wonder if this might actually be his deliberate play with the party-insiders: “either I’m the party, or I sink the party”
No doubt. Trump has always been the child who says “If I can have it, nobody can.” Right now he’s chasing independents with his MAGA candidates from hell … and women are registering to return volley and the Supreme Court. I’m actually enjoying the entire fiasco. Perfect American politics … all things of substance ignored while the spectacle plays itself out.
Boy, if Trump’s pentagon had done this they all would have gone nuts!
https://localtoday.news/fl/jon-stewart-and-the-pentagon-honor-the-ukrainian-nazi-at-disney-world-47057.html
Please place in the, “birds of a feather flock together” file.
JAC, couple of things just disappeared yesterday and just now.
Things already posted? Or things you tried to post?
More anecdotes, no doubt. 🙂
Tried to. mall stuff and a link.
Well I am loading up for a road trip. So ya’ll will be on your own for the most part this next week.
If your comments don’t post, I suggest trying again but give some time between attempts. If I can, I will check in on the Spam from time to time.
Now please lets try to keep it Civil while I am gone. No more personal attacks. It is not necessary and counter productive to making any argument.
For your road trip….
How come no one is commenting on this stuff? A Fake elector allowing a group of cyber-punks access to voting machines in Georgia … caught red handed … another investigation … we’d all be drawn and quartered by now … when do you people give up on the “Hoax” investigations. Looks like Trump et al were not only trying to steal the election outwardly, they were attempting clandestine operations as well … but being the morons they are, they forgot there were cameras … which makes perfect sense since they videotaped themselves beating the shit out of Capitol police. 🙂
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/06/politics/surveillance-video-voting-machine-breach-coffee-county-georgia/index.html
Because it doesn’t fit the narrative, Charlie. You know this.
How are you not getting this by now? The left cheats so much that the Republicans have to cheat. They don’t want to, but we made them do it, you see.
So, really, they’re not cheating, they’re just balancing the scales to counteract our malfeasance. They’re the victims in all this!
🙂 Right. What was I thinking????? I get soft after Hard Knocks cuts are made.
DARVO
DARVO is an acronym for “deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender”. It refers to a reaction that alleged perpetrators of wrongdoing may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior.[1] Some researchers and advocates have indicated that it can be a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.[2][3][4]
Mathius, I remember you defending Hillary during the email matter. She violated FOIA laws, had an open server that was hacked by one or more foreign entities, had classified documents, turned them over to lawyers w/o security clearances, deleted and smashed devices that were under Congressional subpoena thus obstructing justice, sold access to her office and quite possibly more.
With Trump we have had one provably bogus investigation after another with constant leaks to the press. They entrapped his subordinates and spied on them, ran a years long investigation into what was a political dirty trick that was a BIG lie, impeached him twice, the first over something that Biden by self-admission is in fact guilty of. They suppressed Hunter’s laptop story prior to the election, have not properly investigated it, raided Project Veritas over Ashley’s diary and leaked their ill gotten findings.
How much more evidence do you need to finally conclude that the FBI is corrupt? Everything they do at this point should be suspect.
Feel free to dig up any such defense. Present me with the evidence of my hypocrisy that I may eat crow.
Hillary is – and was – a piece of shit who played fast and loose with the rules. She was investigated ad nauseam, cooperated with investigators, testified under oath, and had her nomination torpedoed by a well-timed announcement by the FBI.
Even if she did do the things Trump is accused of, (1) and I don’t know why I need to keep saying this, TWO WRONGS DON’T MAKE A RIGHT! and (2) It’s worth noting that Trump has spent ~6 years screaming to the rafters about the her criminal mishandling of classified data and went and did something similar – you get how that’s bad, right?
———-
Honestly, if the bet defense you can mount of the guy is “but her emails!!!1!,” then that’s not really a defense at all.
You can’t lock me up for murder because that other guy committed murder and got away with it, so that means you have to let me get away with it, too!
Previously, on SUFA
Or…
Or…
Or…
Or…
Re-reading my comments, I think I was pretty clear that she is/was a piece of shit and (probable) criminal and that I’d be happy to see her in jail (though this is not something I thought would ever happen). I was clear – all along – that the only reason she got my vote was that Trump was abhorrent.. At no point did I see myself “defending” her use of email servers – though I never saw it as as big of a deal as the rest of you seemed to have. Rather, I saw it as improper.
The differences between Clinton and Trump, as I see it, with regards to their handling of classified data is:
1. Clinton was doing something more-or-less in-line with the common practices of the time.
2. Clinton complied with investigations, testified under oath, and roto-scoped.
3. Clinton was ultimately the FBI determined not to press charges – though not before torpedoing her chances at winning the election.
4. Clinton was not doing something that she had spent the last several years screaming about. You don’t get to play victim when you are caught doing something you’ve spent years chanting “lock her up” about.
https://nationalfile.com/jackson-water-shakedown-water-pressure-restored-immediately-after-army-corps-arrives/
T Ray,
Setting aside the, er… ‘questionable’.. bias of the site you linked, and taking things at face value, my question remains: so what?
The linked order says that the clothes and other readily identified personal property was identified and returned (this, presumably, includes his passport which he has indicated was returned).
Doing some digging, we find that this was Item #10 – Box/Container from Storage Room which contained 11 “US Government Documents with CONFIDENTIAL Classification Markings,” 21 “US Government Documents with SECRET Classification Markings,” 3 Articles of Clothing/Gift Items, 1 book, and 255 “US Government Documents/Photographs without Classification Markings.”
Sooooooooooooo….. it looks like the FBI found a box with a bunch of classified / secret stuff and just took the box and then returned the stuff that wasn’t relevant. Hmmm…. ok.. well, let’s check the warrant.. that was disclosed, right..?
Ah… here we go… Attachment B of the search warrant: P4., Para A: “Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes Including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes.
Looks to me like things were working as they should be… the FBI grabbed what they were allowed to grab and returned things they didn’t need.
———–
BUT, I hear you saying… BUT the filter team missed (at least) two items and let the investigators have them. Perhaps. Certainly, Team Trump claims this. And, certainly, the judge entertains the claim (without necessarily agreeing, however).
And that’s a good question.. one I don’t have any answers to since I lack the necessary information to have an informed opinion. And we can certainly question whether this could impact his ability to have a fair trial. That is a very valid question!
But, seeing as he’ll never set foot in court, I find this question moot. JUROR Mathius will never have to weigh in on his guilt or innocence. CITIZEN Mathius, however, is bound by no such niceties.
Did Trump have classified, secret, top secret government documents at Mar A Lago? Yes. That’s a crime. You can point at the FBI and whine about them (and I will whine right alongside you!), but it has ZERO bearing on whether Trump committed the crime(s) in question.
I will disagree with you on the validity of the source. John Solomon was one of the few reporters who got the Russia hoax correct from the beginning unlike the NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, …..
Be that as it may, I linked to the warrant and the seizure-manifest. It is crystal clear that they were authorized to seize whole boxes and that the offending items were contained within those boxes.
Maybe, if Trump doesn’t want people to take his stuff, he shouldn’t store it in the same boxes with his stolen classified documents?
As for any failures by the FBI future teams, well, I await evidence that’s better than “sources say” and “Trump claims.” If it happened (and I suspect it actually did), for it to matter one iota, I’d have to know what, exactly, slipped through the filter.
If they got his medial records, for example.. so what? Yes, they shouldn’t have that, but it has no impact. Does this make sense? So I simply lack the data to offer an informed opinion.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is called 𝓟𝓡𝓔𝓒𝓔𝓓𝓔𝓝𝓣:
This 3 to 4 hour event is worse than anything that has happened since 1869. Sure it is. One really should stop and ask themselves what this ruling really proves.
What it proves is nothing.
Red Team is going to appeal it to a conservative court (up to and including SCOTUS), win, and then claim to be the victim of the mean, nasty radical leftist Democrat Party.
—-
As for the 3-4 hour event, as you put it, duration is not the defining factor for severity. A murder can happen in a split-second, but is obviously much worse than jaywalking, which takes 30 seconds.
That 3-4 hour event was an attempted overthrow of the United States government. That it failed, that it was inept, poorly planned or spontaneous, and poor executed.. all moot. Those people were trying to instill the President they wanted rather than the one who won. That’s an insurection / attempted coup. And that’s a big friggin’ deal.
If you doubt it, ask yourself this: if those folks had caught congress still in their seats, what would have happened? You think they brought zip ties for fun?
Just one video from me … today. Has to do with a conservative Republican calling out his party … and The Donald.
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LykLRBQQjoQ
Hey, Plutonian…
What do you think would have happened if the maga “tourists” had managed to catch the Congress-critters still in their seats?
I was rooting for them to do so. 🙂 I think some of them would’ve gone crazy and hurt a few, but most were probably full of shit. On the other hand, no matter what they did, these guys would still defend “their right to protest” and “beat the shit out of the police” (never mind pols with D’s on the lapels). Yeah, those wild and crazy tourists … one might think after all that has happened, they’d stray from attacking an FBI field office in Cincinnati. 🙂 I think they’re now called the “gravy seals”?
I forgot about those zip ties. Thanks for reminding me. I amend my prior comment. 🙂 Those poor victims arrested for touring the capitol. Good thing Herr Trump claims he’ll pardon them too! 🙂
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/09/january_6_was_not_a_real_insurrection_take_it_from_someone_who_lived_through_one_.html
Hi, Sir Mathius…hope you and yours are doing well.
Doing fine. Same to you and yours.
Don’t get too used to my presence.. I’m just stoppin’ in for a bit. I’ll be moseying along again soon enough.
(though I can be enticed to stick around longer in exchange for a really nice steak and/or whiskey…)
And, of course, a nice plate of hot churros for later.
Colonel, what the hell are churros? Anything like lasagna?
Little green grasshoppers you dip live in warm chocolate and eat. It’s Texas delicacy.
Hahaha! Cmon on now TRay, You know damn well a down to earth Texan eats beef not bugs. It’s definitely a coastal thing.
I hear Rocky Mountain Oysters are good this time of year.
Think of an elongated donut dipped in cinnamon, head to toe….
Col. you are spoiling all the fun. I was going to suggest a snipe hunt nest.
Oops, my bad.
“A churro is a type of fried dough from Spanish and Portuguese cuisine. They are also found in Latin American cuisine and the cuisine of the Philippines and in other areas that have received immigration from Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries, especially in the Southwestern United States and France.” In Gods country (NY/NJ) we call them crullers.
Like hell we do!
Pistols at dawn, sir!
Without the gauntlet….
The “official” bio of John Fetterman, The tattooed, shaved head, hoodie wearing “blue collar” hero never worked a goddam job in his life. Unofficially he is the equivalent of a “trust” baby having been carried by Dad financially. Oh and Braddock PA is still a dump but a great stepping stone into politics just like AOC’s district.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/senate/senate_nonMbr.cfm?officer=18&office=President
Red Team should have run someone other than Oz, then.
Say what you will about Fetterman – I have no horse in the race – but he’s running one heck of a campaign.
Unofficially he is the equivalent of a “trust” baby having been carried by Dad financially.
That may be true – I have no idea – but I do know that Oz made his fortune by selling snake oil “miracle cures” to gullible and desperate people.
OZ, a self made man. Fetterman a trust baby! Pick your poison.
Oz is a friggin snake oil salesman. He’s been bagged on this 1,000 x’s … or are you no longer the party of law and order and full in on con man? 🙂
Dr. Oz shouldn’t be a Senator — or a doctor. 🙂
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dr-oz-shouldnt-be-a-senator-or-a-doctor/
“Unofficially he is the equivalent of a “trust” baby having been carried by Dad financially.”
As opposed to Trump. 🙂 Fetterman in a coma is better than Ozzie-boy … Oz lives in NJ and has the integrity of a rattlesnake salesman (“miracle cures”) … the PERFECT Trump candidate. 🙂
Actually, it gets better. Looks as though Fetterman has a heart and believes in helping those less privileged. THE FACTS SK (try and stick to them) (from Wiki). “Beginning his professional career in the insurance industry, Fetterman studied finance at Albright College and earned an MBA from the University of Connecticut. Following the death of a close friend, he joined AmeriCorps and earned an MPP from Harvard. Fetterman’s service with AmeriCorps led him to Braddock, where he moved in 2004 and was elected mayor the following year. As mayor of Braddock, Fetterman worked to revitalize the former steel town by investing in art and youth programs.”
Early life: “Fetterman has described his upbringing as “privileged”, saying he “sleepwalked” through his young adulthood, playing four years of football in college and intending to eventually take over as owner of his father’s business. In 1991, Fetterman graduated from Albright College, also his father’s alma mater, with a bachelor’s degree in finance, after which he received a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from the University of Connecticut in 1993.
While Fetterman was studying at UConn, his best friend died in a car accident, which had a formative effect on Fetterman’s life and career path. Following his friend’s death, Fetterman joined Big Brothers Big Sisters of America, pairing with an eight-year-old boy in New Haven, Connecticut, whose father had died from AIDS and whose mother was slowly dying from the disease. During his time as a Big Brother, Fetterman says he became “preoccupied with the concept of the random lottery of birth”, and promised the boy’s mother he would continue to look out for her son after she was gone. In 1995, Fetterman joined the recently founded AmeriCorps, and was sent to teach Pittsburgh students pursuing their GEDs. For two years, Fetterman worked in Pittsburgh as a risk-management underwriter for Chubb. He later attended Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, from which he graduated in 1999 with a Master of Public Policy degree.
This is GREAT. 🙂
Who do you think he is talking about?
“The persona he presented to the external world was quite different from what lay behind the bombast. In private, when not acting, he was a thoughtful, intelligent professional”.
-James Lacey
Am I disqualified from answering this question if I happen to have a copy of Gods of War by James Lacey sitting on my nightstand waiting for me to Shogun?
Yes!
Are you attempting to depict Trump as Patton? Tell me you’re not doing that.
Then again, Trump did say he knows more than his generals and that his military academy (where his grades remain hidden from fear of lawsuits), the little genius thought it was tougher than what solider go through (something like that). General Trump to the rescue! If that guy ever had a fight in his life, you can mortgage the house and bet that it was with someone in a wheelchair.
Believe him. He knows more than the Generals …
In honor of SKT’s trivia question…
Tell me you guys didn’t pony up coin for his scams. 🙂
The Lincoln Project? Bill Kristol and George Conway’s gang of losers? Bigger bunch of losers than all the RINOs in Congress. Rove is probably right with them, meaning all the Bushes too. They’re so yesterday.
I’ve never donated to a campaign but if I ever felt like donating, it would be to Trump and Trump only. These rallies, where his endorsement record is somewhere around 160- 0 ( yeah that’s a burn), aren’t cheap.
Why is that narrator so salty?
Careful about donating to Trump … he kind of steals the coin. 🙂
And how ’bout those Buffalo Bills!
Anita, my love … pay attention.
I mean, he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and I’d still support him, so this is small potatoes.
We support him over that election because we also believe it was rigged and stolen. Just because YOU don’t believe that, (with evidence from all over the country, and people being charged, and election laws being rewritten over all of it). These guys have nothing more pressing to do than worry about his every move. It rings of jealousy and the mean girls club. YAWN
ugh! Didn’t even finish my sentence after the (). Oh well, I probably sent your blood pressure up enough. 😉
“with evidence from all over the country, and people being charged, and election laws being rewritten over all of it” … where’s the evidence? Even Nosferatu (Rudy) stated: “We have lots of theories and no evidence.” There’s none. Zilch. Even when they’re own MAGA people recounted in Arizona (totally unoficial), Biden won. No blood pressure problems here, Anita, my love. All I can do is smile at the continued con … whatever you do, don’t send money. The thief doesn’t need any. 🙂
Setting aside the 60-something cases he lost, perhaps you could point me at cases of people being charged?
Because I have seen a few cases of minor voter fraud like this:
Prosecutors: Clark County man touted in Republican election fraud allegations voted his dead wife’s ballot – which turns out to be both a Republican who voted his own dead wife’s ballot, claimed that the Democrats had fraudulently voted it, and the story got heavily touted on the right while the eventual truth (and his conviction) were largely ignored.
But despite this, that’s one guy (and his dead wife) – hardly enough to make any difference. So where’s the evidence that this is actually happening – and that it’s happening in favor of the Democrats?
————-
There was Arizona’s highly touted partisan effort to find voter fraud, including hiring “cyber ninjas” and looking for bamboo fragments. Yea… this one.
And there’s the massive lawsuit by Dominion against Fox for their overt lies during the election where it just came to light that Fox was aware that some of their reporters were spouting baseless claims (read: lies).
————-
By the way:
There are an awful lot of laws being written. But to use that as evidence that Democrats stole the election is…. a LOGICAL FALLACY!
Republicans love to imagine a crisis and then legislate on it. They do this all the time (see also: bathroom bills). More to the point, their base believes there’s a crisis, so the politicians have to be seen addressing it. That doesn’t prove the crisis actually exists.
More to the point, one wonders whether these actually address the issues of said “fraud” or whether they help address the issue of “stopping Democrats from voting.”
God save the Queen! King Charles III will never fill those big shoes.
No kings, no queens … enough with that horseshit already.
But without any official royalty, we’d have to admit that the billionaire-class are the new aristocracy. And we can’t have that, now can we?
(please ignore the guillotine that I’ve been lovingly restoring in my garage)
Ahh advocating “the Terror” I see. Be careful, you know what happened to Danton and Robespierre!
Robespierre is fine… but, if I must, I prefer to go out in the manner of Thomas De Mahy, marquis de Favras, whose final words upon reading his death sentence before his own beheading were: “I see that you have made three spelling mistakes.”
“Hang Mike Pence!” … if he doesn’t testify. 🙂
Anita… I got sent to purgatory… trying again down here….
Setting aside the 60-something cases he lost, perhaps you could point me at cases of people being charged?
Because I have seen a few cases of minor voter fraud like this:
Prosecutors: Clark County man touted in Republican election fraud allegations voted his dead wife’s ballot – which turns out to be both a Republican who voted his own dead wife’s ballot, claimed that the Democrats had fraudulently voted it, and the story got heavily touted on the right while the eventual truth (and his conviction) were largely ignored.
But despite this, that’s one guy (and his dead wife) – hardly enough to make any difference. So where’s the evidence that this is actually happening – and that it’s happening in favor of the Democrats?
Anita….. part 2/3
There was Arizona’s highly touted partisan effort to find voter fraud, including hiring “cyber ninjas” and looking for bamboo fragments. Yea, this one.
And there’s the massive lawsuit by Dominion against Fox for their overt lies during the election where it just came to light that Fox was aware that some of their reporters were spouting baseless claims (read: lies).
————
By the way:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb1N7MLagAAYlzO.jpg
Anita…. part 3/3
There are an awful lot of laws being written. But to use that as evidence that Democrats stole the election is…. a LOGICAL FALLACY!
Republicans love to imagine a crisis and then legislate on it. They do this all the time (see also: bathroom bills). More to the point, their base believes there’s a crisis, so the politicians have to be seen addressing it. That doesn’t prove the crisis actually exists.
More to the point, one wonders whether these actually address the issues of said “fraud” or whether they help address the issue of “too many Democrats are voting and having their votes count.”
I could spend the day gathering up articles and clips of things I have read and seen over the last two years to show why I believe there was fraud, and the whole day would be wasted because !) we’ve been through this how many times already? and 2) just as you see no fraud, I see so much fraud that we’ll never see eye to eye on it …ever. Waaaay back from the forest there has been things like
Ballots separated from envelopes so no signature matches could ever happen now.
Ballots being accepted up to ? weeks after election day
Keeping poll watchers away from vote counting – physically in the building or covering windows with cardboard from outside the building.
Video evidence of ballot harvestors stuffing drop off boxes
Video evidence of coincidental increase/decrease in vote tallies …meaning Trump goes down (say) 100 exactly when Biden goes up 100.
The Arizona effort is still ongoing. 2000 mules spells out more.
Detroit couldn’t even certify
The voting dead, the dimentia patient’s votes, the clean as a whistle ballots that have never been through the wringer,…IT ALL ADDS UP
I seriously have no more time before work to spend on this, But YOU Mathius are the one who says where there is smoke there is fire. All these things occurred in swing states. All of them in blue areas.
But what do you care? Sept 3rd of this year has passed so they can destroy all the evidence they want now. Trump left office on his last day, when you predicted he’d be led off in cuffs. Doesn’t mean all this stuff never happened. But I’ll always believe it was a set up. 81 million, huh? More votes than Obama? yeah, more votes maybe. But valid votes? A big hell no from me. And so be it if you believe it was fair.
He’ll be baaaack………..
Off to work
I think talking about fraud with you is a lost cause – I agree we’ll never see eye to eye. So…. moving on…
No, I don’t say this.
I say, where there’s smoke, it’s worth LOOKING to see if there’s fire.
I don’t think I ever made this prediction, unless in jest.
Consequences are not for the wealthy and powerful, only us plebs.
Trump will never get put in handcuffs – not even if he shoots someone on 5th avenue.
I care very much.
I would rather lose honestly – even if that meant that Trump won – than win dishonestly. I feel I have always been clear about this.
Well, to be fair, like a half dozen of those were votes FOR Biden. The rest were votes AGAINST Trump.
Trump’s 74m was also more than Obama… yet you don’t seem to discount that..?
Helllll no.
Have a great day!
Why, oh why, didn’t the Republicans get destroyed in the house on election day 2020? Could it be those elections were fair and ONLY the Presidential was rigged. Are the democrats that shifty (schiff, schiff)? Corporations won in November. Mattius is correct about votes against Trump and for Biden (I think there were only 24 or so). I, a socialist, voted for Biden to get rid of Trump. I won’t do it again, but the bottom line is while the never ending spectacle continues around Bunker Boy and his minions, corporate America rules the roost. Whatever you do, Anita, my love … DO NOT GIVE THAT THIEF A DIME. He’ll only pocket it and call you names behind your back that sound like SUCKER. By the way, did you watch the game last night? Bills 31, Ramettes 10. And now I hear Dark Brandon is setting off all the snowflakes in the GOP. What’s up with that?
You could have just stopped there.
We have a fire raging about 8-10 mile north of us so if I disappear for a while it is because we had to bug out. It is not likely it will get this far south as most of these fires run to the NE. That said, we have started packing suitcases with meds, and other necessities.
Stay safe.
Check back, when you can, and let us know you’re all safe. My prayers are with you.
Indict….charge….convict…..nothing more, nothing less.
Who are we indicting this time?
Donny? You’re more likely to see a herd of wooly mammoths wandering through your back 40 than to ever see that orange blow-hard in handcuffs.
Like I told Charlie….if he is guilty, indict him, charge him, convict him, put him away……….anything short of that, according to law, is innocence…..according to law. Which is why I stay away from all the arguments…..innocent until proven guilty in a court of law….and not by court of public opinion or court of news media……especially by the court of some one who says churros are crullers……CRULLERS, for crying out loud. Maybe he should have to kiss the gunners daughter (paging the Pirate).
If he is indicted and convicted, I’ll return it to you to see if you accept the conviction, Colonel. I know others here can’t. But churros wish they were Crullers. 🙂
Lol….my friend. I think you know where I will stand.
I always assumed they’d never really indict Herr Trump, but I’m starting to think there’s no way for them to avoid it. Yet another investigation into the conman from Queens yesterday. I also assumed it was all meant to derail his 2024 aspirations, but whether they stop him from that legally or not, he’s now so toxic he’s given the dead in the water/useless Democrats a BIG SHOT in the arm. First, by his Supreme Court appointments. The once very pro-abortion Trump found Jaysus and appointed lunatics who overturned Roe (the Dems thank them very much) … and with his constant spewing nonsense and now Qanon theories, he’s become too toxic for independents (at least enough so he never wins again). Imagine 2024 when he losses? And can you imagine the commercials of him saying he’ll “pardon” the Knucklehead Revolutionaries? 🙂
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/09/enough_already_release_the_j6_political_prisoners.html
You should read this and then listen to the Prager interview of one of the defendants. The guy is guilty of trying to protect an elderly woman from a viscous beating by a cop. Now if the woman was black you would call in BLM and riot over this. The lady died as a result of the beating, but I am sure you would say she got her just desserts.
Here’s an anecdote for you, Tman. I was once arrested for an assault, but I had people who backed my alibi. I had to spend the night in lockup. The case was dismissed because the “victim” refused to show up in court. I pled not guilty and would’ve lied through my teeth about that alibi if I had to go to court in trial. Sometimes you gotta look behind what a defendant is saying. 🙂
We shall see in the mid terms…
That appears to be one long anecdote. Is there ANY proof to it or do we take the word as gospel? Serious question. Is there any proof of any of what that article said (minus all the Soviet invective nonsense)?
“Apparently, you can mess with Texas.” – Alabama
Yep……but they beat us with a back up quarterback……one missed tackle was the difference but…..we lost. They did know, however, they were in a game.
The stars at night
Arebig and bright
[clap clap clap clap]
Deep in the heart of ‘Bama!
Damn Dog…
However, even a damn dog knows that a “bama” team, rated as NUMBAH 1 in the nation, with a Heisman quarterback and a 20 point favorite against an un-ranked team with a back up quarterback……….barely skates by in the last 10 seconds and wins by 1 point…..who does it speak well of? (Yes, I ended that statement with a proposition).
I suspect that Texas earned some respect points and Bama lost respect points….BUT that does not change the outcome….bottom line.,,,Bama won. End of sentence.
Rep. Vicente Gonzalez, D-Texas, who’s running for re-election to Congress in the midterm elections, claimed during an event attended by House Intelligence Committee chairman Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., that a June special election in Texas was stolen by Rep. Mayra Flores, R-Texas, and her supporters.
Awwwwwwww
Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the “truth”. I’m sure Putin did it!
This one is gonna hurt, SK … 🙂
Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/
The GOP still leads 3-1 in fugazi fraud claims. 🙂
Parroting Trump, GOP primary losers cast doubt on elections
https://apnews.com/article/republican-primary-losers-claim-fraud-parroting-trump-7730988a009dfa0873e8133e19232562
Just depends on whose ox is being gored…..nothing more. Claims of stolen elections have been around since Caesar…….Gore and Trump were the loudest in this era…so far. Just hurt feelings and egoistic charade…..
Sent from my iPad
>
The others that lost their races on the border did not cry…..but what do you expect with Schiff on your side.
Sent from my iPad
>
Would you not agree that since Trump’s BIG LIE, the tendency to claim fraud has stepped up? Or does he get a pass on that one too? 🙂
Actually, he gets a pass on that one. Fraudulent claims of stolen elections….well, I answered that already…..
Oy vey … advice from a city boy: “Don’t contribute any coin to his LIE.” 🙂
Texan back to you……never….to anyone.
Hey Colonel, you forget that Schiff, with his own beady little eyes saw ABSOLUTEPROOF of Russian collusion which obviously included information on secret Russian attempts to elect their own allegedly Hispanic (probably Cuban moles) candidates in Texas.
