Tonight we return to the article that some liked and others thought was interesting reading but not relevant to today’s political discussions. G-Man has been working for quite some time reading and researching these different parts of this article. And this evening we finally get to take a peek into the information that he has found. I know that for some of you, your initial reaction is that this qualifies as conspiracy theory and therefore is a waste of your time. But I submit to you that it isn’t a waste of your time. I will explain why below. That being said, this is G-Man’s article and not mine. While I see the value, I am not the one who did the research, so I am not at a point yet where I can say that it is all true or all false or anywhere in between. Much like any other “conspiracy theory type” information, I think there is inherent value in giving it daylight and exposure so that the issues can be discussed and either confirmed or debunked.
What is important to remember here is that much of the discussions around psychological experiments and mind control testing is NOT conjecture or theory. We have documented evidence that this type of action has been taken by many governments around the world, including our own. And it isn’t a partisan issue. While many on the left are more than willing to believe that horrendous torture techniques were used by our government during the Bush Presidency, they are often unwilling to admit that what they are seeing is the action of the US federal government, not one party or another. Since the turn of the century, testing and experimentation has been conducted in many different areas and has been conducted in both Republican and Democratic administrations. What we are talking about are the depths that our government is willing to go in order to figure out how to do what they want to do, be it controlling its citizens more effectively or finding a more effective way to destroy our enemies.
Think back to the torture at gitmo. The left wanted to lambast the GOP over the horrendous things they did. And then all of the sudden it came out that Nancy Pelosi was in on the game as well. Oh she does a good job of attempting to duck and jive, but the bottom line is that Democrats were using it as a political issue when the reality is that they were part of it too. And that is how these things play out. The two parties are only enemies in the public eye. They together do all of these things. And they tell themselves that they do it to protect us from ourselves, and that they will simply deny it if it is exposed. I point that out not to call Democrats hypocrites, but to point out that this is not a partisan issue. Both sides are responsible. This isn’t a Republican versus Democrat issue. It is a citizen versus government issue.
And that is why it is a relevant topic. Look back at all the horrible things that the federal government has done over the past century to its own people. The examples below are documented and are only a part of what went on. Are there any of you who would deny that our federal government has done many of these horrible things? If the answer is no, the question becomes more pressing. What makes you think a government capable of the things we know they did has changed? What makes you think the current crop of asshats in Washington DC are more ethical or less capable of similar actions today? And if that is the case, why on earth would you trust them? I’ll tell you why. Because facing the idea that you cannot trust them is even more scary than a Nancy Pelosi and John McCain leaked sex tape.
So give G-Man’s ideas some thought. Enter into the discussion. Challenge what you read. Accept the conclusions that you come to if you discuss with an open mind. That is how I am going to approach this conversation. So I turn this article over to G…..
Is the Government Killing Us? Part 2: Mind Games
by G-Man
How would you react if you woke up one day and found out that everything you believed your whole life was a lie? Everything about your past has changed and now you have to try and understand it all. All our lives, the Government and the media has painted the picture that we view as reality. Is that picture painted with lies?
Today, I’m going to present a study of the history of the U.S. Intelligence Community, Human Rights violations, and electromagnetic weapons technology, from Sonoma State University, completed in 2006. My main purpose is to find logical ways to detect the lies we are presented with each day by the media and government, and use their “mind games” against them. During discussion, we will hopefully hear from a poster on his experience with the illegal surveilence that interfered with his life, and develope a test of sorts that can be effectively applied to determine truth in what we are told, today, tomorrow, and in the past. Imagine discovering the possibility that the “Cold War” was all BS to empower and enrich the “Elite”. I will present some of the study and comment on the different areas, for the full study go here:
http://www.mindjustice.org/censored12-06.htm
Let’s get the ball rolling!
In the 1950’s and 60’s the CIA began work to find means for influencing human cognition, emotion, and behavior. Through the use of the psychological understanding of the human being as a social animal and the ability to manipulate a subject’s environment through isolation, drugs, and hypnosis, US funded scientists have long searched for better means of controlling human behavior. This research has included the use of wireless directed electromagnetic energy under the heading of “Information Warfare” and “Non Lethal Weapons.” New technological capabilities have been developed in black budget projects over the last few decades— including the ability to influence human emotion, disrupt thought, and present excruciating pain through the manipulation of magnetic fields. The US military and intelligence agencies have at their disposal frightful new weapons, weapons that have likely already been covertly used and/or tested on humans, both here and abroad, and which could be directed against the public in the event of mass protests or civil disturbance.
How many times have you heard something repeated often, and aimed at your emotions? Often called Psychological Warfare, these techniques have been perfected and are applied far more often than any of us could imagine. An example would be AGW and it’s appeal to our emotion of fear. If we fear something, we will follow like ducklings follow mama duck.
For the 2004 Election, your only choice was which member of Yale's secret Skull and Bones Group you liked better!
A long thread of sociological research documents the existence of a dominant ruling class in the US that sets policy and determines national political priorities. The American ruling class is complex and inter-competitive, maintaining itself through interacting families of high social standing with similar life styles, corporate affiliations, and memberships in elite social clubs and private schools.
Ah yes, the “Elites” are among us.
Leo Strauss, Albert Wohlstetter, and others at the University of Chicago’s Committee on Social Thought receive wide credit for promoting the neo-conservative agenda through their students, Paul Wolfowitz, Allan Bloom, and Bloom’s student Richard Perle.
Canadian cultural review magazine Adbusters, defines neo-conservatism as, “The belief that Democracy, however flawed, was best defended by an ignorant public pumped on nationalism and religion. Only a militantly nationalist state could deter human aggression …such nationalism requires an external threat and if one cannot be found it must be manufactured.”
I found this rather disturbing. If a threat cannot be found it must be manufactured. If this is how the “Elites” stay empowered and enriched, should we not question everything in our past? Questions like, who the hell decided after WWII that Communism was the enemy? Was it a coincidence that when the “Cold War” ended we suddenly had “terrorism” at our doorstep? The Soviets were the “Evil Empire”, but who decided this, and what basis of proof did they have? They didn’t need proof, they just scared the shit out of everyone with Nuclear war propoganda and “programming” our young people in the 50’s and 60’s to believe this threat.
Today the combination of political climate and technological capability presents a condition in which widespread manipulation of, not only the flow of information through the media, but also the manipulation of the emotional states and cognitive ability in large populations could be achieved. If policy elites are unaccountable to the public for their actions, and the public has been emotionally manipulated to support them, we can assume that they will certainly abuse their positions in the pursuit of their agendas.
How many of us have been “emotionally manipulated” recently? In our lifetime? Obama is the current “king” of this type of manipulation. (My guess would be that you would all have to say it has happened at one time or another. One side of the political spectrum was manipulated into supporting the Patriot Act. The other side was manipulated into believing that the march towards socialism was a good thing…USW)
Crest of Army PsyOps
Psychological Warfare, Information War, and mind control may seem to be exotic topics, but the impact of these technologies and techniques is profound. Our minds are being impacted through a longstanding series of programs aimed at manipulating public opinion through intelligence agencies, think tanks, corporate media and a host of non-governmental organizations designed to engender fear, division and uncertainty in the public. Media manipulation involving the artificial framing of our collective reality is often a hit or miss proposition, but psychological operations have been carried out in the past, and are being carried out even today, through the practices of “Information Warfare,” directed at enemies abroad and at the American people
Modern Psychological Operations (Psy-Ops) were significantly advanced in the Second World War and were brought to bear on the American public during the 1950s with the formation of a widespread network of social scientists, journalists, politicians, military specialists and intelligence operatives. Psy-Ops were used to promote a variety of programs in cooperation with the Industrial Military Complex. Their key piece of information warfare was the Communist Red Menace.
It is important that we understand how the government is trying to control us. By appealing to our emotions, they have been given permission to act, even when it’s a lie. The recent Healthcare issue is a prime example. “We cannot allow for people to be denied healthcare coverage because of pre-existing conditions” This is an emotional appeal to garner support for the takeover of healthcare. It is constantly repeated, and it is a useless lie. The insurance industry would be going nuts against this if it were true. If one reads the Senate bill being used mostly to what is being presented, it does not mandate the insurance industry to cover treatment of pre-existing conditions. It can’t be enforced if it’s not in the law.
The CIA, in association with various other agencies, undertook a long series of experiments on unsuspecting prisoners, students, military personnel and others recruited into one of the at least 162 subprojects of what became known as MKULTRA. Interest was certainly piqued by the case of Cardinal Mindseztny and the reports of brainwashing techniques used on American soldiers in prisoner of war camps in Korea. But even prior to the Korean War the resiliency of the human mind was being tested by researchers on the black budget. These projects reportedly at times violated every conceivable notion of human rights and dignity.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
Mind Control
The evidence that continues to become available, is frightening to realize that we allowed this to happen. Manufactured fear over decades could lead to the complete loss of our freedom. Look at the technological weapons that can be used to control the population if we were to get frisky:
Project Sherriff Humvee
Project Sheriff
The US has deployed the Project Sheriff active denial weapon in Iraq. Raytheon outfitted Humvees with their Silent Guardian Protection System, a device capable of heating the skin to 1/64 of an inch, causing instant pain similar to intense sunburn, with the goal to facilitate dispersing a crowd. According to a report released by the Air Force on the human effects of this weapon, people with contact lenses and those wearing metal suffered greater effects. An imprint of a coin was discovered on the skin of a test subject and death or severe heart problems may occur.
Pulsed Energy Projectiles
Pulsed Energy Projectiles (PEPs) are another form of weaponry that is used to paralyze a victim with pain. According to New Scientist magazine, the expanding plasma effects nerve cells, but the long-term effects remain a public mystery.
There is more, but you should get the idea of what can be used against us.
Thanks to the internet, a group of people have come together, they call themselves “Targeted Individuals”. Their claims include illegal surveilance, being used a test cases for non-lethal weapons, and gross harassment by the government. Their stories are a small look at what our government may be doing with the general public.
I found this study to be well written and presented. I have concluded, after all this research that emotional appeals need to be questioned everytime they occur, regardless if it’s from the corrupt media, or the corrupt government. Together we can look deeper in the past and discover if those emotional appeals were real or not, develope a criteria to apply to future emotional appeals, to determine truth. The past is the key to the future.
Here are some other links pertaining to this subject:
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MCC409A.html
Torture
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Project_MKNAOMI
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Operation_CHAOS
http://www.rense.com/general31/cyc.htm
http://www.ask.com/wiki/United_States_casualties_of_war
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1016-06.htm
PsyOps
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Psychological_Operations_(United_States)
Black Flag®
commonman55
d13thecolonel
gman
Just A Citizen
Life of Illusion
Jon Smith
USWeapon
Stand Up For America 
I definately feel manipulated, and have for some time. The elites have been jerking us around for YEARS! Look how they’ve got us fighting each other about race. Now some brain donor has decided that ethnicities are ‘races’ and that we must list our ‘race’ on the census form, or ELSE! Assclowns!!!! That’s THEIR race! That’s right, we have a race of assclowns running the country!
Funny I didn’t see that on the Census form. Oh, that’s right, members of Congress aren’t people. They are mindless bureaucrats. The census is only supposed to count people.
