Multiculturalism – Political correctness gone awry ?

First, it is important to look up the definition of multiculturalism. Try it. There are dozens of definitions and suggestions as to what it is or thought to be. It is ironic, but I don’t think anyone knows what it is much less what it means.

Wikipedia states : Multiculturalism has a number of different meanings. At one level the term means the appreciation, acceptance or promotion of multiple cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities or nations. In this sense multiculturalism approximates to respect for diversity. The term may also describe people who have more than one culture in them (people who grew up with more than one cultural identity, also sometimes called bicultural).

In a political context the term has come to mean the advocacy of extending equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups without promoting any specific ethnic, religious, and/or cultural community values as central. Multiculturalism as “cultural mosaic” is often contrasted with the concepts assimilationism and social integration and has been described as a “salad bowl” rather than a “melting pot.”

In contemporary society, different understandings of the term have resulted in two different and seemingly inconsistent strategies:

The first focuses on interaction and communication between different cultures. Interactions of cultures provide opportunities for the cultural differences to communicate and interact to create multiculturalism.
The second centers on diversity and cultural uniqueness.

Author Friedrich Heckmann, has defined multiculturalism seven ways. Briefly,

  • (1) “multiculturalism” or “multicultural society” are used as indicators of social change, referring to the changing ethnic composition of the population;
  • (2) Secondly, the terms are used in what might be called a normative-cognitive way. This use could be circumscribed as follows: we should recognize the fact that we have become a country of immigration, that we need immigration, at present and in the future, and should accept the social and cultural consequences;
  • (3) multiculturalism as tolerance toward others;
  • (4) multiculturalism is an interpretation of the concept of culture: there are no “pure,” original cultures;
  • (5) multiculturalism is an attitude that looks upon some aspects of the immigrants’ culture (folklore, food, for example) and sees these as possible enrichment of “our” culture;
  • (6) Multiculturalism as a political-constitutional principle referring to ethnic identities as a major basis for political and state organization, for the distribution of rights and resources; it means the reinforcing of ethnic pluralism, ethnic autonomy, and speaks out against acculturation or assimilation, against one “state language”; and
  • (7) multiculturalism is regarded as a well intended but illusory concept which overlooks the necessity for a common culture, language, and identification to enable societal and state integration and stability.

The Free Dictionary defines it as: Noun 1. multiculturalism – the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country.

The list goes on and on but I think that everyone can get the picture. There is no single definition and it is open for interpretation as anyone’s agenda sees fit to use it.

In the United States, we tried a variety of “cultural” changes. Affirmative Action, desegregation, school busing, racial and ethnic quotas in hiring and education, the dumbing down of society so “everyone of ethnic/cultural background” can succeed, forced housing, etc. None of these programs had great success and some were flat out dismal failures and created a wider chasm between cultures in America. America was once known as the great melting pot of the world. Immigrants came from all over the world to seek the freedoms and the lifestyles of America….to be part of something great and wonderful. But there is one major difference to the immigration of the past and that of today. Those that immigrated to America at the turn of the 20th century did not come here to form their own country… they came here and assimilated and learned our language and learned our laws and conformed and accepted America as it was. America accepted them with open arms. They took a pledge to America and its people and its culture. Immigrants were not required to forget their own culture and customs but it was required to integrate them into ours and become one of us….an American and abide by our laws and respect OUR culture and OUR land.

Then political correctness became the new plague that is destroying America today. Multiculturalism is actually a bastard child of political correctness. Europe has been trying the social engineering (multiculturalism) experiment for some time and now, one by one, they are seeing the result. England has denounced it. Spain has denounced it. France has denounced it. Germany has denounced it. What is the primary reason? The failure to adopt the host country as their own. The failure to fit into society and learn its language.

Black Flag proudly points out that Belgium is breaking the record of a country going the longest without a government. What is mentioned in the article, was that the individual communities have actually taken over the duty of large government. “Although its national motto is “Strength Through Unity,” Belgium is becoming increasingly divided between the 6.5 million Dutch speakers in the north and the 4.5 million French speakers in the south. In last June’s elections, the New Flemish Alliance, which advocates outright independence for Dutch-speaking Flanders, emerged as the biggest party.”
“Political rhetoric is becoming more bombastic: a report released Feb. 1 by the U.S. Institute of Peace says the political elites of the country, which used to serve as a model for multiethnic societies, are now stirring up tensions and exploiting linguistic differences to push a parochial political agenda. The long standoff over a new coalition has even raised fears of a Czechoslovakia-style split.”

This type of activity is happening all over Europe and in countries that are pushing for this multiculturalism effort. All one has to do is look at how fragmented  Eastern Europe has become and is becoming more so as ethnic groups immigrate to new areas and form enclaves and not assimilate into their new surroundings. They try to change it to fit their culture and divide the country where they move. I personally spent 8 months in the Bosnia/Herzegovina area in 1996 watching the differing cultures practice genocide. This is what I see of multiculturalism. In Kuwait and Iraq, the Kurds and the Shiites could not even live together. The Sunnis could not stomach the Shiites and the Kurds. In Vietnam, the original inhabitants of that area, the Montgnards, were systematically destroyed by both the South and North Vietnamese because they did not “fit” in.

Politics, religion, and cultural differences exist. There are no two ways about it and they are not designed to exist in perpetuity with each other. This is not a Star Trek world. it will never be a Star Trek World and should not be. I have no problems with a multicultural society but in my purview, multicultural does not mean enclaves within the society you decide to join like Europe is experiencing. When you immigrate to a country……you are joining that country and that society. You obey their rules, their laws, respect their culture and live within it. You accept that culture as your own and you protect that culture or societal laws as your own. When you immigrate to a country to live and work, you do so LEGALLY and without recourse. If you wish to worship your religion, you are free to do so…but you are not free to force your way upon that culture you joined. You accept our holidays and our traditions.

In the United States we tried the great social experiment beginning in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Forced busing and forced integration were two experiments that did not work. As a matter of fact, it is resented by both sides to this very day. What was the result? White kids were bussed to a black neighborhood and black kids were bussed to a white neighborhood and the segregation continued. In the lunch rooms and playgrounds…..the kids of the same cultures still congregated together and still do to this day. Dr. King was doing a great job with his outlook and his ideas. He was NOT in concert with forced integration and busing…his  dream was acceptance of each other as individuals and individual acceptance and that racism is not a building block of the American Dream. He often stated that culture and racism are NOT the same. He often said that to remember your culture is good and to practice your cultural traditions were great in your homes or in private gatherings but cultural differences are not to be forced upon the other…for to do so, creates a greater divide.

We continued our experiment with quotas….Some of you are not old enough to remember the quota system in hiring by using the  statistical approach. If the population in your area was 10%  American Indian, you had to hire 10% Indians. If it was 30% black, your employee force must contain 30% blacks and so on. It failed miserably because it created a quota that did not allow you to hire the best. What was the result? Reverse discrimination and a further polarization of different ethnic groups.

So, this progressive trend towards multiculturalism needs to be redefined. I personally like Dr. King’s viewpoint on it. “We are a society of different cultures but we are Americans first. We are not black first. We are not white first. We are not Indian first. We are Americans first.” And I think that this rings true today. I truly hate this “dash American” society (culture) we have invented. We are all Americans and this country has  its own culture and its own identity. We are English speaking. I do not want to press 1 for Spanish or 2 for Japanese or 3  for whatever. I take personal offense at multicultural signage. Learn English. I wish to celebrate July 4th as our independence day and not have to walk on eggshells because it offends a Muslim or German. It is an American tradition. Live with it. Political correctness is a cowards way out. Multiculturalism is political correctness run amok.

USWeapon Addition

I don’t usually feel the need to add to my author’s thoughts. I will certainly work throughout today and the weekend to add my comments to the discussion. However, I thought I would add the following video, which I found to be a humorous look at multiculturalism by Andrew Claven from Pajama TV.


  1. Good job Colonel.

    I’m 48. My own grandparents came to America straight from Hungary. They worked their tails to the bone to succeed here. Learned our language, ran a fruit farm and my grandpa even went to work at Kaiser/Fraser to build war machines for his new country. Seems that generation had it right. What happened? and what are we supposed to do about it now. Have an MLK moment? Nice try! We’ll be accused of being raaaaacist!

  2. d13thecolonel…great piece and pretty well sums up my feelings toward the immigration issue. If you want to live here so bad, then assimilate or leave.

    This is not to say you have to leave everything you believe behind, rather, learn the ways of your new home and abide by the rules of your new home, and for goodness sake, please learn the language of your new home…

  3. gmanfortruth says:

    Good Morning 🙂

    Colonel, I have to rely on my lenghthy visits in foriegn lands and my understanding of different cultures. When I was in the Middle East, I respected their culture and dis not interfere with their beliefs. I did make friends with an older CMSgt (equivilent) who had 7 wives and 33 kids. While I didn’t interfere with his prayer times (he was in charge of the base firing range in Saudi), I was able to learn a great deal about his culture. He was very open to questions and shared food that is rare to see here in the States. It was a great learning experience. I can say the same for Panamanians and Icelandics as examples as well. To the best of my knowledge, these countries did not tolerate the kind of multiculturism as we seem to deal with here in the states.

    Like you, I don’t want to press 1 for English, I don’t want my workday interrupted by someones prayer time, and I darn sure don’t want to see another countries flag flying higher the Old Glory. This is America, your welcome to come and become Americans, but don’t come here thinking we have to change our ways to abide by your cultural ways and religions. It’s going to be the other way around, your here, you adapt to our way of life.

    What is the root of this problem (yes it’s a problem)? Is it more Liberal/Progressive whining gone wild? Or have we, as Americans just gone soft and refuse to say “NO”? I have and wear a T-shirt that spells out my feelings, ” This is America learn English or go back where you came from”. Maybe if more people wore similar T-shirts promoting the American way, we can reverse this trend of further division.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Since when was the American way: “Be like me, a ‘real’ American”?

      I agree that in many instances we’ve gone overboard with the PC stuff, but lets not compare ourselves to Europe on this score. Remember, unlike these European countries, we were founded on principles of multiculutralism (“bring us your tired, your poor, huddled masses…” and whatnot).

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Buck, I don’t want to become what Europe has become. Look at all the problems in France when it comes to integrating Muslims into the French society. I would rather just accept others due to mutual respect than to have another culture demand I change to suit their desires. An example would be the Florida who applied Muslim law to a case recently. That is a “problem” that doen’t belong in our country. We have our laws, if someone wants their laws “Muslim, Sharia, ect” I suggest they go to a country that applies the laws they desire.

        Hope your day is well Sir! 🙂

        • Buck the Wala says:

          I feel like we’ve had this discussion. There is no problem of encroaching Sharia law in this country.

          I completely agree – “accept others due to mutual respect”. But how is that to happen if you are walking around wearing a tshirt telling foreigners they are unwelcome here because they may not speak English? That is not mutual respect. We shouldn’t be forced to change our ways; but why should they be forced to change theirs?

          • Do you expect them to learn English if you went to their country simply because you popped up there.?

          • gmanfortruth says:

            “but why should they be forced to change theirs?”

            Simple answer. If I live in Panama and want to do business and be successful, I would, by nature of business, have to learn their language. But I chose to move to their country. The same should apply here, they chose to come here, if they want to prosper, then learn our language. Instead, they want demand everything to be bilingual. That’s very costly for one, and not how things should be done. Let the immigrants adapt to our country, we can help them and work with them, but don’t demand we change our laws to meet their needs.

            • Buck the Wala says:

              And if you as a business owner require your employees to speak English and maintain professionalism as per the standard in your industry in accordance with American business customs, that is your right.

              But you don’t get to force your employee, or anyone for that matter, to adapt to your ways in all aspects of their lives.

              As far as forcing everything to be made available in different languages, I don’t have a problem with this at all. Remember: there is no national language in the US. None. Not English. Not Spanish. Not Arabic, nor Chinese. I’ve travelled extensively in countries that speak English and do not, and in all countries while I do not expect anyone I deal with to speak English, I can always obtain information in English if I so choose.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                I have no desire to force my way of life upon anyone. What others do in thier own privacy is none of my business. But you did help with possibly answering one question. Buck says” As far as forcing everything to be made available in different languages, I don’t have a problem with this at all.”

                Her’s where I apply the Liberal/Progressive argument. Those on the left seem to think it’s OK to “force”. Hence a big part of the problem.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                Ok, change the wording — “As far as making everything available in different languages, I have no problem with this.”

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Making…forcing…same thing.

              • Buck the Wala says:

                making as in ‘it has been made available’

                not making as in ‘requiring’ or ‘forcing’

      • Good morning, counselor. I am not saying be like me. I do not view the assimilating to be the Star Trek version of The Borg. The the tired, the poor, the huddled masses…when they came here, they became Americans with whatever heritage they had. They came to our schools to learn English. They did not come to our schools and say…it is not fair that you do not have leaders from my country so I demand change….like they do now. Or, I will force you to post different languages and force your schools to have bilingual teachers so that I do not have to learn English…as they do now. It is those things and things like that, Buck, that I think are wrong.

    • USWeapon says:

      Good Morning G-Man,

      You asked what is the cause of this problem. I tend to go away from “liberal/progressive” as the root cause of this, although there are aspects of the progressive mindset that have certainly contributed.

      The main root cause is, IMHO, a combination of political correctness and a part of the American mindset that is part of what makes us better than some others. I look at it from this analogy. I decide I want to see a movie. My desire is the impetus for action. I own a car that is the tool that allows me to the theater.

      PC had a big part to play. I despise political correctness. And it was the tool that made the multiculturalism mess possible (the car). But an inate desire to respect other’s beliefs was the impetus. It is a well intentioned thought process. But the fact is that a movie with a great trailer ended up being a flop once movie-goers watched the whole thing.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        USW, It would be nice to identify the root cause. PC is part of it. Tolerance is part of it. But has it gone too far? If so, how can it be reversed? I have no problems dealing with other cultures, we have a large Amish populations here, and we work and barter with one another almost daily. They do not push their beliefs upon anyone outside their sect, and they work and live in this society just fine.

        Maybe we can look at what aspects are causing the problems, rather than all different cultures and immigrants being huddled unfairly into this issue.

    • Ya know asked some great questions. Our country is evolving and there is no question about that. But I will answer you in an hour or so….damn work you know… to you in a bit and thanks for your response.

  4. gmanfortruth says:

    Buck, Just one example:

    Department of Justice sues school district for rejecting Muslim teacher’s request to make Hajj
    Tuesday, December 14, 2010
    The Justice Department is suing a Chicago-area school district for not allowing a Muslim teacher to take time off to make a religious pilgrimage to Mecca.

    Safoorah Khan’s requests for three weeks of unpaid leave in 2008 were rejected twice by the Berkeley, Ill., school district, according to the Justice Department lawsuit filed on Monday in Chicago.

    Khan’s desire to make the hajj was “not related to her professional duties,” according to the complaint.

    The Justice Department says the school district is in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

    Khan, who started teaching at the middle school in 2007, resigned shortly after being shot down, telling school officials that “based on her religious beliefs, she could not justify delaying performing hajj,” the lawsuit states.

    Millions of Muslims each year travel to Mecca to perform the hajj, which every adult worshipper is required to make at least once in their life.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Why is the DOJ suing? Why did the Muslim teacher HAVE to make her one hajj, now? This is BS!

      • Fox reported last night that Holder himself is prosecuting this case 👿

        • gmanfortruth says:

          So when a black person wants the whole month of February off to celebrate Black History Month in Africa, businesses should accomodate? I think not!

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Without knowing all the facts of the case, my brief thoughts:

      Hajj is a religious practice.
      The teacher wanted UNPAID leave to observe her religious faith and make Hajj (which is a requirement of her faith).
      Her reequest was denied by the school district.

      Unanswered questions — does the school district give other teachers unpaid leave for a variety of personal and religious reasons (i.e., not just maternity leave)? If so, she may well have been discriminated against for her religious practicies. Does the 1964 Act require businesses grant unpaid leave for certain religious observances? If so, the Act may well have been violated by the school district.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I can see you points from the legal standpoint. I’m also looking at the far reaching results of this. Example, American Christians demand that all Sunday’s are a day of worship, and want the day(s) off. This would aplly to all who practice Chritianity, of all ethnic backgrounds. How would that go over in our country?

        • Buck the Wala says:

          See that wouldn’t work.

          In your example, American Christians are demanding that all Christians have off on all Sundays.

          In the above example, it is a single teacher asking for unpaid leave off for a single religious observance. She is not demanding that all Muslims be granted every whatever month of the year off to make Hajj. This is a singular incident and, so long as the district routinely grants unpaid leave for religious reasons to other teachers and/or the 1964 Act provides for such, it should be granted from a legal standpoint.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Looking at the 1964 Act, it was provided to stop discrimination against blacks and women. Although it may have been ammended to include religious discrimination.

            In my opinion, The DOJ seems to be claiming that the 1964 Act somehow prohibits companies/school districts ect. form saying no to requests based on religious beliefs. That would violate Article 1 (Separation of Chuch and State) by applying a law to religion. That don’t sound right, hopefully you can interpret it better than I can write it 🙂

            • Buck the Wala says:

              Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to go through the 1964 Act.

              One line of reasoning that may apply though: if the Act includes a provision against discrimination based on religious grounds. And if the district routinely grants other teachers unpaid leave for religious observances. Then, by denying this teacher’s request to take unpaid leave for a religious observance, the district could have been acting to discriminate her based on her religion.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Under this reasoning, I would agree. They can’t give to one without equally giving to another.

          • Another sticking point, as I understand it, is that this individual had been in her job for only about 7 months, and perhaps had not served out her probationary time in job.

  5. gmanfortruth says:

    Another case:

    Florida Judge Orders Use of Islamic Law in Mosque Case
    Tuesday, 22 Mar 2011 02:35 PM

    TAMPA — A Tampa judge is under fire after ruling that he will follow Islamic law in a case against a local mosque that ultimately could decide who controls $2.2 million in state money.

    Hillsborough Circuit Judge Richard Nielsen said he will decide in a lawsuit against a local mosque, the Islamic Education Center of Tampa, ” whether the parties in the litigation properly followed the teachings of the Koran in obtaining an arbitration decision from an Islamic scholar,” reports.

    “This case will proceed under Ecclesiastical Islamic Law,” the judge wrote in his March 3 ruling.

    The case stems from a lawsuit filed by several male members of the mosque who say that in 2002, they were unfairly and improperly removed as trustees, the site reported. The center later received $2.2 million from the state after some of its land was used in a road project, and who controls that money is part of the lawsuit. quoted the mosque’s attorney saying his client has appealed to the 2nd District Court of Appeal challenging Nielsen’s use of religion in the case.

    “The mosque believes wholeheartedly in the Koran and its teachings,” attorney Paul Thanasides said. “They certainly follow Islamic law in connection with their spiritual endeavors. But with respect to secular endeavors, they believe Florida law should apply in Florida courts.”

    Sen. Alan Hays and Rep. Larry Metz, Florida Republicans, filed legislation to prevent Islamic law, or any foreign legal code, from being applied in state courts, said.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Would need a lot more facts on this case.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Buck, Correct me if I’m wrong, but the State Bar Association licenses lawyers in U.S and State laws. How can a judge now be qualified in Ecclesiastical Islamic Law?

        • Buck the Wala says:

          SBA only licences you to practice ‘law’ in a given jurisdiction.

          Also, given what LOI added to this issue, not exactly a shining example of encroaching Islamic law…

          • gmanfortruth says:

            I wasn’t imlpying encraoching Islamic law (I’ll leave that to the ladies 🙂 ). I was merely using that as an example of the problems of Multiculturalism. Being it’s a civil case, the judge could have just said try and work it out within our laws, present your decision and we’ll go from there.