No systemic racism here … right. Sure.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/10/us/black-pastor-arrest-watering-flowers-federal-lawsuit-reaj/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1RjlHCF0PDx4vt50uiK0L2jQcU2CKXHxonJBk6CYdM5VJeZ2sVPxOezy0
Read your CNN article…….i have a couple of questions…..(1) the neighbor who called the police to begin with……..White, Black. Hispanic? This article seems to have left that out. (2) It seems this whole thing could have been avoided if the man simply went and got his ID. Apparently he lived close by but he refused. Could this be considered escalation?
Is it racism if someone refuses to Identify himself by being on someone else’s property? Should the police simply believe him? Could he have been casing the joint?
Too much speculation and an attempt at easy money….perhaps…..but, I would like to follow this…..
The other thing I find very confusing…….according to this article, “Jennings’ attorneys said Saturday that based on their interpretation of Alabama law, Jennings had permission to be on private property and therefore was not required to identify himself to the officers.” Interesting….so a neighbor, who did not recognize a so called pastor, saw a suspicious person watering flowers outside of a home and, according to law, all you have to do is say, I was invited and that is that? Wow…..
So, in conclusion, the police were called by a neighbor (probably black..I say this because CNN would have made a BIGGER STINK if the neighbor was white..you and I both know this)….who thought it suspicious. ( Reasonable?)
I am not going to research the law that I find suspicious….but this man’s attorney says that their interpretation of the law is that on private private property, there is no requirement to identify to officers…but if that is the law, which I doubt, BUT if that is the law, then the arresting officers should have known the law.
If the arresting officers had been black, I would bet your first born that upon asking for ID, the pastor would have complied.
No, sir…..not a very good example of systemic racism……not in my book.
===============
Then I tried to put my self in that position of the neighbor that called the police…..and that would be unfair because if I saw that on my neighbors property, I would not call the police. I would confront it….especially if I knew my neighbor was out of town. Failure to identify himself or show proof that he was, indeed, there with permission, I would immediately contact my neighbor, and after taking a picture of the person with my cell phone, call the police if my neighbor did not respond….But this is Texas and I know all of my neighbors and we tell each other every time we go out of town and we also let each other know if workmen are going to be around to avoid things like this…..but I guess I have to suspect that neighborhoods in Alabama do not do this….a shame.
But the point you are trying to make is a black man being arrested by white cops. That is the only point you are trying to make…..that is also sad.
Answer in Purgatory
Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez is asking anyone with information to reach out to his office after two men allegedly attempting to break into a home Friday night were shot and killed by a teenager with a shotgun.
Upon arrival, deputies located two men unresponsive from apparent gunshot wounds on the lawn to the side of the home.
Both men were pronounced dead at that location by EMS personnel.
===================
Vigilante justice is what it is going to take….
As Texas sends thousands of migrants to sanctuary cities, liberal mayors scramble to respond……………
But…but….but…..these are sanctuary cities………more on the way, get ready.
Big cities will always be happy to help the helpless Texans … shame they can’t handle their own shit. 🙂
Yeah, pretty tough to handle 7-10k per day.
Here I thought it was per minute. Piece of cake.
Suffice it to say that ANYTHING I see in the Washington Post or The New York Times is suspect to say the least, even the weather!
Their “reportage” on the Collusion story puts them up there with the absolute worst yellow journalism of Hearst or Pulitzer. Remember them?
“Spanish Sink US Battleship With Infernal Device”.
I assume some of those 30,000+ lies were repeats of prior lies, but it’s still pretty impressive. Just think, every time he said he “won, bigly (or was it big time”), he lied. Every time he said he started a $1 million loan from his father, which he paid back is 2x’s however many times he said it. He started with 400+ million and he’s never paid back a loan in his life (talk about welfare cheats). Now he’s facing new charges for all the coin he hustled out of his moronic supporters for scamming them … again. It’s almost like Trump University x 1,000 … 🙂
How many of those so called lies turned out to be the truth?
2 … maybe. Russiagate and he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and his morons would still vote for him. 🙂
30,000/4/365 = 20.5/d which includes the days on the golf course.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cristiano-ronaldo-hangs-with-dr-jordan-peterson/
Try again
Not that long to read. A miraculous conversion. Praise be the Lord!
https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/opening-boxes-from-2019?utm_source=substack
Even skimming it’s LONG anecdote. 🙂 Glad she’s in the woods …
Wow, a pleasure to read! Someone having their eyes opened to what’s really important. Seems like it usually takes pain, for all of us, when we learn this lesson.
Yes indeed. Dies this mean there is hope?
Bada-boom, bada-bing … one of my guys agrees with some of yous …
https://instapundit.com/541888/#respond
This is disturbing!
Uh-oh Spaghetti O’s …
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/09/a-new-way-of-life-the-marxist-post-capitalist-green-manifesto-captivating-japan?fbclid=IwAR3Gb-9NEl-Eh4u9htDV9Lycaq56EZcv3NiAU2jaeAxVmHQKsCflB_fr5ks
Now the enquiring mind would like to know, just for the hell of it, if the 27,345 time she has said this, the 84,000 time Joe has said it and the 245,000 times the Press secretary said this constitute only one lie.
https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kevin-tober/2022/09/11/chuck-todd-shocked-harris-claim-border-secure?fbclid=IwAR1TqTGgfM2eSQnUgiT1UzJFkWyt89uUpPpvz7jhiFhhachg1byZHcN248w
LIES. Count them as many times as you like. You’re the one trying to justify one pathological liar over another. Both parties suck. Both are useless. Both lie endlessly … somehow, however, one gets morons to contribute to his scam over and over again.
Where’s the FOR SALE sign … because that’s EXACTLY what this is about. My man is hawking those babies for all he can get. 🙂
What’s he got to hide? 🙂
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/12/politics/trump-filing/index.html
With Trump, it’s less about “what he has to hide” than “how much can he drag the process out.”
His play here is twofold: (1) draw the process out to wear down the DOJ and get them to either capitulate or give him a sweetheart deal and (2) to muddy the waters enough that, even if he loses, he can play victim and whine about unfairness.
But now he’s facing a justice department with an unlimited budget and zero interest in caving. The only clock he can run out here is his own death due to diabetes and mini strokes.
So all he’s doing is throwing feces at the wall, trying to run out the clock and paint himself as a martyr.
Notwithstanding the above, I think we all know that Trump is never going to actually face any real consequences. Oh, his lieutenants might go to jail, maybe he gets some fines, and so forth. But we’re never going to get to see him in handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit that matches his fake tan.
If the Democrats could do that ONE THING (put him in an actual prison with an actual jump suit to match his fake tan) before Trump or myself dies, I’d vote for them in the next 2 elections. 🙂
I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news Charlie, but, you see, they won’t hold him accountable because the Democratic Party is a bunch of feckless pieces of shit who continue to get to exist exclusively by being the less-bad option when compared to the toxic waste dump that is the GOP. They are too afraid of the “center” and of the far right (who would probably have another “peaceful” coup attempt) to actually do their jobs.
No, the Democrats are useless, and your only hope lies with the DOJ. Trump has effectively issued an open challenge to the authority of the DOJ in his defiance of their “requests,” so it’s just possible they’ll play hardball. A small ray of hope.
Still, Trump has the resources to run out the clock for years and, if his supporters keep sending him funds to “save America,” even longer than that. Being a morbidly obese 76 year old who exists on a diet of fast food and diet coke and whose only “exercise” is cheating at golf.. I don’t think we have the time get him before he kicks the bucket on his own account.
Even then, even if he ever did see a courtroom, he’d be able to run it out for years stunts like this special master nonsense. And then there are the biased judges he appointed and random stooges snuck into the jury pool (the kind that wouldn’t convict him for shooting someone in Times Square). And appealing it all the way up to SCOTUS which has shown zero restraint with regard to its biases. Any part of which could dismiss the case and he’d be free and clear.
I suppose we might hope he takes the coward’s way out if he senses the walls closing. But his base would cry foul and venerate him as a martyr, so I’m not sure that’s any better.
No, Charlie.. there is no justice to be had in this world for the likes of Trump.
“I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news Charlie, but, you see, they won’t hold him accountable because the Democratic Party is a bunch of feckless pieces of shit who continue to get to exist exclusively by being the less-bad option when compared to the toxic waste dump that is the GOP.”
M-man, you missed my prior rants … we lost … we ALL lost … we’re a neoliberal corporate oligarchy and that’s been too established for too long for anything to change. So, while I agree with Mr. Hedges on about 90% of what he claims, his 1-10% solution is comical (civil disobedience) … I’d only “hope” the Donald could face justice knowing it won’t or can’t happen, but it’s the ONLY hope I have left. I invested $50.00 in AOC, $25 to Tlaib and $25 to Omar several years ago (more than a grand to Sanders in 2016/$50 in 2020) … and now feel ALMOST as foolish (although I should feel AS foolish) as Trump contributors (to his wall, his defense fund, etc.) … my bad and never again. But if they could pull it off and convict the POS, I’d commit to 2 elections (knowing full well it means nothing), but I’d write in a democratic name on the mail ballot (because I LOVE mail voting). 🙂
there is no justice to be had in this world for the likes of Trump. This precedent was set long before you got out of diapers.
When you’re right, you’re right, Colonel.
Europe is in trouble
Posted on September 8, 2022
Indeed, it is.
I don’t understand how people can think that it’s smart to reduce your own energy supply in order to become dependent on the supply of others. How on earth would that even help the environment, if the environment is your concern? It seems nonsensical on the face of it, and yet politicians propose it and people vote for it. Is it an “extraordinary popular delusion” in order to virtue-signal?
And if you want to use alternate sources of energy that are greener, good luck. I might even say “more power to you” (pun intended). But you’d better be able to deliver, or you’re setting yourselves up for disaster.
Not to mention, of course, the sheer stupidity and folly of becoming dependent on a hostile foreign power for energy. Madness.
Of course, if you posit that the leaders of the Western world have as a goal to destroy the Western world, then all is explained. It’s the old “fools versus knaves” question. I happen to think that stupidity is a goodly part of it, with a generous heaping of “knave” thrown in as well.
In the piece by William Jacobson that I linked in the first sentence of this post, Professor Jacobson quotes this very alarming Twitter thread by Finnish economist and professor Tuomas Malinen:
I am telling you people that the situation in #Europe is much worse than many understand. We are essentially on the brink of another banking crisis, a collapse of our industrial base and households, and thus on the brink of the collapse of our economies. Short thread. 1/4
We are also totally at the mercy of the authorities, and we have very little knowledge what they have planned. Will they be able to stop the onset of the banking crisis, yet again? I don’t know, but I am doubtful. 2/
In any case the speed of deterioration is massive now, and it’s only a matter of time, when markets catch up.
Certain politicians in this country seem to want us to follow suit, and are doing their best to make it happen.
https://www.thenewneo.com
[dons tweed jacket]
I won’t agree with all of that…. particularly the anti-green takeaways. But I do agree that letting yourselves become dependent on a hostile country for your energy supply is beyond moronic.
More to the point, I agree that Europe is in a baaad (that’s three a’s) situation and it is, I agree, far worse than people realize. None of the metrics make any kind of conventional sense. And, unlike the US, they don’t have magic printing presses.
I would say the whole thing is going to burst, except that I’ve been saying that for years only for them to somehow muddle through.
Still, Mathius has long-dated Euro Stoxx 50 puts.(ticker: FEZ). It’s probably a bit late to get into the game, but I think things are picking up steam. The collapse may not be imminent, but the market noticing the state of the EU probably is imminent.
If options aren’t your game, you can always fall back on other defensive plays: gold (which has been creeping up) and BitCoin (which is still a bit high for my taste). But.. eh… you’re a bit late…
Barring that, you could just invest in ammo and brace for the end of the world.
The 1989-90 Housing bubble collapse was semi-catastrophic. Within five years they started pulling the SOS all over again. i predicted a collapse by ’99 or ’00 (which should have happened except a whole lot of sleight of hand moves) It was put off for seven years. This sucker will be a doozy! Energy shortages will just make it all the more interesting.
So how are you playing this one?
For me, it’s loading up on cheap debt at fixed rates to be paid back with cheaper dollars post-inflation, some long-dated puts (including deep out of the money), and a pile of gold buried in a mayonnaise jar in [redacted].
————-
I’m getting a solar system installed in a few weeks that’s going to reduce my electricity bill to zero… fifty-fucking-thousand dollars… not a penny out of pocket, the whole thing financed at, I shit you not, 0.99% fixed for 20 years, and the federal + state rebates are going to give me ~$21k in cash. I’m of course going to invest that (defensively), but I could put it in a T-Bill and make 3%, so…. you know… free money!
Sir Mathius……..I see some interesting moves in the CD rates…Almost reminds me of the 80s….almost. There are jumbo rates available on 30 and 60 day buys at 3.3%.
Good luck on your solar energy investment. Hope it works for you….down here there are programs available like yours…..my step son bite the bullet and went solar and it reduced his energy bill by 90% for awhile…..until it is super cloudy. Or a major freeze…..Solar did not work in the big freeze. Even in sunny dry Texas, the solar is not 100% independent of your dreaded oil and gas fired energy. Still takes it. Wind power is a joke down here even though I hear Texas is the largest wind producing state…….it costs more that oil/gas powered plants on a KW basis.
My step son still pays an electric bill albeit cheaper but he still is dependent upon the grid….as you probably will be but I will await your report. Forgive if I do not wait with bated breath, however.
I will still be grid-tied / grid-dependant. The goal is not to remove myself from the grid (yet).
Rather, it is to (A) reduce / eliminate my electricity bill and (B) receive ~$21k in nearly-free money.
If the power goes out, I have a generator, but solar won’t be any help unless I add a battery (which I may once the tech is a bit further along). But that is as it is now. The only difference is that my monthly bullet is decreased (variable-and-increasing electricity cost vs fixed monthly payment on the system) and someone hands me a sack full of cash.
The math is squishy, but I expect to fix my payments at about $50-100/mo less than they are now (on average). So not a huge savings there, but with inflation and the cost of electricity increasing over time, that fixed payment becomes less and less while the avoided cost becomes more and more.
There’s just no rational reason not to other than my fundamental allergy to debt.
That someone who is handing you, a well healed individual, a pile of cash is the rest of us. You are picking our pockets pure and simple.
How are you enjoying those Social Security checks you’ve been cashing? You know.. the ones that are funded from my paycheck.
Setting that aside, we both know that the real source for that pile of cash is the printing presses working overtime. I wouldn’t be surprised to find the ink still wet.
I’m enjoying your checks just fine…thank you.
Wrong again. Printed money is inflation, a tax on savings. Since I and many other retirees are living off savings, it is directly felt. So as SK says, I expect something in return. At least a big thank you.
Hmmmmmm. Now had I invested those employee/employer contributions myself, in the same investments I have, I suspect my monthly “check” would be much, much bigger.
T-man is Mr. Scrooge … almost word for word!
So I guess I, VH, the Colonel, JAC, T-Ray, the man whos name won’t be mentioned and the rest of the gang are paying for it. I expect a fruit basket this Christmas!
The man who won’t be mentioned is more than fine with M-man getting that gift. Why are you VH, the Colonel, JAC and T-man crying over all the coin WE’RE ALL giving to the military industrial complex (to kill mostly innocent people), all the socialism gift to corporations, etc.? The answer? Because you’re all (maybe not the Colonel, although that scares me too) have convinced yourselves YOUR life is the one the American Dream is all about (or you’re cheap b’s). 🙂
Both the Col. and I have said that all government subsidies should be ended. No hypocrisy here.
I have also argued that SS should be privatized. Seniors in the system paid in with the promise of benefits so should continue to receive them. The younger set should have their contributions diverted to a 401K type system. Those under 35 should have all their SS funds, 12.4%, invested in a 401K that they can also contribute to. The percentage diverted would then be graduated up to age 60. Those under 35 would not get any SS payments on retirement. Those from 36 to 60 would have their payments reduced proportionally. To make up the difference, taxes paid on retirement plan distributions would go to the SS fund.
Please, please, please let your GOP friends ask for what you have asked for. That’ll guarantee they lose. 🙂 You may argue all subsidies should end, but you vote for those who wouldn’t think of it. 🙂
There is no one to vote for in order to to end it…Democrat, Republican, Independent, Communist, Socialist…etc. No one will end it.
We agree, Colonel. How many times did I say it here (and elsewhere) … we lost. Corporations won. Capitalism takes the credit for the end of empire.
And when it all collapses again … guess who gets bailed out? 🙂
How do we phrase that … corporate welfare? corporate socialism? capitalist socialism? I’m always confused.
Charlie, you’re so clearly confused.
If it helps the capitalists, it’s “a complex series of responses designed to protect the markets and ensure the flow of capital, preventing a systemic collapse and mitigating widespread contagion with an aim toward broader stimulus.”
If it helps The People, then it’s 𝓢𝓞𝓒𝓘𝓐𝓛𝓘𝓢𝓜.
🙂
We’re DOOMED. Let’s bring Bunker Boy back! Or is he actually still the president? Q seems to think so.
Donnie made a mysterious, unannounced, low profile return to DC on Sunday. Rumors are swirling.
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve gotten my hopes up…
You see, they FORGOT the damned guns at the last insurrection. I join you in hoping for a swift return. This time they won’t forget and he is making sure.
Actually, they didn’t forget the guns. Why you should watch the hearings. 🙂
Cry me a River!!! New York, Chicago, Philadelphia and other sanctuary cities are crying “FOUL” because of the numbers of illegal…..yes, illegal, unvetted, unvaccinated illegals that are arriving in these cities. They cry “we need help”…they cry “we have no place to put them”……all the while laughing at the problem the borders states have been having. NOW, since they are proclaimed sanctuary cities, they want National Guard and Federal help…..they want the help that is not being given to Texas and Arizona. It is not fair, they cry…..BOO F+++++++ hoo…..
=======
The surge in migrant drownings in Eagle Pass has “overwhelmed” local mortuaries and funeral homes, requiring the border town’s fire department to request refrigerators to store bodies, the agency’s chief told Fox News.
“There are so many bodies being recovered that the morticians are asking for assistance,” Eagle Pass Fire Department Chief Manuel Mello III, said. “I had never seen so many drownings like we’re seeing right now.” “We do a body recovery daily,” Mello continued. “It’s very traumatic for my personnel.”
The Del Rio sector of the southern border has seen over 376,000 migrant encounters since October 2021, averaging out to nearly 1,100 per day. This is my area of operation. I see it constantly.
Two weeks ago, 13 migrants died and 53 others were apprehended while attempting to cross the Rio Grande into the United States, according to CBP.
“Sometimes you’ll be walking in an area where the water will never go above your knee, but all of a sudden you’ll have a drop of about 10, 12 feet,” Mello said of the RIo Grande. “If you’re carrying a baby, you’re going to go down 10 or 12 feet with that baby.”
He said several children recently died while crossing the river.
“We had a three-month-old baby, we had a three-year-old baby brother that passed away,” Mello told Fox News. “The uncle was trying to cross, he fell into a deep hole in the river, let go of the babies.”
This does not even account for the numbers that are dead from exposure trying to cross private land. It does not account for the dead women and babies under the “rape trees” on the US side. It does not account for the number of murders that the cartels do on the US side by shooting their “mules” (human carriers of drugs). It does not account for the summary executions we see DAILY on the Mexican side.
====================
Now, Mathius and I have had this conversation before….he believes in open borders and unregulated drugs….in other words legalize drugs. What I cannot seem to make people understand is that if we had open borders (which we do now) it DOES NOT AND WILL NOT STOP THE CARTELS. They control the entire Mexican border and they still charge the people to cross into the US even at the bridges which are not closed. As it stands today, any immigrant can cross the border right this very minute and claim asylum. But, not without a cost. It will not stop the rapes and the murders….I do not understand why anyone thinks it will stop. Legalizing fentanyl will not stop the deaths. It will not stop the importation and black market of the drugs. An open border will not stop the atrocities because of the cartel control.
Close the damn border up tight. Make it criminal to cross it as Texas already does if they cross onto private property. Take the fight to the Cartels because Mexico will not stop it. I am here. I see it. I plan the logistics and manpower schedule for my area of operations. I see the deaths and the results of the rapes and murders and the dehydrated bodies on private property. Stop catch and release……and contrary to what the news media says…..it IS NOT PRIMARILY families crossing. Come down here and see for yourself but it is a war zone and will not go away.
Now, if I were a really evil person or a democrat, and I wanted to force everyone into electric cars (or more likely no car at all), I would not bother banning gasoline powered vehicles. No, not at all. What I would do is enact incredibly strict rules on gasoline stations. I’d classify even a small overflow as a major event requiring inspections and reports. At the same time I’d ban filling anything other than a tank. Then, I’d go after the fumes, demanding there be incredibly expensive shrouds with filters and vacuums to capture those fumes as the vehicle is fueled. I’d require strict inspections on a monthly then weekly basis and levy massive fines against the stations.
Filling the car yourself would be banned with attendants required to secure a license to demonstrate their ability to safely transfer these chemicals containing highly volatile hydrocarbons.
Workers of course would have to submit to monthly blood testing to ensure their health and wear a modified hazmat suit while working along with a respirator. Car drivers would be prohibited from leaving their vehicles while fueling, sit in the cars with windows rolled up or be confined a distance from the vehicle while the dangerous, noxious, hazardous chemicals are being transferred. In addition, no worker would be allowed to service more than one vehicle at a time.
That’s what I’d do. If some of these things do come along, remember who told you first.
Does NJ still have a prohibition on pumping your own gas?
Absolutely! It keeps the West African population employed. Nice people. I usually spot them a buck.
I tend to see mostly Indian people at the pumps, but I have seen some white men in the 60’s.
Yes, and I don’t mind it. It provides work for people who might not otherwise have an income. We even tip at least $1.00 to the poor bastards doing the work. Probably against you morals. 🙂
No one tipped 30 years ago when I lived there.
No one? 🙂 You saw every single transaction?
At this stage of my life throwing a dollar here or there is no big deal and merely expresses goodwill. I tip poorly or not at all for BAD service though. What is it that the “playboy Advisor” used to define tips as: “To Insure Prompt Service”.
In the old days, gas station attendants pumped the gas, checked your oil, checked your belts, cleaned the windshield, and if asked checked your battery and tires. That would be worth a tip but not just filling up the tank.
We’re generous people us socialists. We even use our own money. We figure they aren’t making much and they remember when you’re good to them. The volume of cars they have to deal with these days precludes the “old days” … think of the time it takes to do what they used to do. There would be some seriously pissed off people waiting to get a gas to go to work. Stop living in the past. If you tip the poor bastards, you might even feel better about yourself.
NJ & OR are the only 2 states that ban self-service. All our stations are pump your self. I could tip but then I would only be moving the money from one pocket to another.
Which is what cheepos do. 🙂
I can’t listen to this guy, even when he’s right (because his a douchebag and a liar), but I have no problem with saying goodbye to Pelosi. She’s part of the problem.
It is not about Pelosi. Please listen unless you support a Marxist police state.
I made it 13 minutes. Life is too short to listen to an asshole drone on. Here are my thoughts:
At the Kamala Harris segment, as much as I think she blows, she and Chuckie Cheese Todd are absolutely right. This is Tucker being a dick. Yes, it’s actually worse. 9-11 was bound to happen sooner or later. When you bomb people indiscriminately in the Middle East, when you overthrow governments and issue sanctions the people suffer from, they’re going to strike back sooner or later. They caught Bush’s America sleeping. It was a horrific day brought to you by our horrendous and murderous foreign policy for decades.
The damage done to American democracy far outweighs a single terrorist attack. This is Tucker being his dick self feeding red meat to morons. “Everything is comparable to 9-11.” What an asshole.
Now, to be fair, Superdelegates are an attack on American democracy and nobody seems disturbed by those.
As for a Marxist police state, we were there a long time ago. YOU should know this. Snowden.
MAGA does harm to our system of government every day. FACT. Tucker’s “declaration of war” is total bullshit. I hate having to defend Biden, but he DID SAY NOT ALL Republicans are MAGA morons (I added morons).
Tucker relaying an anecdote. How many times has he been wrong on those (there wasn’t a 10-year girl raped and impregnated in Ohio—ah, yeah, there was).
A Trump supporter spreading “authoritarian state” horseshit is COMICAL. “This is Soviet and there’s no other word for it.” Actually, BULLSHIT, is the perfect word for it. How can you pay any attention to this fool? A “lawful political event” … right. 🙂
Why are you so full of hate?
Tulsi lost her mind a long time ago. She’s parroting her father, who is also a right wing lunatic. I once promoted her when she lied about being progressive. She’s returned to her homophobic, right wing, psychotic roots. 🙂
Ad Hominem
Mathius, I’d like some bonus points for catching a fallacy.
Many of my favorites have to go on FOX Noise (Carlson mostly) to have a voice because of the Democratic corporate media pushing them out to the margins … Greenwald, for instance, but never confuse Greenwald for a right wing whacko. Tulsi had me fooled when she ran for President as a progressive, especially when she DESTROYED Harris in a debate, but … she then voted with the Democratic establishment more than progressives and once she was out of office and seeking relevance, she doesn’t refute Carlon’s bullshit ever (not that I’ve seen). It’s fine going after the Dems for their horseshit, but I haven’t seen her give it back to Carlson and wonder if that’s the game. Accept being a pawn and remain quiet about the absurdity of the GOP and Trump for the sake of air time. She’s certainly become a darling of the right’s version of corporate media. Greenwald has also, but … he’ll also push back when shills like Carlson step over the line. He’s no Trump supporter, that’s for sure. I doubt Tulsi could support Trump but her angst with the Dems sure seems more like revenge (justified, no doubt … the shit they pulled on her in the debates was typical DNC horseshit and VERY undemocratic) than making it clear her ideology lies somewhere in the middle/not progressive. Also, her constant “brothers and sisters” in the military is getting difficult to swallow. If you’re against those illegal, immoral wars, than why the hell is she still serving (if she is, I’m not sure) and/or why they hell did she serve in the first place? Being a “hawk” on terrorism, it seems to me, is comical since its the United States who are the biggest terrorists in the world.
charlie
Finally, something we can agree over. The left wing hold has pushed more people to Fox, as well as some other not so MSM outlets. But it is also that Fox has made a shift, not recognized by most on the left. Hannity is still a Troll in my view. But the rest have shifted a bit. And before you bring it up, Mr. Trump is an IDIOT for going after Fox for not towing his broken boat to shore.
As for Gabbard and others you have criticized for not going after the pundits when they do shows. That is NOT how you do media events. Experts tell you to have your own narrative and stick to it. No matter the question you give your answers for your narrative. That is what you do to get YOUR story out.