But you make an important point Cyndi. The “ruling class” in this country have spent a lot of time and energy finding as many ways as they can to divide the American people. It has proven an effective strategy. We are too busy calling each other names to hold them accountable. What is a shame is how easy it has proven to be to manipulate the population. Many liberals think conservatives are religious zealots and tea party folks are racists. White feel blacks are bigger racists while blacks feel the opposite. Conservatives think that liberals are bleeding hearts who hate individual liberty. The rich hate the poor and the poor hate and blame the rich. The reality is that all of those things are somewhat true, but only because of the same manipulation that had people believing they were true! How circular is that?
The real battle in this country is between liberty and tyranny. Unfortunately, there is NO ONE in the federal government on either side of the aisle that is on the side of liberty. But I won’t rant any longer and sidetrack G-Man’s discussion.
USW
And so as SUFA times progress the ASSCLOWN has morphed into a race….only at SUFA!!
I have only one serious question for G,
Since we humans are addicted to our music videos, televisions and computer enhanced movies – and it is a long proven fact that subliminal hypnotic suggestions actually do work . . . Why go to all the expense and trouble to develop these so-called “Magnetic mind controls” (quotations are for emphasis only) and other gadgets to control large crowds?
In the past water cannons, tear gas canisters and horses have worked wonders for dispersing crowds. More recently the Taser and sand bag “bullets” have proven just as effective.
Personally I just don’t see why all the secret weapon stuff would be useful when those who have been trying to subvert our population are and have been teaching our gullible young in the public school system and our universities for decades now. That proof is in all the “Obamatrons” that are out there who voted for him (several of my family members fall into that category since I hail from Washington State, one of the most liberal states in the union).
Sorry, G, but I just do not seem to be able to buy into that kind of conspiracy theory.
`Nuff said from me on this.
Good Morning PapaDawg!
You asked: Why go to all the expense and trouble to develop these so-called “Magnetic mind controls” (quotations are for emphasis only) and other gadgets to control large crowds?
I wonder the same thing Papa. Speculation is all I can offer, and that would be that maybe thay are needed for “really large” crowds !?! I simply do not know. It’s good that we know it’s out there, if nothing else, to stay out of their way if we happen to get caught in the middle of a mudfight.
I’m not entertaining a conspiracy theory at all. The main idea is to understand their methods, learn how to identify when it’s happening (not the fancy machine stuff), and develope methods to counteract their BS. There are far more questions than answers about the past, and if we want to predict future behavior of our all powerfull government, would it not be wise to fully understand their past behavior?
We are a very divided nation, religiously, racially and politically. If we can find ways to undo that, I can only see good coming from it.
Peace my Friend!
G!
Why use high tech for applications that are done just fine with low tech? Because it is sexy, shows how smart, inovative, forward thinking, etc. you are. Why did we spend $$$$ to develop a pen that would write in space when a #2 pencil did the trick? Why are we spending $$$ for touch screen voting machines that are used 3 times a year, will be obsolete in 5 years, are difficult to setup, and can be invisibly tampered with when a #2 pencil works just fine with one scantron machine per precinct? We are suckers for high tech. Simple, cheap solutions to problems are more often more difficult to come by than complex, expensive solutions. When I am designing an instrument, I constantly remind myself and my colleagues of this. Congress has yet to discover this as they have just demonstrated. Funny how e could write document to run an entire country in a few short pages but need 2k+ pages for health care.
Your comment sets me up perfectly to again stress the KEEP IT SIMPLE theme. Technology, for all it’s positives including internet, is a liability in a way. If a national emergency or even natural disater should occur how many people are really ready to deal with it. All that technology is worthless because you still have to fend for youself in the end. I realize that technology would then be there to save the day but whats the turn around time? Months, years, who knows?
I think everyone needs to consider simplifying their lives. There’s just too much everything….politics, media, the newest gadgets, too much work, too much fast pace. Takes up to much space in the head. No wonder we’re running off the cliff. Slow down and start just living….THEN maybe we can start really talking about freedom & liberty…
That’s just my 2 cents from an every day American.
Good question-let’s add another one-why can’t people give you correct change without their register giving them the amount. Is it that we are being trained that anything a machine can give you the answer too, isn’t worth wasting the time learning. We will be in a world of trouble if all our little gadgets ever break.
Shoooot V, They’re even questioning what’s the point of learning cursive in the schools anymore. All of the “cursive” is done at the keyboards these days. I’m not buying it… Just let the power grid go down and watch the helpless stumble…
I like all the gadgets but we do rely on them too much. To much reliance and to complicated to boot.
Thats easy, they want to be able to control crowds that do not listen to their subliminal stuff. That would include:
A) crowds in foreign countries, such as breaking up a revolt in Saudi Arabia because they are threatening an oil deal with the existing powers.
B) A revolting American population, made up of people like you and I that are not addicted to MTV.
Most importantly, in today’s world, water cannons would not be accepted by the American people. This would allow them to achieve their goal without risking personnel or looking bad on camera, mostly the latter. I don’t know if I can say with certainty that this is true or not, but it is plausible and there is definitely sufficient motive.
Jon Smith is correct.
The gatekeepers depended on information gates (or “choke points”) to manage the message – FCC and the tight government control over the media outlets.
The gatekeepers are still there – the walls around them have all the holes – such as the Internet.
Most people still use the gates – but simple numbers show it does not take many to bypass the gates to be a “problem” for the elite.
Thus, more overt manipulations and tools are needed.
Also remember, Papa, people who KNOW they are being manipulated slowly become less susceptible to being manipulated.
I have to wonder how much of this obvious manipulation is more people just choosing to buy into what they want to believe-not sure how much people are actually being manipulated as they want to be manipulated.
My thoughts are that everyone here at SUFA is hip to this mind control stuff so I don’t think you really have to sell the idea here. It’s the zombie public that needs to see this kind of stuff. How are you going to get this message to the masses?
Just ask Cyndi P. She’s got all the info you could possibly need to show the govt is laying the groundwork to control the public when the SHTF.
-~ OPERATION PAPERCLIP ~-
~Wikipedia – “Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45)…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
~Note the cat on LSD at 1:23 🙂
~Note 4:15 – 4:46 quote from 1962 CIA manual “Radio-hypnotic intra-cerebral control”.
Defense Intelligence Agency Seeking “Mind Control” Weapons
by Tom Burghardt
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9931
Military Use of Mind Control Weapons
by Judy Wall 1998
http://www.whale.to/b/wall.html
Yes I believe the population is being manipulated through the MSM, TV shows, movies, some radio and the education system. Hollywood pushes the liberal agenda. We are surrounded by liberalism and cannot escape it. When all you hear is liberal theory and propaganda you end up believing it.
I believe the government also engaged in mind control experiments through LSD and other drugs and programs. There are probably such experiments going on today.
I think the government has always manipulated people in one way or another. It was probably difficult to manipulate mass populations 200 years ago but it is much easier today with mass media. The internet is changing that since anyone can currently use it. We are no longer captive to newspapers or 3 news networks.
As far as the Cold War goes, I’m sure there was manipulation. However, there were idological differences between western capitalist based countries and the Soviet Union. Western nations, primarily Great Britain and the USA, did not like the Soviet Union prior to WWII. The Soviet Union did not trust the west. We became forced allies during WWII when Germany invaded Russia. It would not last after the war. Stalin was in charge at the time and he was a paranoid and evil man.
President Clinton Apologizes for MK Ultra:
Bill Clinton – ” Thousands of government sponsored experiments DID take place…at hospitals, universities, and military bases around our nation…some were unethical, not only by todays standards, but by the standards of the time in which they were conducted. They failed both the test of our national values, and the test of humanity The United States Of America offers a sincere appology to those of our citizens who were subjected to these experiments, to their families, and to their communities…”
Testimony from Dr. Wolfe:
Testimony of victim Christina Coleb (spelling?
Testimony from another victim:
http://www.cchrint.org/tag/manchurian-candidate/
There is a lot of data here G. Nice work. I think that it is hard to deny that at least a lot of this is happening, at least on some scale.
Coast to Coast AM radio show with guest Roger Tolces #1 of 12:
Here’s a site with a gazillion interesting links.
http://educate-yourself.org/mc/
~COINTELPRO~
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
SUPPLEMENTARY DETAILED STAFF REPORTS
ON INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES AND THE
RIGHTS OF AMERICANS
BOOK III
FINAL REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE TO STUDY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS WITH RESPECT TO INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES UNITED STATES SENATE
APRIL 23 (under authority of the order of April 14), 1976
COINTELPRO: THE FBI’S COVERT ACTION PROGRAMS AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIa.htm
A Short History of FBI COINTELPRO
by Mike Cassidy and Will Miller
http://www.albionmonitor.com/9905a/jbcointelpro.html
COINTELPRO – Answers.com
http://www.answers.com/topic/cointelpro
Teens get spied on with cameras on school issued laptops:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/02/school-under-fire-for-spying-on-kid-via-webcam-at-home.ars
Adlai E. Stevenson College
Ellen Sukiel UC Santa Cruz introduces Professor Jonathan D. Moreno for lecture on…
“Ethics of Human Experimentation for National Security Purposes”:
Hello G. I know it’s been awile since I’ve been on. My angaer and frustration with this farce and political comedy we call the Federal Government has come down to that I could care less anymore. My nerves and heart absolutely cannot take anymore.
We don’t have a Federal Government, what we have is a joke. Would they mess with our health? Why hell yes they would and have! Ask any Vietnam vet with Agent Orange poisoning. They sprayed that shit all over them without regard for what it would do to our men later in life. Just aks my pappy.
And this Health Care Bill. This will turn out to be the means of the destruction of our entire economy. 70% of the country was against it. Did it matter? Hell no!!
Will they kill us off early to save money? You bet your ass they would. Not right off of course. They’ll give it a few years to percolate first. Then start off slowly so that no one notices, and so that Obama is safely out of office so it can be blamed on whoever is in office at the time it’s discovered. The American people are such morons. They,ve already passed the damn thing and we still know half of what’s in it.
Sorry for my ranting but I have a lot of frustrations right now. And I’m tired of screaming at the TV. Hope your day sucks as bad as mine does. (jus’ kiddin’)
Your internet buddy,
Esom Hill Gazette
C’mon Esom…You might be down but you’re not out. You’re falling for it. Now is when we really have to step up and fight. If you still feel the exact same after November then you can toss in the towel and I will too. I feel we’ll at least be seeing a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel come November but its still going to be a rough ride to the other side.
Step back Pirate….it’s the weekend 🙂
Esom, check out my site. I posted a probable course of action . . .
Hey Esom!
I feel your frustration. Ranting sure helps and we listen. I thinks it’s time to use their own games against them, prove they are lying and call them out. Embarrassment is a great people fix.
Glad to have you back!
G!
Welcome back friend.