    • I think I read on this, the judge explained that under Islamic law, they are supposed to attempt to resolve their differences between themselves first. Compare it to a divorcing couple that works out how to split property before going to court, the judge then just signs off on their agreement.

      When I saw FOX reporting this, I thought they were playing up the Sharia law issue for headline shock.

  6. D13,

    Another great article. You, Jon & GMan make it tough to come up with anything worth wile to comment. Maybe it’s the right minds think alike thing. Oh well, a little humor.


    The train was quite crowded and a U. S. Marine walked the entire length looking for a seat. There seemed to be one next to a well-dressed French woman, but when he got there, he saw it was taken by the woman’s poodle. The war-weary Marine asked, “Ma’am, may I have that seat?”

    The French woman sniffed and said to no one in particular, “Americans are so rude. My precious little Fifi is using that seat.”

    The Marine walked the entire train again, but the only seat available was under that dog. “Please, ma’am. May I sit down? I’m very tired.”

    She snorted, “Not only are you Americans rude, you are also arrogant!”

    This time the Marine didn’t say a word; he just picked up the little dog, tossed it out the train window and sat down.

    The woman shrieked, “Someone defend me! Put this American in his place!”

    An English gentleman sitting nearby spoke up. “Sir, you Americans seem to have a penchant for doing the wrong thing. You hold the fork in the wrong hand. You drive your autos on the wrong side of the road. And now, sir, you seem to have thrown the wrong bitch out the window.

  7. How Long Before Christians Are Actively Persecuted in England?

    I think it would be useful to begin this article with a brief statement of the facts. Eunice and Owen Johns are an elderly couple from Derby, who fostered a number of children in the 1990s, and who recently offered their services again to Derby City Council. Their offer was rejected on the grounds that, as fundamentalist Christians, they might teach any children in their keeping that homosexual acts were sinful. They took legal action against the Council, arguing that their beliefs should not be held against them. On the 28th February 2011, judgment was given against them in the High Court.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      Tricky issue.

      You have the right to raise your own children as you wish. But this is an issue of the government allowing you to raise someone else’s children as foster parents, often against that child’s own parents’ wishes.

      Not so sure where I fall on this.

      • A Puritan Descendant says:

        I don’t think the government gives a *hit about the child’s real parent’s wishes. But they do care about promoting their own agenda, what ever it may be.

  8. Judy Sabatini says:

    When my mother’s parents came from Poland, & lived in New York, they came the legal & right way. They learned how to speak English, but they spoke Polish in their home. Her father worked in what ever job was available at that time, during the 20’s, construction or what ever. Her mother did laundry for people, or cleaned their houses just so they could get enough money to raise 5 girls to be able to feed & clothe them. They didn’t expect to have things conform to their way or expect people to speak Polish. They worked hard to become American citizens & do the best they could with what they had.

    Same for my husbands family that came from Italy. They knew they had to learn to speak English not the other way around. They worked just as hard as everybody else & didn’t expect any hand outs or favors in return. They managed to raise 10 kids on what little they made.

    Now a days, the illegals expect everything to be handed to them on a sliver platter. They expect America to conform to their ways, no the other way around. If we go to any other country, do we not have to learn their language in order to be able to survive? Then why can’t they? I’m not saying all of them are like that, but anymore, it seems to be just most of them think that way. Granted, you want to come here, you’re more than welcome, but please, do it the legal way & don’t force your culture down our throats, & we won’t force ours down yours. I’m tired of all the PC crap & how now some of our ways of life might offend you, but you know what, your ways of life just might be offensive to me as well, but that doesn’t seem to stop you from trying to change America to suit you.

    Just my opinion here.

    Hope all are doing well.

  9. Great article D13. Not much to debate as I agree with your thoughts.

    • BUTLER

      • Couldn’t hold back could you?

      • Noticed Izzo was a commentator for the elite eight games…….

        Always nice to hear the expertise from someone who didn’t make it through the first round!

        • QUIET! I stayed up and watched it..thought about you the whole time! They (badgers) need to work on their jump shots. That 3 that Butler threw in with about 4 minutes left sealed it for them. Thought the badgers were going to pull it off though.Couple more minutes of game time and they may have done it.

          • You stayed up! That is too funny as I went to bed. Was starting to get really PO’d and there are enough other things to get mad about without getting mad at basketball!

            But I did pick Arizona over Duke in my pool so that was a good move.

            Haven’t had an update from you on the schooling thing lately. How’s it going?

            • School is going excellant-ly…must be grammatically correct!

              Grades are darn near perfect. I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT. He knows way more than his (brick & mortar) grades were showing. Makes me feel relieved!

              .My stress level is near zero (as in no calls from school on behavior issues)

              Biggest problem is that the longer we’re doing this the later into the day it seems to take..meaning he’s stalling.

              Still scared I’m not doing something right..(my own indoctrination issues)

              • 😀 😀

                Still do feel a little for the kid to be with Anita 24/7…..

              • anita

                While I know you have to punch the ticket to keep Uncle off your back just remember that in the end it is NOT about his grades.

                It is about what he has learned.

                Also don’t forget that teenagers run on a different biological clock than we do. Most of them run better late into the evening.

              • JAC..much to my amazement I dont have to report to Uncle at all..not ever..not one bit. I have called and recalled and rechecked to make sure. I’m still keeping everything recorded just in case I’ve been mislead. The only rule is that my son will have to be able to test-in to make sure exactly what grade level he is currently at..that’s assuming we would ever consider brick and mortar again. As far as college..ACT/SAT will do the trick. These are Michigan rules.. other states have different rules,

                And yes I’m aware of the teen bioclock..pisses me off! Because pretty soon the kids are off the bus and suddenly its time to book the house! Oh no it’s not sonny! And then the fight starts! But of always wins 🙂

  10. Buck the Wala

    “Buck the Wala Says:
    March 25, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Since when was the American way: “Be like me, a ‘real’ American”?

    That has always been the American way.

    • Buck the Wala says:

      And we are all the worse for it.

      • Based on what criteria??

        Seems to me that you are the one supporting the strong Federal and thus Nation State.

        You want a strong Nation State then you have to accept a unified culture, that includes a primary language. In America that is English, well at least the American version.

        • Buck the Wala says:

          Since when does having a strong federal government mean imposing a unified culture and national language on everyone?

          Am I any less of a ‘real’ American because I do not align myself with your same culture and values? Of course not.

          • Buck

            You avoided the direct question.

            By what criteria do you claim we are all the worse for it?

          • Buck,

            I think the issue is when we are forced to treat their language the same as English. I remember lawsuits requiring ballots to be in Spanish, even though our citizenship requirements are that they speak and read English. Should schools require a second language? What if they only offer one that is different form your background? If your kids are required to learn that language, to me, they are also requiring you to learn part of their culture.

            Maybe the real problem is the ACLU? We must recognize Muslim holidays, but can’t say Merry Christmas.

  11. D13,

    Very good article.

    You embodied and articulated incredibility well the success of multiculturalism and its goals; defined the problems and perversions done in its name; and then went right about justifying those very perversions and problems for you to use to enforce your definition of America on everyone else.

    I cannot think of a better post to magnify the utter contradictions that so many Americans hold about themselves.

    There is no single definition and it is open for interpretation as anyone’s agenda sees fit to use it.

    Ah, which is why I demand others to define their terms.

    We must remember words are tools for communication. They are NOT communication. What one person may use this tool will be different that another.

    If I say “I used a hammer”, it I am probably inferring that I wanted to pound something, like a nail.

    If you use a hammer as a fork, obviously that sentence provides a vastly different understanding.

    Indeed, one must ask “What do YOU mean by “mulit-culturalism?”

    Black Flag proudly points out that Belgium is breaking the record of a country going the longest without a government. What is mentioned in the article, was that the individual communities have actually taken over the duty of large government.

    Proudly? No, factually interesting.

    But this is great – for you are pointing at an event that is unfolding that will give fantastic insight to the methodology and how to avoid pitfalls when the decentralization of the US begins.

    By observing Belgium, we can prepare here.

    The long standoff over a new coalition has even raised fears of a Czechoslovakia-style split

    Interesting word –Fear

    Why is there fear over a split?
    Why is there fear over the way Czechoslovakia split? You do remember they did it peacefully, unlike Yugoslavia!

    Why do we fear peace…. because if we fear peaceful resolution, we will most certainly lead ourselves to violent resolution.

    I personally spent 8 months in the Bosnia/Herzegovina area in 1996 watching the differing cultures practice genocide. This is what I see of multiculturalism

    But why was there such violence?

    Because one side refused to accept the self-determination of other – that they saw their dominance go away; they saw those that a people attempt to stop being the host to parasites.

    So the parasites attacked them.

    In Kuwait and Iraq, the Kurds and the Shiites could not even live together.

    Sure they can! But the Kurds want to live “over here together” and another party that parasites on them does not want that.

    Politics, religion, and cultural differences exist. There are no two ways about it and they are not designed to exist in perpetuity with each other.

    Sure they are! What they are not designed is to be forced to exist like you.

    I can live a lifestyle completely different then you, right next door, and never be in conflict with the way you live.

    But as soon as you demand I have to live like you, You, not me has create the conflict

    multicultural does not mean enclaves within the society you decide to join like Europe is experiencing.

    So you do want a Star Trek world where we are all the Borg.

    When you immigrate to a country……you are joining that country and that society. You obey their rules, their laws, respect their culture and live within it.

    Who says? You?
    Who made you King?

    You accept that culture as your own

    No, I do not have to at all.
    What right do you demand others must live like you?

    If you wish to worship your religion, you are free to do so

    Oh, so thank you for your permission to allow a little bit of freedom! (roll eyes)

    …but you are not free to force your way upon that culture you joined.

    It is you who is doing all the force…..

    You accept our holidays and our traditions.

    ….well demonstrated right there.

    Forced busing and forced integration were two experiments that did not work. As a matter of fact, it is resented by both sides to this very day.

    Precisely. Nobody likes to be forced to do things they do not want to do.

    Yet – you arguing that you have a right to force others to do what you want.

    Then you wonder why the US is in turmoil.

    but cultural differences are not to be forced upon the other…for to do so, creates a greater divide.

    And then you go right about forcing your cultural on others…..
    …You accept our holidays and our traditions….

    We are all Americans and this country has its own culture and its own identity.


    We are English speaking.

    No, we are not.

    I do not want to press 1 for Spanish or 2 for Japanese or 3 for whatever.


    But you do not define “American” either.

    I take personal offense at multicultural signage.

    Tough for you, but what right do you have to demand other people’s sign say what you want??

    Learn English.

    Good advice, if you actually offered it as such

    Too bad you do not advise, but demand by force.

    I wish to celebrate July 4th as our independence day and not have to walk on eggshells because it offends a Muslim or German.

    Then don’t walk on eggshells.

    Celebrate whatever you want whenever.

    But do not confuse this to also mean that others cannot be free to express themselves either.

    D13 has done a brilliant job of highlighting the self-contradictions of the American mind. To be sure, these contradictions also exist in other countries – the demand to be free from other cultural impositions while at the same time forcing their own personal culture on others.

    All evil is created by men trying to manifest a contradiction

    • BF, I don’t necessarily agree with your use of the word “force” as applied here. You say that d13 wishes to force his beliefs on immigrants. I posit that it is much less force than it is expectation.

      For example, if I were to move to a country that I did not speak the language of, I would think that the natives of this country would expect that I learn their language rather than change everything they do to accomodate me. I really don’t think they could force me to learn it, but it would definitely be in my best interest (in my mind at least).

      I expect no less of anyone of a different culture moving to the US. I expect them to learn the language…I am not going to force them to learn it, but it would definitely be in their best interest…in most cases anyway.

      • Terry,

        For example, if I were to move to a country that I did not speak the language of, I would think that the natives of this country would expect that I learn their language rather than change everything they do to accomodate me. I really don’t think they could force me to learn it, but it would definitely be in my best interest (in my mind at least)

        I would agree with your point of view here – however, I did not read this in D13’s post.

    • I think we need your definition of what is means to be American.

      • Anita,

        You are getting good at this! Well done!

        BF’s definition of American

        A man who embodies this statement:
        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

        • Why thank you BF!

          You gave a good start and you know darn well it needs to be expanded. You’ve been to other countries yourself.. wasn’t it on YOU to assimilate to their culture? These days if we don’t accept every immigrant and their culture with them then WE are the ones shunned. Somewhere we went off the track.

          • Anita

            You’ve been to other countries yourself.. wasn’t it on YOU to assimilate to their culture?

            Absolutely not!

            I respected their culture.

            These days if we don’t accept every immigrant and their culture with them then WE are the ones shunned. Somewhere we went off the track.

            We forgot what freedom means

            • You did too! 🙂

              You learned their language.
              You drove on the right side of the road.
              You didn’t demand to hear church bells when services started
              You didnt cry when you couldn’t get time off to come back home to celebrate July 4th…..

              • Anita,

                No, I did not.
                Nothing about my principles changed.

                I respected their right to associate with whom they wished.
                To endear myself to them so that they would associate with me, I learned to communicate with them, and learned what they defined as respect. I have found in my life respecting others gains respect from others

                To avoid dying, I drove safely.

                They never complained about Church bells.

                I took my time off whenever I choose, for my own reasons, and they never questioned me.

              • I give up!

                Sounds like you DID assimilate:

                To endear myself to them so that they would associate with me

              • anita

                The cause for the disagreement is the word “assimilate”.

                He did not “assimilate” but he certainly made accommodations in order to be accepted while visiting.

                The other point missed today is the difference between a visitor and someone who desires to become “part of” a new country.

              • YEAH! What JAC said..

                Welcome back JAC!

              • It was a Kenetic Accommodating Assimilation of Respect

              • ooops


            • From BF: “I respected their culture.”

              BINGO! We have a winner. That is exactly all we want. That is the problem that I see is that our culture is no longer respected, but we are supposed to honor and respect the newcomers culture.

              • Kathy,

                “Your” culture lost respect the day your culture began disrespecting other cultures.

              • Don’t be putting your haughtiness into my words.

                Your little games of semantics aren’t working.

                Respect our culture~!

              • Kathy,

                You demand their respect, but refuse to give respect to theirs.

                Then you complain when they refuse you.

              • No, BF, our culture lost respect the day it lost its foundation, and with it the respect of its own people. We stopped being a free culture, and that made our culture as undefined as “multiculturalism”. It was not our disrespect for other cultures per se, at least not in this arena. Disprespect for Americans and their culture overseas is a response, in part, to our disrespect of their culture. Disrespect here is not. That is a result of corrupting our culture and of putting people in power that did not respect freedom.

      • Anita,

        ….and don’t accept my word on this, either.

        This is what France thought about what it meant to be American:

        “Statue of Liberty Liberty Enlightening the World”,

        • Yeah!

          New way of life!

          • Anita,

            No, a country where men would be free.

            • Which of course would be a new country and a new way of life.

              • JAC,

                From countries of tyranny to a country of freedom, you are correct.

                The that does not mean the the country of freedom imposes some sort of “culture” upon these freedom-seeking men

                They did not come here because the dominate language spoken was English or that people eat hamburgers and watch football.

                They came here to be free.

              • Exactly! You are getting little bits and pieces correct.

                “They came here to be free.”

                BUT, that does not mean they can infringe upon my freedoms, or expect for me to pay for their adaptation process.

                Our local school system, of which I must pay for, has aides for non-English speaking kids now up to, I believe, 4 different languages. One example!

            • BF

              You seem somewhat off point today.

              The point is not what they came for, but what they did once they got here.

              Fact of the matter is that by the time our ancestors were able to articulate what an American was, English had become the national language.

              So those coming here for freedom did not do so BECAUSE our forefathers spoke English. But after they got here they quickly learned the language as best they could.

              They maintained some of their original cultural norms but they also adopted those of their new country. And with time, as the numbers of immigrants increased, parts of their culture became part of the ever changing American Culture. But that still included American-English as the single unifying language.

              • JAC

                The point is not what they came for, but what they did once they got here.


                The point is what they came for – to be free.

                What they did when they got here – act free.

                Fact of the matter is that by the time our ancestors were able to articulate what an American was, English had become the national language.

                So what?

                English is the dominate global language; do you proclaim the entire world now therefore must also follow your football rules?

                But after they got here they quickly learned the language as best they could.

                You are off point today.

                You confuse strategy with a “purpose”.

                It is strategic to be able to communicate with others for you to be able to trade with others.

                They maintained some of their original cultural norms but they also adopted those of their new country.

                Says who!!

                Tell that to the Chinese, or the Irish or the Germans or the Amish, etc. who all set up conclaves of their own cultures – you are claiming these people are not Americans because they do not do what you do???

              • A Puritan Descendant says:

                My own ‘sliver’ of Irish ancestors who arrived in 1864 quickly went to Enfield, Massachusetts, now a drowned Quabbin Reservoir Town. Every document points to them quickly adopting American ways. (how different were their ways anyway?)

                They were Northern Ireland Protestants. One book, states they were NOT your union worker types, but hard working weavers etc who did not complain about work. They seeked it out. They came here to earn a living and did quite well at it. They soon joined the Masonic Lodge. They quickly married into America of which I am living proof.

                No records of any ‘conclaves’ in this branch. Sure, no doubt, they would have friends of their own Irish background, but this did not slow down adoption of ‘American Culture’.
                I think Jac’s take is correct in this specific case.

                The Polish did the same in Western Massachusetts. I married one offspring. Hard working reputations too!

    • Hey BF, how goes it?

      You said: “I cannot think of a better post to magnify the utter contradictions that so many Americans hold about themselves.”

      D13 says: Take out the word Americans and insert “all of the people of earth” and you have the point I was trying to make. It is not restricted to Americans…it was my example. It is to all people everywhere beause they are the same.

      BF correctly states: “I can live a lifestyle completely different then you, right next door, and never be in conflict with the way you live.”

      D13 states: This is true until you go to the school that my child goes to and expect accomodation to your religion or customs or whatever. The minute you do that…under your rules….you have just inflicted violence upon me. Correct?

      BF quotes and says: “When you immigrate to a country……you are joining that country and that society. You obey their rules, their laws, respect their culture and live within it.

      Who says? You?
      Who made you King?

      D13 says: ” I expect you to respect my country and culture and live within it.” It has nothing to with being KING….it has everything to do with respect. The same way you did in a host country. Despite what you say here, I know you well enough that you did not disrespect your host countries traditions and culture nor did you try to force yours on theirs. Your values and your morals would not allow that.

      BF states: “It is you who is doing all the force…..

      You accept our holidays and our traditions.

      ….well demonstrated right there.

      D13 responds: Come on BF, you know good and well what I meant here. As an immigrant, I expect you accept our holidays and traditions. Not as your own….but accept them as OURS. You do not, nor have the right, to disrespect our holidays and traditions and insisit that they be changed because they conflict with yours. NOr did my meaning expect you to observe them.

      BF asserts: “I take personal offense at multicultural signage.

      Tough for you, but what right do you have to demand other people’s sign say what you want??

      Learn English.

      D13 says: YOu know good and well what I meant here as well, kind sir. NOWHERE did I say it must be changed… I said that I take personal offense. But you made my point by saying “Learn English” and that is what I am saying….Learn English.

      BF quotes: “All evil is created by men trying to manifest a contradiction”

      D13 asserts: The whole world is this way. It is time to be us…and not care what the whole world thinks. I do not.

      • D13

        Hey BF, how goes it?

        Good to better!

        D13 says: Take out the word Americans and insert “all of the people of earth” and you have the point I was trying to make

        Yeah, it is a global problem, no doubt.

        That’s a common problem: – sometimes to avoid when we see tyranny happening somewhere else, the People here invoke tyranny to protect themselves from what they see.