But it makes for lousy interviews as it results in the guest pretty much ignoring all the questions. So if the questions are important to you, then you come away not liking the guest. Frankly, I think more guests should nail the interviewer when they pose a false assumption, or unproven assumption, as part of a question.
You posted a video some time back of that ass-hat from CNN interviewing the ex. Ass. Sec Def, or whoever it was. He kept just making accusations in his questions, it was the worst journalism I have ever seen. Each time he got an answer he didn’t like he just moved to a more absurd claim, even using the phrase “election denier”. Journalists who have a history of such behavior are now being shunned by politicians and other potential guests. As they should be. I think viewers are equally fed up, unless you are a died in the wool follower/hater. Which is why Joe Rogan seems to just keep increasing his audience, I believe.
JAC,,,,,,in purgatory ….again.
Charlie, I am very curious to your response concerning when does protecting your property or self, turn to vigilantism. I just recently read about Asheville, North Carolina where the violent crime is on rise to historical highs. What was once a quiet tourist town has not turned or is turning into lawlessness…….apparently from Antifa. The police do not have a force strong enough to respond to 911 calls on theft, robbery, car jacking, and civil disturbance. So, let me ask you a couple of questions..(1) if there is no response to 911 calls, then do you believe that the public is justified in a violent response…..for example, killing someone trying to steal your car out of your driveway.
In these areas, where law enforcement will not respond or cannot respond, is it, in your mind, ok to protect yourself, your property, or the life and property of a neighbor? When is it ok for vigilante law to take over? I am not talking in the Charles Bronson Death Wish way……where would you justify it?
For example, the Castle Doctrine in Texas does not require a duty to retreat and you can protect your private property even away from your residence. The Castle Doctrine includes your office, car, boat, airplane, etc. (For another example, Lake Amistad (which is in my area) outside of Del Rio made news some time ago when a man and woman were killed on their jet skis by drug runners while on vacation. The Mexico border runs right down the middle of the lake and boaters and fishermen were being hijacked on the lake and kidnapped or robbed. After the extension of the Castle Doctrine, there has been no more robberies or kidnappings since two fisherman fired back and killed to robbery suspects on the lake. Everyone is armed and the problem has ceased to exist.
Ranchers were having problems of trespassing and cattle being stolen and line shacks being ransacked and burned, fences being cut, breaking onto barns and feed sheds….etc. Since the Castle Doctrine has been extended to cover all private property and trespassing can be a criminal offense, the ranchers are now protecting their own property and do not even have to call into law enforcement leaving law enforcement personnel to be more useful on the highways and such. All we have to do is post the property and warn trespassers that they can be shot..in both Spanish and English…it is beginning to work. Do you consider this to be a form of vigilantism or a solution to crime.
“Charlie, I am very curious to your response concerning when does protecting your property or self, turn to vigilantism. I just recently read about Asheville, North Carolina where the violent crime is on rise to historical highs. What was once a quiet tourist town has not turned or is turning into lawlessness…….apparently from Antifa. The police do not have a force strong enough to respond to 911 calls on theft, robbery, car jacking, and civil disturbance. So, let me ask you a couple of questions..(1) if there is no response to 911 calls, then do you believe that the public is justified in a violent response…..for example, killing someone trying to steal your car out of your driveway.”
“apparently from Antifa” 🙂
Okay, #1) In self-defense, sure, but sorry, no killing over a car. And if the police won’t respond, fire their asses.
#2) I justify it over defense of PEOPLE only. “Everyone is armed and the problem has ceased to exist.” If someone “attacks” with weapons of any kind a boat or car and brandishes weapons, fire away (it’s self-defense), but if someone is robbing a boat from a dock, I’d rather they not kill someone over it.
#3) “All we have to do is post the property and warn trespassers that they can be shot..in both Spanish and English…it is beginning to work. Do you consider this to be a form of vigilantism or a solution to crime.” Pure vigilantism. The government in all the cases you presented should be involved (law enforcement), not private citizens.
JAC is on hiatus, touring the country while listening to Jessica by the Alman Brothers on a loop. He cannot save you.
Thank you sir. He is in a loop, eh…….poor bastard.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/09/january_6_pipe_bombs_get_curiouser_and_curiouser.html
Ah.. so VP Harris planted the bombs herself!
I KNEW I couldn’t trust her!
She IS the Bomb, ya now!
Fed, Fed, Fed. From the escalator ride to Mar a Lago its been Feds all the way.
Good Morning SUFA.
1. The Meat Locker has been cleaned out. Wow, new record of 12 posts. A few more if you count the second try that also got locked up.
2. Our planned trip to the Northeast got cancelled. So instead we, Spousal Unit Leader and I, went north to see the heart of the Rocky Mountains. First day was atrociously smoky. Second day into Banff-Jasper National Park was not as bad and the third day thru the park was awesome. Fresh snow the second night knocked the smoke down. Then the trip got altered due to power failures in Jasper. A fire had destroyed the power station supplying the town and the north end of the park. Interesting note, Jasper has municipal backup generators. But not enough to run everyone’s homes and all the businesses. One gas station open and lines up the Kazoo.
So we had to leave the park a day early, no rooms or water, and head west. The smoke was no so bad most of the next day so I got to show SUL the McBride Trench. A very long and somewhat wide valley filled with forests and farms that was scoured out by glaciers. Then the smoke hit, hard and thick. After two nights in motels trying not to be outside other than driving we gave up and booked it home. To find the smoke here even worse. After almost 2000 miles of driving I am just a little tired this morning.
We had very strange air flow in the NW this past week due to a combination of a high pressure system and the hurricane off the west coast. For a couple of days the winds were from the east. They pulled all the smoke from inland fires towards the coast, while northerly winds from Cali. pushed smoke north. Then yesterday the winds shifted. Now the SW and westerly winds are bringing all our smoke back, combined with all the Cali smoke and that from fires in Oregon, Wash and B.C. You can not only smell it but kind of taste it. It is as bad right now as any of the large fires I was on back in the day.
Moral of the story: Go see the Canadian Rockies, Banff-Jasper if you can. It is good to go after labor day as the crowds are a little less than summer. If you go you will need Motels or Air BnB pre planned. I suggest driving thru the whole thing but staying in Jasper. A lot of day hikes and things on that end of the Park. If you have time then also suggest staying in Banff. We stayed at Lake Louise and there just wasn’t much there, other than an awesome glacial lake.
When I can figure out how to do it, I will post some pictures.
3. I see the snarky commentary hasn’t subsided any. And while the name calling seems less it still continues without any good reason. By this I also mean the ad hominem towards pundits and politicians when trying to make an argument.
I also award five JAC point, the most possible, to Anita for her nailing it. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 . Well done my dear.
4. We were in Canada when the Queen died. It was very interesting visiting with folks from the Commonwealth about this and how they felt. Even a group from Australia who we met during lunch at the Columbia Glacier lodge. In summary, I would describe it as mourning a distant relative or friend from our parent’s generation. She was of the Greatest Generation and they, to a person, felt she did the job with dignity and poise. Then we go to a place with TV in the rooms and got to see all the people the media dug up hating on the Crown and the Govt. First Nations especially, that would be Canada’s Indian tribes for those that don’t know. It was an very interesting conflict presented by their media. All honoring one minute and all criticizing and demanding reparations the next. While every person we talked to had warm feelings towards the Queen, they are not very enamored with King Charles III. Some speculated he may be the last Monarch.
5. Granted our sample size was small but based on discussions with locals, Mr. Trudeau is in trouble, at least in the West. Folks expressed disappointment and even disgust with him. And our own POTUS and govt. Then we ran into the Ausies who were outraged at their govt. over the Covid response. A couple of folks pointed out that if it were not for American TV and the internet they would have no idea about news that was not approved by their Govt. It seems the Govt funding of the TV system has led to censorship and outright propaganda being put out by the media. Bottom line, as is usually the case when I go up north, they are not much different that we are in terms of politics and viewpoints. And everyone we met was fed up with how tyrannical our respective Govt’s have become.
Nice update. I watch a bus life family from Eugene. He buys skoolies and has them mechanically tuned first then goes about building them out for sale. They currently have 6 busses on their lot in various stages of repair. They packed up for a two night trip to see a favorite band play, and while they were gone, a mandatory evacuation happened at their home base. 3 fully built busses and 2 being worked on were at risk and they couldn’t do a thing about it. Had they been home when the evacuation was called, they could have done something about all the busses on their lot. They were just stuck and praying for a miracle to save their investment. Luckily they were able to get back home and all is well.
The Canadian Rockies! Yes, pics please. I promised my mom that I’d follow her footsteps there and I will honor that promise some day. Her pictures were out of this world beautiful. Speaking of my mom, she’s been on my mind alot since the Queen died. She loved the Queen and all the formalities and etiquette surrounding her. It was all a game or a joke but she tried to live up to all that etiquette. I didn’t live up to those expectations but she kept me anyway 🙂 . I’ve been keeping up with all the mourning period business and have learned quite a bit about the history. I bet the monarchy loses its luster while Charles is King and I also bet William will bring that luster back when his turn comes.
Thanks for the 5 smileys. I was thinking Mathius was being cheap, but I guess its all about perspective. So thanks Mathius too.
We have progressed to the point that it seems almost every thing is broken.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/09/super_lawyer_leslie_mcadoo_gordon_calls_out_our_broken_legal_system.html
Our systems need a serious over haul. But this is far to much for any Congress or POTUS, not to mention individual Governors and/or State legislatures.
As I prepare the “Agenda” , for the JAC POTUS run< I keep wanting to add more to the list. But FIXING it all is simply impossible. Where to start is probably the better question.
Some interesting thoughts on how we can avoid a civil war. Even more interesting comments on the subject.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/09/avoiding_civil_war.html
Your answer to “how can we avoid civil war” is for the left to stop being so emotional and start to research the things they believe?
Jac… come on, buddy….
Mathius
You commit the same Sin far to often. What did I say? Recap: “Some interesting thoughts on how we can avoid a civil war.”
Not once did I say they were THE ANSWER or that everything in his piece was THE ONLY ANSWER. Nor did I imply that in anyway. I said I found the article and comments “interesting”. It looks to me like you did as well, since you responded with criticism.
Now since you brought up the issue, I do agree with one comment about the “left”. There are even studies showing this problems exists on the left (emotional responses lacking in logic). But just because it exists on the left doesn’t mean the “right” is not now suffering some of the same problems.
I also do not think that preventing a “Civil War” can happen by just addressing the “thinking or lack thereof” on either side of the political spectrum. I believe the first step to recovery is in re-establishing some Civility. The temperature needs to be reduced.
With that said, I believe we are facing a very serious “political” divide in the country, which have two very different views of our Nation’s future. It does seem true to me that we are no longer debating better ways for the Republic to function but whether the Republic should be replaced with Charlie’s Utopia, or some other Hellscape. Those who wish to retain the Republic, and maybe improve upon it, are now castigated as the “enemies of Democracy”. Very strange stuff indeed.
What civil war? All we have are semi-trained gravy seals and a ton of keyboard warriors. All we have is the inevitability of capitalism — end of empire.
charlie
While I AGREE that much of the rhetoric is put out by Couch Taters spouting off, there is a serous divide among us. It is possible that there is a three way split rather than just two. But it is the radical militants who have the megaphone so that is where the focus lies.
Capitalism cannot die without first killing Liberty. And therein lies the vey real rub.
I believe we are facing a very serious “political” divide in the country
I think we are already there. people are picking their friends because of politics and that is very sad, indeed. I have seen one family divorce over political differences, friends part company over political differences, golf mates quit over political differences…..nobody listens. Everybody tries to yell over the other one. I have noticed that the best way to end an argument is to not get into one in the first place. I avoid commentary on abortion and religion completely. I do not even discuss it. My spousal unit and I have very different opinions and we have agreed to just by pass the conversation. I am firm in my stance and she is firm in her stance…..not worth the argument.
Arguing religion with anyone is futile. It is the same with all this gender shit out there. I do not render opinions. And, if I do and it is a different opinion, I instantly suffer some “phobia”.
The crap I am going through again, I thought that I left in Vietnam and Bosnia with the killings and rapes and dismemberment’s I see on the border each and every month. I saw my very first up close and personal “rape tree” last week that had a mother and daughter tied to it with barbed wire and each had been raped repeatedly and left to die of exposure. I am tired of seeing dead bodies everywhere….Biden’s dead bodies….after the birds and ants and wildlife have been feasting on them. People do not understand that open borders will not stop the violence and drugs. Until you are on the border, you will not understand and that is why the Washington groups do not come here. They do not want to report on it and the media by passes it and ignores what is going on. But, you mentioned civil war, it is already here. Ranchers and townsfolk are protecting themselves. What I fear is the escalation of the Cartels as the ranchers, with our assistance, are closing off their routes. They are moving more and more to Arizona whose border is primarily Federal Land instead of private.
If a group manages to escape the cartels and cross the bridge, they are hunted down on the American side by the cartel and slaughtered. Even the buses arriving in New York and Washington are being met by cartel members and examples being made out of them…..by pass the cartel and we will kill you. In my area alone, we witness summary executions on the Mexican side of the river. Almost every day.
I was serious about the vigilantism…..it is beginning to happen and it will escalate and it will spill over to the innocent.
I’m really looking forward to it! She said it would be to die for.
Hidden meaning?
Mathius
You do realize don’t you that your use of the word “interesting” in your comment to your wife was wrong. The word doesn’t fit you comment to her, nor does your comment fit my citation.
You should have stopped with “Ok, fine”. 🙂
“Yes, Dear” is usually a safer tact.
But, hey, it worked all worked out, and I’m looking forward to a special dinner. She’s a killer cook!
You decry him saying they are emotional? Jesus H. YOUKNOWWHO, can’t you remember what it was like to walk in a room without a mask on? To offer some advice on Vitamin D, sunlight, immunity and be run out of the room on a rail? Point out Gore was pretty wrong about New York being under seventeen feet of water by now and see what happens. Stats on Polar Bears prove teh BS of decimation due to melting and just try to stop your kids from cutting off or out their genitals and you go to jail or lose custody.
Emotion is EVERYTHING these days, just look at the Brigham Young University / Duke Brou Ha Ha, the same as the Duke rape case (much milder then) or the Covington Catholic Kid (getting warmer) or January 6ths “riot”, Insanely hot. Hell, the dufusus (or is it dufi?) in the capitol didn’t even dump any tea overboard.
Funny thing, I do not see anything even distantly equivalent in violence, duration or most especially QUANTITY on the other side. (the one I won’t name is big on comparing one incident to one thousand while he blubbers on about anecdotes. As Yamamoto said about “America” (the place West of New Jersey and East of California, “I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant, and filled him with a terrible resolve”. Time shall tell.
“Hell, the dufusus (or is it dufi?) in the capitol didn’t even dump any tea overboard.”
I guess the 100+ cops that caught beatings (one lost an eye) don’t count. And here I thought you backed the blue.
Welcome home JAC….Banff Springs is gorgeous….spent a week there playing in a golf tournament on one of the most beautiful courses ever designed. You didn’t care if you hit a bad shot..just more country to see.
I made it out to Bamff in, oh, ’97? Thereabouts? Stayed at this fancy chalet where all the doors were too low and I had to duck to get into my room.
Gorgeous views.. even cynical too-cool-for-school, 14-ish year old Mathius couldn’t deny that. We went out on the glaciers – pretty wild for someone who had lived his whole life in SoCal.
You probably went out on the glaciers at Glacier View Lodge. We had lunch there, where we met those folks from Australia.
In the parking lot next to the lodge is a post marking where the glacier was in 1844. It is not about a mile or two from the glacier’s leading edge.
Anita,
Not one of our photos but from the web. But it is of one of the areas we saw.
Beautiful. Yep, mom took many pictures similar to that. Someday I’ll get there.
I know JAC is down on video links but I thought Charlie should hear a real farmer discuss subsidies.
I am not down on them per se’ Charlie was just posting to many of them.
When does he discuss subsidies because listening to these right wing bulletpoints and defense of a con man proves listening to this is a waste of time.
Man if you do not listen, you do not learn. Do I have to spoon feed you like some child?
Just read a headline that Lindsey Graham has introduced a bill restricting abortion as a federal matter.
STUPID move Senator. STUPID move.
Unless of course you are trying to undermine the Republicans running for Congress, so that maybe you can keep your cushy “opposition” position.
Establishment Republicans have shown themselves over and over to detest being in charge. They seem to prefer sitting on the sideline carping about those in charge, and throwing a monkey wrench in the gears when they can.
The problem is that 𝓐𝓑𝓞𝓡𝓣𝓘𝓞𝓝 has been such a phenomenally productive windmill to tilt at, that they just can’t let go of it.
For decades, it has reliably driven the base to vote and to donate. It has brought a ton of single-issue voters into their camp. It has been an almost unbelievably powerful wedge issue to get people to support Red Team.
But now that they’ve “won,” where does that leave them? Just drop the issue and move on? Nothing to see here? Kill off that golden goose?
Or move the goalposts?
Did you ever really believe that Republicans weren’t going to be satisfied with making it a states’ rights issue?
Republicans have NEVER believed in states right except as a defense against Democrats. When they have the power, they are always happy to use big government to impose their will on others. Don’t tread on me… but I’m definitely going to tread on you every chance I get.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again….
Democrats: Big government statists.
Republicans: Big government statists… in denial.
Mathius
Yes, I was optimistic they would let the States deal with it. Depending on how that turns out there could come a need for federal rules but that is not now. I don’t disagree with your characterization, as long as you admit both sides have their favorite footballs. No need to respond, I know you have said the same many times.
I do not see how proposing federalizing abortion serves any real purpose for the R’s now. This next election is a State Election, not a federal election. It does nothing to get out the base for State level seats in another State. It can in fact only mobilize the PRO Abortion base.
Washington next door is a perfect example. Senator Patty Murray (D) is outright lying about her opponents position on abortion. Her opponent has said she is OPPOSED to any federal laws on the matter. It is up to the State and the State will probably maintain access to abortions. It is after all a Dem majority State. But Murray keeps trying to link her to other R’s pushing federal laws. So now along comes Graham. How does his move help her? It doesn’t.
And it won’t help those R’s running in States like Arizona or Nevada either.
So what can be gained by undermining your own Party’s ability to gain a majority? It won’t change the State level debates and without a majority there is absolutely no chance in hell of federalizing any abortion ban. In fact, Graham will have opened the door for the opposite to happen.
I just do not understand what Mr. Graham is up to with this. As I said, it is plain STUPID at this point in time.
Well done Russell. WELL DONE!
Wait a second! That’s not the quote I meant to post… … trying again….
I like both of them.
Ah, but to keep that power they need your votes. So what they really care about is your vote. That is why they are willing to bankrupt our children and grandchildren in order to buy you off today. You meaning all of us, of course.
As you see the societal collapse and the piecemeal destruction of the protections of our Constitution, mull this over:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”.
-John Adams
We are neither anymore. Though one not need to be religious to be moral, it is only the fool who does not believe our morality stems from religion. You may, though educated in religion, abandon it and remain moral but will your children and grandchildren, with no framework, still be?
Depends on what YOUR definition of moral is, SK (named after all). My idea of morality clashes bigly with yours. I was brought up catholic and am an atheist (since I was in my teens). I believe in the beatitudes. Now, marry that to Trumpism, to supporting a military that is nothing more than a money (for the MIC) making terrorist machine, to a privatized prison system, etc. Sorry, you morality doesn’t work for me. Mine doesn’t work for you … and it has nothing to do with religion.
“Hundred cops beat and one lost an eye,” Meanwhile, One dead from a gunshot, one dead from being beaten then stomped by those cops , an indeterminate number being held without Constitutional protections in worse conditions than Gitmo, Thousands lost jobs, hundreds being bankrupted,
Yeah, sure.
say who the hell was ray Epps anyway? Waiting, waiting, waiting!
You say: “Hundred cops beat and one lost an eye,” Meanwhile, One dead from a gunshot, one dead from being beaten then stomped by those cops , an indeterminate number being held without Constitutional protections in worse conditions than Gitmo, Thousands lost jobs, hundreds being bankrupted,”
I say: Originally, I thought it wrong she was shot. Not anymore. That pretty much put an end to the fiasco (with cops who did nothing to stop her looking on from her side of the doors). Sorry she died, but those are the risks you take when you do really stupid shit. Frankly, I was surprised there weren’t more of them shot. I don’t know about anyone being stomped to death by the cops (is that true or another perversion of the truth—i.e., they were just tourists gone wild?). They were involved in an insurrection, whether they were bright enough to know it or not. They were brainwashed by a pathological liar and his political sycophants to attack the capitol. I was glad some lost their jobs. I was glad hundreds went bankrupt. When you’re that f’n stupid to think you can change an election by overrunning and desecrating the capitol (and think the military wouldn’t intervene, no matter Trump’s ignoring it all), you deserve the bed you made.
Charlie, if you had watched the videos I posted the other day, you would have known about Rosanne Boyland. Her cause of death is controversial. She was either crushed to death by the crowds, beaten by police while prostrate on the ground (video) or died of a prescription overdose of Adderall (coroner’s report) which is not likely. Sadly, her body was cremated shortly after the coroner’s exam so no other opinions could be garnered.
There is much we do not know about what happened on J6 that authorities are keeping secret. I think all of us have said that those committing violence and destruction should be prosecuted, but we also want full transparency which is not happening. We also want normal constitutional protections for the prisoners which includes bale and a speedy trial. This is not happening. Until we see all the facts, there will continue to be conspiracy claims. Your J6 committee is only looking at one side which is way most of us discount any of the findings.
“She was either crushed to death by the crowds, beaten by police while prostrate on the ground (video) or died of a prescription overdose of Adderall (coroner’s report) which is not likely.” Tman, that is very different from what SK (?) posted, stating it was the police “stomped to death by cops” … you’re right, we’ll never know all the details, but what was uncovered by the hearing you guys refuse to watch or acknowledge (videos of guys carrying AR-15s and Glocks (some in trees) is NOT in dispute.
“held without Constitutional protections in worse conditions than Gitmo”
Sweet jesus … can you get a little more dramatic. I doubt very seriously federal prisons are worse than Gitmo. You can’t help yourself, I know.
And you are blinded by your own bias. There have been many reports on the conditions the J6 prisoners have been subjected to include extended solitary confinement and lack of medical care.
I can point you two several former federal inmates and/or the work Chris Hedges does with the Rutgers prison program … all prisons (for the general public) suck and are horrific … but they are NOT Gitmo or anywhere near it. Prison sucks, and conditions for inmates throughout the country are horrific, but let’s not blow it anymore out of proportion than SK has a need to do. I wonder how many of you care as much about BLM protesters who were jailed (or anyone not in the MAGA crowd).
So you are using the conditions of other prisoners to somehow deny the conditions for those of the J6 PURGE?
Are there even any BLM protesters who were jailed for more than a day?
Keep waiting SK. That part always gets skipped over.
Paging Sir Mathius…….are you still around from your special dinner?
Let’s just say that I helped her with a special recipe. One that smelled distinctly of almonds.
Does that answer your question?
How dumb is the MAGA crowd? Enjoy …
Thanks for yet another example of garbage journalism. Let me give you an example of what should have happened.
When he says Barr was lying the next question should have been “Why do you say that?” “What is your reason”. Then let him answer and stop interrupting and basically arguing with him. Ya have to love all the arm waving as well.
She also makes the claim that many courts “proved” their was no fraud. That is a lie in and of itself. Courts did not prove anything.
The courts have refused to hear the cases. PERIOD. Same deal on the DC jail inmates. Everyone, just an opinion of mine, seems terrified to come forward and even try to do the right thing, the legal thing . Sort of like their lives and careers will be ruined forever!
Then again, ruminating on the shredded reputation of the late Ken Starr and what he had to deal with, I am absolutely right!
Had anyone been paying attention, Starr was one of the opening salvo’s of the left’s ad hominum destruction campaign.
Goldwater then Robert Bork.
Ken Starr was a disease that finally died off.
Who is Ray Epps? waiting patiently for a 20-20 camera crew to ambush him.
This isn’t looking right as I clicked reply on SK’s post. I think its going to show up as it’s own post.
The goon squad ambushed Mike Lindell in a Hardees drive thru yesterday and seized his phone. They can’t be bothered with Epps. This is more about intimidation than investigation. Then Charlie says Trump is toxic so he can’t get a competent legal team together. Can you blame anyone for not wanting to be the next one ambushed. Next they’re gonna start rounding up people who attend rallies.
The FBI & DOJ have not spent far more on the J6 investigation and this intimidation push than the ever spent on election fraud investigations. Had they even spent a fraction of this money on investigating the election, J6 would not have occurred. It is the lack of information or the hiding of information that spawns conspiracy theories and unrest.
The list of problems with the 2020 election is long. Zucker bucks, illegal rules changes (w/o legislative approval), Hunter’s laptop suppression (FBI involved), ballot harvesting, unapproved drop boxes, blocking observers, machines connected to the internet, outdated voter rolls, …..
https://rumble.com/vdntxf-unmasked-have-we-uncovered-the-truth-about-the-2020-election.html
Hang on to that, brother. It was stolen! 🙂
JAC check the meat locker for me would you? Its a video that may not be approved by the geniuses in charge of the internet.
Yep, you finally made it to the cooler along with all the other deplorables.
Thanks. Now it would be cool to hear what Charlie and Mathius have to say about it. I mean, we’ve been kicked around pretty hard in here today so what’s a little more.
Ah hell, here I go whining again.
Solitary confinement, no family visits, no charges, no recreation, no soccer, no volleyball, no clean water, beatings, no medical care. That’s not GITMO, that’s the DC jail. Most importantly , NO DUE PROCESS, NO HABEUS CORPUS, NO BAIL. Since charges have not been preferred, they are still inventing them, the unknown but alleged “crimes” do not rise to the level of this detention.
Of course one would have to actually have a longer attention span than one of Gregor Mendel’s fruit flies to recognize any of this.
And yes, GITMO is an atrocity, they should have been fairly tried and hung quite a while back but the absurd 20 year detention is more the fault of their attorney’s motions than the prosecution.
Yes, says the executioner (and man of morality) hand them all, even if they weren’t enemy combatants. I have a feeling if there is a God, you’re going to have a lot of explaining to do. 🙂
That’ in every prison, genius. Then again, one would have to deal in reality. 🙂
I think the following is an example of where someone can get the details correct but the conclusions wrong.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/09/12/republicans-victimhood-mythology-elections-00055908
First, the author is over using the term “victim” when attaching it to election disputes. A victim is someone whining about people picking on them. The election claims of “stolen” is more insidious. It goes to fomenting fear and anger in order to gin up votes. There is also the fact that the R’s have only been crying foul for two years now. Kind of hard to convince me that has created a “victimhood” mentality. But I do think it is becoming to standard an argument to claim the election was stolen when one loses. This has happened several times this primary season.