US Electromagnetic Weapons and Human Rights
By Peter Phillips, Lew Brown and Bridget Thornton
As Study of the History of US Intelligence Community
Human Rights Violations and Continuing Research in Electromagnetic Weapons
Completed December 2006
Sonoma State University
Project Censored
Media Freedom Foundation
http://www.mindjustice.org/censored12-06.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Morgan-Buys-Newspapers9feb17.htm
J.P. Morgan Interests
Buy 25 of America’s Leading Newspapers
and Insert Editors
U.S. Congressional Record February 9, 1917, page 2947
Congressman Calloway announced that the
J.P. Morgan interests bought 25 of America’s leading newspapers, and
inserted their own editors, in order to control the media.
The CHAIRMAN: The Chair will recognize the gentleman from Texas, a member of the [defense appropriations] committee.
Mr. CALLAWAY: Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert in the Record a statement that I have of how the newspapers of this country have been handled by the munitions manufacturers.
The CHAIRMAN: The gentleman from Texas asks unanimous consent to extend his remarks in the Record by inserting a certain statement. Is there any objection?
Mr. MANN: Mr. Chairman, reserving the right to object, may I ask whether it is the gentleman’s purpose to insert a long list of extracts from newspapers?
Mr. CALLAWAY: No; it will be a little, short statement not over 2 ½ inches in length in the Record.
The CHAIRMAN: Is there any objection?
There was no objection.
Mr. CALLAWAY: Mr. Chairman, under unanimous consent, I insert into the Record at this point a statement showing the newspaper combination, which explains their activity in the war matter, just discussed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. MOORE]:
“In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, ship building and powder interests and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press in the United States.
“These 12 men worked the problems out by selecting 179 newspapers, and then began, by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary for the purpose of controlling the general policy of the daily press throughout the country. They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. The 25 papers were agreed upon; emissaries were sent to purchase the policy, national and international, of these papers; an agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.
“This contract is in existence at the present time, and it accounts for the news columns of the daily press of the country being filled with all sorts of preparedness arguments and misrepresentations as to the present condition of the United States Army and Navy, and the possibility and probability of the United States being attacked by foreign foes.
“This policy also included the suppression of everything in opposition to the wishes of the interests served. The effectiveness of this scheme has been conclusively demonstrated by the character of the stuff carried in the daily press throughout the country since March, 1915. They have resorted to anything necessary to commercialize public sentiment and sandbag the National Congress into making extravagant and wasteful appropriations for the Army and Navy under false pretense that it was necessary. Their stock argument is that it is ‘patriotism.’ They are playing on every prejudice and passion of the American people.”
~ OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD ~
Wikipedia – “Operation Mockingbird was a secret Central Intelligence Agency campaign to influence domestic and foreign media beginning in the 1950s.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
Operation Mockingbird: CIA Media Manipulation
By Mary Louise
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/mockingbird.htm
Part 2
Operation Mockingbird –
3-24-00
Operation Mockingbird –
The Subversion Of America’s Free Press By The CIA
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/mockingbird2.htm
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/003POF03NewspaperPublishers04271961.htm
~Note you can listen to the speech by clicking on the (Listen to this speech)link provided – It’s 19:11 long
The President and the Press: Address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association
President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel
New York City, April 27, 1961
Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen:
I appreciate very much your generous invitation to be here tonight.
You bear heavy responsibilities these days and an article I read some time ago reminded me of how particularly heavily the burdens of present day events bear upon your profession.
You may remember that in 1851 the New York Herald Tribune under the sponsorship and publishing of Horace Greeley, employed as its London correspondent an obscure journalist by the name of Karl Marx.
We are told that foreign correspondent Marx, stone broke, and with a family ill and undernourished, constantly appealed to Greeley and managing editor Charles Dana for an increase in his munificent salary of $5 per installment, a salary which he and Engels ungratefully labeled as the “lousiest petty bourgeois cheating.”
But when all his financial appeals were refused, Marx looked around for other means of livelihood and fame, eventually terminating his relationship with the Tribune and devoting his talents full time to the cause that would bequeath the world the seeds of Leninism, Stalinism, revolution and the cold war.
If only this capitalistic New York newspaper had treated him more kindly; if only Marx had remained a foreign correspondent, history might have been different. And I hope all publishers will bear this lesson in mind the next time they receive a poverty-stricken appeal for a small increase in the expense account from an obscure newspaper man.
I have selected as the title of my remarks tonight “The President and the Press.” Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded “The President Versus the Press.” But those are not my sentiments tonight.
It is true, however, that when a well-known diplomat from another country demanded recently that our State Department repudiate certain newspaper attacks on his colleague it was unnecessary for us to reply that this Administration was not responsible for the press, for the press had already made it clear that it was not responsible for this Administration.
Nevertheless, my purpose here tonight is not to deliver the usual assault on the so-called one party press. On the contrary, in recent months I have rarely heard any complaints about political bias in the press except from a few Republicans. Nor is it my purpose tonight to discuss or defend the televising of Presidential press conferences. I think it is highly beneficial to have some 20,000,000 Americans regularly sit in on these conferences to observe, if I may say so, the incisive, the intelligent and the courteous qualities displayed by your Washington correspondents.
Nor, finally, are these remarks intended to examine the proper degree of privacy which the press should allow to any President and his family.
If in the last few months your White House reporters and photographers have been attending church services with regularity, that has surely done them no harm.
On the other hand, I realize that your staff and wire service photographers may be complaining that they do not enjoy the same green privileges at the local golf courses that they once did.
It is true that my predecessor did not object as I do to pictures of one’s golfing skill in action. But neither on the other hand did he ever bean a Secret Service man.
My topic tonight is a more sober one of concern to publishers as well as editors.
I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes may be for the future–for reducing this threat or living with it–there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its challenge to our survival and to our security–a challenge that confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity.
This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President–two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.
I
The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.
But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country’s peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of “clear and present danger,” the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public’s need for national security.
Today no war has been declared–and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.
If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of “clear and present danger,” then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.
It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions–by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.
Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints of national security–and the question remains whether those restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose this kind of attack as well as outright invasion.
For the facts of the matter are that this nation’s foes have openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or espionage; that details of this nation’s covert preparations to counter the enemy’s covert operations have been available to every newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign power; and that, in at least in one case, the publication of details concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and money.
The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well-meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted.
The question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the nation, in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities, if I did not commend this problem to your attention, and urge its thoughtful consideration.
On many earlier occasions, I have said–and your newspapers have constantly said–that these are times that appeal to every citizen’s sense of sacrifice and self-discipline. They call out to every citizen to weigh his rights and comforts against his obligations to the common good. I cannot now believe that those citizens who serve in the newspaper business consider themselves exempt from that appeal.
I have no intention of establishing a new Office of War Information to govern the flow of news. I am not suggesting any new forms of censorship or any new types of security classifications. I have no easy answer to the dilemma that I have posed, and would not seek to impose it if I had one. But I am asking the members of the newspaper profession and the industry in this country to reexamine their own responsibilities, to consider the degree and the nature of the present danger, and to heed the duty of self-restraint which that danger imposes upon us all.
Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: “Is it news?” All I suggest is that you add the question: “Is it in the interest of the national security?” And I hope that every group in America–unions and businessmen and public officials at every level– will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their actions to the same exacting tests.
And should the press of America consider and recommend the voluntary assumption of specific new steps or machinery, I can assure you that we will cooperate whole-heartedly with those recommendations.
Perhaps there will be no recommendations. Perhaps there is no answer to the dilemma faced by a free and open society in a cold and secret war. In times of peace, any discussion of this subject, and any action that results, are both painful and without precedent. But this is a time of peace and peril which knows no precedent in history.
II
It is the unprecedented nature of this challenge that also gives rise to your second obligation–an obligation which I share. And that is our obligation to inform and alert the American people–to make certain that they possess all the facts that they need, and understand them as well–the perils, the prospects, the purposes of our program and the choices that we face.
No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary. I am not asking your newspapers to support the Administration, but I am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. For I have complete confidence in the response and dedication of our citizens whenever they are fully informed.
I not only could not stifle controversy among your readers–I welcome it. This Administration intends to be candid about its errors; for as a wise man once said: “An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” We intend to accept full responsibility for our errors; and we expect you to point them out when we miss them.
Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed–and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy. And that is why our press was protected by the First Amendment– the only business in America specifically protected by the Constitution- -not primarily to amuse and entertain, not to emphasize the trivial and the sentimental, not to simply “give the public what it wants”–but to inform, to arouse, to reflect, to state our dangers and our opportunities, to indicate our crises and our choices, to lead, mold, educate and sometimes even anger public opinion.
This means greater coverage and analysis of international news–for it is no longer far away and foreign but close at hand and local. It means greater attention to improved understanding of the news as well as improved transmission. And it means, finally, that government at all levels, must meet its obligation to provide you with the fullest possible information outside the narrowest limits of national security–and we intend to do it.
III
It was early in the Seventeenth Century that Francis Bacon remarked on three recent inventions already transforming the world: the compass, gunpowder and the printing press. Now the links between the nations first forged by the compass have made us all citizens of the world, the hopes and threats of one becoming the hopes and threats of us all. In that one world’s efforts to live together, the evolution of gunpowder to its ultimate limit has warned mankind of the terrible consequences of failure.
And so it is to the printing press–to the recorder of man’s deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news–that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help man will be what he was born to be: free and independent.
Church Committee
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Church Committee is the common term referring to the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, a U.S. Senate committee chaired by Senator Frank Church (D-ID) in 1975. A precursor to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the committee investigated intelligence gathering for illegality by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) after certain activities had been revealed by the Watergate affair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
The COINTELPRO Papers
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents from the FBI’s Secret War Against Domestic Dissent is a book by Ward Churchill and Jim Vander Wall. It is a history of the FBI’s COINTELPRO efforts to disrupt dissident political organizations within the United States. It reproduces many original FBI memos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_COINTELPRO_Papers
60 minutes – Lesley Stahl – Reading Your Mind
Robot with a rat brain.
Rat Brain Robot
Maturity!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/gop-senators-refusing-to_n_511639.html
Yes, I know it’s HuffPo.. yea yea yea..
Paybacks!
I don’t know about you, but here at the grownup table, we don’t shut down unrelated hearings in a hissy fit.
I don’t believe any of the politicians in DC have a place at the grown up table.
That doesn’t invalidate it. HuffPo has plenty of good articles and thoughts. What the GOP is doing is childish. But you can’t really blame them. The Democrats in the Senate used dirty tactics to pass the bill. So they are doing dirty tactics right back at them. Should be fun to watch. But I bet Obama will continue to say he attempted to bring the two parties together.
Epic Fail.
Russian Mind Control Weapons:
New 2005 Information and Brief Update
by Cheryl Welsh
(Cheryl Welsh, director of CAHRA [now Mind Justice] listed as one of six Non-Lethal Weapons Experts in the world in UNIDIR, United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research 2002 Media Guide to Disarmament in Geneva.)
September 2005.
Russians speak openly and pass laws on russian mind control weapons
while the US says US mind control is classified or does not exist.
Here is critical information rarely reported in US press.
http://mindjustice.org/russ9-05.htm
How appropo…… Swine Flu anyone? After all they did say it would come back with a vengence in the Fall….