        D13 states: This is true until you go to the school that my child goes to and expect accomodation to your religion or customs or whatever.

        I expect no accommodation at all, and neither do immigrants.

        But government sure does, but what do you expect from a government run school?

        Do you understand why government does this?

        The minute you do that…under your rules….you have just inflicted violence upon me. Correct?

        No, because the school is not yours or theirs – it is the governments.

        Make sure you are more accurate in point your rifle – you may be pointing at the innocent instead of the culprit.

        I know you well enough that you did not disrespect your host countries traditions and culture nor did you try to force yours on theirs. Your values and your morals would not allow that.

        The point of my complaint was not regarding “respect” – you are correct here – but this:
        …you are joining that country and that society. You obey their rules, their laws,…

        No, not necessarily.

        Respect their culture, yes.
        Obey their “rules”, not necessarily.

        D13 responds: Come on BF, you know good and well what I meant here. As an immigrant, I expect you accept our holidays and traditions. Not as your own….but accept them as OURS.

        They do that already!

        I know of no immigrant that isn’t happy to get a day off for Xmas, even if they don’t “believe” in it.

        I love getting Jewish holidays off, and I am not Jewish! 🙂

        Tough for you, but what right do you have to demand other people’s sign say what you want??

        Learn English.

        You have no right and no say to what I put on MY sign.

        Go make your own signs.

        BF quotes: “All evil is created by men trying to manifest a contradiction”

        D13 asserts: The whole world is this way. It is time to be us…and not care what the whole world thinks. I do not.

        “All evil is created by men trying to manifest a contradiction” – and even if the whole world tries, does not change this.

  12. D13,
    I agreed with the bulk of your article, it makes good points: the problems of how we are functioning as a society and the utter failure of the PC movement and the artificial attempts at equality, especially through bashing the successful to try to elevate the less successful. This is always the path to lowest common denominator, which, in humanity, is pretty friggin low. Perhaps most striking is the lack of real definition of multicutluralism. This allows for a host of abuses. It can be warped to mean whatever so that it cannot be criticized and it can be morphed into whatever the power takers desire to fit what they want and have it be free of criticism.

    The only thing is, you lose me with the whole “I don’t want to press 1 for English” thing. I do not care if I have to press 1 for English. If I am working with a company that is willing and finds it profitable to have multiple language options, then I either deal with pressing 1 or I find another company. Whining about it is pointless.

    Now, granted, it is a problem when it is a government office, and it is a problem when it is done by companies because of PC crap and pressure, rather than for financial reasons. Remember, the early days of immigration, there was no English requirement, and there were whole communities of people who stuck with those from their own culture. They were not caterred to, and so they learned. We do not need to make a fuss about pressing 1 for english, in fact, it is pretty lousy of the average American to be so illiterate with languages. What we need to do is eliminate the additional cost on taxpayers of catering to non-english, minority, and non-citizens. We do that, the rest will take care of itself. If the future, even after the removal of government catering to non-english people involves a lot of languages still being spoken here and companies catering to that because it is good business, then maybe you just need to deal with it.

  13. D13thecolonel:

    Re: “This is not a Star Trek world. it will never be a Star Trek World and should not be. ”

    Maybe so, but then maybe it will.
    It should be, but it is not certain it ever will be.

  14. Kathy,

    BUT, that does not mean they can infringe upon my freedoms, or expect for me to pay for their adaptation process.

    Our local school system, of which I must pay for, has aides for non-English speaking kids now up to, I believe, 4 different languages. One example!


    You complain that they are infringing on your freedoms because the government is infringing on your to steal your money.

    SO you blame the immigrant for such a theft by government.

    You then send your kids to the government school to be taught by that government that its theft is ok.

    Your complaint about all of this:
    They are teaching your kids that theft is ok in 4 different languages instead of one.

    • I’m not in the mood for you today.

      Adapt! Assimilate! Respect!

      • Kathy,

        Adapt! Sure – good strategy!
        Assimilate! Sure – if you’re an insect or the Borg
        Respect! Sure – but you have to give it first~!

        • BF

          Regarding this issue of “respect” it seems to me you have normal and traditional human behavior reversed.

          Normally the host displays hospitality towards the guest or newcomer. The guest then shows the respect towards the host. The host then shows respect towards the guest.

          It seems you are asking that the host go out of their way to show respect towards the guest that goes beyond that normally afforded by human nature.

          • Kathy,
            It seems you are asking that the host go out of their way to show respect towards the guest that goes beyond that normally afforded by human nature.

            Nope. Nothing necessary either way.

  15. JAC

    .. but they also adopted those of their new country.

    So how much of what part of the “American” culture do you think an immigrant needs to adopt before you say he is now an “American”?

    How much English does he need to know before you “declare” him American? Enough to find the bathroom? Or enough to teach a course on quantum physics?

    If he comes from another country that speaks English, do you immediately claim him now “American” the moment he steps off the plane from India?

    How many McDonald’s hamburgers does he need to eat before you think he is an American?

    I cannot fathom what measure you have or how you could even measure it.

    • BF

      re: “So how much of what part of the “American” culture do you think an immigrant needs to adopt before you say he is now an “American”?”

      I suggest you point your “projector” at a more suitable target.

    • BF

      OK, to shorten this side trip let me answer directly.

      In addition to learning English they must adopt the basic American values. They are not REAL Americans until they embody the concept:

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


  16. Black Flag

    Re: “Says who!!”

    Well aside from historians how about we use REALITY as our guide.

    • JAC,

      So I can’t imagine what you will say about the millions of people who are American who don’t speak a spit of English.

      • BF

        For crying out loud, stay on the topic at hand. This was about culture in the general sense not language.

        Your comment was in regard to my comment about the two way effect of culture. On the immigrant and on the nation.

        You dispute this claim apparently. But the fact is part of history. It is supported by reality of the American experience up until recent times.

        It does not mean that groups do not segregate or at least congregate among themselves. It simply means that they adopt some of the new culture and some of their culture is assimilated into the national culture.

        This has been the way it was in the USA. This is the assimilation process we all refer to as being American in its nature.

        So as I said, according to historians and reality.

        • JAC,

          This was about culture in the general sense not language.

          Excellent! We are making progress.

          So no more crap about “English” is “American culture”.

          This has been the way it was in the USA. This is the assimilation process we all refer to as being American in its nature.

          No, being American has nothing to do with “assimilation” at all.

          Again, you muddle strategy with purpose

          • BF

            I am not muddling anything.

            I said, this is the assimilation process we refer to as American in its nature. In other words, this is what we call that thing that actually happened in our history.

            I did not say this is what it takes to be an American nor did I project any motive on the players. I could care less about your strategy vs. purpose as it has nothing to do with my commentary.

            You keep trying to find an argument where none exists.

            So lets cut to the real chase.

            American the idea vs American the Citizen of the USA.

            Imposing a culture via normal acculturation processes vs. using Govt to impose or prevent normal acculturation processes.

            I see these two broad sets of issues as the underlying cause for most folks concerns and much of the arguments presented today.

            There is also the underlying issue of the existence of the Nation State. This thing exists in reality and is the dominant form of cultural identification today. So it is hard to argue concepts when dealing with someone who is thinking Nationaly not conceptually.

            • JAC,

              So do you think the Native Indians who are Americans (and citizens) who also claim a different Nation are not Americans because they have a different culture and a different nation?

              • BF

                The Natives were not originally Americans……the concept.

                The Natives were granted American status…..citizens of a State.

                The Native Nation is a FARCE……………the remnant of a clash between two separate cultures and granted by the victor in order to reduce the guilt of conquest. The Natives are “wards of the state” to this day.

                I think the history and current status of the Indians is emblematic of the clash between the idea of America and the reality of America as a Nation State.

                And of course, we know which one has prevailed.

              • JAC,

                So short – form:

                You believe “culture” is defined by the government?

              • BF


                And I can’t even pretend to understand how you reached that conclusion.

                Either my tongue is tied or your eyes are fuzzy, or both.

                I was simply trying to point out why discussions of culture can become so frustrating due to the influence of these other concepts that are intertwined in the definition of culture itself.

                For example, I think most people would have absolutely no problem with immigrants who kept to themselves and did not adopt our cultural values. We all know that most immigrants would not do this or at least it wouldn’t last for more than a generation.

                The reason it is an issue is because one group decided to use the power of Govt to intervene in the normal acculturation process. Taking tax money to support bi-lingual programs for example. As you pointed out earlier regarding teaching theft in multiple languages.

                The concern is that this interference will result in a divided nation. The Balkanization of the USA if you will. But here again this is only a concern because of the existence of the Nation State itself. It would not endanger America the Idea but it could destabilize America the Nation State.

                So in essence the outcry you see from Americans is a concern for the State itself, but most of us don’t recognize that as our concern. Thanks to our long history of indoctrination, most of us don’t recognize a difference between the two.

                There is no doubt that a Nation State with a single national language has an advantage over one with segregated and distinctly different sub-populations. History has shown this to be true. But if America the idea is to survive we need to make sure that such a goal is achieved voluntarily and not by use of govt force.

                At the same time we need to make sure Govt force is not used to prevent this from occurring naturally.

                Besides, this wouldn’t even be an issue today if we had just kept Mexico when we had a chance. Bwahahahahaha

              • JAC,

                Now you’ve got it right.

              • BF

                I had it right all along.

                You finally heard it correctly.


  17. Thak you Jon…but I am misunderstood sort of…….

    I, personally, do not want to press 1 for English…etc. However, my meaning was in the administrative government sense. I have no problems with private companies being multi-language. I speak three very fluently. That is my choice. Multiculturalism is not working in Europe and is not working here. My whole point, is that, unlike BF, I expect immigrants to accept the country they go to whether here or elsewhere. It is not morally nor ethically correct, in my opinion, to force your culture upon the culture you just moved into. BF has no right to go to…say Saudi Arabia…and then demand that they chenge their way of life to suit him because he is a “free” man. That is not freedom at all. You used the term catering to….I can buy that one. But, even though English is not an officially designated language…it is the language of the United States no matter what spin you put on it. To come here and expect to be catered to because you are from somewhere else is wrong. Flat out wrong….and what is worse…we do it.

    Like BF, I went to many countries but I did not demand anything from them in the form of recognition nor did I try to change their rules, their food, their education, or try to force them to accept me. It would be worng to do that. I did not expect them to talk to me in English…I did the best I could with their language.

    My whole point…..this is America. We have our customs and we have our laws. Accept it or leave. Do not insist upon recognition of your visiting culture. We will respect it but you have no place to expect special accomodation because of it.

    • D13,

      Multiculturalism is not working in Europe and is not working here.

      …because it suffers from the same problem as it does here – do not impose your culture on me, but I most certainly will impose my culture on you

      My whole point, is that, unlike BF, I expect immigrants to accept the country they go to whether here or elsewhere.

      They do accept it – but it is you who does not accept theirs (and ironically, yours either).

      It is not morally nor ethically correct, in my opinion, to force your culture upon the culture you just moved into.

      You err here.

      Please note my correction:
      It is not morally nor ethically correct to force your culture upon another culture

      BF has no right to go to…say Saudi Arabia…and then demand that they chenge their way of life to suit him because he is a “free” man.

      ….because when I am there, I do not need any man in Saudi Arabia to change for me to be a free man.

      To come here and expect to be catered to because you are from somewhere else is wrong. Flat out wrong….and what is worse…we do it.

      Not one bit.

      But if my goal is to trade for your money, I will make it easy for me to trade for y our money.

      If that means I think I should learn your language, then that is a good strategy. Easier to bargain when you understand each other.

      So if that means I am in Texas, I will put up signs in Spanish, so that my Spanish customers whose money I desire can understand the bargins I offer.

      This has zippo to do with English as being American culture – your claim is bogus.

      My whole point…..this is America. We have our customs and we have our laws. Accept it or leave.

      No, you have your customs – and you believe you define American.

      What bugs you is others define themselves as American too – with different customs then yours.

      You think they are wrong and you are right.

      The problem: You have no idea what “a REAL American” means.

      • No, I think you still do not get what D13 is saying. He is not, as you blatantly assume, bothered that someone calling themselves American is different from him. If, in fact, he is bothered by this, and there is some indication he might be in his post, he is not advocating use of force to keep them from being different.

        He, and I, are complaining about the USE OF FORCE to enforce some sort of acceptance of other cultures. Government takes on a lot of costs offerring things in minority languages. I do not see why this is necessary. At the embassy, maybe, but not at the local DMV or County Real Estate office. I can see it in court to make sure people understand what legal proceedings are happening, but not on every traffic sign in the country.

        More importantly, regulations on hiring practices, holidays, etc. to cater to a certain culture is none of the government’s business. that is for the market to decide. If a company says press 1 for english, fine. If they say this because they are deemed “essential” by some beurocrat and are required to have multi-language options, then that is a problem.

  18. Call out to DisplacedCaribouUnit (sorry if I messed up your name)!

    What is going on up there? We have no confidence in our government either. How do we go about taking this vote here?

    Canada government defeated in non-confidence vote

    • DisposableCarbonUnit says:

      You can’t.

      This is a lot of blustering by all the politicians.

      They will spend $300 million on an election and the end result will be……wait for it……exactly the same!

      A minority conservative government. Which means the government CAN’T actually do anything.

      We’ve had this for 5 years now and Canada is actually doing pretty good economically.

      Take home message is……Don’t let the government have an real power. We Canadians learned it and have repeated it 3 elections in a row. Now taxes are going DOWN go figure!

  19. 😐

  20. gmanfortruth says:

    I sure missed alot, but had some work to get done outdoors. D13, Good article, it certainly spawned some interesting debate. LOI, you covered for me perfectly, I would have sat on the sidelines and let everyone duke it out as well. 🙂

    I think we do have some problems with our country as far as a new era of immigrants are entering to become legal citizens. That’s fine and dandy, welcome to America. I think if I had some advice to them, it would be simple, please learn some English, even if it’s broken, it’s better than nothing. It is their choice to do so. But in times of natural disasters, regular business ventures, it would make their lives easier, and may save lives as well. More in a few minutes.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Now, as far as the D13’s article, I see how it appears that many immigrant types are basically demanding that Americans adapt to their beliefs. Maybe the cause of this could be based on what some Americans themselves have done, namely some athiests that had some high profile court cases about prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on government property, the use of God in over American traditions, such as the Pledge of Allegiance.

      Ultimately, government seems to be the real problem. Judges are now activist judges who act upon their political beliefs rather than the rule of law. This is no more clearer than in the Supreme Court, who often are split in their decisions, mostly based on Conservative or Liberal ideologies. We are divided politically, left and right, so who ever is in charge of any community, will make decisions accordingly. This then empowers immigrant minorities to demand things that they aren’t necessarily entitled too, and activist judges give it to them.

    • On American culture (true story)

      My father-in-law lives in the country. One time my boys spent the night and he taught them it was OK to pee off the back porch. Then they came home. Fenced back yard, no neighbors behind us, one decided to step out an relieve himself. Mamma says you can do that at Grandpa’s, but not here. Different rules for when in the city and the country.

  21. gmanfortruth says:


    Tony had just finished reading a new book entitled,
    ‘You Can Be THE Man of Your House.’

    He stormed to his wife in the kitchen and announced,
    ‘From now on, you need to know that I am the man of this house and my word is Law.
    You will prepare me a gourmet meal tonight, and when I’m finished eating my meal,
    You will serve me a sumptuous dessert. After dinner, you are going to go upstairs
    With me and we will have the kind of sex that I want.
    Afterwards, you are going to draw me a bath so I can relax.
    You will wash my back and towel me dry and bring me my robe. Then, you will massage my feet and hands.
    Then tomorrow, guess who’s going to dress me and comb my hair?’

    His Sicilian wife Gina replied, ‘The fuckin’ funeral director would be my first guess.

    • A Puritan Descendant says:

      I’ve seen enough ‘Italian movies’ on tv to know where this was headed just after “He stormed to his wife”! LOL

  22. There is another factor that needs to be considered in this discussion of multiculturism.

    We need to be careful to separate the attitudes of the immigrant from those of special interest groups who are trying to use the immigrant for their own goals.

    Especially as it relates to Mexico and the “hispanic” immigrant.

    I know many naturalized citizens, from Mexico, who were outraged by the marchers displaying Mexican Flags when marching to relax immigration laws a few years ago.

    Teaching everyone English will not eliminate these nefarious Political Groups nor dissuade them of pursuing their agenda.

    And attacking immigrants in general will do nothing but strengthen these groups as the new “hispanic” population begins to feel victimized. Why do you think so many groups are crying racist over the immigration law debates?

    It helps them maintain control by instilling fear in those we are unable to communicate with effectively.

  23. D13 et al.

    Wanted to make some comments about the article or the subject matter at least.

    First, it is interesting that some of the supposed “definitions” of multiculturism seem in conflict with each other. At least one seems completely contrived to rationalize some perceived need for immigration.

    Second, the concept relative to maintaining separate ethnic or “cultural” populations within a nation is counter to maintaining the most productive nation possible. However, one then must address the question as to whether the nation state itself is desirable.

    When we assume the definition we have accepted the premise that the State is needed without discussion or debate. See the following:

    (7) multiculturalism is regarded as a well intended but illusory concept which overlooks the necessity for a common culture, language, and identification to enable societal and state integration and stability.

    Notice that societal and state are linked. But is a common culture, language and identification needed for societal integration and stability if the Nation State is eliminated.

    Or if the Nation State is based on the principles of freedom, liberty and justice?

    Third, I would like to ask the Colonel, and others, exactly what it is that they think in our culture is under attack and whom they think is attacking it.

    Because of the language issue raised the entire day was spent discussing “immigrants” and their culture vs our culture. But is it really the immigrants who are the problem? Certain immigrants? Or is it really somebody else?

    Just some thoughts for you to ponder. I am curious though what you all think.

    • gmanfortruth says:


      Hope you and the family are well today 🙂

      You asked: Third, I would like to ask the Colonel, and others, exactly what it is that they think in our culture is under attack and whom they think is attacking it.

      THis is the most important question, IMHO. I was raised in a Christian based country, where we Pledged Allegience, prayed, wished others Merry Christmas ect. Most of that has been under attack, but not by immigrants. I’ll just put it succinctly as possible. All this political correctness and Liberal/progressive agenda bullshit, and, the entire corrupt government, and the global elitist one world government mentallity, and stupid people who don’t see this are responsible for the attacks and the current division of our nation. How’s that?

      • gmanfortruth says:

        I would like to add one thing. I believe the government and the media are using immigration as another seed to divide this country. The Federal government has failed to ensure our immigration was as it was for the first 200 years or so, which is why we have the issues with Mexican immigrants in the Southwest. Totally planned, if you ask me, and they have no intention of changing anything. The States are on their own. IMHO, the Federal government needs to be completely purged. All of them out, let the States handle their own business.

    • Hey JAC……the actualpoint of the article sorta got hijacked to the language issue. My point, Europe is denouncing multiculturalism because the identity of their own country is being lost. They are referring specifically to the Muslim immigrant in Gernamy, Spain, England, and now Italy. I do not care which it is. It is not morally right for a person from Mars to have a different definition od Freedom than a Venusian and then move to Venus and say I am free because my definition does not fit yours…..if you go to Venus, I woud expect you to abide their rues, their laws, and their customs. Anything else is unethical.

      However, for any country to lose its identity and have its customs and culture attacked fpr whatever reason…is simply not right. That is all.

      • d13

        Believe it or not, I got that as the point of your article.

        I just chased the black rabbit cause I was feelin ornory after spendin three days among the leftist elite.

        That is why I asked who, if anyone, you see as such a threat here. I’m with Gman on this one. I see the threat from internal groups who try to use this as some wedge issue to divide the “group” from the rest of us.