Second, Palin had a legit lawsuit in my mind. Just because some Wizard established a DIFFERENT standard of liable for public figures does not change that fact. The Times specifically mentioned her in its stories, yet left her out of the retraction. NO apology to her. That speaks to intentional in my book. While those running for office need a thick skin, nobody should be able to make up lies and spread them around about people just because they are more well known. Maybe instead of claiming she had no case he should be arguing for making the standards the same for everyone. Maybe a few big liable rulings would clean up journalism and public debate.
Now with that said I do think the R party has become to much a group of whiners and complainers, while not necessarily victims. Whining and complaining about the D’s, Biden, etc., etc., without presenting alternative solutions is just plain ………….. CHILDISH. This behavior is starting to look like it is going to give the Dems the Senate and maybe a House majority once again.
“This behavior is starting to look like it is going to give the Dems the Senate and maybe a House majority once again.”
JAC, NEVER underestimate the ability of the Democratic Party to fuck up a cup of coffee.
Oh…don’t forget that there are Republicans that could do the same to a one car funeral.
🙂 They do seem to be trying to outdo one another, Colonel. I know it won’t mean anything, no matter who gets the house and/or Senate, but it provides the spectacle “we the people” require to make believe it does. 🙂
Damn you Charlie…..now you go and make a statement like that….something actually profound…(but you are correct).
The Republicans and Trumpists (as opposed to Conservatives, writ large) are a bunch of crybabies with a victimhood complex a mile wide.
Never in my life – which, mind you, spans eons – have I seen such a sad assemblage of pathetic whiners. Their absolute conviction in their divine right to rule and moral superiority, their absolute conviction that they are destined to win, and that any loss must therefore necessarily be fraudulent…. pathetic.
Their desperate clingage to conspiracy theories, to a constantly shifting justification and rational de jure, to disingenuous tu quoques. It stinks to high heaven.
Worse, even still, they lack the courage of their own convictions. When they stormed the gates of the Capital, even in the moment they lacked the courage to admit that they did not care for the truth of the matter but sought only to instill their anointed king. No, they cowered behind flimsy lies and justifying obfuscations. Imagining themselves not as would-be conquerors, but victims of an egregious wrong, forced into action because of their own virtuous call to duty. Even to this day, they persist in pretending that their failed coup was merely a spontaneous display of overenthusiasm. For the same people who often proclaim variants of “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time,” it rings contemptible that they would cry “persecution” when charged with their crimes. Perhaps we should not expect so much from people too stupid to turn off their cell phones when engaged in obvious criminal activity?
The power brokers peddle these lies to their credulous base, and then site their base’s beliefs in those lies as justification for further stoking the fires and claiming victimhood… like some kind of monstrous ouroboros of bullshit.
The juxtaposition of their tough guy posturing replete with the “fuck your feelings” and “facts don’t care about your feelings” sloganeering versus the empirical reality of their sniveling self-deluded winging about stolen elections and self-proclaimed martyrdom at being held legally accountable for crimes within a framework which they wholeheartedly support (so long as it is wielded against others rather than themselves)…. it would be tragic if it weren’t so laughable.
No, JAC, the Republicans and Trumpists have no interest in being a political party in the traditional sense. They seek only to grift and ride the wave of astroturfed moral outrage into more power, more votes, more wealth.. the power being an end unto itself.
———
And, of course, all this comes atop the fact that they proclaim themselves the champions of freedom and liberty – yet they work in service of a would-be petty tyrant. I have no sympathy in my heart for people who claim the mantle of liberty as pretext to impose their own flavor of fascism.
Oh “come on man”….you are a pirate anchored out of harms way, eating Churros and swilling grog…chasing the occasional wench…. while basking in the sunshine “collecting rays.” However, I commend you on your speech writer and you read it well. And you summed it up very nicely…..I quote And, of course, all this comes atop the fact that they proclaim themselves the champions of freedom and liberty – yet they work in service of a would-be petty tyrant. I have no sympathy in my heart for people who claim the mantle of liberty as pretext to impose their own flavor of fascism.
However, your writer had it slanted one way while using the pronoun of “they” making it seem that it is only one side doing this heinous manage’. What your writer said pertains the to absolute state of our politics of today and could be said of the shenanigan’s of today’s party in power.
How do I know you had a ghost writer…..there was no “aaarrrggghhh!
I was addressing here the actions of the Republicans and Trumpists as they pertain to the events of January 6th.
I see no need to play whataboutism or both-sides-ism. You know I hold the Democrats in contempt as well. Yet the two sects have agreed to terms of “civilized” battle – victor determined by a contest of votes rather than bullets One side won and the other side responded by flipping the table, refusing to accept defeat, and resorting to violence. That is not fair play as I understand it.
If ye wish to ask me a question about the Democrats, then ask it plainly.
This That is not fair play as I understand it. coming from a Pirate? Fair play goes to the one with the largest canon and best use of a cutlass….
However, since when does politics, no matter the side, ever use fair play, sir? I am pretty disgusted with both sides…..no make that…totally disgusted with both sides and I am glad that neither side has a light saber…..maybe I should take that back……give them light sabers
I do not need to ask you a question about democrats, I know where you stand. However, I do sense a more objective side in you as I am sure, you sense the same in me. I do not walk in lock step and never have but in the last 2 years, I have learned a lot.
AAAAAaarrrrggggggghhhhh!
Thank you.
Feel better now?
Me thinks your anger has overtaken your reasoning. While some of your criticism is valid the extent of your condemnation is a little over blown.
Just take the Jan 6th event as an example. You do just what the leftwing media is doing. Stereotyping everyone that was in Washington that day with a brush created by a minority who actually instigated the break in of the Capital.
You also use the term “coup” falsely. That doesn’t help make your case.
I am also now wondering what exactly you think a “political party in the traditional sense” is exactly. Look forward to your explanation.
If they attended a “stop the steal” rally turned insurrection attempt, it’s a bad reflection on their ability to discern truth from fiction, but only those who participated in tresspassing and defocating (yes, that happened too), and breaking shit up were charged with crimes. How do I lump them all together? Easy enough (for not legal prosecution). They all believe the election was stolen, no matter the 60 courts (some with Trump and Republican appointed judges) that threw out the bullshit claims of “fraud” and dead people voting, etc.
No evidence will ever be enough to convince a man of a thing he is determined not to believe.
You both ignore any evidence that contradicts your own narrative, yet you criticize the others of being closed minded.
People do not believe the election was stolen just because that is what they want to believe. It is because they were never shown any good proof otherwise and pretty much just told to shut up. It has taken so long to get answers to many of the questions that it gets harder to overcome the doubt. Despite your claims to the contrary, all the issues raised during the elections have not been resolved.
Note the statistic in Anita’s video this morning. Around 70% of all voters thought something was wrong. That is not just one side.
Because this is not how the rules of evidence are writ.
The burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the other side to disprove it.
I refer you to Russell’s Teapot. A thought experiment: I claim there is a perfect china teapot floating in space somewhere in the vicinity of Mars’ orbit. Is it incumbent on me to prove such a teapot exists or on you to prove that it doesn’t?
If you “people” wish to assert that the election was stolen, it is on them to make their case, not on the others to prove that it was not. Dear Leader and his allies fought over 60 cases in court, engaged in a half-dozen audits, etc. This includes nonsense like the Cyber Ninjas who were clearly motivated to find fraud, not the truth. The same with the Republican-led investigation. The same with a dozen secretaries of state and similar. Yet all turned up empty.
They have failed to make their case and simply assert that it was stolen as a matter of faith at this point. Or by reliance on flimsy conspiracy theories such as those in 2,000 Mules. And I reject such an empty assertion. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
They thought this because of my aforementioned ouroboros of bullshit.. (This phrase, I profess, is honestly the finest work of literary art I have ever penned – I am immensely proud of it.)
The would-be king screamed fraud – even before the votes were cast. His allies echoed it. His echo chamber media expounded it. So the people believe it. And then, believing it, were used as proof-by-popular-opinion.
Surely, the election was not fraud free – that would strain any conceivable credulity. But to assert sufficient fraud to change the outcome of the Presidential vote (yet, oddly, not the down-ballot votes) is simply not supported by the evidence.
And “but people believe” is meaningless. People also believe in angels dancing on the heads of pins.
Well I mean, Joe did state he had the best election fraud team assembled in all of eternity….from his podium…speaking to 6 people in circles.
Oh I forgot! Everybody voted against Trump. Yyyyyeah. That’s why we see buyers remorse all over the internet now.
People also believe in angels dancing on the heads of pins.
But…but…..it isn’t true? Damn.
Hey Pirate,
You realize that your argument, which is used by many on the left media these days, could be used to make the opposite case, don’t you?
If the R’s won the down ballot races then how could Trump have lost the POTUS election? After all, the majority of voters are known to pretty much stick with one party in the upper ballot races. If there was fraud what makes you think they would use it to take out lower level races as well?
In short, the fact that R’s won house seats while Trump lost is proof of nothing.
You also seem to have forgotten that one of the issues with absentee ballots, besides no folds in them, was voting for only POTUS. I never saw what came of this claim but I do remember it being made.
I do no such thing.
The vast overwhelming majority of the crowd were peaceful. Naive, credulous, idiots, perhaps. But peaceful.
Of the, let’s say 1% who actually entered the capital, I would wager 90% were simply “swept along” with enthusiasm. The doors were open and the crowd was moving and they were there for it.
That leaves, let’s say 0.1% that were deliberately attempting to overthrow the government. Whether they believed they were “right” to do so is no matter. That is what they were attempting to do.
The thing is, whether you’re swept along or driving the train, if you are a participant, you are a participant. You have joined the battle, and ye best be prepared to win.
I suspect the good colonel will join me in this assessment: Their worst sin was piss-poor tactics. They came to win, yet conducted themselves in a manner virtually guaranteed to lose.
———–
But to my broader point: This same mob would gleefully call for blood if the shoe were on the BLM or ANTIFA foot. They only object to their “persecution” when the power of the state, and its monopoly of violence is turned against themselves. They perceive the state as a tool for their own use AGAINST others and support it as such, so I hold no sympathy that they reep what they sow.
I mean what I said.
The US is structured in such a way as to virtually guarantee a two party duopoloy. By design, it is INTENDED that the two act as checks on each other, fostering a political environment and a system of law which benefits the citizenry.
The ROLE of a party within this framework is to advocate for citizens whom it represents (President = all, Sen = state, Rep = district). Yet the Republicans do not represent anyone (except, perhaps, themselves and the donor class). They exist solely as an opposition party – single-mindedly focused on doing nothing except stymying the Democrats.
They do this because this forces the Democrats into playing the role of doing things. Doing things is dangerous – it has consequences you can be held accountable for. Doing things is hard, too.
The Republicans, simply put, rather than help “build the house” choose instead to sit idly by and criticize all efforts by the Democrats, loudly proclaim they could do it better, and all the way do nothing except sabotage the Democrats’ efforts. Worse, when they successfully sabotage the thing, they point at its failure as proof that they were right all along (see ACA/post office). Conversely, when the Democrats DO manage to construct something nominally good, the Republicans shamelessly take credit anyways (see infrastructure spending).
Setting aside my broader views on statism in general, this is not the role of a traditional political party.
Are you going to try and tell me the Democrats did not act the same way when they were out of power?
By the way, I posted a link to a piece a couple weeks back about how we came to have two parties and why that works better in our system. I used to share your view that our system helped establish it and maintain it (two parties). This academic argued that is was more a natural evolution of our internal politics/culture. If I get some extra time I will try to find it again.
P.S. My Pirate friend.
You, among many, keep claiming that those who stormed the Capital were intent on “installing” Mr. Trump or as you claimed “their own petty tyrant.”
Yet many who were there that day openly stated their goal was to get Congress to delay affirming the certification until adequate investigations could be completed. There really was no serious effort to address all the inconsistencies before Jan 6th. As many “legal experts” pointed out. The required time lines for certification do not allow a true review of potential serious fraud. Even worse, should such fraud be discovered after the Certification process, there is not remedy to the loser.
That is not the same as simply trying to install their guy. I will grant you that there was rhetoric, and I believe even from Mr. Trump, that he should be kept as POTUS until the investigation was complete.
The only possible outcome of such an approach would be:
1. Their chosen petty tyrant wins.
2. The investigation remains ongoing forever and their petty tyrant remains in office in the interim.
They shift the burden of proof and demand the Democrats prove the negative. Prove that there is NOT a Teapot floating in the orbit of Mars.
Yes. And many were not.
Yet this is the system the two parties have agreed to.
Is the Craps table biased against the players? Yes. Does this mean that you can play it as “if I win, I win. But if I lose, I flip of the table and grab an armful of chips”?
The petty tyrant and his allies had time to stage 60+ court cases. Even now, two years on, he still has yet to make his case. There is always – will always be – one more piece of evidence, one more review, one more witness, one more investigation.
Because that was ALWAYS the goal.
The whys and hows were never important – just the goal. It is why they have spent years hanging their hats on one conspiracy theory, one flimsy pretext, one more review, one more investigation after another, in a never-ending pursuit of the answer they want to hear. Any justification will do, just as long as they DO get a justification eventually.
And if one can’t be found, well, that’s fine, too! Just storm the capital, claim the proof is too well-hidden (but you know the truth!!1!!! O_o), hang the Vice President, and put your guy back in office.
I think you are missing one key point.
Yes the two parties created the system and they agree with it.
They lived with it because the violations of the rules was never enough to over turn the table.
But then it suddenly appeared that one side went to far, so the other flipped over the table.
Here we need to recognize that the original “two” parties that previously agreed still agreed this time. It was the presence of a “third” group, the populists, that causes the uproar. The old guard R’s seemed content to just accept the outcome, no matter what evidence was shown.
This was an inflection point. The kind that comes along once in awhile and results in a new game or set of rules. The STATE is working overtime to protect itself from any such threat in the future. The irony here is that those calling for the heads of the MAGA people do not realize that the STATE’s response to J6 and MAGA will blowup in their faces when it is their turn to raise hell over something they don’t like.
Whining and complaining about the D’s, Biden, etc., etc., without presenting alternative solutions is just plain ………….. CHILDISH
No, my northwestern friend, it is beyond CHILDISH. To complain without offering a solution is ludicrous AT BEST. Children can flunk a sand pile test in Romper Room, but complaining the sky is falling is sounding like Democrats. I just hope the electorate is smart enough to see what is happening to their pocket book when it is time to vote. The time worn complaints of Covid, Ukraine war, etc., being the causes of inflation and such are becoming as pathetic of telling the bill collector “it is in the mail.”
Our children and grandchildren are going to suffer the consequences…we will be sitting on the cloud looking down going…I told you so…..or….some of us may be sitting on the rocks of hell looking up…but it will not change the facts any. You cannot spend yourself out of trouble….and what is worse, we are still better off than the rest of the world. The only safe person right now is the one sitting on Thor’s Hammer at Laguna Madre’.
Charlie….for the last month and one half, I have scoured all the U tube Videos, news outlet videos, and news reports concerning January 6th….I have done so because of the “USE” of the term insurrection. So far, I have found that of the 910 people that were arrested, have been charged a variety of criminal activity but none are for insurrection. Unless you can point me to a specific charge somewhere, I cannot find it. I scoured the FBI arrests that are public and I scoured the Department of Justice public records and have found no arrests or convictions of insurrection. Basically, insurrection means an outbreak against authority….Portland, BLM protests etc are all forms of insurrection. MY WHOLE POINT IS….none of the charges and prison terms that have been handed down so far are for insurrection or treason or rebellion….etc.
Of the charges handed down so far, I do not see any that are wrongly decided. For example, throwing a fire extinguisher at a Capitol Police officer is assault. That is how they were charged.
According to the FBI, no weapons were confiscated in the capitol and no weapons other than the officer that fired the shot were even seen drawn and out in public. No other shots were fired, according to the FBI. (Now, I do not trust the FBI but that is what their report reads.) The FBI reports did not include Capitol Police Reports nor local gendarme reports. So I scoured them, as far as I could on public sites. There were some arrests made for possessions without a license with the most grievous being some asshole that had a pick up truck full of weapons that was intercepted before he even got to the grounds. This person was not even part of the goings on. Of the weapons charges, none were for firing the weapons nor brandishing the weapons….just having them without a license. If you can point me in the direction of charges rendered other than these, it would be appreciated.
The FBI report that followed up on leads of pictures being taken by cell phones of riflemen in trees, those posted on TIK TOC, U Tube, and other social media sites, said that there is no credible evidence that those pictures were part of the Jan 6 demonstrations, riot, or whatever adjective you wish to use. No charges have been filed, according to the FBI. In looking at some of those pictures, it appears that the same picture was used many times making it seem there were a plethora of tree hugging riflemen….that, according to the FBI has been debunked as authentic. But the absence of charges tells me that it is a non starter. The other thing of interest to me was the appearance of an old South Vietnamese flag but I can’t make out the entire flag. Again, if you can point me in the direction of actual charges, it would be appreciated.
I also, at your insistence, watched about 30 hours of the hearings. Here is my opinion. Most of it was grand standing and one sided and I think you know me well enough that I am not looking at it with jaundiced eye. I paid particular attention to specifics and not testimony that was heresay. So I followed up on what I considered to be out of bounds according to the world of The Colonel.
The carrying of zip ties I can see no reason for the carrying of zip ties other than using them to tie something or someone up. I did notice in the pictures that the zips being carried were the type from Lowes or Walmart or such stores. I did not see the type that we routinely carry on the border designed for prisoner incarceration or subdue. HOWEVER, I do not excuse the persons carrying such devices while entering the building.
The carrying of bats, batons, and flag poles I consider this to be a clear and present danger and I am surprised none were shot, except for one. In the world of the Colonel, I would have shot to disarm and if one was raised to me, I would have shot to kill. But that is me. You and I see differently on the use of lethal force. I deal with it all the time and you do not. Differences are to be expected. However, I do not excuse the perps of this.
The use of the term “ARMED” This was/is an over used term. It depicts guns….when you hear the term armed, most people think guns. You can be armed with a toothpick. Technically, I guess I could be armed with nothing but my fists. I am a combat trained Special Forces Officer. I am Ranger qualified. I hold 4th degree black belts in two different modalities. Just raising my hands could be considered armed, I suppose. So, to use the term “armed” it should ALWAYS be used in the context of …armed with what. This does not excuse the persons entering the building armed with various types of modalities clearly designed to cause destruction or harm. They should be charged with whatever crime they committed at the time.
The shooting death of Ashli Babbit A bad deal all around. The Justice Department, in dismissing the case against the Capitol police said
” the officer acted out of fear, mistake, panic, misperception, negligence, or even poor judgment and, therefore, cannot establish the high level of intent required under Section 242.” My synopsis…..is like Mathius saying “bad decisions have bad results”. The woman should not have been there.
So, in conclusion, after watching the hearings, most of it was heresay from one side. No other witnesses were allowed, if I read it correctly. Definitely a one sided hearing and the addition of two Republican persons on the committee carefully hand picked, did not sway my judgement any. I discounted anything from them. It was very clear that they had a political axe to grind and offered nothing tangible. But, that does not change the facts much. Once again, if you can point me to something tangible other than social media and parroting others, I will take a look.
This is long enough and my research is not finished. My next research is going to be in the direction of whether or not Trump ordered this to happen. I am going to look at whether or not his speeches were any more or less inflammatory than any other speeches from many politicians over the decades. At least he did not bang the podium with one of his shoes.
He would have said “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”
She decided to join in with a mob. Whether she was a true believer or a willfully self-deluded believer or just a nihilist, the effect is the same: she attempted to instill her preferred petty tyrant in the seat of power. When you play that game, sometimes your prize is a bullet in the head.
What’s extra pathetic, of course, is that this same mob loves and supports the use of state-sponsored violence. They cheered when their own Dear Leader used the fiat powers of his office to enhance the penalties against those who would oppose the power of the state (and its paramilitary enforcers). Or, at least, they did when they understood it to be used against their perceived enemies. Yet they cry foul and play victim when the state turns those same powers against them.
Had their favored fascist won, and the ANTIFA or BLM activists shown up to attempt such an overthrow, these same people would gleefully cheer any and all violence turned against the insurrectionists. They would enthusiastically demand the criminals’ executions. They hold no internal consistency on such matters. The determination of whether one is a victim of excessive enthusiasm or evildoer is determined entirely by alignment with their own ingroup.
It is only when they reap the penalties for themselves that they can glimpse the immorality of the system they otherwise support. Yet due to their faltering powers of introspection, they fail to see the bigger picture and find only their own victimhood.
As is their wont, they see only what they want to see. They have no use for truth.
That so many aligned with the mob would claim Babbit to be a martyred victim rather than what she was – a combatant who came underprepared* to a fight and lost – speaks only to the broader victimhood complex of the movement.
————-
* The lesson here is to not engage in a battle until you have already ensured victory.
The lesson here is to not engage in a battle until you have already ensured victory. Ahhh….Sun Tzu….well said.
Yes, sir…run with lemmings, beware of the cliff………………….the Colonel
Yes, he was a good student.
Ta-da-boom……..left myself open for that one.
I see a great double standard in your claims. For now I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I started this by talking only about one side’s issues.
Once serious question comes from all the events of 2019 to 2020. It goes to the same point I have made about how our leaders can set the tone for the loss of character among the population.
So you have a law abiding group who witnesses rioters and looters getting off pretty much without any penalties for over a year. And they see how these riots result in political action benefiting the rioters demands. They then believe an election is stolen and decide to demonstrate. Some use it to cause violence, others get worked up and follow and many more go on about the business of demonstrating. But now the second group is vilified as hypocrites because they are the “law abiding” group.
If the rules of the game change you are arguing that one side cannot adapt to the new rules. Heads you win, tails I lose.
I find it especially obnoxious how calloused the arguments rationalizing Ashli Babbit’s death are by those who scream to high heaven anytime a cop kills anyone who is unarmed, no matter what else they were doing at the time.
JAC…let’s you and I take an issue here as it pertains to Babbit. She was there. She did not get “caught” up in it, she was hard right wing as her husband testified to…she was lifted up to crawl through a hole in the glass..then she was shot while entering….through the shoulder and bled out on the way to the hospital. Yes, she was unarmed.
Now, please allow me to play devil’s advocate here. The Capitol police have a job to do..they are being pushed back..glass was breaking, people yelling, insults hurled and the job of the Capitol police was to protect the hallways and the congress persons trying to evacuate. That is the scenario. There was a definite breach that Babbit was being pushed through….You have a choice to make….fulfill your objective to prevent people from exploiting the breach or keep backing up until you cannot back up any further and exacerbating the width of the breach.
Now, mind you, I am looking at this from one perspective. What is my objective. I already said that I am very surprised more people were not shot. I would have protected my objective in the face of overwhelming force whether armed or not.
We face the same issues at night on the border….when a group of people are coming across the river at night, even with NVG, we cannot determine exactly whether or not people are armed with weapons. We shout in Spanish and English to halt or be shot. If they do not halt, we will shoot and have done so.
Now, did the Capitol police over react…I have to admit that my military training takes over here. A breach was established and being exploited. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. AND, ,look at it this way as well….did the shooting stop the breach? Yes it did.
A bad incident and a person died. Was it justifiable…well, the DOJ said yes…..I would expect that and I quoted the terminology used.
Tough decision that had to be made. It is time to also ask the question…what if the officer did not shoot and they continued to be pushed back and the breach was exploited to the tune that Congress persons were actually detained by the crowd…..see how the what ifs can be played……tough decision.
Now in retrospect, I do fault the reactions from Pelosi…from all the accounts that I have now read, including accounts from the left leaning media, she had a chance to secure the capitol offices and declined the chance. One wonders why?
Colonel
OK, lets just deal with Babitt’s death. Yes, she was there and should not have been. But let us look back at what is happening at the time of the “breach”.
Does she not have two police officers standing next to her? That is my recollection as I am not viewing the video at the moment.
She is also the only person trying to climb through the window. She is being pushed by she is voluntarily trying to get through.
The cop who fired is with other cops who do NOT shoot.
I agree the goal is to prevent the breach and protect the corridor.
So how could that be done? Well you have a woman in a vulnerable position trying to crawl through safety glass. You take her down and cuff her, while your partners guard the window opening. OR, you shove her back thru the hole and then let the crowd know that nobody will pass without being shot.
Recap: This is not a person charging an officer with a knife, bat or other potential weapon. She is curled up, stuck in the window opening. Nobody else near her has shown a weapon nor can they reach the officers on the hallway side of the glass.
I just happen to think the shooting was totally uncalled for and more the result of cowardice by one officer. They guy who did the shooting also had a history of bad judgement. Like leaving his gun in a bathroom. Another example of someone who should not be in law enforcement but we don’t find out until they kill someone. They don’t get fired but instead retired with benefits. The dead person and their family get squat.
I believe my suggested alternative actions are reasonable given the situation at the time and the evidence we have seen. Besides, the police were not protecting anything that was worth another person’s life. Yes, that was sarcasm, since you brought Pelosi’s name into the discussion. 🙂
Points are well taken……but, once again, here is the language from the Justice Department
” the officer acted out of fear, mistake, panic, misperception, negligence, or even poor judgment and, therefore, cannot establish the high level of intent required under Section 242.”
The Justice Department made this statement. They pretty much said that he was an incompetent coward but even then, it does not rise to the standard of Section 242 and its requirements to warrant prosecution. You and I both know that the guard was not going to be tried. To find him guilty, would have given credence to the mob. Unfortunately, guilty by association.
Now, I will agree with you on the past of this officer…if he had a history of being looney tunes, then he should have been relegated to trash pick up.
One side note….he has snot escaped the shooting….he will live with his decision for life. Dream about it. I wonder where he is now….I do not know.
Side note. I just watched a video of the shooting. There were at least 5 cops right there. Every cop turned and walked away, then BOOM. Seems like the cops on the outside gave the ok to the shooter to fire away once they were out of harms way.
Antia, my dear,
Would you please imagine a scenario where Mr. Trump won a modest victory over Mr. Biden. The left makes loud claims of fraud, yet never makes their case convincingly. When the time comes, ANTIFA and BLM show up at the capital.
Instead of a handful of cops, they are met by a full battalion in riot gear (because Mr. Trump would have surely ordered such a display of force – it is his nature, I think you’ll agree).
Despite mostly peaceful protests, some core of militants followed by a much larger gaggle of “overly enthusiastic” participants breach the barricades, heading for the capital, seeking to change the outcome (or perhaps, just stall it until they can consolidate enough power to change it?).
Picture, now, in your mind’s eye, the BLM rioters and impose that image onto the Capital. Take a moment – really picture it, put yourself in this alternate reality.
And now tell me, Anita. How might events have proceeded from there?