A million man Army in the USA, indeed…and NEVER let a crisis go to waste.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=132001
DOCTOR’S ORDERS
Obamacare prescription: ‘Emergency health army’
Force subject to ‘involuntary calls to active duty’ during ‘public crises’
——————————————————————————–
Posted: March 25, 2010
11:40 pm Eastern
By Chelsea Schilling
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
President Obama’s recently passed health-care reform legislation includes a surprise for many Americans – a beefing up of a U.S. Public Health Service reserve force and expectations that it respond on short notice to “routine public health and emergency response missions,” even involuntarily.
According to Section 5210 of HR 3590, titled “Establishing a Ready Reserve Corps,” the force must be ready for “involuntary calls to active duty during national emergencies and public health crises.”
The health-care legislation adds millions of dollars for recruitment and amends Section 203 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 204), passed July 1, 1944, during Franklin D. Roosevelt’s presidency. The U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps is one of the seven uniformed services in the U.S. However, Obama’s changes more than double the wording of the Section 203 and dub individuals who are currently classified as officers in the Reserve Corps commissioned officers of the Regular Corps.
Cyndi,
My eldest, the Army Reserve captain thinks that this USPHS proposal is a great idea. If first surfaced after 9/11 in the Republican Congress as a way to enhance our capabilities on a reserve level to deal with large war contingencies without permanently expanding the uniformed services. Since Bush was all for running the war on the cheap (manpower wise), he never pushed it. There is a sort of reserve right now which gets no promotion points, pay or retirement credits for what they do. This would rectify that also providing them with continuing education which my son says is what really gets them to want to be involved. In addition, the USPHS is back filling right now for the military. they are providing the PTSD counselors and working on suicide prevention. USPHS is even providing Professional Engineers for the Army Corps of Engineers to fill slots that the military can’t.
There is enough really god-awful stuff going around out there. One of the reasons I sent this off to junior was to clarify what was going on. He signed off. He’s pretty level headed and a bit of a contrarian. Hope that this assuages some of your concern. Let’s keep concentrating on the real nightmares fearless leader has unleashed on us.
I got to pat myself on the back though. By accident the wife and I produced four kids. The eldest is a lawyer(unfortunately government) who also has a Masters in Public health. The older twin is an Air Force maintenance Officer. The other twin is a mechanical engineer and the baby is a speech/language pathologist. Between them they can field almost any question I ask while I can give them History/Political answers. Nirvana!
Hi SKT,
The problem I have with all the crap Dear Reader is doing, is that it reminds me of the Iranian nukes. Everything that is said, when taken at face value and by itself is benign enough, HOWEVER, it can just as easily be used for another purpose. Given what is known of Dear Reader’s background, his associates, and the hatefulness of the Left in general, my intuition is sending up warning flags. I must admit, when I’m doing something I don’t want someone to know about, I cloak my actions with believable excuses, such as my accumulating silver coins. My boyfriend believes that its just because I like coins in general, which I do, but I never felt the need to change my financial planning to get them like I have in the last year. If he suspected the real reason, I’m sure I’d hear about it during an argument about what his so-called president is doing to our country. I engage in this sort of deceptive behavior frequently, because it works. I’ve got a bit of the devil in me, just enough to know another devil when I see one. 🙂
Cyndi,
While I don’t begrudge you for your feelings about the President, I offer a bit of caution. Often, when we know that someone isn’t a good person, we assume that every action that they take is evil. I think there are some very good reasons to question the motives of the President, for many of the reasons you believe and others. But even if he is as bad as you believe, and even if his intent is to ruin the country as you believe, that doesn’t mean that every single action should be assumed to fit the bad mode. I imagine from your perspective, better safe than sorry is the mantra. And I understand that mantra.
However, when we fall into the trap of PRE-judging the actions of others we remove our own ability to see things objectively. What I have heard about the group you and SKT are talking about matches what his son has found, that the program was proposed by Republicans and is actually a fairly good idea. Perhaps more digging is needed, but we must not fall into the trap of judging the action based on the perception of the person taking that action, but instead must judge the action itself on its own merits. You may find that it is as bad as you imagine, or you may find that it is a benign action, or even a good one. There is plenty of bad to pin on Obama and the Dems, but let’s ensure we do it judiciously or we end up being no better than those that accept everything he does as good without looking at it.
USW
Hi USW,
I’m not sure I’m prejudging here. I just see how this can be abused. President Bush was supposed to be worse than Hitler, yet Bush didn’t make half the power grabs Obama is making. Just because Obama throws a few crumbs to the masses to distract them, doesn’t make his action ‘good’. Obama hasn’t done anything to earn my trust. Until he does, I’ll remain suspicious of his motives. Definately a case of Better safe than sorry. I’ve learned the hard way that its the way to be.
I hope I don’t sound to harsh. I’m just really stressed out about what I see happening.
Oliver North Questioned – Rex 84 Exposed During Iran Contra
FEMA plans on suspension of the US constitution exposed during Iran contra hearings. Oliver North is questioned by Jack Brooks
The Active Denial System (ADS)
Active Denial Microwave Weapons
BLUEBIRD
Deliberate Creation of Multiple
Personality by Psychiatrists
By Colin A. Ross MD
A 10-Page Summary
http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
Greetings from Pennsylvania 🙂
I would hope at this point of the day that everyone can see and understand that this subject has played a big role in where we are politically and in most cases, why we believe some things. I have used this knowledge to question many things about the past, but that may not be the most important lesson for me.
I believe I have developed a solid strategy to pick out the BS from the truth, in almost anything that anyone says. I begin with a question, is what the person saying trying to appeal to my emotions? If the answer is yes, procede with further questions of the subject. The really big red flag is if the same emotional appeal is repeated often. I have found that an emotional appeal, repeated often, has in every case I have tested, resulted in the facts being quite different than what was presented. I dug deeper in these cases and found the real truth, which was not what was being presented.
Use this method to seek the truth about anything, and may find something out that one would not believe at first. I will try and present some examples over the next 48 hours to show how this can work for all of us, not just in getting to the truth, but in debating those that rely on emotions as their basis of debate.
Peace my Friends!
G!
Here is an example of my methods:
Obama traveled to the hometown of Natoma Canfield, a cancer victim who wrote the president that she gave up her health insurance after the cost rose to $8,500 a year. Obama repeatedly has cited that letter from a self-employed cleaning worker who lives in the Cleveland suburb to illustrate the urgency of the massive overhaul.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/President-Obama-Talks-Health-Care-In-Ohio/PH5vJwsmokOeJS33z6xosg.cspx
Though Canfield’s sister Connie Anderson said her sibling is afraid she’ll lose her house and Obama warned at an Ohio rally Monday that the patient is “racked with worry” about the cost of tests and treatment, she is already being screened for financial help.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/15/clinic-cancer-patient-wrote-obama-lose-home-aid/
As you can see, this emotional appeal was repeated often in an attempt to mislead. It met bot criteria of the need for more investigation.
The sick women (who I hope gets better) is a self employed houes-cleaner, being self employed for 12 years or so. Her health insurance cost rose substantially. Not because she was sick at the time, but because she hit an age that triggers an increase (much like some life insurance policies). Obama woould lead us to believe that her story is a strong example why we needed this reform, but failed to mention the true facts. As quoted in the above link : Lyman Sornberger, executive director of patient financial services at the Cleveland Clinic, said “all indications” at the outset are that she will be considered for assistance.
“She may be eligible for state Medicaid … and/or she will be eligible for charity (care) of some form or type. … In my personal opinion, she will be eligible for something,” he said, adding that Canfield should not be worried about losing her home.
“Cleveland Clinic will not put a lien on her home,” he said.
As you can see, a oft repeated emotional appeal is not the whole truth in this case. Every test of this kind, over the last month has resulted in the same findings.
Oh Kathy???
Can you say ELITE EIGHT?
You knew I’d be here. I’ll be gone for the day but I’ll check back
and now…”How about the Final Four?”
OMG – I am in a pool where we pick each round (has tons of $$ in it due to all the upsets). I pick against MSU every single time (Big Ten pride blah, blah, blah) so perhaps I am responsible for this success?
Please continue to bet against them!
GO GREEN
OFF TOPIC
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/20100327obamas_health_insurance_rule_-_it_was_a_gop_idea/srvc=home&position=recent
Mandatory health care was a Republican idea according to the AP.
The first person I remember promoting the idea was Republican Bob Dole. Mitt Romney is now pushing repeal of the healthcare bill, but as Gov. of Massachusetts he required all to purchase health insurance. Scott Brown supported it too. Be careful who you trust !!!
Oh, and don’t forget to sign up for the new long term care program in our new healthcare bill. Up to $240.00 per month.
Perhaps something like these?
* monopoly of the right to initiate violence upon the non-violent…
* The use of violence on non-violent people…
* Taxes are “evil” theft…
* All the big terrible “isms”…
* Death Panels
* Paling around with terrorists
Need more?
And looky here – another emotional appeal…
How many people here have said:
“I didn’t realize how bad it was until I started reading SUFA…”
or
“I was naïve in the past not to see all of this…”
or
Something along those lines?
Does it ever occur to anyone that fear and emotion are being used here too?
How many predictions of doom and gloom have been made here?
How many have occurred?
Is it a coincidence that the right-wing “patriot” groups last resurgence was 17 years ago?
And they abruptly faded away 15 years ago?
Does anyone here know what the triggers were back then?
Remember that DHS report from about a year ago?
It’s starting to look like that report was right on target…
I see someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
I acknowledge many of your points. Except there are a few things you fail to note. Taxes as theft has ben a common claim here. Agreed. However, what you fail to note is that when you take the definition of theft, it sure fits. There has been talk of the isms. But when you look at the definitions of the isms, the comparison is accurate. What you are objecting to is the fact that some people call a spade a spade. You don’t like it because you don’t choose to believe that things are what they are.
No, I don’t think that it is a coincidence that “right wing patriot groups” have a resurgence every time that we have a government move that creates entitlement and usurps the Constitution. What is interesting is that you fail to hold the left accountable for what they have been doing ever since the 60’s. There are far more left wing groups out there that have been active, and more violent in general, than right wing groups. The environmental groups, gay rights groups, etc. In general those types of groups have been far more violent. Code Pink comes to mind, or maybe environmental groups that burn housing developments.
And what we see in violence today seems to have little in the way of substantiated fact. Personally, I think that the members of Congress are lying about many of the things that they are claiming. I don’t believe that one of them was spit on. Despite a 10k reward offered for such, not a single person has come forth with any evidence to support such a claim. You have had literally millions of protesters in the tea party movement, and no violence from them at all. The best we can come up with is a random claim of a brick being thrown through a window. Compare that to left wing folks attempting to throw acid on delegates as they exited a bus for the GOP convention during the last election. I think that what you have done is fall into a double standard. As I have said, I am willing to look at and acknowledge the issues on the right, but you seem to only see them on the right and ignore those on the left. That DHS report was a sham, and it ignored the fact that the violent groups are just as likely, often more so, to be on the left. If the report had acknowledged that it would have been an accurate report. Instead, it was exposed for what it was, nothing more than political gamesmanship that will be believed out of hand by folks unwilling to see the same on their side.