        While I agree in general that the martians must abide by our customs, at least until we decide which of theirs we wish to adopt, I also wonder just which “customs” are really worth protecting in a free society.

        In other words, I don’t give a lick about them bitching about Christmas vacation. But I got a real problem with them trying to impede my freedom.

        Of course there is that little issue of them breaking our laws to be here in the first place.

    • JAC…sorry..forgot to answer your question.

      You asked: “they think in our culture is under attack and whom they think is attacking it.”

      D13 says: My article was to point out that the multiculturalism aspect is a bastard child of political correctness and that forcing acceptance on the basis it might “OFFEND” someone is ludicrous.

      Are immigrants the problem? Yes and then again no. Immigrants coming to America and settle in to our lifestyle..,Welcome..provided you do it legally. However, this is America…it is not wherever they came from. Live with us and follow our rules, regulations, laws, and respect.

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Colonel, Question Sir, Maybe more than one. Did you happen to read my article about inpeaching Obama? Do you agree? If yes to both I would like to present another question about our miltary.

      • d13

        I am not sure I agree with your connection to Political correctness. I agree they are connected but not that PC is the primary culprit. I think it is also just a tool.

        But for the life of me I can’t think of the label I want to give the underlying problem. You know, the one that created the entire PC thing.

        • gmanfortruth says:

          Underlying problem = Globalism. The push for a one world currency. There is no other need to divide as they have done.

          • gman

            I don’t think so. The goal and the method don’t match up.

            Division would help, but PC and multi-culturism create a different kind of division.

            The Economic Class Warfare fits better as a tool of globalism in my view.

            • gmanfortruth says:

              Wouldn’t multiple distractions and divisions be the goal of those who want power? The Globalists control all aspects of media and government, they can use numerous methods of distraction, so very few can see what is really happening, the puposeful devauluation of the dollar through massive money printing, that, by the way, has not hit the people , YET. The key to there plans will come when then vast dollars become available to the public, be it in the form of loans or stimulus, when this occurs, all will be happy, for a short time, then BOOM! They need a trigger, there is little loaning going on, this will change, if a stimulus is coupled with it, the trillions that are held up by the banks will be circulated. End of the dollar, beginning of the new world currency.

  24. Great article D13-couldn’t agree more.

    Couple of points-immigrants come here to be free-I find that to be a dangerous assumption-one we simply can’t be sure of anymore. A large enough percentage of immigrants in European countries don’t seem the least bit interested in freedom-makes that assumption very questionable.

    The discussion of the American idea and the Nation State is interesting -but seems to be moot when discussing the possible long term effects to our society of European style multiculturalism-when we obviously have a nation state.

    • V.H.

      It may be moot with respect to where we are today, but NOT to where we want to go in the future.

      In fact it was a major consideration by our forefathers when they debated the nature of government for our new nation. That is why the State’s sovereign status was viewed so critical to the long term existence of the Republic. Even in those days there were distinct “cultures” within the USA. Many thought it unreasonable to expect a single nation to survive if divided by groups, but equally unreasonable to expect all groups to simply coexist without fighting for control.

      The States afforded an opportunity for various groups to peacefully exist separately yet maintain the prosperity and safety of a larger Nation State, as long as they shared certain broader goals and values among the various States.

      We sometimes forget this important concept was considered in our founding. It may once again rise in its importance as we look to the near future.

    • I agree, VH, many may not come here for freedom. That, however, is a failing on our part. The fix is simple. Offer only freedom. If you come for anything else, well, you came to the wrong place.

  25. Black Flag

    You have stated several times today that the immigrant does not have to respect our culture because we do not respect the culture of the immigrant. We must show respect first in order to earn their respect.

    I ask you, just which immigrant’s culture is is that we disrespect and exactly how do we show this disrespect towards the immigrant?

    Are you saying that simply telling them they need to learn English is disrespecting their culture? Or that having a debate about illegal immigration is somehow disrespecting their culture? Seems to me that would be over reacting if this is the assumption.

    If someone comes here seeking a better life then how is it disrespectful to tell them that we expect them to learn our language and to respect our laws and customs? Certainly they know they are moving to a country with different laws and customs than the one they are leaving. So would they not expect to have to learn the language and make other adjustments?

    • Agreed JAC
      You cannot come to a place seeking its advantages, and then demand that the place operate as if you were back home, but still have the advantages. You cannot see an inventor with an incredible product and say “ok, acheive those results, but do it the same way everyone else does because I dont like any new ideas”. Such an attitude is preposterous. Not to say that American culture is the key to success and freedom, it is the freedom itself that is key, but many aspects of early (not current) American culture were a part of that freedom. And many immigrants that resisted the culture soon discovered that the things they were hanging on to were part of the problem. It is not about demanding assimilation, it is about being indifferent to cultures that are not free. They can come here, but they will get nothing if they do not embrace the freedom. Where we lost our way was really when we began to not be free.

    • Thank you JAC, for your voice of sanity and stating it clearly!

  26. Off topic-hope you don’t mind D13-I keep waiting for an open mic day-but we don’t seem to be having them anymore-I occasionally find an article I just really want people to read. I think this one is really Neat 🙂

    Genius at work: 12-year-old is studying at IUPUI
    11:32 PM, Mar. 19, 2011 |
    Dan McFeely

    Jake taught himself algebra, geometry, trigonometry and calculus in 2 weeks.

    He’s studying physics at IUPUI.

    He’s 12.

    He can solve pi to 200 digits.

    When Jacob Barnett first learned about the Schrödinger equation for quantum mechanics, he could hardly contain himself.

    For three straight days, his little brain buzzed with mathematical functions.

    From within his 12-year-old, mildly autistic mind, there gradually flowed long strings of pluses, minuses, funky letters and upside-down triangles — a tapestry of complicated symbols that few can understand.

    He grabbed his pencil and filled every sheet of paper before grabbing a marker and filling up a dry erase board that hangs in his bedroom. With a single-minded obsession, he kept on, eventually marking up every window in the home.

    Strange, say some.

    Genius, say others.

    But entirely normal for Jacob, a child prodigy who used to crunch his cereal while calculating the volume of the cereal box in his head.

    “Whenever I try talking about math with anyone in my family,” he said, “they just stare blankly.”

    So do many of his older classmates at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, who marvel at seeing this scrawny little kid in the front row of the calculus-based physics class he has been taking this semester.

    “When I first walked in and saw him, I thought, ‘Oh my God, I’m going to school with Doogie Howser,’ ” said Wanda Anderson, a biochemistry major, referring to a television show that featured a 16-year-old boy-genius physician.

    Elementary school couldn’t keep Jacob interested. And courses at IUPUI have only served to awaken a sleeping giant.

    Just a few weeks shy of his 13th birthday, Jake, as he’s often called, is starting to move beyond the level of what his professors can teach.

    In fact, his work is so strong and his ideas so original that he’s being courted by a top-notch East Coast research center. IUPUI is interested in him moving from the classroom into a funded researcher’s position.

    “We have told him that after this semester . . . enough of the book work. You are here to do some science,” said IUPUI physics Professor John Ross, who vows to help find some grant funding to support Jake and his work.

    “If we can get all of those creative juices in a certain direction, we might be able to see some really amazing stuff down the road.”
    “My fear was that he would never be in our world”

    Teenage college student?

    Developer of his own original theory on quantum physics?

    Paid researcher at 13?

    This is not what Jake’s parents expected from a child whose first few years were spent in silence.

    “Oh my gosh, when he was 2, my fear was that he would never be in our world at all,” said Kristine Barnett, 36, Jake’s mother.

    “He would not talk to anyone. He would not even look at us.”

    Child psychologists assessed Jake at the time and diagnosed behavioral characteristics of a borderline autistic child. He was impaired, they said, and had a lack of “spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment,” difficulty showing emotion and interacting with others.

    Diagnosis: mildly autistic.

    “My biggest fear,” his mom said last week, with tears welling up in her eyes, “was that he had lost the ability to say, ‘I love you’ to us.”

    By age 3, Jake was the focus of a more intense evaluation from a team of psychologists, therapists and a diagnostic teacher.

    Their report indicated that while Jake continued to struggle with social activities and physical development, he was showing signs of academic skills that were above his age level.

    Diagnosis: Asperger’s syndrome, a somewhat milder condition related to autism.

    After hearing this, Jake’s parents decided to pay closer attention to the things their first-born son was doing — rather than the things he was not.

    For example, Jake often recited the alphabet — forward and then backward. He used Q-tips to create vivid geometrical shapes on the living room floor. He solved 5,000-piece puzzles (rather quickly). And he once soaked in a state road map and ended up memorizing every highway and license plate prefix.

    And perhaps most amazingly, he could recite the mathematical constant pi out to 70 digits.

    “I’m at 98 now,” Jake said, interrupting his mom during an interview.

    And then, a week later, he was up to 200 digits after the decimal point — forward and backward.
    At 3, his head was in the stars

    The Barnetts decided it was time to follow Jake’s lead, adopting a method that some parents of children with autism use — floor-time therapy — to help foster developmental growth. They let their children focus intently on subjects they like, rather than trying to conform them to “normal” things.

    For Jake, that meant astronomy. As a 3-year-old, he loved looking at a book about stars, over and over again.

    So off they went on a tour of the Holcomb Observatory and Planetarium at Butler University.

    Kristine Barnett will never forget the day.

    “We were in the crowd, just sitting, listening to this guy ask the crowd if anyone knew why the moons going around Mars were potato-shaped and not round,” she recalls. “Jacob raised his hand and said, ‘Excuse me, but what are the sizes of the moons around Mars?’ ”

    The lecturer answered, and “Jacob looked at him and said the gravity of the planet . . . is so large that (the moon’s) gravity would not be able to pull it into a round shape.”


    “That entire building . . . everyone was just looking at him, like, ‘Who is this 3-year-old?’ ”

    After that, the Barnetts began to feed Jake’s hunger for knowledge, through more books and more visits to the planetarium. By the time he was 8, he got permission to sit in on an advanced astronomy class at IUPUI.

    Meanwhile, his math skills were reaching astronomical levels.

    By the time he was in fifth grade, Jake had become bored with elementary math. He was a student, first at Carey Ridge Elementary School and then at Westfield Intermediate School, an experience he now says he enjoyed for a while.

    “The first couple of years were great, but then eventually the math started being, like, OK, we’ve been discussing this for a while, and it really isn’t that hard,” Jake said. “Can I move on to calculus now? Can I move on to algebra now?”

    The boredom did not go unnoticed at home. Jake was coming home from school quiet, huddling in a safe space in the house and starting to show signs of withdrawing.

    “I was really afraid we were going to lose him back into the world he was in when he was 2,” his mom said.

    Frank Lawlis, a Texas-based psychologist who serves as a testing supervisor for the American Mensa organization — a society for geniuses — said it would not have been unusual for a child with symptoms of autism to regress backward after a brief time of growth.

    “One of the aspects of autism is that these kids’ brains grow at an accelerated rate and then, generally speaking, there is kind of a reversal that happens,” said Lawlis, who last year wrote “The Autism Answer,” a book for parents of children with autism.

    “The theory is that the brain reaches a certain capacity, can’t grow, becomes inflamed, and then a reversal effect occurs. It’s just a theory, but it’s very common.”

    That did not happen to Jake, thanks in part to a third psychological evaluation done nearly two years ago. It showed that this fifth-grader was not regressing but was simply bored and needed to be stimulated — in a very big way.

    As in dropping out of school.

    “Indeed, it would not be in Jacob’s best interest to force him to complete academic work that he has already mastered,” clinical neurophysiologist Carl S. Hale, Merrillville, said in a report provided by the Barnetts.

    “He needs work at an instructional level, which currently is a post college graduate level in mathematics, i.e., a post master’s degree. In essence, his math skills are at the level found in someone who is working on a doctorate in math, physics, astronomy and astrophysics.”

    The Barnetts were blown away. They knew Jake was smart, but doctorate-level smart?

    “I flunked math,” Kristine said with a laugh. “I know this did not come from me.”
    Off to college, where he tutors classmates

    Encouraged by this new assessment, the Barnetts made the tough decision to pull Jake out of Westfield Washington Schools and enroll him in IUPUI’s early college entrance program that caters to gifted and talented kids — although typically they are advanced high school students, not 12-year-old whiz kids.

    As he prepared for the more rigorous work of a college class, Jake decided he ought to make sure he could master all high school-level math that would be required in college.

    “In one two-week period, he sat on our front porch and learned all of his high school math,” Kristine said. “He tested out of algebra 1 and 2, geometry, trigonometry and calculus.”

    At this point, Jake’s math IQ — which has been measured at 170 (top of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) — could not get any higher.

    “You could tell right off the bat, his performance has been outstanding,” said Ross, who, at age 46 with a Ph.D. from Boston University, has never seen a kid as smart as Jake.

    “When he asks a question, he is always two steps ahead of the lecture,” Ross said. “Everyone in the class gets quiet. Poor kid. . . . He sits right in the front row, and they all just look at him.

    “He will come to see me during office hours and ask even more detailed questions. And you can tell he’s been thinking these things through.”

    Jake is driven by Mom or Dad from his home in Hamilton County to IUPUI’s campus, where he attends classes a few days each week. In between classes, he spends time at the Honors College lounge, where he has become a go-to guy for much older classmates needing tutoring.

    “A lot of people come to him for help when they don’t understand a physics problem,” said Anderson, his class partner. “People come up to him all the time and say, ‘Hey Jake, can you help me?’ ”

    “A lot of people think a genius is hard to talk to, but Jake explains things that would still be over their head.”

    His professor has noticed.

    “Is he a genius? Well, yeah,” Ross said. “Kids his age would normally have problems adding fractions, and he is helping out some of his fellow students.”

    If Jake stays on track, Ross could see him working someday at a government lab or an observatory. Maybe he’ll be a professor or a highly respected researcher.

    “He can do anything he wants.”
    A normal boy, except for the numbers

    Despite this new experience, his parents insist that Jake remain close with his friends in Westfield. Social activity is important, they know.

    For Jake, life is not all centered on math and astrophysics.

    He also likes playing video games. (“Guitar Hero” and “Halo: Reach” are his current favorites.) He plays basketball with friends, has a girlfriend and recently attended his first dance.

    He likes music — classical, which he plays by memory on a piano, but he also plays some contemporary songs he hears on the radio. He loves sci-fi movies and the Disney Channel. He watches documentaries on the History Channel.

    A normal kid.

    But then, late at night, when the TV is off, the homework is done and everyone in the house is sleeping, the numbers start to percolate again.

    They percolate so much that he has trouble sleeping. His parents got so worried a few years ago that they took him for medical tests, but no malady was diagnosed. He just can’t fall asleep easily.

    “A lot keeps me awake,” Jake said. “I scare people.”

    The numbers that keep him from snoozing are the same that led him to develop his own theory of physics — an original work that proposed a “new expanded theory of relativity” and takes what Einstein developed even further.

    His mom, still not sure whether her son was truly a genius at work or a kid at play, decided to send a video of Jake explaining his theory to the prestigious Institute for Advanced Study near Princeton University, one of the world’s leading centers for theoretical research and intellectual inquiry.

    That’s where astrophysics Professor Scott Tremaine does his work. Tremaine is one of the world’s leading scientists and is an expert in the evolution of planetary systems, comets, black holes, galaxies — all the stuff Jake really likes.

    In a letter to the Barnetts, Tremaine confirmed the brilliance.

    “I’m impressed by his interest in physics and the amount that he has learned so far,” Tremaine wrote in an email, provided by the family. “The theory that he’s working on involves several of the toughest problems in astrophysics and theoretical physics.

    “Anyone who solves these will be in line for a Nobel Prize.”

    He then encouraged Jake to spend as much time as possible to learn more and to further develop his theory.

    Contacted by The Indianapolis Star, Tremaine confirmed the exchange of notes.

    “I have seen a YouTube video in which Jake describes his theory, and I have spoken with his mother and corresponded with both her and Jake by email,” Tremaine said. “I hope that Jake continues his interest in physics and mathematics.”
    Thinking big is what he does

    Meanwhile, Jake is moving on to his next challenge: proving that the big-bang theory, the event some think led to the formation of the universe, is, well, wrong.


    He explains.

    “There are two different types of when stars end. When the little stars die, it’s just like a small poof. They just turn into a planetary nebula. But the big ones, above 1.4 solar masses, blow up in one giant explosion, a supernova,” Jake said. “What it does, is, in larger stars there is a larger mass, and it can fuse higher elements because it’s more dense.”

    OK . . . trying to follow you.

    “So you get all the elements, all the different materials, from those bigger stars. The little stars, they just make hydrogen and helium, and when they blow up, all the carbon that remains in them is just in the white dwarf; it never really comes off.

    “So, um, in the big-bang theory, what they do is, there is this big explosion and there is all this temperature going off and the temperature decreases really rapidly because it’s really big. The other day I calculated, they have this period where they suppose the hydrogen and helium were created, and, um, I don’t care about the hydrogen and helium, but I thought, wouldn’t there have to be some sort of carbon?”

    He could go on and on.

    And he did.

    “Otherwise, the carbon would have to be coming out of the stars and hence the Earth, made mostly of carbon, we wouldn’t be here. So I calculated, the time it would take to create 2 percent of the carbon in the universe, it would actually have to be several micro-seconds. Or a couple of nano-seconds, or something like that. An extremely small period of time. Like faster than a snap. That isn’t gonna happen.”

    “Because of that,” he continued, “that means that the world would have never been created because none of the carbon would have been given 7 billion years to fuse together. We’d have to be 21 billion years old . . . and that would just screw everything up.”

    So, we had to ask.

    If not the big bang, then how did the universe come about?

    “I’m still working on that,” he said. “I have an idea, but . . . I’m still working out the details.”

    • Sweet! I look forward to hearing more from this kid. Good to see genius still at work in the world, it is a very positive thing. 🙂

  27. SUFA

    I would like to pose a critical question. Assuming that VDLG is possible, as our wildest possible dream, then is a Nation State still necessary or desirable?

    If so, why in your mind is it needed or wanted. What is the advantage of having a Nation State as opposed to just an area on the map where Americans live.

    If not a Nation State then what?

    By Nation State I am assuming a centralized national Govt of some kind. With VDLG it would be minimal but still exist.

    Obviously we have a Nation State today. Do we really want one in the future? If so why? If not, why not?

    Thanks in advance for your hard thinking.

    🙂 🙂

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Geez JAC, This is an article and a two day discussion. Maybe I, or someone else who desires such a challenge, could formulat an article, or half article (team effort) as to going with no centralized government vs. a nation state of a small government, which could only happen after the next revolution. But better prepared than saying it can’t happen here. 🙂

    • I , for one, insist on America with borders.

      Why? Because I want to feel like part of a team. There is no team in ,say, North America. If I go to Australia I want to tell them I live in America- not that piece of land west of the Atlantic Ocean. I want something to believe in..something to work for…something to be proud of. An America with no borders sounds pretty Brand X to me.

      Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet! You can’t beat it!

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Like most here, I’m proud to be an American! I also think that the American way of life is worth fighting for, althouth our idiot governments need major fixes, at the Fed, State and municipal levels. Political parties aren’t much different than unions, corrupt and immoral. Fixing America will be tough, but would rather leave it to my kids in better hands that it is now!

        • Forced Into Medicare
          A federal judge tells seniors to take it or lose Social Security.

          This week marks the first anniversary of ObamaCare, and if you are wondering where that coercive law is headed, we’d point to a case in federal court. That’s where Judge Rosemary Collyer has ruled that Americans have a legal obligation to accept subpar government health benefits.