Do you believe you would, personally, have reacted differently? Do you believe you would split hairs between riots and protests and coups? Good actors and swept-alongs and instigators? Would you be as concerned with the plight of one member who played stupid games and won stupid prizes? Would others with whom you are nominally aligned?
Some completely unrelated music for you while you mull that.
I like how you frame that so narrowly as to lead me to the answer you want to hear. YOU are the one who wants no comparisons and what aboutisms. So let me offer that you leave out a lot of stuff like the many attempts to clear the air long before J6, the denial of National Guard troops and that objections to the electors never got heard. The list is long. YOU refuse to give any validity to any of the claims. NONE And that is a problem we all have to live with. That mass psychosis works both ways you know.
Love that tune though, even though its pretty deep.
Oh, and listen here Dread. There are only two people on this board that have my blessing to address me with terms of endearment, And you ain’t one of ’em. 😉
Anita, my love, you tell’em!
Right on Charlie!
Am I the other one?
RE “mass psychosis”…
The official framing of the mass formation (or mass psychosis) “phenomenon” is misleading and wrong in terms of what the whole true reality is. The false hope-addicted psychologists and their acolytes want you to believe this is “just some temporary occasional” madness by the masses when it is but a spike of a CHRONIC madness going on for aeons with “civilized” people — read “The 2 Married Pink Elephants In The Historical Room –The Holocaustal Covid-19 Coronavirus Madness: A Sociological Perspective & Historical Assessment Of The Covid “Phenomenon”” …. https://www.rolf-hefti.com/covid-19-coronavirus.html
One of these mainstream psychologists who have been spreading this whitewashed reality, Dr. Desmet, also fails to see that the PLANNED Covid Psyop is a TOTALLY deliberate ploy because he doesn’t think (after more than 1 year, even 2 years, into this total PLANNED scam!) it’s ALL intentionally sinister as he stated in a prior podcast (this makes him witting or unwitting controlled opposition).
In the May of 2022 podcast with James Corbett he stated that “some people tend to overestimate the degree of planning and intentions” (behind the COUNTLESS, VERIFIABLE, FULLY INTENTIONAL, FULLY PLANNED atrocities by the ruling tribe of psychopaths over the last century alone) and see all of it as being planned which Desmet called “an extreme position” … Sound logical thinking is “extreme” and therefore false and sick in his demented delusional view!!!
In his overpriced misleading whitewashing old material regurgitated book the psychology of totalitarianism he too states that “There are countless … examples that seem to point in the direction of a plan being implemented, such as the fact that the definition of ‘pandemic’ was adjusted shortly before the coronavirus crisis; that the definition of ‘herd immunity’ was changed during the crisis, implying that only vaccines can achieve it … [he continuous with several other obvious facts of an ENTIRELY PLANNED event, especially discerned through the totality of all these facts].” “SEEM to point in the direction of a plan”??? No! They most evidently, clearly, and irrefutably DO demonstrate and prove it IS a COMPLETELY AND FULLY DELIBERATE PlanDemic! A big scam. An Entirely Planned Holocaust against the non-ruling herd of people (see cited link above). A coherent 12-year old kid can figure that out.
It clearly shows Desmet’s own complete lunacy. But because almost everyone in the culture is a member of mass formation (madness), including the “woke” people of the alternative media domain, hardly anyone recognizes Desmet’s lunacy. Not surprising that he has even become some type of popular “guru” among the adherents of the alternative media landscape and his whitewashed fake narrative strongly resonates with both mainstream people and alternative mainstream folks.
With his false use of language Desmet obscures or hides the true reality instead of directly and uncompromising exposing it — aiding the obfuscation of the vital reality of what the ruling authorities really are. He does the same thing when he speaks of ‘the elite’ (as he does in a number of podcasts) when, in reality, they are THE SCUM OF HUMANS because they are REALITY-VERIFIED PSYCHOPATHS (see referenced source above). Yet in the Corbett podcast he “teaches” us that we, the masses, need to start thinking differently. Right… how about YOU start with sane instead of insane thinking/talking/”teaching”/etc, Dr. Desmet?
How do self-styled “truth-tellers” wake up the masses to the so-called truth when they THEMSELVES use lies with their deceitful fake language???
No one is “teaching” or “waking up” the ignorant masses to the CORE truths with lies, with the official “language of lies” (see cited source above).
This all means Desmet is ALSO a member of the masses of lunatics, an ACTIVE CARD-CARRYING MEMBER of mass formation!!! When, if at all, will he wake up from his state of mass psychosis, his “invisible” stupidity? When, if at all, will he face the TRUE and FULL reality instead of hiding behind fantasies such as his whitewashed “reality” of human civilization?
It shows we live in a global mental asylum with criminal and/or delusional mainstream psychologists, scientists, and docs as the guards, “teachers” and “therapists” … The blind/criminal/mad leading the blind/criminal/mad; the blind/criminal/mad adhere to the blind/criminal/mad = the human madhouse.
Worst of all, perhaps, the mass formation/mass psychosis notion frames the problem as the public being a mere unaccountable non-culpable victim in this phenomenon (the gist of the circular argument is: the masses should change their thinking but they got brainwashed so they’re victims). Nothing could be further from the truth (see referenced source above).
Desmet is right in that truth-activists must fight against mass formation psychosis (human madness). That also means exposing HIS deeply destructive mad part of it. This comment serves, in part, that objective.
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Is it your contention that:
1. Two wrongs make a right
2. Grownups are incapable of making decisions for themselves and purely mimick what they see others doing
3. That looting a Target is equivalent to attempting to instill your preferred dictator by force
Is it your contention that:
1. Two wrongs make a right
2. Grownups are incapable of making decisions for themselves and purely mimick what they see others doing
3. That looting a Target is equivalent to attempting to instill your preferred dictator by force
I have nothing ill to say about those who wish merely to demonstrate.
Ok, perhaps I think they’re credulous idiots, but to be fair, I think that about most people anyway.
My dear Pirate,
I am not making any claims of right or wrong. I was commenting on how behavior of leaders have a corrosive affect on the population. I am suggesting that those who normally might stand for law abiding behavior can be corrupted by watching others let off the hook and get benefits from their bad behavior.
We both know that the psychology of things can deter one’s ability to make rational decisions. I think this can happen at large scale.
So I am not saying two wrongs make a right. I am saying that if one side sees that wrongs have influence and go unpunished they will eventually take the wrong course as well. It takes a very special someone, or many someones, to overcome that cultural pressure.
As for the BLM/Antifa riots and demonstrations. I have stipulated before that not everyone in those riots were instigators. And not all demonstrations turned violent. But the leaders of some of those demonstrations did in fact incite the riots, then tried to deny it. But it is also a fact that many people who committed crimes that summer spent no more than one night in jail, and many had all charges dropped. That includes those who tried to burn a FEDERAL COURT HOUSE in Portland.
They are not “leaders.” Neither the would-be petty tyrant nor the actual petty tyrant.
Yet, of course, you are not wrong, by their mere existence, they are corrosive. Perhaps some more so than others, but still.
Perhaps. But I will never accept the illogic of “two wrongs make a right.”
Often even more so at large scale.
Do you imagine that the millions who followed Hitler were somehow intrinsically worse and less moral than Americans? No, “mass psychosis” is a very real phenomenon.
It explains, for example, also, why 74 million people voted in favor of an obvious sociopath and snake-oil salesman like the petty tyrant.
You say this, but all I can see is “but they felt it was ok to do the wrong thing because someone else did something they felt was similar and got away with it.”
All they had to do was NOT engage in violence.
If your daughter saw her friend get away with [objectionable activity] and getting away with it, would you accept a similar rational from her if she did it?
Or would you say “honey, I understand you’re upset. Life is unfair sometimes.
Your friend deserves to be punished and I hope that happens, but you still cannot do [objectionable activity]”?
this does not surprise me. You oft have a more even keel than many.
That all may well be true.
Even stipulating it as the literal gospel truth, it yet holds no bearing on the matter at hand.
“But they did [thing]” does not excuse the actions of others.
The persistent whataboutism and tu quoue is a daminng admission in its own right. If the “defense” of an action is “but they did it, too!,” then that is an admission of wrongdoing, not a justification.
If you wish to ask me about the BLM riots, you may do so plainly, but I refuse to be drawn into a comparison of the two as pretextual excuses for the latters’ bad behavior.
You know, none of This is about the individuals actions taken by the people involved. It isn’t about two wrongs making a right. It’s about corruption in our system, that pretty much ignores one and wants to over punish the other for political reasons.
To be clear. Two wrongs are still two wrongs and both are WRONG.
You agree mass psychoses can happen. That is all I am saying, although I am getting at something deeper than just a psychosis. More a societal wide cultural rot, if you will.
For the record, I see the Trump folks as much less wrong than the Hitler folks. For obvious millions of reasons. A special note is worthy here. The actual Hitler supporters were a minority. The rest just remained silent until it was to late. Then it was go along or go away to prison camp.
I assert no comparison between the two except insofar as it supports your point – or at least, as I understand your point – that a powerful person may alter the psychology of a people en masse.
The two are NOT comparable evils.
(Not for nothing, but one was also frighteningly more competent than the other, too – a saving grace, perhaps, for the Petty Tyrant, that he was too inept to be comparably evil.)
I digress.
There is a great deal of research into this phenomenon, not least of all thee Stamford Prison Experiment.
Yet, still, I will not excuse a “good German who was manipulated by society wide cultural rot into joining the Nazi party and, really, he just went along with it.” We have a word for that person. That word is “Nazi.” Are they as bad as, say, SS torturers? No. But are they still Nazis? Yes.
In the same vein, though, again, not of anything even remotely comparable scale, a supporter of [bad action] in service of the petty tyrant is still a supporter of [bad actions] in service of the petty tyrant. That they were swept along or victims of circumstances has to be considered as mitigating, perhaps, but it does not excuse the behavior.
That said, in the former instance, defiance was dangerous. It put your physical safety at risk. You had to be brave and stand on strong principles to risk bucking the cultural insanity. In the later, one need only ‘do nothing’ to stay the moral course. Protest if you will, but they chose violence – no one made them do it.
————-
I guess I would ask: What is YOUR point in all of this?
To quote a liberal progressive friend of mine, who sometimes posts here, under many names, my point is that their actions can be explained or understood but not condoned.
Did I get that right?
Last video (promise). Here’s how the Democrats will hand the elections back to the GOP (minus the abortion issue that still might sting the GOP). Corporations ruining life for Americans. DO NOT BLAME THE UNIONS.
Trying to be fair here but I am having trouble swallowing all the claims.
Why? Well around here the railroads have been replacing ties and tracks for about fifteen years now. They have built new fueling stations and added short lines to accommodate MORE TRAFFIC. These guys are claiming little capital investment and reduced freight shipments.
That is completely FALSE here in the inland Empire and NW. The demand for rail service has increased.
I understand the issue of productivity gains and how that is an issue easily exploited by Labor or others. And sometimes that is justified. But note this productivity came from increasing train size. The Unions had nothing to do with that. More cars and engines is a Capital intensive investment by the Company. Yes, the labor required has been reduced. Because much of that labor was not needed since about the mid 20th century.
In the region where this particular engineer lives, the farmers call the railroad workers “featherbedders”. There is an historical reason for that. Like watching State highway crews fix a pot hole. One guy works while 5 lean on shovels supervising.
Charlie, these issues are much more complicated than you make them out to be. It is not always Corporations or Unions Bad. Since your interviewer wants to blame the Railroads for supply chain problems why not ask a simple question. If it was not Covid then why wasn’t the supply chain broken before 2020??????
“If it was not Covid then why wasn’t the supply chain broken before 2020??????”
Because they were willing to put up with a horrendous contract for far too long. You know, if they want to eat, let them work.
I DO NOT like the term “FASCIST” being bandied about not unless you feel that historically it refers to the extra legal, dictatorial acts of Franklin D. Roosevelt too. Even then, one would be wrong to use it. Authoritarian yes, fascist no.
The use of the term “FASCIST” which makes my blood boil has two purposes, one, to make blood boil and the other to very carefully and deliberately DISTRACT from other things happening be they Antifa and BLM riots, extra Constitutional illegal detentions, prosecutions, arrests, indictments and smears. Good old fashioned smears of people, their reputations and their political positions. 70,000,000 semi-fascists huh?
Gore still bitches about the election, Abrams still thinks she is governor of Georgia and Hillary thinks she is President. NONE have a leg to stand on. Trump just may. While the abovementioned trio can point to absolutely nothing, even an idiot or two can see that something rotten went on in 2020. Did it rise to the occasion of turning the popular vote? Absolutely not but did it rise to the level to change the electoral vote in six states, probably since only 40,000-50.000 votes made the difference.
“Gore still bitches about the election, Abrams still thinks she is governor of Georgia and Hillary thinks she is President. NONE have a leg to stand on. Trump just may. While the abovementioned trio can point to absolutely nothing, even an idiot or two can see that something rotten went on in 2020. Did it rise to the occasion of turning the popular vote? Absolutely not but did it rise to the level to change the electoral vote in six states, probably since only 40,000-50.000 votes made the difference.”
This is LITERALLY TOO FUNNY! 🙂 🙂 🙂 but perhaps I forget. Did anyone other than Bunker Boy actually have their minions ATTACK THE CAPITOL? 🙂
It’s not fascism when WE do it!!
Per our friends at Dictionary.com:
Fascism
noun
fas·cism ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
————
Do, please, explain to me how the United States – particularly under Petty Tyrant Trump, does not qualify under the above definition?
I know another pirate who used to troll these waters… if he were found, how long do you think his essay/diatribe might be on this matter?
Except fascist doesn’t describe Trump. If you remember, in his inaugural speech he excoriated the state and said that from that moment forward the power goes back to the people.
I happened to love that part as all the Bushes, Clintons and Obamas sat feet away.
The Petty Tyrant SAID practically everything.
He governed as a wannabe dictator, an incompetents’ idea of a strongman autocrat.
More importantly, when it was his time to yield power, he chose to stoke his base into a lather and turn them loose (on a conspicuously poorly defended Capital) in a last-ditch effort to hold onto the reigns of power.
Dude! You’re so dramatic. You will say anything to convey your hatred of Trump. No matter what we say, you shoot it down. That’s called shutting down the conversation. You’re better than that.
I also wonder, SK and others to be mentioned but it would take too long to type out your names: Did any of you have a problem with the FACT the GOP gained seats and didn’t experience the so-called “blue wave” … like, why didn’t all the Republicans lose if it was fraud? Why did so many of the battling ground states have ballots with JUST down ballot votes and NOTHING for the Presidential? Inquiring minds would LOVE to know how you can claim an election fraud when your people clearly did FAR BETTER than was expected after 4 years of torturous babbling by an idiot.
Perhaps I can clear this up for you, Charlie: only your side is capable of wrongdoing.
If something is amiss, the only viable explanation can be that your side did something wrong.
Thus, if there is a mismatch between the top and bottom of the ticket, the fraud MUST be in whichever instance your side won.
How about the FACT, that under sworn affidavit, there were statements made of reams of ballots where there were only votes cast for president. And boy oh by they were all for Biden.
I would firstly ask you for a credible source that such a claim has even been made. Then I would ask about the credibility of the claimant.
It seems to me that you jump from one accusation to the next. The effort to debunk a nonsense claim is an order of magnitude greater than the effort to make such a claim.
I have seen dozens, perhaps hundreds, of such claims being loudly proclaimed and the quietly abandoned. I have better things to do with my time than chase phantoms.
You may not like it but it ACCURATE when describing our economic/political system ever since Roosevelt and Wilson. I will grant you that Teddy was a piker when compared to Wilson or FDR. I still think Hamilton was the first, but the name had not been invented yet.
Your blood boils for the same reason my fathers and uncles boiled. The word brings memories of NAZIES and Mussolini after he cozied up to Hitler.
That is why our academics abandoned the term and starting using the phrase “mixed economy” after the 1930’s.
But you are 100% correct in why it is used today by politicians and pundits. The goal is to end debate. To denigrate and thus marginalize the opposition.
We are back to the days before the WW II when the socialists, and especially Communists, were calling the Fascists “far right wingers”. When in reality all three were trying to install some form of Socialism. I see three clowns standing there pointing at each other screaming “your not a real socialist.”
Let us not forget that the original ANTIFA were Communists. It seems the modern day version is as well.
SK, I see far more characteristics of fascism in the current administration than I ever did with Trump. Fascism involves the voluntary amalgamation of the corporate world with government. We see that in the censorship pushed by the Biden people involving both the MSM and Big Tech. We also see it in how the government agencies are used, e.g., the IRS under Obama, the targeting of reporters under Obama, the current targeting or all people aligned with Trump by the DOJ & FBI, not to mention the targeting of Trump himself during the Russian hoax probe, the two impeachments and the current Mar-a-lago incident.
I would add to your list of over used words the use of tyrant. Again, I see far more tyranny in the current administration. If Trump was such a tyrant, then why did he not target reporters like Obama did, why did he not order martial law in the rioting cities, why did he work through the federalism system (i.e., states) during Covid? No, the lock down tyranny came from the states and in most cases from democratic state governors. Now we are getting the green new deal tyranny from this administration and from those same governors.
I might also point out that in the Time magazine article where the Ds bragged about how they engineered the 2020 victory, they volunteered that if Trump won they would go back to the streets. This is a clear admission that the 2020 riots were engineered to make Trump look bad and explains why the Ds in the rioting cities did little to nothing to stop it.
Also what about the riot DC on Jan 20, 2016? It was far bloodier and more destructive than the one on J6. If you sum up the total destruction and bloodshed during the Trump era, it is one day vs dozens, millions of dollars vs billions and 2 lives vs a dozen. Take the log out of your own eye before removing the splinter from ours.
T-man makes a good and valid point: “Fascism involves the voluntary amalgamation of the corporate world with government.” The Dems are guilty of this since Mr. Slick Willy.
But … when you compare Trump to it, you lose me. Whatever serves HIS interest is what he pursues and that certainly includes the corporate world. For all his talk about cleaning the swamp and hiring the “best people” … well, unless you ignore the results …
I see wage and price controls coming. To be announced with great fanfare, they assume, probably correctly, that no one will remember what a debacle they were under the Nixon Administration.
I had that awful thought last week. Then thought better and hoped the leadership would remember.
What a travesty that was…wage and price controls……DO……NOT…….WORK.
When you are spiraling out of control, have lost momentum, thrown out all that you can what to do next? Who cares about empty shelves anyway? Besides, part of the buzzsaw that Carter ran into was because of it.
That should have been put into place during the pandemic.
JAC, down here.
That which can be destroyed by the truth deserves to be.
If “the left” (ha!) asserts a bad argument, then it is a bad argument and it deserves to be torn asunder..
I think this might ordinarily be a good argument, but in the case of a contentious election like that of Petty Tyrant vs Geriatric Cardboard Cutout, I’m not sure this logic still holds.
Mathius’ widow – a registered Republican – held her nose and voted for the Geriatric Cardboard Cutout. Her father, who donated rather significantly to the Petty Tyrant in ’16 voted against him in ’20. Both voted for Red Team on the rest of the ballot, however.
Though those are just two anecdotes and thusly make weak arguments, I’d suggest they are not wholly uncommon. Add into this a heavy dose of gerrymandering which makes down-ballot contests ‘safer’ vs the top-of-the-ballot which cannot be subjected to gerrymandering, and I don’t think the scenario is remotely implausible.
That, of course, proves nothing, but I don’t think it makes the contra-case either.
If you’re already rigging and stuffing ballots, why WOULDN’T you help your own side down-ballot?
Wouldn’t Dear Leader be stronger with more down-ballot victories? Or, if he loses, wouldn’t those same down-ballot victories weak the opponent? If you’re already doing it, it’s a freebie, no?
I agree.
I merely posit that if there were enough fraud that the top-line result is in doubt, then the down-ballot results must also be in doubt. That’s not to say they’re wrong or proof of anything.
But if Petty Tyrant’s fraud claims were legitimate, he simply posits larger and larger error bars around the WHOLE ballot, not just HIS share of it. If those error bars are large enough to affect the top, they’re (almost certainly) large enough to affect the bottom.
Moi? Perhaps you have confused me for someone with a similar name?
Even so, I’m not sure what argument you’re making here.. feel free to clarify?
“I merely posit that if there were enough fraud that the top-line result is in doubt, then the down-ballot results must also be in doubt. That’s not to say they’re wrong or proof of anything.”
I agree that if fraud occurred it should taint all ballots, not just POTUS. If all seats were included on the same ballot.
I was simply pointing out there were reports of ballots with ONLY the POTUS block completed. I neve saw what came of these claims. Charlie points out there were also ballots with lower races filled out but NOT POTUS. That is easier to accept as real, in my mind anyway. But here is the thing missed in that argument. The down ballot races got FEWER votes that POTUS.
So none of these supposed facts prove anything. At least you and I agree on that point.
(See my response to Anita just now.)
My response to Anita will likely be applicable here as well.
Yes, but this takes us back to the burden of proof problem. Petty Tyrant, Anita, and co, assert fraud. They assert Petty Tyrant won. They have not proven their case. Yet they demand to win anyway.
They demand you and I prove them wrong. Yet their insurmountably high demands for proof can never be met. If this claim is dismissed, there will always be another behind it. Another investigation. Another review. They hold us accountable not just to disprove their claim – a fallacy in an of itself – but to prove the unprovable negative.
And I say no. They have gone to extreme lengths to make their case and lost – ad nauseam. And, frankly, the Democrats are not that competent. If the election had been stolen, they would have proven it by now. I remain open-minded, but in the absence of strong, credible new evidence, the onus is on them to support their claims and I shall dismiss them until such time.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You can’t claim the high ground when you won’t look at the evidence. How about, just for kicks, watch the video I posted above as evidence. Now its on YOU. Or, you can cross your arms, turn your back, and continue to call us crazy. We’re used to it.
If it makes you feel better, I’ll watch your video and report back.
—————-
However, I would reiterate my underpinning issue: Suppose that you had a friend who was convinced that Mole People were running the world. Convinced. And she brought you ‘proof’ that, upon review, turned out to be nonsense.
Each day, for years, she comes to you, raving about her latest proof, her latest investigation, her latest theory. And each time, demanding you watch her hour-long youtube videos full of half-baked theory and insinuation and podcasts and read dubious reporting by blogs with absurd names like Stand Up for America. Each time, she demands you go digging to disprove her claims – shifting the burden from herself to prove [thing] to you to DISprove it. And it’s never satisfactory to her – she accepts the truths of the claims FAR easier than the debunking.
Do you eventually grow weary of this pursuit? Do you eventually decide that your friend is simply grasping at straws and demanding you spend an inordinate amount of time knocking down example after example of motivated reasoning? Do think that if she had proof – real proof – that she would have made her case by now or found some way of getting that real proof into public eye by now? Why, you think, should I have to keep playing this game?
And when your friend accuses you of ignoring the evidence because you won’t look at her 24,601st theory, what do you say to her?
Odd.. why was there a dog logged into my computer?
Well, if you’re Trump or one of his sycophants, you say: “Contribute now to undo this disastrous attack.”
If you have functioning brain cells, it didn’t take you 24,601 theories. You probably tuned her out at around #5 … maybe 6.
I disagree with your argument a bit here.
First, there was evidence linked to the original claims of “something stinks here” that should be investigated. That evidence needed to be investigated. Not merely dismissed as many were in the beginning.
Second, it is not that hard to disprove all these accusations or claims. Not for those closest to the situation. Of course it is impossible for us to prove, unless there is factual documentation we could access and then post here. But that would indeed take some time, real serious time. So not impossible but very time consuming.
I read how all these claims have been debunked. Yet those stories rarely ever carry real evidence, just statements by officials. Now and then I have seen some explanations in more detail. Some make sense and others don’t.
One of my favorites, from Georgia, was that the accusation was of fraudulent ballots being counted. So the Sec of State ordered a “recount of the ballots” and then declared everything was OK because they got the same answer. I was dumbstruck how the Dems and MSM latched on to that a proving the claims were “debunked”.. Well guess what? If you count the same fraudulent ballots again you will get the same answer………. every time. It wasn’t until later they claimed they addressed the issue of the 5 people counting boxes that were under the tables after they sent everyone else home.
Now, get ready for this ……… I believe a large part of the problem right now, as in today, is not that people are unwilling to accept truth. It is that their sources of information are not always truthful. I lay some serious blame here at the feet of “conservative” media outlets, including but not limited to Fox. They were willing to push the anomalies hard until after the Jan 6th riot. Then when information started coming in later that might address many of the anomalies, they did not report on them with the same vigor, if at all. Instead they just kind of stopped talking about the election fraud issue. So if you believed what you were told and then your source goes dark, combined with the censorship by bit tech, what are you going to do? You going to change your mind just because? I doubt you would and I know many, many, many who have not.
Historically the right has been far better at changing their minds when presented with solid evidence. Now it has gone on so long I am not sure it could be reversed.
Some of you may remember a couple years ago, I mentioned a good friend that owned three McDonalds franchises. They raised minimum wages, costs of good sold, etc. When you own a McDonalds franchise, you are not supposed to have prices higher than competing franchises and McDonalds controls this closely.. So, he decided to automate where he could. He did and the initial results, once the learning curve was over, that the efficiency level increased with minimal mistakes and he was able to layoff a combined 11 employees and their associated costs. Now, with the advent of Covid, and people calling in orders ahead of time, he automated his drive through line. So instead of driving up and ordering, they call ahead of time, supplied with a license number on the car, there is a specific lane that the car drives up and the license plate is scanned the same way a toll road scans plates, matched with a to go order and a machine zips the order to the car. Now he operates with a minimal staff. Most ordering on the inside is done through kiosks. The customer comes in places his order through the kiosk and then waits for it to be set on the counter. The soft drinks and teas and coffee are tied to separate machines and the customer walks over, punches in his order number and the appropriate cup drops out and the customer then fills his own drinks.
He told me just awhile ago, that the cost savings in employees was running around 18%. He also said with far fewer staff to operate, there are fewer arguments and fewer absences. So he has netted 18% to his bottom line with no price increases. Automation is coming……to a restaurant near you.
Fun Fact:
A T. rex is believed to have consumed approximately 40,000 calories per day. On average, of course – some days it would eat more and then go without on others.
This amounts to approximately one-half of one adult or one ten-year-old child per day.
In New York, there are approximately 115,000 births per year, which means it could support a population of approximately 350 tyrannosaurs. However, this ignores immigration – and more, importantly, emmigration, which would probably increase substantially in this scenario.
An average McDonald’s, however, serves about 1,250 burgers per day at about 600,000 calories total. This means that each McDonald’s could, on average, support about 15 tyrannosaurs each. Approximately 80 hamburgers.
So, if you live in New York and you see a T. rex, don’t worry. You don’t have to choose a friend to sacrifice; just order 80 burgers instead.
And then, if the T. rex goes for your friend, anyway, well, hey, you have 80 burgers.