As for doom and gloom predictions, I don’t believe that I have made many doom and gloom predictions outside of my belief that at the current rate the country is headed towards some form of revolution. History bears out that this is a pretty reasonable conclusion. And even as the masses grow more vocal and angry, you claim that none of that has occurred. The only other doom and gloom I recall claiming was that the stimulus bill was a fraud and that we would see the economy worsen despite it. Thus far, Todd, I think I have been proven correct.
I absolutely agree that all the things you said about questioning what you read here is what should happen. I never, ever expect anyone to take what I say for granted. I present my opinion and attempt to explain it. Everyone should be analyzing what I say for accuracy and evaluating what I present on its merit and fighting past the emotion that I have in my writing. I applaud that you and others do so. I think that I have thus far created what I wanted to create: a site where differing opinions are welcome and discussed with respect and integrity.
Thanks for your thoughts, Todd.
US Weapon,
Wrong side of the bed? Nope. Actually wrote most of that last night and then slept on it.
Please show me the definition of “theft” that fits taxes.
And the definition of the “isms” that fits the USA.
The last time there was a resurgence of the “right wing patriot groups” was after Clinton was elected. If that was because we had a government that creates entitlements and usurps the Constitution, why didn’t it happen during the Bush administration?
That resurgence abruptly faded away after the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. What will be the end-game this time?
I have nothing but distain for the left-wing extremist groups. They do a disservice to their causes by going to extreme measures.
I consider myself an environmentalist, but very much middle-of-the-road. There has to be a balance between the environment and human activity. But the environmental groups that burn housing developments are ass-holes that give those who want to clear-cut the world for more McMansions any easy excuse to declare all environmental laws unfair.
So you think the members of Congress are lying? What evidence do you have of that?
The Washington Post has a pretty good review of last weekend’s events:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032002556.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032103484.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
The only violence that isn’t substantiated by fact is the bullet thru Eric Cantor’s office window. Police determined it was a stray bullet, not an attack on his office.
There is this incident:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/tea-party-protesters-bera_n_504183.html
And then this apology from the guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/25/tea-party-protester-apolo_n_513398.html
This is the type of “mob mentality” that leads to real violence. I’d like to see it toned down before violence occurs…
Again, I have nothing but distain for extremist groups on both sides. But the left gets plenty of press here. I’m just pointing out that it occurs on the right as well.
For the DHS report, I believe there were TWO reports about left-wing extremists and one about right-wing. But you were only outraged by the report about the right.
I agree you have not made the doom and gloom predictions. That’s someone else’s area!! 😉
But in general, every generation is accused of leading the county into the ground by their parents, and then turns around and accuses their kids of doing the same! These types of predictions have been going on as long as I can remember – and we’re still here…
From the legal dictionary: Theft – A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person’s consent.
From West’s Dictionary: Theft – the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker’s use.
From Wiki: In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person’s property without that person’s freely-given consent.
now please tell me where taxes taken from me without my consent and re-distributed to others who didn’t earn it DOESN’T qualify as theft. Or is it only theft unless the government does it?
I would say that forms of communism, fascism, and socialism are all present in modern day politics. You know the definitions, and you know where they apply. It is you that takes umbrage with a spade being called a spade. Should we be forced to make up a new thing to call the isms simply because you don’t like what the government is doing called this particular ism? Socialism is socialism. We have made plenty of moves in that direction over the last 50 years. Yet you want me to not call it socialism because you don’t like that socialism is an emotional word. What else would you like me to call it?
You are correct sir, and pray tell, what was the the big movement afoot 17 years ago? That would be Hillary’s health care. So was the movement because a Democrat got elected, or was it because as soon as a Democrat was elected, one of the first things he did was move to inject government into health care? Now, if you want to say it was right wing groups and why didn’t that happen under Bush? Why would right wing groups get upset with a right wing President? That is silly. But what we did have was a outpouring of left wing patriot groups when Bush was in office. Code Pink and the like. And let’s not forget the protests with Bush portrayed as Hitler and the whole “dissent is patriotic” mantra. Weird, a rise of groups from the right when the left has power and a rise of left wing groups when the right has power. Whatever could explain that? As I said, I can recognize the right, apparently the left is simply outside of your objective view.
I readily acknowledge that it happens on the right, but why when it happens on the left it is the fringe extremists yet when it happens on the right, Cesca and HuffPo get to exclaim that the entire movement is a racist movement with nary a peep from folks like you?
That would be because I have never heard of or read the report on left wing groups. Care to share it? And I wonder why no one heard about those other two reports about left wing groups? I mean the media was quick to trumpet the report about right wing groups immediately to their eager followers. Why didn’t they share the dangers presented by left wing groups with equal zeal?
Overall, I agree, I would love to see things calmed down before it gets violent. But the mob mentality exists in large part because people feel that their voices are no longer heard. They could be right or they could be wrong, but that is how they feel. And given the way that Congress in general proposes bills that the public has zero chance of understanding, holds meetings in back rooms with no access, and ignores anyone who voices dissent, I certainly understand why they feel they are not being heard. I certainly feel that way myself, and I have gone above and beyond to contact my officials and respectfully voice my opinion.
US Weapon,
Just one thought tonight:
You’re upset I didn’t repudiate Cesca and HuffPo, but just tonight you called members of Congress liars about what they experienced with the Tea Party protesters?
I think you need to speak out against the Tea Party protesters that are doing those things, and not protect them by calling the members of Congress liars.
More tomorrow…
Fair points Todd. But I am just trying to apply a little logic to my thinking. That isn’t to say you aren’t, just that I mean to explain myself. What we have over the last 6 months is a massive move in the media and the world of politics to label the tea party movement as racists. Then all of the sudden we have a known liar, Barney Frank, claiming someone yelled an anti gay slur at him. And the members of the black congressional caucus, who find just about everything to be racist, claiming that the tea party people yelled racial slurs at them. At that point, which is more likely? That members of Congress continue to build on their most effective strategy to denounce the tea party movement, claiming they are racists. OR members of the tea party who know they are being painted as racists openly yelling racial epithets to give more ammo to the groups trying to denounce them.
Either could be true. I hope that you can see that. What I have not seen is anything more than a couple of accusations from some suspect members of Congress. Barney Franks who lies consistently and the Congressional Black Caucus which lacks the ability to see anything outside of a racial connotation. Did those things get yelled at them? I don’t know. If it did, then I think the people who yelled them fall into the piece of crap bucket, and I absolutely repudiate them. But I think it is at least as likely that the members of Congress are stoking the fire. That seems to be a game that they play on both sides of the aisle on a daily basis. I simply acknowledge that could be the case here as well. On the flip side, we have Cesca and HuffPo. We have their epithets, racism cries, and threats in written form for all to see. There is no question that they said what they said. I warned Cesca that if they kept up these constant claims of racist at everyone, it would get to the point where people simply stopped believing any of it.
The Parkinsons video was sad and a bit scary. I applaud the guy for coming forward and apologizing but that does nothing to make up for his actions in the first place. The crowds have been getting rowdier it seems, but I still contend that they are generally less violent than typical Code Pink or Gay Rights protests. And no one was throwing any acid in the guys face. There is no place for the treatment that man had to put up with.
RE: Tea Party
No need to speak out against them.
They are an unfocused, leaderless grassroots which started from zero to representing 25% of Americans in less than 2 years.
That’s power.
And it’s unstoppable as it has no center.
Can’t argue too much with this guy:
Hi Anita 🙂
I think that this violence has as more to do with the abortion issues than political views. I’m not surprised that the MSM would not consider this, it’s easier to tell lies to the public and keep the devisiveness full steam ahaed.
G!
Hey G: Wrong! this video is speaking directly about recent events since healthcare. Been trying to get a post over here from RedState which is where I got the vid from. It’s called Cui Bono?: when attacks & threats are convienient… Great post
I have been to a Tea Party where Kevin spoke, I’ve read his book and I have talked to him face to face for a few minutes, he is awesome.
“But the mob mentality exists in large part because people feel that their voices are no longer heard”
Personally, I don’t feel that our voices aren’t being heard, I believe they are being ignored and our views are being belittled and ridiculed by no less than the President of the United States. The snide little remarks that he makes against a large percentage of the people of this country shows that he is not a leader and he is certainly not concerned with trying to fix the divide in this country. There are many people out there voicing their disdain for the people on the right and the left, the man is supposed to be the President to all and not lower his self to this kind of attack.
Right V- He doesn’t want to be a leader, he wants to be a ruler. I agree. He’s gloating way too much for a president making himself and the presidency look foolish.
VH and Anita,
I would state these comments a little different, but in general I agree. I do not like some of the comments that Obama and members of his administration have made. Everyone needs to raise above this childish behavior, and as president, Obama should be setting the example.
His speech in Iowa was unbelievable. To actually taunt a section of the American public – what a classless individual.
Kathy:
Obama is an agitator. That is where he has experience. He is doing what he knows how to do. He will never bring the country together since he does not share the majority views of most citizens. Ignore him, his speeches and his words. Change the channel and pay no attention to him.
US Weapon,
The key word is consent. I guess you feel we have not granted consent. I feel we have.
Taxes are part of an organized society and government. By living here you agree to follow the laws, which includes paying taxes. You can work to change those laws to your liking by voting for representatives that share your views, expressing your views to others so they vote for the same or similar representatives, or run for office yourself.
But if we all decide which laws we’re going to follow and which laws we’re not, it’s not much of a society.
There have been some discussions here about ways to fund government without taxes. I haven’t seen a solution. Do up have one?
I like this definition of our economy:
It’s not a spade being called a spade. It’s emotional rhetoric.
Is was because a Democrat was elected and the right lost.
Exactly!! This is my point! It’s not about policy, it’s about ideology.
No, the left is not outside of my objective view. I view them both the same – ideology.
You’re the one who is trying to paint the right as policy and not ideology.
I remember discussing this report when the right-wing report came out:
January 2009:
Click to access Leftwing_Extremist_Threat.pdf
Here are two others:
May 2008
Click to access dhs-ecoterrorism-in-us-20081.pdf
March 2008
Click to access dhs-rnc-transport-infra-2008.pdf
Maybe because the left didn’t make a big deal about the reports like the right did?
I read an article the other day about the government taking over student loans. The author of the article made a comment that has stuck with me because I think it showed a clear picture of how socialism works. He said, not an exact quote because I cannot find the article but close: It almost makes sense for the government to nationalize student loans since they give so many subsides to support it. Now lets look at how social programs begin-usually small and there just to help people-but then over the years they are increased and the programs grow. Then finally they grow big enough that it is reasonable for the government to nationalize them. Pretty slick, don’t you think. So please tell me how you are so sure it can’t happen here?
Todd,
You are typical of many who succumb to emotionalism as an argument.
When faced with real objective argument, you’re completely out of your league.
I work hard to offer concrete and complete definitions. You don’t. So mine always win. You hate that.
So these are all definitions – you can argue whether they are complete or correct – but that is NOT the same as an emotional plea.
* monopoly of the right to initiate violence upon the non-violent…
* The use of violence on non-violent people…
* Taxes are “evil” theft…
All “isms” are labels – and as a tool – like generalizations – offer a short cut to understanding when immersed in a dialogue – but fail when applied specifically to an individual.
I, personally, don’t like labeling for that reason, since many of my arguments are placed at the feet of individuals and their actions.