          It remains a remarkable fact that America obliges most citizens over the age of 65 to take that rickety government health plan known as Medicare. Judging by today’s growing number of health-savings options (HSAs, medical FSAs), some Americans would prefer to maintain private coverage upon retirement, rather than be compelled into second-rate Medicare. Yet the idea of patient choice offends many in government, and in 1993 the Clinton Administration promulgated so-called POMS rules that say seniors who withdraw from Medicare Part A (which covers hospital and outpatient services) must forfeit their Social Security benefits.

          Several senior citizens in 2008 challenged the government, suing to be allowed to opt out of Medicare without losing Social Security. The plaintiffs paid their Medicare taxes through their working lives and are not asking for that money back. They simply want to use their private savings to contract for health services they believe to be superior to a government program that imposes price controls and rations care. They also dutifully contributed to Social Security and—fair enough—prefer to keep those benefits.

          As recently as the fall of 2009, Judge Collyer provided support for the plaintiffs. She rejected the Obama Administration’s argument that the plaintiffs were lucky to get Medicare and therefore had suffered no “injury” and lacked standing. She noted the Clinton POMS are simply part of a government handbook and never went through a formal rule-making. She also refused the Administration’s request to dismiss the suit, noting that “neither the statute nor the regulation specifies that Plaintiffs must withdraw from Social Security and repay retirement benefits in order to withdraw from Medicare.”

          Yet in a stunning reversal, Judge Collyer last week revisited her decision and dismissed the case. In direct contravention to her prior ruling, the judge said the Medicare statute does—with a little creative reading—contain a requirement that Social Security recipients take government health care. The Medicare statute provides that only individuals who are “entitled” to Social Security are “entitled” to Medicare. Therefore, argues the judge, “The only way to avoid entitlement to Medicare Part A at age 65 is to forego the source of that entitlement, i.e., Social Security Retirement benefits.”

          This is convoluted enough, but Judge Collyer’s truly novel finding comes with her implicit argument that to be “entitled” to a government benefit is to be obligated to accept it. This is a startling break with existing legal understandings and raises profound questions as to whether Americans have a duty to accept other “entitlements,” say, food stamps or public housing. Or, as the plaintiffs attorney, Kent Masterson Brown, warns: “Anyone concerned with what will happen when the bureaucrats start writing the thousands of pages of rules that will govern” ObamaCare need only look at this ruling. “Nothing will be optional.”

          That might explain why the Obama Administration fought this suit so vehemently. The government fisc—and taxpayers—would benefit if some seniors pay for their own health care. But for many liberals, the goal isn’t saving money or providing choices. The goal is to force all Americans into the same programs to fulfill their egalitarian dreams. The plaintiffs appealed this week to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, and we hope for freedom’s sake they prevail.

          Part of a second article to explain the rules.

          Choice? *What* choice?

          Apparently, since a Clinton rule change to Social Security regulations in 1993, those over 65 years of age have had a choice all right… a choice to enroll in Medicare, or waive their Social Security retirement benefits. Not only that, if you applied for SS bennies at 62, and received SS payments and RSDI, you have to pay them back when you opt out of HI.

          On August 30, 1993, the Social Security Administration added two substantive rules to its “Program Operations Manual” to address the fact that “[S]ome individuals entitled to monthly benefits have asked to waive Hospital Insurance (HI) entitlement because of religious or philosophical reasons, or because they prefer other health insurance.” (These rules, while promulgated by SSA, are enforced by both SSA and HHS.)

          The first rule reads:

          “Individuals entitled to monthly benefits which confer eligibility for HI may not waive HI entitlement. The only way to avoid HI Entitlement is through withdrawal of the monthly benefit application. Withdrawal requires repayment of all Retirement, Survivors, Disability Insurance (RSDI) and HI benefit payments.”

          The second rule reads:

          “To withdraw from the HI program, an individual must submit a written request for withdrawal and must refund any HI benefits paid on his/her behalf … An individual who filed an application for both monthly benefits and HI may:

          • Withdraw the claim for monthly benefits without jeopardizing HI entitlement; or

          • Withdraw the claim for both monthly benefits and HI. The individual may not elect to withdraw only the HI claim.”

          Notice this Clinton rule change allows you to yield your SS benefits and keep Medicare, but you may not keep your SS retirement checks and yield your Medicare enrollment.


          Feeling the need to pile on to an already bad rule that was accomplished the back rooms of the Clinton WH, and outside mandates that require notice and comments via the Federal Register, the Bush admin further entwined the SS/Medicare knot when, on May 23, 200, the SSA added the following to its Program Operations Manual:

          “The claimant can withdraw an application for:

          • RSI [Retirement or Survivors Insurance, i.e., Social Security] cash benefits only

          • RSI cash benefits and HI insurance coverage …, or

          • Medicare [Part B] only

          However, a claimant who is entitled to monthly RSI benefits cannot [emphasis added] withdraw HI [Medicare, Part A] coverage only since entitlement to HI [Medicare, Part A] is based on entitlement to monthly RSI benefits…”

          Apparently, for a decade and a half, most of us didn’t realize that the only “choice” we have on senior health care was between substandard Medicare and our Social Security retirement funds. Obviously, that “promise of choice” Obama, Pelosi and Reid are offering Americans is only offered to anyone as long as they are under 65 years of age. How convenient is that?

          Not to mention, the number of American’s cornered without options unwittingly is about to increase massively with the advent of 78-79 million baby boomers ready to bog down the system

          The plaintiffs claim that the rules are illegal because:

          • The Social Security Act and Medicare Act state clearly that applying for Social Security monthly benefits and enrolling in Medicare are voluntary and that the applications for each of these programs are not dependent on the application for the other. For the new SSA rules to make enrolling in Medicare mandatory violates the Social Security Act and Medicare Act as well as Article I, Section 1 of the Constitution.

          • Forced participation in Medicare infringes on a citizen’s right to privacy and to make necessary choices about his or her own health care, and, accordingly, violates the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.

          • The new SSA rules were put into place without undergoing the required “notice” and “comment” rule-making requirements. The policies should have been published in the Federal Register and open to comment by the general public prior to implementation. Not doing so violates the Administrative Procedure Act.

      • anita

        If Russia were to suddenly declare itself a FREE Nation, modeled on the ORIGINAL American concepts of Freedom, Liberty and Justice, would you give up this Nation for a new Nation with boundaries? A place you could call your own, one you would be proud to declare your “country” when visiting your friends in Australia?

        Or is it THIS piece of real estate you are so attached to that you can not let it go, regardless of the situation?

        • JAC,

          You are a sly old dog with many tricks!

          At a Poker table, I would be quick …. uncomfortable …. with you sitting on my left….

          Freedom is not a place.

          Freedom is within yourself.

          To “run” to Russia in your example would not set me free.

          If, however, where I am was trying to kill me because I was free, Russia would look very inviting.

          • BF

            So if Russia disbanded all pretense of a Federal govt and said come one come all, we are a truly free nation, you would not move?

            And of course, if moving to Russia would not set you free then why all the howling about American asking immigrants to learn English? Running here couldn’t possibly set them free either, so why would they get offended if told they would have to meet certain requirements?

            Place my friend is absolutely necessary for the manifestation of FREEDOM. It may exist within yourself but only as an abstract. Not until it is allowed to breath in a place is freedom allowed to become REAL.

            • JAC,

              So if Russia disbanded all pretense of a Federal govt and said come one come all, we are a truly free nation, you would not move?

              No, not necessarily. I may, I may not.

              Freedom is not a place. There is no “land” that gives freedom. There is ME on MY land that make freedom

              , so why would they get offended if told they would have to meet certain requirements?

              …because you contradict yourself.

              By the force of requirements to “do this” upon other men, you destroy freedom – including your own.

              It may be a good strategy to learn English, but strategy is NOT the same as REQUIRED.

              Place my friend is absolutely necessary for the manifestation of FREEDOM.

              No, it is not, if you believe it is larger than yourself.

              YOU are necessary for YOUR OWN Freedom, and nothing else.

              • BF

                I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here.

                “Freedom is not a place. There is no “land” that gives freedom. There is ME on MY land that make freedom”

                I did not say freedom comes “from” the land. What I said is what you agree with in the second sentence: :There is ME on MY land….”

                A place is needed for freedom to become meaningful, tangible, alive, real. It also requires other people to be present.

                I am simply saying that freedom, like many concepts of this nature, remain as nothing more than concepts until we try to apply them to our lives. Both Place and People are required for these concepts to come to full life, for them to become meaningful to our daily lives.

                A man living on a desert isle can think about freedom all he wants. And he is truly free. But it would be pretty much irrelevant until you add another person to the island.

                I am not the only thing necessary for my freedom. By its very nature, freedom involves the interaction of people. It does not exist in isolation.

                You will certainly need to explain your view further as I simply do not agree at this point.

      • For now, it must remain a nation state. Consider the US & China, where the US is no longer a state. We have disbanded our military (no taxes to pay for it). China is still a nation intent on growth. So their military moves in and takes ANWR. Not a rifle behind every blade of grass up there.

        Japan takes over Hawaii, turns it into one huge golf course.

        Russia takes Gull Island and several other rich oil fields, but does not contest China for ANWR.

        We cannot become a civilization without government until the rest of the world becomes civilized.

        Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Ford (or Thunderbird)!
        Still not a fan of government motors.

    • I think I would like to take this on as an article. It is a seriously great question. For some, like BF, the answer is a simple no. For most others it is a simple yes, but I am not sure the simple yesses really have thought it out. If they have, I am not sure if they have asked deep enough questions about how and why it would work differently than the first attempt we had at a republic. The United States of America is both a brilliant success and a dismal failure at this point. Is this unavoidable? Do all civilizations rise and fall no matter their format? Is one arguably better than another? Is it possible to have one that is stable long term? If such a permanent stability were possible, would human nature be mature enough to accept it? I would love to hear the answers to these questions, even from those who have asked at least some of them of themselves like BF. I am not sure if he has considered the reality of acceptance by humanity or not.

      JAC if there is a prize for best question of the day, I think you get it….

      • gmanfortruth says:

        Rock on Dude! What side would you take, a central government, or not ? 🙂

        • How is this for an answer: I DONT KNOW!!!
          I am leaning for no, or a very loose one that had borders that only applied against invaders and forceful opponents. If there was a competing segment that people liked better, should it not win if the goal is a free market? Of course, if they use force, then all bets are off, and they will find out just how superior a free market military operation can really be.

          Still, it remains an article that I will put out without a clear side of my own, I am still in transition on many things. To be honest, I do not believe that a thinking person, a learning person, will ever have every aspect of life and philosophy pegged. This is an article, however, that I want to write, not to get out a message or teach others, but to learn and to inspire others to learn, and more importantly, to question themselves and their assumptions and face any contradictions they may find.

          • gmanfortruth says:

            Run with it! I’ll look forward to reading it 🙂 I know that I was motivated two days ago by what was discussed, wrote na article on my blog and had a huge number of readers. I like that kind of motivation. Run hard with it, it should be a great article!

            • gmanfortruth says:

              I’ve been having a blast aggravating the people on HuffPo! Hell, they know more about Obama’s impeachment than most at this point, and have been quit silent, HEHE 👿

      • Jon,

        My Part Two-demi – though harsh – is my final word on the subject.

        If that post in insufficient, those that remain fixed will be abandoned.

        • There comes a time when such measures are necessary. I have a feeling that I will not be ready to abandon all who remain fixed yet, but I also have a feeling that I will not be one of the abandoned, if that makes sense….

    • JAC,

      Part One and Part Two, coming Part Two-demi, followed by Part Three.

      NO! Nation State is history – and if the Remnant continue to fluster around and attempt to maintain that which is lost, they will lose.

      • BF

        I don’t see anything that could possibly result in eliminating the nation state.

        As for the USA it could break into smaller nation states but there will be nations none the less.

        But in all probability the USA will still exist as a Nation State, but the nature of the State itself may change dramatically.

        You are going to have to provide a much better explanation before I could start to believe the Nation State is history.

  28. JAC

    Black Flag

    You have stated several times today that the immigrant does not have to respect our culture because we do not respect the culture of the immigrant. We must show respect first in order to earn their respect.

    I ask you, just which immigrant’s culture is is that we disrespect and exactly how do we show this disrespect towards the immigrant?

    It takes no effort to see this, and I can embody the entire example in one word:


    Are you saying that simply telling them they need to learn English is disrespecting their culture?


    Me TELLING YOU will naturally invoke in you …”You and whose F’n army! is going to TELL ME what to do!
    Your posts even in this topic show this.

    But advise

    …invokes a whole other set of emotions ….

    I care enough to teach where you are ignorant, but I do not impose what you do not wish to learn…

    As I’ve been trying to point out, there is a world of difference between good strategy and requirements

    If someone comes here seeking a better life then how is it disrespectful to tell them that we expect them to learn our language and to respect our laws and customs?

    Because “telling them” is -emotionally- rebuking them.

    Advising them is teaching them.

    I will TELL you how to clean your room!
    Can I help you clean your room?

    Which one of these sentences did your Mom use on you, and what was the effect?

    Certainly they know they are moving to a country with different laws and customs than the one they are leaving.

    They fled tyranny on a promise of freedom.

    Do you really want to crush their soulful dream?

    • BF

      What you have just described are personal views of what constitutes and insult to them personally.

      None of this describes and insult to their “culture”. And I believe it is accurate to say that not all immigrants feel as you claim. I have known enough personally to claim an absolute on my claim.

      I understand your argument from a purely principled stand point but it doesn’t seem to fit the actual real world where people have come to expect certain things among other people and nations. So to claim that these simple things are an “insult to another’s culture” seems a bit far fetched to me. Unless of course the “other” was simply looking for anything to be insulted about.

      • JAC

        What you have just described are personal views of what constitutes and insult to them personally.

        True – personal

        But fact almost universal.

        No man accepts another man “telling him” very well.

        Actually it takes training to be able to accept this – military training – where they crush you and rebuild you into a robot.

        But it is universal to man – do not “tell” — …. “teach” instead.

        …and I already posted a glowing example, in one word:


        In the past it was “Chink” or “Irish” or “Polack” or “Spic” or “Nigger” …

        …but it takes no work to find such examples

  29. JAC

    …black rabbit…

    Darn you old man@

    Here I am, reading between poker hands, with a beer in one hand and a computer mouse in another … already a bad combo while playing with real cash…..

    …and then you post that….

    Just to let you know, snorting beer is not comfortable… 🙂

    Couldn’t you have said “… black fox..??…” or “…black willy coyote…??”…

    But no…

    a damn rabbit.

    Bugs Bunny.

    gee. that will impress my wife.

    • Sometimes in the midst of strong debate on deep philosphy, I forget that you are a person with a good sense of humor. You should post with a beer in hand more often. 🙂

      Unlike myself who tends to get too antagonstic when drunk…

    • BF

      Tell your wife to picture a black Cadburry’s bunny instead of Bugs.

      You might get more cuddles that way!!

  30. I remember a discussion of the teacher that has requested an unpaid leave of absence to attend the Mecca pilgrimage. I have learned that the DOJ has filed suit against the scholl that denied her request.

    Now…this is a subject of multiculturalism. This is, of course, a Muslim woman who is a teacher. The DOJ filed the suit under Title 7. Title 7 says that a “reasonable accomodation must be made for religious activity.” This is a situation of political correctness run amok and directly is a result of a multi cultured society.

    First of all, there is no cost to the school but that is not the issue. The issue is the amount of time off. The school has determined that a substitute teacher is not sufficient for three weeks. This is, of course, a school decision and not a decision for the courts or government. The school has also said that this time of year is a crucial time and that reasonable accomodation is not a three week leave.

    Obama’s DOJ has intervened BECAUSE she is Muslim and not because of discrimination although Title 7 is for discrimination. The school has a history of allowing religious observance but has determined that more than a week off is unreasonable and beyond their normal practice.

    This is an example of having to adjust for a multicultural and/or ethnic society.

    Now, should the school have anticipated this and seeing that the person was a Muslim asked the question of Mecca? Yes…it is quite correct and legal to ask questions of a religious nature IF it is deemed that said religion would create an undue hardship….in this case three weeks off during a crucial time. Another example centers around an air traffic controller that was reassigned because of his Muslim religion and having a prayer session 5 times per day during his work shift. The courts said this went beyond the scope of reasonable accomodation. In the school example, it is unreasonable to expect a three week vacation even at no pay.

    Former DOJ administrators have said that this is a very weak case and would be surprised if it went any further.

  31. gmanfortruth says:

    A little boy goes to his dad and asks, ‘What is Politics?’

    Dad says, ‘Well son, let me try to explain it this way:

    I am the head of the family, so call me The President.

    Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government.

    We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you the People.

    The nanny, we will consider her the Working Class.

    And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.

    Now think about that and see if it makes sense.’

    So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

    Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.

    He finds that the baby has severely soiled his nappy.

    So the little boy goes to his parent’s room and finds his mother asleep.

    Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny’s room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny..

    He gives up and goes back to bed.

    The next morning, the little boy say’s to his father, ‘Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now. ‘

    The father says, ‘Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.’

    The little boy replies, ‘The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep. The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep shit.’

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Good Morning All 🙂

      This is the very short version of BF’s next article 😆

    • gmanfortruth says:

      Bob and Ralph were fishing on the Newfoundland shoreline when Bob pulled out a cigar. Finding he had no matches,he asked Ralph for a light.

      ‘Ya, shure, I tink I haff a lighter,’ Ralph replied with a Newfoundland accent, and then reaching into his tackle box, he pulled out a Bic lighter 10 inches long.

      ‘Holy shit, man!’ exclaimed Bob,taking the huge Bic Lighter in his hands. ‘Where’d yew git dat monster?’

      ‘Well,’ replied Ralph, ‘I got it from my Genie.’

      ‘You haff a Genie?’ Bob asked.

      ‘Ya, shure. It’s right here in my tackle box,’ says Ralph.

      ‘Could I see him?’

      Ralph opens his tackle box and sure enough, out pops the Genie.

      Addressing the Genie, Bob says, ‘Hey dere! I’m a good buddy of your master. Will you grant me one wish?’

      ‘Yes, I will,’ says the Genie.

      So Bob asks the Genie for a million bucks. The Genie disappears back into the tackle box leaving Bob sitting there waiting for his million bucks. Shortly,the Newfoundland sky darkens and is filled with the sound of
      a million ducks…. flying directly overhead.

      Over the roar of the million ducks Bob yells at Ralph,
      ‘What the hell? I asked for a million bucks, not a million ducks!’

      Ralph answers, ‘Ya, I forgot to tell yew dat da Genie
      is hard of hearing. Do yew really tink
      I asked for a 10 inch Bic?’

  32. How far removed we are today from the original intent of our Founding Fathers. The ACLU is largely responsible for creating the gulf between the Constitution’s original construction and its modern misapplication.

    The ACLU remains one of America’s most powerful secular-socialist political pressure groups. It relentlessly tramples underfoot the First Amendment, which guarantees sweeping and absolute liberty for all Americans — including government employees — to freely exercise their faith both publicly and privately without fear of reprisal: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

    Examples of its constitutional abuses are manifold, but one of the most recent involves an ACLU assault against a group of Christians in Santa Rosa County, Florida. Liberty Counsel represents those Christians.

    An ACLU-crafted consent decree has been used as a weapon to threaten school district employees with fines and jail time for merely praying over a meal, and for exercising — even while away from school — their sincerely held Christian faith. You read that right. The ACLU is literally seeking to criminalize Christianity.

    In August of 2009, Liberty Counsel successfully defended staff member Michelle Winkler from contempt charges brought by the ACLU after her husband, who is not even employed by the district, offered a meal prayer at a privately sponsored event in a neighboring county.

    Liberty Counsel also successfully defended Pace High School principal Frank Lay and athletic director Robert Freeman against criminal contempt charges, after the ACLU sought to have the men thrown in jail for blessing a lunch meal served to about 20 adult booster club members.