Yes, but do they have pickles……
“Automation is coming……to a restaurant near you.”
And more unemployed … which will lead to less people buying what is produced … leading to lower and lower wages/keeping up with the cost of living … which is the inevitability of capitalism and end of empire. 🙂
So what to do with the 3,500,000 new guests who just arrived?
Well, I do have a plethora of velociraptors…..
You wish you were no longer a capitalist economy, but that won’t happen so you build more private jails to make more profits over people … sooner or later it bursts and down goes empire. “Down goes empire.”
Setting aside the obvious nonsense of the scale of your numbers, the answer is simple: you do nothing. They are free human being who are free to pursue life liberty and happiness where and how they may.
That you would choose to hoard the wealth and resources of your claimed territory in order to deny it to others is a moral evil.
There, but for the grace of god, go you. You, who had the fortune to be born on the right side of an imaginary line, so you get the benefits of unfathomable fortune, the likes of which these people can only dream of. Yet they are criminals to be treated as pawns for having the audacity to pursue a better life?
Freedom for me, but not for thee, indeed.
Y’aaaarrrrggg!
Charlie, for you…
Or the alternative the company owners worked out to having the Pinkertons gun down the Union workers on the front porch.
Yes, the snowflakes had to hire someone. Isn’t that the ONLY way they’ll fight?
Thank you, Canine Weapon. In the words of the immortal Borat: “I like.”
You know, I wouldn’t have minded the knucklehead revolution if it had come from the left and they won. 🙂
I’m curious, did the FBI use the GPS coordinates from Mike Lindel’s phone to locate him? But we were told that phones location data was not accurate enough to place people at ballot drop boxes.
Fascism is the amalgamation of power between teh state and industry. In German the industrialists, the media giants of THEIR day backed Hitler to bring about order and stop the rise of Bolshevism. .
They were sure they could control him. Well, that did not happen. He devised a very profitable partnership arrangement with them which they loved. Within months the rest of society was onboard. Order out of chaos is how it works. Who is pushing taht line now.
Now Matt may well call Trump “authoritarian” but he has no clue what totalitarianism is. I really, really think he should consult a few dictionaries on the subject. My High School history teacher made sure we understood in in 11th and 12th grade. Matt’s didn’t, it’s obvious.
You could claim Trump is authoritarian though a TR populist is far more like it. Wm. Jennings Bryan would have been an authoritarian since he demanded implementation of radical change. pretty much by any means necessary. Trump never did, he tried to move back from the edge of the cliff. Do-Do in the White House is driving us over.
The mantra, “by any means necessary” is the true hallmark of authoritarians and totalitarians since they do not respect the system or its mechanics. That’s usually because they know they cannot sell it to the general population. . Trump said from day 1 that he would prefer the congress to earn their salary but McConnell and that pip squeak in the house, Ryan wouldn’t budge. That’s where the Executive orders came from.
23,000 people wrote the producers of “Peppa Pig” to demand that they include gay characters. Something like 6,000,000 worldwide, watch the cartoon. Guess who won?
Well, time to go have Tucker tell me what to think! But at least I am not a Nazi like Matt and the one whose name I won’t mention. Sieg Heil baby!
No reason to call anyone around here a Nazi.
If you call for setting mines on the border to kill people, I’m telling you that you sound like a Nazi. If you say you still hold WWII against present day Germans, I’m telling you that you sound like a Nazi. If you say stupid Nazi shit, I’m telling you that you sound like a Nazi. We don’t like Nazi’s or anyone who sounds like one on Pluto, gals and pals. Same goes for those who sound like fascists. Sucks to be fair, I know.
Trynosky: tongue in cheek, “tell the other guys!”
Seriously, YOU see the evil in using that word. Be it Fascist or Nazi they do not. So as the old man might have said, “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander”.
“Well, time to go have Tucker tell me what to think!”
And here I thought your mind was too stilted to actually think. You are, after all, ‘ANECDOTE MAN!”
I’d like to offer you an opportunity to walk this one back.
“The mantra, “by any means necessary” is the true hallmark of authoritarians and totalitarians since they do not respect the system or its mechanics. That’s usually because they know they cannot sell it to the general population.”
Baloney. When the system or its mechanics oppress people (think Malcolm X here) what the hell else can they do. Appeal to someone with YOUR morals? No thanks (I speak for them). By any means necessary is a warning shot. It suggest YOU don’t get to play the victim (for being the oppressor).
OK SUFA. The Dread Pirate basically laid down a challenge when he said it was not possible to prove anything regarding vote fraud allegations. So I took it on and came up with at least one explanation regarding one of the claims made in Anita’s video this morning. That of the boxes under tables in the Georgia election.
Now keep in mind this was written in December, 2020. Note the claim that Mr. Trump’s attorneys saw the same video but only retold the story based on the cut version. That would go to deliberate manipulation of evidence and would I think qualify for some sanctions.
https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-vote-counting-video-shows-235240082.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I remember hearing this explanation but still have questions. Why was there a curtain around the table? Any boxes stored there could easily have been overlooked. Why did the poll workers not stop until poll watchers could be notified and return?
Maybe you guys our right after all. The boxes under the table. The election was stolen. Where’s the real president? Wait a minutes, Q claims Trump is still the president. I’m so confused.
That box under the table (which was originally presented as a suitcase or briefcase by Nosferatu (Giuliani) has been debunked 10,000 x’s already but you cling to it. The election was stolen. Your boy lost because 81,000,000 people had enough of his stupidity.
It is, again, Russell’s Teapot.
They demand you prove the negative. That is, you DISprove their theory.
Proving there was no fraud is quite impossible. Firstly, because, of course there was some. But more saliently because we have no means by which to examine the full details of every allegation and every ballot cast.
Prove to me that there is NOT a teapot floating in the orbit of Mars!
No, it is incumbent on THEM to make their case, not you to disprove it. If they want you to believe that the suitcases or boxes or storage bins of fraudulent votes are a real thing, it’s THEIR job to prove it, not yours to DISprove.
They will cling to it because, and I think you know this, that is what they WANT to believe. And even if, by some miracle, you convinced them that this example is wrong, they will simply shift seamlessly to the next claim, the next theory, the next youtube video, the next podcast, the next questionably-Russian-propoganda microblog report. The form and manner of the fraud is wholly irrelevant. Suitcases, hacks, mules, Mole People.. it makes no difference because they don’t really care about the alleged fraud itself – at the bottom of this, all they care about is proving that their Petty Tyrant really won, that they are the victims and rightful rulers.
Try to convince a religious fundamentalist that their religion is wrong – you will have the same success.
But, key in all this, as ever is the threat that THEY are the victims. And you are negligent if you fail to give them unlimited quantities of your time and effort. It is never THEY who are biased, but only ever YOU who refuses to see the truth that they know, deep in their hearts, must be there. And when you disagree, it is never their motivated reasoning, but your own blindness to the 🆃🆁🆄🆃🅷.
Question: Can you explain the fairness in how one vote gets tallied onto both candidates totals?
I can’t even explain what that question means….
Its called weighted race something something where values are given to votes to speed the counting process. One vote gets Biden 65% value and Trump gets 35% value. Its explained in the video.
Weighted voting, or proportional voting, can exist in a system wherein you would be given “one vote” to allocate to the available candidates as you wish. Rather than being forced to vote all-or-nothing, you could choose to split your vote between or amongst candidates as you wish.
I am unaware of this kind of system being implemented in America, though there is nothing intrinsically “unfair” or “unethical” about this manner of voting in and of itself.
Perhaps you are referring to something different? I profess that I do not know.
That said, as I mentioned elsewhere, I can’t find your video link – would you be kind enough to re-share it?
You keep using the petty tyrant thing. I want to know specific incidents of when Trump was tyrannical.
With respect to your prove it claim, it is unlikely that a single person can see enough fraud to turn the election. Many of the cases brought were tossed out because of this. One must look at the entirety of the claims and then actually look at the data (votes and machines) and interview the workers. Look at the effort put into the 2000 mules claim. That took multiple people and custom software plus money to buy the data. Even with that you and the powers that be just simply dismiss the results without a proper investigation. It would be easy for police to put names to the phones, interview the people, verify that the centers where the mules got the ballots and again interview the people.
Did you see the Project Veritas video of the woman asking for $55,000 to deliver 5000 ballots? Veritas also had video of a guy in Minnesota collecting 100’s if ballots, steaming them open and replacing the ballot. This was in Omar’s district and involved the Somali community. Again nothing happened to him. Direct proof of large scale fraud, but you still deny it.
If this election was so free of fraud, then open the books. What are they hiding?
Yeah, the lady with the 5k votes was in the video I posted too.
We can make it simpler for them. They claim no widespread fraud. Ok, lets put 4 states under the microscope, and even then, just examine the votes that were counted overnight. Had it not been for 4 drops from those 4 states Trump wins.
Allow me to stop you there. James O’Keefe of Veritas is a well-established liar and fraudster who has been caught, multiple times, creating misleading to outright bullshit fake videos. In particular, he has a well-established record of selective and manipulative editing. That you would take him seriously is baffling to me.
Sorry, you are just blowing it off as Anita said.
Drops was the term used, and is used, when votes are entered into the total counts. These “drops” occur consistently through the night as batches are counted and then the numbers “dropped” into the system.
So see how your own bias tainted your response?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy
You are getting good at this game, my dear.
I surprise myself. I could get used to this.
Fair play to you, ma’am.
Funny how Veritas has won every libel law suite brought against. I guess the courts can’t spot a liar but the lying MSM media which you parrot can.
They also threw out Veritas’ suit against CNN.
What’s your point?
My point is that your MSM bias is showing. The MSM is far more guilty of selective editing than Veritas and unfortunately it has gotten people killed.
Wrong young Pirate.
The allegations involve potential crimes. As such they need to be investigated. One of the reasons we are in this mess is because of your attitude. Judges who simple dismissed cases placing the burden of proof on those making the accusations when those people could not have the access required to the information which would prove or disprove the allegation.
That was a key problem in the process and was mentioned by various legal experts as something we might need to fix in the future.
To your larger commentary I say SOPHISTRY is not a response to particulars.
Who do you imagine you are speaking to?
I was ancient when your ancestors first set foot upon the New World.
———-
As for the rest, I care not one whit about your government investigating itself. Ostensibly, it should do so by its own rules. But it makes no difference to Antia’s and my conversation. Neither of us control the actions of your government, we may only operate on the information available.
And, with the available information, I find that there is insufficient evidence to lend credence to her theories. I find her reasoning to be motivated and conspiratorial. She asserts an ever-shifting web of claims and proofs, each of which is unprovable (again, by individuals without special access) or demonstrated to be likely false.
She, and her side, have had ample opportunity to find fire behind the smoke. Congress has investigated it. Biased hacks like the “Cyber Ninjas” have done so. Petty Tyrant’s allies have done so. All have failed. When people with access and an interest in finding a particular answer fail to do so, we should consider that strong evidence against the thing.
Ultimately, she is grasping at straws and demanding I carefully consider each straw, one after another after another in an unending chain until she finds one that ‘proves’ what she wants to prove. And I simply do not want to do so.
You are younger than me, that is all that is required.
I have socks older than ye, whippersnapper.
How can I help?
Colonel
Spousal Unit said we should take a picture of the border crossing where we came home the other day and send it to you. We didn’t so I will describe it.. We were having a good chuckle as it was so quiet and almost deserted.
Small shack/hut with ONE guard. Asked us questions about food, then we talked about what kinds of things you can bring back, like crops. Asked him it there were any Covid restrictions and he said: “All I care about is that you are Americans headed home. Welcome back.” We chatted for about 15 minutes before the next car arrived.
I thought that was pretty cool, then I realized the USA is getting a free ride on the Covid issue. Because to get into Canada you have to either pre register with proof of full vaccination (two shots) or identify the location where you will quarantine for ten days after arriving. Failure to be there when they call you or arrive to check is a fine of up to $20,000.00. So you have to be vaccinated or proven Covid free to get into Canada, which means you are pre qualified to get back into the USA. All without suffering the insults for having a Covid vaccination policy for our own citizens.
I believe the Canadians have to be vaccinated to get into the USA as they would have to be to get back home. But haven’t checked it out.
None of the chaos you suffer to the south. Also, I know we have listening devices on the border up here, to pick up any illegal crossings between the check points. No just walking in without someone knowing. I assume they have the same tech down your way?
We have GSR (ground surveillance radar) in some areas, tremor detectors in other areas, IR drones, and, until recently, there was a satellite assigned to us. That has been removed by the Biden Administration because it was very instrumental in finding the “got aways”……. Biden does not want them found.
In my area, our best assets are the ranchers and their cowboys. They are 1800’s tough and well armed. They are also armed with NVG, courtesy of the Texas Guard. We have also told them that protecting their property is their affair whatever it takes….no questions asked. It seems to be working quite well and has acted like a living fence. We have noticed that the illegals are channeling into specific areas to avoid being shot. We have not eliminated the got aways as yet but they have been cut down significantly. And are moving south to the main areas of Eagle Pass and Laredo.
My area from Del Rio to Presidio has been relatively quiet thanks to the ranchers taking control. Some would call this vigilante Justice but you have a right to protect your property in Texas and the use of deadly force is justified in most cases. Once our signs were posted and the respective blue fence posts in place, the word got out to avoid those areas. It seems to be working as the ranchers are reporting fewer thefts, cattle being killed, and break-ins. They take care of their own 1800’s style. When the ranchers find anyone, they are single males dressed in camo. Hardly immigrants looking for work.
In addition, when we find water stations and food drops, we destroy them and that word gets around so those areas are avoided. When we find sanctuaries, we confiscate all their assets for aiding and abetting a criminal enterprise. Don’t have to arrest them, just take their stuff. Eventually they move on.
All of this could be avoided if they just close the border. My biggest concern now, in my area, is the crossing at Del Rio and the Big Bend country. It is very rugged and desolate but because the ranchers are now patrolling their own property, I can send more assets into the rugged areas. Our new cavalry is doing an excellent job as well and can patrol the Bend just like in the days of the 1800’s. I have a slice of that cavalry….50 riders. Everyone can laugh if they want…but it works. The illegals are moving west to Arizona…or South to Eagle Pass….our gunboats run the river Vietnam style …..and we have not had an incident on Lake Amistad in 2 years.
We just play hardball. That is the only way to work it since our government will not. Too much of a payoff to them….just like China.
If you notice, there is an influx back in El Paso now because they are avoiding our area. That and a new cartel has moved into that area.
A good note is that what we are doing in my area is catching on….I understand that they, some of the sheriffs, are wanting to do the same things because it channels the illegals into concentrated areas. Then, we can fly more into Martha’s Vineyard.
I did?
Must have overdone it on grog…
Hey, I thought this was great. Let the elites feel it.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/migrants-arrive-marthas-vineyard-massachusetts-charter-flights-florida/41220505#
Sounds like forced relocation, which is a crime against humanity.
You mean, like the border?
You spelled “imaginary line on a map” wrong.
Quite right, I did…..it is spelled TEXAS BORDER. Sorry for the mistake.
JAC……in purgatory again…an answer to your post.
Anita,
I promised to watch your video, but unfortunately, this threat had grown unruly and I cannot find the link. Would you be kind enough to re-share it?
https://rumble.com/vdntxf-unmasked-have-we-uncovered-the-truth-about-the-2020-election.html
It got hung up in the meat locker again. Hang on a second
I can’t move that down here to save my life. 11:45am yesterday
Got it, ma’am.
“Unmasked – Have we uncovered the truth about the 2020 election?”
Will revert once I’m done watching it.
Odd.. why was there a dog logged into my computer?
Not only is the dog logged on to your computer but the stores in hold that you thought were being taken by respectable Texans…..is the same dog roaming around the Hammer. perhaps you need to redo your security?
Oh, you cannot blame my raptors either..they do not drink that swill you do. Texas raptors stick to Tequila….the real stuff and not the crap you yankees peddle as “top Shelf”.
You see, due to recent tragic circumstances, that dog was taken in by Mathius.
The other night, Mathius ate something that didn’t agree with him, so now the dog lives aboard the Hammer.
He is a welcome guest, but eats his weight in bacon each day and goes through grog in a way that, generally, dogs do not.
And you wonder how this dog got to your computer…..sigh.
HE DOESN’T EVEN HAVE THUMBS!
Very versatile dog, eh?
Well, he’s utter trash as a guard dog, I’ll say that much.
JAC……paging JAC…….let me out of jail, please…..I do not have to post bond anymore.
JAC, do not let that man out of jail until he’s learned his lesson!
Sorry, but by your own rules…….there is no more bond, you have to let me out.
By the way, on a recent visit in the Mexico State of Guanajuato, while visiting El Centro in San Miguel, I ran into the Churro Man…he inquired about you and I told him you were still being your obstinate old self….he just smiled, handed me a delicious chirro and walked off into the sunset.
chirro? What the hell is that….oh, I have not had my Dr Pepper yet…CHURRO.
I have oft wondered if there is not some back-end toggle that might permit editing of comments after you hit enter.
As ye know, I have a hook for one hand and often find typing accurately difficult.
not to mention yer one jolly me good eye an’ yer one lung lost to a well aimed rapier thrust
Sir Mathius…..I will make a deal with you and your partner in crime…….(although I notice sometimes the Dread Pirate does not agree with you)..
When you get the rest of the world to claim imaginary lines and have complete and open borders…..I am on board. Deal?
I do not care for the laws of man. I follow only the laws of the sea, and she does abide borders.
Yet she is contained wholly within them.
She goes where she will. Do not temp her.
Ohhhhhhhhhh burrrrnnn! Good job, Colonel!! You sent busses full from Del Rio to the VP’s house at the Naval Observatory. Love it.
Is cruelty the point?
These are human beings, yet you persist in reveling when they are treated as pawns.
No, the POINT is if She wants them she can feed them. I have seen the video of these folks getting off the bus. Pretty well cared for pawns in my book.
But pawns nonetheless.
At least they admit it … for now. The idea that people are pawns fits their ideology and morality perfectly … which also explains the marriage between Trump and Christians … 🙂
Yes, they became pawns when they crossed “your imaginary line” and stepped onto the chess board. They are willing pawns who know they are violating the laws of a sovereign country. Immigrants are welcome here provided they do so legally.
So, Washington says the borders are secure….we are sending them thousands to show they are telling more lies than Trump. I revel in the saying, this morning, of one of the Martha Vinyard inhabitants, someone named Spike Lee….they do not need to be here. Actress Meg Ryan, a long term advocate of letting illegals enter, also this morning said….”They do not belong here”
I bet everyone of them are using illegal labor for their yards, swimming pools, and house servants…hypocrisy anyone?
NIMBY notwithstanding, I fail to understand why these particular humans are not entitled to full human rights simply by virtue of being born on the wrong side of YOUR imaginary line.
Are not the Ds also using these outlaws as political pawns? They have a stated objective of importing new voters.
That well may be.
But the Democrats are opting to NOT trample on these people’s rights as free human beings. Whether they do so in contravention of their own laws* is no business of a pirate.
Consider an analogy: slavery. Slavery is legally permitted in [country]. Party A says no, “we must uphold the law, so they stay slaves.” Party B says “fuck the law” and proceeds to if not free the slaves, then turn a willfully blind eye while they escape. Now, Mathius might waffle a bit more** about the “rule of law” and the need to change the laws, not just ignore them, but I don’t concern myself with such things. To me, the question is much simpler. If slavery is wrong, then it is wrong. Those who permit, facilitate, and engage in slavery are wrong. Those who refuse to engage in slavery and/or facility their liberation are right.
Now, I’ll decline to go so far as to EQUATE slavery and the US’s immigration policy. But they are certainly gradients of the same evil. A human, by dint of uncontrollable circumstances of his or her birth has his or her rights abrogated. This is wrong. It is that simple.
The Democrats can ALSO be wrong for violating their own laws. But, again, that is no matter to me.
* they are
** Or he would if he were still with us.
Not MY imaginary line, sir. I did not draw these lines but I have to live with them…as do you. Even when you go to Mexico, you still have to have a passport and fill out visa forms.
They are NOT ENTITLED to anything but that is another argument for later (one which you and I have already had) We see things differently. But you claim to be law abiding but yet you wish to practice selective enforcement.
Like hell I do.
And I have some 9-pounders here for anyone who thinks otherwise.
They are ENTITLED to not have you interfere with their rights as free human beings.
That includes not having you wild the power of your “government” to infringe on their rights as free human beings.
I make no such claim. The only law I follow is the law of the sea.
Perhaps you have confused me with another?
‘ow daft o’ me, ye scurvy gentleman o’ fortune. I did forget whom I been blabberin’ to an’ not realizin’ the law o’ the sea. Please accept me apologies. I forgot that there, from time to time, ye do imprison sir mathius an’ do not let ‘im out much. I now understand yer position as it pertains to the laws o’ the sea.
I also remember the 9 pounder brass wound canon I gifted to ye. Not to mention the laser guided rapto-sharks.
Point of Order
These ILLEGAL ALIENS were not found on the Sea, where your laws apply.
They were found on land, where out laws apply.
Well, he did try to sail up the Rio Grande but his masts did not fit under the bridge at Brownsville.
Guys! Try to keep up. Mathius warned of his only being around temporarily. Now he gets to hide behind Dread so he doesn’t have to answer for things like selective enforcement.
I think you may be a bit behind on current events… Mathius may not be “hiding.”
I have to admit that I LOVE they were sent to Martha’s Vineyard and that the population there is having hissy fits … now, my solution would be to build them housing on the Vineyard and provide them with whatever they need until they can adopt to their new country. I have ZERO problem with this.
Perhaps one of the biggest piles of bulldookey ever written by a supposed expert.
https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/3644547-the-wests-water-crisis-is-worse-than-you-think/
Can anyone else spot the glaring lie in this piece? And no, it is not the claim of global warming existing. It is more insidious.
Ah, the good old tragedy of the commons strikes again.
What be yer point?
Dread Pirate
My point is that IF everything the author, and others, claim about global warming is true, and IF his claims about the continued worsening of the drought are true then all the states he mentioned could go 100% green tomorrow and nothing in the climate would change. The USA could go 100% green tomorrow and nothing would change.
The warming is cooked into the books for decades based on their own science. So either their science is BS or this guy is full of it himself.
I see a number of problems. 40% of the power from Hoover Dam goes to Nevada and Arizona split almost equally. The remainder goes to CA. This is green energy. For these states, the current mix of clean energy including nuclear and hydro is AZ, CA, CO, NM: 33.6%, 18.8%, 13.4%, 15.2% respectively. I do not see where CA has such bragging rights to clean energy. I also do not like CA bullying the other states to follow their lunatic ideas on how to run their states.
Building more green energy generation will not significantly impact the “AGW” situation thus will not return water flows to previous highs. The impact of CO2 reduction is quite minor not to mention it will take years to have an impact.
The author does not mention that he SW has been having record high water flows in their rivers. It is the snow in Colorado that is short.
The answer is to reduce the flow of water to CA. CA can build min-nukes to power desalination plants thus replacing the lost water with sea water. I don’t think they will drain the Pacific.
In a side note, ten years ago I suggested CA cover the central canal with solar panels to not only shade the water and reduce evaporation losses but to generate the electricity to power the pumps. (The canal runs up hill.) I did suggest this to my members of the legislature. Finally, CA is building a test case to see if it works. It would be much faster to fly to India and look at their installation.
We could also build more reservoirs in NorCal, plus raise and dredge the ones we have to increase capacity. This however is too logical and will not be done. Another solution is to stop sending so much of our NorCal water into the ocean.
It has also been proposed to build an undersea water pipeline from the rivers that flow directly into the ocean north of SF. The pipeline would be seasonal and capture the high flows of water during the spring. The pipe would enter the delta via the Golden Gate and dump directly into the central canal thus saving the water in the NorCal reservoirs for the dry season. No digging would be required.
“big win for America.” Biden Blue! No rail strike. America wins … again! Boy, that sleepy Joe is getting things done, ain’t he? 🙂
Yes, avoiding the strike is a good thing. I won’t get into the whole govt and railroad issue but just recognize that preventing it was good for America. Especially at this point in time. If you want to give Biden credit for that then fine by me.
I do find it ironic that just yesterday you were complaining about how the rail workers were being treated and that the Govt. was basically siding with the Railroad companies. So I am a little confused by your public celebration.
I was being sarcastic giving Biden credit for anything more than walking zombie brain deficiency. Just clowning around, JAC. He’s lucky they accepted the deal thought. That would’ve been their Abortion issue.
John Galt is as much a fantasy as capitalism is good …
And Ayn Rand couldn’t die soon enough … shame she had to use social security and medicare though …
Pay attention capitalist pigs … 🙂
Rich people looting funds intended for needy people? I’m shocked, shocked, I say!
Republicans: Big Gov’ment can’t work!!1!!
Also Republicans: Here, we’ll prove it!
———–
Preemptively: get out of here with your whataboutism!
“Rich people looting funds intended for needy people? I’m shocked, shocked, I say!”
The always was, always will be, under capitalism … the inevitability is a revolution that will likely be crushed by morons thinking they’re serving their country, yet only serving their masters. They, too, will be left out in the cold … unless, of course, they kill their masters. 🙂 Wow, it all worked out in the end.
You misunderstand me, I think.
Capitalism, communism, socialism, anarchy, whatever economic system they use on the planet SKT inhabits… it makes no difference.
Sociopaths are going to sociopath*.
There are only two ways** to become a billionaire: have billionaire parents, or engage in a vicious sociopathic effort to “win” at capitalism by relentlessly driving value for other capitalists at the expense of the proletariat.
See, the problem ISN’T capitalism.
The problem is that there is a certain type of person who feels compelled to “win” at whatever game there is to play, who gauges his own success relative to others, and who cares nothing for the harm he does along the way.
In ANY system, this person will find ways to drive value for themselves and deny value for others. And they will care nothing for the harmful externalities they create along the way.
If you eliminated “money,” this person would find a way to hoard food and deny it to the hungry. If you guaranteed food, this person would hoard housing and deny it to the homeless. If you guaranteed housing, they would do the same for medical.
(Somehow) guarantee all basic (Maslow level 1) needs, they’ll find a way to deny non-basic needs. Because they do not care about others, they care about “winning” and that is a comparison verse others. And the way to “win” when you evaluate success on a relative basis like this is to lift yourself up… and to push others down.
Capitalism need not be evil.. at least, not intrinsically. It is the corrupting influence of evil men* who myopically pursue their own success over all else that causes harm. The same harm they would cause in ANY system.
It is undeniable that capitalism has been an unbelievably successful engine of progress. You would, I think, throw out the baby with the bathwater.
The answer is not to abandon capitalism. The answer is to abandon**** those who would turn it toward evil ends.
——————————————–
* used here as a verb. Deal with it.
** technically, I suppose it’s POSSIBLE to inherit $999mm and let the investments carry you over the $1b threshold, but that’s an edge case.