My forecasts for the future also come with my arguments – I offer the current affairs, and consequences which – reasoned – will create a conclusion (a predictions in your words).
The best you’ve come up with is “I don’t think so” – and wholly unable to provide anything but a fantasy in place of argument. Yours is the emotional appeal – appeal to fantasy – to ignore the cause/effect state of all human action. You wish on magic – and in that state, complain that others are emotional against it!
How many have occurred?
So, far – every single one of them….
Black Flag,
I just love it when you tell me what I’m thinking. It’s makes life so much easier when I don’t have to think for myself.
But that’s the problem – you don’t discuss issues, you lecture on what is the only correct answer. There is no room for debate – you have all the answers.
For your definitions, it is obvious the wording has been carefully selected for maximum impact. You don’t propose low taxes and small government, or no taxes and no government, and explain the benefits of that. You declare all government EVIL & VIOLENT and all taxes THEFT!
Words like EVIL, VIOLENT, and THEFT are very emotional words. The images they evoke in people are not pleasant. To claim that these are just definitions and not an emotional plea is ridiculous.
And to accuse me of using emotionalism as an argument when EVIL, VIOLENT, and THEFT are your arguments is equally ridiculous.
There’s no doubt you always win in your mind. That doesn’t bother me in the least.
The same thing for all the “isms”. These are ideologies that have caused much humane suffering in the 20th & 21st centuries. These are also used to invoke an emotional response.
Every single one of your forecasts has come true?
* Price of Gold
* Bank Holiday in August 2009
* Israel bombs Iran in 2009
Those are just off the top of my head…
Todd,
I reread what I wrote – don’t think I said I’m doing your thinking.
I explaining emotionalists.
There exists object truths and their opposites.
Sorry that you expect me to listen to lies and fallacies – but that’s not my style.
I’m not sure you’ve offered much of a debate.
You’ve typed a lot of words – but debate…hmmm….
I am very plain in my definitions.
A little stealing IS better than a lot of stealing.
But that doesn’t suddenly also make it RIGHT.
Do you understand this very important ethical and moral concept?
I’m not sure where you fall off the logic.
Government requires the use of violence on non-violent people to enforce its edicts.
You do not deny this, because if you did, you’d be an idiot and I don’t think you are.
I define evil as using violence on non-violent people.
If we cannot call inflicting harm and suffering on innocent people evil, then the word has no meaning – period.
Using a bit of Logic 101 – that which requires evil for its existence must be evil
So, where do you fall off the truck here?
Taxation is the taking of money by force.
You do not say about a robber – because he spent his stolen loot well its ok to steal.
Yet, that is what you say to me about taxes!
That’s call hypocrisy, Todd – doing something and over here, condemning it, but over there, defending it.
.
They carry connotations – which I defend in my arguments. They do not stand alone.
The actions to which they are attached are unpleasant – in fact, down right ugly, cruel, and inhuman at times.
They are not a “plea” – they are defined.
A plea stands alone – that is why it is a “plea” – a begging.
Mine ARE defined.
Because you do not define well or complete – thus yours DO STAND ALONE.
They are a plea – you ask me ignore some feature – a core feature – which cannot support. You are annoyed when I do not.
There are many things in this Universe that are black and white, and I have no doubts in those realms.
Went up, right?
Didn’t “predict it” – it was a “possibility”.
I hope you know the difference, right?
..and not. And may, and maybe not.
Possibility.
Hint:
Duck often.
Care to enlighten us with your wisdom by answering your own questions which are leading in a particular direction. Just cut to the chase.
reply to Todd
People like Todd fascinate me.
Confronted with argument, evidence, and reason – they “turtle” into emotionalism, and proclaim their opponent is acting in the same manner they are!
Of course, such a claim is just more evidence of their emotional state of mind
Knowing Todd holds arithmetic to be an emotional argument, I know this post will be pointless to him.
“Doom and Gloom” Prediction.
Let’s do some simple math.
The deficit is $1.5 trillion and is so large most people cannot comprehend it.
Why? Because the people understand a trivial expenditure. They know what constitutes waste. They fight over what they know. But a millions, billions – trillions of dollars is beyond their experience. It’s just a number.
So, dedicated to Todd, let’s put $1.5 trillion in perspective.
There are 300 million Americans of all ages. Divide $1.5 trillion by 300 million.
$5,000 … per each and every person. In the average family of 4, whose median income is $50,000 – that is $20,000 – or 40% of their entire gross income
… and higher for more than half of Americans – (because we used the MEDIAN average) – it represents even a higher and more significant amount of their income
And – this is expected to happen every year – year after year – for the foreseable future.
But wait!
This does not count Medicare or Social Security, which are off-budget!
Congress never funds these programs. The programs are like a mortgage that a debtor does not pay on — not interest, not principal The unpaid debt is tacked onto principal.
The programs are forever, but the accountants use 75 years as the amortization date, although the debt is never amortized.
Divide 100% by 75 years. That gives us 1.33% owed each year in principal repayment.
Then there is interest. Let’s say 5%.
Total payment owed: 6.3%.
The debt today is about $75 trillion.
So, Congress should set aside $75 trillion times .063.
That is approximately $4.7 trillion.
For 300 million Americans, that is close to $15,000 additional debt per American every baby, child, man and woman – this year.
This unpaid $4.7 trillion gets tacked onto the principal owed, so next year it will be about $80 trillion. And so it goes, ever higher each year.
In round numbers, the on-budget debt plus the off-budget debt is costing every member of your family an extra $20,000 this year!
Family of 4, that’s $80,000.
But wait! The median earning is… $50,000
Few Americans understand this. Most are like Todd – fingers in their ears “lalalalalala”, complaining such math is “Doom and Gloom”, and an emotional argument.
So the question for the rest of us is, how can the average American feed, house, and cloth themselves (and everything else) when the government is spending on average $30,000 MORE than the family income on itself.
How is the American family going to pay it off?
Answer, Todd? No? Ok, I’ll help.
They can’t
There is going to be a default.
This means that the people with assets will not pay the people without assets.
At some point, they will stage a tax revolt.
Or
the FED will inflate away the debt.
So, we will have a riot in the streets
OR
we will have hyper-inflation and riots in the street.
Doom and Gloom.
I agree with everything you say in this post BF , I believe that so much of whats wrong was and is caused by the government but we are where we are-I simply cannot dismiss the reality of the other sides argument-We can’t just let people die in the streets-people who work and save shouldn’t lose everything they have worked for because a family member gets sick. I accept that charity can help with some of these problems but not all. So I find myself looking for a reasonable workable compromise between helping those who need it and not destroying the country and giving the power all to the government. I can’t find an answer starting from where we are. I listen to all the logic and agree but then there’s that emotional response if that’s what you want to call it-that makes me feel that if we just let this stuff continue we wouldn’t be a country worth living in and if we let the government continue the way they are going we aren’t going to be a free country. So label me stupid, label be conflicted but one can’t just dismiss all the arguments on the left as emotional crap.
Please just once, send me pics of all these people dying on the streets……..I hear it over and over and have never seen it.
Kathy, I know we take care of people if they get sick but we also talk about the government taxing us and spending our money on social programs as bad, but paying for people to go to the hospital is a social program should we quit paying for this, if taxation is just stealing.
Simple reality. No emotion involved.
Truth can be like a club into the skull.
But it might not be so bad, we may have time to adapt to 4th world status.
“onto” the skull.
I need an editor!. “Upon” the skull.
into, onto, upon – probably all three are correct!
Can you someone check something for me, please? I tried to go to an article at the SEIU site, but page can’t be found. I believe it was out there but has been removed. I tried to find the cached page: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seiu.org%2F2009%2F03%2Fseiu-coalition-partne..&btnG=Google+Search
Here’s the link as originally shown: http://www.seiu.org/2009/03/seiu-coalition-partne..
Can someone see if they can find the cached page, please? Google caches everything, right? Did I do the search correctly?
http://www.seiu.org/2009/03/seiu-coalition-partners-launch-retirement-usa-initiative.php
Thanks…
NHS – It’s What We Strive to Get To!
Hospital wards to shut in secret NHS cuts
The sick would be urged to stay at home and email doctors rather than visit surgeries, while procedures such as hip replacements could be scrapped.
Read more at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7529454/Hospital-wards-to-shut-in-secret-NHS-cuts.html
Judy,
Were you in Searchlight today? Give us your report on this racist, angry, violent group.
Hey
No, I wasn’t there, but I was just reading about it from an Email I got, I will post it up here, and let all read it.
Here is the what I got in my Email box about the tea part in Searchlight and what was said about it
Palin, Tea Party Activists Target Reid
Saturday, 27 Mar 2010 07:57 AM
Article Font Size
Sarah Palin told thousands of tea party activists assembled in the Nevada desert Saturday that Sen. Harry Reid will have to explain his votes when he comes back to his hometown to campaign.
The wind whipped U.S. flags behind the former Alaska governor as she stood on a makeshift stage, holding a microphone and her notes as she spoke to the cheering crowd. She told them Reid, fighting for re-election, is “gambling away our future.”
“Someone needs to tell him, this is not a crapshoot,” Palin said.
About 7,000 people streamed into tiny Searchlight, a former mining town 60 miles south of Las Vegas, bringing American flags, “Don’t Tread on Me” signs and outspoken anger toward Reid, President Barack Obama and the healthcare overhaul.
Palin told them the big-government, big-debt spending spree of the Senate majority leader, Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is over.
“You’re fired!” Palin said.
A string of polls has shown Reid is vulnerable in politically moderate Nevada after pushing Obama’s agenda in Congress. His standing has also been hurt by Nevada’s double-digit unemployment and record foreclosure and bankruptcy rates.
Traffic on a highway leading into the town was backed up more than 2 miles Saturday afternoon as people gathered for the rally, which kicks off a 42-city bus tour that ends in Washington on April 15, tax day.
Cars and RVs filled the dusty area where the rally was held, as people set up lawn chairs and braced against the stiff wind whipping up dust clouds and blowing dozens of flags straight out.
The rally that’s been called a conservative Woodstock takes place just days after the historic healthcare vote that ushered in near-universal medical coverage and divided Congress and the nation. The vote was followed by reports of threats and vandalism aimed at some Washington lawmakers, mostly Democrats who supported the new law.
Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, appeared after spending Friday and Saturday morning campaigning for Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who led the 2008 ticket.
Now a Fox News analyst and potential 2012 presidential candidate, Palin faced criticism after posting a map on her Facebook page that had circles and cross hairs over 20 Democratic districts. She also sent a tweet saying, “Don’t Retreat, Instead – RELOAD!”
She said Saturday she wasn’t inciting violence, just trying to inspire people to get involved.
“We’re not going to sit down and shut up. Thank you for standing up,” Palin said.
Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department sent dozens of uniformed and plainclothes officers to patrol the crowd. Officer Jay Rivera said there was a report of a fistfight in the morning, but when police responded, they found nothing. He said there had been no arrests.
“So far it’s nice and peaceful,” Rivera said.
The tea party movement is a far-flung coalition of conservative groups angered by Washington spending, rising taxes and the growth and reach of government. It takes its name from the Boston Tea Party in 1773, when colonists dumped tea off English ships to protest what they considered unfair taxation by the British crown.