    Under the consent decree, teachers are considered to be acting in their “official capacity” anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

    Liberty Counsel describes this unconstitutional decree:

    Teachers cannot pray, bow their heads, or fold their hands to show agreement with anyone who does pray. Teachers and staff cannot ‘Reply’ to an email sent by a parent if the parent’s email refers to God or Scripture. Teachers either have to delete such references from the original email or reply by initiating a new email. Teachers and staff are also required to stop students from praying in their own private club meetings.

    During witness testimony, Mrs. Winkler sobbed as she described how she and a co-worker, who had recently lost a child, literally had to hide in a closet to pray.

    Read more:

    • LOI

      I strongly disagree with your conclusion: “The ACLU is largely responsible for creating the gulf between the Constitution’s original construction and its modern misapplication.”

      The ACLU is just a manifestation of the cause. If you want to get closer then look to the law schools specifically and the Universities in general.

      The ACLU has also done some great work defending the constitution. The organization should be praised when appropriate and likewise chastised when needed.

      A consent decree requires two parties to agree to its implementation. It can not be imposed upon the school teachers unilaterally by the ACLU.

      • JAC,

        Not my conclusion. I frequently post without commenting. I will even post things I disagree with if I think them worthy of discussion.

        And on Multiculturalism – Political correctness gone awry ? I think including the ACLU is very worthy. Is there a way to find out how much money has been spent by schools defending themselves from ACLU lawsuits? Why is freedom of speech not allowed in school? How did we become a nation with neighborhoods where it is illegal to fly our own flag?

        And the ACLU was using the courts to force people to not pray in public, just because they were school employee’s.
        They would be subject to fines and imprisonment for exercising their right to free speech.

        I will agree the ACLU has done some good things, but the bad they have done stands foremost in my mind. Ignoring the “prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” part.

      • TexasChem says:

        The ACLU is a bogus organization using a politically correct doctrine of propoganda to subvert traditional American idealogy with their marxist idealogy.

        Founders of the ACLU…

        Roger Baldwin
        The first director of the ACLU. It is possible that he never joined the Communist Party as a member, although he states himself “I joined. I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted”. He supported the Soviet Union and communism & socialism in all it’s ugly forms. After refusing to comply with a draft notice, Baldwin deliberately violated the Selective Service Act, which resulted in a celebrated trial and a jail term of 1 year.

        William Z. Foster
        National Chairman of the Communist Party USA and a ACLU co-founder. This communist was famous for this 1932 quote: “The establishment of an American Soviet government will involve the confiscation of large landed estates in town and country, and also, the whole body to forests, mineral deposits, lakes, rivers and so on.” He was the author of Toward Soviet America.

        Norman Thomas
        Presbyterian minister and radical socialist who advocated the total abolition of capitalism. he was also a eugenicist, wanting to stop reproduction of “undesirables. In other words just like Himmler and the SS. He ran as a presidential candidate for the Socialist Party a total of 6 times.

        Crystal Eastman
        Not a valid communist but definitely a socialist, radical feminist, who wanted legalized prostitution. With Roger Baldwin she helped form the NCLB which grew into the American Civil Liberties Union, with Baldwin at the head and Eastman as attorney. Eastman is credited as a founding member of the ACLU, and with creating the First Feminist Congress, also the National Woman’s Peace Party. She was a antimilitarist, pacifist who wanted the USA to unilaterally disarm.

        Helen Keller
        Yes that is right, Helen Keller. Famous from the play and later films “The Miracle Worker”. But anyhow she was an avid socialist and supported Eugene V. Debs in his campaigns for the presidency. It seems that Hollywood and government sponsored schools has done it again. How many of us really knew that she (Helen Keller) in the early 1920s, wrote and spoke flatteringly about both German variations of socialism, the national socialism of Adolf Hitler and international revolutionary socialism, or communism of Lenin/Stalin?

        Elizabeth Flynn Gurley
        A totally committed communist, she later became chairman of CPUSA. She joined the party in 1936 after the ACLU was formed, she had been a Socialist since 1906 before the ACLU was formed. She was arrested June 1951 and charged with violating the Alien Registration Act. She was given a state funeral in Red Square!

        A. J. Muste
        An odd man in that he was at first an ordained pastor, he voted for Eugene V. Debs in 1912. Went on to help form the CPLA. Later he became an avowed Marxist-Leninist. He and James Cannon of the Trotskyist movement, then merged his own political group with Cannon’s, forming the Trotskyist Workers Party of America. . He later later became a Christian pacifist after a trip to Norway when he met with Leon Trotsky.

        Harry F. Ward
        Dazed and Confused should have been this mans moniker! Reverend Harry F. Ward and a lifetime communist. Come on people you know he also authored “Soviet Democracy” and “Soviet Spirit,” two very pro-Communist books. How this man could claim Jesus as his King and at the same time hail Marx/Lenin/Stalin and communism, which seeks to destroy any form of faith except it’s own faith in communism itself. He must surly have been either a Judas or a fool.

        In 1940 the ACLU formally bars communists from leadership or staff positions. So I guess that means the ACLU purged itself of all Communist/Socialist/Marxist/Stalinist ideals?

        Americans are experiencing at an ever increasing tempo, stories from the evening TV news, the morning newspaper, or the midday Internet news about the ACLU going to court or threatening to sue a business, person, or government agency. The lawsuits, court injunctions or threats of costly and long court battles have had a rather dramatic effect on many social and business aspects of our nation. Most of the effect has been negative! It has been a monster, going about wrecking families by removing parental authority, trying to stop the Military from recruiting, attempting to increase teenage pregnancies and so on.

        The insulting and outrageous suits and legal battles have left most Americans wondering why the Boy Scouts of America are being refused access to parks, a county seal (Los Angeles) having it’s historical image of a Spanish Mission being removed at great expense to taxpayers, children being told that they cannot pray, even quietly, to themselves at lunch while in school, the 10 Commandments being removed from courthouses and parental authority being eroded.
        The ACLU readily defends organizations such as NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). This organization, as reported by Bill O’Rielly, [concerning NAMBLA’s Website] “it actually posted techniques designed to lure boys into having sex with men and also supplied information on what an adult should do if caught.”

        The ACLU themselves will tell you that they are defending the right of Americans to exercise their freedom of religion with lawsuits like the one in the City of Boca Raton (circa 1999). The City is trying to remove excess ground covering planted at gravesites that has overgrown into the lawn areas of the cemetery. The problem with the ground covering is that it prevents lawn maintenance and the vertical memorials are a danger! This has nothing to do with religious practice or freedom, and the ACLU knows it. By the way, the ACLU lost the lawsuit.

        The ACLU, an organization according to their own propaganda, is solely devoted to the protection of the bill of rights is also in the role of advocating the removal of military recruiters from schools and campuses. The key here is the word advocating. The ACLU will tell you that “children” under the age of 18 are to young to make decisions about the military. But in a Western Pennsylvania town of Trafford the ACLU is watching like BiG Brother (NKVD / KGB / Secret Police) a small towns curfew policy. The ACLU states “The curfew violates one of the rights in the First Amendment — the freedom of assembly”. Excuse me ACLU this is a MINOR! Children are to be reared by parents, not the government. Children cannot have all the same rights as adults otherwise we (parents) would be unable to raise them.

  33. TexasChem says:

    A very interesting column.. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL
    Be sure to Read the Poem at the end.

    Charley Reese’s final column for the Orlando Sentinel…
    He has been a journalist for 49 years.
    He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.

    Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

    This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day. It’s a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

    545 vs. 300,000,000 People
    -By Charlie Reese

    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

    Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

    Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

    You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The President does.

    You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

    You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.

    You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

    You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to determine how he votes.

    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

    If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.

    If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the red.

    If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it’s because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan …

    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.

    There are no insoluble government problems.

    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

    They, and they alone, have the power.

    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

    Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees…

    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

    What you do with this article now that you have read it… is up to you.
    This might be funny if it weren’t so true.
    Be sure to read all the way to the end:

    Tax his land,
    Tax his bed,
    Tax the table,
    At which he’s fed.

    Tax his tractor,
    Tax his mule,
    Teach him taxes
    Are the rule.

    Tax his work,
    Tax his pay,
    He works for
    peanuts anyway!

    Tax his cow,
    Tax his goat,
    Tax his pants,
    Tax his coat.

    Tax his ties,
    Tax his shirt,
    Tax his work,
    Tax his dirt.

    Tax his tobacco,
    Tax his drink,
    Tax him if he
    Tries to think.

    Tax his cigars,
    Tax his beers,
    If he cries
    Tax his tears.

    Tax his car,
    Tax his gas,
    Find other ways
    To tax his ass.

    Tax all he has
    Then let him know
    That you won’t be done
    Till he has no dough.

    When he screams and hollers;
    Then tax him some more,
    Tax him till
    He’s good and sore.

    Then tax his coffin,
    Tax his grave,
    Tax the sod in
    Which he’s laid…

    Put these words
    Upon his tomb,
    ‘Taxes drove me
    to my doom…’

    When he’s gone,
    Do not relax,
    Its time to apply
    The inheritance tax.

    Accounts Receivable Tax
    Building Permit Tax
    CDL license Tax
    Cigarette Tax
    Corporate Income Tax
    Dog License Tax
    Excise Taxes
    Federal Income Tax
    Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
    Fishing License Tax
    Food License Tax
    Fuel Permit Tax
    Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
    Gross Receipts Tax
    Hunting License Tax
    Inheritance Tax
    Inventory Tax
    IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
    Liquor Tax
    Luxury Taxes
    Marriage License Tax
    Medicare Tax
    Personal Property Tax
    Property Tax
    Real Estate Tax
    Service Charge Tax
    Social Security Tax
    Road Usage Tax
    Recreational Vehicle Tax
    Sales Tax
    School Tax
    State Income Tax
    State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
    Telephone Federal Excise Tax
    Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
    Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
    Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
    Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
    Telephone State and Local Tax
    Telephone Usage Charge Tax
    Utility Taxes
    Vehicle License Registration Tax
    Vehicle Sales Tax
    Watercraft Registration Tax
    Well Permit Tax
    Workers Compensation Tax

    Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
    We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

    What in the heck happened? Can you spell ‘politicians?’

    I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!


  34. Anita and now the rest of SUFA

    I asked above if you would move to Russia if Russia were to become a free country, at a minimum modeled on the very principles of freedom, liberty and justice?

    Or, is your attachment to the USA or your personal real estate so strong that you would remain here and continue to struggle within and attempting to change, the existing Govt?

    What say you SUFA?

    • TexasChem says:

      You’re asking if I would move from my home because our society in its ignorance of the political incompetence that has caused our current position, has become an apathetic, kool-aid drinking, non thinking child dependent upon the federal govt. for its daily sustenance AND move to a hypothetical country that is modeled after the very one that failed us…or would I do something to halt the negative change affecting our society?
      Geee… tough one there JaC! 🙂
      Personally, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that I feel a day of reckoning will occur in the next five years some time.

      • Tex

        So real estate is more important than freedom and liberty?

        The hypothetical is no different than the one that existed when your ancestors and mine decided to move to America. They had no guarantee it would be better, only stories. Yet they abandoned their “National Identity” in search of freedom and a potential better life. Would YOU????

        If not then why not?

        • TexasChem says:

          I’m quite content with my national identity.
          I am not content with the identity being forced upon me by the liberal elites with their progressive agenda.
          I am also quite certain that their are those, that are still in the majority, that share the same national identity as I.
          Why should we leave our lands and homes that we have nurtured and built for ourselves and our families?

        • I think there is a lot missing from your statement here. There were many reasons people came to this country but the number one was economic. It still is. Freedom was secondary except for the initial flux looking for religious freedom. Economic conditions for many in Europe were terrible. Not only that there was a virtually empty land across the sea that was advertising for settlers. Land was available for cheap if not free. My ancestors came from the Palatine region of Germany in 1711. They were entised to leave by English broadsides and promises of land. Their own condition was terrible being the victims of endless war between the Germans and French. Not only that, the region was decimated by terrible winters and poor crops for several years. So they were eager to find something better more survivable. Of course the result was the English stuck them between the French and Indians in Canada and the Dutch and English in lower NY. Still they prospered in the new world despite the many hardships. Their descendents are now spread from coast to coast.
          Where in this world is there another country encouraging immigration with free land and much economic growth potential?
          I strongly feel that freedom permits opportunity to exist. But it is the opportunity that draws people.

    • Ain’t goin nowhere JAC!

      Like TC’s article’s 545 vs 300 mil. Although we probably have to adjust the #’s to 100,000,545 vs 200 mil to accommodate for the progressives.

      Above anything else..I am loyal. No one ever said it was going to be easy..nor should it be. I think it was you,above, who stated that we are better than others. I don’t really see it that way. I don’t need to be better than others..but I do like the idea of trying to be better just for the sake of ourselves. If that means we come out on top..then so be it.

      How’s that..

      Nice and chilly here..have some errands to run…see ya in a while.

      • anita

        Sun is finally out today but still cold. While in Portland they announced that come tomorrow it will be the longest period on record with temps below 60 degrees, since winter began. Long range forecast shows temps may stay below 60 until end of March or later. New Record if that happens.

        On topic: I am curious as to who or what you are loyal?

        For a moment we will assume you can take your family and any friends willing to go, along with you to this new Russia.

        Why would you stay here rather than take the plunge like your ancestors did?

        • My ancestor’s had it pretty rough when they fled Hungary for the promise of a better life in America. WW1 was in their face.

          I don’t understand where you’re going with your question. I’m loyal to the USA..the land, the country. the idea. Why bother bailing? We just need to get rid of the mind game of gov’t.

          I’m not trying to get smart but you’re making it more complicated than it needs to be.

    • Next time ask me a hard question….

      I would go in a second, without any regrets. I would only pause long enough to try to convince those I care about to come with me.

    • gmanfortruth says:

      JAC, Hope your day is a good one!

      You ask a good question, but my answer would be NO, I would not move to Russia. My reasons are many, but I’m a warrior, not a runner. When you run from one problem, you likely end up with other problems, that could be worse.. Those who fought and died in the American Revolution deserve better from the current citizenry. This corrupt mess we call a government will soon collapse under the weight of their own stupidity, when they fail, someone has to be here to fight for the freedom of future generations.

      Freedom isn’t free, and sometimes one has to stand their ground and say “NO MORE”. That time is close at hand, because of our nations past, and the mistakes made in the last 200+ years, those willing to stand for freedom (and the return of it) will have done a great service to future generations. Running away is not for me, whoopin Liberal ass is! 🙂

    • Murphy's Law says:


      I would not go to Russia- it’s too damn cold! 🙂

      Maybe if you moved your example to a more tropical location I would consider it…..


    • USWeapon says:

      That is an interesting question JAC. But one that I have thought about on several occasions. My answer is yes. I would move to Russia. I would venture to say I would be willing to move anywhere if I thought that the increase in liberty and freedom were significant enough to warrant the trouble of moving. In other words, just slightly more free is not worth it. I can stay here and try to fight for slightly more free. But a wholesale country with VDLG as its principle and liberty and freedom paramount, I would go in a second. No real estate or country identity is more valuable than freedom.

      • GASP!!!!!!!!!!!

        The host of Stand up for America would bail the country?

        • Only if things were so bad that America couldn’t be fixed and another place had embraced what we stand for.

          • Isn’t VDLG..even if by another name.. basically what we were founded on?

            • anita


              It is less, in terms of Govt, and more soundly grounded on core principles.

              But it is much closer to the original idea than what we have today.

              At least in my view.

            • Is it what we were founded on? Yes, I believe in a fashion it is. However, we have strayed quite far from that principle, have we not? If somewhere ended up with a 1700’s style revolution and embraced the concept as a fledgling US did so long ago, I would consider it an opportunity to get in on the ground floor and help to shape the new country in a way that would eliminate the mistakes America made along the way.

        • Anita,
          What exactly is being bailed on in this scenario? If a place embraced true freedom and the US was just a socialist cesspool without enough support to revolt, then what is the problem? What is it you are really being loyal to?

          • You just raised the bar. I assumed JAC’s scenario was as if it was America’s political environment as it stands today not as a socialist cesspool. I don’t see us at quite that point yet. Maybe you do. I stated what I’m loyal to.

            I’m amazed that you, who is such a strong advocate of freedom and liberty, knowing you have to stand up and fight for it to keep it, would be so quick to bail.

            While the tea party and bloggers have begun to stand up and fight, I see it as though we have a lot more fighting to do. If I saw years of what’s going on in the middle east protests happening in our streets then I might consider bailing. We can still turn it around we just need to wake up the sheeple. 3am phone call at a time.

            Stand up for America!

            • I am indeed a fighter Anita, but I am fighting for freedom, not a nationality. Let me ask the question a few different ways:

              1) A few states decide to resist the federal government and manage to work out a deal where they have more freedom than most states, but do not secede. Do you move to one of those states since there is much more freedom but it is still the US?

              2) A few state secede and become their own country, breaking off from the US but still right here. They go back to a great level of freedom, VDLG or even something like the US started out to be. Do you move there?

              3) Your state is one that secedes. It is more free now than as part of the US, do you move to be back in the US and “fight for its freedom?

              • Your fighting for freedom…so stay and fight!

                You continue to raise the bar. JAC did not put so many ifs into his scenario. I could put plenty of ifs in that would make me consider bailing.

              • I know, I am just trying to make a point. I would certainly prefer to free this country and the people in it, but not because it is “my country” or “my people”. Only because I like this place and know it well, and I love many people here, who I would want to have the opportunity to be free as well.

                That said, I took the question differently. If another place was freer than here, I would go based on how things are now. Why? Because my vote means too little and too few desire freedom enough to fix things. If the country was worse off, especially financially, then a revolution might be realistic. If the people were people not sheeple, then a fight would work. I am not running from a fight, even a long shot fight, but I am no fool either. Fixing the system, I think, is ceasing to be an option. Many people are waking up, but we are not close to real change, not yet.

                Now, the idea of another place in the world becoming free, the kind of free that I would go accross the globe to get to, is the biggest if of all. I do not see that happening anywhere else anytime soon. So I will fight the battle here, and I will fight it hard and at great risk, because freedom is worth that to me. I do not fight it for America, but for the freedom that America used to represent.

                The reason for the what ifs is, I want to know if you are loyal to a country to a philosophy. If it is the former, then why? What has it done for you? What makes it deserve such loyalty? Certainly I would like to see those I care about free as well, but I could do that by taking them with me just as easily. If I could start a new country, I would certainly do it over fighting a revolution. It is not “bailing” to start over somewhere, it is simply avoiding bloodshed. Give me liberty or give me death, but if I can have liberty without being hanged like Patrick Henry, I will take the option.

                My attitude might be different if I was rooted to the land. If I was a farmer like our founders were. But I doubt it. I can start over anywhere and do anything, so long as I am free. To me the fictional free land of Russia is no different than Galt’s Gulch. A place to go to be free from the collapse of a doomed system.

              • Ok Jon but you have to stay based in reality. The entire planet is discovered and all habitable land is already being governed. We can’t change that..we by your own past admissions have the best thing going… all your what ifs will never change reality…we have no choice but to fix it

              • I agree completely.

                Now, as far as how to go about that. I will still vote, and it will never be for the main parties. I will still pay attention to politics. I will not, however, waste too much energy on that, not unless I see a significant shift in the American people. I am done watching the politicians, I need to be watching and teaching those around me. IF, and it is a big if, a tipping point is reached where a real revolution, be it peaceful or not, is possible on a national level, I will be right there. In the mean time, I need to focus on local stuff, and on changing the culture of people. That is the path. The system is not recoverable by using the system’s tools.

              • Now we’re talkin! 🙂

            • anita

              Is it possible for you to explain WHY you feel this loyalty to the land and the country?