*** and the oft-overlooked evil women.
**** for the avoidance of doubt, by “abandon,” I mean “guillotine.” *****
***** Non-violently, of course. I would never advocate for violence against the non-violent… but, well, you know, if you DID find yourself in a literal guillotining mood, well.. I may not join you… but that doesn’t mean I won’t grab a bucket of popcorn and watch either.
This was a very lengthy expose filled with BullDookey.
Three ways to acquire wealth.
Inherit it.
Steal it.
Earn it.
A billion or a million it makes not difference. And if you earn part and steal part you are still a thief.
It just chaps my backside how you and others generalize and stereotype people with money while howling about others who do the same about people without money. Should I claim that all poor people are simply lazy?
Creating jobs and hiring others is always some kind of oppression with you types. No business can survive fairly unless it creates value for its customers. No value, no profit, no company, no damn jobs.
You are essentially, not you are outright, claiming that survival is immoral because it requires winning at the game of life.
The one thing you do get right is that IMMORAL people will be immoral no matter what system is employed, or even if no system is employed.
Interesting, JAC….I read it completely different. Well not completely different but I did come away with a different point of view.
This my brother from another mother is the EGREGIOUS part of the whole thing. It is the basis for everything which follows. Which makes the more poignant statements rotten at their foundation, no matter how good they sound.
“There are only two ways** to become a billionaire: have billionaire parents, or engage in a vicious sociopathic effort to “win” at capitalism by relentlessly driving value for other capitalists at the expense of the proletariat.”
Yeah, I get it but I think I understood where he was coming from…given the fact that he is a Pirate….but, as you said, there are only three ways to become rich…Inherit it, steal it, earn it. The problem with some on the left, as I see it, is that they seem to think that if you play the capitalist game, then you are doing it on the backs of the people….(the you didn’t build that scenario). Not all capitalists are evil. As a matter of record very few of them are evil. Business is business. But you can still win by playing fair and you cannot win by being naive and assuming that the leeches are not out there. They are out there and waiting in the shadows.
Capitalism can prosper easily but you cannot get the Charlie’s out of the mantra of it is evil if you make a profit. He looks at it as if you make a large profit and do not share it then you are evil. People are who they are. What is evil is a government taking it from you. Companies will not survive without people and playing fair….but fair is not something for nothing.
I will try to make as much money as I can. I will do it legally and I will do it honestly. There is nothing wrong with winning nor is there anything wrong with winning big….as long as it is honest….and legal. Playing hard ball is part of the game. If people do not like the way I run my business they know where the door is….If I do not pay enough, they will leave. It is not easy to be in business but it is rewarding.
Learned this sometime in the past:
Do not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Do not covet thy neighbors possessions.
Do not steal.
Treat others as you would be treated.
An old Amish saying:
“I will not cheat thee, but I may out wit thee.”
“I will not cheat thee, but I may out wit thee.”
And when THEE sets the rules, it’s a lot easier to be witty.
I have never understood why people are so jealous of the wealthy and demand that government confiscate their wealth. I have no problem with wealth as long as it is made honestly and the appropriate taxes are paid.
In the old world, estates, titles, and wealth were inherited by the oldest son thus the aristocracy was maintained. In the new world we divide estates equally among the children. This dilutes the wealth and thus the power of the later generations. There is an old saying: rags to riches in three generations and back in the next three. The children of the entrepreneur often don’t have the drive to maintain the business. The grandchildren just squander the money having no sense of how hard the patriarch worked to amass it.
In the US, people often move from poverty to middle class within a couple of decades if they work hard, are frugal and invest wisely. Some even move further up. However, it is just as easy to move down the scale and many do staying in the rich class for only a decade or two. Class wise, we are a very mobile society.
It is fruitless to covet thy neighbor’s wealth. The time is better spent on improving yourself and your own finances.
The assumption that the working class covets wealth is pathetic and just another page in the myth of the American Dream. Again, when the wealthy set the rules of the game, it’s a lot easier to be “successful.”
As much as I loathe agreeing with a socialist, he is, of course, completely correct.
The “American right” has a nasty tendency to perceive this complaint by the “American left” as jealousy and covetousness. It is not. Agree or disagree* with their methods, but their goal is not to make themselves rich, or punish the rich, but to raise up the poor. The left would have no objection to the existence of the super-rich if there were no accompanying poverty.**
* Disagree
** And, also, if they weren’t actively destroying the ecosystem
I’ll share with you something Mathius well knows: HOLY SHIT IS THE GAME RIGGED. It is rigged sooo much more than you can fathom. You have no IDEA the shenanigans that the ultra-wealthy (and their enablers) get up to, the advantages and access and opportunities they have that you, the plebs, do not.
“Capitalism can prosper easily but you cannot get the Charlie’s out of the mantra of it is evil if you make a profit. He looks at it as if you make a large profit and do not share it then you are evil. People are who they are. What is evil is a government taking it from you. Companies will not survive without people and playing fair….but fair is not something for nothing.”
Bad assumption, Colonel. Bad generalization too. I don’t mind people making profit. I mind how they can OWN a government (and they do). I mind how legislation can be written by corporate lawyers and then rubber stamped by the puppets (Congress). I mind how their wealth is protected in the form of corporations (they can claim bankruptcy by GWB made sure people can’t). I mind the hording of wealth while others suffer the inevitability of greed (which capitalism fosters like nothing else). We have reached the inevitability of capitalism. Try and watch the Thursday Night NFL game on a free channel tonight. Good luck with that.
The other thing: you may do it honestly, but most don’t. Did you see the Bret Favre, Mississippi stealing from the poor to give to the rich scam that was exposed?
Charlie, we are a lot closer than you think. I agree about owning government. I do not like lobbyists. I think they should outlawed. I do not like the way money owns government. But that is not capitalism. Capitalism may be the method used like a shovel is used to dig in the ground but that does not make capitalism bad…..just bad people that use it.
I do not like the bankruptcy laws either….but that is not what capitalism produces. It is what bad people produce but you do not throw the baby out with the bath water.
I do not like the Favre incident either. I think it sucks. It was wrong and still is wrong but that is not a capitalist view nor product. It is bad people. See? We agree on a lot.
Where you and I disagree….is on one major issue. I see nothing wrong with establishing wealth and hoarding wealth to pass on to family. I see everything wrong with taking it from people who earned it with risk and hard work. You call it greed. I do not call it greed if I earned it legally and honestly. There is suffering all over the world but to use a Robin Hood approach to “rob” success is flat out wrong…….just as wrong as using bankruptcy to avoid debt.
I look at it the same way as a gun. Take a fully automatic weapon and place it on a table. Don’t touch it and see how many people that weapon kills. It is a tool, nothing more, to be used appropriately. Capitalism is a system just like a weapon. When used properly, it is the best system out there. But bad people use it just as bad people will use a weapon.
I do not know of a way to eliminate elitism, do you? You will always have an elitist class….whoever makes the rules and enforces those rules becomes the elitists…..would you agree with that? Can you name a government that does not create an elitist faction? Can you name a government whose elite do not control the money? I posit that in a capitalist system, the people have a better chance of moving up….if not, why are they charging our borders. I sure don’t see them going to Europe….
Don’t destroy the system….destroy the people that use the system wrongly…..you do not like the “whataboutism”…..but if Trump is a petty tyrant, what is Biden? I do not see any difference….they both lie incessantly. They have their pet projects….I do not see the difference. They sell out to their interests…..I do not see a difference.
We need better people….not systems.
JAC….in jail once again…an answer to Charlie….
Yarr know, dread gentleman o’ fortune, ye can, when ye wish, speak a precise an’ clearrr language. Ye do amaze me with yer synopsis. Ye be even smart at times. I even agree with yer synopsis almost to a “t”. Very insightful an’ spot on. I be amazed….nay….intrigued be a better word. Fer a gentleman o’ fortune, I would say ye be exceptional. Now, if we can get ye to say y’all an’ wearrr a proper stetson (throw away the official *CAPTAIN* Jack Sparrow) there may be ‘ope fer ye.
I felt that I was quite clear.
But allow me to try again.
You cannot be a billionaire without being a sociopath.
Even if you drive a billion dollars worth of “value” (however defined), and fairly, rightly, EARN $1b, you still cannot be a billionaire without being a sociopath.
The reason for this is simple: $1b is sooo far beyond the wildest credible NEEDS of any human being, that to hoard such unimaginable wealth for your own benefit while others go hungry, homeless, and otherwise desperate – and while it is entirely within your power to address – can only be an act of inhuman depravity.
Imagine, sir, if you were given essentially unlimited wealth. Would you NOT use it to house the homeless, clothe the naked, care for the infirm?
The thing is – this happens all the time. And these people do not become billionaires. The only people who DO become billionaires are those who could take (and take advantage of) and never to give.
Surely Jeff Bezos could pay his workers better. Give them rest breaks and better working conditions, etc. He could even give them a share in the ownership of the company. Maybe his wealth would go from $151 billion to a $100 billion? Even if it were a paltry $1b, would this hurt him in the least? Would he lose ANYTHING other than pride? But what a difference it would make in his employees’ lives, and the lives of their families. Yet he doesn’t because he cares not one whit for them – only for himself
————
To be clear, as a pirate, I do not advocate for laws to strip this wealth from them, guillotine them, put their heads on pikes, and emulsify the rest of their corpses for fertilizer. But I cannot speak for the opinions of any other parties.
If I can get my answer to Charlie out of jail……I think it would answer your post.
Just to be a bit clearer for those in the back: If you hoard unfathomable wealth rather than use it to do good for your fellow man*, you are a bad person.
* And woman
Part I. “The problem is that there is a certain type of person who feels compelled to “win” at whatever game there is to play, who gauges his own success relative to others, and who cares nothing for the harm he does along the way.
In ANY system, this person will find ways to drive value for themselves and deny value for others. And they will care nothing for the harmful externalities they create along the way.”
Why in some systems of government (social democracies, etc.) does universal healthcare and free college coexist with millionaires and billionaires? Why doesn’t it happen in capitalist societies? Eventually, it’ll die off in social democracies as well, but in the meantime, the wealth gap in the US has created a corporate class of government that is FILLED with shareholders (those persons you mentioned who seek to win) … and with less and less regulation (something the phony Libertarians claim they want–such bullshit) so the levers of power are now in their hands and there’s absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Meanwhile, the so-called middle class (actually working class) suffers and diminishes by the day, entering the poverty class and keeping the “dream” alive requires words like “theft” and “steal” … pathetic.
Colonel,
Spousal Unit Leader came up with a new slogan while on our trip Up North. It was after some discussion with a Canadian about the state our STATE (UNION) is in regarding Govt. agencies and politicians.
“Do not trust and then verify”.
I like it….. but the period goes inside the quotation mark.
Down here you Pirate………………….
. Agree or disagree* with their methods, but their goal is not to make themselves rich, or punish the rich, but to raise up the poor.
Have you really read this or is grog rummaging around in your brain?
WOW….you sure you did not grow up in the 60’s?
Of course, I have. I have also tried a bizarre practice called LISTENING TO THEM. There are, of course, a vocal minority who think this way – as in any such group, there is a vocal crazy minority.
But this is not the common thread. The common thread, again, is a well-intentioned desire to raise up the poor, not tear down the wealthy.
The notion that they exist on some kind of grievance fundament to hating wealth is pure anti-socialist propaganda. Rather than argue dry economic theory or esoteric notions of rights and fairness, people would rather simply deploy the ad hominem attack line of “you’re just jealous.”
Almost certainly.
Much better than that worm-infested swill you drink! Y’aargh!
I am as ancient as the sea. You know this.
Mathius, however, might be a ’60’s era hippy who was born in the wrong decade.
The notion that they exist on some kind of grievance fundament to hating wealth is pure anti-socialist propaganda. Rather than argue dry economic theory or esoteric notions of rights and fairness, people would rather simply deploy the ad hominem attack line of “you’re just jealous.”
NOW…this I will buy.
You were quite clear…I said so and complimented you on it.
But you are going to have to explain this more thoroughly, if you can, sir.
Sociopath: a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Are you seriously going to measure success….great wealth…and wanting to keep it a personality disorder? an extreme anti-social attitude? and, especially, a lack of conscience because they, or whomever, sees the world differently than you?
I find this statement $1b is sooo far beyond the wildest credible NEEDS of any human being, to be obnoxious. Who are YOU to make this determination? You do not get to decide this. If this is your….”YOUR” opinion, then I can accept that as your opinion but you paint with a broad brush, my friend. If Bezos chooses to live this way, more power to him. It is his choice and you actually have no right to criticize him nor his decisions.
If he wants to pay more to his employees…..then he can do so. Do I think that he should? That is not for me to say…it is none of my business. IS it human depravity to not deplete his wealth if HE does not want to do it? No, it is not. Should he? It would be nice to do such things if he chooses to do so. Now, I did not see in your retort that anything should be taken from him but you in as much, said so. But you do not have a right to say….you have earned enough money and if you do not give it away to others, you are a depraved human being.
—————————–
So, what is enough? how do you define enough? and what if he did give a billion to charities? Your theory of, if I make 10 billion and only need one billion, therefore, I owe it to society to give and extra two or three billions is ludicrous at best. It is still an individual choice….he has to live with himself.
I wonder, since you used Jeff Bezos as an example, how many billionaires are out there that support charities and such. You are in the business of investments or you work closely in a business where value means everything. You understand making dividend payments and such to investors. You understand what comprises 401s and such and it takes huge profits to do so. I wonder why you think the way you do, sometimes.
But, you are a Pirate….and you keep Mathius locked up all the time.
“I find this statement $1b is sooo far beyond the wildest credible NEEDS of any human being, to be obnoxious. Who are YOU to make this determination? You do not get to decide this. If this is your….”YOUR” opinion, then I can accept that as your opinion but you paint with a broad brush, my friend. If Bezos chooses to live this way, more power to him. It is his choice and you actually have no right to criticize him nor his decisions.”
Nonsense. His wealth was and remains dependent on others doing the work … either he shares in profits (since THEY did the work) or he is put in irons, on a cliff, facing cold northeast winds from sea … naked as they day he was born. And if he cries but once, off the cliff he goes. 🙂
Well, spoken like a true socialist dictator.
Perhaps I may be of assistance here. I speak Socialist.
What I think Charlie is trying to say is that he does not believe that the wealth is the product of the billionaire’s work, but rather the product of the labor of the working class.
It is unlikely he begrudges that the billionaire (in at least some cases), drove value – and often even that in excess of any particular laborer. But, rather, that he opines that the system is rigged such that the billionaire captures a disproportionate share of the value being created – hoarding it for himself and denying it to those who produced it…. and who, because they produced it, are due it.
You have to understand, there’s a difference in mindset here… socialists believe that the product of one’s labor belongs to the individual that produced it. As such, taking that value constitutes theft. That is, they believe that a person who works is entitled to (substantively) all of the (net) value they create, not just the wage that a company is willing to pay.
Rather, the worker accepts this wage out of “wage slavery” – a condition where, if you do not work, you starve and die. Thus, it is with a gun to the workers’ collective heads that they work for less than they are due while the difference is “stollen” by the owners of capital.
These same owners then use their greater wealth to cement in place the structures which elevate them above the workers and facilitate this theft (or “trickle-up,” if you prefer).
Charlie is saying, I think, that crime on this scale and of this type ought to be punished severely.
The funny part is that you work in the very sector that you complain about. That makes you an enabler. If you worked for Habitat for Humanity or some other operation that practices what they preach, your virtue signaling would be easier to take.
I am a sea captain.
Perhaps you are thinking of Mathius? .
Mathius is – absolutely – an enabler.
And a VERY effective one, at that.
And he should feel bad about it.
And we should all throw tomatoes at his house.
Don’t look at me! I’m just translating Charlie!
But, yes, Mathius would be a total hypocrite if he held an opinion like this while working to enable the billionaire-class. And you’d be 100% right to call him out on it.
But, you know, I’m naught but a humble sea captain… so you’ll have to ask him about it.
You seem to be equating work to physical labor, something I am not sure you know much about. Have you ever dug a ditch, poured cement, framed a building, sided and roofed for money? Most CEOs of major corporations work long and hard hours but the work is more cerebral than physical. If these are self made billionaires such as Bezos and Gates, they spent many years laying the ground work for their empires. Many such people risk their fortunes, homes, marriages, private lives to succeed in business. Many would be billionaires fail but that is the risk they were willing to take. I don’t envy them or begrudge their success. To do so is a waste of my time and efforts.
As for big corporations, billionaires, and unions influencing government, I think we probably all agree. We dislike the money involved. Many of us here have stated our distaste for special tax breaks, subsidies, and favoritism.
Don’t look at me… I’m just translating Socialist into English.
If this is what you took away from what I wrote, one of us is very bad at reading comprehension.
Charlie – as I interpret it – is NOT envious or begrudging of their success.
Nor, for that matter, does he believe that only physical labor counts as work.
Rather, he views – again, as I interpret it – that the worker class produces vastly more value than they receive as wages. When a worker produces $100 of value, but is paid $15, you and I (and Mathius) might view that as “well, that’s what you agreed to” or “if you don’t like it, quit.” But Charlie and fellow leftists would not. They would view that as “the worker should receive $100, but the capitalist class STOLE $85” via their control of the capital and the rigged system.* And they view the “work or starve” dichotomy as coercion rendering any such agreement moot.
That’s not envy. And that’s not begrudging that the CEO contributed (and is due for his contribution) – it’s anger that the system in place attributes an outsized share of the workers’ value to people who didn’t produce it.
You might argue – as you did – that the capitalist class took big risks, put in hard work, etc. And I don’t think even Charlie would deny them the fruits of this. He’s not – again, I don’t think – saying they need to live at the same level as their workers and eat ramen in a hovel. He’s probably ok with the CEO having a good upper-class life as payment for his efforts and risk and, frankly, superior value as a “cerebral” worker. But he doesn’t think that the CEO should be able to “steal” the value of the working class’ labor and give it to himself and other shareholders because of a rigged system and uneven power structures.
————————–
* How one arrives at this math is beyond me. Who is to say what share of “value” is created by any given worker in any given company at any given time? When I work collaboratively with a coworker, am I due a share of their output? If they advise me, are they due a share of mine? If I have an unproductive day or make a mistake at work that causes others to have to do more, should a share of my “value” be attributed to them? Who decides this? Who pays for the building? Is this pro-rata or per capita? If I piss off HR**, do I make less that day because the HR lady had to spend her “value” dealing with me?
** As I often do
As opposed to a capitalist dictator. YOU get to tell workers what they’re worth. Nice system. Have you noticed how the NFL (for a $7 BILLION dollar package with networks and amazon) have now made Thursday Night football an Amazon Prime only televised game? It’s a matter of time, my brother. It all comes apart.
How did I do with my translation? I wouldn’t want to put words in your mouth.
Pretty spot-on. “These same owners then use their greater wealth to cement in place the structures which elevate them above the workers and facilitate this theft (or “trickle-up,” if you prefer).
Charlie is saying, I think, that crime on this scale and of this type ought to be punished severely.”
Now, Europe (in many nations), which are basically social democracies existing within capitalist economies, at the LEAST allow for universal health care and education, and they have their millionaires and billionaires too, but as it continues to turn toward the right there, you’re going to see more and more chaos. What the Parisians did a couple year ago (now?) … general strikes, may not be as effective as new generations are brought up in a neoliberal nightmare. Here, in the good old US&A, we don’t have the a) knowledge and/or sophistication/education, and b) our geography and demography are too diverse (in a bad way) to ever find that general strike (how I wish we could). But as long as the levers of power remain with corporations and you LUNATICS defend that structure … well, like Grandpa Pietro used to say after a coughing fit (he had one lung from smoking): “Chah-ley, it wont’a be long’a now.”
Yes.
If your version of “seeing the world differently” places ownership of a superyacht above ensuring the basic human needs of your fellow man are being met, then you are a bad person.
You are free to find it such.
I stand by it.
This is – absolutely – MY opinion, and I asserted it such, and I stand by it as such.
As for who I am, I am someone with a concept of what a billion dollars is, what it can buy, how it can be grown and deployed.
I do not begrudge a billionaire their luxuries. No, not even their super-yachts and private space programs. But I do believe that, when they prioritize these over feeding the hungry or paying their workers living wages, that they are bad people.
And they should be called bad people.
Because they are bad.
Bull-shit, my fine Texan friend.
I have EVERY right to criticize. And I will do so as I see fit.
You confuse “criticize” with “advocate for the use of government fiat violence to seize his wealth for redistribution.”.
I most certainly did not.
Perhaps you confuse me with someone with a similar name who believes that “the top marginal tax rate at $1b should be 100% and that it should be set up to capture MTM unrealized gains on all assets as well so that these assholes can’t avoid it while executing anyone caught hiding their wealth.” But that’s not me.
You confuse “criticize” with “advocate for the use of government fiat violence to seize his wealth for redistribution.”.
I stand corrected.
Ya know, you have to let Mathius out periodically for fresh air….
Mathius has been missing since his special dinner.
Be back this evening, folks….have to fly the border. Back later.
That’s not a real place!
https://www.judicialwatch.org/tea-party-targeting/?fbclid=IwAR2xj1wggUx8Dn-TGZEhK2vbU11ST5MzHPQlHllCuHj1pfEcRvgURzX055o
Like I said way back then, her and the Obama administrations excuses, er I mean explanations, were B.S.. There never was a requirement to identify donors to get the 501 (c) (3) status. They made it up.
Because when you start a not for profit you don’t have donors yet. You just have to list the officers.
I detest this weaponization of the federal bureaucracy for political purposes. We need a wholesale cleanup. We also needs some butts to land in prison to send a message to those remaining to follow the rules.
I remember having long debates with Mathius over this issue. He defended the IRS but I am sure he will go back and dig up evidence to the contrary. He is good at covering both arse cheeks.
I’m in a black hole again.
Then how are you sending messages out?!?
You’ve broken physics!
I see the RATIONALIZING of theft from the left in on full display this morning.
Claiming the lefties/liberals/progressives/socialists etc simply want to lift up the poor but “not tear down the rich” is hilarious. The rhetoric attacking the rich is NOT SOME SMALL COHORT. An entire political party is predicated on this behavior.
If a person wants to lift up the poor they can A) Create a job and hire them or B) Give them charity.
Of course when they don’t want to impair their own net worth they cry to steal the money of others to meet what? Their OWN PERSONAL ego.
So in reality they COVET other’s money so they can feel the gratification of raising up the poor. And quite often without costing them anything from their own pocket.
There are only so many emotional, psychological, needs we have discovered. Things like envy, pity, sympathy, empathy, jealousy, charity and coveting.
We are now being told that theft is charity. That the desire to take that which is not yours and give to others that one FEELS are in need is somehow NOT coveting or is not based on envy or jealousy.
Seems to me the real sociopaths are those willing to steal from others to stroke their own need for self gratification.
I’ll let Charlie field this.
I will say that I believe your own bias is showing.
You can disagree with their methods without impugning their intentions.
So it is OK for you but not for me. Interesting but consistent.
What is ok for me, but not for you?
Impugning intentions.
Only sociopaths can accumulate great wealth, right.
Close.
Only sociopaths would hoard such unfathomable wealth while there is such great suffering they could so easily remedy
It is possible to accumulate wealth, even great wealth, and to hoard for yourself and your family sufficient funds to ensure your own security and prosperity and basic needs and comfort and luxury without being a sociopath. This could fall under the questionable adage of one Mr. Gekko: “Greed is Good.” But there comes a point of diminishing returns where “greed” becomes something else, a new thing, a thing unto itself, an END unto itself, no longer in service of the person, but a defining character flaw.
I will say again: if a person’s worldview places their ownership of a superyacht above feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, or housing the homeless, then that person is a bad person.
And they should be drummed out of society, a pariah.
There is no credible NEED for wealth above $1b. Even $100m is silly. At this point, you are simply trying to win, to out-compete, to prove something, to gain bragging rights, to rank higher on the Forbes list, to acquire wealth for the sake of wealth and power for the sake of power. A man who finds himself in possession of such largess and chooses to indulge in absurd ostentatious displays of superluxury, of megayachts and private space flight, while failing to provide for the actually NEEDS of his fellow man… that man is not a man, but an animal, and deserves nothing but our scorn.
Only sociopaths would hoard such unfathomable wealth while there is such great suffering they could so easily remedy.
Well, calls for speculaton.
First, you have no idea what they may want the billions for. And would not expanding their businesses and creating even more jobs do greater good in the long run that just giving it away?
And who decides what is “easily remedied?” That looks a lot like just a rhetorical trick to me.
Try to remember back when the Bush II/Obama bailouts were happening. Folks were screaming about take the wealth away and help the poor instead. Someone did an analysis of how long it would last. I recall ONE year to spend it all, and then there would be no more. Why? Because all the wealth that underlies the daily operations of businesses would be gone. I know this gets into the mechanics of how to solve poverty but it does do to the notion that you or anyone can decide what is easily remedied let alone what is “great suffering”.
Kind of like the Poverty Level……….. constantly moving and relative to everything else.
I could credibly use $1 billion by the way. Who are you to say otherwise?
“First, you have no idea what they may want the billions for. And would not expanding their businesses and creating even more jobs do greater good in the long run that just giving it away?”
Why, yes, why didn’t I think of that? More exploitation means more capital. Thanks for the advice, JAC. Now let’s see what other wonderful advice you might have.
“I know this gets into the mechanics of how to solve poverty but it does do to the notion that you or anyone can decide what is easily remedied let alone what is “great suffering”.
Nobody said poverty would be “easily remedied” … what we’re suggesting is that under the current system during the last stages of capitalism YOU GUYS better figure it out before somebody takes a good idea (the Knucklehead Revolution) and puts it to better use and by people a LOT smarter than the morons who took shits on the capitol floor and thought they achieved something.
“I could credibly use $1 billion by the way. Who are you to say otherwise?”
NOBODY can credibly use $1 billion, by the way. We’ll give you enough to live on. More or less depending on the levels of exploitation you engaged in … and you can take it or leave it behind. 🙂
Oh, key point. We AGREE that someone with a character flaw could decide to “hoard” wealth for all kinds of reasons caused by their psychosis. None of which truly feed the ego, but support its destruction.
I know we often use the word “greed” to describe this but it seems “gluttony'” would be a better choice.
Agreed.
P.S.
What bias? The bias that reality of personal emotions/desires should be considered and the justification of theft is nothing but a rationalization?
Or the reality that YOUR desire to help someone does NOT give you the right to take from me to satisfy your own desires?
That you can think Charlie is wrong – it’s ok, I think he’s wrong, too! – without thinking his motivates are impure.
He wants to help people.
His methods are… bad. And, worse, counterproductive.
But his goal is not to hurt people – it’s to help people.
He sees people BEING hurt by the wealthy and wants to make it stop.