Leonard Grimes, a 70-year-old retired logger, said the nation is drifting toward socialism, and he’s not convinced Obama is eligible to be president.
“I’d like him to prove he’s an American citizen,” said Grimes, a registered independent who is originally from Michigan but now lives in Golden Valley, Ariz.
He called the healthcare bill “a joke, just another way to enslave the American public.”
Ketha Verzani, 60, said she came to the rally from her home in Las Vegas “to stand with those who want to clean house.”
The Republican opposes the health care bill and worries Americans are losing their rights, including parental rights and gun rights.
“It seems like every day more and more of our rights are being taken away,” Verzani said, sporting a Palin 2012 button to show support for the former Alaska governor who “doesn’t beat around the bush.”
Reid supporters set up a hospitality tent Saturday in the parking lot of a Searchlight casino, about a mile from the tea party rally. The Senate leader planned to spend part of the day at a new shooting range in Las Vegas with National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre.
Luis Salvador, 55, an unemployed fire sprinkler fitter, drove down from Las Vegas to support Reid, who he said has done a lot for the state and doesn’t deserve the protest brought to his hometown.
“You don’t come to a man’s house and start creating a ruckus,” said Salvador, a registered independent. He and several others taped signs saying “Nevada Needs Harry Reid” to the side of a truck near the highway that runs through town.
Another Reid supporter, Judy Hill, 62, said she doesn’t understand the hatred of Reid. The longtime Democrat from Searchlight, a town of about 1,000, said she thinks people just don’t know the man she calls a friend.
“They listen to the rhetoric. I think he’s very misunderstood and under-appreciated,” she said.
WOW!
The postings today were strong to say the least. I apologize for not posting sooner, I had to put up a hundred feet of fence, amungst other things. Tomorrow will be the tilling of the garden, when it’s 30 degrees out LOL.
Todd, I will agree that we all use emotions in our postings in some form or another. Oddly, the two scenarios that I used, Pre-existing conditions (in the article) and Ms. Canfield’s illness, which I have shown to both be inaccurate, but you have not challenged either.
I did not write this article as a partisan, left vs. right issue, but rather a real issue that maybe we can all understand together, and overcome the divide that infests this nation.
I’m at least trying to bring Americans “back” together, rather than divided by different views, that, maybe, all of are views are based on lies, perpatrated by those who just want power. Todd, Buck, Matt, Ray, anybody for that matter, whats wrong with finding the truth in life, what’s wrong with realizing that we are divided in many ways because of the manipulation that we have experienced all our lives!
At some point, we all have to work together for our individual success, and maybe our survival as Americans.
Can’t we all just get along and work towards Freedom? We’ve lost far to much of that in the last few decades. It’s time to take it back! 👿
G!
G-Man,
Ok, you’re trying to bring people back together. I agree that’s a good goal. But you very often vilify those that disagree with you. That’s not really the way to bring people back together.
There’s nothing wrong with finding truth in life. I think we all seek that in our own ways. And we’ve all been lied to and manipulated to some degree.
I agree.
And I agree with this too, but it does depend on how you’re going to work towards Freedom and how you’re going to take it back.
Can you explain those two a little more?
Todd,
I would say that vilification of another would fall into the dreaded emotional appeal mess, or it could be that few people, when confronted with a truth that is against their beliefs on a subject, fail to ignore the truth, only to skip along in life while allowing the theft of their rights and money to continue on.
“And I agree with this too, but it does depend on how you’re going to work towards Freedom and how you’re going to take it back.”
Great question, I’d like to start with finding the truth in what our politicians are telling us. As I wrote above, if what is said meets some criteria, then dig deeper, find the “truth”, make it known, and call them on it. If they are proven to not be telling the truth, hold them accountable in the court of public opinion. If they are called out often enough, the humiliation may cause a change in their ways. It also removes the “fear factor” the govt. seems to hold over a majority of the people. Like the schoolyard bully, once the fear is no longer, the power to influence is also no longer.
As far as taking Freedom back, I think it’s too late. The curruption is to great for the citizens to overcome. They will ultimately destroy themselves and take millions with them. Those of us who can remain standing, when they are at their weakest point, should be ready to retake the reigns and put them out of business for good. I say this, because they are losing their “fear factor” and will have to act to stay in business. Their actions will not be kind, but it will be short lived.
I also think that it would be silly of me to think that I can change the devisiveness in our society, it’s far to embedded. But I can find the truth, and make it well known, to which more and more people will lose that fear and call the liers out. As I do that, I will prepare for what may be very bad days ahead.
Peace!
G!
Well G-Man,
Its already begining. Looks like Dear Reader’s forces aren’t about to let the people get the upper hand. Just imagine what they’ll do when czar John Holdren gets his UAVs in the National Air Space. Very bad days ahead indeed….
http://detnews.com/article/20100328/METRO/3280313/Seven-arrested-in-FBI-raids-linked-to-Christian-militia-group=
Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group
Jennifer Chambers / The Detroit News
At least seven people, including some from Michigan, have been arrested in raids by a FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana as part of an investigation into an Adrian-based Christian militia group, a person familiar with the matter said.
The suspects are expected to make an initial appearance in U.S. District Court in Detroit on Monday.
On Sunday, the FBI confirmed that federal law enforcement agents were conducting activities in Washtenaw and Lenawee counties over the weekend in connection to Hutaree, a Christian militia group. FBI Special Agent Sandra Berchtold told The Detroit News the federal warrants in the case are under court seal and declined further comment.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100328/METRO/3280313/Seven-arrested-in-FBI-raids-linked-to-Christian-militia-group=#ixzz0jaZ3p8mq
ADRIAN, Mich. (WXYZ) – The FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force are all involved in raids around Adrian that may be connected to a militia group.
The FBI conducted multiple raids throughout Saturday and into Sunday, with one of them centered on a property where known members of a militia live. The land is owned by a man who lives in a house on the property. His sons live in two mobile homes that are also on the property
http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/Massive-Federal-Raid-in-Lenawee-County/eE6ZljBWa0uFOMUdtOLzvw.cspx?p=Comments
Mornin everyone,
Just a comment but at least its good news. I’m sure HuffPo would show differeent but FoxNews.com has a poll out today: Do you support term limits? Out of 3600 votes so far it’s 94% in favor. YAY.
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE NEEDED:
I am in my apartment with a new ISP. I use Microsoft Outlook for my e-mail. I had Charter as my ISP at home. I can receive e-mail but cannot send e-mail. The following message appears:
The Server responded: 57imp10smtp.charter.netotgumjeiljmltc5. You must connect from Charter IP space E1110.
I currently do not know who my ISP is. Will I have to change my e-mail address or is there a way that I can fix this problem.
Birdman,
Most ISP do not allow a SENDER to be on a different network.
This prevents SPAM – they have to “know” you by your IP before they accept email. But receiving should (and seems to be) no problem from them.
I do not know how long your previous ISP will honor your email address for you, so you may have to change it (Painful).
You will need to find a forwarder though to send email. You will have to figure out who your provider’s SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol) provider is.
The best way for the future:
-Get a “domain name” that you own, like “BirdmanNest.com” or something. Then you own it. You will need to pay for a hosting service, but at least your mail and ‘net ID will follow you.
-Other than that, if you are doomed to change your email anyway , get a hotmail or gmail is a good option. They will never go away (the Universe will end as we know it, if they do 🙂 )
The Tea Party is grass roots. There is no center of control that is creating the message. It is a message that resonates from the grassroots themselves.
It is a movement outside the Beltway. Thus, no one in Washington cares – Dems or Reps.
http://media.bloomberg.com/bb/avfile/ruaKeIMmBiV4
Bloomberg has conducted a scientifically valid poll of over 1,000 people. The results are unbelievable.
Over a quarter of Americans now identify with the Tea Party movement.
This movement did not exist as recently as December 2008.
This has come out of nowhere, The Web, the 2008 Bush bailouts, and Obama’s health care bill have created a major political voting bloc.
Look at the opinion on whether the USA is moving toward socialism. A staggering 58% say it is.
Public opinion normally changes slowly. This change represents a major shift in public opinion. It has taken place in less than 18 months.
The politicians are ignoring this.
The Tea Party people are focused on money: the deficit, the bailouts, health care, and taxes. They are hawks on spending.
But there is a lack of fear by incumbents and will keep them as big spenders. It always has. It always will.
The Tea Party, with no party to turn to, will express their energy somehow, somewhere.
Expect the USA to fragment politically and geographically.
Are you talking East and West USA ala Germany, or North and South USA..back to the old days?
It probably will come to that. The country is pretty well split right down the middle. On every issue. So I wouldn’t be surprised if we do split geographically. At this point it actually sounds like a good idea.
Earth Hour a complete flop!
Todd,
What right do you have to infer my consent?
You may have consented – and I have no argument with that.
But that does not create my consent. I have not.
That is not true.
There are many societies that have no tax.
It is fundamental to a government, however, to tax. As it cannot serve the people, it must expropriate its funds.
My birth does not compel me to you, nor words you (or others) write on pieces of paper.
My birth gives me the right to be free from you and your imposition.
My birth does not grant you the right to impose upon me.
It is you who is in the wrong and should leave.
Why am I compelled to follow words on paper other write?
Why should I cowardly use others to steal for me?
In fact, it is the only society worth living in is one that chooses – individually which laws to follow
All human action is ultimately individual.
If a man subjugates his intelligence, morals, and beliefs – and therefore the justification for his actions – to someone else and then he acts in evil –he is still evil.
Gee, how about offering the service on voluntary trade basis?
I guess that concept is new to you – I just wonder how you thought you got your food and fuel!
Black Flag,
Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the Pirate Ship? I’m just not feeling that “Pirate Love” today…
I’ve often thought, I wouldn’t want to be your neighbor, especially in your nirvana world of no government. It all starts out just great, but at some point conflicts develop. With your attitude, the only resolution is one that satisfies you 100%. When a resolution does not satisfy you 100%, you will use the measure of violence you feel is appropriate to satisfy your requirements.
When necessary, you will ridicule those that disagree with you to achieve your results, as you so often do here.
And anyone that continues to disagree with you will simply be banished for such activity:
You have shown your true colors, and it’s a new “ism” you can add to the list – Totalitarianism. Because that’s what “Black Flag-Land” will become – your own little fiefdom with you ruling over all your serfs.
You have shown time and time again your distain and lack of patience for those that disagree with you. It will only be worse in your nirvana world of no government.
This may be your vision of freedom, but it’s not mine.
Don’t confuse that “poke” with some affection between the sheets.
It’s a saber 😉
That’s ok. The feeling is mutual.
I’d have a hard time not decapitating you – one who believes that HIS signature compels ME to HIS agreements!
The nature of the Universe.
When there exists more than one right answer to a problem but you only need one right answer to solve it – you’re doomed to have some sort of conflict.
The secret – it doesn’t matter which right answer – as long as no one gets hurt finding it
Yep, you’re right.
Between the poles of you imposing on me, or not – exists “zero space”.
The moment you think you can make a space, you’re wrong.
And when you’re wrong in my books, the debate is over.