              • NO

              • 🙂 🙂

                I posted the smileys because I starting to cop an attitude with you guys..but no hard feelings are meant.

                JAC! Could you answer your own question and tell me what is the point of this questioning…this is two separate requests.

            • Anita

              The purpose of my question was curiosity. It related to the discussions about Nation States. Then as with most conversations as the discussion unfolds new questions arise.

              But before going in more detail or offering up my answer I would like to let this set a day or two. Give those a chance who were gone for the weekend to respond.

              If I forget by Tuesday please remind me.

    • A Puritan Descendant says:

      I will go down with the ship.

      I have to much of my life invested here. This includes time, money, and most of all heart.

      Besides, do you have any idea how long it would take me to replace a free source of Ice cold carbonated Cider? A Natural Cider far superior in flavor to the crap I have sampled on the market.

      I am with Anita’s “Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet”. If that does not touch your heart, then I think you should go the country of ‘New Hope’.

      Time to watch the Red Sox! Later All.

      • Not sure it I will go down with the ship, but when it truly starts sinking, I will do my best to fill the lifeboats. Might be the last off that intends to leave, grabbing that last keg, fishing pole and whatever else.

  35. SK Trynosky Sr says:

    We have the answer on the eventual fate or shall I say result of multiculturalism right here in this country. It is the American Indian. Some may argue that he was forced onto a reservation and thus marginalized and doomed to failure. Some would call this racism. From an anthropological standpoint though I think a better analogy would be comparing Neanderthal to Cro-magnon. Neanderthal was supposedly less adaptable and was either left behind or became interbred with the more successful Cro-magnon. In the case of the American Indian it was not that they were less adaptable but rather that they either chose or were prevented from joining the prevalent culture. So, they were and are left behind.

    Another interesting example before us are the Amish. they live by their own rules, maintain their own culture but have adapted to the main culture in the country by both speaking the language while maintaining their own and by economically tying themselves to the dominant culture. Hassadic Judaism is a similar example. Mormonism tried to divorce itself from the culture but ultimately decided to accommodate it.

    What we learn from this is that failure to adapt results in failure period. You can continue on, you can live in the barrio and become a success within that very small, very tiny insular community but you cannot reach beyond it. The Bank of America, started by an Italian immigrant, very proud of his heritage, became the biggest bank in the world by deciding to not confine itself to Italians. I am sure that the founder took flak in his own community as a “sell out” for doing this as I have seen Hispanic businessmen in NY accused of the same thing.

    In my own experience I can point to two examples. My eldest uncle was born here in 1913 but spoke no English when he went to school. Within weeks the teacher, in Frackville PA came to the home, spoke to my grandfather (who did speak English at work) and told him he was doing a disservice to his children by not speaking and practicing the language at home. She said, according to family lore, that his children would be forever marginalized unless they spoke the language. He got the message. Today a teacher with the temerity to do this would be drummed out of the profession as a insensitive racist. This is a story I first heard when I was about ten from my uncles and aunts so its not something that was recently made up. During the argument in the 1960’s over bilingual education, when I was a teenager, it was repeatedly made by my elders in opposition to the plan. My family members who married within their own religion and original ethnic group maintained to the next generation both their language abilities as well as a deep cultural knowledge of their heritage. Those, like my dad who did not, maintained their own ties but could not pass them all on to his children. Does that sadden me? Yes, in a way, but then again, if he had not gone outside of the religion and culture would I be who I am today?

    Another excellent example was the ability of young Puerto Ricans to be dropped into my grammar school classes without speaking a word of English in the 1950’s and be fluent in the language by the end of the year. That group then had sub-sets, those who remained on the mainland and completely assimilated and those who returned to Puerto Rico and seem to have lost whatever language ability they once had as they returned back to that dominant culture.

    Lastly, a sad story about a young Dominican who worked for me in his early twenties, probably the best plasterman I ever had when it came to restorations. His English was abominable because he was the victim of NYC bi-lingual education. I never knew that he was native born and continued pushing him to learn better English for his own future. It was then I found out from him he was a New Yorker. He never did improve his English so he never was able to break into well paid jobs despite his skill. As he became older, became a family man he turned to the easy money of dealing drugs where English proficiency was not required. Last I hard he was doing ten to twenty.

    You may get some visceral thrill or misbegotten pride out of not joining the culture but with very few exceptions you are cutting your own throat and that of your children.

    People bandy about France as an example of where multi-culturalism has miserably failed. They do not know how right they are. Sarkosy is not a French name. The head of state is not a Frenchman but a Hungarian. Had his parents not adapted, the best he could have probably hoped for was running a nice restaurant on the left bank for tourists.

    In my more paranoid moments I think that multi-culturalism is a plot by those who would deliberately marginalize entire races of people in order to maintain their own power over them. The end result is a plantation mentality where a very small group maintains control over a large group because they are literally needed to speak for them,.

    • SK, great tale that highlights the problems. ESL programs are about the money not about the kids. Several years ago, there was an attempt in the SanFran Bay area to make Ebonics a foreign language so the kids could be put in ESL classes. It was a ploy to get more money but until that was uncovered Rev. Jackson backed the effort making it a racist issue. I think there is enough research and experience to show that immersion is the best way to teach a new language. I have had smatterings of French and German but never really learned the languages. I am sure that immersed in them, I would have learned them quickly.
      As for my family, the ones who were not already here, came over between 1711 and 1872. So I am several generations removed from the immigants. The last of them was my grandfather’s Danish parents. Grandad had brothers and sisters born in Denmark but he was born here. Still I never heard him say a word of Danish nor indicate that he even knew any. My Grandmother’s parents were German. Likewise, she never spoke any German that I know of.
      As for the German Palatines that arrived in 1711 and settled in the Mohawk Valley, I understand that German was still taught in the schools until about 1850. I am sure that they also spoke English. All of the legal documents I have seen are in English. German was probably maintained more in the churches than in the secular world.
      The church I attended as a youngster held German and English services until 1950. I can still remember the old preacher with the distinctly German accent.
      My Dad worked for a German immigrant farmer in the early 1950’s. He and his family all spoke English as well as German.
      I think the melting pot comes from marriage outside of the national groups. My family is German, Norwegian, Danish, Irish, and Indian.
      Like D13, I wish everyone would drop the “-” in defining our citizens. It only serves to divide in the hopes of conquering. This includes the census as the Constitutional need for identifying one race as 3/5ths human was eliminated with emancipation.

  36. Murphy's Law says:

    A perfect example of political correctness gone awry-

    A few years ago, I had a kindergarten student who was blind and needed to be taught Braille for his reading, writing, math, etc. His school had almost entirely Hispanic students so most of the classes were bilingual classes catering to the illegal immigrant Hispanic population- at most grade levels there was only one totally English speaking classroom. I am sorry to say that my district, as well as many others in the DFW area, look the other way where illegal immigrant students are concerned because it gives them more funds for teachers, classes, materials, etc. My student came from a Spanish speaking home, but was well on his way to learning English and his parents wanted him to speak English. It was crucial that he be in an English speaking class because I was going to teach him Braille in English, not Spanish. That was non-negotiable because we will not teach Braille in Spanish. (The only exception is when Spanish is being taught to a blind student as an elective language choice.) At the start of the school year I was informed that even though they had a kindergarten teacher eager to have him in the class and they (meaning the school and the principal) had every intent of having the English-only Kindergarten class, they weren’t sure they had enough English speaking students at the Kindergarten level to “make” a class- there were only about 10 Kindergarten students in that school who were from English speaking homes.

    When all was said and done, the Kindergarten teacher was obligated to have a two-level class, half Kindergarten, half 1st graders in order to justify dedicating a teacher and a classroom to the English speaking students. What the Kindergarten teacher and I both knew, as well as everyone else, was that if the situation had been reversed and there had only been 10, or even 5 bilingual Kindergarten students there would have been no issue- they would have had a teacher and a classroom for just those students.

    It seems that funds for bilingual teachers and classrooms are guaranteed, but not for English speaking students. Why? Because we just can’t violate the “rights” of the Spanish speaking kids by putting them in an English speaking classroom, but we sure as hell can do the opposite and put English speaking kids in bilingual classes. I still get angry remembering how the Kindergarten teacher and I wondered if his class was going to be dissolved, and the English speaking students forced into the established bilingual classes.

    The upshot of this is that with all our PC crap, it has been determined that children of illegal immigrants have more rights than students who are American citizens.

    PS- It is now 3 years later, he is in 3rd grade and has been fluent in English since about halfway through Kindergarten. Immersion in English not only didn’t hold him back, it made learning English easier for him.


    • TexasChem says:

      Another issue that jumps out at me from your post is why on Earth is it that taxpayers are paying for the education of non-citizens whos’ parents are not even paying into the taxation system?
      I am growing increasingly angry at our government for the misuse of our tax dollars.
      Uncle Sam alone received 37 thousand dollars of my and my wifes yearly income last year. I am a middleclass taxpayer and that is a considerable chunk of cash to me. Not to mention what I paid in other hidden taxes, state taxes etc.
      I am really, really pissed. I am pissed at the wealth redistrubution and the use of funds other than for issues I ahree with idealogically.
      Did I mention I am pissed? I do everything I can to enlighten family, friends, co-workers of the fraud being committed against the middleclass and it gets depressing to see how uneducated the majority are in regards to basic rights!

      • TC, are you pissed?
        Since this is the tax season, I hope everyone is taking a look at the bottom line. What did the Feds, states and local governments take from you this year. Income, SS, Medicare, and real estate taxes are all available at this time in glaringly large numbers. What is not glaring and should be is the total tax collected in the form of excise and sales taxes, corporate taxes and import duties (both included in goods and services), etc. etc. etc. See the list that TC posted earlier. All taxes have overhead associated with them both in the agency that collects the tax and the business or individual who pays it. Elimination and simplification would free up people and monies for other more worthwhile projects. It would be a boon to our economy.
        Does any one have a guess as to how much an average person pays in hidden taxes?

        • TexasChem says:

          I did the math on myself already.
          All total with all forms of taxation I am taxed a total of 42 cents on every hard earned dollar I make.RIDICULOUS.
          I challenge the rest of you to do your own math so you see I am not just making this figure up and pulling it out of thin air.

  37. A Puritan Descendant says:

    It is between innings here, so I want to share a thought before it slips my mind.
    I often wonder/wondered where such ‘alien thoughts’ of the far left ever came from. They always seemed so bizzare to me. While researching genealogy I noticed a flood of immigrants from country’s all over the world. This began about late 1800s and grew into the 1900s. Eastern Europe, Middle East, from places not seen here much before the late 1800’s.
    If they came mostly looking for a better life and not so much for ‘Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness’; What was being said around the dinner table? Maybe, “Gee, It sure is nice here, we have it much better than we did in the homeland, but I wish we could have a little socialism to make things more equitable, I work just as hard as my lazy boss…..”.

    These ideas planted into the heads of the children at the table. Millions of Socialist seeds planted, could explain the making today’s disaster in waiting.

    I am certain this not true for all immigrants of that time no matter where they came from, but it is a possible explanation.

    Ok back to the game.

    • Puritan

      Funny, I was mulling over the same question yesterday and today.

      I have not data but I am going to propose that it was largely the Germans and there exposure to Marx, socialism and Bismark.

      Also remember back to one of the Ayn Rand pieces I did where it was pointed out that our nation was founded on principles that were already under attack by philosophers and academics in Europe. We are the product of the dieing breath of the Enlightenment.

      Because the philosophical foundation was not clearly and concisely laid out for future generations it was easy for the new thinkers to begin polluting our culture with promises of a better life.

    • SK Trynosky Sr. says:

      Do not underestimate the power of the Great Depression. As I have pointed out, my elderly Pennsylvania relatives, until their deaths railed about “Mr. Hoovers Depression”. While these people thought conservative, loved the country, fought for it and its ideals, they were firmly in the Democratic Camp until Reagan and returned to it after both Bush’s. Not much different really than the post civil war through depression blacks who voted for Mr. Lincoln’s party without question .

      The ex psych major here who now in his later years wished that he’d kept up with it sees the whole thing as a victory of the left’s propaganda machine over anything else. They are the folks who master the 20 second sound bite. “tax cuts for the rich!” says it all. How in the name of all that is holy can you counter that?

      The Progressives which I admit I never rally started lumping together until Glen Beck were not immigrants, Dewey, Roosevelt the 1st, Wilson, House etc started this whole thing and they were not from Eastern Europe.

      Many immigrants came here looking for a better life. My own grandfather, a Russian, came from Galicia in South eastern Poland. My Dad said that he knew the streets were not paved in Gold and that he would not become rich but he had hope that his children would succeed far better than they would have in the old country, which they did. That was a family that worked hard, loved education and above all, believed in fairness and an equal playing field. They were susceptible to leftist propaganda on that issue. The conservatives did and do have a hard time explaining themselves to ordinary people. Reagan appealed because he could sell both a vision of that “shining City on a Hill” and he could engender trust.

      Two days ago was the 100th anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Manufacturing Company fire that killed some 146 garment workers, mostly girls in their late teens. Those not familiar should look it up. The girls had a choice of burning up or jumping from the ninth floor to their deaths. Leftist liberals used the anniversary to rail against corporate greed. Conservative Republicans seemed to (mind you I said seemed to) spend the anniversary making excuses for corporate America. I do not for a moment believe that my fellow right wingers don’t believe in sprinklers, fire escapes, safe working conditions or believe in locking in workers so they won’t steal but their rhetoric, grounded in “free market” ideals that are no more real than the Socialist nirvana sound like they have a lot in common with Simon Legree. Hey folks, we live in a real world. While we may aspire to ideals, we are not Gods, we are just people.

      I am going to recommend a wonderful book that I have been reading on and off for months. I normally race through books but this one was so special it should be savored, read page by page and returned to. It is a slice of time from a particular perspective. “Lost Battalions” by Richard Slotkin, Henry Holt Pub. 2005. Nutshell description: It is about the Lost battalion of WW I fame of the 77th NY National Guard Division and the equally famous all black 369th Infantry Regiment (old 15th Harlem Foot). The action takes up maybe a third of the book. The remainder is a slice of how life was in the US, specifically NYC in the years leading up to the War and the years right after. The Roosevelts are there, Wilson, House, Hamilton Fish, Al Smith, W.E.B. DuBois and whole gang more. Maj. George Whittlesey, the Commander of the lost Battalion is there,( a personal hero of mine) a Harvard Grad, Wall street lawyer, Socialist/pacifist who won the Medal of Honor along with the other Ivy League officers who led the tired, the poor and the wretched refuse. The entire book is really about the question, “What is and makes an American?”

      If you really want to know what was going on in the minds of the immigrants of the lower east side and the blacks of Harlem in the early 1900’s you will find it here. I personally defy you not to be cheering them on while being mad as hell about injustice when you finish.

  38. gmanfortruth says:
  39. TexasChem says:

    So we have a need for a New Bretton Woods according to George Soros and his wealthy elitist cohorts.Anyone care to propose what is at stake here?
    This man has singlehandedly brought about the progressive agenda to American society with his funding of multiple organizations with the intent of destroying the American moral fabric so that his ideas and beliefs can be taught in place. He endorses anything Un-American and that brings about a dividing block in our society.
    If a middleclass tax payer such as myself can do the research into this man and see his actions as criminal then why can’t our elected representatives? That is unless of course they are all on the same page with common purpose ehh?


    What I consider an pretty good article on the nature of revolutions and what it could all mean in our modern times.

    I suspect it might make a good introduction to the coming articles by our resident Black Flag.

    By the way, the authors closing conclusions are further evidence to me of why the odds are against us refounding the USA.

  41. Maybe it’s just me but I’ve been having a little problem lately. I have those on the left trying everything they can to make our voices moot-now I have some on the right-telling me the cause is lost, don’t vote, don’t do anything on the state or federal level to stop the left-both sides, whatever the difference in their endgame-seem to lead to the same place-making our voices moot and allowing the left to turn this country into a socialist hell hole without anyone even trying to stop them.

    • V.H.

      First we need to make sure we know what we mean when we say “the cause”. Part of the challenge is that there is no “majority” view on that first step.

      I do not think it lost, but I certainly think it is far more overwhelming than most folks give it credit. While on my house search I got to watch TV for three days. Quite frankly I felt truly “depressed” about our situation for the first time in years.

      As I watched the left and right try to rationalize a unilateral attack on a Nation State that had not threatened anyone. The arguments were telling and chilling to me.

      The powers that control this country are immense in their scope and strength. The task before us does seem insurmountable at times.

      I for one, recognize that I will not benefit personally from our effort. I would consider it a miracle if my children do. Grandchildren is more realistic.

      And I am afraid that the crisis BF portends will come far to quickly for us to be ready to take advantage of that situation. But it is our best hope for reducing the time frame. It will all depend on how bad the “collapse”.

      Let me offer this thought, I had this past week. We have little chance of serious progress until we see evidence of the “conservatives” openly discussing the problems with “corporations” and our supposed “capitalist system” that they are always bragging about. When the stop projecting the good of the capitalism onto the current fascism we have and start recognizing our system for what it is, that is when we have a real chance.

      That is when the left and right will join to overthrow the elite. But then we had better be ready to prevent our leftist allies from imposing their solution. See the above article I linked at the NYT if you haven’t already.

      I hope that helps a little with your problem. I know it is not the “no worries” speech you may have hoped.

      As for the voting, do not stop. But at the same time do not ignore the reality that we live with. Lets review how much difference the last election made. Notice how the few “radical right wing liberals” are being run over by the establishment Republicans?

      In other words, voting is not enough. Do not expect wholesale or even large changes from voting itself.

      • TexasChem says:

        JaC stated:”In other words, voting is not enough. Do not expect wholesale or even large changes from voting itself.”

        TC: I agree. I am not even sure that votes matter anyways since I am coming to believe that the elections are all just a stained glass masquerade. If you read the article I posted above and understand the situation America is in now, there can be no doubt that both parties are actually in cohorts together being played like marionette puppets by an elitist culture the average citizens knows absolutely nothing about.
        If those of you with the belief that the corporations are to blame then take a minute to view the United States as a corporation our government representatives as the board of directors and the citizens as the shareholders. IS IT TIME to SELL? The board has done a terrible job and needs to be replaced. Otherwise this “corporation” is going to be bought out on the auction block.

      • I wasn’t expecting a “don’t worry, be happy” answer 🙂 I am probably worried enough for the both of us. I simply have a question -what exactly are the “don’t participate on the state or federal level” trying to get people to do with there newly learned information-if they aren’t supposed to vote, protest or try to change the government. Are we just waiting for a collapse? Insuring a collapse? A bloody revolution? Allowing our country to turn into a socialist country in 1 election cycle? What?

        I’m all for reaching people in the hope of getting them to vote, to protest, to use every tool that we have and can come up with to change what is happening. But the idea that we should tell people to sit back and just prepare for the worse-or to only work at the local level-work at the local level to achieve what-if it isn’t to get the people involved to change the system at all levels ?

    • I am not ready to advocate giving up on voting, etc. But I am definitely at the point where I am limiting the resources I commit to it. In other words, if a chance to change things within the system is an illusion, what good is it to dump hours of time and effort and other resources into an illusion? This is not a give-up stance, it is an attitude of recognizing reality. Do I want to change the national level? Yes. Will I do it by voting for a libertarian presidential candidate and writing my aristocratic Democrat or Republican Congresspersons? No. So use those tools only to the extent they are effective.

      I will continue to vote. Part of this is a desire to set an example. There are people who have been so asleep that they havent even bothered to use the tools that are just an illusion, much less do anything real. The thing is, the enemy has grown so lazy and cocky that the illusory tools might actually do something if we got the right amount of support. So don’t give up on it totally, but count it sort of like playing the lottery as part of your retirement plan. It is a long shot, but might be worth the gamble on occasion. But you throw a dollar at it every now and then, whereas your real retirement plan you invest in with a real amount of resources. That is the call, not a “give up and let it all fall down” but a recognition of what is a real solution and what is not.