Some might be apologists for the ultra-wealthy, but I will decline to lick their boots. They are EVIL. And, in their monomaniacal pursuit of wealth and power, they have hijacked your government to entrench their power and wealth at the expense of the non-donor-classes.
Charlie has correctly identified the oppressors,.even if his reasoning and theories are a tad off-kilter. He isn’t trying to justify theft – he’s trying to UNDO what he sees as theft that’s already occurring. He doesn’t see it as theft. He sees it as returning what was stolen and stopping further theft. He isn’t trying to oppress the rich – he’s trying to stop the rich from oppressing others.
Is he right? I think you know this pirate’s answer to that.
But his goal is to help the downtrodden, and I think you unfairly malign him when you call this “rationalization” and “covetousness.”
I never said he did not want to help people.
I said his desire to do so feeds his ego. Ergo, his theft of my property to supposedly help others is in fact feeding his own self esteem. Or his ego, or self gratification. Pick any one of many lables. They all come down to selfishness used to justify theft.
His view that others are harmed by the rich are again based on his ego, his own and personal feelings. Maybe sometimes it is based on fact but it seems mostly emotion enflamed by decades of Marixist rhetoric and an Us vs. Them mentality. Now if he witnesses actual harm and wants to help he is free to do so. I would note here that stopping actual harm is usually a matter of law and its enforcement. Not of class warfare which is ALWAYS and economic argument.
Do you deny that the donor class harms you through their domination of your government?
I suggest you may have more common cause than you realize..
DPM
I have pointed out here many times that virtually everyone in the USA is represented by lobbyists who deal with our Govt. So I will not accept such a generalized term as “donor class.” I will grant you that some groups or people get unequal treatment by the politicians. This is not always because of money. Sometimes it is because they believe the same things. Of course, money would flow to your friends. This can go as deep as shared ideology or as shallow as Issue X.
Also, remember the hierarchy.
Those who donate AND work to produce votes are at the top.
Those who work to get votes sit second.
Just the money sits third.
Having seen it first hand I am want to use generalizations when describing how they all interact. But there is no doubt that money plays a huge role in politics. But not all money comes from one source.
Truthfully speaking, our govt. is dominated by those who scream the loudest (special interests). Then it goes to the hierarchy above. If all you do is scream little will happen. You have to show you can produce votes, somehow. Either with money or work, or both.
And finally, to answer your question directly. YES, I am harmed by special interest domination of my govt. But then Govt. itself is a special interest as well. 🙂
As a rule, the damage done to me diminishes the closer the Governance is to where I live. Nationalization results in the greatest harm, as those who live elsewhere make demands that I must pay for, in some way.
One more thing. He is ABSOLUTLEY trying to rationalize theft. He does this by playing a mental trick on himself, arguing that if I make money from my business I TOOK it from my employees, and thus taking it from me is justified.
Sorry my Pirate friend, but it is what it is.
Charlie’s a big boy – he can defend himself.
” An entire political party is predicated on this behavior.”
One piece of nonsense at a time. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that the Democratic Party is so “LEFT” it seeks to take from the wealthy? Have you lost your mind? Have you witnessed what they’ve done when they had the votes to change the system (i.e., universal healthcare as opposed to an insurance company giveaway (the ACA), how the DID NOT change the Bush NOR the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, and going back to the President who completely abandoned unions for Wall Street, Slick MFing Willy, doing away with Glass-Steagall. It’s very difficult to take you serious when you start with such an absurd and RIDICULOUS statement. You seriously have to be kidding us or yourself.
That’s part 1. I’m working so I’ll address the rest of the nonsense later, although I already can’t see the point.
I just read the rest and I was right. Too absurd to touch. Absolute BULLSHIT.
Without their class warfare and constant carping about everything racist and phobic they wouldn’t have enough voters to win the races for dog catcher.
That’s about as accurate as it gets, Mr. Canine. The GOP tells the working class to go “f” itself and the working class that follows it is dumb enough to think their rhetoric is real. The Dems are in a never-ending cycle of “fing” the working class (often wearing Kente cloth or having Hillary visit the mothers of murdered black kids until, of course, she doesn’t need them anymore). Why I often say and catch shit for it on my FB page, I hate the Dems more than the GOP (which I regard as LUNATICS) because of the heart/rainbow and blm they “claim” to support. They support nothing but retaining their jobs and a guarantee that when they leave, they can become a lobbyist or CEO, etc.
The entire system is for shit.
And remember, I not only wanted Hillary to lose in 2016, I protest voted for her opponent. Imagine that? I did so because I knew the corruption of our entire system would be on display for 1-4 years (depending on whether he did something so outrageous he’d be impeached — little did I know how spineless the Republican Party actually is) … and now we have it in spades. CORRUPTION from both sides of the aisle and a new spectacle to watch as the corporations that run the world pick our pockets and you LUNATICS cheer it on. 🙂
WHICH corporations are PICKING YOUR POCKET? Specific examples please.
How about Big Oil, Agribusiness, Big Pharma, Auto Industry, etc.
How exactly did they pick your pocket?
And don’t say tax breaks, because that is just them keeping their money.
I want to know how they stole from you.
Percent of gross receipts that are reported as profit (typical): ExxonMobil 10%, Coca-Cola 25%. One is a necessity, one is a luxury. From 2010-2022 GM’s profit never exceeded 10% and was actually negative in 2018. I will give you big pharma.
I worked in a small business that manufactured scientific equipment that fit into a box less than a quarter the size of a refrigerator. A typical instrument sold for $60K about the same as a Corvette with thousands of more parts in it. Automobiles are a bargain considering their complexity.
I don’t know about big ag but I do know about family farmers. Very few small farmers I know are rich. Most eke out a decent salary despite having millions invested in land and equipment. I have calculated the profit from an acre of corn many times and do not see how they survive. I can go through numbers if you would like. Farming is one of the few industries that buys everything a retail and sells at wholesale. A bushel of corn sells now for about $7. I bushel is 56 lbs. A 9.6 oz box of Kellogg’s Corn Flakes is $6.49 or $218/bu. For that bushel of corn, the farmer had to till the soil, buy seed, fertilize, herbicide, and insecticide, plant it, fertilize it, spray it with herbicide and insecticide, pick the corn, dry it, store it, and finally pay the shipping cost to the elevator. At the elevator, if the corn has too many weeds in it, they dock the price. If it is too moist, they again dock the price. If it is too dry, the weight is low and the farmer loses once again. The equipment used for these operations could easily run in excess of $500K. This does not include the mortgage payments on the land, the crop insurance, fuel costs, cost of buildings, etc.
Typical small manufacturing businesses add up the cost of direct labor and materials and multiply that by 3x to get the sales price. The 2x part goes to pay overhead, indirect labor (management), R&D, physical plant, sales force, commissions, etc. In the end one typically retains 5% to 25% of the gross sales as profit. My experience was the 10% years were great but there were also -5% years. That is the reality. The worker rarely sees all the costs that go into delivering the product hence has an overblown perception of his part in it. While the worker may not be assured his job, he is assured his salary whether the company is profitable or not. Not so for the owners.
Where’s John Galt? Wish his head up his ass.
https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/exxon-mobil
Subsidies State/Local $1,021,177,998 over 39 year period
Federal loans, loan guarantees and bailout assistance (not including repaymentsb) $3,853,988,000 over 22 years
While I have said multiple times I do not like subsidies, note the time periods and the omission of loan repayments. Over this time period, this is a pittance for a company the size of Exxon. That does not change the fact that Exxon’s profit to sales ratios are not unreasonable. Their profits are huge but that is because the business is huge.
IF JOHN GALT were in charge you wouldn’t be able to complain about subsidies. LMAO
“F JOHN GALT were in charge you wouldn’t be able to complain about subsidies. LMAO”
He’s a fictional character, JAC. A made up fantasy. He’s a nobody. You worship a fantasy.
working class??? Everybody from janitor to the CEO are in the “working class”.
Worthless rhetoric, directly out of Marx.
I assure you that I am not in the working class.
No shit? 🙂
Of course you are. You sit around “working” at looking cute so Mathius will feed you. Sometimes you even have to crawl up on the couch so he or his ladies will scratch your ear.
Mathius has been missing since the other night (after his wife made him a “special apology dinner”). I live on a pirate ship now!
Why don’t you tell me about all the “RISK” owners take, JAC … and then explain to me how they get bailed out at every turn.
Well, Marx was and remains a LOT smarter than Greenspan. 🙂
Marx was and idiot and a thief. Even worse he fomented generations of hatred for the love of a delusional revolution.
No, you have this wrong, JAC. Trump is an idiot. Even worse, he fomented at least one generation of morons who will likely procreate and breed more morons … and all for a delusional American Dream that will last a thousand years, like the last Reich. 🙂
When Janitors make the same salary as CEO’s give me a call, JAC. 🙂
I suggested something before and would appreciate you weighing in.
I said that you do NOT begrudge that a CEO contributes and creates values – and, often – significantly more than a common worker.
Do you, in fact, begrudge this? Do you believe that the CEO should actually be paid the same as (or less than?) the janitor? Or just that the Janitor should be paid* for his work product without the CEO underpaying him and hoarding the difference for himself and the shareholders?
*by whatever fuzzy formula divvies up the fruits of collective labor.
I don’t mind anybody “earning” more money than someone else, as long as it is within reason (and yes, SOMEBODY (collective or not) has to make THAT determination). When these are the figures being tossed about regarding CEO pay vs. a janitor or anyone else, it’s beyond Obscene and has become criminal.
https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/
From the article I posted. CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978
Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time.
CRIMINAL.
Take it up with the boards of directors. They are ones setting the salaries.
“Take it up with the boards of directors. They are ones setting the salaries.”
Isn’t that convenient … 🙂 OFF WITH THEIR HEADS. 🙂
Your argument Charlie, not mine.
You said “working class”.. Now you want to argue about different wage rates.
Such is the argumentation of Marxists, can’t keep in a straight line. Always moving from one thing to another because there really is not a solid foundation on which to stand. It always comes back to the emotional rhetoric of envy, greed, jealousy, etc. etc.
One of the oldest tells in the book is when they resort to calling pay for work “slave wages” or worse yet, “wage slavery.”
JAC, sing your song to someone who might pay attention. Your defense of total bullshit is pathetic. Look at the article I just posted regarding CEO pay vs. average worker … 940% vs. 12% increases since 1978.
ARE YOU F’N KIDDING ME! 🙂
Proving my point yet again.
Did I forget Slick’s NAFTA debacle? I guess so. Another method of destroying manufacturing and the working class for the sake of corporations. You’re nuts, brother. Absolutely nuts.
The purpose of NAFTA was to LIFT UP THE POOR in Mexico. Now you are a Nationalist? You want OUR manufacturing protected so that POOR Mexicans can starve without work? I thought Socialists didn’t believe in national borders.
Nice try, JAC. You just proved my point regarding the inevitability of capitalism. it will ALWAYS seek the cheapest labor and lands where it can exploit the resources of other nation states and when the corporations that run the country can write their own legislation and have your GOP or the Dems rubber stamp it, how long do you think it’ll be before you have 300,000,000 people or so ready to cut your throat? No, JAC, I’m not a nationalist. The jobs were already here. Your profit over people “owners and boards of directors” saw cheaper labor and went for it, as they always will. You a true patriot, JAC, or just another shill for the elites? 🙂
So your not a Nationalist, but moving jobs to Mexico so that poor Mexicans could have jobs that did not exist there is exploiting those poor Mexicans. Right? As in the ones who did not have jobs but got jobs when the business was moved or expanded to Mexico.
The irony of your argument is that NAFTA is exactly what you might expect of a Socialist. Except they would have demanded Govt. ownership of the businesses outright.
You have created the very box you now find yourself trapped in. Either you support keeping those jobs here for Americans, which makes you a Nationalist, or you are OK with moving them elsewhere to help those “others”, making you the Globalist Socialist you claim to be.
And since you don’t seem to get it, let me clarify. This is about YOUR arguments, not mine. I simply stated what the intent of NAFTA was at the time, that was being pushed by the Council on Foreign Affairs, Democrats/Republicans, and the UN. Since you don’t seem to remember past discussions, I was on the side of fighting against NAFTA at the time. So you can stop all the projections and hyperbole.
JAC, I’m starting to believe you have these arguments in your head. The ONLY purpose of NAFTA was for capitalists to “earn” while doing nothing more than they would have paying for American labor (especially unionized labor). The FACT that the government couched it in some bogus termination is should make you proud of Bill Clinton (rather than hate him because he was a Democratic party sellout). You seriously kill me. The other thing some socialists and communists) don’t believe in are borders, so then Mexicans without work applies. Remember your life credo: ME, MINE!
NAFTA is also one sided not in favor of the US….For example, Mexican trucks can drive US highways…but American trucks cannot drive on Mexican Highways. This is just ONE example. NAFTA sucks!!! Always has.
Colonel, there is comparison between the damage NAFTA did to the midwest vs. truckers. Both are bad, but the first was devastating. Yes, NAFTA sucks.
Trump’s tax cuts benefited the middle class proportionately more than it did the upper class. The wage gap decreased under Trump and the poor were actually doing better. Labor is a commodity that obeys supply and demand just like any other commodity. Trump slowed down the illegal immigration thus increasing wages and jobs. Biden on the other hand paid people not to work and opened the border. Guess what is happening.
Again, Capitalism = Liberty. It is nothing more and nothing less.
It demands nothing in the way of Systems or Government bodies dictating to you how you will live. It is agnostic with respect to what is good or evil, right or wrong.
Which is unlike all other “systems”. They all require some type of imposition upon Liberty in order to achieve the goals of those who are in control.
It really is that simple. So if one wants to get the bad out of Capitalism then focus on what is bad and good. Define it well enough that Society can agree and then codify it and eventually enforce it.
Let me remind everyone that Robin Hood was still a thief. The legend, myth, story relies one the justification that he was simply taking back that which was stolen. But Robin Hood didn’t take from the Rich. He took from the STATE which had unfairly taxed the citizenry.. The story was originally about STATE CORRUPTION, not the rich vs. poor class war we think of today.
Let us take apart this crock of shit.
“Again, Capitalism = Liberty. It is nothing more and nothing less.”
When you “hire” someone and his survival is dependent on the pay you give him/her, it has little to nothing to do with “Liberty.”
“It demands nothing in the way of Systems or Government bodies dictating to you how you will live. It is agnostic with respect to what is good or evil, right or wrong.”
Capitalism wouldn’t survive 5 minutes without the support of the government (Chomsky) … now tell me how much smarter you are than Chomsky … unless you’re blind and ignorant or both, the government has been the sole support system of capitalism from the get-go. Ignoring bailouts that saved capitalism, ignoring FDR’s saving capitalism via socialism (isn’t it interesting how that still happens today – socialism for the wealthy, bootstraps for the people?) … ignoring all that, the governments’ expansion via violence and suppression and the exploitation of other nation states via the military and economic sanctions, etc., is how capitalism survived. You’re literally living in a bubble, my man. One big fairy tale. Agnostic my ass.
“Which is unlike all other “systems”. They all require some type of imposition upon Liberty in order to achieve the goals of those who are in control.”
All governments are required to impose regulations or there is no purpose to them. Every social contract involves regulations – it is their purpose.
“It really is that simple. So if one wants to get the bad out of Capitalism then focus on what is bad and good. Define it well enough that Society can agree and then codify it and eventually enforce it.”
Yet when those attempts were made (30’s-60’s) the two ruling parties made sure to push socialist and communist parties to the margins, jailing many (forcing Debbs to run for President from prison) and removing them from the workforce (where they no longer had their slave wages to survive) with Tail Gunner Joe doing his “liberty loving” best to suppress people. You probably worship that scumbag.
“Let me remind everyone that Robin Hood was still a thief. The legend, myth, story relies one the justification that he was simply taking back that which was stolen. But Robin Hood didn’t take from the Rich. He took from the STATE which had unfairly taxed the citizenry.. The story was originally about STATE CORRUPTION, not the rich vs. poor class war we think of today.”
And who ruled the State, genius? Was it some farmer barely surviving? You continue to kill me.
https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/fauci-knows-he-funded-gain-function-research-misled-congress-former-cdc
Trump got his special master. This one was burned by the Page FISA warrant debacle so this could get interesting. Trumps’ lawyer said last night that the only materials returned have been the passports.
As Anita and VH say, pass the popcorn.
Anita, good luck with Washington, we drew Auburn.
Me thinks Anita got the best of that split.
Explain this one to me. “Deranged Trump supporter arrested for allegedly threatening to bomb children’s hospital. Suffering children were evacuated from the building after the Trump donor ranted about “sicko” doctors.”
American Exceptionalism … a bomb threat against a CHILDREN’S hospital.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/09/deranged-trump-supporter-arrested-allegedly-threatening-bomb-childrens-hospital/
And Bernie is responsible for shooting up the Rs baseball team. See the blame game goes both ways.
Too bad the guy couldn’t shoot straight … but you still don’t have the left attacking the capitol, do you? 🙂
The LEFT actually bombed the Capitol. Apparently you don’t know your history.
Yes, but they didn’t shit in the hallways. 🙂
Stay classy, Maga.
A political stunt backfires. I don’t, Colonel, 85% criminals? Really? 🙂
Oh Boo Hoo.
Your Christian spirit sings loud, my brother. 🙂
The Boo Hoo is not for the immigrants but for the whining residents of Martha’s Vineyard. Their slip is showing; They should be embarrassed.
Actually, they welcomed them with open arms and exposed the LIES of the two Governors and their pathetic sycophantic minions. On the other hand, they got them off that island pretty quickly. Bottom line: You don’t treat people like pawns, unless you’re a Republican Maga fool, but not to worry, because Trump is portrayed as the 2nd coming anyway, some so at least one version of “the” Christ is on your side. 🙂
Actually, they welcomed them with open arms and exposed the LIES of the two Governors and their pathetic sycophantic minions.
Total BS……they were not welcomed with open Christian Arms. They were detained and then shipped off the island to a military base with in 24 hours…and this from your liberal loving types.
I also need to remind you, Abbott sent no one to the Island but he did send them to Kamala.
Didn’t they start from Texas? Either way, they’re both political stunts that will backfire. First of all, they are asylum seekers with a right to be here for their cases. Lying to them will reinforce which party gets their votes in the end. Totally stupid move.
You know, Charlie, trying to explain the border to you is impossible. My only answer to you…come on down and see it for yourself. I have the stroke and the assets to take you around and see what comes across. In my area, Del Rio to Presidio, 15% of those that cross are legitimate personnel that are simply looking for work. The other 85% are single males…all between the ages of 20 and 42. But what the hell, come on down and look for yourself…or sit there like Kamala and Biden and his shadow to claim…the border is secure.
Until they secure the border, we will continue to send them to you. Of course, you understand, none are vetted. Most have zero Identification, and none are tested for any disease unless we spot it…like measles, whooping cough, etc. But, I do not expect you to believe it….until you come down here and spend some time…
Come fly the border with me (I can arrange that) and count the number of times we get pot shot at from the Mexican side….sometimes from the US side but mostly the river’s edge in remote areas from the Mexican side.
Or are you one of those that believe that if the border is open, then the violence stops and the immigrants do not have to pay the cartels to cross. At any rate, I invite you down….I can even put you up and feed you courtesy of the Texas Guard.
No thanks, Colonel. I never said the border was secure, but if both parties refuse to agree on a solution, you can blame either side and you get the same result (which is nothing). I’ll also suggest that the reason those people are trying to get away from their countries into ours has a lot to do with our interventions in all things south of the border. So, you can blame our foreign policies as well … you know, the capitalists up here that rape the resources and exploit the cheap labor down there … 9-11 was another anniversary, by the way. The day American and a right wing dictator (Pinochet) overthrew a democratically elected government (Allende in Chile) … and started a massive stranglehold on the people of Chile (not so different than what Batista did with our blessings in Cuba). Like I say, America is the biggest terrorist nation on the planet and it tends to not like the results of its interference.
Or did it??? You are correct, a “political stunt” has backfired. But it is once again the Elite Left that is caught in their FAKE narrative.
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2022/09/17/turns-out-the-illegals-sent-to-marthas-vineyard-werent-deceived-about-their-destination-n628747
I have a lot more sources than your rightwing psycho ones. 🙂
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article265894561.html
Hey, Pirate, back from my border issues….still in Del Rio, however. Only got shot at once while we were out. That person will not shoot ever again. We showed him the error of his ways.
Thank you for the translation but it is the Obama era BS about…”you did not build that”. I pay no attention to this type of stuff. The jobs would never have been created without someone taking the risk, borrowing the money, and then risking the market. The employer has the right to set the scale he/she wants and the prospective employee has a choice of working there or not. No one can arbitrarily define what a living wage is…they have no idea. A living wage is what the employee determines it is and if they are not meeting their ends, then change your expenses or move on to somewhere that can meet the needs. It is NOT…repeat NOT up to the employer to determine what an employee or prospective employee needs. Now, to take the socialist side further, what about the lawsuits that arise out of faulty products or a breakdown, should the employees be part of that? The answer from the socialist side, I think, would be no..but if they did the work, according to the gospel of Charlie, why not? Would that not fit the mantra of the socialist side or is it the employer takes all the risk and bad side and the employee only the good side?
This is why I now have independent contractors. I save anywhere from 18 to 22% of cost, they are in charge of their own retirement program, in charge of their hours, etc. As long as I get the work done by the time I need it done, terrific. If they meet or exceed the standards that I set as far as production, then they share in the profits on top of their contract rate. I do not have to worry about HR nor labor unions. I do not have employees and independent contractors do not want unions nor do they want union benefits. I do not require college degrees. I do, however, require proof of citizenship and I require the speaking of English. Proof of citizenship is a passport or a verifiable birth certificate. If they are from out of country, then I require a certified green card and date stamped raised seal work visa. In some areas I require a working knowledge of the specialty I am looking for…..I give literacy tests to all as well as math requirements in the areas that is needed and they must pass a test to prove expertise. ( I have had college graduates that came up through the affirmative action programs that could not spell cat or dog or even comprehend a Dr Suess Cat in the Hat.) I deal a lot in metric and volumes and they must know how to calculate the same without a calculator. Calculators and cell phones breakdown and in this day in time of “just in time”, I do not have the liberty of waiting.
And the most interesting part…..I have a line of independent contractors wanting a position.
Hey, Pirate, back from my border issues….still in Del Rio, however. Only got shot at once while we were out. That person will not shoot ever again. We showed him the error of his ways.
Thank you for the translation but it is the Obama era BS about…”you did not build that”. I pay no attention to this type of stuff. The jobs would never have been created without someone taking the risk, borrowing the money, and then risking the market. The employer has the right to set the scale he/she wants and the prospective employee has a choice of working there or not. No one can arbitrarily define what a living wage is…they have no idea. A living wage is what the employee determines it is and if they are not meeting their ends, then change your expenses or move on to somewhere that can meet the needs. It is NOT…repeat NOT up to the employer to determine what an employee or prospective employee needs. Now, to take the socialist side further, what about the lawsuits that arise out of faulty products or a breakdown, should the employees be part of that? The answer from the socialist side, I think, would be no..but if they did the work, according to the gospel of Charlie, why not? Would that not fit the mantra of the socialist side or is it the employer takes all the risk and bad side and the employee only the good side?
This is why I now have independent contractors. I save anywhere from 18 to 22% of cost, they are in charge of their own retirement program, in charge of their hours, etc. As long as I get the work done by the time I need it done, terrific. If they meet or exceed the standards that I set as far as production, then they share in the profits on top of their contract rate. I do not have to worry about HR nor labor unions. I do not have employees and independent contractors do not want unions nor do they want union benefits. I do not require college degrees. I do, however, require proof of citizenship and I require the speaking of English. Proof of citizenship is a passport or a verifiable birth certificate. If they are from out of country, then I require a certified green card and date stamped raised seal work visa. In some areas I require a working knowledge of the specialty I am looking for…..I give literacy tests to all as well as math requirements in the areas that is needed and they must pass a test to prove expertise. ( I have had college graduates that came up through the affirmative action programs that could not spell cat or dog or even comprehend a Dr Suess Cat in the Hat.) I deal a lot in metric and volumes and they must know how to calculate the same without a calculator. Calculators and cell phones breakdown and in this day in time of “just in time”, I do not have the liberty of waiting.
And the most interesting part…..I have a line of independent contractors wanting a position.
“you don’t treat people like pawns”??????? Holy crap Batman, WTF has been going on since 20JAN21
Do you mean the criminals who stormed the capitol?
By the way, here’s a good take on the judge who return-gifted her appointment to the bench. Apparently, she’s a total incompetent, just like the moron who appointed her. 🙂
LMAO this AM.
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2022/09/17/this-song-perfectly-sums-up-the-attitudes-of-marthas-vineyards-residents-towards-illegal-immigrants-n628812
Aside: Watched about 20 seconds of CNN last night while trying to find the football game. They has on Martha Vineyard residents carping about the Governors and how these poor people are “refugees from Communism”.
One lady got all chocked up and started crying about the wonderful people and how they are being used. AS THEY BOARDED THE BUSES TO CAMP CAPE COD.
But what struck me was how “emotional” these locals were over people they had only met 24 hours earlier. I doubt many of them spent very long in contact with them, since they brought in National Guard to help them.
Seems Massatwoshits can mobilize over a hundred of the Guard to help feed about 50 people, but can’t be bothered with sending any to the border to help stop the problem.
They’d have to acknowledge there is a problem.
I seem to be in jail.
Yes you were my dear. Can’t explain your sudden incarceration but at least you can say you are part of an elite group now. 🙂
You guys have connections. Send them to the Hamptons on Long Island. Now that I would root for. 🙂
A pair of assholes singing garbage. Must be Christians.
Here’s a much better song to feast on. 🙂
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/09/16/liberal-narratives-implode-with-nycs-new-response-to-illegal-aliens-bused-from-texas-n628645
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11211527/El-Pasos-border-crisis-deepens-1-000-migrants-left-sleep-streets.html
OMG, some days are just more fun than others. On top of the new song hit about the broken Karens at the Vineyard, we now have this, about the Biden Admin pressuring FBI agents to find white supremacy cases:
According to rank-and-file agents, though, the demand for such crimes far outstrips the supply. The report comes via The Washington Times.
“The demand for White supremacy” coming from FBI headquarters “vastly outstrips the supply of White supremacy,” said one agent, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We have more people assigned to investigate White supremacists than we can actually find.”
Yup!
https://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/
Look, another right wing icon goes down in flames. See what I mean about the levers of power, people? You do but you won’t … because you’re about as unlike YOUR Jesus as it comes. 🙂
https://thecomeback.com/nfl/shannon-sharpe-brett-favre-welfare-sleazeball.html
A NEW ARTICLE HAS BEEN POSTED.
Time to move the discussion, if you want.