I do not suffer fools, nor those that live in contradiction.
You want me to pat the idiot, the ignorant, the liars, and the confounded with “its ok, your point of view is valid and true”.
Nope, not this in this universe!
I haven’t banished anyone. Not in my power.
The sign of a confused mind.
When a man refuse imposition, the confused believes that situation must be because he actually imposes!
Only in the muddled mind can carry the belief that when a man resists those that impose upon him, he really opposes freedom!
For if he refuses the imposition, he must forgo evil its existence – and therefore impose good upon evil!
But your argument (if this is your argument) collapses on definition, sir.
I disdain irrational-ism.
I disdain ill-logic.
I disdain those that use emotionalism as a argument against reason.
Your vision of freedom is other men compelled to giving you your needs and wants.
We call those men “slaves”.
And you’re right – that is not my vision of freedom.
Good job BF. I’d be your neighbor any day. You took it easy on him this time.
Todd, I’m not going to go back & forth with you on this but maybe it’s you. I’m about the dumbest stump of the bunch here at SUFA and Flag has given me all the patience in the world. As he does to most everyone here including you, yet you continue to take your jabs at him until he blows his stack and then you whine about it. What gives? He has given Buck and Matt all kinds of hell but you don’t see them whining. You come in swinging every time and expect people to just take it. What is your point? How about writing a guest commentary on your views and let everyone take some jabs at your world. That might be something constructive for you to consider. In the meantime your attitude is ridiculous and leads nowhere. But you want everyone to play nice. GEEZ!
Anita,
I will try to do better in the future…
I’d live in Black Flag Land over Todd Land anytime!
Just think of the entertainment value of Cyndi and Anita in one location. Could be good! 😆
I don’t know if I would want BF’s land or Todd’s land. Both are a little outside of what I am looking for.
What I would drop everything and move to right now is Galt’s Gulch. That is a land that I can aspire to. I certainly think BF’s land would be far closer to such though, and so I would probably opt for that over where we are now.
We can call it Black Flag’s Gulch!
😉
Black Flag,
You accuse me of imposing on your rights, but I have done no such thing. You then use this accusation to suggest that I should leave.
Why should I leave? I like it here. You are the one who is dissatisfied, but your solution is for me to leave. How do you justify your right to this land over mine?
Your continued attitude of “not suffering fools”, seeing “only black & white”, ridiculing those that disagree with you, and veiled threats of violence reinforce my feelings of what life would be like in your world.
On an interesting side note – we’ve had power outages the last two nights – almost feels like your doom and gloom is coming true!! 😉
Todd said
To the extent that you extol, support, reinforce and pay for others who impose upon me – you are equal in imposing on me.
Those that support evil are as guilty as those that act in evil.
Stay in peace – leave me alone – leave others alone.
These things you cannot do. Thus, you must leave.
As like it was with Cassandra, there is no joy is being proven right those circumstances with portend doom.
Black Flag,
You have no evidence to back up your accusations.
What you describe is “guilt by association”.
Expressing my ideas makes me guilty and gets me kicked out.
And you are the Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
Please show me when and how I have harmed you?
I have always lived in peace.
You sound like every other dictator: “I know best, and I will decide what is right.”
I’m still not feeling the Freedom…
Todd,
Do you or do you not advocate for taxation?
Yes, I do.
Todd,
So you advocate a group of people taking what is not theirs so to satisfy other people’s desires.
I advocate for an organized society that elects a government to represent them. That will mostly include taxes to fund the government.
Todd,
But they do not represent me.
I do not support government.
But you still support government taking my money by force.
If the people and their government decide to collect taxes, then yes.
Todd,
So you support, fund and defend those who take from me what is not theirs.
Since I am a non-violent man, you support the use of violence on non-violent men.
You support, fund, defend and praise evil.
Yes.
Yes
Todd,
Thus, by supporting, funding, defending evil acts on me, you are culpable for those actions.
Therefore,the answer to your question, Please show me when and how I have harmed you?
QED
You haven’t.
Have so.
If you do not think so, where do you place your contrary argument?
I don’t understand?
What do you not understand?
Your last comment
If you think my argument does not follow to QED in answering your question, point to where you see it fall and explain your reasons.
I don’t think you’ve harmed me.
I don’t understand you comments after this. Could you explain them?
I don’t think you’ve harmed me.
…does not exist in any of my comments above.
Dec 15 2006
Microwave Sickness / Deadly Electronic Weapons / Canada
Hello
When I worked in the diesel generator business,
I worked with a lot of communications companies all across Canada.
Bell Canada was a big one I did a lot of work with.
They have “standby diesel generators” at their central offices and all their repeater stations.
A lot of “national security” concerns within these systems.
I worked on a fairly large “fibre optics” project in 1996 into 1997 when I was poisoned for the first time in 1997
People within these systems have more than enough resources to make you “sick” if you ……”step on the wrong toes.”
Lots of surlpus “microwave generators.” and “radio equipment.”
All with “no forensic evidence.”
It just takes one “idiot” to put something together who does not like you.
There may be a union / non union theme to my problems.
I worked at a non union company, Harper Detroit Diesel.
I had no idea about “radio waves as weapons” until 2005,
……8 years after I initially got sick
I started my research project in January 2004 on the internet with the keywords “constructive dismissal”
in relation to my own problems at Harper Detroit Diesel.
I am not sure about ……”microwave mind control”,
seems to be a lot of articles on the internet about this topic.
It does look like more and more people world wide are looking at
……”radio waves as weapons”.
I think maybe thats because there is now so much “radio equipment”around the world with the advancements in “communications.”
The problems with all these types of systems is the technology falls into the wrong hands.
Some real horror stories from people worldwide about this topic on the internet.
What an eye opener !
Gerry Duffett
3358-A McCowan Rd
Basement
Scarborough Ontario
Canada M1V 5P5
duffett52@yahoo.com,
gerryduffett@fastmail.ca,
http://gerryduffett.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general
Medical Condition / Documentation / Toronto / Canada
May 14 2009
I have not worked in 31 months.
since being poisoned for the “fourth time”
……since 1997
while having breakfast at the Husky restaraunt in Mississauga 31 months ago.
I have been to the doctor and hospital about 40 times in the last 31 months.
These are “key phrases” taken from “medical reports” that I have received from the 6 “specialist” that I have been to see
Gerry Duffett
1. Cardiovascular Disease
2. Hyperlipidemia
3. Hypertension
4. Hypercholesterolemia
5. Liver Failure
6. High Blood Pressure
7. CAT / MRI Scans / Brain Stroke Injuries
8. Aorto-Bifemoral Bypass
9. Aorto-Illiac Occlusive
10. Mild Concentric Left Ventricular Hypertrophy
11. Claudication
12. Left-Occipital Area / Stroke
13. Right- Cerebrum / Stroke
14. Occlusion Of The Distal Aorta
15. Stenosis In Right Common Illiac
16. Femoral Pulses Absent
17. No Pulses Lower Extermity Distally
18. Elevation Pallor To Both Feet
19. Feet Warm Without Ischaemic Signs
20. Aortoiliac Occlusive Artrerial Disease
21. EF Globally Depressed
22. Possible Non Ischaemic Cardiomyopathy
23. Require Major Aortofemoral Bypass
24. Possible Stenosis Right Common Illiac Artery
25. Large Cystic Lesion
26. Volume Loss Left Cerebellar Hemisphere
27. Abnormal Signal Right Petrous Apex
28. Vertebral Arteries Torturous Quite Small
29. Cartoid Arteries Slightly Torturous Ectatic
30. Distortion Left Middle Cranial Artery
31. Subtle Flatening Right Nasolabial Fold
32. Cranial Fossa Cyst
33. Small Inferior Cerebellar Infaract
34. Painful Numbness Right Foot And Toes
35. Extreme Fatigue
36. Periodic Total Loss Of Feeling Left Leg Waist Down
37. Periodic Total Loss Of Feeling Right Leg Waist Down
38. Difficulties Walking
Note : Major Aortofemoral Bypass ……is the 6 hour surgery
Gerry Duffett
3358-A McCowan Rd
Basement
Scarborough Ontario
Canada M1V 5P5
duffett52@yahoo.com,
gerryduffett@fastmail.ca,
http://gerryduffett.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=general
I (Todd) don’t think you (Black Flag) have harmed me.
I don’t understand your comments after this. Could you explain them?
Am I missing something here?
Todd,
Your original question was;
“Please show me (Todd) when and how I (Todd) have harmed you (BF)
Ok – I thought you were asking me that question…
That explains your reaction to “You haven’t.”!! 😉
By your argument, all of society is then guilty. And almost everyone on this blog.
I have simply expressed by beliefs by voting. But because you disagree with my opinion, you feel I must leave?
Which leads me back to this question:
How do you justify your right to this land over mine?
I’m done for tonight. I’ll check back tomorrow.
Todd
Perhaps, but not those:
– that do not know what they are doing.
– are forced to do what they are doing.
Only those that support the action are guilty.
Numbers do not improve evil into righteous.
And, as above – to your agreement – that you, quote, support, fund, defend and praise the action.
Because, by your agreement, you are doing evil upon me, you must leave me.
If you refuse, you will be banished.
No, those were your arguments and definitions. I simply went along to get to the end-game.
And we’re back where we started:
* You are the Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
* You sound like every other dictator: “I know best, and I will decide what is right.”
Our society existed long before you or I were here. But you feel some divine right to tell everyone what is right and wrong and re-order society to your liking. Anyone who disagrees with you either has to leave or is banished.
How is this freedom? This sounds like every dictator in history…
Todd,
This is where you fail.
You believe a man -defending himself from your attack- is judge and jury.
No, he is defending his own peace.
You are sitting on the sidelines, giving money to evil, supporting evil, encouraging it, and receiving its profit.
You are a Clear and Present Danger
I know right from wrong – there is no question here.
(1) A man who attacks a non-violent man is evil.
(2) A man who pays another man to attack a non-violent man is equally evil.
You are #2.
You receive the same treatment as man #1.
If you do not want this treatment, then leave non-violent men alone.
I advocate a reordering of society by removing violence – it is the injection of violence that causes the disturbances and conflicts, not is lack!!
Black Flag,
You are doing what every “bad” person from human history has done:
1. Defining some new standard of “acceptable” behavior
2. Rallying those that agree with you to the “enlightenment” of your cause
3. Declaring those who do not adhere to your new standard as bad/evil
4. Ridiculing, threatening, and banishing those that do not agree with you
5. There’s only one more step…
Do you think your reordering of society will come about peacefully?
Or, since I am evil, that justifies you using violence against me to achieve your reordering of society?
How many people will die during your reordering of society?
Not your problem, right – because they were evil.
Could you explain how this is different than the “New World Order”, or the “One World Government”, or the “Top Eco-Fascist Calls For End Of Freedom To Fight “Global Warming”?
You said “Environmentalist = Global Tyranny and Mass Genocide”
I’d say Black Flag = Global Tyranny and Mass Genocide
Cause it sounds to me like you want to do the same thing – but of course your reordering of society is just, and fair, and right…cause you said so…
This is exactly why we need governments – to stop people like you who think they are so righteous that they can reordering of society to their liking…
Wow – this is getting scary…