  42. A glimpse of multiculturism issues in France today.

    • And some people still believe we should just open our borders. Just ignore the obvious and sing “We are the World” Well the world is full of different beliefs and cultures and sometimes the differences are just too great to live peacefully together. So unless you want our culture to be destroyed from within and we are having that problem already with the progressive crowd -we better think about limiting the number of people who have radically different beliefs about freedom from immigrating to this country.

      • V.H.

        Utterly bizzare reasoning.

        You argue you want to prevent free people from coming here, because –they seek conflict with you

        Why would people leave where they are to go somewhere else where they are strangers so they can pick a fight?

        Some days I just shake my head at the mind tornadoes

        • TexasChem says:

          That’s not her point BF.
          The immigrant not assimilating into the host countries culture and society causing disruption is her point.
          If you want what my lands have to offer you must abide by my laws. I shouldn’t have to press 2 for Espanol or 3 for Arabic. I do not have to accomodate you. You want what I have to offer. I do not desire what I deem negative to my society. if you have something positive to bring to the table that benefits my people, well then, GREAT! If not *shrug* lose the negative.

        • TexasChem says:

          Let’s “flip the script” so to speak here BF.
          If I were to immigrate to an Islamic country and my wife didn’t want to wear a Burka should she be held accountable for it?
          I’m not seeking conflict with those people yet since I didnt integrate my family with their customs and culture then I face the repercussions of their laws and culture. Savvy? Or do you still think our reasoning BiZzaRe?

      • VH,
        Our culture is being destroyed from within, in fact, it is nearly gone already. Immigrants did not do this. Citizens did. Socialists destroyed our culture. We have absorbed massive numbers of immigrants without destroying the culture. It is not immigrants, that is a strawman at best. The problems with our culture were not caused by immigration, legal or otherwise, and the problems will not be fixed by restricting immigration, legal or otherwise.

        • No JOn, our cukture was destroyed by political correctness as a result of immigration…that is my opinion. We allowed it because we did not want to offend.

          • Bullpoopie.
            Immigration was around for many decades without political correctness, so obviously something else started it. I agree that political correctness is a big part of what destroyed our culture, but to think it was CAUSED by immigration is a serious stretch. What about immigration and political correctness makes you think that immigration was the cause?

            • TO me, the answer is simple. It is very true that immigration was around for decades and to no problem and that was because they came to America looking for a new life…not continuing the old livfe. They kept their religion and they kept their customs. They did not march in the streets demanding change to old country ways…as they do now. They did not demand recognition of their holidays…as they do now. They did not demand change in textbooks….as they do now. In addition, we now have a bleeding heart left that believes that they are poor and downtrodden and files lawsuits on their behalf….and political correctness has taken over and that political correctness, for the time being, is being aimed at immigrants. You know who is not marching and demanding? Asians….they come over here and adapt and kick our ass in schools and setting up new business’ and being legal and paying taxes. They are not sitting around taking advantage of our welfare and our benevolence. So the difference that I see….is the “new generation” immigrant that comes here looking for the free ride and using our laws to demand that we change to their ways and cultures. That is how I see it.

              If it was so great, why is it failing everywhere? Why, all of a sudden, are a host of Western countries suddenly denouncing this experiment as a failure and making statements that the immigrants are creating countries within their countries and are now going to control it with numbers? The cost to the taxpayor is tremendous and, I might add, that most of the immigrants are getting greater and better benefits than citizens. That is a shame. But, this is how I feel about it.

              • Oh, allow me to add that immigration and multiculturalism are one and the same. BUT……polticial correctness (fear of being called a racist) and the immigrant (individual) is not solely responsible for the failure of multiculturalism but it s the greater part.

                One last word…..being against multiculturalism and that movement has nothing to do with racism at all.

              • gmanfortruth says:

                Good Evening Sir! 🙂

                In short, most new immigrants head towards major cities, controlled by liberal Democrats. Liberals are the PC crowd, and they entice entitlements for votes. In my opinion, much of immigration has been hijacked by the liberal/progressives, as the new immigrant actions are, for the most part, identicle to the actions of liberal protestors. So the immigrants, by virtue of being brainwashed by the liberals, act in kind, to further divide the nation. Root cause= liberal/progressive agenda.

              • D13,
                It is a shame, and a result of the PC culture, that you had to even mention that racism and being opposed to open immigration are two seperate things. I know you are not a racist. I do think, however, that you are seeing the symptom and blaming it for the disease. If we were a free nation, which comes with risk, opportunity, and zero garauntees, I think you would see a very different class of immigrant. Furthermore, I see far more immigrants with a real idea of hard work and risk and what freedom really means than I do natural born Americans. Sure, there are the marchers and extremists, there always are, but as a percentage, more people coming here seeking a better life have a grasp of what America should be all about than the products of our education system.

              • SK Trynosky Sr says:

                There is a large problem here. Acknowledge first the weakness of human nature, if something is being given away for free, people will take it. In the old days there was pride, people would starve before they would take food stamps. Not today. The culture of entitlement has been on steroids since the ’60’s not because it was demanded by the people but because it was offered gratis. If you arrive here from let us say Mexico, do not join the culture and are a failure, then their must be someone who is holding you back. Who else but the white male. He has been holding back women, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, gays, transgendered people since the beginning of time. There is not a single liberal/progressive who does not believe this and who will not, at the drop of a hat pass on their opinion to any of these groups. If it is all they ever hear, why shouldn’t they believe it. Hell the media has us believing these days that perhaps the six to nine million Jews worldwide control the world and manage to oppress some 1.5 billion Muslims!

                Back in the day, to be public school teacher you more or less took an oath of loyalty to this nation and the values it was built on and stood for. Yes, those were the bad old days of the cold war, oh, did I forget to mention Communists are an oppressed by white males minority? This of course was anathema to all freedom loving people, left and right. Yet, I wonder if Lincoln was not completely wrong when he said during the Civil War that the Bill of Rights was not a suicide pact? If you are engaged in a struggle to the death with pure evil and ask for a loyalty oath from those that you entrust your most precious possession to, your children, are you really being a closet fascist by cutting off the opportunity for them to propagandize your children?

                I see it as all part of the same thing. Control their minds, control their actions and they deliver power to you.

          • SK Trynosky Sr says:

            Hmm have to go with Jon here Colonel. The Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Ecuadorians, Russians, Vietnamese I know who have assimilated into the mainstream culture are as disgusted as we are with the PC crowd. they, even more than us know it is a recipe for disaster. As I pointed out above, in the case of my own family, there was enough smarts in the uneducated, unwashed immigrant forebears to know how to get ahead and move forward. Problem today is that there are too many people telling them they do not have to. So, in a cart before the horse or chicken or egg analogy I go with the PC crowd starting the ball rolling. Remember it was Senator Robert Francis Kennedy (D. NY). who gave us bi-lingual education, something that I really do not remember anyone asking for at the time.

            • TexasChem says:

              We should buy Mexico and “flip” it.

              Invest in the infrastructure.
              Paint some houses.
              Build some roads.
              Build some factories.
              Build more resorts.

              Sell it to the highest European bidder…

  43. TexasChem says:

    What’s up with the “Russia” question JaC?
    Have you identified a habitable Earth-like planet in some distant system and have an interstellar craft capable of transporting a colony there? If so sign me up! 🙂

    That’s the only way I see of being truly free of the current worlds elite without an actual physical revolution taking place.

  44. TC

    The immigrant not assimilating into the host countries culture and society causing disruption is her point.

    Posulating a fantasy does not make an argument.

    By the nature of immigration, which is an uprooting from one place to makes roots in another automatically leads that the joiner is the immigrant, not the emplaced.

    Any “disruption” on a mass scale is either an invasion by force, or by some other systemic distortion in the receiving society. Other than invasion, it is not the fault of the immigrate!

    How can you possibly claim that a people massively outnumbered is the cause of the problem???

    • TC

      I shouldn’t have to press 2 for Espanol or 3 for Arabic. I do not have to accomodate you.

      Now you are telling me how to set up MY phone system???

      Go to H.LL!

      You have no right to tell me how to answer my phone, what to put on a message, on a sign etc.

      • And TC has every right to not to do business with you as a result. Chill

        What you do with your phones/business is your decision. However, our government which should be promoting unity through a common culture of which language is a part, is bending over backwards to keep recent immigrants, including the reported 20M here illegally, speaking their native tongue much longer than has happend in the past. ESL is a prime example as are foreign language ballots and driver’s license tests, etc.

    • TexasChem says:

      BF STated:”Any “disruption” on a mass scale is either an invasion by force, or by some other systemic distortion in the receiving society. Other than invasion, it is not the fault of the immigrate!”

      TC: Why my good sir I agree! The unchecked multitudes streaming in through our countries southern border illegally plus the tens of thousands allowed in from their countries in the middle east under the pretense of being “refugees” from war torn countries seeking political sanctuary can definitely be considered an immigration “invasion”. Especially under the current administrations lax immigration stance.

      By the way I am not postulating fantasy remarks. They are facts that can be backed up by evidence based upon reality. Go ride your yellow polk-a-dotted unicorn elsewhere!

  45. V.H.

    don’t participate on the state or federal level” trying to get people to do with there newly learned information-if they aren’t supposed to vote, protest or try to change the government. Are we just waiting for a collapse? Insuring a collapse? A bloody revolution? Allowing our country to turn into a socialist country in 1 election cycle? What?

    Please review Part One and Two, and soon coming article Part Two -Demi, then Part Three will start the answer.

  46. A Puritan Descendant says:
  47. SUFA

    Sometimes it just seems eerie how a string of stories come together on the topic at hand.

    Can We Save America??? From American Thinker.

    Please read and enjoy. Oh, and please note what it is the author thinks needs to be addressed before we start changing the furniture.

    • JAC,

      It has been difficult and heart-rending to watch over the years what has happened to a nation we have all come to love.

      “‘5 stages of grief” still interferes with the what is necessary.

      In order to awaken at least a part of the populace it has taken an imminent financial and societal disaster and the election of President Obama, who personifies the excesses of the past sixty years.

      What ever part awoke, went back to sleep.
      “This time it missed me! Everything is fine for now”

      He is someone steeped in radical re-distributionist ideology; he is dishonest, as he is a believer in the end justifies any means; and he is dominated by an overweening narcissism.

      Name 10 Washington politicians who are not similar?

      “Who ya goin’ to call???, because who you are calling is not answering the phone”

      Replacing the President by electing politicians who will make some cuts in spending or modifying entitlement programs

      Fantasy and fairy tales.

      It is beyond naive to believe there exists politicians ready to toss their constituency into the Great Depression by advocating any cuts.

      Thus, all politicians advocating delay and a promise “one day” the problem will be addressed.

      If you believe that day will come, you are naive.

      The only factor that can truly alter the future is a change in the hearts and minds of the people and their leaders. The foibles of human nature are hard to overcome without a massive national catastrophe as a catalyst.

      It is impossible to overcome without a catastrophe – there is no motive to do so otherwise.

      The founders of the United States were aware of the failings of mankind and as a result tried to establish a government structure which mitigated those traits. That structure is still in place

      Which is why nothing will change and a new way is necessary.

      Perhaps finally men will know that one cannot create a common good by instituting a great and terrible evil.

      but more importantly the people and their leaders must re-constitute American society wherein honor, integrity, self-reliance, restraint, and respect for one’s neighbor are paramount. These attributes will also ultimately solve the nation’s long-term financial woes and insure the future.


      Do not look to Washington, look local.

      • TexasChem says:

        BF Stated:”It is impossible to overcome without a catastrophe – there is no motive to do so otherwise.”

        TC: Kinda like 9-11? Be prepared for something even worse in the near future. The United States propoganda machine is the most funded in the world. The US dollar will not collapse, ever… it may evolve into something else in time but it would not serve the powers that be to lose their finely honed war machine. The economic and military might of the US has no competitor during the entire recorded history of Man.

        • TC,

          prepared for something even worse in the near future

          How’s that be workin’ for ya?

          According to your theory, because of the attacks in Somalia, Kenya, the USS Cole and the Marine barracks, the US should have been more than ready for 9/11.


          So contrary to 100% of history, you believe you can prepare for “something worse” – when you have no idea what that will be.

          This is exactly how tyranny goes.

          • TexasChem says:

            My post went entirely over your head it seems BF.
            I believe 9-11 was indeed known about beforehand by the powers that be and used by the propoganda machine to justify the ME foreign excursions.

            No one will be prepared for whatever calamity this “machine” will approve next. I’m just saying I wouldn’t want to live in any large metropolitan area in the immediate future…

            • TC

              While there may be many reasons not to live in a city, fear from terrorism should not be one of them.

              You have better odds of dying in 3 feet of water, then being killed by a terrorist.

              • TexasChem says:

                Well that depends upon your definition of terrorist I suppose.
                I believe there to be agencies within our own government that fulfill the definition to be labeled as “terrorist”. But hey thats just my personal opinion.

                Anyone other than me find it ODD as hell that the uprisings in the ME happening at the same time?
                Does anyone find it ODD that NATO is helping rebels in Libya that were once considered enemies?
                Does anyone find it ODD that these uprisings are helping to place into power a huge geographical Islamic Political Machine that will only strengthen with time?

                Perhaps the good ole US of A could be nurturing a new enemy to justify some future moves in this game of world chess were having…

            • Three men can keep a secret.. if two of them are dead.

              In order for the government to have known about and sanctioned 9/11, how many people must have know? At the minimum, say, 100? That’s the President, VP, joint chiefs, staffers, whoever typed up the report, whoever reviewed the initial intelligence, whoever gathered the initial intelligence, and so on.. probably 1000, if we’re honest with ourselves.

              The government is nothing if not a bureaucracy, and that means that it’s not very good at keeping secrets. No, I admit that it is possible, sometimes and for a limited duration, for a group of people to keep a secret, but not one that results in thousands of deaths. There would be defectors with evidence and the truth would leak.

              No, incompetence is the answer to this riddle.

  48. Mathius,

    Re: Conspiracies

    In order for the government to have known about and sanctioned 9/11, how many people must have know? At the minimum, say, 100? That’s the President, VP, joint chiefs, staffers, whoever typed up the report, whoever reviewed the initial intelligence, whoever gathered the initial intelligence, and so on.. probably 1000, if we’re honest with ourselves.

    Not at all.

    A real-world experiment demonstrated that it merely required 5 people – the rest simply “did their duty and obeyed orders” and were sufficently in the dark regarding the whole event as not to be able to put it together.

    Remember that in this, there are dozens of red herrings done as well; other pointless maneuvers that obscured things. While one order to NORAD may have sent the operators on some “war games”, other orders like “practice emergency refueling techniques”, or “go wash the nuclear missiles”, etc. were also given – so that the “real” conspiracy is buried under a mass of other, similarly innocuous, orders.

    The TV show “Jericho” – last season shows how easy a conspiracy to nuke the US could be achieved. (PS: This series ranks up with “Firefly” in my list)

    The government is nothing if not a bureaucracy, and that means that it’s not very good at keeping secrets.

    Exactly in both counts.

    It does not have to keep any secrets.
    It merely follows its orders.

    How many times have you heard from an moronic bureaucrat –
    Yeah, I know its stupid, but this is the way we have to do it and that’s my job – so bend over and touch your toes….

    No, I admit that it is possible, sometimes and for a limited duration, for a group of people to keep a secret, but not one that results in thousands of deaths. There would be defectors with evidence and the truth would leak.

    There are defectors with evidence and the truth is out.

    Ever hear about WTC-7?

    Ever hear about Flight 77 flight recorder – whose path on the recorder could not be the flight path of the plane that hit the Pentagon?

    But there is so much “other stuff” around this that it becomes hard to separate the real truth from the distractions.

    No, incompetence is the answer to this riddle.

    Perhaps – but it cannot explain buildings falling down that were not hit, and planes flying two paths at the same time.

  49. TC

    Anyone other than me find it ODD as hell that the uprisings in the ME happening at the same time?

    Not one bit.

    When one people see another seizing freedom, it empowers themselves to act too.

    History has many examples: the rise of “Liberty” – from America in 1776 into France 1789 and the rest of Europe…. or the rise of Communism, 1917 Germany to throughout Europe to China 1933…

    The only difference – those era’s were limited by the speed of communication – today, the internet makes it nearly instant – thus, the acceleration of the domino effect.

    Does anyone find it ODD that NATO is helping rebels in Libya that were once considered enemies?


    The typical idiocy of entering a battle that should not be a concern always makes you end up on the “wrong side” – because there is no “right” side in a fight that does not concern you.

    Does anyone find it ODD that these uprisings are helping to place into power a huge geographical Islamic Political Machine that will only strengthen with time?

    It is inevitable by the doctrine of Great Powers.

    The Great Powers -in their doctrine of “you are with me or you are against me” – destroyed any indigenous, non-radical political movements.

    They put in tyrannical puppets – who destroyed any competition including the non-radicals – which only left the extremists to resist the tyranny.

    So, the choice for the people: the puppets or the radicals.

    • TexasChem says:

      Now you’re following my thought process but not expanding upon the why…
      I’m just trying to look a few moves ahead in the chess game.

      • TexasChem says:

        Ahhh…here we go.

        Iranian Video Says Mahdi is ‘Near’

        New evidence has emerged that the Iranian government sees the current unrest in the Middle East as a signal that the Mahdi–or Islamic messiah–is about to appear.

      • TC,

        The rise of another Saladin for the Muslims is about the same thinking as the rise of another Christ for Christians.

        Both sects spend a enormous amount of time discussing, dialoguing, preparing, arguing about what would be seen by both religions the same event. Even the Jews would get involved – but they would call “him” their first messiah.

        • TexasChem says:

          Just read the article…
          I’m not debating what the religions doctrinal beliefs are. We both are well versed in that aspect.
          I’m asking you what is being implied geo-politically and how you believe the west is going to react to the events about to unfold if Iran indeed pushes forward with this. Duh… 🙂

          • TC,

            Ok, here is my take:


            Iran cannot project its power much past its own borders.

            Iran is Persia and the region is sick of being ruled by Persians. Persians are sick of ruling the region. It never worked out well for either side.

            A religious revival is about as likely as a Catholic revival in the US – maybe… but a whole lot of “unlikely”.

            The clerics have no pull outside their little cabal in Iran. They only have tacit support of the people because the clerics ousted the Shah, but that memory is getting old.

            Religion fundamentalism is a unifying force for any group – whether in the US or in the Middle East – it may come to play in the area. But it is not a long term strategy as the goals of each nation and sub region are so very different.

            But then i could be all wrong.

      • TC,

        It’s good sport to try to figure out what is going to happen next. I only really play at the geo-poltical and economic eventualities – the specific “walk to there”…(shrug)

        In specifics, I find it wholly futile.

        Heck, the guys with the best info, the likes of the CIA and NSA where completely caught by surprise by:
        (0) the attacks of 9/11
        (1) the resistance in Afghanistan
        (2) the resistance in Iraq
        (3) the economic explosion in China
        (4) the economic collapse in Europe and USA
        (5) the sudden turmoil in Tunisia, lighting fires in Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Bahrain , Saudi, Syria, etc.

        …. and these guys spend billions trying to know these things.

        You and I – well, if we get one right in the specifics, believe me, it won’t be knowledge or skill, but sheer dumb luck

        • TexasChem says:

          Hrmmm…Perhaps in my mind I suppose I am just seeing a pattern of events that seem to be manipulated.
          I must be reading too many conspiracy theories as of late… 🙂

%d bloggers like this: